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Posted by: Helen Philpot | March 5, 2012

Rush saw his shadow today. Six more weeks of stupidity…

Margaret, evidently you and I are sluts, and so are the majority of women who live in this country. Well good for us. I have always said that well-behaved women rarely make history. I have also said that Rush Limbaugh is a big fat pig. Pigs and sluts. Sadly, that’s what this has all boiled down to.

In 2008, the Democratic Party had a tough decision to make. Would we give America its first female President or would we give American its first African-American President? Would we turn the corner on sexism in this country or racism? Would we finally rise above hate and bigotry and make a statement that we truly are the land of the free? Either way, we would profoundly change the world for the better. And that we did. At the same time, over in the Republican camp, that party was trying to decide if you could see Russia from Sarah Palin’s kitchen window.

This year the Republicans have another tough decision to make as well. Will they decide that Mormonism is a cult or will they decide that women who use birth control are sluts? It’s a tough call. But either way we will profoundly change the definition of just how stupid is stupid. God Bless America.

Margaret, the Republicans had a meeting about birth control and didn’t include a single woman – kind of like the Catholic Church but without the funny hats. It’s like inviting Rush Limbaugh to a Jenny Craig convention or like Sarah Palin calling a family meeting and forgetting to bring the early pregnancy test sticks. Why bother?

I’ll bet you a dollar to a donut that most of the Republican men at that meeting have a bottle of Viagra in their medicine cabinet. Why is it so hard to understand that birth control makes for better healthcare for women? And honestly why is it so hard to see that Rush is a college drop out drug addict who – like most addicts – will say anything for a buck. As entertainment that’s comedy gold, but his being a powerful Republican spokesperson ought to tell you just how low the Republican Party has sunk. You just can’t make this kind of bullshit up.

I wish November would get here already so Obama can go back to fixing what’s wrong with this country.

I mean it. Really.

(You can now follow Helen on Twitter @HelenPhilpot)

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  49. Nagic stole that line from someone who recently kicked his arse. Just saying,

  50. I bought alcohol today. I wasn’t required to provide identification. Turns out they don’t care who I am! Who knew? They just want evidence I’m of a certain age and my face tells all the story they need.

    Step round the flaming straw man. Teh straw, it burns.

  51. anonymous you really are a nasty piece of work. Why don’t you put your tinfoil hat on and post somewhere else.

  52. Check mate.

  53. Didnt realize we were in a middle school argument. Whose on first worked for Abbot and Costello, not so much here. We can continue this after you graduate.

  54. Focus, please. I asked you first. How does extending equal rights to one group take away from the group that already has them?

  55. We can try one question at a time to help keep you on track, Lets start with how you think the separation of church and state applies here.

  56. Did you go to school in the US? I’d heard the US education system had flaws. I didn’t realize it was so pervasive. Civics, the law, logic, history, spelling and grammar all seem to be a problem for you. Is there any recourse in your country for the way you have been shortchanged?

  57. I’m not sure where you’re trying to go but I’m pretty sure it’s away from explaining how extending equal rights to a group of people hurts the rights of a different group of people who already have them.

    Are you saying some people are more equal than others?

  58. I disagree.The argument is that they are wrong BECAUSE it comes from a religious perspective. The fact they are being called religions makes this absolutely clear.

    As far as separation of church and state. Could you explain to me how you think this applies here?

    Go after, in the U.s. anyways is to peruse, to seek out. The phrase is readily defined if you google it.

  59. Sorry. Equivalency OR hypocrisy.

  60. There is no equivalency of hypocrisy there, though.

    Group A is seeking a fundamental right for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (ref Declaration of Independence) and equality (ref Bill of Rights). Group B is attempting to deny them those rights based on religious beliefs, which contradicts separation of church and state.

    If Group A gets those rights, what right of Group B does that violate? Also, too, please define “go after”.

  61. Anon their ability to go after the things they believe in for no other reason that their beliefs come from their religion. People like elsie complaint about what is being done by gays and lesbians is exactly what she and others like her are doing to religious people. I find that to be hypocritical.

  62. I’m sorry, nagic. I read her post and her post doesn’t answer my question about what you said. What civil rights of religious people are being trounced and attacked? Thank you.

  63. Anon read By: elsie09 on May 11, 2012
    at 5:32 AM

  64. Please explain what civil rights of religious people are being trounced and attacked. Thank you.

  65. elsie09
    I would ask you to consider the hypocrisy of your argument on this subject. In fighting for the rights of gays and lesbians, you are trouncing and attacking the rights of the religious people.

  66. Here’s the bottom line:

    If a bunch of religious nuts can vote away your fundamental civil rights,

    Here’s the bottom line Obama HAS voted away your civil rights, more than once, and is attempting to do so again as we speak.

  67. How’s the corporate welfare system working out? Thank you, JP Morgan Chase.

  68. A new post over at Jim’s blog this week:


    “…I have yet to hear any opposition to same-sex marriage that doesn’t, sooner or later (usually sooner), invoke somebody’s God. Because the simple truth of the matter is that when you strip away all the bullshit, what it comes down to is a bunch of selfish b*st*rds attempting to force their religious beliefs on the rest of us.

    “In the United States, if you can’t frame your argument without invoking your religion, you don’t in point of fact actually have an argument, you’re just being an asshole…”

    “Here in America, denying any legally consenting pair of adults the right to marry because it’s against the tenets of somebody’s Bronze Age belief system is no different whatsoever than snatching random citizens off the street and forcing them to join your church. Denying gay people the right to marry because Christians don’t like it is no different whatsoever from Muslims demanding that pork be outlawed nationwide and that all American women should have to go about with their faces covered. It’s absolutely no different from American Catholics demanding that nobody can eat meat on Fridays because some senile old pedophile in a pointy hat says it makes Jesus cry. The only, the only, time that religion should have any bearing on anybody’s civil rights is if it affects you directly, i.e. if you don’t agree with same-sex marriage because you believe that two thousand years ago some wild-eyed hippy with delusions of grandeur and a pocket full of magic fairy dust said it was bogus, dude, fine, then you have the absolute right not to marry anybody of the same sex as yourself – but that’s as far as it goes. You don’t get to tell the rest of us what to do. Period. And don’t start in with that Christian morality bullshit either, or I will spend the next ten posts describing numerous examples of your religion’s endless immoral hypocrisy in intimate detail – and we’ll start with the aforementioned guy in the pointy hat.

    “Here’s the bottom line:

    If a bunch of religious nuts can vote away your fundamental civil rights, then your rights are not self-evident, inalienable, or endowed by God. Quod erat demonstrandum.

    “It’s really just this simple: if men can dictate your civil rights based on their religious and/or political beliefs, then God isn’t the all powerful deity he claims to be and any rights he supposedly endows are worthless trash, or the founding principles of the United states – i.e. the promise of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all citizens – are utter and complete bullshit, or (and here’s a thought) you are wrong.

    “Want to take a guess as to which is more likely?….”

    (BTW, I altered one word in that quote because I suspect that it is probably on Matthew’s short list of a few forbidden words here. Of course, Jim Wright didn’t hesitate to write the word in its original form.)

  69. Hypocrite, Integrity? and just plain STUPIDITY!!! Got to love those Conservatives.


  70. Who is Mitt Romney? The truth about the auto bailout and Mittens!! Mitt is such a bad liar.


  71. Isnt that your motto Delurk? You are probably the biggest hypocrite ;Ive had the displeasure of meeting. on here. You talking anything integrity and doing what you preach is like a rapist standing up for women’s rights.

  72. ‘Red State Socialism’ graphic says GOP-leaning states get lion’s share of federal dollars


    Hear the roar – do as I say, not as I do! Apparently it’s just crap that it’s a Liberal thing.

  73. alaskapi
    An awfully lengthy answer for a simplistic act on the part of Puppet. Her silence after the fact speaks volumes.

    You said: Since you didn’t say what your math prof would disagree with I can’t answer to that and I’m not sure it matters here.

    And again you had said: As mathematics is not authored or owned as other works are, it is rather silly to talk about plagarizing an equation- especially one no one laid claim to as their own…eh?

    This is to which my answer was pointed at and that my Prof would object to.

  74. ahh the dynamic duo of talking and saying nothing. Welcome back poolman..glad to see no additional IQ points have been wasted on you. Thanks for your remarkable contribution as always.

  75. I had already pegged the hydra.

    It would be one who was relegated to the trash bin and who you were threatened with being remembered at Christmas. Seems bitter about the trash bin though.

  76. It depends on what a win constitutes, farsight.

    And the whiner winner is…

    Tex and his nagic hydra. :grin:

  77. poolman, I take it we have a winner here???

  78. nagic-
    the 4 places I found that question with the formula form
    and the specific parameters to solve it within were all presentations of the question for assistance in solution by others. No presentation was made by any of the 4 questioners that this included original work of their own and given that they were all asking for assistance solving the problem itself, it is not likely they would claim ownership of the idea behind the form.Matter of fact, it set me to wondering if they were doing homework and wanted help …
    PFesser is correct as to what constitutes academic and professional plagarism- it is taking someone else’s work, be it lazy, inept, or intentional and passing it off as one’s own work. Included in that notion is that one benefits in some way that is measurable- passing a class, a job raise, honors, prestige, whatever.
    I don’t think an attempt was made in cutting and pasting a question posed in multiple places by functionally anonymous commenters to solve a specific math problem is taking someone else’s work . It isn’t work in any meaningful or useful sense of the word.
    Plagarism in mathematics is certainly possible and great battles have been waged over the years there. Newton and Leibniz and the calculus being one of the biggest.
    One fellow says Descartes was under fire too


    Einstein has been heavily criticized, there are many more.
    Some like the vindication of Leibniz after his death, when cooler heads looked at all the information, point to the necessity of being very careful with getting too huffy about inventing/discovering in mathematics and solid , solid peer review of everything and everyone involved being necessary to establish original authorship -insofar as possible.
    Once you move into our more modern notions of how to handle intellectual property most especially copyright and patent- the whole thing gets much murkier as relates to mathematics. With very few exceptions formulas may not be patented themselves, though they may be a portion of the reasoning and proof of why the thing, process, whatever should be/was granted patent. Copyrighting a formula is skinky too and there are a lot of ifs ands or buts as to what constitutes a copyrightable formula.
    Since you didn’t say what your math prof would disagree with I can’t answer to that and I’m not sure it matters here.
    i still say this whole upset dealie here has nothing to do with intellectual property and everything to do with folks slinging barbs in ill temper.

  79. Me thinks Tex has honored us with his fantastic personality once again. That explains the love fest, eh?

    And as usual, you would be wrong, Cynthia. It’s the story of your miserable existence, from birth to death.

    I haven’t been to this sh!t hole in months. Looks like Lurch is still propagandizing after another Tuesday night ass kicking with a happy face, you’re your typical whining self and Juneau is still sucking plagiarizing hind teat. Still as reprehensible as ever.

    You think I’m going to post as anonymous and not take credit for you not being able to find both massive butt cheeks with your nasty, grubby little hands after I slap your nasty ass? Didn’t I teach you anything last time you slithered off? Now you’ve gone and hurt my feelings. :cry:

    Good Lawd. Somebody here believes that JimmieJoe at Stone Head Kettle is brave and doesn’t suffer fools easily? :shock: That wannabee Rambo goon is the biggest coward on the internet, and with those ghastly personal pictures, possibly the ugliest too. Talk about a superficial crowd. I’m shocked the blog isn’t accompanied by a needed laugh track. I’ve seen modern art pieces that look better than that croaking potato peeler, make believe soldier. What did he carry? A stick in his mouth?

    I wish November would get here already so Obama can go back to fixing what’s wrong with this country.

    No fear, Helen. He is. Obama is going to be frogmarched to the curb in about six months, and kicked in the bony ass back to ACORN community organizer, providing the perfect fix for the country – even the libs here. Thanks for staying afoot!

  80. narrow minded and of no importance……kind of like another minister……rev Wright

  81. Who is Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson and why would anyone want to make a post about this guy? He is one narrow minded individual of no importance.

  82. Helen! Your next post could practically write itself! Get a load of this tool!!

    Fox News contributor laments ‘mistake’ of letting women vote

  83. My math Professor vehemently disagrees with you Pi. mathematical equations are the basis for many of today’s inventions and are considered intellectual property. One of the products i sell uses a mathematical formula based in hydrodynamics that we have patented.

  84. So Pfesser…who’d you vote for?????


  85. No PFesser- those Buicks are discrete and individual Buicks amongst a total of Buicks so that logic doesn’t track as relates to a specific equation with a request to solve it within specific parameters which appears multiple times across the “tubes” and other locations,
    My own search of the equation was for ownership of the equation- I will defer to anyone who is a better searcher who can find a source that claims ownership of that particular “function of the form f(x)=a+bcos(cx) that is tangent to the line y=1 at the point (0,1), and tangent to the line y=x+3/2-pi/4 at the point (pi/4, 3/2).”
    Plagarism of mathematical work IS a different beastie on many fronts- to insist that credit be made for some unnamed commenter on physicsforums or yahoo answers who is asking for a solution stretches it too far by any measure.

    Within the context of previously offered theories and proofs offered by nagic , the whole thing is nothing more than an ill-tempered swipe at ill tempered theories and proofs. Period.
    You are welcome to see it however you like but I do not see the way it was presented as a claim of ownership of the question- merely a slapback , good, bad, or in between- merely a slapback.

  86. Mitt Romney saved GM (General Motors) and also killed Osama Bin Laden!
    Stephen Colbert did the research, so it must be true?


  87. AlaskaPi, I enjoyed your math comments. Once upon a time I was a math geek. I, too, see beauty in math. You don’t very often talk to people who “get” that. Usually you just get looks of concern for your mental health. :D I have forgotten a lot but still remember enough to be able to impress the kids when they need help. Moving from math to arithmetic… I found this interesting. Lots of assumptions I wouldn’t yet make but I’m not a poll wonk.

    The 2012 Election Is Obama’s To Win — Just Look At The RCP Electoral Map


  88. Pi opined:

    “As mathematics is not authored or owned as other works are, it is rather silly to talk about plagarizing an equation- especially one no one laid claim to as their own…eh?”

    Nonsense. Baloney is a funny thing; no matter how thin you slice it, it’s still baloney. All anyone had to do is say is, disclaimer: this is not my problem, instead of implying authorship and having the solution at hand. The best thing, when you get caught with your pants down is to say, “sorry” and move on.

    “That particular equation and its solution is all over the internet- yes. And in textbooks and likely on many a chalkboard.”

    So? By that logic, if you steal a Buick, it’s OK because there are a LOT of Buicks?

    “You want to get ticked about an irritated swipe at a commenter’s intelligence, fine., but what’s up with trying to make something else out of it?”

    I made it out to be dishonesty. That it is.

  89. I see NC made it official: no gay marriage

    Bloody backwoods goobers.

    In WV we used to say, “Thank God for Mississippi.”
    Add North Carolina to that.

  90. So tell me, NOP, what is YOUR solution to your problem? It will be interesting to see if you make the same mistake (which means you simply plagarized the whole thing) or if you have a real solution.

    As mathematics is not authored or owned as other works are, it is rather silly to talk about plagarizing an equation- especially one no one laid claim to as their own…eh?
    That particular equation and its solution is all over the internet- yes. And in textbooks and likely on many a chalkboard
    You want to get ticked about an irritated swipe at a commenter’s intelligence, fine., but what’s up with trying to make something else out of it?
    My own calculus is 40 years behind me as is the linear algebra and the whole schtick. Wonderful beautiful stuff- most of which I can’t remember anymore… sigh. I loved vector calculus- that I remember, the math I don’t :-)
    I really truly loved watching elegant solutions fall right out of calculus problems- the mathematical study of change- especially on the heels of studying the ever messy riemann sum stuff- yarg!!!! bleah!

  91. What is the result austerity budgets during an economic downturn? Answer: Sinking economies where the few get richer and the middle class gets crushed.


  92. As always, Rachel is right on the money JunJ. I would just love to give that woman a big hug! Thanks for the post.

  93. MITT ROMNEY – Mr. Etch a sketch

  94. FORWARD! I like that.

    Probably lifted from Captain Smith. Allegorical, too.

  95. Interesting: Anderson Cooper caught, as one poster put it, in a random act of journalism.

    I didn’t think he had it in him – at least not in *that* sense of the word.

    You go, boy !

  96. “FORWARD”

    Stonekettle Station has a new post up:

    A snippet:


    I probably wouldn’t have gone with Forward myself. In my mind it’s not really as inspiring as the campaign’s previous one word slogan, Hope. Plus, the word hope only has one syllable, forward has two and the campaign risks loosing the undecided vote with such a lengthy message. If they were going to use a direction as a campaign slogan, for the majority of Americans it probably would have been better if they just grunted and pointed (of course pointing is fraught with risk too, you don’t want to get caught gesturing towards Canada, or worse Mexico. You know, on second thought, never mind).”


    From Jim Wright, he who truly knows how to hand someone his ass. He has absolutely no tolerance for trolls! One in particular!

  97. Wow 14,000+ in an 18,000 capacity at the May 5 Obama rally in Ohio!!!

    There are liars out there who would have you think differently!

  98. PFesser
    Considering who we are dealing with I assumed deceit out of the gate. I copied and pasted the problem into Google and bam it came up. I copy and pasted the answer to see what her response would be. Not surprising Puppet and others went dead silent…guess you can be embarrassed even online.

    After I do this sales call I will sit down and work it out.or at least attempt it. I kept all my math books from college so I am sure I can rush up real quick. Give Puppet time to lick her wounds.

    Rutherford’s is a heady group. Rather enjoying this brand of conversation. It is a shame we cannot have that level of dialog on here to get the Liberal perspective. Life affords me the luxury of having the time to engage a great many people in discussions on political topics. I am sad to report this blog is not an isolated pocket of closed mindedness. Even 1 on 1 or in small group settings, the Liberals I speak with almost immediately shut down, or rather than answer a question directly, ask personal questions(ie answer a question with a question) that in most would consider somewhat rude to ask of someone.

    I am very fascinated how this group mentality seems almost universal. I have and am spending a good deal of time trying to find what brings this out in people of this political bent. People I have known for years that I have considered to be very normal, level headed individuals seem to change almost instantaneously before my eyes the first time i question a political belief. My current hypothesis at the moment is the media. I have to believe for this to be so pervasive that only something like the media could facilitate this kind of group mindset.

  99. anon –

    notice the crickets re: exposing NOP’s little puzzle as having been plagarized. As you might have gathered, not too many math majors in this little corner of heaven; I criticise myself for not having suspected it right out of the box. I still want to work on it when I get a chance; I am stuck on the expansion of cos (nx). I think I’ll just substitute cos (Q) and see where that goes. My math is pretty rusty.

    re: Rutherford’s – tough bunch, but I would say good guys all. Couple of gals too – educated and smart and tough also. Put on your big-boy pants; it gets rough, but there’s no whining there; it’s a nice change of pace.

    re: Krugman’s formula for fixing the economy. I have probably read a lot more Krugman than you have, JJoe, since I have a subs to the NYTimes. His formula is, simply put, more of the same that Obama and his minions have been doing for the past four years – print more money. The Bernank and others have printed in those four years an additional quantity of money twice that already existing since the Republic began. (for you math majors, NOP, that means he has tripled the money supply).

    The Chicago school of Econ predicts that such shenanigans will lead to tremendous inflation, with the de-facto transfer of YOUR savings to the government as your money becomes less valuable. Instead of manning-up and stopping the digging that put us in the hole, we are digging faster. It also predicts a very long period of high unemployment. Fortunately, we don’t know what the inflation rate or unemployment really is, since the govt has changed how they report it in order to not worry anybody.

    Good plan.

  100. More Mittens!!!! With respect and admiration – of course.


  101. Who is Mittens Romney? Time to take a look.


  102. Interesting choice by Hussein Obama considering his championing the so called war on women. Obama Launches Campaign with Alleged Wife-Abuser Sherrod Brown


    And in other news….As the economy continues to slowly recover, the number of available jobs is much lower than the number of people looking, prompting young adults to move back in with their parents in numbers not seen in decades. Rebecca Jarvis and Jeff Glor speak with Jack Otter and Dr. Jennifer Hartstein about the trend’s impact on the people involved — and the economy. Guess this is one way to keep families together. Keep them so broke they cannot afford to live apart.

  103. A sign of things to come. Hussein Obama is in trouble. But we already knew that.


  104. They are terrorizing the towns because Obama sold them guns.

  105. I just talked to a fellow who spent a month in Mexico visiting family. He said the drug cartels are terrorizing the towns. His family was quite afraid. Legalize pot and help stop the drug cartels and their terror campaign against the people of Mexico.
    Farsight: Funny: I might spend a few days up to a week in the Tacoma, Puyallup, Friday Harbor area visiting relatives this summer.

    Here is a link from Paul Krugman on how to fix the economy.

  106. 5 Special Interest Groups That Help Keep Marijuana Illegal

    1.) Police Unions
    2.) Private Prisons Corporations
    3.) Alcohol and Beer Companies
    4.) Pharmaceutical Corporations
    5.) Prison Guard Unions


  107. My husband LOVED it too farΔ. And I must admit, for not being my kind of movie, I enjoyed it as well.

    Fingers crossed M&H post again soon. There is a lot of fertile stuff out there that would make for a great post!

    Enjoy your day everyone. xo

  108. ‘Avengers’ Box Office: $200 Million Opening Weekend Breaks Records

    Great entertaining movie. My wife and I went to see this yesterday. If you want to be thoroughly entertained and like action adventure movies, I highly recommend this movie. My wife and I agree with the Rotten tomatoes score of 94. For movies like this we go to a fantastic theater in Gig Harbor Washington. All DLP projectors with stadium seating. We saw it in 3D but might have actually preferred it in 2D.

    Howard Downey Jr. has grown into an incredible actor. He alone is worth the price of admission!

  109. Time to educate each other!! Here is a good report explaining, quite well, how the 50 wealthiest are paying off politicos to give the Billionaires – Billions in tax relief. (The middle class pick up the tab for these tax cuts btw.)


  110. Ha ha. I’ll Have Another


  111. and fyi I am checking out the Rutherford’s blog. Just viewing for the moment to get a feel for what the group is like,.

  112. PFesser, I really think all of this is just a defense mechanism. Maybe Ive given these ladies too much credit and maybe they really have nothing to offer other than the rhetoric handed down to them by their husbands. I had given them credit for the ability to think on their own and offer up their own point of view. Maybe I was to hasty in that assumption.

  113. And the conversation again focuses on the troll. See how easy that is!

  114. Ah yes, when all else fails, refer to the accurate portrayal of troll behavior as bullying…

  115. Deja poo – that feeling you’ve heard this crap before.

  116. Back on the “troll” thing again, huh? Good Lord; you can’t even have a good discussion without the little-girl cliques tittering in the corner, pointing at whomever they have picked out as the patsy for today’s bullying. Welcome back to fifth grade.

    anon – as I have said, if you want some adult conversation, join me at Rutherford’s.

  117. Shit. I was looking up the expansion of cos (nx) and ran across NOP’s little puzzle. Lifted straight off the Internet. Shame on you. You didn’t strike me as a math aficionado, somehow; now I have learned something else, too, haven’t I?

    Those kinds of shenanigans take all the fun out of a good puzzle.

    However, interestingly, it appears to me that the Internet solution has an error in it; have to check on that after work today (yes, I work weekends too, so I can pay for all “Julia’s” government largesse).

    So tell me, NOP, what is YOUR solution to your problem? It will be interesting to see if you make the same mistake (which means you simply plagarized the whole thing) or if you have a real solution.

    The algebra ball is in your corner.


  118. “You cannot negotiate with people who say what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is negotiable.” JFK

  119. Live Funny or Die, what a hoot!

  120. Tina Fey says it well:

  121. The difference between the 2 hopefuls in one graphic:

  122. Love me some Ellen:

  123. Senator Barbara Boxer WOW tweets:


  124. In the words of Bruce Banner: I don’t think we should be focusing on Loki. That guy’s brain is a bag full of cats. You can smell crazy on him.

  125. Sent before ready:

    I don’t even know how to empathize with the mindset and driving force behind such needy behavior.

  126. I notice you have been doing a very good job of it JJ. I do understand what compelled before.

    It is really sort of sad to see someone so overtaxed at self-validation. I don’t even know how to empathize!

  127. Farsight So very true. Even Karl Rove and his group have specific rules for going onto blogs to disrupt. I am thinking ignore them.

    Helen: A new post please!!!!


  128. “As to what to do about trolls, Rule 14 sets out the guidelines quite clearly. If the troll is acting with malice, then by arguing you give them exactly what they want: If the troll is acting with sincerity, then arguing will only exasperate yourself. You can present all the data you wish, point to all the examples you want to, and it won’t convince them of anything. They’ll lawyer your words to say what they want them to say.

    They already know they are right. It doesn’t matter how.

    So when in doubt, remember this simple rule.

    In the woods: Don’t feed the bears.

    Online: Don’t feed the trolls.”

    The Link:


  129. “I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.

    Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.

    For trolls, any response is ‘recognition’; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.

    Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it’s a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?

    Remember that trolls are cowards; they’ll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that’s what they do!).”

    Read the whole article here:


  130. What Powers A Troll?


    Sound familiar?

  131. Another state with a firm grasp on reality…


  132. Montana takes on CITIZENS UNITED!! They make a very good case too.


  133. Happy Cinco De Mayo. Oh Boy, The Right Wingers probably will ask for my card because i said that. Sheriff Joe, please forgive me. Don’t Lock me up please.


  134. Bottom line is you ladies have no credibility..zero. Everyone knows you cannot hold an honest argument. You are here to push a socialist Liberal agenda. You have predetermined conclusions to everything you talk about and lack the integrity to see if your ideas hold up to scrutiny.

    Others are content to let it slide and keep to themselves what they really think about you. I however like to point out deceit and lies very openly and will continue to do so as long as you refuse to have an honest back and forth discussion on the topics you chose to chime in on. Here is a simple rule to follow. If you dont want to talk about it..dont comment. IF you chose to comment on it.. be prepared to talk about the things YOU CHOOSE to talk about. We call that civility where I come from.

  135. Not cranky at all Cynthia…just calling a spade a spade. Just like I knew Delurk would chime in right after you because thats how the kitchen hens nest works. IF anyone cares and I am sure they dont…they will see an organized effort on the part of your group and they will denote a pattern. When you are getting handed your ass…and you go off subject…and you chime in again off subject…Delurk or lori chimes in right after you lending their support to your meaningless commentary. Like I said you are all very predictable.

  136. Happy Cinco De Mayo Kentucky Derby Supermoon Day

    (Must be this Supermoon that is making every one such cranky pants.)


  137. Cynthia you can characterize it any way you like. The facts are you come in yammering like you you know what you are talking about…I bust you in your lies,,,then you chose not to talk about it anymore. This has occurred more than a dozen times. I call it handing you your ass because beyond your initial statement that I am sure you borrowed from someone else, you can never carry a conversation on any further. Sorry dear but you are a second rate hack and everyone knows it. Step up or move along,,I could really care less. Just proves me right in my belief Liberals can never back up their ideology in on honest intellectual conversation because they know they will loose.

  138. Getting hard to load this stupid thread. Time for a new post!

    Cynthia, you are soooo funny and perfectly nailed it. Thanks for the laugh.

  139. “Hand me my ass”

    Anonymous, Sweetheart you have a great sense of humor and a fantastic imagination!

    Bless your little heart. It is a shame you choose to waste this talent with your obsessive/compulsiveness toward touting the alleged superiority of the Republican species, attempting to degrade Liberals, finding fault with President Obama and making an arrogant, pathetic fool of yourself.

    I do not answer to you or debate with you. I am here to rattle your cage once in awhile and watch you pinball around it. It is such fun and so predictable and I know it may be wrong but Obama makes me do it.


  140. Actually, anon, I think it is VERY telling that NOP thinks a calculator is necessary to solve this little problem.

  141. Great WSJ article on “Julia” – Obama’s composite fictitious girlfriend, who spends her life living on other people’s work – except, that is, during her thirties and forties, when she should be in her productive years, paying taxes for all those programs that she has lived on – and will live on – at the expense of others. The narrative is strangely silent for those years. She just “decides to have a baby” – no mention of a husband – and of course the welfare state pays for her irresponsibility.

    I think Mssr. Obama has made a serious, serious mistake with this little construct. It perfectly frames his socialist vision for America.


  142. Puppet, what is the purpose of this exercise that you would want to see a picture of my calculator and for me to detail the work?

  143. How can I check your math, if you don’t show your work, including calculator. It hasn’t been that long, that you forgot you must show your work now has it?

  144. Isn’t anon? But the only thing is I am pretty sure Pffer is a self identified Libertarian. Please don’t mix him up with us liburls. We like to keep our pool clean ;-)

  145. It is a shame all these Libs would rather insult an internet stranger than discuss honestly the problems we face.

  146. Pwnd!

  147. Sorry to hear that Pffer, brushing your teeth in the morning must be hell for you!

  148. “you must be the most charming man that walks the face of the earth!”

    No, I just don’t suffer fools gladly. Call it a fault.

  149. its been quite some time but y= 3/2 – (1/2)cos(2x) Feel free to check my math Puppet.

  150. Why I do declare Pffer, you must be the most charming man that walks the face of the earth!

    Your charm is only surpassed by your fantastic sense of humor!

    Wowwww.. such a catch.. <3

  151. It’s not an arithmetic problem; it’s an algebra problem, and upon inspection will probably require a little calculus to calculate the tangent slope. God, America must be the only place on the planet where people brag about their ignorance.

    Doesn’t look too tough; I’ll give it a shot after I get home from work later.

    Film at 11

  152. I don’t know nuttin bout no ARITHMETIC prblms but I sure have heard bad things bout that tangent guy.

    Pi you b right smart to stay away from him!


    Enjoy your day all.. xo

  153. Cynthia -

    Here’s a line out of your article on the coal-fired plants:

    “Riedinger said low natural gas prices and upcoming EPA regulations on coal power could phase out the nation’s coal plants.” I worked in the coal industry for a while and the regulations on mining and burning coal simply have raised the cost beyond reach. Gas is cheap right now because of a tremendous increase in supply, driven by an expectation of huge regulations on coal, which of course has turned out to be right.

    Not that I really care; coal has caused nothing but misery for my home state, WV; I would like to see it all disappear, except for that required to make steel.

    I personally think that modern-generation nuclear plants hold the key to our future. As an engineer I can tell you that no technology is 100% proof against every natural disaster and that every means of generating electrical power has its drawbacks. The “green” technologies (at least now and in the forseeable future) have too low an energy density to be cost-effective. Nuclear is not my area of expertise but from my reading I gather that the latest-gen GE and Siemens plants would have withstood the Japanese earthquake with no loss of radiation with a wide margin of safety. Thorium-based nuclear power has a great potential also, I’m told; I do not know why the govt is not promoting them; I guess because they do not produce weapons-grade fissile material as a by-product. (but I TRUST my govt)

  154. NOP-
    keep Pi out of anything to do with that “tangent”

  155. And now for something different, Annoy wants to solve a little math problem for us, and here it is have at it Annoy. Find a function of the form f(x)=a+bcos(cx) that is tangent to the line y=1 at the point (0,1), and tangent to the line y=x+3/2-pi/4 at the point (pi/4, 3/2).

  156. Some things never change ad nauseum!!!

  157. Cynthia…you are the one who made it personal when I handed you your ass. You made a bad argument. You made a purposefully deceitful argument. I busted you, and you denigrated yourself. You had all kinds of things to say until I proved you wrong, now look at you.

  158. Just the opposite. It is nice when your subjects lend themselves over so easily to prove my every word thereby giving me ever increasing credibility. I appreciate you all hold so true to yourselves. It makes you very predictable.

  159. Donna, poor old Orly’s been smacked down in court again. She’s a train wreck and a half, no? And Ted the Turd Nugent… oh my word! Spectacular splintering, that guy!

  160. Write 100 times in long hand the following:

    I must remember to only color between the lines and only use the black or white crayon.

    I must remember this blog belongs to Anonymous and I MUST obey his rules.

    I must remember if I do not obey, Anonymous’ tightie whities will get in a bunch and make him very, very cranky.

    I must remember not to make him cranky.

    heh, heh, heh,

  161. Someone certainly is befuddled, and it isn’t us fellow M&Hers.

  162. Let us test the theory posed at By: Anonymous on May 4, 2012
    at 4:11 PM

    Theory: “Have you noticed each time facts are presented that blows their ideology out of the water, the subject turns to the poster, the person presenting the information, the source, or is dropped entirely. But never do they actually try to take on the information directly”

    Proof 1 of Theory: By: Cynthia on May 4, 2012
    at 4:47 PM

    Proof 2 of Theory: By: delurkergurl on May 4, 2012
    at 5:53 PM

    Conclusion: It seems the Theory has been proven conclusively yet again. Thanks for your participation.

    This hens nest, like almost all other Liberals, are ideas people. They like tossing around all these nifty ideas of fairness, and green energy, and the new American Dream of government programs. But the moment you ask them to look past the surface of their ideas, the conversation on topic ends, and they get personal .Its the act of intellectually inept and desperate individuals. Funny thing is, if they are so sure their way is the right way, why do 100% of them refuse to have any form of discussion? In my experience this has always been the actions of the most dishonest people I have had the displeasure of meeting.

  163. Oh I don’t know, Cynthia… Tex is far too clever to post as Anonymous. The cowardly ‘Anonymous’ handle isn’t as brave and intelligent as making up some-other-fake-nick. Perhaps it’s someone who recently rediscovered Tex and parrots his way instead of thinking for himself – like a Becker, yanno?

    Looks like Mitt (Or should I call him Willard? Is that the way these days?) really stepped in it by shooting off his mouth about things he knows nothing of with respect to the Guangcheng situation. Good thing he put so many disclaimers in his strident disdain for the President that he can etch-a-sketch on this too.

  164. lori – Yes it’s President Obama’s new Foreign Policy. That will teach Japan to build a better car. Whose says he not tough! Wait til you see what he has in store for Russia if they start messing with us.


  165. “Class dismissed”

    Me thinks Tex has honored us with his fantastic personality once again. That explains the love fest, eh?

    Ass Dismissed.


  166. Just watched that video PFesser. What I find interesting is how this hens nest wont touch anything with posted facts especially that involves math. Have you noticed each time facts are presented that blows their ideology out of the water, the subject turns to the poster, the person presenting the information, the source, or is dropped entirely. But never do they actually try to take on the information directly. This is why we know we are dealing with dishonest people with nefarious intentions.

    Reality check folks…Reagen style.

  167. Cynthia
    Let me see if I read you correctly. I was talking about solar power, and you spent a second rant talking about nuclear….and you didnt change the subject? What the f*ck kind of crack are you smoking?

    Again little miss…the technology in Japan didnt fail. They had a major natural disaster.

    “The plant was built on the shore”
    Again not the failing of technology, human choice, good or bad.

    “GE plans did not have sufficient technology to avoid destruction or to contain the radiation”

    It was a 9.0 earthquake. Human beings dont have the technology to defend against this. What hubris to think that we are greater than nature. This is not a failing of the technology but a failing of your flawed logic to grasp our limitations. Or more to the point you being used to dealing with people much more stupid than you are and you are getting sloppy.

    9.0 Quake, largest to hit that region in an estimated 1200 years. The quake was so great it was felt more than 2000km away. It moved the island of Honshu 2.4 meters. The tsunami that followed was estimated moving at a speed of 800km an hour, thats the speed of a commercial jet liner. Shortly thereafter they recorded 4 more aftershocks that rated 6.0, 6.1, 6.1 and 7.2 in magnitude.

    Cynthia…class dismissed.

  168. Love love love it!

    The Life of Julia..

    What I love more? The repubs reaction to it!

    WTG Obama (team) !


  169. LOL LOL Cynthia.. tickled me..

  170. “when we tried to find a place to put all those used up batteries?”
    “We are just against relying on a technology that is not yet ready. But please do call us only after you have solved it.”
    “Problem is you and your ilk want to implement it before the solution exists……We are just against relying on a technology that is not yet ready.”

    I was not changing the subject but expanding on it. (I believe there was an Obama earthquake off the coast of Japan that caused the Obama tsunami that destroyed the nuclear power plant.)

    The plant was built on the shore according to GE plans did not have sufficient technology to avoid destruction or to contain the radiation which is now drifting across the US. And the US has no solution to a disaster of this nature or less either.

    Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant was build 35 miles north up the Hudson from the city. An accident there could cause more damage than WTC did. There is a push to build more of these plants yet we have to idea how to prevent a disaster or deal with one.

    The best we have is to place this nuclear waste in barrels and place inside a mountain and hope we are long gone before the barrels start leaking. IMO we have a better chance figuring how to recycle the batteries than recycling nuclear waste.

    Personally I have come to expect very little from you.

    Pfesser – an article on coal fired power plants.



  171. Well Cynthia that is the kind of dishonest argument I have come to expect from you. By that I mean to (A) Change the subject and (B) Misrepresent the facts.

    Japan’s problem was not because the technology failed, it was because they suffered one of the largest earthquakes in their history, I believe some solar panels were knocked out as well in the quake, do you want to call them a failure based on that?

    It is not a question if he understands the effects his policy will have or not have, he considers it collateral damage for his primary goal, that being the war on the wealthy. As I have said hundreds of times, Liberals classify us into sub groups. In this case rich and poor. By vilifying the rich and going after them he gains the admiration…ie votes…of the poor. Look at my post from above. He has been campaigning more than all previous Presidents since Nixon combined. His first responsibility is to himself and ensuring his continued stay in power to affect his agenda to deconstruct our country and turn it into his socialist vision.

  172. “Problem is you and your ilk want to implement it before the solution exists……We are just against relying on a technology that is not yet ready.”

    Oh, like nuclear power plants some are so fond of building in this country. If you have a solution to this problem; Japan is waiting for a call from you. And the US West Coast well… Mid Section and East Coast would like to listen in to the call, as well.


  173. http://www.moneyteachers.org/Mitt+Romney+Economic+Plan.html

  174. anon – Have you seen the YouTube video where Krauthammer pwns Obama on the “Buffett Rule?”

    The purpose of taxation is to raise revenue so the government can carry out certain jobs. It is not for social engineering, or promoting an idealogy, or getting re-elected by pandering to class envy. Look at Obama’s answer during the debate with Hillary – he is shown that every time the capital gains rate goes up, government receipts from it go down, and vice-versa. His response? I want to raise it for “fairness” even though I know it will hurt the economy.

    Unbelievable. Just unbelievable. Where do we get these goobers who have no understanding of how the money is actually made that they want to confiscate for all their pet social projects?

    Oh, I forgot. We get them in Chicago. Their experiences in real-life economics come from “community organizing.” Feh.

  175. Problem is you and your ilk want to implement it before the solution exists. What you fail to realize is that Republicans are not against cleaner forms of energy. We are just against relying on a technology that is not yet ready. But please do call us only after you have solved it.

  176. Ane the solar industry is well aware of the problem, that is why they are working on solutions now, not waiting 20 more years until the end of life of the majority of solar batteries. http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/solar-panel-recycling-460810

  177. Solar Power is not as clean as you might think. Can you imagine the ecological damage if our country went solar (as if it could, technology isn’t there) when we tried to find a place to put all those used up batteries?

  178. Now is the time for clean energy. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Solar-Power-Plant-Tower-Energy,news-14225.html

  179. Heh PFesser I posted that video a few days back on this page.

    As for Obama on coal I remember this statement he gave on it.

  180. Along that line, West Virginia has always been a Democratic stalwart, however their new Democratic senator, Joe Manchin, has withheld support for Obama. I don’t know the particulars, but apparently he feels that the Obama administration has nearly destroyed the coal industry; the EPA recently passed a rule that makes it impossible to open up a new coal-fired powerplant; coal, of course, is WV’s primary product. (How do government agencies pass laws without anybody voting on it, anyway?)

    Man, we need some hopey-changey in the worst way. This time for real.

  181. anon – have you seen the video, “If I Wanted America to Fail?”

    It’s a little skewed but I think it would be fair to say that it makes some very valid points.

  182. A very disturbing piece of legislation. It is good to see some Democrats standing up for whats right. I wonder if you all are still behind Husein Obama on this?


    This for me is the final nail in the coffin. Obama does not have this countries best interest at heart. His only goal is to deconstruct all of the things that made this country great.

  183. The Middle Class and poor are being robbed by the 1%. This is a very interesting video exposing why the wealthiest are giving millions to Super Pacs! THEY GET A PAY OFF OF MANY MORE MILLIONS OR BILLIONS by electing crooks who vote in tax reduction laws which benefit the wealthiest.


    It would also be nice if the Super Pac ads are truthful.

  184. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/post-poll-obama-leads-romney-as-campaigns-converge-on-virginia/2012/05/03/gIQAgH1hzT_story.html

  185. NOP – Thank You for that information. I will keep moving forward in getting President Obama re-elected. With Citizens United – it is going to be an ugly election with lots of money from Super Pacs. I am very hopeful that the names of donors must be known. That should be the way – put money where you want but you must use your name or the name of your company or organization.

    Time to put some light on donors of Super Pacs.

  186. I found this very interesting.

    From the TELEGRAPH:

    “Barack Obama has already held more re-election fundraising events than every elected president since Richard Nixon combined, according to figures to be published in a new book.

    Obama is also the only president in the past 35 years to visit every electoral battleground state in his first year of office.

    The figures, contained a in a new book called The Rise of the President’s Permanent Campaign by Brendan J. Doherty, due to be published by University Press of Kansas in July, give statistical backing to the notion that Obama is more preoccupied with being re-elected than any other commander-in-chief of modern times.”

  187. If you missed “Rock Center with Brian Williams” you can watch a repeat tonight on MNBC, check for your local time. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/barack-obama-rock-center-brian-williams-interview_n_1473390.html

  188. Thanks Pfesser. heard about that place never could find it..ill check it out.

    A perfect example of what I have always said is a defining difference between Liberals and Conservatives. Last night around 1am I noticed a news story on Huff post about a new book about Husein Obama’s Girlfriends..presented itself like it was a scandal about to be uncovered. I said to myself as I passed the story by…why would I care about Obama’s past girlfriends or what they have to say? Nothing they could say would help solve any of our problems today…so I ignored it and moved on. Today listening to Glen and Rush…both said almost the exact same thing. Rush was like…why would I both with this? It has nothing to do with events of today and frankly it bores me.

    It would have been easy for Rush or Glen to take the easy way out and make a big deal about an irrelevant issue..but they took the higher ground. Rush went on to say that even the story about Obama eating dog was useless news and he was not about to let the Liberal media dictate the topic of the day…not when we have so many more important topics to discuss.

  189. Latest election map, remember folks, we have to keep people motivated and get them to the polls on election day, so get involved with the reelection campaign. http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/romney-vs-obama-electoral-map

  190. anon – take a look at Rutherford’s blog. Smart folks, lots of good give and take there; he is getting 30-50 comments a day sometimes. It’s a lot more fun, not the same stale back-and forth stuff all the time.


  191. Hi Whirled and Elsie,
    Hope all is well. Good to see you posting.


  192. Hey there, Whirled Peas! I love it when I wander by here and see your good sweet name.

    Just for fun, I’ll “see” your “Mission Accomplished” and “raise you” this great piece:

    Have a good one, Kemo Sabe!

  193. Again…


    PEACE ~ Δ

  194. W00t

    PEACE ~ Δ

  195. I hear you PFesser. Its the Christains that are making the most noise that you typically have to worry about. Everything we do outside of my organization is on the hush hush. Donations are made anonymously because true compashion is a selfless act. Those that promote themselves and what they do diminish that act and usually have secondary motivations.

  196. Puppet…not that it is any of your business but I have more than I need in life. We have a great home..I have a great family and I love the work I do. Thanks for asking but do tend to your own needs and let me take care of mine.

  197. Look Noah, I obviously went too far, but do reach out locally for help, I am sure it is there for the asking. Don’t worry about me, I am usually on a natural high, I exercise a lot.

  198. anon – I really have NO problem with religion and in point of fact have a lot of respect for people who really do practice what they preach; it’s folks who try to cram it down my throat that give me heartburn.

    Anyway, I have seen/heard the Paul Harvey speech and it is chillingly accurate.

  199. good call lori..that video did blow your argument up quite nicely.

  200. Amen JJ.. LOL LOL

    Republicans have short memories don’t they?

    LOVE my President!

  201. And I am taking into account your stance on religion but it is still a hell of an incredible prediction by Mr. Paul Harvey

  202. This is the one to which I was referring too.

  203. http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/jon-stewart-slams-republicans-their-hypocr

    Republican hypocrites!!! Ha Ha – I remember GW Bush on an aircraft carrier saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED when the war had just begun.
    Talk about politicizing 9/11. How many times did I hear 9/11 evoked? Lots.
    Thank You President Obama for not giving up and taking out Bin Laden. Pres Obama sent men in and if the mission failed – his Presidency would have failed that day. He could have sent in a missile but chose to send in our men AND IT WORKED. Thank You again President Obama.

  204. PFesser did you ever listen to that Paul Harvey 1965 sound clip I linked sometime back?

  205. the “fail” video I mean.

  206. anon – thanks for the video. Again – right on the money. Out to everyone on my mailing list it goes – that should be about a hundred.

    There may be hope for us. Not much, but not quite yet zero. Not yet.

  207. lori what party tries to keep people stupid? What party uses the police to make sure people don’t get information or talk about the issues? I wont be surprised if you chose not to respond.

  208. anon – right on the money. I had the privilege of being in the Vietnam War protests as a college student. The Govt had brainwashed a lot of people into the “love it or leave it” motif. If you were worried about our problems as a nation, you were a bad person – or not loyal.

    We students actually were extremely loyal, and because of that we hated to see our country go down the wrong path – like it is NOW, actually. Time has shown who were the real patriots, and I believe it will this time, too.

    By the way, our response to “Love it or Leave It?” Change it or Lose It. Fine words for those times – and these.

  209. Nice clip to go with your morning cup of coffie

  210. Will he continue with the old stale republican mantra of ” keep em dumb and keep em afraid?

    This si you lori and the rest of your hens nest. You all have avoided every issue of substance by giving every excuse under the sun to not talk about it. Difference being is yours is by willful choice.

  211. Many Americans—in particular those who are white and middle-aged or older—remember growing up in a far more homogeneous place than the present. The sense of mourning for — and the desire to restore — that world is powerful, as is the fear of what is to come in the new, far more diverse America. The question is whether politicians choose to exacerbate that fear through divisive rhetoric, or to assuage it with language that seeks to unify us as Americans and encourages us to transcend our differences. Mitt Romney must openly declare which kind of politician he is. Ian Reifowitz

    I think this statement says it all. We will see what kind of campaign Mittens runs. Will he continue with the old stale republican mantra of ” keep em dumb and keep em afraid?

    Or will he have visions of the best is yet to come?

    Time will tell.

  212. Easier -

    re: nobody afraid of communism. I read Frederic Bastiat’s “The Law” last year (pub about 1850) and you would be surprised to find that most of it is a warning about “collectivism” – the then-current term for what would later become communism. Remember, Marx was born around 1820! He is not a current figure.

    Not too long before he died, Milton Friedman commented that, paraphrasing: We have in this country spent the last century proving over and over that communism does not work; the world has listened and responded, changing their economies and becoming efficient, serious competitors. Now we look around and America is moving toward becoming that which they WERE.

    Afraid? I sure am, because our very, very socialist government is surely and truly running out of other people’s money. That will bring a misery to me, you, and your children the likes of which can only be seen in communist countries. And the unfortunate thing is that, as the economy worsens, there will be inevitable calls for the government to do MORE. We only have to look to Europe to see where that road leads us. Think East Germany.

    Afraid? You bet. I’m horrified.

  213. It is always easier to put your head in the sand than to admit you are wrong. It is a trait shared by most Liberals. By all means do so Easier.

  214. I am thoroughly amused. I have neither been commenting nor reading much. Some words caught my attention here and there and I thought to chime in. I know better than to enter into this endless cycle of a dog chasing its own tail and never catching it. I also understand the definition of insanity.

  215. Well yes Easier. We have never met a..do as I say not as I do politicaian …right? We have documented history contradicting everything you have said…ignore it at your leisure..but that doesn’t changed the facts. Communism still exists in the world..sorry but that also is a documented fact…and no matter how hard you wish it were not so…it is so. You can judge a man by the company he keeps. Obama keeps and has kept a lot of company with known and professed socialists and communists. Fact!

  216. Life must have really handed you a lemon Puppet for you to concern yourself with my employment status. the well being of my wife and the well being of my child. Like Donna you must have a sad and sorry life and I will pray for you that life imrpoves for you soon. Until then Puppet keep your chin up. We are pulling for you here.

  217. When I was a kid, my father had a vast collection of old Reader’s Digests that I tore into as soon as I could read. A lot of the stories covered had a lot to do with the cold war in its heydays. Communism was the boogyman and governments of a whole lot of countries around the world knew you only needed to claim you were anti-communist to be on the dole, the American way. Communism has been discredited, nobody believes in it anymore, not even Castro.

    The people that still bring up communism just need to grow up a little and get their thinking out of the fifties. Nobody is scared of communism anymore people. The president is a millionnaire. A communist? Come on!

  218. “Thinking all conservatives reside in the D party” shoulda been R Party.
    Gonna go have the first beer for 2012 and forget our alphabet soup for awhile.
    Dear helen and Margaret-
    Thank you for having us all in.
    Sure would love to hear from you!

  219. ;-) UAW!
    Heck I can hardly make it through 2 beers a YEAR, can’t imagine what any other “dope” would be like.
    lori- good description and overview @6:32 PM.
    There’s a mistake to be made in viewing the Democratic Party as a monolith, equally so the Republican Party.
    The Dem Centrists are a distinct group and most closely resemble the moderate Republicans like Eisenhower. They are nothing like the Blue Dog Dems.
    Thinking all conservatives reside in the D party and all liberals reside in the D party is a mistake. Not paying attention to what the pragmatic centrists are is another and maybe the biggest current mistake folks make.

  220. Annoy, I can only think you are unemployed, those of us who are here throughout the day are retired, and you tell us you are a young father, so…. We would like to see you gainful employed for your own good, but especially for your long suffering wife and child. Any job is better than nothing, it will give you a sense of pride, I’m a problem solver so I am giving you the same advice I would give anyone who has given up on their self.

  221. A Swiss bank account Mitt, I’m shocked. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57424745-503544/obama-campaign-slams-romney-for-swiss-bank-account/

  222. No dope here UAW.. but if you have some to share????? LOL LOL j/k

    ONE of the reasons we liburls say that UAW, is his welfare – to – work policies. While Clinton touts that program as one of his most liberal acheivments, to most of us, it was a very republican ideal in it’s purest form. His fiscal views leaned wayy right as well.There are a 100 more examples, but I would have to say those would be two of the biggest reasons you will hear liberals call him the best republican President ever.

    I have to say though he did more than any other President on the issue of civil rights. Most of that work coming before he even step foot in the oval office. He also did a great deal for the middle class and working poor.

    So I guess it’s tomato tomato..

    Obama, while having a less cooperative majority AND minority party, has followed in Clinton’s footsteps. But as we discussed last night that is mostly because he is a centrist.. and that’s how they govern.

  223. Puppet. I hope your life improves to the point you will no longer feel the need to insult me to make yourself feel better. Until then please feel free to insult me as much as your tortured soul needs.

    As far as Husein Obama being a Republican I go to his 2007 record where he was chosen as the #1 most liberal senator in 2007 even ahead of Bernie Sanders!

  224. WTF…I took the test and I’m left of center…….how the F$ck can I be left of Obama…..”me thinks” someone is full of shit…..

  225. Damn….Only on this site can someone actually make the claim that Obama and Clinton are actually Republicans…….GOOD DOPE APPARENTLY HELPS…..

  226. I am looking forward to hearing President Obama address the nation tonight 7:30 EST from Afghanistan.
    Annoy, look into a GED, perhaps that would help you get a job.

  227. WTG NOP! Fired up and ready to go!

    farΔ…. Gov. Mark Dayton is a GREAT Democrat. I remember him from wayyyyy back when he worked on the Mondale campaign. Love love love him.. Sure hope we see him on the ticket some day.

    and yesssss I’ll take 49 more just like him! LOL

  228. I am overjoyed my commentary has inspired you to be politically active. That is 2/3 the batter getting people to participate. Now all we have to do is get you to hold yourself accountable for the things you believe in and we will be set for you to cast a competent vote.

  229. Annoy serves a good purpose here, he reminds me how important it is to reelect President Obama and I will work just that much harder. Just got home from seeing Mrs Obama speak to us volunteers. Wow! Is she gorgeous in person and slimmer too.

  230. That video PFesser literally made my head hurt.

  231. On May 1 the United States celebrates Law Day, It is meant to reflect on the role of law in the foundation of the country and to recognize its importance for society. …..once upon a time that is…

  232. My best friend and I want to be a Margaret and Helen someday.

    Having written a story set in the era of the most famous Democrat, I also salute your politics!

  233. “Thanks PFesser, and kudos to you for your composure.”

    You are quite welcome. But clearly you have not seen me blow a gasket. I am quite capable of outrageous utterance – and practice it with great skill – but am usually sorry afterwards. Some real nice folks live here and we agree on some things and some things not. That’s just real life, I guess, so I try to keep it under control as best I can. Not always successful, but I try.

    Having said that, sometimes the Lord’s burden *is* more than a man can bear. In-your-face-Miss-South-Carolina-cheerleader-style ignorance will send me ’round the bend whereas venom, vituperative and personal attacks just roll right off. Odd, really.

  234. Anon, you are thinking small and short term. I don’t need to motivate those that already know. I need to show those who live with their head in the sand or their hands at their ears singing la la la la the truth. While I think most do not have it within themselves to put into writing that they might have errored with Hussein Obama, I know I have them at least thinking. After reading the information posted, they can no longer go to their children with a clear conscious and say they didn’t know.

    Thanks PFesser, and kudos to you for your composure.

  235. Anonymous’s stamina is a generous gift to the Democratic party. All the time and energy he’s spending being AGAINST things here is keeping him from actually working FOR things that will help his party defeat us.

    Obama 2012!

  236. I could really go for a preview button.

    Or maybe a HTML spell checker.


    Your Tax Dollars At War


  237. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g272XxYnGcg&quot;Your Tax Dollars At War

    PEACE ~ Δ ~ I mean it. Really!

  238. anon

    Kudos for your stamina.

  239. Very interesting. I get bitched at for having one source. I provide more than a dozen sources. Not enough info, then too much into. Despite the hag squad I kept all personal comments out, and what do we get in return?

    A ban request from the blogs self proclaimed leader for using a persons middle name.
    “anyone care to join me in a really big yawn?”
    “Do I smell dog gas?”
    “Annoy, why don’t you sit on a tack,”
    “It would be a yawner only if you read it.”

    This then is the sum total of this blogs intellectual prowess. Met every criteria requested and more, and we get further proof to my theory that Libs can only attack the source and not the content. Even Delurk could not stand up for her own words that the message be examined not the person saying it.

    Now I understand the customary defense of because its me, or because of the source I used isn’t credible by your standards, and that this lets you off the hook. It must be nice to be able to point at someone else and use them as an excuse for why you do or do not do something. I would call it sad. But personal responsibility is not a trait the Liberal party encourages or embraces.

    No worries, Ive no intention of slowing down or stopping until long after the election. What you are showing anyone who reads this page is that the people here are only here to pat each other on the back, and cannot/will not, take on any issue of substance. At least not ones that would require them to admit the possibility that they might be wrong.Just remember, it is you ladies that make all the personal attacks. You are the cancer of this blog.

    P.S. Told ya so pi.

  240. Bernie Sanders – United Against the War On Women


  241. No, can’t say that I have.

  242. farsight Δ- ;-)
    Sure wish I could tap on their “room”doors and have a chat
    You ever read Erikson’s
    Gandhi’s Truth: On the Origins of Militant Nonviolence?


  243. We need more governors like this!!!


  244. Alaskpi,

    Well, looks like I am in good company. That was just about exactly where I was the last time I took it. Good company between Ghandi and the Dalai Lama. Kinda warms the heart…

  245. It would be a yawner only if you read it. I don’t even bother anymore. That last one was me.

  246. It would be a yawner only if you read it.

  247. Barack Obama was rated as the #1 most liberal senator in 2007 (even ahead of Bernie Sanders!) – ” Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was the most liberal senator in 2007, according to National Journal’s 27th annual vote ratings.” Source: Brian Friel, Richard E. Cohen and Kirk Victor, National Journal

    Commentary on Barack Obama’s Economic Policies – “Among other things, he is concerned about the “winner-take-all” economy where, he says, “the gains from economic growth skew heavily toward the wealthy.” Actually, the gains from economic growth can skew toward anyone willing to work hard and make personal and family decisions that improve their chances for success. This is boilerplate wealth redistribution, an economic philosophy at the center of the former Soviet Union. Obama and Democrats wish to embrace it now in order to make more people dependent on government, rather than encourage people to rely on themselves and the opportunity America offers to most citizens, even illegal aliens. Guaranteed equal outcome is socialism. America was built on and sustained by a “can do” spirit. Today, too many are taught a “can’t do” spirit. They are told that because of factors over which they have no control — race, class, poverty — it is impossible for them to do anything for themselves and so they must increasingly rely on government. Government doesn’t cure poverty.” Source: Cal Thomas via pressdemocrat

    Now to sum this up better than I ever could myself. I turn to Ronald Reagan and what he thinks of Obama Care.

    “One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project, most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.” – Ronald Reagan.

  248. Do I smell dog gas?

  249. 11. Obama Endorsed Openly Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders – Video ” “Sanders is the first self-described socialist to be elected to the U.S. Senate.” Source: Wikipedia

    12. Many Obama Supporters Idolize Che Guervara – Obama Campaign Worker Seen With Communist Cuba Flag Depicting Marxist Che Guevara on it. Source: David Benzion, Lone Star Times

    “Guevara later served as Minister of Industries, in which post he helped formulate Cuban socialism…Guevara played a key role in bringing to Cuba the Soviet nuclear-armed ballistic missiles that precipitated the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962. During an interview with the British newspaper Daily Worker some weeks later, he stated that, if the missiles had been under Cuban control, they would have fired them against major U.S. cities.” Source: Wikipedia

    13. The Communist Party USA Endorsed Obama – “Our Party actively supported Obama during the primary election.” Source: CPUSA Website

    14. Obama’s Church is Rooted in Liberation Theology which is Rooted in Marxism – ” The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology” Source: TUCC Website “Simply put, Liberation Theology is an attempt to interpret Scripture through the plight of the poor. It is largely a humanistic doctrine. It started in South America in the turbulent 1950′s when Marxism was making great gains among the poor because of its emphasis on the redistribution of wealth, allowing poor peasants to share in the wealth of the colonial elite and thus upgrade their economic status in life.” Source: gotquestions.org

  250. anyone care to join me in a really big yawn?

  251. Obama’s Ties to Socialism, Marxism, and Communism

    1. Obama’s Father Wrote About Socialism – His father wrote a paper called “Problems With Our Socialism” that advocates 100% taxation of the rich, communal ownership of land and the forced confiscation of privately controlled land. Source: Greg Ransom, PrestoPundit

    2. Obama’s Mother Was a “Communist Sympathizer” – ” Friends describe her as a “fellow traveler”, that is, a communist sympathizer, from her youth, according to a March 27, 2007, Chicago Tribune report” Source: Spengler, Asia Times “The values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics – Barack Obama” Source: Tim Jones, Chicago Tribune

    3. Obama’s Parents Met in a Russian Class (Back then it was the Communist USSR) – “His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham (her father always wanted a son), was white and just 18 when they met in a Russian class” Source: Sharon Cohen, St Louis Times

    4. Obama’s Teen Mentor was Frank Marshall Davis (a known CPUSA member) – “…through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his poetry and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just Frank.” Source: Cliff Kincaid, Accuracy in the Media “Kathryn Takara of the University of Hawaii, who wrote a dissertation on the life of Frank Marshall Davis, confirming Davis was a significant influence on Obama when the senator attended Punahou prep school in Hawaii from 1975 to 1979″ Source: Jim Corsi, WorldNetDaily based on Communism in Hawaii and the Obama Connection (Cliff Kincaid and Herbert Romerstein)

    5. Obama’s Brother Roy and Cousin Odinga are Marxists – “Barack Obama’s older brother, Abongo “Roy” Obama. He is a Luo activist. militant Muslim and a Marxist.” Source: Barbara Busby, 180people.com “The person who made me proudest of all,” Obama wrote, “was Roy Source: Bill Sammon, The Examiner “Odinga is a Marxist who reportedly has made a pact with a hard-line Islamic group in Kenya to establish Shariah courts throughout the country” Source: Invenstor’s Business Daily

    6. Obama Attended Socialist Conferences at Cooper Union – “He went to socialist conferences at Cooper Union and African cultural fairs in Brooklyn and started lecturing his relatives until they worried he’d become “one of those freaks you see on the streets around here.” Source: H Kennedy, NY Daily News

    7. Obama Was Hand Picked by Alice Palmer to Succeed Her in the Illinois State Senate – “Nine years before Palmer picked Obama to be her successor, she was the only African-American journalist to travel to the Soviet Union to attend the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, according to an article Palmer wrote in the CPUSA newspaper, People’s Daily World, June 19, 1986.” Source: Jim Corsi, WorldNetDaily based on Communism in Chicago and the Obama Connection (Cliff Kincaid and Herbert Romerstein)

    8. Obama’s Run for the Illinois State Senate was Launched by a Fundraiser Organized at Bill Ayers’ and Bernardine Dorhn’s Chicago Home – Ayers and Dorhn are former terrorists from the Weather Underground who’s SDS organization received financial contributions from the CPUSA. “Obama’s run for the Illinois state Senate was launched by a fundraiser organized at Ayers’ and Dorhn’s Chicago home by Alice Palmer. Palmer had named Obama to succeed her in the state Senate in 1995, when she decided to run for a U.S. congressional seat.” Source: Jim Corsi, WorldNetDaily based on Communism in Chicago and the Obama Connection (Cliff Kincaid and Herbert Romerstein)

    9. Obama Had a Close Relationship with the “Anti-Capitalist” Group ACORN – “Obama has had an intimate and long-term association with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn)…Chicago Acorn appears to have played a major role in Obama’s political advance…Acorn’s radical agenda sometimes shifts toward “undisguised authoritarian socialism.” Source: Stanley Kurtz, National Review

    10. Obama Attended Several Meetings with the Democratic Socialists in Chicago and Was even Endorsed by Them – “Obama’s socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the “champions” of “Chicago’s democratic left” and a long-time socialist activist. Obama’s stint as a “community organizer” in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored.” Source: Cliff Kincaid, Accuracy in the Media “In its broadest sense, democratic socialism could refer to any attempts to bring about socialism through democratic means as opposed to violent insurrection.” Source: Wikipedia

  252. From what I know of your politics Donna, I would agree.

  253. LOL LOL That is funny…. same words!

  254. you guys crack me up. I think my politics would be pretty much in line with Clinton’s.

  255. Oh funny! We were typing the same thoughts lori! Yes, I agree.
    Hillary is somewhat more left leaning, yes. Not much but some.

  256. Donna-
    from my left/left basement window Mr Clinton was the best Republican President we’ve had since Eisenhower :-)
    Seriously, he’s a centrist . Very much so.

  257. Bill Clinton was a moderate Republican! LOL LOL He reminded me a lot of Eisenhower. Didn’t he to you Pi?

    Although, like Obama, he has moved socially left after retirement.

    Hillary is much more left leaning than either of them.

  258. Lori/Alaskapi/Delurker: How would you characterize Bill Clinton?

  259. Well while this is all nice for chit chat, Donna’s meltdown aside, the facts just dont support Obama being a centrist. Who he hangs with past and present, policies, voting record, and ogranizations he has been a part of and supports, just doesnt add up to anything but a far far left individual.

  260. I agree lori-
    The very core of centrist pragmatism is to work with what is on the table and the table has been full of some pretty righty stuff. Also, the centrist notion is that one can accomodate social justice issues while accepting neoliberal economics. I disagree on that one but, oh well.


    But it really is funny to me to hear this President called a socialist or communist or the like… :-)

  261. Well it only makes sense that Obama would have been dragged even further right especially after the HOR flip in 2010.

    Although, socially, he has moved more left since taking office.

    I really think his ” pure core” is center, slightly tilting left however.

    It’s tough to say what Mittens really is…and I don’t say that to be funny, it’s just he really has run under many different flags, given the year, week, day!

    As I said before Santorum USE to be fairly moderate. When i knew him in Pennsylvania, when he was working for the Heinz campaign, he was sorta normal.. He didn’t go all whacka doodle until early 2000′s.

  262. lori- you remember correctly. I’m waaaayyyyy left/left of Ghandi and the Dalai Lama :-)


    In 2008 Mr Obama scored closer to center but based on his appointments , policies, et al he has behaved about where he shows now.
    Romney is more ” right” than he appears when you tote up his behavior in business and government and ignore Santorum’s crap about religion.

  263. LOL LOL yes we can and have Donna!!! You know I always have an empty seat beside me, reserved just for you. <3

  264. Lori and Delurker: You both are more liberal than I am, which I find kind of charming. But we can have some great discussions.

  265. It’s always a fun discussion when you bring that link out isn’t it Pi? Many a LOLZ spent on here comparing eachothers “points”.

    And yes you do know what left is.. as do I. You understand there are left and right libertairans that are two totally different animals.. ;-)

    and yes Obama is a centrist. He campaigned as a centrist and has been true to his word. Much to the dismay of some Progressives!

    If I remember correctly you were somewhere left of the Dalai lama! weren’t u? LOL LOL

  266. Interesting site, AlaskaPi. I was suprised to see Santorum no farther right than Romney.

    Obama hasn’t been nearly as left as the fear mongers screech about.

  267. UAW-
    viewed as per policies and all Mr Obama is truly “right”.
    He makes Richard Nixon look like Che Guevara.


    Please remember this is a considerably more objective view of right/left than we usually use and if you poke around here you will find all the criteria for judgement used and so on so you can understand how they arrive at stuff.
    Please note on that scale I am in the bottom left- as a left libertarian and almost fall off the chart. I think it is funny that a really lefty lefty is ignored as often as I am when I try to talk to folks about the Pres :-)
    I know what left is, really I do :-)

  268. And the board leader steps forth to set down policy. Predictable and called out days in advance.Banned by calling him his real middle name? Really? Wow Donna, you HAVE gotten desperate.

  269. Matthew: Is it really a good idea to allow someone who believes it’s appropriate to repeatedly refer to the President by his middle name (oooohhhh—bad foreign name) to continue to use your grandmother and her friend’s lovely blog to do so?

  270. Everything in it is documented and backed up. Please feel free to dispute the claims at your leisure. However I suspect you will take the easier path and discredit the source without visiting the facts, and continue on with the blindfold gleefully and happily on.

  271. “No one I debate without in the real world of my political bent believes it is evennecessary as we know we have the moral high ground and logic on our side.”

    “This speaks to the mans integrity.”…speaking of integrity.

    Do you have a creditably site other than – http://keywiki.org – to backup your accusations. This site seems to be dedicated to only finding fault of President Obama using few facts but mostly fiction?

    Thank you.


  272. Not to toss around the word Lie to lightly, but Hussein Obama flat out lied about his involvement with ACORN.


    This speaks to the mans integrity. He should have fessed up from the beginning rather than lie to us.

  273. NOP probably the most insightful post you have to date. I am proud of you. You have come a long way.

  274. Hey Alaska….WTF….
    This president is right of center????????
    Did you slip on some ice???????
    If you stretch your arms apart,the center would be your nose. Not your left thumb…….
    Helll…Bush was closer to the center than Obama…..

  275. Annoy, why don’t you sit on a tack, that would be a bigger reaction than you are going to get here.

  276. To continue on the path of getting to know who Hussein Obama is, lets take a look at another aspect of the man who would be king.



  277. Well that is true NOP.. good point. And we have an open Senate seat sooooo you’re right .. lottsa work to do here up an down the ticket!

  278. I found this particular page to be Very!!! interesting. One can judge a man by the company he keeps.


  279. Lori, don’t give up on Texas too fast, even Karl Rove thinks it only leans Romney at the moment, just saying feet on the ground make a big difference to every campaign. I think as Mitt veers left, and he already has, he will alienate many conservatives and they will stay home election day, so if there is a larger than normal turn out of key Democratic constituents Texas just might go blue. Michelle Obama is holding a grassroots event here tomorrow for the OFA/NV volunteers, I’ll be attending.

  280. Here is a warm up pitch to see if lori and others can find a more Liberal/Socialist/Communist President than Hussein Obama.




    I understand this is a lot of information, but that is kind of the point. This man was born and bread to be a Socialist/Communist/Progressive.

  281. statement out of the blue much lori? This a desperate attempt to change topic off a subject you know has factually already been decided?

  282. I know some of you are familiar with this site… but for those not… you will love it..It’s fresh, energetic and current… especially the comments.

    Of course you will have to understand a little bit of politics to be able to keep up and understand the conversation. You also will need the ability to hold two parallel thoughts at the same time ;-P… LOL LOL but it’s a fun place to be,,, much like this site was at one time…. http://www.democraticunderground.com/

  283. I can pull together a list that, if you have the integrity to be truthful, you are welcome to show me a President who has put forth more policies that are communist and or socialist in nature. I do not think you will find one that exceeds the policies of Mr Hussein Obama.

  284. Pi, all we can do is keep trying! LOL LOL Keep pushing the pile left.

    As far as the ignorance towards our President? I say… thatsssss fine by me…. I’ll ride that ignorance all the way to November and beyond. ;-)

  285. lori- I’m busy watching the weirdities of Alaskan politics right now


    while we have some old fashioned moderate Rs in the State Legislature and some moderately progressive Ds too, the state Ds and Rs themselves are pitiful.
    I don’t see much chance to rid ourselves of our blue dog for someone more progressive next go around but we will be seeing state fireworks this fall as all districts except mine have been shifted enough in redistricting ( final plan still in court) to require a vote on every state leggy seat- House and Senate- except mine.
    Insisting this terribly centrist President is far left is going to bite some in the rear this next go round. Even those who don’t pay much attention can see he is right of center.

  286. Meghan McCain and Sandra Fluke met up and have each others backs. Conservatives are going crazy about it. A TRUE Republican can not support any Democrat or their belief(s). Heads are exploding among the crazies.


    Meghan added, “My fav meeting of the night, the very brave and badass Sandra Fluke! #MSNBCafterparty”.

    To which Ms Sandra replied, “.@McCainBlogette thanx 4 support/advice re: public attacks! We girls have 2 have each others’ backs despite polit diffs. #MSNBCafterparty”

    Meghan wrote back, “@SandraFluke There’s like ten women on the planet that know what being in the middle of a political media firestorm feels like. Any time”

  287. Let me get this straight. We have the most radically left President in our history, and you want government to move even more left? Are you advocating a move to a socialist or communist Americaa?

  288. For those of us who wouldn’t mind seeing the Democratic party move to the left there are signs of good news coming out of PA last week.

    As you know 2 blue dogs went down to 2 progressives (PA 12 – 17) . Now let’s see how they do in the general. We will need to work hard to make this happen. 12 is a pretty conservative district and 17 has been newly redistricted and we aren;t at all sure how that is going to work out.

    Since I am in a red state this year I have been looking for a place where i could make a difference. I have decided PA 12-17 fits the bill. Anyone wanna join me?

    Let’s keep an eye on New Mexico 01 this week too. That is where two of the three major candidates are outspoken progressive Eric Griego and conservative, anti-labor Marty Chavez. We need to make sure that Griego wins and Chavez loses. That will keep the anti-Blue Dog momentum going, and be an important step toward building a better Democratic Party.

    It’s a new day. ;-)

  289. Blah blah blah. Prime example of a liberal name calling er telling the truth…

  290. Get it right UAW!!! It is a polite term for dickhead.

  291. and as delurk pointed out..cant we talk about what was said and not the person? I know its all Liberals got but common, Delurk did ask nicely.

  292. did we just witness an internet meltdown at 7:10? Guess I used the dirty trick combo of truths and facts. my bad.

  293. what’s this Noah shit????????if it’s a polite term for C^nt can I start using it…..

  294. Noah, where did you paste that from, Noah? Noah, you didn’t cite your source, Noah. Noah, Noah, admit you pasted it, Noah, Noah, Noah, you didn’t write something original did you, Noah? And you don’t actually know if any of it is true, do you, Noah? Noah, you wouldn’t just drink that crap up without checking it, would you, Noah?

  295. Currently, our nation owes over $15 trillion. That’s more than $115,000 per family. In 2000, this number was $68,000. By 2020, the debt per family is expected to be $194,000, meaning our share of debt will have nearly tripled in just 20 years. Clearly, this path is not sustainable. And furthermore, national debt figure do not include the massive unfunded liabilities of the Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid programs (another $115 trillion in total). These entitlement programs are some of the biggest drivers of our debt.

    Rather than reform our current entitlement structure, ObamaCare actually expands the role of government in health care, to the cost of taxpayers and our foreign lenders. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) originally estimated that ObamaCare would cost about $1 trillion. But that estimate has already been revised upward several times, and even then, the CBO numbers are almost certainly an understatement. Former CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin released his own analysis, finding that the law will cost $1.072 trillion in subsidies during the first ten years and another $2.85 trillion in the decade after that. That’s a total of nearly $4 trillion in spending over the next 20 years.

    Proponents of the law will argue that despite the costs, ObamaCare creates enough new revenues to pay for itself. It’s true that ObamaCare creates $500 billion in new taxes and cuts about $491 billion from Medicare to fund its new subsidies, but many policymakers doubt that such reductions will really take place. Furthermore, these new revenues will not be enough to fund ObamaCare in the long term. More than likely, policymakers have severely underestimated the burden that this will be on government deficits. In 1967, Medicare’s costs were predicted to be $12 billion in the year 1990. In reality, in 1990, Medicare cost $110 billion. ObamaCare will follow suit, and will bend the cost curve in the wrong direction by continuing to use other peoples’ money to pay for health expenses.

    Now let us not forget about the unprecedented Individual Mandate. It’s unprecedented because never before in the name of enforcing a law has Congress claimed the power to forcibly compel private citizens into private contracts with private businesses.

    It is unlimited because even the lawyers for President Obama’s Department of Justice — and even the lawyers who defended ObamaCare last week before the Supreme Court — have struggled and failed to offer a single limiting principle on the power represented by the creation of the individual mandate. The lack of any limiting principle to this power means, in effect, the end of our nation’s tradition of limited and enumerated government powers.

    It is unnecessary because all along Congress has had the power to create a new health care regime — but it knew that the American people wouldn’t stand for an explicit government take-over of health care, so they opted instead to disguise this goal by creating a mandate for “private” insurance. Ironically, the individual mandate is also vastly unpopular, with a stunning 72% of Americans believing that it expressly violates the Constitution.

    And finally, the individual mandate is dangerous because standing behind it to enforce it on an unwilling American populace is the full power of the government. That’s the power not only to impose fines and penalties, but to even imprison citizens for the “crime” of not purchasing health insurance.

  296. Or perhaps we should discuss Obamacare, let see how many people have a problem with this http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2012/04/health-reform-in-action-15-million.html

  297. And then to make things fun, let insert some Presidenial politics http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2012/04/karl-rove-steps-all-over-mitt-romneys.html

  298. Laughing does the body good, http://juanitajean.com/2012/04/29/men-i-love/

  299. Kind of disturbing how many people answered yes to the question Should illegal immigrants be allowed to vote in this country. I guess not everyone believes we are a nation of laws. Common ground what?


  300. Jimmy Kimmel at the Whit House Correspondents Dinner last night. President Obama was amazing too.


  301. http://www.cagle.com/news/obama-eats-dog/page/3/

  302. above was me…..

  303. how’s this…


  304. I as going to ask why who Fluke is matters so much more than what she said?

    How ironic is it that anyone from your group would make this statement. Funny that when the shoe is on the other foot

  305. I as going to ask why who Fluke is matters so much more than what she said? Even if she DID go there specifically to challenge the policy (which I don’t buy), it doesn’t make her wrong! So stupid to waste time on that fluff. Policy, not people, people!

    If I had money to lend my kid, I wouldn’t. I wish I had more to put towards college. I’ve done my best, and they’ll borrow the rest. They will pay it back – that’s what I did. Here’s hoping they get the lower interest rate. The last thing I’d do is hand my kids money to start up a business in a climate that is totally stacked towards the rich! Cinderella stories are great but most of the time they are fantasies! Romney is a total tool. I take some comfort that if somehow he wins, he’s a far better alternative than Santorum – or Gingrich! Shudder.

  306. Thank God for Gary Trudeau! If it wasn’t for comedy we’d have no outlet for prophets and truth these days.

    Thanks for the link, WP. :grin:

  307. and the campaign ads are writing themselves.

  308. They way I see it is Romney wants so bad to be “the one”, that he will do whatever it takes to get there. He is trying to be everything to everyone. He is a very shallow man. Smart, attractive, rich… sure. But where’s the beef? Where are the cajones? Lacking.

    The longer he stays in the spotlight, the more transparent he becomes.

  309. Bill ‘Village Idiot’ O’Reilly reporting…

    From the ‘It’s funny because it’s true’ file.

    PEACE ~ Δ

  310. Agree. And I see that one of Romney’s advisors said today that the auto bailout was Romney’s idea and that the President took it. Which is fascinating because Romney has spent so much time criticizing the bailout. It’s a dreadfully run campaign–at least to this point.

  311. $20K is a drop in the bucket for Romney. The man is so out of touch with where real Americans are at. Most people that “borrow” money from their parents never pay it back. Business start-ups can run a lot more than $20K.

    Do you let them fail and default at that point? Or pursue legal avenues of collection? Usually you bail them out.

    I don’t think it wise to be your student’s banker, though many are just that. Teach them responsibility early. Put them in the workforce at least part time before they are adults and out of the house. Many college students are just perpetuating their childhoods, often parent-enabled. It’s an expensive daycare, exacting a toll far greater on society than just that one student.

    Romney’s “solution” is a diversion tactic. Apprenticeships are a better solution, I think. Teaching personal responsibility early in life is key. It is very difficult to learn once you are “out on your own”.

  312. I am quite happy to move on from Fluke. Any reaction to the Romney suggestion that students should borrow $20k from their parents and start up businesses?

  313. I agree with you, poolman. It is so damnably frustrating – this blog has so many smart people with such divers opinons that it could be a veritable Garden of Eden of great arguments, but we cannot seem to pull ourselves out of the BS.

    To my eye, Sandra Fluke is a dead issue.

  314. Another day at the M&H blog. I wish we would hear a fresh word from Helen and/or Margaret.

    Hint, hint, hint. :grin:

    Just to let us know things are still peachy.

    But, alas. Not today.

    As usual, some are here to argue and disrupt. Others are here to inform and learn. Some come to spread propaganda. Some just to visit. I like the music exploration we get into, though the videos make for a slow load. Too bad.

    I can’t believe we are back to the Fluke debate. Arrghh.

    Even settled history isn’t. Damn revisionists.

  315. Well, NOP: I think we can agree that the concept of nuance is lost on Noah. There is an obvious difference between saying “by gosh–I’m going to go to this lawschool rather than any other one because it has this policy that I want to challenge” and saying “I’m going to this lawschool for reasons X, Y, and Z. I understand that it has a policy with which I disagree. I will work to challenge it.” Accepting the difference takes an understanding of human behavior. Denying the difference is simply accepting soundbites thrown at one as actual fact.

    Of course, the same buffoon who is clamouring like a 2 year old who needs a nap about “Say it with me Donna. I was wrong…ouch did that hurt?” is studiously ignoring that he insisted on a canard: that Ms. Fluke was already a lawyer. Apparently he is untroubled by making false factual statements. Yet he at the same time claims that people who reach different conclusions about actual facts are wrong. That is a pretty limited and dismal mind and character.

    In any event, Noah has made a fool of himself yet again. So what else is new? And he can resort to his constant exhortations about people having sad lives and needing to be on their medications and on and on and on…but at the end of the day, there’s only one person haunting this blog who has admitted he has nothing but empty time on his hands. And it’s clear why that is.

  316. You did all anyone could do Donna, Noah is a idiot and if he takes that remark personally, it would the first time he got the message as it was intended.

  317. jumping up and down..lmao. hey Donna its ok. Like I said Liberals have but one course of action, attack the person personally. Sorry your life is such Donna you feel the need to put forth this tremendous effort and expend all of this mental energy evaluating me. I hope life improves for you soon.

    Say it with me Donna. I was wrong….ouch did that hurt?

  318. Pfesser: I believe that I responded to the issue of Ms. Fluke’s intention in my posts to you and to UAW. The fact that the resident low information troll is now jumping up and down like Rumpelstilskin doesn’t change my response. It simply emphasizes his immaturity and inability to act like an adult. If anyone questions my position on this, it is set forth above and I’m quite comfortable with this: no matter how many times Noah repeats something, it doesn’t make him correct. So Noah–you can continue to make yourself look even more ridiculous than you typically do (which is really quite something) or you can accept that (a) I have provided my position on the “intention” issue, to the extent it is of any relevance at all; (b) I agree with Pfesser that it’s a remarkably stupid thing on which to focus; (c) I have corrected your false factual assertion about Ms. Fluke already being a lawyer. You don’t warrant any further time or attention.

  319. Donna..Im sorry..you had what to say Donna about Flukes intention Donna? Donna..why do you keep avoiding Donna that you were wrong Donna? Donna, tell us Donna why she choose George Town Donna?

  320. By the way, for those of you who have any shred of a doubt by this point that Noah is a complete charlatan, google “Washington Post” and “Sandra Fluke.” You’ll see articles there from April 2012 that make clear–as even the most right wing media that have made a habit of attacking Ms. Fluke acknowledge–that she is a law student.

  321. As previously noted, I don’t intend to engage with a troll–much less one that is not very intelligent and deliberately repeats falsehoods. For the rest of you, to the extent you have any interest whatsoever in the issue, I believe you will find from the most basic review of the facts that Ms. Fluke currently is a third year law student at Georgetown. As for the whole “purpose” issue, I’ve already addressed it with Pfesser. I hope those of you with a brain have a good weekend. He who has none will continue to sit in front of his computer and hope for attention.

  322. Donna lets not gloss over your other lie that was covered by “In one of her first interviews she is quoted as talking about how she reviewed Georgetown’s insurance policy prior to committing to attend, and seeing that it didn’t cover contraceptive services, she decided to attend with the express purpose of battling this policy. Just making sure you didnt miss that Donna, Thanks Donna for your attentiveness Donna, The floor is yours Donna

  323. Donna, ell yes Donna we really should trust you over the Washington Post, Donna. Thanks for bringing that up Donna,

  324. Although I normally would not respond to Noah, I will merely correct his attempt to continue to spread false information. Ms. Fluke is a law student now. She has not graduated yet, she is not a lawyer, and Noah is–yet again–making statements that are provably untrue and criticizing others for making accurate statements. Pfesser: I think Exhibit A in your characterization of the mindless focus on irrelevancies would be Noah.

  325. Republicans prepare contempt citation against Eric Holder over Fast and Furious


  326. Donna, you missed the point and you might want to do some research. She already was a lawyer. She already had her law degree when she attended the college. She said herself in the interview she looked at their policy on contraceptives and chose them for that explicit reason.

  327. My favorite news item of the week or perhaps least favorite, depends on how you look at it, Mitt Romney telling college students, to prevent student debt, they should consider asking their parents for a college loan. Could he be more out of touch?

  328. White collar prison is too good for him anyway. As a woman, wife, and Elizabeth Edwards fan, I would love to see him completely and utterly ruined. A girl can dream, right?

  329. Pfesser: I agree with you. It’s just foolish. She never represented herself as a “co-ed.” She made clear IN the statements she made that provoked the controversy that she was a law stuident. So certain media reported she was a co-ed and then announced that she was exactly what she said–a law student–and then the deliberately misleading stories about her ‘evolving’ status started coming out and were perpetuated by the low information crowd.

    Ditto the issue of why she decided to go to Georgetown. Ordinary logic refutes the idea that this bright and accomplished woman chose to get her law degree at a particular school for that particular purpose, as opposed to deciding to go there for a range of reasons and believing that the policy was one that should be opposed. Agree with her, disagree with her–but you are absolutely correct that setting up strawmen for which she had no responsibility is silly. As my late grandmother used to say, empty barrels make the most noise and it has been amply demonstrated here.

    Lori: I have been watching it with great interest. Young has been completely discredited. If this is the best they have, they have problems–even if convicted, I question whether it would hold up on appeal.

  330. PFesse my 10:36 PM post was a quote from a Washington Post news article, I should have stated that when I posted it. It was in answer for proof Fluke went to Georgetown for the expressed purpose of furthering this cause.

  331. Try this thought experiment: You decide to donate money to Mitt Romney. You want change in the Oval Office, so you engage in your democratic right to send a check.

    Several days later, President Barack Obama, the most powerful man on the planet, singles you out by name. His campaign brands you a Romney donor, shames you for “betting against America,” and accuses you of having a “less-than-reputable” record. The message from the man who controls the Justice Department (which can indict you), the SEC (which can fine you), and the IRS (which can audit you), is clear: You made a mistake donating that money.

    Are you worried?


  332. Have any of yinzs been following the Edwards trial? Whatcha think?

    My take so far .. if this is the best witness the prosecution has…. I think they are in big trouble.

    So far, it just seems to me, this is another example of attempting to criminalize a horrible husband’s behavior.

  333. Donna, anon -

    I think anon is on very shaky ground, going after Sandra Fluke. Whether all your points are true or not, it seems to me that splitting hairs over whether she was 23 or 30 or whether she looked at their insurance policy before attending Georgetown, just makes one look churlish. I think you should just fold your tent on this one; the more you talk about all these fine points, the worse it makes you look. Come the fall election, the Democrats are going to make a lot of hay, pointing to the “persecution of Sandra Fluke” by all those big, mean Republican men. See if I’m not right.

  334. Cynthia -
    “I’m happy they at least put a time limit on their ‘last fling for ole time stake’ although for the life of me I can’t understand why one would want to have sex with a dead woman.”

    Heck, I don’t know. Wouldn’t be that different from my first marriage, now that I think about it…

  335. Is this the future of education in America? We will be better educated the rest of the world, eh?


    “Do you know how difficult it is to get anybody to read about “privatization of education?” It’s hell. A pineapple, on the other hand, is something everybody likes. It’s a symbol of hospitality. Its juice is said to remove warts. And you really cannot beat the talking-fruit angle. “


  336. “For me the interesting part of the story is the ever-evolving “coed”. I put that in quotes because in the beginning she was described as a Georgetown law student. It was then revealed that prior to attending Georgetown she was an active women’s right advocate. In one of her first interviews she is quoted as talking about how she reviewed Georgetown’s insurance policy prior to committing to attend, and seeing that it didn’t cover contraceptive services, she decided to attend with the express purpose of battling this policy. During this time, she was described as a 23-year-old coed. Magically, at the same time Congress is debating the forced coverage of contraception, she appears and is even brought to Capitol Hill to testify. This morning, in an interview with Matt Lauer on the Today show, it was revealed that she is 30 years old, NOT the 23 that had been reported all along.”

  337. I am with Donna, wouldn’t it be enough, if there were no law against…. I can’t believe there is that much difference between their culture and ours that any ‘normal’ person is attracted to corpses.
    UAW, I am pro-hoice as you know, but I mourn a little bit for every abortion, all of them represent failure of one sort or another, they are not a substitute for birth control. But I am not in any position to make those decisions for any other woman, so I will always support her right to choose. And sometimes, most often in fact, the late term abortions are the ones where the mother’s life was at stake. The first one I ever heard about was when I was a rather small child, it was in the case of the grandmother of a friend of mine, I don’t think I fully understood at the time how such things happen.

  338. UAW- I wrote a long response to you which disappeared into the ether (or the spam folder here :-) ) which I don’t have the patience to right now to try to do again, but I would like to know if you read the link I put up above?
    It does not matter who the President is when it comes to these things. I had a lot of symapthy for the Viet Nam era service men who got canned because of how I felt about the war, but the rules stood then as they stand now. You seem to have sympathy for this guy because you don’t like this Pres- but the rules still stand ,,, and they are not new.

  339. cynthia….
    don’t speak to loud and give the Dems in N Carolina any ideas….


  340. UAW: I think people pick a school for lots of different reasons. It may be location or the quality of a particular program or having friends/family there or getting a merit or financial scholarship. My bet is that Ms. Fluke made the decision to go to Georgetown for a combination of reasons. If her only goal was to find a Jesuit school with an insurance program she could challenge, there would have been lots of choices. But I think it’s more likely that her background and political orientation are liberal and she decided that, in her view, there should be coverage. What I wince at is when obviously intelligent and well-meaning people repeat a sound bite that may present only a fraction of the truth (i.e., “She went there IN ORDER to challenge this policy.”). Not sure what that sort of thing accomplishes.

    You and I agree on some things and we disagree on others. No biggie. But I think we are both well served to check out facts before either making up our minds or offering our opinions. Have a good weekend.

  341. cynthia…..
    sounds more like something ACORN would come up with…..

  342. Donna…
    I will agree that Sandra Fluke did not break any Georgetown rules…..Obama did……..
    I cannot find the U-tube of Fluke ” quoted as talking about how she reviewed Georgetown’s insurance policy prior to committing to attend”…..maybe your more computer savvy than me…..google the phrase and end up with numerous pages to look at……..is that proof….I will have to say NO………doesn’t mean she didn’t do it…I just can’t prove it………being a prior political activist before Georgetown and past president of Law Students for Womans Justice IMHO would lead credence to this…….still not proof…….
    If you’ve paid any attention at all to what i’ve posted before you know that I don’t have a problem with most abortions (I have concerns with late term abortions)….my problem is who has to pay for them and who doesn’t……..and if the government is going to mandate that birth control is paid for (not something to control bleeding or migraines or some other health issues) then I want Viagra paid for also……..and you can have the joy of paying for my F%$king……..my own sister brought that up to me and was astounded to find out I wasn’t covered………and any coverage is by negotiation…….not government edict……..

  343. I’m happy they at least put a time limit on their ‘last fling for ole time stake’ although for the life of me I can’t understand why one would want to have sex with a dead woman. Unless of course you are Dave and live in a cave.

    But don’t speak about this too loudly and give those Repubs any ideas. Next thing you know ALEC will be writing up legislation on this subject for their kinky politicians in those red states!


  344. OK–I’m baffled. It’s weird enough that anyone would want to do that, but to pass a law?

  345. I have to concede on your story PF, there is a least one wacko in the Egyptian Parliament, but it isn’t the law yet, so don’t go all crazy on us. http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/25/210198.html I am more concerned with our own nut jobs in office and running for office.

  346. I think you mean the October surprise Anon..

  347. Was just talking with my cousin who works on the border partrol on the Mexican border. Said there is a document where Obama signed off on and Eric Holder signed on those guns. I think I know what the November surprise is going to be.

  348. Well consider the source PF, the “Daily Caller” repeating a story from a UK tabloid, who back in the day, backed Hitler. I might want to get a second and a third varification on that story, before I believe the worst.

  349. NOP opined:

    “Dang PF, you are the one who told us you made porn, how else would be even know about it. So now you say, it is inappropriate to mention it on this blog. I guess I just don’t get your point.”

    I can explain it to you; I cannot comprehend it for you.


    Somewhat along those lines, has anyone seen this?


    Jesus. The Islamic women get screwed even in death.

  350. Dang PF, you are the one who told us you made porn, how else would be even know about it. So now you say, it is inappropriate to mention it on this blog. I guess I just don’t get your point.
    And Delurker, I didn’t take any offense at PF directing a endearing term towards me, I just assumed he was sweet on me. Well there goes that fantasy, well damn.

  351. I thought this was a great tweet! and true!!! LOL LOL

    Donna Brazile‏@donnabrazile

    Democrats must get the economy to move fast enough in order to outrun the House Republican efforts to drag it down.

  352. delurker opined:

    “fesser, I read a condescending tone into “opined” because I don’t recall ever seeing you use it when agreeing with or praising someone.”

    You are mistaken.

    “Typically you use it as an entry into tearing apart a comment or putting someone down.”

    You are mistaken again. It is a short form of “expressed the opinion…” I use it on all blogs I visit for all occasions, pro and con. It is an appropriate use of the term. Don’t get a complex about it.

    “Hitting back at people twice as hard and taking pride in the damage seems like a guy thing.”

    It is. It is also effective at stopping inappropriate attacks and helps get the terminally distracted back on track. Better than Adderall.

    “It’d be nice if you’d drop the sweetheart thing.”

    Glad to. Drop the porn references. Believe me, there are other things I’d rather discuss rather than the embarrassing naivetes of middle-aged women. (There’s a great line in “9 to 5″ where Jane Fonda conflates S&M with M&M’s. Reminds me of someone I know, actually…)

    NOP opined:

    “I don’t recall ever taking a position on porn PF, for all you know I might have a vast collection of it, not saying that I do, but you don’t know that I don’t. ”

    Good for you. I hope you have a barrel-full, but it’s IMHO not an appropriate topic for this forum. Lori started with the PFesser – “Fesser” reference, which of course refers to the French word for spanking. It is quite telling – embarrassing, really – that someone in this day and age thinks that’s something to titter about like a twelve year-old schoolgirl. Some like it, I’m sure; some don’t. I couldn’t care less. As I said, it’s not IMHO an appropriate topic for here.

    Wanna get back on topic now, or want more spanking? Your call. I’m feeling festive, I could go either way.

  353. I’ve been watching Romney’s speech in Ohio today, someone forgot to tell the people behind him on stage, they are supposed to react enthusiastically to his speech. Pathetic, he is the worse candidate they have ever fielded, including Dole.

  354. I don’t recall ever taking a position on porn PF, for all you know I might have a vast collection of it, not saying that I do, but you don’t know that I don’t. Liberals are far more likely to continue to protect your right to own it, watch it, make it, sell it, etc than the conservatives. Oh they watch it and own it alright…but….

  355. Another very bad law that never should have hit the books. Another freedom lost.

  356. Obama is already campaigning on the tax payer dollar flying around in Airforce 1.

    Delurk, get on those meds little miss. I never made any of those claims you were mindlessly rambling on about. Take a deep breath and relax. Be calm my child. For you to have gone off like that means I hit the nail on the head with your attack group. Thanks for the confermation.

  357. Cynthia, same same same.. They are all slimy bloats … ;-)

    Delurker I agree that the movements were bright lights that burned out quickly. Time will tell if they are even mentioned in the political history books.

    But speaking of political tactics… everyone who lives in swing states should start to see some carpet bombing real soon. If Obama’s staff is worth their salt, and they are, the time is right.

    The period right after the primary but before the convention is the time for the incumbent to hit their opponent BIG time. They should be running relentless ads in all swing/ blue state markets. It’s time for Obama to define Romney and make Romney spend lottsa dollars, that he doesn’t have, un defining what Obama defined. ;-) Romney’s pot is running lower than he would have liked emerging from the primary while Obama’s pot runnith over!

    here we go!

  358. Pfesser, I read a condescending tone into “opined” because I don’t recall ever seeing you use it when agreeing with or praising someone. Typically you use it as an entry into tearing apart a comment or putting someone down. Hitting back at people twice as hard and taking pride in the damage seems like a guy thing. I feel like you use these tools to plump your own feathers is all. It’s not a big deal. Feathers have their purpose. :P It’d be nice if you’d drop the sweetheart thing.

    Noah, I’m not here to engage with you. It’s not your blog, and you aren’t the only one here. I wasn’t talking to you. I’m not going to listen to you. I’m not going to explain my opinion or defend myself to you. You have no dominion over me. Get it? You’re wasting your time. I don’t have any doubt that you can saturate the blog. I hope you’ll respect the hosts enough not to bother but history doesn’t put the odds in my favor with that wish at all, does it?

    Cynthia – good to see you. Rove is very effective, whether he actually gave those instructions to his flock or not. :)

  359. sorry for not spell checking that..doing 3 things at once.

  360. PFesser
    The blogs thug squad has you in their crosshairs. I am not sure why as I have seen you ben very cordial to even the nastiest responses. They are going to pick out every tiny detail of what you say and micro analzie it to try and wear you down. I know I have been attacked by then dozens of times in the same way. It (A) serves to distract from what you are actually talking about and allows them to avoid having to respond and (B) gives them cause to turn things personal.

    It always goes the same. 1 gets nasty. you respond. then another responds in their defense. you respond. then everyone for a time but the person you were talking to chimes-in in their defense. In this case you and lori were at it, NOP chimes in a few times, as you were getting the better of her delurk comes in, now if it were me being attacked, next would be Donna to instruct everyone what to do from that point forward. They round robin attack to keep you from focusing on one target. They are a well oiled machine when it comes to their thug tactics.

    Watch when they come after me again, the order may change but the tactic has been consistant through the years.

  361. delurk said: n my opinion, both movements were poorly executed and epic failures.

    Explain please. Both left and right news organizations have said, agree or disagree with what they did, as far as accomplishments, the Tea Party is one of the most, if not the most successful organized moment in the history of our country. I could list these accomplishments but I will assume you know what I know.

    No one bu you and your group said Tea Party had no arrests. But what they were arrested for, and the amount of arrests is vastly different from OSW. I will take your challenge when I get more time today and I will match you. For every 1 arrest you find for the Tea Party, I will match you 5 arrests for OWS. Once I have done this, I will continue to summarize hundreds of more arrests and other calls for violence, including calls for rape and murder.

    Comparing the Tea Party to OWS is like comparing a J-walker to a mass murderer. Ya they both broke the law, but…..

  362. “Pfesser, is it really necessary to use sexist derogatory terms with people you disagree with? And why can’t you quote people without using the derogatory “opined”? Do you feel it gives you an edge?”

    I don’t need an edge.

    Opined is short for “expressed an opinion.” If you find that derogatory, the problem is in your head; it is an appropriate use of the word.

    Differing opinions are the spice of life, and why I come here. You will find that I rarely, rarely, rarely jump on someone personally, but that I NEVER tolerate someone jumping on me. You will recognize those that do by their shortened limbs. Live with it.

  363. Pfesser, is it really necessary to use sexist derogatory terms with people you disagree with? And why can’t you quote people without using the derogatory “opined”? Do you feel it gives you an edge?

    Back to the “not a single arrest” TEA party. It didn’t take much effort to find out this wasn’t the truth. You would think the Beck crowd would get very tired of being lied to and manipulated.

    Spokesperson Michael Kobulnicky was arrested for kidnapping and rape. TEA partier Tim Profitt was arrested for stomping on a person’s head. As I learned from someone here, ONE rape is too many, right? Also learned here, anyone who doesn’t come out and decry the behavior of the man who was convicted of raping his own daughter must be FOR raping children, right? It was BS then and it’s BS now.

    Every “movement” attracts nut jobs, and among nut jobs crime is more common. It doesn’t condemn the movement but the people who commit the crimes. It’s obvious to everyone but Beck followers!

    I do agree with this guy that a major difference between OWS and TEA rallies is the treatment they received, as well as the media portrayal.


    I also can see that the right-wing media is much better at search engine optimization!

    In my opinion, both movements were poorly executed and epic failures. I’m not trying to say OWS was superior to the TEA party, but its time to stop the fantasy that the TEA party was the epitome of purity in action. BS then, BS now.

  364. “PF… I really DGAF about discussions with you. We all have our talents and assets. Clearly politics and personality aren’t two of yours. kiss kiss”

    OK – I’ll try to read between the lines there and assume that means you are going to stop bringing up porn as a topic. Good choice. Maybe advanced sex is not your game. I know; let’s have a spellin’ contest…(HT to Val Kilmer)



  365. So do we think Rubio is rolling out his alternative to the Dream act in order to catch the eye of Beth Meyer’s? Or perhaps he is interviewing for a possible cabinet position?

    If so, Boehner sure did throw cold water on that plan. It becomes more and more clear just how much disarray the GOP is in. Now that Romneyis the presumptive leader of the Republican party, wouldn’t it be wise for Boehner to at least entertain the idea of legislation that would help Romney’s campaign? SMH.. all I can say is I am enjoying the show.

    Peas… LOL LOL Love ya ;-)

    If it’s the end of April it’s gotta be draft time.. one of my favorite times of the year.. Go Stillers!

    Have a great weekend all!

    PF… I really DGAF about discussions with you. We all have our talents and assets. Clearly politics and personality aren’t two of yours. kiss kiss

  366. “Pfesser, just when I begin to think you might be approaching normal, you cut loose with a zinger.”

    NOP -

    I didn’t start it, sweetheart. I’m willing to stop anytime you are, but as long as you and lori want to keep bringing up porn, so be it; I’ll match you tit for tat, so to speak. Let me know.

    The ball is in your court.

  367. What’s normal? Why do we take unique beings and try to form them into the mold some other person or persons decide fits THAT particular parameter.

    Who benefits? It’s a herding tactic. Humans are SO out of control, and all. :roll:

    As long as we aren’t hurting anything or anybody in anyway, we should be free to explore this planet and all its wonders with the ability to express ourselves however we prefer. It’s freewill. Liberty. Really lacking in this country from sea to shining sea.

    ♪♫ Step out of line the men come and take you away…

  368. Pfesser, just when I begin to think you might be approaching normal, you cut loose with a zinger. Guess we all know the subject of your next porno. I usually have to leave the house to be encountered by wierdos, but ever since the trolls showed up….

  369. Thanks, Delurker. Your friend the SEAL’s view is consistent with the opinions of the military people with whom I have spoken.

  370. delurk, how purposefully deceitful that statement is about tea party people. This act this person did, was not at a tea party event. But you already knew it was unrelated. There are so few straws to grasp at you got desperate, thus proving how superior the Tea Party movement is over OWS. Just this month I can show you more bad things from OWS than in the entire existence of the Tea Party.

    Donna. Fluke stated that she interview colleges and picked Georgetown because of their policy. Those were her own words in a TV interview. Check youtube.

  371. I talked to a good friend of mine today. He’s a Navy SEAL on a very brief leave from he-can’t-tell-me-where. He confirmed that Gary Stein got off easy after willfully and repeatedly disrespecting the Commander in Chief, violating Pentagon policy during time of war. He said any military man knows this is simply not done, and if Obama were to intervene and let him off it would be a very sad day for our nation.

    Also heard about TEA partier Charles Dyer, convicted of raping his own daughter. I guess the concept that OWS people are criminal in contrast to TEA people isn’t such a contrast after all.

  372. “proposition.” My bad.

  373. UAW: Can you provide your proof that the reason that Ms. Fluke went to Georgetown was to test their policy? And I”m not sure why you believe she was accepted under false pretenses–do you believe or have proof that Ms. Fluke stated that she agreed to that policy?

    As for Mr. Stein, he did not voice his opinion on the change of the President. He specifically stated that he would not follow orders. Further, the military code to which he agreed (and was bound) provided that he would not criticize the President. And, of course, he was ordered to stop what he was posting and disobeyed that order.

    I agree with you as a general propositin that neither oaths nor rules should be broken or, more specifically, that if one chooses to break a rule or oath, one is subject to prescribed consequences. Ms. Fluke broke no rule because Georgetown did not have a rule that provided she could not disagree with its policy. She was absolutely free under University policies to do what she did, i.e., speak publicly about a matter, including expressing her disagreement. Mr. Stein, in contrast, broke a number of rules.

  374. hey NOP…..that last statement would classify you as a troll…..


  375. PF….
    60%cut…..40% tax increase……
    I’ll vote for it………..
    and lets take the 60% out of federal judges salaries…….


    good enough for truck drivers….. good enough for state employees…..

  376. alaska and donna….
    its been proven that Sandra Fluke went to Georgetown just to complain/test their no contraceptive policy…….both of you have just stated that she didn’t do anything wrong by voicing her opinion…..apparently she was accepted under false premises ……the soldier was there before the commander in chief was changed………and has now voiced his opinion on the change…..
    do you truly believe that there is a difference between an “oath” and “knowing the rules”……..I believe that neither one should be broken……

  377. NOP -

    It’s only kinky the first time. LOL

  378. Pervert was the exact right word to describe trolls! Since I am shocked by nothing he says, I won’t be giving him a thrill LMAO.

  379. Why are we giving $1.5 billion of our tax dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood? Why are we supporting Egypt with our tax dollars with their war on women? They just passed a law that makes it legal for husbands to have sex with their wife after she has died. They have lowered the age of marriage to 14 years old. Should not our tax dollars, if they are not going to be spend on us, at the very least reflect values we support?

  380. Was listening to an ABC news report on AM radio today. 59 of the past 60 weekly reports on the unemployment numbers were adjusted upward a week after they were reported. Of course we only hear the inflated number an never about the adjusted (true) number.

    Also. Obama campaigning on the tax payer dollar. With all the financial problems we face is it inappropriate in my opinion for the President to abuse and misuse tax payer dollars flying about the country on our dime doing fund raising.

  381. “PF, you might want to catch up on the latest economic news from the UK, their austerity plan, the same one you conservatives… ”

    Just a minor correction, NOP. I think I might have mentioned this before. I am not a conservative; I am a Libertarian. And, secondly, as I believe I may also have mentioned, I like SOME conservative ideas; in other areas I prefer the more liberal approach. Wanted to set the record straight there.

    As I noted above, my reading suggests the best course out of this mess is balancing the books via about a 60% spending cut and 40% via tax increase. That sounds about right, since it pisses off libs and cons. If nobody is happy, it’s probably the right thing to do. LOL

  382. PF, you might want to catch up on the latest economic news from the UK, their austerity plan, the same one you conservatives advocate for the USA, has resulted in this http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/apr/26/britain-long-depression-100-years?intcmp=239

  383. good morning, UAW. It’s a very different issue. Ms. Fluke did nothing that was contrary to Georgetown’s rules or regulations. There is no policy there that would restrict the rights of students to offer their opinions, including on matters involving university policies. If Ms. Fluke had voluntarily gone to an institution, been aware of a rule prohibiting criticism, and then violated that rule, she could have been disciplined. However, there was no rule of the sort that you suggest and therefore it’s not equivalent.

    You have raised the issue of Ms. Fluke several times. I hope that you have had the opportunity to check into just what she said (and did not say) that provoked the firestorm against her. She was not referring to her personal sex life or contraception for herself.

  384. UAW- If Sandra fluke had to swear an oath like the Marine did, went through training which included the whys and wherefores of what was permissible to shoot her mouth off publically about insurance afforded to her and other students ( for which they paid) , and failed to respond appropriately to discipline ( one was sworn to follow as well) I see nothing wrong with her being expelled as a student…
    it is apples and oranges because the military has a whole different set of law and regulation surrounding it as far as free expression goes. this is NOT the same thing.
    go read the link I put above
    It cites a time and place and cases where you would have had no sympathy what the soldier’s politics were as they were considered lefties
    It describes the singular situation the military occupies as relates free expression

  385. NOP….
    mental healthcare for perverts??????????
    your not biased in anyway are you……….
    if your talking child molester’s, healthcare should be in different calibers…….

  386. Just wondering if the people here that are happy about a person, who knowingly joined an organization/institution and then complained (said something they didn’t like) ,and then was getting kicked out/discharged would feel if Georgetown University did the same thing to Sandra Fluke………..Someone who knowingly asked to be accepted to that institution and knew the rules there……

  387. lori -

    Nobody’s trying to put you down; I just want to know what you said. I’d love to participate in a conversation with you but I can’t figure out the sentence fragments and flights-of-ideas. Try doing what they told you in eighth-grade English class: a paragraph is a statement of ONE idea.

    re: whip and chain haunts. You really are a sexual amateur, aren’t you? Nobody uses chains. Nobody. Too cold and un-sensual. Leather and/or hemp rope are preferred by most bondage aficionados. Buy that book: Fifty Shades of Grey. It’s poorly written, but you might learn something.

    NOP – Yep, it looks pretty bad in the UK; unfortunately your debts always come home to roost. I’ve read a couple of pretty thorough analyses of the European situation; best advice has been about a 60% reduction in govt spending and a 40% tax increase to get out of it with the least damage to the economy. The conservatives are opposed to ANY tax increase, but that is the shortest way out of what I consider Bush’s Folly. I don’t agree with Obama’s methods of recovery, but I do NOT blame him.

  388. Here I thought Donna was a lawyer. How is a source bad when there is video for people to make up their own minds? LMAO!

  389. heh the hyprocricy of that post Donna was taken to a new level. Remember, you personally insulted me. I didn’t come after you. I asked you to stop the personal stuff. I offered you an email address to post insults to me to clean the blog up. You and your cackle of kitchen runners were the ones who chose not to stop, so dont pin this on me.

  390. good morning, all. I believe we have established beyond question (not that there was anything) that Noah is here for one reason: to disrupt the blog. Offered a number of suggestions that would allow him exactly what he has claimed repeatedly he wants (discussion of ideas), he rejects them in favor of the same projection, accusing others of doing what he does. This, of course, extends to his worn out accusations that others have limited or sad lives when he is the person who admitted in a rare moment of honesty that he has nothing but “empty time” on his hands.

    In light of the fact that it is now beyond clear that Noah is a classic troll with absolutely nothing of value, can we regular porch dwellers agree to strictly ignore him? There’s no reason to respond to discredited “sources” such as the Blaze or Drudge, and there’s nothing to be gained from giving him the attention he craves and obviously gets nowhere else. Even he is likely to get tired of being ignored and ultimately bless us by his absence.

  391. All I can say is health insurance for all including mental health care for perverts.

  392. Hey Puppet my offer extends to you as well. Please feel free to use me as your punching bag until such a time you feel the hate leave your withered, poisoned soul. I am here for you Puppet.

    On the note of poisoned souls…just another look into the Liberal mindset and what OSW is all about. Hard to believe.


  393. I just don’t get the payoff. There is most certainly a sadness to it…

  394. I will take note that yet again Liberal Donna decided to take the only path a Liberal can take and engage in personal attacks. I find it very telling that it is so widely accepted and only further backs up my assertions that this is all Liberals have.

    Sorry your life is such Donna that you dedicate so much time imagining what my life is like. It does warm my heart that it appears Karma is doing its thing. I am here for you Donna. Use me is your kicking bag. Maybe one day the abuse I endure will heal all the bad that is so obviously going on in your life.

  395. Funny, I think Donna sounds just like a lawyer, she deals in facts and thank goodness, her clients deserve nothing less. Noah if jobs are so hard to come by or if you are so ill prepared for gainful employment look into volunteer work and gain some experience. It is your life, make something of it! You are losing it man.

  396. I find it interesting this is getting so little attention.


  397. You will receive your daily list of talking points and topics that we want you to cover. Consistent, persistent repetition and inculcation will drive our talking points home and so will neuro-linguistic programming. Stick with it and our talking points will become truth.

    If they debunk your talking point, ignore it, and move on as if you didn’t hear it.


  398. Those of us old enough to remember Viet Nam remember notable cases from that time which addressed similar issues of free expression constraints on military personnel. Some of those cases went all the way to the Supreme Court and added to the large body of settled law and precedent which the Marine Corp relied on in this latest case. http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1980/may-jun/moran.html
    This gent can choose to appeal but it isn’t likekly with his current arguments or established behavior that he would prevail in the end.
    It’s sorta silly to act like this has never come up before – President after President has been mocked/derided by service members, regardless of party, and the outcome has been the same- they get shown the door, at the very least.

  399. Any Liberal website or information source must be marginalized, trivialized and discounted. Discredit Liberal sources of information whenever possible.
    Don’t allow a Liberal to present their dogma unchallenged EVER. Intimidate Taunt the Liberals. If you find yourself in a debate with a Liberal where you are losing a fact-based argument, and then call them a name to derail their diatribe.
    Play upon any identifiable idiosyncrasies, character flaws, physical traits, names, to their disadvantage.
    This is what a good conservative troll should do according to Karl Rove.


  400. A few more suggestions:

    1. “Hi, all. Hope you had a good weekend. I’ve been wondering what you think about X.”

    2. “Interesting question about music. Here’s what I like: [ ]. Never heard of [ ] but will check it out. Meanwhile, what do people think about X?”

    3. “I am bothered by X. It seems to me that Y. Am I missing something?”

    See–it’s very simple. If, as you claim, you actually want people to discuss something, you show some basic respect and interest in them and their opinions. You don’t say something obnoxious and then whine about how “liberals” don’t want to debate. You don’t act like an ass and then claim that “liberals” just make personal attacks. You treat people with something approaching courtesy and you’ll get it back.

    Or, of course, you can continue to show up, post something that attacks other people’s beliefs (frequently from a dubious source), preen over the superiority of your own beliefs, and then treat the understandably negative responses as somehow reflecting on those who make them–rather than your own asshat-edness. Of course, if what you really want is to be a jerk and get attention and feel like you are actually accomplishing something by disrupting the blog, you’ll continue to act as you have.

  401. And because I am feeling magnanimous, here is how you actually start the sort of discussion you claim to want (but clearly do not); “Has anyone seen this? What do you think? Should the military have discharged Stein or not? I think they shouldn’t have because I think that people should have the right to do what he did. Your thoughts?” See how simple that is? And how easy to avoid being the jerk that you universally are?

  402. Noah: It is possible that somewhere on the planet, there is someone whose opinion is of less interest than yours. But I can’t think of one. The view of an unemployed and apparently unemployable troll, who can’t come up with anything more or better to do with his time than to keep coming onto a blog under different names (after his dramatic promise never to return proved too much for him to honor) and spouting nonsense is, as previously mentioned, as momentous as dog gas. The fact is that you claimed that Stein had a “right to free speech” that encompassed his behavior. A first year college student (who obviously has significantly more education than you) would know that this has nothing to do with what actually is the right to free speech. And I do not suffer fools gladly. Call that whatever you want–I call it discernment.

  403. I think the point is Donna is you go out of your way to be a bitcch. You cannot remain civil and that is a character flaw with you. Sorry to have to bottom line you like that..but there you go.

  404. NOP: I trust you’ve seen that people in the military, of all ranks, overwhelmingly support the dishonorable discharge, particularly since Stein had been repeatedly warned before it. And Stein himself has now apologized and admitted he was wrong. This is just another talking point for the low information crowd.

    Noah: it takes a particularly high level of immaturity to claim that people who point out the many ways in which you are wrong and uninformed aren’t “defending themselves.” If you ever post anything of actual merit, I think you’ll see a substantive response. You have yet to do so. I’m sorry if you aren’t able to understand the difference between (a) people viewing you, personally, as an ignoramus and (b) people disagreeing with your ideas. You have yet to graduate from the former.

  405. Sorry for not reading your rant Donna, as you seem to recycle the same responses over and over again I am sure it was laced with personal attacks on me and my character. Old news. But thanks again for proving the Liberal 1 dimensional argument style.

  406. You were due to chime in Donna, thats how this mob of Liberals work. This way no one actually has to defend themselves. Delurk is usually next.

  407. My husband is retired military as are other members of my family, so believe me I know what I am talking about. Don’t be afraid of a little knowledge, it is a good thing.

  408. Actually, Noah, you are demonstrating (once again) your ignorance and your unfortunate propensity to attack people who disagree with your uninformed opinions. When someone enlists, they agree to act in certain ways and not to act in others. One specific action that they agree not to take is to criticize the U.S. government or its appointed or elected officials. Another is not to publicly engage in political activities. If someone does not want to abide by these restrictions, then they are free not to join the military.

    The person in question increasingly ratcheted up his rhetoric in violation of both the policy to which he agreed and direct orders to stop. When he wrote that “As an active duty Marine I say “screw Obama–I will not follow orders from him” he was disciplined. And that was for both saying he would not follow orders and encouraging others to do likewise.

    It is obvious that you have no real understanding of what the First Amendment is and is not. For example, if you were ever able to find a job, your employer could discipline you, including terminating your employment, if you were to publicly criticize it. There are a number of cases in which courts (yes, conservative courts) have upheld the right of an employer to fire an employee who was complaining about the company for which he or she worked on Facebook.

    I realize that, as you admitted to Matthew, you have “nothing but empty time” on your hands. I also realize that you, for reasons that only a qualified mental health professional could explain, insist on hanging around this blog and insulting people and then whining that you only respond when you are “attacked.” However, this is a perfect instance in which you have made a demonstrably stupid, uninformed statement and then gone after NOP when she correctly pointed out your error. I realize that you are unemployable and certainly not fit for any sort of military service. But perhaps you might read a bit before spouting your inanities.

  409. Way to be petty Puppet. But then you always are. I can think of a dozen or so Communist countries that would welcome your belief system with open arms. One way non refundable ticket is on me.

  410. Here is a bit of news for you, guess you never served your country, the military typically does not have free speech, and criticizing his Commander and Chief, you must be kidding me. Talk about acting like a fool, he deserves a dishonorable discharge, he was taught the ropes in boot camp. Honestly, you really must at least attempt to educate yourself! There are places Online where one can learn something or you could go to the library.

  411. This is how we treat our men and women of the military. I wonder if Obama will step in and defend this man’s right to free speach? I am betting not!


  412. Amen. few have said it as well as George Carlin.

  413. A wise prophet once said:

    The table is tilted…the game is rigged!

    PEACE ~ Δ

  414. “I certainly know they have never worked on or for a national campaign nor know an ounce of politics. That is clearly evident by the way they always resort to their gammar and spell check refrain when the topic of conversation confuzzles them…. LOL LOL Silly bullies…”

    not sure what meds your on lori but up the dose…your little rant here seems like mindless ramblings.

    Again sorry to point out the obvious but as you can see, Liberals have only one tactic, go after the person, not the topic. It really is all they have. Thanks for once again Puppet and lori for helping me prove this out conclusively.

  415. LOL I don’t know about that NOP, but I certainly know they have never worked on or for a national campaign nor know an ounce of politics. That is clearly evident by the way they always resort to their gammar and spell check refrain when the topic of conversation confuzzles them…. LOL LOL Silly bullies…

    I think their talents are a tad bit misplaced? Perhaps would feel more adulation in their old whip and chain haunts? Maybe that is where their misogynistic views would be better appreciated and they really don’t have to participate in conversation… just put downs… I donno… jussss sayin

  416. Don’t suppose either of you boys, in between your trolling and crank phone calls, have had time to keep up with the dire economic repercussions in the UK due to their austerity program?

  417. I dont think it is so much the worst ideas rather that how do you convince a group of people who have drank the cool-aid that the American Dream is government programs, that we need to cut spending? There is no good way to do it as you will always be perceived as an uncaring villain.

  418. anon -

    I’m not much on saying, “A liberal does this or a conservative does that.” It just makes people angry – and, it’s also not true in my experience. I think anybody can have a good idea – or a bad one. I just try to focus on whether what they say makes sense or not. Although most of the time I agree with the conservatives, it seems to me that sometimes they have the WORST ideas. Just my .05.

  419. Since lori seems unable to articulate her own point I will try. I had to read it a few times myself to get it…i think.

    lori is of the opinion that Romney cannot win as he stands now. And that he cannot win without pandering(as a Liberal would do) to women and Hispanics.

    She is also of the mind that the issue of health care is already a dead issue and that everyone’s mind is made up on that. What I think lori is failing to recognize is that as the cost of this bill continues to go up in multiple billion dollar increments above and beyond what Obama claimed it would cost, support for this bill is falling across the board. And as support falls, blame is getting assigned. That sways votes.

  420. Nonsense. If you are going to post for others to see, you have to be able to express yourself on at least a second-grade level. It’s not a question of meeting some elevated standard, it’s a question of being understood at all.

  421. Come, come PFesser, you don’t actually think Lori is going to bother detailing anything to your standard. Her time is more valuable than that.

  422. In case anyone missed it http://gawker.com/5904926/watch-president-obama-and-jimmy-fallon-slow-jam-the-news

  423. “PF, I’m sorry, I need to be done with you for today. I’m sure there is someone willing to explain the very basic of campaign strategies to you, Obviously it’s not me.”

    No, sweetheart – I’m just trying to figure out WHAT you said, not what it means. Reminds me of Myron Cohen and Sid Caesar – real comic genius. Let me see if I can find an old video of them …

    No, nothing much, but here is a modern day version:

    See what I mean? Now try again. Now what were you trying to say?

  424. And “Also if he fashioned it off Romneycare, did he ever give him credit for it? I never saw it..” Only every chance he gets! Haven’t you heard, Romney is the godfather of The Affordable Care Act? You really miss a lot when you only look for things that support your preconceived positions.
    I can hardly wait for the debates!

  425. And perhaps someday you will be able to understand the difference between an economic discussion and a political one.

    I didn’t agree or disagree with you on your assertions on the debit anon. I just said HCR will not move the poll numbers in a general election. Nor will gloom & fear about the debit, in a general election. UNLESS it is accompanied with some new ideas. Ideas that will reach Hispanics and women. because that is where Romney is sorely lacking in poll numbers.

    he needs to offer more than he has so far and it can’t be HCR repeal.

  426. lori, I hope at some point you take a course in economics or at the very least get some basic understanding. I hope, the rest of the nation is mroe educated and understands that it is not a matter if health care reform is good, needed, or if this particular legislation is good or needed, but rather the consequences of what will happen if we keep it.

  427. PF, I’m sorry, I need to be done with you for today. I’m sure there is someone willing to explain the very basic of campaign strategies to you, Obviously it’s not me.

  428. ?????????? What?

  429. Again PF, when talking about campaigns and what wiill win THIS elections.

    When you are talking about what will sway the women’s vote in Romney’s favor. A componet he is losing by 29 points! And how he will make up the 40 percent latino deficiet.

    It will NOT be repealing healthcare reform. Which is what anon suggests. Sorry it just won’t .

    People have already made up there minds about that issue.

    In fact those two demographics LOVE healthcare reform.

    The fear factor you suggest will win white old Christian men. Romeny already has that. He needs something else.

  430. No, anon’s right about the debt. When a household runs up debt beyond a certain point it becomes more and more of a burden, then at some point it becomes impossible to pay because of ever-faster accumulating interest.

    Our govt is just kicking the can further down the road, and they can do that because they own the money-printing presses. But you cannot thwart basic laws of economics and we will have to default in some way if we do not contain our spending – whether it be a real default or a disguised default via hyperinflation. Think Weimar Germany.

    We are in a little golden period right now. I am not sure how much leeway Obama had in dealing with this financial crisis that he in large part inherited, but we are definitely heading down the path to perdition. It’s a question of when and how bad, not if, IMHO.

  431. yesterday’s news anon, move on, nothing to see there.

    What will move the needle for Mittens is being FOR something. New ideas that will take this country forward to deal with the challenges that face our country in this new day.

    These stale temeper tantrums over argued law, as in women’s rights and healthcare reform, only serve to highlight the bankrupted vault of GOP ideas.

    Granted it does galvanize the wingnuts on your side, but they are already registering in the pools. Those issues do nothing to move the needle in your direction with the componets of the electorate you desperately need.

    You really need to take your arguments to a rightwing nut site. They would appreciate and applaud your efforts.

    But by all means sit down and enjoy some pie here while the rest of us chat about relevant issues that will be affecting the 2012 general.

  432. I guess I am of the sort that feels a lie is bad all the time, not just until it becomes the past. That level of deceit and or incompetence will always be relevant. A single part of the bill was shown to be $15-$17 over what we were told it was going to be. That’s one part. Imagine what else we have in store for us. You might be able to gloss over it, many will not.

    Again, I am almost eager to let Obama win. He will then be the sitting President when the full brunt of Obama care comes due, while at the same time our failing infrastructures start to give way. We will fondly look at these days when we were only $15 trillion in debt. I bet that number will be 40%-50% higher or more with another Obama run. $5 dollar gas will be a thing of the past as we enter into $6-$8 dollar a gallon gas and we will be importing more oil than we have ever in our history. 8%-10% unemployment will be considered the norm, and 60%-70% of the nation will be getting some form of government assistance. That is if we dont fall the way of Greece by then.

  433. The electorate has already made their peace, or not, with the healthcare reform law. Those feelings are reflected in the polling already.

    That was an issue for the Republican primary, it won’t be much of a factor in 2012 general.

  434. The logic being he was tens of billions of dollars off on the cost. We were flat out lied to as to the cost. Either that or he was completely incompetent.

    Also if he fashioned it off Romneycare, did he ever give him credit for it? I never saw it..

  435. so anon, it’s your thinking the electroate will turn away from Obama because of a healthcare reform law that he fashioned off of Romneycare?

    I don’t follow that logic.

  436. Obama is addressing college costs:


    A very smart move on his part, and IMHO a good thing. Good for him.

  437. I think once the hammer drops on Obama care, and we start to see the real numbers and discover we were lied to all along about the true cost, Obama’s numbers will plummet.

  438. Some good info on the ever changing unaffiliated or independent electorate.

    Steve Singister is one of the few that has always understood who those voters are.

    Anyway, great news for the good team! I’ll take these odds.


  439. I heard some say yesterday that the home state of a VP doesn’t matter much anymore. They were pointing to Biden and Cheney as an example. But what they were forgetting was Biden had huge swag in eastern PA. So although not from an important state he was associated with one. Cheney… wellll..lol Im not sure he counts since he was never a VICE President. LOL LOL

    I’m sticking with the old school thought. Veeps need to deliver a state and do no harm.

    NOP, I think Romney will look at Rand Paul, as he promised his Papa he would. But I think his party would have his head if he took a sitting Senator.

    So that leaves Govs…. and non- sitting politicans. Which brings us back to Jebby.

    Maybe he will give Christy another look? Not a likely pick though. I don’t think Mittens wants to associate himself with another “liberal” east coast gov.

    I am popping my corn.. This is where it starts to get good. ;-)

  440. NOP -

    McDonnell is of course governor of MY state, Virginia.

    You don’t want him. His MA/JD degree is from Regent “University” in Virginia Beach – otherwise known as the Christian Broadcast Network College, or the University of Pat Robertson. He signed the Ultrasound Probe Rape bill into law and is a major player in the ReBiblican’s Crusade to Put Women Back Where They Belong.

    If he’s the Veep candidate, I’m voting for Hussein.

  441. Newt has way to much baggage. Will never be considered.

  442. I am at a total loss, I can’t think of anyone who could help him. Newt it is then, by default. lol

  443. NOP isn’t McDonnell wayyyy wayy right on immigration? I just can’t help but think Romney needs someone to carry a swing state (which he probs would), and someone who will lessen the 40 point percentage gap he has with hispanics. So I think it is going to have to be someone who is left of Romeny on immigration.

  444. That’s very true about Jeb NOP.. I actually think if Rubio isn’t number two that will be the reason why. I think he has his sights set down the road and he doesn’t think Romeny will get him there. But.. he is a politician and they have egos and at the end of the day it’s hard for them to turn down the number 2 gig.

  445. Jeb is the smart Bush, I don’t think he wants to run with Romney, but I think he will run for the top position some other time. He could have ran this time and he would have won the primary, so I think he is bidding his time. McDonald (spelling?) of Virginia would really like to run with Romney, he might be the only one who does want to run with him. He is really promoting himself.

  446. Wow Cynthia, I donno about Jeb. The first rule of thumb of a Veep is do no harm and I think his name has potential to do harm. For that reason I don’t think he will be tapped.

    I do agree though, he would carry Florida and I see absolutely no path for Mittens if he doesn’t carry Florida. It’s a must win.

    Donna speaking of women and the Sarah Palin mistake… that Susana Martinez from New Mexico would have been a real possibility if it weren’t for the Sarah fiasco the last time around. I think Mittens is too cautious to go with a neophyte this time. He seems kinda like a steady Eddie kind of guy.

    No way it will be Rice.. she has never ran for an office and wayyyyy to close to Bush and Bush policies,

    Everyone knows there is a huge difference in just being in an appointed position and an elected official. To run your first race as a Veep is usually disastrous, especially in this age of slash and burn campaigns. Talk about not doing any harm.. geeze she has the potential to blow it up. I just can’t see Rice.

  447. 1st concert?
    John Sebastion
    It was fun but
    I like him better now :-)

    favorite concerts ever
    1- Leo Kottke
    2-Sweet Honey in the Rock
    3- Ray Charles
    4- Carolina Chocolate Drops

    always, always wanted to see Joe Cocker , Earl Scruggs, Neil Young and /or Townes Van Zandt
    don’t get everything we want… sigh.

  448. way to take the high road puppet, no one expects any less from you.

  449. Donna -

    LOL. Dog flatulence to describe irrelevance. My mom was a salty old gal; she used say that something didn’t matter any more than a big dog farting. I hadn’t thought of that in a long time.

    re: Rubio. I know absolutely nada about him. Any info, good or bad?

    Cynthia – I know some folks in Elkins, WV – right in the highest part of the Alleghenies. They were slated to get 16″ of snow – really bad since all the trees are leafed out. On Bill Monroe: Flatt and Scruggs worked for him but decided to leave because of the grueling schedule and poor pay. I never cared much for his music, especially after he got old. Too lonesome and sad for me. F/Scruggs really turned me on, though. I always thought Lester Flatt had the perfect bluegrass voice, not so high and whiny like Monroe.

  450. Boring little man! Isn’t anyone hiring in your neck of the woods?

  451. My money is on Jeb Bush for VP.

    First concert was the Grand Ole Oprey (sp?) with Red Foley in Miami. The only other was a Blue Grass concert with Bill Monroe who was so drunk we were making bets on when he was going to fall off the stage. I lost! I would have liked to have gone to others but never had the chance.

    Any one else get this snow?


  452. My bet for VP is Condoleezza Rice.

  453. Per post 2 Donna, I see you have given this a great deal of thought. I just cant bring myself to read your predictably insulting posts. Get your mad on, be a bitch if that is what gets your through the day. You dont like me, I have no particular use for you. Lets agree to dislike each other and can the personal issues on the blog. Agreed? If you really feel the need to insult me personally, puppet, lori, delurk and anyone else, I would be happy to make a google email address and I can read each in turn. That way we can rid ourselves of the clutter here.

  454. Donna, you always attempt to change the tone, right after you get down bashing someone. Fact!

  455. I say you are absolutely right. It’s their attempt to pander to the Hispanic vote. Which will fare as well as picking Sarah Palin to appeal to women did.

  456. Anyone want to talk about real politics?

    The big buzz today seems to be Rubio or not. It was even trending on twitter this afternoon.

    I have already shared my feelings up there ^ . I think it’s going to be a Romney Rubio ticket. Rubio says he will absolutely not run with Mittens. But they all say then until they don’t. ;-)

    What say you?

  457. oh, and let’s try to preempt the predictable response from Noah, who can’t manage to come up with anything new or original. No, you are not important to me. You are, again, canine flatulence and not even from a dog for which I have fondness. No, I do not engage in personal attacks because I am so stunned by your insights that I have nothing else to say. You have yet to offer any post of any merit or interest and, to the extent I have any reaction at all, it is that you are remarkably dim. No, there is nothing wrong in my life that requires you to address me as “kiddo” or “tiger” or offer one of your phony little “chin up” posts. I have a life that is so much beyond yours that I don’t need to hang around blogs and try to disrupt them for attention. Instead, I can occasionally drop in here because (a) I enjoy the hosts and hope they have a new post and (b) many of the people here (with the exception of yourself) are funny and interesting, regardless of whether or not I agree with their viewpoints. Sorry that you apparently were unable to drum up any interest in your blog, but it’s obvious why.

  458. Actually, as PFesser can confirm, I am the one who regularly tries to change the subject to more pleasant things and, in fact, started this (and the previous) discussions of music. I note that you never participate and ignored this one; instead, you had to come up with something to insult the other people here. As predictable as is your projection of your own behavior onto others.

    Oh, the dog passed gas. I thought you might have posted again.

  459. Always count on Donna and Puppet to take the mood south.

  460. And we were doing so well on the music thread, too…(sigh)

  461. Well of course you don’t care about my topics..they highlight the hypocrisy and immorality of your political beliefs..were I forced to be Liberal I might take the same path to ease my own guilt.

  462. Yes, I am! Thank you for noticing. I’m not arguing, why would I bother? I don’t care about any of the subjects you bring up and I really don’t care about your opinions. I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I’d be shocked if any of them gave a damn as well. Face it you just aren’t that interesting to us.

  463. Thanks Puppet for showing everyone your 1 dimensional argument style. You are a credit to the Liberal cause.

  464. Boo! Have you worked up the strength to leave the house today? Sooooooooooo scary!

  465. Have you heard about the new Pew survey which found that Republicans are better informed, more intellectually consistent, more open-minded, more empathetic and more receptive to criticism than Democrats? Not that this is really breaking news!

  466. The Who……..MSU ……????????69 I think………..after that…no in order…
    Jethro Tull
    J Guiles
    crap…CRS kicking in……

  467. Ik you are NOP. Thanks soo much for pulling the weight for us red staters! LOL LOL That is one of the only things I miss about living in a swing state. ;-( Oh well .. at least I can still work for down ticket candidates, GOTV, and fund raising! Always something to do, even if it isn’t canvassing.

  468. Lori, here in Nevada, a swing state, we are in full campaign mode. Actually had canvasers out on Saturday.

  469. OK one more link for tonight. I guess i must b likin me some KOS tonight! I LOL LOL over this one though. I have every single one of these FB friends! I may or may not be one or two of them myself! I bet you are too!

    I hope ypou enjoy


  470. Hello friends, I rarely play sir links a lot but I think my fellow election junkies will enjoy this one.

    We all know this, but it’s good to be reminded before we go into the the season.


    Donna… can’t remember my first concert but I can certainly remember my favorite. Earth Wind and Fire circa 77-78 Pittsburgh civic arena, they called it the igloo. It had a retracable dome and EW&F came down through the open roof in these pod like things… Coolest thing I think I have ever seen! I was attending a near by university at the time. My college roomate and I walked to the concert from campus,,,, beautiful night ;-)

    Awwwww “Do You Remember The Twentyfirst Night of September”…..

    ….But right up there with that concert was seeing Diana Ross on broadway in the Wiz.. Excellent! That by far is my favorite broadway show..

    I already think I know Delurkers… LOL LOL everone elses?

  471. 3 Dog Night was the first concert I ever went to.

  472. Makes my point for me…



  473. Donna, fun question. My first concert was Jimmy Buffett. He’s a natural entertainer. I also enjoyed seeing Elton John & Billy Joel together in concert once.

  474. I realize trolls hang around us, because they would like catch our optimism and we are all generous enough we would willing share it. It must be so frightening and limiting to be scared shit less of the future.

  475. not to make too fine a point of it, but take nore another liberal bothered to log in to talk just about me and make personal observations. Like I said..these guys have ONLY 1 way they do things. Very predictable.

  476. “You matter to me about as much as the quiet passing of gas by one of the dogs.”


    Donna, I think that if you are honest with yourself, you will realize the self deception in this.

    The passing of gas by one of your dogs is exceedingly more important than the troll who shall not be named. Your dogs intestinal health can be indicated by his gas and could give you notice to be paying extra attention. The dogs health and welfare is important to you. The troll, probably not so much.

    Not sure that it really matters whether he is Noah, but his MO as the not named troll, while reined in, reeks of the same stench.

    There are a couple of reactions expected from the troll, neither of which make a difference. Remember, he comes in here and makes it all about him.

    There are energy givers and energy takers. Would you care to guess which one I believe the troll to be.

  477. Thanks for proving my point. You who put so much thought into who I am and how I live my life. The very fact you have given me so much consideration thought, and imaginings to what my life is tells everyone here the real truth, even if you cannot find the conviction to put it into print.

    Nice thing about this free country that you are trying so hard to dismantle, is that I get to live the life that makes me happen, even if it doesn’t measure up to your standards. You will take note I have not made all the same conjectures you have about me, as I really do not care how you live your life. I only care what your flawed and infectious thinking, and your singular vote, could do to my country.

  478. Sorry, Noah–I have a great job and wonderful family and friends. I have many interests. I occasionally post here but not often, because I have so much else going on. This is unlike you who, as you admitted to Matthew in a rare moment of self-awareness, have nothing but “empty time” on your hands.

    Your attempts at being patronizing fall as flat as your posts. You simply have nothing of value to say. You matter to me about as much as the quiet passing of gas by one of the dogs. And you’ve never said one thing that exceeded the passing of gas in merit or interest or value.

    To the extent you matter at all, it is as a sad example of how the most unsuccessful and unappealing and unaccomplished people can still manage to pretend that they have a voice if they have a keyboard and a monitor. So your resort to terms such as “kiddo” and “tiger” are nothing other than your typical self-inflation: and aren’t you just occasionally embarassed at how trite and lacking in originality you are? Or are you so limited that you don’t have any awareness of your own banality?

    As for those of you who genuinely do matter, there is an amazing new post at Stonekettle. I think you’ll enjoy it.

  479. Ohhh Pffer you are a stich! LOO LOL .. (gotta love ya)))

    Hav e a great wekend all!

  480. Thanks for always being you Donna. Nice to know I am so deep inside your head. I do hope your life gets better to the point I no longer matter so much to you. Keep your chin up kiddo.

  481. Sorry, Pfesser: Your little pal isn’t interested in discussion. It’s either lecturing or self-aggrandizement, regardless of how either is received. With a sprinkling of projection (claiming that he doesn’t go after people personally while doing exactly that).

    And Poolman, you are so right.

  482. I found this on Yahoo. Had to share.

    :lol: I wonder what smoked hydra is like?

  483. Cynthia
    I am very much against this type of discourse. It is exactly the tactic you ahd many others have used since I first starting reading this blog. No one I debate without in the real world of my political bent believes it is evennecessary as we know we have the moral high ground and logic on our side. I am dismaked if he really is advocating this.

  484. Donna “of course, this “oh, let’s not get personal” meme ignores that he who spouts it is the one whose posts virtually all claim that those who aspire to a different philosophy are somehow deficient. Perhaps if he would stop posting insults, he might not get personal insults in return.

    The difference being is I am generalizing, not calling anyone out unless they do so first to me then I just return what I get. But you already knew that didn’t you?

    As to being deficient. It is not so much that as it is I think most here are deceptive and dishonest as to their true intentions for our country. Growing up with parents who were of Vietnam age and grand parents who were of the WWII era and in the war, I had grown up all my life with the notion all US citizens were patriotic and loved their country. Progressives such as we have on this blog woke up me to the reality that this is not the case.

    I think some are ashamed of what we are. I think others want to hijack what we have and turn it into something other than what our founding fathers intended. Still others want to destroy us from within by turning us against each other at all levels. I consider you a destructive force and a real threat to our way of life. Fortunately for you I will never be in a position to deal with you all as I feel is necessary considering your intentions for our country.

  485. Interesting observation today from http://juanitajean.com/

    How Karl Rove is Attempting to Drive You Nuts


    Engage Demand an elaborate, time-consuming comparison / analysis between your position and theirs. Entangle Insist that the Liberal put their posts in their own words. That will consume the most time and effort for the Liberal poster.

    They will be unable to spread numerous points on numerous blogs if you have them occupied. Allowing a Liberal to post a web link is too quick and efficient for them. Tie them up. We are going for delay of game here. Demoralize Dismiss their narrative as rubbish immediately.

    Do not even read it. Once the Liberal goes through the trouble to research, gather, collate, compose and write their narrative your job is to discredit it. Make it obvious you tossed their labor-intensive narrative aside like garbage. This will have the effect of demoralizing the Liberal poster.”……..

    ….“If you find yourself in a debate with a Liberal where you are losing a fact-based argument then call them a name to derail their diatribe. Remember your goal is to prevent a meaningful exchange of views and ideas which may portray Liberalism in a positive light.”…..


  486. McCoury is a seventy-something (!) year old, old-time country and bluegrass man. He’s a bit of a throwback to the “high, lonesome sound” of Bill Monroe, Flatt/Scruggs, et al.

    Bonnaroo is a yearly music festival in Manchester, Tennessee. You can see anybody there: Dylan, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Dave Matthews, the Beach Boys, Big Freda. (I don’t know who that is; I just included her for fun.) My wife and her son went last year; she said the best was John Fogerty (of old Creedence) and Steve Martin (yes, the comedian – but his shtick was banjo) I have seen him play on YouTube; he is really, really good.

    A couple years ago my wife went with her kids and a huge storm came through, collapsing her tent and drenching everybody. Great fun. (Yeah, right) LOL

    My tastes are pretty eclectic; the only thing I can’t tolerate is Crap – er, I mean Rap. I am an amateur WWII historian and I keep forties big band on at my desk all day long, so there isn’t much I don’t like.

  487. ok–let me admit ignorance. Who is Dell McCoury and what is Bonnaroo? thanks!

  488. Love Haggard’s music, largely because I know a little of his back story; he’s a very reaI kind of fellow. I saw him the other night on a Johnny Cash tribute. He was talking about Cash’s Folsom Prison concert and what a profoundly good effect it had on the inmates. Of course, HE had been an inmate, but not Cash. Haggard was in prison with a fellow who had been declared “incorrigible” but was quite famous for his writing? I think. They ended up executing the guy and Haggard said it had a real effect on him, since he had been referred to as incorrigible also and he realized they could execute ANYBODY. He decided to get his act together, and as a former inmate had great respect for Cash.

    I loved Johnny Cash, although he couldn’t sing for beans. I really liked his real-life true story of how a good woman (June Carter) saved his life (drugs). Now THERE was an epic romance!

    I saw Hartford in a high-school theatre in Morgantown, WV, many years ago. It was like watching the Pied Piper of Hamelin. Within a half-hour people were in all the aisles, dancing their arses off. We were all up and swinging, dancing in place, just having an absolute ball. I was so hoarse I couldn’t talk for a week. He had the audience in his palm the whole night. I’ll never forget it.

    A large corporation has taken over my tiny hospital and made it clear that the doctors are to all be employees, underlings and resources – take it or leave it. I tried it for three months; I ain’t under nobody’s oppression, by God, so I Johnny Paycheck-ed their asses…(Take this job and shove it.) I hope to get my life back soon and start seeing some concerts, visiting old friends, drinking liquor, doing things with my sons and wife. I miss those days terribly. We’re going to start with DellFest shortly (Dell McCoury) and Bonnaroo after that. I can’t wait.

  489. Best ever….Merle Haggard. No question about it.

    LOVE John Hartford!! Huge talent.

    And of course I remember Melanie. Never was a Carpenters fan but certainly can’t deny Karen’s talent.

  490. Donna – our posts passed in the aether. I had already posted as soon as I saw your first.

    And thanks for going onto something more pleasant.

  491. Donna -

    “Melanie.” Remember her?

    Second was “The Carpenters.” They had the biggest sound system I have ever seen; after Karen hit the first note and filled a huge arena, I was in love with her for life.

    Best ever? No question about it: John Hartford.

    et tu?

  492. Hey, Pfesser: you and I have had some great exchanges about music. First concert? I’m betting it was something cool.

  493. “LOL LOL I don’t care enough about you to waste my time to dig through a year of arcives PF.”

    Of course not. You just care enough to spread lies and then try to weasel out when someone challenges you for proof. That’s about what I figured: all hat; no cattle.

    And BTW, It’s “archives.” (((LOL LOL LOL)))

  494. of course, this “oh, let’s not get personal” meme ignores that he who spouts it is the one whose posts virtually all claim that those who aspire to a different philosophy are somehow deficient. Perhaps if he would stop posting insults, he might not get personal insults in return. On the other hand, that appears to be what he wants so that he can continue insulting others. The day that this particular poster stops insulting others is the day I’ll assume he actually is interested in discussion.

    Meanwhile, first concert you ever saw? Mine was Jimi Hendrix.

  495. If you dont care enough to back up your own personal rants on someone, then dont care enough to have them in the first place. Its a reasonable request if you are going to make it personal, that you back up what you say.

    As for being calm, I could not be more calm and less excited. This is all very predictable. Most of you have one clear method of discourse. You all dont give me anything to get worked up about.

  496. As my Daddy always said a stuck pig squeals. LOL LOL I don’t care enough about you to waste my time to dig through a year of arcives PF. You would just deny them anyway.

    And anon.. he use to call himself JIm, he would end his posts by signing his name.. I’m not outting anyone for heavens sake. For a while we had a Jim and a James. Geeeeze.

    Calm down now. There is no need to go off the rails here. You are going to be the one needing high blood pressure meds if you let these little things get under your skin.. It’s just the internet PF.. relax. xo

    and on we go..

  497. I absolutely agree on that point PF. If the conversation could remain above the belt, and people did not need go after eachother personally, that would indeed be ideal. Unforunately that is not the case.

  498. anon -

    It is kind of nice to know whom you are corresponding with, but it is not critical, and it’s kind of fun to speculate as to whether someone is a re-tread of an old personality. I don’t think that speculations of you as Noah are correct, though; your writing styles are very different, to my eye.

  499. In keeping with Liberal tradition, there has to be a victim and a villain. I think this is why these people are so obsessed with your identity “Jim”. You do not always think as they do and in order to vilify you they have to be able to accurately identify you. Libs are very one dimensional. If they cannot argue the facts, they attempt to discredit the person. Over and over again on here we see that is all they’ve got.

    For no other reason that it aggravates them do I take little concern if I log in a name or not or which. I get a chuckle every time Donna or her kind think they are actually “outing” me, because I know I’ve gotten into their head.

    Just do as I do. Every time someone makes comments about you of a personal nature, just say to yourself “I’ve won” because it is desperation talking from that point forward.

  500. lori opined:

    “LOL LOL Donna, you probs forgot Pf started as “Jim”.. then morphed ( a couple of times) into the spanker Pffer… No matter… we know enough “recent” history to form an opinion..”

    “ohh and don’t forget about the georgio.. or gregieo (sp>?) stage..
    What am I sayin.. Im sure yiu don’t..”

    Again, you are misinformed.

    1) My handle has always been PFesser; occasionally I sign more personal posts at the bottom as Jim, because that is my name. In interest of brevity, others have used PF – just like NOP, instead of noonespuppet – which is fine by me, and I occasionally use that. At the risk of being a little brusque, get your facts straight before you shoot off your mouth. The archives of this blog are readily available, but it takes a focused attention to search them.

    2) So you are into spanking, huh? Actually, that’s good: these days *lots* of middle-aged women are experimenting with mild BDSM. “Fifty Shades of Grey” is #1 on the NYTimes bestseller list right now. Reviews refer to it as “mommy porn.” Perhaps it’s for you?

    3) As to recent history, please enlighten us.

    4) georgio, gregieo?…… WTF? Lori, if you need some ADD meds, I can hook you up with some good doctors who specialize in that…and for God’s sake, turn on the spell-checker and dig out your eighth grade grammar text to learn when “quotes” are appropriate. I’ll give you a leg up: they are “not” used for “emphasis.”

    Now, about those cites? So far you haven’t done well with such challenges; perhaps today your luck will change. (((LOL LOL LOL)))


    (That’s my name.)

  501. Well, Lori: You may be right. But he’s certainly tried to be more constructive since then and does make interesting points. The contrast with Noah couldn’t be greater: never anything to offer, the constant b.s. and bids for attention. I’m good with Pfesser.

  502. ohh and don’t forget about the georgio.. or gregieo (sp>?) stage..

    What am I sayin.. Im sure yiu don’t.. ;-)

  503. LOL LOL Donna, you probs forgot Pf started as “Jim”.. then morphed ( a couple of times) into the spanker Pffer… No matter… we know enough “recent” history to form an opinion..

  504. Further proof we have no common ground with Democrats.
    Pelosi: “we have a clear agenda to amend the first amendment in the Constitution”


  505. Are you sure about this, “STRIKING Zimmerman was, however,” that SYG law seems to apply to just this kind of circumstance. How do you know, if Martin realized Zimmerman had or didn’t have a gun? And how would that make any difference? Anyway, the trial should be interesting and of course enlightening in so far as how the STG law is actually applied. But I do think a lot of factors contributed; such as the SYG law and perhaps poor lighting. The thing is though, the law won’t go to prison and neither will the street lighting, someone is dead and Mr. Zimmerman’s attorney has a tough job ahead of him defending his client. I hope in the meantime all the publicity and gossip die down so he can get a fair trial.

  506. Good morning, all. Lori: Pfesser is correct about the history here. And about the fact that he and I have exchanged apologies. Disagree with him when you do (I sure will) but I believe you are referring to someone else. Have a good day, everyone. And Pfesser: Lori is someone who admits when she’s incorrect about someone. You’re both good peeps.

  507. NOP -

    Points well made. I, of course, live in VA now, and it is a bad, bad place to commit any crime with a gun, as you automatically get an additional ?6 yrs? on your sentence and there is no parole here. If you get ten years, you serve ten years.

    Having said that, as we have all noted, we don’t know what happened, since one participant is dead – so lori’s declaration about the “stalker rushed him” is just so much supposition, as is the idea that Martin did, paraphrasing, “whatever he could do to save his life after being pursued by an armed Zimmerman.”

    First of all, “armed” at that point is irrelevant to Martin’s reaction, since he did not know Zimmerman was armed.

    By Z’s account, he did give chase after M started to run, but then lost M, who was a trained athlete – which Z was not – and started to walk back to his car only to be confronted by Martin, who apparently had doubled back around.

    Zimmerman ‘way overstepped his bounds and should in no way ever have pursued Martin, no question about that, but what he did was NOT ILLEGAL. Nor was Martin’s confronting him. STRIKING Zimmerman was, however. Just trying to be fair here.

    lori opined on another matter:

    ” I could have sworn when you stormed onto the screen calling poolman (and all others on this site) derogatory names and declaring your superior intellegence, you also announced you were a TPer.. Butttt, maybe I just assumed you were cause you acted like one.”

    You are misinformed. The posts are still there. It is not my custom to name-call, although occasionally even I can get fed up. If you find a post where I “declare… .. superior intellegence,” or call anyone a derogatory name, please inform me and I wil apologise. (I have already apologized to Donna for my part in our unpleasantness, and she to me.) My guess is that you can not. I could be wrong. Have at it.

  508. I feel sorry for them too NOP. But as we all try to teach our kids, we are where we are in life as a direct result from the choices we make. Had Zimmerman done what he was told to do, he would not be in shackles testifying at his own murder trial. And Trayvon’s parents would be taking pictures of him attending his senior prom this weekend, instead of visting his grave sight.

  509. Lori is correct, the trajectory of gun shot, gun powder residue, bruising on the victim,etc will tell a compelling story. I am glad I’m not on that jury, I do feel sorry for both families, the Martins and the Zimmermans, put that enter the jury’s minds until afterwards. I know because, I was a juror on a murder trial, afterwards and only afterwards, we jurors discussed how simple it would have been for that tragedy to have been avoided. Same in this case, Zimmerman went way overboard when he pursued Martin through the neighborhood, and a horrible tragedy resulted.

  510. The stand your ground law does not allow you to kill someone even if you didn’t throw the first blow.

    I have to tell you, if someone was following my husband through our neighborhood he wouldn’t just wait to be attacked from behind. I know he would turn to his stalker and face him nose to nose. If at that time the stalker rushed my husband he wouldn’t just stand there and let him attack him, he would fight back pushing him to the ground. Possibly resulting in the back of stalkers head being hurt. If while on the ground the stalker pulled a gun and shot my husband, the result would be a shot at close range with an upward trajacetory.

    Soooo nooooo, we still don’t know if it happened JUST as Zimmerman says.

    Pf sorry to call you a Tea Person. And i mean that sincerely, I wouldn’t call my worst enemy that if it weren’t true. I could have sworn when you stormed onto the screen calling poolman (and all others on this site) derogatory names and declaring your superior intellegence, you also announced you were a TPer.. Butttt, maybe I just assumed you were cause you acted like one. ;-)

    It’s a beauuuutiful day in the great state of Texas.. I’m about to take advantage of it…

    HAGD.. allll xo

  511. PFesser, just for your information, we used to live in Virginia and my husband had a concealed weapon permit. Well to keep this simple, if you get out of the car with your weapon and an injury or death results in Virginia, you are automatically considered the aggressor and put on trial.
    Now I don’t know what happened and won’t pretend to, but didn’t Mr. Martin have just as much right to “Stand His Ground” as Mr. Zimmerman? Consider that in the courtroom yesterday, it was established that Mr. Martin was 70 feet from his back door when he was shot, he got that close to safety, of course he would do whatever he could do to get inside to safety. If he, Mr. Martin, shoved Mr. Zimmerman, if he punched Mr. Zimmerman in the nose can you know a better reason for him shove, punch, claw him with his fingernails or… to try to save his, Martin’s, life after being pursued through the neighborhood by an armed Zimmerman? This PFesser is why we have trials. You aren’t doing Zimmerman any favors by putting out all kinds of different possibilities on Internet blogs. It is high time for you to consider your own bias. Try it, it is a growth experience, make a better person of you.

  512. PFesser-
    Before we do much of anything, I think we need to reconcile our own rather peculiar views with each other and as relates the country we want.
    Since WWII we have given a lot of subsidies in the form of tax breaks to big business with some notion that would allow for development and jobs and all. Up until Congress and Pres Clinton “modernized” banking law we had some firewalls in place-


    not enough , but some.
    The so called “financial products” which the financial sector bought and traded in in the inflated housing boom , the starve-the-beast crap from the right , and the clueless aquiescence of the left for too long in some notion that we would all rise if the overall flow of money was good ( neoliberal economics with a social justice aspect) all figure into where we are now.
    I don’t think amending the Constitution to get rid of the IRS and trading one entity for at least 51 more is a good start.
    The revenue neutral thing is kind of a shell game as best as I can see but am still reading about it all.
    None of it much matters though if we don’t get congress to spend the $$ more sensibly though… is just a shift in revenue stream generating function

  513. alaskapi -

    Points well made. Like I said, I’m not married to any particular solution, but from what little I know about it, this is one of the better ones.

    Of course, as you have pointed out, there are problems, but there will be problems with any system – as well as problems getting it up and running – but the bottom line for me is, will it be worth it? THIS system has problems too – and I believe far WORSE problems – including the fact that the wealthiest pay very little tax, relatively speaking.

    As for the cost of the “prebate,” that has been figured in. Net-net the program is touted as being revenue-neutral. Who knows how it would really work, though…

    It seems to me that it would be worth the change, and worth working out the problems. What we are doing now is SO wasteful.

  514. PFesser- here’s a piece of my concern- note the eventual conclusion ( by proponents as well as detractors) that middle class Americans would pay more under the program.


    also- note
    1-that many so-called products that are not taxable under most current schemes like rent and all would be taxable. As this tax proposes to do away with payroll taxes , this becomes an interesting problem with how programs like Social Security are funded and managed, amongst other problems.
    2- note the Fed govt paying taxes on its own purchases… costs us all more.
    3- NOT noted by most pie-in-the-sky economist types on either side ( or in between) is that this set of taxes would be collected at the “street” level and remitted to the federal govt under a scheme which would put sellers on the front line for tax collection.
    This should concern Americans , as citizens and consumers. It’s all well and good and proper to despise the IRS but it is an entity dedicated to collection of taxes in our name, our collective name. Trading that for a vast network of collectors under a scheme designed to get rid of the IRS , with a rather amorphous set of entities overseeing the collectors (state income tax boards mostly) is a whole new world of rules and regs- no matter what the economists say.
    Here in Alaska we don’t pay state income tax but in a home rule borough like mine we have more taxing authority than most places. We charge ourselves property tax and sales tax and it all stays in the community. The state legislature has authority to limit some things we can do but not much compared to Outside . We already pay sales tax on services, including labor, some government services, food and so on. There are some real problems associated with managing it and quite frankly some real problems with what it does to costs for young families ( we have a number of exemptions for seniors like 50% off property taxes and no sales tax) and what it costs local businesses to manage their collection and remmitance to the borough.
    The prebate program the Fair Tax proposes comes with a hefty price tag no matter whose numbers you use and creates yet another area needing regs and oversight.
    Anyway- those are some of the issues I have with the Fair Tax- which I just do not see as fair to everyday people or small business.

  515. mageen -

    Here is the photo.

    Note this is ABC News, not Fox.


    You express your POV very well, and for the most part I agree. I do have a problem with the idea that the Republicans always want smaller govt and less influence on people’s lives; they certainly have not been behaving that way recently, IMHO. Their meddling in people’s personal lives is the reason I became a Libertarian about twenty years ago. (Not a Tea Party member, lori. ((LOL LOL)))

  516. Have questions about the photo of Zimmerman’s head with “blood”. Where was the blood when he arrived at the precinct? Re: blood loss – he was walking normally in the video. Also, does the Sanford police department have any forensic people who might have discovered blood on the sidewalk where all this allegedly happened.

    This probably won’t do GZ much good inasmuch as he was told not to follow the kid, but he did and his own actions got him into this mess. He really should have stayed in his vehicle. Even a fish wouldn’t get caught if he kept his mouth shut.

  517. I don’t know what happened to my post; it may float in later.

    In any event, alaskapi:

    Fair Tax. I don’t know much about it except that it was crafted by a group of businessmen and economists who thought it was the most efficient way to collect taxes, eliminating 200,000 IRS positions and literally billions of dollars of cost in tax collection. It also spreads the tax burden more fairly across the taxpayers, including the wealthy, and relieving the burden on the middle class, according to what I can glean.

    NOP – did you see the ABC News photo of George Zimmerman’s head, streaming blood? It looks like things happened just like he said. Reports are also that Martin had gunpowder burns, indicating a very close shot, and a bullet-track that indicates he was shot from below – as would be expected if he were sitting astride Zimmerman. Remember the Duke Lacrosse case, where the players were tried and convicted in the press? It was all a fabrication, remember? I think we need to get a collar around this media before they cause someone to get lynched.

  518. Romney is too close to the Koch Brothers for my liking.

    Missing you Helen and Margaret. I hope all is well with you and yours.

  519. Ive been looking at the issues we face as we enter into the election season proper. The more I look at it the more I have concluded that things have really changed. Changed in such a way that we really have no more common ground.

    Obama and the Progressive movement has taken the Democrat party way left of where it used to be. Progressives by definition are Communists. They may have changed the flavor and toned down their rhetoric but their end goals are the same. Progressives very much want government controlled capitalism, much in the way China has. Progressives want the government to take control most every aspect of our lives to achieve “fairness” in all things. Something they feel only government can do.

    The Progressive party, should they continue on, will fundamentally change who we are as a nation. We have seen our government give itself the power to arrest its citizens at will without representation. We have seen our government give itself the ability to force commerce on its people. We have seen our government take control and ownership of companies. We have seen our government decide who stays in business and who goes under.

    By contrast Republicans for the most part want limited government involvement in all things. They want deregulation and for government to get out of the way of business and let them do what they are good at,namely making money and thus revitalizing our economy and solving the unemployment issues.

    These two points of view are mutually exclusive. One philosophy takes us north on the path our country has been on for generations. The other takes us in the opposite direction on a path I feel our founders never intended. To compromise, when one has a choice of north or south, left or right, there is no going half way. There is no common ground or compromise. Neither side can tolerate what the other side wants without defeating their own cause.

    Neither side will give us campaign finance reform. Neither side will give us a simplified tax code. Neither side with give us meaningful education reform. So both sides have significant issues. Fundamentally it comes down to damage control. Who will do the least damage in the next 4 years? Who can we count on to hold true to the cherished traditions and beliefs that this nation was founded on?

    For me that answer is the Republican party. Progressive thinking is founded on changing the statues-quo. I know the system isn’t perfect, but it is in my opinion the best out there in the world. We should never be so closed minded that we no longer entertain the idea of change, but that change should be measured and gradual. Progressives and their ilk are to radical and to impatient for gradual change. They are a complete departure from what we are as a nation.

    As long as we have sects in our nation that believe we need to leave the founding principles that made us who we are, we should no longer expect the two parties to work together. I will not support a candidate who gives me even the slightest notion of compromise. For this reason I am actually considering voting for Obama.

    Romney is too close to Obama for my liking. If we vote Obama out, the Progressives willl go on and on about how they were not given enough time to effect real change, and this in my opinion will give them good cause to return. However, if we hunker down and let them have another 4 years to let everyone see the folly of this path, we may put a final end to this. While it will make our recovery very much more difficult, I think we will never again have to travel down the road to Communism/Socialism ever again.

  520. I was wrong about the length of the hearing, Zimmerman’s lawyer was able to elicit some of the prosecution’s evidence against Zimmerman, but probably not as much as he would have liked. Anyway the defense prevailed and bail was set.

  521. I am listening to Zimmerman’s bail hearing this morning, it appears that the hearing will last most of the day.

  522. someone else posted about sarcasm…or was it hyperbole……..
    and Obama did talk about “belt tightening” and not wasting money in Vegas…
    get over it Mageen

  523. Looks like I need to stand up for Vegas, I love living here. Good weather, bargains everywhere (including freebies), and it is the entertainment capitol of the world. For the life of me, I cannot understand how GSA employees blew through so much money, they didn’t gamble or drink; seems they overpaid for cheap souvenirs and so so food. Wonder if the planners of that particular shindig got a kickback on all this crap they blew so much money on? That might be the burning question that needs to be asked.

  524. yes no Lib can be directly blamed. They cannot stand alone and be held accountable for their individual actions. If one is found, then distract with a look at the “big picture” that way this person can be the victim of his environment and thus cannot be held accountable.

  525. Vegas is the absolute last place I would ever want to be! Frankly it is just sad that a state has to look upon gambling as an economic engine. As for Harry, his folks elected him to look out for the state. For that matter so does the local Chamber of Commerce, Board of Tourism, etc. etc. If you really want to spread it around, UAW, include them in your rant.

  526. OH GREAT….
    Harry Reid caught on camera encouraging trips to Vegas……Think GSA…….

  527. I agree….
    R.I.P. Dick Clark

  528. Damn….
    Romney puts one on his roof in a kennel and Obama eats one(that’s dog people…. )!!!!!!!…..and I thought I was doing good with tibbar(rabbit backwards), coon, muskrat,deer.and caribou…….

  529. R.I.P. Dick Clark

  530. Misconceptions and Realities About Who Pays Taxes


  531. lori-
    Sorry- didn’t respond.Spring means real life speeds up and gets very intense as daylight lengthens here – so much to do in a short time :-)
    I think as long as the multiple challenges to publically funded elections along the order of Citizens United and buckley v Valeo stand, we will have to work on all the other fronts,
    PFesser- the more I look at the stalled Fair Tax proposals the more I’m convinced it’s a shell game on multiple fronts and peculiarly non fair when it comes to how it would be managed .We love to hate the IRS and our tax law is a mess but think the FT is not the answer.
    something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately is that “bias” in the media (and elsewhere) is too easy an answer to too many questions we have amongst ourselves and across the country. The notion that bias is bad in and of itself ignores that we are all biased yet we accept our own worldviews as sufficient to the task of explaining what is going on around us to ourselves. There’s something basically self-cannibalizing about that…
    Dear Helen and Margaret-
    We are having great fun yakking away here but sure would like to hear what’s on your minds these days :-)
    Thanks for having us all in.

  532. when i say I walked into the room.. I mean the room I go to with my dogs so they don;t get into her way…

    anyway.. true story a couple weeks later she brings me this evaluation she wants me to fill out so she can get a job with a local company.

    When I got to the question of her honesty, I said wellllll I can honestly say she brings back the things she steals if you ask her too! LOL LOL

  533. well the proof was when I walked into the room my TV was playing when I walked out it wasn’t. When I went to turn it on my cord was gone! Lmaooo.. She and I were the only ones in the house..

    I text her and told her to bring back my cord! LOL LOL she did… all is forgotten..

  534. LMAO…..
    got pictures/proof……..
    serious accusations there Lori…….
    YES,,,who does that???????

  535. LOL LOL yes she is legal UAW…she stole my cable cord though.. Who does that? LOL LOL

  536. and to find out that Lori is part of the 1%ers……
    “Butttttttttt just because I’m in a good mood today and am stuck in the room with my dogs while the housekeep finishes up her work I will indulge you just this once with a bit ”
    Is she legal?

  537. Iraq war ended Dec 15 2011. Check

    Another “Mission Accomplished” moment?


    The United States is scheduled to pull out 33,000 troops from Kubal by the end of 2012. Check

    Why would the GOP oppose it? Seems it will be a privatization success story and they like those.


  538. Anyone earning approximately $114K – $380K/year + paid 70% of the collected Federal Income Tax. HALF of America paid NO Federal Income taxes AT ALL.

    So we already know this grouping feels that even this is till not fair. What do you then consider to be fair?

    Of the half that paid nothing in, many still got money back, thus actually showing a profit. Profit being defined as putting nothing in and getting something from it. So half pay nothing, and we want to expand social services more. Half make no contribution to the system and of that half 95% take from it. Any part of this sound sustainable, let alone expanding it being possible? Could anyone show me with this mentality how we are not heading down the road of Italy, Greece, Ireland, and others?

  539. Sorry that should read golf game

  540. lori, some of us believe in finishing a job. We went into those countries, right or wrong we have a responsibility to finish what we started. I saying this knowing how repulsed you are by the word responsibility.

    Some of us remember our history, in regards to Iran. Some of us see the logic in not letting them acquire nuclear weapons.I am sorry you do not possess the foresight to understand this.

    Just so we remain true to the facts. Bush bombed Iraq and Afghanistan during his presidency. Obama bombed Irag, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya during his term so far. He still has time to get 1 or 2 more in.

    Obama has managed to take several strokes off his gold game though…so there is that.

  541. Im sorry lori could you quote where you listed your response to Obama empowering the government to arrest its citizens for not buying their product? I looked up top and could not find 10 responses to this so I guess that makes you a liar.

  542. Will there ever be another original post by Helen? What does everyone think?

  543. Iraq war ended Dec 15 2011. Check

    The United States is scheduled to pull out 33,000 troops from Kubal by the end of 2012. Check

    Something the republicans are against BTW.. not only do the Republicans want to stay in Afghanistan they want to INCREASE forces ANDDDD enter iran and Syria..

  544. anon.. all that stuff u said up ^^^^^^ has been addressed at least 10 times wayyy up ^^^^^^^.

    Back to Obama’s accomplishments.

    Lets talk about banking reform, since that has been mentioned today..

    1) Signed a sweeping bank-reform bill (the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act)into law
    2) Managed the $700 Billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) that Banks have repaid more than 100% of TARP funds ($251 of the $245 banks owed) as of March 2011 exceeding the original investment by $6 billion.
    3) Cuts Salaries of 65 Bailout Executives
    4) Closed offshore tax safe havens, tax credit loopholes on companies that use the tax laws to ship American Jobs oversees. HR 4213.
    5) Signed into law the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act to fight fraud in the use of TARP and recovery funds, and to increase accountability for corporate and mortgage frauds.
    6) Signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure Act

    Obama has done more to reform banking than ANY other President ever….

  545. Lori, I stand corrected. It was Hillary that voted for it. And since it was lies that were presented to the congress, I suppose she could not be held accountable then. But Ron Paul voted against it.

    Let’s review his prophetic “lunacy”…

    Obama said he was going to end those and bring troops home right away, a campaign promise made over and over again. What happened?

  546. Hard to imagine lori supporting our government forcing us to buy a product and jailing us if we do not comply. Hard to imagine lori trusting this administration when they have already shown how irresponsibly they are with our tax dollars. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/gsa-las-vegas-conference_n_1429899.html?ncid=webmail10 The do as I say not as I do party like Warren Buffett who is being sued by the federal government for more than $1 billion in unpaid taxes, interest and penalties. The same person who thinks the rich should pay more.

    Thanks lori for showing us that, like Mr. Buffett, the standards you hold are for everyone else, but not yourself. You may submit your excuses now, or stick your head in the sand.

  547. me thinks your vison from the “center” isn’t as clear from the center as you may think.. Check your glasses.. jussssssssssss sayin. ;-)

  548. Poolman my love.. Obama was sworn in as a US Senator on Jan 2005. The joint resolution vote for the Iraq war was taken on Oct 11 2002.

    Kinda tough to vote on soemthing 3 years before you are sworn in. ;-)

  549. I noticed the person demanding answers from others does not set the same standard for herself.

    You say it will pay for itself in a few years. In this part of the country a few is about 3 or so years. You have any documentation that can back this up?

    Doesnt matter what party’s policies we are talking about, when interest payments on debt reach $1 trillion, a doom and gloom conversation is necessary.

    So your defense of this bill is that since the Republicans supposedly didnt care about the budget way back when you do not need to care about it now? Really? Thats the best you got?

  550. Well, yes. We ALL have opinions. But I don’t see the left as any better (or much different) than the right. When there WAS a window of solid democratic majority and good things COULD have been done, they weren’t.

    Both parties are run by special interests and are corrupt.

    Did it matter when the Republican White house thrust us into a senseless war that costs us to date 3.7 TRILLION dollars… and climbing?

    Yes. And Obama voted FOR them. Ron Paul did not. Loon behavior, right?

    Republicans HAVE wasted money on wars. And this administration has continued that trend and even kicked in overdrive.

    Vision is much clearer from the center.

  551. It amuses me this whole the.. country is dying… we are destroying our country… Mayan doomsday state of mind… only occurs when we talk about Democratic policies. Policies, I might add, that will pay for themselves in a few years and in the mean time help million and milllions of Americans.

    Those aurgements might be more credible if there was even a wordddddd uttered about the money Republicans have/are wasting on wars and tax cuts for the rich.

  552. Did it matter when the Republican White house thrust us into a senseless war that costs us to date 3.7 TRILLION dollars… and climbing?

  553. Does it matter that it gives our government the power to force us to buy a product and fine/jail us for non complaienace.?
    Does it matter that Obama was billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars off on how much this is going to cost us? I know some feel it will save money at some distant point in the future and thats all good and well but we have to live through the costs now.
    Does it matter that we will be pushed furthest into debt than we have ever been as a nation with no possibility of ever getting out of that debt as our interest payments will be over $1 trillion by 2018?

  554. Our family has been touched by that beast too Mageen, 3xs.. as sooooo many others have. At least now, thanks to Obama and the democratic House and Senate, people battling the disease don’t have to worry about having the insurance company dropping them from coverage, or being denied coverage because of a pre exisiting.

    Continued good thoughts going your way. xoxoxoxo

  555. Lori, good stuff and appreciated even more as we as a family go through the experience of cancer.

  556. Ron Paul is a loon in my opinion…… insignificant, not relevant , a joke. You have a different opinion.. okie dokieee..lol There were a lot of people that thought Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman were the next great white hope on the horizon tooooo… every lock has a key. LOL LOL Have at it Poolman.

    Back to Obama’s accomplishments…

    Let’s start with health care reform.

    Not sure how anyone can say it’s worse now than it was before? Maybe those who think that way should talk to the millions, and millions of people this bill has (or soon will ) allowed access to avoidable healthcare. Something they did not have before.

    Here is some talking points for ya.. and BTW talking points aren’t necessarily a bad thing. Especially when I give them.. LOL LOL

    Have a fun day all.

    1) Coverage can’t be denied to children with pre-existing conditions.
    2) Adults up to age 26 can stay on their parents’ health plans.
    3) Free preventive care.
    4) Rescinding coverage is now illegal.
    5) Eliminating lifetime limits on insurance coverage.
    6) Restricting annual limits on insurance coverage.
    7) More options to appeal coverage decisions.
    8) $5 billion in immediate federal support to affordable Coverage for the Uninsured with Pre-existing Conditions.
    9) $10 billion investment in Community Health Centers.
    10) Create immediate access to re-insurance for employer health plans providing coverage for early retirees.
    11) Made an $80 billion deal with the pharmaceutical industry to contribute to cut prescription drug costs for the nation’s seniors reduce the size of the “donut hole” in the Medicare (Part D) Drug Benefit.
    12) Provides a $250 rebate to 750,000 Medicare Beneficiaries who reach the Part D coverage gap in 2010. As of March 22, 2011, 3.8 million beneficiaries had received a $250 check to close the coverage gap, according to an HHS report.
    13) Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering up to
    >35% of employee premiums effective 2011 and a 50% tax credit effective 2013. 14) Creates a state option to provide Medicaid coverage to childless adults with incomes up to 133% of the federal poverty level. By 2014, States are required to provide this coverage.
    15) Provides a 10% Medicare bonus payment for primary care services and also a 10% Medicare bonus payment to general surgeons practicing in health professional shortage areas.
    16) Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) requires that insurance companies spend at least 80 to 85 percent of the proportion of the premium dollars on clinical services. As an example, WellPoint’s Anthem Blue Cross unit in California has reduced its proposed rate increase.

  557. And he is Black. Is that not true?

  558. Gun sales have climbed for the past decade, faster after Obama was elected. He really has done nothing to suppress gun ownership or the second amendment, despite the rhetoric from the right.

    I think it is primarily that the media has stoked the public’s fear.

    As to violations of freedoms in a bill, I just don’t think Obama can do much, yet he gets blamed for all of it. But he has turned those tables on his political opponents a few times.

    But it must be determined if he is just a.) a “normal” politician, b.) a serial liar, or c.) a figurehead with no real power. My best guess is a combination of a and c.

    A second term would give him more freedom to push his agenda, as he eluded to Medvedev. If I was a gambling man, I’d say with today’s odds, he will get the chance to prove it.

  559. Can we back up a second? Why are perceived violations of freedoms in a bill with bipartisan approval that were in place for only as long as it took to undo them (while keeping our military and vets paid) a bigger ding against Obama than ALL the real freedoms we gave up under Bush that Bush (and now Obama) didn’t undo? Sorry, I know that was horrible grammar but I hope you smart people can see what I expressed so poorly.

    While we’re at it, why is the NRA nastily campaigning against a President who hasn’t done a thing to expand gun control? In fact, several states (not a reflection of Obama, of course) have EXPANDED gun rights? They’ve had it really easy, much to my chagrin.

  560. Okay, back into the fray…

    Just because they are Ron Paul’s GOALS, why are they dismissed as merely talking points? How can you dismiss him as a loon? I think he is the ONLY candidate with a solid plan that he has enumerated and articulated. He has also been CONSISTENT in his message for decades. That means he’s not a flip-flopper. And his voting record is proof of his convictions. That means he’s not a liar. He is also an MD and a military veteran. I’d say his resume holds more weight than ALL the others.

    We’ve had our share of lawyers and businessmen. Time for a physician. This country is SICK and dying on the vine. And you want more benefits?

    RP proposes cutting the deficit by a TRILLION dollars the first year.

    Unfortunately Obama’s answer is to let Bernanke print more fiat money, putting us further in the hole. Bailing out banks and huge corporations has not helped the common man. It has put him deeper in debt. Now we are using the Fed to bail out the euro, at our expense. Why are you fond of the Fed?

    Obama’s “talking points” ended up be falsehoods.

    Shut Guantanamo. NOT
    Repeal the Patriot Act. NOT
    Health care reform. NOT (it’s actually worse)
    End these illegal foreign wars. NOT (we’ve started more)

    I can go on. We are doing NATO’s dirty work and promoting genocide.

    Can we admit any of this and really face reality? Or are we just going to keep spinning it?

    Really, RP is the only one that COULD beat Obama IF he was the GOP nominee. At this point it seems he will not. And the reason is not because he is crazy (as you keep stating), but because the banksters are in control of the game and Romney is their current crony. And yes, we have plenty of time between now and November. Many things can change between now and then.

    Even Obama is NOT the banksters choice, anymore, though he has done MUCH to improve their bottom line and further empower them. He sure did owe them plenty for putting him where they did. We’re suffering for it.

    Goldman Sachs is calling the shots, or haven’t you been paying attention?

  561. At least you have Donna here to tell when its ok to talk or not. There is that.

  562. Been in trial. Just finished last week. Hope you are well! Missed you too–xxo

  563. Waving to Donna! Didn’t see you there.. How u been? What have u been up too? I have missed you. xo

  564. WElllll anon… I guess I’ll have to deal with the fact that you think I am lacking in character. I’m not sure I’ll be able to go on in life.. But I’ll give it my best shot and carry on like a good lil girl.

    But I still have to say I don’t understand how eliminating the EPA is going to solve the problem of Obama having to sign a massive bill even t hough he disagrees with a portion of it JUST SO our vets can get a paycheck. Or how the Tea Party movement made that better? OR How Ron Paul talking points will solve a damn thing? I THOUGHT that was where this discussion starts. ;-) silly me…

    Nor do I see how the TEA Party movement made anything better when it stormed the house.. in fact it’s worse..

    anyway Im done for the day,.. a new CNN poll has Obama up 52 – 43… It won’t stay there.. Obama typicaly has bad summers.. But for today I’ll take it… Life is good.

    love yinzs all ;-)

  565. Lori, dear: Please don’t even attempt to respond to Noah in his latest incarnation.

  566. sorry wireless keyboard not keeping up.

  567. lori excuses are a time a dozen, you dont comment because you have no ground to stand on. Not an insult but the truth. Your character is the only thing preventing you from admitting it. Common sense is funny that way.

    FYI, when your only defense is that it is a talking point, what you should just say is either (A) I really no nothing about the topic so I chose not to comment or (B) your logic is undeniable and I do not have it in my to admit I am wrong or cannot come up with an adequate defense.

  568. and PF, as far as your Ron Paul talking points? those have all been discussed at nauseam on this blog. Just about everyone on this board chimed on on the 100000 of Ron Paul discussions. Pi took the time to go through every single on of your/Paul’s talking point and tell you what she like or didn’t like about each of them. We all did, you just didn’t like what we said.

    I don’t like Paul, he is a hard core conservative POLITICIAN dressed up in a clown suit. IMHO.. Apparently 90 percent of his own party agrees with me.

    You have a different opinion of RP.. so be it..

    But I didn’t think this discussion was about Ron Paul or Tea Party talking points. I thought it was about how to get things done?

  569. PF, we live in the day and age of texting and twitter. I don’t really like spending time spelling every little thing out when a few words will do….. and I am not going to spend hours bloviating about my personal political resume within the democratic party just to appeal to your idea of intellectual discussions on a silly blog!


    Butttttttttt just because I’m in a good mood today and am stuck in the room with my dogs while the housekeep finishes up her work I will indulge you just this once with a bit

    ….Women’s rights.. When Stupka threatened to vote against the healthcare reform bill because of a trumped up abortion issue I worked within my party to primary him and immediately began work to find someone to replace him, even though he represented a very conservative part of Michigan. In the end he decided not to seek reelection so obviously there was no need to primary him.. but the work had begun.

    Much the same for CFR. I have been working for years, through local and state wide party officials to make CFR a litmus test for all incoming candidates.

    We are currently fighting to get marriage equality added to the platform.

    There.. don’t say i never did anything for ya. ;-)

  570. and anon, I’m sorry but I’m not going to spend much time addressing your foolishness.

    But I will say this….You are a great advocate for your particular movement.

    However your movement died on the vine after it got to the HIll. I will give you it clever way to disguise the right wingnuts. It fooled a lot of people. But it didn’t take long before the “people” that put them there turned on them.. again anon… 20 percent approval rating for congress and I think the TP movement polls lower than the two parties now. ( That is from memory.. it hasn’t been polled in a while, that I have seen)

    Now it is fighting just a spot at the table at the convention! Hell even Paul, who polled somewhere around 10 percent will get the attention of a few.. They might even let him speak!

    You had a chance.. and you blew it.. because at the end of the day a movement needs to be FOR something.

  571. No platitudes, homilies, mom-and-apple pie that we are all in favor of. No credit for vague, incomplete, poorly thought-out, sophomoric answers. You wanted to play with the big dogs, now PLAY. Show us what you have, little girl.

  572. “campaign finace reform, womens rights, gay rights to name a few..”


  573. Anon – thanks for getting me started. We should have some fun. You write well.

    The Fesser’s spanking new policies:

    1) Pass the (28?th) amendment. Congress shall make no laws that apply to the people that do not equally apply to Congress/and vice-versa.

    2) Term Limits. To address the “Not enough time” people, make it 8 years for Senators, 4 years for Congress, 6 years for President. No consecutive re-election, but can run again after sitting out one term.

    3) Flat tax, Fair Fax, tax tables – your choice. Eliminates the IRS and 200,000 IRS jobs, while being revenue-neutral.

    4) Close 600 of our ~750 military bases.

    5) Go back to the Bretton Woods agreement in order to stabilize the dollar, which has lost 95% of its value since Nixon took us off in 1971. You may have to read about that, Lori, or get someone to explain it to you.

    6) Eliminate Department of Education, which has provided NO progress in student education since its inception. Ditto Department of Energy. Ditto EPA.

    7) Eliminate the FED. You will need to get someone to explain the ramifications of that one, too…although I think there is a cartoon online that might be at your level. Here you go…

    That will do for the first day. We can do more the next…

    Your turn. Don’t puss out on me; the ball is in your court.

  574. campaign finace reform, womens rights, gay rights to name a few..

  575. “I’ll keep working for my party rasing money and trying to influence change on policies and platform with grass root organizations.”

    And what, pray tell, ARE those changes? Be specific. No credit given for partial answers.

  576. lori I want to take a moment here and bask int he utter hypocrisy of your statement. I seem to remember or year or more back when I was asking you and yours to provide answers and you were mute. Dont ask of others what you are incapable of yourself.

    lori how about common sense. Tell your welfare party to pay its F*cking bills, Understand that you cannot tax your way into prosperity. Understand that people, not the government, is our greatest asset. Understand that people having the means to provide for themselves is the American Dream, not government programs.

    The Tea Party did not fail. It accomplished things that no other organization in the history of this country ever has. I would go so far as to say it was the most successful movement in our history in terms of actual goals accomplished. You might not like what it did, but they were done with amazing success.

  577. And there you have it folks. The typical snarky, nasty, Tea Partier response when asked for an idea or solution. Precisely the reason their movement has failed. Exactly the reason the “new” congress is at a 20 percent approval rating. Exactly why we can’t even pass a bill that will pay our service people! Look no farther.

    A whole lottta bitchin but no answers, solutions or willingness to roll up their sleeves and discuss matters in a polite and “gentlemanly” way.

    That’s OK PF, keep bitchin, keep writing words words words words about our fore fathers, keep snarking away.

    I will keep fighting for change from the bottom up, I will keep talking to people who not only want a difference but are willing to offer ideas as to how to make a difference. I’ll keep working for my party rasing money and trying to influence change on policies and platform with grass root organizations.

    You just keep a bitchin..

  578. Well spoken, anon. One of my favorite quotes is by Louis Brandeis:

    The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding.

    I think you would have to say that the Congressmen and Senators who passed this bill were definitely both. The President who signed it – the celebrated, brilliant, Constitutional Professor – knows better.

  579. Someone sounds depressed. And someone else is always angry, pity.

  580. thats the problem with incomplete thoughts, no one but you knows really what you are talking about, but then again, maybe thats intentional.

  581. whewwww thought I might on on the wrong track there.. but after reading above.. I know I’m OK.. ;) Thanks anon..

    and on we go….

  582. Could not agree more PFesser. To bad so many feel like lori and consider them lofty goals not worthy of the effort because it is difficult, thus not an option worth considering.

    The problem with this security act and the provision to detain US Citizens is that it should never have been allowed to even appear on the books for any period of time. It is something that should never have been considered let alone to be the law of the land for even a second. Change happens imcrementally. Freedom is taken from us one tiny step at a time. Just having this in existance no matter for how long takes us 1 step further down that road.

    As for Obama, short of high treason, and even then I am skeptical, there is no possible way that people like can be found here would ever consider not voting for him. In their mind, no deed he could do would make a non-democrat an option. Morals, ideals, none of this even matters at the end of the day if choosing someone else isnt even on the table for consideration.

  583. Those are lofty goals PF..Translate it into reality and I’m with you.

    All of us here can tell you whats wrong….. let’s hear some real solutions.. I’m listening.

  584. re: “right in theory”

    You do not compromise principle. If you believe in something, then you act on it; you do *not* say, “Well, I know what we are doing is wrong, but the ends justify the means.” Think where we would be if our forbears had said, “Well, you are right in principle, but fighting the British is SUCH a bother, and we *have to get bigger things done.*

    It is precisely because we have compromised principle and said, well you are right in *theory* but we have to get things done, that has brought us to where we are today. A few freedoms here, a liberty or two there, a right given up, an evil tolerated – pretty soon you won’t have anything left of your country that is *worth* saving.

  585. alaskapi -

    “My Reps don’t see any problem with having passed this on to the Pres and the votes here appear to be veto proof. We need to be after ALL of em. All.”

    I think you have hit on it exactly. People all say, “Throw the scoundrels out!” – but they love *their* scoundrels, so they vote their own reps back into office.

    However, you CANNOT vote for *anyone* except your own scoundrel, so if you vote *him* back in, they *all* stay in office. What needs to happen is that you vote your own representatives out – then maybe something will change.

  586. UAW, what’s your problem, you learned something you didn’t previously know, it happens, get over it!

  587. Well again Pi I agree those are all things we need to look at and it certainly would be nice IF, and that’s a big IF we could make them better. HOPEFULLY one day we can.

    however… LOL

    I don’t have to tell you how much money is spent by the RNC and DNC every year to try and understand how to get people to the polls OR in the case of the RNC how to keep people OUT. Well at least everyone that isn’t white and old. ;-)

    And of course YES the voter should become more informed. Again, I don’t have to tell you how much money is spent on “informing” the voter.

    Howeverrrrr, I think we just have to face the fact that today… now… the “voter” is as informed as it’s gonna get. The more optiosn avaliable to the voter for gaining knowledge is greater than it has been ever in the history of this country, but it seems we have less informed voters..

    As we continue to understand this “new” world in which we live repeating the same old tired mantra of “people just need to vote” or people need to be more informed” just isn’t the answer..

    Who was it that said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result?

  588. lori-
    I think it has to be a multi pronged set of changes.
    Publically funded elections top the list for national elections.
    How far down the chain should that go? State too?
    Figuring out why people do not vote matters a great deal as well


    Education level, gender, age all seem to matter . The concerns that folks lack transport to polls, time off work, etc have resulted in a lot of changes which allow early and/or by mail voting but these things do not account for enough of the absent in the voting booth.
    Paying attention to what Congress is doing is very important, not what the talking heads or party pros say it is doing but reading the bills, following the (mostly boring) track of said bills through committee and on the floor and so on.
    The latter is not nearly as fun as blaming stuff on the Pres (any Pres) or the Rs or Ds and so on but it does change one’s perspective about a number of things- mostly usefully so.
    At the state level , folks need to pay more attention to their legislators and govs as well. We have 2 year sessions here. This go around 595 bills between both houses have been introduced, 71 have passed. A number of important bills have been held up in committee but a concerted constituent effort has moved some out of committee as well. There will be a flurry today since it is end of normal session. The House, Gov , and Senate have been battling over oil taxes for most of session- to the detriment of many important things .
    If we are going to live up to the idea of a nation of laws, not men, it behooves us to know more and stay more engaged.

  589. How nice to find comments from smart people to agree with this morning, instead of disagreeing with stupid one(s).

    Pfesser, like Lori said, you’re right in theory but at the end of the day, Obama wasn’t going to just let people stop getting paid because the House and Senate are obviously willing to play chicken.

    I’d like to extend your explanation of pregnancy dating to point out that the way due dates are estimated do not make a woman 2 weeks pregnant at conception.

    Mageen, thanks for the detailed recap of the language of the bill. Sadly, it’s been explained before and only people willing to read more than bullet points will get it.

  590. How do two parties come together when they are so completely opposite of eachother? When you have one party openly stating that government services are the American dream, while the other believes people create their own Americna dream through hard work, and can do it, better in fact, without the governments inolvement? There is no common ground here.

    mageen, I hope this coming year allows your life to improve enough so you do not need to worry so much about mine. Keep your chin up tiger.

  591. So I said all fo that to say. I agree with Delurker. Obama did what he had to do. Do I like it? no Is it a dangerous practice? yes, Do I wish it were different? yes.. But then again if my Mom had balls she would be my Dad. (See UAW I know nasty words to describe body parts to.. so na na a poo poo on you!)

    LOL LOL peace …

  592. I sure do agree things SHOULD be different on the Hill. I agree there WAS a time on the Hill where both parties, or at the very least people in the same party, worked together on what was best for the country. They passed “simple bills” that could be read and understood by all citizens and when arguments ensued they were not personal and everyone held their duty to their country above all.

    Guess what.. Times have changed. So instead of wringing our hands and talking about years of yore or jumping on the band wagon “with kick the bums out mentality” how about we begin to unwind the ball of yard that has us tangled in this web of failure.

    That starts with …. publicly funded elections. And here is why IMHO: MOST of this partisan ness can be traced back to who funds who’s election, and who the candidate is beholden to. Reps run every two years, which in reality, they are in a constant campaign mode. Even though they have a relatively small area in which to campaign the cost of perpetual campaign mode is exorbitant. Senators are not up for election as often but have massive state wide campaign and duties to perform. That all takes money. Back in the day of our fore fathers.. things were different.

    Take away the need for quid pro quo and you begin to unwind the ball of yarn.

    Next, we need to understand how the Hill works (TODAY), not the way the founding fathers saw it, but today. With all due respect to the Tea People, apparently they didn’t understand the Hill and that is a major reason their movement is/was dead on arrival.. or at the very least in grave condition. That whole “we want our country BACK regressive thinking just ain’t gonna hunt in today’s world. It will NEVER go back.

    The “throw the bums out mentality” won’t make things better, in fact it just might make things worse. Disagree? look at the massive 111th congressional freshman class and ask yourself are things better or worse? is there MORE or less gridlock? is there more or less gigantic complex hot mess bills?

    If we want change and realll change it begins with publicly funded elections. Support candidates who are in favor of campaign finace reform.

  593. Respectfully PFesser- The 86 Senators (including mine)
    and the 283 Representatives (including mine)


    who passed this have a lot of answering to all of us on this too.
    My Reps don’t see any problem with having passed this on to the Pres and the votes here appear to be veto proof. We need to be after ALL of em. All.

  594. delurker opined:

    “No, it means it was part of a massive bill that HAD to get passed or else. Even when he signed it, he said he would not enforce that piece and waived it right away. It seems to be the only way to get things done any more.”

    I have to respectfully disagree.

    Yours is one way to look at it; another might be, that is the way our increasingly oppressive government gets a heinous, oppressive and very likely unconstitutional law passed: they bury it inside another, bigger bill that they say “HAD to get passed or else.” I’m sorry; NOTHING *HAS* to be passed. NOTHING.

    It is very easy to get a law put on the books and very hard to get it off; the LAST thing I want to rely on is a president’s word that he “would never use that law.” That may be true for Obama – or it may not – but nevertheless, if it is available someone down the line WILL use it. You have to stand by your principles; the only proper course IMHO was for BO to say, “If that is in the bill I will veto it. Period.” But he didn’t do that, did he?

  595. page 1562-
    (a) IN GENERAL.—Congress affirms that the authority of the
    President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to
    the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107–40;
    50 U.S.C. 1541 note) includes the authority for the Armed Forces
    of the United States to detain covered persons (as defined in subsection
    (b)) pending disposition under the law of war.
    (b) COVERED PERSONS.—A covered person under this section
    is any person as follows:
    (1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided
    the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,
    or harbored those responsible for those attacks.
    (2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported
    al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged
    in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners,
    including any person who has committed a belligerent act or
    has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy


    It is somewhat disingenuous to assert that the President is the only one responsible for this section of Public Law 112-81 .
    If you search the votes in the House and Senate, you will find it passed with a large majority, as it is a large defense reauthorization act, covering multiple defense issues.
    It is seriously disingenuous to insist :
    1-this law allows for frivilous detention of Americans for being merely disruptive- it is a narrow definition here of “covered persons”
    2- that it is difficult to find the actual language of the law

    If you want to get worried about what constitutes information which can be used to determine whether someone fits (2) I’ll join in the worry.

    This piece of garbage inserted into a huge bill is exactly the kind of game we want politicos to stop. Playing games about who signed /voted what and how when so much other work is at stake in the larger bill misses the point that this is the exact kind of horsepunky we want stopped. Seperate these things out and debate and decide them specifically. Period.

    PF- spring is here. warmer, wetter , birds returning…days gloriously long :-)

  596. AnoNoah, I still say, get some exercise! And that’s not a trick question.

  597. UAWT -

    Pregnancy occurs about 14 days (+- 3-4 days) after the start of the LMP (last menstrual period). The pregnancy is dated, however, from that first day of the LMP even though conception won’t occur for another two weeks because is easy to pinpoint the LMP; the date of conception may not be known.

  598. trick question?

  599. so NOP….
    your really hung-up on the left-right thingy…….if someone misses their period and a month later finds out that their pregnant, are they 6 weeks along or 8 weeks along like the Docters say…..
    It’s not emaculate conception; it’s a math issue…..
    are you that friggen stupid or are you just being a CUNT!!!!!!!!

  600. Thanks No One:s Puppet. How do you tell the people who are the most unhappy with their lives? Just look for the people who comment endlessly on the lives of others.

  601. And Noah, you’re not! Get out there Monday morning and start filling out job applications and tell those lazy friends of your’s to do the same, good lord-a-living, your wives are all too good for you, what must your children think of you. Think about that.

  602. Obama is the 1%. Wonder why Obama didnt follow the Buffett rule? Obama only paid 20% tax rate, far less than the average American. He could have paid in more if he wanted to keep his integrity, but he did not. I wonder if we looked at the money trail if we could find any more proof Obama is for his own club, the 1%’ers?
    Citigroup $45 billion bail out & Donated $701,290 to Obama
    Bank of America $45 billion baulout & Donated $230,552 to Obama.
    JP Morgan Chase $25 billion bail out & Donated $695,132 to Obama.
    MOrgan Stanly $10 billion bail out & Donated $514,881 to Obama.
    Goldman Sachs $10 billion bailout & Donated $994,795 to Obama,

    Obama, you are the 1%

  603. Let’s see, Noah. First you blame Obama for things he has not done. When proven wrong, you moved on to the right to hold Americans and said he’d done nothing to eliminate it. When proven wrong again, you dodged and weaved, spewing phrases intentionally taken out of context. You probably don’t even know what the context is, since you’re on the talking points diet. Now you act like you’re not aware that a person can’t be pregnant before conception. It’s true that the due date is calculated based on LMP, but that doesn’t mean the person was pregnant on the first day of their last period – OF COURSE. A smart guy like you knows that so I guess you’re just up to your stupid games again.

    I’m sorry that life in Beckistan is so terrifying and confusing. You may wish to relocate to the real world.

  604. Sound to me you are making up a extreme dream scenario to support an argument.

  605. This should explain why I said, Arizona is considering a woman pregnant, when in fact she could still be a virgin. http://www.birth.com.au/How-conception-works/Timing-of-sex-for-conception

  606. Obama’s Labor Secretary: “Government Services” are the American Dream.

    I could not have summed it up better, just not possible.

  607. Actually he said he had a problem with the bill because of a particular part that limited his powers and gave it to someone else, if facts mean anything to you.

  608. No, it means it was part of a massive bill that HAD to get passed or else. Even when he signed it, he said he would not enforce that piece and waived it right away. It seems to be the only way to get things done any more.

  609. delurkergurl ..with considerable pressure. But did you miss the fact that after having promised to not sign it, he did indeed sign it. Doesnt this tell us he would rather have it be the law of the land if he had his way? This tells us his true desires for this country. If this was not an election year he would not have given up his favorite part of this act.

  610. OK….
    I googled it….

    Your baby’s due date is calculated from the first day of your last menstrual period.


  611. NOP…..
    I like my responce better than emaculate conception…..

    so tell me..when the DR.asks a pregnant wonan when she had her last period do they start counting from then or subtract 2 weeks??????

    and cows take 9 months also…..and I didn’t have to google it…..

  612. More info if facts interest you.


  613. Anon, this was covered in my post from on March 6, 2012
    at 9:39 PM.

  614. UAW, you need to learn a little biology. Google.

  615. NOP….
    still reading but from what I’ve seen the law restricts abortions after 20 weeks….still reading….OK….the law says that pregnacies start right after the LMP (last menstral period)…..isn’t that also how DRs. count weeks of pregnancy??????


  616. delurkergurl
    Everything I find on the web says that Obama signed into law a security act that allows him to detain US citizens for nothing more than for being considered disruptive, detain them indefinatley, deport them from the country to be held without representation. Do you have something that can contradict this?

    Do you have anything that shows Obama has done anything to repeal any of these other things or is he content at leaving them as is? Has he even made mention in passing he is against any of it?

  617. What does everyone think of the new abortion law in Arizona, that stipulates life begins approximately two weeks before conception? How about they put, “Arizona, home of virgin births,” on their license plates?

  618. Lori….
    I like your idea about gun training……something like the NRA’s Eddie Eagle program would be good in K-2nd……Marksmanship could be a part of Phys. Ed. …….the discussion of self-protection could be in Civics in HS…….gun care and cleaning could be in Home Eq.(I clean mine at the kitchen table)……reloading could be a part of Shop class……

    send donations to


  619. Anonymous, you failed to acknowledge that you said Obama had done those things when he had not. Facts don’t matter to you?

  620. mageen, was more a point to what we are evolving to as a country..for what we once reserved for the worst among us, is now done for our children and the public at large. You chose not to weigh in on the security law though…interesting.

  621. I agree with you Cynthia. Zimmerman was clearly lacking the training that is absolutely necessary to deal with those type of situations. And the “Stand Your Ground” laws, need work.

    My opinions on “gun control” and gun laws are slightly nuance. While I see nothing wrong with the ides of ADULTS owning guns for protection and sport .I feel there needs to be much more education involved before someone is issued a licence.

    As it stands now the only education that I am aware of is state “hunting & gun safety”. Which doesn’t begin to address people owning and operating guns in a populated urban area. I think ALL states need to have a uniformed education program.

    If a person is going to carry a concealed weapon, or wants to own guns (hand guns) for personal protection, I think they should have to go through the training much like a police officer goes through. There should also be a written and practical test. Much like states do for drivers licensees. Not just for the safety of innocent citizens, but for the gun owners own protection.

    For me and my Libertarian bend, that would strike the right balance between “my personal choices” and the “safety of ordinary citizens”. .

    Time and testimony will tell if Zimmerman had more sinister motives when he stepped out of his front door with a gun in his pocket that afternoon.. But for now, at the bare minimum, we can all agree he was in wayyyyyyy over his head. He should have left that situation up to trained police officers. After all it wasn’t like Zimmerman was faced with Trayvon busting in his front door! Zimmerman got in a car and went looking for trouble. Sadly he found it.

  622. Whoa, anonymous! The metal detectors in schools are the result of the local school board’s decision. Metal detectors in prisons are the result of a state decision. Metal detectors at the airport are the result of the Department of Homeland Security founded during the Bush administration after 9/11 which is also involved in the security act you mentioned..

    The weather is improving daily. Get some exercise!

  623. I was just sutting here thinking about all Obama has done to move us away from benig the “land of the free.” Thinking about the laws to control us like the security act to detain and deport US citizens without representation or a day in court. Look what we have evolved too. You go into prison, what happens? You go through a metal detector, then you are patted down. Go to any large school, metal detector and sometimes patted down. Go to travel, metal detector and get patted down. Eh, but then maybe its just my overactive imagination.

  624. lori – I thought Pf was talking about Zimmerman being in the wrong place not Martin.

    I think the bigger problem is this Stand Your Ground law. It allows anyone with a gun/weapon who feels threatened to kill at will. As long as they kill the other person and there are no witnesses the dead person will be the “aggressor” and they can claim self defense.

    This law came about from ALEC for the NRA, Walmart and the gun makers and suppliers. It was not initiated “by the people” who felt there was a need for everyone to carry a gun for protection and shoot to kill if they felt the least bit threatened.

    Now you have two people – one a dead teenager who did nothing wrong and another a young man who may end up in prison for awhile. IMO opinion Zimmerman is a little man with a BIG gun which made him feel POWERFUL and important. Hopefully he will have time to think about taking the life of another human being.


  625. I am anxious to hear all the facts surrounding the Trayvon Martin case too NOP.

    JSRI (or was it Auntie Jean?) wrote a great thing about prejudice and bias and how each of us perceive things based on our personal experiences. Maybe they could be persuaded to re-post it. I know they never read comments over here anymore but mayyybe they will jump in the fray just this once. ;) Hint hint.. LOL LOL

    That posting came to mind when I read PF’s post up there ^^^^. PF has related this case to a story he has heard about his g-father. His g-father was in a place, where he was warned not to go, and ultimately found himself in harms way, merely from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Apparently PF feels Trayvon should not have been walking in his own Father’s and step Mother’s neighborhood the day of his murder? I wonder if PF has ever advised his own children to not walk in HIS neighborhood for fear of being murdered?

    Just things I think about..

  626. Would it be any less tragic if he was an armed teenager?

  627. “What’s wrong with you people? An unarmed teenager is dead! This has nothing to do with the media or the President.”

    Funny you should say that. That’s what I told the President, too, but did he listen to me? Noooooo…..

  628. What’s wrong with you people? An unarmed teenager is dead! This has nothing to do with the media or the President. What idiots!

  629. “My favorite thing from all of this, Liberal media calling him a White Hispanic. Guess you cant have your race card if some part of him isn’t labeled white first….”

    I was thinking about that myself. When the Prez said that, “If (he) had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin,” I was thinking he was wrong. His son would look more like George Zimmerman, wouldn’t he, since both he AND BO (but not Martin) are half-white…I guess BO’s white when that is an advantage and black when THAT is an advantage. Kind of having your chocolate and angel-food cakes and eating them, too.

  630. It is a mistake I think to 1. personalize this case or 2. politicize it. Like I said before, we haven’t heard any sworn testimony or seen any of the physical evidence.

  631. My favorite thing from all of this, Liberal media calling him a White Hispanic. Guess you cant have your race card if some part of him isn’t labeled white first….

  632. NOP -

    This case reminds me so much of what happened to my father in 1918. Long time ago, huh? HIS father had warned him to not go near the “forks of the creek” – where the local young people gathered on the church steps to socialize. There was a WWI soldier living across the creek; he had seen unspeakable things in France and was a pretty humorless fellow.

    The younger kids used to tease him by setting up a fake gun emplacement and poking a stick through the rocks as a pretend howitzer, yelling, “One, two, three, shoot!”

    One day the fellow got tired of it and came over, scattering the kids – but not my dad, who just sat there. He reasoned that he should have no trouble, since he wasn’t doing anything. He was wrong; the soldier decided to tear into my dad, a skinny eighteen year-old with no experience in fighting, certainly not like a soldier. He grabbed my father around the neck and began to beat him in the face. Of course my dad couldn’t get loose from this guy, but he DID have a knife in his back pocket that he could open with one hand.

    He began to sink the knife in the soldier’s back, over and over and over, until he fell away.

    That cost him two years in the worse penitentiary in the country, if not the world, Moundsville State Pen. Eighteen years old; never been out of the “holler.”

    Yep, he had every right to be where he was. *His* father tried to warn *him* that having the right to be there wouldn’t mean anything if there was trouble. He should have listened to the old man. So should Zimmerman have listened to the dispatcher. And a thoughtless Trayvon Martin paid with his life. All so very sad.

    My father has been dead 33 years today. Guess that was why I was thinking about him.

  633. I find it interesting, that a day after Zimmerman’s arrest in Florida, people are still weighting in on the case, including so called experts. None of us have heard any sworn testimony or seen any of the physical evidence, so there is a lot of grandstanding going on. I make one prediction, if after his hearing, he is bound over for trial, I think the trial will be on Court TV and It will have a large audience. I know I will be glued to the set.

  634. 5 days later?

  635. UAW, if you watched the news once in awhile you’d get the joke.

  636. Just got back home…….
    Happy Belated Easter….

  637. PFesser – much appreciation for asking! He is going into radiation treatment next week. This modality is considered the tops and is used straightaway whenever possible in places like Australia and the rest of the world. It is still considered with suspicion by the FDA here but really aggressive treatment centers dare to use it. We have great hopes for a really, really good outcome.

    Weather enjoyment here is just about optimal. A little too breezy to stay very long outdoors doing much needed clean up and gardening. Entire state now has a fire warning due to the wind and the dry conditions. Must remember to lengthen one of my garden hoses.

  638. I hope all my friends are enjoying their day doing what they love best. <3


  639. Happy Easter, Margaret and Helen. May your days be filled with bacony goodness.

  640. Ditto on Easter from Virginia.

    Maggeen, how is your husband feeling? Hope he can enjoy the beautiful weather we’ve been having here.

    Alaskapi, what’s going on up there? Things warmed up any or are you still in the clutches of Ol’ Man Winter? My wife wants us to move up there for a year or two. Good pay, lots of adventure. I don’t know; I’m getting a little past much adventure. Sure would be a good place to learn to be a Real Pilot, though…I’m afraid if I moved I’d never leave.

  641. Happy Easter and Passover to all.

  642. Margaret and Helen, hope you both have a very happy Easter!

  643. Defense Secretary Racks Up $860,000 In Commuting Costs



    Could someone give me that argument again how we are better off having the government run our health care or anything else for that matter? Anyone?

  644. WTF
    Jesse Jackson Calls On Blacks To Wear Hoodies To Polling Places……..
    does that mean that whites should wear hoods also???????

  645. and why would I return the Pepsi, Coke or mac and cheese???????
    surly not because some stupid ass on Huffpo said to!!!!!

  646. UAW, have you made a second trip to Walmart to return the Pepsi, Coke, and Kraft Mac &Cheese yet?

  647. Worth a visit and sign. Vote and vote often.


  648. UAW, have determined how to commit suicide yet? Quick or little by little? You gave me my laugh of the day.

  649. Denoah……
    spit my coffee out laughing so hard…..
    I think blast could use some pie(with a double shot in it)……seems a little tense…..

  650. On my way to Walmart’s to stock up on Coke,Pepsi, and Kraft macaroni and cheese…..sent the NRA a $25 yesterday plus a free 1yr membership to a serviceman($10)……..

  651. People are probably not happy with their lives if they are busy discussing yours. Just sayin.

  652. DeNoah:

    Your bitterness is like a cancer eating you alive. I couldn’t imagine living such a hate-filled life as you do and getting any enjoyment out of it. I couldn’t imagine you being married.

    If you got to know a few of the people you constantly rail about, perhaps your Limbaugh-like virulence might change, though I doubt it. I think it’s pretty obvious that most people on this site ignore you simply because they don’t want to slip to the depths of your depravity. But if you see that as some sort of warped vision of success, so be it.

    Okay. It’s you turn for the usual liberal blah, blah, blah.

  653. ALEC – A review of accomplishments


  654. The IRS sent me back my tax returns AGAIN!!!. I guess it was my response to the question: List all dependents: “12 million illegal immigrants, 3 million crack heads, 42 million unemployed people on food stamps, 2 million people in over 243 prisons, and and 535 fools in the U.S. House and Senate.” Apparently this was NOT an acceptable answer.

  655. mageen….
    when you get the job of overseeing the GSA just remember that caning has been outlawed…….(and if a few on the backside doesn’t help then one upside the head)…….maybe we can get congress to allow it…..

  656. Mageen -

    re: insurance companies. Hear! Hear!

    My nephew is a mainframe programmer for a large insurer in Cleveland. He is aghast at how they conduct business. He told me that they had a huge auditorium-sized room full of cubicles and their only job was to deny claims.

    I also have personal experience: My young son has a cochlear implant; the old model became obsolete and had to be replaced. My insurer (Anthem BC/BS) gave us WRITTEN notice that we were approved and they would pay $7000 of the $8000 cost, but we had to pay for the device and get reimbursed from them. When we applied for reimbursement they first said we were not approved, then failing that, when my wife called they began a run-around of always transferring my her to a different desk, where of course it went into voice mail. They never called back, so when she called THEM, they started the process all over. She estimated she had about thirty hours of phone calls. We eventually wrote the attorney general of Virginia and got $4000 from the bastards – and were glad to get it, which of course was their object all along – wear us down until we gave up.

    Along those lines, several years ago California passed a bill that the insurers had to either reduce their rates or open their books to the public. They lowered their rates. Feh. Don’t tell me about insurers and “free enterprise.” I hope they all go bankrupt.

  657. Everyone I know of on either side of the political aisle was totally blown away by the GSA big buck blowout in Vegas. For one thing, no one, including me, ever envisioned that agency as anything but a huge general store type warehouse full of supplies such as light bulbs. To discover, especially in this manner, that the outfit actually had a head shed was mind boggling. Would like to know who among them decided the agency should fall into the same trap as private firms for a meeting involving “team building”. There are actually organizations that sell this kind of activity to businesses with a cockamamie story that it will actually vitalize a business, etc. Somebody somewhere at a level higher than the head of GSA has to be on the ball and keeping an eye on this stuff. If there isn’t currently such a person, I am available!!!

    As for handling our healthcare, DeNoah, I now have a very thick skin about the “handling” after so many decades of dealing with private healthcare insurance companies that can’t wait to violate their contract with me. If there is any way they can be brought into line, perhaps by a big legislative sortee, then I am all for it.

  658. Martha Johnson, the head of the federal agency that oversees supplies, transportation and office space for the federal government, has resigned amid reports of lavish spending at a 2010 training conference outside Las Vegas.

    What made it so lavish? To start, the General Services Administration’s (GSA) “training conference” cost the taxpayer around $835,000. Staged at a luxury hotel, it featured (among other things) a $3,200 mind reader, $6,300 worth of commemorative coin sets, and a $75,000 training exercise where the attendees tried to build a bicycle. Furthermore, the airfare and lodging for six the “planning trips” for the event cost around $147,000.

    And you want to trust these same people with our healthcare, or anything else involving money for that matter?

  659. It looks like Santorum’s big mouth may have cost the ReBiblicans the fall presidential election.


  660. Anyone know anything about this outfit, Fhtmus?

  661. The full Obama response.
    “Ultimately, I’m confident that the Supreme Court will not take what would be an unprecedented, extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected Congress. And I’d just remind conservative commentators that for years what we’ve heard is, the biggest problem on the bench was judicial activism or a lack of judicial restraint — that an unelected group of people would somehow overturn a duly constituted and passed law. Well, this is a good example. And I’m pretty confident that this Court will recognize that and not take that step.


  662. Noah -

    I have to say, point well-made. I haven’t seen the news today; Obama really said that? Do you have a cite?

  663. Sorry for the transposed n & e above.

    Obama – a former Constitutional Law Professor — to SCOTUS: Obamacare is “constitutional” and it would be “unprecedented” for an “unelected group of people” to overturn it. Apparently he missed the part about checks and balances and 200 years of judicial review! Obama actually taught this stuff?

  664. I just watched “Special Report With Bret Baier” on Fox News, they just stated polls which showed Romney ahead by 4% among women in swing states four weeks ago, without so much as a mention of the latest polls. No wonder Fox News viewers are less well informed than people who don’t follow the news. How do they think playing ostrich helps the Republicans?

  665. Hey thanks for the yuks folks. Nice to know I’ve made a permanent impression on so many of you libs. Paranoia rocks. just an fyi my last post was mid-way down the Pink Razor thread. I’ve found 2 other sites full of lib to kick around as my mission here was accomplished better than I could have ever hoped. James, pfesser, uaw, tex..keep on keeping on.

  666. Donna –

    You never cease to surprise me. A bluegrass fan?

    I always thought Lester Flatt had THE perfect bluegrass voice. Here is my second favorite song of his/Scruggs.’

    My favorite is “Saro Jane.” I can’t find it on YouTube. I may have to put it up myself.

  667. Sarah Palin Co-Hosts TODAY on Tuesday.

    April Fools?

    PEACE ~ Δ

  668. LOL LOL JJ

    and in more news Hillary announces her secret love affair with Ken Starr. ;-)

    Gotta love the first of April..

  669. GW Bush today endorses President Obama!!


  670. don’t be accusing Rush of having hyperbole…He ain’t never caught that disease…..Glenn might have (but would have been in his druggie years)…..

  671. Good morning my friends,

    Hyperbole, a word a lot of people should learn the meaning of and recognize it when they hear/see it.. ;-)

  672. You’re welcome, Donna!
    You and UAW have reminded me why I am not sad I don’t have TV and my radio can’t pick up much except Alaska Public Radio, so thank you both too

  673. UAW: I don’t like either Schultz or Olberman. And I do like both Jon and Steven. But I bet we differ about Rachel–I like her alot.

    Alaskapi: You have completely made my day.

  674. yes , and I love this one with another favorite, Doc Watson

  675. Donna…
    I tend to lump Bill Maher in with Ed Schultz and Keith Olberman….that’s where the double standard is that I speak of…..

    still love Jon and Steven….

  676. thank you, UAW and Alaskapi!!! Isn’t he something?

  677. here you go Donna

  678. Hey Donna….

  679. good morning, UAW–hope you are well. Here’s what I think is a major difference. Maher speaks of himself as an entertainer and comedian and presents his show as pure comedy (even though I don’t find him at all funny). Limbaugh justifies himself as “just an entertainer” but presents himself on his show as offering actual facts and many people then spread what he says as though it were truth. So one is clear on what he is, and the people who enjoy him are equally clear. It is the opposite with the other.

    As for hypocricy, I view Maher as the equivalent of a Sam Kinison (without the screaming) or Howard Stern–don’t care for that sort of “humor.” And I find Limbaugh’s attempts at humor to be, at best, hamhanded and juvenile. But I view Limbaugh as more abhorrent because he presents and is accepted by many as other than that.

  680. new rules….
    and I’m called repugnant……..(actually I thought the chip filled hat was funny)
    Oh…that’s right….Bill Maher is an entertainer…….(and Rush isn’t)????? double standard again…….

  681. Agree, Poolman. Outed by the poor spelling, the misuse of words (“your roll” as though we were talking about hamburger buns as opposed to social functions), the demands (whether or not purportedly couched as requests) and the insults (either “cowardice” or the supposed inability to respond) when people understandably choose not to engage, and the false equivalencies. Sad, foolish person with nothing better to do than constantly appear under a new name and try the same stunts. Who was it who said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

    Good morning, JuneauJoe: I guess I’ve never been a particular Maher fan. I may agree with his positions on certain issues, but just don’t find him funny. Of course, I find relatively few comedians to be entertaining.

    On another topic, I mourn Earl Scruggs. Anyone up for posting a link?

  682. New Rules – very good. Gun Makers need to Thank President Obama.


  683. https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?shva=1#inbox/1366c2bdca7cc820

    APRIL 1, 2012
    Republicans Reveal that Entire Presidential Race was a Prank
    April Fool’s Day Announcement Brings Practical Joke to an End

    WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) – In an April Fool’s Day announcement that took the political world by storm, the Republican Party revealed today that its entire presidential race had been an elaborate prank.

    “April Fool!” exclaimed former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney and former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum at a press conference in Washington, where they were joined by fellow merrymakers Newt Gingrich, Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry and Herman Cain.

    Moments after revealing that the GOP primary had been one long practical joke, Mr. Santorum explained the rationale behind staging such a complicated and expensive prank.

    “A lot of Americans are suffering right now and need a good laugh,” he said. “I think my colleagues and I can be justifiably proud of the entertainment we provided – even if it meant me wearing these ridiculous sweater vests.”
    …Get a free subscription to the Borowitz Report

  684. Whether we’re shooting blanks or filling in blanks, it never ceases to amaze me how circular the jerk is. It most definitely is the hydra. I don’t think more than one pea can subsist in that pod… er, cob. Too early in the season for fresh, I’m thinking canned.

  685. Donna, I can see your roll here is just to cause trouble and to get people fighting. You will be ignored from this point forward.

    alaskapi. We are two different kids of people. I look for the good, while you look for the bad. Per your acknowledging the bad. I think it says something that someone insists the bad be mentioned before allowing the good. But then again this isnt the point, its picking knits to distract from your other agenda. I am imagining that you cannot reshape our country without first destroying what made it great, thus your obsession with highlighting every dark point at the expense of the good. I am sure you are one of those people who think we are the villain in most everything.

    Were we to believe you, our troops are murders, rapists, some of the most vile creatures on the planet. A being to be loathed and feared. I am going to copy all of your conclusions to a couple of vet blogs and encourage some of my brothers log on to give you their opinion of what you think of the American Soldier. This way it wont be just one crazy old mans rantings. Who knows maybe some of them will agree with you, but I am betting not.

    I thought initially my comparison to the Holocaust was a bit over the top. I think now my initial instincts were correct.

    As my final word on this topic it is worth mentioning you passed on the chance to show why your way is better. The anonymity of the internet makes bold even the biggest cowards, but not all it seems.

  686. done engaging, Donna :-)
    - was interested in depth and durability of argumentation there.
    not so much and not so much, eh?
    loving all that paternalistic forgiveness hoobobby, yes I am.
    so much I’m gonna go take my dog on a long walk in the cold sun and laugh out loud a whole lot more where only the pupper and the ravens can hear to spare all of you

  687. oh my corn, thank you for your paternalistic, colonialistic, forgiveness :-)
    just made my day.

    Professing how great we are without acknowledging our failures is still dangerous in my mind.
    No,I wasn’t there for WWII. My parents and elder family were. Each of them has had a tale to tell to flesh out what happened then, many of them full of sacrifice and hard work. There were dark and unforgivable things too, corn.
    And peculiarly probably good things . Folks forget Alaska was attacked and most have no idea what happened here.
    One of the sorriest outfalls of troop buildup here and thankfully fairly uncommon was a type of soldier who thought little Alaska Native girls were fair game because they weren’t real Americans or people somehow.
    I have a picture on my desk of my mother and 3 of her sisters, all of them 4 to 14 years old, at the end of a self defense “training session” some MPs put them through. Sometimes I laugh at the stainless steel bowls they have on their heads to be good lil soldiers of their own safety, sometimes I ponder the deeply fierce looks on their faces, such young faces, and sometimes I cry that such small girls had to be taught to sleep with pieces of pipe to defend themselves from a type of American soldier who more than once broke into their home to harm on a drunken lark.
    their brothers were all in the war , their elder sisters all sent Outside as they were married to soldiers in Alaska, their father suddenly dead and not there to watch over his kids, and their mother trying to work to feed them in a time when there were no safety nets.
    Those MPs who figured out what was up and helped and tried to watch over them still deserve praise, The time and place and behavior of others, not so much.
    Ignoring that such things went on is more like holocaust denial than what you state but oh, well, keep your illusions. No skin off my nose.

  688. My two cents: Corn either is Noah (my bet) or is simply another person who feigns beginning discussion in order to then insult people. The “maybe English isnt (sic) your first language” and the “I will be forgiving” and the self-aggrandizement are the same. Either way, not worth engaging.

  689. Maybe English isnt your first language so I will be forgiving.

    I said: but made no argument or attempt to defend why you think your way is better

    you said: that’s pretty clearly an answer to what I would like to see us do, isn’t it?

    If you do not understand the difference you probably would not be able to answer the question.

    As for your claims about our country, I put them in the same category as those that claim the holocaust never happened. Professing it is so does not make it so. I was there. We accomplished a great many things. This nation you and yours would have us have pales in comparison to the United States of that era.

  690. corn-
    truly laughing out loud:-)
    The last thing an Alaskan Native has is Europe envy :-) I don’t bring my riff about colonialism, genocide, and the like here because most who visit here are far from that fray but suffice it to say the Europeans can have their continent.
    You can call me an apologist if it floats your boat but I see myself as a realist. I’ve spent almost 40 years fixing things, figuring out what the problem is and fixing it. I’ve lived with bosses pretending we can wait or defer maintainence or repairs endlessly and have had to spend inordinate amounts of time trying to convince bean counters we’ll pay more later or take the chance we’ll harm someone. For too many of them the facade of a well managed system is adequate and a notion of a tight-ship runs second best. When you’re the one with your finger in the leak the notions and facades don’t mean much. I think we are always better off counting our successes AND failures and working to right the mistakes and extend the successes.
    and- really.
    I said :
    i’d like to see us dump ACA in favor of a single payer system and provide job training and re-entry services for all in the for-profit insurance industry myself. most of this economic hullaballoo about cost is a protectionist device for keeping us from dropping the middleman of the insurance companies-

    that’s pretty clearly an answer to what I would like to see us do, isn’t it?
    I have no love for the ACA and would like to see us pattern a national care approach similar to what native health has done here in Alaska and across the country.
    we have clinics in the most remote places you can imagine and the frontline health care they provide at no to little cost saves a bazillion dollars in left-untended health issues. good place to start.
    the only real agreement i can see with you is the stoopid addition to law of locking up Americans suspected of having ties with muslim extremists – and no national political group has clean hands on that one.

    sincerely, hippie commie liberal weirdo apologist Pi

  691. alaskapi, we are a great nation and we did great things. You obviously were not there and you are an apologist. Your argument that we had to be saints and perfect for any of the good to count makes you look foolish in my eyes. Of course we did some things wrong, this negates none of the good. We were, and we are an exceptional nation. It is a disheartening that you are so ashamed of what so many millions died to defend. When one has no skin in the game I suppose that makes it easier to do.

    As for firing blanks.
    Remember a certain defense bill passed not to long ago? American citizens can be taken from the United States and sent to a camp at Guantánamo Bay and held indefinitely. It puts every single citizen American at risk with no other justification of imprisonment and suspension of civil rights than for being considered disruptive.

    This mandated medical coverage. Our government can force us now to buy a service and has empowered itself to imprison us if we do not comply.

    The only blanks I am firing are at your shortsightedness. This is all leading to a very bad place. You either cant see it, or desire it to come to pass.

    As for who I am vowing to fight it is people like you who would denigrate and defame the sacrifices and accomplishments we have made. Those who, for lack of a better term, have Europe envy, despite the fact that are on the verge of immanent collapse from the very policies you support.

    I have noticed you have attacked everything I believe in but made no argument or attempt to defend why you think your way is better. I believe because you have ulterior motives, and are smart enough to know not to get into a discussion that ultimately you cannot win or defend, and thereby exposing yourself and your real intentions.

  692. corn- we can merely disgree.
    the proposal that we came together in WWII to do something no other nation could have ever done is hooey. American exeptionalism in all its forms is dangerous. as soon as we start thinking we are special or anointed or looking back at events and declaring we have done something no other could have we risk failure at levels which will eat us up from inside.
    also-be wary who you run that one by if you don’t know everyhting “we” did whilst coming together.
    “we ” gathered up American men, women , and children , burned and ravaged their homes and sent them away to be forgotten “to protect them” from the Japanese


    as these were my people i think i have a pretty dang good idea what can go wrong when we are busy being exceptional without thinking .
    it’s rather much to assume anyone wants the govt to raise your family or surrender any freedoms from anything i said.
    you are filling a bunch of blanks that are not there with that stuff.
    i would hope if you are vowing to fight with somebody or other at your side that you all get clear about what it is you think is at stake and don’t get off on the old POST WWII bogeyman of communism that cost this country untold $$s , lives, and problems during that stoopid cold war we got our buns stuck in for years.

  693. We will just have to agree to disagree alaskapi. I will never think the government can raise my family better than I can. I will never think surrendering our freedoms is a necessary part of any government legislation. I dont know if you were old enough to have lived through WWII but to have that sense of coming together to do something like we did then that no other nation could have ever accomplished is something to behold. There are those of us who will not surrender it willingly or easily. We will fight, and dont you think for a minute we wont.

  694. and you did get it poolman

  695. corn- I couldn’t disagree more.
    unless you say what you think we were being true to as a nation which fell apart in the 90s , not much else to say. we can say we evolved and we can be proud of our forebears dragging themselves and ourselves into accepting and expanding
    notions of civil and political rights to include far more of our populace in a more even playing field.

    1. Rights
    1.1 The Civil-Political Distinction
    Until the middle of the 20th century, civil rights were usually distinguished from ‘political rights’. The former included the rights to own property, make and enforce contracts, receive due process of law, and worship one’s religion. Civil rights also covered freedom of speech and the press (Amar 1998: 216-17). But they did not include the right to hold public office, vote, or to testify in court. The latter were political rights, reserved to adult males.

    The civil-political distinction was conceptually and morally unstable insofar as it was used to sort citizens into different categories. It was part of an ideology that classified women as citizens who were entitled to certain rights but not to the full panoply to which men were entitled. As that ideology broke down, the civil-political distinction began to unravel. The idea that a certain segment of the adult citizenry could legitimately possess one bundle of rights, while another segment would have to make do with an inferior bundle, became increasingly implausible. In the end, the civil-political distinction could not survive the cogency of the principle that all citizens of a liberal democracy were entitled, in Rawls’s words, to “a fully adequate scheme of equal basic liberties” (2001: 42).


    but actualization from paper and thought into fabric of real lives has been stained over and over with damage to real live people and we shouldn’t be preparing any beds of laurels to rest our fannies on and say we have arrived.
    real wages starting falling in the 70s and only the bubbles since then have made the blips which keep being used to obscure the downward trend.

    get real- the insurance companies which act as middlemen between us, our employers, and healthcare are not mom and pop operations. they are corporate collectivist hydras with their hands in multitudes of businesses. my boss and i abandoned the NFIB because of them fronting the argument for big business that all small businesses ( of which we are) would fail if we don’t keep feeding the corporate love fest.
    i don’t care if some portion of what i say is seemingly communist or socialist- i think a nice tidy balance between speed and greed neoliberal capitalism is about right.
    glass-stegall did us proud for a long time- the entitlment 90s are more about business wanting to be freer to do whatever it wanted,. you can blame it on everyday people but it’s the boys and girls at big busness who got the entitlments.
    and please- you missed entirely what my second comment was about.

  696. for a country that yabs on and on about being independent thinkers and do-ers and patting ourselves on the back for being inventive, ready to tackle frontiers and all, we sure are a bunch of stick-in-the-mud let’s-do-it-the-way-we-always-have-whether-it-works-anymore-or-not type folks.

    Insanity, isn’t it? Yes we can, as long as it doesn’t inconvenience us. I’m with you on the middleman thing. We are a country of middlemen. Yes, it would add to the unemployment ranks tremendously to eliminate them, but sometimes the best cure does require surgery.

    Media parrots aside, we’ve given up responsibility and authority along with it to those who don’t have our best interests in mind and it will require us to come out of our comfort zones to gain the upper hand. The movement is swelling.

    The American Dream is/was more of an illusion. For many it has become a nightmare. Not only have we lost many freedoms, but our family and land connections have been severed.

  697. alaskapi I couldnt disagree more. I would go so far as to say we have evolved but we have stayed true to who we were as a nation until the mid 1990′s. Since then entitlement, what we expect our government to do and to provide has gotten all out of wrack.

    As for your notion that the American dream is dead and has been dead I will not subscribe to. It may be dead for you but the rest of us will not roll over and give up so easily. My grand children deserve that dream and I will not see them denied.

    As for your problem with companies and getting profit. This to me is a communist way of thinking I have little regard for. They perform a service, they deserve a profit. The system is not perfect, but then no system is. Wrapping a tourniquet around someone’s neck may stop the bleeding but it defeats the purpose. Reform is necessary but not at the expense of our nation.

    And remember, when you say drop the middle man, you are talking about small business people. Most small business people are middle men/women. You idea will cause tens of thousands of people and business to disappear instantly.

    To your second posting, you are talking about changing policy for 300 million people. One does not hap hazardously go mucking about in the lives of people without careful consideration of the consequences. Especially when we are talking about a government mandate to purchase something with financial consequences and jail time attached to it.

  698. Donna you are instigating. You are turning this into something that it is not. You tell me how I respectfully requests = HAD to be answered. Please stop trying to turn this into a conflict where there is none.

  699. When it is yadda, yadda, yadda and everyone reaches for their snooze button, it must be Noah.

  700. for a country that yabs on and on about being independent thinkers and do-ers and patting ourselves on the back for being inventive, ready to tackle frontiers and all, we sure are a bunch of stick-in-the-mud let’s-do-it-the-way-we-always-have-whether-it-works-anymore-or-not type folks.

  701. corn- we have changed the kind of nation we are over and over in just the short 6 decades of my life.
    some for the better, some not.
    the extension and contraction of individual, state, and national liberties and responsibilities is a dynamic thing
    much is made of the debt we have, and rightly so, but not enough is made of the shift in notions that contributed to it and a real vetting of ideas which haven’t panned out is not likely to happen because everyone has too much vested in their perfect-world-American Dream scenario to do so.
    the American dream scenario where everyone has equal opportunity to pursue their personal goals has been DOA for 3 decades and yet we just keep going on about it.
    i’m way more worried about for-profit insurance companies having way too much to do with health care access and decisions than i am about debt at this point.
    i’d like to see us dump ACA in favor of a single payer system and provide job training and re-entry services for all in the for-profit insurance industry myself. most of this economic hullaballoo about cost is a protectionist device for keeping us from dropping the middleman of the insurance companies-
    corporate welfare, anyone ?

  702. that certainly got garbled by my messed up keyboard. My point is that this is not anyone’s blog but the hosts and it’s certainly presumptuous for anyone to expect that his posts should warrant a response. If someone wants to engage, they certainly will. If they don’t, it says nothing about the merit of the post they choose to disregard.

  703. See, this is why I believe(d) that Corn was yet another Noah iteration. The insistence that whatever points he raised HAD to be answered. As though this were his blog and people could decide that they wanted to post what they wanted and engaged as they wished. So Corn, whether or not this is yet another of the many heads of the hydra, in my experience people really don’t like having strangers demand that their observations be answered–particularly not when that then turns into accusations that someone can’t respond. I certainly hope that will not be your next volley. Can you accept that maybe people just aren’t here to debate you?

  704. I respectfully would like the question I posed responded to.

    I have read my response to you 6 times and I cannot figure out what part you are referring to that sacrificing kids would make sense so I am not sure how to respond.

    What I do know is that if this bill is allowed to continue, the American dream dies with it. We change the kind of nation we are, and what we could be, with this bill.

  705. Corn, does your argument require the sacrifice of the very human lives of son and grandkids?

  706. Mageen. The government doesnt have unlimited funds. The fact we are over 15 trillion in debt proves this out. This part of the bill Obama failed to mention more than doubles our current debt, and that is just this new oversight, we still have the rest of the bill to pay for. And it is not alleged, they found it an announced it. Am I to assume that no matter how much this bill costs you are for it?

    I am starting to get the impression you people believe there are no consequences for being in debt and that we can spend as much as we want with no ill effect. Are you really willing to put everything we have into having insurance (lets not forget what we have empowered the government to do and what freedoms we loose by doing this)? What will we do when we are in debt over our heads, and our nations infrastructures finally start to fail? Or another big disaster strikes. Or one of these new emerging nuclear powers decide to play their hand?

    I would like for you to help me understand how you think we can afford this? I dont want to hear how you think we cannot afford to do this, that is another topic. The cost on this bill is staggering, many times more than any other bill passed in history. With massive debt and a very fragile economy and high unemployment, I would surely like to understand how taking on this additional spending in your mind makes sense.

  707. Gee whiz, Corn. The health care program was been gradually ticking into implementation for about two years now. Even the ridiculously greedy health insurance our son has is getting in line with it and actually paying for what the contract states. And he is one of these people who has a pre-existing condition. It took all kinds of searching to find something almost affordable to begin with only to have to fight with them to pony up per contract. They finally did when the President signed the health care reform law. We have grandkids with pre-existing conditions as well. Prior to the law, we had to fight like mad to make sure the health insurance company that took them on (at a HIGH rate) honored their contract. Found out at that point that the insurance company, despite the name, was not located in-state but in California! That meant layer after layer to fight through. That has also straightened out since the new health care law. Corn, if we had unlimited funds in pocket we would gladly spend them on our own health care but we aren’t plutocrats. As for the alleged extra funding, I am sure that will be found. The lives of our son and grandkids, you know what I mean?

  708. Senate Republican staffers continue to look though the 2010 health care reform law to see what’s in it, and their latest discovery is a massive $17 trillion funding gap.

    “The more we learn about the bill, the more we learn it is even more unaffordable than was suspected,” said Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions, the Republicans’ budget chief in the Senate.

    “The bill has to be removed from the books because we don’t have the money,” he said.

    The hidden shortfall between new spending and new taxes was revealed just after Supreme Court justices grilled the law’s supporters about its compliance with the Constitution’s limits on government activity. If the court doesn’t strike down the law, it will force taxpayers to find another $17 trillion to pay for the increased spending.

    Knowing this…do you all think we need to keep this bill considering the consequences if we do?

  709. Bravo, alaskapi!

  710. (and I’m not just angling for some smoked venison sausage either…)

  711. let’s see- I’d like to seeing us enact living wage laws, a single payer insurance system, abolish capital punishment, build a strong fence between churches foodling in government, end socialism for corporations, and any number of things which put me left-left.
    I like some of UAW’s comments and want to pinch his face off for any number of the rest of them , but bottom line, I like UAW, would rely on him in an emergency and am happy he hangs out here with all of us.

  712. I think my progressive credentials are pretty darn good–and I happen to like UAW’s posts.

  713. Crypto: I know what this blog is about. I have been enjoying for longer than you have appeared to post here.

    You have proven my point: you insist on speaking for other people when you have no basis to do so. You don’t have a clue what the “overwhelming majority that reads this blog” thinks. You, at most, can say what you believe the actual posts indicate. But even that shows an incredible amount of hubris. Is there a reason you are unwilling to simply express your own opinions but insist on claiming to articulate what others believe? It certainly appears to reflect a lack of confidence in your own views and a need to try to bolster them by attributing them to others.

    Again, UAW can be a crotchety SOB and is sometimes offensive. But he is a long term poster and if you don’t care for him, fine. My point was that you have zero business purporting to express anyone else’s opinion. Is there a reason you are so relentlessly unpleasant? Seriously?

  714. Hey Evelyn. Read what this blog is about. Some people don’t seem to get it. And the overwhelming majority that reads this blog concurs with M&H. Most don’t post now because of the incorrect and unverified junk trolls seem to love to post and dominate the comments with little reseaech skill

  715. Crypto: I typically don’t read what you post–you are just nasty. However, I take exception to you claiming to speak for other people. So, for you to claim “ignorance is bliss” while purporting to speak for anyone other than yourself is beyond ironic.

  716. Somehow my post came through as “anonymous”. ??????

  717. Evelyn too bad. don’t read what I post. That poster can defend itself. Ignorance is bliss. And showing it on this great progressive blog proves it.

  718. Crypto: Please do not make statements such as yours above. You do not speak for other people. I happen to very much enjoy UAW, even when I disagree with him.

  719. If you are referring to the Gayle above from a few days ago, nope not me. Noah I couldnt find above, but I am not a Noah.

    I am however someone who things you left wingers are weak and pathetic. This women, a lawyer, can afford her own contraceptives. These able bodied kids in college, they can work and get their own contraceptives. We have a lot bigger fish to fry than this pathetic issue of yet another entitlement.
    We have failing roads and bridges, we have serious inner city school issues, we have disabled and elderly that need the help a whole lot more than these young kids who can fend for themselves. They are in the prime of their lives. If we teach them now that they cant live without government help, how will they ever learn to be productive adults?

  720. it appears that the “I’m out of here” was simply the signal that Noah/Gayle would return as Noah/Corn. sigh.

  721. The Congressional Budget Office has revealed that the true cost of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, also known as ObamaCare, will reach $1.76 trillion dollars over ten years, not the $940 billion promised by the Obama administration.This staggering 87% increase in cost is for a program that is certain to damage the American economy and, quite simply, hurt people.

    According to a House Ways and Means report, the AARP stands to make an estimated $1 billion – perhaps much more – over ten years if the president’s healthcare plan remains in place. This is surely an incentive for the AARP to support the plan, even though it could hurt seniors and Baby Boomers. This has many older Americans, including AARP members, perplexed. How could an agency that claims to be the voice of American seniors actively support a program that will harm many of them?

  722. Rather interesting. Despite all the “imagined outrage” seems you people out here on the way outer fringes of the left got it wrong again, Rush was virtually unscathed. Guess the truth won out. Even the Washington Post agrees.


  723. Todd Palin is not important at all.
    MsTripp has been playing games for quite awhile now and that is all it is- games, innuendo, and foolishness.
    Arizona Senate voted down the bad bill but partly as a strategy to leave it open for reconsideration to bring it back up.


    THAT is important.

  724. So how can anyone keep defending Obama when The House defeated ANOTHER President Obama’s budget 414-0? This guy is too left wing for anyone.

  725. crypto. This doesnt tell me anything. It shows a lot of people used the info and forwarded it on their own. When it was produced doesnt matter as long as it falls within the timeline of the Obama Presidency, and it does. What was your point?

  726. went to that Shailly Tripp website……talk about a sick woman…..
    and I thought JJ had a fixation on the Palin’s……
    and loves to cook ??????? bread/ketchup ????? sandwich ?????? PB&J ?????
    even Helen uses bacon……and pots,pans,roasters….and pie pans…..

  727. UAW you can be as ignorant and repulsive as you want. You weren’t being replied to. no one cares what is fine with you or not.
    this is not a rebuttal. this is not a debate. if it was then try *thinking facts. urban legends are great for those that have no research skills.


  728. yes crypto…and what did you find….
    I found no matches…….doesn’t mean true or false……..if corn wants to believe the story fine with me……don’t try to use Snopes as a rebuttal because they didn’t prove anything….

  729. I think someone has a fixation on Todd Palin
    Tell me again why he is so important………
    He’s about as important as our hoodie wearing ex-mi-gov (Jennifer)……

    how about Obama’s budget that was turned down 414-0

    tomatoes and peppers are starting to sprout….onions are coming……..soon I can do the work that illegal aliens do……

  730. Corn please check it out on SNOPES. oh and also acquire research skills, some critical analysis skills. that ignorant article is factually wrong and has been modified several times. Nor is it recent.

  731. http://www.whowillwinthe2012election.com/college-economics-professor-flunks-entire-class-for-sympathetic-socialistic-views/

    First two paragraphs are opinion, ignore it. The rest is pure factual gold.

  732. Land sakes! Saw in the WaPo this AM that Rushie thinks the worst is over for him and that the really big name sponsors are still supporting him and that only two stations dropped his show and they were piddly little operations anyway. Do you think we will ever live long enough to enjoy the day when Rushie learns how to spell D E N I A L? His behavior is sooooooo like that of an addict. Seriously, who would want to advertise their precious product on a show starring an addict?

  733. UAW; A 45 year old with a pre-existing condition has been turned down for coverage quite often. The same can be said of the 3 year old with expensive a medical condition. So, if we go back to the old way – the 45 year old will be turned down again and Romney will deny him insurance because you do not have insurance. (Even though he tried but was denied or could not afford super high premiums.)

    Todd probably was involved. You need to keep up with the information in AK, my friend. There is information which many want to ignore but it will come out in time.


  734. and say it like Romney said…..

    “”Well, if they’re 45 years old, and they show up, and they say, I want insurance, because I’ve got a heart disease, it’s like, `Hey guys, we can’t play the game like that. You’ve got to get insurance when you’re well, and if you get ill, then you’re going to be covered,’” Romney replied. “

  735. Todd Palin info update….

    Todd Palin, husband of Sarah Palin, is not involved in a prostitution ring with Shailey Tripp: cops


  736. Mitt Romney on pre-existing conditions —- sorry, ‘we don’t play the game like that’ to the 45 year old with a heart condition who was denied insurance in the past. The next Republican Presidential candidate speaks.


  737. Todd Palin info update:


  738. Cheny’s heart….
    Pelosi’s Botox injections….
    whats the diff….


  739. Cheney got his heart paid for by us taxpayers, this family is now wondering who will help them pay for their daughter’s needed heart transplant. The reality of life for many. Health Care, or lack of, is about people but sadly, the focus is more about the poor insurance companies.


  740. re: Cheney -

    My oldest son asked how the got the Darth Vader mask off to give him anesthesia. LOL.

  741. I get what you said Bev, and you should be ashamed of yourself, that does not speak to our President’s character, but it sure tells me more than I care to know about you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  742. Cheney was the one person who DID need a new heart. Good for him. Too bad for the many affected by his decisions that it happened so late in his life.

    As they say, “better late than never.”

    I hope it comes filled with compassion. :smile:

  743. Dick Cheney is a public figure, thus fair game. You just don’t get it do you?

  744. Crypto: Interesting – You and I just paid a million dollars for Dick Cheney to get a new haart. He is a multi millionaire, maybe Billionaire, but who gets stuck with the tab of the heart? You and I. Poor Folk will be stuck on the road, if you have a name and connections – you will be covered and the middle class will be stuck with the bill.

    There is a huge waiting list for heart transplants. My guess is that Dick Cheney was at the top of the list and the poor folks needing a heart got moved on down the transplant line.

  745. satire?????????
    outrageous statement????????
    Like “slut” or “prostitute”…………
    civility goes both ways………
    and so does “BULLSHIT”

  746. JJ: how about US???? WE are paying for the uninsured. I say to those who do not want to get insurance: if you become ill or have a major accident, we will no longer pay for your hospital bills and related expenses. we’ll just leave you on the road.

  747. Amazing really: The Supreme Court Justices were not as curious with Citizens United or Gore V Bush but suddenly the Right Wing Judges want to know if passing this decision will lead to people being forced to eat broccoli. Right Wing Activist Judges at work for the good of Corporations, Insurance companies and the 1 %.

    Again: The people with pre-existing conditions and costly medical procedures will be dropped by insurance companies if the Supreme Court Justices drop the ACA.

  748. HEALTH INSURANCE and the Affordable Care Act: It affects people, like this baby with large medical bills. The Insurance Company would drop her fast without the APA!


  749. UAW, when you hear a statement that outrageous, it is called satire.

  750. LOL LOL UAW… that was a copy and paste of Helen’s tweet.. that wasn’t me talking, that was your hostess.


  751. JJ the Crooks and Liars’ article, just makes me think, the most important vote we cast this November will be our choice of who to send to the House of Representatives. Naturally, because they are the front-line on the budget, but also because “shit happens,” and your Congressperson is the-go-to person to bring it to the attention of the proper agencies. This certainly is not a job for someone, who doesn’t even believe in the power of government.


    What cutting the budget to balance the budget would look like. Quite the eye opener.


  753. Please grace us with a post soon Helen, we would all benefit from a good belly laugh.

  754. The Paul Ryan and Republican budget proposal or more TAX BREAKS FOR MILLIONAIRES paid for by the poor and middle class cuts to needed programs. The Ryan budget also adds TWO TRILLION TO OUR DEFICIT!


  755. no Lori….you don’t…your a good example……….
    or are you now for death panels???????

  756. Do I see another post in our near future Helen? Sure hope so.

    Helen Philpot‏@HelenPhilpotReply

    Don’t you have to have a heart to get a heart transplant?

  757. Big Oil has made a trillion in profits in 10 years. It is past time to take away their 4 Billion dollar subsidies. That money could be used in so many useful ways.


  758. And we are expected to donate money to read uaw’s ramblings? You’re kidding right?

  759. ROTFLMAO….
    Rush is in good form today…..
    Media Matters is like “jock itch”

  760. can you imagine the outrage if the KKK offered a bounty on a black man…..


    so where are Jesse and Al…..


  761. PFesser….
    if your talking about the National Defense Resources Preparedness exectutive order it’s been around since around 1950……..it gets updated every now and then……it was amended twice by Bush…….not saying it wouldn’t be easy to slip something in…..


  762. alaskapi…..
    I’ll pass on the seaweed soup………stone soup sounds tastier……..
    make a loop in the end of the piano wire and snare the fish (I doubt if its legal)……
    smoked 400# of venison sausage 3 weeks ago……..I know….a little late for XMAS……
    waiting for wind to switch so we can smoke the 270# of old milk cow/broken leg sausage……
    won’t be any singing going on but might be a beer or two imbibed…..

  763. farsight….
    just saying that after reading some of the posts here(not singling you out) that every now and then someone has to say BULLSHIT……aren’t people called trolls for trying to incite a response from others on this blog…..how about the phrase…..GOOGLE SANTORIUM….or……OL’FROTHY…..makes you proud to be a liberal doesn’t it……civility works both ways……..and so does uncivility(not sure if that’s a word)……….
    back to trolling….GO NEWT/2012

  764. Well, it would appear that our Boy Bo has authorized himself to declare martial law. This on top of the PATRIOT Act, the suspension of habeas corpus and negation of posse comitatus pretty much puts the cap on it, doesn’t it?

    It’s always done the same way throughout history: put the country in a state of perpetual war and take away the People’s freedoms under the guise of “protecting” them and “national security.” All it takes is an ignorant, asleep population and boy do we have that…

    Welcome to Amerika, comrade.

  765. UAW-
    We sang “Granny’s in the cellar. Lordy, can’t ya smell her?” too.
    Pond scum soup is seaweed soup and while there are supposedly some good recipes out there we were learning wild edibles and it was just seaweed and water cooked in our lil backpack mess kits… salty, boring , but filling.
    Wish I’d known about piano wire. Fish would have been good :-)
    All of it was pretty fun.
    Even the singing Kumbaya part.

    Even with all the latest political BS, life has been pretty good.
    Sure wish I felt like it will be for my lil grands. Sometimes I want to wear a bag over my head and tell them I have no idea who has been making such a mess of things.

  766. UAW, no need to get frustrated just because we don’t communicate well, you and I. I’m still not exactly sure what you were getting at above, but if your response is the bird, I’ll consider the source and smile on. I thought your post was cryptic and if you can’t explain it I’m OK with that.

    Hmmm… I was complaining about troll behavior on this blog. I don’t see any democratic trolls here. What’s your point?

    There is blame on the fringe of both sides. But if you say they rise to the same degree, I believe I would have to call that a false equivalency. Also, Jim will call out the fools on the left but he has way more to work with on the right. Also, back to the topic at hand, I don’t think that Helen was right because their will be way more than six more weeks of stupidity regardless of what the ground pig saw.

  767. “Now you’re quoting my quote farsight Δ.” Just checking to see if it was one and the same.

  768. alaskapi…
    I can honestly say that I’ve never sung Kumbaya…..
    do you have the recipe for pond scum soup……
    piano wire works better than string……
    LMAO…have to say that bad lipreading Newt was the best…….

  769. DUH?????Farsight…….
    Maybe your rants need to get challenged once in a while…….
    I might not be very good at the “rebuttals”…..I sometimes fall back on 40+ years of being an industrial rodent(shop-rat)………sometimes a middle digit conveys more info than a paragraph…….
    and sometimes I still can’t understand why “you” complain about Republicans that are doing the same exact thing as Democrats………

  770. Familiar?

    Now you’re quoting my quote farsight Δ. I left Jim a reminder that Tex followed me over there soon after we discovered his blog last year. He said he’d remember me at Christmas for that, and I hoped he’d forgiven me. Apparently he had, and made a whole post dedicated to him.

    Similarly, the hydra was made a post here by our host Helen.

    Have we deviated much from the main topic? :grin:

    Here’s a very trollish return to it…

  771. “farsight……if you got rid of the trolls you wouldn’t have anything to talk about” >>You know I was kinda starting to think the same thing<< "…….but then you could all sing Kum-BY-Ya…….." Even when the troll(s) have/has been absent, I haven't seen anything resembling Kum-By-Ya singing here really.

  772. These bad lip reading sound bites make a whole lot more sense than their usual worthless dreck . And yes UAW, you can find one for President Obama as well:

  773. “and Farsight….that’s why some people get called trolls…..” UAW, exactly what are you trying to say here? I don’t see the “why” in your quote/example. Please spell it out for me so that I don’t misinterpret your meaning.

  774. I haven’t sung Kumbaya since I was 12 years old in camp. It was sensiblle then as we had survived making pond-scum soup , trying to fish with string, and slept on beds of pokey, scratchy tree boughs.

  775. I think I like that Jim Wright….
    a quote from above article….

    “Because far too many of us allow this kind of nonsense to go unchallenged. Far too many allow the Rush Limbaughs and the Glenn Becks and the Oprahs and the Yahoo commenters to go unchallenged. We allow the Louis Farrakhans and the Reverend Wrights and the Billy Grahams and the Bill Donohues to go on without rebuttal. ”

    and Farsight….that’s why some people get called trolls…..

  776. farsight……if you got rid of the trolls you wouldn’t have anything to talk about…….but then you could all sing Kum-BY-Ya……..

  777. sounds like the only winners from Arizona House Bill 2625 would be the lawyers…..

  778. Arizona House Bill 2625 like so many of its ilk is headed to the courts as soon as it is turned loose on the public. Frankly, I think that is why this type of legislation is written. There are two sides to getting such stuff shot down in the courts: the backers can gin up their martyrdom meter to yet another stratospheric level and use it politically and the other side, the resistance, can chalk up another win. I think I get a whiff of gamesmanship here.

    As for being a woman in a company in charge of determining the “purity” of the women working for the company, that becomes another litigous situation right off the bat. And the courts have overcrowded dockets already which means that all such cases presented leave everything up in the air and the enforcement of such rabid regs goes into suspension, if the enforcers have any sense of self-defense at all. Now, remember, “any sense.” Just sayin’…

  779. “I do so hate to assume, but have to go there every now and then.” Familiar?

  780. Farsiight

    Jim Wright has already dispatched one of the loons to the trash bin. I think it was the odious Tex, more than a year ago.

  781. Pfesser, if you take the time to check out Stonekettle Station, read the commenting rules. http://www.stonekettle.com/p/commenting-rules.html There is a link to the long version, which is very interesting and the link within the long version to the “troll issue”. I would love to see our Hydra go try to pull some crap on Jim’s blog. He would find out how truly vulnerable he is and maybe even realize, in the process, that posting to blogs has nothing to do with free speech. Actually, I don’t believe he would do it because he is basically gutless. The reason he stayed around here was due to the good graces of Helen and Matthew’s hands off approach. To the Hydra, that is low hanging fruit.

    In my opinion, the Hydra is one of the loons that Jim is writing about. I would place no one else, NO ONE ELSE, on this blog in that category.

    Dead horse in the middle of the road, dead horse in the middle of the road, there’s a dead horse in the middle of the road and he’s stinkin’ to high heaven. Been beating on this one overly long. Nuff said…

  782. Pfesser, you were asking about this earlier and I thought I would take a chance to post a portion of a Stonekettle Station post, “Why I Talk to Loons”, by Jim Wright. I also provide a link to the full article below. This guy is great. He was a Chief Warrant officer and kicks some serious but on issues of the day!!! Hope this all posts.

    “Arizona House Bill 2625, passed by the state House two weeks ago and endorsed by the state Senate Judiciary Committee last Monday and advanced to the full Senate today would require that any woman who wants the cost of her birth control pills covered by insurance (any insurance, not just that provided by religious organizations, and not to mention insurance that she herself must pay for) must submit a claim to her employer providing evidence that it’s not for contraception. Now, if that wasn’t bad enough, the law would allow an employer to fire a woman for taking birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. This in order to, and stick with me here, protect the religious freedom of the employer. The woman’s religious freedom shall be protected only so long as it agrees with the religious doctrine of the crazy religious loons in the Arizona state government. This bill is different from other similar legislation at both the state and federal levels in two ways, 1) it specifically differentiates between birth control used for contraception and that used for medical reasons, and 2) it requires a woman to disclose that reason to her employer – not doctor, not insurer, her employer. I want you to take a minute here and think about that, think about a woman being required to discuss in detail her reproductive medical decisions with her boss – including her intentions to have, or not have children. Remember, her boss can then use that conversation to fire her. No. Stop reading for a minute and think about that in detail, think about all the vindictive small-minded pointy-haired religious freaks you’ve ever worked for. Think about a woman having to discuss her period with a boss like, oh, let’s just say Rush Limbaugh, or her sex life with Bill Clinton, or the results of her last OBG/YN exam with Newt Gingrich. Think about it.

    No, really think about it.

    Now, flip the coin and think about being that boss. Of having to screen the women under your authority, even if you don’t want to, because otherwise you could be fired for not enforcing company policy with regards to her reproductive system. Bad enough if you’re a man, but what if you’re a woman? If you’re the boss, and a woman, wouldn’t you always be under suspicion for any medical procedure you approved for other women? Would your company ever really trust you to make unbiased decisions when it comes to enforcing their reproductive health policies?

    But, of course, nothing like that would happen where you work, right? No chance of, say, your company being bought out by a Christian investor? How about an Arab?”


  783. Once again, the hydra retreats to its lair. The “mission accomplished” denotes it was indeed commissioned to be here. As to the purpose of that mission, we can only surmise that it was to disrupt and promote discord among the porch community. Now it bids us all farewell. Again. For now. Peace.

  784. OT -

    Ladies and gentlemen: We are well and truly intercoursed.


  785. Well tried twice today to respond and it seems I can only post a line or two. Not worth the effort all things considered so moving on. Enjoy your sandbox ladies, mission accomplished.

  786. There is nothing I can say that could surpass some of the divine comments above so I’ll restrict myself two short notes. 1: I’m now really glad I live in Canada. 2: Even if it really is only six more weeks that’s still too long.

  787. “Why do you always battle around for full participation of others the majority don’t like and you disagree with and who ultimately, as with Noah, blame you for all the bad things which they bring down on themselves?

    I dunno. Just stoopid, I guess.”

    Actually, there is a better name for it. It’s called maturity.

  788. My last comment was in regards to Pfesser.

  789. The standard for such things is almost always subjective, regardless of what someone may say. Additionally, what I say here carries little weight, but I will still express my opinion or concern.

    Most reasonable people would consider the “bitchy” quote trollish behavior (IMO) and especially in light of the post that Cynthia had just previously made. We have seen this and much worse behavior repeatedly in the past. Gayle is new and due to the way he/she has started I’m not feeling charitable. My perogative!

    I would expect an occasional rant or pissed off reply. However, in the end, it won’t be my decision to make any kind of axing. I am sure that Matthew’s tools put him in a position to know if Gayle is the Hydra. He will decide when any limits have been reached.

  790. :-) whole lotta agreeing going on here…

    Gotta say that it’s just fine to merely disagree, without any agreement to do so, farsight Δ

    As re:”Gayle”- I don’t really care at a lot of levels whether it is Noah- because if it is there will be a signature meltdown and truth will out.
    Lack of response to being accused of being Noah is merely lack of response – nothing else, except maybe some cricket chirping stuff…

    Nothing in Gayle’s comments ,at this point, rises to the level Matthew ,as blog administrator, established as criteria for possible banning:

    “I should also let you know that I don’t monitor the comments very often, but when I notice that someone is commenting over and over in a manner that seems to be solely to disrupt the conversation or someone is just being mean, I have been known to give them a few warnings and then ban them outright.”


    However I would think all of us getting a warning for disrupting the conversation and looking mean might be a possibility ;-)

    Dear Pi-
    Why do you always battle around for full participation of others the majority don’t like and you disagree with and who ultimately, as with Noah, blame you for all the bad things which they bring down on themselves?

    I dunno. Just stoopid, I guess.

  791. Well, I don’t change hearts, only the Holy Spirit can do that. Yanno, harden the heart of pharaoh, soften the heart of Nebuchadnezzar… I just try to enlighten. Shining a light…

    I know full well the old adage, “You can lead a horse to water…” :wink:

  792. Yeah I know Poolman, Aries always think their words are that great! LOL LOL It dosen’t surprise me you think you can change a heart.

    We must agree to disagree.

  793. Lori,

    Yes, our economy is picking up. The area I live in has plenty of wealthy folks from all over the world that live here part-time. That has brought these investors buying up the low-priced real estate and does trickle nicely down to pool builders, even if sometimes delayed.

    I have some very nice projects lined up and am really in a good position having weathered this financial storm. Thank God! In all estimations I may be too busy to visit these blogs in a couple months.

    I am torn, but there is a season for everything. This has been a very enlightening endeavor and I have made many friends. I have also streamlined my lifestyle, which desperately needed to happen. A reassessment of priorities is always good when approached earnestly. I move forward with added perspective.

    As to your “change of heart” comment, I must disagree. True, many will stick to their guns, no matter how wrong-headed. But I still hold out hope for the few that DO actually have an interest in growing and learning and renewing themselves. That is my prayer for many I have encountered. It is also a daily prayer for myself. The worse thing we can do is stagnate.

    I hope everyone has a blessed day!

  794. Indulge me a moment as I play Devil’s advocate:

    So is the understanding that, just because Gayle is SUSPECTED to be somebody we already know, he/she will not – just because of that – be allowed the same occasional rant or pissed-off response as everybody else, and then forgiven? It seems like pretty high bar – and a bit of a double-standard, doesn’t it?

  795. Lori,

    You be hittin’ da nail on da head. I don’t believe the foundation of the person (In this case the Hydra) will change. Trust would probably never be on the table.

    Question: If I am correct in my suspicions, will all pretense of civility be removed due to frustration, or will an occasional zinger or momentary lapse of control be enough to satisfy his twisted needs?

  796. Alaskapi,

    Gayle was accused of being Noah etc. several times but never rebutted it, and I thought there was a post she made that confirmed the link indirectly. I could not find that post by looking back through the comments section.

    I admit that I have been very suspicious from the time she first showed up. I just think Gayle is very tightly controlled and only here on Matthew’s sober approval. When looking back at previous Gayle posts, I see a tight control that wanes at time. That could just be my suspicious mind at work.

    I guess we’ll see how Gayle plays this. It will probably make a difference in the degree to which we disagree. For the time being, I don’t think I can get much past agreeing to disagree. :-)

  797. true dat FarΔ .. with one exception … do people really change their spots? If they appeared here early on with malice and distain, can we really trust them, ever? I donno… I am of the belief, hearts seldom change no matter the screen name. But at any rate…. that is just my opinion…on we go…

    On a more up-beat note did anyone read the new polling on Obama vs Mittens in the purple states? Good news is risin. ;-)

    And Poolman, the economical dawn is breaking. Maybe not for you, in your neck of the woods, but where I relocated to- it is booming. Jobs galore..

    We are where we are by the choices we make in life.

    Who said: Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex… It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction? AE?

  798. Part 2

    When I first started coming back to this forum a few months ago, Noah/Anonymous/etc. seemed to be in his heyday and there was very little actual posting of true opposite opinions as civil discourse. I encouraged people to just ignore the troll but that was not to be. Once Matthew reigned that trollish behavior in, the discourse has been much more civil. The sound to noise ratio has improved dramatically!!!

    If Gayle continues in the same vein as his/her “Gayle” persona started, all will be fine, but if a couple of the more recent posts,>>> and I quote, “I am not sure why you are going so far out of your way to be bitchy Cynthia but lets set aside your short comings.”<<<, are any indication where he/she is headed, then banning for good is in order (IMO).

    It is my belief that pointing out possible recidivism early on may keep the behavior from again spiraling out of control. Hope springs eternal…

  799. Wish I could actually have a short period to go back and edit a post. The second comment immediately above was not included with my first comment. It somehow got stripped. Then my statement saying where to insert the verbiage of the second comment got stripped. Maybe Matthew can clean it up.

    I will try again with the whole thing.

    Part 1


    You do realize that Noah/Gayle/Hydra/(old)Anonymous are the same person, right? And, with about a 99.85999% chance that this is true, I stand by my comments. I believe it is very possible that he just cleaned it up a bit as Gayle and may now be starting to show his old self.

    I actually even think James presented (except for very early on) his side of issues in an acceptable manner, although I rarely, if ever, agreed with him. UAW brings plenty to the party, most of which I disagree with, but he usually presents in a palatable manner except for when he goes off on one of his really rude, crass sprees (I firmly believe from statements that he has made that these usually happen in conjunction with an elevated intake of alcohol <<just had to get that in there<<).

  800. farsight Δ –
    I’m saying, at this point, I disagree that “Gayle” is Noah/ Anon/ad infinitum.
    There’s more of a “Tex” tone to Gayle but even there there is a multitude of differences.
    It doesn’t seem sensible to just assume this is Noah/et al showing up again and starting to fall off the wagon at this point.
    I miss James- even his pigheadness.

  801. ).

    When I first started coming back to this forum a few months ago, Noah/Anonymous/etc. seemed to be in his heyday and there was very little actual posting of true opposite opinions as civil discourse. I encouraged people to just ignore the troll but that was not to be. Once Matthew reigned that trollish behavior in, the discourse has been much more civil. The sound to noise ratio has improved dramatically!!!

    If Gayle continues in the same vein as his/her “Gayle” persona started, all will be fine, but if a couple of the more recent posts,>>>

  802. Alaskapi,

    You do realize that Noah/Gayle/Hydra/(old)Anonymous are the same person, right? And, with about a 99.85999% chance that this is true, I stand by my comments. I believe it is very possible that he just cleaned it up a bit as Gayle and may now be starting to show his old self.

    I actually even think James presented (except for very early on) his side of issues in an acceptable manner, although I rarely, if ever, agreed with him. UAW brings plenty to the party, most of which I disagree with, but he usually presents in a palatable manner except for when he goes off on one of his really rude, crass sprees (I firmly believe from statements that he has made that these usually happen in conjunction with an elevated intake of alcohol <<just had to get that in there<>> and I quote, “I am not sure why you are going so far out of your way to be bitchy Cynthia but lets set aside your short comings.”<<<, are any indication where he/she is headed, then banning for good is in order (IMO).

    It is my belief that pointing out possible recidivism early on may keep the behavior from again spiraling out of control. Hope springs eternal…

  803. Many of the same arguments about government getting out of our way are valid turned toward big business.

    Very true, alaskapi. Business is amoral. I’ve often heard the excuse, “Nothing personal, it’s just business.” Well, that is generally an excuse to justify an immoral or unjust decision. A way of shirking conscience or scapegoating responsibility.

    Business as usual is what put us in the jumbo crapper we’re all in.

  804. And Gayle-
    Explain how the free market self correcting as in housing boom/bust implosion is superior to anything.
    A measured balance between competing concerns, as free a market as possible to offer opportunity with constraints to rein in big gamers, did a pretty decent job for us all before the repeal of portions of the Glass Stegall Act allowed all that market freedom to blow up in our faces.
    The market is not us, it is a system. Human systems get out of control of the humans who devise them without constant attention. Many of the same arguments about government getting out of our way are valid turned toward big business.

  805. Well- I disagree with you farsight Δ.
    As we are surrounded by people-neighbors, family, and friends- who share some or all of the views the so-called hydra espouses and we have to live and vote and all that alongside folks who disagree with us I think busting the BS is as important as calling it out as BS. Because all BS is not the same.
    There is a distinct difference between the Noah personality and the Gayle and so on so I’m not sure rounding em all up and calling em all part of the same is sensible.

    UAW- I read Ms Fluke’s testimony and I talked round some here to women about contraceptive costs since I’m rather past that .
    It is important to me to note that costs vary widely, depending on the specific woman and her health issues and specific prescriptions so I don’t think the cost thing is all that important. Just as some folks do fine on generic drugs to treat other health issues and some do not, I don’t think it is wise to get bean counters in as the final arbiters of what should be prescribed to anyone.
    Ms Fluke was quite clear about being there as an activist to testify about issues with extending religious exemptions to businesses attached to churches as regards contraceptive services which is what the Blunt amendment was all about.
    Whether Ms Fluke’s examples of students who are required to pay for insurance as part of their tuition yet are denied contraceptive services floats your boat or not, it is an argument which has merit across a much broader spectrum of insurance provided by employers/school administrations/ etc. as regards benefits denied for religious liberties of the employer/administration.
    Mr Limbaugh muddied the waters enormously with his nasty outburst.
    In the weeks since this, Arizona has been moving an amendment to its insurance law exempting ANY employer from providing contraceptive coverageto employees based on moral exceptions in the employer’s mind per religious liberties.
    For all who love to go on about men being the culprits of all this throwback legislation, please note the AZ proposed law was written by and pushed by a woman.
    We need to remember women can be as stoopid as men.

  806. I figured everyone could use a little apropos scripture to start their Friday morning. Thus, the above…

    Even as an agnostic, I believe there is value to be found in The Bible.



  807. Sorry for the disgusting visual. However, unless you have a super hyper-overactive imagination, I don’t think you can visualize anything from my remarks that becomes as disgusting as the hydra once he is activated.

  808. In our fool’s case, the fool’s folly is far less appetizing than dog vomit once tripped into a higher gear!!!

  809. so a fool repeats his folly.

  810. As a dog returneth to his vomit…

  811. Noah/Gayle’s period of courtesy was short-lived and has concluded.

  812. I am not sure why you are going so far out of your way to be bitchy Cynthia but lets set aside your short comings.
    You said:
    “I don’t think insurance companies should be making my medical decisions,”

    So the government plan lets you make all your own decisions? Or is it like the insurance where they get to decide?
    You said:
    “banks deciding how much they can charge you to use your own money”

    Banks are a business. They are not a public service. Why do you feel they need to be government regulated and mandated what they are allowed to charge? You sound to me like you are a proponent of how China runs their show. Where the government dictates to the market how they run.

    At least you recognize that government will take advantage of people.

    To your article I will just grab the top line:
    “Here’s yet another form of hidden bailout the federal government doles out to our big banks, without the public having much of a clue.”

    Sounds like a big government problem to me.

    So again I ask, why do you feel the government is MORE qualified where they have no incentive to do it right while private sector has competitors that help(not perfectly but better than government) keep the market honest.

  813. The orchestra has started, I hear the same old refrain!

  814. I’m sorry Gayle; I thought the article I posted made my point/answer. Did you read it?

    I don’t think insurance companies should be making my medical decisions, oil companies deciding what messes they’ll clean up, banks deciding how much they can charge you to use your own money etc, etc, etc. The private sector is about making more and more money for them. The government does not have to show a profit…..it would be nice if they did.

    Both the government and the private sector will take advantage of the people. It’s just that I chose who I get scr*wed by. It’s a “chick” thingy, you know?

    We each can have our own opinions.


  815. Where we messed up was becoming dependent on the government for our day to day needs. Were we messed up is when we stopped teaching and believing in personal responsibility.

    To answer your previous question Cynthia, as you chose, rather than to respond, to answer a question with a question, yes the private sector can do it better. The private sector is set up as such that if a business fails to operate properly, they go out of business. Government has the advantage that they can keep getting it wrong, even on purpose, and still have more tax dollars to spend anyway they see fit. There are no performance objectives they have to meet. To prove this last point, no matter how bad a job Obama does, no matter how many laws to take away our personal freedoms, you will still vote for him. As would Republicans vote for their candidate. These guys can mess up all they want, and they will still be in power. So no I do not think the government should be in charge of my health care or much else for that matter. Why do you think they should? What have they done better than the private sector that justifies your belief?

  816. Pfesser – That’s what I thought! They have sold their souls for a buck!

    Now an Arizona lawmaker is saying “women should be required to watch an abortion before they receive the procedure.” IMO, it won’t be long before this will be put this into anti-abortion laws.

    Teaching “abstinence only” sex education and limiting access to birth control will only increase the number of unplanned pregnancies. Taking away the “safetynets” and making women jump through hoops to have an abortion will only force more of them to the “back street” abortions again.

    IMO we were born into the beginning of a great time in America. We help bring about some fantastic improvements and created a very civilized society. But unfortunately we will be leaving at the end of that time. Where did we f**k up while we were here?


  817. “But why are the docs not yelling and screaming about this. Standing up to stop it before it can be put into a bill?”

    Cynthia – If you will indulge me a bit of profanity, I will tell you.

    Because they are pussies. They are pencil-necked, back-stabbing pussies who have become used to high incomes and those are being threatened right now and that is all they are thinking about. They don’t give a good god-damn about principle, and I mean that sincerely. (Tell ‘em how you *really* feel, Jim!)

    The best time of my life was when I quit medicine, thoroughly disgusted, and spent eight years playing with my children, building an airplane, visiting my family and old friends and pursuing a degree in engineering. It was at that time I discovered how much I hated dealing with physicians as a group and made myself the promise that if I ever went back it would be out of necessity and that I would never again ever go into business with another one. Engineers may be boring, but they are straight shooters and are MEN. (Even the women, LOL)

  818. Pfesser – Good point, I will assume you are correct. But why are the docs not yelling and screaming about this. Standing up to stop it before it can be put into a bill? I haven’t read anything about that. All you need are those Santorum-wantabes who know they can not be sued.

  819. I don’t watch much TV and missed this until this morning. I thought it was worth sharing, no matter whose “side” you’re on. He does mention what supposedly happens during a “brokered” convention.

  820. You are asking the questions PFesser, but we don’t have the answers for you. A new political Party? “hell, the people running that place are proof of evolution – and that evolution doesn’t always run in a forward direction.” lol

  821. Cynthia -

    I wouldn’t worry too much about that; the State Board of Medicine would take his license. Failing that, he would be completely ostracised by his colleagues and within two weeks everyone in the community would know and his business would go to zero. He would be selling pencils.

    What the hell is going on in this country anyway? Kansas. Feh. That’s where they are still arguing about evolution; hell, the people running that place are proof of evolution – and that evolution doesn’t always run in a forward direction.

    The ReBiblicans have GOT to divorce themselves from the RR and the Fetus People.

  822. For those of us that were talking about a contested convention the other day. Here is something for us to chew on.


  823. “But now politicians in Kansas are giving pregnant women and their partners something new to worry about. Buried in a sweeping anti-abortion bill is a provision that would immunize a doctor who discovers that a baby will be born with a devastating condition and deliberately withholds that information from his patient.”


    Try google there is more information there. I remember reading one that the mother’s health could be withheld from her also, if the bill passes.

  824. NOP – I actually did follow the link and it just seemed to me to be a bunch of rambling. What the hell are they talking about? Why would your MD lie to you about your tests? Just some kind of disjointed straw man argument about some figment of somebody’s imagination was all I saw. Nothing to it at all. If your doc doesn’t want to do abortions, he’ll just send you to someone else. If he doesn’t want to do birth control, he’ll just send you out. I don’t get it.

  825. “Do you trust your government to act in your best interest on your behalf?”

    Do you trust the private sector to act in your best interest?

    “The biggest names on Wall Street are lining up to become landlords to cash-strapped Americans by bidding on pools of foreclosed properties being sold by Fannie Mae…

    While the current approach of selling homes one-by-one has its own high costs and is sometimes inefficient, selling properties in bulk to large investors could require Fannie Mae to sell at a big discount, leading to larger initial costs.”


    Other interesting articles at RollingStone.

    80 degrees in upstate NY in March!


  826. PFesser, I think if you go to his link, his statement will make more sense to you.

  827. Brisco -

    I must be exceedingly dense; I work in the medical field and I cannot for the life of me figure out what you are saying. Would you distill it down to specific accusations? Thanks.

  828. Gayle, thanks for the Paul Harvey. Now we all have the rest of the story.

    Maybe Helen will bless us with another witty post soon.
    Hint. Hint. Hint.
    I hope everyone has a great day!

  829. .. my advice to you is faith not fear.. educate yourself, look forward, join the 2012′s , and be brave.. all is gonna be ok.

  830. Richard L Brisco
    Interesting perspective. I have some questions for you
    1) Does the government do it better than the private sector?
    2) Do you trust your government to act in your best interest on your behalf?
    3) Do you think that the government knows what you need better than you do, thus qualifying them to make the choice for you?
    4) What freedoms do you think we as Americans should decide to give up so the government can better run our lives?

    I ask this because I look at our government and how it has mismanaged trillions of our tax dollars. I look at a history of approval ratings often times in the under 30% level. I look at all the infighting and ask myself, is this really working. I look at big government and career politicians. Allowing themselves to do things that would land us, the average person, in prison for a great many years( example insider trading.) Do we really want to have ourselves indebted and dependent to this group of, for a lack of a better phrase, corrupt, self serving politicians? IT scares me to death to think of what we have already lost and what we are being forced to be dependent upon just in the past few years, I would really like to understand how you feel safe turning over your fate to a group such as this.

  831. And the right-wing opposes this as a “government takeover of health care.” But when they want to endow your doctor with the ability to dictate their values in the form of dishonesty – health care (specifically women’s) needs to be taken over by government. Stat!

    As a culture, would we tolerate this if it were any other medical condition besides pregnancy? What if your doctor was being paid by the soft drink industry to tell you your obesity isn’t from your 5-liter a day habit? What if your doctor didn’t approve of vaccinations and you actually get Meningitis? What if your doctor thought it wasn’t right to tell you about your cancer screening results while in its operable window? And what if some yahoo state lawmakers decided – against all ethics and medical research – to agree with your quack doctor?

    If those things seem outrageous then lying to pregnant women has to be too. If we want to live in a society where women have the same rights as men, being of child-bearing ability can’t be a caveat to equality.


  832. Listen to the prophetic words of Paul Harvey from 1965. Remembering back in 1965 none of this was hardly a twinkle in anyone’s eye. Amazing, This gave me chills listening to it.

  833. last part is the best

  834. Unbelievable, so this is how dysfunctional the Republican Party has become, http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/st-charles-county-republicans-embarrassed-by-caucus-shutdown/article_d295a24e-a949-5c94-82e3-63951ca223b1.html

  835. Interesting look at Obama and the Latino vote. But the more interesting, between the numbers story, IMHO, is the future of the GOP if they continue to under preform with this demographic. They will HAVE to move towards the center on issues that are important to the Latino community if they want tonot only win elections but survive as a party.


  836. Pfesser
    Haven’t thought of Escher in many years. Thanks for keeping him in mind.
    Like you, I grabbed off a few ratings simply for the experience and ended up holding C-ASMEL-I plus AGI. But this was all long before glass cockpits and GPS. It’s been more than 35 years since I took the controls of anything and without a BFR, physical or current hours I wouldn’t know where to start anymore. But the interest never goes away.
    However, the way things are tending security-wise I’d suspect that it’s only a matter of time before recreational flying is a thing of the past or will be restricted to smaller and smaller boxes. I’m not sure what that will mean for the industry some years down the road because I don’t know where the pilots will come from. Of course, drones might well be the future.

  837. PFesser, once again I find myself agreeing with you. In the past many people with opposing opinions have contributed here without incident, but the many faces of Noah was ugly business and I don’t think any of us want a repeat. And I have already told “Gayle,” I like this version of him better than any of the previous personas. It is kind of like the “Three Faces of Eve,” one is bound to prefer one personality over the others. But keep in mind, that is only my first impression, “she” if she reverts to Noah….

  838. NOP -

    Something occurred to me. Does it really matter if Gayle is someone we already know? (I have no opinion on whether that is true or not, but if not it seems un porch-like to not be cordial to a new poster.)

    What if someone decided that the old way of doing business wasn’t working and decided to have a clean start, complete with a new persona; would that be OK?

  839. jsri -

    “New Avatar I see. Why not a skull and crossbones?
    BTW, how’s the Commercial ticket coming along and what do you think you’ll do with it?”

    Good to see you again. I hadn’t thought of the Jolly Roger as an avatar; that’s a pretty good idea! That picture is M.C. Escher’s father; I’m sure it’s copyrighted or something…I’m an Escher fan.

    Commercial rating is stalled (heh-heh) right now; I am getting pounded at work – no time to fly, doing 7-day weeks for long stretches; I keep M&H open on my desk for an occasional break. Pretty sad, huh?

    I’m doing the Commercial rating just to improve proficiency, nothing else. I DID fly into DC a couple of weeks ago. Wow. Sure raises your pucker factor. Those ol’ boys ain’t fooling around. They will give you ONE warning – flashing red and green lasers controlled by radar. If you see them, it means YOU, and you better turn 180 degrees right now. They will still send someone to talk to you wherever you land. The idea of course, is to discourage all those pesky “little planes” from flying in the People’s Airspace. Kind of ironic, isn’t it?

  840. The Democrats didn’t decide whether or not to change history when picking the President. We picked from the two most qualified people on the planet, and most of us felt that one was a bit better than the other, and history was made.

  841. Thanks Lori, I’ll check Helen out on twitter.

  842. Love Helen’s tweets!

    Helen Philpot‏@HelenPhilpot

    It’s amazing to me how often the religious right gets it wrong

    Keep it up Helen… I’m proud of you!

    Come on M&H supporters.. RT her! LOL LOL

  843. Pfesser
    New Avatar I see. Why not a skull and crossbones?
    BTW, how’s the Commercial ticket coming along and what do you think you’ll do with it?

  844. testing
    These new log-in rules are a puzzlement.

  845. In case you missed it…

    last week’s Doonesbury.

    PEACE ~ Δ

  846. NOP,

    In the lead-up to Nov. 2008, I had over several years (about 7) become increasingly more involved with politics. I went from being left centrist to very left. Not revolutionary or batshit crazy left just very left. I had by about 2005 become obsessed to the point of almost almost all free time spent on the internet reading about politics, Bills, court decisions and of course some blogs with M&H being my favorite. After things turned out the way they did in 2008, I relaxed some. I quit reading political stories, read Helen infrequently and quit reading the comment section entirely. It was mental health therapy that was long overdue. I continued to listen to progressive talk radio but with a considerably less investment of time. Recently, I have started reading and paying closer attention to politics once again.

    I would have preferred a less centrist Obama, but until Elizabeth Warren becomes president in 2016 or 2020 I will be happy with him for the next 4 years, and I do believe he is an exceptional man/president. I believe that had a concerted attempt at a public option been attempted, it would have been obtained! That is my biggest beef with him.

    It is really nice seeing some of the ole regulars here, and now that the hydra seems to be somewhat tamed, I am enjoying the comments section. The hydra’s almost total one dimensional (as you would put it) domination of the comments section was appalling and boring at the same time. It is most certainly a joy that the comments are so much more civil and sane now!

  847. It is on another blog farsight. Sure good to see back here, I hope a lot of the gang show up for election 2012.

  848. NOP, what is “The BIn” you write of? Also, Mathew must have really played hardball with the hydra as he seems to be reluctant to do what comes naturally. Less one dimensional and maybe even civil.

  849. Well Gayle, I wouldn’t invite you to a slumber party with the rest of the chicks here, but I find your new persona less one dimensional than your previous ones.

  850. No One:s Puppet
    I really have no interest in this thing you do on this website with people you do not like. Find someone else to taunt. Thanks.

  851. one mo’ time

  852. again

  853. test avatar

  854. Hi Gayle, Poolman stopped by The Bin today, you’ll have ask him about it sometime.

  855. delurkergurl lets try again.
    First sweet cakes was not a derogatory term directed at anyone. Note By: sweet cakes on March 17, 2012 at 6:39 AM. As you can see this is a persons chat handle to who I was responding too.
    You said:
    “Gayle, how about criticizing policy instead of criticizing the people here?”
    As with other manipulations of my words, this is just not the case. I was making general points directed at no one individual.

  856. hmm seems my last post didnt post.

  857. Remember those grocery store tabloids by the checkouts with their astonishing headlines, like Woman Gives Birth to Alien Baby, Alligator Removed From Man’s Rectum; folks the very same type of sensationalism is available today online. And isn’t always the same acquaintances and family members that email you these things? Geez Louise folks, surely you are sophisticated enough to dismiss these tales.

  858. and another post……(what this order is NOT)


  859. lori….
    I didn’t know that whitehouse .gov was MSM……
    I just said that MSM (FOX,ABC,NBC,MSNBC,CNN,CBS,ETC) haven’t said anything………
    I’m finding that might be because it’s not newsworthy……
    “National Defense Resources Preparedness” executive order: Power grab or mere update?


    what got my attention originally was a statement (looking for it again) that the gov would be able to confiscate food and farm machinery and control their movement……..

  860. uaw here is a site that gives you all of the executive orders issued (I highlighted 2012) you can decide for yourself if the MSM is/not reporting something correctly. No one has to rely on MSM ..It’s allllll right here. ;-)


  861. oops…above was me….

  862. wondering why MSM hasn’t mentioned anything………not even FOX…..

    Obama Executive Order: Peacetime Martial Law!


    President Obama signs Executive Order allowing for control over all US resources

    Continue reading on Examiner.com President Obama signs Executive Order allowing for control over all US resources – National Finance Examiner | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/president-obama-signs-executive-order-allowing-for-control-over-all-us-resources#ixzz1pTjD1RoA


  863. Interesting discussion! Someone mentioned Europe and proportional representation. How about the way they campaign? It is terrificly short and sweet, about six weeks and its all over and they can relax and breathe again. Can’t wait for the current carnival season to end in this country. I long ago reached my gag level. Of course, in its own way the primary campaigns are a distraction from many things but that is indeed a mixed blessing.

  864. Gayle, I called you by your name. I’m not sure how that’s worse than calling someone sweet cakes but I’m sure you’re very right.

    Lori – go white!

    Cynthia, one way to get money out of politics would be to acknowledge that corporations aren’t people. If they were, Rick Perry could execute them!

  865. :
    : ;)
    “On the Sixth Day, God created the penis…

    PEACE ~ Δ

  866. I agree Cynthia, unless we have campaign reform, nothing would change, in fact it would be worse.

    We have had several attempts in recent history to form a 3rd party, they have failed, mainly because of money, or lack there of.

    Happy St Paddy’s day to you to!

    My brackets are still intact! I even picked Norfolk State! Now I need WI to lose.LOL LOL Big money here I come… and Go Green!

  867. lori – I found the article. I have nothing against having more than two parties in the house and senate. It is just who and how the president gets elected. Also IMO the candidate must pass IQ and a$$h*le test.

    I also think if we got the money out of it process, the lobbyists, the back room deals, the lack of discussion, held politicians responsible for making deals with corporations etc. and allowing them to later go for work with those they made deals with etc., an honest responsible press/media, get the “Grover Norquists” etc out of the game we might be able to level the playing field between two parties….well in my perfect world.

    BTW – Happy St. Patrick’s Day to those with Irish roots and those who are Irish for the day!!!


  868. Yes Cynthia, under our current system of winner take all, that would be possible. Most of Europe uses employs the proportional representation method. That would be where everyone receives the portion of the vote they receive. So if a candidate receives 5 percent of the vote, he/she has 5 percent representation in Parliment.

  869. Seems rather obvious to me, but I will elaborate. Right now we have the “good ol boys club” 3 party system makes it possible for both of them to lose.

  870. cynthia, huffpo ran an article about the two party system about a year ago.. Did you see it? If not I’ll try and look it up for u.

  871. “The only thing that will cause anything resembling bipartisanship is a three party system.”

    but then would it be possible that just 34% of the people would elect a president. No???


  872. How do you figure that No One’s Puppet?

  873. How about that, Gayle is a rich “chick.”

  874. Sad place we find ourselves in today.

  875. The problem hasn’t been high corporate taxes, as those have been greatly reduced in the past few decades. The problem has been off-shoring is still cheaper and business can still compete in our marketplace, with greater margins of profit and with less liability. That is how GE, among others, was able to pay zero US taxes and yet profit billions.

    The problem with politics is who is actually controlling the votes. The teams are a diversionary tactic, backed by the same sponsors. These elected officials are generally acting for some lobby as opposed to acting on our behalf. The last decade SHOULD wake everyone up to that fact. The marketplace has invaded the womb. It shapes us to its purpose and discards what isn’t profitable.

  876. delurkergurl
    Unlike yourself, I did not mention anyone specifically. I was talking in general. Nothing for you to be disappointed in other than the obvious truth I presented.

    As for bipartisanship, that is a mythical thing that rarely sees the light of day. The only thing that will cause anything resembling bipartisanship is a three party system.

  877. I found this interesting…
    “On April 1, Japan will cut its corporate tax rate to 36.8 percent from 39.5 percent. This means the United States will officially have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, with average combined federal and state profit levies of 39.2 percent.

    As Japanese politicians found themselves staring down an increasingly burdensome deficit and an aging population, they came up with an idea: Cut the corporate profits tax to boost economic activity and generate higher revenues.

    Japan‘s neighbors in Asia convinced Tokyo to act by luring investment from what used to be the world’s second-largest economy and is now the third, after the U.S. and China. Korea has cut its top corporate rate to 22 percent, Taiwan to 17 percent and Thailand is moving to 20 percent over the next two years. Hong Kong and Singapore have led the way with longstanding rates of 16.5 percent and 17 percent, respectively.” As reported by –The Wall Street Journal

    Wonder what they have figured out that we havnt?

  878. Gayle, how about criticizing policy instead of criticizing the people here? You don’t seem to be conversing in the friendly manner you say we’re lacking. Sweetcakes? Sheep? Really? I’m disappointed.

    As to your question about “party loyalty” – one factor is that there seems to be no such thing as bipartisanship (any more?). This means getting things done requires at least a majority, and now a super majority seems to be the new standard. People who support something when their own party is in power suddenly become opposed to the very same thing when the other party is in power. “Before it before you were against it.” Until the parties are willing to work together for the benefit of the country, voting for people in the party that systematically opposes you isn’t going to work.

  879. LOL LOL Realllllly? Pi? I didn’t know that about you! Well I’llllll b… learn somepin new everyday around here. ;-)

  880. Poolman,

    My point being that NOP had posted the same link previously vice you. Paradoctor, you nailed it!

  881. If Hillary Clinton had been elected President, then the Republicans would have done misogyny first, and saved racism for later.

  882. LOL, Gayle.
    You are welcome to think whatever you want about whether those loyal to a party vote straight ticket or act like sheep. You are even welcome to define “sheep” as you want to.
    Doesn’t mean that’s what anyone does.
    I regularly vote every which way except in primaries as the Rs demanded a “closed” primary system. Closed is in quotes because anyone except a D is allowed to vote an R ballot..
    Often I leave a spot blank when everyone running stinks.
    The Ds of the last 30+ years have gotten lost here in ANSCA and oil politics but continue to try, sometimes without even knowing why anymore :-), to fight institutionalized racism, big business running the state, and things which matter most to me. I am quite happy to hang out on the fringe and keep working to get some things changed which independant Ns and Us
    ( we are very careful here about when and how we call ourselves “independants” because of the AIP dealie) cannot do from their unaffiliated status.
    I understand it is very different away from here but here in Alaska the bulk of voters are registered as N (non-partisan) and U (undeclared) and both categories outnumber Ds and Rs. We have a tidy number of AIP members
    ( secede-from-the-union group) and registered Libertarians as well.
    Our State Senate has long had a bi-partisan working group majority though the State House tends to split along R majority and D minority lines.
    The shift towards centrism in the D party , starting before but including both Clintons through to our current centrist President, ticks me off as I think centrism is hooey. It is however better than neoliberal neo-con gobbeldygook as far as how it shakes out for everyday people.
    Both parties pandered to the shrinking middle class for too long , with little to no thought about that shrinking-ness and the outfall of policies which ignored causes.
    I’m not loyal to that horsepunky and do talk about it in mixed company, lori :-)

  883. Good to know, NOP, whatever that means. Yes farsight Δ, I have watched the video. I like the POTUS and he is my second choice in the election, as I have said several times (and places). If he is up against Romney or Santorum, he will likely have my vote.

    But I am not too keen on imperialism or big government or propaganda. I don’t think it is our place to police this world. Now with the fake KONY propaganda campaign, MANipulating™ our kids in pushing us to police the continent of Africa, of course, under the guise of spreading freedom and democracy. They don’t want us there, and a showing of the KONY 2012 propaganda film caused massive anger and outrage in Uganda.

    When we quit being shaped from birth and allowed to learn sans propaganda, we are much healthier and better equipped to deal with real life. Everywhere we turn we are being marketed to. Time to get back to real and unbiased education, if it isn’t too late. Only one candidate so far has addressed that issue.

  884. sweet cakes
    I think you have been watching to much of the msm. This isnt a war on women or health care. It is a battle if private insurance should pay for contraceptives. Fluke didnt do herself any favors misrepresenting herself and the facts. We already have massive channels where women have access ,for free, all the contraceptives they could ever need. I was rather wild child in my teen years, 1 parent household and a mother who worked 60 hours a week. Between PP, the clinic, and Every Womens Place I was wanting for nothing in the area of contraceptives.

    Considering her connections to the Obama admin, I think this was a political ploy to distract us from other issues. Funny how in election year these things “suddenly” come up. Just smoke and mirrors.

  885. I am curious why anyone would feel any loyalty to a political party. I can understand having issues you agree with more from one side or another but loyalty to a party? I take it most of the people loyal to a “party” are straight ticket voters who I like to think of as sheep. I myself vote for who I think will do the best job. Reagan for 2 years(most accomplished President of my lifetime) Bush senior was a waste of 4 years and didn’t get my vote. Voted for Clinton(Great policies, not so good a person)GW Bush, voted for him first term, not second term. Voted Obama first term, will not be voting him in second term. Everything else aside, we just cannot afford him.

  886. Poolman, your secret is safe with me.

  887. Proposal to counter the Republican attack against women’s health care – get the word out to your state congresswomen and senators – push for a bill that requires all males over the age of 12 to have their DNA in a database – after all they are half the genetic material needed to create a baby – and since the men do not want women to have birth control, and everyone is suppose to be 100% re…responsible for their own actions and offspring (no government support or handouts at all according to republicans) – it only makes sense that every single male should be in a database so they can be tracked down and their wages garnished to support their offspring – and if they can’t – then it’s off to a workhouse of some sort to work for below minimum wage (the rest of their compensation is in the form of room and board) and what little salary they get will go to any children they fathered. The wealthy will love this idea – it provides cheap labor (they can also be used in work groups (with chains of course so they don’t escape) to work in the fields – thus doing the work that no one else wants to do (and eliminating the jobs that are now filled by illegal immigrants). Inmates (with tracking anklets of course) who have good behavior could even become house help for the uber rich. Sounds like something the Republicans should really go for … right ??? After all personal liberty is meaningless when compared to the rights of a sperm and an egg which are much more important – so what’s a little DNA in a database if it means that every single sperm will now be protected and have a “loving” father ?

  888. I don’t think you have convience NOP. She has been working her tail off for weeks now for Obama -Holding house parties, collecting signatures, opening her neighborhood headquarters! She is Alllll in. ;-) Fired up and ready to go!

    But you are right FarΔ , we liberals are like herding cats. We get mad at our party and stomp our feet, yell at the TV, and bitch to our spouses. But as long as we come home and stay together we will be awight’! Loyality to your friends and your party is a good thing.. LOL I know personally, like PI, there are many things I disagree with my party about. You just will never hear me say them in mixed company.. LOL LOL

    Enjoy your weekend all.


  889. Pardon please… That should have been NOP not Poolman. I knew it didn’t feel right when I typed it in.

  890. Yes Poolman, and again:

    It’s 17 minutes you need to spare. The opposition has been effective at focusing on all the negatives; take time to listen to the positives. Also, remember that progressives are like herding cats and many progressives hold their own to standards that are hard to achieve and especially hard, if not impossible, in the current political climate!

  891. Very true, alaskapi. I do plenty of label reading anymore. Take nothing for granted. Some days I’d like nothing more than to take industry to task, shut down the machine, and get back to nature. It’s been taking quite a beat down from our capitalistic me first tendencies.

    Beck’s been for Beck for as long as I can tell. He still has his following and brings in a decent income I’m sure. He does tend to simplify and has contributed to the dumbing down of the public, a very successful campaign it is too, I might add.

  892. Doesn’t much matter whether Gayle is a sincere face, poolman.
    What matters is the tendency of Beck and many others to oversimplify and run with the oneliner.
    My Representative to Congress made news last fall that he was one step closer to banning frankenfish- genetically modified salmon.
    He sponsored legislation which prevented the FDA from using any funds to complete the certification process.
    Nothing was done to address valid concerns that the FDA , by lodging certification as regards genetic modification of animals in veterinary medicine, was ignoring equal and competing concerns elsewhere in Fish and Wildlife and so on.
    My Rep did nothing to actually ban frankenfish . He just blocked the certification process.
    When we buy the oversimplification we are setting ourselves up for some rude awakenings – at the least.

  893. Is Gayle the sincere face of this hydra? Time will tell. Anyway it is a new day and life is an ongoing series of choices. Truth be told, I have difficulty taking Glenn Beck seriously on any issue, although he has presented truth on occasion. Unfortunately he wears the clown suit too well and I’m not into drama so much.

    Industry runs this place (US of A) and everyone has to give up a little moral ground to participate. It is very tough to motivate the masses to stand up against any oppression if it means their “lifeblood” is threatened. It seems to be easier for those outside the system to criticize and judge our character.

    Funny, Cheney decided against the Canada visit. It must be uncomfortable to live life constantly worried about what’s behind you. I prefer to travel light.

  894. Here’s a better description of the child labor rules too.


  895. Gayle-
    I don’t much care whether people identify themselves as within or without a political party or any of the rest of it. I’m quite happily a registered Democrat who is pretty much in opposition to most of my party’s ideas.
    The notion that this constitutional professor is set on dismantling the constitution is quite silly but you are welcome to think whatever you want.

    Mr Beck has a habit of oversimplifying and hyerbole.
    This is a considerably more thoughtful look at one of the sets of rules he’s got his britches in a bunch over.


  896. alaskapi
    I dont necessarily agree or disagree but I will say a constitutional profession who has intentions of dismantling said constitution to me makes a far more dangerous foe.

    Now I post this link with the understanding that Glen is the anti-Christ to most everyone here. That said I understand those will not being themselves to listen to it but rather call into questions certain things about me. Those people aside, I think this is a rather shocking look into a law this administration has passed on our farming communities. Having lived in such a community all my life this resonates with me.


    And since it was more than hinted at, unqualified, I am not a republican or democrat, conservative or liberal. I am a raging anti-government independent. Business isnt for us, they are for themselves. Government isnt for us, they are for their continuation of power and self interest.

  897. PFesser- given we are a nation of laws, not men, a Constitutional law professer is rather more valuable than many business types in my book.
    Maybe when big business accepts that it/they have been afforded protections and exemptions beyond all good sense I’ll reconsider .
    The idea that productivity in dollars is the best measure of the value of a person to themselves and society has numerous shaky underpinnings not the least of which is that it is totally humanocentric and we live in a wider world than that.
    The notion that competition strengthens all things runs deep in our society . We made it up though. We shouldn’t forget that. We made that notion up.
    And we’ve run wild with it to the point we sneer at folks who work colloboratively and call people who are content with a basic decent job and all losers and lazy and all that crap.
    I submit that we need all of us- the competitive and the colloborative, the adrenaline junkie high flyer and the pedestrian slogger through.
    Over valuing a couple of attributes and the outcome of the lucky players doesn’t really get us anything but the mess we’re in right now. We need to be different . There’s too much to do

  898. And I think, anyone who puts down any type of employment is an elitist. I did not say Romney is an elitist, I said, you were, and you have just proved my point.

  899. “How very ELITIST of you pfesser! Only millionaires have held real jobs? Especially one who bankrupted companies and sent the jobs overseas.

    Not at all. Ross Perot built a multibillion-dollar company, but started out as a paperboy. Does that make him an elitist, or is he just successful? Romney started out with money but made a hell of a lot more. Does that make him elitist, or someone who understands how business really works?

    Obama’s been a “community organizer.” What the hell is that? Also a “constitutional law professor” – basically bathing 24/7 in highly refined academia. I’ve done both – real work and University work. Believe me, the elitists are at the University, not the real world of high-powered productivity. The universities are sheltered workshops for the unproductive, where they take in socialism with their mothers’ milk.

  900. I think another big difference between RP and Obama, is RP doesn’t take his marching orders from the UN or NATO. He honors and upholds the constitution. I remember during the last campaign, our president said his first priority was to shut down GITMO, reverse the Patriot Act, and get us home from these wars. Wellllllll. I think things went a whole ‘nother direction.

  901. I was looking for a pie chart. We all like pie here, so I thought it would be apropos, but alas, the data is compiled, but I can’t find 4th quarter in pie form. So here it is in bar graphs. It isn’t even close.


  902. How very ELITIST of you pfesser! Only millionaires have held real jobs? Especially one who bankrupted companies and sent the jobs overseas.

  903. @ NOP… not yet at least! LOL LOL

  904. might be a thin dime for you Pf .. not for me and my daughters.

  905. You’re right NOP… of course he won’t.. it is silly…

    but I am ready to declare.. it’s Mittens/ Rubio… LOL LOL

    or not.. ;-) lmao

  906. “One of the dime’s worth of difference between Obama and Mitten is the Obama isn’t waging a war on women.”

    That’s one way of looking at it. Another difference might be that one has actually held a real job and knows how money is made; the other has not, and thinks money comes from taking it from people who earned it.

    So, it’s a pretty thin dime, but a dime nonetheless…

  907. Lori @12:23 PM. And Obama doesn’t tie his dog to the roof of the car!

  908. Any discussion about a Ron Paul Presidency is ridiculous, he won’t be the Republican nominee. At this point, I am not making any predictions about who will be, but it won’t be Paul, that is for sure.

  909. One of the dime’s worth of difference between Obama and Mitten is the Obama isn’t waging a war on women.

  910. oh and btw poolman.. housewifes do count as an occupation.. check it out. ;-)

  911. This should make for a lively discussion: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-dunn/sarah-palin-2012_b_1351763.html

  912. now Poolman I WILL give you percentage wise??? Probably yes.. but that is only because RP has no backers and the margins are so small.

  913. exactly NOP…

    lets help Poolman out here…

    FIRST… the GOP by a margin of 2-1 has the MORE individual military contributions. Hands down, every election, the Reps bring it home .. No surprise there… although Obama had a pretty good showing last time around with $500,000? or so…

    (this is from a fuzzy memory… but I think I’m pretty close)

    Poolman … your guy doesn’t have a lock on the military… google Mc cain contributions.. google Mitten’s… helll google Newt’s… I’m just gonna take a wild guess and say 1/3 of their individual contributions comes from military/gov workers. Gov PAC’S and bundles.

    Sorry bud… wrong again.

  914. NOP – don’t get me wrong; I voted for BO and will likely do it again, but only as a distant second choice. I think the two parties are taking us down the poop-chute as fast as we can go, whether it is personal freedoms or financially, and I don’t see a dime’s worth of difference between BO and Romney. Ol’ Frothy is another story, of course.

  915. Lori, you can peruse the open secrets site and compile your information from industry, individual, etc. I think the relevant expression is “six ways to Sunday”. LOL. Ron Paul is the overwhelming choice for those serving in harm’s way. And he has been all along.

    As for housewife’s donations, I would think the industry that provides the household income is what is counted. Just my guess. Go to the link and put in your own parameters, if you wish. I don’t think it is a partisan site.

  916. How does grouping a bunch of small contributors make them top contributors? Do you know what the phrase “comparing apples to oranges” means?
    Pfesser, if you watch the video, you can actually do your own review.

  917. Interesting review of Obama’s campaign “documentary.”


    The theme is to remind you of how bad things WERE so you don’t think about how bad things ARE.

    Good plan.

  918. Mayb to make a fiar comparison you should include Mitten’s and the President’s INDIVIDUAL: contributors too? Who knows mayb one or two might actually work for the US ARMY? I donno… but its just my guess

    seems fair to me?

  919. Ohhhhhhhhh I c… so sorry poolman I was confuzzled…

    But wait… you’re not tryin to trick me are ya???? LOL cause hmmmmmm under Obama.. I don’t see any INDIVIDUAL doners listed… ????

    Cause there seems to be some INDIVIDUAL catagories missing.. MODEL?HOUSEWIFE being one of them ..I wanna know how much theyyyyyyy donate, cause I’m thinking they are a pretty boss doner tooooo ;-) jusssss sayin

  920. Lori, those are the contributions from individuals that work for those organizations, NOT the institutions or organizations themselves. Military salaries are not that huge, and these are folk’s donating their own bucks. Impressive, eh?

  921. Poolman could you help me understand something please?

    U report the US Army to the tune of $81,423 is Paul’s top contributor. Am I right so far? Could you please explain to me what you believe that means? Does it mean out of the US Amy’s budget, that I fund with my tax payers dollars, the US ARMY contributes to Pauls campaign? Cause dat right der, makes me a mad girl.. ;-)

    II’m so confuzzzled would you please explain that to me?

  922. I agree farΔ!

  923. Cynthia, you absolutely nailed it at 5:05 PM!!!

  924. lori, MY party? LOL. I voted Obama in 2008 and Kerry in 2004. At this point Obama is my second choice. I actually like him quite a bit. However, I don’t claim allegiance to either party. Independent, remember. I won’t vote a straight party ticket, to me that’s a sellout. I know you think this is a competition. Winners and losers. I think we’re rather all on the same team.

    Here’s a listing of the top contributors as compiled to January 31st. I’d say the military is squarely in RP’s court. All the banksters are backing Mitt right now.

    Ron Paul’s top contributors:

    US Army $81,423
    US Air Force $60,739
    US Navy $58,267
    Google Inc $34,191
    Microsoft Corp $24,698
    US Dept of Defense $22,821
    IBM Corp $21,898
    Boeing Co $20,986
    Liberty PAC (Ron Paul) $20,000
    Corriente Advisors $20,000
    Northrop Grumman $17,804
    US Marine Corps $16,490

    Barack Obama’s top contributors:

    Microsoft Corp $194,393
    DLA Piper $164,087
    Google Inc $144,430
    Harvard University $139,566
    University of California $136,253
    Morgan & Morgan $128,145
    Comcast Corp $114,950
    Skadden, Arps et al $107,324
    Sidley Austin LLP $102,015
    Time Warner $100,457
    US Dept of State $94,165
    Debevoise & Plimpton $91,576

    Mitt Romney’s top contributors:

    Goldman Sachs $521,180
    JPMorgan Chase & Co $356,400
    Morgan Stanley $297,550
    Credit Suisse Group $296,160
    Citigroup Inc $280,050
    Bank of America $245,900
    Kirkland & Ellis $225,202
    Barclays $217,150
    HIG Capital $188,500
    PricewaterhouseCoopers $185,550
    Blackstone Group $178,050
    Bain Capital $151,500
    Wells Fargo $148,950


  925. I thought the backbone of conservatism was that you mind your own business and stay out of people’s personal lives. Apparently santorum (Ol’ Frothy) doesn’t ascribe to that philosophy.


    Great! Let’s stick our nib-noses into every facet of the people’s personal lives…

  926. My mistake, I meant to post the new video “The Road We Traveled” from youtube. I will try again.

  927. Do you remember? https://my.barackobama.com/roadtraveledfullvid

  928. Well Poolman, I don’t think Rand Paul will be Mitten’s choice for VP
    either. I think he will keep Ron Paul on the hook though, if he is smart, which he is.

    Another commentor and I had a conversation about this very thing a few days ago. I think Mitten will call on Rubio, the other commentor disagrees with me however. LOL LOL

    I do think Paul will hang in there for platform influence. Not sure any of your Party’s “powers to be” will listen to him. But Paul owes his contributor’s something, although his donor’s have pretty much bailed on him in the last week or so. His strongggggg showing of 5-7 percent doesn’t cut the mustard. He will feel obligated to deliver a little more. His best shot is to go out as a “policy influencer”. Which is fine. Your party needs to move a little left imho! Imagine That!

    Yayyyyy for MIOV’s son.. It has been a long season. Happy for you.

  929. Saw where unemployment stats are down a hair. I think my son contributed to that. He now has a job. Its starting off part-time and took forever to get through the paperwork which apparently is a result of 9/11. Thankful? You bet!!!

  930. I’m so happy racism is a thing of the past. (snark)


  931. lori opined:

    “Sniff sniff…..Need a tissue sweetheart?”

    Grow up, little girl.

  932. There is some truth on Fox. Of course, now with Judge Napolitano gone, it’s harder to find. The MSM flirts with truth while bombarding us with propaganda and major marketing. It’s the independent journalists that still have integrity, and even then, you deal with a bias. The key is understanding the bias, then you can gather perspective, especially if you cross check numerous such sources.

    The comedians do offer plenty of truth. As jesters, they can reveal more without fear of being censored, most of the time anyway. Jon Stewart gets away with plenty of freedom of speech that otherwise “journalists” cannot.

    I think there are 6 people that control all the main media outlets. Rev Moon and Rupert Murdoch being two. Both with extreme interest in controlling the message.

  933. I forgot….go to Jon Stewart for the truth……

  934. wow Poolman…complaining about CNN…..what’s next…..MSNBC………damn….do you have to go to FOX to get the truth???????/

  935. UAW, Newt works for Newt. That’s his first priority. Most politicians are that way, I suppose. Newt doesn’t conceal it very well.

    We’ve had our share of lawyers, lobbyists, and businessmen… It’s time for a physician. This country’s pretty sick right now.

  936. cynthia….
    as I’ve said before….I f#$ked up and voted for Carter and after that I got kicked and stepped on by the union…….tired of sacrificing so some useless piece of shit could keep his job……. just why do you think I complain about people wanting something for nothing………back in the old days before safety harnesses and things you better trust your partner to grab your belt in case you slipped working on something 100+ft in the air……didn’t matter his/her skin color…….you had to trust them………..sure as F%$CK don’t trust Pelosi, or Reid….Obama just kind of hangs out with them…….I agree with about 60% of what Rush says………guess that makes me a conservative…….Newt did work with Clinton ………isn’t that the compromise were both looking for now…….

  937. Oh and if you want to chat about the doc on twitter its #roadtraveled. See you there ;-)

  938. Looks like CNN has latched onto that lie, too. I tell you. The MSM has been continually misinforming the public on his positions and campaign. He has suspected the GOP of election fraud, but has no proof. They run a pretty good ole boy primary network, as I’m sure you are aware. :wink:

    …in the Time.com article, there is ONE line from a “Paul adviser” who said, “If you’re talking about putting Rand on the ticket, of course that would be worth delivering our people to Romney.” I don’t know about you, but I don’t want ANY Paul “adviser” making claims about MY support going to Romney A: without MY consent, or B: while the race is still not over!

    Anyone watching this would have come away thinking it was a done deal and would assume Ron Paul is dropping out of the race. Some of the dedicated Ron Paul supporters may even be convinced to vote Romney in their upcoming primary if they think this is going down. The MSM is already back to ignoring Paul completely. The last thing we need is for them to convince ANY Paul supporter that he has dropped out or is trading our support for trifles.

    Contact CNN and let them know that our support cannot be bought or traded! And, let your friends who haven’t voted yet (or may be waffling on this idea) that Ron Paul has NOT made such a deal, and until the campaign officially says so, he will not make such a deal. Our support is for the cause of Liberty & the Constitution. I highly doubt Ron Paul is willing to give that up for empty promises from Massachusetts Ken!


  939. Poolman google TIME: “If you’re talking about putting Rand on the ticket, of course that would be worth delivering our people to Romney.”

  940. I am sure most of you have already seen this. But JIC, here it is..

    A few of the reasons I will be voting for Barack Obama 2012. Love my President! ;-)

  941. My take is different about the perceived hostility here. Most of the opposing points of view over the past 3 years have come from the same 3-5 people coming in with various names. They often give themselves away with their first comment. They pride themselves on slinging crap and perfecting their straw man arguments. They accuse others of personal attacks when they always pick fights just so they can play the victim. It’s really old.

    I can’t remember the last time a sane conservative appeared here and talked with some sense even if their views were different. My guess is that the rational ones have better things to do or better places to hang out.

    Some actual back and forth would be really cool. It’s boring without that. Instead we keep getting the same Rush or Beck or Hannity listeners who aren’t even fazed when they find they are repeating lies.

    So Gayle, it’s nice to meet you. I truly hope you’re here to say something different than taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for sluts to have sex because that wasn’t the issue.

  942. I think No One:s Puppet that we have clearly determined we are different kinds of people. You and lori have attaked me from the onset and twisted everything I have said, and what I didnt say you made up. Neither of you have any desire to make this a nicer place to have a conversatation so unless you feel some primal need to continue to pick me apart, let us put this issue to bed.

    For a second time, could you show me where I claimed I was a conservative? Since no one asked I am a raging independant voter from a family of generational southern democrats.

    Cynthia, I do not see why a communist could not come onto this webpage and not be treated with some respect, Am I really expected to believe how we will treat another is by their political standing?

    I have to say I never expected such a simple request to meet with so much resistance. Its astonishing.

    Please understand that you can’t trust me. I have posted under several names including Jose, Roger and others. I am the Hydra and I refuse to leave. :grin:

  943. “Another chick walks on in and the others get all territorial.”

    I would agree if this were an actual social setting were the ladies were vying for the attention of the men in the room or a beauty pageant.

    This is a political blog and IMO no one is looking for to be “territorial” towards or “feels threaten” by another women or man joining the site. Pfessor explained this is a liberal leaning blog and a “conservative” needs to realize it can be “territorial” in that sense. Just as a “liberal” would have a problem going to a conservative blog and expecting their opinion be welcomed.

    Join in on the conversation at your own risk as we all do here!


  944. Not many women call themselves and other women “chicks,” Gayle. Anyone every heard a woman or girl use the word “chicks” in reference to themselves or another female?

  945. I don’t know where you’re getting your info lori, but it doesn’t jive with what I’m reading. And it certainly is NOT b&w. That rumor has been around for some time, but both candidates deny it.


    I still think if the GOP would get their heads out of their heinies and bend toward real conservatism they would put Ron Paul against Obama. I still think he is the only one who can beat him on a straight republican democrat ballot. But it seems many conservatives are not really. If it ends up being Obama vs Romney or Santorum, I think Obama would win. But then a lot could happen between now and November and a number of events real or imagined could change the electorate.

  946. Well it’s no surprise to anyone who knows the first thing about politics butttt we have our answer in b&w as to why RP was/is carrying water for Mittens.

    Ron Paul adviser: ‘”Of course’ we’d trade our delegates to Mitt Romney for putting Rand on the ticket”

  947. Maybe this is just female psychology. Put enough of us into a room together and inevitably we get catty with each other. Now that I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Another chick walks on in and the others get all territorial. Sorry if I pissed in your sandbox lori, No One:s Puppet I’m sure you will get over it.

  948. Out of curiosity how was I defined as a conservative? Do conservatives have a monopoly on being civil to one another?

    Appreciate the words pfesser53. I will feel welcome despite lori and No One:s Puppet

  949. LOL LOL PF…

    Let me say this, Gayle, the conservatives here do NOT have a lock on rudeness, as you can see. I got the same kind of welcome from the same poster when I came three years ago. Ignore that kind of stuff – and welcome!

    Sniff sniff…..Need a tissue sweetheart?

  950. ;-) NOP exactly.. and on we go..

    Obama Biden 2012….

  951. NOP -

    Maybe I’m a little naive, but I don’t think that Gayle writes like Noah.

    Who knows…it’s like a giant circle-jerk anyway. It takes about two railroad cars’ worth of effort to shut down the bickering and snot long enough to get a toy wagon’s worth of decent discussion. Why anyone wastes his time on a blog is beyond me. Guess in my case I’m just bored with looking at hundreds of cases of nothing but black-and- white pictures for ten hours at a stretch. Maybe I need a life…

  952. UAW – I would like to offer my apology for my comment; it was out of line.

    I have spent the last couple of days biting my tongue, talking to the screen and deleting my comments but last night hit my tolerance level button.

    I know there were unions that gave up a lot only to still get the short end of the bargain at the end of the day. This IMO is what the Republicans will do to all of us 99%ers if they had control. There are too many things going on that no longer make sense or are logical to my mind BUT what does make sense scares the daylights out of me.

    I have no desire to fight with you and will attempt to practice my own advice including using a clean finger.


  953. Sorry about the +, I meant =, as in Gayle=Noah. It is so obvious, since it is so seldom a new reader is a conservative and isn’t it amazing they always go for how mean we are. I think if they were actually new, they would be more interested in discussing/debating actual content. Social issues are their thing. Right?

  954. Gayle+Noah! Enough said.

  955. lori opined:

    “Well Gayle, I have a hard time understanding why you, after realizing the blog is soooooo awful and intolerant of other’s opinion’s, would remain?

    Let me say this, Gayle, the conservatives here do NOT have a lock on rudeness, as you can see. I got the same kind of welcome from the same poster when I came three years ago. Ignore that kind of stuff – and welcome!

  956. Well lori I guess you proved my point. Most of us in the adult world gave up name calling after our middle school days. Why you and others insist on making things personal is beyond me. We all come from diverse places, backgrounds and ways of thinking. Would be nice if we could all present that without it degenerating into something nasty. Where I come from, it is possible to vehemently disagree with someone and still like them or at the very least treat them with respect. I will give you the final say, be as mean as you need to be.

  957. I love me some Newt! I may just write him in myself. ;-)

  958. UAW… you can always write Newt in! …. I will happily send you the MI rules of wrtie ins if ya need em?

  959. slut….you say that like its a bad thing!!!!!!!

  960. let me explain that better…..2008 I voted for Romney in the MI primary because Newt wasn’t running……it looks like I probably won’t be voting for Newt this Nov. either…….crap

    GO NEWT/2012

  961. Newt? :shock: You’re serious? Talk about a slut…

  962. poolman……
    GO NEWT/2012

  963. Welll Gayle, M&H have and do call out individuals.. Noah being one of them. I’m sure you are familar with that name if you are a current “reader”.

    Two… I really don’t care if you like me, like my politics, want to be my bff, or even read my posts…… scrollll right on by if you don’t like me….. no skin off my ass.

    However if you do care about people not liking what you have to say, or calling you a little name, perhaps, politics isn’t your things. ORRRR you might want to go to a more friendly place? Cause I have got to tell you buttercup, politics aint for the faint of heart.

    If you like the discourse here, by alllll means stay, if not… Oh wellllllllllll it is what it is…. Maytyrdom isn’t appealing …

    suck it up buttercup…

  964. lori
    You are exactly what I am talking about. I love reading what Margaret and Helen write. With but one exception I have not seen them call out any one person on here as you did me.

    My motivations are my own and should not concern you in the least. Please read what I said. I said I like the political discussions and spirited disagreement. What I said I do not like is going after the person saying it as you did me. I asked for people to be nice, and you tell me I should leave. What is it in my request that has made you so hostile to me and would make you say this in the first place?

  965. all insurance is socialistic

    Don’t say that too loud, the righties will have a conniption fit. Remember private enterprise owns insurance companies. Like other brokers, they don’t provide the services or the products they sell, but they profit from both. We are a nation of middlemen, one where everyone gets a cut. Then we wonder why everything costs so much and gets squeezed at both ends.

    UAW, too bad about the pension. I know plenty in the same predicament, many wondering now if they will outlive their savings.

    Who is your candidate of choice right now? I know you voted for McCain last time around. Are you just waiting to see who the GOP nominates to decide for yourself?

  966. pfesser53……
    found something on those jobs….
    Graduating Class of 2010 Career Placement Stats [16]

    Median Starting Salaries

    Private Sector $160,000

    Public Interest $40,000

    Government $62,467


    notice the private sector

  967. and Fluke could have gotten birth control…..

    “Only Yale Law School, Harvard Law School, and Columbia Law School have graduated more Supreme Court Justices than Michigan Law, and Michigan Law has placed more Supreme Court law clerks than any other public law school, with over 50 to date.”


  968. Waving to HRH!!!! How u b????

  969. <3 send your husband our best wishes and good thoughts MIOV..We are rooting for ya.. xo

  970. delurkergurl, my apologies for the tardy response to your kind comment re: husband and cancer treatment. I am now halfway between a pillar and post so I have a moment to thank you for your concern. Its not the first time you have offered a kindness. And we both appreciate it. He is to start radiation as soon as an appointment can be arranged. We all have our fingers crossed.

  971. Well Gayle, I have a hard time understanding why you, after realizing the blog is soooooo awful and intolerant of other’s opinion’s, would remain?

    If you don’t LIKE the political dialogue of this blog.. here’s a thought….. click the big X at the top right hand side of the page?

    It is not like there aren’t a 100000000 other sites out there that might fit your likes better?

    Perhaps you should do the same?

  972. To be clear pfesser53 I do not mind spirited disagreement, just the opposite, I expect it and even enjoy it to an extent. What I find distracting and stressful is when I see comments made for no other reason than to be hurtful to a person. It distracts from the topic and takes the fun out of the place.

  973. For those who care…. yesterday was National Pi day. Sorry if you missed it.


  974. poolman…all insurance is socialistic…..
    my UAW insurance is maintained by the UAW……..through negotiation us retirees “forgave” $37 billion in accumulated debt to the car companys…..most people forget that……..think everything is just handed to us….
    as far as my pension; if your adviser took your account from say $6000,000,000 down to maybe nothing do you think you’d be happy…….the same cancer that ran the pension fund ran the auto companies…….

    most people on here seem to forget that I’m also one of the 99%ers…..one of the overtaxed middle-class that made it possible to bail out the companies and banks………and I’m being taxed enough already….don’t need any more…….

    Cynthia and Farsighed….good thing were not into personal attacks anymore…..

  975. “I find most folks here pretty tolerant”….WTF!!!!!…..
    just my .05

  976. Gayle -

    Your point is well-taken, and if you will indulge me a moment, I have about three years’ experience on this blog.

    I think when one comes in, one has to realize that this is, first and foremost a liberal blog, and in the same way one does not start atheist diatribes in someone else’s home where there are pictures of Jesus all over the wall, a little discretion is a good thing. If you express a conservative viewpoint you will be challenged; this IS A LIBERAL BLOG. Happens to me all the time; I am VERY libertarian, so I piss off the libs and conservatives both.

    I find most folks here pretty tolerant, but if you come in calling people names and insinuating that folks are not very smart, what do you expect? Go poke a hornet’s nest and see where that gets you. Express your disagreement agreeably and my experience is that you will still be challenged, but the personal stuff is much less.

    Just my .05

  977. Ah, Donna – good morning!

    It is a pretty eye-opening thing. I had toyed with going to law school at some point, but my life looks pretty cush after watching my daughter for a while. She’s out of law school about two years now, doing the public defender thing to build experience. I can’t begin to tell you how proud I am of her! Her work hours are just unreal and, now that she has moved up to felonies, the weight of, “If I screw up, somebody could go to jail for the rest of their life” has really sunk in. Couple that with clients who are often their own worst enemies – as well as guilty most of the time – and the stress is beyond what I could endure, that’s for sure.

    Quick note: she had a client go before the court charged with fleeing, wearing a tee shirt that said, “I run from cops.” You just couldn’t make that stuff up. Or the serial rapist who wanted her to plead him innocent on the basis of “sexomnia” – that’s right – he raped people while he was sleepwalking and was thus innocent. God.

  978. Topic aside for the moment. Why is there so much hostility towards people who do not fall into line with the majority mind of this website? I do not understand why everyone is so mean. What is gained by making personal observations about people I am assuming none of you know outside of this page? It would be so much nicer to read people disagreeing about their thoughts and to leave the personal insults aside. I have had a real hard time lately opening this page because of the drama. Can cooler and more civilized heads prevail?

  979. Pfesser: Thumper obviously confuses the starting salary at a very few Wall Street law firms with the “average.” Even putting aside how limited those jobs are, I’m not so sure that billing 3000 hours a year is the sort of luxurious lifestyle that Thump suggests. Those poor drones typically live in shoebox apartments (because of the costs in New York) and do nothing but work–seven days a week. No lives beyond the hope that someday they’ll make partner, which only a tiny fraction ever will.

  980. “PS – Grammar: The difference between knowing your shit and knowing you’re shit.

    May I join you? I love English.

    Punctuation: The difference between, “Eats shoots and leaves” and “Eats, shoots and leaves.” LOL

  981. Thumper -

    Can you send me some information on those $160K lawyer jobs? My daughter is just out of law school, making a little over $60K, with $110K in student loans.

    Thanks in advance.

  982. You all should lay off UAW and his obtuse ways. It is obvious that now that his insurance no longer covers Viagra he is having to pay full price (that is more than the Ins. companies bargain for), he can’t afford to buy as much and as a consequence his brain isn’t getting enough oxygen. I don’t think he buys Viagra to have more sex, I think he buys it for the increased blood supply to his brain.

    He never has been able to concede when he is proven wrong except maybe a couple of very inconsequential matters.

  983. UAW, don’t you have a union established pension and an insurance plan through your previous career from which you retired? I think that is what you had related. I could be wrong, but if not, don’t you think that is kind of socialistic? I mean, the government did “save” the autoworkers and all and that must have meant the pension funds, too. Not saying that is a bad thing, just sayin…

  984. uaw – I don’t expect you to agree with me so I suggest you use that little round thingy on your mouse when I comment. Just put your finger and turn it. You know the finger you use to stick up your nose but be sure to wipe your finger off first otherwise you will gum it up and the wheel won’t work.

    IMO Somalia would be more in line with your idea of a civilized society.

    PS – Grammar: The difference between knowing your shit and knowing you’re shit.


  985. No one with a brain give a damn what Allen West thinks!

  986. someone else’s opinion of Debbie….


  987. Poolman: If Thumper can’t spell “president,” Thumper is hardly going to be concerned about checking facts. Nor will Thumper understand that, as a matter of law, the “predisent” can’t get a super pac to do anything.

  988. poolman…
    so what was thumper talking about……Fluke’s political career ……..shit is see going to take Wasserman’s place now…..next comment deleted….

  989. Those 28 thumpers must have been to the head. Sorry, as it seems to have affected your comprehension. Is it even worth pointing out we’ve already been all over this and Ms Fluke was NOT talking about her birth control?

  990. i love how you bleeding heart liberals jump on the band wagon when a conservative calls an idiot who wants to have tax payers (you) to pay for her birth control because she can’t afford it even though she is going to a 60k a year college! Oh and by the way when she graduates she will start her job (on average) at 160K a year which makes her one of those dreaded 1% you love to hate. It seems you are having an enormous amount of cute elite quips about Rush and his terrible use of a four letter word, which i don’t condone, but you have no problem with one of your own calling a candidate for our national office a c**t ! or other liberal pundits stating another conservative candidate should have been aborted! As usual your mindset seems to be that the only dirty words belong to conservatives. Your unwavering use of the double standard to fit your liberal agenda makes me (as rick santorum states so well) want to vomit. our predisent says we need to have more civilness inour dialogue when talking about ms. fluke but mentions nothing about the remarks by bill mahr nor does he have the super pac give back his 1 million donation. just more of the same and we should consider the sourse.

  991. oops….


    your listening to Debbie Wasserman Schultz…..

    “The test is pretty simple. Is the program so critical, it’s worth borrowing money from China to pay for it? And on that basis of course you get rid of Obamacare, that’s the easy one. Planned Parenthood, we’re going to get rid of that. The subsidy for Amtrak, I’d eliminate that. The National Endowment for the Arts, the National Endowment for the Humanities,” Romney said.

  993. I posted this regarding Rush over at Rutherford’s. It goes beyond the recent hoopla and describes his probable intended purpose, of which he has been monumentally successful. But maybe the information age has left him in its virtual dust this time around…


  994. Here’s Mitt Romney’s proposal for reducing the deficit, according to an interview he gave yesterday:

    “Planned Parenthood, we’re going to get rid of that.”

    That’s right, he said he’d get rid of Planned Parenthood — the more than 90-year-old organization that one in five American women has depended on for health care, and that for many women is their only option for cancer screenings, clinical breast exams, and critical preventive care. Apparently, we can’t afford it.

    Here’s what he says we can afford: Protecting and expanding tax cuts for the wealthy, and “that includes the top 1 percent.”

    Mitt Romney’s actually willing to cut off women’s access to health care to help fund tax benefits for millionaires and billionaires.

    If you had any doubts that these attacks are real, or think they’re just a side effect from a nasty GOP primary season, consider this a reality check.

    There’s one thing you can do right now — whether you’re a man or woman — to fight back against Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, and every Republican in Congress who repeatedly thinks a woman’s health is their chip to barter:

    Stand with the Democrats as we stand for women:


    Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz
    Chair – Democratic National Committee


  995. Cynthia -

    Apologise for length. Here is what they sent to us:

    While MSV does not take a pro-choice or pro-life position, this year’s session has included abortion-related bills that have required our consideration. On the surface these bills may appear to be only about social policy, however they also have implications that are relevant to us as physicians in terms of protecting the sanctity of the physician-patient relationship, preventing additional liability risk and ensuring that our legislature is not codifying a standard of care.

    This being said, the physician leaders and lobbying team for MSV evaluated these bills and decided to take a targeted approach to addressing these bills primarily on the basis of liability risk and, when appropriate, standard of care. Due to this strategy, we have been able to effectively defeat, carry over, or improve several of these bills which are updated below.

    HB 1, the “personhood bill” has been carried over until next year. When the bill was heard in committee MSV expressed opposition as the bill would have created a new cause of action by a fetus against a physician.

    SB 674 would have allowed two causes of action to be brought against a physician upon the death of a fetus; one by the mother and one by her representative or the father of a fetus. MSV worked with the House Courts of Justice committee to achieve favorable changes that preserve the current law which allows only one cause of action. The bill awaits action by the full House and, upon House approval, must be reconsidered by the full Senate in light of the amended language.

    SB 277 would have prohibited a forced or coerced abortion and would have created a private right of action against the person who threatened or coerced a woman to have an abortion for the woman herself and for the wrongful death of the unborn child. This could have created a new cause of action for just discussing risks, benefits and alternatives to address physicians’ liability exposure, MSV worked in committee to delete the language that created a cause of action against a physician. The bill was carried over, ending its consideration for the year.

    HB 462, often referred to as the “ultrasound” bill would require a physician to perform a transabdominal ultrasound on a woman prior to performing an abortion, thereby codifying a standard of care. MSV worked with key legislators to oppose this bill on that basis. We made a very strong effort with these legislators and were disappointed that the bill ultimately passed in the Senate by a narrow margin. The bill was amended on the Senate floor to create an exception for the ultrasound requirement for women who are the victims of rape or incest. The bill passed the Senate yesterday and returns to the House for a vote on the amended language.

    HB 1285 and SB 637, the pain-capable unborn child protection act, would have prohibited an abortion after 20 weeks gestation and would have created a new civil cause of action against a physician who performs an abortion in violation of the bill. MSV worked to amend these bills to avoid a new cause of action. Both bills died in committee.

    As a membership organization that has a strong commitment to advocating for its members, there is a dynamic tension when it comes to communicating about issues such as these. Factors we consider include a respect for the individual social positions of each member, an acute awareness of the political strategies we must consider to stay focused and achieve the most we can for our members, and last but certainly not least, providing our members with timely information.

    This session, we weighed these options carefully. Our commitment to you is that we will make every effort to share as much as we can in real-time without unnecessarily compromising efforts that ultimately benefit physicians and patients in Virginia. In addition, we will explore ways to better connect you with information about issues and legislation that may impact our profession and our patients. Keeping you updated and informed keeps you equipped to advocate personally and that is certainly something that is critical to leading health care in Virginia.

    re: everybody has a dog in this fight. No argument there. I’m in.

  996. Pf – you may have a point. But by placing no blame on the physician it keeps them from complaining too loudly….. or is that the part of the “changes to this lunatic law” they pushed?

    Yes the young girls don’t know what it was like before legal abortion AND also the pill. The social attitude and fear of pregnancy kept many young ladies from having fun. But the men of today should join in this fight for birth control. Back then they really had to do some smooth talking to bed a young lady but most had to get married for sex. The men today don’t realize just how important access to birth control is to them as well.


  997. Cynthia -

    Actually, the VA Med Society has (they tell us) been right there in the middle of the fight and has made some changes to this lunatic law, but they really don’t care what we have to say. We are but few. Women, on the other hand, make up half the population, control 80% of the money and all the p**sy, as my old high school buddy used to say. Talk about real power!

    Most of those legislators are men and they have wives at home. I can’t believe the majority of them back this kind of nonsense. My wife says most young women have never lived during the days when abortion was unavailable and just aren’t paying attention to politics. It never occurs to them that they could LOSE this.

  998. Pf – all those women are working and after their paying job they come home to cook, clean, wash, pay bills, homework with their kids etc. In their spare time they try to catch a few hours of sleep.

    By the way…where are the physicians complaining about being told how to do their job? That it is okay to lie or mis-state the condition of a women’s pregnancy or the fetus or abortion can cause breast cancer. Oh that’s right…..they can not be held responsible or be sued if the woman dies or the child is born with disabilities. What’s next??

    PS – juanitajean.com has the third day of Doonesbury.


  999. Sex is evil, don’t you know PFesser? And it is the woman’s fault, they entice men and men cannot be held to any standards, because they are the victims of women’s sexuality. The Christian fundamentalist elements of our society have the same attitude as Islamic fundamentalists, they long for America to be a honor society, next they will advocate honor killings.

  1000. NOP -

    I see that santorum (Ol’ Frothy) is ahead in Pa. If he is on the ticket anywhere, including dog-catcher, count me IN.

    I have three adult daughters. I am ready to take a stick of firewood to some of these bastards’ heads. My wife is researching right now to see how our state senators a representative in VA voted. As a physician – and more importantly a father – I couldn’t be angrier. What the hell is wrong with these people, anyway?

  1001. PFesser, women (55% of the electorate) and supportive men will deal with the problem on election day.

  1002. Thanks, UAW – this brings up several additional issues I hadn’t considered. The procedure doesn’t change anybody’s mind about getting an abortion and simply adds additional work for everybody.

    Interestingly, I read ultrasounds all day long. I wouldn’t have the foggiest idea how to do one, particularly a TV exam. The requirement that a physician rather than a trained technician perform the U/S jus