Posted by: Helen Philpot | October 30, 2009

I sure could use a little good news… tomorrow

Well Margaret.  Harold is doing well.   We have a long way to go, but the doctors say it is going the way they had hoped.  I read in the newspaper today that the House of Representatives has finally put forth a bill on healthcare reform that might go to vote next week.   Evidently there is still much work to be done to reconcile differences between this version and the one the Senate is working on, but it seems to be another milestone in what has otherwise been miles of stones.  I find it odd that we expected instant gratification on something this important.  Of course it was going to take more than a few months to work on.  Thank you for reminding me to read the paper and get off the 24-hour boob- tube news channels.  The paper is just so much more civilized – and you are right – I was getting a bit bitchy in my old age. 

The guy in the other bed has the blasted TV blaring at all hours and on more than one occasion it has been tuned to Fox News.  If this keeps up, they might have to admit me to this damned place.  Even when he does have my cutie patootie Anderson Cooper on, I still can’t calm down.  They make a mountain out of a mole hill or  most recently a hot air balloon into a death trap without giving a moment’s thought.  At least the  newspaper has 24 hours to digest and then report  the news.  Those TV people just get diarrhea of the mouth and then the shit gets everywhere.  News as it is happening is not news.  It’s an observation without much thought.

Here are my thoughts – for what they are worth:

  • Even if he got it for remembering to leave the seat down for Michelle and the girls,  Barack Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize is a good thing.   Don’t we want the United States to be seen as an instrument of peace in the world?  Erick Erickson probably had trouble spelling his own name in grade school and Michael Steele is clueless as to the irony of his job title.
  • The little boy didn’t get into the balloon.  End of story.  To report anything more is helping a means to an end that leads to a reality show none of us needs to see.
  • Sarah Palin wrote a book.  It was co-authored by a million monkeys on a million typewriters.
  • Is Jay Leno at 10PM really all that different from Jay Leno at 11PM?  What network executive came up with that stroke of genius?
  • The Boston Tea Party was a key event in the growth of the American Revolution. The British Parliament responded in 1774 with the Coercive Acts and the Colonists in turn responded to the Coercive Acts by convening the First Continental Congress.  The crisis escalated, and the American Revolutionary War began near Boston in 1775.   The 9-12 Project, by comparison,  was proof positive that people who watch Glen Beck can’t spell.
  • The only person I like less than Rick Perry is Dick Cheney.   What a shame Kay Bailey Hutchison has lost her sense of smell because that is one big pile of shit she just stepped into.
  •  Palin having an opinion about  Levi Johnson “selling his body”  is like Roman Polanski having an opinion about Woody Allen’s choice in girlfriends.  Pot meet Kettle. 
  • John and Kate minus eight equals one jackass and the woman who deserves him.
  • Give Rush Limbaugh a football team.  Who better than he understands the effects of massive head injuries?

I get that these news channels have to fill up 24 hours worth of programming.   But what exactly would be wrong with filling up today’s 24 hours with thoughtful reporting on what happened during yesterday’s 24 hours?  Anything else really is just opinions disguised as news. 

Thanks for stopping by everyone.   Hug your loved ones every chance you get. I mean it.  Really.


  1. obviously like your website but you need to check the spelling on several of your posts.
    Several of them are rife with spelling problems
    and I to find it very bothersome to tell the reality nevertheless I will certainly
    come back again.


  2. I rarely drop comments, but i did a few searching and wound
    up here I sure could use a little good news tomorrow | Margaret
    and Helen. And I do have a couple of questions for you if it’s allright.
    Is it only me or does it look as if like some of these
    comments look as if they are coming from brain dead folks?
    😛 And, if you are posting on additional places, I would like to follow
    anything fresh you have to post. Would you make a list
    of the complete urls of your public pages like your twitter feed, Facebook page or
    linkedin profile?


  3. электрошокер


  4. James, you didn’t have to settle for day old donuts, when there was fresh pie on the porch. Then again, maybe they do go down better with that reheated cup of Joe and that old newspaper you found under the seat. That’s okay, though. We still have a spot reserved for you at the big folks table if you get an inkling. Oh, btw, we are now into cabernet and merlot. That sugared koolaid kept us up at night and kept making our tongues purple.


  5. James just has a problem with a Black man becoming President before him, as if he could ever be President.


  6. and don’t you love the attempted perpetuation of the “death panel” canard? Which has been thoroughly debunked as an utter falsehood.


  7. “I can’t save us from driving off the cliff, but I can express my contempt for those who take us there.” James still has illusions of grandeur. Don’t worry James the American people and their elected government are working diligently on solving problems you don’t even begin to understand.


  8. Oh, for crying out loud James-
    Sneaking in a back door and leaving sour grapes all over…
    While the largest definition of tolerance is about being open to the Other, another definition has to doing with enduring, endurance…
    Your behavior is intolerable… not to be endured.
    Whatever your ideas may be doesn’t much matter as they get lost in intolerable name calling, ad hominem attacks, and irrelevant appeals to authority.
    Run right out there and support SP- when she throws YOU under the bus , like she does almost everyone sooner or later- remember you had ample warning…


  9. You are so right, JuneauJoe. And how festive for someone to accuse others of “ad hominem attacks” while calling them “koolaid drinking fools” and “express[ing] contempt” for them.

    Simple answer to your question of “Who’s stupid now?” You are. Have been. Will be. Sad that you continue to rationalize discredited and false positions but you doubtless will.


  10. The degrading effects of terrorism fears.


  11. Who’s stupid now, Donna? My predictions are coming true, and now we have Iran giving the US ultimatums.

    The Democrats had to sneak in the current version of the health care insurance bill during the dark of night, and even then, it was a close call in spite of their legislative majorities.

    Another bomber nearly took down an air liner, and our fearless leader’s clueless flack told us the system worked.

    Polls show the luster wearing thin as people look for results, not pretty words. Polls also show the much derided Tea Party movement to be more popular than either party.

    Many here, but not all are like you Donna. You are kool- aid drinking fools. I was nice to you, and expected an honest exchange of ideas, but it didn’t work out so well in the long run. You resort to personal attacks on anyone to your right.

    Poolman, I do not have a thing for Sarah Palin. Some of you wrote she was irrelevant, and you were wrong. I wouldn’t vote for her, but after my time here, I support whatever she does to damage the Democratic agenda.

    And yes, she was right. The bill does have what in effect are “death panels” as some of you more halt and infirm folks will learn if the bill in its present form becomes law. I’ve read the bills.

    You would love for the opposition to keep our mouths shut and plod along trying to make your failures work out for the best. After a year of adhominan attacks we have finally wised up. As someone on another blog wrote to a left winger, “So, every time you guys stumble we will be there to kick you when you’re down.” You’re already down, but you haven’t reached bottom yet.

    I can’t save us from driving off the cliff, but I can express my contempt for those who take us there.

    “Paybacks are a b..tch aren’t they?”



    Thought this one goes well with post. The commentary of Jon Stewart on CNN fact checking an SNL sketch. (Yes, they did.)


  13. Craig, you’ve been zinged by a troll. Don’t take it personally.


  14. What the hell…???????

    I’m gone for a couple days and I get slammed for what???

    “Alaskapi tells nothing but lies. I read what you wrote and both you and Craig is full of shit.”

    I know I’m full of shit every now and then but what the hey..for what now?

    By somebody called PITY TING..????


  15. Whirled Peas Δ,

    Those Christians aren’t the real thing, they’re American Fascists 😉


  16. Tine…you do know that they just posted a new one…right?? 🙂


  17. Well…what fun would that be? 😉


  18. OR…we could just read Margaret & Helen’s Blog Posts and move on….

    Just saying…


  19. If you don’t enter an email address, the quilt defaults to that light blue one that you see for Delurker and Sofia. If you enter an email, you get your own square.

    That said, I wonder how many combinations of colors and patterns there are before it starts repeating…


  20. May I suggest gravatars for all? That way we’ll always know whether it’s the real you posting or some impostor. You can use any image; it doesn’t have to be a pic of yourself.

    I’ve noticed that WordPress doesn’t necessarily give each person a unique quilt square. Delurker Girl and HRH Sofia EQ, for example, have the same square.


  21. Let Us Prey…

    …on the weak minded!

    Psalm 109:8
    “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.”
    Psalm 109:9
    “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”

    Rachel Maddow w/ Frank Schaeffer

    When you can’t think for yourself, let the bible-thumpers do it for you.

    Gotta love those Christianists ~ Δ


  22. From my morning read…
    Man, 96, holds pre-emptive wake


  23. Oh dear god looks like M&H was hit by a band of marauding toddlers!

    Now then. To counterbalance the Palin book, you have two truly wonderful options (I decided to go for broke and went with BOTH options)

    Going Rouge: Sarah Palin – An American Nightmare
    Essays on Palin contributed by Shannyn Moore, AKM of Mudflats, Naomi Klein, Geoffry Dunn and other intelligent, interesting, and HONEST writers. . .

    Going Rouge: The Sarah Palin Rogue Coloring and Activity Book
    Absolutely hysterical – I plan to get a few more for Christmas gifts. . .


  24. Fun? You’ve got a bigger problem than anyone here can or cares to deal with, seek some help for yourself.


  25. Well, that was an interesting evening of trolls. On another note you might want to read this article and listen to the story of one woman’s experience with federal health insurance.

    In 1995, the first year Republicans controlled the Congress after 40 years in the minority, the GOP banned abortion coverage in the Federal Employee Health Benefits plan, which provides insurance to some 9 million federal workers and their families.

    DJ Feldman, a 41 year old federal employee from around DC is going public with her story of insurance refusing to pay for the abortion of her fetus diagnosed with anencephaly. Listen to her story.


  26. I tink Pity Ting need a twaitjacket.


  27. Alaskapi tells nothing but lies. I read what you wrote and both you and Craig is full of shit.

    HRH sofia EQ you need to take a minute and think about what you are saying. That is just pure BS and you know it.

    If he really did do that it would have made the papers.

    Grandma Katie I have never in my life said that. How dare you suggest otherwise.

    Greytdog, Obama didn’t turn it over. He hid it from everyone and now you just don’t want to face the facts. You are full of it.

    Mrs. Santos are you for real? DeLurker Girl never said such a thing. Get a life.

    I think Helen could post more but then again maybe she has more important things to do. Unless you know something I don’t know.

    All a bunch of vampires as far as I am concerned…


  28. Wishful thinking on my part, folks.

    It was fun for a few hours anyway…


  29. Donna-
    I think it’s more a function of the cold fall air sending all the rodents looking for a cozy place to overwinter…
    Happened last November too…


  30. I’m down to one computer so all my posts will have my kids picture as an avatar….

    Enjoy your evening …



  31. is it my imagination or has the stupidity quotient gone up recently?


  32. Here’s why I think the human race just might survive. Of course, it might help if the dogs could work the controls. They seem mighty good at controlling.


  33. Don’t feed the Eskimos becuase they’ll follow you home. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Loved that one!!!!



  34. and Myrtle Beach watch your mouth…


  35. OceanGypsi, thanks for that link. Sounds like those folks in (was it? ) Fayettville. getting up to 2 autographed copies? I hope they don’t think they can get a great markup by selling those autographs. Don’t they remember how badly the ‘beanie babies’ turned out? I really hope they don’t think they can send their children to college on the profits from signed SP books.


  36. The real Susan in CT is not the one you see here on this thread…
    Susan in Ct has been here on and off for a long time… deep burgundy red quilt square…
    Snots, we have snots here… Can you catch snots in a rat trap…?


  37. I’m curious if the real Susan in CT had a piece of pie and what her quilt square looks like. I know she has commented before, and I don’t recall her saying anything wierd. It really looks like we are being played.


  38. By: Delurker Girl Δ, Yes, missing the secret code from the imposter’s name. Looked like a joke to me.
    So should we mistrust short posts with little content?

    We do seem to be providing much to much entertainment for an impoverished soul with too little imagination to survive in the world. I think we should create a reality for the poor thing.

    I’ll go first.

    Poor little rat person. left by Thetans on an extinct volcano with no one to love it. It was kind of ugly and had too many sharp teeth. It could only gnaw on old, moldy bones it found lying around the internet. It kept coming around to the elder wisdom blog, trying the same old joke over and over, thinking it might get a new and more sparkly response each time. Maybe it’s really a poor misunderstood golem and just needs a piece of pie. Maybe it thinks it is doing a little psychological research for a term paper. But then, maybe the elder wisdomers are doing a bit of research on the poor little golemy troll, also.


  39. for Greyt and all who are tired of hearing about the gone gov’s book today…
    Here are good sensible folks who have done something amazing and written a REAL book about it.
    Nice folks, good book

    (wonder if we’ll ever live down the SP thingy… )


  40. Who just used my name? You might be able to use Delurker name and mine, but not our quilt square.


  41. greytdog,

    I was really happy to read that the report of your death was greytly exaggerated.

    Glad to hear you got your flowers (NO WREATH. But great sense of humor there)

    And was it Colonel (and why is it prounounced “Kernel”?) with the rope? or whatever weapon? I hated that game. Also monopoly, too.

    Greytdog, welcome back. Even though you never left. Thank goodness.

    By the way, I think S’error (I’m stealing that from someone, but I just don’t know who) is running low on ethyl. She’s really ticking me off and I had to bite my tongue several times while talking to a friend (for over 30 years) last night while she (my friend) extolled S’error’s book-writing and governmentship-providing virtues. I got all choked up. And not in a good way.


  42. Grandisima Katie, thank you, I just might prefer to be Empress of the Universe rather than just plain ole Evil Queen. It implies a much larger base. But then I suppose I’d have to cook and clean and garden and advise a much larger bunch of lost boys.

    I’d like to talk to you sometime about writing children’s books. I’m thinking about writing a book for my granddaughter about her first Christmas and black walnuts I gathered to make cookies from her Mom’s Grandmother’s recipe and how the squirrels kept stealing the nuts. Believe me, it’s been a fight. Like I said back awhile ago, I get a little squirrely every fall.

    Oh noes, I just gooled how to spell squirrely and could hardly believe the number of hits I’m gonna have to read through. Who would have thought there were THAT many hits for squirrely?


  43. We know Delurker Girl Δ…
    Oldtimers… you think colorful is back?
    colorful just spouted keyboard barf…
    this is multiple folks or multiple computers with their lil wordpress quilt squares…
    Sounds to me like they have gotten into the holiday cider a bit early…


  44. I didn’t make that last comment that has my name on it.


  45. First Mike, then Lori, then Delurker Girl,…… I…. Can’t… take it anymore…. toooooo many chuckles here.


  46. What?? Greytdog….dead?????


  47. No. I think it was Mrs. Potter in the Library with the candlestick.


  48. Yes….I would too. I think maybe she is the troll that “killed” greytdog.

    Get her, Boys!!!!


  49. I’m intrigued by the fact that Susan in CT twice made comments about Greytdog’s premature demise, yet somehow she never read the any of the numerous comments to the contrary. I suppose there could be a good explanation, but I for one would like to hear it.


  50. Greytdog?
    I thought you were dead??


  51. If you are curious about Palin’s book but don’t want to spend the $$ to buy it or borrow it from the library, AKM over at is “live-blogging” the book chapter by chapter. This should also save Helen from having to read that piece of crap. Helen’s already done enough by reading Coulter – let’s not make her read Palin too! That’s just too much for anyone to have to bear. Personally anytime I hear Palin’s name mentioned on the news or a talk show, I turn off the TV. I figure I should be able to get my house completely cleaned, walk several miles a day, and finish my yard work over the next few months of Palin-mania.


  52. I am disgusted by the stupidity of the latest drive by trolling, but not necessarily surprised. If they were decent folk, they wouldn’t be trolls in the first place.

    That being said, I am so happy that greytdog is not only fine, but was able to enjoy a whole lot of nice things people said about her. That’s actually pretty special!


  53. LOL Delurker girl that made me chuckle!

    It is highly unlikely the outcome of the NY 23 race will change. A race won by that high of a margin rarely is deided by absentee ballots. Especially when the challenger was not a member of the two major parties. (Absentee ballots are “pushed” by the state’s 2 party chairmans… for the most part) Secondly just because 10,000 ballotrs were issued does not mean 10,000 were returned, normally in a non presidential year that number is 62-50 percent return. Lastly those ballots were issued when the republican candidate was still in the race and you would have to assume at least 20 percent are for her.. Bottom line I wouldn’t lose sleep over it.

    But as I always say as a disclaimer. The only thing for sure in politics is nothing is for sure.



    I am so excited!!! This is approximately 45 minutes from where I live. I have begun production of my “Palin, sit down & shut up!!!” poster. Be watching for me on the news that evening!!!

    Hi, everyone. I’ve missed being on Margaret & Helen’s porch with you all!!


  55. Hoffman wants to take a mulligan on his concession of NY23:

    I really hope this doesn’t go anywhere. If it does, then I want a do-over on Gore’s election.


  56. Mike on 11/17 at 1:03pm – that made me laugh out loud! Very clever! :0


  57. I meant bears….don’t feed the bears.


  58. Well, whatever you do DON”T feed the eskimos while you are there…they’ll follow you home!


  59. JuneauJoe–on a different topic, what would you suggest for two midwesterns who want to go to Alaska for the first time? We’ll have a week to 10 days and any suggestions would be appreciated. No big cruises. Good food. Lots of time outdoors but we’d like comfortable places to stay. thanks!


  60. Sorry to hear that Greytdog was put to sleep.


  61. Hoping Harold has improved. I have been up on the mountain – new, good snow.

    I am back to internet on occasion for awhile.

    Got to say: The Republicans sure are working hard to stop cold any change to health insurance or any other topic out there.

    The Republican notion of talk, talk, talk and then NO is very sad.

    Wishing all well.


  62. Helen, I hope Harold has been sprung from the hospital by now!


  63. And she’s happy rolling in the money.


  64. Good Morning everyone!

    no one’s puppet, that Palin animation was funny. She is sure getting the lion’s share of media attention. I would say she is the most popular person of the day. Her base doesn’t care that she is being exposed as a pathological liar, they just think everyone is picking on her and her family.


  65. HRHSophia sorry to disallusion you but if you ever find me i n arocking chair with a little white cappp, I might as well be in a coffin!
    I am having fun now. A number oof students from the local University have been visiting. They are taking a class in GErontology and must do some visiting and asking questions from a questionaire for a paper they have to write.
    Now how about changin the EQ to EU? MY daughter says that is what her family used to call her. Stands for Empress of the Universe!!
    And the billy cclub i dea sounds great!!


  66. What is a Greytdog???


  67. Gretydog, you are so patient. Is it because you’ve eluded death? 😀


  68. Just Palin finishing the job she started last year.

    Ann Telnaes Animations


  69. My immediate reaction to Palin’s appearance on Oprah was entirely neutral, but overnight negativity won out, can that woman go nowhere without her children? How unfair to them, they are going to miss a chunk of school again this year. It really bothers me that she exploits them.


  70. Craig, it’s “average” cost. Depends on where you live in the country & also where you have the mammogram done. In many instances, it also depends on whether or not you have insurance or are self-pay. For instance, a non-diagnostic or routine wellness mammogram in Central FL will cost about $150 for someone with insurance. Self-pay is about $300-500. IF you have any history of issues with your breasts, such a precancerous diagnosis, calcifications, etc. or need to have a mammogram for diagnostic purposes (ie post-op follow up especially following needle biopsies usually order for every 6 months for first 2 yrs following a positive result biopsy), then the procedure is coded differently, affecting costs. Such a diagnostic mammogram ranges from $300-400 for someone w/insurance whereas uninsured/self-pay costs are between $500-800 per mammogram. Depending on the clinic, the self-pay patient may be eligible for an “office” discount resulting in lowering that cost by about $50-100, which is helpful but still expensive, especially if needed every 6 months. For the uninsured who can’t self-pay, free clinics don’t do diagnostic mammograms.They may be able to find another clinic with lower fees but it’s always a gamble.

    Recently however several medical findings determined that annual mammograms were not
    necessarily a good thing. Here’s an article from one of the findings
    The New England Journal of Medicine also has several articles dealing with the efficacy of the annual mammogram for women under the age of 40 and the possible radiation harm these tests pose for women of child-bearing years.

    So this has nothing to do with the government trying to cut costs by denying healthcare to women. It’s been an issue of concern for some time now in medical circles and it seems to me that the new guidelines make sense. Especially since many women at 50 are entering into menopause or have been in perimenopause and many have been on some form of hormone therapy or birth control for some time. It would be at the older stages of life that bone density tests and mammograms would be more likely to accurately diagnose such conditions that older women often face.

    Alaskapi – I like the idea of rat traps but I think we might need some bear traps scattered around the perimeter of the porch


  71. Oh for crying out loud…

    Greyt- am glad you are fine.

    I agree with Grandma Katie some kind of scrubdown is needed…
    or some rat traps put out…


  72. By: no one’s puppetΔ on November 16, 2009
    at 6:55 PM

    Good point. I once wrote a letter to the local paper and the editor took the liberty of editing it. It was about 180 degrees from what I intended and after a series of 2am phone calls we had to change to an unlisted phone number. This was long before caller ID.
    It is not a good idea to reveal too much about yourself. Some kids on Facebook are learning this lesson the hard way. I think H&M learned this too and that’s why they now generalize their identities and locations.


  73. Lori, I hope it is no one we know, just a reader, and I guess I read and watch too much true crime, but I’ve always been glad Margaret and Helen cloak their true identity.


  74. The lead glove or the baseball bat makes me think of a college summer theater experience in LaCrosse, WI.

    We were housed in old rental houses (males in one, females in the other. That’s how long ago it was). It took us a very short time to find that the previous student renters had been very liberal at spreading the keys around. Quite unpleasant to wake up to a drunk in your bedroom doorway, asking “Uhh, hey…Carol?”

    I don’t know quite why, but the house came furnished with a small billy club with iron wrapped around the end. This was kept close at hand through the summer.

    We came home one night to all the doors wide open in the wind. Called the guys over, but they wouldn’t search the house for us. (Old, spooky house.) Called the police – they searched it for us alright. They made me go first, leading them through the house, billy club and all. Then they had the nerve to warn us about the illegality of that club.

    I’m just glad they didn’t confiscate it. Never ended up using it, but it sure was a comfort at the time.

    Let’s get another one and go find Betty.


  75. I agree NOP I doubt VERY much a teenager would wade through 600 boring political posts to find TWO posts that referred to GD’s illness. I have a teenager and I can tell you if they wanted to cause havoc online they wouldn’t choose two 80 YO ladies political blog to troll. Naw it’s someone that we “know”.


  76. First signs of government reduction in Health Care costs.
    Ms. Kouric and CBS this evening have announced that women really don’t have to have a mammogram until age 50..that is unless their has been some prior history.

    They did the numbers on the report..and to me..It looks as if this is one of the first ways government can reduce spending health care dollars.
    They say the average cost of a mammogram is $150.00.
    Personally I thought it would be more.
    The American Cancer Society does not agree
    with the governments findings.

    Is this or is this not one of the first signs of government trying to control health care by putting our their “supposed findings” that would reduce the numbers by thousands of women who would then not get a routine mammogram???


  77. I doubt that some strange teen took the time to read our posts, and I don’t think it is a coincidence they choose someone who had been ill, and someone who always lets us know her status. We have no idea who reads this blog, and I guess for that matter we don’t know those who respond to the posts as well as we think we do. I think it would be prudent for us to be careful what and how much personal information we supply.


  78. Raji, I know – which is why we put it on the patio. There’s a nice brick planter box that raised the plant about 24 inches above ground – and the plant vines upward. . . plus cats don’t go outside and the dogs don’t chew plants. . .they like to carry the limbs around that get knocked down by winds and hurricanes though. . . .

    Grandma Katie, add a pair of brass knuckles to that lead lined glove. . .altho that might make it too heavy for a satisfying bitch slap. Oh well.

    Have to take my required ambulation so take care everyone, have a great evening. . . don’t forget to watch The Daily Show tonight -it’s gonna be really good!


  79. Grandma Katie, I’m shocked, I say, just shocked. I pictured you rocking with antimacassars on the rocker arms, you with a starched white cap and your little feet on a little foot stool.

    But yes, if not a teen, at least a yung’n, maybe trying to see what would happen. those kids are just always testing, testing 1 2 3. And they do love to rattle cages. I think it’s because they haven’t figured out yet that they, too, are mortal so they can do what they want (parents should have given them more clues) without repercussions.

    Stopped for a piece of pizza today for lunch. Had to wait for the girl (22-23yrs) behind the counter to finish getting a subpoena from a process server. He was saying “just sign the thing and you can read it all” She was saying “what if I don’t want it” I didn’t wait to find out what the issue was but I guess she will learn SOMETHING from the process.


  80. Reat in peace, dear Greytdog…


  81. Greytdog, night-blooming jasmine is poisonous to horses and cats. Don’t know about dogs but be aware. You just did have to pick a poisonous plant didn’t you 🙂


  82. My idea of bitch slapping is a lead lined gloe or a baseball bat. My son’s opinion is that it was some teenager. He said it sonded like one who thinks they are funny.


  83. I’m not an Oprah fan, certainly not a Palin fan. And in view of my recent demise and subsequent resurrection, I decided to forego the “pleasure” of watching the la-la ladies have a nice fest. I’ll wait until Maddow interviews Palin 🙂 hehehe

    I went for the flowers – SO offered to get me a wreath! I said no to that – instead I ended up with a very pretty night-blooming jasmine to plant next to the patio. Judith – a new puppy? oy! I don’t think I could go through all that potty training again. . .


  84. Absolutely Raji, and I don’t think they are a stranger to this site either. I have been asking myself, what did they think they would gain? And how did it work out for them?


  85. I didn’t have a strong reaction to Sarah Palin during her Oprah appearance much to my surprise. Poor old Sarah, is boring, boring,….


  86. Did anyone catch the disasta’ from Alaska on Oprah today? I found it very helpful… I’m not sure I’ve ever pounded the treadmill so hard before!


  87. I think when you get three or more trolls in a row they are one and the same.


  88. This is starting to seem like an old movie “SHE’S ALIVE!!!!”


  89. Mrs. Santos,
    Do not believe it, Greytdog lives!


  90. So very sad about Miss Greytdog. I do not think she was very old. A great loss. She will be missed.


  91. Well I did not check this blog yesterday and look what happened! Greytdog, somehow, I did not believe the news for a minute. Just the skeptic in me. Glad to see you kicking though! Get the flowers!


  92. Buckwheat pancakes, yum………

    Dick Cheney will never be president, with his poll numbers, age and health. And he really does like to hide behind the scenery, chuckling evilly. The offspring might be another matter – she might make a try for it. Can’t imagine she’d get anywhere, but she needs to be kept an eye on.

    Greytdog, flowers wilt. Go for something more long-lasting – cashmere, a hot tub, a new puppy……


  93. I only get to pop in every now and again. I was shocked and saddened of Greytdog’s demise. I find her quite kind, witty, informed, thoughtful, etc. Quickly I scrolled thru comments to find out what happened. Whew, was I ever relieved to see her posting. What a cruel, unfunny hoax. Sign me up for the b-slapping of the troll. Hope your recovery is quick and complete Greytdog!


  94. I hope you answered “yes” to your SO, Greytdog. I say use any rationale you can to get a nice bouquet of flowers. 😉


  95. I told my SO about the nasty little hoaxster troll & how it was a bit eerie reading everyone’s very nice comments. . . to which he responded “Does this mean I need to get you a flower arrangement?”
    Sigh. Men.


  96. Greytdog,
    I was catching up on this blog this morning and saw the “notice” about your passing. My first though was this person is not a regular, it must be a hoax. None the less, I found tears welling up. You have become a very important member of this “family” and we would miss you terribly if you left. I am so glad my instincts were right and you are still here with us.
    Blessings to you and yours.
    As for the troll, Karma will get her, and maybe a few good bitchslaps along the way!


  97. The Cheneys really like being the power behind the throne. I look at Dick Cheney and think Rasputin. I look at his twisted little girl and think how easy it is for evil to thrive. . .


  98. Ah, some of you are reading her comment, about a Cheney 2012, as meaning herself, I think she meant daddy, because she is so intent on gilding the old turd and his evil ways.


  99. And to go along with those photos of love–

    Here’s a poem I wrote a long time ago–


    “There’s a new dance step in the world today.
    It’s not as popular as the jazz step or the charleston.
    That’s because I’m the only one who knows it.
    All I have to do–
    is look at you.
    You make my heart dance.”

    Have a good day everybody!


  100. n.o’s p. Right on with that Cheney woman. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that there are as many crazy right wing woman as there are men. They’re just a little late getting to the starting gate. I suppose we’ll have to put up with Republican women mud wrestling as an adjunct to the next Repub convention. I expect the far right wing of that party to demand it.


  101. Greytdog, beautiful photos, thanks for readjusting my brain waves this morning.

    and I agree about the Skittles. I don’t see the draw but the younger set does. A young woman (24) who worked with us last summer was addicted to them. Ate 3-4 packs a day. Sadly, she couldn’t keep up with the older workers (we’re 60, 61, and 65)


  102. Oh, my…..SORRY!!!!!
    Somebody’s idea of a joke??
    Glad you are fine, Greytdog!! 🙂


  103. I heard that Betty ate her mother’s liver and buried her in her back yard. Has anyone else heard that?

    I think it was because her mom found out that she planned to run away with Nancy’s boyfriend frederick
    to join the circus. I really don’t think they’ll do well, though, they’re just not very funny.


  104. Skittles & Pancakes? Oh gross. I mean really really gross. I love buckwheat pancakes, blueberry pancakes, apple/oatmeal pancakes, and corn pancakes, but no way would I ever put skittles (YUCK) in my mouth much less near a friggin pancake.

    Here’s your “feel good this day” photo gallery: Enjoy!


  105. So sorry to hear about Greytdog…she will be missed.


  106. So glad everyone is healthy and still kicking. We get visited by these grade schoolers periodically with their inane humor and usually with foul language. Just comes with the territory, I suppose. And yes, their IP addresses are captured, but unless they commit a real crime, we normally just ignore them. People who get their kicks from disrupting others lives are just lacking security and contentment in their own. And when you get 3 or more together, it usually escalates to see who can make the biggest ass of themselves. That old competition comes into play. So be it. We all know karma can be a bitch sometimes.

    no one’s puppetΔ, that Liz Cheney scares me. She has the same mannerisms and inflections her dad does. The force is strong with them. Beware the dark side, my friends. That is one scary family. I would like to see Darth behind bars for the rest of his days for his crimes against humanity. I can only be grateful that he will eventually get his just reward, if not in this life, then in the hereafter.


  107. Liz Cheney suggested her father should the Republican candidate for President, I’d pay good money, to some one’s favorite charity, to see him and Palin go after each other in a primary.


  108. Scroll on by if you wish,
    but I found this interesting tidbit of information today in the book I’m reading…………

    We all know how independent Eleanor Roosevelt was both before, during, and after her marriage to FDR.
    Early in her traveling around the country during the Depression, at one point, she picked up a hitchhiker. The man was so taken with her and impressed with her work that he told her he would name his daughter after her. She said no, but asked to be a godmother instead. From that day on, Eleanor Roosevelt wrote a check to this man as a ‘godmother’ for 10 dollars every year on the little girl’s birthday. The last 10 dollar check she signed was the day before Eleanor died on Nov. 7, 1963. This story comes from the second volume of First Ladies: The Saga of the Presidents’ Wives and Their Power.


  109. You are absolutely right, Tine.
    I know a guy who kept a blog that he used as a watchdog versus the local school district to keep them accountable. He was always posting how “so and so” visited the site and even stated that an IP address identifies each visitor.


  110. I’m not suggesting that Matthew actually *should* track down that nasty troll. Just wish such idiots would realize they’re not as anonymous as they think they are. Maybe they’d think twice about crapping on other people’s porches then.

    There are other ways to track people besides e-mail addresses. I believe every comment in a public forum leaves an IP address (please correct me if I’m wrong, Peas). We leave footprints when we even visit sites and don’t say anything. A blog owner who really wanted to track someone and knew how to follow the digital clues could do so pretty easily.


  111. Matthew can only help if they entered an email which you don’t have to do on this site… just saying. Glad you’re alive greydog


  112. Greytdog: I wasn’t around much this weekend and didn’t read the greatly exaggerated reports of your demise until this morning. I simply couldn’t believe it. *Wouldn’t* is more like it. I was horrified–in total denial–hoping it was some troll.

    Thank god you popped in shortly thereafter and set the record straight. Whew!

    As for “Betty”… I don’t imagine it would be too hard to find that waste of pixels with the help of Matthew. When she is found, I will gleefully join you in The Bitchslappening.


  113. Vgman, my grandma’s version was “My aim is to keep this bathroom clean. Your aim would help.”


  114. … off to find out what skittles & pancakes is….


  115. HRH sofia EQ,
    Your revelation of “evil queen” had me laughing.
    My mom had to handle a husband and six sons in the house. She had little signs in each bathroom that read,
    “I aim to please–
    so won’t you please aim, too?”


  116. PS. I will tell them over at the Skittles and Pancakes Blog the good news.


  117. Oh my. I just read all the comments above. How horrible. Who would do such a terrible thing. That is not very funny. At all!


  118. Yeah, Gaki – you can buy her dinner (AND dessert!).


  119. Just heard the news on another blog about greytdog’s passing. Had to rush over here to see how everyone was doing. Is there somewhere we can make a donation to honor Greytdog?


  120. Yes or Maybe no. Apparently s/he was very sick, but there seems to be some confusion on exactly when she died. So sad…


  121. Greytdog – so happy to hear you’re still with the pack. Wouldn’t be the same without you.

    The recent hoax postings remind me of the mentality that leaves flaming bags of dung on porches. “Nothing constructive to offer, so let’s spread inconvenience, annoyance and pain. Then we can laugh at the victims.” Yeah, and pretend that this makes you superior – or at least noticeable.

    Do something useful if you want to be important. Otherwise, you can pretty much count on being ignored for life. Get used to it.


  122. HRH Sophia -Iam going to think about another meaning for EQ!! Something much nicer.
    Yes this has been frustrating. Knowing nothing about strokes I thought I would be BAck to almost normal in a couple of months.LOL
    I am still listed (I think) as on extended leave from my school as I have never submitted a letter of resignation.
    I stay busy STAcks of books, computer, cell phone, writing childrens stories ,some volunteer work. etc.
    BTW(I’m now 80 YO.) FRustrating n ot to pick up th ings from the floor!!


  123. Greytdog died????


  124. Grandma Katie, My Dad had a stroke at about 60 yrs., just when my son was born. He also lost most of the use of one side. Since he was a pretty tuff, determined guy, he managed to learn to do quite a lot for himself and even got back to tinkering and inventing stuff. He just learned other ways to use his tools and just kept on for another 12 years.

    It sounds like you’re making wonderful progress though I suspect it can be frustrating. I remember being on crutches for 3 weeks when I sprained my knee. Mostly I was frustrated by the little things like not being able to carry my cup of tea to the table. I admire your bravery in tackling this issue and wish you continuing successes.


  125. Jean, when I had read all the new posts and was looking for something else to read, I looked in on your blog. It’s a great source of new reading for me. I really enjoyed the first two stories and will read the rest as I have moments to spare. Thank you for writing it up.


  126. Useful information… That same husband and son came up with a wonderful idea for keeping the peace when I happened to be away from home and the son was a teenager. They decided that whatever was wrong, it was my fault. The milk was left on the counter, my fault. mess in the hall, my fault. I think it was a very clever way to keep them from killing each other. Just thought I’d pass it along.


  127. and now back to our regularly scheduled program….
    vgman and Jean, yes, both right. I am Her Royal Highness Sofia EVIL QUEEN!!!! My husband, with approval from our son, say that I used to be the Beautiful Princess Sophia. But then due to some apparent imperious edict (probably like “put down the dammmm toilet seat”) I was renamed. So I decided to just go with it.


  128. Gosh, I am so very sorry to hear about Greytdog’s passing. I haven’t been online for a few days. Just checking in and scrolled down to find this. She was such a wonderful commentor here. She will be missed.


  129. Shannyn Moore just posted this: TOO FUNNY

    “Good Lord.this is just perfect, in front of Palin’s favorite clothing store”


  130. Greytdog – just went back and was rereading your post about your stroke. Am so glad you are recovering so well.
    I had a bbbbbbbb”bleeding” stroke. Had no pain or h eadache. Ended up paralysed on right side. Next month will be 2 years. Now get around with walker, do many things by myself… However family doesn’t want m e to live alone.
    Oh well, thanks to computer typing is getting better. Good hand exercise!!
    BEst wishes to you and your family. They are taking good care of you.


  131. LOL Pamela it really is a full time job!


  132. I guess you’re right kitkat.. LOL stillllllllllll makes me cranky girl! lol but not near as cranky now that gd is still alive! ha ha!


  133. lori, after the Penguins OT win and Pitt’s win yesterday, guess we can only do so much — Stiller Nation seems to take it in stride 🙂


  134. LOL… wow that was a nasty hoax… wb Greytdog! lol good catch poolman!

    and now if only it were a hoax that my steelers lost I’d be a happy camper..;-) eh kitkat? lol


  135. Greatdog, I couldn’t be happier to hear of your Tom Sawyer sort of morning. Trolls suck, but it was nice to think of you hearing how much people care for you. 🙂


  136. I think most of our thoughts are part of a huge cosmic soup of consciousness and the more we tune in via reflection, meditation, contemplation (avoidance anyways of mind numbing activities) the more we are prone to similar and mutual creative flashes. I had also chuckled over the appropriateness of coinciding beliefs of 2012 disasters and her potential run for the presidency.

    I personally don’t harbor a belief in world destruction on Dec 21, 2012, though I do believe we may see many more ‘natural’ disasters due to the gravitational shifts with the planetary alignments that are supposed to take place. In truth I don’t know enough about astral physics to understand much of what I read.


  137. pamela…I hadn’t seen that link. Great. but so much for thinking I had thought of something original.. I’m just hoping that enough people taking her seriously in 2012 is bigger fiction than the movie!


  138. Greytdog, please accept this big cyber hug. So relieved and happy to see you in person, so to speak). I gasped and cried when I read that awful piece of news (crap). It takes a sicko to say something that cruel. I’ve enjoyed and admired your intelligence and humor ever since I started reading Margaret and Helen’s blog. I know we all want you around for a long long time. Keep working on getting well.


  139. suz, you will love this if you haven’t seen it already…. so funny!


  140. Greytdog… getting a nod from you made my day! Well, that and the fact that you’re still kickin….ass!


  141. Hi gang and Greytdog,

    Needless to say, I am soooooo relieved that you are alive and kicking as usual!!! You can’t keep a good woman down for long even if her demise is falsely reported.

    I’m patiently standing in line for a swipe at bitchslapping that ghoul.

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  142. avotresante Δ, your memory isn’t faulty -actually the juvie problem seems to be changing – for the good. He’s enrolled part time in a faith-based school for the math and chemistry and he seems to be thriving in the smaller class sizes. He’s really quite smart. I’m doing the homeschooling in English and American History. And I’ve been giving him some really tough assignments to fulfill. And he’s doing good work. Still some rough spots – discipline on his attention span, but he is 16 – and learning how to use a real dictionary and reference books rather than Wiki. He has stuck with banjo and is quite proficient now. When I was very ill, he was a great help with the animals and around the house. We’re talking a lot more now, and he’s growing up. Talking about college or the Army. . . & he gets his driver license in March….:::Shiver::::

    suz – love that connection you made between Palin/2012. Excellent!


  143. Greytdog:

    Cripes. I go off line for a couple days And I come back to find that you have expired and unexpired, all within a few hours. You certainly have the magic touch. I suspect your nemesis BettyBoob is a Palin fan and took offense at some anti-Palin posting and this was her way of getting back at you. Trolls are a pain in the ass during the best of circumstances but this is a form of viciousness even I wouldn’t conjure up for them. We always suspected that most of them are sickos and this is just one example of that.

    Glad it turned out to be a hoax but as you noted, now you have to live up to the high expectations of the posters here. That simply means, keep up the good work.


  144. You decide. There’s all this talk about SArah Palin’s book full of lies and her ambitions for 2012. Then all this publicity about 2012 being the end of the world. Coincidence? I think not.


  145. My best to the family. What a loss to this site and others.


  146. I am so saddened by the news. I feel for the family both there and here on this blog. You will be remembered with love Greydog.


  147. Greytdog, I’m so glad you’re ok.
    What’s your “juvie” been up to lately? Just wondering.
    (Please excuse if that wasn’t your problem a while back, my memory isn’t always dependable).


  148. Okay folks – this was just sent to me so I just had to share it with you
    Separated At Birth: Politicians With Famous Look-Alikes (PHOTOS)
    (you might not want to be drinking anything while perusing this link)

    Perynee I’m not dead. But do carry on anyway. Shalom.


  149. Greytdog, so glad to read that it was a hoax and all is well. I just don’t understand how some people could be so cruel — I’m assuming this must be common if they are warning people about it? Sad world we live in.


  150. I just read and I am so so very sorry for the loss of one of the regulars on this site. I hope the family of Greytdog knows that many of us are sending prayers and love. Rest in peace. We will carry on where you left off…


  151. woo hoo!!!!


  152. Welcome back to the living Greytdog, now you and Mark Twain have something in common.


  153. Okay now I have seen everything and that bit of trolling really takes the cake. However, I have to laugh with Judy about Greytdog seeing her wake 🙂
    Well, Greytdog, you got a lot of hits on your blog with a bunch of us trying to track you down.
    The only thing that had me wondering was the timing of the posts. If you passed away at 11:32 how come someone was notifying us at 12:19AM even taking into consideration the time difference.Even you couldn’t be that efficient with your preplanning. 😆


  154. I’m so glad Harold is doing well. Thank you for thinking of us by posting. I agree with everthing you said. Video diarrhea is just that, proof positive that network news has time slots to fill with crap!


  155. and Helen – just a quick word toooooo tell you and Harold are ok WE need your uplifting humor!!
    and we promise to have the porch scrubbed and lots of good pie.


  156. Well, praise Allah, Mohammed and Yaweh, as well as all other Gods, great and small. So glad to see you rocking on the porch this Sunday morning, Greytdog! I must be hormonal to go along with gullible or maybe just in need of a good cry, but bitch slapping Betty Boob sounds most appealing now. Can we include Susie Q in the ruff & tumble?


  157. And maybe we shouldn’t waste this opportunity to call up the porch band and share pie and wine.

    Hey everybody, GREYTDOG is back!!!!!!!!!!!


  158. I t hink the ppporch needs a good scrubbing and disinfecting after the terrible posts.


  159. Hi Greytdog, Glad to see the real news. I guess the only thing I can do now is learn from this experience.

    I chide my younger sister for being so gullible about stuff she receives as emails. Now I have to go sit in the corner and think about how dumb I was to believe such a blatant lie, instead of going with my first instinct. At least “The Onion” warns people. I should have been warned by the 3 posts in quick succession, followed by Poolman’s warning about monkey dumb virus.

    Anyone else remember the “Don’t fool with Mother Nature” adds? I always wanted to be Mother Nature, and smite the fools.


  160. Greytdog_ I can’t imagine anyone so hateful that they would tell us something so awful.. DElighted that it wasn’t so!! Keep up the good work on your stroke. When you are up to it, read “the Brain That Changes Itsellf” by NOrman Doidge MD and the chapter on strokes. Helpful. All my love GRandmaKatie


  161. “Oh – but thanks for all the nice things you folks said.”

    Okay. Now I’m laughing. You have just witnessed some of your Wake. How many of us get to do that?


  162. Greytdog,

    I cannot tell you how happy I am to see your post! There really are some ugly people out there; I was hoping against hope that others here were right and BitchBetty was a troll. We will all bitch slap her if we come across her.



  163. Oh – but thanks for all the nice things you folks said. I see I have a lot to live up to for sure now! 🙂 And Whirled – thanks for posting my fave video – I love Playing for Change.

    And I promise to start posting for frequently so that jerks like Betty can’t play their nasty little game on anyone.


  164. Uh guys, reports of my demise are not only greatly exaggerated but a bit shocking to me even! Trust me on this – I really am alive and well. Kicking even. And because so much of my work and personal stuff is digital, I set up an account with a company that will notify the blogs &forums on which I participate should I die… likewise the company will enable my family members to access all my encrypted passwords and codes and such. Plus SO already knows if something happens to come on here and let you folks know. Betty whoever that is is not my SO.

    So I’m around, I’m here, I’m alive and if Betty ever crosses my path I may just have to bitchslap her upside the head for being a cruel and fugly prankster.


  165. Lori, I know what you mean bout that Libra thing….whew, besides tiring it is really time consuming too, trying to understand and ‘balance’ both sides of the story.

    Off to clean my messy abode. Think I’ll replay Stand by Me to get me started. Good day!


  166. Whirled Peas thanks for that link to ‘Stand by Me’… much needed after going to Susie Q’s link…. damn! I didn’t think I was old enough or close minded enough or whatever to be a prude but that was just damn shocking after crying myself a river here over Greytdog. Couldn’t get outta there quick enough. Now lol.

    Strange what people will get off on and I’m referring to Susie Q for leaving such lie of a link here to trash the porch. Shame on you! That’s just a pure lack of soul.

    WARNING! Beware Susie Q’s link is not to anything having to do with Ann Coulter and you will get an eye full of pornography if you go there. At least that’s what I think I saw as I was scrambling for the delete button. Now LOL.


  167. Poolman, I do hope you’re right though it’s really hard to imagine even a troll could be that callous and cruel

    Greytdog, you have been such a light in these posts and I find myself in tears thinking of you not being here.

    Blessings to all of you who miss loved ones passing too soon and hugs especially to you Juneau Joe and to Greytdog’s family, for if this was (hopefully) just a hoax it is a cruel one and it is just shocking to have someone say in such a public way that someone in your family has passed.


  168. That was my first thought as well. But then I thought that was my cynical side popping up and decided no one could be that rude…. Sometimes being a Libra can be so tiring..;-) In any event I hope it is just a really nasty snark that had nothing better to do after a few drinks last night.


  169. Poolman, my first instinct was to mistrust the post. If you’re right, that is one sick, manipulating person and could even be the new incarnation of “James.”


  170. has anyone heard anything more?


  171. I hope you’re right, Poolman.


  172. I think Betty Ftizpatrick, susie q, and frederick, were all our Saturday night trolls that come through the parlor on occasion. I do not believe “Betty” about Greytdog. I could be wrong. I hope not. but I think they read our thread and made the comment based on our concerns.


  173. I found myself hoping it’s just some dumb pranksters joke. I fear it is not.

    But Greytdog, I was just getting to know you!!!

    My heart goes out to your family, Mom, and all your pups. And thank you Betty Fittzpatrick for letting us know. As much as I hate it, knowing is better than not knowing.

    Yeah, Helen’s right AGAIN.
    “Hug your loved ones every chance you get. I mean it. Really.”


  174. This reminds me how transient life is, although I am saddened by this news, I am so glad I had the opportunity to know Greytdog through this medium. As I find the time I will go back and reread her comments. I want to extend my sincere condolences to her friends and family, including her pets. Thank you so much Ms Ftizpatrick for informing us of her passing. RIP Greytdog.


  175. 😦

    GreytdogΔ’s passing has me
    speechless, so all I’ll say is…

    *You will be missed*
    I found this linked on her website:

    Stand By Me ~ Around the World

    As Helen says: “Hug your loved ones every chance you get. I mean it. Really.”

    It might be your last one ~ Δ ~ 😦


  176. OMG! I feel so sorry for Greytdog’s family and friends. What a tragic loss. I know I will miss her wit, compassion and intellegence she always brought to this blog.

    I don’t even know her real name or anything about her “real” life” but I do know she was a special lady.

    It was lovely knowing you Greytdog, rest in peace. Lori


  177. Betty Ftizpatrick posted at 12:19AM November 15 that Greytdog passed away at 11:32. Greytdog had just posted at 6:20PM.
    What shocking news. Can anyone find out details, Poolman? How terrible for her family and so sudden when she seemed to be doing better.
    How tragic!


  178. “Hug your loved ones every chance you get. I mean it. Really.”

    I am shocked and saddened to hear about Greytdog’s passing. I don’t comment often, but I read what you all have to say. I have always enjoyed Greytdog, both here and on The Mudflats. My thoughts are with her family. Her passing really brings home the meaning of Helen’s statement above.



  179. Why are people so stupid? 😀


  180. Oh no. I am so saddened by that news. I thougth she was doing better. Oh no. Your family is in my prayers.


  181. Check out this really amzing video proving that Ann Coulter doesn’t write her her own books.


  182. It is with a sad heart that I inform all the regulars here of Greytdog’s passing at 11:32 this evening. Please keeper family in your prayers.


  183. I didn’t think that sounded like James. The “I’ll enjoy gloating over being right” sentiment isn’t far off, but James is always more detailed and shows thought in his writing.


  184. Hi gang and Bruddah Peas,

    I always look forward to your links and the weekly presidential address. But I also always check for your avatar in the process of scrolling and you threw me a curve by changing your pic.

    Show off! Just because you are a whiz at popping up new avatars at will. Sheesh.

    Aloha! 🙂 and Namaste!

    Auntie Jean


  185. I’ve left you an award on my blog! Hoping all is well with you and yours….


  186. Hi gang, jsri, HRH sofia EQ, Kitkat and vgman,

    vgman, I too think you are a very good man. HRH sofia, I figured out the HRH part but like vgman, what’s the EQ? None of our business, but some of us are curious like that.

    Thanks for responding about cancer, genetics and the environment. jsri, I went to the link you supplied. WOW!!! I have spent quite a bit of time yesterday and today trying to plow through it and I don’t pretend I understand much of it. You are soooo right when you say it is complex! But there is some fascinating information there. Way back in 1914 this guy, Boveri made the connection between cancer and genetics.

    I just wish we could stop throwing money at wars, political campaigns, etc., and concentrate more on basic research. Getting grants for long term and exacting detailed research is brutal. Then along comes some Ego-Driven-Shit-for-Brains congressman like Stupak, determined to throw a monkey wrench into the efforts. Ah, well.

    The people who are my heroes are those who dedicate their lives and work so hard to find just one more, small piece of the jigsaw puzzle that can benefit humanity. It never occurs to them to be seeking fame and fortune. It is such an interesting journey they take.

    This is certainly not scientific but strictly anecdotal family ancient history. But I have wondered about it for a long time… My dad was born and raised in a little mining town in Northern Colorado in the pristine Rocky Mountains at 9,000 feet elevation. My grandfather was involved in gold mining. The gold ran out, so they dug deeper and found silver. That was fine until the silver ran out, so they dug deeper and discovered tungsten.

    My dad was packed off to college, then served in WWI, came back married young and had two children, a boy and a girl. He then joined my grandfather in the mines. My dad’s first wife died of diabetes when the children were 5 and 3. There was no such thing as insulin way back then.

    My grandfather died of ‘Miner’s Brown Lung Disease’ at 57 in 1932. By then, my dad and mom were married and I had come along when they were both 31. My mother was born and raised in the Deep South. She had a hissifit to get my dad out of the mines so we moved away. My younger sister was born when I was four. She never lived in the mining town.

    When it comes to phenotypes, my dad had very dark eyes and hair as did we three older kids. My younger sister was fair with blue eyes like my mother. We four kids were all raised and grew up together. We older kids caught all the usual childhood diseases; mumps, chickenpox and even measles without incident. But when our little sister caught them, she was very, very sick for much longer than usual. Further, whatever was going around school, she got it. Weird stuff like impetigo and ringworm. We older kids did not catch it as my mother stayed on top of our health. We always had a huge garden with plenty of fresh fruit and veggies.

    At age 21 my little sister was diagnosed with Hodgkins’ Disease. It is curable now, but back in the 50’s it was invariably fatal. She had a number of surgeries and radiation treatments but died at age 27 in 1960. There was no such thing then as chemotherapy.

    My parents were pillars of the community and staunch Presbyterian teetotalers. I think my dad would occasionally sneak down to the Elk’s Club for a drink, but my mother had a hissifit if he did.

    My dad always had robust health. All of a sudden, in 1964 he jaundiced. It turned out he had aggressive and advanced liver cancer. He died in six weeks at age 67.

    My older sister was diagnosed with a rare form of cervical cancer in 1978. She had surgery and has been cancer free without further treatment ever since. She is now 87.

    My brother was killed in WWII at the Anzio Beachead in Italy in 1944 at the age of 24.

    My mother had multiple food and upper respiratory allergies all her life but never any cancer. She died of a cerebral hemmorhage at age 81.

    About that beautiful little mining town. It gradually became something of a ghost town until the 60’s when a hippie enclave took over. I don’t know exactly when, but large deposits of natural uranium were discovered down in those old gold/silver/tungsten mines. I haven’t been back there in many, many years except for an ocasional nostalgic visit when my family was still in Colorado. (Like 60 years?) However, I understand there were much higher incidents of rare or unusual cancers in all ages of people who had lived in that little mining town.

    So here I am at age 80, never had any cancers or allergies and in good health except for my arthritic crappy spinal stenosis. Go figure. Where are the patterns, nature/nuture/genetic and environmental in this one family’s case history? A simple question right, with thousands of tangentially possible answers.

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean

    P. S. One more tidbit to throw into the mix as far as genetics go to scramble things up. My genealogy is a grand melting pot of English, Irish, Scottish, German, French and Native American. My fraternal great-grandmother was pure Sioux. So my ancestors were either and adventurous lot or a bunch of unconventional bounders. Could be along with some outstanding citizens were a few hanging from the family tree.


  187. vgmanΔ,

    You’re welcome for the weekly links (I hope you enjoy the others too 😉 ).

    I like having a smart president; using the new media to speak directly to U.S. and the rest of the world. The fact he addresses the nation weekly is commendable. The least I can do is pass it around.
    *I was a paperboy as a kid.

    And there, I changed my pic for all you squirrelaphobes. 😉

    That dead whale was in Oregon.

    PEACE ~ Δ


  188. No one’s puppet,

    I love the History Channel on in the background as the day goes by. Anyways, yesterday they had a show called Engineering Disasters and they recounted the sad story of a beached, dead whale in Florida back in the 70’s. The authorities finally decided to blow it up with dynamite. The resulting fiasco rained down upon all the observers up to at least 1/2 mile away–including a section that fell on top of a car’s roof smashing it in.
    I just thought your analogy of “blood and guts” raining down after an implosion rang a bell with the previously stated story.

    HRH sofia EQ–
    As he recounts it (and it’s usually better after a couple glasses of wine), “I was nine…..and throwing rocks at three squirrels. The largest one told the other two to beat it and then he chased me all the way down the street towards home.”

    vgman stands for the initials in my last name.
    My students call me Mr. VG. But I’ll take the ‘very good’ man as well.

    Good-hearted ones unite!

    I’m guessing you are….Her Royal Highness Sofia
    but what does the EQ stand for?


  189. I didn’t vgman, what did I miss?

    I just read a comment from S Palin’s book; she said a local Alaskan television crew set up an odd angle on her speech in front of the turkey killer. Straight on, my goodness that is an odd angle. Well, visualize me wiping my brow, I am so happy the gruesome sight of turkey decapitation and the weird smile on the turkey assassin’s mug can’t possibly be connected to Sarah’s poor judgment. I’ll just keep repeating to myself, nothing is Sarah’s fault, nothing is Sarah’s fault.

    Does anyone, besides me, think it was possible the slaughtered, before our eyes, turkey was the same one she just gave amnesty?


  190. vgman, please excuse my butting in. I also have a thing about squirrels, don’t HATE them exactly, but have several ongoing issues with the little devils. Especially the red squirrels who occasionally get into my older house and chew, chew, chew. I really don’t mind the flying squirrels who also get in but live quietly and don’t do any damage that I’ve found yet, anyway. Since I get a little squirrely every autumn, I wonder if I wasn’t a squirrel in a past life.

    BTW, I’ve been wondering. Does vgman stand for very good man or vegman ??? do you also post on the vegetable forum ??? Ignore the question if you prefer not to divulge, I’m just curious.


  191. Must read from Shannyn Moore:

    Palin’s Oily Lies Drip from the Pages of Going Rogue…


  192. Whirled Peas,

    You’re like a quiet moment early in the morning with a cup of coffee and the newspaper–
    Very dependable with the President’s weekly address.
    I look for it every Saturday morning. Thanks!

    BTW, my SO hates squirrels. Childhood thing….


  193. No one’s puppet–
    did you happen to watch the History Channel in the last 24 hours?


  194. I’m still chuckling about persona James’ concern for Democrats and Independents over the Republican Party imploding on itself, as long as we stand clear the blood and guts won’t land on us, so it seems to me that it’s their problem not ours.


  195. Caring

    Just thought I’d take a stab at creativity.
    Have a good day all.


  196. Jerk

    Who appreciates you, James? You do your best to pull in the opposite direction. And gloat about it. Very narcissistic of you.


  197. Poolman–you are so right.


  198. James has had a thing for Sarah Palin since she first showed up on the scene. She is the Pied Piper When tapped for vp, all the rats came out of her woodwork. When she didn’t get that prize (and she felt she deserved it) she played a new tune. Now she lures the naive to follow her down the path to destruction.

    Not only is she misleading her followers – or more fitting – worshippers, but she is succeeding in dividing the entire republican party – a feat that the democrats could not do as well if they tried.

    She is as she claims in her book – rogue. All the definitions fit her, and she wears it proud. That is real truth in packaging. As we read her written words, we can see how she continues to skirt reality.

    And metaphorically speaking, she is a Trojan Horse


  199. James–you truly are an asshole. And a stupid one to boot. The combination of officiousness, self-satisfaction, and a limited intellect are not particularly appealing.


  200. This a problem for Democrats or Independents, how so? Twenty percent of Americans now identify with the Republican Party, I figure only half of them have been following current political news, as soon as the other half realize their political affiliation has been taken over by the nut jobs, they will suddenly be Independents or Democrats. Must say the joke is on the troll, James/Craig or whomever, they profess to be next.


  201. Paul Krugman, Nobel prize winning New York Times columnist wrote “The point is that the takeover of the Republican Party by the (Tea Partyers-what he meant) is no laughing matter. Something unprecedented is happening here–and its very bad for America.” E.G. Doine (SP) has written similar thoughts. Even Obama may be noticing.

    You’re riding in a metaphorical bus. Sign post ahead reads “danger.” Someone says “watch out.” A few yell “troll” and ignore the sign. Events, including Sarah Palin are playing as I predicted. As the crash begins, some who failed to heed the warnings will wonder what happened. I will be back to remind them and to laugh.


  202. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 11/14/09

    Veterans Day and Fort Hood




    Six Hot Excerpts from
    Sarah Palin’s Going Rogue!

    #3. On debating Joe Biden:

    ‘Well, I get out there and ol’ Joe is grinning to beat the band, so I say, kind of playful like, “You mind if I call you Joe?” and he says “Sure,” loud, so the microphones could pick it up, but under his breath and without moving his lips, like a ventriloquist, he says, “You stupid bleep-bleeping hillbilly bleep, I’m gonna bleep your bleeping bleep till it bleeds,” and then he goes over to his podium like nothing happened. Well, I’ve been to Juneau and a county fair, but I never heard anything like that. So I think it threw me and gave me that twitch in my eye which the liberal media had a field day with.’

    😉 ~ Δ


  204. Whirled, I go to Cute Overload every day at the end of my news read. Also go to
    after. These two sites keep my BP lowish and reorient my brain for a better day.


  205. jsri, thank you for repeating that link. I got through most of it and will continue with my studies of the subject. It’s very clearly written and seems well researched.


  206. Lori, This cult does sound a bit medieval and probably would have worked well and for benefit back when the population was 1/40th of what it is now. I still feel the sheer number of them is a problem. Seems like they’re trying to out breed other groups. Two religious groups in our area are also producers of large families. Both groups live separately from most of society but both groups have figured the system so they can take advantage of public funds to support their very large families (they pay minimum to no taxes).
    One group does quite a bit of work for the community but the other is quite insular and think primarily of their sons (daughters are treated a lot like the Quiverfull’s are).

    I can almost imagine living as a daughter in that group. I was responsible for younger siblings along with numerous household duties at an early age, but because of public schooling and a rebellious nature, I began planning my escape when I was 14. I wonder if any of these daughters will do that, too. I fear they will not be well equipped, as you noted.


  207. HRH sofie, they are a tribe that’s for sure. It isn’t there religious affiliation I have a problem with, they really don’t show-case their religion so much on the show. Whatever floats your boat and gets you through the day in a healthy productive way is okie dokie with me… However … It is how they “raise” these children that makes me cringe. One example: after the newest baby is “weaned” from Mom the child is literally passed to an older child to be care for…. they use the term “buddy”. Each child has at least one “buddy” to look after. The children all have jurisdictions they are responsible for, cooking (for 22.. three times a day!) cleaning, laundry, child rearing etc… The parents do very little in comparison to the children’s duties. It’s like a mini work camp for those children.

    I don’t care what anyone does in their own home/family as long as no one is being harmed. In this particular case I think an argument can be made that these 18… going on 19 children are being “indoctrinated” into this “cult like” way of life with no real chance of escaping, especially the females. The girls have very little home school education, and limited access to the outside world and NO interaction with peers from the outside world. If they did try and escape they would be woefully unprepared for the real world.


  208. 🙂

    Things that make you go awwww!



  209. By: HRH sofia EQ on November 13, 2009 at 6:14 PM

    Attempting to know how and why people get cancer is a complex process because there are so many variables at work. Basically it is a genetic process that is influenced or induced by environmental factors. We are constantly being assaulted by chemicals or radiation exposure that results in accumulated triggers (DNA mutations) over time so that the longer we live the higher the probability that we will eventually be affected. For a good explanation of how this all works, you might get a better sense of what is involved by following the link below. It is the same one I sent to Jean earlier. I know it is a hard slog to get through but given the complexity of the subject it is a good start. If you have any questions I’d be glad to take a shot at it but I’m not on line every day so it might take a while. Good luck.


  210. My best to your hubby for a quick recovery – and to you for hanging in there. You have really been missed. Your humor could cure just about anything….


  211. Grandma Katie and Greytdog, take heart my grandmother had 3 strokes in her sixties, but she lived to be 91. And that was long before anyone heard of bypasses, statins, or even healthy heart diets. Strokes are a kick in the pants when they happen to you, but life can be good again. All my best to both of you.


  212. JuneauJoe – I agree with all you post. Hypocrites I just scroll on past because my blood pressure misbehaves I am su re Yours d oes if we read their stuff.!!

    HRH Sophia thanks for your comments. I had no idea it would take so long to improve . But slow but sure .


  213. JeanΔ ¥ , I’m really glad you re-introduced that stuff about cancer and environment, etc. I had meant to go back to read JSRI’s reply and try to understand it better, maybe ask questions but couldn’t spend the time till now. Now there are seveal posts about it and I’m still trying to understand. Thank you JSRI and Kitkat for your responses. Sometime ago I believe I was told that they discovered that most cancers ARE environmental. That only cancers of breast and reproductive organs are genetic. I don’t remember where I heard that but I do remember it was just after the study was finished so I don’t know if it’s true.

    The gyn who said “don’t worry, they’ll find all cancer is genetic,” I believe meant for me to not worry my ‘pretty little head’ about it, that there was nothing to be done about it. I’ve always mistrusted areas of industrial polution like Love Canal where they found large increases of cancer and birth defects, as well as “cancer alley” in Louisiana. I just did a little research and no one seems to believe that industrial polution has caused an increase in cancer. Since I know they are money driven, I assume they lie.

    A friend whose garden I work on just discovered she has either ovarian or endometrial cancer. She won’t know exactly until they do surgery. She said it hit her like a wall, she’s always been careful about everything she should, excercises, eats well, etc.
    Another long time friend has prostate cancer and since he didn’t do anything about it until it is too late, (he’s been depressed since his wife died of lung cancer 5-6 years ago) I doubt he will last the winter.

    It’s a scary subject for me right now, but I want to understand. In the cases of my friends, one’s environment was ideal, I don’t know why she got cancer, the other, I almost feel was looking for a way to die because he feels his life has become meaningless. We all live in what seems like the ideal geographic area.


  214. Whirled Peas, I was gonna say that. I too, feel that those who want to play should be the ones to pay. (for their own Viagra, that is.)

    And thanks for the links as well.


  215. A lot to catch up with here.
    Grandma Katie and Lori from Nov 12,
    Just read Wikipedia on Quiverfull, they sound a lot like the VOLES I found eating all the roots from the bottoms of the Siberian and Japanese iris at a job. They are truly fruitful and are multiplying at an alarming rate. (voles are short tailed, vegetarian rats, some are pine voles but there are many other kinds as well) I’m finding them in most of our gardens in the past year or so. The real problem I have with the religious humans being fruitful and multiplying puts more intelligent people at a disadvantage in the numbers game. The dumb ones use their religion to explode populationally and the smarter people who understand that resourses ARE limited and have only one or two children are becoming fewer.


  216. Jean:

    Your relatively simple questions have answers that are enormously complex and H&M’s website may not be the best venue to try to sort out the answers. But your Question about gene mutations and how soon they respond might be answered this way. In the case of high energy radiation such as that seen in Hiroshima or Chernobyl, the DNA may be altered at the moment of exposure, but the effects may take years to express themselves. For an answer as to why this is so, I’d refer you to a website sponsored by Nature magazine that has an up to date explanation.
    Check it out here –

    If the DNA mutations produced are in somatic cells (non-reproductive cells) the effect will most likely be localized within the individual and will not be passed along to the next generation. If it is a reproductive cells (sperm or egg) it can be passed on to the next generation but, even at that, it may take several generation before the right combination of factors allow it to become expressed.

    If any of the terms become overwhelming, get back to me and I’ll give it a whirl. Lotsa luck. You’ve picked a complex subject that doesn’t always have straightforward answers.


  217. I can personally attest to the fact that gender reassignment surgery is not covered by insurance. My sister is severly in debt after paying for hers this summer. It’s seen as cosmetic and not medically necessary. I guess they don’t consider it necessary for mental health.


  218. I agree that emotional responses don’t lend themselves to charges of hypocrisy. For myself, I often find that I shrug and say “that’s just how I feel.” And I do try to afford others the same opportunity.


  219. Accusations of hypocrisy get messy when they’re tied to opinion.

    You don’t believe that life begins at conception, so it’s not a life to you. It is to them. And to them it’s hypocritical for you to say that you believe in equal rights for all people – except when it comes to a “baby’s” right to life.

    To be “pro-life” is not to be anti-death. It’s fashionable to draw the parallel, but it’s meaningless. People are entertained by the irony, but it really doesn’t get to the truth of anything.

    Thanks for your earlier response to me Donna.


  220. Auntie Jean, on your gene questions, mutations can happen in both somatic (body) cells and in gametes (sex cells). Mutations in those babies were probably due to sex cell mutations, but if the woman was already pregnant, radiation could affect the fetal growth and development. Many mutations in sex cells are not compatible with life. Mutations in body cells are happening all the time. There is a lot of duplication in what is happening genetically to act as a cushion, making many of genetic alterations harmless. However, sometimes they do cause problems, and that’s when we get sick.

    Cancer is both genetic and environmental. I recently had genetic testing done, as my mom has the gene for ovarian and breast cancer. I luckily do not have the gene. If I had, my chances of getting cancer would be higher at a younger age than those without the gene, but by the time one gets to old age, the gap narrows, and the chances of getting cancer increases for those with and without the gene.

    That’s it in a tiny nutshell from my anthropological POV — maybe there are some biologists out there with further insight.


  221. Thirty days behind bars would do that Orly woman a world of good.


  222. WP, if they do that with vague language, do you think I can then get acupuncture treatments covered saying they are part of my spiritual treatment?


  223. Direct link to The Dish.

    A Round-Up:
    The Odd Lies
    Of Sarah Palin



  224. The First Ten Lies
    from Going Rogue.

    Some background from The Daily Dish.



  225. Yeah DeGirl Δ ,

    digby follows up with a doozy:

    Spiritual Healing

    “…so often true these days, satire is no longer operative with the right wing having retired the concept of hypocrisy. Howie sent me this post with a real life provision which I quite seriously object to having my tax dollars spent for:”

    ‘A few days ago the L.A. Times reported on a provision slipped into the Senate bill that “would require insurers to consider covering Christian Science prayer treatments as medical expenses.” Orrin Hatch is behind the provision, but he was aided by Kennedy and Kerry, the senators from Massachusetts, which is where Christian Science has its world headquarters.

    The measure would put Christian Science prayer treatments — which substitute for or supplement medical treatments — on the same footing as clinical medicine. While not mentioning the church by name, it would prohibit discrimination against “religious and spiritual healthcare.”… Phil Davis, a senior Christian Science Church official, said prayer treatment was an effective alternative to conventional healthcare.

    Let U.S. pray … on the Federal dime!

    8) ~ Δ


  226. I am not sure you really are asking for an answer delurker? LOL But just in case you are, it is because….. of the people who actually give MONEY for campaigns (lobbies) … are anti abortion – pro death executions.


  227. Good grief, I’m just on a roll here… I’ll add this and go away for a while!

    A significant portion of the population is morally opposed to the death penalty, but tax dollars are used to pay for that. Why is funding executions OK with the same people who are adamant that no money can indirectly be used to pay for abortion? It’s taking life, which is sacred, too.


  228. Delurker girl … here is my guess..

    The Stupak amend we will be “modified”, but the essence will remain. No government monies for abortion. That way both sides can take away a “win”.

    We will get a healthcare bill. My guess is it will be a “state of the union present”.


  229. Wow, Peas… hadn’t seen that An Immoderate Proposal piece. That will get men’s attention!

    I meant to include fertility treatment in my list of examples above.

    Do the moral objectors have a problem with providing health care to the Ft Hood shooter? I bet they do! The man is paralyzed and headed for the gas chamber. Why do we care if he’s fit to stand trial or get better? It’s gonna be expensive! Other amendment should be forthcoming, right?


  230. Good examples, Donna.

    So what in the world can be done? Like someone up there said, if the Stupak amendment is removed, the bill will be filibustered. If it’s not removed, it may still be filibustered by people who want that amendment gone. How the heck did we get strung up like this? How do we get health care? HOW and WHY did Democratic reps let this happen? I really do feel like if this doesn’t get done by 2010 elections, we will have missed our golden chance AGAIN.

    It’s truly infuriating.


  231. An Immoderate Proposal
    by digby

    ‘I have a moral objection to paying for any kind of erectile dysfunction medicine in the new health reform bill and I think men who want to use it should just pay for it out of pocket. After all, I won’t ever need such a pill. And anyway, it’s no biggie. Just because most of them can get it under their insurance today doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have it stripped from their coverage in the future because of my moral objections. (I don’t think there’s even been a Supreme Court ruling making wood a constitutional right. I might be wrong about that.)’


    ‘I realize that many people disagree with my moral objections to men getting erections which God clearly doesn’t want them to get, but my principles on this are more important to me than theirs are to them. So too bad. If you want a boner, pay for it yourself.’

    8) ~ Δ


  232. what about vasectomies? Or birth control? Or circumcision?


  233. Curiouser and curiouser, Donna! Maybe Orly is working on her insanity defense.
    So back to the Stupak amendment… this amendment is to ensure that no money taxpayers have paid in taxes can be used to pay for a procedure that many find morally wrong. It doesn’t matter that it’s legal. So what’s next? What other morally objectionable procedures should be attacked next? Doesn’t this open the door to prohibing all sorts of procedures? Gener reassignment, breast augmentation, stem cell procedures, transplants, etc. How is this not government taking control of our health care?


  234. I just dropped in to see if Helen had found any time to give us an update on Harold. I wish him a speedy recovery.


  235. Delurker–Orly is not paying the $20,000 sanction. She apparently believes that filing an appeal stays enforcement of a judgment (which any first year lawyer knows isn’t the case). Things should start getting even more festive.


  236. Helen,

    I do wish you well and your Harold a speedy recovery! Thank you for posting! We all appreciate your words! We really mean it! We really do!



  237. U.S. Deports Lou Dobbs

    CNN Host Had Been Living Illegally In Country Since 1961

    Luis Miguel Salvador Aguila Dominguez, alias “Lou Dobbs,” is escorted by DHS agents to the airport to be sent back to Mexico.

    😉 ~ Δ


  238. Hi gang, HRH sofia EQ and jsri,

    Just for the record, the issues of abortion, 9/11, Muslims, the Bush Bungles, etc., have been visited over and over here at M&H time and time again in the past year. For the most part, we are preaching to the choir. However, every once in a while, somebody shows up who thinks he is the successor to Caruso or Pavarotti and wants to join the chorus. The fact that he is tone deaf, can’t carry a tune in a bucket and sings off key is irrelevant.

    HRH sofia EQ, a while back you mentioned something that has intrigued me for a long time about the genetic component in the causes of cancer.

    Then jsri, you responded confirming the theory, especially the environmental factors. Finding the cause is of as great import as chasing it after the fact with expensive, painful and not always successful treatments.

    We hear daily admonishments about our naughty little lifestyle habits that cause it, which puts the onus on the individual. (That falls into the category of the religious beliefs that all our ills are the product of our sins.) I am sure there is much more to it than that. There are plenty of people who have the same habits and even environments who do NOT eventually get the same cancers.

    When we are exposed to, for example, radiation that can trigger mutagens, how long does it take for the changes to take place in the genes? After Nagasaki and Hiroshima we heard so much about high incidents of cancers and birth defects. Those were fairly immediate. Same with the Chernobyl nuclear accident. Do the mutagens change the sperm and eggs so that those characteristics are passed onto succeeding generations?

    This is stuff I would like to know much more about. Of course, I am a great proponent of basic scientific research. There is so much more that we don’t know than we do.

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  239. Thanks Poolman.

    One more: Endless wars or healthcare

    I will also mention the Trillion dollar Bush Tax cuts that went to the wealthiest among us. That along with 2 ineptly run wars = Deficits.

    Republicans like to talk about Obama deficits now after they exploded the economy!

    I don’t mean to sound angry but I think right wing folks are hypocrites. Say one thing – do the opposite then blame the other party.


  240. On a lighter note…

    Cheap-Ass Republican Health Care Plan


  241. Hypocrite: I feel the right wing are great hypocrites and craig was the same.

    debt and deficit: Bush ran up the debt by starting 2 wars. Afghanastan was a direct result of 9/11.

    Bush then decided to take the troops out of Afghanastan and move them to Iraq to look for WMD.
    We had inept people guiding at the White House with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. We wasted 8 years of lives and money.

    The deficit was NOT AN ISSUE when the Republicans had the power. As a matter of fact, any person who spoke poorly of the mess, was an enemy of the soldiers. (Total Bunk)

    I am taking care of a 5 yr old and a 3 yr old so not able to spend a lot of time here.

    I just see my dear friend as a stupid idiot. Typical Rush bot.

    Gotta go


  242. JJ,
    I agree with Tine and Poolman. Craig did attempt to answer your questions. And although he may have right wing views, he is trying to have a conversation. I thought your responses were more like “talk to the hand”.

    Whew. End of a long day. I wonder what Margaret and Helen are cooking up in the kitchen?
    Can’t wait…….


  243. Love this site and the wit and humor we all need to help pass these troubled times. Thank you, Hellen and Margaret. Hope Harold pulls through. God bless.


  244. JuneauJoe, while some might question your friend’s judgment, they’d do so with 20/20 hindsight. Your friend made decisions based on the resources & information available at the time. Since medical care is a dream for some, a ‘luxury’ to others and not a right to all, situations like this will happen again and again.


  245. Δ¥ Tine, I’m with you. I think I missed something. Bad communication skills do not equate to bad human. I think JJ is hurting and is lashing out at Craig who is failing to adequately defend his position. But then I am late to the porch.

    Good to see you Greytdog! Sending healing vibes your way!

    What kind of pie do we have available tonight?


  246. Tine:

    Hypocrite: That is why I went the stupid route.

    He feels Stupak is wrong. He feel C Street is wrong and Right Wing Leaders should not take away women’s rights.

    He backs the right wing ideas though.

    Why my friend did not go to the emergency room:
    She was strong, independent and did not like bothering others.

    She had no insurance and felt she could wait out the flu. With a compromised immune system, as in her case, because of blood clots in the heart and lungs 6 weeks earlier, she should have allowed people to take her into the emergency room.

    She decided not to run up the debt and felt that her strength would get her through. It did not.

    If she had insurance – she would have gone in to the emergency room.

    It is my feeling that No Insurance caused her death.

    Wars etc: We do not question the cost of war but we sure do question the cost of paying for health care for the uninsured.

    Tine: Kind of felt like I hogged the forum – sorry folks.

    back to regular programming


  247. OK, I’m feeling a bit like a fencepost myself here…

    Could someone please tell me what was so offensive and/or stupid about Craig’s responses to Juneau Joe’s questions?

    I’m not seeing it. But that wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been guilty of cluelessness. (*scratching head in puzzlement*)


  248. Hi gang and Juneau Joe,

    Talking to a fence post is futile. Give it up.


    Auntie Jean


  249. The Ann Strongheart and baby link:

    Thanks Grandma Katie: I am so glad you and Greytdog are doing well. Keep it up.

    My stupid friend: I can just shake my head. I feel sorry for him.


  250. Ann and Segundo Strongheart saved many villages from starvation last winter. Segundo passed away and I am so pleased to see that baby Strongheart will show soon.

    Ann Stronghear is a true hero!!!!
    (I happened to live in a village for a winter and I have a small feel for the greatness of the YuPik people and their ways.)

    The world is a better place because of Ann and her family. I am sure Segundo is helping her to bring baby into this world. Ann is in my thoughts.


  251. Yes Grandma Katie that is one nutty family.

    The really scary part is the father of that tribe was a congressman in AK! I think he made an unsuccessful run at state senator as well. Thank heavens he is just a another reality “star” now and can’t do much harm (except to his own children).


  252. That is 18 kids a,d the group is Quiverfull. Just when I sad typing was improved, Yuk


  253. GReytdog, so glad to see youback!! I did not know there so many different kinds of strokes. am learning for sure.I am doing fine, just to slow for my part.Tying has improved, walk with a walker and get out and go when ever someone takes me Glad to see you have improved so quickly.

    JuneauJoooooe. Love all your coments to the troll. makes my day better.

    I keep seeing CABle tv ads for a show about a family that have 19 kids and counting. Just found out they belong to a religious group called Quivergull. Google that and get an insight for w hat thuay believe. SCary. If women are nothing ut baby factories, then why did we get brains so we can think? I have been on my soapbox a lot lately. Perhaps Stupac is one of them.


  254. Greatdog, how exciting! Ann is in my prayers.

    You are, too, Craig.


  255. Ann Strongheart is in labor! –

    Please send good thoughts to Ann as she gives birth to the child that her beloved Segundo did lnot live to meet, but who will still be born into love.


  256. Back to regular programming:

    What a waste of time!

    My stupid friend needs to watch some more Beck and Rush.

    Have a nice evening Stupid one.


  257. I know and acknowledge..that IRAQ had nothing to do with 911. I think I answered your questions about lies and the negotiations between nations that went on before a “collective” agreement was made in the U.N and in the world press, that there “could” be weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

    Now we know different.

    As to the Taliban…..
    We sent bombers and Spec Ops into Afghanistan long before any strikes were made on Iraq.

    You want to have a communication about a subject that YOU truly already know my feelings about..

    But then you flail your arms and run away when one tries to not argue with you but simply answer your ..
    Questions and concerns about

    I wonder how you can rant like you do..have questions sent my way which I try to answer..but when my answers do not meet your needs or comfort your emotional wounds you strike out.

    Wasted time for you…? You were the one with the time and effort and with questions directed to me about abortion and the war and health care..
    Next time… turn OReilley on and yell at the television. You already know his opinion as well.

    I’m sorry for your loss.


  258. Craig;

    Join the military. Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9-11.

    I am now truly feeling sorry for you. You are a sad individual.

    I feel I have wasted enough time with a fool this time around.


  259. I’m sorry for your loss.
    I don’t know the particulars, but if your friend had gone to ER would they not have treated her and taken her in?
    OK..I read the earlier posting….

    “Once she got on the plane – her insurance was done.”

    Are you saying they denied her because she went out of state or why the plane issue contributing to her death?

    Having “No Health insurance” did not kill her.
    She died from an overwhelming disease H1N1
    that attacked several of her major systems at once…and because she was in a state of weakness and her immune system was not functioning, she died. Again I sorry for your loss.

    But she did receive treatment..Was she turned away anywhere?
    Others have died as well.

    OK..New Argument.

    Started with Lies..
    Lies..? yep probably so…but were discussed and cussed by both sides of the aisles and by other countries as well.

    That would you have done, Madam President?
    What would you have done with 3000 plus innocent civilians dead in New York streets, Pennsylvania fields and the Pentagon building?

    Would you have just racked it up to well its been a bad day and please forgive us for supporting Israel.
    What would have done about the U.S.S. Cole and their dead sailors Madam President? What would you have said to their parents?
    …The barracks in Saudi, the bombings of our embassies..the bombings in Pakistan..the first attack on the Twin Towers..
    And now Fort Hood.

    YOU know they are coming again.

    This is not about Islam.
    They say its a loving religion.
    So much so they beheaded a man slowly and put it on YOU Tube…
    And water boarding is bad?

    But there is a group who are determined to kill as many of us “non-believers” as they can.
    And they don’t care if its British children,
    Spanish children or even their own Pakistani children that die in order to just have an effect.

    They do not have the same respect for life as we do.

    My tax money and yep a lot of others are paying as well and some with their lives and children’s lives.

    I can give you names of some of my son’s
    friends from military school who have been killed and or wounded..and They volunteered.
    My son went, spent four years..and just got out.
    He had enough. He fortunately got a civilian job in Texas..but he went right back out and has joined the Reserves.

    So I can’t argue the war.
    We are on polar opposite sides.

    I don’t like the deaths. But hopefully President Obama will give the military, the men and tools to get the war processed as the generals on the ground need to do.

    All in all President Obama has the economy, health care and the war to juggle.

    And obviously Obama has not done what the Left..your side..expected. He spread his gosple around..and got elected.
    But when he took the oath and he moved into the White House..He got a large dose of reality once he sat behind the desk in the oval office.

    JuneauJoe Δ
    Again..I’m sorry for your loss.


  260. Stupid people trying to justify the unjustifiable amazes me.


  261. JuneauJoe, why deal with this blockhead? When God said enter this line for brains, he got in the line for trains.


  262. craig,

    your ‘right wing’ views are killing people. (my friend in particular)

    your friends ‘right wing’ views will deny the Reproductive Rights of women.


  263. craig,

    How much per day, week, month are we spending on the war in Iraq?

    Was the Iraq war started with lies?

    Myself, I wish some of that money could have been used for health insurance for all.


  264. craig,

    Tax money



  265. My friend died of swine flu last week.

    No insurance and no job!

    Of course, you feel that is OK!!

    You did not have to waste any of your money helping to fund insurance for my uninsured friend.


  266. Stupak should not be able to tell Insurance companies what they will or will not cover.

    That agreement between the two parties, the insured and the company should be a private matter and should not be, ..I believe should not be interfered with by anyone living on C street and or anyone else making a law which would effect the agreement between the parties.

    And as you know I’m ..yes I’m a “right wing” MALE.
    But this decision should be between me..MY WIFE and my insurance company we contracted with…and no one else.

    And if we’re going to legislate reproductive policies..then we might as well live in china where you only get what the STATE says you can have in terms of children.

    What else can anyone else legislate? This is really a slippery slope.

    End of story.


  267. Craig:


    Should RIGHT WING MEN (Men who live in the C Street House, ‘The Family) be the ones to set REPRODUCTIVE POLICIES for women?

    Just curious where you stand.


  268. Craig:

    Should Stupak be law?

    Stupak does not allow insurance companies to fund abortion.

    We are not talking about past practice.


  269. I believe women should have the right to say what gives as to the unborn child and to whether or not an abortion will take place.

    Is that clear?

    I believe in the woman’s right.

    Now what answer do you want?
    What’s the correct answer?


  270. Craig:

    I am getting less and less respect for you by the day!


  271. JuneauJoe, I’m sorry for the loss of your friend. That’s a sad, infuriating story.


  272. Nope don’t agree with someone else making a decision.
    Why is this other person making the decision?
    Is this a proposed law to change the outcome if the doctor thinks the baby will be “less than desirable”?

    Pardon my french……but
    I thought the mother owned and operated the baby.
    Thought it was hers from conception?


  273. Had a friend die this past weekend.
    Why? No Health Insurance.

    She got the swine flu and could not afford to go get help and passed away.

    She had a weakened immune system. Why? While working she sprained her ankle. (This incident was covered by workers comp) On the weekend, it did not heal and her chest started hurting. She went to the emergency room and they put her in the hospital.
    Blood clots had gone from the ankle to the heart and lungs. They said she was close to death. A week later, she was let out of the hospital.

    She did not heal and 2 weeks later put back into the hospital for 2 weeks. She was then sent to a rehab facility. She was then put on the plane to be with her sister/nurse to care for her. Once she got on the plane – her insurance was done.

    She was healing and improving for 2 weeks and then got swine flu with no insurance. Dead!!

    People without health insurance will die sooner than those with health insurance.


  274. Craig,

    Question: Stupak outlaws all abortions basically.

    Do you agree with it?

    Should moms have the option of an abortion? What do you think about Stupak?


  275. AS for adopting I think it is a great thing that someone can bring a special needs child home or into an existing family.

    However I did know a man who was born a thalidomide baby with only stubs for arms. He learned on his own how to operate things ..doors etc with what he had.
    He happened to by my immediate supervisor for a while in my first job at a medical school in Texas.

    He had adopted by the time I had left the school three years later, some 6 if not 7 children , all with some form of handicap. His wife was obviously a stay at home mom.

    What I did see after looking at it, was that he and his wife were making close to a thousand dollars per child per month.

    I realize that these special needs children need homes..but I think sometimes they are being almost used as farm animals for the income. I’m sure the amount per child has been raised by now, but I happen to be skeptical enough about some parents adoption reasons.

    Sorry if you think I’m out of line here..but I do think it happens. I would prefer to see two children to a family ..more than that might be more than some can provide for in terms or their needs and love.

    At the school where I volunteer, They have three aides and one teacher for 9 special needs children.


  276. Hi Greytdog,

    It’s a relief to see you’re back!!! Continue to take care of yourself.


    Auntie Jean


  277. And Greytdog, good to hear from you. Glad you ar ok.


  278. Thanks Donna, and JuneauJoe for your responses to Janey. The comments here were withing the context of healthcare and the dichotomy raised from both denying coverage for abortion and the greater issue of not having a safety net for people once they are here.

    I respect life. Pro-lifers will earn my respect even more if all their proponents would adopt all children out there languishing in group homes, foster care etc. Bombing abortion clinics does not count.


  279. Greytdog, welcome back. I want to agree with you about Alan as I really do think he is trying. However, sometimes people can be so outrageous that others stop listening and I hope that is not what is happening.

    Lori, we can hope 🙂


  280. Oh, Joe, you made my day! ROFLMAO!!


  281. Greytdog, so good to hear from you. Sending you lots of get well wishes.

    Here’s a poll on the public option that will end on Friday, so if you want to add your name, you have limited time.


  282. Too good

    The Mayan People speak


  283. Stupak speaks:×4144014


  284. WB greytdog.. hope you are your old self soooooooon…. xoxoxo


  285. Raji…. I am not sure at all the Stupak thing will be removed in the final bill…. I wish it soooooo… Butttt I’m thinking at this point that won’t happen in it’s entirety….


  286. Welcome back, Greytdog! 🙂

    I’m all for moving to the parlor too. The wind’s kinda nippy this morning.


  287. greyt-
    glad to see you back!

    Question… can folks move into the parlour here, like we did last fall… ?
    Snow is at 800 feet this am…


  288. Hi everyone! First of all, thank you all for your wishes for my recovery – and thanks Poolman and Tine for your emails! They made my day!

    Raji, I have to disagree with you on Alan. He’s a good man. He may be enjoying the notoriety (as a freshman congressman, can you really blame him?) but it doesn’t have any bearing on his decision making or drive to the right thing. Alan understands that he’s not just representing the 8th District of Florida but as a US Representative he also represents the people of the US. Alan can be abrasive and outrageous because he isn’t dependent on lobbyists for his income – he’s wealthy as hell so no one owns him.

    As for Stupek, he’s part of the underground & insidious war that has been waged on women since the attempts to pass the ERA. Here’s a great article on that:

    On a personal note, a small piece of plaque from my corroded artery broke loose and basically let off a small IED in my brain. Luckily I am versed enough in recognizing the symptoms of stroke that after just a few hours of noticing oddities – stumbling, massive unexplained headache, slightly slurred speech, and then the inability to pronounce numbers like my house address – I was on the phone to my doctor and in his office. By the time I hit his office, he had already set up the catscan appointment. I was so afraid that I would forget something, that I had written down the list of symptoms I’d noticed. I had mentioned to my SO that something was wrong in my brain – and I have to admit I was absolutely terrified. But I kept thinking, too about Grandma Katie and thought she’s making it, so I know I will too. . .The catscan shows no bleeding in the brain, but it did show the plaque in the artery. So the radiologist and my doctor concurred that I had an embolic stroke. Totally recoverable. The only aftereffects now are fatigue – I have to schedule naps now – and can only work personally with my clients in the mornings. I just sit on the sidelines and supervise the afternoon sessions. And when I get overtired my right leg weakens a bit. But overall, my doctor and I are pleased with my recovery. They’ve upped some of my med doses to thin my blood a bit since these types of strokes tend to have a high recurrence rate. And The brace is off my knee too! Oh, and one other affect – when I get very weary, my accent from my childhood school days apparently returns. I don’t hear it, but I was talking with my brother the other night and he said it was like a blast from the past. . .oh well.

    Again, thanks everyone for your well wishes and concern. I love this porch community! You all rock my world. really. I mean it.


  289. Totally agree with you, Raji.

    Their job as a public servant is too cushy.


  290. What is really a sad state of affairs is the fact that politicians are learning how to get recognition like Rush and the rest. I am sure the Stupak amendment will be removed by the Senate but we all now know who he is. He has joined the ranks of Joe Wilson (You Lie) and frankly Alan Grayson. Grayson started out with what seemed good intentions but frankly I’m afraid he found he liked the recognition. Folks, it really is all about getting re-elected be it left or right.


  291. Hey Whirled, didn’t take Urban Dictionary long did it?
    Now one can ask “did you have a stupak?



  292. Thank you for always putting it in perspective for me. Particularly about the 9-12 project.

    We need you more than ever.


  293. Good riddance to bad rubbish ! Even my republican husband who use to watch Dobbs business show every night, noticed Dobbs had turned looney tunes in recent years. That is saying something!

    Was I dreaming or did I read about a month or so ago on Huff that Dobbs was done? I could have sworn I read an article about him leaving to pursue other interests? LOL Maybe it was just wishful day dreaming on my part.. 😉


  294. Hey Raji,

    Actually, the Urban Dictionary
    has this definition for Stupak:

    ‘A medical condition (subset of sepsis) resulting from unsafe – unnecessarily so – back alley abortions as a result of the “Stupak Amendment” to the 2009 Health Care Reform Bill.’

    8) ~ Δ


  295. nor will I. What’s your bet, Delurker: Fox?


  296. Goodbye, Lou Dobbs. I will not miss you.


  297. Janey,

    I agree with you about the graphic and how it is terrible. However, it is real and i cannot run away from it because i saw it either as a teacher or as a relative.

    My problem is this: The Far Right say all children must be born and then they deny pre-natal care, health insurance for the child and family as well as counseling for the family and the child when needed.

    The stress in any family can be tough but in many families, they live off minimum wage and the stresses are higher.

    Then we have drug and alcohol abuse as well the graphic nature of TV and movies which many youth see. I have had kindergarten kids tell me about some graphic movies which i would not watch.

    The far right want to portray the world as mom, dad, good income and a good future. That is not the case for quite a few kids.

    Abortion is not a good thing but it is necessary at times.

    HEALTH CARE: Every child and adult should have the same health care available to those making the laws of the land. Abortion should be an option for any woman. (I hope she should not have the need to use it but it should be an option.)


  298. What an odd thing to say, Janey. I don’t know of anyone who doesn’t “respect pro-life views as legitimate.” I do know of people, myself included, who don’t respect the tactics of many people who oppose abortion rights for others.

    As for “not being able to stand to hear the term ‘pro life,'” that’s both hyperbole and ignores the basis for the objection: that it is a crass term that was adopted to paint opponents in a bad light–i.e., “pro life” vs. “pro abortion.” Like any other cheap rhetorical device it ignores the true facts and the range of possible opinions. It’s like “partial birth abortion,” which is a cheap term for a particular medical procedure which is rarely employed, or “abortion doctor” or any other thoughtlessly used term.

    In my experience (and I dare suggest I have far more as a result of years of dealing with the violent fringe of the abortion opponents), very few people who support choice are strident about it. Their opposition is to the tactics of those who would deny that choice. It’s also to the hypocricy of those who claim to be “pro life” but do nothing to help children who are actually born into difficult circumstances.

    This I can tell you with absolute certainty–the abortion issue is often used as a fundraising tool by very crass people. Want to raise money? Crusade against abortion. Yet some of these very same folks get abortions for their daughters when they get pregnant.

    There are good and decent people who truly believe abortion is morally wrong. I count some of my closest friends and family members among them. And there are some of the worst, most vicious folks imaginable who exploit the issue for personal gain.


  299. I personally am pro-choice. I don’t judge anyone for their beliefs – whether they agree with me or not. I’m pro-choice for the simple reasons that Anne put out there in this thread. Such sensible, logical, and fair argument leaves little left to say.

    Or maybe I just wish it did. Some of these other arguments about how badly the unfortunate un-aborted “cases” are faring today are disturbing to read. No living person can be judged by another as better off never having been born.

    I’m as tired of being preached to by the partisans as I am by the religious zealots shoving their bloody photographs in my face as I’m trying to walk down the street. You don’t respect pro-life views as legitimate. You can’t even stand to hear the term “pro-life.” Your intolerance is as sinister as all other forms.


  300. This may be TMI but I unfortunately had a health problem that caused a number of miscarriages. At perhaps my saddest point, my doorbell rang and one of the hardcore abortion protest groups had dropped off (as they did throughout the neighborhood) a videotape that called all D & Cs executions. It was as thoughtlessly (literally) cruel a thing as I have experienced.

    From the standpoint of someone who has unwillingly seen the physical evidence, these are not “babies.”
    On a lighter note, Lou Dobbs is off of CNN.


  301. Whirled peas, Stupak is the new term for “stupid package”

    Greytdog, sending wishes for a speedy recovery. I know your SO and critters are all worried.


  302. Greytdog, hope you feel better real soon… Sending all yellow and healing your way.!


  303. Kitkat you are absolutely correct they are holding us hostage and there isn’t a damn thing they can do about it. Those C street people scare the hell out of me. I moved to Michigan recently and am not very familiar with the Michigan democrats… especially the UP-ers but I plan on talking to the party chairperson later on this week to get the scoop on this Stupak guy. I’ll let you know what I find out.

    I do know the district he represents is large was redistricted when he took office in 93. I know that area has a heavy Polish population… hence Catholic….I know the up-ers can be very independent in their thinking and kind of think of themselves as Canadians! Other than that I don’t know much about that district. Ill find out and hopefully we can primary him.

    Joe, your response to me made me smile…;-) You’re a cutie..

    I am STRONGLY pro choice. I do not believe the government should be in my church, temple, mosque (or lack there of), bedroom, uterus or sex life! They should have no say so in what I drink .. eat… watch or listen to… smoke…ect…


  304. lori,

    I hate to say it but I am agreeing with you.

    We need to pass health care for as many as possible. Stop the pre-condition crap which is happening now and allow insurance companies to be held legally liable.

    We could easily throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    When the dust has settled. We need to get those who support Stupak out of office by supporting their opponents.

    Abortion: There are times when it is necessary. I have a family member who had 2 abortions. Those 2 were the lucky ones. The 3 who were taken to term have cost the government lots of money and court time. 2 of the 3 were making and selling crack and are now in jail. The support for troubled parents and kids is simply not there.

    Maxine Waters, CA, spoke of the choice of voting for a bill with terrible parts or voting against it and not getting help to the millions without health care. She voted for the bill with the hope of the Senate dealing with some of the issues.

    I guess I would have reluctantly voted for it too.


  305. The amount of money we send overseas to help other governments and regimes, in addition to the spend on our own wars on terror and drugs, couple that with our cost to maintain our military industrial complex, drug enforcement and intelligence agencies. Add to that our prisons, police, courts, and security systems and people.

    If we were willing to spent more as a government on our children – or at least placed their welfare in as high a regard, we wouldn’t need to spend as much on some of the other “priorities”. Look to where we have spent the most to see where our priorities are. Follow the money.

    It’s the same on a personal level. Look how much we are willing to spend on professional sports, newest electronics and gadgets, games, bigger homes, nicer cars, newest clothes, fancy meals, exotic vacations, toys for the lake, toys for the dunes, vices, videos, cds, etc. But how much are we willing to spend for the children?

    Money and time – we are the stewards of both. Choose wisely. 😉


  306. I do not like abortion. I don’t think anyone who’s pro-choice does. But there’s a reason it’s legal. It was made legal because women were dying getting illegal abortions. I don’t really know what these republicans are thinking. Do they think if they make abortion illegal, woman won’t do it anymore? In an ideal world, every child would be planned and wanted and loved and financially supported by 2 parents. But we don’t live in an ideal world. If abortion is not funded in the public option, and with the way the tread in health care is headed and more employers drop insurance and more people are forced onto the public plan, then more women will not be able to afford it and we will by default be back where we were in 1976.


  307. lori, I understand what you’re saying, but I think those reps are holding us hostage with that kind of thinking. They said, put this in the bill and we’ll support it. However, 29 of the 39 dems who voted against it were supporters of the Stupak bill. They don’t mean to support health reform, and are using this as a carrot. We give in and then they laugh and pull the football away, Lucy and Charlie Brown style.


  308. Poolman, I agree with your post wholeheartedly. Children need nurturing and care. However, our reality is different. Too many young women make the choice to engage in behavior that is detrimental to themselves and the progeny they bring into this world. A 15 year old mother is just not matured enough to give adequate nurturing. There might be exceptions of course. But children are just not equipped to give the nurturing needed to adequately bring up children of their own. This topic has been visited many times on this blog.

    I was lucky, I had a mother who really was a gem in the nurturing department. From a very early age, she instilled in me the fact that engaging in sexual behavior entails cnsequences. This was a woman born in 1915. I never thought about aborting a baby, never a choice I would ever have made, unless ordered by a physician had my health been at risk. Luckily for me, I was never faced with that choice.

    Regardless of my views, I will not impose them on anybody else. My circumstances were different than a lot of the other people who are faced with a decision to abort. They might not have had the nurturing and caring I got from involved parents. That is why society needs to get involved and catch these children at risk before it is too late. Education is key. Abstinence, while a good idea does not not work very well. Tell a teenager with raging hormones not to engage in sex and see the answer you get. Let us educate the kids and provide birth control if necessary. However, when the same kids we refuse to educate end up with unwanted babies, we now want to refuse them funding for abortions so that these kids can have kids we later put all kinds of labels on, for having grown up in undesirable circumstances.

    Just shake my head every time these issues come up. Wish every child that comes here is afforded everything any child should be entitled to. Reality is different. however


  309. I have just received some of the vilest anti-Obama emails ever. The pre-election variety seem kind of quaint,…

    I’m sick of it.


  310. While it makes me as mad as hell that the Stupak amendment found it’s way into the house healthcare bill I’d like to suggest an additional strategy for righting this wrong.

    First let us understand these democrats who forced this amendment have us by the balls. Without their vote, we don’t have a healthcare bill. Period.

    40 Million Americans will remain uninsured, most of them single mothers. Women who gave birth by caesarian section will continue to be denied insurance because of a “pre condition”. Affordable prenatal insurance will go the way of the dinosaur. More and more single mothers will be forced to decide between food on the table or a mammogram.

    Why don’t allow this bill to become law, work our asses off to primary these idiots like Stupak and his C street friends and replace them with pro choice democrats that will amend the healthcare bill before it goes into effect.

    I KNOW it’s tempting to become frustrated and distracted by the backroom deals and what seems like endless watering down of the bill, but please remember how far we have come. It has take us 100 years to get this far…. 100 yearsssss…..We can NOT let it slip away this time because of infighting.

    All I am asking is we proceed with caution as it pertains to the Stupak amendment. We have to play with the hand we are dealt.



  311. MiKat: Shannynmoore in AK speaks about what Stupak covers for men, while taking away rights of women. Viagra for men. If you look at who are making the amendment, figures.


  312. Ideally, children need to be born in a nuturing and loving environment. The family unit is the best design for this to happen. The first five years of a child’s life are critical to a more grounded person.

    “Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.” Proverbs 2:26

    With the breakdown of the family unit, we see the result in our society of all those unstructured beginnings. If we want to prevent pregnancies, then you have to quit having sex. Period. At least not in the standard hetero manner. We have done our whole nation a dis-service by the way we handled sex as a society. Botched it big time! We are reaping the fruits of that.

    And now we portray sex all over the media that all our children have opportunities to see. Sometimes in the DVD of the vehicle next to them at a stop light. It isn’t even sex in the context of love. It isn’t pure and sincere.

    That means we have to talk to them early and truthfully, arming them with knowledge so they can make wise decisions based on the facts.

    Children, not fetuses, are our greatest resource for the future of the world.

    “My heart is not proud, O Lord, my eyes are not haughty; I do not concern myself with great matters or things too wonderful for me. But I have stilled and quieted my soul; like a weaned child with its mother, like a weaned child is my soul within me.” Psalms 131:1-2

    We kill for all the other resources on this planet, yet suffer the most critical one. Jesus said “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”


  313. Easier,
    Thanks, but I don’t think I have gotten it all off my chest yet.

    If every American woman is forced to give birth to every baby she conceives, think how many more mouths to feed, educate, provide jobs for and healthcare too. Does anyone else out there remember a decade or two ago, the monster running checkoslovakia? (I think it was Check) He outlawed abortion. It was not long before they had government run orphanages with hundreds of unwanted children laying in beds being kept calm and un-disruptive by huge amounts of drugs. These children were virtually unadoptable because they had completely dis-associated. They were fed once a day, clothed by hand me downs and the care givers either did the best they could with the resources they had or far more common, took advantage of the children. Babies and small children were being dumped daily at the door of every orphanage and church in the country.
    Is that what we want for America, the world? How can we continue to feed the billions and billions of mouths that will keep being born?

    Of course the alternative is illegal abortions. Either way abortions will continue. Women will take control of their bodies despite the government. Many will die because of the botched or dirty procedure.

    Have you ever seen too many rats in a cage? they turn on each other, kill and eat each other. Now I do not liken humans to rats, but I see everyday on the news how crowded areas are becoming more and more violent. gangs and violence will only become worse. A mother with 5,10 15 children, no help and no resources becomes so worn down she no longer cares. This could be the very armageddon the righties proclaim is coming?

    This is WAR against women!

    Please forgive my spelling errors, I have not figured out how to use spell check on this blog yet.


  314. Yesterday, I mentioned two cases: 1 child was gang raped and another little girl was raped by her father.

    One of those cases kept the baby to term.

    I met the boy when I was teaching in a Special Ed school which had no regular education students because our students were dangerous.

    He was one messed up 2nd grader. He was dangerous. There will be many tax dollars paid for the young man. Our program put a lot into him and it was just the beginning.

    Sadly, I could easily see him in jail as an adult. He could easily hurt an innocent person too – lots of anger in that one.


  315. Mikat, “good rant”, loved it. I do not understand why people can’t seem to connect two and two to make four. Little babies grow up into adults that need decent healthcare, education, and jobs. And these babies’ circumstances at birth are so dire that they have to come into this world because their mothers could not afford to pay for an abortion even though that was the best choice for them, then you know the kind of life these children are condemned to. Our prisons are full with children born to such circumstances.

    Now if we could just provide the necessary education for our young men and women in regard to procreation and the responsibilities that entails, that might do some good. But even then, sex education, birth control in the schools! The horror!

    I am so getting tired of the stupidity.


  316. Here’s another:


  317. This is a letter from congresswomen re: the Stupak amendment. They are asking others to sign as well.


  318. “Stupak, Stupak…why does
    that name sound so familiar?”

    Rachel is at it again. 😉



  319. Rachel Maddow callin’ them out:

    “You child-labor endorsing,
    pro-slavery FREAKS!”



  320. Under the bill passed by the House, it seems Women’s exams are not funded. Changes need to be made with the senate version.


  321. Insurance: Today, companies pay for the insurance and they get a tax break. Under this system – abortion is part of the policy.

    Under Stupak, that tax break is considered federal funding – Abortion is gone
    (You can get an insurance rider and pay extra if you think you might have need an abortion. is the only out as I understand it.)

    Greytdog: Get well soon.


  322. More than that, Anne… the women who can afford insurance may still not have coverage for abortion if their insurance company takes federal funding for anything, right?


  323. I was listening to NPR the other day. Apparently, in states where parental consent is mandated, studies do not show a lesser rate of abortions. The rate of abortions all over the nation has been stedily falling because kids are waiting longer to have sex and the ones who do are more often practicing safe sex. If a girl gets pregnant, she is going to talk to her parents if she chooses to no matter the law. But a lot of girls are afraid because they fear they will be kicked out the house, their father or their mother’s boyfriend is the father, ect. Mandating parental consent only makes getting abortions harder for these girls, leading them to drive to another state or seek an illigal abortion. Remember those?

    As far as the insurance issues, when they were speaking about the amendment yesterday, a question immediately came to mind: Who needs help paying for an abortion? Women who can afford their own insurance or women who can’t? And what kind of woman can’t afford private insurance? I’m guessing, a poor one. So basically, you’re denying the right to an abortion for poor women only.


  324. Greytdog,
    Get well soon, we are sending you many healing vibes.

    It think you and so many other people (some women I am ashamed to say) need to realize that getting pregnant is a scary and life altering event. How many young girls do you know that are emotionally and financially able to care for a baby? Children should not be having children!
    Some girls will tell aparent or adult, some do not have that luxury for personal reasons.

    The church and right wing repubs are so adament about women having every baby they conceive, but once those children are born, then the woman is on her own. The estimated $200,000 to raise a chils, well what the heck that is her problem right?After all Craig, some of those children are going to be born with issues, Down’s syndrome, Asthma, Allergies, poor birth weight and some with severe health problems. Who is going to take care of them then? And gosh Darn, there are going to be so many more ethnic babies * the horror*. I just have to laugh, because it is only the darling little plump white babies they really want to be born. All the rest, well they really don’t count do they!?!

    The fact is that there is no woman out there, be she young or old, that takes abortion lightly. Having a life inside your body is a heavy responsibility. Women do not say gosh, I don’t feel like having this kid, I think I will stroll on down to the corner and have an abortion. It takes days and sometimes weeks of intense decision making.
    Babies do not stay babies, they need food, diapers, clothes, doctors, medicine, daycare, a roof over their head and maybe a warm bed, toys, books,schooling and it would be nice if they had a Daddy in the picture too. These are just some of the things a woman has to think about. I get down right ANGRY when people like you think that abortion is something a woman does easily. Oh, and by the way, Abortions are not exactly pleasant, most women bleed heavily and have cramps for days after! not something you would choose to do on a regular basis.

    A woman has a million things she must wager when deciding if she can have this baby, stop treating us like we are idiots!

    Sorry for rant, I just cannot stand the hypocrasy.
    Sorry about the spelling too!


  325. It seems we have a real list of sick people who need our prayers and good cosmic thoughts, Harold and the survivors at Ft. Hood among them. I know what this is like. I’ve been on both ends of the list at one time. Bless them all, including the ones closest to them.

    This past week has been unfathomable. Haven’t used that term since the space shuttle with Christa McAuliffe et al. blew up over Florida. Passage of the Health Care legislation by the House seemed almost anti-climatic.

    As for the Stupak contribution, if thats what anyone can call it, if any of the anti-choicers are that freaked out about abortion, then they can very easily resolve their nerves by welding their flys shut!

    Really! I mean it!


  326. Greytdog–all good vibes going your way.


  327. If you really want ‘good news’…

    …just make it up yourself…

    like Fox sNooze!!!

    After all, they can LEGALLY LIE and they know it.

    Court Ruled That
    Media Can Legally Lie

    In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States.

    Fair and Balanced? Like a butcher with a lead pencil and a heavy thumb. 😉

    Get well Greytdog ~ Δ


  328. Greytdog — hope you get well soon!


  329. Greytdog, Please hurry and get well. You are missed more than you know.


  330. Anyone you know?

    8) ~ Δ


  331. Dear, dear Greytdog,

    I am so very sorry that you are on the sick list again. This has been such a trying summer and fall for you.

    You are a strong gal and I know you will come through it all, maybe better than ever. Just know that I am thinking of you, you are in my heart and sending you warm, healing thoughts every day. I know I speak for all your other dear friends here too.

    Please take good care of yourself. We need your voice here.

    With lots of love,

    Auntie Jean


  332. Oh, and by the way abortion is LEGAL and PRIVATE. (for now). Without any woman having to explain to a man or anyone else why she and her doctor made her private decision. It is not like that is what a woman sets out to do, but when she makes her totally legal and private decision, I fail to see why it is anyone’s business but her own.
    And Poolman, I am from GA (as is Cynthia McKinney) and she is waaay out there, has totally lost all credibility locally. Sorry…


  333. Greytdog, please know we all have you in our hearts and thoughts. Best wishes, we miss you.
    Back to the Stupak bill, I really don’t get where ANY man has a right to decide what reproductive rights females have when men cannot give birth or deal with the consequences. And the Repug Abstinence Only Sex NON education is pretty freakin’ stupid, isn’t, Scary Palin? How special that the “Baby Daddy” met the presidential candidate of your party?? (Hurl)
    It is such an obvious way of keeping women down-trodden.
    Keep your cross out of our wombs, and we need to have affordable birth control and sex education and decisions for our own bodies. When males can give birth, they can decide for themselves, HAH! The human race would be extinct if men were the ones who reproduced. That’s all I can say right now, my BP is rising.


  334. third time’s the charm 😉


  335. And here’s that LINK


  336. Speech by Cynthia McKinney from the USA at the War Crimes Conference & Exhibition that took place at the Putra World Trade Center in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia on 28th October 2009


  337. Thank you for the news, Poolman. I found Greytdog’s e-mail through her blog (see hyperlink above) and sent her a get-well note. And you bet I’m praying for her too.


  338. Get well soon Greytdog! Poolman, thanks for the news. Her absence from this blog was definitely being felt.


  339. Craig:

    The question is: Should those little girls be allowed to have an abortion paid for by insurance?

    or Should a 50 year old pregnant women be allowed to have an abortion on her insurance policy?

    Stupak, as written, would not allow an abortion if the people earn under $80,000.


  340. Craig:

    The stupak amendment was pushed by the most extreme right to life folks.

    Do you agree with the Stupak amendment?
    Should C Sreet, The Family, have tax exempt status for religious reasons?

    Craig: Please check out the 2 videos.


  341. Poolman, thanks so much for letting us know so we can pray for her! Greytdog, we do miss you!
    Parental consent is a tough one! The thought that someone could perform such a life altering procedure on our daughters without our consent – or being there to support them – yikes! I would so much rather a girl in that position find someone to care them through the decision process. It’s a luxury not all young women have, sadly.


  342. Then take me out of the equation..I in no way was endorsing male..female..government or non government control of women and their rights.

    What I just read are a dad raping a happens all too frequently..and other manifestations of women with issues as it relates to abortion.
    As to the dad /rape issue..that is why we have courts..but the girl will be scarred forever.

    Now what was the question?

    How many different issues to you want to be women..and or men..
    Sounds like Supreme Court time.


  343. Please sign Senator Bernie Sanders’ petition in support of his ‘too big to fail, too big to exist’ legislation!

    Petition to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner


  344. Craig, I appreciate you coming back to talk to us, though we don’t agree on most issues. It helps clarify thoughts.

    you said “For teens ..I would prefer that they at least have to have a parents “say so” or someone with them.For teens ..I would prefer that they at least have to have a parents “say so” or someone with them.” I agree someone should be with them, but sometimes it’s the parents fault that the teen is pregnant. In some cases, the Mom’s boyfriend or such is the culprit. That’s the trouble with hard and fast rules. Sometimes, they are inappropriate. When I was a child, several men preyed on me. most were related. it was a long time ago and I have gone past it. but I understand what the problems can be.


  345. Thank you Poolman, seems like Greytdog will be with us again when she can, I feel somewhat relieved. Hope she can feel waves of energy directed her way.


  346. Poolman, thank you for contacting Greytdog. News, whatever it is is much better than no word. Our fertile imaginations should sometimes be damped.

    I will send wishes of recovery via the channels I use.


  347. Hello gang, I got hold of Greytdog and got this reply:

    “Sorry. I had an embolic stroke – already recovering but it sort of took a lot out of me. No real damage physically or neurologically, but just need time to recover. I’ll be back yakking at you all soon…. Tell everyone I said hi and I’ll be back soon!” – Greytdog

    So, I say we all pray in the fashion you all can and send healing and comfort her way.


  348. Craig:

    These are the leaders in setting women reproductive rights: You agree with them?

    Craig: I could tell you about the gang rape girl. She was 16 and a ward of the state.


  349. Craig:

    A man should not be setting reproductive policies for women!

    I had a 15 year old girl student who got pregnant from dad. Mom did not believe her.

    Who does she tell?

    Priests should not be setting women reproductive rights. Priests and White men set women’s reproductive policies with Stupak.

    I have 3 daughters


  350. Let’s face it if Greytdog was within a mile of a computer and she had the strength to lift one finger she’d be popping in here every now and then. I’m worried about her. I agree with you Imaginista, someone is here just for attention.


  351. kitkatΔ ,
    This is my most sincere comment on abortion and the medical community.

    This should not be a Insurance company decision.
    End of discussion. For reasons of medical necessity or rape there should be no questions.
    Period. Insurance covered.

    My son was born perfect and healthy and my wife’s OB/Gyn was a fantastic man.
    He also performed abortions..thus he was marked.
    My in-laws lived next to this OB/Gyn and one saturday am “they these anti abortion nut cases” show up and start parading and videotaping…The doc never came out..And I just went out and turned the water hose on them. I didn’t care. I called the cops and with them waterd down..they were ready to go home.

    But my feelings are a woman’s body is hers.
    Medically necessary I think should be no question.
    My wife had to have a first term one due to complications that could have had dire consequences if she had not.

    For teens ..I would prefer that they at least have to have a parents “say so” or someone with them.
    I guess this is where my being a man comes out.

    I just think that my cases of rape or
    medical necessity..its not even a question.

    For the young girls who get in trouble I still think that they should be given the opportunity to have one as well. But I would hope that this would not be a merry go round thing where they are frequent flyers to speak.

    Perhaps Insurance companies could or would negotiate that the woman in question gets at least 1 covered every two year calendar time frame.

    I don’t know if that answer provided you with a clear enough opinion about how this conservative feels..?

    As an extension to this is another quandry..
    What do you do about the frequent flyer that shows up at the ER or Psych unit every 6 weeks or so to be sobered up from drugs or booze?

    There is going to have to be a realistic treatment plan..and not just a band aid to really try and help these people..My wife sees them all too often..
    and all they can do is keep them for a three day period then its out the door and off to the shelter or Salvation army if they have room or will take them.
    Some other program is going to have to be instituted because we are losing the battle and its BIG dollars that could be saved for other truly medical necessary issues..cancer etc.

    Good enough answer?

    This may be off the mark as well.
    But what about a national sales tax to cover health care? Is that an ugly word?


  352. Ever notice how certain persona non grata types lay low for a while, schmooz just the right amount, pretend to be reasonable and then BAM!! It’s back to the Faux Noise talking points with a vengeance as soon as they manage to engage some of the regulars (who are far more patient and trusting than I am). It is the classic Frog and Scorpion story, I tells ya.


  353. Well said Judith! And echos my feelings!

    I thought the same thing delurker girl..;-)


  354. The memorial is impressive. Our Commander in Chief is doing us proud. I love that he’s sharing details about each of the people who were killed.


  355. Here’s a petition against the Stupak-Pitts bill:


  356. Craig, I ditto what HRH sofia EQ said. I was just trying to open a dialog to hear what other options you think should be considered. Instead I get comments about Russia in winter and writing to Mrs. Pelosi and whether I want to be cured or talk. Here’s the thing about liberals – we actually want to hear all sides so we can make the best decision. And did I understand correctly that you think that insurance companies created oversight for doctors?

    Anyway, the Stupak amendment worries me. Notice how it was all men on the committee? Why do they want government out of their healthcare except when it deals with this issue? There are already insurance companies who won’t cover abortions, as a friend recently found out when she needed a medically necessary abortion. Her doctor couldn’t do it as her insurance wouldn’t pay — she had to go to the abortion clinic and walk through the haters to go have a medically necessary procedure. This is a slippery slope and must be fought against.


  357. Juneau Joe:

    In the state of Massachusetts, a former state attorney general, Martha Coakley has entered the race for Ted Kennedey’s old seat. But she refuses to endorse the Stupak ammendment which puts here squarely in the crosshairs of the local Catholic bishop and already the newspapers are labeling her as a loser. Women of Massachusetts should be outraged.


  358. By: HRH sofia EQ on November 9, 2009 at 7:33 PM

    When your friendly gyn said “when they finish the research on genetics, they will discover that all cancer is genetic”, he was basically correct. Just about all cancers that I know of begin with uncontrolled reproduction of cells that eventually grow into the mass most people know as a tumor or in uncontrolled reproduction of cells in the blood which swamp the system. Cellular reproduction is a genetic process, and when it gets out of control, it can only be altered in its direction by treating it at the genetic level. Such tumors can be controlled by killing off the mass but that does not always control cells that have moved from the mass and take up positions somewhere else in the system that leads to further tumors. This is generally called metastasis.

    But you are also correct in that the event that triggers the uncontrolled growth is very often environmental in nature, a chemical or some form of high energy radiation that affects the genes controlling cellular reproduction. Unfortunately, we are bombarded by these triggers as a consequence of our modern living where many of the gadgets and stuff we use are the product of a process using these mutagens.


  359. Well, we do have the greatest health care in the world. Problem is, most of us can’t get to it. If we try, our policies (assuming we have them) will be cancelled and we won’t be able to get new policies because we will now be ‘high-risk’.
    Fun, huh? Might I suggest a service we can’t use is a service we don’t have.

    And I’m very tired of the terror-and-smear tactics from the right. A friend of mine buys into all of it. She works in health care (as a receptionist) and recently engaged in a long rant about immigrants who show up uninsured, insist on being billed for services and then not paying their bills. She ended up the long peroration with the statement that “I certainly don’t want any of my taxes going for their health care”.

    Now this is a problem. However, the problem, as I see it, is that the bills don’t get paid. This raises all of our medical expenses, as the costs get absorbed and passed on. This means – She is already paying for their health care! (I’d use all caps, but that would be rude). Paying for it on this back end is way more expensive than making sure they are insured on the front end. It’s a bottom-line issue.

    Of course, she also makes the assumption that these folk (being of dusky hue with accents) are a) illegal b) unemployed and c) on welfare. It is actually far more likely that they are legal and each hold down several jobs, each of which has low pay and no benefits. But she and her husband listen to talk radio all day long. Therefore, she is primarily outraged that when these people or their families get sick, they do not simply go find a field, lay down in it and die. Ok, would you?

    On the other side, we have people like we saw on the tv last night. A woman was being interviewed about what she felt to be the perils of enforced health care and managed to force out “I’m just so terrified of what might happen.”. She really was, too; I felt quite sorry for her distress.

    DH, watching this, just said “So, I don’t get this. Does she think black helicopters are going to swoop down on her front yard and make her say ‘Ahhh”?”


  360. Rachel Maddow: Who is Stupak and the others who supported his amendment that trashes womens reproductive rights.


  361. Women speaking out about the Stupak amendment and the impact on women.


  362. What a week! It all ended up with the passage of the House verison of the health care reform bill. We may finally be able to get rid of the world wide perception that this country excels in pushing people out of the lifeboat and also keeping them from crawling aboard. Seriously! I have relatives elsewhere who are amazed that with all our resources we swear we can’t do better and must make the entire place into a country club. Honestly, looking at it from their position it does seem that all this rightwingoid rant preaches is white only and you must be in superior health and wealth. Fer embarassing instance, the move to prevent an entire class of people from purchasing on the free market any sort of health insurance for themselves even when they can afford it out of pocket! It is aimed directly at people of non-white color. Switch the wording a bit and substitute “Irish” or “Polish” for what they’ve got in their own little nasty piece of legislation and you will see the hatred dripping like thin wet paint!

    Not only is it unconstitutional but anti-capitalism. I would bet there are insurance companies out there who would love to have anybody’s business!



  363. I asked on Saturday what Michelle Bachmann was wearing. Thanks to Jon Stewart, I now know. It’s a lei. I thought it was a weird collar to her suit jacket.

    She said, “Last Friday a couple from Hawaii decided the time was so short they needed to get on a plane, come Washington, to beg their representative to vote no. They brought me this beautiful precious lei, and I’m reminded that the one who created this lei also created our freedom.”



  364. HRH sofia EQ ..My apologies to you for not putting in the whole quote..It was not by design.

    I’ll try and get you a answer before day is over..
    that is, from my perspective…


  365. well, that was certainly eye opening. I just Googled “how much fraud in Medicare” Try it, I bet you won’t like what your read.


  366. Craig, just a minor correction, you quoted me without noting the next post where I corrected the word I dropped in my typing haste. the correct quote would be “kitkatΔ, I also DO NOT like the fact that medicine is ‘for profit’ but it’s just another ‘business’ in America.” I guess you just skimmed what I said because without the do not, it doesn’t make sense.

    And you still didn’t answer the question. I asked “what do you suggest we do”.. about the problems we have in this country distributing health care to ALL. I’m not looking for the ‘right’ answer…
    “I don’t know what the “right” answer is that you are asking for. ” I’m just looking for an alternative answer from one who seems to be a conservative. Seems all anyone hears from your bunch is ‘that’s not how we’d do it’ but they don’t ever tell us exactly how they WOULD do it.


  367. Hi gang,

    The euphoria is over about the passage of the House Bill so now we are back to the same old wrangling about the merits and demerits of Health Care. I don’t think it has that much to do with the caliber of care in the United States. Ours is second to none. It’s the ACCESS for the entire population that is the issue.

    Although out here, there are many, many people, some of them affluent, who prefer to go to Asia, India and Thailand specifically, for major procedures, like heart by-pass or joint replacement. They have to pay for it, but in the long run, the costs are less than in the U.S. and the care is superior.

    I find it amusing that the most vocal Republican/Conservative/Teabagger WASP males against the Health Care reform are those who have their asses covered, often by their wives’ insurance. The wives are out and about doing the heavy lifting while the whiners sit around by the hour complaining with no constructive solutions. Why are they so bitterly opposed? Could it be because their lives have not turned out to be as successful as they seem to think they so richly deserve? What ever became of the GOP statesmen or commentators like William F. Buckley and such?

    My husband has a delightful story of when he was growing up in New England. He and a group of his buddies used to go up into the woods to build a ‘camp’. They would cut down saplings with an assortment of tools they brought with them. (It was never clear whether they had permission to use the tools.) They worked like beavers building the ‘camp’ until a dispute came up over some trivia. One of them would say, “I’m going home and I want my nails back!” And he wouldn’t budge. So they had to get busy and tear down the ‘camp’ and give the kid his nails.

    That’s the kind of immature behavior you would expect from a bunch of pre-adolescents. Of course, the next day, they were all buddies again and back up in the woods to build another ‘camp’.

    We can waste a lot of time pointing out the flaws, greed and corruption that go on now and have always gone on in any society. There is nothing new about that. However, there are over 40 million people who work hard and through no fault of their own cannot only lose their health and lives, but can loose their homes and wreak havoc on their families. We have needed Health Care reform for over 50 years and stalling around with negative nit-picking is more childish than the kid who “wanted his nails back.”

    Grow up!

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  368. from Rep Lynn Woolsey,

    I expect political hardball on any legislation as important as the health care bill.

    I just didn’t expect it from the United States Council of Catholic Bishops (USCCB).

    Who elected them to Congress?

    The role the bishops played in the pushing the Stupak amendment, which unfairly restricts access for low-income women to insurance coverage for abortions, was more than mere advocacy.

    They seemed to dictate the finer points of the amendment, and managed to bully members of Congress to vote for added restrictions on a perfectly legal surgical procedure.

    And this political effort was subsidized by taxpayers, since the Council enjoys tax-exempt status.

    When I visit churches in my district, we are very careful to keep everything “non-political” to protect their tax-exempt status.

    The IRS is less restrictive about church involvement in efforts to influence legislation than it is about involvement in campaigns and elections.

    Given the political behavior of USCCB in this case, maybe it shouldn’t be.

    Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) is co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

    Should White men and priests be setting policy for women??

    Craig: I start to think, maybe there is hope for you and then you go back to goofy.


  369. I guess in short.
    I don’t know what the “right” answer is that you are asking for.

    If I knew that, or you knew that, then we would well be on our way to a valid health care system.

    What little debate goes on in this thread will pale to what will be recorded over the next few months in the Congress.

    I try and communicate my feelings about Health Care..but evidently I cannot provide the level of what I have read this evening….

    “kitkatΔ, I also like the fact that medicine is ‘for profit’ but it’s just another ‘business’ in America.”

    Please pardon me..I’m not yelling ..just wanting to differentiate my comments from yours…WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SAYING?

    “I just don’t understand why health should be a “for-profit” industry. It is not something that people should make money from.”

    ” I do not see people asking for free anything.”

    “Craig, you are confusing which part of heathcare is primarily for profit. Yes, doctors should get paid. Should they be paid as they are now, per service, or from a more outcome based system?”

    If a new system is created ………
    Doctors paid by who?
    Who records the outcome data?
    Who determines what or who has been cured?


    “Where I have a big problem is with the insurance companies who provide a middleman service and charge huge amounts of money for it. Why do we need the middleman, charging 30%, when we can do it for 4%? What is YOUR solution?”
    To have an answer..might be that someone wants to have oversight..
    Doctors did not always have that..until insurance that is..and they want results…kinda like a business.

    As I said earlier, I don’t know what answers you want..but I’m an easy target.

    Keep firing.


  370. Chocolate pecan *caramel* pie!

    Swoon — that was yummy. If she will keep making those, I think I will at last forgive my Sicilian MIL for responding to the engagement of hubby and me by saying, “Well…you win some, you lose some.”

    (Yes, she really did say that. To my face!)

    Regarding computers and the digital world: Agreed, Poolman and others, it’s here to stay. Ignore this fact at your peril.

    I’ve been writing a book on the Internet and the First Amendment over the past several months — it’s been quite a challenge, and quite a learning experience. I’m continually amazed at how much I learn by writing and editing for students. (Much of the work I do is for educational books aimed at high schoolers.)


  371. “Nobody here is asking for FREE healthcare. We don’t get free roads, free schools, free military, free police, or free fire protection. Saying “we” would next ask for free flights is moronic.”

    Good answer Delurker Girl!

    People have been using all kinds of cop out arguments in this debate. It is the same old thinking, we have to make ourselves better than other people in order to sublimate our fear, of being just like them. It is like we have to make “these people who can’t seem to afford decent healthcare look like loosers who are not quite as good as us or they would not need the government to provide them with free healthcare.” That justifies the thoughts of free healthcare and other arguments of that nature to the leeches. There are no free roads, no free policemen, no free anything alright. The collective will pay for healthcare just like it pays for all the seemingly free everything else we take for granted.


  372. Thanks HRH for the list — definitely passing that on.

    Craig, you are confusing which part of heathcare is primarily for profit. Yes, doctors should get paid. Should they be paid as they are now, per service, or from a more outcome based system? That is something that may have to change. Should Medicare reimburse at a higher rate? Probably. Should specialists get huge amounts of money? I don’t know — how good are they are fixing what’s wrong with me? Where I have a big problem is with the insurance companies who provide a middleman service and charge huge amounts of money for it. Why do we need the middleman, charging 30%, when we can do it for 4%? What is YOUR solution?


  373. Delurker–Orly has outdone herself with her motion for reconsideration. Unbelievable.


  374. OK, I quit for now, just opened this email from a friend. chuckles galore. and good night.

    The Washington Post’s Mensa Invitational once again invited readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition.

    Here are the winners:

    1. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject financially impotent for an indefinite period of time.

    2. Ignoranus : A person who’s both stupid and an asshole.

    3. Intaxicaton : Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with.

    4. Reintarnation : Coming back to life as a hillbilly.

    5. Bozone ( n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.

    6. Foreploy : Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of getting laid.

    7. Giraffiti : Vandalism spray-painted very, very high

    8. Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn’t get it.

    9. Inoculatte : To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.

    10. Osteopornosis : A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.)

    11. Karmageddon : It’s like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it’s like, a serious bummer.

    12. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day consuming only things that are good for you.

    13.. Glibido : All talk and no action.

    14. Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.

    15. Arachnoleptic Fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you’ve accidentally walked through a spider web.

    16. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito, that gets into your bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out.

    17. Caterpallor ( n.): The color you turn after finding half a worm in the fruit you’re eating.


  375. The profits of the insurance companies have sky rocketed in the past 10 years.

    Craig: You have spent a lot of time railing against Obama and single payer – socialism, etc. I see you bitching and adding nothing to solutions. You sound like a typical Republican. More people will be uninsured or underinsured and more medical bankruptcies.

    I wonder why you are on this site myself.

    I do not see people asking for free anything.

    I object to how we go to war with no thought of debt but when we try to get medical care to those without, hell is raised.


  376. but Craig, you copped out and became a republican again,…What do you suggest we DO. You never answered that question. (and Craig, the pilots used to fly me for free, well $5.00 to anywhere in the US, almost free)

    A friend who is also an obstetrician/gyn sold his practice to a small county hospital. before, he could never be sure of a day off, those babies just wanted to be born on their schedule, not his. He’s my age, 65ish. Of course, becoming a dr. adds a huge debt to your startup cost. And becoming a lawyer or better yet, a MONEY MANAGER is profit from the start. and you never get your hands dirty. I’m not saying I blame them. It’s really hard to do the work.

    You’re soooo right, Delurker Girl Δ, No FREE anything. I just can’t understand why it’s a problem for some to admit that it’s best to share the costs of the big stuff.


  377. Nobody here is asking for FREE healthcare. We don’t get free roads, free schools, free military, free police, or free fire protection. Saying “we” would next ask for free flights is moronic.


  378. Doctors: We need more medical schools. My daughter is applying and it is tough to get in.

    I question men (and Catholic Priests) setting women’s reproductive rights. I think it is a mistake.

    I have 3 daughters.


  379. Medicine a business?
    What would you have it be?

    Next thing you know your going to want pilots to fly you for free.

    I know doctors don’t take chickens anymore.

    But they do have to train and stay current in their field. So many Continued medical Education credits needed each year.

    Would you want to be treated by the most experienced and successful or the new kid?

    And really successful is not a true measure of expertise. Its an indicator.

    A lot of doctors have just preferred to be an employee.

    You are told what hours to work for what salary.

    Want more.

    You get a paycheck every month

    Usually they get their Malpractice insurance paid for.
    Paid vacation time

    Matching 401’s or 503’s

    They don’t have to worry about the employees
    skimming the till.
    Had an Ex-office manager who two years after she was my wife’s employee went to office max bought a computer,printer all the works.Then I get a call from a collection agency. Had to get a lawyer for that one to go after the office manager.

    Being an employee is just much better for doctors these days. At least at my wife’s age. She’s done her deal ..had the big practice etc.

    Then insurance came in and thats where the money went.

    See a short history of Health Care


  380. Yeah Poolman, Shiny attracts, even for those who aren’t golems.


  381. It is a transition. We are in the digital age. It is an evolution. It changes the way we view and function in the world. It makes some jobs obsolete and creates oportunities for new ones. It is not always a friendly system, but we are there. We are willing to take the good with the bad.

    Marketing has helped bring the digital into every aspect of our lives. We were sold on looks and how it would “simplify” our lives. Silly humans. We always bite the shiny lures.


  382. Delurker Girl Δ, I remember when my son was in college, there was an upsurge of kids becoming LAWYERS. the money was good, you didn’t get your hands dirty, the hours were regular, no calls in the middle of the night. Now that we have all those LAWYERS, they have to do SOMETHING to make a living. I wish I could make them want to be doctors instead, but I couldn’t do it so I guess I can’t ask them to. It is sad that people are more interested in making money than in helping their fellows, but in truth, it’s the American way.


  383. Sorry, kitkatΔ, I meant to say I DON’T like the fact that medicine……


  384. kitkatΔ, I also like the fact that medicine is ‘for profit’ but it’s just another ‘business’ in America. I could never contribute to the American Cancer Society because I felt they never addressed the CAUSE of cancer. And now I understand that they don’t address the cause because the ‘curing’ is a huge business. Many people have jobs ‘curing’ cancer. Many companies manufacture machines that do stuff for cancer patients. Can you tell, I’m just a bit jaded and cynical.

    Some years back a travel client who was a gyn (I would never consider using him, he was personable but not very smart) said, “when they finish the research on genetics, they will discover that all cancer is genetic” I believed that almost all cancer is environmental. The stuff we do causes cancer. Plastics are the by product of the oil industry. The oil industry causes cancer and the plastics cause cancer. But money is to be made, so we shouldn’t rock the boat.


  385. Oh, and by the way, Craig, it’s time you caught up with the computer age. It’s here and it’s not going away. There are some very fine results of it’s coming. I (luckily) was on the cusp of the layoffs because of it. I was a travel agent for 24 years. I went from the time of hand writing tickets (four pages of carbon, for each person travelling, cross check for family plant dad pays full, mom pays 76%. kids pay 33% and compare to most distant point, pay for Shanghai, stop everywhere on the way for free if it’s on the route, them were the days) and then the computer age hit. Many were gleeful because they felt I was getting “perks” and they wished they could get them to. the airlines loved us because we got their product out there and to show us what they wanted to SELL, they sent us there first. It was a great time but the trips were 2-3 days mostly and really WERE WORK. I DID Hawaii in 5 days. 5 islands. I DID Berlin in 4 days, including a couple of other towns, Hamburg and a walled town in the north, name eludes me, the Swedes had a junket boat where they drank and gambled on the way.
    And then the computer age hit, though it unfortunately was AFTER deregulation (thank you Ronnie Raygun) People could make their own reservations, the airlines didn’t need us, and corporations wanted a big cut of out profits. Oh well, it’s the American way. and truth to tell, I’m much happier being a landscape gardener. Much more healthy. Now I can watch all the other industries/job being affected. It’s a revalation.


  386. the elephant in the room is Capitalism. When it’s ok for all businesses to be “for profit” the result is what we have now. It’s ok to make a buck on those who are suffering. they’re an easy target.

    Craig, what do you suggest as an alternative. Bernie Madoff made out just fine. He can write the story of his life while we support him in relative comfort. His basic needs will be taken care of, He’ll probably have much better medical coverage than you will. What do you suggest we actually DO to prevent the Bernie Madoff’s of the world from stealing from all of us. We know bombing him won’t do it. We know religion won’t prevent him. so what do we do??? How do we track the thieves.


  387. I just don’t understand why health should be a “for-profit” industry. It is not something that people should make money from. Since they set it up that way, it will be so incredibly hard to change, but we really need to be single payer, not-for-profit, IMO.

    I think we also need some basic common sense. In the same AARP magazine, a woman with ALS was trying to get a device to speak for her, since she no longer could. There is a device which is big and bulky and costs $8,000. She could also get an Iphone, with a special application, that would do the exact same thing for $350. It’s also smaller and easier to carry around. Medicare wouldn’t pay for the phone, but it will shell out the 8grand. Since the Iphone isn’t a medical device, they won’t pay for it. Where is the common sense?


  388. Gee, what I’m hearing from some recent posts is that we have DEATH PANELS today.
    There are large areas of my state that won’t accept one of the biggest insurances in the country because the rates the insurance company pays the doctors is too low. Not surprisingly, this is one of the most expensive insurance companies. In some cases you have to go something like a hundred miles in order to find a participating provider. If you stay local but out of network, insurance hits you with a fat deductible.

    Many doctors are leaving their profession because it’s just getting too expensive to practice and it isn’t worth the hassle.


  389. too dam easy poolman ..too many hands in jar that you will not be able to get out


  390. If we all had single-payer, then doctors and hospitals could compete for our “business”. We could tell them nationally or at a state level, what a reasonable cost would be for the services they provided and they could accept that as a rate. Then we could be the biggest pool and get the best prices all around.

    Get the money lenders out of the health business! Always follow the money. It is always upstream. whenever you have to “pay before you play”.

    Problem solved. Next…

    😉 *wishful thinking*


  391. “Obama wants all medical information on a computer system because it would be possible to prevent all the fraud that goes on and takes a pretty good chunk of our health care dollars.”

    Respectfully…Puttin it all on the computer is not gonna keep it way No Obama.

    If Madoff can do what he did with stocks..don’t ya know there is probably someone out there doin it to all of us in health care.

    I know there is a big push for computers..The state even gave us the gift of a laptop for my wife to use at home….Pleeze she is doin good just to get her work done at the office and charts up to date to meet credentialling requirements at the hospital and at her state clinic.

    An as to tort reform..My wife has been the target of lawyers who set up billboards with pleas to patients..about “have you ever been treated here
    or there” then call 1-800 Millionaire.
    Thats another time and story.


  392. kitkatΔ pointed out
    “In today’s AARP magazine, it states that we in the US spend $7,290 per person annually in health care spending”
    It’s not just the insurance companies who get the extra. As Craig pointed out, the Doctors are also getting a bit. But the part that really (annoys is not strong enough, enrages is a bit too strong, can’t think of the right word) me is the theft of services. It’s not mentioned much but I did watch a program (can’t remember which one) about corruption in the health care industry. Like in every other system in this country, there are those who learn how to “work” the system. There are operations set up exclusively to milk the Medicare system. They offer auxiliary equipment to be paid for by Medicare. They set up a storefront, acquire patient lists (just like getting names and credit cards for stealing credit) and send bills to Medicare for services supposedly rendered. One woman had supposedly received two artificial arms. I know those don’t come cheap. If I have time, I’ll look for articles about this. I know of one person who lives locally who went to an incontinence clinic. It’s in the next town, they advertise on billboards. All they do is deal with incontinence in women. She went to them for a consultation. When she got the statement that Medicare apparently sends (just like my insurance co sent when I had my hip replaced), she saw they had billed Medicare for 2 procedures they never performed. Medicare must pay within 30 days. It doesn’t give them time to find out if the bill is valid. So the bad is on them for paying for fraudulent billing but the real bad is on the thieves who set up a system to take advantage of old people and of the government. A lot like Defense Dept paying $3,000 for a toilet seat.

    So is the problem our government that wants to do the right thing for us or is it those great “Americans” who feel it’s OK to cheat the government and make a nice living doing it? I haven’t looked into it yet, but I believe Obama wants all medical information on a computer system because it would be possible to prevent all the fraud that goes on and takes a pretty good chunk of our health care dollars.

    I read somewhere that tort reform will save something like 2-3%. Is suspect fraud prevention would save quite a bit more.


  393. AS for the Immigrants..I guess they will line up outside your house JESRI.

    I don’t know. Has anyone raised their hand and said oh please we want to spend the dollars for illegal immigrants health care.

    Health Care…A right or a privilege?
    Are Americans going across the border to Canada?
    I heard at one time they were.
    Can you get drugs cheaper over there?

    I’m sure there are a lot of heartbreaking stories of people who have been in the wrong place at the wrong time..and thus are in deep shit.

    Good God where does the end of the line go to for health care.

    I just cannot see how or why WE should have to pay for ..and thats either by a tax or fee health coverage for someone else who crawled thru a tunnel or swam a river to get here..and then demand health care. What about social security..should they get that as well for just being here?

    I don’t have the answer. If someone were bleeding on my front porch..yes I would treat them..but how far do we go? When does it end?


  394. OK jsri yours is bigger than mine.
    My social service may not equal yours but I think just jumped into the middle of a conversation I was having with someone else.

    Yea I know 4 hours plus a week should not get me the Mother Teresa award. That was not my point. So BIG WHOOP

    As for Insurance and Providers.

    Insurance companies bargain with hospitals and or Hospital corporations AND DOCTORS groups as to how much they will PAY for a certain procedure or code#.

    So yes we may have the best doctors yer darn tootin…
    But most of the time whats the first thing you get asked when you walk in the door?
    Do you have your insurance card?

    Now you have appeared for a meeting with the doctor.maybe a specialist .that is if YOUR GATEKEEPER the doctor you see for the common cold or for some women they choose the OB/GYN to be their main doctor/Gatekeeper.

    This gatekeeper who is most likely with a group of doctors who arranged with the insurance companies which doctors you could see. Most likely these doctors will all be under the same umbrella possibly even a hospital and they all have agreed how many visits you can get. That is before they have to go back and get the insurance companies to say yes or no to extensions to your service or procedures.

    So like my Psychiatrist wife in the mid 90’s was a child psychiatrist. She would hospitalize children that needed extended care. Back then kids would possibly be kept for three to six months. When my wife was warned that she was hospitalizing too much…she was then put under a microscope and for every referral to go in-patient a DOCTOR hired by the Insurance companies could TRUMP the decision by the care giver and say no to the hospitalization. Thus saving the insurance companies money. The average stay now if your lucky is 5-6 days to stabilize the kids then release them to their guardians.

    So my wife was blackballed by one of the largest insurance companies in the city we lived. They had the most people covered in the county, they being a Big Military provider of aircraft. Her patients then had to go elsewhere to seek help.
    What they got was the doctor who would play ball with the INSURANCE companies. Follow the RULES Doctor or we will find someone who will.

    I don’t know if I’ve made it clear enough ..
    but doctors and nurses have to use code numbers for every procedure. So they play the game and sometimes work the system just so they can provide a patient some health care. Because if they were to use the wrong number it might mean nope..we cannot see you today..You don’t meet the credentials for this code.

    I’ve tried to lay it out for you..but the doctors are very much controlled by the bottom line…it might even mean they can or can not get a bonus for the year if they have saved dollars on health care..they get whats left in the kitty.

    Thats why my wife got kicked out of being a provider for a certain insurance company. She was using too much of the pie that should have been left for the Doctors at the end of the year and then divided as a bonus.


  395. I think jsri hit on one of the areas where people seem to get confused. After watching Rep. Weiner on MSNBC discussing just this with Morning Joe, it makes me realize that most people think that the insurance companies provide something to the whole equation. When the reps were arguing the other night, the Republicans kept saying “The US has the best health care system in the world”. I think they are talking apples and oranges. We aren’t saying that there aren’t good doctors and excellent hospitals doing wonderful things to make people healthy. What we are saying is “why do we need the insurance companies to get that care to the American people?”

    In today’s AARP magazine, it states that we in the US spend $7,290 per person annually in health care spending — the next highest is Canada, at $3,595. Where is that extra money going? We know, into the insurance company’s profits.


  396. Craig:

    I don’t get it. I really don’t. After skimming your most recent posts I’m still puzzled about your concerns, but I know where you’re coming from, – Fox News. At one point you say everyone should have health insurance and in another you state that everyone should have healthcare (except immigrants). Do you really think that health insurance equates to health care? If so you are either misinformed or you choose to ignore the most salient issues, i.e., health care is the act of providing health services while insurance is a means to pay for it (unless you believe that the point of health insurance is to maximize the profits of the company by refusing to pay for services.).

    And your attempt to gather accolades for your tutoring is weak. I know people who spend more time per day covering what you claim for a week and do it without making a federal case of it.

    By the way, what is the solution to your “immigrant” problem? When immigrants get sick do we simply let them die? Your accusation that they use up our emergency room services is a sop to others who think like you. The fact is, immigrants are terrified of going to the emergency room if they are illegal for obvious reasons and if they are legal, the bills will fry their eyeballs because if they are working (most of the ones I know are), their jobs are usually menial and lowpaying.

    I know you have a low opinion of immigrants but let me cite a case for you. One of our grandsons has been bringing home a fellow HS senior who is an “immigrant” from Central America. His mother works 2 jobs and is seldom home. His father returned to Central America about 4 years ago and has not been heard of since that time. There is good reason to believe he might be dead. His mother is “legal” his father was a question mark. The boy is a brilliant student but is having trouble finding a college (public or private) that will accept him. Our son and daughter-in-law have been working with him on the problem but his citizenship question continues to come up. Oh BTW, he is considered to be a Mestizo which means that his ancestors were on this continent dating from pre-Columbian times, long before yours and my ancestors ever set foot here. So who should have a higher claim to citizenship? Just asking.

    If he gets sent back to his home country where his entire family has disappeared, he will probably meet the same fate as his father.


  397. Pelosi just wanted a win for her side of the didn’t matter to her in the end.
    She knows that whatever they send will be changed and in no way resemble what the Senate will pass..if they do.


  398. Would it have been better to vote against the House bill, considering the weak public option and this amendment? Is the approval of the House bill really a victory? Or even a step in the right direction? It’s a tough call. I hope as the Senate does their thing and the reconciliation process goes on that the results are better than what the House bill looks like right now. I’m discouraged today.


  399. Why are white men deciding reproductive rights of women? Here are some impacts to women.


  400. I wonder what the odd in Vegas are of passing a senate Health care bill by the end of the year?

    What is going to cause the senate to move it along?


  401. Rachel Maddow
    on Meet the Press

    Highlight Reel

    8) ~ Δ


  402. Health Insurance: Friday: She sprained her ankle on the job and over the weekend, the ankle ached. Her chest started hurting as well. She went to the emergency room and they said she was close to death – blood clots in the lungs/heart. She was in the hosp and sent home after a few days. It got worse. 3 weeks later, she was in the hosp for 2 weeks and then in a rehab facility. She was then put on a plane to have her sister/nurse get through it.

    She got the H1N1 virus and it hit her already weakened lungs. She passed away.

    The only reason she had health insurance was the sprain happened on the job. Off the job, she had no insurance. We need comprehensive health insurance for all.

    (There were also issues about less than adequate care the first month. She was not sent to another hospital more equipped to handle such cases, because of the insurance carrier.)


  403. I was just on the Immoral Minority blog checking out the Alaskan blogs and I read this story about lack of health insurance. It is an amazing story. We need a strong public option.


  404. Dear ladies,

    Despite the fact that adding mine to the close to five-hundredth comments may mean it doesn’t get much notice or weight, but I still felt the need to profess my dear gratitude for the part of yourselves that you make available for us on this site. Might everyone be so lucky as to have someone like you in their immediate social circle.

    Hope all are well.


  405. Tine, Lori, JuneaJoe,
    Thank you for the help. I must admit I am much like the deer in the headlights when I run into people like this. I am so suprised that any one in the “real world” actually believes this garbage that I am rendered speechless.

    I can count on one hand the actual encounters I have had with Republican Ditto heads. I guess I live a blessed life *sigh*.

    I did not have to take the walk, I just read the comments here on M&H and your responses to our house Repbublican’t, Craig. I am breathing normally again. It’s funny in a scary way! Kind of like waking up to find some one staring at you from outside your window, only to find it is one of the dogs begging to come back in! Gets your heart pumping, that is for sure. My pups did this to me recently when Dad let them out early one morning.

    Happy belated birthday Vgman.


  406. Mikat, these people are foaming at the mouth after the house passed that legislation the other night. I don’t think reason will penetrate their hardened hearts.

    I would smile and nod a lot and keep a happy song going on in my heart. If they are there professionally, I might say to them to please keep their opinions to themself and allow you to be able to fully concentrate on your work. That engaging in this type of discussion would be counterproductive and would not be fair to your employer.


  407. Thanks for asking, Delurker Girl.

    We had a scare over the weekend. Maria had/has suspected H1N1, which had improved on Th. and Fri…then she suddenly spiked a fever on Sat. Nurseline told us to hightail it to the ER.

    We did, but it turned out to be a false alarm. Maria’s vitals were all fine, and the triage nurse strongly suggested we’d be better off at home than waiting 4 hrs. in the ER lobby for a room and a doc to become available.

    I *think* she’s on the mend now. She’s back at preschool for 1/2 day today.


  408. Hey everyone! AKM posted this on her blog. I don’t know how many frequent mudflats, but this is worth taking a minute out from our busy schedules and only will cost a stamp and a card. I already had extra cards around like I’m sure many of you do. Please help Noah achieve his goal.

    “Christmas came early for Noah Biorkman this year, but under sad circumstances. Noah has terminal cancer, and may not make it to December 25, so his family decided to celebrate last weekend. He didn’t want toys or the normal things a 5-year old wants for Christmas because he can’t play with them. What he wants is to get more Christmas cards than anyone has ever gotten.


  409. I have been sprayed a few times – slow learner.

    But they are so cute.


  410. Tine–we call that look the Jewish Mother Fish Eye.


  411. Great answer, Tine. How is your illin’ household these days?

    Joe, good anaology w/ the skunk thing.


  412. Facts:
    -40+ million with no health insurance.
    (The tax breaks given to the top 1% of the US population would more than pay for health insurance for all.)
    -1700 people per day are losing health insurance.
    -When people are sick – the insurance company can drop them for pre-existing conditions or they can set limits on how much they will pay after the fact.
    -If nothing changes – Insurance costs are expected to raise over 100% within 3 or 4 years.

    -60% of bankrupcies are caused by medical bills, most of those people had medical insurance.

    however, It can be like wrestling with a skunk – expect to get sprayed.

    Tell your boss to tell the person to stop the noise is another option.


  413. I suggest calmly telling the painter, “You are welcome to your opinions, but please share them with someone else. I’m trying to work.”

    Then give her the Silent Sicilian Mother-in-Law Stare. I’ll send you a pic of my very own Sicilian MIL if you’d like to know how it looks. Shuts people up every time. 😉


  414. I would listen and basically let it go in one ear and out the other.

    It sounds like you would argue with a wall better.

    I would crank out a lot of work myself.

    I have an invisible sign on my forehead that said, “Stupid dumbass lies” which I flash as well. Only those who agree with me can see it but that can flash like crazy.

    Relax, go for a walk, work hard. Bad days make regular days seem great.


  415. The bottom line is it is either forward or status quo… we grow or die on the vine.

    IMHO forward we must go on ….. … I choose faith over fear….


  416. Mikat…… well the final bil hasn’t been passed….. so thy have no way of knowing how much it will cost… its all fear and smear… go outside take a walk around the block and tell them we will talk about it when we have a final bill…


  417. Tine, Lori, KitKat and all others,
    HELP, I have a Rush, Hannity, Beck spouting painter in my office this morning! She is spouting all the “Socialist, Marxist” garbage she can come up with. She claims that ObamaCare is going to cost her $14,00.00 a month for healthcare and that Obama is going to sign control of the United States over to the highest bidder at the Global warming meeting next month. That we are being “controlled” by Big Brother government.

    I live in Seattle, we are very Democratic here, my family have been Democrats for generations. I don’t normally run into these people in my “world”. You tend to start thinking that people are pretty normal and intelligent around here until Boom, you run into one of Beck’s followers.

    I get very “ANGRY” when I hear this garbage. I don’t think on my feet as fast as I would like, because I am too emotional. I also do not want a scene at work. Because I am at work I cannot go to any of the websites I feel might help with the “facts” to help educate this normally nice lady. Can anyone send me some quick facts and/or pointers?


  418. C’mon Senate! Get a bill approved that actually contains the stuff we want! The House bill sounds pretty watered down to me!

    While it would be best to take all the time in the world to get it right, there isn’t time to do that. Like an awesome marble sculpture, the first cuts are rough, then gragually smoothed until it’s wonderful.


  419. oops…LINK


  420. This is something that I missed or wasn’t reported in MSM.

    The Man Who Tried to Arrest Bush

    Dacajeweiah aka “Splitting the Sky” John Boncore

    Splitting the Sky founded an organization to unite all Indigenous Peoples into a great confederation called the League of Indigenous Sovereign Nations of the Western Hemisphere (LISN). In 1995 he was the Sun Dance Chief at Gustafsen Lake, British Columbia, during the Gustafsen Lake Standoff, which was precipitated by a rancher who attempted to evict the Sun Dancers from what he claimed was his property. The incident turned into a major protest against the occupation of unceded native land. Splitting the Sky was an outspoken critic of the government’s handling of the incident and was among those who raised the question of so-called Aboriginal Title under international law. Specifically, aboriginal title is enshrined under the Royal Proclamation of 1763, which is validated as an aboriginal right in section (35) of the Canadian constitution. With his wife Sandra Bruderer, whose Cree name translates to “She Keeps the Door”, he co-wrote a 653 page book.


  421. That would be three figure x 1,000


    six figure…..


  422. Poolman,
    Excess and corruption=Wood
    Speaking Out=Hammer

    Put all three together and now we have the boat a rockin’!

    Reminds me of the song from “Guys and Dolls”–
    Sit down! You’re rockin’ the boat!

    I’m afraid we have way too much of Craig’s experience happening in our civil government positions. The Supervisors want the budget to remain the same or get bigger and therefore, all positions must appear relevant, pertinant, and needed!

    Our local school superintendant is paid more than our governor.
    And my local teachers’ union president makes just over the three figure mark.

    Yeah. (Sigh)


  423. Poolman since when did Congress ever get a grasp of the KISS principle?
    That goes for the military and their procurement and development of new technologies as well.
    Remember that statement that Deep Throat made about the American Military Industrial Complex.
    Well it came true. And I was on the inside of one of the companies mentioned by name.

    Health Care will be the largest boondoggle for so many companies and new agencies that will grow like a computer virus.


  424. Yes Susan P..and Thanks for your concern.


  425. Craig….are your meds up to date?


  426. Hi gang and Poolman,

    A well-said analogy just now. I hope everyone gets the picture.

    Aloha! 🙂

    auntie Jean


  427. Craig, we still got to keep an eye on this health care bill as it comes out. And we definitely need to keep a close watch on these public servants. Corporations are still influencing and controlling much of the language and we must be diligent to comb over the wording of this legislation. I wish it was HR 676 which is only about 30 pages, but we got too many lawyers stroking this thing. That makes it tough to understand and adds to its length. That is the goal of many in power. I prefer the K.I.S.S. philosophy myself.

    Obama is trying to make it simpler and more transparent – the whole enchilada. He is, however, hoeing a row at a time rather than jumping on the Deere and plowing the whole north 40. It is a very overgrown field and some of those weeds have well established roots – more than what a little roundup might handle. He will need some farm help. He would prefer the American citizen be the first in line. And really, there should be plenty around nowadays. But are they willing to pick up a hoe? Everyone can’t drive the tractor. Short of that he will hire the legal alien. He will do what he needs to do to get the job done. The time-frame is strictly based on the help he gets and the severity of the climate he has to work in.

    If everyone was pitchin’ in instead of pitchin’ a fit, we might get us a fruitful harvest. Maybe in yours and my lifetimes.


  428. Why doesn’t Obama have a new CCA Corps that could repair national parks…have a CCA Corps that could also work for the country in various departments.

    We have so many white collar people out of work..what is going to be their life line in this
    stimulus package?

    There are no creative white collar jobs being posted,… are there?

    People going down week after week looking for jobs at the un-employment offices.

    I know when I was laid off in 2001 I found a job at the County Junior College that paid 21K..that was substantially down from my salary plus benefits of which I had been making for a defense contractor.

    But it had health insurance.
    And after I was hired………

    I found out that I worked probably 8 hours out of a week. The rest of the time I was just suppose to sit and wait for the phone to ring.

    When I did get creative and started a project on my own..I got slapped down by the
    People in PR at the Main offices.

    How dare I was to go without their permission and create something as a Public service announcement that was to encourage people to go to school.

    I had stepped out of bounds and on someone else’s turf. So there I was just sitting and taking the counties money, week after week.

    Oh and my title had “manager” in it.
    But I had no one working for me.


  429. I am glad to see you blogging again. No one says it quite like you two. I hope all is well.


  430. First of all Tammy Faye, You sure are one for using a short and sweet post. yep I’ve been called that..may have even by made by my wife.

    Well your description of things pretty sums up the situation.

    Before I get too much into this..I was at the airport a couple of weeks ago when I overheard a young girl talking about going abroad with a group that was going to give some health care, dig wells and well…she was in the Peace Corps.
    She was going to Africa. I have neighbors that send missionaries to Africa and Asia as well.

    It seems to me we had better start looking around here. I know there are children and people in the Appalachian area that need health care. And yet our missionaries and Peace Corps go around the world, when we have issues right here in the United States.

    Now as to your statements about immigrant care.

    Its interesting..but you hit on one of the Hot buttons that nobody wants to tackle. Immigrant health care.

    We already know that just getting health care for everyone..did not mean the Immigrants or those here illegally.

    I know we let them pick our fruit and perform manual labor that pretty much none of us would
    want to do.

    So we really have two problems
    1.They are here for work under the governments supervision.
    2. They are here completely illegally…and with families in tow.

    In Texas at one small border town recently, a
    Principle found out that bus loads of children were being let out to go to school. These kids were being brought across the border and here we are
    supplying an education for those that have not paid for it. He set up some kind of system to try and stop this situation. But here he is..trying to make ends meet in his small town just for the legal residents and students.

    Now it has also been released just yesterday that some 20 million dollars of “POT” plants had been discovered in East Texas. It seems now that the cartels want to grow it in Texas rather than have to traffic it across the border.

    We all know the situation south of our border.
    I wouldn’t want to live there.
    And look at California..they are broke.
    How do they even take care of the legal students they have? And yet any time some one stands up and says enough “they” protest about what it would be like if “they” were to strike and not work for a day…seems there was a Movie that depicted that.

    They..the immigrants can and do get health care by walking into emergency rooms. At least out here in west Texas.

    But I guess I’d like to see how this “health care for all Bill” is going to be implemented.
    If you don’t have insurance you will be billed by the government. Since Its mandatory to be covered right?

    I don’t know..I did not read the 1900 sum pages concerning the Bill and its implementation.

    But now the Senate will have a look at it and don’t they have to have a say about what it will and won’t cover?

    You brought up some other items which I had been thinking about.

    How many times do we see our law makers ,
    Representatives , assistants and such going to work for the BIG insurance, lobby firms and Health Care corporations after they have made their “back room” deals. Thats BOTH republicans and democrats who leave and then end up with Big time salaries.

    In the end..we will still have some time before a final Bill becomes we not?

    I have insurance thru my wife’s job.
    When she retires she is suppose to get health coverage for life under her current carrier. Me, I’m suppose to get half coverage. How much will we have to pay? I have no idea..but I assume
    we both will have to make some sort of co-payment. That combined with medicare or whatever is in existence at the time will constitute our care.

    Do you think we will still have medicare or will it revert to some sort of Health care for all service?

    Where I worked before I was severed on 911
    I could have gotten a pretty good medical coverage deal as a retiree..But the day I was laid off..I got 3 weeks of coverage for twenty years of work. And Cobra was my only alternative.
    That would have been somewhere in the area of 800-$900 dollars a month. As I stated earlier we went without hoping that we would not get sick.

    At least Obama will have some sort of Health Care Bill, that he can at least say he accomplished..Some thing that Bill and Hillary did not accomplish.

    But can you really call this BILL a cooperative effort?
    It only representative of a small half of the country..just a thin margin of votes that made it possible for Pelosi to continue to smile about.
    A “democratic” margin with a lot of arm twisting.
    God only knows what this Bill will finally cost?

    I’m still looking around for stimulus projects underway. If your a road contractor and in that construction field you can probably get a job.

    But here we sit with double digit numbers of people out of work. Not since 1983 have we had these numbers of people looking for work.

    Have a good evening..I need a drink.


  431. Craig is an Ass Hat. Just saying…


  432. Happy Sunday everyone. 😀

    Where the heck is Greytdog? It is a long time since she checked in. Everybody should at least check in, or we don’t know how much pie we should leave out. Just sayin….


  433. Well, you know how it goes. The next morning one has to pop all the balloons and rinse out the bottles. Pamela, as much as I’d like to celebrate all month–it’s only 24 hours and then back to work.

    I know we have had our disagreements. But I do appreciate how you have taken on the challenge of working with unique children. I noticed yesterday that you said you believed that health insurance was a right for all Americans.
    I agree. And I know that we have many illegal immigrants that have come through our borders and how to best solve that will take much debate as we move forward as a country. It’s not the first time. Decades and decades have been filled with the hopes and dreams of people coming to our country. Shouldn’t they have an option to health care as well? How we provide that opportunity is what’s on the table.
    And it’s not just the peace of mind for them. It’s also the ones who were pushed off the boat and left to flounder in a sea of uncertainty. That is a direct result of the high costs associated with the out of control insurance companies.
    Thank goodness we have taken this step towards providing a national health care option for our brothers and sisters.

    The “Obama Care” tactic didn’t work with me. I realized from the beginning that President Obama laid out clear goals and then gave the job to Congress to work out the details. Sounds like a leadership quality to me. After all, Congress’ number one job description is to legislate.

    The health care reform looming on the horizon is not a product of President Obama. It’s a direct result of the discussions and votes that come from a representative democracy.

    Many times in history, a president called on Congress to “get down to work” and solve an urgent crisis. Again, it’s leadership that gets the ball moving.

    Which presidents in our past 50 years actually wanted to see the health insurance industry reformed? Which presidents allowed the current problems to fester and go unresolved? Which members of Congress happily took the insurance lobbyists handouts? Which members of Congress knew in their hearts that this could never go on?

    I am so glad that we are finally tackling this national problem with a sense of urgency as never before. President Obama is doing the best he can with the mess he waded into.

    So often, many critics think that Democrats blindly follow the leader just because he is one of them. I disagree. I look at each decision, act, and spoken word and weigh them.

    Right now, I know in my heart that we would not have passed the bill in the House last night if Senator McCain had been elected.

    Have a good rest of the day everyone! Looking forward to the cheese cake tonight, Jean and Pamela.


  434. I love the way you think and put it out there. Hang in there and keep on keepin’ on.


  435. Poolman you are hot.


  436. Belated happy wishes to you vgmanΔ


  437. I agree..I don’t know when it happened. My wife gave birth..maybe had two days in hospital and then home.

    I guess the insurance companies along with them with-holding pmts for anything over what the COMPANY said they would pay for, allowed for this to be the norm.

    BIG INSURANCE probably wish the women would just continue to work,break water,squat,give birth and then hand the baby off so that they could continue working.


  438. Wanda Skykes on President Obama – Great!


  439. Craig, I can’t speak specifically to Singapore, but I can say a few things about why American may have a higher infant mortality rate. One of the things I noticed when living in Germany is the focus on preventive care and prenatal is no different. If you don’t have insurance here, you are very unlikely to get prenatal care. If you have insurance, you could be like my step-daughter – her insurance won’t cover maternity care. Maternity care includes prenatal care, postnatal care, and child birth. She is lucky that she has been able to work out a payment plan with her doctor so she can still get prenatal care – I imagine many just go without. Prenatal care can prevent so many problems down the road. I remember a study 20 years ago that said for every $1 spent in prenatal care, it saves roughly $10,000 in postnatal treatment for those preventable issues. When I had my daughter in Germany 20 years ago, there was a huge difference in how women were treated. In the US, after birth, both mom and child are usually home within 48 hours, sometimes 24. Here’s what Germans do: They spend at least a week in the hospital. This gives women the chance to recover and rest as well as learn from the nurses how to care for a child. Also, there are conditions that occur in infants that may not show up for 48 hours after birth, and they want to watch the newborns. It is a different way of looking at things. They would rather keep the women in the hospital and insure there are no issues than rush the mom and baby out like insurance companies in the US do because it “saves” money (at least initially).


  440. Happy Birthday, vgman! You are meant to celebrate for the entire month…. minimum!

    We do have something of a bill passed here, though what happened to the hundreds of millions of folks who were going to benefit???? Tis a drink of water (or watered down) that we have.

    I am making a dairy less, raw foods delicious and oh so nutritious cashew butter cheesecake with a peach chutney topping and a pecan, coconut, hemp seeds and dates crust….. can you dig it? It’s gonna be on the porch tonight so I do hope you enjoy a piece along with that cherry cheese cake Auntie Jean is bringing…. YUM!

    Good enough to stop those screams of frustration right in their tracks, Ms Deluker!



  441. Fox News:

    2009 Elections
    The End of an Era

    😉 ~ Δ ~ 8)


  442. I am sorry your husband is ill! So glad he is recovering. Hope you don’t have to watch too many news channels in the hospital much longer!


  443. Happy Birthday vgmanΔ !

    A little good news… TODAY!

    Well- it’s still Saturday here… for another hour.

    lots more work to do… but it’s a start.


  444. We have made a huge step in the right direction.
    Now, let’s get the Senate to follow along.

    My party is still going strong. We’re taking a break from Pictionary on “the big white chart paper”.

    Thanks for the happy birthday, everyone.
    The passage of the health bill in the House couldn’t have been a better present!


  445. Hi gang!!!!

    WHOOPEE!!! We THE PEOPLE have a leg up on Health Care with the passage of the House Bill. Sooner or later, democracy works!

    This evening with dinner, I holsted a glass of White Zin in honor.

    Tomorrow I will bake Apple Crisp, Cherry Cheese Cake and Lemon Meringue Pies for one and all here. Belly up to the table. We’re celebratin!!!!!

    Aloha! 🙂 Namaste! Lokahi! Shalom!

    Auntie Jean


  446. Happy belated Birthday vgman! Hope you had fun at your party.


  447. Hey hey happy birthday vgman!

    Whewww was beinning to wonder if we would ever see this day!!!!

    One small step….but I’ll take it!

    Not this time… not now…


  448. Craig, I am grateful that you have sacrificed your time to be with these children. It is a noble thing. Yes, just be honest with them and love them. We are not perfect, we can only try.

    BTW, are you in Lubbock? I spent 18 years there and know it well. Just curious…


  449. “The best gift you can give to these children is to tell them the truth, Craig. Then you will be a blessing to them.”

    The last thing I’m thinking is politics. These children hardly understand how to tell you to wipe their nose.
    Much less when they have to go potty.

    I go two days a week for 2 hours each day.

    They have their good days..and bad days.
    Attention span good or not even there.

    So I don’t even understand how you could ask me to tell them the truth?

    They are not my salvation. I’m just there to help them make their day better. Im not a teacher..I’m just the x-tra addition to their day two times a week. It gives them 20-30 minutes of one on one time to walk the halls and read the art work or read a book to them and help them sound out words.

    Phoebe likes to read..what difference is it to her if the book is upside down. I just make up the story
    and she loves to say , “The End”…and then closes the book.

    I open the door and the first words I utter are responded to by Phoebe, the little blind girl. She knows my voice as well as anyone else’s voice coming down the hall by name.

    I feel guilty when I cannot make my appointed day or time. They look forward to me as much as I do to them.

    I hope all of us have health care. It should be a right.
    Why does Singapore have the lowest child care deaths of all countries?
    I saw that on a poll the other night on NBC.
    Was just curious.


  450. HR 3962 Has Passed! Whew! 😀


  451. GOP now stands for Grandstand, Oppose and Pretend


  452. A health insurance salesman talks about the public option.

    a little humor


  453. woo hoo Rep Weiner!


  454. Just had a quick glance over all the posts and all I can say is BOY Margaret and Helen you can sure stir up the poop. If nothing else it gets people talking to one another and I hope you find it as entertaining as I do. I really don’t understand why some are stuck on SOLID they think we are computer deaf? I hope by the time you have read all these posts that Harold is on the mend and you too are resting and taking care of yourself as well.


  455. I haven’t seen Werner comment here for a long time. Does anyone know if he is OK? I miss him.


  456. Hi gang and Happy birthday, Vgman! It doesn’t hurt to have a clean bathroom once in a while, but if you have a guest who peek behind the shower curtain, well……..that’s not a very nice guest.

    The comments here the past few of days have covered a wide variety of subjects, starting with the recent violent tragedies. I don’t pretend to understand the why’s of horrific acts way, way beyond my comprehension. I have a safe secure life, and except for the usual vicissitudes of life, in my wildest imagination, I just can’t conceive of what could possibly motivate anyone to carry out deeds of such cruel inhumanity. You can call me naïve.

    I have been politically active most of my adult life. I had thought we were s-l-o-w-y crawling out of the primitive Stone Age into a Civilized World. Sad to say, we seem to still be struggling to realize our potential as cognitive and sentient beings.

    Perhaps we could all calm down a little. I think it is important to take care not to fall into the trap of using the same methods and tactics of fear and anger against the ‘other side’ that they are so adept at using and that we decry. Over the long haul, I still feel that empathy and love will triumph in the end.

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  457. The moral authority to get health care to people!

    We spend and spend on wars with no questions or comment but the Republicans want to deny health care to my friends and neighbors. It is just not right.


  458. But how can you ‘get the government out of my healthcare’ while adding the government to my healthcare????


  459. The republicans are never going to quit trying to make abortion illegal or harder to get. They are making this a wedge issue. I wish their noses would grow like pinocchio when they lie.

    Delurker Girl Δ, I did not notice what she was wearing. But was impressed she was able to stay within her 30 seconds alloted.


  460. Oh I see – this amendment will prohibit women from purchasing ANY insurance – not just a federal plan – that covers abortion. Sneaky stuff.


  461. Why do we need an amendment to prohibit federal funds for abortion when the suggested healthcare bill already doesn’t cover abortions? I really wonder what I’m missing.

    Also, what is Michelle Bachmann wearing?


  462. Listening to this debate on C-Span, the opposition keeps bringing up the same things over and over and over again. I can’t believe they haven’t got any real or new reasons to oppose this legislation.

    Same old rhetoric: “Government takeover of healthcare”, “rationed care”, “free abortions”, “increases taxes”, “free health care for illegals”, “increases premiums”, “decreases choices”, “Pelosi healthcare”, “bigger bureaucracy”, and blah, blah, blah, fear, fear, fear….

    “But ‘our’ bill (the republican version) is much better.” What version is that? Everything I have read coming from the republicans just gives insurance companies more power and allows them less regulation to let the “free market” work. WTF? Purchasing plans across state lines is supposed to help who? Haven’t we seen lately what the “free market” has given us in the lending industry?

    All this is giving me a headache. They don’t have a real plan. They don’t have any legitimate objections. A lot of noise with nothing to back it up. A lot of diversions and bs. They are trying to turn this into an abortion issue. They are just trying to divide and scare.


  463. I’m a dreamer, but I am hoping at least one Republican will tell the truth. I know, I know…. But one, is that too much to ask?



    Defazio from OR gives a good comparison of Dem and Rep Health plans.


  465. Will the people be forced to relinquish control? Seriously, do these people think the people have any control today? Really? Any at all? Any? C’mon… any?

    I’m hitting the tub.


  466. Craig said: I’m just afraid that someone will want to social engineer the system and thus water down my Health care insurance so that I will have to be responsible for someone who does not contribute.

    This is already happening with insurance companies now and will just get worse if something doesn’t happen.

    Delurker Girl Δ: the lies are getting to me too. I’m home by myself today and I’m finding myself shouting at the TV. My dog isn’t very happy with me 🙂


  467. “Though challenged..these kids don’t know it and are a blessing to me.”

    The best gift you can give to these children is to tell them the truth, Craig. Then you will be a blessing to them.

    Or should they always remain in the dark and looked on as a blessing to others?

    Extend your hand, Craig–and if it gets slapped, extend it again….and again….


  468. The thing that has stood out for me with the debate on CSPAN is the Republican fear (rant. manipulation. rage) that anyone would be able to decide what is covered, other than the patient or doctor. What fantasy world to they live in? The insurance CEO’s have that power and more today, and their sole motivation is profit. Bonuses depend on rejection of coverage we’re paying an outrageous fortune for. And what if no bearocrats had that power? Then they’d say it was a blank check! So useless, all of this.

    The lies about forced coverage, coverage of ‘illegals’ and coverage of abortion are driving me to screaming. The manipulation is making me nuts!


  469. I have not stood in the doorway blocking anyone from getting to their rightful chair or place at the table.

    But I have a right to have my opinion heard.
    I pay taxes. I have a vote.

    What is aggravating many at this site is that a lot of Americans woke up to the fact that liberal biased amendments were being crammed down our throats…
    and that the movement was to have the health care bill pass by a certain date..and now it has been slowed down to allow people to say wait a minute lets take a look at what your trying to pass ….This has infuriated many on the left because their agenda has been halted to allow for questions to be asked and the Bill to have opposition amass.

    I’m all for anyone and everyone of this country to have health insurance. Its just that I believe there are a lot of other items that are being inserted that should not be in the Bill.

    That is not saying I’m against health care. I just don’t believe that we should have an open door at our borders that say give us all your peoples of the world that need health care.

    I’m also not defeated as you suggest.
    I’m not alone and yet if I identify with a group that is not of your persuasion I’m suppose to be considered “SAD”?

    Because I side with one party or against another for their social changes and proposed economical wealth redistribution..I’m “SAD”…?

    Because I have an opinion and my square peg does not fit your round hole..I’m to be considered “SAD”..?

    I have told people here before..I volunteer at a socially underachieving school that is minority based.
    I tutor one 10 yo black boy that was born from a drug mother, one blind white 8 yo girl, a hispanic non verbal boy 7 yo and a white 7 yo boy with downs.

    I first was with a normal classroom. I was then asked if I would change to this classroom.

    I was a little hesitant but it has really been a great experience. Though challenged..these kids don’t know it and are a blessing to me.

    So I’m not SAD.
    I’m fortunate to have health care.
    I’m just afraid that someone will want to social engineer the system and thus water down my Health care insurance so that I will have to be responsible for someone who does not contribute.

    What gets me is…Anyone who will change this system..will not have it effect their insurance one bit. Thats the Senate and House…and President.


  470. Craig, it seems like you’re saying that since no one helped you when you were struggling without insurance that no one else should be helped. As I read your post and listen to the Republicans on CSPAN, it seems like empathy is something that is hugely lacking. They keep talking about personal responsibility, as if the health insurance crisis were somehow just the fault of those lazy, do-nothings who can’t be bothered to buy insurance and want the government to provide it for them. Just more of “I’ve got mine, screw you”.

    I have listened to some of the Dems finally say taking care of all is a moral imperative that we should be undertaking as a nation. I then hear the Repubs tell out-and-out lies. I wonder why, if someone were in the right, they need to lie so badly to make their point.

    BTW, Craig, stop SHOUTING at us. We’re more likely to read what you say if you present it respectfully.


  471. Unfortunately, yes, Craig–“we” will be blamed for a long time. I say we, because like you, I’m white Anglo-Saxon male.

    Our forefathers dug a hole so deep with the perpetration of slavery that we have only begun to notice there is a way out.

    You sound defeated. It’s not that hard to say I’m sorry. Even if you’re all alone in the room at this very moment. When we individually recognize our position among the collective nature of our society–only then can we begin to crawl out of the hole that we did not dig ourselves.

    WE are the Constitution. It’s not a paper document laying somewhere under lock and key.
    The words were thought and breathed and many of us still believe them. Amendments have followed over the years and I’m sure there will be amendments in the future.

    The point is…..we must decide what those amendments will be.

    Remember, Craig, you don’t know what the inside of “that” hole looks like. You were never tossed in. The hole we created was the reconciliation that must continue.

    Can you see the struggle for those who have been trying to get out? Do you have dirt under your nails from clawing at the sides?

    Lending a hand to help someone is not a sign of defeat. Don’t give up on the goodness that is part of our nature.

    You may have been hurt by others in the past.
    I understand. But will you expend your energy to increase that hurt exponentially? or work to decrease it?

    Have a piece of pie.


  472. Republicans are taking disgusting to a new level!

    With Bush as President, Democrats would have been run out of the country for this type of behavior.

    Craig: You are sad!!!!


  473. Craig–
    Your priority list needs an overhaul. What President Obama is trying to do is wipe the lens so we can all see a better, clearer, more focused view of the big picture. Beginning with trying to foster healing among the many diverse people of our nation.


    WE are MANY.

    WHO IS “WE”

    We are not all Craigs.
    Meeting with the Native leaders was a belated attempt to re-start a dialogue that WAY too many Craigs have tried to stuff under the couch pillows.
    Let’s bring it out, Craig. What parts of our American history are you most proud of?


    What parts of American history are you ashamed of?




    You can’t have it one way without recognizing there is another perspective for everything that happens.
    Will you, Craig, speak one on one with all those who have no health insurance? Will you comfort and aid them?




    Or are you only breathing for yourself? Care to show any sort of empathy?




  474. Happy b’day to yoooou, happy b’day to yooou, happy b’day dear vgman, happy birthday to yoooooou. Sung in my lilting alto. Just for you. I’ve finished the beginning of the leaf raking and will finish tomorrow. Now I’m going out on a date with my DH of 42 years. I’ll toast you with a glass of wine. Many happy returns of the day.


  475. Happy belated birthday, vgman! 🙂


  476. Poolman, you are right on target as usual. Until we can get everyone to see people as individuals and stop dehumanizing those not like themselves with labels and generalizations, we will continue to have hatred and violence.

    Unfortunately, that “us against them” mentality is alive and well in many parts of the country, including mine, and is getting in the way of much needed cooperation and progress.

    Locally, there is a meme that “the borough” is out to take over our small town and stifle our businesses. (Think “county” or “parish” outside Alaska.) They aren’t my BFF, but I am acquainted with most of the people who sit at the borough assembly table. None of them are the devil incarnate, most don’t want anything to do with my town, and they are all smart enough to realize that the success of our businesses flows into the borough coffers in the form of property tax. Those repeating the meme rarely have any specific examples or logical arguments to back up their positions, yet what they say often goes unchallenged and, unchallenged, passes for truth. When they do have valid concerns, they usually fail to present them, along with possible solutions, rationally before the governmental body with the power to amend the budget or applicable law.

    It is easy to be intellectually lazy and complain about “those people” or “the government” over coffee, in parking lot meetings or at rallies in the park, but it takes effort to see people, including our representatives, as individuals, and to be the fully participating good citizens our founding fathers must have envisioned when they crafted our form of government. Just voting doesn’t cut it, and I know many of us have heard from complainers that didn’t even bother to do that.

    End of rant.


  477. Gotta love Rep. Charlie Rangel, he’s getting in some good digs.


  478. AlaskaPi hve been wondering where you were. Glad to see you back! Iwill tell y ou that your pain will ease slowly. The day will c ome when you can talk about him and shed no tears, then the nnnnnet time you talk about y our nephew and the tears just flow. It has now been 22 years since I lost a son to a knifein his back. It is still not easy. Bless you.

    JuneauJoe- first time I have had the military described as you did. My oldest would have been one of those who wouldn’t have willingly obeyed ordered when he thought thhe orders made no sense. He lasted 31 days in the army before he couldn’t perform in basic training due to an inherited muscle disorder. AFter all th e tests he took, he was to go to Viet Nam as a medic!Since he couldn’t do the basic, he was discharged.

    To all of you who have written about Ft Hoo, thanks for putting everything so well. Thanks again to all of you.


  479. Thinking about some wine, while they whine.


  480. OMG! That bozo (my representative) Shadegg used his grandaughter as a prop! Mattie says…


  481. Vgman, Happy Birthday!!! Wishing you many many more.


  482. Hey Girl – hope you & Harold are home by now & using your own remote. I’ve been listening to C=Span congressional coverage. Wish they’s get the REAL vote done & WON !
    In MHO, passing the bill will result in three miracles:
    First, the health of Americans will improve immediately! How? It will reduce stress and anxiety, which not only can cause illness, but can prevent healing.
    Second: The unemployment rate will go down. WHY? People can now take jobs without worrying about whether or not the job offers health care.
    Third: The economy will improve. Why? People can go ahead and work two part time jobs – jobs that don’t offer insurance at all. But the two incomes can get folks out of the RED !!


  483. NOP, don’t you love how the Repubs keep going on and on about the deficit and the bad economy like the Dems have done it all on their own?


  484. Not really, they don’t like them anytime, they like millionaires and really like billionaires.


  485. Repubs are concerned for the unemployed except for when they need to go to the doctor


  486. Who knew the Repubs were so concerned about the unemployed? Too bad they don’t mind lying. Happy Birthday vgman!


  487. Thanks, everyone. For some reason, I woke up this morning and said, “Today is a good day, despite the drizzly, gray skies.”

    I even sang to the barista that made my coffee.

    I am now moving from the shredder to the bathroom(s) to begin cleaning. Why must guests peek behind the shower curtain?

    And….I’ll have to turn up the volume of the TV.
    C-Span on full throttle and Lysol in hand… we gooooooooo!


  488. Happy Birthday vgmanΔ!
    Thanks no one’s puppetΔ, I am watching on line.
    Trying not to yell to loud at the monitor when I call bullshit…


  489. making banana-chocolate chip muffiins — not pie, but hope you’ll enjoy them anyway Happy bday vgman!

    Also turning off the radio and putting on cspan


  490. Happy birthday!


  491. Thanks, NOP,
    For encouraging us to stay involved whenever we can, wherever we are.

    I’m getting ready to host a birthday party. My own. Yeah, I even went out this morning to buy my own cake. Anyways….

    Cleaning up and shredding papers at the moment.
    Of which some are health-related ones. Such a waste of resources. The whole health care industry needs a stern reprimand. All the energy put into those reports, documents, notices, etc.
    could be directed towards helping those truly in need.

    So, thanks for the heads up on staying involved.
    I will now turn off my stereo and watch C-SPAN healthcare debate.


  492. I’m watching the Healthcare debate on CSpan, are you?


  493. It’s possible…..but it will take a lot of effort to help those who can’t see beyond their own noses.
    Or think outside their own being.

    But continue we must. For if we give up, why should we continue to hope and dream?

    A mindset is formed by many forces. Actions, reactions, nurturings, negativity, external influences, and internal decisions. Over time, the result can lead one into a life of service to others or a life of take what I deserve.

    Those in positions of power, be it economic, militaristic, religious, or politcal all have a fundamental core from which they SHOULD make decisions.

    Responsibility. When others make decisions that affect hundreds, thousands, or millions–the mindset is where it begins.

    I’ve often said that good-heartedness is a quality in a person that should be held in high regard.

    Mean-spiritedness comes from a part of human nature we can’t explain. Evil acts. Despicable decisions. Greedy minds manipulate, force, and trample on others basic human rights to life, liberty and happiness.

    We stood together a year ago and listened to our future President state, “Not this time. Not now.”

    I’m behind anyone who leads with that mindset.
    I’m so disgusted with the greed and manipulations of generations past. Leaders who put their own comfort and the comfort of henchmen before those they serve.

    The owners of insurance companies? Good-hearted? What a laugh!

    The purveyors of fear-mongering? Good-hearted? What a laugh!

    We, who recognize the good in others, know who is mean-spirited.

    The time has come for all good people to rise and say with our President, “Not this time. Not now.”

    And…….not ever again.

    So, to those who follow lock-step down the path of corporate greed and waste–We say no more.

    To those who turn their head from the sight of a woman who falls off her chair in a hospital emergency waiting room and dies on the floor–We say no more.

    To those who maneuver their armies to crush the human spirits of others–We say no more.

    To those who bully our children on the bus, playground, and lunchrooms—We say no more.

    To those who allow abuse to continue in any form–We say no more.

    To those who flex their muscles to strike in anger–We say no more.

    No more. The good-hearted mindset sees the good in others because we know why we are here.

    It really comes down to a simple choice.
    Are you one who wants more hurt in this world?

    Or less? Or none?

    “Not now. Not this time” Never again.

    Good-hearted ones unite!


  494. Kitkat, I’ve been thinking a lot about the Ft. Hood tragedy also. I feel it was not really very different from the school shootings that have become part of our American life now. Last night Rachel Maddow also reported on two other shootings by disgruntled people. I see a terrible trend beginning.

    I also read.. From Yahoo News Nov 7, 2009
    “Multiple shooting incidents are not uncommon in the United States, where there are relatively lax gun controls.
    Fort Hood personnel have accounted for more suicides than any other Army post since the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, with 75 tallied through July of this year. ”

    I’m not sure what could be done about fixing this situation. I know my sister feels it’s mostly because of immigrants. I believe she picked up this idea from crazy emails and watching too much TV. Not just fox news, the others are also into fear mongering and blame spreading.


  495. I believe many in the military and in America today believe our enemy is Islam. That mindset is dangerous and wrong. It also contributed to the conflict going on in the mind of this shooter. It is never an excuse for murder, but if we truly want to get to the reason behind this tragedy, that is going to be a big part of it. If we continue to allow the hatred to brew and fester, we will see more of the same, IMO.


  496. Tragedy at Fort Hood:

    I was drafted into the military during Viet Nam . The military is a pretty brutal place for anyone who does not go with SOP. (Standard Operating Procedure.)

    As a white male, I found it stifling and difficult. I lasted 2 years and was glad to leave. You catch crap for the smallest things and you do as your superiors say, even if it makes no sense. (I have stories or you could read about Pat Tillman.)

    I would imagine a muslim in the military would be very difficult. I could easily see a soldier being ridiculed and made fun of for being different. (Personally, I was told monthly that my name was submitted to go to Viet Nam. I asked why too many times.)

    I am sure the killer heard many terrible stories about the wars. I had many friends come back from Nam telling horrendous stories. PTSD is a serious issue. In the military, many try to belittle PTSD and those who deal with it. I would think the problem would be amplified for a person of Muslim faith.

    He got a substandard review, which is easy if you piss of the wrong person. As I understand it, he had asked to be let out of his military contract but was denied. They instead put him on a list to go to a war he did not believe in.

    THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE KILLINGS AT FORT HOOD! No person can justify the shooting of others in such a way.

    I will then say that the military should have let him out of the military if he had asked for it. I would not be surprised to find the military did not try to deal with concerns about harassment from other soldiers. I think we will find the military screwed up too.

    The killings at Ft. Hood are a tragedy and they should not have happened but they did.

    I would also like to point out that because we have 2 wars going on, we have lowered the standards for entry into the military. That could allow some verbally brutal people in. Sadly, we have some people who pride themselves on getting under some other people’s skin.

    We need to learn from this tragedy.


  497. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 11/7/09

    Tragedy at Fort Hood



  498. As far as ‘good news…tomorrow’, I don’t watch alotta TV so occasionally I miss some real nuggets. Like this one:

    by Rob Thomas

    I hope it makes you smile like it did me. 🙂

    PEACE ~ Δ


  499. All teabaggers should read the book
    Three Cups of Tea

    Maybe, then, they’d see that life is more
    than for their own personal gain.

    And…when they’re finished reading…they would do well to write down the definition of give and the definition of take.


  500. No one forced this man to join the armed forces. He received a top notch education for free, made a good salary, and he didn’t go to war and ‘come back a changed man.’

    His prior writings included diatribes justifying the type of behavior that he later engaged in when he killed and wounded those people.

    People kidnap and kill little children. People snap and kill their own children. People become unhinged and plan to kill people who they hate. It’s always based in part on external forces.


  501. and may I just add…. IF it is something more than a lonely loser who snapped… and it is a person who managed to infiltrate our military, we will never know. I just hope they FIX it…


  502. When you wish upon a star
    Makes no difference who you are

    Rovian tactics disappear
    We don’t need your dose of fear

    Mean-spirited ones go away
    Don’t come back another day

    Feel the sun rise on everyone
    Erase the violence of a gun

    Lead with purpose true and strong
    Your example right or wrong?

    Good-hearted folk who live nearby
    Share the beauty of the sky

    Life is short in the universe
    Will you care or will you curse?

    Just a birthday wish to start my day
    Join the rhyme? Yes, you may!

    Peace on Earth
    Always believe in good will.


  503. good mornin kitkat….hope you are feeling well….

    My thoughts on the Fort Hood shooting. I feel it needs to be thoroughly investigated. We need to find and FIX what went wrong with this man and why he was allowed to continue in the capacity he served when he clearly was struggling with his “mission”. From what I can piece together it seems to me this was a man who was angry with life, in general, and then went searching for a way to express his anger and frustration.

    We failed one of our countries most precious resources. Now we need to figure out how this never happens again in honor of their memory.


  504. Been reading through all the comments and been pondering a few things.

    When Craig started talking about photo ops, all I could think of was Bush standing on the naval ship with the ‘Mission Accomplished’ sign behind him. I also think about the month long vacation he took, and how he seemed put out that people were interrupting his vacation. I remember thinking at the time, “I bet there are lots of folks out there who wish they had 2 weeks paid vacation, let alone a month”. While I wish President Obama were pushing health reform more and repealling DADT, at least I believe he is plugged in and can relate to what is happening in people’s lives. Never felt Bush had a clue what most people in the country experienced daily.

    And as I listen to the sad news from Ft. Hood, I can’t help but think if we hadn’t been taken in (literally) to these wars, this wouldn’t have happened. The reasons why the shooting occurred are complex, but it centers on wars/deployments/aggression against Muslims and I wonder how the culture of hate and fear has affected what happened. Anyone have any clear thoughts on this?

    And, lastly, as we approach the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, I am remembering. I lived there at that time and saw East Germany before the fall. The teabaggers and Michelle Bachmann at her “press conference” talk about freedom and “real” Americans and patriotism, and I know they have no real understanding of the words they are using. I want to ask them all “what do you mean?”, “Give me examples”. People spout these little sound bites, and there never seems to be any follow-up at all. How does healthcare reform take away their freedoms? I think they just mean it takes away some of their money. How about freedom from worry when we get sick? Doesn’t that fall into the part of the Preamble to the Constitution that mentions “insure domestic Tranquility … promote the General Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity”.


  505. *PAGE 1


  506. Fox Nation, conservative media launch political attack on Obama’s shooting remarks

    Right-wing media attack Obama’s introductory remarks

    Drudge headline: “Obama’s Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting


    Now we know where this nonsense started.. SURPRISE!

    This is a perfect example of Rovian politics. AGE 1….Throw anything against the wall and see if it sticks, even if it is something so ridiculous as the POTUS not acting somber enough after hearing of 13 murders on a military base. GOOD LORD!

    Confuse and distract… Smear and fear…

    I don’t blame them really.. it worked for 8 years…



  507. Juneau Joe and Easier-
    Thank you for your kind words…
    Losing anyone, young or old, is hard… losing someone to murder is horrendous.
    Losing someone you helped nurture into adulthood and celebrated triumphs and worked through defeats with for 31 years to a casual cold blooded spray of bullets…
    Well, I’m not past that part yet…

    But I am completely past all this foot dragging and tea bag wasting going on over health insurance.
    I’m past all this gobbeldy-gook of scaring people to bits about change so they spend enormous time and energy trying to build faulty logic towers about how it’s the un-insured person’s fault -without ever doing the simple math about how far folks’ dollars can go on stagnant wages and soaring insurance costs…let alone actual care.

    we ARE pretty dang lame…
    but we also have some good things going…

    I see some here everytime I poke my head in…

    And this won’t mean much to most folks here but it might to Juneau Joe…
    This is a breakthrough… much overdue for public view and scaring the right dang people to bits…

    The genie is out of the bottle and the trawlers won’t be able to stuff it back in…
    keep yer flippers wet…


  508. alaskapi said: “We, Americans, humans, have always drug our feet and been slow to change what we do, what we value, but we do do it… all the time.
    The world was going to end if we deprived employers of child labor, the world was going to end if women, blacks, you name em got the vote…
    We do it all the time.
    it’s time to do this…
    and keep the doors open to tweak and recraft as we go”.

    Well said! Fear is such an enemy! To all of us.

    I am so sorry about your nephew. It is just so incomprehensible, to imagine humans hunting other humans as if they were animals. A lost like that must be hearbreaking indeed.

    Yes, when we have like some of us do, it is just hard for us to put ourselves in other people’s places or walk in their shoes. We humans have become so lame, it is pitiful.


  509. I still have 1 more chocolate-pecan pie in the freezer. I’m going to bed, but here — you all help yourselves. After about 30 mins. on the porch, it’ll be ready to eat. 🙂


  510. Welcome, Mal 🙂


  511. Hello there I’m from Australia. Got interested in American politics sometime back and made the mistake of reading and commenting on one particular far right wing blog run by a woman who claimed to be a conservative who liked talking politics. It seems only with people who share her views. Never knew there were such people in the world! Your blog by comparison is an absolute joy to read. Lovely stuff. Stay well.


  512. Bill Moyers Journal tonight: had a condensed version of “THE GOOD SOLDIER” A movie to be released this week. It is about what war does to the soldiers who fought it and survived.
    A chilling example of why President Obama would be justified in not sending more of our young people to fight in Afghanistan.

    this is just a ten minute opening clip.


  513. Chocolate pie sounds wonderful. I keep visiting the sacks of Halloween candy my grandkids got last week, finding little treats to satisfy my sweet tooth.


  514. Natives: I am so pleased with President Obama for getting involved with native issues.

    I spend 6 months in a village in the Lower Yukon River – you cannot imagine what a wonderful , but ignored the YuPik people are.

    It was 30 below zero generally and a warm day was zero. I was there from Jan – June. The Yukon River was frozen until May 25. Most natives did not have plumbing in the house. Imagine using an outhouse at 30 below zero. Those with water in the house were fortunate. Even those with water did not have a shower or bath in most cases. I was in a Tuff Shed recently and it was built better than many of the houses in the village.

    People live off of salmon and moose. Last year, the salmon did not run and many people came close to starving. It was people from blogs who sent food to them so they would have food to eat and diapers for their kids.

    They paid $8.50 for gas and home heating oil last winter. The winter before: gas and heating oil was $6.50 a gallon. Can you imagine the uproar if gas was $6.50 or $8.50 a gallon in the lower 48? Something would be done for whites but do nothing for natives.

    As a white person, I had water, shower, indoor plumbing, and ample heat. My students were not so lucky.

    President Obama had some of his people go to a village and see what life is like in a village. They felt something had to be done for some wonderful people and I agree! I think President Obama is doing a great thing by thrusting himself into a long ignored issue.

    You might even look at the By-catch issue which ends up taking salmon away from starving villagers.


  515. Oops. Near the end of my last post, my fingers were flying across the keyboard WAY too fast.
    Sorry about the double post.

    Is there any chocolate pie tonight?


  516. A lot of opinions flying around the parlor tonight!

    you make so much sense. Thanks.

    Your priority list needs an overhaul. What President Obama is trying to do is wipe the lens so we can all see a better, clearer, more focused view of the big picture. Beginning with trying to foster healing among the many diverse people of our nation. WE are MANY. We are not all Craigs.
    Meeting with the Native leaders was a belated attempt to re-start a dialogue that WAY too many Craigs have tried to stuff under the couch pillows.
    Let’s bring it out, Craig. What parts of our American history are you most proud of? What parts of American history are you ashamed of?
    You can’t have it one way without recognizing there is another perspective for everything that happens.
    Will you, Craig, speak one on one with all those who have no health insurance? Will you comfort and aid them? Will you DO YOUR PART TO BRING OUR NATION TOGETHER?

    Or are you only breathing for yourself? Care to show any sort of empathy?


  517. A lot of opinions flying around the parlor tonight!

    you make so much sense. Thanks.

    Your priority list needs an overhaul. What President Obama is trying to do is wipe the lens so we can all see a better, clearer, more focused view of the big picture. Beginning with trying to foster healing among the many diverse people of our nation. WE are MANY. We are not all Craigs.
    Meeting with the Native leaders was a belated attempt to re-start a dialogue that WAY too many Craigs have tried to stuff under the couch pillows.
    Let’s bring it out, Craig. What parts of our American history are you most proud of? What parts of American history are you ashamed of?
    You can’t have it one way without recognizing their another perspective for everything that happens.
    Will you, Craig, speak one on one with all those who have no health insurance? Will you comfort and aid them? Will you DO YOUR PART


  518. A lot of people haven’t trusted government since we saw our fellow citizens huddled in unsanitary conditions in 100 degree plus heat without any liquids for days while Bush wacked weeds and ate birthday cake with John McCain. Often a week or more went by when we neither saw nor heard from the President, only to have him pop up riding his bike on a weekday in a Maryland park when the airspace over the Whitehouse was accidentally breached and the entire Whitehouse was evacuated. I am glad we now have a President who can lead a balanced life and still do his job.


  519. I hope better late than never; Craig, I’m really, really sorry you see honoring the dead from the Ft Hood tragedy as a F’ING PHOTO OP. Where are your morals, man? A PHOTO OP. No, he was honoring the dead.

    My take, on the other hand, was along the lines of “those who live by the sword will die by the sword.” If you pack more than 33,000 young adrenaline pumped almost adult people in a small town, then teach them how to effectively kill other people, and then encourage them to leave all they are comfortable with, their families, their entire lives, to send them to a place where everything seems a bit upside down to them, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN. They don’t come back from war unchanged. And they don’t go out to kill others, whether they be “gooks” or “commies” or “slants” or whatever, and remain unchanged.


  520. AlaskaPi

    I am sorry to hear about your nephew. That is terrible. Losing someone is hard. Losing someone young is even more difficult.

    Health Insurance – I have it but I see so many who do not. I just took someone with the flu to Urgent Care and it cost $200.00. This is a poor college student. I just got my teeth cleaned and it was $275.00 but I only pay $30.00. My guess is that those in Congress have better insurance than I do by the way.

    Thanks for coming back to M&H. Your voice is always great!


  521. Whirled, that is how I fall asleep every night! Crazy fatigue. 😀 I love the irony…

    No one said Freedom was pretty


  522. CraigΔ-
    Before you go off on a toot about government- be it federal, state, or whatever- be it whatever branch you want- being unable to fix big things like Social Security…
    Remember the greed and speed folks from the business world who brought us Enron, junk bonds and the collapses they brought, and the bubbles they love so much… Silicon Valley… housing…

    There’s no clean hands here neighbor. None.
    We have a lot of big messes all over the place… not just in government.
    Could be it’s a human thing we need to work on?

    The health care thing is stupid. We have had every chance , since 1975 (?) since Nixon first said universal healthcare out loud in public to study what does and doesn’t work in places where it is in place, we have had numerous chances to stave off the worst excesses and nasties of the insurance industry time and time again…
    And we always fall prey to some rendition of fear based inertia…

    So now what we have is broken.
    Has been broken by any measure of reliability, availability, etc that is known –
    for a long time…
    I’m almost to the point of saying who-cares- just-do-something!
    Almost, not quite.
    but I moved, ages ago, from the safe patch you want to hang onto…
    We, Americans, humans, have always drug our feet and been slow to change what we do, what we value, but we do do it… all the time.
    The world was going to end if we deprived employers of child labor, the world was going to end if women, blacks, you name em got the vote…
    We do it all the time.
    it’s time to do this…
    and keep the doors open to tweak and recraft as we go …
    And get real about all the other messes we have going too…
    public AND private.

    My one and only nephew was murdered in a drive-by shooting, wrong place, wrong time, this year – on my 55th birthday.
    He survived long enough to be taken to a hospital where he died.
    Thirty-one years old… leaves a family, had a small business. Spent his summers in my home as a kid…the pain in my heart still overwhelms me.
    The sickening but real irony is that IF he had survived, he would have lost everything due to medical costs. Everything.
    He worked his tail off but is considered by those who want all to be safe as an aberration in their insurance lensed eyes…
    He provided for his family but didn’t make enough to be able to afford health insurance for himself…
    So he threatened their stupid made-up system.
    Me Too.
    Millions of us…
    And you- WE haven’t been safe for years… and most of us are chugging along as best we can…
    Damn country can too!
    Time is now.


  523. Watch it Poolman,

    You might get Crazy Fatigue!

    “Sometimes the sheer overwhelming magnitude of the RW lunacy is more than the human mind can stand.”

    8) ~ Δ


  524. “But according to one of the fighter pilots, it would have done no good to catch up to one of the hijacked planes before it landed in a murderous explosion at the next population center. The only person with the authority to order the plane to be shot down, noted the pilot, was the President, who was still reading to schoolchildren.”

    Craig, It would be more believable that you had an interest in honest debate if you at least read the article in the link.


  525. CraigΔ –
    No- the shoulda-couldas don’t suffice. The invitation to me to pass on rightness or wrongness of a different way of it all having happened makes no sense.

    The President did fine.

    You don’t like how he did it. Fine

    That you think it indicative of anything beyond it not being your order of preference of priority is silly…

    Puffing yourself up over whether the President slighted the gravity of the situation by greeting people in the room in a warm and friendly way before speaking of the tragedy… ?

    This is reaching for something to gripe about, neighbor.

    So is your anecdotal , as opposed to scientific, study of photo-ops available and used by the Prez…

    If you really want to worry about something the Prez has done I urge you to come with me and study his choice to head NOAA. We are very worried out here in the west, esp, the far north, that Dr Lubchenko is not minding the Magnusson-Stevens Act, AK CDQs, the Pacific Salmon Treaty and other fisheries issues of importance with an eye to reality…

    Do I think the Prez is vile and irredeemable because of that one act- this appointment- ?
    And it has the potential to do considerable harm…

    Get over the timing thingy… you will get lost in details which don’t matter…
    The President did what we expect of him.
    I didn’t try to second guess the last Prez over the first speeches, timing or otherwise, after 9/11…

    Wasn’t til he made up a threat in Iraq and took us there that I called foul…


  526. Perpetual. Predictable. Irrelevant.

    Differeing opinion + articulate + friendly = interesting

    Parroting pox news + unoriginal + rude = irrelevant


  527. And so Poolman where did you want the President to go..when we did not know how many attackers there were or if there more targets.

    Its called logistics and planning. Who is going to the war room. Where were all the national security people..Things and people needed to be accounted for.

    I just don’t think you can get up run to your jet which had to be fueled and serviced for a precise mission. You just don’t go out put the keys in and charge off down the freeway.

    I’m sure it was not as well planned as Obama’s night out on the town in New York for when he and Michelle had a date night out.


  528. First thanks alaskapi for taking the time to respond. I don’t need the scratch behind the ear or the inattention I get, as to when the say “Scroll baby scroll”..Now thats a way to discuss issues or comments. Doesn’t bother me.

    Its amazing though. I don’t beleieve I have called anyone names here..but someone will dig up a post from somewhere.

    Oh yep..I’m the Troll..the “designated troll”.

    Crap, all these people can do here is debunk Faux or FOX news.

    But what’s so funny is that it seems that almost all watch FOX..
    NO ones twisting their arm Or taken their remote away.

    Yep alaskapi ..They have sought to denigrate me cause I haven’t caused enough crap..I don’t like name calling..It so puerile as some would say.
    Its easier to just ignore me..that way they do not have to answer legitimate questions.

    Shit I don’t need their pats on my back or acknowledgment.

    And as to the comment about
    “I’m sure there is nothing that Obama can do that is right in your eyes.”
    ..Well he could resign or start telling the truth about the real cost of the proposed health care bill.

    “The Humpty-Dumpty rule is in effect here…
    It’s in such shards nothing is going to fix it .
    We have to do something different.
    It scares the hell out of all of us…
    so, we’re all in it together…”

    And so the same people who cannot fix social security or the postal system are going to fis the system with thousands of pages of stuff?
    Have you seen how many GRANT proposals there are?
    Thats nothing more than giving someone a check to say here go out there and see if your idea will work and then come back in 1,2 or three years and report as to whether it worked or not.

    Yep we’re in it together..but to try and discuss it here with anyone on this blog’s our way or the highway mentality.


  529. Craig, I don’t know where you get your info, but it ain’t very accurate. Trust me, I’ve been all over this 9-11 stuff.

    “What we do know is that Bush continued to read to the children and pose for the cameras long after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon, the White House, the Secret Service and Canada’s Strategic Command were all aware that three jetliners had been hijacked. The President’s entourage hung around a full fifty minutes after CNN broadcast the news of the first crash.”


  530. Well, I thought President Obama’s demeanor was curious myself. I don’t think it’s a big deal, but all the same he seemed oddly lighthearted. He transitioned smoothly enough, but I was a bit heartsick all day yesterday.


  531. alaskapi and Poolman…

    What would have been wrong with first acknowledging the tragedy first with a silent prayer
    rather than all the hey there HI there from the podium of the native peoples..THEY were not going anywhere.

    His timing is just way off.


  532. I called it..I knew he could not stand to stay away from a photo op.


  533. Poolman..Oh what?
    an hour my ass!
    “Bush continued talking with kids in a classroom for almost an hour after learning of the planes hitting the twin towers before addressing the public.”

    Everybody watched Bush live and you say an hour??


  534. Another shooting today, in Orlando, FL.

    President Obama is going to attend a memorial for the Ft Hood victims. This act of compassion and patriotism will be criticized, though I doubt it would be better if Mr. President were at Camp David or a Texas ranch. It wouldn’t even be better if he were personally waterboarding nazi gay black muslim terrorists. Even waterboarding himself wouldn’t be good enough. The perpetual and predictable criticisms are getting more irrelevant by the day.


  535. CraigΔ-
    Since you are not a nasty troll I don’t feel any need to ignore you…or put out rat bait.
    Nor do I think Helen and Margaret have ever expressly asked folks to keep to the so-called etiquette of ignoring trolls as it is presumed they simply derail whatever is going on…
    Running therough a couple times a week I don’t see you derailing anything… though I think an argument could be made that you are responsible for a number of folks being sure to take their blood pressure meds faithfully…
    Nasty sickening trolls haven’t shown up here in months but pot-stirrer, smarmy pseudo-polite demi-trolls like you have been tolerated because of your social manners… least til folks can’t stand it anymore.

    This post is about hope for better news… tomorrow.
    For all of us of Alaska Native heritage a piece of that good news came to fruit yesterday…albeit as a tragedy elsewhere was unfolding.
    To have President Obama directly address and approach Native leaders from across the country is HUGE…
    Poolman was onto that right away…you missed it?

    That he had to deliver the sad news and condolences for the tragedy at Fort Hood in the middle of a long scheduled event and that he DID it is what is important…
    Take your stinko op-ed piece, about what-the-prez-shoulda-coulda done , masquerading as news and stuff it.
    We all got sick to our stomach last fall when Mr McCain ran around suspending his campaign and all that silliness to appear fully engaged in the terrible news about the economy…

    And stuff your gobbeldy-gook about pretending to care about seniors and health insurance reform.
    The tone is all wrong… the one you have adopted of concern… you sound more and more like our blathering-bimbo- gone-gov SP and her sky-will-fall death panel claptrap all wrapped up in a package pretending to care about her poor child and elderly parents.

    What we have for access to health care- insurance, decision making, sheer $ cost to this country ALREADY is broken.
    Get over it.
    The Humpty-Dumpty rule is in effect here…
    It’s in such shards nothing is going to fix it .
    We have to do something different.
    It scares the hell out of all of us…
    so, we’re all in it together…
    get aboard or get dropped at the next corner…
    We ARE going to work on changing this mess…
    Donna- always glad to see you keeping an eye on that Orly twit… Here’s hoping she does get disbarred .
    lori- Your call out reminder for us all to get and stay engaged was heard- here-loud and clear.
    I have been scarce here for months as I have found many, many ways to work to try to make a difference.
    They are mostly Alaska-centric issues but of deep importance to me.
    Some work has borne some small fruit, some has been discouraging, all is important.


  536. Goes without saying Delurker Girl, no medicare, no medicaid, nothing for them or their families.


  537. I am rarely certain of anything–but I am quite sure that she’ll be disbarred. She could have skated with a reprimand for some of this stuff but it’ll be the collective impact of it all and she’ll pull the same crap with the bar (claiming they are doing Obama’s bidding, etc.).


  538. Serious piece of work that Orly woman is… have you noticed Fox doesn’t cover her? Apparently they ain’t zactly proud of that nut job. Weird, as I didn’t think they had any standards at all.


  539. Good afternoon, Delurker: Orly is getting ready to file a motion for reconsideration of the dismissal of the Keyes case. She preens that she is the only lawyer with the “courage, integrity, and strength of character” to pursue the President’s eligibility.


  540. no one’s puppet, add

    … and your medicare


  541. Poolman–have I told you lately that I love you?


  542. Think healthcare for all is a bad idea? Prove it; voluntarily give up your health insurance!


  543. Craig, I don’t know what purpose you serve here other than to fling crap like every monkey I have ever encountered. I will probably get flack for addressing your rants, but so be it.

    Yesterday was a meeting with representatives of the native peoples of this nation. Something that hasn’t been done in 15 years. People the last administration ignored. A people that have been greatly discriminated against since this nation was founded. A day of for reconciliation and the beginning of healing. A historic event.

    The president was very sincere and honorable in his acknowledgement of the situation in Texas and expressed his grief and concern. Was he supposed to cancel his day because of this tragedy?

    Bush continued talking with kids in a classroom for almost an hour after learning of the planes hitting the twin towers before addressing the public.

    You got to start getting your news from a more reliable source, if you really want to learn. Or, as others would suggest, go over to a right wing blog to comment where you can be in agreement with the other Fox fans. I’m sure there is nothing that Obama can do that is right in your eyes.


  544. Whirled Peas, I saw that clip on TV and thought of you all here. Jon’s Beck impression was dead on!


  545. John Boner reads the constitution… declaration – whatever.

    Boner = Bonehead


  546. Washington approves Gay Rights


  547. Even an NBC affiliated news outlet in CHICAGO NOTED our Presidents attitude and his mental sharpness when it comes to what’s
    IMPORTANT…and how to react in times of crisis.
    President Bush’s response to 911 was more appropriate than Obama at a party last night after the horror at Fort Hood.

    “President Obama didn’t wait long after Tuesday’s devastating elections to give critics another reason to question his leadership, but this time the subject matter was more grim than a pair of governorships.
    After news broke out of the shooting at the Fort Hood Army post in Texas, the nation watched in horror as the toll of dead and injured climbed. The White House was notified immediately and by late afternoon, word went out that the president would speak about the incident prior to a previously scheduled appearance. At about 5 p.m., cable stations went to the president. The situation called for not only his trademark eloquence, but also grace and perspective.
    But instead of a somber chief executive offering reassuring words and expressions of sympathy and compassion, viewers saw a wildly disconnected and inappropriately light president making introductory remarks. At the event, a Tribal Nations Conference hosted by the Department of Interior’s Bureau of Indian affairs, the president thanked various staffers and offered a “shout-out” to “Dr. Joe Medicine Crow — that Congressional Medal of Honor winner.” Three minutes in, the president spoke about the shooting, in measured and appropriate terms. Who is advising him?
    Anyone at home aware of the major news story of the previous hours had to have been stunned. An incident like this requires a scrapping of the early light banter. The president should apologize for the tone of his remarks, explain what has happened, express sympathy for those slain and appeal for calm and patience.”


  548. I know its coming..
    The photo op

    He won’t be able to resist the opportunity to come to Texas and be seen with the wounded warriors and or the funerals…
    Its just too good of a photo op..
    Plus it gets him out of Washington again.

    Better than those mid night photo Ops of him saluting the caskets coming home at Dover.

    He couldn’t have just gone and have had it announced that he was there…he needed the proof for Gibbs and associates.


  549. AARP and the AMA have sold out.
    Everyone has already figured out
    that they sold out .

    Americans of age can and do figure out what organizations push are sometimes not the best deal for them.
    And as for the AMA..It’s just another organization that cannot speak for all of the thousands of Doctors.

    Its like OBama pulling together his little rose garden party for all the doctors a couple weeks ago. Seems some showed up with no white coats.

    Can’t have that for a photo op. So Obama had plenty to hand out if you forgot yours.

    I say BULLSHIT..

    And I’m sure Margaret listens to her heart and Helen rather than AARP as to what they are going to do politically..or else this blog is lost.


  550. I found this article interesting. Watered down health care.


  551. Whirled Peas Δ, Most excellent Jon Stewart clip. He’s got Beck down! Very funny. 😆


  552. Oh it is so good to read your post, and your spot-on observations made me laugh as usual.

    My best wishes to you and Harold for a quick recovery! The “Fox News trapped in a hospital” must be AWFUL; I had a 120-mile ambulance ride about 8 years ago and the ambulance drivers had Rush L. playing on the radio. I was hooked up to a transfusion and I told the guys “I’m not really sure I am going to make it here, and I do NOT want my last moments spent listening to Rush!”. They were lovely, and changed the station. =)
    Have a lovely Fox-free day!


  553. Jon Stewart:

    Six Degrees of Glenn
    Beck’s Internal Organs

    8) ~ Δ


  554. Irony, Hypocrisy &
    Instant Karma Alert!

    Just Say No…

    …to Socialized Medicine!




  555. Tine. Sorry to hear about your household’s continued battle with that nasty stuff! I remember the days!!!! Fondly?? yeah right..LOL

    Well look at the bright side … at least they won’t have it for Christmas! ???

    Thank you for fighting the good fight.

    Vgman, what a great school song! Kinda sends shivers down my leg ala Chris Mathews….;-) You sound like a wonderful person that is committed to their career! Thank you for doing your part.

    Sending lots of yellow to our men and women in the armed forces. Who would have thought they would have to worry about the enemy within? I lived near Fort Hood for 11 years and have many friends that work on the base and many that have gone through the base on their way to foreign soil. My heart goes out to them all. xoxo



  556. I know many of you receive these e-mails but for those of you who do not here ya go. There are some takeaway lessons we progressives need to learn from tuesday’s election.

    Dear lori,

    The results of Tuesday’s elections in Maine, New Jersey, New York, Virginia and Washington were a mixed bag but there are some clear lessons we can learn.

    Voters rejected right-wing radicalism.
    Democrats who fail to stand up for Democratic and progressive principles fail in elections.
    The Right’s lies still work.
    Despite the stinging loss for marriage equality in Maine, evidence elsewhere shows voters moving towards support of equality for all Americans.
    The Far Right strengthened its grip on the Republican Party.
    We have a lot of work to do to educate people, expose right-wing lies and counter the resurgent Right.
    The scattered results of yesterday’s elections were not a referendum on President Obama and his policies.
    Keep reading for a recap of Tuesday’s results and more on these important lessons.

    The Democratic candidate for governor in Virginia did everything he could to ensure that progressives stay home on Election Day (like saying that as governor, he would opt Virginia out of the health care “public option”). So it comes as no shock that he lost to an ultraconservative Republican who, despite being a product of Pat Robertson’s Regent University and having a history of radical views, effectively portrayed himself as mainstream, barely even a Republican never mind a right-wing ideologue.

    In New Jersey, embattled Governor Jon Corzine was unsuccessful in defending his incumbency against many of the problems and challenges that his state has faced.

    In Maine, the still-painful wound from last year’s passage of Proposition 8 in California was reopened when a majority voted to repeal legislature-passed marriage equality, relegating members of same-sex couples to second-class citizens. But in Washington, voters reaffirmed the State’s domestic partnership law, protecting the rights of same-sex couples. And some smaller, but nonetheless important, victories for equality were won. In Kalamazoo, MI, an anti-discrimination ordinance was passed and openly gay candidates won local races in several good-sized cities around the country.

    And in the much-watched special election in New York’s 23rd Congressional District, which has had constant Republican representation going back to the 19th century, Democrat Bill Owens beat Conservative Party candidate and unabashed right-wing extremist, Doug Hoffman. The Republican candidate had to drop out of the race because her views were too moderate for national Republican leaders like Sarah Palin and Tim Pawlenty, and opinion leaders like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh (not to mention right-wing groups like the Club for Growth which dumped $1 million into the race to help Hoffman).

    The takeaways:

    Voters rejected right-wing radicalism when it was on full display by the “tea bagger” candidate — supported by the likes of Beck, Limbaugh and Palin — in the NY-23 special election. Republican statewide candidates in Virginia were certainly representative of the Religious Right, but they successfully masked that fact, running very non-partisan, non-ideological campaigns in what seemed more like a personality contest than a critical election based on the issues. However, the Republican victory can also be attributed to the Democratic gubernatorial candidate’s conservatism and unwillingness to stand up for progressive values. The campaign was not effective on many levels, but the progressive base was alienated to say the least… which brings us to the next lesson….

    Democrats need to stand up for Democratic and progressive principles. Values on the ballot drive voters to the polls, and this is particularly important in off-year and mid-term elections where base turnout is the name of the game.
    With regard to the fight for LGBT equality, we can see some very specific trends.

    The Right’s lies still work. In Maine, the same ridiculous scare tactics and outright lies the Right used in the California to pass Proposition 8 last year worked again.

    Voters want to support equality for all Americans, although the Right is still effective and misleading people about the marriage issue. We saw this in Washington State, as well as in: Chapel Hill, NC, which elected a gay mayor; Houston, TX (America’s fourth largest city), where the leading candidate for mayor in the runoff election is openly gay; Kalamazoo, MI, which voted to protect LGBT people from discrimination; and more localities around the country.

    Much work is needed to expose the Right’s fear-mongering lies AND to educate the public about why civil marriage is the only true measure of equality for same-sex couples.
    And, finally, it’s worth mentioning that the scattered results of yesterday’s elections were not a referendum on President Obama. In fact, Obama enjoys very high approval ratings in both Virginia and New Jersey, well above the national average and well above the percentages he achieved in his election last year.

    You can read a somewhat more detailed analysis of this week’s election results here.

    Thank you for your continued support for People For the American Way’s work to expose and counter the Right.

    — Michael B. Keegan, President


  557. Poolman,
    My first students from ’87 would be 32 years old now. Over the years, there have always been a few that look like presidential material and I always say to them, “If you’re looking for a Sec’y of Education…….”


  558. vgmanΔ, that’s pretty cool. I see your Secretary of the Interior is ready to use his power to rule over others. They learn early! I bet your “legislature” acts more mature than what we have now. This is a very good exercise you are performing, one that will make a significant impact on those young minds. I wonder if any of those students will go on to participate in our political system. That would be awesome.


  559. Whirled Peas,
    Thanks for the message in photos. Those four candid shots do speak volumes about where we are headed as a society. There are those that want to be divided and those that want to work together.

    “It starts with someone throwing a stone in a pond”

    Our school song (elementary school) is titled,
    “It Starts With Me”
    I always enjoy hearing 500 kids singing this song at the end of our assemblies.
    Here are the words…………

    “We’re changing the world, one person at a time.
    We’re making it better don’t you see?
    We’re changing the world, one person at a time.
    The very first person is me!

    For I know it starts with me!
    Yes, I know it starts with me!
    Oh, I know it starts with me!
    It starts with me!

    The lessons I learn I will share with you.
    And if you share them too–
    The world will change–
    The world will grow–
    And it’s all because I know!

    For, I know it starts with me!
    Yes, I know it starts with me!
    Oh, I know it starts with me!
    It starts with me!”

    Just want everyone to know I’m working hard on my end and in my little corner of the world to produce civic-minded future citizens! We held our classroom presidential election this past Tuesday.
    Patricia won with 58 % of the vote. Kade graciously gave his concession speech after lunch recess and we celebrated an Inaugural Ball at the end of the day today.

    Namaste, everyone.

    P.S. Every child has been given the role of Senator or Representative but they have no clue yet as to how that plays out.
    And…..Madam President has chosen her cabinet of Sec. State, Sec. Treasurer, Sec. Health and Human Services, and Sec. of Interior (He makes sure the desks stay neat inside. Today, he asked if that includes giving penalties!)


  560. Hey All. Just a heads up dealing with your pets during the Flu season. Wash your hands and keep the pets away while you are sick. It can transfer as it has been found in a house cat in Iowa.








  564. Been trying to post these links to petitions — hoping it goes thru this time.


  565. Today’s tea bag speakers prove they don’t even know what they are talking about. Todd Akin (R-MO) doesn’t know the Pledge of Allegiance and John Boehner (R-OH) doesn’t know the difference between the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. I guess this isn’t important information for anyone elected to support these things. Anyway, the crowd doesn’t seem any more clued in.

    American Idiots

    My question is: Why hasn’t “survival of the fittest” wiped out these obvious lesser intellects? Maybe we have upset the natural order of things in this quasi-socialist society we call America.


  566. Ahhhh, Whirled peas, your four simple pictures said it all! Don’t we all wish life could be as simple as it is through the eyes of a child! We can hope, yes we can 😉
    Namaste Δ


  567. For a different
    slant on the news…

    ..try ONN:

    The Onion News Network

    8) ~ Δ


  568. OMG, I just heard about the shootings at Fort Hood!


  569. Tine, your week sounds awful! I hope you’re all doing a lot better soon!
    My brief talk-radio dose today included encouragement for all seniors to cut up their AARP cards and send them to AARP because they don’t want government health care. No mention of sending back medicare cards though.


  570. Oh, pshaw.

    Sorry I’ve been incommunicado. We’ve had a wave of strep throat and H1N1 (the real thing this time) in our house. I’ve had barfy, feverish children hanging off me pretty much nonstop for the past week.

    Even so… Lori, I heard your message loud and clear. Calling voters while catching barf in a bucket won’t work very well (ew), but there must be something useful I can do from here. I’ll make it my mission to figure that out.


  571. Sorry Donna. I’ll try to be more serious.

    Meanwhile, back to the subject. Let’s face it. Members of Congress don’t have a clue as to what it is like to be without anything, either healthcare or food. They live a life of privilege bested only by robber barons and Hollywood superstars, privilege that we pay for with our taxes.

    My wife and I, our son’s family sometimes make donations of food or clothing to a nearby storefront ministry, not for psychic or heavenly rewards, but because that is where basic human needs are met directly. There we come face to face with the least privileged members of society, more often than not doing dirty, difficult or dangerous jobs that would be shunned by most Americans. Sure a lot of them may be immigrants, legal as well as illegal, but that does not alter the fact that they work very hard physically, and have to do it every day until they die. For many of them, despite paying taxes, there is no relief, and retirement is not a dream, but merely a vocabulary word.

    Last year we met the matriarch of an extended family who had been diagnosed with polycystic kidney disease. Of course she had no health insurance. On our most recent visit she was no longer around and the people working at the ministry only knew that she had left town and had no further news of her whereabouts. We can only imagine the end of the scenario.


  572. jsri–you crack me up.


  573. Delurker Girl

    On Fox News, Bachmann described the protest as her “Super Bowl of freedom.”

    3000 protesters sounds more like a toilet bowl than a super Bowl.


  574. Hey, whaddaya know? Foxnews created a news story and it’s big news only to them. I wonder if Michelle Bachmann’s protest drew 2 million people, like the last big protest? (cough)

    I enjoyed this piece of logic:

    “Republicans are in the minority, but a minority in Congress plus the American people equals the majority,” Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., told Fox News Thursday.


  575. AARP endorses House healthcare bill!!!!!


  576. lori–I am SO there with you!!


  577. TINE… good lord how could I not remember that talented intelligent, gifted individual????……. 😉 sorry….. to her all I forgot…


  578. 😉 Donna…. Joe….Kitkat, Pi, Pamela, Peas, PSU, NOP, Sally, Jean. greyt, delurker, Joan, Pool, sofie, anne,…..alll M&H’s educated talented peps I have not mentioned…..(i’m getting old and I’m tired! LOL)

    We need your talentssssss… If you have the time and /or want please think about joining the team…. As Bobby Kennedy said (paraphrase) ..It starts with someone throwing a stone in a pond…. The ripple begins….. soon we have a wave….. and then from there we have a movement…….Contact your local DNC OR candidates local office and from there choose your best weapon and use it. You people are sooooooo smart an soooo talented please don’t let it stop on M&H’s doorstep……… We need everyone….. Change will not happen on it’s own.. Let’s put the “conservative….. teabaggers…..” down for good this time We have a good start. This will clear the path for equality for allllll once and for allllllll….. Yes we can!

    Thanks for listening to my rant! Having spent 16 hours on the phone calling NY 23 voters the other day, I sure could have used one or two of M&H’s peps….. and the thing is I know you would have helped…. Please call and volunteer today. 😉 namaste’


  579. @ JuneauJoe Δ

    old trolls were more creative than the new batch.
    They sure were !
    New batch aren’t even trolls…

    Take care neighbor…


  580. Welcome back Alaskapi

    You too have been missed.

    I actually listen to some of the rants of Beck, Rush and the Republican leadership – and then I can’t stand it anymore and change to something with facts instead of crazy.

    Pi – old trolls were more creative than the new batch.


  581. OMG, thanks for today’s laugh. I definitely needed it and you were soooo missed. I’m really glad your hubby is doing well. You all make my day. Blessings.


  582. @ Delurker Girl Δ –

    I don’t have TV and radio here doesn’t have the blowhard folks…

    And I’m not talking about the email birther etc wacko folks…Sad to say I have had to cut contact with vast numbers of my own extended family who NEED to believe some of that stuff because they are so scared.

    I’m not very good at explaining this but it’s kicking- around-ideas-instead -of -people I’m trying to get at.
    We are all too raw after the Bush years and nasty-routine by Rovian types through the Clinton years to talk about ideas and ways to sort things out… we all retreat to corners and snipe… all of us…


  583. A quick reminder:

    Four Simple Pictures

    8) ~ Δ


  584. Alaskapi, I agree that we need to hear all sides, including what the blowhards are trying to scare people into believing. It’s why I tolerate a little talk radio sometimes in the car. I don’t need to share pie with trolls to know what they’ve been fed elsewhere.

    When it comes to true intellectual debate over issues or policy, I prefer to try to find sane people to listen to. That takes more effort than it should, unfortunately.


  585. @ lori on November 4, 2009

    “did you guys see this about Palin???? Wow we really did dodge a bullet with her.. whewwww”
    If we can’t get her stopped here in Alaska you won’t have dodged the bullet…
    So -don’t let down your guard.

    After going back and re-reading your 7 posts in 7 days from last fall and the post election post The Company We Keep I see some baby steps…
    So- maybe tomorrow we will have good news.
    We could all use it…
    We have tons of work to do…

    as I said elsewhere… best wishes for Harold…
    and thank you , to you and Margaret, for having us all in.
    Re-reading posts from last fall also reminded me that Craig and James and such like are too weinie to be called trolls…
    (Your arguments were better last fall James…)
    We spent a lot of time last fall trying to hone our own arguments against far more interesting and more real trollie types…
    Well, ummm, cleaning up after colorful barfed on the carpet wasn’t that interesting…

    I’m hoping folks who visit here don’t get so comfortable visiting with like minded souls that they forget to keep an ear on the voices around the edges…
    Scrolling right on by is good…
    but scan while while you scroll is my motto…

    Thanks again ladies for having us all in.


  586. Lori–couldn’t agree more (from a fellow wonk). Before this I read Frank Schaeffer’s Crazy for God. Since I’m Jewish I wasn’t really familiar with his writing but learned of him through Huff Po and his postings, as well as a few interviews during the election. Fascinating person, particularly in how far he’s come and how honest he’s willing to be about the Biggies in the conservative movement. And I’m also waiting for the Plouffe book.


  587. Thanks for brightening my day. I hope that Harold is back on his feet soon. He is in my prayers.




  588. Thanks Donna!!!!! I will certainly put that on my winter reading list. I am currently waiting for my copy of The Audacity To Win The Presidency by David Plouffe (Obama’s campaign manager). I saw him speak a few months back, he has an amazing political mind. When you think of what he did, and how much he overcame getting Obama to the White House… It is just an amazing feat to wonks like me..;-)


  589. I know many of you receive mediamatters e-mail for those of you don’t take a peek at this.

    If there was ever a doubt about FOX NEWS being the public relations arm of the GOP read a few of there latest doozies!

    Dearie…. EXCELLENT IDEA!


  590. GOP Obstructionism on health care.


  591. How many people in various districts that HAVE DIED because they DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!


  592. Faux news – where they don’t let facts get in the way


  593. clayo ..
    Its called a remote..

    believe it or not you can change the channel.

    And hear exactly what you want to hear………..


  594. Well Margaret..what say you about this mess?

    I’m sure we would all like to hear your opinion as well.

    I mean FOX news is at the head of the ratings for News..and yet the White House says it is not a news organization.

    It’s just amazing that all the news commentators and reporters that we grew up with are now with FOX.

    What can we make of this Margaret?


  595. My best wishes for your husband’s recovery. Old age is a bi*ch.


  596. Congressman Anthony Weiner Needs Our Help – Sign the Petition for the Public Option


  597. Dearie, I *love* that! While we are outlawing divorce… adultery, lying, hiring prostitutes, pornography, emotional abuse, physical abuse, premarital sex, failure to help with housework, poor hygeine, and chronically putting clothes in the laundry inside-out should be outlawed, too. I don’t think gay marriage is nearly the threat all these other things are.

    To these hypocrites, marriage only has sanctity when it’s used to prevent basic human rights like access to health care, hospital visitation and inheritance law. Jesus didn’t attach those strings to marriage.


  598. Oops… LINK


  599. “Tribal concerns to gain U.S. attention”

    Obama to meet with Indian leaders Thursday

    Please Pray For Healing the Nation


  600. lori–I am currently reading Republican Gomorrah and the parts about Palin are amazing. But then so is the rest of it. I really recommend the book.


  601. Tim Pawlenty feels Olympia Snowe is too liberal to be a Republican! Republicans have a circular firing squad.


  602. did you guys see this about Palin???? Wow we really did dodge a bullet with her.. whewwww


  603. After last nights voting on issues and candidates…

    I’m glad to see you all making lemonade from lemons.

    Better get that recipe down..cause I think its gonna be around for a while.


  604. In California we may get to vote on a referendum to support the sanctity of marriage — by outlawing divorce! I love spunk! And I will anxiously await the rightwing voters’ response to this issue. Hey, Newt, been married often?



    Hey, when will I get to vote on the civil rights and equality of privileged heterosexuals???

    At least Washington State gave us a crumb of equality. I gotta’ say, though, I’m sick and tired of the crumbs.


  606. Why the Republicans are shrinking in numbers:


  607. Actually in the real world, Gallop and other polls show liberals to be a shrinking minority in this country. Beyond the border of fantasy land, you are the trolls locked in your own echo chamber.

    If Lori thinks Ny-23 was a big victory for Democrats, she is more clueless than I thought.
    The New York race and the others featured well-off suburbanites and independents shifting Republican. The Republican and Independent won a higher total of votes than the Democrat. A better Republican candidate would not have attracted a conservative opponent to split the vote, and Republicans would have won a clean sweep in the three races.

    But, it is about all you have isn’t it? Cling to NY-23 and think bad thoughts of Sarah who was not hurt by this, while I mock you.

    Trevor, I don’t have time or inclination to visit and cheapen any more of your days for a long time, but I’m glad I did today. It was special. Bye.


  608. Unfortunately, the far right wing of the Republican party will take the wrong message from yesterday’s elections.

    In the New York 23rd, the right wing managed to run the moderate Republican out of the race, only to lose that seat to a Democrat for the first time in more than 100 years. The right wing may be reveling (wallowing?) in its power to control the Republican party, but driving mainstream Republicans into the arms of the Democratic party isn’t the way to win elections (of course, from my perspective, I hope they keep that up!).

    In recent polls, only 20% of Americans self-identify as Republicans. And less than 50% of that identify as conservative. That adds up to about 10% of the electorate; not enough to win in the long run.

    Winning the governorships of Virginia and New Jersey were not referendums on Obama. In Virginia, the Democrat was a lackluster candidate at best, and in New Jersey, Corzine was unpopular in large part because of his wealth and former position with Goldman Sachs. Michael Bloomberg spent a huge amount of money to win a third term as New York City’s mayor and almost lost to a nobody. People just don’t like Wall Street types right now.

    As for Maine’s Question 1, that’s just a sad, sad result. I guess some people just don’t see the disconnect between equal rights for themselves and equal rights for all. We don’t allow voter referendums on racial, gender or religious equality, among other rights, why this? Even in those states which allow civil unions, separate but equal still isn’t equal.


  609. Delurker Girl Δ – POX News! LMAO
    They should run with that. It could be “Fur and Badnessed” reporting 😆


  610. Troll? Print, shred, dump, flush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  611. LOL, and don’t forget those gay Teletubbies!


  612. Liberals have taken over Sesame Street?


  613. Maine upsets me too–it upsets me because it’s a basic human right! Or should be, anyway!

    It’s a matter of EQUALITY.


  614. Hi folks. I am here in Maine, very upset at the outcome of yesterdays vote. I only know that the fight for equality is not over here. While everyone is enjoying legal medical marijuana(sp?) the civil rights’ team is planning our next strategy.


  615. Shannyn Moore on Sarah Palin. (Shannyn is just a girl from Homer.)

    Shannyn has a great summary of Sarah.


  616. Good to see you all here this fine morning! Scrolled right by the trolls. They say nothing I want to read. Ever. The only way I know they were here is by the comments of the people I DO want to read!

    Anyhoo, NJ and VA were no surprise to me, I expected that outcome all along. The on ethat I was most concerned about was NY-23 and thankfully the carpetbagger had his teabags handed to him.

    The Maine thing, however, is distressing. Why are civil rights up for popular vote anyway? Why is it OK to gang up like this on one sector of society when it has been clearly stated that civil rights are matters to be decided by the Constitution and the courts? Let the lawsuits begin.


  617. Well they fixed it now, but this was up on Fox news. They confused Going Rouge with Going Rogue. It was up all night and only fixed this morning. 😀

    A Funny From FOX


  618. Good advice Lori

    So, An American won the NY Marithon for the first time since 1982. Some reporter says he is a citizen but not a real American.

    Didn’t our citizens come from other countries? the teabagger mentality is crazy! Is there a class in stupid?



  619. Scrolling is good with Trolls.

    Here is the mudflats recipe for NY 23rd


  620. Joe…… Trolls are trolls are trolls…. Who cares? You knew as sure as the sun did shine this morning they would be back….Scroll baby boy scroll.. You know from experience they say nothing worth your reading time anyway soooooo why bother?????

    Remember a year ago yesterday the trolls were telling us about the “Brady” factor????

    They are ignorant ….. tea baggerssss….If you need proof look at NY 23

    If you have an urge to spend energy on them…. Volunteer for a candidate of your choosing spend that extra energy working for the person that best represents your views… 😉 Don’t get ma get even… and nothing says even better than a WIN!!!!!namaste


  621. Welcome back! We missed you so! My very best wishes to Harold. I don’t know about him, but having to listen to FAUX News raises my blood pressure, so surely can’t be healthy for a recovering patient. Besides that, it is cruel and unusual punishment, lol.
    Big Hugs!!


  622. What were the issues the 23rd district was confronted with other than us vs. them mentality?


  623. It is hard to do, but I will ignore the Trolls.

    Ignore the trolls! Ignore the trolls!

    Poor Sarah and the NY 23rd – Dems Won,


  624. Helen…you are the best!

    James…you cheapen this day.


  625. Poor James….


  626. I hope Harold recovers soon.

    Tea Parties’ influence

    Sarah Palin’s influence

    Reverend Wright

    Ted Kennedy

    Obama’s greater than normal fall in the polls

    The health insurance bills

    Failures of the stimulus and several other laws

    Obama’s divisiveness


    Inflation hasn’t happened yet, but it will.

    So far, I am still right and the logic impaired minority so eager to resort to name calling when it has nothing else is still wrong.

    Schadenfreude for them.

    Synergy is another good word. What I saw in the list of successful guesses was events which alone had little impact. Put them together, and they mean something.

    The health insurance bills are still on life support as I wrote when I was still posting here. Harry Reid said on Friday there is no real Senate bill yet. Nancy continues to bluff, but her hand is also weak.

    The party in power usually loses elections, so saying the Republican victories were a referendum on Obama are unfair. Virginia is traditionally more Republican than Democratic, and Obama mania has faded. But it doesn’t matter. Perception is reality, and spinners are turning it into a referendum.

    Consider the psychological effect on Blue Dog Democrats and others from conservative districts. A Tea Party is schedualed for tomorrow.

    Michele Bachmann is helping organize it on short notice, so there won’t be time for hundreds of thousands of people as the last one attracted. However, even a few thousand will have an effect since they plan to gather outside Congressional office doors and talk to representatives.

    Our representatives also read the papers. The Washington Post, New York Times and others see trouble ahead for Democrats. The independent’s disenchantment with Democratic policies is stunning. That is the main story and it is largely why Republicans won.

    The psychological jolt will affect the health insurance debate, especially if a vote is delayed until next year as several Democrats have claimed. They wanted it passed prior to the August recess before people knew its contents. As more information comes to light, more people have doubts. As the next election draws near, it will be harder to pass. My guess is a twenty percent chance critics will kill the beast in its present form.

    The other lesson learned last night is how conservatives destroyed the Republican candidacy and yet narrowly lost the election. Many have been talking third party, but Owen’s victory should be an object lesson. The disaffected must work within the Republican or Democratic party if they expect to win. For that reason, I am glad the conservative lost.

    10,000 gathered to protest Obama in Houston a week or so ago. When Obama went to San Francisco for a fund raiser possibly several thousand Tea Partiers gathered to protest. Can you imagine that happening in San Francisco? They have also protested Republicans. A large elephant is in the room, and it presents a threat to leaders of both parties as the election illustrated.

    Obama is not doing so well overseas either. Iran has not reacted any more favorably to our blandishments than to Bush’s. A Honduran legislative committee voted not to convene Congress to consider restoring their ousted leader even temporarily after a deal brokered by the United States. A presidential election scheduled for November 29 could happen before any vote on Mr. Zelaya. In other words, they told Hillary to take a hike.

    Afghanistan is now Obama’s war, and it it’s outcome is in doubt as Obama looks for the solution which offers him the least political damage.

    The tide is turning.


  627. Hey, what really did happen in Maine?
    Somebody ‘splain that one! A marriage law was voted down but the marijuana question passed?

    The dust-up in New York’s 23rd district was amazing! Never seen anything like that! The Republican party in that district actually pulled the plug on itself and the seat went Dem for the first time in well over a century! Isn’t this the district the tea-baggers went nuts over? Just goes to show yah that very few people really want to join a cult!

    There was also an election in California’s 10th which went very quietly Dem.

    The winners of the NY 23rd and the CA 10th are the ones Obama will be working with on legislation, not the governors.

    Now if only the rest of the people realize that, especially all those exit-polled “independents” who were actually Republicans. Maybe we can get Health Care Reform as a Christmas present!

    And here’s to Harold – the blessings of good health upon you and yours!


  628. Good to see you back, Helen. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for Harold!


  629. Oh Margaret….what happened in Maine?


  630. Whew, I was glad to see the latest post. It’s a gem, too. I was starting to get worried about you. Being a Houston gal, I laughed the hardest at the the Rick Perry (George W. Bush wannabe) remark. I am hoping the best for you and your husband. You are a national treasure.


  631. ******Reid to not primary a strong candidate

    That should read… Reid ot not RUN a strong candidate

    Sorry was a late night..;-)


  632. I can’t tell you how pleased I am with the outcome of NY 23 race. The amount of money and star power that was spent on that 100 year republican race was astronomical. Palin, Beck, Rush, 3 HUGE far right think tanks all put enormous resources into that race and came up empty handed… That was a major victory for the democrats and specifically the progressives.

    I’m neither surprised nor worried about the Virginia races. It is typical for the party in power to lose the NJ and Virginia in the subsequent election. I am especially encouraged that Obama’s approval ratings, in Virginia, are higher today than a year ago.

    NJ does give me pause in one respect, even though it’s typical to lose NJ, I really expected to pull that race out this year because of the heavy support Obama had there last year, both grassroots and traditional. I am anxious to look deeper into the exit polling to see what is going on in that state. I’ll let you know what I find.

    Lieberman…. grrrrrr…. Joe’s story… Joe is (or at least was) a friend of progressives. He had one of the most liberal voting records in the senate, and then came 9/11. Joe’s religious beliefs come above anything else in his life. Hence, his stance on the middle east are hard right line…. period…. Joe felt the democratic party left him in the weeds when they primaried him over his pro war-pro /Bush ideology. Joe had to go out and raise his money for reelection solo. Without the party’s money he turned to one of the largest lobbies/employers in his state…. The healthcare industry.. he owes them BIG time.. without them he would have surely lost his race. So between what Joe views as a stab in the back by his party and his loyalty to the lobbies who bankrolled his campaign, after the democrats cut off all money … Joe is paying us back BIG TIME…. I think if he can get some promises from Reid to not primary a strong candidate in the next election and a wink and a nod from the democratic party leaders, Joe will at the very least not block a vote. We will see… as my father use to say…. where the bear shits in the woods…. Please keep the pressure up on these people and hold their feet to the fire!

    We have lots of hard work still to do… Keep up the fight.. we have come to far to stop now… Thanks to all who put in some long late hours over the last few days… namaste ..;-)


  633. A MILLION thoughts, prayers, and good wishes to both you and Harold!

    As always, your post is a gem! Thank you for sharing your brilliant wisdom! You make us laugh. You make us think. You make us remember to live thoughtfully and meaningfully!

    Looking forward to the Annual Thanksgiving Letter to the Family!


  634. Hi gang and Sistah Sally,

    Sooooooo, now you are a card-carrying-bona-fide-Republican! You do know you are going to be inundated with mail, phone calls. I do hope you didn’t give them your e mail address.

    We haven’t had a late night chat in a while, Sally. I’ve missed you. I’m sure you too meet a lot of tourists as we do. Over the 19 years we have been here, we have met plenty of interesting people from the mainland and some from the all over the world. Like Ivory Soap, they are 99.9% well mannered and appreciative of the info we give them about the islands. In fact, we have made some fast friends that way that return every year, sometimes being our houseguests. Occasionally, we have visited quite a few of them in their homes whenever we happened to be on the mainland and fairly nearby.

    Of course, there is always that .1% of obnoxious assholes who are hypercritical of everything out here. After listening to their litany of complaints, my standard reply to them is, “If everything is so far superior where you come from, why didn’t you stay home?” Works every time.

    Do you remember my talking about my painting a while back? The one of the violin leaning against the keyboard of the piano? Well just for fun, I submitted it to an art exhibit and son-of-a-gun, it was accepted. What do I do now? Actually, it’s not for sale, but it should be an adventure. The exhibit begins Saturday. It’s catered, etc., etc. It’s kind of a big deal for me since I am a rank amateur artist, but I love doing it!

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  635. Thank you
    HRH sofia EQ
    I’m still all you want me to be.
    Or at least I’ll keep trying to meet
    your expectations.


  636. Donna..
    Don’t worry ..I felt that way all day is such a long flight and we do,..or I do get edgy after such travels or long hours at work…and need my rest before I try and communicate with others.
    Best to all.


  637. Sofia–I’ve been out of town and I saw so many wishes for Harold (all of which are 100% correct) that I felt like I’d be an echo. Please know that I absolutely share those views and never meant to suggest otherwise.

    So, no–I don’t just pop in to say “ignore the trolls.” But you are correct that I should have expressed my very sincerely held view that I’m glad the hosts are back and wish Harold a speedy and complete recovery. Thanks for calling me on it.


  638. Hey Donna,
    Like I said, I’m a bit peevish tonight. Do you ONLY come out to tell others to ignore trolls? You haven’t even wished Harold a quick recovery. Nor said hello to Helen and Margaret. Even that hideous ‘troll’ Craig said “Oh Helen so glad to hear that you are back and that Harold is doing well.”



  639. OK, to everyone else, I apologize. Just look up Grayson’s apology and apply it here.

    I”m a bit peevish tonight. Sorry.

    Several of my siblings live in CT. I had sent a very polite email to my older sister who lives in that sorry state to ask what she thought of her senator. To keep the email a bit lighter, I talked of my granddaughter and how cute she is at this stage,(5 mos) and a bit of other light banter, but I really wanted to know what she thinks of THAT idiot. Sure, he’s senator in a state that runs mostly on insurance money and quite a bit from the NY Wallstreet (saw a BEAUTIFUL wooden hull power boat this summer in Mystic, the owner commutes to Wall St. on that boat, he makes bundles and probably still does) Have you ever listened to this panty waisted whiner?) but why does he NOT want anyone else to have affordable health coverage. She said I should enjoy my granddaughter and never answered my question. I guess I’ll never know just why Lieberman is an idiot. Maybe it’s because his name begins with LIE. (I just learned this from spellcheck, thank you spellcheck) No, really, I understand, JUST FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!


  640. Folks–I’ve asked before and I’ll ask again. Can we ignore Craig? He’s simply looking for attention and as long as you give it to him, he’ll continue to clog the blog with his puerile bullshit. He’s not funny, he’s not interesting, he has nothing of any value to add. Can we stop indulging his infantile need to be noticed?


  641. Hey Craig, good to see you back and good to see you haven’t changed one bit. I was gonna say it’s good to see you’re still an idiot but I too polite to say that kind of stuff. I take lessons from Fox news?


  642. “Calling FOX News a “News Source” is like calling crack cocaine a “food source”.”

    That’s about right!! I work with a few yahoos who actually think the Fixed Noise network is the only network that IS fair and balanced and the only place to get the “truth.” And others who say that there is no difference at all between Bill O’Reilly and Keith Olbermann. It still staggers me that there are people who are actually that thick and blind and stupid. Some people are really just so easy to fool.


  643. Best Wishes to Harold and as usual you rock!!….missed you terribly….


  644. FOX News a “News Source” is like calling crack cocaine a “food source”

    Guess that makes CNN …street meth


  645. Missed you Helen. Hope that all is well. Glad Harold is ok (and you too!) Stay fiesty, we need you!


  646. Oh Helen so glad to hear that you are back and that Harold is doing well.

    I just don’t know why Margaret didn’t pass that bit of news on to us?
    most of us had been on pins and needles not having heard from you.

    I don’t remember if I had told you that my wife and I were at National Physicians meeting in Oahu last week.

    On Friday of last week I visited the local mall and the Royal Hawaiian band did a 45 minute performance.

    They opened with the state song which I rose for with some others…I didn’t know the words but it was the right thing to do.

    I looked around and maybe only 40% of the people stood.
    Then they went right into the National

    I realize there were a lot of people of different nationalities there, but I was amazed at how many of them just sat on their butts.

    The hawiian’s have an attitude and it shows. From what I gather they despise the military presence…but like the money.

    Oh…and Helen what in the world is going on in our political world?

    Is the earth going out of its orbit? My God Obama
    is gritting his teeth at Campbell Brown of CNN for taking sides with FOX news
    …and now all of a sudden the Tea Partiers..those other people are threatening to gain a governor’s seat or two.

    Finally glad to hear about Harold..just remember to tell Margaret to fill us in and not just keep the news to herself.

    I had a hard time fillin in for ya Helen. These loyal followers get feisty when they have to resort to passing home remedies and recipes to keep the hamster rollin so to speak.


  647. Calling FOX News a “News Source” is like calling crack cocaine a “food source”.


  648. Honolulu Sally,

    Your being a Republican is funny in a sad sort of way.

    Sarah Palin, Glen Beck, Rush and the Republicans in Congress are running their party into the ground AND THEY SEE IT AS SUCCESS! They are running any moderates out of the party – not wise but it makes them feel powerful.

    delaney55: Sorry to hear about your pre-existing condition crap. That is why we must have a public option. We cannot trust that insurance companies will do the right thing.


  649. Best hopes for a speedy recover for Harold!

    I am one of the un-insured because at 55 I am overweight (<100lbs over though) I take blood pressure meds (have lowest dose possible and no problems) and take medication for a bum thyroid.

    Wow, what if I had diabetes or cancer or something else? They need to stop insurance companies from denying coverage to those of us with pre-existing conditions and are self employed.


  650. Good to hear from you Helen, and best wishes for a speedy and great recovery for Harold. You been missed major big time!

    UAW is probably Fox New’s most reasonable viewer. Which says mountains about it’s viewership.

    The Republican party and the far right mud flingers are a dying breed. I think I can say that because I am now a proud (?!>#$*%?) card carrying Republican.

    A few months ago, I received a very slanted survey from Michael Steele, Republican Party Chair. I answered everything the opposite way from the way they wanted, i.e. (paraphrased): Do you support President Obama’s irresponsible reckless policies that are leading our country to destruction? I checked the box for yes.

    On and on this survey asked about the disaster that is coming, blaming the Democrats and Obama exclusively, and at the end, they asked for money.

    To validate my survey, I sent in $10.

    Oh my! Please do not hurl expletives at me for that!

    I figured $10 would barely cover the cost of postage, printing, etc since I did not disclose an email address and am on their snail mail list.

    A month later, I get a thank you letter gushing about my “generous contribution that is helping the RNC fight back against the Obama Democrats’ efforts to end American exceptionalism.”

    I also got an embossed plastic card (like a credit card) that identifies me as one of the elite RNC members – my $10 put me in the top 3% of all Republicans!

    It is a dying party if they have someone like me as a card carrying supporter in their upper echelon.

    The other 97% of the Republican party members are the Fox News junkies. When asked to show up for the rumble, they prefer to stay home and watch it on Fox TV instead.

    God help them. I mean it, really.


  651. Nice writing style. Will read this blog now!


  652. David Vitter called out by a rape victim for his vote against the gal raped in Iraq.


  653. I’m keeping both you and Harold in my prayers. Speedy recovery to Harold and an extra dose of patience for you. Thanks for taking some of your time out to share with us. Your insight and humor is greatly needed and appreciated. God bless you.


  654. possible duplicate, sometimes things just disappear.
    Thank you Jean and JuneauJoe, I’ve actually been watching Bill Moyers for years now but often missed him when out schedules didn’t mesh. Now that I can watch him on the ‘net, I’ve caught up.

    It just seems that with hundreds of channels to watch, there should be more than 4 people worth listening to.

    I also check Crooks and Liars daily along with a list of 15 or so others (Margaret and Helen became one of the 15 awhile ago) I end my morning read with a quick stop at LOL Cats, AKA Icanhascheezburger for an antidote to all the ‘news’


  655. Jean: I got my stuff from Crooks and Liars which I check daily, if I have access to internet.

    Whirled Peas told me how to do it actually.
    it was kind of funny. I saw the video on Matthew Hoh this AM and then checked M&H and you had posted your comments about him, so I put up the link. He really is a very impressive person.

    Timing worked great.


  656. Hi gang and Bruddah Juneau Joe,

    Thanks for the Schieffer and Moyers’ links. I don’t know how you and Bruddah Peas find and put up the really good stuff. I applaud you!!!

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  657. Helen, so happy to see you are back. You and Margaret were really missed. Prayers for Harold’s quick and complete recovery. And you take care also. We need your common sense and wonderful sense of humor!!


  658. Helen, you bring a genuine smile to my face every time I read your blog. I can only imagine that this is a very, VERY small sense of what it is like to know you in person. I wish health peace and happiness to you and your family.


  659. Bob Schieffer is another voice to consider:

    Bill Moyers on reinstating the draft.


  660. Hi gang and HRH sofia EQ,

    I think you will enjoy Zacaria’s show. Here’s another one. Bill Moyers on PBS on Friday evenings. Moyers has been around forever. His most ringing endorsement is that for a long time he was a favorite target of the GOP spokesmen. They tried their best to take him down, to no avail.

    From time to time, Bruddah Whirled Peas has put up links to Moyer’s show.

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  661. Hi jsri,

    I did receive your e mail a while back. Thank you for your kind words about my take on DNA on my web site. I would have liked to respond but here’s my problem.

    I don’t speak conputerese very well. I can RECEIVE e mails from the web site but I can’t SEND them. Something about that e mail account having been ‘deactivated’ for some reason or other. The web site has been up there for a long time. Years actually. It is surrounded by a very sophisticated security system I have a hard time navigating. I would have to get my computer guru up here to the tune of 90 bucks an hour to ‘activate’, whatever that means. Further, I only understand about every fifth word he says anyhow. Maintaining and updating a web site is a full time job! For me, it’s a lot of fuss and bother now. I’d rather just do M&H.

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  662. Sorry to hear your Harold is in the hospital. I hope the jello is good.


  663. I hope Harold is recovering well. Prayers and well wishes sent his way. Thanks for writing, as usual you hit the nail on the head on the topic!


  664. I hope Harold will be ok.


  665. Glad you are back, Helen. Great post as usual. Wishing a speedy recovery to Harold.

    Margaret, I sure hope Maine can keep the marriage equality law. It sure would be a relief if we could win this battle.


  666. While Obama is a good light for America, No i dont think he dserve the prize (yet).


  667. Helen is back! Helen is Back!! Helen is Back!!!!
    SEE!!!! She didn’t die…


  668. Wow! Helen’s back! Oh happy day… even though I am several days late to the party.

    Adding my wishes to all the others for Harold’s complete recovery.

    This post was filled with all the usual LOL moments and my favorite two were these:

    “Palin having an opinion about Levi Johnson “selling his body” is like Roman Polanski having an opinion about Woody Allen’s choice in girlfriends. Pot meet Kettle. ”


    “Give Rush Limbaugh a football team. Who better than he understands the effects of massive head injuries? ”

    You are brilliant! So glad you’re back and OK. We were all very worried, you know!


  669. Glad you are back and that Harold is doing better.
    Take care of yourself too!


  670. Jean:

    JuneauJoe too. I too saw a recent interview with Matthew Hoh. He comes across as a thoroughly credible source and should be listened to carefully. Because of our heavy handed tactics in the recent past, there is little reason we will ever win over the Afghans. It is time to cut our losses and get out. We are no longer the sole arbiters of what is best for the rest of the world especially when that position has been maintained by military might alone.

    BTW Jean. I tried to contact you thru your website about a month ago but will assume that the message went into a junk mail box.


  671. Dearest Helen, thank you for your post. Yep, we were all quite concerned around here. And we figured something must be up at home. Sending hugs and prayers for Harold’s speedy recovery. Prayers for you as you care for him. And kind thoughts to Margaret and her family, as well.

    Thank you for your continued insight into this crazy world. You are awesome! My Irish grandmother had the same wit and wisdom. Oh how I miss her!


  672. Auntie Jean and JuneauJoe, thank you so much for that link and info. I do admire Zacaria’s work but have mostly watched him on Jon Stewart. I had given up on TV guide, there is much to much crap to wade through so I had just given up on TV. Now I’ll look for Zacaria’s show. If you find other shows of value, please let us all know.


  673. what a great laugh to start the day!!!!!


  674. Ahhh, finally another awesome post. I hope all is well with Harold and he has a speedy recovery.


  675. The Matthew Hoh video

    It really is quite good, Thanks Jean


  676. Hi gang,

    Regarding the low level of TV and news coverage these days. I want to speak up for one that I think is first rate. Fareed Zacaria is a journalist who hosts a show, “GPS’ on CNN. Out here it is on Sunday mornings. I watch it pretty regularly as he goes into the news of the day in depth with some outstanding guests.

    This morning he had an interesting and quite articulate young man. I think his name is Matthew Hoh. He was a Marine Captain in Iraq and has just resigned from a position in the State Department in protest of the Afghanistan War. He spoke with some authority, having been there.

    I think we can all agree that the “Bull in the China Shop” approach to the foreign policy of the Bush Administration was worse than dismal.

    Matthew Hoh said words to this effect, that there are a hundred or more Afghan valleys for every valley we have troops in.

    It’s not worth our young soldiers dying for. This says nothing of the human toll of the Afghan people and the destruction of their country.

    Naturally, the military wants more troops. That’s what the military does – – fights the enemy. There has to be an enemy somewhere to justify the ‘raison d’etre’ of the military.

    I am encouraged that President Obama is taking his time analyzing the whole situation, not just militarily, but politically. Right now, the political situation of Afghanistan is a basket case. Until there is some kind of political stability there, I feel THERE IS NO MILITARY SOLUTION.

    Aloha! 🙂

    Auntie Jean


  677. HRH sofia EQ,

    “King of Hearts” was great, subtitles and all. Loved it. Even bought the VHS for my brother-in-law when he was immersed in learning French. We had a theater in Seattle that played it quite often back in the early 70s. It was the same theater that I saw “The Ruling Class” (a very dark comedy). Both were movies to make one think.


  678. It is wonderful to see that you are back and posting! Missed the hell out of you. Hope Harold is doing better.
    I am laughing at the Palin vs Levi thing. she can’t believe that he would bare his body to Playgirl. I think the reason that she attacks him on that is because he has a ton of people that want to see his photos nude. I can’t think of one that wants to see a nude Sarah Palin.


  679. I think we should havr a porch cleaning partycomplete with lots of Lysol and steam cleaning in honor ofHelen being back. Honestly the porch needs it with the trolls leaving th eir slime behind, Helen deserves a nice clean porch.
    Hope Harold is doing well. Do anything to get rid of Faux!!


  680. I recommend the New Yorker for in depth articles. Since you are retired I hope that means you have time to read them. (Those suckers are long!)

    A speedy recovery to Harold.


  681. As for television, I just spent almost 1 hr looking for something, ANYTHING, to watch to keep company while I was eating dinner. My main squeeze is away for a week, so I’m eating alone. I clicked through 120 channels and found absolutely NOTHING worth spending time on once 60 minutes was over and since I had missed most of it while cooking, even that wasn’t worth much. It’s no wonder the populace turns to Fox. I guess it’s entertaining for some. I came back here and will search for something worth reading. I think I have a better chance here.


  682. I hate to disagree-but it was KATE who was the jackass in that marriage…the way she treated Jon???? OMG! He finally got the guts to stand up to her…

    Anderson Cooper is on CNN-not Fox…

    Oh, and you can always do like I did after my back surgery…they put this nutty, really crazy old bat in with me…she was up peeing on the floor, telling ME to help her, yelling at me to get her a nurse, and her family came in and held a prayer meeting in the room…then turned on the damn TV to — tadaaaaa FAUX!

    I finally told the nurses that either SHE went or I did…they moved me, bed and all into another room with a lady who was going home the next day with her broken ankle…

    But at least I got away from the wacko!


  683. Anon, have you ever watched “king of hearts?” back in 1971ish, we lived in Aspen, CO, and the local theater did the great service of showing it every couple of weeks. It was always well attended.


  684. […] I sure could use a little good news… tomorrow Well Margaret.  Harold is doing well.   We have a long way to go, but the doctors say it is going the way they had […] […]


  685. Best wishes for a speedy recovery Harold.