Margaret, I wish Harold could have lived to see this day. As a veteran, he was always hopeful that we would one day get Bin Laden. He would have been very proud and then he would have been pissed.
Had I not seen it with my own eyes, I would have never believed it. FOX found a way to turn even this into a negative for Obama. I tuned in after you called and watched Sean Hannity make a fool of himself like you were saying. Honestly, that is exactly what I would have expected from FOX – complaining because the US military took the time to follow Muslim traditions before eventually ditching the son-of-a-bitch at sea. Sean, of course, wanted something a bit more flashy. Had we done it Hannity’s way, the body would have been photographed wearing Princess Beatrice’s hat. Honestly FOX, why don’t we just hang him on a cross and see if his followers retaliate? Sean is an idiot.
Of course Greta and Glenn were vying for stupidest person on FOX as well, but a race to the bottom on that network is over before it begins. Was I the only one who noticed all three of them kept accidentally saying Obama rather than Usama? I bet not. But I bet I am the only one who points it out.
It’s called honor Mr. Hannity, Mr. Beck and Mr. Van Susteren… you jackasses. Obama understands it. The US military has it. FOX needs it. It makes us better than them. But I guess the morons over at FOX are more worried that 72 Virgins really were waiting for him. And yes, I know I typed Mister Van Susteren… plastic surgery can only get you so far.
Ten years were a long time to wait for the end of Bin Laden. I ask you, how long before we see an end to FOX?
Change the channel America. I mean it. Really.
Margaret and Helen 
I appreciate, result in I found exactly what I used to be taking
a look for. You’ve ended my four day long hunt!
God Bless you man. Have a nice day. Bye
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I’ve been a lurker for quite a while, but hadn’t had a chance previous to this to introduce myself or comment on your most excellent blogs.
I felt compelled, though, to break that fourth-wall and extend my regards for Harold’s passing & my glad thoughts on you being able to continue on in your inimitable fashion.
VERY glad to hear that the move went well – and I completely understand about such an endeavor being quite a motivator to purge so much of the clutter & baggage we aren’t even aware we have accumulated! When my wife & I last moved, we donated somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 *car-loads* of items to our local resale shop (the proceeds of which go to one of the largest agencies for persons living with AIDS in the metro-Chicago area).
As my very as-religious mother likes to say, “may this gesture be a blessing to us both – they get something new & I don’t have to clean/sort/wash/keep track of it any more!”
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By: Nicklin Heap on September 5, 2011
at 1:16 PM
Pfessor, the Denny Burk site quotes Behring Breivik, the shooter. “My self and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural social identity and moral platform. That makes us Christian.”
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By: James on July 26, 2011
at 10:54 AM
April 1 e mail “… and the mountain snow pack is only slightly above normal and nothing to write home about.”
On April 4, a manager wrote his counterparts were being ignored when they warned of a serious flood potential. “managers will not even bother to call in if they feel like they are not being heard.”
April 15 ” All the ingredients are in place for major flooding”…Jack Hayes, Director of the National weather Service
April 25 “System storage is currently only ` MAF shy of where it peaked in 2010, and inflows to the system remain much above normal. One of the mainstream reservoirs, Oahe, is only a few tenths of a foot below the exclusive flood control pool. In short 1022 is already a huge water year in the Missouri River basin, and we’re just getting started.
I’ve cc’d Kansas City district H&H branch to see if they have any regulation flexibility particularly in the operation of HS Truman resevoir in Missouri.”
May 25 “I’m headed home. I no longer look people in the eye and tell them the forecast is 85,000 from Garrison”
A response “I understand. I quit answering my phone after our call at 1:00PM.”
Later, of course, the flow rose to 160,000 cfsf where it still is from the dam above us.
Change the words and circumstances. This senario is replaying in our government from the president on down.
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By: James on July 26, 2011
at 10:27 AM
Where this flood is concerned, my sense of humor has left me. The Sioux Falls Argus Leader obtained e mail communications under the Freedom of Information act.
It is as damning as Climategate or Journalist. The Corps were warned of a possible disaster as early as January, but they ignored the signs and believed they could handle the extra water.
After record rain and snow overwhelmed the system, they assured down stream interests flooding would be minimal. One woman said they had stopped answering the phone instead of dealing with people who doubted their chances of stopping the flood. They could have shared their near certainty that an unprecidented flood was on its way, but those bastards lied to us and to themselves. Telling us in April would have purchased valuable time.
I see what is happening around me, and it makes me mad, because the Corps now tells me I was right when before they brushed me off.
Yes, the country is in trouble, and guess who caused most of the problem. Our government. They are as culpable as the Corps.
So, don’t expect much light- hearted banter from me over the flood. The flood water is close enough to our house we can smell it- a sickly dead fish sort of odor. We are camping out. Much of our stuff is in three different houses. At least we have a house to move it back to.
Those bastards…
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By: James on July 26, 2011
at 9:43 AM
James, you really should learn to spot sarcasm when you hear it. I have news for you, the whole country is in trouble! There are oil companies begging for more and larger subsidizes and can rich bankers be expected to use the same 18k gold toilet seats at the office year after year? And you thought you were going to the head of that line?
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By: No One's Puppet on July 26, 2011
at 8:42 AM
NOP isn’t here to read my “I told you so,” but here it is anyway. KFAB.com has another areal video of our flood. On Thursday, a dike broke and flooded our cousin’s child hood home. She still owns it, but rents the house to another family.
We have lost a lot of money, and many have lost much more. We have been declared a disaster area which makes people eligable for low interest loans. Loans must be paid back. So far, the gifts NOP said we’d get have not materialized. Given the economy, we shouldn’t get them, but my point is she was wrong.
Several schools are considering delaying the start of the new year because the flood danger still exists, and the location of some district families is still unknown.
While our son was visiting, the family saw the water pouring out of Gavins Point Dam. Heavy rain sent our rivers up last week, but now they have dropped about a half foot. The worst is over, but the flood will remain for at least another month.
Hang nail my foot!
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By: James on July 26, 2011
at 7:45 AM
Some liberals, including the New York Times are trying to blame the shooting on American conservatives. Maybe there is a connection, but I think the main danger remains islamists. I don’t think they “just made one” any more than Rush Limbaugh made Timothy McVeigh. You could as easily blame Janet Reno for him. The shooter made himself.
Anonymous, you are probably right. I wonder when cognitive dissinence sets in as reality contradicts their cherished verities.
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By: James on July 26, 2011
at 6:24 AM
Any of you see this?
http://www.politicususa.com/en/norway-terrorist-dominionist
Very interesting. This is the little movement that Queen Esther is so fond of, I’m told. Pretty chilling stuff. I had a little discussion with one of these fellows right after the last election, when he was talking about his “gun” and making an obvious threat in high places.
I told him, damned fool – you think they just made one?
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By: PFesser on July 25, 2011
at 11:43 AM
I have to believe its an old bitties club that becomes more and more exclusive as the intolerance level rises. I noted in my Grandparents that they were always very set in their ways, naive to the changes in attitudes and mindsets in the world. My Grandmother on my mothers side was the kindest, sweetest person you could ever hope to meet. At age 85 she was still working 30-40 hours a week at a mom & pop pharmacy, worked 16 hour days as a volunteer during elections, and donated time at the church and the school. For whatever reason, black people, men in particular, scared her to death. She could deal with them on a professional level at work, but in private she you could always see the apprehension. She had mentioned one time that as a little girl her father warned her to watch herself around black people and it stuck with her to the end of her days.
There was no real rhyme or reason to my Grandmothers attitude, it was just how things were. I think a lot of the posters that fled to the kitchen that way. There is no rhyme or reason to how they think about things, it is just how things have always been. This makes having constructive conversations seeking out a greater truth to be all but impossible. IMO, they are not capable of an honest examination of what they believe, they just want to talk with people who will parrot their own beliefs back to them so they can have this one small place where they believe everyone thinks as they do.
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By: Anonymous on July 25, 2011
at 8:14 AM
While skimming, I read a comment by cryptoclearance or whatever the pen name is.She wrote she no longer subscribes to the kitchen because a clique has a restricted section where only the favored can post and read.
I don’t visit the kitchen and what happens there is none of my business, but her comments attracted my attention.
. Maybe they have good reason, or maybe they are showing their true colors as some did here not so long ago. They have a right to do anything they want, but the comment was interesting.
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By: James on July 24, 2011
at 10:02 PM
This is not good news for democracy or our freedom http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html?ncid=webmail1
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By: Noah on July 24, 2011
at 8:35 AM
He should be fired and charged.
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By: James on July 24, 2011
at 3:43 AM
Interesting video of an Ohio cop threatening to kill an armed citizen who has a concealed carry permit.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-fu-with-me-cop-threatens-concealed-carry-gun-owner-during-traffic-stop/
The citizen tries to inform the cop that he is armed but the cop won’t let him.
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By: Pfesser on July 23, 2011
at 9:00 PM
Three years of Obama has given us:
- $14.4 trillion deficit
– ruined economy
- ignores the War Powers Act
– gas/food/clothing prices skyrocketing
– 5 wars, one with a record death toll
– foreign policy disasters
– raiding the public pension fund to avoid the debt ceiling
– lost 800+ seats for his own party - 44 million Americans on food stamps
– Over half the states suing to get out of Obamacare.
– 1 in 4 mortgages under water
- ATF gunrunning scandal unfolding
🙂 YES WE CAN! 🙂
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By: Anonymous on July 23, 2011
at 8:14 AM
Too much to ask if O’Blamer would fall on his kiddie sword and leave us all together, so we could strike his utter failure in every regard from record?
I could give the man kudos and a shout out for that.
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By: Southern Living on July 23, 2011
at 7:48 AM
The world I knew ended on June 1. Normality will not return for months. Now, it is the nation’s turn. “Its the end of the world as we know it…” REM “I believe the world is burning to the ground…” Matchbox 20.
I believe the Republican version of the latest broken negotiations for the budget ceiling. If I am right, and we fall over the edge, Obama should do the honorable thing as Johnson did and announce he will not run for a second term.
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By: James on July 23, 2011
at 7:33 AM
A sheep…calling someone else a sheep..priceless.
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By: Noah on July 22, 2011
at 5:01 PM
It’s a hoax anyway. Leave it to Noah to not only buy it but continue to distribute it like a loyal sheep.
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By: Anonymous on July 22, 2011
at 4:41 PM
I understand perfectly well. Like Hitler you want to rewrite history to your own myopic version so it fits into your belief system, stomping out all others.
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By: Noah on July 22, 2011
at 3:48 PM
Noah
You are so full of yourself (and other stuff)
I’m not a Christer. Gave that up 60 years ago.
But why do you think you can decide not to drink Pepsi but I can’t. Its called freedom of speech just in case you don’t understand.
Freaking idiot.
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By: Anonymous on July 22, 2011
at 3:22 PM
Anonymous, I find your rush to embrace discrimination disturbing. I find it even more disturbing that if you are a Christian, especially a white Christian, it is accepted by Liberals like Anonymous to discriminate at will. None of our traditions are protected. None of our heritage has value. You do not have to believe in God to respect the fact that others do. Christian beliefs are part of the American heritage and Liberal people like Anonymous seem to have no problems rewriting historical words to erase our heritage. No one is harmed by us paying respect to our history. It is a historical fact that should not be, and will not be if I have anything to say about it, erased.
Promoting the rewriting of history is a grievous crime, and had I a say would be dealt with in a most extreme and permanent way, as should any acts of Treason.
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By: Noah on July 22, 2011
at 1:45 PM
Dear Helen, where are you? The world needs your views. Like some faithful old dog, every morning I plod wearily out to the mailbox (okay, this blog) and lie down, ever hopeful … I do hope things are going well for you.
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By: oldgrumpysteve on July 22, 2011
at 12:02 PM
Pepsi minus 2 customers if they put those words on the can
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By: Anonymous on July 22, 2011
at 11:48 AM
Quote for the day:
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”
— Alexis de Tocqueville
Watch out, boys – the secret’s out…
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By: PFesser on July 22, 2011
at 9:22 AM
Pepsi cans coming out with pictures of the Empire State building and The Pledge of Allegiance on them. Pepsi left out two little words on the pledge,”Under God”. Pepsi said they didn’t want to offend anyone.
Rather sad imo. Pepsi minus 1 customer.
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By: Noah on July 22, 2011
at 6:46 AM
You’re welcome Alaskapi, If I find something else, I will tell you. No, I don’t think all of the folks who don’t post here left because of fear. I believe they just don’t like us, and I don’t care. Remember Sally’s jokes about my armadillo skin.
I think of you and hope this new family development doesn’t get too complicated. I’m not thinking much about politics either because our son is still here from California. I hope to visit Alaska some day too, but I will never step inside of a small private plane. The last times made me think God was out to get us.
After nearly a week of heat indexes over 110 we have cooler weather and thunderstorms. The ring of fire will be over us today, and the couple of days of eighties is a good thing.
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By: James on July 21, 2011
at 7:23 AM
Alaskapi-
I have several friends in Anchorage with whom I exchange regular correspondence and an occasional phone call. I couldn’t imagine any politics there except Libertarian, since self-sufficiency and personal responsibility could mean the difference literally between life and death, especially out in the villages.
Hope one day to get up there and take some bush flying lessons from this guy:
http://cubdriver749er.com/
Good stuff. Maybe some day…
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By: pfesser53 on July 21, 2011
at 3:40 AM
James- Thanks! looked em up- will read more when I have time.
Summer here is very short and very intense. Fireweed is blooming- summer is over when fireweed is done:-)
Murdered nephew’s son likely coming to visit- something which has set off a chain of need-to-deal-with-personal things much more important than politics so don’t be thinking all of us hippie-commie-liberal-weirdos are just hiding out.
UAW-
Pretty surprising isn’t it?!
I ended up so far in the bottom left-left I almost fell off the chart 🙂 figured I’d just be a teeny bit off center… guess not!
Interesting set of parameters there- explained to me why some lefty things torch my shorts- I am not a left authoritarian type… too libertarian for that.
take care.
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By: alaskapi on July 20, 2011
at 7:15 PM
Alaskapi, in case you are still interested and have looked in, an Israeli company, Grow Fish Anywhere claims to be able to raise fish in a contained system which drains no water outside. That is all I know about it.
Sometimes, it is better to fight another day when you are unarmed, Noah. Otherwise, i think they just don’t want to be “around” us, because they could be doing a lot with Rupert Murdock’s trouble.
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By: James on July 20, 2011
at 2:33 PM
One thing I find interesting as the world is crumbling around the Messiah, the Liberals have gone silent.
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By: Noah on July 20, 2011
at 12:14 PM
Obama recently said he disagrees with his earlier statement and that he was playing politics then. Its too bad the press didn’t research his past with the diligence they used with Sarah Palin.
Ben Franklin, I think said our society will last until people learn they can vote themselves money and what it buys.
We are near the tipping point when consumers will out number producers.Washington still has a few brave enough to do the right thing, but time is fleeting.
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By: James on July 20, 2011
at 12:05 PM
I really encourage anyone to get Laffer’s book. It has really opened my eyes. When they just print money, it transfers the money from your hand to theirs and they don’t need to do anything else. It’s the oldest trick in the book for unscrupulous politicians.
If there are a million bucks of goods in the world for example, and let’s say you have 10,000 dollars in the bank. If the govt prints another million dollars, the value of your 10K just went to 5K and the other 5K went to them. Just like that – and they didn’t even have to face the voters by passing a new tax. This “quantitative easing” is sucking everything out of your bank account and you don’t even know it. Mine, too.
I’m sure you have seen this; it’s been all over the Internet.
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By: PFesser on July 20, 2011
at 11:59 AM
What gets me is the incredible hypocrisy of the Mesiah. How can someone make that speech, then turn around a few short years later and do what he is doing? We need no further proof that he will do anything, say anything, to further his agenda. He cannot be trusted.
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By: Noah on July 20, 2011
at 10:52 AM
I’m onto another book: Laffer’s “End of Prosperity.” It is really intriguing to follow his history of how the various presidents have destroyed our monetary system – beginning with Richard Nixon and his taking us off the gold standard. That freed the Treasury to fire up the presses and print as much fiat money as they wanted.
History has example after example of how, once the money supply goes to pure paper, the politicians cannot resist just printing and printing – which is what we are doing now. The result is default – either overt, or covert as our money becomes worthless.
God is there nobody in Washington with the guts to do the right thing? Americans can take the sacrifice – they have done it again and again – but they WON’T sacrifice when it will all go down a rat hole.
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By: PFesser on July 20, 2011
at 8:25 AM
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. . Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that .the buck stops here.. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
— Senator Barack Obama, March 20, 2006
Things that make you go hmmmm.
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By: Noah on July 20, 2011
at 7:34 AM
Pfessor, google Missouri River flood of 2011 Lee Valley inc. or something like that. Click on July 3, page one, and you will see pictures of the spillways and lake at Gavins Point dam near Yankton, SD. That is also near Tom Brokaw’s old home. Other pictures on other dates include views in the valley including near our farm.
The site also has some pictures of the farmers and allies who built their own dike and later blew a hole in it to equalize water pressure and save three towns.
Lee Valley is the business wing of a farm family which lives across the river from us. The next dam upstream is Fort Randal, and others reach to Montana. Each is releasing a tremendous amount of water.
KFAB.com may also have some pictures.
Speaking of sink holes, people in Council Bluffs have been running their sump pumps all month. The city told some to stop if sand is coming through the pumps. The water is taking the ground with it, and creating sink holes. The Omaha air port had some sink holes until they dug seventy ninety foot drainage wells and pumped water from them.
A survey shows about half of Britain’s rich people want to leave because the weather is too bad, it is too politically correct, and taxes are too high.
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By: James on July 19, 2011
at 10:14 AM
Marvelous, I have a hard time understanding this point of view and wonder if you can explain why you feel as you do? I find that all voices have value. When we lose a voice, or point of view, we are all less for it. I listen to both Liberal talk shows and Conservative talk shows and would wish for neither to go away. By hearing the same story from two different perspectives, I almost always find myself better informed.
In a country such as ours where we purport to cherish freedom in its many forms, I cannot understand why so many of the Liberal bent attempt to do everything they can to make sure theirs is the only voice. If anyone can show me how the desire to stamp out any voice isn’t inconsistent with the founding principles of our country I am all ears.
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By: Noah on July 19, 2011
at 9:55 AM
Sad and funny as always. Hopefully it will be much sooner than ever thought when FOX goes away. Okay, just wishing. How does one make change in areas like these. One way is not to support them by turning on their channel. I admit I would have to give up a few shows, but I want a better life and planet and it would be worth it. There is always better things to do with ones time like be proactive at least in my community.
We have sink holes in Florida where the ground opens up unannounced, sometimes to great sizes. We could always start stuffing people we don’t like in them to fill in the hole. It would save tax payers dollars.
Oh, sarcasm.
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By: Marvelous on July 19, 2011
at 9:36 AM
alaskapi….
HOLY S#$T
I looked at your charts(and then took the test) and I am farther left than Obama…..
but then those charts should show Obama to the right of George W…..
but they were good for a laugh….
before 9/11 Rush even accused “W” of being left of center….
if I had to put Kennedy on that chart it would be just below Mccain and maybe a little right
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By: uawtradesman on July 19, 2011
at 8:39 AM
James –
Which dam is being released? I’ll see if I can find a video.
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By: PFesser on July 19, 2011
at 8:18 AM
Yes, PFesssor, we live on an amazing planet. The high evaporation rate is surely helping lower the flood level, but combine the extra air-born water with normal crop aspiration, and you have an uncomfortable situation. The new local forecast is for a heat index of up to 120.
The flood has stabilized, and those who stayed dry will likely remain dry. People are moving back to a town which was depopulated except for six families around the first of June. The high evaporation rate should also slow the rise of ground water which is basically cleaner flood water. Crops in patches within walking distance of our house are slowly drowning, but the water has quit expanding. A few spots are now only mud.
If water leaves before the winter freeze, I plan to gather some five gallon pails of stranded minnows and put them in our lake.
This rain forest environment is also good for mosquitoes and similar creatures. When I was picking raspberries, something slimy stuck to my left hand. It was a tree frog. I like tree frogs, so I was careful not to hurt it.
The Corps of Engineers orgionaly planned to reduce the Gavens Point release to below 160,000 cfs on August 23. The new date is around August 1. They plan to slowly lower the river level to avoid damage. If it goes down too fast, erosion will increase.
Our son leaves on Sunday. Before then, the family plans to drive up to the dam and watch the water. The dam has become a tourist attraction, and we will probably never see such a water release again.
My being able to tell the Corps of Engineers and FEMA “I told you so,” was especially satisfying. They were mad at first, but since I was one of the few people to be nice to them, they agreed with me.
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By: James on July 19, 2011
at 7:59 AM
James –
I just went to an online “engineering toolbox” and took a look at evaporation rates. Given the spread of the floodwaters and their sun exposure, the amount of evaporation is tremendous.
Then I looked at the inflow from the river itself and while the evaporation is helpful, it by itself won’t be enough.
Amazing planet we live on.
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By: PFesser on July 19, 2011
at 6:47 AM
Yes, Media Matters has a problem. So does Rupert Murdoch’s empire. It is human nature for one side to ignore its own short comings and maximize the others’.
The outing of a CIA operative sent the left into a frenzy as they dreamed of Bush officials being marched off the jail. It didn’t happen, and as Wayne thinks, little will come of this.
Even if Fox News should be destroyed, it would rise again because the concept is too valuable to ignore. Conservative leaning news has ratings and makes money.
Meanwhile, the Missouri River has risen about a foot in Omaha, but the dikes are holding. NOP told me not to worry. The government would shower us flood victims with gifts. However, Ag Secretary Vilsack told the area not to expect much aid beyond what is normal because the budget will not allow it.
Our disaster status will make us eligable for low interest loans, if we need them. That is enough, but of course, the money will be paid back with low interest as it should be. So far, we see no debit cards or mobile homes. Families are still living in camp grounds etc.
President Obama couldn’t find the time to visit the flood area when he was already in Iowa. Michele Bachman canceled an engagement to fly over the flood zone. She was aware of the symbolism when Obama was not. She gained some favorable air time at Obama’s expense.
Once in a while, I enjoy saying “I told you so.”
Now, people are suffering with heat indexes of up to 118 degrees as much of the country is.
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By: James on July 19, 2011
at 6:22 AM
Wouldn’t hold your breath Old Crow. FOX News nor the WSJ are involved the British scandal – other than both are owned by Murdock and the Dow Jones head resigned – a man who later became editor of WSJ. Six months from now, both will still be far and away #1 in their respective markets and libs will still be whining and crying.
However, what you should worry about is your beloved Media Matters hit squad. Apparently they’ve run into a real problem with legality declaring War on FOX News. Gee, that’s terribly bad news. 🙂
Now wouldn’t that be a shame if Hillary Clinton’s hit squad and Barack Obama’s lackeys joined Air America in the dustbin of media history?
Good luck…The Dimocratic beloved George “Nazi” Soros may have to start over again.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 18, 2011
at 4:16 PM
Thank you Wayne, for the complement. From what I know of you, I believe you are also a good man. If we were in debate class I’d hope we were on the same side.
I don’t like personal attacks, Someone who has different opinions can still be a good person. On one site, where I was also outnumbered, several of us became “friends.” One was a writer who edited a farmers almanac for a former employer. He asked me to guess the national weather, and I did for the three years he edited the magazine. Another man sent me CDs of his band. That wouldn’t have happened had we not seen each other’s humanity.
On the other hand, when I was in the service men were trying to hurt or kill me, I was conflicted, because I believed they were just like me. We were merely threats to each other. That didn’t matter when the time came to eliminate them, They might have been the nicest men in creation, but it was them or me.
I got the same feeling when bullies ganged up on outliers on this site.Some were good to me, and some were jerks. I decided that this forum would change. I didn’t know how, but I knew if I waited others of like mind would find the site. I am relentless, patient, and goal oriented. And as Sally observed, i have a thick skin.
“You also remind me of a younger James with less nightmares…” Sally, I never thought of that. Maybe I like Noah because I like myself. Ha!
I am too happy for much angst today. Flood water is on two sides of our farmstead, but our house is still dry. The detour to Omaha is still open, and we are in Omaha with our son at our daughter and son in law’s home. We will be here for a week before he returns to California. His wife just mailed my Fathers Day gift.
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By: James on July 18, 2011
at 2:08 PM
Hey look, a Troll, just in from fantasy island.
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By: Noah on July 18, 2011
at 2:06 PM
Well, Helen you just may get your [and my] wish regarding FOX.
Acourse, it’s just too bad that a family had to wait in limbo, clinging to false hope that their daughter might still be alive since her phone was still being activated. But hey, what’s a little collateral damage when the public deserves the RIGHT TO KNOW, correct?
And, so what if victims of 9/11 had their phones hacked into by people who had no right to the information on them? The prurient public has a RIGHT TO KNOW and that’s all that matters, right?
FOX is going down. It’s just sad that it took so much suffering to make it happen.
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By: two crows on July 18, 2011
at 1:57 PM
Pfessor, sometimes things just don’t turn out the way we want it to, and there is a better way to spend your time – you just have to find it out for yourself. I take classes – lots of them, mostly on taking care of ourselves financially.
Maybe you should start your own blog like “chatty kitchen” or Rutherford’s. You can make the rules – I know I would if I had one. Douse the flame throwers if you want, or establish ground rules. People like me don’t like to have lively discussions that turn into insults, and I also don’t like to be pushed around, so I just leave.
Respect is earned. It starts with being decent to others, or being filthy rich, lol.
Here is a handshake across the Pacific from my plastic Honolulu laptop.
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 17, 2011
at 10:24 PM
And one more thing, Sally –
I need to follow my own advice.
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By: pfesser53 on July 17, 2011
at 9:48 PM
“Pfessor, something changed about you recently, and it is a welcome change. ”
Don’t know about that. I know I am not having a good time and that makes it not worth it. I hate the arguing and even more I hate HAVING TO. I come here to discuss and learn and it is clearly the wrong venue to do that. You spend days trying to learn something from someone and then somebody else comes in and starts a flame war – and I won’t be pushed around, so it’s Katie-bar-the door once again.
I hate it. I just hate it. The ‘blogosphere’ has become such a waste of time. When I was in college my friends and I used to meet and drink beer and have really lively discussions, but nobody got mad; we were all friends and had respect for each other. Here everybody is anonymous and doesn’t give a crap. I just hate it. There has to be a better way to spend my time.
Anyway, appreciate the comment. Thanks.
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By: pfesser53 on July 17, 2011
at 9:44 PM
It has always been difficult for me to “hold my own” in discussions because of my non confrontational nature. I do not see any benefit from arguing points that only become like pushes on the playground. I am the type that tends to yield with a “maybe.”
And thus, by admitting my shortcomings, shall be bowing out shortly. I don’t have the time or the need to defend what I believe.
Pfessor, something changed about you recently, and it is a welcome change.
Noah, even though you have been the target of many attacks (sometimes deserved, many times not), you have a good mind because of your willingness to seek more than what you believe to be true. I think Michael Moore presents very good evidence about the events of 911. You may not draw the same conclusion as I have, but at least you will be willing to look at the opposing side’s case. I know he is biased and slants his productions to the far left. (Actually, I would be considered a villian with his judgment calls on capitalists.) You also remind me a bit of a younger James with less nightmares.
UAW, indeed, we are a long ways away from Kennedy’s years. We were far less divided then, or was it that we were more united?
Time and relationships are 2 of the most important resources we have. I really need to spend those elsewhere right now.
Aloha, Namaste, and Peace be with us all.
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 17, 2011
at 8:26 PM
Well, you’re certainly welcome too. I’m glad I could assist in helping everyone, as that certainly my intent. Have no fear, though. My purpose has pretty much been served. At least, until the election draws closer next year.
I always did confuse you with Mother Theresa. Sorry, I couldn’t think of a loving atheistic reputation off hand, so I had to make religious analogy once again. 😦
I’ve seen your calming influence here, your warm nature, numerous friendships, your examples of great humanity, and diplomacy. Why, I’ve practically modeled the ideal human hospice after your demonstrated example on this very board, and damn if I don’t want to be just like you.
However, I just can’t let your comment go without a reminder just so the resident diplomat remembers a previous conversation we once had during first acquaintance on this lovely blog.
By: Wayne Perram on July 17, 2011
at 7:59 PM
You are quite welcome, Wayne –
Believing in magic does not make one unqualified for ALL pursuits – including those that involve the Great Questions, such as how to handle anger in others. Fortunately, since you have been on board, everyone has been able to get quite a lot of practice – I thank you for that.
Of course, finding wisdom in one part of a Book of Magic does not mean that every word is gospel.
Cheers.
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By: Pfesser on July 17, 2011
at 7:17 PM
Dr. Pfesser, in your atheistic mannerism, I commend you for quoting very elegantly from men who are professed Christians time and again – even if King did plagiarize The Letter from the Birmingham Jail, which was quite good.
However, from that same book you deny/quote, you’ll also find this verse:
Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Consider me doing God’s work here. 🙂
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By: Wayne Perram on July 17, 2011
at 4:30 PM
Editor,
Has America become the land of special interest and home of the double standard?
Lets see: if we lie to the Congress, it’s a felony and if the Congress lies to us its just politics; if we dislike a black person, we’re racist and if a black person dislikes whites, its their 1st Amendment right; the government spends millions to rehabilitate criminals and they do almost nothing for the victims; in public schools you can teach that homosexuality is OK, but you better not use the word God in the process; you can kill an unborn child, but it is wrong to execute a mass murderer; we don’t burn books in America, we now rewrite them; we got rid of communist and socialist threats by renaming them progressive; we are unable to close our border with Mexico, but have no problem protecting the 38th parallel in Korea; if you protest against President Obama’s policies you’re a terrorist, but if you burned an American flag or George Bush in effigy it was your 1st Amendment right.
You can have pornography on TV or the internet, but you better not put a nativity scene in a public park during Christmas; we have eliminated all criminals in America, they are now called sick people; we can use a human fetus for medical research, but it is wrong to use an animal.
We take money from those who work hard for it and give it to those who don’t want to work; we all support the Constitution, but only when it supports our political ideology; we still have freedom of speech, but only if we are being politically correct; parenting has been replaced with Ritalin and video games; the land of opportunity is now the land of hand outs; the similarity between Hurricane Katrina and the gulf oil spill is that neither president did anything to help.
And how do we handle a major crisis today? The government appoints a committee to determine who’s at fault, then threatens them, passes a law, raises our taxes; tells us the problem is solved so they can get back to their reelection campaign.
What has happened to the land of the free and home of the brave?
– Ken Huber
Tawas City, Michigan
Truer words….
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By: Noah on July 17, 2011
at 2:43 PM
re: how to respond to attacks.
I’ve tried it all different ways. As a lifelong atheist, forgive my quoting the Christian Bible, but nothing is ultimately satisfactory except as in Proverbs: “A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.”
You will find the same idea in MLK’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” This problem has been solved before; it is well-known what works and what does not. Preemptive attack and even strong response TO an attack is never what gets the job done long term. If you are attacked personally your choices are “a soft answer” – which works marvelously – or none, which is ofttimes good enough.
When I am attacked personally I have the verbal wherewithal to leave ’em bleeding, but I am, in the long term, not happy. I have personally suggested burying the hatchet – those that want to, anyway – and have been met with crickets time after time. So be it if necessary, but for me at least, the offer still stands.
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By: Pfesser on July 17, 2011
at 2:22 PM
uaw- where would you put Kennedy?
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008
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By: alaskapi on July 17, 2011
at 10:32 AM
😳 I desperately need a preview key. One to many “ares” there in the first sentence.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 17, 2011
at 10:12 AM
James, you’re are apparently a good man. I admire those that hold their tongue. But never forget the body is made of many parts, each “effective” in their own way.
My advice to Noah was no attack on any particular person but simply the bad example of the latest two. The two mentioned are neither any better or worse, anymore mendacious or irresponsible than others of the resident hack crowd who frequent here.
That is a philosophy I do not necessarily agree. If opinions are to me anything on a board, then the summation of those opinions must be caricature of the quality of those voicing the opinions. A bully, a tyrant, a despot, a liberal hack understands one thing and one thing only – a bigger bully. I believe your conclusion James based on a false premise – that this Chatty Cathy Kitchen crowd are reasonable people seeking reasoned debate. Their game is nothing more than rank propaganda, under the liberal banner of “What’s in it for me?” They are no more reasonable than jihadists and about as rational. Therefore, I will treat them as such.
And that horde of attackers and their style is exactly why my demeanor towards them will continue to be one of ill intent. I didn’t like the way they treated and singled out the meek or the young
These gutless cowards are threat only as long as they can act as a pack. Consider my method a taste of their own bad medicine. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on July 17, 2011
at 10:11 AM
In your fantasy world of life without FOX, no more so than George Soros paying for your talking points. But I’ll say this for the Koch Brothers that I can’t say for Soros: (1) They didn’t sell their legacy to the Nazis; (2) They aren’t convicted felons.
Except my comment had little or nothing to do with patriotism other than it a virtue – a noun the progressive ilk not capable of understanding. I remember just 30 some months back, most of Libs telling us patriotism was the highest form of dissent – unless of course, the dissent is directed at Obama and his henchmen.
I’ll say it again Kate – you and your philosophy are morally bankrupt and without virtue. As adults, your opponents deal with your rank propaganda recognizing the lies, and your canyon wide gap in the reality of truth. As parents, we hide our children from it, where possible. You’ve basically ruined public education as monument to your inadequacies. Your well on your way to taking the rest of America with it. 😉
I suspect the real reason you see fewer M&H posts, is one can only call Sarah Palin a bitch and Rick Perry an asshole so many times, or blame George Bush for all of our problems before it becomes apparent to all but the most dim the problem ain’t Sarah, Rick or George. I doubt you’ll understand that either, unless MSNBC and Andrew Sullivan tell you otherwise.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 17, 2011
at 9:53 AM
By “credible” I meant that no one denied that Iraq had attacked our planes in the no fly zone. The people who questioned our rational for going to war were not saying Iraq never attacked our planes. At least I don’t think so. I was just answering Poolman’s question.
The first and second Gulf wars were like wars one and two. They were two phases of the same war.
I opposed our invading Iraq when we did, because the war in Afghanistan was unfinished, and we were still paying for our neglect after we used it to help defeat the Soviet Union.
The time might have come when we had to invade Iraq, because its government was slowly crumbling, and the country had many weapons which terrorist groups could have stolen.
? a liberal columnist supported the invasion on the grounds that our creating an outpost with an alternate political culture in the middle of jihad land made the war worthwhile. The Bush administration also used the concept as a rational for war.
In my opinion, the Bush administration overplayed the weapons to scare people into thinking Iraq was an immediate danger.
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By: James on July 17, 2011
at 9:37 AM
Noah- I agree with you about they whys it failed . I simply have had the feeling that we might have understood those things if we had been in a better and more rational national frame of mind at the time and worked hard not to let the war happen.
At the very least, we may have been able to require that the DOD do better by our men and women we sent there as regards the poor planning based on the incorrect assumptions regarding nation-building and Iraq’s conventional weapons caches.
Click to access d07444.pdf
————–
As a wild crazy liberal 🙂 I found myself at odds with others of my political persuasion in my support for the first Gulf War. It was narrowly defined as pushing the aggressor out of Kuwait , had international support monetarily and troopwise, and requirements for Hussein to co-operate afterwards under threat of a variety of sanctions including us bombing them to open up his arms programs for destrution and overview.
Within that narrow , well defined set of objectives I could lend support . I know a lot of people wanted it to be more or less and plenty got irritated at Hussein’s games over the years afterwards but we did ourselves no favors by allowing ourselves to get into Iraq later- whether for nation building, getting even with Hussein, or all the other reasons folks accepted the “inevitability” of that war.
I’d hope that the American people would have been more critical of all the foofarah building up to the invasion had they not been recovering from the shock of 9/11.
The Bush administration was reportedly looking at hows and whys to revisit Iraq even before 9/11.
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By: alaskapi on July 17, 2011
at 9:07 AM
James….
I agree with you about Kennedy being clasified republican now…..
we’re a long way from “Ask not what your country can do for you”
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By: uawtradesman on July 17, 2011
at 8:45 AM
alaskapi, I think the end results would have been the same no matter what our reason for going in. Our fault lies in an attempt to nation build for a people we did not understand. We went in assuming everyone, given the choice, wants democracy. Two factors were working against us. #1 For hundreds of years, one dictator or another has ruled that region. This is a culture that has never known anything close to democracy. #2 Saddam kept a very tight leash on information in his country. All his people knew about us is that we were the evil empire. They had nothing to contest this, so it was ingrained into their mindset.
I do not think the average person in Iraq has a firm grasp on or wants democracy. When so many generations have lived for so long another way, we should not have expected them to jump at the chance for a different way of life. Even those that do are so inexperienced that it will take decades to make anything that is stable and lasting. I don’t think we had a clue what we were getting into when we went in. 17th century thinking in the 21st century.
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By: Noah on July 17, 2011
at 8:33 AM
“No credible people contradicted the administration and its allies when they used Iraqi attacks to help justify the war. If they had been lying, someone would have produced the evidence, but no one did.”
——————
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/karl-rove-book-george-bush-iraq-wmd
http://inthesetimes.com/article/5663/sorry_rove_bush_did_lie_about_iraq/
James- while the issues surrounding Iraq firing on our planes certainly had something to do with the eventual move to invade Iraq the primary purpose for invasion was purported to be the WMD thingy. I’m with you on conspiracy theories but would contend that the shock to the American psyche regarding 9/11 made for an almost unilateral ignoring of any voices raised in contrary or questioning of facts at the time to the run-up to the war.
There were plenty of credible voices , including the head of the UN weapons inspections team, raised about a number of US contentions and we ran roughshod over them all or worked hard to discredit the speaker.
Our children will look at all this someday and be sad we were so lost in shock and anger that we chose to shut out information and views which might have added to a better plan and outcome.
And when I say we- I mean all of us.
Thank you for Time fish citation- problems with the story but interesting nonetheless.
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By: alaskapi on July 17, 2011
at 8:13 AM
Noah, I understand.
Like you, I believe unadulterated facts and results speak for themselves. Most of us are locked in mind sets which will not let us see the whole truth. Pettiness is the last resort of people who can not reconcile facts with their belief systems. Or maybe they just don’t like someone. A number of people who disagree with me have been nice to me. I will not attack them personally.
This morning’s exchanges reminded me of John Lennon’s “Magic Karma is gonna get you”.
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By: James on July 17, 2011
at 7:57 AM
I agree James, just remember where my advice is coming from. I have a post dedicated to bashing me by this board’s hosts. I just like to think that those of us that know in our hearts that we are in the right, can rise above the pettiness. Not that getting into the mud isn’t sometimes fun.
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By: Noah on July 17, 2011
at 7:41 AM
Wayne, I agree with Noah about separating the person from the opinion.
However, I remember when people treated me and others as badly or worse than you treat them. You are only one man. Consider a horde of attackers. They should be able to cope with you as we few did.
If Karma exists, you are revenge for past misdeeds.
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By: James on July 17, 2011
at 6:57 AM
That book is right PFessor, and we are well down a road to perdition the leftists are taking us.
Sally, with all due respect, and I do respect you, your explanation of the first hours of 9/11 and the government’s including Bush’s early reactions are bunk, unworthy of discussion without facts. Give us documentation, not impressions.
As for picking JFK as the greatest president in history, Marilyn Monroe would have agreed. Kennedy might have become the greatest president in history, but most Democrats today would have rejected him.. By today’s standards, he would have been a Republican. His tragic death left us with little but glitter and the hint of unfulfilled promise.
Katie,what do the Koch brothers have to do with this discussion? The Koch brothers are little different from George Soros, a primary funder of leftist causes. The the Kochs are a counterbalance the left wants to destroy.
Would you like to have a drink with George who as a teenager collaborated with the Nazis to save himself?
Wayne’s “most of the problems” paragraph is right on.
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By: James on July 17, 2011
at 6:45 AM
Sorry that was incorrect information on the font size, that is the Ctrl key and the – or + key
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By: Noah on July 17, 2011
at 6:37 AM
Wayne. I get what you are saying, and agree with much of what you say. Some a little less intense, some at least as intense if not more. What I am suggesting is that until the first shot is fired, a pinch more diplomacy wouldn’t hurt. I sometimes feel your concise points are sometimes lost inside the insults. I don’t think much is lost giving them the benefit of the doubt if they are able to present their ideas in a civilized manor. I enjoy a good debate. If they make it personal, tear them up if you see fit. If they are civil, lets tear them up intellectually. I think who and what they are is brought out in their ideas, the way they present them, and their reaction when their ideas are challenged, making preemptive analysis of their character unnecessary.
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By: Noah on July 17, 2011
at 6:35 AM
Sally, the first invasion of Iraq came during Bush Senior’s watch. We stopped just short of Baghdad and allowed him to keep his country and surrender after he invaded Kuwait. I also know Clinton, during that 18 month period that Saddam would not allow weapons inspectors in gave at least one public address on the topic.
As far as Fahrenheit 911 and Michael Moore go, I will consider it. I am hesitant for two reasons. One, the man has lost all credibility for his blatant hypocrisy. This is a man who definitely does not practice what he preaches. He has one set of rules for himself and another for everyone else. Not sure how I can take his production seriously when the man who made it has so many issues. Secondly, I tend to shy away from any movie that attempts to promote a false portrayal of events as this video has been claimed to do. I do the same thing with any movie on historical events that Hollywood has dressed up for entertainment sake, as I tend to file them in my mind as facts.
When you have a font size issue, you can often hold the alt key down, and press the – or + key to shrink and enlarge the text on the page to suit your needs.
As far as you vote for greatest President, Kennedy had a rough road ahead of him had he lived. Hindsight being 20/20, I think he would have faced some pretty serious scandals in his very near future.,not the least of which his affairs outside of marriage.
As far as Bush being to blame for the economy, there are a few things you need to take into consideration. The Democrats had complete control of the purse strings. Democrats headed up the two committees where we had our economic collapse. End of the day, the Messiah has created more debt in 3 years than Bush did in 8, even if you put the war costs on his watch. It is this massive debt that is now doing us in. As nice an idea as Messiah care is, we simply cannot sustain it in our current economic condition. What Liberals now have to ask themselves, is Messiah care worth selling our country down the river. Are we willing to run the very real risk of sacrificing our kids and grand kids future for health care? If we have any sense of morality, the answer should be hell no.
As far as a choice between socialism and conservatism, there is no choice. I think, no I know, there is a plethora of evidence to prove conclusively that socialism does not work. I am a huge Star Trek fan. Nothing would please me more than one day to have everything provided for everyone, and everyone;’ on their own, contributes to make that kind of society possible. As it stands we do not have that kind of integrity now. Welfare proved that people are willing to live with less and less to get a free check. The path of least resistance is human nature. Socialism takes away the average person’s need and desire to excel. Why do more if it is all going to be taken away. I don;t know about you, but that is not a place I want to live in.
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By: Noah on July 17, 2011
at 6:27 AM
The History Guy wrote “The No Fly Zone War, 1991-2003” The Iraqis fired missiles at our planes several times after 1998 after they stopped cooperating with inspectors who they possiblly rightly believed were spying on them.
No credible people contradicted the administration and its allies when they used Iraqi attacks to help justify the war. If they had been lying, someone would have produced the evidence, but no one did.
Conspiracy theories are like bad lovers. They are fun, and some times true, but usually the victim feels special because he/she thinks few can see the charms he/she does. His/her friends shake their heads and ask “what does he/ she see in her/him?”
Thanks uawtradesman. “What a maroon!””
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By: James on July 17, 2011
at 6:17 AM
No wonder Helen doesn’t post more. Gotta be irritating as hell to have to read all these rightwingnutz comments.
Gotta say, when all is said and done, nothing is better than seeing it all boiled down to “Marxists and communists by another name.”
Go see how much the Koch Brothers would like to have a beer with you.
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
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By: Kate on July 17, 2011
at 5:38 AM
You know Noah,
Since I assume I am quite a bit older than you being my kids either graduated from college, or close to graduating, let me give you a piece of advice – though I doubt you really need this when talking behind closed doors. Consider it preaching to the choir.
What you should fear and pray about is that there aren’t many more Poolman and Sally Lulu types in America who base their facts on the credibility of movies produced by discredited commie propagandists like Michael Al-Moore who has enriched himself at these dolts expense (he uses dummies like Sally), who all but even the most brain dead of libs have abandoned by now, that believe America behind 9/11 (Poolman still thinks it’s the Mossad in conjunction with BushCheneyHalliburton – no kidding), and believe the Chatty Kitchen crowd are “intelllects.”
If you want to know what is really wrong with America, it isn’t Obama, or Nancy Pelosi, or Harry Reid, but the profound inanity like those mentioned and millions more who put these fools there in the first place.
If you want your kids to have any quality of life left in the America like you have, you better figure out how to keep any influence of these fools completely out of your children’s lives. Private schools, walled communities with parents of like mind – keep this moral relativists a driveway’s length from your children’s personal life until your children are adults. The Left is a horrible influence upon the young, and the Left is on the wrong side of virtually everything virtuous. Your kids will end up much the better for it. Trust me…
One day, it might be required to completely secede from these fools. Be careful being too friendly, because one day you might be facing them down in a real battle and you don’t want these b&b’s to know anymore than they need to carry on a general conversation. Don’t trust them any further than you can throw them. They will attempt to hurt you one day. I guarantee that.
Never forget most of the problems in this country are entirely due to the Left’s amorality, lack of judgment and sense, cowardice, treasonous behavior, dishonesty, and self-centered nature.
Marxists and communists by another name. 😐
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By: Wayne Perram on July 16, 2011
at 8:27 PM
Noah,
I was a bit older than you when 911 occurred. The news I got about the events of it, as well as the events leading up to the US (Bush & Cheney) declaring war on Iraq were from the newspaper and the 6:00 news. Back then, news was news, and opinions were not counted as news.
Did we defeat Hussein/Iraq prior to demanding he allow inspections? If so, I was not aware of it.
Perhaps your recall of the events at that time are more accurate than mine. I really do not have the time or desire to look up the specifics. Basing my recall on “Fahrenheit 911” and its correlation to the news I did pay attention to gives me a much different viewpoint from yours. I must also admit again though, that my dislike for GW and my belief that the election of 2000 was flawed unlawfully colors my vision. At least I can admit that I am not fair and balanced, the way that Fox News claims they are.
(btw, although I disagree with your assessment of Wayne’s skills and intellect, I thank you for trying to tell him to be nicer. In that rather appeasing paragraph, you showed me that you are a better person because of the consideration and acceptance of others you are willing to show towards someone like me. It is the reason I usually say and mean “Namaste” to you when signing off. It is very difficult for me to “namaste” Wayne, though I do pray for him as I also chuckle. )
Regarding Gore if he were the President and my statement that 911 would not have happened is based on my belief of the 911 conspiracy. Too many little incidents support the conspiracy theory. Since you do seem to be the type that seeks the truth, one day, when you have the time, please watch Michael Moore’s movie and let me know which of his “proofs” are false, and which are true. “Bander” Bush? Joint venture business partners with the family? Assignment of Air National guard that day? [Poolman, I couldn’t really read the link you posted about the Coast Guard. The font was too small for me.]
One of my thoughts is why GW wasn’t whisked out of that Florida classroom and into a secured and safe bunker immediately. He had already heard (also claimed he had “seen”) of the attack on the first Tower before he reached the classroom. Yet, he fulfilled his commitment to read to the class and walked in to sit, and stayed.
My husband woke me up that morning after he turned on the tv. He said, “America is under attack!” As I watched the replays of the disaster, I prayed and thought that it was the end for the life that we were accustomed, and we would be at war. Surely, if the attacks were as much of a surprise to Bush & Co as they were to us, then he should have been swept away on Air Force One or some safe haven before even entering the classroom. I recall he was asked about why he didn’t get up immediately and leave after news of the 2nd Tower, and his response was he didn’t want to upset the kids. 7 minutes of stunned silence? Reminded me of OJ being driven slowly on Los Angeles highways with a gun to his head.
My vote for the greatest President of the 20th century? I would say President Kennedy (yes, the Liberal choice though I don’t always vote Democrat). I am glad to say that I am not old enough to have lived through the Roosevelts, Truman, etc. eras. Eisenhower was a man of integrity, I thought. The senior Bush? My conspiracy theory beliefs begin with him – “Family of Secrets.” Lots of associations, influences and coincidences that just happen to be unknown to most. If the power of the internet as well as the “dirt digging” of today were present during his term, I wonder where we would be today.
Noah, one thing we do have in common is our concern for our futures. I was scared and fearful during the Bush years. I still am. Right or wrong, I believe he really was the catalyst for this devastating economy. It doesn’t matter who though. We are in devastating economic times. Perhaps it is because of our antagonistic 2 party system and the changing of the guard every 4 or 8 years that we are in this predicament. Socialism or Capitalism, or something in between – which is it to be, and if it is to be one or the other, I would think it would take long term commitment to one choice for it to have a chance to succeed, instead of one party’s policies this term, and another party’s policies the next, managing to cancel out whatever progress could or should have been made.
And now I’ll get all spiritual and say that we as individuals need to do what we can to help ourselves and others, and we put our trust in God that it will all work out.
Namaste,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 16, 2011
at 6:33 PM
Milton Friedman was one of the smartest economists to ever live. Reagan listened to him and look what we got….
I had a college professor that made us study Milton Friedman all the way back in 1980 Pfesser. Hated him for it then – love him for it now.
Except for what good it will do when the floor drops out. 😡
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By: Wayne Perram on July 16, 2011
at 2:26 PM
Just blistered through “Debt, Deficits and the Demise of the American Economy,” “The Black Swan” (don’t bother) and am starting “The End of Prosperity.” Debt/Deficits is truly interesting; the inescapable conclusion is that the trillion-dollar “stimulus” and “bailouts” are precisely the wrong prescription – like trying to put out a fire with gasoline – and that the inflation monster cannot be controlled at this point. I am truly afraid we are going into a period like the Weimar Republic – a loaf of bread for a trillion dollars.
Interesting comment by the authors of End of Prosperity. “A few years before our dear friend Milton Friedman died, two of us were on a panel with him. He said that he was puzzled by a paradox of modern America. “The lesson of the last fifty years,” he said, ” is that socialism is a failed economic model and that free-market capitalism is a far superior organizing system. But our politicians and intellectuals seem to have concluded from this that what we need in America is more socialism.”
‘When including the interest cost to the (Bo’s) spending plan, the cost to taxpayers is more than $1 trillion – (which has failed to produce any significant upstroke in jobs). For about that amount of money we could have suspended the income tax for an entire year. Now that *would* have created millions of new jobs.’
We are in a world of doo-doo, my friends. A world.
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By: pfesser53 on July 16, 2011
at 2:05 PM
😳 Oh, damn!
I forgot the “p” after sum and added an unnecessary “it” after off in my last post. Sometimes life is like a bowl of cherries…
Noah, thanks for that post. I, for one, think the news today is mostly a narrative written to sway opinion. The events are generally real, but the explanation and slant is often prejudiced.
Sometimes the news reports these events before they even happen. That kind of gives me a skeptical view of the media’s “facts”.
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By: poolman on July 16, 2011
at 12:34 PM
Reads to me, if you’re having to make “small” monthly installments on a phone bill Puddles, you ought to work any day you can get it. 😀 What on Gawd’s earth is your free credit score Wizard? 82? The dregs…
——–
No need for me to discredit you Drip. You do an absolutely wonderful job on all of these boards you plaster that stupid screed of yours.
What are you dummy? A masochist, or something?
I used to think this was your lame attempt at self-deprecating humor. Then I realized you’re so dumb, you publish your egregious personal failures for the entire world to read. WHAT A MORON! 😆
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By: Wayne Perram on July 16, 2011
at 12:23 PM
poolman, I am sure there is documentation out there, I know it was in the news for about 3 weeks. At the time I was in some class or another in college that what was going on in the news for that semester was the topic of conversation everyday at the beginning of class, which is why I remember it so clearly.
As far as what is going on today in politics with the debt. I am all for the Republicans stalling things until spending is dealt with. Increasing taxes will only make this a long lingering death. No new tax should be allowed until we show you can be fiscally responsible and pay our own way. Anything short of that I say we are better to default than to continue to run our country into the ground. Revoke Messiah care, rework it and reintroduce it.
Wayne, if I might make a friendly suggestion. You make brilliant points and you articulate them better than 98% of the people on here. I think you and I are alike in a lot of ways. Where we differ is I am a reactive retaliator, and you are a first strike retaliator. Right or wrong I have no issue giving back when someone comes at me first. My point to you is that you make your points so well, and the vast majority of your arguments are so air tight you do not need to attack people personally. I think doing so detracts from many of the brilliant points you make. Your logic does them in far better than any insult you might come up with. Now if they chose to come at you and make it personal, then by all means verbally clean their clocks. Just my 2 cents.
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By: Noah on July 16, 2011
at 11:49 AM
***GUFFAW***
Typical Wane/Tex assumtion/comprehension skills. I generally work weekdays. Today is Saturday. Yanno, the day honoring your god. BTW, I already paid the phone folks off it in small monthly installments. You’ll have to try harder in discrediting me…
How do these folks survive to reach adulthood? It has to be our nation of artificially cushioned reality. Really a disservice to humankind.
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By: poolman on July 16, 2011
at 11:48 AM
I’ve noticed Puddles you like to swipe my lines. The more you hang around me, the more you parrot me. Should I be flattered? I thought an uneducated “drip” like you finally found work? What did that last? A day?
If anyone wants a good laugh, go read Poolman’s post at Rutherford’s blog as he shares the intimate details of a losing proposition for a life, and the exaltation of finally finding work. Academy Award winning comedy!
Robert “Puddles” Tilton, aka Poolman, couldn’t even pay his phone bill and welched on the bill like he did his mortgage for three years, the resident holy roller walking away yet again, letting everybody else on this board pay for it. But I’m on “his prayer” list? 😈 I’ll bet you’ve got a direct line to the supernatural Poolman. Unfortunately your line and buried and smells of sulfur.
I think I’ll add you to my “prayer list” too Al Capone. My first prayer for you is that you learn the lesson of “thou shall not steal.”
You talk a great game Puddles. Too bad you and yours can’t get away from the life to crime.
What a monumental phony. A perfect fit for Chatty Cathy’s Kitchen.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 16, 2011
at 11:21 AM
I would love to see Margaret and Helen’s take on what is happening in Congress now with the debt ceiling/Social Security/Medicare. They are the voice of reason, experience, and common sense that makes sense.
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By: PollyinAK on July 16, 2011
at 10:28 AM
we knew it had to happen…..
(drumroll)
Jackson Lee: Congress complicating debt ceiling because Obama is black
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/171807-sheila-jackson-lee-suggests-congress-complicating-debt-ceiling-because-obama-is-black
but ……..
Rep. Jackson Lee sued for discrimination
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/171585-former-staffer-sues-jackson-lee-for-discrimination
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By: uawtradesman on July 16, 2011
at 9:59 AM
Noah, any documented proof Iraq was shooting at our planes? I think that a false narrative that many believe.
Sally, Wane claims to be a “born again” Christian in the flavor of an Evangelical Baptist. Makes me giggle when I read the bulk of his posts. Actually he IS on my prayer list, too. He thinks he has the exclusive/elusive key to the “real” faith. Comic gold, really.
The USGS is an organization that is very beneficial. Personally, I have depended on their data for mapping the differing soil conditions in my area of work. I have found their information to be extremely accurate. So when I encountered this article based on their collected data following 9/11, I felt compelled to share. I have never seen so many deny FACTS to fit their own narrative. Politics aside, I really fear for this Islamophobic nation of ours. We are being played, big time.
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By: poolman on July 16, 2011
at 9:14 AM
Sally, I could care less if you read me. Really. Your pretentious “religious” talk is so empty and disingenuous, it could be used as parody. However, when I see you post a lie here, you’ll be called. If you want to continue to lie without challenge, you’ll need to run back to Chatty Kitchen with the rest of the blowhard liars like Princess Donna.
The decisions one reaches are a testament to the way one really believes. You and your ilk are an anathema to my faith, from your distortions, to your sophistry, to the organizations you lend support. Your faith is liberal politics.
Let Obama save you. He’s done so well for you so far. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on July 16, 2011
at 8:26 AM
Sally, young minds are fleeting at best. I doubt anyone has the power to capture their attention for long.
If there was someone behind the scenes directing Reagan, then I was completely fooled, however I do not believe this to be the case. I have read several dozen of his letters, watched many of his debates and campaigns, the man was the real deal. To be an actor is not in any way a measure to a persons intelligence. All actors are not by default dumb. Reagan has my vote for the greatest President of the 20th century.
When we first went into Iraq and defeated him, we left him with a defense force only, telling him he would never be allowed again to have enough weapons and troops to have what would be considered an invasion force. To that end Saddam agreed to have weapon inspectors come into his country who were to have unrestricted access. For a time he allowed them in and all was well. At some point he started to restrict their access and would not allow them into certain facilities. We then started flying our military craft over their southern region. He then kicked the weapon inspectors out and started shooting at our aircraft with ground to air missiles. The UN passed 2 separate resolutions insisting that Iraq comply and allow inspectors in, He again allowed inspectors in for a couple of weeks but refused again to give them access to certain facilities. Unable to do their jobs the inspectors left. The 3rd UN resolution was passed and basically stated, let us in or else. Saddam refused and continued to shoot at our planes. This went on for over 18 months.
At some point we have to ask ourselves do we support the UN and back their resolutions, or do we do nothing and have their resolutions become meaningless. Saddam had his own generals fooled into believing there possessed weapons of mass destruction. When they were captured, a couple of them offered to show us the locations of the weapons in exchange for not being charged with war crimes, imagine their surprise. We had a man deep inside Saddam’s organization. He told us that he too thought there were WMDs based on what Saddam had said. Later we learned that Saddam kept very tight control on information and kept his Generals at arms length from each other to make sure that they could not get together to compare notes.
Misinformation or not about the WMDs, he was in violation of the terms of his surrender, and in violation of 3 UN resolutions. At some point we had to do something to keep our credibility in the world. To fail to do so would encourage countries like North Korea to thumb their nose at us when pressured to behave.
At the time of 9-11 I was in my 30’s
I like Jon Stewart. I find him to be entertaining, but very bias. He has a goal in mind in everything he says and does and he does it well. I laugh but agree to disagree most of the time with his conclusions.
As for the outcome of the vote, everything went according to the law of the land. Neither candidate had any say in how it turned out. I am not aware of any laws being broken in the voting process.
Personally I rather enjoy a good conspiracy, keeps people thinking, and maybe some honest. I watched zeitgeist and think they made some credible points worthy of a response. Conspiracy is good for rooting out information and getting to the truth sometimes.
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By: Noah on July 16, 2011
at 8:12 AM
I like the Dandy Warhols. They are a Portland band who became a cult favorite of college students ten years ago and gained a following in Europe. Zia, the female singer said after Obama won that she felt safer and more secure with Obama winning the election. She thought our world would be better after eight years of Bush.
I wonder what she thinks now.
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By: James on July 16, 2011
at 7:16 AM
Honolulu Sally, I’m not trying to pile on, but you made a serious charge. Do you have proof Bush supported a tax cut because he thought it would appease the voters into letting him take us to a war based on lies? Can you document the charge? If I recall, the support for invading Afghanistan was bipartisan, and even Iraq was based on the fear of weapons of mass destruction. I don’t believe the economy had much to do with either war. At the time, almost everyone, including Saddam’s generals believed they had the weapons.
Michele Malkin documented the lies Obama told during the health insurance debate. According to a new book his mother, which he didn’t dispute, he lied about his mother’s fighting to get medical insurance help as she was dying of cancer. It was really about disability payments. In fairness, Obama’s memory may have played tricks on him, but on the face of it, he lied. Do you have similar evidence to support Bush’s lies about tax cuts?: And what about Obama’s cutting the Social Security pay roll tax. Was that just a ploy for his poll numbers, or did he honestly think it would help the economy?
Tax revenues correlate with economic growth, not taxable income.Tax revenues are a function of two variables–the tax rate and the tax base. Since 1952, the maximum tax rate dropped from about 90% to 35%. Even so, tax revenues have risen as a constant percentage of the GDP. It is about 18% adjusted for inflation. Revenues rose because Bush’s tax cuts stimulated the economy and created new wealth. The Clinton surplus was mainly a projection, and the recession which began near the end of his administration, 9/11, and the wars combined with more Democratic and Republican spending erased the potential surplus.
Thus, the tax cut did not create a deficit. Extra spending did.90% of the deficit resulted from over spending, and 10% from the tax cut. I cited a New York Times article discussing the fast increase of government revenue about 2004 and a 2007 article putting the unemployment rate at about 4.6%.
Its a shame schools don’t teach economics. Most of us have little concept about how our economy works.
I voted for Bush for two reasons, Al Gore and John Kerry. Thank God they did not enter the White House. We would have had 9/11, Gore or no Gore. Planning began during the Clinton administration. Ossama declared war against the West, and both Clinton and Bush did not fully understand the danger al quiada presented until after the attack. Remember they first attacked in 1993 during Clinton’s administration.
An historian found and wrote a book about Ronald Reagan’s notes to himself which he used to clearify his thoughts. They show he had something upstairs. He could think on his feet. ” Years before, Dutch Reagan announced sporting events for WHO in Des Moines, I think. They lost the feed, and Reagan announced most of a baseball game from from what he made up. Reagan had a few simple ideas, which he used for change.
A few weeks ago, my wife and I finally saw “Bed Time for Bonzo” on television.
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By: James on July 16, 2011
at 7:07 AM
Harry Potter in 3 D was awesome. It took a little getting used to at first. And then, it was fantastic. Rather sad to know it was the last show.
Wayne, I pray for you. Your twisting of others’ words as well as your cruel behavior reveal a mean streak that is best left alone. Don’t know if you are a religious man, but if you are, I hope He hears my prayers for you. And, adios. Your discourse is no longer read by me.
Noah, ignore the attacks. If you let them get to you, they win.
I am very glad to see “IMO” in your posts. I don’t agree with your opinions, but at least we can be honest that we are stating opinions, and we do seem to have different news sources.
I first heard about Rupert Murdoch 7 years ago in a film production school. He is quite a powerhouse. Owns much of Lanai – a very sleepy little island with 2 luxury resort hotels. When Bill Gates got married in Hawaii, he had the island all zipped up. Interesting bio – reminds me of that group of rich and powerful in one of Ayn Rand’s books.
I could never get over Ronald Reagan as president. He was an actor – a very good actor. I wonder if he was really the one in charge during his years as governor in California and as the president. If he was, he was pretty good, but I just felt like he was a pretty face being pulled by strings. (This is totally my opinion, so please take it as that.)
The war against Saddam Hussein? I have a different base of recall on that too. After 9-11, we were told that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. After much pressure, the US and the UN went in, I believe it was 3 times, to find those (they had “proof” from satellite photos) sites, but they were never found. Then, the US said to Saddam to get out of his own country, or else; and he refused. War was declared. (I forget when, exactly, but we then got our money so we could all go out and shop, hopefully for washing machines.)
How old were you then? The timing of this was right after 9-11, inferring that Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were in it together – but no proof of that or any other connection other than they both hated the West.
I can admire a person’s integrity, but if their actions result in the deaths of so many on both sides, and no exit strategy, then their integrity takes last place.
Did you ever watch Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911? Chilling. Made up? Perhaps, perhaps not. To my knowledge, no one has come up with evidence to disprove Michael Moore’s pictures, details, or theory.
Our electrician was a GW Bush supporter, and now a Tea Party man. We used to discuss the war, and his talking points went like this: “He talks to Jesus, so he is a good man. Those Iraqis moved the factories but they are still there. It wasn’t about the oil at all – you Liberals are just so stupid.”
Today, his tune has changed. He now believes Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld were in it together to stage 911 as well as bamboozle America into attacking Iraq for oil and riches (Halliburton, i.e.) He has even asked to borrow my copy of Fahrenheit 911.
In return, he gave me a documentary by Alex Jones, that I have yet to watch, which reminds me – I need to watch it.
You like Fox news, I like Jon Stewart. That is a pretty even draw, but you have to admit, Jon is one of the sharpest minds in the media world. Unfortunately for conservatives, Hollywood types are mostly Liberal.
The 2000 election being won by GW? Too many problems and conflict of interests – the last being the State of Florida with a Bush governor having the final decisive count. Then, say the Liberal bashers, if Gore were president, what would he have done after 9/11? I would reply that if Gore were president, 9/11 might not have happened.
Conspiracy nut? Maybe. But also, maybe not. And if not, I hope the truth be hidden for a few generations at least, for time softens all blows.
Namaste,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 16, 2011
at 4:17 AM
point made for me better than i could Anonumous. Thanks
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By: Noah on July 15, 2011
at 10:05 PM
And when do you get promoted out of second grade, dinky dork?
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By: Anonymous on July 15, 2011
at 9:17 PM
Anonymous , to come up with that opinion tells me loads about your education, or lack there of
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By: Noah on July 15, 2011
at 5:34 PM
Can anyone of sound mind imagine the depths of depravity it takes to formulate an opinion of Kansas from a magical movie called “The Wizard of Oz” made in 1939, and then use that “information” as “facts” about Kansas to use in a political debate? 😈
These Chatty Cathy pals that occasionally frequent here are an absolute joke and disgrace. Helpless….
No wonder an empty suit like Obama was able to win the Presidency…
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By: Wayne Perram on July 15, 2011
at 5:01 PM
Well, you finally said something I’m in complete agreement with – you’re certainly not brilliant. I don’t even think bright would qualify. Dim…as in Dimocrat. Good thing you didn’t bet. You would have lost, but being a lib, you’d surely welch on the bet. No matter…
The problem is Sally, much like Auntie Nag, you don’t know much of anything but what you’re spoon fed, pretend you’re worldly went you’re a sheltered rube, and you’re a bald faced liar as evidence by that debunked horseshit about Bush sitting there after 9/11 with his thumb up his ass. Even the teacher of the classroom has said as much and I would be more than happy to prove you once again wrong about that too.
Therefore, I’m not going anywhere and you can KMA about STFU. 😉
When you quit lying and masquerading as some wit, then maybe I’ll leave you be. You need to take that baloney back to Chatty Kitchen where it sells.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 15, 2011
at 4:52 PM
Ronald Reagan was an actor you dork. No more, no less.
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By: Anonymous on July 15, 2011
at 3:35 PM
Sally, was not a war based on lies IMO. When we first handed him his ass, he signed a surrender agreement and agreed to allow weapon inspectors in. For 18 months he did not allow them in, told his own generals that he had weapons of mass destruction, and tried to shoot down our own planes in southern Iraq. We had ample reasons to go to war with this guy and rightly so. He was a mad man who slaughtered innocent men, women, and children.
As far as the election being suspect, it was not. We have always used t he electoral college to pick our president, not the popular vote. While this is uncommon to happen it has always been this way.
As for why people voted for ol GW. Care to take a stab at how many people voted for the Messiah for no other reason that he was black? Happens all the time.
As far as your bias for Fox news, I know it to be unfounded. I watch them from time to time, watch their shows. To everything there is a perspective. They happen to be the rare bird in the media that gives a conservative perspective. People are so used to getting 100% of their news from the Liberal media they just don’t know how to deal when it is coming from the other side. Your generalization that if you watch fox you don’t check the facts is not what I have experienced. I have many conservative friends and they more than any other people fact check what they here before speaking on it, so much so it is not even a horse race. I think it is also foolish to take one mans word that he controls the minds of millions, just saying.
If I could wave a magic wand I would have us another Ronald Regan. The last President, or politician for that matter we have had with any sense of ethics or integrity. What I did like about Bush and loved about Regan is that they did what they thought was right. They didn’t care about poles. I may not agree with what Bush did a lot of the times but I respect the fact he was his own man and did as his conscious dictated. He wasn’t a John Carry who when you asked him what he thought said : I haven’t checked the polls today, let me get back to you.
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By: Noah on July 15, 2011
at 2:57 PM
First of all, I would like to clarify that I am not brilliant, do not like conflict, and I may have to post and run because my days are quite busy recently, and scheduled to get busier soon.
James – I still think (my opinion) that the tax cuts were done to appease the population – fool them – and lessen the outrage of going to a war based on lies. Stimulate the economy? Perhaps it did. It also created a deficit which occured when one spends far more than one takes in.
Noah, I really hated GW while he was in office. I never felt that he was qualified, the election was suspect, he was surrounded and influenced by his daddy’s henchmen, and whenever his vision comes to mind, I see him sitting in that Florida classroom with that look of “holy shit” on his face for 7 minutes after he was told the 2nd tower had been attacked.
My Republican friends that voted for him did so because he prayed daily, and “Jesus was his best friend.” If we were voting for the religious leader of the country (say like the Pope), then that would have been a valid reason. For the leader of the country, you would hope to have intelligence at the very least.
I must admit that my hatred for the man clouded my judgment of him. Watching Jon Stewart imitate his “heh heh heh” made me laugh and helped lighten my gloom.
GW was a likeable person – very sociable, rather simple. He did not take the office of the Presidency as seriously as he needed to. He was on his ranch more than in Washington. Maybe that was a good thing, or he might have given us more of his failed programs – the worst (IMO) of which was his “No Child Left Behind” educational reform act. The consequences of that act are haunting us today and far into the future with kids (and adults) that know far less than our generation.
America was already dumbing down, and with the rise of Fox News = those who do not question the validity of what they are told. Rupert Murdoch now controls the minds of adults. (In an interview circa 1997, when asked about the effects of MTV controlling the minds of our youth, Rupert replied, “I OWN the minds of the youth.”)
I don’t like the 2 party system either – especially the way they are today. However, it is what it is. If I had a magic wand and could have picked a past president, it would have been Ross Perot. I was much younger then, but what he said resonated with me. His bid was doomed because of the 2 party system.
Wayne, I won’t take your bet or bait because it really doesn’t matter. However, if you want discourse, then keep your cruel personal judgments to yourself or STFUAGA (the last 3 = and go away). I also do not check out links in posts of most people, unless I can trust the source.
I do not know much about Kansas – my idea of it is the home of Dorothy and her hardworking and close friends and family. The predominant “color” there is white, thus it is the opposite of Hawaii, where the predominant color is brown. People there live simpler lives, like Kauai.
Hawaii is very unique in how it views race and color. We make fun of others and laugh at ourselves. It is rather shocking to those from the mainland when they first move here, for we don’t use polite terms like “oriental”, and we have a lot of chop suey, in more ways than just food. Obama would be considered “hapa”.
It would take too long to explain the culture of race in Hawaii.
So, I will be off to a funeral, open house, and the 3D version of the Harry Potter finale.
Aloha, Namaste, Shalom,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 15, 2011
at 2:19 PM
Here Sally,
As you defend Auntie Jean (Shalom, salami, baloney) and your beloved Barack, here are the headlines for today:
I’ll take it you are capable of defending these too from paradise?
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By: Wayne Perram on July 15, 2011
at 10:21 AM
Sally, I changed my mind. A more mannered one Chatty Kitchen doll. Your defense of that imbecile Aunty Jean is noted. If you’re dumb enough to believe half the crap that nasty nag posts, who am I to argue? Play on Dream Weaver and bang away at Chatty Kitchen. Here, your ineptness will be challenged.
Funny, as you were mentioning my bad behavior, I was thinking how incredibly lame and naive the islands of Hawaii must be if you and Aunty Jean representative of the population. The real population must resemble a convention of multi-level trinket marketing.
Actually, I have only been to three of the Hawaiian Islands – the most popular of the three. Oahu fine as long as you’re not in the cesspool of Honolulu, Maui beautiful but crowded, the Big Island my personal preference. My twenty day tourism thing was more recent as an adult. I in no way claim to be an expert on Hawaii, other than what I’ve read. But my eyes don’t deceive me, and published census stats don’t lie.
International flavor Sally is based on more than two races or you being in the minority. But I need not visit once to know the published demographics and census information.
Plastic and only diversified because of the military and a large Asian presence of proximity to Asia – otherwise, your precious chain of islands a beautiful, backwater Pacific Island, much of the natural beauty like its beaches – man made from the favorable climate. If Hawaii were based on simple agriculture, you would quickly revert back to the stone age, floating in canoes and writing in petraglyphs. Like I said – Samoa. You’re 2,000 miles from the nearest mainland just for starters, and people can only eat so many expensive pineapples, mangoes, and papaya and some of the worst tasting tomatoes on the planet.
I say I know a hell of a lot more about Hawaii than you do about present day Kansas. And I’ll be more than happy to prove that if you want to play the game. We can start with the international manufacturing, and work backwards from that.
Also, wanna place a bet that some port city like Houston that actually produces something besides a good time far more “diversified” and “international” than any Hawaiian state you wish to pick Sally?
Say a hundred bucks right here on the board?
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By: Wayne Perram on July 15, 2011
at 9:56 AM
I think Bush was unqualified for the job. He was smart enough to realize he wasn’t and surrounded himself with people smarter than himself, not a tall order.
You are welcome to blame Bush for everything, but here we are 3 years into the Messiah’s Presidency, and at some point he needs to be held accountable for his actions. Also, Bush might have been in charge, but the Democrats were in charge of the purse strings.
January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee. . The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? Banking and Financial Services. Bush asked Congress 17 times to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy. Obama took the 3rd largest pay-off from Freddy and Fannie. Obama and the Democrats fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie. While it is nice and convenient to try and blame Bush for everything, we had a Democrat controlled congress that held all the money.
As for taking sides, we have to right now. Democrats are not known for reigning in spending, and we have to reign in spending. My hopes are to one day have a viable 3rd party to break up this good-ol-boys club. We have to clean house and make it so the congress is no longer the place where people go to become millionaires.
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By: Noah on July 15, 2011
at 8:16 AM
Yes, Bush gave billions to banks, and Obama approved. Our leaders were paniced at the time because they were afraid the fabric of our economy was within hours of ripping to shreds. It is a bad idea to make big decisions when you are afraid.
I didn’t like Bush as president, and I don’t like Obama’s performance either. Given the past couple of years, Bush looks less bad to me than he did.
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By: James on July 15, 2011
at 6:08 AM
Honolullu Sally, I like you for several reasons, not the least of which is your calling my skin armadillo like. You warned me of the circling wolves when I first arrived, You and Werner hoped I’d stay because you said the site needed people like me.
Last year, the name calling was so bad, that someone claiming to be Richard (?) the moderator wrote that the name callers, not I were in fact the trolls. Jean also organized an election to vote me off the site. NOP voted that I should stay. Some of the regulars were unhappy.
Read my exchange with NOP about taxes. She couldn’t prove her case, at least not yet, because she was arguing against history and rules of economics. The tax cut was intended to stimulate the economy not cater to the masses.
Our son works in Silicon Valley. Many computer people were training to sell real estate because of hard times, and all our son could find was temp work. Then, came the tax cut. The man who hired him told him to thank the tax cut.
Yes, economies are cyclical, but this recession is more than that. It is in part the result of a burst real estate bubble created in large part by Democrats, including the president. Republicans share the blame too.
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By: James on July 15, 2011
at 5:57 AM
Noah,
I recall GW Bush’s $600 check to everyone. I thought it was fool’s money and another way to deflect criticism about the war that he put us into. He began the snowball of debt that is now Obama’s elephant in the room.
I do believe, throughout history, when wars are waged, taxes are raised, and for good reason. To pay for the expenses of war. To lower the taxes, spend $1 billion per week on a war, and then also give us checks to go buy washing machines was irresponsible and not done out of love.
The worse possible thing that could happen to GW Bush was the collapse of the markets in September 2008, while he was still in office. If only it could have been delayed 2 months, he could be disassociated with the crashing economy that he played a very big part in.
GW also gave the banks billions of dollars – without accountability, just before he left office.
In this economic disaster that we live in, don’t you think we need solutions instead of party politics and finger pointing?
Do you ever donate to the political parties? I donate to both – $5 to the Republicans (and I don’t put a stamp on the return envelope) and $50 to the Democrats (with a stamp). I get surveys from both of them. The surveys ask my opinion about the other party, which I think is rather stupid. More than half of the Democrat survey also asks what I would rank of highest importance on many of the issues of the day, and to rank the perfomance of the President. The Republican survey just wants to know if I agree with them that President Obama is taking the country down the path of destruction and if I agree with them that all the other Democrats in office are failing America. Lots of yes, no questions.
I think party politics create divides that inhibit and/or prevent solutions. If I judged parties based on their surveys, I would say the Republican party likes to blame, twist, and get agreement. The Democrat party likes to get a grasp on what are the main issues, rank the President on issues, and slam dunk a win.
I am guessing you liked GW Bush as President. I disliked him as much as you dislike President Obama.
I probably won’t have the time to look over your 30+ broken promises, but I will say that something President Obama brought back to America was respect on the international stage. GW was a rich man’s son but behaved like a folksy good ole boy with world leaders. Obama was raised by middle class grandparents but behaves with much more class than Bush ever did.
Helen once said, “We survived Bush, you’ll survive Obama.”
Amen to that. Helen is a wise woman.
Namaste,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 15, 2011
at 3:14 AM
Sally, you might recall that when it came time to help the economy, Bush, as Republican, that you know, only loves the corporations, chose to write checks to the American people, because he felt that they knew better than anyone else how to help themselves. Obama, the Democrat, man of the people, of the little guy, when it came time to help the economy, he gave it to big corporations. IS that Irony?
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 11:03 PM
NOP, once again you make, really really odd statements…with no substance or insight of any kind so someone other than yourself knows what your talking about. You should learn kiddo no one can read your mind. Try to formulate a complete thought, even if it takes a few days to do so, and try your post again.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 11:00 PM
For the list of promises and all the facts to back it up go to http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/?page=1. Get a cup of coffee, some provisions and get comfy, it is a long long list of broken promises.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 10:56 PM
Man. when Fox tells you it is salami and you can’t even smell sh*t, you’re beyond reason. Be back in another forth night. Maybe Helen will grace us by then.
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By: No One's Puppet on July 14, 2011
at 10:51 PM
Anonymous, sorry to make a fool of you again, those 30+ promises are promises he made that he never attempted to make come to pass. Foot, meet mouth.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 10:46 PM
Wayne,
You do seem to have a problem and I really hope you only act this way in the anonymity of the internet and behave more decently in person.
You must be brilliant beyond comparison. In your 10 days here you know all about the history of Hawaii. Have you ever been to Kauai? Each island is very different from each other, and if you have only been here as a tourist, you will have very little concept of what life in Hawaii is.
So you saw 2 Blacks and no Spanish speaking Hispanics. Even if we don’t have as many of those 2 cultures here as in Houston (?), we are still a very diversified State. We have a huge military presence – but it isn’t just because of the kindness of the federal government. It is because of the proximity of the islands to anywhere in the Pacific – we are in a very strategic location. Tourism is huge here, and, in spite of all the buildings and plastic leis and skirts, it is still beautiful here. Would we be a vast wasteland without the two? I think not. Prior to, we were actually an agriculture based economy – but then, you would know that.
Me, personally, I love the tourists. I am grateful for the military. Those people you call locals here? That is where the diversity is, or is it just because they all look brown to you that they are one race?
Being haole here is different. It isn’t quite like being Black or Hispanic on the mainland (Stateside as the military might say), but something like it. Auntie Jean who you seem to despise and have “caught” is one haole lady that has a wealth of friendships and stories to listen to, if you feel so inclined. She is a tutu, an aunty. You earn that status.
Noah, a while ago, I looked over your 30+ broken promises, and wondered where you got the list. I do believe I listened to most of Obama’s campaign speeches and some of the items on the list did not make it to the top of what I remember.
So, being a Liberal, and a “Chatty Kitchen” regular, I must say I don’t think he can walk on water.
I also believe that being the President of the United States is the most difficult and demanding job on the planet. IF he did accomplish all that was promised in a 2 1/2 year time frame, he should be walking on water, and your Messiah moniker for him would be correct.
Bush and his tax cut after declaring war was appeasement for the masses, IMO. Rich people loved it and benefited the most from it. Real estate rocketed. Middle class people were living like money was never ending and we got addicted to name brand expense and things we didn’t really need. It was like a false sense of prosperity – too much too fast.
As with anything that goes up real fast, there is a correction, and combined with low tax rates, aging baby boomers, greedy and unscrupulous practices by financial institutions, export/import imbalances, a watered down dollar and a dumbed down educational system, we are facing the worst of times.
James might be in the best shape of all of us to weather it out.
Sorry for such a long post. Master Hong’s herbal patches on my back have energized me for a bit. I am off to an investment meeting now.
Aloha from my 78º F parlor,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 14, 2011
at 9:20 PM
Poolman….WTF…..are you watching Obermann again…..wipe the spit off of you and the think for once…..
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By: uawtradesman on July 14, 2011
at 8:57 PM
anonymous – asshat
nop…defend the tax cheating people Obama has working for him….
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By: uawtradesman on July 14, 2011
at 8:50 PM
Wane, you are definitely the master baiter. Almost as
sickslick as your sock puppet Tex. Whose hand is up whose? Oh, never mind.I’m not going to fall for your half truths, b, cos it wouldn’t be prudent…could get ugly. And that would give you the advantage. 😎
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By: poolman on July 14, 2011
at 8:35 PM
Excellent points Noah. Keep the truth posting! 😉
This nutless, genuflecting M&H pussy who has no name, forgets for a year Mullah Obama had a super majority in Congress and wasted his time pushing through a healthcare plan nobody understood and now nobody wants, a trillion dollar public giveaway that didn’t work, and after campaigning against the Bush wars and promising to close GITMO, doubled down on Bush Doctrine and left GITMO as is. The mendacity and selective memory of these feckless progressives is stunning concerning Obama and recent history.
He gave us “reinvestment” – Failure
He gave us “Obamacare” – Major Failure
He promised 8.0% unemployment and no more – Massive Failure
He promised the half the deficit, then tripled it – Epic Failure; That’s why we are to the fiduciary point we are now and now these parasites are trying to deny it.
He promised to fight the “right war”, then lost it while the death toll in Afghanistan rose 500% – Abject failure.
All under a Dim Congress that didn’t require one Republican vote to pass anything it wanted.
You hitched your rope to a slug Anonymous. Gird your loins and act like a man – even if you’re an M&H woman, man will still do. 🙂
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By: Wayne Perram on July 14, 2011
at 8:34 PM
Pardon the language, ladies.
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By: Anonymous on July 14, 2011
at 7:41 PM
Jeebus cribs, Noah. Drop the frigging talking points. If those “30+ promises” hadn’t been obstructed by the Repuglicans, you’d be b*tching about them being kept. You aren’t here for dialogue, a$$h0le.
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By: Anonymous on July 14, 2011
at 7:39 PM
We have another disaster besides the flood. An epic drought is spreading through the South and north into Kansas. We now have an excessive heat warning through Wednesday. The South has endured such heat for the better part of a month.
The Missouri River fell three inches in Omaha today, but seventy people were suddenly evacuated because ground water surged to the surface.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 7:23 PM
Puddles,
You can’t afford to make a mortgage payment in 2 1/2 years and walked sponge. You are an expert and textbook case of ignorance and another in a long list of M&H uneducated morons. Don’t give me your crap about knowing this and knowing that.
You don’t even know enough to know that one has to pay small business taxes which you didn’t do for seven years, you’re a frickin troofer, and one of the weirdest people on the planet. Your idea of health care is for your preacher man to pray for your wife’s spine and scold her for “not stepping out.”. Take a hike dimwit over to Chatty Kitchen, where you are comfortable playing beta male.
P.S. I’m perfectly aware of the history of Hawaii. It’s also 2,000 miles from the nearest piece of land. I’m also perfectly aware it would be nothing without tourism and Pearl Harbor. Period. Ever taken a good look at Samoa? Third world…that’s Hawaii without jet aircraft and large gray ships.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 14, 2011
at 7:23 PM
Puddles,
You can’t afford to make a mortgage payment in 2 1/2 years and walked sponge. You are an expert and textbook case of ignorance and another in a long list of M&H uneducated morons. Don’t give me your crap about knowing this and knowing that.
You don’t even know enough to know that one has to pay small business taxes which you didn’t do for seven years, you’re a frickin troofer, and one of the weirdest people on the planet. Your idea of health care is for your preacher man to pray for your wife’s spine and scold her for “not stepping out.”. Take a hike dimwit over to Chatty Kitchen, where you are comfortable playing beta male.
P.S. I’m perfectly aware of the history of Hawaii. It’s also 2,000 miles from the nearest piece of land. I’m also perfectly aware it would be nothing without tourism and Pearl Harbor. Period. Ever taken a good look at Samoa? Third world…that’s Hawaii without jet aircraft and large gray ships.
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By: textaylor on July 14, 2011
at 7:22 PM
Poolman, when I was stationed at Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota some cowboys beat up an airman. He called the base for help, and three barracks of medics went to his aid. They did a lot of damage and helped spark a movement to get rid of the base.
The government paid everyone in two dollar bills, and that ended the campaign to shut Ellsworth.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 7:17 PM
Sometimes raising taxes is necessary, but not during a recession with high unemployment. Most Republicans and some Democrats know this is not the time to take money from people who create jobs by hiring others or by spending more discressionary income. Such taxes create little wealth. They redistribute wealth others have created.
Taxes are often used to discourage behavior like smoking. In this case, higher taxes discourage spending and job creation. Companies like Exxon-Mobile don’t pay taxes. Their customers do. For example, an Australian airliner is raising the price of tickets to compensate for a new energy tax.
As I’ve written before, people like Rupert Murdoch and George Soros are immune to the proposed tax increase. They have shelters and don’t rely on wages as most of the potential subjects of a tax increase do. Instead of setting the limit at $200,000 or $250,000, charge a tax on something like $500,000 million. Maybe labor unions should pay more taxes or so called appolitical organizations which support one party or another.Even then if the government raised the rates to 100% on rich people, it would not be enough to pay for the deficite.
” Tell it to the troops gentlemen! Tell it to the elderly! Tell it to the sick! ” is demagogery. Even if the government defaults, it will earn enough in August to pay our creditors, the military, and Social Security.If we don’t stop spending so much money, there won’t be enough left over for those people. Social Security is a trust fund, so it must be near the head of the line.
It is also possible the fourteenth amendment provides for paying our debts, default or no default. I hope it doesn’t come to default, but Obama is trying to maneuver the Republicans into sharing part of the responsibility for a tax increase. He knows the Tea Party would have a fit. If he can get an agreement with few spending cuts and higher taxes, which will last beyond the elections, he knows he has a chance at winning a second term and winning a majority in Congress.
We are in such trouble, I think Republicans successfully calling Obama’s bluff is the only chance we have. This dispute equivalent to the Cuban missile crisis.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 7:09 PM
poolman, yes you do, you have a country to run into the ground.
No One’s Puppet you side has no room to talk about the vets and elderly. Check the 30+ broken promises to these very groups by your Messiah. Also, check my video linked above, we could take 100% of the profits from all the people you hate and it still would not pay for the Messiah’s attempts to turn this into a socialist nation.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 7:06 PM
Now that is an ignorant statement. Not surprisingly, however. I guess from a mainlander’s POV, having just done the tourist thing and without a knowledge of the politics or history behind this island nation, it is hard to get a sense of the “real” Hawaii. Obviously today tourism is important to the economy, but since it was colonized, the beauty and freedom of that place has slowly diminished. Oh, and the military… Who benefits more from that occupation/relationship?
It is so hard to load and comment on this looooonngg thread. So, here’s my hit and run, Noah. Maybe many of the “libs” have more important things to do.
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By: poolman on July 14, 2011
at 6:56 PM
Defending the tax cut, of the likest of Rupert Murdoch and Exxon-Mobile, is the highest purpose of Congressional Republicans, and their supporters here are willing to pretend that in anyway affects their own tax cut. Tell it to the troops gentlemen! Tell it to the elderly! Tell it to the sick!
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By: No One's Puppet on July 14, 2011
at 5:47 PM
That post was really insulting Sally. I can assure you Kansas City is far, far more diversified than Hawaii.
But first, let’s get something straight. Auntie Jean may seem really smart to you and the insipid libs with her cut and paste persona, but to me, she’s a blowhard and a pretentious buffoon. Of all the people on this board, lovely Auntie Jean is the very one I’ve caught in the greatest number of lies, exaggerations, and flat out propaganda posing as fact. I’ve noted that in this very thread.
But this comment can not go unchallenged about plastic Hawaii – of which all of the islands which would be a vast wasteland without either military or tourism, unless you’re into coconuts, coffee, pineapple, or papaya.
Sally, I just got back from a 10 day vacation on Maui and the Big Island. Do you know how many blacks I saw on my 10 day trip? Two. Know how many Hispanic faces speaking Spanglish? None. Two black faces and we were all over those islands. If it wasn’t for the naval base, that’s about how many black faces you too would see in Honolulu.
Here’s a typical Hawaiian Island makeup – tourists Asian, European and American White, served by locals who work two and three jobs to make ends meet, or the very rich, or retirees living frugally.
I don’t want to hear this crap anymore about “diversified” libbie land and its great tolerance. It’s one of the biggest lies going. You want to know a real “diversified” international town? Houston. Indians, Pakistanis, Muslims, Asians, large numbers of Mexicans and a million blacks….
Not Hawaii – Houston.
And Houston is not liberal mecca. So I guess my wife embracing Houston makes her a very, very special person of tremendous character. 🙄
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By: Wayne Perram on July 14, 2011
at 5:04 PM
Noah,
Fair enough.
However, on this blog site, no one writes the rules (except for Matthew who has very few of them). So, if some people like to zing in and out and you don’t like it, that’s what they do. Some people don’t like what you say or how you say it, and that’s what you do.
James and his armadillo skin has gained more response towards discussion than attack towards one because of their attack upon another.
Even though my past prejudices towards the Pfessor have made me very wary of his words, I quote “I think we have lost a tremendous amount by taking the approach of, “You liberals – blah, blah, insult, insult” and the same by the other side”. These are wise words. We have lost the opportunity to connect as decent human beings.
Take Auntie Jean, for example. She makes me laugh because of her wisdom and class. The insults are piled on after she makes one of her posts, and she just kind of glides along. Being a haole (white), and living on Kauai is different from living in Kansas and being white. For her to embrace her life there and be part of the culture on that island speaks volumes about the kind of person she is. She is smarter than most, and she has a heart of gold. [Kauai is like the Kansas of the islands – small town kind of mentality (hard to get accepted) but like polar opposites in predudices.]
Many of the other side will not get to know her as a person. I am richer knowing her.
You probably don’t want to know her, and maybe she doesn’t want to know you.
However, off topic or not, rather than losing a “tremendous amount”, grow a skin like James, but lose the generalities and insults. Accept that we all have our own “truths” and someone’s truth is another person’s trash.
Aloha, Namaste, and Shalom (and I am now off to Master Hong’s summer immunization event),
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 14, 2011
at 4:13 PM
James Wayne, I agree to a point, but I refuse to let myself consider people who I believe to be misguided to be enemies.
I hope things do not have to get much worse before you see that is exactly what we have to do. To be too Liberal, or Conservative, is a bad thing imo. Somehow over the years these two have been a balancing force and have been good for each other. Now we have swung so far left that we are in the middle of the greatest economic crisis our country has ever faced, ever. Having a child now, I think more so because I had a daughter, the first girl to be born in my family in 30 years, intensifies this for me. I have a desire, that I cannot find the words to properly articulate, to give her the best possible future I can give her. The future we are currently handing them now is one I cannot live with. We have an awful mess to clean up. We get one trip in this life and we owe it to our kids to make it the best possible place we can for them. That said we don’t have time to wait, to play nice, to haggle and compromise. Things have gone too far now to sit on the sidelines, or somewhere in the middle playing Switzerland.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 4:00 PM
Sally has my respect Wayne, agree 100% Some Messiah he turned out to be.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 3:51 PM
No One’s Puppet, this is what is the defining difference between us. I will gladly pay 20% interest or any other price if it means I am paying my own way here and now. I have a 2 month old that gets me up 3 and 4 times a night that is my primary concern. How you can get through the day knowing you are making life harder on our children by passing down to them our burdens is beyond me. The burdens of morality I guess.
As for your little mindless rant on James, I am amazed how you and yours vilify those who have found the American Dream, like it is a crime. I suggest you educate yourself a little with that video I posted before continuing to make a fol of yourself. We cannot tax our way out of this problem. Not maybe, we cannot, period. It is an impossibility. Your kind needs to wake up to the reality we have over extended ourselves and allowed Socialism to creep into our lives and our country and it till be the end of us if we don’t act fast. Capitalism and Socialism cannot coexist in the same house.
Wayne, you are right on all counts. You can pretend you are somewhere in the middle, but there are clearly two sides here. Pay your own way, or make our kids pay long after we are gone. My ethics will not allow for the latter, and I will defend it to my dieing breath if need be. There is no surrender, nothing short of total victory is acceptable. I am not interested in taking compromise. Liberals have lost their minds. To be where we are at today, still holding onto the fantasy that it will all just magically work out with the consequences we face is all the proof I need that these people are not in a little place I like to call reality. Since as Wayne stated, legality forced me to temper my natural instincts, I have no choice but to know my foe, understand them, and deal with them within the confines of the law.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 3:48 PM
Noah, I wouldn’t sweat this hit and run stuff. Sally isn’t one, but most of the liberals that post here are blatant cowards. Look how they ran off when facts and issues started being discussed. The chattering clan ran. No surprise, as they were getting hammered. There is no way in hell these “progressives” can defend their 2008 positions now, so they’ve reverted back to Bushisms – and even that isn’t working. So they’re left with disappearing and lighting poo on the porch, then running.
Obama and his buffoons are epic failures in every capacity. Senator Marco Rubio is right. There is not one facet of America that is not now worse off under Obama after three years.
Consider these drive-by posts a sign of desperation. Obama is toast, and with their entire self-worth invested in this monumental sham, these “progressives” aren’t dealing well with Zero’s obvious ineptness.
Remember, politics is the liberal religion. Can you imagine the depression realizing your little Obama god is a farce and a joke? Their world has crumbled. Too bad. 😀
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By: Wayne Perram on July 14, 2011
at 3:43 PM
Wayne, I agree to a point, but I refuse to let myself consider people who I believe to be misguided to be enemies. They think the same of me.
I was bitter and angry when I came home and watched what similar people did to the returning troops, but even more importantly how they created an atmosphere which led us to abandon the South Vietnamese who trusted us. They indirectly killed many people.
I have to admit when I read how John Murtha described the Democratic strategy to let the Iraq war progress without the surge and called it the “slow bleed,” I wished him dead. I didn’t like myself that day.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 3:39 PM
PFesser, with respect, the Liberals on this board have hundreds of posts to tell us who and what they are. You may see it as pigeonholing, I however think we have a plethora of evidence to back up everything I have stated and can say with some certainty that for the most part it is accurate. It would take to long to paint each one 100% accurate, but I bet I am better than 75% right on all of them. I would prefer to leave generalizations out of it but as they tend to hit and run, post and not respond, I am left with no other option than to lump them into one pot. Should one of them step up I would be happy to be directly engaged with them and their thoughts.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 3:36 PM
Honolulu Sally, I am afraid I will stick with my original position. The last several weeks is full of the Liberals on this board doing hit and run posts none standing their ground, none defending what they believe in any way. One pointless attack after another without merit. Check for NOP posts for prime examples.
As for not joining in yes it is your choice. However I am very suspect, and rightly so, of those who only chime in to personally attack, and offer nothing to contribute to further the discussion. To those my generalization is absolutely proven by what and when they post. They can post when it is in their favor to do so, but never when confronted with the truth. The most accurate portrayal f a bully and coward I have ever seen.
You have said nothing but your opinion, though none of it on topic. I see no possible way to take anything you said as an insult. I appreciate opposing points of view, that is why I am here. Do not mistake my aggressiveness to those who chose to argue unfairly or try to degenerate the topic with their pettiness as a sign that I am intolerant or that you should have to apologize for how you feel. I just chose to call people as I see it, rather than be gracious and let them slide, the latter serving no purpose IMO.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 3:31 PM
Interesting PFessor. I should read that book.
“The Law” makes me think of what happened after the Menshevic revolution when the Bolshevics took over. They expropriated the land because is owners were members of the proletariat class and unworthy thieves. The “People” operating Soviet land destroyed wealth and food production.
My wife and I are relatively poor, compared to some of our neighbors who own much more land than we. My wife and I also live poor and we aren’t the only ones. Our Escort and Taurus are 1999 models, and we have a 1991 Festiva, for example. In 1991, we had a negative net worth.
We all blend in, and most people don’t know how comfortable we are. Not every big landowner is rich. Some are “land poor.” A retired farmer looks like a half witted geezer in his ragged bib overhalls, but he bought a lot of Warren Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway stock when it was first issued because Warren lives in Omaha. He donates a lot of money to schools, for scholarships and anything else that suits his fancy.
His home town had no place to hang out, so he built a restaurant and hired locals to run it as they rented to own.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 3:28 PM
Our parents taught us how to survive the Depression, and my wife and I managed through the farm crisis when many didn’t, so NOP is right not to worry too much about my wife and me. We are survival prone, we know how to live on very little.
I do worry about many other people. They are like sheep to the slaughter without a clue of what could happen with a default or a path to Greece.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 3:05 PM
James –
Although all my life my father told me that it is honorable to work hard and become rich, I have always been aware of class envy – but I have never realized that people really would just come out and admit it without the slightest tinge of shame – in fact, in effect wearing it as some kind of badge of honor.
A little reading reveals that this has always been the case though – those who have worked and happen to have a little bit have always been the objects of envy by those who have not. I finished Bastiat’s The Law a couple of months ago. Although it was published in 1850 it could have been based on what we see here at M&H’s. Even then he talks about the danger of allowing those who have not worked and had success to subvert the government (which is, of course, nothing but raw power) in order to take by force the things earned by the producers and give it to them, the nonproducers.
Ah, as he might say, plus ça change plus c’est la même chose.
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By: PFesser on July 14, 2011
at 2:57 PM
Smoke blowing Noah. Hyperinflation is here due to Obama and interest rates are artificially low not to due to threat of default but our burgeoning deficit and printing funny money, weakening the dollar. NOP demonstrates the same magnitude of mendacity and hypocrisy as her messiah Comedian-in-Chief.
The unmitigated gall of the man now trying to blame others for his egregious Keynesian mistakes should be parody and is to those with an ounce of sense.
——–
Pfesser, I wish your reality were true, but let’s face it. Most of these liberal bums and sponges on this blog trashed, lied, made insidious accusations about George Bush for eight years and continue to do so. Many aided and abetted our enemies during war. They deserve no respect and will get none. I know you don’t like it, but I consider many of them the enemy. If legality allowed, guaranteed I would do something about that.
You simply can’t straddle the fence anymore and believe you can choose the cafeteria style fiduciary plan. There are two political worlds – and they are diametrically opposed. In its simplest form, you either believe government knows best or the citizenry know best.
And the only question you really have to ask yourself is who does it better? Public government or private enterprise?
Our federal government was intended to be very limited in nature by the Constitution. It has become anything but….anybody that believes otherwise is a moron.
An example. Originally Medicare was estimated to be about 2.5% of the federal budget – that was the original intent. It now accounts for more than a quarter of our budget.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 14, 2011
at 2:46 PM
I am not protecting anyone NOP,. How could I? I am just an Iowa farmer. The Bush tax cut was not a welfare program for the rich. It was a plan to revive the economy, and it worked. I have cited New York Times articles to prove it. A 4.6% unemployment rate in 2007 is better than anything we have seen since Obama became president. The tax cuts circulated more money through the economy which fueled spending and hiring. Obama’s stimulus law did the opposite.
My understanding of the Obama tax increase is it applies to individuals earning more than $200,000 or $250,000. Many of those folks are small business people who employ workers. The true rich like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet live on wealth they have already created. Better than taxing wages, the government should tax capital gains or stored wealth.
Yes, my wife and I are millionaires as are some of our neighbors, and we are proud of it. We endured a lot and were lucky to get where we are. However our wealth is in land, not cash. We are not “one of them” whoever that is.
I agree a default could be a calamity, but if we continue our present course a crash is inevitable.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 2:38 PM
Noah, if the country defaults, my guess is you will pay 16-18% interest on your business loan. Hope you like it, because loan money is going to be scarce and you will have to compete with the government for the little that will be available. James is still protecting millionaires and billionaires from giving up that welfare program George W initiated for them, but then James told us, he is one of them. Guess that is why, I can’t work up as much worry for him, as I do for others
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By: No One's Puppet on July 14, 2011
at 2:13 PM
Honolulu Sally –
I think we miss a lot by pigeonholing others – and pigeonholing ourselves. Everybody is complex; some have more liberal tendencies, some more conservative, but find the right stressor and anybody will express beliefs that are more like the “other” side.
I think we have lost a tremendous amount by taking the approach of, “You liberals – blah, blah, insult, insult” and the same by the other side. First of all, how did it become the standard that these two positions represent everybody anyway? There are hundreds of positions and these are only two. I personally like the libertarian POV a lot.
re: Ayn Rand: she never advocated not helping your neighbors. She was against having your government take your money (that you earned) by force and then give it to others of THEIR choosing, with no consideration of where YOU wanted it to go.
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By: PFesser on July 14, 2011
at 2:10 PM
Aloha Noah,
Speaking for Liberals, we didn’t abandon our hosts. That’s the kind of generalization that condemns without merit.
As far as truths and facts, as a Liberal, I tend to call them opinions and question the source of the facts. Each person has their own circle of experts, each expert has their own slant, each slant can be interpreted in different ways.
The graciousness or lack of concern regarding censorship from our hosts allows for all discourse, and if you want to talk amongst yourselves and others of opposing thoughts do not join in, it is our own choice.
Some people like to argue and fight more than others. I tend to enjoy laughing and being with friends more, and I avoid arguments if they become insulting and to no productive end.
Your take on economic issues are different from mine. Your take on our President is different from mine.
I know you are very worried about the future, especially for your young family. I worry about the future also.
The question I ask myself is what am I going to do about it. The Liberal in me also asks what I can do to help others.
To Ayn Rand fans, that is a big no no. With my neighbors and friends, it is a good thing.
Please do not take this as an insult for it is not meant as one.
Namaste,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on July 14, 2011
at 1:43 PM
I vote they do what they can to get an agreement without raising taxes. Even letting Obama sign a bill raising the debt limit will do some good if it saves us from default, and it will undeniably put his name on the deficite. Default will be bad, and it will take us into a deep recession.
The Obama administration is beleagered. You can see it in their faces and their actions. Obama’s script is the same as Clinton-Gingrich’s in 1995, and he thinks if the worst happens, public opinion will take him to a second term and decimate the Republicans. Ir Republicans cave, Obama wins because Republicans will share the credit for more spending and higher taxes. Desperation can make people do dangerous things, and both sides may lose the game of chicken.
This is the flood talking and my Air Force past, so I may not be rational. For those reasons, I also vote they hold their ground, even it means driving us into a depression. This has to stop, and now is as good a time as any to do it.
Alaskapi, if you are out there and read this, Time Magazine has an article about genetically altered fish.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 11:12 AM
Alrighty, hit and runs aside, the Liberals have abandoned their hosts (as Liberals do when faced with truth and facts) and turned the blog over to us it seems. So I guess we should talk among ourselves. With our country on the verge of default, do you guys thing the Republicans should give in and compromise or do we hold our ground?
Personally I vote for them to hold their ground. We opposed Messiah care not because we don’t believe there needs to be reform, but because we knew doing so would bankrupt our nation. I think giving in at all is just going to cause us to have a long, slow death. We need to cut back spending to maintainable levels, decide what programs we must keep then find a way to pay for them before we implement them. If we are to leave our children a future that anyone would want to live in, we have to stop shouldering them with our burdens and pay our own way now. In my humble opinion.
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 10:30 AM
Miltonwolf.com cites Germany as the miracle Obama will not see. No two recessions are the same, but while we flounder in the worst recovery since the Great Depression, Germany’s employment rate has returned to pre -recession rates. Germany is one country which may save Europe, but as long as the Democrats retain power in the United States, our chances are less good.
Our flood is another example of government tampering. The dams were built for flood control, but environmental, tourist, and shipping interests forced the Corps to change procedures. They said the manual doesn’t even allow for the two nuclear power plants which the flood affects.
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By: James on July 14, 2011
at 6:49 AM
Here it comes. Sadly we told you Libs and you wouldn’t listen. Now we are all going to have to pay the price for your arrogance/ignorance.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/13/moodys-considers-downgrading-us-credit-rating-amid-stalemate-over-debt-limit/?ncid=webmail1
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By: Noah on July 14, 2011
at 6:34 AM
We have cake in our freezer, and “they” can’t have it.
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By: James on July 13, 2011
at 7:07 PM
Inevitable Pfesser – unless we reduce the debt quickly. And that won’t happen unless entitlements are addressed. I don’t see anybody but Paul Ryan even speaking about entitlements – and he was immediately discounted and/or demonized when he tried.
The U.S. market will crash when (1) We lose our AAA Debt rating or (2) The dollar is no longer considered the global money of choice. Oil will skyrocket and the market will tumble in conjunction. However, I still think the Euro is in even worse shape. They may tumble together.
Obama now trying to play fiduciary moderate is such a joke, that hypocrisy isn’t a strong enough descriptor. The libs wanted hope and change – hoax and chains would be more like it. Justice says many of them will be the first hurt, though. When government crumbles, they’ll have no where to turn. I see little hope for soft landing for all but a few.
Let them eat cake. 😉 They’ve earned it.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 13, 2011
at 2:55 PM
I have been watching Europe, though I haven’t read the book.
I don’t think America is next because our economy is stronger,and it is in too many countries’ interest for us to survive in our current form. We have more safeguards to slow or minimize a crash.
Europe is like a crew of mountain climbers roped together as one or two slip. The rest hold them until they can regain their hold on the mountain. If more, like Italy or Portugal also slip, they will pull the rest over the cliff, and that might include us. It looks like a perfect storm ahead.
If we enter a thirties crash as, we might need a war as in WW11 to pull us out of it. I also believe we will face a more violent time than in the thirties when Communists and Socialists plotted revolutions and Wall Street business men actually attempted a coup against the president. Farmers also attempted to lynch judges several times.
I we survive whole, it will be because Obama and the Democrats lose the next election, and even then the outcome will be doubtful.
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By: James on July 13, 2011
at 1:41 PM
OT –
Has anybody been following the meltdown in Europe? I just finished Debts, Deficits and the Demise of the American Economy. The author, Tanous, has predicted this perfectly and the dominoes are beginning to fall. It looks like Italy is in a footrace with Greece to default first. After that is in full sway, America is next – not only crippled, but nearly mortally wounded by its debt service. Scary doesn’t begin to describe it. I am no alarmist, but I fear we are facing another 30s era crash, and almost nobody gets that it is happening.
Thoughts?
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By: PFesser on July 13, 2011
at 11:18 AM
Noah:
I don’t get it. Why do you feel compelled to answer someone who is obviously baiting you. It might be better to just let it pass.
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By: TiKal on July 13, 2011
at 10:44 AM
The last comment was mine.
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By: James on July 13, 2011
at 7:03 AM
Otto katz makes assumptions, so I will too. He knows little about basic economics.
The Corps of Engineers predicts the Missouri River will be within its banks by late September of October. Trapped flood water will remain much longer.
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By: James on July 13, 2011
at 7:02 AM
Otto katz makes assumptions, so I will too. He knows little about basic economics.
The Corps of Engineers predicts the Missouri River will be within its banks by late September of October. Trapped flood water will remain much longer.
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By: Anonymous on July 13, 2011
at 7:00 AM
What is it with these hit and run Liberals. Will someone lend these guys a set of nuts to pass among themselves?
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By: Noah on July 12, 2011
at 9:51 PM
otto katz That is a 650-800 catering bill there my friend not to mention everyone getting 2 paid hours for getting out early and an extended lunch. How is that not good in your eyes?
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By: Noah on July 12, 2011
at 9:06 PM
Otto Katz = asshat
there’s a lot of companies out there that will buy pizzas or subs for there workers if they had a good week…….are you one of those people that stick there hand out and want something for doing nothing…..
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By: uawtradesman on July 12, 2011
at 8:14 PM
“1 buffet lunch , short work day, on me paid 1 per month.”
Wow. So generous. A dime an hour per month you give them lunch. A short work day, they get to leave at 4.45 instead of 5?
So freaking generous.
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By: otto katz on July 12, 2011
at 5:11 PM
Ok I can see I am probably not going to get a response, just another hit and run with no thought behind it. Are there any Liberals able to articulate their point of view and debate it? That said.
Anonymous , your posts tells me two things. #1 you are not and have not been a business owner outside a lemon-aid stand. Second you do not think things through when making decisions, a common trait with Liberals. Do what feels good, consequences be dammed.
First off I will answer your little troll and say I treat my employees very well. 1 buffet lunch , short work day, on me paid 1 per month. I have taken a major pay cut as owner so that I did not have to lay any employees off.
Now to your short sightedness. When I described what I do to decide if I am going to hire might sound heartless to you, but it is just the opposite. You and your kind are like hapless kids who we business owners have to look out for, in spite of yourselves. I take the time to make these decisions for the welfare of my business, which in turn is for the welfare of my employees. I feel I have a responsibility to those I employee to give them as much job security as possible so they can dependably take care of their families. To that end I have to hire and take care of the companies bottom line in a responsible way. If I did things by Liberal thinking, and hired when it made me feel good, I would not be in business very long and a lot of people would be out of work.
As far as this link you made. All he did was present how business works in the real world, ie supply and demand, then said this proves his point. The point is he made no point. He plays with semantic points, shuffles the cards a little, then tries to say he proved something. Not sure why you linked this as it really only shows that you didn’t have a point so borrowed from someone else.
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By: Noah on July 12, 2011
at 4:01 PM
PFessor, it is 72 with a shower. We have had an inch of rain, mostly from a borderline severe thunderstorm this morning. Parts of northeast Nebraska and southeast South Dakota had radar estimated 4 to 5 inches of rain. It is our first good rain of the month.
The rain will bring the river up, but probably not as high as it was two weeks ago. ( Two weeks ago, Omaha’s river water measured about 36 feet. Now it is about 34.8 feet and may reach 35 feet or so before falling slightly again. Flood stage at Omaha is about 29 feet.) However, the Corps of Engineers unexpectedly announced they are reducing the water release from 160,000 cfs to 155,000 by August 1 and down to 150,000 later. That will help. The flood has stabilized and water on our flooded land has dropped about a foot since last week. Water across the road is retreating. Surviving levies are holding for now.
That heat should be here by Friday and it may be hot and dry for the next two weeks at least. Evaporation, as you guess will remove some of the flood water. Crops will be using a lot of water, and that will help slow the rise of ground water. We will be flooded through September or October, but the heat and reduced water releases will probably prevent any more roads, fields or buildings from being innundation. Right now, we have more good news than bad.
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By: James on July 12, 2011
at 3:28 PM
James –
We are seeing wx reports of >100 degree days in Oklahoma. Are you getting that kind of sun and if so, is it helping drop the water level any?
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By: PFesser on July 12, 2011
at 1:18 PM
Anybody using KKKos and “Screw Um” Zuniga as source needs to stay anonymous. Mein Kampf not available for a quote? 🙄
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By: Anonymous Too on July 12, 2011
at 11:56 AM
Ok this post seems to be entirely based in semantics. Ok before I go into depth on this article, I want to know two things. Is this a hit and run or do you intend to respond to a rebuttal, and do you believe what this article states, because if you do I will take you to task on this.
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By: Noah on July 12, 2011
at 11:30 AM
While I Take the time to read this post Anonymous, would you care to elaborate and give your own point of view to what you meant. Your one liner didn’t give me much info into your opinion. I would hate to think you don’t have an opinion beyond what others tell you.
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By: Noah on July 12, 2011
at 11:18 AM
Noah
Time to start treating employees as humans, not as tools.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/11/993570/-Boehner-and-the-Job-Creators-zombie-myth:-Time-to-stake-it-cold-dead?via=siderec
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By: Anonymous on July 12, 2011
at 10:57 AM
So Bono is a lobyist. He is also in trouble with some fans because the group has sent part of their business operation to Holland to escape the high taxes he thinks others of his countrymen should pay.
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By: James on July 12, 2011
at 9:56 AM
Poolman, we have not reached the bottom, and Democrats are leading the race.
“And what I’ve tried to explain to them (Democrats) is number one, if you took all of numbers than Medicare in particular will run out of money and we will not be able to sustain that program no matter how much taxes go up. I mean its not an option for us to just sit by and do nothing.”
President Obama at his last press conference.
Democrats promised Obamacare would save Medicare, and an ad showed Paul Ryan pushing an old lady off a cliff. They did nothing until Repubicans, enabled by the Tea Party, forced them to pretend to be concerned. Once in a while, Obama tells the truth when his teleprompter goes on vacation.
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By: James on July 12, 2011
at 8:11 AM
“The last thing you want to do is to raise taxes in the middle of a recession because that would just suck up–take more demand out of the economy, and put business further in the hole.” Obama in 2009 according to Betsy’s Page.
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By: James on July 12, 2011
at 7:47 AM
Noah, the liberals will tell you how they think higher taxes will help the economy but reality demonstrates how Obamanomics works.
We do need higher taxes in ways that don’t hurt job creation, but Democrats (mostly) have scammed us before. “Just raise taxes and then we will reduce spending.” Once taxes go up, the incentive to reduce spending is gone. We need to reduce spending first and then worry about taxes.
Too many politicians are playing politics, and that includes our president.
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By: James on July 12, 2011
at 7:36 AM
Wow. This was a long trip. I guess I found the bottom. 😎
HELLO HELEN!!! Tell us what you think. Really. We are anxiously waiting a bit of your wit and wisdom. Let us know you and Margaret are all right.
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By: poolman on July 11, 2011
at 10:10 PM
Are you kidding?
That protected turd is a living testament to one joke after another on various other blogs…do you know how many yuck yucks Chatty Kitchen has given many of us? One lib blog of running the nags off was enough to prove my point Anon.
All of you are spineless, clueless hacks – no danger except you vote. That’s a big danger as potato head for President proves.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 11, 2011
at 5:11 PM
So I’ve been giving this a great deal of thought and maybe some Liberal can explain with their version of Logic how increasing taxes is going to (A) improve the economy and (B) reduce our debt.
To (A) I know as a business owner when my bills go up I decrease my spending and expenses. Spending would be the money I put into the economy and expenses among other things is hiring employees. To the second point on hiring, I take in all the factors of increased production and profit and weight that against the additional cost an employee brings to the table. If I don’t meet a certain margin of increased profits I do not hire. Added taxes raises that bar and makes it less likely I will hire.
(B) Our Debt. If the Messiah proposes no new spending, by the end of his first term in office we will be $5 Trillion in debt. Bush did not create this much debt in 8 years in office. So I hear Libs asking for more taxes. When Regan was in office, he cut taxes and doubled the amount of revenue the government took in after suffering through the Carter years. He created 21 million new jobs. A more recent example, Canada went down this same path with us over the past few years. They reached 10.1% unemployment. They did a much more conservative “stimulus”, roughly 1/3 of ours, and are currently about 7.4% unemployment while ours continues to rise. Less debt = better prognosis for the economy. Two working examples in action.
That said, the debt must be lowered. 2 choices. Cut spending or raise taxes. Our economy is still in the crapper. If you think raising taxes is the way to go, explain to me how this will (A) not hurt the economy, not only not hurt it, but show me how it will help it, because it is in dire need of help right now, and (B) show me how this will fix the debt. I ask (B) because I relate this to a sinking boat. You have water coming in at 5 gallons a minute, and you request a sponge. The sponge manages to take out 1/2 a gallon a minute, so you have effectively slowed the rate at which you are sinking, but you will still sink at the end of the day.
Show me how the currently proposed taxes will stop our ship from sinking. In my humble opinion it cannot, I offer into evidence the above video I linked a few days ago that shows taking everything from everyone cannot pay for even 1 year of our current spending. If we scrapped Messiah care we would not even have to worry about raising the debt ceiling. Problem solved.
Liberals want to be fair. Currently 25% of Americans pay almost all the tax burden. The bottom 50% pay nothing or almost nothing. I hope at this point you can see where the logic in all of this starts to fail me. I see contradiction galore and would surely love for anyone who truly believes the Messiah has us on the right path to step up and show me, logically and mathematically, how this is going to work and how our economy will recover because of it, not in spite of it.
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By: Noah on July 11, 2011
at 4:24 PM
bono(r)’s main charity
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314543/Bonos-ONE-foundation-giving-tiny-percentage-funds-charity.html
‘We don’t provide programmes on the ground. We’re an advocacy and campaigning organization.’…….does this mean lobbyist? just what we need in DC is more lobbyists….
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By: uawtradesman on July 11, 2011
at 2:48 PM
No Ones’ Puppet, I will try again. I am not comparing myself to Hatians or AIDS victims.I am only arguing that our region is in the middle of a disaster.
Imagine a basketball team and a bowling team. Each shares similarities with its competing athletes and fans. One can compare their commonality. but they are different sports and beyond a point their differences are too great for meaningful comparison. They are apples and oranges.
Both sports also tend to have a different fan base. Suppose Obama and many entertainers like basketball and have little regard for bowling. They will watch basketball games and ignore bowling. Our flood and tornado zones represent bowling. We get along without the basketball fans, but we notice.
This about our differing opinions is just for fun:
“Well I’m not parylized
but I seem to be struck by you
I want to help you move
because you’re standing still
if your mind matches what your words can do
you’d probably move right through me
on my way to you.”
We just got home. I minimized this page on Saturday and have no idea what or if anyone has written something since then.
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By: James on July 11, 2011
at 12:03 PM
Dear Helen,
So sorry to hear of Harold’s passing. I have, after a long absence, decided to see if you posted and was saddened to read of your loss. He must’ve been one smart cookie to have married you, and hope that his memory comforts you. You are truly a great influence on me and have made me realize that my opinions and beliefs are not to be silenced and that I should not be ashamed or embarassed to express them. You are one of many women who have gotten us to where we are today, No matter how small the steps, we should only go forward and you have encouraged me to keep going. Thank you so much for being who you are…peace and comfort to you and your family…Michelle Smith
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By: Michelle Smith on July 9, 2011
at 9:12 PM
Thanks for the reminder, delurkergurl.
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By: James on July 9, 2011
at 11:27 AM
I showed your posts to my wife, and she was overwhelmed. You are amazing, just to offer. This was totally unexpected.
I understand NOP. As I wrote before, we are lucky. The unemployment rate in Nebraska is about 4.5% and in Iowa as a whole, 6%–maybe lower in the West. Your doubling your check to your local food bank means a lot to me. I knew I had good reason to like you. I knew you were joking, and my thinking it was funny shows we are more alike than you know.
Pfessor, the three churches order supplies from the Heartland Food Bank in Council Bluffs. They pay per pound for what is ordered, and the company charges a hauling fee based on the size of the load. The truck comes up once a month. In between, individuals make runs as frequently as once a week for small items like bread and milk. Sometimes that food is free.
The locals pay about $.16 on the dollar for supplies. So, roughly $5.00 will buy 25 pounds of goods. My wife thought a check would be more efficient, and it would avoid postage.
The Mondamin, Ia church treasurer suggested sending items like peanut butter or canned goods through UPS or Fed Ex to her house care of the church if someone doesn’t want to send money.
The Food pantry is short of peanut butter and cereal now. The Boy Scouts recently donated toilet paper. They are part of the same group who survived the Little Sioux Scout Ranch tornado three years ago. Cleaning supplies will be important after the flood subsides in two or three months.
Mondamin United Methodist Church
201 Pine Street ( you could add PO.; Box 163, but it will probably get to Betty anyway)
Mondamin, Iowa 51557
Write on the check memo “To the Mondamin Food Bank (or Food Pantry. )
Thanks to the flood, the group is far-flung. The checks eventually go to the head treasurer now in Council Bluffs about forty-five miles away. Consequently deliveries are irregular, and a check might not be cashed for several weeks. Eventually, someone would send a receipt with an explanation of how the contribution was used. If a check bought bread and steak, we would tell you.
Another administration problem is the minister for our three churches moved on July 1, and an interim lay leader is replacing him for the next few months. The minister’s new church is in a flood zone, so while he has the new job, he is still stuck in our parsonage rent free.
Most customers are living on unemployment checks or suffered tragedy. One family’s home burned down. Others have been dislocated by the flood. In May, the food pantry helped 584 people. The June number was 560 because some of them temporarily moved. A grant and private donations pay the bills. My wife has just begun to work on the grant report. She has been delayed because people with the information had fled the flood and she couldn’t reach them. They like the customers show up when they can, and they are hard to reach with only cell phones.
The grant was for Harrison County, but the need was so great, the churches began serving southern Monona County bordering on the north.
I feel like Sally Struthers. “Only ten dollars will pay for a child’s college degree…”
It is a good day, the flood waters are slowly subsiding until the next big rain, and after I told Betty about your offers, she said “I love you sweety.”
I will be gone the rest of today and much of tomorrow. Thanks again.
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By: James on July 9, 2011
at 11:25 AM
Another benefit to writing checks is that if your employer has a matching gift program, your gift can go much farther. Mine matches dollar for dollar, for approved non-profit organizations. That covers most non-profit organizations and crisis funds. Just thought I’d remind everyone again because it’s free money people often forget about.
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By: delurkergurl on July 9, 2011
at 10:28 AM
James, I was pretty much kidding about sending you supplies, but hubby and I will, in honor those in your area who have been booted from their homes and hearth by the flood, by doubling our check this month to the local food bank. I think you understand that we virtually have hundreds of thousands of people locally who have been going through their own disaster for as long as four or five years, now. We write a check, so that the food bank can buy in bulk, and our money will go further.
Just glad, you can look ahead to better days and quit comparing yourself to Haitians and orphaned African AIDs victims, Bono’s main charities.
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By: No One's Puppet on July 9, 2011
at 9:47 AM
By: jsri on July 6, 2011 at 2:41 PM
“You will also be glad to know that these will most likely be my final words on the subject.”
Sure they will. 😉
You didn’t delete that bookmark, did you? Did you ever mean what you say – maybe at some earlier point in your life? Just curious.
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By: Anonymous on July 9, 2011
at 7:23 AM
Hey James – I just had an idea:
How about you give us the name of your church, with address and contact info, etc. and those of us who are so inclined can send items to help with flood relief? You know, so far this blog has just been a venue for mental masturbation; maybe we could all actually accomplish something.
We could all send a little note with our M&H handles and you could acknowledge it here? What do you think?
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By: PFesser on July 9, 2011
at 6:21 AM
James –
Can you tell me where and how to send supplies? And what do the people need? I find the jokes offensive when folks need help for real. At the risk of sounding like some others I think that’s the difference sometimes between the talkers and the doers. Let’s see how many from the Chatty Kitchen send anything.
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By: pfesser53 on July 9, 2011
at 3:58 AM
Noah, if the economy doesn’t improve soon, those broken promises will be the least of Obama’s worries. If too many things like the Gunrunner episode are uncovered, the press might eventually turn on him as it did Clinton during the Lewinski scandal.
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 11:09 PM
Thanks NOP. I realize your are joking in a way to remind us of the bad conditions after hurricane Katrina, and they could also apply to the tornado victims.
I don’t care because my mood is too good. The flood has stabilized, and broken levies downstream have helped lower the river level by a foot. We will be safe until and if another heavy storm dumps a lot of water on us as it did nearly two weeks ago. Had another hit a few days after that one, water would have over topped the drainage ditch banks and suddenly given us a lot of trouble. It would also have been bad because we don’t have flood insurance.
Seriously, our food bank could use the food. Many of the volunteers have left, and recipients are scarcer because they have also moved or can’t get to the church because of bad roads. The suppliers have not been able to provide the variety they did because of travel and economic problems. About the only meat they are getting is chicken.
MRI’s might be useable. The other thing I would have to check on would be what if anything families living in camp grounds because of flooded homes or problems getting to their jobs might need. Those places are mostly seventy or a hundred miles down stream. Homeless flood victims are also living in the dorms of a defunct college in Blair, Neb. Church women prepare meals for them, but I don’t know if the families are actually broke.
Our dentists and doctors are still around, though they have sometimes been in different towns. We really need Arbies and Pamida Without Borders, because both businesses have left for the duration. The closest Arbys is in Omaha, and we have to take a detour to get there.
I might put cardboard from a large box and tape Obama’s picture on it. It should make a suitable shield for any Corps of Engineers reps who visit the neighborhood. People are furious.
Even FEMA is mad at them. They told me the economic damage will rival the Mississippi River flood of three years ago, and may approach the cost of hurricane Katrina–not in lost lives or property damage but in economic damage. He reminded me the flooded Yellowstone River valley had an oil spill last week. Cleaning that costs money too.. FEMA will have to review its flood plain manual. That will also cost money.
One town is a ghost town which still doesn’t have flood water for a variety of reasons. So far, I have been able to tell the Corps and FEMA, “I told you so” in a nice way, but the neighbors want to tar and feather them. This has been a stressful month. Everyone blames the Corps of Engineers for the two thousand mile flood. The locals who blew a dike to save three towns also created a sensation. People in our county were grateful. People down stream wanted to arrest them.
You wouldn’t have a few Obama posters would you? One picture may not be enough. Besides protection for the Corps of Engineers, they might be used to frighten wild animals taking refuge in towns.
As the World Herald wrote “The work hasn’t ended yet, and the crisis is by no means over. But it is pretty evident that there will be no slackers on the front lines in the battle against the swift waters. Bless every one of them,”
You are obviously not a slacker either, and your sense of humor seems as twisted as mine. I thought your post was funny. From what I know of you and now, this little joke, I realize you and I are more alike than I thought. That should scare you.
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 10:57 PM
Just remember to sign the back of the photo with the 30+ broken promises to the people Obama no longer needs to care about since winning the election. Poor saps actually believed Obama would follow through.
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By: Noah on July 8, 2011
at 10:06 PM
James I like you too! That is why I am sending you:
Canned food.
Baby food & formula.
Can openers.
MREs (Meals Ready to Eat – military rations).
Bottled water in gallon jugs.
Disposable diapers.
Anti-biotic ointment (i.e. Neosporin)
Diaper rash cream.
Condoms. Lots and lots of condoms.
Used clothing.
Sleeping bags.
Toilet paper
sanitary napkins
bandages
tooth paste and tooth brushes
combs
hemorrhoid cream
A new computer chair
And my husband has a 3″ x 5″ photo, of President Obama, suitable for framing, I’ll send you too. Anything else you need, like Doctors Without Borders or something?
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By: No One's Puppet on July 8, 2011
at 8:04 PM
Why would you want to get in your ass?
Sounds pervy to me…
Now that I think about it…haven’t tried THAT one…hmmm…..
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By: Pfesser on July 8, 2011
at 7:13 PM
Galls yer ass that you can’t get in there doesn’t it? HAR HAR HAR
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By: Anonymous on July 8, 2011
at 3:28 PM
HAR HAR HAR! Pull string #3 of 6 on the Chatty Cathy Kitchen doll of replies.
When in the heck are you libs going to get some new comeback material? It would be far more fun if we could get some lefties in here (not the cowardly anonymous ones) that have a decent sense of humor and some working post synaptic neurons, instead of a list of mothballed reflex retorts.
You gals and gays are as stale as Obama’s one liners…
Need some help? Baahhhhh…
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By: Wayne Perram on July 8, 2011
at 2:38 PM
HAR HAR HAR! Pull string #3 of 6 on the Chatty Cathy Kitchen doll of replies.
When in the heck are you libs going to get some new comeback material? It would be far more fun if we could get some lefties in here (not the cowardly anonymous ones) that have a decent sense of humor and some working post synaptic neurons, instead of a list of mothballed reflex retorts.
You gals and gays are as stale as Obama’s one liners…
Need some help? Baahhhhh…
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By: textaylor on July 8, 2011
at 2:37 PM
Wayne’s off his meds again.
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By: Anonymous on July 8, 2011
at 1:56 PM
I love this video, i luv this video….omg I like this video. Might be old news for some of you but I just found this 2 minutes before posting it here, and I must say….I love this video.
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By: Noah on July 8, 2011
at 11:51 AM
After my conversation with FEMA, I am even more convinced of my opinion that Obama and entertainers are hyprocrites where our region is concerned. The Obamas are canceling their vacation in Montana. If they went later, it would be another convenient opportunity for a symbolic view of the flood as he could have done in Iowa. Would he take the time? I doubt it.Bono won’t be saying much either.
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 11:41 AM
alaskapi, “Take it however you want.” I take it as a complement, and I send it back to you.
I am interested in what you wrote about the similarity between rural-urban attitudes in our area and yours. My conversations with Canadian, British, and Brazilian farmers convinced me we have more in common with each other than many of our own countrymen.
My MA thesis showed a rural-urban conflict on the Great Plains in the nineteenth century. Towns needed irrigation more than farmers. Farmers could move, Towns couldn’t.
I just called FEMA. The man told me this flood will cost more than the Mississippi River flood of three years ago. It may rival Katrina for the people displaced and property distroyed. I reviewed what I had told FEMA last summer and expected to be dismsed out of hand.The man told me this flood is a game changer. Because of the flood, FEMA will review definitions and procedures. They might even define I 29 as a dike.
I was surprised at the vehimous way he as an employee of a government agency criticized the Corps of Engineers, another agency. He said this man-made flood should not have happened on the scale that it has. It is also possible next year could be a repeat performance.
I would also be very happy if we didn’t discuss politics most of the time. Maybe music…
I am competitive, and regard blogs as a form of verbal combat with winners and losers.
Speaking of that, Wayne, You would have been good on a college or high school debate team. You have a way with words and thoughts, even if you are sometimes like a one man demolition team.
Uawtradesman, thanks for the links. The one suggesting we may someday eat Grandma was especially interesting. So was another article about a flat earth map.
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 11:29 AM
How ironic. As I was burping and farting, it occurred to me your lack of content, strange subject matter, repetitious cut and paste pertaining to material nobody gives a damn about but you, and incoherent style give me a great deal of gas.
As to your patience, well….it’s a virtue. It would only follow being a virtue, you would have none. Don’t sweat it – you’re a lib and it’s expected.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 8, 2011
at 11:07 AM
alaskapi, “Take it however you want.” I take it as a complement, and I send it back to you.
I am interested in what you wrote about the similarity between rural-urban attitudes in our area and yours. My conversations with Canadian, British, and Brazilian farmers convinced me we have more in common with each other than many of our own countrymen.
My MA thesis showed a rural-urban conflict on the Great Plains in the nineteenth century. Towns needed irrigation more than farmers. Farmers could move, Towns couldn’t.
I would also be very happy if we didn’t discuss politics most of the time. Maybe music…
I am competitive, and regard blogs as a form of verbal combat with winners and losers.
Speaking of that, Wayne, You would have been good on a college or high school debate team. You have a way with words and thoughts, even if you are sometimes like a one man demolition team.
Uawtradesman, thanks for the links. The one suggesting we may someday eat Grandma was especially interesting. So was another article about a flat earth map.
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 11:01 AM
James- not so disappointed now- this is more what I have come to expect of you… rightly or wrongly, fair or unfair- I have come to expect a fundamental acceptance of others from you
“I often disagree with her, but I also like delurkergurl. She can be mean, aggressive, and wrong, but so can I. Underneath it all, I think she is a sweet person.”
You can take it however you want.
PFesser-
I have appreciated your attempts to clear the decks of past “failures to communicate” but accept some folks will have a damn hard time getting over words slung in F… You moments- it’s normal and it’s human.
I am not a competitive personality and much of my cultural background is decidedly non-competitive so the idea that one loses by stepping away from a non-productive set of conversations doesn’t compute.
Aside from being interested in what other people think, whether I agree with them or not, I most recently have spent time here in search of ideas for reframing conversations about the rural /urban divide here at home. I think James would/will be surprised to find that his remarks about the Corps and his own on the ground knowledge of his area have tremendous similarity to traditional knowledge projects and flaps with the state here but I don’t see any interest amongst others to talk about that.
Tex/Wayne has every right to his opinions but his style of delivery reminds me the burp and fart stage my son and his buddies went through at about 13 that got so wearing -about the 473rd time one of em burped on purpose and yukked it up at the expense of everything else going on I’d run out of patience.
I work on a multi-admin blog whose main purpose is to open conversation about the rural/urban divide here from a variety of vantage points. This link , which I wish more journalism students would pay heed to, affords a glimpse of some of what we strive for and casting about in unlikely places like M&H’s for ways to come at questions from different angles has had value.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Using+general+semantics+principles+in+the+basic+news+reporting…-a014540607
However, the time has come to step away and get away from the endless framing of all human activity as liberal or conservative tug of war.
I think all human logical constructs, when pursued to their logical extremes, fail. The holey underpants and unwashed armpits of each different POV are obvious to those who do not share that POV but rarely are we able to examine our own POVs dispassionately enough to see where our own are threadbare. I may not make it but that’s part of my personal quest- to try to learn to adjust when I see the cowflop in the road in time to avoid stomping through it.
best wishes all- Hoping Craig, Mageen, and all who are having tough times the very best.
Will be back- as long as Helen let’s us in, this is a place I like stopping by now and again at.
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By: alaskapi on July 8, 2011
at 10:31 AM
Unbelievable. There are still a few bleating sheep that believe O’Bama a scholar. Can I hear a CORPSE MAN or two with a shout out?
Irrational? 😆 😆
You post a set of well established facts showing how rotten the record of this rancid excuse for President has been and it’s called “irrational.” Text book case of how liberalism qualifies as a mental disorder. P.S. – I have no personal vendettas of any one lib. I disdain them all equally.
If you want to try your luck and view an example of vitriolic libs having their heads handed to them, head to Pajamas Media. There’s a handful of more intelligent libs, a rarity, who have a go or two. But they seldom last more than a few rounds. Libs are masters of criticism. When called upon to perform, they run like chickens chased by hounds – usually to some dive like chatty kitchen, where they can completely control the content and play speech police.
I actually commend the blog moderator here for showing a set.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 8, 2011
at 10:15 AM
Pfessor, I told you about two videos which you watched. Mumford and Sons, the men singing on motorcycles with uniformed men lipsynking, and Cake with the giant rabbits both appeared in Omaha-Council Bluffs. Mumford and Sons said they had never seen so much flood water when they landed. The parking lot where they sang was sandbagged and partly under water.
Our daughter and a friend went to the Cake concert and she said she must be getting old. Someone spilled beer on her shirt, and she reeked of marajuana when they left at the end.
I found another called “Paralyzer” by Finger Eleven, a Canadian group. The video is essentially a G rated supernatural mating dance. Change some of the words, remove the sexual inuendo, and you have a rough description of a message board.
I also still like NOP in spite of her ill thought through and failed ambush.
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 10:12 AM
getting back to the genetic fish…
http://www.livescience.com/3904-free-beef-proposed.html
http://www.livescience.com/5872-mad-science-growing-meat-animals.html
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By: uawtradesman on July 8, 2011
at 10:05 AM
That’s what I try to do PFessor. James P. Shannon’s essay should be posted on court house walls. Well, maybe not. Perhaps on blog sites, However, when I fail, it is a matter of personal choice for which I have applogized once in a while. In sofar as it is possible to know words on a screen, I like you too Noah, and the people you mentioned.
I often disagree with her, but I also like delurkergurl. She can be mean, aggressive, and wrong, but so can I. Underneath it all, I think she is a sweet person.
I think we give Obama too much credit or blame. Look at his history. From the beginning when he edited the Law Review in university, through his legislative career, Barack has tended to lead from behind. He presents some ideas and lets others do the hard work. Then, he engages to tie up loose ends.
Obamacare, for example, was the President’s concept. He talked about it and his goal for a single payer system before he was elected. He let Reid, Pelosi, their assistants, and others write the details. He as much as admitted he hadn’t read all of the bill during the legislative battle. Unnamed people wrote most of that and other legislation.
I researched Obama before the election. He scared me, and he has not surprised me.
Enjoy the good times with your baby, Noah. Before long, you will be teaching a sullen teenager how to drive, but those are good days too.
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 9:23 AM
should be pfesser great post..sorry typing while feeding the baby.
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By: Noah on July 8, 2011
at 8:22 AM
delurkergurl, great post, too bad so many people are like delurkergur just cannot be anything but hateful and spiteful. I should think we can rise above their pettiness and continue on without them. I do admit I get a great deal of satisfaction putting delurkergurl and her coven in their place, and will probably continue to do so as I tend to resent it when an olive branch is needlessly thrown back in our faces time and again. Considering how she lashes out she probably has a really bad home life and comes here to vent her frustrations.
End of the day only a truly broken individual would do what delurkergurl has done considering the very eloquent post presented by Pfesser. I suppose the best we can hope for is to be kind to each other, be nice to new folks dropping by and encourage them not to do as the coven does. I consider several people here friends, or at least kindred spirits, Pfesser, James, Wayne, one of the incarnations of Anonymous who debated well with myself, Wayne and some others, alaskapi, even if the sentiment isn’t returned, Honolulu Sally had her moments. So I know it is possible, just rare for people of the Liberal persuasion to have an open, honest talk.
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By: Noah on July 8, 2011
at 8:21 AM
delurkergurl –
Thanks for the post.
I rest my case.
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By: PFesser on July 8, 2011
at 7:56 AM
Pfessor, really? You think that not caving to your (plural form) demands to participate here on your terms is losing? And you dominating an abandoned blog is WINNING? LMAO! You sound like Charlie Sheen without the pretty girls and money. Thanks for the laugh. 😀 Really, I mean it.
When Hell’n posts again, everyone will turn up again. Nobody ran away. They weren’t here for you. When this blog wasn’t what people wanted any more, they found other places to go. There are thousands and thousands of blogs and boards on the web. Your insistence on dominating this one while whining about how disappointed you’ve been at it for a year makes you look stubborn and stupid.
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By: delurkergurl on July 8, 2011
at 7:44 AM
Here it is:
The Tradition of Respectful Argument
MSGR. James P. Shanon
President, St. Thomas College and Military Academy
One mark of an educated man is his ability to differ without becoming angry, sarcastic, or discourteous. Such a man recognizes that in contingent matters there will always be a place for legitimate difference of opinion.
He knows that he is not infallible, he respects the honesty and intellectual integrity of other men, and presumes that all men are men of integrity until they are proved to be otherwise. He is prepared to listen to them when their superior wisdom has something of value to teach him. He is slow to answer and always confident that truth can defend itself and state its own case without specious arguments, emotional displays, or personal pressures.
This is not to say that he abandons his position easily. If he can be a disciplined mind, he does not lightly forsake the intellectual ground he has won at great cost. He yields only to evidence, proof, or demonstration.
He expects his adversary to show conclusively the superior value of his opinions and he is not convinced by anything less than this. He is not intimidated by shouting. He is not impressed by verbosity. He is not overwhelmed by force of numbers.
His abiding respect for truth’s viability enables him to maintain composure and balance in the face of impressive odds. And his respect for the person and the intellect of his opponent persuades him from using cheap tricks, caustic comments, or personal attacks against his adversary, no matter how brilliant or forceful, unjust or unfair, they may be.
Because of his large views of truth and of individual human respectability, he is prepared to suffer apparent defeat in the mind of the masses on occasions when he knows his position is right. He is not shattered by this apparent triumph of darkness, because he realizes that the mass-mind is fickle at best.
At best he is neither angered nor shocked by new evidence of public vulgarity or blindness. He is rather prepared to see in these expected human weaknesses compelling reason for more compassion, better rhetoric, and stronger evidence on his part. He seeks always to persuade and seldom to denounce.
The ability to defend one’s own position with spirit and conviction, to evaluate accurately the conflicting opinions of others, and retain one’s confidence in the ultimate power of truth to carry its own weight are necessary talents in any society, but especially so in our democratic culture.
There is some evidence that these virtues are in short supply in our day and in our land. The venerable tradition of respectful argumentation, based on evidence, conducted with courtesy, and leading to greater exposition of truth is a precious part of our heritage in this land of freedom. It is the duty of educated men to understand, appreciate, and perpetuate this tradition.
(This brief essay was written by James P. Shannon, President of St. Thomas College and Military Academy in St. Paul, Minnesota, for his college paper. It was later reprinted in the May issue of the University of Minnesota Alumni News, 1962.)
(((((You can’t always do it, but to do anything else ALWAYS leads to unsatisfactory results, especially on the Internet – Jim)))))
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By: PFesser on July 8, 2011
at 7:22 AM
Noah –
While I did vote for Obama, I am very critical of his policies as you know. But I don’t blame it all on him. He does have a lot of power, but so do the Congress and all the cabinet “ministers.” I have been an investor for a very long time and there is plenty of blame to go around; I could start with Clinton and the elimination of Glass-Steagall and go all the way through GWB – and, yes, to Obama’s administration. Greenspan played no small part. So, kind of sidling into your comment about being an offender – I think some folks would be less p-o’d if Obama wasn’t singled out for all the blame perhaps. I am surely disappointed in him but I don’t put more than 25% of the blame on his head. Just my .05.
As for a better atmosphere – it’s really tough when you don’t know anybody personally. They don’t care if they piss you off and you don’t care if you do the same. That is a bad point of communicating on the Internet, but it invariably leads down a bad path. I know; I’ve done it myself. The tendency is to just fire off a quick “f__k you.”
Let me see if I can find something I ran across in college. If so, I’ll post it.
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By: PFesser on July 8, 2011
at 7:19 AM
I agree with the Pfessor. Part of its charm is this site’s having fewer rules than a NASCAR race. As in a race, you pick friends where you find them, and alliances shift from time to time. Sometimes, you try to spin out a foe, and a fist fight may follow.
So, undecided, do some research and attack the arguments you disagree with if you choose to stay. Facts rule, though some people interpret them to fit their agendas. If you see it happening, call them on it.
My concept of the Bush tax cuts resembles what I feel about interstate highways, railroad tracks and roads. Last summer, I tried to convince FEMA authorities they should factor such structures into their flood prone calculations. They told me they wouldn’t because our interstate was not a dike.
This flood has proven them wrong. While not called a dike our interstate stopped water from flowing into other parts of the valley. In some cases, it was more effective than the levies which broke. Knap bags and other devices used to keep otherwise submerged roads open also served as dikes. Except for the name, our roads were an effective system of dikes.
The Bush tax cuts have been around long enough for people and businesses to adjust to them. Thus, if they are rescinded, they will make the affected people react as if they are tax increases. Technically, it is not a tax increase, but like the roads it serves a function authorities won’t name.
Our national unemployment rate has now risen to 9.2% according the news. This supports my observation that the stimulus law failed. While the private sector gained some jobs, much of the loss came from governments. As stated in the law, its economic boost was intended to be a temporary jump start.
This is bad, because lower economic activity reduces government revenues, even with the short-term gain of confiscatory taxes. We should watch which politicians demagague, which take the threat seriously, and who’s ideas are workable. We should prepare to sacrifice our favorite government programs and vote. So far, countries buy our debt because they think it is a good long term investment. If they change their minds, “we’ve got trouble, right here in River City.”
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 7:17 AM
PFesser, agree on all counts as probably the worst offender. Not to make excuses but I reached a point where turning the other cheek seemed to be chum in the water and got me even more personal attention. Would be nice if we could return things to an intellectual level and ditch all the personal crap.
As for the debt I think it is as bad as you think it is, probably worse. We have land set aside in a joint venture with life long friends, wild corn growing to attract dear, and stocked with a lot of hand tools, (hand cranked blenders and such). I know some people say every generation had a time where they thought the shyt was going to hit the fan. I have to say this time I don’t see how it is not going to hit the fan. Obama is going to continue to spend us into oblivion. Debt is reaching that unsustainable point, and when it does I feel its going to be, game over.
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By: Noah on July 8, 2011
at 6:30 AM
alaskapi –
I like to debate Wayne/Tex; he’s bright and ornery, but I have to say I don’t think his attack-dog style fits very well here. He and I go after it hammer and tong at Rutherford’s and it’s a lot of fun.
As I told jsri in my last post to him, heaven here would be folks doing a lively give-and-take in a spirited, but not personal way. I have hoped for that since I came more than a year ago.
I am not a young player in the blog/newsgroup game. If people irk you, there is one and only one response: none. You cannot run away because if you do they win and they have driven you out.
There are so many very bright and thoughtful people who view this blog, and I would like to see them post more. The only way it will survive IMHO is for everybody to get some personal discipline and not respond to the folks trying to fan flames with personal insult. Raji does probably the best job of anybody, and I include myself in that list of those who could improve. We are pissing away a great opportunity to have a really nice blog.
re: the deficit, borrowing, etc. I just downloaded to my Kindle a book called, “Debt, Deficit and the Demise of the American Economy.” It is really chilling. Talk about the elephant in the room! I believe we will shortly be in very dire straits. My wife and I are on our own austerity program to try to pay off as much of our house as we can as quickly as possible. I think this coming financial crisis ain’t going to be pretty and it looks to my eye to be very close.
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By: PFesser on July 8, 2011
at 5:21 AM
Sorry about that alaskapi.
I let it pass because Wayne’s diatribe didn’t affect my emotions one way or the other. Thanks to my past, my emotions are inconsistant and unpredictable. “It is the imaginary surppression of the person we cannot surppress.” I compromised and merged with the person who was born to protect me during hard times in the service.
When I was a veteran guest on NPR’s Talk of the Nation, Science Friday, one of the panelists called me a “perfect storm.”
So, don’t expect me to be anyone’s consistant defender. it depends on my mood. .
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By: James on July 8, 2011
at 12:22 AM
….continued…to offer up into evidence exhibit #1 check out the post by this boards host labeled Sometimes men should just stick to football… but I digress. A personal attack launched directly at me. Followed were the gang of thugs that joined in relentlessly for weeks. We are the result of their actions, not the other way around.
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By: Noah on July 7, 2011
at 11:14 PM
undecided, you should read back further. Those of us of a non Liberal bent spent months trying to disarm the regulars here, almost begging them to cease the personal attacks and engage us on our ideas. For months we were all ganged up on without mercy. So having failed miserably at every turn and having one olive branch after another thrown in our face, we took them on at their game, their way, and handed them their collective asses. They found out the hard way the truth can be difficult to bluff your way past. If I have said it once I have said it a hundred times, that olive branch will always be there when they chose civilized discourse over personal attacks, but the days of taking it up the arse are long over.
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By: Noah on July 7, 2011
at 11:10 PM
I am surprised that no one on this blog has brought up the budget crisis. That controversy has been in the forefront for some time. It will probably continue to be right down until Aug. 2. The facts are that the Bush tax cuts are only due to expire. The conservatives are calling them tax increases. Some of them are demanding a Constitutional Amendment to require a balanced budget. Do they know what is involved in passing one and getting it ratified by all the states? How much time that takes? Between now and Aug. 2? Are any of the congressmen aware of the provisions of the 14th Amendment?
I wonder if Obama is just biding his time and toying with them, letting the conservatives clamor all they want to. Then he can exercise his veto pen. It is not very smart to cross swords with a former Professor of Constitutional Law.
I have been reading Margaret and Helen’s posts and a general view of the comments. It is plain that this is a liberal site. It seems strange that 2-3 conservatives come here regularly with venomous remarks bordering on irrational. Those posters appear to know each other well and enjoy sparring over long standing personal vendettas. As a consequence, I am more and more leaning toward the liberal perspective.
Next I plan to find several sites created by conservatives and see if any vitriolic liberals have invaded them. Maybe I will be persuaded in that direction.
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By: undecided on July 7, 2011
at 9:45 PM
James-disappointed here .
Tex/Wayne comes over and does his slap happy insult o rama routine and all you have to say is add such and such to the list?
Have been spending some time trying to figure out how to talk across gulfs while standing next to folks- ignoring insults and all. Pretty much a flop I think.
Delurkergurl- thanks. Worth a shot to try to open the door…
Thank you Helen and Margaret for having all of us in. Gonna take a break for awhile. Fish to fry and all…
from Jose Ortega y Gasset in Meditations on Quixote:
“we …find it easier to be aroused by a moral dogma than to open our hearts to the demands of veracity. We are definitely more willing to hand over our free will to a rigid moral attitude than to keep our judgment always open, ready at any moment for the desirable form and correction.
One might say that we embrace the moral imperative like a weapon in order to simplify life for ourselves by destroying immense portions of the globe.
With keen vision Nietzsche has detected forms and products of resentment in certain moral attitudes. No product of resentment can evoke our sympathy. Rancor emanates from a sense of inferiority.
It is the imaginary suppression of the person whom we cannot actually suppress by our own efforts.The one towards whom we feel resentment bears in our imagination the livid semblance of a corpse: in our minds, we have killed him, annhilated him.
Later, when we find him actually sound and unconcerned in reality, he seems to us like a refractory corpse , stronger than ourselves, whose very existence is an embodiment of mockery, of disdain towards our weakness.
Love (knowledge for Ortega) fights too, it does not stagnate in the troubled peace of compromise; but it fights lions as lions and gives the name “dog” only to dogs.
This struggle with an enemy who is understood is true tolerance, the proper attitude of every robust soul. Jose de Campos , the eighteenth century thinker, whose interesting book Azorin has discovered , wrote : ” The virtues of tolerance are rare in poor peoples ” ; that is to say, weak peoples.”
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By: alaskapi on July 7, 2011
at 9:43 PM
The last post was mine.
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By: James on July 7, 2011
at 9:03 PM
Pfessor, yes, many farm steads are on slightly higher ground with mounds built under houses. A number of farmsteads are islands with the help of home-made dikes.
Our house is built on a four to five foot foundation. Most of the interior has never been flooded in the one hundred years of its existance. My grandparents bought and built a Sears Roebuck house in 1911 and planned for floods.
Ft Randal and Gavins Point Dams in South Dakota are becoming tourist attractions. 160,000 cfs shooting through spillways is spectacular. So, far, I haven’t persuaded, my wife to go.
During WW1, neighbors cut the dike of the drainage ditch to relived flood pressure on their side of the dike. My grandparents got tired of it, so one year, my grandfather and their three oldest children patrolled the dike late at night. Giving a teenaged boy and his sisters rifles was probably a bad idea. My aunt shot at a shadow.
Wayne, you should add Project Gunrunner to your list. According to Babalu, money from the stimulus law paid for it.
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By: Anonymous on July 7, 2011
at 8:59 PM
Lurch,
Set these facts to memory and report them back to Chatty Cathy’s so you gals can massage the disaster for a few days while you man the lifeboats. It does tickle me so to watch libs now judged on record alone. Abysmal…
—–
Indisputable facts Lurch….. .17 seconds, or not:
There are 2 million fewer private-sector jobs now than when Obama was sworn in, and the unemployment rate is 1.5 percentage points higher.
• There are now more long-term unemployed than at any time since the government started keeping records.
• The U.S. dollar is more than 12% weaker.
• The number of Americans on food stamps has climbed 37%.
• The Misery Index (unemployment plus inflation) is up 62%.
• And the national debt is about 40% higher than it was in January 2009.
Anybody of sanity who bothered to look will discover that Obama has managed to produce the worst recovery on record by a long shot.
Obama = EPIC FAILURE
Chatty Kitchen = House of Hags
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By: Wayne Perram on July 7, 2011
at 7:05 PM
James – I don’t have the time or inclination to go that far back and look, but I am pretty sure Rae left because of me. Too bad; she was bright and thoughtful.
Good on you about the water’s receding. Man that must really suck. I think everybody ought to know just how far above the nearest river their property is – some folks where I grew up elevated their homes about six feet and put a cinderblock wall under them in response to a flood. The next flood they were cheezin’. They were in their own little islands, watching the water go by!
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By: Pfesser on July 7, 2011
at 7:01 PM
Cynthia, do you remember when my wife and I were preparing to leave our home with the flood, and we worried about what to do with our dog?
After a lot of work and trickery of my wife, our dog now has a collar around her neck and we learned she is trained for a leash. She just hates it and gives us resentful expressions.
Local water levels have fallen six inches in the last two days, and the nearest flood water is staling across the road from us. We are optimistic about our house if heavy rain stays away..
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By: James on July 7, 2011
at 3:38 PM
alaskapi, You aren’t boring me. I plan to look at the link when I have time. I worry that I bore you.
I just finished the Administration’s analysis of the stimulus law. It didn’t surprise me except for the statement that the law was intended to be temporary. I am suspicious of job estimates like that because it is hard to know exactly how many jobs were created or lost due to a governmental or private event because cause and effect are complex. I was also surprised the authors said that near the end of their report.
As I wrote before, the stimulus targeted governments and also infrastructure and green jobs. They are good, and necessary, but they redistribute more than create wealth. Thus, the recovery is less self sustaining than concentration on the private sector would have been. I think the administration misjudged how our economy works and expected the mostly government aid would jump start the entire economy. It did a bit, but not as much as they expected as the authors stated in their report.
Some companies have no doubt returned money to the government, so that needs to be part of the calculation. However, considering the stated goals of the law and independent economists who have said the law failed, I agree. The government could have spent the money more wisely.
delurkergurl, thanks for your earlier kind words about our perdiciment. I’m not going to argue with you today, because I appreciate you. But I do have a question. How did you word your question to google? I wrote “how much did the stimulus law’s jobs created cost per job?” I got pages of “Obama’s own economists say they cost $278.000 per job.” I want to see what the other side says.
Another reason I don’t trust reports and projections is they are based on imperfect information. The Corps of Engineers reps finally agreed I was right about our local inundation maps after I had been telling them since June 10. As Rumsfeld said so eliquently, knowns and unknowns interact in unknown ways.
My Corps of Engineers conversations testify to the advantages of being nice. They are catching a lot grief, so when they help me, I praise them and ask to tell their supervisors what a good job they are doing. It is the truth. They now recognize my voice and tell me how happy they are to talk to me. My wife says I have aquired a fan club.
PFessor, I know you miss Rae. She left because of me. Someone bashed me, and I responded in kind. She said I should have ignored it, wrote she wouldn’t put up with any more of me and declared she was leaving. It didn’t bother me.
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By: James on July 7, 2011
at 3:27 PM
Testing, testing!
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By: Cynthia on July 7, 2011
at 2:58 PM
delurkergurl, welcome out from under the house that fell in you. I wonder if the 30+ failed campaign promises by your Messiah bother you equally as much?
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By: Noah on July 7, 2011
at 10:26 AM
I apologize for boring folks to pieces- fish law and issues are very important to me.
For anyone still awake this is a decent run at more of what is involved here :
http://www.tu.org/press_releases/2010/trout-magazine-story-biotech-salmon-would-endanger-wild-salmon-and-ecosystems
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By: alaskapi on July 7, 2011
at 9:33 AM
PFesser- the thrust of Aqua Bounty’s argument ( the company involved ) is that they would be able to quarantine the fish farming well enough to negate any and all risks. FDA is only part of the picture. Congress has the responsibility to regulate interstae commerce . In these days of arguing about whether there is too much regulation getting in the way of open commerce they seem to be abdicating their responsibility to look seriously at the larger issues involved here. I think the FDA needs to finish it’s process, be it yea or nay, and then we decide through Congress or our pocketbooks whether we accept this product. Lots of people disagree with me. They would rather stop it any old way. I don’t like the idea of “gains” or “losses” made by back door means- that stuff bites us back at some point.
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By: alaskapi on July 7, 2011
at 9:07 AM
You’re right, AlaskaPi. $278,000 per job is a lie, only believed by suckers, and spread by suckers and liars. Google found the answer for me in 0.17 seconds. It’s inconvenient for people to look for the facts. Facts make lousy mud.
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By: delurkergurl on July 7, 2011
at 8:31 AM
alaskapi –
I am well-aware of the problems encountered when introducing foreign plants/animals: English sparrow, starling, multiflora rose, kudzu, rabbits in Australia, Chinese beetles here. It is universally a bad idea; I’ve never seen it work. Mixing transgenic fish with native fish seems to me like a massive genie – once it is out of the bottle, if it doesn’t work you are in real trouble since there is no going back.
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By: PFesser on July 7, 2011
at 8:29 AM
James has outlined the general problems with aquaculture-farmed fish- and transgenic salmon has at least those problems.
The collapses of various aquaculture projects off the coast of Chile had much to do with people assuming they could control for those variables and finding they weren’t anywhere able to.
There is a fair amount of info here as regards current study of aquaculture and risk assessment as relates to transgenic salmon.
Click to access UCM227002.pdf
What is just off stage in discussions about feeding people via aquaculture is the vast complicated structure of federal legislation in the EEZ ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_Economic_Zone )
as it relates to fisheries.My Rep has had a part in crafting amendments to the Magnusson Stevens Fisheries Conservation Act and proposals currently in committee to disallow the EPA from making judgments about water quality in navigable waters which make a sham of his basic argument that he is all about protecting wild fish stocks but the remarks by others are more valid.
Would way rather real consideration of risks be weighed than hiding FDAs checkbook though.
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By: alaskapi on July 7, 2011
at 8:23 AM
PFesser- most of the arguments about transgenic fish are mentioned above -from Congress Daily Journal of remarks made on the floor when the amendment was introduced. I think my Rep makes the poorest articulation .
The approval process is lodged in the FDA’s veterinary medicine section
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/FDAVeterinarianNewsletter/ucm133255.htm
‘Q. How will these products be regulated?
A. Most, but probably not all, gene-based modifications of animals for production or therapeutic claims fall under CVM regulation as new animal drugs. As strange as it may seem at first, many of the modifications being investigated involve the addition of new animal drug substances. For example, adding growth hormone to a cow can be accomplished through use of BST injections, through gene therapies to create BST-producing regions in the body of the cow, or through germ-line modification, making a transgenic variety that contains extra BST-coding genes in every cell of the body, including reproductive cells. It all amounts to adding an animal drug, but the conditions are different – dose, areas of the body where the drug is released, opportunity for a withdrawal time, etc. The substances being added are for the purpose of improving animal health or productivity.’
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By: alaskapi on July 7, 2011
at 7:37 AM
Contents Display
AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2012 — (House of Representatives – June 15, 2011)
[Page: H4240] GPO’s PDF
AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. YOUNG OF ALASKA
Mr. YOUNG of Alaska. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.
The Acting CHAIR. The Clerk will report the amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
At the end of the bill (before the short title), insert the following:
Sec. __. None of the funds made available by this Act to the Food and Drug Administration may be used to approve any application submitted under section 512 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 360b) for approval of genetically engineered salmon.
The Acting CHAIR. The gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. YOUNG of Alaska. Mr. Chairman, my interest in here is because I am from Alaska, and we have the finest wild salmon in the world. And we have people that are trying to–and especially under NOAA and FDA–trying to approve the fact that they have genetically engineered a salmon. That’s not natural.
[Time: 20:10]
And our goal is, we have a supply of natural wild salmon for the State of Alaska and for this Nation, because I think that’s crucially important, especially in this day when we have all those that accuse us of having artificial things, you know, pesticides, et cetera.
This is a good amendment. It’s an amendment supported by both sides of the aisle. It’s not just Alaska. This is also for California, Oregon, and the rest of it. But mostly, I am the Congressman from Alaska. I think it’s crucially important we understand that this should not be allowed, for the FDA to say, okay, a genetically raised salmon–I call it a Frankenstein fish–should never be allowed in our markets.
I have a group of individual Alaskans who not only make their living, but they are proud of their product. To have this occur and be promoted by the Federal Government is wrong.
So I’m trying to save money. But I’m also saying genetically we should never allow it to happen in the fishing industry.
I yield to the gentleman from California (Mr. Farr).
Mr. FARR. It’s my pleasure to join you in this amendment. I actually have the best salmon caught in the lower 48 in Monterey Bay. A history of fishing in Monterey, used to be the sardine capital of the world. We’re very sensitive to the fact that people are trying to mess around with the natural process and the Food and Drug Administration is set to approve genetically engineered salmon through a process the FDA uses to approve new drugs for animals. There’s something wrong with the fact that in the approval process our food is now treated the same as animal drugs.
If approved, genetically engineered salmon would be the first genetically modified animal allowed onto the American dinner plate. Approval of genetically engineered salmon poses serious threats to human health, our fishing communities, and our wildlife stock fish.
They have no long-term studies on the safety of genetically engineered fish. There could be grave, unintended consequences on human health. Preliminary studies show that the compounds in genetically engineered salmon may be linked to cancer and severe drug allergies.
We’ve seen that the dominant method of raising salmon in other parts of the world is an open net, these pens in the ocean, and farmed fish escape these facilities every year. The impact of genetically engineered salmon escaping could be detrimental to wild stocks. The list goes on and on and on.
Our fishing communities are already facing challenges, and genetically engineered salmon would have an additional effect of lowering wild salmon prices, as already seen with normal farmed salmon. Lower prices, combined with declines in wild salmon stocks, would be economically detrimental to our fishermen, our fishing culture, and our coastal communities. It is unnecessary to genetically engineer salmon.
For these reasons, I support Mr. Young’s amendment that prohibits funds to the FDA to approve genetically engineered salmon.
Mr. YOUNG of Alaska. I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the amendment.
The Acting CHAIR. The gentleman from Georgia is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. KINGSTON. I do not have the expertise that my friend from Alaska has on it, but I wanted to say this. Earlier, or actually during the markup, Mr. Rehberg offered an amendment about the FDA using sound science. And I do believe, in this case, the FDA is using sound science in a process that was approved in January 2009, and they are going through a process right now to make sure that this product does not have a problem as respects human consumption. I think that, of course, should be the number one issue.
There are also some other considerations in terms of food supply, feeding more people, which is something that we all have debated on this bill. And also there is an issue with me about some jobs. So I’m concerned on this because it does seem like a pretty major change in my philosophy of sound science.
I yield to my friend from Alaska, who I think is out of time.
Mr. YOUNG of Alaska. I thank the chairman.
I believe whoever has given him that information is wrong. We have a product made in the United States naturally. Why would we want someone to create a Frankenstein fish to compete against a naturally created God-given gift, and have it promoted by supposedly science?
There’s no science in this. In fact, they were trying to do and say we have to feed the world with artificial means. And I’m saying, okay. Do it someplace. But don’t you do it with my and our salmon.
Mr. Farr, listen to me very carefully. This is a very, very important thing because this is the greatest thing we have going, Alaskan natural wild salmon being sold in the market and the benefit, what they can do to have it replaced by a genetic Frankenstein fish. I’m saying this is wrong. All due respect to the chairman.
What science are they talking about? They have a bunch of people created by the government that’s going to take and put in, I call it traps or nets, and create a fish that’s fed quickly. They say it can grow quicker, we’re home.
Well, what people are you talking about? Mr. Dicks, you better be listening because you catch most of my salmon. Don’t you forget it. You had better stand on the floor and defend this because you’re in deep trouble if you don’t. I’ll tell you that right now.
The Acting CHAIR. The gentleman will please direct his comments to the Chair.
Mr. KINGSTON. Reclaiming my time, I don’t know all the ins and outs of this, but I do know that we’re constantly getting on the FDA to use more sound science, less politics, and to have more transparency, and it appears that that’s what they’re doing here. And they may come out against genetically modified salmon, but they are just looking at it right now to determine.
And with respect to the food supply, if you could safely produce genetically modified fish, you could feed a great portion of the world with it. So I have some concerns on it, but I did want to oppose the amendment.
• [Begin Insert]
Ms. WOOLSEY. Mr. Chair, I rise in strong support of my colleague from Alaska, Mr. Young’s amendment to prohibit funding for the
[Page: H4241] GPO’s PDF
Food and Drug Administration to approve genetically engineered salmon.
The FDA is considering an application to sell patented genetically engineered salmon for human consumption. This fish would be given a gene from an eel-like Pout fish and a growth hormone from the Pacific Chinook salmon, which would allow it to grow twice as fast as traditional Atlantic salmon.
If the FDA approves the request, it would be the first genetically engineered animal approved for human consumption, and it would open the door for many more.
Unfortunately, the FDA evaluation process has lacked transparency, failing to provide the public adequate information or sufficient time to provide comment or express concern. And a recent poll found that 91 percent of Americans oppose FDA approval of genetically engineered animals for human consumption.
Mr. Chair, I’m also concerned about the potential commercial impact of G.E. salmon. Salmon fishermen in my district and many others along the Pacific coast have been devastated in recent years by fishery closures. Last year’s salmon season was limited to just 8 days because of the continued steep decline in the salmon population.
Because G.E. salmon are more sexually aggressive and resistant to environmental toxins, their escape would pose a catastrophic threat to wild salmon populations.
If just 60 of these G.E. fish find their way into a population of sixty thousand wild salmon, the wild species would fade into extinction in a matter of decades.
While its producer claims that genetically engineered salmon would be sterile, FDA’s own documents show that five percent of this G.E. salmon would, in fact, be able to reproduce.
Each year, millions of farmed salmon escape from open-water nets, threatening wild fish populations. Even if a small number of fertile G.E. salmon spilled into nature, our wild salmon and fisherman would be suffering the consequences for years to come–possibly for evermore.
I want to thank my good friend Don Young for his hard work on this important issue and his leadership as co-chair of the Congressional Caucus on Wild Salmon ….. even though he considers my salmon “bait” for his fishers.
I look forward to continuing to work with him and other concerned colleagues to protect our natural fisheries and stop this “frankenfish.”
I urge my colleagues to support this amendment. For consumer safety, for the purity of our waters, and for the continued viability of our fishing industry ….. we must block funding for the FDA to approve genetically engineered salmon.
• [End Insert]
Mr. KINGSTON. I yield back the balance of my time.
The Acting CHAIR. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Alaska (Mr. Young).
The amendment was agreed to.
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By: alaskapi on July 7, 2011
at 7:17 AM
She can answer better than I can.
Genetically altered salmon may be able to out compete the origionals if they escape to the wild. At the least, the new salmon would pollute the gene pool. They may not be as able to survive against disease etc than the original fish. In the long run, this could be bad for the salmon. I believe there are pollution and parasite problems too.
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By: James on July 7, 2011
at 6:52 AM
Thanks alaskapi. I’ll look at the links when I have time. I agree about reading primary documents. It is why I read a version of the health insurance law when it was a bill. The scary part was most of Congress didn’t read the bill and would not have understand it if they had.
I like salmon. It is healthy food, and if genetically altered salmon prevents overfishing, that is a good thing. However, I agree with you. I am also anti- transgenic fish. Genetically altered salmon are desirable only if they are raised in the middle of the Sahara or another desert. Even then, as with the line in Jurasic Park, nature will find a way.
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By: James on July 7, 2011
at 6:40 AM
alaskapi –
What is the objection to transgenic fish? I have no experience in this realm.
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By: PFesser on July 7, 2011
at 6:35 AM
James- this link should work. Somehow a w in http://www.blah, blah, blah got lost in the link above.
I disagree with plenty of the pundits about this report because I think they are fixing on things which do or do not appeal to their POV rather than the report itself- which I’m just flat tired of no matter who does it. However, reading primary documents/materials and then a variety of opinions , pro and con and in between makes more sense than just sucking along with whatever the evening news soundbite says something is.
Click to access cea_7th_arra_report.pdf
——————-
This may mean nothing to many or most here but has just torched my shorts lately:
“H.AMDT.449 (A031) Amends: H.R.2112 Sponsor: Rep Young, Don [AK] (offered 6/15/2011) AMENDMENT PURPOSE: An amendment to prohibit the use of funds made available by this Act to the Food and Drug Administration to approve any application for approval of genetically engineered salmon.”
This is an amendment which passed the House, authored by my stupenagle Representative.
It was reported in the news as a BAN on transgenic fish (frankenfish) in the making . Load of horsepunky – it’s an end run around allowing the FDA to finish it’s approval process hearings.
Who knows whether it will pass the Senate but for now it makes a bunch of House members look like they are doing something useful about genetically engineered food v wild salmon industry issues when they haven’t done doodly squat except propose to close the checkbook .
If this passes into law, we have not banned transgenic fish , we have refused to directly ban it in favor of a sneak attack on funding to finish the approval process.
I am anti-transgenic fish for a variety of reasons but am quite concerned about this amendment and House vote.
I am also concerned about reporting on the amendment being so off base as to bear little resemblance to reality.
So far the best overall arguments come from a stance I disagree with – the transgenic fish camp.
There are some problems here because crying the special interest v science thing doesn’t really describe the situation but otherwise the argument is very good. http://reason.com/archives/2011/06/21/congress-moves-to-ban-frankenf
If anyone has even read this far without their eyes rolling back up in their head- the reason to share this and other things is that I think most perspectives add something to the whole.
And I don’t buy the narrow gobbeldy-gook $278, 000/job as a FULL description of what we got for our bucks.
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By: alaskapi on July 6, 2011
at 10:00 PM
jsri opined:
“And you are not without culpability. About a year ago I posted a relatively mild comment about an issue and you came back with a snotty remark that really pissed me off. And during the past year or so I have noted that this seems to be your common MO when you disagree with people. I find that to be not exactly the way to make friends and influence people.”
As I like to say, sir, if you have an irony allergy, you are a dead man.
I see it a little differently. To my POV, I peered in here a little over a year ago to find a very self-satisfied little cadre of “like-minded individuals” as you like to say, who were just lovely – with one exception: they were stuck in a perennial intellectual circle-jerk, recycling the same politics and continuously reinforcing each others’ prejudices. They wouldn’t tolerate any other POV and had developed a little system to descend en masse like harpies and drive out anyone who might have the temerity to disagree with them.
I don’t much care for bullies – particularly bullies who gang up on others – so I stuck around to have a little fun at their expense. They – except for a very bright poster named Rae – were ill-prepared for someone who can NOT be intimidated and in short order ran away to the Chatty Kitchen to continue their mutual masturbation and talk about the mean old men who had torn their playhouse down. (As lori would say, LOL LOL)
But I – like you – have tired of the silly game and made overtures several times to bury the hatchet, but got no takers. So be it. Your “snotty remark” comment is of course all in your head; I remember the exchange well. It is you who started the line of enquiry with several nonsensical comments about crashing motorcycles without helmets, etc and I administered a good spanking to you – which you deserved – and you left the field looking pretty foolish. I didn’t start it, Puss, but piss me off and I can surely finish it; and as you know all too well, if you want to play the game called Wise-ass you are not in my league. No brag, just fact. (apologies to Walter Brennan).
Personally I don’t like the “Aw, eat shit and die!” any more than you do. It is such a waste of good brainpower, and as a Libertarian, I would love to engage libs and conservatives alike in a lively give and take, but it seems there are very few (and I mean about two) on this whole blog who understand the idea of extending respect to those with whom you disagree. (One handles asshats, BTW, by just ignoring them. One cannot – repeat cannot – win. (hint, hint)).
I will ask you one more time, and I really don’t care which way you respond: do you want to be civil and discuss real issues and leave the sophomoric insults alone? I will if you will. It ain’t easy. You know, we COULD be friends. Your call.
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By: Pfesser on July 6, 2011
at 9:07 PM
a lil reminder of what is at stake
Click to access reagan_letter_0514.pdf
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By: alaskapi on July 6, 2011
at 7:10 PM
Hard to imagine this is even being considered.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/06/tim-scott-impeachment-obama-14-amendment-debt_n_891521.html
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By: Noah on July 6, 2011
at 4:33 PM
Like all feckless libs, you confuse quantity with quality. What makes you think we haven’t accomplished exactly what we set out to do? Personally, I’ll only be satisfied with I have you ignorant fools under my boot and stomping your head with the steel sole, but running you lying, propagandizing sponges off is the next best thing. 😀
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By: Wayne Perram on July 6, 2011
at 4:11 PM
Response to: PFesser on July 5, 2011 at 12:19 PM
This has been going on for entirely too long which makes it difficult to know where to start. But since some people don’t seem to be able to give it up, perhaps a different perspective may help latecomers who have been left to wonder what the hell is going on.
When many of us were first attracted to H&M’s site several years ago, a community of like minded individuals were the initial responders. Soon a community of people showed up regularly who would exchange ideas about subjects other than but also including politics. Though some differences arose, for the most part they were settled amicably and without rancor.
But, about a year ago, several new posters arrived who immediately began challenging previous posters with insults and demanding that they explain the reasons for their beliefs. I don’t know about the sort of people you deal with but most folks I know are put off by in-you-face challenges and usually withdraw rather than be drawn into endless harrangues.
For the first few years H&M’s site was drawing an average of almost 1 million hits per year. But even though you seem to believe that your presence and the onslaught by newcomers here has improved the site, the numbers say something quite different. Over the past six months hits are down by one half and many of the posters I became used to seeing are no longer around. The cause and effect should be pretty clear.
And you are not without culpability. About a year ago I posted a relatively mild comment about an issue and you came back with a snotty remark that really pissed me off. And during the past year or so I have noted that this seems to be your common MO when you disagree with people. I find that to be not exactly the way to make friends and influence people.
Am I guilty of the same behavior? No question about it. Do I apologize for it? Yes, but. I refuse to apologize to those whose characterizations of people here are dishonest or hateful. A couple of the more recent posters here have been particularly adept at this tactic. Unfortunately they don’t recognize themselves.
So, I expect that this site will eventually disappear, a victim of its successes and its excesses, as most of its former members find more agreeable sites elsewhere.
You will also be glad to know that these will most likely be my final words on the subject
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By: jsri on July 6, 2011
at 2:41 PM
James, it is why Liberalism is a disease and the one of the greatest threats our nation will ever face. You didn’t do any of the things NOP accused you of. But he/she/it found an angle and spun what you said into something that it was not to further his/her/its own ends. This attack was bereft of any facts. honesty, or integrity, and was put forth for no other purpose but to paint you in a bad light.
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By: Noah on July 6, 2011
at 10:38 AM
Thanks Pfessor and Noah. I don’t understand how people can miss read simple words. I was clear about citing their hypocracy and wrote we could survive without Obama or Bono.Suddenly I was making our “hangnail” worse than Katrina when in realty it was nothing at all. Maybe English is NOP’s second language.
The latest crisis is an Exon-Mobile pipe line broke on the flooding Yellowstone River. Authorities theorize trees moving down stream with the flood water knocked a hole in the pipe line. The oil may have reached North Dakota but it will be deluted when it reaches us.
To paraphrase Teena (Palin) Fey, I can see water from our attic.
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By: James on July 6, 2011
at 9:05 AM
This is from memory, so I have no sources to site.
New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin failed to implement his evacuation plan, and he delayed the emergency order until less than a day before landfall. Manditory evacuations made no provision for people without cars, the homeless, or sick.He refused to use school buses which might have rescued vulnerable people because of possible insurance liability and the city’s inability to find bus drivers. A parish south of New Orleans evacuated their citizens with busses and cars.
The local government sent people to the Super Dome and left them without sufficient food or water. Refugees were basically left alone without much government help. News reporters were able to find and interview people in the Super Dome. Where were city officials? It wouldn’t have been much, but they could have created a food drive in neighboring towns and even raided their own refrigerators. Some people did disregard city orders to remain in that man-made hell. A network news reporter interviewed families under a highway overpass. They were walking out of town.
FEMA brought food and water to the area early on, but they miscalculated the need and the supplies were gone too soon. They hired firefighters to help with the rescue, but kept them in classes teaching topics like sexual harrassment and the history of FEMA. I believe the classes lasted for two days.
The Coast Guard, two out of state sherrifs, and a Canadian contingent didn’t wait to navigate federal to loal red tape. They ignored it and sent help before FEMA arrived.
Gov. Blanco dithered and was late to decide to ask for federal help. The government could not use its resouces until the state asked.
Some claimed National Guard levels were down because of the Iraq war and because some schools had hindered their recruitment efforts.
Part of New Orleans is below sea level. Some Corps of Engineers money was diverted to other purposes. The main force of Katrina struck east of New Orleans and saved the city from more serious damage . The Today Show’s post storm report bordered on congratulary for the city. Then, the levies broke. Government officials should have known burst levies were a possibility and planned for a flood.
Some said President Bush called the governor and mayor to ask them to declare a manditory evacuation. Nagin denied he got a call. Blanco said she had spoken to Bush. Whether or not Bush asked , they could have issued the order and saved lives.
Our county held several meetings and told people in vulnerable areas. “The lights will go off on a certain date. Mail deliveries will stop. You stay at your own risk because we won’t have the people to rescue you.” New Orleans officials could have done the same several days before Katrina made landfall.
An organization who’s name i have forgotten researched the disaster and concluded that local governments were more flexible and effective than the city, state, and federal governments.
New Orleans also suffered from gang turf wars, looting, and a disfunctional police department. Other police officers suffered such stress that one or two killed themselves.
In end, local governments denied their mistakes and placed the blame on the federal government. Slanted news reports and shows like Meet the Press reinforced the claims. Democrats used the disaster as a political issue against Repubilcans.
I never claimed our disaster was as bad as Katrina or the tornado outbreaks. My only point was to illustrate the hyprocacy of concerned celebraties and Obama’s foolish refusal to make a symbolic visit and speech as presidents tradtionally do. He might have won some votes.
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By: James on July 6, 2011
at 8:38 AM
amen
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By: Noah on July 6, 2011
at 7:01 AM
“but that you could equate your immediate situation that to 8, 9, 10 pound infants in better that a hundred degree weather without water for days sickens me.”
Your sickness is of your own making, since he never said that. Try some Dramamine.
I for one am loath to criticize someone – or minimize his loss – from the comfort of my warm, dry home – while he fights just to KEEP his.
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By: PFesser on July 6, 2011
at 6:20 AM
No One’s Puppet isn’t actually bothered by anything you said James. It is just a cheap shot by a low life. We have dozens of posts by this individual to show that this is just his/her/its MO. No one but this person took what you were saying beyond anything but you conveying your experience. Any other President in a time of crisis like this would have taken time out of his golf and b-ball schedule to take 10 minutes to take note of what is going on. It doesn’t have to be the greatest tragedy to strike the US for you to feel it warranted at least a head nod from the Messiah. Were there any morality in this coven of Liberals they might be at least concerned about the Messiah’s 30+ broken promises to our nations poor, disabled, sick, elderly and veterans. Like the race card, it is more a tactic than genuine care for any other human being.
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By: Noah on July 5, 2011
at 11:11 PM
NOP, I never equated our misfortune with what happened in New Orleans toward the Florida Panhandle. I compared the reaction of liberal entertainers, the president and others to the Katrina disaster, the tornadoes, the fire, and our flood. When you compared our crisis to a relative hang nail, I showed it was much worse, more an economic than physical disaster. I also showed that our local governments were superior to the New Orleans variety. That includes most of the tornado survivors.
I submit to you that local authorities contributed to the horror of babies dying of thirst, dead bodies lying in the Super Dome and other tragedies. That’s what sickens me. More later. Its bed time.
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By: James on July 5, 2011
at 9:30 PM
James, I get that it is going to hit you in the pocketbook this fall, and I am sorry for that, but that you could equate your immediate situation that to 8, 9, 10 pound infants in better that a hundred degree weather without water for days sickens me. The local government or state government could take care of it, how? Their, the Louisiana National Guards’ helicopters were in Iraq, so how were they suppose to drop bottled water to the people?
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By: No One's Puppet on July 5, 2011
at 8:03 PM
your right pfessor. Im finished. He will never argue honestly and goes for the cheap shot at every turn.
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By: Noah on July 5, 2011
at 3:24 PM
I’ll bite PFessor. If I can “endorse” Michele Bachmann to make it interesting for NOP, I can second your observation.
Maybe they could look up the Bickersons staring Don Ameche and Francis Langford and use some of their funny lines.
“Palin with brains.” I like that. Obviously I don’t support either of them.
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By: James on July 5, 2011
at 12:49 PM
If you want to see a pretty good capsule summary on Michele Bachmann:
Confession: I lifted this from Rutherford’s blog
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/michele-bachmanns-holy-war-20110622
If you ain’t scared of Bachmann now, you will be after reading the above. Think of her as a Palin with brains.
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By: PFesser on July 5, 2011
at 12:23 PM
jsri and Noah – No offense to either of you, but you guys are IMHO looking kind of bad. It’s gotten down to “Ah, eat shit.”
C’mon dudes – some stinging repartee is good fun, but man…
Anybody else want to weigh in, or are you guys going to leave me twisting in the wind, as Erlichman would say? …
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By: PFesser on July 5, 2011
at 12:19 PM
Thankyou jsri.
This flood affects land from southern Canada to the Gulf. We are leaving the emergency phase and beginning maintainance as the river stabilizes. So far, about 180 acres of our land is under water, and it will remain so through fall. The Corps of Engineers will be releasing 160,000 cfs until at least August 23.
If you have time, google
KFAB.com and or Missouri River Flooding 2011-Lee Valley inc. Page one of the Lee Valley site has a photo of part of our farm. The site has not been updated since June 29 because of the holiday.
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By: James on July 5, 2011
at 11:53 AM
I don’t have to write in their support. My physical support is offered on a daily basis. But I doubt if you would understand the distinction.
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By: jsri on July 5, 2011
at 11:35 AM
It is obvious that your racist hatred….
jsri , now the true you shines out. You are not looking for a political discussion or an intellectual one for that matter. I am sure there is a word that would describe you more accurately but a piece of shit will have to do for now. I have not ever made any racial connotations about anyone including this President. This is the card your kind plays when your intellect fails to support your failed arguments. The Messiah’s race is irrelevant to the damage he is doing to this country. His policy and the effects it has on this nation would be the same if he were white, black, or orange. I cannot help but laugh at this pathetic attempt to paint me in a bad light. I take it as a huge compliment that you have gotten this desperate.
As for the wife of the Messiah. You then must sight all historical counterparts to any argument you make by your ridiculous line of thinking. Please tell me what business of this nation was the wife of the Messiah on when she and her mother took air force 2, a military transport and $800,000 of our tax payer dollars. Was there some noble cause she was championing? At the times of the other first ladies in history, were we in the middle of an economic collapse, record unemployment, spending trillions of failed projects? Was the country $14,361,678,223,969..89 in debt? Please explain to me how you would feel justified taking a trip of this cost on the tax payers dime when the Messiah has over 30+ broken promises to our nations poor, disabled, sick, elderly and veterans. I am still noting these group of individuals still doesn’t matter to you in the least, at least not enough to write a single word in support of their plight.
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By: Noah on July 5, 2011
at 10:46 AM
James
Sorry I haven’t been able to follow the floods, I’ve been somewhat indisposed lately but your goldfish comment was funny.
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By: jsri on July 5, 2011
at 10:00 AM
Starting with the jet age just about all first ladies made good will trips abroad, although Nancy Reagan spent most of her time shuttling back and forth within the USA. She also spent a bucket of cash renovating the White House. As far as I can determine, none of this came out of Ronnie’s pocket.
Laura Bush made trips to Zambia, Mozambique, Mali, Senegal, Haiti and Burma, all at taxpayer’s expense.
Hilary Clinton made trips to Portugal, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, China, and Brazil at taxpayer’s expense.
Yet in your run-on anti Michelle Obama diatribe I see no reference to previous first lady travels.
It is obvious that your racist hatred allows you to ignore all other travels and focus exclusively on those of Mrs. Obama. Your run-on list is obviously a cut and paste from some RW org that shares your hatred of the President and the first lady and should be viewed as such.
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By: jsri on July 5, 2011
at 9:57 AM
NOP, here is why we will never have to wait for the Mexican Army to come to our rescue.
A day or two after the Corps of Engineers warned us of the disaster, a retired Corps of Engineers hydrological engineer and current farmer decided protect the neighborhood. He called some farmers, contractors, the DOt, and manager of the Desoto Bend refuge. They worked twenty four hours a day to repair old levys and build thirty miles of new dikes. They aquired a pump and patrolled the dikes to fix leaks.
On the weekend of June 26 after a heavy thunderstorm, a dike broke and sent a wall of water into several thousand acres of previously dry areas. The back water made water behind the dikes deeper than on the river side. The group asked the Corps of Engineers for permission to open the dike so water could equalize,. The Corps gave them no answer for a couple of days and finally told them they were on their own. It was a private dike and the Corps had no jurisdiction.
The group hired a licensed contractor and on Friday, with little warning, they blew the dike. People are jumpy as it is, and they worried about more flooding especially of the nuclear power plant down stream. It made a sensational news story, and a county attourny hinted darkly charges might be filed. The county determined that the group did nothing wrong, though they should have given local governments and the news media more than five minutes warning.
They were afraid the governments would delay opening the dike until after further study. The group decided it was better to do it and appologize instead of asking permission. I know some of those people.
This is just another example supporting the North Dakota writer’s saying we live in a different culture than folks like you.
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By: James on July 5, 2011
at 9:36 AM
In case someone still doesn’t understand my point, we can live without an appearance by Obama or a Bono concert, but we know hyprocracy when we see it.
Craig, as delurkergurl, PFessor, Noah and others wrote, “hang in there.” Its possible Valery is realizing how alone she really is and that she might die. When death is no longer an abstraction, it plays with your mind. I respect you and your strength in such an unexpected crisis. Do whatever you can to take care of yourself. If talking to a friend or someone else helps, try it.
alaskapi, you are a good person. I haven’t forgotten what you are going through either. Our computer didn’t like the link you posted, so I didn’t get to see it. Obama adimitted it was hard to find “shovel ready jobs’ and joked about it. Dr. Ernie Goss a local economist said on KFAB Omaha a few minutes ago that the stimulus failed because it focused more on governments than on private enterprise.
I agree we need to repair our infrastructure and the stimulus helped in some cases. After this flood, we will need considerable work. However, government employed workers do not create wealth. Their wages help the local economies, and spread wealth to other people and businesses as you wrote. Many of those jobs last as long as the government can pay the wages. The stimulus law failed to create the conditions which would actually make self-sustaining jobs and new wealth. I’m not denegrating the good which came from the stimulus law–just its ultimate failure to create conditions for more private sector jobs than it did. That was Obama’s stated intent.
Oto Katz, don’t hate anyone.It hurts you more than the object of your hatred.
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By: James on July 5, 2011
at 8:12 AM
Jsri, we think we will stock our basement with gold fish and eat them when they get large enough. That will give me more on line time with you.
The Bush administration’s FEMA made many mistakes. It took Bush several days to realize the enormamity of the disaster. I believe he was at a fund raiser when the levy burst and it took him two days to make a public reaction. . His “heck of a job Brownie…” comment showed how out of touch he was. But then, he tried to make up for his neglect.
However, NOP ignores the incompetence of local Democratic officials from the governor on down. Local governments have the first responsibility to deal with emergencies, and they failed. Liberal Democrats share much of the blame for what happened, but it was easier to bash Republicans because it made a great campaign issue. A local news paper reported that one of the most efficient entities giving aid in early days was Wal Mart.
We didn’t need the Mexican Army
here or in the tornado zones. We took care of ourselves. The Corps of Engineers told us what might happen, and we used our own judgment on how to cope. We built our own dikes around our farmsteads and moved possesions to high ground. LIkewise, tornado victims didn’t have to wait for the Mexican Army to repair the damage. They and local governments are doing it themselves.
I repeat. The public reaction of the Obama administration and its allies show them to be hypocrites. The tornado outbreaks and fires were comparable to Hurricane Katrina, and yet, we heard little or nothing from those people. Of course, the government is helping, but the symbolism is striking. I still suspect some of the outrage over Katrina was staged to do political harm to Bush and the Republicans. Obama could have done himself a political favor by visiting the flood zone when he was already in eastern Iowa. People do notice symbolism.
Uaw tradesman, so far, there has been no looting or violence. Clay Jenkinson of The Thomas Jefferson Hour wrote “Squeezing Summer Joy from a Sodden Prairie.” “Our public officials have been uniformaly outstanding, honest, upbeat, and tireless in the face of a crisis they never thought they would have to lead us through…
There has been infinintely more selflessness than selfishness…
We North Dakotans cannot help thinking even though we are too decent to say it out loud that this is decidely not New Orleans. This crisis has brought out in people of Bismark, Mandan, and Minot the triumph rather than collapse of the human spirit. We are not pointing our finger at faraway Washington DC and wailing ‘help us!’ The most we will say is ‘help us help ourselves,” We all know we are going to get through this. We’re the grandchildren of people who got through much worse, people who gave us our resourcefullness and patience, and gumption.”
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By: James on July 5, 2011
at 7:33 AM
I’m a liberal, didn’t get the memo. Who am I supposed to hate?
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By: otto katz on July 5, 2011
at 12:26 AM
No One’s Puppet 30+ broken promises by your Messiah to our nations poor, disabled, sick, elderly and veterans. I’ve noted it doesn’t bother you at all, at least not enough to motivate a single word of support for these people. Again, another Liberal who does not have the mental capacity to argue a persons ideas and has to go for the poster. There was no point to that post other than a bitter and ugly person spewing hate, as is Liberal tradition.
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By: Noah on July 4, 2011
at 10:29 PM
I’ll listen to James’ complaints about a Presidential visit or a Bono concert, when the Mexican Army arrives in Iowa, marching on foot from Mexico City, they were the first responders to the disaster in New Orleans. What a disgraceful day for our country that day.
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By: No One's Puppet on July 4, 2011
at 9:47 PM
Yes, the government is compensated at least for the food for any guest of the President, a little fact you tried to hide
jsri, could you show me how I hid anything? Do you have any idea how pathetic you make yourself look by making these statements? All you do is show people how completely inept and dishonest you are making claims you cannot possibly back up. And fyi kiddo, I made no mention of food. Where do you come up with this nonsense? I have an issue with wife of messiah and mother in law of messiah spending $800,000 of our tax dollars for a little romp across the world when other people are suffering.
As for smearing you Messiah, I guess maybe that is where we get the answer to all this fantasy that you are making up. Just some off the wall crack pot, religions zealot whose false god is being attacked. I don’t have to try and smear him, he does fine smearing himself. I posted over 30 broken promises and have sources to back them all. Step up to the plate and take them on if your able. Otherwise crawl back to the kitchen with the coven.
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By: Noah on July 4, 2011
at 8:13 PM
I went back and read helen’s post…….Iowa and Katrina have been brought up and ………..”It’s called honor Mr. Hannity, Mr. Beck and Mr. Van Susteren… you jackasses. Obama understands it.”
NO HE DOESN’T
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By: uawtradesmanuawtradesman on July 4, 2011
at 8:11 PM
I was going to say
NOP=asshat
but then
jrsi beat her out…..
so James…
tell us about all the looting and raping going on there…..
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By: uawtradesmanuawtradesman on July 4, 2011
at 8:07 PM
Noah: Time to give it up.
Your attempt to sully President Obama’s reputation by a deliberate slur failed because of your ineptitude. Live with it. And give up all the backpedaling.
Yes, the government is compensated at least for the food for any guest of the President, a little fact you tried to hide. It took me about three minutes to find out. You can do the same if you want to give it a try. And other mother-in-laws have resided there in the past, including Mamie Eisenhower’s mother and Bess Truman’s mother.
It would seem that a family values guy like yourself would see the benefit of the arrangement but then again, I suspect family values is a totally foreign concept to you.
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By: jsri on July 4, 2011
at 7:50 PM
Craig- adding best wishes along with others.
Please remember, as long as Helen and Margaret put up with us all stopping by and having all manner of (and lack of manners ) conversation there is a place here to voice your own feelings and concerns. It’s hard on the care provider/partner/family in times of great illness in so many ways often forgotten in the overall picture of the situation.
Take good care of yourself, do what you can, talk to others when you feel down.
Best wishes neighbor.
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By: alaskapi on July 4, 2011
at 7:43 PM
Craig, this is a difficult subject for me because it has hit close to home twice for me. At age 14 my youngest sister was found to have a brain tumor. She fought it until 2 weeks before her 16th birthday. From my personal experience all I can tell you is tough it out. Be whatever she needs you to be. One day it might be a shoulder, the next a punching bag. Pain, especially ongoing pain like this does things to a person. It did my soul a world of good knowing I didn’t succumb to the anger and despair I sometimes felt. If the worst should happen and she passes on, you can never take back the things you didn’t do for her when you could. Things may be hard now, but compared to having to live the rest of your life with regret in my opinion is far far worse.
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By: Noah on July 4, 2011
at 4:47 PM
“And now she is also pushing me away. I feel sorta like beaten down..no matter what I do to say to her that she looks good or that things are working out..I get sarcastic retorts..and I’ve just about had it. Still love her and here for her, but Its a pity party and I don’t want any part of it.”
Craig –
That’s really common – even the usual – but it plays hell on the families. She understands perfectly her situation I’m afraid. That’s why doctors should be immune from ever getting sick – you can’t blow sunshine up their backsides; they know the real score. Call me any time day or night if you want.
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By: pfesser53 on July 4, 2011
at 3:34 PM
and just in case you are as naive as I know you are, we all know your sudden inability to engage in conversation is I blasted your Messiah out of the water and you are unable to articulate any kind of a defense. Just the same as why delurkergurl and her coven fled to the kitchen. Guess when you have had as many houses fall on you as they have you get gun shy.
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By: Noah on July 4, 2011
at 2:42 PM
saw = say
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By: Noah on July 4, 2011
at 2:38 PM
jsri , i see so you want to be able to comment on what I saw but not have to be held accountable. I stand by my original statement and brand you a coward. So be it. I will continue however to hold you accountable for what you say. As for an overinflated opinion of myself, like your fear of having to admit you are wrong, I think you are projecting yourself onto me kiddo.
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By: Noah on July 4, 2011
at 2:38 PM
Being a caregiver is tough, Craig. Hang in there. There’s probably a psychological reason for the distance Val’s putting between you. Just remember that no matter how hard she makes it on you, she has it worse. You’ll both come through this stronger.
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By: delurkergurl on July 4, 2011
at 2:29 PM
Noah
I realize that your wildly inflated opinion of your self would suffer to know that you are the last person in the world that I would want to have a sustained conversation with but that’s just life. Too much like conversing with a child having a perpetual temper tantrum.
Actually the brain transplant is working very well. At least better than the one they found for you in the hog slop.
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By: jsri on July 4, 2011
at 1:42 PM
jsri, once again your ramblings are without any coherent substance, but I am sure they mean something to you at least. For the record I have not backpedaled on anything, I have just tried to engage you in conversation, and even at the most basic level you have failed. Maybe that brain transplant you were in for didn’t go as well as expected?
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By: Noah on July 4, 2011
at 1:13 PM
Thanks to all..for your thoughts and well wishes alaskapi ,James and Helen in Ca.
Good retort there PFessor from MASH. Loved that “movie”.
I come here to escape some time to watch and listen..don’t have energy for fighting anymore.
Val’s chemo has not changed James…Its just that now it has finally hit home..
And now she is also pushing me away. I feel sorta like beaten down..no matter what I do to say to her that she looks good or that things are working out..I get sarcastic retorts..and I’ve just about had it. Still love her and here for her, but Its a pity party and I don’t want any part of it.
Have a safe 4th out there. And do unto others…….
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By: Craig on July 4, 2011
at 1:03 PM
James- the report you are referring to is here.
Different people are getting different takes on it. The simple formula used to say that each job cost us $278,000 ignores many, many things
Click to access cea_7th_arra_report.pdf
not the least of which is the public investment outlay to repair, rebuild, and add to infrastructure. After years and years of deferring maintenance on public facilities all across the country we have done some much needed work which has value beyond the dollars expended to pay people to do it.
In the transportation sector alone here
http://www.dot.state.ak.us/econstim/map.shtml
we have repaired, rebuilt, or expanded transportation facilities we all use. Some of our transportation issues are very different than elsewhere- ferry and air are the way of it here in Southeast, air and limited rail and road systems are the norm further north with so many areas only served by air regularly and barges a couple times a year.
In my area the dollars those employed by the stim work make circulate roughly 4 times in the local economy so there is value there too.
We got a decent deal for our outlay here- on multiple fronts. I hope other areas can say the same if they start really looking at public investment projects.
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By: alaskapi on July 4, 2011
at 10:18 AM
Noah
You amuse me, in a perverse sort of way. If you could pedal forward as fast as you backpedal, you could win the Tour de France in record time.
James:
Isn’t there a sump pump somewhere that needs your attention? Go for it.
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By: jsri on July 4, 2011
at 8:40 AM
It is tragic to see government waste at this level. Can you imagine if Obama had taken GW’s approach and just wrote a check and gave it to the people directly instead of big business like Obama did, how much this would have helped the common man?
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By: Noah on July 4, 2011
at 7:25 AM
According to the President’s Council of Economic Advisers report released on Friday, each new or saved job cost the stimulus program and we tax payers $278,000. per job. It would have been cheaper to give each unemployed a check.
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By: James on July 3, 2011
at 2:00 PM
I remember Noah’s post. It was an honest mistake. Jsri’s comments about my writing style after he said he doesn’t read what I write still show he lied.
I saw something more uplifting today. Flood water is now spreading toward us from the North. Water has crossed and blocked several county roads since Friday. A road a mile and a half northwest of us was partly submerged yesterday. Someone dug a foot and a half dike to stop the water from flowing more than half way across the road. Of course, it is a futile effort, but that little dike illustrates the human spirit when facing adversity..
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By: James on July 3, 2011
at 1:38 PM
jsri, one of the things I will miss about having you here is making so easy to shoot you down, simple minds are often the most fun. Lets begin with the obvious.
And when someone called you on your deliberate distortion
Give me your top twp proofs that it was deliberate if you please. We both know you have none so this would be your deliberate distortion or the truth making ASSumptions.
you tried to put the blame on the reader
Show me where I blamed the reader? I skimmed an article and mistook mother for mother-in-law. I was stating it was probably the mother-in-law rather than the mother, by default admitting I might have been mistaken. Very easy mistake #1. #2 being the mother-in-law does not invalidate my statement of it being wrong for the Messiah’s wife to spend $800,000 tax dollars while the rest of us are suffering out here. Of course it is your political party so you are blind to blatant misuse of tax payer dollars.
You see kiddo, I have no problem admitting I am wrong, when it happens. It is the internet child, what is to fear here? What harm do I suffer admitting when I make a mistake? Answer: none. I think you are projecting your fears onto me. Fortunately I grew up a long time ago, maybe one day you will do sport.
In fact, it is the sort of service that should be available for all citizens and one of my new missions will be assist in making that happen.
Maybe you could start with the guy who robbed a bank for $1 so he could get the medical attention he needed?
After that maybe you can help Obama keep some 30+ broken promises to our nations poor, disabled, sick, elderly and veterans. I’ve noted it doesn’t bother you at all, at least not enough to motivate a single word of support for these people.,
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By: Noah on July 3, 2011
at 1:07 PM
Okay Noah. I scrolled backwards and found your quote and here it is from June 30.
“I don’t know of another President that has done this, maybe some have, but I was a bit astonished to find that the Messiah has his mother living with them at the White house. Wonder what that is costing tax payers?”
And when someone called you on your deliberate distortion (or is it an inept distortion) you tried slithering away like a snake with the following
“mother in law then maybe kiddo?”
Since you were caught with your pants down, you tried to put the blame on the reader instead of manning up and admitting you were wrong. I’d say that’s a pretty good description of a coward.
And Pfesser53 on July 2
jsri –
I’m sorry about your illness. Perhaps your anger over your own situation is coloring your perceptions. Just a little, maybe?
Maybe if you are a little less angry in your posts, others will be too.
Pfesser, your swing for the fences was nothing more that a pop up to the catcher.
I’m not at all angry with my medical situation. In fact I’ve just been through a series of procedures that demonstrate the capabilities of our medical services and I couldn’t be more pleased. In fact, it is the sort of service that should be available for all citizens and one of my new missions will be assist in making that happen. How is yet to be determined but being in my situation has given me some valuable insights.
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By: jsri on July 3, 2011
at 11:58 AM
having chewed a little more on jsri’s post some, Ive come to the conclusion this person is a coward of the first order. Post…spew some hate at those who have gotten the intellectual best of him/her/it at every turn then state they are not coming back. True character came out at the end, not that we didn’t already know.
I think with the exception of a precious few, most Liberals don’t buy their own BS agenda. Why else would they continuously launch these personal attacks when their beliefs should be able to stand on their own, that is, if they had any merit. Since they don’t and its all about personal need and greed, they attack the poster rather than the idea.
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By: Noah on July 2, 2011
at 11:21 PM
jsri, is that the best you can do?
Your “mind dumps” have proven to be less than adequate even for bad fiction. You wrote you don’t read what I write, so how would you know if my posts wouldn’t pass a junior high test unless you read them? You have defacto admitted you lie. Thus, you are accusing Noah of what you do.
You left my “favorites list” a long time ago.
“Goddammit, Hot Lipes, Resign your goddam commission!”
Make my day.
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By: James on July 2, 2011
at 3:39 PM
jsri –
Oh, and one more thing:
“This site has become a total wasteland and has now been removed from my favorites list.”
Forgive me; I will presume to speak for many commenters here:
Goddammit, Hot Lips, RESIGN your goddamn commission!
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By: pfesser53 on July 2, 2011
at 2:59 PM
jsri –
I’m sorry about your illness. Perhaps your anger over your own situation is coloring your perceptions. Just a little, maybe?
Maybe if you are a little less angry in your posts, others will be too.
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By: pfesser53 on July 2, 2011
at 2:47 PM
I post a lot jsri, so why not be…i don’t know…precise and less vague and come up with what you think it is I might have lied about. I know being precise is sticking your neck out and making you accountable and doesn’t give you any wiggle room.
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By: Noah on July 2, 2011
at 1:51 PM
Good Grief!
Been in the hospital for the past week and a half only to return to find that the same old hatred and vitriol is spewing forth from the same tiresome characters. Noah, you should be ashamed of your self getting caught in a blatant and bold faced lie about the Obamas but I‘ve also got to make note of your gall in trying to pass it off as a misunderstanding by the readers. Why are you so evil?
And James:
I see that your usual mind dumps are no more interesting than they usually are. If they were answers to junior high school essay tests you’d fail just about every time.
This site has become a total wasteland and has now been removed from my favorites list.
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By: jsri on July 2, 2011
at 1:13 PM
Craig, my best to you and Valerie. Just to let you know that there is hope at the end of the looooooooong chemo/radiation tunnel. I finished the last of two separate chemo treatments (after a double radical mastectomy in July) in Nov. 2010, started radiation 5 days a week mid-Dec. and finished it late Jan. this year. Thought I would not survive radiation I was burned so bad, it was horrible, much worse than chemo.
Today, I have my hair back, I’m able to swim three time a week in aqua aerobics and walk every day 30+ minutes. I could not have done any of that before I was diagnosed with cancer.. The difference in my life since February is 180 degrees. So both of you keep the FAITH as it does get better. My prayers are with you all and your family. Hang in there!!!
Helen Lee-Bryant
Santa Rosa, CA
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By: elenalb on July 2, 2011
at 12:23 PM
I forgot to type my name.
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By: James on July 2, 2011
at 11:25 AM
alaskapi, I’m glad you did it. Revelations like that make you more than words on a screen. I agree about arguing politics. It is just a game like chess or checkers. Our daughter was home from college and we were arguing loudly for a couple of hours. My wife got tired of it and told us to stop. Our daughter said “but Mom, nobody at college argues like Dad does.” He probably thought the same of you.
My father in law never praised my wife, and she spent a good part of her young life achieving so that maybe the next big thing would impress him. Years later, my wife learned how proud her father was of his daughter. He spent much of his time bragging about her to his customers. She was the apple of his eye, and she never knew until she was grown with children of her own.
One of my most vivid memories is the first time my wife’s father didn’t remember who she was.Up till then, his daughter was the one person he recognized. My wife took it in good humor and finally revived her father’s memory. My wife and our son left before our daughter and me. When we left the room, we saw our fifteen year old son holding his mother as she cried.
“It was just an old hand me down Ford
with three speeds on the column
and an old dent in the door
a young boy, two hands on the wheel
I can;t replace how it made me feel
And I would press that clutch
and I’d keep it right
and he’d say just a little slower son
you’re doing just fine
But I was Mario Andretti
when Daddy let me drive
I’m grown up now
three daugters of my own
One day they will reach back in their file
pull out the memory
think if me and smile
and he’d say ‘turn it left
straighten up. your doing just fine”
It was just a little valley
but I was high on the mountain
when Daddy let me drive”
Allen Jackson in honor of his late father.
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By: Anonymous on July 2, 2011
at 11:22 AM
Elsie, my friend, I did not intend to bring sadness here but I guess I did.
Some days I feel sad, some days I feel angry, some days I just need to sit a spell and rest but most days I have hope we can all surround Dad with love and allow him some continuance of dignity as he struggles with losing his sense of self and purpose.
It is his struggle which makes me the saddest. I can lay my own sense of loss to the side most days- there will be a time to take that up fully later on.
I think I was trying to say that all too often political differences can become a thing in and of themselves and divorced from everyday life and people. Didn’t do a very good job of it 🙂
Dad and I used to argue about economics, international relations, and suchlike all the time but we talked and listened to each other about the things which touch us most closely- family, gender role changes, religion, community, self-reliance. I have come to think of the latter as a series of letters written as from afar ending in the discovery that we were actually sitting on the same couch next to each other in so many respects.
Pfesser-
The greatest gift from my Dad, as I’ve said before, was the allowing me to be myself. I grew to understand many of the difficulties with that when I was a parent myself and trying to do the same.
I got my britches in a bunch when I was a teen and was whining at a friend about the 2 times Dad had been unfair to me.
The friend looked at me and laughed. Told me I had no clue about fairness if I’d only had to deal with unfairness twice and to get over my sorry self . Her folks were locked in an endless struggle for power in their marraige and used the kids as pawns in their battles- it was so awful it was obvious to all of us even as self absorbed teens.
Somewhere in there I began considering what fights were worthwhile and what to let slide. It’s been a long process and I’m not sure I’ll have it sorted out before I go 🙂
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By: alaskapi on July 2, 2011
at 9:23 AM
alaskapi –
It’s really tough. When he was alive, my Dad and I had a lot of arguments and misunderstandings, as did my brother (now dead) and I. At times I think I should have just let it go, as my Mom suggested – and I did a lot of it. But you can’t let yourself become a doormat, and that’s exactly what aggressive individuals will do to you if you don’t stand up for yourself at some point.
Maybe the high schools, in between such essentials as bicycle safety and watching in-class movies, could teach some things like how to balance a checkbook, raise kids or even how to resolve conflict constructively. It sure would have made my life a lot better.
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By: pfesser53 on July 2, 2011
at 6:08 AM
alsakai, I feel the same sadness for you that Elsie feels. I repeat what she wrote. My father in law took the same trip, and it was hard. The only bit of comfort I will attempt is to remind you that in some way, both of your parents live on in you.
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By: James on July 2, 2011
at 5:54 AM
I saw alaskapi dropped by. My first thought was that it’s always good to see the latest thoughts from this good friend of Helen’s.
Tonight, alaskapi, I feel a real sadness for you, your ma and your dad. I believe your wisdom and the calm way of looking at things that you share with us here are largely the result of a lifetime shared with you by your loving family. I just wish I could comfort you somehow, Old Friend, as your dad moves into this next phase of his life.
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 9:55 PM
LOL James-
My conservative pop and I argued a lot about politics until a very short time ago
Ma sent us both down from the table one night because she said we had crossed out of the bounds of civility and besides we were both wrong 🙂
Mostly we had great fun at it .
As Dad , at almost 90, moves into Alzheimers now, I miss him tipping his head back, squinting, and saying, “ah, horsepunky!” when confronted with a preposterous notion of any sort, not hollering, not angry, just sure, as much as I miss his
twinkling eyes and deep chuckle.
And ma was right all those years ago- things have mostly fallen in the middle of what Dad and I thought they should oughta be but I’m not telling her I see that.
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By: alaskapi on July 1, 2011
at 7:06 PM
Thank you Elsie. No the pictures don’t do what is happening on the surface justice. It was a shock when the Corps of Engineers around June 1 told our towns we had to evacuate in as little as two weeks because up to over ten feet of water would cover the area until possibly January.The innundation maps were scary because unlike me, most people had never been in a flood. Activity was feverish as people hauled grain, built dikes, and filled sandbags.
Then most of them moved after power companies turned off the lights and the postal service discontinued mail deliveries in some places. August 23 will be a red letter day, because that is when the Corps plan to reduce the dams’ water releases.
PFessor, I assume the same about NOP. Its why I gave links so anyone can see for him/herself what is happening.
An Omaha television station reported that a quarter of area businesses are suffering financially because of the flood. They also interviewed many confused travelers from as far away as Seattle who learned their GPS programs didn’t account for the detours. They are buying road maps.
Meanwhile much of the West is having some of the best summer skiing in years.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 7:05 PM
James –
I’m not sure what happened with NOP, but looking back, there are at least a hundred times I wish I could take back what I said, so I’m just going to put it down to a brain fart.
Happens to everybody.
Onward.
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By: pfesser53 on July 1, 2011
at 4:04 PM
James, those aerial photos are really awful. And they don’t even begin to tell the tales of any real part of the anguish and sadness on the ground, do they? Take care.
Craig, I send some virtual red-white-and-blue sparklers, and good wishes, to you and Val that you both get through all this medical care, and come out on the other side with good health and many more years of happiness together. Hang in there. And, remember to take care of yourself so that you have the energy to take care of Val.
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 4:03 PM
Thanks Noah. I wish someone from the fire zones could tell us what it is like there. That’s what I’m trying to do- to share what is not in the papers..
Alaskapi, the essence of the smile reached me. It felt peaceful. Thanks. I’m friends with many people who disagree with me politically and religously. Such things don’t mean much to me. I hope we could be friends if we lived near each other.My father-in law, a liberal Democrat and I had loud political arguments, but it was all in fun. Sometimes, we’d switch sides to make it interesting. I miss him.
PFessor, you asked about how the flood may affect the local economy. Dr. Earny Goss, a University of Nebraska economist said the economy is slipping, and he is worried about a local recession in the future. Problem areas are the national economy, the flood, and rising cost of transportation and energy which is related to he flood. Hangnail my foot!!.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 3:24 PM
Completely lacking self-awareness, Noah repeatedly calls the kettle black. Comedy gold.
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By: Anonymous on July 1, 2011
at 3:09 PM
Craig-
Sending very best wishes to you and Val. Chemo does come with a price. It takes a lot of work to stay ahead of all that .
Somewhere I have a photo of my ma from 4th of July many years ago . Her skin was pale and her cheeks sunken from the chemo she was undergoing at the time. She couldn’t tolerate much in the way of food then except for smoothie concoctions her oncologist’s nutritionist had her making.
She had had the last wisps of her hair moussed in spikes and great swatches of red white and blue painted across her forehead. She looked like the Statue of Liberty without hair 🙂
She had a huge smile in that pic. She enjoyed the town celebration and family get together very much that day even though it all wore her down so.
Trying to send the essence of that smile across the “tubes’ in hoping the very best for you two.
As usual I disagree with you politically, and James too, but none of it matters enough today to get flapped about.
Thanks Elsie! Leah does good work- good to see you are tuned into her work too, Pfesser.
Be safe James.
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By: alaskapi on July 1, 2011
at 2:54 PM
James, Put aside NOP’s ignorance and hate. Many of us here appreciate updates from someone that is actually there rather than relying on the media to give us the story. In fact I find it very valuable to compare your experience and contrast it to what the media says.
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By: Noah on July 1, 2011
at 2:15 PM
Craig, I have wondered about you and Valery. I ‘m sorry. I hope this is something she and you can surrount. Is her reaction normal for the treatment she is recieving.
NOP, this isn’t about Bush or Obama. It concerns peoples’ use of disasters for political gain. Bush flew over the disaster area to avoid hurting the rescue effort, and the press excoriated him for not caring. Some even said Bush hated black people. Yes, a presidential visit is merely a symbol. Until now, visiting disaster areas and feeling our pain was part of the job. Bill Clinton was a master of the quivering lip.
Given the criticism of Bush for being slow to visit and the silence surrounding Obama’s absence one must conclude a double standard is in play. Bush ordered up what ever it took to help Katrina victims, and still his critics excorriated him. Two Iowa politicians asked Obama to visit the flood zone, but he refused. How else would one explain the difference?
No, our plight shouldn’t be Obama’s top concern, but it should rank up there with his fund raisers and golf games. I’m not upset with Obama. I’m reminding people of the double standard.
Our region will not get as much financial aid as victims of Katrina got, nor should we. Our government cannot afford it. We are also better able than Katrina victims to take care of ourselves- at least if the press of the time is to be believed.
I am not being overly dramatic. Our situation is worse than a hangnail compared to a car wreck. True, only two people that I know of have died so far, but this is more a crisis of economics than physical safety. It also extends from southern Canada to the Gulf. That is more than a hangnail, and it is an emergency in slow motion.
This is only the beginning. A flood lasting months will produce serious consequences. The Corps of Engineers tell us some people will not be able to return to their homes until January. That is no hangnail.
Educate yourself. Google KFAB. com and look at the flood page. one areal video shows the dikes failing at Percival, Iowa early yesterday.
My wife and I wondered why an airplane was circling our farm two days ago and yesterday. Now we know. Google Missouri River flood 2011-Lee Valley Inc, and look at the first page of June 29. One of the pictures shows part of our farm. Lee Valley is a Nebraska farming and used machinery dealership. They also are crop dusters. Look at the water and remember it will be there for many more months. We may be ice skating on some of that water.
If you trouble yourself, this will probably be the first and last time you get to see my natural habitat.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 2:09 PM
Why are we letting them redefine our language and turn this into a Movement that will exclude all who are not like them – including mainline Christians as well as all other faith and non-faith citizens in the United States?
But Elsie, that is exactly what your kind does. We have thousands of posts on here to prove it. You and your kinds intolerance of others in legend.
Like Bristle said…
And the stalking of the Palins continues, what public office has Bristle ever held? What a bunch of psychos.
As for No One’s Puppet, just ignore the piece of trash. This is her typical MO nothing more. She had no point to make, just here to spread his/her/its particular brand of hate. This was no different than when NOP attacked me, my wife and kid because I posted on this board. This piece of skum is just another Liberal willing to do anything to win.
Still amazed, though by now I am starting to wonder why I am still amazed, that not one Liberal has any problem with those in our country being hurt the most and in need of help the most have been forgotten and are suffering due to Obama’s broken promises.
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By: Noah on July 1, 2011
at 1:42 PM
Elsie –
““…of all of the places to wear a crucifix, who puts one right above their naughty bits?””
Where is Andres Serrano when you need him? LOL
I think Sarah is probably more of a St. Andrew’s cross kind of gal. just sayin’…
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By: pfesser53 on July 1, 2011
at 12:49 PM
Elsie –
I correspond with Leah Burton and Gryphen occasionally. Believe me, there are myriad people like them – and me – who keep very close tabs on the Dominionist movement. It WILL NOT happen, so rest easy. Leah especially is tremendously influential in the fight to keep Church and State separate.
Did you see Immoral Minority’s blog entry on the sales of Bristol’s “book?” “There were tens of people” there. LOL
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By: pfesser53 on July 1, 2011
at 12:42 PM
All things considered, do you really think your plight, should be President Obama’s top priority at the moment? I for one never gave a damn if President Bush visited New Orleans, I wanted him to order up the military or anyone else with helicopters to get bottled water into the city.
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By: No One's Puppet on July 1, 2011
at 12:38 PM
All things considered, do you really think your plight, should be President Obama’s top priority at the moment? I for one never gave a damn if President Bush visited New Orleans, I wanted him to order up the military or anyone else with helicopters to get bottled water into the city. That is why I think you are being overly dramatic, the President must come to western Iowa and prove his concern? Why shouldn’t an emergency room physician drop what he is doing, saving the life of a auto accident victim, to tend to your hangnail, because everyone knows your hangnail could lead to blood poisoning? I guess if you are the hangnail patient, you think, he should drop everything else. Just because it is you, James, doesn’t mean that it is an emergency, and even if it is treated as a nonemergency now doesn’t mean you have been forgotten. There will be disaster relief for you as soon as possible, and if you think about it, you’ll realize that is the case.
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By: No One's Puppet on July 1, 2011
at 12:32 PM
Make that “27 children” having to deal with not women..that Bachmann has to deal with…
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By: Craig on July 1, 2011
at 12:22 PM
PFesser ,
Been a while….I quickly looked over the blog a lil ways to see what was going on.
Referring to your June 27th post about Huntsman.
I think at one time or another I did say I liked what I heard and saw of the “man” as well.
I don’t know that much about Bachmann other than she has 27 women and live in a shoe. I think its great that someone will tackle taking on foster children..however at what expense to the natural born childrens emotional needs..however thats a personal issue and if she can do it more power to her.
I might prefer a President who does not have to worry about 27 children or a nanny/husband. Don’t know how they do it financially..but again a private issue.
Now to Gov.Perry. I know I’m gonna catch a lot of heat about this..but as you know he may announce running for POTUS. Texas has done well during the down economy. Cannot say its been all his great leadership..but we have done well and better than most other states. That’s not counting education though which we all could do better at. So who am I for…?
Best answer is who I’m against….OBAMA. Cannot go another 4 years with his lack of leadership and grandstanding on others efforts and achievements.
His wife and kids also need to find another cheaper way to have a summer vacation rather than going to visit Mandela in South Africa on the U.S. taxpayers dime.
End of story.
Reason I have not posted is Valerie is not doing well. Many physical symptoms related to the CHemo treatments have made their appearance in last three weeks and its been a very emotional time…as well as helping her physically now that the Chemo drugs have beat her into submission. They are working..but at a price.
Best to all on the right and left.
Craig
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By: Craig on July 1, 2011
at 12:16 PM
NOP, I was illustrating a point about the president’s lack of concern. I was also illustrating the hyprocracy of his allies in the entertainment world. His failure to visit these and other disaster areas tells us something about the man. The double standard tells us more about Bush’s critics. That is what I was noting, not Obama’s failure to visit the flood zone, tornado areas, or the fire and drought in the Southwest. I am not mad at Obama for his failure to visit. As Rham Imanuel said never wast a crisis. Our disaster’s exposing the double standard is too good to waste.
Former Iowa governor and current Security of Agriculture Vilsack visited the region and told us not to expect much financial aid because of budget constraints. Of course, we will get some money from crop insurance, and I suspect there will be a disaster payment as well as low interest loans because Obama signed the order declaring us a disaster area.
Crop insurance only pays enough to replace a lost crop, and sometimes less. It will only reduce the financial impact of the loss. The date of payment can be uncertain. That is why I wrote we have lost a third of our immediate income so far. In 1989 after we lost a crop, we had to pay our $11000.00 in property taxes with a a credit card because the insurance check was late. No one knows if our flooded land will be farmible next year or if it will produce an economically viable crop. Some authorities say up to ten years will pass before the land is back to normal. I think they are being pesimistic, but I don’t know.
We like most of our neighbors have no flood insurance because the last flood occurred fifty years ago at home and forty years ago on our flooded farm.
People in town will have to follow building codes to repair their homes. Several months of water inside of a dwelling for several months will likely feed mold. Regulations require practically gutting a house to get rid of the mold etc. Many home owners cannot afford the cost. Some older homes have an asbestus problem. Our economic development person told us sand bags become toxic waste which must be removed according to environmental procedures.
Iowa, I think, has just announced that displaced persons can now live on state camp grounds without paying for the rest of the summer.
The only comparison I have made with Katrina is the politicians and celebraties’ reactions to the two disasters. This flood may eventually affect you indirectly.
.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 12:12 PM
Just too funny…..
“…of all of the places to wear a crucifix, who puts one right above their naughty bits?”
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/06/reason-for-palins-belt-buckle-crucifix.html
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 11:37 AM
Damn. I took a quick look back and found that my notation indicating an excerpt from Leah’s web site was following, and the notation was also deleted. I am reproducing her own words, so I mean for them to be attributed to her. So, I’m trying again.
***
from Leah’s blog:
“….STOP calling it “social conservatism”. Call it what it IS! Religious politics – and even more specifically Christian Dominionist politics. That is a very narrow group and they are a minority. Why are we letting them redefine our language and turn this into a Movement that will exclude all who are not like them – including mainline Christians as well as all other faith and non-faith citizens in the United States?”
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 11:15 AM
One last thing…. up there when I first said, “You would love Leah Burton’s blog, too…. You can find it at “gods own party dot com” but without the spaces.”
I used some punctuation in the original submission that deleted the phrase there completely by accident. So, I’ve tried again, just so you have the basic web site for Leah’s blog, titled “God’s Own Party”, aka the Gee OH Pee-ers.
Okay, I’m outahere. Be good.
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 11:09 AM
Thank you Elsie. Many people have said the worst feeling is the uncertainty. Not even the experts can tell us what will happen, because nobody knows. One can feel secure and discover water crossing the back yard within minutes as happened last weekend and yesterday. Others have evacuated and their houses are still dry.
A radio announcer in Minot, ND said she met with her staff several hours after she lost her home. After a cry, she told them, including many who had also lost their homes they had a job to do, to report what was happening.
Thank you again and have a happy fourth.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 11:07 AM
This is your statement, James, that set me off and I stand by my previous criticism. “Obama was in eastern Iowa on a jobs tour. He didn’t visit the flood zone. Remember Katrina and the uproar when Bush was slow to visit the damage zone. Obama was in eastern Iowa and didn’t extend his trip to the flood zone. Crickets..” If you were a newborn infant, those face was wrinkled and gaunt from dehydration and you had a CNN camera right in your face, I’d be cussing the President right along with you. You and I both know, you and your neighbors will receive financial help for your loses later on, so don’t kid a kidder.
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By: No One's Puppet on July 1, 2011
at 11:06 AM
To the progressives who read Helen’s site:
Like Bristle said in her book when she demeaned her baby daddy and called him a gnat, there often seems to be some buzzing noise here on Helen’s site these days. Just scroll on by the annoyances, and have a great weekend.
As always, keep the mosquito spray handy, and don’t let the annoying gnats and other bugs get you down.
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 11:04 AM
And, finally, let me re-cap the excellent info found at
http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what-has-obama-done-since-january-20-2009.html
An EXTENSIVE list of accomplishments follows. For Helen’s progressives who try to keep up with political specifics, you might want to bookmark this site, too.
Have a great weekend.
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 10:59 AM
Hey, one more thing for the progressives who read this blog:
You would love Leah Burton’s blog, too…. You can find it at but without the spaces.
Here’s a great link, though, that is related:
http://godsownparty.com/blog/2011/06/definition-social-conservative-dominionist-politics/
And, here’s an interesting excerpt about denying the usurpation of the term “social conservatism” and calling it what it really is….”religious politics”….
….STOP calling it “social conservatism”. Call it what it IS! Religious politics – and even more specifically Christian Dominionist politics. That is a very narrow group and they are a minority. Why are we letting them redefine our language and turn this into a Movement that will exclude all who are not like them – including mainline Christians as well as all other faith and non-faith citizens in the United States?
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 10:54 AM
And our Elsie has responded and as predicted, she is one of those Liberals who would sell her country and her kids/grand kids down the river to “win” Elsie has now verified taht she has no issue with the 30+ broken promises Obama has broke to our nations poor, disabled, sick, elderly and veterans. At least not enough of a problem to motivate a single word of support for these people.
And who is this Palin these stalker Liberals keep talking about? What public office does she currently hold that gets these psychos so worked up about her?
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By: Noah on July 1, 2011
at 10:53 AM
James, periodically, I catch up a little here with your extremely sad situation there in your home state. I really hope that things improve for you soon. What a nightmare to be living all that, week after week. Best regards to you and yours.
***
For any progressives who might still look in here, occasionally, for more of Helen’s wit and commentary, I’d like to bring you an interesting link today:
Take a look to see some comparisons between Palin and Perry as the inept governors that they were/are. You may even want to bookmark that excellent commentary today.
Have a great fourth, everyone!
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By: Elsie on July 1, 2011
at 10:41 AM
And another thing, NOP. We have lost a third of our income so far and may lose more. We are still moving things to higher ground and watching a stream on our farm which a couple heavy rains could send over its banks.
. Do you really think I could have driven to see obama in eastern Iowa if I wanted to? Were you being snide or were you as clueless as your comment seemed. What were you thinking to write something so stupid? Unlike the Pfessor, I don’t feel very civil right now. I feel an entire region and social class has been insulted.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 10:36 AM
NOP, your comments surprise me. I have written several times that my wife and I are lucky. I told Honolulu Sally my wife and I considered ourselves to be rich because nine people offered to help us move or give us a place to stay. My empathy is strong because I know how it feels to be a refugee and to rebuild from nothing. We relied on the kindness of others during a flood when I was a boy. We rebuilt our house from an empty shell, and my parents were in debt for years.
Three years ago, a tornado left us without water or electricity for days, and we paid over $8,000 to fix the damage.
Many people are living in camp grounds because they have lost everything. Consider what condition a house will be in after months of flooding. It will be a total loss, especially if it is in town and subject to building codes. Many people are paying rent in other places and must also pay mortguages and taxes on ruined homes.
Unlike Katrina, this is a slow motion disaster and it covers property from southern Canada to the Gulf. Its true the victims of that hurricane lost everything in a few hours. However, some of those people sat on roofs or had no electricity because of the inadequate reaction of the liberal local and state governments.
Tornadoes destroyed much of Mapleton, Iowa, Joplin, Missouri, and other places. Those people had as little as victims of Katrina, but they helped themselves and are rebuilding without the public acknowledgement of a president or wealthy celebraties. Not one of them as far as I know, put a “Help Me” sign on a roof.
Besides the fires, another slow motion disaster is the southern drought which steals daily. We haven’t heard much about them after the initial emergency.
How dare you accuse me of not being empathetic! We and our church have donated money to the hurricane and tornado victims. People from here worked to help them, and provided homes for Katrina victims,some of whom decided to settle here.
I didn’t want to see the President. I was making a point to illustrate this man’s callous feeling for people who are not his political kind. I don’t believe he and his fellow travelers really cared about the victims of Katrina as much as they wanted to use them as a political weapon against the hated Bush.
I have been telling you what is happening because the press fails to. There has been no self pity.
Your ideological self righteousness makes me wonder if you have ever survived a disaster. Your empathy seems to be ideological.
Your post is a dissapointment. I thought you were different.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 10:25 AM
Helen, Big Hugs and lots of love! I have been where you are now, and it’s not easy. Take good care of yourself! Be especially careful to pay close attention to what you are doing; I nearly killed myself through a moment’s inattention a few months after I lost my husband. My slogan is “Be Here Now”…with focus and awareness~!
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By: ~ Sil in Corea on July 1, 2011
at 10:04 AM
heh Uncle Sugar, I like that. Mind if I borrow it?
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By: Noah on July 1, 2011
at 9:42 AM
hour=your
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By: Noah on July 1, 2011
at 9:40 AM
NOP –
I’m trying to be more civil these days, so just let me say your comment leaves me speechless.
To my untrained eye there are two differences: firstly, Katrina struck viciously and intensely in a densely populated area; the midwest has a little more time to react.
But having said that, secondly: not to be callous myself – but there is a different type of people who live in the farming communities vis a vis New Orleans. They have not been bred generation after generation to depend on Uncle Sugar for every want and need – which is to say they have not been conditioned into passivity and helplessness, hanging out waiting for the gub’ment to come rescue then while hundreds of perfectly usable school buses sit empty and silent.
No, you won’t see anybody in Omaha on his roof with a sign, “HELP US!” You will find those people down in boats helping themselves.
Not very PC, but I believe VERY true.
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By: pfesser53 on July 1, 2011
at 9:38 AM
Thank you everyone for your concern. As I wrote before, we consider ourselves lucky to still be at home.
Another effect of the flood is migrating animals. People who never saw a badger, wild turkey, or coyote now have them visiting their lawns.
My cousin who has two hundred acres of land under water visited their farm and said two fawns followed her.
Yes, I remember the other disasters Obama barely acknowledged if at all. He and his wife remind me of Marie Antonette. Much worse, is the Democratic propaganda wing of the party who pose as objective reporters. Their frenzy to find something in her e mails which would drive the final stake through Sarah Palins political heart was as disgusting as their current attempt to personally destroy Barbara Bachmann. She makes many gaffs, but so do Obama and other Democratic politicians.
Liberal leaders consider women and minorities to be their property. If one steps out of line she/he must be destroyed lest others follow suit.
One of Nancy Pelosi’s staff workers said though she would never vote for Bachmann she thought the press’s treatment of her was wrong and anti -woman.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 9:37 AM
No One’s Puppet the real question is why are you asking. His situation does not need to be the worst in recorded history to make it a bad event to live through. I am curious as to what your motivations are to bring up this point and what you are trying or hoping to accomplish by the effort? Is it just another of hour dozens of personal attacks? Are you just in another of your petty moods? This is genuine curiosity, I want to understand your motivations.
Also of note, No One’s Puppet has no problem with the 30+ broken promises Obama has broke to our nations poor, disabled, sick, elderly and veterans. At least not enough problem to motivate a single word of support for these people.
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By: Noah on July 1, 2011
at 9:32 AM
Not to be callous, but what is James going through? He has food, water, electricity, Internet; how does that compare to New Orleans, where babies and the elderly had no WATER, no food, no air conditioning, and the facilities were over flowing? Seems he is the only one still at home there and he thinks the President should stop by, James has a vehicle, why didn’t he drive to Eastern Iowa to see the President, if he wanted to talk to him? Sorry James, but that is how I see it. Everything changes when it is about you, maybe you will learn to empathize from this experience, be grateful for what you do have.
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By: No One's Puppet on July 1, 2011
at 9:11 AM
PFessor, nobody knows how high the water will go because we have never had a flood like this. Baring serious changes, we should be at the peak now. The Corps of Engineers reps told me they had expected river stages to be higher than they are by now. The wide expanse of flood water spreads any increased flow over a wide area, so river stages are getting harder to change. Moreover, any burst levy down stream as happened yesterday reduces pressure up stream and lowers the river level slightly for a while.
Omaha’s river depth is about 36 feet, seven feet over flood stage. Excluding heavy rain or a mountain hot spell, the flood should reach a period of stability now with future extensive changes dependent on rain, the levy system, roads, and the interstate which act as dikes. Omaha’s and Sioux City’s river depth is forecast to remain steady or fall a bit for the foreseeable future.
The Corps of Engineers plan to keep releasing 160,000 cubic feet of water per second until August 23 and slowly reduce the flow thereafter. They hope to get the Missouri River below flood stage sometime in September, October or November. Even so residents of some evacuated towns were warned not to plan to be home before January. I think some ponds will remain until next June.
Our economy is good. I think the last unemployment figures for the Omaha area were about 4.6%. The average for the area should be up to 5 or 6%. Our church food pantry does a brisk business as do others, so some people were hurting before the flood. I think our economy will suffer. It already shows signs.
It is hard to get around, and this impacts commuters and transporters of goods. The inflationary pressure is high because of the higher cost. Some commuters and flood victims are living in their campers on camp grounds. If this continues into fall and winter, local governments will have to cope with people who need more substantial shelter.
The ghost towns may not recover in the short term, because the longer this lasts, the more likely businesses and people will adapt to new areas. Farmers are taking a hit, and many have abandoned their land and homes for the duration. Some will have no income save crop insurance and possible disaster payments. Their ability to plant another crop next year and possible yields are in question. It may take years to revive the land’s fertility.
Thousands of acers of land were suddenly flooded last Sunday when the dike broke, but now the DOT has decided the detour H 30 to Blair, Neb must be saved at all costs. It is closed now as workers erect a four foot barrior to slow the flow of water across the highway. it will be reopened and closed again to build more.
I 29 is also closed north of us, but the DOT is doing similar work to keep it open as long as possible. This work will also reduce flooding on areas down stream of the highways.
Parts of I 29 may be out of commission for two years or more because of water damage. Other roads have been washed out. Detours are deteriorating faster than scheduled because of heavy traffic. Dikes will have to be rebuilt by next spring if possible.
OPPD anounced they will raise their electricity rates because of the flood. A nuclear power plant worker was seriously burned several days ago. Both power plants are down, and their managers think they are safe, but a good widespread rain could change that. Water is in the buildings but water tight doors protect dangerous machines and material.
School districts, including ours may not survive intact because so many families may not return. One district south of us offers free housing to any family with students in the school.
Omaha’s airport may be flooded, though they are doing every thing they can to save it. A levy might break and flood much of east Omaha, or one could take part of Council Bluffs. These events would be major blows to the economy.
I think the economy will be like that of the Germanies after the Soviet Union fell. East Germany was economically depressed while the West was wealthy. Our dry and flooded areas will meet somewhere in the middle as the Germanies did. My wife and I have lost a third of our immediate income, and others have lost more. This will reverberate through the local and regional economy.
Cedar Rapids, Iowa still has not recovered from a huge flood three years ago. Likewise for victims of Katrina. The effects of this flood will last for years.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 9:06 AM
Jsri and Jean mocked me for writing on subjects for which I had no formal training.
To that I say BS. We are all just having a conversation here. You don’t have to know every nuance of a topic to have an intelligent opinion.
Jsri also mocked my folksy, rural writing style.
Liberals attack those not like them personally because intellectually they cannot defend the ideology they profess to be true, so they go after the poster. Discredit the poster and you discredit what they say, or at least that is what they think. Sadly I have found less than a handful of Liberals in all my time on here who can engage ideas and not make personal attacks. You will never find a more intolerant, bigoted, hateful group of people than those in the Liberal party and on this board.
Jame, the wife and I talk about you guys daily and what you are going through. We pray for a good outcome. Obama didn’t stop out I am sure because there is not a dense enough Liberal voter block to make it worth his time.
Also noting not one Liberal has any problem to date with any of the 30+ broken promises Obama has broke to our nations poor, disabled, sick, elderly and veterans. Party of the people my ass.
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By: Noah on July 1, 2011
at 8:08 AM
James,
That’s a pattern of The One. He doesn’t give a damn about people – especially red state people. Case in point – the Texas wildfires. Obama gives a great damn about reelection. The man is nothing if a malicious narcissist, gaffe a minute and buffoon.
Point: Do you remember the horrific Tennessee floods (much larger than New Orleans) of 2009? Obama was Haiti and California, frolicking or posing for the camera. Probably got in a little golf and shot some hoops. He eventually made it to Memphis to speak at a high school commencement, but it was days after the disaster and it was Nashville, not Memphis, that took the brunt of the flooding.
JSRI and Jean talk about a lot of things of which they are clueless – see Auntie Jean’s ignorant post from above. Consider them a source of amusement, that which to be mocked and laughed at, and nothing more. Doubling down on stupid. 😉
Been thinking about you, and hope you continue to stay safe and dry.
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By: Wayne Perram on July 1, 2011
at 8:08 AM
The last post was mine.
Obama was in eastern Iowa on a jobs tour. He didn’t visit the flood zone. Remember Katrina and the uproar when Bush was slow to visit the damage zone. Obama was in eastern Iowa and didn’t extend his trip to the flood zone. Crickets..
The Daily Telegraph reports nearly 100,000 British patients receive inadequate palitave care under the British health system. Will more people die under Obamacare or the current private system we still have? I vote for Obamacare.
British public unions are striking and making a fuss much as the Wisconsin public employees unions did.
According to Betsy’s Page some Wisconsin school districts are already benefiting from that state’s victory over the unions.
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By: James on July 1, 2011
at 7:37 AM
James –
How much higher is the water predicted to go and when will it peak?
What is the recession rate predicted to be? How soon before the streams are back in in their banks? I am hearing several months or more.
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By: pfesser53 on July 1, 2011
at 7:14 AM
Jsri and Jean mocked me for writing on subjects for which I had no formal training. The fact that my conclusions were supported by fact had no effect on them. I should let my intellectual betters, namely them handle the subjects they had trained for. My story again proves them wrong.
In 2006, we dug a twelve foot section of our mostly dry lake to uncover one of the springs which used to feed it. It was during a drought year, but the pit the size of two rooms remained full and periods of heavy rain or melting snow filled parts of the basin near the excavation.
Thanks to the flood, a rising water table has let the lake expand to about twelve acres, and it is growing rapidly as it spreads into a corn field. The Corps of Engineers told us flooded basements were a certainty, yet our basement is only damp. I asked them and others if there was a connection with our lake’s surge. No one knew.
Finally, they grew tired of asking, and referred me to a hydrologist. He told me I was right. Our house rests on about eight feet of black clay locally called gumbo. It is so hard, burrowing animals like gophers and ground squirrels avoid it. Layers of lighter soil and sand are below the gumbo.
The gumbo acts as a barrier , and our lake spring offers a path of least resistance for the water. Our basement will eventually have water, but thanks to the gumbo and our expanding lake, it will be slow and easily handled by a sump pump.
When our other farm was flooded, I checked the rate of water flow across our land, and my observations of other farms convinced me the Corps inundation maps were wrong for our neighborhood. I was polite, but the reps were irritated when I told them so.
Two days ago, a rep told me I was right. They had used their best guesses and computer analysis to project the progress of our flood, and I gave them credit for a good effort. Fortunately, factors they had missed, but I had caught kept water to other parts of the valley than near our house. They now agree we may not have to move out of our house. That may change, because this flood will continue for at least another two or three months, but the Corps time line was wrong.
The drainage ditch which flows through our has reached the bases of the highway and rail road bridges thanks to heavy rain on Sunday night. The Corps assure us the water will not top the dikes, but if another two heavy storms fall upstream, we will have to escape fast. Observation planes have been flying over our farm for the past several days. Blocked roads make it hard to get around, but we have one escape route remaining if the worst happens.
Jsri also mocked my folksy, rural writing style. Gary Sinese co stared in a television version of The Stand. One of his lines was “country don’t mean stupid.”
Jean and jsri will never read this, but someone will.
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By: Anonymous on July 1, 2011
at 7:06 AM
Well said Anonymou, and I am sure you articulated that as well as your education allows for. If you should be able to formulate a thought that actually has something worth responding too by all means give it a shot. Otherwise you just keep on doing your best sport.
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 8:21 PM
This is no different than any scandal a democrat gets caught in and its why Liberals are as dangerous as any terrorist. They have selective morality and ethics. If a Liberal does it, a weekend in rehab and he is ready to return to his job, and all is forgiven. A Conservative J-walks and he is labeled an inhuman monster for all his days, unfit to ever serve in public office ever again. Liberals want to win, at any cost. Selling this country down the river and dooming their children’s future is not to high a price to pay for victory.
Look at how Liberals treat women. Sara Palin and her daughter have been and still treated terribly. Now it is Michele Bachmann’’s turn. I have no doubt in the weeks and months ahead that the Liberals will attack her as if she were public enemy number 1. Time will tell.
It is a shame JEAN that you cannot find it within your withered and bitter old heart to be honest and hold Obama accountable for promises made and broken. Also, I am still holding you accountable for that apology to our troops for your earlier smearing of their good names.
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 8:19 PM
Noah
You are truly a dimwit kiddo.
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By: Anonymous on June 30, 2011
at 8:08 PM
I think you misread again Auntie,or your author did. Better yet, I don’t think either of you would understand if you had read, which you obviously didn’t. But I’ll try to make this real simple since it’s being interpreted for a lib:
There’s no promises of ‘Peace on Earth’ until the end of grace. In fact, just the opposite. What you might experience if you last long enough Auntie Jean, and from the looks of that gravatar that’s highly questionable, is hell on earth far exceeding that of your typical miserable existence. Either way, for you it ends ugly.
But on the slight chance you get to stick around until then, what you are will get to experience beyond a shadow of a doubt is wailing and gnashing of teeth for a very long time immediately after the light flashes. 😉
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Baloney. Salami
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By: Wayne Perram on June 30, 2011
at 5:42 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Gene Lyons had a great column in our paper this morning. If you can track it down on the net, it is called “Who needs logic.” Sometimes our paper changes the caption but the gist is there.
I can play “straw woman” and/or “ad hominum” with the best of Fox addicts. Example: When it comes to failed promises of the “Messiah”, Jesus, he promised “Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Men”. What happened there?
Apparently not in the “Promised Land” of “Regressive Land”.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 30, 2011
at 5:21 PM
and it is noted Anonymous approves of all the failed promises of the Messiah.
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 2:33 PM
mother in law then maybe kiddo?
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 2:31 PM
You really are dense.
Obama’s mother died of ovarian cancer at age 55. To find her now living at the White House must be a true act of the Messiah.
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By: Anonymous on June 30, 2011
at 2:13 PM
I myself was a little miffed when the wife of the Messiah took a vacation with just her and her mom to Africa with no official purpose but some R&R time, Taking Air Force 2 and a military transport to carry what they were taking and buying there (imagine what you would have to buy to need a military transport?) all on the tax payer dollar coming to about $800,000.
I don’t know of another President that has done this, maybe some have, but I was a bit astonished to find that the Messiah has his mother living with them at the White house. Wonder what that is costing tax payers?
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 12:53 PM
Excellent Post Noah – Elsie still won’t “get it”, but her statement so ludicrous and patently false, the record must be corrected.
How about a little of O’Bama’s rank hypocrisy and misleading for a final touch?
Obama Excoriates Republicans for Corporate Jet Tax Break He Included in Stimulus Bill.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/06/president-obama-excoriates-republicans-.html
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By: Wayne Perram on June 30, 2011
at 10:16 AM
In his campaign Obama Promised to Form international group to help Iraq refugees. Promise Broken.
In his campaign Obama Promised to Reinstate special envoy for the Americas. Administration engages Latin America, but not with a special envoy. Promise Broken.
In his campaign Obama Promised to Double the Peace Corps. President’s budget continues lower trend-line for Peace Corps funding. Promise Broken.
Centralize ethics and lobbying information for voters. Promise Broken.
Allow five days of public comment before signing bills. Promise Broken
Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials. Promise Broken.
Double funding for after-school programs. Promise Broken.
Urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws. Promise Broken.
Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage. Promise Broken.
Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council. Promise Broken.
Close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center. Promise Broken.
Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit. Promise Broken.
Limit term of director of national intelligence. Promise Broken.
Give annual “State of the World” address. Promise Broken.
Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels. Promise Broken.
Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies. Promise Broken.
Create cap and trade system with interim goals to reduce global warming. Promise Broken.
Require plug-in fleet at the White House. Promise Broken.
Provide an annual report on “state of our energy future” Promise Broken.
Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009. Promise Broken.
Recognize the Armenian genocide. Promise Broken.
No family making less than $250,000 will see “any form of tax increase.” Promise Broken.
Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN. Promise Broken.
Create a public option health plan for a new National Health Insurance Exchange. Promise Broken
Introduce a comprehensive immigration bill in the first year. Promise Broken.
So Elsie or other Messiah supporters, How does this list of failures sit with you?
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 9:57 AM
I think because I sighted sources to show everything is based on fact the multiple links is triggering the moderator intervention. That said proof for each and every failure is available if you should want to dispute my facts.
In his campaign Obama Promised to create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners. Broken promise and a huge failure.
In his campaign Obama Promised to end income tax for seniors making less than $50,000. Guess he just forgot our nations seniors, but they are old and will not remember right?
In his campaign Obama Promised to end no-bid contracts above $25,000 Promise Broken
In his campaign Obama Promised to Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize. Promise unfulfilled.
In his campaign Obama Promised to Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses. No sign of action on promise about executive bonuses. Promise forgotten.
In his campaign Obama Promised to Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court. No progress on promise regarding unpaid wages. Promise forgotten.
In his campaign Obama Promised to Allow imported prescription drugs. No new rules for drug imports in health care law. Promise Broken.
In his campaign Obama Promised to Direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study of federal cancer initiatives. No comprehensive study launched on federal cancer efforts. This was supposed to be an Immediate response to this problem. Promise Broken.
In his campaign Obama Promised to Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security. No commission has been formed. Promise forgotten.
In his campaign Obama Promised to Change federal rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities can get preferential treatment for federal contracts. No sign of progress toward small business boost for Americans with disabilities. Promise Broken.
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 9:53 AM
been a couple days and the comment doesnt seem to be getting moderated. I will assume because of the size it was held up so I will repost in smaller chunks. This was in response to Elsie and her belief in the Messiah being a total success as President. Here is my response to that post.
“If you think President Obama is a failure, or you’re “disappointed” in him, the problem pretty much has to be you.
How closed minded a statement this is. Liberal philosophy 101 right here. You either think as I do or there is something wrong with you.
Lets check out his list of failures shall we Elsie?
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 9:46 AM
been a couple days and the comment doesnt seem to be getting moderated. I will assume because of the size it was held up so I will repost in smaller chunks. This was in response to Elsie and her belief in the Messiah being a total success as President. Here is my response to that post.
“If you think President Obama is a failure, or you’re “disappointed” in him, the problem pretty much has to be you.
How closed minded a statement this is. Liberal philosophy 101 right here. You either think as I do or there is something wrong with you.
Lets check out his list of failures shall we Elsie?
In his campaign Obama Promised to create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners. Broken promise and a huge failure. Proof as follows: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/15/create-a-foreclosure-prevention-fund-for-homeowner/
In his campaign Obama Promised to end income tax for seniors making less than $50,000. Guess he just forgot our nations seniors, but they are old and will not remember right? Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/24/end-income-tax-for-seniors-making-less-than/
In his campaign Obama Promised to end no-bid contracts above $25,000 Promise Broken. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/30/end-no-bid-contracts-above-25000/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize. Promise unfulfilled. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/43/sign-the-employee-free-choice-act-making-it-easie/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses. No sign of action on promise about executive bonuses. Promise forgotten. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/45/forbid-companies-in-bankruptcy-from-giving-executi/
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 9:44 AM
well because you didnt have the intelligence or the foresight to consider not everyone knows what you know.
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By: Noah on June 30, 2011
at 8:04 AM
When a comment is in moderation, only the moderator will see it. No one else will have access to it until it is released. Why is that too complex to understand?
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By: Anonymous on June 30, 2011
at 6:40 AM
Guess Anonymous didn’t know what he meant either.
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By: Noah on June 29, 2011
at 11:15 PM
I like this post,tanks.
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By: boyz on June 29, 2011
at 8:47 PM
Sorry Anonymous. don’t follow what you are saying
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By: Noah on June 29, 2011
at 11:55 AM
Noah
There’s an obvious answer to your question, If you can’t understand that, why are you here?
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By: Anonymous on June 29, 2011
at 10:19 AM
if a post is tagged…Your comment is awaiting moderation, can others see it?
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By: Noah on June 28, 2011
at 3:40 PM
Thanks, Wayne. Your praise, is good for the soul.
I don’t think I will have time to check in for a day or so. The heavy rain I mentioned has reached the drainage ditch which runs through our farm. For the first time in weeks, the water is flowing downstream with trash including trees. The water in the ditch and river east of us has risen a foot or so since yesterday and is within four feet of the bases of the highway and railroad bridges. Airplanes circled our farm this morning, so I checked the water and asked the Corps of Engineers reps if we needed to consider evacuating. Not yet.
It bears watching, in spite of what the Corps say, because if water tops the bank, one escape route will remain, and it will be across the river east of us. If we thought we were in any immediate danger, we’d be leaving now. It is just something we need to watch for a day or two.
The Corps people are so grateful that I am nice to them, they tell me things. For example, the flood is not progressing as they had calculated. Large areas are still dry because, in my opinion, earlier ditch and river straightening and dike building, the interstate, railroad tracks and high graded roads have slowed the spread of water in some places and made it deeper in others.
Whenever, a down stream levy breaks, it helps relieve the pressure on us. The river is also cutting deeper near us, and that helps it hold more water. No one has a clue about how this will turn out, because it is beyond the computer models and modern experience to know. Nobody knows how long the dikes which were designed to hold water for a few days will last against months of innundation. All I know is we have lost a third of our immediate income to flood water.
Ground water is an effective fifth column which will do what the surface flood can’t. Omaha-Council Bluffs, safely behind large dikes is being flooded by rain water because it has nowhere to go. Some people were evacuated on Saturday because water was up to car door handles. Pumps sent the water into the river within four or five hours. Sewers are also backing up.
One blew yesterday and sent a twenty foot fountain into the air. Workers partly stopped it by driving heavy equipment onto the man hole cover.
The Platte River is sending flood water into the Missouri down stream from us. It has areas of flooding as far up stream as Wyoming where heavy snow is melting.
KFAB.com has some good flood news.
No I didn’t hear about the insult. Here is my reaction to all of the clueless wonders who don’t know or understand us.
” We came from the West Virginia coal mines
and the western skies
And country folk will survive.”
Hank Williams Junior
Here is something which hardly made the news. The Little Sioux Scout Ranch tornado destroyed the camp and killed or injured many boy scouts. Police and fire fighters who had survived 9/11 came all the way out here to help rebuild the camp. People from here helped rebuild after Katrina, and others have been in Joplin, Mo. Other communities donated time and effort so that Grand Forks, ND high school seniors could have a good prom and graduation after the awful food of 1997. . I think Soul Asylum donated a show for the prom.
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By: James on June 28, 2011
at 3:11 PM
James,
I am glad you’re back to posting. I have been thinking about you.
What you describe is what I would expect from America’s finest, most capable people. I don’t know if you are aware that last Friday night on the Bill Maher show, a NY Columnist named David Carr called large swaths of those living along or near the Missouri Rivers and Mississippi Rivers “low-sloping foreheads.” More specifically, his insult was aimed toward the residents of Missouri and Kansas. Har Har Har…
Here is what my experience has been. Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, SD, North Dakota, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Alabama, and Tennessee have all been hit with devastating storms or severe flooding the last five years. During that time, I have heard no calls for “Save Me Obama! Save Me!, or “Save Me FEMA! Save Me!” from any of them. Not one. There have been no repeats of New Orleans, and some of the floods and storms have been far more widespread.
These geniuses on the coasts that consider themselves elite and intellectual? The most helpless people on earth – they just don’t know it yet because they are too superficial to understand how they are being fed, clothed, and kept cool and warm. Those that live in flyover country – the glue that holds this country together and will be standing long after the coasts have sunk into the abyss.
There is no doubt.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 28, 2011
at 1:12 PM
** Guffaw **
Elsie’s posts do make for great fodder.
So Obama has said he would do what he said he would do? Is that what you are trying to tell us? I hope not – I would be appalled if there was somebody alive that deluded but…
Unfortunately, there are millions on the Left that are as evidence by the 34% of Americans that rate Obama’s handling of the economy good or excellent. You can’t explain that level of abject stupidity, besides attributing the cause to profound and ubiquitous mental illness.
Let’s take just a few and summarize. I could do this for hours. Shooting fish in a barrel. That Chatty Kitchen blog should be renamed Progressives Lying to Progressives.
——-
Obama said he would halve the deficit – Reality: He tripled the annual deficit his first year and has extended that unto record well into his third, threatening both the U.S. dollar and credit rating.
Obama said he would win the “right war” – Reality; Deaths of American soldiers in Afghanistan has increased 500% under Obama’s leadership, and he recently ignored the advice of Petraeus and Mullins, and listened to Axelrod and Plouffe.
Obama campaigned against the Bush Doctrine; Reality; Obama doubled down on the Bush Doctrine, increased troops and started two other wars without Congressional approval in Libya and Yemen.
Obama said he would close GITMO; Reality – self explanatory.
Obama said he his “investment” of $862Billion for shovel ready jobs would prevent unemployment reaching above 8%; Reality – Published unemployment reached 10.1% thirteen months later, with real unemployment nearing 20%. Unemployment for newly minted college graduates has now reached 26%.
This place is comedy gold when the occasional lying Lib peeks in and leaves a load.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 28, 2011
at 1:01 PM
Sorry for the length of this post, I don’t know if others can see it as it has been marked for moderation. I hope it is for size and not content.
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By: Noah on June 28, 2011
at 10:28 AM
“If you think President Obama is a failure, or you’re “disappointed” in him, the problem pretty much has to be you.
How closed minded a statement this is. Liberal philosophy 101 right here. You either think as I do or there is something wrong with you.
Lets check out his list of failures shall we Elsie?
In his campaign Obama Promised to create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners. Broken promise and a huge failure. Proof as follows: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/15/create-a-foreclosure-prevention-fund-for-homeowner/
In his campaign Obama Promised to end income tax for seniors making less than $50,000. Guess he just forgot our nations seniors, but they are old and will not remember right? Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/24/end-income-tax-for-seniors-making-less-than/
In his campaign Obama Promised to end no-bid contracts above $25,000 Promise Broken. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/30/end-no-bid-contracts-above-25000/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize. Promise unfulfilled. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/43/sign-the-employee-free-choice-act-making-it-easie/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses. No sign of action on promise about executive bonuses. Promise forgotten. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/45/forbid-companies-in-bankruptcy-from-giving-executi/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court. No progress on promise regarding unpaid wages. Promise forgotten. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/46/allow-workers-to-claim-more-in-unpaid-wages-and-be/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Allow imported prescription drugs. No new rules for drug imports in health care law. Promise Broken. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/71/allow-imported-prescription-drugs/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study of federal cancer initiatives. No comprehensive study launched on federal cancer efforts. This was supposed to be an Immediate response to this problem. Promise Broken. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/86/direct-the-secretary-of-health-and-human-services-/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security. No commission has been formed. Promise forgotten. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/97/create-a-national-commission-on-people-with-disabi/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Change federal rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities can get preferential treatment for federal contracts. No sign of progress toward small business boost for Americans with disabilities. Promise Broken. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/98/change-federal-rules-so-small-businesses-owned-by-/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Form international group to help Iraq refugees. Promise Broken/ Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/129/form-international-group-to-help-iraq-refugees/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Reinstate special envoy for the Americas. Administration engages Latin America, but not with a special envoy. Promise Broken. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/220/reinstate-special-envoy-for-the-americas/
In his campaign Obama Promised to Double the Peace Corps. President’s budget continues lower trend-line for Peace Corps funding. Promise Broken. Proof: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/221/double-the-peace-corps/
Lets speed things up. AS you can see this is a massive list proof available upon request.
Centralize ethics and lobbying information for voters. Promise Broken.
Allow five days of public comment before signing bills. Promise Broken
Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials. Promise Broken.
Double funding for after-school programs. Promise Broken.
Urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws. Promise Broken.
Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage. Promise Broken.
Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council. Promise Broken.
Close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center. Promise Broken.
Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit. Promise Broken.
Limit term of director of national intelligence. Promise Broken.
Give annual “State of the World” address. Promise Broken.
Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels. Promise Broken.
Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies. Promise Broken.
Create cap and trade system with interim goals to reduce global warming. Promise Broken.
Require plug-in fleet at the White House. Promise Broken.
Provide an annual report on “state of our energy future” Promise Broken.
Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009. Promise Broken.
Recognize the Armenian genocide. Promise Broken.
No family making less than $250,000 will see “any form of tax increase.” Promise Broken.
Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN. Promise Broken.
Create a public option health plan for a new National Health Insurance Exchange. Promise Broken
Introduce a comprehensive immigration bill in the first year. Promise Broken.
So Elsie or other Messiah supporters, How does this list of failures sit with you. I hope you are brave enough to answer.
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By: Noah on June 28, 2011
at 10:16 AM
God, has anyone heard about Sarah Palin’s daughter’s book, “”Not Afraid of Life?” In it she accuses her baby-daddy of date-rape while she was under the influence of alcohol. Never mind that she lied to her parents about where she was spending the night and went camping with the boy instead – it was all HIS fault, that Neanderthal!
You gotta be kidding me. Levi was a well-known local bad boy who, when still in high school bedded two girls at once and was quite proud of the fact. (Hell, who wouldn’t be?) Instead of just fessing up that she had the hots for ol’ Levi and took matters into her own – er, hands, she accuses him of raping her.
Sounds like a technique she learned from her mother, whose life is defined by blaming others and getting even.
I have a better title for the book: “False Accuser or, The Batshit Never Falls Far From the Tree.”
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By: pfesser53 on June 28, 2011
at 9:40 AM
Harlequin Novel, Updated…. 2011 Version:
He grasped me firmly, but gently, just above my elbow and guided me into a room, his room. Then he quietly shut the door and we were alone. He approached me soundlessly, from behind, and spoke in a low, reassuring voice close to my ear.
“Just relax.”
Without warning, he reached down and I felt his strong, calloused hands start at my ankles, gently probing, and moving upward along my calves, slowly but steadily. My breath caught in my throat.
I knew I should be afraid, but somehow I didn’t care. His touch was so experienced, so sure. When his hands moved up onto my thighs, I gave a slight shudder, and partly closed my eyes. My pulse was pounding. I felt his knowing fingers caress my abdomen, my ribcage.
And then, as he cupped my firm, full breasts in his hands, I inhaled sharply.
Probing, searching, knowing what he wanted, he brought his hands to my shoulders, slid them down my tingling spine and into my panties.
Although I knew nothing about this man, I felt oddly trusting and expectant. This is a man, I thought. A man used to taking charge. A man not used to taking ‘No’ for an answer. A man who would tell me what he wanted. A man who would look into my soul and say . . . .
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
“Okay ma’am, you can board your flight now.”
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By: pfesser53 on June 28, 2011
at 9:14 AM
Maybe this is the flood talking.
I like some of Michelle Bachman’s ideas. Sarah Palin’s and Obama’s too. But to say Obama is a good president is to lie. It is propagated by his supporters to encourage the party for the next election.. The results speak for themselves. Yes, he accomplished some of what he promised, and that is the problem. I’m not accusing Elsie of lying, just the politicians and their supporters.
Obama didn’t “get” Ossama. He approved a plan. Someone else signed the paper. We don’t know what Bachmann or Palin would be as president, but Obama now has a record.
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By: James on June 28, 2011
at 8:00 AM
The last comment was mine.
This story should make Wayne, and everyone else proud. As the Corps of Engineers suddenly warned of the disaster, a local farmer and retired Corps of Engineers hydrological engineer thought the locals could save themselves by building new dikes and reinforcing the old.
He made some phone calls, and soon a group of farmers, construction contractors, Iowa’s DOT, and the manager of DeSoto Bend refuge joined to build the dikes. Our neighbor who owns a construction company put in several 24 hour days. He said they did in a few days what would take the Corps weeks to build 30 miles of dikes.
They aquired a pump and patrolled the levies with advice from the Corps. The effect was remarkable. One side was dry with leaks. The other side was an ocean. The group had no illusions. The organizer said in an interview that at least they had purchased some time.
The dike failed, maybe because of the rain or the weight of the water, and within less than a day, the ocean spread over thousands of farmland.
A KFAB talk show host wondered why Hollywood celebraties have ignored our recent disasters. Where is Bono, and why has Spike Lee not blamed the government for causing this problem? Where are FEMA’s debit cards or trailers? He and his cohorts concluded we have better politicians than New Orleans did, and we don’t need their telethons.
So far, the Corps reps tell me we on our farm are blessed. I agree. My wife and I are still home when we thought we would be in Omaha by now.
Michele Bachmann is a good, talented woman. She is just misguided, and not suited to be president. In my opinion, she is even less qualified than Obama or Palin. Its early in the campaign. Right now, Bachmann is thriving on emotion as Obama, Palin, and Trump did. I don’t think she will survive. The liberal press and moderate Republicans will shred her as they did Palin, and that will be a favor to the Republicans.
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By: James on June 28, 2011
at 7:44 AM
Since this is, ostensibly, a PROGRESSIVE blog, I’ve got a contribution today that links back to viewpoints representative of our blog mistress, Helen, here.
http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what-has-obama-done-since-january-20-2009.html
Here’s just the introduction to an extensive list of the president’s accomplishments that follow on that link.
Enjoy.
***
“To Those Who Consider President Obama a Disappointment; You’re Just NOT Paying Attention!
“If you think President Obama is a failure, or you’re “disappointed” in him, the problem pretty much has to be you. So far, this president has done most of what he said he would do, and he’s only halfway through his first term. Not only is he NOT a “failure,” he’s pretty much the opposite. Hell; he even took out Osama bin Laden, something Bush couldn’t do in eight years. Of course, Bush also said several times that he really didn’t care bout bin Laden, anyway…
“Is he perfect? No, he’s human. Does he deserve some criticism? Sure. But criticism about certain specific problems is one thing; taking on an overall “Obama sucks” meme not only has the potential to put another Bush into power, but it’s also a lie to say, or even imply, he’s a lousy president.
“Here is a PARTIAL list of Obama’s accomplishments so far. Unlike many lists, I actually include a link to details. I also update this list regularly, so check back often…..”
***
Like I said, an EXTENSIVE list of accomplishments follow. For Helen’s progressives who try to keep up with political specifics, you might want to bookmark this site.
Have a great day.
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By: Elsie on June 28, 2011
at 7:43 AM
pfesser53, I dunno, I kind of like Bachmann’s answers. That she went to that collage to get a world view. That to me shows me a person who doesn’t have their head stuck in the sand and wants to understand things from many points of view. I have found some of the people I like most in the world share this same philosophy.
Now as I stated in the previous post dedicated to me, I do not share in a lot of the far religious rights point of view when it comes to abortion and climate change. However what you can often count on from a true religious right person is moral conviction, something we are sorely lacking in Washington today. In line with my thinking about a one term President, maybe someone like Bachmann for four years would get the job done. Short of getting a true viable 3rd party candidate I think someone like this would give us our best chance at fixing our financial problems and get things like campaign finance reform pushed through.
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By: Noah on June 28, 2011
at 7:20 AM
I like Huntsman too, and I think he would be a good president. Someone in the administration said they are most afraid of Huntsman, but we don’t know if he was telling the truth.
The Tea Party is like the Asian lady beetle which was introduced to eat the Asian aphids that were damaging and in some cases destroying the soy bean crop. They did their job, but multiplied so fast some people had to shovel them out of their basements in early fall. Then, their numbers crashed after they ate most of the aphids.
The Tea Party is also like the early revolutionary rabble rousers who provided the backbone for the revolution. The leadership pushed them aside after our victory from England.
LIkewise, Republicans would not have won their majority in the House and majorities in many state legislatures without the Tea Parties. But the time will come when like the Asian lady beetles, they will do more harm than good. I don’t know when we will reach that time.
Thanks, PFessor. Our local nuclear power plants have made the national news and even Coast to Coast. The interstate is closed on both sides of us for now. Our detour to Omaha closed yesterday. People can still get where they have to go, but it takes a lot longer. Crews are working with concrete barracades, sand bags, and pumps to reopen the two highways because of their importance.
The water on our lake which used to be a farm rose eight inches yesterday. My camera zoom lense shows water to be over the foundation of our neighbor’s house which is on a high spot. The flag is still flying.
Four inches of rain fell on us in seven days. Two storms gave us 70MPH wind or more, and also long power outages. We had to clean our refrigerator twice.The last was on Sunday night. Limbs nearly blocked some local roads. When I checked our western farm yesterday, a tree limb caught in the undercarriage or our car, and it dragged along for awhile before it was free. The road to our farm is closed, so I don’t know if anyone will remove the tree limbs.
Omaha and Council Bluffs are beseiged. Their dikes are holding, but the water table is rising. Heavy rain in the low parts of both cities sent water up to the door handles of cars in some spots, and people had to temporarily evacuate until huge pumps removed the water. They have also had problems with sewers backing up.
We are like a herd of zebras watching the lions which attack at random when they are hungry. No one knows what will happen because this is beyond anyone’s experience.. The corps of engineers and weather service say it will get worse before it gets better. 32% of the water which needs to pass by has gone with 68% to go. They tell us the nuclear plants are find so far, though water is inside parts of them, and they expect them to stay safe based on flood calculations.
However, the old and new dikes were not designed for such a long-term flood. Levis are breaking now, and this water will be with us at least through late August and September. This is affecting people’s mental health. Someone told my wife our county’s mental health service is noticing the difference. The Salvation Army has started an emotional health service.
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By: Anonymous on June 28, 2011
at 7:12 AM
Ever wonder what informs Michele Bachmann’s worldview? (dup post @ Rutherford’s)
Bachmann honed her view of the world after college, when she enrolled at the Coburn Law School at Oral Roberts University, an “interdenominational, Bible-based, and Holy Spirit-led” school in Oklahoma. “My goal there was to learn the law both from a professional but also from a biblical worldview,” she said in an April speech.
At Coburn, Bachmann studied with John Eidsmoe, who she recently described as “one of the professors who had a great influence on me.” Bachmann served as his research assistant on the 1987 book Christianity and the Constitution, which argued that the United States was founded as a Christian theocracy, and that it should become one again. “The church and the state have separate spheres of authority, but both derive authority from God,” Eidsmoe wrote. “In that sense America, like [Old Testament] Israel, is a theocracy.”
You want this woman as president? Not me, boy-o-boy, not me.
God when are the ReBiblicans ever going to come to their senses?
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By: pfesser53 on June 28, 2011
at 6:12 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Coming up for air from my projects. I’m making progress! The Wheels of Justice do turn slowly but they eventually get there. Three big-ticket items I’m sure all of you know about but here is my opinion of them anyway.
The scumbag Blagojevich was convicted on 17 counts. That should take the wind out of his sails for a while. What goes around, comes around – – – eventually.
Oh my, that distinguished proto-feminist, Michelle Bachman seems to have overtaken Romney in the approval of the regressive voters of Iowa. We can now add her name to the long list of other polymaths such as Émilie du Châtelet. Bachmann has way outstripped that other outstanding champion of elite intellectualism, Sarah Palin in the affection of the Hawkeye State.
Meow.
One of the last frontiers on civil rights took place in New York with the passage of the Gay Rights Bill. As an avowed heterosexual, I have always been mystified by why sexual orientation was anybody else’s business. We may just become civilized one of these days in spite of ourselves!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 28, 2011
at 12:32 AM
Noah – I’m really liking this Huntsman guy. The polls say that he’s not even on the radar, but unless he gets caught behind the barn with a goat, I predict he will be an important player. We’ll see.
Wonder how James is doing? I’ve been watching the news; man what a bloody mess out there!
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By: pfesser53 on June 27, 2011
at 5:49 PM
His response? “If that is the price I have to pay, I will gladly pay it.”
I remember those days well. We could surely use some men of principle like that today.
I agree 110% PFesser. What we need is someone who is willing to be a 1 term President willing to do what it takes to get us back on the right path, be willing to be hated for the choices he makes to do what is right.
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By: Noah on June 27, 2011
at 11:49 AM
Fantastic program on the Military Channel tonight with Morgan Freeman. It chronicles Lyndon Johnson’s conversion from southern racist to champion of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He was told that if he got that bill passed he would give the south to the Republican party for two generations, minimum. And on top of that, he would be unelectable.
His response? “If that is the price I have to pay, I will gladly pay it.”
I remember those days well. We could surely use some men of principle like that today.
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By: pfesser53 on June 26, 2011
at 8:23 PM
NOP –
I think you may be mistaken. There are a lot of us Independents – former Republicans – sitting on the sidelines and voting for the least heinous candidate on either side. To have a reasonable, likeable Republican candidate who knows something other than just to scream “Jaezzzzzusss!!!” as an answer to any question? It would be beyond our wildest hopes. Believe me, most of us are as disgusted with the ReBiblicans as you are. And frankly I’m getting a little testy about the Tea Party, too…
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By: pfesser53 on June 26, 2011
at 5:33 PM
Backfrom a weekend of camping. I am always amazed how I wonder how I am going t get through a weekend without all my gadgets then when the weekend is over I am wishing I could stay another week.
If memory serves I think Huntsman is the former Utah Republican Gov. Don’t know a lot about him but I will dig some. I do out of the shoot like a president who has executive government experience.
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By: Noah on June 26, 2011
at 3:47 PM
What should worry you, PFesser, is I wouldn’t necessarily have to immediately emigrate if Huntsman was elected. For that reason alone, I don’t think he can make it through the GOP primary system.
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By: No One's Puppet on June 26, 2011
at 10:25 AM
Noah –
I have had a chance to do a little digging on Jon Huntsman. He looks pretty good! Unlike Snowdrift Snooki, for example, he actually knows about other countries’ existence, is “spiritual” but not a religious zealot, likes kids (lots of ’em!) He is not an anti-intellectual git – so far I like what I see. Do you, James, Craig, et al have any thoughts on this guy? For once I’m kind of excited – if you know something really bad about him let me down easy, OK?
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By: PFesser on June 25, 2011
at 5:57 PM
I hope no one minds if I bring up something off the subject. I listened to Obama’s speech about the drawdown of troops in Afghanistan. I have been following some of the commentary about it since then. I am not sure what to think about it right now.
I have a limited experience in the military as I am sure the men and some of the women on this blog do too. I was a non-com. In retrospect, I was very young and had only a vague idea of what we were fighting for. I put in my tour of duty and did what I was told. I didn’t like it much. I was lucky that I got out unscathed. Then I got on with my life. But thanks to my service, I was able to complete my education and buy my first home on the GI Bill.
I do know that we Americans would resent having foreign troops and installations on our soil. For years we have had large numbers of our military in permanent bases all over the world. Europe, South Korea, even South America. Exactly what are they doing there? Soldiers are trained to fight.
Considering the state of our economy here at home, wouldn’t it be wise to re-evaluate the expenditures of personnel and equipment necessary to maintain those bases?
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By: undecided on June 24, 2011
at 8:48 PM
Wayne, I agree 191%
Cause for some people to celebrate. Pretty amazing find.
http://www.newser.com/story/121830/extreme-diet-can-cure-diabetes-researchers-say.html
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By: Noah on June 24, 2011
at 7:53 AM
The President addressing the 10th Mountain Division today at Fort Drum:
“First time I saw 10th Mountain Division, you guys were in southern Iraq. When I went back to visit Afghanistan, you guys were the first ones there. I had the great honor of seeing some of you because a comrade of yours, Jared Monti, was the first person who I was able to award the Medal of Honor to who actually came back and wasn’t receiving it posthumously.”
As we all know, SSG Sal Giunta, of the 173rd Airborne, was the first living recipient (2011) of the MOH who fought in Iraq/Afganistan. SFC Jared Monti, 10th Mountain Division, was KIA in Afghanistan in 2006. He was posthumously awarded the MOH by Obama in 2009.
How does the Commander-in-Chief mix these heroes up? He put that medal around Giunta’s neck and he stood with Monti’s parents as they grieved. These fallen heroes leave such a great legacy, and we should know all their names. The ironic part of the speech, and this comes after the announcement of the politically pressured drawdown of troops in Afghanistan, was Obama’s closing remark, “Know that your Commander-in-Chief has your back.”
Had this been George Bush, Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann, the Chatty Kitchen crowd would be banging pots and pans.
But the Imbecile CiC? (crickets)
The Audacity of a Dope…
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By: Wayne Perram on June 23, 2011
at 9:10 PM
Elsie,
By: Wayne Perram on June 23, 2011
at 8:10 PM
Geert Wilders acquitted:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13883331
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By: PFesser on June 23, 2011
at 1:14 PM
alaskapi, I’ll check back when I can. You sound rich to me too. This is an historic flood, in part because of its duration.
My family is long-lived. Most were active until they died in their mid nineties. My aunt died two weeks before her hundredth birthday. I am aiming for 100 and tease our children that I plan to be a burden on them. Our son says I can live in a box in their back yard. Our daughter says she will put the box in her garage and asks “does that make me the good child?”
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By: James on June 23, 2011
at 10:50 AM
Hi PFessor, yes, we have a plan for almost everything. I returned from scouting the flood and discovered the water is about eight feet from the bottom of the bridge near our home. After another few days, I will be able to dangle my feet in the water when sitting on the bridge. Usually the water is over twenty feet from the base of the bridge. The water is slowly creeping across our corn field toward our house. So far, we have lost a third of this year’s income to the flood.
Our two acres of sweet corn is gone, so I planted seven rows south of our house. It is beginning to emerge. A freeze killed most of our cherry blossoms, but we face a wonderful raspberry crop. I usually pick about a gallon of black raspberries.
We thought we would be living in Omaha by now, so life is good and lived day to day.
Camp grounds are full of people who were flooded out, but others have moved in because though their homes are dry, they need to be closer to their jobs. Closed roads have added hours to commute times.
Noah, I think most executive orders coming from Bush, Obama, or any other president are dangerous. Let Congress vote on Executive Order 86. I don’t have time to go into detail. Just listen to the Dandy Warholl’s Godless on you tube. It covers my thoughts pretty well.
Undecided, we had a similar experience. After my father died, we needed a vacation, but our Ford Escort was behaving badly. I called the Omaha dealership where we bought it, and the mechanic gave me his best guess–a failing transmission. He thought we could travel safely if we were careful.
My wife couldn’t go because teachers had to be at school before their students, so our two teenagers and I set out for the upper Great Lakes. We were at the Mall of America when the car froze up , and I called a garage, but we were stuck in a motel near the Mall.. The problem was intermittent, and the mechanics couldn’t find what had made the car malfunction. Thus, we three spent a week trapped next to the Mall of America. Our daughter said on Sunday that that was the best vacation trip we ever took. A local mechanic had installed new brakes backward.
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By: James on June 23, 2011
at 10:38 AM
LOL Jean and PFesser!
Much of the dueling notions on the tension between generations in those jokes!
James- check back in when you can. Have lived through some catastrophic floods but as I live where the land is steep and near the sea it is of a different type altogether. Water rises sharply, tides hold it back, reaches amazing heights and then is gone… the idea of weeks and months of flooding is hard to get hold of for me.
And don’t ever think my life has been tough neighbor- it’s had it’s ups and downs and all but worries and upsets aside I’ve gotten to do and see and be part of countless rich everyday people type experiences and places things- and count myself a rich person whether my bankbook agrees with me or not.
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By: alaskapi on June 23, 2011
at 8:58 AM
congrats PFesser, doctor in the family is always great bragging rights for any parent. I can only hope I am as fortunate with my child.
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By: Noah on June 23, 2011
at 8:56 AM
My son just told me he wants to go to medical school. God bless the young, for they will make the medical advances that allow us to live yet *another* twenty years beyond our usefulness and be one more tax burden to them as they struggle to raise *their* families.
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By: PFesser on June 23, 2011
at 6:50 AM
Around 1906, when airplanes had just been invented, an old farmer took his six year-old son to see an early barnstormer who was flying around the countryside, showing off the newfangled invention.
As the pilot worked on his crude airplane, the old farmer approached and asked skeptically, “What’s it good for?”
The pilot looked at the little boy and said, “What’s HE good for?”
Taken aback, the farmer said, “Well, nothing right now, but someday he will be a man!”
“Precisely,” said the pilot.
no mas, te Salami
PFesser
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By: pfesser53 on June 23, 2011
at 5:11 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
This new WordPress protocol is giving me fits!
A self-important college freshman walking along the beach spotted an elderly gentleman. He took it upon himself to explain to the senior citizen why it was impossible for the older generation to understand his generation.
“You grew up in a different world, actually an almost primitive one. The young people of today grew up with television, jet planes, space travel, man walking on the moon. We now have nuclear energy, cell phones, texting, computers with light speed….. and many more things.”
After a brief silence the senior citizen responded: “You’re right, son. We didn’t have those things when we were young….. so we invented them. Now, you arrogant little shit, what are YOU doing for the next generation?”
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 23, 2011
at 1:01 AM
Testing
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By: Jean on June 23, 2011
at 12:51 AM
I live in a semi-rural community with proximity to a large city. I bought my car from a dealer in the city. While it was still under warranty, I took it there for routine maintenance. I admit it is foreign made. I have been well satisfied with it.
Not long ago it developed a suspicious noise. I decided to take it to a small local garage for repairs. The owner had his mechanic look it over. He had a small TV going constantly on Fox News. While I waited it was obvious he wanted to talk politics and his many problems as a small business owner. The mechanic came out and said the car needed a part that would have to be ordered. They both poured over a large catalogue. I was told they would call me when it came in and that it was OK to drive the car in the meantime. The noise continued.
When he called several days later I was told I would have to leave the car for most of the day. That was an inconvenience because my wife has a career too. We had to adjust our schedules to her car. Although I do not punch a time clock, I do have work to do and deadlines to meet. When I picked up the car after the part was put in the noise continued. I had to take it back twice with the same routine. I rented a car in the interim.
Finally the fifth time, I made an appointment with the dealer in the city. I realize now I should have done that in the first place. It took about ten minutes with my car up on the rack for the mechanic to show me the problem. The garage had installed the wrong part and had tried to jam it into place. Continuing to drive it could have blown out the whole engine. The dealer had the correct part in stock and installed it in a short time. You don’t want to know the total of the bills from the local garage, the dealer and the rental car.
This is an isolated incident I know. I am an American. It bothers me that a foreign company can build a better product and maintain it more efficiently for less time and money it than our homegrown variety.
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By: undecided on June 22, 2011
at 8:58 PM
so = do
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By: Noah on June 22, 2011
at 7:07 PM
OYB say what you like, but when you fabricate things about me I call you on it..simple as that. And I made no presumptions, just stated the painfully obvious.
What does a Liberal in San Francisco,so when they find they have a little extra time on their hands? They write legislation banning goldfish. …..really?
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By: Noah on June 22, 2011
at 7:03 PM
My respectful and sincere apologies, Ms. Pi. Thank you for your thoughtful dialogue and kind correction of my error.
Noah, I am not the one setting up a bunker, so don’t presume my foundation is fear. You seem to think you are above constructive criticism even from people on your own side, so I regret wasting my time. Carry on. And on. And on.
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By: OYB on June 22, 2011
at 6:39 PM
Would be interested to hear what James and others think of Executive Order 86. Watch for the word Sustainable.
Section 1. Policy. Sixteen percent of the American population lives in rural counties. Strong, sustainable rural communities are essential to winning the future and ensuring American competitiveness in the years ahead. These communities supply our food, fiber, and energy, safeguard our natural resources, and are essential in the development of science and innovation. Though rural communities face numerous challenges, they also present enormous economic potential. The Federal Government has an important role to play in order to expand access to the capital necessary for economic growth, promote innovation, improve access to health care and education, and expand outdoor recreational activities on public lands.
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By: Noah on June 22, 2011
at 4:11 PM
Hi James –
Sounds like you are taking charge of your disaster and your life. Good for you. I was thinking about how long the levees would hold once they got waterlogged. From what you say you are still at home. Man, I feel for you – and the Corps. At least people have sympathy for you; the Corps are slimy dogs.
re: what others think of you. Right on. Family and self only. Agreed. If one needs external affirmation, one has problems.
re; those who “left.” I think your assessment is spot-on. How DARE some as unenlightened and unreconstructed and – well, LOWER CLASS as yourself disagree with me!!! I’ll take my ball and go home. It reminds me of the last scene in M*A*S*H, where O’Houlihan (sp?) threatens to resign her commission and Henry – who is in bed with one of her nurses, says, “Well, Goddamn it, Hot Lips, RESIGN your Goddamned commission!” All I have to say to the quitters is, “Resign your commission. And don’t let the screen door hit you on the ass on the way out.” Feh.
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By: PFesser on June 22, 2011
at 1:45 PM
I couldn’t make the link work. Missouri River Flooding 2011 Lee Valley Inc on google worked for me. Some of the pictures were taken in our neighborhood.
Keep the faith, Noah.
“
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By: James on June 22, 2011
at 1:40 PM
We have had an interesting time. The nearest flood water is in our corn field 1/4 mile west of our house.We have more sand bags for the top of our dike if we need them. Yesterday, we had to clean our refrigerator after a twelve hour power outage following a severe thunderstorm. Our porch was damaged too. 3 inches of ran fell and it is hard to tell which ponds are rain water and which are from the flood.
I don’t have much time for this, and I only read a few of the most recent posts. I like Pfessor’s deliniation of conservatives, liberals and asses. I also like alaskapi’s comments, because I know how she feels from when I hung around with a group of black air men in the Air Force and how liberals treated we veterans when we came home. Other people look down on my type because we live west of the Mississippi and are rural folks.Comments about Omaha’s hosting the College World Series come to mind. A few have used geography and class to put me down right here on this blog. I’m not saying I have experienced anything as bad as alaskapi or others have, but I have a hint of how it must be–maddening.
“I spend a lot of time wondering what people see and hear through the lenses of their personal experiences..do you?” Yes, I do, and what I “see” when you write, alaskapi, is a good person. You are likely better than those who harshly judge you because of your heritage or social status. As for myself, I only care what my family and I think of me. The rest can get bent.
This is just my opinion only supported by impressions. Some of the people who posted here regularly didn’t cope well with people who supported their arguments with logic and facts. That doesn’t mean the interlopers were always right, but several people here were unacustomed to being contradicted by people from a political class they didn’t like.
Again, this is only based on reasons several people gave for leaving the site. I believe their departure is similar to “white flight” when the first black family moved into a white neighborhood during the sixties and seventies.
I hope Craig, Mageen, and their families are all right.
Right now, I forming a relationship with the Corps of Engineers and learning rudiments of hydrology. Those people are telling me a lot out of gratitude for my being nice, because most of the public would like to string them up if they could. This will last into autumn, and no one knows what will happen. No one knows how long dikes and levies will last because they were not designed for more than a week or so of flooding. Flood water weighs a lot, and it will find a way to reach low places. If it doesn’t push the dike over, it will come up from the ground. The water release will go up to 160,000 cfs tomorrow and may go even higher through late August.
The poor people who are leaving their homes in Minot, ND this afternoon are feeling the worst of it now. That water is moving toward Winnipeg and Brandon.
Besides KFAB.com, http://www.leevalley.net/missouririverflood.atm posts regular pictures of the flood.
“
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By: James on June 22, 2011
at 1:22 PM
Maybe if he wasn’t so busy looking for UN approval Obama could keep even his most simple promises.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/whatever-happened-to-those-white-house-solar-panels-obama-promised/
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By: Noah on June 22, 2011
at 9:34 AM
need to proofread sorry sights should be cites i believe.
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By: Noah on June 22, 2011
at 9:25 AM
I am starting to wonder which country Obama is President of. He sights UN approval as his reason for being able to go to war and that because of the permission of the UN he didn’t need to seek the approval of Congress.
Now we have executive order #86. ( yes he has made 86 executive orders to date) With this order he is following the guidelines put forth in the UN’s UN plan for Sustainable Development known as Agenda 21.
Maybe instead of being a Messiah, we should dub him Puppet?
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By: Noah on June 22, 2011
at 9:22 AM
well PFesser- I have a very different take on the neighbors who are enjoying their conversation in what you call the Chatty Kitchen as I visit over there some too.
I have to go to work and they are perfectly capable of standing up for themselves but I would like to leave something for folks to think about…
Unless you know what you are looking at I appear as a slightly exotic white person. I am at least a quarter Aleut, maybe up to a half- no one knows enough about my maternal grandfather to know and he would never speak about his beginnings much.
I have stood beside my well educated successful mother and watched and listened to people speak down to her all my life. They speak slowly and carefully like she’s deaf or mentally slow and make assumptions about her ability to process information based on external appearance only.
Folks also do not make the family connection between us side by side though my face is her face- just a different skin color.
I spend a lot of time wondering what people see and hear through the lens of their own experience …do you?
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By: alaskapi on June 22, 2011
at 9:17 AM
I have 16 people that I would consider social friends that I see in person at least 1 time a month or more. Of them 3 are conservatives and the rest are very Liberal. Politics has no bearing at all on if I can be friends with someone or not. None at all.
As a guy I tend to like logical things. I have real issues dealing with and understanding emotional arguments. I can logically defend conservative values. I can look at these values and say with all honesty they stand up to the moral and ethical standards that i have. I can hold them up to scrutiny and often do and they always hold water.
Liberal philosophy doesn’t make logical sense. I find many ethical and moral issues with this way of thinking. I find that logic tends to debunk most Liberal philosophies. I always look to Gert’s Rules as my measure if something is moral and right. Liberal ideology violates many of these rules. I do not subscribe to the idea of situational ethics, something that I feel is a requirement to have Liberal beliefs.
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By: Noah on June 22, 2011
at 9:03 AM
alaskapi –
Well spoken. At the risk of sounding like George Wallace (“Some of my best friends are Nigrahs.”) I want to say the same about Liberals – they are some of my Very Best Friends.
But I want to distinguish between what I call Real Liberals, Real Conservatives and Real Horse’s Asses. The first two argue like hell but always maintain a respect for – and a belief in – the fundamental decency of the other side.
When someone stops doing that, they are in my book the Horse’s Ass, and I will be on them like a duck on a June bug – I don’t care what their politics. That is why IMHO several chronic posters here have slunk off to the Chatty Kitchen with their backsides stinging. We are, after all, all Americans – and we deserve the respect that implies.
Back later. Gotta go put my soap box away.
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By: PFesser on June 22, 2011
at 8:31 AM
One small correction OYB- Alaska Pi is a she. An increasingly cranky and worried, almost old woman who is looking more and more at what we are handing off to our kids and grandkids. They have to take the world we hand them and right now it’s a mess.
Some days I can’t get past the hope I die before my grandkids are old enough to come knocking on the door asking what the hell we were all thinking.
Some days I see glimmers of what we might do to straighten things up some before we leave the house to them.
Noah-
Whatever the liberal “condition” is, I’m suffering far more from arthritis than the liberal thingy has ever called down on me.
As for the DISease-of-liberalism meme… pfft.
I am fully at ease in my liberalism.
It has long seemed to me that humans have need of the each and both – whether merely to curb the excesses of each that we may all stumble along semi-intact .
Since just about every human community has had and has a relatively static distribution of each I’m thinking it serves a purpose
I could be wrong- it could be in the water 😉
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By: alaskapi on June 22, 2011
at 8:10 AM
undecided –
Not to steal M or H’s thunder,but welcome to the forum! They don’t post much, but are bright and ornery and when they do, (usually Helen) they get the juices really flowing.
The level of conversation here varies but is generally pretty high. Lots of strong feelings, and an occasional off-topic poster waxing eloquent and long with his/her particular fetish, but if you don’t let that bother you it is definitely worth wading through.
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By: PFesser on June 22, 2011
at 7:16 AM
OYB dont sweat it. I won’t hold you accountable for not reading the very last post so let me hold your hand and help you out. In the post riiiiight above yours I said,
alaskapi, if you can great. Why I chose to say Liberal and not you by name. I am trying to be broad in my description of the Liberal condition and not call anyone person on here out on my description.
That would mean my good man that I was not targeting him specifically. Age happens to us all, happy to be of service.
Now I understand as a not-so-in-the-closet Liberal why you would see this information about Texas as too good to be true, so by all means continue to look for that stormy cloud.
Are you so wrapped up in your fear of what’s to come that you have given up making a difference?
I have fears but I am not afraid if that can make any sense to someone such as you? Politics is just a bunch of ideas floating around trying to accomplish some thing be it good or bad. Nothing to fear there if one is truly open minded. Problem we have here is almost no one is open minded. And even fewer have any integrity. We have posted on scores of Liberal Dems who have been caught in one scandal or another and not one time has anyone had anything to say or denounced the activity. A Republican leaves his car running to go get a beverage in the store, and they paint him an enemy of the Earth and contributing to global warming.
How us conservatives differ? We have integrity to pick out what is right and wrong and call it like it is, even when it is not to our advantage. On Glen Beck yesterday Chris Christie was a person they have had a lot of good to say and have been very kind to him in the past. Due to some things that have come up in the news in the last couple days they spent 45 minutes or more raking him over the coals for what he did and said at an open town hall meeting and some measures he is introducing in the coal industry. Does not matter to anyone of any intellectual honesty what party Christie belongs too. When he strayed Glen called him on it, something you just don’t see from Liberals.
Most of the rest of your blathering stems from your initial false premise. Step up to the plate big guy and do some more research. I will make a couple more observations.
Then there was that stupid clip
Stupid Clip. And you say I give conservatives a bad name, not that you are one other than your own claim, but this guy’s plight is anything but stupid. I happen to think it is a tragedy but I applaud him for his “manipulation” of the system. He did what needed to be done. I will say you are probably the most uncaring person I have seen in quite sometime to classify this guy as a nut job. He is obviously in a great deal of pain. Pain can make people desperate and do things they might not otherwise do.
Stop being what you accuse everyone else of being. Stop arguing from a position of fear.
I can see why you think there is a reason to be scared. You are obviously concerned about yourself first and what is in it for you personally and you feel you have a lot to lose. I however being a true conservative, and by true I mean practicing, do not depend on the government nipple to make my way through life. I chose not to trust my fate in someone else by getting a job, and I created my own, as well as jobs for others. Fear stems from ignorance, so your fear is justifiable. I come here to understand the disease that is Liberalism so I am better prepared to defend against it. I don’t fear it because conservative values make too much logical sense. I know I am on strong moral and ethical ground defending and living by these values. Now I am not so naive to think I have it all figured out or that there is only one right answer, so I come here to find why people such as yourself think otherwise.
Your big problem seems to be with my methodology. I have been around these boards for many months. In that time I have never once attacked someone first. Many of us have previous history that you are ignorant too. Many of these people have gone out of their way to attack me personally in an attempt to drive me away. I have had my abilities as a father, and provider, called into question, what I do for a living and how I chose to spend my time criticized, nothing is beneath these people. To me that is our defining difference. I will win ethically, morally and with honor knowing I did my best to stick to my beliefs and values, while these Liberals have shown time and again, any action is justifiable as long as their agenda prevails. I guess I think “how” we get there matters.
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By: Noah on June 22, 2011
at 6:36 AM
Noah, you are missing so many good opportunities. This is why I said before that you make conservatives look bad. You are doing exactly what you accuse them of! You took an actual thinking liberal like AlaskaPi and assumed he was bashing conservatives when he wasn’t at all. He was expressing the skepticism of information that we ALL should have. You must know that we’re NEVER getting the whole truth! You call them sheep but you look pretty sheepish.
Are you so wrapped up in your fear of what’s to come that you have given up making a difference? You came out in favor of Rick Perry based on what you knew of him. Fine enough. AlaskaPi showed a lot of information why the point you favored might not be all it’s cracked up to be. You ASSUMED he was skeptical only because Perry is Republican and automatically discounted his point. You insulted him and bashed liberals again. You tossed in a reference to the Messiah (counter productive) even though AlaskaPi had shown skepticism of overall the employment picture which has to include Obama. The door was open a crack and you blew it. You make yourself look stupid when you do that. You become what you think they are!
AlaskaPi was right that it matters what those jobs were. If the jobs were tar ball pickers then it isn’t progress. Disaster cleanup isn’t recovery.
Then there was that stupid clip you posted about the guy who robbed a bank to get healthcare by going to jail. You swiped Obamacare like that had anything to do with it. Any liberal is going to look at that and say it’s a classic example of why single payer healthcare is needed in this country. WTF does this nut job have to do with Obamacare, pro OR con? Don’t help them, dude.
Stop being what you accuse everyone else of being. Stop arguing from a position of fear. It makes you look irrational. You could be teaching these people something. Trashing one blog isn’t going to make any of these people wake up and realize they are wrong. With your approach, you push them farther left instead of pulling them to the center. Help our cause or shut up. Thanks.
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By: OYB on June 22, 2011
at 2:27 AM
alaskapi, if you can great. Why I chose to say Liberal and not you by name. I am trying to be broad in my description of the Liberal condition and not call anyone person on here out on my description.
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By: Noah on June 21, 2011
at 10:42 PM
Noah- LOL!
Alaska has been run by Republicans for most of the last 30 years. And some damn fine ones along the way, BTW, Hickel and Hammond amongst the top. Some beanbags like Governors Murkowski and Palin too.
Voted for some of those Rs here too- the good ones and didn’t vote for some crummy Ds.
Don’t have any trouble giving Rs who do a good job props but not jumping on any un-inpected bandwagons either.
And still want to know about the data about those TX jobs- something good going on , great! Something short termy or not sustainable, then fooey.
If you want to read that as unable to allow that an R might do something ok fine, whatever floats your boat.
Have a hard time getting my aged R father to believe I don’t think the world of him though 🙂
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By: alaskapi on June 21, 2011
at 10:28 PM
I’m really tired tonight, and I don’t even know where to start trying to explain all the lies and misinformation spewed forth by Rick Perry.
Rick Perry is not on CNN, MSNBC, or the Ed Schultz show reporting his own news Elsie. Freedom of information act goes a long way to uncovering what the real truth is. If everything about the 50% of jobs being created is a lie, and 14 corporations moving into Texas from California is a lie, then your Liberal media is perpetuating this lie. and your anger should lie with them for their lack of research.
Even after this two year budget period, the state’s fiscal woes are far from over. The Lone Star State has a standing $10 billion shortfall every two-year budget cycle.
So what your saying is Republican goes 10 billion in debt and he is Satan…a Democrat goes 1.3 trillion and debt and he is the Messiah?
Those who figured it out, meanwhile, realized that, because the new tax was levied on gross margins as opposed to profits, companies could be losing money and still find themselves on the hook.
We had the Michigan small business tax made by one Democrat named Jennifer Grandholm. It taxes revenue so even if your business doesn’t show a profit you still owe the state a rather large tax bill. But she was a Lib so we can let that slide right?
blah-blah-blah….but our state and our citizens are suffering, and much worse is coming
Aside from the very articulate response, what is coming?
Educators and staff in my school district are being laid off by the hundreds
So I will find no state run by a Liberal where teachers are being laid off?
arrogant cronyism.
could you give me a Liberal definition of not only cronyism, but arrogant cronyism? This should be 2 separate definition if you were not keeping count.
So what your saying is that all of these jobs are either non existent, tainted, or somehow so bad that he cannot be given any credit for them? Ok lets say for the sake of argument this is so. This would mean all the credit the Messiah has been taking for job creation has to be adjusted 50% downward. Would you then by this readjustment say that the Messiah is still doing a good job, and that we are still in an economic recovery?
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By: Noah on June 21, 2011
at 10:27 PM
I’m sorry….I found two more good sites about Perry’s lies….
take a look and get educated —
http://www.texaskaos.com/
Also, notice —
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-debunks-praise-rick-perrys-t
“…Texas has created 265,000 “net new jobs” since the recession ended in June 2009 through April 2011, the (Wall Street) Journal reported.
“Texas’ unemployment rate tells a different story. It has gone up from 7.7% to 8.0% over that same period. And by that measure, Texas has done worse than the rest of the country since the peak of national unemployment in October 2009: that month the U.S. rate was 10.1% and Texas was 8.2%. Texas peaked at 8.3% last December, dropping to 8.0% in April, while the national rate has dropped a point since it’s peak to 9.1%…”
Plenty more there….Have at it….
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By: Elsie on June 21, 2011
at 10:09 PM
Welcome undecided. Look forward to hearing from you.
alaskapi, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but there is always a double standard. When the Messiah does anything positive, he is not greeted with any of this intense scrutiny or suspicious doubt. People here are still cheering about finally being in an economic recovery, because Obama and the media told them so, yet the housing market is in its worst shape in history and unemployment continues to rise.
1%, 5%, maybe 10% I can see the argument, lets wait and see. One does not accomplish the monumental task of creating 50% of all the new jobs in the nation in a single state by mishap or accident. While you are waiting for the other shoe to drop, millions of people are unemployed and wondering how they are going to support themselves and their families.
How big does the success have to be for a Liberal to give credence and support to a Republican? This is an amazing accomplishment no matter how you look at it. IF at the end of the day Liberals still cannot give props because it is a Republican, then I have some sound evidence that this country’s best interest has nothing to do with the Liberal agenda. Does it really matter if it is a Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican as long as at the end of the day we get back on the path to recovery?
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By: Noah on June 21, 2011
at 10:05 PM
I’m really tired tonight, and I don’t even know where to start trying to explain all the lies and misinformation spewed forth by Rick Perry. Take a peek at the following link, and maybe you will get a feel for why you cannot believe what he says. He’s a master at twisting facts, deleting information, making accusations, and throwing out “the dog whistle phrases” that appeal to his base.
“The Texas Observer” came out with a great article today at http://www.tnr.com/node/90370
“Rick Perry: Why His Texas Record Is Much Worse Than You Think” — Notice the budget gap, the draconian budget cuts, accounting tricks to soften blows to state programs, short-funding Medicaid nearly $5 billion, cutting education by $4 billion.
In fact,
“It will mark the first time Texas has cut funding for public schools since 1949, when the state first took a prominent role in financing them. Even the Texas Association of Business, a conservative, pro-business coalition if ever there was one, has expressed concerns over some of the cuts to schools and early childhood education.
“Our state runs the risk of falling short on our commitment to Texas school children and businesses that rely on a well-educated workforce,” the group proclaimed in one March press release.”
That’s not the least of it, though…
“Even after this two year budget period, the state’s fiscal woes are far from over. The Lone Star State has a standing $10 billion shortfall every two-year budget cycle, thanks to a faulty tax system pushed by Perry that fails to balance the budget.”
…”Perry engineered a new business tax in 2006 to replace a prior one riddled with loopholes. Ostensibly a good idea, his new tax nonetheless suffered from the simple fact that it didn’t bring in enough revenue. Furthermore, it turned out to be incredibly complex, leaving many business owners scratching their heads. Those who figured it out, meanwhile, realized that, because the new tax was levied on gross margins as opposed to profits, companies could be losing money and still find themselves on the hook.
“State legislators on both sides of the aisle have decried Perry’s ill-conceived fiscal planning. The chief Senate budget writer, Republican Steve Ogden, hasn’t been afraid to mince words about just how bad the business tax is….”
Like I said, read the whole thing at http://www.tnr.com/node/90370.
Do NOT believe anything that Perry says. He’s been a horrible governor. He says what the Republicans want to hear….big business…blah-blah-blah….but our state and our citizens are suffering, and much worse is coming.
Educators and staff in my school district are being laid off by the hundreds. Texas is in deep trouble, made far worse by Perry’s bad decisions and arrogant cronyism.
Google “Trans Texas Corridor”…. a truly horrible plan of Perry’s to build a boondoggle. This was to be a “massive super-highway-rail-utility project launched by Governor Perry in 2002. Ten vehicle lanes, six rail tracks, utilities, pipelines, state concessions (gas stations, restaurants, motels, stores, warehouses, etc.) all on 4,000 miles of toll roads that will consume more than one-half million acres of Texas”. One estimate was a cost of $185 billion in tax dollars, and then all of it would be turned over to a Spanish consortium to collect tolls and run it! Right….a company from SPAIN. You had to wonder how big the payoffs were to Perry and his cronies for all that nonsense. The voters rejected that bullshit.
Google “Texas governor orders STD vaccine for all girls”….that executive order was going to benefit his buddy, the Merck lobbyist, and Merck, of course, as well as maybe some other friends of Perry, by forcing Texas parents to have their young daughters used as guinea pigs, statewide, for STD vaccinations. That also backfired, due to parental outrage.
It’s late. I’m done. Perry’s an asshat for a multitude of reasons, mostly because Texas is dire straits, and he keeps lying about all of that.
READ THE LINK!
http://www.tnr.com/node/90370
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By: Elsie on June 21, 2011
at 9:57 PM
Hello. I have been going around to different blogs for a long time, reading but not commenting. I don’t care for the one liner snipping. I recently came across this one. The ladies are amusing but I find the comment section is a much more intelligent conversation than most blogs. I have business to tend to and my free time is often only late at night. I cannot comment as frequently as many, but I will continue to read. May I join in?
I am a lifelong independent. I try to concentrate on the issues and not too much on individuals. This country has serious problems that need to be addressed. I like to read differing views from other places and how they are approached. I also like to read opinions but prefer if they are cited. It is easier to tell the bias that way.
The inter-net has become an information phenomenon. Often it is more widely read and respected than any other media. I would suspect that sociologists are studying the effects on public opinion. I am sure it hold more than any other influences in modern times.
Thank you.
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By: undecided on June 21, 2011
at 9:44 PM
You can call me sour if you want, I call myself cautious.
I come from a young state whose whole history is based on booms and busts and bending over backwards for corporate interests.
There’s a whole contingent of folks who wish for another Exxon-Valdez type oil spill here because the money flowed like wine then. While they are obviously not terribly interested in sound fiscal policy or sustainable jobs and growth it is always in the back of my mind when people talk jobs- what kind of jobs, wages, and who is hiring…
If Texas has figured out how to encourage long term jobs without giving away the farm (play now , pay later like CA and a couple others did) I’ll dance in the streets- my neighbors already think I’m goofy.
If they are having a mini-boom and it lets folks feed themselves and house their familes I will be thankful but hope they all get enough warning when the bust comes to do something else.
I hired a young man from Libby , Montana a year ago. Excellent worker, good person.
We’ve talked a lot about how hard it was for him to leave his hometown and everything he grew up with to find work.
Libby did well while a mine was there and folks didn’t want to rock the employment boat but grew more and more worried about health problems there. While W R Grace was aquitted of KNOWINGLY exposing folks to tremolite the fact remains that they did expose them for decades. The young fellow who works for me will be part of health monitoring as part of the settlement – for the rest of his life.
“The vermiculite, with uses that included insulation, was contaminated with a deadly form of asbestos known as tremolite. More than 200 people have died and an additional 1,200 Libby residents so far have been identified as having asbestos-related lung abnormalities as a result of being exposed to the asbestos from the mine. Libby’s population totals about 8,000 people. ”
http://meic.onenw.org/mining/hardrock-mining/mine_cleanup/w-r-grace-mine-libby/libby-background
We have a lot of similar stories and issues here so I’m already primed to want to know what kind of jobs, from whom, etc.
Read whatever you want to into it- I’m always for the working families of this country. Always.
And good and decent jobs which do not pit them against themselves in other ways- like what the folks in Libby lived with as regards their largest employer.
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By: alaskapi on June 21, 2011
at 9:31 PM
My questions for them would be more on the line of WHAT kind of jobs have been created, wages, where, what kind of accommodations have been made for businesses who are hiring, etc
Is there an answer that can sour this accomplishment? 50% of all jobs created came from one state. 50%. I am sure the shear number of jobs we are talking about the type is all across the board. But for 1 state out of 50 to create 50% of the jobs is a success no matter what. The city 15 minutes south of where I live was the number 1 city for unemployment in the nation. I promise you the people here would be celebrating in the streets were we to see this kind of growth. Search as long and hard as you like for that storm cloud, I would rather find a way to mimic this tremendous accomplishment.
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By: Noah on June 21, 2011
at 8:36 PM
well- Noah, whether you are interested or not in Elsie’s response regarding Mr Perry- I am. She’s a lifelong Texan. I’d also be interested in Craig’s take if and when he has time or inclination. ( Sure hoping things are going well for Val )
My questions for them would be more on the line of WHAT kind of jobs have been created, wages, where, what kind of accommodations have been made for businesses who are hiring, etc. Here we have to report every person who worked for us quarterly to DoL-and the state counts people as employed whether they work 10 hrs/wk or 40. A lot of people work 2 or 3 jobs to get by but with all the fiddling with the employment data you’d think jobs are falling out of the woodwork and they are not. We’ve been lucky not to have as much trouble as many have but it’s not as rosy as some of the figures are viewed as showing.
Thank you Helen and Margaret for having us all in. Would really like to know YOUR take on Mr Perry too, Helen!
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By: alaskapi on June 21, 2011
at 8:11 PM
Obama Care…how great an idea was it? Lets take a real life example and search for an answer.
http://consumerist.com/2011/06/man-holds-up-bank-for-1-and-free-prison-medical-care.html
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By: Noah on June 21, 2011
at 1:04 PM
elsie09, sorry for your bout of diarrhea there, you seem passionate as predicted not because of what he has accomplished, or not, but rather that he is a Republican and for no other reason. As predicted, results are not enough for Liberals, which is telling. I cannot say at this point I would back or not back him I will have to read more. I will say I think we need a person who is willing to be a one term President, knowing he will have to do what is right for this country,, and because of those hard choices won’t be reelected, but decides what is right is more important than catering to the weakest among us.
Fiscal issues seem to me to be our greatest problem. Unemployment seems to be a major problem right now. This guy obviously has the answers. Not because i say so, but because he has a working model that says so. Now if you can tell me we don’t need the rest of the country performing like Texas, and can make an argument that supports that. I am all ears.
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By: Noah on June 21, 2011
at 12:54 PM
elsie09 –
Thanks. I have done a little research and it appears that Perry is pretty financially savvy, so no complaints there. I dont’ care if he is a “crony” – whatever that means, if he is creating jobs for ordinary folks and he seems to get good marks there from a lot of people.
I am concerned about his idealogy, which seems to be straight down the right-wing dominionist alley and that scares me enough to eliminate him.
Man, are the pickin’s thin for the GOP this election! Ah, for the good old days of Dirksen, et al…honest, honorable men who are most of all, tolerant.
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By: PFesser on June 21, 2011
at 12:40 PM
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/15/rick-can-crawl-back-into-his-10000-a-month-rent-house/
BUT LET’S NOT FORGET THESE:
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/14/no-no-wait-he-meant-profit-not-prophet/
which is, in turn, linked to
***
Okay, that’s just about the last week, or so, of Juanita Jean’s commentary specific to Perry.
You are on your own from there.
Gotta get back to work.
Have a nice day.
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By: elsie09 on June 21, 2011
at 12:07 PM
AND ESPECIALLY THESE:
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/16/rick-perry-and-snake-oil-cancer-cures/
AND
http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/documents-detail-convergens-secret-application-for-state-grant-1542611.html?cxtype=rss_news
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By: elsie09 on June 21, 2011
at 12:05 PM
ALSO
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/18/but-as-anthony-weiner-proved-it-is-possible-to-text-from-your-vagina/
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/17/because-we-know-them-best/
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By: elsie09 on June 21, 2011
at 12:04 PM
But, more specifically:
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/21/we-gotta-get-out-of-this-place-if-its-the-last-thing-we-ever-do/
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/20/god-answers-rick-perrys-prayer-for-rain-heres-ya-some-brimstone-cowboy/
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By: elsie09 on June 21, 2011
at 12:03 PM
Rick Perry is the personification of Gee-Oh-Pee cronyism. He is often described as “just like George W. Bush, but not as smart”.
Here are a couple of websites that can educate anyone who might be interested in learning a bit more about Perry from the perspectives of actual Texans:
***
http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/10951/rick-perrys-coverup-and-corruption-a-ten-part-series
and
http://juanitajean.com/
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By: elsie09 on June 21, 2011
at 12:01 PM
Rick Perry is the personification of Gee-Oh-Pee cronyism. He is often described as “just like George W. Bush, but not as smart”.
Here are a couple of websites that can educate anyone who might be interested in learning a bit more about Perry from the perspectives of actual Texans:
***
http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/10951/rick-perrys-coverup-and-corruption-a-ten-part-series
and
http://juanitajean.com/
***
But, more specifically:
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/21/we-gotta-get-out-of-this-place-if-its-the-last-thing-we-ever-do/
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/20/god-answers-rick-perrys-prayer-for-rain-heres-ya-some-brimstone-cowboy/
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/18/but-as-anthony-weiner-proved-it-is-possible-to-text-from-your-vagina/
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/17/because-we-know-them-best/
AND ESPECIALLY THESE:
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/16/rick-perry-and-snake-oil-cancer-cures/
AND
http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/documents-detail-convergens-secret-application-for-state-grant-1542611.html?cxtype=rss_news
AND
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/15/rick-can-crawl-back-into-his-10000-a-month-rent-house/
BUT LET’S NOT FORGET THESE:
http://juanitajean.com/2011/06/14/no-no-wait-he-meant-profit-not-prophet/
which is, in turn, linked to
http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/2011/06/perry-describes-himself-as-a-prophet-tells-fox-hes-thinking-about-white-house-bid/
***
Okay, that’s just about the last week of so of Juanita Jean’s commentary that is specific to Perry.
You are on your own from there.
Gotta get back to work.
Have a nice day.
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By: elsie09 on June 21, 2011
at 11:37 AM
I don”t know a great deal about Rick Perry. I do know he is going a bang up job in Texas. #1 export state in the nation. Has created more jobs in Texas than the other 49 States combined. While other states were loosing jobs at an alarming rate at the height of the recession, his state created 225,000 jobs during that time. Of the 70+ companies that left California during this same time, 14 went to Texas. The Governor of California was so impressed he went to Texas to have a meeting with Perry to try and learn how he is attracting all this business. What I find delightfully ironic is that Texas has no State Income Tax. Funny how creating an economic climate friendly to business can do things for ones state. What will also be telling will be the Liberal response. I foresee 2 answers. 1) Will ignore it has it proves them wrong (they are never wrong you know) 2) Some Liberal Governor from 20 years ago set policy that made it possible for this prosperity now. End of the day results will not be enough for Liberals. I am sure he cut down a tree somewhere that made a squirrel homeless and they will crucify him for it.
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By: Noah on June 21, 2011
at 7:34 AM
I just saw this Jon Huntsman guy for the first time. Noah, do you know anything about him? I checked out Rick Perry and ran away in terror, so I’m still looking for somebody decent in the Loyal Opposition to give Bo a run for his money.
Looks like they are going to bring some of the boys (and girls) home from Afghanistan. Yay!
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By: pfesser53 on June 21, 2011
at 5:05 AM
Noah=boil on the butt
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By: Anonymous on June 20, 2011
at 11:13 PM
Hell I will even entertain the notion you care for someone other than yourself and we can substitute jealousy for shame.
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By: Noah on June 20, 2011
at 11:17 AM
If I were to guess jsri, your rantings smack of jealousy. I am out doing the work you Liberals talk about but never get the time to get done.. See if I wasn’t self motivated enough to start a business, your kind wouldn’t have a job. See, if I wasn’t out there feeding my personal greed, I would never be able to afford the $4000 we spend every summer on programs for the kids. Think I will take my proactive approach to the problems we face over your best intentions any day.
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By: Noah on June 20, 2011
at 11:12 AM
jsri, just keep on guessing, seems to suit you well.
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By: Noah on June 20, 2011
at 11:06 AM
Noah
I guess you don’t read your own stuff.
It’s your sort of logic.
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By: jsri on June 20, 2011
at 10:47 AM
alaskapi. lot of information. I am struggling to find your opinion in all of this. I would assume with my understanding of what I have read you are opposed to this line of thinking.
As with most philosophical thoughts categorized in this way, most end up being found as a whole false, but with elements of truth. An example of this is Cultural Relativism. While at the end of the day it is false as it is stated, I also believe that reworded it could be made a true statement.
I think it is also so with Neo-Liberalism. How I would do that I am not exactly sure yet, and it might be conditional in a perfect world type scenario, but I do find elements I can support.
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By: Noah on June 20, 2011
at 9:52 AM
Craig- this is also all by the way of attempting to answer a question you asked ages ago about what -do-we-do about the loss of jobs which has damaged us so badly…
A project I’m a tiny part of here led me to this:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8330.2007.00536.x/abstract;jsessionid=4B15077339F4EEB52EF18C2C382388BC.d01t03
and opened a whole series of conversations we are only just beginning to able to have about CDQs. The author here is mostly full of horsepunky as to the value of CDQs on the social justice front because the metrics for measuring such are of the sort which I think of as” taking the temperature of the picture of the people on the box the thermometer came in “- which is mostly of the variety which talks about dollars piling up here and there as if it describes the actual situation people live in.
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By: alaskapi on June 20, 2011
at 9:41 AM
jsri, that is quite possibly the most ignorant thing I have seen on this board.
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By: Noah on June 20, 2011
at 9:35 AM
alaskapi –
A lot to digest. Let me do a little of that and see how it goes.
jsri –
Man, you gotta tighten up your thought processes! You can’t play with the thinkers when you spout total nonsense.
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By: PFesser on June 20, 2011
at 9:23 AM
PFesser-
In a more direct response, I think we have to figure out HOW to “separate economic issues from social and political issues.”’
At whatever level there is no stuffing it all back in the box, it is time to take stock of what we have done.
Human institutions , of which economic policy is one, are notorious for taking on a “life” of their own. It’s tough to figure out how to make them subordinate to the humans who created them again but necessary.
The change in what we call individual responsibility in the last 30 years has been of particular interest to me within my very left-libertarian mindset.
In too many instances what the authors say here:
“ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF “THE PUBLIC GOOD” or “COMMUNITY” and replacing it with “individual responsibility.” Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves — then blaming them, if they fail, as “lazy.”
Around the world, neo-liberalism has been imposed by powerful financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank. It is raging all over Latin America. The first clear example of neo-liberalism at work came in Chile (with thanks to University of Chicago economist Milton Friedman), after the CIA-supported coup against the popularly elected Allende regime in 1973. Other countries followed, with some of the worst effects in Mexico where wages declined 40 to 50% in the first year of NAFTA while the cost of living rose by 80%. Over 20,000 small and medium businesses have failed and more than 1,000 state-owned enterprises have been privatized in Mexico. As one scholar said, “Neoliberalism means the neo-colonization of Latin America.””
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376
appears to be the consequence. The substitution of community ethics with an ethics based on the individual’s relationship to the market has largely gone un-inspected and yet pieces of it permeate our view of ourselves and each other now. Perhaps not as this author says but he’s onto pieces of it :
“As you would expect from a complete philosophy, neoliberalism has answers to stereotypical philosophical questions such as “Why are we here” and “What should I do?”. We are here for the market, and you should compete. Neo-liberals tend to believe that humans exist for the market, and not the other way around: certainly in the sense that it is good to participate in the market, and that those who do not participate have failed in some way. In personal ethics, the general neoliberal vision is that every human being is an entrepreneur managing their own life, and should act as such. Moral philosophers call this is a virtue ethic, where human beings compare their actions to the way an ideal type would act – in this case the ideal entrepreneur. Individuals who choose their friends, hobbies, sports, and partners, to maximise their status with future employers, are ethically neoliberal. This attitude – not unusual among ambitious students – is unknown in any pre-existing moral philosophy, and is absent from early liberalism. Such social actions are not necessarily monetarised, but they represent an extension of the market principle into non-economic area of life – again typical for neoliberalism.
The idea of employability is characteristically neoliberal. It means that neoliberals see it as a moral duty of human beings, to arrange their lives to maximise their advantage on the labour market. Paying for plastic surgery to improve employability (almost entirely by women) is a typical neoliberal phenomenon – one of those which would surprise Adam Smith.
Eileen Bradbury, a psychologist who advises surgeons at the Alexandra Hospital in Cheadle, Cheshire, said she was particularly worried that Jenna wanted the operation so that she could be successful. “That is a very disturbing belief for a 15-year-old girl to have, and also a false one,” she said. “I have seen women coming for surgery who work in television and they say they have to have it done or they won’t get the work. I usually go along with that because it is probably true”.
Guardian: Parents defend breast implants for girl, 15.
In practice many ‘workfare neoliberals’ also believe that there is a separate category of people, who can not participate fully in the market. Workfare ideologies condemn this underclass to a service function for those who are fully market-compatible. Note however, that by recognising a non-market underclass, neoliberals undermine their own claims about the universal applicability of market principles.”
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/neoliberalism.html
So what do you think? Others?
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By: alaskapi on June 20, 2011
at 8:37 AM
What I learned along the way: (using Noah’s logic)
Most business people are conservatives. (To make it simple, I’ll refer to them appropriately as Cons).
Many business people lie, cheat, and steal.
Ergo, Cons lie cheat or steal. Henceforth, when you think of Cons, you may think lying, cheating and stealing.
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By: jsri on June 20, 2011
at 8:31 AM
P.S. JEAN, our troops still deserve that apology from your earlier smearing.
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By: Noah on June 19, 2011
at 9:45 PM
Question: I know you think greed is good, but if you treat your employees like dirt, as I suspect you might, how do you stay in business?
Might be in your best interest not to lead with assumptions jsri, whatever insights you think you have made about me seem to have lead you to many false conclusions The economy has hit Michigan hard I am making less now that I was 8 years ago. We have cut our income so we did not have to lay off a single employee. 3 of my employees take home more a week now that I do. In a years time I hope that will correct itself. As for how I stay in business, I believe a business has a responsibility to its community and to its workers. We support summer programs that keep kids off the streets while school is out. I have not had to lay off a single employee since this recession hit. We have cut our pay 75% and we are using our savings to get by. We have company activities twice a year that families are invited too, Once a month I pay for food to be brought in and treat my employees to a lunch and extend their lunch period to an hour and let them out an hour early paid. I have found this to make my workers more productive and more apt to put in overtime when needed. The company takes care of them, they take care of the company. A simple philosophy that has served me well these past 13 years.
Question: If you are against promoting programs that serve the common good
Might you be a tad more specific? I believe the flue shot program is for the common good and I support that. Is that what you were referring too? As for that whole going off the grid thing I think your liberal self is just shining through and your starting to be petty. Grow the f#ck up.
Question: Do you find that it is a waste of money using taxes to support these students in state colleges or would you prefer having them out on the streets working as independent contractors jacking cars or dealing dope
Typical Liberal question. Aside from you being an asshole I will address this. As stated before I help fund a summer program, specifically 28 individual basketball teams that play against one another on the weekend for a championship at the end of the summer. We donate to help keep the community swimming pools open. I work with West Division church providing brown bag dinners to kids. I also work with a not for profit teaching young adults how to “turn their hustle into a business.” As I stated in a previous post, I believe education should be in our top 5 expenditures as a nation. I would support in an instant performance based funded education to a Masters level. To not invest in ourselves and our kids is folly, I’m sure even you can grasp that concept.
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By: Noah on June 19, 2011
at 9:43 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Alaskapi, I appreciate your taking the time to help us become aware of the situation in Alaska. Few of us would have an opportunity to learn much about it in detail otherwise. You have worked hard to identify what is going on and possible solutions in this complex, ever changing world.
And on this Father’s Day, jsri, your personal experiences are shining examples of what it means to be a successful dad and granddad.
So jsri and alaskapi I applaud you both for the fine human beings you are! (Oops! albeit flaming Lib’ral Progressives.)
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 19, 2011
at 6:41 PM
Noah! Noah! Noah!
Issue #1. After my wife and I retired, we opened a small business that offered services to other businesses. For the first few years our employees made more than we did. We paid them the going wage for the area and offered medical benefits and a retirement plan, on a matched contribution basis. My wife concentrated on customer service while I took care of operations. In our training, we made it clear that we expected the employees to be the face of the business to our customers while we worked in the background. At the point in its evolution that the employees were taking care of business efficiently, and it was beginning to become profitable, my wife came down with a debilitating medical condition that was made worse by inept diagnoses. Her condition worsened to the point where we had to put the business up for sale.
We found a buyer who agreed to keep the employees we had hired but within a couple months all were gone as he slashed their wages and benefits and hired relatives to replace them. He was so intent upon sucking as much money out of the business as he could manage, he failed to see that it was going down the tubes. It closed within six months. While he saw employees as automatons we saw them as humans.
Question: I know you think greed is good, but if you treat your employees like dirt, as I suspect you might, how do you stay in business?
Issue #2. Our grandson #1 is an exceptional student, ranking in the 99th percentile by most measures. When picking a college, he passed on the Ivies even though both his parents and two of his grandparents had degrees from one of them. His choice was a top tier university that had the sort of programs that interested him, not necessarily his parents or others. They accepted him and awarded a generous and much appreciated tuition reduction. His primary and secondary schooling were mostly private and cost his parents a small fortune. During the same period they paid substantial state and local taxes and never once thought about demanding a rebate or crying that their taxes should not support all those welfare parasites you seem so intent upon castigating. They are well aware of the costs of promoting the common good.
Question: If you are against promoting programs that serve the common good, are you willing to withhold taxes and contract independently for things like police and fire protection, education and military support. If so, I’d like to know how you intend to carry that one off. And when you go off the grid, how will you upload your cantankerous messages to this site?
Issue #3. Grandson, when an early teen, went to a summer camp catering mostly to inner city kids. He was so effective dealing with and helping other campers that the camp directors asked him to return the following year as a counselor in training. When he reached 16, they hired him and since then he never has had to worry about summer employment. One reason he likes the work is that he sees kids that have much more potential than they can imagine and he takes the opportunity to implant the idea in their minds that there may be much to be gained from further education. And in this morning’s paper there was a list of students from a major metropolitan area who were the valedictorians of their respective high schools who might have come from the same circumstances as the campers. Mostly foreign born, ESL students, little or no money, some will be going to top tier schools, e.g.. MIT and Ivies, but many will be attending local state colleges and universities.
Question: Do you find that it is a waste of money using taxes to support these students in state colleges or would you prefer having them out on the streets working as independent contractors jacking cars or dealing dope?
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By: jsri on June 19, 2011
at 3:19 PM
Here is an absolutely perfect example of Liberal twisting and manipulation of the truth. Look at the title of the article then read it. It is written as if all christian Republicans everywhere stood up and backed this. Rather than one misguided individual writing an opinion piece. This is EXACTLY why Liberals cannot be trusted or have anything they say taken at face value. This guy writes articles in publications like Town & Country and Reader’s Digest, and he is supposed to speak for the entire christian right? No integrity, manipulative, deceitful, all qualities the Liberal Left seem to covet.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/religious-right-rapist-rights
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By: Noah on June 19, 2011
at 1:29 PM
PFesser-
Essential to Bromley’s arguments is inspection of underlying or un-inspected rationales:
Click to access FISH%20FRONTIER.pdf
something which is missing in a lot of other folks’ work.
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By: alaskapi on June 19, 2011
at 9:12 AM
PFesser-
I’ve been reading this gent’s work a lot and am greatly intrigued.
Click to access italy.pdf
It is his work in fisheries related management and law which first led me to him. He has hold of so many things about the fisheries issues here that I’ve started casting about in his other works.
http://www.aae.wisc.edu/dbromley/
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By: alaskapi on June 19, 2011
at 8:56 AM
Noah-
I spent much of the last day wishing I hadn’t shot off my mouth about trying to share some of the unique situations facing the poor here in Alaska because as soon as I started trying to think about explaining it I realized the whole thing has almost no corollary outside Alaska to help explain context.
I’ll take a couple shots at it and see where it lands…
I’ve spent almost 40 years being involved at various levels in the issues facing rural, mostly poor , mostly native Alaska.
In the last 10 I have had the honor of playing a tiny part in a program designed to expose young people from the villages to what lies outside their current horizons as they start to plan their futures.
Many things in this report are still true today :
“The 2(c) report describes the changes in the economic picture of a village:
“As money becomes more important, subsistence survival confronts the cash economy. People are torn between moving away to larger villages and cities in search of jobs or remaining in villages where jobs are few and public assistance is one of the few means available to acquire cash for things that must be bought.”20
“More remote villages in northern and western Alaska were less affected by these trends, but in recent years it has become apparent that all rural Alaska villagers are in an economic trap because of the transition from subsistence to cash. They are unable to return to a complete subsistence life, nor are they able to earn enough cash to buy food, supplies and services required to live comfortably in the larger villages.”21”
from http://www.alaskool.org/projects/ancsa/tcc/tcc_ancsa.htm
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By: alaskapi on June 19, 2011
at 8:39 AM
alaskapi –
I saw that article. Thanks much. I have to say it has caused me to rethink a lot of things I had taken for granted. I haven’t changed my mind, mind you, but it is certainly a POV that bears investigation, because I have to say that – beginning with NAFTA – the lot of the average American has gone steadily downhill.
But then again, I’m not sure it is avoidable no matter what. The poorer nations want their share of the pie too, and they are willing to work for a lot less in order to get it.
Thoughts?
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By: PFesser on June 19, 2011
at 8:27 AM
Noah-
I would urge you to look at this as an explanation of why I say much of what we face is not internal. The absorption of neoliberal ideas and acceptance of it’s rationale is now ingrained in our national culture , to the point we no longer question the larger framework but spend endless hours arguing with each other over it’s fallout.
What was presumed to be a response to a crisis at the time has become a norm which has serious failings we would do ourselves a favor to look at.
“Joseph Stiglitz, former World Bank Chief Economist (1997 to 2000), Nobel Laureate in Economics and now strong opponent of the ideology pushed by the IMF and of the current forms of globalization, notes that economic globalization in its current form risks exacerbating poverty and increasing violence if not checked, because it is impossible to separate economic issues from social and political issues.”
http://www.globalissues.org/article/39/a-primer-on-neoliberalism#Neoliberalismis
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By: alaskapi on June 19, 2011
at 8:15 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
An almost belated Happy Father’s Day to all you dads and granddads out there! Year in and year out, you are the quietly hardworking, honorable role models for the next generation or two. You are legion. My 82 year-old ‘boy toy’ is one of them. I salute all of you!!!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 18, 2011
at 5:23 PM
Ahmadinnerjacket’s call for a security alliance of several formers Societ nations and China to form a security alliance strikes me as a bluff asn in poker. It is not beyond this guy to do just that. I am thinking of some of the former Soviet nations closest to Iran and they all end in “stan” such as Kazakstan. Whereas they may have some natural resources thats about all they’ve got. And China? Why should they get in bed with him? Look at what they own! And not just us!
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By: Anonymous on June 18, 2011
at 12:41 PM
week=weak
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By: Noah on June 18, 2011
at 12:07 PM
I don’t see how this isn’t an internal problem but you are welcome to expand on that if you wish. I have spend the last 3 years becoming educated here in Michigan on the topic of inner city poor kids and families. Would be interesting to hear what is comparable with your situation in Alaska.
Reported earlier this week, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called for a security alliance of several former Soviet nations and China to form a united front against the West.
This to me is a sign the predators have caught the sent of a week/wounded animal. As 3rd world nations cease to be 3rd world nations I think it is inevitable that those with opposing points of view ban together against us.
No one can argue that the housing market is at its lowest point in history. Since Obama signed the stimulus package, 1.9 million fewer people are working. We are not in a recovery as the government would have you believe. We raise the debt ceiling, we keep printing money, we are doing everything except for what we should do. We have to put our fiscal house in order while (if) there is still time left to do it.
MY WP is all kinds of funky as well..not a big fan of the change.
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By: Noah on June 18, 2011
at 12:06 PM
Noah- ANYONE who feels what we are doing, including out of control govt spending, is sustainable is asleep. Or had one too many beers after dinner…
The arguments lie in the what-to-do-about-it column.
I disagree that our current situation is primarily internal . We have internalized the arguments as us v them, me v you, but I think we do ourselves no favors by limiting the argument that way.
IF you want and others can stand it I can share some of the unique situations facing much of Alaska’s poor.
And quite frankly, Alaskans who are paying attention are extraordinarily aware of what the possible fallout of a further economic collapse might mean to their very existence…
————-Is anyone else battling the new WP comment dealie with your old comments reappearing and navigation within a new one making whole screen do something akin to st vitus dance?
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By: alaskapi on June 18, 2011
at 11:06 AM
Dependency is the tool of choice when one wishes to control a population. Welfare and other social programs are the perfect way to create dependance. I am not for abolishing them but I am certainly not for creating more as this administration is doing. The results from this dependency is in front of our eyes in many of our poor today. You say this is too simplistic, I say it doesn’t need to be complex to be true.
I understand your point of view on the end of the world stuff. However I think we are faced again with a unique set of circumstances. The threat that was yesterday was almost always from without, this time it is from within. We are doing this to ourselves. Unsustainable is a word that should scare the hell out of you. When attached to words like debt and spending, there are severe consequences when that unsustainable point is reached.
When you look at how dependent the majority of people have become on welfare and government assistance, and technology, and how few of us know how to survive without these things. Imagine what would happen should the economy collapse.
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By: Noah on June 18, 2011
at 10:02 AM
Noah- yes, it is. The similarity in your personal experience with a family member and what could be said to be part of the outfall of a government program certainly has some correspondence but is a simplistic view of poverty and welfare programs. Conservative thought has had a great hand in shaping welfare policy over the years right alongside liberal thought. The results are on all hands.
While I sympathize with your worry and concern about what a mess things are I would say every generation has similar dark sides in working out what and where we are going.
The 50s are viewed with rose colored glasses all too often and the many uproars of the early 60s which grew out of what was going on rocked the world of most Americans just as surely as the hash we are in now has us all up in arms.I think we would be better off to look closely at what we were doing in the 50s to undersatnd what the failures were which led to the tumult of the 50s.
Planning an escape hatch for yourself is all well and good but the EOTWAWKI thingy has popped up regularly throughout time so it is nothing new. When I was small people were building bomb shelters in their back yards and stocking them with food and guns… same ole, same ole…
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By: alaskapi on June 18, 2011
at 9:15 AM
“The problem is we are seeing these things taken from us one little piece at a time. It is spun in such a way that it is disguised as being for the greater good, so we accept it.”
The death of a thousand cuts. Or, boiling a frog by raising the temperature slowly enough.
Here’s what Brandeis had to say about it, and I think current events bear it out:
“The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding. …”
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By: PFesser on June 18, 2011
at 8:59 AM
just plain silly to assume “generational poverty and dependance” flows from a single source be it welfare or whatever
NO it is not. It is human nature to take the path of least resistance. I learned the hard way with my brother loaning him tens of thousands of dollars over the years that I was harming him by helping him. He only grew dependent upon me because when things got bad his big brother would always be there to write another check. I did him a great disservice by helping him as I did over the years and he is paying the price for that now later in life. Welfare is the same way. When the state becomes a crutch people forgot how they lived without it.
Now I am not as you suggested trying to say it is thee single reason for poverty. Your claim that is what I meant does not debunk my argument. It is a massive contributing factor. What better way to enslave a population than to make it so they cannot live without you. 50% of people in the US right now get some form of government assistance. Who here think this trend is growing and who here thinks this is sustainable?
Last year and this year the wife and I decided to forgo a vacation and we are stocking up on long lasting food sources and and medical supplies in a little place out of the way off the grid for us to go should the need arise. The electricians we employ to do our electrical at my business were having a conversation about this topic this past winter. They went in on a piece of property together in May and are working to have it be able to provide for both their families should things go really south. I was talking to a very affluent casual friend of mine, who I never pictured doing anything like this, and he said “what took you so long.” He had done this very thing 3 years ago. The wife and I were feeling that we might have been a bit overreacting so it was reassuring to see other, what I would consider very smart and stable people, doing the very same thing.
In my lifetime I have never seen such a perfect storm for disaster as I see today in our country. The housing market is now worse than it was during the great depression. Our unemployment is staggering, as is our growing debt. Corruption in every level of our government. The so called fight for political correctness threatens to derail our morality, our sense of right and wrong, our faith, and the principles that this country was founded on. The problem is we are seeing these things taken from us one little piece at a time. It is spun in such a way that it is disguised as being for the greater good, so we accept it. I think we are failing to see the long term effects and the bigger picture of this all.
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By: Noah on June 18, 2011
at 8:41 AM
Just plain silly to assume “generational poverty and dependance” flows from a single source be it welfare or whatever
We all have a part in it.
Pablo Neruda :: To the Dead Poor Man
http://radicaljournal.com/poetry/dead_poor_man_pablo_neruda.html
Now it dawns on us we are taking on
all that we never gave him, and now it is late;
he weighs on us, and we cannot take his weight.
How many people does our dead one weigh?
———————————-
The clash at the intersection of race, culture, and class has been part of human society from the beginnings of civilization.
Current neoliberal (libertarian right ) economic policies have their fair share in institutionalizing poverty right alongside anything the liberal left has pushed.
——-
A final summary definition of neoliberalism as a philosophy is this:
Neoliberalism is a philosophy in which the existence and operation of a market are valued in themselves, separately from any previous relationship with the production of goods and services, and without any attempt to justify them in terms of their effect on the production of goods and services; and where the operation of a market or market-like structure is seen as an ethic in itself, capable of acting as a guide for all human action, and substituting for all previously existing ethical beliefs.
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/neoliberalism.html
———————
http://www.globalissues.org/article/39/a-primer-on-neoliberalism
——————-
There is a deep human tendency to assume a couple things which pretty much always bite us in the hiney but we do it anyway- all the time 😦
We tend to assume that folks with differing POVs are an aberration .
We tend to think that given the same information and experience people will all draw the same conclusions-.
And we assume that is a good thing.
I think we need all POVs to keep from falling into the ditch of extremes and to ride out the ups and downs of changing conditions.
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By: alaskapi on June 18, 2011
at 7:49 AM
noah again:
I hear you. We are in a world of shit and I don’t think very many people understand that. I also understand that the past_is_passed but in fairness one has to agree that the economy was in great shape when Clinton left office and that Obama inherited a bucket of very smelly doo-doo that was not his fault. The absolute disaster that a brand-new president was handed was in no way fair and although I strongly oppose Obama’s socialist agenda, I believe you have to say that it is not fair to criticize him for doing the best he knows how to mop up a mess he did not create. Once again I do not agree with his methods and think he has to be replaced but he is NOT trying to destroy this country; Bush – whom I voted for – twice (OK, I’m a slow learner) did just a fine f**king’ job of doing THAT. My suggestion for the ReBiblicans is that they hang their heads in shame, get a mop and help clean this mess up instead of criticizing those who ARE.
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By: PFesser on June 18, 2011
at 7:24 AM
alaskapi –
Super poem. Hits it right on the head.
noah –
It has been really counterproductive for me to call folks liberals and conservatives and then say how they typify the negative things of each. It just pisses people off and – at least in my experience – it isn’t true. Everybody is complex and they resent being pigeonholed.
My experience is that dividing people into the VERY arbitrary liberal and conservative camps does not work at all and it locks you into ways of thinking that will trap you into making some really dumb conclusions. I find some very objectionable things in some folks who self-identify themselves as liberals, and the same in those who claim they are conservative, but when you sit down and actually talk to these people and they have a chance to think about their stances they back away from the crazier stuff. There are a few of course who are just batshit crazy and you can’t talk to them at all; I just pass them by; life is too short.
Just my .05.
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By: PFesser on June 18, 2011
at 7:10 AM
alaskapi,
That was a beautiful poem.
I just began reading a book by R. Buckminster Fuller, “Grunch of Giants”, and his intro delivers the same message – we are in this together.
Mahalo, Namaste, Shalom.
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 17, 2011
at 11:52 PM
. OYB, Liberals are selling our future, and you want to play nice. We are going trillions of dollars into debt, and you want to play nice. We are having our freedom and liberties stripped from us, and you want to play nice. Liberals like JEAN besmirch our troupes openly, and you want to play nice. Obama declares war on another country, without congressional approval, saying the UN gave him all the permission he needed, circumventing the laws of our land, and you want to play nice. Liberals are spending our kids and grand kids money, and you want to play nice. Liberals want to expand government into every aspect of our lives, making us completely dependent upon them, and you want to play nice. Liberals like delurkergurl believe we can tax the wealthy unlimited with no consequences. Liberals like her believe all our money belongs to them and that anything that is given back has to be paid for, and accounted for, and you want to play nice.
Look at what welfare did to our poor, it devastated them, creating generational poverty and dependance. Socialized healthcare is welfare all over again. An excuse for Liberals to take more from us, grow our government bigger and make us more dependent on them than over before. And still you want to play nice. What my dear sir is it going to take for you to wake up and fight?
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By: Noah on June 17, 2011
at 10:12 PM
Noah
Unhinged
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By: nano2 on June 17, 2011
at 8:19 PM
What do you find me at fault with OYB? Maybe where you come from being impotent and not standing up for yourself are admirable qualities. You are more than welcome to defend these folks, as I am welcome calling a spade a spade. You go ahead and place nice, sleep with the enemy and see were it gets you.
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By: Noah on June 17, 2011
at 7:51 PM
I’m about as conservative as it gets and still find it amusing how Noah can be tricked by liberal fools into an irrational froth! Anon 2, poke him again! He’s waiting for it! Over and over you people are making mincemeat of him! Comedy that doesn’t involve Weiner!
Noah, grow up. STF up – you are hideously bad for the our cause! You make conservatives look bad. You make us men look bad. Hell, you make humans look bad. GROW UP and make a POSITIVE impact somewhere!
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By: OYB on June 17, 2011
at 7:23 PM
JUST IN CASE
Just in case the worry heavy world
Should cast a final backward glance
To whimper at what might have been
Before the horror of trumpets
Blown by indifferent angels
Burns and hails and turns to blood
The bone and breath of form
And I am not this
And you are not that
And for a moment, briefly
We all weep the same tears
And forget the too-many names of God
And all the bitter, biting ways
We clip the wings of each other’s prayers
Just in case
I don’t see you tomorrow
My friend, my friend,
I’ll see you again
Where we shall be healed.
I’ll see you again.
————
Martin Williams, inmate poet at Folsom Prison , California
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By: alaskapi on June 17, 2011
at 6:45 PM
Anon2, you proved yourself a Liberal and thanks for doing so so boldly with your lies. Not only did I not brush off Anonymous, I congratulated him on his post and told him I hoped for more posts in the future. Not only that I defended him when people were being a but harsh on him. Either you didn’t do your research and spoke on something you had no business commenting on, or you did and lied to further your own agenda, both typical Liberal tactics.
As for me misrepresenting Liberals, I have a plethora of examples on this board to back up everything I had said. The nice thing about Liberals is they are their own worst enemy. I rarely have to dig far to find proof to back up my beliefs on Liberals. Now if this was not a drive by, and I am sure that it was, why not contribute to the topics presented and lets see where it goes. Knowing in advance you will be held accountable for your claims I am sure will compel you not to participate as 99% of the posters here chose to do. Who would have thought all you had to do to silence a Liberal was to make them accountable for that which they claim to be the facts or truth.
Sadly people like JEAN can never change. Hit and run, sniping, personal attacks, passivise aggressive to the max. A pathetic excuse for a human being. JEAN, you are a coward plain and simple. Fortunately you have made a fool of yourself often enough that your impact is minimal. Should you find a shred of decency within yourself, you really do owe our people in the military an apology from your previous post.
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By: Noah on June 17, 2011
at 4:37 PM
Noah:
Let me give you a clue. Many people who read this blog classify themselves as liberals but I suspect that very few can identify themselves in your whiney and cartoonish interpretation of liberals that are standards in your presentation. Just repeating them over and over again won’t make them so. And when someone like Anonymous tries to engage you, your brush off is predictably repulsive and not helpful. You need not look beyond your own insolence to understand why no one wants to engage you.
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By: Anon2 on June 17, 2011
at 1:31 PM
To Whom it May concern….
O thou grim, mischief-making chiel,
That gars the notes o’ discord squeel,
Till daft mankind aft dance a reel
In gore, a shoe-thick,
Gie a’ the faes o’ Scotland’s weal
A townmond’s toothache!
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By: Craig on June 17, 2011
at 12:46 PM
Jean Googles -er, channels Bobby Burns: “Wouldst some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!”
And notes:
“Only a couple of typical lonely nobodies are chained to their computers 24/7 to talk to each other and whine; somehow thinking that, by attaching themselves to the popular blog of two delightful old ladies, it will make them somebodies. Sort of like hamsters in their respective cages running faster and faster, all day everyday but getting nowhere. Fortunately, all the rest of us have to do is scroll on by and chuckle at the frantic pace of mutual backslapping from their vantage point of provincial tunnel vision with nothing of value or interest to contribute.”
It’s good to see someone with a little personal insight. Congratulations. I didn’t think you understood how you are viewed here. I hope this means we can look forward to some on-topic, concise and positive posts from you. Especially concise.
And to think – all through the auspices of my dead countryman – Bobby Burns. Makes me prood!
Here’s a nice one by Bob. Don’ let it go to your ‘ead. He also wrote a more bawdy version I can share with the group if you like.
F a’ the airts the wind can blaw,
I dearly like the west,
For there the bonnie lassie lives,
The lassie I lo’e best:
There wild woods grow, and rivers row,
And monie a hill between;
But day and night may fancy’s flight
Is ever wi’ my Jean.
I see her in the dewy flowers,
I see her sweet and fair:
I hear her in the tunefu’ birds,
I hear her charm the air:
There’s not a bonnie flower that springs
By fountain, shaw, or green;
There’s not a bonnie bird that sings,
But minds me o’ my Jean.
Cordially,
PFesser
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By: pfesser53 on June 17, 2011
at 5:30 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
It’s summer! Well, not technically but for all practical purposes. We know that there are many of you out there who check in regularly hoping for a new post from Helen. She is probably just busy with family and other projects like most of the rest of us. In case you aren’t interested in wading knee deep through the muck of drivel to find out what many of Helen’s loyal fans have been up to, here’s a little update on some of them.
Let’s see, for openers; high school and college graduations; a National Honors Society recipient, a really, really important wedding anniversary; an upcoming wedding; vacations to destinations all over from Maine to Las Vegas; several serious illnesses in family members; summer activities of kids and grandkid to keep up with; moving plans; businesses, jobs, and professions commanding time and attention; staying abreast of events going on locally and in their states, the country and world; and lots of everyday livin’ to do!
Only a couple of typical lonely nobodies are chained to their computers 24/7 to talk to each other and whine; somehow thinking that, by attaching themselves to the popular blog of two delightful old ladies, it will make them somebodies. Sort of like hamsters in their respective cages running faster and faster, all day everyday but getting nowhere. Fortunately, all the rest of us have to do is scroll on by and chuckle at the frantic pace of mutual backslapping from their vantage point of provincial tunnel vision with nothing of value or interest to contribute.
I am reminded of the Scottish Robert Burns’ poem, “To A Louse”. One of the lines is:
“Wouldst some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!”
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 17, 2011
at 12:49 AM
It is just pettiness inherent to the Liberal way. delurkergurl is famous for chiming in when a cheap shot has a potential of being landed. Sadly nothing that required more than a synapse or two to be fired. I think it is finally sinking in with me that even these jokers don’t believe the shyt they are shoveling. No one except one of the incarnations of Anonymous has had the fortitude or integrity to stand by their own BS and try and defend it. The rest of the dullards just spout talking points and are completely incapable of Independent thought.
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By: Noah on June 16, 2011
at 9:07 PM
You can ask our cunning linguist Jean for help if you get stuck. You shouldn’t need it though.
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By: pfesser53 on June 16, 2011
at 8:24 PM
“Haven’t seen the answer to the question – lose what?”
Ah, what the hell, I’m in a festive mood…
OK – I’m not going to do your homework for you, but I will give you a hint: let’s use the infinitive, “to lose” to make it easy.
Is that always a transitive verb?
Your turn. Wanna play, little girl? If you do, I’m your huckleberry…
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By: pfesser53 on June 16, 2011
at 8:21 PM
“And so your opinion on our Governor PERRY??”
No info on him – he’s new to me. Thoughts?
“Haven’t seen the answer to the question – lose what?
If you have to ask, the answer doesn’t matter.
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By: pfesser53 on June 16, 2011
at 7:37 PM
Craig, James – Godspeed!
Haven’t seen the answer to the question – lose what?
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By: delurkergurl on June 16, 2011
at 7:32 PM
And so your opinion on our Governor PERRY??
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By: Craig on June 16, 2011
at 7:21 PM
Craig –
Sounds like tough times in the Mr. and Mrs. Craig household. Sheesh! I predict locusts next.
Glad to hear from you. I sure know about the illness funk, and my little episode was playtime to what Val is going through. I always wondered as a kid why old people were such sourpusses; now I know: they understand how grim life really is. Thank god for those childhood and young adulthood years of complete ignorance.
re: 2012. I like Romney OK; I don’t think he really believes in magic underwear, and he’s shown that he knows how to balance a checkbook, so that’s pretty good. I think Bachmann is a little too far right for me (about 20 clicks). Don’t know a thing about Pawlenty. Klondike Kardashian is only interested in stuffing thousand dollar bills in her bra, so I don’t think she’s much of a contender (whew!). The Right Reverend Huckleberry ain’t running. Newt has IMHO shown himself devoid of any moral substance whatsoever, in my opinion. Others may disagree.
Pickin’s are pretty thin in the GOP all right. I wish they could get Christie Todd Whitman back in the game or steal Elizabeth Warren and run her. She is so impressive that I don’t think Bo would get 20%, but alas, she is busy.
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By: Pfesser on June 16, 2011
at 11:48 AM
Trying to find the best way to articulate this point. I find it interesting, that all of these so called “loyal” Liberals, when it comes down to brass tacks, cannot stand their ground and defend what it is they and this profess to be true. Of course they will give a myriad of reasons like they are too good to talk with non Liberals, they had to wash their hair and had not the time to respond. But it has been shown over and over that when they are shown how wrong they are with irrefutable proof, or logical argument, they disappear until the subject is dropped. They have the time to attack us, they chatter all day long when it appears there is no one to oppose their rants, but as soon as someone steps up and holds them accountable, this board goes quiet. Cowardly in my humble opinion, and a poor tribute to our hosts. The term fair weather friends comes to mind.
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By: Noah on June 16, 2011
at 11:32 AM
Howdy all
Just recovering from broken left arm..when I fell again and broke left metatarsal.
WE lost our dog Matey ten days ago and are awaiting autopsy.
Val is in a funk….since in last ten days she has begun loosing her hair. Her stamina is also going down..maybe partially to the heat of 100 plus days.
Like the crowd of PUB candidates for POTUS but partial to Bachmann and Romney.
That is all.
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By: Craig on June 16, 2011
at 11:13 AM
Of all the things you could have responded to you chose that Anonymous? Really? And something with such an obvious answer. Maybe the bar has been raised a little to high here.
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By: Noah on June 16, 2011
at 8:03 AM
“Then you lose.”
Lose what?
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By: Anonymous on June 16, 2011
at 7:27 AM
“but I do think you are just going to keep posting until we all go away.”
You shouldn’t do that. Then you lose.
“I’d much rather read Helen. She is not only correct in her posts…”
Whoever the writer is, he/she is certainly bright, no getting around that. But always “correct?” Only if you are so naive that you actually believe an argument has only one side.
“but she is a far wittier writer”
Possibly true but irrelevant, since “she” – whoever that is – only posts about once every month at the most, up to as much as every three or more. 95% of the “action” on the blog comes from commenters. It reminds me of what my roomie said about god: if He exists or doesn’t, it doesn’t matter. He doesn’t get involved in human affairs.
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By: PFesser on June 16, 2011
at 5:20 AM
Nice personal opinion piece, thanks Shash.
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By: Noah on June 15, 2011
at 7:55 PM
Noah, I don’t think you do a good job of debunking myths, but I do think you are just going to keep posting until we all go away. I’d much rather read Helen. She is not only correct in her posts but she is a far wittier writer. And that’s what I stop by to read.
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By: Shash on June 15, 2011
at 7:34 PM
I find it interesting when I debunk their arguments they scatter to the 4 winds and have nothing else to say. Where is the integrity?
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By: Noah on June 15, 2011
at 3:42 PM
Anybody seen JuneauJoe?
C’mon now, don’t run away just ‘cus I out-perved you at your own game! It was really fun seeing you and Noah discuss the fine points…
I’m your huckleberry…
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By: PFesser on June 15, 2011
at 2:42 PM
Noah –
Stop it. Stop it right now. Of all the nerve – using logic!
What is that old quote about debt? “That which is good policy for a family can scarce be bad for a nation?” something like that…
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By: PFesser on June 15, 2011
at 11:37 AM
Do these people think that if they buy milk half price on sale this week, it should remain on sale forever? When the regular retail price is restored after the sale is over, do they rage about milk prices doubling? Do they understand that the retailer lost revenue on that milk so there was a cost to running that sale?
I like this example. You see Anonymous , that milk, it belongs to the store. They chose to put it on sale. They chose how long to run their sale. They didn’t have someone come in and decide for them they were going to sell the milk at a lower price.
Do they understand that if they sold the goods at a loss forever, the business would fall into debt?
You say going into debt like it is a bad thing? Wait, it is a bad thing? So if it is bad for this company to put itself into debt, why is it ok for us to introduce spending of over a trillion dollars that we have not paid for, for services we are getting today? Or do we live by one set of rules, and our government another set?
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By: Noah on June 15, 2011
at 10:41 AM
Anonymous, no need to explain yourself. I clearly understand the Liberal mindset on this. Everything we have belongs to our benevolent government, and we should be thankful for anything that decide to give back to us. After all, we can’t live without them in our lives and we need them to spend our money for us because they know what we need better than we do, and we know they can run their fiscal house better than we can, right?
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By: Noah on June 15, 2011
at 10:35 AM
Some specific people got a temporary tax break for a pre-defined period of time. When that time was up, they threw a tantrum about “tax increases” and got their way. They’ll do it again when this temporary tax cut expires.
Do these people think that if they buy milk half price on sale this week, it should remain on sale forever? When the regular retail price is restored after the sale is over, do they rage about milk prices doubling? Do they understand that the retailer lost revenue on that milk so there was a cost to running that sale? Do they understand that if they sold the goods at a loss forever, the business would fall into debt?
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By: Anonymous on June 15, 2011
at 9:26 AM
PFesser-
LOL- if you ask my Aleut side of the family, they would say they were always here but it’s likely it’s only 9000 years 🙂
Folks met at teachers college in the west. Dad was Navy in WWII and didn’t return to ancestral home area afterwards. Ma was determined to go to college from the time she was quite young and ran right up and over family , educators, et al in her tiny Alaskan hometown to do that.
Yes, the whole village thing here is really tough- on so many fronts that it is difficult to pull threads out to try to sort out what may or may not help or hinder…
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By: alaskapi on June 15, 2011
at 8:58 AM
UAW-
“While nonresident troops aren’t counted for state legislative districts, they’re federally required to be included in congressional districts.
Historically in Hawaii, they’ve been omitted because of concerns that their large numbers would negate representation from full-time residents who can vote.”
It doesn’t appear they are violating federal law in terms of representation of /for Hawaii in Congress, rather that they have traditionally ignored them as non-residents in counts for apportioning state representation.
Jean has every right to be concerned about increased Republican representation in her state business but that is a different thing than what struck me.
Here in Alaska we changed from a Legislature run redistricting Board to an appointed board and adjusted for for military non-residents.
p128,
Click to access citizens_guide.pdf
This section assigns authority for redistricting to a redistricting board, and it directs the board to use federal census figures for its work. Federal law generally prohibits states from using any other population data, such as the results of a state census or the number of registered voters. Prior to 1990 it was the practice in Alaska to adjust the federal census figure by removing the estimated number of non-resident military personnel in the state. The original constitutional provisions specified that redistricting was to be based on the “civilian” population. No such adjustment to the population base was made for the purposes of redistricting after the 1990 or 2000 census. The language of this section may now prevent any such adjustment.
what this has done here is add to the problems of representation of rural Alaska (which is most of the state), post Baker v Carr, by creating districts in which large numbers of of non-resident military folks are counted for apportionment -we have lost seats all over the state or ended up with districts larger than many states down south simply because of numbers of stationed military folks -who can’t vote in local /state elections anyway.
the Dem/Rep thing doesn’t mean a whole lot here , at least in the way it does so many other places. What does matter is that representation in state and local affairs has changed dramatically because of this.
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By: alaskapi on June 15, 2011
at 8:41 AM
uawtradesman I like that thanks
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By: Noah on June 15, 2011
at 8:35 AM
alaskapi –
Interesting about your family. How did your ancestors end up in alaska?
I have a friend, an Alaska blogger, who has educated me about the “villages.” It sounds like some of those folks really have a tough go of it.
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By: PFesser on June 15, 2011
at 8:22 AM
Noah……
THE IRS=THEIRS
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By: uawtradesman on June 15, 2011
at 7:39 AM
Alaskapi
I went back to read Jean’s post and it seems that her big problem is that a Republican might get elected…….I wanted to know how that is different that counting all the illegals in California (and how many want to give them the vote) Isn’t California getting an extra seat because of the population increase and the chance of it being conservative is ?
After reading your link WHY is Hawaii (and Kansas)allowed to violate federal law?
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By: uawtradesman on June 15, 2011
at 7:07 AM
PFesser…
It says”I voted Rebublican,The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth”
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By: uawtradesman on June 15, 2011
at 6:45 AM
Yeah. It does.
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By: Anonymous on June 15, 2011
at 5:21 AM
paying for the expense of continuing to renew the intentionally-temporary tax cuts for the upper class.
Again, All your money belongs to the Liberal government. anything you are “allowed” to keep has to be paid and accounted for. I belong to the school of thought that if I earn it it is my money. Guess that makes me a greed jjerk.
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By: Noah on June 14, 2011
at 7:41 PM
I heard what you meant, Alaskapi, and valued your comment.
Did you hear that the massive GOP Cuts To Food Aid For Seniors And Food Banks Equals One Day Of Bush Tax Cuts For Millionaires? At this rate we could sacrifice everyone and everything and still come up short paying for the expense of continuing to renew the intentionally-temporary tax cuts for the upper class.
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By: delurkergurl on June 14, 2011
at 7:21 PM
UAW- did you go read the article I referenced?
I asked if folks thought I was reading it correctly?
“Even though nonresidents can’t vote, their inclusion likely would have significant implications for state politics in Hawaii. ”
“If out-of-state military are counted, Republicans could benefit conservative-leaning districts surrounding bases may be split, leading to voters in the area choosing two representatives instead of one. ‘
Whether it is nonresident military in Hawaii or whatever is going on in CA the gain for being able to count the folks seems to be for the residents in those districts who CAN vote-no one else.
Not the non resident, not other districts.
I don’t get your remark about not-ok-for-you-but-ok-for-us. I’m not making a lib v cons argument here.
Who’s you and us?
————–
PFesser- I am not forgetting the poor . I assume they all fit in one of the designations -left, right, in between or beyond.
“ALL of us, liberal, conservative, and all points between or beyond share in culpability and responsibilty in questions surrounding poverty.”
My father’s people are Kentucky dirt farmer stock and many are as poor as you can get.
My mother’s people are Aleut and many are struggling as hard as anyone does .
My father is an old fashioned conservative, some of his relatives are tea partiers, some flaming liberals. Same on the other side-except it is ma who is the flaming liberal and it cuts across economic lines.The poor are not a monolithic homogeneous group-politicallyor any other way.
I know plenty of poor folks, including my folks, who have done quite well, plenty who have foundered. It seems to have more to do with temperament, opportunity or the lack of it, and individual response to terms of perception of opportunity as to how folks do.There’s a wonderful lil book called Aleuts in Transition that looks at adaptive behaviors in 2 seperate circumstances. Kinda of hard to find but still out there.
I see a couple typos here but new WP comment window function is driving me bats so I’ll just apologize and leave em.
So- I’m including anyone and everyone. The issues surrounding poverty in this country are human issues.
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By: alaskapi on June 14, 2011
at 7:14 PM
I think this short video makes a very excellent point in Palin and Obama.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/have-the-media-treated-palin-and-obama-equally/
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By: Noah on June 14, 2011
at 12:50 PM
So much for a transparent government.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jun/13/obama-administration-cut-access-federal-websites/#.TfZwPtdyH8Y;facebook
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By: Noah on June 14, 2011
at 12:42 PM
Don’t think I like where this is going either.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/13/fbis-new-rules-to-give-agents-more-leeway-on-surveillance/?test=latestnews
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By: Noah on June 14, 2011
at 12:41 PM
Don’t think I like where this is going.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=310877
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By: Noah on June 14, 2011
at 12:35 PM
UAW tradesman –
I like your avatar, but I can’t read the text. What does it say?
For the record, I always thought Monica was hot and the ol’ Horndog had good taste.
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By: PFesser on June 14, 2011
at 11:34 AM
Alaskapi
are you also saying that the illegal immigrants should not be counted and used for redistricting……like in California…….or is this the ol’ double standard again (It’s OK for us to do it but not you)
John Handcock
or is it John cock-in hand…..let up on the grip……….your shutting off the blood to your brain……
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By: uawtradesman on June 14, 2011
at 9:51 AM
This is a great video. I think it highlights the faults with affirmative action. I think for a period of time affirmative action had a place and it was necessary to interject people into places where they might not have been able to get to on their own to introduce to ignorant people that we are all indeed equal and that race should not play a role in determining if someone should be chosen for a job, and it has done that. Now we need to get back to performance based hiring for everything.
We hurt ourselves by using race as a reason to hire someone. By choosing less qualified people we are less profitable and less productive. Logically it makes little sense as well. If it is wrong to not pick someone due to race it should be equally wrong to pick them because of their race. It was a necessary evil at the time, but I believe it is an idea that needs to be put to laid to rest.
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By: Noah on June 14, 2011
at 9:49 AM
Video on the possible application of affirmative action to college basketball.
hmmm……
HT to 800lbgorilla@rutherford’s blog.
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By: PFesser on June 14, 2011
at 9:30 AM
“ALL of us, liberal, conservative, and all points between or beyond share in culpability and responsibilty in questions surrounding poverty.”
alaskapi – I would gently suggest that perhaps you have left out one very important group – the impoverished themselves. Of course that leaves one open to the charge of “blaming the victim” but also it might be interpreted as “taking on at least some responsibility for one’s own situation.”
I personally know several – no I would say many – people from the heads of the hollers in WV who have done well for themselves, having come from very poor families. How can their prosperity be attributed to personal responsibility and ambition but then said (or implied) that poverty has NO relationship to lack of same – it is the fault of “all of us” – to use your phraseology?
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By: PFesser on June 14, 2011
at 9:10 AM
“TTTTHAT’S ALL FOLKS!!” Good bye for now..
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By: James on June 14, 2011
at 9:07 AM
What Hawaii is looking at IS actually somewhat peculiar.
It appears the service members would still be excluded from voting as residents but that districts they reside in would be allowed to count them as residents for numbers used to add or subtract representatives based on census numbers. Am I reading this correctly that an area could gain (or lose ) a rep based on large numbers of residents who cannot vote? If so, what do the non-residents gain excepting that their allowed-to-vote neighbors get more reps?
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections/news/local-news/troops-could-cross-state-lines.html
————-
ALL of us, liberal, conservative, and all points between or beyond share in culpability and responsibilty in questions surrounding poverty.
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By: alaskapi on June 14, 2011
at 8:47 AM
I agree with Noah about Jean’s comments. As a service man who voted only once per election, I would have been in trouble had I voted twice or neglected to pay my state taxes. “…Young and vulnerable people…” is an insult to our troops.
John Handcock did give us good satire. Maybe Jean was indulging in her own brand of satire and wasn’t really insulting anyone.. “Modest Proposal!” I like that.
Noah, liberalism, political correctness or whatever you choose to call it is a problem. I agree with you, but I think something worse outside of the schools is at fault too.
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By: James on June 13, 2011
at 9:52 PM
John Handcock . . . hysterically good satire! Kind of like the 21st century’s version of Jonathan Swift’s A Modest Proposal!
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 13, 2011
at 8:41 PM
What’s worse, the Carl Rove types must be rubbing their hands together in glee at the prospects of dual voter registration in different states. It is not a stretch to see how some young and vulnerable people could be persuaded, “Yeah, sure, you can vote here and vote absentee in your home state too!”
Seriously Jean wake the hell up. We are a nation of laws. It is against the law to vote twice, be you a Liberal, a Conservative, or a fear monger like yourself. To insinuate the Republicans would purposefully break the law and rig an election I thought was beneath even someone as morally disturbed as yourself. You my dear are a true piece of shyt.
James. The problem with our education system like many other things is the disease called Liberalism. The same Liberalism that wants to remove God from the pledge. The same Liberalism that wants scoreless sports so our poor fragile children don’t get hurt feelings if they lose a game, never mind that it builds character. Liberals need our kids to be scared of everything so they can be dependent on them to take care of their every need and to keep voting them into power. Like a crack dealer on the street, Liberals use fear, hate, welfare, socialized healthcare and the like to keep themselves as their invaluable savior. Get them dependent on us for all their needs and they will never get rid of us. Give me 10 Hitlers in uniform any day, at least then my enemy has the balls to show himself for who and what he is. Liberals walk and live among us, dressed in plain cloths promising you the world while selling your future down the river, a terrorist by any other name.
We need to take back our schools from these villains, get back to a common sense approach and screw this political correctness, and do whats best for our kids.
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By: Noah on June 13, 2011
at 6:53 PM
Noah, I would do the same as you and have done with our farm business. Besides spending more money to hire a better quality of teacher, I would reduce the amount of paper work which administrators impose on them. I would fund research to learn why a few students don’t follow the normal pattern. If their stories are similar teachers would be able to help such students more numerous.
I regard our education problem as I do the war on drugs. Until the culture changes, the condition will remain.
Thomas Friedman described how Chinese and Indian youth treat Bill Gates like a rock star and how eager they are to learn. What do they have that we don’t?
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By: James on June 13, 2011
at 6:09 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Listen up folks! This is important for 2012. Let’s put aside our preoccupation with the antics of Sarah Palin and Anthony Weiner for the moment. Sistah lori, Sistah alaskapi, Sistah Elsie and others interested, I hope you will get on this issue if it’s applicable in your states. Our local newspaper, Sunday, June12 “The Garden Island” has a front-page article written by Mark Niesse, Associated Press, entitled, “Troops could skew Hawai’i political lines”.
It has to do with revisiting the results of the last census and reapportionment. I’m sure all of you know that by Constitutional mandates, voting districts are based on representation of population for both State and National legislative bodies. The every 10-year census is a head count, not of voter registration or eligibility. The census counts non-residents such as the military and their families and students whose permanent homes are elsewhere.
Only Kansas and Hawaii exclude non-residents when shaping districts. Now the Hawaii Reapportionment Commission is considering including them. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see what this could mean, especially concerning the military, which is largely conservative in its thinking. That demographic generally votes a straight Republican ticket. There could be plenty of gerrymandering going on without the public taking notice of it.
What’s worse, the Carl Rove types must be rubbing their hands together in glee at the prospects of dual voter registration in different states. It is not a stretch to see how some young and vulnerable people could be persuaded, “Yeah, sure, you can vote here and vote absentee in your home state too!”
The greatest concentration of military is of course on Oahu with Pearl Harbor and numerous army and marine bases scattered all over the island. There are large numbers of military families in surrounding areas. A little gerrymandering here, a little gerrymandering there, and both the State Senate and House as well as the U. S. House of Representatives could easily tip conservative in 2012.
This does not really reflect the total population of our island State however. The Big Island, proportionally, has the largest increase in population according to the census, with very little military representation. Why the Big Island has had such an increase mystifies me. Much of it is flat, barren land covered with black lava rock with very little vegetation. Nary a bird nor insect to be seen for miles. The air quality is poor and unhealthy. The active volcano has been erupting there for over 20 years. It spews out “vog” a combination of ash and gasses, one of which, sulphur dioxide, is a deadly toxin in high concentrations. When the prevailing trade winds die down, the whole island can be blanketed with “vog” and it occasionally drifts up the entire Hawaiian chain as it is being dissipated. Even in small amounts, you can feel it burning your eyes and mucous membranes, 500 miles NW on our island.
Anyway, you can read more details on the reapportionment thingy by pulling up the Garden Island newspaper article. Please check it out in your home states too.
Aloha! :-)Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 13, 2011
at 5:10 PM
John Handcock, sounds like that was penned by an angry black Liberal Muslim,
James, I guess I take a upper management point of view to fixing the “how” part of our education system. When I want to make a change in my business, I have a very good idea of what I want my end results to be. But when it comes to what and how to implement change, I go to the person who does said job and ask them what they think. In the case of education I again would give them a 50% pay raise, attract a better quality of teacher, then set to them the task of finding a better way to run things. As 75% of their pay is dependent upon performance I would consider them to be sufficiently motivated to get the job done in a timely manner.
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By: Noah on June 13, 2011
at 3:31 PM
Stonekettle.com has offered to post on the Internet (I prefer a quill pen) my new Consititution for the GOP/Conservatives who, I understand, wish to create a Liberal Free Zone country somewhere in what is presently known as United States of America.
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By: John Handcock on June 13, 2011
at 3:11 PM
I just read your post, Poolman. My cousin said what you said. They are just things. This flood doesn’t compare to her husband and son’s dying. You’re right. This was one of the last things on our minds. The last flood for us was in 1954, We don’t have flood insurance because we have never needed it.
Your “supernatural” comment strikes a note. I don’t know that I believe all of that stuff, but strange things have happened around me over the years. When we lived in England, my wife and I watched a coffee cup tip itself over.
The Corps of Engineers rep told me it will really get interesting here in four or five days. I reported .70 inch of rain to the weather service this morning, and the meteorologist told me not to wait too long. “We don’t want to send a helicopter after you.”
My aunt gave me her collection of the first forty years of Life Magazine and also Saturday Evening Post. We have been moving them out of the basement. A 1952 Saturday Evening Post article was titled “Who Blundered in Iran?” Nothing has changed has it?
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By: James on June 13, 2011
at 1:46 PM
I heard that too. It is funny, but I doubt if Margaret Thatcher actually said it. According to the Daily Telegraph, Lady Thatcher is often unable to remember where she is or that her husband died.
Yes, the Brits do have a way with words, but Margaret has lost her way.
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By: James on June 13, 2011
at 12:05 PM
This is a little off topic, but it gave me such a horselaugh this morning that I had to share it. From The Telegraph:
re: Palin wants to meet Margaret Thatcher
“When the Governor told reporters that she would like to meet the Prime Minister during her world tour next month, a Thatcher aide reportedly said, “Lady Thatcher will not be seeing Sarah Palin. That would be belittling for Margaret. Sarah Palin is nuts.”
Ah, the Brits have such a way with words.
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By: Pfesser on June 13, 2011
at 10:24 AM
I know I am citing exceptions to the rule, but the exceptions tell us something. Why do a few fight to improve their lots when most are overwhelmed?
Our daughter is a therapist for mostly teenagers forced to see her as a condition of their probation or incarcaration status. They come from disfunctional families and several have been murder victims or killers. Our daughter’s office has called the police for security problems two or three times.
Even with such conditions, a few exceptions fight their circumstances. Why? We need to know and learn if there is a pattern.
What you wrote Noah and Alaskapi , supports my point that tampering with our educational structure will not change much until we do something about the realty and culture of poverty. John Edwards once said the United States is two nations, and though he is a cad, he is right. We have tried to fix the problem since before LBJ’s War on Poverty and nothing has worked. We need another approach.
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By: James on June 13, 2011
at 9:20 AM
Noah-
Yes, it is a very real problem.
——————————–
QUICK FACTS REGARDING KIDS LIVING IN POVERTY & HUNGER
Children who grow up in families below 185% of the federal poverty level and who live in hungry and/or food insecure homes suffer from two to four times as many health problems as their counterparts who do not experience hunger.
Malnutrition-related ailments afflicting these children included unwanted weight loss, fatigue,
headaches, irritability, inability to concentrate, and frequent colds.
Children between the ages of 5 and 7, living in food insecure households have nearly 3-4
times the odds of stunted growth.
http://www.foodbankofscm.org/ProgramsAndServices/FoodPrograms.aspx
——————————–
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By: alaskapi on June 13, 2011
at 7:12 AM
I like north should read I live north
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By: Noah on June 13, 2011
at 12:35 AM
James I see it everyday in the inner-city. Poverty has a major impact. The examples you are sighting are the exception to the rule, not the norm. The kids in these situation are spending so much of their time just trying to survive, make money, and find a second meal for the day that school is lucky to hit their top 5 in their priority list. I like north of one of the most prosperous cities in Michigan. Without a doubt this city has done better through these economic times than almost any other city in our state. Despite that, one of the churches I work with, works with the school to identify kids who are not getting enough to eat. This one church makes upwords of 250 brown bag dinners everyday. This puts these kids at a significant disadvantage.
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By: Noah on June 13, 2011
at 12:29 AM
Jsri, I agree, poverty makes it tough for a teacher to motivate students, but it can be done. A teacher will only be the spark to convince a student to motivate him/herself.
Our son’s class survived the loss of homes, parental deaths, and sudden poverty during the farm depression. They decided as a class that education was their way out and all would make it or none would. They invented their own No Child Left Behind program and looked after each other. They became the most successful class in twenty years.
A few years ago, ABC reported on a homeless girl who put herself through high school and earned a scholarship to an ivy league university.
My wife has also carried food and snacks for students who are hungry. She rummages through dumpsters at the end of school in search of discarded jackets, etc. Then, she repairs and cleans them for high school students who can’t afford a coat. She has also carried tension balls to pass out to stressed out students. If they are so inclined, they can throw them against the wall after class.
Yes, it is difficult to motivate students, poor or rich, but not impossible. Your wife probably has many success stories of lives she helped change.
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By: James on June 12, 2011
at 8:11 PM
I minimized the page, so I don’t know what if anything has been written today. A flock of Canadian geese seems to have moved into one of our bean fields. Frogs are happy too.
The Drudge Report has a link to Yahoo! News, “Midwesterners brace for new Missouri River flooding.” No one probably cares enough to check, but it is rare that the dateline is from a town near our home. My wife gets her hair done in Blair, Ne.
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By: James on June 12, 2011
at 7:43 PM
James:
Sorry James. But poverty does have an effect. It is pretty tough for any teacher to motivate a kid in school who may be suffering hunger pains. My wife used to carry peanut bars or something similar in her pockets that she doled out when needed. They were a regular item on our weekly shopping lists.
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By: jsri on June 12, 2011
at 3:35 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
This is a proud grandma speaking. Our grandson in CA is 16, (17 in Dec.) and just finished his sophomore year in high school. We just found out he was inducted into the National Honor Society’s as a result of the National Association of Secondary School Principles. It is based on “Scholarship, Service, Leadership and Character”. (They just told us on the phone so I may have garbled what it is officially all about, but we think it is HUGE!)
He is 6’ 2” with a beautiful baritone voice. Last year he was the “Cowardly Lion” in the school’s musical production of “The Wiz”. We saw the DVD. Outstanding! In person, he is rather reticent but up on stage singing and acting, he is a terrible ham! This year a couple of weeks ago he was Schroder in their musical production of “You’re a Good Man, Charlie Brown”. We await this DVD!
We are bustin’ with pride! He’s a fun kid.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 12, 2011
at 2:38 PM
Thanks everyone for your encouragement. Much of our farm land is now under water, and the lake west of our house is expanding thanks to the rising water table. 160 acres near our home remain dry. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the lake which which we dug to revive a spring did us in?
I already described how the valley society is devolving as large pieces of it depopulate. Several areas have no electricity or mail delivery, and yet we hear a few hold outs remain in those places.
The interstate and county highway ten miles north of us will soon go under, though the DOT is trying to keep the interstate open with boards and sand bags. My wife and I will drive up to buy some things while we still can.
We are still sorting and moving things.
The Corps of Engineers tell us that were it not for the levies and flood control projects of the past half century, the flood would already reach from hill to hill, and that would be 20 miles in wide parts of the valley.
I thought it was odd that though the rate of increased water flow is stable until Thursday when it will reach the current projected maximum rate, the water has been spreading horizontally more rapidly. I imagine the main river to be a mound that gravity will smooth and flatten with time. The maximum rate will probably last a month or two.
A history professor told us about the Perene Thesis, which holds that the western Roman Empire did not succumb to barbarians in one fell swoop. Enclaves of the old civilization survived for generations. I see that happening here. Life goes on in dryer places, though the preocupation with sump pumps and sand bags competes with road maps. The town which will soon be cut off from us seems normal enough, but it is shrinking into itself as its trade area steadily grows smaller. I am curious to see what will happen if this continues through January as the corps projections say,
Omaha hosts the College World Series next week, and officials are worried about the impact of a couple of heavy thunderstorms. The water will have no where to go. They are installing many pumps. If a big storm hits us, we will have to leave quickly.
My wife wants to leave now. I want to wait.
I don’t care what anyone believes about religion as long as it doesn’t affect me. Humans have created their own gods, because religion is built into us. Worshiping God has survival value. I believe in God, but I can’t imagine what it is.
It doesn’t matter if the school has ten students or thousands. Wealth and poverty matter less than motivation. It is a teacher’s job to convince students they either need the information to benefit themselves, or lessons are intrinsically interesting. For example schools used Billy Joel’s “We didn’t Start the Fire ” as an instructional aid. A video of Dandy Warhols “Sleep 2000-Thirteen Tales From urban bohemia” posted by rayoflightcanada provides a good three minute history of the Middle East from the Balifor Declaration to Obama’s first conference in the region. Music can help memory and comprehension.
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By: James on June 12, 2011
at 8:23 AM
Helen: I am so sorry for your loss. Your posts have been such a pleasure for me and I was really starting to worry when we hadn’t heard from you. Be well and thanks for speaking the truth!
Amy
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By: Amy on June 12, 2011
at 7:57 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Sistahs Raji, alaskapi, mageen and bruddah Poolman, I think we are on the same page about many aspects of religion/spirituality and education. It really boils down to semantics. If anyone were to ask me what my religious preference is at this stage of my life, I would say I am a Casuist. I simply do not know.
I feel that Decarte and Blondell are to philosophy what Newton and Einstein are to science. If you are interested in a hugely esoteric book on said subject, try “Maurice Blondell, A Philosopher’s Life” by Oliva Blanchette. I warn you, it is extremely heavy reading but worthwhile in the long run. I’ve been plowing my way through it, digesting a few pages at a time for six months. He dissects the differences between the “supernatural” or more formally, “metaphysics” (with its negative connotations of magic and superstition) and “catholic spirituality” (with a lower case “c” in the Greek sense of the word meaning “universal”).
On a personal note, most of my adult life, I have participated in various organizations ranging from Community Concert Associations to the League of Women Voters. Once I was involved in a face-to-face discussion regarding elementary school curricula and teacher qualification. It was generally agreed that certification is important although a string of degrees behind any teacher’s name does not automatically confer teaching competence. If a teacher has the ability to grab and sustain the classes’ attention on the subject matter, then discipline usually is not a major problem with the exception of an occasional chronically disruptive student.
In that discussion was the principal of a private religious school, in a position of authority to set the tone for the entire school, students and teachers alike. The principal often became upset and even quite angry when some questions were raised and at one point blurted out, “Well, it really doesn’t matter whether the students can read or write as long as their souls are saved!”
That was a conversation stopper if there ever was one.
This is a story my mom used to love to tell on me, early on to embarrass me, but now I appreciate the humor of it. We had a huge family bible about the size of Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary with full-page color picture illustrations. One time as a pre-schooler I had some little friends over and was entertaining them by showing them the pictures. I said, in all seriousness, (a cherub), “This is the Baby Jesus doing a tap dance”, then, turning the page, (the Galilee Sea), “This one is the Nederland Lake.”
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 11, 2011
at 9:17 PM
Mageen –
You are the kind of teacher I remember so fondly from my grade school days. They never made much money, but they had control over their environments. They spent their days teaching, not filling out “lesson plans.” They did not have to spend every minute wondering if they were fulfilling “Title _____ (fill in the blank) requirements. They carried themselves with dignity and spoke grammatically. They were well-respected because they deserved it. The very few of them left are completely demoralized trying to teach in this current climate. I feel truly sorry for them; they know exactly what the children need but they are not allowed to do it.
My cousin Edna was legendary; she just died last fall at 96, and her funeral procession was a mile long. I can name at least ten kids my age who she called back into the “cloak room” while other children did their lessons at their desks, only to come out with a new pair of shoes – purchased on Edna’s meagre salary.
She tried substitute teaching after she retired. She gave it up. “Jim,” she said, “I can’t teach now. I *touch* my kids, and you can’t do that these days. When they are good I hug ’em and when they are bad I whip ’em.” Now you go to jail for doing either one. Honest to God I don’t know what’s going to become of these young’uns.”
I don’t know if I mentioned it but we have a very active oncology service at my hospital. Let me know if I can be of any service to you or your husband.
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By: Pfesser on June 11, 2011
at 5:56 PM
Mageen, I’m glad to hear your husband is doing a little better. I’ll always make it a priority to donate what I can for researching less toxic treatments for chemotherapy. I hope it is doing the job and that you guys get to enjoy more happy years together.
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By: delurkergurl on June 11, 2011
at 5:34 PM
Pfesser – read your June 9th contribution – doing some unscrambling here of schedules etc. so my opportunities to read everything is rather limited – I started out teaching school and i was rated very highly by various school “inspectors” and superintendents. Could not continue on as my parents were still housing me and buying my clothes due to the low pay. One example: I taught for a bit in a highly touted and respected school system that paid the teachers bupkis but they did not object inasmuch as they were all married to highly paid husbands in professions. It is actually humbling for me to know as the years passed that the majority of the students I taughte turned out quite fine ina ll respects. Over time I discovered that some of the best paid teachers were in upstate New York in the Rochester area where they could actually afford to buy their own home if they were a single woman. I also heard of an elementary school principal in Philly who turned her failed school around by addressing the myriad of needs of her impoverished student body. Not just free breakfast and lunch but donated washers and dryers to launder their clothes, availability of clean donated clothing, inspiring school maintenance to actually perform their jobs by getting down on her knees and scrubbing floors herself. Home visits were attempted with mixed results. A percentage of the parents were the result of bad schooling for generations (segregation and poverty which forced kids to leave school too young in order to find menial work). She’s a hero in my book! And incidentally, I reread your opening contribution to this blog. In my own history it wasn’t Black Jack Pershing. It was the British army in the middle east who threatened to bury uncooperative types in a fresh pigskin so they would never see paradise. I believe it actually worked for awhile.
Once again thanks to you and some of the other folks on the front porch for your support while my husband fights his way through Stage IV cancer. He had a rough patch but is doing better now. Two more rounds of chemo to go, rounds that were not expected.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 11, 2011
at 4:29 PM
Poo. First Amendment, not second.
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By: Pfesser on June 11, 2011
at 4:08 PM
alaskapi –
Agreed. I know and work with many deeply religious people every day and respect them tremendously – my wife and I are even sort of honorary members of a local Pentecostal church, and work together on charity projects every Christmas. Even though they are aware of my feelings, they are, that magic word: tolerant.
Tex and I had a similar discussion on Rutherford’s blog. I rather like Jefferson’s approach – let me see if I can find it….here it is:
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
So, I don’t have any intention of forcing – or ESPECIALLY asking my government to force – anyone to believe – or not believe – in anything. But along the same vein, I have also adopted Hitchens’ and Dawkins’ habit of not pretending to show deference or respect to something I find silly – or in some cases, vile. That is MY right under the Second Amendment. Of course those who feel the other way have the perfect right to tell me to go to hell – which Tex has done. We are still cordial – I would even say friends – but we find each other’s positions unpalatable and say so. That’s exactly how our system is supposed to work.
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By: Pfesser on June 11, 2011
at 4:04 PM
Raji –
Instead of FURTHER dissembling, just say “It’s none of your business and I don’t want to discuss it.” It’s a lot more honest.
Well, Pfesser, if that is the kind of language you prefer, then consider it said.
Peace 😉
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By: Raji on June 11, 2011
at 3:45 PM
PFesser- I was quite aware you were not putting forth Descartes’ religious views but think context of the man’s work and thought are worth commenting on.
My own rejection of religion for myself has not resulted in rejecting other people’s acceptance of religion because the person who granted me the freedom to question everything thoroughly which led to my ultimate rather than inevitable rejection of religion, my father, is a deeply religious person, a good and decent man. A man who taught math and science to generations of young people and inspired so many to go on to jobs and activities math and science based.
He was comfortable in the beauty and rightness science brought to what he saw as the experience of the God-given world.
I disagree with him about that but will respect his acceptance of my differences by respecting others in their differences with me.
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By: alaskapi on June 11, 2011
at 1:20 PM
alaskapi –
I wasn’t putting forth any discussion of Descartes’ religious beliefs, just that my grade school principal’s lecture on Descartes is what started me down the road to questioning everything, including my own beliefs – and that is what inevitably led me to reject religion.
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By: Pfesser on June 11, 2011
at 12:39 PM
Raji –
Instead of FURTHER dissembling, just say “It’s none of your business and I don’t want to discuss it.” It’s a lot more honest.
Onward.
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By: Pfesser on June 11, 2011
at 12:35 PM
oh crud- having a bit of a go with new WP commenting box
Desacartes avowed a belief in God.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes-epistemology/#6.1
But he also strongly agitated for an opening of inquiry into what was then off limits by cultural religious convention.
Not so different than Plato’s Socrates’ defense in the Apologia in many ways but certainly more effective in convincing folks in his own time.
http://eo.ucar.edu/rainbows/
Consider Descartes’ description of the phenomena which result in a rainbow from 1637 with the generalized notion about not messing about in God’s territory of the time…
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By: alaskapi on June 11, 2011
at 11:28 AM
PFesser-
as an atheist (without God) I tend toward your views but poor old Descartes was a man of his time , engaged in scientific questioning, intent upon developing a rationale for inquiry which would not put him at odds with the church.
I hunted around but did not find a long ago quip by a physicist who swept away a question about Descartes’ so-called epistemological mind-body split with something on the order of Descartes-was-engaged-in-a-turf-war-with-the-church-over-whether-he-could-inquire-in-matters-reserved-for-God.
Desacartes avowed a belief in God.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes-epistemology/#6.1
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By: alaskapi on June 11, 2011
at 11:15 AM
Pfesser
Dissembling: creation or adoption of a false appearance so as to elicit a false impression on the part of somebody else
Crawfishing: to go fishing for Crawdads (Southern term for crayfish)
Raised in the South and never heard that crawfishing meant to dissemble.
I do believe I did not answer WHY I think the “supernatural” exists just that I do! As to WHY, well Sir, I consider that information personal and by not revealing my experiences on a blog I do not consider myself dissembling. I apologize if I have given you reason to think I was creating a false appearance to elicit a false impression.
I did state that I am not a believer in organized religion for the very reasons that you have related on June 11 @7:37 AM.
I had a very interesting professor in college, Thomas Altizer, who rocked the South when he posed his startling question: “Is God Dead?” You might find his works interesting and his memoir, Living the Death of God. We have already discussed his work before on M&H. He was on the cover of Time magazine in 1966.
I wasn’t aware we were playing ball. You used the term, supernatural. I used the term The Creator. It’s just semantics.
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By: Raji on June 11, 2011
at 10:53 AM
Raji –
I think you are crawfishing (a Southern term for dissembling) in your answer concerning why you think the supernatural exists, but I will go first if you promise to give a real answer.
When I was in grade school our principal came in one day and talked about Descartes. He said that he had decided everything he had learned was suspect and not founded on any provable bases (he was talking about the Scientific Method, but of course that was not invented yet). So he set about developing his own tool set upon which he could depend – and of course his first problem was to decide if his own existence was real, hence cogito ergo sum. (as my racing buds say, cogito ergo zoom!)
I was so impressed with Mr. B_______’s lecture that I decided to always be on guard for unclear thinking on my own part and that of others and vowed to support only truth, not positions. It is extremely liberating.
As for religion, I was taught in the Presbyterian mode, which of course included the Christian bible. Having had Mr. B_____’s lecture and now well-prepared with a critical eye, it took only reading it one time to realize it was a work of fancy and political expediency – a book designed only to consolidate power and profit for the priests, based on humankind’s very natural fear of death. A quick sampling of other representative religions revealed that they were all cut of the same cloth, so I rejected them all. There may be the “one true god” somewhere, but I haven’t seen it.
I have never looked back. Free of the prejudices, unclear thinking and silliness of superstition and dogma I have been a free man since I was nine. I don’t have to dissemble and thrash around to explain clear contradictions in my holy book or why my belief system has caused so many really good people to do such really bad things. Would I reject some kind of religion if there were a shred of evidence? Of course not. But there is none.
The ball is in your court. Please don’t crawfish. It is not a trap; I really want to know your experience.
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By: PFesser on June 11, 2011
at 7:37 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Oh my, we have gone round and round many times about religion here at M&H, but it seems to be a never-ending topic. Raji, I think you are correct when speaking of ‘organized religion’ as opposed to ‘spirituality’. Some would argue that it’s just semantics. I don’t think so. Possibly, spirituality is innate in that all societies separated by time and distance, have always, always come up with “Deities”. Carl Jung called the concepts, “Archetypes” such as the ‘Child’, ‘the ‘Hero’, the ‘Wise Old Man/Woman’, the ‘Devil or Satan’; and of course, of primary importance, ‘Immortality’.
Organized religions are significant for the sake of cohesion in the community and the establishment of a stable society for the people to live in. Problems arise when one religion organizes to the extent where it declares itself to be the only one, and thus, superior to any other. Over time, these views become more cultural and economic than religious. Then it’s easy to settle into the mindset of the medieval geocentric worldview.
With instant communication and rapid travel around the world, that mindset is changing or at least could be. However, even the “My Jesus is better than your Jesus!” is a set up for never ending conflicts.
Now, if each of us, as individuals, is destined to be an itty-bitty duck in an itty-bitty puddle and stay there for life, fine. But it makes the adjustment so much more difficult if not impossible when children grow up and take the opportunities to go out into the wider world. It is a shock to find that their itty-bitty puddle is not the center of the universe! Some will not ever be able to make the transition.
I keep hoping that education in general will advance to include a much more global perspective so that kids will feel at home anywhere on planet earth. Such attitudes begin right here in our own backyards, schools and playgrounds.
Aloha! Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
P. S. Just for the record, these are only a few of the both ancient and contemporary names given to deities other than Jesus. In alphabetical order: Aten/Aton, Buddha, Dieu, Dio, Dios, God, Got, Gott, Gud, Jupiter, Mithra, Odin, Ormuzd, Ra, Siva/Shiva, Vishnu, Yavah/Allah, Yahweh, YHWH, Zeus. Look ‘em up and learn! And then you can understand there are far more similarities than differences.
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By: Jean on June 11, 2011
at 1:30 AM
Take care of yourself, James.
It’s hard to leave your home and belongings, not knowing whether they will remain safe and secure. I’m certain it wasn’t a part of your plans for the year.
These earthly treasures are not all they are hyped up to be, anyway. The comforts of home we take for granted are here today and gone tomorrow. Home is where the heart is. A cliche, I know, but one of truth. God bless and comfort your family and all the others suffering the same fate, I pray.
As far as the supernatural is concerned…
Once you experience it and begin to interact in that realm, there is no denying it. There has been a concerted effort in “modern” society to discount anything supernatural and pass it off as mere foolishness and superstition. Even among the church, whose sole reason for existence is the supernatural.
It really is much like disarming the entire populace. If Hollywood is the only source of “otherworldly” realities, then it can easily be dismissed and explained. Afterall, we’ve “evolved” now. 😎
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By: poolman on June 10, 2011
at 6:17 PM
stay safe James
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By: uawtradesman on June 10, 2011
at 4:31 PM
Pfesser and Noah
As my Mother said, certain topics of conversation should be avoided at the dinner table and religion was one of them. 🙂
My question to Wayne was whether or not a believer and a non-believer can have a discussion of merit without discord.
Noah, the word religion has many definitions. I think you are using it with regard to organized religion. For me religion is a set of strongly held beliefs,values and attitudes that somebody lives by.
Pfesser, let us just say I believe a “supernatural” world does exist. That’s my story, what’s yours 🙂
James, My heart goes out to you and your family and friends.
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By: Raji on June 10, 2011
at 3:42 PM
I hope that didn’t all seem like a condescending response Pfeser. The why of it all is actually a topic I have been giving a great deal of thought to as of late.
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By: Noah on June 10, 2011
at 3:29 PM
James-
Go safe, go well.
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By: alaskapi on June 10, 2011
at 11:58 AM
Raji – as a non-believer I have always had great difficulty in seeing how believers come to their faith. How is it that you view the supernatural world and have come to believe in its existence?
I think in a lot of cases religion sprang as a way to explain the unexplained. I find for many people religion gives them a sense of community and belonging. Faith in what lies after gives them a sense of purpose and hope and a reason for being. Many find it brings them a sense of cohesion to their lives that they cannot find anywhere else.
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By: Noah on June 10, 2011
at 11:16 AM
James –
Even though I’m no believer, God bless you and your family. Best of luck to you, my friend.
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By: PFesser on June 10, 2011
at 11:15 AM
PFessor, its about two miles southwest . Water is a foot or two below the surface of the highway north of us. My wife is scared to death because unlike me, she has never been in a flood.
No one here has been in something like this. Ft Randal Dam employees released about 140,000 cubic feet of water per second with a goal of 150,000 in a few days. Even so, the level of the lake rose .4 inch yesterday. I think they will have to send down more water than they say. I think KFAB has s photo of Logan Pass, Mont. I’ve been there. Another place I’ve been, the Snowy Mountains had 25 feet of snow on the highway last week.
We have a dike around our farmstead. The drainage ditch which runs through our home farm will act as a dam to keep two to ten feet of water from our farm. A foot of so of water will be east of our house and we have a dike to stop it from entering our farmstead, I hope. The ditch is about 3/4 bank full. No one can tell us if the dikes will hold after two or three months of this high water. I’ve been walking the dike to establish a base line for the future.
The power is off south of us and the lights may go off within a few days as close as six miles south of us.
We have only one way out now, and the Corps and DOT tell us the bridges will be safe. We will be staying with our daughter and son in law in Omaha, but we will have to take a circuitious route through the hills to get there.
Several people have offered to help us move some furniture to higher ground, and that will happen in a few days. We are packing and loading the cars. Our Festiva is already loaded with stuff, so we will drive it to high ground and leave it .
A frog strangler dumped on us yesterday. Heavy rains may cause secondary flooding because there is no where for the water to go. I’m spending much of my time, besides loading stuff, in checking on how fast the water is rising, so we will know when to leave. If we go, we will be taking our winter coats. We will be packed by this evening and if the water looks more threatening , we will go, furniture or no furniture.
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By: James on June 10, 2011
at 11:01 AM
James – just checked KFAB.
Man. I surely wish there were something that could be done. Are you getting ready to move now? Where will you go? Will we hear from you once you move? I assume you are ready to move because the exit roads are submerging now. Where is the water relative to your farm?
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By: PFesser on June 10, 2011
at 10:12 AM
I hope anonymous stays.
Dismantling the educational system will do little long term good. It would be akin to building new apartments for poor people. Unless they change their attitudes and values, they will recreate the slum a government rescued them from. Unless society changes its attitudes and values, little will change.
“There’s a lot of water flowing under this bridge
There’s a voice inside saying ‘get your feet wet.'”
“Cause that’s that.
I can scream, I can shout I can cry my eyes out
but its not coming back. That’s that
I can hope, I can pray, but its not coming back
And that’s that.”
Our time has run out. Check KFAB. com’s flood page, if you want.
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By: James on June 10, 2011
at 9:52 AM
Raji – as a non-believer I have always had great difficulty in seeing how believers come to their faith. How is it that you view the supernatural world and have come to believe in its existence?
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By: PFesser on June 10, 2011
at 8:53 AM
So Wayne, are you saying that a person of faith, a believer, cannot have discussions of merit with a non-believer? If that is the case you have confirmed my dislike of organized religion and Evangelists. My faith is in The Creator who loves all creatures great and small.
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By: Raji on June 10, 2011
at 8:42 AM
I was curious as to how a lively debate on various subjects erupted into a religious battle between two posters. So I took the liberty of reviewing each post between ANONYMOUS and WAYNE and pulled all comments that related to religion. I apologize if any pertinent comment was omitted and I apologize to each of you should you think I am out of line in compiling the following comments but I can at least now see the religious thread within the discussion that spiraled out of hand all due to the use of the word MAGIC. My Mother always said to avoid certain topics at the dinner table and religion was one of them and apparently she was right!
ANONYMOUS June 7:Churches should be required to meet the same non-profit status as other secular non-profits in order to get the tax breaks. If they do not meet the same standards they do not get the same benefits, even if they do believe in magic.
WAYNE June 8: I think what you progressives, especially you irreligious progressives (magic), fail to admit is that for all practical purposes, you ran parents like me off with your hostility to our basic tenets and desires. We’ve been laughed at and treated as buffoons, our faith dismissed, our intelligence questioned, our methods mocked
ANONYMOUS June 8: Don’t use the persecuted christian majority argument, the nation is very christian dominated in the population and the government. Really.
However I do not think that religious training belongs in the public schools.
I will even let go of my belief that active classroom prayer not be part of the curriculum as long as my belief in equality is respected. If we are going to pray to one god, then we have to give equal time to all gods. After we give 60 seconds to 3000 or more religious deities and however many others we can come up with (such as the Doctor!) we can move on with the rest of the school day.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” –Stephen F. Roberts
WAYNE June 8:No, Mr. Roberts, I do not, nor will I ever call myself an “atheist”, for I know better.
We can debate who that Creator is, as that is a fair question and one worthy of debate. But to witness there is a creation, but to conclude there is no creator, is the height of irrationality ~ Wayne Perram (Tex Taylor)
ANONYMOUS June 8:You have not even wanted to discuss the benefits of including religion in the classroom, which I think are very real and useful.
WAYNE June 9: But understand Anonymous – and this is no personal threat as no one here in danger of little, old me. You and I will never see eye-to-eye on much of anything of importance. I think the reason I come to boards like this is to voice my displeasure and nothing else but wanting you to know it, as I don’t find your type teachable or rational. In fact, because of your hostile nature toward anything of faith in your very first post, and the demonstrated mockery hereof, I consider you the enemy. You read right.
(a) Like minded, actively involved parents who value education and also value the benefit of faith and country. Some are rich, some are not. This is mainly what you are paying for – quality parents. Religion is not a dirty word, American history is taught under the assumption America is good, weekly Mass is mandatory whether Catholic, Protestant, Jew, or nothing – and no one complains. Many are not Christian and nary a peep from the parents. Somehow, someway, children of different faiths are not harmed, warped or twisted at the end of each semester. Amazing.
ANONYMOUS June 9:As far as my religious “mockery” in my first post I believe that non-profits should be treated equally, and just because someone says that they are a religion it is not enough, they also must act like one. I will not apologize for my feelings for the need for equal treatment under the law. If you want to be offended by people and organizations being treated equally, that is on you.
Please to not claim that I am not rational when YOU are the one with the belief system that cannot be questioned and must be accepted on faith alone. A rational mind requires evidence and powerful ideas are only powerful if they can withstand rigorous scrutiny. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.
Yes I recognize that you seem to be a monotheist, but until you grasp the concept that your disbelief in the sun-god Ra (which I am just assuming, actually), or Zeus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not dissimilar to my disbelief in all of the above AND the Judea-Christian god, you do not get to debate at the adult table. I do not ask you to accept it and change your beliefs, but if you cannot grasp the unifying concept nothing can be done. Try again when you have the needed conceptual/cognitive skills. Again, I am not asking you to change your faith, but to understand why the concept of doubt exists and the inherent question of the rationality of saying all of these other gods are superstitious nonsense but mine is not
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By: Raji on June 10, 2011
at 8:28 AM
Noah –
(tongue in cheek – a little) There are two kinds of people: those who divide people into two kinds and those who don’t.
There are two kinds of people: those who divide people into liberals and conservatives and those who don’t. Those who don’t see people as individuals with complex opinions, each of which should be judged on its own merit.
Those who do see the world as black and white, good and evil and unless someone is “pure” then they are the enemy. Never mind that some of their ideas are more conservative and some more liberal, if they are the enemy one must stuff them in the square box by force, misrepresent what they say, FORCE them to conform to preconceived ideas of their EVIL ways.
That’s why I am far more interested in ideas than ideaologies and why I have enjoyed conversing with “anonymous” recently. I’m not getting any younger and I just don’t have time for bigots – of either stripe.
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By: PFesser on June 10, 2011
at 6:50 AM
JEAN, up those meds. Once again I read your post and aside from utter confusion I bleed IQ points. Is there really any point to this rambling, because it escapes me as it has so many others.
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By: Noah on June 9, 2011
at 10:35 PM
Perhaps this is a good time for us ‘Old Timers’ to refresh our memories on what it means to be a progressive and give some ‘lib’ral’ food for thought to newcomers.
I’ve been doing lots and lots of reading, more like studying, as it is one of the things I am interested in and like to do. There have been innumerable such studies done across different disciplines – Psychology, Sociology, Anthropology, History and Philosophy. Here, I am paraphrasing, however, occasionally using some of the exact same words and phrases.
Theses are a few of the characteristics that denote an “Authoritarian Personality”, how and why he/she got that way. This usually goes for all cultures, in all times, not just American or Western Culture. Starting with the family, the FATHER is the ultimate authority. He is big and strong and what he says goes. “Do as I say and keep your mouth shut – – or else!” The opposite of ‘big and strong’ is ‘small and weak’.
The FATHER’S job is to protect and provide for his family, a very tall order, which he takes seriously. When he is out and about slaying dragons and hunting for big chunks of red meat to feed the family, he TEMPORARILY transfers his authority to the mother. Fine. The kids misbehave, they are doing ‘wrong’ and must be punished. “Wait till your FATHER gets home!” How often have we heard or said that? One of the ‘wrong’ things is tattling. Yet, when Mom tattles on us to Dad, is she punished? No. The kids are. A strange inconsistency. There are many, many more not-making-sense-such-scenarios.
The kids learn that someday when they grow up to be big and strong and are always RIGHT, they can do as they like and nobody can punish them since, by then, they have all the authority.. There can be no ‘OR ELSE’. In the meantime, they mostly do what they are told and keep their mouths shut – generation after generation. If they do happen to do something ‘wrong’, maybe nobody tattles so there is no punishment. But they know they deserve to be punished, because they know they ‘done wrong’. (Guilt.) Still, if they can find an excuse or two or somebody else to blame it on, then they never were ‘wrong’ in the first place!
Where does all this authority come from to begin with? GOD the FATHER. George Washington the FATHER of our country. (Six feet four?) The Holy FATHER. Lots and lots of FATHERS!!!
There is a flip side though. The “Nurturing Personality.” Yes, there is authority and yes, right and wrong. Instead of blind OBEDIENCE and punishment, we have to ‘fess up’, express GENUINE remorse, make restitution and receive GENUINE forgiveness, not REVENGE/PUNISHMENT. Demonstrations of LOVE and APPROVAL help the process along. This involves EMPATHY, the ability to actually feel and identify with the experiences of others – good, bad or indifferent.
Example, the husband/boyfriend who gets sick as a dog when his wife/girlfriend goes into childbirth labor. (My husband was kicked out of the labor room 50+ years ago when I went into delivery. He didn’t know what else to do, so he went home to wait for the phone call when it was over. He smoked one of the traditional cigars FATHERS are supposed to pass out when their child is born. As a non-smoker, he got violently ill and wound up in tougher shape than I ever was! I was kinda busy.)
Most people are a combination of the “Authoritarian” and the “Nurturing” personalities in different respects.
In the current but usual political climate, there are the Traditional/Conservative/Right/
Republicans and the Progressive/Liberal/Left/Democrats. Did you know that the French word for “Left” is “Gauche”? Besides also meaning “clumsy” or “awkward”, it has an equal definition – “sinister”.
Oh, yes. Then there is the “Compassionate Conservative.” In my book that is an oxymoron. It may have been a clever campaign slogan, but there is a vast, vast difference between “compassion” and “empathy.”
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 9, 2011
at 9:14 PM
Wayne, you were a bit heavy handed with Anonymous without any cause. Anonymous is what many of us have been trying to get here for a long while. That being a Liberal that debates honestly and with some integrity. I hope Anonymous decides to stay and Wayne I think we should encourage more to be like him. Far better this then the drivel of months past. Just my humble opinion.
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By: Noah on June 9, 2011
at 7:00 PM
Anonymous, thanks for hanging in there. Please don’t give up on this place. Or if you do, let us know where to keep up with your writing! There are several hundred – maybe thousands of readers here. Many have turned away for good but others check in hoping to see some good content to discuss. I’d love to dive into some of these topics with you. I’m in the middle of a very busy season so I don’t have much time to spend but I’m reading and looking forward to more.
Do you have a blog of your own?
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By: delurkergurl on June 9, 2011
at 5:50 PM
Anonymous, thanks for hanging in there. Please don’t give up on this place. There are several hundred – maybe thousands of readers here. Many have turned away for good but others check in hoping to see some good content to discuss. I’d love to dive into some of these topics with you. I’m in the middle of a very busy season so I don’t have much time to spend but I’m reading and looking forward to more.
Do you have a blog of your own? Or do you visit any other good blogs?
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By: delurkergurl on June 9, 2011
at 5:42 PM
Thanks for your reasoned words, Anonymous. Wayne has time and again proven he is not capable of new thought or honest debate. His only stated purpose is to disrupt and insult. It is really a waste of time to try reasoning with him. He’s advocating a divided America, as he professed, much like his fellow “conservatives” seem to prefer. The one that is based on “Judeo-Christian” ideals (as if any of them agree on what those are specifically), like our founding fathers supposedly held.
I have enjoyed your posts and appreciate your perspective. Of course, I have also been labeled “enemy” in the past. Really, Wayne is surrounded and outnumbered by the “enemy” it seems. He lives to harass liberals and democrats. I don’t think there is any other purpose to his being.
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By: poolman on June 9, 2011
at 3:46 PM
I really have to stop responding.
Wayne, why are you so angry?
“I will never see eye-to-eye on much of anything of importance. I think the reason I come to boards like this is to voice my displeasure and nothing else but wanting you to know it, as I don’t find your type teachable or rational. In fact, because of your hostile nature toward anything of faith in your very first post, and the demonstrated mockery hereof, I consider you the enemy. You read right.
The only kinship I have with you is mandated by birthright. I’ll trade barbs or have discussion on a board, and that is it. I don’t care to work with you or live with you given the chance. Your well being means nothing to me now after years of your egregious behavior and bullying. Though I don’t know you personally, I don’t care to know you personally. I don’t like your type. I have no allegiances to you, nor do I wish to help you. Just so we have that straight before any further serious discussion. That goes for your lefty alliances too”
I stumbled across this forum by accident, I saw a declaration that people on the left never actually put up ideas for discussion, but just whine, complain, and shoot others down. I thought “I’ll play” and did. I did not expect this.
I attempted to be polite, but I do have a very dry sense of humour that can be difficult to recognize and that can be mistaken for being less cordial by some.
As far as my religious “mockery” in my first post I believe that non-profits should be treated equally, and just because someone says that they are a religion it is not enough, they also must act like one. I will not apologize for my feelings for the need for equal treatment under the law. If you want to be offended by people and organizations being treated equally, that is on you.
Please to not claim that I am not rational when YOU are the one with the belief system that cannot be questioned and must be accepted on faith alone. A rational mind requires evidence and powerful ideas are only powerful if they can withstand rigorous scrutiny. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.
You really missed the point of the quote I posted (that I thought was an elegant way of introducing a complicated idea. Yes I recognize that you seem to be a monotheist, but until you grasp the concept that your disbelief in the sun-god Ra (which I am just assuming, actually), or Zeus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not dissimilar to my disbelief in all of the above AND the Judea-Christian god, you do not get to debate at the adult table. I do not ask you to accept it and change your beliefs, but if you cannot grasp the unifying concept nothing can be done. Try again when you have the needed conceptual/cognitive skills. Again, I am not asking you to change your faith, but to understand why the concept of doubt exists and the inherent question of the rationality of saying all of these other gods are superstitious nonsense but mine is not. Some of us are struck by this problem at an early age, others are not.
Also you have shown much more hatred to Americans and doubts as to their competence than I have. I do believe we are the greatest nation and that we can solve the toughest challenges, it appears you disagree. That is your right. You spew anger at those who disagree with you. Okay, again not the rational and adult way to act, but it is yours.
On my posts (until this one perhaps) I tried to mention areas where we were in agreement, because there are many topics we seem to be in agreement on. It appears that it takes very little disagreement with you to become “the enemy.”
Actually most of your points (a-h) make sense, I have personally advocated for public schools to adopt uniforms for many years for instance, but many of the points are also obvious beyond discussion. Schools make clear rules? Duh. Education before athletics? No doubt. It is better for parents to be involved? Did we not agree on that days ago? Need for college prep? Yes, it is not 1974. For the record I am strongly opposed to “self-esteem” ribbons. I feel that real self-esteem is earned by the self for work and true achievement.
A subset of point (b) is telling: “you don’t abide, you’re out” this is a fundamental difference between the private school and the public school, the ability to weed out anyone who does not measure up to the standards of the institution. It is easier to keep your scores up when you can remove anyone that might lower your average. Public schools become the school of last resort (before prison).
Also in the glorification of the students and parents of private schools have you looked at self-selecting sample bias? It is pertinent.
To everyone else,
Thanks for your time, and your comments. I feel I have learned why debate is difficult here.
–The Enemy (hostile, unteachable, and evidently I have been bullying Wayne for years… I must use this power wisely, and only for good.)
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By: Anonymous on June 9, 2011
at 2:19 PM
Anonymous –
It’s going to take me a while to digest your post, but a couple of things come to mind, the first of which is that what we used to do worked just fine; what we are doing is to my mind a disaster, so I don’t see reinventing the wheel.
The second is that what foreign countries are doing is working just fine, so if we don’t want to be “regressive” and use our own prior blueprints, then let’s STILL not reinvent the wheel and do what *they* are doing.
Thirdly, the idea that tests don’t measure anything is in my mind a bogus meme. We all know that the smartest kids in our classes always did the best on the tests. Were there exceptions? Of course, but not many.
Fourthly, just paying the same people more money to do the same job they are already doing doesn’t make any sense. I don’t see how that improves education. I think you educate the teachers and then TEST them, yes test them, and wind them up and get the hell out of their way. Make the tests hard, but make the salaries tied to passing those very hard tests, so you don’t just throw good money after bad by paying the same people more to do the same thing they are already not doing very well.
Fiftly, there have always been crappy parents, uneducated and uneduc-able who live up in the hollers and imbibe strong drink. Why do we need to contract with these people, who can’t even get their own lives together? They won’t be any help. It seems like my blaming my patients when I miss their lung cancer because they didn’t come and help me read the x-rays. I am the expert; not them. Ditto the teachers, not the parents. Now if the kids come to school dirty and hungry, that is a different matter, but I don’t see adding even more complexity unnecessarily, particularly when what we used to do was just dandy.
Thoughts? Anybody?
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By: PFesser on June 9, 2011
at 1:13 PM
A few suggestions of experience and observation about private schooling from one set of eyes Anonymous. Here is my starting point after mutually busting the unions, firing the chaff, eliminating the Dept. of Education, etc…That’s the first necessary step. You’ve got to raze to rebuild.
But understand Anonymous – and this is no personal threat as no one here in danger of little, old me. You and I will never see eye-to-eye on much of anything of importance. I think the reason I come to boards like this is to voice my displeasure and nothing else but wanting you to know it, as I don’t find your type teachable or rational. In fact, because of your hostile nature toward anything of faith in your very first post, and the demonstrated mockery hereof, I consider you the enemy. You read right.
The only kinship I have with you is mandated by birthright. I’ll trade barbs or have discussion on a board, and that is it. I don’t care to work with you or live with you given the chance. Your well being means nothing to me now after years of your egregious behavior and bullying. Though I don’t know you personally, I don’t care to know you personally. I don’t like your type. I have no allegiances to you, nor do I wish to help you. Just so we have that straight before any further serious discussion. That goes for your lefty alliances too. 😉
See, there are two Americas. Whatever I have to do, I will find a way to circumvent all of you, work around you. I hope that was your leftist’s intent over the last 15-20 years as that was not my starting point. I find you liberals culpable without apology, and guilty of both negligence and incompetence as charged. 😉
——
But for conversation sake, let me make a few observations Anonymous about the “magic” of excellent private schools and the two common misperceptions used as excuse when private vs. public compared. And I’ll bet if I were to add up the cost of a typical public education Anonymous, it would well more than offset the $250+K costs for my own two children. My property taxes, sales taxes, state taxes, even federal taxes certainly say as much over 15 years.
(1) Private instructors make more? Not here. In fact, I understand they make about 95 cents on the dollar in comparison to the comparable public school teacher and are happy to do so to get away from the bureaucrats and rotten parents.
(2) Private schools are more successful statistically due to a higher per student allocation of funding? Not here. In fact, the per student funding is generally less, and the classroom sizes were generally larger.
So what’s the secret to higher test scores, respectable kid to adult, pleased parents, and happy instructors? Not all are required, but suggested as guidelines. Most are applicable.
(a) Like minded, actively involved parents who value education and also value the benefit of faith and country. Some are rich, some are not. This is mainly what you are paying for – quality parents. Religion is not a dirty word, American history is taught under the assumption America is good, weekly Mass is mandatory whether Catholic, Protestant, Jew, or nothing – and no one complains. Many are not Christian and nary a peep from the parents. Somehow, someway, children of different faiths are not harmed, warped or twisted at the end of each semester. Amazing.
(b) Schools make the rules which are clear and concise – you don’t abide, you’re out. Disruption without penalty is not tolerated. Respect for teachers is learned and expected, and reinforced by parents.
(c) Parents determine the quality upon completion of classroom instruction and teachers and administration are judged accordingly.
(d) Disciplined is administered under purview of school administration, agreed to and signed by parental consent before class starts.
(e) School uniforms are the rule and everyone looks just alike. They are ugly and staid in dress and girl’s uniforms are entirely modest. I did not notice all students classic prudes or rubes when they left either. Somehow, our children found a a way to experience “grown up” and “fun” and “esteem” without the help of the bureaucrats and free ribbons for all in attendance.
(f) Education comes first – athletics second. You are encouraged to be an athlete and various extracurricular activities are also encouraged such as music and the arts. But education comes first, and all students are judged by the same standard, star or not.
(g) A premium is placed on college preparation in high school, if interested. Vo-tech is also an option. At parent/teacher conferences, parents are expected to attend.
(h) Emphasis on the basics through challenge and repetition starts Day 1: that would be reading, writing, and arithmetic for you progressives. Our children were not glorified apes. We had the belief children rise to meet their parents and schools expectations and children wish to please.
It’s about that simple. Reads hauntingly familiar to most public education systems circa 1950, before progressive ideals of “self-esteem”, “social justice” and “tolerance” deemed a birthright.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 9, 2011
at 12:54 PM
PFesser,
Changing from an abstract format where lessons are taught, information absorbed and children tested on the ability to retain information to a format where individual subjects are not taught separately (why should history and literature be two separate subjects?). To a whole day approach with multiple teachers able to be called upon for help in specific areas. The school year would be divided into blocks (6-weeks?) and each block would an encompassing task that the students worked on together, or in multiple teams, to complete. Each block could have a different emphasis but all would have elements from across the spectrum and information would be learned as the need for it arose. Making learning relevant to what the children are doing.
One hope for this model, that has repeatedly played out in schools across the country, as I referenced earlier, is the FIRST competition. And a point that seemed relevant is that they repeatedly have students volunteering (sometimes begging) to spend more time in the classroom. At this stage this is a self-selecting sample, but the ability to take away the “why do I need to learn X?” argument in itself is interesting. Also pertinent is the idea that different pieces of information fit together like puzzle pieces to complete the whole and we do children a dis-service making them fill in several smaller puzzles out of context (math, science…) and when they leave school we expect them to assemble the whole puzzle on their own?
This seems like a more natural way for children to learn (combination of observing, doing, asking questions and solving problems) than having them largely sit for hours a day. I would expect the activity would help quell some restlessness and subsequent behavior problems. Also worth noting that when the children are enjoying what they are doing being sent out of the classroom is a punishment and not a reward.
I would like to see having parents involved at the beginning of each term with something of a contract for success for the children, explaining what sort of support is expected by the parents. Explaining what the teachers will be doing and what is expected from the children and the parents. I would even call for parents to aid in classroom clean-up though out the term and to view the finished projects each block. This could help the sense of community and demystify the process while encouraging parents to take notice of what is happening. Will all parents be able to dedicate time? No, but I would hope to foster the understanding that the parents need to take active interest in the educational process, and encourage all who can to do so.
As children are no longer free farm labor for the most part I would suggest year round school and possibly eliminating strict grade levels and more of a tiered competency model, perhaps you are reading at the 12th grade level but only doing math at the 10th. Allowing students to move on to greater challenges as soon as they are ready.
Problems: This seems overly utopian, but I truly feel that teaching more along the lines of how children would learn “in the wild” has merit. Not all subjects seem equally effective to be actively taught, but hopefully smarter people than I can address this issue. Special needs children will still have special needs and is not addressed in this model. Discipline is a thorny issue and even if you have 80% of the students engaged the remainder can be a disruptive problem. Harder for a teacher to manage active learning and harder to teach teachers how to teach. Is current architecture of schools well formed for this style? How do you measure individual accomplishment? Is it appropriate for early learning, how do you develop task based projects for all levels? Possibility of devolving into too much play? Reading is a core skill, does it need to come first?
Regardless of the teaching methodology applied we need to address what measurements we use to define success. What do we want/expect HS graduates to do? Once we decide that question we have to address how to measure the outcome. Then we have to make certain that our expectations are not controlled purely by the ruler used to measure, what is “enough” for one will not be enough for another. The distinction between training and education must be recognized and addressed. For example spelling is training, while communicating is education.
I would hope to incorporate learning how to learn as a process into the educational system and not have “learning” equated with “schooling” one is an ongoing, natural process the other an activity.
Hopelessly idealistic.
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By: Anonymous on June 9, 2011
at 12:30 PM
I don’t know if it is true in other states but in Michigan to teach at a community college all you need is a masters degree. Classes in teaching are not required. I think the pay raise will get us a better quality of teacher. I would even go so far as to have it be a school wide evaluation on performance, As a whole they pass or no one gets the bonus. This will force them to put time and energy into the areas that are falling behind. Lets clean out the people who cannot perform for whatever reason.
Give teachers greater autonomy in creating their lesson plan. With my sliding scale of pay they have great incentive to create a curriculum that is effective, be that they create it on their own or seek help from those who are already seeing success. Tie a person’s lively hood to their performance. and I think we will see marked change. A side effect of the financial reason for our best and brightest becoming teachers, along with this greater autonomy, I think we will see these smart people come up with better and more effective ways to teach our children.
I think schools and teaching should be one of our top 5 expenditures in this country. The roll of a teacher should be a position of honor and something people should want to fight to become and fight to keep once attained. Everything else fails and becomes an impossibility in this country if we are not well educated, it needs to be one of our top priorities.
I think focusing on the parents is a waste of energy. Too many people, too many reasons why they are not doing their part to try and focus resources on this area. That is not to say efforts should not be made, just that it should play a minor roll in the overall picture.
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By: Noah on June 9, 2011
at 11:35 AM
Anonymous –
Before we get into specifics of teaching certificates and such, I believe there must be a fundamental change in the framework of education in order to produce the atmosphere where teaching and learning can take place. And to be specific, I mean: clean classrooms, discipline, order, streamlining of teachers’ duties so they can put more time-on-task. Do you agree, and if so, how do you envision that happening? If not, how would *you* begin? What are your priorities, and in what order? Not to put you on the spot, but I don’t have a specific plan myself and I’d like to hear what you have.
Thanks,
Prof
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By: PFesser on June 9, 2011
at 11:20 AM
Noah –
Bless their hearts; for the most part it’s not the teachers’ faults. Many are poorly trained; they get NO mentoring once they start teaching, and they spend their time doing busy work. At my grade school Mr. B_______, the principal, would watch over new teachers carefully and if they were having problems, he loved to teach and would come in and teach some classes for them while they watched, as well as mentor them until they got up to speed. Ditto the older teachers; they watched over the new ones too, like mothers. My niece is a teacher; she says git and fer and sich and “I seen,” “he done this or that.” I said, Honey you can’t talk like that; you’re a damned teacher. She said that all the kids talked like that and they were not supposed to correct them because their parents talked like that too. Jesus.
She teaches special ed and spends about an hour and a half every night DOING WRITTEN LESSON PLANS. She is doing lesson plans to teach children how to color, do crafts and not eat the paste. What the hell is WRONG with us?
The system is rotten from top to bottom; it is a physical impossibility to do a good job; I don’t care how well-trained you are. And the few well-trained ones eventually (actually, sooner rather than later) burn out and leave the field. We have to change this. It has to happen.
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By: PFesser on June 9, 2011
at 11:12 AM
Wayne,
Thank you. I found the link interesting, but you continue to avoid any constructive discussion on what to actually do. It is easy to say destroy public education, I have yet to hear the next step.
The initial call was to discuss ideas, I put out some starting points that would completely change the way school is taught, and reasons why I thought they have merit. I have offered case studies of results, some hugely interesting writing on the topic and several points of teaching methodology to discuss. I have yet to get to how teaching certificates act to prevent good people from entering the classroom, or my horror at how many of our science teachers are scientifically illiterate themselves. Actual problems that can be discussed in detail and potential solutions debated.
I have learned that this is not the point. Complaining is not discussing. “Tear it down” is not a plan. I wanted rational discussion of various and competing ideas and instead I got humans.
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By: Anonymous on June 9, 2011
at 11:07 AM
Personally I would give teachers a 50% pay raise to attract a better quality teacher. Hold 75% of their pay in reserve and it pays out in a performance bonus at years end, a sliding scale. Fail;to perform 2 years in a row and you lose your ability to teach until you attend retraining.
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By: Noah on June 9, 2011
at 10:33 AM
Okay Anonymous, I’ve been waiting to respond to that tome you published, but now there is no need. This one is directly for you. Pfesser is absolutely correct. The only way to fix public education is to destroy it and start over. And the author, an educator in higher education mind you and a San Francisco liberal until 9/11, agrees.
Take copious notes. Because pictures are worth a thousand words they say, replete with proof of ties to socialism and communism – did I mention union thugs yanking kids out of the classroom on a school day after years of leftist indoctrination? 😉 Enjoy…
http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2011/06/08/how-a-teachers-rally-made-me-anti-education/
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By: Wayne Perram on June 9, 2011
at 10:00 AM
I have been in Canada many times, and we don’t want their system. A few years ago, Quebec nearly susceeded and people speculated on what would happen should the country break up. La Raza and some other groups want to hispanicisize the South West so it will revert back to Mexico at least culturally.
Mexico needed settlers in Texas and they encouraged Angos from the United States to move there. Too late, they discovered people from the United States were taking over. As you say, a country needs a common language and culture or it will fragment. Mark Stynne wrote in America Alone that Hispanic and other immigrants will be our salvation. It does matter how we manage in flow.
People had the same debate around 1900, when so many Scandinavians and Germans moved into northern parts of the US that the major language was no longer English. Germans were forceably integrated into English speaking society during WW1. It was another of our dishonorable hours.
Clinton committed obstruction of justice, and perjury. He also lost his law license. Most of us would have gone to jail for what he did. Kennedy was a womanizer, but I don’t think he did anything illegal. His defenders said Clinton was prosecuted for committing sex acts, to make it appear Republicans were hunting witches. Thanks to the news media, the charge stuck.
I agree, Rush and some others were unmerciful, but I also think the Clintons got away with theft in the White Water affair. Remember how Hillary played the cattle market one time and made a lot of money?
Otherwise, I agreed with much of Bill did especially after Republicans took Congress and he had no choice but to jump to the head of the parade. He became rather like an Eisenhour Republican.
I agree about Jack Welch.,.I didn’t hear what you heard, but I’ve heard him talk before.
We have been at war in Yeman for awhile. We are just hearing about it now.
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By: James on June 9, 2011
at 9:35 AM
Obamacare on the ropes in the llth Circuit Court, with even the liberal judges joining in:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/a-bad-day-for-the-individual-mandate-in-the-11th-circuit/2011/03/29/AG3A1bMH_blog.html
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By: PFesser on June 9, 2011
at 9:29 AM
Did I hear the news right? We are now in a war in Yemen? Too?
WTF?
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By: PFesser on June 9, 2011
at 8:32 AM
James –
Absolutely true about the English-only debate. If you want to see a people divided, spend a little time in Canada. Tremendous amounts of money wasted in printing everything in two languages. Brandeis said that it is often more important that a thing be *settled* than it be settled *right* and designating English as the language of the realm makes all the sense in the world if what you want is a united country, so we can get onto more important things.
Re: politics of personal destruction. I may be a little skewed in my perception, but from 1993-95 I spent about six hours every day in my basement building an airplane, and I had the radio on all the time, mostly listening to Limbaugh. It got SOOOO old; he wouldn’t give Clinton a single good word, and a lot of it was just nonsense. I was no Clinton fan but it seemed pretty unfair. Yes, they DID denigrate Reagan – witness Garry Trudeau’s “trek through Reagan’s brain” series, but they went after Clinton hammer and tong – and if you remember, they impeached him over something that Kennedy was reputed to do on a regular basis. And no, it was NOT about his lying, even though they said so. It was just “anything” they could find to destroy him. That’s MY take on it.
But all that’s old history. I blame the Repuglicans primarily for starting it; just my bias perhaps. Others feel differently. But no matter, that’s not what is important now. We HAVE to do something to get this government on track and I mean RIGHT NOW.
Speaking of which – Jack Welch was on Piers Morgan last night. Jesus, he must be eighty years old, but you talk about a ball of fire! If he would run for president I would quit my job to campaign for him. He talked about the Chinese and how they had a Vision and we did not, and the things we needed to focus on and how to do it. It was amazing, just amazing. If I can find the interview I’ll post a link. It’s not too often an eighty year-old man gets me roaring at the television, “YES!” but by God he did it.
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By: PFesser on June 9, 2011
at 7:33 AM
The Corps of Engineers abandoned a make- shift dike at Hamburg, Iowa. Farmers brought in rock and more dirt as they fixed a leak and strengthened the dike. So far, it is still holding. A woman in Ft. Pierre, SD advertised on Facebook that she would let refugees do their laundry at her house. Blencoe, Iowa hired locals to build a five foot dike around the town. The Corps of Engineers told them yesterday it needs to be two feet higher. Instead of evacuating, they are rebuilding the dike.
I had a long chat with a Corps of Engineers rep yesterday, and he confirmed my interpretation of events. We had planned to leave before water overtook our main escape route. I 29 will be closed within a day and a half. The predictions are based on an average of an inch of rain per week. The power is or may be off three or four miles south and beyond. The company tells us they have no plans to turn off our lights at this time.
We are getting busier as imagionation becomes reality. We are buying a sump pump today while we still can.
At 60 degrees, it is almost jacket weather. We may get two or three inches of rain in the next few days. My wife threatens to vote me off the island if we get too wet.
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By: James on June 9, 2011
at 7:26 AM
I agree with Wayne Perram about the Democrats and politics of personal destruction. Jean even provided an example. Thanks to Ted Kennedy, “to bork” became a verb. James Carville dismissed Jennifer Flowers with “all you have to do is drag ten dollars through a trailer park.” Read and hear the awful lies Democrats and others said about Sarah Palin. Remember how quickly Democrats blamed Palin, talk show hosts and others for the Arizona shooting before we knew the shooter had a muddled political view which was as much left as right. Recall the short time our new civility lasted as it ended with more Democratic name calling. Republicans are guilty too, but Democrats use it for their professional gain.
Ronald Reagan said ” I did not leave the Democratic party, the party left me.” The same is true of southern and other Democrats.
I agree with Jean about the power of music.
I disagree with how she presented the debate over English as the national language. Her calling proponents of legalizing English as “regressives” while denigrating their writing or speaking skills begs the question. Her slurs of people who support legalized English has nothing to do with the issue. Jean has just provided us with another example of ” the politics of personal destruction.”
We can throw all the money we have at education and build fancy new schools, but without a culture and parents who value the power of learning, we will fail.
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By: James on June 9, 2011
at 7:04 AM
The rest of the School Board story.
I had run for school board because having come from that very school system I had had a terribly difficult time catching up in college, and man was I Motivated! I still had fond memories of my excellent grade school and was still friends with many of my grade school teachers, all of whom were beyond frustrated.
It didn’t take me long to realize just how large the problem was. The Board was mired in a tar-baby. We were completely unable to tackle any problems that really mattered. Incompetent teachers? Protected by the union. Firing one was nearly impossible; the process we were forced to go through took months, and sometimes years, with the union lawyers fighting us every step of the way. The service union that represented janitors and school bus drivers dominated every board meeting, and they were constantly featherbedding any job, like the two amorous janitors who replaced the one at my own old school. It was impossible to discipline any janitor who did not do his job, because once again the process was a veritable tar-baby, and the union lawyers had all the time and money in the world, which we, as part-time board members with other jobs and families – did not.
But it wasn’t just the school system employees. The teachers could not enforce any discipline. The paddle had been taken out of the school. (My superintendent buddy had an interesting observation: you only need it for one kid out of a hundred, but the other ninety-nine know it’s there.) Kids knew that, if they wanted to take a dispute with a teacher to the limit, they would ultimately win and so did the teachers, so they didn’t even try to enforce any discipline. The principals would not back the teachers for fear of lawsuits; the Central Office would NOT back a principal who stood up to unruly kids, parents OR teachers, and the Board would, for fear of lawsuits not back ANYBODY. Parents regularly stormed into the schools, threatening to beat up a teacher who “was mean” to his kid – and sometimes doing it.
The waste of money was horrendous. When I was small we had one school bus, which ran morning and evening, and it was filled to overflowing with children. A few years later when I was on the board, we had three buses: one for the “big kids,” one for the “little kids” – grade schoolers, and the legendary “short bus” for the retarded kids. (Remember, the school system is funded 3/1 for any child who has a diagnosis. (retardation, Downs, ADD, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Aspergers, chronic thumb-sucking, (that’s a joke) ad infinitum ad nauseum, so the system had a perverse incentive to classify a child as deficient – and did so.) Someone had decided that the “big kids” might pick on the small kids, so they had separate buses. Same thing for the “deficient” kids. My response was, where the hell is the bus driver and why can’t he stop any such shenanigans? No answer. That’s because it was a full-employment issue for bus drivers, not a child issue. Oh and by the way, because of population loss – and the fact there were three buses instead of one, all the buses were about 1/3 full. Thrice the fuel, maintenance and labor costs, fewer children transported.
We lived in the mountains of West Virginia. It snows there. Formerly all the bus drivers were burly men. When it snowed, they put on this amazing invention called, “tire chains” and did their duty. Fast forward: now 9/10 of the drivers are women, many of whom are small and physically unable to put on chains, even if they wanted to lie in the snow at 5am to do so – which they didn’t. So, once again for fear of union actions (and lawsuits, should the bus run into the ditch) the superintendent calls off school even with a threat of snow. No school, no learning – not that much takes place even if they *have* school.
So the Board, terminally frustrated, turned its focus to the only job it *could* do: building new schools. The Central Office was always pressing the already-beleaguered local taxpayers for new school buildings, telling them that new, clean schools were the key to learning. I pointed out that, not only was it less expensive to renovate an old building, that learning had nothing to do with the building’s age: many of the buildings at Oxford, for example, were built hundreds of years ago, and Oxford was a pretty good school. I voted against all such buildings, but was out-voted. I didn’t make many friends.
So, there was my school board experience. As a parent, several years hence, I tolerated the system as long as I could and then moved my kids to private school. My only regret was that I hesitated at all; they should have been in private schools from grade 1.
The public school system is like an old house: it is so rotten from the foundation that I believe the only way to “reform” it is to tear it to the ground and start over. I’m not holding my breath. If you have small children and are unable to get them in private school I suggest you do the next best thing: enroll them in Mandarin classes so they will be able to talk to their bosses.
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By: PFesser on June 9, 2011
at 4:25 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Ah, the topic of education, dear to my heart. First of all, many, many accomplished and successful people have often come from poor, disadvantaged and blighted backgrounds. Many, many privileged people mess up their lives something awful. There doesn’t seem to be a magic ‘one-size-fits-all’ formula.
I do believe there are a few basics that are worth considering. The emphasis on “Earning Power” has become of increasing importance to the exclusion of other factors that make up the quality of life. Didn’t the Founding Fathers say something about “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”. I don’t recall anything about the “Pursuit of the Almighty Buck”.
A mentor or two along the way can inspire and point out talents a kid doesn’t even know he/she has. This can encourage and help any kid discover his/her own potential. So how does that happen? A classical education from K through 12 is probably one of the best indicators of the educated personality. This includes all of the Humanities, i. e., languages, (Greek and/or Latin for openers), Literature, Philosophy, History, the Fine Arts of Painting, Music, Sculpture and Architecture along with the myriad Physical and Biological Sciences.
From ‘boy toy’s’ and my own experiences, as well as our sons in both private and public schools, I don’t think it much matter.
We hear a lot these days from the regressives about “English Only” and even making it legally the mandatory language of the U.S. This coming from some, whose English reading comprehension is minimal and writing skills, dismal.
Let’s start with music. There are some indications from studies that early music education, especially in theory and harmony, is helpful in brain development toward math skills. There is plenty of math in music!!! I had very early music education and breezed through higher math courses, no problem. Well, I occasionally have some difficulty with arithmetic balancing the checkbook, OK. But higher math concepts were always pretty easy for me.
Languages. I had Latin early on. The Romance languages; French, Spanish, Latin, Italian and much of English have a foundation in Latin. The terminology common to Chemistry, Biology and Botany are often of Latin derivation. I was in classes with kids who had not had Latin and saw them struggling to memorize nomenclature. I already knew the root Latin words of many of the names.
One time much later in life, ‘boy toy’ and I were sitting in a hotel lobby in Copenhagen, Denmark waiting for our transportation to the airport. The desk clerk was a charming older man probably well beyond retirement age. We noticed as each party approached the desk he spoke to them in their native language. We recognized some of the languages, but not all. He switched languages with each guest as easily as just turning his head toward them. We were amazed!!! When there was a lull in his business, we went over and asked him how many languages he spoke. He sort of chuckled and said, “Eleven”. As we got acquainted he told us he had worked for the National Geographic Society all his life all over the world. We asked him then, which language was the hardest. He thought a minute and then said, “Well, after the first two or three, the rest are easy. Probably Russian and Chinese are the hardest because they have such different alphabets and characters.” Why was he working as a desk clerk, for heaven’s sake! He said, “Well, I thought I might be useful here.” He certainly was!
I think curiosity about the world around us is innate. When nurtured and encouraged, any kid, anywhere, can learn just about anything – given a chance.
People, who don’t know each other, don’t know each others names, don’t know each other’s language, can sit together and feel the exact same emotions in music. Their hearts beat to the same rhythms of the drums.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 9, 2011
at 1:12 AM
And still running now as Republicans for eighteen years and winning big time. What’s that say about your beloved the Dimocratic party?
Liberals win big about every sixteen years, then provide a reminder to a new generation of misinformed, unemployed college graduates why they and their policies are abysmal failures.: 1960, 1976, 1992, and 2008 – history repeating itself, but we never learn.
Just wait until 2012, and you’ll need a whole new set of excuses. The message of 2010 obviously didn’t make it to the cortex and the situation terminal.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 8, 2011
at 10:56 PM
Thanks anonymous, good thought out comments.
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By: Easier on June 8, 2011
at 9:06 PM
And there was the whole swarm of southern toadies like Shelby who got elected as Dems and changed party in midstream. Yippee!!
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By: Anonymous on June 8, 2011
at 9:04 PM
Ronnie was a democrat before he was a republican. Politics is a pretty stupid game. They change shirts every now and then. The teams are really pretty even. When they get mismatched, they pull a Liebermann.
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By: poolman on June 8, 2011
at 8:48 PM
Pfesser, I thought you better than this:
Really? Clinton? Ronald Reagan was referred to as STUPID by Time Magazine and Richard Reeves in print,. Do the names Robert Bork or Clarence Thomas ring any bells about the politics of personal destruction?
How many times has the race card, abortion card been played by Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the rabid dogs of the NAACP and NOW long before 1992?
Oh, I’ve got a million of them I can recall that predate anything Clinton received. the attack dogs have been from the left since I was small. Hell, even Walter Cronkite was a closet Commie. It was during Clinton’s time that Republicans finally got into the game. Now with the advent of widespread internet usage, the jig is up and the game is even.
You need to put the bottle down, and jog the memory my friend.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 8, 2011
at 8:37 PM
I have come to believe I shouldn’t post when I’ve been drinking, but what the hell:
Anonymous: You are what I have been hoping for since I joined this forum over a year ago: a professed liberal (I profess libertarianism) who can drill down to the issues and talk about them in a lively way but still show respect for those who disagree. I have been beating that drum for a long time but the damage done by the MSM (in my opinion) on BOTH sides is complete: many feel that complete obliteration of one’s opponent is the only way to go; I blame the Repuglicans for that, since it started IMHO when Clinton was in office – the politics of personal destruction. You do not do that; in that respect you are ‘way ahead of me; attack me and I’ll respond, sometimes viciously. That is a fault and I recognize it.
I want to know what you think on the issues and why, so I can hone my own point of view. I am always looking for points I hadn’t considered to improve my stand on things. Please continue.
Unfortunately there has been too much water over the dam with many of us; I tried to start a new dialog at the beginning of the year, but as I said, too much water. Several of us don’t respect each other much; that’s a damned shame, but unfortunately probably appropriate in many cases.
Anyway, as General MacArthur said, “Proceed.”
Hope the alcohol didn’t make me say something stupid there…time for another toddy.
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 7:28 PM
Nice to meet you, Anonymous. Great posts and ideas. I miss great conversations here, so finding your posts was awesome. Most people have given up trying to have constructive conversations here and have moved on. I’m sure Stonekettle isn’t legit. Stonekettle Station is another blog, and that post didn’t sound a thing like him. It’s probably an impersonation from someone who feels deprived of the ability to bully Jim/Stonekettle over on his blog.
You’ve provided a lot to learn/think about. Thank you for that. Welcome to the porch. Have some pie.
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By: delurkergurl on June 8, 2011
at 7:19 PM
“For those of you enamored with political polls to shore up your point of view and opinions, here are some thoughts to ponder. Historically, the totalitarian tyrants have always adhered to this principle as expressed by the dictator, Joseph Stalin:
“A single death is a tragedy. [Ten, a hundred, a thousand] a million deaths is a statistic.”
“Sisyphus quit. Atlas Shrugged.” Cynical Jean”
Jean, I tease you about getting old; I guess I shouldn’t do that, because I’m not far behind, but I have to tell you: I can’t make heads or tails of your posts. Are you all right?
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 7:14 PM
Sorry, one last thing.
>I really have come to the conclusion that many of you Libs are proponents of a police >state
Really stonekettle, is this productive? Is it too much to accept that we have similar hopes for our nation even if we disagree (often only partially) on how to get there? Or is it more fun to throw insults back and forth. And yes I have seen insults originating from the left towards the right as well, and find those discouraging and counter-productive too. Are we children?
But as a “lib” I can say that I am not a proponent of a police state nor are any other left leaning individuals that I am aware of. Earlier I advocated for the legalizing of rec. drugs and the reduction therefore of police power and a reduction in the non-violent prison population so I think I have already identified myself in the non-police state crowd.
After 9/11 it is as if we have become frightened children. I was not in favor of the bulk of the Patriot Act when President Bush signed it into law (plus any bill with “Patriot” in the title worries me a bit) and I was opposed to President Obama renewing it. So it seems I am destined to be disappointed both right and left.
Nothing new for me actually, I want rational discourse and instead I get politics.
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By: Anonymous on June 8, 2011
at 6:50 PM
Wayne,
I understand that you feel as if spending money on education will not help, sorry if my trying to clarify that I was look for less federal intervention instead of more federal intervention was taking you out of context, or fixating on a single word. I wanted to focus on the word that you used to be certain it did not appear that I was twisting your words. It felt like my idea was not making it through translation.
I did suggest that higher pay and being treated with respect (as I remember teachers being treated when I was a kid) would draw better candidates to be teachers. That was all I said about education spending. You have repeatedly stated that spending more on the current system is wrong.
>and the mind bending irrationality of believing if we only pour more money into a broken >system, it will miraculously heal itself.
>So you can throw all the money to the winds of waste, but if the student not adequately >prepared, both scholastically and mannerly, then (excuse all the cliches) all the money in >the world won’t fix your problems.
I attempted to start a dialogue about ways of restructuring the school environment to ways that have shown great success in areas as well as being more in line with what many people who research the way children learn claim is better. And I finally have some actual policy ideas back in return. Close Dept. of Education and get better parents. We have already agreed on the parents issue. Maybe you could explain why you feel that closing DoE needs to occur. Who is in favor of incompetent anyone?
Originally the desire was to step up to the plate and put out ideas that could be discussed, and to some degree this has been successful. But I think our relationship is stuck in a rut. You keep telling me that spending money is a waste and I try to clarify and identify when I think it is useful and why. I identify issues and progressive approaches that I think have merit. And a clarification: when I said that the public school system was something that I was proud of (or something to that effect) I was referring to the concept of offering a quality education to all the children of the nation. I feel that this greatly helped our transition from an agrarian culture to an industrial culture. I was not, however, saying I was proud of its current condition.
Yes sometimes I drop back to just explaining that I fundamentally believe that we are a better nation with strong public education, with energy sources that we control, and that clean and efficient is better. I cannot show supporting evidence for these positions they are beliefs that I hold. I do not expect everyone to agree with these ideals
I have been accused of being unwilling to listen to opposing ideas (you apologized for the stereotyping and I accept, I am not trying to reopen that, just explain my position). I have been repeatedly told that spending on education is a waste without discussing merits of changing the way we approach education. I suggested ways to completely dismantle and restructure the learning experience, ways that do not call for more spending, and that has warranted no real discussion. My vision is a radical departure from the status quo and we have not even gotten to discussions of the benefits of student to student interaction where the faster students are utilized to help slower students in team activities and using technology to train rapid pattern recognition which has also shown great promise. Or the micro-step math classes that have been used to great effect in some locales. Or the very core problem of how to develop critical thinking skills in students, something that is desperately being addressed by some at the university level.
We have not gotten to the related area of Dr. Perry’s work on the development of mental processing in students (authority > relativism > using criteria > developing criteria. Interesting stuff, with some impact on how/what/when children learn different kinds of information and the cognitive development that has to accompany such discovery.
You have not even wanted to discuss the benefits of including religion in the classroom, which I think are very real and useful.
I feel like I am trying to honestly discuss ideas and what I have gotten back is not to throw good money after bad, but I have no detailed idea of how you propose to fix the problem (I know close DoE and get better parents, but it is not enough detail to really discuss). I brought up the idea of what metric do we use to measure success, with no response. This idea is important because how we measure goes a long way in determining what is done. It is critical in determining direction. What do we want children to be able to do when they leave high school? We cannot measure success until we know what the ruler is. I recently read some very interesting ideas on the difference between training and learning, but we have not gotten to these ideas.
The world has changed in the last 20 years, now I think in terms of things that are “only” information and ergo easy to find whenever I need to. How to sift and rate information, learn what information to look for in order to solve any given problem, this becomes the difficult part. How do we address this and does our current educational system destroy this ability with rote learning only to have to find a way to reintroduce it later?
I have fessed up to being willing to modestly raise the cost of energy to fund research for eventual long term solutions to the energy problem. A problem that has been obviously coming for 30 years. We have not even gotten to the notion that gas must still be cheap as long as we are willing to throw it away mowing grass (I blame the French for that).
Bored now.
Raji,
I agree that discipline in the schools is a primary problem that must be addressed, I had (mentally at least) included this in my early post regarding respecting teachers as professionals, but have not really gotten back to these ideas with the whole trying to clarify that my ideas were not based on just spending more money, in some unknown way, to “fix” the problem. Legal fears are a real problem, how do we minimize this worry? How do we convince parents that teachers need to exert control in the classroom? What is the line that teachers should not cross? Is there one? What “rights” should students in various grades expect to have respected? This could make for an interesting discussion.
Pfesser,
No I have not read “Hot, Flat and Crowded” but I have read some excellent reviews and discussions about the book and some engaging interviews with the author. I need to put it on my “to read” shelf. Being able to maintain our technological and innovation edge is vital in being a leading global force. This ties back to learning and scientific literacy and development of criteria, but as I have said we do not seem to be able to get past the need to “not spend more money on education” level of discourse.
I have enjoyed everyone’s gracious acceptance of me on this forum.
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By: Anonymous on June 8, 2011
at 6:30 PM
Can any of you
challengedLibs and firm believers in the necessity of the Dept. of Education explain to me why thisabominationDept. warrants a paramilitary team?SWAT Team Raids House at 6 AM and Handcuffs Father of Three Young Kids to Execute a Dept. of Education Search Warrant for Estranged Wife’s Defaulted Student Loans
http://reason.com/blog/2011/06/08/no-really-swat-team-raids-hous
I really have come to the conclusion that many of you Libs are proponents of a police state. We’ve got the IRS raiding kids penny banks, the TSA facilitating legalized molestation, and now the Dept. of Education breaking down people’s doors. And you want more of it? 🙄
I can hardly wait to see what happens when the butchers of Obamacare get hold of you. Just remember, you’ll get to share in the pain….
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By: stonekettle@stonekettle.com on June 8, 2011
at 6:21 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
For those of you enamored with political polls to shore up your point of view and opinions, here are some thoughts to ponder. Historically, the totalitarian tyrants have always adhered to this principle as expressed by the dictator, Joseph Stalin:
“A single death is a tragedy. [Ten, a hundred, a thousand] a million deaths is a statistic.”
“Sisyphus quit. Atlas Shrugged.” Cynical Jean
Aloha! Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 8, 2011
at 5:49 PM
The current discussion and debate is great. I will definitely stay out of any discussion relating to energy and it’s components. My knowledge of electricity is plug it in and turn it on but I do know enough to make sure I’m grounded. I do not like the feel of 110 volts.
With regard to the discussion on education, both Wayne and Pfessor hit on the one component of education that has to be included in the equation which is discipline. Without discipline there is no education. That is the missing element in today’s education system.
Our society has become a litigious society. As long as the school system can be sued for any mishandling of a child, there will be restraints applied toward discipline. A few bad apples have really created a rotten barrel. When police have to be called in to control a second grader who threatens the teacher, the school system has lost control. When a kindergarten teacher is not allowed to hug a child who fell down and skinned his knee, the school system has lost compassion.
Pour all the money you want into public education, remove all the “No Child Left Behind” standard tests, change the curriculum to allow new ideas and techniques, you will still have the problem of discipline in the classroom.
How do we start putting discipline back in the school system? That to me seems to be the question that needs to be answered first.
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By: Raji on June 8, 2011
at 3:53 PM
Anonymous,
I’m not contending we don’t need a good public school system. If we did, I am completely convinced Barack Obama would not have been elected President. 🙂 I’m willing to forgo one time for the historical aspects of the 2008 vote, and concerning the horrid set of candidates, somebody had to win. What I won’t excuse is the now transparently clear conclusion the man elected our current President is an abject failure in every regard. I would call Obama the reincarnation of Jimmy Carter, but Carter never posed a clear and present danger. Carter was simply incompetent and a cowardly – Obama is clearly malicious and without remorse.
You took one word of my rant Anonymous and made a post of it, but my beef is not with mandates – it’s with failure, and the mind bending irrationality of believing if we only pour more money into a broken system, it will miraculously heal itself. Nothing could be further from the truth. And we’ve done that for the better part of thirty years now. If you want a suggestion, you can start fixing the problem by the immediate elimination of the Dept. of Education.
The real purpose of my answer to you was that if your plan stands a chance of working, that you proponents of more funding should be grateful to me and my wife for still supporting the broken education system with our monies without complaint, pulling our children so others could benefit, allowing liberals to then derive and implement their plans, with us simply stepping out of the way.
Problem is, IMO, you forgot in that equation you were losing many of the best parents too, as they simply found another way – one not subjected to incompetent bureaucrats and rotten parents. So you can throw all the money to the winds of waste, but if the student not adequately prepared, both scholastically and mannerly, then (excuse all the cliches) all the money in the world won’t fix your problems.
No, Mr. Roberts, I do not, nor will I ever call myself an “atheist”, for I know better.
We can debate who that Creator is, as that is a fair question and one worthy of debate. But to witness there is a creation, but to conclude there is no creator, is the height of irrationality ~ Wayne Perram (Tex Taylor)
That is, unless you can prove to me Mr. Roberts out of the countless opinions concerning every subject, there is never one called truth.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 8, 2011
at 3:01 PM
Warren,
This is fun and I appreciate your taking me seriously. I truly believe that with honest, rational, debate, we all benefit.
A couple of quick things
>I would be that number is significantly more than the federal system you espouse would >currently mandate.
I have been calling for the removal of federal mandates, I feel like you have a notion of what you think my viewpoint is and read between the lines to support this notion.
“By stripping away mandated testing we give the teachers more time to actually teach and the freedom to try new ideas and techniques.”
“I do not think it should be mandated top down but teachers and schools need the freedom to incorporate new methodologies.”
To my ear it does not sound like I am calling for federal mandates, but for local freedom to work on finding ways to improve.
I do have a fundamental belief that the nation needs strong public schools and that this is a goal that we need to work towards and that using public funds for private schools is the wrong approach.
Thank you for paying your taxes even though your children did not attend public school. I also paid into the system without having any children using the public school. I think we both understand how we benefit from the education of others and wish to find the best return on the dollars spent. I believe that there is a lot of common ground and constructive problem solving.
Don’t use the persecuted christian majority argument, the nation is very christian dominated in the population and the government. Really.
If it helps, I believe that religion should be taught in the public schools. Not in science classes but I think that it is a powerful thread to pull together literature, art, history and culture. Perhaps a comparative religion class would help us understand the broader world and why our secular government is superior to theocratic governments. However I do not think that religious training belongs in the public schools.
I do not believe that school prayer should be promoted, but silent personal prayer is fine and I would assume if the student really believes in its importance that can be an acceptable way of doing so.
I will even let go of my belief that active classroom prayer not be part of the curriculum as long as my belief in equality is respected. If we are going to pray to one god, then we have to give equal time to all gods. After we give 60 seconds to 3000 or more religious deities and however many others we can come up with (such as the Doctor!) we can move on with the rest of the school day.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” –Stephen F. Roberts
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By: Anonymous on June 8, 2011
at 12:33 PM
Wayne –
Interesting that, when I went back for my EE degree, I had a horrible time with the advanced EE classes, but the ME classes were cake. I had done ham radio and electronics my whole life but when it got into the theoretical stuff (electromagnetic fields, anyone?) it was awful. Just too far from reality.
ChemE guys are awesome. They are prolly the smartest guys in the whole school. When I was in high school I stole sulphuric acid and nitric acid from the lab and tried to make some nitroglycerine. I had the acids and glycerine in separate bottles and tipped one into the other with a 200 foot string. I got lots of fumes but when I shot the bottle with a .22 nothing happened. I was just too much of a pussy to get close and do it right. My buddy and I made gunpowder and blew stuff up and made rockets, some of which actually flew rather than blowing all to hell on the launch pad. Those were the good old days; you’d go to jail today if you even went into a store and asked for saltpetre…
More govt. We need more govt…
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 12:17 PM
Pfesser, other than the three weeks of astrophysics I was taught (neophyte at best), I thought electromagnetism was the most interesting concept in all of physics – and while beautifully simplistic at its core, potentially the most confusing to really understand. It was one of those topics I could answer the questions correctly and still not sure I understood what the answer gave me. Tesla should be a household name like Einstein if life were fair.
I told somebody once the beauty of practicality: I could probably talk right over the electricians head about electron drift, but might be incapable of wiring my entire house. 🙂 I have a healthy respect for current, as a 110 reminded me recently.
I bet I would have made a more capable chemical than electrical engineer. I’ll never know as I was and foremost a juvenile delinquent – but if I had it to do over again, engineer is what I would choose.
Too bad we don’t get mulligans in life.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 8, 2011
at 11:58 AM
Re: Bloom box.
Disclaimer right up front. I am not an expert, or even well-read, on the technology. As I understand it, the inventor has developed a membrane coating that will allow many different types of combustion products to be passed over it and the heat directly generates the power. It is DC of course – like a battery – so it has to be converted to AC for use. That was a major problem in the past, necessitating use of “dynamotors” – a motor and generator on the same shaft. I had one of those out of a WWII bomber for a while. It would shock the piss out of you.
But I digress. Nowadays there has been developed incredibly powerful technology that allows electronic conversion directly from DC (Bloom Box) to AC. Three-phase AC was invented by Tesla, of course, and is probably the most important invention in power transmission ever known. Look at the power lines. There will be either three or four, depending on delta or wye configuration, but the important point is that industrial applications depend on three phase power. It allows, for example, a motor to be reversed by switching any two leads to the power line. Any two. It also allows complete speed control by simply varying the frequency. I can’t overemphasize its importance, but up to now there was simply no way to put it in a car.
Fast forward. Nowadays there are controllers so small that gasoline model aeroplanes are nearly a thing of the past, since electric motors are so small and powerful – and there are also controllers as well that are big enough to run a factory! I know you have to be a geek to really love this stuff, but I truly do.
So to answer your question, the output from the Bloom Box as I understand it is DC, which is now trivial to convert to AC – which lets you step the voltages up and down and a myriad of other magic.
It is also quite expensive, but I don’t know how much. But think about it: if you can eliminate the boiler, the water, the turbine you have saved a hell of a lot of money right there, too, so I think it will eventually be far cheaper.
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 11:13 AM
FYI Anonymous – I’m a non-believer too, and even though Wayne and I go ’round and ’round about it, we still get our ideas exchanged and have a grudging respect for each other, so keep plugging. He’s a hard-ass most of the time but he THINKS, which I appreciate. We (and I think I speak for most, anyway) DO want to hear what you have to say.
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 11:00 AM
Pfesser, I just heard about this bloom box for the first time the other night. It is one of the best ideas I have read in quite some time.
In theory, its usage makes sense because of the simple fact of transmission loss and the fact supply could more effectively meet demand. A/C is one of the marvels of the universe, but does have its limitations, storage being the biggest one.
I thought I understood that the current “drawback” was the initial cost of purchase. Did I understand that right?
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By: Wayne Perram on June 8, 2011
at 10:53 AM
😳 be should be “bet” from above.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 8, 2011
at 10:43 AM
Anonymous,
Since you appear to be a serious person, I will give you a serious response. Your comment one that deserves a more serious response than I have time right now. I will address each of your questions/comments when the time is available. And I don’t necessarily believe everything you posted in that last response wrong – there are issues of discussion and issues of division.
However…
Again, I think your premise of more money makes better schools based on a false dichotomy. The allocation per student at most private schools is less than the average per pupil outlay at a public school. If my children’s school is an indicator, the teachers make on average less (about 95% if memory serves) than do their public school counterparts, do teach by the lecture method, and still the school is continually ranked as “one of the best”. I believe money has little to do with it. It’s the quality of the parent, administration, and staff that separates. The school does have the advantage of assuring teachers are in charge, and if the parent and/or child chooses not obey the rules, they are dismissed from the school, with a waiting list of willing parents and students to take their place. It was my observation that the school very much like the discipline and curriculum of a public school system of 40-50 years ago where teachers and the principle make the rules and parents are actively involved in the curriculum.
No, my statement is proof that allocation of scare financial resources is not the problem – the problem is the system, more specifically the bad parenting and bloated administration, including the meddling federal government regulation. Pfessers excellent comment above demonstrated these changes and facts well.
Actually, people like you that are in favor of more money for public education should thank me. Both my wife and I paid thousands of dollars in property tax and continue to do so, without the benefit of recouping any direct benefit for our children. Being that millions of parents have removed their children from the public school system, if your theory of more money per student and teacher held, the results should have followed accordingly – they have not. In my sixth grade class from 1971, I pulled the yearbook out last year and counted the number of students. There were 41 – and I received an excellent K-6 education. I would be that number is significantly more than the federal system you espouse would currently mandate.
I think what you progressives, especially you irreligious progressives (magic), fail to admit is that for all practical purposes, you ran parents like me off with your hostility to our basic tenets and desires. We’ve been laughed at and treated as buffoons, our faith dismissed, our intelligence questioned, our methods mocked. So we created our own schools, or chose to educate our children by ourselves at home on our own dime – you didn’t pay a cent, and more, we were not excused from the burden of paying for public education and continue to pay more each year. And yet, for the most part, our children have left your children in the dust with respect to scoring and college preparation.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 8, 2011
at 10:40 AM
Anonymous –
Have you read “Hot, Flat and Crowded” by Tom Friedman? His take is that electricity is the ultimate common currency of energy and that conversion to electric cars is the way to go. I actually have a little expertise in the electrical trade, and all the components necessary for real electric cars have fallen into place except energy storage. Electric motors have become incredibly efficient and have a very high power density (horsepower/pound) nowadays, largely thanks to the development of extremely powerful permanent magnets. In order to avoid having to use brushes in the motors and their attendant maintenance issues, three-phase brushless motors are necessary, but they only work on three phase AC – two problems, actually. But, technology to the rescue – there are now available high-power solid-state controllers that generate 3-ph AC, allowing the use of these extremely powerful, light and highly controllable motors – all the while allowing them to operate in reverse when braking is needed – feeding that energy back into the system. Of course the one thing we do not have is suitable energy storage – maybe batteries, maybe something else.
As for the generation of energy, I have become fascinated by the Bloom Box. Google it up – that’s interesting really, since much of Google’s power comes from these. They convert fossil fuels directly into electricity, unlike the “old” process of: burn the fuel, boil the water, spin the turbine, spin the generator. A truly amazing technology.
Thoughts?
Good stuff. I am SOOOOOOO tired of arguing the same politics; it is good to FINALLY get on a topic that is interesting.
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 10:39 AM
James,
Thank you and good luck.
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By: Anonymous on June 8, 2011
at 10:36 AM
Thank you PFessor and Wayne. We do feel as the mouse in the cartoon does. It is funny. .
KFAB.com or something like that can be googled. You can hear the morning discussion of the flood. All of that water will eventually reach the Gulf coast. If this lasts as long as guessed, economic consequences will spread to more than the affected area.
I hope you stay, anonymous. Right now, I am too preoccupied react to what you wrote. I do agree with many of your thoughts about ethanol, etc.. Switch grass is one alternative to corn. Of course, using corn helps us since our farm sells corn.
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By: James on June 8, 2011
at 10:19 AM
Wayne,
I think we have different definitions of “unmitigated disaster” and I certainly did not wish to imply that there is not a spectrum of teaching talent from very bad to excellent. And in my defense of the debate of ideas much of my discussion dealt with problems in how standardized testing is a poor approach (even though it has good intentions) due to the human nature to focus energy on the metric that defines success (particularly if your job is on the line). This is not the teacher’s fault these rules have been put in place it is our response to a serious problem, I think it was the wrong response and that we need to change it. In the debate of ideas I suggested revamping the approach to learning/teaching to a model based on applied activities. This is a radical change and as I am concerned with unintended consequences (as we have seen with standardized testing) I do not think it should be mandated top down but teachers and schools need the freedom to incorporate new methodologies.
The type of model I am referring to is outlined in Neal Bascomb’s book “The New Cool: A Visionary Teacher, His FIRST Robotics Team, and the Ultimate Battle of Smarts” and he was on The Diane Rehm show and the podcast is available (http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-03-03/neal-bascomb-new-cool). There is a growing body of evidence that indicates that our traditional teaching model (lecture based instruction) is not how children naturally learn the best and can change learning from natural human development to painful process that many kids dislike. By stripping away mandated testing we give the teachers more time to actually teach and the freedom to try new ideas and techniques.
Pointing out that more money is spent on schools that do poorly is a bit of a cart and horse issue that I think is a bit complicated and considering baseline resources is part of the equation. I am not stating that merely spending more money automatically equates to improved outcomes, that is ludicrous.
I do find it interesting that I am insulting the great teachers in this unmitigated disaster of public schools by suggesting that better salaries can attract better employees and suggesting that treating teachers with professional respect is a good thing. I am, however, the radical.
I am also confused by the argument that spending more on education (and again I am not advocating spending more for doing the same things that are not working) but that your children got a good education via spending a lot of money on a private school.
Here I think we get to the crux of the matter; from your statement it appears that you are in favor of spending more on your children’s education but do not support spending any more to educate other children. I think that public education is important to the nation as a whole and that I benefit from all children getting a good education and that this belief deserves my financial support. I do not mind if you spend your private money on a private education, but I do not want my tax dollars taken out of public education and given to private schools. I also expect you to still pay your taxes towards public schools even though you are not using them because you receive a benefit from other peoples’ children being educated. Sort of like the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats.
Please note that I never mentioned hydrogen, you are that correct developing this infrastructure is pointless and expensive and hydrogen is not an available resource to use for fuel but merely an energy storage medium. And yes we still will be using fossil fuels as we transition, but we have known that we would need to change our energy source away from fossil fuels for at least 30 years now and I keep hearing people say that we do not have to get serious about changing because we still have some fossil fuels left underground. I do not think we should wait until there is nothing left before we get serious about changing.
Electric cars do make sense as the infrastructure is already largely in place, the equivalent “gas-mileage” or the amount of fossil fuel needing to be burned per mile driven is significantly greater. It is also easier to control pollution from a few power plants than from thousands of cars. In order to meet peak demands power-plants must have capacity above what is used during the non-peak times.
I think that the Chevy Volt is really a move in the right direction as traditional hybrids have dual drive-trains that are needlessly complicated and the Volt’s fuel powered engine can be upgraded if mythical fuel cells ever come on-line, but can also be replaced with stirling or other more fuel efficient engines.
Yes recent events have pushed back the likelihood of increasing nuclear power, humans are poor at cost/benefit/risk analysis. A few days ago on NPR they interviewed a representative from a company developing smaller, modular nuclear power plants that offered the possibility of more built in safety features and a lower initial start up cost as utilities can start with one or two and add on over time. This is an interesting option, but it still must overcome basic human fear.
As far as fusion goes I guess I just have more confidence in American ingenuity than you do. Now that the hoopla over “cold-fusion” has died down more effort can be devoted to the hard work of developing real fusion. It is 50 to 100 years away but I think, if we put in the time and money, the engineering issues will be solved. It is not like we do not understand how it works, it is just difficult to do it without a huge ball of hydrogen gas.
Bio-fuel effectiveness depends on how it is done. Ethanol is a waste of energy, at least in the corn sense, but using current agricultural waste material should be used. Even if you just burn it it is carbon neutral. I grew up in a house that was heated with waste sawdust from the local sawmill, it was a burner and boiler system that we had to import from Europe (Finland I think, but it has been 30 years…) We then built a similar, but much larger unit (that could be filled with a front-end loader instead of buckets!) to heat a large business space. I realize this is atypical but it was simple and effective and the sawmill was thrilled to get rid of a waste product.
As far as ethanol goes there is some promising research with micro-organisms being pursued, which ties in with why I think that we need to fund research. I tried to be honest and tie it to a revenue stream with carbon tax, because it is too easy to just say that we should spend money on research. Will this raise the cost of goods and services? Yes, but it will also encourage conservation and innovation. And it is indicative of who we want to be, what are our values? Is it worth 3% to control our own energy source and to cut the amount of pollution that we put into the atmosphere (which I think of as a public resource because I have a vested interest in breathing and assume that others do as well)? Again this is a cost/benefit analysis tempered with the planet that we want to leave to future generations (I actually joke that since I do not have children I can use as many natural resources as I want).
An energy source that that holds promise, that does not need new technology is deep well, or hot rock geothermal. There are many places where standard oil well depth gets hot enough to vaporize water and the idea is to drill two holes close together, one to send water down and the other for the resulting steam to come up that turns a standard steam turbine generator and the water is condensed and used again in a loop. A test plant was being built in the western US and should be testing soon. I expect there to be bugs in the system to work out, but there is no new technology needed. Why is spending money on tar sands better than spending money on a project like this?
Thank you for acknowledging that I am attempting to discuss ideas and actions and not just whine. I do think you need to find some smarter progressive friends to debate with, because as a nation these are conversations that need to take place. We have finite resources (as in money) and need to find effective ways to direct these funds for the maximum benefit. The current very partisan atmosphere is hurting the nation, instead of working together (and hammering out compromises and promoting experiments than can be failures without political gamesmanship) we are splintering apart.
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By: Anonymous on June 8, 2011
at 9:24 AM
Here you go, James. This is you and your family vs the flood.
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 8:59 AM
If there’s ever been a testimony of the false promises of more big government and its natural evolution of entitlement, contrasting people like James and his family versus that sorry, pathetic affair in New Orleans after Katrina should put any argument to rest for the direction our country should take.
James, I much admire your attitude. I never completely lose faith in America as long as guys like you are around, and I wish I could help. If I was anywhere in proximity, I certainly would. You deserve it.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 8, 2011
at 8:55 AM
Thanks PFessor.
Our mail carrier stopped to visit with my wife as my wife finished the last of our sand bagging effort. She said she will deliver the mail as long as she can. Our local post office is trying to persuade the head office to move it to to a town in the hills as several other offices have done, so carriers can continue their work if the worst happens. Her main problem is knowing who is still home and who is not. So many people are gone now.
To show how twisted we are, I was mowing the lawn at the time of the visit.
A South Dakota man said “None of us will be sitting on our roof’s with ‘Help Us” signs.
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By: James on June 8, 2011
at 8:38 AM
neighbors’ not neighbor’s
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 7:25 AM
I like Jehovah’s Witnesses. I like to debate them. After I asked about Lilith, Adam’s first wife, and said Easter lilies are in her memory, they quit coming.
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By: James on June 8, 2011
at 7:24 AM
James –
You and your family are one tough bunch of sonsofbitches. When I think back to Katrina and the shenanigans that went on there it makes me want to vomit. What’s the matter with you? Why aren’t you looting your neighbor’s houses? Most of them are empty, I’m sure.
Maybe being raised in a culture of self-sufficiency rather than dependency on the govt had something to do with it…?
Nah, I’m probably wrong.
The offer to help you find a farm here in VA and help you move still holds. Every county and parish in the country should be vying for a family like yours.
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 7:21 AM
PFessor, Sarah Palin is a smart woman. I think she learned the Paul Revere story on her own, perhaps on her tour. She was not absolutely right, but she was closer to the truth than the Longfellow version most of us learned in school. Now, a battle of the Paul Revere stories rages in Wickopedia.
Honolulu Sally, our children were both honor students because we knew they would need scholarships to pay for college. Our daughter was unloading corn at 11:45 PM and doing her home work in an old tractor with no working light in the cab. A large flashlight aimed at the ceiling provided light.
After I unloaded the combine, I checked on her. She had open books spread around the cab, and she was writing something. I asked “how are you doing?” in my most jovial voice. She replied :=”&&&&&&&&!!!!!!” It was the first time she had sworn around me. I was so proud. Heh Heh.
Our daughter earned 4 point average when she got her MA with thesis at the University of Nebraska while she worked an a bank and had an assistanceship. Though she is still in her twenties, she is manager of a branch of the therapy company which employees her. Our daughter is also the lead therapist. She worries about us and calls every day to be sure we don’t wait to long to leave for her house.
Our local school gave our children and their classmates a fine education because of a confluence of stellor teachers and parental learning ethic. Our son’s class was so damaged by the eighties farm depression, they implemented their own No Child Left Behind. They decided education was their only way out, and if one made it, they all made it. They didn’t all like each other, but they worked together and became their own clique.
Our son’s class earned the largest amount of scholarship money in the school’s history, and 2/3 of the class belonged to the National Honor Society. Theirs was the only class to drive to Council Bluffs at 5AM to have a good bye breakfast on their last day of school.
Things fell apart after the class went its separate ways. After our son graduated from college he attended the high school graduation class of the younger brother of one of his classmates who had also graduated from college. The first thing she said to our son was “Not many of us made it did we?”
Our daughter’s class copied our son’s. Many of the young people who initially failed didn’t give up. They returned to college or other schools in their mid twenties.
My wife retired from our local school this month. Over half of the teachers were once her students. Five of them congratulated her for leaving because they wish they could too. She says it is not the school she taught in as recently as five years ago.
However, our children’s classmates and others have shown that student’s and their families attitudes and values are as important as the quality of teachers and schools they attend.
If you read the archives, you will find many slurs cast at those of us with contrary views.
Jean has insulted me and others plenty of times. Last August, she organized an election to vote me off the site. Of course, it was only symbolic and humorous, but still…I only throw slurs at her if she does to me.
Jsri had an Emily Letitia moment when he owed me a “never mind” after casting slurs based on something he assumed without reading what I had written. So, if some of us assume we are being attacked when we are not, we have a history.
Time is running out. Our main escape route, I 29 will be closed in a few days, and it may be flooded through the fall. We have two other options through the hills east of us. No one knows what will happen, including how high the water will be. The Corps of Engineers hint they will release even more water than planned. The long-term future of our school is also in question.
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By: James on June 8, 2011
at 7:13 AM
Honolulu Sally – Re: Jehovah’s Witness protection schemes
When I was in residency I used to tell the Witnesses that if they needed blood I was going to give it to them, no matter what their wishes – that they weren’t going to tie my hands so that I had to watch them die.
It worked perfectly. They always transferred to another service.
At home: I learned this from a friend. When they knock, go over to the door, open it a crack and show one eyeball. “Yes?” “We’re from the Jehovah’s Witnesses…yada yada.”
“I can’t talk to you. I am in the Federal Jehovah’s Witness Protection Program.”
And close the door.
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By: PFesser on June 8, 2011
at 6:57 AM
Here is what we need
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 10:12 PM
Interesting Pfesser. I would be interested in hearing your observations as parent and school board member, because I respect the viewpoint, even if you’re a pagan. 🙂
One short one. I have two friends, public school teachers until they retired within the last two years – both tell their younger teachers to take less money and get out of public school system. They’re trapped between idiot administrators and threatening students, with parents and attorneys as backup..
Both hated it.
Both my children received wonderful educations in private Catholic schools – but mom and dad paid more for their K-12 education than they would two private college educations. However, I still feel it was the best investment we made as parents. College has been a breeze for both, and though their mammy is an incredibly smart lady who passed on her genes, the school played the largest part of it. Dad’s responsibility was to listen to mom – and he did.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 7, 2011
at 8:24 PM
Bravo, Anonymous.
Noah, maybe I’ll see you later in another future M&H post. I feel like I have taken up too much space lately and I have been neglecting paying bills and doing my duties, both personal and business.
Keep learning. If a Jehovah’s Witness ever comes knocking on your door, ask if they have an extra copy of their “Family Happiness” book. Although I don’t like much of what that religion teaches, I did like that book. Hopefully they just bring you the book the next time and don’t see you over and over. My husband is a Witness now and that was the first gift he gave me 33 years ago when we began dating.
Aloha, Namaste, Peace.
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 7, 2011
at 8:19 PM
My bad. Should be 33,000 kids down to 13,000, not 3300 and 1300.
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 7:48 PM
Great discussion!
I would like to offer my observations from three sides of the school system – first as a student, from K-12, then after graduate school as a school board member and as a parent in the same school system later on.
All of this is in the coalfields of West Virginia. As a grade school student I found the system clean, efficient and very effective. There was a definite hierarchy, with the principal at the top. Mr. B_______ had been a schoolteacher in the ‘forties; he wore a coat and tie and was always referred to as Mr. B_______. The teachers referred to each other (at school, anyway) as Miss or Mrs. _________. There was one janitor and the school was VERY clean. A school bus driver coached softball during the last period, but after a science test the 7th and 8th grade team was decimated for two weeks as the pupils, as they were called then, worked on remediating their tests until the science teacher was satisfied. There was no question who held the trump card; it was the teacher, not the coach. The kids had no question either: If you bucked up against a teacher you would always lose; if you pushed it very hard she would paddle your ass or get Mr. B_____ to do it. I found out the hard way. By God it hurt. I didn’t need a second dose.
High school was chaos. There was absolutely no order. I had to buddy up with a friend to watch each other’s backs lest one of the seniors put our head out the window and close it. (That was their idea of fun.) We tested in this system every three years; from 6th grade in one school to 12th in the other my national (yes, national – even poor kids in good schools can do just fine) ranking fell from 97th percentile to 50th. I still have the scorecards.
Fast forward fifteen years. I have returned home, run for and won a seat on the school board. A Nation At Risk has been published.
I am amazed at the chaos. The Service Worker’s Union has forced my little grade school to hire two janitors, a man and a woman (can’t discriminate, can we?) My old school is filthy. The two of them are caught f**king on school property but nothing can be done because the union threatens a discrimination lawsuit. A gay acquaintance of mine from years back has been hired as a civics teacher at my high school. This is the coalfields of WV; he not only has to fight the gay thing, he is utterly incapable of controlling the classroom and does not fare well. The kids set his wastebasket on fire; we send an “improvement team” of other teachers to evaluate him in preparation to fire his sorry ass. They present their report: he is a “highly effective teacher.” Chalk one up for union solidarity. I begin playing bluegrass and drinking liquor with the superintendent on weekends, who is a hell of a fine fella and no slouch of a singer, either. He tells me that he has about 100 pages of new regulations each month that he has to implement. The teachers are being encouraged by the Federal Government to classify kids as mentally retarded because the funding formula says they get triple federal dollars for retarded kids. And by the way, we look up the staffing from when I was a kid in the same system. They had in 1963: Superintendent, assistant superintendent, truant officer, secretary. Four people. At that time, 1985, they have over 100 people in the central office – and an entire division of it just for regulatory compliance. Oh and by the way: because of West Virginia’s perpetual recession, the school population has decreased from 3300 kids to 1300 in the same time frame. They have gone from four to over a hundred – in a 3/4 million dollar NEW building – to supervise a system with less than half the students.
Later on the experience as a parent if anybody is interested
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 7:35 PM
Actually in some ways Anonymous, though not your intent, I found your post insulting to many great public school teachers, as your suggestion insinuated we didn’t already have qualified teachers. And though neither of my children ever attending one day of public education, our intent wasn’t to separate our children from the public school teachers, but the administration, government curriculum, and most importantly millions of rotten parents.
I honestly don’t know how you can’t call public education a disaster. We rank second to last of industrialized countries in science and math testing, have spent billions to improve scores, yet as any higher education facility of any repute will tell you, remedial coursework is required for a majority of publicly educated students. There has been no direct correlation between per student spending and higher test scores. In fact, some of those public school systems receiving the greatest funding are also some of the worst: Detroit, Chicago, D.C.
I will apologize for my initial shot across the bow. I have grown jaded to the typical brain dead liberal post here, tired of having to repeat these same points ad nauseam, and mistakenly threw you into the fray, where your post of quality didn’t belong. Mea culpa.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 7, 2011
at 7:17 PM
While I’m here, I might as well answer some of the obvious shortcomings of Anonymous’ suggestions:
We already have a carbon tax. Are you aware that the federal and state governments already take in 5-7 times what a petroleum company makes off a gallon of finished product derived from crude oil? With gas now over $4.00 a gallon, how much do you propose to added and collected from an already inept, inefficient and bloated federal government that for three years hasn’t even been able to construct a budget? And then who do you propose received the “carbon tax” and divvy the pie to conduct the research? A Congressman that doesn’t have the sense to not send risque pictures of himself to strangers? Let me give you a heads up on subsidies from our illustrious federal government. The latest fad called “wind and solar” has received more than 100 times the subsidy per megawatt of energy produced than hydrocarbons and nuclear have.
I won’t mention the trillions of dollars required to handle the logistics of “pumping hydrogen.” Where do you propose to get the capital to make the initial investment?
The middle class is already having a difficult time affording to heat and cool their home. How much more should the typical consumer pay for heating oil or air conditioning when real unemployment is probably now well over 20%? Are you also aware that by taxing feedstocks (carbon credits), virtually every thing you purchase from consumer staples to plastics will also cost more and be passed to the consumer? Hyperinflation is right around the corner, if not already here in some capacities, and you want to add further burden?
Fusion has proven a pipe dream and even if possible in mass production, is years away from development. Hydrogen has problems of its own, is generally produced by steam or electrolysis, again powered by fossil fuels, and the fuel cells themselves would add approximately $100,000K to the price of the most basic car. Our needs are now. Electric cars are charged by coal driven powerplants. Biofuels cost more to produce than they provide in thermopower. Nuclear, while a reasonable alternative is probably shelved for another 30 years, due to the tsunami. And I wasn’t aware that stones had thermodynamic properties, unless baked by the sun.
However, we have opportunities now to wean ourselves from all of the problems – it’s called tar sands and compressed natural gas – part of that 19th century technology that still overwhelmingly powers the 21st century. In fact, without it, our 21st century would quickly devolve back to about 1900.
But like Pfesser, I do acknowledge that was a valid attempt at debate and discussion – a rarity here from the Left. A tip of the cap for a thought provoking post.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 7, 2011
at 7:04 PM
Warren,
Thanks for taking the time to reply in regards to my post. I am sorry I am only a talking memo.
I agree with the need for better quality parents, but I do not feel like this is something for the government to address. At least not in any direct way, improving education will, in the long run possibly improve this a bit as the more educated the parents are the greater emphasis on the importance of education in the household.
The pressures of a global economy are indeed greater now than in the 1950’s which acts as an indicator of how important innovation is to long-term prosperity. Phil McKinney, CTO of HP believes strongly in the emergence of a “creative economy” that will be equal, if not greater than the impact of the emergence of the ‘information economy.” And those information jobs can go overseas much more quickly and easily than manufacturing did so it behooves us to develop every advantage that we can.
With other nations improving their institutes of higher learning it will become even harder for for the US to maintain our lead in innovation. If we lose this edge the future will be bleaker for us as a nation. I think that Americans are more innovative, on average, than other nations but this is a trait that must be encouraged.
The tax rate comparison is meant to counter the automatic assumption that lower taxes lead to more jobs, an assumption that seems to be unsupported by current conditions. Can business be taxed too much? Of course they can, the question is finding a balance, which is why I suggested a tax rate close to the rate in the 1990’s when we had solid growth, good employment and a lower fed. income tax rate than under President Reagan as well as a lot of global competition. I do not remember this as a horrible time in US history. Maybe I was too busy running my own small business at the time to notice, it is possible, I was quite busy then
Another aspect of comparing the time frames is the percentage of CEO pay to worker pay. This has increased dramatically in the last 2 decades
I think you underestimate me when you declare that your arguments would fall on deaf ears, that is actually a bit insulting. If we are both rational (and I know that I am) we can discuss ideas even if we do not fully agree. I suspect that you want a prosperous, strong and safe nation. A nation that offers opportunity to all, but does ask for some level of helping out with the nation’s business. Debating the pros and cons of different ideas can lead to better ideas.
For instance I do not see public education as an unmitigated disaster, but an area that shows our strength as a nation. The idea that every citizen is expected to receive an education, when we started this, it was not the norm.
I do not understand why the argument that you get better quality of workers with higher salaries applies to business, to sports, to lawyers, to doctors to college professors but not to teachers. I know you think I am daft, but can you explain why that logic is so accepted in other fields but does not work in this environment. I also stated that professionalism should be raised, this refers to how we treat the profession, not only pay but respect.
Honestly I do not remember when we had a carbon tax, universal service (military or other) when we decriminalized recreational drugs and focused our prison population on violent offenders. When we taxed churches or why we should not reduce buying energy from foreign sources. Why moving grade and secondary school education away from standardized testing where teachers everywhere are encouraged to “teach the test” is a bad thing. You say you can easily discredit every suggestion I made, that they have all been tried “in spades” and failed. I will listen, even if I do not agree, for one thing I do believe strongly in is the need for a civil society, one with dynamic discussions of ideas and not just yelling back and forth. I hope that I have maintained my own standards in this regard.
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By: Anonymous on June 7, 2011
at 6:44 PM
Bingo! Global Economy makes financial history mundane. It’s a new world out there and people need a wake up call. Times have changed.
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By: Raji on June 7, 2011
at 6:43 PM
Not even honest in comparison – no wonder libs are hopeless. We aren’t talking math Sally – we are talking politics. The opposite of progressive is conservative. Would the opposite of heterosexual be appropriately labeled f*g or dyke? And I assume that the opposite of “teabagger” to be what? Progressive? What a joke. I have never read such blatant duplicity that I read here.
There is one piece of advise this shyster and sham gave you Noah that she is absolutely correct, by accident of course.
She’s not worth your time.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 7, 2011
at 6:34 PM
Hi Noah,
I read Jean’s last two posts again and couldn’t figure out how she was insulting you or your people (btw, who are your people?) The first post basically said that Clinton was also a douche bag for his infidelities and that might be a jumping off point of support for Weiner becoming President. This was more of a comment about the state of our morals rather than an insult.
Then, in a post about education, she wrote, “Sitting around moaning, groaning and complaining in typical regressive fashion about how awful things are, doesn’t solve problems. I feel this and other similar educational ideas are progressive in getting the U.S. on track for the future. It will give our bright young people the incentives to succeed in innovative and productive lives not only for themselves but also for our country.
jsri, it seems to me this is right up your alley! I know you have been quite generous with your time volunteering.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean”
This, I thought was good general advice. Regressive is to return or revert, the opposite of progressive – to move forward or advocate for change. If you feel you are regressive, then this would be good advice.
If you feel you are progressive, then regressive is the other folk who don’t want change.
If her words upset you, scroll on by her posts. Easy to do. I am having a much more pleasant read this way since I have decided to disregard what disparages me IMHO.
btw, Anonymous (popular name), I like what is at the top of your head! I also like the way you do not provoke and just say what you feel are important issues. We think alike, on many of the points.
Aloha ka kou,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 7, 2011
at 6:14 PM
Public Spending. I am in 100% agreement with you on the war on drugs. It cannot be won as it is now. If you can’t beat it, control it, own it.
Civic Duty. I have a friend from Spain. He told me after high school he was required to perform 2 years of military service. I would love to see something like that instituted in this country. 1-2 years of either military or some form of public service, build some character and maybe give them some interest and ownership of this country and their community.
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 5:57 PM
Anonymous, great post, it is about time some glimmer of hope came from the left.
On Energy. We need more work done in the area of renewable and alternative sources of energy, and we need it in a big hurry. I am for massive expansion of our nuclear plants as well as refining our current renewables to make them more viable.
Education. I have long been a proponent that teachers should be one of the highest paid positions in our nation. We need to give our best and brightest a reason to want to teach. However the current system needs to be overhauled in a major way. I do think high pay will lead to competition for teaching jobs and I think that will do a lot to raise the bar, but to do that we need far greater accountability systems in place.
Agree with your point on Churches 100%
Research, I am with you as well on that.
Economy. I agree, spending so much on foreign oil hurts us in many ways. We need to drill more and exploit what resources we have at home while researching and leading the way to alternative sources of fuel.
I argued in my business ethics class that business has a fiduciary responsibility to their community, because without the resources of the community around them most would not be able to be in business. However, in reality it does not seem to work that way. Their responsibilities seem only to be to their investors. There “should” be some balance and contribution but at the end of the day a business typically is there to make money, and there is nothing wrong with making money mind you. When people invest money they deserve to get the most return on that investment. To force morality on a business would be akin to a dictatorship type rule so the only thing I can see is to incentivize them somehow to do their part in the community.
I think Republicans need to look further ahead when it comes to conservation of our planet, and do things that have long term positive effects. Liberals have to come way off the green peace wagon and not worry about every minute form of life. There is middle ground we can live by, but to achieve a lot of your goals you listed, Liberals are going to have to ease up and we need to start using what we can get our hands on here at home.
To the other Libs, you were just shown how its done, read, learn, and implement.
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 5:53 PM
Anonymous –
Well thought-out arguments. Some I agree with, some not – but no matter. You made the effort, instead of sniping from the sidelines. Kudos.
Anybody else want to give it a try?
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 5:35 PM
Anonymous,
Wonderful talking points from the Leftist Talking Memo. Most of all those suggestions you made have been tried in spades, and all have failed. For instance, we have poured money into education and it has been an unmitigated disaster. The solution is not higher teacher pay, but a better quality parent. Good luck…
I could refute virtually every one of those points you made easily, but it would fall on deaf ears. So I’ll just make one point. You progressives keep reverting back to the tax rate of the 40s and 50s. And while I’m sure your facts true about higher tax rates, what you fail to understand was that there was no “global economy” in the 40s and 50s, and the rest of taxes and fees were substantially less – our collective tax rates when all things considered has never been higher, partially explaining why the middle class is being squeezed. Your comparison of mid 20th century is at best wrong headed and more specifically specious.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 7, 2011
at 5:15 PM
I just stumbled across this blog and saw some challenge about progressive ideas. I have yet to track down the original post, as I have concerns about getting sidetracked and not getting back to the challenge for ideas. So if I misunderstand what is desired I apologize up front.
Energy: A small carbon tax to act as an incentive to monitor carbon pollution and provide seed and research money for further development of renewable and long term energy production (i.e. nuclear, and eventually fusion). Whenever I hear people proclaiming the need to focus on 19th century solutions to our energy needs I hear people saying that they believe Americans are too stupid to come up with something better. The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones.
Education: What we value is what we are willing to spend money on. The teaching profession needs to be raised once again to the status of a respected professional. The right is always claiming that CEOs must be worth the huge bonuses that they get, in order for the companies to get the best people. Same argument, if you want good teachers you need to offer good pay. Instead of merely demonizing teachers we must offer additional support and training/mentoring to them. Someone recently wrote about how instead of blaming our soldiers when a strategy does not work we look to officers and to making certain the soldiers have what they need to succeed.
Student achievement measures need to be changed. Teaching to a test is a poor way to educate, particularly when we need students who can apply critical thinking skills, not rote answers. Thought should be given to a task based learning system where children learn by being given actual problems to work on and taking a cross-disciplinary approach, not teaching subjects in a vacuum in highly structured subjects. Help kids learn how to learn.
Public spending: Stop the war on drugs, it costs too much to build and staff the prisons for many of the non-violent inmates. Learn from prohibition, legalize and tax. This does not mean people will be free to endanger others, just as you cannot legally drive drunk you cannot legally drive high. Divert money from prisons to schools (again; what do we value?)
Taxation: The highest bracket of federal income tax in the 1950’s was 70% and we remember the great recession of the economy in this country then. The wealthy can contribute a few percent more to the nation, highest rate of 40% perhaps. They are getting great rewards from citizenship it is fair to have them give back more.
I also find it interesting the argument that lower taxes means more job development. Given the nature of tax write-offs it would seem that higher tax rate would encourage more investment and less hoarding of cash. I grew up in a family business and we were always quite aware of the notion of spending down some profit to lower the tax burden.
Civic duty: All classes need “skin in the game” of service to nation, I think forcing military service upon all would be too much, but a spectrum of civic services options should be required for a short term of service (1 year).
Churches should be required to meet the same non-profit status as other secular non-profits in order to get the tax breaks. If they do not meet the same standards they do not get the same benefits, even if they do believe in magic.
Research: What kind of a nation do we want to be? We need to be the leader in innovation to be the leader in the world. Do we want US space-station travel to be on Russian rockets? Are we satisfied that the worlds fastest airplane is from the 1960’s?
It seems like some on the right misunderstood the president’s use of the phrase Sputnik moment. It was the wake-up call that we were falling behind and needed to put real effort into catching up and surpassing the USSR in the space race. I remember people at the time complaining about the cost, but the long-term economic boon created has transformed the world.
Economy: I view our current habits in energy consumption and importing goods to be akin to exporting money out of the country. Again revamping our energy policy to keep those dollars here is a good thing. American corporations should have some patriotic back-bone and decide that it is worth a few percent to employ Americans at a good wage, stockholder profit should not be the only metric of success. Likewise consumers should consider the worth of spending a bit more on US produced goods. This really has no policy application, but is just my opinion. Showing how patriotic you are by flying a flag made in China seems counter-productive to me.
A few thoughts off the top of my head.
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By: Anonymous on June 7, 2011
at 5:00 PM
Sally, you do for you however you see fit. I have no problem how you chose to conduct your life or the choices you make, they are yours to make. Jean goes out of her way to be insulting to what I consider to be my people. She doesn’t offer an even handed approach and she is not here to have a conversation. She is here to present a slanted point of view based on little facts with little other intent than to be hurtful and crass. When you post on here, you open up yourself to scrutiny, so you either grow a thick skin, or you better be able to validate your opinion..
Most of the time Jean makes one outlandish statement after another and chose to neither respond or offer up rebuttal to her, unique, way of thinking. Since she chooses not to engage me and mine and allow us an opportunity to defend ourselves, I feel I have every right to treat her as she treats us. As with you, if she chooses to engage in fair and equitable discussions, I will be happy to instantly return the favor. She wants to be nasty, I’ll give it back to her in spades. Treat others as you wish to be treated.
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 4:28 PM
Sally, with all due respect to that sappy post to Noah, when some dingbat likes to refer to “regressives”, “teabaggers”, “Creationists”, or a host of other pejoratives used to here to refer to Conservatives, Tea Party activists, Republicans, even Libertarians, then I think at best you apply a gigantic double standard in your determination of right and wrong.
Perhaps you should tell Auntie Jean or your other “sistas” to clean up their own house first, then perhaps we can talk more civilly. Frankly, your comment makes little sense at a blog like this whose very objective is to be humorously offensive. Grandma’s comments are anything but milquetoast.
Personally, I don’t think you have a problem with derogatory remarks, as long as the remarks apply to the right people.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 7, 2011
at 4:17 PM
Sistah Jean,
You know how strongly I feel about public schools here in Hawaii. The last time I saw a ranking by States, Hawaii was pretty far down the list.
President Obama attended one of the best private schools in Hawaii, Punahou, on full scholarship as a youth since his parents/grandparents were not affluent. I haven’t looked up private school rankings, but I believe Punahou is up there near or at the top.
As a public school parent, I “hated” Punahou. The rich kids went there, snobs (imho) went there. They had the best athletes, the best facilities, and the school turned out the entrepreneurs and the innovators of Hawaii and beyond. Punahou offered a great education.
Although it is true that it is up to the individual child to get the most out of his or her education, having a great primary and secondary education gives them a huge advantage. Having a great education in an school like Punahou but being of the poorer class and being a minority of Black descent (probably only 5 in the entire school) builds character.
President Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” was one of the worst programs ever implemented, and our Superintendent of Education and our Department of Education were all for it and thus began an even faster descent of the education of the Hawaii kids.
What it did was further the dumbing down of our kids in public schools and increased the gap of quality of education between public and private schools here.
We need programs that will engage our young people and make them smarter and more productive in the sciences. I’ll have my teacher daughter check out the ScientificAmerican link. (mahalo!)
I over heard a man from China talking to a seat mate about the US’s low ranking that you mentioned. However, what he also said was that even though countries like China rank higher, America is still the country that has the innovators, the imagination, the inventors.
There is hope for us, and the biggest of the reasons I voted for President Obama was of his education, and his background. The public educational system in Hawaii is going through change with his “Race for the Top” and other programs that I am not aware of.
It almost makes me wish I still had a kid in school to see the changes. Almost, but not really since life is so much simpler now with grown kids out of the house.
Aloha,
Sally
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By: Honolulu sally on June 7, 2011
at 4:12 PM
James,
In the “old” days, less people were employees,and more people worked for themselves. Farmers are of that old stock of hard work and getting hands dirty. Teenagers then weren’t called teenagers or didn’t behave like the teenagers of today. They were considered workers in the family. Congrats for living the life you do, with internet access of course!
Noah,
You have been very decent and civil in your discourse with me, and I appreciate that. You want to make a point, and I want to make a point. We both can possibly learn from each other.
This is a very local thing here, and right or wrong, it is part of my culture:
Through the years in this parlor, Auntie Jean has become a friend to me. She is like my Hawaiian sistah.
So, if you bash a friend of mine, I don’t like it. You don’t really know Jean or appreciate the experience and knowledge she brings to this place. We are not in a round table debate and the focus of the debate has to be on whatever or whoever deems most worthwhile. It’s an open mike (mic) – or seems to be by liberal nature of H&M.
Since I have just recently set my own personal policy of scrolling past those that insult me or put me down, my reading time on the comments section is much more efficient and pleasant now. It is like fast forwarding when the person with the mic is IMHO a blowhard, insulting, full of themselves, and rude. Am I really missing out on anything substantive? It really doesn’t matter to me – I am not here to solve the nation’s problems as others “know” how to do. I’m here for diversion and enjoyment, catching up with friends, sharing pie.
I don’t have thick skin. I don’t like to fight unnecessarily. I feel that I don’t have to prove how much I know or what I believe. I have come to “know” many of the regulars that post, and consider them friends. I am discriminatory in my associations.
Does that make me wrong and stupid? Maybe to some people, but those people don’t matter to me. I come here to get away from the daily mundane and sometimes pressing activities of our businesses. I really shouldn’t be spending so much time here, but during certain seasons, I do.
So Noah, take this for what it is, and we’ll see how this affects our recent interactions. I am asking you not to insult my friends. If you don’t like what or how they write, don’t read them and get upset. Scroll on past their posts. I don’t have a list of DNI (do not insult) friends, but it is probably 90% of the contributors.
If that is something you cannot do, I understand. About a week or so ago, you answered the question “why are you here when you could be anywhere else?”. I was impressed with your answer, and the decency began. I would read through your posts, and then read again so I understood your point, and I took time to respond to you.
If you keep it honest and decent without insult or derision, we can have a conversation. Insult my friends – I’ll scroll on by your name and save myself a lot of time.
I’m not making the rules for this blogsite. Those are just my own criteria for associations, with the exception of UAW. What others do is their own business.
If this ends our association, so be it. Before that happens, please accept my handshake, and best wishes for a wonderful life with your beautiful family.
Aloha and Namaste,
Sally
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By: Honolulu sally on June 7, 2011
at 3:17 PM
Noah, in military terms, I think they would call this a rout. Nice going.
I do believe you are right.
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 1:53 PM
James – I saw that. I probably should offer Palin supporters an apology for raking her over the coals, except I am at least 99 & 44/100% sure it was an absolute fluke or a setup by Palin’s handlers.
At the risk of being called Lori Jr., I offer the following: Romney ahead of Obama by 49/46%. Hmmmm…they call it a statistical dead heat, so I guess it is.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/06/obama-and-romney-in-dead-heat-poll-says/1
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 1:12 PM
An NPR station asked on “All things Considered” How accurate were Palin’s Paul Revere Comments?” Professor Robert Allison of Suffolk University told the interviewer, Melissa Block that Palin basically got it right. Block didn’t expect his answer, and she asked if other historians thought he was being too charitable toward Sarah Palin.
Allison said Sarah Palin is a lightning rod and the professor has organized many events featuring Paul Revere without national attention. ” Sarah Palin comes to town, makes a comment on what she learned and suddenly, you’re calling me to find out what I think of the American Revolution.”
\
This is a small matter, but it is one more illustration of how the reporters and politicians twist facts to fit their agendas. The Washington Post story shows another example.
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By: James on June 7, 2011
at 1:05 PM
Crickets.
Noah, in military terms, I think they would call this a rout. Nice going.
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 12:18 PM
that should read short sighted, note sited
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 10:55 AM
PFesser “Dad, I just used “devotion” in a sentence as an example and the class went “woahhh big word”… It’s scary how illiterate people are here.
It is funny your should mention that. I was having a political conversation with my neighbor and his ex wife, and their 2 sons, all Democrats, last week. The subject varied from Bush, the war, and our current economic circumstances. Now neither parent is stupid, but they are not the sharpest knifes in the drawer. Good for telling you where the next yard sale is, or what the best bingo or casino hall is, but not so much so on world events. The kids seem like high school grads but probably no collage. So to keep the conversation going I was making what I thought was a concerted attempt to keep things simple, while at the same time trying to get the truth of things out. Near the end of the conversation the ex wife says, “just because you use fancy big words doesn’t mean you are right”
I couldn’t help but chuckle. In my younger days I would have conversations with a mentor of mine on how puzzled I was at how the masses seem to think, and that “people” couldn’t possible be that naive. After all I was just an average guy, if it was that obvious to me, how is it that most people couldn’t figure it out. As I have gotten older, it seems to me my mentor was right, a person is smart, people, in general, are stupid.
I know that sounds harsh, and I mean it in the best possible way. I really don’t think people are stupid, maybe short sited would fit better. Maybe a complete inability to see the bigger picture or not able to foresee the consequences of their actions. Whatever you call it, it is still dangerous. There is a reason that ignorance of the law isn’t a valid defense.
Libs, for whatever their reason of not being able to see the big picture, are dangerous. What they do have, and are having serious repercussions that we are going to have to live and deal with. The hardest part, like with any child, is getting them to have a conversation without it degenerating . Imagine where we could be at now, if we could just go from point, counter point, and actually learn something, rather then always, always, always, degenerating into something ugly, right JEAN?
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 10:52 AM
Sorry for the fragmented posts, just how my mind works sometimes.
This article shows me something I and a few others knew all along. Obama is a politician like any other. Deceitful, manipulative, and dishonest. A far cry from the messiah that was candidate Obama.
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 10:34 AM
I will parrot what Pfesser said Wayne, thanks for the link. Really sheds some light on things.
Another character test Libs. Any of you able to step up to the plate and (A) call it like it is and (B) if you touted Obama in the past and gave him credit for this, can you admit you were wrong?
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 10:32 AM
having perused the article it may have been $4 billion, I know I got it on aol news I will see if I can’t find the piece.
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 10:28 AM
I didn’t get a chance to read your link Wayne but I remember reading an article last week that stated that after GM pays back their loan, it will have cost tax payers $14 billion.
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 10:25 AM
Wayne –
Thanks for the link. More governmental “creative financing.” This is why we need to implement my fifth proposal:
#5 All governmental accounting shall be performed according to GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles).
No more cooking the books. No more off-balance-sheet wars or entitlements. Straight-up accounting, like ALL businesses have to do.
Nice job, Wayne. Sorry, NOP. Nothing like facts to spoil the day, huh? Your butt stinging? Owwwwwchhh!!!
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 10:02 AM
Let’s not forget that Chrysler repaid their government loan today, six years early.
By: No One’s Puppet on May 24, 2011
at 8:21 PM
Go Chrysler & GM – the investment paid off!
By: delurkergurl on May 24, 2011
at 8:33 PM
—-
From the Washington Post, mind you. Hardly a Conservative Think Tank
Obama’s phony accounting on the auto industry bailout
We take no view on whether the administration’s efforts on behalf of the automobile industry were a good or bad thing; that’s a matter for the editorial pages and eventually the historians. But we are interested in the facts the president cited to make his case.
What we found is one of the most misleading collections of assertions we have seen in a short presidential speech. Virtually every claim by the president regarding the auto industry needs an asterisk, just like the fine print in that too-good-to-be-true car loan.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obamas-phony-accounting-on-the-auto-industry-bailout/2011/06/06/AG3nefKH_blog.html
LIB SPEAK = BALD-FACED LIES
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By: Wayne Perram on June 7, 2011
at 9:46 AM
Interesting email I just got from my son, who having been out of school for a year is taking a “developmental English” summer course – for us old folks, read that “bonehead” – in preparation for Real College this fall:
“Dad, I just used “devotion” in a sentence as an example and the class went “woahhh big word”… It’s scary how illiterate people are here.”
Yep, keep those teachers’ unions rolling. We have SUCH a good high school system in this country. Christ on a crutch…
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 9:19 AM
re: taxes and tough times for women.
Unrelated. Everybody had a tough time. I’m doing genealogy research on my people in the mountains of WV in the 1800’s. You ain’t seen tough times and taxes had nothing to do with it.
Point #5. Change the monetary system so that it requires backing of all paper money with hard assets. (Did I do that one?). I know the arguments about going on the gold standard, but with pure paper money the temptation for politicians to please their voters by simply printing money is too great and the repercussions don’t occur until the next fellow takes office.
Libs? The ball is in your court. You gonna make some real, concrete suggestions or are you just going to whine? (You know, I like the term “regressives” to describe these whiners. I think I’ll use it exclusively.)
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 7:56 AM
Our current difficulty also demonstrates our residual toughness and self sufficiency. Most of us are making plans and protecting ourselves with little or no government help so far.
Another thing about our women is many resemble Sarah Palin’s image if not the reality. For example, our son’s second grade teacher ran a trap line all winter to collect animals for her fur coat.
“We’re from north California, and south Alabam
and little towns all around this land
We can skin a buck and run a trap line
and country folk will survive
I can plow a field all day long
I can catch cat fish from dusk till dawn
Raise good old tomatoes and home made wine
There aren’t too many things we can’t do
Because you can’t starve us out,
and you can’t make us run
Everyone of these boys raised on shot gun
We say grace, and we say mam
and if you aren’t into that, we don’t give a damn.”
Hank Williams Junior
I think that attitude is still in everyone if we need it.
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By: James on June 7, 2011
at 7:45 AM
“People were more self sufficient then. They were also of stronger character and willing to sacrifice more…” is true to a point, but some of those old traits live on in the Heartland.
Our son’s boss said employers like Midwestern farm and small town people because they know they have a strong work ethic and are self-reliant. My cousin in Florida said her company has a similar attitude.
Farm kids, especially had jobs, and they knew the farm depended on them. If they didn’t do their jobs, the farm suffered, and someone else had to do what they failed to do as well as his/her own jobs.
Years ago, women were more respected than in later times, because everyone knew rural society could not function without them. They weren’t refined. They worked as hard as men. Women worked in the fields before modern machinery made the work easier. They had the right to vote before it became nationally acceptable.
They were as hard as the men. Wyoming’s first female doctor used a lynched horse thieve’s skull as a candy dish. When my grandfather took his son and three daughters to patrol a ditch bank at night to protect it from being cut at night, he armed them all. My aunt was the only one who ever fired a shot.
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By: James on June 7, 2011
at 7:27 AM
Sally
Those seem like ancient times. People were more self sufficient then. They were also of stronger character and willing to sacrifice a lot more. It wasn’t a good time to be a woman, so I, for one, am glad not to be of that time.
I doubt that not having a Federal income tax had anything to do with how women were treated, and I doubt upon its conception women suddenly found themselves being treated better.
In 1970 I was born yet, though pretty new to the world still.
I did know that about the Federal Reserve. Learned that by watching Zeitgeist. If you haven’t watched it I highly recommend it .
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 7:00 AM
lmfao. Still couldn’t say it could ya JEAN. Hard core Lib through and through, thanks for always being the hypocritical you. You see my age impaired friend, I didn’t ask anything about current crop, or past crop, or the priced of used tires in China. I asked if your morals are conditional or do they hold true across party lines. I see we got our answer, thanks JEAN
This is no surprise to anyone, this is just the typical MO on how Libs operate. I remember in another thread a poster listing at least 2 different times 2 Liberal Congressman (maybe women, I don’t remember) involved in some scandal. That poster asked if even one Liberal would denounce their activities. They asked for a couple days and in each case, not one, not a single Lib of all the hundreds, maybe thousands of people who post, had the moral fortitude to say that was wrong.
Sitting around moaning, groaning and complaining in typical regressive fashion about how awful things are, doesn’t solve problems.
I’ve noticed it is impossible JEAN for you to say anything that isn’t laced with petty insults. It would be interesting to see if someone as limited as yourself would be able to post an actual set of thoughts without the need to insult others to make yourself feel superior. And you do think you are better than everyone else, don’t you JEAN?
jsri, it seems to me this is right up your alley! I know you have been quite generous with your time volunteering.
Sitting up there on your high moral throne, issuing your decree to your minions to do that which you would not go out and do yourself.
Since you are already at a high vantage point JEAN, on your throne and all, why not use your superior morals and intellect to take up Pfesser’s question. Show us conservatives how its done.
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By: Noah on June 7, 2011
at 6:50 AM
re: the School Fix
“The idea is simple. We seek scientists, mathematicians and engineers who are willing to volunteer to advise on curricula, answer a classroom’s questions or visit a school – for instance, to participate in a lab or talk about what you do.”
You don’t fix a building that is crumbling from the foundation by putting flying buttresses on the side that is going to fall first or fix a flat tire by welding on a fifth wheel. I laud Scientific America’s noble experiment and as bad shape as our school system is in, I suppose anything would help, but the problems are at its foundation (remember my little lesson on “foundering,” Jean?) and it is, indeed, foundering. Perhaps we should start at the ground up and rebuild the system, rather than metaphorically rearranging the deck chairs. (as it founders)
“Sitting around moaning, groaning and complaining in typical regressive fashion about how awful things are, doesn’t solve problems.”
Hmmmm….as I recall, Jean, there is still a motion on the table (from me) for ANYONE to suggest fixes for America’s problems, and it is still sitting there. I even went first and suggested, I believe, four concrete changes that I would make.
Crickets. Not a single self-identified progressive has taken up the gauntlet, except for one piss-water weak attempt at criticising MY ideas. Talk about whiners and complainers! As the foremost critic of whining and complaining, perhaps you would like to give it a try.
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By: PFesser on June 7, 2011
at 6:09 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
But seriously, folks…..
This is the flip side of the home cyber school piece I did last night. If anybody out there is spoiling for a fight about it, fine. Feel free. It is, after all, only my opinion of what a good idea is.
This is from the May 2011 issue of Scientific American written by Mariette DiChristina, the Editor-in-Chief of the magazine.
“The National Academies last fall reported that the U.S. ranks 27 out of 29 wealthy countries in proportion of college students with degrees in science or engineering. It called on federal and state governments to improve teaching in math and science by targeting early childhood education and public school curricula and by supporting teacher training in crucial subjects. But many science teachers today, particularly in middle school and younger grades, do not have a science degree.
Enter 1,000 Scientists in 1,000 Days, which aims to help teachers and scientists to connect with one another. Scientific American is launching this program as part of its three-year (that’s the 1,000 days) Change the Equation initiatives with our parent company, Nature Publishing Group. The idea is simple. We seek scientists, mathematicians and engineers who are willing to volunteer to advise on curricula, answer a classroom’s questions or visit a school – for instance, to participate in a lab or talk about what you do.
Scientists, mathematicians, engineers: We hope you will consider participating in this worthy program by volunteering, using the form found at http://www.ScientificAmerican.com.
Teachers: We plan to be ready with a geographic listing of experts near you by the beginning of the 2011-2012 academic year.
Also on the Web site in May will be free science-related activities for parents and kids, called Bring Science Home.”
Next issue, I will tell you about another new program – this one for enthusiasts wishing to work directly with scientists on real research.”
Sitting around moaning, groaning and complaining in typical regressive fashion about how awful things are, doesn’t solve problems. I feel this and other similar educational ideas are progressive in getting the U.S. on track for the future. It will give our bright young people the incentives to succeed in innovative and productive lives not only for themselves but also for our country.
jsri, it seems to me this is right up your alley! I know you have been quite generous with your time volunteering.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 7, 2011
at 1:34 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Thanks Sally for answering for me in regard to Clinton. I did say, CURRENT CROP of middle-aged, mid-life crises politicians who have regressed to adolescent behavior and thinking………… Twice said should be enough even for those with reading deficiencies. I didn’t think it was necessary to enumerate all of them back to King David.
With the track record of public fascination for the talent and artistry of Lady Gaga, Charlie Sheen, Madonna and Mel Gibson then it’s not surprising high public office should be sought by Gingrich, Palin, Trump, et al with their sterling qualifications. Shoot, Weiners’ little sex scandal should propel him right into the White House in 2016!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 7, 2011
at 1:05 AM
You’re right Noah. In the old old days, we did not have federal income taxes, and the government managed to get along just fine.
Those seem like ancient times. People were more self sufficient then. They were also of stronger character and willing to sacrifice a lot more. It wasn’t a good time to be a woman, so I, for one, am glad not to be of that time.
Along the way, life got more complicated. It also got easier, and faster. Our currency was gold or silver backed notes.
As recent as the 1970’s (you probably weren’t born yet), gold was the currency standard and Fort Knox actually had gold in its vaults to back up the paper money in circulation. Richard (tricky Dicky) Nixon took the US off the gold standard resulting in dollars becoming worthless paper money. The value of the dollar vs other world currencies then started fluctuating rather than being set to the gold standard.
Did you know that the Federal Reserve Bank is not a federal agency? It is a conglomeration of the biggest banks, they set interest rates, policies, and they print money. They do what they want, refuse to show their accounting or be held accountable. Thomas Jefferson warned of the dangers of having a central bank system.
Enough gloom and doom. If you can though, start buying small bits of silver or gold – old coins, etc. just in case.
If you don’t mind me answering for Auntie Jean re Clinton. He was as bad as the others. Hillary should have left him.
Peace and Aloha,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 6, 2011
at 11:21 PM
Pfesser,
Oh, I get it alright.
When I answer somebody so hopelessly void here, I still have a purpose: (1) liberals hate to be laughed, and even worse hate to not be taken seriously; (2) in the event some young, “progressive” lurks and might read my rant, it’s with the intention of demonstrate how foolish these conclusions are an where it has led us; (3) answer with facts and data to circumvent the rank propaganda commonly found here.
Now, of course, you are right that to change the their individual mind of many here is a hopeless pursuit. To be that twisted in believing that a corporation would spend more with higher taxes, employ more people with higher taxes, create wealth with higher taxes is beyond mere mortal comprehension. It takes a lifetime of dumbing deviancy downward to arrive at such a conclusion. Perhaps worse, these “progressives” have somehow gotten it into their pointy heads that corporations are islands to themselves, never realizing any tax on a corporation eventually is swallowed not by the corporation, but by the consumer. If not, the layoffs are sure to follow.
You are also correct in that liberals are incredibly generous with other people’s money. Say as example some professional hypocrite like Bono, who while scolding western government for its lack of decency and generosity, and continually pointing the finger at Western governments on their moral duty to help the less fortunate (Bush selfishly granted Africa only $15billion dollars during his two terms), somehow did manage to skirt the Irish tax laws with the assistance of clever accountants and attorneys. No matter that Bono is the highest paid entertainer in the world, its not his personal responsibility, but ours. 😉 Perhaps even more galling are men like Joe Biden, John Kerry, or Al Gore, who while being multi-millionaires somehow skipped the itemized deductions of charity. Do as I say…
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By: Wayne Perram on June 6, 2011
at 10:11 PM
Untaxable wealth is the best kind. Our floods made the national news, and I learned our haze is from the Arizona fires. It reached 100 today, with only 19% humidity. It was still HOT. We have only sixteen potting soil bags left to breach the hole in our dike. Sand bagging is everyone’s new hobby.
I am so tired I can hardly think. I’m glad UAW tradesman is back.
Even worse, I have forgotten to have a mid -life crisis or even one for late life.
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By: James on June 6, 2011
at 9:01 PM
re: Weiner’s schnitzel –
My how times change. They used to be called “homewreckers” and it was all the woman’s fault. Now it’s always the man’s fault and he’s a “womanizer.” Ever hear of a “man-izer?” Thought not…
Maybe we should recognize that the nature of the beast is such that young folks have a hell of a time keeping their sexuality within the bounds of “fidelity.” Fidelity is, of course, not in their nature to begin with. See discussions on sociobiology. (It’s in a book.)
My wife said I could have a concubine any time I wanted if she cooks and cleans. She could even stay in the basement. Damn I think she means it, but now it’s not that attractive. But when I think of the chances I took thirty years ago, jesus it’s a marvel I’m still alive.
Just the nature of the beast.
*************
Wayne – it’s hopeless. You must have some basic level of understanding or arguments simply have no meaning to you. It’s like trying to understand a foot fetish if you are not into feet. You just don’t get it. Money is not these folks’ thing – at least their own. Now OTHER people’s money – they’re experts.
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By: PFesser on June 6, 2011
at 8:53 PM
So. Jean, I take it with your seemingly high moral standards that you seem to be touting, that you were not a major Bill Clinton fan with all of his infidelities? Someone with your beliefs couldn’t possibly see past such indiscretions and would never compromise your high standards to support such a candidate? I can’t imagine you would have any faith at all in Bill’s judgment, integrity, and therefore credibility in other matters? You don’t seem to me to be the type to have a double standard,. do you?
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By: Noah on June 6, 2011
at 8:49 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Yawn. (D) NY Anthony Weiner has joined the current crop of middle-aged, mid-life crises politicians who have regressed to adolescent behavior and thinking with everything from silly peccadilloes to full scale philandering. Or maybe they never matured beyond that stage in the first place. Let’s see, in alphabetical order, there’s Edwards, Ensign, Schwarzzzzzznegger, now Weiner……………….and next?
We see it all the time not only in politics, in but blog land and all walks of life. Ho hum. That is something for them to work out with their wives – – – if they can weasel out of it. However, I’m glad I don’t live in Weiner’s district and am not one of his constituents. Where there is sexual infidelity, it makes one seriously doubt that person’s judgment, integrity, and therefore credibility in other matters.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 6, 2011
at 8:13 PM
UAW! One of the absolute few that can disagree and still make me smile. You changed your avatar!
I haven’t seen or heard of anyone wishing to pay more taxes either. I’d rather the tax rates NOT go up, but if they do, it will not strangle the business if the business is taking in more than it pays out. If the business is not making much profit, the basis on which it is taxed is low, which will be lower federal and state income or corporate tax. The killer for us is the State general excise tax – this is on the gross income. In Hawaii it is currently 4% for the State and .5% for the City.
If a company I owned had $10 million in profit, I should have some finger on the pulse during the latter part of the year and start spending on equipment, tools, buildings, education for employees, bonuses, and fund retirement plans generously, for starters. Donations to favorite charities are great deductions.
Unfortunately we personally are far from having that problem. Nice problem to have though…
I do not believe the “trickle down” theory works when taxes are cut. The economic problems our nation is facing are the worse it has ever been. People like James on a farm might fare the best of us all.
I don’t read the paper or check out news much. I’ll check out weiner’s weiner. Is this anything to do with our Weiner Odermeyer (sp)?
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 6, 2011
at 7:49 PM
Hey UAW! Good to see you.
Here’s one of places you shared a while ago.
http://www.youtube.com/TVPigs#p/c/437E31B21556021F/0/xaI5KhjV8U4
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By: poolman on June 6, 2011
at 7:44 PM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/06/982666/-How-about-some-explanation-from-tech-expert-Weiner-apologists?via=siderec
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By: uawtradesman on June 6, 2011
at 6:20 PM
back to Weiner’s weiner
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/06/new.york.weiner/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
Come on Helen…speak to us…..why didn’t he resign??????
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By: uawtradesman on June 6, 2011
at 5:48 PM
I haven’t seen to many people say “I should pay more taxes”…….I wish I could pay $5 million a year……let Them take half……that would leave me with $5 million……..a lot more than I’ve got now…..
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By: uawtradesman on June 6, 2011
at 5:45 PM
Sally, there was a time before the world war that we had no federal income tax, and the government managed to get along just fine. As our government strays further and further from its intended path the cost of having our government increases.
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By: Noah on June 6, 2011
at 5:24 PM
Narrow or myopic? ** 😆 ** Look Sally, anybody that thinks raising corporate taxes will induce corporations to spend more has no basis in management, investment, or accounting, I don’t care how many “books” you keep. I don’t need to personally insult or attack that argument – you are do an outstanding job of that entirely by yourself with that perverse rationale.
Honestly Sally, the only solution for me personally is to separate myself from you and your like minded pals. You’re simply not capable, not rational, not teachable. You may be a very nice person, but like deadwood in a company that needs to let go, you need to be fired with some compensation to tie you over. If misery loves company, you have a lot of company here.
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to figure out how to detach myself from the anchor of your party’s ignorance legally without leaving the country. And I have no intention of leaving the country. So we will ride it to the bottom of the abyss together, and see which one us comes up first.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 6, 2011
at 4:18 PM
Narrow or myopic? ** 😆 ** Look Sally, anybody that thinks raising corporate taxes will induce corporations to spend more has no basis in management, investment, or accounting, I don’t care how many “books” you keep. I don’t need to personally insult or attack that argument – you are do an outstanding job of that entirely by yourself with that perverse rationale.
Honestly Sally, the only solution for me personally is to separate myself from you and your like minded pals. You’re simply not capable, not rational, not teachable. You may be a very nice person, but like deadwood in a company that needs to let go, you need to be fired with some compensation to tie you over. If misery loves company, you have a lot of company here.
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to figure out how to detach myself from the anchor of your party’s ignorance legally without leaving the country. And I have no intention of leaving the country. So we will ride it to the bottom of the abyss together, and see which one us comes up first.
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By: Tex Taylor on June 6, 2011
at 4:17 PM
James,
You are Rich!!! And the really good news is you won’t be taxed on that kind of riches!
Texas has MUCH better state tax rates and fees than California. Lots of companies are moving to Texas. Zero personal and corporate tax rate.
Each state has their own taxes. Nevada has no state tax as well as a few other states. However, everyone is still responsible for Federal taxes.
Federal taxes are the only revenue source for the USA. The greatest expense on the US is for the military, and taking us into war in 2001. Dropping everyone’s federal tax rates by GW Bush was irresponsible and, in my opinion, the beginning of a snowball of debt that picked up steam each and every day to the tune of $1 billion per week spent on the war in Iraq. It may be costing more than that currently, for those were figures I read back in 2003.
These are chaotic times we live in. Keep warm and dry, and enjoy your soybeans!
Aloha, Namaste, and Shalom,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 6, 2011
at 4:06 PM
I’m not criticizing Warren Buffet or Bill Gates. Both seem like nice men from what I have seen, and they have enriched a lot of people. One of our neighbors who bought Berkshire Hathaway stock when it was cheap has spent millions on country projects and for schollarships. He paid for most of our town and country arts organization’s legal fees in the recent law suit.
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By: James on June 6, 2011
at 3:52 PM
Noah,
I responded to your latest post – it somehow did not show up here.
Oh well, it was a rather long and boring explanation of business entities and individuals, taxes, and corporate spending.
It wasn’t that important.
It ended with words of support for you and your wife as you raise new baby together.
Aloha, Namaste, Shalom,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 6, 2011
at 3:44 PM
Honululu Sally, I mean we are rich in the number of people who have offered to help us. It is becoming every person for him/herself as far as home protection and future plans are concerned. Life is shutting down. This is a potential economic disaster bordering on catastrophy and for people to worry about us under those circumstances makes us as rich as George Baily.
We hired neighbors to help haul or combine once in a while, but we and our children worked ourselves to death to build what we have. Someday, they will get the land.
Our son works for a multinational company in California. Rumor has the company considering moving from California. They have already sent some of their workers to Texas.
Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and others have already built their fortunes, and they have the influence to ask for favors and to shelter their money. They don’t always practice what they preach.
My economics 101 professor taught that taxes restrict activities because they take money away from the folks and businesses which engage in whatever the government doesn’t like. Taxes are a revenue source but they rise to certain level until the returns diminish. Bono is a good example. His band is moving much of their business to Holland.
Regulations are as important a drag on business as taxes.
I’m happy for you and your new baby, Noah. You will enjoy the pictures as your daughter changes.
I don’t have time to look it up, but I believe John F. Kennedy was not a strong civil rights supporter in the beginning, in part for political reasons. He supported the legislation later. Bobby Kennedy authorised the FBI to spy on Martin Luther King and other civil rights leaders because they were afraid they were connected to subversive groups.
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By: James on June 6, 2011
at 3:42 PM
Excuse my rudeness by default of no response.
Call me old fashioned, but even if I disagree with or find fault with an argument that is narrow or myopic, I prefer not to respond if it seems insulting to my person or an attack on my intelligence.
I’ll keep what I think of those people to myself. I will also begin to scroll on past specific personalities that post here from this point on for my own peace of mind.
Aloha, Namaste, Shalom,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 6, 2011
at 3:38 PM
“Increasing taxes does not necessarily mean the company will hire less people. Having more profit does not mean the company will hire more employees.”
and
“VERY rich men. Not sure how many employees they have working for them. I believe though, that the majority of the people that are employed in connection with them are employed through the corporations or business entities that these rich men own.”
Please, god, tell me these people are not serious.
Case in point: My wife took our sons and a friend out to eat last night and discovered that our little town had raised its restaurant taxes, and with state taxes, etc, our tax total on our bill was 11.7%. When I pointed this out to the waitress, her reply was, yes this had happened about a month ago and “it really hurts tips, let me tell you.”
I tipped the waitress well, because it is not her fault, but I noticed as I left the restaurant that the parking lot was only half-full – at dinner time. I will not be eating dinner in my town except on rare occasion, now. My wife and I have decided to cook more at home and eat in the neighboring town when we go out. Now tell me again that the higher taxes and decreased business will not lead the restaurants to cut jobs? Huh? I am stunned. Just stunned. You can’t really mean that.
As for Apple, etc? Yes, the corporations employ the people. Corporations that would not exist except for those very rich men who started them and the business climate that let them grow.
I’m sorry, but there has to be some fundamental understanding of economics before one is just pissing in the wind.
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By: PFesser on June 6, 2011
at 2:22 PM
Sally the link is to a graph. Nice way they post links on this blog is you get to see the entire web address. in this case
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-percent-jobs-losses-in-post-wwii-recessions-2011-6
TO decide of it is safe or not one thing you can do is break down the address.
In this case http://www.businessinsider.com is the main part of this address and takes you to their main site. chart-of-the-day-percent-jobs-losses-in-post-wwii-recessions-2011-6 is a specific section on that website showing you a particular piece of information. You can google the business insider to see if it is a legit source. In this case business insider is a fairly well known site and it is safe. I clicked on it myself. Where you want to start to be suspicious is when it is a well known name but there is a prefix added to that name. For example it might say http://www.yourbusinessinsider or businessinsider1.com.
VERY rich men. Not sure how many employees they have working for them. I believe though, that the majority of the people that are employed in connection with them are employed through the corporations or business entities that these rich men own.
I don’t understand the distinction. Wealthy people own the companies that employ people. If they started the company, and in the people listed, they did, they are by default employing these people, a lot of people.
The baby is 6 weeks old and doing fine. Loves mom best at the moment but dad will do for about 40 minutes after feeding and while she sleeps.
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By: Noah on June 6, 2011
at 2:04 PM
“Steve Jobs at Apple? How about Bill Gates? Warren Buffett? How about Jeff Immelt at GE? Mark Zuckerberg at Facebook?”
VERY rich men. Not sure how many employees they have working for them. I believe though, that the majority of the people that are employed in connection with them are employed through the corporations or business entities that these rich men own.
The reason I believe that to be true is because they understand the tax code. As a rich person, there are very few deductions that can be taken from wages, passive income, distributions, company draws (if sole proprietor or disregarded LLC.)
As a business, the deductions are many. Really really many (no need to point out my grammar, thank you.) If they want to buy an airplane and hire a pilot, they would be foolish to do that as a rich man for there is no deduction for those expenses, same as for any car they own. Instead, the company buys the airplane or cars/trucks, etc. as a business asset, gets to write off that asset on a depreciating basis, and can hire the pilot as an employee of the company.
James, I am glad to see that you are rich, rich, rich! How many employees do you have, full time permanent, and/or part time seasonal? Or, did you mean that you were rich because of the friends and family that are offering you help? If the second, friendships are true riches of life.
Wayne, I don’t open links of people I don’t trust or know. I took a chance with Noah’s self sufficiency link because he reminds me of a grandnephew here. Did you get a chance to see that? I also took a look at jsri’s video of Elizabeth Warren and her talk about the death of the middle class. I learned from both, thank you.
Regarding the issue of integrated schools and such, my recall of history (and I admit to being a poor history student) is that John F. Kennedy pushed for civil rights and integrated schools.
I have had a week or two of visiting and catching up, will have to curtail these activities soon because of busy-ness.
Noah, keep on learning and keep your passion. How old is your baby now? You are beginning a whole new phase of your life filled with more highs and lows than you ever thought possible. You remind me of James – he is already a self sufficient farmer!
Aloha, Namaste, and Shalom,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 6, 2011
at 1:36 PM
My wife and I are rich, rich, rich!!.
This morning, my brother from west of Omaha called to offer help. A friend from 140 miles away did too. Just now, another neighbor told my wife he would help if we needed it after he got his soybeans out of the bins. He thinks 2/3 of his land will be flooded. That makes seven people and the friends who helped us load up their pickup and car on Saturday.
We are managing by ourselves so far. It is 97 degrees and on the way to 100. My wife and I are patching the part of our dike cleared away for a driveway for semis with sixty pound potting soil bags.
People aren’t telling us much. A woman on a DOT help line and someone on another call center told me we need to take winter coats with us. My wife thought of that first.
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By: James on June 6, 2011
at 12:23 PM
The real Obama economy and recovery….here, defend this Honolulu, Juneau and the rest of the lib masses, and tell me again how Obama has a handle on what needs to be done for another belly laugh?
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-percent-jobs-losses-in-post-wwii-recessions-2011-6
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By: Wayne Perram on June 6, 2011
at 10:57 AM
Taxes prompted our farm business to spend more money at times, but it was to defer the expropriation. In the end, the tax is an expense which diminishes a business’s ability to distribute money to the economy through purchases and hiring.
When taxes rise, businesses imitate John Gault. Bono, the entertainer has a public relations problem. He has been advocating higher taxes to help the poor. Now, protesters are complaining that the band has moved much of its business operation to Holland to escape an unfavorable change in Irish tax laws. The Rolling Stones, Rod Stewart, and Marc Bolan of TRex were several British entertainers who moved out because of high taxes in the past.
A British oil company will not exploit a new natural gas site because higher energy taxes are an incentive to do nothing until prices rise. The British are already spending over $9.00 per gallon for gasoline.
About half of the new jobs last month were summer jobs at McDonalds. This is no longer Bush’s economy. Obama owns it.
Uncertainty also kills jobs, and the people who hire are afraid of the future.
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By: James on June 6, 2011
at 10:19 AM
Pfesser, hide it in a book. 😆 I’ve see your sense of humor much like mine.
I’m having a hard time remembering to revert to my alter ego, but that’s off the record.
——-
Since I want to go out laughing, what better place to be than here reading liberal dogma, including their established set of facts? The ‘Easy Rider’ methodology of economics.
I think there’s real genius demonstrated here at M&H. It’s the kind of genius that gave us the incomparably stupdendous Barack Obama – the same genius that says business experience isn’t necessary, wealth creation isn’t necessary, military and foreign diplomatic experience isn’t necessary, even morality, liberty, freedom, and standards aren’t necessary if you have a charismatic enough leader capable of making each and every decision for you. A leader that can read prepared speeches from a teleprompter in front of Styrofoam Roman Columns on football fields, and with a wink of his eye millions swoon. The kind of Woodstock genius, where we all live in peace and harmony at the commune.
I mean, genius on par with Nancy Pelosi’s declaration that the fastest, “bestest” way to get the economy moving again and people “spending” more is more unemployment benefits. Or the kind of genius that says print some more money at the Treasury.
Of course, I always wanted to ask liberals, “why don’t we forgo taxes altogether and just print more money when we need it?” Remember what happened to those communes when everybody got tired of being dirty and hungry? Vanished like a fart in the wind.
One of the things I learned much too late in life, is when there is a question of legitimacy, take the problem to an extreme and see how much truth the solution holds.
Let’s take Sally’s hypothesis above that increasing taxes does indeed encourage businesses “to spend” more because they have less profit to be taxed. I will assume we can ignore for the moment, the concepts “stock holder”, “capital” and “retained earnings”, “return on investment”, and “risk.”
Using Sally’s logic if true, what we should be doing then is taxing every company 100% of its profits. In other words, growth would be maximized and utopia reached if every company in America were able to declare no profit and/or operated as non-profit.
Now, getting back to this universe and hard fast rules of economic gravity, I’m not sure who is going to step up to the plate to assume the risk of failure for zero return, but I’m sure Sally and company will be the first to volunteer to step up to the plate.
So Sally, why don’t we start with your husband’s company first?
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By: Wayne Perram on June 6, 2011
at 8:59 AM
Pfesser, hide it in a book. 😆 I’ve see your sense of humor much like mine.
Since I want to go out laughing, what better place to be than here reading liberal dogma, including their established set of facts? The ‘Easy Rider’ methodology of economics.
I think there’s real genius demonstrated here at M&H. It’s the kind of genius that gave us the incomparably stupdendous Barack Obama – the same genius that says business experience isn’t necessary, wealth creation isn’t necessary, military and foreign diplomatic experience isn’t necessary, even morality, liberty, freedom, and standards aren’t necessary if you have a charismatic enough leader capable of making each and every decision for you. A leader that can read prepared speeches from a teleprompter in front of Styrofoam Roman Columns on football fields, and with a wink of his eye millions swoon. The kind of Woodstock genius, where we all live in peace and harmony at the commune.
I mean, genius on par with Nancy Pelosi’s declaration that the fastest, “bestest” way to get the economy moving again and people “spending” more is more unemployment benefits. Or the kind of genius that says print some more money at the Treasury.
Of course, I always wanted to ask liberals, “why don’t we forgo taxes altogether and just print more money when we need it?” Remember what happened to those communes when everybody got tired of being dirty and hungry? Vanished like a fart in the wind.
One of the things I learned much too late in life, is when there is a question of legitimacy, take the problem to an extreme and see how much truth the solution holds.
Let’s take Sally’s hypothesis above that increasing taxes does indeed encourage businesses “to spend” more because they have less profit to be taxed. I will assume we can ignore for the moment, the concepts “stock holder”, “capital” and “retained earnings”, “return on investment”, and “risk.”
Using Sally’s logic if true, what we should be doing then is taxing every company 100% of its profits. In other words, growth would be maximized and utopia reached if every company in America were able to declare no profit and/or operated as non-profit.
Now, getting back to this universe and hard fast rules of economic gravity, I’m not sure who is going to step up to the plate to assume the risk of failure for zero return, but I’m sure Sally and company will be the first to volunteer to step up to the plate.
So Sally, why don’t we start with your husband’s company first?
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By: Tex Taylor on June 6, 2011
at 8:56 AM
A North Sioux City, SD. massage therapist is helping sand bagging volunteers by massaging their sore backs.
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By: James on June 6, 2011
at 8:06 AM
Thanks Mikat too.
I’m not defending Sarah Palin. I’m re emphasizing what Paul Revere really did. Sarah’s comments about Paul Revere, were barely coherent, but she was closer to the truth than her critics. The Boston Herald. com has a headline, “You Betcha! She was right.”
The episode was a testimony to the value of luck. The musket fire which frightened the British after Revere’s warning were merely tavern patrons discharging their weapons before they entered to drink.
I wish everyone could run a small business. It teaches that the laws of economics are as immutable as the laws of nature. Most businesses survive because of skill, hard work, and luck.
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By: James on June 6, 2011
at 7:17 AM
“The rich don’t provide jobs?”
Are you effing kidding me?
How many people do you think work for Steve Jobs at Apple? How about Bill Gates? Warren Buffett? How about Jeff Immelt at GE? Mark Zuckerberg at Facebook?
I have never in my life been given a job by a poor man. Not once.
Jesus Wayne and Noah. It’s hopeless. But at least I know how to hide stuff from these people. Put it in a book.
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By: PFesser on June 6, 2011
at 6:48 AM
Noah said:
“Actually Jean, I believe it was the democrats that fought things like integrated schools and such.”
Nice pickup, Noah! Liberals are so very fond of talking about the Republicans’ “Southern Strategy” but fail to mention that the South used to be called the “Solid South” – which meant solid Democrat. After Lincoln (a Republican) freed the blacks, much of the white South remained, understandably, quite resentful – and Democrat. It was that solid voting bloc of Southern Democrats that did most of the heavy lifting to block desegregation and development of civil rights legislation, that was for the most part being proposed by the Republicans. (Anybody remember George Wallace? Democrat. Remember Lester Maddox handing out axe-handles to beat the protestors with? Yep – you guessed it. Democrat.) Feh.
The “Southern Strategy” was a conscious attempt later by the Republicans to pick up these resentful Southern Democrats and get them to change their party – which of course they did.
If Jean is an old girl – as she says she is – and a historian – as she says she is – then I can only conclude that miscue is either due to the forgetfulness of old age or is intentional.
No, the Democrats’ history on civil rights is nothing to be proud of.
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By: PFesser on June 6, 2011
at 6:15 AM
uawtradesman, and poolman, thanks for the encouragement. I minimized the page, so uaw’s comments are the last I have read. I hope you share more of your wisdom if I leave.
poolman, I like the analogy. It is sort of being like an Okie, isn’t it. Of course, the Dust Bowl was more wide spread and catastrophic, but there must be similarities. As you wrote, we can’t fool mother nature.
Another striking feature of this situation is not even the experts know what will happen.
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By: James on June 6, 2011
at 6:00 AM
So Noah, you have a different perspective on what taxes do to businesses.
A few years ago I wrote about my opinion of taxes – the bottom line was that I didn’t mind paying taxes 1) because I am grateful and glad for the services I benefit from, i.e. 44¢ to mail a letter across the Pacific to New Hampshire, and 2) it is the cost of living in this great country of ours.
I don’t know what business you are in, but there are 2 excellent books for contractors by Ellen Rohr. “How Much Should I Charge?” and “Where Did My Money Go?” Our electrician highly recommended them. They are rather thin books and I found them to be easy reads with good advice.
For the last 10 years we have had the same tax rates in place. Our profit has not been determined by the tax rates. 2009 was great for business, 2010 was near break even, and the first 5 months of 2011 have been a complete turnaround with brisk steady business. The biggest challenge has been getting banks to loan money for improvements, investments, and mortgages.
At business seminars that I attend, we are told that the tax code is full of ways for businesses to reduce the bottom line which reduces the taxes owed. It is true. Whenever we are faced with a large tax liability during annual filings, we boost the retirement contributions for the employees and ourselves. That way we can offset the tax we owe by funding theirs and our nest eggs.
As for social programs to help the under privileged, I have mixed feelings. I do not have answers to that dilemma. In today’s society, everyone feels as though they are entitled. I am old enough to be able to receive social security benefits soon. However, actuaries have projected those funds to expire in 2036. As a young man with a young family, you will probably not have social security checks coming to you when you are of retirement age. I hope you are currently funding your business retirement fund to the max and investing it well.
I was not a very good student of civic studies, and my simple definition of our government is that it is the governing body of our country. I remember 3 arms of government – make the laws, interpret the laws, and enforce the laws.
I don’t believe politicians should vote one way or the other just because their parties tell them to. Instead of brainstorming and coming up with workable solutions together, our politicians act like gangs that have to stick with their own gang, just to win.
Auntie Jean, Milken’s “schools” sound like mind bending manipulation. I remember when MTV first hit the television and young people were drawn like flies to the screen. Rupert Murdoch was interviewed and asked about “controlling the minds” of our young people. His response was “I OWN the minds” of our youth. It is scary. Maybe though, in this day and age, it is the way to educate. We are a techno society.
Aloha, Namaste, Shalom,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 6, 2011
at 3:05 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Depending on where your value system is…..
This is a verbatim quote from the June 12, 2011 issue of Bloomberg Businessweek magazine. Maybe you can find the entire article for yourself.
“Ten year-old ____ is wearing headphones and staring into a computer screen, looking very much like an underage call center employee. It’s a weekday morning – a school day – and this is what school looks like for _____and her two brothers, ____, 11, and ____, 8. Holed up in the basement of their family’s Poconos, PA, home, they watch lessons on a screen, typing answers to questions as their mother, ____, a former U.S. Army Reserve Sergeant, hovers nearby. The children attend Agora Cyber Charter School, managed by K12, the largest U.S. operator of taxpayer-funded online schools and part-owned by billionaire Michael Milken. [Charter Schools are given X number of dollars per head that would otherwise go to public schools per student.]
In a development that would have been unheard of a decade ago, about 200,000 U.S. school children are enrolled in full-time online programs. Eleven years after its founding, K12 has 81,000 students in 27 states and the District of Columbia. If it were a school district, it would be one of the largest in America. K12 expects to generate $500 million in revenues this year – it earned a $21.5 million profit last year – and its stock has doubled in value since the company went public in December 2007. The financial success of K12 has shown that Milken – the 1990s junk-bond king, convicted felon (securities fraud), and health-care philanthropist – has figured out how to profit from public schools. But while online education may have paid off for Milken and other investors, it’s less clear that K12 is benefiting its students.”
Personally, I think this is scary. But what do I know? I’m just a pregressive lib’ral Old Broad. But of course, Atlas Shrugged.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
P. S. Tomorrow, the flip side of the education question.
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By: Jean on June 6, 2011
at 1:22 AM
Sally, your just playing a shell game with the tax thing. Bottom line it eats into profits. 13 year business owner myself. The rest is just a lot of words that really have nothing to do with the subject.
As a business owner when Libs come into power I know I need to reel in my spending and prepare for the sucking sound coming from DC way. I understand about making business expenditures for tax purposes but that is not what we are talking about, waters seem to be getting muddied up around here.
The government was never intended to run our lives. This Liberal ideal that our money belongs to them and that we have to pay for tax breaks is absurd. I believe the Liberals have perverted what the role of the government is supposed to be in our lives. The government was not intended to be the provider of our social services.Tell me if any of this ring a bell?
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America”
NO where in this does it say anything about the governments role in social services. No where does it say we are entitled to services provided to us by our government. The purpose of government is to protect the people from threats, both within and without. Government is there to create and enforce the laws of our society.
In essence the government is there to create the basic framework for which we can live our lives as we see fit. The government is a tool that allows us all to interact and live with each other in a civilized way. The purpose of the government is not to dictate to us how we will live our lives. The government doesn’t own its people, the people own the government. Liberals would have you believe it is the other way around.
The government doesn’t know how to do it better than we do. Show me one thing, other than what the above shows it is “supposed” to do, that this government does well? Health Care? pshh. Social Security? pshh. They meddled in the banks and financial sector, and look what happened there. Anyone else remember $20,000 hammers? $30,000 toilet seats? For every one example you can show me that the government did a half assed job( the best we can hope for), I will show you 10 where they completely screwed the pooch.
jsri, your ignorance aside, I stand by what i said. Show me the legislation past or present that is singling out saying if your from x-y-z-race we are curtailing your right to vote based on that factor.
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By: Noah on June 6, 2011
at 12:34 AM
UAW, Aloha!!! Nice to “see” you and hear you still kicking those tires! Same delightful (lol) messages.
Noah, your statement that very few Libs own businesses is true. Very few Conservatives own businesses too. The majority of people on ALL parties are employees. It would be interesting to see some research about percentages of business owners by political party.
As one of the few Liberals that own a business, I’d like to add something to the discussion.
The biggest factor in profit in a business is the state of the economy. Lots of money and spending = more business = more profit. The ability to hire is not so much determined by profit than it is by busy-ness. The more work/contracts/orders equals more workers needed. The less work/contracts/orders equals less workers retained.
I also don’t think it is the rich that provide the jobs, other than maid, chauffeur, butler, etc. Businesses provide the jobs. Busy businesses.
You wrote that taxes are part of the expense of running a company, as well as employees. That is true, but not entirely. State excise taxes (sales taxes) are considered expenses, and employees are expenses. The employment taxes as well as FICA and employee federal and state income taxes are expenses.
However, federal and state taxes on a business are not expenses. They are taxes on profits – profits are determined after expenses are subtracted from income.
For employees (anyone with a paycheck), they are paid income (wages). That income is taxed with federal, FICA, and state taxes. The net after those taxes is the take home pay, and usually deposited into a checking account.
For businesses, income (payments, sales, commissions, rents, etc.) is received and the full amount is deposited into the business account. The business then spends for cost of goods, insurance, labor (employees), employee benefits, vehicles, office equipment, education, etc, etc. Whatever is left is profit. Profit is then taxed when filing annual returns.
Put more simply, an employee earns income, is taxed, and the remainder is what they get to spend.
A business earns income, spends on business expenses, and the remainder is what gets taxed.
Increasing taxes does not necessarily mean the company will hire less people. Having more profit does not mean the company will hire more employees.
Increasing taxes will encourage businesses to spend more because then they have less profit to be taxed.
Just my perspective as a business owner’s wife who does the books. Lesson is, have a business.
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 5, 2011
at 11:34 PM
Noah
As soon as affirmative action came into play all those southern “democrats” became Republicans.
And Auntie Jean specifically described the folks who are in danger of having their voting rights taken away as “People of Hispanic descent, including multi-generational-born-and- raised-Hispanic-Americans.”
Sorry about your`reading problem.
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By: jsri on June 5, 2011
at 10:33 PM
Yeah Auntie Pendejo! Right on! Like as recently as November 2010, when the American society voiced its loud disapproval of all those uneducated, cheating, regressive teabaggers.
I sure hope the American society at large stays on message seventeen months from now!
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By: Wayne Perram on June 5, 2011
at 10:03 PM
I also find it disturbing Jean finds someone wanting to stop an illegal alien from voting as a dirty trick.
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 9:57 PM
Actually Jean, I believe it was the democrats that fought things like integrated schools and such.
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 9:55 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Lori, re: yours of | June 5, 2011 at 6:23 am in the Kitchen. I wish you would put the clip up here in M&H’s.
There is an awful lot of data there gleaned from the last census by dedicated people working hours and hours to compile it. Redistricting is one of those topics that have little interest for the Fox/teabagger set to make noise about. However, it is of vital interest in shaping the National Congressional and State Legislative Districts for voting purposes. The demographics in different districts could well determine the outcome of the 2012 elections at both levels.
The regressives have a long history of, if they can’t win seats fair and square, then the Karl Rove types crawl out from under their rocks and try all the dirty tricks in their playbooks of end runs to “win”. For example, this is exactly the kind of thing that has kicked off the “illegal alien” donnybrook in the Southwest for so long. People of Hispanic descent, including multi-generational-born-and- raised-Hispanic-Americans, generally vote Democratic. Regressives don’t want that!
Other examples are trying to gut the unions in some states and underfund education. The last thing they want is an educated and informed electorate. An uneducated and naïve electorate is much easier to control with the “messages” of the likes of Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, et al, telling them what to think and how to vote, no matter how off-the-wall the “message” is.
Then there are many other kinds of direct voter intimidation. Requiring photo ID to vote, as if voter registration were not enough. Regression could also take the route of demanding post-Civil War tactics of a literacy test for voters. Hey, they managed to keep slaves and women out of the voting booths until progressives demanded and received liberty, justice and equality for all in our democracy.
Fortunately, I just don’t think the American society at large is buying the regressive line of bullshit anymore.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 5, 2011
at 9:36 PM
I thought this was obvious sorry. I will get even more basic. Taxes are part of the expense of running a business. It takes away from the companies profits. An employe is also an expense. Both have to be paid for. Not paying taxes or not playing an employe, which do you think would happen first? If you increase taxes on a business, that leaves less available for a company to spend on hiring more people.
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 9:32 PM
Noah said above:
If you increase the bottom line of a business through taxes, the direct result is they are able to pay less people.
Like much of what he says it makes no sense at all.
How do you increase the bottom line through taxes?
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By: Anonymous on June 5, 2011
at 9:19 PM
dedicate should be deficit
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 8:45 PM
The first link on government doing it better, they disqualified the entire opinion piece right from the beginning when they said “. When not handicapped by regulation” Since when does the government not regulate everything they do?
Again I Am forced to bring up one of my favorite examples. Of the hundreds of eateries in the DC area only one has never shown a profit, and that is the government run cafeteria. With all the $ in DC every other restaurant have incredible profit margins. If they cant run a cafeteria, how on earth will they run anything else?
The second is a false and misleading premise. I’ve never heard the phrase, the rich create jobs. The traditional argument is weather it comes from big business or not. 80% of all job growth comes from small business.
This article was written intentionally this way to try and illustrate that if your rich, you are evil by default.
“Republicans act like taxes are the kryptonite/Achilles heel/Samson haircut to their mythical hero job creators.
Since so few Libs seem to be business owners here is a quick lesson for free. Business operates and continues t to be able to operate on profits. This means their bottom line has to be less than what they bring in. Their ability to hire people is based on the ability to generate enough profits to pay for them. If you increase the bottom line of a business through taxes, the direct result is they are able to pay less people. It is no more complicated than that.
“Despite the soaring deficit due to unpaid-for tax cuts”
The perfect sentence to sum up the Liberal mind set. For a tax cut to be unpaid for, the money would have to be the governments in the first place. This sentences shows that in the Liberal mind, all your money belongs to them, and anything they give back has to be accounted for, ie “paid for.” Sorry kids, I am calling bullshit on this one.
“We’re trying to package this in a way where the American people understand”
I love this article, yet another statement that shows the Liberal mind set. You the public are too stupid to understand what we do here in DC. That is why you need bigger government because you are helpless without us. Don’t worry, we will dumb it down so you can understand it though.
If the rich were the job creators – they have failed at the task (ahem, 9 percent unemployment)
Aside from the false premise, we are at a 9% unemployment rate because of the failing of the financial and banking services. Who was running that part of our country? Barney Frank ran House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd ran Senate Banking Committee. Sorry kids, Bullshit.
“The Democrats are pegged as the party of “tax and spend” – but at least when you TAX and spend – the spending is paid for.”
Aha ha ha ha. What is our dedicate at? Obama spent what, 1.4 trillion his first year in office? This one made me chuckle.
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 8:41 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Poolman, Iv’e been hearing about the AZ wild fires on the National news. I hope you are out of harms way. As if it were not already hot enough there.
Keep us abreast of developments from your perspective, OK?
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 5, 2011
at 8:07 PM
OceanGypsi, oh my word!
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By: delurkergurl on June 5, 2011
at 7:37 PM
Why You Want the Government Running Health, Education and Defense
The Rich Don’t Create Jobs – We Do
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By: delurkergurl on June 5, 2011
at 7:35 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43285196/ns/politics/
Silly me! I didn’t realize we were in a competition. I thought we were a nation of over 300 million lives that needed a competent leader….
You can take the beauty contestant out of the pageant. But, you can’t take the pageant out of the beauty contestant. What was I thinking?
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By: OceanGypsi on June 5, 2011
at 7:08 PM
Morning all.
Good information jsri and alaskapi. James, I’m somehow reminded of “the Grapes of Wrath” by your account. All the hard-working generations losing their trades that they have worked so hard to make a decent living from. Passing their skills and knowledge of the trade to the young ones. There are plenty of the “old ways” falling by the wayside as we transition into this brave new world.
Floods and drought have been “normal” conditions for thousands of years. When man tries to control these natural occurences, it always has consequences. We have not improved on nature in any field, IMHO.
There is much injustice everywhere. The more laws we create, the more unruly we become. History repeats. Heck look what happened to all great civilizations. Read the Old Testament and see how the nation of “God’s chosen” corrupted and fell, over and over again. And they had a clear set of instructions. We humans cannot govern ourselves successfully over any long periods of time.
Of course we don’t want Elizabeth Warren in any position of power. It would slow the plan of rape and plunder of this once great nation. The wealth is being sucked from the land. If you listen hard enough, you can hear the moaning and weeping. Everyone should be flying their American flags upside down. This nation is in its greatest distress.
I’m reminded today of how it’s been our arrogance and greed that put us in the place where most of the country is suffering much today. The “American Dream” was just that. And for many it has become a nightmare. It is a false Utopian ideal based on material gain rather than enlightenment. Silly humans.
“Come hell or high water…”
Well, here we are.
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By: poolman on June 5, 2011
at 10:45 AM
James..
I hope everything turns out OK for you….
I see that I was mentioned a few days ago…….(thank you)…….as a grumpy old neighbor……..I used to talk about “kicking the tires”…….and talking about how the left does the same exact thing that the mean,nasty,braindead,inbred,right does…….(making the left?)……..caught a lot of crap but still haven’t changed my mind….
keep giving them hell Prof.
Just remember”Sticks and stones will break my bones but whips and chains excite me”
any chance the next post will be about Weiner’s weiner
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By: uawtradesman on June 5, 2011
at 10:31 AM
Thanks, Noah, we will try that if all else fails.
We promised our paper carrier two bags of food when she arrives. She thinks if this plays out, she will move to Omaha.
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By: James on June 5, 2011
at 10:08 AM
A testimate to how corrupt and broke our system has become
https://www.facebook.com/notes/texas-civil-rights-project/the-wrong-way-to-right-a-wrongful-conviction/10150212066423430
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 10:00 AM
James, put a tranquilizer in a sausage or other treat and keep watch on her to take a nap.
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 9:30 AM
The lady who delivers our Sunday paper is on the phone telling us she doesn’t know when she will get it too us. Her schedule is becoming chaotic.
“I’m waking up at the start of the end of the world
but its feeling like every morning before
the cars are moving about a half a mile per hour
and all of the passengers are waving good bye
Can you tell me what was really special about me
all of this time”
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By: James on June 5, 2011
at 9:30 AM
Thanks alsakapi. Continued best wishes for Mageen, Craig, and their families.
So far, the great flood is more imagionary than real, but it is creating a profound psychological, economic, and social effect. We are devolving into small tribal enclaves as parts of the valley depopulate. I bought strawberries from a local orchard yesterday and counted 28 pickups pulling flat bed trailers filled with furniture. Neighbors are helping people already flooded in low places near the river.
The farming season is over. Farms and good looking crops have been abandoned. A neighbor said the coops look like fall harvest with long lines. One neighbor said he hauled 150,000 bushels of grain in the past week.
Another neighbor has erected a four foot dike around his farmstead. The town north of us has hired contractors to put a dike around the town.
Another town is deserted under county orders. No mail will be delivered, and the lights go off tomorrow.
My wife and I have been busy moving stuff. A friend and his son surprised us with an offer to take some of our valuables to higher ground. They have been moving their own things and his daughter’s belongings for the past three days.We worked for four hours, and they offered to come back.
We still can’t get our dog to put more than her shoulder inside the car. As my wife says, she is more guard dog than pet. A neighbor with a boat offered to watch her if we don’t have time to acclimatise her to the car. One of my wife’s teaching friends offered to loan us a crate, but she seems to be gone, now.
My wife wants to get out by the middle of the week when the corps double the amount of water released. I want to wait longer and see what happens. As our neighbor said, our diked tributary streams are not meant to be resevours. If the water stays high for months as predicted, some dikes will fail. The corps guesses apparently don’t take that risk into account, and of course their calculations don’t factor in unknowns such as heavy thunderstorms.
My wife is playing the organ at church this morning, and she thinks it will be her last time this summer. I think we might still be here a week from now. Now, that as of yesterday, our grain bins are empty, we may get some sixty pound bags of potting soil and use them as sand bags on the part of our dike removed for truck traffic.
I took some pictures of corn and soy beans on our farm west of the interstate. The widow of the friend who died the night of the rapture is also gone. She moved out last night. She and her husband built a nice home from nothing. The flowers, garden, and green house are as beautiful as ever, but they will soon be gone. I’m glad our friend died. He and his wife spent their lives building what they had, and it would have broken his heart. His wife, like the rest of us will be mourning our losses when the crisis is over. There is no time now.
So far, I am counting our blessings. We are in a much better condition than many people. Neighbors worry about us and offer to help. Once we take care of ourselves, maybe we can return the favor. Our daughter and son in law are willing to put up with us for the duration. We are blessed.
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By: James on June 5, 2011
at 9:07 AM
I saw part of that Sarah Palin explanation on the news, PFessor. That’s why I posted what seems to be the true story based on Paul Revere’s recollection. Her account was pretty garbled and incoherent, but she did stumble on the fact that Paul warned the British unit, they would soon be under attack. Paul was bluffing. The ringing bell was due to Revere’s and others’ warnings, but only a general alert, not the warning of an immediate threat. The musket fire was a fortuitious accident.
Howard Dean said that today Sarah Palin could win an election against Barack Obama, though he doesn’t think Republicans will nominate her. With what we are enduring now, you ought not be free of at least one nightmare.
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By: James on June 5, 2011
at 8:29 AM
James- be safe!
Mageen and Craig- continued best wishes for you and spouses!
————
How do we grow these goofballs?
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/05/26/company-sells-gun-oil-laced-with-pig-fat-to-deny-muslims-paradise/?ondntsrc=MBQ110670HTW&newsletter=HW060211
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By: alaskapi on June 5, 2011
at 8:24 AM
Guess I don’t see the big deal in this clip. If she were running for office, I would be voting for a statesman, not a historian. End of the day the only reason she is still getting so much attention is that the left view her as a threat. Otherwise why bother.
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 8:17 AM
James –
You had mentioned Sarah Palin and Revere. Don’t go there. Gryphen has about the most hilarious video of Bill Maher, where he runs a video clip of Palin waxing eloquent about Paul Revere. It seems she thinks he rode about, warning the British that they were not going to implement gun control! Or something like that. And then he fired warning shots and rang bells.
She really, really outdid herself. Even I, who consider SP to be one of the biggest obstacles to the rehabilitation of the GOP, and thought I had seen it all, was stunned. Just stunned.
Do NOT be drinking anything when you see this:
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/06/bill-maher-and-his-panel-have-field-day.html
The professor’s hilarity pretty much says it all.
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By: PFesser on June 5, 2011
at 6:36 AM
Guess we agree to disagree then. Personally I feel the UN is worth backing. I think when we took him down the first time, we had an obligation to ourselves and the world that we hold him to the conditions we laid out for him. Thankfully at the time we had someone in government willing to step up and take care of those responsibilities. When you are talking about a mad man who is shooting at our military, violating the terms of his surrender, and the very real possibility of WMD’s that we know he would use to kill millions, I guess for me our moral obligation is clear. Sadly in this day and age, morality seems to be a very subjective ideal.
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By: Noah on June 5, 2011
at 5:32 AM
Noah,
Saddam Hussein was a despot and despicable. He did a lot of inhumane things.
I don’t believe going to war was justified though. There are other despots that are despicable in the world and we did not go to war against them because they were bad rulers.
We may have won that war, albeit with huge financial burden and loss of lives, on all sides.
Goodnight, be well,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 5, 2011
at 3:59 AM
Wayne –
Warren has a pretty interesting story. As I understand it, her dad was in business with a guy who essentially ran off with all the money and put her family in dire straits. She married, had (I think one) kid and basically worked her way up. I got familiar with her about ten years ago when she and her daughter co-wrote The Two-Income Trap. I was so impressed with it that I keep extra copies still to this day and give them to people who are interested. Just gave one away last week.
I think you are right about the college education. It is in no way a ticket to higher earnings nowadays. I have thought that my two boys might be a lot better off working as plumbers and taking the money I put away for their college and using it as a basis for long-term investing and retirement. It doesn’t take much money compounding for forty years to end up a LOT of money. Dollar-wise I am almost sure that is the better road. I have a step-daughter who is still over $100k in debt from undergrad and law school. If we get a few bucks ahead I think we will try to help her whittle that down. The money is worth a lot more to her now in the form of debt payment than it is after I’m dead and she has lived a life of deprivation.
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By: PFesser on June 4, 2011
at 7:31 PM
Pfesser,
Did you notice Elizabeth Warren left out one huge cost? 🙂 It was interesting and I agreed with most of what she spoke, but she left out the highest inflationary cost item of all. And how convenient for her to do so, since it is her livelihood that is dependent upon it. She touches upon the perception to get a college degree, but never makes mention what it costs to get a college degree.
This lecture is interesting but incomplete. Because I will pay more for one child to attend four years of a private university that I did on my first and second home.
Ms. Warren picks up on mortgage, health, child care – but she completely missed the highest big ticket inflationary item – her field.
And I can guarantee you our total tax burden on an inflation adjusted basis meaning less tax home pay: federal, state, city, fees, ancillary taxes, services rendered are much higher on a per dollar cost inflation basis than they were 40 years ago. I can prove that easily be my own city and county sales tax.
1970 – 4 cents on the dollar
2011 – 8.571 cents on the dollar
My property taxes are about 28% higher than they were even five years ago. My sewer rate about three times as much per gallon that ten years ago. And that is certainly not unique to my town, as virtually every city in America has followed the same path.
Libs always refuse to tell the entire picture. It that irritates me to know end. Few will believe me on this, but at least 50% of all college degrees are worthless for earning wages.
We are moving from a three class society to a two class society, no doubt. That’s a danger to everyone. But higher education is the next bubble to burst – and it is long overdue. Elizabeth Warren won’t get tagged – but her successors will.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 4, 2011
at 5:20 PM
Sybil Luddington. Yup. There was a girl riding that night to help all the others such as Paul Revere warn the colonists. She got stopped by the redcoats and managed to talk her way out of their control and continue on with her mission.
Delurker Girl: husband has the ability to still eat like a horse but he is now much, much more careful about his choices. He was told in no uncertain terms not to go on any kind of a diet. He needs to ingest certain foods that will help the chemo.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 4, 2011
at 4:56 PM
just because:
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By: alaskapi on June 4, 2011
at 3:15 PM
My wife had an amazing idea.
Joe Biden should, before the next election, develop “health concerns” and drop out as the VP candidate. Warren, rather than running against Bo, should then be selected as his VP candidate. She would be a shoo-in for the next prez after Obama’s second term.
If she would run, I would quit my job and campaign for her full time.
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By: PFesser on June 4, 2011
at 2:37 PM
jsri –
Thanks for the Warren video. I cannot name a single person in Washington for whom, if their guts were on fire, I would walk across the road to piss them out. And that includes Bo.
Except for Elizabeth Warren. She is great and honest and true. She personifies integrity. And she frightens the power brokers and money-changers in a way that only the truly honest can frighten the truly corrupt. It is a real shame she cannot get into a position of serious power; we need her in a most desperate way.
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By: PFesser on June 4, 2011
at 2:33 PM
Elizabeth Warren – Collapse of the middle class
And this was three years ago.
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By: jsri on June 4, 2011
at 1:48 PM
Yes, delurkergurl, jobs are being added. I see your point. As we know, both Obama and Bush take a bad rap on the jobs statistics. The government does not create private industry jobs. The government only creates conditions for job growth and hopes for the best.
Our problem is we are aiming at a moving target. Not only does the economy need to replace lost jobs, but it needs to create new ones to compensate for our growing population.
I appolgize for using Danica Patric to illustrate my point. Danica was leading the Indie 500 race and she had floored her accelerator. She had built a wide lead, but her car was slower than several racers behind. Like our economy, she made progress, as she lost ground. Eventually, a driver passed her.
As with Danica, the wolves are gaining on us.
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By: James on June 4, 2011
at 8:23 AM
Sarah Palin briefly discussed Paul Revere, and so did some reporters.
Paul never yelled “The British are coming” because they all considered themselves to be British. He yelled “The regulars are coming!”
The British goal was to capture Sam Adams and John Hancock and to disarm people they encountered along the way.
Two regulars tried to stop Revere and he eluded them. He reached the house where Adams and Hancock were staying and warned them about the British regulars. At that point, he had fulfilled his primary mission.
Revere and a man named Dawes left and ran into Dr. Prescot. They decided to warn all of the people on their route. A group of Regulars stopped them at another road block. Dr. Prescot, who was familiar with the terrain jumped a stone wall and escaped. Revere and Dawes were captured, but Dawes managed to escape.
British officers interrogated Revere and were astonished to learn he knew more about their mission than they did. He also told them he had been warning the countryside and that when they reached Lexington 500 armed men would soon be there to meet them. Of course, Revere was bluffing.
The officers told Revere to mount his horse and the soldiers rode toward Lexington. They heard a shot, and Revere told them it was a signal. This made the British very nervous. A few minutes later, they heard the crash of a lot of musketry. The Lexington town hall bell began to ring. Johnathon long, who had been captured earlier ” said ‘the town’s alarmed, and you are all dead men.”
The British officers talked nervously among themselves and released their prisoners so they would not slow their retreat.
The town hall bell rang because it was a reaction to the earlier news. It was a general alarm, not one of imminent threat. The volley of muskets was men firing their weapons before they entered a tavern. Tavern owners forbad their customers from entering with loaded weapons, and the only way to unload a musket was to fire it.
Paul Revere had done more than his abortive mission to warn the people. He unnerved the British soldiers and made them retreat thanks to good luck.
One source is “Paul Revere-His Ride & Associations with Freemasonry.”
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By: James on June 4, 2011
at 8:01 AM
delurkergurl, you said it was better than anything we had under Bush, how so? As for as jobs being added and not unemployment….what? If we are losing more than is being created how can you see that as being positive? We are at the highest unemployment rate in the last 8 months. I believe it was 2 or 3 weeks ago that it was reported we had 15,000 new unemployment claims in a single week. This isn’t good news no matter how twist it.
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By: Noah on June 4, 2011
at 7:52 AM
James, my comment was about jobs being added, not unemployment rate. Little by little, jobs are being added.
The recovery hasn’t reached everyone yet, some financially and some emotionally. Gloom and doom sells better and makes better attack ads, but progress is being made, despite attempts to sabotage it by the right, the left, and the media. The chart below is getting a little dated, as it stops in January. Growth has probably slowed in the past 6 months but the trend is still much better than it was several years ago.
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By: delurkergurl on June 4, 2011
at 7:32 AM
As far as the porn thing goes, seemed out of place and like you were trying to get assert some connotation.
I will have to look up your claim that his birth certificate was shown prior to anyone asking. I do not believe this to be the case.
Sadam did let inspectors in but then kicked them out. It was to be unconditional inspections and he did not allow that, a clear violation. I would also state that firing ground to air missiles at our jet fighters for months constituted a response, don’t you? Would also like to understand your point of view why taking down this evil person was the wrong thing to do. Why you feel it was an unprovoked attack. Why you think that backing up UN resolutions was the wrong thing to do. Why waiting for 18 months for him to comply was not enough time considering suspicions of WMDs.
I find it odd that a person self admitted to committing crimes against humanity isn’t worth stopping. I find it odd that we would be a part of the UN, yet refuse to back up their resolutions. I find it odd that when we have someone trying to shoot down our military jets that some would not constitute an act of war. Which begs the question, if what he did during this 18 month period doesn’t constitute an act of war, what would?
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By: Noah on June 4, 2011
at 7:31 AM
Thank you Noah and Mageen. My wife and I have worked most of our lives to achieve self sufficiency. I hope you can too. I wish I could help, Mageen. delurkergurl gave some good advice.
The deterioration continues and the first town is being evacuated ahead of the flood. Some of us are looking for escape routes so we can hold on as long as possible. $700,000 or so spent to plant a crop on our farm west of the interstate will be lost.
My wife as a teacher is hooked on MAC.
However, I’ve read a few viruses have begun to target Apple.
I agree about Lt. Watada. I also agree with Noah that this is now Obama’s war, and he has expanded on Bush’s policies.
delurkergurl is wrong about the current employment rate compared to during the Bush administration. I earlier showed that the unemployment rate until about 2007 was as low as 4.5%. In 2005, the New York Times printed and article discussing the large increase in government revenue.
I have no idea if this is true or not. Two or three years ago, a blogger wrote that a former member of Joan Jett’s early band attended Columbia when Obama did. She wrote he was so pompous his class mates invented an Obamameter to rate what they used to compare student’s comments in class with Obama’s best.
I don’t believe Honolulu Sally and I have ever exchanged an angry word. Early on, I wrote life would get interesting during the next four years and made some predictions. She disagreed, but we agreed time would tell. Time told.
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By: James on June 4, 2011
at 7:07 AM
Wayne –
“Noah, the only hope is to dump these idiots into their own country and be done with them. You can not reason or educate these hapless souls with their level of delusion and ignorance. They are like spoiled children. Treat them as much.”
To celebrate the 50th anniversary of Atlas Shrugged I reread it a couple of years ago. That of course is the exact premise of the book – Atlas, (the productive man) who holds up the world, finally has had enough of being targeted by politicians and parasites (but I repeat myself) and simply shrugs and lets it fall off his shoulders. The parasites now have to fend for themselves and their world descends into chaos as the producers have set up their own little economic system elsewhere, doing just fine thankyouverymuch.
Although it is fiction, my Schadenfreude-o-meter bent the needle ’round the peg. (Almost as much as when I heard John Edwards, doctor sue-r, got indicted yesterday.) Good stuff. Let’s hope it happens in our lifetimes.
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By: PFesser on June 4, 2011
at 5:54 AM
Noah, I meant that I am grateful that YOU didn’t link to the sick stuff that some other past posters have done. I made the mistake of clicking on the referenced once, so I am very careful whose links I open.
Okay, put to bed.
No, Obama didn’t provide the birth certificate. Hawaii did, and several of the news agencies picked it up (not all). In Hawaii, we thought it rather a big joke when the issue first came up, and then after the officials at the Department of Health disclosed the validity of it, and even Republican Gov. Lingle said Obama was born in Hawaii, some news heads and candidates still were asking for proof.
A Libertarian candidate for president, Wayne Allyn Root has also been posturing on Obama NOT sharing his report card while at Columbia University because HE went to Columbia during the same time period and HE never knew Obama. Wayne says that he knew everyone, and everyone knew him, so since he never heard of or met Obama, he questions if Obama really went to Columbia. Great argument.
No, Saddam Hussein wasn’t in my top 10. He was a horrible dictator. As I recall, he did refuse weapons inspections at first, and then after a few inspections were done and weapons of mass destruction were not found, he was told by the US to take his family and leave his country. He refused. War declared. Cost to the US was $1 billion per week.
I am opposed to war, and even more opposed to a war based on lies and deception. Hawaii has a very controversial figure in Lt. Watada, who went to trial for refusing to go to Iraq with his troop because the war was based on a lie. It went into mistrial twice. I have mixed feelings about his actions. Admiration for him standing up for his beliefs, and ire that he did not follow orders.
Aloha, Namaste, Shalom.
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 4, 2011
at 2:30 AM
Thanks for not linking to a porno site or other sick stuff
Why on earth do you say this? Why would I link such a thing?
Glad to see your language and tone cleaned up.
Again why bring this up? Thought we had put this to bed already. Not to mention this sounds a tad condescending.
Just so I am 100% clear, you are saying Obama provided his birth certificate prior to anyone asking for it, prior to everything that went on in the news?
Saddam Hussein, may have been in your top 10 list for person of the year, he however was not in mine. You might remember a time that he used a nerve agent on one of his own towns of an opposing religion that killed 5000 men, women and children. This particular nerve agent causes such powerful convulsions that the person often snaps their own back. I had no problem seeing the member nations taking a stand to remove this mad man. Also during the time if you recall, because I don’t think you do, he had ignored the terms of his surrender for 18 straight months, refusing weapons inspections. He ignored several UN resolutions insisting that he allow inspectors in. For 18 months he tried to shoot down our planes in southern Iraq. We told him he had an ass kicking coming if he did not comply with the UN resolutions.
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By: Noah on June 3, 2011
at 11:56 PM
Mageen, Bummer for your computer! Apple does rock, easy to learn, expensive but it comes with all the applications you need from the get go. Their support system is also awesome – free genius bar appointments, $99 for 1 year of one on one instruction – one hour each day, subject to openings (lots).
Noah, I don’t know if you remember but during the 2008 campaign, some of his opponents brought up the birther issue and that he was a Muslim, etc. At the time, our governor was Linda Lingle, Republican, and strong supporter of Palin (in fact she was with Palin when her water bag broke during a governor’s conference and Palin went straight on an airplane back to Alaska, having her baby on the plane.) If Obama was not born in Hawaii or it could not be proved, she would have been the first and loudest one with the highest Hawaii credentials at the time to cry foul. His birth certificate was provided and she did come out to say he was born in Hawaii.
Why did Obama wait so long to have the document shown again? If anyone really wanted to know and searched, they would have found it, certified green copy along with birth announcement in the local papers. It was silly is why. Trump was getting a lot of press for it, and then took a lot of credit for it. It also was not of national security level or of much importance instead of just being noise by a big headed possible candidate with big hair.
When you said “As for this going to war half cocked, a lie in and of itself, “, what did you mean? My opinion is that we went to war based on a lie and tied into the implied notion that Saddam Hussein conspired with Osama bin Laden.
I liked your link about the farmer in Pasadena. Lots of work, but food is always the most valuable and necessary commodity. Thanks for not linking to a porno site or other sick stuff. I believe gold and silver to be the commodity to have in case of an economic collapse. I was sitting next to a young woman at a conference and she said she invested in seed storage, for she believed plant seeds would be the most valuable currency in the near future.
Glad to see your language and tone cleaned up. Still sense some animosity and challenge, but if no one takes up your challenges, no biggie.
How is your baby? Father’s Day is coming soon. It will be a first one for you – Happy Father’s Day a couple of weeks early!
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 3, 2011
at 10:51 PM
And just out of curiosity, why did Obama wait so long to put out his birth certificate if he had nothing to hide? What was to be gained by not showing it? What was to be gained by waiting? IMO just one of those things that don’t add up, but since he is your guy I guess we can overlook that yes?
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By: Noah on June 3, 2011
at 8:37 PM
Noted, delurkergurl yet again could not stand by her own words. If she can’t stand by her own words how can we ever trust anything she ever says again?
Jean, considering your standards of proof, he could have said, “he’s bad” and you would have taken that as a conclusive victory.
As for this going to war half cocked, a lie in and of itself, don’t forget Obama has been following Bush policy and even stepped it up a notch since he took office. Maybe one day you could be on of those progressives who calls it like it is, rather than deciding for yourself how it is and looking for anything you can to back up your myopic beliefs.
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By: Noah on June 3, 2011
at 8:33 PM
Here’s a copy of it, Jean:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/blogs/opinions/intel/gop-netanyahu-sucker-punch-themselves/article_42895d54-8bb4-59de-a67f-3c9757d7aceb.html
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By: delurkergurl on June 3, 2011
at 8:21 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Gene Lyons has done it again with his excellent column entitled, “GOP, Netanyahu sucker punched them selves again.” Maybe you can track it down somewhere on the net if you want to read the whole article.
Lyons eloquently took down each and every one of the GOP 2012 hopefuls, one by one. Then he took on Netanyahu, who most people know is an old hawk like McCain from way back. Once the dust settled from all the Fox, et al, saber rattling, Obama made a clear statement; citing a number of both Jewish and Palestinian leaders, including what the then Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told the Israeli Knesset in 2008.
Obama’s statement was along the lines of waiting calmly and patiently through the Trump/birth certificate furor, and then quietly said, “Since questions have been raised, let me repeat what I actually said…..not what I was reported to have said.” We all know who did the “reporting”, don’t we. Once in a while, wouldn’t it be nice to see just one regressive wipe the egg off his face? Rhetorical question, requiring no answer.
As you can see, I am one of those progressive lib’rals who thinks working for peace is better, especially for civilians, than rushing off half-cocked to war. Costs a lot less money in weaponry too. Remember the “Blood and Treasure” thingy? Another rhetorical question. Still, there are quite a few regressives who do not toe the ideological line when it comes to war.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 3, 2011
at 7:57 PM
Wayne, I tend to agree. It is my hope to spotlight this foolish way of thinking to the point that maybe one of them will open their eyes to just how destructive their way of thinking is to our nation. I don’t expect delurkergurl to answer, she never does. I just keep trying, and point how how she like so many others can’t stand by their own words then move on.
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By: Noah on June 3, 2011
at 5:52 PM
Are you kidding Noah?
Delurker and the rest of her brain dead blowhards that gathered here are nothing but groupies, hacks and mindless drones staying on message of the Marxists. Half of damn jobs created were at McDonald’s. This bozo actually thinks that if a job creation number is greater than zero is positive, that’s progress – she still doesn’t understand that such low a number is still a net negative – and the jobs are minimum wage. These dummies are no different than than those loons holding up the Rapture sign a few weeks back, only their poster board is an Obama sign stenciled with Hope and Change.
How anybody could attempt to spin the economic news this week as progress is beyond help. THIS IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF EPIC FAILURE.
Noah, the only hope is to dump these idiots into their own country and be done with them. You can not reason or educate these hapless souls with their level of delusion and ignorance. They are like spoiled children. Treat them as much.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 3, 2011
at 5:07 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I’m so glad you checked in Mageen. I keep thinking about you and your husband and sending good vibes your way for both of you. I can relate, having had more than our fair share of cancer and long term treatments in my family (three members and three different kinds.)
Some of the professional hackers are getting more and more ingenious it seems. Of course, the amateurs are out there, thinking they are so clever even when they can’t get in to try and mess up. They leave a trail a mile wide and have no idea how easy it is to track and expose them if anybody wanted to be bothered with such small potatoes.
When my Computer Guru genius helped me put up my website over 10 years ago he foresaw a possibility for hacking or just plain heckling. He installed a security system tighter than Ft. Knox. I have a hard time navigating around it myself sometimes!!! God knows, I am just barely computer literate. I’ve never had a virus, worm or any other problem. It’s always a good idea to invest some time with a good Computer Guru to protect your system.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 3, 2011
at 4:54 PM
The job data is discouraging, yet still better than anything 9 years of Bush could do
Could you show me anything that backs up that statement?
George Bush’s Economic policies set a record of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!
While we are at a what, 8 month high rate of unemployment?
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By: Noah on June 3, 2011
at 4:32 PM
Oops. 8 years.
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By: delurkergurl on June 3, 2011
at 3:38 PM
The job data is discouraging, yet still better than anything 9 years of Bush could do! The disappointment is a sexy “liberal media” headline but really it’s just more progress. Slower, but still positive! Don’t get sucked in by the gloom. Any jobs added is still progress!
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By: delurkergurl on June 3, 2011
at 3:37 PM
Awwwww, Mageen! As if what you needed was MORE stupid stuff to deal with! I hope your ISP is helpful in containing the mess.
I have been thinking about your husband’s difficulty with food. Is he losing a lot of weight? Do some research about coconut oil. It may (or may not) have health benefits for him. What are you preparing for meals that works for him? Could he do a brown rice stir fry, with just a little good quality oil and some beaten egg and veggies tossed in? Perhaps a little ginger? What kind of flavors does he have trouble with? What does he like? Maybe we can help you come up with a new idea or two if you’re feeling in a rut.
My grandma had her final bout of cancer when I was pregnant for my youngest child. I’d just been released from a long bed rest, and was so thankful to be able to spend some extra time with her. She died the day after he was born. Everyone said she made sure he was born safely. 🙂 She was trying to get nutrition from things like Ensure shakes. She wasn’t very interested in food. But the one thing that I could get her to eat every time was good vanilla ice cream with some sliced fresh peaches! It made her happy and gave her some much needed calories, even if it wasn’t the perfect nutrition. Not sure exactly why I shared that but I just came from a funeral and it brought back some memories. 🙂
I’ll keep praying for you guys and hoping that the treatments are effective and you get many, many more good years together.
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By: delurkergurl on June 3, 2011
at 2:35 PM
Mageen –
Full disclosure: I own a small amount of Apple stock.
Having said that, since I went to the dark side more than ten years ago (Mac), all the headaches and frustrations of viruses, Trojans, malware of all kinds – as well as having to constantly fiddle with drivers and everything else – has just disappeared. Now my computer Just_Works and I don’t even think about it.
More expensive in the short run, but IMHO way cheaper long term – especially if you have pictures on your machine that you can’t have destroyed by viruses, etc.
Just my experience. Others may disagree.
Good wishes for the husband. Agree on the Father of the Waters. An awesome stretch of water.
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By: PFesser on June 3, 2011
at 1:47 PM
Dang! My ISP says that I have been hacked, that there was a big breach involving a lot of their customers and I have to tell this blogsite wrangler that they might be getting e-mail about working from home or paying $94+ for something. Definitely hope this trespass doesn’t leak any further. I am working on resolving this right now. Had to e-mail my entire address book!
Dang again for what James and his folks are going through with the flood. This reminds me of the great flood in the 90’s that actually made a liquid highway miles upon miles wide down the middle of the country. Hang in there, James! Also found a map of the Mississippi watershed. To say it is huge is to damn it with faint praise. Here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_River . Paste that into your browser but be sure to wear your waterwings when you open it.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 3, 2011
at 1:38 PM
James I hope, and pray that everything works out in the end for you during this crisis.
This is my end ideal, I hope someday to achieve self sufficiency.
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By: Noah on June 3, 2011
at 11:55 AM
Sorry about the long post. I give us about a week before I am gone.
A woman from Niobrara, Nebraska called KFAB with an impassioned call about shattered lives and the Corps being politically influenced. A man had said we were all a bunch of cry babies and one should expect to be flooded. I said our farm had not been flooded since 1954 and is projected to miss most of the water this time.
The talk show host said he was giving her a caller of the week prize, a collection of chocolate covered cherries. I said she deserved it. He said for this time only, they decided to give me one too. We have two weeks to get it and our son in law can pick it up for me if we have not moved in with them before then.
We have to empty our freezer, just in case. My wife and I will be gorging on the raspberry pies I made last summer..
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By: James on June 3, 2011
at 10:03 AM
Sorry about the long post. I give us about a week before I am gone.
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By: James on June 3, 2011
at 9:27 AM
Cynthia, thanks for your suggestions. Our dog is a free agent. She came as a stray with a previously broken jaw, and it took us a month to get her tame enough for us to pet her. My wife and I are the only people she will tolerate. Our son was here last summer, and our dog barked at our house for a week because she knew he was inside. When he mowed our lawn, Dog circled about a hundred feet from him.
I tried to coax her in the car with food, and I will continue. Otherwise, we may have to go with tranquilzers. Unless a vet had a long distance gun, I would have to administer them.
Our county has only five electric traffic lights and no Humane Society. The subject of pets came up at the meeting last night. They gave a few suggestions. Our daughter in Omaha researched boarding kennels for us though her work load is heavy now.
She called again last night to be sure we don’t wait too long to leave. I didn’t tell her or my wife I am considering staying with the dog if all else fails.
Our daughter is worried because the parents of a high school friend plan to stay in the second story of their home. She would go ape if she knew I was even considering it. Maybe Gov.Christie will loan us the helicopter he flew to his son’s ball game.
Contractors are building dikes here and here. One is to block water from flowing into the tributary of the drainage ditch which flows through our farm. I plan to reinforce part of the dike around our farm stead. The water in some streams has begun to flow uphill from pressure exerted by the Missouri River.
No Corps of Engineers reps came to the meeting last night. Wise move.
Anger over the human caused flood is pervasive. The civil defense man said no one knows what will happen. This scare may amount to nothing, or it may be worse. The first evacuations of the most vulnerable town are ordered for tomorrow. The power will go off on Monday. There will be no mail delivery, and the mail site is still uncertain. Our friend the post master of that town now has no job for an unknown period.
Our daughter said a friend drove through the town yesterday and it was sad with so many people moving and others crying on their front porches.
Our three churches have a food bank we help with every Wednesday night. Next week will probably be our last session.
Our bank told me not to worry about our deposit boxes or ability to write checks on our account. They are moving things and have a generator. My wife will withdraw a lot of cash this morning, just in case. Several people told me they are emptying their deposit boxes just in case.
The roads have heavy farm machinery traffic as farmers take their combines, tractors etc to high ground. The coop elevators are filling, but they will take grain as long as they can.
Most people have never experienced such a flood, and they don’t know what to expect. Three people heard what the authorities said, and they asked what I thought. I am a pretty thin reed to rely on.
A friend told me in confidence that his friend who works near one of the dams said a crack has developed and they fear for the integrity of the dam.
The civil defense rep told me that even though our farm appears to be lucky enough to be on an island, we should get out when we can. He said this is the most worried he has been during his ten years on the job.
Our home town offers refuge to residents of a camp ground, but I don’t know how they will deal with the multiplicty of campers, especially if an unexpected heavy storm drops heavy rain on the water shed.
After the meeting some of us said unofficial good byes, since many are going our separate ways for the summer at least. Our favorite term was “stay dry.”
According to radio station KFAB a 2002 Time magazine article discussed pressure from environmental groups and former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle to change the mission of the Corps of Engineers to protect the palid sturgeon and plover. Sen Tom wanted more attention paid to recreation South Dakota.
The wife of a Corps employee said the Environmental Protection Agency controls Corp policy and if we should direct our anger toward anyone, it needs to be the EPA.
I don’t know the answers or if the charges that the Corps submitted to political pressure are true, but if they are there will be hell to pay.
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By: James on June 3, 2011
at 9:19 AM
Congratulations on the fine jobs report this morning Libs.
Isn’t Obama and his economic team special? SAVE ME OBAMA! SAVE ME! Haw haw haw….how you Obama groupies going to explain this collapse away? Big business, greedy small business, your anecdote to toss another couple of trillion? The leading credit agency says the U.S. is on the verge of collapse.
Here’s the bottom line of the Obama regime performance: EPIC FAILURE IN EVERY CAPACITY. And the only way you win is by buying the vote, with O”Bama making promises he can’t possibly fulfill.
————-
Threat? 🙄 Good grief. Paranoia and deluded.
Perhaps you missed your lovely sistah Puppet on a String copying my posts verbatim from another blog Lurch, not understanding why I was forced to use a new name here. As usual, Puppet on a String didn’t get that right either. I tried to explain why and she still didn’t “get it” for weeks. Brick.
Not only are you “transgressives” that post at your feckless site Lurch amoral, evil and irrational, you’re also paranoid, mundane, repetitious, cowardly, and whiny. Really, a pathetic group of creatures.
And yeah, I know it was your group of little hens at Chatty Kitchen that attempted to out Rutherford. What else you hiding Lurch?
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By: Wayne Perram on June 3, 2011
at 8:28 AM
Mahalo Sistah Jean!
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 3, 2011
at 2:39 AM
“Linguistics is one of my favorite interests. ”
Yes, Sweetie, we know. And to dredge up the only known linguistic joke on the planet,
you are, without doubt, a cunning linguist.
(Apologies to my old friend and truly cunning linguist, Steve Richardson, whom I promised faithful and true that I would never tell that joke again.)
“No mas, te”, possibly as a derogatory corruption of “Namaste”
Ya think? Mind like a steel trap, that…
With all due respect to Roberto Duran,
No Mas! No Mas!
.
.
.
.
.
te
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By: PFesser on June 3, 2011
at 2:38 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
It’s good to see you back again in your usual rare form, Sistah Sally. It’s been a year or so now, hasn’t it?
Linguistics is one of my favorite interests. As far as greetings, salutations, whatever in the use of good manners, “Shalom” is a Hebrew word meaning “Peace”. But that is only a rough literal translation. It is very much like “Aloha”, meaning “Love”, “Hello”, “Goodbye”, etc. “Saalam” is almost exactly the same in Arabic as “Shalom” is in Hebrew. Just different spellings. Both are Semitic Languages.
As you know, “Namaste” is of Sanskrit origin. Along with some charming gestures, it falls into the same category as “Shalom”, “Saalam” and Aloha”.
Occasionally, one of the regressives here has used “No mas, te”, possibly as a derogatory corruption of “Namaste”. In Spanish, “No mas, tú” (with the comma), would be literally, “No more, you.” But, there is a BIG, BIG but…… In English we use the generic “you” indiscriminately. Other languages differentiate between the “formal” and the “familiar” use of personal pronouns. Somewhat like the archaic familiar forms of “thee” and “thou”. For example, In Spanish, “tú” is familiar and would only be used with very close friends and/or children. (Lovers?) “Usted” is the formal form, used in other everyday speech and writing with everyone else. Using “tú” with strangers, adults, and elders would be a sign of disrespect, even contempt.
In the Deep South, as in the military, “Sir” and “Ma’am” are used as signs of respect when addressing older adults, seniors, authority figures, your betters or superiors. It is the same with “Mr.”, “Mrs.”, “Ms.”, and “Miss”.
In a different context, in Hawaiian Pidgin, “Auntie”, “Uncle”, Bruddah”, Sistah” are used as terms of endearment with close, special friends but unrelated blood relatives.
Since we live with increasingly global communication, it is wise to learn something about other peoples’ culture, customs and language so as not to unintentionally offend. Otherwise, it is best to stick with the nuances of our own limited knowledge of the English language if we don’t know the difference between Spanish and Sanskrit.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on June 2, 2011
at 9:09 PM
That’s sad delurkergurl. Guns in crazy people’s hands are going to be a problem. Here come the gun control laws.
For now, I’ll stay away from Arizona.
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 2, 2011
at 8:15 PM
Before someone pounces on my typo, I meant “It seemed”, not “I seemed”.
Wow – another mass shooting in Arizona. Last I read, at least 6 are dead. Some other guy shot up a seafood place because they were out of his favorite catch.
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By: delurkergurl on June 2, 2011
at 7:47 PM
Sorry, Raji. I wasn’t clear. The incident has been brought up a few times here lately, most recently by you. But it was Tex/Wayne that implied I had something to do with it. I can’t imagine that Rutherford deserved that.
It just occurred to me that it’s odd that Wayne keeps bringing it up like it’s something despicable, shortly after warning No One’s Puppet she needed to learn more about internet security. I seemed like a threat.
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By: delurkergurl on June 2, 2011
at 7:07 PM
Delurkergurl
“Raji, I don’t know what you’re referring to with the Rutherford thing. I can’t stomach the way he lets people abuse him, so I avoid his blog unless someone points out something interesting to me. If I chose to read fountains of hate, I could do that here. I don’t know why my “blog” keeps getting implicated in it but people seem to make up the facts as they go along. I had nothing to do with it, whatever it is.”
And I am not sure what you are referring to. As I recall Rutherford came over to M&H and someone (I don’t recall who) researched him and published his real name at M&H which is called “outed”
I don’t recall that the incident had anything to do with you or your blog???
My concern is that some people go to great lengths to discover someone’s real identity and expose them which could happen to any one of us who may make controversial comments on a public blog. I don’t want to be outed and I don’t think you do either. I just don’t know what Rutherford did to deserve that.
Someone please enlighten me to what Rutherford did to deserve that!
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By: Raji on June 2, 2011
at 6:12 PM
Wow! Just get back and problem solved. we’re going to pay off the national debt with grandma’s egg money, the kids’ piggy bank change, and what we save by cutting little Johnny’s allowance.
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By: No One's Puppet on June 2, 2011
at 6:04 PM
Florida, Honolulu, doesn’t matter where you think I live.
btw, I thought the subject was about Federal taxes, not State.
Have fun in Florida.
Aloha, Namaste, Shalom, Peace.
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 2, 2011
at 5:38 PM
CORRECTION: Florida?? Honolulu in Florida? 😆 Whoops..
I’ve got Florida on the brain – just returned from Hawaii which is what I meant to say. Hope you didn’t benefit in any capacity…I’ll give my money to Florida next month – where it’s more deserved.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 2, 2011
at 4:44 PM
Sally, I see you suffer from the same malady of Puppet. Bad thing you live in Florida – since it will suffer first from your myopia, as tourism will be the first to go when they leave. You better hope they keep the harbor open.
Educate yourself…
See what smart people do Sally?
You people are a hazard to society and moral calamity. An abomination of the thickest sort. I wish I could figure a legal way to abandon you to your inevitable failure without being damaged in the process.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 2, 2011
at 4:41 PM
Raji, keep waving them flags. It is good for all of us ostrich types to have the flag wavers as a check and balance. I just don’t lose sleep or worry over much about possible threats and dismal futures that may be upon us.
James, keep safe and warm. I hope you will have internet access and you can keep us updated on your situation.
btw, you can like Sarah Palin all you want. I just don’t like her with her winky eye and gotcha Joe six pack fakeness. She does has ambition and drive. Too bad it wasn’t for a cause that could help people instead for her own self-promotion.
Thanks Auntie Jean for the “break” off topic and I always enjoy your posts. James, I liked your college (?) paper on the Indians and the cow. My first thought was that it was the Mormon owner’s fault, lol.
NOP, I agree with you about the trickle down theory. It doesn’t really work. Taxing the rich with a higher tax rate doesn’t make them stop spending. It instead makes them spend more than normal so they have less “income” to claim at the high tax rates. Giving them a lower tax rate gives them less incentive to spend since they get to keep more and sock it away wherever they want to.
Aloha – hello, goodbye, love
Namaste – I see the value of you and thank you
Shalom – dunno, help me with this Auntie Jean?
and Peace be with you.
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 2, 2011
at 3:14 PM
Cynthia –
I was actually hoping to get YOUR solutions to some of the problems, if you think there are some that need to be addressed, and hopefully to get some others’ takes as well…
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By: pfesser53 on June 2, 2011
at 2:41 PM
Pfesser
As King are you going to outlaw corruption and idiots? I had to brush up on my Senate and House responsibilities but could not find the kind of answers I wanted and little time so:
Senate – 4 years –
House – 6 years
President & Vice President – 6 year term
Positive side:
No need for fund raising once elected – no re-election concerns – free to concentrate on the job
Less reason to buy a politician
No long term investment in one – However, the offer of employment after their term ends would then become the replacement for funding. What can we do about that?
Shorter terms blood and enthusiasm
Negative side:
You have the idiot for 6 years rather than 4 or 6 years; Or not enough if they are good
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on June 2, 2011
at 2:15 PM
Puppet, you’re not only incredibly poorly prepared in your knowledge of economic and fiscal policy, you are historically inept.
If by the cute lib euphemism “trickle down” you really meant supply-side economics, from 1981-2007, the United States experienced the longest period of sustained growth in its history, with two bumps: (1) a short-lived recession in 1990-1991, and a (2) tech bubble in 2000-2001. Shortly after 9/11, the unemployment rate hit 4.4%. 4.5-5.0% unemployment is considered full employment due to transition. Full employment was sustained over a period of 3+ years during the 1st and 2nd Bush Administrations, even with the outrageous federal spending.
If you wish to criticize Reagan for creating a trillion dollar deficit okay, but I will remind you that the 1980s was accompanied by a wealth creation of an additional $17 trillion U.S. dollars. For your enjoyment, had Obama been able to recreate the same additional wealth vis-a-vis our deficit, our accumulated national wealth would have increased over $80Trillion dollars since Nov. 2008, and we would all be singing Obama’s praises. Instead, smart people muttering are now muttering under their breath and posting on blogs of Obama, Geithner and Bernacke’s abject stupidity.
I tell you this again. How many times must I repeat it before you get it? If we as a nation taxed everyone making over $100,000.00 ever dime they made, it would not pay for Obama’s $1.582 trillion dollar budget. Why can’t you understand that simple fact? You overtax millionaires, they’ll simply quit spending. You overtax billionaires, and they’ll leave or find shelters overseas.
If you’ve learned nothing else over the three plus years Puppet, you should now recognize without doubt Keynesian economics didn’t work in the 30s, didn’t work in the 70s, and certainly beyond a shadow of a doubt has not worked during this decade.
You party has failed miserably. Your implementation to solve the fiscal crisis has been a disaster of biblical proportions. Our foreign policy is to alienate our allies and coddle our enemies. Obama has become a national disgrace abroad, one gaffe after another. We spent over a trillion dollars in “stimulus” which was nothing but pork. One out of seven citizens are now on food stamps. We continue to print money and devalue our currency – inflation is imminent and consumer staples are up over 70% in one year. The last manufacturing data this week had slowed considerably – what’s left of it. The housing market is kaput. You have made enemies of big and small business. Our energy policy is a disaster and gasoline prices are now twice as high as they were when America foolishly elected a majority Dimocratic Congress in 2006. 63% of our crude is imported. Our credit rating is at risk, our entitlements broke. I can give you ten good reasons why I expect the market to collapse before Nov. 2012. Our corporate tax rates are the highest in the industrialized world and companies can no longer compete, as their productivity does not offset cost.
And your solution is to take a bad situation and turn it into a Titanic, while you shuffle the deck chairs. I will guarantee you that if we are dumb enough to implement your wishes, talk of recession will not be a part of the current lingo anymore.
I would suggest some of you get a ladder to crawl out on the window ledge. Because the alternative may look worse. Please, please wake up and educate yourself before you take the rest of us down with you, or shut up and move out of the way.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 2, 2011
at 1:30 PM
Puppet, you’re not only incredibly poorly prepared in your knowledge of economic and fiscal policy, you are historically inept.
If by the cute lib euphemism “trickle down” you really meant supply-side economics, from 1981-2007, the United States experienced the longest period of sustained growth in its history, with two bumps: (1) a short-lived recession in 1990-1991, and a (2) tech bubble in 2000-2001. Shortly after 9/11, the unemployment rate hit 4.4%. 4.5-5.0% unemployment is considered full employment due to transition. Full employment was sustained over a period of 3+ years during the 1st and 2nd Bush Administrations, even with the outrageous federal spending.
If you wish to criticize Reagan for creating a trillion dollar deficit okay, but I will remind you that the 1980s was accompanied by a wealth creation of an additional $17 trillion U.S. dollars. For your enjoyment, had Obama been able to recreate the same additional wealth vis-a-vis our deficit, our accumulated national wealth would have increased over $80Trillion dollars since Nov. 2008, and we would all be singing Obama’s praises. Instead, smart people muttering are now muttering under their breath and posting on blogs of Obama, Geithner and Bernacke’s abject stupidity.
I tell you this again. How many times must I repeat it before you get it? If we as a nation taxed everyone making over $100,000.00 ever dime they made, it would not pay for Obama’s $1.582 trillion dollar budget. Why can’t you understand that simple fact? You overtax millionaires, they’ll simply quit spending. You overtax billionaires, and they’ll leave or find shelters overseas.
If you’ve learned nothing else over the three plus years Puppet, you should now recognize without doubt Keynesian economics didn’t work in the 30s, didn’t work in the 70s, and certainly beyond a shadow of a doubt has not worked during this decade.
You party has failed miserably. Your implementation to solve the fiscal crisis has been a disaster of biblical proportions. Our foreign policy is to alienate our allies and coddle our enemies. Obama has become a national disgrace abroad, one gaffe after another. We spent over a trillion dollars in “stimulus” which was nothing but pork. One out of seven citizens are now on food stamps. We continue to print money and devalue our currency – inflation is imminent and consumer staples are up over 70% in one year. The last manufacturing data this week had slowed considerably – what’s left of it. The housing market is kaput. You have made enemies of big and small business. Our energy policy is a disaster and gasoline prices are now twice as high as they were when America foolishly elected a majority Dimocratic Congress in 2006. 63% of our crude is imported. Our credit rating is at risk, our entitlements broke. I can give you ten good reasons why I expect the market to collapse before Nov. 2012. Our corporate tax rates are the highest in the industrialized world and companies can no longer compete, as their productivity does not offset cost.
And your solution is to take a bad situation and turn it into a Titanic, while you shuffle the deck chairs. I will guarantee you that if we are dumb enough to implement your wishes, talk of recession will not be a part of the current lingo anymore.
I would suggest some of you get a ladder to crawl out on the window ledge. Because the alternative may look worse. Please, please wake up and educate yourself before you take the rest of us down with you, or shut up and move out of the way.
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By: Tex Taylor on June 2, 2011
at 1:30 PM
Cynthia –
I think we see things from a slightly different POV.
To my eye, there is no “party” to crash. It’s just a blog. Whether the premise of two old ladies communicating represents reality I don’t think is important, but whoever “they” are, they vocalize their POV and set certain very liberal ground rules for posting by others. Those rules do NOT in any way specify the posters have to be of a particular idealogy, so any notion that there is a “community” or “porch” of like-minded individuals is pure fantasy.
So to my mind, “You don’t belong here and are not welcome!” is just foolishness. When the blog owners specify who is welcome, fine. Anyone else can just go pound sand. To them I say, “NO, maybe it is YOU who are not welcome. Don’t let the screen door…” well, you know…
But anyway, I think all this personal stuff is such a time-waster, as Raji has expressed so eloquently. There are too many great ideas to explore to spend a moment on someone’s delicate sensibilities. Let’s get over it and get TO it!
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By: pfesser53 on June 2, 2011
at 1:15 PM
Pfesser,
You may have a point and then again maybe you don’t recognize my point. Let me put it this way, IMO, if you were to speak to your wife in the same manner. You would have to reconsider retiring comfortably. Unless you could do it on half of the assets you have now.
I will admit I took the word troll, an unrelated conversation and finally! realizing why I thought, Wayne in particular, was more than just rude and disrespectful but more verbally abusive when I made my rant.
IMO Most people can recognize verbal (perhaps I got carried away with emotional) abuse between a man and a woman or a parent and a child but do we recognize that same behavior on the internet? And that was the point I was attempting to make. My comment was “generic” for the most part but also applied to those who have come here over time and on other sites.
It is not personal although they can make me angry at times. I try to use humor to make my point when I have had enough of them. However, what I don’t understand is why one comes to a site where they know they are the opposing view and insist they be welcomed and their views be readily accepted as fact and the “only” view. To me it is crashing the party and then getting angry because the host called the cops. One can disagree without degrading or questioning the intelligence of their opponent etc. I do recognize this is not just one sided; “we” are not perfect or without blame either. I do think men and women communicate differently and perhaps what a man sees as acceptable conversation a woman does not.
We all have the right to our opinions but do we have the right to express them in an abusive manner. And more importantly should we ignore or tolerate this behavior? Or should we reject this behavior?
Working on your game.
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on June 2, 2011
at 12:34 PM
James – a vet can give you tranquilizers for the dog and a pet store may have a product that works. I just can’t remember the name. I brought the worst ever verbal dog from NY to VA and eventually she shut up before I was ready to drop her on the side of the road. A muzzle would have worked. I hate to think you would leave her with no way out if the house floods. She could very well pig out on the dog food, cats will ration themselves but I don’t think dogs are good at it. If nothing else get her to a dog pound/kennel in another town/city. I am sure she will she’ll deal with the car – just puke or poop perhaps.
I am sorry for your troubles.
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By: Cynthia on June 2, 2011
at 11:33 AM
James, good luck!
Raji, I don’t know what you’re referring to with the Rutherford thing. I can’t stomach the way he lets people abuse him, so I avoid his blog unless someone points out something interesting to me. If I chose to read fountains of hate, I could do that here. I don’t know why my “blog” keeps getting implicated in it but people seem to make up the facts as they go along. I had nothing to do with it, whatever it is.
Mikat, good to see you.
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By: delurkergurl on June 2, 2011
at 10:50 AM
NOP –
I think you have illustrated my point perfectly. By not “letting it burn” for many years, the duff on the forest floor at Yellowstone built up to the point that when it *did* burn, it was horrific.
So then the govt stepped in to mop up the problem it had, itself, created.
“The government still didn’t shirk away from trying to save private property, they spend millions of dollars, virtually to do nothing more than save public roads, private businesses, cabins, as well as stimulate the local economy.”
I think you are very confused about “stimulating the economy” by make-work programs, which is to say you think it is a good thing. Was it you who recently posted about wars and revved-up economies? Can’t remember now who it was…anyway you and several others need to read and internalize this:
http://economics.about.com/od/warandtheeconomy/a/warsandeconomy_2.htm
First voiced by Henry Hazlitt, the Broken Window Fallacy is a perfect example of the kind of thinking that I believe informs most of the Left on matters of economics. Humor me and read that and tell me if it makes any sense to you.
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By: pfesser53 on June 2, 2011
at 10:29 AM
Pfesser, during the Yellowstone Fires, which were according to the experts the result of years of manipulation of nature by the government, the government started a back burn which as it turned out was unnecessary and also ignited an additional fire. The government still didn’t shirk away from trying to save private property, they spend millions of dollars, virtually to do nothing more than save public roads, private businesses, cabins, as well as stimulate the local economy. Thanks to President Ronald Reagan, a very remote, extremely tiny community survived. What happened to the Republican Party?
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By: No One's Puppet on June 2, 2011
at 10:06 AM
Wayne: So exactly what reason can you give to defend and excuse that behavior? By the way, Rutherford is as progressive as they come.
I never did understand what Rutherford did to get attacked as badly as he did. Whatever could he have done that necessitated his being outed on a public blog? Why was he questioned as to whether or not he was black? What difference did it make to the posters here as to whether he was black or white? I think he deserves an apology also. By the way it wasn’t Rutherford that created the name “Fat Grannies”. I think a lot of posters backed off from this blog as a result. Why couldn’t it happen to them???
Ah Ostrich Sally,
I’m afraid there are too many Ostrich birds running around these days. I do not lose any sleep over much of anything but I do occasionally try to wave a red flag. Generally all I get for waving is a few mad bulls 🙂
James,
You are in one bad situation. I can only relate it to what happened when the TVA flooded the TN Valley and it seems your area may be more vast. I only heard stories from my grandfather and he always made sure he built on high ground as you apparently have done. So Sorry for all your troubles.
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By: Raji on June 2, 2011
at 10:04 AM
Thanks for the good wishes. I will try to keep in touch, and I will see what we can do about a crate if we have to. Our rotewiller came as a stray five years ago. She was not emaciated as one would expect because she had learned to live off the land. She has killed 28 raccoons, many other animals and cats since she came here. We finally taught her not to eat cats, and they have achieved an uneasy peace.
She is such a happy dog when she is around us, and she “defends” the farm from coyotes each night when they howl.
I called our bank to see what they are doing to protect their business so we can keep writing checks. I offered to hum Johnny Cash’s “How High’s the Water.” They didn’t really want to hear it. They are moving things and have a portable generator.
Yes, the community is pulling together. People are offering space on high ground, for household goods and farm machinery. Some are helping move furniture.
The Corps of Engineers controls this flood, so it is unique. They plan to release at least 155,000 acre feet of water next week compared to about 69,000 now. It should get interesting by this time next week or a little later.
This is surreal because so far, aside from some low land flooding and filling streams, it doesn’t look so bad. Most people weren’t overly concerned until they say the Corps of Engineers flood estimates.
A caller to radio station KFAB said her flood insurance company won’t cover the damage because it is a “man made flood.”
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By: James on June 2, 2011
at 9:43 AM
understand basic economics, not under. Sorry. Just too busy at work to proof.
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By: pfesser53 on June 2, 2011
at 9:40 AM
“You are absolutely clueless with respect to economics. And I do mean clueless.
Wayne – it’s everybody, not just one person. And that is why the hacks behind the Beltway and their disciples on Wall Street have been able to fool almost all the people all the time. That is how we got where we are.
If anybody wants to under Basic Economics, I recommend Thomas Sowell’s book – oddly enough named “Basic Economics.” This giant has placed between those covers the best information available for understanding how the capitalist system works – and how the socialists are quickly driving us downward on a Hellbound Train, to quote Savoy Brown. I read it on a two-week Caribbean cruise several years ago; I thought my wife was going to kill me, but it was better than anything we saw on shore. Get it. Read it. Then understand.
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By: pfesser53 on June 2, 2011
at 9:38 AM
I say, let’s start by taxing millionaires and billionaires their fair share, then after we have full employment again, the increased payroll will generate more taxes. Trickle down hasn’t worked any better than when Eighteenth Century France continued to give the nobility the same tax-free existence they, the nobility, had under feudalism. While the Third Estate carried that nation’s entire tax burden. The result of that was, heads rolled….
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By: No One's Puppet on June 2, 2011
at 9:25 AM
Puppet, you and millions like you are what is wrong with America. If it fails economically, it will be because of people like you. Sorry to say it, but somebody had to.
I just read yesterday, the bailout GM will cost the American taxpayer and estimated $14billion best case. And I predict with a reasonable degree of assuredness GM isn’t going to make it eventually. They’re fudging numbers as we speak about the Volt.
Lady, you let your obsessions with liberal politics push any degree of sense you might have over the cliff. You are absolutely clueless with respect to economics. And I do mean clueless.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 2, 2011
at 9:04 AM
“I see pfesser53′s comment above this space as I write, “that is a bad lick for you. Of all times for our govt to get its act together, this is IT,” he may deny it, but he too wants a government that can react to large problems efficiently and promptly.”
That is correct, but because the government has a role to play does not mean that it is the answer to everything. Marshall Plans, New Deals, et al sound wonderful, but in the long run, every dollar that goes into these plans has to come from somewhere. Since the govt Has No Money – it gets it at gunpoint from those who earned it, every dollar that goes into your American Marshall plan comes out of someone’s pocket. In general the government does any job less efficiently and more expensively than the private sector, and its meddling is what *leads* to the problems it then tries to fix.
A fine example would be the levees along the Mississippi. When the Indian roamed the plains, the Father of the Waters rose gently every spring and spread out over wide areas – only a few inches deep – the open plains acting as a giant capacitor to absorb the water. Those thousands of square miles of water then evaporated in the sun or soaked into the land – and the water that did not was never very deep, gradually being fed back into the River over many weeks.
Now we confine the River with the Corp’s levees and, when it *does* flood, you see what you get. That is the problem with meddling with natural systems, whether they be the Father or the economy. Perhaps a little govt help would be appropriate, but never forget, James’ farm is being flooded by the Corps to begin with.
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By: pfesser53 on June 2, 2011
at 8:51 AM
James,
Good luck to you. It sounds like the community has come together to help one another and the schools. Hopefully it will not be as bad as predicted. Not a lot of “high ground” in your area. I am glad you are thinking about the animals as well, they suffer tremendously in these floods too. Take care, try to keep dry and let us know how things are going.
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By: Mikat on June 2, 2011
at 8:35 AM
I woke up this morning to the prediction, that tomorrow’s job report is going to be another bad one, I hope not, but I wouldn’t be surprised. The Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 has been in effect for 10 years and in The Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 for 8 years, don’t you think if we were going see some trickle down, we see it by now? We had two wars and they didn’t spur the economy either, unprecedented.
I want to know where are the big programs? WPA, CCC, or Tennessee Valley Authority? That is what I voted for in 2008. I see pfesser53’s comment above this space as I write, “that is a bad lick for you. Of all times for our govt to get its act together, this is IT,” he may deny it, but he too wants a government that can react to large problems efficiently and promptly. I voted for Barack Obama in 2008, because I wanted action big action. I saw how he saved the American Auto Industry, made finding Osama bin Laden a major priority and it happen. We are America folks, jobs can be created, but it will never happen by a tiny saving here, a change in Medicare, or a change to a so-called fair tax. None of those thing have been proven to work. America needs something as big as the New Deal or the Marshall Plan and we need it now. Why don’t we have a crew and equipment in Iowa saving James’ farm? Oh right, that would be socialism, well we don’t have time to wait for businesses to hire, the government is going to have to show them the way, get private involved after the recovery is underway. You can think I’m old pinko if you want, but that is how you fix a recession.
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By: No One's Puppet on June 2, 2011
at 8:35 AM
Dang James – man, I hate that for anybody. Epic weather and sheer stupidity – a deadly combination.
About the dog? Unless it is huge and you can’t transport it, don’t leave it. Unlike cats, dogs don’t generally make it on their own. Being pack animals, they are not adept lone hunters usually.
See if someone has a crate you can borrow or buy for cheap. Dogs do well in confined spaces for a car ride, as it feels like a den. Plus it will help keep your vehicle from being obliterated.
I brought my little abandoned pup home 500 miles, and though we stopped every hour and a half, making the car ride seem like eternity, he did beautifully. Never even whimpered.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 2, 2011
at 8:24 AM
Damn, James – that is a bad lick for you. Of all times for our govt to get its act together, this is IT. Keep in touch with us; we’re all pulling for you.
Land prices in VA are VERY low right now and there are several farms for sale locally. If you are interested, I would be proud to have you as a neighbor.
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By: pfesser53 on June 2, 2011
at 7:30 AM
Yesterday, the Corps of Engineers briefed town leaders. They said once we move out, we had better be prepared to be gone, at least through January. Many houses will be destroyed by long-term inundation in water up to ten feet deep.
The school has an emergency meeting tonight. The foot ball team is helping move books etc to the highest levels of the school. The superintendent is renting storage space in Omaha. No one knows if the school district will be functioning by next fall.
“Its the End of the World as we know it. ” Our society is unraveling. Employers are giving their workers time to move goods to higher ground. Farmers are emptying their bins, and people are spreading rumors.
The latest projection shows our home farm to be mostly dry, but we may end up on an island. Our nine cats can live on the roof if it gets bad. If we leave, I will put some cat food up there. Our main worry is our stray dog. She is house broken, but we don’t know if she can ride in a car. If the worst happens, we will move in with our daughter and son-in law. If our dog cannot tolerate a ride in a car we will leave her on our enclosed back porch with several bags of food.
I am going to coax her into the car today.
1 to 2 inches of rain fell last night, but it has more of a psychological than real effect.
I am pretty sanguine about this, but my wife and most people around here, are frightened. Unlike me, they have not lived through a flood , especially one like this. It is unique and no one really knows what will happen. At least the nuclear power plant is off line.
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By: James on June 2, 2011
at 7:16 AM
Silent Watcher, I was not enamored by Sarah Palin as someone I wanted to vote for. I recognized her as an effective politician who changed the dynamics of the presidential campaign and might have carried McCain/Palin to victory had not the crash interviened. Some people dismissed her as trailer trash, and that was wrong. Never underestimate your enemies.
The Congressional election and subsequent events have proven me right. Sarah Palin is still the most exciting “politician” out there, and she has eclipsed Obama right now. She attracts more attention than most other political figures, and she still has the old charisma when she makes live appearances. I thought Sarah and the Tea Parties were an effective counter balance to the Democrats during the health insurance law and other debates. If you recall, the Republicans were virtually moribund.
She may be a jerk, but she can still move crowds. I once compared her to Huey Long. I believe some of Obama’s problems are related to ideology and inexperience. Palin might have given us something similar from the right. I hope she doesn’t run, because I believe Sarah has reached her level of incompetance al la Peter Principle. She has peaked and is now in decline.
I also believe any one who can rise from an obscure middle class background to national prominence can be a role model. She shows what determination, luck and talent can do. I also compared her to Al Capone who also had some praiseworthy character assets.
Yes, when people dumped on me, I dumped back. I don’t think I ever insulted anyone first. However, I did it with relish because in a weird way, they were only surrigates for a long dead battle. I also hoped to so anger some people they would stop posting as long as I was around. I wanted this site to change to where it is going with people debating without name calling and personal insults. I wanted people to exchange recipies as delurkergurl said they used to.
My skin is thick.
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By: James on June 2, 2011
at 6:55 AM
Cynthia –
“The majority of people here as are M&H are women the typical object of an abusive male. The men here who challenge have their intelligence or manhood questioned.
The negative energy of their hate, anger and fear suck the air out of the room.”
I would gently suggest that, to my inexperienced eye anyway, you are letting your opinion be informed by your own prejudices, rather than looking at the posts here objectively. I could be wrong, but it seems clear to me you have had some bad experiences that skew your observations here.
I see it differently. I have been here over a year; when I came I was amazed at how poorly one group – almost all women – treated several MEN who were trying to get *their* points across, so your stereotypical “men beating women up” meme doesn’t fly. That has changed now, and except for one or two fellows who get exorcized (sp?) on occasion, I find the men sticking to issues and the very same women STILL trying to get in their little digs. Perhaps my POV is a bit skewed as well; if so, show me where.
Raji is the wise one; we are struggling with the definition of “troll” while those shitheels in Washington are taking our very freedoms on a daily basis. To be perfectly honest, although I try to be reasonably polite within the bounds of frankness, I am less concerned with someone’s delicate sensibilities than I am my children’s liberties.
And BTW, I was hoping you would take me up on my request for your solutions to some of these problems. That offer still stands; it is not a trap; I want to know what solutions people would offer to real problems rather than listen to us carp about each other.
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By: pfesser53 on June 2, 2011
at 6:40 AM
Noah,
James came here and used to do almost what you were doing at first. I thought he was an asshat at first. If I recall, he thought Sarah Palin was wonderful. He took a lot of heat for it – after all, she was called a bitch by our host, and given the circumstances and her actions, it was a fair assessment, imho.
He got heat, and he gave a lot of heat back. Another one who disliked Liberals was UAW Tradesman. He threw a lot of epithets (thank you for the lesson) of crap around, and he got a lot of that back too. After a while, it didn’t really matter who started what because it was just a whole lot of crap flying whichever way the wind blew.
Then, after the stink settled down a bit, they became parlor regulars. The layers of crap and armor could not entirely cover the fact that these were everyday real people who just wanted to blow off steam. They were still irritating the way a prissy clean newcomer would be in a roomful of diehard slobs or a diehard slob would be in a roomful of prissy folk. What happened was we started to know them and their lives and the conversation became a bit more civil.
To some haters out there, seeing a place like M&H’s makes them sick. Not counting the times when we had trolls like Colorful, it was almost like a pep rally – and I like pep rallies, they don’t. We like patting each other on the back and applauding Margaret, Helen, and Matthew. It’s comfortable, like being on a family porch.
When the occasional party pooper would show up, there would be a lot of hissing and tsk tsking. Sometimes they would go away in disgust, sometimes not.
Noah, to tell you the truth, when you showed up, I thought you were a jerk. And then Helen did her “but I digress” piece and ripped you apart about your pro-life stance. No one can rip anyone apart like Helen to prove a point. Your point was pro-life shoved down all women’s throat. Her point was freedom to choose, right or wrong. It is up to each individual.
Instead of slinking off, you came back swinging and swinging and swinging. You were mocked, and swung back at. I don’t remember anyone who kept coming back for more.
Although I still think you are sometimes a jerk, I can also sense how vulnerable you can be, and that is a good thing. It is what makes you decent.
We Liberals don’t really want to change. We like who we are and what we stand for. We do like civilized discussion and keep the right to scroll on past and pfsssstt like a cat if something is brought up that we don’t like. That’s just the way it is here.
It doesn’t make us Liberals here wrong. My idea of a clean house is different from your idea of a clean house.
This is not another manipulation Noah. Not for you. You have a young wife and a young child. You are anti-Obama and pro-life. Nothing we can say will change your mind on that, and nothing you can say will change our opinions of pro-Obama and pro-choice.
In a blog site like this, your opinions will not be adopted. At best they will be tolerated. At medium they will be ignored. At worst they will be bashed.
James and UAW Tradesman got all three. in time, UAW became like a grumpy old friend, James put his thick skin on and keeps on plodding along with his war and storm stories. Some people scroll on by, some don’t.
I don’t know how it will be for you here if you continue to post. It depends on what you have to say and how you say it, I am guessing. If someone doesn’t agree and calls you a moron and sickening and you grow a thick skin, you will avoid a fight. If you call them out and start a ruckus, you will get rucked.
I would love to see things improving here. I don’t mind hearing your opinions, just simmer down the mean stuff, and the mean stuff will simmer down around you.
In the words of our historian by default,
Aloha. Namaste. Shalom. and Peace be with you.
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By: Silent Watcher on June 2, 2011
at 4:11 AM
Very few of us here are stupid. We can look at he posts if the lights have dimmed some. The facts are the Liberals here are the first to take things from an intellectual level and make it personal. The Liberals are the ones who go after people in packs and use deceitful tactics to manipulate people into fighting their fight their way. While their is always the occasional exception this is far more often the case than not.
If you Libs really, and I mean really want change and civilized discussion on here, then stop pointing fingers, take care and clean up your own house, and watch how suddenly and drastically things will improve here. If as I suspect this is just another manipulation then by all means continue with the pointless posturing.
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By: Noah on June 1, 2011
at 11:30 PM
Wayne. Not one time. But that wasn’t really the point of her post. I often find these people will use all the tactics listed to goad you into fighting that way with them. They then suddenly get struck with a cord of morality then come down on you for doing what they did first, having amnesia that they did it first. It is a game they have gotten very good at.
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By: Noah on June 1, 2011
at 11:25 PM
One time, at band camp, there was this guy, who thought everyone, who disagreed with him, was attacking him,and he lashed out, so irrationally, that everyone, laughed really hard, but he kept flopping around. He was like a chicken with no head. Funny funny band guy. Yeah. Then one day, he, like, went crazy. He should of got help sooner. So sad.
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By: flautisttyvm on June 1, 2011
at 8:40 PM
Hyperbole anyone? We’ve gone from heated argument to threatening violence in some tacit manner. Is that what I”m to understand? I think we are practically begging you Cynthia to fight back and defend your position. It might be fair to invoke the teasing pejorative charge (toady lackey), but it doesn’t do much to support your positions which are continually being pulverized.
Noah, you seem to be the target of most of the consequence of your detractors. Have you ever called anyone a bitch here, or threatened violence? Because I’ve never witnessed it, and in fact, you have been pretty gentlemanly in your demeanor even if the host gets annoyed.
Tell you what I see from my vantage point Cynthia.
When your arguments are exhausted, when your claims have been proven false with some bald-faced lies thrown in for good measure, when your ideas now deemed miserable failures and your propaganda shot full of holes, when your President is failing and you’ve invested every last ounce of energy in his defense, when the promises have not only gone unfulfilled but things have gotten much worse doing it your way when you had complete control, the last bastion before declaring defeat it to cry: (1) mistreatment; (2) sexism; (3) racism.
But Cynthia. If you can find one place where I personally have threatened violence, or threatened anyone in any capacity for that matter, I will surely leave you to your liberal group think that you apparently require without interruption. Promise.
But since you bring the subject up, I repeat again for the record. Your pals at Chatty Kitchen did everything in their limited power to find out any bit of personal information about one Rutherford Lawson, and to make spectacle across the web with it, including his on-line advertisements.
Now I don’t know if you call that violence, but it is surely libel with intent of malice. So exactly what reason can you give to defend and excuse that behavior? By the way, Rutherford is as progressive as they come.
Should I in turn make charges of misandry because Rutherford happens to be male?
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By: Wayne Perram on June 1, 2011
at 8:27 PM
That last paragraph after my Aloha, Namaste, and Shalom was going to be another post that I was starting, when I saw Cynthia’s fine post.
I got a bit jumbled up, there.
Aloha, Namaste, and Shalom again!
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 1, 2011
at 8:23 PM
Amen to that Cynthia!
Peace is a wonderful mantra. Disturbers of the peace? Not fun, not fun – for me, that is.
Raji, the world in which your daughters will live might be worse, might be better. We can guess at what it will be, but it will be what it is, not necessarily what we project.
“The Matrix” with Keanu Reeves was sci-fi and maximum conspiracy mixed in with ninja and sputtering space ships. Neo was living a good enough life and didn’t know it was fabricated until he endured intense pain and reality. And then came responsibility.
What to do when our privacy rights are infringed upon? I will take an ostrich stance and be glad that I am not a target. I don’t foresee a dark cloud of domineering force taking over my life or my freedoms. I do see how the internet can be used as a powerful tool for us average bears, as well as for others who wish to do us harm.
In Hawaii, all of our parks used to have swing sets and seesaws for the keiki (children) to play on. We would climb on trees, skin our knees, fall off swings on asphalt or hardened dirt and get “puka head” (large cuts on the back of our heads from the fall usually requiring stitches).
Somewhere in the late 1990’s, somebody’s kid fell off a swing set or monkey bars onto the hardened play surface and brought suit upon the City and County of Honolulu. ALL the playgrounds were declared off limits. Each playground had to have existing equipment removed, the ground dug to 2+ feet and very expensive soft ground material was poured, then safety approved play equipment installed.
When the playgrounds were first condemned, it really made me mad. Just because some libel crazy person sued the State and City because their kid got hurt, all the rest of the kids didn’t get to play on existing playground equipment that was now kapu (forbidden, off limits).
It took the City YEARS to begin the rebuilding process at a very high expense.
Today, all of our parks have impact friendly ground cover, nice new modern playground equipment, and less puka heads going to the hospital for stitches.
Do not despair too much Raji about the future of your daughters because of what might happen. Enjoy the peace and freedom you have on your farm in the country (sounds lovely).
Have faith in people’s decency. Some, but not all, are out to destroy. The destroyers, I believe, are a very small minority. They may be powerful (Bilderburg conspiracy anyone?) but they are a small minority.
I have taken a lot of space on a subject you feel strongly about. I don’t agree or disagree with you about the Patriot Act. I do hope you don’t lose too much sleep over a supposed threat and its possible consequences.
Aloha, Namaste, Shalom,
Ostrich Sally
All of us here are decent human beings with our own set of problems and views, and different ways of choosing to interact.
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 1, 2011
at 7:43 PM
IMO there are those who to come talk or share their views. It may get heated at times each trying to convince the other their view is fact but should still remain reasonably respectful; after all it is just our opinions not necessarily fact. Nothing we discuss here will bring about change or matter so why are we fighting with each other as if it will.
AND then there is the verbal and emotional abuser who uses cyberspace. They come wanting to debate but instead they control and dominate the conversation; insist they are intellectually superior and their view is correct and fact.
They use name calling, put downs, attempt to humiliate, degrade, intimidate, question the intelligence, imply you and your views are inferior.
(You stupid b*tch you are the most worthless piece of sh*t) – words of an abuser.
If you attempt to state your views they respond you and your views are baseless and incorrect.
(You don’t have a brain in your empty head.)
They may pick a certain point of yours and demand an explanation or answer. If you refuse to answer, then the accusation of being too incompetent to reply.
(Don’t you give me the silent treatment, I asked you a question. Don’t you walk away from me you b*tch.)
You have no right to fight back.
(Don’t you raise your voice to me. Don’t you raise your hand to me.)
If you ask why they are doing this; it is your fault for being so stupid, they have to educate you.
(It’s your fault. If you would just listen to me I wouldn’t have to treat you like this. I wouldn’t do this if you would just be nice.)
This is the behavior of an emotional and verbal abuser.
And those who condone or justify or don’t call it for what it is are no better than the abuser.
The majority of people here as are M&H are women the typical object of an abusive male. The men here who challenge have their intelligence or manhood questioned.
The negative energy of their hate, anger and fear suck the air out of the room.
If you think I am exaggerating go back and read the posts!
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on June 1, 2011
at 6:45 PM
Wayne
“I have said this before. Osama won, dead or not. We have lost our “collective” minds.
And what’s worse, we whimper when we should be outraged over the gross incompetence and stupidity.”
Pfesser
“Yes, but our security is SO important.” Doesn’t anybody EVER read history?
Very scary world we live in and yet we spend our valuable time discussing “trolls” on the internet. This is why our government is going to be able to issue mandates that can control our lives.
Wayne’s description of flying today is just one example. I do not fly for those reasons. I live in a very rural community by choice. The people I associate with are concerned with crops and weather and hunting. After years of International Banking and being politically correct, I savor my life of weather and the yearly hay yield. At my age I will probably not be alive when all our rights as individuals are taken from us but my daughters will have to live in that world. So Sad 😦
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By: Raji on June 1, 2011
at 6:22 PM
James, just asked to see how closely the general public in S. Dakota, Iowa, and Nebraska might have followed the trials on Anna Mae Pictou’s kidnapping and murder. Thanks for the response.
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By: No One's Puppet on June 1, 2011
at 5:43 PM
pfessor, we are over due for a Midwestern type drought. An Omaha meteorologist used 1974 as an analogue for last winter and he said the pattern is continuing into the spring. If so, the tornado season will be front loaded into April and May. June will suddenly turn hot and dry. Time will tell, but the two week extended outlook looks hot and dry from here south.
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By: James on June 1, 2011
at 2:52 PM
NOP, you do have a way with words. I might have done the same.
Ragi, and the others, I agree about the internet. I believe elements of the government want to control it because cyberspace is messy and makes information control impossible.
delurkergurl, I can see your point. Behavior tells a lot, and it is true people can be very brave in front of a computer screen. Its not a message board, but I call it that because we deliver messages to each other. I have my own ideas as I did in the Air Force when I got in trouble during basic training because I refused to call the chow hall anything but a cafeteria.
I still haven’t forgotten to give you a recipe.
My quarrel with the Corps of Engineers is they should have known something like this would happen. Several private weather forecasts gave the region heavy precipitation and cold weather. Combine those forecasts with several years of weather so wet that Devils Lake, ND is threatening to consume the city.
Its amazing how things change and how little we can do about nature’s whims. A few years ago, the debate centered on how best to keep the lakes from growing dry. One solution was to put plastic on river bottoms to stop seepage into the ground.
Wayne, I don’t know if the conversation occurred before President Kennedy want to Dallas-Ft Worth or some other time. His advisers told him the government needed to do more to protect Kennedy. He replied it didn’t matter. If someone wants to kill you he/she will.
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By: James on June 1, 2011
at 2:39 PM
James –
I skied at Squaw Valley the winter before last. My wife told me last night that they were STILL open for skiing this year. We have had record rain here in VA and it looks like record hay crops. It’s starting the summer dry period now though.
I thought you might have meant acre-feet instead of cu. ft. Man, I’d hate to be in the Corps and have to make those decisions.
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By: pfesser53 on June 1, 2011
at 2:31 PM
NOP, I don’t know much about Anna Mae Pictou’s murder. She was from Canada and a member of AIM is serving time for her murder. She was murdered on the Pine Ridge reservation, and the circumstances are murky.
Tim Giago is/was a columnist in Rapid City, and he writes about tribal matters. The Omaha World Herald sometimes prints his columns. He believes her murder was related to a power struggle between Russel Means, Dennis banks, and the Bellacourt Brothers in 1975. I don’t know if his opinion is accurate or not, but it is different from the general view. You can probably find something with google.
An acre foot equals the volume of one foot of water on an acre. The flood is taking center stage on the local talk shows. A caller said they are sand bagging at Pierre, SD and fear Ft. Pierre will be lost. The FT Thompson Dam, I think he said has water within 20 feet of the top. They are releasing 200,000 acre feet from that dam.
The Corps of engineers has been quiet except to complain to KFAB Omaha about the numerous calls of complaint. This afternoon, a representative told the station that unforeseen developments caused the problem. Parts of Montana have already recieved over 600% of their normal annual precipitation. That was as unexpected as the record snow fall in the Rockies. It is still snowing up there from time to time.
Our minister who used to live in Wyoming said the Snowy Mountains west of Laramie usually have open roads by Memorial Day. Some highways are still under twenty-five feet of snow and will probably be closed until mid July.
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By: James on June 1, 2011
at 2:21 PM
Well said Wayne, we know where we disagree and we can attempt to understand why we disagree when we inevitably butt heads. And in the spirit of disclosure, I would have given George W. Bush the heimlich maneuver, when he was choking on the pretzel, while I prayed under my breath that the damn thing hit Dick Cheney and give him a big ole black eye.
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By: No One's Puppet on June 1, 2011
at 2:17 PM
NOP,
Interesting. I’ll tell you the same thing I told Pfesser. If I have given you the impression I thought George Bush was a great President, then you have misunderstood my position. My defense here of Republicans is based on “not nearly as bad”, not that I think they are so good. I assure you that there is not a party that represents my wishes. Though I think Paul Ryan is massaging the edges, his plan is only a stop gap measure trying to assure things don’t go even further south. And that is not going to cut it. So I am once again forced to choose between the lesser of two evils.
As example, I think Afghan War is an abortion and has been from the start. I don’t deny we had to go, but much of our problem is our political correctness and political cowardice. The military is not intended to build nations – it’s intended to protect the citizenry and defend the Constitution. I would yank our troops out in a New York second from Afghanistan if I had my druthers, with a promise of annihilation if any event of 9/11 ever is planned or invoked from Afghans borders. They are not worth one American soldier IMO. I’m not wasting my times with corrupt thieves and thugs like Karzai. You probably would not like me as President. 😉
I agree with many liberals that there is something perverse and twisted in building a school in Afghanistan while our own crumble – no manner how rotten the curriculum and administration, nor how bad the parenting.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 1, 2011
at 12:12 PM
Some good law enforcement info for all my friends: how to identify a meth lab.
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By: pfesser53 on June 1, 2011
at 11:53 AM
dislike, not dislike like. My bad.
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By: pfesser53 on June 1, 2011
at 11:33 AM
dgurl –
I guess I missed the “too technical” part. I felt everyone’s contributions were well thought-out and just fine. To me they seemed variations on a theme: a troll is interested ONLY in disruption and NOT discussing topics. If that’s too technical, we as a country are truly doomed, for our schools are even worse than I thought.
My only contribution was that I added the troll test: ignore her. If she goes away, she’s a troll; if not, then not. Of course that sets an easily verifiable standard, and we can’t have that. It’s better to say, “they’re a t**d” – a t**d by your definition of course. That gives you the freedom to call anyone you happen to dislike like a troll, doesn’t it? When you have to apply a test, then you lose that prerogative.
A little cruising the Web will reveal that nearly everybody agrees the test is critical, since it separates people who just want to be t**ds from those who just don’t agree with you and piss you off.
Sorry, nice try – but unfortunately as transparent as a windowpane.
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By: pfesser53 on June 1, 2011
at 11:30 AM
Wayne, I posted this awhile back, I thought at the time it would spur some discussion about how 9-11 personally affected us. Here is the link again.
Video: The reckoning: Assessing the economic toll of Osama b…
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/economy/video-the-recko…
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By: No One's Puppet on June 1, 2011
at 11:24 AM
My mistake above. They all look sound alike, so I get them confused. Not Lori, but DeLurkerGurl.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 1, 2011
at 11:21 AM
Here Lori, without the pejorative from your favorite “turd.”
There’s a conspiracy theory in America today. Not one of birthers, or troofers, or racers, or grassy knolls. Approximately 37% of the U.S. voting public is a part of it, as I suspect you are. And that is that your favorite President and his cabinet, and his czars, and his propaganda machine are doing a great job of managing the U.S. economy.
Why don’t we drop the pretense of “troll” and talk about the realities of “fact.”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43236764
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By: Wayne Perram on June 1, 2011
at 11:20 AM
Pot, meet kettle. Duplicity, double standards, and rank hypocrisy, now followed by whining and cries of injustice. Tell that to Rutherford, who is liberal as it gets and was met by your quasi-feminine gang of thugs who didn’t agree with his conclusions, so your little gang then proceeded to try and cause as much harm as possible by finding tidbits of personal information about him to be shared across the web. And I don’t believe a one of us “trolls” have ever attempted to cause personal harm. You owe him a personal apology.
Change the word liberal to Conservative, and look in the mirror. We simply play your game and do it better – and you’re having a hard time accepting that you’re not nearly as smart, clever or witty as you once thought now that the odds are even. Sauce for the gander and your game has been called.
The blog is not exclusively advertised as liberal as I attested to from the About Box. If the owners wish to make is so, it is of course their prerogative ala Jumping Jimmy Wright – not yours.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 1, 2011
at 11:11 AM
I tell you Pfesser, James, and Raji.
I’m reminded of this with James story of flooding towns and ruining people so that birds can nest, or turtles can lay their eggs, or some slug suffers.
When I left corporate America eight years ago, I basically quit flying. Almost refused to fly, though I flew two days after we were allowed back into the skys after 9/11 (what a zoo). I quit flying not out of fear, but the fact the process had become so horrid, inconvenient and intrusive. It’s far worse now.
A couple of weeks ago, I was left with no choice. Can’t hardly get to Hawaii from the mainland without a commercial aircraft. It was my first experience with the new TSA rules, paying for baggage, a pillow, and a quarter of a soft drink. As we were subject to jackboots with a badge, cattle herd movements, walking barefoot, shake downs, bad manners, and ill mannered stewards, I was picked out for the random search. Must be the blue eyes that gave me away as jihadist in waiting. 🙄 Our new security procedures are simply legalized molestation. Personally, I wasn’t offended as I was offered an alternative, and I winked at the TSA agent while he fondled me (who wasn’t amused and called me out for it), but if my daughters or wife had been subjected to that, I would have blown a gasket right there in the terminal.
I have said this before. Osama won, dead or not. We have lost our “collective” minds. We have attempted to give ourselves a false sense of security that we can not afford and spite freedom and liberty in the process. We allow ourselves to live in fear. We coddle criminals in the name of humanity, and then treat our law abiding citizens and victims like rabid dogs. The EPA has become goosesteppers and are applauded for their works by many.
And what’s worse, we whimper when we should be outraged over the gross incompetence and stupidity.
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By: Wayne Perram on June 1, 2011
at 10:58 AM
James, I think the troll definition may be getting too technical. In my mind it comes down to, “is this person here solely to be a turd?” It seems like on the internet there are a lot of people who completely abandon the lessons they learned in kindergarten. The hard part is that the turd probably has a million ways they’d justify their actions. After all, they are never bad people, right? 😉 Somehow the fruits of the seeds they sow have to be part of the equation.
Coming to a liberal blog and having a debate isn’t trolling. Calling liberals stupid rubes, sheep, mentally ill, etc. is not debate, though. Insulting people for stepping in the bait is also not debate. Attacking the blog host (this isn’t a message board) isn’t debate, either. Chronic negative, rude responses to every comment… never having anything constructive to say about anyone (except turds encouraging other turds)… to me these are strong signals. Are they here to talk, or get in the way of talk? Contributors, or crap stirrers?
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By: delurkergurl on June 1, 2011
at 10:38 AM
James – do you mean “acre-feet?”
Raji – our rights and freedoms are going down the pipes faster than I have ever seen them. These Washingtonians have had their greedy eyes on the Internet for a long time and they By God want to control it. I am just boggled when I talk to my supposedly-educated friends about the Patriot Act and they start telling me, “Yes, but our security is SO important.” Doesn’t anybody EVER read history?
I fear for this country, in a way I cannot ever adequately express.
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By: pfesser53 on June 1, 2011
at 10:04 AM
Wayne
“Part of the problem is Raji, after the Bork and Thomas public lynchings which were started by the Left, quality people for the most part quit seeking public office. Nobody of any character is going to subject their families to the brutality.”
Talk about “concise”. You hit the nail on the head. 🙂
Best description of Clinton I ever heard.
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By: Raji on June 1, 2011
at 9:55 AM
James, the Horse Creek Treaty and the later Fort Laramie Treaty have certainly influenced Indian-American government relations ever since, are you familiar with the murder of Anna Mae Aquash? I’ve been researching and writing, as I can, about the incidences on the Pine Ridge Reservation for some time now. I really should kick it in gear and get back to work on it.
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By: No One's Puppet on June 1, 2011
at 9:54 AM
While everyone was debating the meaning of trolls, I was listening to a very enlightening talk show on NPR regarding cyber attacks. Apparently the Pentagon wants to declare cyber attacks as an Act of War as these attacks could effect our electrical grid and transportation system. Apparently the White House is in the process of determining government mandates on companies (read internet!!!) that will require them to install more security methods. Apparently companies already have sufficient security methods that are updated routinely.
Now I am sure everyone is aware of the above statements. What struck me while listening to the talk show’s guest speakers who were cyber security experts was the Pentagon wanting another Patriotic Act in cyber space. The cyber security experts pointed out that by the time the government formulated a mandate, it would already be OUTDATED. Cyber attacks on our electrical and transportation systems DO NOT need the internet. Viruses that hack into the system come through the front door. Is this the back door for government control of the internet?
In the aftermath of 9/11 the Patriotic Act was crammed down our throat through fear tactics. Are we going to let these same fear tactics take over Cyberspace? What is being fed to the people regarding the internet through MSM is exactly what was fed to the people regarding death panels.
I am afraid of what is going to be pushed through the government in the next 18 months while people’s minds are occupied with elections.
I would appreciate any knowledgeable comments on the subject.
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By: Raji on June 1, 2011
at 9:41 AM
I’m preoccupied with an immediate threat. Over 15 inches of rain has fallen on parts of Montana in the past two weeks. The Rockies have a huge snow pack which has not yet melted. Last year was also wet, and the Missouri River resevours have filled.
The Corps of Engineers let out more water from the lakes this spring so the pallid Sturgeon could better reproduce. Now, they are sending copious amounts of water down stream to save the dams. Places like Minot, ND, and Pierre, SD are sandbagging to protect their citizens.
Land around us is also going under, and some towns are meeting today to discuss evacuation and flood protection plans. Omaha is already at the record 1952 flood stage, and the river may be another seven or eight feet deeper by mid June. So far, our farm is projected to be dry but the school where my wife teaches may have four feet of water in the commons.
20,000 to 21,000 cubic feet of water were released in January through March. The corps hesitated to release much more because the Piping Plover was nesting. The corps disregarded the flooding James and other rivers in South Dakota, because they thought the resevours had the capacity to handle extra water. Now that so much more than expected water is here they are being overwhelmed. Lord help us if a heat spell melts the mountain snow quickly.
The release rate will soon be 150,000 cubic feet of water and may go higher. The corps says once a spot is flooded it may stay under water through next January.
This is a slow motion flood and it will be at least as big as in 1952. Millions of dollars in flood control projects will pay for themselves this year, I hope.
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By: James on June 1, 2011
at 9:40 AM
Like most of us, I have had experience on moderated message boards. I was a moderator on one. Name calling and insults were forbidden. A victim was advised to complain to the moderators who might suspend or ban the initial offender. If he/ she retaliated, his/her offense was regarded as serious as the person who started the fight. Hostile people were told not to react to each other in any way, even to the point of staying away from threads the other had contributed to.
Changing the discussion of a thread was also discouraged.
As far as I’m concerned anything short of threats of violence and actionable charges is fair game on this site. The owners have done little or nothing to enforce rules, so we must assume they like such an energetic debate. It enhances interest and traffic. This site belongs to none of us, and it is our job to establish standards of decorum that we think is appropriate for alleged adults.
I had a problem with one site and handled it by bringing another message board and someones’ blog into the mix. The rules of the other sites did not apply to the others, of course, and people of one were familiar to the others.
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By: James on June 1, 2011
at 9:19 AM
I’ll bite. This is my term paper .
Irreconcilable Differences and a Cow
They were the Seven Council Fires of the Sioux Nation, people united by culture, language and family. Lakota, Dakota, Iowa Ponca, Oto, Santee Sioux and Winnebago were part of the Nation. Chipawas called them Little Snake, or Sioux. They were large, handsome people with long jet black hair,and they were born to ride.
After they aquired Spanish horses in the sixteenth century, the Sioux and their allies built an empire reaching from Kansas and Iowa through Canada and Wyoming. Buffalo were their life force. The sacred animals provided food, shelter, tools and their purpose for being. The Black Hills, won by conquest, became their holy land and Bear Butte north of the Hills was the most sacred of mountains.
Women were powerful and essential to the tribes’ survival. They were in charge of gathering materials and building homes. They managed their homes and helped hunt buffalo. Women skinned the animals and cooked their meat. Mending clothing and building tools from bone and wood was also part of their job description Mutual respect guided relationships between men and women.
Tribes divided leadership duties according to talent. War chiefs led conflicts and other chiefs controlled the community during peace. The Sioux borrowed from the Cheyenne’s Council of Forty-four, vaguely representative body with rules and procedures designed to expand the empire while settling disputes and maintaining order.
The Seven Council Fires had developed a sophisticated political and economic system designed to capitalize on their environment and the flexibility to cope with change. They, like their European competitors were a formitable expansionary force.
The Indian’s first contact with Europeans began before they saw each other. From the beginning, Eurpeans traded guns to the Indians and the weapons’ use spread westward, settlement by settlement years ahead of the first Europeans. First personal contacts were genial. Fur traders often married Indian women and were adopted into the tribes. The positive exchange of goods and information was mutually advantageous and friendly through the 1830’s. Moreover, the tribes regarded Europeans as kindred souls. Both were relatively new to the plains, and both were empire builders. The Sioux expected the two empires would co -exist to their mutual advantage. They envisioned a series of loose alliances similar to their relationships with other major tribes.
The Indians soon combined their horsemanship and ability with weapons to turn themselves into one of the finest cavalries in the history of the world. When Mormons, gold seekers, and others traveled west, Indians gradually realized the threat such numbers held for their existence. Gradually, their hostility festered beneath their still friendly demeanor. Indians still waged war against one another, and occasionally harrassed immigrants. However, several tribes made tentative overtures to each other to discuss what they increasingly regarded as a common enemy.
Government administrators understood the potential threat, and they decided to force the Indians to stop waring against each other and to prevent them from turning on the overland migrants. They planned to impose a political settlement on the tribes and offer sufficient material incentives to insure an agreement. They were as certain of success as Western leaders who tried to force political settlements on the Middle East.
Over ten thousand Indians gathered near Ft. Laramie to discuss the government’s proposal. The treaty would establish tribal boundries of the eight participating nations, some of whom were enemies. Migrants were given free passage, and the government was allowed to build military forts along the routes. In return the Indians received annual payments of money, food, and trade goods. The treaty was a precursor to reservations. Negotiators made such extravigent promises for such a vast area their promises could not have been kept even if their blandishments were bestowed in good faith.
Tensions escalated, especially among the Sioux, because like Middle Eastern nations after WW1, they resented interlopers’ dictating how they would conduct their lives. The Sioux were especially resentful because they regarded themselves to be the political siblings of the Europeans. Both nations were prideful people and believed in an unexpressed manifest destiny.
Ultimately, the Sioux grudgingly signed the treaty at Horse Creek as the other nations did. A peace of sorts had begun. At least it did until a cow interferred. A Mormon’s cow wandered onto the site, and several Indians killed her for food. The irate owner demanded recompense and complained at Ft. Laramie. The chief offered payment in horses, but the owner refused.
The government ordered the chief to surrender the offending braves to the Army to be tried for theft and destruction of property. He refused. Several days later Lieutenant Grotlers led his soldiers into camp to enforce government demands. He and the chief greeted each other politely, but once again, the chief refused to surrender his braves.
Both men were trapped in something not of their making. The chief couldn’t back down, because it would diminish his standing as a leader. Lieutenant Grotlers’ orders similarly shackled him. Both men were unmoved. Mutual frustration led to harsh words. Someone fired a rifle, and both sides lost control. When the shooting ended, a company of American soldiers lay dead. The long war had begun.
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By: James on June 1, 2011
at 9:05 AM
Well, I have never seen a post so effectively shut down a discussion…Jean, I think you have free-associated yourself right out of business. I know there is a point there somewhere, or at least a direction, but damned if I can find it.
We’re lost. How about tossing us a compass?
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By: pfesser53 on June 1, 2011
at 8:26 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Gee, I thought the ‘thread’ on this page was something Helen said about President Obama’s administration tracking down and getting Bin Laden. Or may be it had something to do with abortion. Or maybe….. You know how it is with us Old Broads and our slipping memories. But when and by whom were we led astray from lock step marching in conformity? That is sooooo yesterday facist thinking.
Here’s an idea. It’s graduation time! We could all dig out and dust off our high school term papers, college theses and dissertations. That is, if any of us still have them under lock and key. It would be a dandy nostalgic ego trip down memory lane. Then we could put them up here in M&H’s as comments. The other contributors would grade them on a pass/fail basis. BS (bullshit) degrees would be granted along with MA (master of asinine) degrees. Since everything here is written, there would be no doctoral oral exams for the BhD (doctor of blog histrionics).
We could hold a graduation ceremony with great poop and circumstantial evidence, all wearing robes and motor(mouth)board hats. Diplomas could be handed out with much summa and some magna cum loudly fanfare.
Let’s go for it!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 31, 2011
at 9:10 PM
Pfssor,
Thank you for the answer. You seem fair enough to accept other people’s definitions of “troll” as their own, and so, to each their own. Here on M&H we have had trolls that meet your definition. The internet is fairly young, the definition of a troll will have different meanings to different viewers. Doesn’t really matter, and it is off topic.
Noah,
I am not sure what you mean with “Silent Watcher, end if the day your an apologist. Its twisted Liberal activities like this that make me loath the party. I find your attempts to solicit civilized discussion hypocritical since the only ones you can find fault with are non liberals.”
I’ll end the posting day soon for it is getting late. And actually I am an apologist. I apologize all the time, though I am not Catholic.
“twisted Liberal activities like this” – you are on a Liberal blog. If I were to go on a Conservative blog, I would probably think they are performing twisted Conservative activities, but I would not loath the party for that. There are a whole bunch of other reasons to loath the party.
That being said, I did not want to solicit discussion. I was acting like a grandparent asking an adult grandson to cut the rude behavior and get over past insults. It wasn’t discussion, it was one way advice.
You want an apology? I’ll give you one. I am sorry, Noah. You want me to end posting? I will if you say so.
I mean it, really.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 31, 2011
at 8:44 PM
I agree Pfesser – beautiful definition of troll. If Noah or I came in here and did nothing but drop unrelated links, or repetitiously discussed off topic, or didn’t answer questions asked to us, or while the thread was fresh, made no reference to the topic at hand, then Silent could fairly call me troll.
But the thread is now old news, it’s back to the potpourri of topic, I have attempted to respond to the other comments, I talk about the subject at hand, and that’s not trolling. Might be bad behavior – might be hateful – maybe it’s not even be effective.
But it is still not trolling. And flame wars to me is still the best descriptor I’ve ever read to describe an open forum.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 31, 2011
at 6:33 PM
SWatcher –
“Pfssr’s definition of trolls on this blog of Margaret and Helen? Wouldn’t mind hearing it from the man himself.”
Fair enough. As an old dude (I built one of the Altairs in college),
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800
I have the perspective of having used the Internet since it was all text-based, sending my posts thru NNTP and a host of other services, so I have watched this little jewel called “Internet” grow since well before my Boy Tim Berners-Lee made the Web possible. I have also watched “flame wars” – now there is a dated term – develop and die many, many times. People are much more sophisticated nowadays and flame wars are never seen, since folks finally have realized there is not a goddamned thing they can do about what others think or say, and some of those other folks get a perverse – like that term, JJoe? – kick out of sending people ’round the bend anyway.
Now to your question: to my practised eye, a troll is someone who posts to a blog or newsgroup with no purpose AT ALL other than stirring the s**t. His thing is that he gets off on the response. He is not someone with an opposing opinion who just happens to be undiplomatic; his purpose is solely to cause strife, and the cardinal sign is that his posts are usually off-topic.
The litmus test for a troll is to ignore him. This in the old days was called a PISS – passive ignorance (or ignoring) silence strike. When the group does this, he will usually *increase* his activity for a short time – the same way a lab rat will press the bar frantically if it stops dispensing food – but like that rat he will slowly fade away Because The Response Is The Only Reason He Posted To Begin With. He is not interested in the topic; he has only one interest and that is to piss you off. If he comes in, posts off-topic, and fades away when ignored, what you have there is a duck – er, troll.
So when I came here a little over a year ago, I was amused to see the amateurs referring to Craig, James, et al as “trolls.” Whoever “Matt” is, he is obviously very bright and right on the money – *they* were not the trolls; the people who only responded to them with off-topic snark and never addressed their topics *were*. I thought the irony was staggering.
Anyway, too long a post. I apologise for its length, but that’s how *I* see it. Thoughts?
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By: PFesser on May 31, 2011
at 5:55 PM
Silent Watcher, end if the day your an apologist. Its twisted Liberal activities like this that make me loath the party. I find your attempts to solicit civilized discussion hypocritical since the only ones you can find fault with are non liberals. My fault this time, I actually took the bait and assumed your posts were genuine. That is on me. I will in the future not be so quick to trust you and your deceitful ways.
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By: Noah on May 31, 2011
at 5:40 PM
Smart man you are Wayne, guess you are a dictionary expert, glad you find us mind boggling.
Your reference re: About Box? I don’t get it. But never mind. I’ll Cry Uncle for you already.
Pfssr’s definition of trolls on this blog of Margaret and Helen? Wouldn’t mind hearing it from the man himself.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 31, 2011
at 4:00 PM
Silent, with all due respect, you and some of your pals double standards in judgment and fairness are mind boggling.
Earlier, you accused me of hurling “epitaphs” at Obama and defined that as trolling. I think Obama still lives (see epithet) 😈 So it would appear to me that your real definition of trolling is anybody that operates outside the boundaries of your and Sally’s requirement of group think. Anybody that disagrees with the content of the post and replies as much could and would be a troll.
And if a troll is anybody that “is in violation of the implicit rules of Internet social spaces (whatever the hell than means) and is often done to inflame or invite conflict”, what would you call every M&H’s thread? This is not Wikipedia – it’s the neighborhood block party. The blog owner seems to understand bomb throwing, even apparently expects bomb throwing as whoever writes these posts is pretty damn humorous with the invective. Even I’ve got to admit that.
That is why I read straight from the About Box to you. Accusation of trolling has become like the accusation of racism. Thrown around way too often, and when you read it from an opponent as defense, just read “Cry Uncle.”
Hell, a couple of you goons here accused Rutherford of being a troll. He’s another, more refined Liberal WordPress Blogger.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 31, 2011
at 3:46 PM
Sally,
You took the words out of my mouth!
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By: Silent Watcher on May 31, 2011
at 3:07 PM
Pfessor,
I don’t know how you would identify a troll on this blog.
There’s the wikipedia essay definition:
“Trolling is any deliberate and intentional attempt to disrupt the usability of Wikipedia for its editors, administrators, developers, and other people who work to create content for and help run Wikipedia. Trolling is a violation of the implicit rules of Internet social spaces and is often done to inflame or invite conflict. It necessarily involves a value judgment made by one user about the value of another’s contribution. (Because of this it is considered not to be any more useful than the judgment ‘I don’t agree with you’ by many users, who prefer to focus on behaviors instead of on presumed intent). Not to be confused with large warty monsters thought to dwell under bridges, in caves etc.
Trolling is not necessarily the same as vandalism (although vandalism may be used to troll). A vandal may just enjoy defacing a webpage, insulting random users, or spreading some personal views in an inappropriate way. A troll deliberately exploits tendencies of human nature or of an online community to upset people.
There are many types of disruptive users that are not trolls. Reversion warriors, POV warriors, cranks, impolite users, and vocal critics of Wikipedia structures and processes are not necessarily trolls.
The basic mindset of a troll is that they are far more interested in how others react to their edits than in the usual concerns of Wikipedians: accuracy, veracity, comprehensiveness, and overall quality. If a troll gets no response to their spurious edits, then they can hardly be considered a troll at all.
Wikipedia Founder Jimbo Wales giving a lecture on dealing with trolls.
The basic policy regarding trolling is simple: please refrain.”
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 31, 2011
at 3:06 PM
SWatcher –
We all throw around terms like bigot and troll, but what do you consider as the definition of troll? How can I identify a troll, say, on this blog?
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By: PFesser on May 31, 2011
at 2:25 PM
Noah,
Conversation, Noah. Start from this point on, not go backwards. At least your language is cleaned up, but you still carry the monk on your back.
I don’t really care for it when either side hurls insults. If it makes you feel better, your insults are the greatest insults. What is occurring is that you get more riled up with the insults thrown at you; and your insultees (reciprients of insulters) tend to get ticked off, than forget about it.
As for JuneauJoe, his postings have always been links to sites and less verbiage. To some that don’t like that style, too bad. For those who like it, we check it out. For those who don’t care, just cruise on by.
Funny, I could decipher maineh’s post just fine. Her message has been in the same vein as many of the other Liberal posters in reference to trolls, including mine.
Sorry about your husband Mageen. Being diagnosed with cancer is horrible, but the advances in research and treatment have been fantastic lately. Brother in law was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer last year. It’s been 18 months, and he has only missed 4 days of work due to side effects from a drug. Prayers for you and yours.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 31, 2011
at 2:09 PM
maineh,
Its good that you have come here to contribute and discuss issues.
Not until you learn how to do that without attacking, perhaps you should just observe.
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By: Craig on May 31, 2011
at 2:00 PM
Can somebody decipher maineh’s post in English please? Ebonics never was my thing. I did get enough from it to to respond: wwwaahhhh….
Here’s a site where you can prattle to your heart’s delight without thinking and free from the insecurity of head slaps. A potato head’s dream. You can honestly make a site so irrelevant and mundane like that listed below, no one would bother:
http://chatterclatter.wordpress.com/
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By: Wayne Perram on May 31, 2011
at 1:34 PM
Returning to this site to lurk and read, I see things have been dominated by a sick few. so much ups-man-ship by a few who can’t seem to post where people of like minds would agree and keep their egos all inflated. Seems like they have othr “inflation” issues….
Too bad, M&H’s blog used to be funny, and a pleasure to read. Someone mentioned pervert and trolls. well, those posters dominating this page seem to be getting off on their big egos and small brains. how sad that this country has people like this.
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By: maineh on May 31, 2011
at 12:23 PM
Mageen, like delurkergurl, I would stop by your house with a pie. I would give you a break as neighbors gave us when it was our turn. I believe mental toughness and attitude can still make a difference.
I heard the Clinton conversation too. He is a smart man. As you wrote, he knows Medicare is going down. When it does, people will die before their time, and that is also a fact.
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By: James on May 31, 2011
at 10:16 AM
Raji,
No doubt. Every time Lawrence Eagleburger appeared on screen and I heard him speak, I’d think Reagan’s cabinet was in every way superior to what we’ve had since. Good men choose good men. Part of the problem is Raji, after the Bork and Thomas public lynchings which were started by the Left, quality people for the most part quit seeking public office. Nobody of any character is going to subject their families to the brutality.
That’s why Obama’s choices are so rotten. Really, Obama’s cabinet has been a farce. Joe Biden may be the dumbest man I’ve ever heard speak. Or, he’s the best comedian I’ve ever listened to. Perhaps the smartest one, Pharaoh Rahm, a rat by any other name, fled the sinking ship quickly. I predict Hillary will bail given the chance to save face.
The Clintons are scum, completely self-absorbed and they are ruthless. But they are a thousand times smarter than this B crew we’ve got now. Clinton was a philanderer and sleaze, but he was a smart sleaze. Clinton himself was caught on tape the other day with Paul Ryan – happy that this lying harpy had won in NY26, but Clinton knows Medicare is going down the tubes and Clinton exhorted Ryan to stay the course. That’s a fact.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 31, 2011
at 8:44 AM
Yeah, I know. I expect that. But I’m not whining about the crap thrown back. You and your flock of floundering geese are. I don’t whine about needing help, or ganging up, or making it personal. You do…
Hate is such a strong word. Intense dislike, distrust and disgust.
Old Juneau should learn a lesson from this SW. He came in here one night, thinking he had cover with the rest of the geese and popped off a few insults right in a row of poor quality my way, all amongst the mix of the typical squawking. All the little women gathered to play bully like they’d always done to the one lonesome voice. Yuck, yuck, yuck. Wee wee wee!
Surprise!
So I returned Joe’s little bomb throwing with one daisy cutter of my own. The hunting dog appeared on the golf course, and the chatty kitchen geese ran back to safe refuge, leaving Slow Joe hanging out with pecker in his hand while I chased him around the course. His geese were no where to be found. Shame, as I was looking for a late night snack.
So don’t whimper when I play by the rules of your game Silent and manage to shoot the low score. Frankly, I fail to see the harm of teaching a few of your mouthier schmucks a lesson in humility. Lord knows their intellect isn’t going to carry them, so perhaps they should follow your lead, remain silent and watch.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 31, 2011
at 8:28 AM
Raji –
Yeah, technically. But most of the time I see it as Senate and Congress, “Senator” and “Congressman” when in fact Congress is both. I’m a little vague about how that works. Some here are more in the know about that. I think lori or James could probably get me straight.
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By: PFesser on May 31, 2011
at 8:11 AM
Pfessor
#4 I agree with the concept. One correction, shouldn’t it be Senate and House instead of Senate and Congress?
Okay now I’m signed out!
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By: Raji on May 31, 2011
at 8:05 AM
Raji –
I agree, but you need to think below the surface of what you see. What makes you think my reply was sincere?
The Perv meme is not a legitimate argument and we all know it. It is nothing but pure frustration by JJoe at his inability to handle Noah, whom he regards as a lower life form.
I will go to the mat as far as anyone wants to go; you wanna play “pervert?” I’ll play with you – as deep as you want (so to speak).
You be sincere; I’ll be sincere. You wanna play? I’m your huckleberry.
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By: PFesser on May 31, 2011
at 8:00 AM
More about Warren Buffet:
He and his late wife were separated, in actuality if not legally. She came to Omaha for social functions etc. Warren advocated raising the inheritance tax, and claimed he wasn’t going to give billions to his children. I think he gave them millions. His definition of a pittance is different from most.
Buffet once said he had been a bad father, but he could have been a good father and still fallen short of his ideals. His children seem to be good productive citizens.
Sarah Palin still has her Fox contract, and when someone asked if she was running, she said “I don’t know.” Her trip is getting attention, and discussion. If I were Palin, I would make the tour to merely to discombobulate people and to keep people thinking about me.
She and Danica Patrick, the race car driver share superficial traits. Both are attractive and likable. Both are steel-willed, and willing to fight. Neither has lived up to earlier promise, though Danica led some laps in the Indianapolis 500. Sarah Palin left the governorship, and Danica is flirting with NASCAR.
I made the comparison mainly to adgitate my wife since we both like Danica and she thinks comparing Sarah with her is an insult to Danica.
Democrats may win the public relations battle, and if they win, we will all lose without a workable plan to reduce the deficit. I read a poll showing more doctors plan to quit or retire early after Obamacare. Others will refuse to treat Medicare patients.
The slow motion Missouri River flood continues. More people are evacuating.
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By: James on May 31, 2011
at 7:54 AM
Thanks Delurker, the one I read was a sent to me in snail mail, if I can find it on the net I’ll post it, if you’re interested.
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By: lori on May 31, 2011
at 7:53 AM
Wayne
I agree that the Regan era was an effective government on both international and domestic fronts. I also think that we had a higher quality of statesmen in our Congress during that era. Certainly a higher quality than what sits in Congress today.
Now that more information has come forth regarding Regan’s dementia, Nancy Regan may well have been our first female president.
Dial-up is bad at it’s best but with all the posts now at M&H, I probably won’t be able to post very often and unlike Cynthia I don’t plan to drive 50 miles to download.
Before signing off, I assume most posters have noticed my “peace” avatar. I go to great lengths to try to be diplomatic in what I say. However, just this once I do make one request. Juneau Joe please give up the constant “pervert” rant and Pfessor, your reply was juvenile. It does not suit either of you or this blog.
Peace 😉
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By: Raji on May 31, 2011
at 7:48 AM
Cynthia –
Again – I am dead serious. It’s one thing to complain; it’s another to suggest reforms that will get us straightened out.
#4 No re-election. Longer terms (gets around the old saw that it requires two terms or more to get anything done) Requires another Constitutional amendment. “Congressional terms shall comprise one eight-year term for the Senate, one four-year term for Congress. Any Senator or Congressman shall, upon completion of his term, be ineligible to be elected to the same office for a period of two terms: sixteen years for Senators, eight years for Congressmen. The President and Vice-president shall serve a single six-year term and thence be ineligible for election to the same office for a period of twelve years hence.”
Thoughts?
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By: PFesser on May 31, 2011
at 7:41 AM
Lori, here’s a NYT piece about the study you mentioned:
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By: delurkergurl on May 31, 2011
at 7:38 AM
Awwww Mageen, I’m sorry to hear the battle will need to continue for a while longer. If I lived closer I’d bring you a meal or help you with your housework. Instead, I’ll respond by joining your battle cry against cancer and make a donation on your behalf.
If anyone else is looking to make a contribution on Mageen’s behalf, please do a little homework first. According to this, the American Cancer Society doesn’t put much of what it raises into research:
http://www.preventcancer.com/losing/acs/wealthiest_links.htm
Here is one list of top-rated charities:
http://www.charitywatch.org/toprated.html
I’m not familiar with all of them, but my favorite is CureSearch. 94.6% of every dollar raised by CureSearch goes toward research for pediatric cancer. They aren’t as well known as some other cancer charities because they don’t spend a fortune on marketing.
If your employer has a matching gift program, be sure to take advantage of it.
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By: delurkergurl on May 31, 2011
at 7:33 AM
Thankyou alaskapi, Joe and any others who mentioned veterans. Alaskapi, I especially liked your heart-felt thoughts.
The traveling wall is in Omaha this week. The first time we saw it, our children were eight and six. They thought I looked bothered, so our son sang the Star Spangled Banner, and our daughter patted my hand. Its great to have children.
Several years later, we looked for a friend, and another man stood nearby. Our surprise was we both were looking for the same man. We had known him at different times in our lives. We spent over a half hour comparing notes about him and had some good laughs.
Our son and I made a special trip to the wall a few hours before our daughter’s high school graduation party.
It was 90 yesterday with 50 MPH south wind gusts all day. The strong cold front brought an expected squall line. At least nine tornadoes, storms with up to grape fruit sized hail, and and wind gusts to 90 MPH were in the area. The storms weakened a bit as they reached the Missouri River.
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By: James on May 31, 2011
at 7:32 AM
“Still miles to go.. but I like where we are at this time…” One American POW to another, Bataan, 1942
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By: PFesser on May 31, 2011
at 6:56 AM
Good morning friends! I hope everyone had an enjoyable weekend!
Cynthia, I absolutely agree, campaign rules MUST be changed.. Public elections I say!!!!
Given M&H’s interest in Texas politics, I bet we will be hearing from them again soon as Mr. Goodhair contemplates a run for the roses. I await with bated breath both his candidacy and M&H’s response! LOL LOL They will be equally enjoyable.
There was a flood of polling results released over the weekend. One of the most interesting to me was a report showing doctors are leaving the Republican party in droves. I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised since the AMA backed Obama’s healthcare reform that the republicans vehemently tried to block in addition to the fact that physicians are leaving their private practice, instead opting to work for large healthcare systems where malpractice insurance is usually provided. Add that to the addition of many more women and minorities entering the profession and we have the republican party and it’s agenda no longer being as comfy of a fit it once was.
This is just yet another example of just how out of touch the Republican party has become as the demographics and culture of our country continue to change and evolve. Huff po talks about this in their lead article this morning. It will be interesting to see if the party remains on it’s hard right course or if it changes direction to become more aligned with main stream America reflecting the more current social problems our country faces. We shall see…In the mean time I welcome all their cast offs! 😉
Other polls are showing really strong standing for Dems in the much needed states of Ohio and WI. I haven’t seen a MI poll lately, but it’s likely to reflect the same. Florida’s governor is bottoming out, hopefully that will translate over to the generic dem vs rep soon. Still miles to go.. but I like where we are at this time…
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By: lori on May 31, 2011
at 6:18 AM
Anyone else think I should have come concerns of having a cyber stalker? This makes what, the 3rd time delurkergurl has checked out my name to see how many times it appears in this blog? Whats up with that?
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By: Noah on May 31, 2011
at 5:50 AM
delurkergurl, you are as predictable as my morning dump. Right on que to offer your unsolicited 2 cents of legendary advice. Thanks for always being you.
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By: Noah on May 31, 2011
at 5:43 AM
dgurl –
re: noah’s posting frequency.
Seems about right to me. Those with something to say should do so. Those who don’t should be silent.
My suggestion is that if you can’t take the heat, get into the kitchen. Nobody will challenge your bigoted illogic there, I’ll guarantee *that.*
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By: PFesser on May 31, 2011
at 5:32 AM
Memorial Day here was a good quiet one which is preferable to all the commotion we have been going through as of late. Husband has just found out he will be getting an additional 2 more months of chemo. He’s still doing pretty good but there are some side effects that I have mentioned before and with 2 more months added to his program, they are likely to get worse and there is even a chance that some others could pop up. But we had quiet time fun with some of his recollections of his own military service, some puttering around the back yard and, of course, burgers on the grill. Could not for a moment think upon whoever was out and about exercising their “politics” for all the world to see. Reflection was where we were at.
Consequently finally stumbled back to this blog and was astounded at some of the stuff I saw. I have known the Ad Hominems all my life. Grandpa and his brothers ran a bar for awhile. Lots of that stuff went down along with a very cold beer, but they never brought their customers ranting home with them. Ran into the Ad Hominems again in undergrad years when the frat guys got together to parse the world order. Knew it for what it was —- gas, natural gas! Never once, though, did I ever hear any of the Ad Hominems recommend, as damn near a marching order I ever heard, that certain people be considered mortal enemies and done away with. I got a sudden flash of somebody who just might have a hobby of stomping kittens when I heard that one.
This is one of the most wide open blogs I have ever encountered. It is also wide open to the Internet Service Providers and whoever is at the Hoover Bullding or working in the shadow of Nathan Hale at Langley checking “chatter”. Checking “chatter” is not limited only to off shore stuff emanating from certain countries. Threatening or coming a hair’s difference close to that is downright dangerous. Yeah, we have freedom of speech. We also have freedom OF responsbility.
Now I’m going to cook comething for my cancer fighting husband. If any of you are of a chronic fighting mood, that’s one thing I wish you all would fight against. It is a completely rotten disease. Go for it!
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 31, 2011
at 5:29 AM
How the Democrat party is owned by the rich. Originally in Mother Jones, a *LEFT* wing publication if there ever was one.
http://www.alternet.org/story/151108/why_the_democratic_party_has_abandoned_the_middle_class_in_favor_of_the_rich
Of course we have known for decades that they were owned by the trial lawyers.
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By: PFesser on May 31, 2011
at 5:27 AM
As of right now, there are about 1300 comments on this thread. My browser search feature says the word ‘noah’ is on this page over 300 times – far more than Helen and Margaret combined and it’s their blog. That’s about enough, don’t you think? It makes it hard to find anything else worth reading. Whatever it is that he needs, he’s getting an abundance of. He can insist on being the center of attention all he wants but nobody is required to comply. (Wayne and Pfess are coming in at closer to 200 each. Just sayin’.)
Margaret and Helen are why we’re here, right? Can we get back to that before there’s nobody left?
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By: delurkergurl on May 31, 2011
at 5:14 AM
Silent Watcher, you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I can see you condone these activities as long as they go in one direction, to people like me. For you to spend this much time going after the person being attacked and none, zero, on those doing it, proves it. It is a double standard I am used to but end of the day we will just have to agree to disagree. You and yours find it in your hearts to be human beings, I will treat you as such. Get in my face, attack me or my family, I will kick you in the nuts every time. That is on you. Subject closed, the final word is yours if you want it.
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By: Noah on May 31, 2011
at 3:43 AM
Bikers deal with Westboro Church in Joplin.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/bikers-westboro-baptist
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 31, 2011
at 12:34 AM
Silent watcher – good advice to Noah.
Carbon numbers are worse than any previous projections. Temperatures could rise by 4 degrees unless we cut down the carbon we pump out.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/may/29/carbon-emissions-nuclearpower
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 31, 2011
at 12:15 AM
Noah,
Don’t take this the wrong way. Get over it.
Stop carrying the monk on your back.
For the sake of your wife and child, learn to forgive and forget or your life will be full of anger, hatred, and vendettas. Not a good father figure for the young one.
“Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” That was a childhood refrain, but words did hurt. They continue to hurt if you don’t let go of the insult and wrap yourself in it as a righteous cloak.
Actually, by repeatedly reminding yourself and your tormentors about the specific incidences of disparaging insults, you empower the tormentors. If I were them, I’d be crowing each time I saw my name and the anger it generated then and still today. Not good for your health and mindset.
Don’t expect apologies. I don’t think anyone here expects apologies from you. Call it a draw and move on.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 31, 2011
at 12:04 AM
Citizen’s United was a con job pulled on Justice Kennedy. Kennedy promised it would require full disclosure – not even close.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-23/was-the-court-conned-in-citizens-united-.html
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 11:55 PM
A Vietnam veteran writes a letter to Sarah Palin on this Memorial Day!
http://memspoliticalscrapbook.blogspot.com/2011/05/vietnam-veterans-letter-to-sarah-palin.html
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 11:37 PM
Silent Watcher It is as it has always been, on a case by case basis, that is what I have been trying to get through to you. Since I never instigate, the hostilities are always on stand down until someone decides that they need to make it personal. I see nothing to be gained by attacking a person rather than their ideology and I am not as you suggested looking for a win.
And example of an attack that I am referring to is for example when No One’s Puppet said: Noah, how are you supporting that baby? You do remember the baby right? I just ask, because you are here during the day and again at night, I can’t imagine an employer putting up with that, not in this economy.
Or when Elsie had to make disparaging remarks about my child and wife.
In both cases nothing preempted the personal attack. They were just posted for no particular reason. I don’t see the need for it but that is when I get defensive and attack back, and I don’t think I should be faulted for it. Now before and after when they were not being petty, I responded in kind and was nice in return. Again it is just those select few who go out of their way time and again that I take issue with.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 11:36 PM
The GOP have not been helpful to military personnel having financial problems.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/161028/gop-no-friend-military-members-struggling-during-recession
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 11:10 PM
Thank you for the welcome, Auntie Jean.
Wayne, what did you mean by quoting from the About box? Those weren’t my words. I’m neither one of the hosts or Matthew. Just a bystander that liked the Liberal ideas and the way Helen could kick butt. If I were Helen, I don’t think I would have posted as mildly as I have.
But if you did think I was Helen, thank you. I consider that one of the highest compliments of my life.
A listing of facts is not attack. Facts are solid evidence, not opinion. Calling people names and insinuating how inferior people are is attack, especially in a site that is very much left of the right.
So you don’t like President Obama. Your choice. However if you come to a place that likes our current president and start hurling epitaphs of hate upon him, you’ll get a lot of crap thrown back at you.
Noah, so you won’t concede because people called you names first. I didn’t say to concede or apologize. I was hoping you would just move on from the past and be civil.
Believe it or not, most people aren’t reading what I am writing right now. It’s their choice. If people don’t want to read what you post, does that make you mad? Get over it. Get over the insults that are hurled at you or don’t expect others to get over the insults you hurled at them. If you want to be declared the winner, then I’ll tell you right now, you are the winner. You had the best arsenal of insults in this blog site, you are really good at the hurls.
You are the best at throwing any criticism, constructive or destructive, back at the thrower and calling them the same. That’s not conversation to learn. That’s juvenile playground behavior, and you do want to us out of Jr. high, so begin with thee.
Do you know one of the best ways to learn? It is by listening, or in the case of this blog, reading. If you ask a question and no one wants to answer, call it what it is – silence. It isn’t agreement, surrender, or anything victorious.
btw, I was genuinely impressed with the answer you gave to delurkergurl’s question, Why are you here when you could be anywhere else. It was a great answer. If only your comments could be as succinct and intelligent. I was hoping they could be from this point on.
May I suggest that you and your friends refrain from the insults (you won already) and the put downs if you want a true conversation.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 30, 2011
at 11:10 PM
Everybody here ready for a little Sarah Palin?
Ann Telnaes: Political Animations from Ann Telnaes – The Was…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/telnaes?hpid=z3
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By: No One's Puppet on May 30, 2011
at 10:54 PM
This is a great look at Sarah Palin and her impact on the 2012 election.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-gops-self-destruction-derby/2011/05/27/AGKtTzEH_story.html?fb_ref=NetworkNews&fb_source=home_multiline
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 10:53 PM
As I stated I used to agree with your point of view. Here is why I feel it is beneficial and ultimately necessary. The American people proved conclusively with prohibition that when they want something there is little the government can do about it.
We spend billions on a failed war on drugs that is not winnable because of the aforementioned reason. By making them legal the following should happen.
Day 1
The war on drugs is won. I wrote this paper some 10+ years ago so the info is dated but still relevant. A $200 day heroin habit can be manufactured for about $5. We can increase that price to $25 for a nice profit margin and still make it impossible for those overseas to compete. We win the war through financial victory, in the tradition of the best President of the 20th century did with the Soviet Union.
With those profits the war on drugs becomes self funding. We have paid for drug education. We have free clinics for people who which to stop taking drugs. We save a boat load of money that we were paying to fight this drug war and can funnel it into paying our debt, social security, health reform, whatever.
My research at the time showed that nearly 50% of crime had some connection to drugs. Again by achieving this financial victory we have eliminated the black market and all that goes with that. With the victory on the drug war we should see a major decrease in crimes.
In one shot we have decreased government spending, won the war on drugs, decreased crime, and found a major new source of revenue to fund our economic and social programs. We have defunded the terrorists who use this money to launch attacks against us and our allies.
I agree there is a price to pay for this legalization but I think the gains are far exceeded by what we would lose. Personally I think the overall gene pool would be improved by having certain lines self terminate. Those being hurt would be those making the choice to do the drugs rather than what we have today having innocent by standers being shot down in our streets and good cops killed on the job.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 10:44 PM
Jean The old grammar school dodge of, “Well, he hit me first!” doesn’t wash with grownups.
I find this a popular point of view with most Liberals. No personal responsibility for ones own actions.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 10:21 PM
Noah, I do not approve of the idea of legalizing illegal drugs. While it may be a better solution now in comparison to the joke of “war on drugs” which has been a miserable failure, the facts are that we have a terrible and costly problem with illicit drug use, and the fed controlling them and taxing them doesn’t address the real issue of abusing them.
People bitch about recreational drug users making up a large part of the prison population (baloney – distributors make up a large part). But are they then ready to guarantee an increase in larceny, petty theft, and massive shop lifting costs? Because I guarantee you it will happen. Many of these recreational drug users are also lifetime petty criminals who will happily steal your mower or the aluminum from your air conditioner to buy another bag,
My solution is that we have always concentrated on the supply of illegal drugs which we simply can not control, never paying real attention to the problem of demand, which is where our attention should have always been focused. Yes, I know we’ve made some lousy public education commercials and taught drugs and alcohol classes in high school. But are we really educating the public like we have with the danger of cigarettes?
I’m wondering. Do Americans know that their abuse is lending financing to people that wish to kill them? Do they really know that contrary to popular opinion, weed is not some harmless recreational drug, and in fact as the years go by, we are only now discovering real long term health consequences, including COPD and memory loss – possibly affiliated with increased risks of early dementia? We won’t even mention mood altering, which I have personally witnessed with high school friends, now burnt out dopers of no use.
The Fed controls alcohol, taxes the hell out of it, and still 10% of the adults in America are alcoholics. The problem is not the drugs or the availability, but the abuse.
I have some suggestions. And I would guess about 2% of the American public would agree with me at this moment. M&H screamers will call me abusive, a devil, a child beater. You watch. 🙂
But I am a big believer in public humiliation, shame, and most importantly pain – as in having your ass caned for a second offense. You give me a bamboo shoot with a few holes, and the legal permission to leave a couple of scars, and I’ll guarantee you that I can give someone a real long-term attitude adjustment pronto.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 9:54 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Well said, Silent Watcher. The old grammar school dodge of, “Well, he hit me first!” doesn’t wash with grownups.
I have always admired Helen for her tolerance of the obnoxious. Over the years on this blog, she has allowed and put up with varying degrees of regressive points of view along with the usual narcissists and schizoid personalities coming out of the woodwork. Some of them have and do take advantage of her generosity, i.e., the current trio of would-be Macho Honchos. Actually that is Helen and Mathew’s problem, not mine. It does sort of remind me though of what a good friend said about not allowing a drunk from a nice restaurant/bar to follow us home. If the place does not have a bouncer, then perhaps it is time to find another one with a more congenial atmosphere.
I see M&H’s now as something like all the bulk junk mail of no importance we get in the U.S. mail and always have. Much of it DEMANDS AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE!!!! USUALLY IN BIG RED LETTERS ON THE ENVEOLPE!!! We glance at it and then consign it to the trash. Then we move on, write, call and talk to the people we care about and shrug off the rest. There are still some genuinely good people who come here to read at least and occasionally share their thoughts. Like you, Silent Watcher, your are especially welcomed.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 30, 2011
at 9:52 PM
Remember whose house you are in. It doesn’t matter who attacked who first or second or on and on.
I will not concede this point. Why? Because of statements like this.
If you can keep it civil and respectful, more people might read you.
They had no reason in the first place not to read me, as I gave them none. It matters because the instigators are what took this board to where it was/is. I didn’t start the fight but I won’t shy from it and I will finish it. It is each and every individuals choice to treat me civil or not. I can deal with both people and that is the point. Civil discourse will always be returned in kind. If you cannot compose yourself in such a way and you feel the need to attack me personally, there is a price to be paid for that choice. With all that I do I don’t have the inclination or the time to keep score, so with the exception of a few who repeatedly cannot stop making personal attacks, I deal with it on a case by case issue. My preference by far is to have my ideas challenged, and leave the personal crap back in Jr. High where it belongs.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 9:38 PM
Silent Watcher – so in this open blog, in a forum that advertises as political debate, where supposedly you market yourself as the enlightened and educated political elect, are the rules on “your open blog” to parrot the author’s meme, genuflect to your wishes, and kiss the ring of men like Juneau Joe?
As reminder:
My grandson has been known to remove some remarks and has even banned a few bad apples from future comments. Margaret and I think some of you are a hoot and we think others are full of bullshit. But all are welcome – within reason – and considering some of my rants, within reason goes a long way in my book. The f-word (you decide which one) gets you an automatic kick in the ass. Same goes for the N word.
Your words; not mine.
Because your tacit threat to Noah sounds to me an awfully lot like cowardice and double standard, and a conflict of interest to your published About box; and if so and those are your rules like that uber wimp Jim Wright, you ought to publish what he does right in the banner so there is no misunderstanding or confusion.
And you’ll forgive me if what you call “attack” is generally a listing of “fact” that doesn’t coincide with the perception of what you from the left wish it to be, instead of the harsh reality of what is.
You like our current President. And I disdain Obama, think he’s a reprehensible idiot, bully and charlatan, dangerously inept, and possibly the worst President in the United States History. And that is what you publish as the ground rules in your About Box. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 9:34 PM
Noah,
Remember whose house you are in. It doesn’t matter who attacked who first or second or on and on.
We still have scars of Bush. We like our current President.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 30, 2011
at 8:45 PM
Noah’s response to why he is here:
“There are a group of people in this society who do not fear their opposition. There are people in this world who are not so closed minded as to want to learn about those who do not see the world as they do. To do that one must step out and go to places where people don’t share your views and you must converse with them. Some of us find value in that, I know I do.”
Great words, thank you again.
I am your opposition, as many are that agree with Margaret and Helen, and not with you. We are not all close minded. We all have some of the opposition as friends, and we still don’t buy it, just as they don’t buy our points. Genuine conversation without name calling is good for all. If you can keep it civil and respectful, more people might read you.
Learning about them is easy. Learning from them is impossible if each has their own agenda.
Converse is good. If no one wants to converse, that is their right and no reason to condemn.
Hope you stay the course and continue in your mission. If you are not welcome at every door, don’t get mad at the door closers. Find another door to knock at.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 30, 2011
at 8:39 PM
Wayne, what is your take, if you were king, on the legalizing of drugs and turning it into an industry? I wrote a research paper on it that was initially against it but by the end of the paper and to this day I am very much for it.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 8:23 PM
Silent Watcher, you should review your history a bit closer. I have always been attacked first, always. I will not apologize for returning fire on those who could not find it within themselves to attack my ideas rather than me.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 8:21 PM
Wayne and Noah,
Thank you, that was good civil discourse rather than insult and bash that have been your m.o. in the past. If you can keep it in the past, you are big boys.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 30, 2011
at 8:19 PM
that we could possibly tax enough to cover all that we have on the books today.
Should read that we couldn’t possibly tax enough to cover all the debt we have today.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 8:19 PM
Why are you here when you could be anywhere else?
There are a group of people in this society who do not fear their opposition. There are people in this world who are not so closed minded as to want to learn about those who do not see the world as they do. To do that one must step out and go to places where people don’t share your views and you must converse with them. Some of us find value in that, I know I do.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 8:14 PM
I am back from a day out in the weather. 89 degrees and about 60% humidity. But I would not shirk my grilling duties for the gathered family. As we have a new member of the household now 5 weeks old there were a lot of introductions to make, I must have cooked 20 lbs of animal flesh today. Got myself a nice little burn going on my nose and neck.
Thanks for posting Cynthia. Glad you had a good holiday. On your responses.
What would you do if you were President?
I couldn’t agree more with your response. I think the level of preoccupation of self and career have lead our politicians astray. I think nothing short of sweeping reforms have any hope of fixing this problem. I think the only way this will occur is for a 3rd party to emerge and take charge.
To the answer to : What would you do if you were President?
“I believe taxes, SS, Medicare, WIC, Education grants, unemployment comp, Fair Wages, Unions etc are the PRICE of ADMISSION to a stable, secure, productive, successful, civilized society/country. Social safety nets are there to solve a problem; privatizing has proven to lower the quality and raise the costs. ”
I find these programs to be necessary ones. The problem is that for many they have become a crutch. The safety net has become a way of life for many. For these social programs to work as they were intended back in the day, you have to have typically 5+ time the people paying in to those receiving benefits. Back then we had it. Today we do not. Yesterday we did not. Last year we did not. Through debt we have been substantiating these programs. Well the chickens have come home to roost and the tab needs to get paid. I cannot in good consciousness burden my newborn daughter with my problems. We are very fast reaching a point of unsustainable debt, so we have a choice to make. Restructure the programs to a sustainable level so there is some safety net still in place, or run ourselves into the ground and have nothing at all.
As things stand now I do not believe with our current debt load and social programs as they currently are, that we could possibly tax enough to cover all that we have on the books today. If you can show me the math that makes it work please enlighten me.
I am undecided on the wall, but I do know something nearly as drastic is necessary. We MUST secure our boarders. We must punish those that employ illegals, get rid of the anchor baby program, and deport all those who are here illegally. This is something that imo needs to be done yesterday. Secure the boarders first then work out the details of temp passes and such.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 8:11 PM
I don’t know about that leading us into battle Pfesser. I cede your point about walking the walk, but most of these guy are so cowardly and inane, they’re liable to get good soldiers killed by playing pet rock while lying down on the job. How about we use them as bait, along with every member of Code Pink? 🙂
I think if I were king, the first thing I would do is open Anwar, drill baby drill right off the coasts, including but not limited to oil shale, start the construction of 50 new nuclear plants, close the Dept. of Education and Energy, giving the proceeds all the military actually fighting and their families as a one time bonus, shit can the Fed and moving us back to the gold standard, invoke a new amendment of no nation building – you can bomb like hell, but you can’t build unless it’s to get our tanks and our troops across the river, put a Harpoon Cruise Missile into Hugo Chavez’s front door just for grins, tell the Sauds the welcome mat is now out for Al Qaida and good luck, and close the U.N. giving them 24 hours to move it to Babylon before we blow it up.
That would be a pretty good day’s work for starters.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 8:01 PM
Light bulb is on.
“Why are you here when you could be anywhere else?” Good question from delurkergurl.
“Most already talk to each other elsewhere. There’s a hostility / domination thing going at both sites, but there must be something else about being here as opposed to other places.” Good comment by delurkergurl.
Spotlight on.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 30, 2011
at 8:01 PM
Here we go. Found it in my old email. Good old gmail and Google searches. Apologies for its length. I am not lazy enough to just post links.
A friend of mine sent me a wonderful piece called “Catching the Wild Pig”. For those of you who have never heard this parable (and I hadn’t until now), here it is:
A chemistry professor at a large college had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab the Professor noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back, and stretching as if his back hurt. The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country’s government and install a new communist government.
In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked, ‘Do you know how to catch wild pigs?’ The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said this was no joke. ‘You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come every day to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again.
You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat; you slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught.
Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.
The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening to America. The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. While we continually lose our freedoms — just a little at a time.
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 7:29 PM
War in the GOP- interesting, Wall Street and Corporations are telling the GOP to pass the debt ceiling. The tea party group is saying Do Not pass the debt ceiling.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2011%2F05%2F27%2FINOV1JK6IH.DTL
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 7:23 PM
re: doctors and changing attitudes.
Yes, there are some who are just tired of fighting the fight. There is an old story on the ‘net about how you trap hogs by putting down corn, then building four walls, one at a time, and then you close the gate and there you have it. I see some of my colleagues walking into this enclosure every day because they are just tired, or they are female and didn’t realize that they couldn’t have a family and be a doctor and now they want to renege.
When Clinton got his “healthcare” shoved down his throat, he is reputed to have said, “Fine! We’ll make it so onerous to be a doctor they will be begging us to take over health care.” Looks like we’re getting there; my friend Joe tells me he does two hours of paperwork on his own time every night.
I hope you enjoy the new medicine; you might want to take a little trip to Canada or England to see how medical care run by the govt works. A classmate did a month in England; his day consisted of: arrive sometime around 9 or 10. See 2-3 patients with your “consultant” and then go to lunch. Have a couple of pints and play darts. Come back around 2. See 2-3 more patients and then go home. “Did you learn anything?” “No, but I sure learned how to play darts.” This is what happens when you make it so onerous that the smart and ambitious go into other fields. Hope you like it.
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 7:18 PM
A town in AL is blown down. They are told they can get FEMA trailers to house families. The mayor says no trailers allowed. Pretty sad.
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/al-mayor-no-fema-trailers-allowed-tor
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 7:10 PM
Cynthia –
“Pfesser,
Are you mocking me? Of course it would take a dictator to do what I said”
No absolutely not! My wife and I have talked about this a lot, and I always say, “Make me king – not president, king – and I know what I would do.” I have ideas but have never heard anyone else say such a thing.
I’ll go first if you want to play:
Firstly, it could only be 24 hours and only one time, so I would have to prioritize. I think first I would institute the proposed (28th?) amendment you see floating around the Internet: Congress shall make no laws that apply to the people that do not equally apply to Congress. (and vice versa(
Secondly, another amendment: No military action shall be undertaken except upon a 2/3 vote of approval by the Senate and House of Representatives. They shall, by lot, select 25 of their members to lead the first troops into battle.
All currency shall be backed by hard assets, gold and silver, and any citizen may demand same from the government at any time in exchange for paper currency.
OK – that is my first three. Anybody else want to play?
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 7:02 PM
Sure Joe. And physicians are in favor of more Medicare cuts too. 🙄 Joe, Oblammo’s health care issue is DOA. Give it up… you’re once again reading more propaganda. If the SCOTUS doesn’t overturn it, states will.
Better start paying the physicians way to school Joe – guys like you are going to be lucky to find a physician that will take you soon, and I have that on good word. Hope you got cash in your pocket. I’ve got doctors in waiting in mine. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 6:57 PM
By the way Silent. If you’re fond of reading RUTHERFORD LAWSON’s blog and too scared to call it by name, perhaps you’ve also noticed Rutherford is without doubt the sharpest of the “liberals” in debate, and your pals here also mobbed him here.
Maybe, one day the light bulb might come on. ❗
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 6:50 PM
Doctors are favoring the changes to medical policy which President Obama got passed.
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 6:48 PM
Silent, old hat. You read like a Jumpin’ Jimmy Wright rube, too scared to enter the fray.
I’m indestructible and incognito – psttt. I’m also too lazy to change my IP at this minute and change names too. Personally, I wish old Matt would just get rid of the block so I could revert to my former self.
You’re at least 24 hours too late. Your better sister Puppet beat you to it – or are you like Juneau, and none too bright either to read? Please see above.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 6:47 PM
Juneau,
From the another website, posting by your opposition:
[Wayne Perram | May 29, 2011 at 12:25 am
😳 I keep leaving more retorts to the morons at Fat Grannies, who surprisingly haven’t canned me yet, and forget to change my name.]
Quit feeding them.
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By: Silent Watcher on May 30, 2011
at 6:24 PM
Raji,
Reagan…certainly the best in my lifetime. Not even a close second. Not even disputable amongst fair people – both foreign and domestic record.
And before that, the last good one? I might cast my vote for Truman, about one hundred times the man FDR was. Of course, sixty years ago, I probably would have been called a Conservative Democrat. I’m not sure those exist anymore.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 6:21 PM
Juneau, you rugged individualist you,
I documented for the rubes above in great detail exactly what I would do as President. No need to answer again. It was probably too complicated for you to understand and required a bit of thought, so you skipped it. In a nutshell, anybody that thinks Dennis Kucinich somebody of potential doesn’t deserve the effort I put into the initial response.
I’ve heard this parroting meme all before… ** YAWN ** And it’s utter and complete horseshit. Did you guys and gals know I used to be like Harvey Milk and Bernie Sanders too, and then the party left me {cough cough}. 🙄
Was Republican, but not the same party, independent….just love, love, love Obama now – replete with hints of abortion on demand, burn the bra, misandry, and host other bullshit I’m too lazy to list.
San Francisco quality schtick – Nanzi Pelosi personified. Come on gals…
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 6:14 PM
JuneauJoe,
Even though I can’t click “like” on this comment, I Like! I suppose you mean on your Facebook page?
Cynthia,
You haven’t missed much. You have been mocked but it doesn’t matter. They were good ideas.
Raji,
We have become a global economy and so your idea of a president for international affairs is a good one, though it would have the conspiracy folks screaming about the “New World Order.”
Remember when Whirled Peas used to have the “Why We Fought” site up? The Industrialized Military Complex is alive and well – that began in the 60’s.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 30, 2011
at 6:06 PM
Juneau, with your ‘rugged individualism’ at the car wash like Jumpin’ Jimmy Wright and his ugly wood working (has Alaska become a refuge for disgruntled Vets or something? I guess y’all missed the train to Canada when trying to go AWOL), you’re probably not very familiar with Joplin, MO. I am.
See Joe, Joplin is about 72% Republican in voting, explaining why unlike L.A. ghettoville, or Minneapolis, or Chicago (El Bongo’s rancid home turf), or any home ground of leftyville, Joplin has had little problem with looting and stealing from lowlifes like you. Joplin, MO, is made up of salt of the earth people who are capable of taking care of their own and rebuilding – a concept completely foreign to Libs, who don’t know anything but dysfunction and government handout i.e. – New Orleans. SAVE ME OBAMA! SAVE ME!
So as usual, I’m forced to call bullshit on your feckless post. Because Juneau, the chances of Joplin, MO, voting for say President O’Bamahammed are slim and none, no matter how much he steals from the public coffers to attempt to buy votes. Joplin, MO, loathes O’Bamahammed, as do all smart, moral people.
http://www.homefacts.com/politics/Missouri/Jasper-County/Joplin.html
Now Juneau, I’m going to tell you something for your own good, so you might reflect how pitiful you’ve become. Of all the lame losers on this board which were legion, and though many apparently have fled once a few betters strolled in as libs devoid of facts in an debate and when faced with those facts, disappear like a fart in the wind, you have moved to M&H’s biggest blowhard.
I didn’t think it possible anyone could bypass the Chatty Cathy Kitchen crowd, but in your miserable existence, you have managed to accomplish the practically impossible – #1 PROGRESSIVE POTATO HEAD. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 6:02 PM
Perverts Noah and Wayne:
You owe Cynthia a response! Thank you in advance for your thoughtful consideration.
It’s Memorial Day, and yet the so-called “mainstream media” has devoted just as much if not MORE time to “referee” Sarah Palin and her wingnut bus tour, than to our troops who have died or are currently serving.
This is a PATHETIC reflection of where we’re at as a nation. Click “like” and copy this as your status for an hour if you think we should be focusing more on our TROOPS than on a FAILED POLITICIAN!
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 5:50 PM
Pfesser,
Are you mocking me? Of course it would take a dictator to do what I said. But I do not want to eliminate the house or senate but to make it work the way I think it is supposed to work. I feel they now treat it as a Super Bowl game – they must be a winner no matter the cost, right or wrong just as long as their side wins. I don’t believe that was what they were hired to do. So I never thought about changing it. I would have to think about it.
I have an old computer and rural land llines; there are too many posts here; can not download. It is a 50+ mile trip for me to post this (shopping also). I will be back on Thursday, best I can do.
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 30, 2011
at 5:40 PM
Hi perverts and regular folks too. Hope all are taking time to appreciate our military on this memorial day. Thank you to President Obama for honoring our troops today!
Story: in Joplin, a 29 year old soldier was at the store with his 5 year old and 19 month old. The building collapsed and all 3 died. Military dad was found with the kids in his arms. The funeral is today for all 3. His wife and family have to face the devastation of lost husband and kids along with losing their home.
That brings me to Eric Cantor! No money for Joplin unless it meets his criteria. Such a wonderful fellow. 130+ dead, but Cantor is in charge – don’t worry.
This is pervert rated OMG because it is so stupid! What a loser!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/30/eric-cantor-on-face-the-n_n_868700.html?ref=fb&src=sp#sb=354243,b=facebook
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 5:30 PM
Poolman. During WWII there was a high rate of suicides according to the military. However many deaths written up as suicide were actually death by “dueling pistols”. A different mentality existed during that time versus the trauma of the Vietnam war.
Wayne, I would be very interested to know who the one president during your adult lifetime you thought was effective.
My theory is that we need a president for international affairs and a CEO to run this country. No one person in today’s world affairs can do both. The office of VP should be an elected CEO but then I worry that the voters would not have the education to vote in a good CEO and once again it would be politics as usual.
Okay Dueling Dudes, Cynthia gave you the response you requested. Why don’t you give her opinions as much credit as you give each other. She obviously put some thought into it. Nice rant, Cynthia.
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By: Raji on May 30, 2011
at 5:25 PM
Pervs: this link should be ok for you. It just talks about selling government lands and assets to pay off the debt. The Koch Brothers would buy the White House and then people inside it.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/republicans-sell-america
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 4:50 PM
Cynthia –
Whoa there! I was just scanning and got pretty immersed in your post!
I think that is a super concept. What would you do if you were absolute king? As pres you of course couldn’t outlaw Congress, etc – if that’s what you want – but as king you could make absolute decisions very quickly and make them stick.
For me, I would want the setup to be right. First, I want to be king only for 24 hours, no more, because I would be afraid I might get to liking it too much. Wow, what a concept…where would you start? What would be your priority list?
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 4:46 PM
Hi perverts: sorry to desert you for a while but had to make those Big Macs.
This one is OMG, if you are a Palin lover. For regular folks it should be no problem. One fellow i talked to said he liked Sarah because she had perky -it’s. He would probably vote for her by golly. Presidential material for sure.
Evidently George Will is not a Sarah fan in this clip.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/george-will-mocks-sarah-palins-national
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 4:37 PM
Noah,
Looking for me? We are having beautiful weather and no time for cyberspace. From the looks of things it must have been raining in your neck of the woods. I can no longer access from my computer so traveled 50 miles to do this; hope you appreciate the effort.
First I came from a very politically active Republican family, but turned off by politics years ago. A registered Independent for the last 40+ years; because my husband and father tried to tell me how to vote….okay childish – took a stand. Voted either side; voted for Bush his first term but then began to pay attention. This Republican Party IS NOT the party of my father and has not been for the last 30+ years IMO and would NOT vote Republican again. I have tried to shorten but bad at “shorthand”; did not want to disappoint you.
Back before the primary of all the candidates running who would you have chosen?
Dennis Kucinich, as much as I would have like a woman I didn’t feel Hillary was that one. (McCain however, may have considered one woman is the same as another.)
What do you think they should have done after taking office to fix the problems we were faced with?
I really don’t know it is above my pay grade. Had all the answers when younger; but learned you must have all the facts if you are to make an intelligent decision. I don’t have the facts. Obama is not my messiah; I do question his choice of advisors and some of the things he has done. BUT the mess didn’t just start with Bush but over the years including your “the greatest president of the 20th century”. I don’t know anyone who would be prepared to deal with it.
Which of the problems we were facing do you think was the most pressing?
A rude, isrespectful, hostile, destructive, uncooperative (fill in the blanks) House, Senate and Supreme Court along with the “behind the scenes powers” that were hell bent on causing Obama/Dem’s administration to FAIL no matter the cost to the “we the people”. They (both sides but primarily IMO the right) did not come to the table to find solutions but to prevent them. Healthcare Reform and Wall Street Reform are prime examples. The 70+ filibusters, holding the budget and debt ceiling hostage to get their way. And this will continue to be our most pressing problem. Many corporations are working to this end also, IMO.
Losing the Middle class (jobs), consolidation of wealth/power – same as animal hoarders?, lack of truthful news, divide and conquer scheme on the American people.
What would you do if you were President?
Clear out the Senate, House and Supreme Court and start all over. SC – should be not be political, interrupt laws not make them – two Justices too friendly with the GOP and one who has done nothing. Term limits, no life time benefits, Campaign finance Reform, limit campaign time to 6 wks – 2 mo.; come to work not beg for donations and not interviewing for a future job – must go back to your day job, limit number of lobbyist. I don’t believe most politicians are qualified to write a bill or regulations so they turn to lobbyists or the particular industry to write it. Fox guarding the hen house. Perhaps neutral panel of experts in that area write them. Not being paid by the word, no earmarks/pork, must read and understand the bill before you vote on it. Delaware has two senators, CA has two does not seem quite fair but ???
I believe taxes, SS, Medicare, WIC, Education grants, unemployment comp, Fair Wages, Unions etc are the PRICE of ADMISSION to a stable, secure, productive, successful, civilized society/country. Social safety nets are there to solve a problem; privatizing has proven to lower the quality and raise the costs. If you don’t want to pay then G..T..F..O. Any company that receives tax dollars – Haliburton, BP, Blackwater etc buys a ticket or receives no money. All must be accountable. Churches preach politics – tax them.
My momma once told me “you don’t sh*t in the only bed you will sleep in”. How much we contribute to this obvious climate change? but something is happening and we will have prevention or clean up of oil drilling/spills, over use of pesticides/fertilizers and steroids/antibiotics/drugs are wrecking the environment, wet lands – wildlife all for the money etc. This earth is our only bed one day “future we” may realize our bed is completely covered in two feet of poop and we have no place to go.
Election fraud not Voter fraud is the problem. If we have free and fair elections (debatable) then all machines AND software is owned by government – paper trail. A standard collection system in place – no late night 15,000 votes found. No game playing allowed – mass mailings, voter ID cards, and should have enough working machines for the district’s population.
The wall on the border is a totally asinine and harmful to the environment – like they don’thave ladders or build tunnels in Mexico but more importantly BRIBERY – too much room for corruption. Stop automatic anchor baby; and severely fine or jail employers hiring and or exploiting illegals. Deport the illegals or realize they do a job many US citizens will not – regulate a work program, issue a “temporary SS” card. There are solutions.
What I would do after lunch on my first day. Deleted the rest due to lenght
Where do you think we would be today if McCain had been elected President?
It would be a continuation of the same Bush agenda with perhaps a bit of Bomb, Bomb Iran. Also Reaganomics which IMO is a complete fantasy and the biggest reversed pyramid scheme ever perpetrated on America. The best thing that happened to McCain is he was a POW other wise he would have been just another “child of privilege” screw up. Bush is a total waste of a trust fund. Reason one should think about leaving their children too much money. I would also be worried about $arah inviting McCain over for some very, very “special” Moose burgers – would not put it past her.
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 30, 2011
at 4:33 PM
I think the perv thing is nothing more complicated than Joe trying to distract from the fact he cannot hold an intellectual conversation that someone didn’t post previously for him to link.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 1:41 PM
P.S. Juneau Joe,
I’m afraid you’re in the minority. This not Bongo approved, even taking into account O’Bama’s electrifying UBL/OBL success. 😉
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147839/Military-Personnel-Veterans-Give-Obama-Lower-Marks.aspx?utm_source=add+this&utm_medium=addthis.com&utm_campaign=sharing&utm_term=Military-Personnel-Veterans-Give-Obama-Lower-Marks
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 1:39 PM
Oh, and Joe. I have become the bore, I readily admit. When my wife leaves, as she did today for the week, I become an even bigger bore.
I find an excursion to the lake on Memorial Day, 4th of July, and Labor Day akin to having a root canal. I just got back from Hawaii, so baking in the sun is akin to receiving a tetanus shot. I was going to work in the yard and tend to my pitiful tomato plants which have been neglected, but the wind is gusting here today at a constant 30+ miles an hour, and that didn’t sound appealing.
And my puppy ripped the wiring harness off the jet ski trailer, which I have been replacing for the second time. I’m getting quite good at it, and it only filled a part of the afternoon.
So, I do thank you for both your previous service to our country and the fact that you have given me a target on an otherwise lackadaisical Memorial Day Weekend. For that, you are to be commended.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 1:36 PM
Wonder why Juneau is hung up on the euphemism perv rated? Why he finds that clever? Doesn’t he have the ‘nomenclature’ backwards? Or is that supposed to be a forewarning for us prudes?
———-
There’s “porn” for heterosexual types, which I guess is perv, but most would be lying if they/I didn’t admit it titillating, then there’s “perv” liberal style, where they find it perfectly natural to stick the totem pole of love up the old mustard road while fondling the hairy set of gonads. Dig the red eye flight! 😉
Now, I ask you in all fairness Juneau. I realized you’re a little twisted in your mindset, not terribly with it, and many times a Grade A lemming. But what’s more natural anatomically, if you get my drift? I realize religious law is out here as any form of religion beside Chicago Messiah taboo, but since natural law follows the same conclusion…..
Shouldn’t your scale be perv proofed, rather than perv approved?
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 1:29 PM
JJoe –
If you get your perv rating scale going, I want to nominate myself for top spot. I’ll wager nobody here has as much experience as I do in the Industry, or has seen as many cool, pervy things as I have.
OK – blatant bribe time: If you give me the top spot, I’ll tell you about the girl, the singletail whip and the single, perfect skin cut. AND her reaction! Now you can’t beat that! (so to speak)
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 1:27 PM
heh dam spell check irreverent should be irrelevant
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 1:18 PM
Noah: I have been telling you that all along. Do yourself a favor and ignore me. Your blood pressure is important!
Pfessor: we are landlocked. Air or boat to get in. There is talk of a road to Skagway but it is a dumb idea.
This link is pervert rated OMG! Do not watch. Supreme Court and Clarence Thomas stuff. Damning actually.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/bluegal-aka-fran/not-getting-distracted-breitbarts
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 1:12 PM
JJoe –
It’s a little OT, but one of the Alaska bloggers, a friend of mine, told me that SP was miffed about the capital being in Juneau and had moved most of the state offices to Anchorage, feeling that Juneau was just too far away from the center of Alaska. I also heard it is not accessible by road? Is that right? The capital is not accessible by road?
AK must really be a different kind of place. I would love to come there and take some bush-flying lessons. They say it transforms your flying skills.
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 1:00 PM
What are our troops doing today? Enjoy your day and thank a vet.
Pervert approved link. It will not raise your blood pressure. Regular people will learn a little and appreciate the day a little more.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43216956#43216956
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 12:54 PM
Just so there are no misconceptions JuneauJoe, you have become irreverent. People are on to you. If you ever learn the rules of conversation I would be happy to engage your posts. Until then you are nothing but a joke that no one is laughing at anymore. By the way that is an open invitation if you should ever come out of your shell.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 12:49 PM
Thank You to our veterans who gave so much for the USA. Many thanks to the families of soldiers who died or were wounded in wars.
This link is pervert approved. Pervs will enjoy this as much as regular folks.
http://www.godvine.com/Memorial-Day-Tribute-Set-to-Amazing-Grace-460.html
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 12:42 PM
perv – I *like* that.
If you are nice, and want to perpetuate the *perv* line of inquiry, I’ll send you a link to some of the adult videos where I was a cameraman.
It’s actually less fun than you think. I remember one attic scene where we were shooting remotely, since there was no room for cameramen in the attic, and I was watching the monitors downstairs to make sure we had the scene we needed.
I heard snoring, and looked over beside me. One of our twenty-something cameramen was dead asleep. I had to chuckle a little: here on the monitor was a beautiful couple, doing unspeakable things to each other – and obviously enjoying it – and a twenty year-old man fell asleep watching it.
sigh…porn just ain’t the attraction it once was…
Anyway, let me know if you want to continue this thread. I have tons of experience and stories to add.
Cordially,
PFesser
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 12:40 PM
Hi pervs,
Here is another OMG! Do Not Watch if you are a President Obama hater. Pervs: thank You for spending your memorial day with Margaet, Helen, me and thosenof us who appeciate them. (a perv rating scale was suggested – I like that idea. Thinking about it.)
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/memorial-day-president-obamas-remark
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 12:29 PM
Noah –
Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Read that, Libertarian. I think it is the best of both worlds. In the ‘nineties I was discussing politics with my two nephews – brothers who are politically very astute, and complaining that neither liberal nor conservative doctrine fit my views very well. They, who had been Libertarian for a long time, looked at each other and grinned. After a few questions they told me they would send me a book when they got home.
They did exactly that – it was a primer on Libertarianism. After about twenty minutes’ reading I knew I was home – finally.
Henry Hazlitt’s “Economics in One Lesson” has informed my fiscal policy since then. Ditto Milton Friedman. But if you want to talk to me about freedom of action and personal choice, you will find me to the left of anyone you know.
It’s not for everyone, but it works perfectly for me. And, as a Social Liberal, I try to hear everybody’s POV and think about what they said. Unfortunately I also have a temper and tend to snap at people when “snarked upon.” That is a failing, as Wayne says, I am working on.
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 12:08 PM
Pfesser – you’re right. And speaking of screwups, about half the time I incorrectly use your in place of you’re, or vice versa. I practically ignore the rules of grammar, as I don’t remember most of them. So the only time I get real pedantic about anybody’s mistakes, especially since we have no preview key, is one somebody is trying to stone me, and their abject idiocy is then noted.
———-
One thing about old Bo – he campaigned with the promise of “fixing things.” In fact, that was and continues to be his central theme. He hasn’t fixed jack shit, and has made virtually every situation far worse.
Remember “Bo’s” promise to halve the deficit? Bald faced lie, as he tripled it. He campaigned against the war monger Bush, then proceeded to not only adapt Bush strategy, but doubled down. GITMO? 😆 Our correct war with Afghanistan has gone far worse under Obama than it ever did under Bush. Even more galling, is the fact that the lackeys here never note we’ve had a Democratic Congress since 2006, Congress controls the purse strings, and Dims owned every facet of government short of the SCOTUS the last three years. There’s no denying they’ve mismanaged and bungled at every turn. The progressive party of the United States is not only inept – they are dangerous and should be scorned.
And Obama catches my undying wrath, because not only is he far more incapable than even I imagined as I called him Jimmy Carter incarnate before he was elected, but mainly Obama catches my wrath on account of his toadies – Juneau being a sterling example of one.
If there are four things I hate Pfesser, it’s duplicity, double standards, ‘piety’ of propaganda with selective memory, and abject hypocrisy; the latter we can all be occasionally guilty of on occasion. But not habit.
If I have led you to believe I thought George Bush a good President, then I have misled you. George was mediocre in thought, shallow and poorly read, a benefactor of his daddy, and poorly advised on many occasions. He spent way too much. He too kissed the ass of the Sauds, of which I have absolutely no idea why we continue to do that. Iraq is still to be decided, but I do remind we severely hurt Al Qaida on foreign soil on the battlefields of Iraq – a battle we are going to fight one way or another. I feel Iraq either will become the biggest boondoggle since Vietnam, or that it will become a huge asset as the Middle East implodes. That is why I reserve judgment about Iraq until a later date. As far as Afghanistan, it’s not worth the effort. We should blow it off the map, but another group of genetic deviants would only fill the void. Get the hell out with the promise we’ll kill them all if so much as one more 9/11 event occurs and we determine that they had part. And I mean that.
But Pfesser, I have no doubt Bush was a patriot, loved this country, and was honest as that continual bullshit about WMD annoys me – everybody was wrong from Putin to Ted Kennedy. So George gets a ‘C’ grade with me, as would virtually every other President except one during my adult lifetime. Obama flunks, as did Jimmy Carter. But even Carter was no closet racist, or made sport of alienating our staunchest allies. I readily admit I disdain the arrogant megalomaniac and SOB.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 12:05 PM
Bullies, finally a topic which I would except your expert credentials delurkergurl
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 12:04 PM
Joe, you asked the wrong question. “Why are you here?” leads to “because I can be”. It’s not an answer at all. A better question would be “Why do you choose to be here when you could be anywhere else?” While it’s a better question, it’s probably equally pointless. Bullies don’t tend to have much in the way of introspection or honesty. They aren’t here to induce thought, or they wouldn’t be making relentless personal attacks – desensitizing people to the point of ignoring them or waiting for them to find somewhere else to go.
Most already talk to each other elsewhere. There’s a hostility / domination thing going at both sites, but there must be something else about being here as opposed to other places.
Great posts, Alaskapi and Poolman.
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By: delurkergurl on May 30, 2011
at 11:53 AM
I have always said I am a Conservative first and a Republican second. To be precise I am a Regan Republican. I agree that the current republicans are a better choice than the Liberals we have today, but it is definitely a lesser of two evils situation. Politics has always had some level of self serving corruption inherit to itself but I think we are seeing it taken to another level today.
Now that there are more than 2 world powers out there, and we are a true global economy, there is more than ever a real chance we could be not only dethroned as an economic leader, but go the way of Rome.
Is there any Liberal out there that runs their home finances as our government does? Even one of you? I have to imagine that the answer is no. In no time you would find yourself penniless and homeless. If we don’t run our own homes this way then what form of logic are you utilizing that tells you it is OK to run our country this way?
I have never believed the government’s role was to be a provider of social services, and I am not aware of anything in the Constitution that says otherwise. I honestly would like to understand the Liberal point of view if there is something in it I am missing. Logically it seems to me to be very self serving and self destructive.
The only point of merit that comes to mind is the disparity between the haves and the have nots. While we like to think we all have the same opportunity in this country the fact of the matter is we do not. The child of Bill gates has a far greater chance at a life that is not hindered by economic problems than the poorest among us. Those not born into wealth have nothing they can do about that. So the problem seems to me to lie at the starting line of this race. We all start at different places, meaning many have far more to overcome than others.
How we solve this problem is something I have struggled with since my first philosophy course some 15 years ago. I am at the end of the day a believer in Gert’s Rules, and I think an ideal solution would fall within the guidelines of those rules. Socialism is proved conclusively not to work. I cannot come to a moral or ethical place that allows me to accept forced redistribution of wealth. We will not survive long as a nation if the disparity between the classes continues to grow.
My intuition tells me it is this business owner, employee relationship has a great deal to do with it. I know very few people who have achieved financial freedom as an employee. I know many people who have as an business owner. If we look at the disparity of wealth and compare it to the business owner/employee relationship, I think we would find a close match.
If this premise holds true then what does that mean? The logical course of action would be for more of us to become business owners. This then leads to my conservative belief that we must have an atmosphere conducive to making business prosper.
The above is what I call a proof of my conservative concept and belief. This is why I believe what I believe and the rationalization behind it. I would love for you Liberals to do the same and show me functionally why you think your ideology can work.
Pfessor, I do not know how it slipped past me that you were Liberal. I would like to compliment you on your conduct and say that you are the standard every other Liberal should hope to meet in terms of conduct and content.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 11:50 AM
poo – typing too fast. re: Raji – a large part, not point of the forty points.
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 11:39 AM
Poolman,
Your rant may have made allowed you to blow off steam, but I would remind you our “war machine” is now strictly volunteer. So you call us Imperialistic, yet I can’t think of a country on earth less imperialistic – if our wishes were really just to conquer, we could kick ass in weeks. We went through Iraq in three weeks, and then spent four years dying to put the place back together. I have little doubt, short of Russia or China, we couldn’t conquer and divide if that was our intent with little or no trouble.
But at best, all one can really surmise from your rant is that our veterans must be by definition also imperialistic – or so monumentally stupid they are played like puppets. I don’t believe that for a minute. A lot of those folks, in fact most of those folks, are heroes and patriots who deserve our respect no matter the politic.
And this comment?
Maybe. I’m not sure I entire agree with that conclusion, because suicide can also be defined as drug overdose. My great uncle told me upon returning, that suicide was epidemic after WWII for a time – maybe it is just better reported now. And you’re older than me, so you remember well the late 60s, early 70s, where everyone from returning soldiers to rock stars was on the wrong end of the living. But even if your stats are true, teenage suicide is also epidemic, and that has nothing to do with our “imperialistic” wars. It’s more an symptomatic indicator of a country in the throes of in hopelessness and depression.
You ought to be the first to admit, our mechanisms for coping aren’t what they used to be. From a breakdown of the family, to a cheapening of human life, all our symptoms of a much deeper problem.
And the gulf in politic most certainly doesn’t help.
Pfesser was certainly right about one thing, one which I admit I am guilty as charged.
There’s no doubt in the previous decade, my heart has definitely hardened toward a large segment of our society. I fight a battle everyday between wanting to grant for forgiveness and and wishing ill will. I find this particular segment reprehensible, do consider them the enemy, and without merit. And considering the latter, I’m not worthy to be their judge. 😐
I’ll work on it.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 11:39 AM
Wayne –
Taking a break from the s**tstorm of trauma on this fine Memorial day.
Perhaps I have been a little too strong in my criticism of the Republicans and given the wrong impression. I don’t consider it a party comprised of the ignorant; as you and I both know, most really productive people in this country vote R and certainly they are not ignorant. It’s a matter of right and wrong for me; I believe in my heart-of-hearts that the Party has intentionally pandered to groups of people they wouldn’t associate with in ordinary circumstances – and are doing it just for their votes. That’s a cynical, dishonest thing and I don’t like it. The mainstream, traditional, conservative Republicans (that I know, anyway) are horrified, but where I differ from them is that I won’t be a part of it.
As for which party is doing the most damage….I think it would have to go NOW to the Democrats, but I don’t think it is honest to deny that Bo walked into a bucket of poo that was not of his own doing. I don’t think he is doing the right things to get us out and is totally going down the wrong road, but he didn’t get us in, either, so I am willing to cut him some slack.
re: “taking over the blog” Everybody gets to post, JJoe, and there are some pretty good, hard-nosed posters on both sides now. Stop whining and step up to the plate and give a good accounting of yourself. You may not have noticed, but the average IQ here has gone up about forty points in the past few months and there ain’t no cover for you, so if you are inconsistent or illogical you will get pounded. So will I, Wayne, Noah, Jean, everybody… That’s a GOOD thing – it’s how you learn.
Raji – I like your posts – logical and well thought -out. I consider you a large point of the forty points.
btw, I said “their” on the previous post; I meant “there.”
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 11:36 AM
AlaskaPi
Thank you for your very moving tribute to Memorial Day
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By: Raji on May 30, 2011
at 11:10 AM
Wayne’s post was a well written concise view of the financial situation this country has been in for several decades.
I think Ted Kennedy in his last year gave a very good concise view of the political situation in this country when he stated Senators used to WORK five or six days a week and on holidays if necessary rather than heading off for four day weekends to politic.
So when you have people in Congress making decisions for our country whose only goal is to get re-elected, who is left to run this country? Financial ignorance seems to be one of the mandates to get elected to Congress.
We live in a global economy. We have lacked leadership with the necessary credentials to exist in this global economy for way too long.
Every government exists on power. America’s political power houses have almost gone the way of the housing bubble. The only power houses left in this country are financial and that is what is running this country.
It really is time for a wake up call in my opinion!
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By: Raji on May 30, 2011
at 11:05 AM
Happy Memorial Day, everyone!
I wish we were at peace instead of these ongoing wars. I am grateful for those who have served our country. I know many served honorably, even if the ones starting and promoting these conflicts were not. I wish we would bring all our troops home and tone down our imperialistic profile. I know, I know. Too profitable. Not in the agenda. One can only hope and pray…
We have done more harm than good to our troops overall. We say we support them, but it is generally lip service. Sending candy and junk through the mail. Putting stupid magnets on our cars. How about the National Guard? Not the same as it was 10 years ago. The troops are expendable. Uncle Sam’s property to use and abuse in any fashion deemed appropriate at the moment. Guinea pigs. Pawns.
The suicide rate is the highest it has ever been. That should indicate how unrighteous this service has become. PTSD is way up. I heard last night we have over 40,000 physically wounded from Iraq and Afghanistan. They even displayed them for the camera. Tugging at our sympathetic nature.
More troops have died than people did on 9/11. And we still have no direct connection. And what about innocent Iraqis and Afghanis? Of course now we have supposed killed OBL, our boogeyman and greatest scapegoat of the decade, the reason cited for our aggression and occupations. Yet we are still bent on conquering and conquest. Just keep selling terror.
I watched a Memorial Day celebration on PBS last night that just made me sick. I don’t know if I was immune to all the “pro USA” propaganda before, but the BS that passes as patriotic today really turns my stomach. Sponsors included or MIC and several war machine industries. The extent the media and this government goes to to put out a white-wash – polished and righteous image of America – just sickens me. My bullshit meter stayed pegged throughout the entire performance. Such pomp and drama. We eat this crap up. It’s like a bad movie that I cannot get away from, watching each developing scene while anticipating the doom around the next bend. The staged heroics. The nationalistic fervor. The great deception.
Sorry. I know this is probably not the best day to rant about the hypocrisy of this once great nation. I see us on a fast downward spiral, the way all great civilizations in the past have departed. The cancer has metastasized and the diagnosis is grim. Even the very planet seems tired of our arrogant crap.
On a happy note: I have been praying for Rush, Hannity, O’Reilly, etal. for well over a year now. The fact that their popularity is diminishing does give me a bit of hope. I will continue to bless them and lift them to the Father, along with others that hold popular opinion’s sway and those determining current policy directions. I pray that some will find courage to speak truth and help awaken the slumbering masses.
So, I will enjoy the three day weekend. I will thank those who are truly defending our nation and constitution. I will hope that all the people in uniform will be true to their heart and true to this republic, defending it against all enemies foreign and especially domestic. Let justice be served in America again, I pray. Follow your heart.
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By: poolman on May 30, 2011
at 10:54 AM
Perverts: let me clarify. I think it is strange to insist upon taking over a liberal site by big and bad conservatives. Just seems a bit perverted. A comment here or there is one thing but to belittle good people (and the hosts) is weird. I think those who are taking over the site with big words but little thought for the middle class are perverted.
Morning pervs:
Here is my latest post which you really should ignore. Environmental news.
http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2011/05/environmental-news-story-sunday.html
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 10:53 AM
Fair enough Pfesser – worthy response, of which most I agree. As you know, from the educational background, you and I are not much different. You were smarter in the sense of finishing what you started, while from the get go I was smarter in the fact I never had the wild oats period, and always made the grade. 😉 Tip of the cap, as I find your route ultimately more successful. There’s no doubt, your father the wiser mentor in comparison to mine. Hopefully, I corrected that omission with my own children.
And I do agree that most public officials, operating delusions of grandeur, do lose their bearing once indoctrinated. I have always been fond of saying, if you want to measure the worth of a person: lay money, then power at their feet and see how they respond. Rare is the man or woman who stays grounded and humble.
We of course do part ways in the social mores of the day, and I am of course, a how do you say it? ReBiblican. I do think you operate in a small bubble of ignorance yourself, believing most ReBliblicans slow and uneducated. I think you would be surprised, as like politicians, generally the stupidest are the most outspoken and visible.
Since I live right down the street from Anal Roberts (whom I thought a sham by the way), you might be surprised to know that as recently as 25 years ago, ORU had the highest ranked medical and law school in the state. Before you make crass comment, understand that those PHDs left for greener pastures like Duke, Stanford and Michigan upon departure. While Roberts was a demagoguing crook in my book who also lost his way and obviously grew corrupt and sanctimonious, his university was quite good during its heyday and the money flowed. During its glory days, ORU may have been one of the more impressive looking and dare I say it “progressive” schools in America.
But where you and I really part ways Pfesser is while I think the Republican party still weak, still waffling, still cowardly, and still self-serving, it is infinitely less stupid and corrupt than the current Dimocratic party. I give you one example – Obamacare.
I could be mistaken, but you read to lend far more than I do to the premise that most opinions are of equal value. I honesty believe America would be far better separated, as I find the divide of America’s most basic tenets between Conservative and Liberal irreconcilable, and certainly find the conclusions of Conservative far superior.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 10:26 AM
Wayne –
Nice long, thought-provoking post. I’m actually working this holiday weekend so I don’t have much time for any but a terse post myself. Sorry.
As I have aged I confess I have become damnably frustrated by what passes for thinking these days. Everything is a sound bite or a throw-away line. Anybody one doesn’t agree with you is improperly motivated, morally inferior and automatically suspect. Thinking beyond the surface is forbidden and the concept that their may be unintended consequences attending good intentions seems – to some, anyway – unknown. (e.g. If the govt “needs” more money, it’s simple – tax the productive – as if they will just sit there and let you pick their pockets.) Nobody seems to have that caution that comes from a lifetime of learning from your mistakes or have the idea that when you are the most dogmatic you are most likely to be wrong.
As you know, I am socially very liberal, but I am very frustrated by the Liberal one-liner “zingers” – which are almost always off-base, mischaracterize what someone else has said (that’s code for “dishonest”) or vilify people whom I think have integrity and are honorable – but disagree. I guess my biggest frustration with the Left is the lack of respect for others; at times I feel like I’m in grade school again – except the nice little girl who sat in front of me has transferred elsewhere.
My frustration with the Right is equally great or more so – primarily because I used to *belong* to the Republican party and I feel they have really lost their way in a blind rush to reap cheap, easy votes from the uneducated, the bigots, the haters. I could strangle them all sometimes.
In the meantime our feckless leaders are not only ignoring basic economics – and I believe doing so intentionally, because their only concern is re-election – they are ignoring the Constitution itself – the Document that has served us so well since the 1700’s.
So getting a compliment out of me for ANY of our officials is like trying to poke hot butter up a wildcat’s ass with an ice pick. I just wish some of our credulous friends here on M&H could see how utterly unredeemable that pack of shit-heels in Washington really is – and by God, it ain’t just the ReBiblicans.
PFesser
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 10:01 AM
Very, Very well said Wayne, far better than I could have said it.
For all those on this board who served, thanks for your service that allows me to do what I do everyday. Your service and sacrifice are appreciated.
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By: Noah on May 30, 2011
at 9:45 AM
Craig –
Reminds me of the stories of the CodeTalkers, who I am told often interspersed their military messages with off-color commentary about their superiors, fellow soldiers and white man in general, but of course nobody else had any understanding of what they were saying or any way of figuring it out, since the Indians had no written language.
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 9:39 AM
JuneauJoe and James and any others here-
On this Memorial Day
Thank you for your service to this country during the Viet Nam WAR
That was such a hard time for us all- the damage political hawks and doves did to men and women who served in Viet Nam was deep.
It was all too personal for me.
I attended too many funerals, too many wakes, too many bedsides
I lost the cousin who was the closest thing I ever had to a brother
I watched women collapse in loss when brought the news their husbands, sons, and lovers were KIA or MIA I watched an uncle die of what could only be called a broken-heart at the loss of his beloved son.
I have held the hands and hearts of those who were too often ignored by a society which wanted to put all it’s blunders there behind -the cousin who still cannot cross a bridge, fly, or get in a building above 2 stories because the choppers return if he does, the family friend who retreated underground , literally, as a lonely goldminer as the daylight was filled with the fire of the napalm he helped drop.
And I extend my thank you today- not as an ode to war- but as a neighbor who knows some of the hidden costs of war.
Whether a war be just or unjust, it costs us much more than money. Money we made up and we can make it mean anything we want, slather it around, hoard it away.
People . We cost ourselves people , we cost ourselves lives, we cost ourselves losses money can’t fix.
Thank you.
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By: alaskapi on May 30, 2011
at 9:38 AM
Pfesser – sorry about the length of this, but it is required for explanation.
So you really think Juneau a “thinker”? Maybe it is that you’ve strolled around here longer and on occasion witnessed it, but I have yet to see Juneau have an original thought.
What I see in Juneau and virtually every other lib at this site is (1) classic preconceived bias, followed by a search to find supporting documentation to lend support to a sought after conclusion; (2) a clear inability to answer a question with some semblance of critical thinking or nary an admission they simply don’t know. When they are completely clueless, which is virtually any difficult question I’ve posed, your met with silence, quickly followed by change of subject, back to parroting MSNBC talking points, finally back to the original argument with more supporting ineffectual links.
Within the last few weeks on numerous occasions I’ve tried to educate Joe how wrong he about economics and finances, with published fact from reputable companies such as the Wall Street Journal utilizing data and analysis – not somebody’s twisting of the facts or statist propaganda. If Joe can prove WSJ wrong, he should. Because I certainly have no problem pointing to the gigantic holes of Crooks and Liars, or that bastardized Jimmy Wright site all the libs love here.
——-
Give you two examples. A few weeks back, I tried without response from Juneau after Joe went on one of his tedious and repetitious ‘raise taxes on the rich tirades’ to fix “everything” – that if our Congress approved taxing everybody making over $100K every dime they make, not the $250K a year which is what Obama has defined as rich, took every dime – it would not pay for Obama’s $1.582Trillion dollar budget.
Now that is about as simple an example as one can make and the perfect indicator of just how far Obama’s spending spree out of control, leading to further deterioration of both investment, leading to further erosion of unemployment and credit worthiness. And still JuneauJoe stays on message.
Joe is incapable of understanding why the deficit is so damaging. Joe obviously doesn’t have the economic or financial background to understand the consequences of inflation, or credit risk, or basic understanding of macroeconomics and monetary policy. What other conclusion could I come to?
Example #2. Joe continually reverts back to 1930, 1940 or 1950 to make example of how our tax code should work and would work. Joe is still under the illusion that higher taxes solved the Depression of the 30s, when it was the very taxes and spending that kept us in a Depression for ten years. If we’ve learned nothing the last five years or so, we should at least now admit that Keynesian economics doesn’t work. FDR’s greatness is the biggest illusion of all.
FDR bought the vote, and FDR is exactly why we have the 22nd Amendment which was proposed almost immediately upon FDR’s death. More so, Joe is completely ignorant of what a global economy means, and to the fact the global economy of the 30s, 40s and 50s was basically America and Europe. The man is historically inept and lives in a static bubble.
I again remind Joe of this quote, which is now well documented:
“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!” U.S. Secretary Henry Morgenthau Diary, May 9, 1939, Franklin Roosevelt Presidential Library.
The Ultimate Raw Deal masquerading as the New Deal – we’re still paying the piper for those horrendous decisions. Social Security is the most regressive tax of all and clearly a Ponzi Scheme, each succeeding generation receiving less and less benefit for their buck. We continue to subsidize its imminent collapse one day to pennies on the dollar of investment. It was never intended to substitute for life savings – but that is what it has become for too many – and I suspect for Joe.
And, let us also remember that during the middle half of the 20th century, energy was cheap and most of our power was derived by domestic process. We were not beholden to hostile enemies for our most basic commodity short of water. Without petroleum, this economy is dead. It is the one resource America will go to war over. Joe and his pals apparently don’t understand this either. And that’s to be expected because the ignorant O’Bama doesn’t get it either. The man may be a master with a prepared speech by someone else and a teleprompter, but I am convinced he is shallow and poorly read off the cuff. O’Bama is clearly no manager or leader.
Pfesser, to me Joe is but one of millions of rubes, steeped in progressive dogma, without intellect or knowledge, whose world is one of a static bubble – no worse or better than 80% of the observed here. And slowly but surely back to their password protected hubs, because now their record of abysmal failure is clearly on display and even the propaganda isn’t working.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 30, 2011
at 9:30 AM
PFesser,
Have you seen those old movie time classics especially on TCM whcih are old travel
logs which focus on a south sea island or a cultural people stuck deep in the rain forest? Their faded color and cheap music good for the “thirties” is an interesting 3 minutes of baited tropical splendor for movie audiences of that day that didn’t know better, that the natives had been paid off for their parading in front of the cameras.
And at times, I can also get the same here on M&H as well.
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By: Craig on May 30, 2011
at 9:04 AM
sorry – the dumb and dumber comment was supposed to go after, “it can’t get any worse.” My bad.
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 8:55 AM
JJoe –
I saw SP in her usual narcissism yesterday on the news and asked my wife why they put up with her; were they were planning to change the rally’s name to Rolling Thunderthighs?
Think of it as the “dumb and dumber” ticket.
re Bachmann and Palin running for Bo’s job: God it just can’t get any worse. I had always wondered where Bachmann went off the rails and then someone told me she had gone to “law” school at the Anal Roberts Law School (now defunct). Case closed.
I’m no believer, but I am sorely tempted to pray for the ReBiblicans to be led out of the wilderness. Maybe some day…sigh…
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 8:53 AM
Ok – I will just think of the troll factor as the local perverts.
What Fire in the Belly really means to Sarah
http://www.politicususa.com/en/sarah-palin-fire-god
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 8:08 AM
JJoe –
M&H have set no litmus test for participation in this site, marking them, in my humble opinion, as Real Liberals – which is to say they have their POV but are willing to listen to those of others with whom they vehemently disagree. That is exactly what Liberalism is about, and as a rock-ribbed Libertarian I admire folks like that more than I can express.
As “Matthew” allegedly has said, those who would silence the opposing voices would fit the Internet’s classical definition of “troll” far better than those who *are* those voices.
I sense your frustration with Noah, as you try various methods to prevail in your arguments with him – including the shotgun method of harvesting and publishing random links. Don’t do it – there are no shortcuts to good arguments – just clear, hard-nosed thinking. You are capable of that; I’ve seen it. But don’t sell Noah short; IMHO he’s every bit as smart as you and at least as motivated. While I disagree with a large part of what he says, I have no illusions that he is pushover. Nor should you.
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By: PFesser on May 30, 2011
at 7:46 AM
Noah:
Why have you trolled this liberal site? Helen is pretty liberal – we can agree to that.
You are like the drunk at the play park who feels powerful because he runs kids away from a place where kids play. That drunk has power and uses it. In a sick and sad way, that drunk is proud of his accomplishments,
I think of you as that drunk. Why are you trolling this site?
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 30, 2011
at 5:48 AM
Oops! I forgot to tell you, we took a sampam up one of the gorges of the Three Gorges Dam. Woohoo! That was an adventure! Beautiful country. Beautiful people.
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By: Jean on May 30, 2011
at 1:29 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Some of you have said you enjoy my travel stories. Here’s one I have not put up here in M&H’s before. It is after all, kind of an old story.
We left for China the week after 9/11. Well, we had already made our plans and paid for our extended tour of all of China. We weren’t about to chicken out because of possible terrorist attacks. As it turned out at that time, it would have cost us twice as much to leave from HNL as from LA because the tour was an “all inclusive deal” from the mainland.
We had some dear, dear friends having their 50th Wedding Anniversary bash at the California Hotel in Las Vegas about that time. That hotel is Hawaii’s home-away-from-home in Las Vegas. We had a blast and then went to LA and on to our first destination, Shanghai. L- o- n- g flights!!!
The trip began in Shanghai, then on to Suzhou and Wuhan; a five day cruise of the Yangtse River and the the massive Three Gorges Dam there, the largest hydro-electic dam in the world. Then on the Chongqing (formerly Chungking) and Xian with the tomb and the hundreds of terra cotta warrior figures. After many, many other fascinating towns and cities along the way, we climbed The Great Wall. The fabulous tour culminated in Beijing.
There were about 20 people in our group from all over the U. S., British Isles and Central America. Somewhere along the tour one of the couples caught colds and generously shared it with everyone. By the time we were ready to leave Beijing, our colds had gone from mild to full-fledged. The pollution in Beijing didn’t help either. From our hotel room on the 24th floor, through all the thick smog we couldn’t see the ground or any of the skyline. It was as bad or worse than that in Los Angeles.
We had to get up at 4 AM to catch our early morning flight for home. Because our tour was “all-inclusive”, air, room and meals, the hotel insisted on giving each of us a big box of breakfast and lunch. After checking in at the airport, we had a lot of time to kill so we ate a banana, a sweet roll and some banana bread. We didn’t want to lug those big boxes around anymore, so I stuffed the rest of the food into my carry-on.
It was about a six-hour flight from Beijing to Tokyo with a three-hour layover there. We broke out our food and ate a couple of sandwiches. By this time our colds had reached the terminal stage and all we had to tide us over was Tylenol for the nine some-odd hour flight ahead of us. I forgot all about the rest of our food in my carry-on. When we staggered off the plane in Los Angeles, of course we had to collect our checked baggage to go through customs and immigration. We were undoubtedly a sorry looking pair with our bags and carry-ons in tow.
As we stood in a long line with stuffed heads and/or dripping noses waiting our turn, I remembered there were some apples in our “lunch”. California is very sticky about smuggling in fruit or other agricultural products. I rummaged through my carry-on and found the apples but fumbled them in handing them to ‘boy toy’ and he dropped them. They went rolling through the terminal under baggage carts. He went down on his hands and knees trying to retrieve those damn gyrating apples! This scene did not make us too popular with other weary travelers behind us in line.
We declared the apples to the customs/ag lady and she wanted to know if we had any other food. I meekly handed over my carry-on. She gingerly picked out squished ham sandwiches, smelly old tuna sandwiches, liquefied yogurt and God knows what else, dropping them in the trash one by one. She gave us back a couple of croissants that apparently she deemed salvageable. We finally schlepped all our belongings out of there!
Despite our final misadventure, our trip to China was one of our most memorable.
We must be careful not to take the provincial attitude that our language and our culture are superior to any other and look down on differences with scorn. Not easy. We have little way of knowing exactly what has shaped our own civilization let alone pass judgment on that of others, of whom we have no knowledge.
We are all related to one another in the human family. Each generation is only a brief instant in that genealogy. History is the name given to units that make up what we call civilization. This is the natural progression of our species. We have the same genetic heritage. Anyone who studies history finds that civilization arose from the ranks of many peoples of different races and creeds. Often they were in conflict but also they worked together to make us who we are today. We owe all of our ancestral families a debt of gratitude.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 30, 2011
at 1:22 AM
lol we are sorry? every time we back you into a corner using your own posts against you, you change the topic. What kind of person cant stand by his own words?
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 11:39 PM
There are more soldiers that die from suicide than in wars. True fact – is there something to learn from this. Spend more money on our returning soldiers,
http://www.examiner.com/human-rights-in-national/eighteen-vets-per-day-commit-suicide?CID=examiner_alerts_article
The good people have moved on I see. Got to say, you fellows are pretty sorry..
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 11:02 PM
NOP, I am talking satellite television. The internet company offers it as well as the fast computer modem. We discussed it, but a problem developed. I am a rather intense learner, whether it be about Neanderthals or music.
As soon as we got fast service and I could see u tube and Hulu, I began exploring. One was of the scores of people who have recorded Mule Skinner Blues. I played the songs to check the differences in style, and the computer speaker was loud. My wife got tired of the yodeling. That’s how Dolly Parton contributed to our not getting satellite television right now.
My wife imagined it would be like the computer, only more so. I think one of our public television stations broadcasts some of the BBC America News Service, at least it did. I have been watching History Detectives and Secrets of the Dead.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 10:43 PM
Sally, People, including me, like Warren Buffet around here, though he seems hyprocritical on the tax and some business issues. He appears to have one rule for himself and another for less favored business people. His business had a minor scandal with a possible heir apparent over insider trading, and not much happened. His detractors roll their eyes over some of his attitudes. However, most, even critics still like him. He is a home town boy who made good, and he doesn’t put on airs.
One of my high school class mates used to be a waiter in one of Buffet’s favorite restaurants. He said Warren was pleasant, but not a good tipper. People still remember when Rose Blumpkin, a local legend, sold Nebraska Furniture Mart to Buffet on a hand shake. She and her husband were Russian immigrants who built the business from nothing. His stockholder meetings are legendary. People come from all over the world to listen to his words of wisdom and to tour Omaha. They spend A LOT of money in Omaha.
Yes, he still lives in the family home, but he has a mansion out of state. In spite of his business acumen and shrewdness, he comes across as folksy. Buffet advised Arnold Swartzneger (sp) when he ran for governor and after his election. He also campaigned for Hillary and later advised Obama. However, he also strongly criticized some of Obama’s economic policies last year.
My brother used to work with one of Bill Gate’s cousins near Omaha. Gates has visited Nebraska to golf and to play bridge and has become a good friend of Warren’s. Buffet is a fanatical bridge player and usually enters tournaments in Omaha. He drags Bill along sometimes. Bill Gates persuaded Buffet to give money to his foundation. Before that, I had the impression Warren planned to keep the money until he died.
Is that enough? I could go on, but you probably know more about the man than you wanted to.
I was just joking about sending Bush the younger a Christmas card. I think Obama owes the election in part to voters’ being fed up with Bush.
You should visit Omaha sometime. Rumor had Lady Gaga considering buying a house in Omaha before she and her boy friend broke up. That says something about the city.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 10:19 PM
I know this is a really complicated thing for you to wrap you mind around Joe, but for it to be welfare, it would mean by default that it isn’t their money to begin with. Those were your words not mine.
You do of course of the bank statements showing the money being set overseas yes?
What does the 1.5 trillion in 2 ways have to do with the topic of redistribution of wealth? I am thinking you are getting so nervous you are mixing up topics to muddy the waters to try and cover for your flawed argument.
2.5 trillion in debt for our rich friends – out of the middle class pockets. You sure are generous with my money.
Thanks for proving my point. “with my money” It is all about entitlement. That is Joe’s money folks. How dare they take HIS money
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 9:53 PM
What a fool.
Where are the jobs they created? They got 70 billion and moved it overseas.
What about the 1.5 trillion in 2 wars. The wealthy folks did not send their kids over and they did not have to pay for the wars either. They did make sure they had a lot of money in Halliburton, blackwater and weapon manufacturers. They made a lot od dollars on those wars.
2.5 trillion in debt for our rich friends – out of the middle class pockets. You sure are generous with my money.
Welfare for billionaires is your thing. They should go through drug testing to get their money. Rush would probably fail.
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 9:30 PM
Should we continue to give the top 2% 70 billion yearly in welfare
This little statement sums up all that Joe is about, it is very telling if the Liberal mindset.
The word for the day is entitlement. You see this is what Joe really thinks. This 70 Billion…you see, that is Joe’s money. That is the Liberal party’s money. In their mindset, the Government is supposed to have all of our money, and we should be thankful for any of it they give back to us. You see to Joe, it doesn’t matter that these people created the wealth. That money belongs to the United States Government. It is all about the socialist idea of forced redistribution of wealth. What ya think about that Joe?
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 8:11 PM
Noah: it takes a while for truth to sink into your massive (empty?) brain.
Please do not check the links – not good for you. The truth could hurt you.
Should we continue to give the top 2% 70 billion yearly in welfare even though we cannot afford anything for the poor or middle class (like Medicare?). Where are the jobs produced by the 70 billion welfare to the wealthiest?
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 7:58 PM
Joe, we get it sport. Bush bad. U..no lika…Bush. Your a broken record my child. You keep posting up the same stuff from other people over and over. I am starting to think your one of those special needs posters and that maybe I would be on uncertain ethical grounds to debate with you.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 7:25 PM
Noah: republican debt limit hypocrisy!
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/14/republican-leaders-debt-limit-hypocrisy/
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 7:15 PM
Obama’s “lovely” wife is so wonderful, she’s had three chief of staffs and three social chairman in three years.
FBOTUS…. 🙂
Noah, Puppet has a problem with reading comprehension and couldn’t even get my sock puppet right. She comes back to rat and gets you, me and Tex mixed up – excellent lib rube.
I’m so damn clever, now I’ve taken over the Rutherford Lawson blog too. 😈 Reminds me of the ZZ Top song:
♫ ♫ Well I was scanning this here blog, stomping Libs with my heel, ♫ ♫
I threw Puppet in the back, and she was delighted to squeal.
We’re going at it strong, her from left and me from the right
I was laughing at what she’s smokin’ as she gets all uptight
Oh I’m bad, I’m nationwide.
Yes I’m bad, I’m nationwide.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 29, 2011
at 7:15 PM
I’ve read No One’s Puppet on May 29, 2011 at 6:19 PM post like 5 times now and I can’t make heads or tails of it. Looks like a stroke is a brewin
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 6:39 PM
Out of curiosity who is this Rutherford. NOP..there is no conspiracy.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 6:35 PM
No comprende. I’m talking BBC America and you are talking…. Most of all what does that have to do with Dolly Parton?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 29, 2011
at 6:33 PM
James,
I don’t understand why would I send W a Christmas card? Or did you mean the W.H. (White House) instead? Don’t need to. I just send silent thanks and also prayers for the USA.
Aren’t you in Warren Buffet country or close to it? What do you think of him personally? Is he mealy mouthed, the biggest lib Dimocrat, hypocritical? I’d rather not answer people that hate Liberals with such a broad stroke. Too much energy spent on unpleasant endeavors.
I heard that he lives in the same house in which he raised his family before the megabucks, drives a GM car, and eats at McDonald’s once a week. He also gave billions to the Gates Foundation.
Yes, I’ve heard GW is nice to everyone too. When President Obama comes back for his annual visits, his security force is kept on their toes because of his love of sports such as body surfing. Hard to clear out the whole beach at Sandy’s, so they just keep an eagle eye on him and he gets his time with the waves. He seems like a pretty nice guy too.
I pass by the condo where his grandparents used to live almost daily. It is a modest building, not one of those fancy million dollar condos we have, and I imagine him walking to school about 4 blocks to Punahou. He was a poor minority kid in a rich man’s school. That builds character.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 29, 2011
at 6:19 PM
Wayne/Noah, you little Tex/mix-up, you are so in trouble; Rutherford is going to…you when he gets back. You…against his orders…. So were you Rutherford Lawson’s pocket puppet the last time you hung out over here running Nakeeeed through the comment section screaming like a banshee on crack? We recognized your style even then. You owe, Lawson a Starbucks or something for cowardly trying to hide behind him.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 29, 2011
at 6:19 PM
No One’s Puppet, we have a problem with that. After I played ten versions of Mule Skinner Blues, including one of the Fendermen playing together for the first time in 45 years, my wife said “NO!!!” I’m not sure if Dolly Parton or a fifteen year old yodeling girl pushed my wife over the edge. It might have been Jewel’s yodeling.
My playing Paralyzer by Finger Eleven also hurt my case. I’m still working on it.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 6:13 PM
Wayne Perram is right about Warren Buffet. He lives in Omaha, and many locals bought stock in Berkshire Hathaway when it was cheap. He has better tax accountants than we do.
He did pay to save Omaha’s baseball team and he finances annual awards for Omaha teachers.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 6:00 PM
James, you only followed through on half what I told you to do. If you’d got satellite T V too, you could have been watching reruns of “The Tudors” this summer;
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By: No One's Puppet on May 29, 2011
at 5:56 PM
JuneauJoe,
Didn’t like that link too much – the comments section was pretty nasty.
Have you ever seen Ayn Rand in an interview? When I was in high school I read her books and thought they were great (groovy was the operative word then.) Her philosophies are making a comeback now. I found an interview of her with Mike Wallace in the 60’s – very interesting. She gave me the creeps. She had Bette Davis’ eyes, lol, and her words were passionately cold blooded. In a nutshell, to each their own, and to hell with others.
I’ll chose a different way of life and be happier for it.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 29, 2011
at 5:52 PM
Honolulu Sally, if you like Obama you should send W. a Christmas card. I agree, Bush fatigue helped elect Obama.
Our auto repair man played golf with Bush twice. He said he is a nice man and treats the staff as equals.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 5:47 PM
Perhaps the biggest lib Dimocrat of them all – short of Joe, who doesn’t count. Do you know why Warren’s taxes are too low Sally? Being a lib and all, I wouldn’t expect you to.
Because old mealy-mouthed, hypocritical Warren doesn’t pay personal taxes – he pays managerial fees at about 17% of his total income. And Warren helped pushed for that categorization. And I haven’t seen old Warren the hypocrite pushing to have the tax laws changed back to where he would pay the same rate as say Pfesser. Besides, after your first billion, you’re immune to higher tax laws. Have you seen Warren donating any of his billions toward the deficit? Because I sure haven’t. Warren the hypocrite couldn’t spend his money fast enough to get rid of it. Of course, I also understand Warren was a wretched father and cad for husband – the later coming from his ex-wife.
See how you libs work? Speak out of one side of your mouth, speak to the politicians another.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 29, 2011
at 5:44 PM
Sally, blame NOP, at least in part. We live beyond the reaches of civilization as most people define it. Fast internet was not available. Finally, a new company purchased our server and it offered to sell high speed to us. Our neighbor three miles away remains outside the pale, so it was that close for us. NOP presented a compelling case for our buying it, though we were leaning in that direction.
We bought our computer in 2005, but I don’t want to get rid of it for sentimental reasons and because XP works better than its immediate successor. Maybe next summer.
My wife couldn’t stand using such a slow service, but I was used to it. Now, it is like having our first television or VCR.
I could look it up, but I don’t have time now. I don’t know if the billion dollars per week is true or not. I do believe as you stated, the cost was not included in the deficit as it is now, so that alone would add to the official deficit. However, even with that, the deficit is growing too fast to sustain. The scary part is the even worse future projections which are probably too optimistic.
I agree, it is a hard fix with few good options. I compared it to an auto accident a drunk driver caused. He had skidded sideways on a narrow, icy bridge. I had two choices, to slam straight into his pickup or to swerve. If I swerved, I risked tumbling into the river.
Then, the man opened his door and put one foot onto the bridge. It ended as badly as I fear our world will end if we continue on our present course.
The potential storm is one problem. The foot of rain which fell on Montana last weekend and the record still unmelted snow pack in the Rockies upstream is going to make life interesting here. Already a few people have evacuated, and a nuclear power plant twenty five miles south of us is only two or three feet above flood stage. They are sandbagging the edge of the parking lot.
Thanks for the good wishes. As you know, I try to keep it civil–sometimes snarky.
Juneau Joe, my earlier comments cited statistics showing we had more jobs after the tax cuts. The unemployment rate fell to as low as 4.5% around 2007. As I wrote before, I cited an article showing how the tax cut benefited the economy. Obama also agreed to extend the tax cuts for a year.
Bush, the Republican and later Democratic Congress did their part to “run the economy into the ground,” but that is past us now. We need to change course now.
As I approached the pickup, the driver’s previous choices and my bad luck were not relevant to fast decisions I had to make.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 5:41 PM
ahh Joe…what a sham you turned out to be. I am very disappointed.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 5:34 PM
Private prisons. Public money goes to pay off judges.
I read where Sherriff Joe in AZ may be wearing pink jail panties in the future. 3 of his underlings are under arrest? Bet they just wanted to wear pink panties.
http://current.com/news/93249075_private-prisons-use-our-tax-money-to-give-kickbacks-to-judges-and-governors-to-incarcerate-as-many-americans-as-possible.htm
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 5:28 PM
JuneauJoe,
I’ll point out yours and my typo/grammar errors for the record. You are a veteran. (btw, thank you very much for serving!) I used the plural verb “were” instead of the singular “was”.
I do believe that if GW wasn’t such a piece of work, we would not have had such a euphoric and hard fought victory in 2008. If GW made $15 million doing speeches, good for him. I was asked to buy into an event at which I would get a picture with the President!! Woohoo! Upon learning that it was going to be President Bush, I said no thanks.
It is said he is a real fun person to be around. Still, his actions and decisions were not for us, but more for the rich and corporations. Let them have each other. I’ll do the avoidance thing again.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 29, 2011
at 5:27 PM
Ahh so Joe can talk, when it is in his language. The real Joe is relieved.
Sorry Joe, but despite what you claim, the government cannot do it better than us. We are not as stupid as your kind would leave us to believe. Need I remind you the Dems were in control of the purse strings during the Bush years starting with the 110th congress. Bush can make all the decisions he wants but the Dems could have nullified them if they chose to controlling both the house and the senate.
January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee. The Dems were in control of the areas that caused our economy to collapse.
Email me Joe and ill give you your opinion to post.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 5:23 PM
GW was a piece of work Sally. Mission Accomplished said it all! Words but no action for the poor or middle class. Tax increases paid for WWII and all other wars. If they are worth fighting and having soldiers die for, they should be paid for with a war tax. I am a vetera.
ALEC – Government for the Corporations.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/29/980353/-ALECGovernment-for-the-Corporations?via=siderecent
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 5:03 PM
JuneauJoe,
GW Bush was quite a guy. After 9-11, his message to the people were, “Go shopping.”
After war was declared on Iraq, we all got tax cuts.
The first I could understand somewhat though they were not wise words to speak at the time. Spending is good for business. Good business is good for the economy.
The second though, always dumbfounded me. It takes more money to fund a war, so taxes should be raised, not cut.
We need higher taxes, or America needs to go into business. Run the US Postal Service like Fed-Ex? I don’t think so. Raise the taxes, especially on the rich. Even Warren Buffet says he is paying taxes that are too low.
GW Bush was more of a mouthpiece and pawn than someone running the country. He had no foresight and he left a lot of crap.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 29, 2011
at 4:55 PM
That 700 billion welfare for Billionaires went straight to deficit! Did it bring jobs – NO!
GW Bush sure knew how to run a country into the ground! Such a guy!
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 4:42 PM
Hey James,
Did you get a new computer or something? Your writing has improved – much smoother now.
One of your posts about the Iraq war reminded me of a “fact” that I cannot substantiate, so I suppose it isn’t fact enough for some. During the Bush years, we were spending $1 billion per week on the war in Iraq. This was NOT included as part of the Bush budget, but is now included under Obama’s budget.
Agree that our current President is running up the deficit – perhaps it is the lesser of worse alternatives. So many financial experts think they know how to get our budget back on balance. Time will tell. It is not an easy fix like getting rid of certain departments or cutting this or that. My worry is the value of our currency.
Take shelter and everyone keep safe. Better yet, keep civil,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 29, 2011
at 4:37 PM
Reminder: the economic meltdown occurred while GW Bush was president.
De-regulation did and tax breaks to Billionaires did in our economy. I heard GW has made 15 million Giving speeches to some wealthy folks since retirement – not a bad deal. After looking at how well the rich folk made out, they owe him at least millions. He saved then 700 Billion with his tax cuts.
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 4:35 PM
The weather service expects a major severe weather outbreak in our area by this time tomorrow. I’ve seen these things fizzle, but given the history of storms this year, someone may die or lose a home tomorrow night. We are in a wind advisory for up to 50 MPH wind gusts tomorrow. That will enhance any straight line thunderstorm winds.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 4:07 PM
Juneau Joe, Democrats also voted for those two unpaid wars, and the administration continues Bush’s policies. Besides, the invasion of Afghanistan was a necessary act of self defense. As you know, I agree we shouldn’t have started a second war in Iraq before we finished the first one.
My earlier quotes already covered the tax cuts and their benefits. “Tax cuts for the rich” is a simplistic and misleading slogan intended to gain political advantage. We also established the fact that even if we taxed 100% of the rich folk’s income it would still fail to save us from an economic calamity.
I have some news for you. It is now Obama’s deficit. He inherited a tremendous deficit and a recession from Bush and his predecessors. However, Obama is approaching the half way mark of his first term, and for most of his term, a virtual blank check from the Democrats has bloated the huge and growing deficit. I’ll split the difference with you. Let’s say Obama’s inheritance still belongs to Bush. The rest is his and it is humongous.
Most inteligence agencies and many of our Democratic leaders believed WMDs existed.
One of Bush’s goals was to create a semi -democratic alternative in the heart of the Muslim world. He concentrated on WMD to scare people into thinking the war was necessary. A freer beachhead was too abstract to convince voters we needed a war of choice. Yes, Bush/Cheney found the WMDs. In their heads.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 3:59 PM
Poor Joe, tell ya what kiddo, email he and ill help you form an opinion of your very own.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 3:41 PM
Jobs data during the Bush years show how few jobs were produced. A lot more families ended up in poverty and without health insurance during the Bush years.
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/republican-job-creators-myth
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 3:30 PM
Straight from the famous ventriloquist assistant and leftist crowd who told me in Nov. 2008, the Conservative party was dead and had a predilection and affinity for the term Teabaggers, in Nov. 2009, announced the Republican party would be going the way of the Whigs, and in Nov. 2010, helped employ 69 new Republicans in Congress, in conjunction with historical slaughter in state houses.
Joe, I’m not terribly concerned with your polling at this moment… 🙂 In fact, I would encourage more of it from your most appropriately named Crooks and Liars blog you seem to cater for with the perceived bias.
As I recall, I offered a bet on your prediction vis-a-vis your polling on this very blog, and you suddenly went silent. The bet still holds when you get a break from the hose.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 29, 2011
at 3:21 PM
Sorry Elsie, as i suspected we live in 2 different worlds.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 3:10 PM
Common, so many people have touting your intellect and informative commentary. I made it easy for you and asked about one of your very own posts. Common, give it a crack, it won’t hurt.”
That’s the name of the rapper, isn’t it? You WERE talking about Common, weren’t you? Surely you saw all the stories about him; he was in the news just last month a lot …
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By: Elsie on May 29, 2011
at 3:05 PM
Rapper? Hey Elsie check your herb cupboard for some stroke herbal remedies. NOP has some not so good meds you might be able to borrow.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 3:02 PM
Hey Joe..as you seem to have this infinite size ball of yarn to play connect the dots with. Could you show me the connection where Bush putting the war on your personal credit card is tied to my famous chilli recipe. If anyone can find the connection I know it is you.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 3:00 PM
So now Noah is talking about that rapper, Common, who just entertained at the White House?
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By: Elsie on May 29, 2011
at 2:59 PM
Sorry Pfessor Looks like I was right. one liners only. Can’t say i didnt give him every possible chance and made it as easy as I could.
and Wow. That last answer was all over the place. A hodgepodge of answers from previous posts. So if I am reading Joe right, all this debt we have is George Bush’s doing. Interesting. Obama is in this 3rd year and Bush still has the purse strings.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 2:57 PM
James: two unpaid Bush Wars, tax breaks for the wealthiest = most of the deficit which President Obama must deal with. Did Bush/Cheney find the WMD (weapons of mass destruction) ever? It is still the Bush deficit, my friend. Sorry to break the news to you – but it is reality.
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 2:52 PM
Nothing Jow, Really? Common, so many people have touting your intellect and informative commentary. I made it easy for you and asked about one of your very own posts. Common, give it a crack, it won’t hurt.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 2:42 PM
Juneau Joe, you left me an irrisistable opening. “Cheney said deficits are no big deal. What changed?” They are now Obama’s deficits.
My answer is too simplistic and probably wrong, but someone had give you that reply.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 2:37 PM
New Rules with Bill Maher
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/real-time-new-rules-maybe-we-should-be-mor
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 2:37 PM
No really Joe..answer the question. What does the GOP have to gain by crashing the economy? You answered a question with a question then changed subjects. I would be happy to answer yours after. Please enlighten us
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 2:29 PM
“The GOP are ready to crash the economy” is a mirror charge of “Obama is ready to crash the economy.” I’ve heard both. Anyone who believes either claim is blinded by partisanship or his/her conspiratorial nature. Both right and left are using scare tactics to inflame their audiences and to gain listeners/readers for their web sites or talk shows.
The constitutional question of the collective bargaining law in Wisconsin is not yet settled. While it is technically correct to say a court ruled against it, any
implication of a settled issue is wrong. The state Supreme Court has not yet spoken.
That Wisconsin decision places the law in the same position of R. J. Hildebrand, a 23 year old man racing in the Indianapolis 500 for the first time in his career. He was leading and victory was a certainty. At the fourth turn before the start-finish line, he crashed into the wall. Ed Weldon won, and Hildebrand managed to keep going to take second.
Danica Patrick, the Sarah Palin of auto racing led several laps. She is more likely to win the Indianapolis 500 than Palin the presidency.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 2:28 PM
You are the brainy one, please tell me why they say: NO TAXES, now or ever – only cuts, cuts, cuts and vouchers for Medicare. Stupid plan to me but Mitch
McConnel is sure pushing the stupidity. 19 times – Republicans raised the debt ceiling with Bush and suddenly No Raise In The Debt Ceiling. Cheney said deficits are no big deal. What changed?
Noah and Wayne, brainy ones – please tell this burger flipper your crazy assed idea on this important topic.
Noah: do not check my links – if you really read them, your thinking would change. For your own good – pass on my links.
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 2:23 PM
Another one liner and another opinion page.
Tell me Joe…what do the GOP have to gain by intentionally crashing the economy. Please enlighten us.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 2:04 PM
The GOP are ready to crash the economy!
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/8058069/the_sheer_contempt_that_the_gop_has.html?cat=9
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 1:36 PM
and another one liner.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 1:20 PM
Had a few minutes to COMPLETELY waste and read one of those links. You might as well be quoting people from this board. It is just some left wing wacko giving his perspective. It shows or proves nothing other than there is another Liberal out there I didn’t know about before.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 1:19 PM
Noah and Wayne: just ignore me. Keep moving along fellas.
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 1:09 PM
As I said Pfesser, one liner, and a one liner.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 1:06 PM
Unconstitutional: walkers union rights stripping bill is unconstitutional!
http://www.forwardlookout.com/2011/05/protesters-are-responsible-for-striking-down-anti-union-bill/10991
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 1:02 PM
Republicans are not polling too well right now, sorry Noah and Wayne.
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/05/psst-republicans-are-you-sure-any-of.html
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 12:54 PM
Elsie, how about ya just man up and say whats on your mind eh? Since you obviously left your rightful place in the kitchen to come personally attack me, why not step all the way out and get it out of your system.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 12:51 PM
So, Noah, ya talk to Tammy lately?
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By: Elsie on May 29, 2011
at 12:13 PM
Elsie, No One’s Puppet, I never took you two to be conspiracy nuts, but add one more page to your mental health page.
While Wayne and I do share some points of view it seems to me we have very different writing styles. I for one never use racial slurs for any reason. Wayne is much more eloquent than I in presenting his points. Then take into considering the audience we are posting too and the effort it would take to keep two very different writing styles going and I have to ask why would we bother? Whats to gain? We are dealing with a bunch of Jr High kids in a name calling match. As James so rightly noted, this site has never been more irrelevant.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 11:55 AM
Jim Wright,
The ultimate censoring fascist blogger, with an absolute requirement of obedience to his opinion, being used as example of not being cowed by anyone. 😆 😆
You gals are too much.
Jumping Jimmy Wright is cowed by everyone. The epitome of requirement for puppet on a string. You’d do better to use Matthew and the anonymous blog owner here as not being cowed. At least they have demonstrated a modicum of tolerance and apparently don’t require genuflecting and groveling from the guests.
Pfesser… 🙂
These people who so frequently use the word “fascist” here to describe those wretched “teabaggers”? I don’t know if they have the jackboot small enough to fit. Maybe something, something “youth.”
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By: Wayne Perram on May 29, 2011
at 11:44 AM
Puppet,
Is that a fact? What an amazing coincidence. Puppet, I can’t tell you how incredibly insightful I have found you. You’re an incredibly quick learn. It only took you about six weeks, when most recognized in say six words, or six seconds.
But if I could be so “bold” to make a suggestion. You need to improve your knowledge of security measures. 🙂
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By: Wayne Perram on May 29, 2011
at 11:23 AM
Wayne –
How about my Boy Louis’ take on Big Govt?
Experience teaches us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent.
Louis D. Brandeis
Fear of serious injury alone cannot justify oppression of free speech and assembly. Men feared witches and burnt women. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears.
Louis D. Brandeis
The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding.
Louis D. Brandeis
But enough about the socialist agenda…
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 11:21 AM
This a direct quote lifted from Lawson’s Blog “187. Wayne Perram | May 29, 2011 at 12:25 am
😳 I keep leaving more retorts to the morons at Fat Grannies, who surprisingly haven’t canned me yet, and forget to change my name.”
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By: No One's Puppet on May 29, 2011
at 11:21 AM
The only people with whom I have shared an e mail address are PFessor, Craig, and delurkergurl. I do remember false James.
This whole site is irrelevant now. The Indianapolis 500 is on. Will Danica Patrick be a contender this year? Will Scott Dixon win or will Dario Frankini do it again? Will reporters interview his wife Ashly Judd if he wins? Can a second Andretti win this year?
I don’t know how old Jim Neighbors is now, but he can still sing “Back Home in Indiana.”
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 11:20 AM
It’s always cute when liberals use this quip, as if fascism somehow the result of people adverse to overreaching government, when it is liberals with their very existence dependent upon the methodology and form, even demands of larger and larger government largesse, more regulation, and more control for the sake of “security.” I got a reminder of liberalsim/fascism while groped in the security line at the gate. Though not a formal member of the Tea Party, I can hardly see where the requests of less government intrusion could lead to fascism – just the opposite, in fact.
And Sinclair Lewis and Lynnda, and liberals in general remind of the “quote” from St. Paul, as in “Perilous Times Shall Come For Men Shall Be Despisers Of Those That Are Good And Lovers of Self…”
So if I am to error on the side of caution, some how I think Saul of Tarsus trumps Sinclair Lewis’ wisdom. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on May 29, 2011
at 11:15 AM
Tex, no one thinks you are smart enough to create Noah’s syntax, although you and Wayne seen a match.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 29, 2011
at 10:59 AM
Meet the 10th grade student who would like to debate Michelle Bachmann on the constitution. Nice kid. Bachmann, the constitutional scholar should debate her.
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/05/lawrence-odonnell-interviews-10th-grade.html
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 10:58 AM
Noah –
It’s pretty amusing how some go after you personally. Advent of ad hominem is a sure sign someone is losing an argument. Keep it up, Bud.
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 10:58 AM
Noah, it’s so obvious that you are not Tex/Wayne. And, Tammy just kinda faded away when you came back from wherever you went. Oh, that’s right…your wife had a baby after you returned from Darfur.
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By: Elsie on May 29, 2011
at 10:56 AM
Did you know?
Before Congress and President Clinton approved the Brady bill in 1993, laws delaying handgun purchases were known to have no effect on crime. During 1992, the most recent year of data available when the Brady bill was passed, California, the state with the most restrictive waiting period law (15 days on all firearm sales, retail and private) had total violent crime and murder rates 58% and 44% higher, respectively, than the rates for the rest of the country. (FBI) courtesy NRA-ILA
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 10:53 AM
We have a crime problem folks. Crazies being shot with guns should be discussed!
Case in point.
Around 4:30 a.m., a woman in Columbus, Ohio was entering her vehicle to head to the gym, when a robber confronted her. The woman screamed, alerting her boyfriend who was in a nearby house. The boyfriend retrieved a gun and shot the criminal, ending the attempted robbery. The criminal fled the scene on a bicycle, which he rode to a local hospital for treatment. (WBNS, Columbus, Ohio, May 25, 2011)
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 10:50 AM
Compelling argument here
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 10:41 AM
NOP is trying to say that I am Tex as well as Wayne. Has been saying this for some time now.
Joe, now I truly find you disturbing. You are for massive government to control every part of our life, and for disarming the public at large. You are either remarkably short sighted and naive or very dangerous.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 10:40 AM
We have a domestic terrorism problem folks. Crazies with guns is a topic we need to consider!
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/wisconsin-man-arrested-planning-shoot-aborti
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 10:38 AM
JJoe –
More guns = = less crime.
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 10:35 AM
NOP –
I confess to be exceedingly dense, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what you are trying to say. Can you make it simpler for me? Thanks
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 10:21 AM
And what have we learned so far this weekend? Don’t share your email address with strangers, you met on line, this message is particularly for James, PFesser, and Craig. You very well could meet yourself coming and going from M&H’s Blog. So you almost forgot to switch back to the Wayne persona last night Tex?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 29, 2011
at 10:08 AM
More guns and fewer gun laws = more children facing the death penalty. Just guessing.
http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/more-childish-gunplay-10488
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 9:59 AM
Elsie’s right. Whenever you are trying to get good, well grounded opinions it is always best to troll the places where thoughts of the many are edited by the few or the one who knows better. Don’t believe me? Ask any good dictatorship, they’ll tell you.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 9:39 AM
Hey, Juneau Joe, when you need some laughs and want to read some quality progressive commentary, remember to drop by http://www.stonekettle.com/ There’s a new post that was put up today.
Jim Wright retired from his military career and now lives in Alaska. He’s not cowed by anyone, speaks freely with a lot of humor, and has a strong personality. I’m sure you will enjoy his posts. Of course, moderating your own blog means you can block and delete obnoxious blowhards whenever you want to. Jim’s kicked a few trolls to the curb when they tried to soil his carpet.
Have a great day up there in Alaska, ol’ buddy. Wish I was up there in all that beauty, too.
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By: Elsie on May 29, 2011
at 9:33 AM
I earlier repeated a comment by one of Obama’s former professors. He said Obama doesn’t understand how the private economy works. Some who share their views here don’t either.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 8:42 AM
I’m not a Tea Partier, Lynnda, but thank you for calling them their proper name.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 8:37 AM
“The GOP are simply ready and willing to destroy the economy” is illogical. A bad economy hurts Republicans as it hurts Democrats. There is no reason for Republicans to want to destroy the economy. “Destroy” implies nothing remains.
You might better write “The GOP, while well meaning are ready and willing to impose policies which will destroy our economy.”
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 8:34 AM
Very well said Wayne Perram. I agree 110%. It would be refreshing to get a Liberal take with the personal stuff set aside, there is a lot of great debate potential in this post.
To further illustrate that the government runs nothing well. I read an article that there is some number (I forget the exact number) of eateries in the Washing DC Area. With all the political people, foreign visitors and such these restaurants see an amazing profit line, except for one, the government run cafeteria. In the entire time this establishment has existed it has never turned a profit.
These guys can’t run a food court in the middle of all this money, yet you think we can trust them with our livelihood. Sorry folks but the logic in this escapes me.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 8:24 AM
The comments from the Republican Teapartiers reminds me of a quote from Sinclair Lewis:
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
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By: Lynnda on May 29, 2011
at 8:20 AM
Sally,
I do hope this is a joke:
By definition, Joe is not intelligent. In fact, Joe and his friends here are the ultimate spoon fed mushrooms. They don’t think – they regurgitate the universe as they imagine it to be; as they would like it to be. Reality says something far different.
Links are great on occasion if they provide numeric fact or valid point in detail. But Joe’s links are neither – they’re opinion based on bias that has a miserable record of failure – propaganda for the spoon fed masses.
See Sally, for you guys to be right in your argument, you first must believe that government does it better than anyone. You have to believe that government can take your money and your time, regulate it and utilize for the greatest benefit.
Now anybody that can’t look past their nose to recognize that not only does government not do it better, nobody does it less effectively is not terribly astute; a helpless rube. You guys and gals have somehow been sucked into believing government is benevolent grandfather, or loving nanny., or unbiased distributor of goods. Ask anyone who has had the unfortunate experience of meeting the IRS, EPA or the TSA agent how benevolent and fair our government can become.
Now I have no idea if your ideas are from the heart and misdirected, or as wicked and lost as you read to me, but the fact is even if you win your battle, you are going to lose your war. Because sooner or later, even the short term benefactors of higher taxes, more regulation, amorality, twisted law are setting themselves up for a place they don’t want go. That’s not my opinion – that’s history.
Our Founding Fathers understood the dangers of an overreaching government, and set up the very first Ten Amendments as a restriction against government and for the people. And yet, you want to forgo your rights as an individual and lend them to a master you should fear.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 29, 2011
at 8:13 AM
JJoe –
Your link is deformed. Drop the p on htmlp.
We must be reading two different things. Looks like a couple of platitudes and Democrat talking points and no serious analysis at all. Hell, we all know Palin is a worthless toad, so what? Even the thoughtful ReBiblicans concede that.
This guy got not a single comment. Are we looking at the same page?
Not up to your usual standards of quality. Maybe you should analyze more and give up link farming just a little. Makes you look lazy. Just a suggestion.
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 8:11 AM
Pfesser I do enjoy JJoe’s posts, because he clearly knows what he’s talking about and THINKS before he posts
This is just one of those times we will have to agree to disagree.
If you mean he links good posts, then sure I guess, he can link good. I do remember asking him 5 times to answer a rebuttal and he just couldn’t do it. I see the occasional blurp as the one above this posts show he is mostly a one liner of rhetoric followed by a link to someone who had something to say.
That said, I will leave Joe to his own devices. I will occasionally call BS when I see it. In typical Liberal fashion it seems all you need to do to be right is to say an idea, then if you can scream la la la la till the protesters go away, it is true. Joe, I look forward to do the day when your fear allows you to A) Post a thought of your very own, B) When you do respond to do so without personal attacks.
And as far as this whiney McDonalds type commentary, I ask for an entire day for you to play nice, that when a person response to you it is polite to respond back. I answered multiple questions you posed and you were not able to answer one in return. Even if you feel so threatened that you need to attack me personally to respond then feel free.
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By: Noah on May 29, 2011
at 7:55 AM
The GOP are simply ready and willing to destroy the economy – plain and simple. Another great article.
http://ajliebling.blogspot.com/2011/05/degrading-democracy-count-ways.htmlp
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 7:53 AM
Arthur Laffer of the Laffer curve, said he did not know if the Bush tax cuts had generated more revenue, but he said the tax cut was right because after the September 11 attacks and threats of recession, “Bush needed to stimulate the economy and spend for defense.”
The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate rose from 4.2% in January 2001 to about 6.3% in June, 2003 and fell to 4.4% in March, 2007. The recession took it up to 7.6% when he left office. It was the highest level in more than fifteen years.
The home equity bubble helped power the Bush economy as the stock market bubble had fueled the economy during the Clinton administration. The Bush administration tried to better regulate Fannie and Freddie, but the Democrats blocked Republican efforts.
People don’t win arguments, facts win arguments. One can twist facts to fit an agenda but the facts remain.
I’ve noticed the ghosts of old high school debate classes. When the facts or logic threaten, change the subject or attack obliquely while throwing schools of red herrings into the mix.
Bush is gone. Obama is here now, and an attack against Obama’s policies ought not be a signal to dig up Bush and say “see, he was worse” or “look what some nutty Republicans have said”. Such attempts to change the subject are understandable, because some of Obama’s policies are hard to defend. One should at least try.
One might as well tell us how horrible Warren G. Harding or Woodrow Wilson were compared to Obama.
Declarations of “I am superior to you because I don’t get involved with messy arguments” is an admission of defeat. Such a person has few facts or ability to support a disputed view. At least Noah, Juneau Joe and some others are trying.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 7:49 AM
re: link wars.
Posting innumerable links gives one the aura of authenticity, but remember there are billions of Web sites and pages and one can always find a page to support his POV. I find cogent argument more convincing.
Now to reverse myself, I offer the Laffer Curve from the ever-reliable Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
It is really a thought experiment: a govt tax rate of zero nets zero tax revenue. A tax rate of 100 percent does the same, since nobody is going to work. So there must be a point somewhere between zero and a hundred percent where govt revenue is at a maximum. My understanding is that it is somewhere in the low twenty percent range, which is why raising taxes, while resulting in a temporary boost in income, then causes the govt to lose revenue as people and businesses cut back or simply stop working.
In the ‘seventies I worked for a surgeon. Marginal tax rates were extremely high and he had it figured to a science: He worked until the very day his taxes went into a bracket he found unacceptable and then shut his office, furloughing his six office staff for the rest of the year, while he spent that time with his family, reading and going on the occasional vacation.
Get ready for the same thing if Bo’s class-envy driven agenda goes through. I’m already calculating the point at which I will stop work. You can ride even a good horse to death.
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 7:48 AM
The GOP show sheer contempt to the poor and middle class.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/8058069/the_sheer_contempt_that_the_gop_has_pg2.html?cat=9
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 7:35 AM
I quoted this before, but most of you forgot.
July 13, 2005 The New York Times:
“For the first time since President Bush took office, an unexpected leap in tax revenue is about to shrink the federal; budget by nearly $100 billion.”
The Congressional Budget office estimated that the budget deficit which reached $412 billion in 2004 might fall below $325 billion.
Tax revenue was nearly 15% higher than in 2004. Corporate tax revenue was up 40% after languishing for four years.
The stock market bubble was similar but less pronounced than what provided apparent prosperity during the last half of the Clinton administration.
Authorities warned that the 7% spending increase showed politicians were not yet ready to adjust for the harsh medicine needed to fix our economy. The tax cut which contributed to the newly collected money would prove costly if the government didn’t adjust spending.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 7:10 AM
Jean opined:
When it comes to your considerable background in education, experience and accomplishments, you have to stoop far too low to be able to communicate with the regressives who like to take up space at M&H’s. That’s all they are capable of doing, filling cyberspace. The regressives really have no idea with whom they are dealing when it comes to a man of your caliber.”
I do enjoy JJoe’s posts, because he clearly knows what he’s talking about and THINKS before he posts, but the giant circle-jerk of “oh, you are SO smart!” “No, it is YOU who are so smart!” is nauseating – and the kind of non-thinking that made it clear to me over a year ago that this place needed a giant brain enema. Now I see it’s only the left hemisphere of M&H’s brain that ever requires the soap suds. The Righties are pretty obnoxious sometimes, but at least they THINK.
Here’s how thoughtful posts work: opinion, then facts to back it up, then analysis. We can all cede that Everybody here is f’ing brilliant. Now they need to prove their case.
You really should take that Aricept.
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By: PFesser on May 29, 2011
at 6:51 AM
Anonymous, is that the best you can do? You’d better get on that hampster wheel and ride, baby ride, because the Airborne Toxic Event is coming, and its coming for you.
To the rapture of one. You’d better Hang On Sloopy, because I am the real McCoy.
Delurkergurl, the traffic has moved on, but in case you still care, after your comment about Sarah Palin yesterday. One poll, I think has her in the thirties now, and I believe another gave her a 5% approval rating in New Hampshire.
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By: James on May 29, 2011
at 6:41 AM
Noah, I have limited time, my friend, and I choose not to waste time or energy discussing politics with a right wing fool basically.
Remember; I must flip burgers at McDonalds for minimum wage which ties up a lot of my time. Do you want fries with that? Sorry, just a habit.
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 29, 2011
at 12:39 AM
If you were to be honest, which you were not, humility has nothing to do with it. I tried for quite some time to get Joe to engage in conversation. He would ask me questions yet not respond in kind, completely one sided conversation. Then out of no where he launches personal attacks, and you sit there and defend those activities. There is no civilized discourse because you and your band of Liberals cannot argue on intellectual points alone. The handful of non Liberals on this board have asked numerous times to end the personal attacks, and were attacked for their trouble.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 11:06 PM
JuneauJoe and other liberal nuts – Booyah! I must admit I am full of bigotry and prejudice by definition from the latest postings.
So be it. There is a lot of that going around on both sides of the wing nut issues.
Civil discourse does not seem possible, and victories declared by one and not the other are victories that hold no water, as a flounder doth founder.
A comparable of the 2 sides would be the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and the Amazing Show with Glenn Beck. Both of these gentlemen, by definition would be considered bigots and prejudiced by parties of the opposing side. I cannot imagine either one of them having a civil discourse, but I could be wrong (nah, I’m not.)
Although, Jon Stewart did accept an invitation to be on the Bill O’Reilly Show, the discourse was civil, and I would give the “booyah” to Jon and a mini “booyah” to Bill because he didn’t pull facts out of his arse.
I do enjoy the links JuneauJoe posts – he is intelligent and efficient, yet humble enough to let someone else take the stage to prove his points.
Auntie Jean has good advice Joe. Let the victors claim what they will, for the spoils belong to Honi, may he rest in peace.
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 28, 2011
at 10:53 PM
take one personally out of that paragraph. sorry for not proof reading
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 10:17 PM
By the way, what you witnessed with Obladi, as you did with No One’s Puppet, is the classic fear response I was talking about a few days back. Why else would these two kids take the time to talk about my financial situation? Fear, and desperation. If the Liberal movement is so right, why is it that it can never stand based on its own merits, and its gestapo defenders come out in droves to personally attack personally any who are not like them? What a wonderful proof of the theory, soon to be proven fact, that this is indeed the party of hate and intolerance.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 10:15 PM
Obladi, well said…you are exactly what we expect from the party of hate. Thanks for helping me prove to alaskapi that it is so. Hey, by the way, if you happen to have anything of merit to contribute to the discussion after you get done with your personal attacks please feel free to do so.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 10:05 PM
Uh huh.
Joe, for a lib, you don’t even lie and demagogue well. Neither does your female half DeLurch I notice. And exactly what real numbers would that be Joe? With that charge, I would expect you could be very specific to demonstrate your intellectual prowess for the female toadies that frequent here. You’re so easy to school Joe, it’s pitiful. You better go get that Stone Kettle goon. Better, if I were you, I’d run to Chatty Kitchen and hang out with the rest of the flunkies. If you let them emasculate you first, a neutered beta male like you could play house boy for the harpies.
And though I’ll be the first to admit that most capable candidates are not going to expose themselves or their families to the millions of maggots, deviants, lowlifes, bottom feeders, and rejects that make up the left wing of the Dimocratic party to run for President, indicated by the incredibly lame group of potential Obama opponents for 2012, if anyone by the name Rubio, Christy, or Ryan runs, not only will Obama get beat, he’ll get crushed. Wait until we start reminding the wafflers of Obama’s resounding successes over the course of his disaster. Now about 45% of you are for sale, and I understand that your very life depends on entitlement. But I haven’t even begun to wrap Zero’s miserable record around his pencil neck yet, and I’m quite confident by the time inflation has ruined what’s left of the economy, even a few of them are going to come around when all the crumbs are licked in the hopes will throw a few crumbs on the floor.
So you keep reading your namesake blog Crooks and Liars, you keep listening to these Molly Ivins’ wannabees (Molly resides in hell with Osama), and you keep dreaming of a a better day. Because no matter who wins the presidency, your lefties future looks real bleak. 😈 If we don’t get you first, Obama’s quick road to hell will. Guaranteed.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 28, 2011
at 9:58 PM
Jean:
Noah is what we wipe off our shoes after coming home from the doggie park.
He’s obviously unemployed and unemployable so he can spend all his time harassing people here. He is a triviality to be ignored.
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By: Obladi on May 28, 2011
at 9:55 PM
you’ll have to forgive Jean, her bigotry and prejudice often times clouds her judgement.
You do owe her a debt though Joe, she did spend what remains of her credibility to defend you. guess you have to give her something for that.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 9:32 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Bruddah Juneau Joe, a little motherly advice from your Auntie Jean. When it comes to your considerable background in education, experience and accomplishments, you have to stoop far too low to be able to communicate with the regressives who like to take up space at M&H’s. That’s all they are capable of doing, filling cyberspace. The regressives really have no idea with whom they are dealing when it comes to a man of your caliber.
You have WAY too much intellect to waste your time and talent on riffraff of no consequence.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 28, 2011
at 8:25 PM
What’s Obama done so far?
http://tinyurl.com/2fl9gzk
Thanks in advance for the uber-predictable, superior & hateful reactions. Water off a duck’s back.
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By: delurkergurl on May 28, 2011
at 8:03 PM
I wonder delurkergurl, did the 15,000 new unemployment claims made just last week alone make the top 100?
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 7:42 PM
Joe, I can make a website claiming you know what your talking about, that you are always right, and that you are smarter than all of us. Wayne could come on here, post a link to my website saying, look, its true. It wouldn’t change the fact that you just a misguided, not so well read Liberal. Everything you post seems to come from a place with an extreme bias agenda.
If you really want to impress someone, how about you link less, and type more. Come up with your own ideas and rely less on the ideas of others. It would be nice to see if you actually knew what you were talking about. Given time a chimp could copy and paste a link.
Was rather irked, but not at all surprised, that Cynthia chose not to post her answers to her own questions as she agreed to do if Wayne and I went first. She had time to post an addendum to one of her questions but not enough to keep her word. Seems NOP has another kindred spirit.
delurkergurl, would have to be relevant for us to bother. Everyone is on to you, and quite frankly most no longer care.
I wonder delurkergurl, did robbing from your kids and grand kids future so you can live high off the hog now make the top 100?
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 7:39 PM
A hundred (or more) things to love about Barack Obama:
Birthers turn on Trump, say he’s plotting with Obama
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/28/979835/-Birthers-turn-on-Trump,-say-hes-plotting-with-Obama?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos%29
Thanks in advance for the uber-predictable, superior & hateful reactions. Water off a duck’s back. 😀
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By: delurkergurl on May 28, 2011
at 7:32 PM
Republicans voted 19 times during BUSH years to raise the debt ceiling!
I wonder why the change in attitude? Was it Dick Cheney who said deficits do not matter? That was not that long ago actually.
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/14/republican-leaders-debt-limit-hypocrisy/
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 7:00 PM
Is there good evidence the tax cuts persuaded more people to join the work force (because they would be able to keep more of their income)? Not really. The labor-force participation rate fell in the years after 2001 and has never again approached its record in the year 2000.
Your facts are wrong – use real numbers Wayne. You are making up facts, friend.
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 6:39 PM
Crap…No matter for you pedantic types that are short on facts and have to seek something, anything, to divert the truth.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 28, 2011
at 6:06 PM
You missed the most important word Joe. Growth. Last year, our economy shrank 2.6%, Blammo’s first full year, and last quarter was zero when inflation was taken into account. And you want to rant about failure? Taken a look in the mirror? So, it would appear O’Zero will far surpass anything Bush ever was able “to accomplish” and do it in far less time. Bravo. 😉
And if you want to give me the “Bush’s fault” crap like you waddling ducks always do, I’ll remind you in Bush’s first two years he had (1) The Tech Bubble; (2) 9/11.
So know matter how poorly you “think” Bush did, and it’s no doubt the performance was marginally awful, O’Zero has done much worse, most importantly in the manners of (1) Job creation, (2) Deficit, (3) Inflation, and (4) Growth.
Doubled down on stupid. Face it Joe – you hitched your wagon to a massive loser, while you peed in your pants at the charlatan’s speeches in front of Styrofoam columsn. 🙂 That makes you a proponent, cheerleader and lackey of major league loser….now you add that to your list of personal successes.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 28, 2011
at 6:04 PM
JuneauJoe, for a time there, I thought you were just misguided. Now I see Wayne was right, you just are not that bright. I would like to point out I never once bothered with name calling, and per Liberal tradition Joe, due to lack of any intellectual commentary went for the personal attacks.
Joe my little man, we all know you have an issue with Mr. GW Bush. Might I point out something you have obviously missed. He is no longer president kiddo. If you are going to blame him for everything that is wrong today then you have to give him credit for everything that is good.
And for the record sport, George Bush’s Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!
You might want to fact check whoever s paper you are copying off of before you come on here and post it as your own content.
Now despite what Obama would lead you to believe he had nothing to do with catching Osama other than he said “go.” He didn’t pull the trigger, ending Osama’s life, he didn’t collect the intelligence that located where Osama was staying. Sorry to burst your bubble but Obama was sitting on a golf course while the real work to find this guy was being done.
End of the day sport you and your kind will be the end of this country. You have no honor or sense of morality spending your kids and grand kids money so you can live off the government nipple. Get a clue, post some facts, and try again.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 5:52 PM
Those tax cuts passed in 2001 amid big promises about what they would do for the economy. What followed? The decade with the slowest average annual growth since World War II. Amazingly, that statement is true even if you forget about the Great Recession and simply look at 2001-7…
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 5:48 PM
Though it bores me, even pains me, Juneau to talk to you as I find you a borderline moron (once again reminding you), I don’t believe I ever even hinted at not talking to you. You’re like the clown on the dunk tank, only here the balls are free.
And you didn’t take my bet.
I have no idea of the “tax cuts” for the wealthiest are a failure, because for at least four of the eight years of the Bush Presidency, the U.S. economy sustained at or near full employment. You either conveniently forget that fact, or simply too dumb understand that fact. TBD.
Unfortunately, your limited abilities can’t allow you to contemplate why the economy is in disarray. Tax cuts had little or nothing to do with and revenue is not the problem – millions of imbeciles of your caliber living beyond their means, and a corrupted, lenient government who led the charge of which you want more, in conjunction with a bunch of white collar crooks, the majority Dimocrat, and a total failure of the SEC, the Federal Reserve, and Congress, led to this thing called the housing bubble Joe. Have you ever heard of that?
Obama then escalated the abject stupidity with his “investment” which bombed, his bail outs and extension of benefits which fuel bombed, and his budgets which nuclear bombed. One out of seven people now collect food stamps, and 45% don’t pay a dime in Federal taxes. Last I looked, Barry had managed to increase the deficit about 35% in two short years. Well done Joe! Terrific performance! 😉
Now, about Bin Laden. Tip of the cap, as it the only thing Obama has done right in 30+ months. Of course, the real winner of the ‘political contest’ was “enhanced interrogation techniques” and GITMO – both of which the dunces, you included, wanted shut down. Isn’t it amazing all those campaign promises El Blammo fed you rubes, have suddenly been forgotten? Zero doubled down on the Bush Doctrine, and you didn’t notice. tsk tsk
What’s new?
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By: Wayne Perram on May 28, 2011
at 5:27 PM
Whiney Wayne – I thought you were not talking to me.
The GW Bush tax cuts for wealthiest were a miserable failure! Those tax cut (welfare for billionaires) and two unpaid for wars caused our deficit.
Please remind me which President found and killed Bin Laden! Not having a massive brain, like you, I keep thinking it was President OBAMA! (I just checked, dang, it was President Obama who took out Bin Laden.)
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 5:04 PM
You two buffoons, Noah and Wayne, make my day. You two idiots actually believe your crap. Hate to break it to you but Fox is not a real news organization.
Here is your hero Bachmann being asked about the lies come so effortlessly out of her mouth. President material or ready for the nut house. Nut house actually has more votes – interesting.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/michele-bachmann-blames-her-reading-art
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 4:54 PM
What was the unemployment rate when Obama took the helm again? I forget?
Now I know that you’ve had to revert back to the Bush Days to cover your tracks Juneau of monumental failure under your messiah, but when inflation considered, we had zero growth last quarter.
So I will make you a bet right now Juneau, if you and your groupies are betting men from those hack sites you keep posting. I’ll bet the misery index at its absolute worst under George Bush wasn’t as bad as it is this very minute under Bongo.
And just so you’ll understand the ground rules, we are going to account for the misery of food and fuel in this one. That is, unless you Leftist rubes don’t eat and drive.
Should we place our bets Joe? 🙂 Why don’t you ask your masters at Crooks and Liars (appropriately named, by the way) if we’re on and the appropriate wager? Because, I’d like to treat my family and neighbors to a free meal on some Lefties account over the long weekend.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 28, 2011
at 4:50 PM
GW Bush had the poorest job creation in the last 75 years! The idea of tax cuts for the wealthiest creating jobs was sure shot to hell!
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/republican-job-creators-myth
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 4:38 PM
I’ll bet somebody of Juneau’s “caliber” is a crack scientist too – ♫ ♪ working at the car wash… ♫ ♪ A real authority and scholar.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 28, 2011
at 4:20 PM
I say any two things*
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 2:26 PM
Joe we really need to work in your fundamental argument skills.
Premise: Pres Candidate McCain was a right wing crazy.
Premise: Picking Palin confirmed his wing nut status
______________________________________________
Conclusion: 2012 the Republicans are going even Wingnuttier.
Above is the typical Liberal argument. I say anything two things that I believe in, and my conclusion therefor is automatically true.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 2:24 PM
JuneauJoe, I am starting to feel sorry for you. Such a limited perception of the world. You and your kind always deal in absolutes. You give new meaning to the term tired rhetoric.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 2:20 PM
The Bullshit games of the GOP. If they are not in total control -they will undermine and destroy the country. Give to the Rich and steal from the poor and middle class is the game they are playing. Sad but true.
http://republicandirtytricks.com/the-gop-attempt-to-end-medicare-just-another-day-in-the-long-history-of-republican-failure/
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 1:32 PM
Sorry about Re posting the same article above. I am on another computer and there is a learning curve to deal with.
Here is the High School students talking evolution vs creationism. We need to quit dumbing down our youth with the creationism garbage.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/maybe-theres-some-hope-us-yet-high-school
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 1:20 PM
James: Powered by a hamster wheel.
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By: Anonymous on May 28, 2011
at 1:17 PM
High School students take on creationism!
About McCain. Pres Candidate McCain was a right wing crazy. Picking Palin confirmed his wing nut status. 2012 the Republicans are going even Wingnuttier.
http://blog.buzzflash.com/davidow
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 1:02 PM
Couldn’t be more wrong. Before I criticize your judgment, I wonder if Jean realizes every time she uses the pejorative “Teabagger”, that makes her the teabaggee. But with a face that turns men to stone from the looks of its gravatar, even I couldn’t dip my own in that wrinkled mouth.
——-
Now, what you posted couldn’t be more wrong. Moderate Democrats is a misnomer anymore. They died at least ten years ago. Proof = BongoCare. McCain was, is, and will always be nothing but a connected Admiral’s son and still last in his class. Example – McCain Feingold; a joke and abomination.
I find it curious that you gals reserve your most hateful screed for Palin and Bachmann, both are infinitely brighter than that lying moron Nanzi Pelosi, or the incomparably stupid Maxine Waters and Senator Patty Murray just to name a few in the Dimocratic party. Your obsession with Palin borders on clinical insanity. Personally, I think its the ugly girl syndrome from high school, still jealous of the head cheerleader. It’s the analogous to the liberal blacks reserving their most vile hatred for anybody black and conservative. It’s a personal threat.
While Palin is certainly not my choice for President, we could put Pee Wee Herman or a mushroom in position of POTUS, and be way ahead of Obama. Short of killing UBL which you can think our military, not Obama, this charlatan has been a dismal failure in every capacity and fiscally, more specifically monetarily, has caused irreparable damage to the country in conjunction with the equally inept Ben Bernacke. The damage is imminent. O’Bama is clearly a prepared soundbite, a puppet on a string, an unsophisticated and poorly read lightweight, an embarrassment on foreign dealings, and garden variety moron off script. It shocks me reasonably bright men like Pfesser still haven’t made up their minds about that. Obama makes Jimmy Carter look dynamic.
But no matter what you think of Palin, until Lehman Brothers failed, with Palin invited to the ticket, McCain led in all but a few polls. When the economy went off the track, the race was over and weak people voted in mass for the facade. Serendipity of being in the right place, at the right time, in the midst of the perfect storm.
If the Republicans can field any candidate worth their salt, and I admit this current field is particularly lame mainly because nobody decent would subject themselves or their children to people of your ilk’s attacks for 18 months – if a Ryan, Rubio, or Christy mold happens to enter this race, the 2012 race won’t even be close – and we can kiss Obama’s sorry ass goodbye. It will be a day of mass celebration around the world, except for the Caliphate and toadies incapable of taking care of themselves in America. 😉
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By: Tex Taylor on May 28, 2011
at 12:41 PM
Yo Sloopy:
Funny stuff.
Call me. Land line. Cell NG here in paradise
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By: jsri on May 28, 2011
at 12:40 PM
Yes, McCain did get a decent bump when Palin first wowed the masses with her into speech. The beautiful, lively unknown! I was somewhat impressed. As time went on, the more she talked the worse it got. Her favorability has been dropping slowly ever since.
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By: delurkergurl on May 28, 2011
at 11:35 AM
I agree, with Noah, no matter how well or badly McCain functioned his advisers would have pushed policies more conductive to a faster recovery. Of course, we will never know.
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By: James on May 28, 2011
at 10:51 AM
delurkergurl, after Sarah Palin joined the team, McCain had begun to lead in some of the polls, and he was gaining in others. In my opinion, the coup d’ grace came when McCain canceled his campaign, revived it and seemed to be figuratively running in circles during the crash. Meanwhile, Obama exuded calm. That is when McCain;s chances died in my opinion.
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By: James on May 28, 2011
at 10:48 AM
Andrew M Garland posted this in Pajamas media:
Richard Epstein is the James Parker Hall Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of Chicago where he has taught since 1972. He was a colleague of Barack Obama and the two had mutual friends.
” Obama worked as a community organizer and was in many cases very constructive. He orgainised public/private partnerships to help the homeless and downtrodden.
But, the difficulty you get, for someone who has only worked in that situation is that he believes the creation of private wealth is something the government cannot influence or destroy. He has many fancy redistributionist schemes, in addition to his health plan and new labor laws, which are all wealth killers.”
The site also has an article about “The Forgotten Man”, a book explaining why FDR’s policies lengthened the depression. Time Magazine may have been right to compare Obama to FDR.
PFessor, has it occurred to you that Lori might be battery powered?
We shouldn’t insult Elton John. He sang at Rush Limbaugh’s wedding though the left criticized him for it. John claimed we should treat each other as people.
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By: James on May 28, 2011
at 10:43 AM
There were a lot of moderate Democrats who were interested in McCain until it was obvious what a poor choice he made for VP. Also, as his campaign went on, he got more crazy and ugly. He isn’t the man he used to be.
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By: delurkergurl on May 28, 2011
at 9:51 AM
Originalism and the supreme court – ain’t no such thing!
http://blog.buzzflash.com/davidow
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 9:30 AM
JJoe –
Super buzzflash post. Goes right to the heart of it, doesn’t it? Thanks!
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By: PFesser on May 28, 2011
at 9:19 AM
Also McCain has a long history of working across the Isle with Dems, I am rather surprised Dems were not more interested in having him become President, lesser of evils and all.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 9:11 AM
Cynthia Still waiting to see your answers. McCain like Bush might not have been the sharpest knife in the drawer, but like Bush would have surrounded himself with people smarter than himself. He is a skilled politician and would have done find in office. I think it would have been a unremarkable term in office but he wouldn’t be taking us over the edge of a cliff like where we are now.
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By: Noah on May 28, 2011
at 9:10 AM
Right or wrong. That is the question.
http://blog.buzzflash.com/davidow
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 28, 2011
at 9:08 AM
Cynthia –
“Where do you think we would be today if McCain had been elected President?”
I think that is a very, very important question – perhaps THE most important question of the election.
McCain, although not the sharpest tool in the shed, would probably have been OK. To my mind the overriding question is what would have happened if McCain had been elected and become incapacitated in his four or eight years in office. It boggles to even consider.
And that is why I voted for Bo. We’ll see if that was smart or not, but the possibility of Sarah GodForbid Palin, who thinks the world will end in her lifetime, having her thumb on the button that could make that happen, was just too much to consider.
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By: PFesser on May 28, 2011
at 8:43 AM
Wayne and Noah,
Thank you for your answers.
I realize I failed to ask the question correctly. My fault…The question should have been:
Where do you think we would be today if McCain had been elected President?
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 28, 2011
at 8:26 AM
Ragi, that is a real success story. Your grandfather sounds like an inspiring man. Not many people have his attitude about “giving back” now. How did he do it? Was it part of his plan? Your grandfather must have done a lot of observing and studying as he worked his way up.
I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear. Our tax rate was much lower than the countries cited in 1990, but now our taxes are getting higher than the competition.
So far, it is still worse in some other countries. For example, our high school Spanish teacher is a citizen of Spain and she will eventually move home. A green jobs initiative failed to produce jobs. She told my wife the unemployment rate is around 18%. Riots and protests are becoming more frequent. My wife asked if they were like our Tea Party demonstrations here.
The teacher said no, they are non-political. The protesters want change, any change.
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By: James on May 28, 2011
at 8:01 AM
M&H == grassroots. ROTFLMAO!
How can that be true when that very poster posts NOTHING but pro-Democratic advertisements?
As I often say, Sweetheart if you have an allergy to irony, you are a dead woman.
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By: PFesser on May 28, 2011
at 7:56 AM
Wayne, occasionally, my superiors in the service assigned me to work with jerks because I was the only one who could deal with them.
Even so, a year after my hard times, I grew very angry.
The leadership treated me differently than they should have out of guilt over what had happened to me. I carried that anger home, and eventually decided I had to control it.
I warned people that when they dumped on me, I was fighting others who were superimposed on them. Besides the bad guys, I was also reliving the memory of several grad school classes. The professor graded us on class participation, and he expected us to turn on one another which we did. The winners got higher grades.
I also posted on two strictly moderated message boards. One wrong word could get one suspended or banned.I was suspended for several months. A group of ten liberals created another web site so I could stay in touch, and so they could tease me about being such a bad boy. I think I was suspended fifteen or twenty times. Later, I became one of the moderators. Those experiences taught me some things.
I am goal -oriented, and I did not delude myself over my ability to change minds. I wanted the mood to become more civil, and it has. I’m not sure why. I set goals, and things just sort of happen. My life has been charmed.
My wife seems a little like you. She would also tell me not to waste my time. I asked a conservative e friend who like me used to visit one of the liberal blogs to visit this one. She lasted two hours and told me it was a refuge for nuts.
I have been in the debris and dust field of two tornado funnels. Both chased me on our farm. As a storm spotter, it is my responsibility to report these things as quickly as possible.
Last Saturday was interesting as the opening salvo of damaging storms developed near us. My wife and I drove toward a storm after we left a high school graduation party. The clouds were beautiful, but I had a feeling, so we stopped. The storm was dropping 1 3/4 diameter hail four or five miles away.
I hope the big storms stay away from you. As you know getting hit by an EF 5 tornado is like being touched by the hand of God.
This La Nino season is similar to 1974 according to a local meteorologist. If so, the weather will quickly change from stormy to hot and dry in June.
We face another problem. Up to a foot of rain fell on parts of Montana last weekend. That water is coming downstream as the Corps of Engineers empty record amounts of water from the resevours. Meanwhile, the Rocky Mountains have had a record amount of snowfall. It usually reaches its peak in mid April. This year, the peak is now, and it has not started to melt much. Sudden heat or rain may give us more water than we can handle.
It would be ironic if the stormy period turned into a drought with the risk of summer floods.
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By: James on May 28, 2011
at 7:38 AM
and one more for the road….
M&H ‘s = grassroots..
Thank you M&H for allowing us to come together and organize our efforts. I/we are extremely grateful for your hospitality!
Now lets make this happen again…
http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?p=u+tube+obama+summer+strategy
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By: lori on May 28, 2011
at 6:46 AM
How far we have come… many more miles to go… please consider joining the team!
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BarackObamadotcom
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By: lori on May 28, 2011
at 6:39 AM
Good morning friends….I hope everyone is enjoying their holiday weekend! Kick off the summer in style.. but be safe. xo
This started my morning off with a chuckle… remember folks it’s the Onion. 😉
enjoy
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/nascar-awards-driver-50000-for-homophobic-comments,20611/
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By: lori on May 28, 2011
at 6:27 AM
Jean –
Jean opined:
“While the poor ole regressives continue to founder, trying to find a qualified, let alone, competent male presidential candidate for 2012, Palin and Bachmann have emerged as the latest contenders. Teabaggers both? For the sole purpose of amusement, that is a catfight I don’t want to miss! An intellectual battle of wits between two airheads.”
I think you mean “flounder,” don’t you? “Founder” is derived from the same root root word as “foundation,” which means, basically, to sink or go to the bottom, like a ship.
“Flounder” means to thrash around, and the ReBiblicans are certainly doing that, aren’t they? I don’t think they have much of anybody to run this election. In trying to pander to the RR, they have alienated their somewhat better-informed traditional base, and now many traditional Republicans are just sitting on the sidelines, waiting for the Republican party to arise, like the Phoenix, from the ashes of its own undoing. When they once again become the party of low taxes and small government, we’ll be back. Until then it looks unfortunately like Bo’s the boy.
re: catfight. I would like to see them go at it for real, in a cage!
With no panties. Just kidding – (Well, now that I think of it, maybe not…)
re: teabaggers. No, they are Tea Partiers. Elton John is a teabagger.
no mas, te
PFesser the Pedantic
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By: PFesser on May 28, 2011
at 6:14 AM
I concur much with Wayne. Though I would have 1. Mitt Romney and 2. Rudy Giuliani
I would set in motion to get the fair tax going. I too would be rid of The Department of Education, ditto on insurance. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd would have a special spot in an overseas prison. I would start building refineries and open up exploration for drilling. Immediately get plans for nuclear power plant construction going. Shrink the size and lower wages in government. No more lifetime health benefits.
I would retrofit our Navy Aircraft Carrier Fleets. Retire/retrofit 2 Carriers to a drone fleet. I would lessen our presence in the world and bring more troops home. Secure our boarders, secure our boarders, secure our boarders. I would send some of our best military minds out and teach other countries how to defend themselves with the resources at hand and stop being the worlds military police.
I would give the U.N. an overhaul and find a way to make it an effective organization. You attack a member country, you get taken off the map.
I would lay down the law with China and come to a trade agreement that is beneficial to someone other than just China.
Pakistan can say goodbye to $1 billion a year we are giving them.
I would legalize drugs and produce it here and tax the hell out of it. Use the tax dollars generated from that and the billions saved on the war on drugs to improve education, healthcare, and social security.
Last I would make it top priority for our scientists to find a way to resurrect Ronald Regan, the greatest president of the 20th century, put the red cape and boots on him and set him to work to fix this mess.
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 10:01 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
As I understand it, the auto industries have paid back, with interest, the loans the Obama administration made to them to keep them afloat. Does anyone know or have figures on the Wall Street bailout that the Bush administration jammed through, right down to the wire before the end of his second term? Have any of them paid back anything, and if so, how much? I haven’t heard.
While the poor ole regressives continue to founder, trying to find a qualified, let alone, competent male presidential candidate for 2012, Palin and Bachmann have emerged as the latest contenders. Teabaggers both? For the sole purpose of amusement, that is a catfight I don’t want to miss! An intellectual battle of wits between two airheads. On second thought, considering the pitch of both their voices, especially when they get to the screeching stage, for me, it’s just like fingernails on the blackboard. Personally, I can only stand about 10 seconds of it and that’s when I turn off the TV.
All those “Red-Blooded American Men” can fantasize through it to their heart’s content.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 27, 2011
at 9:23 PM
(1) Duncan Hunter; (2) Rudy Giuliani; (3) Mitt Romney; (4) Anybody but John McCain…he’s an idiot and too stupid and ineffective to lead, as attested to by his horrid campaign and his performance since. McCain is without doubt, the dumbest Republican Senator.
Immediately begin to lower corporate tax rates, open health insurance competition across state lines, secured the borders, cut regulation and eliminated Sarbanes Oxley, eliminated the Department of Education and Energy, put about 1,000 white collar criminals from Wall Street in a maximum security prison for the rest of their lives including but not limited to mortgage bankers, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters, Chuck Schumer, and any exec affiliated with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, begin drilling in ANWAR, exploited oil sands from Canada and built a pipeline from there to here, froze social security rate hikes, taken our pain immediately with no bail outs, begin a massive nuclear energy build, canned QE1 and QE2 and booted Ben Bernacke, etc…
Inept, bloated, corrupt, and completely inefficient big government. I would have immediately ask each department to cut 10% of their budget, minus the defense budget which needs further evaluation.
Well on our way to recovery from a deep recession, and a hell of a lot better than under Obama. Jimmy Carter was more competent than Obama, who is a national disgrace and dangerously incompetent.
Mahalo Nui Loa for asking. 🙂
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 8:35 PM
Noah,
Okay I will give you my answers. But since I asked you should go first.
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 27, 2011
at 7:43 PM
I would like to see your answer to those questions as well Cynthia
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 7:20 PM
Wayne and Noah,
“by a clown who couldn’t manage a lemonade stand” – Wayne
Okay, you feel Obama is “the worst president ever” my words not yours. Personally Millard Fillmore is my choice but that is neither here nor there.
May I ask you for your opinion on the following questions? Not a trick just looking for an honest answer since you feel Obama has done anything right.
Back before the primary of all the candidates running who would you have chosen?
What do you think they should have done after taking office to fix the problems we were faced with?
Which of the problems we were facing do you think was the most pressing?
What would you do if you were President?
Where do you think we would be today if your choice had been elected President?
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 27, 2011
at 6:39 PM
PFesser,
Wive and I loved Sicily. She’s half Italian and learned all the tricks of Italian cooking.
My body can attest to it!
Sicily was unique and beautiful…Had spent a week in Italy proper..too many people
especially Rome..but outside Florence and Tuscany..very nice!
Were there on a cruise to several ports last October.
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By: Craig on May 27, 2011
at 6:06 PM
LMAO! Noah’s getting all puffed up and proud to hang with the rutherford bullies.
TexasMargie, how ya figure? Could ya point out some text that would support this claim? I mean…anything at all? I would hate for people to get the impression your talking out the side of your ass.
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 6:04 PM
James, my grandfather paid 90% in taxes! That means for every dollar he made he got 10 cents. The interesting part was because of his income he thought that was a fair tax. My grandfather didn’t finish eighth grade and started as a janitor at the bank. He worked his way up to being the President of that bank for which he swept floors.
Everything in perspective. I do know the tax rate in many countries is higher than ours as well as the price of petrol. Maybe the benefits they receive balances out the difference such as health benefits, etc.
Wayne, my opinion of Colin Powell is based on his career before Bush. I feel he compromised his principles and left public office for that reason. This is where we agree to disagree as the man is intelligent but not a politician. I was very disappointed in Powell during his tour the Bush Administration. Yes, he was a waffler under Bush and I often wondered what was going on behind the scenes.
I did forget “storming Norman”. My bad 😳
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By: Raji on May 27, 2011
at 5:59 PM
LMAO! Noah’s getting all puffed up and proud to hang with the rutherford bullies. Like a little kid at the big people table! He must be relieved to have the mean kids on his side for a change instead of giving him wedgies and hitting on his sister.
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By: TexasMargie on May 27, 2011
at 5:20 PM
Here ya go Joe
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 5:17 PM
Actually Joe I prophetically answered that for you above. After promising to end the war (you can take that to the bank) he sent in more troops, and still more troops.
lol I got about to the second paragraph of that post and it is so laced with fallacy I couldn’t read on.
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 5:07 PM
Please remind me why our boys are being killed in Afghanistan again. I forgot. Isn’t Karzai corrupt? I forget the details but you brilliant fellows can bring me up to speed.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/new-cnn-poll-54-believe-harsh-rhetoric-
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By: JuneauJoe. on May 27, 2011
at 5:00 PM
Ah James, I pity their twisted existence – they are woefully confused. With you and Pfesser, I don’t even witness a fair fight when you engage them. I just like to pile on. Why the nags find Noah so atrocious is a mystery too.
And I do admire your restraint – honestly. If I really though it would open a few eyes, I’d make the attempt to be a little more professional and reserved. But these hatemongers don’t deserve respect – some of their crap is so far over the top, that my worst angel takes over and a virtual smack across the face with a boot to the head is returned. Fighting fire with fire, so to speak. Rank propaganda mixed with snark and a false sense of smugness doesn’t cut it with me.
I can close my eyes after reading your words and hear my wife James. Only she would have added, “Quit wasting your time and do something useful.
If you’re a storm chaser, you’ve had a busy season. I have been surrounded by death this spring and drove through Tushka, OK, two days before the tornado started this whole process, and was in Joplin recently. I think they’re following me around. 😦
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 4:28 PM
Ragi, here is another reason I believe we are doomed. Stephen Moore of the Wall Street Journal wrote that if planned Democratic tax hikes were approved, the maximum estimated state and federal tax would be 62%.
In 1990, the highest income tax rate of our trading partners was 51% while ours was 33%. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development says the highest rate averages about 45% while the United States rate is now about 48%.
The Tax Foundation observed that in 2009, the US collected 45% in pay roll taxes from the richest 10% if tax payers. Social welfare states like Sweden, France and Germany collected 27%, 28%, and 31% respectively.
Anyone with a little knowledge of economics should know we are becoming less competitive than our trading partners, and that hurts employment.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 4:11 PM
Wayne,
Here is another reason for me to try to be nice. A man I knew on another message board and I found some commonalty after a fierce argument about Bush and Iraq. He was editing a farmers almanac for a friend and former boss.
We became friendlier, and he “hired” me to guess the national weather for three years. I am a volunteer weather observer and storm chaser, so it was a big deal for me.
I vote for “Stormin Norman” too.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 3:36 PM
Ragi, what do you mean “I am no match for the dueling dudes?” You don’t give yourself enough credit. I sometimes disagree with you, but you are sharp.
PFessor and Wayne, Lori wrote that one shouldn’t wrestle with pigs. They only make you muddy. Her ignoring you is keeping the mud on her side of the pen. She will never know I compared her to swine.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 3:25 PM
Raji,
Umm Raji – I just left a short tome of O’Bama presidential bloopers listed above for your perusal. I’m at a loss how you could make that charge.
That’s parody, right? Colin Powell is the ultimate politician and waffler, and possibly about 10% as smart as Norman Schwarzkopf. Come on. You can do better than that. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 3:15 PM
Raji,
there = their 🙂
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 3:10 PM
Pfesser,
Lori is status quo of the typical Lib here and elsewhere. With their enter lives invested in Obama 2008 (it’s there religion), and now that it is obvious Obama and his policies are a sham and abysmal failure, they are back to Bush 2000 – it’s all they’ve got. Only now they have a real problem. A track record.
Notice how Lori has an incredible case of selective memory? Maybe we should discuss the recent record of Tuscon Sheriff Clarence Dupnik? Hmmm…
On May 05, 2011, Dupnik’s crack SWAT team broke into the home of Jose Guerena, an ex-Marine who had served two tours in Iraq, and cut him down in a hail of 71 bullets. Guerena was struck by 60 bullets, but the crack Dupnik SWAT didn’t allow a medic into the house for over an hour. Guerena miraculously was alive for several minutes and eventually bled to death while in waiting. Had to tidy things up a bit.
And what do we hear from Lori? Waiting, waiting, waiting. Have you heard anything of this across the news wire? CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC? Now I’ve been out of pocket, but I haven’t heard a damn thing in liberal circles making notice that maybe there’s a problem.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 3:09 PM
“So, tell me again Raji, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and impressive again?”
Now Wayne, let’s not change the subject. I thought we were discussing POTUS bloopers. Frankly the last person in our government that I thought was brilliant and impressive was Colin Powell.
I appreciated your little 😳 I am no match for the Dueling Dudes here or at R’s but it’s fun to read and lots of food for thought.
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By: Raji on May 27, 2011
at 3:02 PM
Lori, we recently had similar arrests here in Vegas, public officials and public employees either ripping off the public or involved with drugs.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 27, 2011
at 2:48 PM
Now if NOP could just follow her own advice eh?
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 2:32 PM
NO One’s Puppet, I think your “be friendly when you can…” comment is one of the best today I would substitute people for Republicans. I do have a problem with not being able to ignore the ugly.
Wayne, you could do worse than run out of money in British Columbia. The scenery is beautiful.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 2:17 PM
lori –
I guess I don’t get it. They were arrested, weren’t they? Sounds to me like Arpaio did his job. Just because you are the only official doing his job – and the Federal Government’s job that they refuse to do – doesn’t make you Superman or give you clairvoyance. But when you discover your employees breaking the law, you arrest them. I don’t see the problem here.
Or is his real crime that of not hewing to that, “DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST agenda? C’mon, now, fess up. That’s REALLY it, isn’t it?
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 2:12 PM
Ragi, I agree with you about the people who say they want to fix Medicare. IF past behavior is any indication of future activity, we are doomed.
That is a very good and long list Wayne Perram . Thanks for reminding us. We know if Obama had done those things the news media would have made them their lead stories. People here would have lambasted Bush had he tried what Obama did.
I forgot to write, after my experiences before and after I came home, I don’t get angry for more than a few minutes, now.
Noah, I didn’t mean you or anyone in particular when I commented about people’s not appreciating one’s genius. I was just enjoying the song.
As I write this I am also on the phone with a friend listening to her sort out her personal soap opera. It happens in small communities.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 2:06 PM
LOL LOL You just can’t make this stuff up!
Say it ain’t so, Joe:
Three cops working for Arizona’s notorious Sheriff Joe Arpaio were arrested this morning for human smuggling, narcotics trafficking, and laundering money for a vast drug ring with ties to Mexico’s Sinaloa cartel. One of the cops, Deputy Alfredo Navarrette, was a ten-year veteran of Arpaio’s controversial anti-human smuggling division, which has been criticized for civil rights violations. After Navarrette’s arrest, a sweep of his apartment turned up two illegal immigrants. Another cop, Marcella Hernandez, is eight months pregnant with the child of the cartel’s capitán. She had nearly $20,000 on her when she and Sylvia Najera, another corrections officer, were arrested this morning. Guess when Arpaio started calling himself “America’s Toughest Sheriff,” he forgot to add, “unless it’s happening right in front of me.”
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By: lori on May 27, 2011
at 1:49 PM
Remember all, even if a food thrower is a Republican, it doesn’t mean all Republicans are food throwers. Be friendly when you can, joke when you must, and ignore them when they are are really ugly.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 27, 2011
at 1:44 PM
Here Elsie, I picked this one especially for you and your closet Muslim for President, Jeremiah Wright II. Even Canada recognizes one when they see it….send this to the “Conservative” CSM for me, will you? What a fine ally Barry Soetoro has proven himself… 🙄
Maybe we can get in bed with Putin.
Canada Defends Israel From Obama Administration – Blocks 1967 Line From G8 Statement
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/05/wow-canada-defends-israel-blocks-obamas-1967-line-from-g8/
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 1:33 PM
🙂 Yeah, my wife seemed quite fond of Austria. Such simple women we are married to. I might make it as far British Columbia before we ran out of money.
I understand something about Costa Rica seems appealing to the major players Pfesser. Now they are out of my league, but there must be something appealing about the tax laws or the shelters there too.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 1:25 PM
Somebody thinks the Christian Science Monitor is Conservative? ** GUFFAW ** Psst…so is Slate. This place never ceases to amuse me. The idiocy alone keeps me coming back for more. It’s like rubbernecking a train wreck.
A strange place. A dollop of wonderfully talented, reasonable professionals with some good ideas, followed by a multitude of dysfunctional illiterates from Chatty Cathy’s Kitchen in response.
And just for you Raji. 😳 Make that rationale.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 1:20 PM
NOP, yes, Iowa may be our best option. However, Brandon is our fall back just in case. The last I checked, the Canadian economy was recovering faster than ours. Its true, the Canadian health service has more problems than ours. Canadians travel to the United States for more timely care than they can get with their national service, but we will see what happens after Obamacare begins.
I like to discuss subjects other than the weather or crops. I used those subjects to illustrate the similarities between Manitoba and Iowa. Corner Gas is a defunct Canadian comedy. It reminds me of Iowa and Nebraska.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 1:15 PM
Think so Raji? So you like a brief summary? For starters, I don’t recall George Bush ever referring to our military as CORPSEMAN three times in a prepared speech. How about a SHOUT OUT at the ceremony, before announcing 13 people had been killed at Ft. Hood?
But from an old post. Was George Bush the dumbest President ever?
===========================================
If George W. Bush had given Prime Minister Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Prime Minister Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?
If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent “Austrian language,” would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?
If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current on their income taxes, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to Cinco de Cuatro in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the fourth of May (Cuatro de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you have winced in embarrassment?
If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word “advice” would you have hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and ‘potatoe’ as proof of what a dunce he is?
If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he’s a hypocrite?
If George W. Bush’s administration had okayed Air Force One flying low over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown Manhattan, causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually get what happened on 9-11?
If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?
If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in New Orleans, would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue with claims of racism and incompetence?
If George W. Bus h had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have approved?
If George W.. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10 years, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plans holdings of GM stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had spent thousands of dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?
If George Bush had “invested” $862 billion of your tax money with the promise it would keep unemployment from extending beyond 8%, then when evaluated it was determine only a handful of jobs were permanent which cost $228K per job, and the unemployment rate reached 10.2% with real unemployment closer to 20%, would you so easily have excused it?
So, tell me again Raji, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and impressive again? And mind you, this was only a partial list in Obama’s first nine months.
I can go on…
Now you don’t seem to be the protypical rube I meet here, so I assume you have at least some semblance of rational and fairness. You tell me what you think in all honesty.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 1:11 PM
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Walter-Rodgers/2011/0527/The-big-lie-that-Obama-can-t-lead-is-crumbling
I thought the Christian Science Monitor was a conservative publication. And here it goes with “The Big Lie that Obama Can’t Lead Is Crumbling”…
Here’s just a quick excerpt of an interesting commentary for any of Helen’s curious folks.
(snip)
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,” instructed the Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels, “people will eventually come to believe it.”
“For 2-1/2 years, the big lie repeated about President Obama has been that he’s not a real leader. Responsible critics called him diffident, spineless, and rudderless. Irresponsible critics called him a socialist, a Muslim, and not an American. Now, even after his brilliant planning and direction of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, detractors are complaining that he didn’t have the guts to release photos of Mr. bin Laden’s corpse…”
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By: Elsie on May 27, 2011
at 1:04 PM
Thank you Wayne Perram. I think you are a good man too. You may be right about how I treat people, but it is ingrained. My parents taught me to respect every one, even my enemies. I live in a thinly -settled community which through several unique quirks, includes mixed Indians, blacks, and Hispanics, most of whom are distant cousins.
It is bad to attack your neighbor, though he be a jerk. You might need him/her some day. As you might expect, everyone knows everyone’s business, and it is better to find some common ground than to start a fight. Besides, I am naturally kind and like to help people when I can.
I was the veteran guest on Science Friday, All Things Considered on NPR several years ago. They were discussing a new psychological deprograming for returning veterans from Afghanistan and Iraq. I told a little of my story, and one panelist said I was a perfect storm of the type they were trying to help.
It was hard when I came home, but my wife helped me rebuild myself. I still remember my first orientation party in grad school when they learned I was a veteran. “You don’t belong here, you fascist. We’ll get rid of you!” They were the spiritual brothers and sisters of some who post here. So, yes, I could still be angry, but what good would it do?
I love my brother. We get along fine. However, two days after I came home, I tried to kill him with my bare hands because he wasn’t my brother.
I couldn’t change the real world, so I made my own. I am happy, even though it intrudes. I know what’s coming. Even our doctor told me we will be in a world of hurt within ten or twenty years.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 1:02 PM
I refuse to link a conservative blogger so I had to do a copy and paste. Sorry for the length.. Remember this is a CONSERVATIVE blogger.
Ahhh sweet music to my ears. 😉
Red state dot com : Eirck Erickson
After the historic gains made by conservatives — not just Republicans — in 2010, the conservative movement stands to slide back and lose in 2012.
I’m not talking about the race to the White House. I’m talking about the United States Senate. At a time when Senate Republicans refuse to lead and Mitch McConnell is doing his best to marginalize the solid conservatives, the right is distracted by the White House. The same GOP that tried to stick the right with Trey Greyson, Charlie Crist, Mike Castle, and more is going to try again. If conservatives are not vigilant, they’re going to be stuck with the likes of Heather Wilson, etc.
Let’s review the lay of the land and the states I’m interested in.
Arizona
I’m going with Jeff Flake here. He’s not a perfect candidate, but I believe he is the best candidate and the most likely candidate to be a thorn in the GOP leadership’s side in the Senate. That is no small matter. We need to keep up internal pressure on the GOP and Flake can do that.
Florida
Adam Hasner is the guy conservatives should rally to. LeCrist is the D.C. favorite, but he is tied too deeply to Charlie Crist. Haridopolous does not impress me and I expect the opposition to make great hay out of some of his more dubious issues, including that book.
Indiana
I’m not prepared to endorse here yet, but it is clear Dick Lugar needs to go, and more and more it looks like Richard Mourdock is the guy to do it. Mourdock would be a clear improvement over Dick Lugar. Conservatives have a real shot to toss Lugar and keep Indiana.
MIssissippi
I’d love to take out Roger Wicker. It’d be good for the conservative movement. The guy is terrible. But I don’t see any conservative stepping up right now in state where Wicker is eminently beatable in a primary according to some recent polling from PPP that shows Wicker is only one point ahead from a generic conservative alternative.
Missouri
Right now I’m looking at Sarah Steelman, but I’m undecided here. McCaskill is going to be hard to beat with Obama on the ballot in 2012.
Montana
The present Republican in the race, Denny Rehberg, is not the best the GOP can do. I don’t know who can step up in Montana, but Rehberg should be considered the bottom of the barrel, not the best available candidate to run.
Nebraska
Conservatives going with Jon Bruning are making a terrible mistake. I realize the Bible is a story of repentance and forgiveness, but you don’t put the new converts in the Senate where they have six years to go Chuck Hagel on us. Don Stenberg is my guy for this race.
“I would love to persuade you that trickle down economics was a farce or that Ronald Reagan was incapable of understanding complex policy arguments.”
“I believe in gun control.”
“I think a woman should have a right to choose.”
Those are just some of Jon Bruning’s greatest hits.
Yes, he has grown up. Yes, he has changed. Yes, he is center-right now. But I want to put a guy in the Senate who has a long term conservative track record. Conservatives have been burned once before by Nebraska with Chuck Hagel.
I’m going with Don Stenberg.
New Mexico
The number one goal of conservatives in 2012, other than defeating Barack Obama, has got to be defeating Heather Wilson in New Mexico. She’d be Mike Castle terrible in the United States Senate. Luckily, we have a strong, viable challenger to her in the primary named John Sanchez.
We should rally early for Sanchez to stop Wilson.
Ohio
Two words: Josh Mandel
Tennessee
Surely conservatives can find somebody decent to beat the heck out of Bob Corker in a primary in Tennessee. Corker is terrible. He pushes the Senate GOP left and toward capitulation. He is contemptuous of conservatives. He’s bad news.
Conservatives need to rally in Tennessee and take out Bob Corker. If keeping Heather Wilson out of the Senate is priority number one, number two is ridding the Senate of Bob Corker.
Texas
Too soon to decide yet between Williams and Cruz. But at all costs we need to stop Leppert. I think even DewCrist would be better than Leppert.
Wisconsin
No idea on this one, but Tommy Thompson needs to be beaten. We don’t need to fill John Ensign’s void with a guy like Thompson. That’s even above and beyond his Obamacare support, etc. Beloved or not in Wisconsin, conservatives can do much, much better.
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By: lori on May 27, 2011
at 12:39 PM
My wife has made it plain that she would pull up stakes for Belize within the week.
Sicily by tomorrow morning.
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 12:33 PM
And you’d get universal health care in both places, lol. It is very expensive at the moment to live in Great Britain or Canada (I think, Canada) at the moment. Same in France, very expensive in the cities there, but considered cheaper in the countryside, until you factor in a auto and petrol. I was told in Britain, that city and countryside were both expensive. You might have to stay in Iowa, there are probably worse places and even better places, but if you want to discuss the crops and the markets and the weather, Iowa is as good a place as any.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 27, 2011
at 12:28 PM
October 27, 2007. Canidate Obama makes a speech saying: “I Will promise you this, that if we haven’t gotten our troups out by the time I am President, it is the first thing I will do, we will get our troops home, I will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank.”
February 18, 2009. Obama orders 17,000 more U.S. troops to Afghanistan. The first stage of a build up that will eventually see 60,000 additional troops sent in.
December 1, 2009, President Obama says it an address: “It is in our vital national interest to send an additional 30,000 troops into Afghanistan.”
A Politician like any other. You know he is telling a lie when his lips are moving.
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 12:20 PM
No One’s Puppet, we have anglophilia as badly as you. Our first choice would be Great Bardfield, Essex, but that bus has left the station.
Brandon, Manitoba is a little over an hour’s drive west of Winnipeg. It is a nice clean small city with a rural culture similar to ours down here. Visiting with the farmers there is like talking to plains farmers. We use the same brands of machinery, and some of our crop types overlap. The towns people seem friendly, and the weather is similar to ours, though winters are longer and colder. It is also less than a long day’s drive from our farm and home.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 11:50 AM
Some people on H&M don’t appreciate your genius?
Its not that Joe doesn’t have potential but all he does is regurgitate information. I can do my own web research. Now should he ever want to share what he thinks on what he posts, then maybe he would have my attention.
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 11:49 AM
James, just curious, what town outside of the United States would you and the wife choose to live in?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 27, 2011
at 10:49 AM
However if you tally up the blunders that Bush made, I think his would outnumber Obama’s.
Maybe in quantity but not in magnitude.
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 10:23 AM
Wayne, I don’t think anyone can explain or defend a POTUS blunder made by the current one or the previous one. However if you tally up the blunders that Bush made, I think his would outnumber Obama’s.
Besides “Heck of a job Brownie” there is “hard working Americans trying to put food on their family”.
Anyone remember any others? So I’m not really sure what your point was.
“We’re in the best of hands.”
Better than being in the hands of McCain and Palin!!!!!!!!!!
James, Medicare is a BIG problem and the problem is not going to be solved by Congress “persons” who have no clue as to how to operate the machinery much less understand the principles on which it operates.
Medicare recipients pay around $250 a month for full coverage which is about average for a group policyholder whereas an individual will usually pay more. Senior citizens are not on the dole here.
I don’t know the answer either.
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By: Raji on May 27, 2011
at 9:50 AM
James, I’m sure that is true. You read like a good man.
But businesses will refuse to hire, and why should they? When there are millions of JuneauJoe’s out there, I wouldn’t hire either. In fact, I’d be exploring ways to get rid of as much wage and salary expense as possible immediately, possibly move my business elsewhere while I still have the chance.
When you’ve got hostility directed your way every day by a hostile and inept government led by a clown who couldn’t manage a lemonade stand; when the meme is “higher taxes” and the government has declared you enemy #1;. when draconian, useless and idiotic regulations continued to be shoved down your throat; when you’ve been hit with Obamacare and have no idea what the expense, but you know it’s going up dramatically, who can really blame companies for not hiring?
Your problem James is that you base your opinions under the assumption you’re dealing with reasonable adults. Liberals are amoral children in need of having their noses wiped for them. Because you are respectful, you treat these adversaries as equals, but you’d be better trying to explain the objections to your pet. Liberals simply don’t understand because they are incapable of sound thought.
Give you an example of what is happening in the real world.
Long before Medicare goes broke, which will happen within ten years in my estimation, doctors will simply quit accepting Medicare patients. It’s been happening for a while now and is the attrition is escalating. One of the reasons I said to hell with finishing medical school – I decided this system is going to collapse and I’m going to be stuck holding the bill with an IRS knife at my throat and not enough time to recoup the losses.
Case and point. I told this story elsewhere on another blog. My mother had a routine checkup with an annual colonoscopy. She paid nothing out of pocket and months went by – then she receives a notice thinking it a bill. No bill – just notice. Medicare reimbursed the doctor’s office $67 for the colonoscopy. Her supplemental insurance (and I can’t remember the name), paid another $24. $91 reimbursement for a relatively lengthy procedure.
Now, it’s possible that the reimbursement will be disputed and perhaps this isn’t the end of it. I have no idea and neither does my mother. But either conclusion is bad. No doctor is going to continue to practice at a loss. And if he disputes the claim, that is time and money too, which should be spent providing health care.
You’re going to be stuck with the worst government doctors working for meager wages, because the good ones are going to say to hell with this and do something else. And that really concerns me, because I’ve got a daughter in med school.
I don’t know if I can continue much longer to protect her from the profound stupidity of our government.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 9:48 AM
Wal-mart got you down? The economy or future of Medicare? Some people on H&M don’t appreciate your genius? Well, take a break with the Paralyzer, Finger Eleven video on you tube.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 9:41 AM
That’s something I forgot to mention. Small businesses and large will do everything in their power to avoid hiring new people. I know of two examples connected with our famiy.
My wife and I have prepared. We have land, assets, and the space to raise our own food and if necessary, our own fuel. Neither of us will collect Social Security until we turn seventy, because we don’t need it. We know which town we want to live in if conditions become too bad in the United States.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 9:08 AM
Mikat, don’t sweat it, it has never been your kind’s strong suit to rise above pettiness and personal attacks to engage in honest debate on ideas. I guess when you know you are wrong and there are people to call you on it, being petty is all you’ve got. Just ask NOP and delurkergurl. Or better yet be like Joe and lori…plug your ears, close your eyes and scream at the top of your lungs…LIBERALS ARE BEST…..LIBERALS ARE BEST
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 9:03 AM
Wal-Mart: The Monopoly that is driving small businesses in towns out of business.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 27, 2011
at 9:00 AM
It depends on which sort of tax increase we use. If we base taxes on productivity and job creation, we lose. We need to expropriate more assets which are not directly related to job production as I think the People’s Budget does. Maybe cutting or eliminating subsidies or taxing second and third homes would help. Perhaps a surtax on CEO’s salaries with a too large ratio compared to the average employee within the company would help. I don’t know.
The People’s Budget, while it has good features, will not reduce the budget as projected. The rich will find ways to avoid high taxes. Some may incorporate to take advantage of lower corporate rates. They will shelter or defer income or move it or themselves off shore. Businesses will decamp to tax havens.
Maybe a combination of the Fair Tax and People’s Budget would work. Again, I don’t know. I do know whatever option we use will be painful. What if we raised sellective taxes and cut everything in the budget by ten per cent?
Leaving Afghanistan would save some money, but we can’t just leave. We must leave in a way which implies we believe we have won, not lost and that we reserve the right to return. Maybe the success of the recent surge will let us declare “victory.”
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 8:57 AM
Wayne –
I don’t remember if I shared the story of a friend, local contractor, with whom I spoke about this very thing about two months ago. When I mentioned the jobs going overseas, he surprised me very much by nailing it immediately: EPA rules, OSHA rules and corporate taxes. Then I realized that while I had studied these things, he LIVED them every day.
He told me he had downsized from 25 worker bees to 9 and if his taxes went up further he was “going to take a little vacation,” and liquidate all his equipment and close shop. He is about 35 yrs old and a hard worker. So class envy has just cost 26 taxpayers, if you count him.
What will happen if Atlas, who holds up the whole world, REALLY shrugs? As Thatcher said, the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. Of course as you are implementing it, productive people quit working and you run out even sooner. Has nobody here even heard of the Laffer curve? It ain’t that hard to understand. When you kill the goose that lays the golden egg, pretty soon YOU are broke, but these folks are so envious that somebody might have a little more than they do that they are killing the source of their own income. Sigh…some never learn
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 8:50 AM
Compassion and Cantor: The two do not mix!
http://wonkette.com/446454/after-terrible-tornadoes-eric-cantor-wont-allow-fed-disaster-relief
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By: JuneauJoe on May 27, 2011
at 8:43 AM
Mikat,
I never take too seriously a ‘critic’ who can’t spell vulgar. 😈 Go back for remedial insult work, and get back with me when you have passed and removed the dunce cap.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 8:40 AM
The real power of the American economic system is you can always capitalize on other’s idiocy Pfesser. I see you’ve figured the system out too.
As more and more
thievescitizens like Jelly Joe, Lori, Puppet and the other masses from the Left that take up space in America and sell the country out, I simply move my monies to places that are the benefactors of their ignorance: gold, China funds, foreign currency, oil to name only a few.When it all collapses after the
deviantsLibs have pulled the last brick from the wall and breaks their collective back, and manufacturing has moved every semblance of jobs overseas, and the Libs are left starving because there is nothing else to rape and nothing available to steal, I’ll wave the virtual Baby Ruth under their nose with a big smile on my face and take another wet bite. We’ll buy their removal sooner or later.We need to quit treating these imbeciles as inconvenient deadwood and start treating them like mortal enemies. And make sure as reminder when their world turns upside down, they remember the reasons why so our children don’t have to support their children. As example…
I have a friend that employed about ten people in 2008. Upon O’Bamahammed’s big win in Nov. 2008, my buddy grew a little tired of supporting two vocal Obama bums, and marched these two office nags to the unemployed curb, under the guise of “downsizing.” His last words to them were, “I am the generation we’ve been waiting for…” 🙂 Oklahoma is a right to work state and you need no rhyme or reason to fire. He told me every time he gets angry about being screwed by socialists like O’Bama and his toadies like JuneauJoe, he thinks of the two gaped mouths and it brings a smile to his face.
He also added he didn’t feel a damn bit of guilt, and in fact was mad at himself for being foolish enough to hire them in the first place as favor to his wife, and that it would never happen again.
That’s how you treat a feckless
Libthief. They steal from you, you punch back twice as hard. Right Barry?LikeLike
By: Wayne Perram on May 27, 2011
at 8:36 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
You just have to laugh, a big ol belly laugh, right out loud!
Poor little Waynie and Noah, they just keep stompin their feet and thumping their chests “look at me! Pay attention to me!” A couple of two year olds having a temper tantrum.
Wait for it……. 3…2…1 aaaand here are the ugly, nasty “threats” and vulger name calling that is the calling card of our little trolls.
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By: Mikat on May 27, 2011
at 8:26 AM
James O’Keefe is under the orders of a judge? He cannot travel unless a judge approves of his leaving? O’Keefe’s stunts are not protected by the first amendment?
Extreme editing is basically telling lies? Poor James O’Keefe. Wonder if he will end up behind bars? Would that improve his standing in the GOP?
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/05/26/james-okeefe-not-protected-by-first-amendment-has-to-stand-trial-in-ca/
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By: JuneauJoe on May 27, 2011
at 8:13 AM
JJoe –
Have you examined the FairTax? A friend turned me on to it and I thought, yeah, yeah. Then I took a close, real look at it and became a fan.
IT IS NOT THE FLAT TAX. IT IS THE FAIR TAX. Very, very different.
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 8:08 AM
Tax increases need to be part of the mix. I personally think we need to pull out of Afghanistan which could save a few bucks. Big Oil needs to lose its Tax Give aways and the wealthiest need to pay more too.
I like the PEOPLE’S BUDGET, which is realistic and shrinks the deficit.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 27, 2011
at 8:06 AM
Medicare is a BIG problem for us all. Democrats may frighten people without offering viable alternatives for short term gain, but in the end we all will suffer. Our grand children will curse the fools who frittered away their birthrite.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 7:54 AM
Yeah, I’m aware of the Cirrus. It is a new type of aircraft that is billed as the “next great thing” but it has a poor safety record. Of course everyone says it’s that the pilots are not up to flying the thing. My associate wants us to partner on one but I said nothing doing.
The parachute is supposed to enhance safety but hasn’t done so for some reason. It is a very capable aircraft and has advanced systems but seems to not be very stable. In addition it is mostly plastic or fiberglass; I would be terrified to fly it near an electrical storm, although they say it has a conductive skin. My old ’62 Skylane suits me just fine.
Let me show you what those fiberglass fuel tanks do in a crash:
http://nycaviation.com/2011/02/video-phoenix-plane-crash-caught-on-tape/
It looks exactly like one of those fuel-air bombs – apparently with the same result; the pilot was killed. He was fiddle-f**king around with the door, which had popped open and it looks like he went into a stall/spin.
I’ll keep my old Cessna, thankyouverymuch…
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 7:52 AM
I don’t believe Governor Walker and the Kock brothers have actually met. If they had, the governor would have known that voice wasn’t one of the brothers’. The baseball comments were a joke. While they were joshing, labor unions were figuratively using bats and threats.
The layoffs were tied to reducing expenditures, and the governor made it clear.
The labor unions were most angry about the state’s no longer collecting union dues and reimbursing them. That was a clear threat to the status quo.
“Union busting” was a canard to stir up the base. The issue was whether or not state workers would collectively bargain over health and other benefits.
I was at a “town hall” political meeting, and our Republican representatives were talking big about doing something similar in Iowa. I reminded them the labor unions were fighting for their lives as they saw it, and as one who had once fought for my life, I knew they would do whatever it took.
I told them that if they were not prepared for a blood struggle, they ought not bother. My wife kicked me under the table, but I was right.
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 7:48 AM
PFesser,
Did you hear or see in last nights newscast on ABC I think..A 70 yo man passed out at controls of a Cirrus aircraft and his wife had no clue about flying. With the help of a controller at Denver who turned her away from the Mtns. …and a puddle jumper commuter AC, they talked her down in altitude since the autopilot was on. The pilot then came to and they ordered them to land immediately.
Like DUH..
They said over the radio that the pilot was completely passed out at which point he came too and said “no I’m fully aware”. They landed at Farmington NM. I understand the Cirus has a parachute that you can deploy to bring the AC down… I may be wrong in my spelling of the type of AC.
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By: Craig on May 27, 2011
at 7:43 AM
A 62% tax rate.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304066504576343611464445594.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read
Not a problem. I am within easy distance of having my home paid for. I will just do what I did the last time my taxes went out the roof. I will quit work, retire – this time for good – and my tax rate will be zero. Forever.
You can even ride a good horse to death. And when you take away the productive people’s incentive to work, you get LESS revenue, not more.
Bring it on.
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 7:34 AM
Medicare – A BIG problem for Republicans
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/senate-republicans-split-on-vote-to-end-medicare.php
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By: JuneauJoe on May 27, 2011
at 7:33 AM
Memories: Recall Time: TYT
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By: JuneauJoe on May 27, 2011
at 7:10 AM
Poor No One’s Puppet, looks what you have been reduced too. Pointless personal attacks making claims everyone knows to be false just making you look that much more pathetic. There was no form or reason to the last one, just pointless drivel from a sad defeated little person. Grow up kiddo.
I think we need to get lori and Joe together. They have the same exact style and lack of substance post style. Can you imagine the conversation on the first date between these two? Both chattering on at the same time, obvious to what the other is saying going from one random topic to another.
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By: Noah on May 27, 2011
at 7:09 AM
Someone wrote this in the comments section of Hot Air.
“The Democrats can say whatever they like, but I doubt very much if the House is in play. In fact this whole thing can come back and bite them…
After all, the old folks do not like Obamacare any more than they like Ryan’s plan…in fact they probably like it less because under Obamacare, the Medicare cuts are already starting.. but Ryan puts them off for awhile. So it comes down to Ryan vs Obamacare. I am not sure who will win that. It seems to me that if they use Medicare, the Republicans can continue to use Obamacare.
The Democrat who won in NY26 not only got less than 50% of the vote. she did not vote for Obamacare. Will the new Democrats continue to support that legislation?
And they have high profile people like Bill Clinton out there saying ‘be careful’ will they get away with it?”
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 6:46 AM
Let Dead People Pay for Medicare!!! Means testing – just what the Republicans have been talking about, with a bit of a twist!
http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/05/why-not-let-dead-pay-medicare
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By: JuneauJoe on May 27, 2011
at 6:42 AM
JJoe –
Did you see the politicusa article on Rick Scott? I met that dreg when he was CEO of Columbia HCA. We medicos have a name for folks like Rick. A space-occupying lesion.
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 6:39 AM
No Joe they aren’t!!! In spite of the conservative’s push to keep us dumb and poor the American people can see clearly now! Thank heavens.
http://www.toledoblade.com/Medical/2011/05/25/Poll-Ohioans-want-U-S-to-leave-Medicare-alone.html
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/162637-poll-americans-dont-want-social-security-medicare-cuts
last but not least see what these people have to say about it…
http://billionaires.forbes.com/article/091k2EGdAxe0T/quotes?q=billionaire+OR+billionaires+OR+billionaire's
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By: lori on May 27, 2011
at 6:30 AM
That Ed Schultz exchange was funny.
Of course Ed chose his punishment. Kyle Bush and Keven Harvick had an altercation which damaged Harvick’s car and caused a fight between their crews. They went to NASCAR officials and said “We each deserve a $25,000 fine and probation.” Just like Ed.
If you’re still out there Wayne, you asked about the whereabouts of Donna. Sometime around May 14, Jsri unintentionally embarrassed himself with feeble attempts to insult me based on stuff he made up rather than what he should have read. Donna wrote she was tired of the scenery and wouldn’t check the site until after a new post.
Here’s the paraphrase of a quote from Winston Churchill. “You have much to be modest about.” It won’t hurt Jean’s feelings because she will never read it.
Another is “I would match wits with you, but you would come to the battle unarmed.”
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By: James on May 27, 2011
at 6:23 AM
This is how you do it….. 😉
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/26/978703/-HOT-DAMN!-Classic-Anthony-Weiner-rant-on-House-Floor!?via=siderec
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By: lori on May 27, 2011
at 6:22 AM
The GOP REPACKAGES their Medicare CRAP SANDWICH as steak. (But people are not falling for it.)
http://www.politicususa.com/en/the-gop-repackages-their-medicare-crap-sandwhich-as-steak
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By: JuneauJoe on May 27, 2011
at 6:05 AM
lori –
You seem so one dimensional. Do you EVER think about anything critically, or do you just have a wire that goes into your hypothalamus that pulses: “DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST?
I mean, seriously, do you EVER think critically at all? Are you interested in origami or bicycling? Cabbages or kings? Motorcycles or morticians? Airplanes or airboats?
Or do you just have a wire that goes into your hypothalamus that pulses: “DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST?
I mean, seriously, do you EVER think critically at all?
Cordially,
PFesser
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 5:34 AM
I’m liking what I am seeing!!! Yay us…
Yep it’s wayyy early but its a good start!
Click to access PPP_Release_WI_0524930.pdf
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By: lori on May 27, 2011
at 4:42 AM
You want some REAL quotes? From my old friend, Doctor John Henry Holliday:
http://valkilmertherealdeal.com/TombstoneQuotesbyDocHolliday.aspx
“Why Kate, you’re not wearing a bustle! How lewd!”
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 3:33 AM
Jean opined:
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity (inadequacy?) of deeply superficial people.”
Say again? What does that mean? What the hell is a “deeply superficial person?” Would that be like a seriously funny one or a shortly tall one? A fatly thin person or a brightly stupid one?
Where do you get this stuff? Honey, I swear you need to take your Aricept.
Reminds me of a great quote from an old movie, “High Road to China” I think it was…
“The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.” Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigghhhhtttt….
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By: PFesser on May 27, 2011
at 3:26 AM
I see Tex, aka Noah, aka Wayne, has been around this evening. Well big deal, anyway.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 26, 2011
at 11:28 PM
Hey Juneau. Serious question. 🙂
Did I read somebody actually pays for your political consultation or services? Really? 😆 I figured you worked in a car wash, or something.
Vermont, hey? That’s great Joe. Vermont also has a self-professed socialist as Senator. Vermont is about as relevant to the success or failure of the U.S. as say Tijuana or NY 26. Matter of fact, I can’t think of a better state to try your the left’s machinations. It will be awesome to see their pointy little heads sink into the abyss, if it makes the news.
Vermont could be swallowed by earth tonight and I doubt half of America would know it until after next year’s election, or maybe the syrup stopped showing up on the shelves.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 26, 2011
at 10:53 PM
JuneauJoe hate to burst your bubble of ignorance.
Sean Hannity during an election misquoted a Democratic candidate 3 days before an election vote was to take place. He invited the Democrat on his show to publicly apologies and gave him 30 minutes of free time on his show ON election day to advertise his political campaign. Now that is class.
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By: Noah on May 26, 2011
at 10:10 PM
Single Payer Health Care will be in Vermont!!! Great Job Vermont!!
We need to start it somewhere! I think the rest of the country will be getting it in the future.
Wayne: Ha, Ha, Ha – You actually believe the garbage you post? Ha, Ha, ha
Feeling a bit sorry for you and your massive brain – I think you have been sitting on your brain too long.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/democracy-now-vermont-poised-become-1st-st
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By: JuneauJoe on May 26, 2011
at 9:59 PM
Oh gawd…. He did it to save his skin. Too late – he’ll be gone the way of the other reject Olbermann in a few months. GE is gone, so save your breath. Like you, Ed’s days are numbered, and he’s been weighed in the scales and found wanting.
FIFY.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 26, 2011
at 7:34 PM
Hey Libs?
If you all are capable of removing your lips from the public teat for minute, and will turn your attention this way.
I want to remind you of another sterling O’Zero’s diplomatic success story. Why don’t some of you
lemmings“Chatty Kitchen geniuses” explain this to the world in Zero’s defense while you take a break from gaggling? Genius Joe, you can still suckle.February 2009:
— POTUS returns the valuable bust of Churchill the British loaned us, without telling the British government first.
March 2009:
— POTUS doesn’t greet the British PM at the airport.
— POTUS gives the nearly-blind British PM a gift of not particularly special DVDs that won’t play on British DVD players.
April 2009:
— FLOTUS breaks protocol by touching the Queen.
— FLOTUS gives the Queen an iPod with Obama speeches on it.
— POTUS calls Britain “England” in a speech in Britain.
May 2009:
— Administration excludes the Queen from D-Day anniversary plans.
June 2010:
— POTUS repeatedly refers to BP as “British Petroleum”, triggering annoyance in Britain (BP is a merger of British Petroleum and the American Oil Co).
—–
That’s the nation’s
most ignorant douche bagsmartest POTUS eva’. Remember? 😈 But that’s not the scariest part. If you want to talk about remaining stuck on stupid, while your buffoon for President, Zero, was screwing the pooch, Biden was running the country.We’re in the best of hands. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on May 26, 2011
at 7:29 PM
Ed Schultz makes a stupid comment re: Laura Ingraham AND APOLOGIZES! He must be a Democrat because Republlcans DO NOT APOLOGIZE! He even volunteered to take time off without pay for the slut comment. Ed Schultz is an honorable man.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-schultz-apologizes-calling-laura-ingrah
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By: JuneauJoe on May 26, 2011
at 6:59 PM
Apparently being pent up in an ark so long with all those pesky, dirty animals really made for a lasting disdain toward them. Others allow politics to fall aside when talking about their pets. Hmmmm. WWTS? (what would tammy say)
On to other serious things… the weather is apparently not going to give you flatlanders any slack. My prayers are with you funnel dodgers. Build underground!
These climate events will only increase in frequency and force.
Quit building on sand! Civilizations rise and fall.
Quit fracking! 😦 Quit tearing up the planet!
Stupid humans. It’s like ants in a maze. 🙄
Same ole, same ole. Nothing new under the sun. 😎
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By: poolman on May 26, 2011
at 6:53 PM
Here you go, Jean:
http://blog.cagle.com/2011/05/gop-gambit-shoving-economy-toward-an-abyss/
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By: delurkergurl on May 26, 2011
at 5:55 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Here I am again with a plea for help in tracking down Gene Lyon’s newest column, “GOP gambit shoving economy toward an abyss”. Lyons takes on Paul Ryan’s idiotic budget proposal, with some of the regressives falling into lockstep behind him, without a clue of the consequences. As usual, Lyons is a talented, professional succinct writer with researched figures to back up his assertions. If you could, would you please put up a link to it. Thanks.
Along with a number of other regressives we all know who are underfoot, Ryan reminds me of this quote:
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity (inadequacy?) of deeply superficial people.”
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 26, 2011
at 5:47 PM
SloopJohnB, Noah doesn’t have narcissitic personality disorder any more than President Obama has. Some of his critics have made the same baseless charge . A psychologist would have to actually interview a person to make such a judgment.
I do like the your namesake song.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 3:44 PM
Cynthia, I love the story. Your description almost put me there with you.
My mother’s family cat was run over by a car when she was a girl. The cat probably lived because the Model A car ran over its head in the mud and pushed the cat down instead of squashing it. The cat fled under the house and everyone expected it would die. My grandfather guessed he’d have to dig under the house to retrieve the body. My mother looked under the house and saw a still cat with its head stuck in the dirt.
The cat emerged about a week later. Its head was misshapen, but otherwise, reasonably healthy.
We also had some experiences with rescued birds.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 3:37 PM
noah = narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/
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By: SloopJohnB on May 26, 2011
at 2:49 PM
Pfessor, just because you get satisfaction in manipulating people and being a jerk doesn’t mean that everyone is required to play along. Grow up.
#1 I have found few people kinder and more tolerant to diverse ideas than Pffessor.
#2 Somewhat pot, kettle, black calling someone else a jerk while being a complete bitch. Maybe retract the claws and stop going after people personally, unless your goal is to help prove me right about this being the party of hate to alaskapi, in which case, thanks, job well done.
Joe, contribute dude. I think I may have hit the nail on the head with you being employed by a political organization. You post the same stuff over and over, make the same comments, ask people to respond but then you go back to posting with no substantive retort.
Hope life gets better for you Craig, sounds like you have had a full plate for a very long while.
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By: Noah on May 26, 2011
at 2:25 PM
James, I guess we are into cat stories. This is the cat I mentioned putting down.
I go off to work one morning. On my way down the hill I see a cat in the road which I identify by the markings. Before I could turn around several more cars ran over her. My son says no one should have to get their own animal off the road. He is scrapping her off the road before this huge dump truck reaches them. He puts her in a box and tells me I don’t want to look in the box.
Later that day he puts her in the blanket and I bury her in our “cemetery”. Three days of mourning go by. This night there is a huge spooky full moon. I go out to feed and get my duck shoes by the pool. Now in the spring all the toads or frogs lay their eggs in the pool cover. I don’t realize there is water in the shoe and in stocking feet in the dark I put my foot in the shoe and it goes swoosh. All I can think is there was a toad in my shoe and I just squashed it. You know how you tingle when you scare yourself. In the middle of this I hear a meow from the shadows of the house…. with the big spooky moon. We moms know our babies cry even if we can’t see them. I move closer and there is a cat. I buried the cat I know she is dead! I reach for her wondering if my hands will go through her like she was a ghost or that I had buried her alive and she had dug herself out and was covered in dirt. But no, there was my cat….. not a ghost and not covered with dirt
Later I learned I had actually buried my neighbor’s cat! It was such a strange feeling to believe she was dead only to have her be alive. I always felt so lucky she lived for another 16/17 years. There was a house just down the street under construction and I suspect she got locked in for several days. I have no other idea; she never stayed away like that before.
I had sent my son an email telling him she had died. He calls asking if I was sure she was dead. I asked why I would lie about it. Well, you told me once before she was dead; I just wanted to know if I should believe you this time.
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 26, 2011
at 1:07 PM
PFessor, from my observation of cats, they are not domesticated. They are wild animals who have learned the benefits of human contact.
We don’t let cats in the house either, though they stay on our enclosed porch, the garage or the little room near our patio.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 11:17 AM
Thanks PFessor. I am a Kingston Trio fan. I had forgotten that song until I just heard it. I did not know about the Brown Mountain lights. I should do some more research.
My grandparents lived near Pittsboro, North Carolina for ten years. My father and two aunts were born there before they moved to Iowa. My grandmother hated the runny southern butter, so she made her own and cut it into squares which she sold. Business was good.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 11:05 AM
James re: cats
When I was in high school we had a big white and black tomcat with an extra toe on each foreleg. (supposed to be good luck, I’m told) He was an outdoor and barn cat and pretty independent.
One winter’s day we had a 30″ snow dump and the cat was missing. For a month we looked for him to no avail. One day when the snow had dropped enough my father walked up the hollow about a mile to get a little respite from cabin fever and decided to look in an old abandoned house.
There sat the cat, fat and sassy. He had been out hunting far from home and had taken refuge in the abandoned house during the storm. He had been snowbound for over a month, eating mice and drinking from the stream that passed nearby. Didn’t inconvenience him at all.
I don’t allow cats in my house now because of their proclivity to walk the kitchen counters at night with the same paws they use to scratch in the litter box, but I still admire them.
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By: PFesser on May 26, 2011
at 11:04 AM
Cynthia, here is another story for you.
I cared for two orphaned kittens and put them on a pillow with blankets in a little room near our patio. One died, but the other bonded with me as if I was his mother. He followed me like a dog, and the family named him Junior, because he was “like a son” to me.
When, he got older, an invading tom cat made Junior’s life miserable. We got up several times in the night to rescue our poor cat. We took the tom cat to a neighbor’s home five miles away. They kept him in their basement rec room until he got used to the new house. The cat broke out and was back at our home within two weeks. I dumped the cat at another neighbor’s home seven miles away, and within five days the cat was back.
I decided to teach Junior to fight. I grabbed the panicked Junior and thrust him into the other cat’s face. Even though I wore gloves, my hands were scratched and bitten. Eventually, Junior began to fight back when I held him and pushed him into the other cat’s face. Junior fought on his own within a week or two, and though he was smaller, he was more determined than our interloper.
Junior became king of the farm.
He followed us across the fields when our happy little family spent our days hoeing soy beans.
Junior disappeared one summer, and we couldn’t find him anywhere. After a couple of days, my mother remembered seeing a cat with only three legs. I looked in the room near our patio, just in case. There was Junior. A coyote had taken a hind leg, and left some other nasty bites. Somehow, Junior fought off the coyote and walked back to our farmstead. Then, he took refuge in the one place he had felt safe when he was a kitten.
Our family held a funeral for Junior, and we all gave our eulogies after we buried him with a brick to mark his grave.
Peace to you also
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 10:50 AM
James – do you know about the Brown Mountain lights in NC? A folk group in the ‘fifties or ‘sixties did a song about it. ……let me see here…..
Ah, here we go. The Kingston Trio
and a little wiki about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Mountain_Lights
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By: PFesser on May 26, 2011
at 10:44 AM
delurker, it would be a lot more fun turning your water on if it weren’t so easy.
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By: PFesser on May 26, 2011
at 10:38 AM
Jean, December 21, 2012 is the date.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 26, 2011
at 10:22 AM
Pfessor I agree, and thanks for the complement.
Juneau Joe, I am not defending the Ryan plan except in the sense that it is the opening volley in our financial debate. Our long-term future is bleak without a change, and so far, the Ryan plan is all we have. We need to correct its short comings or write a viable alternative. Too many politicians care more for short term electoral gain than our future, so I don’t expect much.
Thanks Cynthia. I always thought I was a little crazy when I tried to save the kitten, but maybe not if you went through something similar. Your story really got to me.
Here’s how insane I am. My father was in terrible shape, but he wanted to live long enough to see our son turn sixteen and get his drivers license. He saw our daughter turn 14 and two hours after midnight beyond our son’s birthday, my dad died. My father also wanted to survive for our harvest, because it was what he did. He was still combining corn at age 91, and he unloaded grain when he was 93. He also felt guilty because his condition was so bad, I farmed at night and on weekends when my wife and kids were home from school.
On a darkening evening in late September, I was attaching the bean head to our combine. One has to drive at a nearly perfect angle and height for the machines to attach properly.
Suddenly, a man stepped from the brush and motioned for me to turn this way or that to make the bean head and combine meet properly. “Odd”, I thought “He is waving his arms around like Dad did.” I assumed the man was a neighbor I had asked to haul grain for me.
The grain head and combine clicked together, and I climbed down for a visit. However, I was alone. I wished I had seen a ghost.
Several years later, I was combining at home on a clear chilly night before midnight. A south- bound light bobbed along the lane and it stopped at the end of the field ahead of me. I assumed my wife had brought me a sandwich, but when I reached the lane, no one was there.
My wife didn’t believe me, but the next year, she rode in the combine with me and saw the light too.
Another year passed, and we were riding together in the same field. The light appeared again and it remained at the end of the field. Our daughter had made several sandwiches for us and waited for us at the edge of the field . Then, we told her about the second light which had followed about 100 feet behind her. Our daughter freaked out. I don’t know what caused those lights, but I miss them.
You wrote “I knew my dad loved me, and would be there for me but he never really showed it.” That really got to me. My wife tried for most of her life to please her father and make him proud, but he never gave a word of praise except for good natured put downs. My wife thought she needed to try even harder. She later learned her father bragged about her achievements and told his business associates and neighbors how proud he was of her.
We disagree on some political subjects, but judging from how you operate on this message board, how could your father not be proud of you? He surely bragged to his friends about what a wonderful daughter you were.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 10:20 AM
Though no Vet for what it is worth Craig, and I almost volunteered this last night before you told me that, sounds like your little pal is suffering from ataxia. If so, and I volunteer this with hesitation because your Vet is eminently more qualified than I am to make a prognosis, I had great luck with frequent doses of prednisone tablets for my old labs, who suffered from much the same syndrome(s) your dog is suffering. My male lab keep having his paws knuckle and would fall.
Though you’re only treating the symptoms, it was almost miraculous the results for my labs within days. And the tablets are reasonably cheap – especially for a small dog. There are a couple of risks – prednisone is tough on the kidneys and liver. But if your Vet hasn’t mentioned this, you might ask him/her what they think.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 26, 2011
at 10:07 AM
Pfessor, just because you get satisfaction in manipulating people and being a jerk doesn’t mean that everyone is required to play along. Grow up.
Setting up a place to talk without having to talk around people who are intentionally irritating and rude isn’t ‘running away’. Choosing to participate in both places isn’t ‘running back’. Setting up a private place to have personal conversations without broadcasting it to the whole web isn’t ‘hiding’, it’s smart. It is no different than making use of privacy controls on facebook. I have no interest in having page rankings. I don’t even bother to blog and don’t pretend to be a blogger. It is what it is – a comment spot without troll droppings. It’s also more polite than hijacking someone else’s blog. You act as if you are jealous of people who form real relationships. Get over it.
————
Cynthia, your last line reminds me of a Jimmy Buffet song. 😀
Craig, I’m sorry about your dog. Thanks for the chuckle over the broken wing / running in circles comment.
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By: delurkergurl on May 26, 2011
at 9:31 AM
James – I had a similar experience. At the time, up to this point the only “personal” deaths I’d had to deal with was of an animal. It seemed when I lost one another would come from no where to take its place. This day I was busy getting ready for a local house move and my dad was in the hospital for routine surgery. As I approached a stop light and my hardware store stop two kittens tumbled out from under the car in front of me. One went into the bushes at the hardware store the other ran across the street behind a building. It took me a minute to process this and what to do. The thought came that if I got the cat it would mean some thing was going to happen to my dad. I decided if I had that kind of power my life would certainly be different. So I found the cat and brought it home. Unfortunately my dad didn’t really come through the surgery; I learned later that day he was brain dead.
This cat was a strange cat he did not like to be held or petted and I don’t think he ever purred. My dad had deep auburn hair and a full, thick head of hair and at 70 had only a few white hairs around the temples. This cat was white and beautiful deep red spots and long haired lots of hair. Big beautiful cat but not much of a personality, Sir Butterscotch Rothschild the kids named him (next animal was called Tequila!). He was like my dad in this way, I knew my dad loved me and he would be there for me but he could never really show it.
Years later I had to put my dog down; the horse vet came to the house. It was a difficult time and I was feeling very alone. The dog was on the back lawn and I needed to get him down to the grave. I don’t think I wanted touch him I would have to admit he was dead. The cat came and sat about five feet from the dog until I could move him and followed me down to the grave and stayed while I buried the dog. He followed me back to the house and one of the few times climbed in my lap and stayed while I had my rant with the powers to be about how unfair it was to have to make the decision to kill a friend.
It doesn’t hurt to be a bit crazy; it keeps you from going insane.
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 26, 2011
at 9:16 AM
JUST ANNOUNCED!
(snip)
MADISON, Wis. — A Wisconsin judge has struck down a law taking away nearly all collective bargaining rights from most state workers.
Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi ruled Thursday that Republican legislators violated Wisconsin’s open meetings law during the run up to passage. She says that renders the law void….
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/26/wisconsin-union-law-law-s_n_867437.html
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By: Elsie on May 26, 2011
at 9:12 AM
Why Ryan’s voucher system will NOT WORK for those who are on Medicare. This is a great explanation and comparison of what the program is now compared to what Ryan proposes. Tax hikes need to be part of the new budget folks!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 26, 2011
at 9:01 AM
NOP…Cute ,..”left wing broke” maybe so. LEAVING ME FLYING IN right CIRCLES.
Wayne Perram,
We’ve had Yorkies since we were married “75” ..really since 76.
Have had 6 females, Misty,Dew Drop,Windy,Stormy,Breezy and Sunny.
..and seven males..Sarge,Sailor,Matey,Cappy,Gunney,Chang and Louie.
Have only dropped one off to be euthanized without staying and ..Yes I did feel remorse.
Three or four I have held till their last breaths in our bed. Gunny my first and best trained “street” dog..I knew he was passing from CHF. Told him good night and he laid at my thigh that night and I turned out lights..sure enough he passed around 5am. I have held them at the Vets and its tough..and teers flow.
They are only animals but they have been our best friends when it seemed we had none…human or otherwise.
This am initial latest test results say the dog is going down because of a tick disease he had picked up two years ago and somehow it has recurred with debilitating neurological consequences. Many $$ spent and yet my wife is holding on. She was up with him hourly last night and yet she waits for further test results. She just left for chemo an hour ago…and I cannot just say Valerie we have to do this. Its like shes fighting his and her battle at same time.
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By: Craig on May 26, 2011
at 8:46 AM
James –
I think Obama’s ideas for universal coverage are good ones and long past due, but the law that was actually passed is worse – far worse – than none. And having said that, right now we just can’t afford to do it, and I want to make it clear that I blame GWB’s irresponsibility for most of the lack of money, not Obama.
re: snarky comments. It’s so easy to manipulate someone when you know their psyche. When a few ran away from M&H, it was vanishingly easy to make them come back to resume posting. And of course those who never respond to a particular poster make themselves big fat targets since they can never defend themselves, so that’s fun to watch, too. Blogs with restricted areas never become widely read because Google can’t access those areas and they never get ranked, while M&H’s popularity grows. No, whoever is actually running M&H is very, very smart and realizes that, on the Internet, everything is wide open; you can’t suppress ideas you don’t like and the only choice is to be open and transparent.
M&H is fun now. Most of the bigots are gone or at least pull in their horns. The old guard remaining has become more thoughtful and are a real pleasure to exchange ideas with. Not a bad blog anymore. Not at all.
And it’s a good place to learn about the weather, from a real expert!
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By: PFesser on May 26, 2011
at 8:38 AM
According to the Washington Examiner web site, Beltway Confidential, The Office of the Actuary’s April 22, 2010 memorandum estimated that by 2019, the law’s spending reductions will “negative facility margins” for about 15% of hospitals and home health agencies. The estimated percentage will reach about 25% in 2030 and 40% in 2050.
Dr. Joseph Newhouse wrote in Health Affairs that while the Affordable Care Act cuts Medicare spending, the number of people over age 65 grows at historic rates. A divergence between what providers are paid for treating commercially insured relative to what they are paid for Medicare beneficiaries “would jeopardize Medicare beneficiaries access to mainstream medical care.”
“Seniors currently expect that Medicare coverage will provide them with the same access and quality of health care it always has. That is just not true. The Democrats Medicare plan contains drastic cuts to doctor payments that will make it next to impossible for Medicare beneficiaries to actually obtain health care.” coverage.”
The Ryan plan was written to save Social Security, not to kill it, for the generation already benefiting from government aid. We need a workable alternative or discussions on how to change his plan. So far, we have only the Ryan plan. Our leaders are ill serving us once again.
I like Ragi’s comments.
Jean wrote it must be dispiriting that so many scroll past some of our posts. To the contrary. I get to insert snarky little digs like the Emily Letilla reference and they never notice.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 8:24 AM
Thanks, PFessor. Just be very care full. Some forecasters started the drought for us last year, and we were very wet. ISU climatologist Elwyn Taylor thinks the Iowa corn crop will be safe, but bean yields may be down. You can google him and learn some of his latest guesses.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 7:51 AM
According to the Medicare Actuary,
“without major changes in health are delivery sytemns, the prices paid by Medicare for health services are very likely to fall increasingly short of the cost of providing these services.”
Medicare prices will devolve to less than half of their level under the pre-Obamacare law. Prices would be considerably below the current relative level of Medicaid prices “Medicare prices would be considerably below the current relative level of Medicaid prices, which have already led to access problems for Medicaid enrollees, and far below the levels paid by private health insurance. “
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 7:46 AM
James –
Great info.
Gotta get some soybean futures.
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By: PFesser on May 26, 2011
at 7:38 AM
In case there is still any doubt, the tornado outbreaks have little or nothing to do with climate change. La Nina and blocking in the Atlantic are largely to blame. A local meteorolgist used 1973-4 as an analogue to predict last winter.
The pattern is continuing this spring. In 1974, severe weather was front loaded into April, May and early June. Then, a Bermuda high slowly spread north and west
with a serious drought. Our rain shut off during the third week of June, and high temperatures reached 108. Some of our replanted soy beans didn’t sprout until August.
If the pattern repeats, the commodity markets will go crazy with some of the highest grain prices in history.
One midwest drought cycle brings dry weather every 18 to 23 years. Tree rings show it has happened for at least 500 years. We are overdue for a drought. Tree rings show the last long interval between droughts was 300 years ago. Next year and the next may be very interesting, but it will be part of a natural cycle, not climate change.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 7:30 AM
Craig I hope you all get through the latest rough spot. I can understand how your dog could become symbolic of Val’s condition. When my 95 year old father was in the hospital, I tried to save a small kitten. The children and I worked for about five hours and at one point gave it artificial resperation to revive it.
In a strange way, the kitten had become my father. If I could save the kitten, we could save my father.
We have nine farm cats who’s job is to kill rodents. We have a formerly stray rottweiler cross dog who is my cross country skiing partner. So far, she has killed at least 25 raccoons. When she wants she sleeps behind our couch.
I had no idea one could buy diapers for pets.
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By: James on May 26, 2011
at 7:19 AM
Craig –
“But I did raise a good kid and got him married off and out of house on his own. Just wish his wife knew how to cook. He does too.”
Might be like the Bowman boy I grew up with. He allowed as how he wasn’t about to learn how to milk the cow; if he did, he’d have to.
That’s another casualty of radical feminism, IMHO. My ex was the same way; she went out of her way to make sure she wasn’t under any oppression. Of course she didn’t see ME as being under any oppression as I worked sixteen-hour days, picked up the kids toys and did the dishes at midnight after a long day’s work at the hospital – and paid for maid service and child care, so she wouldn’t get too tired watching two kids (with no other duties). As you might guess, that was my FIRST wife – I didn’t realize how bad it was until I remarried – this time someone with a sense of duty and responsibility. Gotta love those Lutherans…LOL
My advice is that those sorts of deficiencies are ominous warning signs; he needs to keep one eye on the door and have NO children until she figures out if she wants the responsibilities of being married.
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By: PFesser on May 26, 2011
at 5:59 AM
Private Prisons cost more money than State Prisons or detentions. Then there is the corruption. In this clip 2 judges take a cut for putting kids behind bars and make 2 million dollars. Prisons for profit cost more money and cause corruption as well.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 26, 2011
at 4:14 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
My, my, what a cherry, upbeat bunch of commentators here lately. Since the Christian rapture fizzled, maybe we can fall back on the Mayan calendar thingy about the end of the world.
Nine years ago our whole family, sons, wives and grandkids, all ten of us took a Caribbean cruise down as far as Central America. We had a blast! One of our ports-of-call was Cozumel Island, Mexico. There we toured a very large complex of Mayan ruins for an entire day. It was fascinating.
Being a conscientious tourist cognizant of contributing to the local economy, I picked up an attractive souvenir clay plaque, rectangular about 7” X 12” and an inch and a half thick. It is quite heavy. It is sandy colored and depicts three Mayan figures and designs. Possibly it is a replica of some kind, but I’m no much up on the Mayan civilization, culture and history. The plaque has two wire hooks embedded in the clay to hang it from. I hung it on the wall over the door into one of the bedrooms, resting the bottom of it on the doorframe woodwork.
The other day, I noticed it was teetering, hanging by only one hook. I was afraid it would fall and shatter into a jillion pieces all over the floor and make a big mess. You don’t suppose this is a sign, do you? A foreboding omen? Wadda ya think? Does anybody remember the date the Mayan calendar is supposed to expire? Sometime this year? Please, please, somebody, answer my questions!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 26, 2011
at 1:57 AM
Craig,
I’m an animal lover, especially dogs, and two years ago was forced to put down my two beloved black labs within five months of each other. Brother and sister and litter mates from day 1. Both were 13+ years old. Let me tell you something that might help you, because until that time, I had never had to euthanize any pet. In case you’re like me and have never been force into it….
Euthanasia is a painless death. Most animals are dead before the syringe empties. There is no pain, because the death is induced by a massive dose of anesthesia – your dog will appear to go to sleep. And if you are forced into this choice, and I certainly hope not, let me recommend to stay with your pet. Let your “pup’s” last memory be looking at your loving face. You won’t regret it and it won’t leave you with bad memories. I promise.
I dreaded the day it had to happen. But once I experienced the inevitable loss, after a few days, I realized it was the last loving thing I did for my most precious pals.
I had a dog killed last year right in front of my eyes (run over) and that was heartbreaking. But I have never regretted the actions I took with my Labs.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 25, 2011
at 10:24 PM
Yeah Goonue, that’s a great idea – raise taxes on the corporations, who already pay the highest industrialized rates in the known universe. And see what happens to your unemployment rate, manufacturing, small business, and deficit. I dare you. I’ll short your precious tax rate and capitalize even more.
Did I mention Goonue, that corporations simply pass higher taxes on to consumers, or haven’t you figured that much out? To paraphrase Patton, you buffoons from the left no more understand economics than you do fornication (or the weather for that matter).
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By: Wayne Perram on May 25, 2011
at 10:15 PM
Craig, maybe you only think you are right wing, because you broke your left wing.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 10:13 PM
Craig,
I am sorry to hear about your dog. Hopefully the cause can be found and a successful treatment.
But if you find this not to be true or when a time may come ……may I offer a suggestion?
Having had to make the decision to put down an animal a number of times with my dogs, cats and horse I understand how difficult it can be. I recently had to put my 19 year old cat down. There are vets that will make house calls and the way euthanasia is done is a huge improvement from my past experiences. I found this to make a difficult experience a bit easier:
Once you realize there is nothing more you can do to help your animal or as in my case there is no cure for old age. Pick a date in the future, next week, two weeks whatever time you feel you have to work with. I made the date, dug the grave, and bought the blanket to wrap her in. The decision was made, everything was done. Now I could “enjoy” the time I had left with her. The vet came to the house; the cat was in the spare bedroom. We sat on the floor petting her and the vet quietly gave her a shot which put her asleep. I petted her until she was fully asleep. Then the vet gave her the injection in the vein that ended her life. It was calm, gentle and peaceful.
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 25, 2011
at 10:03 PM
I got married the second time, even though I told my husband I didn’t cook, he still wanted to marry me, so mostly he cooks for me. After the wedding, I let him in on my little secret, I’m a rather good cook. I suspect, either your daughter-in-law or your son or both will learn to cook; either that or they will eat out a lot.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 9:42 PM
Here are Palin and Breitbart talking on TEAPARTY tax day!!! Good. I like it better than the recent TEAPARTY DAY where 2 people showed up for Gov Haley.
Whiney Wayne would even appreciate thiis!!! Check it out!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 9:26 PM
NOP..
I have a herd..That’s 5.
One four yo.who is sick
One three YO who is a lil porker.
And three brothers that are two and give me fits..but I love them all..
And it makes for an interesting bed time especially when its cold since they all sleep with us.
I know….. crazy republican right wing nut case.
But I did raise a good kid and got him married off and out of house on his own. Just wish his wife knew how to cook. He does too.
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By: Craig on May 25, 2011
at 9:26 PM
I am so glad that Harry Reid took this vote today, the Republicans that voted to destroy Medicare will have no wiggle room in 2012. Senate Republicans stand by plan to overhaul Medicare – The …
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-republicans-st…
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 9:19 PM
Wayne: You really are a sad person. Just saying.
Deficit: Two wars on credit cards, TAX CUTS for the top 2 percent which has been about a Trillion so far, then you have a Trillion for Post 9-11 security, and to top it off Bush Gave us a Prescription Drug program which was not paid for – ALL ON CREDIT CARDS = DEFICIT caused by GW Bush.
By the Way: We had a BIG DEFICIT after WWII: How did we pay it off? Increased Taxes on the wealthiest and corporations!!!! Imagine that!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 9:10 PM
Funny how one answers the other’s questions, huh?
Craig, do you have just the one dog? The little Yorkie? I do hope the dog recovers, it is strange what can mean the most to a person during tough times, for my daughter-in-law it was a small turtle when her husband, my stepson, was deployed.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 8:44 PM
Here’s what I think of the Ryan plan Goonue, though you aren’t fractionally capable of understanding any of it.
This country is broke – busted – kaput thanks to the Idiot-in-Chief O’Bamahammed, the first Irish-Kenyan-American President. What a farce…
How’d you like President Clark Griswold’s European Vacation this week Goonue? One monumental, historical gaffe after another. The poseur doesn’t even know what year it is. And what do I hear from you Sarah Palin fanatical critics and possessed groupies? {crickets}. Duplicitous Hypocrites…that ought to be the name for some of this blog.
And due to O’Zero’s abject monetary, fiscal, and “investment” failures, you rubes time is about up. And soon, you’re going to get to learn the hard way benevolent Barack can’t find anymore money to steal to buy your vote and you can’t even fill up your tank. Your medical care will consist of a used Bandaid and swift kick to the curb as more doctors say to hell with Medicare. Go see the witch doctor Obama. Already happening. You’ll cuss your false messiah one day. I guarantee it. Poetic justice.
So in essence, by you not supporting Ryan’s plan which doesn’t go nearly far enough, you’re cutting off your own nose to spite your face by not addressing the assured national bankruptcy and Medicare’s imminent collapse. That is, unless you plan on offing yourself soon (rubs hands together). And all the while, I’m going to be shorting mooching rubes like you, making even more money on the coming collapse of the dollar.
P.S. – you think this weather is due to Climate Change? 😆 😆 ** GUFFAW ** Damn, you’re even thicker than I thought. Google La Nina Goonue and come up for a breath from the colon of inanity. This weather pattern was predicted in February dummy.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 25, 2011
at 8:36 PM
The Ryan Budget was shot down in the Senate! 4 Republicans joined in voting NO on it.
http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=FA11E0A2-1574-457F-B8A4-B6D1688FA35D
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 7:38 PM
I like this poll:
“Michele Bachmann” + “serious presidential contender” = 4,200 hits
“Michele Bachmann” + “Batshit insane” = 4,970 hits
Noah: Who should be the Republican candidate for President?
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 7:33 PM
I do not know much of the details of the Ryan Budget. What I do know of, I would say what I dislike is exceeded by what I like. I am for repealing Obama care. As I have said all along, it isn’t that health care reform isn’t needed, I just think it is unwise to introduce the largest spending bill in history when we are at our economic weakest.
As a whole there is enough in the bill that troubles me that I would vote it down as it is currently written. But as stated there are aspects of the bill I fully support.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 7:25 PM
When it comes to climate change I tend to err on the side of caution. If we keep a cleaner environment and we are wrong, we just have a cleaner place to be. If we are wrong and do nothing it is the extinction of the human race. I do believe that some of the changes are 100, 500, 1000, 10000 year cycle type stuff that are beyond our control. I do not agree with the view that many Republicans take that we are not able to effect any real change on our environment. Launch every nuke in our arsenal and tell me we haven’t made some climate changes.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 7:18 PM
You can always tell who Tex/Wayne is because if he makes a typo he always corrects himself with a blushing “icon”
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By: Raji on May 25, 2011
at 7:09 PM
Whiney Wayne and Noah:
Could it be that the big tornados and extreme storms causing the flooding of the Mississippi River have anything to do with Climate Change?
(If you say – NO, What if you are wrong?)
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 7:02 PM
NOP, I have to agree with Tex’s comments regarding GM over at Rutherford’s. The only winners in that scenario was the government and the corporate owners. GM has been totally restructured, divisions eliminated, pensions devalued,stock holders left holding the bag. Yes, we still do have a company named GM but a shadow of it’s former self. Without doing the research I would imagine GM stock hit junk status. GM should have done this restructuring a long time ago.
The same situation exists for the so called bail out of the banks. The losers were the public (foreclosures anyone?) Banks today are not the institutions of our grandparents. The FDIC assured the public that they would raise the limit to $250K for insured funds if a bank failed. If any person has $250K in a bank account they are stupid as interest rates are below one percent in savings and maybe a bit above for CD’s. Banks have moved their investment divisions into brokerages which are not protected by the FDIC. A bank could fail today and not really hurt anyone but the “Bank” and if anyone has stock in a bank they are as stupid as the person keeping $250K in a CD!
If Noah is Tex then I must commend Noah for his restraint in his use of words 😆
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By: Raji on May 25, 2011
at 7:00 PM
Whiney Wayne: What is your take on the Ryan Budget? Tell me how brilliant it is please!!! Use small words for me though – remember, I am limited.
What are your thoughts on the race in NY? I think it was won by a Democrat in a district that votes strictly Republican. I would appreciate your wisdom?
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 6:58 PM
Good Gawd Puppet, you are inane.
You can’t even read Rutherford’s blog correctly when snitching – the ultimate brick. 😡 Do I have to spell it out for you broads? If your Chatty Cathy group of harpies are going to send somebody to spy while attacking poor Rutherford or making false accusation toward Noah, both whom are infinitely brighter than any of you nags, they need to find somebody with a hint of reading comprehension.
I would do better to debate with a mannequin. Like GoonOlJoe. 🙂
Where’s Donna? I haven’t heard a long-winded story of her brilliance in a long time, and I need a refill of hot air and baloney, along with another massive donation to the DNC in my name.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 25, 2011
at 6:51 PM
Noah: You agree then that Rob Woodall, Republican, is being a hypocrite when does not do what he advocates for others. We are making progress. You have to admit there is a lot of “Do as I say, not as I do.” Rules apply to you little people kind of thinking, don’t you think?
What do you think of the Ryan Budget? Should any Republican running for 2012 live or die by the Ryan plan?
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 6:48 PM
Awwww, Craig, I’m sorry. I was afraid things had to be pretty grim to keep you from your favorite hobby of annoying liberals with Rish-isms. (grin) Sure hope things look up soon for you and Val. Very sorry about the dog, too. I suspect losing the dog would be a hard thing for Val right now, though of course I don’t know her. I still cry about the cat I lost while pregnant – can’t imagine losing a fur baby while battling cancer. How’s the elbow?
It’s always darkest before the dawn. Keep the faith and this will all be history before you know it.
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By: delurkergurl on May 25, 2011
at 6:32 PM
Also takes notes as NOP ducks why she chose to attack me personally that lori and Joe supported those personal attacks. Just keeping moral score.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 6:24 PM
JuneauJoe, I agree. Business are not nor should not be required to provide health care.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 6:20 PM
Hey hey my friends this has been some kind of week eh?
First a win in NY 26 then Hines Ward wins the mirror ball trophy and now the Senate defeats the brilliant Ryan plan (not that that was a surprise). Our week can’t get much better can it!
Craig sorry about your pup… Keep your chin up buddy brighter days are ahead.
NOP I think your pretty great too. 😉 xo
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By: lori on May 25, 2011
at 6:09 PM
Noah: Blatant hypocrite! The idiot Rep Rob Woodall tells people that he feels businesses do not need to provide health care. So a person asks him to give his up so he can go in the open market to get health care. He finally says NO!! Just the old, “Do as I say, not as I do” kind of garbage. Typical Republican hypocrite!
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/republican-rep-rob-woodall-keeping-his-gover
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 6:00 PM
Noah: This is great! Anthony Weiner talking about the Ryan plan.
NoOnes Puppet – Think you are great!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 5:50 PM
Let the record show No One’s Puppet could not stand by her own words. Point proven conclusively. Subject close.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 5:29 PM
How the vote went this afternoon.
After Republican election defeat, Senate rejects GOP budget …
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/on-heels-…
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 4:32 PM
Craig, this might contain some information you could use, I am now diapering my daughter’s incontinent cat: Homemade Pet Diapers for Cats and Small Dogs: Save Money and…
http://www.suite101.com/content/homemade-pet-diapers-for-cat…
The latest scuttlebutt I’ve read about Palin is 1. she bought a house in Arizona, because she is still trying to control Bristol’s life and 2. I guess a movie about her, as a victim-heroine, premiers in Iowa in June. If she doesn’t enter the Republican primary at that time, I’d like a frozen Margarita.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 4:21 PM
NOP ..thanks for asking…and PFessor
Yep been busy..
Wife and I saw son and DIL this last wkend in San Antonio.
Dog we took to Dallas for rear leg paralysis two weeks ago ..has now had this issue spread to his front paws and Vets are doing more tests..WHY..I don’t know..the dog is suffering..They think it may be cancer. If so why do we care I think the best for the poor boy is to put him down even if he is 4 years old and I’ve spent $2300 as well as having to pick him up and put him down every where he wants to go since he’s not mobile.
a 5K deer damaged Tahoe on road to Dallas Vet specialists.
So yep been trying to paddle as fast as I can to keep from going over spillway.
Val is doing fine with her chemo and has finished at least 4 cycles. She goes to Dallas to see Researcher next Tuesday… but this possible doggie diagnosis of cancer did put her into a real tailspin as “how bad can it get”
Not real happy here in mudville.
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By: Craig on May 25, 2011
at 4:10 PM
A little behind the scene info regarding Blind Allegiance and $arah Palin. I wonder if she left Alaska to get out of the line of fire from that “Fan” which is about to be turned on.
~Sarah Palin and Frank Bailey By Jeanne Devon
I had the opportunity to sit down and talk with ex-Palin aide Frank Bailey about his memoir Blind Allegiance (co-authored by myself and Ken Morris).
More interesting pieces about Palin or Bailey
http://www.themudflats.net/
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 25, 2011
at 3:49 PM
The funeral was in heavy rain and a 54 degree temperature with wind gusts near 45 MPH. We fired our weapons in the rain and a soldier gave Lolly the flag.
She had held up pretty well until then. As my wife said, Lolly clutched the flag and held it next to her as if it was all of Frank that remained. Then, my wife began to cry. Lolly didn’t stay for the dinner, because her grief overpowered her.
Frank and his band of Army Rangers called themselves the “lucky seven” because they were the only members of their group who survived climbing the cliffs of Omaha Beach. He was 87 and the couple had seven children, one who died of cancer several years ago.
Frank’s nightmares were so bad, Lolly and he sometimes slept in separate rooms for fear he would strangle her. But he was a jovial bear of a man who everyone liked. Both were a big help to us over the years.
“Your presence still lingers here
and it won’t leave me alone
These wounds don’t seem to heal
This pain is just too real
There’s just too much
time can not erase
You’d scream
I’d fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand
through all of these years
And you still have
all of me.”
It is the future every one of us faces.
I don’t exchange e mails with Noah, but review their writing styles. He and Tex are two different people.
No offense, but this all seems shallow today.
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By: James on May 25, 2011
at 3:01 PM
Hannity tries to nail Frank Bailey, Sarah GodForbid Palin’s main go-to guy.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/transcript/palin-whistleblower-defends-tell-all-book
If you never read another book on politics, get Bailey’s book. I have read it already and it will make you want to vomit. This guy is basically confessing to multiple felonies, but he is willing to take the consequences because he feels this story MUST be told.
I have some information that SP has holed up in her new house in AZ and is basically coming apart. If she takes the perp-walk I will throw a party. Get Bailey’s book. Highly recommended.
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By: PFesser on May 25, 2011
at 2:40 PM
Senate to vote on Ryan budget after Dem victory in NY-26 – T…
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/163233-senate-to-vote-on-…
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 2:07 PM
If you are Sally, see The Bin, Delurker will give you a key.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 1:54 PM
Interesting.
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By: Las Vegas Mama on May 25, 2011
at 12:43 PM
Aloha All,
Just wanted to see what avatar I would have and since I have 8 different email addresses, wanted to try out being a bit schizo and see what happens by making up a different persona.
Just a test, No One’s Puppet got me curious,
Sally (or maybe not)
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By: Las Vegas Mama on May 25, 2011
at 12:41 PM
You are probably right.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 12:11 PM
Nada from Craig. I figure his plate is very full.
I had a good-size series of clots in my leg several months ago; that’s what took out Hoss Cartwright and many others. As I sat at home with my leg up, waiting for that big embolus to the lungs, I really considered my priorities. My guess is that Craig and Val are doing the same thing.
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By: PFesser on May 25, 2011
at 12:04 PM
PFesser, Tex was banned from this blog by Mathew, and he did brag it up over at Lawson’s, so I just know what I read. Have you heard anything from Craig? It has been a long time since we heard from him.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 11:51 AM
Be you the REAL NOAH or the FAKE NOAH, you’ve had your fun, but the next election cycle is starting and we have plenty of subjects to discuss here, so it is highly unlikely you are going to be the center of attention here. Sounds like JuneauJoe might still have some interest in you, so….
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 11:44 AM
“Ask Pfeser or James. I have had email correspondence with Pfessor as well. I think this is just the act of a desperate person. ”
Yep. Just as he says.
But, interestingly, Tex has been gone on vacation at Rutherford’s blog for several weeks and hasn’t posted anything until yesterday, I think. I’m a little surprised he would post here in any capacity, since I know how he detests this blog, and not post there. Hmmm….I think NOP that maybe you are letting your desire to “get” Noah cloud your judgement, perhaps…??
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By: PFesser on May 25, 2011
at 11:39 AM
Ask Pfeser or James. I have had email correspondence with Pfessor as well. I think this is just the act of a desperate person. NOP…I called you on your pettiness and like a true bully when confronted you cowered and came up with this rather weak attempt to discredit me personally, once again showing you are to intellectually weak to face me in the world of ideas. Glad people get to see the real you. Tell people why you needed to ask me how I take care of my family, or slither back into the shadows and move on.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 11:16 AM
If people care to, which I doubt they do, they can go back through the comments over at Lawson’s and read Tex’s comment, that he comes over here using the moniker, Noah. Would Tex lie?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 11:05 AM
and Tex is the one non liberal I called out that would go attacking people unprovoked. Again just shows people how, odd, you are thinking I am him.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 11:03 AM
pettiness*
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 11:02 AM
Just goes to show everyone here what kind of person you are NOP. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised you would duck for cover when I called you on your pettyness. Even on the internet a bully is just a bully.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 11:01 AM
No problem Tex, aka Noah, I figured all the while you have been anti-socialism, you were most likely a recipient.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 10:52 AM
Takes note NOP in her usually cowardly fashion did not explain why she needed to know how I supported my family.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 10:45 AM
Raj, I’m going to recall that story all day with a smile.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 10:10 AM
Tex, yes it is true, I have taken part in discussions on the Rutherford Lawson Blog, on that site, Tex bragged that he slips past Mathew’s moderation by using the moniker, Noah.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 10:05 AM
The latest posts remind me of a story about my grandfather who at the time was an aged prominent business man in a small southern town. A Lady of the Streets ran a house of ill repute on the outskirts of the town and serviced many of the prominent male members. The Ladies of the Church (wives) took steps to put her out of business. In retaliation the Lady of the Street posted all the names of her clients in the local newspaper.
My grandfather’s comment after reading the list was “couldn’t she have listed me as an honorary member?”
Peace 😉
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By: Raji on May 25, 2011
at 10:04 AM
I am so proud of our President this morning, if you didn’t catch his speech to both houses of Parliament, try to catch a repeat on CSpan this evening. It will be well worth your time.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 25, 2011
at 9:56 AM
JJoe –
re: Warren’s frightening the ReBiblicans.
It’s not just the ReBiblicans. A lot of people are afraid of her, and damned well should be. The Bernank for one. Geithner for another, and they are Bo’s boys. I became aware of her more than ten years ago when I read the Two Income Trap, a book she did with her daughter.
She is honest and true, IMHO. And the more she scares hell out of those who got us in this mess the more I am sure she is The One.
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By: PFesser on May 25, 2011
at 9:08 AM
President Obama is a Great President, as explained by Frank Schaeffer
http://frank-schaeffer.blogspot.com/2011/04/obama-is-now-and-will-be-great.html
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 9:07 AM
Elizabeth Warren is so great!!!! She actually puts the interest of middle class folk first – such a novel concept. NY-26 – People do not like the Ryan budget! Why are Republicans so afraid of Elizabeth Warren???
http://www.alternet.org/economy/151072/elizabeth_warren_attacked_at_hearing:_why_she_scares_the_hell_out_of_republicans/
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 8:05 AM
You have to starve a parasite, people. It’s the ONLY way. When you feed it, it grows and continues to rob from the host.
delurkergurl I am shocked. It sounds to me by that analogy that you are advocating we stop helping and feeling our poor.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 7:54 AM
re: Vit E
There are four vitamins you can OD on: A, D, E, K – all the fat-soluble vitamins. When I was in residency I did a kidney arteriogram on a lady with renal failure. As soon as I turned on the fluoroscope I saw the reason for her renal disease: her kidneys were so calcified they looked like big stones.
I asked her if she took vitamins. “Why yes, of course! I am very aware of staying healthy and I take megadoses every day.”
“Congratulations. You are going on dialysis. You have poisoned your kidneys with massive doses of Vitamin D.”
Vitamins are just that – substances the body cannot make for itself. Appropriate doses are appropriate. It’s like water – a little is good; a lot will kill you. Regardless of what Mae West said about “Too much of a good thing is wonderful!” it ain’t necessarily so.
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By: PFesser on May 25, 2011
at 7:54 AM
NOP..your obvious trolling aside, I am not sure why you are taking a personal interest in my life, too bad we can’t talk intellectually rather than you going after me personally. That said I have owned my own business for 13 years. That’s right, I am one of those evil business owners that employ other people for my own financial gain. Now why don’t you tell these good folks why you needed to ask that question and what you plan to do with that information.
And to get you up to speed kiddo, they have these new fangled devices that fit into the palm of your hand and act like mini computers. They allow you to get on the internet from almost anywhere.
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By: Noah on May 25, 2011
at 7:50 AM
You have to starve a parasite, people. It’s the ONLY way. When you feed it, it grows and continues to rob from the host.
Joe, I hate hearing about wasteful projects like that, regardless of who supported them. Right now it’s especially sickening that programs like those are being prioritized HIGHER than the education, health, prosperity and future of our population. Food, healthcare, and education are wasteful entitlement programs we can’t afford. Crumbling roads and bridges people could be working on – more collateral damage. After all, they make it so we can’t continue funding massive entitlements for the corporate elite. THOSE are not wasteful. Eliminating education and healthcare jobs and the jobs related to important government programs being scrapped are just collateral damage. Same as are the jobs that are being shipped overseas by greedy corporations who are also collecting massive unfunded tax breaks. But jobs for ticket takers at these bankrupt-before-they-even-open ventures are important so long as the right people are getting their kickbacks.
There’s a trickle down happening alright. Pale yellow.
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By: delurkergurl on May 25, 2011
at 7:31 AM
Here we go – it’s a mote versus a beam in the eye.
For you engineers, it would be an eye-beam.
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By: PFesser on May 25, 2011
at 7:29 AM
alaskapi –
re: being very, very liberal.
I pine for the days when liberals and conservatives could sit and talk and debate until the wee hours, each holding a deep respect for the fundamental decency of the other and realizing that only their methods differed. My friends and I did that in college and I remember them as halcyon days.
I think this lib/cons hatred has really diminished this board, and in particular has caused everyone to harden their positions to the point they cannot see the (what was that biblical thing, camel? Help me here, poolman) in their own eye as they gleefully point out the mote in the other’s.
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By: PFesser on May 25, 2011
at 7:04 AM
4 stupid projects funded by REPUBLICANS while cutting funding to schools and those in poverty.
http://www.alternet.org/story/151043/4_fantastically_stupid_projects_bankrolled_by_republicans_aiming_to_please_their_corporate_masters?akid=7010.294211.nbv7GB&rd=1&t=8
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By: JuneauJoe on May 25, 2011
at 6:44 AM
alaskipi-
The NTSB is authoritative, but I would wonder if he simply flew into terrain in low-visibility conditions. That’s pretty common there I’m told. Nearly all flying in Alaska is under visual flight rules because so many of the smaller airports don’t have instrument landing procedures or even runway lights.
That’s too bad for your (cousin, was it?). The govt will ALWAYS pin it on “pilot error” if they can, so they don’t bear any responsibility. The fact is that everything has risk and accidents occur. The govt needs to say, “accident – cause unknown” and move on… It sounds like the pilot was a really good guy. I feel bad for the passengers, too, but my first reaction is, “What a shame to lose another Beaver.” LOL
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By: PFesser on May 25, 2011
at 6:31 AM
With 48 percent of the vote..
NY – 26 D
One step closer to retaking the house…..
and on we go…
namaste
namaste
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By: lori on May 25, 2011
at 4:35 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Congratulations to Kathy Hochul!!! We the people of our democracy have spoken.
Let’s see, where was I before I was so rudely interrupted with the end of the world, laundry and other vital stuff. Oh yes, Malaysia, Part 2 and palm oil.
BTW, the Prime Minister of Malaysia is the Honorable Dato’ Sri Mohd Najib Tun Bazak. Got that? It was no small task to type that in accurately! I don’t have a clue on how to pronounce it.
I’m sure the following figures can be challenged from various other sources. Still, according to some projections, the world’s population is expected to be around 8 billion by about 2030. That’s a lot of mouths to feed! Together with Indonesia, Malaysia produces 85.3% of the world’s palm oil, an important food source for human consumption. Palm oil and palm kernel oil are used in cooking oil, margarines and such. Palm kernel cake is a significant form of animal feed.
One hectare (3.471 acres) of palm oil can, on average, produce 4.14 tons as compared to 0.40 of soybean, 0.58 of sunflower and 0.75 tons of rapeseed (canola)annually. I have no figures on olive oil. Considering the world’s concerns regarding deforestation and shrinking arable land, this gives us all something to think about.
I don’t even pretend to be a physician, chemist or nutritionist. Like most people, I have always been interested the food I put on the table not only for enjoyment but for the health of my family. The next consideration is of Vitamin E. I think we all know that Vitamin E is an important nutrient and an antioxidant significant in its role in combating cardio-vascular diseases. It provides protection from free radicals. Cutting edge cooperative scientific studies are going on all over the globe. These studies are also showing promise against other degenerative diseases including diabetes, that lead to damage of the central or peripheral nervous systems; some cancers and the seriously dangerous complications during pregnancy to both mother and baby of preenclampsia and enclampsia.
It turns out that Vitamin E consists of 8 molecules: four of “tocopherol” and four of “tocotreinol.” The most effective forms of Vitamin E consist of both which are naturally found in palm oil. Most Vitamin E preparations contain only the “tocopherol”. “Toctreinol” is not found in other edible oils such as olive, soybean and sunflower.
I am certainly not touting that we all rush out to our neighborhood drugstore and stock up on massive doses of OTC Vitamin E. That’s something for medical professionals to recommend. However, it is something to bear in mind and follow in the scientific literature.
Anyway, most of the further information is technically way over my head, but it is fascinating the progress that is quietly being made by dedicated people in universities and labs throughout the world.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 25, 2011
at 1:42 AM
Noah, how are you supporting that baby? You do remember the baby right? I just ask, because you are here during the day and again at night, I can’t imagine an employer putting up with that, not in this economy.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 24, 2011
at 11:09 PM
It seems that it worked, at least once.
—————–
How, by pissing me off?
Great.
Good job.
The same overgeneralizations flow out of HUMAN BEINGS, conservative and liberal and all shades between, all the time and they are flat horsepunky no matter whose mouth they are coming out of.
I’m getting old. I’m tired of this wasting time thingy wrapped up in oneupmanship, phony divisions, and foolish gobbeldygook.
Thank you Helen and Margaret for having us all in.
I’m letting myself out the door for a bit before I do something I can’t take back.
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By: alaskapi on May 24, 2011
at 11:07 PM
NOP sorry I wasn’t clear enough for even you to catch on. The people at the company did the work, not the progressives. They have no room to be taking credit for the effort put forth by our autoworkers.
However- if you recall I stood up for you and James and the PFesser when the shenanigans with phony postings happened.
I do, that is why I did not list you.
That being said , I’m getting cranky about the amorphous definition of liberal left you seem to have and the over generalizations which are flowing from it.
For the most part, away from these boards, I shy away from generalizations as they almost universally make one’s statement automatically false. However, look at the reactions, and the personal attacks made to people like me. 100% unprovoked. 100% of the time they coming at me personally first. Then look to how if it is a non liberal candidate, idea, legislation, or news station, it is automatically viciously attacked without the idea being even considered. We both know this has all happened hundreds of times on this board. Generalizations about anything non Liberal flow like water here. I rather hoped that painting with as wide a brush as possible would highlight that. It seems that it worked, at least once.
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By: Noah on May 24, 2011
at 10:49 PM
Noah-
Let me be blunt.
I am a liberal, I am very, very left.
I am questioning the generalizations you have made about and are still making about the left here on M&H’s since I am part of the left.
I disagree with you on so many issues, levels, and stances it’s hard to imagine I could have a conversation face to face with you without having an aneurysm. Here I can go away and say a bunch of swear words , take a deep breath, and make another comment.
However- if you recall I stood up for you and James and the PFesser when the shenanigans with phony postings happened.
It is a deep and abiding part of my LIBERAL , VERY LIBERAL stance in the world that all people need to be treated with a basic respect and parity- even when I would like to pinch their faces off at times.
That being said , I’m getting cranky about the amorphous definition of liberal left you seem to have and the over generalizations which are flowing from it.
In short- you are starting …
I’m gonna go away and swear awhile…
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By: alaskapi on May 24, 2011
at 10:36 PM
As far as I know..there are no progressives running our auto industry. Not sure why you would take credit for others hard work.
Oh my, it is true what I heard, even people who watch no news are better informed that Fox News viewers. The government bailout saved the American auto industry from certain bankruptcy, just so you know.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 24, 2011
at 10:32 PM
As far as I know..there are no progressives running our auto industry. Not sure why you would take credit for others hard work.
alaskap, end of the day I see the Left on this board treat anyone not of their cloth with contempt and disrespect. In intellectual circles to go after the person and not their ideas is a sign of weakness. I think it is unnecessary to go after people as those I listed do as a matter of habit.
Honolulu Sally
My observations on the Liberal condition are probably generally true but specifically aimed at those who post here and who I listed and their posts back my theory.
Did you read a former post of Helen’s about “We survived Bush. You’ll survive Obama”?
Generally speaking that is true of every past President until now. Regardless of what you think of GW Bush, and I don’t think a great deal of him, take all of his spending and our economy could sustain that indefinably, as it could with previous Presidents. This is not the case with Obama. His spending is universally seen by economists from every walk of life as unsustainable. At his current rate of spending, if no additional spending is proposed from this day forward, by 2016 we will have a $1 trillion interest payment due. No economy can sustain that.
You predetermine too much and are too quick to respond in anger.
My reaction is based on hundreds of posts put forth by this boards Liberal hit team. As I stated, for every non Liberal that posts on this board and launches an unprovoked attack on a Liberal, you have 20 or more Liberals that do the same, and this number is hugely low. I did the “play nice” for months on end and it got me no where. I am not going to apologize for giving as good as I get. I have had a challenge out for anyone to take up. Show me where I attacked someone first, and unprovoked and I will never grace these boards again. I never have, and I never will, it just isn’t in my nature. But when you have a group of people like we have on here who cannot argue me based on the merit of my words but rather attack me personally, at some point I said enough, and returned fire.
If you look at this board, and you see how they talk about the right, and how they treat the right that dare admit their are on the right, then the term, the party of hate is not only fitting, but confirmed by the words posted here hundreds of times over.
As for why I am here. I am no more no less a Philosopher. I have a set of beliefs, I call them a web of beliefs. They are layered and interconnected. I think it should be the duty of every human being to constantly have what they believe in challenged as only good can come from this. If your belief stands the test of scrutiny, then you are more affirmed something you believe in is justified. If your belief is disproved, then you have shed a false belief and someone has done you a great service. I believe a great many evils occur because of false beliefs, so I do what I can to make sure I am on solid ground with that which I hold to be true.
I find little is gained by hanging out with people who are on my side of the political isle, after all what do we hope to accomplish? Agree that we agree? If I am to understand my opponent I need to spend time with my opponent and get to know them and what motivates them to be different than I am. If through my life’s travels I have come to conclusions that I know to be true, and I encounter someone that has come up with different conclusions and is equally assured that they are correct, I want to understand why that is so.
So I come here and attempt to have spirited debate to learn what truly motivates people to think as they do. The problem with that is that people are not always honest. As show on this board people also do not share my love of having arguments(which are not necessarily a negative thing) and rather than engage my ideas, they make personal attacks en mass so I find myself defending myself on multiple fronts. I admit that after nearly a year I have a hair trigger, but for the most part those on the receiving end have earned their place through relentless personal attacks. You will note with Joe I made several attempts to engage him without success, without attacking him or responding to his negative words to me to have a two way dialog on both our points of view before I movied on.
Unfortunately, many on here are not able to have a debate without taking it personally or letting it degenerate into something ugly. A few of those listed on here I have given multiple chances to bury the hatchet as it were only to have it thrown back at me.
Your approach to me is exactly what I look for when I discuss matters with people so I no issues with how you presented yourself.
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By: Noah on May 24, 2011
at 9:57 PM
JuneauJoe,
Another great link – but very disturbing.
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 24, 2011
at 9:13 PM
Right on Delurker and Lori, let’s hear it for America! Yes we can, indeed, progressives have a can do attitude, that is what is going to carry us and our country forward.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 24, 2011
at 8:57 PM
Noah,
First of all I want to establish that I am a LIBERAL to the point that during the Bush years I wouldn’t go into establishments that had “Bush 2000” or “Bush 2004” placards, and I am delighted when I see “Obama 2008” bumper stickers on cars in front of me. I don’t put little American flags on my car antennae, and I was really ticked off at us going to war in Irag after several failed attempts by our government to establish weapons of mass destruction existed in Iraq, or the connection between Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. I like Michael Moore’s films, Jon Stewart, Rachel Maddow, and really don’t like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Big Feet Coulter (btw I just checked out her blogsite and know why I really don’t like her.) Therefore, your comments about Liberals are comments about me, so I shall respond personally.
I am also proud to be an American, more so with an intelligent caring man as our President, which you graciously acknowledge.
Being a Liberal is not a disease though. I don’t think we are the party of hate (have you ever listened to Coulter?) I have admitted my mistakes when I make them, and I think Bill Clinton was a jerk and Hillary Clinton is a bitch. Your only logical conclusion that we are like an animal cornered by common sense lashing out at anyone in our way is a flawed conclusion, IMHO.
Did you read a former post of Helen’s about “We survived Bush. You’ll survive Obama”? We had 8 years of a Jesus befriending non leading idiot with an evil manipulative pocket lining VP and staff leading us into war, debt, and financial crisis. We were a country of fools to many around the world, and how did some of your conservative side react? I remember one Republican friend (yes I have some of those) sent me a national list of things to do – one of which was ban soccer from our fields because it was not American enough. There were more, but that one really hit home because I really love soccer and my kids were AYSO players that also loved the game at the time.
Noah, I hope you think this is a level headed response. You are not personally insulted, you are not ignored. I am not nit-picking some minor point and say it discredits the entire post. I don’t claim victory. I took the time to read and have decided to respond.
You have the right to your point of view and you can show pages and pages of the facts you want to bring to light. Whether or not we want to read them is our prerogative. I tend to pick and chose the links that I go to (btw did you watch the one JuneauJoe sent today at 8:15 am about how WWII was paid for?) just as I pick and chose restaurants based on good or bad feedback from people I know rather than people that I don’t know.
I would beg to differ about your comment about history not being taught to Liberals (did you watch the one JuneauJoe sent today at 8:15 am?) Have you ever bothered to read Auntie Jean’s history lessons? I hated history and geography as a student, but when I take the time to read Jean’s lessons, I learn and digest the past in a very pleasant way. Have you ever watched Glenn Beck’s takes on history?
I took a look at the countries that eradicated opposing points of view – Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Communist Russia, Castro’s Cuba, Communist China. These were abominations of dictatorships. We don’t have a dictatorship (almost though with Dick Cheney, lol, sometimes I make myself laugh). We have a democracy.
You call the Liberals the party of hate. I sometimes call the Conservatives the party of no. If there were two condominiums on separate blocks, and one was just filled with Conservatives, and the other just filled with Liberals, and I was an average working class person with 3 kids and one of them was running a fever, I wonder which condo I would be welcome in? Which do you think someone like Jesus would be welcome in if He were barefoot and was palling around with the Dalai Lama? Which would welcome you?
I am not blinded by fear. Blinded by hope, maybe, so please change that mantra that was running through your latest commentary. I drink kool aid and I am happy, thank you.
Evidently no one here can change the way you think, and I believe that you cannot change the way anyone here thinks – not with your writing style. It borders on attack, insults, and rudeness with occasional lapses into being reasonable. You predetermine too much and are too quick to respond in anger.
If no one answers your all or any of your questions, so what? I have noticed that you don’t answer a lot of questions either.
This is just my point of view. It is not your point of view. Mine can be respected, or not, accepted, or not. The facts are that we differ and that rudeness is never welcome. If you can accept those facts, then perhaps you will understand the backlash you sometimes get, or the reason why you are ignored. I tried to ignore you, but your generalities and sureness in your latest, and the fact that I had some time on my hands prompted me to respond.
If you would though, please answer a question for me, and it is not at all an attack on you. I am just curious because you don’t sound glad to be here, and it doesn’t sound like you like the majority of us.
Why are you here?
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 24, 2011
at 8:57 PM
Congratulations team BLUE!
Yes we can
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By: lori on May 24, 2011
at 8:37 PM
Go Chrysler & GM – the investment paid off!
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By: delurkergurl on May 24, 2011
at 8:33 PM
Let’s not forget that Chrysler repaid their government loan today, six years early.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 24, 2011
at 8:21 PM
PFesser-
the report is out.
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/investigators-find-no-clear-cause-crash-killed-ted-stevens
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By: alaskapi on May 24, 2011
at 8:19 PM
Congratulations, Kathy Hochul! Good work. The people have spoken loudly today!
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By: delurkergurl on May 24, 2011
at 8:11 PM
I want to thank Paul Ryan for firing up the progressive base, as well as enlightening independents and some Republicans! Onward to 2012! And don’t let us forget Paul Ryan.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 24, 2011
at 8:06 PM
Noah- you can take it seriously. I generally am quite serious .
If the measure of a useless, whining malcontent is merely being a liberal you left me out.
While I disagree with your definition of what a liberal is I am most definitely a liberal.
I am fully anti- neoliberal , anti corporatist, anti right-libertarian, anti-authoritarian right or left, all for single payer health insurance, women’s right to choose, and all those lefty things like appropriate regulation of business and ending subsidies for oil companies.
I even think really crazy things like we made up money , we can make it mean anything we want it to. Like maybe admitting value in long term investment in shifting our way of providing energy to ourselves before we blow the the tops off every frickin mountaintop in Kentucky or averting our eyes while fracking ruins ever dwindling water supplies.
I get tired of hearing about how lefty Pelosi and Reid are/were- they are centrists. Moderate centrists.
I leave em in the dust with my wild ideas and all.
Don’t even get me started on the mess surrounding the privatization of fishing rights experiment which has been going on here in Alaskan fedral waters which is soon to come to every shore in America- left wing authoritarian types and right wing corporate America have teamed up in a nightmare coalition which has the potential to further consolidate the loss of American jobs to made up corporate fictional corporate persons.
BTW- boycott Alaskan pollock products folks.
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By: alaskapi on May 24, 2011
at 7:30 PM
Pro-Rape Senators: Republicans of course!! This is amazingly sick
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By: JuneauJoe on May 24, 2011
at 7:19 PM
High-five, Alaskapi. A wealth of progressive thinkers here, and I’m proud to say I know you.
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By: delurkergurl on May 24, 2011
at 7:02 PM
It has been quite a day, and my mood is too good to think ill of anyone. First, I remembered the person who had an Emily Letilla moment about a the weekend before last, and it made me chuckle.
More importantly, delurkergurl dropped a recipe which looks so good, I wish it was in our kitchen now. I plan to send one of my own, but it will have to wait because too many things are happening here now. I do have one for you.
Juneau Joe didn’t ask me about the Ryan proposal, but here is my opinion anyway. I think it is a rough draft, the first effort to start negotiations for a meaningful discussion and plan to reduce the deficit. Even if it was the last word, it couldn’t pass.
Shortly after 10:30 AM tomorrow, I will be part of a 21 member honor guard for our departed friend. The forecast is for moderate to heavy rain, wind gusts to 40 or 50 MPH and a temperature near 60. It will be interesting to see if those old American Legion rifles will fire when they are drenched.
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By: James on May 24, 2011
at 6:55 PM
Sorry Joe…you still haven’t learned that art of two way communication.
alaskapi, not sure what to say to that.
Were it not so obvious I might have to change my status to profit. Called it.
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By: Noah on May 24, 2011
at 6:44 PM
Well Noah – I am personally insulted almost beyond words.
No one, except perhaps one of the screen names you mention, is near as liberal as I am.
I am so left-libertarian I almost fall off the chart…
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
I am appalled to be left off the list of malignant malingerers.
hippie commie liberal weirdo Pi
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By: alaskapi on May 24, 2011
at 6:36 PM
Hello Helen, Margaret and friends. I’m craving this lemonade pie and thought I’d share the recipe for you. It’s a great quick one:
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/lemonade-pie-v/Detail.aspx
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By: delurkergurl on May 24, 2011
at 5:41 PM
Noah: Just read your latest rant!! Feeling sorry for you. Grow up my friend – we live in the real world.
1. Where do you stand the the Ryan Budget?
2. Why are Republicans passing million dollar bills for showing ID, which many cannot get WHEN THERE HAS NOT BEEN A PROBLEM with election fraud???
Waiting for you answer. BTW – I do not wish you any harm. I want your massive brain to do just fine – wish you would use that brain power you insist you have though.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 24, 2011
at 5:24 PM
Hey all your New Yorker’s: you still have time to cast your vote for Democrat
Kathy Hochul !!!!
Polls close @ 9:00pm
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By: lori on May 24, 2011
at 3:25 PM
Jean:
Did you see the group we have been assigned to? Makes me proud to be in such distinguished company. I could add a lot more names to the list but they are too decent or humble to be subject to such a mindless assault.
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By: jsri on May 24, 2011
at 2:59 PM
Good Morning Congenial Gang,
I think it is so kind and generous of that great progressive feminist lib’ral, Helen to provide this refuge for a few regressives to rant, rave and get their frustrations off their chests. I hope it makes them feel better about themselves. It must get to be discouraging though to know that most people just scroll right on by without notice once they see the names and avatars.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 24, 2011
at 2:05 PM
I think lori sets up the stark contrast between the Liberal and Conservative mindset. You look at how her and other Liberals take so much joy in the supposed demise of their enemy. They always assume the worst and the intense rage and hate they feel for their opposition blinds them to the fact that we all lose when a voice or point of view is lost in our country. History is obviously not taught in the Liberal school of thinking. Look at all the countries where opposing points of view were eradicated. Hitler’s Germany. Stalin’s Communist Russia, Cuba, China. This why Liberalism is a sickness. They actually want this for this country.
I often wonder what makes the Liberals the party of hate. To me their response to most any Republican or Conservative topic to me seems to be very indicative of a fear reaction. I honestly think the Conservative point of view makes too much logical sense and they feel threatened by it. So much so that they lash out in personal attacks against posters they do not even know.
To further back up this hypothesis, I look to the non Liberal posters. I can think of 1 that would come on here and initiate a first strike personal attack on a Liberal. When it comes to the Liberals these boards are ripe with one unprovoked personal attack after another. I wonder why the non Liberals do not feel the need to launch these first strike personal attacks yet the Liberals cannot stop for any period of time?
In the end I think the only logical conclusion is they are like an animal cornered by common sense, mindlessly lashing out at anyone who gets in their way. Let us take a frank look at Liberal ways of thinking and conduct. They have a complete inability to take personal responsibility for themselves. They cannot and do not admit when they are wrong, or even consider the possibility they could be wrong. They can never find anyone in their party at fault, even when it is conclusively proven to be the case. They pretend not to see it, refuse to talk about it. I picture a child with their fingers in their ears screaming LA LA LA LA until a change of topic occurs.
Then there is the topic of intolerance and hate. I do not like Obama’s policies. I do not like the path he is taking our country down. I do not like the Liberal agenda. I think it is full of hypocrisy, immorality, and short sightedness. That said I like Obama as a person. One only has to look and listen to the man to know he has a kind heart and means well. While I think Liberalism is a mental illness, I would not want them to be gone from our country. They are a balancing force that makes our country great. Too much conservatism like anything else is a bad thing. We need people on the other side to strike a equilibrium.
Now look at lori, Cynthia, JuneauJoe, No One’s Puppet, Jean, delurkergurl, elsie09, jsri, Anonymous, Donna, SRT, cryptoclearance, Susan R, Grandma Katie, not to forget our hosts, and the list goes on and on. These posts are bereft of any kind of tolerance or compassion. They are full of hate and bigotry. They actually wish harm on those of opposing points of view. They cannot admit they other side has any merit, again not because there is no merit to be found, but because I believe that they are blinded by fear.
I think it is this fear that causes them to launch these personal attacks because truth is a hard thing to argue against. When one cannot find fault with a point of view, I think the only recourse left them is to try and discredit and mire the poster.
So prediction time. I will be personally insulted. The post will be ignored. They will nit-pick some minor point and say it discredits the entire post, then claim victory. They will blame anyone but themselves or their party. They cannot be bothered to take the time to read and or respond. They will take the moral high ground and not bother.
What will not happen. Admit any fault or wrong doing. No discussion of what we all know to be facts based on hundreds of pages of posts proving exactly my point of view. A level headed response.
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By: Noah on May 24, 2011
at 12:15 PM
Political parties compose talking points from time to time and they distribute them to friendly outlooks and others. They then distribute their spin to the general public. Lori and Joe are smart enough to know that the government cannot create private jobs. It can only make policy.
They also know the Democrats still control the White House and Senate. Republicans can only talk, obstruct and persuade. They don’t have the power to over- ride the two other branches.
I read that the Pelosi office was suggesting employment talk and suddenly, it appeared here. If the Republicans were on their toes, they would turn the argument around and ask “where are the jobs Democrats promised?” but they probably won’t because they have trouble counting their own toes.
I know this is true because I was once a county campaign coordinator, and we did what I described. The scenery is familiar. I also doubt they will contradict me because they usually don’t read what I write.
Its too bad I don’t listen to Rush. My family genes give me a good chance of living to 95 or 100.
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By: James on May 24, 2011
at 11:46 AM
There are all sorts of funny jokes we can say about Rush and Hanity’s programs decline in the ratings…(33 percent ) all of that a side.. IMHO I think their audience is literally dying off! Rush’s largest demographic are white males between the ages of 57-80…It’s been a tough winter! Just sayin….
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/24/rush-limbaugh-ratings-tum_n_866022.html
LOL Mageen.. I don’t know I’m not psychic, but I can say this for certain, FOX News will put the BEST spin on the situation as possible, as will MB’s campaign. If that means airing it under certain prearranged “agreements” they will… Believe me they will NOT put her in a situation that they are not in which they are not in control…… if they are worth their salt…..
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By: lori on May 24, 2011
at 9:01 AM
How was the debt of WWII paid off? Raising taxes
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By: JuneauJoe on May 24, 2011
at 8:15 AM
Cynthia, Lori and y’all! If this “debate” ever comes about, do you think Fox would cover it? Their program managers seem to be about as smart as all those lunatics on Wall Street who damn near took the country — and the world — into economic meltdown.
A kind of related thing: son has seen Fox and wondered aloud at the overload of “blondes”. His question: are they refugees from some sort of Leibensfarm that managed to slip past time and continues to produce? Yeah, I know that’s really some sort of question, but gosh! He actually paid attention in world history class!
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 24, 2011
at 6:07 AM
Where are the jobs the Republicans promised?????
As delurker says AWKWARD!!!!!! 😉
Instead of working on jobs, jobs, jobs, the house Republicans have been busy waging a war on womens rights. They voted to defund Planned Parenthood … they used the budget compromise to take away access to abortion for women (especially low-income women) in the District of Columbia … and just last week, they passed one of the most sweeping attacks on choice ever. (H.R. 3)
H.R. 3 does a lot more than its name would imply.
It resurrects the failed “Stupak ban” from the healthcare debate, effectively banning even private coverage of abortion care, and adds a new tax penalty to ensure that the ban becomes a reality.
It opens up the possibility that rape and incest survivors who choose abortion care could be audited by the IRS.
It makes permanent the current annual ban on federal abortion funding known as the “Hyde Amendment.”
It continues a funding ban for the District of Columbia.
It expands refusal clauses that allow healthcare providers to refuse to provide abortion services.
Finally, it has been reported that Republicans are trying to reinstate a widely-condemned redefinition of rape through behind-the-scenes procedural tactics.
WE need to let our Senators know we will not stand for these extremist’s tactics!
Senators need to hear from Americans that it’s up to them to hold the line. Senate Leadership can’t let H.R. 3 be sneaked onto the floor as an amendment and ALL Senators need to know that Americans oppose the House GOP’s war on women.
Thanks for considering….
http://www.pfaw.org/HR3
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By: lori on May 24, 2011
at 4:30 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Way to go, Juneau Joe!!! You’re on a roll. Keep it up.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 24, 2011
at 12:14 AM
Eric Cantor and oil policy. Who insists on de-regulation for oil speculators?
The Republicans and 3 Democrats side with big oil!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43103651#43086894
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By: JuneauJoe on May 23, 2011
at 10:59 PM
JOBS, JOBS, JOBS – Got Republicans elected 2010. Where are the jobs? Where are the jobs bills since getting elected???
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43103651#43103651
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By: JuneauJoe on May 23, 2011
at 10:49 PM
Oil Companies get Billions in Tax Breaks even though they are making records profits and no one will change it – WHY? They pay millions to Congressmen and they vote for Billions in tax breaks. We, the tax payers get screwed!
http://progressleague.org/index.php/2011/05/20/chart-how-big-oil-corp-secured-billions-in-taxpayer-handouts-they-line-the-pockets-of-those-who-back-them-in-congress/
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By: JuneauJoe on May 23, 2011
at 10:44 PM
Oil price manipulation by the Koch Brothers – imagine that
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By: JuneauJoe on May 23, 2011
at 10:36 PM
sorry meant to put the verse in.
No one knows the day or the hour
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By: Noah on May 23, 2011
at 10:10 PM
As far as the Rapture goes…Matthew 24:36 comes to mind.
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By: Noah on May 23, 2011
at 9:44 PM
Save the date, the new date for the Rapture is Oct. 21.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 9:33 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
This lady tickles me. Nancy Witcher Astor was a native of Virginia who became the first woman to serve in Britain’s House of Commons in 1919. She had a colorful and quite controversial life. She was married twice and had five children. In the Parliament she championed a number of social causes, most notably temperance and women’s suffrage. Please bear in mind that there is a difference between temperance and abstinence. She enjoyed stirring up and entertaining an audience with feminist humor, once joking, “The first time Adam had a chance, he laid the blame on a woman.” On another occasion she issued the mock plea, “We are not asking for “superiority”, for we have always had that – – – all we ask for is “equality”.
Astor had a famous quick wit and often locked horns with Winston Churchill, whom she had helped to become prime minister. One of her foiled attempts to insult the verbally nimble statesman began, “Winston, if I were married to you, I’d put poison in your coffee.” But he retorted quickly, “Nancy, if you were my wife, I’d drink it.” She once gave a costume ball and Churchill asked her to suggest a disguise. She responded cheekily, “Why don’t you come sober, Mr. Prime Minister”.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 23, 2011
at 8:51 PM
Actually that slipped past me. Was posted on another board tonight.
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By: Noah on May 23, 2011
at 8:40 PM
Noah, the date on the post was 2009. Is that plan still operational? It doesn’t matter to me. I have a slight disability, but I have stayed out of the system. I wore my service ribbons backwards as my personal protest when I came home to civilian life. Most people except my commander didn’t notice, and he didn’t care, probably from guilt.
On Wednesday, I will be part of a 21 gun salute for our friend who died–assuming storms don’t blow us away. The others will be wearing their spiffy American legion hats and white gloves. I will be wearing jeans and a seed company cap.
To H–l with them all!
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 8:05 PM
I agree with Lori. “All the better if your fantasy comes true.”
First Person video of Joplin MO tornado 5/22/11 by izelsg is one of the most dramatic videos I’ve seen of people who were probably inside of the funnel.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 7:52 PM
interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtli_1w3Hk4&feature=share
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By: Noah on May 23, 2011
at 6:37 PM
It certainly would be a way to engage young people Cynthia.
Quite honestly I can’t believe MB’s handlers would allow her to participate. She has everything to lose. It’s a political nightmare for her. My guess is she will end up doing some sort of question and answer thing most likely with a set of agreed upon softball fluff.
But if your fantasy comes true… All the better for us! 😉
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By: lori on May 23, 2011
at 5:26 PM
lori – I may agree with you in some ways but think about this. How do you get young people involved in politics? How do you get voters to pay more attention to who they are electing to office?
I don’t know what this young lady knows or Bachmann (perhaps her brain and mouth are just not connected at times). Of course, there would have to be serious intelligent questions.
In my “perfect debate” this young lady would prove to be very knowledgeable and more qualified than Bachmann. Bachmann would prove to be the “air head” I believe her to be.
Young people would watch because it would be one of their own and become inspired to become more involved in politics. Older voters would realize government is not the real problem but more the fault in the quality, or lack of, of the people we elect to run it.
Anyway it could turn out to be a really, really positive debate. Definitely worth the effort!
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 23, 2011
at 5:10 PM
Cynthia, I’m not sure the teenager should lower herself to batshit crazy level.
When you wrestle with pigs everyone gets dirty. I say to the teenager … save your talents for someone who matters, or at least is sane.
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By: lori on May 23, 2011
at 2:42 PM
I think I’ll join him! It has to be 5 o click somewhere! LOL LOL cheers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×585869
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By: lori on May 23, 2011
at 2:38 PM
“We’re taking a poll of DFA members to see if they support Amy Myers’s campaign to get Michele Bachmann to debate her. If DFA members agree, we will launch a campaign supporting Amy.
Take the quick poll and let us know what you think!” ”
I’m in. Bachmann is an abomination – precisely the kind of politician people point to when they want to show what the GOP has become.
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By: PFesser on May 23, 2011
at 1:31 PM
A child is holding an adult responsible for their words. I think this would be a very interesting debate. What do you think?
Politicians are often left unchecked when they make inaccurate claims.
Rep. Michele Bachmann has been making outlandish and even offensive statements about American history for years –- and the media has given her a pass.
Now, Amy Myers, a high school sophomore from New Jersey is gaining national media attention for challenging Congresswoman Michele Bachmann to a debate on U.S. Civics!
We’re taking a poll of DFA members to see if they support Amy Myers’s campaign to get Michele Bachmann to debate her. If DFA members agree, we will launch a campaign supporting Amy.
Take the quick poll and let us know what you think!”
http://democracyforamerica.com/activities/521-should-rep-bachmann-debate-amy-myers?akid=845.1525826.sia1KU&rd=1&t=2
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 23, 2011
at 1:21 PM
Visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D C, you will be surprised, I think, to see some of the now familiar political posters from Germany in the early 1930s.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 12:56 PM
There is a general confusion between political systems and economic systems. Just some of the possible political systems are: democracy, republic, monarchy, parliamentary monarchies, and dictatorships. Possible economic systems are: serfdoms, capitalism, communism, socialism, but today in many countries including United States, economic systems are a combination of capitalism and socialism. With the combination government provides the capital for enterprises that are unfeasible for private industry, building highways and roads, dams, schools, Social Security, Medicare are examples. China used to be a communist country and while it is now a capitalist country, it is still a dictatorship.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 12:54 PM
This is from memory with no documentation.
Benito Mussolini was a hard line communist. During WW1, he realised that conventional socialism wasn’t working. Nationalism exerted a stronger pull on the working class than proletarian brotherhood, so he developed an alternative strategy and called it Fascism. He described his new movement as a “third way” between capitalism and communism. Under communism the state would excercise control over the economy but the corporations would be in private hands.
Hitler borrowed Mussolini’s concept and acknowledge that the Nazi party was socialist, and its enemies were the rich. Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler exterminated labor unions and replaced them with state-run unions. He called capitalism an evil Jewish scheme.
Depending on the definition, a socialist or capitalist can be either liberal or conservative. Socialistic concepts date at least as far back as Plato’s Republic. Maybe Hitler was a Platoist.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 12:37 PM
No One’s Puppet, I didn’t ask you to do anything. You took it upon yourself to do some research before making a comment. You set your own standards then failed to meet them. That is on you.
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By: Noah on May 23, 2011
at 12:33 PM
I will be having nightmares. That is before I think of our daughter. She is no cream puff either.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 12:10 PM
NOP –
“And a historical fact: Nazism is a conservative political system, therefore Hitler was a conservative.”
I’m a little confused here; help me out.
If Nazi-ism is a conservative movement, why did they name it the National Socialist party – Nazi? Aren’t socialists supposed to be Leftists?
I think this is exactly why labeling everybody really throws us off track. It seems to me one should examine the ideas standing alone and pass judgment on them by their own merit, not pre-judge them based on our own pre-judg-ices, don’t you?
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By: PFesser on May 23, 2011
at 12:06 PM
That is so true, you would be in big trouble.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 12:00 PM
From what I know of you, you and my wife would get along well–too well for my good.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 11:54 AM
I have an idea, your wife and I would get along just fine James, when you said, she couldn’t stand seeing or hearing Sarah Palin, I thought I’d found my long lost sister.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 11:47 AM
Noah is not a fool.
I am almost Irish. The Welsh and Irish are Celtic cousins.
Something occurred to me. Some of Obama’s ancestors or relatives were subjected to segregation and other forms of racial prejudice. His Irish ancestors faced signs saying “Irish Need Not Apply.” And Obama is Dick Cheney’s distant cousin. That family couldn’t catch a break.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 11:42 AM
Noah, it is on you, to prove that anything in your statement is true, not coincidental mind you, but fact. I suggest, you pull that olive branch out of arse and get started. And a historical fact: Nazism is a conservative political system, therefore Hitler was a conservative.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 11:42 AM
No One’s Puppet, I think Clinton’s appearance would make a great attention- getter in my term paper the way you described. Obviously, I’d have to search the nineteen nineties for documentation that Bill actually tried more regulation and Congress reacted as he described.
I regard it more like my opening line in a paper on Jumbo the runaway artesain well. I described walls of water and drowning children. Then I qualified the first sentences by writing they were part of an overwrought report in a French newspaper.
Of course, saying “I could have been a better mother” is like Bill’s observation, an open -ended statement meaning nothing beyond the mother’s comparing herself to an ideal she held. In Clinton’s case, he was saying “I saw what might happen. I tried, but no one would listen. It wasn’t my fault.”
I know 9/11 devastated the airline industry and related businesses. Many people were afraid to fly. Our daughter asked our opinion. We told her it was a chance of a life time, and if she didn’t go, she would always regret it. What you wrote is true, but I was indulging in shameless bragging about our daughter who went in spite of the risk.
Yes, I enjoyed the joke. I’m proud, proud, I say. I remembered the color of Joy’s skirt. My wife wants to hunt you down for helping convince me we needed fast internet service. A video of Jewel’s fast yodeling pushed her over the edge.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 11:35 AM
I am very proud of President O’bama this morning, the Irish love him, and of course, the United States of America. I for one love the Irish as well!
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 11:34 AM
And as noted by your own post NOP, you didn’t feel comfortable with your very limited knowledge on the subject to form an opinion without doing some research. Upon doing said research, finding ONLY a few points difference in the DOW numbers for the day cried foul, made an unprovoked personal insults to me, then declared victory. Once again having the olive branch I extended thrown in my face.
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By: Noah on May 23, 2011
at 10:57 AM
Naa No One’s Puppet. I am sure that..aside from you…everyone else is able to do more than say…no your wrong, and expect everyone to think that it is iron clad proof. Maybe you could pay someone to be a friend and help you form an opinion that actually explains your point of view. Calling someone a fool and saying their wrong accomplishes nothing.
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By: Noah on May 23, 2011
at 10:53 AM
The George Carlin video reminds me how much things stay the same, it could have been the early twentieth century all over again. Company towns, company stores, big money influence on both political parties, and The Panic of 1907.
James, what kind of a grade do you want to get on your term paper? I think you could use “The View” in your opening of the term paper, just to get the readers interest, but if you cannot link President Clinton’s statement, ‘I could have done better’ (paraphrasing) to solid documentation, aka paper trail, I’d would advise you to leave it out of the term paper. Question: If I say, ‘I could have been a better mother,’ does that mean I was a negligent mother or worse? Okay, not leaving you yet James, airline companies and others, do know how many flights were canceled in the aftermath 9-11 and while we understand your daughter and her school chums flew to Europe, even if every child had their own plane, they didn’t make up for the airline’s lost business. That would be like me, saying, ‘I know the statistics of teen marriage is rising, because my former babysitter got married and so did a friend of hers.”
Anyone, who wants to take on Noah’s exercise in futility, better be prepared to present copies of documents and eye witness testimony, and no, James (I rib you, because I know, you can take a joke) not the color of Joy’s skirt.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 10:15 AM
Heinlein on thinking and intellectual blindness:
“We defined thinking as integrating data and arriving at correct answers. Look around you. Most people do that stunt just well enough to get to the corner store and back without breaking a leg. If the average man thinks at all, he does silly things like generalizing from a single datum…If he is hungry, hurt, ***or personally interested in the answer***, he can’t use any sort of logic and will discard an observed fact as blithely as he will stake his life on a piece of wishful thinking…Far from aspiring to higher reasoning, ***he is not even aware that higher reasoning exists.”*** (Assignment in Eternity © 1953, Signet, 10th printing, page 46)
(emphases mine) PFesser
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By: PFesser on May 23, 2011
at 8:09 AM
The Wisconsin video is a fine piece of propaganda by labor unions and the Democratic party. Lori posted a link to a young farmer who spoke at a rally. I traced and called him at his home, and we had a nice conversation about Populism.
I believe one of the most important issues for the unions and Democrats was the state’s no longer collecting union dues and giving the money to the unions. That bit of change would make it harder for unions to maintain their membership numbers. They over reacted because they regarded it as a threat to the status quo unions had created.
The Strawbs, a seventies British group sang a song “Part of the Union.”
“As a union man I’m wise
To the lies of the company spies
And I don’t get fooled
By the factory rules
‘Cause I always read between the lines
And I always get my way
If I strike for higher pay
When I show my card
To the Scotland Yard
This is what I say.
Oh you don’t get me I’m part of the union
You don’t get me I’m part of the union…
Till the day I die, till the day I die.”
Noah, and Juneau Joe, I hope you two spend the summer discussing. You are pretty evenly matched. It should be entertaining.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 8:01 AM
Noah, I don’t have time to authenticate all of that post. As I write, I am also filing my two morning weather reports. However, you probably noticed I found some evidence to support the benefits of tax cuts, that Republicans did try to regulate Fannie and Freddie etc. over Democratic opposition. A Sept 22, 2008 Clinton appearance on the View also featured a couple of sentences which confirmed Democrats and some Republicans fought more regulation of trading during Clinton’s administration.
NOP asked you “what did Bush accomplish?” That good PBS link discussing the economic havok bin Ladin’s organization inflicted on the US and the world reminds us of how bad it was. Bush’s policies repaired the economy. I found documentation, and I found an article showing the press emphasized the negative while we dragged our selves out of recession.
Not everyone stopped flying in those days. Our daughter and her college class flew to and around Europe for three weeks in late October, 2001.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 7:30 AM
I could have used Bill Clinton’s appearance on the View in a term paper after all. He appeared on September 22, 2008, and he said as I recalled that he should have tried harder to regulate derivitives etc, but Republicans and Democrats blocked him.
Lori made a blanket statement about Republicans’ surpressing the vote. In the same spirit, mine is “Democrats steal votes”. One old example is “landslide Lyndon” Johnson.
Thanks for the complement Honolulu Sally, “Skin of an armadillo…” I like that. I am not a poster child for the Tea Party or Sarah Palin. I was defending both because their critics portrayed them as irrelevant nuts when they were transformative forces before the last election. Both were useful counterbalances to Democratic power. I attended several of their demonstrations but that didn’t make me a member of the Tea Party any more than my attending anti- war demonstrations made me a part of that movement.
You might enjoy reading “What’s the Matter With Kansas?” Yes, the United States and the world have more poor and middle class people than rich. Some of them vote on cultural, not economic issues. Others work for “rich guys ( oil companies) or own stock in their companies.
You wrote you had become a real estate vulture. I was a machinery vulture during the farm depression. We were nearly broke and needed a combine etc, so I traveled as much as 150 miles to areas even more economically depressed than we. I bought two combines at one sale because they were so cheap. People stared at me after I bought a stalk cutter and muttered “scalper.” I felt bad about it, but it was business.
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By: James on May 23, 2011
at 7:00 AM
lori –
I repeat myself, but:
Do you EVER think about anything critically, or do you just have a wire that goes into your hypothalamus that pulses: “DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST?
Do you ever think there might be two sides to an argument? Do you ever think both sides might occasionally be wrong? Do you ever think?
Just musing…
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By: PFesser on May 23, 2011
at 5:16 AM
Auntie Jean, You’re right of course. The Republicans have always been known for their less than fair voter suppression tactics they employ on election day haven’t they?
This election will be no different. We must get the word out BEFORE election day. We need to make sure and remain up-to-date on our state’s election laws (especially in RED states) and communicate any changes in the laws to our friends and neighbors. Whether it be in a casual conversation over the fence, or a letter to the editor, or a friendly coffee clutch, it’s important to get the word out.
Thanks for bringing it up. Here is Donna Brazile’s take on the situation.
Voter beware!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-05-17-GOP-disenfranchising-voters_n.htm
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By: lori on May 23, 2011
at 5:00 AM
Good night, JuneauJoe, and WOW I never knew that side of George Carlin! No jokes, just straight intelligent real talk.
Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad Poor Dad) says the same thing in his book “Conspiracy of the Rich” but he just doesn’t use the F word, hardly.
What I can’t understand is why people who are poor or middle class vote for Republicans that have special interest groups needs (rich guys, oil companies) as their priority. I have no data to support this theory, but I really do believe there are more poor and middle class people than there are rich people in our country.
I miss George Carlin. He made me laugh, but this video made me sad.
Ho boy. I think I’ll go catch some Jon Stewart to cheer me up. I wonder if the two of them ever met.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 23, 2011
at 1:07 AM
Here is some George Carlin – Good Night.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 23, 2011
at 12:42 AM
Thanks JuneauJoe, I found the ideas presented in the video rather intriguing, I hope I can make to a hundred or so, just so I can read what some of the many historians, economists, and political scientists manage to uncover in their research that isn’t available at the moment. We do live in exciting times, harrowing, but exciting. Glad to hear, you are going to around and expressing yourself more.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 12:37 AM
Noah: Good news. I have at least 2 months off starting next weekend. More time to discuss issues with you!!!!
You excited??????? I am…
Good Night Noah.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 23, 2011
at 12:21 AM
Great Video No One’s Puppet – very informative.
Then you throw in the tax cuts on top and we have a financial disaster created during GW Bush’s term.
**Note: Every war before this one had taxes raised to pay for it. This tax cut and fight two wars instead of one, on credit, was GW Bush’s idea. Vietnam, Korea and WWII had raised taxes to pay for those wars. Kind of pay as you go.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 23, 2011
at 12:19 AM
Good night Noah:
You have a great brain, better than mine by far.
I have a couple of questions for you.
70 ‘BILLION PER YEAR for the wealthiest few!!! It has not produced jobs in the past – why should we give BILLIONAIRES WELFARE?
It costs more to put people in Private Prisons than in State Prisons. With the budget concerns, we need to make Prisons a State function. (We have the highest prison population in the world. By privatizing it – we are jailing more people a money motivator.)
You and I can talk – we really can Noah,
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By: JuneauJoe on May 23, 2011
at 12:04 AM
Since we can’t get past fighting and placing blame for our economic decline (actually the decline of the world’s economy, with a couple of exceptions), I want to share a short, 9 minute, snip from a show I saw on PBS a couple of weeks ago.
http://video.pbs.org/video/1912239109
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By: No One's Puppet on May 23, 2011
at 12:01 AM
PFesser, never apologize for giving your honest input on anything concerning me. I know I can count on you for an honest opinion and would never fault you for it. It is just a shame so few have enough integrity to keep to the spirit of a topic, use deceit to lure people in then launch unwarranted personal attacks.
I like Pfesser, James, Craig, and a few others like Raji. What I have noticed to date with a rare exception, the Liberals seem to be unable to long tolerate anyone that is not like them. They, for whatever reason, feel so threatened that they have to demean the poster directly rather than engage their posts. I think it is very telling that with a single post they are able to make some very harsh judgements on people and make derogatory assertions about them that they could not possibly know. That said.
I just don’t care enough about Joe to hold a grudge. As soon as he is able to find it within himself to answer a question I will happily engage him. delurkergurl (who I am convinced is a sociopath) and NOP are the rare exception. Both have suckered me into trusting them then burned me one to many times. I hold out hope karma with deal with both in a fitting manner.
I would be interested to see your take Pfessor and James on my post that the NOP made claims with no actual thought process or proof (sticking with Liberal rules of engagement) that everything in that post was not true. I conceded the dow numbers were off a few points for the day but not so much so to derail the post. I also found the original source of the post (or at least I think it is) to lay to rest NOP’s whining about somehow thinking I claimed it was my creation.
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 10:25 PM
Hi Guys,
Glad to see so many folks back.
Here is a video of Wisconsin. It really is great! These people are fighting for the middle class of America. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
http://vimeo.com/22865942
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 10:05 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Sistah Sally, what a delightful raptured almost under the bed story – naked no less! You can’t beat us kama’ainas for our wicked sense of humor. Uh, about the rhubarb pie. I’ll ‘fess up. I lied. Haven’t had any rhubarb in over 20 years. I yearn for it so I fantasize about it here on the porch. Give Werner a shout for me when you ‘see’ him.
Raji, now you are really back!!! We always, always enjoyed your input. Keep ’em comin’! Now if we can just round up avotrosante and a some others, M&H’s will be back in business.
lori, not to worry about Lingle winning Akaka’s old senate seat. Her track record is the WORST. Not a prayer if the election is held fair and square, unless……… something I have learned, well suspected before, but never confirmed until the last couple of years. If the “repressives” can’t and know they can’t prevail, they have no compuntion about dirty tricks, legal machinations, deceitful shenanagans, pouring money in, the whole spectrum. Well, we progressives put them on notice that we are on to them and instead of out-dirty tricking them, we can expose them! They can try to weasel out till the cows come home, but more and more I think society at large is catching on to them too.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 22, 2011
at 8:48 PM
“I knew something was amiss with Helen when there were no new posts from her in months. What a lady. In her parlor, our pins and needles, angst and anguish during the 2008 campaign could be reduced to joy, laughter, relief and mutual celebration after it was all over and OUR good guy won. ”
and celebrate we did!!!! LOL LOL we had a hell of a time during that campaign and made a few friends along the way. 😉
Yep, he has had to cave. After all he is the leader of the entire United States and he did promise to “work together” didn’t he? But all and all I too am pleased and proud he is our President. No regrets here. He has accomplished much. We have many miles before we rest though and I’m ready to do it all again!!!!! LOL LOL I’ll see you same place same time November 2012!
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By: lori on May 22, 2011
at 7:28 PM
Lori,
I haven’t worn a swimsuit in so many years, the elastic has turned to mush. In fact, my tastes since I have worn a swimsuit (fka bikini) have changed so much, I kept my 92 year old mother’s swimsuit after her passing as suitable wear just in case I really need to show up in swimming gear one raptureless day.
Raji and Professor, the mortgage mess was a terrible offspring of greedy people without foresight. It is really sad to hear of people (foolish or otherwise) losing their homes because of it. However, that being said, that also caused a helluavah lot of opportunity for average Joes (Hi Juneau!) to afford to invest.
GASP! Yup, I would be what Michael Moore calls a vulture – a real estate investor. The bad guys are not always the investors. Believe it or not, investors have hearts and sometimes can help people stay in their house. I’ve done 2 short sales negotiating with the bank and then let the original homeowners stay in their house paying me rent at fair prices with the option to buy back their homes in a few years at fair market (LOW) prices when their credit is restored. It’s good for me and it’s good for the homeowner. The problem is that banks won’t give me much more credit or work out loan modifications for distressed homeowners.
So that’s where I’ve been, but I have taken breaks and my favorite place to check in was always Margaret and Helen’s parlor and quietly catch up on old friends and tsk tsk at some comments without putting fingers to the keyboard.
Noah has produced a lot of tsk tsks, but then so did James when he first hopped aboard and did his Sarah Palin love feelies. He is a Tea Party poster child with the skin of an armadillo and stories that rival Forrest Gumps, but he does make for good reading!
I knew something was amiss with Helen when there were no new posts from her in months. What a lady. In her parlor, our pins and needles, angst and anguish during the 2008 campaign could be reduced to joy, laughter, relief and mutual celebration after it was all over and OUR good guy won. Sour grapes were inevitable (hi UAW!).
President Obama isn’t perfect, he’s had to cave in to a lot of concessions, his hair is turning grey, he’s proven that he isn’t from the planet Krypton, but I still am GLAD and PROUD that he is our President, and sure wish that Newt the embarrassed would run against him with Sarah the bitch (just semi quoting Helen there) as his VP. THAT would be a VERY interesting ticket.
As for our former Republican governor getting our Senate seat – not in the next millennium. Her pal Sarah Palin can pitch for her ’til the wolves come home but there just aren’t enough tea parties going on here in Hawaii. She also doesn’t have much sex appeal. To paraphrase from Saturday Night Live, “She looka like a man…”
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 22, 2011
at 7:10 PM
waving to Raji too…
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By: lori on May 22, 2011
at 6:15 PM
Keep the pie coming Poolman!! make my sugarless pleaseeeeeeeeee 😉
Salllyyyy where the heck have you been? It’s so good to see you. I stopped in at Delurker’s kitchen and noticed someone mentioned you were back, so I hurried over. So glad I did I needed a laugh after shopping all after noon for a swimsuit! ugggg.. LOL LOL
I was just reading an article about you and Jean’s up coming senate race. It looks like your old governer is going to have a tough time getting any traction in a state that THANKFULLY is still bluer than the water that surrounds it. 😉 Keep up the good fight though!
I hope to see you more often. 😉
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By: lori on May 22, 2011
at 6:13 PM
Honolulu Sally
Thanks for making my day
😆 😆 😆
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By: Raji on May 22, 2011
at 6:06 PM
Hiya delurkergirl!
(are we off topic or what?!?)
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 22, 2011
at 6:02 PM
Auntie (Sistah) Jean!
Where on earth do you get rhubarb on Kauai? The best and only time I ever had a piece of rhubarb strawberry pie was in Strafford, Vermont at the Stone Soup restaurant. Quite delicious!
Nice dropping in and seeing you too as well as Granny Katie still kicking those tires and many other old and new friends. Whirled Peas is probably off making movies. Werner and I are friends on Facebook, though he probably doesn’t know who I am, lol.
Happy Non Rapture everyone! We live to see another day or so.
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 22, 2011
at 5:46 PM
@ Pfessor ” I think this housing mess is the ultimate example of what happens when the govt meddles in the private sector and sitorts supply, demand and risk, but of course, it’s different THIS time”
The private sector USED the government. Banks and mortgage brokers issued toxic mortgages (unsecured/no down payment/based on high end appraisals). They packages these toxic mortgages and sold them to entities such as Fannie and Freddie among others. It was a win-win situation for all as both issuers and buyers reaped the benefits of point and fees. These toxic packaged mortgages were sold on a global basis and many hedge funds included these packages in their portfolios.
It is hard to resist Manna from Heaven.
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By: Raji on May 22, 2011
at 5:45 PM
Hiya Sally!
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By: delurkergurl on May 22, 2011
at 5:40 PM
Poolman!
Ha ha ha, glad you have a sense of humor about the rapture – thought for sure you would be one of the ones raptured up…
My husband the JW doesn’t believe in the rapture like the Camping or Lutheran crowd. Last night before we fell asleep, I told him that I hope I see him in the morning and that neither of us is taken (raptured).
I got up at 7:15 am (unusual for me especially on Sunday) and saw him still sleeping, so I slipped off my pajamas and undies, placed them on the bed where I usually lay down, and then I hid naked beside my side of the bed (rather uncomfortably because it was knees and elbows to wooden floor.)
A few minutes later he wakes up and calls out my name. I see his feet hit the floor and gleefully think he will look all over the house and yard for me – with him possibly considering the rapture be the reason for his missing wife of 30 years.
Instead, he rolls back on the bed, and happens to look over the bed and asks, “What are you doing there?”
Rapture scene disrupted, I looked like a fool, and my older naked body was exposed to sunlight with much embarrassment.
Oh well, the best laid plans of man (or woman) don’t always work. At least we had a good laugh about it.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 22, 2011
at 5:35 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
It is great to ‘see’ you again Sistah Sally! You are a breath of fresh tradewind air. Also raji earlier. You have both been missed. I hope you and your families are all well, happy and busy as usual. Come on over to the Kitchen. That’s where lots of action is. Now we need to round up Bruddah Peas and his great links.
Yeah, Poolman, I’ll have a nice piece of pie. I brought a couple of rhubarb-strawberry pies with me to share. Really tart! Later I’ll treat myself to a nice glass of White Zin.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 22, 2011
at 5:24 PM
Dang! A raptureless weekend!
Stranded on the earth vessel.
Gravitationally locked.
Physically bound.
Ah, well…
Hey, but it’s good to see all the familiar “faces” visiting the porch. Pass me a slice of apple pie with a scoop of vanilla bean ice cream atop. I guess I don’t need to eat too lightly on a post rapture Sunday. 😀
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By: poolman on May 22, 2011
at 4:48 PM
JuneauJoe –
“1.Again: It it is cheaper and as safe to use State Prisons instead of Private Prisons, SHOULD WE GO BACK TO PUBLIC PRISONS TO SAVE MONEY? I say Yes.”
So do I. There is something very, very wrong with a private industry incarcerating American citizens. The profit motive is a wonderful thing, but I really do NOT like the perverse incentive built into the Wackenhut (sp?) model.
“Some states continually take in more Federal Dollars than they pay into the Federal Treasury. SHOULD THE FEDS STOP THE FEDERAL WELFARE TO THOSE TAKE, TAKE, TAKE STATES?”
Very tough call, but I say yes, stop it. One of the worse offenders is my home state, WV. My accountant told me we were a net drag on the US economy twenty-five years ago, so it’s not getting any better. I think it is a good example of another kind of perverse incentive – structuring your state govt model to suck in federal dollars instead of private business. I think it is also a good example of how the socialist model does NOT work; WV is basically a welfare state. When I was a kid nobody had much, but nearly everybody worked. Then the VISTA workers (one of whom was Jay Rockefeller – now WV senator) came in and told everybody they were poor and depressed and sure enough in short order they were! The feds sent us money, put in place incentives for bastardy – and now a high percentage of births are to unwed teens! They made it easy to get on the dole, and amazingly a high percentage are! The Legislature, controlled by Big Coal and trial lawyers, sold out to the coal companies, who are raping the mountains apace, and the education system is so poor the people can’t get anybody with anything on the ball to stay there and fight the coal barons. WV is a pretty educational little microcosm – and a fine example of what NOT to do.
************
I know it’s none of my business, but I would like to hear what you and Noah have to say in your discussions but it is hard to get past the personal stuff. How about a truce and a “let’s get back to the topic?” Tell me to go to hell if you want.
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By: PFesser on May 22, 2011
at 4:34 PM
Missed your posts very much. I am so sorry to hear of your loss, but I am glad that you are back with us and posting. I wish I were as clever as you are with your posts. It is funny, but since Osama bin Laden has been killed my husband doesn’t feel compelled to get up in the middle of the night to watch news on TV. I for one am glad that he is dead, too bad he did not take Fox News with him. (Actually it is one of the good thing about living rurally and being too cheap to buy cable–I don’t have to watch the screaming heads on Fox News. I hate it when my husband feels compelled to inflict the screaming head on Fox talk radio on me, it is a good thing that there is no cable TV in my house as there would be a divorce. Anyway–Welcome Back Helen and Margaret!
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By: katcopi on May 22, 2011
at 3:40 PM
btw, thanks for the history and geography lessons Auntie Jean. The Bible is a fascinating book – it ends with Revelations, but that is not the timeline order of writings. A group of men got together and eliminated this or that and decided that Revelations was a good ending to the good book. Knowing the history of St John the Evangelist, the “beast” and many of his symbolic creatures could have been written in relation to his current anger and angst due to Caesar’s ruling of his year long fate in a dark and cold cave with little comforts.
Who really knows what prompted John to write what he did? Different answers from different degrees of belief. I am glad though, that they gave John some paper and pen to write with, or this most taken apart and controversial book of Revelations would not be with us today.
Sally (leaving the room now to pick up dear JW husband from his church, then having a southwest grilled chicken salad from McDonald’s for lunch)
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 22, 2011
at 3:38 PM
NOP, I have really enjoyed arguing with you and the others these past few days. I hope we can continue later. The world didn’t come to an end for us, but it did for a good friend. We last saw each other when we were part of an American Legion honor guard. He told me he and his wife were hoping we could come over for a visit. I promised we would. But things got in the way these last two months.
Last evening my friend was working in his shop when his world ended. His wife found him when he didn’t come in for supper. He was quite a man. Frank was one of the first Army Rangers to scale the cliffs of Normandy in WW11. Finally , his nightmares will end. They have eight children and not all are here yet.
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By: James on May 22, 2011
at 3:17 PM
Ah, Aunty Jean, I am also very glad all of us are still here. Feel a bit sorry for the Harold Camping rapture crowd, but they will probably wait a little bit more. Once people get it fixed in their minds that they KNOW this or that, the mind just sets itself into a tunnel. Happens here too. It just is how man is, and it does make for some interesting or uncomfortable conflict, doesn’t it?
I guess I like the tunnel parlor of Margaret and Helen. I am not confrontational enough to even visit the tunnel parlors of Beck, Rush, etal.
Being a non-denominational Christ and God believing, Buddhist way of life kind of gal, my Jehovah’s Witness husband and I have a lot of discussion about his religion as you can imagine. Many times I have to ask myself, “To what end?” Would I be happier if he left his religion that he goes to religiously (lol)? He would be like a ship adrift without anchor. He clings to his beliefs and is a good man. Should I as a good wife follow in his footsteps and go to his Kingdom Hall and stifle my “excuse me but I beg to differ” opines? I would be an undesirable thorn there.
[“The fires of heaven and the fires of hell are not two separate entities but contrary manifestations of the same energy.”] ~ a favorite quote from Auntie Jean is a good one.
I am guessing that each of us would like to believe we are with the heaven’s side, and so in our own chosen tunnel parlors, we are.
Aloha, Namaste, and Shalom too,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 22, 2011
at 3:08 PM
NOP, as you write, the only way the View would pass muster in a college term paper would be if I could find the show. I probably could find it. I was house sitting for our daughter and son in law in on a Monday in late September, I think. The economy was still melting. It had rained that morning. You will really think this us stupid. Joy Behar was wearing a dark skirt, and it attracted my attention because I thought she wanted to look nice for an ex- president. If someone was paying me, or if I was fighting for a grade, I think I could find the show assuming archives are available.
Like you, I try to look for as many sources as I can find, and I also take into account the bias of a web site. Yes, the New York Times has been punked in the past. Most news organizatins have been. I also remember news stories and if something fits a similar memory I think it might be true. If it is something like economics, I recall what I was taught and decide if the story “feels” right.
I agree we need to learn find facts and use resources. But there is more. We can interpret the facts and make connections in truthful, but novel ways. For example in one term paper, I demonstrated effects of the Stockholm Syndrome on prisoners of Nazi death camps, American slaves, and troops in basic training.
I’m with you NOP. Do you notice when you see a view of London etc you know what is just outside the frame? I’ll be watching, and I will be looking for familiar sights as I’m sure you will. Have you ever checked the BBC Weather Centre? It is a small way to keep in touch with what is happening.
It is interesting how though we speak the same language, we can misunderstand each other isn’t it? My wife and I lived in a 450 year old thatched roofed cottage for two years. She left our broom outside after she swept the sidewalk. A neighbor told her never to do that. A broom leaning against a house was an invitation of the R rated sort.
We learned our yard was a garden. A yard was a feed lot.
I’m as ready as you for another visit.
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By: James on May 22, 2011
at 3:08 PM
Noah, Since we are discussing budgets:
Consider the PEOPLE’S BUDGET! It balances the budget, keeps Medicare and Medicaid with modest changes and does it much faster than the Ryan Budget, which you like.
You seem afraid to get into a discussion, which surprises me. You, vast intellect and knowledge, and poor me, just your average nobody.
Thank You for sharing your knowledge with lowly me.
Click to access The%20CPC%20FY2012%20Budget.pdf
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 3:06 PM
Good Sunday Morning Congenial Gang,
It appears all us lib’ral miscreants are still here until the next End-of-Time go round while the good conservatives have all been beamed up. Maybe the wording should be “progressives” and “regressives” instead. Some people here might welcome a change of pace from the usual arguing-with-a-fence-post-trying-to-prove-a-minute-point about ancient history/recent times.
I’m sure most of you know that this end-of-the-world-stuff in Christian theology usually springs from the Gospel according to St. John the Evangelist in the Book of the Apocalypse, also known in Protestant circles as the Book of Revelations.
In 2006 we were on an extended visit to Turkey and Greece. I think I’ve already told you about Istanbul, Cappadocia, Kos, Crete and Athens. Two of our other destinations were to Ephesus, Turkey and then on to the Greek island of Patmos in the Aegean Sea. (I’m sure most of you know of St. Paul’s Epistle to the “Ephesians” in the Gospel.)
The Apostle John was exiled from Ephesus to the tiny island of Patmos. There he lived in a cave and wrote the Book of the Apocalypse. Actually, it is said he dictated it to an amanuensis in Greek. Tradition says John was only on Patmos for a year and then returned to Ephesus where, after living to be about 100, he died and is buried. In subsequent times, the St. John Monastery was built high up on a hill near the cave where John lived. The monastery is still active.
The cave is preserved as a shrine. It is very small with a low ceiling and extremely dismal. A wretched place. The niche where supposedly he slept displays an oval stone pillow for his head. Now, after all the horrendous persecutions John had witnessed, including the cruel crucifixion of his best friend under the brutal repression and subjugation of the Roman Empire, it would not be surprising that he would become an extremely bitter and even vengeful old man as he contemplated the end of his own life and thus the “End of the World as He Knew It”. The apostles fervently believe that Jesus would return to earth during their lifetimes.
Having seen in person the places in his world where John lived and preached are quite different experiences from reading about and hearing about it all one’s life. It changes one’s perspective. Somewhere along the line the Christian messages of peace and love get lost when people choose to take literally and latch onto the bitter and vengeful messages often associated when Christian as well as other organized religion evolved. I just feel these are the flip sides of human nature.
One of my favorite quotes, metaphorically speaking, is “The fires of heaven and the fires of hell are not two separate entities but contrary manifestations of the same energy.”
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 22, 2011
at 2:14 PM
Sorry Joe, you have never once answer a direct question posed to you, till that changes we have nothing further to discuss. Like Lori, I think you probably are employed by some political organization to perform some menial task. While lori posts propaganda with no conversation or insight you seem bent on bury posts that clash with whatever your agenda is with repeated nonsensical drivel.
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 1:36 PM
Noah:
I am ready to discuss. Why are you afraid to discuss the topics of the day?
-What do you think about the 70 Billion TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHIEST or welfare for the rich as some smart folks are saying?
-If it is cheaper to run State Prisons than Private Prisons, should we go back to Public Prisons to help balance the budget?
-Why are the Republicans focusing on Abortion instead of JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!
You totally won the discussion yesterday – I agree, you are super smart. I need your thoughts – seriously.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 1:26 PM
Sorry Joe…I cannot help you. Your inability to have a two way conversation makes debate an impossibility. I wish you well with your Bush obsession.
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 1:19 PM
Noah: Please, I am begging you, help me sort out the future for you.
You are so very smart – I need your input so I be smart like you.
1. What reasons can you give for keeping the 70 Billion per year WELFARE FOR THE WEALTHIEST! All I read or be told by smart people is that it do not produce JOBS, JOBS, JOBS.
2. Should the Paul Ryan Budget pass?
You be smart and need to teach people such like me the correct thinking.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 1:04 PM
JuneauJoe, what problems did you have with the information I posted? Or just your thoughts in general.
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 12:57 PM
Noah: The Ryan Budget: Should it be the litmus test for any serious (Adult) Republican who is running for office in 2012?
I just had a smart person tell me that as soon as it is passed The Ryan Budget would cost 2 Billion per year to those on Medicare because it opens up the Donut Hole.
Should the Ryan Budget be passed as is, with no tax increases? Thank You for taking the time to explain in a simple way your thinking. (Being too complex may confuse me.)
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/paul-ryan-thinks-voters-will-reward-republ
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 12:50 PM
Noah:
Please help me with this one please.
JOBS, JOBS, JOBS was what got Republicans elected to the last election.
Please explain the jobs bill which the Republicans have produced. Where is it? What was it?
Seems to me that they are really pushing Anti-abortion legislation, continued tax cuts for the wealthiest (which I feel does not produce jobs) and tax increases on the middle class (Paul Ryan’s budget.)
Thank You for your brilliance and taking the time to explain your thinking to a simple soul such as myself.
I am honored that you take the time to clarify.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 12:37 PM
Noah: I just want to thank you for lowering yourself to discuss with me. I am not nearly as brilliant as you are. I will try to understand your big words.
Thank You for your time, Sir.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 12:25 PM
Noah: We need to sort out the future.
If it costs more to put people in Private Prisons than State Prisons; Should we be putting people into State Prisons and Save Money? I think Yes.
How about the 70 Billion Per Year tax breaks given to the wealthiest. If that money is not shown to produce jobs, SHOULD WE STOP THE WELFARE TO THE RICHEST? The data my friends tell me is that it is not producing jobs.
What say you?
I think we need to quit messing with the past and move on to now and the future.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 12:23 PM
Actually I am for execution for anyone given a Life sentence without the possibility of parole. Why should we have to house and feed these people for decades that have little to nothing to contribute to society.
Joe, conversations are a two way street. I am not about to have one sided conversations with you if you are not going to reciprocate. Now if you are not responding because as I suspect you just have no knowledge of the subject I am covering then just say so. Lack of knowledge isn’t a sin. I suspect you have smart friends or read from sources that agree with your general understanding of Liberalism and quote them to have something to contribute. That is all fine and well but makes for poor debate.
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 12:18 PM
102 Things NOT TO DO if you HATE paying TAXES!
NOAH:
1.Again: It it is cheaper and as safe to use State Prisons instead of Private Prisons, SHOULD WE GO BACK TO PUBLIC PRISONS TO SAVE MONEY? I say Yes.
2. Some states continually take in more Federal Dollars than they pay into the Federal Treasury. SHOULD THE FEDS STOP THE FEDERAL WELFARE TO THOSE TAKE, TAKE, TAKE STATES? (They are most generally red states/)
http://thepragmaticprogressive.org/wp/2011/05/20/102-things-not-to-do-if-you-hate-taxes/
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 11:46 AM
What is the root cause of the deficit now and in the future?? Check this out.
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/whats-really-driving-national-debt–0
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 11:38 AM
Noah: Studies show that it costs more to house prisoners in Private Prisons than State Prisons.
Given the Budget concerns: Should we go back to State Run Prisons? It makes financial sense. I think yes myself.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 10:48 AM
To help cut the deficit; Cut off the slacker states. You know the states that put in less money to Federal treasury than they put into the treasury. Funny though: Those are most often Red States. Imagine that.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/welfare-queen-states/2011/05/17/AFzTK45G_story.html
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 10:46 AM
In Michigan, and about ready for a recall on our Governor.
NOP. It is a shame you are what a true Liberal is. At least with Hitler he said exactly what he was going to do. Your kind are bigoted, spiteful, deceitful, hateful liars without any sense of decency, tolerance or honor. Knowing you as I do now I am sure you will take that as a compliment.
So as I posted that information with no ulterior motive, and assumed the source was true as it appeared to be legit, what parts are in error? The numbers for the most part seem to match up.
The dems did take control in the 110th congress. They did control the purse strings.
Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.
The economic meltdown that happened did take place in the Banking and Financial Services.
Toxic loans were dumped.
Obama did take the 3rd largest payoff from Fanni and Freddie.
I ask in all honesty what parts of this are in dispute?
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 10:42 AM
Michigan Protests Yesterday!!! Bring on the recalls:
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 10:32 AM
The Ryan Budget: Some fact checking:
http://dccc.org/blog/entry/fact_check_paul_ryans_false_claims_on_the_republican_budget/
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 10:29 AM
Noah, my loss. LOL
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By: No One's Puppet on May 22, 2011
at 10:25 AM
Sorry, I inserted, my personal experience in and made a goof, but all the same I will hate missing the pomp and circumstance of a state visit processional as much as the Londoners.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 22, 2011
at 10:20 AM
James, your memory of the view or radio comments won’t pass muster for a college paper. And in my mumble opinion, the only thing we learn in college is how to find the facts and use those resources. When the facts are wrong in the first place, it really doesn’t matter, how many sites the false planted stories appear on. I agree with you about NYT, but don’t forget even they have been punked, so it is always good to look for three creditable sources whenever possible.
President Obama is going to be very busy this week; Ireland, London, Normandy, and after that Poland. I will be nostalgic, every time I see a shot of London, London Eye and all, I remember how much fun I had in London. The population there are really looking forward to his visit, but disappointed that there won’t be a processional through the city to Buckingham Palace. The Obamas will instead arrive by helicopter at the palace. Times have changed and pomp and circumstance have gone to the wayside. I doubt, that the Obamas will be caught up in a misunderstanding in our common language, like my daughter and I were. My daughter asked the desk clerk to call up a taxi, it early on a Saturday morning and there were no taxis in front of our hotel, the clerk went out to the street to hail a cab. We made a mental note to be certain, to ask them to make a phone call for a taxi the next day, so we wouldn’t miss our flights. And I for one am sorry to see it go. I certainly hope that Michelle Obama will be able to do some sight seeing in Normandy while President Obama is at the G8. Is it too obvious I am ready to go back for another visit?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 22, 2011
at 10:16 AM
Noah:
– Did the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq go on credit cards? That is about 1 million dollars per year – per soldier.
-The tax break to the wealthiest amounts to 70 Billion per year. Was that money paid up front or has it been put on a credit card?
-De-regularion: How many jobs did GW Bush send overseas? (How does that compare to other Presidents?)
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2011
at 10:15 AM
Raji and PFesser-
Yes and yes.
Plenty of blame to go around- long years of deregulating thoughtlessly by Fed-Congress and Pres, a shift after the recession in 70s to a more neoliberal capitalist mindset, everyday Americans falling for the bubble-inducing gas coming off Wall Street and the like…
Add in unfunded wars and tax cuts- poof!!!
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3490
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By: alaskapi on May 22, 2011
at 10:13 AM
Speaking of fact checking NOP….
MAY 22, 2011 Sunday news FACT CHECK….
FACT CHECK: PAUL RYAN’S FALSE CLAIMS ON THE REPUBLICAN BUDGET
FACT CHECK: Paul Ryan Falsely Claims his House Republican Budget Won’t Hurt Current Seniors
On Meet the Press, Republican Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (WI-01) falsely claimed about his controversial budget: “In a nutshell we’re saying don’t affect current seniors.”
In reality, the Republican budget would reopen the prescription drug donut hole, costing each of the four million seniors who fall into the coverage gap $2.2 billion next year alone. Ryan’s budget would also cut funding for the nearly 1 million long-term care patients currently relying on Medicaid. Additionally, the House Republican budget would end Medicare for future retirees, almost doubling health care costs for seniors according to the independent Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
FACT CHECK:
The Republican Budget Will Force Nearly Four Million Seniors To Pay An Additional $2.2 Billion For Prescription Drugs Next Year Alone. “The Republican-passed budget will force nearly four million seniors to pay an additional $2.2 BILLION for prescription drugs next year alone.” According to the Associated Press, “The coverage gap in the Medicare prescription drug benefit would be brought back.” [DPCC, 4/21/11; Associated Plan, 4/6/11]
Ryan budget criticized for potential cuts to nursing-home care. “While House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) is pitching his Medicaid overhaul as welfare reform, healthcare providers and liberal groups are warning that its greatest impact may be on seniors. Because Medicare does not cover long-term care such as lengthy nursing home stays, some 14 million seniors and people with disabilities instead rely on Medicaid. […] “One million patients require long term care through Medicaid every day,” Mark Parkinson, the president and CEO of the American Health Care Association, said in a statement. [The Hill, 4/5/11]
AARP: Budget Undermines Vital Programs for Older Americans. “Among its provisions, the proposal would drive up costs for people in Medicare, take away needed coverage for long-term care from millions of older and disabled Americans and reduce critical help for seniors facing the threat of hunger.” [AARP, 4/7/11]
CBO: Elderly People Would Pay More for Health Care Under the Republican Plan. According to the CBO, “most elderly people would pay more for their health care than they would pay under the current Medicare system.” [CBO, 4/5/11]
Republican Budget Would Almost Double Healthcare Costs For Seniors. “The Republican congressman’s proposal to privatize Medicare would mean a dramatic hike in U.S. healthcare costs for the elderly, an independent analysis finds. Seniors would pay almost double — more than $12,510 a year.” [Los Angeles Times, 4/7/11]
FACT CHECK: Paul Ryan Falsely Claims the House Republican Budget Won’t Ration Health Care
On Meet the Press, Republican Budget Chairman Paul Ryan falsely claimed that the “alternative” to his House Republican budget is a “rationing scheme.”
In reality, the House Republican budget could lead to rationing of health care for seniors.
FACT CHECK:
Republican Budget Will Lead to “Rationing.” As NPR reported, the CBO warned that higher payments could affect care as beneficiaries might be less likely to use “new, costly, but possibly beneficial, technologies and techniques.” According to NPR, that is “exactly the sort of rationing that so frightened Republicans when they were fighting the health law – the health law that Ryan’s proposal would repeal, by the way.” [NPR, 4/6/11]
GOP Would Lead to “Greater Limits” on American’s Health Care Coverage. The Wall Street Journal reported that Republican plan would lead to “greater limits” on coverage for many Americans. According to the newspaper, “The House Republican plan for overhauling Medicare would fundamentally change how the federal government pays for health care … likely resulting in higher out-of-pocket costs and greater limits to coverage for many Americans.” [Wall Street Journal, 4/6/11]
Joe Baker, president of the Medicare Rights Center, said that “to ask people with Medicare and Medicaid to foot the entire bill is not only unfair, but it will eventually lead to much less care and a type of rationing.” “There’s no doubt that putting more costs on consumers, particularly upfront, leads them to access less care.” [National Journal, 4/04/11]
Americans Would Have “Forgo Treatment” Under the GOP Plan. The New York Times reported that the elderly, the poor and the disabled may have to “forgo treatment” under the Republican plan. According to the newspaper, “Mr. Ryan would largely privatize Medicare starting in 2022…The real result is that the most vulnerable — the elderly, the poor, the disabled — will have to pay more for care or forgo treatment.” [New York Times Editorial, 4/5/11]
FACT CHECK: Paul Ryan Falsely Claims Republicans Are Addressing Debt
On Meet The Press, Republican Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (WI-01) falsely claimed that his budget gets serious about reducing the debt, saying “if we don’t get serious about these issues, if we don’t get serious about the drivers of our debt, we’re going to have a debt crisis.”
In reality, Representative Paul Ryan and House Republicans voted overwhelmingly for a plan that would increase the debt by $8 trillion according to the independent Congressional Budget Office (CBO). The New York Times said, “The deficit is a serious problem, but the [House Republican budget] is not a serious answer.”
FACT CHECK
CBO: Debt Rises During First 10 Years of GOP’s Plan. According to an initial analysis by the CBO, they found that by the end of the 10 year budget window, public debt would actually be higher under the Ryan plan. CBO projected under current law the debt would balloon to 67 percent of GDP by 2022; under Ryan’s plan, the CBO expects it to rise to 70 percent. [Congressional Budget Office, 4/5/11; The Atlantic, 4/6/11]
National Debt Increases $8 Trillion Under GOP Budget. Under Ryan’s plan, the national debt would still increase $8 trillion over the coming decade to $23 trillion. [Roll Call, 4/06/11]
Conservatives Angered. “Rep. Jim Jordan, chairman of the conservative Republican Study Committee, praised the effort but said he plans to put out his own plan later this week to balance the budget within a decade. Ryan’s budget doesn’t eliminate the deficit until the late 2030s.” [Roll Call, 4/6/11]
EDITORIAL: GOP Budget isn’t a “Serious Answer” to the Deficit Problem. “The deficit is a serious problem, but the Ryan plan is not a serious answer.” [New York Times, Editorial, 4/6/11]
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By: lori on May 22, 2011
at 9:54 AM
I did find what I believe to be the original source of the information I posted.
http://www.examiner.com/bay-area-moderate-conservative-in-san-francisco/democrats-conveniently-forget-january-3-2007
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 9:48 AM
No One’s Puppet, and the bitch goes down..thanks for playing 3 down. Tried to play nice..forget our past, but the true you just had to come out in the end. You are dismissed.
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 9:46 AM
I agree about checking sources, NOP.
That’s why if a web site says something, I look for the original source which usually is a publication like the New York Times etc.
“Punked”might be a little strong. What I found supports the charge that Republicans albeit half heartedly tried to persuade Democrats to agree to more closely watch Fannie and Freddie. I also showed that tax cuts have been associated with improved economic activity.
Of course, it is possible one didn’t cause the other. Its also possible the Republican attempts to improve regulation were intended more to cover themselves after the crash than to actually change the system.
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By: James on May 22, 2011
at 9:42 AM
NOAH PUNKED HIMSELF! James, never believe anything on the Internet that you cannot independently verify.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 22, 2011
at 9:05 AM
Raji , very well stated post, hope to see more posts from you.
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 9:03 AM
Bill Clinton appeared on The View as the economy took its plunge. He said Democrats should have agreed to more regulation of a credit mess which was spiraling out of control. Clinton said he tried to persuade them but he didn’t try hard enough. It sounded a little self-serving, but he did admit they worried about a potential problem.
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By: James on May 22, 2011
at 8:55 AM
Good points Ragi and Pfessor. Thanks Pfessor. I’d like to see the Elizabeth Warren video.
Republicans did warn about potential problems with the system, but like Democrats, they had in interest in home ownership, because they thought it would give more people a tangible interest in the well-being of our economy.
Omaha radio station KFAB has an investment show on the air now. You might be able to hear the whole thing on the station’s web site.
They said after the Bush tax cuts in 2003, federal revenue went up faster than in any time in history. Money from millionaires rose from $132 billion to $236 billion in two years. The moderators said it happens because when taxes go up too fast, millionaires and others alter their behavior to avoid the taxes.
In 1932, Hoover raised taxes from 25% to 65%. Revenues fell from $831 billion to $427 billion in 1932 and $353 billion in 1933. After a slow recovery, Roosevelt raised taxes in 1937, and the double dip depression began.
Coolidge cut taxes almost every year after 1921, and the economy boomed until late in the decade.
In 1945, Congress cut taxes during the Truman administration, and the economy prospered. The Kennedy tax cuts of 1960 and Reagan’s cuts produced similar effects.
Taxes rose in 1993, and the GDP rose slower than it had. A later tax cut including one on capital gains came before a 154% revenue increase and signaled the beginning of the Clinton “boom.”
I have read some of this before. Some was in college classes I took. I also assume the show would not blatantly lie for obvious reasons. However, I don’t have time to find specific citations to verify what the men said.
I’m sure Lori doesn’t read what I write any more than someone else who embarrassed himself because he didn’t read my post. My guess is she is a TRUE BELIEVER with an atrophied capacity for political critical thinking. She will never read this, even with big print, so it will remain our little secret.
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By: James on May 22, 2011
at 8:47 AM
lori –
You know, you can see a variety of opinions here. People think critically and concede points well-made by their opponents. Most accept valid criticism of candidates or officials in their party and concede that they make mistakes. I wouldn’t categorize anybody here as a zombie or puppet or as a credulous dupe.
That is, anybody but you. I have a question for you:
Do you EVER think about anything critically, or do you just have a wire that goes into your hypothalamus that pulses: “DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, DEMOCRAT, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, PROGRESSIVE, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST, SOCIALIST?
I mean, seriously, do you EVER think critically at all?
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By: PFesser on May 22, 2011
at 8:03 AM
Sorry about your loss, words fail.
Great post.
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By: Randy on May 22, 2011
at 7:58 AM
It’s beginning to look more and more like Mittens Kittens is going to be the man to beat.. I’ll take those odds!
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By: lori on May 22, 2011
at 7:52 AM
Oh boy more good news for us…!!!! 2 weeks in a row of good news.. CHEERS! 😉
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/22/mitch-daniels-president-2012_n_865185.html
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By: lori on May 22, 2011
at 7:48 AM
James –
There is a great video of Elizabeth Warren explaining the boom/bust cycles extending back past the Tulip Bubble of (1624?), right up to the 1930’s and how enactment of Glass-Steagall and other reforms completely put an end to all of that. There are so many of her on YouTube I can’t find the exact one or I’d post the URL.
She goes on to explain how the economic bubble/bust cycle was under control until Congress and various presidents began dismantling those laws in the ‘eighties and beyond. There is plenty of blame to go around, both Democrat and ReBiblican alike. Clinton actually played a large part, and so did both houses of Congress. The Repubs especially, but Dems too, bowed to the pressures from Wall Street, which assured them, “It’s different this time.”
Yep. It’s different. This time they really sunk the damned ship.
Re: Barney Frank and his ilk. I believe it was Herbert Spencer who said, “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.” When our government, in another of its great social experiments, started shielding the banks from folly, they began taking unreasonable chances with people they KNEW couldn’t repay mortgage and other loans, and here we are. Guess who ultimately pays the bill for THEIR folly? You and I. Same for folks who continue to build along the coast, and the companies who insure them, all secure in the knowledge that the govt will ultimately bail them out if a storm bankrupts the company. I think this housing mess is the ultimate example of what happens when the govt meddles in the private sector and distorts supply, demand and risk, but of course, it’s different THIS time.
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By: PFesser on May 22, 2011
at 7:48 AM
The Dow Jones Industrial Average is used by the MSM to indicated the general state of the economy to the public. The Dow consists of 30 stocks. The S&P500 is actually the more accurate indicator. However to the general public it is more newsworthy to broadcast a rise or decline of several hundred points in the Dow than a 30 or 40 points in the S&P.
“Wall Street” is a global financial industry and it’s health is not related to who is in control of our government be it democrats or republicans. At one time “Wall Street” did have checks and balances but the overseeing of it by the Securities and Exchange commission was downgraded during the Clinton era.
The Clinton economy basked in the glory of the “Tech Bubble”. The rise and fall of Silicon Valley should have been a warning that Wall Street was an uncontrolled industry that could effect the economy of this nation. Bailing out GM is a much easier project than bailing out Wall Street. IMO Bush basically ignored the potential undercurrents that eventually created the tsunami called the “housing bubble”. MSM prefers to accuse Bush for creating this situation by encouraging the idea of a house for everyone.
Wall Street didn’t need much encouragement! The greed was too great. Unsecured packaged mortgages created great wealth for the financial district and the resulting tsunami destroyed our nations economy with no help from Bush or Obama or Congress. The health of the global financial family within survived intact even though they let some of the partners (Lehman Brothers) fall by the wayside.
One can google and read all the facts and figures and twist them in any direction one wishes but the main point I am making is that during the past decade or so Wall Street has become a wealthy “Global” industry answering to no higher power.
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By: Raji on May 22, 2011
at 7:43 AM
Pfessor, the minister who started this said “no comment.” During the 1920’s a church congregation in our area sold their possessions and waited on a tall hill to be taken home. They stayed, of course and needed the kindness of neighbors to survive. They all moved away because they were so embarrassed.
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By: James on May 22, 2011
at 7:38 AM
I don’t have time to look it up, but I remember Senator McCain and some Republicans cosigned a letter requesting the Democratic leadership to do something about Fannie and Freddie.
I already quoted a study which showed the stimulus was accompanied by a net private jobs loss, though governments gained employment.
Newsbusters is a conservative site, but since many linked here are liberal, fair is fair.
They linked to a Dan Gainor and Warren Anderson study of 2005. “Hit job: Networks Emphasize Layoffs in a year of 2 Million New Jobs.” More than two million new jobs were created in 2005, but the three networks emphasized negatives such as corporate layoffs, and outsourcing in more than half of the stories on unemployment.
Many of the jobs paid lower wages than those lost, but that is also true now. Obama touted 60.000 new McDonalds’ jobs as a sign of the recovery.
Earlier, I cited a New York Times article describing the government’s rising revenue in 2005.
Friday’s USA Today printed a story by Dennis Cauchon. “nearly two years after the economic recovery officially began, job creation continues to stagger at the slowest post-recession rate since the Great Depression.”
In the past, the economy recovered lost jobs 13 months on average after a recession. If this were a typical recession, nearly 10 million more people would be working today than when the recession officially ended in June 2009.
The housing collapse and productivity gains in factories have made it hard for the economy to absorb workers without a college degree and young people generally, according the the CEO of Kelly temp workers.
The FDR’s nostrums did not take us from Depression, though there were some bright spots. Our economy did not truly improve until during and after WW11.
NOP, I don’t begrudge Obama his golf games because as we know thanks to communication, the President cannot escape the office. I do begrudge the double standard. Bush was criticized for his frequent trips to the ranch. Both needed time to unwind.
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By: James on May 22, 2011
at 7:33 AM
“heaven for climate, hell for company! – Twain
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By: PFesser on May 22, 2011
at 7:08 AM
It was a busy evening with damaging storms near by and our graduation parties. My wife gets invited to many of her students graduation parties. There will more partying this afternoon, and I have other work to do, so I can’t spend much time with research. I remember Noah’s original post.
Here is a smoking gun.
“Business Day” published by the New York Times on September 11, 2003 discussed the housing issue. Stephen Labaton wrote “The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago. Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.
The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac– which together have issued more that $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt— is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae doesn’t adequately hedge against rising interest rates.
“There is a general recognition that the supervisory system for housing-related government-sponsored enterprises eight has the tools, nor the stature to deal effectively with the current size, complexity and importance of this enterprise” Treasury Secretary Snow told the House Financial Services Committee …
Fannie and Freddie endorsed a large part of the proposal.
Michael Oxley chairman of the Financial Services Committee said “We have seen in recent months that mismanagement and questionable accounting practices went largely unnoticed by the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight” the independent agency that now regulates the companies. “These irregularities which have been going on for several years should have been detected earlier by the regulator.”
Earlier, “the companies and their allies beat back efforts for tougher oversight by the Treasury Department…Supporters of the companies said efforts to regulate the lenders tightly… might diminish their ability to finance loans for lower-income families. This year, however chances of passing legislation to tighten the oversight are better than in the past.
“These two entities–Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not facing any kind of financial crisis” said representative Barney frank of Massachusetts, the ranikng democrat on the Financial Services Committee. “the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina agreed. “I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing” Mr. Watt said.
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By: James on May 22, 2011
at 7:01 AM
It looks like the Rapture was a dud.
Shit. And I was hoping to get rid of Sarah Palin, James Dobson and the Right Reverend Pat Robertson in one swell foop.
My wife tells me there is a blog somewhere with a picture of all the souls in ascent, with everybody still on the ground dancing, applauding and celebrating their departures. Wish I could find that.
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By: PFesser on May 22, 2011
at 7:00 AM
No One’s Puppet, aside from your complete lack of character, cowardly avoiding any response of any merit, dumping the nice spirit that was starting as your kind usually does when challenged, I am trying to make sense of a post that seems to me to be made during a full fledged stroke.
this conglomeration has been published as if it was an original Blog
Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you attempting to say I posted it as my own creation?
And this particular comment, hairball, that so many facts dispute,
What are the “facts” disputing? Furthermore how does a fact make a dispute in the first case. I can only imagine that being in mid stroke caused your sentences to be formed in this odd manor. Please clarify.
You sir are a fool, if you thought someone here would address your foolishness without verifying if there was any basis in fact.
What research? What sources are you quoting. What have you put forth and what have you proved in this abortion of a post? So far nothing.
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By: Noah on May 22, 2011
at 6:37 AM
Noah, thought I take another stab at it, I Googled the whole thing, this conglomeration has been published as if it was an original Blog on more websites than the 9-11 conspiracy theories. And this particular comment, hairball, that so many facts dispute, “Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy, but no one was listening),” dead give away.
You sir are a fool, if you thought someone here would address your foolishness without verifying if there was any basis in fact. What do you think this is? Fox News?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 11:35 PM
I look forward to see the results of your research. To be honest I cannot imagine the point you are going to make with these small errors, but I will wait to see what pans out.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 11:08 PM
No, but the fact is that they are off, and yes the DOW was 12474, so we are on the same page, but I do recall that incident a couple of weeks ago concerning Planned Parenthood, where the facts were off by 90%, and when found out, oh it wasn’t suppose to be factual. I’m not going to work in a vacuum with Glen Beck’s facts, or Hannity’s or Rush’s.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 10:08 PM
January 3 was when they won control.
the dow jones Industrial average gained 11 points to close at 12,474. The Nasdaq rose more than seven points to close at 2,423.
I hope for the sake of conversation that you are not going to try and dismiss the arguments based on trivial issues such as June 4th vs the 3rd and a couple hundred points on the dow.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 9:33 PM
Well Noah, I started doing some research, and I think for starters, you have the wrong date, I think the date the new Congress met and chairmen took over was Jan 4, 2007. And with just a brief looking over some of your other facts aren’t going to check out, such as the DOW. So while I’m doing my research, you might want to do your own. I’m not real happy with what I can get off the Internet and don’t want to spend the money to pay a news archive service, then find out I still need other sources, so I’ll probably hit the library. If that doesn’t work as well as I want, as a resident, I should be able to do my research at the university library.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 9:00 PM
As a person. I can find no fault with Obama. 100% my issues are ideological and policy based.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 8:35 PM
No One’s Puppet please feel free to do your research. I first posted that probably 6 months ago. While I do not recollect where i got it I typically will not post something unless I find it checks out.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 8:34 PM
I do want to say one more thing, you never have nor will you ever, hear Barack Obama make a derogatory remark about George W. Bush, you hear us, his supporters do that. Quite frankly, we don’t have the self control that the President has, I really admire him for it. I volunteered on the 2008 campaign for him, and like every other volunteer, I was told, if I was overheard making a derogatory remark against his opponent, I would be sent home and I would not be welcome back.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 8:03 PM
Noah, I am going to answer you on this, but first I am going to independently research your statements, because quite frankly I do not trust your sources, which incidentally you didn’t mention. And I also want to know what else was going on in this country and internationally at the time. But I might remind you, J. Joe is correct their were two wars going on the credit card and the tax break dried up funds. In addition, we were beginning to come off the housing bubble. Yes you hung in there with us today, you deserve an answer, but I want to make sure, I can give you the most complete and reasonable explanation possible, so give me some time. I do recall at the time when jobs were being created under Bush, commentators very nervous, because the bulk of the jobs being created were minimum wage.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 7:53 PM
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/05/20/bernstein_taxes
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 7:24 PM
delurkergurl, no surprise there, her only opinion are those she can copy and paste from others. Joe I had held out hope for you that you might just be the one to step up. Of the 3 I gave you the edge for being the one to at least make an attempt. 2 down 1 to go.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 7:16 PM
Good Night Noah – It has been a hard day for you.
Enjoy your evening – watch some Beck and Rush to settle down. Watch the Caliphate episode with Beck – that one is always fun.
You could also think of the next two wars we need to take on – that is always a fun thing to do for a conservative on a Saturday night.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 7:01 PM
Noah: Two wars were going full bore – WITHOUT BEING PAID FOR, when the Dems took over. THE TAX BREAKS FOR THE WEALTHIEST HAD BEEN GOING ON SINCE 2000, without being paid for. The Prescription Drug policy, with no way to negotiate for a lower price, was already set BY BUSH AND HIS TEAM!
So, the economy is set on auto pilot for disaster and the Dems get to sit in the backseat and watch the collision a little closer than they had been allowed before.
I might add, there were some Blue Dog Dems that made things worse by voting Republican.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 6:54 PM
p.s. James and Pfesser I have not seen you once shy from a topic or be afraid to admit to being wrong when the rare occasion occurred. Give these 3 a bit of time to respond on their own integrity before riding the coattails of your response.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 6:52 PM
Joe, you aren’t going to convince anyone who doesn’t understand math that there’s no truth to the “more than the past 43 presidents combined” thing. Facts are noise. Chance are it isn’t the truth that’s being sought anyway. Just chill – it’s a beautiful day and nobody can take that from you. Apparently not even the faux-rapture.
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By: delurkergurl on May 21, 2011
at 6:52 PM
Once again credibility check. If you are so sure you are right, and I am talking to JuneauJoe, No One’s Puppet, delurkergurl, and delurkergurl, James and Pfesser you are welcome to give an opinion as well. But you 3 specifically have never once stepped up to the plate and answered to this post. I have not ducked anything, lets see if you are up for the same. So far of you regulars not one has ever once attempted to address any of these fine points. I hope you 3 in particular have the ability to answer to some very tough facts.
The day the democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009 it was actually January 3rd 2007 the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, the start of the 110th Congress. The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.
For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is “Bush’s Fault”, think about this:
January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress:
At the time:
1. The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
2. The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
3. The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
4. George Bush’s Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!
Remember the day…
1. January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.
2. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?
BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
3. Thank Congress for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment to this CRISIS by dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fiasco’s!
(BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy, but no one was listening).
And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac?
OBAMA
And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie??
OBAMA and the Democratic Congress
So when someone tries to blame Bush…
REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007…. THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!
” Bush may have been in the car, but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal and steering wheel they were driving. Set the record straight on Bush!
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 6:46 PM
Rachel Maddow and Naomi Kline: The Shock Doctrine in practice.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 6:36 PM
Noah: The downturn which Bush faced compared to the economic DISASTER WHICH PRESIDENT OBAMA FACED cannot be compared. The comparison of FDR and the GREAT DEPRESSION is more like the enormous melt-down which President Obama faced.
THE ENORMOUS DEFICIT IS MOSTLY GW BUSH’S. Wars and tax breaks on credit cards caused the deficit which we now face.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 6:09 PM
PFesser , I remember clearly the end of the Clinton years. It was November, and economists were predicting a bad recession. 2 months into Bush’s presidency we got that recession. I am by no stretch a fan of GW’s policies. But at some point Obama has to put the big boy pants on and take some responsibility for where we are at.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 5:54 PM
Noah, I think you are starting to get the picture, you don’t like it, but you are getting it. This is the reason we still talk about George W. Bush, believe me, we would love to just let it go, but until this mess is cleaned up, you will still hear us bring up his name.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 5:45 PM
Fact, in 2008 the deficit was $450 billion
Fact, Obama ran up $1.4 trillion of debt in his first year.
Fact, deficits of the size Bush ran are basically sustainable indefinitely; deficits of the size that Obama has run to date and is apparently planning to run, aren’t.
At what point in his presidency is Obama actually responsible for any bad thing that happens? 2-years? 3-years? 5-years? Can we pick a date for when bad things that happen on Obama’s watch are actually in some measure the responsibility of Obama, rather than Bush?
If you are going to still blame Bush for all the bad things that are going on today, then you have to give him credit for all the good things that are going on as well, you cannot have it both ways.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 5:43 PM
Noah –
I think NOP et al are absolutely right. Bush did two wars and a massive entitlement off the books, effectively destroying the great economy left to him by Clinton. Bo walked into a room full of shit up to his neck and none of it his doing. I am very irritated by all the money-printing, but the only way to get out of a recession is to work your way out and you can’t do that if the economy shuts down and nobody is working. Now he gets the blame for the inflation, which was an unavoidable consequence of printing the money to keep that economy running. It is in no way fair.
Not for a minute do I think Bo is not royally pissed at having to clean up the mud. I am extremely unhappy at the way Bo and his buds Pelosi and Reid shoved the ABSOLUTELY WRONG health care down everybody’s throats and I won’t forget that, but for my money, the goddamned sanctimonious ReBiblicans could stop worrying about people’s vaginas for a minute or two and grab a mop. It’s their boy’s mess.
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By: PFesser on May 21, 2011
at 5:43 PM
Noah, Big fella:
If Bush put all of the wars, prescriptions and tax breaks for the wealthiest on credit cards – left office and THERE WAS A BIG BALANCE on the Charge Card when President Obama took office – WHO HAD TO PAY FOR THE BILL RUN UP BY GW BUSH!
Noah: Most of the deficit was created by GW Bush!!!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 5:27 PM
Noah – Are you saying that GW Bush paid for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as they were being fought? The tax cuts for the wealthiest paid for themselves? Is that what you are saying?
I just read where GM is paying off the Billions they got from their bailout. That happens to be many thousands of jobs saved. The banks screwed us over big but GW BUSH handed out the first 700 Billion with no ability to track the money. De-regulation of the banks let them hand out loans with no job verification and then went under – go figure. They then insisted that they get a bail out from the government and got it.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 5:23 PM
Joe…my dear child. We get it kiddo. War bad..war made on credit..bad..we get it. But if you get your little rocks off on saying it 25 times a day..you just go for it tiger.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 5:00 PM
ok sure live in your delusion all you like. I can’t help you find your way back to reality. Health care paid for itself. Bailing out the banks and the financial sector paid for itself. If you feel Everyone but Obama has added to the deficit then I cant help you.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 4:58 PM
The deficit at a glance:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/08/deficit_numbers.html
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By: delurkergurl on May 21, 2011
at 4:48 PM
We are paying interest on interest from the Bush administration, of course the deficit keeps going up. That isn’t Obama’s fault.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 4:39 PM
If you consider the present deficit. Look at the cost of the Iraq War, Afghanistan War, Tax Breaks for the wealthiest and Prescription Drugs for the elderly – NONE OF WHICH WERE PAID FOR, they were all put on credit cards: BY GW BUSH!!!!
8 years of that and de-regulation adds up to a major deficit, which we face today!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 3:55 PM
Please read about FDR and Hoover. FDR got a depression and he had to spend to get people working and starting up the economy.
Hoover was saying – austerity – Austerity.
FDR brought our country back by public works and investment in people.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 3:41 PM
So to you it doesn’t make any difference that during Obama’s reign that he has added more to the national debt than the last 43 Presidents combined? That is our kids and grand kids money..on their credit.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 3:33 PM
Noah: I bought a new Cadillac on your credit. I ut 80,000 miles on it. I got in a couple of wrecks, ran it in the crash and smack derby and then gave you the keys after it went off the cliff when I was drunk, You still owed $35,000) on it.
I walked away and said, Hey, it is yours, I just used it a little bit. It is still in great shape.
That is what Bush did for and to President Obama.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 3:30 PM
Didn’t you know..it is still all Bush’s fault..just ask Joe..he’ll tell you. Doesn’t matter Obama is in his 3rd year..Bush is still calling the shots it seems
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 3:11 PM
Tax Cuts for the wealthiest 1%, Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan WERE BUSH IDEAS!!!!
They are the biggest drivers of our deficit. De-regulation (another Bush Idea) allowed Corporations to send jobs overseas and rob us blind. De-regulation ultimately caused the crash of the economy, which President Obama had to deal with.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 3:07 PM
In my post about Bush and what the economy was like and the Democrats who held the purse strings and who they appointed to the two areas that fell apart to create the problems we have today sum it up perfectly. End of the day, Liberals who hate Bush would still hate him even if Jesus himself declared him good.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 2:57 PM
This might be a fairer evaluation of Bush’s first year in office. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/653153/posts
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 2:31 PM
So a couple of hours of golf here and there is an issue, sometimes you just have to clear your head, right? In the interest of fairness, a list of George W. Bush’s presidential accomplishments.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Politicians/Bush_accomplishments.html
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 2:17 PM
Oh My, REPUBLICANS LIED???? It actually costs more to put people in Private Prisons than state prisons. Imagine – Republicans were wrong??? How can this be?
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/593506/surprise,_republicans_lied_to_us:_private_prisons_don't_save_money/
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 2:08 PM
Shash we basically agree. I would also prefer Romney of the two and for the same reasons.
NOP, I don’t take “cutting brush” as a slam against Bush. I agree with you about the rest but with a joke: Obama was golfing.
A severe thunderstorm has developed southwest of us, and it had a tornado fifteen minutes ago. I think it will move a few miles northwest of us, but it is my job to spot these things. Assuming the weather cooperates, we will be attending two graduation parties. Bye.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 2:05 PM
Rocky sure, but he had eight years, what did he accomplish?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 2:05 PM
As far as difficult Presidential starts go, I think GW Bush had a bit of a hard start. Resession within his first two months, 9-11 after that.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 2:02 PM
It is important to know that our president hasn’t been twiddling his thumbs or whacking brush, in between speeches, meetings, and foreign visits. Don’t take that as a slam against Bush, but we all know he was not a hands on kind of administrator, and history might even prove that to be a good thing.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 1:08 PM
Interesting talk about Koch, Chamber of Commerce and their impact on politics.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 1:08 PM
Thanks for your thoughts on Pawlenty James. I see him as a bit similar to Romney too, but politically, I prefer Romney. Maybe because of his business background and the fact that he doesn’t wear his religion on his sleeve.
That said. I do also think Obama has done a good job with what he’s been handed. A bit slow on a couple of things but I do get the picture that he does indeed listen to public sentiment and not just the voices of those who yell the loudest.
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By: Shash on May 21, 2011
at 12:54 PM
I read the sites while eating dinner, so I may have missed some things.
It is an interesting list of accomplishments though if the definition of achievement was tighter, many would be cited as hopes and aspirations. Banning the importation of pythons and extending the Petrified Forest National Monument were good. So was saving part of our auto industry.
Someone wrote in the comments section that stopping production of the F-22 might be a mistake. It’s not being used in the Mid East wars has nothing to do with our needing it in a possible war with Russia, China or another country. Some are negative accomplishments. Canceling the missile sites in Poland etc after those governments agreed to the deal after some political risk to themselves may also be a mistake. Their intent was to stop missiles from Iran or another such country. Iran has been test firing missiles which can reach Europe.
Others were optimistic for the mid term elections. Blacks would turn out in force to help Democrats maintain their majorities.
Speed reading is a wonderful skill.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 12:37 PM
Lincoln was facing an already split country, and Civil War seemed inevitable though it waited for a year. Political disintegration had already begun so he had to cope with that.
The bread lines, unrest, and economic contraction were already serious when FDR became president. I think the first year of the drought was in 1930 with an interruption and then the full force.
You’re right, the US wasn’t in the war until much later, but FDR had to cope with war which broke out in Europe and I believe Manchuria a few years after he became president. The evolving conflagration had already begun when FDR became president.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 12:21 PM
Part 5
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2010/10/president-obamas-244-accomplishments-part-5/
And of course he has done more since!
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 11:42 AM
Part4
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2010/10/president-obamas-244-accomplishments-part-4/
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 11:39 AM
Part 3
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2010/10/president-obamas-244-accomplishments-part-3/
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 11:38 AM
Part 2
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2010/10/president-obamas-244-accomplishments-part-2/
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 11:36 AM
James, you picked a couple of good examples, but were they facing all of those things on Day 1? As I recall we entered WWII 9 years later. I have a five part list of Obama’s accomplishments his first 20 months in office, I think everyone will be surprised.
Part 1
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2010/10/president-obamas-244-accomplishments/
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 11:35 AM
Dunnesbury already covered it Juneau Joe. A neighbor was giving away his property to Slackmyer. Maybe we will visit empty homes with our pickup truck and see what we can find.
I don’t need Rapture Day to show me I am a sinner. But I have a lot of fun.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 11:26 AM
Abraham Lincoln was elected in 1860, and his security staff feared for his safety because the South was so hostile to his election. The country had begun to fall apart. Southerners fired on Ft. Sumpter the following year.
FDR entered office with one of the worst depressions of the century combined with a farm disaster as drought created the “dirty thirties.” Dust blew to the east coast. Bread lines were common and vagabonds hitched rides on freight trains as they looked for work. One of the largest mass migrations in our history, called the Okies was beginning. Several groups on the right and left planned coups to take FDR. Wall Street businessmen planned to use the American Legion to persuade FDR to resign.
Of course we later fought a war for national survival.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 11:22 AM
On this Rapture Day:
Sarah Palin (and family?) should be gone later today since she is the queen of the Rapture crowd.
I wonder if she would mind if I used their boat to go fishing since they won’t need it any more? Heck, I wonder if Todd has a motorcycle which I could borrow since he won’t need it?
Just wondering.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 11:21 AM
Happy Rapture Day! If you are reading this – You are a sinner!
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2011/05/happy-rapture-day.html
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 11:18 AM
Republican Jesus:
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By: JuneauJoe on May 21, 2011
at 11:14 AM
Fair enough, NOP.
I attended several Tea Party demonstrations and saw no signs of racism. My cousins and I were not members of the movement, nor did we contribute any money or help. We were curious and wanted to be warm bodies.
Some blacks and Hispanics were in the crowd, and a black rapper entertained one group. If anything, the group over compensated and was especially nice to minorities. It is possible that had I attended a rally in another part of the country, the program would have featured a cross burning, though I doubt it.
Of course the movement has some racists. I’m describing the group as a whole.
The Tea Party has peaked now, but if you get the opportunity, would you consider an adventure into enemy territory? Attend one. The shamltzy founding fathers- patriotism etc could be off putting, but you might reach a conclusion similar to mine. The demonstrations are like high school pep rallies.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 11:10 AM
Can anyone, anyone at all, think of an American President, who had more crises laying on his desk the day he entered office than Barack Obama? Or one who has balanced and solved so of them as quickly and timely as Barack Obama and his administration?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 11:04 AM
The arrow of control I have is that it seems to be the Liberal mantra that you are a victim. Didn’t you know that because your black that you need us to defend you? The more an issue we make out of you being black, the more we can convince you that you are at a disadvantage so by default you need us, the Liberal, to defend you. Your gay, you need us to defend you. You are poor, you need us to defend you. You should not need to say the pledge in school, the aclu is here to defend you. Everything seems to be predicated on someone being victimized and the Liberals will somehow save the day. It serves only to pit one group against another for personal gain.
The race card is indeed real. It took no time at all for the issue of race to be brought up as soon as Obama was criticized about a variety of topics. Care was made to make sure it wasn’t the first objection but it always seemed to be in the top 3.
End of the day, 99.99% of anyone who is willing to be honest about why they feel as they do, racism comes down to cultural difference. They just do not understand why one group or another act as they do. It is this idea of political correctness and victimization that keep people from talking with and educating each other as to why one culture does things one way while other does it a different way.
Perfect example. Black people in my city, by enlarge, the car is the status symbol of choice. It says everything about you and how well you are doing in life. They will live in the worst neighborhoods, in a house that is falling apart, but being driving a 2-5 yr old Cadillac. Their kids are not getting enough to eat, going to some of the worst school systems in the district, but that car gets washed and waxed weekly. Outside appearances are everything to their peers. While I understand the background for their choice and what motivates them, I cannot understand the rationalization. It comes into direct conflict with my belief system. If you were to ask the kids, they might say they wish their was more food, but look at our car, and we all have cell phones.
While I cannot fully wrap my mind around it, I do my best not to fault them because it is their life to live as they see fit. Where I feel I have the right to take issue is when these lifestyle choices cause them to have to be subsidized by our tax dollars. My motto, live however you want as long as you are self sufficient and do not harm those around you.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 10:57 AM
Bias and discrimination exist within groups. Blacks for example sometimes look down on their darker skinned bretheren.
Ethnic groups as apparently similar as Dutch, Germans and British farm differently from each other. Bohemians farm as large family groups. The Dutch tend to raise more livestock and the eldest son usually inherits the farm.
The Lakota Sioux were culturally more like the early European settlers than to many other Indian tribes. Like us, they were new to the plains. They were empire builders and they trained some of the best horsemen in the history of the world. The Black Hills were their sacred ground after they took them from another tribe.
As PFessor wrote we joked about two presidents in the same party because one has a known record and the other is still learning on the job. Race had nothing to do with it, though some people seem to be conditioned to see issues in racial terms because of long term racial references.
I mentioned Herman Cain as someone who might make a good Republican candidate, though he seems too conservative for me. He was in Council Bluffs last night, and apparently he earned several standing ovations. These were mostly conservative white people cheering a black man.
Conservatives are not so much better than liberals. Intense scrutiny and criticism have conditioned them to be more circumspect.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 10:54 AM
I will take what you said, under advisement James, but you haven’t entirely convinced me. Particularly when you start saying the Tea Party isn’t racist, I have a real problem with that.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 10:43 AM
On Assumptions: an oldie but goodie. My brother was a supervisor at Dow Chemical in the ‘eighties and shared this with me. I thought I could scrape this up somewhere…
THE PLAN
In the beginning was the plan and then came the assumptions and the assumptions were without form and the plan was completely without substance and darkness was on the face of the workers and they spoke amongst themselves, saying,
“It is a crock of shit and it stinketh” and the workers went unto their supervisors and sayeth,
“It is a pail of dung and none may abide the odor thereof” and the supervisors went unto the managers and sayeth unto them,
“It is a container of excrement and it is very strong, such that none may abide it” and the managers went unto their directors and sayeth,
“It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide its strength” and the directors spoke amongst themselves, saying one to another,
“It contains that which aids plant growth, and it is very strong” and the directors went unto the vice presidents and sayeth unto them,
“It promotes growth and is very powerful” and the vice presidents went unto the president and sayeth unto him,
“This new plan will actively promote the growth and efficiency of this company, and these areas in particular” and the president looked upon the plan, and saw that it was good, and the plan became policy,
This is “how shit happens.”
And how Assumptions without foundation lead one astray.
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By: PFesser on May 21, 2011
at 10:42 AM
I agree with the race card definition in the link alaskapi. An example is the charge of racism against the Tea Party movement. Though they denied it, Democratic leaders knew the Tea Party protests were sufficiently powerful to change the election. As good politicians, they used the “race card” to discredit and cost the movement support. It failed because their critics found little proof of racism.
A group planted “Muslims” among NASCAR audiences in hope finding a racist reaction, and it failed.
Such tactics are intended to stop discussion of race and class and to discredit “enemy” groups. That is what I mean by “race card.”
I agree a degree of racism is built into all of us. I also agree culture, gender and class are at least as important in defining our identities, attitudes and values as race. We need to discuss our differences more than we have.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 10:35 AM
.
NOP –
“Oh dear, I hate to admit it, but mostly I agree with Noah, but that still doesn’t explain to me why anyone would joke about replacing a competent black president with a white one from the same political party.”
a) I’m not joking.
b) I would categorize Bo as marginally competent, but a fast learner.
c) The black/white thing is YOUR construct, nobody else’s. That is exactly the point: Why didn’t you focus on any of a dozen other things like marital fidelity, pretty children, a nice wife, experience in governance (most of which admittedly have no bearing – the same as race has no bearing). No, you went straight for the race card. I can justify my POV easily; I went for a known quantity (Clinton) with experience and a proven track record. You went for race. Don’t you see that the problem is in your own head?
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By: PFesser on May 21, 2011
at 10:26 AM
I happen to agree with alaskapi, class and economic means are more defining than culture and skin tone. To a degree we are all racists, whatever our ethnicity, since we have to first first define our own place in the world, therefore, unless we hate ourselves, on a subconscious level we naturally assume our group, our culture, is superior. But a majority people, can’t prove this, but I hope it is true, are introspective enough, to question our own “truths.” If you have the advantage of knowing people with different backgrounds, that process can happen at a very young age. And for overt racists, it almost never happens, it is a little bit like saying, “you can’t love another, until you love yourself.”
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 9:58 AM
I’m just in love with everyone this weekend. 😉
Calling ALL NY residents PLEASE don’t forget to vote Tuesday! It matters!!!!
Keep working keep pushing keep believing….. YES WE CAN!
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By: lori on May 21, 2011
at 9:29 AM
James-
If we take this as a starting point or basic definition of ‘race card’:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_card
I simply disagree with you. Shutting down conversation where people disagree whether race plays a part in the issues by lumping any such discussion as ‘playing the race card’ is the general use of the term.
If you mean something else, please explain.
I have worked for many years here, quite a bit in the last 3, on Alaska Native issues. I am at odds with not only the larger mostly white population but also the powers-that-be in the Native population.
Here culture is huge on the horizon as a factor in problems but all too many conversations derail entirely in notions of race. Race plays an important part but class stands most in the way of parity and dignity at the table for all Alaskans.
The interplay amongst all is where we live.
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By: alaskapi on May 21, 2011
at 9:27 AM
Let’s be a part of the solution… LOL I love my President. 😉
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/05/21/weekly-address-reforming-no-child-left-behind-year
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By: lori on May 21, 2011
at 9:26 AM
Good news to us progressives!!!!1 I love this woman!
NY 26 –
Yesterday, Democratic candidate Kathy Hochul stopped by Spillo’s restaurant on the outskirts of Buffalo to speak with voters. When asked by ThinkProgress if she would consider cutting oil tax subsidies, Hochul said “absolutely” because oil companies “are doing just fine without” subsidies.
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By: lori on May 21, 2011
at 9:23 AM
Beam me up, Scotty. There’s no intelligent life down here.
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By: poolman on May 21, 2011
at 9:16 AM
And of course, I always have to me, I guess, I left out one never. Must have an issue with negatives. I’m off to see if anyone on the other side of the world has been raptured yet.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 9:07 AM
Oh dear, I hate to admit it, but mostly I agree with Noah, but that still doesn’t explain to me why anyone would joke about replacing a competent black president with a white one from the same political party. I am in the unique position, where I know whites, who have met a black person and blacks, who have never a white person. Makes life interesting.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2011
at 9:04 AM
The race card exists. It has possibly unwittingly been, but still used against several of us on this message board. Liberals and conservatives harbor racial and non- racial negative stereotypes which some use to judge the other side. Most of us don’t realize we are doing it.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 9:03 AM
alaskapi –
Well-spoken, incisive analysis. That I believe is the kind of understanding that will let us quit talking past each other and talk TO each other so we can start compromising and actually *solve* some problems.
While we are all arguing the liberal/conservative thing, the Chinese and others just shake their heads, laugh at us and cruise right by. You know what the immortal Pogo said. He was right on the money.
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By: PFesser on May 21, 2011
at 8:59 AM
Liberals use the race card because it works. Over use is diluting it, though it is still a good weapon when all else fails.
Our daughter is a therapist who works with mostly young people forced to see her as a condition of their retaining their freedom. She could tell stories similar to Noah’s. Another of her clients was killed. That makes three so far this year.
Race is only one form of prejudice. For example, some people refuse to acknowledge anything good could come from the Bush administration.
The Washington Times reports that “WikiLeaks bolsters argument for ‘enhanced interrogation tactics.” The organization released classified records of the Guantanamo Bay prison files and State Department cables to expose what Julian Assange calls American corruption.
The records show that intelligence taken from CIA detainees helped lead us to Osama bin Laden, and it helped disrupt some follow-up attacks which were planned for after 9/11. Much of what we know of the terrorist organizations came from Guantanamo.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 8:53 AM
Noah- this is the first comment you’ve made which has any meat or sense in it.
I would propose that it is race, culture, and class which affect the experience of Americans of color.
http://www.timwise.org/2010/08/with-friends-like-these-who-needs-glenn-beck-racism-and-white-privilege-on-the-liberal-left/
I agree with Tim Wise that the phony color-blindness routine has created a whole new set of problems and that color-blindness crap comes from the left. I disagree that there is any “arrow of control” in it however. I think it is one of those failed thingies that people had great hope for which had unintended and bad consequences.
And quite frankly PFesser, there is no such thing as the race card. There are appropriate conversations about race which get shouted down all the time because fruitcakes like Al Sharpton have fallen into explaining everything via race differences. Not distinguishing the difference in other conversations about race from the fringe elements is the very thing so many conservatives abhor about others not distinguishing the likes of SP and Limbaugh et al . from themselves.
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By: alaskapi on May 21, 2011
at 8:43 AM
PFesser, I couldn’t agree more with you on the topic of race. My business, that I eventually ended up turning into a not for profit working with inner city kids, taught me a lot about the race issue. We use the term race when we really should be using the term culture. When you boil it down most people don’t have a problem with the skin color of a person, but more to the things in their culture that make them who they are.
I noticed when working with these kids that the things their parents taught them as children were different than what I was taught as a child. These inner city kids who were for the most part black, with a couple of Hispanics mixed in, would come visit my establishment and I started to take notice of certain trends. Through a series of tests I set up in my business I discovered that of the 8-16 yr olds that visited, some 50%-60% could not read an analog clock. some 40%-50% did not know their home address.
One time my wife came in and we had a talk about what she was going to do after her place of employment of 14 years closed its doors. She was deciding between two choices and I asked her which one would make her the happiest. After she left this boy named Bobby, about 12 yrs old, came up to me with a confused look on his face. He asked if that was my wife that I was taking too. I said yes it was, and he asked puzzled, why didn’t you just tell her what she was going to do? He could not comprehend that my wife had a choice. He could not understand why I wasn’t telling her what she was going to do and how it was going to be as the “man” of the house.
These kids are as smart as any kids I have seen anywhere, but academically they fail. For their age they have amazing skills to go out and “hussle” money. Not because they want a life of crime, but in 99% of cases to buy food for themselves because they are not getting enough from home or school. To them, it is not “if” they are going to jail, rather how long can they avoid it before it happens. It is a different world, a different way of life I find many outside it truly do not understand.
On the outside looking in I saw a bunch of thugs, mostly black, that I had a problem with. Upon spending 2 years in their community, getting to know them, getting to see the lives they lead, but more importantly why they lead them as they do, I started to understand it isn’t race but cultural differences. Some of it is who they are as a family and community unit, and some of it is their environment. I still shake my heads sometime at the choices they make but at least I understand what it is behind those choices that motivate them to do as they do. A choice that would be foolish in my world makes sense in theirs.
I put the blame with Liberals and their political correctness for making the topic of race taboo. For us to talk openly and freely about race removes a powerful arrow of control from their quiver. I have given the kids permission to ask me any question about white people that they want, nothing is off limits. At first they were hesitant but once they saw there were no repercussions the flood gates opened. In turn I asked them questions and in the months ahead we had many laughs about a thing they once took very seriously. We laid to rest many of the misconceptions they and I once held.
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By: Noah on May 21, 2011
at 7:46 AM
In honor of the rapture, I give you lines from War Games. (1983)
Colonel Joe Conley: This is Crystal Palace. Are you still on? Is anyone there?
Colonel Chase: That’s affirmative, sir.
Airman Dougherty: Yeah, we’re here! Jesus H. Christ! We’re still here!
Of course the day is still young…
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By: PFesser on May 21, 2011
at 6:30 AM
Shash, I know practically nothing about Tim Pawlenty, even though he comes from a neighboring state. He seems to be a good politician, and I agree with some of his opinions.
My main concern is his being an evangelical Christian. If the record shows his religious beliefs don’t especially influence his politics he should be able to able to counter attacks from his opponents. Otherwise, they will portray him as a religious extemist.
You know better than I, but it he does seem to be fairly sane for the current group of GOP possible candidates. Someone compared him to Romney.
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By: James on May 21, 2011
at 6:27 AM
“Those who can, go ahead and do. Those who can’t, sit at their computers and talk to themselves all day about it.”
Some even have so little life they post record-length, entirely off-topic lectures completely unrelated to any discussion at hand. Glad nobody does that here.
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By: PFesser on May 21, 2011
at 6:21 AM
“When James and PFesser, you concede the best eligible candidate for the office of President of the United States of America is Barack Obama, but you throw out the possibility of a constitutionality acceptable candidate of Bill Clinton, I hear, you calling for a “great white hope”
Great white hope. Your words, not mine. Assuming again.
“Then he try to fend off the term racist with statements like I live next to a reservation, my daughter-in-law is Asian.”
Not related to me. Take up that beef with Noah.
My niece’s daughter is black. My secretary is mulatto. Her kids are octaroons. My main employee is gay. My son’s high school graduation/my birthday celebration was at my house last night and it looked like the United Nations here. But so what? Not related to anything.
Despite the liberals’ attempts to prevent any discussion of race, lest one be thought racist_sexist_ageist_fill-in-the-blank, I still find a lot of young black men to be aimless, violent, irresponsible assholes, languishing in prison because that’s were they belong. Ditto a lot of Hillbilly men where I came from. These are observations, not prejudices, but I couldn’t care less what anyone else thinks about what *I* think, because I *think*. I find Bo’s politics unsavory because years of study have told me they have failed the world over every time they have been tried, and despite being a member of a liberal pet group, his being black does not in any way shield him from criticism of those policies.
I don’t know who pisses me off more, arch conservatives or arch liberals. Each has his blind spot: for the conservatives it’s “baby-killing.” For the libs it’s race. Neither is anything but cover for intellectual laziness – a laziness that lets them get in cheap shots without having to suffer the inconvenience of actually thinking. “Let’s throw down the race card; that’ll get ’em!”
Uh, no it doesn’t. Just undercuts your own credibility. More.
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By: PFesser on May 21, 2011
at 6:14 AM
lmfao delurkergurl. “Your record is to – what? Attack female liberals? Oooh, big man.”
lol your kind always goes there. Pull the race card..Pull the “oh my, I’m just a weak defenseless woman” card. There is no limit to the level you will stoop to. But have it your way, can’t say I didn’t try the nice way first.
As for all the “events” going on in your life that you are trolling for sympathy, I am sure it is just some minor karma adjustments. The phrase about reaping and sowing come to mind.
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By: Noah on May 20, 2011
at 10:49 PM
Timmy? The candidate from ‘V’?
He wouldn’t even carry his home state.
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By: judith on May 20, 2011
at 9:22 PM
Okay, what, if anything do you think of Pawlenty as a candidate? He’s not Mr. Excitement, and some of the stuff he takes credit for doing weren’t necessarily his doing (like many politicians), but he seems like he’s fairly sane for a current GOP candidate.
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By: Shash on May 20, 2011
at 8:25 PM
Ha Ha! I would smile if I posed with Michele as I did when I shook hands with George. Then, I would politely ask her some questions. I like strong “purdy” women. I married one.
I’m more afraid of my wife’s frying pan than her broom. She has a good arm.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 8:17 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Those who can, go ahead and do. Those who can’t, sit at their computers and talk to themselves all day about it.
Have a lovely weekend everyone!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 20, 2011
at 8:13 PM
Oh please James, you know you’ll have your picture taken with Michele Bachmann. She’s purdy! Right? Hope you survive your wife’s broom.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 7:47 PM
delurkergurl, I hope your “crummy life complications” are fixed. “Away I say!” to Mageen’s husband’s problems, and to yours.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 7:25 PM
delurkergurl, the labor unions and their allies did the same thing in Wisconsin. Both groups are wrong.
Because of your post, if Michele Bachmann runs and speaks near our home I will attend her speech and ask what she thinks about the teenager. Its possible I will meet her. I have met the Bushes, Bill Clinton, Sen. Gephart, and several others. Politicians are under foot during primary season.
Then, I will run for the exit as fast as my feet will carry me.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 7:19 PM
No ones puppet, President Obama is following policies he criticized when Bush led the country. For example, he supported extending the Bush tax cuts for another year. He also continued with variations, Bush’s strategy in the battle against Muslim extremists. He approved a surge-like operation in Afghanistan, and he increased the drone attacks Bush used. He is waging a war of choice on Libya. So far, he has circumvented the War Powers Act without sending in ground troops as far as we know.
This tells me President Obama can learn and change his mind when his strategies are wrong for unanticipated conditions. Either that, or he is our of his depth and follows too closely what his advisers tell him. The health insurance law seems to be another bit of policy Obama let others write. While it has some good, it is too complex and gives too much interpretative freedom to unelected government functionaries and cabinet members. The growing number of waivers, including one to ARRPS and the state of Nevada prove something needs to be fixed.
A candidate must be able, have a workable plan, and be electable. As of today, Obama is electable by default. Its still the “economy stupid.” In that, Obama as my employee has failed my expectations. The paucity of job applicants is disappointing. No Republican who is running today can be elected in my opinion. Each lacks potential success in one or more of the three criteria.
“Great White Hope” offends me. You don’t offend me by using it. The term offends me. I am looking for hope, any hope, no matter from which party. Instead, I see bad choices.
A drunk driver spun out on an icy bridge one night, and his pickup blocked my way. I couldn’t stop on the ice though I applied the brakes. As I wrote, the driver was drunk, and he decided to open the pickup door and get out. As I saw the open door and a foot on the asphalt, I weighed my options. Either I turned away and risked crashing through the bridge railing, or I slammed headlong into the pickup and the driver.
Like now, there were no good choices. It ended badly, and so will our country if we follow our present course.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 7:10 PM
Classy tea party reaction to high school student’s invitation to debate Michele Bachmann:
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/20/teenager-bachman-debates-threats/
Violence? Rape? Because she dared to challenge Bachmann’s constitutional knowledge (which seems to consist only of 1st amendment right to lie through her teeth).
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By: delurkergurl on May 20, 2011
at 6:08 PM
Mageen, I’ve had some really crummy life complications this week but hearing about your husband’s situation makes me count my blessings that my sitch isn’t a health crisis. Just noise, in contrast. I hope your hubby is recovering from his latest procedure OK. Cancer is bad enough without additional complications. It sounds like he’s reached the point in his treatment where the summer can be about rebuilding strength, health and hope, once these little things get out of the way. Away, I say!
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By: delurkergurl on May 20, 2011
at 5:59 PM
Make that constitutionally unacceptable candidate.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 5:42 PM
When James and PFesser, you concede the best eligible candidate for the office of President of the United States of America is Barack Obama, but you throw out the possibility of a constitutionality acceptable candidate of Bill Clinton, I hear, you calling for a “great white hope” of candidates. Both men are Democrats, neither of them learned anything from George W. Bush, except what not to do. Even George W’s mother knows in her heart of heart, that as president, her son, George W Bush was the worst sort of f**k up!
Then he try to fend off the term racist with statements like I live next to a reservation, my daughter-in-law is Asian. What is that nonsense? Is that like Stephen Colbert saying, he has a black friend? It doesn’t make any sense to me, just saying.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 5:39 PM
I’m no less entitled to call it like I see it as you are, Noah. I observed that your role is to only bring the negative. That’s not really debatable. You’re quite good at it! If you’ve achieved the summit of your potential, I guess you have a right to be proud.
No need to get into a battle. You will win – you are hands down the bigger jerk. I concede. Dig through my posts anywhere if you are inclined to. For the most part I am kind to people (who don’t act like turds), and for the most part you are not. Your record is to – what? Attack female liberals? Oooh, big man. Does your wife know about this fixation? I was polite and reasonable with you when you got here, back in the days when you pretended to be ‘moderate’. How long did that last? A few days? Like most decent people, it took a bit for me to catch on as I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, but you made sure your true self appeared early on. Since then, the overwhelming majority (all?) of your posts are intended to provoke a negative reaction. It’s all you’ve got, apparently. While I’m proud of those who have consistently actively ignored you, I’ve failed at times to abstain from your intentionally reaction-inducing crap. I’m sure you could find those examples and think they prove I’m somehow worse than you. Your phony assessment won’t hurt me, so go for it if you have nothing more constructive to do. Everyone but you is on to you.
There is nobody here as relentlessly junior high as you. It’s pretty funny, actually, which is why couldn’t help but LOL today. In fact, I just laughed again about it. It saddens me that good people fade away when the trolling gets out of hand. Fortunately, since it isn’t about you, they come back when M&H do. That keeps me hanging in there! Love this place!
I hope you have the best (and busiest) weekend of your life. I mean that. Really.
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By: delurkergurl on May 20, 2011
at 5:11 PM
My doubts about Obama’s temprement and economic sense are rational. My comparing him to two football teams is ridiculous. Ridiculous is more fun than rational.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 3:34 PM
In honor of the big day tomorrow, here for your listening enjoyment are Rob Thomas and Matchbox Twenty.
“Well I believe the world is burning to the ground
Oh well, I guess we’re gonna find out
I believe its all coming to an end
Oh well, I guess we’re gonna pretend
Gone, gone, baby, its all gone
There’s no one on the corner
and there’s nobody home
Now its over for me
and its over for you.”
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 3:03 PM
“So why are we to assume James, that you and PFesser aren’t at least a little racist, when you propose Bill Clinton as a replacement for Barack Obama? I bet both of you were on the bandwagon to impeach Clinton a few years ago, what changed?”
Guess again. It is always dangerous to assume – especially to assume and then draw conclusions based on that assumption.
In point of fact I was furious that the GOP wasted its credibility on such a cheap attack. People are complex; don’t stereotype them or try to predict their behavior based on your own prejudices *about* them; you will be wrong most of the time. Some care deeply about *what* is right and not at all about *who* is right and least of all about which idealogy or party wins. That would be me, so assume nothing.
It is also always dangerous to pull out the race card cheaply. Race *can* be a legitimate topic of discussion, and I do not ever shy away from it because of fear of being called racist. For some it is an easy, cheap shot that makes others afraid to speak their minds. I am *way* beyond that.
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By: PFesser on May 20, 2011
at 3:03 PM
Now you are just being ridiculous James.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 2:58 PM
Probably nothing is wrong with the guy who got Bin Ladin. If he’s lucky, we will never know who he is. Obama, who ordered the final snatch, seems like a nice man. He has adopted much of Bush’s war on terrorism policy, so he shows he is smart enough to learn.
I don’t like his tendency toward policy pacifism. For example, he seemed not to be engaged in making the health insurance law. One time, he said he hadn’t read all of the bill. Sometimes, Obama seems to be tone deaf.
Right now, Obama seems better than the alternatives, and that is as bad as having to root for the University of Nebraska football team because it is better than Iowa State University’s team.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 2:49 PM
NOP, another advantage to having a Korean daughter in law is I can use it to my advantage. Our son and I have teased each other almost since the beginning. One time our son said when we get too old to care for ourselves, we can move in with them. His mother could stay in the house. I could live in a box by the garage.
The Korean culture fosters respect for your elders. Our daughter in law chewed our son out for failing to show me the proper respect. She likes me and cooks what I like if I ask for it.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 2:34 PM
So what is wrong with the guy, who got bin Laden?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 2:31 PM
Nothing changed for me.
I was on the band wagon to impeach Clinton because most of us would have gone to jail for what he did– obstruction of justice, perjury, and who knows what other unknown crimes he committed. However, I favored his aquittal because being remembered as the only President besides Andrew Johnson to be impeached seemed to be sufficient punishment to me.
Besides, how can you stay mad at the guy? I’ve met him. Bill can charm the fur off a mink.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 2:24 PM
Okay PFesser, don’t make me laugh while I’m chewing, “Getting ready?” The thing is we do know how to have fun on this Blog, we are all capable of a little introspection as well. So why are we to assume James, that you and PFesser aren’t at least a little racist, when you propose Bill Clinton as a replacement for Barack Obama? I bet both of you were on the bandwagon to impeach Clinton a few years ago, what changed?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 2:01 PM
lori –
My apologies on the blow-up doll thing. I just read the guy’s blog. OMG! That is hilarious! Release blowup dolls as raptured souls!
And let me tell you, it would work. When I was in high school my buddy and I released two homemade balloons and caused a complete panic in our hometown. I thought we were going to go to jail. People thought we were being invaded from Mars and once they got panicked, the panic spread like the proverbial wildfire.
You know, it wouldn’t take much helium to make a doll lighter than air. Just put in enough to make it float a little, then the rest with air, so it wouldn’t go up too fast.
I wonder where the poolman is? Getting ready?
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By: PFesser on May 20, 2011
at 1:50 PM
I think powerful men and also women’s fooling around has survival value, PFessor. Even monogamous birds and coyotes cheat. Prostitution seems too often exploitive of women.
Whips and blow up dolls do nothing for me. My wife and a big empty soy bean field is another matter.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 1:49 PM
Lori and Delurker, if either of you mentioned a specific person, who might owe a blow-up doll, I missed it. Strange that someone immediately took offense, real strange, makes me wonder. Get over yourself, PFesser, not everything is about you, a lot of people have blow-up dolls, for any number of reasons.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 1:41 PM
No color barrier here. Asians and Hispanics are in my family, and since we live next to a reservation, I have Indian friends who live near us. One didn’t know she was Native American until her professor at college asked if she would like to join a club for minorities.
I have blue eyes and red to blond whiskers from Scandinavia and dark brown hair from Welsh ancestors.
Get us all together, and you would mistake us for the UN General Assembly.
Voting for an albino black man like Bill Clinton is no stretch.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 1:40 PM
NOP –
re: Clinton. I can tell you from personal experience that the old saying about power being the ultimate aphrodisiac is true. It must be hardwired somewhere, and it makes sense: the man who rises to the top of the heap has exactly the genes that nature wants to pass on. Women sense it too, and find powerful men incredibly attractive, which is why I believe the scandals happen so often.
Interestingly, my Pentecostal housekeeper thought that if prostitution were legal, there wouldn’t be a problem: the fellow could get all the sex he wanted without pestering his wife and she wouldn’t have to worry about love children or his leaving home. Interesting POV from a deeply religious, but very practical, woman. Thoughts?
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By: PFesser on May 20, 2011
at 1:37 PM
lori –
I think you may be a little cloistered. Blowup dolls are so passe these days. As my wife said when we were at the last Internext conference, nowadays you can get stunningly beautiful girls to let you do absolutely anything to them.
And videotape it.
And sell it on the Internet. I know some folks rather well who have retired that way.
Tell me more about about the whips! *Nobody* uses chains though; that’s just an expression. They’re too cold. Leather and, if you are a real purist, hemp rope – undyed of course – are the thing.
JT’s Stockroom is the place to learn if you are interested in that kind of play. Joel is a really, really nice guy.
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By: PFesser on May 20, 2011
at 1:30 PM
delurkergurl, just calling it as i see it. Since you seem to be so fixated on me I would be happy to expound on your many faults both on her and other boards, let people get to know the real you. I think the better option since you cannot find it within yourself to stop the personal attacks is we ignore each other. Ball is in your court kiddo. I am dead tired of this dance with you, from this point forward the gloves of civilized debate are off with you.
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By: Noah on May 20, 2011
at 1:25 PM
Poor Noah just can’t stand to see people laughing, talking and getting along. Keep an eye out for floaters in the punch bowl. 😉
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By: delurkergurl on May 20, 2011
at 12:51 PM
Well done guys, finally getting pass the color barrier….
Kind of a left handed compliment. I doubt either had any color barrier to get past.
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By: Noah on May 20, 2011
at 12:29 PM
Sandi could you qualify that statement with any substance at all. Maybe say why you feel why you feel if you can muster the courage.
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By: Noah on May 20, 2011
at 11:58 AM
He is funny Delurker … I LOL – ed when I read his blog this morning. I can think of a person or two that might have a few extra blow up dolls laying around the house! Can’t u? LOL LOL They are probably dressed in black leather equipped with whips and chains though. ;p
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By: lori on May 20, 2011
at 11:47 AM
Well James and PFesser, no one can accuse you of being racist, you want to do a creative interpretation of The Constitution and run our first black president, Bill Clinton, for a third term. Well done guys, finally getting pass the color barrier….
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 11:41 AM
Speaking of Newt…. http://gawker.com/5803805/john-lithgow-gives-newt-gingrichs-press-release-the-dramatic-reading-it-deserves
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By: No One's Puppet on May 20, 2011
at 11:28 AM
Pfessor, remember I told NOP I had no choices for the Republican nomination. The nineties were so good because we were living on the end of war bonus and the computer bubble.
Bill and Newt’s collaboration and the Republican majority contributed to the good times. They were discussing making Social Security more sustainable when the Monica scandal ruined it. Both are smart men with serious character flaws. One historian said Clinton and Nixon should be condemned because they could have become great presidents.
Obama is vulnerable. Sarah Palin’s and later Donald Trump’s hectoring prove it. The right candidate could beat him. He/she is hiding under a rock today.
I think Grover Cleveland was elected for two different terms. I would vote for Bill because he is still alive.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 9:47 AM
James –
re: Newt. A couple of years ago I was engaged in a friendly ongoing debate with an old radiologist about conservative/liberal stuff. He was about eighty, but a staunch liberal. We traded articles, jokes, books. It was great fun.
Newt had just come out with a book – the name escapes me. I bought two copies, one for my friend, one for me. I started to read mine first before I gave him his copy. It was awful. I was so disappointed that the author of the Contract with America had produced such crap. It was basically a document pandering to the Religious Right and suggesting ways that we could breach the wall of separation of church and state. This from a supposed history professor.
When I went to work my friend asked me where his book was. “I threw it away.” “You threw it away?” “Yep. It was so bad that I was embarrassed to give it to you.” “You threw away a book by Newt Gingrich. I have to say your stock just went up fifty points.”
Newt is NOT what we want. I don’t know what his problem is, but he is not the man. Nor is Sarah GodForbid Palin. And FOR SURE it is not Huckleberry, or whatever his name is. Romney? Romneycare will sink him.
I’m willing to accept Bo for another term. His policies do not fit mine very well, but the ReBiblicans have *nothing.* And I mean nothing.
Clinton, OTOH I believe may be eligible to run again. Although when he was in office he was an ongoing embarrassment, I don’t think we knew how good we had it. If he ran I would campaign for him – AND buy him his own concubine to keep him occupied in his off hours. It would be worth every penny.
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By: PFesser on May 20, 2011
at 9:00 AM
Don’t worry alaskapi. I trust what you wrote earlier. I just thought it was an interesting article with a tone I didn’t expect.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 8:08 AM
James- I am politic-ed out but please, please don’t buy that Atlantic editor’s take on Sarah Palin.
She did NOT change.
She did NOT.
What unfolded on the national scene was starting to unfold here.
She had fired an advisor who ran interference for her and all the nasty snarky mean girl stuff was becoming more obvious by the day here as well as her inability to stay focussed on issues here.
The huge approval rating was starting to slip, bumped back up a bit because folks here were excited “one of their own” was on the national scene and then tanked when she came home and made a hash of the job we hired her to do.
As mad as we have been over her quitting , in hindsight we are also relieved .
That writer is lost in speculating about an image, not reality. Period.
I know this blogger personally and she has been right on the money about SP from day 1.
http://www.themudflats.net/2011/05/16/the-real-tragedy-of-sarah-palin/
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By: alaskapi on May 20, 2011
at 7:51 AM
While I cringe at the shots taken at my religion, I have to admit I found this VERY funny.
10 Reasons Why Doomsday Will Be Awesome
http://www.stonekettle.com/2011/05/ten-reasons-doomsday-will-be-awesome.html
I don’t want to know if you already have a collection of blow-up dolls for Jim’s suggested use. 😀
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By: delurkergurl on May 20, 2011
at 7:41 AM
Newt was in Omaha yesterday. A reporter asked him about his wife’s and his $500,000 bill at Tiffany’s. He said it his personal responsibility to pay it. ” Do you still owe the bill?” Newt walked away. A KFAB talk show host snarkilly theorized Newt might be buying off his wife over some indiscretion.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 7:31 AM
From Lawrence Journal-World: “White House stunned by Gingrich resignation” When senior White House adviser Doug Sosnik delivered the news, “New is resigning” President Clinton’s head fell forward, his eyebrows arched in disbelief. “it will be an interesting weekend” said one aid. “I feel kind of bad for him,” said another. Bill also felt bad for Newt.
“They are a pair of long -winded pols obsessed with history and prone to petulance. Each acknowledged the other had a certain charm. In Oval Office meetings, Gingrich, the history professor, and Clinton the history buff would gab on endlessly. At political dinners, they traded pokes.”
They should have spent more time gabbing and less time looking for women.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 7:15 AM
A man found a penguin on his doorstep, and it wouldn’t leave. He asked his friend what to do, and his friend suggested he take it to the zoo.
The next day, the friend found the man and penguin in a bar. “What happened? I thought you took the bird to the zoo.”
“I did. We had so much fun, I’m taking it to the movies today.”
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 6:56 AM
Mageen, surely this will be the “dark before the dawn.” Your story made me wince. It isn’t the same thing, but it reminded me of when a the son of a friend had an ingrown toenail, and the doctor pulled it up. Your husband’s sounds worse. He will have some intersting stories to tell when this is over.
Yes, Newt is a smart man. I remember reading about the debate NOP. Jack Horner has quite a story too. I don’t think the Republicans will nominate him.
Atlantic Magazine has an article about Sarah Palin. According to the writer, McCain and other managers turned her into someone different from who she was as Governor of Alaska.
Thanks for the complement, Sandi. Your hero worship, at least for me is misplaced. I put my shoes on one at a time as you do. Maybe you should consider Lady Gaga. She seems to be almost other worldly. Put up your paws and show her you care.
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By: James on May 20, 2011
at 6:51 AM
OK Mageen –
Three couples – young, middle-aged and elderly – apply for membership in a desirable church. They are interviewed by the pastor who says, “We want to be sure that you are serious about your commitment to our church, so I have a little task for you. I want all you you to be celibate for thirty days.”
They grumble but accept. The month passes and once again they are in his office.
“How did it go?”
The elderly man says, “Well, it wasn’t too bad. We tended our garden, took long walks and the thirty days passed like magic.”
“Well, good for you. You are now welcome in our church.”
“How about you?” The middle-aged fellow says, “Well, it was pretty tough. There at the end we didn’t think we were going to make it, but we struggled and tried to take our minds off it and finally were successful.”
“Well, good for you, too! You are welcome in our church.”
“And you?” he asked the young couple…
“Not too good, preacher,” said the young man. “In fact, it happened the first day. After we left your office, it was all we talked about. About 10 a.m. she was bent over getting a can of beans off the shelf and I just couldn’t help myself; we had sex right there and then.”
“I’m sorry, young man. I know it’s tough being young, but I’m afraid you are not welcome in our church.”
“That’s OK preacher. We’re not welcome at Kroger, either.”
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By: PFesser on May 20, 2011
at 6:38 AM
jean –
“I don’t believe a doctorate from Bob Jones “University” or Liberty “University” in Theology, Law or any other discipline they put forth is worth the paper it’s written on.”
Hear! Hear!
I’ve interacted with some of these people. It is a travesty to bestow any kind of certificate upon them – or at least the ones I’ve met. (In matters of science at least) they are out of their depth in a car-puddle.
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By: PFesser on May 20, 2011
at 6:25 AM
Didn’t find anything under RateMyProfessors.com, guess it has been too long since he has taught.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2011
at 11:39 PM
I am so sorry Helen that you have lost your Harold. My heart breaks for you.
James, Noah…you two aren’t even human are you?
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By: Sandi on May 19, 2011
at 11:36 PM
Jean, we have more to look forward to with Newt. I cannot wait for his “opinion” on evolution? or creationism? My guess is that he will go the whole distance and say he believes in creative design. Actually Newt is quite a good amateur paleontologist, I recall a formal debate he had with Jack Horner on Montana PBS maybe 10 or 11 years ago. They were debating rather dinosaurs were the ancestors of birds, Horner said, they were and Newt disagreed. Since then more conclusive evidence has been found proving Horner was correct, but at the time Newt was on equal footing with Horner and conceivably could have been right.
I’ve never hear any comments on Newts abilities as a history professor, so I think I’ll check on that. If any of his students have strong feeling, pro or negative, he should be listed on a site I know. Get back to you on that.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2011
at 11:31 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Now that’s more like the M&H’s I love!!!! Thanks Cynthia for making my day.
Gene Lyons’ newest column is right up there with Helen’s posts and Cynthia’s comments today. In our newspaper today it is entitled “”Another Sex Scandal in Politics? Say it isn’t so.” Would one of my good buddies please track it down and put it up here? This is by far, one of his best. He takes the ‘Newt’, (salamander?), the ‘Republican thinker-in-chief’ utterly apart with, and I quote:
“Pundits worry that Newt may be too brainy for voters. ‘Can the Professor connect?’ Time magazine wondered…….’Academically, Gingrich is the worst kind of faculty lounge-lizard, a third-rater in his own discipline given to sweeping pronouncements about subjects he barely comprehends.”
Then Lyons goes on to take on Indiana’s putative presidential candidate, Gov. Mitch Daniels and rips him to shreads. Hilarious!!!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 19, 2011
at 10:31 PM
So fun everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2011
at 8:29 PM
Cynthia, I needed a laugh badly, too. THANK YOU!
Mageen, I really pray this is the dark before the dawn and that things start to improve. Tick bite? Toenails? On top of everything else? God bless you guys! Was hubby very, very bad in a past life? 😀
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By: delurkergurl on May 19, 2011
at 6:43 PM
Subject: A SENIOR’S LETTER TO THE BANK
Shown below, is an actual letter that was sent to a bank by an 86 year old woman. The bank manager thought it amusing enough to have it published.
Dear Sir:
I am writing to thank you for bouncing my check with which I endeavored to pay my plumber last month. By my calculations, three nanoseconds must have elapsed between his presenting the check and the arrival in my account of the funds needed to honor it.
I refer, of course, to the automatic monthly deposit of my entire pension, an arrangement which, I admit, has been in place for only eight years. You are to be commended for seizing that brief window of opportunity, and also for debiting my account $30 by way of penalty for the inconvenience caused to your bank. My thankfulness springs from the manner in which this incident has caused me to rethink my errant financial ways.
I noticed that whereas I personally answer your telephone calls and letters, — when I try to contact you, I am confronted by the impersonal, overcharging, pre-recorded, faceless entity which your bank has become. From now on, I, like you, choose only to deal with a flesh-and-blood person. My mortgage and loan repayments will therefore and hereafter no longer be automatic, but will arrive at your bank, by check, addressed personally and confidentially to an employee at your bank whom you must nominate.
Be aware that it is an offense under the Postal Act for any other person to open such an envelope. Please find attached an Application Contact which I require your chosen employee to complete. I am sorry it runs to eight pages, but in order that I know as much about him or her as your bank knows about me, there is no alternative. Please note that all copies of his or her medical history must be countersigned by a Notary Public, and the mandatory details of his/her financial situation (income, debts, assets and liabilities) must be accompanied by documented proof. In due course, at MY convenience, I will issue your employee with a PIN number which he/she must quote in dealings with me.
I regret that it cannot be shorter than 28 digits but, again, I have modeled it on the number of button presses required of me to access my account balance on your phone bank service. As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Let me level the playing field even further.
When you call me, press buttons as follows:
IMMEDIATELY AFTER DIALING, PRESS THE STAR (*) BUTTON FOR ENGLISH
#1. To make an appointment to see me.
#2. To query a missing payment.
#3. To transfer the call to my living room in case I am there.
#4. To transfer the call to my bedroom in case I am sleeping.
#5. To transfer the call to my toilet in case I am attending to nature.
#6. To transfer the call to my mobile phone if I am not at home.
#7. To leave a message on my computer, a password to access my computer is required. Password will be communicated to you at a later date to that Authorized Contact mentioned earlier.
#8. To return to the main menu and to listen to options 1 through 7.
#9. To make a general complaint or inquiry. The contact will then be put on hold, pending the attention of my automated answering service.
#10. This is a second reminder to press* for English. While this may, on occasion, involve a lengthy wait, uplifting music will play for the duration of the call.
Regrettably, but again following your example, I must also levy an establishment fee to cover the setting up of this new arrangement. May I wish you a happy, if ever so slightly less prosperous New Year?
Your Humble Client
(Remember: This was written by an 86 year old woman)
‘YA JUST GOTTA LOVE ‘ US SENIORS’!!!!!
And remember: Don’t make old ladies mad. They don’t like being old in the first place, so it doesn’t take much to set them off.
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By: Cynthia on May 19, 2011
at 6:00 PM
Mageen – will this help?
A new supermarket has opened in the next town.
It has an automatic water mister to keep the produce fresh. Just before it goes on, you hear the sound of distant thunder and the smell of fresh rain.
When you pass the milk cases, you hear cows mooing and you experience the scent of fresh mown hay.
In the meat department there is the aroma of charcoal grilled steaks with onions.
When you approach the egg case, you hear hens cluck and cackle, and the air is filled with the pleasing aroma of bacon and eggs frying.
The bread department features the tantalizing smell of fresh baked bread and cookies.
However, I don’t buy toilet paper there anymore.
*****
My friend Linda emailed this to me today and I nearly fell off my chair laughing. I have to post it; it’s too good to pass up and oh so true!
Why do we press harder on a remote control when we know the batteries are almost dead?
Why do banks charge a fee on “insufficient funds” when they already know there is not enough money?
Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars; but have to check when you say the paint is still wet?
Why doesn’t Tarzan have a beard?
Why does Superman stop bullets with his chest, but ducks when you throw a revolver at him?
Why do Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?
Whose idea was it to put an “S” in the word “lisp”?
If people evolved from apes, why are there still apes?
Why is it that no matter what color bubble bath you use the bubbles are always white?
Is there ever a day that mattresses are not on sale?
Why do people constantly return to the refrigerator with hopes that something new to eat will have materialized?
Why do people keep running over a string a dozen times with their vacuum cleaner, then reach down, pick it up, examine it, then put it down to give the vacuum one more chance?
Why is it that no plastic bag will open from the end on your first try?
How do those dead bugs get into those enclosed light fixtures?
When we are in the supermarket and someone rams our ankle with a shopping cart then apologizes for doing so, why do we say, “It’s all right?” Well, it isn’t all right, so why don’t we say, “That really hurt, why don’t you watch where you’re going?”
Why is it that whenever you attempt to catch something that’s falling off the table you always manage to knock something else over?
In winter, why do we try to keep the house as warm as it was in summer when we complained about the heat?
How come you never hear father-in-law jokes?
And my favorite …
The statistics on sanity is that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends—if they’re okay, then it’s you.
Peace
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By: Cynthia on May 19, 2011
at 5:50 PM
Oh, wow! I must really be in a bad way when that Heavens Gate “joke” cracked me up! Husband had outpatient surgery on his feet today as a result of get this a bad pedicure aggravated by a poorly constructed toe box on his shoes. Just what he needed on top of chemo! No anasthetic! Can you believe it! His toenails were raised so high off the naildbed the doc was able to use a special tool to remove the nail, and then slapped a band aid on each one! Talk about cheap. Thank goodness husband is already on an antibiotic due to a tic bite. What! Wait! Didn’t I tell you that? Also the chemo is giving him extraordinarily red palms on both hands and swollen ankles. The doc recommended pressure hosiery available at a drug store.
As for the hiring situation I described before, it is unbelievable that it should occur here in an area next to a military installation which has more than doubled due to Base Relocation And Closing. All the new housing is due to the arrival of thousands of new personnel who will be living off-base. The local Home Depots, Lowes and independent paint stores are going gangbusters and should be hiring by the droves but it ain’t the case, especially with the independent stores some of which have closed despite the increase in the bottom line. Frankly, I think some of these independents are arbitraging — closing down in one spot and opening up in another under a different name. Just what good does that do anyone!
Somebody crack another joke! I need it!
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 19, 2011
at 4:58 PM
Comet
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By: PFesser on May 19, 2011
at 3:50 PM
Cool. The world is going to end on my birthday. Who knew?
By the way, did you know they found some more Heavens Gate bodies?
They were in the kitchen.
Under the sink.
Wait for it……….
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Behind the comet.
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By: PFesser on May 19, 2011
at 3:49 PM
I just got Geoffrey Dunn’s book on Sarah GodForbid Palin. When you see how the “sausage was made” as he puts it, on the McCain campaign and the Palin bus it will make you want to vomit.
God where do we get these losers? And why are they following the GOP around? And why won’t the GOPpers listen to me?
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By: PFesser on May 19, 2011
at 3:46 PM
I know all of that NOP. It was quite a news story around here. Jesse spent time in our county, and Cole Younger had a photo shop in my home town for four months. However, when I read the details of how Jesse escaped to Texas the story entertained me, though I knew the truth.
If you are so inclined, look up Inkapaduka (SP?) He led the Spirit Lake Massacre, and he became the Osama bin Ladin of his day…another sort of home town boy who made good.
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By: James on May 19, 2011
at 2:11 PM
Hey, I watch the history channel, so I know they dug him up, and while I hate to be a killjoy, they did his MtDNA and it is Jesse in that grave.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2011
at 1:55 PM
You sound like me NOP. I’d be there with the water and food too. My wife says she is afraid to let me out alone for fear of what I will say at political events, and she is only half joking.
We both know the two wars are battles in a larger conflict, and we may not see the end during our lives. I hope your daughter’s work survives too. This is just my feeling. I give Iraq a 50/50 or maybe a 60/40 chance it will survive the next five years.
Thanks for the entertaining site Palinshutup. You put a smile on my face. MImosa, in the comments section referred to “paranoid speculation.” If you are into that sort of thing, research what some think happened to Jesse James. He faked his death and died in Texas at the age of 104.
My first crop of onions is nearly ready.
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By: James on May 19, 2011
at 1:26 PM
I hear you PSU…
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By: lori on May 19, 2011
at 12:32 PM
James, my husband thinks I am a nice nut too, but if I go on a mission to feed and water pets, he’ll stay home. I know him. He always tells me, when I want him to political event, someone has to be on the outside to bail me out.
Unfortunately neither war is exactly over, but staying won’t change anything, my daughter will be leaving Iraq in October if not sooner. She hopes the issues she has worked on hold, but…. At the moment she is working with several international judges on a revised and more extensive law code for Iraq. I know she hopes the government doesn’t dissolve into a civil war and her work lost.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2011
at 12:15 PM
And what about those awesome Alaska blogs? I miss those too.
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By: palinshutup on May 19, 2011
at 11:54 AM
Yup, we’ve been dealing with the ‘sock puppets’ for some time now but in case anyone needed confirmation
Right-Wing Sock Puppets Pretending to Be Liberals Assault Progressive Websites
http://tinyurl.com/5w5unkj
Basically, they are dispatched to do what they do here in M&H’s blog, they take over the comments section.
I miss the days when we discussed paving, gardening…
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By: palinshutup on May 19, 2011
at 11:52 AM
NOP, “you’re a nut.” but a nice nut.
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By: James on May 19, 2011
at 11:50 AM
I almost forgot NOP. You asked “James, who says we’ve defeated them in Afghanistan or Iraq?” The answer is “I do.” We both know that could change tomorrow.
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By: James on May 19, 2011
at 11:43 AM
A congregation heard the call around 1925. They sold or gave away their possessions, including their homes, and on the appointed day, they donned sheets and walked to the top of a five hundred foot hill a few miles east of our farm.
God didn’t take them that day, and the poor folks had to rely on the kindness of neighbors. My father said the entire congregation moved away because of embarrassment.
Mormons migrated to our county from their Winter Quarters. One man persuaded some to live in his version of heaven on earth. His eutopian vision was communistic. Like the rapture believers, the community gave their goods to their leader who became a spiritual middle man. They eventually caught on the the scam and would have killed their leader had he not hidden in an attic for three days.
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By: James on May 19, 2011
at 11:32 AM
Well, I’m slated to teach 3-year-olds at children’s church on the 22nd. Of course, if the wedding feast is scheduled I will be attending. I am on the guest list, afterall. I am ready for this whole ride to reach its final destination.
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By: poolman on May 19, 2011
at 11:01 AM
Poolman, sounds like you are covered for the day, May 21, but I was wondering if you had plans for the day after. I told hubby this morning, we have to break into the neighbors’ houses to feed and water their pets. He said, “you’re a nut.”
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2011
at 10:05 AM
The Nationwide series auto race will be at Newton, Iowa on Sunday. My wife and I will be attending a few high school graduation parties. Love the cake.
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By: James on May 19, 2011
at 10:04 AM
Sorry. My name is Justin Case
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By: Anonymous on May 19, 2011
at 9:48 AM
For all you sinners. Here is THE answer.
http://rapture-soon.net/saved.html
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By: Anonymous on May 19, 2011
at 9:47 AM
I do. I got my rapture-ready suit handy, just in case. 😀
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By: poolman on May 19, 2011
at 9:42 AM
Does anyone have plans for May 22?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2011
at 9:19 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Malaysia in Southeast Asia is a true melting pot of races, ethnicity and religions. It was under the domination of the British Empire until achieving her independence in 1947-48. It is now a quite modern country in that so much of it was utterly destroyed during WWII. So much for her history. If you are interested you can Google and learn more than you ever wanted to know about Malaysia.
Malaysia is predominately Muslim just as the U. S. is predominately Christian with a bewildering array of denominations, sects and even a few cults plus other Asian religions. Kuala Lumpur, the capital of Malaysia is a quite large and ultra modern city. Some of Kuala Lumpur’s architecture reflects the British influence. Other buildings are skyscrapers. The twin towers are the tallest in the world, reputedly some six feet higher than the New York Twin Towers had been. The Centre Square displays manicured lawns and vibrant beds of flowers. There is a Memorial Mosque in the Centre Square and a huge bronze sculpture done by the same sculptor who did the famed Iwo Jima figures for our country. The U.S. piece depicts soldiers raising the American Flag on Iwo Jima during World War II.
Now, Malaysia is a Constitutional Monarchy with oh sure, the usual economic, social and political problems like everywhere else. They are workin’ on ‘em!
The people we saw going to and fro in the Center Square, both men and women, were generally dressed in business suits, carrying brief cases. When we visited there a few years ago, throughout the country the people we encountered were as a rule, warm, friendly and hospitable.
The Malaysian government in conjunction with its industries has been investing heavily in extensive expansion, especially in education for its rapidly growing Innovation, Science and Technology based economy. Its universities attract students from all over the world and vice versa. As with any education system, it starts with elementary school. A student anywhere can’t get into a university and succeed there without the fundamentals of a basic secondary education.
Our dear friend, the Ivy Leaguer economist and consultant to the World Bank (no, not the IMF) practically commutes to Malaysia. So we get regular very interesting reports directly from him. Fortunately for him, he is much, much, much younger than we are. The flights, even from here, are brutally long. We couldn’t handle those anymore.
Malaysia is very much into environmental issues and “Going Green”. She is called “The Land Below the Wind” because the country is under the typhoon belt latitude. It has a tropical climate and thus much longer growing seasons than those further north.
Two of the mainstays to the Malaysian economy are and have always been rubber and palm oil. Synthetic rubber was developed during and after WWII because of the shortages of natural rubber from that part of the world. However, as we have found out, synthetic rubber has a very large down side. It is not biodegradable, as anyone knows who has ever driven by a landfill and seen mountains of used tires, sometimes burning with columns of polluting smoke and a horrible stench. At the other end of the myriad uses for rubber, how many of us know people who are allergic to latex gloves, so essential in the healthcare industry? Prophylactics anyone? (Rhetorical questions, not requiring answers.)
This is getting kinda long winded so I’ll make it a two-parter. Next time, all about palm oil, believe it or not, a fascinating commodity we can all use in one form or another. It even has some vital medicinal properties not found in other readily available sources of vegetable oils.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 19, 2011
at 1:08 AM
JuneauJoe, Bush is no longer President little buddy. Time to get over it and move on.
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By: Noah on May 18, 2011
at 9:46 PM
Noah – Bet Bush and team would have taken care of Pakistan! Kind of like Bush and team took care of North Korea and Iran re: Nukes!!!!!!!!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 18, 2011
at 9:08 PM
A news article comes out today that reports Pakistan is building a new reactor to create more nuclear fuel for more weapons. Reporting that they already have more than 100 nuclear warheads and that they have spent billions of dollars in the last two years on their weapons program. Yet we still give this country more than a billion dollars yearly. Sure would like Obama to explain to me why this one has slipped past his attention and why when we need the money at home so badly haven’t we put a stop to this wasted spending. I see nothing beneficial to be gained by subsidizing their nuclear weapons program.
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By: Noah on May 18, 2011
at 8:25 PM
The link keeps getting eaten. Put a ‘.pdf’ at the end.
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By: delurkergurl on May 18, 2011
at 7:35 PM
“I speak for the trees, because the trees have no tongues.”
Dr. Suess
Here’s another example of a wonderful program that means the world to me and so many others, being sacrificed because “we’re broke”. The truth is, we can afford what we CHOOSE to afford, and things like this don’t matter to to the power brokers.
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By: delurkergurl on May 18, 2011
at 7:34 PM
NOP, I wasn’t clear. Our son has a good job now. It was rough for a few years, though. The company seems to be grooming him for another slot.
One hard thing about being a temp was he had no insurance or vacation time. One time, he programed cell phones for a Radio Shack store during the Christmas season. Our son worked there for fifteen days and the store had only one customer looking at cell phones. He left after they told him Friends and Family service did not include residents of Venus.
I agree about trickle down. I think trickle up is the way to go.
Thanks for the government work suggestion. It might come in handy some day.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 2:15 PM
Trickle down was a fairy tale. Has your son applied to the government James? Just a thought.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 18, 2011
at 1:59 PM
Mageen, if some of the business people are in over their heads or mismanaging as you write, I agree. No pity for them.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 1:35 PM
NOP, that’s why I wrote “those folks and their customers.” I’m too wordy as it is, so I didn’t write what I might have. You are absolutely right, in my opinion. As you know, our economy is a feedback system with all parts affecting the others. Bush told everyone to shop during the recession after 9/11 because tax cuts fail if if people don’t spend enough money. Right now, too many people are worried about the future.
Our son is a computer person. He graduated from college during the last recession. He tried to get a job in San Jose, but most computer engineers etc were investigating training for real estate sales jobs. Our son worked as a temp for the same company for over a year. His boss planned to make him the first full-time hire in two years. The company folded.
Our son worked as a temp for another company installing a new computer system. Over a year later, he was the company’s first time hire, and his boss told him to thank the Bush tax cuts. I don’t know what effect they had, but that is what his boss told him.
The company is large and doing well, but it is not hiring many people. Months after our son was promoted, most of the department, including his old job was phased out. They avoid hiring new people and try to promote people from within. Our son just finished $5,000 worth of training.
One of our son’s former college room mates lives near his and his wife’s home. The company he worked for folded, and he was unemployed for six months. He was one of millions with little discretionary spending money.
It is just an anecdote, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the company attitude was similar in other businesses.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 1:32 PM
OK, regarding hiring, my area is in the midst of tremendous expansion and there is $$ out there otherwise Lowes, Home Depot, Staples, WalMart etc. would be shuttered and abandoned. Townhouses and single residences abound in new construction and previous ownership. Current owners always seem to be working at keeping up their property and making it competitive for possible sale. Consequently, I think the guy managing the $2 million a year business has an internal management problem and it is him. He is sitting on a gold mine and ****ing it up royally. The idea now is how to get past the managers who are the internal management problem. This really has very little to do with taxes, etc. There are simply some people who are in over their heads and can’t or don’t even have the talent to tread water. Then corporate wonders why things aren’t going the way they should. No pity for Mr. Midlevel or Mr. CEO in such cases.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 18, 2011
at 1:09 PM
James, you don’t have customers if people don’t have money and people don’t have money, if they don’t have jobs.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 18, 2011
at 12:14 PM
This is based on my personal experience and observation. Large companies and their stock holders are doing well, as we know. Small businesses are less secure.
I think they are scared or nervous. Many businesses through technology and sometimes over working their employees have learned to survive with less. Consider the challenges they face. The health insurance law has unclear effects so problematic labor unions, companies and the state of Nevada have been granted temporary waivers. The criteria for getting a waiver is unclear.
A potential government shut down, mid-east unrest, unpredictable taxes, and the disaster in Japan create uncertainty. The high price of fuel is also frightening. President Obama did approve an extension of the Bush tax cuts, but future taxation is uncertain.
I think that as the economy slowly improves, retailers like the one you mentioned will have to hire more workers as demand increases. It will be physically impossible for them to otherwise continue.
I think the best way to motivate those folks and their customers is to remove some of the uncertainty. Even then, it will take awhile. The average unemployment rate is around 9%, but the actual rate counting people who gave up or are underemployed is closer to 15 or 20%. As the economy recovers, those people will re enter the job competition.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 12:00 PM
James, who says we’ve defeated them in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 18, 2011
at 11:29 AM
James et al., this is how it is going with hiring in the private sector. There is an inundation of resumes for those jobs requiring such. Yes, there are more applicants than jobs at that level. Not even a postcard reply as to the safe reception of the resume.
With retailers, it works like this: have not been able to find a single one that will take an application over the counter. Its always “go to our website and use the application available there.” That means if you do not have a computer you are up the proverbial creek with a canoe let alone the paddle.
Upon inquiring at a local retailer about reception of an electronic application: “I am so short handed due to the economy that I do not have time to even read what I get or hold interviews.” This from a guy managing a business that currently does $2 million in business a year. If he was correctly staffed, he could double that because of all the development activity in the area. I also think his contention is just plain damn dumb. It doesn’t make sense. He gets paid by the corporation to check his e-mail and hold interviews, but the fact that he does not choose to do that part of his job raises red flags with me.
Any ideas as to how to motivate guys like him? There’s a lot of them.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 18, 2011
at 10:36 AM
Yes, NOP, as of today, we defeated them in Afghanistan and also in Iraq. I agree, this is only one battle in a long conflict, and the fundamentalists may retake the field in a week or years . Mark Steynn author of “America Alone” believes Muslims may eventually win.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 10:19 AM
I’m not a fan of General Clark either. He may have been talking about contingency plans to invade the other countries rather than actual strategy. Its hard to tell with him. Most are hostile to us or aid and abet terrorists. Changing their governments with the cooperation of their citizens would benefit us.
Yes, it is about oil. It always has been.
Check a Dandy Warhol video The Dandy Warhols-Sleep- Thirteen Tales from urban bohemia up loaded by rayoflightcanada. (http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5ZY-QhPSCI) It gives a pictorial history from the Balfour Declaration of 1917 to Obama’s first Middle East conference. Its a pity no one will check, but it is your loss, not mine.
Amen, Delurkergurl. I am sowing seeds in the garden. Make yours a great day too.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 9:59 AM
Defeat? James, they aren’t defeated!
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By: No One's Puppet on May 18, 2011
at 9:44 AM
As you sow, so shall you reap. Make it a great day!
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By: delurkergurl on May 18, 2011
at 9:10 AM
“The same can be said of blogging. So let the “self-serving cherry-picking” continue here too. Any computer savvy person these days can send out a few ‘spiders’ and find the exact contiguous context in which who-said-what-to-whom-and-why. Then people can read it for themselves.”..JEAN
Jean,
Home work..? excellent memory..?
Since you were giving Cynthia such classroom credit for”being such an armchair general and political junkie”..Thought I’d give you a lil more of what she probably picked from or better yet, left out, as you so astutely observed.
Just Google “taliban offer of turning in Osama” and you will find all of Cynthia’s memory intact…You do know how to Google right Jean?..It’s right next to your thesaurus.
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By: Craig on May 18, 2011
at 9:05 AM
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/1103.html
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By: JuneauJoe on May 18, 2011
at 8:29 AM
Jean should call the Tea Party by its proper name. Otherwise her post is right on. People of other countries know more about us than we do them. Europeans regard us as insular. Most of us don’t even know the name of Canada’s prime minister.
I have a Fillipino e pal. She has told us about her culture and living conditions. She sent us a movie made and produced in the Phillipines. It had English sub titles. One of the most striking parts of the movie was a boy’s haste to get home in time for his brother to wear the “family shirt” to work. The family could only afford one dress shirt.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 7:15 AM
Bush rightly sent soldiers to Afghanistan because we had been attacked. It was a rush job with little previous preparation. Congress, not Bush provided the money and it took time for the military to learn what it needed and to get the supplies.
Mismanagement is common to all wars, especially at the beginning. SNAFU comes from WW11 and it still describes modern situations. Our invasion destroyed the old Al Quiada structure and forced it to decentrailze. So far, they have been unable to stage major attacks since the invasion began. Bin Ladin miscalculated.
Our niece and her husband spent their first tours in Afghanistan and helped search for Osama bin Ladin and other terroristic leaders, so we know some of the problems through them. Many units were under equipped. We sent numerous care packages to them and units in Iraq. Our niece and her husband repaired helicopters, but their unit was so short handed, they were used in combat at regular intervals. Conditions were much better the next time they served there.
Nasayers predicted we would be bogged down in Afghanistan as the Soviets and British were before us. We defeated the Taliban and Al Quiada by encouraging Afghanis to do much of the fighting. We “won” because we let it become Afghanistan’s war. Unfortunately, the war lords’ goals weren’t always our goals. They often settled personal scores and the results happened to overlap with our troops’ mission. Our niece believes Osama escaped because the Afghan militias let him get away.
Naysayers were right about our being bogged down, but we wrecked the Taliban and Al Quiada.
The Tillman case was a disgrace. People in the chain of command used him to promote the war.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 7:07 AM
Our auto repair man personally knows George Bush, and he has played golf with him. He likes Bush as a person. He is fun to be around, and he is decent to everyone, even the help.
A young liberal reporter assigned to Bush’s campaign made an intemporate comment which other reporters feared would freeze them all out of access to the candidate. They were beginning to oustrize her until Bush signaled he held no grudge. Later, he helped her write a book about her experiences and suggested the title, “Travels With George,” I think. The young woman said in an interview she liked Bush as a person though she still couldn’t stand his politics.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 6:34 AM
Mageen, without a doubt, that stimulus money did some good. According to the study I quoted it helped create 450,000 government jobs. Those people’s wages helped their local economies. However, it was focused on state and local governments, not private industry. Hence the estimated loss of 500,000 private sector jobs. I don’t trust specific job estimates, because they are just that.
However, no one can successfully gloss over the still high unemployment rate, and as stimulus money runs out, more government workers are losing their jobs. For example, Nebraska school districts also benefited from the stimulus. It saved many jobs, though schools were advised to use the money for special projects like computer systems. Now the school districts are beginning to struggle again because they are still “over employed”. The school where my wife teaches will save money by merging some of its athletic teams with the neighbors.
We need more private sector jobs and business activity. Private enterprise creates more wealth than the government.
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By: James on May 18, 2011
at 6:23 AM
JuneauJoe apples and oranges, I am sure I could take a 101 times obama did this or that to try and use that for proof on another topic, but that would be intellectually dishonest wouldn’t it. Stick to the topic at hand and try again. It really is to bad that you are such a sad little man. You fail so miserably to make any point of merit you have to attack posters personally.
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By: Noah on May 18, 2011
at 5:32 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Surprise! Surprise! The political scene for 2012 is heating up big time so let the cherry-picking games begin. The poor ole GOP/teabaggers are having a hellova time scrambling, trying to come up with a viable field of candidates to take on President Obama. Of course, he is just doing his job, steadfastly taking care of the nation’s business.
I find it pretty interesting that in this day and age of instant communication technology, whatever off-the-wall statements a potential candidate proclaims as his/her conviction-of-the-day can be immediately challenged by a video clip from such-and-so-date of him/her espousing a contradictory expression of the current strongly proclaimed “facts”. Often the clips are done within the spectrum of the complete context in which the “facts” were made before. Caught flatfooted! Then comes the backpedaling.
The same can be said of blogging. So let the self-serving cherry-picking continue here too. Any computer savvy person these days can send out a few ‘spiders’ and find the exact contiguous context in which who-said-what-to-whom-and-why. Then people can read it for themselves. Once it is in print, it is out there in cyberspace for all posterity.
Moving on, it goes without saying that it is important to stay as informed as possible on current local and national new. But of equal importance are international affairs. U. S. citizens are falling way behind on the scope of global interests. I’m not talking about all the awful things that ‘they’ are doing or saying. Big Bad China for instance. I’m interested in what the MAJORITY of the people are like, the culture, the economic climate, the changes and progress going on in various places around the world. Since we have visited Asia several times and spent time in various countries there, including Big Bad China, right now I am very much in interested in Malaysia again. I am learning quite a bit about that fascinating country a number of years since we were there. Plenty more than you can find on Wikipedia. I’ll get back to you on it later.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 18, 2011
at 1:34 AM
Noah,
Bush gave credit to the team: “Brownie did a heck of a job” while he watched New Orleans drown.
Bush went into Afghanistan to take out Bin Laden and the leaders who planned the taking down of the towers. Then he decided to forget about Bin Laden and went into Iraq. (Did you find the WMDs yet?)
THE TEAM started coming back to the states in body bags and CASKETS! Bush said, NO more pictures like that were allowed.
Read about Pat Tillman and his death in Afghanistan. He was on THE TEAM. Pat was a football player who got killed by friendly fire. They made up a story of firefight, but it was all made up for PR. PAT DIED FOR THE TEAM! GW said he was a hero and went with the lies of his death for the PR.
Rumsfeld: If you talk about inept – that is Donald Rumsfeld. He screwed up in Afghanistan and then screwed up in Iraq. He kept switching out Generals who asked for more troops.
GW gave credit for Jessica Lynch too – which was political hype as well.
Noah – Go to bed and give yourself time to think of reinventing history. That seems to be a favorite past time of yours.
Night Night Noah
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By: JuneauJoe on May 17, 2011
at 11:27 PM
Bullsh*t!!!! Words are cheap. Bush has no respect for anyone including himself.
Cynthia should know right? I mean she does know him personally, and would never make such a statement without unequivocal proof…right?
While I am not a major fan of ol GWB, end of the day, he gave credit where credit was due, he didn’t try to be the glory hound and try and take all the credit for himself. He may have given the orders but he knew others risked their lives to carry out those orders, and he rightly so gave them credit. End of the day, Obama did not. Nuff said.
Hows that saying go? There is no I in team, well unless you are on Obama’s team.
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By: Noah on May 17, 2011
at 10:34 PM
I think its a moot point about the POSSIBLE handover by a Afghanistan “Taliban” controlled regime”…
October 14th 2001…
“Mullah Mohammed Omar said there was no move to “hand anyone over”.
Taliban ‘ready to discuss’ Bin Laden handover if bombing halts
The Taliban would be ready to discuss handing over Osama bin Laden to a neutral country if the US halted the bombing of Afghanistan, a senior Taliban official said today.
Afghanistan’s deputy prime minister, Haji Abdul Kabir, told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US.
“If the Taliban is given evidence that Osama bin Laden is involved” and the bombing campaign stopped, “we would be ready to hand him over to a third country”, Mr Kabir added.
But it would have to be a state that would never “come under pressure from the United States”, he said.
Mr Kabir urged America to halt its air campaign, now in its eighth day, and open negotiations. “If America were to step back from the current policy, then we could negotiate,” he said. “Then we could discuss which third country.”..”
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By: Craig on May 17, 2011
at 9:34 PM
And then after the slaying of Usama…OBama said he would not do a media blitz of displaying photos and showing off thus America would not participate in a “slam dunk”…because it was not the American way?
Then the POTUS takes off and goes to Fort Bragg and other installations for photo ops and speeches for the next few days to underline the military might that he and his team projected.
No “slam dunk” posturing huh?
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By: Craig on May 17, 2011
at 9:24 PM
I’ve nothing more to say on the subject, Cynthia covered it all and I quote, “Fu*ck Bush!”
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By: No One's Puppet on May 17, 2011
at 8:14 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I see you have lived through it, done your homework and have an excellent memory, Cynthia. You have proven yourself to be much more than an armchair general and political junkie. Good work!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 17, 2011
at 7:51 PM
I am not through yet.
IMO
“One thing I have to say about GWB is that he is universally reported as respectful and considerate of his staff and particularly military staff.”
Bullsh*t!!!! Words are cheap. Bush has no respect for anyone including himself.
Bush could have accepted the Taliban’s first offer or second offer to capture bin Laden and turn him over to a third country, but no, Bush’s ego wouldn’t allow that nor would his agenda.
And that is why he sent men off to Afganistan and Iraq without the proper equipment. Their families bought them kavalar? vests and sent them to their men. PC that offered no protection from bombs or bullets. Rumsfeld – we go with the army we have not the one we wish we have. That’s why men were deployed a number of times because we did not have the army we should have had. Why over 5,000 men have lost their lives. And 40,000? wounded or disabled. Why we don’t take care of them properly and downgrade their condition so we don’t have to pay. How many suffering from PTSD. How many families have been destroyed because of this. How many Afganistans and Iraqis have been killed, displaced,families torn apart, and their country in shambles. And they had nothing to do with 9/11.
Fu*ck Bush!
Peace, maybe some day!
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By: Cynthia on May 17, 2011
at 7:32 PM
And fortunately, George W Bush didn’t stand in front of a sign saying, “Mission Accomplished,” wearing a cod piece to rival Henry VIII’s. That would have been embarrassing.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 17, 2011
at 7:04 PM
IMO –
These were two different situations.
Obama was taking full responsibility for going into a country without permission and assassinating the head of Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden. In doing this it could cause a problem with the Muslin world and Pakistan and who ever else. He was saying if you want to be angry, be angry with me. I gave the order. Don’t take it out on others. It was a serious moment in time not a time to congratulate or celebrate but to inform that Bin Laden was dead.
Bush was not going to tell the world that Cheney, before 9/11, had the oil companys in to divide up Irag”s oil. He was not going to say – I did this to show my father that I am a man. He was not going to say that Saddam served a purpose for awhile but now we don’t need him. He was not going to say he wanted to be a war president. Accepting responsibility for one’s actions was not one of Bush’s strong points.
There was a photo of Saddam in court. He had stomped his feet and pounded his chest for a while but I believe he thought the US would somehow rescue him. But then he realized for the first time that he was being f*cked by the US and they would not save him.
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 17, 2011
at 6:44 PM
PFesser, that is the way it was! Your point, Barack Obama has an ego, so did every other great man in history. President Obama initiated a counter-intelligence effort to find bin Laden, and made it priority number one. I like the result, myself, what is your problem?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 17, 2011
at 6:00 PM
Interesting contrast between GWB and Bo. (duplicate post at R’s blog)
One thing I have to say about GWB is that he is universally reported as respectful and considerate of his staff and particularly military staff. (In great contradistinction to the Clintons, especially Hillary, I might add.)
George W. Bush speech after capture of Saddam:
The success of yesterday’s mission is a tribute to our men and women now serving in Iraq . The operation was based on the superb work of intelligence analysts who found the dictator’s footprints in a vast country. The operation was carried out with skill and precision by a brave fighting force. Our servicemen and women and our coalition allies have faced many dangers in the hunt for members of the fallen regime, and in their effort to bring hope and freedom to the Iraqi people. Their work continues, and so do the risks. Today, on behalf of the nation, I thank the members of our Armed Forces and I congratulate ‘em.
Barack Obama speech after killing of bin Laden:
And so shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al Qaeda, even as we continued our broader efforts to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat his network. Then, last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground. I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan . And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice. Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad , Pakistan .
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By: PFesser on May 17, 2011
at 4:52 PM
You can view recovery projects in your area at http://www.recovery.gov. You can also see jobs created as reported by recipients. There is a link report waste, fraud or abuse at the top.
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By: delurkergurl on May 17, 2011
at 1:34 PM
James, the money you referred to earlier on did a great deal of good in my area. Construction companies hired on more bodies and the roads that had lain unfinished were suddenly completed. That much I can tell you cuz I saw it with my own eyes, and am I ever grateful for the completion of one particular road. It cuts as much as 20 minutes off my commute.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 17, 2011
at 12:58 PM
NY-26 !!!!!!!!
Any help is appreciated! 😉
“Absolutely incredible!
Democrat Kathy Hochul has surged to a dead heat in a New York special election that could dramatically alter the political landscape in Washington. Ever since Republicans took the majority in the U.S. House, they’ve pushed a non-stop platform of unpopular and destructive ideas, like ending Medicare while preserving tax breaks for millionaires.
Kathy is exactly who we need in Congress. She is a tireless fighter for jobs, someone who will always do right by middle class families in her district, and a strong leader who will stand up to the hard right.
Washington insiders and the media are closely watching this race. If Kathy can win a dramatic grassroots victory in this Republican stronghold, it would give Democrats the momentum in our fight to preserve Medicare and stop the Republicans’ reckless agenda.
That’s why hard right groups have just launched a smear campaign against her.
Senator Chuck Schumer
P.S. Time is running out. With the Republicans and their hard right groups funding vicious and misleading attacks against Kathy”. We must fight back!!!!!!
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By: lori on May 17, 2011
at 12:52 PM
Just for you, NOP, I’ll pick Michelle Bachman. Obama would clean her clock but she ought to get in a few good laughs during the debates.
I don’t have a choice yet.
I like Herman Cain, the former Godfathers Pizza CEO. Godfather’s Pizza is headquartered in Omaha, so I know a little about him. He helped save the company when it verged on bankruptcy . He is a good man, he is bright, and he has stage presence. I think he is too conservative for my taste.
Mitt Romney is another good man who like Cain has proven business sense, but I don’t think he can be elected today. Too many Republicans are upset over Romney Care which was part of the model for Obamacare, and Romney may be a robot from the “Fringe” alternate universe. Ha!
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By: James on May 17, 2011
at 11:02 AM
Please, please let it be Michelle Bachman, we need a little levity around here!
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By: No One's Puppet on May 17, 2011
at 9:22 AM
James, just curious, who is your pick for the Republican candidate?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 17, 2011
at 9:20 AM
Lori gushed about a good week for Democrats and the possibility of a Democratic victory in NY district 26.
Republicans have also had a good week. Trump and Huckabee have taken themselves out of the race. Gingrich will soon follow. An Iowan in Dubuque told him “get out before you make a bigger fool of yourself!”
The economy has weakened Obama. The right candidate might beat him. One club would be the fifteen member panel designed to control Medicare costs with the power to ration care.
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By: James on May 17, 2011
at 8:31 AM
I liked Jean’s last two posts. My first impression about an institution like Bob Jones University is the same as hers, but we don’t know about their true educational credentials. Some of my wife’s students have graduated from Oral Roberts University, and they are gainfully employed. One is a minister, and another a financial manager for a church.
Jsri’s blunder after he reacted to what I didn’t write because failed to read it all illustrates Jean’s point. My high school friend and freshman college room mate was like that. He thought he could wing it, and answered essay questions with limited information as Jsri did. . My friend flunked out. Now, he owns a laundramat an, electronics store and an electronics repair shop. He is well-off in his niche. Many college students are like that.
Another friend is like Jean’s son. He got a job as a mechanic after he left the Marines, and now he owns his own auto parts store and repair shop. His trade area is good because of the shop’s reputation. He tells me what he has to put up with. His occupation is at least as occupationally and intellectually challenging as a college professor’s. His employees are more technician than mechanic.
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By: James on May 17, 2011
at 6:46 AM
Wooo hooo it’s shaping up to be another good week for us! Keep up the good work people. Remember NY-26! We are within striking distance.
Anddd it’s election day in PA .. Please get out and vote. All politics is local.. it matters!
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By: lori on May 17, 2011
at 6:42 AM
Pfessor, it is amazing to watch a series of explosions like that isn’t it? Our work was much simpler. We dug a six foot pit, buried 20 sticks of dynamite at appropriate locations and my co- worker lit the fuse while we were still in the pit. Rather, he tried to light the fuse. He used a whole book of matches, and nothing happened. As he tried a cigarette lighter, I asked “are you sure we have the blasting cap right?” We looked more closely and discovered we had installed the fuse backward. My co- worker was trying to light the blasting cap. We changed it and then came the explosion. We never told the boss. Nineteen year olds and explosives made an interesting combination.
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By: James on May 17, 2011
at 6:10 AM
“Jsri, you should realize not all of us can get into or afford a Ivy League University.”
Or, based on my experience, want to. It’s like getting old – you have the *opportunity* to grow wise, but many just grow *old*. A very fetching young lady in my graduate class had attended Princeton and indeed had a very different, I believe superior, education – not the least of which was a very cordial, refined demeanor. She is not the rule, IMHO. A feigned superiority and painful naivete about how the world really works, born of a cloistered education devoid of real-life experience, is the more common. Not the kind of “education” I would want for my children.
James – re: irrigation. I started out college in mining engineering and had an explosives class as part of the curriculum. DuPont, who made “permissible powder” – which is to say a type of dynamite – taught part of the course. We got to watch a professional explosives engineer who worked for the company blast an irrigation ditch through nearly a linear mile of solid rock in order to produce an irrigation canal. He had it wired up with delays so it would detonate each hole in sequence. At the end there was about a two-second delay and then the last hole (at the beginning of the ditch) detonated, allowing the water to run through. It was like magic.
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By: PFesser on May 17, 2011
at 5:44 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
For those of you with a sense of humor and thinking of retirement, maybe a little levity will help you make up your mind.
RETIRE WHERE? Here are some of your choices:
You can retire to Phoenix, Arizona where…
1. You are willing to park 3 blocks away because you found shade.
2. You’ve experienced condensation on your hiney from the hot water
in the toilet bowl.
3. You can drive for 4 hours in one direction and never leave town.
4. You know that “dry heat” is comparable to what hits you in the face when you open your oven door.
5. The 4 seasons are: tolerable, hot, really hot, and ARE YOU KIDDING
ME??!!
OR
You can retire to California where…
1. You make over $250,000 and you still can’t afford to buy a house.
2. The fastest part of your commute is going down your driveway.
3. You know how to eat an artichoke.
4. You drive your Mercedes to your neighborhood block party.
5. When someone asks you how far something is, you tell them how long
it will take to get there rather than how many miles away it is.
6. The 4 seasons are: Fire, Flood, Mud, and Drought.
OR
You can retire to New York City where…
1. You say “the city” and expect everyone to know you mean Manhattan.
2. You can get into a four-hour argument about how to get from Columbus
Circle to Battery Park, but can’t find Wisconsin on a map.
3. You think Central Park is “nature.”
4. You believe that being able to swear at people in their own
language makes you multi-lingual.
5. You’ve worn out a car horn. (Ed. Note: if you have a car).
6. You think eye contact is an act of aggression.
OR
You can retire to Minnesota where…
1. You only have three spices: salt, pepper, ketchup.
2. Halloween costumes fit over parkas.
3. You have more than one recipe for casserole.
4. Sexy lingerie is anything flannel with less than eight buttons.
5. The four seasons are: winter, still winter, almost winter, and
construction.
OR
You can retire to the Deep South where…
1. You can rent a movie and buy bait in the same store.
2. “Y’all” is singular and “all y’all” is plural.
3. “He needed killin” is a valid defense.
4. Everyone has 2 first names: Billy Bob, Jimmy Bob, Mary Sue, Mary Beth, etc.
5. Everything is either “in yonder,” “over yonder” or “out yonder.”
It’s important to know the difference, too.
OR
You can retire to Colorado where…
1. You carry your $3,000 mountain bike atop your $500 car.
2. You tell your husband to pick up Granola on his way home and so he stops
at the day care center.
3. A pass does not involve a football or dating.
4. The top of your head is bald, but you still have a pony tail.
OR
You can retire to the Midwest where…
1. You’ve never met any celebrities, but the mayor knows your name.
2. Your idea of a traffic jam is ten cars waiting to pass a tractor.
3. You have had to switch from “heat” to “A/C” on the same day.
4. You end sentences with a preposition: “Where’s my coat at?”
5. When asked how your trip was to any exotic place, you say, “It was different.”
OR
You can retire to Florida where…
1. You eat dinner at 3:15 in the afternoon.
2. All purchases include a coupon of some kind — even houses and cars.
3. Everyone can recommend an excellent dermatologist.
4. Road construction never ends anywhere in the state.
5. Cars in front of you often appear to be driven by headless people.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 17, 2011
at 12:45 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
jsri, you did a great job of explaining how the college/university systems are set up, actually, for the most part, worldwide. I thought it was common knowledge. Yes, there is plenty of help out there, financial and otherwise, for strongly motivated students to receive a first rate education. We should remember however, that not all education takes place in the classroom and not everybody is cut out from the git go for the academic route. And remember, Albert Einstein almost flunked out of grammar school because he didn’t understand arithmetic!
As to the ‘elite’ Ivy League and/or Top Tier Universities, President Obama is a perfect example of a talented, intelligent and extremely hard working individual who certainly had no money or the prestige of a legacy to coast through by the skin of his teeth. But he persevered and succeeded magnificently and continues to do so.
By the same token, personally, I don’t believe a doctorate from Bob Jones “University” or Liberty “University” in Theology, Law or any other discipline they put forth is worth the paper it’s written on. Well, maybe to line the bottom of a birdcage. But that’s just my opinion.
In three different states, I attended five different colleges/and universities; one non-sectarian private, the other four, state. One was lousy, one was so-so and the rest were outstanding! At each I had some professors who were lousy, some so-so and the rest, outstanding! Sort of like life, huh.
Two of our sons went to private schools for a time, then public. The third, public all the way. One of our sons is a true mechanical genius! Both of his grandfathers were too. jsri, is there a mechanical gene you know of? When he was two, one morning we heard a gawd-awful crash at 6:00AM. We rushed in to see his crib lying in shambles all around him. He was sitting on the mattress on the floor looking bewildered. It turned out he had spent probably weeks, systematically working on the screws of his crib with his fingers until he got most of them out.
He always loved to take things apart and see how they work. When he was in junior high, my dryer quit. It was old and had done yeoman duty anyway. He wanted to take a look at it. He took it completely apart with pieces lying all over the garage. No manual. Then he came in and told me he had called and needed $35.00 for a part. OK. We got it for him, he put the whole mess neatly back together and it hummed along beautifully for about another 10 years.
All through school he was in MCL (More Capable Learners) classes. College? He despised sitting in a classroom. It was out of the question for him but it was his choice with no excuses or whining. He grew up to be a successful family man with no unresolved conflicts about a lack of college/university degrees. Generally, he is a joy to be around and everyone loves him.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 16, 2011
at 9:03 PM
My sincere condolences on the loss of Harold. I hope your family and memories are a comfort to you.
Thank you for continuing this blog.
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By: ChiCat on May 16, 2011
at 8:28 PM
According to a study by economists at Ohio State “Our benchmark results suggest that the ARRA created/saved approximately 450,000 state and local government jobs and destroyed/forestalled roughly one million private sector jobs.”
As we already knew the stimulus money went largely to state and local governments to offset state revenue short falls and Medicaid increases instead of boosting private sector employment.
Thus, we have a 500,000 net job loss for nearly a trillion dollars.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 7:18 PM
Craig, its like fighting a war with words.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 6:36 PM
Delurker, remember back in the day, we were united by Sarah Palin, a lot of people took time out of their day just to express an opinion. But we don’t want to go there again, even if would draw a larger crowd.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 16, 2011
at 6:36 PM
So, Jsri, you make assumptions based on limited information. I was taught never to do that. If you were insulting my graduate work because you assumed I did it at a diploma mill you were composing material out of thin air. Interesting. I hope you spend more time reading contracts.
It is becoming clearer to me now. You do believe state universities provide good education so by extension my MA plus hours was not a booby prize. By writing insults without proper information you got it wrong. Before I dropped out, I planned on getting the PHD possibly as soon as four years after I enrolled.
Our opthamologist went through the same program and when I told her about my experience, she shook my hand because she knew we both had accomplished something. I should have shaken her hand. She did it with biology.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 6:33 PM
I’m sorry delurkergurl. I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. I appreciate the kindness. I was trying to say that I can’t bring myself to feel sadness or any other emotion about the people who have left. Its nothing personal. Unpredictable emotions or lack of them are side effects of my previous life. Its like the song “Two Out of Three Ain’t Bad.” Sometimes, I can be too cold. Its not your fault I am how I am. Again, I’m sorry.
Times change. I don’t think you should leave because your friends are gone.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 6:17 PM
State school Vs. Public school
Our son attended a private Episcopal school K-12. The thinking of his parents would be that he would be afforded a better education. I was the product of a public school education, my wife the Private route. I attended both public and private school in college for two years equally. My wife went the private route all the way except for medical school.
My son, graduating in a private high school class of 50 put him at a disadvantage in entrance requirements because everybody was an “A” student for the most part.
I will also be the first to admit my sons education would have been just fine in a public school after looking back. His vocabulary could be more encompassing and his history or social studies could have used some more work as it relates to today’s world.
My son then attended what used to be an “all male” military state school which changed to meet the slow down in growth due to the war in Vietnam and other changes heaped on universities of the “70’s”. This university is known as Texas A&M. This is similar to Virgina Tech.
I wanted my son to have the disciplined regimen of the military ROTC unit which is comprised of 2,200 cadets representing all services. He did not need the formal discipline, but it was an asset good for a first year student who otherwise might be enticed to do more than get by, especially for the first year.
He went on to become the educational mentor of his unit and graduate as the Superior Naval Cadet of his graduating class.
My final comment would be to address what his collegiate military/educational
adviser enlightened me on as to the purposes of the masters programs on school campuses. His opinion as well as those of many other faculty was that the university
Public or Private did not live for the “under graduate” but was solely in place for the graduate student. It is the graduate student and above who can teach classes on campus,do research and make money for the school while at the same time be continuing their education. Otherwise the undergraduate is a drain on the system. It’s a loss leader….but necessary.
Finally..what matters most is what you do with your assets after you graduate.
My son is currently a Navy Lieutenant in the reserves and a Manager of transportation for a major grocery firm in Texas. His education, four year military career achievements and maturity paid off in a less that stellar job market in 2009.
Again its not where you come from Public or Private.
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By: Craig on May 16, 2011
at 5:52 PM
jsri You post seems to be, well, meaningless to the topic at hand. I assumed you were making informed comments, I won’t make that assumption with you again.
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By: Noah on May 16, 2011
at 5:47 PM
Love this blog!!!!
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By: TLFF on May 16, 2011
at 4:04 PM
Great post by these ladies!
The fighting going on by the people leaving responses is hillarious.
You people need to step back and take a look at the big picture.
You really should get a life.
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By: Micheal in Michigan on May 16, 2011
at 4:03 PM
Yeah….that’s the ticket.
You’re either piling on or piling it on, aren’t ya JSRI.
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By: Bones on May 16, 2011
at 3:53 PM
Noah and James, thank you for your support of my comment.
I wasn’t talking about ownership or rules. I was talking about being sad because people are gone and the people who are the reason so many are gone don’t care. That’s because people ARE gone, and I AM sad and they DON’T care. Pretty straight-forward. James, I’m not sure why you mis-characterized me & my comments in your response, as I wasn’t talking about ownership or rules at all. I’ve been pretty kind to you so I don’t really get it. Maybe you were using me to prove a point.
At least the people who are obviously not wanted but insist on staying anyway are happy, and not bothered at all by the community that’s been disbanded. Happiness is what it’s all about. Carry on – just remember that when Margaret and Helen DO post, the jerks become immediately irrelevant, if only briefly. I guess you could call it filler. About 5 people could go their own way but refuse to, so hundreds of others find other places to be. That’s real power. Too bad it isn’t used for good.
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By: delurkergurl on May 16, 2011
at 3:52 PM
Re: Elsie on May 16, 2011 at 3:04 PM
I come from a mixed background. Anyone who has taught at a university, sooner or later, will face a situation similar to what your brother had. You know almost from the start who came from a top tier university.
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By: jsri on May 16, 2011
at 3:30 PM
Noah
Time to look in the mirror.
Usually I skim but occasionally stop to read, That’s when I comment. Most of the time I have other commitments and don’t want to waste time.
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By: jsri on May 16, 2011
at 3:22 PM
jsri, I have neither time nor interest in reading much of the stuff here, but I DID catch a little of the state university talk. It reminds me of my brother’s comments about public education.
Now designated as a “professional engineer”, he originally graduated from a state university with a civil engineering degree. Today, he serves as a high-ranking military officer and designs and builds really BIG military things, like aircraft hangers, military office buildings, runways, etc. He loves his work and is called to D.C. periodically to accept yet another award for his great projects that come in on time, on budget, and with no significant problems.
Among the people he works with at the base is someone of the same rank as him, who is generally unpleasant, downright rude and appears to lack common sense, besides being lousy at what he does. My brother doesn’t worry about the outrageous things the numbskull says or argue with him; he just keeps his own shoulder to the wheel and concentrates on doing the best job that HE can. He is content with his own successes and knows that he doesn’t have to prove ANYTHING to the arrogant officer at the base.
The point I’m trying to get to is the jackass, who graduated from private schools and universities, occasionally says something demeaning of others while ridiculing their inferior education.
So, when the jackass pontificates about lesser individuals, my brother just laughs and says, “What do I know about that? After all, I’m just the product of public education.” Then, he gets back to work and churns out some more excellent product, while the elite, arrogant guy wastes time, shows little interest in quality work himself, and trash talks anyone not as privileged or accomplished as himself.
I’m also the product of public education and state schools, as is my husband. We’ve done okay for ourselves, but my brother is a shining example of the best that “public” education can offer when paired up with intelligence, drive, curiosity, hard work, and persistence.
Woo-hoo for state universities!
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By: Elsie on May 16, 2011
at 3:04 PM
jsri it is an easy assumption to make that when you comment on a post that you are commenting on something you have actually read. Not such a stretch really.
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By: Noah on May 16, 2011
at 2:56 PM
James
And why would I “Know” that your degree is from the University of Iowa. I don’t read most of the stuff you post. Too tedious to wade through.
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By: jsri on May 16, 2011
at 2:44 PM
James and Pfesser..
The reason I don’t post as much about politics or my social views anymore is that for the most part I was degraded, heckled and in large part just ignored when I asked a question or stated what I believed. Not that I need attention or give a Rats Ass…but after a while dueling with windmills gets boring. Besides, sometimes there are bigger fish to fry in my personal life. Gotta go..dryer is done..but before I leave…
So I read this blog and gosh..some people just live to beat the crap put of others because of their political beliefs. And the funniest assumption is that if you lean right you have to be a Glen Becker or watch Fox news and are less than educated because of your beliefs. They never give you credit for possibly reading the Wall Street Journal or watching CBS or ABC NEWS.
I imagine that for some posting here, Bill Maher is a very intelligent and insightful man while at the same time not being able to realize that he just as polarizing as Beck. Unfortunately Beck and Maher are parallel in their derisiveness and encourage many on this blog to emulate them.
That to essentially call you manure is pretty school yard and petty considering they hold them self to be so righteous in past and present life. Must not have a mirror in their glass house?
I guess its just the anonymity provided by the internet and knowing they will never have to physically meet and look someone in the eyes. This provides for a very thin layer of humanity to post obnoxious and degrading material about others and their beliefs.
IMHO
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By: Craig on May 16, 2011
at 2:25 PM
Yes, state institutions can be rather provincial, but my previous experiences including living in England compensated.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 2:14 PM
If “state universities” was not implied you gave me a nonsequitar. You knew my degree came from the University of Iowa, a state institution. Yet, you denigrated the degree and ended with the bottom feeder reference. I had no other way to interpret the statement. Why would you include something which had nothing to do with our conversation? In that sense, I was not wrong. You wrote unclearly.
I’m glad you have a good opinion of state colleges and universities.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 2:11 PM
NOP
In truth, I’m an enthusiastic proponent of state universities. Costs are reasonable (by comparison) and the faculties are no less serious than those from other colleges I’ve attended. The only downside I’ve seen is their tendency to be somewhat provincial. But that’s understandable given their source of funding.
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By: jsri on May 16, 2011
at 1:35 PM
Jsri, that is all I wanted, a clarification, because it sounded as if state universities weren’t up to your standard.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 16, 2011
at 1:21 PM
James:
Wrong again. “State universities” was not implied. That’s your interpretation. I have a degree from a state university and I’m glad to have it. It opened the door for everything else that followed. But at the same time I have dealt with masters level students from a variety of institutions and experience has taught me that some graduates are considerably more capable than others. Unfortunately, the institutions from which the lesser capable ones came are almost forever suspect as a result. That’s just the way it is.
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By: jsri on May 16, 2011
at 1:02 PM
“And to have an MA from a bottom feeder institution (state universities implied) is like having no MA at all.”
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 12:50 PM
NOP
I don’t ever recall saying that I think only Ivy school graduates are educated. My personal friends would be shocked to know that I am an “elitist” (or whatever it is that you are trying to imply).
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By: jsri on May 16, 2011
at 12:36 PM
Jsri, there are only so many openings at any university, but especially ivy league schools. You know you are a elitist, (a reverse of you know you’re a red neck if) if you honestly think only graduates from these schools are educated.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 16, 2011
at 12:00 PM
NOP
I’m well aware of that but sometimes grants and scholarships can make the difference.
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By: jsri on May 16, 2011
at 11:49 AM
One of the professors at ISU said not applying for a patent after 1942 was a major and costly blunder which they did not repeat.
I don’t know if George Washington Carver actually thought of peanut butter when he was at ISU, but he might have.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 11:45 AM
My masters was not a terminal degree. I earned it in three semesters and passed my orals. During that time, I had also taken courses to earn certification to teach in community college, and I showed an Iowa State University meteorology class slides of a notable thunderstorm line the class was studying. I knew my way around ISU’s campus because I did some research there, and my father, grandfather and aunts had graduated from ISU.
I was already on the fast track to a PHD. My committee was in place, and my dissertation was to be an expansion of my thesis. I earned a 4.00 GPA with my first semester of doctoral study. I’m telling you that to show the contrast with my 1.78 GPA at the end of my freshman year and to make it clear the University of Iowa didn’t ask me to leave because of slow progress or poor schollarship.
My Masters thesis discussed irrigation in Nebraska during the nineteenth century. My conclusions matched the thesis of one of my committee member’s just published books, though I had not read it until after I began my research. We discovered towns, not farmers campaigned for irrigation.
Midwestern style agriculture was maladapted for the region, though some soil because of its mineral content was more fertile than land in the Mississippi valley.The wet phase of the twenty year drought cycle fooled settlers into believing “the plow brings rain.” Railroad companies and others advertised for settlers as far away as Europe.
Irrigation technology spread from several technological dispersal points which were traceable to the Mormons.
The drought which culminated in 1894 was horrible because a depression had begun as during the thirties. Little more than private aid was available. Some plains counties were depopulated, and the resultant eastward movement sent Missouri Valley populations to higher levels than they have been since.
My wife and I visited Holt County Nebraska and saw part of what would have been an over 400 mile irrigation canal from Rushville to Pierce County. We met a still active man in his nineties who when he was a teenager had helped haul supplies for the builders.
I am not bragging. I am making clear the nature of my Masters Degree and beyond. I also dropped out, and when one of my former advisers offered me a job editing text books and working with the Iowa State Historical Society three years later, I declined. That made me a two time drop out.
George Washington Carver worked at ISU, Two other men, John Vincent Atanasoff and Clifford Berry worked there too. They built the Atanasoff-Berry Computer (ABC). It was the world’s first electrical digital computer. The ABC was the size of a big desk and weighed over 700 pounds. Rotating drums provided memory. It used a binary system of arithmetic.
Work was interrupted during WW11. Developers of the ENIAC machine at the University of Pennsylvania received the first patent, but in 1973 a district judge overturned the ENIAC patents and ruled Atanasoff and Berry had first invented the
computer.
I’ve seen one of the computers in the university museum.
If you like peanut butter, and own a computer, you have Iowa State University to thank.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 11:33 AM
Jsri, you should realize not all of us can get into or afford a Ivy League University.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 16, 2011
at 11:31 AM
delurkergurl,
None of us decides the rules, because this is not our blog. Some of you became too comfortable here and regarded it as your own. You became unofficial gate keepers, and you, not Helen or Margaret decided who was fit company.
I used to help moderate a blog, and we had strict rules of propriety which do not exist here. I mentioned it last summer, and some people tried to insult me. Then, Helen’s grandson wrote that, those of you who wanted to drive me away would in fact be considered trolls on a moderated board. You would be banned or suspended.
Moreover, we have Noah, who was treated horribly, and yet, he was not banned as far as I know. I agree with Noah about the past attitude. Now the situation has changed.
I don’t care what you think of me. I still like you. However, your anger or sadness fails to move me. It would be nice if I could gloat a little, or empathize with you, but I feel nothing. Your hurt feelings are of no concern.
alaskapi hoped for a discussion about what to do about global climate change. You are an intelligent woman. You might discuss your opinions. We all have free will. No one is forcing you or anyone else to leave or stay.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 10:11 AM
By: No One’s Puppet on May 15, 2011 at 4:45 PM
To answer your question.
Most graduate school programs have benchmarks to mark progress toward completing the requirements for advanced degrees. They include such things as progress in research, advanced level courses, foreign language requirements, and time in residence In the past it used to be four years for a master’s degree and seven years for a doctorate. Failure to reach any of the prescribed benchmarks resulted in dismissal from the program.
Here’s where it got tricky. A student enrolled in a Master’s degree program often left without a degree in hand, free to try again elsewhere. Students enrolled in a Masters/PhD program would leave with a Masters as a terminal degree but with no recommendation for enrollment in a PhD program in another institution. These were cruel hard facts. Nevertheless, that’s the way it often worked and is a good reason for the stressful nature of pursuing an advanced degree.
The word “University” in the name of an institution used to have some prestige although two of the most influential universities in the USA, MIT and Cal Tech, don’t even have it as part of their names. Generally it meant an institution made up of a number of specialized colleges within its structure like College of Arts and Sciences, College of Engineering, College of Medicine, School of Economics , Law etc., etc. But lately the word university no longer connotes such distinction. In recent years many colleges of lesser complexity have simply added “University” to their titles in an effort to distinguish themselves from other similar colleges. In fact, several states have recently enacted legislation that declares all state colleges as Universities. While this “university by fiat” may mask their origins as former teacher’s colleges it does not automatically raise them to the level of a university.
For more on the history of Universities Wikipedia has a pretty good beginning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_university
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By: jsri on May 16, 2011
at 9:59 AM
Mageen, I wondered the same thing. Assuming our economic future was as dire as advertised, its possible our leaders were panicked. Someone said it would fall apart within hours. Do you remember the meeting with congressional leaders at the time? Nancy Pelosi looked shaken to me also. Remember McCain acted strangely about then too. He interrupted his campaign and then resumed it.
You know how it is. If everyone is scared, and someone claims the knowledge to fix it, people will emotionally defer to him/her. We weren’t there, so we can’t judge, but Paulson may well have had the power that day. I agree with your guess.
Your comments reminded me of when a shaken Al Haig said “I’m in control.” after Reagan was shot.
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 8:37 AM
James, as you could tell I agree with your feelings on the lack of presidential vetos in the previous administration. Could never figure out what there was about the veto pen(s) that was so frightening. Now how about my question on Paulsen? Remember the day when he was front and center on TV with the news that the biggest “banks” were about to collapse – and of their own doing? He held the majority of that press conference. It seemed to be from what he was saying, his solutions for the problem, and his insistence on urgency/emergency of the first order, that this country was in effect giving him the power to run it for this occasion (only, hopefully). GWB did not look very healthy. Paulsen got his way. Was this just my way of seeing this and feeling it?
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 16, 2011
at 7:48 AM
delurkergurl, take some of your own advice and see how it pays off for you. Give opinions without judging others. The problem is with you and your band of Liberals. I have never seen James or Pfessor or even myself attack anyone, not once. Now we do return fire when we are attacked. Maybe if you and others like you just tossed out ideas on here to be chewed on without making personal calls on the posters you would get this utopia you look for. Like James, I just don’t have inclination or the time to try and keep score of who said what or to be mad at. I deal with it in a case by case basis. You treat me with respect you get it in turn.
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By: Noah on May 16, 2011
at 7:44 AM
HoneyJorumples, I feel the same way you do. Unfortunately, these guys don’t care how we feel. They have a “right” to act like they do and drive really great people away, and they’re choosing to exercise it. I’m continuing to seek other options. I feel really bad for Margaret and Helen. I was hopeful when there was a new post and everyone came back, but everyone pretty much vanished again when the sniping started up again.
I was angry. Now I’m just sad.
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By: delurkergurl on May 16, 2011
at 7:17 AM
palinshutup, how many years does Obama need to be in office before he has to take responsibility for anything?
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By: Noah on May 16, 2011
at 7:09 AM
No One’s Puppet, I agree we can override our innate tendency toward violence and bigotry through education, training and values.
I don’t like name calling and personal attacks, but folks who indulge in that behavior like any bullies cannot go unchallenged.
When this all started, I warned the group that because of my past, I did not react to the attacks in a normal way. No one paid attention, but delurkergurl understood when I told her.
My superiors used me as bait to draw some bad guys into violent behavior so they could press heavier charges against them. It worked. I learned I could manipulate cyber bullies in the same way, and make them reveal unpleasant things about themselves. For example, my MA story was a ploy to make jsri show himself to be a snob. My joking that Jean must have belonged to a special class in school was intended for revealing effect, and it worked. As I told delurkergurl, old enemies were superimposed over the people with whom I exchanged on line insults.I was fighting old battles through current posters.
Those who were so disgusted with we few that they left were akin to the Airmen who went to jail or were otherwise eliminated.
Its my character flaw, and I earned it. I turn the nastiness on and off like a light switch.
William Broyles Jr. wrote an article for Esquire, called “Why Men Love War.” The details don’t apply to me, but the sentiment does. I see it with my fellow American Legion members, though no one admits it.
I respect you. If you choose to find and read the article, could you tell me what you think?
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By: James on May 16, 2011
at 6:31 AM
CoalmostNative, the trolls that come in and out of here and sometimes talk to each other in third person were blaming Obama the day after he took office for the economy. I dont take them seriously.
Helen I just dropped by to tell you that you’ve been on my mind, I know your family is rallying around you. I hope you and Margaret had a wonderful Mother’s Day.
I hope all the moms that visit here had a great day as well.
Love ya!
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By: palinshutup on May 16, 2011
at 12:38 AM
This does make me sad. Just read the last six or seven posts or so, and saw absolutely nothing about policy, politics, current events. Just personal attacks and a lot of chest thumping. I didn’t back up enough to see how it started, and I don’t really care. If we can’t discuss the topics respectfully, then can we really blame the politicians when they can’t? All I will say is Helen’s post was 100% right on, as they always are. Too weary with all the other BS to care if someone disagrees or why, and not interested in mental gymnastics to try to prove to some pompous stranger on the computer screen why I have the right to feel the way I feel. My turn to say nighty night.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 15, 2011
at 10:16 PM
Yes James, I remember, all of us, at one time or another, have let our hair down too much at M&H. I agree to a degree that human violence and bigotry are innate, but I also think they are strengthened when they are taught. We all like to think “our kind” is the best, when we can admit that to ourselves, we can change.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 15, 2011
at 7:57 PM
Yes, Pfessor, jsri was one of those people.
NOP, the moment jsri becomes civil, it will be as if he was my new best friend. I don’t hold personal grudges.
NOW, its nighty night.
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By: James on May 15, 2011
at 7:23 PM
Surely, you remember when Jean told me I wouldn’t win any humanitarian awards after I won an argument over bombing Japan. Do you remember when I disproved Jean’s contention that human violence and bigotry are only taught and have no natural origins? Or maybe you remember when she tried to vote me off the site. Do you remember when she compared me to manure? I could go on, but someone with your superior intellect already remembers, and you choose to ignore it. .
I am not obsessed. I just have a good memory. You are obsession.
I’m checking out for the night. It will give your unusually powerful brain with its education from a fit school time to compose the words which will emotionally crush me. The ladies with the smart fingernails will surely help if you ask.
Nighty night!
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By: James on May 15, 2011
at 7:18 PM
I hope both of you are bigger men, than today would suggest, and can walk back the personal comments.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 15, 2011
at 7:09 PM
say jsri –
You were always one of those who ganged up on James and Craig…
How does it feel to be on the other side? You look kind of lonely to me. Not much fun, is it? Maybe others might feel the same way. Thought I’d point that out; I know you are big on that empathy stuff and all…
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By: Pfesser on May 15, 2011
at 7:03 PM
jsri, this all started as a reaction to Jean’s bragging about her accomplishments after I goaded her into it with a “special class” reference. Her vanity couldn’t stand it.
I was indulging in a little self mockery as contrast to what Jean wrote. It was intended to be like an anti- Christmas letter wherein the writer brags about wonderful things the family has done during the year. I didn’t think anyone would respond.
If your short term memory was good for more than a day or so, you might have gotten the connection. I’m also surprised all of those women with intelligent fingernails didn’t tell you.
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By: James on May 15, 2011
at 6:59 PM
Thanks again, Teddy and Bones. And you too NOP.
jsri, I was not trying one up manship. I was telling something about myself, this time because you asked. If you are so much smarter than I, why are you so obtuse? You asked me the questions and then you accused me of bragging. Why don’t you tell us about all of the wonderful things you’ve done and about all of the medals for heroism which hang in your closet.
When I earned that MA, it was a big deal because it was the first semester of an experimental fast track for PHD candidates. I’d like to see you try what I did in the time we had. I think you would have washed out as many did. The university later discontinued the program because it was too hard. I dropped out because of your spiritual bretheran’s bigotry. We were told veterans need not apply for teaching jobs. My veteran friends mostly transferred to law school. I chose to farm to escape the poison people like you were inflicting on our university.
You are too obtuse to notice, but I don’t attack you or Jean. I retaliate after you or she attacks. You two are obscesed with me aren’t you? I ignore you both, but you two can’t give it up. That gives me power which you don’t have over me.
A word of advice: give up the hatred. It will corrode your soul even more than it already has.
When you refer to “bottom feeders” you insult everyone posting here who’s education ended with a BA or an MA. You prove you are a snob.
“Latent misogyny” is it? Your mind really is a sewer. What is your next volley? Child abuser? Wife beater?
This post has convinced me the men who tried to kill me were better men than you.
As I wrote, you wear your vanity like a cheap suit, and you are a joke to me. If I had any doubt about who you are, this post removed all doubt. Some day I will find the appropriate punch line. You fancy little man…
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By: James on May 15, 2011
at 6:41 PM
Jsri, what the hell does this mean: “Also, I’m not sure why you place so much emphasis on having an MA. Some top tier universities I’ve been associated with use the MA as a throwaway, a sort of booby prize. And to have an MA from a bottom feeder institution is like having none at all.”
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By: No One's Puppet on May 15, 2011
at 4:45 PM
Bite me. Pathetic pretense with your “I was only kidding” bullshit. You and Jean are dried up old sticks, so fall over already.
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By: Bones on May 15, 2011
at 3:41 PM
James:
I hate to burst your self-inflated opinion balloon, but in my life I could easily top any tale you tell of your own bravado and derring-do. But I choose not to because there is no point in doing so and no one is truly interested. But I know what I have accomplished, as do many of my friends, but I see no reason to drag any of it across the internet hoping it will gather some sort of brownie points from impressionable readers. Also, I’m not sure why you place so much emphasis on having an MA. Some top tier universities I’ve been associated with use the MA as a throwaway, a sort of booby prize. And to have an MA from a bottom feeder institution is like having none at all.
If your final comment is supposed to be funny, you are pathetic. I selected some of your previous comments and tried to make light of them but you, in your infinite wisdom, couldn’t see the humor and responded in your customary maundering style. I tried to give you an opportunity to respond in kind, i.e., with humor, but your knee jerk responses seem to be all you can muster and you offered nothing that is new or different.
And you seem to have some compulsion about attacking Auntie Jean. From what I have seen, there is a number of ladies who used to respond on this blog who have more experience and intelligence in their fingernails that you have in your whole body. They discuss issues intelligently and succinctly based on their own or their family’s experiences. But your latent misogyny is pretty clear in the nature of your attacks on Auntie Jean.
And Teddy and bones, if you have nothing of substance to offer, get lost.
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By: jsri on May 15, 2011
at 3:35 PM
Thank you alaskapi. Pamya has a new fan. I love their music, and without you I never would have heard of them.
I wasn’t trying to minimize the effects of global climate change. I agree, you in the north are the first to feel the greatest change because you are so dependent on ice and cold to maintain your environment.
I agree about our southern area’s possibly becoming deserty over time. A thousand years ago, it was so dry the Nebraska sand hills blew free as the traveling sand dunes they really are. Some Indian tribes moved away.
ISU climatologist Dr Elwyn Taylor estimated that green house gases contribute to maybe 8% to climate change. He said it may not sound like much, but it compounds like interest at the bank.
5000 years ago, it was so dry the buffalo left the plains, and Indians depopulated the region.
We are no different from our ancestors except that we now live on a planet-wide scale. Like them, we are dependent on the environment which gave us life. Anything a little too hot, dry, wet or cold is a problem. We know of ancient civilizations which died because the environment changed. Unlike those folks, modern nations own many dangerous weapons.
If I ran the world, I would start an evironnmental Marshal Program relying on private enterprise, not the government to find ways to alter or adapt to changing conditions.
I’d like to see those conversations too. What do we do if the world suddenly turns colder? That problem would be just as important.
I regard this as an approaching EF 5 tornado.
Thanks Bones and Teddy. Yes, everyone has a story, and I’ll bet many of yours are more interesting than mine.
Jsri, you and Jean are relics of another time. You are nearly the only ones left.
You wear your vanity like a fancy suit of cloths. Look in the mirror. You are a joke waiting for a punch line. I must have a sense of humor, because I laugh when I think of you.
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By: James on May 15, 2011
at 10:17 AM
quyanaasinaq (thank you very much ) James.
I especially enjoyed Brule’s Stomp Dance.
This is one of my favorite musical groups here.
Pamyua does traditional music and contemporary with Yu’Pik underpinnings.
While I agree that ocean acidification poses a huge, perhaps the largest, set of problems which will affect all life on this planet, climate change or global warming pose another set which we already see here. There are a number of local studies pointing to accelerated methane release from melting permafrost already- which definitely adds to warming trends and the changes in sea ice have put villages right at the forefront of change which affects humans.
There’s a lot of talk and maneuvering going on in the circumpolar world about what good things might come of increased ability to ship via the arctic and so on but not enough about what all this might mean away from here- along all our coasts and across the country as regards water/precipitation distribution.
There’s a lot of talk here about the liklihood that boreal forestation will push north and some even already tooting on about increased forest product possibilities ( talk about counting your chickens before they hatch 🙂 ) but little talk about where south of us is likely to become deserty…
I’d rather see a rollicking good set of conversations about what is happening and what might happen than the conversation stoppers we see too often lately which seem to revolve around whether one “believes” in climate change or possible human additions to the issues.
Something is changing and the effects are more dramatic up here with each passing year. We can look at that change and adjust or we can get carried down the slope to an unnecessary crisis when it becomes an avalanche we cannot ignore.
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By: alaskapi on May 15, 2011
at 8:19 AM
JSRI What is wrong with you?
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By: Bones on May 14, 2011
at 7:48 PM
Everybody has a story. Proud of yourselves now Auntie Jean and Jsri?
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By: Teddy on May 14, 2011
at 7:42 PM
James:
Time to get a sense of humor.
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By: jsri on May 14, 2011
at 7:42 PM
I’m (a) very relieved to see you posting; and (b) very sorry to read about Harold. Peace to both of you.
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By: Molly, NYC on May 14, 2011
at 7:24 PM
I answered your questions. What’s your story?
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By: James on May 14, 2011
at 4:50 PM
Now for the promise. I was home from college before Christmas break and went for a walk as I often did at night. A twelve-year old girl from the South had begged her truck driver father to take her north so she could see snow. He finally relented, and the girl got to see snow all the way from Kansas City.
I learned this because the truck wrecked on a bridge at the edge of our farm. The father was semi -conscious at first, but the girl was fine. Both were pinned in the truck on a collapsed bridge. A patrolman stopped and kept the girl calm until help arrived. She was of course worried about her father.
No one thought to check the battery cables. A small fire started, and it soon fed on spilled fuel. The patrolman ran for a fire extinguisher in his car, and I told the girl not to worry.
It was very cold and maybe that was why the extinguisher didn’t work. Whatever the reason, we had a problem. The girl twisted and tried with all her might to free herself. Her dad woke up and did the same. The fire grew hotter, and the father begged they be shot. I tried to throw a little snow on the fire. The girl began begging too and their screams reached a new level.
The patrolman held the girl’s hand until it became too hot. I will spare you what happened next, unless you harbor some sort of purient interest in cremation. The patrolman later went crazy from guilt. I was only a teenager and didn’t know how to feel. It was all so unfair and senseless.
I promised myself that I would live a good life to give their deaths meaning. Obviously, it was a pretty immature attitude, but I was only a teenager. I planned how it would be filled with adventure and accomplishment. It is how I lived. The college pranks, the MA, and farming were all part of the plan.
delurkergurl once wrote she knew I wasn’t a troll, and I had tried to help people, but she thought I didn’t care whether or not people liked me. That’s pretty close.
Now, you can pick me apart in the kitchen or where ever you gather.
My life is gold, solid gold. I can now die in peace. I kept my promise. Make of it what you will. I wouldn’t trade with anyone.
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By: James on May 14, 2011
at 4:43 PM
jsri, I attended a four year church college so conservative it didn’t even allow dancing or smoking. Our required religion classes taught us that the world was created six or seven thousand years ago according to an archbishop’s calculations.
My best friend from high school and I attended that college because it had a lot of cute girls. Women outnumbered men by a two to one ratio. I met my wife there. She was one of the cutest and certainly the smartest one in college.
I was not religious, but I was rebellious.
Maybe it WAS a test for pre- schoolers given to we high school seniors. I was never that smart. High school teachers told me I wasn’t living up to my potential, even with A’s and B’s , but it didn’t matter. I just had a knack. I chose the grade I wanted and it was what I got. I wasn’t bragging. I was illustrating the disconnect between the high school test score and my nearly flunking out of college in my freshman year. I am bragging about surviving with three A’s when I needed them.
Nearly flunking brought challenge to an otherwise boring academic existance. Everything rested on three A’s and knowing one misstep would finish it made me feel alive. I don’t know why the limit was 1.78 instead of 2.00. It just was.
I raced cars. We raced on a four lane state highway after midnight when traffic was light. The car was moving at 120 MPH when I heard a bump. We stopped and discovered a lump on the left front tire. It was called drag racing because we raced in a straight line between two points, not on a circular track.
I worked on the river. Our crew took a boat up and down stream. We pumped water from the river and used it to clean drainage trenches and tubes. We built gates, sprayed, mowed, and cleared trash from the berm. We used explosives to build a boat harbor. The county didn’t hire anyone older than 23 because they thought the work was too arduous for men in their mid twenties.
My wages paid for half of my college education.
I told you it was a strict school. We often went drinking in South Dakota where the legal limit was 18. The dorm mother smelled it on a friend’s breath. He was editor of the student paper and lost his his job as well as his scholarship.
While I was studying for the finals which had to be A’s, a dorm neighbor asked if my room mate and I wanted in on a panty raid. Of course. One of the girls had sneaked keys out so the guys could have duplicates made. They wired and taped the dorm mother in her room after she went to bed.
Someone suspected something because the police began patrolling the campus, so we waited until 2AM. This scared the girls because the ones who knew the plan thought it was called off when we didn’t show up at midnight. I turned off the fuse box which made it even more confusing. The dorm mother broke out, and we all scattered. One of the guys and she collided between the dorms.
I had made my room mate wear pajamas under his clothes as I did. It bought us a few more minutes to get into bed before someone checked our room. We all had our stories, and stuck to them. The ones who got caught were suspended for the semester, but they were loyal to us, and though we were regularly called in for questioning, we were free. That was our accomplishment. We survived for another year.
No “champ ” was not supposed to be “chump.” I was a good wrestler. No one could beat me. One man purposely gained weight so he wouldn’t have to wrestle me. I weighed 120 pounds.
I did accomplish a few things later. I was an Air Force medic and helped save a life. I was promoted to Staff Sargent _E-5 in under four years. It was unusual at the time. My efficiency ratings were at the top.
I earned a MA plus thesis in three semesters at the University of Iowa. I also earned nine hours toward a Phd in the fourth semester with a 3.70 cumulative average. My thesis discussed irrigation in Nebraska during the late nineteenth century.
I dropped out to farm when a job counselor told me I should hide my veteran status if I wanted employment in a northern college. I promised myself that from then on insofar as it was possible, I would never let others determine my destiny. My wife and I worked very hard to buy and pay for three farms. We are comfortable after a long struggle, and we can afford to give money to people who need it.
We raised two good children, and I was able to be the final care giver for my parents during their last one and two years of life. My life is as I have planned it. I had fun, excitement and proved to myself I was brave. I could have done more with my life, but I didn’t want to. I have what I need.
Best of all, I kept a promise I made years ago. She and her father “visited” me last night, and I realized I was better because I kept my promise. My entire life was devoted to that promise.
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By: James on May 14, 2011
at 3:22 PM
James: In order to make sense of what you posted above I have collapsed two of your responses into one and pasted them in reverse order.
James on May 14, 2011 at 10:40 AM you said: “Facts are facts. They have no bias. Liberals and conservatives attempt to twist them to fit their world views, but facts remain stark and unalterable.”
But you left out the complete facts which leaves the ones you posted open for interpretation. For example
James on May 14, 2011 at 7:32 AM you posted the following regarding your accomplishments
1. “Highest score in my high school class on the Otis scale”
Of course you didn’t say which version of the OLSAT you were taking. I could assume that you were taking the version designed for pre-schoolers. In that case you have nothing to brag about. Also, the OLSAT is notoriously unreliable at the higher end of the scale.
2, “College freshman GPA of 1.78 on a 4.0 scale”
What sort of “higher education” institution you were attending? In any college or university I was associated with, anything less than 2.0 provided you with walking papers.
3. “Intramural wrestling champ”
Is the last word misspelled?
4. “Narrow escape in a drag race”
Does that mean that someone pulled down your miniskirt and stole your feather boa, but you still managed to get away?
5. “Paid for half of my college with work on the river”
That one escaped me completely. Does it have anything to do with Tom Sawyer?
6. “Escaped suspension as some were from college after a panty- raid .
What a thriller! And this is an accomplishment how?
7. “My credentials are golden.”
Fools Gold perhaps?
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By: jsri on May 14, 2011
at 12:49 PM
Facts are facts, Mabel. They have no bias. Liberals and conservatives attempt to twist them to fit their world views, but facts remain stark and unalterable.
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By: James on May 14, 2011
at 10:40 AM
As far as the tendency here to simply discredit links as having a liberal bias…
the problem is.. Facts have a liberal bias…. but PFP don’t get paid to post anything factual.. just scream bias
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By: Mabel on May 14, 2011
at 10:23 AM
I almost forgot.
Aloha! Namaste. Shalom.
Uncle James
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By: James on May 14, 2011
at 7:37 AM
Jean once bragged about her impressive accomplishments after I goaded her.
Here are some of mine when I was 18:
Highest score in my high school class on the Otis scale
College freshman GPA of 1.78 on a 4.0 scale
Intramural wrestling champ
Narrow escape in a drag race
Paid for half of my college with work on the river
Escaped suspension as some were from college after a panty- raid .
My credentials are golden.
I needed three A’s on my finals to bring my grade point average up to 1.78 so I wouldn’t flunk out. I did it while dodging the campus and city police after the panty raid and another prank.
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By: James on May 14, 2011
at 7:32 AM
“I have no interest in engaging in a master-slave dialectic of dilettantism on political science, the physical or social sciences, history or music with the likes of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, or their clones.”
I wouldn’t either if you were arguing with me. You usually lose. Do you remember when you had nothing to say except that I wouldn’t win any humanitarian awards when I proved how many more people would have died had we not used the atomic bomb on Japan? You opposed using the bomb.
Your concept of history and economics is sloppy at best.
I am no one’s clone, and I don’t regularly listen to Rush or Glen. I understand how you could catagorise me with what you believe to be a negative stereotype, because you did admit that you are a bigot. You do have a good Thesaurus, and you use it frequently. At least, you have that.
Alaskapi once said he disagreed with most of what I wrote, but he cared about me. I suggested the music, because we were discussing Native American culture. The music carries a message which might even warm your “bigoted” ( your words) heart.
As far as BS, you could fertilize our farm with what you spew.
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By: James on May 14, 2011
at 7:02 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I have no interest in engaging in a master-slave dialectic of dilettantism on political science, the physical or social sciences, history or music with the likes of Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh or their clones. The same goes for a prolonged theological discourse with Michelle Bachmann or anyone else of that sort for that matter. If I wanted that kind of discussion, I would go to our local supermarket, stock up on copies of “People Magazine”, the “National Inquirer” and the “Globe”.
The “resident philosophers of Helen’s porch” (rpHp) have a lengthy track record here at M&H’s of playing fast and loose with the “truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth” by means of faulty or selective memories. It’s called “spin”. As with most conservative commentaries, it reduces credibility considerably – to zero or even negative numbers. Further, asking their own rhetorical or theoretical questions and then pounding on the table demanding answers is quite juvenile.
That said, Juneau Joe and Alaskapi, I want you to know that right along for several years now, I have appreciated your links and personal, well written stories about Alaska. They are insights and reliable sources few of us would otherwise have an opportunity to learn about without a whole lot of time and digging. After all this time and getting to know you both, I trust your judgments. I fondly remember once when we were in Alaska, taking a helicopter and landing smack on Mendenhall Glacier. It was as if we were standing on the top of the world! Walking around on the ice in peaceful silence was one of the most breathtakingly beautiful experiences of all our travels.
When it comes to the continuing political controversy over “Global Warming” or “Climate Change”, whatever you want to call it, I think it is fair to say, it is happening. The polar icecaps and shelves are melting at an alarming rate. Whether it is part of a natural cycle or man made because of CO2, pollution, etc., or a combination of both, it is important to recognize there are inherent problems to be solved, either or both ways. Instead of being in denial about it, we should be making preparations to protect people and property before the hurricanes, typhoons, toronados, cyclones, earthquakes, floods or any other natural disasters we can name hit – worldwide. Then when the inevitable strikes, we have plenty of resources available to help after they have passed. That takes trained and well-qualified people. And BTW, that provides JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!
On a personal note, having lived through a Level 5 hurricane out here, I know what a scramble it is to cope with before, during and after such a monumental disaster. Every time we have gone to HNL since and I see the tall hotels and condos side by side right on the beach at Waikiki, I think, not what if, but whenever a hurricane hits there, those babies are going down like dominos. Not a lot of foresight there. Waikiki is only about 100 miles south of us.
So all us “lib’ral” “socialist” “commies” better knock off the hair-splitting, nit-picking bickering with the rpHp’s and get on with progressive planning. Time’s a’wastin’!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
P.S. Keep your heads down and duck! the bullshit will be flying in all directions in the morning.
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By: Jean on May 13, 2011
at 9:08 PM
alaskapi,
thanks again for the links. Bill Hess is a treasure isn’t he? I didn’t know you had Native American connections. So do I though not by blood. We live across the river from an Indian reservation, and several of my school and later friends are at least part Indian.
Here is a present, should you choose to look. Brule is a Lakota Sioux musical group including Paul LaRouche and his two children Nicole and Shane. We have met and visited with them. Theirs is an inspiring story, and their music is fabulous. They are just nice people, but even better is how Nicole attacks her flute.
Brule has their own web site of course, but I especially like Brule in concert on SD Public Broadcasting found on you tube. SDPBdotORG. If you should find them, could you tell me what you think of the group?
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By: James on May 13, 2011
at 8:58 PM
mageen in old virginny,
Well My Valerie is thinkin there is a shoe to drop because she was prepared for the worse and so far that has not happened. She works..works out and other than some “Hormonal” outbursts and the heartburn..and a few mouth sores which are treatable…she is fine…I’m kiddin bout the hormonal thing but I’m sure…no KNOW that the cancer issue and its possible spreading is on the back burner of her mind. So I’m the go to or “go AT” guy sometimes.
The deer dearly departed thing lies somewhere on highway 114 115 miles of Lubbock. In too big a shock to stop and go back. Did see a dead Boar about ten miles further that was road kill as well. He must have been on the order of 300 lbs plus. Have heard they can tip a car if you hit them.
And thanks to all for those who so understand my pain. Dear Doc in Virginia my humerus was fractured just below the shoulder in a vertical pattern. They said it was a clean break. But they were going to let me go home with just an X-ray until the Radiologist took a second look and did an MRI and saw the real deal. Arm in a sling and doing therapy on torn menescus on left knee. Look like the deer did hit me. The Knee thing was something that cropped up about a month before the fall it was an old injury that cropped up again..so yep..Lots of luck!!
Keep on polotickin ya all, it looks like an interesting year ahead. I’m for The former speaker at this point but the gate has just swung open and the cattle are restless.
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By: Craig on May 13, 2011
at 8:46 PM
Here’s Noah in a nutshell.
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/antisocial_sociopath_psychopath.html
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By: aceshigh on May 13, 2011
at 8:22 PM
and thank you for proving mine delurkergurl. You just like any other Liberal on this board have morals when they suit you. I find you obvious and contemptible.
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By: Noah on May 13, 2011
at 8:14 PM
This might be the best rant I have ever read about Fox News. Bravo.
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By: Jennifer on May 13, 2011
at 6:21 PM
Thank you for proving my point for me, Noah.
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By: delurkergurl on May 13, 2011
at 6:11 PM
delurkergurl, are you situationallly blind child? You did notice kiddo that Mikat came at me first? Of course since he/she/it is aligned politically with you, you didn’t have a single thing to say to his comment to me. How about you keep your pie hole shut unless you intent to deal out reprimands equally on both sides.
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By: Noah on May 13, 2011
at 5:42 PM
Good lord, Noah, can’t you EVER be civil? What do you get out of repeatedly peeing on the picnic basket? Act like your mama’s watching once in a while! I know it’s hard when you’re sleep deprived, but would it kill you to rise above and be an example? If it’s a requirement that you one-up on the hostility with every post, Rutherford’s tribe will welcome you with open arms. Er… closed fists. Check it out – you’ll fit right in. You seem to enjoy being hostile to women but over there you’d have opponents who will challenge you instead of look at you like a petulant child.
Craig, I’m sorry for your recent struggles. PLEASE don’t take this as wishing ill on you, because I don’t, but I’m so glad it’s not Val going through the mess you have been! She’s probably watching your misery and feeling pretty blessed herself, LOL! (Just stretching for a laugh, I promise! I know she feels your pain!) I hope you heal up quick, your luck improves, and that Val continues to tolerate the chemo well.
Mageen, I’m sorry things have gotten trickier with your husband. Hope he’s feeling better soon and that your world gets greatly simpler!
Blessing to all of the old friends who came out to offer sympathy to Helen the Great! I sincerely miss you all around here. If you’ve found friendly places to hang out, drop a note on my blog. If you’d prefer your comment to be private, just let me know and I won’t publish it. Otherwise, I’ll keep looking for you here every time Helen posts, which I hope is often and for a good long time.
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By: delurkergurl on May 13, 2011
at 5:20 PM
I know it wasn’t a trick question Mageen, but I thought he might have vetoed at least one bill. I agree, Bush was part of the problem. He could have stopped or slowed some of Nancy and Harry’s shenanigans. In my opinion, Bush and Obama are the wrong men for the job because in their ways, they both let Congress run the show.
Maybe its time for a woman…
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By: James on May 13, 2011
at 10:29 AM
James, it really wasn’t a trick question. Honestly, I thought someone would remember that he never exercised a veto in 8 years. If you don’t like what Harry and Nancy did while Bush was president, it might help to take your eyes off Capitol Hill for one blink and look down Pennsylvania Avenue for what really irritates you. Like an overindulgent father, he let the kids get away with everything!
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 13, 2011
at 9:53 AM
I don’t know how many vetoes Bush exercised. Whatever the number, it wasn’t enough.
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By: James on May 13, 2011
at 9:14 AM
That didn’t work out well. My posting this missive wrecked the chart.
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By: James on May 13, 2011
at 9:12 AM
Craig, it seems Val is having a chemo experience similar to my husband which on the whole is rather uneventful. Nothing like it used to be years ago, thank goodness. Now, a question for the general populace: how many vetos did GWB exercise and on what legislation? Was Henry Paulsen actually in charge of the country on a particular day at a certain point of development?
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 13, 2011
at 9:12 AM
Craig, you need a suit of armor or maybe extra air bags in your car. As the old joke goes, if you didn’t have bad luck you wouldn’t have any luck.
A local news story showed a dog who’s hind quarters were paralised due to an injury. It pulled itself around with a little cart a vet built for it.
I agree about the coyotes. We hear them howl every night. Occasional mountain lions roam around here. They would also eat a lot of deer if we didn’t keep killing them. On the other hand, mountain lions, especially, eat livestock, and meeting one in your back yard is unsettling.
The first link Juneau Joe gave has a liberal bias with indirect funding from George Soros. So in that spirit, I checked a Heritage Foundation site. In 2009 the Foundry posted a chart printed in the Washington Post and based on CBO and White House estimates.
Here is a rough copy:
00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 18 19
**
** **
……………………………………………………………………………………..
**
** ** **
**
** **
**
**
**
**
**
Estimated war costs were factored in.
Note that the Bush tax cuts which included all tax payers were accompanied by lower deficits as the employment rate with more tax revenue rose to as good as 4.5%. Around 2005, the New York Times wrote that revenues were rising rapidly. President Obama signed the extension into law and included a few tax cuts of his own.
The war in Afghanistan was necessary and it helped us destroy the Al Quiada leadership as we weakened the organization. It also made killing Osama bin Ladin possible. Bush also inherited a recession from near the end of the Clinton administration. 9/11 exacerbated it for a while. The deficit decline around 2004 reflected a better economy after the recession ended.
Republicans deserved to lose control of Congress because their focus was too heavily on social issues, and they spent as rapidly as stereotypical Democrats. Once they regained Congress and the power of the purse, Democrats continued their spending ways.
The recession obviously helped dig our hole, as Bush and later Obama spent money to save our economy from crashing into a depression. Before the recession, the deficit was manageable.
The CBO and White House 2009 projections of future deficits have proven to be too optimistic. We have a serious problem, and the politicians who fix it will probably be committing political suicide. We are all dependent on government aid we can no longer afford, and we want to keep ours while taking from everyone else.
On to Alaska:
Natural forces control our climate and our pollutants do little more so far than enhance what is already happening. That could change if green house gases provide enough of a temperature nudge to make all of the permafrost melt. It wouldn’t take much. Methane will then enter the atmosphere. Alaska is and will be in a world of hurt.
The direct effect of our green house gases is not climate change which does what it wants. It is acidification of our oceans. Acid will damage the biome which produces oxygen and food. We may be able to fix our economy, but the ocean is a different matter.
I read every post, including Noah’s.
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By: James on May 13, 2011
at 9:09 AM
its ok Mikat, my posts are beyond you anyway. They require you to be honest and willing to be critical to your myopic way of thinking, all traits beyond someone of your limited character.
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By: Noah on May 13, 2011
at 8:12 AM
Craig,
Man, you had a BAD week! Stick close to home for awhile and keep a low profile until the bad mojo moves down the road.
Great news about Val, I pray she gets better with every day.
Sorry to hear about the pup, I hope it works out.
JJ, Peas and Alaska,
Good info, keep it coming!
Noah,
STFU!!!!!! NO one reads your posts…we stopped a long time ago when you proved yourself to be a true idiot.
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By: Mikat on May 13, 2011
at 8:00 AM
LOL LOL Peas, Pi, Joe, raji… soooooo good to see all my good friends! Especially since we had such a good week. Fingers crossed it continues! Have you guys signed up for 2012 yet? Also keeping an eye on that NY-26. I think we have a good chance.. any of you working that?
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By: lori on May 13, 2011
at 7:28 AM
Pfesser-
wrong Alaskan credited/debited there…
Don’t be losing your grip because you agree with something one of us liberal hippie commie weirdos think 🙂
Juneau Joe-
The seasonal effects of this winter’s cold La Nina really don’t make a dent in the overall warming picture , do they?
The glacier and the icefields east of it are shrinking at an amazing rate
and Savoonga’s disaster this winter would never have happened if the sea ice was in place as per the old norm.
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By: alaskapi on May 13, 2011
at 7:03 AM
Hi Whirled Peas
Good to see you still have your sense of humor 😉
Just stopped in to say hello. It’s good to see everyone is being predictable 🙂
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By: Raji on May 13, 2011
at 6:58 AM
alaskapi opined.
“TWO BUSH WARS (on a credit card)
BUSH created the current budget deficit and President Obama has to fix the mess with NO HELP from the JOBS, JOBS, JOBS Republicans who spend their time on ABORTION AND NOT JOBS!!!!!
PRESCRIPTION DRUGS – not paid for, on a credit card. Then Bush said we cannot negotiate lower prices with drug companies or import them.”
alaskapi – Stop it! Stop it right now! You are causing me to agree with a “l’ibral,” as Jean calls then, and we can’t have that here.
(Close your eyes, Jean – it might be too much for your heart.)
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By: PFesser on May 13, 2011
at 6:28 AM
Craig –
Man, you need to go hide in the swamp! You are having the worst luck!
I think your vet needs to study his/her neuroanatomy – not that it matters in this case. If it’s just the back legs *and there are no other deficits* the problem is in the spinal cord, not the brain. Strokes are brain problems, not cord. The cord is the only place one abnormality gets both sides below a certain body level. Maybe vets call cord lesions strokes too; I don’t know – out of my field. I had a friend who made a little 2-wheeled cart for his dog (hit by a car) and the dog got around just find, thankyouverymuch.
Deer. I have over a million miles behind me and didn’t hit a deer until I moved to VA. Hit one two summers ago and one a month ago. Jesus. f’in dumbass creatures! They are everywhere here. People are shooting the coyotes, but I think we need more. Back in the ‘seventies I nearly put a deer thru the windshield at 105 mph. Missed by less than a foot; it cleared my hood and all I saw was the white hair on its belly as it went past the windshield and over the top of the car. (Of course, that was before I was saying ‘no’ so it may have been a hallucination!) (not really).
Bad deal about your shoulder. Did it get the humerus? If it got the “surgical neck” and not into the joint it may heal just fine and never bother you.
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By: PFesser on May 13, 2011
at 6:19 AM
Noah, I need your brain power to explain this one!! Do I believe in slavery?? Rand Paul says I believe in Slavery!!
Please help me Noah…. I do not understand, please explain it to me. Can I ever be smart like you Noah?? You think I can??? I just need to watch Beck – right?
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 11:46 PM
JuneauJoe, there is nothing to be ashamed about not wanting to deal with what I posted. Each and every time I have posted this information, not one single Liberal has stood up and faced the real facts. Not one found enough integrity within themselves to admit the truth. You have a lot of company in your delusion.
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By: Noah on May 12, 2011
at 11:31 PM
OMG Noah!!! John McCain said his own self that WATERBOARDING DID NOT GET THE INFORMATION THAT LED TO BIN LADEN!!! Is it true Noah???? Please tell me!! That is not what Rush, Liz, Rummie, Beck and Billo said – please set me straight!!!!
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/turley-torture-isnt-war-crime-because-its-ne
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 11:26 PM
Noah,
Speaking of facts, Has it been JOBS, JOBS, JOBS OR ABORTION, ABORTION, ABORTION? with Speaker Boehner and the Republicans?
Did I miss something about the JOBS, JOBS, JOBS talk which got Republicans elected during the last go round?
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 11:00 PM
Don’t sweat it JuneauJoe, were i faced with such overwhelming facts I too would gloss over it and distract from it anyway I could. Actually no I wouldn’t, I would man up and admit I was wrong.
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By: Noah on May 12, 2011
at 10:42 PM
Noah: You and Wayne have massive brains and bad facts!
Good Night
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 10:35 PM
ok, so like i said…you don’t dispute anything in my post.
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By: Noah on May 12, 2011
at 10:33 PM
BUSH created the current budget deficit and President Obama has to fix the mess with NO HELP from the JOBS, JOBS, JOBS Republicans who spend their time on ABORTION AND NOT JOBS!!!!! Go figure!!
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-jobs-lost-in-the-bush-and-obama-administration-2010-2
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 10:05 PM
Noah: Think De-regulation and giving tax breaks to corporations for sending jobs overseas = BUSH POLICIES, which caused the following job losses and crashing the economy! Along with 2 unfunded wars, TAX BREAKS FOR THE WEALTHIEST 2% and unfunded prescriptions and not allowing negotiating the price down. BUSH POLICIES!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 10:01 PM
btw glad to see we have the most moral infants of any nation.
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By: Noah on May 12, 2011
at 9:57 PM
JuneauJoe, what part of my post do you dispute? looks like none of it.
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By: Noah on May 12, 2011
at 9:51 PM
We are a great nation with a lot of firsts.
First in number of people in prison. First in infant morality for top tier nations, First in children living in poverty. Last in amount of money spent on helping families.
Check out this information. Hi Whirled Peas!!!
http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12691
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 9:43 PM
“The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!”
Looks like someone could use a new original thought!
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on May 12, 2011
at 9:38 PM
AlaskaPi
Winter: We did have a month of insane winds along with the near zero temps. I think it is mild if we don’t get piled on with snow. It was not that great of a year on the mountain. We seemed to have snow every other Monday and it was poor snow by Saturday or the snow was blown away.
Spring has been mild. The Glacier is looking pretty sad compared to two years ago. Climate Change is having a big impact on the Glacier – quite sad.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 9:20 PM
Education does not matter – PROFITS MATTER, according to the Republicans
http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12691
NOAH:
TWO BUSH WARS (on a credit card) – which with Rumsfeld in charge went ON AND ON AND ON. We almost had Bin Laden but sent our special forces to Iraq!! Remember WMD? Where are they? Bush gave up looking for Bin Laden after 6 months. It took President Obama to track him down and take him out.
TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHIEST 2% – without paying for them. Where are the jobs they created? The worst job growth was during the Bush Years.
PRESCRIPTION DRUGS – not paid for, on a credit card. Then Bush said we cannot negotiate lower prices with drug companies or import them.
BUSH CREATED THE DEFICIT!!!! People, even some Dems, fell for the stupidity but Bush was the brain trust!!!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 8:58 PM
JuneauJoe, riddle me this.
The day the democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009 it was actually January 3rd 2007 the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, the start of the 110th Congress. The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.
For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is “Bush’s Fault”, think about this:
January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress:
At the time:
1. The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
2. The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
3. The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
4. George Bush’s Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!
Remember the day…
1. January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.
2. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?
BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
3. Thank Congress for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment to this CRISIS by dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fiasco’s!
(BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy, but no one was listening).
And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac?
OBAMA
And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie??
OBAMA and the Democratic Congress
So when someone tries to blame Bush…
REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007…. THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!
” Bush may have been in the car, but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal and steering wheel they were driving. Set the record straight on Bush!
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By: Noah on May 12, 2011
at 8:36 PM
Hey Craig,
Sorry to hear about your negatively-charged recent events. Glad to hear Val is getting through chemo so well (even though severe heartburn is way uncomfortable). Were you able to stuff the deer in the freezer?
Thanks for keeping us up to date.
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By: Shash on May 12, 2011
at 7:52 PM
Says it all!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 7:02 PM
Who created the deficit? Bush!!! 2 unpaid wars. Tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% and an unpaid drug benefit with the proviso that there would not be any negotiating the price of drugs down. All Bush Policies which caused the deficit we now face.
Check this out!!
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3490&emailView=1
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By: JuneauJoe on May 12, 2011
at 6:54 PM
Dear Helen and all who visit her porch
I have been a fan since 2008 and take great pleasure reading your blog and all of the many responses. I am so sorry for your loss. Don’t normally voice my opinion as there are so many intelligent words spoken on your porch already. Harold will always be with you – those we love never really leave our hearts. You all rock!
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By: debbie on May 12, 2011
at 5:21 PM
She’s back!!! I’ve missed you greatly–and I’m reminded just how much when I read your recent posting. Thank you for putting into words what so many of us think and feel.
I’ll also add that I’m so sorry about your loss. I don’t know you or Harold, except through your blog, but you feel a little like family to me, and so I offer you my deepest sympathy.
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By: Caitlin Victoria Featherstone on May 12, 2011
at 4:02 PM
Good to see that everyone is in fine form again.
Lots of the regulars are back from the kitchen to visit and its good to hear from ya.
My last two weeks.
Fractured my left arm below shoulder tripping over doggie gate in house.
Oldest dog a Yorkie, has lost all feeling in rear legs and is not mobile.
On way to Dallas at 5am last Thursday to see surgical VET ran into deer and almost totaled a 01 Tahoe. He at least did not come thru windshield.
Dog did not need surgery but after $1700 in tests dog is still without a paddle. Vet says he has had a stroke and may or may not regain use of legs.
Wife Val doing well after just finishing 4th cycle of Chemo. No loss of hair and don’t think there will be..just severe heartburn from time to time.
Ain’t life grand….And Oooh Rah for the SEALS.
From a JeneauJoe post I think.. “Do you feel tax cuts for the wealthiest should be repealed? Have the tax cuts created jobs? I say NO.
I’d just like to know what constitutes rich? I have asked that question many times here and no one has defined it yet to me. Is it when you have enough left over that you can put some in savings? Or is that just being frugal with ones expenditures?
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By: Craig on May 12, 2011
at 2:49 PM
And good to see you here too Grandma Katie!
Thank you Helen and Margaret for having us all in.
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By: alaskapi on May 12, 2011
at 1:26 PM
Mageen-
aquaculture , by definition, includes the cultivation of some sort of water creature or plant. Mariculture, the term for sea husbandry, is a subset of aquaculture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaculture
The northern peoples did not do any of that. They became very proficient water craft builders , fish trap makers, and the like but did not actively cultivate the resources they harvested.
This is the known history of my mother’s people.
http://www.afognak.org/heritage/history/history-intro.php?src=ancient-afognak
See the section way down the page called :
SUBSISTENCE ECONOMY
This is an overview of our most closely related Native group’s ( to the north ) ways of living and science.
http://www.yupikscience.org/index.html
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By: alaskapi on May 12, 2011
at 1:24 PM
Alaskapi, are you actually talking about aquaculture, the wet version of the dry variety?
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 12, 2011
at 11:48 AM
You had me at “72 Virgins Just Changed the Channel”.
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By: Claire on May 12, 2011
at 8:38 AM
It hurts me to know you lost your life partner – I’m truly sorry you did. Sure, it was coming, but still, I cannot comprehend the loss. When I imagine the loss of my life partner right now – I’m devastated. My thought truly are with you.
I love reading your blog – I get a glimpse into two enriched and truly wise women.
Thank you for sharing – I mean it.
-Annette
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By: Scruffer on May 11, 2011
at 8:38 PM
AlaskaPi and JuneauJoe _ delighted to see you both!
JuneauJoe _ have tried to send you a messge on your blog. Kept hitting something and sending what I had written into cyberspace.
Helen so glad to see you back. WE all have been quite worried. Is Margaret ok? Miss her also.
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By: Grandma Katie on May 11, 2011
at 6:28 PM
Sorry to hear of your loss, Helen…..prayers are with you and your family.
Keep writing; we need your take on things!
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By: Anne on May 11, 2011
at 5:46 PM
Helen, I’m so sorry for your loss. I know Harold has been very ill recently. You don’t like to talk about yourself, but please let us know you’re OK!
Your site is one I check faithfully every day and I suspected something tragic had happened; there’s just been too much juicy stuff going on that you normally wouldn’t be able to resist commenting on!
Keep well…
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By: NMJ on May 11, 2011
at 4:27 PM
The worst of this storm has passed. Thanks alaskapi.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 4:17 PM
Its time for me to leave with my storm spotter hat. We are in a tornado watch, and a line of thunderstorms with various warnings will be here within two hours or so. I have warned my wife and the school where she teaches. Now, it is my job to watch the sky.
One parting shot Magaeen. Maybe this is what your husband thinks of you.
“I was thinking about you
thinking about me
Thinking about us
where we’re gonna be
Travel down the road
Where we come back
No one knows
but it is so good
like a dream.”
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 2:15 PM
Thanks for the information Mageen. I need to read their books. Good luck with everything.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 1:52 PM
James- there is a great deal of what built and still sustains northern peoples in this link.
It has graphic photos of whale butchering so might make some very uncomfortable.
http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com/journal/2010/9/21/the-story-of-an-eskimo-drum-part-1-when-she-gets-sung-to-on.html
Bill Hess the photographer and blogger is an Alaskan treasure in and of himself.
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By: alaskapi on May 11, 2011
at 1:36 PM
A civilization needs calories to exist, and as long as the supply is regular, it doesn’t matter about the source. Abundant wild grain grew in parts of the Middle East, societies fulfilled their dietary requirements through harvesting the seeds and killing animals which were attracted to the good food source. Of course, the ocean would play a similar role.
Yes, NOP, we are still here, and we remain our ancestors. Consider the thousands of dramas, of couples falling in love, worried parents with sick children, concern for Grandma’s or a spouse’s health, and the fear and anger when defending the group from interlopers. We exist because our ancestors were luckier and tougher than the rest, and we will never know their stories. Most of us don’t appreciate the gift they gave us.
That link was interesting reading. I’ve read some of elsewhere and think it is possible the economic threat was a factor of the decision to go to war with Iraq. Who knows? I don’t.
Maybe I read too fast and missed something, but most of the articles were several years old. A new complication is the economic deterioration and unrest in Europe as the welfare state becomes harder to support. Some economists say the Euro may not survive long term.
Its still scary. A group of economists built a set of calculations to determine our economic future. They believe if we continue as we are, the end will come with the crash of the bond market around 2017. Shades of “No Blade of Grass.”
I agree, our hosts are the gate keepers.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 1:30 PM
Thank you, everyone on the porch at Margaret and Helen’s site. Your generosity is truly appreciated. I have a correction to make. I wrote “Greer” instead of Gear. Sorry! Hungry. Went to lunch and then it hit me. Dr. Michael Gear and his wife wrote an entire series of books, all titles usually starting with “People of”. Their books are replete with descriptions of the agriculture practiced by pre-Columbian people on this continent. Very diversified agriculture, very wide spread with at least 3 growing seasons in areas such as Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. There were times when deer etc. hit a low point, sometimes entirely played out in an area but the crops always saw them through. Same for the waterways. Sometimes they were fished out what with the mound settlements equivalent to small cities of thousands. Wild rice was a huge thing, even with people as far north as Minnesota. It seems if you produced an abundance of food, more people could get busy doing other things such as building, weaving cloth, tanning hides, and even indulging in totally cosmetic stuff such as the beading and quilling found on existing garments. Fascinating stuff, agriculture.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 11, 2011
at 1:20 PM
A civilization needs calories to exist, and as long as the supply is regular, it doesn’t matter about the source. Abundant wild grain grew in parts of the Middle East, societies fulfilled their dietary requirements through harvesting the seeds and killing animals which were attracted to the good food source. Of course, the ocean would play a similar role.
Yes, NOP, we are still here, and we remain our ancestors. Consider the thousands of dramas, of couples falling in love, worried parents with sick children, concern for Grandma’s or a spouse’s health, and the fear and anger when defending the group from interlopers. We exist because our ancestors were luckier and tougher than the rest, and we will never know their stories. Most of us don’t appreciate the gift they gave us.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 1:10 PM
Oh fooey- I forgot…
I say this as someone who is working with many, many others to increase agricultural production here.
The need to provide more for ourselves which is not subject to the high costs of getting it here is very important.
There are so many things going on here to jump start agricultural production , especially in remote areas, that it is hard to keep up but it is an exciting time.
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By: alaskapi on May 11, 2011
at 12:49 PM
Mageen, no one in our family has had cancer, so I don’t know much about the day to day developments or treatment. When I was in college, my room mate’s father had Hodgkins disease when it was virtually a death sentence. He was on experimental medication.
We all were out to eat, when the father sneezed. A horrified look crossed his wife’s face, because as your doctor said, my room mate’s father’s doctor warned against even the hint of a cold. It was only for a moment, and I may have been the only one who saw, but I will never forget. The father was only one of ten to survive the experimental treatment, maybe because he was the only one who didn’t drink.
I always try to keep hope alive, because we are all individuals, and doctors make judgments based on averages. As one who was a care giver for two years, I know how it can wear one down. If we knew each other and lived nearby, I would treat you to a meal or something if for no other reason than to pay back folks who were kind to us.
Yes, I am a Jean Auel fan, especially of her first book. As you wrote, the technical descriptions seemed to match, and the characters drew me in. I’ve never read Dr. and Mrs. Greer’s books. Maybe I should. I liked the seventies movie “Quest For Fire.” I also like to read a lot and have participated in a few archeological digs of a 150 year -old town site and fur trading post.
alaskapi, thanks for the nit pick. Yes, “civilization” can develop without agriculture. One of the world’s oldest cities, near Turkey, I think was on a trade route and wild grains were abundant. The city grew without agriculture. I might be the only one who cared, but I would eagerly read anything you wrote about the development of northern civilizations.
Sometimes, I wonder if civilization would have developed without wolves.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 12:47 PM
alasakpi –
Ah, the ocean. I had not considered that. Thanks.
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By: PFesser on May 11, 2011
at 12:41 PM
Pfesser-
There’s a great deal to what you say.
The primary difference here is that most of the food comes/came from the sea.
Once peoples worked out how to make the various water conveyances they needed to chase whales et al a different set of options for food became the norm.
Yes, birds and caribou and/or moose were in the picture but most protein comes from the sea.
There’s an argument that the large marine mammals such as the whale are what allowed some communities to run around 600 houses- which IS exceptionally high for a hunter-gatherer community.
The old ways were semi nomadic for most and gathering did play an important part in the whole picture. Wild berries, greens, and roots were a necessary part of diet and while common , the short summers meant lots and lots of gathering.
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0002/gift02.htm
http://www.tikigaq.com/inupiaq_people/our_roots.shtml
the Yu’pik developed a way to ferment greens , sorta like sauerkraut, to save them and many peoples dried fish and berries and made an art of combining them with fats from whales and seal and all to store them through the long winters.
Agriculture has indeed allowed for urban life and further divisions of labor and there are many good things associated with that .
I just take issue with the idea that it is a necessary adjunct to what we call civilization .
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By: alaskapi on May 11, 2011
at 12:38 PM
alaskapi –
Your comment about the hunter-gatherer made me think a bit. Because the hunters live higher on the food chain, it would seem to me that hunting/gathering could NOT support anything more than a small society because of the food requirements. I don’t know the ratio but it would seem that conservatively an animal would have to eat at least 1,000 calories of vegetable matter to create every calorie of meat, so I would think that to live on animals it would take at least that many times more land than it would to use that land to grow vegetables and fruits to eat. (I’m sure the ‘gathering’ part would be more calorically efficient, but there’s no way wild growth can compare with cultivated crops I would think.)
What is your take on that?
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By: PFesser on May 11, 2011
at 11:57 AM
I recently commented to one of our own from here, that I had a certain idealism for hunter/gather society, it was as egalitarian as possible, everyone had to get along ,to get along, and presumably the collective, we, did. We are still here.
I want to contribute this to the Dollar vs Euro discussion; http://www.oilempire.us/euro.html Just something to think about.
And, as far as I am concerned, Helen, Margaret, and Mathew are the gatekeepers of this Blog. Maureen, I have my fingers crossed for a good outcome for your husband, even if the road is tough now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the destination won’t be worth the rough ride.
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By: No one's puppet on May 11, 2011
at 11:25 AM
Mageen-
Best wishes to your husband!And you too!
Immune system response severely depressed under many chemo regimens but if my ma is any indication strength of spirit and determination can help fill that gap.
James- nothing to do with your overall argument ,just a nitpick :
The assumption that agriculture is a NECESSARY step towards civilization has clouded the eyes of many to the deeply cohesive, well grounded cultures in the Arctic amongst others.
The so-called transition from a hunter gatherer society to a new one is but a few hundred years old here.
The depth of co-operation, valuation of elders, and sense of need for all to thrive for any to survive are the most endangered qualities of the old ways.
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By: alaskapi on May 11, 2011
at 11:06 AM
James, Mageen again. Thought about this while awaiting a phone call re: husband. Prehistoric stuff on this site makes me wonder if there is a Jean Auel fan club in existence. Have read all of her books. Compared her stuff with Dr. and Mrs. Greer on prehistoric native populations here in this country. Jean’s technicals are totally top drawer but prefer the Greers not only as technicians but for their ability to make their characters flexible and “real”. Both have given me a much wider and deeper appreciation of what came thousands of years before us. Hope that future generations can say the same about us.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 11, 2011
at 11:05 AM
Gracias, James. This was quite a surprise and a shock. He is coordinating with his oncologist and primary who don’t seem to blown away by this turn of events. He has one more chemo infusion plus pills to go and we are both, I admit, rather shook up more than we let on to each other. He was warned from the start that he was not allowed to acquire so much as even a slight common cold during chemo. We have been sooooo careful. Consequently we feel as we do, and I am kicking myself right in the middle of my naivete about this whole thing. It could be just normal for chemo patients or at least some percentage of them. Will know more from the doctors soon — hopefully. The doctors of all specialties around here don’t have a minute to spare inasmuch as there simply aren’t enough of them.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 11, 2011
at 10:26 AM
I hope that “turn” is temporary and your husband continues to react as he did. I hope you take care of yourself when you can. Your husband needs you strong.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 8:48 AM
Jean, thank you so much for the contribution of the Funny Lady at the Retirement Home! Have forwarded it to someone who knows how to put it on all the social networks. Wouldn’t be surprised if it went viral! I know that her humor made my day inasmuch as my husband’s experience with chemo is taking a turn we did not expect considering how magnificently well he had been doing.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 11, 2011
at 8:09 AM
People often lived in caves, not because they didn’t know any better, but because caves were efficient and required no work to build. People as ancient as Homo erectus built shelters.
Even Neanderthals cared for their sick and aged. One old man estimated to be in his forties had teeth so worn and was so badly crippled from injuries, he could not have survived without the group’s caring for him. His broken bones were healed, so he lived at least a few years.
Another Neanderthal died weeks after a Cro -Magnon shot him in the ribs with a spear. He was so robust, he survived and lived long enough for his ribs to heal. He either died of his wounds or the cave roof collapsed on him.
We carry various quantities of Neanderthal genes within us.
Jean, if you have any questions about our early ancestors, I’m your man.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 8:06 AM
Jean, as the PFessor wrote, so called caveman society was often egalitarian. Both genders were necessary to the group’s survival. In some cases , the caloric value of womens’ hunting and gathering exceeded what the men killed.
Before agriculture, some religions were matriarchal. Lilith, Adam’s first wife, may be one of the of vestiges of the transition between hunter-gathering and agriculture.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 7:51 AM
Tomghn, Omaha radio station KFAB, available on the internet, did a skit about Ossama’s shock when he discovered the virgins were men. You made an honest mistake when you wrote “Obama’s passing.”
The Warren Buffet-Bill Gates conversation took place at the University of Nebraska, and one of the business students on stage was our nephew. He was amused. Since he is a Filipino, stage managers put him in the front row so the camera would show more minorities.
Buffet is a local man, and a number of our neighbors own Berkshire Hathaway stock. They bought it when it was cheap.
Buffet and Gates are right as far as they go, but our government’s defining $200,000. as rich hurts small business people who don’t have access to the advantages of the very wealthy. There is a difference between assets and earned income.
Over 40% of the people are too poor to pay income taxes because of exemptions etc. Though they pay taxes, many hidden, I think they need to pay something to the government every April, even if it is only five or ten dollars to remind them our spending policies also affect their lives.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 7:39 AM
Speaking only for myself, Mabel, I don’t lob personal insults until someone else attacks me . I also offered words of sympathy. I showed your last quote about the survey showing Fox viewers to be less informed than the general public was based on biased information. In three words, “you were wrong.”
I remember when I was a minority of one and most people didn’t seem to mind the insults and personal attacks hurled at me. Jean even organized a campaign to vote me off the site. Now, that the equation is more even, nastiness is a bad thing. So spare me your lamentations. We reap what we sow.
There is no “global standard” currency as such. However, the dollar is the most commonly held reserve currency in the world. It is the unit of measure on many global commodities markets, and it is is as close to a “global standard” as we have. Its true China and some other countries are worried about our profligate spending and want another “standard” but it hasn’t happened yet.
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By: James on May 11, 2011
at 7:17 AM
I am so sorry about Harold…you have been so missed ..thank you so much for this post
I literally saw 72 Virgins hitting the remote
you are much loved ..keep writing please! OOOXXX
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By: HaikuHeidi on May 11, 2011
at 7:09 AM
US is number 1 in the top 1% owning so much wealth. Bet that makes the Koch brothers proud. How is this good?
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By: JuneauJoe on May 11, 2011
at 6:58 AM
It just occurred to me- virgins can be men, too, right?
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By: tomgnh on May 11, 2011
at 6:06 AM
I watched the Fox “special” on 9/11 to mark Obama’s passing, and it ended with shots of Bush saying “We’ll get him” and then a cut to Geraldo ejaculating red-white and blue.
No image, mention of or reference to the current president.
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By: tomgnh on May 11, 2011
at 6:04 AM
“A very small minority of the people who come to this site have taken offense at being called “trolls” by us “lib’rals”. ”
Uh, no. Guess again. Has nothing to do with one’s politics. It’s just not appropriate behavior in *anyone.* Didn’t your mother ever tell you that it is never inappropriate to be nice?
“I for one, find them at best, so repetitious and predictable it’s not worth the effort to read their comments.”
Repetitious and predictable? I hope you don’t have an irony allergy or you are a dead woman.
“Currently and for some time, the conservatives have continued to hammer away about all things involving the power of money to advance their agenda.”
Although I am highly critical of much – no most – of the current conservative agenda and am personally more of a Libertarian, that explanation isn’t even close. (straw man fallacy) Conservatives and liberals at one time were close friends, honorable men with different views but working together. Thanks to the infusion of the Religious Right into conservative politics and the invention of attack-dog politics, again IMHO begun by the ReBiblicans, conservatives and liberals hate each other and think it is de rigueur to try to obliterate each other. Frankly, I’m ashamed of both. Unfortunately we see the same kinds of things here as well. Read your politics carefully and guess again. Don’t project your own misconceptions on people you don’t even know.
“I am quoting a well known philosopher here: “How we think of the world, and how we live in society must be integrated into the way we think of ourselves as striving for a higher end [or destiny] than ourselves.” I like that.”
Too dense for me. Can you ‘splain it?
“Once we have ‘grown up’ and achieved biological success, that is lived long enough to reproduce, we find that our offspring are quite dependant on us for a number of year for love, food, shelter, caring for their health, education, protection and all the other amenities that make life worth living.”
You have perfectly stated the obvious.
“Now we could go back to the ‘good ole days’ of the cavemen when they lived in caves, grabbed a woman by the hair of the head, dragged her off to set up housekeeping, simply took what they wanted using a club, spear”
There is no data to suggest that ever happened.
“(or bomb)”
Cavemen had no bombs. I thought you were a liberal arts major. Isn’t history a part of that curriculum?
“Along the way though, some did find that mutual cooperation between peoples made for a better life for everyone. It’s called the progress of CIVILIZATION. Some of us progressives are still working at it.”
Yep. I think it is fair to say that the “PROGRESS OF CIVILIZATION” is being worked on by nearly everyone. The question of course is what is the best path. That, my allegedly octogenarian friend, is why there are different points of view, isn’t it?
Which brings us back to the central question: is it appropriate for those of one POV to silence those with others because they believe they are right and therefore are justified in forcing their view on everyone else?
The answer is no. Sorry.
“Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.”
Right back at ‘cha.
no mas, te
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By: PFesser on May 11, 2011
at 5:25 AM
Fan that Mabel! You’re spot on.
You too Auntie Jean… scroll baby scroll….
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By: lori on May 11, 2011
at 3:20 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
A very small minority of the people who come to this site have taken offense at being called “trolls” by us “lib’rals”. Often they seem to feel that their point of view is not appreciated, become angry and feel they are being attack when challenged. Thus the necessity to defend their point of view, so around and around we go.
Henceforth, I will refer to them with the less displeasing term, “resident philanthropists of Helen’s porch” since they devote so much of their generous resources and unlimited time for the benefit of the visitors to Helen’s porch. Their ‘voices’ can be ‘heard’ just as anyone else’s who cares to bother to read what they have to say. I for one, find them at best, so repetitious and predictable it’s not worth the effort to read their comments.
I’m sure all of us are well aware of the progressive and conservative views as expressed in whatever media we choose to pay attention to. Currently and for some time, the conservatives have continued to hammer away about all things involving the power of money to advance their agenda.
I am quoting a well known philosopher here: “How we think of the world, and how we live in society must be integrated into the way we think of ourselves as striving for a higher end [or destiny] than ourselves.” I like that.
Once we have ‘grown up’ and achieved biological success, that is lived long enough to reproduce, we find that our offspring are quite dependant on us for a number of year for love, food, shelter, caring for their health, education, protection and all the other amenities that make life worth living. Now we could go back to the ‘good ole days’ of the cavemen when they lived in caves, grabbed a woman by the hair of the head, dragged her off to set up housekeeping, simply took what they wanted using a club, spear (or bomb) and of course, paid no taxes. Along the way though, some did find that mutual cooperation between peoples made for a better life for everyone. It’s called the progress of CIVILIZATION. Some of us progressives are still working at it.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 11, 2011
at 12:48 AM
Thank you Donna.. “Now, whether you view this blog as a fake or not, are you willing to accept the possibility that is true? If so, look at just who showed up here and never offered a word of sympathy. Instead, it was simply another vehicle for them to either attack others or engage in the same old self-aggrandizing (complete with grammatical and spelling errors from those who claim to be such brilliant and accomplished and educated guests)” I try to use the concept of virtual ignore.. odd’s are those that you refer to are paid forum posters.. cut and paste the same song and dance. facts be damned let alone show any kind of respect. There is civil debate.. and there is what you see above… a lot of words.. a lot of insults… frankly it’s a waste of time responding to paid forum posters.. I doubt even they believe the stuff they are shoveling… Of course some could be true believers.. if you repeat a lie often enough someone’s bound to believe it..
but as soon as I see a poster resort to name calling, personal attacks and insults.. is the last time I read what that write.. note the common style theme of calling people out.. and responding to each others (or their own) posts… it used to urk me when they calls facts lies… honest people liars.. now I know they are just trying to make a a living..
I often doubt even those faux news people believe what they say.. but it pays the bills… pray on peoples fears.. racist tendancies.. etc.. it’s a sad state of affairs…
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By: Mabel on May 11, 2011
at 12:29 AM
What Warren Buffet says about taxing the rich and the middle class.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 10, 2011
at 11:00 PM
Sorry for your loss of Harold. I am sure that he had a better vantage point of the whole episode of Osama Bin Laden’s call to justice.
Thanks for a great post. It’s a pity Fox is allowed to spread such misinformation.
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By: LibertyLover on May 10, 2011
at 10:43 PM
As always No one’s puppet , great contribution. You live up to my every expectation of you. Just like our Liberals in Congress, no contribution…no plan.
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By: Noah on May 10, 2011
at 9:06 PM
Hearing of Harold’s passing has saddened me. My sincerest condolences for your loss, Helen. I’m sure he’s still with you, in a place in your heart that belongs only to him. Sometimes the dreariest night will lead to a heavenly dawn. Stay strong, lean on your friends and family.
Where did they ever find 72 virgins, or for that matter, three wise men? Certainly not on Fox!
Bless you both, and look forward to more posts in the future, you always make my day!
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By: Mac on May 10, 2011
at 8:53 PM
News for you, the dollar isn’t the global standard now!
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By: No one's puppet on May 10, 2011
at 8:35 PM
I am so sorry to hear about Harold. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Thanks for a great post. You are great at hitting the proverbial nail on the head.
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By: Grace on May 10, 2011
at 8:03 PM
Once upon a time there used to be no federal income tax, and somehow the government got by just fine.
If you create a climate where business can prosper jobs will be created, it is a fact. Liberals would have you believe that it must create jobs in 100% of the cases in order to be true. Few things are 100% true. But it is a fact that if you can lower a businesses bottom line they have the ability to hire more workers. If you raise that bottom line they cannot hire as many workers. If you feel you can dispute this bit of common sense please feel free. While this isn’t the only tool for creating jobs, it is a dandy one that works very well.
The problem with increasing taxes on business is that you hurt the small business, where the vast majority of job creation is at. Why not rather have a pay as you go philosophy? We need to reel in spending, not tax people more.
In this world we live in you are nothing short of a fool if you think we don’t need a strong military. At the same time there are logical shifts in spending that can be made to cut costs. I am for having some of our carrier fleets converted into unmanned drone aircraft fleets. I am for having a less global presence in the world. I am for giving less to other countries and taking better care of our own. I don’t think we can afford to give countries like Pakistan over a billion dollars a year. I don’t think we need to be the worlds military police service. I think it is past time we ask other countries to contribute more to their own security.
I am for heath care reform, when we can afford to reform it. I am for a lot of other social programs, when we can afford and pay for it. I would like to hear a Liberal argument that tells me how you have any moral ground to stand on spending your kids and grand kids money to pay for social programs today.
China’s economy is due to surpass ours in the next 10 years. We are going to lose our AAA credit rating. The dollar will in the near future no longer be the global standard. At our current rate of spending by 2016 we will have a $1 trillion dollar interest payment due on our deficit. No amount of taxing anyone will pay that tab. The only logical way out of this is to curtail spending. If you have a better solution please feel free to put it forth.
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By: Noah on May 10, 2011
at 6:46 PM
Helen, sorry to hear about Harold
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By: Tap Duncan on May 10, 2011
at 3:04 PM
Oh Helen Dear, I am so sorry to hear of your loss. Harold sounded like quite the guy! My prayers are with you. I’m so very glad you are back. As always you are right on! Please tell us your thoughts on Trump and Gingrich running for president. I’m dying to know. Love to Margaret.
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By: jacy on May 10, 2011
at 2:55 PM
Hmmm, I’ve been hearing that either cutting the taxes on the tip of the pyramid would suddenly create jobs. If that were true, wouldn’t it also apply to the middle and lower tier of the pyramid? Imagine! Taxes so low they are negligible! However, no standing army, navy, air force, marines. No military hospitals or VA hospitals. No State Department to work with other parts of the world for our benefit. You know the list. And no income taxes at all? Well, the last I heard we were into capitalism, so scratch that. If no one had to pay income taxes at all I figure it would work out three different ways: one third would sit on all that money any way they could; one third would spend like there is no tomorrow and the final third might invest in something that might end up creating jobs. But thats only one third of the population generating job creation and taking on all the inherent risks in such an effort. Its not enough. Two thirds would work a lot better. Add in the one third trying to hatch their money like eggs in a nest to the risks takers and then you could see something, hopefully worthwhile. Its getting that combo that will be the hard part.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 10, 2011
at 2:44 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Sheesh! The bullshit is flying in all directions. Oh well, that’s Helen and Matthew’s problem, not mine. Maybe it’s time to lighten up a bit, especially here at M&H’s. Here is a link to a fun video. It should help you to understand where Old Broads like me, Helen and Margaret, Old Farts and some of the other contributors who are getting there are comin’ from. It is a little long. But maybe you can take 7 1/2 minutes out of your busy, busy,busy schedules to watch it.
This lady, a resident of a retirement community, was asked to give the invocation at a dinner/convention of retirement community managers. She does so, but then decides to add a few words of her own as a part of her invocation. Enjoy!
http://www.caregiverstress.com/2010/07/a-reminder-that-laughter-is-the-best-medicine/
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 10, 2011
at 2:11 PM
juneaujoe…
“How about the economic meltdown the last two years of GW BUSH’S term. De-regulation and robbing by the top 1 % took the economy down. THEN BUSH GAVE THEN 700 BILLION IN FREE MONEY!”
I think someone forgot about Harry and Nancy……they were in control the last 2 years of G.W’s. term…someone also has forgotten about the battle to get TARP through congress and what the people in power(Nancy & Harry) gave us….
What I would like to know is how much of that 700 Billion ended up in the DNC ‘s checkbook…
You brought up the last 2 years how about the first 2 years of BHO….What did we get….A 2700 page bill that even the news can’t make sense out of…..Could have had a one page bill—-FUND THE MEDICAID DRUG DOUGHNUT HOLE ……but No….the Dems had to suck in some more campaign money………
Didn’t someone say that we’d be better off with the first 400 names in the phone book that with elected officials…..
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By: uawtradesman on May 10, 2011
at 9:10 AM
re: OBL and his ilk
‘Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.’
—George Orwell
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By: PFesser on May 10, 2011
at 6:37 AM
So sorry to hear of your loss. Thanks for taking the time to share your thought. You always help get through the BS. I’m keeping you and your family in my prayers.
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By: Julia Walters on May 10, 2011
at 6:33 AM
Interesting argument. I already explained why Ossama bin Ladin was able to hide in his secret home for so long. I also cited real statistics which showed the low unemployment rate during the Bush administration before the crash. I also showed the Democratic role in the recession. It didn’t require any great mental leaps to find the information. As Al Smith used to say “look at the record.”
Radio station KFAB hosts just interviewed a retired “spook.” He said analysts are looking at the materials Osama left behind to find financial and other connections. The Al Quiada leaders are probably in flight and throwing away their cell phones. Since the organization has morphed into a McDonalds franchise information found will not destroy Al Quiada.
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By: James on May 10, 2011
at 6:15 AM
Missed you, missed you, missed you.
So sorry to hear about Harold.
We need you here!
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By: Sandie on May 10, 2011
at 3:09 AM
Aunty Jean,
Agree with your last post. A rather sad state of the world in which we live – common courtesy being one of the best attributes that are lost in the anonymous cyberspace of internet communications. A trip to Waianae would fix it real fast, eh?
Flight, fight, compromise, or respecting others’ right to differ. Some people are just the best at knowing how to push people’s buttons to get the worse reactions – and seem to do it with pleasure. Hard to ignore, hard to tolerate, very uncomfortable.
For now I’ll take the flight route out.
Aloha Aunty Jean and all other parlor pie eating friends. Good night dear Helen and Margaret. Peace be with us all.
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 10, 2011
at 1:38 AM
Whiney Wayne,
I dropped out of school after the third grade. I did take a first aid class once – not quite medical school, like you.
You really is a smart feller!!! Goodnight.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 10:03 PM
GoodNight Whiney!!!!!
You have had a long day!!!! You need to regroup and eat some beans.
Hope you can find the answers, I will be expecting them in our future discussions!
Kisses
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:46 PM
Juneau, look I get you’re incredibly thick. But I have to think even a boner like you can remember back to say, oh October 2007. Do you know what the unemployment rate was then giant?
I’ll give you a hint. About half of what it is now with Zero’s management.
That’s a full four years and six years before the date I just gave. Would you like me to divide by two for you?
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:43 PM
Shall we make a 3rd bet genius? You pulled a hamstring back pedaling with the last two “facts” you published.
Something I’ve noticed about most libs. They rant and cry, call people stupid or uneducated, and then when they hear the line, “Do you want to bet a little cash on that?”, they suddenly disappear or change the subject.
I can’t imagine why? 🙂 Scream a little louder Goonau.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:40 PM
I am beginning to feel sorry for you Whiney Wayne!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:40 PM
HOW MANY JOBS HAS THE GW BUSH 2 TRILLION IN TAX CUTS CREATED?
You want more tax cuts! How many jobs were created with the last batch!!
Simple question for such a BRILLIANT PERSON SUCH AS whoever you think you are!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:38 PM
Whiney Wayne,
You are sounding more and more pathetic!!!
Mageen was trying to do you a favor and you blast her – not nice, friend.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:36 PM
Juneau,
In all honesty, you’ve got to be about 16 or around a 100. No adult can be this incapable and lame, unless dementia has set in.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:36 PM
OH Gawd. Can you glue factory nags get some new retorts? zzzzzzzzz You’ve been using that same line for 10 years now Mageen. Do you want me to make up a couple of more lines for you that you can substitute grandma?
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:33 PM
JOBS; TWO TRILLION IN TAX CUTS by GW Bush!!!!!!
How many jobs were created? Compare that number to the jobs created during the Clinton years.
SHOW ME THAT TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHIEST 2% CREATES JOBS!!!!!
You can’t!
Get a life Wayney!!!! You might try getting real facts as well.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:32 PM
Goodness, Wayne! If you tell me where your pills are I will get them for you.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 9, 2011
at 9:30 PM
Gutless and lying rube… 🙂
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:30 PM
Goonau, you’re still dancing. Answer the question genius so I can demonstrate without doubt you’re a fraud and a lemming.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:29 PM
Baby Wayne:
You so Water Board happy, you should willingly subject yourself to it 5 times to show us how it really is nothing.
I have no intention of taking your money Little Wayne.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:28 PM
Strike that – make that full employment. 😳
I’m still trying get my hands around somebody can make some of these statements from Goonau with a straight face – aghast that this man nullifies my vote. 🙂
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:27 PM
Tell me about the JOBS CREATED during the Bush term when we gave away 2 Trillion to the Richest 1%. You might also tell me how spending 1.5 Trillion on 2 Wars ON CREDIT CARDS, helps the economy and job creation.
You are full of noise and nothing else – little Wayne.
IS IT OK TO WATER BOARD A TOURIST CAPTURED BY THE TALIBAN? Water Boarding is fine? I think not myself.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:25 PM
Never did I think Poolman could look really bright in comparison. After this conversation, I retract that.
Goonau, exactly what are your academic qualifications, if I may ask? Because you don’t debate. You just rant talking points. Give me a frame of reference about your supposed genius and I’ll try to frame an explanation that even you might be able to understand.
You still haven’t taken either one of my bets either brave little man. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:24 PM
Goonau, history isn’t your bag either. I’m running out of options trying to simplify this for an abject moron.
Will a graph help?
Now before I make the effort to make this as simple as I can, will you answer one question? Because so far, all you’ve done is dance.
Do you Juneau Joe, Nobel Laureate, know what economists consider full unemployment? Well make a little review of the 2001-2010 time frame when you can answer that correctly.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:20 PM
You are saying that any soldier or American Citizen who is captured can be Water Boarded. That is TORTURE!!!! You approve of it.
So, Under Bush Rules: We can get the facts and then think about them for 6 or 7 years before someone smart enough to interpret them gets into the Presidency.
President Obama did a great job taking Bin Laden out! Thank You President Obama.
Wayne: Where is the brain power that you brag about? Brain Farts is all I am seeing.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:17 PM
Brainless WayneL
You say that tax cuts will bring in the jobs! WHERE WERE THE JOBS GAINED DURING THE BUSH YEARS! They were not there. How about the economic meltdown the last two years of GW BUSH’S term. De-regulation and robbing by the top 1 % took the economy down. THEN BUSH GAVE THEN 700 BILLION IN FREE MONEY!
You really are full of crap. You have brown matter between the ears it seems.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:12 PM
Took a while to track the courier. They had to find him first. Remember dummy? But I am going to ask you a question in return. Why did it take Obama 30 months to kill Bin Laden when he knew exactly what house he was in?
Now you answer my question Goonau. Are we torturing our SEALS? Because we are waterboarding them.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:11 PM
Goonau, are you really this clueless?
What are you? About 18 years old? You didn’t take bet hot shot. What’s wrong? Wallet a little light?
Damn, and I wanted to buy a few rounds for Pfesser or James, who are infinitely more patient than I am with hyperbole, rank propaganda, and flat out lying.
Let me open your eyes Goonau without using math or something difficult like a number, because I get the distinct impression that’s not really your bag.
Ever heard of the Depression? Ever heard of the ’81-82 recession, or when the misery index sat at the highest rate in history during the
Barack ObamaJimmy Carter era? I won’t even talk about current unemployment rates.Tell me you weren’t really serious with that statement? Please tell me Americans can’t be that dumb? 😯
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:07 PM
Water Boarding worked! Right! WHY WAS BIN LADEN ABLE TO LIVE IN THE HOME OF HIS DEATH FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS OF GW BUSH’S TERM!! Hell, according to you, he had the information. Why didn’t GW act on it.
Hey Brains Wayne: ANSWER THE QUESTION PLEASE!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:04 PM
Bones, I would tell you that Poolman is as intellectually dishonest as they come, but it would be a misnomer to use the words Poolman and intellect in the same sentence. I used to think Poolman was joking when he went off on one of his conspiracy tirades, until I realized he was serious as a heart attack. 😆
Poolman’s a Jim Jones disciple. Or perhaps Heaven’s Gate waiting for the comet to take he and his family away. Frankly, I’m shocked he didn’t go down at Waco.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 9:00 PM
Bush gave 2 Trillion of tax cuts to the wealthiest 2%. Bush has spent 1.5 Trillion on Wars, which were not paid for. During the Bush years we have lost more jobs than any time before.
Where are the jobs the tax cuts or the 2 wars are creating.
Quit talking like an idiot – answer the question please.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 9:00 PM
Goon-Old-Joe, Rambo in waiting!!!! 😈 Yeah, you strike me as real mental giant Goonau.
They waterboard our own Seals while training. Is that torture too? Any Army guy worth his salt would frag you and never claim you as friend.
You not going to take my bet? DO you know Goonau, I haven’t had a lib take me up on that bet yet? Miracle, isn’t it?
——–
Paul Krugman? Krugman has predicted the last three recessions correctly twenty times. He’s a complete joke in the economic circles – a Nobel in economics worthy of an Al Gore Science Nobel – perhaps a Yasser Arafat Peace Award. Gawd, no wonder buffoons like you are so screwed upped.
How about something a little more serious than Krugman’s opinions? Pravda available?
Look Goonau, I’m going to prove you wrong not with editorial opinion but something called recorded fact straight off the federal record. And I will be happy to link to to prove your claims wrong. But I want you to bet me first. Say we bet a $1,000 and we’ll let James or Pfesser handle the bet – they seem reasonable enough. And whichever of us wins, we give them $200 for their troubles out of the bet?
You game Goonau? Make it worth my while to demonstrate how utterly clueless you and your propaganda are.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 8:55 PM
Poolman says “Your understanding is far from true. I believe OBL is dead. I haven’t claimed otherwise.”
You play games Poolman. Wayne didn’t say that you believe Bin Laden is alive. He said “Obama is “faking” the death of Osama according to Poolman.”
Stop playing with words, loon. Yes or no. Is President Obama lying about the death of Osama Bin Laden, according to you?
Yes. Or. No.
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By: Bones on May 9, 2011
at 8:47 PM
The wane from Wayne is really kinda lame.
Your understanding is far from true. I believe OBL is dead. I haven’t claimed otherwise. You’re going to have to show me where you misread that. My question relates to when it actually occurred.
Most regulars here know where I stand regarding anything 9/11 related. I have in the past posted numerous links and opinions on that subject. Some have appreciated my POV, while others have simply scrolled on by. You offer no new revelations nor anything of value in any of your rants here. You even slander the hosts and wish ill will on the older women who frequent this site. We all know you are here merely to just drop “bombs” as you have stated and bragged specifically about on other sites. I’m certain you feel accomplished by the long-lasting stench you leave even after you’ve departed.
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By: poolman on May 9, 2011
at 7:26 PM
Wayne, You are quite stupid by the way.
Water Boarding worked! Right! WHY WAS BIN LADEN ABLE TO LIVE IN THE HOME OF HIS DEATH FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS OF GW BUSH’S TERM!! Hell, according to you, he had the information. Why didn’t GW act on it.
You are a tough guy for sure: I can set up some of my former Army buddies to set you up with the waterboarding. I had my Army time, I think torture creates enemies of my nation. I will take care of my own nails thank you.
Here is your response to your economic drivel! I hope you are able to read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/opinion/09krugman.html?_r=2
I am curious to your thoughts on the economy after you read the article.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 6:54 PM
Poolman referring to anybody by “idiot brigade” must be parody.
Did you proud libs know that Obama is “faking” the death of Osama according to Poolman? I read where Poolman can prove it by the “pointy ears”. Really. Just ask him if you’re looking for a twisted tale. It will give your a hint at the vast capability of one of your most infamous members. 😈
But this one is easy Al-Poolman, resident Joooo hater and failed business loon. All Goon-Old-Joe has to do to prove me wrong is show up to play. Even a garden variety lib can play that game.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 4:05 PM
Yes, delurkergurl the use of torture in finding bin Ladin is debatable. However circumstantial stories including cryptic statements by administration officials and others lead me to accept the possibility.
The process would have to be more complex than taking one prisoner at his/her word. The prisoner might lie or not know the information as you wrote, delurkergurl. The interrogators would ask another person who was not “tortured” about the information and ask him/her to expand on it. Other multiple sources would have to corraborate what the first person said.
Yes, prisoners, tortured or not, make stuff up. It behooves the interrogator to get the prisoner to surrender information which he/she doesn’t regard as important enough to hide.
Suppose, for the sake of argument, information gained through horrible torture much worse than water boarding made it possible to capture Ossama bin Ladin or to prevent the 9/11 bombings. Which immoral act takes precedence over the other? Should we have a moral boundry we do not cross under any circumstances?
Wayne Pearson is right about the Clinton bubble. Another thing people forget is that Republicans played an important role in the revived economy because they controlled Congress, and Clinton moved to the right. The converse is true of the Bush recession. Democrats controlled Congress after 2006.
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By: James on May 9, 2011
at 3:32 PM
Thanks for bringing joy to my day (again)! You are fabulous! Happy Mother’s Day!
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By: Adam on May 9, 2011
at 2:40 PM
Joe, pay no attention to the idiot brigade. Wane is what happens to Tex after he takes his Viagra and dons his perramus. 😎
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By: poolman on May 9, 2011
at 2:25 PM
JuneauJoe,
A weak kneed and beaten down rube male and weakling – perfect for the harpies of the world. I see you’ve already been assimilated. Perfect.
I have a challenge to your “brave” little world Joe Bob. A chance for you to prove your Moose Manhood.
I am, and believe it led to the first clues through KSM which eventually led to Osama. It is well documented by our intelligence community. Rational thought tells me it works well. I can break anyone. And if they lie which is your defense it doesn’t work, I am absolutely positive that I can make them tell the truth with twice the application upon their first lie. But if you think I’m wrong, here’s your chance to impress the
nagsladies and prove your “intellect” and “manhood” Old Joe – your one opportunity in your life to shine and take me down for the benefit of the Woman, Hear me Roar! crowd.I of course will require this in writing and your significant other to consent as witness. Helen would count too.
I will forgo my anonymity, meet you at a place of your choosing, where I will agree to let you personally “water board” me for two minute intervals. For each of the two minutes I ‘survive’ your perilous water boarding ‘torture’, I get to pull one of the nails from your hand with a pair of channel locks. Once we have reached twenty minutes and assuming you wish to continue with your torture, I will begin removing one toe at a time with a pair of loppers for each of the two minutes I receive your ‘torture.’
At the end of the episode or forever long the debate lasts, we will your ilk decide which one better represents real torture.
Do we have a deal? Time to step up to the plate and demonstrate those big cajones Joe. 😈
P.S. – Clinton’s surplus is not only a myth, but a ruse. Revenues drove the deficit downward, where Clinton came close in 1999, but never reached balancing the annual fiscal budget. I would be more than happy to bet you a serious chunk of change about the Clinton budget surplus (annual, not monthly) in that regard. Like the challenge above, let me know Old Joe.
And what were those revenues based upon? A tech bubble euphemistically now called the dot.com collapse, of which the NASDAQ has never recovered. It now sits at a little more than 50% of it’s highest value. 😉 More selective memory myth by the fans of President Philanderer.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 9, 2011
at 12:32 PM
George W. Bush…Time Traveler!
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on May 9, 2011
at 11:43 AM
It’s debatable (at best) whether torture helped or hurt the search. Some have admitted they made stuff up just to make the torture stop.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/surveillance-not-waterboarding-led-to-bin-laden/
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By: delurkergurl on May 9, 2011
at 11:38 AM
The Mushroom Cloud Brigade
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on May 9, 2011
at 11:30 AM
JuneauJoe “f Water Boarding worked, WHY WAS BIN LADEN able to live in his home for 3 years while Bush was in office?”
This one is so obvious I cannot believe it needs to be explained. You can’t get information that isn’t there out of a person simply by interrogating them. They have to possess the needed information in the first place to have it extracted from them.
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By: Noah on May 9, 2011
at 11:14 AM
Salut! Ce zici de un link exchange cu ARFE.RO? Are PageRank 3 si aproape 2000 unici/zi. Contacteaza-ma te rog pe contact[at]arfe.ro daca te intereseaza. Mai multe detalii aici: http://arfe.ro/parteneri/
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By: Cocalari si Pitzipoance on May 9, 2011
at 11:12 AM
I thought about you from time to time Mageen. I’m glad it is working out as well as it is. My fingers are crossed too.
Alan Grayson is a schumck.
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By: James on May 9, 2011
at 11:04 AM
I am so sorry to hear of Harolds passing and so wish he had been here to learn of us getting Bin Laden. My thought and prayers are with you and your family. so glad to see you girls back in cyberspace!
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By: Laurie on May 9, 2011
at 10:53 AM
Alan Grayson gives GW Bush
credit where credit is due.
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on May 9, 2011
at 10:43 AM
delurkergurl, very thoughtful of you to ask. After months of chemo wherein he did just dandy as far as side effects were concerned, he is now rather pooped. The chemo will be done in June. It has been one mad whirlwind for him certainly since the diagnosis and he went right back to work way too soon. Would love to be able to take him someplace truly pleasant and serene for some R&R bet it aint gonna happen due to expenses of late. We have out fingers crossed for a good outcome.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 9, 2011
at 9:57 AM
JuneauJoe-
Mild winter?! Spoken like a skier o neighbor o mine 🙂
Record winter winter for cold and wind though snow was short of average.
Sustained Taku winds of many days duration sunk boats, sucked skylights out of roofs, broke windows in houses and cars by the dozens, on and on…
Skiers still bummed about less snow than norm though…LOL
Yup on snow gone at sea level, avalanches by the many off mountains around town now that we have finally warmed up to over 50 in the day and bears are out and about, mountain goats visible daily from my front window…
Sick of politics but enjoying spring.
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By: alaskapi on May 9, 2011
at 9:21 AM
You go JuneauJoe! So good to “see” you.
You to Donna, you have been gone far to long.
Happy belated mother’s day to all the mother’s on this site, No matter which side of the isle you reside. I hope everyone had a happy day.
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By: Mikat on May 9, 2011
at 9:08 AM
I don’t know if water boarding worked or not, but according to what I read, the nick- name of the courier who eventually led to Ossama came after water boarding or some other enhanced abuse. Leon Panetta himself hinted important leads came from “enhanced interrogation.”
It took much longer to learn the courier’s name, and connection with Ossama. The compound was under servelance for months or longer before the murder. Finding Ossama was like looking for a moving needle in a haymow. Once they found him, they had to learn his patterns of behavior. The CIA had thought they could catch or kill him before, but he had slipped away.
Obama, Bush, and other government leaders did not find and capture Ossama. Intelligence workers, soldiers, spies, and others did the job, and we will never know how many died in the effort. I think bin Ladin was living in the compound for five years. He never left.
One interrogation method with an important prisoner was to trick him into thinking he was somewhere else as in an old Mission Impossible episode. After one man gained a modicum of the prisoner’s trust, another arrived to threaten the “good cop” with dire consequences if he didn’t persuade the prisoner to talk. He would personally send the “good cop” to some place like Minot, ND etc. and he would order the prisoner be water boarded etc. The prisoner talked.
In WW!!, a former missionary in Japan capitalized on the prisoners’ homesickness because he had been there or knew enough of their home cities to tug at their heart strings. He made them feel like people, not enemy combatants and reminded them their role in the war was over. Over time, most told him what he needed to know.
I think if done adroitly the threat of abusive treatment will work better than the actual abuse. Imagination makes one fear the worst. I also believe the old Greek story about the sun, cold wind, and the cloak apply.
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By: James on May 9, 2011
at 9:05 AM
Mageen, it’s so nice to see you. How is your husband doing?
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By: delurkergurl on May 9, 2011
at 8:30 AM
If Water Boarding worked, WHY WAS BIN LADEN able to live in his home for 3 years while Bush was in office?
PFesor: Here is a budget which will keep Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and get the budget down within the first 5 years.
The People’s Budget:
Click to access The%20CPC%20FY2012%20Budget.pdf
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By: JuneauJoe on May 9, 2011
at 7:59 AM
Leon Panetta and others have hinted extreme measures like water boarding may have helped lead to Osama bin Ladin’s capture and death. If true, I wouldn’t rule them out, but I think they should be done only after the president personally approves the deeds.
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By: James on May 9, 2011
at 7:54 AM
Dear Margaret and Helen, Harold may not be here physically but I come from a philosophy that believes he is still in the room and its worth it to celebrate that. Yes, missed your literary brilliance. Blessings on you both.
Told some folks awhile ago that Obama would get Osama and win in 2012. They were nice to me when I said that, obviously making exceptions for me based on my age (70+) and my naivete. Well, one of them did take me to lunch.
In the meantime, for all the folks on the porch — more pie.
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By: mageen in old virginny on May 9, 2011
at 7:49 AM
UAWtradesman –
“I didn’t vote for him but I’m happier than a pig in shit that he ordered the assassination of that Son of a Bitch…..should be a lot more coming….even some in the US….Way to go Mr. Prez.”
Fanned!!!
I am actually very happy with the way Bo handles himself in a crisis. I don’t see how he maintained his composure or resisted doing something unseemly to OBL’s corpse; I would have had the sonofabitch’s head on a pole. I think Bo is a man to be reckoned with.
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By: PFesser on May 9, 2011
at 7:12 AM
Helen
I’m sorry for your loss….
as for POTUS
I didn’t vote for him but I’m happier than a pig in shit that he ordered the assassination of that Son of a Bitch…..should be a lot more coming….even some in the US….Way to go Mr. Prez.
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By: uawtradesman on May 9, 2011
at 7:02 AM
Pfessor, our daughter said the nurse barely hid her disdain for her husband’s pain as she darkly made comparisons to child birth. Then, she saw the size of the kidney stone.
I agree about the crickets.
Lets see if this makes any chirp.
Florida State House of Representatives member Daphne Campbell from Miami spoke and voted for a bill allowing altrasound before abortion. Scott Randolf who is assigned a seat next to her threw papers at her and tossed her pen in the trash. He called her a traitor, and the other Democrats attacked her too.
A supporter said Rep Scott Randolph’s “temper like behavior is intolerant and juvenile.” Mr. Randolph is not unique is he?
I had a personal relationship with torture and harassment in the service when I filed a complaint against Airmen running an extortion ring in an isolated foreign base with little internal discipline. Everyone was afraid of them and no one else would testify.
My superiors wanted something bad to happen to me so they could press heavier charges against the bad guys. We lived in six man quansite huts, and one of the men who was in league with the gang had a key. I couldn’t lock myself in.
One night, I woke with a knife on my throat as they held me down. They told me how they would cut my throat if I didn’t rescind my complaint. That was psychological but not physical torture, because no physical harm came to me. Some military trainees are water boarded, and I have heard them say the same thing. I believe the association of water boarding and torture relies on a flexible definition. I don’t think we should be doing it, but there is a distinction between water boarding and true physical torture.
On other occasion, they held me down and twisted my wrist in abnormal positions so they wouldn’t leave any marks. That was emotional and physical torture, and it made me a slightly physically disabled veteran.
It didn’t have the desired effect on me. It made me mad. They were all eliminated in one way or another. Over half went to jail.
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By: James on May 9, 2011
at 6:43 AM
That’s a great chart, Joe.
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By: delurkergurl on May 9, 2011
at 4:22 AM
Jean –
I agree that there are some whose only purpose on blogs is to pick a fight, but I don’t believe there are many of those here – some maybe, but not many. I would submit that most you put in that category simply want their POV to be heard without being called “trolls” or attacked personally. And it should be no surprise to anyone that sometimes those people will respond like many – if not most – do to being attacked: they defend themselves or lash out.
Rather than criticise these people, I would allow that the fault does not lie with those who respond to attack; on the contrary, I believe it lies with those who will not let them speak.
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By: PFesser on May 9, 2011
at 1:38 AM
“What about the greatest income disparity since before the great depression? Good Thing? I think not. We are shrinking the middle class. 80% of Americans own 7% of the wealth in America. Fair? I think not myself.”
Now this is more like it, but actually, it’s your turn. That’s a good enough question. You’ve said it’s a Bad Thing and Not Fair. How would you fix it, and do you have some examples or convincing explanations of how your method would be the best one?
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By: PFesser on May 9, 2011
at 1:28 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I hope everyone had a delightful Spring Mother’s Day. I did!
It was nice to see so many of the familiar ‘faces’ show up with Helen’s new post and the outpouring of love and support we have and are giving her. She is our dear friend as many of you are. We each have our own lives to get on with and occasionally, reality intervenes and prevails. Still, we can carry on, time permitting.
It has occurred to me that it is a good idea to re-align our priorities from time to time instead of going on and on in the same ole mode of thinking. It also appears to me that there are a few of the same ones who have been coming here for some time, not to visit with friends, but for the sole purpose to pick a fight if they can. That does nothing to add to the pleasantries of constructive activity. Let’s see. If any of us has not achieved the level of accomplishments we think we deserve, are not so young anymore, not handsome or beautiful; are not slim and sylphlike, not as smart or well educated as others, have less status, less money and a bevy of other deficiencies, then we can always come tell everyone at M&H’s what a lousy bunch of losers the lib’rals are and how they should shape up and be like the perfection we personify. Then we can come back again in a few minutes or hours later and do the same thing all over again. Barring that we can always throw a Pity Party for ourselves to garner lots of sympathy.
We are too busy making judgment calls on what others say, why they say it and how wrong they are on the basis of our limited information of each other and of course, nothing more than our own knowledge and experience – whatever that may be. That goes not only for blogging but also for national and international affairs. Then we can pat ourselves on the back and congratulate ourselves on how accomplished, handsome/beautiful, slim, smart, better educated with more status, more money and no deficiencies at all! Hooray for us!!! Doesn’t that make us feel good? (Rhetorical question.)
I am appalled though at the total absence of fundamental courtesies, respect, admiration and above all affection for our hostess, Helen, who, for a very long time now, has graciously served up free pie and tea on the porch to anyone, left or right, no matter how odious. I find this kind of behavior remarkably obtuse and self-centered, especially on Mother’s Day. After all, Helen is a mother and grandmother.
On behalf of those of us who love her and hold her in the highest esteem, I sincerely apologize.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 9, 2011
at 1:25 AM
5500300007_cf782ca405_b.jpg
What about the greatest income disparity since before the great depression? Good Thing? I think not. We are shrinking the middle class. 80% of Americans own 7% of the wealth in America. Fair? I think not myself.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 10:11 PM
Snow is gone. Kind a mild winter.
I feel it is torture and water boarding got a lot of people to join against us.
What about tax cuts for the wealthiest. They have not worked. Do you feel tax cuts for the wealthiest should be repealed? Have the tax cuts created jobs? I say NO>
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 9:07 PM
JuJoe –
I think international law is clear; torture is illegal and waterboarding is torture. Seems pretty clear to me. You just can’t be doing that stuff.
et tu? What are your thoughts?
BTW, You all still got snow up there? I haven’t heard from Snowdrift Snooki for a while…
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By: PFesser on May 8, 2011
at 8:56 PM
OK Boys: Issues: Is water boarding OK? Which of you two, PFessor or Noah wants to go first?
If Water boarding worked so well. Why didn’t GW and Rummy get Bin Laden at his residence where he lived for the past 6 years?
I have a bit of time – talk issues fellows.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 8:49 PM
You know what, Noah, I have been thinking a lot about the bible recently. When I see the pickle the libs are in here on M&H, I also think back to last year, when they piled on to anyone who dared even question the ultra-left line. My, my how times change, don’t they?
The scripture I was thinking about was that part about sewing the wind.
How does that end, now?
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By: PFesser on May 8, 2011
at 7:40 PM
As I sit back and watch the show something else I have taken notice of. Not one Liberal has formulated any kind of substantive argument. Every single one has slung some mud…called someone a name, like that proved some point, and that was it. Hi, your an idiot, hi, your (insert profanity here). I understand that you have to be nuts to be liberal but do you have to be petty as well? Step up and say something other than a personal attack if your able.
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By: Noah on May 8, 2011
at 7:24 PM
Congratulations to the trolls! A definitive victor in the Perfect A$shol3 contest. WTG! Nobody can be a jackas$ like you guys! Happy now? Please go celebrate.
Good grief, please stop feeding these creep$.
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By: Congrats on May 8, 2011
at 6:35 PM
James –
That’s a pretty big rock. You really hate to split the kidney since it invariably affects renal function, but it sounds like they had no choice.
Notice the crickets after my comment about corporate taxes and how they drive businesses to move overseas? The problem with the class warfare approach is that it can’t stand up to cold, hard facts. “I don’t want to hear that stuff; just keep tellin’ me why I should hate corporations and successful people.”
Yep. Keep it up.
(BTW, it was pretty easy to manipulate the BBB to start posting again, don’t you think?)
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By: PFesser on May 8, 2011
at 6:20 PM
Helen, dear one, I’m so sorry to hear of your beloved Harold’s passing. My heart goes out to you. I was becoming concerned you had not posted, but had hoped you had not lost your husband. Sending you comforting thoughts and energy from Alabama.
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By: Cindi on May 8, 2011
at 5:37 PM
Pfessor, it was a big kidney stone, over 5cm in diameter. The doctor decided it was too big to destroy without surgery. Our son- in law reacted badly to the pain killing drugs and vomited so many times, they gave him a waste basket. Our daughter had taken him to the hospital before 7AM, and they tried to keep him comfortable until surgery after 4PM.
We had an interesting evening, especially after they put him on oxygen for several hours during and after recovery. He seemed to take a long time to recover from the anesthetic. We waited until 2AM until he became more like himself.
Our son -in law felt better after he ate. He has an infection for which he is taking medication, and he is home resting now. Our son- in law stayed home from work today but will probably go back tomorrow. He is still very tired and sleeps a lot, as one would expect.
The hospital is testing the kidney stone to learn what type it is.
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By: James on May 8, 2011
at 3:13 PM
Jackson, I totally agree with you!
Wayne: Bet you are for water boarding! I think all who approve of water boarding should be water boarded to show us that it is no bid deal. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rush, Beck, Hannity (said he would but didn’t) are all a bunch of loud mouthed fools who should be in the water board line, along with brave Wayne.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 2:41 PM
Actually, The “Waynes” of the world make me laugh. They are true idiots and don’t even know it. They make Margaret & Helen laugh as well. Doesn’t get better than that.
Party on, Wayne!
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By: Jackson on May 8, 2011
at 1:43 PM
Idiot Wayne:
I see you as the skinny twerp:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81376419/
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 1:04 PM
Idiot Wayne:
Please explain this chart to me! The cutting of taxes for the rich and deregulation, two unpaid for wars caused massive job losses. The job growth was during the Clinton Years and Clinton raised taxes. Clinton left office with a surplus.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 1:00 PM
Happy Mother’s Day Margaret and Helen!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy Mother’s Day to all Mothers on this blog!!!!!
I got side tracked by stupidity (Wayne.)
Hope all Mothers have a great day!!!!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 12:52 PM
To Wayne the idiot:
Torture worked right! Osama lived in the home where he was killed for 6 YEARS! Why didn’t GW Bush take him out the last 3 years of Bush’s term.
Wayne: You really are obnoxious and stupid: Enjoy!
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-maher-30-percent-country-will-always
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 11:45 AM
Wayne,
Got to say. You seem pretty obnoxious. Say hi to Beck and Rush for me.
Hi Donna. The idiot parade is still here I see.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/snl-gop-2012-undeclared-candidates-debate
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By: JuneauJoe on May 8, 2011
at 11:36 AM
Lovely Donna,
Back at that incredibly steeped, angelic Chatty Kitchen? {Clears throat} I though OF last November. 😳
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By: Wayne Perram on May 8, 2011
at 10:47 AM
Donna, at worst, I’m your alter ego. Your predilection for the irrelevant is noted. I’m just not blown away with your ‘intellect’ like some are here. Your toadies may give you the large clap in the echo chamber, but on the stage of debate, I don’t believe you would pose much of a challenge darling. If you would like to prove me wrong, like the other dynamic individual worshiped here, Jumping Jimmy Wright, the offer stands. He tucked tail – perhaps you can give me the I Am Woman Hear Me Roar routine and surprise me.
I think you need to donate a larger sum of money to the DNC in my name again to celebrate Mother’s Day Donna. After Zero’s historic rout, you were the first one I thought on last November. 😈
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By: Wayne Perram on May 8, 2011
at 10:44 AM
Since I truly don’t enjoy the comments here, I’m gone until the next post by the hosts. Unlike Tex/Wayne, I really do have other things to do than to hang around blogs and insult people (grammatically or otherwise).
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By: Donna on May 8, 2011
at 10:39 AM
Would you like a humorous story on Mother’s Day Donna? A laugh at my expense, which I too think pretty humorous? Self-deprecating humor? A testament to my dislike and lack of talent at “proofreading?”
On my application to medical school, which I thought sounded Shakespearean, I skipped my far more intelligent wife, and took my application directly to my mother to proofread. Nobody is better at deciphering the glaring mistake.
After my mother read my genius, she nodded and said, “Yeah, it is okay. I only see one error. You are getting better ‘Wayne’. But about this being married to the same women for twenty years…”
I’m still living down the charges of polygamy. 🙂
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By: Wayne Perram on May 8, 2011
at 10:37 AM
As I was saying, the same show–nothing different. It must be difficult to be Tex/Wayne and need to make himself feel significant by fooling himself that anyone “dances” to his predictable attempts to get a rise out of people. However, he is correct about one thing–that it’s like child’s play. And he doesn’t appear to be capable of anything beyond that. Sad foolish man who spends his time the way he does.
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By: Donna on May 8, 2011
at 10:35 AM
Since my pedantic “friend” Donna, the powerful and self-righteous attorney, is a stickler for grammar, punctuation, and especially spelling as testament of her renowned prowess, I shall begin self-editing previous posts. Hopefully, it will allow her to formulate a more worthy challenge to the information provided at hand.
Consider first posts preview tools Donna, my pal. Because I am notorious for not bothering to proofread anything, then noticing a glaring error after the fact.
By the way Donna – I ignore the rules of grammar and have since high school. If you would like to red pen my posts like the old hen, old school, ‘beehived’ hairdo women of the 60s, you have my permission without comment. My mother the English teacher would do the same. 🙂
Hear should be here. 😉 And I will try to be more careful, so it doesn’t distract from the point.
P.S. Francis – if you are a mother, Happy Mother’s Day to you. Hopefully, your own children will tell you the same – the most important occupation on earth, I might add.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 8, 2011
at 10:31 AM
Happy Mother’s Day, Wayne.
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By: Francis on May 8, 2011
at 10:19 AM
If this is Donna, the world’s “most powerful attorney”, scolding me – save the piety and the sanctimony. Anybody honest knows you’re one of the harpy hacks. Of all the people on this board, you’d be the last person criticizing anybody for bad or constructive behavior. The real fact is I play your game and am better at it Donna. You used to do the very same thing. Childish? Maybe. Constructive? Probably not. Humorous? You betcha.
I’m not here to change minds Donna. Surely you’re not that naive. I’m hear to set the record straight through the left’s lies, innuendo, rank propaganda, duplicitous behavior, hypocrisy, and double standards just to watch you lemmings dance.
You act is if being booted from the hypocrite’s board who can’t defend their argument is some mark of shame. Quite the contrary Donna the DNC donor, it only demonstrates how incredibly lame and dishonest you and your ilk’s arguments are.
It’s like child’s play. Really, it is.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 8, 2011
at 10:14 AM
Brava Donna!
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By: Francis on May 8, 2011
at 9:28 AM
Well said, Donna.
Scooby, Come Home!
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By: lass o delight on May 8, 2011
at 8:11 AM
This has been interesting. Given the long time since the last post, I lost interest in the blog several months ago. Stopping back by is like what I understand soap operas are like: you can leave them for years and, when you turn one back on, it’s as if nothing has changed. For example:
a. The post makes clear that someone close to Helen passed away. Now, whether you view this blog as a fake or not, are you willing to accept the possibility that is true? If so, look at just who showed up here and never offered a word of sympathy. Instead, it was simply another vehicle for them to either attack others or engage in the same old self-aggrandizing (complete with grammatical and spelling errors from those who claim to be such brilliant and accomplished and educated guests).
b. The same people are engaged in the same waste of time and energy. OK, Tex is back in yet another incarnation. He obviously has been banned here and it sounds like in a few other places. And yet he chooses to appear again, with his same old bets and his emoticons. What’s the point? It doesn’t change anyone’s mind. It doesn’t stir anyone up. It’s just the childish insults that seem to occupy his time in lieu of something constructive.
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By: Donna on May 8, 2011
at 7:15 AM
Wayne Perram –
Agree re: corporate taxes. Also Jeff Immelt.
Corporations pay no taxes, no matter what. They simply collect taxes from their customers and hand them into the government, since by necessity they have to pass those costs on. If all corporations pay the same taxes it’s a wash in terms of competetiveness, since they are on a level playing field – that is, corporations in the SAME COUNTRY. However when those corporations are trying to compete with the same product from OTHER countries, they are at a huge disadvantage, since their costs are higher.
So if the company is going to stay in business, it has only one choice – move its operations to other countries with low corporate taxes, taking American jobs with it. (Of course it has the choice of going out of business.) There is no way of getting around it.
So, why does the govt collect corporate taxes at all? Simple – it allows the government to collect one more hidden tax that you, the taxpayer do not see, to feed its insatiable appetite for money – and with it, power.
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By: PFesser on May 8, 2011
at 7:13 AM
Helen – as always I’m delighted to read your words. You make me laugh out loud. I hope you are okay and I look forward to your next post. Keep doing what you’re doing. You are a delight.
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By: CBell on May 8, 2011
at 5:02 AM
Happy Mother’s day M&H, friends! Enjoy your day.
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By: lori on May 8, 2011
at 3:35 AM
Pure baloney…
Taxes are taxes – state or federal. And since that is fact, then maybe you can tell me why states with zero state tax like Texas are where people are moving for employment? Is that why Texas last year added more jobs than all states combined? It’s guys like you that have brought us about 18-20% REAL unemployment. Completely clueless and an economic buffoons; probably a union hack or public shill. Pravda material.
There are a few companies that pay nothing – GE, Obama’s favorite golden boys pay nothing due to exemptions, foreign allocation, subsidies, and greasing the skids for a seat at the table as Obama donors – Jeffrey Immelt and Zero; like peanut butter and jelly. That’s why Jeffrey Immelt, without doubt the absolute worst CEO in the country was appointed by Obama to head the Jobs programs. GE’s stock price if approximately 60% of what it was when Immelt took command.
Most S&P 500 companies and virtually all small businesses pay the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world. And if you would like to place a bet to make it worth my time, I will prove you wrong. Say we bet $1,000 and I’ll give Helen a hundred for her time? Wanna bet?
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By: Wayne Perram on May 7, 2011
at 11:00 PM
Dear Helen,
My sincere condolences on the loss of your husband.
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By: Marthe Lancheres on May 7, 2011
at 10:26 PM
Pfesser,
You got the right down the middle correct, but you failed to note the weak arm of the thrower. They should use “it” to throw for the home run contest at the major league all-star game. Of course, with that limp noodle, we could be there all night.
Too easy is right. You’d think “it” would leave well enough alone, but like miniature poodle it always comes back for more butt kickings. 🙂 I guess we should at least give credit for their persistence.
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By: Tex Taylor on May 7, 2011
at 9:24 PM
@Noah-
I didn’t say the Obama administration was not responsible for any losses, just not all losses. As per the Bush administration tax cuts, they are unfunded- there was never a tax revenue stream dedicated to replace his cuts- even Bush admitted that. And most economists agree that the main sources of our federal deficit are the Defense portion of the budget, unfunded mandates (both wars, Bush tax cuts, senior drug prescription program), and Medicare/Medicaid/entitlement programs. Social Security is not part of the federal budget, and must be considered separately. The portion the Obama administration has directly added to the federal debt is dwarfed by the impacts of the items I listed previously. Yes, Obama agreed to temporarily extend the tax cuts- under pressure from the Republicans, in order to gain other things he wanted.
By the way, there has never been any documented proof that tax cuts are directly correlated to job increases, and it is a myth that the US taxes corporations the most of any nation; our rates are high, but the tax code is rife with credits and exemptions- few businesses pay the highest rate, many pay nothing.
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By: COalmostNative on May 7, 2011
at 9:20 PM
Helen, I’m so sorry for your loss.
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By: Cindy on May 7, 2011
at 9:11 PM
CO,
You’re a step up in your fantasies from the previous nimrods. However, your lies are still lies, your misdirection to charges in hand noted. Let’s review for the rubes like jsri…
I never mentioned the stock market. If the stock market were indicator of successful policy, George Bush would be a genius – the S&P was 200 points higher during the Bush 2nd term than it is now. Strike one.
That’s part of it, but only a fraction. The Bush tax cuts brought us full employment for three years. Baloney. I thought Zero gave us even more tax cuts? I guess Zero didn’t agree with you either. Your math is standard fare of M&H. Here’s a fact that you dweebs should set to memory so you don’t look so inane.
If we taxed everybody making over $100K a year 100% of their taxable income, it would not pay for Zero’s budget. I understand math is not the resident rube’s forte here, but the “it’s Bush’s fault” has run its course and been ruled void as of last November. Time for you to make up a new excuse. Strike 2
Really. Billions to the treasury, hey? And what of Fannie and Freddie? Did I mention Government Motors? Utter failure. You have a very selective memory, as do most lefties. Strike 3.
http://www.businessinsider.com/gm-bailout-was-a-total-failure-2010-4
I can go on, but there’s no need. One out of seven Americans are now on food stamps thanks to your messiah… You’re out.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 7, 2011
at 8:55 PM
Victor, I guess I should be more surprised but I am still amazed how you and your kind so readily would surrender our constitutional rights of free speech for an easier political victory.
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By: Noah on May 7, 2011
at 8:24 PM
Sorry for your loss, Helen.
I don’t want to see Fox banned. I want people to realize it isn’t news but very cheap entertainment, then lose interest.
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By: Victor on May 7, 2011
at 8:04 PM
“Noah and pfesser:
I don’t recall addressing either of you directly lately so just butt out.”
When they put one right down the strike zone, it is immoral to not swing. The only crime is that it is just too easy.
You’re not into BDSM are you? Specifically masochism?
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By: PFesser on May 7, 2011
at 7:18 PM
Along with the others, I wish to offer my condolences on your loss. It’s good to have you back. Perhaps knowing that you hold a special place in the hearts of so many can help ease the pain of your loss. As usual, I agreed with everything you said. As a FORMER Republican, I am ashamed at how they have become so inhuman. Not only is common courtesy no longer common, on the rare occasion one tries to treat someone with common courtesy, the rabid right calls it being “politically correct” and uses the term as if it is a horrible sin which they hope to never commit.
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By: Paige on May 7, 2011
at 7:02 PM
litebug, you should actually listen to the other side of your communist isle and see that they did indeed give Obama mega props for how he handled Osama.
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By: Noah on May 7, 2011
at 6:40 PM
jsri, don’t sweat it, its a rare day when you say anything of substance. Insult at will, just shows your lack of character and intelligence.
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By: Noah on May 7, 2011
at 6:39 PM
I see today that the old bunch has cluttered up space with their ususal nonsense and f course no messages for HelenJean, I nunderstand your experiences with some Eastern PHilosophy. I have been fortunate enough to get instruction in two levels of Reiki, workshop with Donna Eden in Energy Medicine a bit of some others. Very fascinating w hat can be done with them.
Also Tai Chi. Great exercise.
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By: Grandma Katie on May 7, 2011
at 6:11 PM
I am so glad to see a new post from you. I’ve been checking ever since January and was worried. I am sorry to hear that Harold has passed away. My husband of 35 years died March 9th of esophageal cancer so I can understand what you are going through.
You are right on about wanting to see the end of FAUX NOISE. The way these Reich-wingers have tried to grab the glory from Obama has been nauseating but par for the course for their ilk. There is nothing too low for them. They have no class and are a bunch of hypocritical, whining, cry-baby bullies.
They are trying to forget Dubya saying that he no longer worried about Bin Laden or that he disbanded the unit assigned to catch him, much less that, under false pretenses, he started an illegal war that had nothing to do with 911, wasted billions of dollars and killed/maimed/displaced many thousands.
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By: litebug on May 7, 2011
at 5:36 PM
I agree, Auntie Jean. Good post. Unfortunately the majority of our current culture here in the US of A is of the mind that we possess the superior intellect/culture/nation/methodology. The practices of these older cultures are usually considered inferior. I think we are too arrogant and have lost much “civilized” ground for it.
Very true. That and the greed thing… 😉
Good to see so many familiar “faces”. 😀
I see the infamous tag team match is in full swing already…
Wayne is in for Tex and Noah for Tammy. 🙄
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By: poolman on May 7, 2011
at 5:00 PM
Noah
I’ll save you from having to make the comment.
Thin skin, thick head.
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By: jsri on May 7, 2011
at 3:53 PM
While I was glad to hear that there was a new post, I’m sorry to find out about Harold. My condolences on your and your family’s loss. May he rest in peace.
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By: Donna on May 7, 2011
at 3:30 PM
COalmostNative, could you explain to me how Obama has no skin in how our economy has played out being in his 3rd year as President? With the amount he has added to the national debt I wonder how you might make this argument stick. Also remember this man of the people, when it came time to give out aid, chose to aid the corporations. When Bush decided to hand out money, he gave checks to every working person, not corporations.
jsri, if you are going to comment on a public board you leave yourself open for everyone to comment on it. Grow a thicker skin kiddo.
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By: Noah on May 7, 2011
at 3:21 PM
Wayne-
Please check your facts and numbers, as you have some inaccuracies.
The stock market crash and recession started under the last Bush administration, so blaming the Obama administration for all the losses is false. The increase in debt is due partially to TARP borrowings, but mainly to the unfunded costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars, the Senior Drug Prescription program, and the Bush tax cuts (which were temporarily extended by the Obama administration). The Bailout has been profitable, leading to billions in interest paid into the Treasury.
Note that the Republican plans so far do nothing about the continued unfunded mandates, as they refuse to even consider raising taxes; they also do not make any real, lasting cuts to the ballooning Defense budget- both Obama and Gates recommended ending wasteful weapons programs, only to have GOP Legislators fight to put them back into the budget, under the guise of “jobs”.
My research comes from a variety of sources, including the Wall Street Journal and Forbes online.
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By: COalmostNative on May 7, 2011
at 2:00 PM
May I add my condolences to the warmth and caring of all who posted about the passing of Harold. Sending hugs your way… Blessed be.
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By: COalmostNative on May 7, 2011
at 1:45 PM
Wayne:
Once more you show what a worthless POS you really are. Nobody really has to point that out to the public, you do it every time you post.
Noah and pfesser:
I don’t recall addressing either of you directly lately so just butt out.
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By: jsri on May 7, 2011
at 12:17 PM
So sorry to hear of Harold passing. May he rest in peace.
Love to you. You are one special lady :O)
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By: wilson201 on May 6, 2011
at 9:21 PM
Thanks for posting, Helen. May God comfort you and your family.
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By: Helen2 on May 6, 2011
at 8:21 PM
Jumping Jimmy Wright of Cowardly Nation? ** GUFFAW **
Why would I waste my time with that cowardly censor and miniature boner? Even Jimmy’s home pictures are humorous – as ugly as modern art piece. I might stop by sometime just to mock Jimbo’s abject ignorance some more, but I’m not going to bother reading that schmuck.
I think Jimmy is an utter moron and lemming that can’t even answer a real question when posed. He makes this place look like MENSA.
No thanks…but if he wants to prove me wrong, he’s had the invite.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 6, 2011
at 8:07 PM
palin,
Nah, not all of it. I give credit where credit is justly due. Just $5Trillion debt in 30 months, 3.3MM jobs lost, $862Billion slush fund that added nothing, an addition 2.2% published unemployment and 6.8% real unemployment. Did I mention Zero promised to half the deficit, then tripled it? Outstanding..
I have been mistaken – I said the night the Imbecile-in-Chief elected, this is Jimmy Carter all over again. Zero has been far worse than I ever dreamed. Jimmy Carter is now the best case scenario.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 6, 2011
at 7:59 PM
I’m glad you find rube the sincerest form of flattery. I’ll continue to use it to keep you flattered and use you as example to make my point of why I find liberals cowardly, hollow, unedifying, shallow, superficial, hypocritical, godless, cheap, inane. So consider it a win win situation for us jsri.
I have no desire to determine the composition of feces. Just enough to know I don’t want to be around either.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 6, 2011
at 7:54 PM
I’m glad you find rube the sincerest form of flattery. I’ll continue to use it to keep you flattered and use you as example to make my point of liberals are cowardly, hollow, unedifying, shallow, superficial, hypocritical, godless, cheap, inane. So consider it a win win situation for us jsri.
I have no desire to determine the composition of feces. Just enough to know I don’t want to be around either.
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By: Tex Taylor on May 6, 2011
at 7:52 PM
I am sorry for your loss, Helen.
as for Fox, the night the President announced Bin Laden’s death was the first time I had watched it since January 20, 2009. I couldn’t help myself. they had Geraldo do the talking, because they just didn’t want to admit it.
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By: rikyrah on May 6, 2011
at 7:07 PM
Helen, you made the front page of Kos. 🙂
http://www.dailykos.com/
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By: delurkergurl on May 6, 2011
at 6:56 PM
PSU 😉
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By: lori on May 6, 2011
at 6:21 PM
jsri “Here, for your edification, are a few definitions. Liberals are kind, forgiving, broadminded, patient, tolerant unprejudiced, unbigoted, generous, magnanimous, beneficent, and charitable.”
Ok, you do understand the hypocritical of this statement especially coming from you? You do understand that ideals, are supposed to be true all the time? Could you show me a time when the vast majority of this boards Liberals were that way when dealing with a non liberal? Because I can show you scores of times when they were the exact opposite.
palinshutup ” Wayne only proved his ignorance when he blamed the entire condition of our economy on Obama. ”
As mentioned in another thread. Obama in the first two years of his presidency has added more to the national debt than the previous 43 Presidents combined. While the entire blame cannot be laid at his feet, I do believe it is justified to attribute a great deal of it to his policies.
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By: Noah on May 6, 2011
at 6:10 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
The Bin Laden rehash is getting a bit weary so here is a little change of pace some of you might find interesting. ‘boy toy’ has been getting his infusions all day ever day at the hospital this week. He has not had any adverse reactions and they are going very well except for this. Lying there, even on a comfy leather recliner, with a needle in one’s arm for hours on end, watching the second hand go round on the clock gets to be somewhat tedious. We read, watch his individual TV, I go out for a walk to stretch my legs, etc. But still…..We will be very glad when it’s done.
Here is an interesting part though. There is a quite strong Oriental influence out here. A very well trained volunteer from Healing Touch comes in almost every day. What’s Healing Touch you ask? Printed material: “The purpose of Healing Touch is to restore harmony and balance to the energy system in order to maximize a person’s healing potential and enhance a sense of well-being. It is built on the philosophy of caring for the whole person ….Body, Mind and Spirit. Healing Touch compliments traditional therapeutic approaches of physicians and other health care providers.”
I’m sure most of you have heard of the Eastern philosophy of “Chi” or “Qi”, “energy flow”. It is similar to the Western “élan vitale” (vitalism). It is used in Feng shui also as well Yin and Yang and the martial arts. We are familiar with it but have never seen it in action before. A lovely tiny little lady of indeterminate age came in. (That’s one thing we have noticed about many Asians. They don’t age! She could be anywhere from 25 to 70!) She is as sweet as she can be with a radiant smile. She doesn’t actually touch the patient. She just extends both hands, very gracefully I might add, starting above the patient’s head and moves slowly over the aura of the body down beyond the feet. Then she shakes out her hands as if to get rid of whatever was collected and starts over again. It is quite a beautiful ritual.
I think the different cultures can learn so much about what each has to offer. ‘boy toy’ and I are of the opinion that belief is an extremely powerful force in anyone. The sum total of who and what we are. We have so much more in common with societies everywhere all over the world than we have differences. We like to experience them.
I still say, the biggest problems are now and have always been provincialism and the resulting xenophobia.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 6, 2011
at 6:04 PM
Dear Helen,
I’m so sorry for your loss, but selfishly, so happy to get your unique commentary on current events.
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By: bq on May 6, 2011
at 4:40 PM
Oh Tex, be sure to read the WHOLE ARTICLE. I know it is hard for a Neocon to read, but I trust you have had SOME good teachers in your past.
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By: Mikat on May 6, 2011
at 4:15 PM
For you Tex, we all know who you are so why try to hide it. read the following from our friend at Stonekettle station. He says it better then anyone.
http://www.stonekettle.com/2009/05/liberalism-conservatism-and-insanity.html
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By: Mikat on May 6, 2011
at 4:13 PM
LOL!! thanks Lori.
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By: palinshutup on May 6, 2011
at 3:11 PM
PSU he is the SAME troll to scroll by……
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By: lori on May 6, 2011
at 3:02 PM
Wayne only proved his ignorance when he blamed the entire condition of our economy on Obama.
Just another troll to scroll by.
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By: palinshutup on May 6, 2011
at 2:57 PM
James –
It’s pretty rare that they can’t do lithotripsy on a stone – even a big one. I haven’t seen open surgery on a stone for a long time….??? What’s up?
************
“Liberals are kind, forgiving, broadminded, patient, tolerant unprejudiced, unbigoted, generous, magnanimous, beneficent” ad infinitum ad nauseum…
Jsri – are you attempting a half-baked, crippled syllogism here? Something along the lines you actually want is:
1) liberals are good
2) I am a liberal
3) Therefore I am good.
There is an inverse statement, you know…
1) liberals are good
2) I and my buds here on M&H are flaming bigots and won’t listen to any POVs except our own
3) Therefore either liberals are not good, or I am not a liberal.
Which is it?
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By: PFesser on May 6, 2011
at 2:43 PM
Wayne:
Back again spewing your poison all over the page, demonstrating once more the depths of your depravity. Your intolerance is astonishing. And your attempt to use the word “liberal” as an invective is the closest you can come to humor. I don’t think you understand that attempts to lampoon people as “libs” or “leftists” or “left leaning rubes” are seen by many, not as rude or deprecatory but as the sincerest form of flattery.
Obviously, you have never attempted to determine what a liberal is exactly. Here, for your edification, are a few definitions. Liberals are kind, forgiving, broadminded, patient, tolerant unprejudiced, unbigoted, generous, magnanimous, beneficent, and charitable. I don’t see anything in that partial list that is deserving of the odium you heap on them.
You, on the other hand, have demonstrated many times over that the traits of liberals are not the traits you support or tolerate and that in itself says more about you than it does about the people you have set out to offend. I realize that you are not about to go away, nor will you be banned ala Stonekettle Station, but I feel that, as a long retired educator, it gives me great pleasure whenever I have an opportunity to dispel rambling thoughts found in illiterate writing. Thank you for the opportunity.
Peace be with you.
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By: jsri on May 6, 2011
at 2:24 PM
To my dear internt-Grammy Helen,
It’s great to have you back! And thanks for making me choke with that Mr. Van Susteren comment.
Please accept my condolences on the passing of your husband. ((HUGS))
It’s good to hear your voice on this and yep, you’re right – how long till we’re rid of the poison that is Fox news?
xo
carol
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By: Carol on May 6, 2011
at 1:33 PM
You’re welcome Wayne Perram, and thank you. I’m checking out now because our daughter just called to tell us our son -in law is in the hospital with surgery due at 4PM. Its a kidney stone so big it needs surgery. He will be fine, but he was hurting before the sedation.
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By: James on May 6, 2011
at 1:30 PM
Helen please accept my sincere condolences on the passing of your husband.
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By: cryptoclearance on May 6, 2011
at 12:33 PM
I am so sorry about Harold. I had hoped that your silence was because you were having a nice quiet winter.
My thoughts and prayers are with your family.
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By: Diane on May 6, 2011
at 11:14 AM
My sincerest condolences to you and your family Helen. Thank you for bringing sense and sensibility to our world. Please keep posting, I so look forward to everything you have to say. We will keep you in our thoughts and prayers, God Bless!
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By: Melissa Bocci on May 6, 2011
at 10:30 AM
Thank you James. I wasn’t going to waste my time trying to find a bunch of baloney that may fit the Alinsky narrative and fly through the rube circles as gospel, but anyone with above a room temperature IQ knows is pure bunk.
AlterNet is the ultimate Leftist hack organization, comparable to Media Matters and another in the long arm of Soros/Goebbels propaganda.
I guess Mabel doesn’t realize about 60% of the typical guys or gals walking the street couldn’t tell you the name of the Vice President. The same dolts that believed The Chicago Messiah was going to pay for their rent and their gas, before 30 months of abysmal economic failure gave them the epiphany of “Hoax and Chains.”
It’s the typical dishonesty I’ve come to expect from the rubes from the Left, but that stupidity was so grotesque in its nature, it deserved to be called.
If the Mabel’s of the world are going to continue to lie, they at least need to learn the talent of making the lie sound plausible. 🙄
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By: Wayne Perram on May 6, 2011
at 8:42 AM
Examiner.com posted some highlights of the survey results.
53% of Americans believed that President Obama was the only president responsible for the bailout of Chrysler and GM. In December of 2008. the Bush administration distributed #17.4 billion to the auto industry as part of the TARP program.
68% of Americans said the stimulus package saved or created only a few jobs. THe CBO estimates 2 to 5 million jobs were saved or created. That is a subjective estimate which is hard to prove one way or the other.
53% of Americans believe the health insurance law will increase the deficit. According to the CBO the act will reduce the deficit. Later estimates show otherwise.
54% believed the stimulus program created no tax cuts. It did.
43% of Americans believed troop levels had stayed the same or fallen during Obama’s administration. In fact, they rose from around 33,000 to 90,000 troops.
In October, Fox viewers tended to believe the economy was getting worse
Their taxes had gone up
The stimulus did not create any tax cuts
President Obama signed TARP
I’d like to know if the Fox viewers surveyed got most of their information from the talk shows or actual news reports.
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By: James on May 6, 2011
at 6:58 AM
According to a commenter on slashdot, who wrote “what asthonishes me is that so few people even bother to “click through” to find the origional source. Its terribly easy to do so on the web (due to hyperlinks.”
The slashdot story is a summery of a summary.
The news story upon which the survey was based came from a leftist news source (alter.net) and the survey does not claim that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed. The origional survey showed Fox viewers are less informed about some issues and viewers of other sources are less infomred about other issues.
“The alter.net story has drastically distorted the original poll. The story picked and chose specific issues about which fox viewers were less informed while ignoring the other issues about which they were better informed. Then the story concluded (contrary to the poll’s specific language) that fox viewers were less informed. ”
“What astonishes me, is that lefty commentors here on slashdot appear to have read a drastically distorted news story and then swallowed it whole, without any criticism or research, all the while believing that they are more open minded than the stupid people who watch Fox.
It is especially ironic that the alter.net article was complaining about bias in the news on the conservative side when the article itself was a particularly striking example of not just bias but outright flagrant distortion in the news from the left.”
I once read that during the campaign, Fox News stories were fairer to Hillary that the other networks.
Fox must be doing something right. Their ratings are good.
My mother’s name was Mabel.
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By: James on May 6, 2011
at 6:39 AM
Don’t want to distract from Helen’s wonderful blog.. so why don’t you google it.. “University of Maryland, conducted a survey of American voters that shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources” and read it yourself. Depending on one source that is proven over and over to provide false and misleading information is never a good idea.
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By: Mabel on May 6, 2011
at 5:44 AM
Oh, Helen, I am so sorry you have lost your Harold; at least, his physical presence. I hope his passing was as easy as it could have been and that you had the chance to say the things you wanted to say beforehand.
Thank you for taking the time to write this keen observation of life – that was truly generous of you, and as you see, so welcome to us!
xx VG
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By: VinaigretteGirl on May 6, 2011
at 5:25 AM
Helen, my deepest and sincere sympathy for your loss. I hope you can take some comfort in knowing how many of us truly care about you and your family. Peace be with you.
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By: avotresante on May 6, 2011
at 4:13 AM
Helen, I am sincerely sorry for your loss. My heart hurts for you. No amount of blessed memories ease a grieving heart at the earthly loss of our dearest ones, but may you find some measure of comfort in the knowledge that Harold continues to love you with a perfect love and he misses you as much as you miss him. He is obviously such a huge part of who you are as a person, and so we are grateful for his witty and wise contributions to this blog in which so many of us find community. Peace to you and your loved ones. Please know you are surrounded by the thoughts and well-wishes of MANY who hold you near and dear — even virtually.
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By: smteaches on May 6, 2011
at 1:34 AM
My 2 cents on the discussion.
Photos should not be officially released. Im sure images will eventually get out just like the beheading videos those sick bastards released.
Im not about sugar coating, sanitizing…either, only that I dont think Obama should be ‘officially’ parading photos. We dont need to stoop to the terrorist’s level. Conspiracy theorists will find fault with anything you show them, proof: the birth certificate.
Photos would create sensation not deeper understanding. The stuff Im interested in is what type of information they found and I bet there’s a hell of a lot of scrambling cockoroaches now.
About the dead un armed people they are bitching about; That’s what happens when you shack up with OBL.
Pacifist approach is not designed to win wars against enemies whose only program is violence. Even the Dalai Lama agreed when he made this comment “Forgiveness doesn’t mean forget what happened. … If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures.”
If we had consulted with Pakistan before getting OBL we would have been searching for him another 10 years.
Mission accomplished. Now lets get the hell out of there.
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By: palinshutup on May 6, 2011
at 12:25 AM
Mabel, I too would like to see the statistical proof that backs this assertion of yours.
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By: Noah on May 5, 2011
at 11:41 PM
And I suppose “Mabel” you can back that up with something other than your elderly delusions of how you would like the universe to be?
Otherwise, like so many more here, I’m thinking it’s 15 years overdue to be walked to the “glue” factory and gracefully put out of your dementia.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 5, 2011
at 11:17 PM
Helen, First and foremost my deepest sympathies, I’ve been worried about you and Margaret, and am sorry for you loss. Second.. every time you write.. my reaction is the same.. I can only hope to be as wise as you oneday, and you have a true gift with communication, you speak the truth, tell it exactly as it is, clearly for all to follow… and you see right through the bullshit. You dont even have to denounce Fox for us to know you are not a Faux news watcher, I think assorted comments here prove what studies have shown.. people who watch Fox for News know less about current events than those who watch no news whatsoever… and clearly watching too much Fox causes delusions and a detachment from reality. Thank you Helen for being so.. Helen.. and that’s a compliment!
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By: Mabel on May 5, 2011
at 11:08 PM
judith, his religion should not be a shield that protects him. Just because we have others of the same faith we can deal with on a civilized level does not mean we have to extend that courtesy to Osama and his ilk. As far as I am concerned when you do as these terrorists have done you forfeit any and all of your personal rights as a human being.
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By: Noah on May 5, 2011
at 10:07 PM
“Come and listen to a story about a man named Jed
A poor mountaineer, barely kept his family fed,
Then one day he was shootin’ at some food,
And up through the ground came a bubblin’ crude.
Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.
Well the first thing you know, ol’ Jed’s a millionaire,
Kinfolk said, ‘Jed move away from there’
Said, ‘Californy is the place you ought to be’
So they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly.
Hills, that is. Swimmin’ pools, movie stars. …”
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By: Jed on May 5, 2011
at 9:47 PM
Noah, did you notice the words ‘moderates’ and ‘allies’ in my comments? Don’t you think we need any, or don’t you think there are any?
I don’t care what terrorists think, any more than you do. But there are other people in the region, with whom we will have to deal, now and in the future. Or do you think we have another alternative?
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By: judith on May 5, 2011
at 8:44 PM
pb7, your fill of stupidity runneth over…
In your love for without doubt the worst President in history of the Republic, who without the tools in place including the enhance interrogation techniques and information provided by his hated predecessor which he campaigned against and hypocritically condoned in this instance, you might have noticed Bill Clinton also turned down the opportunity to spike the football with the megalomaniac clown-in-chief.
Anybody with any degree of sense realized the victory lap had everything to do with Obama and not much else – Obama’s first visit as President by the way. The man has a huge ego, but no sense of shame. His presence soiled the memory of those lost. 😉
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By: Wayne Perram on May 5, 2011
at 7:15 PM
Dear Helen,
Although I typically do not comment, I check your blog every day in hopes of reading another insightful post. I love reading your insightful words and the wisdom you impart.
Today, I am compelled to write to express my sadness at reading of Harold’s passing. I would like to extend my sympathy following the loss of your dear husband. I hope you find comfort and strength from your family and friends. My thoughts are with you and your family.
Best wishes and blessings to you and yours.
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By: Tante on May 5, 2011
at 6:26 PM
Helen, I am so sorry to hear of your loss. It breaks me heart to think of someone who brings so much joy to my internet experience having to go through such pain. May good memories bring you peace, even as you continue to bring us perspective.
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By: Kimberly on May 5, 2011
at 2:11 PM
judith, I wonder with these people cutting off the heads of U.S. citizens, suicide bombings, and the deaths of tens of thousands innocents why you feel the overpowering need to appease our enemy? They are not playing nice. They follow no rules of war. They do not recognize any human rights. They kill women and children indiscriminately. Why should we go so far out of our way and worry about their delicate sensibilities? Again I think it is the Liberals sad need to have the rest of the world look favorably upon them and some sick sense of political correctness.
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By: Noah on May 5, 2011
at 1:52 PM
Welcome back for sure!!!! I’ve been checking weekly for you and always disappointed when there is nothing new. Love your honesty and insights. Please keep them coming. We need a voice like yours out there……Blessed Be.
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By: Christina on May 5, 2011
at 1:31 PM
Helen & Margaret – –
I’ve never written to you before and don’t intend to continue this blog business because I have five busy kids and a ManChild and really don’t have the time. However, in the wee hours of the morning, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading your blogs and always, always agree with your opinions and of course, enjoy the giggles they provide.
I write briefly in response to Bin Laden’s death other than the fact that I celebrate it. He was a menace on this planet earth and needed to be eradicated from the world’s presence. I applaud my beloved Barack for FOLLOWING THROUGH and despise Dubya’ even more for being immature enough to not go to Ground Zero today at Barack’s invitation because Dubya’ feels “snubbed” according to an insider. What an idiot. Always as been. Always will be.
Most importantly, I share the common compassion among your other responders of the collective grief that you have been dealing with regarding your loving husband’s passing. It sounds so contrite but my thoughts really are with you, even though I don’t know you. I do hope you find peace in the coming days and continue to live fully without him. You are a blessing to this world and many of us are grateful for your humor, intellect and kind character. Please take care of yourself during this painful grieving process.
Yours in all things Democrat and nothing FOX,
P
.
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By: pb7 on May 5, 2011
at 1:16 PM
Helen so glad to see you bak.Your writings have given me so much pleasure and mental stimulus for the past three years.
My thoughts were that something dreadful must have occurred to make you disappear.
It is pleasing to see so many of the old posters have reappeared
to engage in interesting posts. Oh how I have missed them all and especially you.
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By: Grandma Katie on May 5, 2011
at 1:08 PM
Releasing the photos is big risk, no gain. Why do it?
I don’t think our president has a problem with big risk – he’s proven that to my satisfaction 🙂 But no amount of documentation will satisfy the people who just aren’t going to believe anything. If they won’t believe a birth certificate, why would they believe a death photo? Or a death certificate? Or DNA evidence? Or the body right in front of them, if it could be produced? Some poor souls even still believe he’s a Muslim and the Manchurian Candidate. All proof will be declared faked, evidence no object.
The risk is that we may radicalize even more moderates, who understand quite well why OBL had to go. All this cowboy hoo-rah, cheering and leaping around like football hooligans just confirms their worst stereotypes of us. It would be nice if we hung onto at least a few allies in the region. We haven’t kicked our oil jones yet, and until we do, we still have to deal with them occasionally.
So – why do it? There is enough documentation now to satisfy the reasonable, and trying to satisfy the unreasonable is about as futile as trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon. Classify the damn things and move on.
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By: judith on May 5, 2011
at 1:01 PM
Didddd ya know this was going on???????
“Last night House Republicans voted in favor of an appalling piece of anti-choice legislation that could force victims of rape and incest to relive their trauma during an IRS audit and deny millions of American women access to life-saving reproductive health care.
Their assault on women has nothing to do with saving money and everything to do with forcing extremist beliefs into the tax code of the United States of America.
And they didn’t stop there. They used the occasion to sneak in a provision restricting the definition of rape to deny victims access to reproductive health care — even after they claimed to have removed the language in the face of overwhelming public opposition.
We must take immediate, decisive action against this attack on women’s health and reproductive freedom.
Republicans’ H.R. 3 bill would drastically restrict women’s options for reproductive services by imposing burdensome new regulations on public and private insurance coverage. If made law, women would be denied using money from their personal health savings accounts to pay for abortion services.
I know how important it is for all women to have access to reproductive health care and it is unconscionable that one party would hold women’s health hostage and use the tax code as a moral club to force their religious beliefs on every American.”
Please contact your representives and let them know your feelings on womens reporductive health and if you can, please consdier contributing monetarily to the cause as well.
“With your help, we will stand up to this extremism and protect women’s reproductive freedom.”
Thank you.
Rep. Jackie Speier
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By: lori on May 5, 2011
at 12:33 PM
Krista, you just implied I should be murdered. Worse, a cesspool like you wouldn’t have the guts to try. Someone would have to do it for you. Big talk from a little mind.
Ash C., once again I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I believe Bush’s intelligence team was working just as diligently as Obama’s because they are essentially the same people.
I do believe Bush wanted to avenge his father, but he also had more valid reasons to invade. However, it was the wrong war at the wrong time. Afghanistan was not yet finished. For awhile, it became and after thought.
As you wrote, it is time to move on to our next adventure.
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By: James on May 5, 2011
at 12:11 PM
Dear Helen. I am so sorry for your loss of Harold. I’m sure he is still held dear in the hearts of all your family and friends but has left a huge hole in all of your lives. My thoughts are with you.
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By: Kathy on May 5, 2011
at 11:45 AM
Like many others, I am very sorry to hear about Harold’s death. I hope that you have many happy memories, and many friends and family to comfort you during this difficult time. Know that you have many, many friends whom you’ve never met who are thinking of you, and who will remember Harold as a man who was loved by a very special woman who is loved by so many of us.
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By: Lynn Manley on May 5, 2011
at 11:29 AM
In response to Noah’s jibberish, yes any balanced individual look at both sides then make an intelligent observation. So I can debate the Fox news bias just like I can debate the MSNBC bias. So if you chose only to listen to the right, that’s your right and your ignorance to own. As you have noticed a lot of people of the left watch Fox news. I do not always disagree with the right. I’m a libertarian; neither a left winger nor a right winger but when I see ridiculous, I like to poit it out.
Is Obama the best thing ever since bread and butter? Absolutely not but give the guy credit where credit is due. Instead the rght made this political and decided to trash him on every single detail some more ridiculous as the other to quote some that I have heard from Rush et al:
– It’s Bush’s interrogation techniques that got OBL – wrong, Bush on many occasion said he didn’t pay much attention to OBL. Bush wanted Saddam dead to avenge his daddy. That’s why Biush never put effort to go after OBL.
– How dare he not release the pictures? – So anything that Obama does need to be proven right? From the birth ceritificate to the dead pctures? I didn’t see the Right wigers demand the dead photos of Saddam after he was hanged.. The only leak was a cell phone video i.e. it was not an official white house photo release. I didn’t hear Rush and Fox news screaming for dead photos of Saddam. OBL is dead, what else did you want Obama to do? Send his body to a taxidermist so he can have OBL’s head as a Trophy?
– Obama is a muslim, he gave OBL a muslim burial- The guy is dead and according to his religion, he had a muslim ceremony. OBL was a monster buy any man deserves a burial according to their beliefs. We showed the world that we are not savages and we won’t stoop low like the terrorist that killed innocents. That in itself is pride and dignity.
– Give us the real way that he was shot Mr President, now we hear that he was unarmed- Who cares? Did you want OBL alive or dead? I’m glad that the last thing OBL saw was the face of a navy seal about to send him to hell.
Give the story a rest now. OBL death deosn’t mean anything. We still ahve to be on our guard. So all the right wing could do to save their faces is to say ‘ Job well done Mr Presidnet’ and move on. Behave like grown ups. You may have your differences with Obama but when he does something good be man enough to tell him.
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By: Ash C on May 5, 2011
at 11:22 AM
So sorry to hear about Harold’s death. I have a friend serving in Afghanistan – he emailed us that they were proud of the Seals but that there were no cheers, no partying – there is still much to be done and it was business as usual. I did see a funny editorial cartoon with OBL and a variety of animals with an angel saying “we didn’t stipulate what KIND of virgins!” I stopped watching Fox many years ago, when I realized I was killing brain cells!
Take care.
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By: SuzK on May 5, 2011
at 11:04 AM
I think the Navy Seals need to visit James.
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By: Krista on May 5, 2011
at 10:54 AM
Amen, Professor. Those folks wonder what Osama had on his computers. I hope they sweat.
Everyone will ignore this, but just in case…
PFessor,
You once mentioned Dale Earnhardt as one of the few NASCAR race drivers you had heard of. I mention this because it is relevant to what Helen and her family are suffering through now. Dale Earnhardt “The Day” Parts 1 through 5 is an almost Shakespearian drama of exuberance, dispair, and vindication.
It shows how ten years later the principals still get teary, as someone like Helen will do, but it also illustrates how much stronger those people are now.
The you tube video shows I have two things in common with Dale Sr. Sometimes, I can be a jerk when pushed. Because of a back and neck injury in an auto accident, my right hand often goes numb, and I steer with one hand when it happens.
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By: James on May 5, 2011
at 10:34 AM
Dear Helen,
We were so pleased to see you had written a blog entry and are sad to hear about your loss. Just know you have a real gift and are loved by many of your blog followers. Write when you feel like it, knowing we’re looking forward to your next blog. Have a good day!
Love,
Clyde and Linda
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By: Clyde and Linda on May 5, 2011
at 10:23 AM
So sorry to hear about Harold. Our prayers are with you.
So glad you two are back and telling it like it is. Keep up the good work.
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By: MerCyn on May 5, 2011
at 10:05 AM
Sending thoughts and prayers your way for comfort. Sorry to hear of Harold’s death.
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By: Dawn on May 5, 2011
at 9:27 AM
On to the next goal!
Ayman al-Zawahiri, sleep lightly. We are coming to get you next.
Sometimes you just f*** with the wrong people.
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By: PFesser on May 5, 2011
at 9:26 AM
I agree with a lot of what you wrote Ash C. Yes, history will remember Obama as the president who presided over the assasination of Osama bin Ladin.
And it should. He made the right decisions at the right time, and some of the best troops in the world did their job. This may turn out to be one of Obama’s finest moments.
I was trained as an historian and became a farmer. Misinformation from right or left is to me like fingernails on an old chalk board.
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By: James on May 5, 2011
at 8:40 AM
Helen, I send you my love and condolences. We lost my dad this year, too. My heart goes out to you. Welcome back to the loony Internetz, you have been greatly missed.
Harry
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By: harrietw on May 5, 2011
at 8:33 AM
Helen, please check out the effort to take back from corporations the ‘corporate personhood’ rights they illegitimately got (through Supreme Court complicity) which belong rightfully to us HUMAN persons. They’ve used them against We The People ever since, against the environment, our communities, and the planet! Check out http://www.MoveToAmend.org and see if you feel as we do, that corporations should be subservient to We The People, not the other way around. And that they should stay OUT of our elections and government. End corporate rule! Corporations are not persons, and money is not speech!
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By: Marybeth Gardam on May 5, 2011
at 8:06 AM
Dear Helen, I am sorry for your loss. Having read many or your posts, I have no doubt that you are a very strong woman and you will carry on. It is Margaret, however, that I feel will have the most difficulty when she no longer has her beloved Howard by her side. She does seem a bit dependent on the man, does she not?
I guess she will have you to help her through. How wonderful to have such a friendship with history. You both are blessed.
Carry on, Helen. You are much admired and, dare I say, loved.
Sincerely,
Mrs. Henry K. Claridge
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By: Mrs. Claridge on May 5, 2011
at 7:58 AM
This capture was a joint effort on both parties for the past 10 years. It would be unfair to credit Obama solely for this. But the problem here lies in the interpretation and followup from the Obama haters. Obama wanted a clean surgical strike with limited to no civilian casualties. Bush on the other hand was more of a bombiing guy.
Face it, the right will find any single thing to blame Obama for practically anything. Today it’s ‘Why doesn’t Obama release the picture, who does he think we are? A bunch of 6 year olds?’
So we go back to ‘Damn if youdo, and damn if you don’t’. The right wing needs to stop the blame game this time annd be happy that the world is Osama free. Does this mean we are safer? Absolutely not. But we delivered a serious blow to the moral of Osama followers. WE sent the message that you kill innocents, we will kill you back.
Listening to the right wing AM radio here in the BOston area this morning, the host was just being pompous with his remarks. But the same clown would be rejoicing if that was a right wing candidate that got OBL. In short the right is acting like a 3 year old who wants the attention of their parents..me…me….me. We got it conservatives, we know the credit is shared now let it go. They want to politicize this so much and yet talk about how Obama will use this as his running slogan. For starters, the right made it political.
Mr President the right want the damn pictures, just release it and but I guarantee that this will not stop their bitching; for they will find someting else; probably then bitch about why the president released such graphical pictures and he should have released a milder picture. So it’s a circle of chaos. The right will never like Obama so he may as well ignore them.
But the right need to stop acting like a psychotic girlfriend. They had their 8 years to do whatever they wanted. But one thing will never change my right wing friends, Obama will always be remembered as the President who got OBL and that is something history will remember.
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By: Ash C on May 5, 2011
at 7:46 AM
Thankyou, Brighid for your good thoughts for our niece and her husband.
Judith’s mistake with Obama/Osama was as honest as what some said happened at Fox. Jimmy Kimmel played several similar news mistakes. Some reporters had Obama ordering his own assasination. My e mail spell check changes Obama to Ossama.
Clinton finally realized Al Quiada presented a serious threat, and he did present Bush with a plan. He had at least two chances to capture Osama but failed to follow through. He also responded to terrorist attacks with missiles.
Bush thought our main threat came from China and he focused on a defense against their missiles before 9/11. So, yes, at first, he virtually ignored Richard Clark’s plan.
The Taliban was trying to preserve its power when it offered to bargain away Osama bin Ladin. They had created a national base for training and exporting of violence. Bush knew the Taliban and the Al Quaida organizations presented a greater threat than one man. Operatives in his administration largely destroyed the Al Quaida organization and Taliban. They did search for Ossama bin Ladin and might have captured him had they not relied on Afghanistan fighters, some of whom sympothised with the terrorists. As I wrote before, our niece and her husband played a small role in a search for bin Ladin.
Ossama used his horse analogy on Nightline, I think. He believed the United States was too weak and cowardly to respond in any way different than Clinton had. Our expected missile attack on the Mideast would anger people in the region and they would eventually drive us from its oil fields.
He also expected the recession to deepen because of the economic disruption and panic after the 9/11 attack. Bush’s declaration of war on Afghanistan and the invasion was a complete surprise to Al Qaida. As a reporter said a year or so later. If Ossama had known the outcome he might have rethought his perceptions of the United States resolve.
I am not a Bush lover, but fair is fair. Leon Panetta and others have acknowledged the intellegence work they built on. Bush is not trying to take credit for anything. Some of his former staff and others are. According to a link to the Drudge Report, a Democrat sent a memo advising Democrats to focus on Obama’s efforts and to dismiss Bush’s to improve their chances in the next election.
I don’t think Bush should have invaded Iraq when we had only begun to subdue the Taliban and Al Quiada. The center in Afghanistan did not hold because of it, and we had to renew our efforts to regain lost ground.
However, to say Bush’s administration played little no role in capturing Osama bin Ladin while Obama deserves all or most of the credit defies logic and fact. That takes nothing from what Obama did. He deserves credit for approving a ground invasion to remove the doubt a drone attack would have caused. Leon P. and others had a plan, and Obama was smart enough to approve it.
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By: James on May 5, 2011
at 7:04 AM
I am so sorry for your loss, I only hope that you find some comfort in keeping busy and thanks to the state of our world you will have plenty to keep you busy. Thank you for always telling it like it is.
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By: Jeanne on May 5, 2011
at 6:22 AM
Please accept my condolences on your loss. It is good to see you back, though. Keep telling it like it is. Fox opinion isn’t worth bothering with, and there is no news there anymore.
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By: Valley_Independent on May 5, 2011
at 1:35 AM
Bravo Helen! Welcome back, we all missed you the way we miss a best friend.
Sorry to hear about Harold.
With much aloha,
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 5, 2011
at 12:48 AM
Helen…You rock!
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By: laurie on May 5, 2011
at 12:28 AM
Thanks for all you do and my sincere condolences.
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By: Nancy on May 4, 2011
at 10:52 PM
Helen sorry to hear about Harold..Awful glad your back ..re- fox..can’t fix stupid…
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By: Star on May 4, 2011
at 10:34 PM
Dear, dear Helen,
My deepest condolences in the loss of your beloved Harold. I hope the many, many memories of your years together sustain you through this time of bereavement for you.
It is wonderful to ‘see’ all the ‘faces’ we haven’t heard from in a long time. You know who your friends and fans are and how much we love you and look forward to your posts.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste. Shalom.
Jean
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By: Jean on May 4, 2011
at 9:52 PM
So sorry for your loss, Margaret.
Like others here, I am glad to see you back and in your usual fine form.
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By: Donna C in AZ on May 4, 2011
at 9:48 PM
So sad to hear about your loss, Helen. We missed you. I hope you will continue to post with your friend, Margaret.
Has anyone told Auntie Jean in Hawaii??
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By: Linda on May 4, 2011
at 9:22 PM
OH GOD…Not Harold…..no…wait, who’s Harold again?
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By: Jr2-KL on May 4, 2011
at 9:20 PM
Very sorry to hear about Harold. Very glad to read your post – have missed you dearly!
Go see Taylor Holland’s “Ann, An Affectionate Portrait of Ann Richards” if you haven’t already. I think it may be coming to Austin this summer. I took my mother to see it in San Antonio for her Christmas present. I believe it was a present to me as well.
Just like reading your posts.
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By: Laura on May 4, 2011
at 8:59 PM
Sorry to hear of Harold’s passing. Peace to you and spot on with the commentary as usual!
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By: Robyn on May 4, 2011
at 8:57 PM
Oh Margaret, I’m so sorry for your loss.
My deepest sympathy to you and your family.
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By: Monica on May 4, 2011
at 8:53 PM
Thanks for another great post, I’m glad you’re back. And please accept my deepest sympathies, Helen. You and your family are in my prayers.
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By: Elaine on May 4, 2011
at 8:44 PM
Helen, I’m so sorry about Harold.
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By: Erin on May 4, 2011
at 8:33 PM
What I find to be the biggest surprise is that this Liberal bunch is a huge reason why Fox is number one in ratings. I never knew you guys spent so much time watching to get all this information on Fox.
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By: Noah on May 4, 2011
at 7:45 PM
[…] 72 Virgins Just Changed the Channel Margaret, I wish Harold could have lived to see this day. As a veteran, he was always hopeful that we would one day […] […]
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By: Top Posts — WordPress.com on May 4, 2011
at 6:11 PM
so sorry for your loss. hugs.
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By: barbara on May 4, 2011
at 6:09 PM
Whoops, spell check is right. Osama was meant, of course.
The rest of your comment – g’wan, kid, you bother me….
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By: judith on May 4, 2011
at 5:58 PM
LOL LOL Delurker… good catch!
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By: lori on May 4, 2011
at 5:32 PM
Rush heard what he wanted to hear (or heard nothing and made crap up) and his listeners faithfully bleated it across the web.
Per Limbaugh: “I, me, my” were “among the most-used words” in President Obama’s speech reporting on bin Laden. See this actual word count: “our”, 47x; “we”, 40x; “us”, 7x — meanwhile, “I”, 10x; “my”, 3x; “me”, 2x. (After opening link, click on image again to enlarge.)
i.imgur.com
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By: delurkergurl on May 4, 2011
at 5:14 PM
😳 you are…
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By: Wayne Perram on May 4, 2011
at 5:02 PM
Comedy gold coming from a M&H drone. What do you think this place is but a holding house and echo chamber for dregs acting as collective playground bully?
Doesn’t matter what you goons think about FOX. It is overwhelmingly the number one station on Cable News. PMSNBC, your channel, ranks lower than the Golf Channel. 😆
Like I said, your insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Now go back to pretending your sympathies.
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By: Wayne Perram on May 4, 2011
at 5:01 PM
My wife made me promise that, when our faithful but elderly Shepherds pass on, we will get a brace of Weimaraners…
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
and name them Osama and Obama.
Swear to god.
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By: PFesser on May 4, 2011
at 4:55 PM
‘“So you – like I – are just guessing.”
You may be guessing but I’m doing something called “reading” and watching legitimate news sources and listening to what President Obama has to say himself. ‘
**************
No, you are guessing. Do you really think you gain the slightest insight in your “reading” to the inner workings of the Administration? Think W and Bo spill their guts to the media? Seriously? Or maybe they just call you with the inside scoop.
Tell me truly – in your heart of hearts, do you really think GWB forgot about OBL, with the resources of the whole United States of America at his disposal, or was just doing the sour grapes routine? Do you think there weren’t just a *few* people continuing the investigation? Like maybe two or three thousand?
Guess again.
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By: PFesser on May 4, 2011
at 4:52 PM
Judith, I think lots of people here have sympathy for Obama but none for Osama. Do a spell check.
FAUX sucks Wayne. They are the bullies on the playground and I, for one, choose to stay in the classroom rather than hang out with them. Their idea of journalism is disgusting IMO.
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By: Shash on May 4, 2011
at 4:51 PM
Perhaps the finest comment of the mostly bankrupt comments I’ve ever read on this mind numbing board. Congratulations Judith – you nailed it lady! Long live FOX – still overwhelmingly number one on cable news. 😆 😆
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By: Wayne Perram on May 4, 2011
at 4:32 PM
Sorry for your loss Helen.
As for the Bush lovers trying to grab credit I have this.
From the memory hole: “Bush rejects Taliban offer to surrender bin Laden” – Oct. 2001
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bush-rejects-taliban-offer-to-surrender-bin-laden-631436.html
After a week of debilitating strikes at targets across Afghanistan, the Taliban repeated an offer to hand over Osama bin Laden, only to be rejected by President Bush.
In 2001, the Bush administration retained Clinton’s top counter-terrorism aide, Richard Clarke, then proceeded to ignore him. Clarke later recounted that while “Bill Clinton was obsessed with getting bin Laden,” the Bush team “thought I was a little crazy, a little obsessed with this little terrorist bin Laden. Why wasn’t I focused on Iraqi-sponsored terrorism?”
Nov 13, 2002 : “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care.
It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
~ George W. Bush
Bush: Truly not concerned about bin Laden.
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By: KVC on May 4, 2011
at 4:19 PM
“So you – like I – are just guessing.”
You may be guessing but I’m doing something called “reading” and watching legitimate news sources and listening to what President Obama has to say himself. He said during the campaign that this should be a criminal investigation and that he felt like bin Laden would be found in Pakistan and since the desired results were achieved I’m thinking that he followed through…once again.
Sorry, Helen, for you loss and for not mentioning it sooner. These idiots who are trying to act like George W. Bush deserves anything but our disgust and contempt have me riled.
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By: Donna P on May 4, 2011
at 3:28 PM
Yet another campaign promise met by President Obama! I’m looking forward to another successful term.
Sorry for your loss, Miss Helen.
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By: Kiki on May 4, 2011
at 3:22 PM
Craig –
Good to hear from you! Best to Val.
Yeah, I got that idea for the pigskin from an (probably legendary) account of Blackjack Pershing and an uprising in the Philippines. I have to laugh at the idea that we shouldn’t upset the Muslims’ delicate sensibilities. When they are jumping out of skyscrapers to keep from burning, watching their countrymen being beheaded on YouTube or their corpses hanging from bridges, call me. They didn’t seem to be all that worried about our delicate sensibilities.
It happens over and over: People somewhere else take a look at America and decide we are soft and won’t fight. Always a bad wager, but they never learn. One thing about the United States: when we are pissed, we WILL kill you, no matter the cost or how long it takes. I like that. Now if we could just combine that with Switzerland’s reticence about being involved in foreign wars (I think the last time they did that was 1511?) and we will do just fine. I’m not holding my breath.
Re: Osama. Good for Bo. Good call, Prez. I’m sure there a lot of people in Islamabad who have a bad hangover and a good case of terminal embarrassment. We didn’t even trust the Pakistanis enough to tell them we were coming. Looks like it was a pretty good call.
You will notice I got in the first comment on this thread. Better living through technology, that’s all I’ll say…and, Love My Mac.
And I’ll add my condolences re: Harold – I know that’s not his real name, but whoever he is…was.
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By: PFesser on May 4, 2011
at 2:36 PM
Helen-
I am so very, very sorry to hear of your loss. I was afraid this was why we hadn’t heard from you in so long. Sending you a big hug.
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By: Lynda Sorenson on May 4, 2011
at 2:32 PM
Dearest Helen and Family
We have all missed you very much and I was saddened to read of Harold’s passing. One of the great things about being from New Orleans is the tradition of celebrating the life and not the passing when a loved one moves on. You have many people around the world that are keeping you in their prayers and thoughts at this time, may your heart be comforted knowing that.
We all look forward to your next writings and many thank you’s for your wit and humor which always lighten my day.
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By: Lynnda on May 4, 2011
at 2:24 PM
I find it interesting that all of Obama’s points of success have been when he chose to ignore his campaign promises and instead followed Bush policy.
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By: Noah on May 4, 2011
at 2:16 PM
PFesser ,
Completely agree to your proposed burial of Mr. Usama.
He didn’t deserve that..Just throw his lifeless corpse into the swine trogh.
I say turn up the heat in GITMO and bring out the water buckets.
It was POTUS Bush and his team who began this trail of information until some liberal left wing daisy in their hair thought it was too brutal to go completely in for getting the info we need to stop these animals.
And as an aside..
Condolences to our host for your loss.
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By: Craig on May 4, 2011
at 1:59 PM
I wish words would make all the hurt go away but having lived long I know they don’t. We all have to suffer the loss of loved ones and it is the hardest part of living. As you know time helps ease the pain. I know just by reading all your blogs you must have made Harold’s life full of surprises and laughter. I am glad you had a good long time together and glad I could peek in and share it a little with you and yours. I look forward to more wit (or half wit) and wisdom. Thank you so much
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By: fets on May 4, 2011
at 12:12 PM
The Daily Show:
To Kill a Mockingturd
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on May 4, 2011
at 12:10 PM
I was pointed to this blog by a Facebook friend. Having to force myself to stop bloody reading it as I was going to get so embroiled! Fantastic stuff! You single handedly just restored my waining faith in humanity and folks from the US in particular 🙂 Thanks. And keep up the GREAT work.
Caroline (a Scot in Holland)
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By: caroline on May 4, 2011
at 11:55 AM
I was so stunned and sorry to read the first line of this fantastic post. I’m so sorry for your loss. My condolences to you and your families.
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By: Rider3 on May 4, 2011
at 11:38 AM
My condolences Helen. You’re in our prayers.
We missed you.
My 2 cents on OBL:
Bush takes credit…
&
Mission Accomplished!
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on May 4, 2011
at 11:32 AM
“I am sickened at all this Liberal sympathy for Osama and condemning the celebration of this Evil persons death. Where are your calls for sympathy for the hundreds of Fire Fighters and Policemen that died that day. What about all the children that lost a Father and or Mother that fateful day. Your call for political correctness and desire to honor a man responsible for so much death is despicable. This is what truly sickens me about the Liberals. You are all so hell bent to have the rest of the world look favorably upon you that you would ignore the deaths of our own.”
Sigh. OK, I’ll try to explain it to you.
No one here has sympathy for Osama. He was utterly despicable. But you do the right thing because it’s the right thing. Or, to put it another way, if you can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys except by their outfits, then there are no good guys.
I’m reminded of various studies that have polled students. A shocking amount of them believe it isn’t cheating if there’s no chance of getting caught. I’m reminded of all the pseudo-pious people who feel the Ten Commandments only need to be applied to people ‘like them’. I’m reminded of all the people I’ve heard admitting to doing horrible things to other people who pissed them off, because “they deserved it”.
It’s called internalized values. These people do not have them. Apparently, you don’t, either. I believe we should have done the right thing here, and we did it. I would do the right thing for you. However, you’ve let me know I’d better not turn my back on you. Because to get the same back again, you’ll have to like me, I’ll have to be ‘like you’ (shudder), I’ll have to deserve it.
No, thanks.
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By: judith on May 4, 2011
at 11:24 AM
By the way, been meaning to tell you that on your previous post someone posted a malicious script in the comment section which made my computer and other friends of mine’s computers crash.
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By: palinshutup on May 4, 2011
at 11:04 AM
So sorry to read about Harold, my condolences.
Bill Maher posted on FB “Bin Laden, Gaddafi kid – how many Muslims does a black man have to kill in one weekend before the crackers climb down off his ass?”
I thought you’d probably get a chuckle out of that.
Love ya!
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By: palinshutup on May 4, 2011
at 11:01 AM
Helen,
Welcome back. You were terribly missed. I’m so sorry about Harold and hope you are doing well all things considered. Good post, as usual. Thanks for the chuckles.
Don’t be a stranger. You have friends here.
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By: 2Legit on May 4, 2011
at 10:56 AM
Deepest sympathy to you Helen and I hope the fact you are so loved here helps a little bit to bring you some lightness of spirit.
I note that Rush and Fox are nit-picking about the actual wording of President Obama’s statement. When I heard it my interpretation was this was a man who knew the 4th estate would start picking apart his words and if criticism was to come his decision was criticism would be aimed at him – not the CIA, SEALS, etc. but like Truman (gee, a Democrat) the buck stops at his desk. He gave ample credit to the CIA, the Army, the SEALS, his national security team and even Bush for laying the foundation of the organization that eventually carried out his orders. It was like POTUS knew Rush and Fox, the Republicans on the Hill would not take long to start second guessing and he was setting the tone — you come at me not the team that risked their lives, the military that has fought these wars for so long.
Bush lacked the guts to give the orders – he was great on talk but his comfort zone was talking big and listening to Cheney about torture convincing himself that he was above the law even when it was proved nothing obtained under torture could be believed and was a pack of lies designed to stop the torture. There is some talk this information was obtained under torture but seems actually to be from interrogation where a guy close to bigger guy bragged he knew one of the couriers.
I do not take great joy in the death of any human but I am very glad obl is gone, that his burial at sea will not attract mourners or followers as if his grave was a shrine. If Republicans are such wusses to whine about trying Gitmo detainees in the US being too dangerous can you imagine the genuine fear level from these scared rabbits if obl was tried in our courts? Even throwing him into Gitmo would only serve as a rally point for the bad guys. OBL captured would have been a disaster. Had obl thrown up his hands and started to cry he would have been taken captive and I for one am glad he didn’t. He knew he was facing justice from the gun of an American SEAL and it would be instanteous. He should have suffered, he should have been in pain but he is dead.
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By: MSLemon on May 4, 2011
at 10:24 AM
Helen, dear, I’m so sad to hear about Harold. I’m baking a virtual pie to send you, as Southerners always send food after a death in the family; wish I could send a real one.
I’m not at all surprised that Republicans are trying to find a way to claim credit for this on W’s behalf, but I’m a little creeped out that what they’re insisting they should be praised for is torture.
Nevertheless, there’s credit to go around. I’m relieved this has happened; the world is better without bin Laden in it. As other writers have posted, though, the open celebrations and the calls to release photos are unseemly. Let’s be glad for the brave SEALs; let’s be grateful to James’s niece and her fellow soldiers, sailors and airmen; and then let’s get back to our lives. Preferably without Faux News.
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By: Brighid on May 4, 2011
at 10:16 AM
I am so sad to hear of Harold’s passing. Know that you lady’s are in our hearts. You have been missed.
As always you are so right about people who are suppose to bring us news.
Be Well
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By: VIE on May 4, 2011
at 10:06 AM
Ash C, we don’t watch Fox News, so I can’t say what they are doing. As you wrote, is wrong to politicize this by withholding credit from someone because we don’t like him/ her or our politics are different. Bill Clinton made many mistakes, but I think he deserves a little credit too.
In 2004, a Hendrick Motor Sports plane crash killed ten family members, employees and friends. Thanks to NOP’s convincing me we needed fast internet service when it became available last March, I found more about the crash and family reactions on you tube. The husband of one of our historical society members died suddenly after sixty five years of marriage.
I put together a little you tube based video of their story and how they survived. I gave it to the widow and told her it was unorthodox and she would probably hate it, but at least she knew I was trying. She said it was a big help to her and her family. Maybe something like that would help Helen and her family.
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By: James on May 4, 2011
at 9:56 AM
Our niece and her husband were with a force actively searching for Osama and other Al Quiada members in 2007-8. They were non-combat helicopter repair soldiers but the unit was so short-handed they rotated to helicopter gunner duty near the Pakistani border every two weeks or so. Our niece needed counseling when she returned. Maybe their commander was lying to them, but the stated mission was to search for Al Queada, and that is a fact. She and her husband returned from their second deployment to Iraq about a year ago.
I agree Cynthia. We need to respect the sensibilities of a family in mourning. This blog was created as an umoderated free for all. Maybe Helen and her family can derive some comfort from friendly give and take.
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By: James on May 4, 2011
at 9:37 AM
I wanted to point out how Fox News politicized this event. The right wing talk radio would not even praise Obama for his decision but they were talking only talking about the Seals (heroes in my book).
Come on FOX, how about we give the PResident some kudos? But that will be too much asking. FOX and the Right will always find negative in Obama. Damn if you do, damn if you don’t.
I bet if GW was still in office and Osama was captured, FOX would be making claims that GW needs to be on Mt Rushmore; not to mention that GW even said he forgot about OBL. When this comment was made, FOX tried their best not to show it at all.
So OBL got what he deserved and it was under Obama that he was killed not GW. So FOX news, I extend a royal FU to you; and I meant this in a good Christian way.
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By: Ash C on May 4, 2011
at 9:32 AM
Noah, we meet again, rivals are equals. Rush is a radio clown, Obama is President of the United States of America, no they certainly aren’t rivals by any stretch of the imagination.
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By: No one's puppet on May 4, 2011
at 9:13 AM
WOW!! some people just can’t wait to start slinging barn apples at one another.
The comments being made here are offering their condolences to Helen on her loss and welcoming Helen back. Yes some people are voicing their opinions on Helen’s blog which to my knowledge is still permissable in this country. However, this is not a classroom and no one should be graded on their answers at this time.
Would it be possible to allow this blog time to celebrate Helen’s return before we start correcting one another?
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 4, 2011
at 8:57 AM
Helen- I’m so sorry you have lost your husband.
Thank you, to you and Margaret, for having us all in.
And thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts about FOX’ endless attempts to frame all things as failure by this President or someone else’s success.
That particular device of style has worn pretty thin for me.
Good on you for pointing to it right out loud!
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By: alaskapi on May 4, 2011
at 7:58 AM
“All the credit for this goes to President Obama and his team who treated it like the crime that it was and put their best investigators on it and found him.”
Good to have inside information like that. And so precise, too!
The fact is, you have no idea whatsoever what was going on behind the scenes, under Bush OR Obama. Their public propaganda and their true inner workings may – or may not – bear any relationship to each other, and I doubt they share much real information with ordinary mortals.
So you – like I – are just guessing.
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By: PFesser on May 4, 2011
at 7:56 AM
Dear Margaret and Dear Helen, I was afraid you had deserted us for Facebook! You continue to give me hope that our world is not ONLY crazy. Did you hear that Glenn Beck’s show has been cancelled, to end in the fall? It seems there’s always something new to hope for. I know the death of one man will not change the world. I do have a sense of a glimmer of lightness, though.
Helen, I’m sorry you won’t have Harold next to you to talk to. I’m glad you have Margaret close.
Now, there’s so much going on in politics and society, I look forward to hearing what you think about the rest of this.
xoxo
Sofia, EQ
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By: HRH sofia EQ on May 4, 2011
at 7:49 AM
“The current administration just picked up the hunt for bin Laden where the last one left off. ”
That would be true except the last administration wasn’t looking for him. Six months after 9-11, in March 2002, George W. Bush said he “wasn’t concerned” about Bin Laden and in 2006 they officially shut down the Bin Laden task force. The Bush Administration was too busy invading countries that didn’t attack us to look for him. All the credit for this goes to President Obama and his team who treated it like the crime that it was and put their best investigators on it and found him.
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By: Donna P on May 4, 2011
at 7:30 AM
Helen,
I was sad to hear that you have lost Harold. I am sure it has been difficult. My condolences and sympathies. I was hoping with the demise of UBL that you might post once again so headed on over. Good to see you dear and take good care of yourself.
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By: Corie on May 4, 2011
at 7:19 AM
When Bush said Osama wasn’t a major concern, he was right. The United States and our allies had wrecked the organization’s hierarchial structure and damaged its ability to collect money. The war and Osama’s lieutenants who ran the day to day operations needed our immediate attention.
The search continued, and the nick- name of the courier who ultimately led our warriors to Osama was revealed during the Bush administration. Leon Peneta has acknowledged their building on information gleaned during the Bush years.
Since conspiracy theories are blossoming, here is another I heard on Coast to Coast. According to a couple of Asian writers Osama was a figurehead because he had charisma and money. He attracted supporters and money because of his charm.
The second in command made most of the strategic decisions, and he has been grooming a new generation of leaders to replace those lost during the past decade.
He plans to send them to the Middle East to gain control of the democracy movements.
According to the writer, in January, Pakistani special forces captured the man who planned the terrorist attack at Bora Bora, and they assumed the American action was merely a mopping up operation. They had no idea Osama was the quarry.
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By: James on May 4, 2011
at 7:02 AM
As a faithful reader of your blog, I send my condolences on the news of Harold’s death. May he rest in peace.
“I ask you, how long before we see an end to FOX? Change the channel America.” is an important question and a wise wish. My concern is that we must first change a large segment of the population itself who believe in the ‘channel’. The downside of this is that we will have to continue to deal with the likes of Fox’s “jackasses”. The upside is that hopefully it will keep you two blogging for a very long time.
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By: teacher on May 4, 2011
at 5:55 AM
Along with many others, I’m so glad to see you back, but so sorry to hear that Harold has passed on. Please accept my condolences for your loss.
I’m relieved to hear that Osama Bin Laden is dead but I won’t be dancing in the streets because the death of anyone (even one as monstrous as Bin Laden) diminishes us all.
As for the fact that George Bush can get much credit for any of this, that fact needs to be tempered by two things. One, by 2003, Bush was saying that he didn’t know where Bin Laden was and didn’t think Bin Laden was very important anyway. Two, by 2006 (IIRC), the CIA team who was tasked to hunt down Bin Laden was disbanded and those assets were reassigned to other assignments. President Obama had to have Leon Panetta get things going again after the President took office. Still, it was generous of him to add Bush to the list.
In any case, may I add my voice to the many who request that you drop us a line now and again. We enjoy reading your words and really miss them when you aren’t here.
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By: Illanoy Gal on May 4, 2011
at 3:09 AM
Oh Helen, you poor dear. With your quick wit and spunky attitude, I hope you are coping with the sad loss of Harold. My condolences.
From a selfish standpoint, I am thrilled you are back. And ignore the trolls, they are really rather pathetic and not worth anybody’s time or energy.
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By: AlisonS on May 4, 2011
at 12:21 AM
Oh, I’m so sorry about the loss of Harold, you two must have had a long happy marriage, I hope he and you didn’t suffer too long. We miss you two ladies when we don’t hear from you, we’re glad you found the way back to us.
President Obama is kicking butt, and I love it!
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By: kimwim on May 4, 2011
at 12:09 AM
I am very sorry to hear of your loss, Helen.
I know bin Laden’s death will bring some feeling of justice to many people who lost loved ones on September 11, but I can’t help but feel that it’s a Pyrrhic victory and one which doesn’t make the world in any way safer. The bogeyman is dead, but there is sure to be another one under the bed.
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By: Foodycat on May 4, 2011
at 12:05 AM
I was not surprised to turn to Fox during the coverage to see the ticker at the bottom relate the information, yet the presenters all gushing about W and his cronies and all they did to bring about this day.
You have been missed by all of us who revel in the witty rants of a woman who tells it like it is! My sincerest condolences in the loss of your dear Harold.
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By: Kelly on May 3, 2011
at 11:58 PM
My mother had terminal lung cancer when 9/11 happened. She knew how life would change for everyone with no turning back and grieved for me. She died right after the start of the Iraqi War II and was angry that Bush had elected to invade Iraq. She would have been relieved that Osama bin Laden was found and that his body was not desecrated–which would make us more enemies and put us more at risk. I don’t think the photos should be released.
I’ve been worried about you; I am so sorry to hear of your loss and understand how bittersweet this day is for you since Harold didn’t see it.
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By: CLH on May 3, 2011
at 11:46 PM
Jerry, the point was my ignorant friend was that he had the integrity to man up and give his political rival a compliment when it was due. Sorry I had to break it down and explain it to you.
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By: Noah on May 3, 2011
at 10:59 PM
So glad to see you back Helen, so sorry to hear of Harold’s passing. I’m sure you have had other things on your mind, thanks for sharing your thoughts, they are always right on the mark! Be healthy, young lady.
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By: Shawna Kelley on May 3, 2011
at 10:44 PM
Condolences, Helen. I’d bring you a casserole or a salad if I could.
We’ve missed you so much; now your absence is explained.
Thanks for your, as always, cogent and wise thoughts.
Take care of your own wonderful self.
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By: Ruth Zepeda on May 3, 2011
at 10:31 PM
Wow Noah. Ruch says it on the radio and then you type it here. Just how far does Rush have his hand up your puppet ass? Pathetic that you cannot think for yourself.
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By: Jerry on May 3, 2011
at 10:24 PM
Noah
Once again you have shown why so many people see you as a worthless POS. While most of the people on here are offering condolences to Helen on the loss of her husband you go off on one of your predictable and mindless rants. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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By: Alfie on May 3, 2011
at 10:22 PM
So sorry to hear of your loss. Glad you are back to provide us with your wit and wisdom.
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By: Brideof Chucky on May 3, 2011
at 10:02 PM
This post both by the hosts and the sheep that followed prove that Liberalism is a disease. Where to begin.
Liberals are more and more just one tiny step to the right of communism. Look at all the calls for our freedom of speech to be taken away and having Fox News silenced. All because the ignorant and hateful Liberals have no room for anything but their own myopic point of view.
Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh (a.k.a. Satan and Lucifer to the Liberals) gave high praise for how Obama handled taking out Osama. They had the class to set politics aside and call it like it is, something you Liberals will never be capable of doing being so blinded by hate as you are.
Despite the fact I agree with much of how Obama chose to deal with Osama, I think he was a bit of a glory hound. I lost count in his speech how many times he said :I, My, Me, never once giving credit to anyone else in his or previous administration for their contribution.
As for the fools who say Bush wasn’t 100% focused on getting Osama, he shouldn’t have been, nor should we now think we are safe now that he is dead. He is but one man kids. Yes his death is a blow but the snake is not dead. To think that Osama is the end of the problem is pure ignorance.
I am sickened at all this Liberal sympathy for Osama and condemning the celebration of this Evil persons death. Where are your calls for sympathy for the hundreds of Fire Fighters and Policemen that died that day. What about all the children that lost a Father and or Mother that fateful day. Your call for political correctness and desire to honor a man responsible for so much death is despicable. This is what truly sickens me about the Liberals. You are all so hell bent to have the rest of the world look favorably upon you that you would ignore the deaths of our own.
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By: Noah on May 3, 2011
at 9:48 PM
Helen, so good to hear from you. So sad to hear Harold isn’t with us any longer. I guess that Fox news was not good in such excessive doses. My condolences. We love you! Stay strong and keep us informed. May God bless your socks off. And Margaret’s too. Really. 😉
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By: poolman on May 3, 2011
at 9:38 PM
The folks over at Fox News are punch-drunk, from the ass kicking they’ve received from President Obama. ☺
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By: Mamawink on May 3, 2011
at 9:30 PM
So sorry to hear of the loss of your Harold. You wit and wisdom have been sorely missed and I have joined all your other followers in wondering where you were. It is so good to see that email in my inbox.
As usual, you hit the nail on the head about Fox (supposed to be) News. They hated to give President Obama any kind of credit for this and they are claiming that the torture methods used under the Bush administration helped them to find Bin Laden. I was under the impression they found him due to tracking phone calls his most trusted messenger made. Doesn’t sound like torture to me. Just picking up on his careless aides’ mistakes. That the president has known that they may have found him and has patiently waited for the intel and the planning to be completed and that he had the confidence that the Seals and the rest of the military support would get in there and get the job done without the loss of American life and with the “prize” in hand shows we have a wise leader who did the right thing. They gave Bin Laden a choice and I guess he chose to go out dead. The fact that they didn’t defile him in death and followed Muslim custom in the burying at sea speaks to the integrity of our government and military. It would have served no purpose to do anything that wasn’t in accordance and it could have served as a rallying point for the extremists had we not handled his body correctly. They won’t like that we got him but they won’t be able to say we disrespected Muslims or Islam in the process. I am sure your Harold would be proud of our soldiers and the outstanding job they did in this victory. We know the war isn’t over, but knowing they took down the man behind the plan that killed so many people 9 1/2 years ago does some good for all of us that watched in horror on that day in 2001. I will never forget as I watched it as it took place and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. The hunt for Bin Laden was something most Americans supported and while it may be unseemly to celebrate his death it is hard to not do so. He caused so much death and destruction on that day and he attacked this country and many other countries that had people die on that day. People from around the world were in those three targeted sites- four if you count the twin towers as two targets. This was justice finally served.
So glad you are back Helen and we do hope we will hear from you more often now. Thank you again for the bright spot you add to our days. until next time!
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By: MTinMO on May 3, 2011
at 9:28 PM
Sympathy and condolences on your loss.
Thank you for posting.
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By: Elisabeth on May 3, 2011
at 9:16 PM
Helen,
Sorry for your loss of Harold.
Thank You for getting back to some blogging. You and Margaret are appreciated by many, including me.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 3, 2011
at 9:03 PM
Helen, my condolences to you on Harold’s passing. You are in our prayers.
We did miss your acerbic wit while you were gone but we were also just plain worried about you and yours. I am sorry for the grief you have had to bear. Know we (most of us anyway) love you.
And, please, post more frequently just to let us know how you are doing if there’s nothing political to post about. Of course, there is always something political to post about.
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By: Shash on May 3, 2011
at 8:37 PM
Helen, so sorry to hear of your loss. I was worried about you and now I see why you were so quiet for so long. Hang in there, it really does get better. *hugs*
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By: Steve H on May 3, 2011
at 8:33 PM
Helen, So sorry for the loss of your dear husband Harold. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. Please take care of yourself, know that Harold will be watching over you and yours.
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By: gail on May 3, 2011
at 8:21 PM
PS I too agree with Maureen. All this crowing over the death of a human being seems cheap and vulgar, however horrendous he was (and he WAS). I wish they had captured, tried and convicted him — it would have meant so much more! Was very disappointed in the overblown and tacky celebration of the event by Jon Stewart, from whom I had expected a great deal more thoughtfullness and character.
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By: Carolyn on May 3, 2011
at 8:13 PM
your loss moved me, Helen — am a recent widow myself so I feel for you. Good for you for staying with it and posting! You’re amazing.
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By: Carolyn on May 3, 2011
at 8:05 PM
Thank you for this.
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By: Obwan on May 3, 2011
at 7:53 PM
I’m sorry to hear about the loss of Harold as well. May his memory be eternal. And Helen, welcome back! I was beginning to worry about you a lot. Take care of yourself, there are a lot of people who have grown to love you!
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By: Don in KS on May 3, 2011
at 7:53 PM
My condolences for your loss. Now I understand why you were away so long. I’ll keep you in my prayers and will check back for you wit. Thanks for keeping with the blog.
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By: Adiena on May 3, 2011
at 7:28 PM
Wonderful to have you back!! This is my first post — I had to send my condolences.
Thank you for the thought provoking laughs!
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By: jgg on May 3, 2011
at 7:23 PM
I don’t think saying “Obama” instead of “Osama” is any kind of accident. I believe they were following orders.
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By: murr brewster on May 3, 2011
at 7:19 PM
Helen, I am so sorry about your loss. I felt I knew him, thanks to your postings. Reaaly sorry.
Cream always rises to the top and mud sinks. Eventually, people will catch on about all the fakes you referenced in you post. It is just a matter of time.
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By: Easier on May 3, 2011
at 7:17 PM
I am so sorry to hear of Harold’s passing. And thank you for telling it like it is. My own military man will be “over there” in a couple months, and these idiot not only don’t know kaka, but they make it more dangerous for my husband to do his work.
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By: Amy on May 3, 2011
at 7:07 PM
I am so very sorry to hear about your husband.
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By: SarahT on May 3, 2011
at 7:01 PM
I’m so sorry for your loss.
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By: Liza Lundell on May 3, 2011
at 6:55 PM
Helen, I join the stream of heartfelt condolences for your loss of Harold.
This community thinks so highly of you and we’re so happy to hear your ‘voice’ again!
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By: roz on May 3, 2011
at 6:52 PM
I agree with Maureen too. though I take grim satisfaction in the man’s death, I don’t feel like dancing in the streets either.
lois stearns, you have a nice blog. I like it.
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By: James on May 3, 2011
at 6:50 PM
Very sorry for your loss Helen.
Thank you again for your insight and humor
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By: drea on May 3, 2011
at 6:43 PM
Helen, so sorry about the loss of your dear husband, Harold. No words are adequate in these situations. But, you can see how many of us care so much about you and Margaret and your families. Prayers and love to you. So happy to have you back.
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By: sunshine on May 3, 2011
at 6:05 PM
Thanks for your comment, Mageen. I agree completely.
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By: delurkergurl on May 3, 2011
at 5:54 PM
Helen,
So sorry for your loss.
Insightful as always. Brava.
A side note regarding the virgins. Yes, they are virgins, but they are those 30 year olds that live in their parents’ basements playing WOW and arguing with each other over the chat rooms which Linux distro is better.
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By: Jen on May 3, 2011
at 5:54 PM
I liked that Giuliani disagreed with him. Almost made me respect the guy again…
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By: suburbancorrespondent on May 3, 2011
at 5:46 PM
Helen, allow me to join my voice to the chorus of condolences on Harold’s passing. This was something I feared when we hadn’t heard from you for so long. I’m glad to see you hear, though, with your sharp wit well in hand. Sending you lots of love!
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By: Genavieve on May 3, 2011
at 5:36 PM
Dear Helen, any other day I would be sitting here in my bedroom, trying to deal with such excruciating pain while trying to find something on the ‘net’ interesting enough to occupy my wandering brain. But today, I’ve been gone most all day with hardly a moment to spare, trying to take care of a million things before my hubby [30 years] gets home, lo and behold, the moment I sat back down, what do I find in my email, your fabulous blog after such a long time finally arrived!! I’m so terribly sorry and saddened over Harold’s passing, so it is with such heartfelt sympathy that I too, along with all the others here, offer my condolences to you. I know it’s so difficult to lose a loved one, so I hope you have found some peace, even if just a tiny amount. Just know you have so many, many friends here even though we haven’t been formally introduced. We look upon you as an integral part of our lives and hope that soon you will feel well enough to blog nonstop. We love you honey, so never forget that! Meanwhile, take good care of you as we all need you and your wisdom around for a long time to come especially since you pointed out how stoooopid Faux Noise truly is.
As for bin Laden, it appears that many even in the Arab world, were no longer enamored of him, so I hope the wold at large will find some type of collective sigh and thank goodness such evil has left us permanently. Using religion as a justification to kill innocents is about the worst thing anyone could do. As for Fox Snooze, there is nothing good that can be said of any of their personalities. They continue to have the blond equivalent of Palin on throughout their infotainment shows and even on my most boring days, I just can’t waste what little of my brain is left listening to them spew hate, lies, garbage, propaganda, illusion, spin, personal opinion and all other adjectives that define CRAP, because a brain [limited though it may be] is a terrible thing to waste. So Helen, I doubt any one of them will ever say one positive word about President Obama, I applaud you and am so thankful that you, because of your generous heart, will continue to fill us in on their ignorance and buffoonery as they continue to make total asses of themselves – no matter what personality is doing the ‘hosting’ or the ‘spewing’. I only wish those sheeple who continue to believe they are ‘fair and balanced’ wake up and realize there is nothing of consequence to be gained by tuning in to Faux News to view any of them.
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By: Disparaged on May 3, 2011
at 4:59 PM
Helen……I love ev ery word you write….you are brilliant!
I am also grateful to you for introducing me to the blogging community…….I am 84 and when I read your blog a year or so ago I decided that if you can do it so can I.
I love blogging now and have some great followers;m y life is so enriched, all thanks to you.
Come visit, please.
“it’s Always Something”
loisstearns.blogspot.com
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By: lois stearns on May 3, 2011
at 4:57 PM
Helen,
So very sorry about the loss of Harold. Have missed you and your sage wisdom greatly.
Regarding the debate that started less then 48 hours after the President’s anouncement, I say turn off Fox news & MSNBC. I for one do not want to see the picture and have the image burned into my brain. I say pull the top 20-50 most trust worthy journalists & bloggers from around the world, take them to a secure room, no cameras or phones, let them view the pictures and video and tell the world in their words what they saw.
There will still be people that can’t accept whatever they read or hear just because the concept of another side is beyond what they’ve been programed too believe by their news sources
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By: deb on May 3, 2011
at 4:52 PM
I am so sorry to hear about your loss. My condolences on Harold’s passing.
I remember seeing people in the Middle East “celebrating” the fall of the World Trade Center. I didn’t like seeing that. If we Americans like to think of ourselves as being the “bigger, better people” then maybe we shouldn’t be jumping up and down too much. I am grateful that Mr. bin Laden is no longer among us, and is nothing to be afraid of anymore. I am grateful that the Seals made it back without any losses. I just don’t like the idea of “celebrating” anyone’s death. Even a rotten SOB’s death. It’s nothing to celebrate. And I’m glad we tried to send him on his way to meet Allah with as much of Islamic tradition as possible. Being a bigger A-Hole doesn’t make you better.
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By: Maureen on May 3, 2011
at 4:40 PM
Good thoughts going out your way, Helen. We know you’re strong, but please let family and friends help you through the tough moments when you feel weak or lonely.
72 virigins? Nah. I’d like to think it’s one 72 yr old virgin waiting for him, and that virgin is rather pissed about the whole situation.
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By: bbgunn on May 3, 2011
at 4:39 PM
Condolences on the loss of Harold. Have wondered what was keeping you occupied, but you’re back and better than ever!
“Crazy like a FOX” used to mean that there was method to the madness. Now it just means “rabidly, foaming at the mouth, wouldn’t know reality if it punched ’em in the guts crazy.
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By: noodleepoodlee on May 3, 2011
at 4:14 PM
Man Helen, so sorry to learn of Harold’s passing. May the White Light surround and comfort you during this difficult challenge.
Thank you for sharing your enormous talent. We greatly appreciate your hospitality in this tiny little corner of the blogosphere.
namaste
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By: lori on May 3, 2011
at 4:04 PM
I am so sorry to hear of Harold’s passing. I’m happy to see that you’ve kept your sense of humor and as usual you are right on. Take care.
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By: Lynne on May 3, 2011
at 3:55 PM
My sympathies Helen. You have a community here that loves you. I sure enjoy your slant on things and am happy to see a post pop up with your name on it. (((hugs)))
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By: DiAnne on May 3, 2011
at 3:27 PM
I am so very sorry, Helen, for the loss of Harold. As soon as I heard about Osama I was looking forward to your reaction. Of course, you did not disappoint in that regard but I got a big pit in my stomach when I read the first line about Harold. My thoughts are with you and I hope the collective support you are receiving from this blog is helping . . . even if just a wee bit.
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By: April on May 3, 2011
at 3:22 PM
Oh honey. You just keep on keeping on. And Mr. Van Susteren gets more sad each year. What a loser since she moved to Fox several years ago and changed her face in the process.
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By: GZ on May 3, 2011
at 3:06 PM
I’m so sorry to hear that Harold has passed. Our hearts are heavy for you. I’m sending many blessings to surround you during this time.
I’m so grateful to hear you blogging again. I agree with Kewalo, Mr. Bush can have some of the credit for the capture of Bin Laden when he takes some of the credit for tanking the economy (just like every other business venture he was involved in).
Welcome back Helen, we missed you!
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By: elenalb on May 3, 2011
at 2:59 PM
I’m so sorry to hear about Harold. God bless you dear.
But it is nice to see you posting again. I’ve missed you…a lot.
Frankly I think we should give Bush as much credit for bin Ladens death as he is taking for the economic problems we’re facing.
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By: Kewalo on May 3, 2011
at 2:44 PM
Judith,
government policy and most other things do not exist in isolation. They rest on what went before. Bill Clinton was the first to attempt to capture Bin Ladin, and he encouraged rendition and other methods of harsh interrogation.
George Bush built on and expanded what Bill started. His policies wrecked the Al Quaeda political and business structure and made bin Ladin essentially a symbol instead of a day to day commander. In that sense, Osama had become less important than the terrorist organizations we were fighting, but the search was still intense. I know because our niece and her husband were part of it.
Red State, a conservative blog says “certainly the facts as we know them right now support the conclusion that you can’t separate the capture of bin Ladin from the multifacited Bush approach to counter terrorism that produced the witnesses and leads that let the intelligence defense apparatus do its job in running the investigation– and Osama bin Laden to ground.”
Attorney General Holder says he is an agnostic as to whether “enhanced” interrogation contributed anything go the killing. A Rasmusen poll, I think shows individuals polled believe Bush deserves some credit.
This was an extended group effort, and giving credit to others takes nothing away from what Obama did.
An auto race is instructive. A winning driver thanks his/her crew, and even the engine designer, because he/she knows they are all part of a team, and they need each other to win.
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By: James on May 3, 2011
at 2:03 PM
As so many voiced already…sorry to hear of Harold’s passing. May you find peace quickly and be able to come to a point where memories of him are met with only laughter and love on your part.
Thanks for the ‘spot on’ post!! You provided a number of good chuckles this morning over a good cup of tea.
Take care and know so many uf us have you, Harold and your family in our thoughts and prayers.
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By: ugavic on May 3, 2011
at 1:50 PM
To be perfectly honest, as an inhabitant of the sea and a solid citizen of the realm, you have no idea how much I resent those humans dumping trash in my backyard. Osama FIN Laden, indeed. Why not embalm and stuff him in a Tanqueray bottle; then call him Osama GIN Laden. As for that Tonsil Dump character, why not call him Osama TWIN Laden.
And anyone who criticizes the Pres. for bagging the bum should be renamed Osama SPIN Laden.
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By: Octopus on May 3, 2011
at 1:48 PM
Helen, my sincere condolences to you on the loss of your Harold. And thank you for coming forward at such a poignant time with your humorous and compelling assessment of current events. You have been sorely missed for the past three months.
Welcome back and peace be with you.
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By: jsri on May 3, 2011
at 1:31 PM
So sorry to hear you lost your Harold. I have faith he is enjoying heaven without having to share it with Bin Laden. Glad to see you blogging again, I’ve missed you!
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By: TexasEllen on May 3, 2011
at 1:24 PM
Freudian slip, or, just wishing it were so?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/fox-anchor-obama-dead_n_856299.html — Fox anchor announces that President Obama is dead.
Maybe the guy just has too much practice on the fox poop channel of purposely confusing listeners with substitutions of Obama for Osama?
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By: elsie09 on May 3, 2011
at 1:08 PM
Even though we will never meet I consider you to be my friend.
May you find peace in knowing others care.
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By: dailyreader on May 3, 2011
at 1:05 PM
Helen, know that we have you in our prayers over Harold’s loss. We know the pain of losing a close member of the family, we lost our 44 year old son just two years ago. We hold you and Margaret in such high esteem, that while you were gone, you were sorely missed. We love you and your sparkling wit. Frankly, no one can hold a candle to our Helen Philpot when it comes to commentary that is spot on target. Never fear Helen for your Harold, though you miss him terribly, know that he is free of pain, suffering and sadness now. Harold is also in our prayers but he is also with the Good Lord and is laughing his fanny off at the location of Bin Laden upon his arrival. Especially when old Osama discovered that the Koran was wrong about the Paradise and the 72 Virgins.
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By: Harv on May 3, 2011
at 12:57 PM
“Never send a Republican to do a Democrat’s job.”
He’s right, Mike. Republicans don’t have a big enough wagon to carry so much of other_people’s_money to give away.
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By: PFesser on May 3, 2011
at 12:47 PM
So, Mike, all you can do is sit there and childishly attempt to insult us? Sorry, little boy, that really doesn’t work.
Why don’t you and your fellow ignorant children at Fox go away now. Because the lesson of the last three days has simply been this:
Never send a Republican to do a Democrat’s job.
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By: Nick K on May 3, 2011
at 12:42 PM
I’m so glad you’re back. I grieve for your loss.
I think Obama handled this just about right. The burial at sea with as much Muslim tradition as possible made me feel good – I know some people were screaming for public desecration of the body, but I really don’t want to live in that country. It won’t be enough for those that hate us, but it was still the right thing to do.
I don’t understand giving the Bush administration any credit at all. It didn’t get done by Bush because he just didn’t have the ‘want to’. When he said he didn’t know and didn’t care where OBL was, it was the truth. OBL was too valuable as a live boogeyman. Lose the enemy, lose the war powers.
And I can’t forget how tightly the Bush finances are wound up in the Bin Laden clan in Saudi Arabia – this is why the relatives were spirited out of the country promptly after 9-11, remember? OBL’s relatives may not have approved of Osama’s adventures, but they did give him at least some financial support and they would not have appreciated his assassination by Bush. Shrub wasn’t about to do anything that would be ‘bad for bidness’, country be damned. Never has, never will.
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By: judith on May 3, 2011
at 12:28 PM
I’m so sorry to hear of Harold’s passing. I’ve missed you – welcome back!
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By: Jenne on May 3, 2011
at 12:11 PM
I sincerely love you.
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By: Penny on May 3, 2011
at 12:04 PM
It’s a mistake. He won’t meet 72 virgins – it’s Virginians.
I can’t wait until my Boy Tom gets his hands around that scrawny neck…heh, heh…
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By: PFesser on May 3, 2011
at 11:52 AM
According to Swampland Time, Leon Panetta and his advisers couldn’t reach a consensus about the chances of success. They were only 60 to 80% confident Osama was there and could be captured. Panetta decided it was the best evidence since Tora Bora in 2001 and advocated going in.
He tried to convince Obama and after the president agreed to approve the mission, Panetta gave the order.
Of course, the real heroes are the SEALS intellegence agents and others, but with all of our political leaders, Leon Panetta also deserves to be mentioned.
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By: James on May 3, 2011
at 11:51 AM
All the love for this post Helen, all the love. If I could just get my mom to stop watching Fox, my world would be almost perfect. Sigh.
I am so sorry for your loss and that Harold was not here to share with you. Although, maybe not the Fox part. 😉
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By: Marzie on May 3, 2011
at 11:51 AM
Helen: condolences on Harold. How lucky he was to have you!
And I hope you’re right about bin Laden’s demise, and Obama’s competence — on many matters — being bad business for Fox News. One can only hope.
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By: dog's eye view on May 3, 2011
at 11:48 AM
just a word to say i regret the loss of your loved one Helen. please take care of yourself and Margaret you are precious to many that you will never meet but we are here and we love you.
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By: bubbles on May 3, 2011
at 11:48 AM
Helen, I am so sorry to hear about your loss. My husband and I will be thinking about your family. *hugs*
And as usual I completely agree with what you said. Thank you for being a voice of reason in these crazy times. Please take care of yourself.
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By: A. Grigsby on May 3, 2011
at 11:41 AM
Thanks for the belly laugh. Do you think OBL will find those 72 virgins in hell?
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By: Bob Sanchez on May 3, 2011
at 11:41 AM
I’m so sorry to hear about Harold’s death. You’re in my prayers.
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By: Christopher on May 3, 2011
at 11:37 AM
I’m also sorry Harald died. Words cannot express the pain you must feel over separation from your life’s partner. I don’t know any words which will make it better.
We don’t have cable, so we don’t watch Fox News. Glenn Beck, and the others are not news readers. They are editorialists. What was the actual reporting like?
Many people can share the credit for this operation. Obama was building on the foundation Bill Clinton and George Bush constructed. He criticized some of the methods his predecessors used, but he continued much of their anti- terror policy.
Dumping Osama’s body in the water was apparently intended as an honorable funeral, but some Muslim clerics say it is a form of disrespect. One doesn’t bury someone at sea unless he dies there. I don’t really care, because the wicked man is dead.
This sends a message to our enemies. We are relentless.
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By: James on May 3, 2011
at 11:34 AM
So good to hear from you but very sorry to hear about your loss. Peace.
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By: daisydem on May 3, 2011
at 11:21 AM
*hugs*
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By: Ron S on May 3, 2011
at 11:12 AM
Helen, I’m so sorry for your loss. I know Harold would be proud of you. I hope we hear from you more often. Your brand of truth leavened with sly humor is just what we need these days.
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By: Sunny on May 3, 2011
at 11:07 AM
So sorry to hear of your loss. Thanks for returning to comment on this latest development.
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By: Maggie on May 3, 2011
at 11:05 AM
A friend of a friend took a picture of her TV screen as she watched Faux news. At the bottom of the screen it read, “BREAKING NEWS REPORTS: OBAMA BIN LADEN DEAD”
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By: Erica on May 3, 2011
at 11:03 AM
May Harold’s memory endure as a blessing–I’ll never forget him!–and may you be comforted among all who mourn.
And please keep blogging!
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By: Mrs. Tarquin Biscuitbarrel on May 3, 2011
at 10:57 AM
I am sorry for your loss, Helen.
And I agree pull the plug on Fox!
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By: Daryl on May 3, 2011
at 10:27 AM
Margaret, my sincere condolences in your loss. I worried that your absence was due to something wrong at home. I hope you will come back more frequently now and know how much we love you and enjoy your words.
As for bin Laden, may he be confronted in hell by 72 menopausal females with raging PMS!
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By: Gramiam44 on May 3, 2011
at 10:27 AM
Helen, my condolences to you and your family in the loss of your husband. I hope you feel some peace in all that sadness.
We missed you terribly while you were gone and look for your return here again soon.
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By: elsie09 on May 3, 2011
at 10:25 AM
Helen,
I am sorry to hear of the loss of your Harold. It is hard to let go of someone you have held close for so long. We don’t remember days, we remember moments.
So happy you have returned to us! I don’t have tv reception; I can avoid this Fox bs. It is bad enough to read about them.
It is great to have a grown up in the White House in President Obama. He handled this situation beautifully. Can you imagine the absolute circus if McCain, Palin, Trump!, Huckabee etc. were in charge, OMG!!! Hopefully the media will avoid the circus too.
Osama Bin Laden was a misguided, fanatical, hate filled, angry, crazy? man; just a man, a human, nothing more. Not some bigger than life, super powered monster that 300 million people had to change their lives out of fear of him. He needed be held responsible and brought to justice. How many lives were lost or destroyed in our quest to find …..this one man?
Peace.
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By: Cynthia on May 3, 2011
at 10:13 AM
I’m rather hoping that instead of 72 virgins, he gets 72 heavily-armed Valkyries out for blood. But seriously, death is such a solemn thing that I can’t join in the cheering no matter whose death it is. I am thankful, though, that the world has one less charismatic, hate-filled leader in it today. We must not forget that W took his eye off of bin Laden, even giving us that, “I don’t even think about him any more,” speech. It was Obama who put the focus back on Afghanistan and Pakistan to hunt down the instigator of 9/11.
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By: HissyStitch on May 3, 2011
at 9:50 AM
Hey Grandma Helen,
We have missed you soooo much! I’m so sorry to hear about Harold’s passing. How are you doing dear? You are definitely in our prayers.
As usual, your post is spot on; I’m loving it…As for FOX, what do you expect from the Village Idiots? They really put the D.A. in Dumb Asses…It’s amazing to me that these folks actually get paid to make asses of themselves on public tv.
Please take care and know that all of us (well, except for a few dumb asses) wish you well and would love to hear from you more often. Peace & Blessings
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By: Jazzydee on May 3, 2011
at 9:13 AM
I’m so sorry for your Loss, Helen, and so glad for your return to cyberspace.
A couple of things that sicken me:
1. the number of people who are questioning that bin Laden is really dead and are demanding “PROOF”,
2. those giving the credit to Bush, forgetting that he stated quite clearly that bin Laden was not a priority for him, then he moved his focus to Iraq (guess they also forgot about Tora Bora),
3. FAUX “News” for just about everything they say/do. (Shep needs to abandon that joke and go to a REAL news organization!)
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By: JudyC in NoCA on May 3, 2011
at 9:13 AM
Helen, I’m so sorry for your loss. Peace to you and your family.
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By: Christine on May 3, 2011
at 9:01 AM
Helen,
I am so very sorry for your loss and so very thrilled you are back. It has been a long wait for your wisdom and I understand why now. Losing someone you love dearly is heartbreaking.
May you have many more birthdays!
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By: Crafty lady in Illinois on May 3, 2011
at 8:59 AM
Very sorry to learn of Harold’s passing; may his memory be a source of comfort to you.
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By: BB on May 3, 2011
at 8:51 AM
First, I would like to offer my sympathy on the loss of your dear Harold. Second, I am so glad to see you back and still typing up a storm. I loved the plastic surgery comment!! Of course, FOX will never change and will probably never go away. That would be wishing for too much. I am just glad that at least half the people in the U.S. still seem to have a semblance of sanity left. The other half . . . well, I’m not going to go there.
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By: Joni on May 3, 2011
at 8:47 AM
I am so very sorry for your loss. Harold sounded like a real hoot – I’m sure I would have liked him.
And thank you very much for this morning’s laugh!
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By: Judy Schultheis on May 3, 2011
at 8:45 AM
Condolences on the loss of Harold.
No need to dance in the blood of a man like Osama, but I won’t miss him.
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By: The One and Only on May 3, 2011
at 8:33 AM
Thanks for your post… spot on, as always! And sending a little extra love your way…
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By: Tena on May 3, 2011
at 8:28 AM
Helen, First of all, I’m so sorry for your loss. My heart aches for you.
“…a race to the bottom on that network is over before it begins.” This is one of a million examples of why I love you.
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By: Debra Schubert on May 3, 2011
at 8:28 AM
Missed your humor Helen and while I realize you prefer to keep your private life to yourself, I want to extend my condolences.
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By: No one's puppet on May 3, 2011
at 8:23 AM
Helen, we’ve been worried about you, and I’m sorry to hear about the loss of Harold and hope he didn’t suffer. I’ve missed you and was delighted to receive the e-mail concerning your new post. As usual, you are right on the mark. Now that Osama is swimming with the fishes, one would have to search far and wide to find more disgusting people than those who appear on Faux Noise (other than Shep, of course).
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By: laingirl on May 3, 2011
at 8:18 AM
So relieved to hear from you, though sad to hear about Harold. Glad to see some of the old gang appearing in your comments so quick – you had to know they were just waiting to hear from YOU!!! Thank you for your blog.
I dislike so many of the commentators at Fox, but I dislike Hannity the most.
There are so many people who contributed to the completion of this operation. Among them are the voters who put the right President into office so that when the call came he was there to make the right decisions. I have to smile when I hear people call him badass! Impressive how he can play basketball and serious chess at the same time. 😉
I hope this victory over bin Laden is meaningful to families of the 3000 people murdered on 9/11, and to the families of twice that many lost military personnel.
Now, can we do something with that big hole in the ground in Manhattan? It’s been 10 years and still looks more like a bin Laden victory zone than a symbol that Americans overcome and thrive! And let’s start reclaiming our freedoms!
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By: delurkergurl on May 3, 2011
at 8:15 AM
Helen,
I’m sorry you lost Harold. I am thankful for your great insight, once again.
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By: HeidiLouWho on May 3, 2011
at 8:13 AM
Helen,
I just wanted you to know that we, here on your blog site love you and send our deepest condolences on the loss of Harold. You had a long life together, that is something to celebrate, especially in this day and age.
Please keep blogging, we have come to depend on your great wit and wisdom. It is a beacon of light from the land of Perry zombies.
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By: Mikat on May 3, 2011
at 8:06 AM
Helen, I’m sorry Harold isn’t here, too – for the reasons you said and for the empty space in your heart. As usual, you speak the truth plainly. I tried in a more personal way to express my disgust at the slobbering displays and was essentially told I was un-American. Just like when I said going to Iraq was stupid. Guess I better get used to it, eh? Drunk college students wrapped in flags screaming “USA! USA!” does not warm my heart. To the feral masses screaming that Obama didn’t do anything – it was the Navy SEALs who did it… try pointing out that bin Laden didn’t actually pilot any planes into any buildings but he got the blame (or credit, depending on your perspective) for it. Thanks to you and Margaret for helping me not feel so alone.
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By: JTBS on May 3, 2011
at 8:03 AM
While I was typing (I’m a little slow at that) I see Mike and Franken dropped in. My apology stands for their garbage also.
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By: PaPa23 on May 3, 2011
at 8:03 AM
Mike gives us all a bad rep. Some of us don’t watch Fox.
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By: Gina in AZ on May 3, 2011
at 8:01 AM
Helen
First, I apologize for Alan. As a male it pains me to have to share the species with such a self-centered lout as he. I’m sure he’ll be able to find what he wants where he goes after death.
Second, Most all of your fans worry when you’re gone for so long and rejoice when you return. This return is bittersweet. We may be rejoicing in your return and admiring of your resilience but we also share in your loss and pain. I’m sure there will be many prayers offered for Harold.
Third, I’d like to suggest that the folks at FOX be used in live training exercises to keep our fine Navy Seals in top shape. We couldn’t do the sea burial routine but would need to blast the remains deep into space. We’ve already polluted our planet enough.
Lastly, thanks for coming back to us, WE LOVE YA!! (((((((Helen)))))
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By: PaPa23 on May 3, 2011
at 7:58 AM
You all suck.
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By: Mike in AZ on May 3, 2011
at 7:57 AM
Oh, dear, so sorry to hear about Harold’s passing. Stay strong, Helen. You can count on your family and that dear dear Margaret for strength.
Fox sucks.
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By: MSL on May 3, 2011
at 7:56 AM
So good to hear from you ladies again! The Internet was a-washed with typos and mispronunciations that day and the day after. I can understand some typos esp. if people were excited and typing on their tiny phone screens. But the whole day on that network non-stop? UK is still not allowing Fox News to be shown over there as “news” right? Why can’t we uphold the same standards? My PIL watches exclusively Faux news now and it is getting harder and harder for me to NOT judge them based on that.
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By: absence of alternatives on May 3, 2011
at 7:56 AM
Damn, Lady, you are something funny!
Who is Harold??
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By: Frankenlock on May 3, 2011
at 7:54 AM
Oooh I see that Mike from Naziland has made an appearance. There’s one in every crowd.
Helen, please give us a warning next time. I almost spewed coffee all over my keyboard, dear. I am so happy to hear from you again, but apparently you have been busy with Harold’s passing. My condolences. You’re right, FOX news has a daily stupidity competition among their bimbos.
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By: WakeUpAmerica on May 3, 2011
at 7:53 AM
Helen we love you! Sorry for your loss.
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By: BR549 on May 3, 2011
at 7:52 AM
I’m very, very sorry to hear about Harold’s death, Margaret. I hope you’re getting along well.
Yeah, FOX was a fiasco the minute they got word the Prez was waking us all up. Geraldo just about crapped his pants that he was there when the news came in–this after much, much ridiculous speculation. So much for serious news, Geraldo.
Anyway, glad to hear from you guys. Margaret . . . hugs, my dear.
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By: Fragrant Liar on May 3, 2011
at 7:47 AM
“The Bush Administration waited less than 24 hours before trying to take credit. Morons.”
There is plenty of credit to go around. The current administration just picked up the hunt for bin Laden where the last one left off. And good for them, too. Well done.
Kudos to EVERYONE. I just hope that shot to his head at least hurt a little before he went unconscious.
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By: PFesser on May 3, 2011
at 7:46 AM
Fox knows more than you creeps.
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By: Mike in AZ on May 3, 2011
at 7:45 AM
Mr. Van Susteren. LMAO
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By: Racey on May 3, 2011
at 7:42 AM
The Bush Administration waited less than 24 hours before trying to take credit. Morons.
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By: Trey on May 3, 2011
at 7:41 AM
Typical Fox. Sorry for your loss Helen. My wife passed away two years ago. It gets easier so hang in there.
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By: David on May 3, 2011
at 7:39 AM
Helen! I’m so glad you’re back, and very sorry to read about Harold’s death. I wish he could have seen the US get Osama Bin Laden.
You’re right about Faux News, as always. They don’t have a thimbleful of brains amongst them all, and even less class. Maybe they will have fewer viewers now that they have one less drum to beat.
Keep fighting the good fight, please. We’ve missed you.
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By: thatotherjean on May 3, 2011
at 7:38 AM
Oh, Margaret—I am so sorry to hear of Harold’s passing.
I thought something was amiss when we had not heard from you two wonderful gals in such a long time.
As usual, this article was right on target…thank you !
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By: attagirl on May 3, 2011
at 7:31 AM
hahahahahahaahaaa…Hooray for telling it like it is Helen!
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By: LG-R on May 3, 2011
at 7:31 AM
72 virgins? The worst sex in the world is with a virgin. It’s more like a sentence than a reward. I’d rather have 72 expert hookers when I die.
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By: Alan on May 3, 2011
at 7:29 AM
First, I am so sorry for your loss, Helen.
Regarding Palin, Fox & friends: NOCD – Not Our Class, Darling.
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By: Miss Demeanor on May 3, 2011
at 7:28 AM
Welcome back! Just in time. We’ll need you as Fox spirals out of control on this one! So very sorry to hear about Harold. Our prayers are with you and your family.
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By: Deedee on May 3, 2011
at 7:23 AM
Actually I was thinking of the (probably apocryphal) Blackjack Pershing method.
Sew him up in pigskin and leave him on the fantail of the boat in the hot sun for about two weeks. After the sea birds have had their way with him, toss him and his pigskin overboard, like they do the sewage from the head.
Of course, videotape the whole thing.
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By: PFesser on May 3, 2011
at 7:22 AM