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Posted by: Helen Philpot | August 7, 2015

On a stage with no vaginas, there were a lot of opinions about vaginas

Margaret, let’s be clear.  I am obviously using the term vagina in the narrowest sense of the word as defined by the Republican Party: a noun referring to women.  And it was pretty clear at the debate that vaginas  have no value unless a baby needs to pass through one on its way to church or its minimum wage job.  Of course, if that baby is black or brown, then the intended destination changes to either prison or Mexico respectively.

I don’t pretend to think that any of the presidential candidates will ever read what I write, but if they did I hope they will remember this:  

Millions of women have been going to Planned Parenthood for nearly 100 years.  We all remember the exceptional care and the quality of the information we received from the staff at those clinics. We remember when Planned Parenthood staff held our hands and comforted us during some of our scariest moments.  We remember the relief we felt when they provided us with medically accurate information that we so desperately needed.  And women of my age also remember what it was like when safe, legal abortions were not available.

Contrary to what Republican men think, none of us ever went into a Planned Parenthood for a well woman exam, cancer screening or birth control  and mistakenly had an abortion instead.  We know what Planned Parenthood is and that is why we love and support its mission.

And in 100 years, millions of women have trusted and supported Planned Parenthood much the same way Republicans blindly trust and support the NRA.  So to the Republican Presidential Candidates I say in the only words they seem to understand: You can close Planned Parenthood when you pry it from our cold, dead hands. I mean it.  Really.

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Responses

  1. Love it. Tired of people wanting what they want while wanting to deny others choices. Seems science is so often forgotten or totally ignored in favor of “belief”.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Another donation to PP. Thanks – you’re doing a great job!

    Gato

    Like

  3. Black Lives Matter,
    Cops Lives Matter….
    All lives Matter….
    Those Soon to Be Lives Matter! ….
    But if you don’t follow God your life doesn’t matter
    He told me so.

    THIS above was suppose to be written by Chrispychris….
    I wrote it, EXCEPT…..
    The…….” But if you don’t follow God your life doesn’t matter
    He told me so. ”
    I did NOT write these two sentences.
    I would never say “But if you don’t follow God, your life doesn’t matter He told me so”
    ESPECIALLY in that way. I do not use “don’t….or “doesn’t” very much, at all. It is too difficult to type on the IPad. You must switch back and forth on different screens on the keypad.
    My son was on the phone and mentioned writing this “Black Lives Matter” in regards to your approval and pushing of all abortions.
    I made the quick comment….never including those two lines.

    The. Administrator to this site….is changing my wording, and adding phrases and sentences, that was never a part of any of my comments. This is VERY Bad business!
    There was a few other comments where this happened, a few days ago, too.
    One of my doctored statements said ” I had many abortions” which WAS ADDED to my comment. That was NOT true, NOR was it ever a part of my statement. What is all this craziness ?

    Who is the person bearing false witness and slandering? Who is doing this ?

    Like

  4. $30 more to PP thanks to our visiting clown.

    Who is matching me?

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Chris,
    For the last effing time, PP does not ” sell” body parts, they do not force anyone to have an abortion. Abortion is legal in this country. And when a woman chooses to have one, it’s none of your damn business. Now, for the love of God, stop lying.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Black Lives Matter,
    Cops Lives Matter….
    All lives Matter….
    Those Soon to Be Lives Matter! ….
    But if you don’t follow God your life doesn’t matter
    He told me so

    Like

  7. More: Here’s what happens when you
    selectively edit a video to fit your agenda.

    Taste of their own medicine

    Δ

    Liked by 1 person

  8. The chick wanting to negotiate ” $50, then later $ 100, I will have to check.”
    And then ” want a lamborghini ” was ALL SPLICED an EDITED into the VIDEO, Right.? PP should be investigated , at the least, and prosecuted.
    If NOT the public should carry out its own court of opinion, which it is.

    Like

  9. UAW,
    I Love You! Keep on Keepin’ on. Thank You!
    You are a bit harsher on what to do with certain folk, concerning the subject than I, but you hit hard with much truth!
    You certainly are short and sweet, and direct and to the point.
    I laughed at your mention of my long windedness. I am blessed at being able laugh at myself.

    Like

  10. UAW – 23 weeks Is the limit and those that late are almost always a wanted pregnancy gone bad and less so a minor who was too afraid or in denial to go sooner. By the way, most minors come in with their parent(s).

    Investigations going on for several weeks now. Nothing illegal has turned up. Regardless of how you feel about abortion, PP is a very by-the-book organization. Good people. Good mission. Good care. That’s why they have to edit the videos. No smoking guns so make some up…

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Try,
    try,
    again:

    42 splices and counting

    Peace ~ Δ

    Like

  12. So no ones in jail yet. That’s because this(selling baby parts) is being made political. Federal laws says it is illegal(so is crossing the border and we know how well that’s going). Time for prosecutors to get busy.
    You know my stance on abortion…the morning after pill should be in vending machines in the girls bathrooms at 25 cents apiece, but something should be done before 6-7 months have passed ( and don’t give me any shit about the 1 in 10,000 abortions needed to save a mothers life)(you know I’m not talking about that).
    Hell, if they need organs to experiment on there’s lots of people on death rows to “donate”. Give them some of the drug that made Michele Jackson sleep and then chop them up. What’s the difference.

    on another note

    Like

  13. LOVE IT!!! I’m in! This is, IMHO, absolutely the very best way to respond to this crap. You’ve made my morning.

    Thanks!

    Gato

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Crunchy, get off your knees and move on. No one is buying your bullshit. No one from PP has been charged with any wrong doing. That should tell you just how fake this all is. In Texas, a PP that has never participated in fetal tissue donation is under multiple investigations for fetal tissue donations. Why? Because this is a political witch hunt fueled by lies and the fact that PP has the ability to turn out liberal votes with the same gusto as the NRA. Many Republicans are actually pro-choice which is why these lies and negative tactics never work. PP has been around for 100 years. They have an incredible record of providing much needed healthcare including abortion. We women know exactly what they do and why they do it. Like Helen says: From my cold, dead hands.

    Crunchy, for each post you have made and for each one you make moving forward, I will donate $10 to PP. So far they can thank you for a few hundred dollars. Anyone else want to join me?

    Liked by 2 people

  15. Here is another LInk for Planned Parenthood..
    You cannot deny ALL the tesitmony against them. Well you can but we all know they are sinners and deserve this. God told me. In a dream he told me to post this. We are all on a journey. My knees hurt.
    These interveiews cannot be all saying good things…all of them cannot be doctored up……The persons interviewed have credentials…they are part of the organizations…..and their partners…..
    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/planned-parenthood-undercover-video-intact/209/01/id/673081//?ns_mail_uid=641669amp;ns_mail_job=1634140_09012015&s=al&dkt_nbr=pbdtyxk4

    Like

  16. Helen, God Iove ya honey for putting up with the bullshit comments. The good news is this isn’t our first time at the rodeo. This site has survived many a troll and it will survive this latest one.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. The 28′ crash was another financially manipulated, concocted means of creating genocide, carried out simotaneously as the holicost in Germany and Europe. They use every means, and have agendas.
    The average person has NO idea of these things. We are just not thinking in these terms, as a rule.
    The Eugenics movement was ALSO began by the SAME banker/ investor/ industrialists who backed Hitler. GrandPappy Prescott Bush WAS Hitler’s Banker, who was charged with gaining monetary profit from the aiding of the enemy. He was made to pay 1 million dollars, in 1943.
    Listen to the Veith interview.

    Like

  18. Alaskapi
    That last link was a link about the dead bankers..
    This is the link for the interview with Dr. Veith.
    My internet was working intermitently.
    This is not all he says, but, partly….

    Like

  19. Here is a link to one interview with Dr.Veith. It is not the Omega on him.
    Listen to the intervew.

    http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2014/03/15

    Like

  20. Alaskapi,
    I am sure what you are saying is VERY true. I read it over.
    It IS a part of the bigger picture of what I mentioned from Dr. Veith”s seminar on the Jesuits. They WERE the FIRST Bankres. Back then, they were the Knights Templar, and later became the Masons, and also the Jesuits.
    They were HATED by churchmen and the public. They were very dangerous men. The still are.They have various names, as they started many religions and too many organizaions and non-profits to mention, what they did not startup, they bought out, similar to their buying out of the many corporations,
    they control through many front owners….straw parties. .
    Everywhere the Jesuits went under the guise of educating the poor , they
    steal natural resouces and take over the governments by plitical control.
    President Lincoln knew this and wrote his son concernin these very statements I just made. HE said they were dangerous.
    It was not long afterward, he was assasinated. The killer like many in our own times, took the fall for them.
    I will find the link and paste it in my next blog..
    Peace… chris

    Like

  21. Chrispychris- money is only what we agree it is. It is a human construct. Entirely a human construct, as are notions of property, and a zillion other things. Neoliberal economics ( NO thing to do with liberal politics) were a strong shift towards something akin to the old social Darwinist crap

    The main points of neo-liberalism include:
    http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376

    GO READ IT. Better minds than yours and mine have been watching this for 3 decades now. All that crap about conspiracies amongst the papists, bankers and crap is just that – crap.
    We let Reagan and others shift the whole hoolibob and were asleep at the switch until our buns were on fire.
    Quit the silliness and get educated.
    Gato- slap me, eh?
    Greyt- waving madly!!!!

    Like

  22. “You cannot sustain a middle class America, without middle class income.
    The socialists goals are to bust everyone down to broke.”
    ———————-
    Respectfully, that is horseshit Chrispy.
    You have no idea what any kind of socialism is- that is just a talking point from somewhere and the whole sneering at education you did? Same thing.

    Like

  23. Gato,
    I am bursting into laughter at your statement.
    So spoken like a Margaret or a Helen.
    I know you are them in disguise.
    You are SOO funny, Love Your Humor, except when speaking on very serious subject matters.
    Love You, Gato.
    Sis Chris

    Like

  24. I’m beginning to think these posts are being “written” by several primates chained to keyboards who are getting tired of banging on keys for their bananas…

    Liked by 2 people

  25. Alaskapi,
    Edumacashun, is simply memorizing what is written in textbooks, today,
    published by more elitist controlled corporations.
    The facts you are saying are most probably correct, but the public school system, including most colleges merely teaching students to memorize to pass tests. They are NOT teaching folks to think through situations, and to see at all angles of what the truth could be. Education is also a form of brain washing. Garbage in, garbage out.
    You, the intelligncia of America, can sit on the oirch and discuss the lofty ideas of what yiu have been taught……all on oaper…….you may have the numbers and the data, alll lined out in your mind, but, BEING ABLE TO think through the mire of what iS really happening, is what is REALLY necessary to correct the problems in the world. You can have all the numbers and letters correct, but the world IS crumbling while you get the last T crossed.
    Several Ivy League Colleges were tested, a few years back, and the Freshmen made higher test scores than the SAME tests given to Seniors.
    Also, 1895 eighth grade test questions were provided to some of our Master Degreed people, and none could pass the test. That is a sure sign of the times..
    It IS further proof of the dumbing down of our education system, and our citizens in this country.
    China has MORE trained excellence in the Science and Math area, than America. Public education is quite a failure, for the huge amount of monies being spent. The cirrriculum is dumbed down, and school districts across America are failing in teaching EVEN the basics. ( even in many middle class schools )
    The current medical system, is another complete failure. It needs to be completely overhauled, as well. Medical protocol is being dictated by drug companies who ONLY treat sysmtoms….NEVER cure any disease.
    I was in line at a buffet and mention that about ill our people are. A woman doctor interjected, I was right. The medical and financial, and educational systems ARE all BROKE in America. or are currently breaking us, dumbing us down, and killing us, as well.

    Like

  26. Mageen, did you read my oost to Alaskapi?
    The Jesuits, according to. Dr. Veith are the culorets ( which the Pope is one of) has been behind devestation of the whole of civilization for centuries.
    Their agenda IS being wirked out by the church.
    Check out onslaught, by Dr. Walter Veith?
    The NWO IS marching on, with their ultimate agenda of eradicatiing 90% of the world population. They used the wars, the Nazi regime, the eugenics of birth control, and ABORTION, the genicides they create by controlling the money in all the countries with the Central Banks they set up through Rothschild in Europe and here in America through Rockafella.
    The Roman church, according to Veith, IS the whore of Babylon, it was paganistic from the beginning in 300 A. D.
    The Jesuits ARE the Knights Templar, Great White Brotherhood, later changing their name to Masons, ( after the French King killed most off to get their wealth to fight a war, at the time ) the Jesuits began infiltrating all religions, and organizations, and running schools, and took over the roman church, on two documented occasions in history. Even the church fathers proclaimed the Jesuits EVIL through their popes over the centuries, in their church documents. They were expelled twice, I believe from the roman church.
    Even our Lincoln, in a letter kept by his son, stated that wherever the Jesuits went, under the guise of educating the poor, all over the world, poverty soon followed, they STOLE all the natural resouces of that country. Loncoln said they were evil and that we should stay away from them.,, on,y a shortime later, it was thought the Jesuits were behind him being killed.
    These Templar/ Jesuits WERE THE FIRST MAFIA. Money gets a lot of things done in this world. They are still and are the largest CULT of actual devil worshippers. ( Bohemian Grove, CFR, Margaret Sanger, and ALL the elitists are part of this class of evil. Read, history WILL reveal itself to you.
    They hide in plain site,but because they control the medias…..the averafe person will NEVER know)
    Alaskapi, those same elitists are ALL over the world. They are the past Kings and Courts of all the lands from past history. They ARE blood related, and still rin the world.
    The original Templars recruited the sons of the Kings to insure their coffers were filled, because they had to give up their wealth to join.
    It was said that they were devil worshippers, even back in like 1120 A.D. or so.
    Bad stuff is going on today by these guys. The church, as I have mentioned in earlier posts, changed everything man could change about the one true God, it is suppose to serve, over the ages.
    The Jesuits ARE why the Christ followers ARE so confused and HATED.
    They throw bad light on God, Himself. They do do not exemplify God.

    Like

  27. Read this carefully chrispy- economic policy which is pure BS and got us in terrible trouble but boy, dang, whoopee, we can blame poor people for their own plight, ennit?

    “Neoliberalism[1] is a term whose usage and definition have changed over time.[2]

    Since the 1980s, the term has been used by scholars[3] and critics[4] primarily in reference to the resurgence of 19th century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism. Beginning in the 1970s and 1980s, its advocates supported extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to enhance the role of the private sector in the economy.[2][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12] Neoliberalism is famously associated with the economic policies introduced by Margaret Thatcher in the United Kingdom and Ronald Reagan in the United States.[5] The transition of consensus towards neoliberal policies and the acceptance of neoliberal economic theories in the 1970s are seen by some academics as the root of financialization, with the financial crisis of 2007–08 one of the ultimate results.[13][14][15][16][17]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

    Like

  28. also- most of the rest of the stuff you call genocide is BS.
    Thank the conservative dismantling of social protections since Reagan for environmental damage and destruction we live with, with the loss of decent pay and jobs for Americans to save a few cents on the hundred, and so on. The loss of life expectancy is not genocide- it is the realistic fallout of bad economic policy which values dollars more than people AND blames poor people for being poor… terribly un -Christlike, ennit?

    Liked by 1 person

  29. chrispychris said:

    Alaskapi
    I just thought of other instances of genocide. We had one here when the Bankers pulled the rug out…in the 1928 Crash…
    The same was played out a little differently, but nonetheless a Crash in 2008.
    All indications say another is to take place in the next month or so, similar to what took place in Greece.
    __________________________________
    Neither was genocide. Rwanda was genocide, what started in Chechyna, the Sikh genocide in India, the Holocaust, and others in modern memory are genocides.

    Genocide requires intent and organization.

    “Genocide is the systematic murder or destruction of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_%28disambiguation%29

    Both of your examples were the complex fall out of bad economic policy and while people suffered inordinately and many died, that is called “excess mortality” ,mortality in the general population above and beyond what should be occurring per health issues, accidental death, etc.
    (And ya know it happened in Russia after the Soviet Union breakup? Big time. And all we did was dance about the wicked witch being dead…)

    Alaska Natives and other indigenous peoples of the Americas were targeted and destroyed not by elitists but by greedy white peoples wanting land and property who flowered a lot of it over with Christian crap about the necessity of killing “savages” and the like if they couldn’t bully and/or enslave them .

    ————————————————————–
    If you are indeed the real estate broker I remember from quite awhile ago, your arguments about people who lost everything in the housing bubble crash being responsible for 1- that crash, 2- anything which befell them , etc etc you are not and never have been a liberal.
    If I stack myself up to most of the folks who visit here, I am very, very , very far left- think socialist, libertarian left .
    Most of the folks who visit here are moderately left. They tolerate me because I am fully aware I am an outlier and have no illusions that all or most people will ever agree with me on many, many issues. Nor do I insult them about being non-thinking ( translation: if you look at everything I do you will automatically agree with me because it is the only truth derivable from said info. Pffft! patently false), will suffer in an afterlife, blah, blah, blah.

    —————————————————————————————–

    Like

  30. OK. Check out what the Pope just said about forgiving abortion. I can hear heads exploding already!

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Alaskapi
    I just thought of other instances of genocide. We had one here when the Bankers pulled the rug out…in the 1928 Crash…
    The same was played out a little differently, but nonetheless a Crash in 2008.
    All indications say another is to take place in the next month or so, similar to what took place in Greece. Bankers, like oil companies can use any excuse to charge, over charge, and rob folks of their money.
    Between 1930-1940, in the U.S. Census, we lost some 7 million people. There were tent cities all over America. 25% of our population was farmers, so many at least ate. City folk ( let us pray that does not happen ever again ) had no way to support their families, or feed them. They lived in tents, and scavenged and many starved to death. There were piles of dead bodies in every city, being buried in Potters Fields all over America. The History Books, being written by the elitists NEVER go into detail on the subject.
    Even New York City’s Central Park was a site for a large Tent City, during those post 1928 Crash Years.
    Also, Alaskapi, we are in the middle of another genocide, which includes the abortion issue, and at least as important, the one being put on to our older citizens by the Food and Drug Administration.
    The FDA does NOT protect our people from the POISONS being added to our water supply, such as the fluoride, and chlorine. This is a real threat to America. The other two products involved in this mass genocide being committed on America that the rest of the world knows about and has been fighting in their respective countries is the legal drug market by the medical system and the food supply by multi-national corporations who process the majority of all food stuffs sold in America.
    All in All, the genocide has produced a decrease in America’s life expectancy by two years, according to cia.gov in 2010, over the last Census taken in 2000.
    ( now 78, men…and 80, women )

    Like

  32. Cynthia,
    The blog was not taken over by a fanatic.
    I will repeat again,

    If the subject was not as contravercial, and the bullets were not flying at me from the many people on this blog who have such different opinions than the 51%, who believe abortion is only appropriate when the life of the mother is at stake, I would not have been hanging out with you all.
    If the subject was a bit less contravercial, and the bullets were not being as rapidly fired, I would have walked a while back.
    Maybe, looking back, I was suppose to shake your thinking up. Maybe, at some later time, some little seed planted will bring you fruition.
    We get upset, about a subject, sometimes a little voice inside is telling us to change our thinking.
    Peace be with You, Cynthia

    Like

  33. I am very sorry your family was part of the Indian Killings ( genocide ) that took place by the elitiests….who were always in charge of this and every other government., worldwide. ( Ms. Helen, a 50% Cherokee friend, told me of her mother being hidden under a bush as an infant, to save her life, as the entire tribe was being wiped out by the American Army)
    Many Christians are brainwashed, and manipulated by the same influences as the general population, if they do not think outside of the box, and think outside the mainstream medias and learning sources available.
    A great source is study I finished a while back on Revelation by Dr. Walter Veith, a German South African, now living in Canada. He has a 36 DVD series which ties the history of the church…with the history of man…;and the politics of every war and every world happening to the politics of countries and religion. He claims the Jesuits took over the Roman Church on more than one occasion, and were the Templars…They now control the money, and every world system. I do believe he is right, from all the outside studies,
    I have made for the last 15 years. ( I am a 40 year real estate broker )
    I do NOT advocate religion, as such. I do believe in free thinking, unlike what it appears to you. I have come to my own understanding of how God and man are to be relationally entertwined, but not by the religions we have been inffluenced by over the centuries.
    Veith connected several dots which were not understood by me in his seminars. .
    The series is called Onslaught.
    Why do I hang out here?
    Well, I will restate the subject matter of ABORTION is a FIERY ONE to start with. It is among the top 10 contravercial subjects to make people’s blood boil, or to create opposite reactions like I get from you all.
    This blog is always contravercial. The subjects are usually written from a legalistic thinking standpoint. To me, it has become even more so, than 4+ years ago, when I first joined.
    I was mislead by and for Obama, and was for sure a Democrat, and never a Conservative. When I was very liberal, I was attacked on the porch by everyone.
    Look it up. The thinking on this blog has almost an 360 degree turn in the way people are thinking.
    Abortion is NOT even a good subject to discuss. The outcome for all involved is really not such a happy event. The PP episodes, whether staged or not, has brought light to the reality, to even those who were totally pro-choice, making those change their minds somewhat, because of the horror of the reality of what they do to the fetus….
    Even with the total legal condoning aspects of Abortion, it is still a very horific reality of what is taking place.
    Helen…or whoever, writes, has to KNOW this subject IS a hot button, and still manipulates words to get those engaged,. I guess the goal is to do so?
    I too, am for choice, but, after 68 years, I know the choices we as humans many times make are not always right choices. Most ALL choices we make in life have far reaching efffects, thoughout our lives, AND AFTER this life, as well.
    If the subject was not as contravercial, and the bullets were not flying at me from the many people on this blog who have such different opinions than the 51%, who believe abortion is only appropriate when the life of the mother is at stake, I would not have been hanging out with you all.
    If the subject was a bit less contravercial, and the bullets were not being as rapidly fired, I would have walked a while back.
    Maybe, looking back, I was suppose to shake your thinking up. Maybe, at some later time, some little seed planted will bring you fruition.
    We get upset, about a subject, sometimes a little voice inside is telling us to change our thinking.
    Peace Be With You, Alaskapi.

    Like

  34. Chrispy- well beheadings and the like have rarely been employed in America- well excepting for the genocide of Native peoples , which included all those Christian peoples calling us savages, ennit?

    https://askan8v.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/cultural-genocide-beheading-and-scalping-natives/

    part of the story of my mother’s people :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awa'uq_Massacre

    your linear notion of religion, history, government, etc, etc cannot begin to address the complexity of human experience or knowledge. It is just some foo-foo- recipe which makes you feel comfortable and safe.
    Well- here’s to not always being safe and spending some real time pondering free will, thought, civil and political rights, the divine or lack of it and such like.
    I’m asking again- what in the world are you getting out of squatting here endlessly spewing the same silliness?
    Your religious argument is not tight enough to be adequate to the question either.
    Don’t bother, please, unless you have a direct answer to a direct question.
    And , no, I’m not on any journey where I’m on any path you are on, hon. Never will be.

    Like

  35. What’s Up? Mageen ?
    What are you referring To?

    Like

  36. Molly and All,
    Jesus was crucified for giving the good news. All the followers were killed and persucuted….mostly by beheading and crucifictiion.
    What a horible time he had, when he stood up for the truth of God.
    Some things never change.Two Thousand Years and man is still under the Roman System of law, along with all the trappings that killed the messengers.

    Like

  37. Still waiting to hear from Crispychris the one thing she has never, ever mentioned, the one thing that so many people consider a total tell-all. I will leave you good folk to ponder that one. Not being mean or nasty. I just respect your space.

    Like

  38. This blog has been taken over by a possessed franatic, eh?
    (a frantic fanatic)

    Peace.

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Everyone is still an individual, not in perfection, yet, with differing opinions, within the body of believers. We are all on the same path, some further along, others a little behind. Whatever place we are at, does not matter, God works with us all, at the same time, and in different ways, teaching us all during life, all along the way back to Him.
    We believers, and non belelievers, alike, are a work in progress. Nothing here on earth has reached perfection. Only God is perfect.
    Not even the law of man IS perfect, that is why man’s laws change so much, in the attempt satisfy man. In ancient times, the laws of man usually paralled the laws of God. Not so much, anymore, since the people allowed the laws contolled by the few ungodly to be instituted.
    God’s Commands…..His Laws were the same 2000+ years ago, and STILL stands today, and will be forever. God’s Laws Never Change.
    People within the body of God’s Church do make mistakes. We are expected to merely, turn to God; by that, reaffirming and making Him God. That is all he really expects from man. He knows mankind, the sin nature of man, and he knows the God Spirit part of man, as well. It is important we turn to HIm, no matter what religion. There IS BUT ONE GOD.
    The God of Moses, IS the One True God.
    This ancient God belief system holds true, even today.
    This good news has always fallen on many deaf ears. The Bible spoke of this same thing that is happening on this blog, in times of old. Some things never change on earth. Destruction and desolation.
    Man must stop killing one another….in EVERY FORM.
    May the Spirit Of God take over our hearts and minds.
    We all still have choices to make til our last breath.

    Like

  40. Geytdog! Welcome back from the dead, lady! 🙂

    ~~~~~~

    “Can Godly comments be made and embraced as differing opinions, in relationship to the abortion issue, on this blog?”

    You mean like telling the blog author you wish she’d been aborted, a comment you praised? What is Godly about that? And lying? What is Godly about that?

    Liked by 2 people

  41. Oh Chris. How sad for you. You are a fanatic. The very thing our founding fathers hoped to prevent in our political and legal system. Now that your true colors are out there for all of us to see, I will end this back and forth. You are beyond reach.

    Liked by 2 people

  42. Chris,
    Enough! You are not a person who listens to reason, or one who respects others’ opinions. As for this being “an atheist blog”, who the hell are you to say that about the other posters here? You have no idea. Just stop with the typing (it doesn’t merit being called writing). You’re not persuading anyone here, you’re just offending them.

    Liked by 2 people

  43. I call bullshit here Crispychris-
    You are arguing for the primacy of YOUR religion over all other human activities- civil, political and/or personal.
    While this may work in Chrispy-land, it does not work in the larger scheme of things. Denying others’ religious views, snarking about atheists, saying YOUR God’s rules trump all others? Broken record responses of someone who cannot argue intelligibly.
    Championing nasty Bryan? Just sick, hon.
    Talking about the blog owners the way you do? If it wasn’t Helen, who has always said she gets over people disagreeing with her and suggests others do the same, your buns would have been trounced here way early in this thread.
    So … on top of all this arrogance, pride, and all we have seen you display endlessly here, we have to have the action-comes-with-responsibility lecture from you?
    Pffft!! Double Pffffttttt!!!!
    (If there is a God and if it is yours, and if it sends me to burn forever, I don’t give a damn , dear. I wouldn’t want to spend 2 minutes, let alone eternity in the company of such a creature as you revere.)
    You simply assert things as truth without a shred of evidence which stands up to scrutiny in bright light and sidestep responsibility for your own arguments by waving your hands about it all being your God’s magic.
    I accept your right to your beliefs but ya know, there is a body of philosophical thought which is growing around that so-called epistemic right ( entitlement) which requires a duty to a rigorous truth exercise regarding the belief in question. While you may be able to sidestep the exercise by saying you owe no allegiance to any but God and that trumps all human activity, legal, philosophical, and the like, it is a phony excuse. It is just a refusal to engage meaningfully with others.
    So – what’s up with continuing to hang here and accuse, abuse, and antagonize so many folks? What jollies are you getting out of being a snot?

    Like

  44. Chris,

    Did you not even humble yourself enough to read my post? I have no problem with abortion.

    Also, it is the law in our land that abortion is legal. So is the donation of fetal tissue for medical research. There is a reason no one from PP has been charged with anything.

    Your arrogance is immense……….molly

    Molly,
    Man is arrogant to make laws, some of which go against God’s Laws.
    Abortion IS one false man made law…. Not of God.
    We humans are not to put man made laws ahead of the natural laws of God.
    My words are not from arrogance. I am sorry you do not hear humbleness, when I speak.
    Humbleness IS standing up for God!
    Humbleness is also a boldness for God!
    It is NOT being mealy mouthed, or backing down, from the truth. It does include showing an intense love for God and God’s Creation.
    I am standing in the Gap for You!
    Boy, I surely see why Christ was crucified. I only REPEAT what HE said and stood for, and I am the messenger being attacked, crucified and killed, on paper.
    God has called us to get his Word of Truth out to the World.
    We will all be judged. I am no better than you. I fear the Lord.
    We are called to share God’s good news ( gospel ) with each other. We WILL be judged for not following his commandments.
    We are commanded to share His Word with the World. We are called to be a Light onto the World. Today, more than ever, we need light, and truth. Everything is so messed up. The truth is being so twisted.
    Man is refered to as sheep. Like sheep, they get lost and go off to their own demise. That is why the word sheep is used many many times in reference to man in the bible.

    God IS a Loving God. He loves His Creation more than we can ever imagine.
    He is also a Jealous God. He wants our FULL attention. We are to put nothing ahead of Him in this worldly world. We are to be IN the World, but, NOT OF the world. There are so many diversions and mind traps for man to fall into believing.
    Our minds must be renewed and erased daily of anything that negatively influences us by our being in this world. Going to God for a talk is the best way.
    God is a Vengeful God, when we will be judged for not following His Commands.
    I am being a messenger. Nothing more. I am not better than you.
    I want to serve God, in truth and light.
    Our choices in the end, after all the living, whenever it will end, will bring a judgement. If we choose darkness, we will be in darkness. If we choose light and God’s truth, we will have life everlasting. That is what I believe. That is why you think I am arrogant. I am not, nor, is that my intent.
    What I say to you is not out of arrogance. It is from God’s Word.

    Being Human Comes With Responsibilities. This life is NOT a free ride.
    We have the freedom of choice, but EVEN FREEDOM HAS RESPONSIBILITIES TO MANKIND, and to our Creator, as well.
    Sharing God in regards to the abortion issue is the only goal here, and since I am the main targeted paper sacrifice here, i am.found writing volumes.
    That’s ok with me.
    A lot better people have sacrificed a whole lot more over time, for God’s sake.

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  45. Chris,

    Did you not even humble yourself enough to read my post? I have no problem with abortion.

    Also, it is the law in our land that abortion is legal. So is the donation of fetal tissue for medical research. There is a reason no one from PP has been charged with anything.

    Your arrogance is immense.

    Liked by 2 people

  46. Your flaw, Chris and Bryan, besides ignorance… is pride. You fail to realize that others might know God as well and yet still be fine with abortion. When I was younger, I was a patient at Planned Parenthood. As our hosts have written, they took very good care of me. As an adult, I make donations of time and money not only to PP but also to my church. It is a shame that you define God so narrowly and with the conviction of someone who displays more arrogance than love. And Bryan, the hypocrisy of calling abortion murder and the wishing Helen was aborted. Funny, Chris that you are so desperate for a friend that you failed to pick up on that. …..molly…..

    Chris responds….
    Molly, if you donate to PP and your church, are you aware that they perform abortions? They do other GOOD sevices for women, AND The GOOD services they provide women are not being challenged here.
    The abortions, harvesting and negotiating, and selling of aborted and late term abortion harvesting of baby body parts..is the issue folks are up in arms about. Even if they are simply made up. Edited videos are still videos.
    Ask your minister about what God says in the bible concerning abortions…( you can also google it….and see what the majority of religions say about abortion.)
    26 times in the Bible pregnant women are mentioned as ” with child” that does not sound like a God who would approve of throwing away babies from a mothers womb.
    The mention of ” whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, so you do onto me” ….sounds like it could mean ALL of humanity. We will have to answer for what we do, especially if we do not turn from our wrongs and ask for forgiveness. We are for sure forgiven….but we must make God our God…not OUR choices.
    Utlimately, all of our decisions ( including our mistakes and misunderstandings will have to be taken up between Us and God, individually.) which is why abortion is bad because we shouldn’t be allowed to make that decision on our own. God said this. Google it.
    Whatever WE can accept is ok here on earth, but, what will happen later, does not seem to be really understood and what that will entail.
    If we want to live for today, anything we can conceive, we can achieve.
    If we live for a life after death, that game plan changes. We ARE to follow God? If there is confusion as to what and who he is….there IS NO major religion who professes abortion.
    All talk on abortion brings out the fears of the basic threat against life, itself.
    People in the side of the sanctity of life, WILL become heated. And they will refuse to believe that they might be wrong. And they might even use lies and violence to force others to do as they believe others should.
    People wanting to hide their own sins against God, will find every excuse, and coverup for their sins including maybe, their own abortions. This is a human condition. I am not finding fault, just explaining how we humans operate. That is why such uproars are coming from the other side of the issue.
    Attacking Helen, by only a very few is really a tribute to her, as the subject of abortion is one of the 10 most contravercial issues to EVER to be discussed …anywhere.
    Helen has to have thick skin….or she would not be putting herself out there, with such distain against the abused parts of aborted babies.
    I am not liking this blog, as I once did, but, looking at the subjects of most of past articles, much of the history of this blog has the same types of thoughts.

    Like

  47. BTW…
    It is written in our laws…concerning this…
    Just mentioned in a news broadcast, today, a pregnant woman in St. Louis was murdered. The murderer is being charged with one count of murder for the woman, and a second count of murder for her fetus.
    The murder law does not appear to take into consideration the size or weeks of the fetus after gestation. The murder LAW ALSO ASSUMES IT IS a BABY…..a woman carries in her womb. The law ASSUMES human women beget HUMAN OFFSPRING. ( unlike the abortion law, the murder law DOES NOT dehumanize the fetus.)
    No dehumanizing euphemisms appears to be accepted under the murder law pertaining to mother and child, which calls her baby a fetus….and that it is ALIVE….for all practiclal purposes.
    Actually, a baby through the embilcal cord does receive nutrition, and gets oxygen from the mother. The BABY is actually a living being, within the mother. If oxygen is not provided by the mother, the baby will die.
    How can euphamisms be acceptable to dehumanize a baby the law of abortion, and used to OK the abortion procedure, but, not the MURDER LAWS? There appears to be NO congruence in the law, in relationship to these two laws.
    What a contradiction within the law…when a woman WANTS to KILL HER FETUS ( Baby ) in the WOMB, the abortion law allows her to do so….?
    The euphamistic language makes the mother’s choice sound more acceptable, and quickly changes her stance from being a murderess.
    See how that was done within the law, to change that law to make abortion
    ( murder of a baby ) legal ? All this to make human baby body parts, within a manufacturing plant, and all legal like.

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  48. Your flaw, Chris and Bryan, besides ignorance… is pride. You fail to realize that others might know God as well and yet still be fine with abortion. When I was younger, I was a patient at Planned Parenthood. As our hosts have written, they took very good care of me. As an adult, I make donations of time and money not only to PP but also to my church. It is a shame that you define God so narrowly and with the conviction of someone who displays more arrogance than love. And Bryan, the hypocrisy of calling abortion murder and the wishing Helen was aborted. Funny, Chris that you are so desperate for a friend that you failed to pick up on that.

    Liked by 1 person

  49. Terri,
    Can Godly comments be made and embraced as differing opinions, in relationship to the abortion issue, on this blog? Is this strictly an atheist blog, or can anyone join In conversation?
    Do not use the organized religion card here. Many who are inflamed on abortion, today, are not members of any organized religion.
    We, too, striving to follow God are angry for what we know is a lie concerning what your blog says concerning the promoting of PP and the abortion issue. The attitudes toward this serious subject offends most people who have any kind of relationship with the one Creator, God. This article and your subsequent comments shows an almost inhumane and desensitized attitude toward life, itself. Those who are speaking out against the article do know right from wrong. That is why we object.
    It appears that the desensitizing of the population and the euphemisms used in the terms of description over the last 50 years has made it seem OK, for whatever folks want to do.
    Recently with the spot light being put on the negotiation and bidding for fetus body parts for profit, in spite of whether the the public is for or against abortion, average Americans ARE APPALLED at the THOUGHT of selling body parts. That must be understood…
    Even those for abortion have been alarmed at the abortionists and their handling of fetuses body parts. Fetuses are NOT MERELY BEING DONATED FOR SCIENCE AND the betterment of mankind; THEY ARE BEING SOLD TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, for whatever use.
    ( The changes of law and acceptance of abortion, was made by the few who had an agenda concerning abortion way back 50+ years ago. The Selling of body parts is and has always been … A BIG BUSINESS. )
    Thanks, to Bryan, UAW tradesman, James, and everyone who has a conscience, and knows right from wrong. Keep telling the truth.
    We allow all opinions, even those for abortion, and hopefully, we all still love you, ( I know I do) but we must STILL tell you the truth, our brothers, and sisters.
    Whatever folks choose to do with the information, is up to each of us. I pray you study this matter, more, and ask your own conscience about the truth for you.
    The harvesting and negotiating and selling of fetus, HUMAN body parts and encouraging young girls and women towards abortions FOR MANIFESTING those body parts……is WRONG.

    Like

  50. Bryan,
    If God is watching, I’m pretty sure he won’t like the lies and vitriol you just spewed. Shame on you.

    Liked by 2 people

  51. Bryan, Thank You, for your comment. It is good to hear from a person who understands truth. Our embraced truth is not just our opinions. Our truth comes from God’s character revealed through HIs Word. His Word is truth.
    Many here on this site believe they are actually Christ Followers and or God Followers.
    The beliefs by the majoruty of this blog do not match up to character of God of the old testament, nor the character of the Son of God in the new testament. ( sent tomredeem us from sin. ) Surely, we are to love the sinner and hate the sin, which God followers are suppose to do, but we are NOT to embrace practices that are against the character of the one true God.
    When Cain killed Abel, it was murder. And Cain was punished for it.
    That too will happen to those who choose to sin against God.
    We pay with the real life consequences resulting from our breaking of God’s Laws in our lives.
    When man sins, he is forgiven, when he asks God for forgiveness.
    Since we have free choice, we can choose to have sex, in an inappropriate relationship, which results in a pregnancy, with those involved paying the life long price of their choices. All of us people pay the prices for all kinds of bad decisions we make in this lifetime. Sometimes our life mistakes and the results of our mistakes are far reaching, and last forever. Sex resulting in an unwanted pregnancy is just another of those life choices…when we choose immediate gratification. That is the just the human price we must pay. Giving a child away to another family is what was done in history. The stigma of giving children to other parents, no longer stands. Women have the right to do so, if they do not want to be a mother.
    Today, this same idea of natural consequences is being taught by psychologists, as a means of correcting children without controlling or fighting with them to do the right things. It allows the child to make choices and the outcomes of the child’s actions, whatever they decide to act on. This same principal applies to unwanted pregnancies and abortion, as well.
    Today, few want to take responsibility for their actions, especially our males. ( this side of abortion needs to addressed, to create more responsible males in our society. It IS not all suppose to be on the back of the female. )
    It should be understood, that if a pregnancy occurs, responsibility of taking care of offspring is a possibilty, not just making a trip to an abortion clinic.
    Abortion makes for a MORE very irresponsibile society, who does not take care of its children, only destroys them.

    When sin, like having sex in an inappropriate relationship, which brings a child into the world, a woman, like all of of us making mistakes, will pay the price of mistakes we make on this earth. That is ALSO what happens when we break man’s laws, we pay the price of whatever punishment comes with the crime. Also, with sin against God, when our sins are forgiven by God,, we must still be left to pay the real time life price of our mistakes on this earth.
    Once we are forgiven, We must turn away from sin, at that point, or the forgiveness of sin may not mean anything to God, this will be His ultimate free choice for us.

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  52. Abortion is murder. That is a fact. I wish that the writer of this blog wold have been aborted. All you idiots in here are clueless. Planned Parenthood legalizes murder. Women who go there are forced to have abortions against their will so that the dead baby parts can be sold for a profit to the highest bidder. Wake up morons. God is watching.

    Liked by 1 person

  53. Chrispy is quite the little whiner. Funny how posts from all sides get left here all the time with no one complaining about our hosts. God forbid you admit to your own typos.

    Like

  54. Jean – sounds like you have a Beta. Easy to care for. Needs very little space and can actually take in air from the surface so no pump required. Be careful not to mix two males in the same bowl. They will fight to the death.

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  55. Greytdog! The rumors of your death were greatly exaggerated. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  56. siftin chaff from wheat in the comments list would be so much easier with a bottle scotch.but just remember this. Ben Carson, supremely qualified pediatric nuerosurgeon, pointed out today that he sees woman as part/ Pieces parts. He doesn’t see woman as a whole human being – she is her uterus.She is her vagina. We’re the Chicken McNuggets in the GOP Happy Meal.

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  57. well. y’all have been busy, haven’t you? Catching up on posts here.

    Like

  58. Hi Congenial Gang,

    A dear friend recently gave me a delightful gift! She said that everyone should have at least one living creature to care for and be responsible for. Makes sense to me. My dad was an animal lover to the max so I was raised in the midst of an array of critters – dogs, cats, a horse, and an owl in the barn, that would come to his arm like a hunting falcon. Then there was the terrapin (land turtle) the size of a dinner plate. Daddy spotted it in the road and was afraid it would get run over. It lived in one of the window wells to the basement. Daddy fed it raw hamburger.

    My friend gave me a male tropical fish in a bowl, complete with a little castle and lily pad. I promptly named him Frederich (with the Bavarian spelling and pronunciation). The castle is after “Schloss Neushwanstein”, one of the fairy-tale castles built in the Austrian Alps by Mad King Ludwig. I think Walt Disney patterned his castle motif after this one. (Schloss is the German word for “Castle”.)

    Frederich has a silvery-blue body with lots and lots of bright red lacy fins. Quite a handsome fellow!

    But………after a few days it was determined that poor Frederich was just swimming around aimlessly with nothing to do much but eat. Lonely. So my friend got him a harem of five female fish. Their colors range from combinations of orange and silver to black and yellow. Oh yeah. Things have livened up in the fish bowl considerably.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Like

  59. I do not know what is going on, here. Your administrator to this site, whomever it is, has changed my words, up to sentences…on Aug. 25, at 8:15 p.m. or so, stating I have had several abortions. The sentience before that statement, and the one after, is NOT mu writing. That information has been added to vilify me. It is just true. Helen is a piece of shit.
    My original comment stated …….that MANY have had several abortions …..NOT i HAVE.
    I also blogged on Cynthia’s comment, last night, to agree with her, and add information to what she said about the chemicals killing animals and people from DuPont, and they never appeared, my last comment disappeared and I had re pasted it. With the missing comment, it. made my last added comment look out of context, and not in sinc with her original post.

    I wrote that the buttons and switches of the powers that be have been used here on Margaret and Helen’s to delete and or, change comments.

    Like

  60. Cynthia,
    My opinion is this, in realtionship to the widespread increase of chemical uses and the poisoning of our people, most of the growing mental problems our people are experiencing are being caused by the brain poisoning of our foods like sugarfree chemicals , and by the increased uses of anti-depresants, and ant-psychotics. These everyday shootings are becoming a norm in the world. Can you connect the dots? Do you see the correlation of FOOD / DRUG Administration……Link?
    Most of the people using doctor prescribed drugs, such as anti-depressants , and anti-psychotics actually experience increases of the voices they hear, and MORE of the exact issues they are taking the medication…( chemicals ) to eradicate. .
    That is also known as mind control. Mind poisoning.
    The chemical-drug companies merely say through its doctors….legalized drug pushers, it is the ILLNESS that brings on the shooting results……or, better yet, in order to keep the public from focusing on the drugs, they say the LACK of taking the medication is what causes the episode which makes the patient KILL others.
    All in all, the chemical companies are escaping ALL fault, and even MOST Americans do not connect the dots, and realize the comnection of ill use of chemicals and drugs to what is taking place in our society.
    The FDA only need two positve trials to pass a drug, while the same drug may have 18 NEGATIVE results in the same testing of the drug.
    See how the Alphabet agencies regulate themselves, they are past CEO’s of the same corporations they are suppose to regulate…..They are suppose to keep of the whole 330 million Americans safe from all chemcals and drugs that they regulate. They are not doing their job.
    Notice all the disclaimers on each TV add for EACH drug mentioned. As soon as several hundreds of thousands are damaged or killed, they are mostly all over time, pulled from the market. ( only to be re introduced at a later time…..several years later. )

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  61. Forgive me, chance of subject.

    I find this article and subject most disturbing. duPont and 3M Co. knew there was a huge problem and did nothing, This impacts more than just W VA if this information is correct.

    http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/welcome-to-beautiful-parkersburg/

    Peace.

    Liked by 1 person

  62. PS – where’s the outrage over the already born, bright young people who were gunned down on live television yesterday by a guy who never should have had a gun?

    Liked by 2 people

  63. Forensic evidence the Lyin’ for Jesus crowd did in fact lie. Total manipulations, including lies swallowed and regurgitated here on this blog.

    “On one video, a Planned Parenthood staff member’s remarks about lab protocols were edited to make it sound like she was talking about changing abortion procedures. Phrases on the tape were isolated and removed, stringing together unrelated sentences to change the meaning.

    Anti-abortion activists used the doctored “quote” to support false claims that she was talking about changing how an abortion would be done, and the “quote” was published by mainstream media as if it were real.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/planned-parenthood-sting-videos-forensic_55df2334e4b029b3f1b1be9f?kvcommref=mostpopular

    and

    http://crooksandliars.com/2015/08/planned-parenthood-submits-report-congress

    Liked by 1 person

  64. The people receiving furniture from the Charity we started are shown God’s Love by

    Like

  65. Crispychris, there is such a thing as Christic silence. We were taught eons ago that silence can speak louder than words when the occasion is right. It did not necessarily mean acceptance. We were also taught that actions speak volumes, a concept that led myself and my circle into social ministry work. Over the years we have maintained a central supply house of gently used furniture, etc. for folks who were having a hard time. None of these items were accompanied by a lot of palaver regarding our faith. There were “thank you” and “you’re welcome” and that was about it. The majority of us involved in this work had been on the receiving end at some point. If the receivers were ever interested in our beliefs, they knew where we were and how to reach us. Over time, some of them did. For those who did not, we do not consider them “lost”. Wherever they are, God is in the room with them.

    Liked by 2 people

  66. Hi Congenial Gang,

    After we retired but before we got too old and decrepit, we liked to travel – globe trotting – especially cruising while spending our kids and grand-kids inheritance. One of our best cruises most recently was to the Greek Islands in the Aegean Sea. We of course visited Kos, the home of Socrates, the father of medicine, and saw the famous plane tree under which he lectured to his students. That old tree is still living!

    Also we visited Patmos, the island to which John the Apostle was exiled for quite a while. That’s where he and his amanuensis wrote the final book of the Christian Bible, “The Apocalypse” also known as “Revelations”. They lived in a cave and John had a round stone for his pillow. Actually, living in caves has been a common occurrence in the Middle East forever. Not as bad as it sounds. Cool in summer and warm in winter with no insects.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I read somewhere sometime that only about 6% of the world’s population claims to be Christian. But one of the common complaints I have heard from so-called “Non-Christians” is that Christians enjoy suffering too much what with martyrdom and all the gory details therein described.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

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  67. Hypocrite. As usual.

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  68. Chrispychris10 go away…………….you are annoying and trying to take over this wonderful blog. I believe you are a paid agitator trying to destroy this wonderful blog. Your rants are so boring. I have followed Margaret and Helen for quite a few years and you do seem to have some traits of other disruptive personalities that have visited Margaret and Helen in the past.
    Just GO AWAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like

  69. But there’s this nagging thing that I believe, which was originally stated by Thomas More, centuries ago: In the law (at least our tradition of law), silence is construed to indicate acquiescence. If you don’t protest, it is assumed you agree.” gato

    I agree with you. Some times you need to take a stand. If you don’t stand for something; you will stand for anything. Someone once said…country/western song?

    Besides it is nice to see this blog alive again. I too have been here from almost the beginning of it. I hate seeing it die a long slow death.

    Peace cynthia

    Thank You, Both, Gato and Cynthia,
    What you both say , here is why I speakout like I do. I have had many abortions and even though I had that choice I realize it was the wrong choice. Others should not be allowed to make the same mistakes.
    If we do not stand up for something…..we will fall for anything.
    I am glad to bring discourse to this site. We do need to discuss issues in this oountry today, more than ever.Discussions bring out issues and ideas and more understanding from all sides.
    .
    Funny, Gato, you speak of Sir Thomas More, St.Thomas More,( who was cannonized as a saint by holy mother the church iin like 1937? )
    More was in King Henry VIII court and was against Henry leaving the Church, when the Pope refused an analment ? from a marriage to Catherine of Aragon, daughter of Isabella and Ferdinand of Spain. The Reformation was in full swing, and More did not want Henry to leave the church for his own indulgences.
    The Pope at the time, a Medici, I believe, was catering to Charles V, the Holy Roman Emperor, who was the nephew of Catherine of Aragon. Charles mother was Catherine’s sister.
    More spoke up and told the King Henry VIII what he thought. He was charged with some type of insurrection….( speaking against the King ) was condemned to death and beheaded.
    Most times in history, those speaking out against the status quo, usually those in power are punished. That is how it goes…Kill the messenger.
    I do honor your choices, here. I just do not think they are the right choices.
    Sir Thomas More suffered for telling what he felt in his heart. ( He also knew the King was in the mode of getting his way, by putting his wife aside, for another woman. He understood how Henry manipulated the church……and was setting God aside, to get his way…. no matter what was right.
    More was aware of Henry;s thirst for power over others and understood Henry’s thirst for controlling even God would never end, nor …..would his thirst ever be quenched
    We can parrallel this point to the abortion issue. We must be careful to not want what we want sooo much that we set the natural laws of God aside.
    Partial Birth Abortion is doing this….
    To use birth conrol and to have an abortion IS between a woman and her God.
    When WE THE PEOPLE GET CAUGHT UP AND ENTANGLED IN DOING IMMORAL THINGS LIKE KILLING A LIVE. ALREADY ABORTED FETUS……or NEGOTIATING PRICES for fetuses specific organs, used for hopefully, as they say, medical research.; the majority (51%) will be up in arms against it. We do, evidently feel it IS an atrosity.
    Last week I checked out a DVD from the library on the BIG business of selling human body parts. It did not play correctly…I have a reserve on it, to be informed, after the disc is cleaned.
    The documentary was by Discovery, Public Television, or the History Channel . I will let you know…what the documentary is about.
    This practice is being carried out around the world……and IT IS NOT JUST BEING DONE FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH.

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  70. “But there’s this nagging thing that I believe, which was originally stated by Thomas More, centuries ago: In the law (at least our tradition of law), silence is construed to indicate acquiescence. If you don’t protest, it is assumed you agree.” gato

    I agree with you. Some times you need to take a stand. If you don’t stand for something; you will stand for anything. Someone once said…country/western song?

    Besides it is nice to see this blog alive again. I too have been here from almost the beginning of it. I hate seeing it die a long slow death.

    Peace.

    Liked by 2 people

  71. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Thx to most of you for giving me something to cogitate about. You may not know this, but I have had several careers – by choice – and about now i’m thinking – if I had it all to do over again, I think I would like to study linguistics. Language has sooooooo much to do with shaping culture along ethnic and the so far, socio-economics constraints of local, regional provincialism. That may be a good thing up to a point in terms of stability . . . . . . . .but, doesn’t make for individual progress. Too much lock-step conformity.

    Well, If that’s what our forefathers thought and said, then…………………

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Like

  72. The upside of CC’s tiresome screeds is that we get to read all the cogent, well-written, thoughtful responses from some posting here. I thinking of you Gato, Cynthia, Mikat and others. Well done and thanks. A pleasure to read.

    Liked by 1 person

  73. Hi Gato, Aunty, Delurker, Alaska, Whirled and so many others,
    I have been here mostly reading, occassionally putting my 2 cents worth in, since way back in 2008. It is people exactly like this CC person (I use the term person loosly) that get my blood boiling. So full of judgement, so convinced that woman are too stupid to be able to make their own informed decisions, so ready to use God as a stick to beat anyone who disagrees with them down. There are so many questions they are unable to answer.
    How is it that if we have been given free will to make our own choices they are always in our collective face telling us we must stop doing what ever it is “they” deem wrong and do it “their” way. If I am wrong, then I will meet my maker and be judged at that time, if I am wrong it is between me and my creator, PERIOD!
    I would like these people to concentrate on the children who are already here, that need help, support, education, jobs, housing, food and so much, much more. I would like them to work out a way for children to come into this world to a loving family that is prepared for them. How is it OK to have a 10,12,15 year old child wi a baby? How does stopping HER life and hopes and dreams make it better some how by saddling her with a baby?
    These people forget that not everyone is able to be a parent, some people do not want to have children. Are we supposed to just forget about all the little girls born to us? After all how can they have plans, dreams, a FUTURE, if all they are is brood mares in waiting?
    Nevermind the people already challanged with mental health issues, ect..
    Apparently only boys dreams and plans count. After all if you have 10,12,15,20 children you are hardly going to be able to have a career. Most people barely have enough money for one or two children in daycare. Once you have three or four, most CHOOSE to be at home mothers if they can.
    I would venture to say that any man who has a dozen children is going to be very hard pressed to afford them and the very things they require to become productive adults in their own right.
    Pre-K, daycare, housing, food, clothing, medical care, toys, books, school supplies, sports equipment, EDUCATION are very costly.
    You cannot have it both ways, either you have government assistance with families OR you give people the choice to keep their family the size they can support. Comes right back to Choice, funny that way, isn’t it?

    Like

  74. Powerful stuff, Mikat, full of truth and compassion – and, yes, HUMANITY. Thanks for posting it.

    It reminds me of those creatures from the Westboro “Baptist church” who go to the funerals of people they don’t even know and brandish their “God Hates Fags” signs. (As far as I know, BTW, god doesn’t “hate” ANYTHING he/she has made, which is absolutely everything, if one is a believer…)

    It is tempting to just hit “delete” on every single post, especially since doing so usually DOES eventually cause a ranter to go elsewhere… But there’s this nagging thing that I believe, which was originally stated by Thomas More, centuries ago: In the law (at least our tradition of law), silence is construed to indicate acquiescence. If you don’t protest, it is assumed you agree.

    That one little kid who finally said, in front of everybody, “The Emperor has no clothes!” has become a legend in our culture. I keep thinking of him… I’m certainly not suggesting that everyone “should,” or needs to, but I do. We all must do what we feel is right. And that’s the whole point, isn’t it?

    Gato

    Like

  75. Auntie Jean,
    There are two types of abortion. Your description you speak of is not the type of abortion being objected to.
    A WANTED abortion is other type. Within that group, of chosen abortions, the ones being objected to is where the fetuses are being negotiated for monetary gain, as well as, the ones being killed on the way out of the womb, and the ones being aborted LIVE and immediately being killed on the table, afterward.
    Some intact fetuses are being killed while crowning at the birth canal during birth process. Some are being born while aborted, totally intact…and while outside the womb, are being are killed by stabbing them under the chin and through the mouth up through to the brain with a surgical instrument.
    Some abortion technicians with morality and sensing the value of life are whistle blowing on these procedures.
    These situations occurring during abortions is an everyday common occurrence, and have handled like this since abortions were made legal, 50 years ago.
    NOW, after all these years, upon learning of these acts being committed and either having had an abortion, or not caring, or JUST not knowing, have been desensitized to the what is taking place with LIVE and Partial Birth Abortions. We MUST question these practices, which I am sure MANY AMERICANS DO NOT understand what THOSE terms mean in relationship to the abortion process. If we allow these types of abortions to continue, it means we are becoming totally desensitized to the human sanctity and value of all life; which includes all life from pediatrics to geriatrics.

    Like

  76. I will not address the outlyer, but I will say this. I am so damn sick and tired of the right to life’ers extreme ignorance. What in the world do they think would happen if EVERY pregnancy ended in a live baby? First there is no way the earth could keep up with the resources needed to feed Billions and Billions of people. Never mind the jobs needed, the housing, the roads, highways, emergency services, WATER, (we are already at the crossroads of uncertainty when it comes to water and food) sewage and on and on and on…
    The absolute and complete ignorance of the fact that millions of babies are born right now in places that do not allow abortion already, these babies are unwanted, uncared for and placed in “orphanages” where they are given very basic care, no love, no toys, not education, just a bed and some food. See if that doesn’t raise some very unhealthy mental Health issue’s in the future!
    How about all those babies right now, right here, who are being abused, beaten, starved and unwanted? Where are the places for them? where is the help for them? Try to open a paper or watch the news and NOT find a story about an abandoned or beaten child dying. Do NOT tell us we must bring a child into this world that we can NOT support, love and nurture as a child requires, to grow into a healthy productive adult. Women make the choice after many hours and days of thinking, it is never an easy choice and it is never done lightly, but it must be respected as a CHOICE. When people step forward and offer real HELP for a pregnant woman, money, housing, food, jobs, resources and perhaps in some cases protection from an abusive spouse or boyfriend. When there is Sex education and free birth control available, THEN you can rant about abortion!
    Try looking up the word CHOICE… it means that you do not have to do something if you do not want to. Throwing the name of your God around will NEVER change that. After all didn’t He/She give us FREE WILL?
    You cannot and will NOT take my right to MY BODY away from me!

    Liked by 1 person

  77. Can we all ignore Chrispy now? It’s getting to be a bit tedious don’t you think? Maybe it will go away and enjoy its bliss.

    Like

  78. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Every teacher/professor I ever had who was worth his/her salt emphasized “Define your terms.”

    Well, “Ruptured ectopic pregnancy in left Fallopian tube caused by endometriosis. Self, age 33. Lying in a pool of pain and blood, but rescued by emergency surgery. Seven-week old embryo already deprived of oxygen and dead.

    Medically defined as an “abortion”, “miscarriage” or what?

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Like

  79. Gato, in regards to your 4:10pm comment today….
    Spoken like a lawyer representing his client, Planned Parenthood.
    Legal Eagle….

    Like

  80. Terri,
    Even though we are of different opinions, thanks for the discourse.

    Like

  81. Chris,
    For God’s sake, please buy a dictionary, take a grammar course, use spellcheck and stop preaching here. It’s getting annoying.

    Like

  82. I am not under the impression that you have “multiple accounts” here since, as far as I can tell, you – with an occasional backup from UAW and one or two others, at the most – seem to be perfectly capable of offering up plenty of “barraging” entirely on your own.

    I do not argue with your right for you to have your own personal moral principles, or your right to express them – but I DO argue with your name-calling, your dehumanizing of others who post here expressing OUR moral principles, your arrogant position that only YOU hear the voice of god, and your insistence that lies and deception are perfectly acceptable tools for promoting your own personal agenda.

    I am certainly not insensitive to the complexities of facing an unwanted pregnancy. I’ve been there, even with the most advanced birth control that was available at the time – and it happened before abortion was legal. I was lucky. I had resources, and a doctor who believed, ahead of his time, that the decision should be mine, and mine alone. And, no, it was not easy.

    You make a grave error, IMO, in assuming that people who support the right of a woman to elect to terminate an unwanted pregnancy are “heartless” and/or inhuman. Supporting that right is NOT the same as promoting the idea that everyone should do it. Somehow, you are apparently totally convinced that every fetus is a “human,” but anyone who disagrees with your POV is not.

    In my opinion, THAT is “heartless”…

    Gato

    Liked by 1 person

  83. You all mention,stockmarket crashes, and earth quakes and tsunamis are all here to stay.
    You all may soon loose all your money, and the world may very well be destroyed, soon.
    God JUST might be ready to do what he fortold he would do… These are ALL the same things he spoke of , which you make fun of, when I mention God to you, You do not believe he says what he means and means what e says He the words to man…..through his prophets some 2000-4000 years ago.
    Good Luck….because that is what you beleive in and what your words refect herein.
    Read about the character of God, and see what he is like and what pleases him.
    The belief system you reflect on Margaret and Helen does not match those of the Judeo – Christian basic life values, no matter what sects you belong to. The 2 basic precepts on life are the same ….they ARE for the sanctitiy of life.
    The values herein, DO reflect those on the Aithiests websites….however.
    May the Peace of God Be With You..

    Like

  84. Your words are so carefully chosen and this very sad and very human subject is discussed by you in such dehumainzed terms. All your comments for the most part thoughout this site is SO uniformly slanted, and ALL your aguements resemble those of professional debaters,; such as seasoned lawyers, or, law professors, or even judges.
    You accused me of having multi accounts which are barraging you with the same pro life agenda/
    I SAY YOU may be guilty of consistently feeding this blog with totally slanted PRO- ABORTION comments, coming from only a few of you with several accounts.

    Holly, the stripped shirt lady in the video….held the “BABY” in her two cuped hands. It WAS a BABY BOY with legs and arms, and a face. It was too big and heavy to put It into the containers made for fetuses. She had to force the legs into the cannister.
    The Largest sized FETUS she described was NOT a baby animal, polar bear, or panda bear, as you readily liken it to. What is YOUR reasoning for dehumanizing….what you really KNOW is a BABY.
    IT WAS The MOST gestated fetus …..the largest she had ever seen. A HUMAN BABY; that was an intact fetus, it had a face, The other lab worker TAPPED THE HEART and wala…..a HEARTBEAT…
    The heart nbeating was NOT a MUSCLE CONTRACTION OR REFLEX>
    That heart beat beginning was part of what happens in childbirth, when a child finally starts breathing on its own…..AND CRIES OUT LOUD.
    Holly was asked to put a hole through an incission that was made from under the chin, and was told to drive scissors UPWARD to poke a hole up through the face, and through the brain.
    wOw ! You all who do not see the wrong in this must come from another planet, or have lost their humanity…You do not deserve to call yourselves humans, if you do not see the wrong in the murder of other humans.
    They will soon be coming for the old. ( they actually are commiting another genicide on another front with doctor prescribed drugs, vaccinations, and the poisoning of our water and GM foods, and all the corporate controled chemically processed foods ) ….With all this, they ARE out to kill you., too. That was the agenda of Hitler…and his regime… We are all at their corporate mercy, and ALL your comments reflect ONLY that you are brainwashed with the self killing act of abortion …..and are agreeing into walking into your own version of the gas chambers..

    Read your own comments ….they are pretty cutting, cruel and profess self anilation.

    Like

  85. OF COURSE it “matters” whether or not Ms. “Holly” was planted. I have no way of knowing whether or not she was, but, since everything else about this whole assault is based on deception and falsehoods, one would be inclined to think she was…

    Even if she weren’t, what the hell did she think she might be doing as a “technician” at a stem cell research company? Did she maybe think that “Stem Express” was a gardening group, and that she’d be doing some sort of weeding, out in the greenhouse…? For heaven’s sake… That makes about as much sense as someone sighing up to be a firefighter and then being appalled at discovering she was asked to go into a burning building…

    I have to wonder, too, why the “Center for Medical Progress” decided to interview someone working for Stem Express, and then use that to go after Planned Parenthood? Why aren’t they all over Stem Express? Maybe because what they’re dong is perfectly legal…?

    And, finally, saying that it was perfectly fine to use a photograph of a stillborn baby as an “exemplitory vision” of what “Holly” says she saw, is about as reasonable as interviewing someone saying she was appalled at having to kill pandas, and then using a photograph of a polar bear as an “exemplitory vision” of a dead baby panda.

    If, in fact, that photograph was taken from someone’s blog, and used without permission of the person who originally posted it, I hope the original poster sues the “Center for Medical Progress” for everything they’ve got – and wins. Talk about “insensitive.” THAT is disgusting.

    As I believe Lurker said, if you can’t make your case with at least a modicum of truthful information, maybe you just DON’T HAVE A CASE…

    Gato

    Like

  86. I cannot believe the “Lying for Jesus” crowd stooped so low as to lift a very personal picture of a stillborn baby from a grieving mama’s blog. If you can’t make your case using the truth, then you aren’t qualified. It’s OK – everyone has their own spiritual gifts. Lying is never one of them, of this much I am confident.

    Unrelated:

    The Fall Of The Middle Class Is Starving The Economy Of Its Most Basic Need
    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/08/24/3694606/hollowed-out-excerpt/

    Liked by 1 person

  87. .It does not matter whether Holly left Stem Express because of the atrocity she observed, or whether she was planted there. She did so, because of what she did earn about the actual business operations of the company.
    Whether she was planted because of inside whistle blowing, or not, it does not matter.
    That is your speculation….the fact remains and is MOST important is what she found; the faulty or bad the StemExress operation was NOT part of her job description as was originally described, upon her hiring. I suppose you were never surprised with the intricacies of a position you landed, which was NOT what not explained at hiring !
    Companies many times do not describe the actual tasks required as part of the job description; to new hire’s, which may be either too labor intensive, or the tasks may not be in line with a persons personal ethics, especially, if it a LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION! How uncaring your statement sounds in relationship to the seriousness of what Holly experienced.
    Laborer workers usually run into this more often than administrative people.

    The baby shown in the video may have been shown as an exemplitory vision of the age of the actual fetus she was told to kill, since her testimony had NO actual pictures.. It was merely used as a visual reference to her verbal testimony.

    Like

  88. A few more lies:

    1. CA, OR and WA are the only states where PP can harvest tissue/organs for research.

    2. Holly O’Donnell explicitly applied to StemExpress as a contract procurement technician. She resigned after 34 days of work. (she got what she came for??)

    3. Regarding O’Donnell’s claims that, after removal, the fetus’ heart began to beat, the physician comments that,

    “It’s totally possible that the heart would beat. I understand how someone could see that and that it might be alarming to them, but I can’t stress enough how much these are involuntary movements. The heart is a muscle — and muscles respond even outside of their normal [physiological] context. You can study muscle tissue in a petri dish, and it is going to twitch. It’s totally possible she saw movement — but that has nothing to do with life….I understand how she…didn’t understand what it was, but [seeing the heart beat] doesn’t have any implications for life or pain.”

    http://reverbpress.com/sexes/women/watch-subversive-anti-choice-group-posts-another-bogus-abortion-video/

    Peace.

    Like

  89. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Don’cha just love a good ole fashioned conspiracy theory, especially on a Sunday afternoon after you have read how much money you have saved in all the newspaper ad supplements. Here is the classic one with a fervent religious twist jic you haven’t heard it this week.

    You do know how accurately seismic activity even centuries ago can be measured these days. Stuff like earthquakes and tsunamis. Check out the Crete island of Thera and volcanic eruption of Santorini. And then the Biblical story of Moses (Charleton Heston) parting the Red Sea for the Israelites and the water rushing back in to protect them from the pursuing Egyptians. Whew! A close call!

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Liked by 1 person

  90. HI, Cynthia – What’s really pitiful is that apparently the “Center for Medical Progress” – which is a total misnomer in itself – was unable to find even a SHRED of legitimate material which they could embroider to support their claims, so they had to make up every single bit of it: They were not representatives of a medical research group seeking to obtain fetal tissue; the “woman in the striped sweater” was not an employee of PP (to be fair, that was noted); the depicted “aborted baby” was not aborted, but stillborn; and the mother of that baby did not authorize use of the photo of her son.

    But, of course, “It was explained on George Noory last night…” (Oh, NOW I understand…!)

    Noory is an interesting fellow. His radio talk show, “Coast to Coast,” airs from 1:00 am until 5:00 am, and apparently has several million followers. According to the program’s own website, the program focuses on looking at “occult rituals,” and paranormal events, and currently features posts – among many others – about a haunted Colorado firehouse, and a video of the “pub poltergeist smashing glasses.” And right in there, among those fascinating items, is the Center for Medical Progress’ video fabrication on PP. An interesting amalgam of material, IMO.

    I like to think that I can enjoy the occasional video of glassware being smashed to bits by an invisible hand in some pub as much as anyone – but the source featuring that item would not be the one I would choose for “information” on which to base my moral, ethical, or political decisions. But, hey… apparently some others have no problem with that.

    “I was abducted by aliens, and Planned Parenthood sells baby parts for profit…” I guess, to some, that makes perfect sense, and both are equally believable…

    Go figure!

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  91. Another lie!!!!

    “The latest video takes despicable to the next level. Shortly after Holly O’Donnell discusses a procedure she was involved in, the video shows a pair of cupped hands holding a stillborn, complete with a belly button clamp, that the video represents as an aborted fetus. The picture is, in fact, of the very-much-wanted child of Alexis Fretz, whom she named Walter Joshua.”

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/21/stillborn-child-depicted-as-aborted-fetus-in-desperate-new-video-by-pro-life-liars-video/

    Peace.

    Liked by 2 people

  92. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Gato, you are a genius! You just gave me a brilliant idea. Put Peas on it. He knows his way around the internet and technology better than anyone and for sure has the skills to put 2 plus two plus two plus two together for the correct answer. Thanks Peas.

    (1.) Gambling interests in Hawaii for building a “Pacific Las Vegas”. (2.) Yalie objections to. (3.) Iniki, 9/11/2002.

    Hmmmm. “Act of God” or …………. “of such things are myths and superstitions made”.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Liked by 1 person

  93. All of Politics is constant smear campaign against the opponent.
    Planned Parenthood is a Major Corporation getting funding from hyphen Federal Goverrnment. Of course, they will go down without fighting.
    The videos and comments are very voluntary of the part those filnpmed within the organization. It is mentioned over and over by ALL the folks that they do sell parts! but must be careful as to not be CAUGHT.

    The Rebubs mostly do smear campaigns, but now since both parties are working towards the same goals of globalization and working for the one world govt., their agendas ARE the same. It is called thesis and anti thesis, when you pit one faction against another, and you cause friction, you either have one faction wipe out the other! or discredit the one you want to get rid of, eventually! you still get your way. It was explained on George Noory last night, picking parties is likened to choosing electrocuted over being hung.
    Americans will loose either way.
    That is the choices and smears politicians do to each other to confuse us to vote, or not…..they still win, either way, by owning both candidates.
    The smearing is a mere continuation of business as usual.
    I was told once, while in a political battle with cities over eminent domain, that
    ALL politicians know it is OUR RATS against THEIR RATS. What you refer to is part of what takes place real behind all the closed doors! and they still get agendas accomplished. ALL their agendas have been met. ( that was told to me by a former asst. atty. gen. of John Danforth.
    Whirled Peas
    There will be NO world peace. We have had a 100 year war, or, 200 year world war happening since the War of 1812. It seconds hoe you choose to look at it.

    This below is the synopsis and excerpts from an email sent out by the show, Coast to Coast which aired last night.

    I am pasting from here below. This IS VERY connected to what you mentioned in your post….. : George Noory DOES NOT ENDORSE ANY CANDIDATES. I am not rambling..your smear comment IS very connected to my answer, herein.

    Filling in for George, Richard Syrett welcomed researcher and author, Don Jeffries, whose new work, Hidden History , chronicles a wide variety of issues that have plagued US history. Whether it’s the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Iran-Contra, the Oklahoma City bombing, TWA Flight 800, voting fraud, or 9/11, Jeffries contends that every major disaster or war that we’ve witnessed has somehow been distorted by those who are supposed to be protecting use.

    “It’s a systematic way of doing business, the people in power have been corrupt for a long time and they perpetuate themselves,” Jeffries said. he traced the last 50 years of corruption and cover-ups to the JFK assassination, noting how those behind it provided a “lame and inadequate explanation” in patsy Lee Harvey Oswald. Jeffries suggested JFK was the last president who tried to do things on his own and circumvent the powers-that-be. All candidates since, with the exception of Robert F. Kennedy, have been diehard globalists and warmongers placed into their position of power, Jeffries explained. Decisions about who will be president are made at Bohemian grove, by the Bilderbergs, or at Council on Foreign Relations meetings, he added.

    Jeffries shared his belief about a coming economic collapse and the harm of policies which concentrate wealth into the hands of small few. Donald Trump’s rise in popularity among voters shows that Americans are tired of weak leaders and the homogenized views of the two major political parties, he proposed. Jeffries likened the choice of democrat or republican to choosing between electrocution or hanging, as in his opinion both parties agree on many of the same harmful policies. Those on the left seem devoted to an authoritarian political correctness doctrine and seek to diminish civil rights, while those on the right allow businesses to get away with anything and support concentrating wealth. Jeffries lamented that no contemporary politician is talking about civil liberties, disengaging in world affairs, and putting America first.

    Good Evening…DrInk Up, Girls!

    Like

  94. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Testing, testing. Having trouble putting up my comment. May have to move to a different site.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Like

  95. You’re an awesome researcher, Whirled! Seems like both “sides” have to spend an enormous amount of time slogging through a veritable tsunami of “information,” all the time… At least, from my POV, sites like citizens united or everytown, make it pretty clear who’s in them, who’s doing what, and what their goals are. If somebody took “credit,” from the beginning, for the anti-PP videos, I must have missed it.

    Thanks for the info!

    Gato

    Like

  96. Try again.
    .
    Interesting tidbit…

    Planned Parenthood fights back

    Half-way down the page after the PP services chart:

    At least one conservative consultant working on the anti-Planned Parenthood effort had a hand in the so-called Swift Boat campaign. Peter Robbio represents the Center for Medical Progress; he handled public relations for the book “Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry.” Although the Swift Boat claims were later discredited, they seriously damaged Kerry’s White House hopes.

    So he has experience in smarmy smear campaigns.

    Peace ~ Δ

    Liked by 3 people

  97. Hi Congenial Crew,

    These are some well-documented events, (barring typos.) Hubby and I retired to the beautiful little island of Kauai, HI in circa. 1990. Family raised, work and debt obligations behind us. LIfe was good! We were living the American Dream and building our Dream House. We discovered snorkeling and raising the most gorgeous tropical flowers on earth – umpteen varieties of both gingers and heliconia, to name a few.

    A guy named Darryl Parmenter was a gee-whiz Real Estate developer from all over. He came out and bought up the big ole, beat up “Beach Boy” hotel on the, by far, most choice site of beach front property on the island – – Kalapaki Bay near the harbor and airport.

    While all his rebuilding, re-modeling was going on he was globe-trotting, buying up “Authentic Artifacts” from all over the world as enumerated – – – – daily – – – – by the media. Sound familiar?

    He put in the obligatory golf-course and also dug a large lagoon complete with uniformed Italian Gondolieres to take the guests to and from the hotel to the up-scale shopping center, that was also built. Gettin, the picture?

    More later”,

    Auntie Jean

    Liked by 2 people

  98. Margaret and Helen were vey prescient with their latest title “When Did Pro-Life Become Pro-Lies.”

    Like

  99. Hi, Auntie Jean – What’s the decision? Well, yeah, let’s do it!

    Gato

    Like

  100. Hi Congenial Gang,

    It is decision-making time so we have reached the fork in the road. Lets take it!!!

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Liked by 1 person

  101. Gang,
    No matter hiw much you are for abortion, you must see this.

    http://www.infowars.com/horror-intact-fetus-moves-arms-legs-outside-womb-in-latest-planned-parenthood-video/

    Peace….

    Like

  102. These are not “Planned Parenthood” videos. They are “Center for Medical Progress” videos, made by a California-based anti-abortion group founded by a young man named David Daleiden.

    The videos focus on a meeting with a PP executive named Deborah Nucatola, and were secretly taped by people who pretended to be potential customers for fetal tissue – something that they knew PP could supply, and which they knew was perfectly legal.

    They then edited their footage to eliminate everything Ms. Nucatola said about PP not making any profit on this. She said, more than once, that PP only charged between $30 and $100 per shipment – hardly enough to be considered a “profit,” IMHO. All that ended up on the proverbial “cutting room floor.”

    I will NEVER approach anything with an “open mind” that gives lies, deceit, and deception as much credence as truth.

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  103. Gato,
    Here are several,of the SEVEN Planned Parenthood Videos. The last two links a few articles describing who these folks are in the videos. They are Doctors…and High ups in the PP organization. Note their titles….
    These videos …some photos taken of the actual fetuses and later trimester abortion fetuses, some born near full term.. They are graphic and very brutal.
    See the seventh video, I believe with the lady with glasses and a horizontal striped sweater. She is who picked the infant up in her hands, she discuses using an instrument going through the chin, up through the brain, while the infant was outside the mothers body,

    The utube page with many of the seven of the Planned Parenthood Videos.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2015/07/21/i-want-a-lamborghini-planned-parenthood-employee-caught-talking-about-the-sale-of-fetal-body-parts-n2028198

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/politics/anti-abortion-group-releases-second-planned-parenthood-video/

    Check them out, please, with an open mind….
    Wow!

    Like

  104. Gato, the Lamborghini video was an earlier post. I will find it and part it.

    Like

  105. Oh, fer chrissakes – Nobody is talking about “selling” body parts here, except you… (And I have NO idea where you got that thing you posted a while ago about selling them “for a Lamborghini.” Very nice car, BTW, but totally irrelevant to this discussion – but “irrelevance” never slows you down, as far as I can tell.)

    We – other than you – are discussing USING body parts from people who have already died, in the hopes of gaining knowledge that will benefit others of our species. How the hell do you think doctors learn stuff…? Maybe through prayer…? Casting the bones and smudging? Incantations? Making stuff up? Does that work for you? (“Yes, I’ve decided to have my open heart surgery performed by someone who’s prayed for guidance as to how to proceed for several weeks now. I’m sure things will go very well…”)

    I will certainly “stand up” in support of my brother’s and sister-in-law’s “rights” to have donated every usable molecule of their dead bodies for medical students to dissect, probe, explore, slice, extract, and study, for as long as the students can find anything useful. And if one student finds one thing that leads her to more knowledge about what contributed to the heart failure that felled my brother, or the cancer that took my sister-in-law, and even one person lives, who otherwise would have died, as a result of that knowledge, I will be on my knees in gratitude to both of them for the generosity and humanity that guided their decisions.

    Actually, I already am.

    Gato

    (Oh, and thanks for clarifying the progenitor of the “ice pick” reference. I’m so relieved to have that set straight; it really makes all the difference, doesn’t it…?)

    Liked by 2 people

  106. I do not trust politicians, but I surely know the Donald is the man of the year.
    He is telling it like it is….he says what’s many of both parties are thinking.
    I am not a Repub. and I have always voted Democrat. My family have all been Dems since forever.
    Today, there really is no difference between the parties, Both parties have been infiltrated and are being influenced and downright controlled by the same corporate interests. They are also very good at pitting ideologies against each dither. They actually do win, no matter what.
    That formula they use to win is called “thesis and antithesis ”
    There really is no difference between the two parties. I tell REPUBS….if the Rebubs controlling the voting power meant so much, WHY HAVEN’T THEY ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING, SINCE THEY TOOK OVER THE MAJORITY? No legislation of any consequence has taken place, that a I am aware of. What do you all think?

    I hope the Donald will have SOME positive effect, on society. He already has, as I see it. He has said what many have not stood up to say.
    I pray the powers that be do not get rid of him first. They do that to their opponents…you know? They have killed off anyone in history who really has the clout to OUT WIN them. They kill anyone when has the power of the people.
    Et tu, Brute…..

    You know Scott Walker is both Press.. Bushes. Cousin? ( removed)
    It looks like the bad bear Bushes will get BACK into office no matter what! with either of the two, Jebbie, or Scottie…
    You never hear anything about them being cousins ? on ANY mainstream media….even thought the media is suppose to be FAR LEFT…well, that looks like another false accusation.
    I really do not hear much about any of that even on alternative net medias.

    Liked by 1 person

  107. Gato,
    BTW that term “ice picks ” was never used by me.. One of your replys to me from one of you, is where that came from. You all are the ones making ” stuff” up.
    I said the report said they were ” stabbing” ( probably with medical tools ) the full or near full term babies in the head. I NEVER USED the term ice pick.

    Like

  108. hey Whirled Peas …..
    I just want you (and any other liberal) to say on this site that you are completely fine with selling body parts from babies….live or dead…no problem…
    come on Helen…your next post should be on how your fine with harvesting fetuses for experimentation; just don’t use dogs or rabbits.
    Next time you want to call a conservative a Nazi look up Josef Mengele and human experimentation, and which party seems fine with this.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/planned-parenthood-whistleblower-heart-of-aborted-fetus-was-still-beating/article/2570461

    UAW Man……..

    UAW…..
    Thanks for linking the video. Thanks for caring for the Human Race.
    Thanks for Caring for Us All, and Sharing.
    You do Not Hear Positive Things Like This On The Porch….
    It is a shame only a Very Few View Life in the same way on this blog.
    The great leveler, death, will be coming soon, for us all.
    Folks want the best for themselves, why would they not want the same for any one or thing, other than themselves?
    It is wonderful to bring light to the world, but mostimes, the light ( truth is rejected ) is refused. It seems like this is happening more and more, today.
    This blog surely is representative of how the world is declining in its morals and belief on the basic sanctity for life.
    Last night, I read the Catholic news report on the Pope’s encyclical, ( May-June, 2015) He states man puts the well being of animals above the importance of protecting mankind. He restates in many sentences that same point over and over.
    Man has been beguiled over and over by satan, since the very beginning.
    The results of this beguiling and believing that man is his own god, has created this stinking thinking. It has manifested itself in the minds and souls of those who believe this lie, and thus, no longer protect the sanctity of life.
    Watch this video. Thanks, AGAIN! UAWMAN!

    The lab worker interviewed, in the movie, dealt ( probably many times ) with holding a tiny person, in her two hands, and was told to push an object through the chin and into the brain.
    She said she could no longer work for the company any longer.
    Abortions are all bad and very sad, but, after dealing with killing a live aborted fetus, for a long enough time, a desensitizing takes place, and the people involved see no harm in “helping the living fetus die “.

    You are correct, UAW, the original Nazi agenda IS what is being implemented here in America. The same backer companies are behind the current ongoing Holicost.
    Hitler said if you tell a BIG enough lie, for a long enough time, people WILL believe it. Abortion is THE current biggest lie, used to create another great Holicost over the last 50 years.
    Anither Great lie was Hoover’s “Chicken in Every Pot”, while we lost 7 million citizens from one census to another, to starvation and sickness, during the Great Depression, while living in tent cities, though out America…(1930-1940) Every city had huge piles of dead bodies, to be buried in Potters Fields, all over America. You bet you do not read much about that in the controlled educational system history books. The conquerors are always in control of writhing the history of man. The genicide minded folks are in control of everything….big and getting bolder.

    Like

  109. Yeah, Pi – I’m all for crazy, especially when “not crazy” is exemplified by Ranting Zealots, and their currenty most admired personage most resembles a stack of Dubble-Bubble topped with Angry Cat… And often sounds like Rush having a bad day.

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  110. Hi, Terri – I’m hanging in there; UNBELIEVABLY busy dealing with my brother’s and sis-in-law’s very complicated affairs…

    My better angels always tell me not to bother, too – reminding me (totally correctly) that nothing is going to “get through” or make the slightest mote of any difference. However, sometimes I just feel like doing it anyway; if so, I’m likely to go ahead and do it – and not beat myself up for doing so!

    BTW, I actually did google “half-born babies with icepicks in their heads,” and found NOT ONE reference… NOT ONE! I was actually kind of surprised. (I’m sure the “explanation” will be something about how the government fascist baby-killer-supporters have used their awesome powers, aided by Lucifer himself, to remove all the references to same…)

    And, now that I think of it, wasn’t Lucifer cast down from heaven by God himself for presuming to “be” God, or speaking for God…? Not sure about that, but it sounds kind of familiar. I’m pretty danged sure he wasn’t “cast down” for supporting Planned Parenthood!

    Have a nice day!

    Gato

    Liked by 1 person

  111. Terri- ya know the “girls” thingy is a PIA, ennit?
    I haven’t been a girl for over forty years, Helen and Margaret even longer…when will some folks accept”boys” and “girls” may not necessarily mature sensibly but they do grow out of childhood?
    And the ‘OUR women are pretty crazy today ” dealie? Pfft!
    We don’t belong to our society as property or other people or churches or whatever and if we are crazy- crazy is good , ennit? 😉

    Like

  112. Hi Gato,
    Oy, I keep telling myself not to bother, but when I read sentences like “our women are pretty crazy today” and references to “girls” It’s hard not to respond. Chris is obviously some kind of religious zealot who also subscribes to “new world order” politics. What a combination! The condescending remarks about those here being “worked up” and then pretending to be the calm rationale one is hilarious. I think the person who posts rambling, semi-coherent screeds seems to be the one who is “worked up.” He/she often contradicts his/her own beliefs in the same sentence.
    On a different note, please color me sick to death of “The Donald” and his supposed “authenticity.”
    Hope you are doing well.

    Liked by 3 people

  113. Oh, PI – I meant that with all snark! Just referring to him as an example of the MSM’s never-ending smorgasbord of loony antics that get far too much press as if they were “significant”…

    I can see how it might have been mis-read, though. My mistake!

    Gato

    Liked by 1 person

  114. gato- bite your tongue! Cliven Bundy is a thief , a nasty sicko thief, who deserves no more soapbox time. Cannot believe that asshat got away with what he did ..
    https://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/04/18/how-did-i-miss-militia-god-gave-land-settlers-not-shoshone-154472

    Like

  115. Chrispychris:
    “God IS the reason for the CONTROVERSY.
    Each person IS a SPIRIT from God, our Creator. He or She IS the ENERGY source of the Universe. When we are in line with God, our Spirit knows it.
    When we become ill at ease, it is because that small voice within us is telling us what is wrong….when we listen to it…”
    ____________________________________

    small voice might be gas just as easily as anything else, ennit?

    Liked by 1 person

  116. Hi, Terri – It’s hard to know what to do with someone who just won’t shut up and who will say the same things, over and over again, whether or not they have any basis in fact. Yes, defunding PP is “marching along,” in those same places where voter disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, cutting social services, refusing Obamacare $$, gutting education, government takeover theories, belief that the Confederacy will rise again, “Benghazi,” and thinking Odd Hair Boy would be a great President, are “marching along.”

    Gee… Whatever happened to good ol’ Cliven Bundy and the cowboy militia…?

    Think I’ll have a cup of tea and see if I can find some more pictures of half-born babies with icepicks in their heads – THAT should make god happy, don’t you think?

    Gato

    Liked by 3 people

  117. Hi, Jill – I don’t think it can be drinking – even the most overwhelmed drunk has at least a moment or two of coherence once in a while. Maybe something in the drinking water out there in “Armaghendon”…

    No; this is just someone who’s made it a personal mission to try to inundate a blog with his/her own voice, and has now found one – maybe two – “allies” with whom to express solidarity. Notice how “we” are now looked upon, apparently, by those allies with “compassion” and “kindness,” and certainly plenty of condescension – as poor, unhappy little creatures who have just about “given up” and have to get our rest…

    And, of course, it’s always satisfying to announce that the absence of a response indicates “defeat,” rather than someone’s saying, “Trying to have a dialogue with you is about as satisfying as trying to explain gravity to one of those wind-up tin circus monkeys with a pair of cymbals…”

    Gato

    Liked by 3 people

  118. Thanks, Whirled – That’s great! Makes you really look forward to the inevitable barrage of “campaign” ads, doesn’t it…?

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  119. .
    .
    What do we have here?

    Thru the magic of deceptive editing:
    .
    Ohio Republican Officials Support Planned Parenthood?

    “Planned Parenthood deserves our gratitude and respect.”

    I saw him say it…it must be true. 😉

    Peace ~ Δ

    Liked by 1 person

  120. Jill, it sounds like you may be the one drinking about now.
    You seem angry, and not very happy. I pray you will have a better day tomorrow.
    I mean no harm to anyone. The messenger is sometimes the target. I more than understand that. Messengers get a lot of angry response.
    It will even get worse, as mankind becomes even more barbaric with what is happening more and more in this world, everyday.

    UAW man, you are right on..The girls are all resting now, except Jill.
    Keep up the good work.
    Many here are all worked up. They do not realize how being worked up is a sign we are to look introspectively at ourselves.

    Jill, The choice of abortion is definately a ” sacred choice”. Not so much in the way you think.. You make it a natural…choice.. in like worshipping the feminine, which many pagans did thousands of years ago. Abortion is another sacred choice between good and evil.. That is the battle between good and evil that prevails within all of us, forever, on all levels of our lives until our last breath.
    We always have the choice to think and do differently, than we did yesterday.
    The battle of Armaghendan is fought between our ears….in our minds….and in our souls.
    What we choose to do, and who we choose to serve is always a “sacred choice.”
    I hope this will be a good day for all to begin anew. I hope those on this blog see the light of day again to be able to make even better choices than we all made yesterday.
    Keep the Faith…You are on target, UAW tradesman..
    I am only responding to your comments..I have no issue.with anyone.
    I am at peace. God Bless You, and Good Night. !

    Like

  121. UAW – republican politicians investigate PP all the time. This latest attack is nothing new. And guess what? They never find anything wrong. That would be why PP remains open for business despite ass wipes like you who believe everything they hear on Fox News.

    Liked by 2 people

  122. Chrispy – are you stupid or do you drink? Your facts are all wrong. Studies show that women who have had abortions don’t suffer from depression any more than women in general. Many religions believe abortion is a sacred choice. Many believe not bringing a life into the world if you are not ready is perfectly fine. You do not have a monopoly on God. And the arrogance you show is appalling for someone who claims to know God. Go get another congregation dear. This one is tired of your crazy.

    Liked by 2 people

  123. Oh, honestly… If you’re not sure what “god’s will” actually is on this stuff – like who “god” wants to live, and who “god” doesn’t – why don’t you stop trying to tell everybody that you do…?

    Liked by 2 people

  124. If there any chance of a discussion between the two sides god must be taken out of the discussion. No one can prove of disprove the existence of a “supreme being” who watches over the planet judging the inhabitants and deciding who it will allow to enter “heaven”. And the false facts that get brought into a discussion. CYNTHIA…

    Cynthia,
    The reason for the controversy IS GOD. You cannot take GOD out if the equation….or the discussion.
    That is why 51% of people pulled are for abortion under certain conditions when it is dangerous for the life do the mother.
    God IS the reason for the CONTROVERSY.
    Each person IS a SPIRIT from God, our Creator. He or She IS the ENERGY source of the Universe. When we are in line with God, our Spirit knows it.
    When we become ill at ease, it is because that small voice within us is telling us what is wrong….when we listen to it.
    The 51% knows ABORTION is wrong.
    I will listen to your side. All I hear is no one knows what these poor women go through. WELL, let’s work on fixing that problem to help our sisters in need. Helping them make the choice to abort is not necessarily the right choice to help them.
    Studies have been made as to the depression and psychological problems women experience even after many years after an abortion.
    The use of anti depressants have much increased since abortion have become legal, and the divorce rate has climbed to 50%.
    You think maybe there is a correlation between the two?
    Our women are pretty crazy today. At least that is the consensus.
    I bet NOT MANY studies have been made linking the several issues.
    Up to now, I read somewhere within these comments…we have had like 3 million legal abortions to date? That would be like, correct me if I am wrong, nearly 1% of our population murdered? WOW!
    No wonder our society is beginning to crumble. That is what happened to the Roman Empire. One of the reasons for the falling of Rome was, they did not HONOR their women. That was the beginning of the end.
    I pray we are not on that same path to destruction, but, looking all around, at the many related and not clearly attributed issues this country has, I would say we are going down that slippery road.

    Like

  125. Terri, also Mother Theresa was named a snit by the same church who gave her NO FINANCIAL HELP with her hospital. She received help from a private benefactor. She definitely has a place in Heaven, if our perception of her is correct. God does take care of HIs own,

    Like

  126. There are many Christians within the Catholic faith, just as there are many true Christians following the Christ in other protesting based Christian denominations.
    The ROMAN SYSTEM is what is evil and NOT true, not ANY of those who have accepted Christ and are true believers in all of the Word of God..
    These are the Children of God. They are excluded from the evils and the judgements to come against mankind. This is one of the promises of God, the Father.
    All the different demonizations does not matter, but that we believe that the Christ is the Messiah, and Son of the Father, sent by God as the one sacrifice for our sins. We must just NOT believe in things that God has not ordained in His Word.
    This pope may be FOR God, but many before him only believed in the church system, and were not for God, but other gods. They were merely rulers of men. Some of what the pope says does not line up with the Word of God. Some of his words line up with the incorrect church ancient man made teachings of the governing SYSTEM he is a part of.
    All the churches, including the buildings including any ungodly inhabitants, will be destroyed in the end. Only God’s people will be saved for eternity.
    That is what true Christians, who follow the Christ believe.
    Much is misunderstood by even Christians, from the centuries of lies the Christ Followers were fed, while they were not allowed to read the Bible.
    In like 1500, the Roman church told its parishioners the priests could only interpret God’s Word, from the Latin….and since the dark ages had so many of the masses uneducated, many could not read.
    That was a control the church had on keeping the masses down, and subservient to the elitists who ran the church behind the scenes. The Kings of Europe heavily influenced and controlled the church.
    Same things go on today, just a different day!
    The U.N. ( the one world government ) is dictating what we do here in America and who will live and from what disease or poison they will contribute to our deaths, and eventually how we will die. They control,food, banking, investing, legal system, manufacturing, laws for every corporation, every world wide governmental system, every educational systems, even our water quality. Everything is a part of the systems in place right now and in their control. Look into the Bilderbergs …secret society….
    See who the invitees are for each year to this seminar held in secret places with NO TV or Media coverage, even though the media are invitees ….you will see who really controls the world…and follow the money. The straw parties will lead you the real world domination masters are.
    All this, I mention is a part of the agenda of control and obliteration of 90% of the worlds population. ( even the pope came out in an encyclical just a few weeks ago, and said we need to control the population……what does he mean? Planned Parenthood….and yes, it will eventually include ABORTION.
    That IS what planned parenting IS, not only birth control.)

    Liked by 1 person

  127. Oh come on UAW, we all know you are the biggest dick here.

    Peace.

    Like

  128. guess i got to gatodicima because she wouldn’t answer my question. She came along with some righteous bullshit instead. And NO not all mothers knew that the parts were being sold. How about fetuses that still had the heart beating.
    Guess maybe I hit a nerve.

    come on…..answer the question….you personally would rather have a viable(heart still beating)human fetus used for experimentation than a dog,cat, or rabbit. and google zygote we’re talking 25-30 week fetuses…..2-5 lbs
    so I guess the next thing your going to bring up is my dick length? It’s happened before.

    Liked by 1 person

  129. OMG! I’m sure the Pope will be upset to hear you don’t think he is really Christian. And what do you think Mother Teresa was doing all those years in India? According to you she wasn’t being Christian? Give me a break!
    Chris, please, the more you write, the less credibility you have. No one wants to listen to a religious zealot passing judgment on their morals, views, and faith. And finally, no one is ” pro-abortion”, they are pro-choice, and there’s a huge difference.

    Liked by 2 people

  130. Terri and Cynthia,
    Terri, I am not the 19%….I am for abortion, when pregnancy and birth is dangerous to the mother. ( I may actually be wrong on this account, as It may or may not be God’s will to save the mother, only.) only God knows, there!
    His word must be studied more on that account.

    I am in the 51% that I have been mentioning here as those in an uproar of the populous against PP for their horrific deeds.

    Cynthia,
    I went to the internet to study the numbers of folks against Planned Parenthood , and came upon a site called Patheos, I noticed it was a blog for Atheists. I was ALSO super surprised, that MOST of the comments paralleled those on this, Margaret and Helens Blog site.
    Cynthia, I understand the Roman sect of the Christ following church throughout the ages, promoted the population growth to insure MORE land acquisition for its churches and thus, the coffers of the elitists who controlled the church over the ages. The parishioners borrow money, to build a church and the Archdiocese owns it after the loan is paid off. Great deal, hey?
    The roman church IS the largest single land owner in the world, today, and still is a proponent of pro life. It would be a dead church, if the numbers of its parishioners would diminish.
    One of many of its problems is, they DO NOTHING to financially help the women finding themselves in trouble, pregnant. I ran into that seeking help for an unwed mother some 15 yews ago.
    The 19 year old girl needed a car payment during her last month of pregnancy, before her girl was born, and could not work.
    I called Catholic Charities, and told the nun about the situation and was told, they were not set up to help anyone, in that situation.
    I told her IF the Catholic Church IS pro-life, why would they not help the girls in Need? She was emphatic in saying they could NOT provide any help in this or any of these types of situations. I told her, the lack of such help, just did not sound very Christ-Like.
    She agreed, but could NOT refer or provide guidance to any other group, or church to help.
    The Catholic Church SYSTEM is NOT Christian in its actions.
    When you pro abortionists say bad things about Christ Followers….
    Do not lump Christians into that church system group, and refer to that particular church’s actions or dogmas, or make judgements in respect to Christians, when it comes to any Christians beliefs and deeds. THAT church hierarchy system was commingled since the third century, with paganism, and is NOT really, truly Christian. It does not really preach the Kingdom of God, as Jesus once did. Jesus did not stand for the precepts of that church. ( thus, also those protestors since 1500 do not have it totally right, either)
    Peace to You, All…
    God Blesses Us and gives US Grace ..each and every day.
    Give Thanks to God for this Day!

    Like

  131. Jeez… It just doesn’t matter how often you say “the public” opposes something or other. THEY DON’T!

    You can just keep hollering around here, understanding that no one gives a whatever, OR you could just go somewhere else and try to be actually useful. Your choice.

    Liked by 1 person

  132. Chris,
    Your facts are wrong (no surprise). According to the Gallup website, here are the facts: 29% of Americans feel abortion should be legal under any circumstances, 51% believe it should be legal under certain circumstances, and 19% believe it should be never be legal. 19% an hardly be called “the public.” Facts are stubborn things.

    Liked by 1 person

  133. “i do not understand why any human would not see the horror of such acts.” cc

    I think we do. However it not as simple as you seem to want to make it.

    If there any chance of a discussion between the two sides god must be taken out of the discussion. No one can prove of disprove the existence of a “supreme being” who watches over the planet judging the inhabitants and deciding who it will allow to enter “heaven”. And the false facts that get brought into a discussion.

    An unplanned pregnancy has its problems since the beginning of time IMO. And abortion is nothing new. An abortion has the same result whether it is legal or illegal. Only legal is better than the illegal back alley quacks or the DIY methods.

    At this time no one is forcing a pro-lifer to have an abortion. If you believe it is wrong then don’t have one. That is what having a choice is about. If you take away choice then it can easily change from no abortions or to allowing just one child or gender selection.

    Contrary to your belief, most pro-choice people I know want to see fewer abortions for birth control reasons. Many of us here remember the time before Roe vs Wade. Yet in a number of red states they want “abstinent only” taught only. One state states the information given in sex ed class does not have to be medically accurate! Some want to make the pill and IUD and other reliable bc methods illegal. Now it doesn’t take a huge IQ to realize this will not reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.

    Please don’t bother telling me pro-life care about the lives of these children if they were born. Their concern is only pro-birth, IMO

    So what is pro-life’s real agenda????????????

    Peace.

    Liked by 1 person

  134. Terri,
    Evidently, the public has a different opinion than yours on this blog.
    The actions of defunding is marching on!
    Thank God!

    Like

  135. Chris,
    Face it, you are never going to change the minds of any one here with your uninformed, long-winded, tedious, self-righteous posts. And insulting people you disagree with and impugning their motives and beliefs is just plain wrong. Abortion is a very serious issue, and it is an issue most of us have given a lot of thought to, and come to very different conclusions from you. That’s how America works. Just leave it at that.

    Liked by 1 person

  136. Suskaw
    Yeah! Researchers ( one subject to discuss. another time ) MAY BE saving other children, BUT, the organs GO STILL go to the HIGHEST BIDDER!
    Such ALTRUISM on the part of Planned Parenhood! They are in,y in it to help poor women get rid of their problems, and once again, help research….but, DONATING to SCIENCE IS NOT THE SAME AS PP NEGOTIATING PRICES OF ORGANS TO BUY A LAMBORGHINI !

    Like

  137. Hi Congenial Gang,

    I did a “Kitchen Crew Oops!” last time. Sorry about that. I’ll try to get it right next time if my fumble fingers will co-operate. Gato, it may be necessary for me to get you to translate for me from, time to time. J’suis une artiste. Pls draw a large circle on a piece of paper. We will call it a “Round toit.” Next, print these two words in the middle of the “Round toit.” “to” – “it”. Next – – – – read aloud, starting with “A round- – – – -.

    I have a fascinating narrative to put up for all of you when I getaroundtoit (Starting with when hubby and I committed matrimony 62 (that’s sixty-two years) ago. We have been living happily ever after in marital blitz, ever since. Any questions?

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Liked by 2 people

  138. Chrispy: Okay, I surrender…..I feel like I’ve hit a brick wall. I end my posts on this subject by saying once again that although I would have never considered aborting any of my own children that has no bearing on what another woman decides is best for her. PP is not forcing anyone to abort their child so they can reap the benefits, they are, in fact, likely saving the lives of other children through using aborted organs and tissues.

    Liked by 1 person

  139. Gato,
    I have been the abused, and have aided many in the same instances you named.
    Currently, I work with a woman’s shelter, and see abused women….30 new ones every month, with their children.
    With taht in mind, it does not make we NOT have feelings for the aborted and half born, killed babies coming out of the womb.
    You still must not be grasping the concept of what is really taking place.
    i do not understand why any human would not see the horror of such acts.
    Has the medias and laws made us inhumane ?
    I do not truly understand you.
    I see the all the bad things that take place against women, but, killing their children is not the answer to the problems.
    How can one equate onewron doing with another ?
    Two wrongs do not add up to right.

    Like

  140. I’m breaking my own “rule” here, replying directly to you, just because I feel like it.

    You know NOTHING about me, or about anyone else who posts here, other than what we choose to tell you. And that’s what we “know” about you.

    So, I have a couple of simple questions for you. I’m sure your answers will provide dramatic evidence of how your fervently-held beliefs have informed your personal choices in life. I look forward to hearing them. (Of course, you’re free to make up anything you want, because that’s one of the great things about anonymous blog posting, isn’t it? SO much less demanding than “real life”…!)

    How many children do you have, and/or have you raised? (I pray for them…) Have you ever volunteered to shelter and/or support an abandoned child? Have you ever supported, or worked in, a day care center, a shelter for abused women and children, or a soup kitchen? Would you offer your home, and/or your support, to a fourteen-year-old girl who is pregnant as a result of her being raped by her stepfather, and who wants to keep her child? Let’s start with those, shall we…?

    I’m sure you’ll have fun with this. (You don’t have to thank me.) And please try to leave out yet another reference, in capital letters, about “stabbing ALMOST BORN BABIES in the HEAD with ICEPICKS…”

    Or, alternately, you could forget entirely about trying to dredge up/invent/create new and exciting “arguments” and inaccurate “facts,” and just write…

    STABBING ALMOST BORN BABIES IN THE HEAD WITH ICEPICKS!!!
    DOING IT FOR MONEY!!!
    STABBING ALMOST BORN BABIES IN THE HEAD WITH ICEPICKS!!!
    DOING IT FOR MONEY!!!
    STABBING ALMOST BORN BABIES IN THE HEAD WITH ICEPICKS!!!
    DOING IT FOR MONEY!!!

    Gato (…or, maybe not…)

    Liked by 2 people

  141. Suskaw,
    I do NOT see comments on this blog saying they agree with anything against what PP is doing.
    Anyone coming to this site can see in an overview what you all stand for.
    Your comments do not reflect and represent the majority’s thinking, on the subject, in relationship to the opinions of our 330 million American people.

    I only see three of us here who ever mentioned being against what PP is doing,

    I see why Helen’s slanted opinion is so beguiling to you. You suck it up, and have no objections, or other thoughts on the subject.

    Like

  142. Gato,
    How can any of you possibly be WOMEN, and not feel for those babies killed on tables, after being aborted ALIVE!
    I just do not see you especially Gato, being ole porch grannies and not being up in arms about this subject. That response is so unlike that coming from older females.
    Your reaction to abortion is likened to a guy who tells his girlfriend to GET an abortion. Even MEN are appalled at what PP is doing.
    You do NOT appear to be women who have lived long learning experiences and been softened with the maturity it creates in us. How can your remarks be so cold against the helpless unborn child, especially with the new information being made available?
    Women’s nature is protect their children at all costs. Why are your responses coming across as being so unnatural for old women?
    You are still solid on the killing of the unborn, even those ready to come out of the womb. WOW!
    You sound more like judges stating the man made law, even when the law passed was WRONG. Each comment made here reflects that. ???

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  143. It does appear that most folks on this site are backslapping and agreeing with Helen’s slanted article on the newest PP abortion videos. From your comments, it appears that either a consensus has been reached, or that you all are so uninformed or misinformed that Your comments do reflect a lack of compassion towards the babies involved and are opposite of the general attitudes of the majority of Americans screaming out in disgust on this matter.
    Go to the Webster Dictionary and other dictionary sites and see how the remarks are being Meade for the word “fetus”.
    The comment atmosphere on these websites for partial birth….”death” abortion is sooo much different than anything seen on this Margaret and Helen blog site. .
    Negative comments throughout the internet is truly how the American Public is reacting to this issue.
    That is why finding is being dropped by many states, and corporations.
    The United States needs to also defund this organization.
    I will have to check into how that issue is going.
    Thank God, Your opinions are not those of the majority. They silent majority is waking up, and screaming for change.
    Revolutions of all types are happening through social media, and the internet. Just not happening in your little corner of the world, it seems.

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  144. Hi, Cynthia – Yes, there’s a conflict here, for sure: As I see it, on the one hand, our own good sense tells us correctly that the only thing that will eventually discourage a Rampant, Obsessive, Blatherer is a total lack of response from anyone. (And “eventually” can be an excruciatingly long period of time…)

    On the other hand, we don’t want the “ROB” to think that he/she has “won” the argument because we’ve given up, defeated by the brilliance of the ROB’s “logic” and POV. We forget that the ROB hears nothing said by anyone else – ever. All responses mean only one thing: An invitation to the ROB to go at it again. However, the creativity involved in the ever more convoluted “reasoning” required to keep restating the same bulldoody in ever grander formats (conspiracy theories, “agendas,” possession by the Ghastly Incubus, whatever) DOES become more and more amusing, that’s for sure.

    Suskaw: I think we can probably anticipate a whole lot of stuff, next, about how the rest of us “think” we think for ourselves, but are really all foully influenced by the forces of Evil and Death – and, of course, at least one or more references to the stabbing of BABIES, in their SKULLS, with ICEPICKS… (I wonder how often our ROB looks at those videos… Certainly more often than you or I do, most likely. Might even be used as a screensaver; wouldn’t surprise me one bit. And each viewing probably brings our ROB a little tremor of moral outrage and thrilling “horror”…)

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  145. Jean, of course you are right…..but it is not a lot of fun to scroll by. Some of us are just bored and need a bit of excitement in our lives at times. (and it keeps some activity on the blog as well.)

    Peace.

    Like

  146. Chrispy: I’m curious – in most of your posts you indicate that EVERYONE BESIDES YOU is “unlearned”, insensitive, etc. While many of us agree on certain points regarding PP and abortion, it doesn’t indicate that YOU are the only one getting this correct. The rest of us are all individuals who “think for ourselves” – that doesn’t mean we agree on every aspect of the subject. Please quit referring to us as being of one mind, give us some credit of having our own thoughts.

    Like

  147. UAW..
    The majority of these folks on this blog are not representative of most Americans, who ARE appalled at the revelation of what is and has been going on within PP operation.
    Most Americans are infuriated at viewing the negotiation of the SALE of late term aborted babies which are being STABBED in the head to get late term ACTUAL ORGANS, ( named like livers, hearts, etc. in the video ) not early trimester blobs of tissue, as we all along have been told which they deal with.

    This information has been brought to the forefront in the minds of Americans, who have up til now have been for the right of women to abort, is NOW disgusting the masses.
    In retaliation, PP has actually stopped by court order, the viewing of these videos in Oklahoma, I believe (?)
    That is exactly what you would expect a corporation to legally do to stop the bleeding from such bad press.
    Remember, the government grants equal like 500 MILLION or, 700 MILLION dollars EACH YEAR to PP. This is a really, really BIG BUSINESS !
    No one in this organization, evidently, wants to give up any of their hard earned money.
    From the videos, ther must be so much greed in the organization; they are squeezing the last dollar out of the researchers, the fetal victims, and their moms, too.
    PP makes money from performing the abortions, and still want to make MORE money on the tissue, or as the video exposes, and thus refers to
    ” everybody wants livers, and hearts”.
    What the HEY is all this criminal sounding talk. I guess you all never watched it. It is really discusting!
    I guess you can justify it, and discount the acts, by never watching it.
    It is like it never happened in your estimation.
    But, in turn you all can make mountains out of mole hills, whenever you choose, over ANY OTHER nonsense agenda or news bit that you choose to put your minds on.
    You all seem to pick and choose your agendas, much of which does not seem relative to real life.
    Choosing to DONATE YOUR organs is much different from being told you QUALIFY for an abortion, while being lied to, as to the number of weeks you are pregnant, only to have your baby stabbed in the head on its way out of the birth canal…so as to NOT be called A MURDER, in the eyes of the Law.
    As adament as your remarks have been, for the selling of not only aborted fetuses, but the KILLING of late term BABIES, ready for normal birthing, for the harvesting of pre-ordered baby body parts, it appears your opinion has an agenda, as well.
    With all the positive consensus between you all, while the rest of America is up in arms over these videos, it appears possibly some of you making such inhumane comments towards the aborted, may be on the money making end of the PP corporate operation.

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  148. Thanks, Terri, on all fronts…

    AND, of course, Auntie Jean is ever-wise. I just can’t always resist as often as I know I should!

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  149. Hi Kitchen Crew,

    Those of us who have been around the blog block a few times before, know when it’s time to skip on by a name or comment.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Liked by 2 people

  150. Hi Kitchen Crew,

    For any of you who have been around the blog block for as long as some of us have, it is easy to know when to just skip on by.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    Liked by 1 person

  151. Well said, Gato, well said.
    And so sorry for your loss.

    Liked by 1 person

  152. Well, howdy, UAW! No one who isn’t a psychopath (and there are probably a few psychopaths on both sides of the political “aisle”) is likely to say he/she is “fine” with selling “baby parts” from LIVING babies, so come on… Your “challenge” is ridiculous.

    Besides, “PARTS” WERE NEVER, AND ARE NOT NOW, BEING “SOLD.” THEY WERE BEING DONATED – WITH THE PERMISSION OF THE WOMAN INVOLVED – TO INSTITUTIONS DEDICATED TO MEDICAL RESEARCH, WHICH IS, AND LONG HAS BEEN, PERFECTLY LEGAL.

    And don’t give me any crap about the poor little “pre-born” zygote not having a “chance” to express its “wishes.” In the first place, it does not have the capacity to construct any “wishes,” period, let alone “express” them.

    Secondly, many “post-born” humans choose to donate their organs and/or their bodies, for transplantation or medical research, upon their death. And, in cases where they are not able to express this (or any) wish, due to traumatic injury or brain death, this decision often falls to their next of kin or legal representative. Have you got a problem with the whole “organ donor” thing, too, or would you prefer to see perfectly good kidneys, eyes, livers, spleens, hearts, et cetera, just get stuck into the ground, or go up in smoke…? And then feel “moral” as you watch some other “post-born” human die because no kidney was available?

    This subject is close to me these days, because both my beloved younger brother and his wife died earlier this year, within five weeks of each other. They both donated not only any usable organs, but their entire bodies, to a very fine teaching hospital in Charleston, SC, where they lived. So, since March of this year, their bodies have been poked, sliced, dissected, studied, “examined” in every possible way, and rolled in and out of coolers at the hospital. Has all this been “pleasant” for me to contemplate? Of course not. But they would be just as gone had they not made that decision, and I respect and admire their having done so.

    When the hospital is finished, they will cremate the remains of their “remains” and make them available for burial, which I can assure we will do with all due ceremony, reverence, and love. My sister-in-law was a devout Catholic; her church had no objection whatsoever to her choice. (She checked with her priest.) Do you think the Catholic Church is lackadaisical in its “reverence for life”…? If they’re okay with this, what the hell is YOUR problem…? Just leave it alone; it’s none of your damned business, frankly.

    Those of us who do not have a lot of cash with which to endow some great research project can at least do this… They did not want anything they could offer to go to waste. That’s how they lived their lives, and what they wanted to do in death. My husband and I decided years ago to do the same.

    So just get over yourself, and off your really offensive moral high horse. Go out there and feed some “post-born” children, volunteer in a day-care center, or give blood, or support groups who work ceaselessly to help people avoid the trauma of abortion, in the first place – like, dammit, PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  153. UAW…
    I agree with you whole heartedly.
    This article is too.. much for the continuation of the barbaric harvesting of babies organs under a euphamistic calling it something else.
    There has to be another way to help these poor women.
    I know, I, too, am a woman.
    The article says its all ok. IT IS NOT OK, what they are doing to the women under the guise of helping them, while killing their babies to make money from the sales of what they name as LIVERS,, and other ORGANS…

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  154. Whirled Peas…
    I am neither right or left, but there is a line as to taking one’s ( or a corporation’s ) rights away. A company should be able to choose who they hire..or what benifits they will give an employee. Under the table, those issues have always been dealt with whichever way the company wished.
    Corporations get away with literal murder…Two Hundred Top CEO’s have had mysterious deaths, all in one year…
    Because Hobby Lobby it is a Christian Corporation…the attack wasmade on them.
    Christians from the time of Christ have been killed off. Christ and ALL The Deciples were KILLED by the Romans. The Romans killed Christians for over 300 years, before they decided to politically embrace Christianity, and allow for religious freedom in order for them to practice its religion….
    Then , the Romans pursecuted and killed off any small group of believers that did not adhere to the adapted beliefs the Romans, after making Chritianiity the official religion of the empire…Roman beliefs took in PAGAN Gods, and customs and incorporated all the paganism into the religion. Those who went by the Bible…were mostly killed off.
    True Christianity….Not the Christian Right…or LEFT. is an enemy of the One World Government that is about ( actually with the current U.N., we already have ithe one world govt. ) to be brought in. That is why America has NO RULE OF LAW, and has no control of its Congress, or of any of its Presidents. The system will and does run by itself. We have NO power, really, girls.
    Good Day, All

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  155. hey Whirled Peas …..
    I just want you (and any other liberal) to say on this site that you are completely fine with selling body parts from babies….live or dead…no problem…
    come on Helen…your next post should be on how your fine with harvesting fetuses for experimentation; just don’t use dogs or rabbits.
    Next time you want to call a conservative a Nazi look up Josef Mengele and human experimentation, and which party seems fine with this.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/planned-parenthood-whistleblower-heart-of-aborted-fetus-was-still-beating/article/2570461

    Liked by 1 person

  156. .
    The New Dark Ages:

    Witch Hunt: The Right’s Deranged War On Planned Parenthood

    For months now, Republicans in Washington, DC have been trying to defund the Title X program which keeps organizations like Planned Parenthood operating; the very idea of planning parenthood is under deliberate and sustained attack. As exemplified in the Supreme Court’s Hobby Lobby decision, social conservatives and big right wing donors increasingly hold a medieval view of contraception as a source of sexual immorality rather than a proven means of preventing abortions and unwed births. Better, they say, to pass legislation allowing them to fire single moms and prohibit employees from using birth control, returning America to the pre-Murphy Brown days of shunning and social ostracism with an extra helping of pure meanness.

    Peace ~ Δ

    Liked by 1 person

  157. Hi, Norm – That’s about the simplest, most eloquent, compassionate, and sensible summary of PP’s work, and why they should be supported, as I’ve ever read, anywhere. Well done!

    Gato

    Liked by 1 person

  158. I to remember the coat hanger days and am glad they are over and will fight to keep them over. I agree that the GOP’s platform on Planned Parenthood is misguided and will hurt the party at the polls. I think we all hate the idea of abortion being the method of choice for not having babies, all the more reason to have an organization like Planned Parenthood that does its best to avoid conception of unwanted humans.

    Liked by 3 people

  159. Hope you all are down at Fargo’s . Having fun!
    I am doing laundry…and thought what is the worst subjects of conversations folks can have? This post has been a not so good subject.
    The AB subject is really a downer to start with.
    I chuckled reading the list of worst subjects, I found online. I am pasting it below…
    Subjects that suck the fun and positive energy out of conversations, and are not so good..

    Illness. No-one wants to hear too much about illness and bad health. It’s a downer. And people in general don’t want to reflect too much on such things. It can put anyone in a sad and negative emotional state.

    Your crappy boss, job etc. It’s no fun hearing about this either.

    Your boring job. If it’s a fascinating job then it might be interesting to talk about. If you’re enthusiastic about your job and really love then it can be fascinating, otherwise, no.

    Hard to relate to hobbies and similar subjects. Well, actually getting technical and talking too much about the content of the hobby rather than what excites you about it. It says to try to avoid technical jargon.

    Relatable emotions and experiences. Try to relate what excites you about your bicycling or recycling instead of getting lost in facts and details. ( Ha! )

    Serial killers and other creepy subjects. An obvious one. Just like talking about illness, talking about Jeffrey Dahmer, stalkers and similar subjects can make people really uncomfortable.
    AB can definitely be put in this category. There is No Fun in discussing this subject, at all.

    I Send Good Vibes and Energy to You, All!
    Have a Good Night…..

    Liked by 1 person

  160. I want you all to know I do chuckle and sometimes laugh out loud at your goings on, around here.
    This current subject is a fiery one for sure,
    AB is one of two of THE most controversial subjects ever to discuss..
    Not sure what the other one is….I’ll check. ( religion? Politics? ).
    There you go……if any of those are number two, that’s why such fire comes out of the belly. AB incorporates both of the other fiery subjects….too.
    Holy Hell, afire !
    I am truly sorry, I come across so strongly. I do not mean to be so out there.
    I am just really adamant on the subject.
    Porch Ladies, I really do enjoy your humor…most times.
    Have Fun,….Fun !
    You all ARE the center core of this group……besides, of course, .the originators.
    I truly enjoy both Helen and Margaret. They are so funny! This ( I believe ) IS or was at one time, maybe 4 years or so ago, THE most popular blog, online!
    I am thinking to call you gals the MargareteandHelen’s Porchettes, like the Ronnetes, the Rayettes, and the Marvelettes. Ha!
    Enjoy Your Evening, Chris

    Liked by 1 person

  161. Hot damn ! and hallelujah !
    I’m kinda a 2-pints-a beer-a-year whether-I-need-it-or-not kinda gal and I’m joining you Cynthia and Gato for the first one of 2015!
    We get too silly we can call a cab ,
    I’ve had all the fun I can stand here today 🙂

    Helen- thank you for having all of us in. Even Chrispychris…

    Liked by 2 people

  162. gato The Fargo is the local watering hole. delukergurl you are invited as well. She knows where it is. My generation calls the bar Maassens (after the owner) however; most of us quit drinking. Alcohol doesn’t mix well with our scrips!

    One Sunday the bar closed early…years ago. Some desperate beer drinkers found the door unlocked. Let themselves in. Got a case of beer and left $20 on the counter. Left a note that they would return another day for the change and that they locked the door when they left!

    Only in a small town!

    Liked by 2 people

  163. WOO HOO!! PARTAY AT THE FARGO! Wherever that is, I’m there with y’all, sistahs. (Been spending a lot of time in SC recently…)

    Be nice to get away from all the ice-pick-skull-stabbing, links-to-the- etymology-of-“fetus,” roman-god-vs-real-god, Steve-Jobs-was-a-mortal (no s**t, Sherlock), god’s-gonna-hate-us, stuff…

    Got a hearty chuckle out of “the bartender will know what to do”…

    Bottoms up, Porch Sitters!

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  164. “God was a very angry God. He still is when we do not honor Him and Adore Him, Alone! We are to apply the 10 Commandments and place him and THEN our fellow man, next in importance of whom we are to serve.” – cc

    IMO this god of you speak of is either a psychopath, a sociopath or bi-polar; but definitely egotistical. (Very much like my ex-husband.)

    You may worship your god as you believe. We do not share the same god or beliefs. There is no reason to continue.

    Alaskapi and Gato I will be down at the Fargo if you wish to join me, my treat, in a refreshing beverage of your choice. I f take too long you may find me under the table but the barkeep will know what to do.

    Peace.

    Liked by 2 people

  165. My replies are “rebuttals” to Helen’s article and all your subsequent comments. I know the points I make are not being accepted by some, but, they are opinions of many. I really do not believe in any religious denomination, nor do ai belong to a political party.
    Neither, address, nor reflect anything but the ideas of those large and in charge for the moment.
    Steve Jobs evidently, as wonderful as he was, IS NOT GOD.
    Steve was a mortal, like us. He had NO extra abilities. He was human like you and I. We have freedome of choice to choose whom we will believe and follow.
    This link is pretty interesting. It is a history of fetus.
    There was a point in about 1940. …..not the medical definition….
    JUST the definition….where Fetus…..was considered a child…
    Later… It was considered a product of an animal…after gestation, after either the second…and some dictionaries stated after the third month.
    There are legal I politics and calling it infanticide, when the child could live outside the womb. Another definition I read said any abortion was legal inside the womb.
    It is apparently NOT legal, today to KILL ( with a stabbing to head) of a near full term baby on its way out of the birth canal.
    That is what Planned Parenthood is doing in the partial birth abortions it is doing. They do not call the organs blobs or tissue, because the organs are perfectly formed HUMAN ORGANS.
    They are ILLEGALY taking orders for what ever purpose, and FILLING the orders! BY ILLEGALLY KILLING HUMANS.
    The LEGAL determination is made whether it is in or out of the womb, but clearly, early birthed children make it outside the womb…..ARE BABIES!
    This link is pretty interesting. It is a history of themdefinition of the word fetus.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=pnJzmzlOF24C&pg=PA31&dq=1900+dictionary+definition+of+fetus&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDcQ6wEwA2oVChMIoL3f3eurxwIVxI8NCh2qpgPf#v=onepage&q=1900%20dictionary%20definition%20of%20fetus&f=false, other than his sou/ mind.

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  166. Hi, Pi – Yes, there is something unfortunately compelling about wanting to somehow “make a dent,” isn’t there…? I go there myself more times than I’m proud to admit!

    Maybe you’ve seen a little two-panel cartoon entitled “What Dogs Hear,” or something like that. In the left panel, a man is leaning over his dog, scolding. The dog is looking at him attentively. The man is saying: “Now, Buffy, you know you’re not supposed to chew the slippers like that. Bad dog, Buffy, bad dog! If you do that again, Buffy, I’m going to have to put you out in the doghouse for the night!”

    The panel on the right shows the same scene, and indicates what “Buffy” is actually hearing: “Blah, BUFFY, blahblahblahblashblahblahblahblah. Blahblah, BUFFY, blahblah! Blahblahblahblahblah, BUFFY, blahblahblahblahblahblah!”

    I think that’s the situation we have here… At first glance, there sometimes SEEMS to be some earnest and heartfelt content there, and the posts SEEM to be “replies” to someone else’s but… They’re really not. All the zealot can “hear” is a summons to hit the ol’ keyboard and go at the same old, same old, yet again. You will hear nothing like a “reply,” a “rebuttal,” the acknowledgement of another point of view, or anything remotely similar. There’s only “THE WORD” and THE MEGAPHONE through which the zealot shouts it, again and again, and again…

    I was surprised to learn, though, that “God” cannot apparently override an iPad’s auto-correct function… Boy, that Steve Jobs really was something, wasn’t he…?

    Gato

    Liked by 3 people

  167. No, Chrispychris. You do not agree with me at all. You do not even know what I think.
    You do not ask questions of or listen to others. You simply go on and on and on and on with what you think is immutable truth.
    And wrap it up in circular arguments which provide no facts of relevancy to the questions at issue here.
    It is inordinately foolish to assume that others will agree with you if they simply look at your argument and “facts” .At the least the argument must have sensible relation to real facts, tie up and explain satisfactorily various things, etc. One may not simply wave one’s lil hands and mouth around and assume it is a sound argument.
    Doing that is your right, however, you must take care not to confuse what you are doing with “conversation” because it is not.
    You are lecturing, hectoring and nagging at everyone here- none of which are strategies for convincing folks of your POV.
    Wearing us down like water torture? Maybe. But not in agreement. Creating irritation ? Yes. A lot.
    Convincing anyone, ? Not even a lil teeny bit.
    But you don’t get it cuz you are doing the sharing the word routine , eh?

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  168. I agree, ALASKAPI,
    THE WORD OF GOD is pretty self condemning.
    I am not condemning you. I share His Word. We are to come to his defense.
    That is why most followers are ridiculed.
    I am made anew in Christ, but, definitely not perfect.
    I still make mistakes, as I am only human.
    His word tell us of God’s expectations of us. We must check it out.
    We are held responsible, for our choices, after the age of reasoning.
    We cannot serve two Gods at the same time.
    We are called out to serve The One True God!
    His Spirit is born Within All of Us.
    That heat welling up within us, when we are confronted against our own sinful thinking, choices or situations, is His Spirit telling us to make choices which will edify Him. When we REFUSE to go God’s Way, this upheaval within us, acts as a warning. That’s is a GOOD thing.
    Satan wanted to and still wants to be worshiped as God.
    Satan comes to steal, kill and destroy God’s Creation.
    He comes to destroy our relationship with God. He want us to KILL one another, as well, which would keep us from the life ever after. That is the issue of abortion. We ARE destroying God’s Creation.
    Thus, Satan ultimately, also destroys HIS other Creation, Us.
    You all really know a Fetus, it is a BABY…no matter what man’s law claims it to be. Just because a law is made by man, IT DOES NOT LAST FOREVER.
    Man Made Laws change until the cows come in. Forevermore.
    I have not checked it yet, but, as I understand, the word FETUS in LATIN means BABY. ! So there, even the Romans called it what it was.

    Liked by 1 person

  169. Sorry for so many typos….my IPad has auto correct, and changes words at its own will.

    Like

  170. Cynthia, Thank You for Your comment.
    The point of your Bible study on the subject….
    IS that IT WAS GOD who did the killing.
    Let me say this comment applies to Bible Believers…..or those who wish to be.
    WE DO NOT have the right to be GOD…and take ANY life,
    On our own, except in case our life is eminently in danger.
    God was a very angry God. He still is when we do not honor Him and Adore Him, Alone! We are to apply the 10 Commandments and place him and THEN our fellow man, next in importance of whom we are to serve.
    We should want ALL of the Goodness of God for our Neighbirs ( every person)
    If we put graven images ….which also means putting anything above Him, it WILL eventually mean death to us in the life everlasting, (if we can manage to make it through this one, after doing so; for the payment from God for our SIN IS DEATH. It is promised in the Bible.)
    I agree, the roman church, within the history of Christ’s Church. ( the Messianic Jewish Church ) CHANGED the persona of the Christ, after they killed, not only Jesus, but ALL of HIS Deciples, and MOST of the early followers.
    The Roman did an about turn, and ONLY used Christianity as a political ploy to unit the Emoire and solidify unity between the majority of believers which were the pagans, throughout the vast empire and make the empire strong, as it had many thoughts, peoples, customs and pagan gods.
    The empire had signs of crumbling because in conquering of the world, it took on much many problems of taking in too many past enemies which created dangers of destruction from within. ( we are also seeing this in America, today, taking in too many immigrants without assimilating them into the society legally and mostly illegaly. )
    What current Christians do not understand is that the early protestors in 1520 A.D. TOOK many man made, roman dogmas, and beliefs adapted after 320 A..D. with them to their new found Churches.
    Many small sects of TRUE EARLY BELIEVERS were killed not only from around 33 A. D., but UP to 320 A.D. ( feeding Christians to the Lions, etc.)
    Also, after Rome made the Christianity the official religion of the Holy Roman Empire, IT CONTINUED TO KILL OFF ALL who did NOT adhere to the BASIC CHRISTIAN BELIEFS THEY ADAPTED and enforced against its Roman Citizens. Since there were more PAGANS, the three godhead, the statues, the veneration of the body parts of saints ( other pagan gods ), and the dogma even included changing the Sabbath to Sunday, ( to worship the SUN GOD ) The original 10 commandment, given to Moses were also changed.
    It took out God’s Command against Graven Images, in order to allow for the adoration and praying to saints, which were repalcements for pagan statues, and the mother of Jesus, whom they vernerated as highly as her Son.
    Christian Churches mostly ALL today still have MSNY these pagan beliefs incorporated into their church beliefs.
    The CROSS was the way the CRUELTY do Death ONLY the Romans were noted for, it was a symbol adapted by the NEW roman church…to say THEY were in charge. Early Christians did not carry the importance of the cross until the roman church.
    Most Protestants are really still unknowingly worshiping in much the same ways of the Roman Catholics.. It was manipulated by the early Roman Empire.
    I did not mean to go on and on. But, many Christians, today are hated for their belief system. I had to explain the co-mingling of REAL CHRISTIANITY with the Roman Christianity, and how it was throughout history employed to ravage mankind and KILL much of every one in its path. It still is doing so, today.
    This has been the case throughout history…and ALSO why Christians are hated so much, today. True Believers are blamed for ALL the history of the evils performed by the Romans church. I want to say that there ARE true believers in all the churches, ( including the Catholic Church ) but that is also why there is SO much HYPOCRACY, as well.
    The God of the Jews IS OUR GOD. He sent His Son, Jesus, to reunite us in Soirit with the Father. The Romans made him into a completely different god. ( lower case….not the ONE true God ) WE ARE NOT TO WORSHIP this roman made god.
    Believers in Christ, according to Christ Followers, will be called out, in end times. The wheat will be separated from the chaff. ( I understand to separate the weeds from the wheat, while the wheat is growing only kills the wheat plant. Only at full harvest time can it be separated, so, as to protect the palnt.
    We too, in the same way, will all separated, at the end times, even from those we love…for not putting God FIRST.

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  171. Will you both adopt me? I love you!

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  172. Chrispychris:
    “All your big words, past degrees, legalisms, and your self assumed intelligence has not been shown any real knowledge on your part, here.
    All you know how to do is fire away without reading and learning more and then comprehending the real story. You refuse to see the truth.
    It really makes me mad, that you intelligent folks refuse to know the truth.
    Unlearned people…”
    ———————–
    Hey hon, I like James and UAW a lot even though I almost never agree with them.
    You ? Probably not.
    The endless assertion that your “truth” is the only one possible after looking at all the “facts” is horseshit, hon
    Aside from the regular forays you make into fallacy land- straw man and the like you fall into the NON- rational judgmental language trap about every other sentence :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgmental_language

    Also ya know? Because, by-cause-of, you or I think something or wish it or hope it or believe it doe snot make something a fact, nor true.

    Easier- hey! good to see you! You too delurker!
    and mostly , yup, but you know this one is having a great time wetting its pants chastising and slapping at us… the perverse side of me can’t quite walk away …:-)

    Liked by 1 person

  173. The bible can be used to prove or disprove most anything one believes. So how can it be “THE OFFICIAL ABSOLUTE WORD OF GOD”?????

    It is my understanding that abortion was not really frowned upon by ancient people as life was difficult and hard. It became an issue when organized religion realized they needed to fill the churches and the coffers AND “POWER” came to the church/religion with the biggest number of followers.

    Again……about money and power!

    “Abortion:

    Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?

    Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.

    Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

    Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

    2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

    Infanticide:

    1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless “suckling” infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

    Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

    Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

    The murdering of children:

    Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

    Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

    Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

    2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

    Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

    Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?”

    And it continues on this subject

    http://www.evilbible.com/god's%20not%20pro-life.htm

    PS – I apologize for the length!

    Liked by 2 people

  174. ChrispyChris – I have followed this thread since the beginning, have agreed with some and disagreed with others. I have respected each person’s opinion and the right to express it. However, I resent you referring to some that don’t agree with you and your opinion as being unlearned, and in some cases unchristian (or for other religions, not sincere). Just because some do not agree with you does not give you the right to judge them in such a manner.
    In order to get respect you must give respect. If you want others to read and maybe even contemplate your view you must also give the same attention to theirs.
    This has been a very interesting topic and much debate for the pros and cons has been shared. IMO, we can only continue to learn from each other and looking at the whole picture assists us in doing so. Continuing to learn does not make us “unlearned people” it just makes us broadminded enough to consider where other people might be coming from. (notice I said consider, not judge!).
    I’d like to personally thank everyone for taking their time to express their opinions.

    Liked by 1 person

  175. Thanks Helen. Just as always appreciate your input on matters of this day. This post brings some needed clarity to the debate. One size does not fit all on the PP and abortion debate. Ambushing people, lies and distortions are deceitful tactics that say more about the perpetrators than PP, which serves a useful purpose for our society. The people hell bent on bringing down this organization are the same that have no vision whatsoever for this country. Porch dwellers, remember Noah and all his other incarnations? Let us not feed the trolls. Looks like Noah is back in another form. Debating this issue with this new incarnation is futile. Hello Auntie Jean, Pi, Delurker, and all fellow porch dwellers. Glad to see you all still here.

    Liked by 1 person

  176. I am afraid you ole porch ladies, or men, may not have the ability to have knowledgeable discussion on all the past wasted words describing the killing of last This blog has some pretty strong personalities therein. We have lawyers, and professionals who are master debaters. They mostly like accomplishing and winning , at what they put their focus on. too.
    Men are usually more aggressive, in making their point, but none can be more aggressive than an older woman, with much attained knowledge and a good self esteem. Babies as they are being induced to come out of the womb.
    They are STABBING them in the head! to kll them BEFORE leaving the womb….so LEGALLY, it will not be called MURDER.
    ( it could also possibly be considered murder merely by counting the actual weeks of gestation )
    Many of you here, supposedly are educated, but lack of any study and watching the movies depicting this has not given you the necessary information to intelligently discuss the REAL issue.

    Also, click UAW’s last link. It show tweets and how this IS happening.

    The first 3 VIDEOS…are being banned.. In Oklahoma? Or maybe California?
    I will have to recheck that.
    How deep does this barbarism go? There is question now as to whether this infanticidal practice was being carried on since 1916.. Sanger started with ” birth control” back then and was fighting to have it be accepted,
    THE KILLING OF LATE STAGE PREGANCY BABIES ARE NOT PART OF BIRTH CONTROL, OR FAMILY PLANNING!
    UAW and JAMES are the only two of you on this blog who have any sense.
    All your big words, past degrees, legalisms, and your self assumed intelligence has not been shown any real knowledge on your part, here.
    All you know how to do is fire away without reading and learning more and then comprehending the real story. You refuse to see the truth.
    It really makes me mad, that you intelligent folks refuse to know the truth.
    Unlearned people( that is what your responses show ) like you will allow this craziness to continue…till the evil system will eventually use euphemisms to brainwash the medical system to get rid of.old people, like they are doing.to our helplessly have with young ! They already have this genicide forthcoming with Obamacare in place.
    When I discussed a mild health issue, at 60, with a doctor, he replied “what do you want to do, live forever”. Wow! That’s a forwarning of how they view the value of life of older people past 60 years old.
    This genicide is coming for you all next……no matter how educated you are.
    The system is in place for your demise.
    You all have been beguiled by your intellect of misled misinformation.
    Look at UAW’s link….then discuss.
    Check out UAW..links…a few comments before this…..

    Like

  177. Amen. UAW Tradesman….
    Your comment is exactly what I mean.. I really laughed at your response of me being a little long winded. You are really funny. I know that much about myself.
    The crushing of heads, or the stabbing of heads of full term or near full term babies coming from the birth canal…….to kill before they see light, to make It still legal, IS. totally ungodly. The average American would get sick to their stomach at that type if cruelty to an ANIMAL, but, the killing of these near full term babies to harvest specific body part organs for named organ part orders is truely, horrific genicide and infanticide, and is as bad or worse than human canabalism.
    These actions are something you would NOT EVEN have expected from our uncivilized forefathers of a1000, or even 2000 years ago.
    According to writings of one to two thousand years, man had MORE compassion, AND KNEW RIGHT FROM WRONG, even though they were supposedly less civilized.
    They actually KNEW what a human baby was, and I would have to be shown where the average man and woman would have indulged in this type of horrific behavior to their children or allowed this within their backward society.
    This blog has some pretty strong personalities therein. We have lawyers, and professionals who are master debaters. They mostly like accomplishing and winning, at what they put their focus on. too.
    Men are usually more aggressive, in making their point, but none can be more aggressive than an older woman, with much attained knowledge and a good self esteem.
    Thanks, UAW.

    Like

  178. even I’ll agree that Crispy is a little long-winded….but …don’t confuse abortion with selling parts off of 30-35 week fetuses….miss a period and have something done…fine….but my two grandchildren were just born 6 weeks early(5-2# and 4-1#) ….and I’m fucking pissed about this….people taking children the same size and crushing them to sell….GODDAMN…..

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKc5XX7VEAAvnCY.png&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/liveaction/status/623530148172660736&h=399&w=600&tbnid=RXxnBjMBlT-FRM:&docid=ziWa7lPJ0KbWpM&itg=1&ei=PoDOVZLJOJPnggTR7o_YCQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CCMQMygEMARqFQoTCJLggKPjqccCFZOzgAodUfcDmw

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  179. Hi, Lurker – Nice to hear from you, too! (We do seem to come out of the woodwork every now and then, don’t we? That’s a good thing!)

    I fear that Chrispy will not be swayed by even the most coherent, kind, and gentle commentary. “She,” or whatever, is apparently convinced that only “she” has been anointed by the Force, and it is her assigned duty to just yadayadayada/hallelujah/repent ye sinners/run from the beast until all the rest of us faint from exhaustion and our “Delete” buttons have been worn down to little nubbins… (I will add that the references to Buddhism have about as little to do with Buddhism as anything I’ve ever encountered… And I’ve “encountered” some Buddhism in my life.)

    But I certainly enjoy hearing what you have to say, and I’m confident the majority of The Porch agrees.

    Hope you have a good weekend. We’ve had a string of perfect summer weather for days on end now, here in CT; can’t get enough.

    Gato

    Liked by 1 person

  180. Crispycrisp, the folks on the porch are fans of Jimmy Carter. Check out his Xtianity and how it comes across. He does not proselytize. He simply works Matthew 25 and goes about his business. From all I can tell, he’s a gem!

    Liked by 2 people

  181. And hello to my fellow porch dwellers! Been missing you all and hope that Helen & Margaret keep posting and you all keep coming back to the porch. I’ve so appreciated the relationships that have formed here. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  182. Chrispychris, you come across like you think everyone here is just thrilled with abortion. Not saying you believe that, but it’s how you sound. I wish to kindly offer a different perspective.

    I’m Christian Left. I am pro-choice. My choice is not to have one, and my right is to have that choice and privacy about my reasons. Others are entitled to their own reasons and privacy regarding their decisions about abortion. We do not have the right to choose for others.

    Abortion is not going to go away by making it illegal or impossible to get in a safe clinical setting. It’s just not. My belief is that taking away a legal right to a medical procedure without eliminating the root causes is harmful, and preaching at people about it is turning them away from God rather than toward Him. Loving support and encouragement about alternatives is, IMO, a better way to go, and that really can only be successful when done by people a woman has *chosen* to make it their business. I also have serious problems with rapists getting a say about abortion, and getting visitation and custody rights. I have serious problems thinking God would rather have a woman die than be saved by treatment that might require or cause the loss of a pregnancy. My God is a God of reasons, compassion, salvation, glory and might. He’s got this, not us.

    In the end I think we can save more babies by preventing unwanted pregnancies. Planned Parenthood actually helps with that. Beyond birth control, I think we need our culture to cultivate kindness, improve our families, abolish rape and incest, and continue medical research in hopes that we are a healthier population (emotional and physical) and carrying healthy babies.

    The Christ I follow says they’ll know we are Christians by our love. Quoting scripture doesn’t make believers of people, and provoking/criticizing them doesn’t show you in the best light, or draw from them the response you claim to hope for. Just my 2 cents.

    One more cent… I think that lying to obtain access, taking illegal video, maliciously editing the video for the purpose of manipulating people with inaccurate portrayals is bearing false witness and underestimating God. God doesn’t need us to lie for Him to accomplish His will.

    Liked by 2 people

  183. Chrispy – Your loquaciousness is truly impressive – as is the amount of spare time you apparently have on your hands.

    Your “arguments,” not so much so…

    Gato

    Like

  184. Look Guys,
    The SACRED CHOICE….is the sanctity of life. Any other choice is not sacred…at all. It is another euphamism….to say avortion is OK.
    Selling baby parts has come to light…and ALL are inflamed by PP being caught in the negotiation of and the naming of the organs it is negotiating to sell.
    The subject of YOUR article is going to get both sides of this LIFE issue involved in the discussion. It is THE natural consequence of YOUR writing such a slanted position on this subject.
    Abortion IS supposedly, one of two of the most controversial subjects EVER discussed by mankind. My opposition is NOT unusual. It comes from THE mere nature of the article.
    This IS not JUST my opinion….
    Here is what ALL MAJOR RELIGIONS SAY ABOUT ABORTION, .even ATHEISTS and AGNOSTICS. Satanics are not mentioned, as they DO make blood sacrifices, abortion would line up with their worship rituals.

    Early Christian Tradition

    Judeo-Christian tradition going back thousands of years has always valued human life, including unborn human life. The Bible repeatedly refers to children before birth as simply very small/young children. In Luke’s Gospel, Jesus and John the Baptist ‘greet’ one another whilst they are still in the wombs of their mothers. Verse 41 of the first chapter says: “It happened, when Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.”

    Psalm 139 describes the development of the unborn baby: “For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body.” One of the earliest Christian writings, the Didache or the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles states: “You shall not kill the child in the womb or murder a new-born infant.”
    The Catholic Church

    The Catholic Church opposes abortion because it believes that life is sacred and inviolable. In 1995, Pope John Paul II wrote an encyclical letter called Evangelium Vitae (the Gospel of Life) in which he spoke of “the sacred value of human life from its very beginning” and of the struggle between the Culture of Life and the Culture of Death.
    The Orthodox Churches

    Generally, the Orthodox Churches forbid abortion as going against the commandment ‘Thou shalt not kill’. The Russian Orthodox Church condemned abortion in its The Church and the Nation published in 2000.
    Protestant denominations

    Many Protestant and Evangelical Christians are against abortion. In Northern Ireland, Catholics and Protestants have united against abortion. However, some denominations are more pro-abortion. The Church of England states that the unborn child is alive and created by God. The 1993 General Synod stated that “the number of abortions carried out since the passage of the Abortion Act 1967 is unacceptably high.” However, the Church of England also believes that abortion is sometimes morally acceptable such as when a baby is suffering from a serious disability. (Anglican website)
    Islam

    Islam teaches that life begins at conception and is created by God. The unborn child has certain rights such as the right to care, protection and life. Abortion on any grounds is forbidden in the Islamic holy book Al’Quran. “Do not kill or take a human life which God has declared to be sacred.” (Chapter 6,verse 151)
    Judaism

    The Torah or Jewish law forbids the taking of innocent life and stresses that human beings are made in the image of God. Maimonides, a twelfth century interpreter of Jewish law declared: “A descendent of Noah who kills any human being, even a foetus in its mother’s womb, is to be put to death.” The only exception was if the mother’s life was in danger. However, even though traditional Judaism condemns abortion, there has been considerable argument within the Jewish community since the 1960s about whether abortion is permissible.
    Buddhism

    In Buddhism there is no central authority on ethical matters but the Dalai Lama has spoken in favour of abortion under certain circumstances. In 1993 he said: “Of course, abortion, from a Buddhist viewpoint, is an act of killing and is negative, generally speaking. But it depends on the circumstances. If the unborn child will be retarded or if the birth will create serious problems for the parent, these are cases where there can be an exception.” (Quoted by Clive Erricker in Buddhism, Hodder & Stoughton, 1995 (page 119))
    Hinduism

    Hindu scriptures refer to abortion as garha-batta (womb killing) and the Atharva Veda describes abortionists as the greatest of sinners. Gandhi, perhaps the most respected Hindu of the twentieth century, said: “It seems to me clear as daylight that abortion would be a crime.”
    Atheists and agnostics for life

    Many atheists and agnostics view abortion as a violation of human rights and hold pro-life opinions for this reason. As one pro-life atheist who once had an abortion commented: “for the atheist who believes that when you die, your life is over… there will be no comforting of this being by a heavenly father, angels or relatives after a torturous death; there will be no mere re-incarnational transfer. Thousands of times each day unique, never-to-be again, individual beings have their one and only chance at life terminated.”

    As Doris Gordon, founder of Libertarians for Life, expresses it: “the purpose of abortion is not merely pregnancy termination; its purpose is to kill, to take the life of prenatal human offspring. Under justice, however, there is no such thing as a right to kill innocent people – no exceptions.” Atheists can be passionately against injustice, violence, murder, the death penalty and war. They can therefore, just as logically, oppose abortion.

    Like

  185. Hi Congenial Gang,

    The politically powerful and/or the self-styled preachers are NOT nearly as mighty as their penises (peni?) once thought they were – huh.

    Aloha! Shalom! Salaam!

    Auntie Jean

    Liked by 1 person

  186. Who is bearing false witness? I am bearing my own witness.
    And as for praying, that statement is meant for those who ONLY pray in public. I pray mostly in solitude, which hopefully you all do, too.
    You only pick and choose what to believe on the net. If you do not have that mindset, you downplay any other idea, without looking into it further.

    Is public prayer biblical? Is it okay to pray in public? – GotQuestions.org
    http://www.gotquestions.org/public-prayer.html
    How can I pray in public without praying to be seen by others? … to convict and is instructive for all Christians, but it does not mean that all prayer must be secret.

    God knows what each if us has in his own heart. He is the judge. Let him be God, we should not judge one another. You should not be judging me, either. I bring no bad to you! I only ask you to open you minds to other truths besides what you adhere to. That is discourse.
    We can go to the brethren and say what is not God’s way, but the actual judging is left to God.
    We should not be judging, but, maybe because we have lawyers up in here, and judges, you all are used to this agenda.
    On the net……
    To convict and is instructive for all Christians……but, you seemingly educated folk are not talking like you have a hankering for any of God.
    I understand, the intelligencia has been brainwashed into the state being a god. That IS socialism. Is that your agenda? It appears so.
    All science, law and masters of Degreed folk have been mind controlled by the public school system to believe what you evidently have reached a consensus of, You sound like you so not want to hear about God at all. Your response to ANYTHING I say is no to God. Your response says to me you believe he is so minuscule, and that man, his desires, his choices are way more important than any God. That tells me you may think you are gods…
    What has happened to Margaret and. Helen? Gato, are you really them?
    I have to bid you adieu.
    You self appointed monitors are really pretty crast and cruel.
    This is a well known site and was at one time a super followd blog.
    If you cut down, your bloggers, instead of discussing angrily, you may loose your more intelligent following, that can look at both sides, and actually like learning from others.

    Like

  187. Hi, Gairid – Poor Chrispy… Only a mouth, no ears. So sad…

    Liked by 2 people

  188. Chrispy – don’t you know it is a sin to bear false witness? Go educate yourself instead of trolling someone else’s blog with false information and fundamentalist talking points. You’re not apt to change anyone’s mind with your tedious rants.

    Liked by 2 people

  189. I try to live by the what I believe in….the Two Commandments of the. New Covenant of Jesus Christ.
    Love. God with your whole heart and soul.
    Love Your Neighbor, as Yourself.
    I recently started a Non- Profit, ” Charity = Change ” to provide Furniture and Household Goods to low income families and the elderly.
    We also provide furniture to low income Veterans, some of whom are homeless returning from active service. ( some of the same ones who are depressed, of which 25 are committing suicide DAILY upon returning home. )
    I do care for my brothers and sisters. Not many offer to help with the actual needs of the poor.
    I have seen the need in low income and the poor for 40 years as a real estate broker, acting as unpaid social worker. I have seen all the ravages of those working two full time jobs, and having little for the family at the dinner table, how the working poor WORK, yet cannot sustain a decent lifestyle for their families.
    Many of you on this website, could never understand what that means.
    I really do feel the pain of my sisters who have either had abortions, or are in the position of now having one.
    I say, there should be another solution available to help them out.
    Many studies over the years show that many of those having had abortions, suffer from depression and guilt, and some have deep psychological scars and emotional problems for the abortion(s).
    It just does not seem sisterly to help these women create those problems, for themselves, if we really want to care for one another. It would be more sisterly to help them sidestep these emotional issues they will no doubt encounter in their lives. Abortion creates MORE problems and sometimes MORE economic dependency on the state, when there is a breakdown of the women involved.
    My thoughts are that a more viable means of eliminating issues surrounding abortion, and the lasting effects on many of the women involved, could possibly leave a lesser carbon footprint on them and society, as a whole.
    This whole issue coming to light…in the video shows PP administrators
    NEGOTIATING the selling of said ” livers ” ( they are NOT calling them mere tissue, they are mentioning the purchase of individual HUMAN ORGANS. ) the administrator then mentions she wants a
    ( Lamborghini )
    I realized something, after seeing the fire coming from your breasts concerning my comments on God’s Word ( the Bible, in case you may not be familiar with what God says about all things) I am a non -denominational, Christ Follower, otherwise understood to be a Completed Jew. ( believing Christ is the Messiah-thus, a Christian )
    I respect anyone’s opinion, as discourse is the means by which intelligent people learn and grow in a society. Without discourse, the early great civilizations would not have had the knowledge or impact on life today.
    You all seem to be all fired up, at the comments I have made for God’s sake, which is Good. That means what is being said has struck a deep spiritual and emotional cord within you. See, all of mankind has an innate knowledge of God. Our spirit has that tie to the Creator.
    This is true, no matter what we cling to as our world belief. It appears the spiritual clash between the spirit which is inside us that knows the truth, and the our worldly knowledge says NO to the truth, is making you angry, because internally you know you will have to be accountable for your ideas and belief system. There is spiritual warfare going on, and your spirit is clashing with your accepted world view.
    That is spiritual warfare. The War of Good and Evil is battled within our Minds ( soul). When our spirit is right with a god, we are righteous.
    ( not self righteous, that’s when we think we are perfect. NOt happening here, girls! )
    I Love You, All, no matter what you call me, or think of me. That is what I am called to do.
    The battle is not with flesh but, between the spirits of good and evil. The evil IS inside every one of us! Read some of your comments. We must temper ourselves and act in kindness and love to one another. We shall be known by the fruits of the spirit we demonstrate one to another, then, we will be living good lives.
    No one is perfect here on earth..our expectations can be too great, of ourselves and others.
    No, I am not preaching…just sharing what I hold to be the truth.
    I do not mind hearing your personal truths, either.
    You all seem to be heated up! That is Good.. Before now, I mostly saw comments like,
    “yeah”, ” great comment”, ” so true”. Now there is life back in you, because your spirit is being challenged.
    Think about that.
    God Bless Us, All!
    Chris

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  190. Say Amen, Sister Mageen; Say Amen, Brother Cory! And say again, Amen!

    Liked by 1 person

  191. Don’t speak to me about your religion; first show it to me in how you treat other people.
    Don’t tell me how much you love your God; show me in how much you love all His children.
    Don’t preach to me your passion for your faith; teach me through your compassion for your neighbors.
    In the end, I’m not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as in how you choose to live and give.

    A quote from Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey.

    Liked by 1 person

  192. Gato, when I was a kid spending some time in a BIG city there were occasional street corner fire and brimstone preachers. They were so much in love with the sound of their own voices that if it were possible they would have mated with that sound! My mother was very suspicious of them. The Second World War was in full swing and she could not understand why a hale and hearty male would be soapboxing when all the others who were not in uniform were working night and day in the local defense plants. My dad knew. He told us that no foreman or plant manager wants anyone driving rivets into a plane while holding forth vocalizing so loud he could be heard over the noise, and he would be seriously distracting the rest of the crew and most likely causing accidents. According to dad, these soapboxers gave themselves away in the hiring process. In other words, they were not team people and really did not know or care to “play nice.”

    As for the story of the slaughter of innocents ordered by King Herod, excavations have not found any mass graves or other evidence that this really happened. Herod may have threatened but the evidence of mass murder is missing.

    Does this devalue scripture? Not if you look at the Old and New Testaments as a chronicle of what the local people were enduring and how they handled being a subject population as well as tribes dependent on nomadic livestock agriculture in a land that was not any where as good as the Fertile Crescent . They had to work exceptionally hard to grow what they got to eat, build towns and even great cities. I can respect all that hard work and determination.

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  193. Oops, Mageen – Hit the “wrong” button and cut myself off. Maybe the Universe is trying to tell me something! Pretty eloquent, our Universe… 🙂

    Gato

    Liked by 1 person

  194. Hi, Mageen – Very well put; thanks.

    I, too, love to hear the sound of my own voice – and somebody else’s blog is the perfect place to practice that, I’ll admit. But I

    Liked by 1 person

  195. Crispychris, you are praying aloud in public something that is not such a good thing according to the bible. Its pretty obvious that despite all the alphabet you put out, your real gig is that you are addicted to soapboxing. Real change comes rather quietly one on one and often namelessly. Right now you are also addicted to the thrill of your own “voice”. I would bet that if someone you actually knew offered you some R & R, you would be aghast and refuse cuz your “quest” is way more important than anything else. Yes, dear. I know. There is nothing like the high that comes with religion.

    Liked by 2 people

  196. For Jill: we both pretty much posted the same information, you just did it better than I did! (lol) Thanks

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  197. Nancy.
    That was King Herod who ordered the killing of all the boy children 2 and under.
    Learn what the old timers did in the Bible, for every human condition was exemplified, and can only be repeated, throughout history, over and over. There is a nothing new under the sun. Our learning of this history is meant for man to NOT repeat the same mistakes and make us aware of the natural consequences of our choices.
    It is surprising how little people know about the history of God, Today. That is how far away our society has gone away from God. We are seeing in our society today, the negative results, of severing our spiritual relationship with our Creator!
    Herod was on a quest to get rid of the Messiah, the new born Savior and KING. Herod, like all the guys at the top always kill off any one who threatens their top position.
    IF you are a God Follower, you are called to renew your mind and allow God’s Spirit to lead you to the truth and light.
    We walk in light and not darkness, when we are lead to the truth.
    College and Degrees only insure indoctrination to ONE school of thought, and is not necessarily the truth. Real Truth comes from the creator of all things, whomever you perceive your God to be.
    If you are following darkness, your truth will be darkness. If you are following light, your truth will bring your lamp stand, wherever you go. Your light will shine even through all the darkness.
    Read God’s Word, to renew your mind daily, our confusion in relationship to what is taking place in the world will disappear more with each spiritual connection to the truth you encounter,
    Your soul IS your mind…..renew your soul, and mind, daily. It does bring Peace and Joy, that surpasses all human understanding. .
    Check it out for yourself, Nancy.

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  198. This is for the “Bible” people. Wasn’t there a passage in the Bible where someone was required to kill all the male babies. Was that Moses? Was the order from God?

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  199. EXACTLY!

    Gato

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  200. Let’s be clear. Allowing a woman to donate the tissue from her aborted fetus is not “selling to the highest bidder” anymore than allowing a family to donate organs from a deceased loved one. Getting reimbursed for shipping costs is a far cry from creating a profit center but, regardless of your personal beliefs, that is perfectly legal. PP broke no laws. None. End of story. Research company wants tissue for research. PP has tissue that will otherwise be destroyed. The abortion didn’t happen in order to get the tissue. Women are not stupid. Quit acting like we are.

    Liked by 4 people

  201. Crispycritter, your vanity is beyond measure it seems. Now you know not only what is right for you but also what is right for me. Maybe we should begin worshipping you now being you are the newest member of the “all knowing” God club. I stand by my statement. To never be doesn’t frighten me in the least. The fact that I am here does not mean I somehow can’t have the capacity to love enough to put another’s wishes ahead of my own. You might want to do a little research. Pro-life is a relatively new fad in world religions, especially Christianity. Abortion was considered a sacred choice for most religions up until the last couple hundred years or so when churches decided population growth growth ensured longevity of membership. When you complete your research on this matter, I bet you won’t own up to your new found wisdom on the subject. Close minded self-righteousness is all too common in your world. Pity you can’t see the hypocrisy in that.

    Liked by 2 people

  202. Gato-
    “wisdom” indeed.

    from a dear friend of mine , a deeply religious man who was stunned at the deep mean-ness of too many of his fellow travelers…

    Liked by 1 person

  203. Hi, Pi – Nice calm, logical, and well-said comments to Chrispy. (“Calm” somehow eluded me last time I posted here…) Really enjoyed the link, too. Love that kind of stuff!

    I was somewhat relieved to learn that Chrispy feels she speaks from “wisdom” gained during her brief sojourn to “the other side.” Closest I’ve been is “A Long Time Ago, In A Galaxy Far, Far Away…” So what could I possibly know?

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  204. Chrispychris: “Margaret Sanger in the early 1900’s, along with early elitist industrialist socialists who were fellow birth control proponents; were also said to have been by many sources to have had satanic worship ties. Socialists, ARE ANTI – GOD, by definition.”
    —————————————————–
    One of my favorite logical fallacies here-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

    see example 1 🙂

    You are confusing a whole batch of things with that silly diatribe, above and beyond the irrelevant appeal to beginnings.
    And really, what the hell is an elitist industrialist socialist?
    I’m a socialist, hon, so be careful here.

    Chrispy- you are welcome to your views, your religion, all of it. You are even welcome to spew all over this blog as our hostess Helen says she can ( and she does) get over folks who disagree with her.
    However, you cannot exempt yourself from criticism by others . None of us can. Nor can you “make it so” as regards your assumptions about your religion being the one and only way to view the world by wearing us all down with endless repetition, absurd emotional and logically fallacious arguments..
    By finding some painting with roses and romanticizing a long gone unwed mother’s home either…
    women who would have been shunned in their communities were their unplanned pregnancies known, who would have been too “soiled” for many men of their time to marry, etc, etc, etc??
    It has never been pretty – this stuff- no matter how many roses you sprinkle on it all…

    Liked by 1 person

  205. We need to all remember that the PP isn’t going out and kidnapping the women seeking abortions. Women come willingly to PP and they must agree to allow the body parts to be used (sold). When I read the posts about selling to “the highest bidder” I mentally picture an auction room with people in the audience holding up their hands and numbers. From the accounts I have read and seen the “sale” is for costs covering the care and transportation of the parts being used. Isn’t using the parts for good better than disposing of the already aborted fetus in a dumpster or other undignified methods of disposal?
    I want to again say that I could never have an abortion but believe there are instances that might warrant one to another individual (medical, incest, etc.).

    Jean, I have lived in the Houston area my entire life and always wanted to stay at the Shamrock. Unfortunately that wish never came true.

    Liked by 1 person

  206. Chrispychris: “You all better be thankful to God and your Mom for not being aborted, as you would not being spewing such craziness about ugly children, and killing babies. God really is watching what we say and do.”
    ——————————————————–
    This is an interesting bit to nail down .
    Undoubtedly a logical fallacy, probably mostly of the ad hominem type, possibly a form of the (irrelevant) appeal to identity type.

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  207. […] On a stage with no vaginas, there were a lot of opinions about vaginas […]

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  208. Any of you PP gals know the going rate for a couple of fetal kidneys and a liver? Times are tough, and I’m in need of some shoppin’ money for the holidays.

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  209. Hi Congenial Gang,

    In 1951-3, I was working in Houston, TX at my first real job, living independently from family and long time old friends. A big new adventure. I did have an active social life with co-workers though. Where I met my future husband. Life was great!

    Big Oil was just coming into it’s own. There was a guy named Glenn McCarthy who built a big posh hotel called the “Shamrock” out on the outskirts of Houston. (Not to be confused with Joseph (Joe) McCarthy, (R) U.S. Senator from Wisconsin.) The progress on the hotel and upcoming “Grand Opening” were talked about for months in the newspapers, on the radio and this brand new thing called television. McCarthy was bringing in lots of big-wigs from all over and celebrities from Hollywood and Broadway to entertain. Frank Sinatra for one.

    I attended that opening night. A lavish affair. Later that night, it was rumored, (but never verified) that McCarthy himself personally went around knocking on doors and asking, “You got a girl in there?” If someone opened the door and said “No,” then McCarthy said “Here!” and shoved one in the room.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

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  210. UAW
    I am with you. I am and always have been pro-choice, but PP has gone off the cliff. They need to be stopped from selling body parts….like a commodity.
    Ultimately, choice is between a woman and her higher power, whomever it might be, at that particular time. We all have Free Choice in this world.
    I have come to believe for myself, over the years, how wrong the taking of any life…and NO legal jargon can say life is NOT life. I have changed my mind because of a change of heart, against abortion, but, I still do not think the government should dictate what a person does..
    WHO IS AN ADVOCATE FOR THE UNBORN?
    We humans cannot remember being in that state…prior to birth.
    PP is doing horrific genecides…with partial birth abortions….They deliver a LIVE human and put a knife through its head to save whichever organs it has an order for……to SELL at the highest prices…..for who cares whatever purpose…
    That is savagery, not just helping women in time of need, as they profess.
    If a woman under the United States law, is pregnant and murdered, the killer will be charged with the murder of TWO.PEOPLE, ..the babe….or bloob, or tissue is considered by law to be a A HUMAN BEING…A BABY….
    In an instance brought out by what you proponents conveniently call a slut, when she gives birth..to children….in or out of wedlock; Palin tells of the illegal ownership of an Eagles Egg is considered a crime.
    But, disposing in every fashion of a living human egg is legal…???? What the Heck ? This just does seem to be a crime against mankind. How can one’s brain not comprehend this concept.
    How conveniently society condemns an unwed pregnant woman, ( Palin )when it is convenient, yet, when it comes to getting rid of her unborn child, you hail a woman as a good cause to be aided by the process of abortion. ???
    It does not make sense. .
    I had a near death experience at seven. I went to the other side and came back, as I was told it was not yet my time. I do know what we can come to after this life. Those never having these experiences can not relate.
    My pleading with you on this site and my thoughts….comes from another world. I am concerned for the future mankind. We ARE really our brother’s keeper. The place I went to is worth postponing immediate gratification, or whatever we are promised, if we bow down and adore the evil one.
    I will keep praying for you, me and all of mankind.
    Truly, I Pray the ONE TRUE God of the Universe…whatever he or she is…will keep you and protect your soul…( mind ) from evil. This world is controlled by the evil one, and in order to make it through this hard test, we must overcome and cast him aside…

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  211. just wondering if those here that are OK with Planned Parenthood selling body parts are also OK with experimenting on rabbits and monkeys.
    Or is it OK to abort(and sell) a 35-37 week fetus if the mother thought they might vote republican.
    Is saving the fetal parts human vivisection?
    Before you get all upset you already know that I’m pro-choice but come on….some things just go to far.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://40.media.tumblr.com/5cadb4fdb3aba6727e823aaff4009ad4/tumblr_nrurc3cOj21sfdj2po1_1280.png&imgrefurl=http://personhoodusa.tumblr.com/post/124683079018/according-to-planned-parenthood-a-lamborghini&h=667&w=665&tbnid=ssCiEhYNQhVFyM:&docid=23wpFwZ3SUa8WM&itg=1&ei=vBTJVc26NoGjNuqAoLAE&tbm=isch&ved=0CB0QMygAMABqFQoTCM2IvYW4n8cCFYGRDQodagAIRg

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  212. Thx Helen for breathing some life back into blogland here. I would like to add a little fuel to the fire ragging on about La Donald Mobile and related phenomenon. There are two precedents you know. I will give you two names to look up before I give you my unbiased accounts with my eye-witness descriptions. Glenn McCarthy and his Shamrock Hotel resort in Houston, TX ca, 1951-53. (Not to be confused with Senator Joseph (Joe) McCarthy (R) of Wisconsin.) And Darryl Parmenter, Real Estate developer extraordinaire, especially here on my island, Kauai, HI ca. 1985-91 roughly.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

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  213. Chrispy – What you seem unable to grasp is that NO ONE HERE IS “SPEWING” AGAINST GOD; WE ARE “SPEWING” AGAINST THE INCREDIBLE HUBRIS OF YOUR APPARENT BELIEF THAT YOU – AND YOU ALONE – HAVE BEEN ANOINTED TO SPEAK FOR ANY GOD.

    You are evidently under the impression that your Diety is incapable of speaking directly and convincingly to anyone but you, and has given you the task of doing this job – which just couldn’t be done without you. Really? Is your Diety THAT powerless, that unable to rule the Universe without your personal assistance…? Are you kidding?

    In Christian theology, Lucifer was beloved of God, until he tried to BE God, and speak for God, and when he did so, he got pretty well smacked down. (Remember that part…?)

    So, my friend, you might consider trying on the cape of humility and surrender for a change, and letting God do God’s job. Trust that the Universe is working in ways that only the Universe knows and understands, and that your trying to force your “opinions,” and your “facts,” and your “links,” on others serves only you. They may be sort of interesting, and you certainly have every right to share them, but they ain’t God’s word. They are yours. Period.

    Gato

    Liked by 3 people

  214. Dear sisters and fellow vaginal retainers. I can so relate to your blog as a nurse then nurse practitioner(now retired after 40 yrs). I can relate to the fear, the scare tactics used in the 50, 60, 70 and so on, both as a young woman , as a mother and grandmother and worked in the early years at several planned parenthood clinics. We received bomb threats, tires slashed, fellow nurses and physicians were terroristically pursued, emotionally tortured, and killed just because they supported a woman’s right to receive medically correct and compassionate care. It is so very true…we will fight for our rights(and other’s rights)to ask for and receive humane and optimum health care. So as you said, we will not allow our rights to go to Planned Parenthood and similar clinics to be discarded as if they were political chaff to be blown away in the wind. Dory Hethcote RN, MSN, OB/GYN Nurse Practitioner

    Liked by 4 people

  215. Jill, it is easy for you to speak of loving your mother that much to have allowed her to make that choice, of having you aborted, of whether to have brought you into the world as the person you stand to be today.
    The whole concept of you saying you would approve of your Mother aborting you, as a PERSON today, is putting the cart before the horse. Who came first….you or your Mom? Of course, you can SAY this. You are NOT an aborted child! Wow!
    That is just another ploy being used to confuse the basic issue of your personage existing as opposed to your blob, or tissue or fetus tissue having never becoming the person you are!

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  216. Helen Philpot, you are a national treasure.

    Liked by 1 person

  217. As the young folks say, “You go, girls!!!” You rock.

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  218. Well said.

    Liked by 1 person

  219. Crispycritter, what you seem to lack is any true understanding of compassion and sacrifice. If not having me would have made my mother’s life better even just a little bit then I would no issues if she chose not to bring me into this world. I love her that much. My life is not more important than hers. You can go on and on all you want but your personal religious beliefs don’t trump mine. You are clearly barking up the wrong tree here and failure to see that is just a reflection of your own pride and prejudice which I believe goes against your personal religious beliefs. Pick and choose your bible quotes I guess.

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  220. Gato, some of those little ” rosebuds” reflected and saved in Higginsville on the property of the old unwed mothers home…..may be your sisters, your aunts, your neighbors, cousins, or your mothers.
    If any of our mothers had chosen abortion, maybe all the spewing against God would not be happening here on this blog, by you that do so.
    You FOR abortion on ALL accounts, should be totally thankful for life, itself, and thankful YOU are not one of those aborted…. tissues or fetuses.
    You really, really should….as the girls would say.
    The site of the 100 year old unwed mother’s home STILL has wild roses growing in Higginsville, Missouri. I understand, it is one of the most beautiful of sites to see. I found an acrylic painting of the roses scene on an old wooden house shingle that depicted this scene, at an educational show, some 35 years ago. I automatically liked it, and after I heard the story connected to the piece, I for sure had to own it.

    God has a way of leaving his footprint for even the unbelievers to see proof of His existence. God IS alive.

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  221. HI, Mageen – Thought I might just explain to Chrispy that my owl must have snuck onto my keyboard while I was out dancing naked in the moonlight last night, up by the lake, hence the “ungodly comments”… And then I thought, “Nah… Why bother?”

    Of course, there ARE lots of “alliances” about which we know very little, and they exist to serve only themselves. But it’s the attribution of their work to “Satanic” influences that’s ridiculous. Focusing on those is a great way to keep people from figuring out that it’s greed and power-lust that’s behind it all – not some mythical red guy with horns and a pointy tail. (“Oooohhh… JP Morgan Chase can’t be bad… I have one of their credit cards! And it’s run by all those nice white guys who epitomize the American Dream, just like Donald Trump…”)

    Gato

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  222. My thoughts exactly! Thank you for expressing it so well.

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  223. To all who dwell on the front porch: the “information” supplied by crispy crisp consists of decades old libels, slanders and general canards lobbed at anyone and especially women such as Margaret Sanger. As for Barbara Bush being someone’s else’s yard-child, if I could literate a Bronx cheer right here I would! And quite frankly, so what? Who cares? Only Crisp and whatever posse she runs with use this stuff to keep themselves awake at night listening for whatever goes “bump”!

    Liked by 2 people

  224. To gato top cat (yes I speak some Portagee) and all, Yes the SCOTUS rulings are based on English law. Introductory law teaches that. There was no question of that. However, iin addition, Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court built on precedent of Griswold v CT and THEN Eisenstadt to rule that laws banning abortion violated individuals’ PRIVACY RIGHTS. It is part of our courses and I taught that.

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  225. http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0914.html

    This is the link to Margaret Sanger’s Obituary!
    She died in 1969. Learn for yourself.
    Some of what she brought was good, but, she carried much more of an agenda, especially with whom she was associated, industrialist, elitists, socialists, and Eugenists from the United Nations. ( many of those in society that carried much power at the time, and still do. )
    NOTE: They never advocated limiting their own bloodlines. That is why even Scott Walker is a cousin to both Bush Presidents. They control ALL medias, and you will never hear about this in the mainstream news.
    The elitist owned media merely attacks and discounts those they eventually smash, only to create the end choices they will ultimately shove down the throats of America! They win! We Lose! No matter who gets elected!
    They either get their man, or they threaten to control, and nothing ever gets accomplished. If all goes against them, they merely kill the opposition. You cannot argue that !
    Sanger was also known for her Satanic ties, including attending sacrificial services, as was and still is being practiced by many of the elitists.
    Bushes are members of Skull and Bones, a secret society, and the Bohemian Grove secret society, pictures of which is available of MOST of the past presidents standing at night, in a yearly ritual, near water, naked, and doing something with owls? What kind of craziness are we Americans subjected to by these elitists? They ARE not like us. Stop trying to make them normal, and fit your idea of sweet political correctness, wholesomeness and normalcy.
    Honestly, by some of the ungodly comments, on this blog, it appears that some may be attending these satanic worship ceremonies, too ?

    http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0914.html

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  226. […] the whole thing here. Democratic congress critters: there’s your town hall meeting rebuttal when the crazies try […]

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  227. Girls,
    Much of this below was from a New York Times obituary on Margaret Sanger in 1969, when she died at 82…..
    Margaret Sanger was a card carrying, elitist, industrialist, socialist, who used the women suffragettes, who were mostly interested in getting the vote for women around 1913, to promote her Eugenics movement. If she had not picked the right time to push her “birth control” phase coined by her, and USE these less than caring women, for her eugenics agenda, she would have never been able to accomplish her goals.
    Those “birth controllers” were always for the limiting of certain bloodlines, except “theirs”. The movement was and still is the agenda of the United Nations. Their birth control was not for use by their elitists class. It ONLY targeted the poor, and the black. It still does. Abortion and birth control promotes white supremacy. The whole eugenics movement creates classes in the society and is another form of slavery.
    Most Sheeple are not smart enough to see this. Wake up, Girls…..and I believe, most of the main bloggers on this site are men.
    Girls, stop being Sheeple…..
    Sanger was a card carrying, go to meeting Socialist.
    Socialists are and never were God Believers by definition.
    The Eugenics movement was created and funded by the industrialists / bankers who always and currently have this socialist crazy society so confused and controlled. We are for sure seeing the results of their hard work, today, along with the other human control agendas.
    These same socialists includes the SAME banker industrialist families who funded Hitler, Bush and Family bloodlines and the other past 35 of 43 past presidents, and elitists were accused and convicted by the U. S. Government in 1943, of aiding and abetting the enemy and making HUGE profits from profiteering from the Nazi regime, and the genocide of the Jews.
    EVERY war has funded by these Eugenists. BOTH sides of EVERY WAR of the last 100 years, all over the world. This Eugenics Hitler- Nazi agenda is being carried out through out the world, today. America and Abortion has been the sideline poster child for their agenda of killing off 90% of the worlds population.
    Sanger had close ties to the Eugenicists of the United Nations, who IS the one world govt. ( even the traffic cameras were instituted and first mentioned to belong to the United Nations, when they first came to be used in our area, then, never to be mentioned again. )
    Sanger and her elitists also had ties to Satanic worship, which used blood sacrifices……of animals and humans. No wonder she would embrace the killing of human embryos and so called fetuses, a euphamism which dehumanizes the word for BABY, to make it more palatable for all of us to kill our unborn children.
    Study this… Girls…do not just discount those who Do use their brains, and study all things, instead of sitting on the porch and drinking lemonade.
    Sometimes the smartest man in the room, is the one most hated. Kill the Messenger. Man does not by nature like to learn he is not correct.
    I am not telling you this to hear myself. It is to awaken a desire in you to learn the truth. Check it out for yourself.
    I know many of you hold other ideas as truth, but, even you should look at both sides of everything.
    I have been where you are in my belief system, until I looked beyond my hard held ideas. Learn more about the people behind it all.
    PP does NOT do all it does for the good of women. It does SOME good, but, it does MORE bad, by selling tissue to the highest bidder, not JUST for science. That’s just illegal. It is Helen and Margaret.
    You two girls never comment on my writings…. Mainly, Gato.
    Who are you? Really? Really?

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  228. Did Margaret die?

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  229. […] https://margaretandhelen.com/… […]

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  230. Dear ladies, Thank you so very much for your wisdom and clarity. Hope some of “the men in charge” are listening.

    Liked by 1 person

  231. Hi, CoBlu – My husband was flipping through the Sunday Jabberwockys earlier today, and I overheard some pundit talking about Thursday’s debate, who said, sooo enthusiastically, “The great thing about the debate is that we had some real ‘presidents’ there.” And I said, “Is he effing KIDDING??!!”

    As many others have already pointed out, I don’t think we should think for a minute that, since FINALLY a couple of the other Repub candidates are now daring to “criticize” Odd Hair Boy, that he is no longer the very essence of their “base,” only magnified to an over-bloated size which even some of them are now finding slightly uncomfortable. But only slightly!

    Odd Hair Boy may be a “good businessman,” and a “good negotiator,” and an appropriate (ratings-garnering) TV “host,” but as a Presidential candidate he reminds me of the gigantic, overblown, lumbering, smiling inanely while bobbling and lumbering along, “Michelin Man” type “bad guy” from “Ghostbusters.” Just envision an appropriately-sized blonde Angora kitty on top of that creature, and see what you’ve got…

    Even after blathering on about how he “cherishes women” (yeah, like he maybe “cherishes” a salon blow-dry that actually works), he referred, in one of his endless tweets, to the RedState Gathering guy who disinvited him to their fest as “EWErickson.” He really hasn’t a clue… And he doesn’t even want one.

    Gato

    Liked by 3 people

  232. Your essays always hit it right on the button and also make me smile with your brilliant wit. Thanks, margaret Helen’s daughter, Gail in Patagonia

    Sent from Patagonia

    Liked by 1 person

  233. You did it again !!!! Absolutely correct in every way. The clown car emptied and it did not disappoint in terms of heinous, ignorant repartee. The only thing missing was the idiot palin.

    It would appear that these bigoted, racist, misogynist creeps are absolutely terrified by women. And isn’t it interesting that in the word misoGYNist we find the abbreviation for gynecologist, GYN. They are all about controlling the vagina because right now it is the last bastion for keeping “women in their place”. They are about to try to end equal pay for equal jobs and I believe ending women’s right to vote will be in the near future. Why do this unless you are terrified of women ?

    These terrible excuses for Tea Party Republican candidates are pandering to their base of angry old men, male one percenters and the completely ignorant who follow like sheep after every hate and fear monger that Faux news puts on their pathetic channel. No kidding………Parental Control Faux news off your channel line up.

    Any female in this country who would ever consider voting Tea Bag Republican should be ashamed of herself.

    Liked by 2 people

  234. Gato, Jean! Here’s a big hello! I’ve been “away” for awhile, busy with an inordinate amount of things. Its good to see you again.

    As for Crispy, she is the very model of The True Believer in Erich Hoffer’s book of the same name. No use arguing with her and even trying lightly to widen her experience. She’s got “it” all and “it” is all hers!

    Now, I have to get back down in the basement and sort more stuff out to donate to the thrift shops in my area. In a way, its kind of fun! The less “stuff” I have the lighter I feel.

    Cheers!

    Liked by 1 person

  235. Chrispy,
    You need to watch this and learn.
    http://tinyurl.com/q6wxefk

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  236. Chrispy,
    You said, “… I just heard.
    The Federal Government funds PP. If the funding helps pay to keep the electric on in those buildings, public money IS FUNDING ABORTION.”

    That statement is stunningly stupid and shows your complete ignorance. Do some real research, not the kind of hysteria you find on your Christo-Nazi blogs. NO PUBLIC MONEY FUNDS ABORTIONS AT PP. How is it you don’t know that? Oh wait, it doesn’t fit your misguided meme so you don’t believe it. Please take your ignorance somewhere else. This isn’t the place for it. I don’t care if you have a different opinion than mine. I DO care if your opinion was formed from the cesspool of ignorance and you are shatting it all over this blog that I adore.

    Liked by 2 people

  237. CrispyChrist,
    Go start your own blog. Your over-bearing and excruciatingly long comments make you a monumental bore, you know, the type of person who likes to hear her own voice. You are the type of person who sees the world as black and white with your opinions and only your opinions being the correct ones. You are the type of blow-hard that people walk away from at a party. Please take your christo-facism somewhere else. Really, I mean it.

    Liked by 1 person

  238. HI to some of you I used to call the “Congenial Gang” way back when and now, all you” Newbies”.

    Tsk! Tsk! gato. I must admonish you for casting aspersions on the male of the species for their seeming attitude toward women. It is my impression that they are and have been equal opportunity oppressors in the religio-political areas right along. For example, “castratos”, Farinello, perhaps the most famous of all. (Made famous by George Frederich Handel, you know Handel’s “Messiah” et all.) Even a third rate composer, who plagiarized not only others’ works, but often his OWN, to “get ahead” with his patrons. Not his fault that women had never been allowed on the stage to act or sing so SOMEBODY had to take the feminine roles for a successful play or opera.

    There were still plenty of eunuchs around to take care of the household tasks when the ladies in the harems were servicing their masters. What the masters did not know was this: If the “surgery” were performed correctly, then the male could still perform sexually, just not fulfill his ‘biblical and biological destiny” of procreation. Uh, shootin’ blanks.

    Aloha!

    Auntie Jean

    P. S. In this day and age, they don’t have to “nip the nads” anymore. A good high tenor such as David Daniels can “train up” and become a “countertenor”. Google and/or YouTube him to listen.

    Like

  239. I speak only for myself, period.

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  240. ChrispyChrist, there are plenty of “Christians” out there just waiting for you. Take a break from your virtual life and go make some real friends with people who have your same beliefs. Your life will be much more enjoyable!
    Peace

    Liked by 2 people

  241. Cynthia,
    What you say makes sense. They could sell live babies, which would still be pretty bad, but not as bad as creating fetuses with the intention of selling body parts.
    The U-tube video link of the woman who ran a previous abortion clinic is in one of my few days ago, past comments.
    The picture link
    is a large video screen with a blondish lady. Check it out !
    People do not use common sense, necessarily. Their agendas can be just about anything. Some people have pretty jacked up thinking., with no rhyme or reason to their deeds.
    You just cannot fix stupid.
    It is good to discuss these issues, as we have not really discussed abortion in the same light,
    Thanks, Cynthia, for your comment.

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  242. Well said! Really! Thank you.

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  243. Gato.. One of our founding fathers said ” sometimes the smartest man ( or woman ) in the room is the one most hated! ” ( cannot remember if was Jefferson or Hamilton )
    Exactly, what or who is your God? Who or what gets your ultimate worship?
    I am interested in knowing.
    I understand how life experiences may warp our concepts, either for or against God, as we go through life. We must question ourselves and examine our own consciences as we go through life.
    Why do you reject my words and always discount them under the guise of protecting others from my words. Why can’t others speak to their own stories, and personal rejections of my words, instead of you?
    The majority of Americans polled ARE actually pro-life…some are also pro-choice. They ARE for protecting life, in and out of the womb.
    You are NOT speaking for the majority. You do not speak for everyone on this blog, either.
    The Abortion laws happened to be pushed on Americans like Obama Care, which no one really likes. It, too, must also be changed.
    Many that originally accepted choice have since changed their minds, and are aware of the wrongness of this process. ( all things can change like the wind, people do realize their mistakes, thank God )
    There IS a more humane manner in which women can CHOOSE to NOT KEEP Babies.
    The momentum is building, within the court of public disapproval, and these PP videos are awakening people to the cruelty and barbarism the process of abortion really is to mankind.
    Hitler’s quote says ” If you tell a big enough lie for a long enough time, people will believe it.”
    The 50 year lie of the euphamism ” tissue, fetus,” is NOT a BABY” is under the microscope. It IS a baby. This IS a MAJOR ISSUE IN this upcoming election. We MUST stop the genocide of the helpless.
    We are a nation who watches Animal Protective Assoc. Advertising with poor little animals, but, discard our unborn like yesterdays trash.
    What semantics can do to brain wash an entire civilization of 330 million people !
    We must stand for the sanctity of LIFE, or this country will continue to crumble.
    The lie was instituted in order to dehumanize ” a child in the womb ” to influence scared, desperate women in need of help, to promote the ultimate discarding of women’s babies. Abortion at its heart and inception was originally created for the sake of eugenics.
    Margaret Sanger in the early 1900’s, along with early elitist industrialist socialists who were fellow birth control proponents; were also said to have been by many sources to have had satanic worship ties. Socialists, ARE ANTI – GOD, by definition.
    Sanger was a card carrying, go to meeting, Socialist. Her inner core nucleus of friends were of the the same thinking. ( Barbara Pierce Bush’s Mom was carousing with Alistair Crowley in Europe…see hiw much Barbara looks Crowley. Crowley was thrown out of Italy for being the vilest of the Satan Worshipper’s to have ever lived in Italy, by performing Sex Majik on his followers. Barbara Bush’s Mom was one of his followers.
    Sanger recrituted the suffragettes, to help in her movement to gain a acceptance of her birth control clinic. They were a lot more concerned with getting the vote for women than her mission of birth control.
    Sanger was another elitist, who also had ties to the United Nations, who still stand for Eugenics…and the whole of the movement stood to stop population growth….by ALL unnatural means, wherever possible.
    Naturally, Sanger did not stop or proport to stop the population growth within hers and her fellow elitist bloodlines. The movement was created ONLY TO STOP the population growth of those outside their industrialist elitist world.. The population control movement was to include everyone, but them.
    Sanger called for birth control to stop the births of babies. She called women to take birth control…in order to not create…babies; all this before PP ever embraced ABORTION. She called a baby ” a baby ” when she first started this movement.
    The barbarism of abortion must stop. It IS UNGODLY IN all the major religions of the world who use common sense, except the Satan Worshippers. Satan stands for and comes to Kill, Rob, and Destroy all that God Loves….Us, His Creation!
    Do not let your mind get stale and your heart hardened, toward God, while your age progresses in the hardening of your brain’s arteries.
    It really happens, really! Many here appear to be that closed minded.
    Read more, and know more, REALLY ! Gato and the Gang!

    Like

  244. Knocked another one outta the park Helen.

    I seem to remember a wise woman having some strong feelings along these same lines a while back…

    If my Vagina shot bullets, could I conceal
    it from Rick Perry and John Kasich???

    .
    😉

    Peace ~ Δ

    Liked by 2 people

  245. Chrispychris

    “I saw another video with a woman who had previously operated an abortion clinic. She said they bought cheap, lower strength birth control pills and latex to hand out, knowing the girls would return for what she hoped would be 3-5 abortions, each.This is genicide…for profit. How barbaric! All this to harvest baby body parts for sale…to the highest bidder.”

    Does this really make sense to you?? Do you really believe this??

    (This “woman” could make so much more money by convincing these young girls to give birth and then sell the babies for 10’s of thousands of dollars to the highest bidder.)

    I have a bridge to sell you at cost or ocean front property in Utah that not be affected by climate change. Things are moving fast so don’t take too long making your decision.

    Peace.

    Liked by 3 people

  246. CrispyKreme, darlin, there’s a big old world out there. Go see it. This time keep your eyes wide open. You’ve obviously missed a great deal.

    Liked by 3 people

  247. Wonderfully put!!!!!!!!!

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  248. This is an amazing piece….you had me at the first sentence!

    Like

  249. Whatever happened to separation of church and state? Doesn’t this subject qualify for that? Someone please tell me if I’m wrong and if I am, why?

    Liked by 1 person

  250. Sigh… Chrispy… I see you would lead us into your very personal territory here, and I will not follow.

    It is my understanding that there is only one real “sin” which no Higher Power, in any manifestation, will tolerate – and that is the real blasphemy of “spiritual pride.” Presuming to “speak god’s word” to others, with the assumption that the Higher Power is somehow incapable of doing so as well as you can, is – to this mortal, anyway – the very epitome of human arrogance. Only real “prophets” are granted the right to don that mantle, and only do so with true humility, compassion, and gratitude.

    The first commandment in Christianity says, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me,” and most other religions have an equivalent foundation. Nowhere, to my knowledge, is anything added like “…unless, of course, you yourself, if you happen to feel like it.”

    I always find that fact worth considering, and certainly not least in myself.

    Gato

    Liked by 2 people

  251. In response to the ‘god’ argument. Your god is not my god so why would you assume I should follow your ideas and beliefs? If you use god as your reason, then work on keeping your religions members following your beliefs. I’m betting very few follow ALL the mandates, etc. Most pick and chose what fits their own desires. – Well, that’s my experience with most people that claim to be religious.
    You should examine why you think you need to force your beliefs on others. You should make sure that every single child born to someone in your religion wants for nothing. Each child has 2 loving caring adult parents and have the financial support needed. When you’ve done that, then spread your world. Until then you need to work on the living children before trying to force more into the world. Remember some of those may be of a religion you don’t like.

    Liked by 3 people

  252. […] Follow the link for the rest of his post mortem. Also, don’t miss the review at Margaret and Helen’s place. […]

    Like

  253. Reblogged this on lifelessons – a blog by Judy Dykstra-Brown and commented:
    I’ve only read one blog by these two, but I have already favorited them. See what you think!

    Liked by 1 person

  254. The devil supports killing God’s creation.
    God’s Word is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever.
    His word will not come back void. Many have lived and died and been either a testament to it, or have served the spirit against him.
    Jesus would tell you to love one another, but, he also would say ” go and sin no more, your sins are forgiven “.
    We are Not forgiven, if we continue to sin, and turn our backs on God.
    We will have to face God and answer for our wrongdoings, and those times we did nothing for the sake of God.
    Man sins, but, sins of the spirit are the worst. In effect they deny God is the Most High. His wrath will come down on man.
    I know most of the ungodly do not believe in the devil, but evil shoes exist
    Abortion is Satan, the angel of darkness spitting in the face of God and destroying God’s Creation.
    We cannot continue to do this murdering of our young.
    Abortion is likened to a satanic offering. We are consuming our own, to worship Satan.
    We will be called for what we did against the very nature of who God is.
    His Word tells us who God is and his commands do not include killing of an offspring, nor any man. We will also be called for NOT standing up for God and His values.
    How can any of you be Godly people and deny all of this?
    NO religion teaches the killing of the unborn is “ok”.
    What religion embraces abortion except satanists, who offer blood sacrifices to their god.
    To NOT know the truth, and NOT live in the light, in all things is to be consumed by Satan, the father of lies, and death.
    The farther we humans get from God, because of our guilt, the more hardened our hearts become, and the harder it is for us to objectively see our sins and faults. To sin is the human condition, except when we are made anew in God. No natural man wants to admit he is wrong. Man really thinks he is a god, and continues to do so, until he has some enlightenment in respect to his personal relationship with God.
    We can all have that God / Man relationship. God walked with Adam in the coolness of the Garden. We have that same ability, to have that close relationship, by asking forgiveness of our sins, after Jesus went into Sheol to suffer for our sins. We can now go to the throne of God for Forgiveness,
    God really loves his Creation. He loves his children.
    Climb up in your daddy’s lap, he wants to hug and forgive you!
    God loves us all, even those of us who might have had numerous abortions. We must just stop this killing.

    Like

  255. Just a reminder . . . the President has to sign legislation in order for it to become a public law. There is no way this President will do that, even if it were stuck on to another piece of legislation as an amendment. There are some states who think they can on their own shut down PP facilities. One of them just found out that the Governor could not do that without first putting the idea on paper and sending it through a legislative process. That is exactly the way his state set PP up to begin with. And as for Snot Walker and his jabber about not allowing an abortion to save a woman’s life . . . well, the betting is that he will be one of the many to drop out of the race by the end of the year.

    Liked by 4 people

  256. […] On a stage with no vaginas, there were a lot of opinions about vaginas. […]

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  257. As a married man I find it increasingly more difficult and embarrassing to hear, read and witness what some of my fellow penis carriers have to say about women. Every man, Trump included, on that stage owes his life and career to the women who helped get him there. Helped dress him, supported him, cared for him and gave birth to him. This is no secret so why do men continue to pretend that women are “less than” and “not equal to”? It’s ludicrous and I for one apologize to you and recognize just how important women are, how amazing you can be, how much you contribute and that you are 50% of the team here on earth. You’re not 20%. Not 40%. EQUAL PARTNERS. How did we get to this point here that we’re even debating it? Should you make the same amount as a man going the same job? Why is this even an issue? Of course! Should you be allowed to make the choices for your body and your life? Of course! There should be no debate!

    Why did I mention I was married? Because without my wife I would be no where. Living in a dumpster. And not a good dumpster.

    Ladies, not all men think of you as the lesser sex, just small men. Remember that.

    Liked by 14 people

  258. Helen, you are my hero!

    Liked by 2 people

  259. I love you gals and always spread your blog around the web. YOU RULE.

    YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY HONEY.

    Liked by 3 people

  260. Reblogged this on Civil Rights Advocacy and commented:
    There were a lot of opinions about vaginas on the GOP stage by people without vaginas. Also a lot of bullying – of women and of immigrants. Is that the only opinions they have? Sad…

    Like

  261. Kristi T.
    I was actually a good looking child. I for sure had the boys chasing after me.
    Why are you making such a comment as that, me being an ugly child? That comment does not even relate to the subject of vaginas and abortions. You do not make sense.
    Kristi, You are also a beautiful person, in the eyes of God.
    You all better be thankful to God and your Mom for not being aborted, as you would not being spewing such craziness about ugly children, and killing babies. God really is watching what we say and do.
    Hopefully, as adults, we should be past the silliness of youth. The truth will set you free.
    I do understand the human condition. God also understands the tribulations of being human.
    PP does a great job of reproductive health and birth control, but abortion should NOT be used as birth control. There should be limits to what’s they perform. There are other means of birth control.
    I saw another video with a woman who had previously operated an abortion clinic.
    She said they bought cheap, lower strength birth control pills and latex to hand out, knowing the girls would return for what she hoped would be 3-5 abortions, each.
    This is genicide…for profit. How barbaric! All this to harvest baby body parts for sale…to the highest bidder.
    The eugenics starting these practices were not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts, to help poor women. It was started for population control of certain groups of society they wished to have eliminated. Abortion targets and is being used to depopulate the poor and to build the super race, by the elitists.

    Like

  262. Thanks for trying to right the wrongs that the GOP is committing on the women in our country.

    Liked by 4 people

  263. Reblogged this on Central Oregon Coast NOW.

    Like

  264. Well, now you know what the Republicans/TEA Partiers are promoting! But go ahead… vote for them anyway so we can observe your low end IQ in a shallow gene pool!
    Pastor G M Melby!

    Liked by 1 person

  265. Cryptoclearance – of course Griswold is an issue, but the specific details within Roe v Wade of what is permissible in each trimester is grounded in both biology AND English and early American common law. These precedents matter to the idea of when and where the state may intervene to protect the fetus per se. The third trimester is given extra protection for the developing fetus that does not pertain to the first two. Still and all the fetus never trumps the mother’s well being.

    Common law was the accepted basis for the legal use of abortion in the colonies, surely the most religious period of our existence, and NO one but Catholics had a problem with that. This standard was articulated in Hall v Hancock in 1834 to determine when a fetus is a person, and it was quite clear there that the existing legal view was that before quickening common law determined that the fetus was not considered to be fully human.

    This changed in the 1870s to the restrictive laws about abortion since doctors and religious conservatives brought their own morality to over-ride common law.

    Liked by 1 person

  266. As I watch the #overbearingwhiteselfcenteredA**Hole I got to thinking he said he GAVE money to Hilary and when he was getting married he TOLD Hilary TO BE AT MY WEDDING!!!! So sad he has to buy people to come to his function… How pathetic is that? If he gave me money and said that I would have told him ..We did not sign any papers that say You own me or my family. I asked for donation (?) or you just gave it. Now you want to tell me what to do? Bend over hair boy I will give you what you need.

    Liked by 3 people

  267. […] Helen wrote to Margaret in her blog, “On a stage with no vaginas, there were a lot of opinions about vaginas.” As for the winner of last night’s GOP debate, […]

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  268. I totally agree! Bless you, Helen!

    Liked by 1 person

  269. Preach it, Sister!

    Like

  270. I have just sent this to everyone I know!

    Liked by 1 person

  271. […] here and read, my friends.  Go forth and […]

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  272. They either don’t understand or don’t want to that 97% of the services provided by PP have nothing to do with abortion. So if all PP locations are closed down, that 97% of the women who need their services will suffer for nothing that they did except get birth control devices or the Pill or have a mammogram. Their thinking on women and their rights is not only archaic it is disgusting! You may quote me, there is not a real man among them much less any presidential material!

    Liked by 6 people

  273. God Bless You! I want to be you when I grow up!

    Liked by 2 people

  274. Actually I found a great Hollywood movie about the Palmer Raids during the early half of the 20th century to watch instead of the GOP reality comedy. Mitchell Palmer was a zealot much like the Xians in the Pea Tardy and the Dominionists and Evangelicals. He was obsessed with conspiracies and bombings, all attributed to Italian immigrants. He ended up jailing over 10,000 men, women and children of Italian extraction without due process of any kind. He got an omelet full in the face when it was revealed in public that he did not have the authority to jail these people. If anyone or anything had that authority it was the Department of Labor! Of course, he had a royal snit about having his “power” yanked. I had read about the Palmer Raids in undergrad school. The movie held very true to the history books and was very, very revealing about the power of a group of very, very wealthy men who would do anything to trample the Ameircan way of life to save the American way of life.

    Hillary is going to win, but it will be a very tough fight and she may not get the margin she hopes for and really needs. I can tell you right now that she is going to be “swift boated” like mad. There is still a House committee hanging onto Benghazi hearings even though all previous hearings proved only that she had nothing to do with security issues at any of the State Department assignments. E-mails? Hey, you show me yours I’ll show you mine. Even the company that provides the email service and software is getting it in the neck from the Right Wingers. And the RW’s have nothing of their own to brag about!

    I have no idea where I will be when the 2016 full Presidential campaign comes around but if I can do it at all I’m volunteering for Hillary. Here’s hoping I see a lot of you doing the same.

    Liked by 2 people

  275. I LOVE your writings! You da best!

    Liked by 1 person

  276. I’ve been a Republican since the first time I could vote – for Barry Goldwater. I realize that the GOP (Republican Party) was hijacked by conservative Christians several years ago. Instead of forming their own political party, they just moved into and took over the Republican Party.

    I’m 72 now, and for at least the last 50 years I have had the belief that men should not legislate what women can or cannot do with their body. That area of responsibility should be up to the woman and her God – not Republican men with conservative Christian beliefs.

    The “Republican Debate” was very disappointing – to see 17 people (clowns)who want to become President of The United States. It is disappointing in the sense of, “is this the best the Republicans can come up with for political candidates?” Good Grief!!

    The next President must have the ability to work with the U.S. Congress to make a meaningful and business-like budget, know how to work with the business and industry leaders to create jobs, and, actually care about and do something to help people who are less fortunate. NOTE: All of those ideas go against conservative Christian thinking.

    The conservative Christians need to quit their selfish ways and remember, WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? I believe Jesus would treat people more kindly than the average Republican…

    Liked by 5 people

  277. No vaginas, but the stage was assuredly populated by a bunch of dicks. It makes me crazy.

    Liked by 4 people

  278. Sharing this on Facebook now. Thanks, ladies. I mean it. Really.

    Like

  279. as usual. best points to be made. standing O!!!!

    Like

  280. Bush’s paternal grandfather, Prescott Bush, was the Republican Senator from Connecticut 1952-1963 and did serve as Treasurer when PP launched their first national fundraising effort in 1947

    Liked by 1 person

  281. I can remember when you could walk into a Planned Parenthood and get six Months of Birth Control Pills for free.
    You did not have to have any counseling (or other bs) unless you wanted it.
    It was also a place young women could hang around at, supporting each other.
    Believe it or not, I have very fond memories of going there just because I had nothing better to do. I always felt welcome.
    Thank-you Margaret & Helen for writing this post. People need to know of every aspect of what PP has really been about.

    Liked by 4 people

  282. “(a child is a child is a child) was NOT presumed to exist until ‘quickening’ which is the point at which it is viable. That is the foundational principle of Roe – the trimesters are based on that moral and physiological dovetailing of ideals. ”
    The precident that secured Roe V Wade was Griswold vs Connecticut
    based on PRIVACY.

    “Yet, for all their differences, the majority in Griswold v. Connecticut agreed that the “right to privacy,” in addition to being “fundamental,” was “substantive.” In West Coast Hotel v. Parrish (1937), the Court had rejected the idea that the Constitution protects “substantive rights,” i.e., protects certain activities from government interference that are not explicitly mentioned in the Bill of Rights. In Griswold, however, it ruled that “substantive rights” do exist in non-economic areas like “the right to privacy,” even if they do not in economic activities like the right to contract. Over the next 10 years, the Court expanded this fundamental, substantive “right to privacy” beyond the marital bedroom, ruling that the state could not ban the use of contraceptives by anyone (Eisenstadt v. Baird [1972]), and that the state could not ban most abortions (Roe v. Wade [1973]).
    please see

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/supremecourt/rights/landmark_griswold.html

    Liked by 1 person

  283. Thank you for speaking for women and their rights. Planned Parenthood is a subject we women will “go to the mat” for!

    Like

  284. How many are aware that Jeb Bush’s grandfather Bush was treasurer for Planned Parenthood and a big supporter? Things changed when Reagan picked daddy Bush for his VP and demanded he fall into line with the right. That locked Bubba and Jeb into the corner they are in now. Amazing what a little promised power can do to a man’s morals.

    Liked by 1 person

  285. Wonderful post–powerfully and eloquently stated. I am your fan!

    Like

  286. You can’t see me, but I’m giving you a standing ovation in my living room. And, a virtual high five.

    Liked by 3 people

  287. Helen you absolutely rock!

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  288. At-ta girl, Helen. You have my support! We are familiar with the stupidity of SOME men, but Snarly-Carly Fiorina?? It is evidentually clear, that she was ousted from Hewlett Packard for INSANITY!

    Like

  289. Crispychris – Go back to the Puritans and every other religiously directed colony and you will find that nope – personhood (a child is a child is a child) was NOT presumed to exist until ‘quickening’ which is the point at which it is viable. That is the foundational principle of Roe – the trimesters are based on that moral and physiological dovetailing of ideals.

    YOU do not define personhood. Each person’s moral insights do. And PP does not harvest babies for their guts – they provide legal abortions and offer the woman an option – the very same one I negotiated toward the end of his life about my father’s brain – to donate – and I mean DONATE – the tissues and organs to science. At the end of MY days, whatever I have that hasn’t withered will also be donated. Fetus to old fart, this is a wonderful social good. PP gets no money for this transaction at all – that’s the phonied up part of the phoniest video. But if you don’t believe in organ transplants and scientific research, then when you come on hard times, please don’t accept the treatments and benefits conferred by others. Don’t be an Ayn Rand hypocrite thinking somehow you’re better than the women who donated tissues from aborted fetuses and deserve the medical benefits you herebt scorn.

    Fetuses and embryos are NOT children. You’re entitled to think they are I suppose – so don’t have an abortion, OK?

    Liked by 7 people

  290. God bless you, Helen Philpot. Millions of women all over America thank you for your powerful comments.

    Liked by 1 person

  291. HONEST TO GOD, Chrispy (and I mean exactly what I’m saying), GOD is not going to “destroy this country” because we are “bad.” WE are perfectly capable of doing that ourselves. PP is not “murdering babies” to “harvest organs.” On the contrary, they do something PERFECTLY LEGAL (I’m not going to even get into your thoughts about the “morality” here), and that is to salvage what they can, with the hopes that research done on the tissue they have SAVED (and NOT flushed down some mythical toilet of your fantasies, BTW), might eventually save the lives of hundreds or thousands of future babies. Don’t you GET THAT??!!

    And, BTW, how many of those lovely little “rosebuds” have you personally signed up to raise yourself, I wonder…?Two? Six? Ten or eleven…? (It’s a hell of a lot simpler to hang a nice painting on the wall and feel virtuous when you look at it, than it is to raise a child.)

    Gato

    Liked by 9 people

  292. Let’s get these evil old men out of office!!!! Keep up your good work: I love you.

    Like

  293. Chrispychris: Personally I would never have been able to bring myself to have an abortion (with some exceptions i.e. medical). I also agree with you that there are so many people who can not have children that would be willing and able to adopt an unwanted child. However, I am smart enough to realize that any woman that wants an abortion is going to find a way to get one with or without Planned Parenthood. I’d rather have my money used for keeping the lights on than to feel I contributed to a back alley coat hanger abortion and the possible death of the woman who had it.

    Liked by 4 people

  294. …over our dead bodies? Don’t given them any ideas – seems they give rights to zygotes but not to already borns…wars, what-have-you. Crazy

    Liked by 1 person

  295. Seriously, I cannot understand a woman with any brain cells voting Republican. What part of mysogyny don’t they understand. I remember back alley abortions. I remember seeing friends extremely ill after a visit to one of those places. Planned Parenthood is a godsend to so many for so many reasons other than abortions. But, if someone needs/wants an abortion it is NO ONE’s business! Sing it, Sister Helen!

    Liked by 6 people

  296. Chrispychris,
    i bet you were an ugly child

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  297. Helen, you are just the BEST.

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  298. You speak for all women. Thank you.

    Liked by 2 people

  299. Great post! Keep ’em coming!

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  300. Planned Parenthood funding has so far been dropped by 3 states, I just heard.
    The Federal Government funds PP. If the funding helps pay to keep the electric on in those buildings, public money IS FUNDING ABORTION.
    Hopefully, the light on the subject and how horrific the killing is taking place to save certain organs, TO SELL, is just not humane.
    People scream about protecting animals from abuse, but accept the outcomes of partial and botched abortions as ” ok”. Killing a child in the womb is “ok”, but do not harm little poochie.
    The country is finally waking up to the fact that CHOICE does not mean being able to take the right to life of another person.
    For 600 years, a child in the womb has always the right to inherit, by law,.
    If one kills a pregnant woman, the LEGAL charge is MURDER of TWO Persons. How can that be, if a fetus IS NOT a PERSON.
    How could all these laws be tweaked to allow for this murdering of children, for the past 50 years?
    This murdering must stop. Give the children away. Do not kill them!
    There is a lovely place in Missouri called Higginsville, where a home for unwed mothers once was. It has nothing but wild roses growing….
    I have a painting of the ” Wild Roses of Higginsville”.
    It is so beautiful. Each Rose reflects the life of a SAVED baby from an abortion, from over a century ago.
    26 times pregnant women were referred to as “WITH CHILD” in the Bible.
    If we do not honor God, he will destroy this country, he so richly blessed.
    It looks like that time may be coming.
    A child is a child is a child is a child.
    An animal does not come from the birth canal of a woman. It is and always has been A BABY.
    Women just need to give the fruit of the womb away, if they do not want them.

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  301. Wonderfully written. Now if we could just get the Republicans to read it we’d make some progress. Do you ever get the feeling our country is going backwards? History is repeating itself and that’s not a good thing.

    Liked by 4 people

  302. You say it so well. I remember having to go through the underground network to get an abortion only 50 years ago. Then a Planned Parenthood opened nearby. After my children were born I realized I was one of the few women where birth control did not work. A few years after that I was one of the first 100 women to have a tubal ligation through them in my state. I have volunteered for them and solicited funds over the years. These so called men are so afraid of women they want to keep us underfoot and subservient so they feel like their parts are larger.

    Liked by 3 people

  303. I thought it very telling that one of Carly Fiorina’s criticisms of Hillary Clinton was that she (horror) supports Planned Parenthood! And so does my real,champion, Elizabeth Warren.

    Liked by 1 person

  304. Yhe magic of cell phones. 😲

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  305. P.S. There may have been no vaginas on stage last night, but plenty of boobs!

    Liked by 2 people

  306. This is one of your best ever! So true, so on point. Thank you, you say it so, so well.

    Like

  307. WHY would ANY woman vote for Rrpublicans? Seriously.

    Liked by 2 people

  308. WHY would ANY intelligent woman vote for Republicans? Seriously.

    Liked by 3 people

  309. To complete my response,I am a Republican but don not agree with total dismissal of Planned Parenthood.

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  310. You said it! Lets vote these jerks OUT!!

    Like

  311. While I am totally against abortion I have a lot of respect for Planned Parenthood otherwise. Many, many years ago, 39 to be exact, I went to Planned Parenthood because I had no insurance and I was having female problems, I was told that I had an abnormal pap and that I needed to go see a gynecologist and that month I finally got coverage and went to a group that started doing blood tests but never a biopsy and after a year of going broke with co pays I decided that there was nothing wrong and quit going. Two years later Planned Parenthood called me back and asked what had happened and when I told them absolutely nothing they asked me to come back in for a recheck , which I did and found out that I was a stage 5 with inter uterine cancer. I then went to a gynecologist that was recommended by Planned Parenthood, was biopsied, had immediate surgery and am here and alive today, in my mind, because of Planned Parenthood. I have worked with kids, foster, guardianship, mentor and natural, all of my life and out of these many, many kids other than a few, they have went to Planned Parenthood for female problems, not abortion, and would not have been able to get help otherwise.Planned Parenthood should not be closed to women but the abortion portion should be limited to extreme cases.

    Liked by 5 people

  312. Thank you! It outrages me that the Republicans could be doing this at this stage of our national life. Like you, I remember the days before Roe v. Wade, when a couple of friends of mine in college had to go the back-alley route and were first terrified, then ashamed, and in one case made permanently unable to have children because the fellow she found was so unskilled (she nearly died, also). They say they’re pro-life, but that’s an absolute lie, and the more often and the louder we call them on it the better. You go, Ms. Helen!

    Liked by 1 person

  313. A wonderfully written piece…Thank-you!

    Like

  314. Reblogged this on It Is What It Is and commented:
    Ain’t this the truth? Really … all those men talking about women’s issues …. as if the had experience! Uncanny ….

    Like

  315. Helen, I love what you always have to say. My take on last nights debate? They love microscopic babies and value their lives soooo much. But they also love war and killing people. I just can’t figure them out! What about the fertilized eggs that don’t attach to the uterus? Should we then be having funeral services for our sanitary napkins (do girls still use them, or are they all tampons these days?) just in case there might be a fertilized egg/child with constitutional rights on them? Maybe all your readers should forward your posts to the candidates. Maybe if they got enough……… nah. They’re too stupid. No, not stupid, just want to be elected at any cost. Selling their souls to the devil while they profess to be talking to God. Irene, 77 years in Michigan

    Liked by 3 people

  316. Thanks so much. I chose not to watch the GOP fiasco. I chose, instead to watch re runs of Breaking Bad. At least they are declared criminal, doing a good job with humor, and I don’t have to watch politicians pretending not to be criminals.

    I look forward to your weighing in, and this just gives me the recap I needed. I, too, remember going to Planned Parenthood for well exams when my health insurance was cancelled. I never got an abortion form PP. It was a medical clinic where I felt safe and protected (except for the odd person out front wearing goofy signs occasionally protesting).

    Once my daughter and her friend were sitting in my truck which was parked in front of Planned Parenthood and the woman protesting began to accost them with trying to talk them out of going in to PP. When I drove up, got out and approached the woman, I think she saw it was a mistake. They are wacko. You watch your vagina, and I’ll watch mine.

    I did however have an illegal abortion 10 years earlier. I was lucky and survived. Thanks to Planned Parenthood, women are protected from men and their throw back reality of what a woman contributes to society. PP is the only place I donate money (when available), because of what they have done the last 100 years. Margaret Sanger got thrown under the bus (I can blame Hitler for that one) and her disappointment that a woman would be President of the United States by 1927 – 37 at the latest, became a distant memory. We’re only a tad behind schedule.

    Keep telling it, Margaret and keep bugging those guys to be sane.

    Pamela

    Liked by 2 people

  317. Planned Parenthood does so much good says this TBB. Nicholas Kristof wrote an excellent editorial on the positive attributes, also noting if defunded, abortions would increase, which goes against the beliefs of last night’s debaters.

    Liked by 2 people

  318. GOOD for you! TOO true 🙂

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  319. Lady, I wish you’d consider running for president. You make more sense in a couple of paragraphs than those idiots do cumulatively.

    Liked by 2 people

  320. BRAVO as always, I mean it. REALLY!

    Like

  321. AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  322. Oh, Porch Sitters…! How often must we rue the day that our ancestral grandmothers EVER shared the news with some of these TBBs (“Testicle-Bearing Bipeds”) that they have ANYTHING to do with the creation of a new human!

    How much wiser it might have been to just let them go on believing as they originally did: At some point, a woman announces, “Hey; I’m going to have a baby!” to which the TBB responds, “How did that happen?” And the woman says, “Oh, I don’t know; I just felt like it.” TBB says, “Well, what about all those great rolls in the hay we’ve been having…?” The woman replies, “No connection whatsoever. I mean it. Really.”

    (And thanks to my beloved Soul Sister Betsey for the origination, far as I know, of “TBB.”)

    Gato

    Liked by 3 people

  323. THANK YOU!

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  324. Wonderful!

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  325. Reblogged this on YesButNotWithYou and commented:
    I want to be Helen when I grow up.

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  326. Bless you, Helen!

    Like

  327. Yes, Thank You for supporting Women Rights!

    Like

  328. Thank you!

    Like


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