Posted by: Helen Philpot | June 11, 2009

My Big Fat Ass

Margaret, whatever happened to common sense?  I eat a lot of pie.  I have a fat ass.  I get the connection.  You hardly eat anything, walk everyday and a strong wind could blow you over.  Again, I get the connection.  So why is it so hard for Bill O’Reilly over at Fox News to understand the connection between what he says and how someone responds to what he says?  

It’s just not that big of a leap to see a connection between the television news calling someone a Baby Killing Nazi over and over again and some religious fanatic deciding to finally pull the trigger.  I get that it is not quite the same as the pie making my ass fat, but I don’t work for Jenny Craig.  Bill O’Reilly, however, works for Fox News.   The emphasis, of course, is on that last word – News.  He should know better.  He is paid to know better.  He should be fired for not knowing better.

Fox isn’t called the Editorial Channel.  Neither is it called the Opinion Channel.  Last time I checked it wasn’t even called the I Pulled This Bit of Information Out of My Ass In Hopes More of You Will Tune In Channel.  Although, I would push for that last one if Rupert Murdoch put it up for a a vote.

No.  It’s called the Fox News Channel.  So someone explain to me where exactly is the news or even the journalists.   Anytime you try to pin someone down over at Fox for irresponsible journalism they claim that they are news commentators and not journalists.  You’re  on a news channel you moron so if you are going to be a commentator then you should be commenting on the news and not your misinformed opinion about the private medical decisions made between a woman and her doctor. 

You’re either a news channel or your not.  Fox is not.  You are either commenting on the news or you are not.  Mr. O’Reilly is not.  To be honest, I am not even sure what the hell he is doing.  From where I sit – on my big, fat ass – it seems like he is yelling “Fire” in a crowded movie theatre.

Margaret, tell me if I am being too picky.  You don’t get to say you are one thing and then act like another. Do you?  You either are or you aren’t.  Mr. O’Reilly needs to shit or get off the pot.  He pretends to be a news reporter when it is quite evident he’s a TV tabloid personified.  Oh wait a minute.  I feel like maybe I am skirting the issue and not being clear enough.  Let me see if I can put this in simpler terms.  Mr. O’Reilly couldn’t win a debate against Helen Keller with one arm tied behind her back.  I mean it is just so obvious and yet everyone seems to ignore it.  He’s no Walter Cronkite nor will he ever be.  Take me for example.  I am a big, fat bitch.  Love me or leave me.   Tomorrow I am not suddenly going to wake up and become Miss Manners with Jennifer Aniston’s ass.  

But be it  big or small, one thing I know for sure.  Bill O’Reilly can kiss my ass.  I mean it really.


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  2. Bill O’Reiley does not work for Fox News. He works for Bill O’ Riley and is not a reporter or tries to be. He is a commentator unlike Chris Mathews who is a reporter but acts like a commentator. A huge difference. Shepherd Smith, on the other hand, is a reporter and you will never hear any commentary from him,.but only news of the day. This proves the fair and balance approach AT FOX. IT IS A SHAME however THAT NBC or CNN cannot be more fair and balanced and perhaps that is why Fox is killing them in the ratings


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  27. For years now, I have thought about starting a blog because I like to rant and rave myself from time to time. In fact, I actually spent MOST of my time ranting and raving, particularly from 2000-2008.

    You have inspired me. But in the meantime, I’ll probably just read YOUR blog and comment here.




  28. For years now, I have thought about starting a blog because I like to rant and rave myself from time to time. In fact, I actually spend MOST of my time ranting and raving, particularly from 2000-2008.

    You have inspired me. But in the meantime, I’ll probably just read YOUR blog and comment here.




  29. Write on ladies!


  30. I saw this site for the first time today. I love you for taking the time to type all the stuff I bitch about every day and don’t bother to write. We need more thinkers! Also, you’re hilarious. Will read again.


  31. I found your blog quite by accident…started with Buzzflash and do not know how I got here, but I sure am glad I did. You have made my day and think you are just great. And, I’m also glad that you are from Texas…at least maybe now people in other parts of the country won’t think that we’re all idiots.

    I’ve already sent out emails with your wordpress address…I think all that I sent it to will love you…keep us the chatter. I’ve only read a couple of your items and am hooked already.

    As for O’Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc….you are right on about FOX. I tried to watch Hannity the other day and I just couldn’t take more than 5 minutes of his….well, I don’t know what to call it, but whatever it is, it makes me want to puke.

    I will be coming back here regularly to see what you are up to….take care


  32. Merrilymarylee,

    Good one. Totally agree that the wife should have input into Viagra buying. Better yet, the wife should be the one who gets the prescription IF she wants a enhanced Mr. Johnson next to her. This would apply to married couples, and let the single men do whatever makes them long(er).


  33. I have always throught that Viagra should require a permission slip from the wife before the prescription could be filled. While we’re voting out the Dicks, let’s put the Janes in charge of medical research, too. When I saw the commercial for the ED product that puts lifts on Mr. Johnson, so to speak, I thought it was a joke! Get those nuts (no pun intended, but what the heck) out of the labs and back to looking for cancer cures.


  34. Good advice from Werner.


  35. Geytdog
    wouldn’t worry too much, even without knowing the details, first offender should getoff easy, try to push through the lawayer for community work instead of juvenile sentecing, hurts him more (working instead of sitting around) and shows a will to change IF you can get him to support this…..

    just a thought, hope it can help……

    volontary work BEFORE court might help too…..?


  36. Werner, I broke three ribs a few years ago and yes it does take time. Main concern was puncturing a lung. . .ick. . .but just pay attn to your body and your doc and you’ll do well. I couldn’t do the pain killers cuz of allergy to -codone derivatives. . .that was fun. Not.

    Small update- scheduled for knee surgery in next couple of weeks. Stress fracture of foot bone (compensation) should heal by itself providing I don’t do anything (else) stupid. Shoulder’s fine.
    Stepson has court appearance mid-July. After that, who knows??? Should be a fun summer, eh?


  37. And Helen, Margaret or Matthew,
    can you please give us a “sign”?

    We all worry a bit and if it isn’t a new post, a few words would calm us and any comments on the comments would be even better…….


  38. James
    A0 nothing to do than take pain killers, the promised me 6 weeks + of pain, but 2 and a half are already over, and I was improving oncealready, than lapsed through my own fault and improving now again, so I guess by next week I can start diminish the pain killers (There a bore, jiust make you sleepy (Codein) no fun and when I worked a bit in the garden last sunday I got circulataion (pa;patation) problems….

    B) love the “catch your own hog” and have a BBQ idea VERY MUCH 😉

    C) most genalogy records in my family where lost in the war, both sodes are from the East (Breslau in now Poland and the Bavarian Woods that are now northern Czech)

    D) IF you go to Argentina, don’t forget, the hiking excuse is BLOWN ALREADY ;-P

    E) Hands of free flying ballons! the ribbon idea is a good one and a nice opposition for the “support the war” ribbons too.


  39. Werner, a high school classmate broke two ribs when she fell during a basketball team. Her doctor told her there wasn’t much she could do except endure the pain until she healed. I hope it isn’t that way for you.

    That was many years ago, and medical procedures have probably changed. How long do you think it will take for you to be back to normal?

    Thanks for the family story. Your son sounds like some of my relatives. Our cousin lost his farm during the farm recession, so he put a hog in the bank. It caused a lot of damage, but the tellers caught the hog and later had a barbeque.

    Our family tree includes, Welsh, Scots, Danes, and for my wife, Germans and French. There is a slim chance the native American group, Brule is related to our Dutch in laws.

    An ancestor traced our family from the first group who came here and printed the information in a large book. Our Canadian relatives who backed the wrong side in the American revolution still have copies of the same book.

    My wife and I found the same information in London’s Public Record office. Our ancestor came from Wales after an enclosure movement forced him from his land. At 27, he was one of the oldest men on the ship.

    I like the essay on health care. Writers have also suggested we should run the system as auto or veteranary insurance companies do.

    Honolulu Sally,

    I think Nancy and Mechelle pull (ed) the strings.

    I am not the first to see similarities between Obama and Palin. Their comomonality has nothing to do with their political beliefs. The two share personal charisma and they both have unusual biographies. Both were smart and opportunitistic enough to rise to the top of their profession. Hitler was charasmatic too, but no sane person would find any connection between his, and Obama or Palin’s political beliefs. I don’t think a person learns charisma. One is born with it.

    If Obama lost the election, he like Palin the Republican would have been the most interesting Democratic politician surrounded by speculation over what he would do next. If I voted for a Republican today, I would choose Mitt Romney, though none of them makes “my leg tingle.”

    Thanks PalinShutUp, for reminding us about the danger balloons present to wild life. Another danger is plastic pop can holders. Animals get entangled in them and strangle.

    I want to go to Argentina and walk in the woods–just for the autumn leaves.


  40. Jean – I didn’t write that post on CSM – oh geez, did you really think that??? I’m gonna go bathe in lysol now. . .


  41. re: balloons, I have also heard that mylar balloons cause tens of thousands of dollars of damage every year to electrical distribution systems. It is the metal in the material.

    I am missing Helen and Margaret too. I feel like my great aunt has nodded off and I need to behave and not figgit in my seat until she brings her attention back to us. 🙂


  42. Dear friends of M&H

    Please read and pass to as many groups as you can!

    there is a message on twitter asking people of the world to show support for the people of Iran by releasing green balloons

    those of you on twitter please pass the information back that releasing thousands of balloons is NOt a good idea!

    show support by tying ribbons to your car antennas, homes, trees….flying banners, flags but please do not release balloons into the air

    whales, pelicans and other birds, seals, turtles…could be seriously harmed

    I volunteered for a seabird sanctuary in the 80s cant tell you how many pelicans, turtles I saw dying with balloons in their stomachs it would break your heart if you saw it for yourself

    this thing on twitter was posted 8 hours ago 😦 and i just found out about it

    this is a quote from the following link

    ‘I personally participated in a beach clean-up of a 2 mile stretch of Long Island Sound where my group collected thirty large garbage bags full of deflated balloons in one afternoon. Balloon manufacturers will argue that latex balloons biodegrade at the same speed as an oak leaf. What they don’t tell you is that it can take an oak leaf up to four years to degrade, and that is only under the right conditions. When latex balloons land in salt water they will biodegrade at a much slower rate giving them more time to injure local marine life.’

    thank you!

    Liked by 1 person

  43. Oh God. I haven’t checked in a while and you girls are obviously doing very well! I love reading your rants, it’s inspirational!


  44. Greytdog!

    You wrote: “PS: He’s kind of sexy now…in a Gavin Newsome testosterone-driven way. Yowsa. I think I have a new crush!”

    DOWN GIRL!!!!! You’re not quite able-bodied yet.


    Auntie Jean


  45. Hi gang, grandma rock and Jo Atlanta,

    I’m pleased to hear that your husband’s amputations are behind him. Bless his heart! I’m sure the past few months have been rough on both of you. But you made it. That’s all that counts, right?

    I am exceedingly proud of my Native American blood through my full-blood great-grandmother. I passed it onto our three sons and in turn, have three grandchildren. They too are most proud of their Native American heritage.

    A number of years ago I did a thorough genealogy of both my side and my husband’s side. I have very little information on my great-grandmother other than her name, dates of birth, death and where. The rest is family lore. I have been quite interested in her every since.

    Sometime when I have HUGE chunks of time, I would like to track down her genealogy too. I understand the Mormon Church has extensive genealogies but I have some doubts about their accuracy and bias when it comes to Native Americans. Genealogy research is really time consuming.

    One of my most cherished possessions is a daguerreotype portrait, 12” X 16” framed on the wall. It is of my dad and his grandmother, taken in 1904 when he was six years old. She raised him. He told me many, many stories about her and her people.

    We had a friend of Mohawk heritage. He said that their genealogies were traced through the mother because a mother ALWAYS knows who her child is. The father, well, that could be a little iffy in any culture. However, the oral genealogies are supposed to be remarkably accurate. The same is true of the Hawaiians with their chants.

    There is a wealth of fascinating but little known history about stalwart peoples that most historians never get around to writing about.


    Auntie Jean


  46. I kid you not. This is an actual comment on The Christian Science Monitor report on Sanford’s presser:

    “Just sounds as if he was swept away by love, l’amore, amore’. I hope he follows his heart and goes to Argentina and drops out of US politics. Seriously, I left my husband for another guy – who I am still very happily married to. People change. At least “the other woman” isn’t a boy, or intern, or congressional page, or a campaign worker, or a prostitiute, etc. etc. etc…

    So, he’s still not as hypocritical as some of his fellow fallen comrades. But then again, he’d lose ALL credibility if he went back with his wife – so far, sounds as he won’t.

    PS: He’s kind of sexy now…in a Gavin Newsome testosterone-driven way. Yowsa. I think I have a new crush!”


    okay…my meds are kicking in and I’m off 2 watch the 2nd loop of Maddow. Nite all!


  47. Hi Werner and Greytdog,

    Werner, glad to see you back in pretty fine fettle.

    Greytdog, now if we can just get you healed up and a new post from M&H, we’ll all be back in business.




  48. Hi gang,

    I’m starting to get concerned about Helen and Margaret. This Mark Sanford ‘affair’ ought to bring them out with a few well chosen words if anything will.

    Where and how DO the Republicans find these Family Values/Self-righteous and Thoroughly Incompetent jerks and shove them into office? It never ceases to astonish me.

    Isn’t Sanford the same ‘governor’ who wasn’t going to take economic stimulus money? The ‘governor’ of one of the most impoverished states in the country? Then changed his mind, well maybe take some of it to renovate the governor’s mansion?

    And then he takes off, not to go hiking the AT but to Argentina for a romp iin the hay. Over Father’s Day weekend no less when he has four sons. Who was minding the SC store?

    Not that the Democrats don’t have some inept jerks in their ranks too, but they seem to be turning up with alarming frequency among the Republicans.




  49. A girl in Iran talking about the beatings and brutality which took place today. It is hard to hear, brutal informationl


  50. OT but important. Here’s a true Portrait of Courage

    On-Topic – saw the Hardball show Sally. Chris Matthews tends to be a wingnut in his own right. . .I was glad to see Dan Rather lend some gravitas and direction to the conversation. Not sure if I agree with Rather -“South Carolinians are a merciful & forgiving people” (except to those they lynched a few decades ago) – but he tempered Matthews rhetoric. Mrs. Sanford has now come out with her own statement – which should win her the I am (a Christian) Woman, Hear Me Roar award. . . especially if you understand how she was the one who tipped off the press corps to the fact that something was xtrmely fishy with the AT story. . .


  51. Checked out Fox News – Shepard Smith just ran the latest press conference without comment. Governor Sanford did not come off as a wise person in his press conference. Rather a weak person who didn’t know how to shut up.

    Then, switched to MSNBC, and Chris Matthews was all in a lather with some other politicos that didn’t know much. It was rather disgusting watching them doing the attack of possible areas of wrongdoing such as who footed the bill for the airfare, etc. He came off just as bad as some of the Fox news bloodhounds.

    Sanford is toast by his own admission. It shouldn’t matter what his political party is. I’m just glad he’s not the Governor of my State, or the next potential President of my country.


  52. Re: Sanford: Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha – He wishes he was hiking naked about now.

    Republicans have a deal I thought: The wife has to be in the hospital with cancer to spring the ‘I hate you’news along with ‘my true love is________.

    I am sad that I missed the press conference. I was actually working.

    Wish all well.


  53. The funniest report on the web so far is from gawker:
    The name, Sanford’s Presser: Instant Classic, says it all!


  54. Poor messed up Governor. I wonder how Fox news will spin it.

    Meanwhile, enjoy Stephen Colbert making himself the SC Governor. Really charming:


  55. ….Just got back in from hosp and laughing too hard about the Sanford affair. . . anyone wanna go hiking the AT??? bwahahahaha….

    Which lady is joining me?
    (But be carefull, IF we get caught, my wife spits and scratches and throws with sand……)


  56. Just got back in from hosp and laughing too hard about the Sanford affair. . . anyone wanna go hiking the AT??? bwahahahaha


  57. gramma rock, I am constantly amazed by the many native tribes in North America. Travel to any state and you will find indigenous people. When I visited New Mexico, I expected Navaho. Boy did I get a lesson in a pottery store in Santa Fe! I left with four pots, examples of four different tribal styles. I could only afford student work, but those are amazing. There were examples of probably ten other tribes’ style as well to tempt me. Us white bread ‘cultured’ folk are poor indeed if we ignore the real culture all around us.


  58. I stand corrected, gramma rock. It has to be Creek because the Oklahoma item is part of the story. My ancestors who fought under Jackson were better served. They were paid with a land grant in the Appalacians, completely unfarmable land. Still, it didn’t cost lives to get to that land.


  59. jo……..crees are to the north and west. there are also creeks that play heavy with andrew jackson. the cherokee saved a.j.’s scrawny little butt in the war with the creek. and that devil repaid the favor with the removal to oklahoma.


  60. The GOP keeps using the wrong head. I’m beginning to think it has to be a prerequisite to being republican…


  61. HN Sally

    ….They are polar opposites (almost pun intended). Who was Sarah Palin running for?…..

    As for the polar opposites, I wouldn’t go as far as sending Obama to the south pole, but Sarah is close enough to the North pole so she could go and have a look if there Hell freezes over, or any Dinos are left, and hopefully get lost on the way????

    And the other part should better be formulated:

    Where is Sarah running from? Intelligence, maybe?
    Sarah comes into a small town butcher shop and asks the butcher: “Today i’d like to have something I NEVER had before!”
    The butcher: “How about a pound of brains?”


  62. gramma rock, My Cree blood stops with me, but my sister did a good job of continuing the line, and I have lots of cousins. “ojibwe (the real pronunciation of chippewa)” That is so neat. Thanks for the lesson. Words get messed up when we don’t really hear the word. Regretably, it was not something the family was happy about. So I don’t know anymore than the family story about it. The connection goes back before the War of 1812 and Andrew Jackson, but no mention of how much before that.


  63. James, Interesting question “who is pulling Obama’s strings?”

    I agree with Werner, if anyone was, he would cut them. Or, being the most wisely diplomatic President that I can remember, he would stretch them so that he would not be affected by them.

    I would also say Michelle pulls his strings, and his daughters his heart strings. Also, his compassion and dedication for the people of America.

    A friend of mine stood for hours to hear him during one of his campaign speeches. What she and her husband got from that encounter was that it was about them, not him. He was running for us, all of us, Americans.

    You keep comparing Obama and Palin as the same type. THAT is the most annoying of your comments to me. They are polar opposites (almost pun intended). Who was Sarah Palin running for? It wasn’t for us. Or, maybe it was for Americans, but only “her” Americans.


  64. I’d realy apriciate a spell check her….. 😉


  65. Grandma (You) Rock

    Right on, anyone that is not completly “white dough” should cheerish their “other” heritage too!

    And for all us “whites only”, don’t dispair, we can just LEARN from the others and by this IMMENSLY profit form the mixed hodgepodge that we call our “countries”!

    My son (youngest) is 10 and fluent in 3 languages (French (mother tomgue) German (“father tounge”) and English (by loss of a DVD remote for over a year that didn’t let him cjange the language of his filsm, gave him a GOOD headstart on Rnglish he is building on ever since)) and I hope he will take Spanish as second language in school later.

    So let’s divercify, it’s our best weapon against the ingnorants, remeber: dumb may f**k good, but the smart evolve!


  66. From a blog I reposted on mine:

    My Health Care Reform

    from: poortaste:

    Want to save money on Health Care in this country? Drop the Western Treat the Symptoms approach and adopt a proactive alternative by teaching proper nutrition, diet, cooking, and other important aspects regarding our health in Public Schools, from Kindergarten to Senior year in high school. How many of us know what a balanced diet really means? How many of us could cook for ourselves for every meal? How much have we sacrificed in the name of convenience?

    The majority of our health care costs are a product of the FDA allowing Food companies to make their own rules, we live in a world where McDonald’s offers salads that have more saturated fat and calories than their Big Macs. Obesity, Heart Disease, Diabetes, and hundreds of other major illnesses are the direct result of our diets. The only half way decent food in grocery stores can be found on the outer edges, because that is where they keep the perishable goods that need to be restocked often. In the middle is a waste land of Nabisco, Nestle, and Kraft bull shit that has had all the nutritional value bleached from it’s ingredients long before they were combined to create whatever is in the boxes. Do not be fooled by the wide assortment of branded boxes, they are all owned by the same companies selling the same garbage tricking the consumer into thinking they actually had a choice in the matter. How can good wholesome food compete with engineered filler designed to melt in our mouths and shoot out our assholes all while providing ZERO nutritional value?

    When corporations are in charge of writing their own rules and feeding our population, we become stats on a spreadsheet and treated much like the Industrial Cattle Farms. They fill us with filler, made from Cheap Oil and Corn. Then we get sick after 50 years of it, and they treat our symptoms with Pills and Co Pays, just enough so we can continue to go to work, pay our taxes, and pay off our credit card debt……


  67. that anon is me


  68. jo said….gamma rock, I have heard of Ojibwa, but I didn’t realize they were Cherokee. I have about two drops of Cree (I think) blood on my dad’s side.

    i am cherokee, granpa is ojibwe (the real pronunciation of chippewa). two totally different tribes. my people are from carolinas. we live on the leech lake ojibwe rez surrounded by the state of minnesota.

    as for those two drops of cree blood….. don’t waste them : ) your old indigenous grammas and granpas made many sacrifices so that their bloodlines would reach into the future.


  69. About my avatar

    This is a little drawing by a politcal caricaturist (Gerhard Seyfried) of a Berlin 1970s Anarchist/Antifa fighter which is representing myself at that time pretty well.
    Fuzzy face and beard, long long hair and always into somekind of politcal mischive or other……..

    O (fun) tempore, o mores……..

    Now I’m a lazy Helpdesk techincian with a “nasty” mind!

    But my Kids carry the torch:
    My 19 year old son got arrested last summer for throwing a beer bottle (empty, good chap) at a cop.

    Mind you, that was AFTER they blasted him and his complete table with a watercannon through an open restaurant window. (There was a demonstration outside). He even got aquitted since he only threw it in the general direction of the watercannon truck and was half blinded by the water/teargas mix that was in the air at that time, he wasn’t aiming at any cop, and after what they did (remeber, that was a gang of 5 guys haveing a meal inside a restaurant, NOTHING at all to do with the Demo)!

    Otherwise he a rather peacefull guy, going away from any fight, IF he gets a chance…..but as for the rest of the family, DON’T piss us off.


  70. Hi James

    thanks for the shoulder pat and asking, ribs are getting better for the second time, after I made a stupid move last sunday (trying to pull my wifes leg by showing her my “cold shoulder”, turned to fast on to the wrong side (had pain killers and forgot about the stupid rib…..) …well only me to blame for an additional two days of extra bad pain…..)

    Got one more x-ray yesterday, but except of the pain no extra damage…..phew!

    Otherwise slowly getting better hope to get of the Codein stuff soon (makes me to tired and might be to blame for other things too….(posts, etc)
    ;-P )

    I think the main difference between Obama and Reagan is, that if someone tried to pull Obamas strings, he has enough brains to reach for the siccors and cut them.


  71. Werner, I hope your rib is feeling better. The family you helped will probably remember your good deed for a long time. If the persona you project on this site reflects you face to face, I’ll bet the boy had as much fun as you. You sound like someone fun to hang around with.

    I appreciate your point.

    Re- read what I wrote and quoted. We all know Reagan’s comment didn’t attract attention until after the Soviet Union began to crumble. It was part of a calculated plan to change the dialogue and lesson the Soviet’s psychological advantage.

    Reagan and others indirectly initiated the collapse, in ways I described earlier. Even some Russians believed they did. The right combination of leaders on both sides let the Soviet Union fall without major bloodshed. Most of the credit rests with the protesters who risked their lives and freedom as Iranians do now.

    Opportunism for the good of our country was part of Reagan’s job, as President. He saw his chance and helped kill the Soviet Union.

    I think Reagan never recovered from his bullet wound. Either that, or the first stages of Alzhiemers was affecting his mind.

    I wonder who is pulling Obama’s strings.

    I have been to your part of the world. It is beautiful country no matter what the season. An off duty cab driver gave us a tour of old Quebec. He showed us things we didn’t know existed.


  72. Jo Atlanta

    …Werner, don’t poo-poo astrologers. They can add a lot of insight if you avoid mass-market silliness…..

    I don’t mind astrologers in anybodys private live, but IF I remember right they removed them from politics with Henry VI?

    Good riddance for that (in POLITICS!)


  73. Jean, gang and all
    … But also the fall is breathtaking when all the foliage turns red and orange. There are actually tours for that time of year. We know of a hotel in Connecticut that jacks up the the room rate to $600.00 a night during Foliage Season. Obviously, we have never stayed there…..
    just a few more miles north in the Laurentiens (Mountain area north off Montreal) Autmn is breath taking beautifull, you get GOOD qubecaise and french cuisine and Hotel SPECIALS too.

    Anyone planning trips and having problems finding stuff ion the web, contact me and I’ll help.

    Screw 600.00$ Hotel rooms, this buy you a week ,3 to 5 serving suppert included, in Quebec!


  74. James
    a little history here:
    ….It was only after November, 1989, when the Soviet Empire began to crumble that the world began to honor President Reagan’s challenge as a harbinger of change…….

    in OCTOBER 1989 the Berlin Wall fell, what enabled German unification…..which in turn initiated and supported protest movments all over the “East-Bloc”

    Now Reagan might have profited by this, good actor and opportunist that he was, but he has in NO WAY initiated any of this!

    Just makeing my point here….


  75. Greytdog-I’m here , just scrolling along. REagan does touch a sore spot for me. My opinion back then was I hadn’t voted for a third rate actor!! My oldest daughter forewarded me a great articale on h im. Scary. Will find the link and post it,
    And a cute story for you8 Greytdoog. My friend with the rescued Greyhou8nd. I t hink iiit was the first one she had. The dog would be asleep on her back on the cou8ch with booth legs straight in the air when all of a sudden her eyes would fly open , she wou8ld jump oooooff the couch and race up the staiiiiiirs, run around and then come back down and doooo it again. When she raced back then she would hop back on the couch an, on her back and go back to sleep. The only thing we could figure was it in her system that it was race time!! By the way
    her name was DEmi, short for Demi MOore!
    By the way, for you volunteers, I go on Tuesdays to a Hospice offoice and answer phones
    whie they have meetings. It would be nice if you all were in my area so th at you could come to my birthday brunch that a good friend is having for me. Fourth of July Sunday.


  76. Poolman

    ‘ Coulter states, “I don’t really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester.”


    Maybe we can borrow one of these Noeth Korean missiles and shove it up her’s…..?

    I’d love that!

    To induce vomitting: Take one Ann Coulter at the time…….


  77. avotresante, thanks for the insight. I managed to keep most of the leaves on my orange this winter. I have a large SW windo in the master bath. The house plants get the garden tub because we only use the shower. They like the light and steam. My sunroom on the same side of the house might be better, except for the cat who destroys plants and cut flowers alike. It is about 6 years old now and actually blossemed for the first time last winter. I was so excited! I also read about adding minerals to the soil by grinding small amounts of citrus spikes. He also doesn’t like wet feet. I have trouble determining just how much water to give.

    gamma rock, I have heard of Ojibwa, but I didn’t realize they were Cherokee. I have about two drops of Cree (I think) blood on my dad’s side.

    Werner, don’t poo-poo astrologers. They can add a lot of insight if you avoid mass-market silliness.


  78. Sorry, forgot to include Lori


  79. Jean and Sally:
    …..Lori, You are so right about Reagan’s being a trained actor. He read a script fairly well. Think for himself? Uh, not exactly.

    Sally, who was pulling Reagan’s strings? Nancy and her astrologer.

    Well MHO is that Reagan was the first actual PROOF that you don’t necessarily need a brain to become Pres. of the US of A.

    And I still wonder how Obama got by with his rather well functioning brain, or can it REALLY be that you guyz down south ARE waking up from your TV implemented stupor……?
    Aw, no, still got Rush, Ann, Bill and the rest…. can only be tomporarily.



  80. M&H Day

    I volunteered to help a single mom.

    We have a neighbour of Maroccan descent that has a “behavourial challenged” son and she works often weekends, so if she can’t find someone to take care of him, he has to sit in the downtown cafe she works and watch boring walls.

    So I volunteered my fathers nday, took my son and him and we went downtown and watched a exhibition on Pirates, Corsairs and Filibustiers.

    Was a bit small, but rather nice and they had a free movie we could watch too….. so I did my good deed and we all had fun on top of it.

    After that I BBQ’d half a salmon (just lot’s of lemon juioce, a bit of Garlic powser, very few herbs and pepper and liberal rock salt from the saltmill, crusty outside and juicees flowing inside, mmmhhhhmmmm!) and enjoyed it with some white porto my mother in law gave me as a fathers day present!

    Otherwise my possibilities for voluntary work are a bit limited by my broken rib………..!


  81. jo atlanta…. i am a qualla boundary tsalagi (cherokee) and granpa rock is a leech lake ojibwe. i am a cherokee gramma in chippewa country.


  82. Jo Atlanta: Hey, neighbor! I live right up the road from you at the end of 400. Citrus trees end up with problems because they have to come inside for the winter. Both the intensity and duration of light is greatly diminished, and it puts the plant in stress. Mites are usually a problem and you can get rid of them with environmentally safe products. My lemon, lime, and orange trees all defoliated by the time I dragged them outside in the spring, and never recovered enough to thrive. It was a constant downhill battle, but I lived in the mountains at that time, when summer was about 15 minutes during July. During the winter a south-facing window would give them the least amount of stress. I’m going to give them another try next year now that I’m in a better environment.
    Also, fertilize with organic products while they’re blooming and fruiting, and make sure they’re in large enough containers.


  83. We are very lucky. While I helped my wife do some work at school, a tiny storm developed along an outflow boundary. Within fifteen minutes, it had exploded into a dangerous storm, and I got to watch and tape its development with intermitant trips to the door. My camera was running when the sirens began.

    The thunderstorm cooled a terrible heat index but it blew down three of our trees and the hail shredded our tomatoes, corn, etc. Many corn plants were flattened or snapped off. Our power was off for about three hours. A fifty or sixty foot section of a tree landed on our pickup which has a riding mower near the cab. The tree missed the cab and the mower and landed on the spare tire resting on a tool box. I don’t think the pickup has even one dent. Lucky us!

    While we live our relatively lives, Salon reports that the Iranian authorities are torturing some of the protesters. A seventeen year old boy who planned to take the university entrance exam test was arrested and held for over a day. He returned home with his face so bloody only his eyes were visible. His nose was broken.

    A picture shows his bruised back. Jailers also broke his fingers and cut his finger webs.

    One report has the government debating a Tiananmen-style massacre, but they hesitate as they discuss serious “ethical” problems.


  84. Haupia ice cream with fresh mangos! Sounds yummy. One of my favorite desserts is warm sticky rice with fresh mangos. I googled haupia. I learn such interesting things in blogs.

    gramma rock, what tribe are you a member of up there in Fargo?

    And as long as the subject of plant help is on the board, does anyone know anything about dwarf oranges? Atlanta is too cool for me to put it in the ground and I have a constant battle to keep it healthy.

    Four dead in Ohio. I remember it well. I had friends that were freshmen at Kent State, as well as other friends and a brother in Viet Nam.


  85. gramma rock here checking in from fargo where granpa rock is recovering from second surgery of left leg amputation.

    news from iran has really touched my heart. i have two persian american neices. their father was my brother, adopted in a traditional native american ceremony. he has travelled on to the spirit world\, but i aam still auntie to his children. he was an artist and years ago he was exiled from iran when the cia established the shah in power there. while in exile, his older blood sister was murdered in front of her children by her husband who was seeking a younger wife.

    change is underway.


  86. Hi gang and Sally,

    Late nighty-night stuff. Playing with worms, huh. We had a lichee tree in Kapaa that bore fruit like crazy. Our Hayden Mango didn’t though. Turned out we planted it in the wrong spot. First time I tasted mangos (out here) I KNEW I had died and gone to heaven!

    Yep, gotta try the Roselani haupia ice cream. I’ve never heard of that brand. You could put mangos on top of a hot dog or anything, and it would be lucious!

    I need some gardening advice from anyone out there. A couple years ago on the Greek island of Kos, I happened to pinch off three seed pods from an olive tree. The island was lousy with those trees.

    I wrapped the pods in Kleenex, stuffed them in the toe of a shoe and smuggled them back to the U.S. So they are contraband.

    I planted them in a pot and by golly, they grew! When they were about a foot high I was afraid they were getting root-bound so I planted them in our Pitiful Little Patch here. Big mistake. I should have separated them then and there.

    They are about 3-4 feet high now. They are very pretty, sort of lacy and look something like a juniper bush. Here’s my problem. I’m afraid their roots will or are already all tangled together and should be separated. How do I do that without damaging them? (I can’t go get some more.) How much and long of a root would there be? Does anyone know. Shallow, balled or spread out?

    Another thing. I have no idea what variety they are. No doubt there must be umpteen varieties of olive trees. Also, our latitude here is about 19 degrees. Kos is about 38 degrees so the parent tree is used to a much colder climate than our tropics here.

    My husband is agitating, when are we gonna get some olives. I keep telling him to be patient. 10-12 years maybe?




  87. Nixon. I really am not sure which one was worse. Bush (both) or Nixon. It is no wonder why the conservatives venerate Reagan; by comparison to those bozos he looked like he walked on water.

    It is just scrolling time for the M&H fans right now with such a long break. It’s like we are addicted to the latest from Helen and Margaret, but it is a good addiction.

    Thanks for your kind words Jean. My son is a rolling stone. Wherever he lays his hat is his home…. Well, he is at the age when he has no responsibility of wife and kids, and with each new adventure, he grows up and away more and more.
    And, to quote Martha Stewart, That’s a good thing. For all my kids, my greatest wish is that they marry someone good for them (if they marry at all).

    It was a blustery day today in Honolulu. I had to go out and dig my yard of weeds to get rid of some frustration and tomorrow I plan to chop off tree branches.

    I started a worm box – red worms that compost my fruit and vegetable garbage. Very fun stuff, and the “tea” they produce is supposedly very very good for plants. I will try it on my husband’s lichee tree which has never ever fruited for 15 years.

    Mangos are ready to harvest soon. I’ve discovered Roselani brand ice cream. Jean, you must try it from your local market. The haupia flavor is to die for, and if you top it with fresh ripe mango, you will think you have gone to heaven. Ambrosia.

    Apologies in advance for taking up blog space. We’re on the same side waiting for M&H.


  88. Hi gang,

    This ought to put a stick in the hornet’s nest, but LEST WE FORGET:

    Kent State Ohio, U.S.A, 1970, 4 students killed protesting Nixon’s invasion of Cambodia.




  89. Hi Greytdog,

    Ouch! Knee and foot bones too? Bummer.

    Please give us a full report and what’s to be done after you see the ortho man, OK?




  90. Hi gang, Sally, Jo Atlanta and jsri,

    I had almost forgotten about Chinatown in Boston. The first time we went to Chinatown in Honolulu I thought I was back in Boston. Oooooooooo! The food!!! Heavenly!!!

    jsri, yes, lots of lovely people in New England but such a Gawd Awful climate in winter. It would kill me now and Sally, you probably wouldn’t survive very long. Just be grateful you were there in a beautiful time of year. But also the fall is breathtaking when all the foliage turns red and orange. There are actually tours for that time of year. We know of a hotel in Connecticut that jacks up the the room rate to $600.00 a night during Foliage Season. Obviously, we have never stayed there.

    And Sally, what a wonderful life your young son has ahead of him with all kinds of adventures. You can congratulate yourself on a job well done.




  91. Daily Show in Iran…


  92. Starting to get worried about Margaret & Helen. The silence from this is almost. . . frightening. Hoping the delay in posting is not healthrelated.

    And we haven’t head from Gramma Rock, Grandpa Katie, or even UAW lately…So if you folks are scrolling through, please stop by, have a cuppa and some pie, and let us know you & yours are okay.

    Werner good to see you posting again. Lots of owies lately. Heading 2morro 2 see ortho surgeon about the knee…and now it appears I’ve cracked the bones in my foot somehow. (kicking the computer probably)


  93. This post keeps coming back to life…

    ‘Update: Media Matters has uncovered a 2006 clip from Bill O’Reilly’s radio show in which O’Reilly said, “if I could get my hands on Tiller.”‘


  94. jsri,

    You can sell the quilting stash in groups or as a lot on ebay. There is a huge ebay crafting and quilting section. I know, as I am a fabric retailer and have been selling solely on ebay for 6 years. I have international clientele and regulars for all 6 years. You will be able to get fair prices for it too.


  95. jsri – if the salvation army isn’t, I know a greyhound rescue that would be – they have an “army” of quilters and such who make dog coats for the greyhounds rescued in Europe. (and unlike here in the states, rescue really means rescue there!) For more
    Just a thought. . . .


  96. Jean:
    I was only kidding, I know where “Live Free or Die” comes from. The real problem I had while I lived in NH was how the motto was co-opted by hot air belching, chest thumping, right wing troglodytes who always seemed to visualize themselves on the ramparts defending the last bastion of civilization against those god-hating pinko commies.

    It was fun reading your comments and those of Honolulu Sally about your take of New Englanders. They can be a breed apart but down deeply, they are hardly as flinty as they have been made out to be.

    Caution!!! Never use the word Yankee to refer to a certain baseball team from another city or else your cherry pie eating Bostonian will become apoplectic at the mention of the name. It is almost as bad as being waterboarded.

    Thanks for your gracious offer to help my spouse. But she has had to give up quilting altogether. In fact she is about to unload her quilters stash which must be several hundred pounds of bolts and remnants. I think Salvation Army is interested.


  97. greytdog:

    One of the first questions I asked myself when I saw that photo was essentially, “How do they know if this is the right person?” because there seemed to be differences in the facial features between those of the young woman in the video and the picture on the web. But then when I saw that the MSM was using the pic I thought that someone must have verified that the two were of the same person.

    How wrong I was!

    But the question now becomes, “Who can you trust anymore?”


  98. ummmm… taro rolls! My partner’s brother took us to a place called Shabu Zen in Boston’s ChinaTown. Loved it. Who would have thought cooking your own food in a restaurant would be so good?


  99. Jo Atlanta,

    No, I saw Chinatown from South Station as we waited for a taxi van for all our baggage. My son is relocating to San Francisco for 2 months, then Germany, so we took home some things for him. It was not enough time in that city, and with a paranoid husband who won’t let me out of his sight in case of muggers, I did not get to roam as I usually like.

    We have a Chinatown here in downtown Honolulu. The kids used to crinkle up their noses because it used to smell to them. Great food. There is this fantastic vegetarian dim sum place with taro rolls, etc. Yummmm.

    Yes, MLP, we want M&H to post a new one. Sorry to be taking up space with unrelated topics to the original, but it’s our form of twiddling thumbs as we wait.

    Aloha and Namaste to all!


  100. While I applaud Twitter for its role in maintaining communications from Iran to the rest of the world, here’s what happens when people accept “news” without verification and fact-checking

    Amazing saga w/ grim twist: The “Neda” whose passport photo wrongly used by media says she’s now “in danger.”


  101. Time for a new post, Ladies! 🙂


  102. Jo Atlanta, I agree, Americans are as prone to active protest as Iranians or any others. We are all alike.

    Our history is filled with failed revolutions and violent protests. Wall street businessmen attempted a coup against FDR during the Depression. Farmers lynched or attempted to lynch a few judges during that same period.


  103. SherriA, my hat is off to you. You did a lot.

    Werner, the article by James Hershberg ImaginstaA posted said roughly what I did, though I gave Reagan more credit, and I think Reagan and others, including Gorbachev, accelerated the demise of the Soviet empire.

    I don’t remember writing “tear down this wall” brought down the Soviet Union. It became more important as part of the legend after the fact.

    John C. Kornblum wrote “Reagan’s Brandenburg Concerto which appeared in The American Interest On Line. “Fifteen years of Ostpoliti and six years of bitter argument over NATO’s plans to counter new Soviet SS-20 missile with deployments of intermediate-range nuclear missiles of its own had bred in many Europeans an acute aversion to any confrontation with the East. Growing American concern about the consequences of such drift was the primary reason that the speech, initially intended as a ceremonial address on the occasion of Berlin’s 750th anniversary became instead a major political statement.

    Skillful Soviet psychological “coaching” had created a widespread impression that peace could be secured only on the foundation of a perpetually divided Europe. In fact hopes in Germany and in much of Europe on that June day lay not with Ronald Reagan, but with Mikahail Gorbachev.

    It would be satisfying to claim that Ronald Reagan’s stirring challenge dramatically reversed this mood. The truth however is that Reagan’s June 12, 1987 speech had little immediate effect.

    It was only after November, 1989, when the Soviet Empire began to crumble that the world began to honor President Reagan’s challenge as a harbinger of change.

    Learned professors have sought to find deeper truths in a text essentially written by a fractious committee. In any event all such interpretations of Reagan’s Berlin speech miss a critical point: The presidents’ appearance before the Brandenburg gate was not an isolated event.

    The speech was part of a calculated strategy conceived over several years by Administration officials to counter the damage to transatlantic unity caused by the massive public opposition to NATO INF developments and to arrest the steady drift in Germany toward accommodation with the Russians. How do i know? I was the person charged with much of the planning and substance of the event.”

    President Reagan’s greatest skill was his ability to deliver dramatic truths in a manner that built confidence. One of the the many challenges facing the United States is to understand that the skill required to maintain confidence in our leadership is nearly as important as the substance of what we do. This involves more than making dramatic speeches at carefully chosen venues, but it involves that too. ”

    Who does that sound like? Obama. He cited Reagan during his campaign and praised his ability to foster an optimistic mood. Like Reagan, Obama makes “dramatic speeches at carefully chosen venues.” Its a stretch to say Reagan was a political role model, but as good politicians, both would see the effect of well-planned speeches.


  104. I didn’t hear any comments about ChinaTown in those Boston travel logs. Really? Aside from Boston Common, that was my favorite place. I was only there for one day. But that was our primary focus for that trip.

    re: stolen elections and Bush v Gore
    The big difference was that election was very close in votes. The Iranians are claiming a landslide for Amadinijian. Had Bush claimed a landslide, or McCain, I think Americans would have been in the streets. We have had very close elections here in recent years. Even with the extremes of viewpoints on some issues, when it comes to elections, our politicians chose paths of least offense and it becomes difficult to see the difference between them.


  105. Jean,

    Guess it is just you and me. One advantage of the time difference in Hawaii. The morning crowd can scroll on by our correspondence with each other.

    I loved the subway or metro system! For $1.70 we could go anywhere, even transferring lines! Amazing system, but not feasible here – too much water.

    I wish I had gone to a museum or two. I love art. I believe it is our little spark of godliness that emerges from our hands.

    jsri, I’ve made 4 Hawaiian quilts. The first one was for my #3 child. Started it when I was pregnant with her because I was taking classes from our local rec center. With each stitch, I thought of her with aloha (love). It took me a year to make, and I put it away for a year until she was about 2 years old, and then let her use it daily.

    About that time, I read her a child’s book called “Kate’s Quilt”. It was a story about a little girl who was given a quilt instead of a doll, and she was very disappointed until night fell and she used the quilt to protect her from the scary things. At the end of the book, she loved her quilt.

    After I finished reading the book, my #3 pulled her fingers out of her mouth (she was a fingers sucker) and said, “Tank you for my kilt, Mommy.”

    jsri, if you were nearer to here, I would love to help your wife finish her Hawaiian quilt. She sounds like a wonderful woman, and she is a lucky one to have a loving husband like you.


  106. I feel sorry for Ann Coulter’s Mom. Really. If I had a daughter like that I would be so ashamed and feel like I had truly failed as a mother.

    The things she says are so very mean and terrible, and done on purpose without humor.

    And the conservatives in love with Sarah Palin got upset with Dave Letterman for telling a joke about Bristol (NOT Willow) and A-Rod?

    Whether he needed to or not, Letterman apologized. He apologized because even though the intention of the joke was not about the rape of a minor, the perception of it by SOME people was. He apologized.

    Ann Coulter has never apologized, and she is one of the biggest pieces of shit in the media today. I hope her Mama wakes up and slaps her upside down and ships her out. Send her to Afghanistan. Send her back to hell.

    Oh my!


  107. Hi Gang, Sally and jsri,

    I guess everybody else has gone to bed so it’s just us.

    The NH “Live Free or Die” state motto is from a toast by a Revolutionary War soldier.

    Gee, Sally only three items from shopping? Well, better luck next time. At least you got some Maple Syrup. We have some friends that keep us in Maple Syrup. Nothing like the REAL thing!

    Oh boy, NH sure did used to be a Republican stronghold!!!! One of my husband’s oldest friends, still there, is a little to the right of Attila the Hun. He actually worked on Pat Buchanan’s presidential campaign.

    My husband was born and raised in far Northern NH. He was an old ice hockey player for eight years, four years in high school (his team won the NEW ENGLAND championship his last two years!) and four years in college. There was talk of going pro with the Montreal Canadiennes but he went into the Air Force for five years right out of ROTC. You’ve heard the old joke about going to a fight and a hockey game broke out? Over the years he mellowed out considerably and eight years of Bush, Inc. brought on a complete and total political epiphany.

    Anyway, I can easily believe your four cars totaled, jsri. Since I didn’t have a death wish, once a month I used to drive into the Museum of Fine Arts, park the car and take the El into the city. I would go to Elizabeth Arden’s on BEACON Street and present myself for a head to toe complete makeover. Then I would shop in the afternoon and take the El back to the Museum. On the mezzanine there was a beautiful Monet at the end of a corridor. I sat there peacefully on a bench looking at it for a while until I worked up enough courage to drive home. The whole day was quite therapeutic. It recharged my batteries to go home and chase two little boys for another month.

    Have you heard the one about Yankees? Around the world, Yankees are considered Americans. In the U.S. anyone north of the Mason-Dixon Line is a Yankee. From there, a Yankee is a New Englander. In New England, you are a Yankee if you live in Massachusetts. Only a Bostonian is Yankee in Massachusetts. And a TRUE Yankee lives on Beacon Street and eats cherry pie for breakfast!


    Auntie Jean


  108. BO and Ann still runnin’ at the mouth trying to keep the spin going.

    ‘ Coulter states, “I don’t really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester.” ‘


  109. Jean and jsri,

    I am really glad we went to New England. Yes, jsri, it has a LOT to offer – fantastic bacon, maple syrup, cheese, food, greenery, no traffic, farmland, wild animals, simple living (son learned to chop wood), great, open, environmentally conscious people. Didn’t see a single McCain or Obama sign or decal. In fact my son’s professors liked Obama (maybe they said so because we were from Hawaii?)

    BUT, It sure wasn’t a shopper’s paradise! No Target in sight, everything closes before dinner except for restaurants, and those are few and far apart (but ono! (delicious!)). I went to one store a couple houses down from where my son was staying for free in Vermont (with a family he found on Craigslist) and the store had groceries, tools, clothing, kitchenware, kid’s toys and plants. It was like a Home Depot, Safeway, Walmart, Toys-R-Us and Sears all in one tiny store.

    I have never ever gone away for a week and come home with less in my suitcase than when I started. And, because my “window shopping only” son and husband hustled me through the city of Boston, all I have to show for the trip is a license plate, bottle of maple syrup and duck lips.

    Well, that and the memories of a place so removed and different from Hawaii, it makes me think it was a wonderful dream.


  110. HNL Sally:

    WOW! You survived Boston traffic. It is truly unique. I learned to drive in Boston 60 years ago and believe it or not it was even worse then. Lighting was poor, streets were poorly maintained and there was a cop on every corner flagging you down to make his ticket quota for the week. In the pre-radar days the charge was always failure to slow down for an intersection.

    In the years I drove in and around Boston, I had four cars totaled, one by a drunk teen running a stop sign, once by a woman who ran a stoplight while talking to her dog, twice while stopped in bumper to bumper traffic on the Southeast expressway, first rear-ended by a drunk at 6 am and the last time by a guy tuning his radio. The last totaled car had less than 600 miles on it.

    But I have to admit that every time I have to take my wife to Boston for her specialized treatments, the old competitive juices get stirred up and I become just like the rest of the clowns on the road. The trick is to never lrt the other driver know that you know he is there. But you also have to know when to back off and that only comes with experience driving into the maelstrom.

    I lived in NH for 7 years and never did learn what the “Live Free or Die” thing was all about. When I lived there, NH was a wild-eyed Republican stronghold, mostly influenced by William Loeb, the publisher of the Manchester Union Leader an unabashed conservative. And just about each local community had a few wild-eyed politicians ranting about the Kennedys, Commie plots and the Trilateral Commission, in that order.

    Town meetings were like mini roman coliseums and each seemed to have at least one John Bircher. And ever politician’s career would rise or fall depending on their stand on the income tax. Favor it, and you were dead meat , promise to vote against it and you were a shoe-in. And still today, NH has no income tax. Property taxes are a burden however.

    NH has moved more to the center in recent years with the influx of Massachusetts liberals and a once burgeoning computer business. But it is a beautiful state. Glad you enjoyed New England. It has a lot to offer.


  111. Hi Imaginista,

    I forgot to mention the Harvey Wasserman piece. Excellent! Thanks for it too.


    Auntie Jean


  112. Hi gang, Imaginista, Werner, Greytdog, Lori, and Sally,

    Imaginista, your piece on Hershberg was one of the best analyses I have read. Thanks for sharing. Please feel free to send along any others. I will look forward to them.

    Werner, yep, your 2 cents worth is right on. And I quote you:

    “Nothing personal against any of the posters here, but this all embracing “we saved the world alone” attitude is a big part of what people worldwide resent about the US and their Citzens.”


    Greytdog, all of us are guilty of encapsulating our thinking and thus our comments into short, sometimes glib explanations when we KNOW there are always a MULTIPLICITY of factors at play in any situation, personal or political. How much of what we often say is wishful thinking?

    Lori, You are so right about Reagan’s being a trained actor. He read a script fairly well. Think for himself? Uh, not exactly.

    Sally, who was pulling Reagan’s strings? Nancy and her astrologer. It is my understanding that Reagan was a Democrat when he was married to Jane Wyman. I think Nancy’s father was a staunch Republican and a firm influence on both of them.

    Also, Sally, I forgot to warn you about the Boston drivers. Maybe I didn’t want to spoil your trip!!!!! When we lived there, the joke going around, (not too funny) was that Boston drivers didn’t drive it, they AIMED it! A four stop intersection was a competitive challenge!

    Around every corner in Boston, Philadelphia, Washington and New York too, is an historical landmark. Fortunately, we had time to check out many of them when we lived there. My husband went to Washington almost once a week then, (in one day!) Occasionally I went with him and he would drop me off at one of the Smithsonians and pick me up at 5PM. I had a ball!!!

    Our forefathers were quite an extraordinary group of men. They were well educated in European thought, history and political philosophy. They had the WISDOM to cull out the no good and keep the best when carving out a whole new country. It is still a ‘Work-in-Progress!’ We’re gettin’ there, one baby step at a time.


    Auntie Jean


  113. I prefer the term “traditionally built.” And yes, O’Reilly is a big fat blowhard.


  114. Helen & Margaret – one of the many things we all love about you two is telling it like it is. Also, that you will get to things in your own sweet time. I bought a sweet time clock today so I’m a little more prepared to do that myself! Be well and we’ll see ya when we see ya.


  115. lori, it is almost scary how similiar we think. So if Reagan was the consummate actor, who was pulling his strings? Maybe Bush Senior and friends?

    Werner, in Boston, my hubby and I got into a cab driven by a maniac (seems they all are) and when he found out we were from Hawaii, he laughed and said “good, you can give me Obama (Hawaiian) money.” He was from Jamaica, studying to be a lawyer, and we had a loud discourse from him about America and how America now has a good president. He kept turning back to talk to us, in the midst of fast driving in heavy traffic, and we hardly had a chance to put in any conversation. One thing he was most adamant about was the arrogance of the USA. He said that the USA has always wanted to control other nations, tell them what to do. He said other nations don’t want US control. Other nations don’t necessarily want to be like the USA.

    It was with great relief that we arrived at the hotel in one piece and we could give him his “Obama money”. What a character!

    This first time to the East coast of the USA was such an eye opener for a local girl like me. The variety of people, the differences in our ways of thinking and lifestyles, the expanse of beautiful land with aged buildings and the brick and concrete of big cities. It’s a big and wonderful America we live in.

    I had to bring back a New Hampshire license plate. State motto on it is “Live Free or Die”.

    Amazing words, and though I have no genetic or cultural connection to our Nation’s founders, I feel proud to be part of my country and glad for the bravery and conviction our forefathers had.

    The Iranians today are also brave. They feel cheated. I wonder if we would have had Al Gore for President if we had taken to the streets in 2000?


  116. James,

    I spent 8 hours Saturday at a local nursing home — painting, cleaning, & doing general ‘fix-it-ups.’ I also delivered & installed several finch feeders w/ food for the residents to enjoy and cooked a hot picnic meal for the residents. I dragged 7 friends w/ me. We had a great time, and I think the residents thoroughly enjoyed it, also!

    That was my “Margaret & Helen Day.” Anyone else?!?


  117. Gregory – AKMuckraker has info on the earthquake today. Including stats & charts. . .


  118. Greytdog and all

    Reagan and the Berlin Wall

    There is no proof whatsoever that Reagan, aside of a rather stupid remark, had ANYTHING to do to with bringing down the Berlin Wall.

    This was between the USSR, East German and West Germany / EU ALONE!

    We neither asked nor received any help whatsoever from the US!

    (And don’t hold the fact that we still give you guyz free military bases 60 years after WWII as “without our military precense” BS against what I said above)

    The US was in no way involved in the POLITICAL process.

    Nothing personal against any of the posters here, but this all embracing “we saved the world alone” attitude is a big part of what people worldwide resent about the US and their Citzens.


  119. Werner, you are at least partly right. Some people have said Muslims need a Reformation movement as the Jews and Christians had.

    Last month or before, we discussed doing something to make a difference and at your urging, we agreed on June 20 as the date. On that day we had a family reunion and memorial service for my cousin. I feel like a piker. We didn’t get much done.

    However, my wife and I collected and delivered two loads of things for the Good Will, I wrote two letters to the editor, and the newspaper printed one, and last week, we contributed to a Filippino charity( It was cheating a little. One of my e friends works for the charity). We were going to write to our congressman but it will have to wait until this week.

    Did anyone else have time to do something?


  120. Friends in Alaska….just heard about the earth quakes…..all okay?????


  121. ImaginistaA, and lori, thanks for posting James Hershberg’s article. His view is roughly like mine, that “It was a group effort.”

    Radiation, rock and roll played a role too, I’m sure. As I wrote, people were exchanging video tapes the way Iranians now twitter. However, I also think an important factor was the relationship that Reagan and Gorbachev based on mutual respect. I think the confluence of those two strong personalities, the Pope and others ended the Soviet Union when it did.

    I think Reagan’s early aggressive attitude, later conciliation, and Gorbachev’s unwillingness to subject the world to a nuclear war saved millions or billions of lives.

    To say Reagan had little to do with the Soviets’ defeat is as inaccurate to say as he deserves most of the credit. It was a group effort.

    lori, yes China has made progress during the past twenty years. They negotiatiated an informal contract with their citizens. If they relinquish aspirations of freedom, the government will give them the chance to become rich.

    One of our son’s former college classmates traveled to China three times to help establish illegal protestant churches. China’s living standards run an extreme range, and riots are frequent in poorer rural areas.

    I agree it will happen some day. I feel bad for the folks alive now who will never live to see it. Have you ever been in a situation like the Iranians’ ? I was an observer within London and Rome anti -war protests during the Vietnam era. It wasn’t pleasant when the police established order. The Iranians are living through much worse conditions, of course.

    Thanks for the encouragement. I haven’t given up hope yet, in spite of my wavering.


  122. A thought on the situation in Iran:

    Maybe it is more adquat to compare the religous motivated power structures to the Inquisition and (in the late middle ages) educated Jesuites/Domenicans (Cane dominis), than to compare it with Democratic struggles.

    Maybe with a much more strict separation of religion and politics democracy would go it’s own way in Iran?

    Maybe if we advocate the SEPARATION of Religion and Politcs, without messing POLITICALLY in the Iran, we might gain the trust from the people and start some real change….

    Just my 2 cents worth…..


  123. ps: China has made progress in 20 years too….. hell they are even trying to clean up the air we breath! Something some conservative American’s haven’t committed too.


  124. Trouble
    Hi, Ladies. Come to Charlevoix, Michigan. It’s beautiful, safe, did I say beautiful? I’ll treat you to breakfast at the Alcove Cafe…..

    well how about the “real” thing:

    Charlevoix in Quebec, on the banks of the St. Laurent River, really beautifull, only one hotel worth mentioning, but what a table! (kitchen?)

    ……and then there’s the one in France too, but they speak even less English….. 😉


  125. James comments: The Chinese have put toothpaste into the tube, and there it remains after twenty years. 1950’s Hungary and revolutions in Iraq after the Gulf War are other examples martyred revolutionaries. Outside forces later gave them the chance to become freer, but it took a long time. I haven’t given up on the Iranian protesters in spite of my bad feeling.

    James, I am speaking in terms of decades not days… Iran has existed for 2000 or so years it will be here for a long time to I am sure a scholarly man as yourself knows….It may not happen today or tomorrow or even 20 years from now, but it WILL happen, it is called progress…. progressive….. 😉 Have faith… namaste’


  126. For my third installment for the day… wonder where Margaret and Helen are? D’ya think they read all of our little detours and side trips that happen off of the original post? It’s always fun to hang out with y’all, but after a bit I think we all get a little antsy for some new direction from the ladies! I do get it though, they do this blogging stuff when and if they want… very cool, I respect that. Just wanted to send a little love note to let them know they’re missed!


  127. And here is another link that I found interesting on the subject:

    James Hershberg: Reagan Should Not be Given Credit for Defeating the Soviet Union–It’s More Complicated than that

    James Hershberg, associate professor of history and international affairs at George Washington University, in the Wash Post (June 27, 2004):

    >… Ronald Reagan’s policies surely contributed to the dissolution of the Kremlin’s empire, culminating in the 1989 anti-communist revolutions in Eastern Europe and the breakup of the Soviet Union two years later. But for the media and Reagan’s hagiographers to give the 40th president all the credit is like saying a late-inning relief pitcher had “won” a baseball game without mentioning the starting pitcher, the closer or the teammates who scored the runs that gave the team its lead.

    Historians abhor the idea of attributing a vast, complex phenomenon to a single cause. No one person brought down the Soviet Union, but if I had to choose the one who mattered most, that person would not be Reagan, most of whose policies fit comfortably in the Cold War tradition of containment followed dutifully by presidents from Truman to Carter.

    Rather, the historical wild card was Mikhail Gorbachev, who followed a well-worn path up the ladder of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union — and then turned out to be a radical reformer. Influenced by Nikita Khrushchev’s short-lived “thaw” in the 1950s, Gorbachev grasped long before Reagan’s election that the stultifying Soviet system required renovation. Gorbachev also committed the heresy of abandoning the aim of world revolution and the class struggle in international affairs in favor of amorphous, but much nicer, “universal human values.” Above all, he refused to use the massive armed forces at his disposal to retain his party’s grip on captive nations in Eastern Europe, restive nationalist republics or Russia itself — something his predecessors Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko might have readily done had they not conked out first. <


  128. Harvey Wasserman maintains that “Rock and Radiation” spelled the end for the Soviet Union:

    >The GOP military’s 1980s attempt to “spend the Soviets into oblivion” certainly feathered the nests of the defense contractors who contributed to Reagan’s campaigns here, and who still fatten George W. Bush. Lockheed-Martin, Halliburton and an unholy host of GOP insiders have scored billions in profits from Iran-Contra to Star Wars to Desert Storm to Iraq.

    But these were not the people who brought down the Kremlin. If anything, they prolonged Soviet rule with the unifying threat of apocalyptic attack.

    No, it was rock & roll that wrecked the USSR. From the late 1960s on, the steady beat of the Beatles and Motown, Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix, shattered Stalinism at its stodgy core.

    Precisely the things most hated by the Reagan’s rightist culture warriors here eroded and helped dissolve the old-time Soviet culture there. Beamed in by radio, smuggled in on records and tapes, the “youth music” was unstoppable. The final blow came not from Ronald Reagan’s beloved nuclear weapons, but from the Soviets’ own Three Mile Island.

    After Chernobyl Unit Four exploded on April 26, 1986, Swedish radiation monitors detected huge clouds of radiation pouring out of the Ukraine. Gorbachev lied about it. Critical days passed before his “open” regime acknowledged the catastrophe.

    As apocalyptic radiation poured over their land and into their bodies, millions of Soviet citizens were infuriated to learn from sources outside their country how horrific the disaster really was—and that their lives were in genuine danger. Cancer, birth defects, stillbirths and more soared out of control. Gorbachev’s credibility was forever shattered. <

    The rest is here:


  129. “It was a group effort in my opinion.”

    It usually is.


  130. lori, I hope you are right. I have seen too many “peoples’ revolts” to have much confidence the Iranian protesters will win. The Chinese have put toothpaste into the tube, and there it remains after twenty years. 1950’s Hungary and revolutions in Iraq after the Gulf War are other examples martyred revolutionaries. Outside forces later gave them the chance to become freer, but it took a long time. I haven’t given up on the Iranian protesters in spite of my bad feeling.

    One good sign is there may now be a split among the clerics. As Mark Steyn said the world should do little more than to maintain social pressure against the Iranian government. They may still unravel from within.

    Reagan spoke of his “sick bear” theory of the Soviet Union as early as 1982. He believed that while its economy was ill, it had one of the strongest military forces in the world. Therefore direct confrontation was dangerous.

    Carter had begun rebuilding our military and Reagan continued at an accelerated pace. His Reagan Doctrine which described our determination to counter Soviet insurgency across the world devoured Soviet resources.

    According to National Review on line and on Free Republic, Andrei Gromyko charged that “behind all this lies the clear calculation that the USSR will exhaust its material resources and therefore will be forced to surrender. ” The old guard feared Reagon might succeed, and they chose Gorbachev, a reformer, to reverse Soviet defeats in places like Afghanastan, and to fix the empire’s economic problems.

    Gorbachev tried to eradicate many of the Soviet Unions’ most pernicious traits to preserve, not end communism. He also presented a more human face to the world. Reagan negotiated from a position of strength and his ‘simplistic” opinion that the Soviet Union could be defeated.

    According to one observer, no one had spoken to Gorbachev as Reagan did. Reagan encouraged Soviet reforms during his second term, as he and Gorbachev developed a personal relationship. In the end, Gorbachev was more surprised by the outcome than anyone. As Zbigniew Brzenzkinski observed, Gorbachev was the “Grand Miscalculator”.

    Czech president Vaclav Havel said Reagan’s strategy and diplomacy were important factors in ending the Cold War. He stated “Both Reagan and Gorbachev deserve credit” because while Soviet Communism might have imploded eventually, without them ” it would have taken a lot longer.”

    I agree. The right and left have given Reagan too little or too much credit in bringing down the Soviet Union. It was a group effort in my opinion.


  131. Young people, and some not so young people, across this country are ‘wearing green’ in support of the Iranian “green revolution”, one gentleman I personally know has avowed to only wear green until the Iranian people are free (in this high humidity in FL he’ll be completely green by the end of the day). . . while I prefer to do something useful by trying to maintain proxy communication portals and rerouting for more bandwidth – since I obviously can’t be there – from my little home. . . I find it almost amusing but highly interesting to watch the twitter observers – rebels by proxy is what I’ve started terming them. . . I think their sentiments are heartfelt, but still. . . Alternet raises the question:
    What About the People of Iraq and Afghanistan?
    Just something to chew on. . .


  132. RR was a Hollywood PROP!
    Or maybe he was the MASTERMIND!

    😉 ~ Δ


  133. Andrew Sullivan, from The Atlantic/The Daily Dish, wrote an excellent article for the Times Online, describing his experiences with new technology and the Iran revolution.

    “IT was not, to put it mildly, a new technology I found impressive. Twitter, the social networking website, allows for only a tiny number of characters to be broadcast in each “tweet”, or message, and much of the early tweeting was being done by bored teens or Hollywood celebrities: the illiterate speaking to the impatient.

    When Ashton Kutcher, the film star and avid tweeter, opined the following in April, I couldn’t stop laughing: “Years from now, when historians reflect on the time we are currently living in, the names Biz Stone and Evan Williams will be referenced side by side with the likes of Samuel Morse, Alexander Graham Bell, Guglielmo Marconi, Philo Farnsworth, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs – because the creation of Twitter . . . is as significant and paradigm-shifting as the invention of Morse code, the telephone, radio, television or the personal computer.”

    Well, the last laugh is on me. As I have spent the past week hunched over a laptop, channelling and broadcasting as much information, video and debate about the momentous events in Iran, nothing quite captured the mood and pace of events like the tweets coming from the people of Iran.”

    Enjoy your front seat to history!

    PEACE ~ Δ


  134. Actually Gorby deserves more credit for bringing down the Berlin Wall & the USSR than Reagan does. IMO.


  135. Jean et al, here’s a very good explanation of “the people”:
    “While Karroubi went for the liberal option of differentiating people into identity groups with different demands (women, students, intellectuals, ethnicities, religious minorities, etc), Musavi emphasized the universal demands of ‘people’ who wanted to be heard and counted as political subjects. This subjectivity, emphasized by Musavi during his campaign and fully incarnated in the rallies of the past few days, is constituted by political intuition, creativity and recollection of the ‘79 revolution (no wonder that people so quickly reached an unexpected maturity, best manifested in the abstention from violence in their silent demonstrations). Musavi’s ‘people’ is also easily, but strongly, distinguished from Ahmadinejad’s anonymous masses dependent on state charity. Musavi’s people, as the collective appearing in the rallies, is made of religious women covered in chador walking hand in hand with westernized young women who are usually prosecuted for their appearance; veterans of war in wheelchairs next to young boys for whom the Iran-Iraq war is only an anecdote; and working class who have sacrificed their daily salary to participate in the rally next to the middle classes. This story is not limited to Tehran. Shiraz (two confirmed dead), Isfahan (one confirmed dead), Tabriz, Oroomiye are also part of this movement and other cities are joining with a predictable delay (as it was the case in 79 revolution).”
    URL: http:///
    Why are Iranians dreaming again? posted 06/19/09


  136. James i am sure the powers to be are trying and to a large extent succeeding in quelling the uprising in Iran, and yes it may end badly THIS time. But you can’t put toothpaste back in the tube.. It won’t be long…

    RR was in the right place at the right time. Please do not suggest HE was bright enough to contrive ANY forgien policy. What HE was brilliant at was surrounding himself with people who were bright enough to see and manipulate the world the way they envisioned it. He was a schooled actor that crafted and perfected his trade at the expense of his countrymen.


  137. Telecommunications companies referred to by James in his post: Siemens and Nokia
    (and I love my Nokia phone – some folks have told me I should get another brand to “show my support” for the Iranian people . . .)

    I think the comparison James quotes is sensible. We’d like to think this is about democracy (and perhaps the underpinnings may be) but right now it’s a power struggle among the clerics in Iran – and religious power struggles are always bloody.


  138. I still have hope they can win, but I remember the tank man.

    This drama reminds me of an old Association song while we watch people risking their lives and freedom as if they were part of a realty show.

    “…your flag is flying full at half mast for the matadors who turned their backs to please the crowd
    And all fell before the bull.
    Black and white were the figures
    that recorded him.
    Black and white was the question
    that so bothered him.”


  139. Jo Atlanta, I agree with you, but without outside moral and physical support, I am afraid the Iranian protest will end badly.

    A site called Nice Deb quotes a writer saying the Iranian government has developed with the assistance of European telecommunications companies “one of the world’s most sophisticated mechanisms for controlling and censoring the Internet, allowing it to examine the content for individual online communications on a massive scale.”

    Many bloggers and journalists have been arrested. Another writer compared the power struggle in Iran to a contest between Hitler and Stalin.


  140. Jean, I think it all depends on how “the PEOPLE” is defined. I think we need to understand that the term as used by Americans, as in We the People, is not delineated the same way in other parts of the world. My guess, and it is only a guess that has been extrapolated from history and political philosophy, is that those in power in N Korea do know what is going on in Iran. BUT, as in China, the government controls access to outside information. We are dealing with very insular countries and even though there are folks in China with the ability and capability to glean information from ‘net, we aren’t that sure about that possibility in N Korea. Perhaps in the urban centers, but probably not so much as in rural areas. Communication is xtremely controlled by the State and anyone going outside those controls faces the wrath of the government. My understanding is that the folks who defect to S Korea are for the most part educated with skills marketable in the global community, and more likely to have relatives in S Korea who have managed to keep them informed of the happenings in the world.


  141. The Soviet Union collapsed because its socialism could not compete with our brand of capitalism.
    It would have lasted awhile longer, but Reagan was the final straw. Our side captitalized on internal unrest as Lech Lewinska stood up to the government. The Pope also gave a grass roots movement hope and moral support.

    Twitter helps the protesters keep in touch. In the eighties video tapes passed from one to another served the same purpose.

    The “evil empire” and “Mr.Govbachov tear down this wall” galvanized public opinion because of their personification of “evil” face. Moreover, the Soviets knew they could not compete with Regan’s spending binge. Gorbachav was not like his thuggish predecessors. He wanted to use an accomodation with the West to preserve communism, and he failed. The Soviet’s defeat was the culmination of work from Harry Truman on down. Reagan deserves credit for playing a major role, and I believe future historians will continue to recognize him.


  142. I think it would be very cool if the Iranian people would overthrow the current power structure, rename themselves Persia, and recapture their grand past. I wonder if they would agree. When I read of a cuture that spanned a thousand years and more, I am ashamed of our American arrogance. Powerful? Yes, we have been powerful for a short time. But will we be able to make that claim after a thousand years?

    Thanks for the mini-history lesson, Jean.


  143. Hi gang,

    We watch the horrific events unfold in Iran, hour by hour. My heart aches for beautiful young Neda, shot dead on the street.

    Several thoughts have occurred to me. Since time immemorial, whenever a revolt happens, it is usually because of the injustices and brutal tyranny from WITHIN. Despite what the Republicans like to tout, it was not our Six-Shooter-Toting Reagan and his “Mr. Gorbachov, tear down this wall” tough guy speech that brought down the Soviet Union. It was in the process of collapse from within.

    About the only time there is a bloodless coup is when tyrants have all the guns and weapons. Tragically, all other revolts and revolutions always involve innocent blood running through the streets. Despite the media blackout, thanks to the inter-net, news is getting out of Iran – worldwide! I doubt if there are very many places in the world where SOMEONE doesn’t have a cell phone or a computer. And there is always word of mouth; sometimes with sensational gossip but often with a grain of truth.

    This makes me wonder about North Korea. I can’t say I know very much about that country except for fairly recent history and reports. The North Korean PEOPLE must be hearing about what’s going on in Iran. Their regime is apparently even more repressive, if possible, than Iran’s.

    If they are tired of starving so a nasty little pip-squeak can feed his ego with his idea of being the ‘King of the Mountain’ World Power Wannabe, maybe, just maybe, they too will decide they have had enough. Who knows?




  144. Happy Father’s Day to all the fathers here @ M&H.


  145. Hi, Ladies. Come to Charlevoix, Michigan. It’s beautiful, safe, did I say beautiful? I’ll treat you to breakfast at the Alcove Cafe.


  146. Margaret & Helen moving in on TWO MILLION hits!!!!! Wow!!!! 🙂

    You ladies rock!!!!


  147. New York Times updates on their blog:


  148. An Iranian woman had sent these messages across the blogosphere. After watching the heart-wrenching video of the death of the young Iranian woman, one can hardly be unmoved by these words.

    From the HuffPost yesterdy.

    “I will participate in the demonstrations tomorrow. Maybe they will turn violent. Maybe I will be one of the people who is going to get killed…”

    Tonight, she posted a second letter, passed along and translated by two readers. She writes about her “sister” in this cause who was killed today, referring to Neda.

    Yesterday I wrote a note, with the subject line “tomorrow is a great day perhaps tomorrow I’ll be killed.” I’m here to let you know I’m alive but my sister was killed…

    I’m here to tell you my sister died while in her father’s hands
    I’m here to tell you my sister had big dreams…
    I’m here to tell you my sister who died was a decent person… and like me yearned for a day when her hair would be swept by the wind… and like me read “Forough” [Forough Farrokhzad]… and longed to live free and equal… and she longed to hold her head up and announce, “I’m Iranian”… and she longed to one day fall in love to a man with a shaggy hair… and she longed for a daughter to braid her hair and sing lullaby by her crib…

    my sister died from not having life… my sister died as injustice has no end… my sister died since she loved life too much… and my sister died since she lovingly cared for people…

    my loving sister, I wish you had closed your eyes when your time had come… the very end of your last glance burns my soul….

    sister have a short sleep. your last dream be sweet.”


  149. Honolulu Sally, “reunions” are a good idea. I don’t visit the Janeane Garafalo site any more, but several of the regulars and I still keep in touch. We have met each other face to face several times and visited on the phone.

    Thanks to one of those e friends I guessed the weather for a farmers’ almanac for three years. He didn’t pay me, but it was something for the neighbors to talk about. Yesterday, we held a memorial service for my cousin who died after 36 years as a quadraplegic.

    She, with the help of nurses raised two daughters and traveled across the country. She sometimes gave motivational speeches and celebrated the anniversary of her accident as her “new” birthday which coincidentally was on my birthday.

    My cousin had wanted to write a book and dictated pages to her daughters. They have decided her inspiring story is grist for a movie. One of my e friends has made a couple of short movies, and he wants to continue. He is a good writer too. I am getting them together via e mail to see what happens. He lives in New York City. They live in Tucson. A movie is a long shot; a book is more likely, and my e friend can help make it happen if he decides to help.

    Our son and daughter in law sent me a big box of
    Father’s Day presents. He left a message while we were at the Memorial service and said “pick up the phone or I won’t tell you where the antidote is!” The best thing we ever did was have children.


  150. Thanks for the link, Susan in Ct. I can’t try it this evening because over sixty of our relatives are here for my cousin’s memorial service, and a reunion.

    We can’t get u tube, but I sometimes was able to listen to the early days of Air America. I want to hear your show, and I plan to try.


  151. Hilzoy over at Obsidian Wings has a wonderful, haunting post about Neda, the young girl who died in Iran yesterday : In A Moment of Neglect I Might Fly.
    Here’s a miniscule part:

    ” my sister died as injustice has no end . . .”

    “I am that candle which illumines a ruins
    with the burning of her heart.
    If I want to choose silent darkness,
    I will bring a nest to ruin.”


  152. jsri – we have been welcomed here by some very fine people. M&H must giggle and chortle at our contortions – we give them company in their barely aged lives and they are probably pleased that we all get pains settling in, and thinking about the world, just like they have. I’m just guessing here.


  153. Jean, Mahalo for the welcome back! I loved the trip – didn’t expect to but it was so different and beautiful on that side of the US.

    Duck Boat tour leader said the reason there are no pirates in Boston is because there are no “r”s, and thus they wouldn’t be able to say AAAARRRGH. Yup, corny jokes.

    Son will be in San Francisco for 2 months working, then off to Germany in August for a year. He’s my rolling stone, lives very minimally, and very easy going.

    Loved your painting! That is the next art form that I want to take up, but not yet. Too much on my plate right now, many new beginnings and much responsibilities to finish up first.

    Prayers for the Iran people.


  154. Snowing in Alaska – I’ll be glad to have you at my back anytime!

    jsri, a gracious apology, but unnecessary. Glad you found a “home”. Your comment did stir up a lot of interesting inputs, more glimpses into the person(s) behind the names.

    I really think we need to have a reunion of sorts, or some kind of pin (like a StarTrek badge) that identifies other M&H fans. During my trip to NH, I kept thinking of the coffee house that Margaret (?) and her friends meet up at to discuss M&H.


  155. Hi Sally,

    Welcome home safe and sound!!!!! We missed you!!!!! But glad you had a wonderful trip.

    We have done the Duck Boat trip with all our grandkids, duck lips and all. Whan an ‘educational?’ hoot, huh?

    As for shopping, why are ALL men so adverse to it? We only want to brouse and look, right? Well, maybe a trinket or two or enough to fill up a few more suitcases, but what’s the harm?

    We lived in suburban Boston for three years in the mid-50’s (Burlington) and again for two years in the early 50’s (Framingham Center.)

    “R’s?” What “R’s”? There are “R’s” in the alphabet? Not many in New England!

    The shit hit the fan while you were gone so you better stay here. First Iran and then North Korea. You take care of Oahu and we will for Kauai regarding incoming North Korean missiles, OK?

    Seriously, the Iranian situation is heartbreaking. Lots of kudos go out to Greytdog for monitoring the internet around the clock and keeping us informed. Such a helpless feeling. We can only hope that the horrors stop soon but we all know that the regime is so firmly entrenched, that it’s not going to be easy.


    Auntie Jean

    P.S. Is your son with you or is he on his way to Germany?


  156. Hi all you guys,

    Happy Father’s Day!!!!! Any man lucky enough to have the honor of being a father already knows what an privilege it is. I applaud you for the love, pride and yes, occasional tears you have invested in your children. I salute you, today and everyday.

    This is also for the memory of my own father. He broke the father mold.




  157. Hi Greytdog and PalinShutUp,

    Greytdog, yours of 6/20, 2:53P. Eloquent!!!!!

    PalinShutUp, yours of 6/20,3:20P. Also eloquent!!!

    Brava to both of you.




  158. Snowing in Alaska:

    Earlier this week I was really ticked off. We don’t get away very often these days and had planned to drive to Canada but our passports didn’t arrive in time and my GPS maps were somewhere enroute so our trip was canceled and I lost money on some tours I had arranged.

    When I opened H&M and found a string of one liners wasting a lot of bandwidth I wanted to make a comment about them but got a bit carried away and succeeded in alienating many of the regulars who quickly handed me my hat. The ones I meant it for never seemed to notice.

    I’ve been a reader of H&M for a while now but this past week or so has been the first time I started to comment. Actually. most political blogs are populated by trolls from both sides who fill up the space with hateful insults that have nothing to do with anything. Here most posters have a high regard for others, something that is missing in most of the political blogs and the comments are at a much higher level.

    In the future I’ll try to give my comments more thought and be more circumspect before I hit the send button.


  159. Is this where we start singing around the campfire, or clapping loudly for Margaret & Helen to return? I pretend to be patient, but I’m not really! Love those gals! They have hundreds, thousands of adopted grandchildren by now.

    I just want to say – scroll on by if this bores you – but I’ve been thinking over the last months and the regular occurrence of a poster jumping in who gets snarky about the blog being “taken over” by others, regulars, whoever. I’ve been here since almost day one, and I always jump in when that happens (usually the ONLY time I jump in – unless I’m working on opening the eyes of those blind to the derangement of Palin).

    For one thing, interesting posts, thoughts and links abound in the interim between the M&H wisdom and humor. We can scroll by, join in, read or just throw up our hands in impatience! However, it’s the presence of all of these folks who love M&H who are also the Anti-Troll brigade – and they are DARN good at it! I’m not talking Anti-Republican or Anti-Conservative – anyone can join in and certainly has the right to do so since we’ve been give so much latitude by M&H on their blog.

    The trolls are creeps – fearful, mean, nasty haters who are used to inciting fear and anxiety all around the Internet. We see them everywhere, and they’ve had their way prior to this election because many of us didn’t know they existed until we got involved ourselves. They take over, they depress, they bully and spread their creepiness to all corners of the earth – dripping putrid slime along behind them.

    Not here! Trolls aren’t welcome, and they aren’t bright enough to defend themselves against folks who aren’t afraid. We laugh at them, bash them, question them, even try to engage them in real conversation, but that’s not why there are here so they freak and leave. Sorry – basically I’m a good-hearted person but I also defend the underdog (if they are worthy) to the death!

    They deserve no less – they have nothing to offer but hate. They don’t have opinions – only lies and brainwashed, stupid thoughts. We give them no quarter – ever – and they are retreating. Other commenters on media sites and blogs are beginning to pick up the same tactics – screw the “ignore the trolls” in some instances and kick their asses instead!

    I had the wonderful pleasure of kicking a sicko right where it hurt the most recently on a news article about a murder of someone I knew. You could feel the confusion, frustration and mounting anger that they were not getting their usual way of taking over with sick, disgusting and inhuman postings. Boot! Kick! Banish! I made such a big deal of it (sorry to the others who had to put up with the battle but that’s the way it goes sometimes) that it will be a long time, if ever, before those creeps ever show up again.

    I rarely post a long comment – hope the scroll fingers are in good shape – but to me, there is a huge value in backing these slugs down under the rocks where they came from. I am no longer tolerant of them and do not wish them well, at all. Thank you to all of the great Troll smiters here and may you all live forever! Carry on!


  160. JibJab – Barack Obama to the Rescue


  161. Abortion seen through the
    eyes of the rightwingoverse.



  162. PalinShutUp, one of my most treasured items from college – a term paper I was working on (typewriter not computer) for poli-philosophy class. Has handwritten note from Harry Chapin “good analysis. Just remember it’s about people not just ideology”. He was both hero & friend.


  163. greytdog, beautiful post about Kenny Rankin, thank you for sharing

    I too worked some years
    in events planning, coordination and finance it is one of the best jobs I ever had but never had the pleasure of meeting him


  164. I think Obama is doing an excellent job, that is Iran’s revolution not ours, now if the nations of the world get together to help the revolution by supplying what ever they need, that’s a different story but we dont need to take charge of another war.

    Take a good look at Iran, take a real close look at what is going on, dont turn your heads away from the bloody painful images these people are giving up their lives for the freedom of their brothers and sisters

    THIS is EXACTLY what happens when religion is mixed with politics

    dont ever forget it

    this (with some edits leaving out personal info and such) from my friend who speaks what I feel

    she was asked

    “So, you support Mousavi? You realize he was part of the original theocratic revolution?”

    I told him I support the Iranian people who do not want Ahmadinejad. I support all those who know their votes were
    stolen. If I had a flat rooftop, I would climb up and chant “Allah Akbar.”


  165. jsri – I agree – Obama is walking a tightrope – and IMO has so far managed to maintain the balance needed between support for the protests and the understanding that this is an internal Iranian affair. yes, we all would like Iran to be democratic – but if we believe that American-style democracy will occur overnight or at all in Iran, then we are fools. This is not even really about democracy, it’s a power struggle among the clerics, the old revolutionary vanguard leaders, and the new generations. The Basij are not mere vigilantes like the Minutemen here in the US, they are backed by Khamanei who heads the Imperial Council. The Imperial Guard is controlled by A.N. but is loyal to Imperial Council. It’s a tangled web of theocracy, tribalism, Islamic history & tradition. Any attempt to reduce it to simple formulaic platitudes as expressed by American pundits simple shows a lack of understanding about the world. My opinion. I posted the video for one reason – thugs of all stripes wield their power through fear – the world must and needs to bear witness. Will our witness stop this violence? No. But when such violence once again rears up either in Iran or another part of the world, it is my hope that we who bear witness will remember and speak out against tyranny in all its forms.


  166. Greytdog:

    And she was just an innocent bystander.

    God. I hope this ends soon. The country is totally out of control.

    This is a clear example of what an uncontrolled vigilante force will end up doing. We should be looking over our own shoulders.

    President Obama is walking a tightrope on this one. I just wish he could be a little more emphatic about the need to control the violence.


  167. Warning: Graphic video from Iran. Today.


  168. I was lucky enough to meet Kenny Rankin when I was a college student working the concerts that came to campus. A buddy and I were assigned to assist the artists who came to campus. Kenny was always sweet, always thoughtful of others, never demanding, often did master classes for the music students. About 10 years ago, Kenny came to O-town and we “caught up”. At the end of his show, he came over to our table, asked me to dance, and sang “You’d Be So Nice to Come Home to”. When I heard about his cancer, I contacted him via email. . .we corresponded for a while but when I heard he’d died, I was shocked. he was a good kind person and my heart is broken.


  169. so sad to read Kenny Rankin passed

    a writer/photographer boyfriend treated me to a pass to see Kenny up close in Central Park in the 70s, I forgot all about the boyfriend and fell in love with Kenny’s beautiful voice and songs.

    Rest in Peace, thank you for one of the most beautiful summer days of my life.


  170. For frequent updates from and about Iran, go to Andrew Sullivan’s blog The Daily Dish

    James, I think you said you have dial-up? Which would make it hard to stream the station — but the show is on Sundays at 7pm eastern time at


  171. That was my post. I forgot to register.


  172. Jean:
    Many years ago we were close to a couple young women grad students from Iran. Of course, they always referred to themselves as Persians. They were very very bright and classically beautiful. Lost contact after they returned home but it pains me to think that they are probably living a controlled and muzzled life while forced to dress like a laundry sack.

    About fifteen years ago we were in Honolulu and my wife became fascinated by Hawaiian quilts. It took her years get confident enough to start one but after cutting out that monumental center had to abandon it about halfway when she had her initial bout with her Lymphoma.

    Earlier she had made a magnificent Baltimore album quilt for our son and daughter in law for their tenth anniversary. Took her three and a half years to finish it, all handwork, and had an estimated 350,000 hand stitches. The first time our DIL displayed it on their bed, their ancient cat barfed in the middle of it. So much for a magical moment. But that’s okay, we’ve been cat people since we were married.

    Honolulu Sally:
    Glad you enjoyed NH. Lived there for 7 years and indeed it is a pretty state. But good grief, a Red Sox Game? I thought only rabid fans were allowed to go there. I was once a fan but hardly know who plays there anymore. Tickets cost a small fortune which has a way of killing interest. I get my fill now at a lower level. Our youngest grandson (15) plays HS ball and on a summer league team. He is 6′ 4″ and still growing, has a wicked fastball and a sneaky curve. Our son is also a little league coach and indeed, coaching little league is like herding cats. But he loves it. The parents however are another story.

    We too missed Montreal last week. Our expedited passports arrived the day after we were ready to go. And the maps for my GPS arrived yesterday. Sometimes all that counts in life is the timing.


  173. Susan in Ct, thanks for the link. I will read it more closely as my time and eyes permit. It was sad to read Kenny Rankin author of “Peaceful” died.

    I wish your station was closer to us. I would be listening.

    Have you ever heard of Vernon Dalhart? He was more country but he was one of the first national music stars of the early twentieth century. To me, his was an interesting story.

    I think Obama is right to say little now, and it is possible we are doing behind the scenes operations or negotiations. The United States has agents in Iran.

    According to Jihadwatch, woman are playing an important role in the protest. As one woman said, “I want the world to know that as a woman in this country, I have no freedom.” More of them are marching “against the harsh inhumanity of Saria Laws.”

    People react similarly to similar situations, as we know. If the government doesn’t act forcefully to suppress the protests the mullahs will lose credibility. If they order the police to attack and they refuse, the mullahs will be finished. So far they have most of the guns, but if critical mass takes balance of support to the protesters’ side the government’s monopoly of guns will end.

    The government has few options. They will likely attempt to crush the protest as the Chinese did their freedom movement. I believe a final confrontation is coming.


  174. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 6/19/09



  175. Hi Gang!

    Boy! Take a week long trip and come back to so much news and postings! All good reading, nice to catch up. Got a bit snarky but decency prevails with good company.

    Found out about the missile aimed at Hawaii by the lunatic from North Korea. Heard it doesn’t have enough power to reach here. Hope it backfires and gets him where the sun don’t shine. That would be justice.

    The Iranians give me goose bumps. Such courage and strength of belief. Namaste.

    Trip to New Hampshire was AWESOME! I never saw so much beautiful green as the plane landed in Boston, then a bus ride to NH. Clean cool fresh air and spring water! People living in houses on 15 acre parcels. One of the best meals I have ever had in a restaurant without a sign out front in Strafford, Vermont. Called Stone Soup and because of you guys, I had a rhubarb pie for the first time in my life. Strawberry custard rhubarb pie with a crust so thick and flaky I think I was in heaven.

    No time to go to Montreal (boohoo) but spent a night and a whole day in Boston. Went to a Red Sox game – those fans are fanatics and we had a grand time singing Sweet Caroline with ooh ooh oohs and doing the wave and “Drewing” and “Youuukilis” that sounded like “booooooo”s.

    In the morning we went on a Duck Boat tour with my duck lips blower, a frustrating stroll through Newberry Street lined with boutiques yelling out to me to come in but a husband and son who are the world’s worst shoppers and take “window shopping” to a whole new level of just glance and walk on by. Had THE best clam chowder at the oldest restaurant – Union Oyster House.

    All in all a great trip. Very nice people who don’t use the letter “R” in their speech.

    But, like Dorothy said as she clicked her red heels, “There’s no place like home” even with a stupid Korean missile aimed here.


  176. Hi gang,

    Just a few more thoughts on Iran. I’m sure many if not most of the Iranian are well aware of their long history, just as we Americans know about ours. The only thing is, that our history is less than 400 years old. Theirs goes back well over 2500 hundred years!!!! The first THOUSAND of those years it was known as PERSIA. It was a proud Empire that encompassed a vast area of the Mediterranean, Middle East and into India. It survived Alexander the Great, and innumerable upheavals until it was finally defeated by the Islamic Arabs in 625AD.

    Persia was ruled by Kings but it was the priest caste of their Zoroastrian Religion that held the real power. The Avesta was their holy book, much the same as the Bible and the Koran are holy books. They codified the Avesta as the law, which was administered by the hereditary caste of Zoroastrian priests, the Magi. The Archimagus was the chief priest and his power was second only to that of the king. (Magus, singular; Magi, plural.)

    The Magi were the intellectual and aristocratic members of Persian society. In fact, they were so wealthy that from time to time the Persian Kings borrowed money from the coffers of the Magian organization. We all remember the Magi who, according to Christian scripture, visited Jesus in Bethlehem after his birth.

    The Arabs adopted many of the customs and administrative practices of the Persians except, of course, that their religion was Islamic. The Ayatollah ultimately became the powerful head of that religion just at the Archimagus had been with the Zoroastrian.

    Sooner or later Europe came to be ruled by kings too but the Pope was the power behind the throne. Then came the Reformation and the Protestants took over. The British Empire all over the world almost up until our time was Protestant. See the connection between the power of the State and Religion?

    By the way, Britain ruled India, Afghanistan and Pakistan during their Empire Days. They were able to control the Khyber Pass in that part of the world, but never were successful in subduing the tribes in those areas where Bin Laden has purportedly been hiding out all this time. Does anybody remember the books and movies of Rudyard Kipling and such?

    We sort of thought here in America we had gotten over all that with our secular Constitution and the separation of church and state. Of course, until Bush, Inc. decided to start building a big American Empire. Enter Fundamentalist Christians. Same story all over again, huh.

    This is a thumbnail sketch of the LENGTHY, LENGTHY Persian/Iranian history. If any of you are interested in learning more, you could check out my web site, Chapter 4 on “Persia”. It is a shorter summary than the VOLUMES I waded through when I was researching it.




  177. A Poem for Iran. . .


  178. ‘The world must not watch us – you must all join us wherever you are …’

    wear green tomorrow in honor of the Iranian people fighting fascism


  179. troll alert?


  180. How much kool-aid are you drinking here?


  181. “Fox caught with its pants down on ABC attacks”


  182. Hi gang, Whirled Peas, poolman, jsri and Greytdog,

    I was starting to wonder where you were, Whirled Peas. Glad you’re back. That cartoon says it all!

    Thanks poolman. We will keep our heads down out here in July.

    jsri, our friend that lived for 19 years had non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. A whole different disease from your wife’s. I misunderstood her problem. She sounds like a lovely talented lady.

    Did you know that Helen is a quilter too? That’s the reason behind the little quilt squares beside our names and comments. The Hawaiians have some exquisite quilts too with very different designs from those on the mainland.

    I have done lots of sewing, upholstery and needle work but never quilting. That takes infinite patience! But the results are exquisite works of art and heirlooms.

    Greytdog, thank you so much for all the Iranian updates. It amazes me that there could be instant Farsi-English translations. I think the advent of the internet and instant communication between PEOPLE is rapidly changing the world. Through the ‘underground’ press, the Iranian PEOPLE must be aware that most of the Americans and the world support their efforts at reforms. This is despite the supression of news by the regime. You can bet the Arab League as well as the rest of the world is watching developments carefully too.

    I hope not, but I am afraid this could blow up into a full fledged Civil War. The Iranian WOMEN seem to be very much involved which is a good thing considering the ominous backlash that can occur from such a male dominated culture.

    I also think Obama’s cautious approach is a good
    one. Anything he says will only be twisted by the ‘official’ Iranian pronouncements to their advantage and blame all the problems on the U.S. They are the only ones that would buy it, but that doesn’t matter to their Powers that Be.

    Further, the sheer amount of issues both domestic and international that Obama has piled up on his desk to the ceiling blow my mind!!!!! I’m sure glad he is in charge and not any Old Timer like me. First he needs the physical stamina of youth. And despite my vast experience and knowledge, he is a hell of a lot smarter than I am.




  183. It feels like the world is holding its breath. . .

    19 Jun 2009 08:34 pm
    Before The Battle
    “I will participate in the demonstrations tomorrow. Maybe they will turn violent. Maybe I will be one of the people who is going to get killed. I’m listening to all my favorite music. I even want to dance to a few songs. I always wanted to have very narrow eyebrows. Yes, maybe I will go to the salon before I go tomorrow! There are a few great movie scenes that I also have to see. I should drop by the library, too. It’s worth to read the poems of Forough and Shamloo again. All family pictures have to be reviewed, too. I have to call my friends as well to say goodbye. All I have are two bookshelves which I told my family who should receive them. I’m two units away from getting my bachelors degree but who cares about that. My mind is very chaotic. I wrote these random sentences for the next generation so they know we were not just emotional and under peer pressure. So they know that we did everything we could to create a better future for them. So they know that our ancestors surrendered to Arabs and Mongols but did not surrender to despotism. This note is dedicated to tomorrow’s children…” – an Iranian blogger, with more courage than most of us will ever know.



  184. I agree. Bill O’ Rielly sucks and Jennifer Anniston has a great ass. Was that what I was supposed to get? ~rick


  185. I haven’t read the other comments so i’m commenting directly on your post. Me too! Bill O’Reilly can kiss both our big fat asses!


  186. Note: Iranians reject
    American way of life!

    Because they care…;)



  187. She’s says it all so much better than I ever could:


  188. Hmm. . . just a minor injection here in re to French Help during the Revolution. The French weren’t helping us because they wanted democracy for the colonies – they just hated England. Same reason they helped finance the Scots revolt against England. Yes we are thankful of France’s help during our revolution; just don’t think it was all about liberty for the colonies. And the Congressional resolution has less to do with the events in Iran and more to do with the upcoming Congressional elections. Trust me, this will be used – “I voted to stand in solidarity with the Iranian people while Obama didn’t” will be one of the talking points. Of course now Khamanei and his theothugs have the very proof of American interference in the internal affairs of Iran. The new line: The elections were not rigged by Khamanei, but by the Americans in order to bring unrest against the duly elected government and to destroy Holy Islam. So you see, Khamanei and Congress really do think alike.


  189. James: I don’t often get back to the performers whose music got me hooked into the folk genre (Kingston Trio, PP&M, Bud & Travis, etc.), even though they paved the way in my own consciousness for Seeger, Guthrie, Weavers, et al. That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate their making it possible for many of us to find “the real thing” — it’s just that there are so MANY fine writers who do their own songs now, “so many songs, so little time.”

    My playlists are here:


  190. You are being featured on Five Star Friday!


  191. It is painful to watch it play out in Iran. On one hand, I say we have no business meddling in their affairs. On the other hand, where would we be if the French had not helped us out in out revolution so long ago.


  192. Susan in Ct. Mary Chapin Carpenter is one of my favorite singers. If you have time, could you tell me how far back your folk-music play list goes? Do you include old groups like the Kingston Trio or New Christy Minstrals. Granted, they were commercialized folk music, but they were popular.

    PalinShutUp, my occasional certitude is a fault, I agree. An ISU climatologist used to have a weather talk show on Iowa Public Radio. I called the show and told him all of Iowa might have a good year as he predicted, but he was wrong about our county. I told him with as much certitude as I have used here, that we were going to have a serious drought. We had two years of drought so bad some dry land corn fields were total losses. At least I was smart enough not to say “I told you so.”

    I like most of Obama’s foreign policy, so far, but not his domestic plans. I think the Iroquois Indians had a peace chief and a war chief. Each condition requires different skills. I’d chose someone else to manage our economy. How would that work for us? I’m not serious, just imagining.

    Reagon’s “Morning in America” wasn’ t so great for we farmers either. The last of the Carter and first Regan administration were as close to a depression I hope to see. President Reagon did a lot of good, but you and I seem to have something in common regarding those years.

    I hope your children are proud of what you did and show their appreciation. I have a lot of respect for single parents who can hold their families together. For one thing, the children outnumber you, and the cavalry is slow to come.

    Key lime pies sound good. Maybe we could sample each others’ pies. My cherry pies are delicious, but I’m partial to the raspberry.

    I have enjoyed our banter too.

    JoAtlanta, at least some Iranians know we are concerned. A site printing Iranian messages referred to readers getting the word out to the West. You ask good questions. I do believe they think we care.

    I see a similarity with the Hungarian revolution against the Soviets about 1956. They staged a revolution more dynamic than the Iranian protest so far. The revolutionaries obtained tanks and other arms as they took and held territory. They communicated through captured radio stations, and they asked for our help.

    A public display of noisy condemnation of the election would be counterproductive, in my opinion. Working behind the scenes might salvage something before we have another Tienaman Square.


  193. Intervening in another country is dicey at best. Iraq is a good example and you can look at Viet Nam China – Tianamen Square, or Egypt or even Iran with the Shaw. Afghanistan: the US got Bin Laden started on the road to dumping the Russians.

    We have two wars going at present, Iran is loading with nukes as is North Korea.

    We want democracy for all but quite often, the people vote against what the US sees as our interests. The person we end up putting into power often turns out to be our enemy in time or the people take him down and put in someone who is anti US.

    If Bush taught us anything, it is that nation building is expensive and unpredictable. The idea of going in and the people loving us is not realistic.


  194. PalinShutUp: Your last line makes me wonder what the people in Iran would think if they knew people in the US were concerned about their freedoms. The Iranian government is making a serious effort to close their communication with the outside. Do they think we should intervene and feel angry that we do not? Do they think we do not care. What do they think of us that we do care deeply about their situation but do not act because of the very principles of democracy? Iran is not new to democracy, but neither have they ever had a solid democracy. I wonder if they understand how very hard it is to maintain a democray?


  195. ah james, sadist was the word I should have used, thanks, thanks for confirming my suspicion

    but i will have a piece of your lovely pie 🙂

    ive been baking key lime pies lately for various bbq’s, gatherings…we’ve had, my friends seem to like them a lot

    if i had the time to read each and every post there wouldnt be enough hours in the day which is also one of the reasons i am not the type to post my daily activities on any blog, including those geared to friends and family

    though we are going through difficult times and had our share of unfortunate incidents, health issues…. i dont feel comfortable posting about them either but agree that everything we experience is a catalyst for our thinking and actions

    for instance, i had a wonderful government job at one time that reagan took away, a single mother trying her hardest to be productive and do right by my little family and country…

    when people sing praises for his deeds i cant agree, perhaps his decision was better for the country in general but it took ME many years to recover from that blow, that’s a peek into my window and why i think the way i do

    i get the ‘taking press bias seriously’ i dont have a problem with ideas, ideals…i do have a problem when someone says, writes or tries to pass off gossip **as fact** and not provide back-up data to support the argument and scoffs, ridicules…others because ‘it comes from one camp or the other…’

    having been raised by (what i believe to have been) true conservatives, to a certain extent, gives me a bit of a prismatic view on many, not all, political slants, i do sympathize with many points of views except with closed minded individuals

    obama is not perfect but what i like about him is that he is the first to admit he isnt and he is TRYING hard to help us get out of the mess created by the previous administration, mccain just seemed to be too much of the same old same old, palin, well, i wont even go there

    all i remember is that while the economic mess was going down during bush’s term i was dialed in to many finance venues including c span, no one, not even the so called ‘experts’ knew how to deal with the mess

    no one stepped up with a better idea or solution but one thing they all said was ‘it is going to get worse before it gets better’

    somehow now they all forget that is EXACTLY what is happening

    well, i have a full day ahead, will try to come back later but ive enjoyed our little banter

    keeping the people in iran in my thoughts


  196. I am hoping that more rational thinking will prevail – Pence & Berman should listen to Kissinger if they won’t listen to any Democratic leader. . . but I suspect that the resolution is less about really standing with the Iranian people and more about “all about me – I’m for liberty, see?”. Yeah it’s cynical but these boneheads have no understanding about Iran, its culture, the religious tribalism, etc. I was reading Wolfowitz’s screed in WaPo – had to laugh. US supported the Marcos dictatorship for so long – tit for tat – only started to move against him when Marcos wanted ClarkeAFB and Subic NStn. Marcos was a corrupt SOB long before he bought the Philippine Presidency – but US also knew his weak spots and played them. We like our dictators until they want more. . . then we have to oust them. I don’t think the US wanted Aquino either – he would have been harder to control. Oh well. It’s the same old game played the same old way – wonder who we’ll undermine next?


  197. Greytdog: thank you for your keeping us up on the conditions in Iran. I have NO idea what you’re doing, technically, but am grateful that you and yours have offered us this window.

    James: anybody who quotes one of Carpenter’s excellent songs is okay in my book! I host a folk-music radio show, and always include that song in my New Year program.


  198. The USA is between a rock and a hard place regarding Iran. Without objective oversight of the election, we have no way of knowing the truth. Without proof of a bogus election, we may be wrong to support the protesters claiming the election was stolen. America promotes democracy and this was supposedly a free election.

    Turn back the clock to November and the worries of many regarding riots if Obama lost the election. Suppose the results had shown McCain as the winner? Which side would the world community believe? We are a bastion of democracy. Would we want foreign intervention?


  199. FreeGate down; portals being cut off. We have one standing right now and SO & cuz are working fast and furious to maintain. I can’t do it – not enough knowledge. Very frustrating & scary. No one knows what will happen next. Mousavi has called for another rally but Iranian govt won’t approve permit; Khamanei has given tacit approval to Imperial Guard & Basij to crackdown on protesters. Everyone believes this will end in bloodshed. The real question overall – will this mean yet another generation silenced? Any overt moves from West will simply support Khamanei contention that West is behind the protests and seeking to destabilize Iran. . . and Berman-Pence Resolution is being voted on in Congress 2day. Nothing like Congressional grandstanding to get a few hundred people killed – my sense -no one much cares since “they’re Muslims”.


  200. Our Omaha radio station said Walter Concrite at age 92 is near death.

    Congressmen Mike Pence (R-Ind), and Rep Howard Berman (D-Calif) have introduced a resolution supporting the Iranian dissidents.

    The protesters’ signs written in English show they want our help.

    Obama caused the protests? One could speculate that Bush’s leading us to our current victory in Iraq caused it too. I’m more likely to believe Jesse James died in Texas at the age of 104.


  201. Hi Gang
    here a link to Jeans pic on the think positive blog:

    If I post more later it might slip further back, just go on the bottom of the page and click “previous” until you see it.



  202. Quick update – Google has a Farsi translation machine which means we can now get a basic understanding of some of the tweets coming out of Iran. @ Friday prayers, Khamanei declared the elections to be fair and warned the protesters they would be punished severely. Basij and Imperial Guard now apparently working together. . .Basij usually does their work as shock troops, but now out openly and apparently relishing their “freedom” to deal with any and all protesters. Everyone is holding their breath to see what Mousavi and the folks in Iran will do. . . Khamanei @ prayers stated that protests were incited by Obama. . . Republicans claim that Obama caused protests – -hmmm… Imperial Council & Republicans separated at birth only to be reunited in hatred of Obama. . .


  203. jsri, and PalinshutUP, Congratulations on your anniversary jsri. I hope you have many more.
    Thanks for the story you wrote about June 12. I just read it.

    PalinShutUp, I have grown to like you, and your thinking storm chasing is awesome made me like you more.

    Since half of the people here probably scroll by something I have written, I will answer your questions about my motivations. My emotionality and world outlook have not been “normal” since my return from the service. One of my fingers was cut to the bone, and I put the flap together without getting medical attention. Today, my finger is numb in spots and off center, but it works fine. I’m like that.

    I watched a fire cremate a man and his daughter alive, and I promised myself to live a good life to give meaning to theirs. The bad times in the service and later taught me a lot.

    I am not a narcissist. I am more like a sadist for inflicting views at least some don’t want to read. Surely, I am like fingernails on a chalk board. People like Jean are not real to me, so we can’t hurt each other. Singing to the choir is no good. It is our duty to test others’ and our theories on people who disagree with us, just as it is our duty to talk to our representatives and to help the poor and others. If I were a liberal, I would post on conservative sites.

    I don’t have time for many message boards. Beside this one, I occasionally post on a site which tends conservative. I pound the same drum sometimes because like you, I “know” I’m right, and I am relentless. My predictive record is demonstrably good over the years, and I am insufferable because of it. On the other hand, I don’t take myself or anyone else very seriously.

    Sarah Palin does not enrapture me. I am not defending her policies or repeating right wing canards so much as giving the devil his due. I take press bias seriously.

    Our slow dial up service costs a lot of time to connect to sites. I’m a pretty fast typist, and since I often write the equivalent of a book, I tend not to use qualifiers to save a few words and time.

    I am not a PETA fan, but I agree about the whales.

    After I pick the cherries, I face two or three weeks of picking black raspberries. You should taste my raspberry pies.

    “Now people say that you shouldn’t tempt fate
    And for them I would not disagree
    But I never learned nothing from playing it safe
    I say fate should not tempt me.

    I’ve crossed lines of words and fire and both have cut me deep
    I’ve been frozen out and I’ve been on fire and the tears are mine to weep
    Now I can cry until I laugh and laugh until I cry
    So cut the deck right in half, I’ll play from either side

    I take my chances, I pay my dollar and I place my bet
    I take my chances, I don’t cling to remorse or regret
    I take my chances I take my chances every chance I get.”

    Mary Chapin Carpenter


  204. A lot to say but it’s already been said. Been reading for a long time – thank-you.


  205. Jean:
    During the month of July I guess you’ll have to keep your head down, just in case the North Koreans decide to send a message your way. Even though their technology is relatively primitive, their lunacy is scary. For the sake of civilization we just hope they will not be overcome by their delusions.

    My wife suffers from Cutaneous T-Cell Lymphoma. relatively rare but not unknown. It causes the skin to crack and peel constantly which is particularly destructive to her because before she was diagnosed 7 years ago she was a creative, prize winning quilter and now all she can do is sit around and read or watch the tube. She was an enormously talented elementary school teacher, the kind anyone would want their child to have. Some day I’ll have more to say about that because she is really unique.

    Our daughter in law is a musician. She plays in a nearby community orchestra and teaches the string orchestra at a nearby prep school. Our oldest grandson (17) is also deeply into music but could be a parents worst nightmare. He is a drummer in several rock bands. Unfortunately, he is hugely talented. He just hit 800 in the math SAT and the mid 700’s in English and Writing. He is not especially hot to go into sci or math and his parents have left it up to him to decide what to do and where to go which we think is wise.


  206. I haven’t read any of Ayers’ posts in a while (but he doesn’t post very often):


  207. Jean, I have been on barking sands beach. Kind of brings it home. We will keep you guys on the islands in our prayers.


  208. Hi gang,

    Last one today – I promise.

    I forgot to mention that the Navy’s Pacific Missile Range on the West Side of the island (almost circular, 35 miles in diameter) is situated on ‘Barking Sands’ Beach.

    The beach gets it’s name from a strange idiosyncrasy of the sand in that when you walk on it in your bare feet at each step, the sand goes ‘Woof! Woof!.

    Vital information there.


    Auntie Jean


  209. Hi Helen, Margaret, gang and Sherri,

    Helen and Margaret, we REALLY need you to get back here with a new post. We are doing our best to fill up all this empty cyberspace, but……… it ain’t the same without you!

    Sherri, re: our trip to the ‘Big Cities’ yesterday. Ya have to remember that the population of the whole island here is only 50-60 thousand. The ‘Big Cities’ of Kapaa and Lihue are, well…..

    We made the usual rounds of Wal-Mart and Costco and then popped into the hospital’s Same Day Surgery place for my first Epidural Steroid shot. Whoopee! Nice young doctor, an anesthesiologist, gave me his standard explanatory pitch. Then I asked him if he had done it before. He grinned and said, “Well, I’ve read about it.”

    Like a kid with a boo-boo, the mandatory antiseptic, band-aid and Mommy’s kiss to make it all better, I require a hug from the doctor and nurse afterward. I walked outta there with a band-aid on my back plus two hugs. Piece of cake.

    Then we went to dinner at the home of our dear friends from Zimbabwe. She is the flautist with my piano accompaniment. We have been getting together once a week now for about 7-8 years to ‘jam’ Mozart, Debussy, Gluck, etc., then drink tea on the Dinky Deck and giggle.

    It was sort of a celebratory unveiling of a painting I did for her. They had just had it framed and hung on the wall. It is of a piano keyboard with music on it. A flute is leaning diagonally on the keyboard and music stand with three Hawaiian Red Ginger flowers and stems lying across the keyboard.

    We four, and their two little dogs, sat out on the grass under trees in their beautiful Hawaiian Garden of Eden with fine wine and pupus. She is a fabulous gourmet cook. We dined on the lanai on ‘Boeuf Bourguigon’ with mushroom caps and pearl onions (I have the recipe); her divine multi-rice concoction, green salad with pealed grapes and mandarine orange wedges, sharp cheddar cheese encrusted bread loaf and carrot cake. The evening was topped off with scintillating conversation. Perfectly lovely!


    Auntie Jean


  210. I just heard that in the news Jean, it almost feels like the Cuban crisis 😦


    ‘PalinShutUp, it’s the Sea Shepherd. Are they not dedicated to the cause?

    yes oceangypsi but they are struggling, they need an icebreaker


  211. Hi gang,

    Oh dear. It was just reported on CNN (Bill Gates and Lou Dobbs, two unimpeachable sources) that North Korea is messing with nuclear missiles aimed at Hawaii.

    Thought you would be glad to know that my husband will be vigilant every spare moment, out on our Dinky Deck with binoculars, spotting any incoming missiles that might get by the Navy’s Pacific Missile Range. That facility is on the West Side of our island. We are on the North Shore.


    Auntie Jean

    P.S. I hope you all understand that my news flash above in this comment is strictly toungue-in-cheek.


  212. Greytdog,

    Oops! Stepson, not grandson.


    Auntie Jean


  213. Thanks, Werner. I have that page bookmarked and refer to it often!!!

    PalinShutUp, it’s the Sea Shepherd. Are they not dedicated to the cause?


  214. Hi Gang, Greytdog and jari,

    Late morning all. Greytdog,: Proxy/mirror/portal/maze…..huh? Thanks much for staying on top with that and passing it on to us. I wouldn’t have a clue. I’m afraid that Iran is in for a very long tragic haul.

    I didn’t realize that drugs were involved with your 15 year-old grandson. That is REALLY, REALLY heavy stuff to have to deal with. If anybody can though, you can.

    jari, we have lots in common. My husband and I have been married 56 years. My first career was in music. My second was research in Physio-psyche. Isn’t it astonishing the advances that have been made and are being made since Watson/Crick? I can’t begin to keep up now.

    I’m so sorry about your wife’s illness. It is highly treatable though. We had a friend who lived a relatively normal life for 19 (nineteen!) years after diagnosis. Hang in there and best wishes to both of you. We play the hand we are dealt, right?




  215. mom supported peta, I support

    Humane Society International


  216. well, they are saying the media made a huge deal about it not them


  217. I don’t support PETA. Ingrid Newkirk is an asshat and PR whore.


  218. And while I think that PETA offers a lot of important nugges to make us think, on the Fly compassion thingy I can only say:

    “Eat shit!!!!!
    50 Billion Flys can’t be wrong!”

    And I’d still give a buck or two….. but: ;-P


  219. OceanGypsi



  220. Maybe instead of whining about a fly PETA should put their contributions/money where their mouths are and help out that ship trying to stop the japanese whalers?

    just a thought


  221. Important Issues: Health Care is one. I feel there needs to be a public option.

    Here is Jon Stewart on Health Care:


  222. Okay, there IS something I’d like to share, a post I ran across this morning:

    Kids Say the Darndest Things About Gay Marriage

    Here’s the link:

    Keith in NM


  223. Alaskan:

    I couldn’t agree more. I think PETA does some important work, but a fly? Damn, don’t we have much, much more important things going on in the world today than to worry about a damn fly? There are too many dairies near my home, so if PETA needs a couple of flies, I’d be damned happy to oblige. Puleeze!

    There are quite a few “important” issues I could comment on at present, but hey, it’s nearly the weekend so let’s just take a break. I try to live life according to two words/concepts…. grace and gratitude. Works in any and every situation.

    I enjoy ALL you guys, really I do.

    Keith in NM


  224. Hi Grandma Katie:

    Vacation has been restful so far. helping take care of little guys. Head off to Seattle tomorrow to goof off.

    It has been raining in Juneau since I have left. We have had 70 degree days in the Northwest – great weather for me.

    Hope all is going well with you.
    Sorry to hear about the fall Greytdog. I will be on a ladder in a fewf weeks. Helping to put on a roof.


  225. JuneauJoe – hope you a re enjoying your vacatioin and getyour bones thawed out in the warmer climes.

    Greytdog —– Had lunch at a friends house yesterday. I regaled her with your fall from the 12 foot ladder. She enjoyed the story but glad you didn’t break anything. I told her your story as she has a rescued greyhound and small Italian greyhound. I think they rescued one is at least the second one she has had.


  226. Snowing in Alaska:
    We’ve been married 56 years. Just had an anniversary Monday. She’s been the core of my little universe for 60 years now. Few people are as fortunate as I have been. I got the best part of the deal. no question.

    I was obviously having a bad day for many other reasons. It sort of comes with the territory when you reach a certain age. I was trying to make a point but got carried away. I apologize for offending so many readers.

    I taught Biology-Genetics
    But when I finished grad school they were still arguing about whether the Watson/Crick model had any significance. Times have been changing at warp speed ever since.


  227. Iran Protests by the Iranian World Cup Soccer Team

    Protesting can get a death penalty – brave people.


  228. one for you Graydog…




  230. great post whoever…

    at least they say when the left does something wrong that it’s wrong…


  231. What has our media come to? The whole “news” situation is completing ridiculous.

    President Obama yesterday swatted a fly during a speech and you can now get video of it all over the web. Are you kidding me? Is this news? Yesterday I asked myself “Why is this newsworthy?”

    Only to wake up today and find out that PETA is now up in arms and very sad that he had to swat the fly dead. “Couldn’t he have removed it in a safe bug catcher? Why did he have to kill it? They would hope that our president would show compassion to all.”

    OK, I am not for cruelty to animals at all. I even have volunteered at Pasado, a safehaven for unwanted and abused animals in Washington State and put spiders outside when they get in the house, but a fly? Excuse me, but when flies land they leave regurgitation and excrement on things.

    There are so many other things going on in the world, that the reporting of both sides of this is ridiculous. No wonder people around the world think Americans are shallow.


  232. Werner, we must remember – Shrub did a lot during his 8 years – TWO wars. . .torture as an American moral value. . . etc. . . .plus he had to clear all that brush on his “ranch”


  233. Exactly how and when did President Obama swatting a fly become news? We have hungry, homeless children. We have elderly who now cannot pay for their meds after working all their lives. And, President Obama swatting a fly is news?

    Send me happy thoughts! I have an interview on Monday!!!

    Godspeed and respect to all of our soldiers!


  234. Heather:
    …Yet, Bill feels justified in stating he hopes Obama FAILS as a President……

    Not to contradict you (i often agree with what I read from you) but just to make a point:

    From a Canadian perspective Obama CAN’T fail anymore, he arelady did much more than the Shrubb in 8 years!!

    Or am I imagining things?


  235. I just wanted to say one last comment on the whole Palin/Letterman debacle out loud. David Letterman tells one tasteless (but very funny) joke about Palin’s sexually irresponsible, not-too-bright 18 year old daughter, and Palin bullies him into a very sincere, heartfelt apology, even though his one joke will never do anything to contrubute to Willowo Palin’s rape. Bill O’Reilly, on the other hand, spends months and months making inflammatory, incendiary, borderline slanderous remarks about Dr. George Tiller, which directly contribute to Dr. Tiller’s murder. And Bill doesn’t even have to say Tiller’s death was a loss? He doesn’t even have to express any kind of remorse at all? The only thing he’s said about it is – “yes, Dr. Tiller’s death is tragic, BUT think of all the innocent babies who will now get to live because he’s gone.” OMG.

    Republicans, conservatives, whatever the hell they want to call themselves, who gives a crap? They just keep digging their hole deeper and deeper. They’re nuts. Next thing you know someone will be taking shots at David Letterman, because they think they have the right. That’s how these nutjobs think. Bullies, ideologs, hypocrits, and just out and out nut cases, they all make a very good case for a one-party system.


  236. I find it interesting to read about the cleric political battle behind the public political battle. There is very much about the Islamic world that we Americans and westerners in general do not comprehend. I think we will never get the real story because the cultural divide is so vast. Much that we would need to know to understand the situation will be left out of reports because, steeped in their own cultural understanding, they will not think to explain some issues. There is much more going on than a disputed vote. I think the clerics in Iran are encountering a surge of independent thought they were not prepared for.


  237. Last night was a triumph! of a sort. I learned how to code for proxy mirror/portal/maze. Not sure how it works though, but my cousin coached me through it – said it sets up a durable proxy that bounces to a mirror – if you have correct coding, it will allow you through, if not, it bounces you to a mirror – basically turns you on yourself. If you manage to get through proxy then there’s the maze that lets you through via some sort of cyber recognition. He’s in intel security and just gave me the very basics – said that should protect the portals we’re running. Sigh. As for news, it’s still coming out in spurts – but the big news of course is that the protests are getting bigger and more silent. I watched a vid-link yesterday of a moving river of people – all silent. A bit eerie. . .and all I could think was “and the walls came tumblin’ down”. I’m under no illusion that this means political reform or even american-style democracy in Iran. . .I do think it means the new generation wants their voices heard and acknowledged – the real struggle is taking place in the Imperial Council.

    Stepson is back in normal mode – that is, sullen, noncommunicative, and defiant. sigh. Oh well. I’m suspecting he’s a bit angry (again) because SO did inform the court and his probie was here to “verify” the violation(s) as noted in his urine/blood analysis. I have to run the dogs to daycare this am as probie is bringing in a narc dog to sweep the house (SO’s request). . . and I was told that I shouldn’t be here either as I would distract Judah (the dog) since he’s one of my hydrotherapy clients and sees me as his puppy. . . so taking laptop with me and heading to MD then Starbucks for a few hours. . . (they have really nice ottomans to prop up a bum leg)

    jsri – did you say you’re a retired professor? What subject?


  238. JuneauJoe thanks for the info you keep posting as well!

    and james i think storm chasing is awesome


  239. O’Reilly makes the top ten list, ” Media Matters for America writer Karl Frisch wrote the following: I humbly present a Top Ten list of “Right-Wingers From Whom Conservatives Should Be Demanding Apologies.”


  240. Poolman forgot to mention that i noticed your apology for the sick and distorted act of those who claim to be christians earlier on, real christians dont incite hate or harm onto others like palin did at her rallies, bill oreilley, rush and their kind

    faux Christians should read your post of June 14, 2009 and learn by example

    Ive been studying Obama since 2006, i know others who have been following him much earlier than that, the best person for the job is in office today and we better not get lazy four years from now is all i have to say

    neocons only cry ‘welfare & socialism!!’ when it is taken away from them that’s why they are screaming like a bunch of little girls now

    james, i may owe you an apology for letting my knee jerk reaction get the best of me, all i saw was the airing of blog nasty from post to post and that ayers business…it just seems to me your attempt is to post as fact

    mmmcherrypiemmm, are you trying to win me over james? you rascal you! i may be closer than you think lol!

    i am beginning to give you the benefit but still keeping an eye on you, seems to me you sometimes pound the same drum as tradesman in a different style of course, the one where he has stars in his eyes for palin, if this is true this is not the blog where you will get away with posting that stuff and go unchallenged unless you are a narcissist in that respect then Imaginista & jean may be on to something

    jsri, sorry but that comment about people behind their computers rubbed me the wrong way, I have read your earlier posts and agreed with all of them except that one, one thing about me, it doesnt matter what side of the fence you are on

    I am sorry to read about your wife

    greytdog, any news on Iran? hope things are working out with the son, thanks for keeping us posted!


  241. John Stewart regarding Von Brunn and media hype:


  242. jsri

    Nice post! You also have a lot on your plate. My best to you and your wife, and bless your soul for taking care of and tending to her. That’s a priceless gift.


  243. PalinShutUp, I agree with almost all of your post.

    I work at home and cherry picking will begin next week. If you were closer, I would share a home grown cherry pie.

    I chased a storm this evening.


  244. JuneauJoe:
    Good for you. I’m on permanent vacation but have little time to enjoy it. My wife has a serious form of Lymphoma that is treatable but not curable. Tending to her needs takes a lot of time.

    You are lucky to have an understanding employer. My nephew had a similar arrangement but his employer was not as generous. He is now between jobs.

    You sound like me 50 years ago. Don’t burn yourself out. I hope you can step back occasionally and smell the roses. Too much intensity can lead to high blood pressure and heart problems. I know that all too well.

    I’ve worn out one scroll wheel. Now I’m working on the second one.

    I was once a manager of a charter flying service. A lot of free time but also a lot of heartburn.

    I didn’t expect to hear from you. You already have enough on your plate. I hope your problems get resolved soon and you can step away from them and enjoy life a little more.


  245. Good thing we don’t stone people for adultery anymore. There would be a lot more girls getting killed…


  246. Poolman, W got exclusive coverage by Fox for 8 years. Bozell can go stick his head up where the sun don’t shine


  247. Waaawaaawaaa…unfair media coverage:

    Brent Bozell actually thinks it is unfair that Bush didn’t get 2 hours of media coverage for any of his policies. IMO, I don’t think W could have come up with 2 hours of real content…


  248. Another blow to the Christian right…

    “Add Nevada Sen. John Ensign’s infidelity admission to an ever-growing list of woes for the out-of-power GOP…Ensign, who is a member of the men’s Christian ministry Promise Keepers, which calls itself committed to building strong marriages”


  249. Final thought before heading out. . . wonder if the Letterman haters are going to target Sen. John Ensign of NV?


  250. Bill O’Really is becoming more of a joke every day. In the immortal words of Jerry Falwell just before he croaked: *Gaaacck* Says it all.



    Fox News makes me bat shit crazy.

    If you recall, Bill is ALSO the, um, “reporter” who crucified Natalie Mains of the Dixie Chicks when she said she was embarrassed the President was from Texas. He did everything but call for her assassination. Called her a disgrace, encouraged radio stations to ban her music and all but applauded people sending her death threats. He repeatedly stated she should stand behind her President, not be a traitor.

    Yet, Bill feels justified in stating he hopes Obama FAILS as a President.

    Just more “fair and balanced” reporting, I reckon’….


  252. greytdog & snowing….here, here! I’ll drink to what you both wrote. (Tonight it will be half a dose of Nyquil to clear up my summer cold, but I’ll cheer you both w/ my Nyquil!)

    And to all a good night.


  253. jsri

    Get that SCROLL finger in good shape! I find it no problem at all to check in and scroll through comments not pertinent to my interest at the time. It’s actually excellent training for hand eye coordination. I’ve been doing that since the blog started. I, too would love to see these two super star bloggers write posts like crazy, but obviously they have their own pace and so deal with it like most of us do.

    Don’t make assumptions about other posters – they are never correct and it made you sound like a jerk. Since nothing other folks write changes your mind, just go right on by!


  254. Interesting how everyone is “explaining” themselves to jsri. So I will too:

    It’s none of your damned business how I spend my day.


  255. Jean,

    Haven’t heard about it…will research it later tonight or tomorrow.

    Have fun in the big city! Tell us about it tomorrow!



  256. jsri,

    I teach full time (60 hours a week) and attend grad school full time (20-30 hours a week). I also devote an average of 10 hours a week to actively working on numerous social justice issues in my community. I volunteer at my local library at least 10 hours a month. I volunteer many hours each month working on various service projects through the church I attend. I do all this while maintaining an immaculate home, cooking homemade meals six nights a week, tending a fairly successful garden, and nurturing a delightful 14-year relationship. I find time at least once a week to devote a few hours to friends and family. Oh, I also read 4-5 books per week (excluding the 200-400 pages a week I read for grad school.)

    And I’ve never once visited this website or any other non-teaching related website while at work as that would be fraudulent use of taxpayers money and unfair to my students, for whom I work very hard.

    I come here when I need a “brain break” from my grad school work….it’s amazing how refreshing and energizing a ten minute break can be every couple of hours. And visiting this site when I need a brain break helps me sharpen my mind and my wit.

    Oh, and while maintaining the above schedule, I organized four community events in the past two years attended by a collective total of 1200-1500 people and raising a total of $225,000 in funds for various charities. Not to mention two trips to Albany to lobby senators attended by several hundred local voters, about half a dozen smaller events, speaking at local legislator’s meetings about a twenty times, and……..oh, forget it, the list is too exhaustive and exhausting to keep going.

    I’m not trying to toot my own horn. I’m just saying your making some sweeping and unfair judgments of people who likely pop on here for short spurts of time, albeit frequently, to make connections and to incite and sharpen their own thinking processes.

    You know they say if you want something done well ask the busiest person you know. I daresay most of the regular commentators here are some of the busiest and most productive people in their communities.

    Back to the hundred page paper I’m currently writing….and that’s the truth.


  257. Hi gang, Sherri and Keith,

    Off topic – but what the heck is the topic anyway? Just heard about Obama’s signing of a Gay and Lesbian Executive Order granting SOME benefits to Federal Employees not only NATIONALLY, but WORLDWIDE. OK. It’s not everything, but a great first step on the National level for the first time as far as I know. In a short time, when the results do not show heterosexual marriage in total collapse or the sky falling in, maybe, just maybe people will be more amenable to full rights for ALL OUR CITIZENS.

    The other ‘biggie’ is the regulations put in place regarding the financial markets. Could have or might prevent another meltdown. I don’t pretend to understand all the high finance stuff. It is way, way, way over my head and since it is beyond my pay grade, I’m not interested in knowing the intricacies of it all anyway.

    I am very impressed with Obama! He is PRESIDENTIAL and a very busy guy doing his job. Isn’t that refreshing?

    Off to the big cities after lunch to make a day and night of it.


    Auntie Jean


  258. Just for the record, I am my own boss and the pool business is pretty slow in this economy, so you’ll be able to scroll over more of my comments until business picks up.

    As far as the Rev Wright, If you listen to the entire sermon his message is on target, IMO.

    I try to be an equal opportunity basher. I know I have my biases, but I try to look beyond them. Doesn’t always read that way…


  259. PalinShutUp said” sri, with all due respect, I dont believe anyone should have to account for their time on the computer to you or anyone else and as far as who you ignore or dont that’s none of my business.”



  260. didnt billo get his start on that show “Inside Edition” – which, if I’m not mistaken, is a TABLOID show?
    he’s a total ass hat!


  261. also meant to add about Obama saying he was not aware of all of the rev’s comments, I also remember Obama saying that he was not present at all of the rev’s services and again, even if he was in attendance at the sermons there was nothing bigoted or racist, nothing that does not go on in most of those churches so where exactly is the problem? imho they just tried making a mountain out of the molehill


  262. about ayers and the education theory, I would be curious to look into it, personally I am of the same thought, as jean, in respect to her statement where she posted and I quote her

    ‘I do think it is important to dispel this notion that the America is so far superior to anywhere in the world that we disdain other cultures and peoples.’

    I think we have a lot to learn as far as education, my mother was also a teacher and our system is broken

    in the medicine dept lots to learn, what bugs me is why are the poor and the very rich the only people who are able to obtain decent health care in this country? what happened to middle america?

    i also think we have lots to learn from the indigenous tribes of the world as far as medicine but we are so hooked on prescription drugs and filling the pocket$ of the drug companies we are just too blind and lazy to see

    as I mentioned in my previous post, all the rev’s speeches I saw and heard in entirety, no sound bytes, I found no racist or bigoted remarks, when taken out of context, as sotomayor’s remarks were….well….that’s a different story and that was their intent

    ‘At first, Obama said he wasn’t aware of some of Rev Wright’s comments. Then he said he was. Obama had told Rev Wright he wouldn’t invite him on the podium for an affair because his sermons were a “little rough.” He knew Rev Wright was a political problem.’

    I will tell you exactly how that happened, the rev soundbites were playing out in the media, the public was already drowning in the racist/bigot association…

    the rev gets invited to a public engagement where a microphone and a pulpit is placed in front of him

    acts like his usual colorful self criticizing Obama, I forget his exact words but Im sure you can find that on youtube as well

    and Obama pulled the plug on the relationship, I cant say that I blame him because the rev began chastising Obama right in front of the cameras, in other words, communicating with him through the media, perhaps Obama was not giving him enough attention, phone time…who knows…

    after that Obama tried to remain connected to the church and then the church began questioning his reason for pulling the plug on his relationship with the rev so Obama then had no choice but to pull the plug on the church relationship as well

    it was sad to watch as you could tell it was a very emotional decision he had to make but IMHO, they gave him no choice

    jsri, with all due respect, I dont believe anyone should have to account for their time on the computer to you or anyone else and as far as who you ignore or dont that’s none of my business.


  263. Jsri
    I am a helpdesk technician and in between calls I am on my own time, as long as I answer any call in less than 30 sec and I don’t run a second job from work my employer only cares about the quality of my work, and as long as I get several customer recommendations per week I am not worried…..


  264. Bill OReilly sure is a piece of crap!

    jsri: I am on vacation and waiting for my car to get serviced.


  265. Poolman, I just found the link about Sarah Palin you provided. I was expecting to see virtually all of her statements to be untrue. I agree with some of them, but I still wouldn’t have voted for her as president.

    Since then, the pipe line has been approved, I think. At least she made an announcement on the Today Show as she criticized Letterman’s joke.

    Her comment about Obama as a socialist has proven true. We now own auto companies, banks and other financial institutions. I hope it is temporary and that Palin statement is proven wrong.


  266. Margaret and Helen are going to have to speed up producing their discussions. Every time there is a long gap between postings, the trolls and anti-trolls take over and the original subject gets ignored.

    While some people may be put off be the head on approach used by Helen, it is precisely why I’ve been coming here more and more. It is prickly yet refreshing. Most political blogs where I’ve been hanging out have become totally predictable and acutely boring because the same voices get heard time and time again, spouting the same vapid talking points and tiresome canards. Unfortunately, the same thing is happening here and there are a number of posters here who I totally ignore each time their name shows in the header of their comment. That means that almost half of the comments here get ignored because their recycled trivia is predictable.

    I have never seen an argument here that has changed my mind. As a scientist by training, I look for incontrovertible evidence when someone makes a case. Opinions are not evidence but many posters here obviously have difficulty with that concept.

    I’m also impressed by the amount of time that some individuals devote to this blog. But I also wonder if they do anything productive in life. And if they pull this off while working, isn’t that a way of cheating their employer? Actually, I’ve been retired for almost 20 years but I can’t imagine spending all my time simply flinging insults around. There is too much life still to be lived and things still to be done.


  267. PalinShutUp, we have different prospectives because my wife and I live where we can’t get cable. Thus, we don’t watch Fox News. The other networks and magazines we read gave only a cursory hint of the story. If Fox discussed it, I should have qualified Ayres as an example of media bias. I didn’t know until you told me.

    I wondered about Obama’s and Ayre’s views on education which is Ayres strong suit. Does Obama favor placing teachers into a more activist role as Ayres has suggested? Bill praised the Venezualian school system when he visited that country in about 2005. What do those schools have that ours don’t? Why did their schemes in Chicago fail? Is his education philosophy related the the failure? Do he and Obama share similar views on education? I don’t know. It was important to me before the election since my wife is a teacher.

    I like your McCain conspiracy theory.

    Its true the press glossed over some of Palin’s past too, but my experience with conventional television and magazines shows they ignored more about Obama.

    I didn’t link what Bill did as a Weatherman to Obama. Yes, others including the McCain campaign did. What is more frightening than a former terrorist who is Obama’s pal? Throw in the Rev Wright, and you have an issue. That is others, not my thinking.

    I agree to a point. His saying rich white men own the United States is true. And his “G*****America” is a geopolitical theory explaining why the jihadist movement attacked us. I disagree with it, but Rev Wright was making a point. I have attended black churches and I am used to their ministers’ preaching styles, but that sound byte was a little much when played in isolation. I agree, Hillary never met a traffic cop who stopped her for who she was, but the message was intended to harm Hillary’s political chances in my opinion.

    I have read some of the transcripts, but not all. I will take your word that there was nothing racist.

    At first, Obama said he wasn’t aware of some of Rev Wright’s comments. Then he said he was. Obama had told Rev Wright he wouldn’t invite him on the podium for an affair because his sermons were a “little rough.” He knew Rev Wright was a political problem.

    I tried to show that reporters didn’t want to make a point of Obama’s, Wright’s, and Ayeres’ association for fear it would hurt Obama politically. Maybe Fox did, but the networks we watched said little or nothing about their long relationship. The tone of the stories was it was a minor distraction. Palin would have been excoriated.

    I agree about Sarah Palin. She was lifted from an isolated rural state and the McCain campaign gave her an instant make over, complete with new clothes. They pumped her with so much information it was like cramming for a test. I think she was trying to remember which sound byte came next during the interviews.

    On one level, I feel a kinship with Bill Ayres. He did some awful things. So did I. People have told me I am a kind man. Maybe he is too. I hope so.


  268. PalinShutUp: Palin is a Right Wing WingNut, right there will OReilly, Beck and Limbaugh.

    I am left leaning myself.

    Palin and clan are a sad joke. I feel sorry for natives in AK with Palin as Gov. The one thing Palin was good at was getting money into her pocket and ignoring those in need.


  269. JuneauJoe, excellent article but I disagree with the statement that palin is a conservative

    and of course, me being left leaning have to agree with this one

    Sarah Palin “the muse of the coming police state.”

    that’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it :p


  270. Poolman:

    Excellent link about glass houses. Thanks.


  271. ImagistaA, I am a Republican county committee man. Someone proposed a plank advocating creationism in the schools. I countered with a defense of evolution, and conservative Republicans lost their sense of decorum. When it was over, the people who had been sitting where my wife and I were had abandoned our table as they gave us dirty looks across the room. My wife joked that I needed an armed guard.

    Two years later, my wife and I dumped on No Child Left Behind, and the meeting degenerated into a shouting match as teachers joined our side to attack the law’s supporters. It took about five minutes to calm the meeting.

    Then there was my opposition to the plank praising Bush as a good president. It didn’t go over so well either.

    I am not obscessed with Ayres and Palin. I only brought him up because of a post by Poolman, and others called me on it. I wrote about Sarah because some people thought she was making too much of a fuss over Letterman’s joke. Actually weather and storm chasing is my obscession.

    I like you too.

    Poolman, I agree we may not benefit directly from Iraqi oil. Assuming production increases to its normal level, the oil will help us indirectly by increasing the total supply. Production is falling north of the British Isles and near Scandinavia, so anything to increase supply will help. Of course, it should directly help Iraq.

    Annomous, you have not been reading my posts clearly. I don’t think Palin is presidential material yet, if ever. I think her charisma combined with possible future hard times and general disenchantment with life in the United States may make her a winning candidate. That is a long stretch from a woody.

    You can contradict me all you want. I expect it. Just don’t expect me to roll over and play dead.

    It seems to me, all of you “know what you know.” When have you changed an opinion here? You just don’t like my opinions. Several people post off topic subjects. I don’t consider them trolls any more than I am, and my sources are as good as any here.


  272. JuneauJoe, that’s just one of the many associations I was referring to



    “Several FactCheck articles have been viewed as promoting the Obama campaign line instead of truly acting as a fact checkers.”’

    again, tradesman, I do not use any blog as reference, right or left wing

    as far as Im concerned factcheck has never ever been biased in any way shape or form, in many of my discussions with right wings they were able to pull facts from factcheck to prove their points and when I did research after the many debates factcheck pulled many errors and ‘stretches’ from the Obama campaign as well

    if you have FACTS other than from right wing blogs I will gladly discuss with you but it is obvious to me that’s not what you are here for


  273. Pastor Muthee and Sarah Palin:

    Pastor Muthee proudly ran a little old lady out of town because she was a witch.


  274. james, from where I sat the press didnt gloss over the Ayers relationship with Obama, specially the right wing press like Faux news but there was nothing to it and that is what is frustrating to many who tried discrediting Obama

    What beliefs they share now? Well, I suppose if they both like grilled cheese sandwiches can a
    federal case be made out of it?

    about the mccain campaign, I think mccain made the mistake to choose bush’s campaign team, the one he went against and trashed, so they pretty much just got even with him, but that’s my own little conspiracy theory lol!

    imho Ayers is as much of a bogey man as the rev Wright was made out to be, my point is

    one student wrote to CNN when the Ayers drama was hitting the fan:

    ‘Ayers was my teacher, am I now considered a terrorist?’

    did he do something that he should have been punished for? I agree that he should have been but to link Obama with what he did because they may have at one time worked for the same community organization or lived in the same neighborhood is reaching

    about palin, she has many associations the press glossed over as well and it is, in my honest belief, the reason why she didnt do interviews and the couple that she did do, both of which i still have transcripts to, are nothing but sound bites

    about the rev, that’s a totally different can of worms, obviously they had a close relationship, the rev retired and after he did and Obama began running for office the right wingos tried to paint the rev into a bigot and a racist

    I understand the tone of Rev Wright, as incendiary (not racist), I lived for a few years behind a black church in GA, was still there during and after 9/11, I assure you this reverend is far from alone in his views, it is called ‘uplifting’ speech because when society beats you down enough times, tells you that you are not good enough, not light enough, not worthy, not ‘next door apple pie’ enough the Jeremiahs tell you the opposite, help you believe in yourself, keep you going.

    To this day I haven’t seen, read or heard one comment that the Rev made that is of racist or bigoted nature and I wish when someone or the media goes around painting anyone with the racist brush they own up to it.

    Ive gone over the speeches in question, not just sound bites the comments I can come up with that bother people are:

    1. the one about the country being owned by rich white men, well its true! that’s not a racist comment, its fact, if you say different, prove it.

    2. the one about Hillary not knowing what a N****r is? true, she doesnt. She was never pulled over by a cop for being a black man.

    Im not taking away from Hillary’s work and dedication, Im just stating facts. That things are getting better, sure they are, that America is better than many? some may argue this but I digress, a black President is proof we’ve come a long way.

    3. that the rev used the word Goddamn = not racist.

    4. That there will be people who did or did not vote for Obama because he is black? also true, like women who would have voted for Hillary just because she is a woman

    The rev sounded mad, agitated, that’s his style, if you attend black churches you know this is common, nothing new. That he used distasteful language that is prickly intended to piss some people off?, you bet, racist? no.

    The other comments weapons of mass destruction…Ive read, seen heard, discussed in the media, books…you name it, since 9/11 and it doesnt make him a racist as much as it made any of us racists, just because you question authority or disagree with the government, doesnt mean you are anti American or a racist.

    ‘They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.’


  275. “The stones keep flying from glass house to glass house, which may be why following much of today’s political discourse is about as pleasant as wading through broken glass. Wouldn’t it be nice if both the right and the left focused a little less on getting offended and a little more on curbing hate and hysteria in their own ranks? One can always dream.”


  276. Hope those folks don’t have a gun. Bill OReilly and Beck would be heroic figures I would bet.

    ‘I only watch Fox’ says a lot.


  277. Thanks for the link, JuneauJoe. Boy what a bunch of nutwhacks. Calling David Lettermans’ wife a slut when really nothing at all is even known about her? They are really grasping desperately at straws.

    David Letterman is an intelligent, classy guy, not to mention hilariously funny.

    And yeah, he had a child out of wedlock, but at least he was a high school graduate and had a job and was out on his own and not dependent on his parents when he did it. Bristol Palin was a minor, a legal child when she got pregant. It’s babies having babies that’s the real issue here. It infuriates, absolutely infuriates me that Bristol Palin is hugely contributing to this collective American mindset that a pregnant high school girl is not big deal. Why don’t we want more for our young women???? WHY don’t we want our daughters to enjoy their high school years? WHY don’t we want our daughters to be able to go to the prom without worrying about a babysitter?? WHY don’t we want our daughters to be able to study for finals without having to worry about 2am feedings for Crikey’s sake???!!!! WHY is that all we’ve settled for when it comes to our young women??? Why has that become ok?? Because Bristol’s mom is a noted republican??? That’s why every girl in America should lower her standards and be ok with getting knocked up at 17 by the first drop out loser that comes along???


  278. The scary thing is: They are serious and so is Sarah Palin also too.


  279. JuneauJoe, those are some real winners in that clip. Whewww! It is hard to take them seriously. Is that O’Reilly’s fan base, I wonder?


  280. UAW as an undergraduate I was lucky enough to have been bestowed with an Annenburg education grant – and yes, the family is very much involved. They’ve been the leaders in philanthropy in this country – and they don’t let their politics or their religious beliefs impact their philanthropy.


  281. Tradesman: You probably wished you had made it to the Letterman hatefest.

    Your kind of people.


  282. UAW, the heirs are still in charge of the board. Google them, there are a lot of links, take your pick.

    James, I don’t think we will benefit from Iraqs oil. Maybe some among us will, but it is so mired in corruption and the new government is too weak to implement any real policy.


  283. graydog…
    real quick….but I wasn’t talking about the family……do you actually think the family was in the day to day running of grants they made….I suppose you think that since they gave money to the Univ. of Pennsylvania and the Univ.of Southern California that those two schools must be centers for republicanism…it’s the U of P that runs fact check …maybe the old guy is rolling in his grave right now….


  284. Billo should go on next season’s “I’m a Celebrity, Get Me Outta Here!” But the show has a new name for next season… The new title (and a few comments about “Speidi”) are on my blog (below the 2 videos)! LMAO


  285. Anonymous….

    Good post…..

    Everyone should read Helen’s first sentence….

    Margaret, whatever happened to common sense?

    We can keep posting links from the left and right and prove nothing…neither side is 100% right every time nor 100% wrong….


  286. Yeah the Annenburg family – philanthropy, education, humanities, the arts, – and Republican as all get out. But old Republican – as in pre-McCain, as in Roosevelt, as in using your wealth and making your world a better place. . . not so much a Republican ideal anymore


  287. PalinShutUp….

    the name Annenburg keeps coming up?????

    “Several FactCheck articles have been viewed as promoting the Obama campaign line instead of truly acting as a fact checkers.”


  288. OK, UAW, sure. If you say so.

    James, you claim to piss both sides off equally. I kind of doubt it, what with the obsession with Ayers and Palin, and the refusal to even acknowledge facts that others point out to you.

    But I do like both of you guys. I mean it, really.


  289. Imaginista….
    “the thing that jumps out at me is that you are both so bedazzled by Palin’s looks you are defending and championing her with the wrong head”

    Sorry…I’m married…’s enough…
    I’ve heard the joke before…only enough blood to make one work at a time….good joke…not now and not from you…


  290. Werner, I’m sorry about your bad news. My eye trouble and work kept me away, and after my return, I have not been reading many old messages.

    Bill Ayes and his wife were terrorists and criminals who destroyed public property. Both should have gone to jail.

    On the other hand, I did some awful things in self defense when I was in the service.

    Thanks Lori. I am not as partisan as you say you are. As I wrote, I irritate both sides.

    Poolman, presumably Iraq will benefit from the oil reserves. One bone of contention has been sharing oil money. Until recently, Sunnis have been left out because most oil deposits are in other parts of Iraq. Now, oil has been found under their ground.

    We all should benefit if Iraqi production reaches its potential. As the world economy improves, the price of energy will rise again. Adding to the total barrels of available oil will help mitigate the effects of greater demand. As always, time will tell.


  291. Is the latest rumble over? Folks the only thing we know, for sure, about each other is their opinion, the personal stuff not so much. That some of you have a personal agenda beyond commenting and expanding upon Margaret and Helen’s blog is obvious and that you play your misfortunes for advantage, again, evident. Reread Margaret’s comments, on a first read they are hilarious, and yes James, angry and there are words like “ass,” but on a second or third read you’ll gain some insight. Then a serious discussion can result. What is with the pseudo “Wikipedia” articles? The Palin gives me a woody, so she must be Presidential material? Freud was my grandfather, therefore I know what I know, so don’t “contradict” me, blah blah blah. Irrelevant and off topic subjects on a blog are an indication of a “troll.” Sound like anyone you know?


  292. Thanks for the links, PalinShutUp. The first looks familiar, so I may have read it before. It seems pretty accurate to me. I am not fixated on the man. If you check my post, my connecting Obama and the Ayres was a response to Poolman’s asking me to cite examples of press bias. Reporters glossed over the connection because they knew it would be a problem for Obama, in my opinion. The connection was not “groundless, false, dubious” the way I portrayed it. McCain, yes.

    I heard Obama say “this is a guy who lives in my neighborhood” when he debated Hillary. As I had written, the statement was misleading because they had had a relationship for years. I don’t remember writing they were pals who hung out together. If I did, I didn’t intend to. His discounting Ayres’ beliefs because Obama was a child when he set off bombs belies a more important question. What beliefs do they share now?

    I was more interested in their shared or opposing views on education and the criminal justice system. Had Palin and Ayres been friends or associates, I speculate news sellers would have emphasized and twisted the relationship into something terrible.

    I don’t remember if it was on Chris Mathew’s show or the McLaughlin Group that I heard a panelist say the Ayres connection was not an issue because as Obama said their only connection was that they lived in the same neighborhood. As we know it was false, and no one on the show mentioned the Ayres party which helped launch Obama’s political carreer. Bill and Obama shared enough attitudes and values for him to have confidence in Obama. Again, speculation, I doubt the panelist would have said the same about Palin-Ayres.

    As noted on factcheck, the two men had a professional relationship which lasted for years. I winced when I heard the McCain campaign’s attempt to paint the connection into something different than it was. They should have researched the results of the collaboration.

    More importantly to me was the Annenberg Challenge’s failure to improve the Chicago schools’ performance. I’d like to know why. My guess is the board’s methods failed. That should have been the Republican and press issue, judgment and competance. They could have linked it to Obama’s mixed record as a community organizer, again to illustrate faulty judgment. Republicans could have used it to illustrate Obama’s lack of executive experience.

    The McCain campaign went simplisitic and frightening because communists and terrorists grab peoples’ attention. Communism should have been largely irrelevent. I understand why they overlooked the relationship, but the press ought to have studied it further.


  293. A person needs to check out the

    Alaska Indpendence Party and the Palins

    if the Bill Ayers noise keeps coming up.

    The old and dumb charges against Obama are just a red herring, let the guy get his work done cleaning up the Cheney/Bush mess.

    Werner: Get Well!


  294. Hi Gang

    Short update, after the second set of x-rays last Friday they fianlly agreed with me and said that the 6th rib left is broken, but since I finally got some decent painkillers I am fine and up and running (well rather walking) again, and for all of you that worry like my stepfather: the bicycle is OK too! 😉

    On the other side I had bad news on my mothers family side, my stepfather’s cancer came back with metastasis in the brastbone, really shit and she had to cut short her holidays too, Air Canada used this to ripp is off ($305.00 !!!! for changing the flight back! And the call center agents didn’t even book a seat for her! I found out by going on the net and grabbing the LAST seat available)

    Well, when it rains it pours!

    Enough of me, now I will rely to the post and comments again…..

    thanks a lot to you all that send me the nice get well emails….


  295. Well, I am on the side of thinking, that no one’s opinion is more or less important than the others. Even if the majority of opinions on this site are left leaning it doesn’t diminish the minorities opinion.

    Lord knows I get frustrated trying to have conversations that go in circles, but I keep trying. who knows maybe someday we will actually get something accomplished.

    I don’t have a degree in psych. I doubt my psych 101 class counts. I am just a poly sci/business major, coming from back in the day when you COULD double major… So it is above my paygrade to analise why certain people do certain things, or if they are ‘angry” or in need of medical care! Hell I don’t even understand why I do the things i do let alone anyone else! 😉

    I am extremely partisan, and make no apol ( one L) y for it. 😉 . But it has been my observation after 50 years of life that people “believe” what they “want” to believe. So “facts” and proof, and statistics, rarely serve a purpose when having a discussion among friends concerning politics and religion. I only provide them because it seems the right “demands” them. I don’t know why however, because when provided with the facts they asked for they dismiss them… because of course they are from the ‘liberal press”….

    In full disclosure I am not sure any “fact” or poll or stat would dissuade me from loving our president and believing in his abilities… When and IF I ever change my mind about our president, I will come to that decision from my own spot in my life’s journey…. I would like to pretend I would be SOOOOO open to alls thinking and “facts” and stats that I could be swayed into changing my mind, but that’s probs not the case…

    What I AM open to is meeting new people and idea’s… Listening to their opinions and woes. if someone bugs me I use the scroll key. That is what is so nice about the Internet you can scroll and ignore without being offensive or rude!!!!

    Sooooo for what it’s worth I am “pro troll”…… I always liked the story Billy goats gruff….



  296. and here’s an interview William Ayers gave to the New Yorker November 4, 2008

    what I would like to know is, why are some of you still fixated with this man? and why are you still trying to link him to Obama?


  297. Hi gang and Greytdog,

    I love you too! As far as being a tourist like the Brits coming to Disneyland, our travels the past 12-15 years were somewhat different. For one, we had traveled quite a bit for business on extended trips to begin with. Our intent was to learn more in person than we could at home watching TV or reading books.

    We took cruises yes, but also extended our stays at both ends quite a bit. More often than not we rented a car, got maps and took off on our own. (My husband had an International driver’s license.) We have the dubious distinction of having been lost in many of the major and minor cities of the world as well as their countrysides. To say nothing of the hassles in airports, especially Frankfort, Germany and Istanbul, Turkey. What a nightmare with lost luggage in both places! But we loved every minute of it.

    You have talked about your trip to Israel. Didn’t it give you a different perspective than you had all your life before the trip? The people you encountered and the places you visited?

    I am not so naïve as to think that anyplace is Utopia. People have their problems elsewhere, just as we do here. I do think it is important to dispel this notion that the America is so far superior to anywhere in the world that we disdain other cultures and peoples. That is if we ever hope to get along together. We cannot jam our ways down the throats of the world and we sure should have learned not to do it when the people are looking down the barrel of an M-16!

    Tomorrow is a big day! We will be out and about and having dinner with friends tomorrow night. So catch y’all later!!!


    Auntie Jean


  298. james, the ayers association accusations have been found to be ‘Groundless, False, Dubious’

    here is just one of many intelligent unbiased assessments of the relationship

    this is one of the few websites I trust because so far they have proven to me to be unbiased and on point

    at the bottom of the page they quote all of their sources

    if you can show that what is on that link is not true, I am open to a debate about it

    btw, Peace is the wisdom of understanding that we are all much more alike, than we are different.


  299. Word is their government is pretty corrupt and there are still religious factions that hold power.

    Who benefits from all the oil resources?


  300. Wild guess–$600 to $800 billion in both wars.

    Lancet estimated 650,000 Iraqis killed, but their guess is disputed. One government tally is 101, 600 dead in Iraq. We will never know for sure. No one can tell us how many were innocent civilians, though they were numerous.

    Thousands fled Iraq, maybe hundreds of thousands. Some now live in the US, Syria and other countries. Others are returning. Many Christians left too to escape harrasment.

    NPR did a story on Iraq over a year ago. Reporters interviewed Iraqis, and most didn’t want our troops to leave until they had done their work. The consensus was their lives were improving, and since America started the war, they had better finish it before leaving.

    Iraqis in Omaha say their relatives’ lives are better, but I’m sure Baathists disagree. So do people who support al Sadr. Kurds are most optimistic. My niece and her husband are there now, and they say conditions are more peaceful than when they were there before.

    Life there is still pretty fragile, and though an ABC poll showed Iraqis to be more optimistic. Many are surely still traumatized. Their lives will improve if Iraq can hold itself together. Newly discovered oil deposites will help. Otherwise, if the government folds , they will fall into the abyss.

    I’d like to hear from more also. Whatever they think, war is Hell.


  301. Does anybody know how much money we have spent over there to rebuild the infastructure and how much “bang for our buck” did we get? Who got the money and what did it go for?
    Does anybody know how many Iraqi men, women, and children were killed or wounded during this intervention? How many have been displaced or falsly accused and sent away? How many still fear retribution?
    Time will tell if this was a good thing or if their lives are improved. I would rather hear it from them. It would be more believable.


  302. gramma, the Iraqis are living better. They are starting businesses and enjoying their families. Condtions are still harsh, but they no longer have to worry about being snatched in the night, killed or tortured.

    Yes, they have been traumitised, but people over come.


  303. PalinShutUp, What I wrote about the Ayres is true. Look it up. Obama and they have had a long working relationship. To say he was just a man who lived in the neighborhood as Obama did is not true. Had the press told us, in some detail, Obama would have lost votes. I didn’t say there was anything illegal about the association. I said knowledge of what the Weathermen did and the Ayres relationship would have cost Obama votes. That is different from saying Obama was some sort of communist.

    If what I am writing is extreme by your standards, you must be beyond the mainstream.

    I am no fan of George Bush. In fact I think Rumsfeld and others should be fined, maybe jailed, for how they managed the occupation. However, the “march toward George Bush’s theorcracy” sounds as extreme as you accuse me of being.

    I agree, Bush is not and never was a conservative. He and his Republican Congress deserved to lose for the feckless way they ran our budget into the ground. We needed the tax cuts to help revive the economy. We did not need the spending which sent us into thrall to the Chinese. My quarrel with Obama is he is Bush in overdrive.

    Jean thinks I am trying for the sympathy vote when I mention my eye, or something else, but I won’t check the link because my eye hurts, and I shouldn’t be spending any more time with close work. If that paragraph about Bush’s spending and his not being a conservative comes from the link, I agree completely.

    I also agree about Iraq. I opposed the war in the beginning, but I think I was wrong. In a sense, Iraq did fight for its freedom. The Anninbar (sp) Awakening began shortly before the surge. The Jihadists over played their hands when they demanded shieks and others give up their daughters as wives. One refused, and some of his men were killed. He contacted the Army and offered a deal. That and other dramas were the start of Iraqis fighting for their freedom.

    Other nations, notably Britian helped and suffered casualties. So did the Danes. One of my e friends from Denmark was proud of his country’s effort.

    I also agree about the weapons of mass destruction. The Bush adminstration stated other reasons to invade Iraq. One, as Thomas Friedman was to create an island of relative democracy in the heart of the Muslim world to offer alternatives. Bush used WMDs because he believed they existed and because he knew making an outpost of freedom in the Middle East wouldn’t sell as well as WMDs.

    Thanks for your brief ideological history.

    I am not a conservative or a liberal, as you might suspect by now.

    I am surprised we agree more than we disagree on these two posts. What happened?


  304. gramma, my heart aches as well but there is so much people can take from a dictator till they push back, with sticks and stones if they have to 😦


  305. …….the people of Iraq are living better now but………

    i disagree, the iraqis are not living ‘better’, they are traumatized by watching their babies blown up in their own houses…. heartbroken from burying their loved ones,
    family bloodlines to the future have been wiped out by the hell of war in their own
    yards. it is going to take generations to heal from uncle sam’s invasion.


  306. Jean, I am one course short of a Psychology major, and our daughter is a therapist. My wife has a multi major including psychology. She teaches high school psychology and other courses.

    Any sentient person can spot angry people, and though you try to hide it, people who contradict you touch a nerve don’t we? You are locked into a belief system you created over the years, and you don’t like contradiction. I also know passive-aggressive when I see it. At least PalinShutUp is man or woman enough to say what I write is BS instead of pussyfooting and hiding behind rediculous fantacies about my psychological practice.

    I lived in England for two years, and have e friends who let me know what is happening. So does the news section of the BBC weather Centre. When we lived there, an electonic sensor truck passed through the neighborhood looking for untaxed radios and televisions. We even had to pay a tax on our garden hose. Britian’s medical health system is in trouble. I heard MPs say it in Parilamentary debate. My e friend’s brother has been waiting over a year for elective surgery to correct a sinus problem. I have been in much of Europe. The Scandinavian nations are different from us. Their population is less diverse, and they have oil money. They may mind their own business, because they have the luxory of our massive military expenditures to protect them.

    Notice the resurgent conservatives in the last elections. Labor lost most of its town council elections in the South of Britian. Europeans are getting fed up. The French also have economically based unrest. I don’t have to tell you European socialism hinders economic development.

    You have nothing Jean, so you resort to personal attacks. You also haven’t read me as well as I read you.


  307. james also meant to comment on something you posted about Iraq yesterday, i think, the people of Iraq are living better now but I would have MUCH rather gone in to help them with the assistance of other countries and let them fight their own revolution just like the people of Iran are doing, instead of using lies about weapons of mass destruction….


  308. ‘greytdog

    Jean I love you to death but please live in those countries as a citizen rather than as a tourist . . . the outlook is different…’

    that is so true! Ive had a bone to pick with Michael Moore and the fantasy he told in his movie about the Cuban health care system being so perfect

    well, it isnt perfect, I know of two people who died because they were refused treatment because they were not ‘fidel friendly’


  309. Like I said before james, that stuff you posted yesterday up there about Obama and his ‘alleged involvements’ with ayers and the rev….is the sludge the zealots drudged up during the election to discredit Obama so he wouldn’t win the election because they were desperate and didnt have anything else, so they reached pretty low

    I dont know how far in the wilderness you live but we’ve already been there and done that and back around these parts

    he is our President now

    If you come here and give constructive criticism, fine, that’s your prerogative, hell, there are things that are being done many of us dont agree with but dont come here posting ‘extreme right blog dirt’ as fact and not expect to be challenged by anyone

    I dont care who takes up for you

    if you are still reading, I was raised by two conservatives, many years ago I would have said Republicans but Im not because the last few years of my parent’s lives they told me how disgusted, dissapointed they were with the Republican party’s use of the term conservative

    Most of my opinions are also influenced by other sources as well, I have been involved in a political group with some great political minds of all persuasions, parties and non

    This is something Ive put together in my years of studying the term “conservative” and I posted it here some months ago during the election

    Helen forgive the re-post

    Conservatism has been taken over in the last 15 years or so, abused by neoconservative recklessness, led into a rival form of religious, political fundamentalism which has resulted in the loss of constitutional freedoms in the United States of America

    by people like bush, cheney, palin….

    The past 8 years have slipped as far from traditional conservatism with emphasis on heavy government spending without commensurate taxation, unconscionable expansion of executive power at the expense of other branches of government and against the U.S. Constitution, as well as putting religious ideas in the place of reasonable, skeptical inquiry.

    the outrage and atrocity of Sept 11 blinded many of us, and rightly so, but we were supposed to have a leader who should not have led this country into the precipice of fear.

    The founders of the American constitution were well aware of the dangers of religious fundamentalism allied to government power, hence the First Amendment.

    The tripartite goal of the American founding was “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” They did not write, “the pursuit of virtue or the pursuit of morality” Americans insisted on freedom first.

    The lurch toward George W. Bush’s theocracy violates the foundations of conservatism. “Tax cuts were simply a matter of faith,” and accompanied a “staggering expansion of government power and spending [which] increased by an astonishing 38 percent since 2000” resulting in “a bankrupting of the American government” so that “by the end of one term, President Bush had more than doubled [the US Government’s future spending commitments] to $43.3 trillion [with] absolutely no way to finance it.” fast forward to 2008 and you have proof that Bush is not a true conservative by any stretch of the imagination.

    My proof is that link I posted yesterday for tradesman, if you disagree with what is in there then come back and challenge it

    waving it off as ‘Dem
    nonsense’ like he did tells me only one thing = TROLL.

    Anyway, there is more to life than politics [but] the best form of politics is that which enables us to engage in nonpolitical life more fully and more freely.

    Can you handle that?

    off the soapbox


  310. Jean I love you to death but please live in those countries as a citizen rather than as a tourist . . . the outlook is different. Your references are a bit like talking to the Brits who come to Disney World – they think Florida is always sunshine, beaches, and theme park rides. They don’t know – no tourist knows what any country is really like until they live there – and not in their little protected enclaves surrounded by others of their ilk.


  311. Wow. I thought it was 2 p’s…


  312. Hi gang, LordyOhmygosh, PalinShutup, Lori, Sherri, Raji and whoever is next,

    James wrote, 6/16, 8:40A: “LadyOhmygosh, your writing “dumb ass parrots” is angry and disrespectful. You missed my point. Please take an anger management class before you harm yourself or others. Please. We live under a combination of socialism and capitalism. It has made us one of the world’s most dynamic economies. European type economies tend to be more sluggish than ours.”

    And James again,6/16,7:17P: “PalinShutUp, You still don’t know much about me. I have been pretty open about who I am.”

    James has stated here that he is an Iowa farmer. He never mentioned he was a licensed practicing psychiatrist or psychologist qualified to diagnose ‘anger and disrespectful’ or to recommend ‘anger management class before you harm yourself or others.’ If he is either, he should be reported to the Iowa State Medical Association for making irresponsible statements about an individual HE does not know, or possibly practicing without a license.

    Regarding European economies that are more sluggish than ours, I can’t help but wonder when the last time he personally was in Europe, especially Scandinavia. They are spotlessly clean, prosperous bustling countries of delightful people with a subtle delicious sense of humor. They gave up several centuries ago on being ‘World Powers’. They don’t have a compulsion to acquire or have nuclear weapons. They are not big on starting wars either. They are busy minding their own business and taking care of their own countries and people, socialist or not.

    I have noticed a pattern with James over the past few months. He very much enjoys taking on strong intelligent women in pseudo-intellectual
    ‘debates’, throwing out zingers like those above and then retreating for a while into the ‘poor me’ sympathy mode of his physical ailments before he returns to take on a different intelligent woman. Get the picture? I have no time or interest playing that game.

    I do think he owes some of you an apology.* He consistently misspells the word with two “ll’s”.

    * Source: “Webster’s New Twentieth Century Unabridged Dictionary”, Second Edition, New York, published by Prentice Hall Press, a division of Simon and Schuster, Inc.


    Auntie Jean


  313. The subject was:

    Bill OReilly is a biased hate mongering idiot who has time on Fox News, which does not really have news but instead, spend their time telling people how to think and live their lives. OReilly and friends also have a subtle way of telling people that it is ok to kill those they (Fox News) demean and the killers are not terrorists if they kill people who are left on the political spectrum anyway.

    Bill OReilly likes Sarah Palin by the way and goes after people who are unkind to her also too.


  314. Kind of went from O’Reilly’s ass to Miss CA, Alaskan Affairs, Iran, Alaskan Affairs,Iran, with some wierd cowshit in the middle. Now back to Iran…


  315. Anyone remember what the subject was?


  316. The Jawa Report is now linked to Michele Malkin’s site which is linked to the Drudge Report. Sandcrawler PSI says the purpose of the guide is to help “you participate constructively in the Iranian election protests through Twitter.”

    “Security forces are hunting for bloggers using location and timezone searches. If we all become ‘Iranians’ it becomes much harder to find them.”

    That is something tangible anyone with Twitter can do–help keep their communication lines open as we encourage them.


  317. UAW, where’s the double standard? These guys were vindicated. Even the link you gave to agreed they were right in their protest of the city’s policy. More fuel on the fire here?


  318. JuneauJoe, yes we and the Palins need to move on.

    SherriA, I agree with greytdog. This is not the time for our leaders to be making statements we can’t/ won’t back up. If the crisis continues long enough groups may find ways to smuggle supplies to the Iranians. My wife and I have sent care packages to our troops, and we will do the same for the Iranians if the opportunity presents itself. If so, I will let you know. Time will tell. We can always pray.

    I don’t mind being teased, and you were funny.

    My favorite book so far this year is history of WW11 correspondents. The other is The Stand By Stephen King, though I have read it before.

    I think its good that British Airways and its employees agreed on a measure to save the company. I hope the executives are also working for free.

    I read an important Democratic donor protested a tax increase, and the legislative leader gave him short shrift. He persuaded two Democrats to switch parties which gave Republicans control. Then, he moved to Florida.

    I don’t have much hope of curbing human trafficing until nations decide to stop it.


  319. Hi gang,

    Moving right along to statistics, polls, etc,:

    Some rainy Sunday afternoon when you have nothing better to do, sit down with a pen and paper and start flipping a coin for several hours. Keep a tally of the number of heads and the number of tails that turn up. Over time, you will find that the numbers are almost equal. The chances are 50-50 that any flip of the coin will turn up either heads or tails.

    When it comes to trying to predict what the chances are against being struck by lightning or in favor of winning the lottery, we all want a little better odds than 50-50. This is where research and statistical analysis come in with something more reliable than an educated guess, superstition or an Old Wives’ Tale.

    The Science of Statistics has come up with the ‘Bell Curve’, probably best remembered from some classes in school. Sometimes tests are graded ‘on the curve’ as opposed to alphabet or numerical grading for an arbitrary standard that may or may not apply to that particular class.
    It is the same principle as calculating the batting average of a baseball player. The larger number of times at bat, the more accurate the description of the average is.

    It would be a mistake to say that an average salary is $500,000 if a millionaire’s and an unemployed person’s incomes were the only ones taken into consideration. Both the millionaire and the unemployed person would take umbrage! A wide cross section of different salaries would need to be entered into the calculations.

    A number of variations of the Bell Curve are used for different purposes with the numbers denoting different values. A widely used one is to measure intelligence in IQ tests, (Intelligence Quotient.) The average or ‘mean’ here is 100. The ‘mean’ is shown in calculations as “X”.

    Over the years a number of different IQ tests have been administered to thousands of people, usually students. Barring serious injury or illness, the level of intelligence is quite constant throughout a lifetime. A score of around 100 is the score the vast majority of test takers received. A score of 115, means that person’s score is 34.13% higher than all rest of the people. 130 is 98% higher than the rest and there are far fewer people with that score. 145 is 99.9% higher than everybody and not many achieve that score.

    Conversely, the same percentages apply below 100 only the scores are lower rather than higher than the mean. Both the upper and lower ends of the curve are left open to infinity because no one can know just how high or low intelligence can be.

    A child given an adult test would no doubt score close to zero. That does not mean the child has no intelligence, only that the child has not lived long enough to learn anything that is on the test. Or a genius could ace the test, so that would not be a good indicator of just how much he does know. AN EXAMINATION IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE SKILL OF THE PEOPLE MAKING UP THE QUESTIONS ON THE TEST!!!!

    This reflects THE very important principle – THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES IN SCIENCE! Another factor that must be taken into consideration is that human ignorance is eternal. FURTHER, THE OBSERVATION OF A PROCESS, OF ITSELF, ALTERS THE PROCESS. The mere fact that the process is being studied introduces a VARIABLE that can affect the results of whatever is being tested. As often as not, this ‘Observer Bias’, whether unconscious or deliberate, has a definite influence of the outcome of the study. One time a monkey was being observed through a peephole, presumably so the monkey wouldn’t know he was being watched. Next thing the scientists knew was, all they could see was the eyeball of the monkey. He was observing them to see what they were up to!

    Suppose a scientist wants to test something to see if it is true. He starts with an HYPOTHESIS, that is, a statement of cause and effect. Are tall people smarter than short people, or are short people smarter than tall people? Obviously, he cannot test all of the tall and short people in the world. So he has to test only a small portion of the people, called a SAMPLE, and then hopes to infer that all the tall people, called the POPULATION, are smarter than the short people or vice versa.

    If he can ‘prove’ his hypotheses then he shows a correlation between being tall and being smart or being short and being dumb. Or maybe between short and smart or tall and dumb. Theoretically, one attribute would affect the other. No problem. Just round up a sample of both tall and short people and give all of them IQ tests and then compare the results.

    This is where it gets sticky. How can he choose a sample at RANDOM that will be representative of the whole population? How tall? How short? Men or women? What ages? What level of education? Rural or urban? American or any other part of the world? How healthy? How many are willing to participate in the test? Where and when will the tests be administered? What time of day? Short blond people vs. tall blond people, short dark-haired people vs. tall dark-haired people. What about redheads of either height? Who will pay for all this testing? WHO WILL REALLY CARE? All of these questions and any more we can think of are VARIABLES that have to be factored into setting up the experiment.

    Statistics recognize the fact that it is not possible to account for all the variables. A Margin of Error is built into the mathematical calculations to offset that problem. Whenever you see or hear of, for instance a political poll, and it says there is a Margin of Error of plus or minus so many points or numbers, that is what it means. Often we hear of an opinion poll in which it is stated that it is not a scientific poll. That means no hypothesis has been set up ahead of time to test the VALIDITY statistically.

    Validity means, do the results accurately reflect the opinion of the wider population? For example, say a particular television program asks are you in favor of this politician’s views. How many people will respond either by phone or e mail? How many are even at home? How many are tuned to that particular program at that particular time out of the hundreds of possible television channels? There are other things to do beside watch television even if the people are at home. How many have computers and are hooked up to e mail? What if a person wants to respond but there is a power short and can’t. Major frustration! Thus, the poll does not represent a random sample of all people and cannot be considered scientific or valid.

    PROBABILITY has to do with the predictability that an event will occur in the future based on the correlation between cause and effect.
    DEMOGRAPHICS are GROUPS of people in specific categories such as age, sex, religion, race, ethnic background and socio-economic status as well as combinations of those categories. Samples of the people in these demographics are used for political as well as other surveys to try to determine what the outcome will be. The predictions can be fairly accurate for the TREND of GROUPS but not for INDIVIDUALS. People have a way of changing their minds from poll to poll as circumstances and current events change.

    Believe it or not, these variables and their inherent headaches have been worked out pretty well and SOMETIMES reasonably accurate predictions have and are being made every day by use of extremely complex mathematical calculations. It works for perhaps the majority of people but there are always individual exceptions to the predictions.

    The key is that the scientists have to spell out the hypotheses in great detail, exactly what is their premise, how they intend to carry out the experiment and what conclusions they hope to find and, in the end, do find. Many of the experiments involve years of study. The most important outcome is that other scientists have to be able to use the same techniques and come up with the same deductions. No FUDGIN’ WITH THE DATA AT ANY STAGE! Other scientists will pick up on it when they replicate the experiment.

    Many remarkable advances made are the result of this scientific method of experimentation and the statistical analysis that follows. If an experiment has been scrupulously outlined in the hypothesis and carried out according to procedures, it may indicate that such-and-so is true for a majority of people or events. The highest number of subjects will fall into clusters, around the middle of the Bell Curve but then taper off toward either end. Since there are no absolutes, predictably there will always be a scattered few at each end of the curve. However, Everybody has an aunt or a grandfather that is an exception to the rule.

    This gives rise to the old adage, “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies and statistics!




  320. PalinShutUp, You still don’t know much about me. I have been pretty open about who I am. That I irritate both Republicans and Democrats shows I must be doing something right. Most my opinions are supported by other sources. Maybe I have missed similar posts by you.

    I live in a remote area, and sometimes we have to defend ourselves. That is not viligantism. Once the sherrif told our neighbor to carry a gun because there was no way anyone could get to him in time.


  321. Is it Over Yet??
    16 06 2009

    David Letterman has formalized his apology to Sarah Palin about the “knock up” joke. And she was asked if she accepted the apology.

    Of course it’s accepted on behalf of young women, like my daughters, who hope men who ‘joke’ about public displays of sexual exploitation of girls will soon evolve.

    Letterman certainly has the right to ‘joke’ about whatever he wants to, and thankfully we have the right to express our reaction,” Palin said. “This is all thanks to our U.S. Military women and men putting their lives on the line for us to secure America’s Right to Free Speech – in this case, may that right be used to promote equality and respect.

    A wise man once told me that when someone apologizes, there’s only one thing to say. “I accept your apology.” But, since Governor Palin does not know the same wise man I do, that’s what we got.

    Somehow, the military has come into the equation. I don’t know how or why, or what war on Free Speech she’s talking about, but I’m assuming that between now and the day she declares she’s running for president, we can expect all sorts of groups inserted into announcements whenever possible.

    So, can we please move on now? And I ask this on behalf of all Alaskans who have grown weary of the drama brought forth every time the governor opens her mouth, which she has every right to do as a duly elected official who was sworn into office based on principles for which we can thank those brave patriots and founders of our nation whose blood was spilled more than 200 years ago to create our Republic and give us the right to vote.

    from AKM at Mudflats


  322. Sherri, there are lots of things going on Twitter in re to Iran – including how to maintain proxy portals, etc. for communications. Right now, the sense from various communiques we’ve filtered is that this is the Iranian people’s fight, not ours. And we, as Americans, really have to understand that while Mousavi, when compared to the current regime, is a reformer, he remains a hardliner in regards to the Iranian nuclear program and anti-Israel. This is not just about the fraudulent election but is also wrapped into a power play among the clerics. I think Americans simply forget that when all is said and done, regardless of having elections, Iran is a theocracy – and the clerics, indeed one cleric, Khamanei, has the final say. Seems there is rumbling going on among the clerics, and Rafsanjani is lobbying fellow clerics to overthrow Khamanei. That’s why it’s very important right now that America, as a nation & government, makes no overt statement or moves – but lets this whole thing play out in Iran. I am very glad that the US State Dept and WH both appealed to NTT Hosting Services/Twitter to delay maintenance; I am also glad to know that Obama seems to have quite the handle on the situation and isn’t making any grandstand moves, like McCain and Pence. Lugar is glad too.


  323. since we’re in the double standard thing…..

    why are some peoples rights MORE important than others….


  324. Poolman, I totally agree it’s time to unfurl a new flag.

    Does anyone know what’s going on with the NYS senate?

    Any opinion on British Airways asking their employees to work free for a MONTH?

    Anything we can do to resolve the global problem of increased human trafficking?

    How about commentary on how social networking has proved crucial for Iranians since their government has banned most journalists and media from giving us the real story of what’s happening there.

    Anything practical we can do to help desperate Iranians who are trying to stand up from theirselves and essentially overthrow their dictator?

    What’s the best book you’ve read this calendar year?


  325. poolman…
    No….it’s proving my point…the double standard….


  326. Thanks. It is my oldest GS years ago.


  327. Poolman!!! Cute avatar!!!! Love it – love it! Makes me smile


  328. Just making observations. If you’re feelin’ slapped, maybe that’s just reality asking you to wake up.


  329. and Drudge also links to Daily Kos and Huffpo


  330. poolman…
    another slap at law-abiding citizens….


  331. sherri…
    at 11:23 I said end of story….
    Letterman appoligized and Palin accepted….done…
    everything except the bashing….
    get over it….Letterman was wrong and he admitted it……


  332. It’s a good thing we don’t shoot people for lyin’ ’cause there would be a whole lot more casualties out there.

    You people out there with all the guns. Please keep those safeties on.


  333. Let’s fly a different flag for a while.


  334. AKM over at puts the story to bed:
    “Is it Over Yet?”


  335. James, I’m glad you laughed!


  336. Here’s some Palin/Letterman coverage in its proper context – comedy:

    Not safe for the Throbbing-Crush-On-Sarah contingent.


  337. Here’s something from Alaska with better taste and appeal…


  338. I bet she’s popular with the Nascar crowd.


  339. As they well know, I will defend UAW and James to any newcomer here in the parlor. But guys, I really have to say, after wading through over 300-plus posts, a good many from the two of you, the thing that jumps out at me is that you are both so bedazzled by Palin’s looks you are defending and championing her with the wrong head. If she looked like Janet Reno you nor anybody else would even be talking about her, much less defending her and trying to convince people she’s not PBD.


  340. Fox knows that they don’t present the news …. that isn’t their objective. They INFLUENCE opinion. And that IS their objective. The authoritarian mind is often petty and closed. looking for justification for their narrow view. Fox offers that justification and the people who watch Fox for their news are convinced that it is “Fair and Balanced” because it justifies their pettty or greedy or fearful (etc) reasons for their rightwing authoritarian type opinions. Fox is well aware of this and they have a twofold reason for pushing these views:
    1) It fits in with the political agenda that Murdoch and Ailes are interested in.
    2) It attracts a lot of viewers. RATINGS!!

    Would Fox change its format if suddenly they were to get megaratings if they were to push a progressive dogma? I BET MY SWEET FAT ASS THEY WOULD!


  341. We don’t therefore stay vigilant.


  342. “Poolman sees the light

    my work here is done 🙂 ”

    But how do we know if that light is the light of reason, or maybe the train light coming down the track at us?


  343. just kidding of course Poolman, not taking credit for your wisdom

    Im just over the BS being shoveled around as fact by a couple of folks who target this blog

    off to work


  344. ‘Funny how some will throw up a far RW link for consideration, but call LW links bogus. Unless, of course, they can be used to throw fuel on the fire. I think you can find anything on the internet to prove any point. Just like you can pull anything out of context and skew its meaning. The intent, I perceive, is to merely stir up trouble and division, and not an honest desire for enlightenment.’

    Poolman sees the light

    my work here is done 🙂


  345. Funny how some will throw up a far RW link for consideration, but call LW links bogus. Unless, of course, they can be used to throw fuel on the fire. I think you can find anything on the internet to prove any point. Just like you can pull anything out of context and skew its meaning. The intent, I perceive, is to merely stir up trouble and division, and not an honest desire for enlightenment.

    Others are strong in their convictions and can argue with respect to differing opinion and offer a glimpse of another view that can help solidify or modify our own core beliefs.


  346. The Drudge report? Very RW, for sure. I’m not surprised, UAW. Why would you want RNC reporting from the whitehouse when DNC is not. They incorrectly think the Whitehouse and the DNC are the same. That is an ignorant bias rant.


  347. Letterman apologized

    Now, will Rush, O’Reilly and Beck apologize for inciting?

    O’Reilly and Beck work for a News channel but they are more Make up and incite than real news.


  348. ‘James,

    When you wrote “Sarah Palin is a major force today” I’m sure you meant “a major farce!”

    We’ll chalk it up to your bum eye.’

    LOL! me too.

    james, I dont hate anyone, I just like to smoke out those who masquerade as something they are not, you know, like roaches

    ‘Sometimes, we even do our own law enforcement.’

    now THIS I believe, vigilante much? 😉


  349. Here is the link to Shannyn Moore’s blog.

    If you want to know about Palin and her devine rule of AK, this and Mudflats are good starting places.

    Palin is a sad joke folks.


  350. This is why, for me, Palin is not important in the scheme of global politics much less US politics
    Warning: this is graphic.


  351. SherriA. Thanks for the little joke. I liked it. You made me laugh.

    You never bore me, and neither does UAW.


  352. More from: Shannyn Moore: A Girl From Homer

    3) “Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.”–John McCain, Sarah Palin’s running mate. Should McCain apologize to every young woman in America?

    2) Palin’s friend, political defender and informer of the David Letterman comments, John Ziegler, was fired from his radio show for using the “n-word” online and on air in 1997. In 2000, he was fired for spelling the “n-word” on the air. How much does that word affect the psychological health of America’s youth, regardless of their race? Now he is pimping his film about how mean the “liberal media” was to Sarah Palin.

    AND…The NUMBER 1 REASON Sarah Palin’s Outrage is Misplaced and A Little Late…

    1) The “candidate who must be obeyed” was talking about Palin’s family when he said, “Kids are off limits.” Jake Tapper of ABC News interviewed then Candidate Obama, and asked, “Governor Palin and her husband issued a statement today saying their 17-year-old daughter Bristol, who is unmarried, is five months pregnant. Do you have any reaction?”

    OBAMA: “I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people’s families are off-limits. And people’s children are especially off-limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Governor Palin’s performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know, my mother had me when she was 18. And, you know, how family deals with issues and — and, you know, teenaged children, that shouldn’t be the topic of — of our politics.”

    The Palin children have been fodder for comedians since they were brought to the national stage. Incest isn’t funny. Ugly kid jokes aren’t funny. Many of the things said about public figures are just flat wrong. Being “knocked up” isn’t much fun. Racist comments hurt all of us. I exhausted the top 10 list before I ran out of outrageous instances ignored by the Palins.

    The National Organization for Women named David Letterman to their Hall of Shame. Will Letterman be joining Jay Leno? Conan O’Brien? Craig Ferguson? Seth Myers? Rush Limbaugh? Or John McCain? Of course not! I guess N.O.W. didn’t bother checking Sarah Palin’s “feminist” credentials. All across America, right wing radio and television talk show hosts feigned outrage in perfect synchronicity. The same people who back up Palin’s high drama assertions against Letterman ignored the connections between Bill O’Reilly’s irresponsible incitement and the murder of Dr. George Tiller. David Letterman, a late night entertainer, apologized. Fox New’s Bill O’Reilly has not.

    As a parent, I understand being defensive. I just wonder what took so long. Why now?


  353. UAW –

    Give it up already. There is NOTHING you can say to convince anyone here that Palin & Prejean are victims. Any comments related to either of them are uninteresting and irrelevant.

    Many significant events have happened in our world in the past few days…can’t you move on to something remotely intelligent, interesting, and relevant?

    You’re boring the lot of us.


  354. James,

    When you wrote “Sarah Palin is a major force today” I’m sure you meant “a major farce!”

    We’ll chalk it up to your bum eye.


  355. “He said he got a call from his mother earlier in the day telling him she was siding with Palin.”

    note: even my ultra liberal wundermom was pissed off (although she herself didn’t use that word) at Letterman. Of course, she never did like Letterman anyway. She prefers Jon Stewart.


  356. PalinShutUp, you, are deluded, and your hatred gives liberals a bad name. You are the stereotype conservatives use to frighten their children.

    LordyOhmygosh, I sorry I mistyped your handle and that I insulted you. My eye is not yet back to normal and I have been skimming. I agree about your point that many people don’t realize how much our government does for us.

    Sometimes, we even do our own law enforcement.

    Yes, we raise lots of corn and soybeans.

    JuneauJoeA, time will prove which of us is right about the Governor. So far, most of the facts support my view that she is a major force today.

    Democrats and Republicans, including the Bush administration both caused this recession. That is another fact more reading will reveal.

    Bush/Cheney did not start the Afghan war, the Jihadists did. bin ladin declared war on us in the nineties and no one noticed. Most Democrats cheered them on in the beginning. That is fact.

    I opposed entering the Iraqi war, but its people are living better lives and have more hopeful futures now. Our niece and her husband are serving second tours there, and life is peaceful for them. Another fact.

    This is speculation, different from the facts I just shared. Thomas Friedman, a liberal who supported the war mused that a relative democracy in the heart of the Musilm world may encourage others to emulate them. By his logic, the Iranian protest movement might be a side effect of our success in Iraq.

    The money we have spent on the war which has yielded tangible results pales in comparison to proposed domestic spending programs. That is a fact.

    It is also a fact that Obama has adopted many of Bush’s war policies, including some critics say threaten our constitution. By the way, Robert Byrd, a Democrat accuses Obama of subverting the constitution when he hires “czars” who wield power but who are not subject to Congressional confirmation and scrutiny.

    In 2003, Johns Hopkins Professor and Middle East expert Fouad Ajami wrote that a free Iraq might have an effect on neighboring Iran. William Jacobson of the Cornell Law School wrote on his blog, that ” the effects of a free Iraq, in which there is a multitude of competing parties, and widespread economic freedom must be great on the Iranians. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Iranians visit Iraq annually. Iraq has maintained a Shiite Islamic character for the most part without the repressive policies of Iran.

    While Irastillis subjected to violenc, the contrast between the direction Iraq is moving and the stagnant Iran, could not be more clear, and miut not be lost on Iranians in th streets.

    David letterman’s ratings were worse that Nightline’s at times. I speculate that maybe he was the attention monger, and the Palins decided they had had enough.

    greytdog, “slutty flight attendant” while insulting to flight attendants and Palin is funny because it carries an element of truth.

    Joking about a ball player impregnating a fourteen year old is wrong. That the joke writer apparently couldn’t tell the difference between the two daughters makes the joke even worse.


  357. Oh right – Drudge Report. Here’s some fuel for the fire:


  358. Sarah Palin accepts David Letterman’s apology

    He said he got a call from his mother earlier in the day telling him she was siding with Palin.

    end of story…


  359. fairness doctrine….


    Today, the Republican National Committee requested an opportunity to add our Party’s views to those of the President’s to ensure that all sides of the health care reform debate are presented. Our request was rejected. I believe that the President should have the ability to speak directly to the America people. However, I find it outrageous that ABC would prohibit our Party’s opposing thoughts and ideas from this national debate, which affects millions of ABC viewers.

    fair and balanced????


  360. Not all farmers grow corn. And so what if James grows corn? Your point is???? Sheesh this is really descending into a pit beyond snarky.


  361. PSU…
    here’s a web site for you….–Drill-Drill-D-by-Dean-Powers-090610-514.html


  362. JuneauJo…
    from CNBC…..
    Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) agrees with me, and even credits me with drill, drill, drill.


  363. Double standard? Not from this view. If a late night comic (whose trade is Making Jokes, albeit bad ones) has to apologize, then this political activist definitely needs to make one – and not some half-assed “if anyone was offended, geeeewhiz I guess I’m sorry. . . ” Here’s the standard – David letterman makes jokes. That’s his JOB. Are his jokes always funny? No. Personally I’d rather listen to a kazoo band than to Letterman (or Dennis Miller who wasn’t funny on SNL). But oh no. You’ll actually defend this racist twerp who actually spews this crap? C’mon UAW, you’re a better person than that, – at least I hope you are.


  364. James, a farmer, are you? Bet you grow corn, corn, corn, and lots of corn.

    Now James, my comments weren’t addressed to your points. If they were, I would have said as much. As I just did.

    My comments were addressed to those unnamed voters you just now mentioned, the ones who don’t realize how socialistic our country has become, but who trot out that word “socialist” like it’s some new sort of new terrorism, parroting their favorite wingnut pundit. These aren’t the folks who get to stay rugged individualists because they live in a rural area. They don’t clear their own roads or depend on volunteer firefighters and grow and shoot their own food. Most of them live in comfy ‘burbs, eat a lot of take-out, and don’t read much past the latest issue of People. They don’t think much on their own, but use their mouths plenty. Such are difficult to respect, so dumbass parrots they are. Oh, and the name’s Lordy — not Lady. As in: Lordy, when will some men stop telling women to be “ladies” in order to shut them up?


  365. There were so many jokes made by others that were just as stupid but Palin needs attention so she called out Dave on this one.

    It is attention getting behavior by Palin – No More, No Less.


  366. Just a very minute musing. . . but if Palin is such a staunch advocate for women (or is it just underage pregger girls?), and if Todd is so quick to defend his daughter’s honor, then how come they aren’t complaining as loudly about the remark “Slutty flight attendant”? I mean, that was a direct slam, make no mistake about it, joke. . . whereas the whole kid thing, while in bad bad taste, seemed more a comment on A-Rod than anything. . . .but that’s my own take. So maybe truth really is said in jest. . . . 🙂


  367. graydog…
    And so UAW, where’s your outrage over this joke?
    Or is it just sexual jokes against young girls that raise your ire?
    the guy deserves to be bitch slapped…..
    bad joke…OK….
    but what’s the difference?????OH….one joke is about an R so it’s OK….either be pissed about both or neither….not one and one….
    double standard again….


  368. PalinShutUp: The Right Wing crowd do not need facts. What I find interesting is how the Bush Years cannot be factored into the problems which we currently facing, in their small minds.

    Two wars started by Cheney/ Bush. The economy is a wreck because of Cheney/ Bush. The constitution is in tatters because of Cheney/ Bush but they choose to ignore whata had occurred for 8 years.

    Palin is a sick joke. Letterman made a dumb joke and has been doing it for 30 years. Palin needs attention and will make sure she gets it, this is just the latest installment in Palin Needs Attention.


  369. that’s right JuneauJoe, not even close, they tell themselves that palin has ‘intelligence, support…’ that is what they want us to believe, this is how they are beginning their little campaign for palin, for when she tries running again

    this ‘james’ person is only here to continue spreading the lies from right wing blogs against Obama cloaking them with flowery compliments for him so that some of us dont see what a troll he/she really are, Ive met him/her before and so have you

    dont you wonder why none of them have been able to dispute the FACTS I posted yesterday? that’s because they probably didnt even read the link I provided, in other words their minds are closed to anything other than what they are preaching and they come to create dissent and division

    obtuse my ass james, I see all of you for what you are and you cant handle it


  370. I should have said:

    Palin is a cheerleader for the Right Wing Zealots who have guns and are looking for an excuse to use them.


  371. PalinShutUp: You are correct. Obama cannot be compared to Drill Baby Drill – Palin. Palin is a cheerleader for the zealots who have guns and are looking for a reason to use them.


  372. palin wishes she had the intelligence and the amount of Obama’s supporters

    apples and oranges james, not even close


  373. Hey james, you forgot the one about Obama not writing his own book. lol.


  374. greytdog, JuneauJoe…and the rest of the regulars who have the patience (and time) to sit behind your monitors and counter them point by point with the facts, I thank you, but to me they are the same trolls (check the ip image for one) who’ve been trolling this blog from the beginning


  375. PalinShutUp, fools and children resort to name calling. Which are you, you blind little lemming?

    Polls like weather forecasts and economic projections are imperfect, but they are the best tools we have.

    Juneau Joe, I have no idea why the Palins didn’t complain about those jokes. They don’t seem so much worse than Letterman’s joke to me. Someone should ask the Governor.

    Maybe Letterman was just the last straw. His joke came right after Playboy’s web site list of doable conservative women. Maybe Sarah decided to re- open the cultural war. The Palins seem inconsistent though it was still a bad joke. Now that he has applogised, the Palins should accept it and move on.

    Poolman, I agree about Obama’s being a good politician and the rest you wrote. To call him a politician is no more derogatory name calling than to call me a farmer. It is his occupation. He also tells his audience what it wants to hear. For example, during the campaign Obama told an Arab-American audience one thing and said something entirely different to a Jewish audience.

    Obama is one of our best political speakers, but he makes mistakes like the rest of us. I heard him lose his train of thought while answering a question in Council Bluffs. He lapsed into stammers. No one I heard reported it.

    At least one actor, Tom Hanks, I think, coached Obama on presentation before the election. He was already a good speaker, and presumably Hanks or whomever made him even better.

    I also think Obama is sincere, and he has been open about his plans to turn the United States into a European socialist state. Most of the press just didn’t pay attention or report it. His administration has been less than open about how some spending plans have been implemented. He has also lied. It is part of the job.

    His administration through Joe Biden admitted the stimulus plan has not worked, yet. They rushed spending bills through so fast no one had time to read most of them.

    I like Obama as a person, and I like his conciliatory nature as long as he follows TR.’s advice to speak softly and carry a big stick. I like how he is following many of Bush’s war policies. I also like how he suggested spending less Medicare and Medicade money in states like Florida and those on the east coast and spending more in states like Iowa and Nebraska. I agree with his not wanting to limit medical settlements.

    The main thing I don’t like about Obama is his plan to spend so much money when we can’t afford it. His administration projections are overly optimistic as Joe Biden’s admission illustrates. Higher taxes are coming.

    LadyOhmygosh, your writing “dumb ass parrots” is angry and disrespectful. You missed my point. Please take an anger management class before you harm yourself or others. Please. We live under a combination of socialism and capitalism. It has made us one of the world’s most dynamic economies. European type economies tend to be more sluggish than ours.

    As a farmer, I have lived under socialism via the farm programs through my career. While I am old enough for Social Security, I don’t collect checks, and I don’t use Medicare. I will when the government says I must at age 70. Volunteer fire departments fight our rural fires, and we pay some of their expenses with fund raisers and contributions. When the county couldn’t afford to plow snow from our road last winter, we did it ourselves.

    When I wrote the news media glossed over Obama’s socialistic tendencies, I intended to show not that he was horrible, but that story would have turned some voters against Obama since most don’t realize how socialized we already are. Is that clear enough for you LadyOhmygosh?

    Sarah Palin has a large following as Obama does. Many of her supporters are as enthusiastic about her as others are about Obama. Like Obama’s fans, they will desert her if she disappoints them. Others are as obtuse as PalinShutUP and will not be dissuaded by reality.

    I agree, Palin does need several years to a decade to focus her thoughts and to build gravitas. No disrespect intended, but I see Palin as a grass fire which may be extinguished, but which if the wind turns will consume a field.

    Time will tell about many of these issues.

    Thanks juneauJoeA, Poolman, lori, and anyone I missed for such a good discussion. greytdog, I wish I could help.


  376. Oh and in the midst of all that’s happening here at home, I even managed to sneak time in to make a Grasshopper Pie with Chocolate Graham Crust. . . yummy. . . it’s almost gone now. sigh


  377. please stop pissing on my leg telling me its raining


  378. There were a lot of interesting answers here on the M&H blog as well.

    James doesn’t come even come close to troll behavior, and UAW – if he’s a troll then the criterion should be applied to everyone here – not just those who are right of center.


  379. Oh, and Andrew also addresses the question:
    “Where do thinking people get their news?”

    Interesting answer.


  380. Try and remember one thing, even if the nuances of blog commentary are hard to pin down – don’t get personal. It’s really that simple.

    But go ahead and put me on your watch list of trolls, PSU.


  381. Personally speaking, I’ve never regarding James as troll. and IMO, UAW may be a cretin at times (i believe I’ve referred to UAW as that on occasion. . . heheheh)and while I rarely if ever agree with what UAW writes, I think his voice is important to the discussion here. Same with James. Keeps our synapses snapping, ya know?
    Thanks Sherri for the nod – but we’re a microspeck in the realm of things – we’re just maintaining proxy portals & trying to keep them up when they come under attack. Luckily SO is versed in all of this and my wonderful cuz in intel security is coaching us through the various coding and stuff. . . but the big kudos here in the West should go to The Lede/NYTimes, HuffPo’s Nico Pitney, and without fail, Andrew Sullivan & his amazing crew at The Daily Dish. Sullivan has an excellent post right now with video. (note – it’s a very disturbing video but essential for the world to see) 4th post down on page – The Face of Fascism


  382. ‘People who post dissenting opinions are not trolls, PSU. However, people who flame other posters ARE.’

    dissenting opinions? give me a break, these people are not here to discuss anything they only come to this blog to inject their lies as fact

    in other words TROLLS

    I call em as I see em

    ‘By: Fluxux on June 11, 2009
    at 1:52 PM

    “Why any thinking person tunes into Fox News is beyond me. Oh wait – thinking people don’t.” Darlene

    Where do thinking people get their news, Darlene?’


    end of story.


  383. “james you are just one of many who went around during the election peddling the same lies and conspiracies that were injected into every blog on the web during the election attempting to discredit Obama

    take your cheap carpet bag and crawl back under your rock with the other troll” -PalinShutUp

    People who post dissenting opinions are not trolls, PSU. However, people who flame other posters ARE.


  384. greytdog…thank you for keeping the lines of communication open for those in Iran who are trying to let the world know what is happening! And thank you for the frequent updates here — I feel confident you’re providing us with reliable information. You’re doing good work!


  385. News sporadic from iran, internet and twitter proxies being shut down. . . last full feed lists total dead
    5 students, 2 females/3 males, dead during militia invasion @ Shiraz University, many faculty members in prison, some in hiding
    1 killed during post-mousavi rally, more wounded, status unknown at this time
    5 more killed in confrontations with militia – denied access to hospitals & medical care. Hospitals patrolled by militia
    Imperial Council to review Mousavi request but will NOT annul election results –

    Time to hit the road – vet appts and writing calls


  386. 6) “According to expense reports, Sarah Palin charged the state of Alaska over $21,000 for her children to travel with her on official business. In fairness to Gov. Palin, when she leaves them home alone they get pregnant.” –Seth Meyers (SNL). Sarah Palin was in a sketch with Meyers a week earlier.

    5) On October 8, 2008, Sarah Palin walked out on the ice with six year old Piper and 13 year old Willow, before the game, Conan O’Brien said, “Saturday night, Sarah Palin is going to drop the first puck at the Philadelphia Flyers’ hockey game. Then Palin will spend the rest of the game trying to keep the hockey players out of her daughter’s penalty box.”
    Oh, yes he did. You get the outrage…but not a peep then. According to the new “logic”, O’Brien was advocating for some really sick stuff.

    4) Rush Limbaugh: “Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?” Limbaugh put up a picture of Chelsea Clinton. At the time, Chelsea Clinton was 13 years old. Rush also said, “In last year’s campaign, the most prominent, articulate voice for standard run-of-the-mill good old-fashioned American conservatism was Sarah Palin.” Calling a young teenager a “dog” can’t be helpful to her “self-esteem.” Where is the apology from the leader of the GOP?

    From Shannyn Moore: Just a girl from Homer


  387. Now I am even more convinced, greytdog. All your efforts at convincing the stepson to a self-motivated activity have failed. Well, the banjo may be gaining ground. He wants to be noticed. Maybe with your lessons, you can start talking about music?


  388. from
    by AK Muckraker
    Sexism and Free Market Comedy.06.15.09

    “The problem is wider than the Palin family. This Sunday, for instance, longtime South Carolina Republican activist Rusty DePass seemed was caught making a racist joke on his Facebook page about First Lady Michelle Obama.

    Over the weekend, a gorilla escaped from a zoo in Columbia, and according to the New York Daily News, DePass just couldn’t resist what he saw as the perfect opportunity for humor, updating his status message to read,

    “I’m sure it’s just one of Michelle’s ancestors – probably harmless.”

    Apparently, not only is DePass fond of racist humor, he also doesn’t think too highly of evolution, either. One can tell a lot about a person from the apology he or she issues following an off-color joke, and on this score DePass seemed intent digging his hole a bit deeper.

    …DePass told WIS-TV in Columbia, “I am as sorry as I can be if I offended anyone. The comment was clearly in jest.”

    Not funny. I wonder which of the newly activated Palin feminists will be starting the letter writing campaign, or picketing the office of Rusty DePass? I wonder how much coverage this will get? The world seems to be listening pretty closely to what Governor Palin thinks about tasteless jokes aimed at women. ”

    And so UAW, where’s your outrage over this joke?
    Or is it just sexual jokes against young girls that raise your ire?


  389. mornin’ all, a bit bleary from pulling an all nighter. . . but Jean thanks for the suggestion. We’ve tried that. Let’s see. . . first it was piano but he refused to practice and felt he knew more than the teacher (age 11) and ended up being asked to leave after he cussed her out. . . then it was onto guitar. . . that was dropped when his plans for a garage band was derailed with his first run in with the law. . .then it was drums which actually lasted a while until his 2nd or 3rd run in with the law/school (possession w/intent to distribute) and he failed to make the drumline (again wouldn’t practice, and when he didn’t make drumline it was because the band director was out to get him). lately it’s been the banjo – announced he wanted to learn cuz he wants to be famous like Rascal Flatts. . .and during his latest suspension all he did was play banjo. . .we’ll see. But I figure we must have spent several thousands of $$ on instruments and lessons in the last 5 years. . . And I’ve actually started lessons again myself – after a 15 year hiatus finally got myself a Yamaha Clavinova. . . I’m going to try your pencil exercise too – my hands are older and more arthritic than when I left music . . .and I move between ‘puter keyboard to the Yamaha keyboard (in fact one person told me once that I typed like I was playing piano. . .)


  390. Hi Greytdog,

    I’ve been thinking about your stepson. Here’s a thought you might want to consider. Is he interested in music? Most 15 year olds are, especially in contemporary popular music.
    A guy can learn three chords on the guitar. (There are 156 chords.) He can let his hair grow, get an amplifier, yell and wiggle and he could become the next Elvis!

    Seriously, you have said your stepson is very, very smart. It sounds to me like he needs something complex that is his very own, can get his teeth into and control. Music might be a natural for him. It is about 85% mental. He already knows how to ‘play’ the computer keyboard, quite accurately, I might add.

    Here’s my idea. I could introduce him to the basics right here. One on one. The fundamentals of reading music are the same for any instrument. If he is intrigued, I could send a weekly update and he could learn it on his own. All he needs for now is his ten fingers, a stubby pencil about four inches long and a tabletop. Later he could choose whatever instrument he wishes. Quite a bit later.

    I have played the piano, organ, violin, bassoon, all the percussion instruments and have helped one of my grandsons with the guitar. (Much more than just those three chords!!!)

    For openers, the body has to be very relaxed, starting with the shoulders, down through the upper arms, forearms, wrists, hands and fingers. When you want to play fast, you have to be able to move all those parts quickly. You can’t do that if any part is stiff and straight. And of course, eye-hand coordination is essential.

    The correct position for the fingers to play any instrument is CURVED. Place all five curved fingers on the tabletop with the pencil balanced on the top of the hand, first right then left. Not allowing the wrist to rest on the edge of the tabletop and keeping the fingertips on the table, ‘play’ (tap) the tabletop, one finger at a time five times without losing the pencil. It is tough! Especially the fourth finger next to the ‘pinkie’. The pencil has to be retrieved from the floor any number of times until the technique is mastered.

    To play a keyboard, usually there are 88 keys. We only have ten fingers. So there is a trick to being able to play any key or combination of keys at a time anywhere on the keyboard – fast!

    Let me know if you can generate any interest there.


    Auntie Jean


  391. Palin and Dave: Palin was not upset about these.

    10) Last September, a skit on Saturday Night Live suggested incest in the Palin family. “What about the husband?” asked a mock Times reporter. “You know he’s doing those daughters. I mean, come on. It’s Alaska!” No outrage. Sarah Palin appeared on the show one month later in late October.

    9) Days after the announcement of Bristol’s pregnancy, Conan O’Brien joked, “It’s true, John McCain’s running mate, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, has revealed that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant. Palin said, ‘We should never have introduced her to John Edwards.’” Where was the outrage? Was Conan promoting infidelity with an underage girl?

    8 ) From two different Tonight Shows: “Governor Palin announced over the weekend that her 17-year-old unmarried daughter is five months pregnant. Oh, boy, you thought John Edwards was in trouble before, now he’s really done it!” AND…“All the Republicans are heaping praise on Governor Palin. Fred Thompson said, as an actor, he could see them making a movie about Sarah Palin and her family. Didn’t they already make that movie? I think it was called ‘Knocked Up!’”–Jay Leno

    7) Craig Ferguson’s skit of “Larry King vs Levi Johnston” asks about “kinky sex” with the drapes open. Craig Ferguson’s honorary Alaska citizenship, granted by Governor Palin wasn’t rescinded.

    from: Shanyn Moore: A girl from Homer – blog


  392. “Socialism, socialism, socialism.” A bit of well-placed socialism is not necessarily the end of American democracy as we know it. What would you call social security? (You may claim to hate it, but I don’t see any of you turning down your checks. You’re damn right, you paid into it, you deserve it. Good thing, too, what with the state of your “free market” Visa bill.) And what about those fine roads you drive on? Would you prefer instead to not to pay your taxes and waive your right to drive on those roads? Didn’t think so. What about that firefighter who just kept your house from burning to the ground? I don’t see anyone paying that brave individual directly out of their pocket for that service. Is there an insurance policy big enough to cover your fat asses when mother nature has a really bad mood or it’s your turn to have some terrible luck? No, there is not. Do you really want to live in a culture where only the rich people’s kids get to go to school or get a life-saving operation? If so, you should have been born in the middle ages, my friend. Now, unless you live like a hermit at the top of your own mountain, I’d suggest you suck it up and pay into the great system we all SHARE, and while you’re at it, learn the difference between socialism and totalitarianism. Dumbass parrots.

    Speaking of, “When fascism comes to America, it’ll be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” Some of you are worried about the wrong stuff, seems to me.


  393. Hi gang,

    Sigh. Instead of giving another history lesson, I’m gonna have to find time to do my piece on ‘Statistics’. Those of you who love to go around quoting ‘polls’ as ‘facts’ might want to listen up and learn something. Then you might, just, might, not be so loose with YOUR personal spin on the ‘facts’. Well, probably not.




  394. James,
    Obama really came into the spotlight in 2004 at the Democratic Primary. This was really Hillary’s shoe-in year after Bush’s debacle, except for Barack. He ran a much smarter campaign. He is a very charismatic speaker and has a very calming demeanor. He is Bold and Reserved. He speaks intelligibly. He does not speak above us. He would rather gain friends (even if they have opposing views), rather than make enemies. He is wise enough to want to know his enemies. If that makes him a politician, so be it. We are the ones that need to label. I think we should be concerned more with the intent. Remember, there are a lot of different people here at this table with a lot of different ideas of how this thing we call life is supposed to work and sustain us all and our kids and their kids and their kids…..

    But Is Obama perfect? No way. Is he trying? I think he is. I think he is sincere. That has to be an exceptional position to be in. How much can actually be done to change the status quo. It has been growing since its inception and has become a huge machine that contains so much baggage and parts, buildings and people, property and land, and on and on and on. It has to be a daunting task, to say the least. IMO he relies on a lot of advisors and different perspectives. Now that he is on the “inside” I’m sure the pathways in government are traveled differently.

    IMO some things would need putting on the back burner while others require more investigation and some zones could be taboo, or at least very dangerous with no desire to submit to any authority. Although I feel Obama is providing a much more open administration than any in the past, we still only see the surface. I think we are impatient. We want an instant fix. Much is screwed-up. As you say, give it time.

    I don’t see or feel the sincerity with Sarah. She does not have the character or depth of conviction, IMO. That is my read. She doesn’t do her homework and has gotten by with her looks since school. That is my take. Yeah she has an appeal, but after the honeymoon, what is there? I think she will need to seriously polish that act before she would even be considered a contender. In her short career, she has alienated many. This alone makes a weaker candidate.


  395. james you are just one of many who went around during the election peddling the same lies and conspiracies that were injected into every blog on the web during the election attempting to discredit Obama

    take your cheap carpet bag and crawl back under your rock with the other troll


  396. Wow! I would say some deep discussions are going on on this blog! Hope all is clear now! Lori, you must be exhausted! LOL!


  397. lori, some are on the same wavelength and some aren’t. A Democratic e friend told me if I was in Tenn, my beliefs would better fit moderate to conservative Democrats. I vote for many Democats as it is.

    Single issues can attract people who have similar values and different ideologies. I’m not thinking of the present for which you are right. I am thinking of future changed circumstances. Remember the Reagan Democrats who helped defeat Carter. Even farther back, FDR attracted a number of Republicans.

    Poolman, Obama and Palin are undeniably the most charismatic national politicians active today. That is fact. Both are smart, and are polarizing figures. Both have unusual personal stories, and they made themselves through talent and hard work. Unlike many politicians, they rose from modest circumstances. I predict future historians will will note the similarities.

    Name a Democrat and a Republican who can attract the crowds and press attention as those two.

    The nightly news reporters I watched did not mention the long term connections between Tony Rezco and Barrack Obama. The networks represented it as a casual and brief relationship. They have known each other since before Obama entered law school. Obama worked for a company which did legal work for Rezco. In 2003, Rezco threw a fund raiser which the Chicago Tribune reported raised enough cash for seed money when Obama ran for Senate. Rezco sold Obama his house at a reduced price. The press could have made much more of this.

    Saul Alinsky was a major influence in Obama’s early life, and he was hardly mentioned. His influence was predictive of Obamas’ leftist ideology and socialist leanings. Obama has not surprised me because I read part of Alinsky’s and Obama’s books. Obama also declared himself a socialist in a small pamphlet at the time.

    Stanley Kurtz researched Obama’s work with the Annenburg Challenge and showed the unwitting contribution ACORN made to the banking melt down. He also showed Obama’s close connections and the help he gave them.

    The press downplayed the Obama’s relation ship with the Ayres family. Obama was not telling the truth when he said William Ayres was just a man who lived in the neighborhood. Reporters also said little about what Ayres’ wing of the Weather Underground or Weathermen did.

    I didn’t hear the network news tell about Obama’s “Gazebo to Nowhere.” They mostly ignored Obama’s failure to improve conditions in a housing project when he was a community organizer. The press didn’t share that Obama exagerated his rank and importance in a Wall Street job.

    The press refused to report on the Rev Wright and his beliefs until bloggers and others made it public. Even then, only a few of the minister’s more colorful statements were aired. Few questioned why Obama sat through such sermons for twenty years.

    After Obama was elected to the legislature and favored a bill helping the hospital where Michele worked, she got a large raise.

    The mainstream media glossed over Obama’s Muslim connections, as did he. He explained his connections when he made his Cairo speech.

    Obama also has relatives who are Muslims and others who are not. Some live in poverty, and as far as we know, he has done little to help them.

    The New York Times wrote of Cyndy McCain’s past addiction to pain killers, but there was no similar expose of Obama’s past drug use.

    The press soft peddled Obama’s failing to fight the Chicago establishment. He basically went along. They didn’t often repeat Obama’s allegedly taking credit for others’ bills in the Illinois legislature to give him a better record.

    The media said little about Obama’s tendency to follow Bush’s Iraq and Afghanistan policies. Those of us who paid attention knew Obama would continue Bush’s policies.

    The press also down played the Democratic contribution to the banking crisis. Saturday Night Live did an accurate skit naming the principals and it was laundered before the weekend was over.

    Not one of these facts is immoral or illegal as far as I know, and Obama revealed some of them in his book. However, had the press pounced on the information as they did Palin’s background, voters would have seen Obama in a different light. The image might not have been true, but it would have been uncomplementary. Imagine for example, how many voters would be turned off if the New York Times pinned the label “socialist” on him.

    He talked out of both sides of his mouth and people saw in him what they wanted to see. That is because Obama is a gifted politician and politicians are ego driven. They care mostly for themselves and their agendas. We come in third.

    I agree the Republicans probably didn’t properly vet Sarah Palin. Scores of reporters who flocked to Alaska made up for it. She has a problem with some Republicans in part due to ideology and culture. Palin comes from a culture alien to many politicians like Newt who is more moderate.


  398. About 9 years ago a fire caused me to live at my brother’s house and he for some insane reason loved to watch Fox News. I used to call it “Screaming heads” as that seemed to be all they did, scream at each other.

    Bill O’Reilly has a big mouth and no brain. One year his rantings caused a small rural school district to cancel their winter holiday program as he took exception to any one using the music of Silent Night with different words–talk about a Grinch! (Of course that is probably an insult to the Grinch).


  399. ‘You are probably okay with all the conspiracy theories then.’

    you betcha!

    didnt you notice the ‘new world order’ statement earlier?


  400. umm, “what the heck” IS polite,,, I stand by it


  401. Posing for Playboy was not part of her job and is actually not allowed as a Miss California. That is bogus. The gay movie bit-bogus. She already had some risque pictures posted online that almost cost her job.

    Letterman is Independent, so that means he may vote republican or democratic or libertarian, or…

    I don’t owe for your office calls, only mine.

    By your account then from everything Obama words, Bush’s words, Clinton’s words, Reagan’s word, all lies? You are probably okay with all the conspiracy theories then.


  402. ‘PalinShutUp….
    your actually trying to push something written by the dems in congress’

    really? How come I knew that was going to be your response?

    then if what I posted is BS prove the facts I presented wrong

    otherwise you have just proven to me you are just another troll and no one should give you the time of day, I know I wont

    JuneauJoe, you are most welcome and I agree with you, I think this fella just loves talking to himself, just seeing how he keeps going on and on about Letterman and how ‘Todd would love to stomp on him’

    twilight zone


  403. <<<won't be watching Letterman tonight because I will likely not be AWAKE (neither "awed" nor "weak" nor any other typo you can anagram from that)….

    On another note: I made a key-lime pie tonight! wicked good…. any takers?



  404. poolman…
    it’s nice to know that some people have their own thoughts instead of spewing the babble fed to them by the far left…. sorry about you….I’ve got SCIFI to watch now….BYE


  405. poolman….
    what facts…Facts say she was fired for not doing her job and nothing to do with her beliefs regarding marriage or even her bumbling that question. not posing for a Playboy centerfold or going to a gay movie incognito….WTF
    as far as Letterman being an Ind…Demmocraddict said he was a Rep and I asked for links…I don’t need links to know that he’s an asshat(asshole)
    I’m glad your working but they don’t pay anything for my office calls…
    and the last time any president told the truth was when Nixon held up his “victory” fingers and said I’m going to f*ck everybody(price controls and wage controls)…the rest have been lying about it….Obama blasted McCain about taxing health care benefits and it was a loosing point for McCain but guess what….Obama’s trying to talk the Dems into taxing health care benefits…..NO taxes for those making under $250,000(unless you smoke,drink beer,drink pop,have health care,etc)


  406. months


  407. This Sarah/Dave thing is going to boost Dave’s ratings for sure. Especially if it keeps dragging out. He should do a Palin joke every few moths to stay on top. I beginning to think it’s brilliant.


  408. James, you think this person holds equal standing with Obama. And this is a RW site my mom refers to:


  409. Sarah is a joke.

    The whole Sarah – Dave issue is bogus, which is not going to win Sarah any votes. Forgot – Sarah is playing to the shrinking Republican base and UAW.


  410. Nope not slamming the right – slamming the premise that the feud between Letterman/Palin warrants this much coverage either on the cable chatter or blog chatter. It’s stupid.


  411. graydog…
    your still slamming the right…”One’s an entertainer, the other is ???” how about Letterman’s a piece of shit and Sarah’s a mother trying to protect her daughter?????
    and don’t ever think Todd wouldn’t like to stomp on Letterman for a while


  412. UAW,

    “proved me wrong where…?”

    In this post regarding Carrie Prejean: Facts say she was fired for not doing her job and nothing to do with her beliefs regarding marriage or even her bumbling that question.

    “what you don’t understand is that Letterman is a way left flaming liberal…” Letterman is a registered Independent.

    “if you break the law you go to jail….” Unless you are Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld.

    “if your an asshole someone should bitch slap you…” That’s got to be a joke. HA HA. Is this another black milk revelation?

    “if you’ve never had a job(and can’t pay for it) you don’t deserve a Lexus…” No argument there. I agree 100%. I’ve held a job since I was 14, never owned a Lexus. Several Toyotas though.

    “I pay for my office calls…..” No argument there, so do I, and in cash. They give you quite a discount if you do, usually 75%.

    “we’re only going to raise taxes on those making over $250,000” True, Obama is not going to extend the tax break that Bush put in place, so it only reverts back to what it was.

    “….the right don’t have enough money to cover what the left want’s…” The right are not the only employed here as you seem to think. As a matter of fact, most of those I know getting unemployment right now lean right.

    And something I’ve wondered…..If you are pro union, how can you be republican? I thought republicans were anti-union. Opps, there I go using the broad brush…


  413. UAW: Speak of babble – talking to yourself must be quite entertaining. Repeating Rush, Cheney Palin noise makes one crazy.

    Greytdog: Like your look on the Palin/ Dave issue.

    I kind of think of Palin as a fungus.


  414. Quick pop in: Palin/Letterman feud is just that – a feud. hatfield and mccoy. tempest in a tea-cup. An A-cup boob trying to wear a DD. Stupid is as stupid does. And not important in the scheme of life. Simply not. One’s an entertainer, the other is ??? whatever you want her to be. . .
    I’d rather talk about toe fungus. . .


  415. Ok James, I’ll be willing to admit that 40 percent of the people answering the poll said they were conservative… IF you are willing to admit 22 percent of the people who voted democrat and are registered democrat are conservative.
    Why you ask? Wellllllllllllllllllll 22 percent of the democrat answering that poll said they were “conservative” and voted democrat… While 76 percent of the republicans answering that poll also said they were conservative, zero reffered to them selves as liberal. You see my point? You can be a conservative democrat or a conservative republican….. Do YOU think they are on the same wave length ideologically?


  416. jueneujo…
    it’s nice to see that someone on the far left can totally loose it an just start repeating endless babble


  417. jueneujoe…
    I don’t know about you but I bought my first condoms at the gas station…..hell I then saw them for sale in the mens bathroom…..when I cleaned the Intramural building when I tried colage they even had Tampax in the women’s….and I had to unplug toilets while I was there….whe’re a long way from tying a knot in the end of some sheep casing like they did in Victoria England….don’t even try to tell me that we’ve dumbed down that much


  418. Like

  419. UAW: I forgot: You and your ilk only like to fund NEEDLESS WARS, like Iraq.

    You also insist upon health care for yourself and your wife but you would begrudge that for the average person. Preventive medicine, including contraception, should be reasonably priced because it saves money. Those kids cost money to raise.

    Forgot: We need the kids to fight in wars which some Neo-Con starts. The Neo-Con will make sure that his kids do not fight in the war however.

    PalinShutUp: Thanks for the link! Great Stuff!
    Palin is a hypocitical idiot! Just my impression after watching her rule her kingdom for a couple of years.


  420. PalinShutUp….
    your actually trying to push something written by the dems in congress….Harry’Reid????WTF….Gas prices went from $2.50 to over $4.00 when dems took over congress…..the economy tanked when they figured out a dem was going to get elected….pull your head out…


  421. UAW: I was a white teacher in the village and I had my ‘rubbers’ taken care of from the city – No Problem for me.

    The issue of contraception is for the villagers. I had the means to pay $300.00 one way to get to the city but the villagers do not.

    High School kids, 20 year olds had no contraception (cost prohibitive) and lots of kids were born of you folks and old folks alike. 10 kids in a family were common and then there was o fish. The Kings were taken a by- catch so the villagers starved.

    UAW: Try paying $8.00 a fallon for gas and heating oil, which is the norm for the Lower Yukon villages.

    Palin lets her people starve – true statement and she is big on having kids. I could also talk about the foster child situation, which is a mess and impacting kids in Alaska.


  422. the document was moved to here

    after you are done please be so kind as to provide back up for your argument


  423. HA HA HA


  424. oh what the heck

    I told you, I dont provide blogs as concrete proof of anything

    btw, the figures on the following document are from more than 2 years ago, BEFORE the dems were in control of the house, you know, the same Dems that you and folks like you blame for the economy today?

    now, put down your blinders and read

    Middle-Class Life Under Bush Republicans: Less Affordable and Less Secure


  425. Maven….
    you were being polite when you said heck


  426. trademan, show me yours, I will show you mine


  427. (admit to going totally in the out-field topic-wise here)
    We seem to spend a lot of money on a man’s “part” when it doesn’t work anymore instead of a little bit of money when it, um, DOES.
    [I just KNOW I should have the good judgment to backspace that, but, what the heck… it’s a JOKE folks….]


  428. Maven….
    google….TNSTAAFL….it shows up


  429. JuneauJoe….
    why can’t they buy their own rubbers like I had to do………I think the big problem is BUY….


  430. funny tradesman,,,
    (But you’re mixing your home keys with the other rows,,, and starting to look a LOT like colorful,,, better watch it!) Δ


  431. Maven….


  432. Fluxus: #

    “Many HS girls end up pregnant in Palin’s Alaska, because they are not taught about sexual issues and they cannot afford contraception.” -JuneauJoe

    This is simply absurd. YOU

    It is simply absurd but true. Ask Palin about the availability of cotraceptives in the villages? Is it covered with health insurance? You will get an absurd answer.


  433. PalinShutUp….
    show me the numbers….I won’t accept anything from huffpo tho because I linked to there once and was bitched at because i didn’t research it enough


  434. right…. instead of Letterman, practice typing… Repeat after me “ASDF, ASDF, SDSD, AFAF,”


  435. I meant awake


  436. Tradesman… Easy enough, kiddo,,, David’s on CBS. Don’t tune in.


  437. graydog…
    hope I can stay away for Lettermans apology….wonder how many people will be laughing while he does this one…


  438. My low-tech solution when teenaged kids could not be trusted on the Internet:

    I took the Ethernet cord (or the modem) with me to work every day…. (I’ll admit, my offspring weren’t very tech savvy). Came home one day after about a week of doing this and one of them finally said, Gee, mom, I think something’s *wrong* with our computer.

    The best “Now You Know What I Dealt With” moment came when my son was recently working with a bunch of high schoolers as film extras. He stopped by after a long day of shooting and the first words out of his mouth were, “Was I really difficult in HS?” I, of course, assured him that he was….

    hang in there greyt.



  439. ‘Your pissed because of Sarah faith…’

    contraire, Im pissed because palin wants to shove her beliefs down my throat I couldnt give a flying rat’s ass what her beliefs are

    about Letterman, you have a choice to turn the channel, you dont have to watch him, no one is forcing you, but if palin were to get into office and she had her way we wouldnt have too many choices, you can bet on that

    and about who is responsible for this country’s economic climate TODAY, you seem to have a real short memory, I have the numbers to prove my point, do you?

    show me the proof and I dont mean figures from some backasswards blog, I mean solid proof

    BTW, Im curious, if you disagree with the theme of this blog and what this choir is preaching why have you been hanging around us so long?


  440. HoneyJoRumples ….
    if it was only a joke can I tell you some Polish jokes…or some jewish jokes…or some black jokes…or some irish jokes….ya Letterman’s a piece of shit…you like jokes…

    good thing their just jokes….


  441. This just came across twitter: Letterman has taped a rather lengthy apology to the Palin family. Apology to air tonight.

    Okay gotta go rest my eyes and spend time with pups! Will be up most of the night monitoring systems.


  442. “)…and I still think Todd should have gone on his show…took a half turn on his tie…and thumped him a couple of times….ever hear the phrase”payback is a motherf^cker”…..”

    First of all, such foul and disrespectful language, disrespectful not to Mr. Letterman, but to any and everyone here reading it, to my mind does nothing to help you state your case. And Todd thump him? LOL Please. Haven’t you noticed the leash and collar Sarah keeps him on? He’s too whipped to thump a cantaloupe.

    “I am more pissed by his”apology” than the joke itself…..Dave Letterman is a piece of shit ….I now put him lower than drug dealers,lawyers,and child molesters….”

    Wow. If you seriously, honestly think this guy who made one joke about a sexually irresponsible young woman who ended up a teenage single mother and then went to make a star out of herself by going on a nationwide “Do As I Say Not As I Did” tour and posing for the cover of People magazine, if you think he’s seriously worse than someone who would actually hook your child on drugs or someone who would actually lure your child to a secluded place and molest him/her, then I sincerely hope you never have to have anything like that touch your family because you probably couldn’t handle it. You obviously have no idea just how seriously horrible and heinous those things are if you think what David Letterman did was worse.


  443. graydog…
    did you see nom sequiter….. I think you’d like it


  444. graydog…
    I don’t think we’re actually that far apart…..I keep coming back to respond to right-bashers….I keep pushing the double standard thing…..I probably wouldn’t be here if all I wanted to do was agree with everyone else….
    RBF(random brain firings)…..bye


  445. graydog….


  446. poolman….
    what concepts….
    if you break the law you go to jail….
    if your an asshole someone should bitch slap you…
    if you’ve never had a job(and can’t pay for it) you don’t deserve a Lexus…
    I pay for my office calls…..I don’t go to emergency and dump the bill on the state…
    remember during the election when McCain talked about taxing health care benefits and Obama said it would never happen!!!!!
    we’re only going to raise taxes on those making over $250,000 but have you read the stuff on soda pop, beer, tobacco, taxes on services, state income taxes, California cutting out welfare……..there’s a lot of protesting out there…. there’s a lot of left people pissed also….the right don’t have enough money to cover what the left want’s…


  447. And I believe the working person is always more valuable than the executive who sits in the glass enclosed tower and his spouse who sits in Grosse Point.


  448. Actually UAW I really don’t like labels. “Flaming liberal” “flaming conservative” all sounds like Richard Pryor running down the street to me. I don’t like entitlements where people believe that because the Old World Order worked for them, it’s a keeper (see Pat Buchanan) and I don’t like folks who game the system for any reason. I know folks who come from money, graduated from great colleges with the type of degrees that land you in high paying jobs . . but then with the help of mumsie & poppy managed to finagle through the loopholes to get their “starter” homes through low-income assistance programs, lived on allowances from mumsie and poppy while using their “state” money to grow a huge marijuana drug dealing network. . .I know folks who refuse to pay back their student loans or to honor the agreements entered into in order to get those loans, despite the fact they now own a couple homes, are barely touched by the economic downturn, and work at very prestigious hospitals and law firms. But they ALL feel entitled – and that’s the crap I can’t stand. I look at these people and think about the students who really really NEED that student loan or need that assistance – only they can’t get it because they play by the rules and don’t game the system. I think people should be entitled to quality affordable healthcare, entitled to a fair wage for a fair day’s work, entitled to Social Security after paying into it for 30-40 years, entitled to their pensions instead of giving the money to some mucky-muck executive who saves the shareholders $$, and I firmly believe that all humans are entitled to certain unalienable rights – including the right to love and marry whomever they so choose.


  449. poolman…
    proved me wrong where….that Letterman’s not an asshole?????


  450. graydog…
    your not a flaming liberal because you complained about entitlements…..the flaming liberal think that you should pay for their drugs and food and their house and their camcorders for their life time……not if times get hard and you need a little help….I’m a union member….part of my wages went to Unemployment insurance(total wage package)I don’t have a problem with unemployment….I have a problem with people that never had a job expecting more than unemployment can give you….I also have a problem with the gov. getting rid of manufacturing jobs…..(Clinton-Gore…New World Order)……hang-on-to-your-ass people


  451. UAW maybe your kids are on to something.


  452. UAW, It gets kind of frustrating when we prove you wrong and you still default back to the same concepts.


  453. I was right and shifted to middle, though most right would like to peg me as left. I am independent and generally vote for the person, regardless of party affiliation.
    James you are wrong lumping Obama in their with Palin. No comparison. Obama is not all about himself. Additionally, he was well vetted. Many of the false accusations were never proved, if that is what you refer to as not well vetted. You really can’t find proof for imagined accusations.


  454. PalinShutUp…
    “angry desperate people better remember just who is responsible for putting this country in the condition that its in today”….Do you mean Carter,Clinton,Pelosi,Reid,Dodd and Obama…time will tell!!!!


  455. PalinShutUp…
    what you don’t understand is that Letterman is a way left flaming liberal and he’s pissed off a lot of people and people are getting pissed(a lot of pissing going on)about others making excuses for him….he thinks that since he’s a talk show host and and his “enemy” is gone he can do what he wants….well f^ch him…I can do the e-mail thing too….it’s not strictly a left thing e-mailing and talking about boycotting(where’s Leno when we need him)…and I still think Todd should have gone on his show…took a half turn on his tie…and thumped him a couple of times….ever hear the phrase”payback is a motherf^cker”…..I am more pissed by his”apology” than the joke itself…..Dave Letterman is a piece of shit ….I now put him lower than drug dealers,lawyers,and child molesters….Your pissed because of Sarah faith…I’m more pissed because Letterman’s just a Dick(head)


  456. The less attention we pay to Palin, the better. This kind of attention only plays to her strengths. The power player in the Repub. party right now is Newt. He is one of their big brains. He is a wily as Karl Rove.


  457. James “I mean as you write, he [Obama] wasn’t properly vetted.”

    James, with all due respect, this statement is balderdash. What is there about Pres. Obama that you do not know?

    How was Obama not vetted? How was he less examined than G. W. Bush?

    It seems to me that if a candidate was not properly vetted, it was Palin. There was loads of info on her and her family which were surprises to everyone, even the Repub.

    I think her time influence in her party is waning, except with rabid right wingers. She seems to rub her peers the wrong way.

    Newt is on the ascendancy. But I don’t think he can be a viable pres. candidate because there are too many ethical and moral lapses in his past. He doesn’t have a fit appearance, either, and people hold that against a candidate.

    I expect another Repub. candidate to emerge in the coming 12-18 months.


  458. “I once tried being a “centrist” – ended up gnawing off my leg.”

    Jim Hightower once said the only thing in the middle of the road is yellow lines and roadkill LOL!


  459. ‘Maybe Palin is white trash and maybe she is a horrible governor. It doesn’t matter because most Americans are not paying attention. All they know of her is some good speeches’

    is the public that stupid that they dont know she didnt write those speeches herself?

    will the public forget that she didnt answer one direct question thrown at her? that she ‘replied’ by throwing out one sound bite after another?


  460. UAW, make no mistake about it – I’m a flaming liberal through and through BUT I also believe that we earn our way through life just as we must earn respect, that we must give back something to our community, that basic human rights should never be abridged, and that tyranny of any form is still tyranny. I once tried being a “centrist” – ended up gnawing off my leg.


  461. angry desperate people better remember just who is responsible for putting this country in the condition that its in today

    about palin, if none of you are afraid of what she can do if she is in office I will be the first to admit that I am, I am sick and tired of religious zealots taking away my rights (I am a woman) and dictating, we have enough dictators in the world THANKYOUVERYMUCH


  462. James…
    Like the comment about a drought….I think Palin talks for the right but she’s going far enough right that she’s like Pam Anderson talking for the left….I don’t think she can overcome this hype…..What’s his name from Louisiana stepped in it(but the dem rep from L say”drill drill drill”)…..Maybe(phone range and after 5 min I don’t have a clue what I was going to say next)HA HA



    sorry for yelling but some people are just either too dumb, too blind or too far behind their walls but I guess I shouldnt be surprised, coming from you and all……


  464. graygog…
    It was a joke…..NOBODY wishes that on their children(we all want better for them)

    What I did find interesting is your complaints about entitlement(that’s a liberal thing)…..are you way more to the right(just a little left of center)than I thought from other posts????

    Most people move right as they get older(this would be great but you have to put a little something into it instead of “you owe me”)
    I’ve got two flaming(frigging)(I don’t know… it starts with an F)liberals for children and they tell me that I’m not as right as I think I am(course I know that) and their not as for left as they think…
    Read any Heinlien…..”Cat who walked through walls”…..TNSTAAFL…..THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH….


  465. greytdog, now is a good time to get that stepson talking. Keep listening and make no judgements aloud. He will come around.


  466. UAW TRADESMAN, I agree.

    Lori, I don’t mean ACORN and the others waged a conspiracy to elect Obama. I mean as you write, he wasn’t properly vetted. Had the press dwelt on Obama’s past and twisted it in an unflattering way as they did Palin’s past, he might have lost. Palin might have won had the press portrayed her differently.

    Most people still rely on the main stream media or internet sites with which they agree. Evan Thomas of Newsweek said proper media coverage is good for an extra ten or fifteen per cent in the polls.

    A new Gallop poll shows the conservatives are the single largest ideological group in the country. Moderates are also an important group. Some are Democrats; more are Republicans or independents. Rasmuson and other polls show Obama is more popular than his policies.

    As Biden admitted on Meet the Press, the administration and Democratic Congress miscalulated, and so far their attempt to create private sector jobs has failed. Biden said no one could have known how bad it would be. I knew as did most of the TEA Party protesters. Sarah Palin said “told you so” over the weekend. My eyes didn’t let me open the link, but I assume it related to economic bad news.

    If the news gets as bad as I expect it will, Sarah Palin or someone like her will look better than she does now. I wouldn’t vote for her, and even if she is a fool, all she needs is to portray herself as a maveric with different ideas and inspiring phrases while she bats her eyes. Perception begets reality.

    Angry, desperate people look for answers where they can find them. Excluding race, Obama is president because more voters than not wanted a change from Bush. If he over reaches and fails voters will look for another change.

    Demographics support Palin or someone like her if events transpire as I believe they will. If I am wrong, Obama has a good chance at a second term.

    Maybe Palin is white trash and maybe she is a horrible governor. It doesn’t matter because most Americans are not paying attention. All they know of her is some good speeches, Saturday Night Live and a few good and bad interviews. Many people’s perceptions of her are frozen, but a large number of voters are not emotionally attached or to her one way or the other. All she needs is for Obama’s economic policies to fail and for people to regard her as the alternative who was right whether she is or not.

    I suspect some Democrats and Republicans know this. Otherwise they would ignore her. Hating Palin or anyone else gives that person power over you.

    I stayed alive in the service and kept the farm running by looking for and preparing for potential threats. Consider Governor Palin the equivalent of a possible drought. A good farmer prepares for the eventuality, even if it is unlikely. I think it is what Palins’ political enemies are doing.


  467. UAW, I get your reasoning – although my parents never wished that on me. . . but my mom does like to point out that my corgi is exactly like me. . .which is weird (our ears aren’t at all the same!). We’re all a bit exhausted emotionally, vision-wise, and our hands are cramping like crazy. Stepson is off on a nap but his system is still filtering. . .I’ve had to step away for a few minutes just to catch my breath. SO is on another system in touch with networks in Germany & Sweden trying to keep portals open to Iranian students. . . keep good thoughts everyone – take care


  468. “Many HS girls end up pregnant in Palin’s Alaska, because they are not taught about sexual issues and they cannot afford contraception.” -JuneauJoe

    This is simply absurd.


  469. forgot the HA HA


  470. graydog…
    it’s good to see that your stepson is showing some emotion to this….(kinda like a kick in the pants)….I kept telling my Kids(I know I’m not supposed to call them KIDS—-there children) to repeat….”Would you like fries with that????”

    They both sold fries and worked other cash registers to make extra money(I wouldn’t pay for their beer)
    It was a good education for them but what (as a country)are we going to do when that is having a great job…
    and do you remember the curse your parents put on you to have children just like you….and that child rearing book(hit them with it a couple of times)


  471. Margaret and Helen, love your raves. Reminds me a little of our film, Courthouse Girls of Farmland, that features my mother and her bridge club friends who created a ruckus in Indiana. They were protesting a decision made by right wing Republicans who wanted to tear down the historic courthouse. They are 81 to 90 and going strong. They kick ass and do it with a good dollop of humor.


  472. lori ….
    I llke your post about Sarah Palin….
    what are the 30% of Dems and the 30% Reps going to do when the 40% Inds come up with a candidate????


  473. Palin:

    Hypocrite: What other politician for VP or President could boast of: Pregnant daughter while running for office while pushing abstinence only teaching? (I might also say that they have to pay for contraceptives in villages and there are many families with 10 kids) Many HS girls end up pregnant in Palin’s Alaska, because they are not taught about sexual issues and they cannot afford contraception.

    -Any other VP or Presidential candidate who took her kids out of school constantly to do the political circle jerk, would catch hell.

    Did you notice that the Obama kids were in school while parents were doing the political thing. Obama would have been tarred and feathered by the right wing if his children got pregnant or were constantly out of school to attend political events.

    Right wing nuts killing people at medical clinics or the holocaust museaum – TERRORISM!


  474. Oh – they should leave the REPUBLICAN politician’s 14 year old out of a joke…

    BUt it’s just DUCKY to make fun of a 13 year old DEMOCRATIC politician’s child, huh?


  475. Isn’t it ironic that when kids grab guns and shoot up their school or their neighbors or siblings, the “Conservative” media blame video games or Dungeons & Dragons etc. as the evil evil instigators of their behavior…

    But when someone decries the “Libruls” and shoots up a church, or a church, or a Holocaust museum… well it certainly isn’t their PUNDITS fault for making hate speeches about the evil, evil Libruls!

    Hypocracy, thy name is Fox.


  476. HoneyJoRuples…..

    At the end of the day, David Letterman’s show is David Letterman’s show, but as Jay Leno recently pointed out, by being overtly political either way, you alienate half of the country. As someone who has always been a fan of David Letterman, I have become more and more disappointed and yes, dare I say disgusted about his attitude toward Sarah Palin and her daughters. Is it too much to ask to leave a 14-year-old girl out of a late-night joke? Apparently in today’s media, yes it is, especially when it is the daughter of a Republican politician

    Someone else posted the link….even the link said double-standard


  477. There’s a lot to be said for the “white trash” moniker. But I still think of Palin primarily as a two-bit grifter who got way beyond lucky, and is going to see how far she can ride it.

    She’s not going away under her own steam – she’ll have to be dragged off kicking, screaming and winking the whole way. (No, no, you don’t understand! I’m the cute one! I know what God wants – me! I’m a maverick! How dare you! Noooo……) And then we’ll all have to count the silverware.

    Back to serious matters – I can’t imagine what the resolution for Iran will be, and there doesn’t seem to be anything we can do to affect it. There’s going to be a helluva of a body count. Our local Iranian exchange are having a peaceful demonstration in support and all I can think is “I hope they aren’t planning to go back before the administration changes, and maybe not even then).


  478. HoneyJoRumples….
    that what I get for reading anything from huffpo….
    don’t tell me I didn’t research…..tell huffpo


  479. James – you SO don’t know Palin! Bad press? She’s a bad politician, and stupid to boot. Savvy, mean, street smart, takes advantage of looks, YES! The press has only touched on her world class idiocy and incompetence – don’t give them that much credit. There’s a lot more where that came from – just talk to a few Alaskans who don’t need the MSM to know what a mean dolt she is.

    She has alienated liberals, conservatives and independents in our state because she is vindictive, selfish and a media whore. Many, many of us are more tired of her in more ways than you can imagine.

    Remember – if you listen to the MSM about stories that you are very familiar with (I’m sure this has happened), you realize there are all sorts of misconceptions, missing facts, etc. This has happened every time I hear a major news story in the news that I’m personally familiar with. It’s even more noticeable if even a home town paper writes YOU up for an accomplishment – they often leave so much out or misquote conversations that it’s kinda weird.

    This is the MSM and Palin – they haven’t a clue yet how bad she really is. Feign disgust, holler out about unfairness all you want – the conservatives need to find a real candidate because I can guarantee they will be quite shocked and surprised by her true nature if elected again to anything of importance. Believe me (I know you won’t) – she’s a bad apple. Has nothing to do with being a conservative – she’s just bad to the core.

    That’s OK – the conservatives never believe this because they so want a great candidate. I don’t blame them for looking for someone who represents the conservative values – but Palin ain’t the one. She’s a total fake – blowing with whatever wind will land her where she wants to be. And that isn’t necessarily where her admiring conservative base thinks she belongs. At all.


  480. JuneauJoe, she also treated Nick Tucker like he was a senile old man, patted him on his shoulder, looked somewhat attentive (while looking at her watch), almost patted him on the head. . . remember that? How insulting.


  481. I’ll be popping in and out as time permits today – running three systems covering iranian election and demonstrations. We’re fielding rpts from students, business people, reuters, ap, bbc, and abc. Several students voices have been silent for a couple hours raising our concern to the stratosphere. 5 students were killed in dorms at Tehran University last night. 100+ in jail. STUDENTS. In all totalitarian states if you want to stop the most basic of freedom – freedom of thought – you attack academia. This makes my “problems” w/ stepson very small potatoes in the larger picture. Speaking of stepson – he’s running one of the systems monitoring twitter feeds. Ironic. The pics coming in showing kids his age bloodied and beaten are starting to get to him. Time for him to get some air.


  482. Greytdog,

    Palin brought cookies – forgot about that.

    She blew it though. In the villages, the like Eskimo Ice Cream, she should have taken the traditional choice of dessert if she had any idea of the native culture.

    Even the Yupik first dude should have known that cookies are not the village choice.

    Iran and North Korea: But GW and THE DICK were worried about Iraq! You mean, Iran is the real backer of terrorism? Who woulda thunk it?


  483. about the ‘election’ in Iran, no surprises here, dictators do what they do best. there’s only one way out for those people = revolution.


  484. I was talking to a friend who lived in Wasilla and knows the Palin clan, she says they are what is considered, pardon the expression, ‘white trash’, what a shocker! LOL!

    The son only joined the army after he was arrested for destroying school property and was given two choices, jail or the army.

    and please, do not expect that bunch of wazoos to go away quietly, they are media whores


  485. , if we begin the conversation with the premise that the “press”, or ACORN or all other diabolical forces elected Obama with the 2 largest margin of victory in history… Then we don’t have much to discuss…

    If we begin the conversation that Obama was not “vetted’ properly, after giving 792 interviews with every news organization on earth in a two year period. If you believe the American public did not have the opportunity to get to know Obama after daily appearances for 2 years straight…

    As opposed to Palin’s 3 prime time interviews….. 3….. 3……. count them 3 …

    If we begin the conversation that Rev Wright, his religion, his birth certificate, were not discussed, written about , used in ads, dissect at nauseam… Then I have wasted my time in this discussion… because it wasn’t a discussion of facts, but rather a talk about misrepresented truths and talking points.

    namaste… LOl I’m exhausted…


  486. JuneauJoe now you know that Palin showed up at the villages with a plate of cookies. . . so be fair. She did what she thought was warranted in that situation. . . 😛


  487. James,

    Palin is a joke. You want to rewrite history about my dear Gov but the truth will come out.

    -Rev Luthee
    -MatSu: Left a big debt behind when she was mayor.
    -Villages: Emmonak starved and she did nothing about the $8.00 gal fuel oil costs.
    -Bridge to nowhere
    -Veto: vetoed a bill which would allow for home weaterhization in a state the 20 below zero is common.
    This is a short list.


  488. Obama was a good candidate, as was Palin. One difference between them was the press loved Obama. They glossed over the Rev Wright and ignored his cutting Wright loose after Wright called him a politician. They showed little interest in Obama’s relations with the Ayres, ACORN, Rezco, his Illinois voting record and his lack of executive experience. The mainstream press touched on them but mainly to show they were not serious concerns. Reporters even delayed mentioning some issues.

    Obama’s birth certificate, his religion, and others you listed were issues of the far right, not the main stream press.

    As good as Obama was, he had an ace in the hole–Bush. Conditions favored him and hurt Mc Cain-Palin.

    Records show more positive stories about Obama than the Republicans.

    Tom Brokaw and another said on the Charlie Rose show that they had not paid much attention to Obama’s past and that they knew very little about him. They didn’t care because the “light master” was “The One.”


    That both energized large segments of the population is a matter of record. Palin still drew large crowds when she spoke in New York before the battle with Letterman. I don’t know about her poll numbers, and I am sure David Letterman attracted some more viewers over this.

    However, from what I have read, including what I posted earlier, is the general consensus is that Palin came out ahead. She damaged David Letterman for a few days, and she upheld the family honor.

    I’m sticking to my story. Palin is a potential force, and her ability to energize Republicans is reason enough to marginalize her. The Democratic press has been trying to to it. If they did not fear her, they would not pay so much attention to a washed up might have been. Some Republicans including Newt feel the same. Better to ignore her and let people forget.

    If this is your last word on the subject, I enjoyed the “conversation.” I hope you contradict me again some other time.


  489. Comedians make jokes about people. Their jokes are usually tied to some fact and perceptions that already exist. They are not required to be politically correct, morally correct, or even G-rated. It is not a standard that we require from our comedians. In truth, many reasons they are considered funny is because they don’t stay within those confines. No thinking person would accept his or her words as gospel.

    If the Palins did not escalate this to a national level, it would have gone away in the same way Leno’s joke did told during the campaign in September regarding Bristol and Edwards.

    I think it is all about her (Sarah) and trying to paint herself as this clean and patriotic person. She is not just concerned as a parent. A caring parent would not have made this an issue to be played out in every media outlet that would give her voice. There is no real threat from Letterman to any of her children. Why amp this up?

    This gal loves the spotlight and feels the need to tell the world how righteous she is. That is my read from every “performance” I have seen of her. If she is perceived a threat and a legitimate candidate, it isn’t by any thinking Americans, IMO.


  490. lori,

    I agree with you about Palin and the democrats.

    Sarah is a big hypocrite:
    -Sarah uses her children for political gain but cries foul whenever people mention her kids.
    -Palin makes sure she is doing well financially but lets villagers starve.
    -She says drill, drill drill on native lands but could care less that the natives pay $8.00 a gal for heating oil when it is 30 below zero.

    Palin is the joke that keeps on giving.


  491. and just for the record… Letterman’s joke made me smile a little… Why???? Because I like Letterman’s humor. I am not alone.. Letterman is popular… LOTS of people tune into Letterman because they like his humor 30 million? .. a FEW people like Sarah (10 million?? based on her having 20 percent of the republican party’s poll numbers,) ! It is VERY stupid to pick a fight with a more popular person… Golden rule number 2 in politics..

    I end with the reason I began…. The democrats are not afraid of Palin.. We are VERY certain someone will emerge from the ashes that will be formidable, but it isn’t gonna be Sarah…. That’s just a Sarah ‘talking” point….

    Ok now I’m done. 😉 namaste


  492. James, a good candidate… ie Obama, can withstand negitive “press”… Think Rev. Wright, birth certificate, anti christ, satan, communist, socialist, and all the other isms…..

    Comparing Obama’s appeal to Sarah’s is ridiculous.


  493. Interesting blog!


  494. Why bloggers matter:


  495. I agree with much of what you wrote lori. I disagree that she hurt McCain’s campaign, even as she slipped toward election day. Before Sarah arrived, McCain had trouble getting enough people for four hands of bridge. Once, Drudge linked to a nearly empty city hall where McCain spoke.

    The Governor brought so many people McCain campaigned with her to catch some of the luster. Palin was as charismatic as Obama. McCain rose steadily in the polls during early September, and several showed his team in the lead. Had the banking system not begun to crash when it did, there is an even chance Sarah Palin might have been our Vice President. I think writers in Time and US News and World Report believed the same.

    I agree, her image was fading toward the election, partly due to an onslaught of negative press, a terrible interview with Katy Curic, and another interview ABC partly altered to make her look worse. She came across as dumb. Some of the blame for that was Palin’s handlers overly scripted her because they thought she was a country hick who shot her mouth off. They were right. Still, Palin brought the ticket a net gain of votes.

    During the first days of the crisis, Obama seemed cool and presidential while McCain appeared paniced and frantic.

    I don’t think she could get the Republican nomination now either. Her staff has been in disarray, or so I’ve heard. As you write, she has become a lightning rod. How ever l, she has a lot of flash, and she attracts attention because she is more dynamic than most of the remaining Republican leading lights. Some of that speaks to the pathetic condition of the current Republican Party.

    Politics fosters short memories. Richard Nixon is a notable example. No one would have believed he would become president after his “you won’t have me to kick around any more” speech. You are right about the next two or three months, but none of us knows about the next ten or fifteen years. Governor Palin is still fairly young.

    Palin still has “IT.” An Omaha talk show host who has problems with Sarah prepared a list of questions to challenge some of her statements. All he could think, he recalled as he met her was “She is HOT!”

    Howard Kurtz of CNN said ” This was not a Tina Fey gentle mockery, this was pretty rough to go after, as he did, a 14- year old girl or an 18-year old girl. And I don’t think the apology was sufficient.”

    ? Halperin said “I think people across the board say he went too far.” “But in terms of Sarah Palin, its not necessarily clear that its politically smart for her to do what she did (n response to Letterman.)”

    I agree with both including Halperin’s wondering about the wisdom of Palins’ over reaction. I think she reacted as a parent, not a politician. I would have done the same in spite of the politics.


  496. greytdog, I know you want to move on, but we have a shared experience in the stepson area so I feel the need to comment once more. My stepson was the younger of two children. His mother was very chummy with his older sister. When she got out of high school, mom decided to leave the country to persue her own interests. ‘Son, you can go live with your dad.’ This was after dad had left them several years earlier. I won’t say dad was a model of virtue, but he was a good man and he did try to be involved with both kids. Mom was very much a girls do girl things and boys do boy things person. She was only involved with her daughter.

    The result of this IMO was a big abandonment issue with the boy. Dad left him, then Mom essentially tossed him out and away from his friends. (We lived in another state.) My point is, from your descriptions, your stepson may be acting on some serious abandonment issues. Granted I only know what you have written, so I could be wrong. But it is something you might consider. The solution is a LOT of together time. I spent countless hours getting my stepson to talk with me. Mostly I got him talking and I listened a lot. The object was not to present any solution to the problems he had, just to let him talk. I think it was pretty successful with my stepson. My measurement for that opinion was that he came to understand that his mother probably did love him, but for her own reasons could not give him what he needed. It was not anything either of them could change.

    I started my contact when my stepson was 14 and as I mentioned, he was a pretty good kid. He was also a pretty sensitive kid. Obviously, your issues have been going on longer. Even so, there is still time. It might take some long nights. Teens have a different body clock. I remember being up long past my bedtime so he could talk out whatever was on his mind. It was worth it.


  497. James, You are correct, when Palin first came on the scene it was widely known and is pretty standard political practice that either party has about 3 days to “destroy”, “discredit”, “marginalize” the vice presidential nominee of the opposing party. It is politics 101! It is a race to be the first to “define” the candidate. Lucky for us, there wasn’t a whole lot we had to do with Palin. She did it for us! The republicans had a successful convention, all things considered. (hurricane, unpopular sitting president, old white curmudgeons) But it wasn’t too long after that the the glow of Sarah started to fade. Quickly she became a lightening rod. Lighting rods do not win elections.. If you are LUCKY they will bring some spark to the party but more times than not, as in the case with Sarah, they draw just as much negative attention as positive. The golden rule when nominating a VP is do NO damage. In this respect Mc cain’s campaign screwed up, yet again.

    Since the convention Sarah’s popularity has fallen drastically, I don’t think she could even get the republican nomination at this point. Last i saw she was in the 20 percentile among rebups and I sure as hell know there isn’t a democrat in the land that would vote for her, so how in the heck could she be elected?

    Was she a good candidate? In the sense that she helped make their convention a tad less boring, yes. But the damage she did in the days to follow, and continues to do far out weighed those few days. Can she make a come back and change her image and become a viable candidate again? Doubtful… She has 2 to 3 more months to make that happen. Fighting with comedians about her sexually promiscuous teenage daughter’s reputation isn’t the way to make that happen.

    I’m just sayin! namaste’


  498. What Hillary can teach Sarah (From The Daily Beast)


  499. Sometimes Fox gets it right. This is all from the right re: Sotomayor, Limbaugh, Palin.


  500. Hi gang,

    How’s about changing the subject to a little very sound medical advice from a renowned cardiologist. My kind of doctor!

    Q: Doctor, I’ve heard that cardiovascular exercise can prolong life. Is this true?

    A: Your heart is only good for so many beats, and that’s it… don’t waste them on exercise. Everything wears out eventually. Speeding up your heart will not make you live longer; that’s like saying you can extend the life of your car by driving it faster. Want to live longer? Take a nap.

    Q: Should I cut down on meat and eat more fruits and vegetables?

    A: You must grasp logistical efficiencies. What does a cow eat? Hay and corn. And what are these? Vegetables. So a steak is nothing more than an efficient mechanism of delivering vegetables to your system. Need grain? Eat chicken. Beef is also a good source of field grass (green leafy vegetable). And a pork chop can give you 100% of your recommended daily allowance of vegetable products.

    Q: Should I reduce my alcohol intake?

    A: No, not at all. Wine is made from fruit. Brandy is distilled wine; that means they take the water out of the fruity bit so you get even more of the goodness that way. Beer is also made out of grain. So have a cup now and then!

    Q: How can I calculate my body/fat ratio?

    A: Well, if you have a body and you have fat, your ratio is one to one. If you have two bodies, your ratio is two to one, etc.

    Q: What are some of the advantages of participating in a regular exercise program?

    A: Can’t think of a single one; sorry. My philosophy is: No Pain…Good!

    Q: Aren’t fried foods bad for you?

    A: YOU’RE NOT LISTENING!!! …… Foods are fried these days in vegetable oil. In fact, they’re permeated in it. How could getting more vegetables be bad for you?

    Q: Will sit-ups help prevent me from getting a little soft around the middle?

    A: Definitely not! When you exercise a muscle, it gets bigger. You should only be doing sit-ups if you want a bigger stomach.

    Q: Is chocolate bad for me?

    A: Are you crazy? HELLO! Cocoa beans! Another vegetable! It’s the best feel-good food around!

    Q: Is swimming good for your figure?

    A: If swimming is good for your figure, explain whales to me.

    Q: Is getting in shape important for my lifestyle?

    A: Hey! ‘Round’ is a shape!

    Well, I hope this has cleared up any misconceptions you may have had about food and diets.

    And remember:

    ‘Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways – Chardonnay in one hand – chocolate in the other – body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming ‘WOO-HOO, what a ride!’


    For those of you who watch what you eat, here’s the final word on nutrition and health. It’s a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting nutritional studies.

    1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

    2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

    3. The Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

    4. The Italians drink a lot of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

    5. The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausage and fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.


    Eat and drink what you like.
    Speaking English is apparently what kills you.


    Auntie Jean


  501. They’ve attacked the dorms at the universities.


  502. Hi gang,

    Me again. I turned on CNN while I was making lunch and there was Palin being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer. I hadn’t really seen her except for short clips since before the election. I stayed tuned to see what the fuss here on M&H’s is all about.

    She was of course quite glib, talking up a blue streak but not saying anything really beyond the same ole recycled stump rhetoric. When the interview was over, I thought, “What’d she say? Nothing of any substance at all.”

    I guess I’m just not the type to be turned on by an airhead cum ‘deep thinker?????’.


    Auntie Jean


  503. Hi gang,

    I was afraid of this with the Iranian so-called ‘Election’. The trouble is, Ahmadfbwofbnwejad will get away with it and be even more repressive and aggressive than before.


    Auntie Jean



    “The exuberance of last week, when Mr Mousavi appeared to be heading for a spectacular victory, turned to terror in the space of a few hours on Friday night as the regime unleashed its forces on the opposition. . .

    “All weekend, late into the night, squads of 30 or 40 riot police tore round the capital on motorbikes. . .

    “Nobody was spared. The Times witnessed an old woman in a long black chador being beaten in a doorway after she hurled insults at the police, a teacher clubbed to the ground by a basij as he tried to protect his demonstrating students and countless protesters carried away with blood streaming from their wounds.”

    Just 2 days ago I heard news readers refer to a “robust democracy” in Iran. This kind of response to demonstrations surely means that Ahmaddinejad did lose the election. But he means to stay in power nevertheless.


  505. CNN today “Hundreds of regular and riot police were on the streets as civil unrest continued for the second straight day.

    But it was non-uniformed activists, on foot and on motorcycles, who appeared to be behind the most violent incidents.

    Some residents told CNN that these “militias” were forcing their way into the homes of Moussavi supporters.

    CNN reporters in Tehran witnessed men, dressed in plain clothes, combing through streets and alleys for anti-Ahmadinejad protesters. Armed with clubs, metal batons and baseball bats, they chased protesters, in some cases beating them.

    Sunday’s clashes began between police and protesters as Ahmadinejad held a victory rally while opposition supporters claimed ballot fraud.”


  506. From Andrew Sullivan, The Daily Dish, The Atlantic:
    14 Jun 2009 05:11 pm
    The BBC Is Ordered Out Of The Country

    In situations like these, peer-to-peer media is essential. Send all you’ve got to me. We’ll do our best to assess, edit, and post. There is no neutrality in this. Every blogger is now an honorary member of the resistance. We are at war too – for peace and democracy.


  507. Good calls Greytdog. It sounds as if the citizens of Iran are really really mad. BBC told to get out. ABC shut down over there.

    On another note, I hope the problems you are having with your stepson can be resolved. Please take care of yourself.

    To Sherrie concerning volunteer hours for kids with minor offences. I have been involved in supervising offenders needing volunteer hours. It is often a thankless job supervising these kids. They don’t change as they do the busy work you find for them; they just mess it up. When the kids do volunteer work because of a school requirement, the outcome is often different. Just my experience.


  508. Iran Update: 3:22 PM ET — Foreign media crackdown intensifying. ABC’s Jim Sciutto tweets: “police confiscated our camera and videotapes. We are shooting protests and police violence on our cell phones.”

    Alex Hoder tweets: “NBC offices in Tehran raided, cameras and Equipment confiscated. BBC told to get out Iran immediately. Cell/internet shut down”

    BBC publishes editorial: “Stop the blocking now.”


  509. Hi folks – don’t know if you’re following the events in Iran, but internet is being shutdown, leaving only state-run websites available. . .tweets however are coming out and they are asking everyone globally to please open another window in your browser to the website listed below. . .and then leave it on that website. They’ve already managed to shut down a couple of the state-run sites.. .but this one is the biggie. Also, tweets coming in reporting that the police bashing on the protesters speaking arabic not farsi – indications are that Hezbollah fighters brought in pre-election. . .here’s the original tweet: @StopAhmadiLet’s take down Khamenei (website will auto-reload itself, keep open) #iranelection


  510. One more: “There are rumors of a protest at Vali-Asr today at 12:30PM.

    This is a trap. please pass this on to everyone you know. The official word from Mousavi HQ is hold back and wait for word.




  511. Words have consequences!



  512. Here is something to put our petty argument about Letterman’s joke in prospective.

    Here are fear and change you can believe in thanks to modern technology.

    A site called Alerts from Tehran-tahranbureau is giving minute by minute news about events in Iran, many posts are from Iranians.

    Tehran resident: “go out peacefully and beep your horn or hold up our posters…just be out there tonight.

    all sms and txt messaging is still down.”

    Another resident: “Friends abroad if you media is telling you we voted for Ahmadinejad, its a big lie. There are riots in the streets of Tehran. people are out on the streets again just beeping their horns and giving the victory sign. The kids are chanting ahmadi pinochet iIrean won’t be chilie! Everyone in Iran come out even in your cars and show your green ribbons and beep your horn.”

    Another: ” For the moment, facebook is just blocked right now. I am in Elahieh neighorhood. I hear shooting right now I am writing. the shootings were far away.” ( 12:51 Eastern time)

    “Chaos in the streets of Tehran. Stuck for an hour in a riot near the Ministry of the Interior. Police and Basij beating protesters.”

    “We are launching our third Global Photo shoot; Gather outside your embassy, university, Main square etc. and take photos with the subject “where are our votes?”

    ” Panic on the streets of Tehran. Outside mass protests. Between 50-100 dead. Police on motercycles beating people as drive by; attacking women.”

    10:15AM Sunday Tehran time: I was on the phone with my dad…he’s in the person rug business in Tehran. He said every things really come down there and on his way to Bazaar but places like Khiyaban Vaki Asr and vanak are petty chaotic… my cousin there was beaten pretty bad with a baton…seems like its getting very violent…”

    The banks are all closed most with windows smashed up. Its morning now and it seems to be business as usual for people going to work but everyone is angry and bitter. its a very strange unsettling feeling. You can feel things are going to explode at some point.”

    “saadat abad riots-the people have severely beaten the police forces. burned every one of their moter bikes. following which the police retaliated by smashing all the cars and home windows in the residence neighborhood.”

    Iranian TV has been showing movies all day! Not ONE WORD OF THE UNREST.”

    “It took hours to get home today. I had to hide in peoples’ houses and car parks and where ever I could find just to avoid getting beaten by the guys on moterbikes with batons. They were hitting everyone they passed. I saw them pulling women out of cars and beating then. Oddly places you thought would be busy are not. Tahrish is empty. Elsewhere people driving around honking horns and showing peace signs. All seems completely futile.. And odd at work all very angry and upset and cyncial, no one could actually do any work. but I was saddened by the fact everyone seemed resigned to it already.

    Two of my friends are also missing, one I know was arrested but no news since. No idea about the other.”

    raj “gunfire heard outside train station rapid bursts. I hear woman scream. ”

    raj at 1:54 ” blood on street near station. something must have happen there very recent…

    Translated from Iran sent (6:13 EST)

    “Here the internet is horrible. After much trouble, I was able to log on through a proxy. I’ll try my best to get the news to you. I have news that in Shahrake Gharb is absolute chaos. people are in the streets, they’re chanting. No sign of police. Their protest continues at this hour. I also hear that Niavaran is a big chaotic too–at least until an hour ago. I’m sorry my information is fragmented. I’m afraid I’ll get disconnected. In niavaran peoplel are shouting from their homes. That way when police comes they quickly retreat: so that they haven’t been able to arrest anyone. I’ve also heard that people captured a few of the Baij guys and gave them a beating. It feels like martial law here. Cell phones are down. Internet lines are horrible Facebook is filtered and..I also have news from Ahvaz. They have also announce there that if someone comes out of their house they will be arrested. So keep your fingers crossed and pray for us . Tomorrow is a great day. I gave you the news. Please try to publish it Thx.

    I don’t pray often, but I am praying now.


  513. Sarah Palin is not a representative of fundamental Christian values, though she claims to be. Her actions and words show her true colors. Look to the “fruit” in her life. She, like many others, are deceiving themselves. She may be on one side of the abortion issue, and that is the barometer many use to make that determination. IMO, that is a poor gauge. Many Christians may oppose abortion, but do not feel that making them illegal is the answer. We certainly know that will not prevent them from happening. As others have said it will just bring us back to the dark ages of the back alleys and unsterile environment that we came out of.

    Many have claimed abortion is murder. Murder is determined by intent. Doctors performing these are called murderers, when in reality they are mostly concerned for the women who have come to them for help. The most they could be is an accessory to the fact. It is the woman (or girl) that must determine her intent for wanting to terminate a pregnancy. All life is precious. Yet we think nothing about terminating the animals or plants in our world for our benefit or sport. Just as a tree decides whether to drop its fruit that it cannot sustain before it is ripe, a woman should have the right to terminate a pregnancy. Her conscience needs to be the determining factor. That child would not be able to sustain itself without her, under normal circumstances. IMO, we should not be the judge. There are exceptions, as always. But it is much healthier to do these procedures in sterile medical environments.

    How do we categorize war? The intent is to take life. Is it always more noble? I can’t say. We went through the Vietnam era calling our soldiers murderers. I will not judge. I can only attest to my own intentions.


  514. Margaret & Helen, you two are two peas in a pod and funny as heck. Thank you for the common sense, the humor and for telling it like it is!

    Funny thing about perspective – Palin is my governor and there is not a chance she’ll be re-elected here. I also watched the Lauer interview and Palin looked and sounded like the sour, mean twit that she is. She’s a narcissist, so all she has to throw are fireballs. She has no class, no introspection, no ability to change. She is working on shock value, and that will fade.

    The word FEAR is bandied about between parties with no real understanding of what the other side really thinks. The conservatives think the “Fear of Palin” works for them and it doesn’t. The “Fear of Palin” is not what they think it is. Let ’em think what they want – delusional is as delusional does.

    Fear of change is the real danger, and that’s why the more whacko side of the right embraces her – because she does not, can not change. Once she wears on you, her phony “breath of fresh air” is all for naught and you can see her every upcoming move. I oppose her every step of the way, but I do not fear her. She’s a flash in the pan. Locked into her narcissism, never to be freed.


  515. Sherri A, the way I see it fear of the voters who might elect her is the same as fearing Governor Palin. You can’t separate the two. If enough people vote for her it will because of how she presents herself and what she says. Like Huey Long, if Sarah Palin had a different personality, she would not be a national political force. Therefore to fear her voters is to fear her.

    We face a rough few years and a depression or a major world upheaval is not out of the question. Obama remains popular, but his policies are much less so. Under those circumstances, Palin might become our president or at least help defeat Democratic legislators. More voters are deserting both parties and declaring themselves to be independents. One poll showed Dick Cheney to be more popular than Nancy Pelosi, though less unpopular is more accurate. Now, it is “a net gain zero”, but the future may be different. I wouldn’t vote for her now, but many people would. People thought Huey Long was an ignorant hick too.

    David Letterman’s joke was unintentionally about implied statutory rape. In the joke ARod inpregnated a daughter during Palin’s trip. Her daughter had to be available to him.

    Letterman was talking about the Governor’s visit to New York, and Willow, not Bristol was with her. A joke about an absent daughter would have had no interior logic and nonsensical. One of Letterman’s excuses was the writers mistook Bristol for Willow. Hence the joke became something worse than intended. It may have been a nod to irony, but poor research made it about under aged sex which is legally statutory rape.

    Any parent hearing such a joke about a daughter would not have been moved by such subtle niceties. Letterman could have ended it with a nice appology as you wrote.

    If teenaged pregnancy has been on a steady incline for the past two years, it corresponds to the time Democrats have controlled Congress. I don’t blame the Democrats or religious right, because I don’t know what causes the fluctuation. As you know, I am pro- choice.

    Lori, you didn’t burst any bubbles. An Omaha Democrat said that Palin is a concern because she is such a good candidate. I already quoted the two Democrats overheard at the Republican convention. The Democrats you know may not worry about her, but others do. Those who don’t worry underestimate her as one of her Democratic opponents in Alaska said he did. Republicans also thought Obama was of little concern, and they directed their attention to Hillary.

    If Democrats don’t secretly fear Palin, why don’t they attack Mitt Romney, or Huckabee who were candidates and may be again? Because Palin, not they garners attention.

    I’m sure she is a money maker for the party as Obama is for Republicans. The gun industry ought to be grateful to our President because he has stimulated gun sales. Use of a political figure to frighten people for financial gain is as old as the hills. So is marginalizing an enemy to neutralize him/her.

    Thanks for the good discussion. I have to go now.


  516. Sherri and Lori

    Well said

    On a different subject, I hope everyone will
    read the Frank Rich editorial in todays NYT.
    It can also be read at Huffpo

    Margaret and Helen
    Great blog!
    And how fortunate you are to have such an
    enduring friendship


  517. And what the reports on teen pregnancy tell us, and which the media and politicos all tend to gloss over, is that the AGE of those pregnant teens is lower. When I was teenager it was mostly 11th/12th graders who were getting knocked up. Now it’s middle school kids. When my stepson came home at age 11 after the first “intro” to sex education class, he thought it was funny. Not ha ha embarrassed funny, but haha the teacher is an idiot cuz she said this and it’s really that. I was a bit taken aback to realize how much he knew about sex – he laughed that they didn’t even discuss anal or oral sex cuz that’s what the kids were doing! And the basic message was really DADT – in other words, parents don’t ask, kids don’t tell.


  518. James, I have a little inside knowledge concerning the democratic party’s strategy. I can assure you being afraid of Palin is not on the radar screen. In fact, Palin was one of our biggest money makers in the last election. The day she came on the screen Obama’s donations matched an all time high. She is the gift that just keeps on giving to us.. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    For as much as she rallies her base she does the same for the dems. net gain zero….


  519. What Sherri said


  520. On a related note, three years ago teen pregnancies were at their lowest national level in thirty years.

    Unfortunately, teen pregnancy has been on a steady incline for the past two years.

    Funny, when the religious right gets their way teen pregnancy increases…back-alley abortions will follow suit if they continue to get their way.

    Thanks, Sarah.


  521. James,

    I don’t fear Palin…I do feat the prospect that she could be president one day simply b/c those who label themselves fundamentalist Christians or evangelical Christians or conservative Christians will vote en mass for her b/c she spews out Bible verses and references to God and prayer and is pro-life and anti-sex ed. These people are not concerned about her knowledge, wisdom, experience, or leadership abilities. They are one-issue voters – they’re going to vote solely for the person who cries “God” the loudest, regardless of that person’s ability to preside over the many facets of our federal government. THAT scares the crap out of me! I’m fearful of the voters, NOT of Palin.

    Personally, I think Palin is so ignorant, so unknowledgable, so self-absorbed, so apathetic, and so immature that it ought to be against the law for her to speak in public.

    And let’s be honest with ourselves…..David Letterman’s joke was in bad taste and was inappropriate, and he should have and still should offer a more sincere apology, as everyone on here has agreed. But it was NOT about rape and it’s insulting for you, Palin, and others to twist the facts and say that it was. It was a nod to the irony that her teenage daughter became pregnant while Palin refuses to allow the public schools in AK to teach sex ed, safe sex, protected sex, or anything other than abstinence.

    And, yes, that does need to be thrown in Palin’s face and she does need to be forced to think about it…..she has every right to project her own religious beliefs upon her own family in her own household — but being the governor does not give her the right to project her religious beliefs on the entire state and harm tens of thousands of teenagers in the process.


  522. greytdog, my wife, a teacher often runs into kids like that. Most turn out well in the end. Some get arrested.

    An e friend told us her rich brother was paying for his son’s college education. The family thought he was in university and doing fine. At the end of his freshman year, they discovered he had been faking it and spending the money on other things. His father referred him to a psychologist.

    One of our son’s college friends was a sociopath. He dropped out of school and hid in the dorm for most of a year.

    Both of those kids turned out better later. They are both back in college. Maybe their outcome will give you a little encouragement. I hope things work out for your family. It is terrible not to know what will happen next.

    During the service, I had experience with violence and killing. Thoughts, talk, and actions are much different from each other. Unless you have no moral compass or altruism, it takes a major leap to actually try to end someone’s life. At least it was for me. Horrible.


  523. HoneyJoRumples, I am typing with one eye closed, so that is my excuse for a disjointed post. Media bias is real. Researchers have proven it.

    The 2005 Quarterly Journal of Economics discussed a study by Tim Groseclose, a political scientist at UCLA and Jeffry Milyo, an economist at the University of Missouri-Columbia. They created a scale and assigned 20 major news outlets and legislators in Washington, DC positions based on their citations of think tanks and policy groups labeled liberal or conservative. They also factored in the voting records of congressmen. Their measure determined that most of the magor media were left of center of the average legislator. Even the Wall Street Journal was slightly left of the average Democrat. The exeptions were the WAsthingon Times and Fox New’s Special Report.

    September’s issue of Scientific American also discussed bias and noted that early in the spring McCain had more favorable press than Obama when Hillary was still considered the front runner. John Leo also wrote about media bias. He believes many don’t realize they are biased because reporters are surrounded by people who think as they do.

    Obama did say all politicians families should be off limits in September. I think he said “politicians” families when he criticized coverage of Bristol Palin. That implies his family too. On Halloween night he had a photo op with his trick or treating daughters. Then, he asked reporters to leave them alone.

    Late night comedians have not joked much about Obama’s mother-in law in the White House or his illegal alien aunt. Why? He has made some great verbal blunders including the problem with his runaway teleprompter when he thanked himself for appearing. Why by their own admission do comedians find it hard to joke about President Obama? Writers have compared Obama to God and one called him a light master. Magazines have shown him with halos and Evan Thomas was the last to compare Obama to God.

    Rush Limbaugh and the others are political entertainers , and they do operate under a political double standard. Yes, comedians can get away with more, but David Letterman crossed into what should be forbidden territory. Even NOW didn’t like the joke. His writers confused Bristol with Willow and turned it into a joke implying statutory rape because Willow is fourteen. Bristol wasn’t even there, so to say she was the object of the joke makes her a non- sequetar. ARod should have been insulted too, but he is not a minor.

    Even so, it was just a joke, and David made it into a larger issue because he refused to give an adequate appolgy. That few liberals criticized the joke at first turned it into another bias grievance.

    If Jay Leno had made a rape joke, he should have been called on it too. A joke about the campaign pimping Chelsie for votes was wrong without basis for truth whether or not it cost Hillary votes. Anti -Palin jokes marginalize her and create an image which sticks in some minds. Such an image may cost her votes. Late night comedy shows like SNL are news sources for some people.

    I was once a county campaign coordinator for a state candidate. One of my jobs was to watch for potential attractive candidates who might cause trouble later. Sarah Palin is such a candidate who matches Obama’s charasma. Two Democratic officials were overheard saying after her Repblican Convention speech, “we have 72 hours to destroy her.” Republicans with fantacies of running for a future nomination fear her too.

    It isn’t all political. Palin comes from rural middle America, the fly over country, enlightened coastal urban dwellers of both parties disdain. She like many attractive women flaunts herself to her advantage. She is an easy target. There is nothing wrong with that. However, were she a liberal Democrat, Palin would not be the butt of so many jokes, because liberals would not be trying to discredit her.

    Republicans illustrated their fear at a recent fund raiser when they invited, disinvited and re-invited her. She didn’t speak, but Governor Palin was still one of the main attractions. Anyone who doesn’t think her opponents fear Palin isn’t paying attention.

    I compare Palin to Huey Long (not in political beliefs or modus operandi), a nominal Democrat who was a radical populist. He was an ardent enemy of corporate interests and championed the “little man” against the rich and privileged. He was a farm boy from north Louisnana, was colorful, Charismatic, controversial. He always venturing to the edge. Though he was a high school drop out, he studied law and received his law degree after one year of study.

    History Matters wrote that no politician of his era-except Roosevelt and his sometime ally radio personality Father Charles Couglin used radio as effectively and frequently. Huey (Kingfish) Long was convinced he would eventually become president and made his prediction in a best selling book. He was assinated in 1935.

    Under the right conditions Sarah Palin could become a mirror image of the Kingfish and be president as Long might have. If you don’t think that prospect doesn’t send fear into the hearts of Democrats and some Republicans you need to read more.

    I agree with you Poolman. We create God in our own image to justify our actions and beliefs.


  524. Hi all, thanks for letting me vent out about the situation here. Jsri, unfortunately this has nothing to do with puberty. . .we’ve been dealing with this type of behavior since he was 8 and his first brush with the law was at 10 – which is when mama decided she just “wouldn’t deal with this” and sent him to us whereupon it was akin to trying to stop a tsunami by yelling at the wave to stop. We’ve been able to mitigate some things, and this is the first time he’s done a fullblown case of theft and vandalism at home. . .but anyway – I still hope that there lies within him the potential for change. . . my biggest concern is that this really is a kid with no moral compass whatsoever. And it’s been my experience that it is a rare event for a moral compass “transplant” or “reset”. Every once in awhile though something flashes and he’ll actually ask very thought provoking questions about religion or politics. . .but that’s usually followed by an act such as the one we recently experienced. . .so it’s very much a minefield sometimes. . . sometimes you step in a cow pattie, other times it’s a mine. . .

    That’s why I think hatemongers are so dangerously insidious – they prey and play on folks similar to my stepson – folks who have a sense of entitlement, who have no moral compass, who truly operate in a world of viction and decide the only way to “get theirs back” is through violence. And those who enable this through their actions, their words, their rallies – they are equally to blame.

    Again folks thanks for letting me vent out. And let’s move on!


  525. I am a Christian, as I have said before. Again I feel the need to stand up and apologize for others who claim to be the same. Those condemning others in public, whether it is at the gay pride parades, in front of abortion clinics, those shouting into the airwaves, etc. You know the type. Belligerent. Hateful. Judgmental. In your face. Obnoxious. Better than thou types…

    Jesus was close to that way only one time that is recorded in the bible. That was in the temple where the moneychangers were abusing the house of God. It was his angry moment. And it was justified, as they were hindering those who came to worship.

    So I am sorry for all the idiots out there that are supposed to be representative of Him. They feel justified in their hearts that they are furthering God’s Kingdom, when in reality I feel they are a great hindrance. They are stubborn and believe strongly in their will to do His. We are not all that way. Please don’t paint us all with the same wide brush.


  526. HoneyJo, Amen!

    I just don’t think logic and common sense rule. Many look and still cannot see. There is a disconnect. A distortion that keeps some from truly understanding reality. If it goes against what they perceive, it has to be wrong. They cling to their misconceptions and prejudices. I have family the same way. Some people will go to their grave, stubborn till the end, just to prove a point. Sometimes it is better to kick the dust off your feet and move on. Life’s too short.


  527. “HoneyJoRumples….
    double standard….from huffpo

    On Thursday’s “Tucker” on MSNBC, David Shuster, who was serving as guest-host of the program, made a comment about Chelsea Clinton and the Clinton campaign that was irresponsible and inappropriate. Shuster, who apologized this morning on MSNBC and will again this evening, has been suspended from appearing on all NBC News broadcasts, other than to make his apology. He has also extended an apology to the Clinton family. NBC News takes these matters seriously, and offers our sincere regrets to the Clintons for the remarks.

    This link did not lead to a reporting of the actual comment. I had to do my own research to find the actual comment, but I understand that folks of your ilk, UAW, don’t like to let little trifles like facts get in the way. First, what I found most interesting is the headline on this page about how Jay Leno made a very similar joke about Bristol Palin and no one said boo. Talk about your double standard.

    Everyone makes the argument “if Rush Limbaugh had said something similar about Obama’s girls he would have been crucified, blah blah blah.” Again missing the point. Shuster, Limbaugh et al are political pundits. David Letterman is a COMEDIAN. There is a very very HUGE difference. There is a different standard as to what is in good taste and what crosses the line for each. Shuster was on a news channel, reporting and editorializing on the news. Saying that the Clinton campaign was pimping Chelsea out in some weird way because was calling super delegates on her mother’s behalf was not just a bad joke at Chelsea’s expense. It implied wrong doing and impropriety without any real facts or evidence of such, which could have actually caused harm to the Clinton campaign. Nothing David Letterman said about Bristol would ever cost Sara Palin votes or hurt her political career. That’s one of the main differences.

    “His remarks included praises to Perez Hilton, a judge who asked Miss California a question about gay marriage who later said disparaging remarks on his blog. In his remarks to Perez Hilton Shuster said “You are welcome. Your view of Miss CA’s intellect (and the lack thereof) is spot on.” ”

    This doesn’t prove anything relating to liberal media bias. Anyone who thinks they can keep their job, they deserve to keep their job, they are entitled to keep their job, even when they don’t DO it, is in fact lacking in intellect. Most right wing Christian folks want to ignore the fact that there actually was a fair, diplomatic way to have answered Mr. Hilton’s question and still keeping to her values, something perhaps regarding this great county, celebrating diversity is what makes this country great, blah blah blah, but our single moral consciousness that shores us up and one is important, blah blah blah, so I think other states should follow suit because it should be something every state needs to decide for itself, or no I don’t think other states should follow suit, this is a divisive issue and it should be something we stand united on, so it should be handled on the federal level, etc etc. etc. something like that. She chose to insult one of the judges and prattle on about our land, free to choose same sex (which we are not, that’s what gays are fighting for, the right to choose, BIG factual error) and give a poorly thought out, inarticulate, meandering, emotionally immature answer. I don’t care that she’s anti gay marriage, lots of people are, even our President, and I voted for him and am still very VERY proud I did. I am very pro gay marriage but I understand that not everyone is going to be on board, but there is a way to state how you feel and not be stupid about it. Carrie couldn’t figure that out. And even so, her crown was never in jeopardy because of her answer to that question. It was in jeopardy because of the semi nude photos and her blowing of appearances she had signe a contract to do in favor of other appearances and lending the name of Miss California to events and organizations that the Miss USA/Miss Universe pageants did not yet approve or not approve. Miss Prejean screwed herself by not doing the job she was contractually obligated to do, pure and simple. Again, no one, not even a homophobic hot blond with a great rack, gets to keep a job they refuse to work. That’s just not how the world works. The conservatives want her to get a pass on this rule everyone else must obey if they want to keep getting a paycheck because she happened to have been caught saying something they really really agree with. I’m sorry, but that’s just plain stupid. Christian anti-gay marriage people should not be allowed to keep a job they refuse to work simply because they are Christain anti-gay marriage people. Even Christian anit-gay marriage people still have to show up to work and DO their job.


  528. Hi gang and Sherri,

    Funny you should mention it, Sherri, that it’s time for another of my history lessons. I was thinking the same thing. Several years ago we visited Crete and the ruins of their sophisticated city, Knossis. As usual in our travels, I scribbled a journal of sorts and we bought all the local books we could find about it and its history so I could learn more about the place.

    Crete is the fifth largest island in the Mediterranean. Neolithic people inhabited Crete probably from the 6th millennium BC. They already had a fairly highly developed society, cultivating soil and domesticating animals. They were capable of building stone houses using stone and obsidian tools. (Metals were as yet unknown.) The simple relatively primitive figurines found suggest they worshipped a female fertility goddess.

    The Bronze Age ushered in a civilization that lasted over 1500 years from 2600-1100 BC, known as the ‘Minoan Civilization’, named for the legendary King Minos. This civilization reached the height of its power and prosperity in the 18th –16th centuries BC. In many respects, the Minoan and Egyptian Civilizations were contemporarioes and certainly not too far from each other geographically. Both probably pre-dated the Greek.

    It has been said that Minos was the first king to hold sway over the Aegean Sea with his great fleet, freeing the sea from pirates and colonizing the Greek chain of the Cyclades islands. Many features of the Minoan religion passed into Greek mythology.

    This civilization was at the crossroads of three continents, Asia, Africa and Europe. Very little is known of their language, as the ‘Phaestos Disc’ of the Minoan Civilization has not yet been deciphered. The “Phaestos Disc” (about 1600 BC) is a clay disc with hieroglyphic characters arranged in a spiral on both sides. If and when this disc is deciphered it will be an ENORMOUS achievement in archeology and history. But it would take years to sort it all out. The ‘Phaestos Disc’ could be compared to the Egyptian ‘Rosetta Stone’, the trilingual key to the hieroglyphic text of the ancient Egyptian language. It took until around 1832 for the French scholar, Jean-Francois Champollion to decipher the ‘Rosetta Stone’.

    The renowned artist, El Greco, was born on Crete.

    The Mediterranean has been rife with earthquakes and volcanic eruptions since time immemorial. On the tiny little island of Thera, 90 miles north of Crete, there was a HORRENDOUS eruption of the Santorini Volcano in approximately 1459 BC. There is a fascinating scientific theory floating around regarding this natural phenomenon. The effects of the eruption of that size would have been widespread throughout the Mediterranean and beyond.

    There was a more recent eruption of a volcano in Africa. It caused a large distant lake to turn red because of underground activity prior to the eruption that released vast amounts of iron into the water. The iron oxidized, making the lake appear blood red. Of course, deprived of oxygen, the marine life all died, polluting the lake with bacteria. But the frogs, being amphibians, jumped out. Naturally, the cattle drank the contaminated lake water, sickened and many died. Lots of dead marine and bovine life lying around attracted scavengers, flies and ‘siniphs’, small biting insects similar to gnats. These insects would have attack the remaining cattle and infected them first with disease. Next they would have attack humans, causing boils and ‘blains’, (large inflammatory swelling and sore blisters.)

    An enormous eruption of the size of Santorini would certainly have disrupted prevailing weather patterns, probably causing storms of thunder and lightning and possibly hail. Also concurrent could have been the fall out from the eruption of fire and ash from the volcano. Wherever there is volcanic activity, there is usually also seismic activity.

    As we all know, earthquakes cause tsunamis that can travel over widespread areas of oceans and seas. A tsunami typically draws the water AWAY in the opposite direction for a brief period before the massive waves move in.

    The eruption of Santorini played havoc with the Minoan Civilization on Crete.

    See where I am going with this? The sequence of events coincides with the Seven Plagues visited on the Egyptians at the time Moses was trying to get the Pharaoh to free the Jewish people from slavery, culminating with the parting of the Red Sea. (A tsumani from the Mediterranean? Who knows what the patterns of rivers from the Red Seas feeding into the Mediterranean were way back then.) The Bible, (The Book of Exodus) is singularly lacking in dates!

    Of course, this is not to say that God did not cause the Santorini Volcano to erupt in the first place, causing a domino chain of events that certainly worked in Moses favor! Who knows? God does work in strange and mysterious ways.

    Think about it.




  529. Sherri Δ

    I’m not sure that mandating community service for Greytdog’s stepson will work. It may only cause more resentment and more bad behavior. Then again, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    My son and DIL do a lot of community work despite having full time jobs. But it has been interesting to see how the grandsons have followed suit. Sometimes all the preaching in the world may not change an attitude but a good example might. Again, all this is easier said than done.


  530. Greytdog:

    I’m sure there are a lot of posters in this site who feel for you and your problem child. Anyone who has raised teenagers know how unreasonable and unpredictable they can be. Once their hormones kick in at puberty your life is reduced to walking on eggs. Unfortunately, they are out of your sight more than they are in your control and in this day and age the world is loaded with seductive influences that most of us old timers never could have imagined.

    But what goes around comes around. Our son was never a great problem but we had our moments of conflict. Now it is interesting to sit back and watch how he and his wife deal with their own teens. We offer advice only if asked, which is rarely. All parents seem to want to learn on their own.

    Fortunately son and wife are great parents and have good contact with their kids. Their house is a mecca for teens of all sizes and stripes, even one who spends an excess amount of time who is borderline homeless because his mother works nights and good old dad took off years ago for parts unknown. Our son and DIL are surrogate parents without even being asked.

    I hope your problem gets resolved soon. It is a hell of a way to have to live.


  531. Helen, as always, I say right on! Read some of the posts about the subject. Can’t say much about the man because I have never listened to an entire show of his. I only watch Fixed News when I cannot help it, like from the lobby or dining area of a hotel when I am held captive at breakfast time. Other than that, my house is Fixed News free. I came home one day and my husband had the TV tuned to their station. I almost felt like taking him to the emergency room. Had to ask him if he was doing ok.

    On the serious side, from the little I have gleaned from other news channels about him, he does not strike me as a very inspiring person. Well, maybe, inspiring hate? It is all very sad to waste good airtime spewing hate.


  532. greyt…wouldn’t it be GREAT if the judge sentenced the step-son (for breaking probation) to an outrageously high number of community service hours…..volunteering for Habitat for Humanity, serving at a soup kitchen, painting a homeless shelter, organizing a book drive for a needy classroom of kindergarteners, cleaning a nursing home, collecting nonperishable foods for the local AIDS shelter, collecting toiletries for the Ronald McDonald House, mowing the lawn for every senior citizen in the county….just all sorts of projects that would get him out of his own world and into the world of those who would shower him with appreciation for the smallest acts of kindness and empathy. Of course, birth mom should be working right alongside him for every project.

    I don’t know if it would work, but it would be a great experiment!


  533. “All the Rage”

    greyt…you make such a valid point about kids growing up with a sense of entitlement. I see it EVERY DAY in my middle school class. And when people don’t get whatever it is they think they’re entitled to, or they feel the slightest bit inconvenienced, they rage.

    Road rage, air rage, office rage, grocery cart rage, desk rage, work rage, bike rage, cell phone rage, theater rage, sports rage, computer rage, funeral rage, convenience store rage, parking lot rage, gym rage, umbrella rage, barking-dog rage…..about three years ago I did a research paper in which I cited research stating there are over 6,000 “documented” forms of rage…..just because we’re a society that expects what we want, when we want it, and don’t inconvenience me in the process. No wonder heart disease is on the rise in this country!

    This is exactly why I comment over and over on here about the need for empathy, kindness, and acceptance. So many of us are so self-absorbed.

    Jean, I am reminded of your earlier challenge to make eye contact with as many people as possible each day and simply smile. That one small act alone will not cure all that ails us as a society, but it is a start…it will get us out of our own shells of self-absorption and help us think about others.


  534. Hey UAW, he’s at his mom’s only for the weekend – cuz she doesn’t want the hassle of raising him. . .once he turned 10, she shipped him over to us. But continues to tell us how he needs to be raised. . .it’s rather ironic cuz whenever he’s screwed up and we (&/or the law) have come down on him, she’s ridden into the rescue and claimed victimology on his behalf. See why I can’t stand the whole “viction” thing (Victim+fiction). Anyway, we’re in a holding pattern right now – SO has to let the court know about this as it’s a violation of probation. . . and he’s really torn up about it but knows it’s the right thing. Tough Love is tough, isn’t it? Anyway, on a lighter note:

    Oh – a lot of kids problems, IMO from dealing with this up close & personal, has no correlation to the parents’ careers – my folks had 24/7 careers that took them all over the world, but they made sure we didn’t grow up with a sense of entitlement and that we gave something back to the community. My brother & his wife also have heavy career loads and their kids (and now grandkids) are all doing well – they raised them with the same philosophy – you earn your way through life and give back, pay it forward, help others, etc. . . By the time I showed up on the scene, my stepson already had an extremely well nurtured sense of entitlement and a strong belief that the world was in some sort of conspiracy against him (viction). . . it’s really sad cuz he’s so very very smart. . . what a waste.

    And I’m really not sure what your point is about Letterman’s son. . . but whatever.


  535. graydog….
    send him to his mothers and then press charges……alot safer than kicking the f@ck out of him like he deserves
    Todd should have done the same thing……
    It’s too bad when peoples jobs get i the way of raising a child….you think your doing the right thing and then ……shit happens,,,,I’m sure Letterman wants the best for his son but what if his son has an over dose at 14?????what will the late show say then


  536. Lord have mercy Greydog I am sorry to hear about your troubles concerning your son. As a Mom of a 21 and 15 yr old girls I empathize with your time of life….. I will send all yellow light your way…

    BTW I didn’t get trhe joke either, in fact I had to ask my husband what he meant! lol mmmm still not sure,,,,,, anyway… I am sure it’s funnier to me since i loath palin, then it would be to someone who liked, or respected her…. it’s always about perception isn’t it?


  537. Well we’re still learning the damage done to our systems here. Seems a lot of passcodes were changed (nothing dire like our $$ accounts) and we’re trying to find out which ones he accessed. Jeez. And of course stepson thinks this is funny. I’m not laughing as I’ve also been getting LOTS of porno emails – ick. I told SO I may “keep” PookieCat to honor Emma, my Queen Cat, but lord almighty this tech-juvenile delinquent is very very lucky he has his mama’s house to go stay at for a few days. Right now the cost of his foray on our two systems is at $3800 and counting. . .
    Oh, and I’ve finally relogged onto WordPress, change everything around but still having problems with the avatar. . . at least tech-juvy didn’t try to put a racist avatar attached to my email addy


  538. “Palin may have inadvertently given Letterman a platform at a time when it is most valuable; the next few weeks will show how he’s been able to use it.”


  539. Hi Judith the mystery of pookiecat has been solved – see above. Too long a story to deal with now.

    Anyway – friend brought over new collars for the “bad boys”. Emblazoned on the collars: “I will not chase squirrels” Very funny. Not that the dogs will pay attention.

    I’ve been musing about the Letterman/Palin dustup. Anyone here remember the Schuster dustup during the election (I think someone referred to it in one of the above comments) – and he was actually suspended for a couple of weeks. Well, I personally think we’re looking at the same thing. Sorta. Kinda. I actually took Letterman’s remarks to be more indicative of A-Rod’s behavior than anything. Sort of like Madonna having to adopt every 3rd world child she meets regardless of whether or not the parents want their child adopted. . . but I digress. Anyway, the gist of the joke was so bad that IMO it doesn’t even rank up there with lame. If Letterman wants to take potshots at Palin, then have at it. And yes, Bristol is the Candies’ spokeswoman for abstinence (bwhahahaha – so much for that barn door) but I really feel sorry for the girl and wish people would just leave her alone. She was jeered at by the HS students during her first outing as spokesperson – kids were calling her out on her hyprocisy. . . Anyway, this thing would have gone totally unnoticed and unremarked upon, except Mumsie and the Dudester just needed to create some sort of conflict Hollywood style. Whatever. Send Palin home in her F*KMN shoes to get cozy with Exxon. It’s all about her, anyway. okay. gotta get off cuz the sky is really really nasty all of a sudden and the wind is blowing down some branches. . .ciao!


  540. Sarah P & her progeny bore me. My only comment on that subject will be – She is being exiled and dissed by Newt Gingrich’s crowd, who is in the process of trying to grab control of what is left of the party. Letterman made a stupid joke (about Bristol, I do believe) and a piss-poor apology. Sarah is using it to grab an extra week or more of publicity. (And did anybody note her stroll, in front of cameras, across the stage she’d been disinvited from speaking on? If that wasn’t an attention grab-back, I don’t know what is. Security – where’s Security when you need them?) Let the Repubs fight it out on their own. Letterman should just shut up now and let it die. Nuff said.

    The hate speech subject is complicated. It seems to range from “inciting to riot” to “no good person was ever corrupted by…. (Actually, the original saying was “No good girl was ever corrupted by a book” and was used to argue against censorship of sexual material, but the general idea still applies).

    Hate speech does encourage people. Some of them want to be encouraged and any excuse will do. Others feel terrified and powerless, and such speech leads them to feel that terrible action is no more than self defense.

    I think these public hatemongers are partially responsible and probably legally liable to some degree of ‘aiding and abetting’. And they are certainly not newspeople.

    Where do we get our news? Public radio and public tv are good sources, mainly because they spend more than 60 seconds on a story and ofter present more than one side. Print is best of all, in terms of details, but often too expensive to invest in every day. We don’t have cable and, from all accounts, we aren’t missing much.

    The best of the network news are a mere headline service. One of our local channels slants the news right in a laughable manner – alone among all the channels, they reported a budget bill with the line “The Democrats were busy today raising your taxes”. One of the national morning shows stated, in a very concerned manner, that the economy meant that “many parents are opting not to pay for the premium colleges” – I guess in the same manner I opt daily not to quit my job. They never got around to pointing out that it might not actually be an ‘option’. Move along, folks – nothing to learn here.

    We need to get the media out of the hands of a few media moguls and back into the control of the communities. The airways are still technically owned by the public. Technically. Let’s get that back.

    Oh, Pookiecat- squirrels incite dogs to bad, bad dog behavior. I’ve been towed by a leash, on my back, towards a large tree at high speed by a chow in pursuit of “The Great Gray”. The same dog did a Warner Brothers run up the side of a stucco garage, just because the squirrel did it. Her rear end got almost 5 feet off the ground before gravity overcame momentum. Fortunately, she wasn’t much hurt – unlike you.



  541. sometimes i wonder if hate mongers ever do see how their ‘inner venom’ does litterally distort their faces into ugly and grotesque features.

    i am reminded of an event that happened when i was attending college in southern oregon in the late 70s. there was a beer bar down the hill from the campus. they were the first to hire male dancers in the area. “coincidently”, with the male dancers came a contingent of sign carrying christians, young children and adults, protesting the immorality, decadence and evil of the activity taking place inside the beer bar that had no windows. it was wintertime and winds were blowing snow. the bar owner got some guys to drag a burning barrel from the back of the building to the front parking lot and light a fire for the protestors to warm up.

    next day the protest appeared on all the local and state tv channels and made the front page of the local newspaper. that night the parking lot was so packed the protestors had to move their protest closer to the road. the bar owner was so grateful for the assist in advertising the event that he ordered coffee, hot chocolate and donuts to be delivered to the christians, who were parading their protest sign toting children around in the cold winter winds in that mile high college town in southern oregon.

    now my questions are:

    who was/were the better christian/s ?

    anybody out there know the name of the mile high college town and/or the beer bar ?


  542. Sherri:

    Yes Gay Pride Celebrations tend to be somewhat like placing New Orlean’s Mardi Gras or Rio’s Carnivale right smack in the middle of Waco, Texas, or Liberty University!

    That is except in Dallas where the gay establishment has taken a different course. In Dallas, gay parades are a bit more understated (doesn’t take much) and progress has been made by means of the political and economic channels rather than by protest. Gay money (and there’s a lot in Dallas) and gay votes speak much louder than protesters there. Dallas has long had local elected leaders that were “out.” Even the Sheriff of Dallas County.

    I used to be a proud gay resident of Dallas for almost two decades. You advance by playing the opposition’s game and winning.

    Keith in NM


  543. Liz, is it you from the greenroom/alisyn ?


  544. Change of subject….. this I found very interesting….. an article on comparing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to George Bush (the younger of course)…. here’s the link:

    UAW: labels are confining don’t you think? I don’t often agree with you, but your comments are well thought out and thought provoking. It takes all of us, right…. or to coin a phrase, “It takes a village!”

    Keith in NM


  545. Gramma Rock, I’m with you on the druthers!

    Speaking of legislation against hate mongering, if none of you have ever gone to a GLBT Pride Parade, you should experience one at least once in your life time….and June is the month to do so! Yes, there will be one or two floats with skimpily-clad men dancing to their favorite disco tunes…that’s the shot that always makes the newspapers and local news clips. But just like at any other parade, you will also see dozens of floats sponsored by local police departments, fire departments, civic organizations, churches, youth organizations, politicians running in upcoming elections,artists, entertainers, etc. Both the parade marchers and the thousands of spectators will be a diverse crowd of gay and lesbian community members, their families, and straight allies who are honoring and celebrating equality, civil rights, respect, diversity, love, and acceptance. (Disclaimer: I’ve never witnessed public nudity at a Pride Parade, and I’ve never known parade organizers to allow nudity, although I know in some larger cities it has been allowed.) Hundreds of gay and lesbian parents and straight supporters bring their children, as well, and parade organizers work hard to make sure these are family-friendly events. It really is a joyful experience…..

    …..except for the hate-mongers. At every Pride Parade I’ve ever attended (in America) there are large crowds of Bible-thumping protestors holding signs with such lovely sayings as “God Hates You,” “You’re What’s Wrong With America,” “God Allowed 9-11 Because Of You,” “Go To Hell, F*g,” “When You’re Burning In Hell, God Is Going To Laugh,” etc. (Those are the more mild of their signs and banners.)

    Now, they don’t just stand on a street corner and hold thier signs…in fact, I wouldn’t begrudge them the right to do so, as I can find another street from which to spectate. But they walk up and down the parade route, in front of spectators, holding their signs inches from the spectators faces and screaming hateful, condemning, inflammatory epithets into bullhorns. They are relentlessly ugly, hateful, and rude.

    It is such a sad commentary on American society that this is allowed to happen. It doesn’t happen in Canada or in European countries, as this behavior is categorized as a hate crime. Fred Phelps-type demonstrations also don’t happen in those civilized countries, as they also fall under hate crimes. But in the good ‘ole USofA, hate crimes such as these are protected under the guise of “Freedom of Speech.”

    If you live within a reasonable distance of a Pride Celebration, I urge you to go as a spectator. You will come away with a new understanding of what it’s like to be the target of hate-mongers and the courage it takes for both the participants and the spectators to try to honor diversity, respect, and acceptance.


  546. I didn’t read any of the other comments, I just wanted to say OMG (Oh My God) can I adopt you for a grandmother!!!!! one of my facebook friends put a link to here any I loved the first one I will follow and read more I swear


  547. given my druthers, i’ druther have congress legislating against hate mongering in public than the choices made between a woman and her doctor about the woman’s body………

    you go helen and margaret….keep those priviledged caucazoid testosterone carriers/abusers honest : )

    off subject now
    a snappy song website:


  548. UAW Tradesman: Family Values much?


  549. In his reality filthy rap music lyrics and violence in TV shows, movies, and video games directly results in crime and all sorts of other bad behavior but his (and others of his ilk) constant barrage of anti-government, anti-Obama, anti-immigrant, etc. have no bearing on the actions of viewers/listeners.


  550. […] or this: Or maybe this goodie where she covers a multitude of subjects: […]


  551. Sherri, I’m sure Candies, like other companies PR departments, try to put forth a nice moral front, a “spin” if you will, to appear to have a higher motivation than profit. Much like the tobacco industry has done. It does work and convinces the “lite” thinkers and consumers in today’s society. Just another white wash, IMO…


  552. Sherri, I don’t have any respect for Sarah Palin after the recent campaign and her “morals” are switched on and off as she deems what will best benefit her in each circumstance. I have not seen any depth to her and really feel she uses sex and her “redneck charm” to influence a lot of her base. I feel the republicans have lowered the standard by having her represent them, but I also feel society as a whole has lowered its standard. I can only go by the record, as I don’t know her personally…


  553. Poolman, perhaps Sarah Palin should talk to Bristol about the atrociously high rate of sexual exploitation of minors since Bristol is the paid ambassador for a male-owned company that markets 4″ heels and 2″ inseams to tweens and teens.

    Just sayin’


  554. When 4″ heels and shorts with a 2″ inseam are being marketed to tweens and teens, yes, the clothes are slutty.

    No one is bashing Bristol Palin…your 9:15 post said, “tried to find out about Bristol Palin and her advertising job….googled “spokesperson for Candies” and came up with Britney Spears….you didn’t let some left-winger photo shop you maybe….send link….” I simply sent you the link, with a remark on the hypocrisy of her new gig. I’m not saying she’s not sincere — no one knows the sincerity of Bristol Palin accepting money to promote abstinence except Bristol Palin.

    Personally, I highly doubt her sincerity when she says on FOX news that it is unrealistic for teens to be abstinent and the very same week says on NBC and ABC that abstinence is absolutely, positively, 100% what every teen should strive for.

    As far as your 10:55 statement, “…have you forgotten about cut-offs and halter tops…watch Woodstock…free love”…I don’t get the connection. Candies and Bristol are marketing to 12-17 year olds. I would not have wanted my 12 year old at Woodstock or practicing free love regardless of how liberal-minded they might be.

    Anyway, this is a ridiculous discussion…you asked for a link, I provided it, and now you’re trying to spark a debate where none exists. If you’re really interested in a fiery debate, pick a topic more worthy than Bristol Palin or Carrie Prejean. Yawn.


  555. I think this was blown out of proportion and should have just been let go. Of course, now the whole world is aware of it. Like Letterman admits: “Was it in poor taste? Yes…” Did he say rape? No.
    “Any ‘jokes’ about raping my 14-year-old are despicable. Alaskans know it and I believe the rest of the world knows it, too.”
    – Todd Palin
    “Concerning Letterman’s comments about my young daughter (and I doubt he’d ever dare make such comments about anyone else’s daughter): ‘Laughter incited by sexually-perverted comments made by a 62-year old male celebrity aimed at a 14-year-old girl are not only disgusting, but they remind us Hollywood has a long way to go in understanding what the rest of America understands – that acceptance of inappropriate sexual comments about an underage girl, who could be anyone’s daughter, contributes to the atrociously high rate of sexual exploitation of minors by older men who use and abuse others.'”
    – Governor Sarah Palin
    Like I said earlier if you sling mud…
    Can we move on to real news? I hope so…


  556. Megan McCain’s take on Letterman:


  557. UAW, Funny about the job. But she has a kid to support.

    Letterman is a registered Independent.


  558. poolman…
    Bristol must be a Republican…she went out and got a job


  559. poolman…
    there was a lot of people on this site bashing Carrie Prejean for her statement…..I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again….I like Obama’s views on marriage….it took awhile but they finally got rid of her….it makes them look bad not her…and yes I read the small print

    still looking for links showing Letterman is a devoted Republican(is that like Newt or Rush)
    Demmocraddict…where’s the links….kinda like “where’s the beef”


  560. UAW, Bristol may have other motivation. From the link:

    “Maria Dolgetta, a spokeswoman for the foundation, said Palin will be paid for her appearance but declined to disclose how much.”


  561. went to e-bay…candies….
    slutty clothes??????
    have you forgotten about cut-offs and halter tops…watch Woodstock…free love….wasn’t that a liberal thing??????or are you pissed that Bristol is now a liberal…..LMAO


  562. UAW,

    Your link you provided June 12 5:12pm, shows that the new Miss California holds the same views on marriage as the Carrie.

    Maybe you should really READ the fine print, not just the “Big letters”.

    “Tami Farrell, the newly crowned beauty queen who is replacing the ousted Carrie Prejean as Miss California, apparently holds the same view as her predecessor, Carrie Prejean, and President Obama that marriage should be between a man and a woman.”

    Kind of lets the wind out of that sail…


  563. thanks for the links….
    Bristol Palin campaigns against teen pregnancy…

    isn’t that a good thing….

    she now knows that she made a mistake but since she’s Sarah’s daughter let’s kick her a couple more times…
    how many other women wish they’d made a different decision….


  564. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 6/13/09

    Health Care Reform, the Key to Our Fiscal Future!



  565. UAW –

    Not that this interests me, but you asked for a link, & there are plenty of them. Candies has appointed Bristol Palin as its ambassador to prevent teen pregnancy. Maybe their slogan should be, “If you don’t want to be an unwed teenage mother, don’t wear our slutty duds and don’t act like our ambassadors, Bristol Palin and Jamie Lynn Spears or our spokesperson, Britney Spears!”

    Try googling, “Candies+Bristol Palin” if you want more info….although WHY anyone is interested in this is beyond me!


  566. HoneyJoRumples….
    double standard….from huffpo

    On Thursday’s “Tucker” on MSNBC, David Shuster, who was serving as guest-host of the program, made a comment about Chelsea Clinton and the Clinton campaign that was irresponsible and inappropriate. Shuster, who apologized this morning on MSNBC and will again this evening, has been suspended from appearing on all NBC News broadcasts, other than to make his apology. He has also extended an apology to the Clinton family. NBC News takes these matters seriously, and offers our sincere regrets to the Clintons for the remarks.

    it was only a two week suspension but it sure taught him not to F^ck with the left…
    yep…he learned… from Wiki…

    Shuster in his email to them included questions about Carrie Prejean having cosmetic surgery weeks before her competition for Miss USA. His remarks included praises to Perez Hilton, a judge who asked Miss California a question about gay marriage who later said disparaging remarks on his blog. In his remarks to Perez Hilton Shuster said “You are welcome. Your view of Miss CA’s intellect (and the lack thereof) is spot on.”

    liberal media is king!!!!!


  567. greytdog – so sorry to hear about your fall!! Will maybe give everyone a lesson on how to n ot go up tall ladders with out a “spotter” down below!!

    Hope the rest of you are recovering nicely. Losing eyesight is scary. Take care .
    It must have been a ppphase of the moon or something.

    I spoke wwwwith an old friend yesterday that I have not talked to in sometime.She is probably a deveoted follower of FAux as her opinions are blaming all this financial to before Georgie.
    I do n ot understand people who are sso set in their opinions and cannot see anyother way.


  568. I don’t know why you have to insult me by calling me a Republican…..I’m pro choice…..I’m also for the death penalty….I like Obama’s views on marriage…..I don’t like his Supreme court pick…..what I don’t understand is Letterman being a Republican….WTF….

    Jean….I don’t think getting kicked off as Miss California is going to make a difference…we’ve got a California also ran as a gov here in MI.


  569. Yes, thank you Sherri. He also said “well, my mother was only a year older than that when she had me” and didn’t want the campaign or the coverage of it to go down that road. But yes, republicans, their selective hearing, selective memory, selective understanding, selective fact-utilizing, just absolutely astounding to me.


  570. LiladyNY….
    tried to find out about Bristol Palin and her advertising job….googled “spokesperson for Candies” and came up with Britney Spears….you didn’t let some left-winger photo shop you maybe….send link….


  571. HoneyJo,

    I would add the Obama said kids are off limits as a direct response to a question he was asked about Bristol Palin’s preganancy! How kind of him to protect Palin & her daughter…yet he still manages to be crucified by UAW and similar-minded right-wing republicans!


  572. “HoneyJoRumples, The Palin-Letterman dispute is bigger than the two of them. Reaction to David’s joke represents media’s hyprocracy. It is fine to mock conservatives but not to go after liberals. After the Clintons complained about Rush and several others’ snarkey comments about Chelsea, she was basically off limits. President Obama also asked the press not to discuss his children. ”

    LOL Wow!!! Again, James, it just stuns me how republicans have selective hearing and selective udnerstanding as well. Really, that study I read that said people born with brains that work on a very linear level, people how aren’t good at abstract thinking, gravitate to the republican party, was right. You guys just refuse to get it.

    When the Clintons asked the press, and in fact all media, including Saturday Night Live, to lay off their daughter, Chelsea was only 12 YEARS OLD at the time. Only 12 YEARS OLD. She was still a little girl. And the only thing she had done to bring such media scrutiny upon her was to be homely. They weren’t making fun at her behavior, or any predicament she had gotten herself into , they were making fun of the fact that she was ugly. She was still a minor, still a child, and still was in the spotlight soley and only because of her being the President’s daughter. Bristol Palin, on the other hand, is an adult and is a celebrity in her own right, not just for being the daughter of Sarah Palin, but because she has chosen to make the morning talk show circuit spouting abstinence while simultaneously gazing adoringly at her precious little miracle (if you ask me, she is most likely actually encouraging teen girls to run out and get a little miracle of their own). Even when she ws just Sarah Palin’s daughter, she was gossip-worthy not just because of some natural physical attribute that she had no control over, like Sarah’s son Trig. I would bet you a year’s salary that David Letterman never made a joke about Trig. Jokes about Trig are not funny. Bristol Palin was gossip-worthy because she got knocked up at 17. She was an unwed, 17 year old high school kid. Despite how far we’ve come as a society, that’s still scandalous. It still makes a statement about a girls’ moral fiber and her character, and her sexual discrimination, whether we like it or not. And even so, David Letterman did not make a joke about her until she 1) became a legal adult and 2) stepped out from behind her mother’s skirt and became a public figure in her own right, and not just for being Sarah Palin’s kid. She has become the national spokesgirl for the “Do As I Say, Not As I Did” movement, so now, as far and fair comment law is concerned, she is in fact fair game. If you still want to call Chelsea ugly, you are now totally free to do so because she is fair game now as an adult in her own right.

    Bristol, having established herself as a girl who apparently drops her pants for any self-proclaimed “F***ing redneck” that comes along and isn’t even smart enough to use a condom every time, and A-Rod establishing himself as a philanderer, rumored having wrecked his marriage over affairs with several women including singer Madonna. To suggest that with the two of them coming within close proximity to each other for 7 innings worth of time, Bristol would end up pregnant AGAIN, I’m sorry, yes it’s base, not in the best taste, but FUNNY.

    And I must correct you on another little error in your post. Obama did not ask the press to not discuss HIS children. After so many people were reporting on Bristol and her pregnancy, President Obama said “kids are off limits” and was talking about Sarah Palin’s and John McCain’s kids as well as his own kids. He did it primarily to protect Bristol, not his own children. The press wasn’t saying anything about his children.


  573. Good to see such lively discussion from so many regulars and a few newbies, too! For the most part, I’ve enjoyed reading the comments… scrolled on by a few, of course. UAW, you’re defense of Palin is totally slanted and subjective, yet that’s what you always rail against. You ARE the double-standard! Nevertheless, please give us an update on yor wife, as we’re all concerned.

    Greytdog, so sorry for the trouble w/ the stepson…..perhaps he should be the one sleeping int he doghouse for awhile & the pooches can nest in his room?

    Jean, we’re ready for another history lesson!


  574. HoneyJoRumples…
    ” Again, Playboy, I couldn’t believe. I was completely shocked that he would even pass this along to me. Another one was a gay movie premiere that he wanted me to attend incognito. He actually said he wanted me to wear a hat and go in disguise and attend this movie premiere promoting gay marriage and then come out with a statement the next day saying that Carrie Prejean attended a gay movie premiere.

    It just doesn’t seem right, Larry, does it?”

    What if she’d been ordered to be in an XXX movie????

    It took awhile but they got rid of her because of her beliefs in marriage…you can fool yourself but not me…


  575. is a fairly reliable, unbiased news source with a tagline that reads, “We’re like Fox News. Only smart. And not crazy. And we don’t lie.”

    I’ve never watched or listened to FOX news, O’Reilly, Buchanan, Coulter, or the rest of the gang. Occasionaly, I hear snippets of thier outrageous comments on other news shows, but I would never intentionally tune into anything they have to say, as that just empowers them.

    For news, I rely on PBS, NPR, BBC, Voice of America,, or For entertainment, I tune into CNN or read USA Today.



    watch the emotion-packed apology…


  577. “how about the new Miss California thinks marriage is between a man and a woman…..(it was in large letters)….the reason they got rid of the first one….I did say I was changing the subject….”

    Just another example of how republicans just don’t, or won’t, get it. I don’t know if their brains are just incapable of understanding or if they are just so stubborn that they refuse to understand.

    Carrie Prejean had not been in the news for weeks. We had all but forgotten about her until Donald Trump fired her the other day. He did not fire her out of public pressure, or because of her very inarticulate, very undiplomatic, meandering, emotionally immature answer to her quiz question. He fired her for one reason and one reason onlyl – she was not doing her job. She neglected going to appearances that she was contractually obligated to do and insisted on speaking at events that were not run by the pageant people first. You don’t do your job, you lose it. It’s really just that simple. YOU DON’T DO YOUR JOB, YOU LOSE IT. What about that is so hard for you to understand, UAW?


  578. whirled peas….


  579. I am a forensic psychotherapist, attached to the International Criminal Court, working for the past decade in Bosnia with war survivors. Been to
    Africa many times, worked for the UN in Sudan and in India plus Sri Lanka. Rwanda with the genocide of 1 million people mostly women and children slaughtered started with a radio broadcast, another Bill O”Reilly, Fox News, the hate radio and media are male dominated- patriarchal which in reality is not what males are-

    I faithfully follow your blog since it is an anchor for me and I do not feel so alone in seeing the hate, the fear and insecurities– and how you hold whatever the transgressor accountable without malice and only truth as your guide.

    When I grow up I want to be you,

    Danica Anderson

    Join me today for organic conversation on the Kolo: Women’s Cross Cultural Collaboration- war crimes survivors heal trauma 701 231 6703 today 9-11 central June 13, 2009- You can both web stream the show at


  580. I think people haven’t realized that Dave did in fact apologize and Palin has never apologized for a comment in her life.
    We also need to remember that Letterman has been a devoted republican. He only picks on the ones that he feels are idiot boobs ( Bush & Palin)
    Letterman didn’t even need to bring up her daughter, Palin alone gives enough material every time she opens her idiot mouth!


  581. whirled peas….
    funny what comes up on Kos…


  582. poolman….
    liberal hosts(Olberman)don’t need guests to look like sputtering idiots….


  583. Words matter!

    Right-wing media and the fringe: A growing history of violence (and denial)



  584. New reader here. I just love this blog! And since Sarah P. has popped up again, we need more chop chop – anyone have a spare turkey chipper?



    “Remember when it was the liberal guests who ended up looking like sputtering morons on the O’Reilly Factor? Tonight it was the host. Joan Walsh turned the tables.”


  586. M&H got front paged at
    DKos for Buchanan thread.

    Rum and Coke FRIDAY!

    Keep up the great work ladies.



  587. Hi gang and Greytdog,

    Oh boy!!!! You’ve got a whopdoozer on your hands! I admire you for keeping your hands tightly clasped behind your back so you couldn’t smack the kid up side of his head – especially after the “Whatever……. “ crack.

    We have two 14 year-old-grandsons that blow my mind in their techie prowess with all these electronic gadgets that I can’t even turn on! Your stepson obviously is very smart with plenty of latent talents. I hope you and your SO can find ways to turn those attributes into constructive activities. He could have a bright future ahead of him, if……….. But, looks like you both have your work cut out for you. I wish you lots of luck!!!!! Keep us posted.

    Like you needed all this on top of your ‘unplanned descent’ injuries. Sheesh!


    Auntie Jean


  588. […] My Big Fat Ass Margaret, whatever happened to common sense?  I eat a lot of pie.  I have a fat ass.  I get the connection.  You […] […]


  589. Hi gang and UAW,

    Gee, we don’t need to hang out at the checkout at the supermarket reading the National Inquirer. We can just read all about it in the comfort of our own homes in front of the computer.

    Has anyone noticed that there is an important election going on in Iran and that both sides are claiming victory? You don’t suppose that Amadiangaflertighajad would resort to doing anything to throw the election do you? Iran is pretty much a theocracy, you know. Does Iran have a Supreme Court?

    This election could have big consequences for stability in the region and for that matter, worldwide.

    Also has anyone noticed that gas prices are going up again by leaps and bounds?

    I was just going out the door to go to physical therapy when I heard a snippet of the VITAL news about Miss California and something about being stripped of her title (by Donald Trump?). UAW, could you clarify the monumental details of this development? If true, it could mess up her chances of running for governor of California. Well, maybe not.




  590. BO is still spreading his brand of “truth”…


  591. Jeez. I go away for a few hours and the conversation has lurched off in another direction. It sure is nice to be able to freelance it if you don’t like the subject but I’m like James, with one good eye, it is a chore to read through all the chaff to get to the wheat.
    Sarah Palin is such a boring subject.


  592. What are you asking for the bridge…. seems mines out!

    Honestly, if we were all civilized people we’d only watch PBS!

    Keith in NM


  593. Yeah, we enjoy McLaughlin group. Usually a very lively debate. Comes on 2 hrs from now here.


  594. had McLaughlin Group on….a lot better than MSNBC


  595. I got a bridge for sale also….


  596. UAW, I don’t only read the large letters. Sometimes the fine print really is more important…


  597. she (beauty ueen) is on cnn as we speak


  598. WOW! UAW, you’ve got a serious bee up your bonnet! Actually the reason “they” got rid of the first one was because she failed to fulfill the duties inherent in being the pageant whiner, I mean, winner 🙂 But spin away! Still no traction darling’.


  599. how about the new Miss California thinks marriage is between a man and a woman…..(it was in large letters)….the reason they got rid of the first one….I did say I was changing the subject….


  600. What is this the Jerry Springer Show now?


  601. UAW, I don’t get your point regarding Carrie (former Miss California) The Donald makes the decision. He owns the right. Per the Donald:

    “I told Carrie she needed to get back to work and honor her contract with the Miss California USA Organization and I gave her the opportunity to do so,” Trump said. “Unfortunately it just doesn’t look like it is going to happen.”


  602. ilikepie2….
    now your comparing O’rielly and pals to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton


  603. I know…. put Glenn Beck on at 11:35!!!!!


  604. Since Helen mentioned fire, I liken O’Reilly and pals to guests at a barbecue who have a can of lighter fluid in their pocket. As soon as no one looking they dump as much of it as they can on the coals, when the conflagration begins they turn away and take no responsibility for the flames that get out of control and burn down your house. Why… because in their teeny tiny brains they didn’t START the fire they only encouraged it.


  605. where’s Leno when you need him!!!!!


  606. Anyone in the public by choice is going to be subject to criticism and ridicule. I’m sure our president has had to explain to his young daughters that because they hear rants that he is a Muslim, a terrorist, a non-American, a socialist, to name some of the “nicer” labels he has been called, that they should not hate back. And don’t believe what people say. And don’t let it get to you. That is part of the territory in today’s “civilized” society.

    Sarah has publicly said much that is lies and hateful. She has really been her own worst enemy. Denigrating her character. Showing a true lack of common sense and intellect – even on record! She should expect some flack in return. What’s the old saying, “if you’re gonna sling mud, expect to get dirty” ? There are some more vulgar, but you get the drift. She has put her whole family in the public’s eye, and therefore should not balk when they are the topic of jokes. It was her choice.

    Letterman is a late night comedian. He has always been edgy. That is his style. If his network is okay with his comedy and the sponsors are okay, that pretty much is “end of the story”. Imus’s network and sponsors were not. That is the major difference. And the time slot. Remember, we all vote with our viewership. We can turn the television and the radio off or go to another channel.

    It’s sad to think this is the “news” for today. It’s all over all the networks. God help us!


  607. UAW–how quick you are to assume I was defending Letterman! I was not. I was offering a possible theory as to why–if this was not a totally crass, manipulative feigned outrage–the Palins might be angry.

    Actually, I would be equally offended at inappropriate jokes, regardless of the affiliation of the person at whom they were directed. However, there are people who live one way and present themselves wholly differently. The Palins are among them. To my knowledge, Letterman has never suggested he was anything he was not.


  608. oops…


  609. UAW,

    Oh, That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.


  610. UAW, I’m confused. Last link went to Ashcroft vs. FBI pre 9/11…

    ??? Miss California?

    What kind of drugs are those you are on?


  611. poolman….
    I got my ass kick(4 to 1)because I bought a carton of white milk and pissed off some other “students” because I didn’t get the non-white milk….they said black milk….it didn’t matter….they saw an opportunity to kick some white ass and took it…the black milk was an excuse…OK