Margaret, tell Howard that the difference between me and Rush Limbaugh is that I don’t lie in order to support my opinion. That fat bastard Limbaugh will say anything to keep his ratings up and counts on his fans being too lazy to check the facts. And as far as the next election, Howard is probably right. This fickle country of ours will probably put the Republicans back in control of something and it will start all over again. It’s sad really.
I wonder if the Grand Old Party has taken a step back recently and gotten a good look at just how tarnished they have become? You’ve got one Governor shooting wolves out of helicopters and another using laser guided missiles to take out coyotes during his morning jog. You’ve got the Tea Party rooting for insurance companies instead of kids and the Right-To-Lifers shooting doctors at church. The GOP even has homophobes practicing homosexuality. And “drill, baby, drill” isn’t sounding too great for a battle cry these days, but by God they’re sticking to it. From where I sit, the entire Republican Party should head to OZ – looking for a brain, a heart and a pair of testicles.
Honestly, do Republicans put their guns down long enough to wipe their asses or do they just take a chance and occasionally wound themselves in the privates? What the hell are these people thinking? Have you listened to Rush Limbaugh recently? And if you have, please tell me why. We know he never graduated from College. We know his mother said he flunked everything. We know that much of his career was spent high on hillbilly heroin. And we know for damn sure he lies. There is actually an entire organization dedicated to exposing his lies from each and every broadcast. So how in God’s name can you repeat his garbage in your emails and comments to me and not expect me to immediately discount you for a fool?
For the record. I have no issue with all these morons asking to see President Obama’s birth certificate. After all, for eight years I demanded that President Bush produce a GED document to prove he had a brain. I never did get proof, but I also knew when to give up… right about the time he said that the human being and fish could coexist peacefully. The birth certificate argument is a horse as dead as the coyote that almost ate Governor Good Hair.
The absolute absurdity of it all has become… well… absurd.
Margaret, you have to ask yourself:
How many guns do you need before you cross the line from hunter to paranoid militia member?
How much oil has to wash ashore in the Gulf Coast before we seriously consider solar, wind and other alternative fuel sources?
How many skeletons and fossils do we have to dig up before evolution seems more plausible than the story of God sleeping in after six days of hard work?
How many wars do we have to start before we realize that, in war, there are no winners except Dick Cheney and Halliburton?
How long before Tea Party members stop misspelling signs and just start burning crosses?
Does that law in Arizona really do anything to fix immigration or is it just a new way of saying you don’t want a Mexican buying the house next door?
And just how stupid does Sarah Palin have to be before you reconsider giving her the codes to the nukes?
About that last one. I really, really do mean it.
Margaret and Helen 
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Well, hello Jean.
You asked for a favor, and I was the only one who delivered. I didn’t expect a “thank you,” but you now know I will return good for evil. You, on the other hand return evil for good, don’t you?
I do enjoy knowing I am inside of your head. Why else would you be so apparently obsessed by people like me? A normal person would ignore us, but not you. Now, you compare us to barnacles. I am still a producer, and my taxes help pay your bills. That makes you more of a parasite than I.
Which species of barnacle are you? I vote for Pilumnopeus serratifrons.
Aloha! Namaste. Shalom.
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By: James on May 1, 2011
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Hi Congenial Gang,
Any one of Helen’s posts is as timely today as when she first put it up and is worth re-reading. That is the hallmark of a great writer. Most of the contributors here have been quite informative and congenial with the exception of only a few. Those few remind me of barnacles.
This vital information is a brief summary of what barnacles are all about. In case you are not familiar with these critters, you can read more on Google and see pictures of them too. They are not very pretty! Barnacles are anthropods who live in their shells in the water, mostly oceans. They attach themselves to rocks instead of crawling after food. They are hermaphrodytic. The barnacle will live out its life inside its “shell house” firmly attached to one spot on the rock. It cannot move about and is dependent upon the high tides to bring all the things that it needs to survive.
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Aloha! Namaste. Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on May 1, 2011
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It is clear that ignorance isn’t an age issue. As far as I can see, Obama is Bush on Steroids. Bush funds the first bail out, leaves the borders open and funds a war that has gone now where. And Obama follows in spade. Wake up and smell reality.
I have to thank you because it is your kind that have spawned the beginnings of new parties. Democrat or Republican same shit different animal.
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By: Dan Tocchini on October 27, 2010
at 4:49 PM
Diane, you mean the honor that Bush managed to tar during his illegal tenure?
I was in Washington, DC three years ago visiting the National Archives. I really wanted to see the US Constitution but was told that it was out for repairs. I laughed to myself and replied, “Of course it is, because Bush shredded it.” They just smiled.
Love your site ladies – thanks for sharing your letters with us.
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By: TinkerToy on August 31, 2010
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Please keep writing. You are voices of sanity in an absolutely insane world where Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin are holding a rally about our country taking back its honor.
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By: poolman on August 22, 2010
at 4:01 PM
Out of the mouths of cartoon characters oft times come history lessons:
The Pinky Show: Vietnam
PEACE
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By: Anonymous on August 22, 2010
at 12:52 PM
Pfessor, ironic, my husband survived an aortic arch dissection in 2006. Yes I get GE makes some good stuff (not appliances – ours are all GE, and being replaced with anything but) It’s just ironic that they profited from the destruction of a country, and profit in it’s rebuilding…
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By: Dawn on August 19, 2010
at 11:43 PM
pfessor, I devoured science fiction, and thought of Clark’s law too, also. We could buy paperback books for $.25 or so through our school book club.
You are right. The wagon tracks still remain in the Platte Valley of Nebraska. So do buffalo wallows if you know where to look.
An old stage road remains on the loess hills east of us, and arrowheads are easy to find where Indians were buried after an inter tribal battle. People here still tell stories of how it was when Jessie James’ gang rested in our county.
My great grandmother thought something was wrong on a sunny January day in 1888, and when the weather turned bad that afternoon, she refused to let her students go home. Because of her caution, she probably saved their lives from the Blizzard of ’88 or the Childrens’ Blizzard because so many children died on their way home from school.
She and her students formed a chain because the visibility was so low. Someone held on to the sod building while the group swept through the school yard until they found her horse. They put it in the school with them.
My great grand mother’s brother walked 14 miles to see his first electric lights.
My grandfather used to sing
“Nebraska land, Nebraska land
Upon your fruited plain I stand
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and wonder why it never rains.”
Yes, they would have thought any one suggesting how we would live now to be crazy.
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By: James on August 19, 2010
at 6:14 PM
James –
“Professor, we live in an age of miracles don’t we?”
When I was in grade school and high school I devoured science fiction and I often think of Clarke’s third law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
What I have always found most remarkable though is man’s range from good to bad, from almost unfathomable innovation and beauty to really unfathomable depravity. I often fly, and when I cross the Plains, I always look down to see if I can find the wagon tracks that legend has can still be seen if you know where to look. And the thought is always the same: If you told those people in those wagons that their young children would – in their lifetimes – be able to make the same trip in two hours that was taking them three months; that they would do it six miles straight up, at 550 miles per hour, in air 120 degrees below zero – and would do so in perfect comfort, with a cute young lady or gentleman serving them lunch – they would tie you to the wagon for the rest of the trip, since you were obviously crazy.
Yet here it is. Yes we live in an age of miracles. And it can only get better.
(cross posted to M&H new posting)
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 19, 2010
at 11:43 AM
Our niece and her husband returned from their second tour in Iraq last winter. They also spent time in Afghanistan, so I know how you feel. As Poolman wrote, “May God bless all those in the midst of warefare…”
I agree Poolman, but we have to live with the world as it is. l can’t think of any country which would dominate the world with greater good than the United States. That is why I root for our side though the other side can have valid grievances.
It is ironic isn’t it Dawn. These are multinational companies that hire people where ever they can pay the lowest wage.
Professor, we live in an age of miracles don’t we?
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By: James on August 19, 2010
at 9:52 AM
Dawn –
I wonder what Mr. Edison would think of the Edison General Electric Company these days?
Their products are pretty remarkable. Our hospital just purchased a 64-slice GE CAT scanner; I just diagnosed a 49 year-old man’s aortic dissection yesterday (that’s where the lining of the largest blood vessel in the body peels away from the wall and the blood begins to leak out. In past times, they were over 95% fatal.) When I was in training, to diagnose this condition we would spend hours in a dangerous arteriogram procedure, hoping to get a hint of what was wrong; now it takes me four minutes from the time the patient gets on the table until he gets off. Then another minute for the computer to reconstruct the images. Then one minute for a phone call to the Emergency Room. From the time he hit the door until he was on the helicopter was twenty minutes. Amazing technology – it clearly saved this 49 year-old father’s life.
You mentioned GE engines. As also a pilot and electrical engineer, I am in awe of GE aircraft engines; conceded by even their competitors to be the best in the world. When you fly, those engines are constantly being monitored by GE from the ground, and any anomaly is fed into computers which diagnose the most likely cause and feed the data to the airplane’s next stop so technicians can fix it if necessary. This is all done without the pilot’s knowledge, unless it is a safety issue. What a shame to see such beautiful engineering go for the purpose of killing humans…my college roomie used to say that if we could kill people with sunbeams we’d have had solar power years ago.
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By: PFesser53 on August 19, 2010
at 4:13 AM
Who benefits from our toil you ask? (military) Uh, that would be the corportations who sell war.
I find it incredibly ironic that GE now has a stong foothold in Viet Nam ( USA TODAY, 8/18) First the company makes $ building engines to drive the airplanes that drop the bombs that destroy the flora, fauna, and those pesky live of people that live there.
Now, it is making money giving the Vietnamese people jobs… don’t bother making things here in the US. Truly ironic.
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By: Dawn on August 18, 2010
at 10:17 PM
May God bless all those in the midst of warfare, where ever they are, I pray. Help them, Father, to make wise choices and keep them under Your Almighty wings. Bless those over them. Give them noble commanders. Please give us all a desire to end these wars and our occupations. Let us support our troops by bringing them all home to their families. Let all those who perpetrate war disappear from among our numbers. Let us learn to be doers of good and supporters of life, I pray.
When will our military actually support our troops?
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By: poolman on August 18, 2010
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I hold your hand Greytdog, since I am also concerned this a dangerous time, I too have family members still in Iraq.
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By: no one's puppet on August 18, 2010
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The last American combat brigade has left Iraq & is now Kuwait. In a couple of weeks or so, they will be home. Troops still in country no longer on a combat mission but are in a training/transition m.o. Security for American personnel & the International Zone (aka Green Zone) will be shared between Iraqi army & mercenaries. My oldest stepson is there. The Intl Zone shelled twice already tonight…he expects an uptick in violence. . .
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By: Greytdog on August 18, 2010
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James, mankind hasn’t changed over generations in the way they desire to manipulate others for personal gain. It is that inherent nature that we have to overcome to truly subsist peacefully on one planet. Many have gone before us and we have hand-me-down knowledge to sort things out. Those that hold power and wealth have always resorted to any means, no matter how extreme, to hold on to it or gain more.
Afterall, one person’s jihad movement is another’s crusade. Who benefits from the chaos? That is who stages it. It is an orchestrated game for control of the resources. Look beyond the players to those that actually have admitted to using terror to force their agendas. Sometimes the hardest things to truly see are the most familiar and in plain sight.
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By: poolman on August 18, 2010
at 7:05 PM
Poolman, I posted an answer, but I think the internet ate it. I agree in part, but our response to the jihad movement was more defensive than offensive. We didn’t wage a serious attack until after 9/11. The Cold war began more as a reaction to the Soviets than the other way around.
I think the United States should behave as TR advised. “Speak softly and carry a big stick.”Don’t go looking for trouble. If we have no choice but to fight a war, it is best to do it with overwhelming force and end it as quickly as possible. Then, make a friend of our defeated enemy as we did the Germans and Japanese.
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By: James on August 18, 2010
at 4:25 PM
Craig, I’m good with our Republic as was the original intent. Any form of government can be oppressive or not, it depends on how those in power use that authority in the treatment of others.
Meinst du, macht nichts, pfesser? Oder macht keinen Unterschied? Vielleicht ist das Problem mit deinen zehnten Rang-Physik-Klasse. Wissenschaft entwickelt sich.
James, I have been researching much of that era now that a lot of classified information is available through the FOIA. It doesn’t make mainstream news. We tend to want to forget that era, and actually have been quite successful in that. Except, that is, for those directly involved. They are fewer and fewer as time advances. But we have not learned from that time what we hoped and vowed. Today peoples have to prove they are not enemies or threats to us, rather than the other way around. We have a proactive stance, rather than reactive. Offensive rather than defensive. That works well for humanity with medicine, not so much in war.
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By: poolman on August 18, 2010
at 11:27 AM
Craig’s interpretation of history is reasonably accurate.
As he wrote, our forces are usually the first to show up during emergencies and natural disasters. For example, the UN complained that not many countries who could have done as much as the United States for flooded regions of Pakistan.
A difference between us and most of our enemies is we don’t institutionalize cruelty, and they do.
The history of Vietnam is more complex than our schools usually teach. Ho Chi Ming was one of many revolutionaries who wanted to be independent of Europeans like the French. He asked the United States for help. We refused because France was our ally.
Ho turned to the Soviets and became a communist. WW11 and the Japanese occupation united all sides, in part because of Japanese cruelty. After the war Ho’s group systematically eliminated his competitors, some of whom wanted a democracy.
They defeated the French and a struggle between the autocratic north and democratic south resumed. Thousands of northerners fled to the south to escape Ho’s brutality.
The geopolitical reality of enough nuclear bombs and missiles to destroy the world made the Soviets and West reluctant to wage face to face hot wars. Both sides were rational enough to do what they could to avoid a fatal mistake, so they fought proxy wars.
Thus, the communists helped the North, and we responded with aid to the South. The major powers had taken over a local civil war, and it took on a greater meaning than it previously had. The war became a test of the two systems and the domino theory was born. If Vietnam fell, South East Asia and maybe the Philipines would become communist.
Johnson lied when he used the Gulf of Tolkin as an excuse to escalate the war. He said he was not going to be the first modern Democrat to lose a war.
One thing our planners failed to take into account was a thousand years of bad blood between the Chinese and Vietnamese. The Chinese and Vietnamese were reluctant allies. I read that after the Soviet Union fell, researchers found documents recording important Soviet involvement in the war. I think the war reduced to its basic components was between the Soviets and the West.
The Tet Offensive was a military victory for the West. We won most of the other battles, as General Giap noted. He also said the North won the war on American and European college campuses. The North Vietnamese realized they could win through public opinion and propaganda.
The United States didn’t have the stomach for such a long, inconclusive war which killed so many of our youth, and the North used that fact to their advantage.
The United States negotiated a pseudo peace with Ho’s government, and if I remember correctly Kissinger and his counterpart won the Nobel Peace Prize. South Vietnam’s president Ky condemned the treaty as a sell out.
The treaty created something like the Korean stalemate. The North planned to violate the treaty and conquer the South after our attention turned elsewhere. Fighting continued but most of our troops were gone or in support positions. The South made lavish use of air power as we had taught them, and they held their own.
After Watergate, an anti- war generation of representatives gained enough power to stop aid to South Vietnam. Gerald Ford practically begged Congress to keep helping the South, but his political position was so weakened there was nothing he could do.
The emotional impact on the South was dramatic. An experimental northern incursion turned into a rout which surprised Ho’s forces. They took advantage and pressed on. Panic stricken Southerners fled for safety, and so did many of the military. They stole helicopters, trucks and other machines to transfer them and their families to safety.
It became a tidal wave which fed on itself. An Army man told me Montenarg tribesmen who bravely helped us for years radioed for help as North Vietnamese troops surrounded their bases. There was nothing he could do, so he sadly turned off the radio.
A local television meteorologist I knew was an Army reporter and one of the last to leave Saigon. He was a comedian, and made weather shows interesting. Tom was also a civic power house in Sioux City. I wasn’t the only one who felt a dark cloud which seemed to surround him. He saw things he never talked about.
We made the South Vietnamese dependent on our money and they created an urban economy which mirrored ours. We unintentionally corrupted their society. We promised them they could depend on us, and they believed we would keep our word.
We lied to people who had risked their lives to help us. We left them standing outside our embassy walls waiting for rescue we knew would never come.
Many Vietnamese airmen took their families and flew helicopters to our ships stationed off shore. Some jumped out of their helicopters a few feet over the water within sight of our ships and hoped for rescue. So many landed on carriers, our sailors had to push them overboard to make room for more.
We owed the South Vietnamese who had faith in our word. They ended up in re -education camps and some were killed or tortured. Others died as boat people who tried to escape.
After news of the Killing Fields spread, Joan Biaz, who was prominent in the anti-war movement, said maybe they had misjudged the North Vietnamese. Most didn’t care.
I think “War on Terror” had roots in our abandonment of Vietnam.
“The road to Hell is paved with good intentions,” and both sides who used Vietnam for their own battles created Hell in Southeast Asia.
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By: James on August 18, 2010
at 8:51 AM
sorry – Pollyanna, not polyanna
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By: pfesser on August 18, 2010
at 6:59 AM
Coffee/Kathy –
Actually, I think Craig’s problem is that he is too polyanna – he thinks that almost everybody is, underneath, reasonable, and if he presents another side to an argument, reasonable people will consider it.
Of course, the day I discovered this sad little place I realized that almost nobody – with, I later learned, the exception of Rae – has the self-confidence necessary to consider other points of view and concede points well-made. Having been unable to successfully illustrate a point using tenth-grade physics, I realized that to have a conversation, your co-discussant has to have: a) a certain minimum level of basic knowledge and b) a desire to learn – rather than just a desire to have others blow sunshine up his arse and tell him what a fine fellow he is.
When I came, I surmised immediately that reason is precisely why James and Craig are unappreciated by some here, and subsequent experience has done nothing to refute that opinion.
Of course, I am implacable, but I detect a certain weariness in Craig and James. My advice to them would be to cut your losses. As William Claude Dukenfield said, never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Waste on James’ and Craig’s part; annoyance by everyone else. Don’t squander your brain power, fellas. Your effort machs nix.
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By: pfesser on August 18, 2010
at 6:58 AM
You’re welcome, no ones’ puppet.
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By: James on August 18, 2010
at 6:46 AM
I think Craig needs to get out more…or maybe a hobby. Sad really.
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By: Kathy on August 18, 2010
at 5:37 AM
Let’s all just agree to disagree that Craig’s head is not up his ass.
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By: Coffee on August 17, 2010
at 9:34 PM
“Why haven’t all our efforts made this a better place? Who benefits from our toil? Who is taking care of the land? The sea? Poolman”
And so, if those glasses you are looking through cannot give you a view of what it would be like without a United States as the policeman or caretaker..then what kind of world would we have?
The United Nations is a farce. It might have worked for the Korean war..but that’s just because the Russians decided to take a walk on the wrong day and the votes went against them.
Would you prefer to have to kind of government of North Korea?
How about Iran?
Cuban troops in Grenada..once upon a time.
Venezuela and their idiot in charge…
Panama and their former dope dealer..
I realize that there are atrocities on both sides in all wars. But that’s why they call it war not playtime.
The only rule is to play to win, unless you want to play and pander to the media or politicians. AKA Vietnam.
Cruelty?
The British with their prison ships during the Revolutionary war.
The same with Union and Southern prison camps.
World War I with chemical warfare..
The Holocaust..
Killings of GI’s at Malmedy during the Bulge and I’m sure there were some times when Germans were not treated so kindly as well.
Korea,Vietnam, yes we both have seen the horrors many times as portrayed by both sides.
But I’ve not seen many times when Military forces from other countries have showed up after earthquakes or other disasters..
Not many pics with USSR or Al Queda stamped on the side of a bag of rice being handed out.
Hell ..North Korea can hardly feed their own because they put so much into arms.
Poolman lets just agree to disagree that you have a jaded impression of American military or for that matter any American efforts and that includes political at assisting other countries in need, since you always see it as a gift I.E. military /cash donation with strings.
And as for assisting the peoples during the Bosnian war and hunting down the perpetrators of war crimes? What say you there? What did we stand to gain? But we showed up..and I’m sorry to say too late in many cases.
As I said we have our differences.
Interesting..My son arrived in Singapore last week for the next six weeks to participate in the continued exercises concerning the “what if’s” of a North Korean invasion. He’s based at a Command and Control facility that the U.S. has based there.
He told me by phone last weekend that one of the
“what if’s”, was how to respond to the evacuation of villagers and others retreating from the N. Koreans and how to organize our ships for the extraction and care of these people.
Have a good evening….
“Use plenty of light. Light is a needed disinfectant in this land.”..
and thus I offer people like Rod Blagojevich getting off pretty much scott free.
Just my opinion.
CRaig
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By: Craig on August 17, 2010
at 8:43 PM
Craig, I grew up an Army brat. When my parents married, Dad was in the Navy stationed on an aircraft carrier out at sea. Then re-upped in the Army and during my kid years worked his way up to CWO4. He was a lifer, and he was a respected soldier. He served one tour in Vietnam – never talked about it. He was active duty the day he died of a heart attack almost 2 months shy of 42 years of age.
We saw wonderful places and I had a strong sense of love for my country and pride in our military. Dad was an electronics wiz and was in charge of maintenance for the “computer” guidance systems for our missle systems. When he was stationed in Fulda, Germany during the cold war, he was one of two that could do his job. That made for restricted travel and a lot of quick trips to places unknown to us. We were just kids enjoying the bountiful pleasures of youth in a land of adventure.
Growing up in America was great. I became a happy consumer. On the outside everything was so shiny and true. Just like the Disney version. It was a wonderful ride, you want it to go on forever….
But at whose expense? Why haven’t all our efforts made this a better place? Who benefits from our toil? Who is taking care of the land? The sea? The nice places I go back to are gone. They have changed. No one is leaving things better than they found it. We promote crooks. We force poverty and imprisonment on others. The moneychangers are running the show. We acquire, hoard, cheat, take. Who can get the most? The first? The biggest? All at the expense of other life. I don’t care how we package it, the undercoat isn’t as pretty as the outside. The deeper I dig, the uglier it gets. We need to get the evil out of this nation, as like a cancer. It has spread everywhere. All the powers over us are influenced. It is like fibers in the tapestry of our culture – very hard to remove and distinguish. But we can sure see the “fruit” of it. That is, if you are willing to remove the colored glasses. Better vision. Use plenty of light. Light is a needed disinfectant in this land. May He give us more light, I pray.
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By: poolman on August 17, 2010
at 7:33 PM
“I was somewhat disturbed…” – pfesser
Tell me about it! Since the Japanese Empire was subdued, we get to learn all about them and their sins. I followed the Wiki link you provided and read the info. That was a well documented massacre including film and eyewitnesses. Just like we do in all of our fighting. Since the US is still the top dog Empire, so much of our sins and atrocities are still suppressed and kept out of the history books. Afterall, we wear the white hats, right? Can’t have any blemishes, now can we?
However, many are being brought to light, despite great efforts to keep them under wraps. All the abuses in Abu Graib, etc., is nothing new.
We are all familiar with the My Lai massacre, but that was minor in comparison to other massacres and war crimes. There is even a museum of American war crimes in Ho Chi Minh City. Google “Tiger Force” and you will see a little more of the things our guys were doing there – all sanctioned by their commanders. And that was just Vietnam. There we fought the Viet Cong – the natives fighting for their freedom from the occupiers – first the French, then us. It had nothing to do with a “spread of communism.”
Through the FOIA, we know the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a false flag giving the US an excuse for invasion.
One of my buddies that was there was telling me about one of the guys in his unit that snapped. He would go out at night and attack “the enemy”. One day when they got up there were over a dozen heads propped on sticks in the camp from his overnight carnage. That ended his tour…
There are so many others I could go through in many other lands from the Americas to Europe and Asia. Korea had recently opened investigations into the atrocities done on its civilian population during our conflict there. We documented those very well. North Korea has an exhibit depicting US and allies war atrocities.
So I guess it always looks more humane and justified when it’s “our guys” doing the maimin’.
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By: poolman on August 17, 2010
at 5:40 PM
Poolman.
You know my position.
History.
You can rewrite it if you wish..but that does not make it so.
I will grant you one thing. Several European countries still held on to their beliefs that the sun should never set on their country/states. As in Great Britain, France and the Dutch. And America if you say we were occupiers of the Philippines.
Japan,Germany and Italy all had designs on expanding their sphere of influence around the world. In simple terms…
Japan had an Imperor who had no control over the Generals. And they started practicing in the Russo/Japan war. Then continued unabated in China because the rest of the world looked the other way.
Germany had a mad man wanting nothing more than to rule the world plus he had help with a world economy that was in ruins until he came along and gave everybody jobs for creating a war machine. England gave him Hitler anything he wanted and signed away several country’s rights to save their own skin.
Italy had a wannabe gangbanger essentially.
Mussolini who wanted to ride the coattails of Hitler.
And Russia’s Stalin was coy enough to just wait everyone out until it bit him in the ass.
But to say that Americans as a whole were complicit in a purposeful effort by design to murder and rape the countryside of Vietnam is just wrong.
You can say it based on Lt.Calley and a few other
isolated incidents, but you cannot brand the whole of American efforts in Vietnam as a effort to what “go for the Oil” as you have stated on so many other occasions …and using anything with American troops being sent abroad as a effort to assimilate that country to be under our thumb.
I believe you were some what hurt in some way or other by the armed forces at one point or another.
Possibly a father or some other family member is involved.
Your hatred is only matched by Ms. Jean and her diatribes about American interventions.
Of course no one ever gives the American services credit for saving and preserving life.
I could go on Poolman..but you have your mind made up.
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By: Craig on August 17, 2010
at 5:18 PM
Poolman –
I was somewhat disturbed by your last post, which I interpreted as suggesting that the actions of *some* Vietnam-era American soldiers was in some way morally equivalent to the *officially sanctioned* actions of the Japanese in WWII.
Here is a fairly neutral, but pretty graphic description of their behavior in Nanking, China. Arguably the worst, but very equivalent to their behaviors elsewhere, especially including the Philippines, and illuminates the Japanese thought process during that time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
I don’t think very many folks have the slightest concept of what these people did during that war. One of my oldest friends won’t even speak of Japan, and I respect his wishes; when we speak of the War, I never bring it up.
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 17, 2010
at 11:25 AM
Johnson –
C’mon man – chill out. It’s a hell of a pull to get folks here to disagree without name-calling, and you already have people decompensating.
Make good points, and even if you piss people off, they will respond to you. Just name-call or show you really don’t know your stuff and they will just ignore you to death.
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 17, 2010
at 11:01 AM
My mother is a psychic and she says she has a strong feeling that Helen has gone to be with the Lord.
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By: Sara T. on August 17, 2010
at 10:52 AM
Dekurker,
You must the the old broad’s daughter for not having anymore respect than she does for our nations finest.
And you Lady and I use that term lightly are full of it,
bullshit..that is.
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By: Johnson on August 17, 2010
at 10:03 AM
Thanks for the comments about my mother, she had her moments, when she showed a lot of gumption and a personal flair.
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By: no one's puppet on August 17, 2010
at 9:53 AM
Oh, I do hope nothing has happened to these two remarkable Ladies. I have so enjoyed their postings.
Wishing you the best, Ladies!
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By: Marion R. on August 17, 2010
at 5:47 AM
Johnson, I call bullshit. The people threatening our freedoms are right here in our own country. They strip the freedoms away a little at a time out of fear.
I’d greet you properly but you don’t deserve it. Instead I’ll use vocabulary you can grasp. You’re a rude and an ass.
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By: Delurker on August 16, 2010
at 7:41 PM
Poolman, I think your quote about our soldiers in Vietnam was one Senator John Kerry made. He lied through exaggeration for political reasons.
New Zealanders may have introduced the practice of cutting off the ears of dead combatants. Some soldiers made necklaces of them. I saw the dried ears.
North Vietnamese soldiers sometimes wired babies with explosives and left them by the side of the road to destroy them and soldiers who stopped to pick them up. They put bombs on teenagers or children and made them enter military buildings.
My brother said enemy solders preferred to be held by Americans rather than Koreans who they judged to be meaner.
Our pilots were frustrated because they weren’t allowed to bomb hospitals and schools from where missiles were firing to shoot our air planes down.
John McCaine and others are still physically impaired by the torture they endured. Our side did nasty things, but I think the enemy was worse.
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By: James on August 16, 2010
at 5:26 PM
Poolman, I don’t know if it is public enemy number one, but the press does rank near the top.
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By: James on August 16, 2010
at 4:46 PM
Posted by some ole broad
“Why are we the self-appointed ‘Super Power’ and policeman of the world? Many of those military bases are huge, larger than some of the towns of the countries in which they are located. ”
Why?
So you can continue to live that lifestyle your accustomed to. You know, the one where you can blast the nation’s finest for doing what they do best.
That is, Keeping your fat ass safe from some suicide bomber.
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By: Johnson on August 16, 2010
at 3:58 PM
Yes, no ones’ puppet, I agree with you. As we know, the victor is not always right either, though it says so. With no one surviving or strong enough to dispute, the victor becomes “right”. Most countries objectify their enemies to make them less human and easier to kill. Hatred is a good motivator, as you wrote.
You illustrated the concept well. Your mother’s kindness to the lonely woman is especially touching. I’ll bet some of her values rubbed off on you.
My influences included my parents teaching us we were all worthy of equal treatment. Then, one day our high school principal told us what had happened to her family during WW1. Their own friends and neighbors vandalized their home, threw yellow paint on their house and ostracized them because they were Germans.
This woman and her family had long since regained their respected status when I knew her. It was such a shock and so different from my parents’ teachings that people and their descendants whom I knew and liked could be so ugly.
I ran with a group of blacks on one base. Some called me a N lover, but it was sort of good natured,and I ignored it. What angered me was how my friends educated me on being black in the 1960’s. Our own country, the best in the world was doing awful things to its own citizens who’s only sin was to have black skin.
My officers put me in harm’s way to catch some bad guys. They betrayed me and I nearly died. I also learned things about myself better left unexamined. It was the first time, I really hated myself.
Then at my first grad school orientation party I said I was a Vietnam era veteran. Someone said “you don’t belong here you fascist. We’ll get rid of you!” They were judging me like my black friends on my membership in a group, not on my character. Unlike them, I could lie about my service. They couldn’t change their skin color.
I was angry and hate- filled in those days. I hated the world and I hated anti- war protesters, though I didn’t show it. I decided to change it to a positive force. We grad students worked long hours to get good grades. I used my anger as a stimulant to give me the energy to work as hard as or harder than students younger than I. It worked.
Thanks again for your stories. I think there is still hope for us, especially when I hear stories about people like your mother.
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By: James on August 16, 2010
at 3:54 PM
Jean,
I thought you would like this…
Subject: 1945 – VJ Day in Hawaii…
http://vimeo.com/5645171
This is fabulous restored amateur footage from 1945 16mm………. you’re gonna love it.
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By: chrystal on August 16, 2010
at 3:10 PM
God bless your Moma NOP!! And you too for that matter! May He bless your socks off! XO to all!
We miss you M & H…………
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By: azgrandma on August 16, 2010
at 2:57 PM
How many times do we have to prove it? American press is public enemy number one. I am in full agreement here.
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By: poolman on August 16, 2010
at 1:42 PM
Donna, I hope you resurface to share a smirk with me over the Supreme Court’s decision on Orly! Stop by the kitchen if you have time! (Just click on my name)
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By: delurkergurl on August 16, 2010
at 1:28 PM
You might conclude James, “might makes right” is only for the victor. History shows us over and over what humans are capable of inflicting on others, mostly, because we have been indoctrinated. If we weren’t taught to hate, wars would still happen, but there would be far fewer war crimes.
I have three memories from very early childhood that somewhat demonstrate this concept. When I was perhaps four, I know I wasn’t in school yet, I said the N word, my father scooped me up and before I knew it, he was washing my mouth out with soap and saying, “his children would not speak like white trash.” I had to ask my sister in private later, what I said, she explained, some people call black people by that name, but that ignorant. My next question, “what is a black person?” “Like Louis Armstrong,” she said. Oh!
About that same time period, this same sister, advised me before we entered a photography shop, that the man inside was a “good Jap not a bad one,” good to know I thought. For awhile after that I though, some people with thick glasses are not nice people. My sister was obviously influenced by the war propaganda, fortunately her bias didn’t stay with her for life. The other thing, that made a profound impression on me as a small child, was my mother dressing to the nines to visit a neighbor, a first generation German woman. My mother literally made sure all the other neighbors knew where she was walking when she went. As a matter of fact this woman was the only woman my mother ever visited for coffee, as my mother thought coffees were a waste of her valuable time. But mother knew how lonely this woman was and made an except, because none of the other women in the neighborhood would.
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By: no one's puppet on August 16, 2010
at 11:41 AM
My Korean born daughter in law still remembers accounts of what the Japanese did to her people years ago. Had our side lost, historians would have glorified the Japanese and Nazi’s deeds.
Another bit of history concerns the Lakota Sioux. They like the Europeans were relatively new to the Great Plains. Like us, they were empire builders and they like us, were expanding their territory through conquest. The Black Hills became their sacred ground after they stole them from another tribe.
My ancestors from Wales have an underground separatist movement. Northern Ireland fought to become independent of the British. The Basques also want to be independent of Spain. Kurds want their own independent country. They have about as much chance as Hawaiians do.
Its not fair, but might makes right.
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By: James on August 16, 2010
at 11:04 AM
Yeah, I’m sure our war conduct is so much more humane – NOT! It just depends on which side of the conflict you find yourself on. “[American soldiers] had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam. . .” And that was before we allowed torture…
Just keep living the life of illusion…
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By: poolman on August 16, 2010
at 10:54 AM
“Damn Americans – always wanting the readers’ digest version in this fast-food society. No wonder we don’t know our history. Attention spans are too short except when it comes to game time or pleasuring ourselves. Nothing ventured,…”
No, I am just able to prioritize, and I understand the concept of “opportunity cost.” I can read 10 images in 25 minutes and you know what it costs to get your x-rays read, so A 25 minute video is not a priority…
“It says we have illegally occupied and taken over the Island nation. ALL history and the documentation supports it.”
I’m sure we did – just like we did mainland America. Just like the Romans did with Boadicea and the English did with my people at Culloden. Whether it is “legal” or not depends on whether you are the winner or the loser. If you won, it’s legal. If you lost, it is illegal. Easy.
“There are native Hawaiians that have been working to get their nation back from the occupiers.”
Waste of time. Like this thread, really.
Yeah, talk to the Allied soldiers you know. I’m sure they are well aquainted with US propaganda and acts of imperialism. I’m sure they got the truth from their commanders like all soldiers do. Yeah, that’s the ticket….
If it’s OK with you, I’ll talk to the ones the Japs didn’t behead, the women they didn’t rape and subsequently kill; I’ll confer with the POWS who survived because of surprise Allied raids, since the Japs had a policy of killing all POWs if it looked like they would fall into Allied hands. I think they may actually know some truths independently of their commanders, since – unlike you or I – THEY WERE THERE.
Maybe while I’m at it, I’ll also confer with the Chinese mothers who watched Japanese soldiers toss their babies into the air and catch them on their bayonets.
Yes, you’re right. We don’t know our history, do we?
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By: pfesser on August 16, 2010
at 9:43 AM
I agree with no ones’ puppet. Greed is a stronger impulse than empathy. I believe private enterprise which is based on greed is successful at creating wealth for that reason. Combine it with enforced empathy, and lives improve.
Our founding fathers were aware of our nature. They created a government of checks and balances to short- circuit people’s natural inclinations. So far, it is the best system in the world.
It has brought us closer to “a world where all of the people have something to eat…” Even our poor are richer than most people in the world. Maybe our relative wealth and freedom has prevented us from revolting against our government. I wish we could create a society no one’s puppet describes.
I think we will soon reach the point where we can genetically engineer ourselves with different personal and physical traits than we now have. I hope we never do it.
Using drones to fight our wars has obvious benefits, but I think drones might devalue the impact of war. The dead, especially enemy civilian non- combatants may become even more abstract to us than they are.
The computerized warriors might let people take war less seriously than they do now. A country with drones might be more inclined to resort to violence than it would if an army of sons and daughters was at risk.
The nuclear arms race prevented nuclear and some conventional wars because both sides were afraid a miss -step would end the world. I’m not so sure an arms race of drones would have the same result.
I am an optimist and a realist.
“Joy comes from freedom.” I know. My wife and I live on the farm we paid for, and our nearest neighbor lives two miles away. That is as close to real freedom as anyone can get without being homeless.
I know about Eubie Blake. He played a song on the Today Show when he was about 100. Gene Shallet joked “don’t die on us.” His is an inspiring story.
So is Eddie Sach’s, the “Clown Prince of Racing.” While Katy Perry grew up in a loving California home she was an unlikely pop star. As a Christian, she has a positive influence too.
I learned in school “missionaries went to Hawaii to do good, and they did well.” Native Hawaiians would have done the same to us if they could have.
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By: James on August 16, 2010
at 9:04 AM
Damn Americans – always wanting the readers’ digest version in this fast-food society. No wonder we don’t know our history. Attention spans are too short except when it comes to game time or pleasuring ourselves. Nothing ventured,…
It says we have illegally occupied and taken over the Island nation. ALL history and the documentation supports it. There are native Hawaiians that have been working to get their nation back from the occupiers.
Yeah, talk to the Allied soldiers you know. I’m sure they are well aquainted with US propaganda and acts of imperialism. I’m sure they got the truth from their commanders like all soldiers do. Yeah, that’s the ticket….
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By: poolman on August 16, 2010
at 9:02 AM
Poolman –
Can you summarize? I don’t have the time to watch a 25 minute strip.
I suppose we could put it to a referendum as to whether Hawaiians would rather be an American state or under the Japanese. I’ll also pass on your comments to the few remaining Allied soldiers I know who fought in the Pacific and get back to you.
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By: pfesser on August 16, 2010
at 6:26 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Are you a whining pessimist or a shining optimist?
I invite you to Google the life of EUBIE BLAKE. He is the perfect example of the triumph of the human spirit over what for many people would be insurmountable obstacles.
For every lousy, miserable story, I can give you ten about remarkable people who improved their own lives and had positive influences on others.
iT IS ALL ABOUT ATTITUDE.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 15, 2010
at 10:19 PM
I think I would step this conversation back, if we are talking about evolution of man as in Darwinian evolution, survival of the fittest, warfare is inevitable. It is about having the most, being the best, having the most descendants, etc. I don’t believe there is any evidence that human beings are necessarily becoming more altruist or compassionate. As long as leaders have power over others, or as in America’s case, a complaisant Congress that goes along with anything asked of them, and business moguls operate unregulated, you get what you get. Until enough people express the opinion that enough is enough or someone with greater influence takes over, there for I think greed is a stronger force in mankind’s nature than empathy.
Now if we can create a world and an economy where all the people have something to eat, plenty of energy resources, and the means to assure the survival of all our descents, we can overcome our own innate nature.
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By: no one's puppet on August 15, 2010
at 9:29 PM
PFesser, I guess you are not up on the truth about the island nation. Not to worry, you are among the majority. I posted this some time ago before you were visiting this site and therefore I will repost for your benefit.
Hawaii vs US Imperialism
And then there is Kahoolawe…thar’s a whole nuther can ‘o’ worms… 😉
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By: poolman on August 15, 2010
at 9:21 PM
“humans have evolved to become more intelligent, more empathetic and cooperative as time goes by”
Maybe so, but I personally haven’t seen any sign of it so far…Do you have some kind of independent confirmation for that, or is it just your personal belief?
“The ego-centric nay-sayers are outnumbered by far.”
I prefer the term “steely-eyed realist,” and as for being outnumbered, of course, truth is not determined by a vote.
“Yes, there are pockets of violence and selfishness in every society.”
I think in recorded history there has been ONE six-month period without a war somewhere. Perhaps “pockets of violence” is the wrong phrase. “Ubiquitous, unrelenting violence” comes immediately to mind.
“But the decent, caring people who don’t make a lot of noise; that love each other, their children and their fellow man do and will prevail over the negative wanna-be headline grabbers.”
That is, of course the problem, isn’t it? “Love,” passivity, and an unwillingness to fight early on sounds good, but unfortunately inevitably leads to a hell of a fight later. See Hitler, Adolph. Love didn’t do very well against steel tanks and bullets back then and it won’t now. And yes, we prevailed – (that is, those who fought – not those who prayed and loved. Praise the lord and pass the ammunition). You as a Hawaiian should be the most relieved of all; the Japanese treated their conquered subjects very poorly. See “Manchuria.”
“Humankind IS capable of learning better ways to live on this planet, every day.”
Well, not so far, but there is always tomorrow…
“If you will, that is a God given gift. For those who can’t believe that, I am sorry they are missing out on so much joy in life.”
Joy comes from freedom. There are those who enjoy it because they fought for it and those who enjoy it because the others did their fighting for them. I don’t think any in the first group would exchange places with a single member of the second, so I guess you could say it is *they* who have the ultimate joy.
PFesser
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By: pfesser on August 15, 2010
at 8:49 PM
fan that Auntie Jean!
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By: lori on August 15, 2010
at 5:34 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I believe that just as it is here on this blog, as well as around the country and around the world, humans have evolved to become more intelligent, more empathetic and cooperative as time goes by. The ego-centric nay-sayers are outnumbered by far.
Yes, there are pockets of violence and selfishness in every society. But the decent, caring people who don’t make a lot of noise; that love each other, their children and their fellow man do and will prevail over the negative wanna-be headline grabbers.
Humankind IS capable of learning better ways to live on this planet, every day. If you will, that is a God given gift. For those who can’t believe that, I am sorry they are missing out on so much joy in life.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 15, 2010
at 5:21 PM
Wonderin’ of everything is OK. Hopin’ it is. Your fan.
H
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By: wonderin and hopin on August 15, 2010
at 4:05 PM
“Don’t trust the USA to be upfront and honest with” foreigners either. In the 1950’s Hungarians revolted against the Soviet Union, after we helped incite them with vague hints of help. Kurds and others revolted against Husein’s government after the Gulf War, again with encouragement from us, and once again, we left them hanging. We did the same to the South Vietnamese.
No government of any country can be trusted. We will remain pawns until we spend as much time on changing our government as we do on our jobs, families and hobbies.
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By: James on August 15, 2010
at 1:50 PM
When it comes to the war on terrorism and what started this latest “war,”compare this reprint of an enlightening interview in September 2001 with Hamid Gul and the recent accusations brought to light through Wikileaks and reported in Murdock’s Wall Street Journal (a true propaganda publication). It makes me question Wikileaks, as some others have, wondering whether they are a cointel tool of the CIA or truly what they claim. Either way, the end response should be – don’t trust the USA to be upfront and honest with its citizens. We are just the pawns in this game.
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By: poolman on August 15, 2010
at 9:18 AM
“War isn’t going away” because it is inborn. Living things compete for resources, and as societies evolve, they work collectively to destroy or control their competitors. Wolves, chimps, and humans for example operate under the same biological directive.
Our history is replete with theft and murder dressed up in wonderful patriotic and heroic words. Since people developed the technology and economies to wage large-scale wars we have competed to rule the world and take most of its resources as our own.
For the past century, it has been our turn to dominate most of our competitors. It may not be controlling territory in the conventional sense, but the United States runs a world-wide empire. An empire is like a teacher at a school recess. The teacher has the power to control the playground as we control the world .
China, Russia, Muslim jihadists, and others want to replace us. If the United States is gone, one or another will fill the vacume.
The president of Columbia or Bolivia’s saying a US base on their soil would be fine if they could have one on Miami is good logic, but it won’t fly. Everything is about the United States and its power. They might be right, but they don’t have the power.
We maintain bases across the world because it serves our interests, and that includes Iraq. In time, locals also benefit from our bases and our presence can become a type of foreign aid.
As the professor wrote, wars are progressively killing fewer people. I think drone battles will become more influential than human to human fighting. The winners may be the most adept at video games.
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By: James on August 15, 2010
at 9:04 AM
re: mechanized warfare
Jean – your points are well-taken, but there is an alternative view that I find interesting.
To the dead soldier and his – now her also – family, it is of little consequence how he was killed, whether through death ray from a drone or up_close_and_personal hand-to-hand with bayonets. What I believe IS important is how MANY are killed in a conflict and how much damage done, since wealth really is nothing but people’s labor made tangible.
The “modern” – if that is an appropriate term – wars have actually resulted in fewer and fewer casualties. And before you say it, I mean fewer on *both* sides. One of the ways this happens is through overwhelming force with a rapid resolution of the conflict. No more getting gassed by the thousands in the trenches. Bombs can be guided down individual smokestacks, and while you made the excellent point about collateral damage, the fact is that, while the business of warfare is killing people, modern guided munitions minimize civilian deaths. (unless of course you are you-know-who and your *purpose* is to kill civilians.
War isn’t going away. The question is how to give a war with the least total misery; maybe clone wars are actually the answer.
Thoughts?
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 15, 2010
at 5:38 AM
Speaking of US military bases on foreign soil, we saw the movie “South of the Border” a documentary by Oliver Stone. Lots of food for thought, but the one item that made me laugh out loud was the president of Bolivia or Columbia said the US could keep their military base there if he could put a military instillation in Miami.
Wondering if anyone else has seen this and has any thoughts.
Where oh where are you M&H??? I sincerely hope you’re alright!! You are sorely missed!
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By: Dawn on August 14, 2010
at 9:46 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, poolman, elsie09 and no one’s puppet,
Thanks Bruddah poolman and Sistah elsie for the links. I sure don’t know how you two pull off that magic!!!
I miss dear old Bruddah Peas too. No idea where he has gone, Just vanished. I wish he would show up again with his links to President Obama’s weekly address. That was nice to look forward to.
Sistah no one’s puppet, not exactly a bubble of illusions here. Of course there will still be troops in Iraq, just as there are all over the world. A signing ceremony is nothing more than that – a ceremony. The nasty bitterness continues…..
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 14, 2010
at 9:43 PM
Jean, I hate to burst your bubble, but not all of troops are leaving Iraq, some will remain, for how long, I don’t know. And I don’t think we can ever officially say the war is over, because there is no one to sign an armistice.
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By: no one's puppet on August 14, 2010
at 9:17 PM
Good work, poolman, finding the links for Jean.
I must admit that I have missed a lot of the action here on the porch for the last several months.
I see that Juneau Joe should be getting settled into Juneau right about now to begin teaching there again this fall. It will be great to hear his new adventures living in the Great North.
I wonder what happened to Whirled Peas? The last entry from him that I found was in June. Do you have any idea?
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By: elsie09 on August 14, 2010
at 9:16 PM
I don’t know why I found only a short “preview” on the “War of the Machines” story, yet the whole article showed up on that link.
In the great scheme of things, it’s not really necessary that I have a full grasp of the InterTubes; I’ll accept that maybe Jean got what she wanted, and be satisfied with that.
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By: elsie09 on August 14, 2010
at 8:57 PM
Jean, here are Internet links to those articles you mentioned in “Scientific American”.
I think this article, “Terminate the Terminators” is given in its entirety:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=terminate-the-terminators
However, this one, “War of the Machines”, is only partially available as a preview at
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=war-of-the-machines; the rest can be accessed by subscribing to the magazine or buying the issue online.
Or, for most towns, there remains one more rather old-fashioned option, that of going to the public library and finding the published magazine in the archives there!
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By: elsie09 on August 14, 2010
at 8:48 PM
Here are the articles, Auntie Jean:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=terminate-the-terminators
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=war-of-the-machines
Killing is something we do well and it is big business. Jobs. The capitalist’s mantra.
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By: poolman on August 14, 2010
at 8:46 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, poolman and Elsie,
Looks like there is nobody filling up cyberspace here today but me. Oh, well……
I heard on CNN that President Obama is keeping his campaign promise to pull troops out of Iraq and that soon the war there will FINALLY be over. I wish we could say the same about WWII, the Korean ‘Conflict’ and Vietnam. Rhetorical questions. Why do we still have some 737 military bases in 30 countries with more than a half million troops stationed all over the world? Why are we the self-appointed ‘Super Power’ and policeman of the world? Many of those military bases are huge, larger than some of the towns of the countries in which they are located.
The bases are quite permanent with fixed buildings, all the comforts of home and plenty of amenities for the troops that their host countries do not have. I’m not suggesting that the troops should be living in tents. Not at all!!! But for instance in Wiesbaden, Germany, there is not an awful lot of shootin’ war going on there. Are golf courses, Pizza Hut and McDonalds really appropriate images to project of our American military? Often the bases and troops are deeply resented by the local people. Don’t we have enough problems right here within our own country needing the resources and attention that this military might is hogging?
Secretary Gates announced that the DOD is eliminating a command and cutting a large amount of money from its budget. Well, that’s a start in the right direction. But there’s a catch.
I’ve been reading again. Uh-oh! This is preliminary and I intend to research other sources for more information though. Military Robotics, otherwise known as remote warfare, drones and such are changing the enduring traditions of waging war for the past 5,000 years and the U.S. is leading the way – but not in a very humane direction.
Up until 2003 in Kuwait the military considered robotics to be unbecoming of the warrior culture. The general public however has rightly become appalled at the number of American casualties on the battlefield, while the civilian casualties of the ‘enemy’ are played down. They are ALL HUMAN BEINGS, folks!
More and more now, soldiers go ‘to war’ from a base in the U.S., sit in front of a computer all day and ‘do battle’ with the ‘enemy’ 10,000 miles away. Then they get in their cars, and drive home. As one Air Force officer put it: “Within 20 minutes they are sitting at the dinner table talking to their kids.” Just another day at the office. ‘The most dangerous part of their day is not on the battlefield but the commute home!’
Even more chilling is how easy it is getting to be to recruit teenagers who are already adroit at playing computer games. “Wow! This is fun!!!!” They get to play computer games all day and get paid for it! What they don’t seem to realize is that they are raining death and destruction down on LIVING PEOPLE. And don’t try to sell ME on ‘precision targeting’. C’mon. I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck. There are always such things as ‘human errors’ and/or ‘mechanical errors’. (Do BP and the Gulf Oil Spill ring any bells?)
Bruddah poolman or Sistah Elsie, for openers, could you please track down these articles for me and put up links? It is “The Scientific American Magazine”, July 2010 issue. On page 30 is a short article entitled “Terminate the Terminators” and on page 56, “War of the Machines”. The latter is a more detailed article with numbers and descriptions that to me are cold-blooded to the point of being diabolical. I have just never understood why we have to devise newer and more efficient ways to kill people in order to make a point of some kind.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 14, 2010
at 6:04 PM
Hi friends, just checking in, worrying over our fine ladies. Hope everything is ok, hugs and good vibes to all!
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By: trishSWFL on August 13, 2010
at 7:13 PM
Alaskapi:
Please accept my belated condolences on the death of your cousin Terry. I have been reading accounts of interviews with him and, in aviation, a career field that has a host of interesting personalities, he was truly exceptional. The high profile nature of the accident will lead to an exhaustive search for the cause but in the end, unless there is some explicit information furnished by survivors or compelling evidence of a catastrophic mechanical failure, the Feds will publicly ascribe the accident to Pilot Error. I’m sure that coming from a heavily aviation centered family like yours, that will cause much anguish but will not be a complete surprise.
For many years aviation was a continuing side interest of mine and, as a result, I’ve read enough aircraft accident reports to understand that there is never a single cause. More often it can be a chain of unrelated small incidents that accumulate in a way that can overwhelm even the most meticulous aviator. After all, in a car when things get out of control the driver can park on the side of the road until things get sorted out. Aviators do not have that luxury and sometimes have to rely entirely on their wits and past experiences to help them although, in some cases, that may not be enough.
The irony, of course, is that Terry was the quintessential aviation safety expert and as such had a totally positive though immeasurable impact on Alaskan aviation. Once again, please accept my sincere condolences.
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By: jsri on August 13, 2010
at 2:02 PM
alaskapi, my sincere condolences on the death of your cousin. Keeping you in my thoughts & prayers.
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By: Greytdog on August 13, 2010
at 12:48 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
As we wait for Margaret and Helen to return…….
Here’s my little story about our CA family’s visit. OK, I’ll fess up. I am a mighty proud Old Grandma. Among the many other things we did together except send them off to the beach, sightseeing and eat, was talk about everything we were all interested in.
This is a two-fold story, starting in 1948 up to 2010. Back in the pre-historic times when I was a freshman in college, I was a Music Major. The final exam in my Theory and Harmony class was to write an original composition of our choosing. I went to the library and found a poem I liked and set it to music for a lyric soprano with piano accompaniment. It’s a love song. The poem, “Es Stehen Unbeweglich” was written by the well-known German poet, Justinius Kerner. (Google him.) These are the English translation lyrics:
“For many thousand ages, the steadfast stars above,
Have gazed upon each other, with ever-mournful love.
They speak a certain language, so beautiful, so grand,
Which none of the philologians could ever, understand.
But I have learned it, learned it; forever by the grace,
Of studying from one grammar, my heart’s own darling’s face.”
Naturally, at that age and with other exams to study for, I left it to the last minute. The school was a small womens’ college, with an exceedingly high academic standard and a superb music department. It was also very strict. We had lights out at 10:00PM and ‘Bed Check’, TWICE, by the dorm counselor with a flashlight looking in to see if each of us was tucked in, sound asleep. Our virginity was in jeopardy you know. (Yeah. Like any of us on the third floor suites were gonna tie sheets together and shimmy out a third floor window?) All of us caught on quickly that we could wait until after the second ‘Bed Check’, get up, sit cross-legged on the floor of the closet with a flashlight and do our studying. Shut up in the closet, I scribbled down the music for the exam. The next day I carefully and neatly copied it, by hand of course, and handed it in just under the wire.
To my surprise, the college wanted a copy of it for its archives. In the rush of other exams and to pack to go home, I didn’t get around to copying it. No copy machines in those pre-historic days. I sort of tucked it into my memorabilia box and forgot about it over the years. I have only heard it sung once by a lyric soprano friend a very long time ago. I can play the accompaniment on the piano, but the range is much too high for my voice.
Anyway, one thing led to another when our CA family was here and I dug it out. Our grandson is 6’2” and has a fine deep and rich baritone even though he is only 15-going-on-16 years old. I transposed it into his fach and he learned it. It was lovely talking and making music together.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 12, 2010
at 8:33 PM
I am missing Margaret and Helen too and am hoping all is well. Family, please let us know!
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By: Shash on August 12, 2010
at 8:01 PM
Does anyone know what happened to Margaret and Helen???
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By: The Questioning One on August 12, 2010
at 11:39 AM
On the same day of the crash, four bikers were on their way home from the motorcycle rally in Sturgis, SD. The oldest was 62, the same age as the pilot.
A young man miscalculated, lost control of his car, and plowed into the bikers on the interstate near our house.
One friend said one small bit of comfort was at least the four men died doing something they loved. I guess that applies to victims of the air plane crash too.
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By: James on August 12, 2010
at 6:36 AM
Alaskapi, I’m so sorry to hear of your loss. Please accept my sincere condolences to you and your family.
My brother was a pilot who fought fires; it was a very dangerous job on any given day. But it was his passion to fly, it made him happy to be doing an important job, and that’s all that matters.
Please know in your heart that your cousin’s skill and experience is the reason there were survivors, and take comfort in knowing how well loved and respected he was.
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By: avotresante on August 12, 2010
at 5:49 AM
Alaskapi, My condolences to Mr. Smith’s family as well as all the relatives and firends. Best wishes to all the families touched by this awful trajedy.
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By: sunshine on August 11, 2010
at 4:24 PM
Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson said on KFAB this morning that Ted Stevens was the first senator to be nice to him when he first took on his job. He said though they belonged to different parties, they often worked together.
The two were friends and Nelson often went to Alaska to go fishing with Stevens and his son.
The denverpost.com has a story about the crash.
My condolences too.
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By: James on August 11, 2010
at 12:50 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and alaskapi,
Sistah alaskapi, I left you a brief note of condolence in the kitchen right after I heard about the death of your cousin in the plane crash. He must have been a fine and brave man who will be sorely missed by not only his loved ones, but by the people of Alaska.
I hope you will take courage and comfort from knowing that.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 11, 2010
at 12:48 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Elsie on August 11, 2010 at 7:38AM,
Thank you Sistah Elsie for bringing up the Donna Brazile link for me. I really admire those of you who can navigate your way around the internet so well.
We had the BEST time with our CA family. But all great things must come to an end. I have a poignant story to share with all of you later. Today we are off to the Big Cities, getting back into our regular routine. Dental appintment, etc. Sigh.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 11, 2010
at 12:37 PM
I think maybe alaskapi is at work right now, and when I sat back down here, and saw your comments, pfessor, I thought I’d jump in for the moment.
From what I’ve learned about this pilot, who was alaskapi’s cousin, flying was not only his career, but his avocation, as well.
Did you see what was written about him?
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/dispatches/news/6322-pilot-reported-dead-in-gci-plane-crashhttp://www.alaskadispatch.com/dispatches/news/6322-pilot-reported-dead-in-gci-plane-crash
(snips)
Smith had a long career in Alaska aviation, including a post as Alaska Airline’s chief pilot in the state.
“He was extremely revered,” said Jim Bridwell, a colleague and close friend of Smith’s. “He was well-liked; a pilot’s pilot.”
Alaska Airlines spokeswoman Bobbie Egan sent the following statement on behalf of the company, which employed Smith for nearly three decades:
“Terry Smith had many close friends and colleagues at Alaska Airlines who will miss him dearly, and we extend our heartfelt sympathies to Terry’s family and loved ones. Captain Terry Smith retired from Alaska Airlines in 2007 after a 28-year career during which he served as chief pilot of our Anchorage base. Smith also flew as captain on two historic flights across the Bering Sea in the late 1980s that laid the groundwork for Alaska Airlines to offer the first U.S.-scheduled service to the Russian Far East in 1991. The Boeing 737-200 used on those flights bears Smith’s name and is now on exhibit at the Alaska Aviation Museum in Anchorage.
Rogoff described Smith as the “most skillful aviator imaginable.”
“The fact there were four survivors is testament to his skills,” she added. “He would have maneuvered that plane like no other mere pilot to save lives.”
Rogoff said Smith was “totally cautious” when it came to flying in inclement weather.
“There was no weather he hadn’t experienced, so (he) would not have been flummoxed by it,” she said. Smith was flying the GCI plane this week “just as a friend,” Rogoff said; Smith’s wife, Terri, thought the trip would be a “healthy diversion” after the death of the Smiths’ son-in-law.
…Smith’s death is especially devastating because Smith’s son-in-law, Aaron Malone, was killed less than two weeks ago in a C-17 crash at Elmendorf Air Force Base. According to his obituary, Malone met Melanie Smith, Terry Smith’s daughter, while taking classes at the University of Alaska Anchorage. The July 28 crash killed three other airmen.
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By: Elsie on August 11, 2010
at 12:24 PM
pfesser-
We wouldn’t be a state without flight. We have almost no roads and the Alaska Railway ( which one of my granpas helped build- he was a powder monkey and blacksmith ) only runs a relatively short way. Water and air tie us together across most of the state.
So- the why-do-they-fly question folks ask is silly. it’s a necessity here.
That being said, aviation safety is an ever present concern and issue.
My cousin’s father was a legend here for training Fish and Wildlife pilots to fly without mishap… And a bush pilot of some reknown himself.
He and my cousin were interviewed a number of times- this is one of my favorites.
http://www.fws.gov/digitalmedia/cgi-bin/showfile.exe?CISOROOT=/natdiglib&CISOPTR=9393&filename=9394.pdf#search=%22Beavers%22
I’m not sure about your last question. Until we know more about the causes of the accident I cannot say any of the family feels comfortable saying he died doing what he loved…
If for one instant he knew someone else was likely to die because of his flying it would have broken his heart… so much of his life was spent making sure people got places safely.
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By: alaskapi on August 11, 2010
at 12:21 PM
Alaskapi –
Sorry, man – really bad deal. Sympathy for your family.
Back in WV, we always get “Why do they work in the mines if they’re so dangerous?” and things of that sort, or “They are so brave going underground to supply us with electricity.”
It’s none of that. It’s a job, one of the few available back there, and there is risk with it. Nobody feels special; mining is just what they do so they can make a living for their families. Nobody feels any different from anybody living anywhere else.
I also hear things like, “Well, if flying in Alaska is so dangerous, why do they do it?”
It would seem to me it’s just like mining coal. Yep, it can be risky, but so can driving cab in NYC. They do it because that is how you get around up there. It’s how you make a living. You get very good at it, but like good coal miners, sometimes you get killed, too. That’s just how it is, so you can provide for yourself and your family. And if you have to go, (usually) it ain’t a bad way to go, either.
Thoughts?
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By: pfesser on August 11, 2010
at 11:05 AM
pfesser-
The pilot was my cousin.
The plane was converted to turbine.
We are waiting to hear if he made a mistake or if, as he had done so many other times, managed to bring it down survivably.
This is a hard time.
His son in law was killed in the C17 crash 2 weeks ago.
I come from a huge family- we are going to be ok but it is awful right now.
Ted Stevens made me so mad sometimes I could scream but he did more for rural Alaska than anyone I can think of as well as Alaskan avaition. Goodbye Mr Chairman and thank you…
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By: alaskapi on August 11, 2010
at 9:30 AM
Title: Jon Stewart Calls Out Those Blindly Opposed to Ground Zero Mosque
Link: http://tv.gawker.com/5609824/jon-stewart-calls-out-those-blindly-opposed-to-ground-zero-mosque
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By: no one's puppet on August 11, 2010
at 9:26 AM
I noticed Senator Stevens’ airplane was listed as a DeHavilland Otter, with a /T designation. I wonder if it had the turbine conversion. The P/W PT-6 they put on these airplanes changes them into different beasts. The old 600 horsepower radial was too weak; the 1000 HP radial really decent, but the turbine made a remarkable airplane a real champ. I wonder what happened. The usual up there is scud-running. Since very few of the airports are lighted, there is no way to put in a decent instrument approach and folks just try to avoid weather and stay in contact with the ground. They say the risk there is worth the beauty. I hope to see for myself someday…
Alaskapi, got any info on that?
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By: pfesser on August 11, 2010
at 9:04 AM
Lori, your words will have personal meaning for at least a couple of Helen’s readers here. I know they are mourning the loss of their incredible cousin, Terry Smith, the pilot of the Stevens’ plane. My condolences to them this sad day.
You might be interested in reading about Terry’s accomplishments and his life at http://www.alaskadispatch.com/dispatches/news/6322-pilot-reported-dead-in-gci-plane-crashhttp://www.alaskadispatch.com/dispatches/news/6322-pilot-reported-dead-in-gci-plane-crash
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By: Elsie on August 11, 2010
at 8:54 AM
Thanks Poolman. I signed the petition.
no one’s puppet, maybe I should be listening to Glenn Beck more often. He is entertaining, but if I believed everything he said, I’d have a bomb shelter filled with gold and a year’s supply of food. He also doesn’t represent the Republican party. If he did, I think I would move to Brandon, Manitoba.
The left does use the race card. I cited examples earlier. Politico, I think quoted Mary Francis Berry, University of Pennsylvania professor of American social thought and history, who said the Tea Party was no more or less racist than any other comparable group, but it was good Democratic strategy to accuse them of racism because it put them on the defensive and forced them to use energy defending themselves.
A blogger has a $100,000 reward for anyone with audio or video of a bonafied Tea Party member uttering the N word etc. So far, no one has claimed the reward. The Drudge Report linked to a couple of stories of leftists advocating planting false racists in the Tea Party demonstrations.
Pfessor, thanks for the link. It looks like a good site. One thing about the rear flank down draft is it can sometimes act like a cold front and create a line of smaller thunderstorms extending from the main cell.
Sometimes, heavy rain and hail will hide the tornado lurking behind. If you’ve just had a hail storm and it becomes quiet, don’t assume you are in the clear. The rain is part of the down draft, and the tornado is located in a usually rain free updraft. Storm chasers at a Lincoln, Nebraska weather seminar showed tape of low visibility and hail when a dark shadow appeared to their right. They stepped on the gas and narrowly escaped a tornado. Debris hit their car as it was.
I reported a tornado, near our home, and the weather service people told me to take cover immediately. I guessed it would fade because rain was beginning to fall around it, so I went back out. I was right, the funnel was becoming ragged and indistinct. . Then, I was suddenly wrong.
I heard a noise and looked into a new funnel overhead. A light west wind shifted to strong east and then north for about thirty seconds before it became light westerly again. I ran as fast as I could, cursing my foolishness, but I did get to see what most people don’t–the inside of a tornado.
Weatherwise Magazine mentioned the first nameless person to report rotation from the Little Sioux Scout Ranch tornado which killed four boy scouts and injured many more in June, 2008. I was that nameless person because an Omaha meteorologist said on his warning statement, “Radar shows the area of rotation is headed straight toward weather watcher Jim—– farm.” That prompted me to drive a half mile west to see what was going on.
At the weather seminar, I cited him as a weather caster who’s work has saved lives. That storm was especially dangerous because it was wrapped in rain. It caused $8,000 in damage to our farm, and we had no electricity for almost thirty hours.
Yes, things change fast. Thanks to my experiences in the Air Force, I will never fly in a private plane again.
I wish more people were interested in the weather. It is more fun than politics.
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By: James on August 11, 2010
at 8:47 AM
I echo our President’s sentiments.
A decorated World War II veteran, Senator Ted Stevens devoted his career to serving the people of Alaska and fighting for our men and women in uniform. Michelle and I extend our condolences to the entire Stevens family and to the families of those who perished alongside Senator Stevens in this terrible accident.
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By: lori on August 11, 2010
at 8:34 AM
Jean, I found this link for you:
http://blog.cagle.com/author/donna-brazile/
Sometimes links like that are archived after a while and thus become difficult to access later. Registration may be required to view them later. My hope is that this link will continue to be available to you as often and as much as you want it to be.
It’s hard to say good-bye to loved ones, isn’t it? The saving grace for all that, though, is remembering the wonderful visit with them, the blessing of sharing your home, and your state, reveling in the joyous, happy moments you had, and hopefully reviewing, at your leisure, plenty of photos of the happy times with them.
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By: Elsie on August 11, 2010
at 7:38 AM
This just in –
Muslims to build giant clock in Mecca and want the rest of the world to synch to it. (Hmmm….that should really make the world’s GPS units work better…)
http://dailycaller.com/2010/08/11/giant-mecca-clock-seeks-to-call-time-on-greenwich/
I can see it now – a sign on every road into town:
WELCOME TO MECCA – PLEASE SET YOUR WATCH BACK 500 YEARS
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 11, 2010
at 5:58 AM
James –
As a flyer I am of course very interested in your passion – weather. Many times one can blunder into significant weather not seen by onboard radar or ATC radar, since each only sees precip.
Here is a NOAA site I like pretty well.
http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/primer/tornado/tor_detecting.html
I find thunderstorms fascinating, but a lot more complex than I thought. I’ve been studying the site quite a bit. What are your thoughts? You think it’s decent?
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 11, 2010
at 5:39 AM
sorry – forgot my sig line:
no mas, te
(that’s Spanish)
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By: PFesser on August 11, 2010
at 3:57 AM
no one’s pup –
” You are shouting in the wind, why shouldn’t someone build a gay bar next door, on both sides, across the street, or five blocks in any direction from the proposed mosque?”
Precisely.
“Or you could build one or many anywhere else, its a free country!”
Once true, now debatable. Between GWB’s fascism and Obama’s socialism, it could be argued that there isn’t much freedom left, I’m afraid.
“Geez you are just being dense now.”
Perhaps it is not I who am being dense. If you are going to slap and run, at least take the time to read and respond appropriately. Having to explain sarcasm and irony is embarrassing for everyone, but what the hell. I’ll take it real slow and make it easy for you.
I_think_the_gay_bar_ is_a_good_idea. Got it? I can’t make it any simpler. I find bigotry most objectionable, whether in public or in a simple forum such as this one, and the idea of surrounding the monument to murder with gay bars has a certain symmetry to it.
Do I need to explain the concept of rhetorical symmetry, too? If so, just let me know. No charge.
Jim
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By: PFesser on August 11, 2010
at 3:53 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, Poolman or anybody,
In this morning’s local paper, there was a really fine article by Donna Brazile entitled, “Lessons From the Oil Spill”. I have always liked her. I think she is a clear thinker who stays right on top of current events. Bruddah Poolman, do you suppose you or someone more computer-savvy than I could track it down for me and put up a link to it?
Our CA family has gone home. Thud! We miss them terribly, already. We love them so. I kept a stiff upper lip through their whole departure procedure, but if you will please excuse me now, I think I’ll go weep for a while…….
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 10, 2010
at 9:40 PM
You are shouting in the wind, why shouldn’t someone build a gay bar next door, on both sides, across the street, or five blocks in any direction from the proposed mosque? Or you could build one or many anywhere else, its a free country! Geez you are just being dense now.
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By: no one's puppet on August 10, 2010
at 9:29 PM
HRH Sofia –
Actually, there is a certain, um, symmetry in the gay bar idea. Brilliant, actually. The folks who want the mosque feel that it is important for tolerance and good will to prevail; that we should not become intolerant or impatient just because radical muslims slaughtered 3000 innocent Americans; no, that would make us as bad as the terrorists, wouldn’t it? And after all, the Constitution guarantees certain rights – even to people we don’t like. That’s its beauty.
I couldn’t agree more. I don’t think we should allow intolerance or bigotry to keep us from building a gay bar – or many gay bars – surrounding the proposed mosque. After all, they shouldn’t become intolerant or impatient that these fellas are taking it up the rectum nightly; they should love and respect them as allah would wish. And we should help the imams and their sheep – er, flock – in their journey of enlightenment by surrounding them with manly – and I mean MANLY – love, so they too can learn tolerance and beauty.
Great plan! I’m in! Where’s my checkbook?
Jim
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By: PFesser on August 10, 2010
at 7:35 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and no one’s puppet on August 10, 2010 at 12:09PM,
You know me, Sistah no one’s puppet. I don’t like to strope or cast aspersions on anyone by naming names. But I can’t help but wonder if that big ole hunk of a self-styled he-man, at his chronological age isn’t going through his refills of Viagra faster than he can find new doctors to writing him more script. It’s a common enough occurance with his type.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 10, 2010
at 7:17 PM
Actually, there’s probably already a gay bar there. I remember I went to a birthday party down near there, held at a restaurant/club where all the wait people were transvestites. The City attracts a wide variety of people with many different interests. That’s the part I love about it. DIVERSITY!
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By: HRH sofia EQ on August 10, 2010
at 3:31 PM
I wonder if he’s taking donations?
I’m in!
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By: pfesser on August 10, 2010
at 12:46 PM
It’s a free country, so what!
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By: no one's puppet on August 10, 2010
at 12:04 PM
This just in –
Plans to build a gay bar adjacent to NYC’s ground zero mosque.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/10/greg-gutfeld-im-opening-g_n_676699.html
“in the spirit of outreach” and in an “effort to break down barriers”
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 10, 2010
at 11:42 AM
Seems you had more sense when you were younger, forgot your roots too, just a frat boy want-to-be.
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By: no one's puppet on August 10, 2010
at 9:19 AM
no one’s puppet –
frat boy. LOL.
I was too poor to be a frat boy; besides, the war was on and the frats on campus represented “the Establishment” to us. We loathed them.
Not exactly a freak, though – the drugs other than pot scared hell out of me – I guess more a lost kid from up_the_holler, with $5/week to spend, a VW bug that stayed broken down most of the time, and a vague feeling that he wanted to be a “mining engineer” because the people in my mining town where I grew up felt that was as high as a local boy could go. I spent the summer days working in the mines; evenings and weekends riding my dirt bike through the mountains, trying to have as much sex as possible with the local girls, who thought a “college man” was Something Else. LOL. Such a sad, narrow life back there…
It’s interesting to look back on those days. frat boy? not really. Just a good kid, trying to find his way…
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 10, 2010
at 5:36 AM
Connecticut, Colorado, Georgia and Minnesota go to the polls today! If you live in those states please don’t forget to vote!
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By: lori on August 10, 2010
at 5:01 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Greytdog,
Have a wonderful, wonderful time in Germany!!! I envy you. So many great plaes to go and things to see. Be sure to tell us all about it when you get back.
BTW, where is Captiva, BFD?
Bon Voyage!!!!!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 9, 2010
at 5:03 PM
Frat boy!
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By: no one's puppet on August 9, 2010
at 3:52 PM
Depends upon whether the victim is willing or it’s really force.
In my house, it’s called bondage and discipline, but I don’t think they were playing that game. More like bondage, bong-age and —— now what was I talking about? Oh, wow…I’m starving, man…Want some Breyer’s vanilla and M&M’s?
Now where were we? Oh yeah, if you don’t stop, I’m goin’ to call the law.
Laaaaaaawwwwww……..
You goin’ to eat that piece of pizza, man? Yeah, I’ll take it…got any beer?
Now where was I?
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By: pfesser on August 9, 2010
at 3:18 PM
Excuse me pfesser, would that be false imprisonment or kidnapping?
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By: no one's puppet on August 9, 2010
at 3:00 PM
Sorry – got too excited there.
Rand, not Ron
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By: pfesser on August 9, 2010
at 2:16 PM
This just in: Ron Paul, when in college, got stoned and along with his buddy, blindfolded and kidnapped a coed, took her to his apartment and MADE HER TAKE BONG HITS!
http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-q/2010/08/gq-exclusive-rand-pauls-crazy-college-days-hint-theres-a-secret-society-involved.html
I knew I was going to vote for that sonofabitch…now I’m going to have to contribute to his campaign, too…
How come I never had that much fun in college? Dammit!
Jim
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By: pfesser on August 9, 2010
at 2:15 PM
What’s with this latest rant from G. Beck comparing the Obama Administration to The Planet of Apes, is he running for Grand Wizard? You are so wrong James, the left isn’t playing the race card, wake up and smell the coffee.
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By: no one's puppet on August 9, 2010
at 1:36 PM
James, try this link to Al Franken. He has a petition also: http://www.alfranken.com/index.php/splash/netneutrality
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By: poolman on August 9, 2010
at 12:51 PM
I tried to get the link to colorofchange.org and left the computer to do other work while waiting. Three hours later, our computer still will not link. If I can’t sign that petition now, I will do some research and make some phone calls etc. It looks like a bad deal.
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By: James on August 9, 2010
at 12:28 PM
OK – you caught it. Good
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By: pfesser on August 9, 2010
at 9:52 AM
ty Jim, I appreciate the heads up.
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By: lori on August 9, 2010
at 9:47 AM
That’s all right Greytdog. I wonder what is going on too.
Yes, the right can also be crude , but the left is using race more often. By some strategists’ own admission, they are concentrating on the Tea Partys because they represent a threat. Maybe it is not as bad as I feel. I just have a strong reaction to race baiting.
To be fair, some rightists’ obscesion with Obama’s birth certificate, and his numerous golf games is also silly. The Gulf oil spill was not Obama’s finest time. He dithered at first, but some people are unfairly blaming him for too much. I can’t think of anything specific, but I remember hearing some talk show hosts criticize Obama unfairly. One thing I hate is when Rush says Obama wants the economy to fail. That is an awful thing to say. I think Obama is constrained by his leftist economic theories which aren’t working, and he is doing his best.
Obama is not a centrist. He, as Lori told Jean, he ran as more conservative than Clinton and Edwards, but he was lying.
Look at his and the Democratic record. They do not have a centrist agenda. Please review the conversation Rae and I had about it.
You and I probably have different definitions of Liberal, Conservative, and Centrist. We would need to define our terms and agree on them before we could really discuss them.
I am left of Obama in one respect. I support gay marriage.
I agree the golden age of American exceptionalism, is over, but we are not yet just an ordinary country. We may become one, but not yet.
A mutation near the Black See created blue eyes 8 to 10 thousand years ago. Global warming melted enough ice water from the Mediteranian created the Black Sea. People fled in all directions and took flood myths with them. The mass migration may have helped seed the world with blue eyes. If you have blue eyes, we are distant cousins.
We have storm damage to clean up. I saw and reported a wall cloud last night.
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By: James on August 9, 2010
at 8:42 AM
Lori –
Email me immediately at pfesser53@gmail.com. This is not a joke.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 9, 2010
at 8:31 AM
HRH I received this e-mail this morning thought you and others might be interested.
If you value the free, fair, and open Internet, then you need to act now, before two corporate giants deal it away.
Last Thursday, several news outlets reported that Google and Verizon are about to cut a deal that would allow giant corporations to control which websites load slowly, quickly, or not at all.1,2,3 Google used to oppose this kind of corporate control over the Internet, but now it looks like they might be changing their tune. Google’s motto is “Don’t be evil,” but it looks like their pursuit of profit might be getting in the way of living up to that ideal.4
Thankfully, it’s not a done deal yet — and with enough pressure, we can stop them from acting. That’s why we’re joining our friends at CREDO, MoveOn, and Free Press to demand that Google back off this corporate takeover of the Internet. Will you add your voice, and then ask your friends and family to do the same?
http://www.colorofchange.org/google/?id=1965-972540
The basic promise of the Internet lies in the guarantee that information you put online is treated the same as anyone else’s information in terms of its basic ability to travel across the Internet. Your own personal website or blog can compete on equal footing with the biggest companies. It’s the reason the Internet is so diverse — and so powerful. Anyone with a good idea can find their audience online, whether or not there’s money to promote the idea or money to be made from it.
This is critical for Black communities and others that have had our voices compromised by corporate-controlled media. For the first time in history we can communicate with a broad audience, educate, politically organize, and create new businesses — without prohibitive costs or mediation by gatekeepers in government or industry. It’s the strength of your ideas, not the size of your budget, that largely determines your success. In television, radio, and print this can’t happen because access is determined by big media corporations seeking to turn a profit.
This deal could take the Internet in a different direction. It could end the Internet’s level playing field by allowing rich corporations like Google to pay for faster-loading websites and services. It could destroy the potential for independent voices to compete with giant corporations for an audience — big corporations who can pay for preferential access to Internet users would drown out the smaller voices online. And it could mean that you’ll start getting less Internet service at a higher cost.
We expect the big telecommunications companies to try to stifle freedom and equality on the Internet — they’ve hired an army of lobbyists to do just that. But Google has always said it supports a free and open Internet. Google likes to portray itself as a corporation with principles that go beyond profit, and it would be disappointing to see Google abandon them.
Google has tried to downplay this story. They issued a short, carefully worded statement that says they’re still committed to an open Internet, but they haven’t denied that they are in talks with Verizon to cut a deal that would give corporations more control over Internet traffic.5
By speaking out, you can pressure Google to walk away from this deal. But time is running out — please sign our petition to Google today.
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By: lori on August 9, 2010
at 8:22 AM
HRH sofia
I don’t have much information on the net neutrality issue, but I have to say I really enjoy the idea that my traffic gets the same treatment as some big guy’s. Kind of like the post office.
That flies a little in the face of pure capitalism, but I have never been a fan of completely unregulated industry. The Internet, after all, was government-invented and maintained for a long time, and still so to a great extent.
So I have to plead about 20 percent net neutrality and a 80 percent ignorance.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 9, 2010
at 7:45 AM
so what do you all think about the “net neutrality” issue then? Do you think Verizon and those other companies should be allowed to align themselves in agreements which allow them to send you advertising and other chosen content more quickly than you can send the information that truly matters to YOU?
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By: HRH sofia EQ on August 9, 2010
at 7:18 AM
Jean –
I just finished (for the third time?) a Learning Company tape set on classical mythology, and one of the last things I studied was King Minos and the Minotaur. Very cool.
I hope to get to Greece one day; ’tis not to be right now; too many irons in the fire. My wife has been wanting me to look into moving to Italy and reading X-rays over the wire; she has a small publishing business that she could easily run from overseas also. The Internet has been a real godsend; some “futurist” several years ago predicted it would eventually be judged second in importance only to the printed word. I was sceptical, but now I think maybe he was right. god what a great time to be alive!
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 9, 2010
at 6:24 AM
Auntie Jean, that goes along with a lot of the stuff I have been reading. Also the earthquake and volcano activity has been thought due to the passing of the tenth planet aka Nibiru close to the earth every 3600 years. That also coincides with the history of a great flood. I have found this site regarding Earth history interesting. The author started from a strict Calvinist upbringing and rejected the ideology and has since sought truth from all sources. There is a lot of information here and the site is fairly easy to navigate, although I found some misspellings – one of my pet peeves when I seek accurate data from any “source.”
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By: poolman on August 8, 2010
at 10:30 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I am fascinated by the history of Crete (Kriti), especially since our visit there in the fall of 2206. The island is in the Southern Mediterranean. The renowned artist ‘El Greco’ was born on Crete.
The Mediterranean has been rife with earthquakes and volcanic eruptions since time immemorial. (Etna, et al.) On the tiny island of Thera, about ninety miles north of Crete, there was one of the most horrendous eruptions of any recorded volcano, the Santorini Volcano in approximately 1459 BC. There is a fascinating scientific THEORY floating around regarding this natural phenomenon. The effects of the eruption of such gargantuan proportions would have been widespread throughout the Mediterranean and beyond. Also, earthquakes often accompany volcanic activity, causing gigantic tsunamis.
There was a more recent eruption of a volcano in Africa. It caused a large distant lake to turn red because of underground activity prior to the eruption that released vast amounts of iron into the water. The iron oxidized, making the lake appear blood red. Of course, deprived of oxygen, the marine life died, polluting the lake with bacteria. But the frogs, being amphibians, jumped out. Naturally, the cattle drank the contaminated lake water, sickened from various diseases and many died. Lots of dead marine life washed ashore and bovine life lying around attracted scavengers, flies and “siniphs”, small biting insects similar to gnats. These insects attacked the remaining cattle and infected them first with the diseases. Next they began to attack humans, causing boils and “blains”, (large inflammatory swelling and sore blisters.) Many of the sickened animals were unwittingly eaten by humans. You guessed it. The humans sickened and some, but not all died.
A spectacular eruption of the size of Santorini would certainly have disrupted prevailing weather patterns, probably causing storms of thunder and lightning and possibly hail. Also concurrent could have been the fall out from the eruption of fire and ash from the volcano to darken the skies for extended periods of time. (Similar to descriptions of the well-known ‘Nuclear Winter’.
The Santorini Eruption wreaked havoc with the Minoan Civilization, which, on Crete, was geographically not too far from Egypt. The Minoan and Egyptian Civilizations were contemporaries.
See where I am going with this? The sequence of events coincides with the Plagues visited on the Egyptians at the time Moses was trying to get the Pharaoh to free the Jewish people from slavery. The Bible, (The Book of Exodus) is singularly lacking in dates and details!!! You can find the biblical accounts of these events in the Book of Exodus, Chapters 7-14 in both the Douay and the St. James Versions. Nevertheless, there is a continuous record of the Jewish people in the Old Testament. The same cannot be said of untold other peoples who were either assimilated into other cultures, became extinct through natural disasters of one kind or another, or simply became extinct through unknown reasons or were exterminated by man. Examples you can Google are: the Hepthalites of Central Asia into Southeastern Europe as well as any number of North and South American Native American tribes. Nothing was ever heard of them again.
The sequence of Biblical Plagues are as follows:
1. Moses asked God to turn the Nile River to Blood. (Iron oxidation?)
2. Second Plague, frogs.
3. Third Plague, ”Sciniphs”.
4. Fourth Plague, Flies.
5. Fifth Plague, ‘Murrien’ among the Cattle. (Murien Typhus?)
6. Boils in Man and Beast.
7. Lightening and Thunder. (Disruption in weather patterns from Santorini?)
8. Locusts.
9. Darkness, (Fallout from Santorini?)
10. Threat and death of first-born children. (Infection from “Sciniphs”, flies, or eating diseased cattle?)
That was the beginning of the Feast of the Passover followed by the departure of the Israelites from Egypt.
Moses asked God to part the Red Sea so the Israelites could cross. (Typically, a tsunami draws the water OUT before it comes rushing back in. We get tsunamis from as far away as Japan and Southeast Asia, Alaska and South America.) A tsunami from tributaries of the Gulf of Suez into the Red Sea could have pulled the water out long enough for the Israelites to get across and then closed again, drowning the Egyptians.
Of course, this is not to say that God did not cause the Santorini Volcano to erupt in the first place, causing a domino chain of events that certainly worked in Moses favor! Who knows? God does work in strange and mysterious ways. Which version do I personally believe? I am an affirmed Casuist. I simply do not know.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 8, 2010
at 9:54 PM
hey james et al, sorry for the crankiness. I am worried about M&H – I would hope that Matthew would let us know if the ladies or anyone in their families were in poor health, thus necessitating their absence from what is essentially a non-essential aspect of their lives. I miss M&H’s posts – but I would rather NOT have their blog at all if it meant the ladies & their loved ones were okay. To me, that’s a rich pay off.
I do have to laugh about James’ comments regarding “crude Democratic attacks” on the TeaNuts. Puhleeze. Calling them out for their racism and bigotry is mild in comparison to their BS regarding liberals, Obama, et al. And the irony – Obama isn’t even a center-left progressive – he’s a centrist pragmatist. But no matter – fear is the motivating force in American politics and the Golden Age of American Exceptionalism passed by a long time ago – we’re just another ordinary country committed to doing and achieving nothing spectacular nor noteworthy.
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By: Greytdog on August 8, 2010
at 9:24 PM
I agree PFessor53. I’ve heard the stories too.
Here is another appropriate story. Michael Gersen of the Washington Post wrote in his article titled “Democrats tactics are helping GOP’s Cause: “… a quarter to a third of Americans identify in one way or another with the Tea Party movement.” As William Galston of the Brookings Institution said, “Americans currently place themselves on the ideological spectrum closer to the Tea Party than they do the Democratic Party.”
Gerson continued “Crude Democratic attacks on the Tea Party offend a broad group of voters. And the political intensity of conservative populists is only increased by elite disdain.”
When people like Vaszlo or Victor write crudely, its not all their fault. It must feel awful watching the walls close in when facts favor the other side.
A big tornadic storm is northwest of us. I’m grabbing my cameras and off to experience the show.
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By: James on August 8, 2010
at 6:01 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Sistah lori and Sistah HRH,
ty lori, for answering my rhetorical question. I will probably be asking you a lot more because I like your political astuteness. It’s a daunting if not impossible task to keep up with what is happening in all 50 states as the political climate heats up. It’s nice to have a reliable source to turn to. You are one of the best! I don’t care much for the authenticity of “People Magazine” or other such sources.
Great idea HRH to go to “The Elephant in the Room” to leave comments! Considering that there are hundreds and hundreds of people who come to “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” every day to read but not necessarily to leave comments, for a while until all these other people get the hang of the shift to “The Elephant” to cut down on downloading time, I think I will put up my comments on both of Helen’s posts. I would like to remind everyone that we are guests here at the pleasure of Margaret and Helen.
This morning on CNN there was a crawl about an earthquake on Crete in the Mediterranean. That was of special interest to me since we have been there and learned quite a bit about its history. I have an intriguing story to tell about it, but it will have to wait till later. Gotta go have lunch with our CA family.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 8, 2010
at 5:24 PM
James –
re: Bush as a nice guy. The folks in uniform loved Bush. He was careful to never travel on a holiday so his military staff could have the day off. He was uniformly described as friendly and respectful of those who worked for him, and especially the military people. They said he always thanked the pilots who flew him, knew their names and the names of their wives and children. Contrast that with stories of the Clintons and how they treated the military people who served them. I’m sure you heard the stories.
Bush’s judgment on a lot of things is another matter. My wife always said that he would make a great neighbor, but made a terrible president – oddly enough, in a way very much like Carter (god, remember the Carter presidency?). I think she’s pretty much on the money.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 8, 2010
at 5:00 PM
VLaszlo, I’m not complaining or whining, I am telling you what some of you are. People like you require lots of repetition–the way you do with children.
Where have you been all this time? You’re not even a blip on the radar. Betcha you feel like a big man now doncha? Or are you a woman? Did it take you all afternoon to look up those big words? Whatever it takes to make you forget your…deficiencies.
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By: James on August 8, 2010
at 4:20 PM
Victor –
It is not your place to decide what is or is not good riddance.
By the way, you left out “accurate.” Deadly accurate – as you all too-well know. Otherwise it wouldn’t bother you at all, would it?
Have to scoot. More stalls to clean out.
K.
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By: PFesser on August 8, 2010
at 3:17 PM
My My,
Just a few complainers?
Just what in the heck.. can you people not debate anymore?
Pull up yer Big Girl panties and scoot to the kitchen?
Amazing. I thought you all had more fortitude than that.
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By: Craig on August 8, 2010
at 2:39 PM
Pfesser Turdblossom
Pompous, obnoxious, mulish, rude, quarrelsome, contemptuous, sexist, egotist. And that’s just for starters. What else did I miss?
Good riddance!!
And whiney James’ disappearance together with his pathetic grievance collecting and lack of social graces would be no great loss either.
VLaszlo
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By: VLaszlo on August 8, 2010
at 2:33 PM
Alaskapi, I moderated a message board and posted on two which moderators closely watched. Mathew’s definition fits my experience, and I accept it.
Maybe I slipped up a time or two, but look at the archives. Others like Kalaspop attacked me first. In a controlled situation, I would have filed a private complaint with the moderators. They would have cautioned the wrong doer, or suspended him/her. If it continued, the rule breaker would be suspended again or banned.
I would have been told not to respond to personal attacks or risk punishment also. When such rules were in place, I followed them.
Here, there are few rules that I can see . It is like the wild west, and it reminds of me of the service when men were trying to kill me. I learned how to fight , and it saved me. So, in the same way, if people flame me, I flame back. I’m not complaining. I’m reminding those with short memories. Besides, words are not like knives or rifles. They can’t hurt you.
My understanding of “troll” is someone who purposely creates discord within a message board. I create a lot of discord, but it is not from malice. I came to exchange views and to practice my debating skills. The record also shows I agree with some of the posts too.
I behaved the same on the Janeane Garafalo message board. It was rough being one of the few non-liberals for a while, but eventually, they made me one of the moderators, and I was an administrator of one version.
As Professor observed, some people who write here are disturbed by people who don’t accept established doctrine. If the administrator wants uniformity, let him ban outliers like me.
Sometimes I hog the spotlight, in part to defend myself (as now to you), and my long posts are due to our dial up system. I sometimes only get one shot at them .
” If you are not for me you are against me…” Is not quite right. Shades of gray. You can be neutral. Only one rule matters to me. I will treat you as you treat me.
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By: James on August 8, 2010
at 11:45 AM
James- it is a probably a stretch to decide that this comment was Matthew of M&H’s family/blog but whether or no, some of the personal attacks you indulge in really do present themselves as flaming…
“Your interpretation of “troll” and who you think fits the bill is not universal.
Many of those who fancy themselves mighty troll smiters here would be banned themselves from moderated discussion groups for flaming (which is different than trolling), baiting (similar to trolling), and generally elevating the impact of the “trolls.”
Flaming is getting personal. Trolling is posting specifically to provoke a response (usually negative).
Blog-hogging and pimping one’s own site are also considered troll traits. No matter WHO does it.”
By: Matt on June 30, 2010
at 11:32 AM”
Would suggest you and all of us think about Helen’s rules:
https://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/what-was-i-thinking-when-i-called-sarah-palin-a-bitch/
“NEW, New Rules:
If you are not for me, you are against me. I’ll get over it. Now kindly return the favor.”
Helen and Margaret- many warm wishes to you and thank you for this place. Missing you …
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By: alaskapi on August 8, 2010
at 10:16 AM
Kalaspop, I am smug because I am usually right. My wife and I live a comfortable life because we made decisions which proved to be the correct ones.
Most of my early predictions on this message board have proven to be true.
You write I am a smug prick. Maybe I am. I earned it. What’s your excuse?
No one’s puppet, I also don’t doubt that Cheney is an ass. His nickname, Darth Vader seemed to fit him.
Lori, from what I have read Rush is a kind and generous man. He sometimes attends Nebraska football games in Lincoln, and people who’ve met him seem to like him.
Bush and Rush are able to connect with people because of their personalities. I’m oversimplifying, but “Frat Boy” W’s rich good old boy persona contrasted with Al Gore’s fakery, and John Kerry’s dour elitism. In my opinion, it helped him win his elections.
Rush made a success for himself through determination and hard work. I think the personality he presents played an important role.
My writing that our auto repair man thought Bush was a nice man was just an observation. I didn’t think any one would react to it. My comment was equivalent to noticing Bush’s eye color. It has nothing to do with politicians’ or talk show hosts’ beliefs which are a separate issue.
Let me know Lori if you want me to write about what I believe are Bush’s and Rush’s ideological and political short comings. It would be a long post and you might be surprised. We agree on some things.
Jean, yes, Obama got his start in Iowa. He also presented himself as more conservative than he is when he spoke to the general public. However, he was charming and said most of the right things. More importantly, Obama had a super campaign organization which outdid the Clintons’.
His campaign, like Howard Dean’s relied heavily on the internet and college students. We heard Obama’s voice on our answering machine many times.
I discovered something when I worked on my MA thesis. Iowa is really economically and climatologicaly two states. The far west is more like Nebraska and though I’d have to look it up to be sure, I think in the West, the majority of Democrats went for Hillary.
I like what you wrote poolman. I “knew” my immanent death was “certain” at ages 24 and 25, and ever since I have not taken for granted I will live to see another season. Waking up each morning is wonderful, and the world is filled with miracles. Peace be with you too.
Greytdog, I agree something may be up about Helen and Margaret. I remember an announcement of bad health one time. In June, the nephew took the trouble to define trolls and flaming. One would think if something bad had happened, he would announce it. You have posted here longer than I. Was it a practice to announce reasons for lapses in postings? Its hard to know if no news is good news or not.
You and I may not care where Michelle Obama travels, but I suspect it will be a minor campaign issue if the economy stays in the tank. Even the networks have taken note of what the trip cost us tax payers. Symbolism.
Have a good time in Germany.
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By: James on August 8, 2010
at 8:01 AM
good idea HRH
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By: lori on August 8, 2010
at 7:41 AM
opps I mean *ultra liberal extreme left… of course.. 😉
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By: lori on August 8, 2010
at 7:36 AM
Auntie Jean,
I’m sure your question was rhetorical but I’ll answer anyway! LOL Yes Obama won the Iowa caucus. Edwards was second. Clinton came in third with more votes than Edwards. It was the first time many came to believe, hey maybe this black guy has a shot!
Ironically, Obama ran right of both those candidates. Obama’s politics are not ultra liberal – extreme right as the carnival barkers would like us to believe. It doesn’t matter how many times they scream it, it doesn’t make it so. Take for example Clinton and Edwards stance on healthcare and gay rights. Obama is now and was then, far more moderate than either of them. (much to the chagrin of many in my party) About the only area that I can think of Obama being less right of those two would be his stance on national defense, and those differences are subtle.
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By: lori on August 8, 2010
at 7:34 AM
Greytdog, Thank you for stating the obvious. I am concerned that the condition of either a spouse of, or one of the ladies themselves is a more important problem right now than this blog is. Although I feel sorry for us, (I really miss hearing what they have to say), I guess I’ll keep checking back in case the situation resolves itself.
I do have a suggestion, though. I just added a comment to the post “The Elephant in the Room is a Kangaroo” from back in February. That post has fewer comments so if everyone (with a couple of exceptions) went to that page, it would take less time to load and my computer wouldn’t seem quite so constipated. The 2,000+ comments here have to be kicked several times before they all show up.
The weather here in the Northeast has finally changed to less humidity, only for this weekend, though. It’s picnic weather, gonna go put one together right now.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on August 8, 2010
at 7:18 AM
Ohhhh rightwingnuttery it never gets old does it?
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By: lori on August 8, 2010
at 6:45 AM
Oh good grief. I could care less if Mrs Obama goes to Spain for vacation or to Camp David. I’ve been working a lot of freelance one-offs lately, and despite our own economic crunch, we still managed to indulge ourselves in wonderful week at our favorite resort on Capitva. BFD. And we plan to head to Germany next month. Yeah spending our hard earned dollars overseas…. oohhh we must be socialists.
As for PFesser or whatever it is, ciao baby!I’m so tired of trying to be civil and polite to wingnuts and batshit crazies like that.
As for the authors of this post, it’s interesting to see how the RWNJs automatically assume they’re not real, and have no concern whatsoever for the fact that both women have life partners who are not in good health. So IMO the silence from the ladies is very worrisome. . . I just hope they and their families are okay.
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By: Greytdog on August 7, 2010
at 11:15 PM
Hello gang! Spectacular sunset tonight! An amazing display by our Heavenly Host. Sometimes when those true colors come shining through it is a beautiful thing. Like with people. Other times – not so much. Learn to love and appreciate both, and life will be much fuller. Afterall, it is short and we can all seize the moment with a positive or a negative influence. It is a choice we still have and are called to make as long as we are interacting with this world. It is all about relationships. Like love, the more you try to hold onto, the less you have in the end. Peace be with you.
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By: poolman on August 7, 2010
at 9:52 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Rae,
Come on back gal! There is plenty of room on both the porch and in the kitchen. We have scrubbed them nice and clean!
I’m bringing Apple Crisp Pie and White Zin. How about you? M&H always provide the tea and occasional sympathy along with some feistiness.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 7, 2010
at 9:15 PM
And Judith, I’d like to be sisters with you, great comments, high five, I think we got mooned as he went out the door. LMAO pfessor53, bye!
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By: no one's puppet on August 7, 2010
at 9:01 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and lori,
lori, you are more politically savvy than I am in many respects. Refresh my memory. Wasn’t it in the Iowa primary that the voters selected Obama and he began to gain national recognition for his intellect and his world view? Not as a ‘warrior’, promoting American Imperialism, but as a man of peace with honor. Heaven knows, he was and is anything but provincial in his thinking!
Fool the voters once, shame on the same-ole-same conservative thinking and the party of “No!” Fool the voters again, shame on the progressives!
There was an old popular song, I think it was during WWII, a sort of battle cry to rally the troops. I think the lyrics are appropriate for a peaceful approach to a political contest in November for us progressives:
“WE DID IT BEFORE AND WE CAN DO IT AGAIN…….” in November 2010 and 2012!!!!!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 7, 2010
at 8:43 PM
“I believe we all know in our hearts there is no real Margaret and Helen.”
Wouldn’t that just be your ideal resolution – “And it was all a dream……..
I can’t speak for others, but I don’t ‘know’ any such thing. My personal theory is that Helen and Margaret (Helen, as the major writer) are exactly as represented; old, savvy, and using admitted nom de plumes for security reasons. I suspect that this was intended to be largely private conversation between them, but when it went viral, it turned into a lot more time, effort and attention than they really wished to handle. I applaud them for keeping it going a full three years.
I do wonder why it’s so impossible to believe that an old person could write like this and have such opinions. It says more about you than about Helen’. As far as the remainder of your nice life goes, I truly wish that you do not experience the same decline that you expect for others.
Helen, if we don’t hear from you again – I wanna grow up to be you. Thanks.
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By: judith on August 7, 2010
at 8:21 PM
Wow –
I’ve been working on my old ’62 Cessna all day; looks like I missed a real donnybrook!
Firstly, I am truly sorry to see you go, Rae. I have begun to have real respect for you.
But it’s all for the best, I think. As much as we wish it were not so, I believe we all know in our hearts there is no real Margaret and Helen. It was all a very clever little ruse to promote one particular side in the culture war, and order here was kept through intimidation – just like in the old Soviet Union – until one day someone arrived who could not be intimidated. Once it was shown – over and over – that those who claim to own the moral high ground in reality behave exactly like those they claim to oppose, the Emperor’s backside was exposed it was all over. I will be very surprised if there is ever another post by “Margaret” or “Helen” or “Amber and Fred” or whoever he, she, they are – unless, of course, they post in response to this note to prove it is not so.
But no matter. Have a nice life, everyone. I’ll be looking around for more liberals to expose. It’s kind of getting boring, though. With experience I’m afraid it has become just too easy.
Turdblossom
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By: PFesser on August 7, 2010
at 6:44 PM
Heck I sat in the same box as Rushbo through an entire football game and he was “pleasant”. He didn’t behead any small children or pull the ears off of puppies while I was watching………. That and 5 bucks will buy you a Starbucks.
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By: lori on August 7, 2010
at 4:46 PM
I wouldn’t doubt Bush is pleasant, but I have a friend who went through K-12 with Dick Cheney and he assures me Dick Cheney has always been a ass. And I don’t doubt that either.
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By: no one's puppet on August 7, 2010
at 3:31 PM
Boy was I late to this blog chain. I’ve always checked for new columns by helen & never stayed to read the letters. If Helen is reading these comments James she’d be the first one to point out what a dick you are, & SMUG. Since she doesn’t seem able to reply I will SMUG PRICK!
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By: kaylaspop on August 7, 2010
at 2:30 PM
I wasn’t making moral value judgments. I was reporting my friend’s experience with Bush. Our auto man thought Bush was a nice guy, quick with jokes and polite to the caddies.
I’ve met Bill Clinton too. He seems as nice as Bush. However, Clinton made a special trip to Arkansas to fry an allegedly retarded man because it was good politics when he ran for president.
I oppose capital punishment, but I don’t think either man is evil.
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By: James on August 7, 2010
at 2:03 PM
RSS (Really Simple Syndication) is a group of web formats used for frequent standardized updates. It is used in some blogs, for example. The information can be published once and seen by multiple readers.
That’s all I know, and I don’t even know if it is correct. . Google RSS or check Wickipedia. Surely they can tell you what you want to know.
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By: James on August 7, 2010
at 1:43 PM
I’m so sure it’s lots of fun to be around a former president who, when he was president, ridiculed and made fun of someone asking for a stay of execution. Wonderful sense of personal character there, don’t you think?
Bush and his family have put on quite a show over the last 90 years.
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By: vgman on August 7, 2010
at 1:33 PM
You are wrong Rae. Your definition of “class” is letting others victimize you. I doubt it is how you live your life. Bye.
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By: James on August 7, 2010
at 1:08 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Please excuse my Computerese ignorance in Blogland, but what do “RSS – Posts” and “RSS -Comments” mean?
tx
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 7, 2010
at 1:00 PM
No ones’ puppet. Bush golfed quite a few times early in his administration. Later, as the war was going badly, he gave it up because he said it didn’t seem right for him to be golfing when soldiers and civilians were dying in two wars. It was no sacrifice, just a symbolic gesture. I don’t know or care if Bush golfs now.
My point is the Obama’s don’t have the sense of symbolism Bush had, and his family’s lavish trips in these times are beginning to wear thin, mostly on conservatives and maybe others. I don’t care about Obamas’ trips. He is always at the government’s beck and call. However, I do care that the press is using a double standard in reporting.
Before our auto repair man bought his business, he worked for a man who knew “W” He played golf with the future president twice and said Bush was a lot of fun to be with.
I try to be fair. Read E.J. Dionne Jr.’s article in the Washington Post. “Auto bailout turned out well for industry, public.” He gives credit to Bush for setting the machinery into motion and to Obama for bailing out the auto companies. I agree with him.
Sorry to bore you with my personal life, but since you mentioned it, I do have a big case of ” the red ass.” My wife and I are on the board of a Town and Country Arts organization. We were part of an insurgency which removed the previous leaders. Their antics were damaging the organization and alienated several donors.
They regrouped and created a “rump parliament” complete with advertised meetings. I have been communicating with both sides, but it is falling apart. We are dealing with sequential changed locks, consultations with the sheriff, lawyers and the county attorney. We are discussing restraining orders. Creative people are tempermental and crazy.
Twenty years ago, I helped get signs designating a historic byway. The signs were popular, but now Iowa wants the byway signs to be uniform. Since our county now has three scenic byways, and the state will pay for the signs, I think new signs are a good deal.
Our county economic development chair thinks we need to let Iowa buy us new signs, and asked several organizations write letters supporting the purchase. As president of our county Certified Local Government and of the Historical Society, I wrote and signed two letters. We didn’t have a meeting, though I polled several members of the historical society, and I wrote the letter as a private citizen associated with the historical society, not an official representative.
We created a fire storm. Some of the officials have a financial interest in keeping the old signs. They have been selling memoribilia quietly, and maybe illegally. Government officials are not supposed to profit from projects like that. The head of the conservation commission with which the historical society has financial and other ties is livid. We both manage the welcome center and museum, and they are hoping our society donates $20,000 to help pay for landscaping and improvements to the welcome center. This makes dealing with them more difficult.
Meanwhile, my wife got a grant for our CLG to publish an oral history we made for the Iowa sesquicentianal in 1995. We hired a woman to transcribe the interviews, but she bailed because of a bad back. We spent over fifty hours proof reading and correcting what she did do. My wife and I have been finishing the work and it needs to be done in a couple of weeks. We are 3/4 done.
My wife checked the terms of the grant and learned the woman who started transcribing worked so many hours she will take the lion’s share of the payment. Our work will likely end up being a payment in kind contribution.
And that’s why I was in a bad mood this morning. Bet you and everyone else wish you had never asked.
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By: James on August 7, 2010
at 12:18 PM
Rae, there is room for you in the kitchen. Just click on my name to find it.
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By: delurkergurl on August 7, 2010
at 11:56 AM
I am out of here, permanently. I’ve had it with this “if everyone would treat me nicely, I would do the same” stuff. Class is behaving when those around you are not. And knowing when to leave. Auntie Jean, it has been a pleasure.
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By: Rae on August 7, 2010
at 11:32 AM
I had to leave for Omaha and didn’t have time to finish my tirade, Lori.
Trading personal insults is childish. Look at the record. I didn’t start this fight, but it will continue as long as you want.
My rule is be nice to me, and I will be nice to you. If you control your anger long enough to treat the other side with respect, I will treat you the same.
Otherwise, nothing will change. I don’t know enough about you, but my guess is you may be suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome. You should talk to someone.
If I didn’t already know politics is a dirty business, I’d know by “meeting” a soiled bit of fluff as you, “buttercup.” Please forgive me for not returning the cyber kisses. I don’t know where you’ve been.
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By: James on August 7, 2010
at 11:04 AM
Geez James, you seem to have what folks in Louisiana call “the red ass” this morning, maybe some nice herbal tea will settle your nerves. I don’t think it was a sacrifice for Bush II to give up golf. When did he ever golf? Has he golfed even once since he left office? I not saying he’s never golfed, but get real.
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By: no one's puppet on August 7, 2010
at 9:00 AM
Which Jim are you referring to Lori? Me, James or the Professor.
Don’t worry your pretty little head Lori. I am a precinct committeeman and on the county party board. I have spoken to both of my senators and representatives reps so often they recognize my voice and sometimes visit about their personal subjects.
I’m making a difference in other ways too.
I’m not whining about “big bad liberals” I’m calling you out when you behave like boors and when you lie.
You are a minor distraction. My dreams focus on a man and his daughter burning to death in a wrecked truck. They will die many times until I am dead.
I have not yet sunk so low to pollute my mind with the likes of you.
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By: James on August 7, 2010
at 8:54 AM
Dave Weigel was the first casualty of the Jounolist scandal. He is now at slate.com owned by the Washington Post, his former employer.
He wrote “The Five Myths about the ‘tea party.’ They are not racists in his opinion, and like many organizations they try to expel racists as they appear.
Another writer said the Tea Party is no more or less racist than other groups. She wrote it is good poliltical strategy to accuse them of it and force them to spend energy defending themselves while making main stream politicians reluctant to associate with them.
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By: James on August 7, 2010
at 8:31 AM
For those of you who were interested in the KY senate race (Rand Paul (TB) Jack Conway (D) here is a site that can help you find ways to help with the campaign. http://www.jackconway.org/
Real Clear Politics has Paul up by 6, which is EXCELLENT considering it is a VERY STRONG R seat. If you take into account Rassmussen was considered into that average ……. we have a real race down there! Although his last numers slipped a bit. Keep the pressure up and this is one of several senate seats I think we can steal. Paul has already been forced to take money from the established GOP, even though he is a TB, he couldn’t raise enough money!
YAY for us. Yes we can!
Also if you are interested in putting Perry into permanent retirement (Mr. Good Hair and Helen calls him) we could use some help in Dallas. That is an area where we could pick up lots of votes. We need people to register new voters, phone bank, blog, op ed.
Thanks! have a great weekend all.. namaste
Awwwwww sweet Jim, I see you are thinking about me again this morning. Did you dream about me too? You know if you spent half as much time working for your cause as you do whining about the big bad liberals calling you names you might actually be a significant help to your cause. Politics is a dirty bizness buttercup, you better learn to suck it up if you decide to troll. kiss kiss
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By: lori on August 7, 2010
at 7:53 AM
Kaylaspop might have a point about Lynn Sweet if she was the only reporter discussing the trip. She is not. NBC cited the cost to the Obamas and the tax payers.
The Obama’s series of expensive vacations and trips is their business as long as they pay the bills. Their staff and other ancillary costs my taxes pay for are my business. The president is never really on vacation because the White House follows him, so the trips themselves are not a big deal to me.
What we have is more hypocracy. The press needled Bush for his frequent vacations to his Texas ranch, but now we don’t hear much criticism of the Obamas for doing the same thing. That trend may change.
Bush quit golfing because he thought it looked bad when our troops were fighting a war. Obama takes no such care for appearances. Symbolism is important, and though there is nothing wrong with lavish trips, it looks bad in this weak economy when so many families are forced to cut back. The Obamas and other politicians leave themselves open to unnecessary criticism.
I did some research before the last election and learned about Michelle’s job at the University of Chicago Hospital. She was hired as the hospital’s Executive Director for $120,000 per year. In 2005, the hospital created a new previously non- existent job for her and raised her salary to $316,962. In Feb. 2006, Obama requested a $1 million dollar earmark for the University of Chicago.
Days after the election, Mrs. Obama resigned, and on January 14, Michelle’s position was eliminated. Her job was absorbed into another. Why? Was this a pay off? Or an innocent change of hospital policy? Why didn’t the press investigate what I was able to find? Doug Ross@journal reports the story. He is a conservative, but his facts on this are true.
The press operates under a double standard which I believe is worse for us in the long run than a politician’s extravagance.
“Miss Jean Brody”, I suggest “Genetic Influence on Human Psychological Traits A survey by Thomas J. Bouchard Jr. I can find others for you, but we wouldn’t want to strain your old eyes.
Maybe, together, we can understand Lori who called me a “bagger”. A genetic psychologist would have a field day exploring her mind.
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By: James on August 7, 2010
at 7:23 AM
Jean –
Hope you are having a good time on your trip.
Do you think you will have time today to begin your “line by line” exposition on the biological basis of sexual differentiation in humans? I have my old med school textbooks and a stack of “Science” magazines at the ready so I can follow along…
Thanks,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 7, 2010
at 5:15 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Chrystal on August 8 at 8:55PM,
I’m glad you enjoy my travel stories. I love writing about them and reliving them in the process.
Yes, of course. Since I am a ‘Little Old Lady’ (although I prefer to refer to myself as an ‘Old Broad’) I claim that privilege to respond or not respond as I see fit in any way I see fit, especially when I see posts that I feel belong more in the ‘National Inquirer’ than here at M&H’s porch. I have neither the time nor the inclination to respond to each and every challenge, Most of the other posters claim that privilege as well.
Speaking of time. With our CA family visiting here, whenever they come back from the beach they are STARVED!!! Gawd!!! They are eating us out of house and home!!! I had forgotten what it is like to try to fill up a 15-going-on-16 year old boy, our grandson.
Did I tell everybody in the gang that he has a beautiful singing voice and had a leading role in a recent high school musical production? We have been having some private performances and are amazed. Proud grandma and grandpa!!! He and I are working on some music together and having a great time at it. Maybe I’ll tell you about it later.
Right now, I’ve got to go rustle up some more chow because they will be back soon. A clam dip and chips maybe? Grandson is going through mango nectar like there’s no tomorrow!
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 6, 2010
at 8:54 PM
Lynn Sweet is a trouble making mensch, not a reporter. One in the same started the whole Skip Gates non-happening into Rush’s wet dream. Cite her & every argument you’d like to make flies directly out the window. Helen, where you?
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By: kaylaspop on August 6, 2010
at 4:08 PM
I love it..Keep digging it deeper ..
Queen Latifa of the WHITE HOUSE, first lady Michelle Obama is halfway around the world, on vacation with her 9-year-old daughter, Sasha, in Spain.
The two are traveling on what the White House has described as a four-day “private trip” with several Obama family friends along the country’s ritzy southern coast.
Of course, no first lady’s life is truly ever private, and already plenty of drama is swirling around Michelle Obama’s foreign jaunt. Some critics have laid into the trip’s price, while others are highlighting an apparent diplomatic gaffe between the United States and Spain.
In a scathing editorial published Thursday, New York Daily News writer Andrea Tantaros trashed Michelle Obama as a “modern day Marie Antoinette” for taking such a glitzy vacation while most of the country is struggling to make ends meet.
The Obama entourage is staying at the luxury Hotel Villa Padierna, a Ritz-Carlton property often described as one of the world’s top 10 hotels. Rates range between $500 and $2,500 a night. It’s not clear that the Obama delegation picked this hotel specifically, or if the Secret Service — which often gets final say over where a protectee stays — made the accommodations call.
Either way, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters that the first lady will pay her personal expenses — as will the friends who are traveling with her. But that only covers a small part of the ultimate expense, given that she has full-time Secret Service protection and has to travel with an entourage of staff. That cost, as well as her travel on board an official Air Force charter plane, is covered by taxpayers.
Its estimated to cost upwards of 200K a day for the security detail.
As the Chicago Sun-Times’ Lynn Sweet reports, by the end of the summer, the first lady will have taken eight vacations.
That includes a June trip to Los Angeles, where she and her daughters attended the NBA Finals, as well as an upcoming trip to the Florida Gulf Coast next weekend and a 10-day visit to Martha’s Vineyard later this month with the president.
Just a few months and we all can tell the Obama’s how we really feel about their management of our economy,health care and oil clean up.
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By: Leslie on August 6, 2010
at 2:26 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and delurker gurl,
Gotcha! Our CA family is here so time is limited but I’ll get into the kitchen soon.
Thank you for the invitation.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 6, 2010
at 2:14 PM
no one’s puppet –
“I think we were all respectful, without agreeing, when we discussed our personal religious, or lack there of, beliefs, wonder why we can’t do this with politics?”
We can. But I think it would be instructive to look back a little at the posts on ALL subjects, and things will be a bit clearer. There is a pattern there. See it?
To my eye it goes as follows: 1) opinion expressed. 2) second person weighs in. If they agree with the first person, all is good. If they do not, person one gets snotty. 3) person two gets snotty back 4) person one calls them a troll. 5) others pile on. Never varies.
There is a second pattern, too. The first snotter is always one of the same group, as is the second – I picked out the little clique the first time I posted. As long as you toe the line, life is good, but a different opinion isn’t welcome. What happened to that “tolerance for all opinions” thing? Sometimes it seems those who believe they are the good guys behave exactly like those they claim to oppose. I really understand (was it Helen’s nephew?) the POV about how those who self-identify as troll-killers would be considered trolls themselves anywhere else.
I could be wrong. Just my opinion.
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By: PFesser53 on August 6, 2010
at 1:29 PM
Heyyyyyy look at delurkers name.. Whatta know about that. I think I’ll click it and see what happens! LOL
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By: lori on August 6, 2010
at 1:06 PM
I think we were all respectful, without agreeing, when we discussed our personal religious, or lack there of, beliefs, wonder why we can’t do this with politics? Less personalities, more substance? Or at least reach some consensus on what are the most pressing problems facing our nation.
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By: no one's puppet on August 6, 2010
at 12:50 PM
I’ve figured out a simple way to get this thing to call up faster at times, so here I am.
Poolman, I like Obama as a person too. However, he is still on OJT, and as you write, his advisers are ill serving him. I basically agree with what you wrote. A European diplomat said before WW1 something like “The lights are going out one by one. We shall not see them again in our time.” I suspect it will be pretty dark for awhile.
Thank you no one’s puppet. We don’t have to agree. We need to respect one another. You wrote it better than any of us.
This one’s for you: “I knew a man that I did not care for. And then one day, this man gave me a call. We sat and talked about things on our minds, and now this man, he is a friend of mine. Reach out in the Darkness…”
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By: James on August 6, 2010
at 11:48 AM
Congratulations, Elena Kagan! It’s either a beautiful day or there’s a high risk of big chunks of sky falling, depending on who you listen to, LOL!
Donna & JRSI, if you are lurking could you email me? Just use my ID @ hotmail.com. I miss you!
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By: delurkergurl on August 6, 2010
at 11:19 AM
“I don’t think he (or any president) has the ability to steer this big ship. Though he stands at the helm, the rudder is otherwise manipulated. The tide’s going out and the undercurrent is intense. It is a titanic feat to just stay the course.”
I think you are just being naut-y.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 6, 2010
at 10:53 AM
I am only speaking for myself.
I found this site by accident when I was googling something else. My motives were innocent. I just wanted some friendly arguments and maybe make an e friend or two as I had on two other message boards.
I was polite and at first my novelty value kept the others civil too. Then, the piling on began, and I responded in kind.
Around June 28, Helen or Margaret’s nephew, (I don’t remember which) wrote that many who fancy themselves troll killers would be considered trolls themselves on moderated message boards.
Lori is a prime example.
Her conspiratorial adhominon attacks would get her banned or suspended from many message boards, including Janeane Garafalo’s which I moderated before I left. I think I am still listed as a moderator on the Janeane Garafalo message board. Look it up.
Lori’s depiction of me and others as a cyber trouble makers is wrong. Why would a liberal site like Garafalo’s choose me to be a moderator? I think Lori is afraid of contrary opinions she cannot refute.
Do your remember, Lori when you wrote you would ignore me because I was parroting Rush’s lies when the politicians you supported were proving themselves to be liars too. Which were you that day, a hyprocrite or clueless?
Do you need someone to spell out the Regime’s lies?
Lori, remember when you tried to disprove my argument with a factcheck citation and it supported what I was writing? That was a special moment wasn’t it? Surely you treasure the memory as much as I do. When your case is weak, you have to resort to mud slinging don’t you?
Another special moment was Jean’s writing I would never win any humanitarian awards after I won an argument. She opposed using the A bomb to end WW11, even it if its use saved many Allied and Japanese lives. I supported my point with a government estimate of the carnage which a ground invasion would have caused. I think her humanitarian comment was her response or it came from another argument she couldn’t support with facts.
By all means, anyone look at the record. Maybe start with “snarky Friday” around June, 2009.
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By: James on August 6, 2010
at 10:40 AM
Harmony, nice as it is, doesn’t keep my interest for very long, but at the same time the mundane “humor” strings just creepy. That’s the right word, creepy. That goes for those “great thinkers:” Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, who make up their own facts. The latter of whom is probably going blind from all the Vicks Vapor Rub he put on his eyes to make him tear. I am going to agree with James on one thing, age is not a defense, a lot of us qualify as older individuals. Almost all of us are college graduates or have had some college, we know better, sloppy scholarship makes my teeth hurt. List your arguments and back them up with relevant facts and then give your conclusion, then you will be able defend.
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By: no one's puppet on August 6, 2010
at 10:34 AM
I have liked Obama since the first time I heard him speak. I felt he spoke from the heart and had a great compassion for people. I have not changed my opinion on that, but I have been disappointed by some of the policies promoted by him and his administration. I think those surrounding him are self-serving and many are true criminals of the state. I know we expect much from our leader, but he isn’t a king. I don’t think he (or any president) has the ability to steer this big ship. Though he stands at the helm, the rudder is otherwise manipulated. The tide’s going out and the undercurrent is intense. It is a titanic feat to just stay the course.
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By: poolman on August 6, 2010
at 10:08 AM
Being married helps doesn’t it no one’s puppet.
I agree with your last comment. Polls only represent an educated guess of opinion on one day.
Yes, Rae, I know the proponents of single payer and socialized medicine are in the majority. I am one of them. Add the implications and costs, the majority fades, and you lose me.
I mused about the “marketing problem” you mentioned.
I was part of and subject to socialized medicine in the service. I watched it evolve in Britain and to a lessor degree, France. The French did better with a combination.
The National Weather Service uses observers like me to provide “ground truth” to confirm their radar observations and for climatological data.
Polls are like radar. They give information, but by themselves they only provide gist for assumptions.
Combine the average of all major polls with public attitudes, and we have an approximation of “ground truth.” It shows a majority disenchanted with the direction this country is taking and a majority, probably by default, more conservative than the administration. Scott Brown is just one bit of ground truth.
Bill Clinton had a similar problem and his moving the country too far left helped Republicans win on their Contract With America. He may be a dirt bag, but I like him. Bill was smart enough to tack toward the right and become what some called a virtual Republican president.
Obama is intelligent and charming. If he was more flexible and found something that worked, the majority would not feel they were being dragged into something they didn’t want.
To be fair, President Obama and Congress are wrongly blamed for losing or creating jobs. Private citizens do that. Their policies influence the economy though.
I try hard not to “hear what ” I “want to hear.” If I had we would have lost the farm during the farm recession. I “want to hear” Obama will lose the next election, but I think he can still win a second term. The Republicans for the most part, are still out to lunch. That’s another thing I don’t want to hear, but it is true.
Its been fun the past few days, but our slow dial up system and the difficulty of getting this site to load may not let me post much longer.
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By: James on August 6, 2010
at 9:34 AM
TY mikat… your words are very kind and I am VERY undeserving! LOL
I sent you an e-mail. I am busy for the rest of the day hanging out with my daughters, but I will get back to you asap.
Keep the home fires burning guys.. 😉
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By: lori on August 6, 2010
at 9:22 AM
Lori
I am a BIG fan of yours, you say what I would like to, only MUCH better!!
Please tell me where the gang has gone!
I have been a constant reader and occasional contributer for two years, I miss the “team”.
you can reach me at ~vanje~aol.com
Rae,
I am very happy to see you have joined the porch dwellers, you are a joy.
Auntie Jean, You may have to step in and be our next “Helen” if she does not return soon.
It has been so long since Helen has written us, I am afraid there must be something wrong.
Helen,
I hope all is well with you and yours, come back soon, we miss you and Margaret very much!
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By: mikat on August 6, 2010
at 9:07 AM
For those of you who are interested and did not receive this e-mail…
On March 7th, 1965, 600 of us lined up to walk from Selma to Montgomery, to march for voting rights.
When we tried to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge over the Alabama River, we were met by state troopers. They attacked us with tear gas, bullwhips, and nightsticks.
It became known as Bloody Sunday, and the national outcry over the brutality that day led to the enactment, exactly 45 years ago today, of the Voting Rights Act.
The progress we’ve made since then is remarkable.
But the expansion of voting rights for millions did not happen overnight. It was the product of a continued struggle, by many people, over many years.
And just as change did not come easily then, it does not come easily now.
Discrimination still exists in America — its effects can be as harmful as they were decades ago. And we can always become a better, more just society.
Two years ago, this movement — led by Barack Obama — brought millions of people into the political process for the first time.
I’m told that many of you are working hard now to get as many as possible of those folks — and others from across the country who are with us in these fights — to the polls this year.
It’s an important effort, and the legacy of the fight for the Voting Rights Act is that it is not only our right to vote, and to help others do so — it is our duty.
Can I count on you to help out between now and the elections in November?
When I was a child, I tasted the bitter fruits of racial discrimination — and I did not like it.
That was what spurred me to act. In those early days, we sacrificed our very selves for our rights as Americans. But we never gave up.
And now barriers that kept an entire people from full participation in this country have been removed.
No longer are people who look like me met with violence when we register to vote.
No longer is the idea that an African American could become president just a dream.
We live in a better world, a better country.
But our work is not complete. We cannot wait for someone else to make change.
We must all do it. You must do it. I must do it.
Please sign up to help millions more vote:
http://my.barackobama.com/VolunteerVRA
Thank you,
Representative John Lewis
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By: lori on August 6, 2010
at 9:06 AM
and here come the alter egos……
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By: lori on August 6, 2010
at 9:02 AM
Jean,
From what little I’ve seen or read, you do have a tendency to pull the “Little ole lady” routine,then run away or not respond to people who challenge you on your postings.
I’ve enjoyed your postings about your travels, but when you have been challenged there have been numerous occasions where I have not seen a response or you belittled the other party as not worthy of your response.
Just saying.
Chrystal
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By: Chrystal on August 6, 2010
at 8:55 AM
Had a secretary once who did not like to be referenced by the comment of “yes mamm” or “no mamm.”
I told her it was the way I was raised, a southern thing I suppose..and that I opened doors for ladies.
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By: craig on August 6, 2010
at 8:49 AM
With all due respect Rae I am surprised you haven’t figured Jim’s (and his alter egos) motive out yet. He isn ‘t here for good conversation and debate he was summoned here to help out the other bagger who got his little boy’s panties in a wad last year. This is a typical wing nut “strategy”. Do you honestly believe they are fan’s of M&H’s way of thinking and just innocently wandered onto her blog because they wanted to “chat”? They were most likely cohorts from another blog from which they have been banned . M&H had been getting a lot of publicity the trolls came out of the wood work. They have been nothing but nasty arrogant sobs since they arrived, insulting and belittling anyone they are threatened by. Just like bullies on a play ground. They have used every tactic in the book.
All of us, have tried to have respectful conversations with these nuts, it’s impossible because that isn’t their reason for being here.
You are a new contributor to this blog and most likely are not aware of the history of these trolls. Don’t believe me? If you are interested go back in the archives and see where they came onto the sceen and see who started what, when……Please don’t be fooled into thinking the buttercups are here for intellectual convo.
Oh and NOP you are 100 percent correct.
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By: lori on August 6, 2010
at 8:44 AM
Rae –
Jim, I call ad feminam.
Nonsense. Support that argument, please.
Actually, the problem is not ad- anything. IMHO the problem is that there is a certain amount of inappropriate deference given to Jean by everyone – except me, of course – because of her alleged age – allowances made that would not be made for you or me, for example. In the meantime, she feels safe poking her head out from time to time with snotty comments, then retreating, saying, “Don’t hit me; I’m an old woman!” – comforted by the certain knowledge that others will take up for her.
Sorry – doesn’t work on me. If you don’t want the big kids to play rough with you then don’t play rough with them.
‘As an argument, it is beneath you. What’s wrong with a simple “jsri, if you are a genetics professor, please take the time to weigh in on this topic. I for one am interested in current thought, irrespective of Jean’s belief on the matter.”’
I wasn’t responding to jsri; I was responding to Jean, who said she “could refute line by line.” OK, then do so. I welcome any germane comments by jsri or anyone else. We ALL need to learn, and whoever has the information is welcome in my personal space.
“Your tone belies your claim to be willing to learn, and signing “cordially” does not undo the harm.”
That’s called sarcasm. If there is anything for which to apologise, it is that. I apologise.
On another front: quoting a little Simon and Garfunkel, I see…I loved “The Boxer.” A perfect song for a melancholy teenage boy of the ‘seventies. Many, many good memories of that song…
Cordially – and I mean that,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 6, 2010
at 8:19 AM
Speaking of arguing, I could tell you polls aren’t valid representations of public opinion, because of how the questions are formed, use of cell phones and caller I D, and I’d have a point, but I won’t. In my own state, the general election campaigns have begun in earnest and poll numbers have changed significantly. I’m not taking them for granted though, if they changed once, they could change again. Polls really are a picture in time of the number of presumed voters and how they presume they will vote several months later.
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By: no one's puppet on August 6, 2010
at 7:48 AM
Years of practice James, I’m married.
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By: no one's puppet on August 6, 2010
at 7:36 AM
But wait, there’s more.
Jim, I call ad feminam. As an argument, it is beneath you. What’s wrong with a simple “jsri, if you are a genetics professor, please take the time to weigh in on this topic. I for one am interested in current thought, irrespective of Jean’s belief on the matter.”
Your tone belies your claim to be willing to learn, and signing “cordially” does not undo the harm.
OK, you were writing in the wee hours of the morning, so we will assume that you weren’t at your peak, but please clean it up.
R
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By: Rae on August 6, 2010
at 7:25 AM
Clearly, a “man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest.” Seeing a lot of that today.
James, did you know that a majority of the people in this country are proponents of single payer (when it is described without political labels)? Hard to believe so many people support that key foundational element of “socialized medicine,” (really just simplified medical billing and cutting out the middle man, but why break conversation on the wheel of exact inquiry?)
The majority of people in this country use the label “conservative” when describing themselves, but endorse ideas that are liberal. That sounds like a marketing problem to me, not a political one.
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By: Rae on August 6, 2010
at 7:16 AM
Yes, Lori, “run and hide”. “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.”
As for that Shakespear quote, look in the mirror.
Jean, I’d like to watch you “refute line by line.” You’d have as much success as I would to fly if I jumped out my upstairs window.
Poolman, I didn’t try to watch the video because of our slow dial up service, but I you may be on to something.
No one’s puppet, you put up a good argument. That is more than we can say about several of the others.
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By: James on August 6, 2010
at 7:14 AM
I received this in an e-mail this morning… thought it so fitting for the porch 😉
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Also for my friendly porch dwellers…. we have had some difficult astrological aspects these last couple of weeks ( = grouchy people) but the moon entered Gemmy yesterday so things should start to feel a little better soon. Gemmy moon reminds to us to breathe! Hang in there friends! 😉
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By: lori on August 6, 2010
at 4:58 AM
Jean wrote –
“This recent talk about ‘X’ and ‘Y’ chromosomes, yatta, yatta,yatta is very amusing and I could refute line by line but you as a Biology and Genetics professor could do it even better and provide links to up-dated info. Why bother. I think neither of us wants to waste our time mostly because the vast majority of the info would be so far over the yatta, yatta, yatta heads. ”
Please, enlighten us. I for one relish new information, have you any. I especially am interested in the “line by line” stuff.
You know Jean, the problem with the Internet is that you never REALLY know who anyone is, and broadcasting in the blind – as you, I’m afraid, are so often wont to do – sometimes connects you with people who are far, far over YOUR head and when the denouement comes, one can end up looking pretty silly. That’s already happened to you once – want to go around again?
We await breathlessly your biology lecture. “Refute” away…
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser on August 6, 2010
at 4:37 AM
Awwwwww Jim, you are such a charmer. TY sweetheart kiss kiss.
YW Delurker 😉
Auntie Jean, I am having a wonderful time thank you! We lived in Dallas for 11 years, so not only am I able to spend time with my wonderful daughter, I have had the opportunity to visit with my long time TX friends. It’s been so much fun. I have laughed so much my cheeks hurt! I am so blessed to have such lovely people in my life.
I have a few more days here and then I will be helping my daughter pack up and move back to university for her senior year. I get to have her ONE more year before she permanently moves to the big D. 😉
Hope you’re wrong about M&H, A new post would help. This thread is getting difficult if not impossible to load.
Just in case we have lurkers…It’s time to gear up for November elections. All hands on deck. We need your help! Please volunteer, volunteer, volunteer!
Enjoy your day all!
namaste !
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By: lori on August 6, 2010
at 3:38 AM
I don’t think I posted this video before. Here’s change I can support. It’s all about class warfare and the disconnect in our world. I don’t hold out a lot of hope based on our recent history.
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By: poolman on August 5, 2010
at 9:45 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, lori, jsri and Rae on August 4 at 11:21AM,
I’m glad you are back lori, I hope you had a wonderful time with your daughter. Tell us all about it!
jsri, a while back you said something about this site being taken over and driving the gang away. You may be right! Like the ‘tea baggers’ and the ’birthers’, they aren’t very good at what they do – – – but they do a LOT of it!!! This recent talk about ‘X’ and ‘Y’ chromosomes, yatta, yatta,yatta is very amusing and I could refute line by line but you as a Biology and Genetics professor could do it even better and provide links to up-dated info. Why bother. I think neither of us wants to waste our time mostly because the vast majority of the info would be so far over the yatta, yatta, yatta heads.
Rae, I enjoyed the article you posted on “The End of Men”. I made a note to re-read later and check out the comments after our CA family has left and I have more time. I feel it is quite thought provoking. Naturally, my biased impressions are as a woman, daughter, wife and mother. My dad was an honorable man who earned the love and respect of me as well as my siblings, and of course, my mother. My husband too, is such a man. We put in an order for a daughter, but with our broken hearts, she wasn’t meant to be. Our three sons have grown to be fine, responsible men with lives and families of their own.
I think we all go through different phases of growth and development. In his youth, my husband was an ice hockey player for eight years in high school and college. He then served in the Air Force during the Korean ‘Conflict’ in B-47s for five years. You can’t get much more macho and gung ho than that!!! We were married for the last three years of his tour of duty.
I think many men go through the stages of being tough guys with nothing but muscles between their ears while their counterparts in women become air-headed sex kittens. These are rites of passage until we move onto the next stage toward a degree of maturity.
Most mammals can be taught to do intellectual tricks and skills, but that doesn’t mean they have reached anything near emotional maturity. Further, both men and women grow and develop at different rates.
Then comes middle age when many men have the well-known mid-life crisis and the women bemoan the loss of their ‘femininity ’ and sex appeal as menopause approaches. This is the second rite of passage. If both men and women have not resolved the conflicts of the first, they will have a tough time getting through the second or not at all. After that comes the third, time to grow old gracefully in wisdom.
Those men fixated during the first rite of passage get stuck there and feel the need for conquests, if not in reality, then in fantasy through porn to have a sex kitten satisfy their sexual appetites and feed their egos as macho players. Some sex kittens need to constantly have their egos fed with the attentions they can claim as conquests. Otherwise, those drives could just as easily be met through various methods of autoeroticism.
Men and women who have weathered these rites of passage know that the most successful relationships between men and women are mutual co-operation and gratification in all aspects of life.
In public political life, we certainly don’t need over-the-hill tough macho guys with nothing but muscles between their ears and aging airhead bimbo sex kittens making decisions affecting the lives of millions if not billions of people.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 5, 2010
at 9:21 PM
Thank you, Lori.
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By: delurkergurl on August 5, 2010
at 7:59 PM
Lori wrote:
“agreed gimmethetruth nice job…. drop me an e-mail and i’ll tell you where the rest of the M&H gang went”
Run and hide, little girl. We wouldn’t want you to get hurt playing with the big children, would we?
heheee…………
Jim
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By: PFesser on August 5, 2010
at 7:10 PM
Good to hear from you, Lori. I hope your visit has been fantastic. You have my email – lemme know where to find the gang!
Poolman, I would love to hear from your wife one day. She’s lucky to have you and I imagine she’d say so!
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By: delurkergurl on August 5, 2010
at 6:15 PM
Rae, your instincts are correct to be concern about crazies on the net. We even have one here on the front porch. Be careful.
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By: lori on August 5, 2010
at 3:57 PM
agreed gimmethetruth nice job…. drop me an e-mail and i’ll tell you where the rest of the M&H gang went.
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By: lori on August 5, 2010
at 3:45 PM
I’m sorry I forgot to log in.
No one’s puppet. I make my political assumption based on observation. An August, 2009 Gallup poll showed “Despite the Democratic Party’s political strength–seen in its majority representation in congress and in state houses across the country–more Americans consider themselves conservative than liberal.”
Another poll this summer showed twice as many conservatives as liberals. The poll James Carvil commissioned paints a similar picture. Now, it is possible liberals in some states self identify as conservatives even if they are not objectively conservative in the same way that people not of the middle class consider themselves to be so.
We know popularity of various political beliefs ebbs and flows, and I believe some conservative and liberal orientation is situational. Good or bad times influence the ratio.
Over time the majority has tended to be center right. That’s what I consider myself. Democrats must agree. Consider how President Obama campaigned. Though he left hints to the contrary, he presented himself as a moderate.
Rahm Emanuel recruited Democrats who were almost like Republicans and they became the Blue Dog Democrats Maxine Waters and others complained about during the health care bill debate. If he had thought the country was basically liberal, he would have spoken to more people of the left.
I agree that liberal enclaves tend to hold more people in a smaller geographical area than do conservative sections. Like the black man in Harlem, both tend to regard themselves as the norm. My subjective opinion is both are wrong. Moderates hold the majority, though circumstances are pushing more to the right.
The Tea Party has become a powerful inchoate grass roots movement with no counterpart on the other side. That is another sign to support my view. The Democrats have a huge majority, but they have struggled to pass their legislation because I believe a majority opposes it.
I have seen no signs to convince me I am wrong. The Democrats are swimming against a strong current. Were most Republicans not such clueless wonders and Tea Partiers less ideological, Democrats would be swept into minority status this go round.
I agree boys are more than augmented girls, but I was already taking so much space I became simplistic.
I think porn may serve a social purpose. Men are programed to spread their genes as far afield as they can. They are more visual because as hunters their genes tell them to watch the terrain. They care more about spreading their seed to as many as possible than about the personalities of their partners. Women are programed to select the best genetic material for their offspring. It is in their interest to have a loyal mate to protect and provide for. They are less visual because they need someone who will support them. Personality becomes more important. Moreover, a sexual encounter is much more expensive for a woman than a man. It is in her genetic interest to be more careful and slow. The goals of both genders work at cross purposes. In our society, filanderers are condemned especially if they are married. Porn is a virtual affair with multiple women society won’t let men have.
Studies have shown men range from monogamous to Charlie of Two and a Half Men. Women too. Women are sometimes attracted to “bad boys” but after pregnancy they better like safer men. That would make biological sense.
The other obvious explaination for porn is as you stated. Some men are socially inept.
I read that some womens’ sex drives improve in their forties. Maybe that explains cougars. Older men and younger women are acceptable. Why not the reverse?
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By: James on August 5, 2010
at 3:00 PM
Jim — of course I know a man isn’t a modified woman or whatever. I was just joking w/ James, who said men were women with something extra. “Men are women without the ability to multi-task” may have been a better joke.
I would rather he go for the girl than the porn. Once he goes for the porn (and I don’t mean the occasional porn, which all people enjoy, male and female), he won’t come back. Our obsession with marital fidelity is dysfunctional. It’s one of the ideas our culture instilled, but I was never able to throw off, to my detriment. I hope my kids are more sensible.
Poolman, good points about porn as an addiction. In all my years, I have never, never met someone who spent hours reading / surfing for porn, and had even a passably decent family relationship.
Therefore, I would rather he go for the girl. At least you know he’s still in the human game.
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By: Rae on August 5, 2010
at 2:28 PM
This article by Gordon Duff is good and reinterates that we need to beware of god’s army in our midst. The dominionists will take this country down if we aren’t vigilant.
As far as porn goes….men will defend their “right” to enjoy it until the sun no longer shines upon the earth, IMO. Denying it hurts anything or affects relationships is the common opinion among them, but that doesn’t line up with reality. Like other addictions, some people are more susceptible. The results affect perceptions and relationships from subtle to extreme. Few, if any, are positive or healthy. The fact that many “normal” or “family-type” people are involved does not change that. Of course, from a capitalist perspective – porn/sex sells and is profitable. But then, so is war contracting.
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By: poolman on August 5, 2010
at 12:18 PM
Rae –
Apologies – I didn’t see that anonymous was you.
re: porn. I think it is a great thing. Here are some of my observations, and the opinions are mine alone; I don’t presume to speak for anyone else.
I believe men are far more stimulated by visual input. That is generally accepted as true and in my case absolutely true. Women in my experience are less so – and more stimulated by more subtle things – and at a slower pace. A guy who can temporarily hide that throbbing erection long enough to play the head game will never sleep alone, in my experience.
Secondly, porn is a good substitute because not all guys know how to play the boy-meets-girl game. Lack of confidence is most of it, and that is itself such a turn-off to women that it becomes a self-reinforcing thing. Good looks help a man moderately, but regardless, if you can do the head game, the sex is yours for the taking. For those other guys, porn fills the gap.
Thirdly, I believe women are in general less interested in sex and – importantly – the longer they go without, the less it bothers them. Men are exactly the opposite; the longer they are abstinent the more it becomes an obsession. Once again, porn fills the need.
Fourthly, after about forty, most women can take sex or leave it. Absolutely not true for men untll they are ninety. The women who are good sports will still put out and do enjoy it once the ball, so to speak, gets rolling. The smart ones may hope it goes away, but don’t refuse their partners anyhow, and as I said, are good sports, because for men the urge only gets stronger with denial. You can recognize those women who stop f-ing their husbands by the lack of a ring on their fourth left finger – my ex-wife of 26 years is one of them. (There is no job security nowadays – one of the casualties of modern sex.)
Why do many women dislike porn? Aside from not being personally interested, it is a union-buster. Men just need the relief much of the time, and when they don’t get it at home, they will either get in from porn or from some other woman who is perfectly willing to bust the women’s union for her own benefit. What your momma told you about “What a man doesn’t find at home he will find elsewhere” is 100 percent true. Believe me, I know.
For your own partner, which of the above would you prefer he do, the porn or the girl?
Just my five cents’ worth. Comments?
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 5, 2010
at 11:54 AM
James and Rae –
I believe the idea that boys are just augmented girls or some variant on that theme is far too simplistic. The development of the sexes is extremely complicated, and we now know that the chromosomes are only part of the story in genetic expression and do not carry all the genetic data. Remember, this organism developed more or less haphazardly, and when the truth is eventually discovered it almost certainly won’t fit even remotely our desires for neat, compartmentalized and simple explanations.
Rae – once again, the idea that giving men estrogens makes them more like women is too simplistic. Some things, yes. Some no. Many things are set in place and welded long ago and pouring estrogen on them only screws them up but does not convert them to the “other.” It’s like acromegaly – if you give growth hormone after the bones stop growing and the physes have fused, you get a grotesque monster, not just a tall fella.
Rae – re: overstimulation and ADD. My wife lived with the Amish for a while when she was younger. Know what the incidence of ADD is in Amish? It is nearly unheard of. It’s been shown that the brain is very plastic early on and can be permanently altered physically by external stimuli. Cover a kitten’s eyes for six weeks after birth and they are permanently blind. I wonder if the hyperstimulatory, flash-flash-flash TV shows like Powerpuff Girls doesn’t program the brain to search that kind of stimulus out. Don’t underestimate the estrogen-like substances in the environment, either. Most of the stuff goes that into the animals we eat is related chemically to the estrogens and the excess they pee out goes into the water cycle. Oral contraceptive and other products eventually go into the water. The dose required for effect is vanishingly small. I really wonder…
anonymous – Why do men like porn? Because it’s fun. Why do you like sex? If you tried to explain why to an alien, they would say, “Why in the world would anybody find that fun?” Because it is hardwired. Why do people like feet or bondage or spanking? Because they are wired to be excited by it. In my former life as an EE, I had the opportunity to go to AdultDex in Las Vegas. I found the adult webmasters to be – almost to the last person – nice, good people, with families. (Not Max Hardcore – he’s an ass). They provide something fun to people who want it. No harm done.
Poolman – why have men traditionally dominated women? Two reasons: They are physically far stronger and women could not until now control their fertility. Get effective family planning in any country and the women will blossom. (Listening, Iraq, Iran, Saudi, Afghanistan?)
Sorry for the somewhat disjointed post. I’m working alone this week and don’t have time to proofread much.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 5, 2010
at 11:23 AM
James, of course I recognize you, where ever you have been is of no difference, but when you present political viewpoints, you always make the assumption that the conservative midwestern viewpoint is the majority viewpoint. I have lived throughout the United States, including the midwest and let me assure you the Red states march to slower tempo than the other regions of the country. So when you generalize using regional examples it means very little as far as the larger picture, both coasts which are more populated than your area and the majority of people who live there are far more liberal. That rather screws up your conclusions on current public opinion when you base them upon your neighbors’ reactions. We liberal types on this blog are closer to the majority, if not indeed the actual majority, than you seem to realize.
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By: no one's puppet on August 5, 2010
at 10:23 AM
No ones puppet. When I was in college I read an essay that stayed with me. A black man who grew up in Harlem wrote that as a child, he believed his race was country’s most numerous. He saw mostly black people and interaction with whites was rare. He didn’t learn the truth until he left home. I felt the same way about farmers until I left home. We tend to think our little group is most numerous, especially if everyone we know is like us.
I have been in most of our states and the Canadian provinces. I know my way around London, Paris, Geneva, and other cities. You can take the boy out of the heartland but you can’t take the heartland out of the boy.
Listen to an old T Rex song. I helped a band that looked a lot like them set up when I lived in Essex, UK. They had a mean sax like T Rex, and a similar sound. Listen to the opening guitar in Bang A Gong. It is straight from southern rock a billie- the heartland thousands of miles from its original home.
Rae the concept of adding something to make a male is what I learned in school. It is harder to create a male than a female. In the beginning the fetus is basically female. Only when the testosterzone kicks in does the fetus become male. A lot can go wrong. The timing may cause biological errors and may contribute to gender problems in boys or girls if hormones fail to flood the brain at the right time.
Intersex people illustrate that males are the model constructed from the female design. One condition features a few XY males who’s cells can not react to male hormones though they can be producing as much as any super male. They are born looking like girls, and without a genetic test the condition may not be discovered until their teens. They spend their lives as non -fertile women.
Some girls are born X0. No boys have a comparable condition to my knowledge. You can not live without an X chromosome. The Y chromosome is smaller than the X and it has fewer fail safe parts to prevent genetic problems.
Some scientists believe the Y chromosome has shrunk over millions of years as the X takes over more genetic duties.
As “Generations of Adam” implies, males were created to be the protectors and providers.When boys are rambunctious, they, like young wolves are practicing for when they will be hunters and warriors. If they manage to help create the next generation, it doesn’t matter. Males are expendable.
I don’t feel under siege. I am one of the lucky ones born with traits which let me thrive in many different situations. Many men do feel theatened though.
I agree we need to find a solution to the problem. I think as you wrote, societal and technological change has created an environment more congenial to women than men. There is considerable variablability with extremes of both sexes, but men and women are programed differently.
We are changing the culture to be more congenial to women while neglecting the genetic differences between the sexes. Until we take into account innate gender differences the problem will worsen. Maybe separate schools for boys and girls is a good start. I don’t know.
We are conducting an experiment on ourselves, and the outcome is unknown.
Lysenko may have been partly right. Tests show attention spans shortening. Watch a modern movie and compare it to one made seventy years ago.
A public television documentary discussed research done on a Swedish town near the Arctic circle. The towns people kept detailed records of births, deaths, diseases and crop yields. Researchers confirmed that longevity tends to run in families but they were also surprised.
Men who survived famine when they were approaching puberty produced grand sons who lived much longer than average. If they were well fed during that age, their grand sons tended to die earlier. They were also four times as likely to have diabetes than grand children who ancestors suffered through a time of hunger. Women were exempt.
Women who were pregnant during famine produced grand daughters who tended to die sooner and if they were well-fed, their grand daughters lived longer.
Later experiments with rats showed effects lasting six or more generations. The conclusions were that while our genes may not change much from generation to generation, the environment will induce the body to create chemicals which influence how the genes dictate to the body.
Letting estrogen make men and boys more like women is a bad idea. While it may soften some male attitudes, it puts them more at risk for some diseases, and they are less fertile.
I have not understood porn since we watched Mexican movies in the service. They were hard core and they sickened me.
I agree with Craig. Humor helps diffuse hostility.
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By: Anonymous on August 5, 2010
at 9:38 AM
That anonymous response was from me. Rae
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By: Rae on August 4, 2010
at 9:57 PM
An interesting book you mention there, poolman. Can’t say I’ve done any Kabbalah study, so this was new to me. It was written in 1600 by Isaiah Horowitz, a Jewish scholar born in Prague. It wasn’t translated to English until the mid-1990s. I guess it was written as an introduction to a larger work. It uses the “Generations of Adam,” basically Adam’s “descendants” as a framework for discussion of all kinds of ethical and moral and anthropological topics.
You can read a good portion of it on Amazon.com, if you want to. I didn’t get as far as the relationships between men and women that poolman mentions, but I did read a part in the biographical section that noted Horowitz’s need to get a second wife after his first wife died, because of the rabbinical teaching that a marital relationship was essential for full spiritual practice. I had forgotten about that aspect of orthodox / hassidic teaching.
Anyway, interesting stuff, even for an atheist. Thanks for sharing.
I forgot about pornography, too, which says something. What guy would have forgotten about that? It is the #1 use of the Internet. Good grief, guys, is that what you want out of life? Online pornography and a life-like rubber doll? Someone please explain to me how so many men choose to go that route. How can they choose a life without meaning over one with?
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By: Anonymous on August 4, 2010
at 9:55 PM
There is a book called the “Generations of Adam” which is supposed to be the written account started by Adam and referred to in Genesis 5:1 that apparently has been missing for a great deal of time. It’s translation is now available and if you read the account, women and men were equal in the beginning – and representative of their creator(s) who was both male and female.
When they left paradise, women were weaker and men eventually exploited that. That has been the trend ever since. Historic records were primarily kept by men and women were not generally included, unless it could not be avoided. Cleopatra and Queen of Sheba, to name a few, made the history books, but men were considered more important. The “myths” regarding a society of fierce women warriors has basically been shown as based in fact. Many women were leaders and influential in scriptural accounts, serving as leaders and even priests.
In today’s modern society, we have s l o w l y let women into all the areas from which they were formerly restricted. As a whole, they have always been more inclusive and preservative in nature – maybe due to the childbearing role they play.
Men have been self-serving for the most part, and have been able to exercise their preferences over society due to their physical dominance and rule. Most of the distractions in today’s society are geared toward the male psyche. Sports and entertainment, clubs and organizations were mainly geared toward men. That is – until recently. Women are now nearing equalty in opportunities and stature in many countries.
Because of that, women are beginning to experience much of the same physical ailments formerly associated with men. Cases of heart disease and stress-related ailments are on the rise in females as they do more “mens’ work.” Whether women can govern better than men is debatable. A Sarah Palin with nuke codes scares me slightly more than McCain having those same codes. I still think we need to consider the person, and not the sex. Good or evil can manipulate both at any given time, IMO.
But the video games primarily “hook” males. Like the “lost generation” in Japan, so involved in a virtual world that they cannot cope in the real one. And look to the multi-billion dollar porn industry. It hooks mostly males and becomes extremely addictive, leaving them with an unhealthy perception of women. Add to that the way we decimated the black family unit during our recent history, and you get an overall weakened male populace.
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By: poolman on August 4, 2010
at 8:28 PM
I love it that we’re all still leaving our comments. I hope Helen will post soon. She inspired me to
start my own blog as well. If you’re reading this and want to check out my latest post, it’s here:
http://www.gimmethetruth.wordpress.com
Hope to see you there. Please leave a comment and let me know what you think…Thanks!
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By: gimmethetruth on August 4, 2010
at 5:31 PM
What the heck does nature “add” to make males? That’s an odd comment, James. Thought you guys were just missing one arm on a chromosome. “Under seige” may be what it feels like, but what’s happening is that boys and men are failing, or at least they aren’t succeeding at the levels women are, and I think it would be a good idea for all of us to figure out why. Unless we want to get to the point where men are all just cannon fodder, that is. Not what I would recommend.
I don’t have very much experience with kids outright failing in school. Mine hated school, but did ok, and did better once they made it to college. As you know, I do have some opinions about education, and how it is failing all kids, but especially boys.
Who says kids that can’t sit still in little rows for hours at a time should be medicated so they can? Maybe there’s nothing wrong with the kids, there’s something wrong with school. Maybe kids should be doing things, physical things, and they learn better that way. Maybe we should be teaching biology outside, in the woods. Maybe kids should be cleaning old tires out of streams instead of filling out “worksheets” and turning them in.
And “cubicle land?” Is that really an appropriate way for people to be working? Maybe there’s something wrong with how we are doing things, not something wrong with young men and women. OK, women are better at that than men, but I can’t believe it’s good for anybody.
And being bombarded with visual stimulation? I had a friend who said twenty years ago that if virtual reality got good enough, no one would both with the real thing anymore. I poo-poo’d his comment at the time, but now I’m wondering. Maybe it isn’t good for people to watch television and play video games for hours at a time. Maybe it does something to our brains, and maybe to the brains of boys more than girls, that makes us tune out.
As for estrogen-like substances in the environment, I am aware of this and concerned about it, absolutely, but don’t think it really explains the widening achievement gap between men and women. After all, giving estrogen to men should make them more like women, and should result in a narrowing gap. Maybe there’s some mechanism I haven’t considered, though. That said, it’s another thing we have to stop doing.
Here’s what I want to know: why is it that when women move into the workforce, productivity goes up? (Average productivity, not just the total number of people producing, which is trivial.) My daughter says it’s socialization — guys are socially programmed to goof off and play, women to please, so they work harder. Will things even out when women no longer have to work so hard to prove themselves? Or, as the author of the article stated, is it that the “natural” skills women have are more in demand in the workplace today? And if so, what does that mean for us all?
Thoughts?
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By: Rae on August 4, 2010
at 3:59 PM
Rae,
If we or us cannot laugh at ourselves and our predicaments then what is there?
I mean is it not a joke about Mrs. Obama going to Spain… taking AF ONE, daughters,friends and security staff to a five star hotel outside the U.S. and booking 50 some odd rooms?
What hotel in the U.S. would not want that business. She just had a vacation in Maine last week. Went to Gulf Shores week before that and Chicago right after school was out..
So The joke is on the American people. At least Shrub just went to his ranch in Crawford.
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By: craig on August 4, 2010
at 2:51 PM
I just got home and didn’t update the site, so maybe others have responded to Professor53. He touches an other issue I don’t remember the article covered.
Yes, estrogen- like substances are polluting our environment, and schools are more girl than boy friendly. The Omaha World Herald prints a summary of the region’s top graduating students. The majority of scholarships go to girls, and more girls than boys graduate at the top of their classes. It would be interesting to study trends over the past fifty years and to compare changing school and societal environments.
Another reason males are under siege is the human baseline is female. Nature adds something to make a male, and more things can go wrong in the process.
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By: James on August 4, 2010
at 2:34 PM
James, it is good that you remind us the heartland exists, but don’t be so provincial, try to see the rest of the country from your porch once in awhile.
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By: no one's puppet on August 4, 2010
at 1:54 PM
Rae –
One more thing. My wife and I have discussed the state of the world a long time, and I mean this sincerely: I am ready to give the women a chance to run it; they couldn’t possibly do as bad a job as we have. And if they have children, so much the better; they will run it IMHO with an eye toward those children’s futures, something we, frankly, haven’t done.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 4, 2010
at 1:16 PM
Rae, my use of “regime” in the same sentence as Tea Party was nothing more than a little dig at people like Lori who use “bagger.” I think Chris Mathews was the first to call Bush’s administration a “regime, ” and Rush Limbaugh began to use it in reference to Obama to illustrate the Democrats’ disrespect of Bush. In real life, I think it is as disrespectful as bagger.
I agree “conservative” and “liberal” are anything one wants to make them, but for the purpose of this discussion, I’m using them.
A poll commissioned by James Carville etc. is only the latest sign that I am right the electorate is more conservative than the present Democratic leadership. A blog called Hot Air discusses the poll.
71% of Missouri voters voted to reject the federal mandate to buy health insurance. Other states are suing the federal government. A majority also supports Arizona’s anti -illegal immigrant law. The Democrats’ failing fortunes come not from their being too conservative, but for voters’ fear of growing deficites, future higher taxes, and intrusive government. In a word, their liberality. I do know a man who thinks Obama is too conservative, but people like that are in the minority.
We subscribe to Atlantic, so I have read the article. As a man who likes women, I wasn’t sure what I would find . Your daughter’s comment made me laugh. As Homer Simpson would say, “its funny because its true.”
I disagree with the writer’s saying data doesn’t back up the contention the absence of fathers has little influence on the ultimate success of their children. There is too much evidence to the contrary.
The author makes a good point about the changing nature of employment. Our society no longer needs the manly brawn to the degree it once did. Increasingly large numbers of jobs need verbal and negotiating skills traditionally associated with women.
This recession has destroyed or exported more traditionally male than female jobs, and women often gain the economic upper hand. More women are investing in higher education and they find the pool of elegable bachelors increasingly smaller.
This process has been happening in some black communities for years. Welfare laws and greater fear of black men than of black women has reduced the chances poor black men will find good jobs. They have created a defensive culture which often disdains higher education and thinking white.
Black women are forced to take the traditional male role and hold the family together. Biological and social roles have put men in the role of protector and women as managers of resources and creators of the home atmosphere. Now, more white women are facing the prospect that they may have to play more of what we view as the husband’s role.
I don’t think this is the end of men, nor does the author. I don’t think women will rule the board rooms and men will stay home to care for the children, not that there is anything wrong with that. I was primary care giver of our pre- school children during winter on the farm.
As the economy improves traditionally male labor jobs will return, but I think men with verbal skills and determination will be more successful than other males. Men will need to adapt to changing circumstances as women have done.
I believe our species is more comfortable with the role of male as protector (even if it is fiction sometimes) of the family because biologically, it was best for the more expendable male to die defending the hearth. It may be a fiction, but I think it will remain.
Otherwise we may turn out like Two and a Half Men, two hapless guys who have been victimized by women all of their lives. LOL.
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By: James on August 4, 2010
at 1:12 PM
Rae –
This is something I’ve been concerned about for a long time. As I am sure you know, there is considerable concern for estrogen-like substances in plastics and their effect on boys. And since the body manufactures specific receptors for hormones, it takes only a few molecules to have an effect.
In my son’s graduating high school class, ten of the top ten students were girls. Many, many of the male children I know are on Adderall and all are of course poor students. It’s really disheartening. The boys I know are all poorly motivated, many addicted to videogames, absolutely aimless. Are you familiar with the “lost boys” of Japan?
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 4, 2010
at 1:00 PM
Enough with war. From now on I refuse to support any candidate who does not take a stand against further funding for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. I’m going to let my dollars and my vote do the talking for me.
And, to turn the conversation from war, I am going to throw a bomb onto the porch.
I ambled over to the library yesterday (it’s a few blocks away) and picked up Atlantic Monthly, or as I call it Atlantic Every Once in Awhile.
And I read an article called The End of Men. Read it here: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/
Now, for the record, I like men. I’ve always worked with men, because my profession is a mostly-male one. If we are seeing the “end of men,” that makes me unhappy. And a little worried about the “opposite and equal reaction.” However, the article cites some interesting statistics.
So, I texted my sounding-board daughter, the about-to-graduate college student. Her response was “Yeah, have heard this stuff before. Lots of cultural stuff affecting everything. And anyway, I don’t care, I’m not giving mine up.”
I suggested she read the article, which she did, and she came back with a joke (post-feminism is so interesting): “Well, most women get ahead by leveraging their sexuality. That’s why attractive women succeed where plain ones don’t. And that isn’t going to work if there aren’t men in charge, so I say let’s keep them. LOL”
Anyway, for something new to talk about, why don’t we read the article and see what we think is really going on?
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By: Rae on August 4, 2010
at 11:21 AM
James, some of your comments are good, but the one about the “present regime” being less conservative than most people is actually false. If you ask people how they feel about specific issues, their responses are rather consistently more progressive than the positions taken by the administration.
The fact that they call themselves “conservative” is pretty meaningless when their positions on issues are not. The words “conservative” and “liberal” when used in the public forum are just another form of name calling. It’s bad guy-good guy, us vs. them.
I remember a study a few years ago where ordinary people were asked to read some material and then identify it. What they read was the Bill of Rights. The most commonly-selected answer (multiple choice, of course, only recently naturalized citizens can actually answer questions like this without help) was “The Communist Manifesto.” I’m sure those folks would call themselves proponents of freedom, liberty, etc., and, Jesus aside, they were rabidly anti-communist. However, if you ask them to read anything that pertains to those freedoms, they think it’s something sinister. Too hard to understand, so it must be communist? Not sure. Anyway, the words are used, not for their meaning, but for their emotional power. Semantic vs. evaluative meaning and all that. Conservative, liberal, progressive, blah, blah, blah.
I am disappointed that the administration has compromised so much on its progressive agenda, but understand that although most of the people in the country support the changes being proposed, there are powerful forces aligned against them. So our “democracy” must balance people’s wishes against corporate power, people against money. It is sad, though.
Craig, you are being silly. All presidents travel, and they travel with their families. All are treated in a manner befitting their position. Our president has canceled several trips due to the steady stream of crises he’s had to deal with. Expenditures for travel by this administration are small compared to others. Don’t get me started on the topic of how many days of “vacation” our last president took, as opposed to the number President Obama is taking.
If it bugs you so much that he gets to travel, why don’t you get on Priceline, bid on a round-trip flight, and get yourself to Spain? Hostels are cheap.
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By: Rae on August 4, 2010
at 11:07 AM
WoW..and at our expense…
$$$Mrs. Obama ,children and a few close friends go to Malaga Spain for a vacation.
Air Force One,60 rooms for security detail and those few close friends.$$$
Must be nice.
What economic downturn?$
You would have thought they could have spent their Dollars in the United States.$$$
“US First Lady Michelle Obama and her nine-year-old daughter Sasha arrived Wednesday on Spain’s Mediterranean coast for a vacation with friends at a luxury hotel where they have booked 60 rooms.
The pair and their entourage arrived at the Hotel Villa Padierna in the hills above the resort town of Marbella, a haunt for the rich and famous, aboard a cavalcade of vehicles. They had flown to Malaga on a US air force plane.
President Barack Obama, who celebrates his 49th birthday on Wednesday, has stayed behind in the United States as did the couple’s elder daughter, 12-year-old Malia, who is attending a summer camp.
The White House has described the four-day visit as “a private, mother-daughter trip with longtime family friends”.
Michelle Obama was however scheduled to meet Spain’s King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia at their summer palace on the Balearic island of Majorca, a short flight from Marbella.
Spanish media reported the visit with the Spanish royals could come this weekend.
The US First Lady will visit the city of Granada, the former seat of Moorish rule in Spain which is located some 180 kilometres (110 miles) north of Marbella, on Thursday, a spokeswoman for the municipality told AFP.
She will take in the Alhambra fortress-palace, Spain’s most-visited tourist attraction, as well the city’s cathedral and the hilltop Albaicin quarter of narrow alleyways and small squares, the spokeswoman added.
Earlier on Wednesday the hotel’s owner Ricardo Arranz told public radio RNE that the Obamas had reserved 60 rooms at the hotel for themselves, their friends and their extensive secret service detail.
“Everything is ready,” he added.
In recent days local officials have had roads re-paved, gardens tidied up and new streets lights installed while the hotel has flown a US flag at its entrance in the Obama’s honour.
Dozens of photographers and reporters have staked out the entrance to the five-star hotel, where rates for a room run from 250 euros for a room to 5,000 euros (6,500 dollars) for a villa with 24-hour butler service and private pool and garden.
An Italian palazzo-style building about five kilometres (three miles) from the coast, the hotel has five restaurants, a spa and access to three 18-hole golf courses.
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By: craig on August 4, 2010
at 8:56 AM
James –
I think your assessment of war is spot-on.
We somehow need to get these wars stopped. The Afghans don’t want us there and they are either going to make their own government or they are not; we are not going to nation-build in our own image. I say let them be, unless they begin exporting violence to our own country – then crush the military and come home – again. They’ll get the message. We need to keep our noses out of other people’s business. Ditto Iraq.
Here, the US govt has done its homework. There is no draft, so there is no energy behind an anti-war movement. The soldiers are “volunteers” and everybody conveniently ignores them and the govt can use the military as it sees fit. A state of perpetual war. It has to stop.
I think Rae’s comment about how the Chinese must be pretty amused by our missteps is right on the money, and I don’t think Obama has the plan we need. Sometimes you just have to stop digging. Today. Now.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 4, 2010
at 8:39 AM
Craig’s observation about comedic attacks on Obama and the Democrats is right on. The Light Master’s luster is fading. The average American is more conservative than our present “Regime”, and what the Tea Party helped start is spreading.
The recent revelations about conduct of our two wars held few surprises to anyone with a sense of history. Records of the other side would tell a similar tale. War is Hell, no matter how you fight, and if you go to war, you owe it to yourself to do everything to win.
If the drones Obama likes kill more people and save our soldiers’ lives, so be it. Give no quarter. Otherwise you extend the suffering and sacrifice even more lives. War should be a last resort when no other options are available.
Rae and Craig, the war dead did not give their lives to a cause, nor did anyone sacrifice them. They are merely tools of national policy, and most people give them little thought. Governments do hope their tools survive because it costs a lot of money to find and train replacements. Their lives were stolen from them through bad luck and their own mistakes.
Once in a while combatants “Reach out in the Darkness.” During WW1, some Germans began singing Christmas carols and allied troops in the trench not far away heard them. They counter sang, and soon emesaries, from both sides met. They agreed to stop fighting during the Christmas season, and some exchanged Christmas gifts. They put up and decorated a Christmas tree in No Man’s Land, and the soldiers their governments declared to be enemies played soccer.
Eventually, their leaders heard what was happening and came to investigate. Germans and British put on a good show as they fired their weapons wide of the mark until their officers left. Eventually, commanders transferred all of the offending allied soldiers far away and the war continued as it was meant to.
“Reach out in the darkness…and you may find a friend. I knew a man that I did not care for. And then one day, that man gave me a call. We sat and talked about things on our minds. And now this man, he is a friend of mine. Reach out in the darkness.”..whether it is in a fire fight, Congress… or on this message board.
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By: James on August 4, 2010
at 7:58 AM
Jean, thanks for a great read. I love learning something new. Yummy stuff.
Craig, here we go with the jokes again. Didn’t we have enough trouble when we talked about the psychology of humor? I know he scares you, that you feel white men are being marginalized (at least they aren’t enjoying their position of unearned privilege and entitlement anymore). Deal with it.
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By: Rae on August 4, 2010
at 7:29 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
While we are hanging out waiting for a new post from M&H, I thought I would chat with you a bit and stir things up regarding everybody’s favorite topics to argue about, Religion and Politics. I’m doing this mostly off the top of my head, so feel free to jump in.
Since forever, there is this truism:
“Cuius regio eius religio.” – “the religion of the region must be that of the ruler”. (Rae, please verify my Latin spelling.) Remember the famous recent quote, “I think God wants me to be president.” With a little help from Carl Rove et al, GWB was!
I have always thought it is interesting that myths and superstitions are somebody ELSE’s religion. In 2006, we took a cruise around the Aegean Sea from Istanbul, Turkey down the Greek Isles to Crete and back up to Athens. Before and after the trip, I researched quite a bit of the history of that vast region. From our hotel window in Athens we could see the Acropolis up on the hill. It was a spectacular sight but I told my ‘Boy Toy’ there is NO WAY we are gonna be able to climb up there to see it up close and personal. Surprisingly though, we did it! There was a winding path about 12 feet wide with HANDRAILS. No steps. It had a very gentle upward slope so we made it fine. But all about the Acropolis is another story.
Right now I want to talk about Crete. All around the Mediterranean, the mythology of the religions of Crete, Greece, and later Rome has tales of BULLS. They may have originated with a very ancient religion called Mithraism and its story of the Creation. If I started telling you about it, you would be convinced that I was hitting the White Zin pretty hard or smoking something funny. It’s that wild and crazy a tale, starting with a bull.
Did you ever hear about the ‘Minotaur’ on Crete? Half-bull and half-human, the story of its conception is even wilder! The ‘Minotaur’ was kept in an elaborate labyrinth. It required a yearly diet of seven boys and seven girls sent to it as tribute from Greece. Plato wrote about it.
You really ought to Google Mithraism. That religion persisted well into the Christian Era. Many of the ‘pagan’ soldiers in the ROMAN army opposing the ROMAN army of Constantine worshiped Mithra. When Constantine triumphed and became sole Emperor, Christianity became the Law of the Land. Of course, you all know that Constantine was the first Christian Roman Emperor and was responsible for the conversion from ‘paganism’ to Christianity. “Cuius regio eius religio.” – again.
Meanwhile way back when in Crete, their ‘pagan’ religion had taken an interesting turn, again about bulls. The frescos on the ruins of the walls of the palace at Knossos show a sport the people had, sort of vaulting over the horns of the bull. (You might also want to Google ‘Knossos’)
Wherever people go they always take their religious and cultural traditions with them. Eventually, the ‘bull thing’ may or may not have wound up in Spain as bull fighting. Transported by the Conquistadores of Spanish Imperialism, Mexico and other Spanish speaking countries continue the fine art (?) of bull fighting.
Ancient Crete was a highly developed Civilization. Hey, they had running water and flush toilets! Crete was also a more or less contemporary of the Ancient Egyptian Civilization. Both had a written language. The Egyptian language of the hieroglyphic “Rosetta Stone” was eventually deciphered by the Frenchman Champollin in 1822. The language of Crete is contained on clay tablets known as the “Phaestos Disc.” If and when it is deciphered it will be an enormous achievement in archeology and history. But it will take years to sort it all out.
I was going to draw a parallel between an interesting theory involving Crete, Ancient Egypt and Moses leading his people out of bondage but I’ve run out of KBs. The theory can either reconcile religion and science or tear them further apart, depending on your point of view. Maybe sometime later.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 4, 2010
at 1:55 AM
Wow, someone killed all their brain cells, better layoff the sauce.
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By: no one's puppet on August 4, 2010
at 12:56 AM
You know the honeymoon is over when the comedians start in on you!
The liberals are asking us to give Obama time.
We agree, and think 25 to life would be appropriate. -Jay Leno
America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask. -Jay
Leno
Q: Have you heard about McDonald’s’ new Obama Value Meal?
A: Order anything you like and the guy behind you has to pay for it.
-Conan O’Brien
Q: What does Barack Obama call lunch with a convicted felon?
A: A fund raiser. -Jay Leno
Q: What’s the difference between Obama’s cabinet and a penitentiary?
A: One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers and threats to society.
The other is for housing prisoners. -David Letterman
Q: If Nancy Pelosi and Obama were on a boat in the middle of the ocean and
it started to sink, who would be saved?
A: America! -Jimmy Fallon
Q: What’s the difference between Obama and his dog, Bo?
A: Bo has papers. -Jimmy Kimmel
Q: What was the most positive result of the “Cash for Clunkers” program?
A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road. -David Letterman
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By: craig on August 3, 2010
at 8:58 PM
Jim: un peu pas
Craig: They didn’t give their lives, we sacrificed them. As for Lohan, she’s another sacrifice, to the public appetite for tragedy.
Poolman: yes, but I believe we can say no and should. It is a moral imperative.
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By: Rae on August 3, 2010
at 6:39 PM
Hello everyone. I tried posting yesterday, but apparently it didn’t take – must not have liked the link I posted from Truthdig regarding Howard Zinn. This thread is getting ridiculously long. I don’t think we have had this long of a time lapse between postings, either. I pray Helen and family are okay. I don’t like not knowing anything.
As far as wars go, we will likely be at war from here on out. War on drugs, war on terror, war on illegals, etc. It is a means to an end. We’ve been trying to instigate a war with Iran for some time now. The manipulators of truth will get us there, as it is part of the overall plan. After examining the historical documents, none of these conflicts and wars have been justified – not since WWII – and even that has been proven we allowed Pearl Harbor to happen so we would get the support of the public to go to war.
I was all “gung ho” USA during the first Gulf war and impressed with all the technology we employed with the “smart” weapons. Now that we can go back and examine much of the documentation through the FOIA, it is kind of cheesy to know we baited Saddam and told him to go into Kuwait for his oil and we that would look the other way. And he believed us. That was his mistake. Believing in anything that we said was his doom. We set them up, we knock ’em down.
We have raised up our generation of warriors and given them the technology to kill without moral consequence. Video games have been a large part of the training. With this economy, we have plenty signing up.
So, though it is tragic that we are losing soldiers to battle, the greater tragedy is we are even in these countries to begin with, destroying civilians, lands, and property. And we leave permanent reminders of the damage with the type of weaponry we use. Add to that the PTSD and include the suicide rate that is WAY up in the military right now. If you really believe we should support our troops, bring them home. Give them therapy. Take care of them.
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By: poolman on August 3, 2010
at 5:31 PM
Just a reminder!!!!!!!!!
Today is election day in Michigan! Polls close @ 8 pm.
(Kansas and Missouri too. I don’t think we have any porch dwellers left from those states though.) ;(
wwwwwaving to Auntie Jean and delurker…. all! I am still in TX but doing a little GOTV work from a distance! LOL Please don’t forget to vote!
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By: lori on August 3, 2010
at 3:51 PM
Rae,
Have friends who live in St. Louis.
North and west up near ..”old St Louis”
They lived and loved it in DFW area until their jobs ran out.
They are complaining of the heat and humidity.
I was there for Christmas and it was nice and warm.
We had a White Christmas at home in Texas and rain in St Louis..Is that weird or what?
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By: craig on August 3, 2010
at 3:13 PM
Lindsay Lohan, 24, got her name and face all over the various news media because she went to jail, last week.
Justin Allen, 23, Brett Linley, 29, Matthew Weikert, 29, Justus Bartett, 27, Dave Santos, 21, Chase Stanley, 21, Jesse Reed, 26, Matthew Johnson, 21, Zachary Fisher, 24, Brandon King, 23, Christopher Goeke, 23, and Sheldon Tate, 27, are all Marines that gave their lives last week.
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By: craig on August 3, 2010
at 3:06 PM
Rae –
Yes, it’s still there. I had my first helicopter ride there a long time ago in a Bell 47 – the bubble heli you see in M.A.S.H.
Saw Doc MANY years ago at WVU Coliseum. I learned to play “Black Mountain Rag” on the guitar by watching him. Vassar was also one of my favorite musicians ever. Gone now. Goddamned cigarettes. Probably my favorite bluegrass piece of all time is “Steam Powered Aereo-plain” as played by John, Vassar, Jerry Douglas, Sam Bush, Tony Rice et al on an old TNN feed.
I expect this clip to be taken down any day for copyright infringement.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 3, 2010
at 11:58 AM
Rae –
Armed only with your wits? C’mon, now…Not since I was twenty have I considered a female armed with wits anything less formidable than an Ohio-class submarine. Remember, this ain’t my first rodeo.
Yellowstone? I love the cold. I think I am the only person in my town that can ski. Very, very interesting. My fantasy is to get snowed in Yellowstone.
Bow and boat…hmmm….gotta think about that one.
As for kicking arses, and arses in general, etc…you can figure out something about me, too. Speak any French?
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 3, 2010
at 11:20 AM
P.S. Used to make it to Ripley every July. Saw Doc Watson & Vassar Clements there. Is it still going on, Jim?
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By: Rae on August 3, 2010
at 11:10 AM
Craig – wrong. I lived in St. Louis for 3 years, and thought I was going to die the whole time. Wasn’t comfortable until December. Kept my coat in storage the whole time. Florida: my idea of hell. Yellowstone in the middle of winter: my idea of heaven.
Jim – half way between the bow and the boat.
I’m mostly nervous about crazies, which is why I am somewhat protective of my identity. I am a single woman, armed only with my wits. ;-D
As for arse-kicking, yes, of course I know. Bring it on.
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By: Rae on August 3, 2010
at 11:07 AM
Rae –
“So where do you think I’m from? Should I tell you whether I say “soda” or “pop” or “soda pop”?”
Too many variables, too few equations. If I could hear you say “about” and “Minnesota” I could come pretty close, though.
I certainly understand the “being identified” problem. My wife and I locally well-known and are politically active. Although she has had an Internet business for a long time and is quite savvy about protecting her identity, she left only one bread crumb years ago and got herself “outed” some time back by a political hack. No harm done, but really lets you know to be careful. I don’t have the temperament to have right-wingers picketing my driveway and my state has a poor sense of humor about personal assault, so we keep a low profile.
I google my name about once every two to three weeks; fortunately there is a very popular and old site that has my name in its url and all the hits go there. Last year I opened a Facebook account at the behest of one of my wife’s friends so I could see pictures of her kids; the next day I was contacted by a girl from my high school class, wondering what I was doing and wanting to “get together.” Jesus, the girls are forward these days, aren’t they? I closed the account three minutes later. No Myspace or Twitter accts either, so I understand your concern.
And, by the way, the comment that “I would tell you, but that would make it too easy to identify me” did not pass unnoticed. It tells me that you have enough at stake to be careful, and out of respect for that, I will trouble you no further on this issue.
(However, I’ll still kick your arse when I can, and expect no less from you. It’s an academic thing and a matter of pride, you know…LOL)
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 3, 2010
at 10:49 AM
Rae,
South of the Mason Dixon line.
Jim,
I agree about Iraq and the second war with Saddam.
Jean,
Interesting how you didn’t respond to my Aug 2 8:48 posting..Why not?
“Hey Jean,
You probably had nightmares after “Fail Safe” the 1964 movie about early issues dealing with a nuclear armed Russia and the possibility of not being able to recall bombers on their way to Russia. Thus leaving actor/ President Henry Fonda with the apologetic bombing of New York as a “my bad” for the mistaken bombing of Moscow.
Then there was the comedy of of Dr. Strangelove,
which also came out that same year.
Actually Strangelove had better box office results.
You throw the term “American Imperialism” around as if to compare us to WWII Japan.”
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By: craig on August 3, 2010
at 10:42 AM
Where were you when …
I watched the towers come down from my place of employment at the time, one of the mega-banks, but I wasn’t in NY. I was in a department that included bank security, so we had FBI agents beside us as we watched. Of course my first reaction was “gotta’ get the kids,” but they called me & said they were fine, don’t come. Second thought was “oh, crap, we are going to screw this up royally.” And so we did. Exactly, as you say, what they wanted. Trashed our own economy, the real source of our power and influence in the world.
The Chinese must still be laughing at how naive we were. If I believed in conspiracies I would believe the Chinese financed the operation. Of course it didn’t take that much $$, and the Saudis are certainly not in need of financial help.
I don’t think you’ll figure out what I “am,” because I’m an educational dilettante. I would tell you, but that would make it too easy to identify me, so we will leave it at this: never practiced law, never took the bar, but yes, one of the degrees was law. Although I am a bit of an educational junkie, I paid for every bit of it myself, have been self-supporting since the age of 17. So I’m not one of those stereotypical career grad students. I did work for quite a few years in a college of medicine, and my ex is an MD/PhD, so I guess I have some medicine in my background, and a couple of publications, but no degrees there. And that was long ago.
So where do you think I’m from? Should I tell you whether I say “soda” or “pop” or “soda pop”?
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By: Rae on August 3, 2010
at 9:28 AM
Rae –
“Hadn’t thought of the squandered opportunity angle.
Did that thought occur to you at the time of 9/11, or is it something that occurred to you, or something you heard, afterward?”
I thought about it as I watched the first tower fall. I tend to not be much of a panicker; helps when you fly or work in medicine – both of which I do.
My wife and I were on the phone, watching the whole thing. She said it would destroy the economy; I said no, if folks thought about it a minute, this was nothing when taken in view of the size of the American economy, but people wouldn’t think like that and would freak out – which was exactly what the enemy wanted and therefore what you should not do. (Forgive my Palin-like run-on there…)
I still remember watching Senator Byrd cooly standing on the Senate floor and lecturing about the history of the senate, while everybody else was thrashing around trying to get the floor to Just Do Something-Anything! I peripherally knew the old Klansman, and liked him. He called GWB a cowboy and hated him fiercely.
Wow. What a walk down memory lane.
Anyway, I thought about root causes and good responses and felt Bush-the-Lesser would do the wrong thing as a knee jerk, which he did. What a lost opportunity to set us on a new course…sad, just sad.
*******
BTW, I had pegged you for a lawyer. It’s kind of a hobby of mine – figuring out what folks do or their education level is. Your thought processes seemed pretty clean, but not engineer-like, so I settled on lawyer. I also try to locate accents from people I meet. Just a hobby…
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on August 3, 2010
at 6:55 AM
Puppet –
The NYT Opinion to which you directed us was well-written, but no great shakes. However, the 500 or so comments following were a terrific read. Who would guess that there could be 500 different things to say about the article?
Here’s the link to the comments:
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/philosophy-and-faith/?sort=oldest
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By: Rae on August 3, 2010
at 5:04 AM
Jim,
Hadn’t thought of the squandered opportunity angle. It might have been a difficult call for someone from former “oil country,” but how visionary! He could have gone down in history as the guy who saved the day. Instead he’s the guy who set the end in motion. I wonder what Gore might have done differently, whether he might have been able to see things differently. Who knows?
Did that thought occur to you at the time of 9/11, or is it something that occurred to you, or something you heard, afterward?
I remember thinking at the time that it wasn’t the crisis itself, but how we responded to it that would determine whether our way of life survived. So we went after Iraq. I guess people wanted blood, and blood they would have. It didn’t much matter whose, as long as they were people who weren’t like us. What a nightmare.
Rae
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By: Rae on August 3, 2010
at 4:45 AM
Craig and Rae –
It occurs to me that the hardest thing to do is to realize that you have made a mistake and admit it. I am not much on gratuitous self-deprecation, but I really think we have followed the path of many great nations and let our anger and arrogance cause us to do the wrong thing when we went adventuring in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I really believe GWB squandered of Rahm Emanuel’s proverbial crises when he reacted to 9-11. We were much richer, much more powerful then. I think he should have gone on TV and said, “We believe that our dependence on foreign oil is making us vulnerable and we are going to begin today to move away.” He would have had complete support for a $1.00/gal fuel tax, with all proceeds to go into electric research and developing our own fuel sources. This would have deprived the enemy of HIS fuel source-money.
Then I wonder if carrying out the first month’s attacks in Afghanistan on the Taliban as a warning, then withdrawing home would not have been a better option than this endless war in the “graveyard of nations” has been. (They were decimated in a very short time as you remember, but when we got down in the dirt with them, it became a lot harder.)
Iraq I believe was a total mistake – not the least of which was defeating the enemy of one loony Mahmoud I’m-a-Dinner-Jacket.
As the father of a recent high-school graduate, I am particularly offended by the damage these wars have done to the economy. There are so many unemployed young men and women that the military has a nearly unlimited supply of cannon fodder, and regularly turns down applicants. Nice little plan – no draft, so unlike Vietnam, there is nobody protesting the deaths and maiming of these “volunteers.” Yeah, right…
Thoughts?
Jim
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By: pfesser53 on August 3, 2010
at 3:32 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, Sistah Rae and Sistah no one’s puppet,
Tx for carrying the banner high as the summer begins to wind down. The rest of the Gang will drift back in soon I hope. And Margaret and Helen will too!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on August 3, 2010
at 1:20 AM
Unfortunately, you are not going to be able to click on this and see the article, but the article can be found on The New York Times web page.
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By: no one's puppet on August 2, 2010
at 10:49 PM
I thought after our recent discussions about religion and faith this might be of interest to some in our group. OPINION | August 01, 2010
The Stone: Philosophy and Faith
By GARY GUTTING
A Notre Dame professor and his students look for the link between philosophical inquiry and religious belief.
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By: no one's puppet on August 2, 2010
at 10:46 PM
Craig, are you actually arguing that I must support whatever my country does because American soldiers are involved, and otherwise I would be implicated in their deaths? That, my friend, is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever heard. (Doesn’t work well in the war crimes trials, either.)
Bradley Manning, through his brave actions, has probably helped to put an end to this unjust and foolish war in Afghanistan. That means fewer lives lost, both innocent lives and the lives of our young men and women.
I want those children back as much as anyone else does. And I understand that in our country, as in most, it is the poor kids with few options who do the “dirty work” for us all as we empire build, acquiring corporate resources and establishing global power.
I stood up on the first day of bombing in Iraq in 1991 (January 16, I remember it well), and said “this is wrong, and nothing good will come of it.” I was at a church council meeting. And I remember having an argument with a fellow at work who claimed the Iraqi people would be cheering us in the streets for bringing democracy and freedom to their country in Bush Jr’s war foolish little WMD war. I told my coworker he was a fool, that within 6 weeks we would be the enemy, that we would end up destroying the country and fighting for years before we finally left with little accomplished except bankruptcy — ours and Iraq’s. How did I know? How did you not know?
Sure there were people dancing in the streets. And there were Americans cheering the bombing in Iraq. They are pawns of their governments, and you are a pawn of yours.
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By: Rae on August 2, 2010
at 9:55 PM
Then Rae you probably also like Jonathan Pollard or Aldrich Ames.
If some 22 year old kid gives out information that leads to the killing of your neighbors child or perhaps a distant relative of yours..then I suppose you would also be still inclined to call him a “hero”?
AS to the Helicopter video. Its war. Its dirty and it has civilian casualties. As one airman said “that’s what happens when you bring children to a war.”
I’m sure those airmen thought they were legitimate targets.
No one stood up on day one 1991
of the first day of Baghdad bombings covered by CNN from their hotel room and asked how many innocents were killed. They just marveled at the
accuracy of bombings and the continued live television coverage being provided.
No one has mentioned the dancing in the streets footage when the news of the 911 towers attack reached Baghdad and GAZA. Guess they get a pass. And hey, what’s a video beheading among friends whether its a reporter or a truck driver.
Some acts as I mentioned above are intentional while others as you have portrayed are accidents of war. In war you don’t have time to land the chopper and ask for identity cards. And finally there are some questions still, as to whether there were or were not weapons at the site.
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By: craig on August 2, 2010
at 3:44 PM
Can’t answer for you, Jean, but as far as I’m concerned, the bravest guy in the room is Pvc. Bradley Manning, who believed that truth, democracy, and the lives of innocent Afghans were more important than his own freedom. That takes guts. And those are the things worth “fighting” for (although fighting is usually the easier, more self-serving option). Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc. Not empire-building and corporate profits. Not that I begrudge corporations their profits; I just wouldn’t lay my life on the line for them.
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By: Rae on August 2, 2010
at 2:37 PM
Hey Jean,
You probably had nightmares after “Fail Safe” the 1964 movie about early issues dealing with a nuclear armed Russia and the possibility of not being able to recall bombers on their way to Russia. Thus leaving actor/ President Henry Fonda with the apologetic bombing of New York as a “my bad” for the mistaken bombing of Moscow.
Then there was the comedy of of Dr. Strangelove,
which also came out that same year.
Actually Strangelove had better box office results.
You throw the term “American Imperialism” around as if to compare us to WWII Japan.
Nope Jean there will be wars and rumors of wars as long as you have the idiots like N. Korea, Iran and the Taliban. But of course with your pacifist nature, I”m sure that you would be able to sit down with these agents of hate over tea and bring us world peace.
I don’t know where you were on 911 or what your feelings were on that day. You may even be of the camp that said it was an American government scam to get us into war for oil?
And I presume you feel the same for the U.S.S.COLE bombing and the first bombing of the World Trade Center.
Hell Jean, I imagine you would give the Wikileaks guy a medal for revealing names of innocent Afghan people who have helped America prosecute their war in Afghanistan.
And if we wanted to, You could take this discussion all the way back to when a rabble got together in Philadelphia in 1775 to determine they wanted independence.
That I think would have made you a Tory?
My whole posting is just to see what you would find worth fighting for. And I’m sure you will use Americans Big Stick policies from Teddy’s days to present to make your arguments.
Just a congenial Monday morning nudge Jean.
.. And nothing personal.
Regards,
Craig
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By: craig on August 2, 2010
at 8:48 AM
Jean, thanks for the heartfelt peace epistle.
The whole bad-guys / good guys thing is so childish! News flash: everyone thinks he’s a good guy. And second news flash; the winner is who ends up being called the good guy in the history books.
People will do pretty much what they have to do to survive. It’s easy for the guy sitting on a big pile of money and stuff to roll his eyes at the guy who doesn’t play by the rules and respect his ownership rights. Of course!
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By: Rae on July 31, 2010
at 5:40 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
CA family visiting or no, ‘Boy Toy’ and I have to have our several daily flat-of-our-back rest periods, so we continue to read, read, read. Also, around the dinner table we get into some lively discussions about just about everything. We are pleased at how well informed our 15-year-old grandson is and how much he contributes to the conversation.
There is not much debate amongst us about one thing – war. About the only real discussions we have is just HOW to go about resolving conflicts and achieving a just peace. As most of you here at M&H already know, I am an avowed pacifist. I don’t think war is nice. Of late there has been much written and talked about robotic warfare. Drones and such. There is always the possibility and probability of human and/or mechanical failure. Those kinds of Oopses! can wreak havoc in all directions. Do I need remind anybody of BP and the Gulf Oil Spill?
During WWI, chemical warfare was used, (mustard gas). Many a veteran came home with life-long disabilities from that and other injuries as well as what was then called “Shell Shock”, (PTSD). WWII ushered in the Nuclear Age in terms of horrific weapons on not only the military but civilian populations. Back then we were at least honest about it and called it the”War Department”, not the “Department of Defense.” (DOD).
Then in the Vietnam War, we had the defoliant ‘Agent Orange’ to flush out where the ‘enemy’ was hiding, that more often than not included civilians. And hideous stories of Napalm Bombs. But of course, we have always been the “Good Guys” and as such, could justify using the most brutal tactics against the ”Bad Guys”. (Yeah, yeah, I know. Sadam Hussein used WMD against his own people, the “Kurds”, so naturally we had to attack the Iraqi PEOPLE in order to take HIM OUT. Sheesh!)
The civilized people of the world on most sides of the geopolitical spectrum abhor chemical, biological and nuclear warfare. So here we go again with the drones and robotic weapons that, for me, fall into the same categories. In our American Imperialism, we have just been upping the ante another notch. If we want to talk about the ethics of warfare, (an oxymoron if there ever was one!), I don’t see how we can ever continue to rationalize our way around finding new and more efficient, to say nothing of expensive, ways to kill and maim people; destroy their homes, livelihoods, and cities. No matter how many women wear chadors and veils and/or how many ‘terrorists’ we find under every rock and behind every bush. News flash!!! There aren’t nearly as many ‘terrorists’ lurking around as conservative thinking would like to make us believe in the name of ‘National Defense.’
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 31, 2010
at 2:14 AM
How are we going to avoid ‘identifying’ legal citizens who are simply going about their legal business? Verifying status takes time, even if you do take the precaution of carrying papers which other legal citizens are not likely to need at any given moment. During this time they will be detained. I’m sure you can imagine that this is going to make it hard to hold down a job, pick up the kids at day care or any other routine function of daily life.
My original opinion of this law and of your opinion still stands. I do believe that the effect of harassing legal citizens is exactly what the writers had in mind.
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By: judith on July 30, 2010
at 11:51 AM
Jean, I’m sure some areas of the country have some interesting political races this fall, but I’m not ready to focus on mine. We have a crazy woman running against Harry Reid, I’m sure you hear plenty about it as things heat up after Labor Day. Just think of me with the covers pulled up over my head, it is surreal.
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By: no one's puppet on July 30, 2010
at 9:01 AM
On the end-of-life arrangements:
A poem from Tom Beavers – an old friend of an old friend, both now long gone – Tom, having discovered incurable colon cancer, by his own hand.
********************************
Doctor Magnum
Doctor Magnum, genius wise,
Can diagnose, I so surmise,
Every mortal pain and ill,
Cure everything with one blue pill.
Every ailment known to man,
Of body or mind since time began,
Responds to Magnum’s simple cure;
His healing art is swift and sure.
When life has fruitful been, and long,
The urge to strive and win been strong,
There comes a time of failing strength
And faltering will to do, at length.
The strong man quails at thought that he
At last with broken sword shall be
All weaponless before his foes,
As fragile as a sun dried rose.
Life to me has been most kind;
No burdens would I leave behind,
For I would go as I have come,
No fanfare, grief, or throb of drum.
No sermon, song, or eulogy
When I pass to eternity,
For I my final leave would take,
And not one tiny ripple make.
Avaunt the thought that I would lie
Averse to live, afraid to die,
While others say what’s to be done,
And how my last lap should be run.
So when I sense life’s near its end,
To Magnum’s clinic I shall wend,
And cherrily say, “Doc, ease my pains;
Release me from these irksome chains.”
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By: PFesser on July 30, 2010
at 6:18 AM
Judith –
Your original post was:
” – the last time I bowed out was when some silly twit argued that “most criminals (in the area) are Latino; therefore, we should legally be able to challenge all Latinos” or words to that effect.”
Then you very helpfully found the following:
” Since the majority of illegals in AZ are Hispanic, it would seem to me that having a higher index of suspicion that Hispanic-appearing people (who have been stopped for a traffic violation, say) might be illegals would be appropriate, good police work. You know, “I suspect Hispanic-appearing people more because that’s where (figuratively speaking) the money is.” May 19th, 3:44
Not all illegals in Arizona are Hispanic, but that’s also the way to bet. It’s just police work 101. May 20
*****************
When one is bereft of a decent argument, the reflex is to pull out the trusty race card, isn’t it? As Penn Jilette said,”Well, that’s the magic word. Once you say ‘racism,’ the other side loses automatically.”
And of course, the disingenuous and fallacious inference is made that the “other side” is saying the criminality is *because* of the criminal’s race, when in fact we all know – without saying – it is only an association – but, one which can be used to *identify* the criminal.
Very important distinction, isn’t it? Being Latino doesn’t *make* you an illegal alien, but can be very important in identifying same, since the vast, vast majority of illegals in the Southwest are exactly that – Latino.
It’s a little like the silliness I observe in the major airports: TSA pulls out blue-haired old ladies for search, but lets young Muslim women in burqas (at least we *think* they are women) pass through unscathed in order to not outrage someone’s delicate sensibilities – despite the fact that, while not all Muslims are terrorists, the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.
Nonsense. Nonsense all. Thanks for the leg-up. I could be wrong, but I think you just kicked your own argument in the head.
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By: PFesser on July 30, 2010
at 6:05 AM
Ok, here’s my 2 cents for end of life stuff. The durable power of attoney is a great way to start. In the county I live in in CA, we have this thing called a POLST (don’t ask me what it stands for) but it is an additional document the physician and patient fill out.
It specifies in explicit detail what you want done when the end of the line is near. Please consider discussing with your family and MD when and if you want to withhold IV antibiotics, IV fluids, artificial breathing, tube feedings. Make sure they have a lot of dated and signed copies of it as well. Please bring it as well as ALL of the current medications to the ER as well.
Still looking forward to another M&H post, but enjoying the porch nonetheless.
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By: Dawn on July 29, 2010
at 9:59 PM
OK, Auntie Jean, assignment accepted. Here’s a free copy of the column:
http://blog.cagle.com/2010/07/28/the-msm-fooled-by-gopaganda-again/
’twas interesting, indeed.
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By: Rae on July 29, 2010
at 5:44 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, poolman and Rae,
As the postcards say, “Having a wonderful time! Wish you were here!” The CA family went off to the beach to come back later, all sunburned with sand in their shoes. ‘Boy Toy’ is taking a nap, so I want to update you on an idea.
Until M&H get back, what say we keep ourselves up on what’s going on in our local, state or regional areas.
We are all political animals here so have some perspectives on what’s going on nationally or even internationally from various news sources. However, if you are like me, more or less isolated from other parts of the country, we don’t have much of a clue about the rest of it.
In this morning’s local newspaper there was a Gene Lyons’ column entitled, “The MSM Fooled By GOPagenda – again.” Lyons’ column appears every week or so here. Bruddah poolman or Sistah Rae, could either of you track it down and put it up here for me?
I know you must be dismayed, poolman, by what the MSM is reporting about Arizona. If accurate, in the summer heat; the police, firemen and EMT are going to be kept too busy with heat exhaustion to be rounding up illegal aliens.
Regarding my idea, for example, the political climate is red hot out here for the September 18 Primary and then on to the Mid-terms and then the 2012 national elections. Blah, blah, blah. An awful lot of money is being spent on TV and newspaper ads. Until and/or if we can get some kind of campaign finance reforms enacted, that’s the way it’s gonna be.
Out here there is a quaint custom. Billboards are against local law. Fortunately!!! But candidates are permitted to put up signs on private property. So you can just imagine how peppered the landscape is with political signs from little ones to big ones. There is one good thing though. There is also a local law that they have to be taken down IMMEDIATELY THE NEXT DAY after whichever election.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 29, 2010
at 5:25 PM
Sometimes no news is good news. But when you need news, who do you turn to? Today you can access the internet and get a broader perspective on the issues. You can learn of things that are kept out of the public realm. For now, anyway. We’ll see how long that lasts. Efforts are underway to quash that freedom too.
Like this article regarding Iran’s nuclear program. You won’t get this information or perspective from any mainstream media outlet. Most Americans only trust the mainstream media. Sad. Very sad. Much more sinister and destructive than terrorism, IMO.
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By: poolman on July 29, 2010
at 1:35 PM
Rae on July 28, 2010 at 2:41 PM
There are two forms that go along with the will, A Durable Power of Attorney for Financial decisions and a Health Care Proxy. Our son is third after my wife and I who are the first named for each other. It gets into a lot of paper work but all the bases are covered. My wife and I are the end of the line as far as our respective families are concerned but the will is necessary in case anyone else comes snooping along that claims to be a relative.
Our son, our physician, our attorney, our neighbors and various friends are well aware of our wishes. They are not a surprise to anyone.
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By: jsri on July 28, 2010
at 8:15 PM
Hi all –
re: funerals. I thought of having my body buried, but the slow decay doesn’t seem that appealing, so I told my wife I want to be burned up. That appeals to a sense of cleanliness and finality.
Speaking of getting bruied, anybody ever read “The Cremation of Sam McGhee?” Probably one of my three favorite poems of all time. There is a stellar rendition on YouTube…let’s see here…Here it is.
I don’t usually evangelize this kind of stuff, but if you have five minutes to watch it, I guarantee you will think it is pretty cool.
My buddy Johnny Flynn was a wild hippie newspaperman who woke up with a leaking aortic aneurysm one night. When he knew he was going to die he made us promise to burn him up and put the following line on his tombstone: God Rest His Soul; He Was a Tootsie Roll, But He’s a Dead Cat Just the Same. We did it. He wouldn’t tell us where it came from, but I found it. It’s part of a John Prine song called, “Living in the Future.”
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?cmns:1:./temp/~ammem_Qeri::
Sure miss old John…
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 28, 2010
at 8:12 PM
Just sitting here watching “Morgan Freeman’s Through the Wormhole” about M theory on the Science channel, interesting. I tend to understand theoretical physics pretty well as long as it is well explained, it does tend to have a relationship to our recent discussions, does it answer the question, is there a God? I’d have to answer, no, but qualify that to, unless you want there to be a God.
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By: no one's puppet on July 28, 2010
at 5:08 PM
Pureness of heart is more important than denomination or sect. It is the ultimate goal of all “good” religions. We always look outward for God, when we should focus inward. The essence of all is from within. – similar to an operating system in a computer.
We read in the OT that Enoch was taken up to heaven without dying physically to be with God, since he so pleased Him. That was before any organized religion existed. So it wasn’t related to how many Hail Marys he repeated, whether he was baptized – sprinkled or immersed, if he knelt facing a certain direction at a certain time of day, or whether he kept the Sabbath or the feasts, burned incense or sacrifices. It hasn’t changed from God’s perspective. Man, however, has added plenty of requirements, qualifications, practices, and limits to this creator/created relationship. And anytime you get man’s meddling and interpretation… well just look at our world today. Physical evidence that has been discovered confirming biblical truths has been systematically censored.
Reincarnation does actually occur within the spirit realm, despite what many western religions profess. As soon as you profess a belief in the spiritual, you have confirmed the existence of the supernatural. We are told some spirits are destined to roam this earthly plain up until its renewal. That they often inhabit living beings is no surprise, and in no way contradicts scripture.
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By: poolman on July 28, 2010
at 4:04 PM
jsri, your comment reminded me of something everyone should know —
You, of course, made sure your son knows about your wish to be cremated, so you aren’t relying on your will.
That is good, because your lawyer should have told you that wishes for service, cremation, etc. that you put in your will have no effect. Keep in mind that people aren’t looking at your will in the few days following your death — that’s done quite a bit later. At least you hope that isn’t what they’re worrying about.
Another thing people often specify in their wills is guardianship for their minor children. Parents’ wishes will be considered (because courts assume they have their children’s best interests in mind), but what you specify in a will isn’t binding on anyone.
It’s been awhile since law school, so maybe I’m not current on this stuff, but I suspect that hundreds of years of estate law tradition probably hasn’t changed significantly in the last couple of decades. Any lawyers on the porch to verify or refute this?
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By: Rae on July 28, 2010
at 2:41 PM
My husband did me one better than that jsri, he pre purchased my cremation, three years ago, long enough, so I no longer joke, that he had an ulterior motive. He also paid for my ashes to be buried with him and his first wife, but I’ve told my children, they can divide the ashes and spread them or whatever gives them comfort if they wish.
My father told my mother, that he specifically didn’t want any hymns at his funeral, because our church’s soprano’s voice hadn’t improved with age and he didn’t want his mourners to have to endure her screeching. But his plan was ruined when she called my mother to donate her services, because she’d alway liked and admired my father so much, so she said. My mother did the right thing and thanked her and accepted her “gift,” sometimes the right thing isn’t what we want. My father would have be proud of mother and done the same thing if he had been the survivor.
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By: no one's puppet on July 28, 2010
at 2:30 PM
judith on July 28, 2010 at 11:49 AM
Your description of the church service for your mother’s funeral evoked a similar response because my experience was so much like yours. In fact, the priest obviously had no idea who she was and some of his comments sounded like they came from a Hollywood script.
I think it is a much better experience for all concerned to have all the details worked out ahead of time and not leave it up to someone else to make such decisions. So, my wife and I recently updated our wills with the stipulation that we be cremated and that there will be no formal religious service. That way, people can do whatever makes them comfortable in that regard. At the same time we updated our health care and financial proxies so there will no question as to what we want.
Our son, who is our only heir knows our wishes and is in agreement as is our physician and our lawyer and since there is no religious service involved that question is not debatable. What people might have to say after we are gone is of no consequence because we will not be around to hear it. However, there is no question that it will all be good.
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By: jsri on July 28, 2010
at 12:49 PM
Hello porch dwellers,
I’ve been enjoying the day to day reading of all of your posts. It’s interesting how some topics catch my interest and others not so much. But, that’s the way of the future…..learned from the past. Discern what is important to you and delve into it.
The topic of reincarnation has been interesting.
If it was to be a bug–I’d want to be a flying bug.
Rae, your suggestion of discussing Eastern religions is well taken. I’ve always been intrigued by the positive force that Buddhism left with me after a study of a statue in a local Asian Art museum. It was the “aha” moment of the statue’s face that impressed me with the enlightenment of always moving forward, expressing optimism and hope.
Judith, I really appreciated your personal note on the “inner workings” of how siblings conduct the memorials for their parents. I recently received a letter from a friend who stated how she and her husband were left to “organize and execute” the memorial–no other siblings could or would.
She told me that she and her husband did it “their way”. And your point of understanding your sister’s need to “keep up appearances” for her friends was revealing.
I often wonder what people will do or say after I’m gone. I’ve been told by SO that he wants polka dot dresses on his closest friends at his memorial. And he’s serious. That’s when I realize that what we say or do after our loved ones pass away can only be truly felt within one’s own heart in their own way. Your sister’s need to choose the “favorite hyms” was her way of coping.
I love the old hymns from my youth.
One of my favorites? “Great is Thy Faithfulness”
Have a great rest of the morning everyone!
VGman
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By: vgman on July 28, 2010
at 12:24 PM
The funeral for my mother was arranged by my sister in the sister’s personal church venue. Reading the hymnal while waiting for the service to start, I was blown away by some of the unfamiliar titles. “Fountains of Blood”, anyone? and similar grisly images. Made me wonder just what went on normally. (But not enough to make me want to come back and find out). I don’t know if the difference is the type of church or the intervening years.
I was also highly amused to find the service was peppered with my mother’s ‘favorite hymns’. She hadn’t been to church in decades, and, at best, attended Christmas, Easter and the required benchmark ceremonies that we all had to be at, such as baptism & confirmation. The closest my sister got was “Down By The Riverside”, which my mother genuinely loved in its Dixieland form. Needless to say, this wasn’t the version we heard. Too bad – she’d have loved it.
Apparently, it’s required in certain communities that people have favorite hymns, and my sister didn’t want to admit to her friends that our mother was non-compliant. I didn’t comment or make any fuss because there’s really no point. But it’s sort of weird.
Good news (IMHO) on the AZ decision!
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By: judith on July 28, 2010
at 11:49 AM
Rae,
As to the music…
I prefer the old hymns as you recalled..
I’ve been to some of these Mega churches
with slick semi Rock music with laser lights and big screens… it’s kinda a turn off for me personally.
While others I think come and want to be entertained for the 1-2 hours they are in “Gods”
house.
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By: craig on July 28, 2010
at 8:35 AM
@Puppet on reincarnation and universal health care — ditto that.
@Craig — apostles write epistles. Epistula apostolorum. (At last, a justification for 5 years of Latin.)
We should all have a discussion of Eastern religions some day. NPR’s Interfaith Voices had an interesting program on the rise of Confucianism in China, which would be a fun topic for us. And good old Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, Taoism, etc. We’re all so focused on the Abrahamic religions here in the West, we think they’re synonymous with “religion.” Let’s all get our minds around something completely different and see what we learn.
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By: Rae on July 28, 2010
at 8:27 AM
Looks like the old girls might of rolled off the battleship! Too bad. They were funny as hell.
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By: Hector on July 28, 2010
at 6:54 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Greytdog,
Today I was making ‘leis’ with CNN on. They had a little piece you might be interested in. We all use Wikipedia sometimes, right? Do you know where it got its name? In the Hawaiian language, “Wiki” means “quick” or “fast”. There is a bus at HNL that takes passengers between the international terminal and the inter-island terminal called “ The Wiki-Wiki”. Its not really that ‘wiki’ but it beats walking, schlepping your bags along and it’s free. There are also some 7/11 type stores called “Wiki Markets.”
For the uninitiated, I want to tell you about the ‘Fine Art of Lei Making’. I’m sure you have seen pictures of people out here laden down, up to their ears with flower garlands. It is customary to greet people coming to the islands with a ‘lei’. But it is not automatic. You have to know somebody who cares. If you are on a tour, for a price, someone will ‘lei’ you at the airport or the harbor. The ‘leis’ are fairly expensive since they are always fresh and hand made.
We have some born-and-raised-on-the-island-friends who taught me this Fine Art years ago. The ‘leis’ can become incredibly intricate; depending on what kind of flowers, vines, leaves, seeds, etc., are used. I am the proud possessor of my BA and MA in ‘Lei Making’ but I won’t get my PhD until I can get someone to climb up in the mountains and find me some wild ‘Maile’ vines. To my knowledge, no one has been able to cultivate them. The ‘Maile’ is very fragrant and used mostly for formal occasions such as weddings and special ceremonies. Also they are usually for men. They are worn around the neck and often fall open down to the knees. (If you are interested, you could Google ‘Maile Leis’ and learn all about them. Also Ti plants.)
We will buy an orchid or plumeria (frangipangi) lei for our DIL because, although we have some orchid plants, we don’t have the small cymbidium orchids commonly used for ’leis’. Also we don’t have enough plumeria for a ‘lei’’ in our Pitiful Little Patch, (PLP). It takes quite a few of the small flowers to make a ‘lei’. Of course, I could filch some from neighbors’ yards, but that wouldn’t be nice.
I made two Ti leaf ‘leis’ for our son and grandson. These Ti leaves, come from our PLP and are emerald green plants halfway between a bush and a tree. (There are also burgundy red and variegated varieties.) They have many uses; in flower arranging, decorations and believe it or not, in cooking!
It takes 6 leaves, each about 2½ feet long for each ‘lei’. I cut each leaf in half and cut out the spine. Then, I kid you not, I steam iron them! That breaks down the fibers, making them easier to twist. Two twisted leaves are again twisted together to form a rope about a yard long. The ends are woven together in the rope and finally tied together to form the ‘lei’. Voila! A Ti leaf ‘lei’!
They are kept refrigerated until we leave for the airport’ when I will put one golden yellow hibiscus flower from our plants out front in each ‘lei’ where they are tied together.
When our family arrives, the traditional greeting is to say, “Aloha! Welcome to Hawaii!” Give each loved one a big hug and kiss and drape the ‘lei’ around his/her neck. It is a lovely tradition, dontcha think?
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
P. S. Sistah Greytdog, how are your frangipangi doing?
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 28, 2010
at 12:28 AM
A bug Jean? I’d be good for sure. And probably look over my shoulder a lot. lol
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By: no one's puppet on July 27, 2010
at 11:26 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Sistah no one’s puppet,
Here is my little tongue in cheek comment on reincarnation since I really don’t know much about it formally. It is my understanding that if you are good, in the next life you will come back in a higher form. (Rich, perpetually young and beautiful?) Or if you are bad you could come back as a bug.
Or even an inanimate object. (Animism but not animatism?) Do you remember the little poem I put up a while back:
“I wish I wuz a little rock, a sittin’ on a hill……..”
I think you are right about everyone having universal healthcare – to stave off as long as possible coming back as a bug.
Aloha! 🙂 Namaste.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 27, 2010
at 9:04 PM
Rae, I didn’t take you seriously, but if I was inventing a religion it would probably be reincarnation, what could be more fair? If we all knew we be rewarded for goodness and punished in exactly the same way we did an injustice, we’d probably be very moral. And I would predict universal healthcare, no problem, for everyone.
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By: no one's puppet on July 27, 2010
at 7:28 PM
Hey, puppet, it was intended as irony. I remember deciding one day to start liking “Chinese food” (I was a kid), and that worked ok, but I’m afraid these decisions to start believing this or that may work for a day, but the beliefs don’t stay put. I’m unfortunately for me a died-in-the-wool empiricist. Unfortunate, because I’ve heard more than a few times that I “think like a man” and “think too much.” Humph.
Craig, I think Auntie Jean’s point was that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Islam is way behind Christianity in the brutality department. You know that Islam was the bright light during what we call the Dark Ages, right? That Islam at one time was inclusive and tolerant, that Jews and Christians lived in Islamic cities without serious concerns about safety?
About fundamentalism — interesting notion. It’s a fairly new idea, a strict adherence to a set of basic beliefs, religious or otherwise, usually in response to a perceived compromise with modern social or political life (thanks Wikipedia).
“Right” thinking is always a bit of a problem. In my little town, there is a landmark (I’ll have to be vague here or you will be able to track me down) that was long painted white. A group of concerned citizens decided to raise funds to return it to its “proper” color, and they succeeded — the landmark is now painted a different color. The problem is that the “proper” color is not very attractive, and it’s really just the color most of these people remember from their childhoods. It certainly isn’t the “original” color.
Fundamentalism strikes me the same way. If you are a Christian arguing for a return to the “original” liturgy, how far back do you go? My experience is that what people really want is a return to what they grew up with. And hymns! Good heavens — have you ever been involved in a discussion of church music? Everyone over 40 wants “traditional” music, but what they mean is “the hymns we sang in my church when I was a child.”
We people are quite entertaining.
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By: Rae on July 27, 2010
at 4:20 PM
Ms.Jean,
I guess I didn’t read your apostle concerning religions of the world Part I.
I don’t know of any “organized” religion that can raise its head and say we have been a pure and forgiving one.
Obviously Rome and the Holy Catholic church,
The Reformation,King Henry’s church and most any other eastern religions have had their horrors unleashed on those not of their faith at one time or another.
But if I read you correctly, you saying that the Islamic faith should get a pass because they are behind us by a couple of centuries? You also say that fundamentalist Christianity is in that same boat.
By which “fundamentalist” Christian faith do you recognize as the backward one? Is that a organized group that may have ties or connection to the Republican party by chance?
I guess there are many fundamentalists churches.
That would include almost any which are trying to return to their original liturgy, traditions and orordinances.
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By: craig on July 27, 2010
at 3:37 PM
Rae, thanks for the suggestion, but I’ll wait for concrete evidence, for you see, I am incapable of belief, I prefer to know. Now I am going to share a personal experience that contradicts almost everything I have said, up until now. During my lifetime I had from time to time, psychic experiences, particularly concerning one of my nieces. My son, then a teenager and easy embarrassed, challenged me, by saying, I’d had lucky guesses about her, and he would be just as likely to make a correct prediction about her. So since she was pregnant at the time, my son and I both wrote down whatever came to mind about her impeding birth. I had a rather long list of things written down, baby’s gender, size, etc, when I suddenly realized she was giving birth right then, so I wrote down the time and told my son, she was giving birth. Which he didn’t believe and I didn’t have to believe, but I knew what I said was correct (don’t ask me to explain what I mean by knowing, but when that feeling comes over me, I know it). So the next morning I took my reluctant son, fearful I would embarrass him to the OB unit of the hospital and asked for her room number. My son became a believer, when the nurse gave me the room number. And really became a believer when my niece confirmed the time of the baby’s birth, even asks me, as do his sisters, if I have any predictions, which I rarely have. Oh of course I can spout some predictions based on knowledge of the facts, but that kind of know with every fiber of my being feeling can’t be prompted. So if that is the feeling religious believers have, all I can say is good for them, and I am sorry that kind of certainty about spirituality, creation, God or gods, eludes me
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By: no one's puppet on July 27, 2010
at 11:39 AM
Rae,
I know you meant 70×7
When Peter came to Jesus he asked how many times should I forgive my brother who has sinned against me? Seven times?
Jesus said seventy times seven.
Matthew 18:15
“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
Rae..you have showed me my fault.
Matthew 18:16
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
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By: craig on July 27, 2010
at 10:12 AM
P.S. — never told my kids there was an Easter Bunny or a Santa. They insisted on believing in Santa anyway (“No, there’s no Santa Claus.” “Yes there is.” “No, it’s just a fairy tale.” “No it isn’t and I’m not going to listen to you.”) Pretty funny, actually.
So the parking lot for my kids was — well, there are some things you just can’t do anything about, so don’t waste time worrying about it. Just make sure it really IS something you can’t do anything about. A sort of “play the hand you’re dealt as well as you can” philosophy. It worked out ok.
I do admit to the power of myth in teaching lessons, however. I took my kids to church, and when questioned about it by my brother, told him they needed to learn a moral code, so why not there? A collection of myths that tell a moral story — can’t get much more powerful than that. Yes, it enforces cultural norms, some of which you might not like, but you can always tweak. Well, as long as you don’t have some crazy doctrinal inerrancy thing going on.
All cultures have their myths and norms; the odd thing about us is that we insist that the myths are TRUE, and enforce a code of BELIEF as well as a normative code. Sort of like Russian communism.
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By: Rae on July 27, 2010
at 8:56 AM
Porch dwellers: I apologize if I gave the impression that I thought you weren’t “smart enough” for abstract conversation. What I meant was that most people sitting out on the porch would rather be talking about the lake or the sky than some abstract blah blah blah. I just returned from a walk to Lake Michigan myself, and didn’t think about natural selection once.
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By: Rae on July 27, 2010
at 8:41 AM
Rae said –
“Now explain by what mechanism something in the supernatural world (an idea, no less — god) might influence a natural process, i.e., natural selection.”
It doesn’t influence in a real sense, because it doesn’t exist.
The IDEA exists however, albeit only in the human mind. Humans are always imagining things that don’t exist in reality – and those “things” have utility. Tell me your children don’t get happiness from the easter bunny and Santa. In the here and now they are happy, and it makes YOU happy. Of course they are eventually disappointed, but that’s the price you pay for joy now.
Adults have their easter bunnies, too – and for those who are stressed by their impotence during life and the certainty of their own extinction at the end, a god or two can be very comforting, allowing those (former) periods of stress to be utilized profitably elsewhere. Hopefully, they are not disappointed during life, so the little lies may not be that important – so long as they don’t try to force their little lies on others.
“Maybe what you’re saying is that for all the things you can’t influence, there’s a utility in not attempting to influence them, so god ends up being a sort of “parking lot” for concerns that cannot be addressed. That the selection value is that you don’t spend processing time and physical effort on what cannot be changed.”
Precisely.
And I wouldn’t worry too much about the “porch” – another abstract by the way that does not exist, but has utility. These folks are plenty smart enough to handle anything we dish out.
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 27, 2010
at 8:15 AM
NOP and Lori –
I like reincarnation, because I don’t like the idea of dying (how, after all, can the world continue without me?) and because I really, really want a do-over. So this morning I decided to start believing in it.
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By: Rae on July 27, 2010
at 6:59 AM
OK, Jim. We’ve established that by “natural,” you mean scientifically knowable, “real” in the scientific sense. Now explain by what mechanism something in the supernatural world (an idea, no less — god) might influence a natural process, i.e., natural selection.
As I said before, I understand the selection value of heuristic thinking. The ability to make quick decisions is probably more important than accuracy, and you can’t spend your adult (i.e., breeding and child-rearing) years building models of how the world works, as children do. The utility of the models you built as a child will presumably influence your effectiveness in the breeding-rearing world, and thus the survival of your genes. So it helps to have good, simple, easy-to-apply “theories” of how the world works. I think you’re saying that belief in the supernatural is one of these. If so, you end up making an argument that sounds a lot like a scientist’s argument for one model over another, and that leads you … well, you can figure that out.
Maybe what you’re saying is that for all the things you can’t influence, there’s a utility in not attempting to influence them, so god ends up being a sort of “parking lot” for concerns that cannot be addressed. That the selection value is that you don’t spend processing time and physical effort on what cannot be changed.
My last comment on this topic. It’s too abstract for polite company, certainly porch company.
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By: Rae on July 27, 2010
at 6:54 AM
Rae –
I’m having a little trouble getting your meaning, but here’s what natural and supernatural mean to me.
For natural events: 1) there is a clear correlation between cause and effect, 2) it is repeatable to a very high degree and 3) it doesn’t require some special condition that has no discernible bearing on the situation otherwise (faith, full moon, &c.) 4) probably most importantly, the hypotheses are refutable, that is you can test them to see if they are true.
The supernatural 1) has no correlation between cause and effect. God said it and it happened. How does that work? 2)It is not repeatable. Sometimes prayer works, sometimes not – usually to about the 50% mark. 3)You have to do something special to make it work. You must have faith; you must sacrifice a fatted cow or whatever it was, and if it doesn’t work, then you didn’t do it right; it’s not god’s fault. 4) The supernatural does not lend itself readily to being refuted, and those who believe in the supernatural are not swayed by that fact, saying “god’s ways are mysterious; you have to have faith; not everything lends itself to be tested – all of which makes it impossible to get the very proof that would support the case for the supernatural’s existence.
I think a lot about Clarke’s hypothesis about advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic. That is true; for many years people thought radio waves were in that unknowable realm, but there was a big difference: you could do the experiments and they worked every time. Not so the supernatural.
Are there things out there we have never dreamed of? I think so. But one thing is for sure: there will be an explanation, and it won’t involve magic.
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By: PFesser53 on July 27, 2010
at 5:01 AM
Oh I wanted to comment on your Post NOP.
you mentioned: I must admit I have a certain attraction towards reincarnation, because it seems fair, but from everything I know, not enough people have lived in the past to account for all the humans presently on earth.
….perhaps there is (human-souls) life on other planets and universes ? If there is reincarnation I am sure souls aren’t just bound to the planet earth. Just a thought.. 😉
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By: lori on July 27, 2010
at 4:59 AM
NOP, I agree 100 percent about the Repubs. Their tactics worked for the short run but eventually fear and smear wears thin.
Talea, I agree it is a beautiful word/meaning.
Auntie Jean LOL yes TY = thank you, tx works too! In the world of texting anything goes as long as you get your point across quickly. Back in the day when text messaging was more expensive (you paid by the text) and the phones were more difficult to use (no key boards) the kids devised a type of “short hand” to over come those obstacles. That is where a lot of those abbreviations came from. Others have their origins from the old inter-net chat rooms.
Here are a few more.
❤ = love, heart
ILY = I love you
ttul= talk to you later
Speaking of my children… I am off to visit my oldest who is doing an internship in Dallas for the summer. I've been missing her like crazy and can't wait to get my hands on her!
Enjoy your visit with your son and his family! Hug them tight!
A reminder to the Michigander's… Don't forget to vote! hmmmmmm That reminds me of one of our porch family, she was a Michigan artist, lived in Kalamazoo I think?, was undergoing chemo… What was her name? We haven't seen her in a while, hope she is doing ok.. I must visit her studio when I get home!
Keep the home fires burnin friends.. ❤
namaste
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By: lori on July 27, 2010
at 4:23 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, lori, poolman, craig and Rae,
Sistah lori, does “ty” = thank you? How about “tx”= thanks? We’re gearing up for our CA son and family’s arrival and I have to be ready to speak our grandson’s language. Having recently returned from your trip to France, you can identify with them about now. Getting the cat ready for the ‘Kitty Motel’ and taking care of a million last minute details.
Then there is the mad rush to the airport on the freeways, parking the car in the long term parking garage, checking in, security and then wait……… Well, theirs is only about a 5½ hour flight but I’m sure they will be a little tuckered out and jet lagged when they get here. We will “lei” them inside baggage claim and then we will all be ready to go for a wonderful time!
Bruddah poolman, I do admire your unshakable faith. If I have said it once I’ve said it a hunnert times, “Don’t run with scissors!’ And I have also said a hunnert times, “There is a VAST difference between what I believe is INNATE SPIRITUALITY and ORGANIZED RELIGION”. ‘Innate’ and ‘hardwired’ are only hair-splitting semantics. Where do allegories fit in as a teaching tool in the the picture between evolution, religion and philosophy? I am a casuist. I don’t know.
Bruddah, craig, either you hadn’t yet joined M&H’s porch way back when I was giving my history lessons on the origins of Islam or you weren’t paying attention. Islam is running about 500-600 years behind its older brother, Christianity and has been following in his footsteps ever since. You have heard of Joan of Arc and her battlefield triumphs, haven’t you? That is until, among her other crimes and misdemeanors, officialdom had her physically examined regarding the state of her virginity and burned her at the stake. Then there were all them witches they burned in Salem, Massachusetts. Modern Islam is catching up to its older sibling Christianity though, especially in terms of warfare. Both Fundamentalist Islam and Fundamentalist Christianity would like to take a few giant steps back a millennium or so if they could get away with it.
Sistah Rae, you are turning out to be a great new source here on the porch for tracking down stuff on the inter-net. I’ll keep that in mind since I’m not very good at it. I’m not above a little name-dropping from time to time. Michael Crichton was a neighbor here on Kauai for a while. His novels are entertaining works of science fiction. However like “Frankenstein” and “Star Trek” he played fast and loose with scientific data. But he made a ton of money and became something of a pop culture celebrity.
“Jurassic Park” was filmed here on Kauai along with many other movies. There are actually “Movie Tour” busses that take tourists around to all the sites where famous movies were made. Such as “South Pacific”, “King Kong”, a John Wayne movie I can’t remember the name of and of course the ultra-famous Elvis
Presley’s “Blue Hawaii.”
Aloha! Namaste, Shalom and Peace.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 27, 2010
at 2:08 AM
Rae, by natural selection, are you referring to Darwinian natural selection? If so, I would agree, there is no advantage to inheriting a “belief” gene. Since natural selection is all about surviving long enough to procreate and in the case of human beings living long enough to ensure the survival of your offspring, so they can also reproduce. How would a belief gene attract a mate? Really not the same thing as a 70% waist to hip ratio, signifying good health and fertility is it?
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By: no one's puppet on July 26, 2010
at 11:01 PM
Well, Jim, I’m afraid I didn’t communicate my point very well. I will try again tomorrow maybe (too tired now), and see what you think. My point is a semantic one.
Oh, heck, let’s try this: you say people believe in the “supernatural,” but only their version of the supernatural. What does that mean, exactly? Does it mean that they believe the rules of the natural world are occasionally suspended, but only in specific cases that are allowed by …. what? Convention? What does ‘supernatural’ mean in that sentence? Usually, supernatural is the not real; natural is the real. In that context, it seems to mean that I can believe the not real is real in a very specific way, and that I deny the validity of another person’s doing the same in a different specific way. Now show me how the “real” world of natural selection could select for a specific false belief.
And then we have the problem of the religious person’s use of the world natural — he maintains that “god,” which you might call supernatural is in fact part of the natural world, and that you are using the word ‘natural’ to describe what would be better described as ‘subnatural.’
Being all about words, and not about anything in the real world, it is difficult to understand how natural selection could be operating. By what mechanism? (Yes, I know how natural selection works – I am asking you to tell me by what mechanism it works in this situation.)
I doubt that was any clearer, but had to give it a try.
Puppet, we are accustomed to “belief” (dogma) being part of religion, because it is so among the religions prevalent in our culture, but belief isn’t part of every religion, at least not in the same sense. Many religions are based in practice rather than belief. And many are based in morality. One great example in our own culture is the Universalist/Unitarian church. “That seems like morality, not religion” gives too narrow a definition to religion, I think.
Hey, Craig, wasn’t it seventy-seven times? Apparently the gap between what we are and what we are called to be is pretty darned wide. Also, just for the record, if anyone can name a Western religious tradition that treats women and men equally, I’d like to hear it. Islam has no corner on misogyny.
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By: Rae on July 26, 2010
at 10:14 PM
Rae said:
“As for belief in the supernatural as “hard-wired,” it’s an odd thought. It presupposes a genetic awareness of the distinction between natural and supernatural, which seems unlikely.”
No, I don’t think so. I see it as typical evolution: whatever makes one more adaptive is passed on. A god may allow one to ignore certain stressors (the Big Guy is taking care of that) and focus on one of many competing threats, which could be adaptive behavior. The idea of a genetic awareness would be sort of teleological and I don’t see that.
“Which of those explanations turn out to be natural and supernatural kind of changes with our understanding of the world.”
I don’t think so there, either – at least not in the modern day. We have a very well worked-out method – “scientific method”- which if followed, guarantees a non-supernatural explanation or none at all. (although I’m reminded of Arthur C. Clarke’s comment about how “sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”)
“Quantuum explanations have only recently moved from the supernatural to natural category, don’t you think?”
Quantum mechanics was never explained magically – although the math is pretty close to magic. I have never got the quantum stuff. When things move into realms such that I have no reference in real life or even imagination, I’m stuck. The math seems to work, but how this all fits together is well above my pay grade. Seems like magic to me, that’s for sure.
“And I suspect that many people think of god as something part of the natural world.”
Gods as a concept are interesting, but not necessary to the natural world. My biggest problem is that they inject irrationality into life, which is hard enough to understand as it is. I want to understand the world I live in and they are constantly blocking my way.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 26, 2010
at 8:09 PM
Isn’t the Golden Rule more about morality than about religious belief? I can’t argue for religion vs atheism or visa versa, because I have no proof one way or the other. But morality I can, I’m all for it. I must admit I have a certain attraction towards reincarnation, because it seems fair, but from everything I know, not enough people have lived in the past to account for all the humans presently on earth.
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By: no one's puppet on July 26, 2010
at 6:59 PM
Anonymous,
I said I would only turn the cheek so many times.
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By: craig on July 26, 2010
at 5:53 PM
If anyone is suggesting I’ve been posting for the last several days–much less today–I have not. I have one avatar and I always post under Donna. Nice try, whoever “Anonymous” at 3:28 is.
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By: Donna on July 26, 2010
at 4:50 PM
OK Donna. Whatever you say.
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By: Anonymous on July 26, 2010
at 3:28 PM
Craig on July 26, 2010 at 2:13 PM
You noted, “I guess the tenets of the golden rule is at the core of my faith, and that is to treat any one with the same respect and treatment as I would like to be treated.”
That’s an odd statement coming from you who delights in denigrating people who disagree with you. Your comments are as nasty as any seen on this site.
I think that’s called hypocrisy
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By: Anonymous on July 26, 2010
at 3:09 PM
My faith resides in my heart.
I’m sure we’re tested sometimes and we don’t even know it.
Some need a physical structure to commune with their God.
Some also need a intersession by another who is appointed or ordained to be a communicator and or spokes person for their God.
I for the longest time have held that I do not need a roof,steeple or person to intercede for me.
But that aside. I allow that my God is no greater than any other persons God or faith.
I cannot in good heart condemn any other’s faith just because it does not conform to my beliefs.
Basically what ever floats your boat and makes you a happy camper.
I guess the tenets of the golden rule is at the core of my faith, and that is to treat any one with the same respect and treatment as I would like to be treated. But I can only turn my cheek perhaps two times before I’m walking away.
But before I close I do have to question Islamic
religious laws that allow for the barbaric treatment of women. If there is a supreme being for that sort of law..I question the tenets of peace that supposedly are are the basis of their faith.
That also goes for the brutal beheading of captives.
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By: craig on July 26, 2010
at 2:13 PM
oops. Sorry.
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By: Rae on July 26, 2010
at 1:12 PM
Jim,
I re-read your post, and want to say something about the Big Guy taking care of all that scary stuff. I think you’re right. Especially if the big guy is open to influence, which apparently he is — prayer, donations to churches, professions of loyalty, general pretty-good behavior. It gives one a sense of control where there generally is no control, at least not until recently in our history.
Much more appealing than “bad things happen to good people,” that’s for sure.
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By: Rae on July 26, 2010
at 1:11 PM
Jim,
I re-read your post, and want to say something about the Big Guy taking care of all that scary stuff. I think you’re right. Especially if the big guy is open to influence, which apparently he is — prayer, donations to churches, professions of loyalty, general pretty-good behavior. It gives one a sense of control where there generally is no control, at least not until recently in our history.
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By: Rae on July 26, 2010
at 1:10 PM
Puppet – I agree. Who’d have thought we’d be looking back with nostalgia on the days when you could listen to Wm F. Buckley, Jr. or George Will in his prime … Before the Republican Party became the party of dummies.
Jim, here’s your Michael Crichton essay:
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/commentaries_essays/crichton_three_speeches.html
As for belief in the supernatural as “hard-wired,” it’s an odd thought. It presupposes a genetic awareness of the distinction between natural and supernatural, which seems unlikely. We’re hard-wired to come up with explanations for things and to adopt heuristics for making decisions and predicting what will happen. And we’re hard-wired to prefer simple explanations (even scientists value parsimony, right?).
Which of those explanations turn out to be natural and supernatural kind of changes with our understanding of the world. Quantuum explanations have only recently moved from the supernatural to natural category, don’t you think? And I suspect that many people think of god as something part of the natural world.
Supernatural vs natural: describing the current state of science, not “reality,” and therefore unlikely to be hard-wired. That said, there is in my mind no reason, aside from wishful thinking, to posit the existence of what most people mean by “god.”
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By: Rae on July 26, 2010
at 1:01 PM
It’s interesting that a lot of folks – probably most – in the world believe in the supernatural, but only their OWN version, thinking everybody else’s gods are just silly. I ran across an argument lately postulated that humans are naturally hardwired with a predisposition to superstition as a means of lowering stress. (the Big Guy is going to take care of all those scary unknown dangers.)
One interesting take on it was by Michael Crichton, who I believe did an essay on environmentalism as a religion, saying that it was basically religion for atheists, scientists or other “freethinkers.” Don’t quote me exactly; I haven’t seen the essay in several years.
Anybody familiar with that?
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 26, 2010
at 11:56 AM
Poolman, I cannot remember a time when I didn’t think Biblical stories were implausible. I recall sitting in Sunday School, thinking, people actually believe this or do they just pretend to believe it?
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By: no one's puppet on July 26, 2010
at 11:42 AM
Hi all –
re: Jim Bakker
I have an old friend in southern WV who has made a fortune doing machine work for the coal mines, but to talk to him you wouldn’t know he had a penny.
Several years back, right after Jim Bakker was released from jail, Roger received a call about two in the morning that there was a bus on Interstate 77 with a likely failed transmission, and could he take a look at it?
He assented and arrived at his shop to find an aging tour bus sitting in one of the bays. He called in some of the machinists from home, made a pot of coffee and asked the people in the bus to come on in out of the cold and share some hot coffee with him while they waited.
In walked Jim Bakker. He went into Roger’s office – Roger said that slinked was more like it – and sat down across the desk, clearly very cold and appreciative. In classic Hillbilly fashion, Roger – who recognized Bakker immediately – conversed with him at length, asked about his bus, but never acknowledged his identity.
Finally Jim could stand it no longer and said, “Do you know who I am?” Roger said yes he did. “I was afraid if you recognized me you wouldn’t work on my bus. After what all I’ve done, and being a jailbird and all.”
Roger – again typical mountain Scotsman – said, “You money’s good, ain’t it?” Bakker allowed it was.
“Then I don’t reckon that other is any of my business.”
By daylight the bus was back on the road. I sure miss those people in the West Virginia coalfields. It’s such a shame there’s nothing there for me or my kids.
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 26, 2010
at 11:02 AM
no one’s puppet re: Whigs and Repuglicans
Fanned!
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 26, 2010
at 10:46 AM
Tammy Faye’s first husband was Jim Bakker. She later married Roe Messner, a contractor she and Jim worked with while building their PTL empire.
Messner was her husband when she died.
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By: talea on July 26, 2010
at 10:39 AM
Namaste: when I went trekking in Nepal, most of the folks I met (some Hindu, some Buddhist, some not religious but all from India or Nepal) defined it as: “The god in me honors the god in you.”
And they defined “god” in different ways: some the Christian/Judaic/Muslim God, some basically as “the force,” “the spirit of the Universe” etc.
I think that’s a lovely greeting, regardless of how you worship or define God.
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By: talea on July 26, 2010
at 10:32 AM
As far as the proof for God, no one’s puppet… with me, I see God’s handiwork in everything and I commune with His Spirit. The universe points to His existence. All mankind needs to do is merely observe the physical evidence. That is before it is removed and hidden from us. The Discovery Channel did a show regarding giants and other evidence that colloborates the Bible’s account of history. However, you cannot find it in their annals. It was captured and put on Youtube. If you google Niphilim you find a lot of information – some credible, some bogus, and a lot questionable. But it is very obvious that the evidence has been systematically removed and has been kept hidden from the public. This is much like the incoming planet X that NASA confirmed in the 80’s, and images have been captured by Hubble and SOHO. And of course, the huge observatory we constructed in 2006 at the south pole. Some info has been leaked. The disinformation campaign is all over that one. The US government has censored these scientific discoveries from the general public.
Obviously, our controllers don’t think we need to know the truth, or are afraid we would not be so passive if we had that knowledge. Can you feel the wool? Wonder why you’re feeling itchy? And you think it is all a battle of religion or political leanings. Silly humans. Much greater things are at stake.
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By: poolman on July 26, 2010
at 10:17 AM
Lori, I should explain a bit better than I have in the past, it is my contention that the Republican Party cannot survive, unless they become a party of ideas, not old ideas or loony ideas thrust upon them by the t p. I hate to say that history repeats itself, because that isn’t entirely true, but that is what happened to the Whig Party, they literally ran out of fresh ideas which benefitted the country. And during the interim, the know nothing party went all Nativist. In retrospect it was absolutely amazing that out of that heap of rubble, a burned out Whig Party that the Republican Party formed and elected Abraham Lincoln to the Presidency. This country needs two vibrant parties in my opinion to function.
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By: no one's puppet on July 26, 2010
at 10:06 AM
My, my. It’s starting to look like we need to get Supernanny in here. TIME OUT!!
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By: Rae on July 26, 2010
at 10:01 AM
Awwwww Fluxux I was expecting so much more from you! That is it? You can do better. I’ve seen it! LOL LOL Check your thesaurus.
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By: lori on July 26, 2010
at 9:16 AM
LORI,
….”isn’t it?”
Just so ya know I observed the miss in the grammar.
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By: craig on July 26, 2010
at 9:10 AM
If Lori stoops to their level, they’ll snicker and declare victory. If Lori ignores them, they’ll snicker and declare victory.
It’s like a Beavis and Butt-head spin-off.
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By: delurkergurl on July 26, 2010
at 9:09 AM
Wow LORI..
Haven’t seen ya this pissy for some time.
It’s not fun when you are the one being chased in the barn yard doesn’t it?
So what torch or banner are you going to take up today? Taking care of Granny Jean?
You seem to always know everything about everything.
Hang in there sunshine!
XOXOXO
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By: craig on July 26, 2010
at 9:06 AM
Lori,
Here’s a difference that even you might be able to understand. I assume that you have some idea of what the word “hypocrite” means.
For you to point to the misspelled signs of the tea party is hypocritical when you wouldn’t even pass a high school English exam. At the very least, “Helen” has a firm grasp of the English language. She doesn’t use “there” when “their” is called for, or throw an apostrophe in where none is required. You? Yes. That’s just the errors for today and it’s not even noon.
So come out from behind “Helen,” Lori. Stop with the juvenile argument that “so-and-so said it toooooo” and back up your divisive claims of a racist tea party while excusing racism within your own party. Because by now we all pretty much know why that claim is being made. It’s strategic. You’re a race-baiter, Lori. Nothing more, nothing less.
Along with a few other things.
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By: Fluxux on July 26, 2010
at 8:49 AM
Jean
I believe Tammy’s husband is Jim Baker
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By: Cynthia on July 26, 2010
at 7:24 AM
This is a great article. It addresses many of the topics we porch dwellers have discussed of the last year or so.
I read a study a couple of years ago, done by a liberal think tank, that has concluded many of the same things this article has asserted. The think tank study was geared, of course, to shifting/preserving liberal policy to reflect the future demographics and electorates. 2008’s election results further demonstates these shifts.
These findings, along with others I’ve cited (along with NOP) leads me to believe the Tea people (aka republican’s) future is at stake if they continue with the same policies. There base is literally dying. It’s why I say I don’t see the TB’s as a long term threat/ political force, especially if they continue to embrace and tolerate extreme racial views.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/cs_20100724_3946.php
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By: lori on July 26, 2010
at 5:33 AM
Oh and just to set the record straight Jim. It was Helen who wrote the line. (you remember her, she is your gracious host who allows you to post here)
“How long before Tea Party members stop misspelling signs and just start burning crosses?”
I gotta give credit where credit is due. Great line dontcha think?
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By: lori on July 26, 2010
at 3:43 AM
There ya go Jim… feel better now?.. Keep looking buttercup it will keep you occupied for daysssssssssss. xoxoxox Love ya
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By: lori on July 26, 2010
at 3:37 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, Rae and alaskapi,
Thanks Rae for the info on Bell, CA. What a mess to clean up.
Now you’ve got me going, alaskapi, trying to remember Tammy Faye’s hubby’s name. I can still visualizing him being carted off to jail but not his name. Isn’t it interesting how these cults get going, last a while and gather a following of ardent supporters. Then the ‘True Believers’ get stuck in a time warp and become angry and defensive whenever their icons are disparaged.
I am reminded of the male domestic fowl who wants to be the only rooster in the hen house but can’t get any of the hens to submit to him. And he can’t challenge any of the other roosters in the barnyard to a cock fight because none of them cares to be bothered with him either. Poor fellow. All he can do is crow.
Busy day tomorrow since our CA family is coming out this week. I have to roust out early and that is going to be a sacrifice! I don’t choose to ‘do’ morning anymore. It is against my recently acquired moral principals.
Nighty-night all,
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 26, 2010
at 1:22 AM
And I’m sure waiting for a wallop of fresh air from Helen too… hoping all is ok there…
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By: alaskapi on July 25, 2010
at 9:47 PM
Does Glenn Beck remind anyone else of Tammy Faye Bakker?
——————–
No- more like a hybrid of Tammy Faye and her hubby, whatziname…
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By: alaskapi on July 25, 2010
at 9:46 PM
Auntie Jean, from what I’ve read, the problem in Bell, CA is that the city changed its organization from general to charter law, circumventing pay limits the state imposes on city councils. Fewer than 500 people out of 40,000 showed up to vote in the election where this change was made, and they voted to pass the proposal. Probably family members of the beneficiaries of the lifting of limits. Oops. Hope they’re kicking themselves in the behinds now.
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By: Rae on July 25, 2010
at 9:45 PM
Sarah T — I’m a pretty good Internet searcher and I can find NOTHING recent about Helen or Margaret out there. I share your bad feeling …
Auntie Jean, I don’t think the governor has much to say about the pay of local officials. State can get involved if there’s corruption, though. Who can explain that craziness?
Does Glenn Beck remind anyone else of Tammy Faye Bakker?
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By: Rae on July 25, 2010
at 9:34 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
My husband and I have always liked to read – almost anything. Books, magazines, newspapers, journals, traffic signs and cereal boxes. ‘Boy toy’ is especially adept at ferreting out obscure items of interest, both interesting and outrageously obscene.
Here’s a story he read in our local paper about a small town, Bell, CA, near Los Angeles, population, 36,000+. Can anyone from SoCal verify this?
I have to laboriously copy it because scanning it, etc., etc., etc., is beyond my inclination (and capabilities.)
“The City Council in this small, blue collar suburb of Los Angeles intends to ask three administrators whose salaries total more than $1.6 million to resign or face possible firing.
The officials include Chief Administrative Officer Robert Rizzo, who earns $787,637 a year – nearly twice the pay of President Barrack Obama – for overseeing one of the poorest towns in Los Angeles County. (That’s seven-hundred-eighty-seven thousand, six-hundred and thirty-seven dollars a year, folks!)
The others are: Assistant City Manager Angela Spaccia, who makes $376,288 a year and Police Chief Randy Adams, whose annual salary of $457,000 is 50% more than that of Lon Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck. (Three-hundred-seventy-six-thousand, two-hundred-eighty-eight dollars a year. And four-hundred-fifty-seven-thousand dollars a year for the police chief, fifty percent more than the LA Police Chief.)
Councilman Luis Artiga said the panel planned to request the resignations during a closed-door, afternoon meeting that was called to consider dismissing the officials. A public hearing is scheduled for Monday.
Rizzo was hired at an annual salary of $72,000 a year in 1992, and the council rapidly increased that amount over the years. His most recent raise boosted his salary more than $84,000 a year. (Seven-hundred-two thousand dollars a year in 1992 with more than eight-hundred-four-thousand dollars a year in raises.)
‘All right, somebody wasn’t paying attention to that,’ said Artiga, who joined the council a little more than a year ago. ‘But we are acting on that today.’”
My point is: This has been going on during the tenure of the Republican Governor Ahnold Schwartzenegger, under his leadership watch of the State of California. If I remember correctly, California has or did have the 6th (sixth) largest economy in the world. And – – – I understand that the State is now broke.
This is an example of why we have to change our leadership at the Congressional level in Washington, at the state levels, county and municipal levels in November and on into 2012. We need a much more comfortable Democratic majority to get things done and faster. Reversing the abuses that have gone on so long, PEACEFULLY and within the RULE OF LAW, takes time. The Democrats need more time to clean up the abuse and neglect that the Republicans have allowed and sanctioned. Leave the rabble-rousing-protesting-marching-in-the-streets to the tea partiers and so-called ‘conservtive thinkers’.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 25, 2010
at 8:37 PM
Jim- what is this tirade about?
This Ayn Rand thing?
She was certainly affected by the Russia of her birth and the Bolshevik Revolution- her ferocious condemnation of anything collectivist and near religiosity regarding anything individual may have been part of her personality but she herself pointed to her young adult years under Communist rule as the reason she felt so strongly that way.
She fell in love with America at certain levels but was no lover of democracy…
And her rational self-interest philosophy …?
Crimenently, the woman was in love with elitist aristocratic notions of who was worth anything…
Her heros fell pitifully short of Ortega’s “noble man” – a much healthier ideal from a contemporary…
Who cares when Jean last read the dang book?
Looking for references to Russia in it misses her point…
And I can’t figure yours out…
What’s with the sniping ?
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By: alaskapi on July 25, 2010
at 8:30 PM
I’ve not a good feeling about Margaret and Helen. Would there be anyway of finding out if both are well? I wonder.
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By: Sarah T. on July 25, 2010
at 8:11 PM
And my final word on Ayn Rand: Revenge of the Nerds writ large.
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By: Rae on July 25, 2010
at 7:38 PM
Ayn Rand was very much Russian. She was born in Russia, was a young woman during the revolution, and saw her family’s fortunes lost to “collectivism.” She finished college in Russia and developed her philosophy there, although she didn’t really study philosophy in any depth. Her philosophy is pro-capitalist primarily as a reaction to what she saw happen in Russia. To call it “pro-American” is simplistic; she was mostly passionately anti-collectivism. She would argue, I think, that she was mostly pro-reason, and there is no doubt that she was quite intelligent, but she wasn’t well-educated.
Rand’s philosophical arguments have received a pounding in philosophical circles, but her advocacy of unfettered capitalism has found some political favor, and was the underlying “philosophy” for much of the Chicago school of economics that defined fiscal policy over the last few decades. I’d say most of us question whether that worked out as well as its proponents expected. Or maybe it did — the “special” people made a killing, and the riff-raff got poorer. Who’d have thought Alan Greenspan would turn out to be the real John Galt? Funny, I always thought of him as better looking. Teenage girl stuff, I guess.
I do remember seeing Rand interviewed often during the late 60s and 70s — she was an occasional guest on Dick Cavett. A life-long smoker, she had a raspy, horrible voice, and she seemed to have the sourest disposition you can imagine. Pretty much like the stereotypes of Russian women at the time, actually. Scary.
Good lord. (That’s for your benefit, Jim; Christians don’t own the English language, believe it or not.)
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By: Rae on July 25, 2010
at 7:33 PM
Oops, Lori,-YW! Thanks again.
BTW (look at me show off) I don’t think the PFesser likes to learn from others, he just likes to instruct. Another type of class envy I suppose…
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By: Roz on July 25, 2010
at 5:27 PM
lori-
“oh lord before I better correct this before someone has a hissy…”
Stop acting like a petulant little girl.
It’s generally considered bad manners on the ‘Net to point out spelling or grammatical errors, and I make it a point to avoid doing it, but in your case it was appropriate and I made an exception, gently pointing out that those who like to harp on misspelled Tea Partiers’ signs might not be immune to making spelling errors themselves.
It seems to have worked, too – I haven’t seen you point out any misspelled Tea Party signs lately.
And by the way, by christian rules, “lord” is spelled with a capital “L.” In charity, I’ll let the other errors drop.
You’re welcome.
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 25, 2010
at 5:02 PM
oh lord before I better correct this before someone has a hissy…. LOL
YW = you’re welcome
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By: lori on July 25, 2010
at 2:53 PM
roz… YW= your welcome 😉
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By: lori on July 25, 2010
at 2:51 PM
Lori, many thanks for the Namaste lesson! However, I still need one more bit of info–what does the VW you used in the beginning of your post signify?
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By: Roz on July 25, 2010
at 2:43 PM
I’m suffering from Margaret and Helen withdrawal, hoping you’re on a lovely vacation and staying healthy!
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By: kunichris on July 25, 2010
at 2:20 PM
Jean –
I think you got caught pants down and you are trying crawfish out of it by slicing the proverbial balogna thinner and thinner.
I read Atlas cover to cover recently. I can’t think of a single reference to Russia – czarist or otherwise. Maybe there is somewhere, but it is no way even obliquely the main thrust. “The Russia of her heritage?” What does that mean?
Of course everybody sees things through their own filter. What’s new? That’s not what you said. Here is what you said: She romanticized the Russia of her heritage during the Czarist regimes especially in the wake of WW’s I and II and under Communism.”
She did no such thing. If she romanticized anything, it was America.
Jean, you need to cut your losses here and frankly admit you haven’t read the book in ages, had forgotten what was in it, and got caught by someone who knew.
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By: PFesser on July 25, 2010
at 1:46 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I don’t respond directly to “Anonymous Persons.” For the benefit of the rest of the gang, in my comment of 7/24 2010 at 9:25 PM I stated, regarding Any Rand, and this is a direct quote: “The Russia of her HERITAGE.” (Caps are mine.) That is in reference to Any Rand who published “Atlas Shrugged” sometime in the ’50s. I content that most of us see the world through the lens of our own ancestral and cultural heritage.
I apologize for the mispelling of “James Galway’s” name. He is the great Irish Flautist. Although on this blog, the name “James” (or the contraction to “Jim”) could just as easily be construed as “Games”, since there is a preference with those persons for childish game playing.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 25, 2010
at 12:29 PM
” Since the majority of illegals in AZ are Hispanic, it would seem to me that having a higher index of suspicion that Hispanic-appearing people (who have been stopped for a traffic violation, say) might be illegals would be appropriate, good police work. You know, “I suspect Hispanic-appearing people more because that’s where (figuratively speaking) the money is.” May 19th, 3:44
Not all illegals in Arizona are Hispanic, but that’s also the way to bet. It’s just police work 101. May 20
Anyway, back to allegories and realities. I’m aware Atlas Shrugged is a work of fiction, but it concerns me when people suggest that real life and economies should be based on it. Nobody is doing this with Lord of the Rings or Pilgrim’s Progress. (It’s also worth noting that Ayn Rand had no regard whatsoever for Libertarians – felt about them pretty much the same way Joseph Campbell felt about neo-pagans). The only other ‘allegory’ I can think of offhand that gets treated this way is “The Turner Diaries”, and we all know how that turned out.
I’m also going to mention again – In this fondly imagined social structure, the best you can hope for is Loyal Serf. They’re not letting you into the People That Matter Club. Not no way, not nohow. It’s a good idea, therefore, to notice how the Loyal Serfs get treated, both in the allegory and in real life. BOHICA. (For those not familiar with that particular abbreviation, that’s Bend Over, Here It Comes Again). Sorry, I don’t see the attraction.
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By: judith on July 25, 2010
at 6:49 AM
Jim you are a real puke. If you want to get your jollies off this morning by insulting people go back to insulting me. I am sure there are enough grammar and spelling mistakes in my posts it will keep you hot for a whole week!
If you don’t like Auntie Jean’s posts stop reading them!
Good God man pick on someone your own age!
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By: lori on July 25, 2010
at 6:10 AM
Obama speaking to Netroot Nation.
A good reminder of how far we’ve come! Worth the listen.
As he says, we have done it before, we can do it again. YES WE CAN!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/24/barack-obama-netroots-nation-video_n_658193.html
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By: lori on July 25, 2010
at 6:04 AM
Auntie Jean –
Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged”. – snip -. She romanticized the Russia of her heritage during the Czarist regimes especially in the wake of WW’s I and II and under Communism.”
I think one of our memories is beginning to fail us. (It could be me; I’m fast approaching my dotage… -grin-). I just re-read Atlas about three years ago and don’t recall a single line about Czarist Russia. (or in fact a single line about Russia, although I could be wrong). It was set almost entirely in America, wasn’t it?
Could you help us out with a few citations? It would be important to know, since if that one line is not true it negates the entire paragraph. Thanks.
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By: Anonymous on July 25, 2010
at 5:49 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I had a lovely afternoon working with my piano student. Today we finished up Debussy’s “Clair de Lune” and “La fille aux cheveu de lin”, (“The Girl with the Flaxen Hair”.) Next time we will work on Erik Satie’s “Gnossienne No. 1”. If you are interested, you can You Tube them. I recommend the “Clair de Lune” performed by smalin but the beloved Games Galway’s flute rendition is haunting. The best Satie work on You Tube by far, at least for me is, Michelangeli. Relax and enjoy!
This student happens to be a whiz with computer stuff so is helping me get started, getting the bugs out to re-activate my website. I would like to be able to add to it, maybe edit some of it, etc. We are working on the barter system. There is no charge for the music lessons and no charge for the computer lessons.
I have read with some interest the debate here about Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged”. Of course, it is a piece of fiction that was popular during my young adulthood. She romanticized the Russia of her heritage during the Czarist regimes especially in the wake of WW’s I and II and under Communism.
For a somewhat different POV, perhaps you would like to check out my non-fiction account of Czarist Russia under Nicholas II through WWI and into the beginnings of Communism there. If you click on my name up by my avatar, you can read about it starting with Chapter 24 and through all of Part Three. There was one tiny little inherited recessive gene that played a vital role, possibly changing the course of history as we know it. Ayn Rand could never have even heard of it or believed it if she had.
Aloha! :_)
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 24, 2010
at 9:38 PM
Auntie Jean – I have been laughing over your “Medieval Times” shorthand story from July 23. Only those of us living and going to school then can appreciate it.
My shorthand story goes like this. When I started HS my mother ( who was a top notch secretary) was going to teach me shorthand so it would be easy I went to HS> She had done this with her youngest sister. I didn’t even get to the end of the first page when I shut the book and said “NO”. When it came time to enrol for my JR year I was asked “Foods or Clothing?” I iwas permitted to do it. My reply was “Drafting” .
and believe it or not I was permitted to do it.
AT my 50th reunion I learned I was the first girl to ever take drafting at that schooll!
PS I had been cooking and sewing at home for a long time.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 24, 2010
at 5:58 PM
YW Roz, Ive been reading your posts for a long time and always love your thoughts.
this is the definition wiki has for namaste (I pronounce it namastay)
Namaste (Sanskrit: नमस्ते, Hindustani pronunciation: [nʌmʌsˈteː], from external sandhi between namaḥ and te) is a common spoken greeting or salutation used in India and Nepal. It has multi-religious or else common usage where it may simply mean “I bow to you.” The word is derived from Sanskrit namas, to bow, give obeisance or reverential salutation, and te, “to you.”[1]
When spoken to another person, it is commonly accompanied by a slight bow made with hands pressed together, palms touching and fingers pointed upwards, in front of the chest. This gesture, called Añjali Mudrā, can also be performed wordlessly and carries the same meaning.
I use it as a salutation with people I respect and love. As an affectionate goodbye or hello.. There are several spellings and I’ve heard it pronounced 100 different ways!
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By: lori on July 24, 2010
at 5:43 PM
Great shopping story JSRI, thanks for the lift!
And Lori, thanks for the K. Gibran quote that takes one right where they need to be – IMHO. Also, I’m wondering about the meaning of Namaste …I’m not sure if it means peace or implies a connection amongst us as beings or…..can you help?
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By: Roz on July 24, 2010
at 5:25 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri on July 24,2010 at 1:26PM,
Yep, jsri, your WW and I are sisters under the skin. There is an interesting littke article in the current July 2010 “Scientific American Magazine” that indicates that “Under Threat, Women Bond and Men Withdraw”. At the Cognitive Neuroscience Society’s 2010 meeting in Montreal, experts cofirmed what you WW and I have always known.
‘Management’ doesn’t have a prayer when up against a battalion of women armed with shopping carts and a fistfull of coupons.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 24, 2010
at 4:09 PM
“Why would anyone settle out of court with a patient if there wasn’t a threat of a much larger in court judgement?”
Look – we know mistakes are going to occur, and as medicine progresses, more procedures are going to be done on sicker and sicker patients, further increasing the probability that one of those treatments is not going to work out. We know that. I personally would like to see a compensation system that would – first and foremost – cover all patient expenses related to that injury. Once a patient is enrolled, the case will be peer-reviewed to see if this was an expected complication by a competent physician or whether the physician should have done a better job. If his competency is found wanting, then he would be required to increase his competency in that area through more training before doing that procedure again.
“And if there is an out of court settlement who would represent the victim?”
Just like now. Typically that person retains an attorney.
“And would that person be compensated for their skill set?”
I would assume they would charge for their services, or do it pro bono.
“Isn’t that the principle you were screaming about a day or two ago when you complaining about the caps (or in that case regulations) congress has put on wall street or when Bush did nothing to bailout AIG when it was in a shambles?”
I don’t scream.
I don’t believe I have commented on the Wall Street regulations that were passed lately, except as I read them they are probably not tough enough. Can you quote me where I said that?
As I said about AIG and others, if they are too big to fail they are too big to exist.
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By: PFesser on July 24, 2010
at 3:59 PM
I just have to ask these questions. In your fantasy world….
Why would anyone settle out of court with a patient if there wasn’t a threat of a much larger in court judgement?
And if there is an out of court settlement who would represent the victim?
And would that person be compensated for their skill set?
Isn’t it capitalism to allow the market to dictate the attorney’s fee’s? Isn’t that the principle you were screaming about a day or two ago when you complaining about the caps (or in that case regulations) congress has put on wall street or when Bush did nothing to bailout AIG when it was in a shambles?
Or would you have some class envy going when it comes to attoneys?
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By: lori on July 24, 2010
at 3:37 PM
Rae –
“Capping awards – snip -but won’t do much at all to the overall costs in the system.”
Look – I have been in the medical field since 1975, and have watched this system get more and more screwed up the whole time. It is basically a system to screw the patient. The patient must have a doctor. The doctor must have insurance. The insurer must stay solvent, so they pass any new costs to the doc who passes them to the patient.
Other countries have dealt with this a long time ago, but we can’t seem to do it. When a reporter asked Harry Reid about tort reform in the new healthcare bill, he said that they would barely be able to pass it anyway and they weren’t about to take on the trial lawyers.
I need health care; my family needs healthcare; my relatives, too. People who work in the healthcare system know what needs to be done – on all fronts, not just tort reform – but nobody ever asked us. And of course those who make a veritable killing off the system – the insurance companies and the trial lawyers – are going to do everything they can – usually through class envy – to keep medical people and patients at each others’ throats. And it is working; this little forum is a case in point.
Warren Buffett said that if you are in a poker game for a half hour and still didn’t know who the patsy is, you’re the patsy. The next time you drive past a skyscraper full of trial lawyers of a gated community full of mcmansions owned by same, take a second to consider who is the patsy.
It’s you.
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 24, 2010
at 3:16 PM
Rae –
“Let me bring this down to earth: x contains y. Does that mean that x = y? Absolutely not,”
Nobody every said they were the same thing. You’re making this too hard.
Mathematical logic does not speak of fallacies. Period. Philosophical logic does. They are not the same thing. Neither contains the other. I think we are going in circles here.
“And I’m sure you know that it is the medical claims system — they way the providers of medical care must obtain reimbursement for their services in this country — that adds the most cost to our system.”
That is one cost. There are others, including the costs of defensive medicine, which is very difficult to quantify. I’ll give you an example, and don’t think this is just one guy; it is the perfect description of the doctors’ mindset:
I keep track of radiation dose to patients. Last year I upbraided a young ER physician: “You have to let up on these CT scans on kids; you are burning them up!”
His response: “Look, I know exactly what I’m doing, but look at it from my POV. I am young; I have forty more years to work. There is absolutely no penalty to me to do a CT on everybody, but there is a hell of a penalty if I don’t and miss something. Maybe career-ending.”
Thoughts? And before you comment, you can fuss all you want; there is not a thing you can do about this; as long as physicians run scared they are going to order every test they can think of. Period.
As for the legal costs, wouldn’t you agree it would be beneficial to get rid of the 1/2 of the cost of litigation that does not go to the patient if the patient could be equally compensated otherwise?
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By: PFesser on July 24, 2010
at 3:02 PM
What the heck …. how about a little math?
What are the “legal costs” involved in a medical malpractice or other personal injury case?
Well, you have to pay for experts — medical experts, for example. Tens of thousands there.
You have to pay for your lawyer’s time, of course, generally less per hour than you paid for your doctor. And the lawyer has to spend a very large number of hours navigating the legal bureaucracy (just as the average doctor spends a large percentage of his or her time navigating the medical bureaucracy).
So let’s say we do away with contingency fees for lawyers. Even if every lawyer would agree to work for free, you have court costs, and those pesky experts. So ante up a few tens of thousands, and you can get to court with your claim. Of course, your free lawyer isn’t going to be as good as the high-paid lawyers the rich guys get, but we all know justice isn’t the same thing for rich and not-so-rich. OK, let’s say you pay your lawyer a reasonable hourly rate. Add a few more tens of thousands to the pot. Now you can have access to the legal system. Lawyers will take bad cases and good cases — what’s the difference? They’ll get paid either way.
All right, let’s keep contingency fees, but put a cap on the awards. Probably not a bad idea, because juries do tend to pile on the $$ for especially sympathetic victims, for example, babies, and against unsympathetic defendants, e.g., large corporations. In fact, juries cause quite a bit of unfairness in the system. The problem is that nobody has figured out a better way to balance the power between the ordinary plaintiff and the corporate defendant.
Capping awards will make us feel better about the whole thing — nothing worse than hearing about somebody getting rich off a bogus claim — but won’t do much at all to the overall costs in the system.
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By: Rae on July 24, 2010
at 1:46 PM
JeanΔ ¥ on July 23, 2010 at 10:45 PM
Genetics and shopping.
There is no question that the shopping gene is a sex influenced female dominant. Occasionally males are influenced by it but mostly when it helps sort through craft beers. I think my wife has a double dose. And even though she could qualify for a parking placard, she won’t apply because most places she researches, have shopping carts and, like you, she can go for hours, as long as she has one to lean on. But the funny part is that, after shopping, she often arrives at home empty handed. But I know that she knows absolutely where every item of interest is located and she is now ready to pounce on them when they go on sale.
And then there are the coupons. She is always armed with a fistful.
Recently we went shopping for a small kitchen appliance. I went along as her bellhop. I’d get to carry the bags. She had a 20% off coupon but her tired eyes couldn’t decipher the miniscule fine print and only when she presented the coupon did she learn that the branded appliance she chose was specifically verboten. But the female sales associate, who was awed by Wonder Wife’s coupon cache, noticed that she had a generic store coupon worth 5% off any item. Almost immediately, another shopper joined the fray and the 3 ladies had a prolonged discussion about coupons and sales in general. Meanwhile, I’ve been standing around in the background for what seemed like hours and I’m beginning to droop like an unwatered potted plant. Then the sales associate noted that the 3rd woman had a generic store coupon worth 10% and asked if she would be willing to swap with my wife if she could give up some grocery coupons from her stash. But first they had to get a store supervisor’s approval. The female store supervisor, yet another clandestine shopper, joined in the discussion and I watched in amazement as the whole issue got sorted out amid a lot of talk, a lot of laughter and a lot of shopping stories.
Well, 15% isn’t quite the 20% that WW was looking for but it was a healthy discount, nevertheless. So now I’m looking at the manual that came with the appliance and my English reading of the directions translated by a Chinese interpreter from the original Indonesian has a lot to be desired. But it was a great bargain.
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By: jsri on July 24, 2010
at 1:26 PM
Jim,
My good philosopher friends and my good mathematician friends would say you are making a “false dichotomy” (whose aim is not to speak right, but to make right figures, as Mr. Pascal would say). They, and the computer scientists I’ve worked with over the years, believe themselves to be studying the same thing, but approaching it with different tools. Philosophers use words, so introduce a semantic component; mathematicians are deliberately abstract and formal. I think most agree that computer science has a little corner of the logic world that is its area of interest, and none of them have ever made the claim that that corner is also where mathematical logic lives.
Let me bring this down to earth: x contains y. Does that mean that x = y? Absolutely not, at least in most formal systems (you could imagine systems that would be otherwise.) Philosophers would say no. Mathematicians would say no (set theory; it’s basic). And computer scientists would say no. All for the same reason, although the language of their explanations might be a little different.
It is true that access to quality medical care and the legal system are both much more expensive in this country than elsewhere. The systems are inefficient and error-prone. Blaming lawyers for this is silly. Much of the legal work done in this country is done pro bono; your comment about lawyers doing what doctors do is inaccurate and mean-spirited. And I’m sure you know that it is the medical claims system — they way the providers of medical care must obtain reimbursement for their services in this country — that adds the most cost to our system. You and I pay for the uninsured in every American-made product we buy, which somehow makes people happier than paying for them directly. Great for insurance company shareholders, bad for all of us. But let’s blame lawyers for the mess — after all, if some lady in California weren’t suing McDonalds for too-hot coffee, everything would be hunky-dory.
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By: Rae on July 24, 2010
at 1:25 PM
Bravo gimmethetruth, keep on writing!
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By: lori on July 24, 2010
at 1:05 PM
The Repub representatives should be more like the Dems and stick it to the taxpayers, and then turn around and not pay their own fair share. Hypocrites.
I like that Mad Cow calling out bias on Fox News. What did she have to say about the Journolist?
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/07/the-corruption-of-journolist.html
In case you missed it, here’s what Mad Cow’s frequent guest Spencer Ackerman considers his job as a journalist –
“What is necessary is to raise the cost on the right of going after the left. In other words, find a rightwinger’s [sic] and smash it through a plate-glass window. Take a snapshot of the bleeding mess and send it out in a Christmas card to let the right know that it needs to live in a state of constant fear. Obviously I mean this rhetorically.
And I think this threads the needle. If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they’ve put upon us. Instead, take one of them — Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists. Ask: why do they have such a deep-seated problem with a black politician who unites the country? What lurks behind those problems? This makes them sputter with rage, which in turn leads to overreaction and self-destruction.”
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By: tellthetruth on July 24, 2010
at 12:58 PM
Rae –
“mathematics contains logic. Are you perhaps confusing mathematics with computation or arithmetic?”
Stop! Stop! You’re both right!
There is “logic” that is a subdivision of mathematics, true. It is the logic that operates all our computers. I had a 4-hour class in digital logic in EE school – it has nothing to do with fallacies, except the fallacy that I thought I could get an “A.”
There is also a “logic” – very different from the above – that is a subdivision of philosophy, and most generally the mathematicians let the philosophers worry about the “fallacies” that are in turn a subdivision of philosophy’s “logic.”
“As for contingency fees, it’s a way to make tort actions available to people who aren’t rich. Contingency fees encourage lawyers to take only worthy cases and to take worthy cases regardless of the client’s current ability to ante up $20,000. Do away with that, and you’ll take one step closer to “liberty and justice for all who can afford it.”
Ah, yes – the old, “Contingency fees are the poor man’s keys to the courthouse” argument.
Firstly, if the cases are worthy, why don’t the lawyers do what doctors do – take them for free?
Secondly, the British and a lot of others figured out the answer to this a loooooong time ago – it’s called, “loser pays” – basically the loser in a suit pays all lawyer fees and court costs. If you have a good case then you should pursue it, since the opposition will be paying your fees. Of course, with real assets at risk, this tends to make people think twice about going to court and try to settle their differences – unlike the US, in which the only thing the plaintiff has at risk is a $75 filing fee. The court will of course decide what is a reasonable fee, which of course the lawyers hate.
The ultimate result is that there are a lot fewer lawsuits, the courts are tied up less, people tend to settle out of court, and meritorious cases go on to the courtroom. What’s to hate? Nothing unless you are a plaintiff’s attorney looking across the big pond at billion-dollar settlements and calculating what 45% of that would do for your summer home.
“There are obvious abuses of the system, but they’re relatively rare and highly publicized. The studies of the subject conclude that savings in our medical care system, for example, as a result of tort reform would be relatively small.”
That’s the plaintiffs lawyer’s argument of course; there are others who disagree. A four-second google turns up:
“U.S. litigation costs overall are at least twice those in other developed countries, such as Canada and much of Europe, according to a 2008 study by the Manhattan Institute’s Center for Legal Policy. Experts have estimated U.S. medical liability claims to be roughly 10% of all tort litigation, with at least half of related expenses going to legal costs rather than compensating patients.”
As you would say, “hmmmm……”
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 24, 2010
at 12:48 PM
I love this blog, and I truly enjoy reading the comments. I hope Helen will post again soon.
She inspired me to start my own blog here, so if you’re reading this and interested, it’s
http://www.gimmethetruth.wordpress.com
Frankly, the Repubs looking out for the rich and themselves is nothing new. They have revealed their true selves by simply sticking it to the unemployed, who are mostly unemployed due to the inept and carlesness of their Repulican President George Bush.
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By: gimmethetruth on July 24, 2010
at 12:34 PM
Hmmm…
Anonymous, mathematics contains logic. Are you perhaps confusing mathematics with computation or arithmetic?
As for Ayn Rand, good grief. Even when I was in high school I knew the books were fantasies of the “geek guy gets hot babe” variety. And Ayn Rand herself … what a mess. Online gaming is today’s Atlas Shrugged. Is there anyone (other than a few embarrassing Chicago school economists) over 18 who believe that stuff?
As for contingency fees, it’s a way to make tort actions available to people who aren’t rich. Contingency fees encourage lawyers to take only worthy cases and to take worthy cases regardless of the client’s current ability to ante up $20,000. Do away with that, and you’ll take one step closer to “liberty and justice for all who can afford it.”
There are obvious abuses of the system, but they’re relatively rare and highly publicized. The studies of the subject conclude that savings in our medical care system, for example, as a result of tort reform would be relatively small.
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By: Rae on July 24, 2010
at 11:28 AM
Judith –
“better – the last time I bowed out was when some silly twit argued that “most criminals (in the area) are Latino; therefore, we should legally be able to challenge all Latinos” or words to that effect.”
I’ve searched the posts and I can’t find that or anything like it. Can you help me out with a cite?
“For the record, “A contains B” is not the same as “A equals B”
Mathematically true, but unrelated to fallacies.
“and anybody who can argue it does wouldn’t know a fallacy if it staggered up, bit their ankle and shat on their shoes.”
I would argue that they don’t know the difference between math and logic (although in some cases they can be related. See George Boole – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Boole)
“Ok, Atlas Shrugged. I know it well. I liked it in high school and college, but even then I knew it was a fantasy.”
Actually, it is a novel. And the essence of a novel is that it is not literally true. Novels can sometimes be fantastic (Asimov’s work comes to mind) or sometimes – like Atlas – they can be allegorical. My understanding is that Rand’s purpose was to assail the collectivist mentality (which had robbed her family of their livelihood in Russia during the Revolution).
Not literally true? Yep. Fantasy? Not really.
***********
“Tort reform, anybody? Means you can’t sue, no matter what. Death, disability, you name it. They can poison your grandparents or your kids with bad water or Listeria in the luncheon meat – hey, caveat emptor, you’re SOL.”
It means nothing of the sort. It means putting in place some kind of sanity – like the rest of the world has. For example, the contingency fee – which entangles the lawyer’s personal fortune with the case he’s trying – is illegal – let me repeat that: it is ILLEGAL – in every country in the world except the United States. It is important to compensate people who have been harmed – without enriching liability attorneys, who add nothing to the equation, but end up with most of the money. (John Edwards, anybody?)
Pete Rose can’t bet on his own games. A doctor wouldn’t be allowed to tell his patient, “If you die you don’t owe me anything; if you live you owe me a potentially unlimited amount – maybe hundreds of millions.” Why can a lawyer do that?
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By: Anonymous on July 24, 2010
at 11:12 AM
Good morning all.. Thought this fitting in light of the passing the UI bill this week..
You often say, “I would give, but only to the deserving.”
The trees in your orchard say not so, nor the flocks in your pastures.
They give that they may live, for to withhold is to perish.
Surely he who is worthy to receive his days and his nights,
is worthy of all else from you.
Kahlil Gibran
namaste
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By: lori on July 24, 2010
at 7:47 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, jsri, on July 23, 2010 at 11:47PM and vgman, on July 22, 2010 at 11:35PM,
Uncle jsri, thank you for your spellings and definitions. In the context that I was thinking of, any or all of the three for the words, “boor”, “bore”, and/or “boar” might be applicable. I believe that many of the old time regulars here as well as some more recent ones will be checking in more often when the summer vacation season is over, the kids and grandkids go back to school and the November election campaigns get into full swing. I am confident that Margaret and Helen will come roaring back in then too, if not sooner.
You almost made me homesick for the Eastern Seaboard again, vgman. Well, maybe not homesick but certainly nostalgic. We look forward to a more extensive report when you get back from camping.
Obviously, we are back home from my ‘boy toy’s’ Epidural Prednisone shot today. It went off successfully without a hitch. The nurse was the same one who helped give me mine last summer. The doctor was different though. This one was all of 16-years-old I think, a tall handsome Hispanic dude. While we got acquainted, he practiced his French on us a little as we practiced our Spanish on him some too. His grandparents are coming out to visit shortly from Scottsdale, Arizona to escape the heat.
Both the, doctor, nurse and staff were most efficient. We gave and received hugs all around when we left. We were in and outta there under an hour and a half.
Afterwards, we did a little shopping we forgot Wednesday. Thanks to an Act of Congress, for quite some time we have had a handicapped placard and usually manage to find a close-by-parking space near where they stash the shopping carts before they gather them up to take back to the front entrance.
We can get into bickering over, “My Spinal Stenosis is worse than yours today, so get your own shopping cart to lean on!” We rarely frequent merchants any more that don’t provide shopping carts. They work better than canes or walkers!
We can hobble around nicely as long as we don’t have to go too far or for too long. Example, I log on to M&H, and go take care of some little chores, come back and Voila! all these over-two-months-of-comments have been downloaded. I don’t have to sit there twiddling my thumbs, staring at the computer screen in frustration while I wait.
Then I can sit and rest a bit while I get caught up reading the latest comments. Works for me!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 23, 2010
at 10:45 PM
Oh, no – not dishwashers! I just finished learning how to repair mine. I had decided to clean out the food and grease trap and somehow didn’t put it back together right. The next time I ran it, the lower workings became airborne (waterborne?) and the lower spray arm landed across the heating element and melted all to hell and gone. If it hadn’t been quite so, well, moist, we would have had a major fire. I can’t afford a $200. service call, so we just bought the part online and figured out how it went on. (It’s not like they’ll actually tell you, even in the manual – they just say to call for ‘approved maintenance’). Shipping was as much as the part itself, but at least we have a working machine again – fingers crossed. Approve this! (Imagine appropriate gesture). Funniest thing was DH – when he found out it would be 2 weeks before we got the part, he panicked. “We’ll run out of dishes long before that!” I reminded him that we’ve been married for 30 years. Had a dishwasher for 5. I think we can cope.
Have to weigh in on Atlas Shrugged. I should know better – the last time I bowed out was when some silly twit argued that “most criminals (in the area) are Latino; therefore, we should legally be able to challenge all Latinos” or words to that effect. Can’t even remember whom – can’t keep them straight & don’t really see the need to, but he was seeking to instruct me in fallacies. For the record, “A contains B” is not the same as “A equals B” and anybody who can argue it does wouldn’t know a fallacy if it staggered up, bit their ankle and shat on their shoes. There’s no point in even having a discussion – and that’s even before considering the concept of ‘competitive argument’. This is not the same as a discussion, and “I win, I win, I win! Yee-Hah! This is fun!” would be creepy-ooky, even if the point were a good one.
Ok, Atlas Shrugged. I know it well. I liked it in high school and college, but even then I knew it was a fantasy. (We can get past the part where all the good guys, women included, are tall and beautiful. Fairy tales always do that. I do think that when Keats said “Truth is beauty, and beauty truth”, he meant that truth is beautiful by nature, because it was truth – not the other way around).
The thing that always struck me about it was that nearly all the heros came from Money, except for the occasional freak genius who was allowed in anyway. It was essentially a feudal society, complete with the loyal serf characters, as well as the parasites. Anybody else ever notice that when the ‘productive people’ headed off to their valley to let Society fall to pieces without them, they left the help behind? “Gee, guys, sorry, it’s been fun, but after all, you’re not really, well, us”. Boy, oh, boy – don’t you just want to go work for those people? And the benefit for playing by their rules was – what? I’m sorry, I’m not seeing it.
I understand that Rand had fled Stalinist Russia, which was a nightmare society. That doesn’t really excuse yearning back to the glorious days of nobility and the Tsar. Believe me, in that society, they wouldn’t have let her in, either. No more than the neo-cons are about to let in any of us. Nobody below the top 5%, and if they can get the percentage smaller, they will.
The ‘productive class’ which all these tax breaks, etc. are supposed to benefit seems to be people like the Bushes. They sit on boards, they try to get and hold power and use it to collect even more money with even less oversight and no legal penalties for bad behavior. Tort reform, anybody? Means you can’t sue, no matter what. Death, disability, you name it. They can poison your grandparents or your kids with bad water or Listeria in the luncheon meat – hey, caveat emptor, you’re SOL.
Come up with an innovative idea? They’ll find some way to steal or buy it (for pennies on the dollar), so they can kill it dead. That ‘freak genius” wouldn’t have a chance, in real life.
As far as I can tell, they don’t actually do anything. (Productive?) It isn’t even about the investors, anymore. They get the same money for running companies into the ground and bailing. When Bernie Madoff said “F-k my victims”, he was only being more honest than most. Of course, when you’re serving many more lifetimes than you’re actually going to have. you might as well be honest. I hope he enjoys the novelty.
The neo-cons have a feudal society in mind. Their early writers admit as much. 95% or more will belong to a permanent underclass, with no hope of climbing out. If you think they have your best interests in mind, I have a mother ship you might want to board. If you can leave your mothers basement.
Ok, knock yourself out. Since this can’t be a real discussion, I expect a flurry of bad points, followed by “I win, I win, I win! Yee-Hah! This is fun!”. Cash those points in wherever you think you can, for whatever you think you can get. But I gotta ask – is this anything like the old Gold Stamps catalog?
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By: judith on July 23, 2010
at 7:53 PM
RIP Daniel Schorr. Speaking of NPR, here’s his obit http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128565997
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By: dawn on July 23, 2010
at 7:50 PM
Roz, may I suggest Josh Marshall’s http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
as an additional source of news. You can find more about Mr. Marshall on Wikipedia, it informs of his earlier work. I usually read his site before I read the others you mention.
Vgman, I’m glad you had a chance to see my part of the world. I lived in NYC some years ago though I now live in the country, a couple of hours from there. The part I love about that city is the wonderful diversity of people. You were apparently only in Manhattan, but the surrounding areas are more human. Queens has a wonderful Greek and Mediterranean area, as well as Indian, South and Central America, and Chinese as well as other Asian countries. We’re due to do another international food tour (did one 5-6 years ago) It’s possible to surround yourself with foods and stores from a different country every day for weeks. 40 years ago, we lived in the Arab section of Brooklyn. I have fond memories of the Lebanese woman who made triangular spinach pies (fatayer bi sabanekh) in a ‘bakery’ under the sidewalk, in coal fired ovens. Just entering the place was an adventure. Sadly, last time I was there I learned she had passed on and although there was a rumor of a nephew taking over, I believe the place is closed.
And you also missed the parrots that live in Brooklyn, descended from some that apparently escaped from a shipment that arrived at JFK Airport back in the ’60’s. Seeing their huge communal nests on top of the street light poles in a residential area is unique. They like pizza crusts.
Soooo many wonderful things to do but now it’s more true than ever, “it’s a great place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there.”
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By: HRH sofia EQ on July 23, 2010
at 3:50 PM
jsri, all,
I wholly agree with your “news” post. The last time I watched PBS “Newshour” was when the swiftboaters went after John Kerry. The word balance in news now means you put up a liar against someone telling the “truth”. Yikes!!!
If I watch news now it’s via the daily show and the colbert report. But really, I just mostly go to Daily Kos, Crooks and LIars, Bark, Bark, Woof Woof and of course, here.
I hope we hear from our absent and sorely missed gals soon and that they and theirs are OK!
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By: Roz on July 23, 2010
at 1:49 PM
No, no jsri, this site needs only Margaret and Helen!
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By: no one's puppet on July 23, 2010
at 1:06 PM
vgman on July 22, 2010 at 11:55 PM
One of the features that has made H&M’s website so attractive is the diversity of opinions offered by a readership that stretches across a half dozen time zones and from the Arctic Circle to the Mexican border. By their comments and concerns some of us have learned about the uniqueness of living in parts of the country we have never visited or may have missed in our travels. It is also fun to see how different regions we may be familiar with can be seen through the eyes of those from other parts of the country. Your trip is an example of that. It is also something that Auntie Jean has done effectively on an international scale.
But I fear that all this may be coming to an end as the site has been taken over gradually by a handful of people pushing personal agendas and running roughshod over the rest of the posters. I hate to say this but it looks as if this site is on its last legs unless past posters take it back.
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By: jsri on July 23, 2010
at 12:10 PM
EXACTLY jsri.. I sooooo agree! Makes me a crazy person!
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By: lori on July 23, 2010
at 11:54 AM
lori on July 23, 2010 at 6:17 AM:
My safety net for unbiased news used to be PBS, but not any more. They have fallen into the trap of trying to show balance by presenting countering arguments for issues that may be more in need of additional analyses than balanced opinions. And any interviewer who allows John Boehner or Mitch McConnell to get within ten feet of a microphone should be banished to the nearest outhouse. They are so predictable and repetitious that a tape recorder could easily replace them.
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By: jsri on July 23, 2010
at 11:48 AM
Jean: on July 22, 2010 at 10:18 PM
I missed the context of your question but here are a few definitions that may be useful.
A boor is a person with rude, clumsy manners and little refinement.
A bore is a hollow, usually cylindrical chamber or hole in the ground.
A boar is an uncastrated male pig.
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By: jsri on July 23, 2010
at 11:47 AM
Dawn,
The old 5 moth old dishwasher just went out the door to the scrap heap according to the plumber.
I thought such a waste. I have a call into GE to see if they could repair the old one and donate it here locally to some organization or Habitat for Humanity.
Hang in there for the job. God Bless.
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By: craig on July 23, 2010
at 11:22 AM
Craig,
I feel your pain regarding GE appliances. We bought our house 11 years ago in a new development with all GE appliances. Refridgerator always freezes stuff on the top left part of the shelf. The repairman said I couldn’t read a thermometer. After 30 yrs as a nurse I know how to wipe someone’s butt, and I know how to read a thermometer.
Dishwasher went kaput 2 years ago, but I have kids so that’s no problem. Self cleaning oven can’t stand being at the high temp for that long and it shuts itself down. Washing machine bought the farm about 3 years ago.
I don’t want to say anything about the microwave because it’s working great, but about 50% of the homes have had to have it replaced and that was within the 1st 2 years.
Too bad I didn’t post that a year or two ago…
Thanks for all the positive thoughts regarding my husband’s job situation.
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By: dawn on July 23, 2010
at 10:13 AM
I said. The party out of power ALWAYS loses seats.
It should re .. of course The party IN power Always loses seats.
but everyone knew what I meant right? 😉
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By: lori on July 23, 2010
at 7:03 AM
Those were both good reads Auntie Jean.. thank you poolman and ellise for finding and posting them.
As you know I agree with their POV.
It’s frustrating, for political wonks like myself, to sit through a news cast when the anchors/pundits are simply just wrong in their reporting.
As I was making dinner yesterday I had CNN on in the back ground. I heard one of the hosts throw out a tease that went something like “Obama’s approval ratings take yet another dive”. Curious and a tad worried I hurried what I was doing and went to the TV to hear what the “newest” poll they were citing was all about. In the meantime I searched my data base to see if I could find the polls they were citing and the particulars. I couldn’t find anything that would indicate their tease was even remotely true.
When the political expert finally came on to discuss her “finding” and opinions, my mood went from worried to furious. One of the “facts’ she breathlessly cited to back up her claim that Obama was tanking and therefore going to lose re-election was…. and I’m paraphrasing, Obama is losing white males! Okkkkkk well the problem with that is Obama never “had” white males. McCain won the white male vote by a healthy margin. There were about a half dozen more misconceptions this “expert” cited that I won’t bore you with. The experts’ conclusion was Obama is going to have trouble getting reelected.
My point is …. To the casual, non political, typical American, they would have listen to this “expert” and concluded .. WOW no one likes Obama, he isn’t going to win re election. The experts will of course repeat and repeat and repeat those “facts” today until they become reality in the minds of their listeners.
The “expert” was using approval ratings polls to conclude voter outcome, when voter history showed contradictory data! White men didn’t vote for Obama in 2008. Unless white men’s approval rating is now lower than the percentage of white men that voted for him in 2008 he isn’t “losing” white men. If you want to opine on Obama’s re-election chances compare approval ratings to the actual voter results! grrrrrr sooo frustrating!
The same can is true with the mid term elections and the Tea Party candidates. The party out of power ALWAYS loses seats. Given the economy I expect about a 5 – 10 percent more of a loss. There is no voter history that tells me the percentages they need to win back both houses is possible. It’s going to be a tough year but the forgone conclusion that we will lose congress is far from certain.
Take the tea party candidates. Experts giddily report how tea party candidates are sooooo popular with the voters. They fail to mention they are popular with REPUBLICAN voters. A Tea Party candidate has not won an election against a democrat. The two special elections that ran a TB er…. they lost (NY 23) ! One of those races was in an extremely RED district. Look at KY. It been Republican for years we never had a chance in KY. This year they are running a R/TB, Rand Paul, and guess what? We have a chance in KY!
Do I think a few Tea Baggers will win this year? Yes I do. Do I think they are runaway winners? No I don’t. Not by a long shot.
100 days out, I think we have a good shot at holding both houses. We have to get excited and give our voters a reason to vote. If we accomplish that we retain both.
Anyway… I am happy to see a FEW experts out there still use conventional statistics to opine on election results.
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By: lori on July 23, 2010
at 6:17 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I belong to a growing voter demographic of, uh, mature women. I think we will remember in November. Many of them can relate to my story here.
Back in Medieval Times, in high school it was de rigueur for girls to take courses in Home Economics, (cooking, sewing, etc.,), typing and shorthand. I had no problem with Home Ec and typing, but I can’t tell you how much I despised shorthand! I learned that damn shorthand well, but I still loathed it.
I got a job that, among many other duties, required taking dictation. Here’s how it went. Mr. Big Boss (BB) would call me in, “Miss Sweet Young Thing, (SYT), bring your book.” “Yes, Sir!” I would patiently listen to his rambling, and take it down in shorthand, word for word, then go back to my desk, transcribe it verbatim, type it up and present it to him; stand there while he read and red penciled it and said, “Retype it”. Back to the desk, retype it letter perfectly, present it to him with the stamped addressed envelope for his signature, carefully fold it, lick the envelope and put it in my outbox.
After a while, I started to surreptitiously edit it a little and gradually began to enter the ‘Inner Sanctum’ with an acceptable copy for his signature. Not having to retype everything lightened my workload a little. Over time, Mr. BB caught on and started calling me in, “Miss SYT, answer these,” and pointed to me a stack of correspondence. “ I want them on my desk first thing tomorrow morning”. “Yes Sir!” and I picked them up off his desk. Then he would go home.
Now, I never received an “At-a-Girl!” nor was it reflected in my meager paycheck. At least, Mr. BB never patted me on the fanny either. He was a happily married family man and pillar of the community. It probably didn’t hurt either that my parents were best friends with the Chief of Police and his wife. The four of them played Canasta together all the time.
Fortunately for me I was still living at home with my parent’s free room and board. I usually walked to work or in inclement weather took the streetcar. The streetcar always collected a fare before you could ride it. There was absolutely no way I could have supported myself with a place of my own or a car.
I only stayed with that job for a relatively short time and then I moved on to continue my education and my life. Shorthand? The day I walked out of that office, it was as if I had scrubbed a blackboard with an eraser in my brain. I can’t remember a single squiggle of shorthand today. Much later when I heard about the ‘dicta-phone’ being invented, I thought it was the best thing since the ‘Invention of the Wheel’ and the ‘Emancipation Proclamation’!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 23, 2010
at 1:21 AM
Hi congenial Gang and elsie09,
Woohoo! Sistah Elsie! How did you do that? Yep that’s the Steve Mirsky article I wanted. Now, that’s satirical writing to the max!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 23, 2010
at 12:52 AM
Hey ya’ll,
I’ve been reflecting the past few days on the vacation I just finished–two weeks on the east coast….DC, Philadelphia and New York City.
What a sea of humanity in the most humid spot I’ve ever been. But we had a lot of fun and walked and walked and walked and walked and walked…..
The National Archives outdoor guard on duty told us, “I’ve got my eye on you!”
Saw several people lounging on the Truman Balcony….I had my binoculars.
Laughed at Carol Burnett’s dress made from curtains in the American History Museum.
The massive tile and marble front foyer of the Library of Congress was breathtaking.
There was a dog sniffing around inside of the Supreme Court room–its master chatting with the tourists.
Took a walk to Lafayette Square and watched the tourists, squirrels, and homeless on the benches.
Marveled at the Norman Rockwell exhibit in the National Portrait Gallery.
And of course, learned more about our Presidents and their wives in both the Presidents Portraits exhibit and the First Wives collection in the American History Museum. I can spend hours looking at details in the paintings.
Walked, with my water bottle strapped to my waist, from memorial to memorial in one afternoon…..
Washington’s two-color toned obelisk,
World War II and Vietnam…….
Reflecting Pool and Lincoln……
Korean War…
Franklin Roosevelt
Japanese Cherry Blossom trees
and saw the site under construction for the MLK memorial.
I thought how fitting it was that it would sit across the pond from Thomas Jefferson’s statuesque pose. The words “Let freedom ring” would sound across the water back and forth between the two men.
Then on to Gettysburg. It was here that I stood in the same spot where five presidents have stood to address a Memorial Day crowd at the cemetary.
Toured the Hershey Factory and bought some candy….not too much. Learned a lot about the Amish people as well.
Philadelphia with its Liberty Bell, Independence Hall (which was my most wished for place to be on this trip), Benjamin Franklin’s home and grave, and finally the City Tavern. Once again, having a stout beer from Jefferson’s recipes, while eating in the same place as Washington, Adams, and Jefferson had was inspiring.
Ran up the steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art (72 steps) and posed……and then yelled “Adrianne” out loud to no one in particular.
And of course, had a Philly Cheese Steak sandwich.
New York City was too much. Too many cabs, too many people, too much money, too much walking (but the subway was fun, too!)
Central Park, Times Square, Rockefeller Center, Teddy Roosevelt’s Birthplace, WTC site, St Patrick’s Church, Staten Island Ferry, and my feet are beginning to ache just typing the words.
Anyways, guys and gals, it was fun and memorable.
We have an amazing nation with so many diverse people. Our Constitution just requires us to talk about our differences and then come to resolution in a way that respects each other and works for the common good.
Lastly, I hope that all that I saw would keep reminding me that we live in a country that has been through a lot.
Now, it’s off to camping…..leave the cities behind and enjoy a good campfire.
See ya,
VGman
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By: vgman on July 22, 2010
at 11:55 PM
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=presidential-harrisment
Jean, I believe this may be the Steve Mirsky article you referenced. I hope it holds the information you are seeking.
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By: elsie09 on July 22, 2010
at 10:53 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Bruddah poolman and jsri,
I have another assignment for you Bruddah poolman, to track down another coumn to put up here at M&H. Every issue of “Scientific American Magazine” has a feature article by Steve Mirsky. In the June 2010 issue he had one on a Harris Poll conducted in an online interactive survey regarding the attitudes of Americans toward President Obama. The results and Mirsky’s comments are quite thought provoking.
jsri, maybe you can help me out again with some spelling and definitions. Is it “bore” or is it “boor”?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 22, 2010
at 10:18 PM
Greytdog wrote:
“this little thing called the 1st Amendment and I don’t believe it specifically says that only Christians can build houses of worship.”
No, I think it says something like this, if I’m not mistaken:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
I don’t think it talks about building churches at all, but the mosque would prolly fall under the “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” And under that clause, most likely they can build it. Of course, also under the same amendment, thousands can gather around it in protest, too.
“Nor do I believe that the 1st Amendment defines what is considered worship and what is not.”
Right on. vide supra
“If we want to talk insult because WTC area is now “hallowed ground”,”
I don’t believe much in “hallowed ground.” I do, however, think that this mosque has very little to do with religion and a hell of a lot to do with rubbing America’s nose in dog shit, if you will pardon my French.
“then let’s talk Mt. Rushmore, built smack dab in the middle of sacred Lakota burial grounds.”
Remember what your mommy told you: two wrongs don’t make a right.
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By: PFesser on July 22, 2010
at 9:02 PM
Greytdog –
fiona wrote:
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: -snippity snip – leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
Yeah, yeah…what is the difference between a catfish and a lawyer? One is a scum-sucking bottom dweller and the other is a fish. What is the difference, &c &c…ad infinitum ad nauseum…That technique is so funny Adam kicked the slats out of his cradle when it was first used.
However we both know that ridicule is the last resort of the man with no argument, don’t we?
Show us your argument – have you any.
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By: PFesser on July 22, 2010
at 8:50 PM
Building a mosque two or three blocks away from Ground Zero is not an insult to the people who died there nor is it an aggressive act. As I recall, altho I’m probably wrong, the United States has this little thing called the 1st Amendment and I don’t believe it specifically says that only Christians can build houses of worship. Nor do I believe that the 1st Amendment defines what is considered worship and what is not. If we want to talk insult because WTC area is now “hallowed ground”, then let’s talk Mt. Rushmore, built smack dab in the middle of sacred Lakota burial grounds. . .
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By: Greytdog on July 22, 2010
at 8:24 PM
lori –
“Jim you really need to be a little more orignal with your posts…. the ones you have been copying and pasting are getting boring!”
Nice try, but the cut and paste was of my own post at I believe the Daily Caller (Huffpo?) today. Unlike some, I receive both the Left’s and the Right’s online publications. If you can locate the other post, look at the poster’s name – you will find it is…drum roll…pfesser53…
If you find it, please enlighten us all – including me – as to where you found it.
Believe me, sweetie – I write enough that I don’t need to cut and post anyone else’s work, and if I do, I enclose it in quotation marks. I obviously don’t enclose my own work in quotations… et tu?
So I will be more original if you will be more careful. It isn’t fun having one’s gouge shoved down one’s own throat, it it?
…heh…heh…Fair enough?
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 22, 2010
at 8:21 PM
PFesser-
I interpreted delurkergurl’s comment as a way of looking at the idea in your comments stripped of the emotional baggage we collectively carry when we talk about anything Muslim these last few years… within the device of substituting a group we know…
Similarly to what this young man did here…
What If The Tea Party Was Black – Jasiri X
I’ve been kind of amused but mostly irritated with all the talk about the NAACP “pulling the race card ” talk lately…
My state is almost 15% Alaska Native, including moi. Racism is institutionalized here… both overtly and covertly… and the rise of the local Tea Party is exacerbating it.
There’s no such thing as a race card, there’s no such thing as a monolithic religion which devours all in it’s path by design…
There ARE a LOT of people who are turning to fundamentalist religions of all types, silly political stances, and so on who feel they are left out of the loop …
The methods they are choosing, be they gun toting 2nd amendment twits or muslim extremists , are those human beings choose when they get caught up in a cause and forget they are human…
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By: alaskapi on July 22, 2010
at 8:18 PM
fiona wrote:
“If I felt the mosque’s being built in that location was anything other than blatant aggression, I would say let it be. ”
‘Pfesser, would you have the same complaint if it were a Christian church?
Didn’t think so …’
Very considerate of you to ask me a question and then answer it, too! Thank you, but if you don’t mind, I’ll take a stab at it myself…
You have struck a dry hole here, since I am a lifelong atheist and consider christianity to just be another desert religion, somewhat akin to islam, but generally more vicious and therefore successful. If anything, having grown up in the buckle of the bible belt, I am more frustrated with fundamentalist christians than I am fundy islamists.
To get back on track: One never knows what one would do in a hypothetical, but if the Towers had been struck by aircraft piloted by christian zealots, doing it for god, and then a christian church proposed, I believe my response would be the same.
How about you? Correct me if I’m wrong, but my assumption is you are christian. How do you think you would have reacted?
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 22, 2010
at 8:11 PM
Fiona64–you are great!
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By: Donna on July 22, 2010
at 7:17 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Brudda poolman,
Wow! poolman, you are quick! I thank you and I think most of the gang here will thank you.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 22, 2010
at 7:15 PM
Here’s that article by Gene Lyons, Auntie Jean. 😉
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By: poolman on July 22, 2010
at 5:36 PM
LOL LOL I love that comeback Fiona64! ( and I love your name..)
Jim’s quote made the rounds recently in one of those propaganda e-mails JRSI and Auntie Jean were talking about earlier today. I think Rush bo was spouting it as well a little while back….. Your post is a PERFECT slap down! Thank you! LOL
Jim you really need to be a little more orignal with your posts…. the ones you have been copying and pasting are getting boring!
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By: lori on July 22, 2010
at 5:30 PM
“There are several soliloquies in Atlas Shrugged that so perfectly stress the need for a free society, without the meddlers trying to achieve “fairness” by fiat.”
To which I can only respond with this (unfortunately, I do not know to whom this should be attributed):
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
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By: fiona64 on July 22, 2010
at 5:04 PM
“If I felt the mosque’s being built in that location was anything other than blatant aggression, I would say let it be. ”
Pfesser, would you have the same complaint if it were a Christian church?
Didn’t think so …
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By: fiona64 on July 22, 2010
at 5:01 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri,
We should all take to heart your explanation of the email and spam’s methods of distribution. Even ‘jokes’ we receive from good friends invariably have a laundry list of email addresses attached. I have always taken the time to delete all the extraneous stuff before I forward them on.
We have NEVER wanted our email address distributed indiscriminately, but somehow, despite our best efforts, it still gets out there. Same with our mailing address.
On to the business of the day. Our local newspaper runs political columns every day gleaned from national and international newspapers of every stripe. In this morning’s paper there was an excellent article by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette columnist, Gene Lyons, entitled;
“Simplify, Amplify and Repeat, Mr. President”. (For the benefit of the Conservative Thinkers with a short attention span I guess.) If there is anyone here more computer savvy than I, (Bruddah Peas? Bruddah Poolman?), I would appreciate it if you could track his column down and put up a link here. I don’t know how to do that.
Regarding travel vs. reading about it. We have always done our homework before going places. Often that’s what prompted us to go there in the first place! We always picked up local books and did more reading after we got home because that’s what interested us. Since then, whenever we read or see on TV anything about those places, our interest is piqued even more because we have been there! One of our newer ‘trolls’ has ahem! so adroitly attempted to instructed us on ‘word association’, (as if that were a new concept.)
Future travels are somewhat iffy considering our economic resources and health issues, but we never say never – – – about anything!
Last year when I was getting my Epidural Prednisone shot like my ‘boy toy’ is getting tomorrow, the doctor was giving me the pitch on what it was all going to be about. Bless his heart, from where I sat, he looked like he was about 16 years old. So I asked him, “Then you have done this before?” He grinned and quipped, “Well, I’ve read about it!”
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 22, 2010
at 4:02 PM
Jean:
Good to see you are still posting. For the past few weeks this site has been taken over by some pretty persistent posters and it has gotten to be like wading through knee deep mud. So I skip most of it and look for the people I respect. Unfortunately, many of them seem to have withdrawn lately. I can see why Helen might be reluctant to post anything new.
In one of your earlier posts you wrote about dealing with RW propaganda floods. I’m familiar with the process because I have a RW acquaintance who sends me missives that are classic hyperventilating screeds that I “must read”. He is a full time follower of Fox News and hate radio and although I’ve told him I’m not interested and not to send me any more he ignores my request and his persistence has led to some unanticipated and ugly consequences.
Early last week he sent me one about the 28th Amendment that went into the trash bin on arrival. No interest, no big deal. But then a few days later my in box was filled with a whole series of RW propaganda pieces from unknown sources.
I’ve always tried to protect my personal e-mail address and have not been bothered by spammers because, for one reason, I give it out sparingly and use several junk e-mail addresses for other purposes. So when I looked at the source code for some of the unwanted messages I found that some had origins that were identical. Not only that, I found that these spammers could all be traced back to the 28th Amendment screed I had gotten several days earlier.
My RW friend had forwarded an e-mail that had been reforwarded at least six times. The object of the original sender was to send the message to 20 friends who in turn were to forward it to 20 more friends and on and on, in a typical pyramid scheme. When I looked at the routing background, it had the e-mail addresses of everyone along the way who had gotten a copy of the reforwarded original. There was a total of over a hundred e-mail addresses and a couple of them I could trace to the later junk I got.
I’ve set up some blocks to get rid of most of them but I’m afraid that my personal e-mail address is now out there somewhere in the hands of some of the last people in the world I would want to have it. Spammers love to intercept messages like those because it gives them a ready list of potential suckers they can send a personalized pitch to.
If you really need to forward an e-mail, and to avoid getting caught up in that sort of maelstrom, it is best to copy and paste the message into a new message and then use the e-mail blind carbon copy function (BCC) for the “To” address box.
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By: jsri on July 22, 2010
at 12:55 PM
Don’t get too excited Poolman, I’m still an agnostic until there is proof one way or another (doubt that will ever happen), but the Bible has certain truths, and one is that the wealthy never think they are rich enough.
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By: no one's puppet on July 22, 2010
at 12:42 PM
no one’s puppet, you’re quoting the Bible? I love it! Money and wealth are one of the primary topics of that book. As believers we are taught that it ALL belongs to Him, we are just the stewards. The rest of that passage goes on to say, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” And a lot of folks think wrongly that the book claims that money is evil. It does say that the LOVE OF MONEY is – big difference and goes along with greed, selfishness, entitlement, etc. There is also much instruction regarding the handling of such and the whole ownership and usury principles – not the same as government required contributions or distributions.
And as far as religion goes, there are radicals in every group. Even though Jews, Christians, and Muslims all cling to the very same God, you can see we don’t always all get along. Those who claim Muslims are trying to erradicate all “infidels” and that it is a religion of hate, haven’t read the Koran. True Islam is a religion of peace – but then, so is Christianity. You would never know it by most of recorded history, or by those claiming to be members of the faith.
I was reading chapter 5 of Matthew the other day and couldn’t see how any of the republicans I knew could call themselves Christian, especially when you get to verse 44. I guess they haven’t read that part of the manual or they feel it applies to others – not them.
Still watching the skies for Nibiru. It’s inbound and that’s pretty exciting. You can run, but you cannot hide.
😀
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By: poolman on July 22, 2010
at 12:22 PM
, you’re very correct about the beginning of the end for the GOP was the religious right. The GOP allowed one fringe element of their party to have WAyyyyyy too much influence in their policy. The ironic thing is the rright is leaving them in droves because they realize the party has done nothing for them, other than give them lip service. The party hasn’t been able (or unwilling) to move the rrights agenda one inch.
Now they have the Tea baggers and the party is making the same mistake. (usually it’s my side who doesn’t learn their lesson! it’s kinda nice to sit back and watch it happen on the other side for a change! )LOL The baggers are sooooo far out of main stream it will be very difficult for them to win a national election, running as a tea partier, they just don’t have mass appeal, imho, especially if they don’t put a lid on crazy aunt Virginia’s pots. They also need to run FOR something, time and time again it has been proven you can’t win on ANTI – everything… You have to be FOR something. The only hope they (GOP) has is the TB’s can’t raise the money they need and they will have to rely on the party to fund their individual races, that will force the TB’s to be more compliant to the establishment. You are already seeing that with Rand Paul.
If the party leaders’ don’t start denouncing these nut bags and carnival barkers and wrestling back the power they are in real trouble though. They are in the midst of a power vacuum it will be interesting to see who or what emerges on the other side.
The TB’s have push them so far right its very difficult to see how the moderate republican’s (all 5 of them LOL) can fit in the party.
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By: lori on July 22, 2010
at 12:21 PM
Your comment was spot on Delurker!
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By: lori on July 22, 2010
at 12:00 PM
alaskapi –
I interpreted delurkergurl’s comment as sarcasm.
If I felt the mosque’s being built in that location was anything other than blatant aggression, I would say let it be. But Islam’s – and I don’t just mean Radical Islam – goal is domination, plain and simple. (like another desert religion, I might add) They pursue a multi-tentacled program of violence, intimidation and hyper-breeding combined with a feigned hypersensitivity to criticism in order to bully their way into dominance everywhere in the world. And they are doing it with the cooperation of their victims, who are themselves hypersensitive about being considered racist or intolerant.
I for one will have none of it. PC can go to hell. These people are too technologically backward to eventually prevail, but if the modern world fails recognize the threat, bolt its head on straight and meet this challenge head-on now, they will EVENTUALLY have to do it anyway. This is a perfect replay of the ‘thirties, when Churchill tried to warn the Parliament about the Nazs and was ignored. You know how that ended.
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By: PFesser53 on July 22, 2010
at 10:55 AM
PFessor53, you made several comments I agree with this morning, The Republican Party has got to redefine their principles, the religious right eroded the GOP to the point they are unrecognizable. I also agree with you about book learning, history and culture are complex and are not taught or learned on a visit.
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By: no one's puppet on July 22, 2010
at 9:26 AM
oh- sorry about all the spellos this morning… sheesh
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By: alaskapi on July 22, 2010
at 9:19 AM
I understood yours delurkergurl…
🙂
Wasn’t expilicit enough myself
Forgot the intro line which is :
PFesser-
whatever is true about humans being self serving has an opposite face in group dealings…
We live, most of us with one foot in each part of the human world… but all too often get to leaning too hard on one foot or the other…
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By: alaskapi on July 22, 2010
at 9:18 AM
Alaskapi, you lost me – would you clarify? My post was an illustration, of course.
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By: delurkergurl on July 22, 2010
at 9:13 AM
Assuming one’s synthesis of a set of facts is the full truth is a human failing…
A failing which has multiple threads, not the least of which is ignoring that, without endless “peer review”, underlying assumptions about causal relationships can take on the cloak of fact.
Yarding up the broken person , McVeigh, to bolster a stance …
sheesh…
am betting this has become more about competiveness than philosophy with that one…
What did Ted Bundy have to say about religion if we are going to go this route…?
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By: alaskapi on July 22, 2010
at 8:59 AM
Nice try.
“Science is my religion.” — Timothy McVeigh
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By: PFesser53 on July 22, 2010
at 8:42 AM
The proposed YMCA (Young Men’s Christian Association) recreational facility, located just 7 blocks from the site of the bombed Murrah federal building, has gathered the attention of politicians, the media and citizens everywhere. Tweeted one former politician from far across the country, “Peace loving Christians, understand this is a slap in the face!” because the terrorists behind the bombing were Christians.
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By: delurkergurl on July 22, 2010
at 8:19 AM
Jean said –
” – snippity snip – former West or East or now Unified Germany and the industrious, prosperous society they have carved out for themselves from the chaos of WWII and its afterrmath.”
Guess again. West Germany indeed underwent an “economic miracle” after WWII, and after reunification that miracle continued, although there were quite a few bumps in the road. There were tremendous problems incorporating the East German economy and those who had lived under communism. Note I said “incorporating the East German.” West Germany basically absorbed the other, inefficient system and discarded it. It did NOT happen the other way.
For the average West German, life after reunification did not change much. For the average East German, the change was profound. (Maybe you should do some reading before you visit these places…just a suggestion.)
and further opined: “It is apparent he has never seen first hand either the former West or East or now Unified Germany”
I’m glad you get to travel, but that does not make you any more an expert on the places you visit than visiting a hospital makes you a doctor. (or as we like to say ’round here, “If the cat had kittens in the oven, we wouldn’t call ’em biscuits.”) My brother was always spouting about “book l’arnin'” and how “experience is the best teacher.”
Nonsense. If you want to know about something you have to start with study. Experience alone only teaches you how to do it wrong – over and over.
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By: PFesser53 on July 22, 2010
at 7:46 AM
You make me chuckle Auntie Jean.. thank you for that.. sending good vibes for the boy toy’s procedure Friday!
I hadn’t read that speech Poolman thank you for posting that link. I reposted it on my FB. I donno, but I think that young lady is gonna be just fine, don’t you? We will be in good hands…
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By: lori on July 22, 2010
at 7:02 AM
Roz –
Points well-taken. No argument with anything.
Be sure that I am thoroughly disgusted with Washington, and that it is a footrace as to whether the Democrats or ReBiblicans take first place. I’m probably more irritated with the ReBiblicans, since that used to be my party and – like Reagan and the Democrats – I feel I did not leave them; they left ME. I have not abandoned my principles over the past forty years; they have.
Despite my disgust with their insinuation of fundamentalist religion into American politics, I had held my nose and voted ReBiblican for the last four elections prior to 2008, but the selection of Sarah Palin as a vice-presidential candidate was just too much. Yes, Obama’s resume is very thin, but there is a fundamental difference between him and Sarah Palin: He is well-educated – editor of Harvard Law Review – the top of the top; she doesn’t know basic geography, or apparently, basic English. The fundamental curiosity about the world that any high officeholder must have is woefully absent in Sarah Palin – along with the basic knowledge of same.
I would put it at even money whether John McCain could have finished ONE term in office; the thoughts of having someone as president who thinks the world will end in her lifetime and then giving her the nuclear codes to make that happen were just too much for me, and I reluctantly voted for Barack Obama.
While IMHO Obama has been an unmitigated disaster, my only consolation is that Sarah Palin would be infinitely worse. If the ReBiblicans field her as their next presidential candidate, I am going to make that Hobson’s choice again and – once again – vote against my old party.
And I am not alone.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 22, 2010
at 6:37 AM
Ooops! financial would be the correct spelling. Sorry!
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By: Roz on July 22, 2010
at 5:45 AM
I’m not advocating for welfare or communist states…that’s clearly not an improvement.
By the way, East Germany was a communist not a socialist state.
It seems to me that we want a government that is of the people, by and for the people….ALL the people. Our political system no longer represents people, it represents monied interests. Bottom line, even if we call it a democracy or whatever, we need to pay close attention to who/whom our politicians serve. I think the answer is clear. The democrats are far from perfect but there have been efforts to represent the interests of the people in the health care, fanancial reform bill, etc. Watering down the bills to very imperfect legislation has been mostly because of Republican obstruction.
By the way, those folks in Scandinavia, who live under socialist governments have been found to be the happiest countries in the world…even with 6 months or more of darkness. Hmmm….
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By: Roz on July 22, 2010
at 5:40 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I put this up here some time ago from my ‘Priceless File’. It seems appropriate to rerun it about now, dontcha think?
A woman was at her hairdresser’s getting her hair styled for a trip to Rome with her husband. She mentioned the trip to the hairdresser, who responded:
“Rome? Why would anyone want to go there? It’s crowded and dirty. You’re crazy to go to Rome. So, how are you getting there?”
“We’re taking Lusthansa,” was the reply. “We got a great rate!”
“Lufthansa?” exclaimed the hairdresser. “That’s a terrible airline. Their planes are old, their flight attendants are ugly, and they’re always late. You’ll never see your luggage again. So, where are you staying in Rome?”
“We’ll be at this exclusive little place over on Rome’s Tiber River called ‘Teste’.”
“Don’t go any further. I know that place. Everybody thinks its gonna be something special and exclusive, but it’s really a dump.”
“We’re going to go to see the Vatican and maybe get to see the Pope.”
“That’s rich,” laughed the hairdresser. You and a million other people trying to see him. He’ll look the size of an ant. Boy, good luck on this lousy trip of yours. You’re going to need it.”
A month later, the woman again came in for a hairdo. The hairdresser asked her about her trip to Rome.
“It was wonderful,” explained the woman, “not only were we on time in one of Lufthansa’s brand new planes, but it was overbooked, and they bumped us up to first class. The food and wine were outstanding, complimentary of course even in coach class. And I had a handsome 28-year-old steward who waited on me hand and foot. Our luggage was the first off the carousel. The hotel was great! They’d just finished a $500 million remodeling job, and now it’s a jewel, the finest hotel in the city. They, too, were overbooked, so they apologized and gave us their owner’s suite at no extra charge!”
“Well,” muttered the hairdresser, “that’s all well and good, but I know you didn’t get to see the Pope.”
“Actually, we were quite lucky, because as we toured the Vatican, a Swiss Guard tapped me on the shoulder, and explained that the Pope likes to meet some of the visitors, and if I’d be so kind as to step into his private room and wait, the Pope would personally greet me. Sure enough, five minutes later, the Pope walked through the door and shook my hand! I knelt down and he spoke a few words to me.”
“Oh, really! What’d he say?”
He said: “Who messed up your hair?”
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 22, 2010
at 2:06 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I am LMAO at the bullshit being put out by one self-styled ‘expert’, basing his lopsided opinion of his long ago youth in one teeny-tiny little corner of the U.S. It is apparent he has never seen first hand either the former West or East or now Unified Germany and the industrious, prosperous society they have carved out for themselves from the chaos of WWII and its afterrmath.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 22, 2010
at 1:33 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
This is one Old White Polar Bear Mama who doesn’t like one bit what is happening to the Polar Ice Cap, the habitat of my species since forever. I will do whatever it takes to defend my grown up cubs and their young cubs too!
So don’t mess with Old White Polar Bear Mamas!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 22, 2010
at 1:18 AM
Recognize the words,” its harder for a rich man to enter heaven, than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle”? Think of it, those of us who care about our fellow man are just looking out for the wealthy. Feel better?
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By: no one's puppet on July 21, 2010
at 10:29 PM
Poolman,
“We wear the white hats, you know. And we wonder why our nation is in such deep doo doo.”
So which country do you most identify with?
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By: craig on July 21, 2010
at 9:17 PM
Roz –
Your points are well-taken.
OTOH, having grown up in WV in the 1950’s – 60’s I got a first hand look at the consequences of a welfare (socialist) system. I saw a very proud group of mountain Scotsmen, German, Irish, English slowly turn into wastrels after they were put on the dole – fields idle and grown up with weeds, pregnant girls running about, filth and squalor everywhere. This socialist experiment has been tried and tried again – and has failed; people work best when they work for self-interest. The ultimate twin experiment is Germany; many in West Germany wish they had never seen the East – that socialist system has destroyed the industrious German psyche there.
There are several soliloquies in Atlas Shrugged that so perfectly stress the need for a free society, without the meddlers trying to achieve “fairness” by fiat. Their meddling assures poverty for everybody. As the old saw goes, the problem with capitalism is that it distributes the wealth so unevenly. The problem with socialism is that it distributes the misery so perfectly.
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 21, 2010
at 7:29 PM
PFesser53, Life is certainly not fair. If it were, perhaps we’d all be gorgeous and wealthy- or the opposite. I always made sure to teach that principle to my first grade students.
However, there is right and wrong. I don’t believe that taxing the rich is class envy. It’s simply, in my opinion, a moral/ethical consideration that those who have so much contribute/pay taxes to the country/government that has made it possible to accumulate their wealth. This goes for individuals and for corporations. We teach this principle to our children so that they become responsible social and moral beings. Why should we ignore these concepts once adulthood is reached?
I certainly don’t envy the wealthy. They worked hard (but their children won’t have to) to earn their money. I do however, feel that by paying a progressive/proportionate share of the tax burden on us all, that they are investing in their country that was helpful to them in accruing their wealth. Why is patriotism so often viewed as a military response? Paying taxes is to support one’s government (by the way, that’s us) is definitely another form of patriotism.
And, by the way, my husband ran a small business for many years that hired, depending on the economy, between 5-7 employees. My dad and uncle also ran a small business employing 5-7 workers. They weren’t wealthy either. They were however, ethical businessmen that didn’t use greed as their guiding principle.
And now that I think of it, it’s kind of mathematical. When I taught fractions I helped the students undertand the concept of equal parts by using the term fair share. I think it behooves us all to keep an eye on the economic pie with that conept. It may be unrealistic (and oh my gosh- socialism) to think we can achieve fair share, but we can pay attention to the consequences of our beliefs and actions.
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By: Roz on July 21, 2010
at 5:06 PM
I just ran across this article and remembered we did breach this subject on this looooonnnngggg thread. Valedictorian speaks out against schooling in a graduation speech. You want to know what is wrong with our society? This speaks to much of it. We don’t see a pattern here? That’s okay, I guess. Despite having some outstanding teachers on this blog and in our lives, the system is the same. Ignorance they say, is bliss. 😉 Maybe it’s time for another dose of Carlin.
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By: poolman on July 21, 2010
at 5:05 PM
Auntie Jean – the Native Americans you were talking about were Navajo and called Code Talkers I think. Navajo live in New Mexico and ARizona.
Wonderful stories about them were written by Tony Hillerman. Great mystery stories.
Hillerman passed away I think this spring.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 21, 2010
at 4:50 PM
Our ongoing foreign policy in these strategic countries always involves the same tactics. All in the name of democracy and nation building. Yeah, we’re the good guys. We wear the white hats, you know. And we wonder why our nation is in such deep doo doo.
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By: poolman on July 21, 2010
at 4:41 PM
Poolman
About that quality thingy…
There is no such thing in America anymore.
We were remodeling our kitchen.
So last Jan 31st, I bought all new top of the line GE Profile series appliances.
Dishwasher
Double oven
Microwave
Refrigerator
5 moths later…
The dishwasher went out June 27th.
Been waiting for a “pump drain assembly” for three weeks..nobody can find one.
The refrigerator also started putting out whole ice when we wanted crushed. The repair man came for the Fridge today. He said the ice bin and auger was bad. He would order a new one and have it delivered to me and for me to just junk the old one.
As to the Dishwasher.
I and my sales associate have been on the phone for the past three weeks trying to get answers.
I have talked to three different call centers in North Carolina,Louieville Ky.,
and Rapid City S. Dakota. Been promised everything..nuthing delivered.
I special delivered a letter to the Corporate offices of GE Manager of Customer services and with a copy to the CEO of both GE and Lowes.
This was received yesterday.
At 8:30am today I received a call from GE corporate telling me they had received my letter and that they had found the part. I then informed the lady that milkey water had been standing in the washer for three weeks. What would the status of all the parts that were continually under water do to the rest of the machine?
The next comment from her was “would you like a new unit? Yes. Its being delivered 300 miles from dallas tomorrow and installed on Friday.
Now I purchased extended warranties on all these appliances as well. I’m glad I did.
But for all those Apple fans out there.
CONSUMER reports rated my dishwasher as second from the top..so so much for consumer reports status as well.
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By: craig on July 21, 2010
at 4:18 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Dawn,
Sistah Dawn, I’ll spread the word, “Don’t feed the fish – period!” And why. Thank you for the tips.
I do hope your husband’s job situation will be straightened out soon. Sadly, stories like yours are legion right now. It sounds as if you are both working hard and doing your very best to get through this. Kudos to you!
How interesting that your friend got our island started on the Kamalani playground. It is a huge hit with all the parents and kids who live here as well as the tourist families. Adjacent to Lydgate swimming and snorkeling, there is also an extensive bike path. They are beautifully maintained by the county and volunteers. All free! This just goes to show you what can be accomplished by community organization. There are plenty of free or inexpensive entertainments everywhere for families to do in this tough economy if all of us get the word out on what and where they are.
A few years back our PA son and his family were visiting. We ‘did’ all the usual sightseeing and activities. When we were leaving on the way to the airport, his mother asked him what he had liked best about this vacation. He was about 4 and shouted, “Kamalani!!!” He even pronounced it correctly!
Friday my husband goes in for his Epidural Prednisone Shot for his Spinal Stenosis. We will be seeing nurses like you, Sistah Dawn. Well-trained, experienced professionals who are invariably cheerful and friendly. He will be in good hands.
For now, we are hobbling off to the Big Cities to buy out Costco, etc., to stock up for when our CA son and family arrive next week. We are checking off our to-do list, one by one!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 21, 2010
at 4:13 PM
No one’s puppet, as I said, I was glad the benefits were extended. My point was that it isn’t government money that is going into it, except that it becomes government money and is distributed through them. Every business that has employees is required to pay in a certain amount based on their payroll. When being drawn out, it has to be replenished. Call it a labor cost, I don’t care. All costs have to be covered.
The running joke we always had when we were assessed increases in fees or for materials was, “pass the savings on down to the customer”. Any increase in labor, material, or overhead costs have to result in an increase to the end user. The burden first impacts the business, while most are struggling right now to retain employees and still operate in the black. Unlike our government, things have to balance in most businesses. By raising prices in the market, you generally lose customers to the competition or people forgo purchases. This is especially true with the non essential products and services.
My answer is that capitalism has run its course and we must move on to something else. We have been trained from preschool to be a worker society and the system is rigged. Marketing has succeeded in getting us to consume more than any people in the history of the planet. Everything from smoking cigarettes to our need for the latest techno-gadget fixes. Capitalism requires a continuing growing marketplace of consumers with disposable incomes. We don’t offer that anymore. In order to keep profitable, many companies went elsewhere for cheap labor and lax regulations. We let them and continue to support them and that practice with our continued purchases.
Years ago, manufacturers determined to make products with a built-in “life” to assure future purchases and profits. This lowered quality and therefore overall value. Now we have to replace them as they generally last for the warranty period only. Integrity fell to the bottom line.
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By: poolman on July 21, 2010
at 3:39 PM
correction much of the decretionary spending (12 percent) was due to a 12 percent increase in DOD.
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By: lori on July 21, 2010
at 3:00 PM
2009 was a gwb budget.
2010, Obama’s budget
discresctionary spending was up 13.1 percent.
mandatory spending up 15 percent
Obama put the 2 wars on the books. So much of that 15 percent increase was due to a 12 percent increase in the department of defense. GWB conviencely left them off.
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By: lori on July 21, 2010
at 2:56 PM
In a bid to stem taxpayer losses for bad loans guaranteed by federal housing agencies Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac, Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) proposed that borrowers be required to make a 5% down payment in order to qualify. His proposal was rejected 57-42 on a party-line vote
…….because, as Senator Chris Dodd (D-Conn) explained, “passage of such a requirement would restrict home ownership to only those who can afford it.”
I can’t add anything to this
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By: craig on July 21, 2010
at 2:46 PM
Lori wrote:
“We got to where we are by waging 2 unfunded wars and by giving tax cuts for the upper 2 percent of the country.”
The tax cuts don’t bother me; that’s just class envy. I have never been given a job by a poor man – always by a rich one. Money that stays in a producer’s hand goes back into his business typically. We saw that when the class warfare people thought it would be a good idea to tax yachts and the end result was that rich folks simply spent their money elsewhere and put thousands of shipbuilding craftsmen out of work.
As for the two unfunded wars, I agree absolutely. Not a single word of argument there.
“We got to where we are by banks over leveraging and lending money they did not have.”
Agreed. I would add, “-to people who could not afford to pay it back, but lent it anyway because the pseudo-government agencies, Fannie and Freddie told them to do it or else.”
“We got to where we are by GWB not bailing out AIG for political reasons and allowing the house of cards to fall down around him…”
If it’s too big to fail, it’s too big to exist. Death of the weak is just as important as prosperity for the strong. Let them fail. That’s how any economic system works.
“NOT by extending unemployment benefits.”
Agreed. I think you support your people. Unemployment benefits are like shock absorbers on a car; they level out the highs and lows. MY experience is that nearly every person on unemployment wants to work and would if they could find it.
“We had a 42 percent.. yes 42 percent……. spending increase in 2001!”
Didn’t know that. No question GWB was a bloody disaster all ’round. No argument there.
BTW, just out of curiosity, what has it been since 20 Jan 2009?
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 21, 2010
at 2:23 PM
Lori, I live in Texas.
In 2001, I believe I received just shy of three months
of benefits. That was approximately $300 and change each week. You could phone in your work search for proof that you were earnestly looking.
I had worked at the same company for 20 years and three months.
No One’s Puppet,
Let me have your address and I will tell the people who have run out of benefits to write you so they may give you their names and place to send a check each week.
Do you think there are any out there who just want to sit on the apartment stoop,receive their check so they can get their cigarettes and beer
and hopefully have enough till the welfare checks
come in?
At what point does society say enough?
Perhaps Obama should have instituted a “works progress program” instead of a blank check for
continued citizens ..some of which do not want to work. Would you admit that there are those in such a category?
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By: craig on July 21, 2010
at 2:06 PM
No One’s Puppet, don’t be dramatic. 😛
The unemployed do not have to starve on the street and keel over on hospital steps! They can burn through all of their retirement savings and their kids college funds. Once that is gone, they can go on welfare and get food stamps and medicaid while they default on their debts. Special bonus is that they can be called lazy deadbeats, while repeatedly being one of the 9 in 10 people who aren’t selected for each job they apply for.
Eventaully, if they have to declare bankruptcy then everyone loses with them.
Once they lose their homes, I don’t think they can get those services though. Then they can go to the overcrowded homeless shelters, eat at soup kitchens, and visit our overburdened emergency rooms if they get sick.
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By: delurkergurl on July 21, 2010
at 2:03 PM
We got to where we are by waging 2 unfunded wars and by giving tax cuts for the upper 2 percent of the country. We got to where we are by banks over leveraging and lending money they did not have. We got to where we are by GWB not bailing out AIG for political reasons and allowing the house of cards to fall down around him…
NOT by extending unemployment benefits.
We had a 42 percent.. yes 42 percent……. spending increase in 2001!
I’m sorry for your troubles Dawn… Sending all positive thoughts your way.
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By: lori on July 21, 2010
at 1:54 PM
dawn –
Thanks for the heads-up on feeding the fish. I dive in the ocean occasionally and hadn’t thought of that.
About ten years ago I did some scuba off the east coast on a wrecked WWII German sub. It was wonderful, but two-hour ride out in rough seas had several of us inadvertently feeding the fish I’m afraid off the fantail of the boat! (grin) Interesting, though, after we got in the water all the seasickness just vanished.
Bless your heart about the unemployment. I have a nephew with three small kids who has been unemployed since the crash. It is so demoralizing for him. Fortunately his wife works as a teacher, but they are barely making it. You were talking about your husband having a degree; my nephew has an MBA, but the jobs aren’t out there. First you have to take care of small business, since they create the jobs. The elite at the big banks and the govt just make me ill. It’s almost a “let them eat cake” attitude. Grrr…..
It seems to me that what is good policy for a family can scarcely be ill for a country. I see Paul Krugman – Nobel prizewinner in economics – pushing for more and more borrowing and spending and it just seems to me that’s how we got where we are. I think the unemployment extension was a good idea though, even if it means more borrowing. I’m pretty irritated at the Repuglicans right now for their disingenuous attempts to block it because it was “fiscally irresponsible.” Yeah right. Like anyone thinks they really believe that.
Good luck to you and your family.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 21, 2010
at 1:14 PM
So what is the answer Poolman and craig, we just let the unemployed starve on the street, keel over on the hospital steps?
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By: no one's puppet on July 21, 2010
at 1:14 PM
A few things
Auntie Jean, a while back you posted about Lydgate Park and snorkling. The Kamalani playground was inspired by a friend there who visited here and saw a playground our community built.
Regarding snorkling, one shouldn’t take ANY food to feed the fish. It makes them dependent on humans and susceptible to diseases especially if human hands touch them and remove a protective coating they have.
Regarding unemployment benefits…sorry as I am to say this, I am so grateful it will probably pass. My husband has been underemployed for 2 years and unemployed since Dec 21(merry Christmas) He has sent out resumes/applied for between 40-60 jobs in the meantime. We were so excited when he got ONE call back 2 weeks ago. Sadly, he got the “Sorry Charlie” email yesterday.
He has gone back to school and gotten his degree, but I fear between his age, and the economy it is an endeavor that will be ultimately only for personal satisfaction.
So, we continue to live frugally, I work extra in the ER when I can, and will pick up an extra nursing job here and there where I can.
I for one am thankful for the unemployment compensation and however it gets paid.
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By: dawn on July 21, 2010
at 12:07 PM
When state unemployment funds (pools) have been depleted the federal government can loan the individual States monies to bridge the gap. That loan must be paid back with in a specific amount of time. The individual states will then determine the course of action. That can vary from state to state.
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By: lori on July 21, 2010
at 11:00 AM
delurkergurl, I saw the Rachael Maddow piece regarding that gal. I think this administration should not have kowtowed to this BS and needs to grow a set of cajones. There was no reason to let her go. I am tired of seeing this administration let the wingers push them around. It is quite frustrating.
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By: poolman on July 21, 2010
at 10:45 AM
The employer has to makeup any funds pulled out of the “pool” by his former employees. The largest amount available to me 5 years ago was 270 a week, even though my salary at that time was about 1800 per week. So BIG difference. It wasn’t enough to cover the regular expenses we had at the time. The reason I filed aside from being fired was to get back at that employer who owed me much more than I was going to receive through these bennies, but I knew he had to contribute well over 300 weekly while I was drawing that pay. Additionally, it requires that you are constantly looking for work – you have to prove it and claim on record that you are trying and haven’t received any other offers or income. While I was testing for a contractor’s license and going through the wait period, I was still supposed to be looking for work to keep the bennies coming. I kept telling them that I was not going to work for someone else, that my intent was to work for myself, yet on record I had to claim I was actively seeking employment. It’s a f**ked system and far from efficient.
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By: poolman on July 21, 2010
at 10:39 AM
Just to set the record straight.
LORI knows everything about everything.
So if the employer has paid all that he accumulated to pay out for unemployment insurance…..
Where does the balance come from to continue to pay the unemployed of that company?
The government. That’s you and me, LORI.
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By: craig on July 21, 2010
at 10:24 AM
Did anyone see Rachel Maddow’s piece last night about Shirley Sherrod? Infuriating. Rachel did a good job. FOX fabricates news, and the administration falls for it. Infuriating.
PS – Lori, thank you for the simple explanation of how unemployment insurance works.
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By: delurkergurl on July 21, 2010
at 5:35 AM
Another great article in the Times today on the origins of the words “liberal” and “progressive.” (amusing, awful and artificial – not what you think)
BTW today is the 85th anniversary of Scopes’ conviction in the “Monkey Trial,” for you history buffs.
Jim
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By: pfesser53 on July 21, 2010
at 4:56 AM
JUst to set the record straight…
The unemployment tax the employers pay is considered a labor cost. The premiums paid to employees are part of the employee’s compensation package which increases the longer they are employed until they max out.
The average unemployment check is about 300 a week.
Employers base their compensation packaged based on all labor costs… or at least the successful ones do!
I repeat…….Unemployment compensation, just as any benefit extended to employee’s, is considered, by most accountants as part of the total compensation package.. hence a labor cost.
An employer’s premium is determined by its past layoff/claims history and – the more people the employer has claiming unemployment over time, the higher the premiums paid. The employer pays the premium for each worker on its payroll.
The notion that unemployment is “welfare” would be like saying an employee’s paycheck is welfare. That, of course is just welllllll silly.
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By: lori on July 21, 2010
at 4:54 AM
Poolman –
I know you are up on the energy/oil debate. Great article by Tom Friedman in today’s Times:
He really takes the Repuglicans to task. I read his book, Hot Flat and Crowded last year and it changed my POV completely. The thing I like about Friedman is that he does not self-identify as conservative or liberal – just as a man in pursuit of the truth. Very thoughtful and knowledgeable fellow.
BTW, the above anonymous post is mine. When I’m in my private email account I sometimes forget that the name/email field doesn’t auto-fill.
Jim
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By: pfesser53 on July 21, 2010
at 4:42 AM
Poolman –
I got a little chuckle from your post:
“I am greatful that the extension of unemployment benefits passed, though it is just a bandaid where we need a tourniquet. If you were an employer, you would realize that the unemployment benefits come from your own required contributions, so this does not help struggling businesses who are just barely hanging in there. Guess who gets to replenish those funds? Yeah. As a nation of primarily employees, most are somewhat removed from that reality tidbit, like the true cost of health insurance.”
Right on, Brother! Being a greybeard has its advantages. Having been both employee and employer, I’m always surprised by how little employees understand what happens in order to bring them a paycheck, and how a small businessman’s and his family’s futures are at risk every day. However the redistributionists don’t care about THEM. The socialist’s only interest in business is using them as a source of money, but you_eventually_run_out-of-other-people’s_money.
I’m usually up at around 4 a.m. and read before work. I will typically read a book/week – two in wintertime. I hadn’t read Atlas Shrugged since college, and decided to re-read it for the 50th anniversary. Rand had it perfectly: the parasites have an unbounded disdain for the producers and constantly clamor to “stick it to the rich” – rich being defined as someone who has more than I. But unfortunately as taxes go up, the producers begin to cut back their work, *reducing* the parasites’ take. I worked for a surgeon in the late seventies; he had it calculated to the dollar. For high-income individuals, PR (pre-Reagan) marginal tax rates were in the eighty-percent range, if memory serves. When his earnings put him into a certain tax bracket, he shut down his practice and took the rest of the year off – about five months a year. We’re headed there again. It is to nobody’s advantage to incentivise producers to *stop* working, but that’s where we are going once again.
When taxes went up in the nineties I closed my practice and spent six years in electrical engineering school, playing with my two young sons, taking the summers off and paying NO taxes. Now I’m converting to a low-income lifestyle again and when the Obama tax kicks in, I will spend my days playing with my grandchildren. The problem with taking other people’s money is that they can *react* and they do. Oh well, I guess the socialists never learn.
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By: Anonymous on July 21, 2010
at 3:12 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, lori, Poolman, Mirror Man and gramma rock,
Sistah lori, ‘(‘con su permisso’), you are keeping me on my toes deciphering blog speak! ‘Fan’ means approval or something like that?
Bruddah Poolman (‘con su permisso también’), I’ll bet you can translate that, huh. I’m glad you are back and continuing at least to try to keep the powers-that-be honest. That’s a tall order.
Mirror Man, we will be having another celebration soon here on the porch when President Obama signs the Unemployment Compensation Bill. Do you think you could whip up some Tex Mex in addition to our tea, pie and wine? We loved Tex Mex during the years we lived in Texas. The closest we can get out here is Taco Hell. Yuck! We do have a few half way decent authentic Mexican restaurants but one of them goes pretty heavy on the cilantro.
My husband got going on old war stories this afternoon and somehow we would up talking about a famous Native American Unit during WWII. The Allies and the Axis were busy breaking each other’s secret communication codes right and left. There was one unit made up of a Southwestern Tribe that came up with a code based on their language that no one was ever able to break. gramma rock, do you happen to remember which tribe that was? If I remember correctly, your late husband was a Korean vet just as my husband is.
After fighting for the country they loved, and some of them dying, they were sent back to their reservations to live their lives as less than second-class American citizens. It was the same practice the African American and Japanese American citizens were subjected to. The units were segregated of course. Those are shameful stains on the American Flag.
We seem to always need a ‘Group du Jour’ to pick on and dishonor. Is that supposed to shore up ever so weak egos and make us feel superior? Maybe someday we can live up to our promises and at last achieve true equality.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 21, 2010
at 1:24 AM
We have a real douche bag on the porch tonight, kind of convenient though, they can give their self an enema, because they are really full of it, if you know what I mean.
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By: no one's puppet on July 20, 2010
at 10:01 PM
Poolman,
“oligarchy”
As in Chicago based politics running our President like a Puppet?
Kinda like finding a black in a haystack to run in South Carolina politics?
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By: craig on July 20, 2010
at 9:06 PM
Poolman,
I’ll let ya know when I get back from Italy in October.
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By: craig on July 20, 2010
at 9:01 PM
Fan that Auntie Jean!
WB poolman, you were missed, I hope whatever took you away has been resolved in a positive way.
You’re right about a loss of freedoms and we are slipping further and further behind most of our European friends in terms of quality of life too. ;-( and yes it is because of corporations owning our politicians.
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By: lori on July 20, 2010
at 5:32 PM
Craig, I’ve been to Europe, albeit not as many places as Auntie Jean has. I think an honest assessment of their countries and government would show that many live better than we do, and now with a lot more freedoms. And most have been at it for much longer than we have. If you really think this a democracy, though it was set up as a republic, then you need more larnin’. Equal representation…really? Maybe for corporations. We are more a fascist oligarchy.
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By: poolman on July 20, 2010
at 5:15 PM
Hello everyone. I took a few days away from the internet and technology, though not by my choice. I was hoping, as many others have expressed, Helen would have resurfaced by now.
I am greatful that the extension of unemployment benefits passed, though it is just a bandaid where we need a tourniquet. If you were an employer, you would realize that the unemployment benefits come from your own required contributions, so this does not help struggling businesses who are just barely hanging in there. Guess who gets to replenish those funds? Yeah. As a nation of primarily employees, most are somewhat removed from that reality tidbit, like the true cost of health insurance.
Banks still own us. We haven’t done anything to change that. They have merely repositioned themselves along the riverbanks of the cash flow, still upstream from us. Damming and diverting, filling their coffers first. Nothing’s changed, except many some of the pollutants.
Anyone familiar with planet X aka Nibiru or Mardok? It was introduced as proven fact and with visual evidence by NASA in 1983 and now all the data has been pulled and censored. My daughter learned all about it in her advanced science classes back in HS. Its existence was mathematically determined prior to any visual observations. This is the same planet that appears in recorded history in Sumeria and many other early civilizations. Dr. Robert Sutton Harrington and Dr. Tom Van Flandern were astronomers working for the Navy. The planet was discovered when NASA’s IRAS spacecraft first captured infrared images of it back in 1983. Now they and access to the data are gone. But look at the telescopes we are putting in Antartica, the best place to observe this baby. I know, nop, just another coincidence. You’d mentioned skepticism regarding why loose lips didn’t reveal these types of things – a reason you yourself justified to doubt conspiracies. I am compiling a list of those “whistleblowers” who are not with us any longer. Fast-acting cancers and suicides seem to get most of them. My list is over a hundred-fifty so far. I’m sure that is bit of a deterent to some who might have a conscience. Kind of like JFK would be a good reason for Obama to keep stuff under wraps, IMO.
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By: poolman on July 20, 2010
at 4:59 PM
..and apparently over a democratically elected
President/Chicago styled Payola government.
I’ll take my apple pie and Hot dogs over your Danish
and coffee anyday. We’re stuck with a stick it in your ear Socialist who wants to cram his socialist agenda down Anerica’s throat.
And Auntie M..not all of us can travel the world the way you and your husband apparently have.. and at whose expense I might ask?
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By: craig on July 20, 2010
at 4:56 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Hooray!!! It passed!!!
I would like to discuss ‘Socialism’. Apparently there are an alarming number of people who don’t have a clue what it is all about but bandy the term around like it’s poison.
For openers, the Preamble of the U.S. Constitution states that “We the People……” It required the Bill of Rights to spell out exactly which Rights the Constitution applied to. Originally, only males, over the age of 21 and property owners were considered citizens eligible to vote. Certainly not slaves and not women. Those omissions were rectified much later with amendments. Unfortunately there is no mention of people over the age of 21 who have only the intelligence and emotional maturity of a 13 year-old. (No offense to 13 year-olds. I love chronological and genuine 13 year-olds.)
In the political climate today there is much talk about the Socialism of Europe that, heaven forbid, we don’t want to become. Let’s examine that. Different countries of Europe have constitutions similar, but not mirror images of the U.S. Constitution. Their constitutions are crafted to the specific needs of their countries and have been instituted by their people.
Plenty of the news we receive about Europe is negative and repeated over and over again, especially by people who have never visited those countries. Over the past 20 years of retirement we have visited most of Europe, Russia, Turkey and the Greek Isles, North Africa and much of Southeast Asia. Some of these destinations, several times. For the most part we found the countries we visited to be safe, modern and clean with fine people.
Here are a few positives: Many European countries have far more nuclear power plants than the U.S. does in answer to their energy needs. The down side to all nuclear plants is what to do with the nuclear waste. Some are finding ways to recycle the waste. France for instance has been and is working for some time on the ‘ITER for Fusion Energy’ facility. That is in conjunction with research going on at the Livermore Labs in California. That could ultimately be the answer to energy needs with no nuclear waste or the well known adverse effects of fossil fuels. It will take some time to get the bugs out. Probably not in my lifetime, but it could certainly benefit our kids and grandkids. So there is much more to French ‘Socialism’ than French Wine, Fine Food and ‘Freedom Fries’.
England gave us the Magna Charta and many of the philosophical foundations for our constitution and democracy. They have Oxford and Cambridge Universities and gave us their language. (They also gave us BP. Oh shit, never mind.)
I have been reading about the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) in Geneva, Switzerland. I don’t understand very much about it because the technology is way, way over my head, but it is certainly cutting edge in science and engineering. Switzerland has considerably more going for it than the Alps, beautiful lakes, Swiss cheese and cuckoo clocks.
Germany has the Max Planck Institute along with many fine universities. She gave us Geothe, Martin Luther, Beethoven, Freud, Wienerschnitzel and Strudel as well as the Nazis.
Scandinavia? How about the Nobel Prize from Oslo, Norway, recognizing the worldwide excellence of achievement in every field of human endeavor. And then there is Arhus with its 2000 year-old Tollman Man! The Norwegian sculptor, Gustav Vigeland is right up there with Michaelangelo in my book. Denmark gave us our beloved Victor Borge. The Danish people have a delicious sense of humor. You haven’t lived until you have had coffee and a REAL Danish in Copenhagen. Stockholm, Sweden is rightly known as the “Venice of the North.” The bronze figure of sculptor, Carl Milles’ “The Little Money Maker” is a masterpiece! The ‘Temppeliaukio’ Church in Helsinki, Finland is a marvel, hewn out of solid rock. We have a refrigerator magnet from Helsinki of a little mosquito, with the caption, “Send More Tourists. Any blood type will do!”
You can Google any of the above that interest you.
These are only a few ‘Socialist’ countries of Europe. I won’t even go into Italy. What would we do without pizza? And Spain won the World Cup!
Don’t knock it if you ain’t been there, done that and tried it!
So if I have my druthers, I’ll take Socialistic Democracy any day over a Monarchy, Dictatorship, Theocracy or Oligarchy, thank you.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 20, 2010
at 4:33 PM
OOOhhhhhh Great the Giveaway continues….
That should be good for another 250,000 votes
for the Czar.
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By: craig on July 20, 2010
at 3:56 PM
Finally – the extension passed!!! Good News!!
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By: JuneauJoe on July 20, 2010
at 3:18 PM
YAY! Delurker, I know this will be a blessed day for millions around the country! WTG dems!
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By: lori on July 20, 2010
at 2:19 PM
Gene Simmons of KISS salute to the Troops.
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By: craig on July 20, 2010
at 2:05 PM
It passed! Oh happy day!
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By: delurkergurl on July 20, 2010
at 1:56 PM
OK..so let me see if I get this right.
You want everyone to have their wellfare…I mean
unemployment benefits extended. Yes I have collected unemployment in the past and gone thru my share.
Why did I not get another slice of the pie? What impetus is there for people to try and find work, if your going to keep sending them checks each week?
At what point do you take them away from the government trough.
What do you do for the ones who lost or went thru their benefits a year ago? Do you go back and add them to the group?
I think what the “right” is trying to say is, When do you get them off the rolls?
You won’t take the money from the unspent stimulus. Why not?
Or is this the democratic way to buy votes for the November election?
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By: craig on July 20, 2010
at 1:26 PM
Fluxux forgot his meds today.
Greatdog – good mama grizzly observation! Saw the new word you invented somewhere else on the web, too. Good one. You never disappoint!
Where’s Poolman?
On the unemployment benefits extension vote – I didn’t realize that we’d still have to endure further debate before the Senate vote. Gah! And still a House vote ahead. This could drag on for a week or more! Days of people from both sides of the aisle grabbing the podium to spew hot air and point fingers. There are people’s lives in the balance here. Is there really anything new to be said at this point? Will anyone’s vote be swayed? Do we need Larry the Cable Guy to stand in front with a gavel and scream “Git’r DONE!”?
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By: delurkergurl on July 20, 2010
at 12:52 PM
fan that greytdog
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By: lori on July 20, 2010
at 11:28 AM
Did you guys hear about the teacher who allegedly lied about brain cancer to skip work? For 10 years! No Mas! Teachers are lazy and lie to skip work and I’m not tolerating it any longer. And where is the outrage from all the other teachers denouncing this racist lying faker? Nothing! Not one word. That’s because they’re alllllllllllll like that. Tossed salads! And I’m not apologizing for calling them that either. When the rest of the teachers get off their lazy lying racist asses and DENOUNCE this lazy lying racist tossed salad – THEN I’ll apologizzzzze. Until then, TOSSED SALADS! LOL 24/7! ^5 (that means that slapping in the air thing that basket-ballers to whenever they score). LOLcano.
(((((((((namaste!))))))))))))
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By: Fluxux on July 20, 2010
at 11:24 AM
A mama grizzly is known as a “sow”. Talk about pigs with lipstick, eh?
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By: Greytdog on July 20, 2010
at 11:00 AM
Goldman Sachs earnings for the quarter took a big hit because they had to pay that “huge fine” that equates to about FOUR DAYS revenue from their unscrupulous, unfettered glory days. The bad earnings news is helping the market sag today, so people are paying the price AGAIN for GS’s greed. The worse news is that they are still unfettered, legally. It’s not clear to me if the pending financial reform will actually HELP with this, or if it’ll just embolden the financial companies the way healthcare reform has emboldened the insurance companies.
PS – got it, Lori, thanks!
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By: delurkergurl on July 20, 2010
at 9:26 AM
Lori,
In response to your “Mark Williams blanket” thrown over all TEA party followers…
I would suggest that it would be similar to saying Louis Farrakhan is a supporter of President Obama.
Such as during his “Saviour’s Day speech when he said :
“Sen. Obama is not the Messiah for sure, but anytime, he gives you a sign of uniting races, ethnic groups, ideologies, religions and makes people feel a sense of oneness, that’s not necessarily Satan’s work, that is I believe the work of God.” Obama’s organization did all they could to distance them selves from this known radical.
How about Mayor Nagan of New Orleans proclaiming to make the town a chocolate town after Katrina…
or even Jesse Jackson a known suporter of Obama who used the term Hymie town to describe New York.
So I would say there are fringe elements on both sides that any legitimate organization would want to distant themselves from because of their extremist views.
But it appears that the Socialist agenda is to paint all TEA party members in a bad light by claiming they called out profanity and spat on members of Congress ..and to this day with money on the table for proof of these alleged activities, no one has yet to come forward to claim their prize.
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By: craig on July 20, 2010
at 9:19 AM
I just sent you a note Delurker.. check the time stamp…
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By: lori on July 20, 2010
at 8:08 AM
Our part of the country from Dallas to Fargo is one of the fastest growing in the country. Most of the area is run by moderates and conservatives. I don’t know if there is a connection, but our government should do the research to see what works.
KFAB Omaha reported the government has spent over $22 million putting up signs to tout the newly created jobs. A talk show host said we should consider another WPA to put the unemployed to work.
Republicans are protesting because the government still had a lot of unspent stimulus money which could be used for extended umemployment payments. It would save us from borrowing still more from China or firing up the printing presses.
Dr. Charles Krauthammer said Obama has the political skills of Clinton or Reagan. He believes Obama is a far left secular progressive surrounded by socialists and extremists. Whatever you call him, Obama is changing the United States into a European style socialist country. If he isn’t one, he will do until we find a socialist.
Obama and his allies fooled a lot of people. Compared to the beginning of his administration, a Cold Play song describes his perdicement.
“I used to rule the world.
Seas would rise when I gave the word
I used to roll the dice
feel the fear in my enemies eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing
“now the old king is dead. Long live the king.”
People couldn’t believe what I’d become…
But that was when I ruled the world.”
I can also see November from my porch.
We haven’t seen our son in two years, and he will be here tomorrow. This the last you will hear from me until his vacation ends and he goes back to California.
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By: James on July 20, 2010
at 7:41 AM
This page is getting awful to load. I wish Matthew would create an ‘open thread’ post or something like they do on some other blogs. Maybe he could put the trolls in their places by sharing the news of Margaret & Helen’s good health.
Lori, could you please email me at delurkergurl ~ at ~ hotmail ~.~ com? I have something I’d like to talk to you over the hedge instead of on the porch. 🙂 If there is a way you can indicate that you are really you and not someone else I’d appreciate that but I’m not clever enough to specify just how you could do that!
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By: delurkergurl on July 20, 2010
at 7:29 AM
Here are some ways my neighbors and I have made a difference.
I helped save a life in the service.
We fought Iowa’s DOT for three years to stop them from closing a secondary highway we needed and to replace a dangerous bridge. They said it couldn’t be done, but we did it.
My wife and I are Republican caucus chairs, and I am on the county central committee.
My wife writes grant applications and she also helped bring over $80,000 in scholarships to this year’s senior class. Several students wouldn’t have made it but for her. This year, a family gave my wife a graduation present out of appreciation for how she had helped their son. A senior girl wrote a three page letter thanking my wife for what she had done for her.
My wife started student organization to collect crayons, jackets etc. for poor students who can’t afford them. That group, the one at church and we on our own, deliver things to a shelter in Carter Lake, Iowa. In the spring, she rummages through trash cans to find coats, un mended shirts, etc students have discarded. She cleans and repairs them and stores them until she sees a student who might need something.
I write letters to the editor, and I call my senators and representative. My wife and I attend political discussions when they they are held in our county.
We both vote.
I left a lot out, and I am not bragging. I am simply illustrating Lori’s point. This is our country, and we all must work to make it better.
Professor is right. Without dissenting opinions to fight, we grow fat and lazy in an echo chamber. I think he attracted some hostility because several people couldn’t counter some of his arguments. The last refuge in such encounters is hostility and name calling.
The Tea Party is a truly revolutionary movement against the ruling class which includes Republicans and Democrats. Several Republicans were caught saying they thought the movement was dangerous. Trent Lott said if they win, Republicans must co- opt them.
They, especially Democrats, try to paint the group as racists because they know they must discredit the movement. Aside from a few extremists, the movement is not racist. To say otherwise is to lie from malice or ignorance.
The Democratic party supports far more racists than the Tea Party does.
If we judge the Democrats by the standards some impose on the Tea Party and accuse them of racism we can do the same to Democrats . After all none I have heard, including the NAACP who accused the Tea Party of racism has condemned the Black Panther rep who said white cracker babies should be killed. And that is just one example. Biden’s “clean and articulate” comment is as racist as when a white NCO’s wife said all blacks should be like my friend.
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By: James on July 20, 2010
at 7:01 AM
Hi all –
When the ReBiblicans wouldn’t listen to their own people and put forth the likes of Mama Grizzly (Grisly is more like it), many conservatives and libertarians left the ship, but it appears the ReBiblicans are learning their lesson and focusing on Small Government and Low Taxes, and leaving the idealogical crap alone, lead by two high-profile governors:
“Governors Christie (NJ) and McDonnell (VA) are governing as they campaigned, addressing the government union legacy costs and high taxes that put New Jersey in a downward spiral and eliminating the largest deficit in Virginia history without raising taxes,” Gillespie told The Daily Caller.
Without RAISING TAXES. TaxedEnoughAlready…
“Christie has rolled over significant opposition from organized labor in the state to force state employees to begin contributing to their pension funds, pass a budget with huge spending cuts to close an $11 billion deficit, and forge a compromise with Democrats to cap property tax increases at two percent a year.”
My own state (Virginia) was near bankruptcy and our new ReBiblican governor, McDonnell, has proven true to his word and now is projecting a surplus:
“McDonnell has turned a projected $1.8 billion deficit for the fiscal year that closed at the end of June into a $220 million surplus.”
Ah, maybe the ReBiblicans will come out of the wilderness and return to their roots: taking care of the average Joe working guy by Low Taxes and Small Government.
In the meantime, the socialists in the White House are trying as hard as they can to sail us off to European status. Unfortunately they haven’t read any Thatcher with their Marx; the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.
I have a news flash for them: they’re out – and the People who will have to pay that bill are pissed.
I Can See November From My Porch
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 20, 2010
at 6:52 AM
Anyone out there that can still load this page and cares about the Texas gubernatorial race.. we could use some help in Dallas and San Antonio. We have a chance to send Mr. Good Hair into retirement. LET’S DO IT! Let’s make M&H proud!
Also, we are fast approaching a 100 days out of the mid term election. This year more than ever it is so important to get involved. We have come so far and worked too hard to let it slip away because of apathy. Many of you have asked over the months how you can help in certain campaigns (KY Senate race Paul) and issues. I have posted a link to help you get started. It’s just a starting place. If organized groups aren’t your thing … that’s great too.. do your own thing… as long as you do it!
Polls have shown over and over our issues remain very popular among the American people. Where we are in trouble is in voter intensity (although that is on the rise as well). WE MUST get out the vote. If we accomplish that, we have sure victory and will retain majorities. We have a much better ground game and believe it or not, more money than the GOP, we just need to use those resources wisely. We have only just begun to achieve our goals we set a couple of years ago. Please don’t stop now. Not now, not this time.
So many people on this blog have such special talents, please don’t let them go to waste. Get involved… get connected… blog, write letters to editors, host or attend a get together with like minded people, join a phone bank, pass literature at a fair, concert, sporting event. register new voters, canvas your neighborhood…. last but not least VOTE! Every candidate in every district needs your help take nothing for granted!
Thanks …
http://my.democrats.org/page/s/volunteertx
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By: lori on July 20, 2010
at 5:20 AM
you sure did Delurker.. 😉
Antie Jean… ikr! LOL
BTW…… IKR = I know right? ❤
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By: lori on July 20, 2010
at 4:45 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Those of you who have been regular contributors to M&H for a long time know that I have discussed this before. Perhaps it bears repeating in a somewhat different context for some of the neophytes here.
Here in polyglot Hawaii, we speak a ‘Lingua Franca’ known as ‘Pigin’. Members of our ‘Calabash Family’ (immediate family and extended family of close friends) use terms of endearment for each other such as I use for ‘Bruddah Peas’, ‘Sistah Sally’ and granting permission to select friends here at M&H to address me as ‘Auntie Jean’.
Since I have been visiting this site, I have picked up plenty of the ‘blogging’ jargon that I never knew before: such as ‘BTW’, ‘IMHO’, ‘LOL’, etc. Bruddah Peas taught me how to do my Avatar. I would love to change it, but I’m not about to go through all that computerese again. It’s tough!!!
When our grandson comes out, I’m looking forward to him checking me out further on the shorthand he uses when he is ‘texting’ with his friends. It is a whole new world of writing and communicating for me.
There are certainly idioms, colloquialisms and figures of speech in every region and indeed, any language. However, there are some expressions that are universally offensive. Persons using those can be expected to be ostracized, shunned and often black balled. ‘nough said.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 19, 2010
at 9:53 PM
Miss you, Helen and Margaret. Hope to read a new piece soon. There’s so much going on and I miss your keen wit and brilliant mind.
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By: vfeatherstone on July 19, 2010
at 9:30 PM
oh that buffoon is back–the one who started the “Helen Philpot died and will be sorely missed.” One has to wonder at the level of immaturity that it takes to not only say something so juvenile but to then repeat it with a minor variation.
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By: Donna on July 19, 2010
at 8:33 PM
I hope the kids head back to school soon.
Jean, I’m not sure how I helped but I’m sure glad I did! 😀
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By: delurkergurl on July 19, 2010
at 8:00 PM
Margaret Talley died today.
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By: Sad in TX on July 19, 2010
at 7:31 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
We’ve been down this road before here on M&H as you know and sooner or later the ‘dissenters’ drift away for the most part. Especially after they have regressed to adolescent crudity. Most of us have raised kids and know well the various stages.
Let’s continue to bore this latest one. Our Congenial Gang is doing a great job of informing we grownups here. Keep it up!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 19, 2010
at 3:28 PM
Does anyone know how long it will take before people will be able to get their back unemployment checks, after the UI extension passes tomorrow? After 2 months without the meager income UI provides, people have probably missed at least a couple of house payments and a lot of bills. More defaults… just what this economy needs!
How does a person decide what bills to pay first when UI gives you less than what you need to get by and you’ve been without even that for two months?
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By: delurkergurl on July 19, 2010
at 2:19 PM
WWGKD.
And on we go…..
sooooo ….
If you agree with this letter please click the link and sign the letter and send a message to the rethugs.
Together … YES WE CAN…. dont be distracted.
Senate Republicans —
We stand together to support unemployment benefits for those who have lost their jobs because of this recession.
Refusing to vote on this issue isn’t just wrong; it’s wrong-headed.
http://my.democrats.org/page/content/joblessbenefitsnow?source=20100719_DB_ST3
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By: lori on July 19, 2010
at 1:36 PM
Well, Jim, how’s this for tossing PC out the window? What I’ve learned from you is that you are a sexist, objectifying, prejudiced jerk. You like to provoke people, and it isn’t for educational purposes – it’s for sport. Why else would you make a comment about liking black women’s asses to a room largely comprised of women?
I’m sick of you arrogantly crowding others off this porch because you think you’re so clever and wise, and that we who loveD this place for what it WAS need your brand of improvement. Who do you think you are? You’re wrong, and you’re dismissed.
Unfortunately, I realize that doesn’t mean you’re leaving. Others will keep playing your game with you and validating you. You’ll keep getting whatever it is you get out of it. It’s the way of the web.
I truly wish you the best possible life. Ideally, one where you have no time at all to spend here.
Adios.
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By: delurkergurl on July 19, 2010
at 1:33 PM
Delurkergurl –
“Jim, I am deeply sorry that you ever found this blog.”
Makes you uncomfortable, doesn’t it? heh – heh…That’s good. It reminds one of King’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” That is my touchstone. I have read and reread it two dozen times, but of all this magnificent document, my favorite is this passage:
“…I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. ”
Wow. Gives me chills.
Hopefully the tension I have created in you will help you to throw off the coils of PC and learn to think for yourself. But one thing is for sure: As long as I’m here – and I don’t know how long that will be before I get bored – I will always challenge you and force you to prove your point, instead of just blowing sunshine up your backside to make you feel good. THAT is a true sign of respect and concern.
So don’t be sorry! Use this as an opportunity to learn to think more clearly – and always remember: you don’t get better at chess by playing people you can beat.
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 19, 2010
at 12:31 PM
I would suggest, he tolerates you, because he does work with you, get a clue.
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By: no one's puppet on July 19, 2010
at 11:53 AM
Jim, I am deeply sorry that you ever found this blog.
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By: delurkergurl on July 19, 2010
at 11:38 AM
Third from last paragraph, my last post.
Argghhh!! Yours, not your’s. My bad. Your’s is not a word.
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By: PFesser53 on July 19, 2010
at 11:12 AM
no one’s puppet –
Actually I work with this guy. I’m in a pretty rural setting now, and he’s from DC originally, having moved here to help take care of his mother. He’s quite urbane, especially regarding music; I’ve learned quite a bit about jazz from him. We’re both butt men; we keep each other on alert for “onion booty,” which of course is owned 99% by the black girls, and he makes fun of the fact that as a Scotsman I have no arse, which makes my pants want to fall down all the time.
When you really don’t care about race it can be a lot of fun to hang out with people who are “different.” He and I couldn’t care less.
Rae –
“From what I’ve learned about you on this blog, I would say the emotion behind your racial humor is “discomfort” -snip-
You are clearly very bright and well-educated (which reminds me, you never responded to my question about your educational background), but don’t over-analyze. Your’s is one interpretation. Another might be that it’s just funny. Just a thought…
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By: PFesser53 on July 19, 2010
at 9:56 AM
Jim, “My best friend…racial jokes….” My husband and I are acquainted with a particularly obtuse couple, and since we’ve moved across the country, we suddenly realize, they consider us their best friends, calling all the time, and even coming out for a long uncomfortable visit. We are trying to give them a hint by not calling or emailing them, but so far no luck. Sound like your “friendship,” Jim?
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By: no one's puppet on July 19, 2010
at 9:38 AM
What we are seeing, Lori and Jim, is a well-documented phenomenon. Women respond to novel stimuli (including members of out-groups) with verbal encouragement. Men respond with physical aggression and “humor,” where physical aggression is not possible or where fear prevents it. This is, yes, a generalization (not every man finds denigrating humor “funny” and some women do), but in general humor masks aggression and fear. There are about forty years worth of research backing this up. Interestingly, boys and girls before puberty react the same way — with curiosity. It isn’t until after puberty that responses diverge. And I guess I can see the evolutionary logic behind it all — women as nurturers, men as protectors, etc. It doesn’t mean we have to give in to it.
No, I’m not going to provide references. Look them up yourselves; I’m tired of doing that. And yes, any woman who doesn’t consider what a man finds funny when looking for a mate is a fool.
Sorry, Jim, I agree with you on many things, but not this one. From what I’ve learned about you on this blog, I would say the emotion behind your racial humor is “discomfort” rather than aggression, but it still isn’t right.
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By: Rae on July 19, 2010
at 8:56 AM
“Sorry Jim, racism isn’t funny in any shape or form any time any decade…… in my book.”
I think anything that comments on the foibles of humanity can be humourous – and what *makes* it funny is that in every joke there is always a tiny grain of truth. That is also what makes those targeted by such humour fume and bridle at such things, because they know in their heart-of-hearts that some of it is true.
But as for the race-baiters:
In the same way that people who are secure in their own sexuality don’t care who else takes it up the rump, those who – like I – hate everybody equally, don’t worry about race. It is only the insecure who accuse everything that moves of being “racist” – in my view, usually because they are whistling by the graveyard in hopes their OWN – very real – prejudices won’t be exposed.
That’s my nickel psychiatrist evaluation. I could be wrong.
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By: PFesser53 on July 19, 2010
at 8:06 AM
Sorry Jim, racism isn’t funny in any shape or form any time any decade…… in my book.
It doesn’t surprise me you think otherwise.
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By: lori on July 19, 2010
at 7:04 AM
Funny how you see what you want to see.
Lori said –
“This is a letter/ post TEA PARTY EXPRESS leader Mark Williams wrote.
“We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!”
hmmm…Here’s what I found on the Web on the matter:
“The National Tea Party Federation, an organization that represents the Tea Party political movement around the country, has expelled conservative commentator Mark Williams and his Tea Party Express because of an inflammatory blog post he wrote, federation spokesman David Webb said Sunday….”
“Apparently he thought it was funny.”
I do too!
“Now you good people ttry and ell me again that the under lying “message” behind the tea party movement is not racist.”
Or maybe – unlike some on the Left – not being terrified of political correctness, Mssr. Williams decided to make a joke. My best friend in the world is black and we tell each other racial jokes all the time.
Lori, you need to get over the ’60’s – it was a long time ago and people are tired of the race card being dragged out any time people can’t defend their positions. We’re post-racial now, remember? We have a socialist mulatto president who is taking us into the gleaming future…life is good! The racial ambulance-chasers, like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are soon going to be out of work.
“As I said many months ago, I am sure there are baggers who honestly think they are marching for lower taxes. Those people would be ignorant.”
I think THEY know what they are marching for more than YOU know what they are marching for…perhaps the ignorance is not theirs.
“Don’t Pee on my boots and tell ME it’s rain.. I call BULSHIT!”
Me, too. Lean back so the steam doesn’t get you.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 19, 2010
at 6:45 AM
@crystal
Sorry but I missed all the talk shows yesterday. I spent the morning making zucchini cakes for my freezer. My garden overfloweth!
So no, I wasn’t paraphrasing anyone. It’s just politics 101. Time will tell if history repeats itself. I could be wrong, won’t be the first time, certainly not the last. But that’s my take on it at this point in time.
Your fears about Panetta? Again no surprise there. Conservatives are always afraid veryyyyy afraid. In a conservative’s mind there is always a liberal boogie man just around the corner waiting to getcha and take your America away…..I can only suggest to ya sistar come on over to the progressives side and have faith in our country not fear. 😉
Here is a link that compares several past presidents and their approval ratings, you can see we are JUST fine..But thanks for the concern!
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html
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By: lori on July 19, 2010
at 5:07 AM
This is a letter/ post TEA PARTY EXPRESS leader Mark Williams wrote.
“We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!”
Apparently he thought it was funny.
Now you good people ttry and ell me again that the under lying “message” behind the tea party movement is not racist. When their LEADER writes the type of scum that can be seen above. As I said many months ago, I am sure there are baggers who honestly think they are marching for lower taxes. Those people would be ignorant.
Don’t Pee on my boots and tell ME it’s rain.. I call BULSHIT!
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By: lori on July 19, 2010
at 3:56 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Lori,
Lori, I too have a mixed marriage – of 47 years. Well, I did have. ‘Boy toy’ was never what would be called an Ultra-Right Winger today. However he had a political epiphany as a result of the Bush Administration.
I voted Republican only once in my life in a Presidential election – for Gerald Ford. Nixon was sandwiched in between Eisenhower and Ford, and I still think that both Eisenhower and Ford were honorable men. Ford served as vice-president at the pleasure of Nixon.
I felt after the Nixon shenanigans and his fiasco, the country might suffer from whiplash if it turned around too rapidly. Nixon’s mess needed to be cleaned up too, just as Bushs’ even larger one does. Remember quite a few of Nixon’s top staff members (and henchmen) went to jail. That was mostly about trying to saboutage the Democratic Party on top of other nasty political mischief.
A metaphor could be that you can’t turn a battleship around on a dime under the best of ocean weather conditions. In a political hurricane the whole Ship of State could capsize and sink.
My husband didn’t go to all the trouble to get his name removed from every Republican mailing list that ever existed. As a result, right along he has been getting a stack of official and unofficial Republican or Conservative Thinking type mail that is unbelievable, not only in quantity but in page after page after page of unverifiable ‘facts’. (‘Propaganda’?). I receive some from Democratic/Progressive Thinking too. But I would say the ratio of Republican to Democrat is about 20/25-1. So the Far Right spends an awful lot of money on printing and bulk mailings!!! Oh, well, it helps keep that floundering ‘Socialist’ Government Agency, the U. S. Post Office, afloat with the jobs it provides.
The same could be said of Republican and Conservative Thinking email and ‘spam’ that range from incomprehensible to stupid to downright vicious and vile.
We glance at both the mail and electronic offerings. Occasionally we read some of it so we both get something of a cross section of what’s going on outside the tiny little cocoon we built for ourselves to live in.
The overall impression we get of the Republican or tea party strategy is, ahead of any proposed legislation on any bill: to balk, moan and groan, and ‘just say no’ to any and all Democratic/Progressive issues or initiatives. Once the legislation goes through, the Right’s strategy is; to moan and groan some more; whine and pick away at any of the flaws and human imperfections that inevitably crop up. There seems to be a pattern there.
It is all sort of like the annoying incessant commercials that interrupt shows on TV. The idea is, if something is repeated often enough and loud enough, it should be able to hammer home the message and get people to buy into it. More recently we have been getting Progressive Insurance commercials on TV with a sweet young thing batting her big blue contacts as spokeswoman.
You don’t suppose the executives and advertising people of that insurance company are trying to attract Progressive/Liberal customers with the ‘Progressive’ word association name, do you? Naw, I don’t think they are smart enough or clever enough to think of that. Or are they?
C’mon folks. From William James’, “The Stream of Consciousness” to Google and other search engines sending out their spiders into cyberspace for key words, I don’t think there are very many M&H bloggers of any demographic who are so naïve as to fall for bullshit when they see it coming at them.
If a poll and/or ratings were taken here at M&H tomorrow of the readers and those who comment on what the outcome of the November election is likely to be, what do you think would be the results? I have a pretty good idea.
Aloha!
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 19, 2010
at 1:18 AM
Re: Panetta
How could someone of that supposed cailber
be our nations top security expert, with an answer like his about supposed troop strength of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan?
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By: Chrystal on July 18, 2010
at 3:31 PM
Lori,
Pertaining to your response to Poolman.
I think you quoted or paraphrased a comment from the Round Table on ABC’s This Week which aired this morning. As follows:
“I also have to set you straight in Obama’s popularity. Ronnie had exactly the same poll numbers at exactly the same time and roughly the same unemployment rate. You know the rest of the story.”
That rest of that story, which former White House Media Director, Nicolle Wallace responded to Jake Tapper said something along the lines as follows:
“While both had the same low approval ratings at the same time, Regan crafted an agenda that so appealed to the political center that it created a new class of voters which became known as the Regan Democrats. Nicolle went further to explain that Obama is going entirely in the opposite direction and that he is totally interested in expanding the government and increasing its role in peoples lives and will probably have the opposite impact than Regan’s Presidency did.”
I also found it extremely interesting that George Will picked up on and that I heard some three weeks ago on something that Dir, of CIA Leon Panetta said regarding Afghanistan and that was to the numbers of Al Qaeda fighters that “he”, Panetta thought were in Afghanistan..and that number Panetta said would be somewhere between 50 to 100, maybe less. That’s scary coming from someone who is suppose to be an authority on our security and knowledgeable about enemy troop strength.
How could someone of that supposed caiber
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By: Chrystal on July 18, 2010
at 3:23 PM
@poolman,
You’re very correct when you say I am “entrenched” in the Democratic Party.
I have two things to say about that!
1. That came as a revelation to you? LOL I never asserted otherwise. I am as partisan and bias as the day is long. I have joked (not really) with my husband many times, who is a repug, that I wouldn’t vote for him if he ran for office! Yes, I have a mixed marriage! LOL However, just because I am bias doesn’t mean I can’t recognize faults. I would have never won a campaign if I didn’t! LOL I seldom publicly argue a democratic policy I don’t personally agree with but there are many democratic issues of which I don’t agree. I work within my party to change those planks.
2. Everyone who cares about this country and politics should be entrenched in the party of their choice. It is the only way their candidate and/or idea will become a reality. Period end of discussion. This “vote for the best man/woman” rhetoric sounds noble and I think people should do that in the primary election, but it’s silly to waste your vote on “the best person for the job”. You aren’t voting for the person you are voting for an agenda. Yes you can cite me incidents where elected officials break with party, and you would be right, there is some leeway, more in the democratic party than the GOP, but not much, if they drift too far they will be primaried. I promise you that. Also poolman people say they want bipartisanship, but they don’t, it’s been proven time and time again.
And anyone who doesn’t think it’s important to vote party need to look no further than the impeachment of Clinton. Talk about a waste of money and time!
Until we have publicly funded elections, people should vote for a party not a person. You want to make a difference? Work within your party to shape policy, get involved in the primary elections, and run your best person then. Sad fact I know… but true.
I also have to set you straight in Obama’s popularity. Ronnie had exactly the same poll numbers at exactly the same time and roughly the same unemployment rate. You know the rest of the story. In this enviroment – high unemployment, two wars, struggling economy, I’ll take 47 percent.
Palin, is very popular with the media, she is a policial pop star…….. think Paris Hilton, Lindsey Lohan, Brittnay Spears… in the news allll the time… lots of people talk about them…. but few actually LIKE them, they have their fan base, but it’s small. Their popularity is driven by the news they generate. That is Palin. That could change but that is what I see today.
Jim, you’re spot on with the Trig story and with your assertion about ruthlessness among national politicians. It’s a dirty bizness.
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By: lori on July 18, 2010
at 5:51 AM
Let the socialist health-care rationing begin:
Geez, I thought that under Obamacare the cost of medicine would go *down* and everybody would get to choose their own doctor.
And no *rationing*. This sure looks like rationing to me. Let’s see…I think I know where this is going. Since the gub’ment is paying for everything, you can only go to the cheapest doctor in town.
Maybe they haven’t heard about the wisdom of buying a cheap parachute, or getting a family practitioner to treat your cancer. Or maybe they have. After all, dead people don’t cost anything in healthcare at all. Ah, we are going to love socialism. I can see it now.
Now let me see, where did I put that 28th amendment chain letter…
Jim
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By: pfesser53 on July 18, 2010
at 5:02 AM
YW Jean,
I would guess Nancy’s job is pretty safe when we retain the house but I am not so sure about good old Harry! He has a good shot at returning, thanks to the tea party loon he is running against, but it’s my hunch (or maybe wishful thinking) his job is not that secure as Majority Leader.
I think Nancy has done a magnificent job. She has had all the tough legislation teed up and ready to vote. INCLUDING PUBLIC OPTION! It’s been Harry, IMHO, that has been the main culprit in the watered down legislation. I think he was worrying a little too much about how he was going to fund his reelection campaign (he knew he was in trouble) than he did about good legislation.
Harry has been a good Senator for Nevada (and of course has been in politics all his life ) and is well liked as a person among his colleagues. That and his LONGggggggg history in politics has allowed him to rise to Leader. He really didn’t do THAT great of a job as whip either! I just don’t think he has the balls it takes in today’s political climate to lead legislation, he is an old fashioned gentleman and that just doesn’t cut it in today’s world on the hill. .. Just one girl’s opinion…
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By: lori on July 18, 2010
at 4:03 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, lori, Whirled Peas and delurkergurl,
I think I’ve got this straight on the Congressional procedures thanks to you, lori, for answering my questions. So all the Republicans (and a few Democrats), who howl so loudly against Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, have no way of knowing if they will be chosen for their leadership positions again in the next session. There are plenty of other well-qualified Democrats in both houses who could fill the jobs.
I personally think Reid and Pelosi have done outstanding work in getting the Health Care and Financial Reform Legislations through, to name only the two major ones. Especially considering the solid block of opposition they were up against with the GOP. What we really need is to pick up a few more Democratic seats in both houses in November, because the GOP has made it abundantly clear than they have no intention of cooperating with the White House or anybody else, any time – with the exception of the ladies from Maine.
Yeah, Bruddah Peas, where are you? I’ve missed you and your links!
delurkergurl, I owe you big time – again. My printer crapped out. I thought the poor thing was gone, but I tried the trick you taught me when you helped me fix my ‘Control Panel’. Somehow it worked!!! I felt like I was reading Sanskrit all the way, but got it done. It saved me a bundle from getting my new computer guru up here to do it. I’m feeling so cocky, I think I may try re-activating my website on my own.
I really shouldn’t let my ‘boy toy’ near the computer. He was writing a personal letter and I think he punched a few wrong buttons. It could happen. I have always been his secretary for the important official business stuff.
Nighty-night everyone,
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 18, 2010
at 1:01 AM
BTW…. there is a great blog roll on that ^ site. I particularly like the middle class one.
Auntie Jean to answer your ?.
Each new session of congress a “speaker of the house is elected”.
The Chairman of the Democratic Caucus and the Chairman of the Republican Conference to nominate a candidate for Speaker the full house then votes.
The same for the Majority and minority leaders of the senate.
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By: lori on July 17, 2010
at 5:55 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, lori, jsri and PFessor,
lori, I’m so glad you are back and had a wonderful trip! Now you can assume some of the porch clean up duty and I can get back to cookin’ and cleanin’ for our family coming out.
Nope, jsri, neither PR for the HVB (Hawaii Tourist Bureau) nor the Chamber of Commerce. Unfortunately, tourism is our economic life blood and we are hurting like the rest of the country right now. Since sugar and pineapple fizzled out and corn-to-methane didn’t pan out, all we are left with is the damn tourists. And of course, the damn Haole retirees who come out and drive up the Real Estate values out of sight.
You may remember my story a while back about the attempt to bring a ferry out here and how we chased it out.
When we came out here 20 years ago there was only one traffic light on the whole island. Now development and traffic are becoming wild! Damn tourists! Damn Haole retirees!
Free-association my foot, PFessor. Every single word is deliberately chosen! There’s method in my madness. That’s what Story Tellers do best. ‘Free-association’ is no more than a newer more clinical term for finding common interests between people to achieve more mutually satisfactory goals.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 17, 2010
at 5:51 PM
and one more …. this use to be peas job! ??? p where you b? LOL
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/07/17/weekly-address-filibustering-recovery-obstructing-progress?utm_source=email&utm_medium=66&utm_content=graphic&utm_campaign=economy
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By: lori on July 17, 2010
at 5:43 PM
For those of you that r interested!
lori — wanted to make sure you saw that DCCC Chairman Chris Van Hollen will be on NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday morning to discuss the 2010 Elections up against Republican NRCC Chairman Pete Sessions.
Check it out on Sunday and then tell us what you think. You can get in touch with us on Facebook, Twitter or by just replying to this message.
Thanks for all that you do to stand with us.
Onward to Victory,
Jon Vogel
DCCC Executive Director
P.S. Our “100 Days Out” deadline is fast approaching. While Republicans were meeting with K Street lobbyists yesterday, we were busy planning our election season strategy.
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By: lori on July 17, 2010
at 5:38 PM
Hey James, many with brown, hazel, and green eyes are also cousins; we all have dominant and recessive genes. And of course we descent from a single female and a single male in the very distant past, so homo sapiens, are just one huge dysfunctional family.
Wow gang, just because we aren’t Helen solo or main focus, why assume she is deceased? I prefer to think she has a “life.”
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By: no one's puppet on July 17, 2010
at 4:18 PM
James –
I kind of like Jean’s rambling style; what the hell – I think Helen’s abandoned ship – or god forbid, bitten the dust – so we may as well follow Jean’s example and free associate a little…LOL
to wit:
Palin and Obama – young guns with slim resumes. I hadn’t thought of it like that. I see one very significant difference though: Obama is well-educated and well-spoken. Of course, if you are a well-educated socialist, that only makes you more dangerous. I think he is trying to remake us in Europe’s image; maybe he should look to see how being Europe is working out for EUROPE before he commits us to a socialist model. My jury is still out on Palin; I think clearly she is a charlatan and a puppet, likely controlled by (RNC maybe?), but is so dumb she thinks she is an original. I’m weighing the damage she can do vs. the good; if I’m sure she cannot gain serious office, hell, I may join her little group…
BTW, did you get the chain email proposing the 28th amendment? Normally I roundfile that kind of stuff, but I had just finished Hitchens’ memoir (tough plowing) and his biography on my Boy Jefferson, and decided it was exactly what the Old Master would favor, so I sent it on to 20 of my conservative friends. If it gets forwarded by 20 others, hmmm….poolman, what is 20^20? I think that is a Very Big Number, isn’t it?
I have been to Jefferson’s Monticello about ten times myself, and my wife went to school at UVA – “Mr. Jefferson’s School;” she has been there at least 25 times. We try to make a pilgrimage to the Great Man’s Mountain at least once a year; I always walk down to his grave and kneel at the gate; my kids think I have lost my mind. They have no idea what goes through my head as I give thanks to the memory of that giant. No idea. Last weekend a couple of my stepson’s friends asked me to fly them to C’ville for a party; I crossed from the south; here’s almost exactly what we saw, except I was a little lower.
http://www.monticello.org/gallery/grounds/south_mountain.html
The FAA is a little funny about national monuments nowadays and asked me to “climb when able.” We all had a chuckle about that one. VERY nice, well-trained controllers in Charlottesville. They remember me when I come in; there aren’t too many black airplanes in the US.
This Alzheimer-ish stream-of-consciousness stuff is fun, James! Try it.
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 17, 2010
at 2:21 PM
I think Helen has died.
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By: Harrison on July 17, 2010
at 2:14 PM
Jean:
I finally figured it out. Either you are a PR rep for the tourist industry on your little island or else you are a member of the local Chamber of Commerce.
But I must caution you, because if you oversell it, you will get crowded out by new washashores. At least that’s what they called new arrivals when we lived on Cape Cod.
When we first settled on the Cape 25 years ago it was a pretty laid back place to live. But now, traffic is a nightmare made even more impossible by the choke points of the 2 bridges leading onto the Cape. The reason we moved off Cape a few years back was because every time we wanted to catch up with the activities of our grandsons who lived 100 miles away, it usually involved weekend travel, a summertime, nightmare. Traffic backups of 7-8 miles are not uncommon and travel times can go out the window.
So if they ever make ferry time to your island convenient, be prepared for the onrush and subsequent displacement.
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By: jsri on July 17, 2010
at 1:13 PM
If Boehner has blue eyes, he is my distant cousin. A Danish scientist discovered the gene which creates blue eyes resulted from a mutation near the Black Sea six to ten thousand years ago.
The Democratic party is like a wounded buffalo. It took power on false pretenses as it tried and failed to keep its promises even with an overwhelming majority. The party passed laws important to its agenda, but the results didn’t make a noticeable difference.
Sarah Palin and her clones are like wolves circling a weakened, but still strong animal. She and the Tea Party are driving the debate while most Republicans sit around like Hamlet waiting to see which way the wind will blow. If trends continue the Tea Party will be able to claim much of the credit for a Republican victory. No wonder some Democrats want to discredit the Tea Party movement with obscene names. The only way to drive the wolves away is some noticeable Democratic success. Right now, they smell blood.
A recent poll showed Obama and Palin even in popularity. Two Republicans were ahead. Sarah Palin and Barack Obama were mirror images of each other during the last election. The two relatively young campaigners with slim resumes attracted most of the attention. I’m not sure about Obama, but Palin still attracts passionate crowds. Like Nixon, she has been quietly campaigning for and giving money to Republicans.
I don’t think Palin will win the next election, even if she wants to run, but extrapolation of present conditions a few years hence allows for the possibility of a worse-case scenario perfect storm. President Palin, would be as bad for the country as President Obama in my opinion. In the unlikely event of her election, I wonder what the voters and politicians would do for an encore.
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By: James on July 17, 2010
at 1:09 PM
Thanks for t he comment MirrorMan!
Just finished reading about Cheney. and his picture with the horrible scowl.
Again from one of my favorite authors Anne Perry.
A recurring theme in her early books. The Inner Circle. A group of men high up in politics who manipulate events to their liking.
To anyone who has read her books does that sound familiar?
Compare her stories with bought elections, and a few other things.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 17, 2010
at 10:02 AM
It’s so lovely to see the porch alive and well! I too am sending all good thoughts M&H’s way. I hope to hear from them soon.
A couple of exciting things happened while I was out of country eh? YAY! the oil leak seems to be stopped… thank heavens for small favors. AND we did manage to pass some financial reform. It didn’t go far enough in my opinion but it’s a start. Another reminder to back candidates who are pro public elections! WTG dems!
Just a reminder to any porch dwellers that live in Michigan … August 3 is election day… please don’t forget to vote, and if you can’t be here there is still time for an absentee ballot! click here! http://www.longdistancevoter.org/michigan
Auntie Jean, My husband and I spent a few days on the Mediterranean coastline of the southeast corner of France. He had some business to take care of there and I tagged along. It was ABSOLUTELY gorgeous! And it renewed my soul! I am so zen like now I don’t even think a bagger could rile me.. (wink) LOL
Have a wonderful weekend all..
namaste
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By: lori on July 17, 2010
at 4:56 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
That was my snotty, sarcastic jab at the Republican Leadership (?) earlier today. Sorry about that. Sometimes I just can’t resist. The devil made me do it!
However, I do get weary with the GOP, especially Boehner playing the same old games over and over again. Now he is trying to play divide and conquer within the Democrats. Like there is such unity in the GOP, the tea partiers, Michael Steele, South Carolina representation, etc., etc., except to just say no to everything.
Remember what Will Rodgers said, “I’m not a member of any organized political party. I’m a Democrat!” We can do a little infighting from time to time, but when it really counts for November, we’ll come together!
Does anybody here know Congressional procedures very well? For example, when re-elected, will Harry Reid automatically be retained or could someone else be chosen for his current position in the Senate? Same with Nancy Pelosi. Will she still be the Speaker of the House or could someone else be selected? Just curious. I don’t know.
Anyway off on another topic, if any of you landlubbers have ever thought you might like to try snorkeling in the ocean, here’s your lesson. It’s easy. If you can breath through your mouth, you can snorkel.
We have one of the best snorkeling spots right here on our island. I think it is even better than the world famous Hanauma Bay on Oahu. It is called “Lydgate” and is located on the East Side at Wailua. A long time age somebody had a great idea to enclose a quite large semi-circular area of the ocean. It is not a seawall but piles of huge black lava stones. There are only a couple of places where you can’t put your feet down at low tide. Adjacent is a separate but smaller shallow area also enclosed for kids.
You always want to go snorkeling at low tide. That’s when the water is calm, crystal clear and the fish come out. (Please don’t feed them frozen peas or other stuff that’s not good for them. A few slices of bread, torn up into little pieces in a small Ziploc bag, work just fine. Take the empty Ziploc bag back with you though.) In the local newspaper or on the TV weather news, the times of high and low tides are posted every day.
The lava wall keeps the really big fish out, like sharks and barracuda but the other fish can swim in and out between the huge stones.
Occasionally, a young sea turtle is washed over the wall with a big wave. But there is a place down at Poipu where, from the highish rocky shore, you can see adult sea turtles frolic around.
The Lydgate enclosure is great for swimming of course, but it is also fun to just hang there, face down, and watch the fish go by. There is every size and variety of tropical fish imaginable. There are schools of Big Blue (fish, not IBM) that are roundish, about a foot or more long and flat all over. Then there are the little-bitty flat yellow butterfly fish, round and about 3” in diameter. I have just hung there and the butterfly fish have gathered around to try to nibble at my fingernails. I guess the nails look like food. Their nibbles are more like kisses than bites.
About ten days after the full moon, there is an influx of small jellyfish. (Nothing like the deadly ones on the Great Barrier Reef in Australia. We haven’t been to Australia because it is another place too far away and where the flights are way, way too long.) In our islands, jellyfish signs are posted at beaches for the two or three days a month that the jellyfish are around. They are not particularly aggressive but have a nasty sting if you get in their way. An occasional tourist ignores the signs, get stung and makes a dashing trip to the ER. Believe it or not, the best treatment is, maybe Bactine, or………this may sound gross, but your own urine works just fine. So the local people say.
One time we goofed and went snorkeling at high tide. Big waves were crashing over the lava rocks, churning up lots and lots of bubbles. When the bubbles cleared, I found myself face to face with a Portuguese-Man-O-War!!! He was pretty nonchalant with his long tentacles trailing along. But I set a new Olympic record getting the hell outta there!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 17, 2010
at 1:22 AM
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By: delurkergurl on July 16, 2010
at 7:48 PM
On Boehner, Jean, ‘Old Blue Eyes,’ no, but he might be the aged Coppertone baby, someone tell him, he is orange enough.
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By: no one's puppet on July 16, 2010
at 5:29 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and alaskapi on July 14, 2010 at 1030PM,
I also think that Palin is somewhat dangerous in this sense. She has inspired plenty of pre- or mid-menopausal airheads to touch up their roots and run for public office.
THERE’S GOLD IN THEM THAR HILLS!!!
Ergo, Bachmann, Brewer and that babe who is challenging Harry Reid in Nevada. And then there is Boehner, who is bucking for Nancy Pelosi’s job. ‘Ole Blue Eyes’ gets up there on the podium with a mic in his hands and croons away, thinking he’s Frank Sinatra. Sheesh!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 16, 2010
at 5:15 PM
Speculation that Helen & Margaret might not be who they say they are have often been presented through incredibly insulting inferrences that older women aren’t capable of that level if wit, sass and intellect.That would justify the common level of fury over the implications.
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By: delurkergurl on July 16, 2010
at 4:46 PM
Craig, I’m aware of the speculation regarding Helen’s identity on various blogs; to me it doesn’t matter — I love the “voice.” I don’t care who it belongs to.
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By: Rae on July 16, 2010
at 4:16 PM
Helen had a lengthy absence awhile back, her husband was hospitalized, so like you and I’m sure most of us here, I am concerned.
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By: no one's puppet on July 16, 2010
at 3:33 PM
Rae,
“If in fact you’re really just a recent college grad who took advantage of the fact that older people can get away with speaking blunt truth, thanks for the ride.”
The proposition of this blog site being ghost written by some young blue blood college democrat has been made more than once on this blog site.
Often in the past it has been met with open resentment and anger. So I’m surprised at the
“0” decibel noise level that has descended on the site.
So Rae the answer to your last proposition is:
“It’s a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”.
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By: Craig on July 16, 2010
at 3:29 PM
This is the longest Helen has gone without blogging, puppet, and I’m concerned. She is supposed to be in her 80s, and not in the best of health, so maybe she’s having health problems. I can find nothing in the blogosphere about it, which is odd, given the popularity of this site. Maybe she just grew tired of all of it. Helen, if you’re watching, or if your grandson is watching, just let us know, ok? If in fact you’re really just a recent college grad who took advantage of the fact that older people can get away with speaking blunt truth, thanks for the ride.
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By: Rae on July 16, 2010
at 1:14 PM
Perhaps this is the longest Helen has went without blogging, does anyone know?
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By: no one's puppet on July 16, 2010
at 10:24 AM
I am sure I can whip up some snacks (Decades in the Food Service industry as a Chef. Pretty sure I can handle it.)
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By: MiirorMan on July 16, 2010
at 8:48 AM
Hey Gang!!!!! Woohoo!!!!! You too Greytdog, Crafty Lady in Illinois and Mirror Man!!!!!
This is a red letter day!!!!! The passage of the Financial Reform bill and stopping the oli leak. Now if we can just get a new post from M&H, we’ll be in clover.
I was so pleased that the ladies from Maine had the courage to vote for what is best for the country instead of toeing the GOP party line. That took guts.
There is plenty of work still to be done. The Financial Reforms need some time to get in place and begin to take effect. And let’s keep our fingers crossed that the oil cap holds long enough for the relief well to get there. We are just gonna have to continue to keep their feet to the fire! There is still the cleanup.
It sort of reminds me of me, making my Tuna Croquettes and the disaster I made in the kitchen in the process. I think I will retire, permanently, from making the damn things. The mess to clean up after just isn’t worth it anymore. There are plenty of other goodies for the family to eat.
Uh, thanks, Crafty Lady. Don’t encourage me. Is there any place anyone is either planning or has ever had a hankering to go to? I’ll give you the full scoop! Except Antarctica. It’s too cold and too far, but you can ask jsri. He’s been there.
Greytdog and Mirror Man, welcome back. I knew you two hadn’t jumped ship.
Let’s celebrate with pie, tea, wine – the works! But I’m not serving up any Tuna Croquettes.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 16, 2010
at 1:03 AM
No conspiracies here, folks. Just keep consuming. Keep paying in. Keep your eye to the tellie for what to believe. It’s all under control. Everything is just peachy keen.
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By: poolman on July 15, 2010
at 9:33 PM
To Auntie Jean,
I mostly just read everyone’s opinions………..all so interesting but, of late, have really enjoyed Auntie Jean and her thoughts and many travels to places I will never see in my lifetime. Thank you Auntie Jean……..you’re as entertaining as Margaret and Helen are…………and, yes, I miss them too!!
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By: Crafty Lady in Illinois on July 15, 2010
at 8:45 PM
(Watered down) financial reform has passed the senate and BP says they have STOPPED the oil from gushing into the gulf.
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By: delurkergurl on July 15, 2010
at 2:02 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri,
Bless your heart, jsri! You answered my questions beautifully in that these are extremely complex issues. You probably have more expertise along those lines than most of us here at M&H, but are so cautious in jumping to conclusions. The few sound bits we get on TV or read about don’t begin to scratch the surface of what’s really going on in the world.
I love your gentle WW! I wish we could meet you both in person. She personifies exactly how far a little kindness will go.
Just as your WW’s health issues have a genetic component, my husband’s heart problems do too. There are anomalies in his cardiac blood vessels that were unknown until his first heart attack in 1985 when he had the angiogram.
It was medical science and expertise that discovered it and more importantly, knew what to do about it.
I think the wisest thing any of us can do is find the best medical team (if we can afford it!), trust them and follow their advice to the best of our ability.
Busy day tomorrow in the Big Cities, so nighty-night, everyone.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 15, 2010
at 12:58 AM
Hi, Kids! And I also mean you, Auntie Jean and Grandma Katie, especially you!
I have been watching from the shadows, and haven’t missed much, except this new corporal punishment bit, which, of course, I have my own opinions on, but I need to read through everything before I comment.
I hope you don’t mind if I pull up a seat on the porch, pour myself a strong cup of tea, and grab a piece of pie. I have been…busy.
But not absent…
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By: MirrorMan on July 14, 2010
at 11:15 PM
yes- our gone gov is dangerous on a variety of levels…
probably need keep an eye on her but there are more important things to attend to …
Hero woos commission with soulful crooning
————————-
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By: alaskapi on July 14, 2010
at 10:32 PM
JeanΔ ¥ on July 14, 2010 at 8:10 PM
Jean:
I missed your second shot at me about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome in your post above. The negative effects of alcohol on the developing fetus were suspected long before they became confirmed but even when our son was in utero fifty years ago my wife knew enough to stay away from booze. So it is not a new issue. However, it is now well known that the effects of alcohol are most severe during the early stages of pregnancy when the most rapid and complicated stages of fetal development are taking place. The alcohol doesn’t have a genetic effect but instead, interferes with metabolic processes during the various stages of the differentiation of organs and structures. Neurological tissues are among the most susceptible.
For more info check out this link.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/fetalalcoholsyndrome.html
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By: jsri on July 14, 2010
at 10:07 PM
JeanΔ ¥ on July 14, 2010 at 8:10 PM
I’m still ducking the question because I’ve been out of the field for more than 30 years so asking the for a Bio 101 course about innumerable genetic disorders, both physical and mental is not a simple question. And the field of genetics has moved so far beyond where I was at the time, I wouldn’t be comfortable even taking a random shot at it. Human genetics is a specialized field which is way outside of my experience and the genetics of mental disorders is so specialized that each disorder may or may not have a genetic component yet each one still has its own individual set of issues to be studied. Since there is no common underlying genetic mechanism to account for the multitude of such conditions the best place for information may be to study research papers regarding a specific condition you need to know about. Some of the more reliable medical websites, such as WebMD, NIH’s MedlinePlus or Mayo Clinic, can present a perspective about a specific condition that a layman can understand. But to learn about a condition with any authority or specificity, one would have to have contact with someone actively engaged in research within the field. But be forewarned, each disease has its own jargon and insider expressions that can be difficult to decipher. I’d feel very uncomfortable trying to do that and anything I’d report might be inaccurate or out of date.
Just for an example closer to home, my wife has a well known but not necessarily common medical condition that is basically a genetic problem yet despite a vast volume of research, there is still no effective treatment for dealing with it. At present, her condition can be ameliorated but not cured and that is only one of thousands of such diseases.
On the other hand if you had a specific question I might be able to take a stab at it or at least get launched off in the right direction. However, it may take a bit of time as I have been getting more involved in activities that have been keeping me on the go for the past year or so.
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By: jsri on July 14, 2010
at 9:46 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, no one’s puppet, jsri, poolman, Rae, Grandma Katie and everybody else,
I think it was you, no one’s puppet, who wondered was there anyone over the age of 60 here ever having heard of ADD/ADHD in our dissolute youth. Of course not! All we knew were the three categories of ‘Imbecile’, ‘Moron’ and ‘Idiot’ that have become part of our lexicon. Depending on the degree, they were automatically institutionalized or locked up in the attic. (Thanks for the reminder, Rae, about “Wuthering Heights”, but I am thinking of Mr. Rochester’s loony wife in “Jane Eyre”. And every town had its ‘village idiot’ and/or ‘town drunk’. We have come a very long way since the cruelty of those days.
Also what my generation knew about ‘recreational drugs’ in those days were the horrors of opium dens in China. Those were induced by the “Opium Wars” of British Imperialism, trying to bring China to her knees as a British colony like India. India was already part of the British Empire and that’s where the English got the opium, huh, Grandma Katie.
Since then, there have been innumerable stories of ‘Savants’ who were geniuses in math, music, sculpture, etc., but couldn’t find their way to the bathroom on their own. Both mental and physical ailments were just chalked up to ‘sin’ and you had to pray your way out of them or maybe get exorcised by any number of bizarre practices.
I have tried several times to pry jsri out of his cushy retirement to give us the course on Genetics 101 on innumerable disorders, both physical and mental. You won’t budge, will ya buddy.
Scientific research is a long arduous journey. But it has paid off and still is. Here is one of the biggest problems. Scientific studies require time and well-trained people to produce anything close to reliable evidence. And money. The people working in research like to eat and have roofs over their heads too; just as the ones appointed/elected to sit on boards do, while busy shuffling papers they can’t read or comprehend if they could read them.
Where does the money come from? I can cite two well-known sources. We all know that the big pharmaceutical giants do research and conduct clinical trials on drugs for safety and efficacy. But there is a profit motive to get a drug on the market as fast as possible and collect on the proprietary patent protection. Skew the statistics! Screw regulatory agencies! Fast talk your way past the understaffed FDA if you can.
Where do you think the recognized-around-the-world-logo “Coca-Cola” came from? Before ‘coke’ became banned as a controlled substance, it was the key ingredient in Coke. The company still maintains it’s highly secretive formula but just substituted sugar for a ‘sugar high’ instead of a ‘coke high’.
The other source of funding is government-sponsored studies, often in conjunction with universities, which more often than not are also government-funded institutions. (I’m not talking about future graduates of the newly founded Beck University. I understand that Glen Beck says you can enroll in his University for $79.00.)
Enter politics. We all remember the “War on Cancer”, the “War on Drugs” and the “War on Terrorists”, competing for funding. The word “War” conjures up images of parades of soldiers marching, tanks, maybe a couple of fighter jets in flyovers, flag waving and martial music. Then everybody goes home and on about his/her business. Remember Nancy Reagan and her “Just Say No” dictum to drugs? Then Ronald Reagan read the script he was handed about the ’Welfare Queens’ strung out and delivering ‘Crack Babies’. And the “War” was on!
Those ‘Crack Babies’ have daddies too. Where is the correlation between ‘recreational drugs’ and the genetic bouncing around of mutations on alleles during the replication of the DNA in either or both ovum and sperm? How about ‘Fetal Alcohol Syndrome’? Does it arise at the genetic level or during gestation? jsri, damn it, speak up! The old ‘Nature vs. Nuture’ controversy just reared its ugly head – again.
I personally don’t believe that a glass or two of wine automatically leads to alcoholism any more than I think smoking an occasional joint leads to addiction to narcotic derivatives. (I was pretty popular in the social scene in my day, probably partly because I was a cheap date. I could nurse half a drink for a whole evening. BTW, I love alliteration, don’t you? Check out the ‘p’s – several times above.)
Anybody who has ever had major surgery or a root canal has been mighty grateful for those drugs! But who knows where the dividing line between moderate use and chronic addiction are. The major difference is you can buy your booze at the local supermarket. You can go to jail for pot possession. (I’m on a ‘p’ alliteration roll! Sugar High from my five Hershey Chocolate Kisses to top off my lunch?)
So like everything else in life, it is not the use, but the abuse.
Rae and Poolman, you are both very good at tracking down authoritative empirical studies to share with us. Perhaps you can find some on the correlation between ‘recreational drugs’ in the past couple of generations and ADD/ADHD.
Me, I’ve had my hands full for the past 15 years as one of the foot soldiers in the trenches of a very large and long-range cancer study, pumping data into their database. (My family tree is riddled with some rare cancers, but how come I am and always have been cancer free?)
This study is PLCO in Honolulu as a part of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) and National Institute of Health (NIH). There are ten PLCO Screening Centers scattered all over the U.S. You can Google: PLCO.
Oh my, those are funded by that nasty Socialist Government in Washington. You know, the one that Conservative Thinking so loudly decries the use of our taxpayer dollars for. Or perhaps the tea partiers would rather return to the Good Old Days of flu, measles, mumps, tetanus, diphtheria, polio and smallpox. The Empress of Russia Alexandra’s mother and sister both died of diphtheria at very young ages.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
P. S. I’m off my soapbox – for now.
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 14, 2010
at 8:10 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
As an outsider looking in on domestic disputes, maybe, just maybe Sarah Palin is:
THE-MOTHER-IN-LAW-TO-BE-FROM-HELL!!!!!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 14, 2010
at 5:25 PM
No conspiracies here, folks. Just keep shopping. Keep paying your taxes. Keep watching TV for updates and information. We got it all under control. Everything is fine.
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By: poolman on July 14, 2010
at 2:31 PM
Conspiracy theories thrive because of the plausibility factor. Not fact. just factor.
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By: Greytdog on July 14, 2010
at 2:20 PM
Gosh, I thought Helen would have a humorous take on Bristol and Levi II. I wish the kids well, and unfortunately I think they are going to need a lot of luck, they are very young and both sets of in-laws have a tendency to over involve themselves in their relationship.
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By: no one's puppet on July 14, 2010
at 1:59 PM
I have to agree with Rae, if a number of people are in the know about a conspiracy, someone, or a lot of someones, are going to blow it.
We all know Bush didn’t win his first term, the Supreme Court handed it to him. Damn if I know how he won the second term, some people don’t think that he did, all I know is, I didn’t vote for him either time.
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By: no one's puppet on July 14, 2010
at 1:45 PM
JeanΔ ¥ on July 14, 2010 at 12:52 AM
I have nothing to add to the ADD/ADHD discussion or conspiracy theories so I’m going to check out for a while, at least until H&M post a new offering. When my wife taught, ADD had not been identified as such and was seen as a behavioral problem, not medical, and treated accordingly.
Meanwhile, I’m thinking about looking into auditing an on-line university course or two, probably redoing something I once studied in College but is now only a vague memory. But before I go I have one more WonderWife tale to tell you.
Several weeks ago we were waiting for breakfast in a funky eatery in a torpid little hamlet just south of the New York-Canadian Border. Service was moving at the speed of a tortoise when my wife realized that the young waitress, barely out of her teens, was also the cook and seemed to be handling one order at a time. Sitting behind me two tables away was a young couple with a beautiful angelic looking two and a half year old daughter who was acting like, – well, a two and a half year old, that is., – antsy. WW is so attuned to children under stress, she will focus on them like a laser. I’d assume it’s her mother-grandmother-teacher genes coming together at the surface. I was now subjected to a running commentary regarding the scene unfolding behind me.
While dad was fixated on his text messaging, the young mother was pulling tricks and toys, one after another, out of her shoulder bag to distract the child, and doing a good job of it. And when the food finally arrived. I also got a running account of the mess created as the child abandoned her spoon in favor of her fingers. During the whole process, it was obvious that young mom was teetering on the edge of a cave in
When we got ready to leave. The couple was at the register paying the bill when my wife began talking with the young mom. First she told her how beautiful her child was. Then she told the mom that she was doing a fine job under stressful conditions and that it was nice to see a mother who was so attentive to the needs of her obviously bright child. Only WW expressed these observations in softer terms than I can conjure up. Then she said something soothing to the child and by the time the couple walked out the door, the child was smiling and waving bye-bye and the mother was beaming. Dad took time out of his texting to snap a quick cell phone picture as they left.
As I prepared to pay the waitress/chef, WW quickly learned that the owners of the eatery were off on a short vacation and that the chef didn’t show up for work. WW complimented her on her resourcefulness and dedication and as I handed over the money, I got a soft, inconspicuous poke in the ribs, a signal to be more generous than usual. It’s not often that you can be moved to pay more in tips than the meal is worth. When we left, the waitress/chef, now the cashier, was smiling too.
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By: jsri on July 14, 2010
at 1:03 PM
poolman, maybe my quibble is with the use of the word “conspiracy.”
Take the whole Milton Friedman “shock” thing. His philosophical beliefs, shared by some others, informed his choices and actions over a period of time, wreaking havoc in Central and South America. But was it a “conspiracy?” I don’t think so. Just a bunch of pathetic guys who read Ayn Rand books and there found hope that the geeks would inherit the earth and the hot babes, so reacted in a certain way to the various opportunities presented to them. Conspiracy implies planning, and the ability to control more than human beings can control.
Lots of people act more or less consistently according to their beliefs. Much of that action produces very bad results. The macro effect of all of that may look like a conspiracy, but I don’t think it is. More like emergent evil than deliberate evil (or good, for that matter, as conspirators could be acting for good as well.)
Are the Saudis madly preparing for whatever will preserve their wealth and their power when the oil runs out? Well, sure they are. Everybody is scrambling to survive what’s coming. But is it a conspiracy? I think that glamorizes what’s happening.
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By: Rae on July 14, 2010
at 12:36 PM
We have been taught to discredit conspiracy theories. It seems to have been a lesson well-learned. Cointel has been an extremely effective tool used on us. Bin Laden, al Qaeda, and all the Saudi hijackers involvement in nine-eleven is still an unproved conspiracy that 2/3rds of Americans accept as fact. So if you believe the official report, you do believe in a conspiracy theory.
What are your thoughts regarding the global warming conspiracy in light of the Oregon petition, Leipzig Declaration, or SEPP? With all the FOIA is doing to help uncover truths that support many of these conspiracies, albeit slowly, like the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Korean War facts, and the first Gulf war against Iraq, do you think we have changed our MO? For me, it has been very enlightening. It does, however, go against everything I was raised to believe regarding America and our role in the world.
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By: poolman on July 14, 2010
at 12:25 PM
Poolman –
Palin as a puppet.
You HAVE been doing your homework. Not one person in five hundred really understands how this game is being played. VERY impressive.
I agree with your assessment of her chances for election as well. In ordinary times – not a prayer. In these times – I’m not so sure. Not at all.
As an aside, I think it is very important to concede good points – even in bad people; it makes you more credible and it is the right thing to do. Along those lines, my stepdaughter lives in NYC. Her roomie’s mom actually ended up doing Queen Esther’s hair for a recent appearance. Her assessment was as follows: She – like all credible reports about GWB – was extremely polite, friendly and down-to-earth. “She was a real pleasure to work with. She also was as dumb as a stump.”
You can quote me on that. (her, actually)
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 14, 2010
at 11:49 AM
Hello everyone and especially to Jean,
I’m among those beautiful corn fields of Amish country as I type this. Taking a vacation the last week or so and this part of PA is on our itinerary.
Been keeping up with the reading on the porch every few days…..my but this is a lively bunch.
Liked your “connecting the dots” link, Poolman.
Hope everyone is having a great mid-summer’s night breeze each evening. It’s HOT on the east coast!!!!!!!
vgman
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By: vgman on July 14, 2010
at 11:48 AM
Conspiracy theories: if there were any evidence that human beings are capable of formulating and sustaining plans over a period lasting longer than one month, I might believe in them. If there were any evidence that groups of people were capable of keeping secrets and capable of working together for more than two months without turning on each other, I might believe in them.
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By: Rae on July 14, 2010
at 11:40 AM
PFesser53, oh yeah. Scary bunch. Our military is full of them, too. When the fundamentalists began to enter politics in the Reagan years, they dug in real deep. They have infiltrated left and right political arenas. Part of the “seven mountains” theology garbage. And regarding Trig and Track, I have been made familiar with the controversy. I am a frequent visitor to Mudflats, thanks to Greytdog who posted links to AKM early. I listen to Shannyn Moore’s radio show when I have the chance, also.
No one’s puppet, I think if the elections were above board, you could be right. But then explain how Bush was able to win in 2000 and then again in 2004? I think you should investigate one Michael Louis Connell and learn how elections are really conducted. Palin is the perfect puppet, and has been for sometime. If those in control want her there, trust me, she will be the next POTUS, despite how you or I vote.
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By: poolman on July 14, 2010
at 11:31 AM
Poolman, Sarah Palin probably could win in the Red States, but they don’t have enough electoral votes to gain the Presidency.
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By: no one's puppet on July 14, 2010
at 11:10 AM
Poolman –
You never cease to surprise. So you know about the Dominionists, huh? Pretty scary bunch of people. If you have studied them, then you know Leah Burton, an acquaintance of mine whose life’s work is to expose them. She’s rarely seen nowadays; she’s writing a book about them.
My wife and I are personal friends with several of the Alaska bloggers; the real scoop coming out of Wasilla would make you pretty nervous. I am extremely concerned for Levi’s sister, Mercede. The Palins have become IMHO involved in a dance of death with the ReBiblicans, who know the real story about “Trig.” Several of us who were investigating this story before the election were told by a fairly high-up Democratic operative in Florida that everyone in both the Obama and McCain camp knew that her birth story, known colloquially as “Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride” was completely bogus, and whether the Democrats revealed it would depend on how things looked in the election. If you have a good memory, you will remember that McCain basically gave up the last week before the election. My guess is that he was made both aware of his running mate’s shortcomings and the fact that her story was out.
If the real story is revealed, it will embarrass everyone – the Democrats, the lamestream media (love that term) – and McCain’s career is over, so everyone is keeping mum. In the meantime, Palin – who thinks she has god’s_own_sanction, is going rogue, since everyone is afraid of her.
Levi is a brainless git; his handlers, Tank and Rex, who I call Pimp and Playa, (Tank used to be a pimp, BTW) have clearly been paid-off. They previously manhandled Mercede and her mother, but now the little girl has shown some real cajones in her blog and is clearly out of their control. I believe she is in great danger. A little coke spread in her car, her clothes, etc, and she goes to jail; her mother for many years. The Palinistas play for keeps; never lose sight of that fact. They are as ruthless as the Clintons, just not as smart.
Of course, that is my own wild conspiracy theory. I could be wrong. heh heh…
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By: PFesser53 on July 14, 2010
at 10:53 AM
Rae – I loved your story about reading and the library.
Unfortunately the town I grew up in and the CArnegie Library did’t allow you in the library to check out books until you were nine. So on my 9th birthday a card came in the mail with an application form in it. My Dad came home for lunch and took me to the library on his way back to work. I spent a happy time looking at all the books, fi
Finally chose one and went home and read it that afternoon. From then on I used my mother’s card so I could check out a bunch and save trips.
Wasn’t long before I started slithering over into the non fiction section.
Today I am fortunate in the Board and Care Residence. Someone takes me to the library and lets me carry back numerous books. So between those books ,computer and M&H, and cell phone, I have managed to keep my sanity while a resident here.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 14, 2010
at 10:03 AM
*’ opinion*
Sorry, only one cup of coffee.
I’ve seen some articles presenting SP as a potential candidate in the 2012 presidential campaign. I didn’t think we were that ignorant or desperate, but I’m beginning to change my mind. I don’t think it impossible for her to get elected anymore. Barack’s popularity has declined so much and many people think changing parties is going to fix things. We are so short-sighted as a race. I still run into people daily that blame Obama for all our woes and feel getting him out will put us back on a good path. My personal belief is that he doesn’t have the power we think he does. I think he means well, but there is an agenda that supercedes his capabilities. At some point you risk being removed, kind of like JFK was. Don’t push the Zionists too hard or you’re gone, IMO.
That attitude combined with our fraudulent election outcomes, scares me into thinking that SP as president IS a possibility. That said, if it truly comes to fruition, I will reveal some prophecy that I have come across befitting of that scenerio. The dominionists play a big role. Of course, some discredit that sort of stuff.
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By: poolman on July 14, 2010
at 9:33 AM
Good morning, everyone. Just read that Levi and Bristol are getting married. Good for them and despite her parents of him. Of course that will probably help keep a lot of those family secrets from emerging.
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By: poolman on July 14, 2010
at 9:02 AM
I think the Banff and Lake Louise area are some of the most beautiful in the world. Edmonton and Calgary aren’t bad either. A drive around the Canadian Rockies reminds me of the Swiss Alps because they appear so high and snow covered.
My father unwittingly taught me to read as he read the Sunday funnies to me and my brother. I started reading Life Magazine, US News and World Report and Saturday Evening Post, before I was ten. I didn’t like fiction. I was a sophomore in high school when I entered a library for the first time.
When I was in kindergarten, our teacher told us to look out the window. She showed us elf tracks in the snow. All of the kids were thrilled that elves would be listening to our classes. I was distraught because all I could see were the splatter marks from water dripping off the roof and hitting the snow. What was wrong with me that I couldn’t see what every one else could see? It bothered me for weeks, as I kept looking for elf tracks.
I told some girls in second grade that Santa Clause didn’t exist. Two cried and told the teacher. It led to a nice chat with our principal.
In third grade, I helped some friends sneak into the class room through a window during the noon hour so they could change their grades in the grade book. The fools used a pencil when the teacher had used a pen. It turned out badly.
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By: James on July 14, 2010
at 7:40 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Rae,
The discussion on ADD/ADHD is very interesting and naturally I have my own opinions on the subject. But since I am not a physician or clinician, I am not really qualified, so I didn’t think I would go there. It was sort of the same as when the Israeli/Palestinian issue came up – again. I learned a very long time ago, I could not solve all the problems of the world single-handedly.
But the more I thought about it maybe I will wade in tomorrow. Rae, either I will try to bail you out or I will get both of us into deep yogurt. We’ll see. For now, today I made a whole mess of my Tuna Croquettes to freeze and nearly totaled the kitchen before I was through. I’m a little tuckered out tonight.
Back in the days when I was a starving artist, I decided to make Salmon Croquettes for dinner. Oops! No salmon in the cupboard. My husband was at work with our only car and we were living from paycheck to paycheck. It was too far to push a twin stroller to the store for a can of salmon. But I had a few cans of tuna. OK. Maybe that would work.
Halfway through making them, another Oops! I only had a smidgen of breadcrumbs or crackers to roll them in. Scrounging around, I found some Graham Crackers. Well, that might work too. Voila! Tuna Croquettes rolled in mashed up Graham Crackers! As we all know, tuna is a little on the bland side. The Graham Crackers gave them just enough sweetness to liven the croquettes up a bit. They turned out to be something of a sensation and I have never made Salmon Croquettes since. Serendipity struck again!!!
It turned out that a little tradition evolved that whoever’s birthday it is gets the dinner of his choice. One of our sons always requested Tuna Croquettes and my famous potato salad. My husband is sort of ho-hum about birthday cake so he always requested Raisin Pie – from scratch. That’s quite a production too! It’s not worth the effort and mess to make just one so I make 3-4 and freeze ‘em. Have you ever put birthday candles on top a lattice crust Raisin Pie? I created a couple of Culinary Monsters for myself there!
I don’t really consider myself a great cook except for a few specialties. One of our sons, however, is an amateur gourmet chef. Our DIL loves it! Some of my best recipes come from him. So you can see, with only a couple of weeks left to prepare for CA son and family’s visit, I’ve got some serious cooking and freezing to do!
BTW, out here if you are looking for “tuna” on a menu or in the market, half the time you would be out of luck if you didn’t know it is “ahi”.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 14, 2010
at 12:52 AM
Sorry, all. The shopping in the wilderness story and the crazy reading story are mine. Forgot to log in.
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By: Rae on July 13, 2010
at 10:42 PM
Reading. My mother, a very bored housewife with no interest in or talent for homemaking arts, began to teach me to read when I was three. I began teaching my two-year old sister, but only when we were out of sight of mom. One day sister Mary read “Ajax Cleanser” (sounded it out and pointed at the words) while my mother stood nearby. She screamed, grabbed Mary, and ran next door to the neighbors, who quickly determined that she could add and subtract, too. I had been a busy little teacher.
As 8 and 9 year-olds we used to jump on a city bus and go to the big downtown library. We would check out the maximum number of books (I think it was 7 each), and bring them home in bags, and then we would devour them. After lights out we would hang out of our beds onto the floor and read by the hall light, or sneak flashlights under the covers. We were caught about once a week and soundly thrashed for our disobedience, but we kept it up.
I still remember the week I checked out Wuthering Heights and Mary checked out The House of the Seven Gables. We were 10 & 11, I think. Naturally one consequence of all of this is that we became terrible know-it-alls, something appreciated by a few teachers, tolerated by more, and hated by some others. And of course we thought we knew more than we did, because although an 11 year old might be able to read Wuthering Heights, but would she really understand what she was reading? Probably not.
Oh, and before somebody says “you can’t let your kids go anywhere on a city bus these days,” we really shouldn’t have been riding them by ourselves either, even then. We had all kinds of “adventures” that we shouldn’t have, although I quickly learned that an umbrella is an essential traveling companion and nothing terrible ever happened.
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By: Anonymous on July 13, 2010
at 10:39 PM
Well, here’s my strangest Banff story. I had backpacked there, as I said earlier, but went back, accompanied my husband to a conference, and stayed in the Chateau Lake Louise. Somewhat different experience. Not that I remember it … how can a hotel stay compete with sleeping under those stars?
Anyway, we ditched the conference one day and hiked around the lake and on up the mountain, the name of which I can’t recall, opposite the hotel. After quite an arduous climb, we approached the top, and came upon a grocery cart. Before we dragged it back down with us, and boy was that awful, I had my picture taken “shopping in the wilderness.” We made a poster of it and had it on the wall for awhile; I think the ex got it in the divorce, along with the 35mm slide the poster was made from.
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By: Anonymous on July 13, 2010
at 10:27 PM
Judith – loved your story about learning to read.My dad started reading to me very early,Thornton Burgess and Tales of the Green meadow. I do not remember learning to read,just seemed to know. I do remember getting sent to my seat from the reading circle because I didn’t know the place when it was my turn to read. (I was reading in the back of the book because the rest were too slow.) In later years I sat at the last seat on the row. That way I could read a library book instead of listening to the teacher.
My kids grew up with books all over the house. They all read everything and so do their children.
BTW – the grandchild with ADD is the one who went to Senegal his Jr year.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 13, 2010
at 7:45 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Donna on July 12, 2010 at 5:49PM,
Oh, you are gonna love Banff and Lake Louise! If you have the time, spend a few days in either Calgary and/or Vancouver and Victoria. You will absolutely love the people!!! See if you can get some “Tourtier”, the traditional French Canadian meat pie. Yep, they even have it all the way across Canada.
The drive up to Jasper is of beautiful scenery but the lil’ ole town is a bit ho-hum. But if you are into lil’ ole Western towns, you will enjoy it.
I would love to read your report on your trip when you get back.
Bon Voyage!!!!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 13, 2010
at 5:13 PM
Thanks Poolman. I didn’t see your post until now. Thanks for taking the trouble to let me know. I loved the line about hating blue eyes, since my eyes are blue. Our C rations were vintage Korean War, and I loved the peaches. Once a field kitchen served us the best spaghetti and meat balls I ever ate. Since I was in the medical squadron we usually ate what hospital patients ate.
I was lucky. On a scale from blizzard to sunny day, my experience was more like a snow squall. It wasn’t that my advemtires were so bad, but that I was totally alone during the worst times, and I did things I would be jailed for in normal life. The worst part was it made me feel alive. I hated myself for that. We are all so civilized now in civilian life, but I can’t escape what is under the surface. Listen to Phil Colins’ “In the Air Tonight.”
“And I’ve been waiting this moment for all my life…Well if you told me you were drowning, I would not lend a hand
I’ve seen your face before my friend, but I don’t know if you know who I am
Well, I was there and I saw what you did, I saw it with my own eyes
So you can wipe off that grin, I know where you’ve been
Its all been a pack of lies…
Well I remember, I remember, don’t worry how could I ever forget”
The song raised the hear on the back of my head when I first heard it. It was almost as if Phil Collins was beside me that night.
My choice was to face the past head on without compartmentalizing, drugs or alcohol. I learned to control my dreams. Talking about it to anyone who would listen helped. Forgiveness worked too.
I still, when I meet people, even on this site guess who would try to kill me if past circumstances repeated and who would not.
Someone I met in the service said a friend told him a friend knew someone at the Gulf of Tonkin. He said the night was dark, and everyone was nervous. Someone fired, maybe at a shadow,, and others returned shots. The man thought the North Vietnamese who were lurking in the area were not involved. It was all paniced American sailors firing at each other. For some reason, I believed the crazy tale. So, yes, it bothered me. Since then, I have not trusted what politicians say without verification.
Professor53, your son reminds me of an e friend’s nephew. He has a learning disability and cannot stay focused on many things either.
He also had an aptitude for computers and though his grades weren’t so good, he entered community college where he is doing well. As you write, one doesn’t have to go to college to create a good career and to earn a lot of money.
Congratulations to Grandma Katie’s son. His overcoming extra challenges should make him a good teacher.
“Exciting times we live in people!” Yes, Poolman. Ancient Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times.”
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By: James on July 13, 2010
at 4:20 PM
This is a long article, but an interesting read. It does highlight a lot of what we are going through today. Connecting the dots is done at least once monthly by the authors of this site to attempt to tie everything we are experiencing together. Exciting times we live in, people!
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By: poolman on July 13, 2010
at 1:46 PM
This is an interesting read. Rae said at 11:29am July 12th that most CEOs are “notorious wife-beaters”. I don’t know if that is true or not, or how that plays out if a woman is the CEO, but this may also have some bearing on their actions. Psychopaths in charge of the Gulf disaster and cleanup. We have been able to identify them in politicians, but less obvious are the corporate elite.
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By: poolman on July 13, 2010
at 11:09 AM
Grandma Katie –
That’s great. My son is quite interesting, actually. He has no tolerance for subjects not of interest and cannot remain focused, but he is slain by computer programming, has taught himself, and can sit for more than twelve hours pounding the keyboard. No lack of focus there!
His grades are too low for college, but he received a job offer at the local Internet service provider right out of high school as a programmer. Amazing. The unemployment here is so high that experienced tradesmen and people with college degrees are going begging for work, but he was hired the day he graduated. I’m certainly grateful for that.
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By: PFesser53 on July 13, 2010
at 10:27 AM
My oldest grandson has Attention deficit and struggled all through grade school. Everything available was tried. Dad spent evenings working withu home w ork. Finally on his entrance to middle school they tried medication. It worked.
Now he is a young man preparing to be a teacher. He finishes his masters at USC this fall.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 13, 2010
at 10:04 AM
Good Morning all and James. James, I posted a link yesterday at 12:34pm and again (double post) at 12:36pm that I thought you might have an interest in. It is regarding the vets from Vietnam. I didn’t know if you checked it out, or not. It is not video, so your dial up should be okay. When I read it, I was thinking about you and the stories I have heard from some others I know that served there – the ones that are still around and can talk about it. Many have tried to disassociate themselves with that place, time, and those memories. I don’t know how successful that is. I know you still struggle with those demons. It is probably more distressing knowing now that the whole Gulf of Tonkin incident was fabricated to get us into war. It seems to be our MO.
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By: poolman on July 13, 2010
at 10:03 AM
The National Weather Service uses observers like me to determine “ground truth.” Rae wrote, “show me the facts…” which applies to the National Weather service. a teacher who assigns a term paper or the head of a research project.
A conservative blogger offered a large reward for any video or audio proof of Tea Party racism, and so far there are no takers. Lori essentially called the movement racist without proof. Of course it has a few outliers as all loosely organized groups do, but if she and others smear a group of people for the views of a few, what must she think of the Democratic party and organizations like the NAACP?
According to blogger Sistertoldja, former DNC finance chair, Michael Brown said on the Hannity show that the New Black Panthers who intimidated voters in 2008 were “just trying to protect black voters.”
We have heard the New Black Panther representative who advocated killing “cracker babies”. Why didn’t the NAACP offer a resolution condemning such racist speech? Why haven’t they condemned racist statements by Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, some of their own leaders, and overtly racist white supremacy groups?
This is about power, not race. Read Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals.” The Tea Party represents a threat. White racist organizations do not, and Democratic race baiters are allies, so the natural course is to marginalize and defame what is dangerous. Calling them names is part of the marginalization process.
My wife has been teaching high school for many years, and she has sometimes had to resort to creative ways to get students with emotional and mental problems into the graduation ceremonies. She was at school this spring for as long as twelve hours a day helping a student with ADHD finish a term paper to pass English and graduate. I don’t know if the girl was on medication.
My wife gave the girl a graduation present at her graduation party, but the family gave my wife one out of gratitude.
Rae may be onto something with her musings. PBS had a documentary and discussion with people suffering from mental disorders controlled by drugs. The psychiatrists said research has shown that counseling with or without drugs causes physical changes to the brain.
Other studies suggest video games and similar distractions are shortening attention spans in some young people.
I think Glenn Beck has ADHD. An e- friend we have met in California also has ADHD. He is intelligent and a good artist, but when we visited, bright shiny objects distracted him. A sea gull flew by, he stopped to look and forgot what he was talking about.
Ken Burns documentary on baseball mentioned a talented pitcher who won a lot of games around 1900. Opposing teams planted people in the audience. They held up puppies and other things to make the pitcher lose his concentration.
I agree with Alaskapi. One of our nephews also has a severe learning disability. His school and parents failed him. He never graduated and felt like a failure. Now, he owns his own business and is married with two small children. He did it without the help of his parents or school.
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By: James on July 13, 2010
at 8:13 AM
Pfessor-
I said “most”…
My ma was one of the earliest special ed teachers. I met kids like yours .
However, I have watched teachers bully parents into believing normal kinetic personalities are ill and my DIL deals with hundreds of parents and kids who have been pushed towards evaluation and most are fine.
What is wrong about ALL of it is that kids who are ADD/ADHD far too often don’t get the help they need unless their parents have the will to endlessly advocate for them while way too many kids who just need strategies to cope with learning end up on meds…
I have what is considered a severe learning disability- having folks who saw it early and helped devise strategies to offset it means I never suffered for it…
I wish that for all children.
Your son is lucky…
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By: alaskapi on July 12, 2010
at 10:08 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Damn! I was all set to ‘do’ Amish Country and then go make Tuna Croquettes tomorrow to freeze for our CA son and family coming out. But then y’all got going on ADD/ADHD, etc.
Well, anyway, our youngest son has lived out in Amish Country in PA for some 20 years.
Their little buggies go clippity-clopping down the streets all the time, but they are careful to stay well to the right and assiduously obey the traffic laws. The cars take care to go around them and not too fast, so there is peaceful co-existence all around.
Of course, it is farming country for both the Amish and the Mennonites, German immigrants from way back. Their farming methods are incredible!!! As I understand it, they have never liked and eschew mechanized equipment or modern fertilizers and pesticides that are screwing up our global environment. Yet, their produce and meat products are amazing.
There is an enormous super-super-supermarket called “Shady Maple” where everybody shops for everything, including toilet paper, Tylenol and Heinz Catsup.
Adjacent to the supermarket is an equally huge buffet restaurant with an array of food you would not believe, all reasonably priced. One of their specialties in the bakery section is their famous ‘Shoo-fly Pie’! You help yourself and sit at one of the long family style tables. We have enjoyed many a meal seated and chatting with Amish/Mennonite patrons. They were invariably cheerful and just as interested in us as we were in them as we dined.
The employees as well as many of the customers are Amish/Mennonite. They are easily distinguished from each other. The Amish women wear darling little white lace or net caps tied with a ribbon under the chin, and print cotton longish dresses, obviously cut from the same pattern, (not ‘Vogue’!) And oh, yes, sensible black shoes. The Amish men have beards, black hats, (which they remove indoors), white shirts, black pants and black suspenders.
The Mennonite women wear the little white caps but what we would consider regular feminine attair, although I don’t remember seeing any long pants. Obviously, no shorts. The Mennonite men with them are dressed indistinguishably from any other so-called ‘American Men’.
Now, I don’t see much difference than seeing a woman in a habit that denotes she is a nun, or a man wearing a white collar that denotes a clergyman. Or people who wear a crucifix around their necks to signify that they are Christian.
Anymore than Muslim women around the Mediterranean in floor length burkas, chadors and full-face veils or other women with merely different colored headscarves and otherwise ‘Western’ dress. Occasionally we saw a few Muslim men wearing long white robes and the traditional ‘Keffiyah’ and ‘Agal’ head coverings.
How about Orthodox Jewish men with their beards and Black hats? Indian men with their Turbans or women with their Saris? All these modes of dress are nothing more than expressions of their religious beliefs and customs whose specific meanings are lost in the mists of time.
BTW, what do grouchy, hyper-critical and egotistical old self-proclaimed Athiest wear to blend in with the crowd? I’ve seen pictures of Richard Dawkins and read his books. He seems like a reasonably tolerant and pleasant fellow.
Meanwhile, back in Amish country. The people are not adverse toward ‘exploiting’ their religion and culture for the benefit of the curious. We have visited both Amish and Mennonite well- established centers where local docents have lectured and demonstrated at length on their lifestyle. (The Mormons do the same thing in Salt Lake City. How about the California Missions all up and down the West coast? Every city in the U. S. has tours of one kind or another of its historical sites.)
Generally, the Amish/Mennonites have a delicate or sometimes indelicate sense of humor and are able to poke fun at themselves – not at others. There are also a number of very large permanent ‘tourist traps’ with an array of homemade crafts and quite lovely items. We have several refrigerator magnets, one of which could be considered quite naughty. Also there was a hand made plaque with a little black buggy logo, suitable for hanging on the wall. It said:
“Clop, clop, clop, bang! clop clop clop!
An Amish drive by shooting!”
On one of our visits, we got a welcome mat for the front door that says:
“We love our vacuum.
We have found God.
We gave at the office.”
Thanks.”
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 12, 2010
at 9:37 PM
I missed a lot of this discussion about ADHD, but I have a little to throw in, for what little it’s worth.
Twenty-one years ago, my little 18-month old daughter was quite sick with a high fever. The pediatrician prescribed Amoxicillin that day. I gave her the first dose, and my previously feverishly lethargic daughter began racing from one side of her bedroom to the other, repeatedly hurling herself from one wall to the other, for at least 10 minutes. I couldn’t get her to stop; I called my husband in to watch. We were stunned at her hyperactivity and dedication to running laps back and forth across her room. That was our first slap upside the head with hyperactivity in our daughter, brought on by the red food coloring in the Amoxicillin. The next day the doctor argued with me that it wasn’t the medicine, even though I told him it was the only new thing introduced to her, and, afterwards, within minutes, she reacted just that badly to it. I needed him to prescribe a different medicine that contained no food coloring, or, at least, no red. He grumbled and prescribed erythromycin, a white antibiotic, and my little girl was just sick with fever, fighting her illness once again, but getting better without any more mad racing about.
Within a short time, we began to notice that yellow food dye also set her off. If she ate a little bowl of Borden’s vanilla ice cream near bedtime, with its yellow #5 coloring, her sleep was disturbed all night, and she was cranky, too. But if she ate Bluebell vanilla ice cream, without the artificial yellow coloring in it, she was a happy little girl who slept well.
Through her years, we saw the direct results of diet in her life. We used the Feingold diet to help steer her down less troubled paths. Dr. Ben Feingold was a pediatric allergist who first connected the problems of his patients with foods, chemicals added to foods, and related issues.
“As he worked with patients he suspected of being sensitive to aspirin, he began to notice that they also reacted to some foods and food additives. He found, to his surprise, that not only did some people have physical reactions, but many experienced changes in their behavior.
“Although it is well-known that things like alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, and chemicals like drugs can affect behavior, most people don’t consider that chemicals added to foods may do the same.” http://www.feingold.org/faq.php
I know the Feingold Association of the United States is run by honorable and trustworthy parents themselves who try today, as they have for decades, to reach other parents who are at their wits’ end with the problems of their unmanageable children.
We survived our daughter’s childhood by following Feingold guidelines of dietary management, and we have always found their message to be on-target and wonderfully helpful. If you’d like more information about them, their web site is at http://www.feingold.org/
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By: elsie09 on July 12, 2010
at 9:36 PM
alaskapi –
I pooh-poohed ADHD and considered it “inconvenient behavior” for years – until I had a kid with it. From about three years of age, my son had terrific difficulty. If I wanted to know where he was, I just opened the door and I could instantly locate him in the neighborhood by his nearly continuous yelling at the top of his voice. In grade school he could not come close to passing any class without my constant tutelage every night. It got so bad that I couldn’t do more than two spelling words at a time, because with three he would forget how to spell the first one. I was in denial for a long time and lost precious months. Finally I had an observer go into his fourth grade class, because the teacher was worthless and I didn’t know who was at fault – she or my son.
In her report the observer said that the amazing thing was not that he had ADHD; it was that the other kids got anything done at all, he was so disruptive.
Reluctantly we gave him Adderall. It was like a block of stone opened up and my son walked out. But just like they say, it made him more manageable in the classroom, but it didn’t really help his grades much. We tried many different meds, some really bad, some less bad. All bad. We took him off it in the summers; we sent him for a month’s hiking in the Cascades; we did everything we could think of. He went to Sylvan in the summertime.
He has graduated from high school and has a job as a computer technician – something at which he excels. He takes no drugs and seems to have somewhat outgrown it, but his education level is not good. We are grateful for that little bit of good news, but we still don’t know what happened and if we in all our trials-and-errors did the right thing.
So I can tell you – it’s real. And I would pay a year’s salary to know what causes it and how to do something about it.
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By: pfesser53 on July 12, 2010
at 9:34 PM
I’m missing you Helen and Margaret. I hope all is well with you and yours.
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By: Shash on July 12, 2010
at 9:02 PM
Rae- Many fine teachers and mental health professionals think most of what is called ADD/ADHD is what you say here:
“ADHD, in my humble opinion, is a medical name we’ve given to natural behavior we find inconvenient.”
I’d be interested to hear what others here who have been or are in the teaching profession think…
There are compelling arguments that children have different learning styles and that most kids do well if some effort is made to adjust for that. The best teachers manage this easily…
Having lived a life without TV and raised a child without one I have no idea about the whole argument there but would caution seeing it as the be-all and end-all of bad guys…
What we now call autism was lumped together with all things we called “retarded” until relatively recently.
Many of those kids were institutionalized in the bad old days …
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By: alaskapi on July 12, 2010
at 9:00 PM
Recent comments made me think of this info I read some time ago regarding ADHD. Here’s another use for that medicinal plant we label illegal and criminal in our advanced state of knowledge. I am certain there are natural remedies for just about every ailment or symptom we can come up with. Doesn’t allow the drug companies to profit as much. Too bad. I’m so sorry. NOT!
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By: poolman on July 12, 2010
at 8:37 PM
Sorry, no one’s puppet — guess you’re the one who got me in trouble with ADHD.
And for whoever brought it up, I too wonder whether our epidemic of autism spectrum disorder, as well as ADHD, don’t have something to do with sitting immobile for hours in front of a television.
I wonder whether overloading the brain with information of one modality — visual — and depriving it of information of another modality — kinetic — doesn’t cause some problems. Not that I have done any research on this; I haven’t. Just musing …
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By: Rae on July 12, 2010
at 8:18 PM
Oh, Chris, now you are really going to get me in trouble. ADHD.
Of course no one had that diagnosis when I was a kid, because it hadn’t been invented yet. However, the “medicalization of deviance” was well underway by that time, and it’s only natural that “undesirable” behavior by children should come to be described in medical terms, and that medical personnel should become the enforcers of societal norms.
If our aim is to ensure that 25 or 30 kids can sit at their desks quietly for hours at a time, preparing them as my daughter says, for life in cubicle land, then we need to medicate a whole lot of them. Because, of course, that kind of behavior is in no way “natural.” Is it the only way children can learn? No, in fact they’re much better at learning by crashing through the woods and wading in the pond, poking around in the ant hill, climbing a tree to inspect the top of the roof. It’s not about what is best for the children, it’s about a bureaucracy that needs to operate EFFICIENTLY.
I don’t think kids have changed much since I was a kid. We did all walk to school, and ran around on the playground for 30 minutes or so before we went in, then again for another 30 minutes of recess. We played outside in the snow, too. They turned us loose in the gym on rainy days. I’m not sure what we’d have been like if we’d been driven to school, dropped off a couple of minutes before the bell, and expected to sit down immediately. I doubt we’d have behaved any better than kids do today.
ADHD, in my humble opinion, is a medical name we’ve given to natural behavior we find inconvenient. When I was a kid, if Tommy grabbed the ball away from another kid and went running across the playground, the teacher said, “Tommy, bring that ball back,” not “Tommy, did you take your medication?”
IMHO
(Just to head off the straw man attacks — yes, of course I know that there are severely brain damaged children who have an inability to attend to just about anything, and whose whirling and spinning and other activities never stop. Not what I’m talking about.)
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By: Rae on July 12, 2010
at 8:00 PM
Dr of Pediatric Psychology DIL thinks ADD/ADHD is way over diagnosed and that most kids she works with do quite well with no meds, lots of help with strategies to fit in just well enough to get by and lots of love until they are mature enough to pick up their own lives.
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By: alaskapi on July 12, 2010
at 7:20 PM
I barely survived a one-size-fits-all educational system, and that was a long time ago. It’s only gotten worse. Much, much worse.
My mother was the bane of our local primary school, since she taught us all to read as soon as we said we wanted to learn. She was informed as soon as my older sister (first child) hit kindergarten that this was The Teacher’s Job and her efforts were not at all appreciated. In fact, she was to cease and desist. (She didn’t). I was never formally taught even by my mother – apparently I learned while my sister was learning, by looking over her shoulder.
I was definitely one of those kids running around the classroom uncontrollably. Got me yanked out of the class, tested, and moved up a class mid-year. I don’t remember being informed of this decision. I just was taken out of one classroom, introduced to another one and placed in a seat. Spent the rest of the day wondering what the hell just happened and became an instant social pariah. Yippee.
We did have books everywhere, and not much TV. I could speed read & read everything I could get my hands on. Our local librarian dedicated herself to keeping me out of the adult section and tried to pen me up with the kiddy books. Curious George, when I was devouring Last of the Mohicans Girl of the Limberlost and Andre Norton. She eventually tried a compromise when I got to nine or ten and wanted to steer me to the young adult section. Icky, sticky girlish romances. Apparently these were preferable to chancing I might get my hands on Peyton Place. I knew every back route to the real books, including some she didn’t know. She never had a chance.
In junior high, we were supposed to read Great Expectations and class time was set aside for this; sometimes almost a whole period. The teacher noticed right away I wasn’t doing what everybody else was, and called me forward. I explained I’d already read it. She gave me a detailed verbal exam, had to accept that I was telling the truth, and started listing off more Dickens – finally, it was determined that I hadn’t read Old Curiosity Shop yet, and I was sent down to the library to get it. Two days later, we repeated the ritual. This time, I had to write a paper on the book, and was then assigned another. We did this three times in all, before I finally started just propping the current book in front of me and daydreaming for an hour, which the teacher was careful not to notice. I was very aware she was coming to loathe the sight of me. I was a lot of extra work in an already overloaded schedule.
I had some good teachers, but overall, I was not lucky in that regard. That doesn’t mean they didn’t exist, but a system – any system – is not set up to handle weirdly-shaped pegs. The more regimented it is, the worse it will be. Corporal punishment to beat me into manageability? With my personality, I would have been neither manageable nor educated at the end of it. If it had worked, I still wouldn’t have been educated – just manageable. Maybe that’s what the conservatives are aiming for – I wouldn’t put it past them.
Incidentally, my older sister was told in later life that she was an adult ADHD and needed to go on the drugs right away. She declined.
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By: judith on July 12, 2010
at 6:59 PM
Juneau Joe-
Downtown…
and I think Zephyr is new since you went walkabout… next to Silverbow.
Donna- glad you DID make it here…
Wildflowers are stunning right now.
paintbrush,chocolate lily, lupine, roseroot, wooly lousewort, sitka valerian, wild colombine, avens, violets, ground dogwood, narcissus anemone, wild geranium…so many more…
heaven…
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By: alaskapi on July 12, 2010
at 6:47 PM
Banff is our next trip, Auntie Jean!!
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By: Donna on July 12, 2010
at 5:49 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Donna and Juneau Joe,
I just have to jump in on Mendenhall Glacier. We took a helicopter and landed right on it. Awesome!!!
Also we have been to Banff – twice. Would go again in a heartbeat if we could hobble on to an airplane and fly away again.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 12, 2010
at 5:43 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Rae,
Isn’t it delicious to wiggle your newly emancipated toes in your bejeweled sandals?
I appreciate you, and jsri too, for doing our homework for us on the current concesus of expert thinking regarding hot button issues.
God willin’ and the crik don’t rise, I will have a few thousand words to say this evening about Amish/Mennonite country in PA. They are not nearly as insulated as popular outside opinion might think. Many of them are almost mainstream.
Our youngest son and his family live among them.
They know many people but not intimately enough to ask them whether they spank their children or not, as well as child rearing practices in general.
Over the past 20 years, we have visited them often but not in the past 4 years. I seriously doubt if much has changed radically since then. The Amish/Memonite acres and acres of farms were lush and immaculate. A weed wouldn’t have a prayer there!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 12, 2010
at 5:25 PM
Dang double post! I will say once you hit “submit” it does go, even if you hit “stop” or if it doesn’t show right away. Sorry about that.
Regarding the ADD and ADHD, studies are being done all the time, and there have been links to diet primarily. Nothing is conclusive, though. Some say that wheat gluten has a bearing on it. Some say high fructose corn syrup exacerbates it. Some say the processed foods, or our use of fertilizers and insecticides. Some indicate the radiation we are constantly being bombarded with that has proven disruptive may have contributing factors. Others have suggested some of the vaccines we require have an impact. I have even seen some studies that claim the chemicals we are exposed to regularly in today’s consumer marketplace play a role.
Sometimes the medication is worse than the disorder. The drug manufacturers are happy to provide medications for profit. The more, the merrier. The further we get from nature, the more we will see these abnormalities, IMHO.
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By: poolman on July 12, 2010
at 4:32 PM
“but does anyone here of a certain age, maybe over sixty, remember children with ADD or ADHD from our own childhoods”
IMHO
They were the kids that ran with scissors. They were the kids that always had to sit next to the teacher’s desk.
They were the kids that had few friends because they were impulsive. The boys tended to grab toys out of the hands of other kids.
The girls tended to daydream most of the time.
Usually teachers knew what to do to keep them focused.
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By: chris on July 12, 2010
at 4:31 PM
Juneau Joe and no one’s puppet –
Know what the rate of ADHD is in Amish kids?
Unheard of.
I had and ADHD kid. He just graduated from high school and I held my breath for twelve years. My wife lived with the Amish for a while when she was in college and believes it is entirely situational. I am intrigued by that take on things, since the brain has been shown to be very “plastic,” which is to say it can change structurally in response to environmental factors – for example if you cover kittens’ eyes for six weeks after birth they will be irrecoverably blind. I still remember my kids watching “PowerPuff Girls,” in which the screen flashes from scene to scene about every four seconds. It’s vertigo-inducing. I gave them access to “educational” videogames very early on; both of them to some extent became addicted, to the point I had to take the computers literally out of the house. I always wonder what would have happened if I had raised them without computers or TV…
Thoughts?
Jim
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By: PFesser on July 12, 2010
at 4:20 PM
jsri –
Great post about your wife. I talked to one of my grade school teachers many years ago and she told me that when she was right out of teacher’s college she applied at my little grade school. Mr. Barrett, the principal, took her for a little walk around the playground and told her to not worry; he and the more experienced teachers would help her get started. She related that they did exactly that – something she credited with a lifetime of accomplishment. I can vouch for her success.
When I say the system is rotten to the core, I mean exactly that. The SYSTEM. I don’t think today’s teachers are on average less smart, but they are surely less well-trained.
I was later on the school board in my old county, and some of my teachers were still teaching! All of them were despondent. They spent so much of their time on process; the concept of wasting time producing a lesson plan to teach second graders *anything* just blew my mind. When they went home, their day was about 2/3 over. Nuts. Just nuts. They didn’t make much money but they never had; that complaint took second place to a general feeling of helplessness.
The superintendent and I used to drink a little liquor and play bluegrass; he told me that he got an inch-thick report of Federal and State compliance requirements every thirty days; this on top of those he got LAST month and the month before. They have a whole department dedicated to “compliance.” Kids learn by time-on-task, not process. Good teachers won’t stay in that kind of environment.
The best example was the number of employees. Being on the Board, I had access to the data. In 1960, when I was in grade school, that county Board had: Superintendent, Assistant Super, Truant Officer, Secretary for a county of 2500 students. That’s it. When I was on the Board, there were over 100 employees in the Central Office, and due to population loss it now had 1500 students total. I’m not making these numbers up; as a board member I had access to anything I wanted.
It ain’t working. Everybody is miserable. Parents are angry, teachers completely demoralized; each blames the other. This has to stop.
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By: PFesser on July 12, 2010
at 4:10 PM
nope–hiked in on the tougher of the trails. And absolutely loved it. And yes on the caves!
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By: Donna on July 12, 2010
at 4:08 PM
Never been there but I will certainly try it out.
Isn’t Mendenhall great! Did you take a helicopter?
Did you check out the ice caves?
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By: JuneauJoe on July 12, 2010
at 3:58 PM
JJ: Downtown, on Seward. If you are going to treat yourself to a really great dinner, this is absolutely the place. We went there after hiking to/on the Mendenhall–it was as perfect a day as you can have.
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By: Donna on July 12, 2010
at 3:11 PM
ADD ADHD: I think chemicals in our environment play a large part as well. Along with that, the way you have to keep a constant eye on your kids gives them little/no time to act like stupid kids. When I was a little guy, I was all over town, without a worry.
Today – I would not let my grandkids live the life I lived – too dangerous.
Chemicals in the atmosphere and another thing – food! McDonald’s and instant foods are not nearly the kind of meals which the body should be getting nutrition from. TV and video games also play into the ADD ADHD.
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By: JuneauJoe on July 12, 2010
at 3:00 PM
I’m probably crazy to step into the child rearing/education issue again, but does anyone here of a certain age, maybe over sixty, remember children with ADD or ADHD from our own childhoods, I sure don’t. I can’t help but think overexposure to television contributes to school issues. And for that matter, how can we say a child has an attention disorder, if they are capable of watching hours of television without even flinching?
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By: no one's puppet on July 12, 2010
at 2:48 PM
Rae ,
I made a trek to that Banff glacier..not 6 weeks worth..
But this was in 1990.
Is it gone now?
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By: Craig on July 12, 2010
at 2:26 PM
Donna, Zephyr? Where was it located? Waterfront, downtown juneau or the mall area?
Rae: Glaciers: They are retreating in AK too – significantly. There is still a major Glacier behind Juneau that is 160 miles long but it is shrinking.
PermaFrost along the Yukon River has been melting for 20+ years. I got to hang around Mendenhall Glacier for a year and looking forward to spending another year or two checking it out again.
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By: JuneauJoe on July 12, 2010
at 2:23 PM
PFesser —
I repeat: show me facts, and I will listen. Tell me a story about your children, and it won’t make much of a difference, because we all have stories about our children.
I will listen to other points of view; I just value facts over opinion. A great logical or philosophical argument is compelling as well, so feel free to make a case along those lines.
Yes, I know the Qur’an and the Bible both encourage physical discipline of wives and children. I don’t consider either of those books to be an authority on the subject, sorry.
Finally, anyone who doesn’t care about this issue is a puzzle to me. It isn’t just about the effect on a child; it’s about the effect on a society. Like Poolman, I am concerned about our society, its values, its level of violence. Is anyone really arguing that societal violence is the result of insufficient use of corporal punishment? Maybe we could tell that to the Scandinavians, who are able to leave their children in strollers on the sidewalk while they shop in the store.
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By: Rae on July 12, 2010
at 1:19 PM
Juneau Joe, I am so envious! I backpacked for 6 weeks one time in Glacier/Banff and it was magnificent. The glaciers are mostly gone, though. Hard to imagine in my own lifetime. At least Alaska still has them.
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By: Rae on July 12, 2010
at 1:04 PM
Juneau Joe: Have you been to Zephyr restaurant? Absolutely wonderful food.
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By: Donna on July 12, 2010
at 12:49 PM
JeanΔ ¥ on July 11, 2010 at 5:38 PM
Sorry about that. I get carried away when I start writing about my wife but I really get annoyed when someone trashes all educators as incompetent fools or worse. She was anything but. It has been my experience that those who yell the loudest are often short on self reflection and would be more accurate in their fault finding if they spent more time looking into a mirror for culprits.
And I have great respect for someone like Vgman who deals with a classroom full of pre-pubescent adolescents on a daily basis. I can’t think of a more exhausting situation other than teaching in one of today’s middle schools.
I spent almost half of my academic career in positions where I evaluated programs and instruction and, as in any career field, found that delivery ranged from outstanding to indifferent. The worst was in a unionized state college where any negative reviews, no matter how slight, were challenged and ended up in mediation. The time wasted in such hearings was outrageous and valuations eventually became as insipid as eyewash. On the other hand, I was also involved with a private college that had no union and faculty members were so poorly paid they qualified for food stamps. Tenure there was not a problem. No one stayed long enough to qualify and most eventually found desirable positions elsewhere. I called it Steppingstone U.
I’ll reserve comment on the discipline issue. I was never a spanker or a spankee so I only know what research has suggested, that it may be a bad idea.
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By: jsri on July 12, 2010
at 12:49 PM
Rae et al –
I’m sorry I brought this topic up; it is guaranteed to cause strife to no purpose and is clearly doing it here.
Rae, clearly this is a topic very important to you – maybe too important. There are other points of view, and I would feel more comfortable with *your* pov if you were more willing to consider that of *others*. Clearly the kids in America aren’t making it, and a very frustrated population of parents is trying to figure out why. I don’t think we can solve the problem here; IMHO the problem is one of more variables than equations – spanking is one variable of many, and who know how big a role it plays. I will say this: a visit of a week or two to an Amish community is pretty eye-opening. They spank their kids when needed and consider it a sad but necessary duty – and a parent weak and neglectful who does not do it. In my former life as an amateur farmer I have dealt with them regularly and have never found more polite, well-adjusted, happy – and yes, disciplined children anywhere. Maybe that’s not why, but it certainly happens as needed and none of them seems the worse for wear.
BTW – I’m glad that in your world facts trump bullshit. Realize, however that you’re not special in that way – but the problem is that everybody is sure that *their* opinions constitute the “facts” and everybody else’s constitute the “bullshit.” I think most of the people here are honest and well-motivated, and most have children, so I wouldn’t characterize their opinions as “bullshit.”
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By: PFesser53 on July 12, 2010
at 12:42 PM
Even if we raise our youth as close to perfect as we can in our finite capacity, we still are putting them into a society that doesn’t learn from our past and has continued to sacrifice that same youth for the benefit of a few. These experiences do plenty to undermine any good we are striving to impart to our future generations.
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By: poolman on July 12, 2010
at 12:36 PM
And even if we raise our youth as close to perfect as we can in our finite capacity, we still are putting them into a society that doesn’t learn from our past and has continued to sacrifice that same youth for the benefit of a few. These experiences do plenty to undermine any good we are striving to impart to the future of humanity
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By: poolman on July 12, 2010
at 12:34 PM
Grandma Katie: Happy Birthday!!
No village this time. I will be in Juneau. I want to hike into the Glaciers and kayak out to the Glacier too. It takes more of a person than I to be in a village. The people of the AK villages are amazing people but I am a city boy who got to hang out in the village for 6 months.
We have a Costco, Safeway and Fred Meyer in Juneau – regular city stuff.
Alaska Pi – you work downtown or out by Costco?
I will look you up.
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By: JuneauJoe on July 12, 2010
at 12:31 PM
Rae, I have no desire to debate you on proper punishment techniques for kids, nor do I care how “up” on the data you are. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. As parents we each have our own responsibility to raise our own children. Mine turned out great. No one’s puppet’s turned out great. She didn’t spank. I did. I don’t need government intervention or so called “experts” telling me how to raise my kids. I’ll consider their ideas, but for me, show me the results. With all our intellect and experts and surveys and books and studies and opinions and modern means of disseminating information, you would think we would be getting MUCH better results. I’ll let you do your own research as to how much better statisically you think we are doing raising our youth today and enabling them to succeed and function in society compared to a time when we weren’t so enlightened.
I also have also experienced different parenting techniques over my lifetime. As a waiter in college there were always the well-behaved kids that came out in public with their parents and then the opposite – the uncontrollable brats that mom and dad were trying to bribe into obedience or just totally ignored.
I see that in our society today. I have observed that the best behaved and the most self-confident kids come from homes where the parents or a single parent is engaged and interested in their activities and development, regardless of the form of discipline administered. I know some are physically abused. This is NOT the same as spanking. I also think there is considerably more damage done by non-physical abuses, sexual predators, or simply absent caregivers. Sexual abuse doesn’t have to be physical, either. No data cited – merely an observation in my 53 years of life experience.
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By: poolman on July 12, 2010
at 12:22 PM
Lori and Jean,
You will be amused to hear that I accidentally left my tennis shoes in my hotel room a few days ago, so I am now sitting here in my bejeweled sandals. I suppose I will have to replace them eventually, but for now, no shorts with tennis shoes.
The nights under the stars were fabulous! I am renewed.
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By: Rae on July 12, 2010
at 12:12 PM
jsri,
Your wife sounds like a fabulous teacher. I ran into a few of those along the way — they really take your breath away.
A tidbit about mainstreaming: I talked a bit about the Harlem Promise Neighborhood Project a few days ago. Remember that I said the goal was “100% of the students perform at or above grade level”? Well, early on the administration had to grapple with the “Special Ed” question. In that neighborhood, a very large (and growing) percentage of children were “Special Ed.” Do we exclude these kids from our goal or not? What are the implications? Doesn’t the system incent parents and schools to classify more and more kids as “Special Ed,” parents to obtain additional free services for their kids, schools to improve their numbers? Yes, the “disability” movement is another of our dirty little secrets — the benefits associated with a disability diagnosis encourage people to seek disability status. Is everyone in the future going to be disabled? Anyway, that’s a different subject.
The Harlem project decided to include ALL of the kids in their goal. Yes, even the “Special Ed” kids are expected to meet state standards. Canada argued that “Special Ed,” just meant special needs, and special educational approaches, but that the goal should remain the same. Clearly, the Project has funding sufficient to make that approach workable, another long subject for discussion. Last I heard, however, the project was succeeding — all kids, not just the few left without a diagnosis.
(If anyone has more current info, fill us in)
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By: Rae on July 12, 2010
at 12:08 PM
jsri,
Good article. Not sure we’re at cross-purposes here (and everywhere in the world of humankind), but we certainly argue from facts without changing minds.
I’m aware of that, which is why I say “facts trump bullshit in my world.” Yes, people are persuaded in a very different way. Thus the success of advertising in driving people to accumulate crap they can never use, to the point of bankruptcy. It’s not hard to get people to act in opposition to their own self-interest, as others have pointed out in our tea party discussions.
I’m just unwilling to punctuate my arguments with nubile, half-dressed, 16-year-olds, lounging over the hoods of hot cars or QVC-type appeals to desperate women unable to face the truth of their inability to measure up to the standard set by the car-hood babes.
It’s not hard to convince people if you’re willing to lie. Whole populations have been convinced to exterminate minorities with whom they’ve lived in relative peace and harmony for centuries. How do you bend the minds of that many people? Well, not with the facts, that’s for sure.
Want to convince me of something? It’s easy, really. Just the facts.
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By: Rae on July 12, 2010
at 11:56 AM
Poolman, you just have to understand science here. “My child was spanked and is a fine upstanding citizen” is absolutely irrelevant. That’s because we have no control — we don’t know what your child would or could have been had he or she NOT been spanked. (Same goes for my fine upstanding citizens, who haven’t been spanked.) That’s why anecdotal evidence is considered suggestive, perhaps, and reason to do research, but is not considered to add anything to the body of scientific knowledge in and of itself.
Furthermore, yes, there is some limited evidence that corporal punishment promotes short-term compliance. Occasional studies show beneficial effects, but because a sample is just a sample, scientists insist upon replication, in order to rule out with reasonable confidence, sampling error. Show me not one study, but a meta-study, a review of a number of studies published in peer-reviewed journals, supporting your theories. Then I will believe you. Sorry, but my evidence is just a whole lot bigger than your evidence.
You also make a mistake in comparing this issue to abortion. People have strong feelings about abortion, but here the similarity ends. In abortion, the differences are not related to questions of FACT. The questions in abortion relate to the weight one gives to the different interests involved — mother’s freedom to make decisions regarding her own health and body, the rights a fetus might have to life, the wisdom of using public funding for a procedure about which there are moral disagreements, etc. Factual questions — is prohibition likely to reduce the prevalence of abortion, for example — are not the basis for the disagreement.
Feel free to argue that you like spanking, and that you’re going to keep doing it because you think parents’ rights to make decisions are more important than the welfare of the child. But if you are going to argue that it “works,” in any way other than that you get immediate compliance, you are going to have a hard time defending it.
CEOs were spanked? Yep. They’re also notorious wife-beaters. Your point?
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By: Rae on July 12, 2010
at 11:29 AM
Alaski Pi and Juneau Joe- so glad to see you back! and Juneau Joe – will you be going back to the same village?
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By: Grandma Katie on July 12, 2010
at 10:51 AM
Matthew – please can you give us an undate on your Aunt Helen? We are getting quite concerned.
More for the punishment saga.
My 2nd son was an imp. he delighted in tormenting me.He was 3 or 4 and busy one evening tormenting his baby sister. I was reaching into a closet to get a yard stick to punsh him when he swerved out of my reach and ran unto a dor, followed by a trip to the Dr’s office and three stitches to hi forhead. A couple of years later he was getting ready for school.As \I was oon the phone he began tormet=nting me again and tripped over a rug. Anopther trip to ‘Dr and foot in a cast with three broken bones. As he sat on the X-ray table, he looked across to the room where hue had his head stitched and said “I shouldn’t have yelledlike that. should I>”
He did enough things for the rest of his siblings.
Fortunately they didn’t do the devilry he didor I might have become a babbyling idiot.
I donot remember punishing any of t hem. I could take them shopping and theynever touched things or asked to buy.
Today they have well behaved kids. and all well disciplined, and o nice to be around.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 12, 2010
at 10:47 AM
Hi everyone!
Just hopped on the porch for some pie. Anyone heard anything from M&H? It’s been a long time since their last post.
Coffee and tea for everyone!
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By: Cindi on July 12, 2010
at 9:33 AM
I am looking forward to being back. Two years and then back to the lower 48 is the current plan.
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By: JuneauJoe on July 12, 2010
at 8:52 AM
JuneauJoe-
Berries will be ready to pick and fish will be running when you get home…
and no whatzername in our beautiful Governor’s Mansion!
We’ll have to have a party!
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By: alaskapi on July 12, 2010
at 7:54 AM
lori – great article! Thanks
Alaskapi – I will be in Juneau August 12 and beyond
juneauJoe
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By: JuneauJoe on July 12, 2010
at 5:36 AM
I concur alaskapi! (7-11-10 9:05pm) It was very good….I see this very dynamic at work in my own family much to my horror.
No matter how gently I can show proof of an error, both my Mom and baby brother believe, they become more entrenched and frantic in defending their position. It just DOESN”T MATTER that what they believe they’ve been told is wrong.
I don’t try anymore….I love them dearly and dislike strongly the strife that occurs whenever anything political creeps into conversations. I just refuse to pick up that particular asp and give it the succor of my breast!
Needless to say there’s not much really deep conversing happening when we see one another. But we don’t seem to have alot in common any longer. All my Mom watches is Fox whenever she has the boob tube on, and my poor brother eats sleeps and breaths Rush.
I confess I did listen to Rush once upon a time, but after about 6 months of chewing on his stew, I made a decision to not go to that particular well ever again for my thirst. That was back in ’92.
As for Fox……….I’ve never watched (other than clips I see online). I just didn’t figure it had any nutritional value judging from the crap shows, and titillating reality fare Murdock et al were shoveling into America’s waiting maw. Used to have big disagreements with my girls back when they were at home about the crap Fox broadcast. Didn’t want it coming into my home. Read a Book for Heavens sake!!!!!!
I’m more of a PBS, Discovery type gal. And I like classic movies when I get to watch! Mainly, I prefer listening to music! Rapsody on a Theme of Paganini is one of my more favorite Rachmaninoff movements Auntie Jean!! I remember going to sleep to Piano Concerto No. 2 in C Minor, Op.18 when I was in the 5th grade and we lived with my Uncle who was a concert pianist.
He had the pleasure of having accompanied the late great Joan Sutherland many times, and of playing a command performance at the White House for Gerald Ford! This Uncle of mine is now retired and living down in Oro Valley, just a little north of Tucson nestled right at the feet of the Santa Catalinas. I love to go visit! He plays organ for a small congregation around the corner from his home and works with adult students of the piano out of his home also.
I have to balance the Rachmaninoff tho’….I still enjoy listening to the mighty Zepplin from time to time and enjoy having alot of Plant’s subsequent work too. My favorite there is Fate of Nations, with the last cut on the disk being the most powerful imo…..”Network News”. Hubby and I did our darndest to find video of Plant preforming that song to no avail! Even tho’ that disk was put out in response to the first Gulf War, I believe it is still pertinent to the current times we find ourselves in.
I must say good night to all. My Mondays start around 5:30am and it’s coming fast! May everyone have a restful blessed sleep! You know the kind…where you wake up with a song in your heart deeply refreshed!! 🙂
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By: azgrandma on July 12, 2010
at 12:00 AM
jsri-
excellent article!
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By: alaskapi on July 11, 2010
at 9:05 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri,
Your beautiful tribute to your WW (Wonder Wife) brought tears to my eyes and a lump in my throat. You and she are a remarkable couple.
Your WW reminded me lovingly of my own mother although their upbringing was very different. Born in 1898, in rural Louisiana, she was the 10th in a family of 12 children. During the Influenza Epidemic of 1918, she had it and survived! Two of her siblings died.
She attended Louisiana State Normal College, (now LSU.) Few women even went to school at all in those days, let alone college. Later she took educational courses at the Univ. of Chicago.
She became the proverbial ‘School Marm’ in a one room schoolhouse with every grade imaginable. Her sweetheart was killed in Europe in WW I. However, as fate would have it she met a handsome widower, a ‘Damn Yankee’ at that, with two small children, ages 3 and 5. She married him. They had two children, me and my younger sister.
To her dying day there was nothing she loved more than to get her hands on some kid, any kid and teach him/her something, anything. I am who I am today because of her and of course her handsome ‘Damn Yankee’. They persevered together through the Great Depression and every other vicissitude that life has a habit of throwing at people.
She had a short series of mini-strokes and could no longer speak. In the hostpital shortly before she died, she smiled at me and weakly lifted her hand to wave ‘Bye-bye’.
The unsung true heroes of every generation.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 11, 2010
at 5:38 PM
“Results are what count” – no one’s puppet. Yes! We can agree here. It is the end result, or the “fruit” of our labor that we should be looking at to determine whether we have raised them successfully. My daughters were totally different from each other and we tailored discipline techniques for each one, based on effectiveness. Overall, they were very good kids. Much of their stability was due to my wife being a full-time mom. My grandkids are completely different and discipline is custom tailored to each of them. For instance, time out works best for the youngest, and restricting video games works better for the oldest one.
jsri, that was a good article. It explains plenty – and we have seen examples here on M&H’s blog as facts and myths are bandied about. I have changed my opinion and beliefs on quite a few subjects since I began coming here. But then I am open to learning and do so daily. I know plenty that hold tightly to misconceptions even when faced with facts. It is usually frustrating to deal with such people. Anymore, I just try to move on. It is hard for me to do, though. The old adage applies, “you can lead a horse to water,…
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By: poolman on July 11, 2010
at 2:33 PM
If you have ever wondered why people on this blog always seem to be talking at crossed purposes, this article may have some answers.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/
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By: jsri on July 11, 2010
at 1:27 PM
It is pretty easy to pick skewed anecdotal examples to buttress a negative assessment of educators so I guess I can do something similar in refutation. But to denounce education by broad brush claiming, “the school system is rotten to the proverbial core” I think not.
In 1955, at the beginning of the baby boomer generation, my wife got her first teaching job. She was a graduate of a top tier college with a BA in English Lit and based on her resume and an interview was given an emergency teaching certificate. But her first teaching assignment was not a high school class as she expected. Instead it was in a 2-room rural schoolhouse in a classroom covering grades 3,4 and 5. At the outset she had zero teaching experience and was given two whole days to prepare.
Fortunately, her assigned supervisor was a master teacher who knew the politics of her neighborhood as well as she knew her students and their families. What her supervisor got in return for her own efforts was an intelligent, creative and devoted teacher, an acutely organized, exceptional performer who relied not on threats or intimidation but on humanity and compassion as her most effective teaching techniques. And she is also a very funny lady.
My Wonder Wife (WW) has an uncanny way of deflecting anger and channeling hostility in positive directions. She is a very skilled questioner and always amazes me as to how much she can learn about a person in a very few minutes. The subject is always the person she is talking with, it is never about herself or about politics or religion. Most never learn that she suffers from a chronic ailment that can be quite debilitating, that she has a PhD, that she is a caring mother and grandmother, or that she had nothing but superlative reviews in her 33 years of teaching. She would never shove her accomplishments down anyone’s throat just to make a point.
One would never predict such a personality given her early life. Her mother died in childbirth and, instead of being handed over to a local orphanage, she was adopted by her dour Scottish grandmother. Her father remarried but never took an ounce of responsibility for her upbringing. When Grandmother died nine years later, WW was left in the hands of a gaggle of aunts and uncles who clothed and fed her and paid for her education. None of these people had schooling beyond ninth grade.
Teaching school, she was superbly organized and knew exactly where each child was along the promotion trail. She was once chastised by a principal for not having a class lesson plan for a substitute covering her room for a day. What he failed to note was that she had 22 lesson plans, one for each student. By her third year at the rural school, she began seeing students in her classroom from outside her district, often children of politically connected parents. However, all children got equal treatment.
Three years later the town closed the rural school and she had the pick of three different schools. The school she selected had a first grade opening and a principal highly regarded by his teachers. For the next 27 years she taught first grade because, according to her, “the first grade will make or break a child as a student.”
She became a cooperating teacher and soon had a constant train of students from a nearby teachers college in her classroom. After seven years of this, the college invited her to teach at their on-campus elementary school. She finally accepted an appointment to the college and spent the next 20 years on the faculty there but still teaching first grade as well as college students.
When she retired, it wasn’t a teaching problem that sent her away, it was administrative incompetence. The school board began by mainstreaming special needs students without offering any sort of assistance to the teachers. Any teacher who has had the bad luck to have to face this situation knows that one such child, unattended, can be such a distraction that all educational efforts go south in a heartbeat. Also, toward the end, the school had taken on an array of inner city students who had been troublesome in public schools and many ended up in her class. No matter what they threw at her, she took in stride. Finally, about 20 years ago she faced an unsettling situation with a principal using his job as a stepping stone for a superintendent’s job. It was all about a petty school policy and when he threatened to put a letter of reprimand in her file, she didn’t fight, instead, at the end of the year she took a hike. I don’t know what he gained, but her retirement was a huge loss for the school.
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By: jsri on July 11, 2010
at 1:15 PM
Or as Shakespeare might have put it
“Neither a hitter nor a hittee be!”
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By: Anonymous on July 11, 2010
at 12:17 PM
Results are what count, my son recently was promoted over his boss and his boss’ boss, that’s because he has self discipline. Not because he was spanked, but because I took the time to explain consequences in the real world. And he is not the only one of my children to thrive without a spanking, one of my daughters is a successful business owner and the other daughter is highly successful in her field and climbing the corporate ladder at a phenomenal pace.
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By: no one's puppet on July 11, 2010
at 12:15 PM
Good morning people. This child discipline issue is just as controversial as the abortion debate. Those who say you should never and those who say you should are about equal. Studies show positive results for the advocation of both. None are conclusive or unbiased. This article found positive results, though the author is against the practice. Spanking seems to be most effective between the ages of 2 and 6. This one claims 90 percent of successful CEO’s were spanked and that helped in their own self-discipline. Of course if you publicly claim to support it today, you are ostracized and called an abuser in society. And unfortunately there is sometimes physical abuse that is lumped in with discipline that includes spanking.
Once again I point out – a one-size-fits-all mentality doesn’t work for life, but that is how we try to package it. Limiting our parental options is detrimental to development. If we can get that simple concept, we will see more successes.
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By: poolman on July 11, 2010
at 9:27 AM
And now that I have monopolized the blogspace this a.m., I am heading back into the woods for fabulous music, dancing, friends, and a night under the stars. No computer!
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By: Rae on July 11, 2010
at 6:55 AM
I wish I could say this will be my last post on this topic, but it probably won’t, because I care too much. But at least this one will be shorter.
Geoffrey Canada’s Harlem experiment, by providing cradle-to-graduation services to a critical mass of children, seeks to permanently change the culture of a large neighborhood. Its goal is to have 100% of the kids, no exceptions, meet or exceed state educational standards, and go on to graduate from high school on time. It seems to be working, and is the model for the “Promise Neighborhood” projects being funded all over the country.
The program begins with parenting classes before or shortly after children are born. And you know what the parenting classes are about? One thing: punishment. The young, impoverished, uneducated parents are taught other methods of discipline. Why? Because research shows that early learning is impaired by the use of corporal punishment.
Canada is frank about his intent. Certain values and child rearing techniques lead to better success in school and in the mainstream economy, and he wants to make sure people in impoverished communities have access to them.
The schools that seem to be working? KIPP, for example? No corporal punishment. Simple rules, effectively communicated, consistently enforced, without physical punishment. It works.
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By: Rae on July 11, 2010
at 6:52 AM
Yes, I am passionate about this. And cannot fathom how anyone could approach parenting so casually that he or she fails to think beyond “that’s how I was raised and I turned out ok.”
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By: Rae on July 11, 2010
at 6:11 AM
A few years ago, my local newspaper published an editorial extolling the virtues of spanking and bemoaning the decline in discipline in the schools, etc.
I did some research (because facts trump bullshit in my world). I was spanked. My children were never spanked, and are wonderful, loving, responsible adults. So what? I wanted to know what the current knowledge was on the subject.
Here is the letter I wrote in response. It was published, and caused a big controversy in the town. Some references follow. I removed names to avoid hate mail and visits by crazies.
“To the Editor:
[the Editor] spoke to the “politics” of paddling in his column published April 4. At stake is the welfare of our children, and of our society as a whole, since today’s poorly-reared children are tomorrow’s non-contributors, or worse. It is too important to be relegated to the political arena where popular opinion rules. Let’s instead talk about the science of paddling.
Here’s a quick summary of the results of a large body of research:
1. The only demonstrated benefit of corporal punishment of children is short-term compliance
2. Physically punished children are more likely to commit crimes as adults
3. People who commit violent crimes as adults were almost always subjected to severe corporal punishment as children
4. The more a child is spanked, the more likely he is to assault siblings and other children
5. The more a child is spanked, the more likely he is to be alcoholic, depressed, masochistic, and suicidal as an adult
6. Parents who use corporal punishment are more likely to physically assault each other
7. Parents who abuse their children generally started with corporal punishment
Not every person who was spanked grows up to be a criminal or depressed or suicidal. Not every parent who spanks ends up an abuser. But given its questionable benefit, and its harmful effects, a number of countries, including many of the European countries, have banned the use of corporal punishment by parents (nearly all countries ban its use in schools). New Zealand and Australia are considering doing the same. In many Asian countries it is legal, but frowned upon. And yes, California (with an economy that puts it among the top ten countries of the world) is also considering banning it. The official policy of the American Academy of Pediatrics bans its use, in part because stresses on parents may push them past punishment into abuse, but also because it has been proven to have limited long-term effectiveness.
As [the Editor] points out, child-rearing requires considerable patience and commitment. Those of us who take it seriously know that the end game isn’t good kids we can brag about, but good adult citizens. It takes more effort and more time to use discipline (training by instruction and practice) than corporal punishment (infliction of pain to effect behavior change). We should commend parents who do the hard, slow work of parenting and eschew the quick fix called spanking.”
Here are some references if you are really interested in the facts, and aren’t simply justifying your own behavior:
Cohen P. How can generative theories of the effects of punishment be tested? Pediatrics 1996; 98:834-836
Gershoff, E. Corporal punishment by parents and associated child behaviors and experiences: A meta-analytic and theoritecal review. Psychological Bulletin. 2002; 128(4): 539-579.
Graziano AM, Hamblen JL, Plante WA. Subabusive violence in child rearing in middle-class American families. Pediatrics 1996; 98:845-848
Larzelere, Robert E. A Review of the Outcomes of Parental Use of Nonabusive or Customary Physical Punishment. Pediatrics 1996; 98:824-831.
MacMillan, HL, et al., Slapping and spanking in childhood and its association with lifetime prevalence of psychiatric disorders in a general population. Canadian Medical Association Journal 1999; 161(7):805-9.
Straus MA. Spanking and the making of a violent society. Pediatrics. 1996; 98:837-842.
Straus, M., Beating the Devil out of Them: Corporal Punishment in American Families and Its Effects on Children. Transaction Publishers: New Brusnwick, New Jersey, 2001.
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By: Rae on July 11, 2010
at 6:00 AM
Oops!
I forgot to mention, I like the You Tube rendition by Platnev. But the one by Lang Lang is interesting too.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 11, 2010
at 2:08 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, jsri and Azgrandma on 7/10 at 7:46PM,
jsri, thread? What thread?? There’s a thread??? Since when have we had a continuous thread here between M&H’s posts?????
Only one quick expression of my opinion on corporal punishment. I feel that spankings are the result of parental anger, frustration and fear; not an attempt to instill discipline or change behavior. There may be a very few occasions in which the child is in extreme physical danger where it might remotely be somewhat appropriate. But those situations would be quite rare. Verbal and emotional abuse can be equally damaging. Further factored into the mix should be age of the child, the interaction between the parent(s), siblings and peer groups. This is certainly no either or question with easy answers.
Azgrandma, I would love to hoist a glass of White Zin and have some pie with you anytime and talk about Kauai. Time and circumstances permitting, as long as I have ten fingers and a scroll button, I will be here with tales of Kauai as well as other things.
We seriously considered retiring to Sedona. Our youngest son went to ASU, so for two years in a row, we delivered him there in person. He and I drove out and had some quality mom/son time and saw the country. Dad flew in from business in LA and we drove back together on vacation.
I cried all the way to Yellowstone about leaving my baby all alone and friendless in Phoenix, so we contacted him to see whether we should come back and take him home. He was having a ball and wanted to move into a fraternity house. So after my husband and I ‘did’ Yellowstone, I wept all the way home to Philly because my baby was all grown up and didn’t need me anymore.
We did a repeat the next year taking different routes. For his 3rd and 4th years he transferred to an Eastern school. (‘Cherchez la femme!’) Sedona didn’t pan out for dad and mom. Later we went on vacation to Hawaii, ‘did’ all the islands and fell in love with Kauai (and each other all over again). For a while it was a toss up between Maui and Kauai, but Kauai won out.
Many of the Old Time Regulars here at M&H already know parts of the saga of our move out here so I won’t repeat it; other than to say it took us three years, lots of fancy footwork and plenty of luck to pull it off. It was some adventure.
jsri, are the dogwood trees finished blooming yet? And do you have plenty of azaleas and rhodos now? We enjoyed living in Philly except for the cold/heat and humidity as you described today. In summer we had to go from A/C house to A/C car to A/C errands and back. It was very nice in spring and fall though – both days. We left some dear friends there and are still in contact with many of them.
I felt I had to get my husband out of there in winter because, after three heart attacks, he persisted in shoveling the damn snow! Sheesh! But once we got out here, and had a lovely 3-acre property in Paradise, he snuck off to Sears and came back with a chainsaw to whack stuff down in the ravine. Jasus!
I had a busy afternoon working with a piano student on Rachmaninov’s (Rachmaninoff’s) “Eighteenth Variation from a Rhapsodie (Rhapsody) on a Theme of Paganini”. It is a lovely piece and you can listen to it on You Tube if you are interested. For now, the theme is still buzzing around in my head (ear worm) so I think I’ll toddle off to bed and sleep it off.
Nighty-night,
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 11, 2010
at 1:53 AM
That’s okay, no one’s puppet. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. What was successful in my circumstance may not suit another. Bottom line – we are each responsible for the outcome of our offspring. A solid and defined foundation is more apt to promote stability. “Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.” Yes that is biblical, reject it for that if you prefer, but it is also truth. I have seen the result.
Seriously though, if you truly want to examine some genuine abuses that we allow today and that do MUCH MORE to damage ourselves and our youth, there are plenty from which to choose.
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By: poolman on July 10, 2010
at 10:52 PM
Hitting and spanking are two different things. A swat across the buttocks of a child with a wooden spoon or paddle makes quite a profound impression. After that, the memory and threat are real. It doesn’t need to be administered often, or sometimes only that once is enough to be effective. It has nothing to do with abuse.
Children suffer more abuse by being set in from of a TV to babysit them – or getting away with whatever they want, whenever they want. When, later in life they finally find out there are boundries, the consequences are much greater.
I was responsible for raising my kids and now helping with my grandkids. My two daughters are in their late 20’s and have been as close to perfect as I could ever expect. We have a very close relationship and enjoy spending time together. They are both very stable people with respectable jobs and husbands.
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By: poolman on July 10, 2010
at 9:56 PM
Hitting a child is abuse!
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By: no one's puppet on July 10, 2010
at 9:37 PM
no one’s puppet, you NEVER discipline in anger, otherwise you are just reacting, and THAT leads to abuse. Child abuse is not limited to physical actions. What do think the purpose for discipline is? You need to establish boundries for kids. They are looking for them. Most kids will push to see how far they can go. It is up to the adults to define those boundries. If they have no boundries, they have no base to begin to build from – right and wrong choices are blurred and authority is not respected.
We are a society of extremes. In my day, most parents spanked their kids, and almost out of habit. Today most parents do not and prefer to reason or bribe kids to obey. From one extreme to the other. It is hard to find moderation in life. We run the extremes to our own detriment.
The primary point in my last several posts is that every situation requires a unique approach. We are lazy and want a formula or method – doesn’t always work.
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By: poolman on July 10, 2010
at 9:31 PM
Why else would you hit a child except in anger poolman and don’t pull out the Bible for an explanation, I’m not a part of a herding society (that is the group the Bible was written for after all)? Sophia, I’m quickly becoming one of those burnouts, I just don’t see any reason to hang out with ignoramuses.
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By: no one's puppet on July 10, 2010
at 8:57 PM
Hello HRH sofia EQ. What I was trying to say was I think that spanking does have a place in disciplining our children. We should however, NEVER discipline out of anger. We should always be in control of ourselves when we dole out punishment. I know, not usually easy. And natural curiousity should not be stifled, merely guided. That is what the shepherd’s rod was for, not for beating.
I have witnessed emotional and psychological abuses by those who oppose spanking children. Most verbal assaults are less effective and have a greater longterm damaging impact. There is a time to use reason and a time to exhibit authority. Each situation as well as the individual needs to be considered to make the best choice. We are responsible to guide and provide the best example we can to our offspring, and that means good character traits, including self-discipline.
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By: poolman on July 10, 2010
at 8:18 PM
( ah jeez… shoulda washed my glasses before reading for spelling errors!)
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By: alaskapi on July 10, 2010
at 8:09 PM
Helen and Margaret-
Missing you! Hope all is well with you!
Happy Birthday Grandma Katie! I don’t stop by here as often anymore but always look for you when I do…
delurkergirl-
Am so glad you and your kids are living what we all hope for for our kids and their education! There are plenty of failure stories but also plenty of success stories.
Poolman-
I would insist that the tension between humans and their institutions is an ongoing process as well. The interplay between idea and method and how it shakes out for the individual and the community is a neverending process. When we get stuck and somehow people start serving the institution far more than the opposite we have need of reflection and measured steps to re-order the institution.
Pfessor-
Some of the Tea Party set of ideas find plenty of resonance with Americans outside the so-called party . Unlike many here , perhaps because I come from a huge family which includes some Tea Partiers along with quite a number of hippie-commie-liberal-wierdos like me, with a nice dollop of old fashioned pre-neocon conservatives, I do not dismiss the TP folks’ feelings and concerns out of hand.
I think Mr Bageant’s
Deer Hunting With JesusDispatches from America’s Class War
gets hold of the reality of far too many Americans’ experience today :
“… Winchester, like countless American small towns, was fast becoming the bedrock of a permanent underclass — a white ghetto of the working poor in which two in five people do not finish high school, nearly everyone over fifty has serious health problems and little or no health care, and credit ratings are virtually nonexistent.
What it adds up to, Bageant argues, is an unacknowledged, American class war from which alcohol, overeating, and Jesus are the preferred avenues of escape.
http://www.scribepublications.com.au/book/deerhuntingwithjesus
and that blithely ignoring these neighbors or focussing on mis-spelled posters at rallies is a dis-service to us all. That far too many of these folks fell for the Rovian garbage which has had them voting against their own best interests for a very long time is a tragedy but it IS understanable.
All that being said, I also think my cousins, etc who are part of this movement are stuck in Chapter 5 ( complaining without real plans to fix or solve anything ) and while I respect their rightful anger at a system which has steadily eroded their place in society I am in disagreement with the childish “throw all the incumbents out” crap -amongst other things.
—————–
Having a bit of a go with the idea that dropping ritualized paddling of children was the end of education in this country…
Or that demanding unquestioning respect for authority will solve all our educational ills…
My father was a teacher and later a school superintendent for as many years as your neighbor. He would disagree with your neighbor.
As would my mother, a highly successful teacher herself.
The problems in education are many and far too many of them are ignored while folks look for one-size-fits-all answers.
Dad saw school district consolidation after the boomers were through school and attendance falling as a major problem as he felt the model expanded administration and distance from the kids themselves instead of the proposed goal of the opposite…
The 3Rs movement during Reagan years dumbed down education…
The interplay between local school districts, their state govts, and the fed has undergone many shifts in the last 60 years- each proposing to have all the answers …
Rural schools across America have suffered with half baked responses from educational authorities trying to deal declining enrollments…
Parents alternately are cast as the problem amd the answer to all things…
Teaching appeals to a broad spectrum of folks as a career, some of whom are more interested in everything about it except the kids…
There is a lot going on and a lot of work to do… and it won’t be solved by coming up with some golden-age-of-education meme..
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By: alaskapi on July 10, 2010
at 8:05 PM
This was in my local paper today–
PANAMA CITY BEACH — Michelle Obama’s visit to Bay County on Monday will be the first for a sitting first lady.
The first lady is scheduled to fly into the county Monday afternoon and later will appear at a Panama City Beach resort. While in Bay County, the first lady will participate in a briefing and informal discussion with area business and community leaders. White House officials indicated the purpose of her visit is to listen to concerns and ideas about the Deepwater Horizon oil spill and its economic effect on the region.
“Democrat or Republican, we need to make sure we give the first lady the respect and courtesy that the people of Panama City know how to give,” said Allan Bense, a Republican and Panama City resident who has served as speaker of the Florida House of Representatives
That speaks volumns about this area–
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By: Daily Reader on July 10, 2010
at 7:54 PM
Many Blessed returns grandma Katie! Hope this one was the Best Yet!
I had meant this to post right after my other one a couple days ago, but have been busy with grandsons and their friend for the past two days. Now I’m just kinda getting my second wind today!
Auntie Jean!! Oh how I love to read of your trips to so many exotic places! If I were able to get back to the Islands it would be lovely to raise a glass and have some pie with you!
Awhile back, (in the ’90’s…ha!) my boy toy and I found ourselves on your Island of Kaua’i as the results of a sales competition. That was in December of ’96. I remember it as being the MOST awesome trip I’d EVER been on! I was a Navy brat…..but whenever My Dad was shipped out overseas, he stuck my Mom and I on good ol’ Greyhound no matter where we were in the U.S. and shipped us back to Colorado City TX to stay with my Mom’s parents. Consequently, we never experienced any overseas duty my Dad had so I never ‘saw’ anything that might be considered exotic. They divorced when I was 8 and Mom and I and my new baby brother were put on the bus one more time and ended up back in C-City, as it was referred to……that’s a whole ‘nother can o’ worms. Not going there….
Anyway, I get to go to the Islands and I’m pretty much beside myself!! Well first thing I discovered was I’m not cut out for a flight of that length! The AA flight we took was the longest flight I’d ever been on in my entire life, not to mention the BIGGEST plane I’d been on. Halfway through the flight I started to have what I guess is a panic attack…..I don’t know…never had one of these before!!!!! Ha! Bloody Mary’s DEFINITELY didn’t help!!
We land in Honolulu and deplane to catch the Island jumper to get us up the chain to your lovely Island, Auntie Jean. Well, we are with a HUGE group of folks from other companies who’ve won this sales trip also. They are all jumping for joy as most of them have been to the Islands MANY times before. Me?!….it was all my poor Hubby could do to scrape his poor freaking wife together and convince me to get on the plane, as none of us could get to our destination til I was in my seat. I was all, “Ya’ll just go. I’ll be fine here. Sure, there’s places for me to walk and I’ll just stay here at the airport. I can eat at one of these kiosks…..” I’m happy to say we ALL finally made it to the resort the group was booked into. I don’t remember the name of it but it was down on Poipu Beach amongst all the condo’s, and timeshares and resorts. Somewhere in my photo boxes I’ve got a great pic of my boy toy at Spouting horn! We were about a mile and a half from there.
That 5 days/4 nights was a true wonder to me! And yeah, I grew up seeing photos and movies filmed in the Islands…but it was nothing, compared to actually seeing with my own eyes, such otherworldly beauty!! It still causes me to pause and re-experience the feelings of utter awe and quietness within my own spirit, because of what my eye saw!
We rode horses, we hiked, we drove all the way up to Ke’e Beach, we drove all the way out to Barking Sands, we went up to Kokee State Park and admired the Na Pali Wilderness area from above! On the trails not from the air! (Scared @#$!@#%$ as another individual was at the wheel other than my beloved Hubby! Thought we were gonna DIE!) Couldn’t afford the helicopter or fixed wing tours. It was just a magical time for me!
Trip home to Phoenix was much easier coming back…Knew what to expect this time!
We got to head out to the Islands one other time on another sales trip. That was in December ’98 when these trips are all planned. Maui was the destination that year and we had a ball! But it is fodder for another post some other time!
Hope everyone has a wonderful Saturday evening with the one’s they love!
God bless! 😉
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By: azgrandma on July 10, 2010
at 7:46 PM
Thanks, HRH Sofia EQ. I’ll try not to give up, but honestly I can understand why Helen and Margaret have lost interest in the blog.
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By: delurkergurl on July 10, 2010
at 6:59 PM
I don’t really understand money. This cartoon (longish but everyone I sent it to says it’s worth the time) helped me understand the financial mess we’re in.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on July 10, 2010
at 6:50 PM
jsri, Jean, Lori, Greytdog, Grandma Katie, and the others who don’t show up as much anymore.
I think of us as a little pie eating, music playing, porch sitting society. A little microcosm of an almost perfect world. I’ve enjoyed reading what you have to say for the past couple of years. I often quote something I read here in my everyday life. I say, “I read this on my old lady blog.” Some of the people who have shown up lately or came back after going away miffed, remind me of “T baggers” in the general society. They are loud and have a lot of complaints. They don’t seem to have any answers. They just are mad as hell and won’t take it any more. They don’t like taxes but won’t admit that they pay less that they used to. They also don’t want companies to pay taxes. I guess they think services just come down like manna from heaven or that it’s ok for them to get benefits, just not the other guy. If we ignore them, they will quietly take over our world (they say “I want my country back”)
Please do not give up. I value you and your ideas. Please check back now and again, and when Margaret or Helen post again, or just if you’re in the mood, please say hello. Maybe the irritants will get tired and go back to wherever they came from, and things will get better (read “interesting, not boring”) again.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on July 10, 2010
at 6:43 PM
HRH, if you read the new testament your view of Christianity would be a little different from what you described. Just sayin’! 🙂
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By: delurkergurl on July 10, 2010
at 6:36 PM
Rae, I totally agree with you, our downfall began with the “idiot box”
Perfesser, I can give you data of a very direct sort. My father believed in using his razor strap (the gold stamp on it said it was ‘pure horsehide’) to discipline my sister and I. It was not effective, we just thought of ways to avoid him AND the chores we were supposed to do. Beating children or wives is JUST NOT THE ANSWER. And if you think “paddling” a child is not beating the child, you are very, very wrong. I know it’s easy to frighten smaller people with brute force, but come on, how much bigger are you? (when the neighbor child 5yrs said, “eek, I’m scared of that garden snake” I said “hey, look how small his mouth is, he can’t hurt you” and he stopped and studied the snake and is no longer afraid of them)
I believe children have an ALMOST unstoppable curiosity about the world. They want very much to learn. When they’re told things like “the curriculum allows us to deal only with numbers 1-10 in kindergarten, you have to wait for first grade to go past 10″ when they can already count to 100, they loose interest. This happened to my son. We took him out of the public school system and enrolled him in a private, alternative kind of school. It was far from perfect but my theory was that even in that imperfect system, he would learn what he needed to learn as long as he wasn’t ‘stifled’ (remember Archie Bunker…”Stifle yourself, Edith?”) We couldn’t really afford it but cleaned the school every weekend to pay some of the tuition. It was the right choice, he often tells people of the ‘sacrifice’ we made and how much it meant to him. He finished college after the 6 year plan, flunked out of the first school, attended a junior college to get his grades back up, went back to the first school and graduated. Now he makes buckets of money and established a scholarship at his old high school to help other students interested in math and science.
I don’t know what the answer is, it’s not easy to give answers to 30 children with 30 different questions. They want to know NOW. or they get bored. It takes a lot of energy to teach. People who are looking for a well paying job with the summer off are not the people you want teaching the children. (but then, people looking for a well paying job with regular hours doing medical tests are also not the people you want making decisions about your health)
Poolman, at 2:47 PM ..you just said the same thing that I said but I read it after.
And then a moment later you lost me. You seem to be saying that self discipline can only come from being punished by spanking. When that above mentioned son was about a year old, I couldn’t get him to leave the kitty litter alone. We lived in an apartment in the city, he couldn’t go outside to play in the sand. One day, I tried paddling him every time he got into it. Each time, he got a little more stubborn. That’s when I realized that spanking meant nothing to him and kitty litter meant everything. I gave up the corporal punishment and put up a fence around the box. By the time he was old enough to figure out the way through the fence, he had lost interest in the litter.
And besides, you refuted your own argument when you said “I don’t think there were proper boundries established.”
One thing I don’t like about Christianity is that it’s based on “be good or you will be punished and go to hell.” Of course, that’s an oversimplification. and I don’t want to mess with anyone’s religion. I personally prefer “be good because it’s the right thing to do”
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By: HRH sofia EQ on July 10, 2010
at 6:19 PM
Today I feel compelled to share that I have good and responsible children who were probably spanked once each and with great regret because frankly it occurred in moments of great anger. Other consequences worked better. The kids dress nicely. Their grades are good – could be better but could be a huckuva lot worse. Their waist bands are at their hips, and they wear belts if needed. They rarely notice things they can help with around the house but if asked, they will help with minimal moaning. They help other people cheerfully and enjoy volunteering. They have the “me” centric view of youth sometimes, but are compassionate. Their friends are similar. We’ve had pretty good teachers most of the time. It’s hard for me to feel that civilization is declining in our country when I see the great things the youth do and have the potential to do. There are problem kids, of course, but they’re the ‘noisy minority’, not the majority. My kids go to church and youth group.
I’m proud of them.
I see that there are a lot of trouble kids and bad attitudes because that’s what the news shows me, but frankly I see more good than bad.
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By: delurkergurl on July 10, 2010
at 5:56 PM
This also applies to corporal punishment. I grew up with a dad that busted my butt on a regular basis. The schools I attended, for the most part, used paddles to discipline bad behavior. I have experienced some abuse from both sources.
I also know plenty that have grown up without it. There are mixed results, but most I have met that haven’t ever been spanked, have a much harder time with self-disciple. I don’t think there were proper boundries established. They seem to have a harder time coping with setbacks. It is mostly with males. I have met some females that were never spanked and yet were very well-mannered.
Once again, I think it is a matter of tailoring to an individual. We still resort to spanking my grandkids when they deserve it. It doesn’t happen very often, but the threat is real and usually enough to curtail the bad behavior.
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By: poolman on July 10, 2010
at 3:09 PM
Hi Jean:
Been off for a few days and it is hell trying to pick up a sensible thread here. In the past few days this site has gone through more changes than a runway model, and not necessarily for the better. It’s been almost two months since H&M’s last post and I think the natives are getting restless. And I see that our educational system is taking a beating again so I might have something to say about that when I get a few minutes but I feel that some of the harshest critics need to take a look in the mirror if they are truly seeking solutions to its problems.
This past week has been a scorcher, temps in the triple digits. It’s been like having Phoenix temperatures and New Orleans humidity. During the worst of it I had to do a 380mile errand, usually a seven hour round trip but, with the combination of heat, traffic and construction, plus torrential downpours along the way, it turned into a 12.5 hour trip. We were scheduled to go to Martha’s Vineyard the following day but had to put it on hold until the Fall.
Glad to see you are still posting, Here, you are often the only isle of calm in an otherwise tempestuous sea.
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By: jsri on July 10, 2010
at 2:48 PM
Generally speaking, problems arise from institutions in the way they administer to groups rather than individuals. Citing mostly economic and practical reasons, rigorous research and testing is sometimes performed to establish parameters that reflect accepted normalcy. We learn to group and categorize similar features and lump together people to simplify and easier control the method of transferring rule – or knowledge – or care – or information – or ideology – whatever the task on the societal agenda.
This goes against the natural way of life. On Earth everything is unique and reacts to natural stimuli somewhat differently than others of its species. This also repeats in the inanimate, each snowflake crystal, every rock. Individuals function best when all things are in tune with them. A most glorious symphony! We could truly blossom. All cylinders firing with full compression. All senses fully functioning. We are awed by nature, yet continually oppose its natural flow.
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By: poolman on July 10, 2010
at 2:47 PM
Jean said:
“I definitely concur with you about corporal punishment as a means of discipline. What it does teach children is that they are powerless and can be controlled by violence and thus, later in life they will have the power and can control others by means of violence. So the cycle is repeated over again.”
Nice theory, isn’t it? Of course, violence perpetrated by those brought up in the current system is considerably more than that in the generation before, so I’d feel a lot better if you could cite some data that shows what you say is true. As Ross Perot said, “I’m all ears.”
Another theory might be that it caused students of that era to take their work seriously and provided that little bit of extra anxiety which makes us more respectful of authority, thus REDUCING violence.
The school superintendent in my district told me that he could trace the rapid decline in his district to the day the took the paddles out of the school. “You only need it for one out of a hundred, but the other ninety-nine know it’s there.” Of course, he is only one man – (with forty years’ experience, involving tens of thousands of students, with whom he dealt eight hours every day. What could he possibly know?)
“Nurturing love and patience work oh so much better.”
Hasn’t so far, but hey – tomorrow’s another day. Could happen. Just could happen.
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By: PFesser53 on July 10, 2010
at 2:13 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Rae on July 10, 2010 at 7:28PM
Rae, I’m glad you joined the gang.
I definitely concur with you about corporal punishment as a means of discipline. What it does teach children is that they are powerless and can be controlled by violence and thus, later in life they will have the power and can control others by means of violence. So the cycle is repeated over again. Nurturing love and patience work oh so much better.
But the Old Guard who were raised by the ‘Spare the Rod Mentality’ are not likely to buy into such a ‘sissy’ concept.
I think you’re gonna love the sandals, but doing the toenails is a big chore. I have to psyche myself up for several days to do it! How I would love to invest just once sometime in a professional pedicure! Wouldn’t that be the height of decadent luxury?
Once long ago in the summertime we drove from Quebec across Southern Canada and dropped back into the states at Saute Saint Marie. We moseyed around and ‘did’ Michigan! So green and peaceful. All the people we met were friendly and helpful, especially when we got lost – which we did – a lot! Fond memories.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 10, 2010
at 12:59 PM
Stupid=working against your own self interest=tea baggers.
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By: no one's puppet on July 10, 2010
at 12:28 PM
Thanks, Poolman. Every day can use a little Carlin.
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By: Rae on July 10, 2010
at 12:07 PM
This is from 18 years ago and is apropos today. A little crude, but fun. “We like war. We like bombing brown people.”
😉
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By: poolman on July 10, 2010
at 11:30 AM
PFesser — I agree that the education system is a mess. But I don’t think “spare the rod” is the cause. The best teachers I had in school and the best teachers my children had maintained order through discipline (df: training that corrects, molds, or enforces the mental faculties or moral character), not punishment (df: suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution). There is no evidence to support the use of physical punishment as an effective way to mold the behavior of children, and there’s plenty of evidence to indicate that it has a harmful effect.
It’s difficult to tell cause from effect here, of course. Our cultural values have certainly changed. Our education system’s failures are beyond dispute. So how did all of this happen? I vote for television as a significant contributor.
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By: Rae on July 10, 2010
at 10:55 AM
Good morning everyone! Happy Saturday. Some wisdom from the late great George Carlin. Plastic – the reason we are here?
I have always enjoyed his stuff, but it should be noted the language is a bit crude. Not that that is uncommon today, but some might be offended.
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By: poolman on July 10, 2010
at 10:55 AM
“Historically, conservative thinking has been about the traditional or status quo, even in many cases, regressive thinking.”
It’s also known as “Better the devil you know”. IMHO, it’s fear-based thinking. Even if you see a train wreck coming, for Heaven’s sakes, don’t leave the path you’re on. You just don’t know what might be off-road.
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By: judith on July 10, 2010
at 10:30 AM
Thanks to those of you who sent birthday wishes!
I currently reside in a Board and Care REsidence
where I have the privilege of having my computer in m y room. Many thanks to M&H and all of you forkeeping my mind busy and thinking and also entertaining me.
I have been coming to this site since before the last election. Thanls for putting up with my typing. It has improved at least I hope so.
Jean – isn’t it wonderful to see the grandkids being productive! I think the idea of spending a year in another country is great.
Oldest grandson spent his term in Senegal. It was a wonderful experience for him. His brother hopefully is going to Shanghai.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 10, 2010
at 10:29 AM
Jean –
“The pen is mightier than the sword,” huh? Kind of reminds me of “Fighting never settled anything.”
Try telling those things to a Southerner.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 10, 2010
at 8:00 AM
Rae –
“Have you ever read letters from civil war soldiers? Farmers, with elementary school educations. Beautifully written … I don’t think “class” is the only thing at play here.”
I couldn’t agree more. Taxes are part of the Tea Party’s problem, but not all.
As the youngest son of the youngest son, my aunts and uncles were all very old when I was born. These people were born and raised in the deepest, darkest, farthest-back “hollers” in West Virginia in the late 1800’s, yet armed with a 6th grade education, they sent their boys to medical, dental, engineering school. How’d they do that?
Funny you should ask. There is an audiotape extant of my Aunt Mary (born ~ 1880), not too long before she died. Her diction is perfect, right down to pronouncing the “t” in “perfect.” Her grammar is perfect. Her spelling was perfect in every letter she wrote, and the writing looked like it came from a book on penmanship. Her house was filled with books; she taught her husband to read.
How did these “wood-hicks” do these things? simple. They went to no-nonsense grade schools with high standards. They sat down, shut up and learned; and when they strayed, the ever-present switch put them back on track.
Our school system has no different raw materials today than it had back then, except today’s students are far more experienced and worldly. The reason some of the “baggers” can’t spell is not because they are stupid; it’s because the school system is rotten to the proverbial core, and to quote Donna, Everybody Knows It. Pursued by a cadre of contingency-fee driven lawyers, afraid to enforce any discipline, afraid to enforce standards, just afraid in general, crippled by an ever-increasing burden of regulations, the system has devolved to the lowest common denominator – it basically does as little as possible and attracts the academically bottom-of-the-barrel students to be “education” majors. Having been on a local school board for several years, believe me; I know how it works.
One may denigrate and laugh at the Tea Party, but do so at your own risk. Sometimes they are not very well-organized, but they are motivated and, like many of the rest of us, don’t feel Washington in any way reflects the will of the People. Maybe I’m wrong, but I believe they are a force to be reckoned with.
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By: PFesser53 on July 10, 2010
at 7:42 AM
Jean,
I so appreciate your posts. Haven’t responded much, because I find myself agreeing with everything you say. Mel Gibson — I will never again watch a Mel Gibson movie. He’s the lowest of the low. Probably not, but I guess I can hope it doesn’t get any worse than that.
I have resisted the bejeweled sandals thing, pretending to be young and hip, I guess, but I’m not fooling anyone on that anymore, so maybe I’ll pitch the stilettos (admittedly unworn for some time, but hanging on, just in case) this afternoon and invest in a pair of said sandals to take people’s minds off the rest of aging me. Guess I’ll have to paint the toenails, too. At least I can still reach them.
It is beautiful today up here. Lake Michigan is gorgeous, sky is blue, temperature low-to-mid 70s. Heaven.
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By: Rae on July 10, 2010
at 7:28 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, Rae and lori,
Rae, yeah, unfortunately, we have run into plenty of ‘Ugly Americans’ in our travels. They always embarrased us and we did our best to make up for it. PJ’s? Why didn’t I think of that on overnight flights?
Lori, where ya goin’? Wherever, Bon Voyage! I’m with you on general principal about sneakers. I know they are practical for sports, but I always say, “Today’s joggers are tomorrow’s orthopedic patients.”
I’ve been wearing zoris (rubber slippers, flip-flops) around the house forever. Never have had any foot trouble, a corn or callous in my life. In our travels, I have always worn sandals, albeit elegantly bejeweled. In airports people stared at my feet more than they did my face, which, at my age, is a good thing. I still had to slip out of them and put them in a tray to get through security though.
Can you imagine us wearing the stilettos like we used to in our youth? I would fall on my face and break my damn neck trying to teeter around on them now.
And oh, Rae, if I had been wearing my PJ’s, everybody would have been too busy staring at my feet to notice.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 10, 2010
at 12:38 AM
Craig, honey, it is just not a good idea to blog while drinking.
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By: Rae on July 9, 2010
at 10:29 PM
“Would I dare go up to the lady sitting next to me with unplucked eyebrows and correct her fashion faux pas?????” not unless I wanted to insult her. Sometimes we/I intentionally insult people by “correcting” their mistakes, but you will never catch me insulting people and then try to justify my insult.”
LORI
Why would you want to “insult people” just for the sake of insulting? The above..I’m still trying to figure out the logic. Then again, it may be lost on this poor soul.
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By: Craig on July 9, 2010
at 10:24 PM
Lori,
I beg your pardon, Mamm.
I think your avatar gives your collar away anyway.
Its not blue..It’s Kennedy “blue blood” blue.
My father was a life long democrat and a union man.
Dropped out of school at ninth grade,yet educated himself in a trade that allowed him to send two boys to college.
My fathers collar was always blue.
And I’m proud of my father for his beliefs.
My father taught me though to never hold myself above another man because of race or stature in society.
You are flaunting your stature.
You are known by the company you keep.
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By: Craig on July 9, 2010
at 10:16 PM
I think Margaret died and Helen couldn’t stand the thought of life without her…so she died too.
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By: Javier Gomez on July 9, 2010
at 8:16 PM
Hi Congenial Gang Donna and lori,
This morning I was out on our Dinky Deck watering our potted plants. I could see the ocean, the mountains, the blue sky with white puffy clouds and a gentle trade wind breeze. It was sooooooooo beautiful. This is what God, or Gaia or Mother Nature made. What a lovely way to start the day.
Later, the headline in our local morning paper read, “Kaua’i receives ‘best island’ award.” Our island was voted second behind Galapagos as the “World’s Best Island” by the readers of “Travel & Leisure” magazine. This is the second year in a row that Kaua’i has received such an honor.
My heart just breaks when I see of the images of the Gulf oil spill disaster, the barrier islands and how it is affecting the lives of people in the region. This is a Man-made disaster of monumental proportions with no end in sight. The debate rages on about what to do and how to prevent such in the future. Naturally, it boils down for the most part between conservatives and liberal/progressives.
Historically, conservative thinking has been about the traditional or status quo, even in many cases, regressive thinking. Liberals generally fall into the category of forward and innovative thinkers. I make no apologies for being a liberal/progressive.
I applaud Donna and lori for their intelligence and willingness to challenge injustice, racism and sexism wherever they find it, either blatantly or in not-so subtle nuances. They are not inclined to roll over and say, “Yes, Sir, Master”. They work with their words and efforts, not fighting with muscles and guns. As the old saying goes, “the pen is mightier than the sword.” Or in the case of this blog, the computer keyboard as opposed to battles with armies and nuclear weapons.
And then there are our self-appointed, Old Testament-Style Patriarchs and/or ‘Les Enfants Terribles’.
I cite ergo, Mel Gibson, (“Braveheart”?????) and his charge of domestic abuse and defense thereof, “She f**king deserved it!” or the current ultra-conservative regime of Iran’s sentence to stone a woman to death for adultery. The punishment is not of substance but only a matter of degree.
The origin of the word ‘woman’ is “woe to man”.
Before I am accused of trying to be the Matriarch of this blog, may I remind you that I am here because of the hospitality of Margaret and Helen, the true Matriarchs. They are much older than I, with much more seniority and life experience, since I am just an upstart Old Broad of 80.
I am reminded of the profound poem by Thomas Wolfe, “This Is Man”. He uses the word ‘Man’ in the generic meaning of ‘Mankind’. The entire poem is rather lengthy. If you are interested, you could probably find it on the inter-net or I could put it up here upon request. The word ‘batten’ (with a ‘b’) means to grow fat, to thrive, to be well fed or wealthy at another’s expense. The last four lines are:
“Why, then, should any living man,
Ally himself with death,
And in his greed and blindness,
Batten on his brother’s blood.”
“It could just as easily read:
Why, then, should any living woman,
Ally herself with death,
And in her greed and blindness,
Batten on her sister’s blood.”
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
P. S. The Statue of Liberty is a woman. The blindfolded statue holding the Scales of Justice is a woman.
Refute away, at your will.
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 9, 2010
at 7:57 PM
Most of the people I know in Europe think we’re uncouth because we are ignorant, expect other people to jump when we snap our fingers, and are greedy.
I had a long conversation with a cab driver in Ireland one time. I had asked him a question about the ongoing hostilities between Protestants and Catholics in that country, and he pulled over to give me a history lesson. Then he gave me a history lesson about race relations in the US. He said he was disgusted with Americans, who don’t even know their own history, but feel free to comment on situations in other countries. Pretty funny encounter — a cab driver, no less — but I think it captured pretty well the things Europeans don’t like about ordinary Americans (lots they don’t like about our government and corporations, of course). I don’t think it has much to do with clothing.
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By: Rae on July 9, 2010
at 6:04 PM
Fiona, my dear, you weren’t paying attention. I wore PJs on the plane, not in the airport. And I got the idea from a coworker, who happens to be British. I find folks from the continent to be more practical than we (and of course a lot thinner, which is why they look so much better while spending a fraction of what we spend on clothing).
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By: Rae on July 9, 2010
at 5:52 PM
fiona64, it is because Americans ARE remarkably uncouth. Look at our culture. Our youth run around with the crotch of their trousers around their knees and whatever underware is deemed appropriate for public exposure. They got to hold on to certain parts so as not to lose them. Keeps their hands occupied, I suppose. It sure makes me question our “advanced intellect” as a species.
Or turn on the TV, especially the news. Flip through to the other shows, especially the “reality” shows. Go to a Walmart. Go to the mall. Unless you are in an upscale area, you are going to find many faux pas. I’m sure
There might be a few that want to project an image. There are others with class that dress for the public. But it is becoming very rare in our comfort-driven society. Out here in Arizona, the predominant mood is casual, bordering on slob. One becomes immune to it after time. It does also provide for some amusement. 😀
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By: poolman on July 9, 2010
at 5:32 PM
Rae, there are comfortable clothes for traveling that are *not* pajamas. 😦 Unfortunately, that kind of thing (parading around the airport in pajamas) is why Europeans think that Americans are remarkably uncouth. 😦 If it makes me a snob to think that one should respect the people around you enough to be wearing actual clothes whilst in public, so be it.
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By: fiona64 on July 9, 2010
at 5:02 PM
Personally I’d LOVE to have Lori “Get my back”…..even if I don’t agree with all her politics! Go Lori!!!
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By: azgrandma on July 9, 2010
at 3:59 PM
By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 8:11 AM
“…but you will never catch me insulting people and then try to justify my insult.”
By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 9:22 AM
“BAGGERS”
By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 11:15 AM
“Sorry Delurker but its about damn time someone uses inflammatory words on those idiots!”
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By: Fluxux on July 9, 2010
at 1:46 PM
rae… sooo you’re not lazy, unkept, uncivilized or ignorant, just because you don’t know enough to wear proper mother land clothing in a public place? All this time I have thought people who dress improperly were stupid….
hmmmm go figure.. ? Well you have taught me something today.. thanks…
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 1:27 PM
Well, Lori … My feeling about airports and planes is that you should wear whatever the heck you want. I did a red-eye trans-Atlantic one time in my PJs. Screw it. It’s miserable enough being stuck without moving for that many hours. I’m not letting uncomfortable clothes add to my pain. Didn’t wear the company logo, of course.
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By: Rae on July 9, 2010
at 12:31 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Grandma Katie,
Happy Birthday!!!! 81 huh. Well, I’m gainin’ on ya! Gimme a couple more months and I’ll catch up to ya.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 9, 2010
at 12:31 PM
While there may indeed be more looney Deomcrats and Republicans than Tea Partiers by number, but it’s the ratio/density and not the volume that is significant.
There are many millions of D’s & R’s across many decades. The Tea Partiers are a brand new group with comparitively smaller numbers. Of course there will be a higher quantity of anything in larger groups, but that’s a false statistical signal. If something occurs 100 times in 10,000 cases, it’s less statistically significant than something that happens 9 times out of 10, even though 100 is much greater than 9.
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By: delurkergurl on July 9, 2010
at 12:18 PM
I wholeheartedly concur with Poolman’s assessment that it’s time we moved beyond the two-party system, which is relatively modern.
However, the Tea Party (which is just the John Birch Society end of the Republicans) is NOT the answer.
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By: fiona64 on July 9, 2010
at 12:02 PM
James wrote: I agree about Rand Paul, but he is only one man. The list of Republicans and Democrats would fill pages.
Rand Paul is the most embarrassing person in politics at this point, hands-down. He trumps anyone else you could name, including obvious nut cases like Michelle Bachmann and Sharron Angle. He’s so much “more Libertarian than thou” that he verges on being a stereotype.
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By: fiona64 on July 9, 2010
at 12:01 PM
Lori, since you are so involved and entrenched in the democratic party, your view is skewed. You have so much of your life and energies devoted to one political party, that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for you to see democrats or republicans objectively. It is obvious you have a great compassion for politics. I enjoy the company of people that are full of compassion, whether I agree with them or not. Beats apathy anyday!
Honestly though, the two party system we have has helped destroy our country. It hasn’t made a difference whether we elect dems or reps. I had hope that this time with dem control we would see good progress away from the downward spiral we are on, but if anything, they have helped contribute to that trend. Overpaid salesmen. That is my take on today’s politicians. Good salesmen can sell the product, no matter whose logo is on their shirt.
We don’t NEED politicians. We need problem solvers. We don’t need fancy words or ornate presentations. We need solutions. We need cooperation, not condemnation. The money spent on PR, campaigns, and the continual spin, is not improving our nation or our world. It is all for a great diversion. The grand illusion. It is all a costly game. And we, as a race, are the losers.
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By: poolman on July 9, 2010
at 11:40 AM
Sorry Delurker but its about damn time someone uses inflammatory words on those idiots! It is UNACCEPTABLE.. and with all due respect .. keep the pie …
it’s time I said NO mas!!!!!!! I will NOT tolerate that organization and just “pretend” they are OK.. just a few misguided individuals! They are NOT!
ok and lucky for many…… my flight has been called…. finallllllyyy!!!!! and to my credit I didn’t yell at the lady with the too small top and roll up wrinkled capris that was seated next to me.. 😉 xxoxoxoxo
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 11:15 AM
Lori, I’m not supporting the Tea Party. I have agreed with some of their points, but I don’t think they are a cohesive group. Their ranks have been infiltrated by spies like any other group of influence. I know that they are primarily corporate sponsored. I don’t think there are many groups operating without corporate influence or sponsorship. Those that don’t have it are generally actively seeking it. Even the famous “Morans” sign used in so many left wing sites to show the ignorance of the right has been deemed a fake. The overall plan is to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. I’d say it has been extremely successful.
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By: poolman on July 9, 2010
at 10:54 AM
Pie. Iced tea. Have some! The insufferable domination and intentionally inflammatory remarks here get really, really old but can only wreck our experience here if we let it.
We get more of what we focus on. Seek the positive! Life is short. Savor your pie! On tough days, have a little extra!
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By: delurkergurl on July 9, 2010
at 10:47 AM
Shining example of denouncing racism there, lori.
“You can’t rewrite the history with me james.” -Lori
You seem to have forgotten, lori, YES YOU CAN.
Matt
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By: Fluxux on July 9, 2010
at 10:46 AM
ha ha … fluxux shall we compare resumes? I’ve ran and won 7 campaigns.. 3 state wide .. was a paid worker on 50 .. 48 were victorious.. and well we won’t go into volunteered hours…. held office for 20 + years in the party.. There are LOTS of things I don’t know and many more I don’t do well.. but I do know democrats, plus a make a hellof a lasagna and a good margarita! …..you?
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 10:42 AM
While you are at it Fluxux.. look up the Nixon southern strategy. But I warn you before you enter into this you have picked the wrong girl to talk democratic history . You can’t rewrite the history with me james.
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 10:37 AM
I have. Have you?
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By: Fluxux on July 9, 2010
at 10:34 AM
look up the history of the democratic party fluxux then we will talk.
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 10:30 AM
happy natal return Grandma Katie.. you little cancer you! oxoxoo your soft heart, love of family, kind eyes, gentle touch, are evident in each word you speak…
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 10:29 AM
Lori –
Show me where the Democratic party even acknowledged their racist roots and I’ll show you another EQUALLY hypocritical group of people that run their campaigns on “family values.”
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By: Fluxux on July 9, 2010
at 10:28 AM
Happy birthday, Grandma Katie! Best wishes for happiness and good health in your 82nd year!
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By: delurkergurl on July 9, 2010
at 10:22 AM
Fluxux.. well if you missed the denouncing of those people you need to google.. because not only were they denounced … there was a whole era… campaign…..presidency ………run and WON on just that very thing… denouncing racism… Start with looking up the democratic party’s history!
Poolman ok… let’s go with “infiltration straw man”…. OK… THEN denounce the candidates throw them under the busssss DON”T spend millions of dollars on their campaign!
Sorry that doesn’t cut it poolman look up the stats of who the baggers support and where their money is going.
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 10:20 AM
(((((Grandma Katie))))) Happy Birthday – belated. 😀 I hope you have a most blessed week!
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By: poolman on July 9, 2010
at 10:19 AM
Those misspellt signs at Tea Party events could be infiltrators trying to discredit the entire group. This is common practice that we all contribute to with our taxes. Espionage 101. I sometimes wonder who may be on the porch with that same motive. I know a few that came here that I’ve suspected to be on the payroll. I have definitely experienced those plants on some other sites.
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By: poolman on July 9, 2010
at 10:14 AM
Auntie Jean – Believer it or not, I am still working at doing research on the British. HUave goten bogged down on the attitudes, class divisions and
how the poor were treated , and also women. I am afraid I wouldn’t have survived long putting up with that!
Since I was without my computer for so long, I did a lot of reading. Author Anne Perry gives very graphic descriptions of life in Victorian times.
Just had my 81st th is week. If I remember correctly you have one coming up soon. Enjoy your visit with son and family. I alson have a grandson who loves being in one of these pe.rforming choirs.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 9, 2010
at 10:13 AM
I missed the post where you denounced Senator Byrd, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Dick Gephartd, Andrew Cuomo, Mary Frances Barry, George Wallace, and Al Gore’s father. Along with Harry Reid, Joe Biden, Reverend Wright, the KKK, the Black Panthers, and the anonymous tea partier who hung the monkey.
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By: Fluxux on July 9, 2010
at 10:12 AM
That’s right Rae… No tolerance.
And don’t blow sunshine up my hiney and tell me it is just a few crazy Aunt Virginia’s who drink too much that have infiltrated an otherwise good organization. I call BULL SHIT on that … If it is crazy Aunt Virginia then DENOUNCE her and put her in a closet.. Don’t send millions of dollars her way and make her a poster girl! Denounce the racist remarks and “jokes” and “misspelled” signs .. don’t pretend they never existed! Denounce the people who hang monkeys holding Tea bags from their heads! To borrow a phrase .. don’t put lipstick on a pig and tell me that organization is just a bunch of grassroots good ole people whom are fed up with high taxes.. if you believe that you are ignorant.. and NO that isn’t an insult it’s the truth.. if you believe TEA party stands for people who don’t want high taxes YOU haven’t investigated YOUR organization.
You want to be legit? Denounce the racism! and then ….. I will apologize for my insults! Untill then… BAGGERS
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 9:22 AM
Ill make you a deal rae.. you can wear those god awful tennis shoes on a trail if I can say I L U on a blog??? deal?? LOL
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 8:52 AM
Lori, with you on racist organizations. My daughter used to say we’d might as well put a sign up in the living room that said “Racism not tolerated here.” I think no tolerance is the only way to go on this one.
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By: Rae on July 9, 2010
at 8:43 AM
LOL Rae.. at the airport nope you can’t..lol
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 8:39 AM
Oh and before they call my flight…
I will NEVERRRRRRR be tolerant of a racist organization. Soooo try as you might to brow beat me into tolerating racism.. I won’t…
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 8:37 AM
I’m a blue collar gal myself. Dad was a sheet metal mechanic, high school dropout. Mom a housewife, high school grad. I take your point about the whole class aspect of this, am quite aware of it. Regardless of how educated you are, you can’t get the grease out from under your fingernails, and “they” can always spot you …
Of course the “uppers” wouldn’t consider engaging in discussion of anything with the riff-raff on a blog. We “middles” and “lowers” should at least inform ourselves before we blather on IMHO.
Have you ever read letters from civil war soldiers? Farmers, with elementary school educations. Beautifully written … I don’t think “class” is the only thing at play here.
Lori, I didn’t know you couldn’t wear shorts with tennis shoes. I have to hike in long pants? Learn something every day …
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By: Rae on July 9, 2010
at 8:36 AM
Jim, hint…. read all my posts with the understanding I have my tongue firmly planted in my cheek.
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 8:35 AM
lori –
You see, here is a perfect example of how people are different. To my eye, fashion is laughable. Just put your damned clothes on and go DO something; preening is just a waste of time. Obviously, however, you think it is important.
There are people out there – hard to believe, I know – who are having a tough time making it, and Just Can’t Pay Any More Taxes. Taxed Enough Already. Get it? TEA
Maybe you should put on a pair of sneakers and some shorts and go live with these poor spellers for a while and join in as they try to survive on WalMart wages and raise their kids. Walk on the wild side a bit. You never know; it might flush out a little of that intolerance. Anything’s possible, I suppose…
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By: pfesser53 on July 9, 2010
at 8:21 AM
Rae –
Firstly, let me say – point well taken. However, having come from a very blue-collar background, and having maintained close ties with those folks, I would note that many of THOSE people – who for the most part don’t spell very well – don’t have a very high opinion of us academic smartypants, either.
Many consider those who cannot DO things to be worthless, and those whose only trade is words and ideas (writers, lawyers, playwrights, etc.) to have very little purpose in life. While they would just shrug at “your” when “you’re” is appropriate, they consider the inability to fix your own car or your own toilet, or to run a backhoe enough to put a drain in your yard to be laughable, and a perfect example of “pointy-headed academics.” I have a nephew in-law (if there is such a thing) who doesn’t spell well but regularly precision grinds threads to 50 micron tolerance for NASA – at least before the Prez changed their mission to Muslim kissing-up. (god what was that about?)
So yes, I see and acknowledge your point. But there are other points of view as well – just as valid, IMHO. I sometimes think that if everyone were required to mix occasionally with other classes, the disdain for those “not like us” would vanish.
Jim
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By: pfesser53 on July 9, 2010
at 8:13 AM
Ok not out.. but almost…. LOL sitting at the airport waiting for a delayed flight.. grrrrrrrrrr
In one of my former lives I was a run way model. Fashion is one of my passions. It bugs the heck out of me when I see someone making a fashion faux pas.. I am looking at 7 people sitting right next to me I could GO OFF ON.. My skin crawls when I see someone wearing sneakers with shorts and don’t even get me started on un plucked eyebrows! I think people who don’t care about their appearance are lazy and unkept and dontcha know cleanliness is next to Godliness????? and I am thinking although not sure… people who wear their sunglasses on top of their head are just plain stupid everyone knows not to do that right? LOL
Here is the thing .. we all know how to get along and be nice right? We all know when we are being rude.
Would I dare go up to the lady sitting next to me with unplucked eyebrows and correct her fashion faux pas????? mmmmmmmmmm not unless I wanted to insult her. Sometimes we/I intentionally insult people by “correcting” their mistakes, but you will never catch me insulting people and then try to justify my insult.
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 8:11 AM
Oh, heck, while I’m in the mood I’m going to address the difference between “being mean” (we hoity-toity types call this making an ad hominem argument) and calling out a dumb idea.
I will agree not to call a person names. It’s kind of childish anyway. If you don’t have the wits to figure out or articulate what’s wrong with what the person is saying or doing, just call him a name.
However, I am sick and tired of having to pretend that poorly-informed, poorly-conceived, and poorly-communicated ideas have merit and are worthy of our time and attention.
I will listen carefully to your ideas, even if I don’t agree. And I might even change my mind. If you can’t take having your own ideas shot down, you shouldn’t be involved in discourse with grownups.
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By: Rae on July 9, 2010
at 7:43 AM
I am one of those people who is distracted/annoyed by bad grammar and poor spelling. Yes, I realize it’s all convention, and used to enforce our class system. However …
Isn’t it possible that those who have failed to learn the rules of their mother tongue have also failed to learn the other things that a great education is supposed to provide — knowledge of history, rhetoric, logic, politics, philosophy, science, …? And yes, every once in a while a great idea is generated by someone who, by all rights, is too ignorant to have produced it, but that’s rare. Generally, bad grammar accompanies bad ideas.
And second, the reason we have these rules is that it makes it easier to communicate effectively. If you really want someone to understand what you’re saying, then wouldn’t you take the time to package it properly? We don’t wrap birthday presents in used paper towels. You can argue all you want that the wrapping isn’t the point, but we all know it IS part of the point, so why deliberately undermine the gift?
And just to be clear — I am not talking about the occasional typo or mistake. I’m talking about a pattern of poor writing. Lazy writing, lazy thinking; generally the two go together.
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By: Rae on July 9, 2010
at 7:28 AM
Thanks Craig for letting Donna look in the mirror.
So what if some want Obama impeached? Angry leftists wanted Bush impeached or killed. Like the right, the angry left wanted to “take back our country.” Leftists bought the 9/11 conspiracy theory. The right believes Obama doesn’t have a US birth certificate. That’s politics.
The Duke professor’s study showed groups hostile to each other become similar over time. You are like them, Lori and others. Only your “drivel” is different. “Not that there is anything wrong with that.”
Another study showed Tea Party activists to be better informed and educated than average. Many of the ones I know run small businesses and hire people. My cousin, for example, owns her own jiffy store. She and my other cousin write their signs on old card board boxes.
Clarence Page attended a rally to see if Tea Partyers were really as awful as their detractors claimed. He thought they were nice, if misguided people, and his black skin didn’t bother them a bit. They may have misspelled signs, but unlike many liberal astroturf demonstrators, they make their own signs.
Here is one reason why I find names like tea bagger offensive.
I had a good friend in the service. When he wanted to know what whites said about blacks when they were alone, he asked me because I was the only white he trusted to give him a straight answer. It was embarrassing, but I told him.
We had to deliver something to the NCO women’s club during one of their meetings. I knew most of them and liked them, so we visited for a while. My friend left, and one of the women said she really liked my friend. Another stated in effect what Biden said about Obama. My friend was so “clean and articulate.” He was just an all around good guy and he had a good future. Why couldn’t all blacks be like my friend? One actually said “he knows his place.”
If I had told her it was a bigoted comment, she would have been shocked and insulted. She wasn’t predjudiced. I should have said something, but I was a coward that day.
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By: James on July 9, 2010
at 6:48 AM
One of the long list of things that amazes me about these nuts is they seem to forget we ELECTED our President by an overwhelming majority!
Apparently their definition of tyranny changes depending on what party is sitting in the White House!
This is their not so new political strategy.
1. Keep them stupid.
2. Make them afraid veryyyyyy afraid.
3. When all else fails just say whatever comes to your mind and remember to include number one and two!
Ok I’m out for a week.. I’m passing the torch err mop? LOL xoxo
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 6:07 AM
Yikes this is where the loonies are getting the newest “let’s impeach Obama when we take back America” drivel..
This wingnut to the 10th power!
We have to fight like hell friends!!!!!!
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 5:56 AM
re: English teachers and their red pens
Unwritten rules of Internet conduct generally are agreed to contain the following clause: Thou Shalt Not Gouge Thy Fellows for Their Grammar and Spelling, Lest Others Embarrass Thee by Pointing Out Language Errors of Thine Own.
Sometimes the spelling or grammar seen on the Internet makes one grind one’s molars into powder, but I think everyone has had the experience of discovering his own errors serendipitously and wondering, “How the hell long have I been doing that?” A long-time tank aficionado, I spelled “turret” as “turrent” for years. There are others, much worse. I still can’t get the hang of -ant, -ent, -int…
Yes, sometimes Tea Party people have misspelled signs. One reason might be that, while we were all engaged in an intellectual circle-jerk, that fellow was loading his tractor-trailer in the 100-degree sun to bring us our cantaloupes and just didn’t have the time to polish his English. That doesn’t make his opinions less valuable than those of others; in fact, it could be argued that his “real life” experiences might actually trump those of lecturing indoor pedants.
My suggestion is that schoolmarm pretenders chill out a bit and focus a little more on issues.
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By: pfesser53 on July 9, 2010
at 5:46 AM
Thanks, Lori. Back at you.
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By: Donna on July 9, 2010
at 5:29 AM
donna… yellow=light, positive energy, God… all good things.. ❤
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By: lori on July 9, 2010
at 4:46 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
An addendum to my comment last night about the HI Civil Unions bill. Governor Lingle did not wield her mighty veto pen on a Bill of Proclamation to declare an up-coming ‘Pineapple Day’.
Bi-partisanship at its finest.
Most of you know that this time of year, Hawaii is six hours in time zones behind much of the mainland that is on EDT. We are always on PST because we have plenty of sunshine. I am fairly busy during much of the day and usually put up my comments for M&H in the evenings after dinner. I think it is a much more pleasant way to spend time, relaxing and chatting with my M&H friends, than watching summer reruns somewhere on our 70+ cable channels on TV. So you see, I’m not really on the computer after midnight.
We are thrilled!!! One of our sons and his family from CA are coming out to visit later this month. For two whole weeks!!!!! We have been on the phone at length, getting all the arrangements made and making plans. I’ll be doing plenty of cooking favorites and freezing ahead of time so we can just spend the time together. They will still be able to get in plenty of beach time and stuff. But they have to earn their keep by weeding our Pitiful Little Patch.
We had a lengthy three-way phone conversation going on with our son. We do that a lot with all our kids and grandkids since we don’t get to see them that often anymore. At one point I said, “I have to go to the bathroom so talk to dad.” Son laughed and said, “I have that effect on lots of people!”
Proud grandma here! Our 15-year-old grandson has quite a remarkable singing voice. He was a high school freshman this past year. Near the end of the school year he had one of the leading roles in a school production of a popular musical. Apparently, he was quite a sensation! We will get to have our own private performance when they come out. Yippee!!!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 9, 2010
at 1:07 AM
Donna : here’s your sign…
Maybe it’s just me. But I happen to think that someone who says that another is engaging in an “old form of bigotry” or that what they say is “stupid” really has no business piously announcing that others should “argue an issue on the merits, not with name calling.” Look in the mirror, James.
By Donna July8,2010
Well here is the mirror Donna:
You have everything but “Craig’s” erratic capitalizations. Clearly, the same sort of stunted “pay attention to me” crapola. Donna april 17
Oh, this is rich. A guest appearance by James to smugly advise us of those urbane, intellectual, upperclass Tea Partiers. Donna april 18
I’m very comfortable with my view–which is based on significant empirical evidence–that the “Tea Partiers” are easily led, not terribly bright, ill-informed dolts.
Donna 4-18
Sorry, Gregorio–you are not very bright, not very informed, and not at all interesting. Donna 4-19
let us all remember that James was not simply Wagnerian in the length of his posts–they were basically always saying the same thing. And it was typically “Sarah Palin: Good” or “Ted Kennedy: Bad.” Donna 2-16
oh, and that idiot Thomas. Thomas–can you find your own ass to wipe it or is that beyond your abilities? Donna 12-09
Thomas–please don’t feel bad. Many of men have problems sustaining an erection. You can get help for that.
Donna 12-09
Lew–you display the courtesy that is typical of the self-satisfied but deeply flawed fundamentalist. How sad that your faith hasn’t helped you become a better person.
Donna 11-20-09
vgman,
I have a question for you. Why is it that you don’t correct Juneau Joe’s “dieing,” or Donna’s ignorance regarding “alot,” but you call out Craig & gregoire’s grammar errors? Joe even mocks the tea bagger signs and their misspelled words over and over again.
Smells like hypocrisy to me. Anonymous 2-16
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By: Craig on July 8, 2010
at 9:24 PM
I re- read Number Ten.
I agree about Rand Paul, but he is only one man. The list of Republicans and Democrats would fill pages.
I wrote maybe Jean was right but the way she wrote it didn’t make sense.
Which people wanted the legislature to decide? Did someone do a survey?
In your opinion, why did the governor want to put the vote to the people after she vetoed it? Is it really going to happen, or was she just talking? Was she afraid of pro-life/pro choice type rancor which we still live with after half of the population believed a decision was rammed down their throats? Why if she opposed the civil unions, didn’t she just quietly veto the bill? Was the governor trying to protect her political future by working both sides of the street?
I see your point, but I am more of an anti- Federalist where Number ten is concerned. Initiative and referendum help when the government becomes too large and distant to care about our concerns.
A referendum would engage a wide-spread debate. If it failed, a bill could be reintroduced in the next legislature. Nebraska has no official “factions” in its unicameral legislature, and the system works pretty well.
If I were the governor, I would have signed the bill and said nothing. I support gay marriage but wouldn’t want to force something so divisive on a large population. Two women are friends of ours. Theirs was the first in our county after Iowa permitted gay marriage.
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By: James on July 8, 2010
at 8:30 PM
“It kills dialogue, and you know it.” Yet another example of James’ self-righteousness. No, James–you don’t have the foggiest idea what I do or do not know. You see, I communicate for a living. And I find that it is the worst prepared lawyers, who have no substance, who are the first to say “Your Honor, X is true and he/she knows it.” Nonsense.
As for you liking what you see when you look in the mirror, your rather lofty view of yourself has always been evident from your “I told you so!” and overly long posts. My point was that you were projecting, not that you literally should go look in a mirror. But your response was predictable.
Lori–what do you mean “yellow?”
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By: Donna on July 8, 2010
at 7:22 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and fiona64 on July 8, 2010 at 4:32 PM,
Excellent point about Federalist Paper No.10, fiona 64.
I’m afraid I left an awful lot of names off my list of smart, well informed people on my comments about the HI Civil Unions Bill. You can chalk it up to my faulty memory! I regret the many omissions.
I’ll catch you later this evening.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 8, 2010
at 5:20 PM
James wrote, of HI’s civil union bill: What’s wrong with that? The whole state, not the governor or legislators would decide. I don’t know anything about the governor, but the way Jean described it, Governor Lingle is doing the right thing.
How about this for starters: the people said they wanted it left to the legislature. This is now a classic case of “Ask your Mom”/”Ask your Dad.”
Secondly, civil rights should NEVER be put to a popular vote. Period, end of report. If you aren’t sure why, go back and re-read Federalist Paper No. 10.
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By: fiona64 on July 8, 2010
at 4:32 PM
James wrote: As PFessor53, wrote, Democrats and Republicans have more embarrassing characters than the Tea party does.
I can prove you wrong, in just two words:
Rand Paul
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By: fiona64 on July 8, 2010
at 4:30 PM
I am pro-choice, and I think Sharon Angle is a disaster. She would not have gotten the nomination in Iowa or Nebraska. Tea Party people are different from one region to the next.
She is an example of the harm the Tea Party can do along with the good, and Angle isn’t the only one. I don’t think I could vote for her, but I would never call her a sex act as Lori and some others do.
As PFessor53, wrote, Democrats and Republicans have more embarrassing characters than the Tea party does.
I didn’t know Lori had a blog. Even if I read it, I’d still have time to make a difference, and I have.
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By: James on July 8, 2010
at 4:23 PM
LOL.
I can see it now. “But he won’t take the bait! I even did abortion and I said bagger a whole bunch of times! Doesn’t he know what that meanssssss? What do I do nowwwwwww??”
a L and a O and a L.
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By: Fluxux on July 8, 2010
at 2:01 PM
Sharron Angle – god, what a rube.
As you can see, people in the Tea Party have people who frankly embarrass everybody, and the common-sense folks just wish they’d go away.
Fortunately they are few in number when compared to those in the Democrat and ReBiblican party who have been embarrassing us all for decades.
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By: PFesser53 on July 8, 2010
at 1:03 PM
Bagger……… Sharron Angle’s, (R from Nevada.. running against Harry Reid) has some advice for rape victims….. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/08/sharron-angles-advice-for_n_639294.html)
In a radio interview Angle did in late June, the Tea Party favorite re-affirmed her pro-life sensibilities (rigid, as they are, even within Republican circles), when she insisted that a young girl raped by her father should know that “two wrongs don’t make a right.” Much good can come from a horrific situation like that, Angle added. Lemons can be made into lemonade.
So there you have it rape victims.. make lemons into lemonade! Straight from the baggers mouth!
Thanks to this nutcase we actually have a chance to hold onto a Senate seat this November! There is a GOD! ..;-)
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By: lori on July 8, 2010
at 12:21 PM
You’re a sweetheart Donna! Your spirit is pure yellow…
I’ve been called worse by a hell of a lot better! LOL Politics is a dirty bizness.. It’s all good.. I say bring it on!!!!!! The more time they worry (waste) about what I’m sayin on a tiny little blog the less time they have to go out in the world and make a REAL difference….
😉
namaste alllllll…
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By: lori on July 8, 2010
at 11:56 AM
Whether or not she realizes it, Lori is engaging in an “old form of bigotry.” That is fact. She doesn’t have enough respect for those she offends to change her language, so I am not inclined to mince words either.
Implying Arizona citizens are racists is stupid, and that is a fact, not a falsely pious criticism. It is stupid because it is untrue and creates counter hostility. It kills dialogue, and you know it.
I’m not calling Lori a bigot or stupid. Her language in those two cases is foolish and offensive and that is different from saying what she is like as a person.
I look in the mirror every day, and I like what I see.
By the way, look up the Rhode Island Illegal Immigrant Control order of 2008. It was only an executive order, but it shows Arizona was not the first.
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By: James on July 8, 2010
at 11:42 AM
Big Brother is now “Perfect Citizen.”
I’m already starting to feel so much safer. If we get all the predator drones, actual (by the same company that engineered Israel’s wall) and virtual fences on the borders, rid our land of all the illegal immigrants and assassinate suspected terrorists before they commit their heinous acts, maybe we’ll achieve Utopia. At least a brave new world. Getting better by the day! 😎
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By: poolman on July 8, 2010
at 11:12 AM
The general rule for fighting with your spouse is that you may say their idea is stupid, but not that THEY are stupid, (although if you want to get laid that night you ought to be somewhat more diplomatic).
And if a statement is bigoted, it is bigoted; that doesn’t mean the *person* is, in general, a bigot – they may have just gotten momentarily hot under the collar, and that happens. Been there.
That may seem like putting too fine a point on it, but it seems to me to be a pretty good rule – one that allows people to disagree strongly without name-calling.
James’ statements were pretty strong, but under those rules of engagement I call “no foul.”
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By: PFesser53 on July 8, 2010
at 11:06 AM
Maybe it’s just me. But I happen to think that someone who says that another is engaging in an “old form of bigotry” or that what they say is “stupid” really has no business piously announcing that others should “argue an issue on the merits, not with name calling.” Look in the mirror, James.
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By: Donna on July 8, 2010
at 10:06 AM
Jean wrote that Governor Linda Lingle vetoed the civil union bill after she said it was too important for one person to decide. Now, Governor Lingle says she wants it to be put up to a vote “on the ballot by the entire public.”
What’s wrong with that? The whole state, not the governor or legislators would decide. I don’t know anything about the governor, but the way Jean described it, Governor Lingle is doing the right thing.
Maybe Jean left something out, and she is right. However, the way she wrote it created such a wide failure of logic a fleet of trucks could drive through.
Her speculation about conservative reaction to the “Duckboat” “incident appears to be wrong too. At least, I haven’t heard anything about it.
Chrystal represents the majority view in this country, and she states it well. So far, no one has been able to refute what she has written. The United States is charged with protecting our borders, and it is failing. Our government has granted several amnesties since the Reagan administration, and all have failed because none provided for controlling the borders.
That, I believe is Chrystal’s point. Obama’s plan is similar to Bush’s (sounds reasonable to me) which failed after a public uprising of phone calls and letters. Clarence Page wrote “Where’s the new legislation that might move Obama’s promise into law? Don’t hold your breath…Either way, we can expect a lot more talk with or without much action.”
That is why Arizona passed its law and other states are considering similar legislation. They want the government to enforce laws already on the books.
Lori seemed horrified that right wingers on a message board wrote they want to “take back our country come November.” Some of them want to impeach Obama. Imagine that.
Not so long ago, leftists spoke about “taking back our country,” some compared Bush to Hitler, and I think someone in Congress issued a token impeachment bill against Bush or Cheney. At least one leftist wrote fiction about assinating the president. Star Jones, said on The View that newly elected Bush was not her president.
Dr. Jacob Vigtor of Duke University studied mutually hostile groups and learned that over time, they become alike. When Lori visited that site, she was looking into a mirror.
Congress did not impeach Clinton for lying about a blow job. Clinton committed perjury in a court case in which he was a defendant. It cost him his law license. Had one of us done that we would have served time.
Someone with Lori’s perspicacity should know that. Or maybe she is trying to rewrite history.
Lori’s penchant for calling Tea Party people a sexual name is an old form of bigotry. Name calling is a way of cutting a group of people from the herd, to make them less human that the rest of “us.’ It is used during wars to dehumanize enemies so soldiers can more easily find the emotional fortitude to kill other humans.
A few Democrats used the insulting term for Tea Party people because they knew how dangerous they were to their electoral prospects. Had they been harmless, “libtards” ( a term some conservatives use to dehumanize liberals. I’m using it to illustrate my point.) wouldn’t have bothered.
Lori’s accusing Arizonians of racism is stupid. Of course, some whites are racists. So are Hispanics. Argue an issue on the merits, not with name calling.
Fremont, Nebraska passed a resolution requiring anyone renting or buying a house or taking a job prove he/she is a citizen. The best way to stop illegal immigration in my opinion is to make it impossible for businesses to hire them without serious penalty. The American Civil Liberties Union plans to sue.
Many illegals are coming here to better themselves. They are also filling a need. Too many people in this country are exploiting the illegal aliens for their own purposes, whether it be for votes or cheap labor. Like drugs people will come here to fill a demand.
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By: James on July 8, 2010
at 8:41 AM
Suggestion for a new blog:
What The Hell is Wrong With Us?
http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/08/nasa-reaches-out-to-muslims-other-federal-agencies-stick-to-their-day-job/
ARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
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By: PFesser53 on July 8, 2010
at 7:27 AM
Poolman, thanks for the link. The toilet bowl reference gave me a laugh. That in itself was worth the time I took to download and read it. There is no doubt in my mind that our side and the other have created fake enemy cells or fake victims at times to turn or reinforce public opinion.
However, real terrorists have declared war on us. They seem to have successfully coordinated financial and other resources to become an effective enemy. Many are free lance groups, rather like McDonalds’ franchises who take the name of the group which inspired them but largely operate on their own.
As far as the site, I don’t know enough to say what part of it is true and what is false. I’ll have to do some research when I find the time. I do appreciate your taking the trouble to provide the links.
I like your “start small” comment. It is how the Tea Party movement began. The civil rights movement and even the American Revolution began as you described. For example, Obama wanted to Congress to approve the health insurance bill before the August recess, and thanks to protests, town hall meetings, and calls to Congresspeople the health insurance bill didn’t pass until much later.
We all need to call our representatives when we agree and disagree, and we need to know who we are voting for. Our representatives need to fear us, because we hire them and pay their salaries.
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By: James on July 8, 2010
at 7:04 AM
Hi All – and especially you, lori.
(I’m glad you decided not to run away, FWIW)
lori said: “Does that law in Arizona really do anything to fix immigration or is it just a new way of saying you don’t want a Mexican buying the house next door?”
I think you have your answer. From that hotbed of Conservative thought, the New York Times re: Arizona illegal immigration law, SB 1070
“It’s nice to see the Obama administration finally concede there is no allowance for racial profiling in Arizona’s immigration law,” said Kirk Adams, the Republican speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives. “After all the sound and fury about discrimination, it’s now clear that the administration’s entire case against SB 1070 rests on a technical claim that the law is indirectly pre-empted by federal immigration law.”
United States Representative Trent Franks, an Arizona Republican, said Mr. Obama’s discrimination worries are “glaringly absent from his lawsuit.”
“It is beyond ironic,” Mr. Franks added, “that the main claim in the lawsuit is that Arizona is wrongly pre-empting a federal responsibility when the entire reason the legislation was necessary in the first place was precisely because the federal government was simply not living up to its responsibility.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself. They are suing Arizona for embarrassing them – nothing more, nothing less. christ on a crutch.
And one more thing, while I’m thinking of it:
“I’m with Margaret when she asks, “How long before Tea Party members stop misspelling signs and just start burning crosses?
I might gently suggest not throwing stones until you spell-check your own posts. (I’ll give you a leg up. It’s not the paragraph quote above.)
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 8, 2010
at 6:43 AM
Jean, I read about your governor.. she is a piece of work isn’t she?
Just one more example of why we have to continue to fight as hard as we can to keep these crazies at bay. I was lurking on a loon’s nest yesterday (right wing blog) and I read about how they were planning (after they “take back their America come November” ) to push for impeachment! There were 6 or 7 wingnuts actually discussing impeaching Obama for treason! It sounds like something Beck has thought up and spread to his minions. It would be funny if it weren’t so scary.
Hell they impeached Clinton for lying about a blow job I guess anything is possible!
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By: lori on July 8, 2010
at 5:28 AM
Geytdog haven’t you heard the news ??? LOL We aren’t going to have a wall. Rand Paul and his baggers like the idea of an electric burried fence instead!
We are fixen to ZAP them aliens!
Geeeeze that is a MUCH better idea!
I’m with Margaret when she asks, “How long before Tea Party members stop misspelling signs and just start burning crosses?
Does that law in Arizona really do anything to fix immigration or is it just a new way of saying you don’t want a Mexican buying the house next door?”
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By: lori on July 8, 2010
at 4:54 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, Greytdog, jsri, poolman, lori, easier, delurkergurl, Donna, Juneau Joe, no one’s puppet, Rae, judith, alaskapi, Mageen in Old Virginny, vgman, mikat, avrosante, et al………
Now, now, Greytdog, calm down. We have had worse messes and infestations here on Helen’s porch before and always managed to clean ’em up, disinfect and fumigate. So we can do it again. But Grandma Katie and I are getting a little old for all this KP duty so, pitch in everybody!!! Believe it or not, I think we are making a little progress. Trust me.
NOVEMBER’S COMIN’!!!!!
Also Greytdog, a friend touted me on to a rather avant gard magazine I think you might be interested in. We got a subscription to it. It is UTNE Reader. You can Google it at: http://www.Utne.com.
I thought, as a talented young writer, it might be a good place for you to get your feet wet and build up a published resume.
However, one caveat. As in all magazines these days, it is littered with ads. I usually just ignore them but there was one that caught my eye. It’s a tiny ad for an 81 page nudist catalog. Now, if you are a nudist, what possible use could you have to buy anything from an 81 page catalog?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 8, 2010
at 1:36 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Honolulu Sally,
Interesting political stuff going on out here, huh, Sally. We get the Honolulu Advertiser paper and of course the local news out of HNL, but I think everybody here at M&H would be interested in your perspective from Oahu.
FYI gang, we have a Republican Governor, Linda Lingle, and a Democratic Legislature. The Senate passed a bill with a simple majority on Civil Unions and the House Bill 444 yesterday was vetoed by the governor. Now I have not memorized the Hawaii State Constitution, but I believe it takes a 2/3 majority of both houses to override the governor’s veto. The House is four votes shy of override.
Governor Lingle has been sitting on the bill since April I think, trying to make up her mind. She stated on TV yesterday that it was too important an issue for one person to make that decision so she vetoed it and wants it to be put to a vote on the ballot by the entire public.
Say what??? Hello??? Am I missing something here??? It is too important an issue for one person to decide but isn’t she one person?
Her second term is up so she is no longer eligible to run for governor. She has made no overtures that I know of for another political office but here is a possible scenario. She is still fairly young, soft spoken and seems to be a nice lady, if somewhat mousy in appearance. If and when she decides to run for further office, she would need endorsements and financial support for her campaign.
Our two U.S. Senators, Inouye and Akaka, are elderly, in their mid 80’s. They are both democrats. Inouye is of Japanese ancestry and Akaka is of Hawaiian descent. Since the death of WV Senator Byrd, Senator Pro tem Inouye is now fourth in line for the presidency after Vice-President Biden and Speaker of the House Pelosi.
Sen. Inouye is definitely a war hero of WWII. He was in a much-decorated Japanese-American unit serving in Europe. It also had one of the highest mortality rates of any unit in the war. He lost an arm and was in a VA hospital recovering for some time from his injuries along with Sen. Robert Dole. They became fast friends. Dole was at one time a Presidential Candidate. Dole and Inouye both were and are rightly considered Statesmen.
At one time a detractor called Inouye a “One-Armed Bandit”.
At the same time Inouye was fighting for the country he loves, many of his fellow Japanese-American citizens were rounded up and sent to internment camps for the duration of the war. I know this first hand because I was a pen pal for a while with a young girl. She and her family were from somewhere on the West Coast. I was put in contact with her as a result of a charitable organization that was also trying to help Native Americans on reservations somewhere in New Mexico. The internment camp was also in the Southwest.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 8, 2010
at 12:53 AM
I can’t wait until the United States has its own version of the Berlin Wall – or more currently, the wall separating Gaza from Israel. Just think – we be just like all the rest of the people skeered of them others who don’t look, act, or talk like us. Shit.
Between the fear and the hate that’s sweeping this country, I’d say the Constitution itself is becoming an outdated document. And the great experiment in constitutional democracy – i’d say we’re about at a D-, bordering on F.
So talk to the paw all you want – I’m outta here.
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By: Greytdog on July 7, 2010
at 11:02 PM
“So I don’t fall for the government wants “drugs for guns” concept here.” – Craig
You are looking at the local level for some evidence of the influence we play in the global drug trade and therefore are not going far enough down the rabbit hole. It all ties together. The closer you get to the source, it’s easier to see how the many strings are connected. But for those on the inside, you’re just following orders. You are on a need to know basis. If you want to advance, it is a very dangerous climb in that hierarchy – that is, unless you have decided evil is your good. Beware, however, if you are a citizen with a conscience and feel you should be able to report illegal or unethical activities. Those in positions of authority just may not want to hear it.
How many people work for companies whose practices are underhanded – maybe just slightly – yet keep tight-lipped to save their job and do not make waves? That is usually the first step. After that, they get easier to take. Especially if you are desperate or have a fondness for money.
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By: poolman on July 7, 2010
at 6:42 PM
Greytdog,
Perhaps the state or states should be looking to see if the President will enforce the boundaries of the United States? He does have that authority governing our borders does he not? And if does not authorize the proper amount of force necessary, is he not culpable in the illegal immigration of those individuals who cross our borders?
Amendment 10 – Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The above, Obviously was before the Civil War..but if interpreted by the state..I would think the state has authority over its own border,
Section 2 – State citizens, Extradition
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or OTHER CRIME, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.
Jurisdiction is defined as:
jurisdiction n the power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law : the limits or territory within which authority may be exercised
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By: Chrystal on July 7, 2010
at 5:09 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
We’ve been watching CNN with the developments in Philly of the ‘Duck Boat’ and barge collision on the Delaware River. We took that tour one time when we were visiting our kids and young grandkids in PA. It‘s in conjunction with a bus tour of historical sites of the city. The passengers are issued yellow plastic ‘duck bills’ on a ribbon to wear around their necks. On cues from the guide/narrator, everybody blows into them, a là whistles, and there is a big ruckus of duck sounds. This is for the benefit of passersby on the streets of Philly and on other boats on the river. It’s a great way for kids (and adults too) to get a handle on American History first hand.
The bus and the ‘Duck Boat’ are a really, really fun tour; visiting the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, Betsy Ross’ home, the Ben Franklin Institute and the Rodin Museum among many other interesting places including the ‘Rocky Balboa’ steps up to the Philadelphia Museum of Art. I think other cities also have ‘Duck Boats’, such as Boston on the Mystic and/or Charles Rivers, and on the Potomac in Washington D.C. Maybe NYC and Baltimore too. Can any of you East Coast folks verify that?
Now it’s time to get in a little dig about ‘Conservative Thinking’, (an oxymoron if there ever was one!) I have no doubt whatsoever that Limbaugh, Beck and O’Reilly will expound on this unfortunate incident as no accident, but a terrorist attack. Further, Boehner will get up on the senate floor and declare into a mic that this is yet another example of President Obama not doing his job to protect the American people.
We are off to hobble around the big cities of Kapaa and Lihue this afternoon. Have a lovely day everyone.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 7, 2010
at 4:57 PM
“The government has no desire to stop the drug trade. As a matter of fact, they are deeply involved in it. Time allows us to view some of the facts kept from us by our government. Upon review, it is obvious that we are involved in purchasing and supplying drugs and weapons to the world, to promote our agenda.”
“When we were looking for assistance in battling fires here in Arizona in the late 90′s, it came to the surface that our government had operatives working in the forest service and the post office to promote their ongoing drug activities.” POOLMAN
**************************************
Respectfully and personally, I disagree with you on your above comment. I worked with Bell Helicopter several years and filmed activities by the Kentucky State Police,Kentucky Army Reserves and other local authorities in searching for and destroying illegal plantings and Meth labs hidden in mountain locations that could only be spotted by air.
We would search by air and then land in the nearest local school yard. Picked up and escorted by armed ground units, more often than not, we were looked upon by the locals with much disdain for ruining their Christmas. Since much of the best growing areas are in the depleted coal mine regions, these people do not take kindly to outsiders. I have filmed warning signs,booby traps, full size log cabins on top of mtn. ridges and collecting bins for water used to assist the growth of pot. I watched and filmed as it was cut, hauled away and either burned or thrown over a Mtn. side to destroy its use. This is an annual activity during the peak growing season approaching now.
I have also been to St. Kitts in the Caribbean and filmed similar activities by their Defense Forces. Difference there is, if your caught and found guilty you are thrown in prison and all of your possessions including your home is taken by the government.
And as for our “government Prevention” of activities to get rid of drugs… St Kitts as well as many of the other islands in the region have pre-positioned materials,uniforms,packs, etc. in other words all the supplies needed to be available in case of a use for or by the Defense forces the region. I still have my back pack and canteen issued to me.
Finally, having also visited Aruba, we have pre-positioned AWAC’s there for Drug Intervention.
So I don’t fall for the government wants “drugs for guns” concept here.
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By: Craig on July 7, 2010
at 4:43 PM
huh – didn’t realize that we now call our national borders “the Constitution”. Always thought that was the document of law and organization upon which this country & its govt is predicated upon. Funny that. All those years of civics and constitutional law and they had it all wrong. The oath is about protecting physical borders not about upholding the rule of law. Interesting.
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By: Greytdog on July 7, 2010
at 4:30 PM
James, here’s another link that might be easier for your dial up.
I agree, people need to unite. Community provides strength in numbers. We have to get past the political parties and politics itself that intentionally separates us into nonproductive groupthink. We need to work together for the good of people in our local community over businesses. The needs are overwhelming. Start small. We can all do some good. Goodness actually spreds much like wildfire. Some will have to examine their allegiances. It may encompass (in some instances) using a system of barter or other forms of currency that are not bank or federally controlled. Self-sufficiency should be the goal. We cannot build community from the top down. It must start neighbor to neighbor. It is a reverse of the trend that began 50 years ago, and foreign to most people in America. That was the intent of those behind the curtain. Now we have to swim upstream.
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By: poolman on July 7, 2010
at 3:07 PM
Thanks for posting, Chrystal. Our son and daughter in law live in northern California, and they believe as you do. Our daughter -in law was born in Korea and became a citizen, and her siblings who came here with her agree too.
Poolman,
thanks for the link. However, because of our slow dial up I waited twenty minutes for it to load. I don’t have much time right now–more berries to pick. My wife and I have to be at a meeting in about three hours too. I’ll ask questions later.
I agree with most, but not all of your post about the government’s not wanting to stop the drug trade. That includes the immigrant trade, and I’m sure we both think some businesses are also involved.
We need something like what the Tea Parties are doing to “turn this country upside down.” Any suggestions? People need to unite, whether or not we agree on everything.
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By: James on July 7, 2010
at 2:37 PM
I did some investigating after watching a history last night about sub activity in the Gulf during World War Two. Here is a little of what I have discovered about spills in the Gulf of Mexico from the War and since.
While the current BP disaster is bad and not improving anytime soon, this incident is dwarfed by the 1979 Gulf of Mexico Pemex/Ixtoc I Oil blowout, until now the largest accidental spill in history. This spill lasted almost ten months, releasing between ten and thirty thousand barrels per day. In total, it released approximately 3.3 million barrels into the Gulf.
Using the current upper end estimate of 60,000 Barrels per day, the Deepwater Horizon spill has now surpassed the Pemex spill, so it can rightfully claim its place as record-holder for accidental spills. But it still is dwarfed by Saddam Hussein’s deliberate release of somewhere between 5.7 and 11 million barrels from tankers ten miles off the Kuwaiti coast.
While the Pemex spill affected 162 miles of coastline in Texas and Mexico, the long-term environmental consequences were negligible. As one marine biologist put it, “To be honest, considering the magnitude of the spill, we thought the Ixtoc spill was going to have catastrophic effects for decades. … But within a couple of years, almost everything was close to 100 percent normal again.”
The deliberate spill orchestrated by Saddam was the single largest man-made oil discharge in history, but we hear nary a peep from sanctimonious Leftist environmentalists about damage there. Why not?
But by far the worst spills came in the opening months of World War II, when German U-boats off the north Atlantic coast sank 452 oil tankers carrying approximately 29.4 million barrels. Those spills had no serious long-term environmental impacts that we know of. For the Gulf blowout to leak this much oil, it would have to spew 60,000 barrels per day for 490 days.
The Union of Concerned Scientists exactly claim spills around the world equal about 1 billion gallons, or almost 24 million barrels annually.
So all in all, this is similar to the amount sunk by U-boats in WWII as described above every year.
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By: Craig on July 7, 2010
at 2:05 PM
“Poolman, what do you mean Al Quaeda was manufactured?” – James
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By: poolman on July 7, 2010
at 12:30 PM
Lori, jsri, and anyone else of like mind:
I read that Rachael Maddow said on June 29, “But the bigger story here is how curdled, pitiful and inbred policy and even argument itself gets when it is never exposed to opposing views. How weak the political and rhetorical muscles get when they are allowed to atrophy.”
Don’t you agree jsri and lori? Or can’t you cope with opposing views which may be closer to realty than yours?
You’re welcome, Jim.
Poolman, what do you mean Al Quaeda was manufactured? If you mean it was a public relations ploy to support a war, I disagree. If you mean it was an unintended consequence of our earlier proxy war with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and other elements of our foreign policy of the time, then we can partly agree.
As for the rest, I partly agree again. What do you think we should do to stop the development of a police state? Watch how fast the world has changed in the past few years. We don’t have much time.
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By: James on July 7, 2010
at 12:19 PM
The government has no desire to stop the drug trade. As a matter of fact, they are deeply involved in it. Time allows us to view some of the facts kept from us by our government. Upon review, it is obvious that we are involved in purchasing and supplying drugs and weapons to the world, to promote our agenda.
When we were looking for assistance in battling fires here in Arizona in the late 90’s, it came to the surface that our government had operatives working in the forest service and the post office to promote their ongoing drug activities.
If we don’t go after the people in power and change this from the TOP down, there will be no progress. We are just adding numbers to those incarcerated, helping profit a booming private business. This country needs to be turned upside down and criminals in government and high places prosecuted first. Otherwise it is merely an exercise in futility.
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By: poolman on July 7, 2010
at 12:17 PM
Well let me dip my toes into this discussion about the Arizona law.
Since I live in Southern California, I’m constantly exposed to the news and the conditions of regarding illegal “immigrants”. I emphasize the word immigrants.
We have systems and or procedures in place for people who want to follow the law to apply and enter the United States legally.
Now the United States government wants to stop the state of Arizona from doing what the national government is suppose to enforce.
Now I quote the following:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
So the key words are preserve and protect and defend.
The Arizona law simply wants to defend the state inhabitants from illegal immigrants who are not always coming across with the sole purpose of getting work. Many are now mules for the cartels. They are armed and dangerous.
So what would the State police forces look for to
determine a possible question of whether a citizen were legally here or not?
Wearing multiple layers of clothes,carrying gallon water bottles and backpacks are not signs of a
legal citizen looking for work. That is the sign of someone who just walked across a 10-30 mile trek in order to hide at night in the cold, yet make it the rest of the way across a desert, and hopefully live to tell about it.
But hey that’s just my 10 cents worth.
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By: Chrystal on July 7, 2010
at 11:47 AM
jsri & lori –
“With no new posts to discuss the time gets filled in with a lot of skewed political comments”
But that is exactly what M&H’s comments are – that’s what the whole blog is – political. If not politics, what should we discuss, rutabagas?
“that appear to be conjured up for no other reason than to create confusion. -snip- I suspect this may be the reason some of the regular posters of the past are no longer here.”
That is one explanation. Another might be that some cannot tolerate opposing views, and when folks show up who might want to actually *discuss* things, instead of just blowing sunshine up each other’s backsides, those people pout awhile and then leave. Just a thought…
Case in point:
“I agree with you… sadly… The good news is there are LOTS of sites out there just like M&H’s that are discussing current events and haven’t allowed the shiny object to get in the way of good discussion.
I know you know where they are OR know how to find them…
It was a good ride…. on we go…. ”
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you cain’t have no “discussion” if you run away.
Jim
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 7, 2010
at 11:38 AM
As we move closer to a police state – some believe we are already there – We can see the same maneuvers employed in local policing that we use justifying our military aggression. Just like Al-Qaeda was manufactured, now we employ black ops in our own cities. In each case over the past few years, we have police posing as violent protesters. This in turn “justifies” the response of the force inacted against the protesters. Over a BILLION dollars was spent on security alone for this latest G-20 summit. That could provide a lot of rice bowls and clean water to those in need, but hey, I guess it shows just where our priorities are.
Here’s one protester’s account of the arrest of peaceful demonstrators. Investment wise, if you want to succeed in today’s world market, security related products and companies should do very well. That is a true indicator of our societal health.
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By: poolman on July 7, 2010
at 11:29 AM
Jsri I agree with you… sadly… The good news is there are LOTS of sites out there just like M&H’s that are discussing current events and haven’t allowed the shiny object to get in the way of good discussion. I know you know where they are OR know how to find them…
It was a good ride…. on we go….
xoxox
namaste
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By: lori on July 7, 2010
at 11:10 AM
James –
Well-spoken. Thanks for saving me the time.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 7, 2010
at 10:48 AM
I agree Greytdog.
Yes, Poolman,
the Arizona immigration law is a political move to call attention to the federal government’s failure to guard the borders. If the government had done its job, there would be no immigration legislation from Arizona.
Up to twenty states are considering such legislation. As I wrote, I have doubts about the law, but calling its supporters bigots is wrong. Of course, some are. However, many people are merely tired of watching people come here after jumping to the head of the line. That is not bigotry.
The Tea Party has not yet fallen apart. They have had more successes than failures, though some of their efforts should have failed. I agree, they are a group of people with little experience at mass protest, and they are ill -dosposed to let someone organize or lead them.
You may be right. In April, Omaha had two competing Tea Parties who bad- mouthed each other. Their candidate lost to the Republican with a good chance of keeping his seat, and they debated whether or not to sit out the election. If they should, they would hand a victory to a Democrat. They may well fall apart, before the election, but as long as our world deteriorates, an equivalent movement will continue.
The coffee party was started by a Democratic operative to countermand the Tea Party movement. I don’t know about now, but in the beginning, it actually had a leader.
The New York Times and others reported President Obama will bypass the nomination process with a recess appointment of Donald Berwick as head of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid services. The Times wrote “The recess was somewhat unusual because the Senate is in recess for less than two weeks and senators were still waiting for Dr. Berwikc to submit responses to some of their request for information.”
He has said: ” the new health insurance system will be “rationing with our eyes open”. He praised the UK’s National Health Service as romantic. He doesn’t like private health insurance, and he said ” Excellent health care is by definition redistributional.” Wait until Berwick, an unelected, unconfirmed official controls our health insurance system.
I basically agree with the rest of your post about the stimulus and floor of the Gulf. “It will take a miracle to heal the fractured sea floor.” I don’t think we will have one.
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By: James on July 7, 2010
at 10:37 AM
Hi Jean:
Once more, it is fun reading about your travel adventures. Reminds me of many of our own. But medical concerns have taken a toll in recent years and with security issues woven into the mix, we rarely go much farther than we can drive in a given day. Though my dislike of airlines has a long and complex history, I guess what I’m saying to those who are still young, willing and able, – go visit another country. It will not only broaden your experiences but it may also change your perspective and as well as your perceptions.
Actually, H&M’s website has been a disappointment lately. With no new posts to discuss the time gets filled in with a lot of skewed political comments that appear to be conjured up for no other reason than to create confusion. As long as I have read this site I don’t recall any regular poster here who seems to have been swayed by opposing arguments. And the less likely the arguments are to be accepted, the wilder they become. I suspect this may be the reason some of the regular posters of the past are no longer here.
By the way, have you seen any of the sites that claim Helen & Margaret is a hoax? I’d guess the perps don’t believe that anyone over fifty can have operating brain cells. Their ageist put-downs get old pretty fast.
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By: jsri on July 7, 2010
at 10:01 AM
Good morning folks! Still waiting with baited breath for a new post from Helen. Meanwhile, my two cents regarding the recent topics…
The immigration legislation that passed here in Arizona is purely a political move and has nothing to do with trying to take care of the issue. Illegal immigration and border crime is the LOWEST it has been in DECADES, with the last 2 years showing the biggest decline. Russel Pearce who has been pushing his racial agenda for years finally got enough support nationally to be able to get this bill through. Though it was supposed to go into effect already, it is so tied up in litigation that I don’t think we will see enforcement anytime soon.
It got the national attention they wanted. It got the attention of the fed. And it helped to unite the bigots under one banner. In that way it was successful. This was not an issue put in front of the voting public. The parties protesting and opposed to it have greatly outnumbered those in support of it. The police officers are not even sure how they are supposed to approach or enforce this law.
The tea party is falling apart. They keep eating their own. I don’t expect them to be around much longer. The biggest issue is that they really haven’t got a solid platform or share common ideals. Other groups will form from the remnants of the disillusioned, much like the coffee party has.
Party politics keeps us from making headway with important issues that need to be resolved in order for this nation to continue to thrive. Right now we are on life support and I hope our “insurance provider” doesn’t decide to pull the plug. Millions have joined the impoverished in our country. No one with a desire has the means to help. This will have far-reaching consequences for our future. We cannot sustain this for too much longer, I’m afraid. I still say the stimulus should have been given to the actual taxpayers that needed it, not the banks who fomented this crisis. I don’t think I would get the same criticism of that position today as I did when it was fresh.
The Gulf is continuing to spew methane and oil. The seafloor is fractured and has been for quite some time. The tectonic plates and faults that converge in the area make it very unstable and warnings have been issued to drilling companies for years regarding this, but to no avail. Profit is more important than safety or environment to these companies. It will take a miracle to seal the fractured seafloor.
Just google “gulf fissures” and you will see a lot of sources dedicated to this subject. These have actually been “leaking” for years. The Deepwater Horizon drilling and blowout merely exacerbated this. These offshore blowouts are not too uncommon. We just don’t usually give them this much media coverage.
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By: poolman on July 7, 2010
at 9:17 AM
Greytdog
Not only the Gulf , but in our paper news was that those abandoned wells also exist in California waters.
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By: Craig on July 7, 2010
at 9:01 AM
FYI: 27k abandoned oil & gas wells in Gulf – no one checking them: http://ow.ly/288rI via http://SpillBabySpill.com
Okay so just what the hell is wrong with us humans? We go to the moon and leave behind junk. We’ve trashed the upper atmosphere w/dead satellites and such, and now when a well isn’t profitable, we let it corrode and leak into the ocean. Sheesh. Sorry but I’m just tired of it all. It’s not a Republican problem, it’s not a Democratic problem, it’s not even solely an American problem. We make all this crap but never think about the day when this stuff becomes obsolete. And the way the education in this country is going, we’re going to have to look elsewhere for the best and brightest to help fix this.
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By: Greytdog on July 7, 2010
at 8:51 AM
The Tea Party movement is a loosely organized grass roots movement. It contains disparate groups of people worried about the deficite among other things.They cause the Republicans as much trouble as Democrats.
Lori’s objectifying her fellow Americans with sexual terms may reflect her confusion with what she does in her spare time.
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By: James on July 7, 2010
at 6:22 AM
In simple terms, Arizona’s law is a response to Bush and Obama’s failures to control our borders.
Some illegals are returning home because of the Obama recession which is another of Obama’s failures. Maybe a bad economy will do what our government won’t.
Four illegals with a make -shift drug operation on an isolated part of our farm could have killed my wife when she accidently stumbled upon them. Bush’s failure led to that incident.
I can see November from my porch too.
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By: James on July 7, 2010
at 5:50 AM
Update for my fellow bloggers who were interested in (helping with) the KY Senate race. Conway (D) has moved into a tie with Paul (R) andddddd the even better news is Paul is ticking off the teabaggers big time.
Given the fact the baggers’ are a disorganized mess and have very little organized ability to fund raise on a district by district level their candidates have been forced to take money from ……GASP ……”established GOP ers”, which is exactly what Paul has been forced to do. 😉 gotta love it!
Keep the cards and letters flowing KY’s way friends, we have a real chance for a pick up there. Rand Paul another give that keeps on giving! I think we have a real chance to gain the super majority back in the senate and I think Crist will caucus with the Dems if elected!
Yes we can!
http://jackconway.org/
Yes we can!
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By: lori on July 7, 2010
at 5:36 AM
LOL Thanks for the chuckle this morning Jean!
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By: lori on July 7, 2010
at 4:56 AM
lori –
“It goes without saying I am over the moon the Obama admin has decided to challenge the Arizona immigration law.”
Yes, it certainly does.
“I wasn’t sure “we” had the balls, it is an election year after all…”
This isn’t “we,” this is the Federal Government, which is by definition, nothing but naked power. This lawsuit is about than that entity of power, embarrassed by Arizona’s highlighting of its feckless incompetence, trying to save face. The suit papers themselves even say that its basis is that the Feds have pre-eminence over the States in matters of immigration — NOT that the law is unconstitutional or just plain wrong. It’s nothing more than a pissing contest, where the Feds are By God going to show Arizona who is boss.
But I have news for them: I can see November from my house, and come November, I – and many like me – are going to show the FEDS who’s boss if we can.
“Politically this has shown me Obama has the stuff to take the fight to the repugs AND he has the balls to go against his own who may not have a heavy Mexican/Spanish speaking district/s.”
There are other, less flattering, interpretations.
“It’s a risk, but one we HAD to take.. politically… last but certainly NOT least it IS the right thing to do….”
Those who actually live there seem to disagree with you. Where do YOU live, if I might ask? Don’t fib…
“WTG MR. President! I’m proud of you … andddddddddddddd I am behind you.. YES WE CAN!”
Uh, actually – no we can’t. While I voted for the President, (paraphrasing Mr. Rogers: Can you say President Palin? – shudder…) I am sorely disappointed by his performance. Unfortunately Mr. Obama, when in Chicago, failed to read the work of another famous Chicagoan, Milton Friedman.
America’s (former) prosperity and eminence did not come from socialist policies – and as a long-time (admittedly amateur) student of politics and economics, I am not one to hang that tag on anyone casually. We have seen where those kinds of policies lead, haven’t we – Albania, Cuba, North Korea, and of course, that ultimate twin experiment – Germany.
lori, I don’t think you have your facts straight. From an Arizona representative’s Website:
“Federal law is very clear: if you are here on a visa you must have your papers on you at all times. That is the law. In Arizona all you need to show you are a legal citizen is a driver’s license, MVD identification card, Native American Card, or a Military ID. This is what you need to vote, get a hunting license, etc. ”
She said, “FEDERAL LAW” – the law the federal executive branch (that would be the one, by the way, of which President Obama is the chief executive) is sworn to uphold. Yeah, right…
James is absolutely right:
“Any one of us has to show a drivers license or other proof of identity. Computers check them on the spot.”
This is not rocket science. The law is clear. If you are stopped, you must have identification. If you are a citizen, a driver’s license is just fine – like it is when you get stopped for speeding or anything else. If you are a non-citizen, you must have your immigration papers to demonstrate that you are here legally.
Why is this so hard to understand? (Of course, there are those less generous who might suggest that the ignorance is deliberate, and opponents of the bill don’t WANT to understand it.)
I would never suggest such a thing, of course…
Jim
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By: pfesser53 on July 7, 2010
at 3:57 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Chrystal,
As everybody knows, us Old Folks love to recount tales of our misspent youth to anyone we can collar long enough to listen to them – over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
This story about our adventures in Singapore is a little more recent, but for the life of me, I can’t remember exactly when. Somewhere between 5 and 10 years ago (maybe more) we went on a South China Seas cruise that ended up in Singapore. We spent a few days there on our own. As you did, Chrystal, we found it to be a charming city. The ‘Paris of the East’ is an apt description I think, along with Hong Kong running a close second. It was exceptionally clean and cosmopolitan. The one drawback for me was their strict prohibition of the use and possession of chewing gum. One could risk arrest! (And caning?????) I have a fondness for chewing gum.
In one of the Singapore shops I spotted a beautiful silk blouse hanging high up on the wall. I asked the salesman how much. It was way too much so I left the shop. There were none others like it on the racks. Next thing I knew the salesman was walking beside me with the blouse over his arm. He must have climbed up on the wall and taken it down. We started haggling over the price. My husband dropped back a few paces, looking in shop windows and pretending he wasn’t with me. The bargaining went on for a block and a half before the salesman and I agreed on a price fair to both of us.
On our last night in Singapore we happened to find ourselves in a restaurant obviously frequented for the most part by local patrons. A table or two away there was a large birthday party going on. When it came time to sing ‘Happy Birthday’, we spontaneously joined in, without any forethought. A little while later, we were surprised and delighted to each be served a lovely piece of birthday cake from the celebrants.
Early on in the cruise when we had been in Ho Chi Minh City, (formerly Saigon), Vietnam, I had seen some exquisite ceramic elephants there and wanted one. My husband strongly objected. Back on the ship, he decided to take a nap so I went out ashore by myself and got me an elephant. They were about two feet wide, about eighteen inches tall and used as plant stands. Many of them were painted in multi-colored hues.
They were selling for five American dollars each and a hand woven basket to carry it in was fifty cents. With the exchange rate of 10,000 Dong (that’s ten thousand!) to every American Dollar, my elephant was a real bargain. I chose a white one with beige etched into the creases of its design. Back in the cabin I slipped him under the bed and didn’t mention it until we were out at sea on our way to Singapore. I figured my husband wouldn’t throw him overboard.
I had a bit of a crisis when it came time to pack to fly home. We had bought quite a few things and our luggage space was limited. When I started packing, I hauled out the elephant, who happened to be hollow. I stuffed dirty underwear and socks inside shoes, an old packing trick from our many travels; then put the shoes inside the elephant.
We checked one of our original carry-ons and took the elephant on board the plane. It was bulky but not very heavy, and I volunteered to carry it. My husband, always the gentleman, was trapped. It fit nicely under the seat in front of me.
It was a six-hour flight to Tokyo and a six-hour layover there. My husband was not a happy camper as he sat glaring at my stuffed-elephant-in-a-basket for six hours. Then it was a nine-hour flight to Honolulu. We were a little tuckered out when we finally stood in line for customs.
We had declared everything, but as with a few other passengers, we wound up being singled out for a random fine-toothed luggage search, including the dirty-clothes-and-shoes-stuffed-elephant. The customs agent dumped EVERYTHING out of our checked baggage, our carry-ons and my elephant. My husband stood as far away as possible, trying to disavow ever having seen me before in his life!!! It took me quite a while to re-pack all that mess.
Ah, well, we, and my elephant made it home safe and sound. We now have a genuine Vietnamese ‘White Elephant’ sitting on the floor of the living room with an orchid plant on top. My husband has made peace with it – – more or less.
Oh, comin’ and goin’, no chewing gum was found in our possession.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 7, 2010
at 12:54 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, jsri on July 6, 2010 at 9:39PM
and HRH sofia EQ on July 6, 2010 at 12:20PM,
jsri, thanks for the link to Werner. I’ll go visit him and I’m sure many of his old time friends here would also like to stop by and say hello.
HRH, I am so glad you will be taking advantage of BARDSUMMERSCAPE. I hope you will post a review of Schreker’s music since I think this will be the first time it has ever been performed in North America. Young artists in regional festivals such as this one are like ‘Avis’, they try harder. They usually deliver outstanding performances.
How delightful to be taking your granddaughter to the Fun Family Summer Festival there also. (Review that one for us too!) It is a great idea to exposing her to as many wide experiences as possible. As we all know, wee ones don’t miss a thing! Who knows, this may launch her onto a musical career. At the very least, it will enrich her life.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 6, 2010
at 7:09 PM
I agree with delurkergurl on a point, but first here is where I disagree.
Arizonians passed this law out of desperation after the government failed to enforce its own statutes. One estimate shows that illegals cost the US about $ 113 Billion a year.
It is a misdemeanor for an alien to fail to carry and present proper registration. These provisions mirror federal law passed in 1940. A person can only be guilty of the state law if he/she is guilty of the federal law.
Pro- Arizona lawyers will probably use the principle of concurrent enforcement. It has been recognized by several courts, including the Ninth Circuit. With De Canas V. Bica the US Supreme Court ruled in 1976 that states have the right to enact legislation to discourage illegal immigration within their own borders.
I don’t think law officers are allowed to question illegal-looking people unless they are doing something suspicious. Only then, can they ask for proof of citizenship.
Any one of us has to show a drivers license or other proof of identity. Computers check them on the spot. If one has a bogus license the computer will flag it–unless the license was obtained through identity theft.
In theory, brown accented citizens will be treated the same as any other. That is their protection. Only people with no proof of identity have anything to fear.
Here is where I agree with delurkergurl. People are not theories. Police might single out suspicious looking Hispanics in the same way they are accused of doing when African-Americans are stopped for driving while black. Citizens deserve better. For that reason, the law makes me uncomfortable.
Delurkergurl asked when the over reach will end. When the government decides it will. Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR are just three presidents who denied people their civil rights for the “greater good of the country.”
Lots of people don’t even know what the Bill of Rights is. Surveys after 9-11 showed a large percentage of people were willing to give up some rights for security. We are not immune to totalitarianism . If we don’t watch out, we will lose our freedom one law at a time.
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By: James on July 6, 2010
at 6:32 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, delurkergurl and lori,
Excellent points from both of you. You are both succinct, clear and get to the heart of the matter as always.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 6, 2010
at 4:09 PM
delurker, that is the problem in a nut shell isn’t it?
It is another “law” made out of fear. Just hoe many rights are we willing to give up because of fear?
I for one am thrilled Obama has drawn a line in the sand. (even though that isn’t the legal argumentin this particular challenge)
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By: lori on July 6, 2010
at 3:03 PM
The problem with the AZ law isn’t that it reaffirms that non-citizens must carry their registration documents. It’s the law and they should do that. The problem is that it tromps on illegal search & seizure protections of US citizens.
Law enforcement is required to confront anyone who looks like they could be illegal. “Illegal looking” legal citizens will be targeted along with the legal & illegal aliens. They will be forced to produce their papers as well. (Papers they don’t need because they are citizens. Awkward!) What kinds of characteristics might make a person appear to be possibly illegal? Hmmm…. being caught in AZ breathing while brown and/or accented tops the list. And how easy is it going to be to clear the matter up once they have asserted that they are citizens? After all, a drivers license doesn’t prove citizenship… what will? Or will all accented brown skinned people be let go with an apology upon their word that they are citizens of the US?
Just how are the true citizen’s legal and constitutional rights going to be protected from this law? Are they just collateral damage? If citizen’s rights are to be sacrificed because it’s an expedient way to solve a problem, where does that over-reach end? I really do want to know.
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By: delurkergurl on July 6, 2010
at 2:35 PM
Coast to Coast is like the National Enquirer on the radio. A guest repeated what we all know, that Obama and BP have done a poor job of coping with the oil leak.
The guest, wondered if their relatively slow activity results from their knowing what we don’t. He said Congress or the president through executive order should ask for the “mud logs” now. Oil companies keep them secret so their competitors don’t learn their secrets.
The logs give a detailed record of what was found as drills went into the earth’s crust and are important to show what sort of rock strata is there. They should be made public so every geologist etc can look at the records and suggest solutions to our perdicament.
BP has not told us much about oil leaking from a trench not far from the runaway well. Underlying oil and gas is pushing up and creating a dome of unknown size around the well. Gas is under so much pressure it is squeezing through the porous rock.
So much gas is escaping that lower sections of the rescue drilling rig are closed to workers and the worker have been issued gas masks.
The guest said the mound is like a cake in the oven. Open the oven and small cracks cause gas to leave the cake and it falls. A similar process might cause the mound to break. Methane and other gas would quickly bubble to the surface and kill the workers on the Gulf.
Displacement of fluids during the collapse would send a tidal wave to shore. The guest said maybe that is why Obama has been so slow to accept foreign help or to deploy more skimmers. He is afraid the mound will collapse and kill all of the workers.
Another guest this morning said a solar eclipse is due, and increased earth quakes accompany such eclipses. Redistribution of surface weight can also create earth quacks as the dams may have done in China in 2008.
Disruption in the Gulf might be enough to move the New Madrid fault and create even more problems. Both said they were talking about worst case scenarios. Best case would be status quo.
I think it would make a great science fiction movie. Considering the source, I don’t take it seriously, but Poolman might enjoy reading it.
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By: James on July 6, 2010
at 2:28 PM
Obama’s challenge of the Arizona law was inevitable. He had no choice, and he hinted from the beginning.
Arizona’s new statute contains provisions that criminalize at a state level conduct that is already against federal law. For example, both state and federal laws require aliens to carry their alien registration documents and records at all times. In that sense it is almost identical to federal law. It even refers to federal statutes.
Other parts of the state law don’t exist at the federal level. Section 5A makes it illegal for a driver to stop and attempt to hire or pick up passengers if it impedes traffic. Day laborers and those who hire them are the target.
Do such sections go beyond the bounds of preemption? Probably, but lawyers on both sides think it could go either way. My guess is it will ultimately be defeated unless both sides take it to the Supreme Court. After that, I have no clue.
Of course, Obama is also looking to turn Hispanic votes in his direction. Yes, as Lori wrote he is taking the fight to the “repugs” (Lori’s term), but the “dimocrats and libtards” (conservatives’ terms) face a long struggle. Polls show a growing number of people saying “no you can’t. and I can see November from my house.”
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By: James on July 6, 2010
at 1:58 PM
Oh Margaret, oh Helen, so long without a post! We miss you dearly! Wishing you good health and hurry back! There’s so much to discuss!
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By: dawn on July 6, 2010
at 1:28 PM
HRH … Bard as in Bard college? My niece went there! Nice school.. 😉
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By: lori on July 6, 2010
at 1:21 PM
Those stories are entertaining. Our English base had a glider besides the airoclub plane. One of our doctors took the glider up for his first solo flight. He got lost and looked for a place to land.
Eventually, he saw an old WW11 air strip and decided it was just the place. The doctor exhibited the lack of another form of situational awareness. He wondered why the runway looked like a checkerboard and decided it was a clever paint job. That is until the glider touched down. Brits had removed every other slab of concrete. No more glider.
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By: James on July 6, 2010
at 1:18 PM
It goes without saying I am over the moon the Obama admin has decided to challenge the Arizona immigration law.
I wasn’t sure “we” had the balls, it is an election year after all……
Politically this has shown me Obama has the stuff to take the fight to the repugs AND he has the balls to go against his own who may not have a heavy Mexican/Spanish speaking district/s. It’s a risk, but one we HAD to take.. politically… last but certainly NOT least it IS the right thing to do….
WTG MR. President! I’m proud of you … andddddddddddddd I am behind you.. YES WE CAN!
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By: lori on July 6, 2010
at 1:14 PM
Ding Dong the Schlong is gone.
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By: Pretty Thing on July 6, 2010
at 1:10 PM
I know it is not politcally correct…but I just love the word “Tard”. Makes me just giggle…
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By: Precious Thyme on July 6, 2010
at 12:43 PM
I can find my asshole and two cents if you treat me nice. What the hell does finding Maine and a map have to do with anything you tard?
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By: Paula on July 6, 2010
at 12:33 PM
I can find Maine on a map!
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By: LameBoy Gilsdorf on July 6, 2010
at 12:17 PM
Margaret Rocks!!!!!!!!
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By: Margie on July 6, 2010
at 12:15 PM
By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 30, 2010
at 1:17 AM “… tracking down obscurities. It is a work by Franz Schreker, “Der Ferne Klang”
Hi Auntie Jean,
Thank you for posting this, see, there really is a good reason to read all the old posts when one gets the time, like today when I’m confined to an air conditioned room because it’s too hot and ozone-ish outside to be out there.
DH and I have tickets to see this opera on Aug 4 at Bard. Went last year to see the performance of
Les Huguenots, also directed by Thaddeus Strassberger. We were unaware of the story behind the composer, we just like to find a couple of good music events to give us a break from working in the summer. Little mini vacations, so to speak. We’re fortunate in living in the area near NYC where there are many world class events to choose from. (also helps that Bard sells seniors really good seats for $25 pp if you get them early)
We’re looking forward to taking our 1yr old granddaughter to her first live music event in 2 weeks, will hear Sandra Wong and The New Trad Trio at the Caramoor Family Fun Summer Festival.
Ms Wong plays nyckelharpa, fiddle, and cross-tuned fiddles, as well as singing. The little one loves drumming and responds immediately to music, (bird song as well as recorded music) so we’re especially eager to see her response to the “big” sound of performed music.
Happy summer everyone.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on July 6, 2010
at 12:02 PM
jsri –
Woof. Probably now they would shoot him down.
There is now extant a very cool laser system that is radar-controlled. It is visible at least 25 miles, day or night. Because it is laser, it is extremely directional, and if you see alternating red/green lights, they ARE FOR YOU, and you better be turning, boy, because you are where you should not be. And if you continue and violate airspace, there will be unfriendly people landing with you wherever you go and they will want you to talk while lying face down on the ground.
It’s all a bit of an overreaction, since fully loaded my airplane weighs less than an empty automobile. But of course, the police are always busy in a police state.
jesus, when are we going to get this country back on track? Or maybe I should say ARE WE going to get it back on track? It’s getting really scary out there…
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By: PFesser53 on July 6, 2010
at 11:56 AM
Poor Margaret? Poor Margaret? What the hell has she done for me lately? Sitting up there in Maine without a care in the world while all everything else goes to hell in a handbasket. Don’t poor Margaret me.
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By: Peter Frang on July 6, 2010
at 11:56 AM
PFesser53 on July 6, 2010 at 7:41 AM
re situational awareness.
A flying friend flew Beech 18s for a living and one day ended up in Richmond after a brief right engine fire. He was instructed by his company to ferry the airplane to Erie for maintenance. This was not his first experience with the problem and the trick was to take off using both engines and after reaching altitude shut down the fire prone engine and fly single engine to his stop.
Departing Richmond, the balky engine turned squirrely shortly after liftoff and his circling climb rate was barely positive after it was shut down. Some time after departure he was barely above the treetops and even came close enough to a resort hotel along his route to be able to see the maids inside working as he passed by. They even waved at him.
When he finally shut down in Erie he was surrounded by a bunch of cars and had a half dozen guns pointed at him before he could get out. It turns out that the resort hotel he passed at low level was Camp David. After questioning him all night the secret service finally let him loose. Even the air feds accepted his story but he did have a warning letter placed in his file.
I can’t corroborate the whole story because I wasn’t with him on the night in question but I did see the letter of reprimand.
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By: jsri on July 6, 2010
at 10:08 AM
Jean
Werner is still posting on his own site. Here is his latest
http://werner-oderwer.tumblr.com/
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By: jsri on July 6, 2010
at 9:39 AM
Oops – that was supposed to be pie.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 6, 2010
at 9:34 AM
Helen- we have cleaned off the porch,even touched up paint,cleaned and dusted the parlor,filled the refrigerator with [[ie, and restocked the tea.
So please come back and tell us more.
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By: Grandma Katie on July 6, 2010
at 9:31 AM
As for the authorities my history goes way back.
First during film class we needed to film a large group of individuals exiting a building at one time.
My thought was the Federal building. This was in 1970.
I had long hair over my ears but not shoulder length… but my two compatriots looked like brothers of Abby Hoffman…ala SDS.
We were doing fine until at 8:00am when we were approached by two guards and asked us “what the hell we were doing?” When I tried to explain we were from a TCU film class and our project..it went down hill from there.
It went something like “Do you have permission? Come with me long hairs.” So they trooped us in and held us in the Federal building in the Marine recruiting office.
Next thing you know they have the Chancellor on the phone..and then it turned into a Lucy show…. ” LucY yo gots sum splaining to do”.
The Chancellor was not happy..the Film professor not happy and with promises of not to return unless we had future written permission..we were set free.
The other time was a big boo boo by Dad. Dad had just got a new Caddy in 64. It was 5:30 pm and the light was getting low as it was winter. It wanted the family to take a little drive that evening to try the wheels out. So Dad at wheel and mom in front seat,lil bro and I in rear seats we set out.
We head west into the sunset and dad takes off down a country road we had never been down before. This is west about five miles of what was Carswell Air Force Base, now know as Joint Reserve base Fort Worth. Then he gets a little lost and we make a left turn onto a gravel road and its getting darker.
The next thing I know we end up at a dead end cause there is this ten foot tall fence and gate
and then the whole world lights up!
There are two guard towers on each side of the gate and each has a spot light trained on us.
I could not get small enough in the back seat.
A truck pulls in behind us and WE are not going anywhere.
We have now triggered a base alert at an installation you would not known had existed.
Remember this is just a year or so after the Cuban missile crisis.
My dad was asked for his drivers license and asked to get out of the car. They questioned him for about five minutes and shined flashlights into our car and faces.
After the longest five minutes in my life we were let go and asked not to return in so many words.
I found out about two years later in my own car and exploring with friends in the daylight that this installation was the storage base for the nuclear war heads for the bomber base at Carswell. During the day you could see strange almost hierglyphic type black and white signs. Must have meant something to the authorities..but that was very wierd not to be posted but guess air force did not want visitors.
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By: Craig on July 6, 2010
at 9:00 AM
James –
That’s a great story. I lost situational awareness about twenty years ago and clipped the edge of an airbase’s airspace in Florida. They were a little terse on the radio, but back then you didn’t get in trouble for a little boo-boo. Nowadays they would draw and quarter you if you were lucky.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 6, 2010
at 7:41 AM
Good story pfessor53. Here is one of mine.
When I was stationed in England, four of us took a single engine airplane through Europe. We were over northeast Italy when the pilot discovered one fuel line was plugged, and he called the Rome airport for permission to make an emergency landing. They granted permission, and we were on our way.
It was late dusk when we landed, and I wondered why so many fighter jets were parked near us. I also wondered why uniformed men with side arms drawn were running toward our plane.
We had landed on an Italian air base by mistake. The Italians were angry and suspected us of being terrorists, because civil unrest, riots and general strikes were a major worry. It was after hours, and no one nearby could speak English. They took us to a small interrogation room with one light over a desk, and there we waited until English speakers could return from their off base homes.
They were furious and wouldn’t believe us. They muttered things about international incidents and prison. We were nervous, but we stayed composed and gave them our IDs. One man left the room, and we and our interrogators stared at each other for what seemed like hours.
The man returned, and they took us to our airplane. We removed every item in it and put it on the tarmac. Men searched through everything as they looked for something incriminating. Sometime after midnight, they made us reload the airplane, dumped us outside of the base and told us to remove our plane after sun rise.
Even at that late hour, hordes of little old ladies tried to out argue each other and persuade us to stay at their hotels. Someone on the base had probably called them.
We were minor celebraties when we returned to our base several days later. After we landed, the pilot kissed the ground and said he hadn’t expected us to return alive.
Years later, the story took an odd twist. Our pilot, a captain from New Jersey became a doctor and moved to Omaha. He conducted abortions and was a friend of the Kansas abortion doctor who was murdered. He also sued Nebraska over a partial birth abortion law and won in the Supreme Court. I think the case was Stenberg v Carhart.
We visited about old times and how we were probably the only troops of the era to be detained on an Italian air base.
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By: James on July 6, 2010
at 7:15 AM
Woohoo!!! Score one for the preacher! Great Story Jim!
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By: Greytdog on July 6, 2010
at 6:43 AM
Craig –
It is really a hoot having had a lot of varied experiences, isn’t it? It sounds like you have done a lot of things. When you think back, sometimes it is a wonder one lives very long at all.
I had mentioned the preacher and the lord’s burden.
Back in the ‘seventies, I was working in the West Virginia coal mines during the summers to make money for the fall term. One particular summer I “lucked out” and got work out in the sun instead of underground, and ended up working for one of those federal government projects designed to produce cheap housing (affordable, they called it) for us ignorant Hillbillies.
We all had a good time, mostly hootin’ and hollerin’ and drinkin’ on the job – as attended many of the “projects” of those days. I say all – I meant all except one – a preacher-fella, whose name escapes me right now – who was a serious man, a little older than we – perhaps forty-five or so. Most of us tried to show a little respect – even I did – of course, that was before I had read much Hitchens.
However, this one ol’ boy rode the Preacher mercilessly – he would swear the awfullest oaths, discuss in detail his own latest perversions, and failing to get a rise out of Preacher, he would address him personally and accuse HIM of perversions.
One fine summer day, it was waxing about 95 degrees. We had just framed one of our masterpieces and were now roofing in the hot summertime southern West Virginia sun. Not a breath of wind. Brilliant sun boiling off the black roof. Sweat running down your nose and down the crack of your rump. Hundred-pound shingle bundles, or so it seemed, to carry up the ladder. Dirt and grit stuck to your neck and shoulders and no relief in sight.
And Ol’ Boy was in fine form. He started by criticising preachers in general, climbed up to the bishop, roundly excoriated the pope, the disciples and then went straight for the big guy himself – with barely a non-swear word in the whole soliloquy. Even the rest of the good-time crew was asking – no begging – him to Just Shut Up.
Gradually I became aware of a low groan beside me, slowly increasing in pitch and intensity. It was Preacher. He was looking down at his right hand, and the roofing hatchet therein.
I said, “Hey, preacher – you OK? Listen, don’t pay any mind to him; he’s crazy AND stupid. Are you listening to me?”
No answer. The Preacher slowly straightened up, and making some kind of unearthly animal sound, slowly began to walk to the ladder, that goddamned hatchet in his hand, and his eye on Ol’ Boy.
“Buddy, you better run!” somebody yelled. Ol’ Boy dropped his bundle of shingles, and down the driveway he went, picking up speed, Preacher in pursuit.
Down Route 99 they went, the further the faster. Preacher may have been old, but he was NOT slow, and it became clear he was gaining on Ol’ Boy, screaming like a madman – which I guess he was – in no discernable language any of us had ever heard. We just stood there in the blistering heat, mouths agape.
Finally it was apparent to Ol’ Boy that the preacher was going to catch him and he lept off the side of the road into a multiflora rose swamp, immediately sinking up to his knees in the wet mud, screaming “Don’t kill me!” For god’s sake, Don’t kill me!” with Preacher still coming on, hatchet above his head.
The pair had considerable difficulty making any headway in the deep mud; after a bit of wading in the cold water, Preacher just stopped, looked around, then looked at the hatchet and the man hunkered under a huge rose bush, completely freaked out, as we used to say. He then looked back at us and slowly turned around in the mud and gradually made his way back to Route 99 and trudged about two hundred yards back to the construction site.
He slowly climbed the ladder, took a handful of roofing nails, and started nailing shingles – exactly where he had left off.
I just looked at him, but for a full hour he never said a word. Finally he put his hatchet down, looked straight down at the black roofing underneath us and said, “You know, Jim, sometimes the lord’s burden is more than a man can bear.”
It was never mentioned again.
Ol’ boy had gone through a couple of rose bushes and looked the worse for wear. Next day – and then the next – he never showed up for work. I haven’t the slightest idea what ever happened to him, but I would say he is a little more careful these days.
Jim
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By: pfesser53 on July 6, 2010
at 5:20 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Does anybody know what Werner is up to these days? I’m not sure if that was all of his blog name but he is a real sweetheart – a prince among men. The last I heard he was doing a really big translations job of some kind from German to English or vice versa.
I wish he would poke his head in again once in a while.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 6, 2010
at 12:58 AM
Donna ..IF you were thinking it was me, I’ve been off internet for over past 24 hours. Been here too long and appreciate gracious members here to screw this site up.
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By: Craig on July 5, 2010
at 8:55 PM
yup. been so long..,.. i echoed, lol.
gramma rock
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By: gramma rock on July 5, 2010
at 6:20 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and gramma rock,
gramma rock, it’s good to hear from you again!!!!! It’s been a while. Don’t be a stranger.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 5, 2010
at 12:57 PM
sarah……
about those guns firing in the air….
indigenous people learned that from the euro-immigrants and colonialists.
the litteral translation of the cherokee words for christmas is ‘day they shoot the guns’. the cherokee language is spoken on both sides of the rio grande. when andrew jackson, the devil himself, forced the relocation of the cherokee, in violation of an order by the supreme court of the usa, the cherokee language was already being spoken in parts of oklahoma, texas and mexico because there had been a migration some years earlier when the ‘immigrants’ with the pushy attitudes from the other side of the big atlantic pond started over running the land.
gramma rock
the cherokee gramma in chippewa country
may dway aush home’s’kool
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By: Anonymous on July 5, 2010
at 10:33 AM
oh yeah. I forgot about that – my “near-death” experience. huh. well Margaret I do hope all is well with you and Helen. . . it has been awhile but hey! you ladies have families and lives too, so no surprise that your posts are scattered hither and yon. . .
I agree though – that Matthew would have posted something on the blog to let everyone know and to close down the blog. . .
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By: Greytdog on July 5, 2010
at 10:00 AM
sarah…..
about those guns firing in the air….
they learned that from the european ‘immigrants.’ the litteral translation of the words for christmas in the cherokee language is ‘day they shoot the guns’. the cherokee language is spoken on both sides of the rio grande. when andrew jackson, the devil himself, forced the removal of the cherokee people to oklahoma, in violation of an order by the supreme court, the cherokee language was already spoken there in parts of texas, oklahoma and mexico because years before there had been a migration of ndn people to the west when the south was being over run by ill-mannered ‘euro-immigrants’ from the other side of the big atlantic pond.
gramma rock (the cherokee gramma in chippewa country)
may dway aush home’s’kool
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By: gramma rock on July 5, 2010
at 9:56 AM
Wow. That was some troll storm last night.
Helen, prove them wrong!!!
🙂
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By: Stacey on July 5, 2010
at 9:03 AM
good morning, all–hope you had a great 4th. Unfortunate that there are people whose sense of humor was stuck back in “Do you have Prince Albert in a can?”
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By: Donna on July 5, 2010
at 8:09 AM
Why do Mexicans have to fire their guns into the air on the 4th of July and on New Year’s? It is just not right.
It scares me and it is not safe. Really.
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By: Sarah on July 4, 2010
at 9:58 PM
After nearly 1500 comments, you kind of expect it, don’t you?
Helen lives….and Helen rock!!
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By: Thomas on July 4, 2010
at 9:55 PM
Hold on to your hats folks. Looks like the fireworks have brought out the trolls tonight.
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By: Gretchen R. on July 4, 2010
at 9:52 PM
Seek medical attention for an erection lasting more than four hours.
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By: JP on July 4, 2010
at 9:50 PM
You people need to just stop!
Helen is not dead.
Get a life!
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By: Hannah on July 4, 2010
at 9:48 PM
I made sweet love to her an hour ago, but she died two hours ago.
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By: Harold on July 4, 2010
at 9:44 PM
We didn’t even know she was sick!
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By: Gregg on July 4, 2010
at 9:41 PM
She died of a nose bleed. I mean it. Really.
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By: MJT on July 4, 2010
at 9:31 PM
Oh how sad!
I feel so sorry for her family.
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By: Tammie on July 4, 2010
at 9:23 PM
Poor Margaret!!!
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By: Barbara Simpson on July 4, 2010
at 9:20 PM
Don’t be an idiot. This was a “prank” by a particularly noxious troll.
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By: Donna on July 4, 2010
at 8:08 PM
Sorry to hear about Helen.
She was a great writer.
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By: TLC on July 4, 2010
at 8:07 PM
exactly. There are people that tasteless and useless that they think it’s funny to post that sort of thing.
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By: Donna on July 4, 2010
at 7:51 PM
Probably same fool that killed off Greytdog last year.
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By: Mary M. on July 4, 2010
at 7:43 PM
Happy Fourth of July, everybody!
Independence Day 234 years ago was a time of war. Even today, as we celebrate that declaration, we are at war. In between, there has been a LOT of bloodshed. Lots of lives have been poured out for us to be where we are today. Many were noble and with pure intentions. Some were merely in the “wrong/right place at the wrong/right time” in history. Fate or destiny – whatever philosophy you prefer. A few in places of influence tilted the scales in their favor, shaping events for personal gain.
History records the details from every perspective. Political ideology is irrelevant. Religious persuasion is insignificant. Intellectual and educational level are immaterial.
What does matter is when do we consider it enough? What is the threshold that we each can bear? Can independence ever truly be acheived from any imperialist power? What was a bold and heroic act of sacrifice for self-rule, justice, and liberty in birthing a new nation, became the first enabling step to us becoming that very same dominant imperialist power that exploited and oppressed our forefathers. Can we turn it back?
Corporate sponsored government doesn’t work for people or the Earth. We still need to keep up the fight for Liberty and Justice for all PEOPLE – not for companies. There is still a long way to go. I pray the Almighty will give us strength and show us where we can best be utilized for good.
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By: poolman on July 4, 2010
at 6:38 PM
Hi Congenieal Gang and Donna,
I think you are correct, Donna. This has all the earmarks of a ‘troll trick’, a three month’s late April Fool’s prank with no human feelings whatsover.
Helen’s surname is not Philpot. That is her ‘nom-de-plume’ or ‘pseudonym’.
As we all know, this is not the first cowardly phony to show up here, nor will it be the last.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 4, 2010
at 6:26 PM
Oh my…I hope this isn’t true. It has been a while since she posted anything new.
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By: Sandra on July 4, 2010
at 6:25 PM
I believe that, if Helen passed away, the blog either would be down or there would be a message from Matthew or Margaret. I therefore believe that this is a “joke” of the worst sort, by someone with absolutely no taste, class, or decency.
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By: Donna on July 4, 2010
at 4:36 PM
Helen Philpot passed away on Friday, June 18th after a brief illness.
She was an incredible lady and will be greatly missed by all who knew and loved her.
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By: Sad in Austin on July 4, 2010
at 3:27 PM
–uh-oh, double-post, sorry/apologies !!
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By: Buttons44 on July 4, 2010
at 12:04 PM
“….bleak facts spell out one irrefutable commandment: Go get yours, before it’s too late.”
–The last tuna nigiri on Earth Check If looking for something to read…….!!!! (uh, Poolman, thinking perhaps relates to your July03 to Craig , or food thought in similar vein….)
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/07/02/notes070210.DTL&nl=fix#ixzz0sjjl5gVj
The last tuna nigiri on Earth
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/07/02/notes070210.DTL&type=printable
Wishing all a glorious 4th, hoping for a reset button as well but kinda am way too pragmatically inclined to figure coming , stil better to at very least “wish” for !!!
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By: Buttons44 on July 4, 2010
at 12:03 PM
“….bleak facts spell out one irrefutable commandment: Go get yours, before it’s too late.”
–The last tuna nigiri on Earth Check If looking for something to read…….!!!! (uh, Poolman, thinking perhaps relates to your July03 to Craig , or food/mind thought in similar vein….)
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/07/02/notes070210.DTL&nl=fix#ixzz0sjjl5gVj
The last tuna nigiri on Earth
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/07/02/notes070210.DTL&type=printable
Wishing all a glorious 4th, hoping for a reset button as well but kinda am way too pragmatically inclined to figure coming , stil better to at very least “wish” for !!!
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By: Buttons44 on July 4, 2010
at 12:02 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, lori and Juneau Joe,
Thanks for the heads up, lori.
Juneau Joe, I’m so sorry I left you off the list of my favorite gentlemen. You are one of the best!!!!!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 4, 2010
at 11:45 AM
This started my morning off with a chuckle!
Dailykos: by Silly Rabbit
Sat Jul 03
As you’ve probably known since childhood, 234 years ago today we declared our independence from England.
But until this week, none of us could have known that:
In October 2001, then-Illinois State Senator/current first female President of the United States Barack Obama took us to war in Afghanistan:
We all make mistakes but you have to admit Michael Steele’s latest attempt to rewrite history was a dosey! LOL
Auntie Jean don’t forget Juneau Joe!
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By: lori on July 4, 2010
at 5:32 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I hope everyone had a safe, fun filled 4th of July. We did.
At many gatherings of family and friends for celebrations, (and here on M&H’s porch too!), it is not uncommon for people to drift into groups for conservations about the things they have in common. Also, often the men gather in the living room for ‘guy talk’ and the women in the kitchen for ‘girl talk’. It is reminiscent of when the boys were kids and built a clubhouse with a sign “No Girlz Allowed!” That is an important stage of development, the so-called male bonding period and a rite of passage into adulthood. The same could be said of young girls in their attitudes toward boys. With a little maturity, usually both sexes sooner or later get together for joint discussions and festivities.
This is quite similar to what went on during the age of Voltaire in Paris in the Salons of ladies who helped shape the history of France. Two extraordinary ones are Anne Tèrèsa de Courcelles, Marquise de Lambert and Gabrielle Émilie, Marquise du Châtelet. These were only two of the cultured, civilized and gracious ladies who were influential in shaping the literary, political and even scientific thinking of the times. You might want to Google them and research them even further. Interesting gals.
Out of the thousands or more blogs abounding these days on the inter-net, Margaret and Helen’s blog have a rather enduring track record. With hits approaching 3 ½ million, each of the readers and contributors here have family, friends, and colleagues to talk to. I think possibly M&H’s loyal fans could help make this place a political force to be reckoned with. It is one of many fine sources of information and thoughtful opinion. Part of their appeal is that M&H have never placed any restrictions whatsoever on the length or content of the comments other than two quite offensive words. That’s it.
To my knowledge, as one of the regular Old Timers from almost the beginning here; jsri, Poolman and vgman are about the only true gentlemen I can remember who have ever even acknowledged Margaret and Helen’s hospitality; to say nothing of the good manners or courtesy to thank them, let alone praise the wit and wisdom of their posts.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 4, 2010
at 12:26 AM
THANK YOU JAMES.
Poolman,
Aging…friends and family deaths and the unexpected
have a way of reminding one, of one’s immortality.
I ask that you pray for my dear friend Nancy.
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By: Craig on July 3, 2010
at 8:35 PM
I am pleased you enjoyed the read poolman. 😉
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By: lori on July 3, 2010
at 6:32 PM
PFessor53, Wow!! I’m glad James Taylor made good. He is one of my favorite singers.
The only comparable thing I can share is Jay and The American’s Air Force basic training TI sold my wife and me a car when we were stationed in England.
Poolman, since you asked, could you pray for the friends family, and soul of the 56 year old man who Alaskapi told us died of a heart attack, the same for Craig’s high school friend, the girl who died on a bridge a mile and a half from our home last week, and for unknown tragic victims?
I’m checking out. Stormy weather is coming late tonight through Monday, and I like to chase storms and lightning. Good times ahead.
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By: James on July 3, 2010
at 3:56 PM
Craig,
Look at it this way. When God set this operating system up, it was perfect in everyway imaginable. He said to man, “Here you go. It’s all yours son. It’s good. Go and have fun. Enjoy. Everything runs fine, but let me show you this one feature.”
This red button here destroys the whole shebang. If you push it, it’s all gonna die. It’s not immediate, but you’ve lit the fuse. As a safety feature, there’s this reset. If for some reason you hit the red, it will be devastating. But if you hit this reset, all will not be lost. I can restore anything I choose. Please be careful of this. I love you and this whole place. Enjoy all the pie you want. I’ll be back to commune soon.
There is a reset. It is immediate now as it was then in God’s time, but lingers in our unspun realm. Shalom.
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By: poolman on July 3, 2010
at 3:23 PM
Right now we are sponsoring the Lite the Fire ministry at our church in Phoenix. This is a ministry that travels church-to-church in Arizona and has had continual prayer going on for almost three years now. Many of us volunteer and at least one person is always praying during any given time in the 24 hour day.
I mention this because even though I pray for all who come here and specifically when situations arise that call for prayer, I include them in my daily devotional. This ministry places the requests before many for continual petition. So, if anyone has specific prayer requests they want agreement for, please let me know or they can be emailed to the ministry from the link I provided.
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By: poolman on July 3, 2010
at 1:19 PM
Lori, that was an amusing article in Huffpo. I followed some of the links from there. Just amazing how many misconceptions and misinterpretations exist on all sides of that fence. Funny stuff.
Bottom line, if God exists, science WILL prove it. I see that we are getting closer and closer to that point, especially after my recent searches into the new scientific discoveries made available by today’s technology. These new found evidences are dividing the scientific communities. Many are adjusting and changing theories to include the new findings. I find it extremely exciting and also entertaining.
For me, science would have to prove God and the supernatural does NOT exist. They haven’t come close, though many have tried. Afterall, if logic ruled the day, we’d all be better off believing that God was. Logically, if we were wrong in that faith – no big deal. But if we denied God’s existence and then found out we were wrong – ruh-ohh! 😉
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By: poolman on July 3, 2010
at 12:56 PM
Craig-
I am so sorry for the loss of your high-school friend.
Willingness to take the life of another for a few baubles , a car, perception of insult, a drunken/drugged lark, whatever … none make sense, none excuse.
I am glad likely suspects were arrested rapidly that they may not continue to harm…
The person who murdered my nephew a year ago managed to murder 2 more people in the weeks the police hunted for him…
There is no good ending to these stories- only that we can find those who do such things and stop them.
My thoughts are with you and all who called this woman family, friend, and neighbor.
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By: alaskapi on July 3, 2010
at 11:24 AM
James –
True story: I worked with an obstetrician in the late ‘seventies – a Dr. Bonney. He was a true southern patrician who wore a bow tie and spoke like the late Senator Byrd.
We were discussing music one day and he said, “When I was in North Carolina, my wife and I used to have dinner occasionally at Dean Taylor’s house (Dean as in The Dean). He had a ten, maybe -twelve year-old son who would come in after dinner and play music for us sometimes. He was pretty good, too, but he had a lot of mental problems and was in and out of institutions. I heard he got straightened out and did very well for himself later on.”
I just sat there with my mouth open…”His name wasn’t JAMES TAYLOR, was it?”
“Why, yes, I believe that was his name, James.”
“Yes sir – You might say he did very well for himself. Very well indeed.”
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 3, 2010
at 10:23 AM
Greytdog, thanks for posting that. It is interesting. I think you were the one who said something about writing a book last summer. Were you the one? If so, I’d still like to buy a copy if you ever do it.
PFessor53.
Two days ago, a neighbor girl who would have been one of my wife’s students next fall was riding her bike on a bridge when she suddenly swerved in front of a pickup. Now she is dead. Her father died of cancer earlier this year. Its hard to imagine how the poor friends and families of these people are suffering.
I liked “Fire and Rain” too. If I recall correctly, James Taylor wrote the song when he was recovering from an emotional break down after his band the Flying Machine split up. It got a lot of local play after much of a Kansas college basketball team died in a plane crash.
Emotional blunting was a common problem among combat soldiers. “It don’t mean nothing” was short- hand for “worry about it later. We have a job to do.” One of the largest numbers of casualities during WW11 in the Pacific was due to emotional breakdowns. It happens in all wars, and many people who never wore a uniform also must recover from the effects of trauma.
I attended a church related college which didn’t allow smoking, drinking, or dancing.
One night during the Christmas program, a friend and I sat in a dark room with a blanket under the door as we emptied a bottle of wine. We thought we were revolutionaries.
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By: James on July 3, 2010
at 9:36 AM
Thanks all,
Jim,
AS for looking for Nancy..as we realize our mortality, I had wanted to reach out and talk. See how life had been treating her and so on. If someone wants to find me its not that hard. Nancy evidently worked at one of the largest aircraft plants in Fort Worth.
I probably have three to four friends who probably knew her but didn’t put the two of us together.
At least they got the two killers who did it. But for a few pieces of Jewelry? Nancy was not wealthy and any jewelry came from her mom since due to their ages, her parents would be dead and she was an only child.
As she did believe in Edgar Cayce and had a firm belief in her religion ,Episcopal, I’m sure she is at peace.
A real “friend” and confidant. I already missed her
now I can pray for her.
That makes two of my high school friends who were murdered. The other one was a male friend of mine who provided the wheels for my first date.
He at age 37 had a blind date. He was to pick this woman up at her home one afternoon. She lived near Lake Worth and had two children. It was summer time. When he go to the house the murderer had killed the entire family and and waited for Bruce to enter. Bruce was stabbed to death and then had his car stolen. The man was pulled over in Bruce’s car in Kansas..and it was over. That man met his end on Death row in Texas. I’m sure these last two, with their record ..at least one of these fine fellows will meet the same fate.
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By: Craig on July 3, 2010
at 9:13 AM
lori –
Now you have me curious. What is “tarra?”
James –
I have a lot of stories from the Viet vets. Pretty wild stuff. A friend told me he used to sit in his hooch and listen to “Fire and Rain” by James Taylor over and over, since that was all he saw there.
On drugs: A buddy of mine decided to make some homemade acid. I had heard it went badly and I saw him years later, applying for disability. He was really burned out and would wait for a full five seconds before responding to any question. Don’t know what happened to him, but whatever it was, it was permanent.
More drug stuff: When I started college I was pretty homesick and far from home and I bought some xmas lights to put around my window that winter, to remind me of home. I came home one night and they were gone. Now these things really meant a lot to me – I walked in and my roomie was strung out on acid, sitting in the floor in the dark, looking at each light one at a time. He didn’t see me come in and I was so pissed that he had messed with my lights that I unplugged them. He paused for about five seconds and began to yell, “OH NO! I’m dead!”
I turned on the lights and said, “You sonofabitch, if you mess with my lights again I’ll kill you twice!”
I didn’t know about messing with people on acid at that point; I got a lot more mellow as time went on, though. Great times…
Craig –
Sorry about your friend. I don’t know if this social networking is a good thing or bad. I was on Facebook for one day and a girl from my high school tried to contact me to “get together.” I delete the account. It’s just too easy for people to find you. I google my name about once a month to see if I’m still anonymous. Fortunately there is a big picture site that has my name in its URL and nearly all google searches go there. Kind of a smoke screen. I’m sure glad of that; I need it…
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 3, 2010
at 8:26 AM
A very good visual look at the average weekly food consumption of families around the world
http://bit.ly/bisCCx
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By: Greytdog on July 3, 2010
at 8:05 AM
The only thing worse than Republican leadership in my opinion is the Democratic leadership. Both should be fired.
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By: James on July 3, 2010
at 7:37 AM
Craig, I’m sorry the tragedy happened. I wish I could write something that made it less painful, but I can’t. It is horrible.
PFessor53, I like your motorcycle story. My father drove an early version of a Harley to and from college. It had a side car.
Yes, troops were creative smugglers. Imagining the admiral standing beside a stash made me laugh. Oh, the irony! Something like that must have happened many times.
On one base, a corpsman and one who worked in pharmacy decided to invent their own drug. It worked pretty well, and they sold some to the locals. It slowed their perception of time, and they claimed to be able to watch grass grow.
However, it had some side effects. One could tell who was taking the drug by the yellow color of his skin. Drug users had to take prescribed drugs to countermand the effects of an illicit drug. No one turned any one in, but the doctors enjoyed the irony.
We lived in six man quansit huts. One night, the brains behind the drug production woke screaming “I’m blind!!” The only room mate there at the time, shined a flashlight in his eyes and saw only white. The man’s eyes had rolled up into his head. Then, the room mate freaked out.
After the guy was able to see again, he ran to the latrine and spent most of the rest of the night chinning himself over a toilet. He was afraid he would die if he fell asleep. And so ended the episode of the hospital-made illicit drug.
The poor man enlisted with three of his friends. They died. He lived. He was only 19, and wanted to join them. He talked about it constantly because he had let them down by living.
He was a terrific artist. He could draw anything. One of my favorites was of Winston Churchhill giving the finger. He was a good mimic and had FDR’s voice down pat. He created skits with politicians’ voices. One time, he ran into a room with a valise, dropped it by someone and fled. He was re enacting an assination attempt on Hitler.
I never did drugs or smoked. My drug of choice was vodka and orange juice. I loved getting my teeth and tongue numb.
One small base in Vietnam had a problem with soldiers getting hurt in fast draw contests. The commander locked most of the weapons in a building. The man with the key was in town when the Viet Cong attacked, and the troops had a devil of a time breaking the door down.
Some of the bravest soldiers were little guys a high school student might bully. They were called tunnel rats and used their small size to invade enemy tunnels which were often booby trapped with poisonous snakes, spikes, waiting soldiers, etc.
One man searched the body of a Viet Cong soldier he had just killed. He found family pictures, photos of a wife or girl friend, and a letter with lips drawn with lipstick. He was emotionally shaken because for the first time it occured the enemy was just like him.
One veteran could not hold his new born baby because the Viet Cong sometimes put small babies by the side of the road. They were booby traps and when the man’s friend picked up an apparently abandoned baby, both blew up.
You might want to scroll by this if you have suffered through this much of my post. It is my graphic illustration of what it means to carry unseen scars.
” The truck is on fire
as smoke rises above
I can’t stop your screams
’cause you’re down below; truck’s on top
My therapist said not to see you no more
She said you’re like a disease
without any cure
She said I’m so obsessed
that I’ve become a bore
Ah, but you’re so pretty
Slammed your hand inside my door
Moved out of the house
so you slid under the door
I locked you out
You walked in through the wall
I saw you burning next to me
when I thought I was alone
You’re driving me crazy”
Why won’t you leave me alone”
Sometimes I wonder if we should legalize marajuana. Then, it could be regulated and taxed.
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By: James on July 3, 2010
at 7:25 AM
Did u c this poolman? I am not editorializing on it, LOl I just came across it and thought you might enjoy the read.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/clay-naff/how-science-can-solve-the_b_629104.html
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By: lori on July 3, 2010
at 6:59 AM
Michael Steele The gift that keeps on giving. I love that man.. LOL
Two of the biggest wastes of money and time… “the war on drugs and “tarra”!
Have fun everyone!
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By: lori on July 3, 2010
at 6:36 AM
Craig, I’m sorry to hear about your friend.
“Why do bad things happen to good people?”
It rains on the good and the wicked. This is not Utopia or Heaven. Life has its ups and downs for everyone. We have no guarantees here, except that it will be difficult and we will eventually all physically die. Pretty grim, but everyone and everything that lives in this realm goes there.
The evil that causes ordinary people to act wickedly and destructively has been around since the fall of man. Unless a person is brought up with values and a respect for life and others, it is difficult for that person to reflect those ideals, let alone pass those qualities on to the next generation.
Unfortunately, with the breakup of the family and lack of good male role models has a great impact on the actions and the hearts of people today. Thankfully, those who did this are behind bars. We can put them away forever to keep them from terrorizing society, but we cannot change their heart or instill values in them. That has to be a choice – a decision to change from within.
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By: poolman on July 3, 2010
at 12:45 AM
“Anonymous” PFesser53 at 8:33pm,
I’ve been advocating for marijuana’s legalization, or at minimum decriminalization, since the seventies. I have lost friends to drunk drivers over the years, but never to one who was stoned. Pot is so much less harmful than alcohol, that it is ridiculous to have the laws we do. Alcohol consumption can kill, whereas pot cannot. At least some areas of the country have gotten on the bandwagon and are making it legal for small amounts.
Between the many uses for hemp and the medicinal properties of marijuana, we have sided with ignorance for keeping it illegal. Of course, we generally work both sides of the drug trade, so it makes it really hard to change drug laws in America. Legalization of marijuana was the most popular topic of discussion on the pre-White House website, I believe it was we are the change dot com. I think there is a popular concensus to legalize and tax it. I’d vote for that. I’m really surprised that hasn’t happened yet.
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By: poolman on July 3, 2010
at 12:12 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Chrystal on July 2, 2010
at 2:45 PM,
Chrystal, I enjoyed reading about your experience in Singapore. It sounds very much like ours. Naturally, I have stories about that fascinating city. Maybe I’ll get to it later.
However, after a busy day and reading today’s M&H comments, I’m feeling a bit like I did a week or so ago when our son in PA called.
Our daughter-in-law (is it OK to say DIL in blog speak?) and the kids were off for a week at a baseball tournament. He was all alone and friendless and wanted to talk. My husband had gone to the market a mile away to get his morning paper and I had just gotten out of the shower. I told him I was stark naked, with no teeth, (my partials were in a container on the counter) and no makeup. Could I call him back?
He laughed and said he had a mental vision of my state of affairs on the phone and launched into his saga of current events with their family. A half hour or so later, my husband came in so I could hand the phone over to him and get some clothes on. Sheesh!
Now that I am dressed and reasonable presentable once again, I wish all of you here a Happy 4th of July weekend. Enjoy everything we have to be grateful for here in our beautiful country.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 3, 2010
at 12:08 AM
Craig, I am so sorry about your friend. I hope whoever perpetrated this crime will be brought to justice.
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By: Greytdog on July 2, 2010
at 11:56 PM
Why do bad things happen to good people?
I was notified tonight by my brother a lady whom I had been looking for in Facebook and other means was murdered this past Tuesday.
Nancy was truly a beautiful lady with whom I had been co-workers in college and platonic friends. I last saw her some 35 years ago a week before my wedding. She had been in a tragic and horrible car wreck during high school and was left severely facially maimed. She was still a beautiful lady. She discussed her out of body experiences during her near death experience. She was also an avid reader of Edgar Cayce.
She had a great laugh and was a great friend with whom I confided. I wish that I could have had one more talk with her and discussed the years that have past us by.
FORT WORTH — Police have released the names of the two men accused in a violent crime spree that included the shooting death of a woman in Godley and the wounding of a delivery truck driver in Fort Worth.
Mark Anthony Soliz, 28, and Jose Clemente Ramos, 26, were arrested Tuesday evening in Fort Worth. Police said they did not immediately identify them because they needed time to sort out the cases.
Both Soliz and Ramos were in the Mansfield Jail on Friday, facing multiple charges that included one count of capital murder for each man, with bail set at $2 million each on that charge.
Ramos also faces an aggravated robbery charge out of Fort Worth and a parole violation out of Austin. Soliz faces robbery, theft, drug, unlawful possession of a firearm and evading arrest charges in addition to the capital murder charge. Total bail for Ramos was set at $2.2 million, and for Soliz, more than $2.24 million.
Nancy Weatherly, 61, was found dead early Wednesday in her home in the 14000 block of Farm Road 2331 North in Godley.
Johnson County sheriff’s deputies went to the home after being alerted by Fort Worth police, who had been questioning suspects in Fort Worth shootings.
Detectives said they believe that Weatherly was killed Tuesday afternoon and that robbery was the motive. Her jewelry was found that day in the possession of the two suspects, police said.
Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/07/02/2310428/police-release-names-of-suspects.html?qwxq=1535966&pageNum=2&mi_pluck_action=page_nav#Comments_Container#ixzz0saLMgkVL
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By: Craig on July 2, 2010
at 9:22 PM
poolman –
I just finished “Marijuana is Safer; so Why are we Driving People to Drink?” I thought I was pretty aware of all the arguments for legalization, but this book so thoroughly made the case that it should be required reading for anyone with a serious opinion on the matter.
Of course, I wouldn’t dare touch the stuff now, since it would mean my license; but I really hope the country can shed this Reagan-era craziness and legalize marihuana. Surely anyone can see what a failure the “drug war” has been.
It’s interesting to talk to law enforcement types, though. Of course legalization would gore their ox, so they immediately truck out the “kids” argument. Gimme a break.
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By: Anonymous on July 2, 2010
at 8:33 PM
PFesser53,
I’ve participated and been privy to some very intricate stashology, but never heavy metal. I also was very aware of how much drugs were a huge part of that whole conflict and time.
Grateful I was, the draft ended in ’73 and I graduated HS in ’75. I’ve have known a lot of vets of that war. Even my father didn’t escape that duty. I don’t know any living or that have passed that don’t carry scars from those experiences. Some are just able to contain it better.
Know war, no peace – No war, know peace.
I hope all who have been in battle can know peace. It comes from within and flows without. I pray healing over those whose hearts are hurting still.
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By: poolman on July 2, 2010
at 5:20 PM
Aunt Jean,
Thanks for your post about going up the River in China. Interesting read. You and your husband have been so fortunate to travel so extensively in the far east and now live in Hawaii. Also glad to hear he is doing well.
I accompanied my husband on a short trip to Singapore back in 97. Spent a week there while he was attending a marketing meeting. Beautiful City/State. However a little paranoid about picture taking.
We were on an air tour of the “island”country and upon landing, we had to show them everything that we had filmed as to assure them we were not showing any “state” secrets. We visited there about three weeks before the kid who had spray painted cars was to be caned. With that as a back drop we visited the usual tourist places,gardens, food markets etc.
Did go to the Raffles hotel and had a Singapore Sling drink. Over priced, but I can say we did it. Then went out and wanted to have my pic taken with fancy dressed turban adorned doorman but he wanted $$,so I said no thanks, went across street and took his picture anyway. The city/state is “very” clean and most culturally broad based. I guess I would call it the Paris of the Orient.
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By: Chrystal on July 2, 2010
at 2:45 PM
Churning out more of the world’s “Fair and Balanced” propaganda, “The Rupert Murdoch chain has been used extensively to publish false intelligence from the Israelis and occasionally from the British government,…”
“We distort, you divide” 😉
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By: poolman on July 2, 2010
at 2:03 PM
Republican Worldview: It’s All Good
“As for the ideology in Boehner’s modified, limited clarification, look at that three-word phrase “plugged the holes.” There you have the party’s current philosophy in a nutshell: Just chew up a wad of gum, stick it into the crack where water is leaking, and whistle contentedly as you stroll away.” Love it. Or put your index fingers in your ears and say, “La-la-la-la-la, I can’t hear you, la-la-la-la-la…”
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By: poolman on July 2, 2010
at 1:37 PM
Happy Friday! Another perfect pirouette mastered by mother Earth as the sun reveals the splendidly vivid hues and wondrous textures, tantilizing our senses and renewing our spirit, awakening our collective conscience to this universal performance that we are a part. Breathe it in. I speak peace to all who come here.
For you science types who are used to the kind of instructor with tons of intellect but little personality – one who could put you to sleep with the “enthusiasm” of their speaking style and monotony in their voice – then Dr. James Maxlow is your guy. Very smart and technically sound. The old “absent-minded’ professor comes to mind. Lacks the luster and marketable quality of Neil Adams’ presentations, however, if you need your science from a geek, this guy might be your cup of tea. You know, for those who “talk-the-talk and walk-the-walk.”
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By: poolman on July 2, 2010
at 10:54 AM
James –
When I was in college I owned a 1935 flat-head 80 Harley. It was an amazing piece of machinery – amazing that it ran at all. Gearshift on the gas tank, clutch pedal instead of on the handlebars, etc. Made it pretty tough to start on a hill, since there was no front brake, either. Basically, lift your left leg, push the clutch, pull it in gear and let the clutch out before it fell over, since your other foot was on the only brake. The spark advance was on a second twist-grip on the left handlebar; if you didn’t get it right, when you were starting the engine it would throw you over the handlebars.
But I digress. We were talking about vets. In those days I rode with Dave D., a really laid-back ex Air Force guy who had just spent a tour in Viet. He was the coolest guy you ever met. He told me that when they were coming back to the States, the Navy was of course on the lookout for drugs. Dave however had made friends with a welder on the ship and they conspired to hide some pot. It was complicated by the fact there were dogs brought on board and it was tough to hide your dope from them. Little did the Admiral, who was catching a ride also, know that the railing he was leaning on was filled with marihuana – undetectable by the dogs, since it was welded shut.
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By: PFesser53 on July 2, 2010
at 10:23 AM
Poolman check Frenchman Mountain in Las Vegas.
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By: no one's puppet on July 2, 2010
at 9:58 AM
This is a long post because with our dial up service, it takes about fifteen minutes to load this site, and time for it to reload after each post.
Donna, I didn’t mean to say Harriet Miers wouldn’t have made a good Supreme Court justice. I was referring mainly to my subjective impression of how she presented herself combined with what you rightly implied to be her thin resume. Compared to Kagen, she seemed to me like a shrinking violet. Kagen comes across to me as more dynamic with people.
Some of Kagan’s views make me nervous, and she knows how to evade, so if I was on the committee, I might not vote for her confirmation. However, that has little to do with what I think of her as a person or potential Justice. Obama has the right to choose his candidates.
I don’t remember the blogs, but Micheal Malkin’s was probably one. Conservatives were angry, and they started a letter-phone call campaign to express their displeasure. Maybe liberals were doing the same, but I don’t think they were. That is just my impression, and I could be wrong. I do remember their reaction on the Janeane Garafalo message board on which I was a moderator.
Thanks for being polite. Basically I agree with your post.
PFessor53. Thanks for your e mail address. I sent a reply, as I did to someone else who asked . We have slow dial up service, and sometimes it takes a day or so for e-mails to come and go.
I’m glad the veterans did all right. I remember reading a survey that Vietnam Era veterans were generally as or more successful than others of their generation.
Yesterday was interesting. While waiting to get a prescription for my wife, another customer said something to me, and I replied. When we both learned we were veterans of the same war, it was like meeting a lodge brother. We must have been entertaining to the other customers.
The pharmisist’s assistant turned out to be one of my wife’s former students, and she and her boss joined in. It turned into a two hour party on company time. My wife said she knew it wasn’t safe to let me out in public alone.
Thanks for your history, Craig, and for the mirror you put up for the message board.
I’ve seen the mountain which supposedly moved 50 miles. I have also been in San Francisco which is allegedly moving toward Alaska. Someone suggested that we may owe our human existence in part, to continental drift.
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By: James on July 2, 2010
at 7:33 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri on June 30, 2010 at 9:11 PM,
Thanks for the heads up about giving blood, jsri. I applaud you and your son for not only donating, but for you, running all over New England being a volunteer courier. They need all the help they can get!!! I didn’t know you could give blood if you were taking a boatload of medication. The next time either one of us has to give blood for any reason, we are going to ask, “As long as the needle is in there anyway, how about taking a pint? We can spare it.” From long experience, we have learned if you don’t see the needle comin’, you don’t feel a thing! Just look the other way.
Even at our advanced age, our driver’s licenses and wills allow organ donation. We wouldn’t be using them anyway. We have used plenty of spare parts – glasses, teeth, hearing aids and a hip – in this life. Anyone is welcome to any of our usable spare parts whenever we can spare them or are finished with them.
I hope everyone has a nice, safe and relaxing Fourth of July weekend. I don’t care to get into any controversies about who is more patriotic than who(m), fireworks or no fireworks, your house on fire, jumping to your neighbor’s roof keeping the police and fire departments busy; fingers blown off or an eye put out and frantic trips to the ER driving up health care costs and/or fast trips to the all night drug store for more Rolaids from too many hamburgers and hot dogs.
With so much grim news going on these days; the myriad of problems in the Gulf with the oil spill, the hurricane, unemployment, recession………..I think we will break out a DVD I got for Christmas that is an hysterical satire. It takes a level of sophistication to understand it without jumping to unwarranted conclusions It is ‘La Gran Scena Opera Company di New York’. It is the long time brainchild of Ira Siff, a gifted voice coach and the intermission commentator for the Metropolitan Opera Radio Broadcasts every Saturday afternoon during it’s season. The DVD does famous scenes from well-known operas with spoofs that would make Stephen Colbert proud.
You don’t have to know opera at all to appreciate the hilarious stage business. The cast includes Ira Siff as Mme. Vera Galupe-Borszkh in her Annual Farewell Recital. He sings a most convincing falsetto, as do Dame Emily Post Morddum, Tonnozita-Casseruloa (the World’s Oldest Living Diva Soprano) and Maestro Francisco Folinari-Soave-Coglioni with Miss Sylvia Bills (Beverly Sills?) as Mistress of Ceremonies. The costumes, wigs, makeup, sets and props are priceless!
At first glance, it looks like a bunch of guys in drag! But it harkens back to the days even in Greek drama when women were not allowed on the stage. They had to stay home, cook and mind the kiddies. So somebody came up with the idea of castrati to take the feminine roles.
Eunuchs had been around forever in Muslim countries and Christian Europe. (Remember, before the Reformation, The Roman Catholic Church was about the only organized religious game in town.) Even in those days, surgeons were quite skilled in nip and tuck techniques.
Eunuchs were especially useful as servants in harems where there could be 100 or more wives. The master couldn’t get around to serving all the ladies as frequently as he might have liked, so some of the wives got lonely from time to time.
Depending on the age and circumstances of the boys at the time of the surgical procedure, some of them were able to function sexually, even though not able to reproduce.
Boy sopranos who showed promise in church choirs were encouraged to continue their careers on the stage in choruses or operas as castrati. I somehow doubt if a pre-pubescent boy would voluntarily submit to such a decision however, if he really knew what they were up to. This continued well into the late eighteenth century. The name, Farinelli, ‘Il Castrato’ comes to mind. He was made famous in many of George Frederic Handel’s operas. (Not the ‘Messiah’ though.)
Today, with the liberated women allowed on the stage, many of the former castrati roles are sung by mezzo-sopranos or an occasional male countertenor with a high fach.
Happy 4th of July, everyone!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
.
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on July 2, 2010
at 2:28 AM
I don’t know, no one’s puppet. Texas was regarding the history book debacle. Only 50 miles? There’s Heart Mountain in Wyoming that moved 62 miles in 30 minutes. What’s 50 miles over millions of years? Or are you talking recently? Like just this past February in Chile, the entire city of Concepcion moved at least 10 feet to the west, and it shifted other parts of South America as far apart as the Falkland Islands and Fortaleza, Brazil, slowing the earth’s rotation and shifting it on its axis. First results indicate that the rotational speed of Earth has become marginally slower and days have become longer by 0.3 microseconds.
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By: poolman on July 2, 2010
at 1:38 AM
Sorry, I gave you wrong info, it moved fifty miles, not five hundred.
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By: no one's puppet on July 2, 2010
at 12:45 AM
Not Texas, second guess?
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By: no one's puppet on July 2, 2010
at 12:40 AM
Texas. About those books you’re tweeking. What happens to a society that cannot distinguish between reality and illusion?
7.0 quake in Haiti January 12th
5.9 quake in Haiti January 20th
8.8 quake in Chile February 27
Feb report – fissures in the Gulf
6.6 quake in Chile March 5th
6.7 quake in Chile March 16th
7.2 quake in Mexico April 4th
Deepwater Horizon blew April 20
More fissures discovered in Gulf
5.7 quake SoCal June 15th
Fissures in Gulf spewing methane
6.2 quake in Oaxaca, Mexico June 30th
37 significant earthquakes this year, so far.
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By: poolman on July 2, 2010
at 12:20 AM
I can one up you poolman, here is your challenge find the mountain, which used to be in Arizona, but moved 500 miles.
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By: no one's puppet on July 1, 2010
at 11:20 PM
Warning: Long post…Warning!
Sorry, 31 inches was too small. “The quake’s maximum ground displacements of up to 3 meters (10 feet) actually occurred well south of where the UAVSAR measurements stop at the Mexican border. However, these displacements were measured by JPL geophysicist Eric Fielding using synthetic aperture radar interferometry from European and Japanese satellites and other satellite imagery, and by mapping teams on the ground.”
Looks like expansion cracking to me. Anybody bake breads or cakes? Hmmmm. We’re sitting on a huge loaf of marble rye! Bite it!
They already know these “seismic waves radiate outwards in all 3-dimensions” and “occur below the surface at the hypocenter and propagate outwards.” So we know the force originates from within. And what is causing this inward force?
“For the first time scientists have discovered the presence of a natural deep earth pump that is a crucial element in the formation of ore deposits and earthquakes.”
…the fluid movement, described as the granular fluid pump, is a self sustaining process where pores open and close allowing fluid and gas to be pumped out.”
“We are seeing the direct evidence for one of the processes that got ore forming fluids moving up from the mantle to the shallow crust to form the ore deposits we mine today, it is also one of the mechanisms that can lead to earthquakes in the middle crust,” It actually makes stuff. Hmmmm. Where we going to put all that stuff?
“A study in Nature suggests that volcanoes and mountains in the Mediterranean can grow from the pressure of the semi-liquid mantle pushing on Earth’s crust from below.”
And what about all the rocks in the mix? From the Chile quake, “They found the ‘microcracks’ changed the elasticity of the rock, which meant stresses that might normally occur at almost right angles to the fault line rotated to a 45 degree angle instead.” Hmmmm. Compare with expansion.
“….pressure and stress during an earthquake causes rocks in the fault zone to expand and become more porous. After the quake, the ground will “heal” over a period of years, settling and forming a depression.”
From the 2003 Iran quake, “InSAR revealed a shallow, ditch-like depression on the surface – measuring between 200 to 400 meters wide and about 3 centimeters deep – directly above the ruptured fault, indicating that the deformation was associated with the earthquake.”
From the one in Australia in 2005, “…that forces, including those that caused the Boxing Day earthquake and tsunami, are being transferred back across Australia’s tectonic plate, causing it to split in two.”
“Scientists had long understood why earthquakes happen where tectonic plates meet (the plates are forced against each other by movements in the mantle beneath the Earth’s surface), but the causes of earthquakes — such as the 1989 Newcastle earthquake — in apparently ‘safe’ areas in the middle of the plate had remained a mystery.”
Maybe we can call them “platelets” after they get smaller still. And like platelets in our blood form in the bone marrow and surface to become our substance of growth, so this huge floating biscuit, consisting of the same physical ingredients found in us, can continue to grow from within. I’m confident they’ll figure it out. 😉
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By: poolman on July 1, 2010
at 8:48 PM
avotresante on July 1, 2010 at 6:09 PM
I see evidence of pain similar to yours every time I volunteer at a local food bank or food or clothing drives run by a nearby storefront ministry. Most of the people served there have no health insurance and live day to day with the possibility of a medical emergency trashing what is left of their lives. These are not freeloaders, they happen to work low paying jobs or are unemployed due of forces beyond their control.
I have excellent health insurance that supplements Medicare and I wish that everyone could have the same level of medical services that I have had over my lifetime. And I have argued here and elsewhere that I would be willing to pay more for health insurance if there was a chance for universal coverage. I do this without uneasiness despite our modest financial circumstances because it is simply the humane way to go.
Unhappily, you may not get much help reaching your goal on a website like this because relatively few people share your interest and easily get distracted by less important issues.
The solution is political and the pressure has to come from the citizenry through the congress. I have contacted my congressmen and they have been very supportive but they are currently absorbed by other issues and it appears that the universal coverage issue has been bypassed. Also, breaking the grip of the medical establishment lobbyists is pretty much a lost cause given the recent action of the Supreme Court to allow unfettered political contributions by corporations and Unions. That does not bode well for a solution to your needs. But, most infuriating, a useless trillion dollar war, paid off the books, sopped up most of the money that could have offered you the sort of relief many of the rest of us often take for granted.
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By: jsri on July 1, 2010
at 8:43 PM
I don’t give opinions on this blog because I’m not as schooled as most of you, and frankly, politics sickens me lately. But jsri, your quest to recruit donors hits home hard for me. It’s admirable, and donations of blood, organs, tissues unquestionably save lives.
It might be helpful to your cause if you could find a way to revive the idea of a public option for healthcare coverage. There are over 45 million of us without any kind of help at all, and we are not going to receive the same help you want for others who have insurance. I’ve contacted a donor organization and the Mayo Clinic and asked what percentage of recipients do not have health care coverage. The donor organization was very helpful and answered my question, and it was something like 1%, but only if it had been paid for by private donations. The Mayo Clinic never answered my question.
My oldest brother needed bone marrow stem cells, and I couldn’t donate because his insurance didn’t cover my costs and I couldn’t afford it. Despite what anyone says, there are costs involved for a donor. My youngest brother who had insurance became the donor, thankfully, and it least gave us all hope for a while before my oldest brother died.
I understand how important donations are, without one my oldest brother wouldn’t have had a chance. Unfortunately, I don’t understand why people would even ask someone for something so incredibly precious, and then deny that person the very same chance for life if they didn’t have insurance. (I want it, but you can’t have it).
So until every American has the same opportunity to receive donations, I refuse to be a donor. I think a common goal for all of us, to benefit all of us, would be to make those opportunities available to all of us. Do you see how that might be a place to start in getting donors? Maybe you can think of a way to put a sensible idea to work. Just my 2 cents from my no-frills reality.
Belatedly, Jean, I’m glad to hear things went well.
alaskapi, I’m so sorry for your loss.
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By: avotresante on July 1, 2010
at 6:09 PM
Rae,
The intent of my post was not to inflame..but to put a mirror on the porch.
Professor and James,
Went to Fort Knox for 6 weeks basic ROTC summer of 70.
That was less than a month after Kent State.
Best “weight loss” program in the country.
Thought I wanted to lead men in Armor.
However the army made a mistake by letting us have an afternoon with some guys just back from Nam. They pretty much said no matter what your
your classification was armor or whatever..You were bound to be leading from the front and in infantry. Draft lottery number 342. I was a volunteer there. I finished school instead in 73 and the war was really winding down then.
Everyone else wanted med or law school so ROTC was their friend.
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By: Craig on July 1, 2010
at 4:04 PM
YW sunshine! IKR? Funny how that is!
The thing that is most impressive to me is that Obama has tackled the TOUGH 3rd rail issues, in an election year noless! No small feat!
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By: lori on July 1, 2010
at 3:44 PM
lori, thanks for the Rachel Maddow clip about President Obama’s accomplishments in less than 2 years. Funny that not too many other news sources mention these facts. Wonder why that is.
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By: sunshine on July 1, 2010
at 3:32 PM
Here is change we can believe in.
Rachel Maddow on the Accomplishments of the Obama Administration
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/maddowclip?source=20100701_MS
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By: lori on July 1, 2010
at 1:25 PM
Rae – it’s a red Irish ale. Ok, for a first try, but I want to increase the alcohol content a titch and up the unfermentables so it has enough body to hold a head. Since I don’t have air conditioning, I need to wait for fall temps to try again.
JeanΔ ¥ – I’m glad your husband’s procedures went well. My DH had the non-treadmill stress test and got very panicked as the drug took effect – he said the sensation just kept increasing & he didn’t know when it would end. It was like being shot to the moon.
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By: judith on July 1, 2010
at 12:52 PM
I’m sure glad somebody’s keeping an eye on things. If not, who knows what we’ll believe. All that money thrown at NASA has been paying off for modern science, for sure.
“…the quake moved the Calexico, Calif., region in a downward and southerly direction up to 31 inches.” Just growing pains. Otherwise, where did it move to? 😉
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By: poolman on July 1, 2010
at 12:31 PM
James –
“Did the veterans at your school get better with time? Did they make it all right?”
I think most did OK. One guy became a surgeon; he drove the chief resident crazy when he was a new resident; he never got rattled and he never let anything get to him. Being unable to stress this guy really got to everybody; pressure-cooker was the name of the game. I saw the chief resident stand at the operating table and hold his stomach, trying to cope with his ulcer pain. Just nuts.
One guy went to work in the mines; his name was James Elwood McPeak. Great fellow. We burned a lot of vegetation, he and I – and his cat Sheba was a fan of such things too.
If you want to email me privately I am pfesser53@gmail.com. Sounds like we could talk about a lot of things.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on July 1, 2010
at 11:41 AM
Harriet Meiers was a bit more than lackluster in comparison. She graduated from SMU–not a bad school but not remotely top tier. She began her career working for a plaintiffs’ personal injury firm. She did have a clerkship for a federal district court judge.
She went to work with a firm that paid $22 million to settle a claim that it helped a client defraud investor. Did a little business litigation–nothing of note, although she did have some good clients. Was Bush’s personal lawyer.
I’m not sure the basis for your claim that she withdrew her name because anyone thought she was too liberal. There was a collective gasp on both sides of the aisle because she genuinely lacked any accomplishment that would qualify her for an appointment to a court of appeals, much less the Supreme Court. My understanding is that Bush’s advisors told him there wasn’t a ghost of a chance she’d be confirmed and that it would be so humiliating for her and embarassing for him that she needed to be pulled. I do not have first hand knowledge of that but it squares a little better with the facts about her prior experience.
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By: Donna on July 1, 2010
at 11:40 AM
Rae, as far as the abiotic oil is concerned, “The most recent attempt at gaining credence for the abiogenic idea was only a few months ago. A research team at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, led by Vladimir Kutherov, demonstrated that animal and plant fossils are not necessary for producing oil and natural gas. The team simulated the thermal and pressure processes that occur in the inner layers of the earth to generate hydrocarbons, the chief component of oil and natural gas. The team also noted that oil and gas has been found 7 miles below ground in Texas and fossil oil and gas could not, via, gravity have seeped down to such depths.” The theory isn’t new, as it has been kicked around since the 16th century. “In the 19th century two very accomplished scientists, Alexander von Humboldt and Dimitri Mendeleev( of the Periodic Table fame) advanced the concept… …Jack Kenney of Gas Resources Corporation has become the leading Western exponent.”
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By: poolman on July 1, 2010
at 10:36 AM
Poolman, have you read the “climate gate” e mails? One thing that worried the climatologists was that reality was different from their predictions. They plotted to intimidate magazines to prevent them from printing views contrary to established doctrine.
I have a bad feeling about carbon dioxide and other green house gasses. In my opinion, natural forces are driving our weather and climate, but we can enhance or minimize those forces by what we do to our environment. For example, if we might unwittingly cause the earth to warm a degree when without us it would warm a half degree, or maybe it would cool a half degree instead of a degree because of us.
Otherwise I agree with you. It is about money and power.
My posts are too long again. Time to pick more cherries and raspberries.
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By: James on July 1, 2010
at 10:27 AM
I liked Kagan’s “Erkle Defense.” When confronted with a memo in her handwriting, related to partial birth abortion from the Clinton years, she said in effect “did I do that?”
Senator Specter said to Kagan “You haven’t answered much of anything.” She is smart–smart enough to avoid leaving paper tracks.
Kagan said it herself a few years ago. The confirmation process is nothing but theater. Senators strut about with profound questions to use as talking points later. Nominees say only what their interrogators want to hear. Everyone knows the outcome.
I disagree with some of her judicial philosophy, but she is very bright and the president has the right to nominate his people. Only someone’s finding Grandma hidden in her freezer will keep her from the Supreme Court.
Harriet Meiers was lackluster compared to Kagan. More liberals than conservatives supported her. She withdrew because the right thought she was too liberal and not up to the job.
I’m glad no one is trying to Bork her.
PFessor you are a man after my own heart. I was not sanguine about the possibility of being shot at either. I never understood that mentality which seems so common during every war. If you had been an infantry lieutenant, your average life span might have been about six months as it was when I entered the service.
Did the veterans at your school get better with time? Did they make it all right?
I enlisted in the Air Force to avoid the infantry, and ended up in a surreal world for awhile. As our bus drove away from where we were sworn in to the airport, our recruiter yelled “So long suckers!”
One way of coping was not to shut up. On my way home to civilian life after two years out of the States, I had not slept for over twenty four hours, and I was loopy. Though I had out processed, I still lent a hand that last week. Just before I left, we medevacked a woman who was bleeding to death.
I chatted with a young flight attendant about the poor woman who’s destiny I would never know. We had such a long conversation about my adventures and her travels, she moved me to first class, so we could talk some more.
When I left the plane, the flight attendant gave me a Disneyland balloon. and someone behind me started to applaud. All of the passengers gave me a standing ovation. Can you imagine?
I didn’t know what to do or how to feel. It meant a lot when things got rough later.
Years later, I tried to find the flight attendant to thank her for what she had given me. I found her classmate in 2004. The woman said her classmate often talked about becoming a flight attendant so she could see the world. She had died of cancer in the late seventies.
I used to have edetic memory, and it is still pretty good. I still see her as she was that night as we share a joke and she tells me where I should travel. I wish you could see her eyes as I do.
When I was in grad school, I showed how the Stockholm Syndrome played a role in slavery, the Nazi death camps and basic training. I probably earned an A because the professor couldn’t imagine anyone could be so off the wall. It felt good. Not bad for someone who had earned a cumulative 1.8 average on a four point scale in my freshman year.
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By: James on July 1, 2010
at 10:10 AM
Rae, you might want to start here for your research. Over 31,000 scientists have called it a bluff. “Research data on climate change do not show that human use of hydrocarbons is harmful. To the contrary, there is good evidence that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is environmentally helpful.” – Oregon Petition.
The primary “data” used to prove global warming basically ignores the Medievel Warm Period which had no cars cruising the continent or factories putting out pollutants. The real science shows the sun and its cycles is (and always has been) the primary cause our temps to rise and fall in regular cycles. Right now we are trending toward a cool down and possible ice age, going by that same data.
One of the biggest things to come out of this global warming scare is the production of biofuels. This has done a lot more harm to our environment than good. There is a lot of data out there regarding the damage we are doing, yet we are still cutting down tropical rain forests and destroying natural habitats to grow biofuel crops that require more energy to produce than they give us in return.
Another profit making hoax tied to this issue is the cap and trade legislation that is being put forth to “counter” this “man-made” problem. Europe has had this type of regulation for five years. It amounts to a tax on producers and consumers that people like Al Gore and Goldman Sachs are poised to profit from. I used to support these types of regulations, but have since come to oppose them. I think it merely another scam of the wealthy to control and profit from the masses. Do we see a trend here?
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By: poolman on July 1, 2010
at 9:56 AM
nor would Ted Olson have repeatedly been interrupted by someone like Sessions.
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By: Donna on July 1, 2010
at 9:35 AM
The confirmation process is a puffed up, formalized, open mic event. Did the questions or answers matter at all? Did any of the panel actually base their decision on the questions & answers?
Ted Olson wouldn’t have had to put up with a comment about the latest Twilight premiere. Lots of sexist stuff in the questioning, as much from the women as the men. It’s there that I enjoyed Kagan’s poise and humor. I wouldn’t have had that grace if I were sitting in her chair.
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By: delurkergurl on July 1, 2010
at 9:33 AM
Lori–what staggers me is the unbelievable crap that’s being spouted about her on Fox/right wing radio. This is someone who excelled at the top law school, had two of the most prestigious clerkships in the country, started at Williams & Connelly which is as good a lawfirm as there is, and all of this was before the deanship of Harvard Law School and being Solicitor General. She is an incredible intellect and a person of amazing accomplishment.
So to have people claiming she’s “not very bright” (Savage) or “a lightweight” (Levin) or that she’s never been a judge (the whole group) is dreadful. None of them spoke remotely like this about Harriet Meiers who didn’t have a fraction of Kagan’s qualifications.
If Ted Olson had been nominated by Bush, I don’t doubt that there would have been democratic opposition to his appointment–but it would likely have been based on the issues and I can’t imagine that anyone would have suggested he didn’t have the intellectual horsepower for the job or wasn’t qualified because he hadn’t been a judge.
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By: Donna on July 1, 2010
at 8:52 AM
James –
It ain’t fun. I remember being up for the draft in 1971, when there were no more deferments, only lottery. I lucked out with a 310, convinced that if I went to Vietnam I wouldn’t come back. (Having been shot at, I wasn’t as sanguine about the possibility as my cohorts.) We had a lot of Vietnam vets at my school and it was pretty tough.
Rae –
I suspect you are sandbagging us. How do you know about Claude Shannon? That is not something anyone other than an EE would have a clue about. Your information base is clearly very far above average. What is your education? C’mon now, give…
Jim
“You can’t spell geek without EE”
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By: PFesser53 on July 1, 2010
at 8:26 AM
For some reason I got this idea that I would do a “remember this” review of Craig’s posts, kind of feed him a taste of his own medicine. After awhile I realized it was mean-spirited, so I stopped.
And I began to think about what would happen if each of us cut and pasted all of our own posts into a separate document, and read them, without the benefit of other people’s posts to distract us. What would we see? Would we like it or cringe?
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By: Rae on July 1, 2010
at 8:18 AM
I agree delurker. She did do well and I like her… don’t you? I think she will be an asset to the bench.
RIP Senator Byrd you will be missed.
And yes I too hope everyone on the porch has a lovely weekend and stays safe.
My daughter will be coming in tonight from Dallas and my husband is returning home from Europe tomorrow! I had a wonderful time hangin with my posse last night. Life doesn’t get much better than that!
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By: lori on July 1, 2010
at 8:16 AM
Thomas Gold wrote a book, “The Deep Hot Biosphere” which I once bought. I think he called it his pore theory. He believed heat and internal pressure creates oil and natural gas.
Western geologists and scientists almost universally reject the theory while Russian and Ukrainian scientists are long term supporters of the theory of abiotic oil production.
A research team at the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm, Sweden showed that animal and plant fossils are not necessary for producing oil and natural gas. They also noted oil and gas have been found seven miles below the surface and stated that they could not have seeped down to those depths.
Egos, money and power are riding on the outcome of this debate. It may be similar to debates over the anthropegenic version of global warming, the Clovis Point, and our relationship with Neanderthals. Political and economic forces trump the truth.
It seems to me, we have found too much oil if it all comes from fossils, but I don’t know enough to form an opinion yet.
I agree our running out of oil or having a renewable supply are both long term disasters. Millions, maybe billions will die without oil until or unless we can invent efficient ways of using renewable energy.. If we keep using it at this rate, we may eventually suffer runaway green house conditions which once threatened life on earth.
Mars still has water, mostly frozen, and it even snows there. A better example for me is Venus. It is a hellish example of runaway greenhouse global warming.
As Elvis sang “We are caught in a trap.”
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By: James on July 1, 2010
at 8:11 AM
Glad to read your update, Jean.
Elena Kagan did well this week. Between some of the ridiculous questions, and the bluffing over a filibuster, it’s good to have it out of the way.
To my US and Canadian friends, have a safe & happy holiday weekend.
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By: delurkergurl on July 1, 2010
at 8:08 AM
Great news Jean! xo
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By: lori on July 1, 2010
at 7:53 AM
Thanks Rae.
I once interviewed some WW1 veterans, and I know a WW11 veteran who was one of the first to climb the cliffs at Omaha Beach. After all of those years most were still having nightmares. The WW11 veteran and his wife sleep in separate rooms because of his tendency to attempt to strangle her in her sleep. This, for me and them, may be as good as it gets.
Sometimes, therapy comes from unexpected places. I was one of the few non- liberals posting on my first message board. We had heated arguments, and some tried to get rid of me because of my political beliefs. One even invented characters to attack me.
I was banned. Ten or so of them set up a new message board just so I could stay in touch. Later, they threatened to boycott the message board if the moderators didn’t reinstate me. Can you imagine what that did for me? Lots of good things have happened in my life. People like you are unwitting therapy too.
One advantage of being a slightly disabled veteran with mild aches and pains is as I get older, I don’t notice much difference. Its sad to see some friends of my age declining. My wife visited one of my former high school class mates, and she said it was like visiting a nursing home.
Last weekend, one of my best high school friends and his wife stopped for a surprise visit. We hadn’t seen each other in eight years. He had a tube sticking from the base of his skull. I didn’t ask, and he didn’t tell.
Our daughter and son in law gave me DVDs of the second season of “Dead Like Me” for Fathers’ Day. One character discovered the meaning of life. “We are all temps.”
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By: James on July 1, 2010
at 7:24 AM
OK, poolman. Abiologic oil, eh? Does anyone here know what the top peer-reviewed geology journals are? I don’t know enough to tell whether this is la-la land or real, so I’m going to do some research if I stay interested long enough.
On the other hand, may I point out that unlimited oil reserves might just be a terrible thing? We’re at what, 370 ppm of carbon in the atmosphere now, and best estimates are that we cannot sustain life at more than 350. If Mars did indeed at one time have water, and life, it should stand as a stark reminder of the fragility of our ecosystem. [Hope that didn’t sound all alien abduction there]
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By: Rae on June 30, 2010
at 11:22 PM
Jean, you have a keeper in that guy.
I have a sister who, at 45, had a brain aneurysm burst, managed to survive with a coiling, then after clawing her way back through sheer grit, had to go back for a “clipping” and ended up having two strokes, and clawing her way back again. She and her husband say that “like Keith Richards, she cannot be killed by ordinary means.” I think your hubbie is of the same ilk.
Jim, I am no longer visiting with my son & his family, but if I get the opportunity to talk to him, I will ask about nuking the ocean floor. Your explanation was great, I thought. And I like the Shannon article as well. Is he related to the information theory Shannon? (sorry, free-associating)
Everyone knows it’s really one big ocean, right? Today the Gulf, tomorrow the eastern seaboard, eventually everywhere. Someone will step in and nuke it for us if we don’t do something soon. What has happened to the people who live there is tragic, but I think this might just be a bit bigger than the people of the Gulf.
Craig, I like your “blasts from the past.” One of mine was a little out of context, but what the heck — I’ll stand by it. After all, think how much women could save on hairdressers and Botox if they were to adopt burqas.
Judith — beer-making! Cousin-in-law Tony is now up to 10 different beers, and they are fabulous. Never liked beer until he decided to set up a brewery in his dining room when the kids left for college. My cousin isn’t too fond of the whole thing, but she’s willing to help drink it. If you’re drinking great beer, it’s easy to overlook the mess in the dining room. What kind of beer are you brewing? How is it working out?
James, tame those demons. Seriously. Who wants to be a coiled spring? In the meantime, you haven’t offended me at all, so you can keep on saying what you say as far as I’m concerned.
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By: Rae on June 30, 2010
at 11:02 PM
Jean –
Congratulation to you and your fella. Trying to put myself in your place, I think I might understand a little of your point of view. As the years roll, I try to gain perspective and some sense of peace as I watch the end of my time getting closer. I think often of my two sons, and of gazing at them in adoration as we sat by the TV having our glasses of milk. Nearly twenty years ago…my god. I think of what Twain said about being dead a million years before he was born and its being no tragedy and expecting it to be no tragedy after he was gone. I think of my dead parents, my dead brother and my childhood best friend, Deward Scott – one of the first miners pulled out of Upper Big Branch in April. I think of what the fellow said about how he felt sorry for the people who never were, and that we – having been given the opportunity to live – were truly the lucky ones – unlike the billions who were not born – or even conceived.
And when I think about you and your man, I think about my lovely wife and how lucky I was to find her – and how all relationships end in divorce or death, and how right the philosophers were about wasting time on anger.
We ARE very, very lucky and I hope we never forget that.
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 30, 2010
at 9:33 PM
I guess it didn’t get the reaction expected. Yeah, that’s the ticket… 😎 trying again…
“Oil is not a fossil fuel. And it is ‘renewable’.”
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By: poolman on June 30, 2010
at 9:23 PM
Good news Auntie Jean:
Good to hear that your husband’s procedures went okay. His story is the story of many of us of similar age, only the specific ailments differ. But we keep plugging away even though sometimes I feel like a lab rat. In my case, two stents, triple bypass, prostate resection, low thyroid, high blood pressure etc. etc. all have been dealt with successfully. Together with my wife’s thyroid problem, elevated BP, chronic anemia from photopheresis treatments for her lymphoma, like you and your husband, we could be subjects for a medical textbook. Yet, despite all the meds I have to take daily, I still have no restrictions against making blood donations.
About nine years ago, when my wife first started her treatments at Dana Farber CI in Boston, I wandered into a nearby hospital blood bank and noticed some donors who seemed to be about my age. When I asked what it would take to be the oldest donor, they suggested that I’d have to live beyond ninety five. After a year and a half and my first gallon, I showed my son the blood drop pin the hospital gave me. He laughed. He has a similar pin, only his is huge. In the past thirty years he has donated almost 20 gallons.
The only reason I bring this up is because I volunteer as a courier for our local blood bank and am out and about several days every week. In my travels I have seen donors from every ethnic group, males and females, and some as young as sixteen. The blood bank I volunteer at has one donor who donates platelets every second week and has been doing it since Methuselah was a young buck.
The unfathomable part of all this is that less than 4% of all those eligible actually donate in the US. So my mission is to turn potential donors into real donors. While 38% of the members of the public are potential donors, only 10% of them do so on a regular basis. And it really doesn’t hurt that much.
Stepping off soapbox. Time for my nap.
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By: jsri on June 30, 2010
at 9:11 PM
Auntie Jean, I’m glad all went well with your boy toy. Getting old isn’t for wimps! It would be nice to reverse this whole process of age. I haven’t gotten to the reverse button instructions yet. I’ll keep you posted on that part. In forward, life can be brutal to its hosts aboard this flying dirt ball, that’s for sure. All the natural forces are trying to recombine us for reuse. Ahhhh, the circle/cycle of life. It’s making me so dizzy. 😉
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By: poolman on June 30, 2010
at 8:04 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
My husband’s procedure went well this morning. He had a stress test for his heart but the treadmill wasn’t advisable for two reasons. He takes meds to keep his heart rate very low after four heart attacks starting in 1985; five angiograms, two angioplasties and two stents. He can’t walk fast enough on a treadmill to get his heart rate up there because of his spinal stenosis. (He also has a titanium hip. Between the stents and the hip, at any airport he gives the TSA people fits when their security systems light up like Christmas!)
I was invited in to hold his hand through the procedure this morning. That was nice. He had an entourage of one nurse and two technicians with a whole array of equipment and monitors. They were extremely professional! They gave him an IV drug, Dobutamine, to jump his heart rate up, constantly monitoring his heart rate and blood pressure for the echocardiogram.
When the cardiologists strode in, he noticed my “Opera News” magazine in my lap. I had brought it to while away the time, thinking I would be cooling my heels in the waiting room. Very briskly, he said, “Are you an opera fan? We need to talk!” Afterwards, we did. A lot! His daughter is a budding operatic lyric soprano currently singing in Italy in a place neither the doctor nor I can pronounce correctly. He spelled it.
Turns out, my husband’s heart is pretty good considering that some chunks of it are gone. He did experience some ‘pressure and discomfort’ when the heart rate was at its highest so they gave him one nitro tablet. Otherwise the test went well. The upshot is, they cannot take him off Plavix as he had hoped, so we will have to continue to carry around band-aids and a wad of paper towels at all times in case he gets a little nick, scrape or bump and bleeds all over the place.
He was advised to discontinue the Plavix for 5 days each time next month when he undergoes a series of epidural prednisone shots for his spinal stenosis, mostly L2-L3 caused by osteoarthritis. (Like I had last summer for my spinal stenosis, although mine are mostly L3-L4 with a badly squished disc.) Neither of our spinal problems is operable. We have both seen our MRIs. We each hobble along nicely, with two generic-type Tylenol tablets, twice a day and several rest periods/reading times a day.
When we left the hospital, we gave and got hugs all around.
Did I mention that he has an enlarged prostate, (but not malignant) and rheumatoid arthritis? He has occasional bouts of CRS (Can’t Remember Shit!) but don’t we all?
Other than that he’s fine. His written instructions post-procedure said to resume normal activities so he drove us home.
My husband’s health problems are not exactly solved but they are manageable.
Now on to my sister’s health issues. They are a little bit more complicated.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
P.S. Paraphrasing a great poet who once said, “Count that day lost, whose low descending sun, finds Jean without a crisis met – – – and muddled through”. Does anyone remember the name of that poet?
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 30, 2010
at 7:06 PM
Referencing a brief earlier topic –
I’m watching the remains of the tornado’d cherry tree sprouting this year. The plan had been to rip out the stump & plant dwarf apples, but I think I’ll wait. It’s sprouting both above & below the graft. Above the graft will be Montmorency. Below the graft, who knows.? A semi-dwarf stock, I assume cherry of some sort, but I wouldn’t swear to anything, including the likelihood of edible fruit from that growth. It’s the Lazarus tree, I guess. Let you know in a couple years.
We’ve been eating lettuce & radishes for some time now, but last night brought the harvesting of the first collards. Never tried them before, except in restaurants (I’m a kale kind of woman), but they were yummy. Pole beans are working on shading the back porch – we run them on a big trellis and one vine is over the roof already. Tomatoes and peppers are producing green globules, except for the Valencia tomato which is letting down its entire variety. Not a flower in sight. Herbs are going nuts. And for the first time in 15 years, we’re doing potatoes.
And we re-upped with the farm for a weekly veg box. Damn, I’m getting healthy. Except – the new thing I’m learning this year is beer-making. 1st batch of Dead Spider Red Irish ale is half gone and I have the plans to improve the next batch nailed down.
Happy Summer, everyone!
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By: judith on June 30, 2010
at 6:11 PM
Rae, so you were under the desk too! Fun times. Who knows, maybe some of those nuclear test were to plug oil wells. Ha!
As the man on Coast to Coast said, geology has a lot to do with whether or not a tactical nuclear weapon will successfully stop a gusher. Russians have written it should be done, but the Coast to Coast guest said the geology of the sea bottom is different from where the Soviets set off nuclear weapons. He thinks the Gulf floor could crack and release much more oil into the water.
Another problem a poster to a blog about the bomb noted another possible danger. A giant resevour of methane, a green house gas, is stored under the ocean in a semi- solid state. A nuclear weapon might send some of it to the surface.
I don’t know if the Coast to Coast guest and the poster knew what they were talking about, but I have a bad feeling about exploding weapons nuclear or otherwise on the well without being certain it would do no harm.
You could be right about the baiting. I have an unusual and violent past. When I was a token veteran call-in guest on NPR’s Science Friday Talk of the Nation for a discussion of counseling for returning Iraqi-Afghani veterans, one of the panelists said after my story, I was just the sort of person they wanted to help. He said my experience sounded like a perfect storm.
Combine that with my homecoming reception, it means when people call me and others names or inflict personal attacks, the behavior of some here is like yelling “they’re off” near an old race horse. I become verbally combative. You might say I am fighting another war.
I tried to explain this last summer, but I don’t think anyone understood. I do sometimes argue aggressively, but if “you” are polite to me, I am polite to “you.” Otherwise, we have a problem.
As you wrote, baiting may not be the right term. It felt like simple hostility.
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By: James on June 30, 2010
at 4:41 PM
I think its interesting to note Matts post about Trolls and those who post..and how he defines those who post in different ways.
Thought I would go back and relive a few posts..I think its enlightening to read peoples words out of context to a point…
“I never talk religion, especially on blogs with strangers. LOL” LORI
“Oh lord don’t get me started on the teaching and administration professions!
Personally, (and boy am I gonna catch hell for this post) I think the minute our society started buying the teacher’s union propaganda was the minute we sold our children’s soul to the devil.” LORI
“I only talk politics that keeps me in enough hot water! LOL ” LORI
“Just Scroll Past our resident Troll – He really is a sad fellow who is needing attention. Do him a favor and scroll over his posts.
“No friends, no hobbies, no life” my thoughts exactly.” JUNEAU JOE
“Many of those who fancy themselves mighty troll smiters here would be banned themselves from moderated discussion groups for flaming (which is different than trolling), baiting (similar to trolling), and generally elevating the impact of the “trolls.”
MATT
“Sessions = ‘pig’, ‘swine’, what’s the difference?” Jean
“Moreover, “bagger” Lori’s tendency to negatively objectify groups she finds offensive is not calculated to encourage the dialogue” James
“Donna, I just don’t feel like being baited by James, he is nothing to me.” no one’s puppet
“No one’s puppet, why should you care what or whether I write if no one reads it? You are being illogical.” James
“Craig/Gregorio:
1. The emotional maturity of a 2 year old who hasn’t had a nap.
2. The intelligence of a garden slug.
3. The originality of a refrigerator magnet. DONNA
“@Craig, I see you have learned your history, geography, and anthropology from the popular press.” RAE
“I posted because I liked some of the people, and I wanted to exchange ideas with folks who disagreed. However, in time, they called me troll, racist, and even questioned my gender. Jean once wrote she didn’t think I would ever win any humanitarian awards. Lori wrote she refused to debate anyone who spouted right wing talk show’s lies.” JAMES
“Which brings me to quoting myself about ‘the spoiled rotten punk kids’ of today. All this ‘texting’ back and forth, communicating with their peer group and stuff. (Like us, coming to M&H’s blog on our home computers?) ” JEAN
“Jim, you are misinformed when it comes the culture (women wearing burqas) and practices of modern day Iran. Sorry, but until you become more informed we will have to suspend our discussions on Iran. There is no sense in talking about an issue when one party is just not clear on the facts.” LORI
“I never talk religion, especially on blogs with strangers. LOL” LORI
“So it makes sense to me to have Iran sit on the United nations council for women, and offer a different perspective.” RAE
“Craig, I don’t only use one source for my news. Al Jazeera reports more accurately than a lot of other sources.” POOLMAN
“To Trolls: Glen Beck is looking for you. Seems he is talking to GOD or Martin Luther King – you would be totally interested.
You are a bit borish on this site. You might consider going to where your craziness is appreciated.” JENUEAU JOE
I think Matt hit it on the head with his post about people wanting to own blog sites as their own.
IMOHO.
Craig
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By: Craig on June 30, 2010
at 3:37 PM
no one’s puppet –
I think it is a yield problem. Nukes are graded according to equivalent TNT. If memory serves, the Hiroshima bomb was about 15 kilotons, or equivalent to 15 THOUSAND TONS of TNT.
My understanding is that they have been able to downsize nuclear bombs to less than 5 kT, but by definition you would need 5,000 metric tons of chemical explosive to equal that. (I think that math is right). It would be just too much material to transport a mile down.
The biggest problem with air-burst nuclear devices has been nuclear fallout. I don’t know what the radiation release is with with devices they have available now, but it would seem that ANY device would have zero air fallout and the radioactivity would disperse in the water. I wouldn’t think anybody would have to be relocated.
I’ll bet Rae’s physicist son could give us some much better answers.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 30, 2010
at 2:48 PM
Rae, could you check and see if a conventional bomb wouldn’t be equally effective at stopping the well from gushing. If not, why? Nuking it does seem like the final insult to the people living along the gulf, they’d have to be relocated, I assume.
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By: no one's puppet on June 30, 2010
at 2:28 PM
one last word
I agree it is a bit gushy but I chose the second in deference to the characters or personalities of the so-named daughters of friends or former colleagues.
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By: jsri on June 30, 2010
at 2:16 PM
Warning: long post
Rae –
I ran across this when I was in college, far too long ago, and cut out a copy to keep in a scrapbook. I think it speaks to what you and I have been discussing. I sort of think of it like the ten commandments; nobody can do it all the time, but it’s what you always shoot for.
James P Shannon [Late Executive Director of the Minneapolis Foundation]
The Tradition of Respectful Argument
One mark of an educated man is his ability to differ without becoming angry, sarcastic or discourteous. Such a man recognizes that in contingent matters there will always be a place for legitimate difference of opinion.
He knows that he is not infallible; he respects the honesty and intellectual integrity of other men and presumes all men are men of integrity until they are proven to be otherwise.
He is prepared to listen to them when their superior wisdom has something of value to teach him. He is slow to anger and always confident that truth can always defend itself and state its own case without specious arguments and emotional displays of personal pressures.
This is not to say that he abandons his position easily. If his be a disciplined mind, he does not lightly forsake the intellectual ground he has won at great cost. He yields only to evidence, proof or demonstration.
He is neither angered nor shocked by new evidence of public vulgarity or blindness. He is rather prepared to see in these expected human weaknesses compelling reason for more compassion, better rhetoric, stronger evidence on his part. He seeks always to persuade and seldom to denounce.
The ability to defend one’s position with spirit and conviction; to evaluate accurately the conflicting opinions of others and to retain one’s confidence in the ultimate power of truth to carry its own weight, are necessary talents in any society, but espaecially so in our democratic world.
In our day and in our land, there is some evidence that these virtues are in short supply. The venerable tradition of respectful argumentation, based on evidence, conducted with courtesy, and leading to the exposition of truth, is a precious part of our heritage in this land of freedom. It is the duty of dedicated men to understand, appreciate and perpetuate this tradition.
Jim
Shannon was an interesting guy. It’s worth doing a little googling on him.
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By: PFesser53 on June 30, 2010
at 1:36 PM
James, good heavens. We have found common ground. That’s something. I hear that the Russians have advised, based on several actual experiences, that we nuke the well. (You just posted again, and I see you found 5 attempts, 4 successful). Do you suppose all of that nuclear testing we worried so much about was really just oil well plugging? All of that time under the desk!
I hate the idea of nuking, but have to admit it can’t get much worse. I realize we’ve thrown our garbage into the ocean for as long as we’ve been around, but I think this might just be too much to survive.
I don’t think anyone baited you. Really. Bringing up something controversial isn’t baiting — most of the time, it’s inviting lively discussion and a variety of points of view. That’s why I love this blog.
poolman, I just have to disagree with you on the “200 years of oil” thing. I come from a family of scientists, and they all say the claim is baloney. So I’m going to trust them, since I know they are people of integrity, who let the facts win over dogma (just saying you can’t trust everybody). But I have to admit I have not personally studied this issue.
jsri, the 2nd definition is just so gushy it makes me uncomfortable, so I prefer the first. Glad my parents didn’t spell my name this way, though: Rachel. Now back to work …
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By: Rae on June 30, 2010
at 12:32 PM
Rae, Komsomoloskaya Pravda the Russian daily, reported the Soviets used nuclear explosions to control oil and gas gushers five times and succeeded in four of those attempts.
A guest on Coast to Coast said a nuke on the Gulf spill might shatter the sea bed near the well and make the leak even worse than it is because of the geology.
Around 1884, an artesan well blew near Bell Plain Iowa and released several hundred thousand gallons of water a day with about four freight car loads of sand. Jumbo the well became a world sensation, and it took 13 months to stop.
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By: James on June 30, 2010
at 12:11 PM
Rae on June 30, 2010 at 11:17 AM
And the Urban Dictionary is often very funny. But the Internet has its own culture and argot and even though I’ve been a long time user, I often come across terms that I don’t understand so one of the first places I go to learn what it might represent is the Urban Dictionary.
BTW since I know several Raechels (SP) and I prefer definition 2.
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By: jsri on June 30, 2010
at 12:04 PM
Chrystal, I don’t ever argue for the sake of an argument. That is not me. My goal is to sway people to see my perspective or point them to where they can view the same facts. Sometimes it becomes a debate and arguments may arise, but that is never my goal. These debates help hone my perspective and have sent me off on researching that has expanded my knowledge. Some have even forced me to rethink and form new opinions. I do post to get a rise occasionally, but that IS me. I’ve been told that some around me find me “too intense”, though I am just me. Here are some sources substantiating my claims:
“Iran, OPEC’s second-largest producer, has completely stopped conducting oil transactions in U.S. dollars,…” This is the reason they are a threat to us and our economy and why we would want them attacked, imo.
I know Ahmadinejad is an outspoken opponent of Israel and denies the holocaust. He doesn’t hold the power that the clerics do. There is also much unrest in that country and many factions within that want a more western type of society. There are some very educated citizens there, and like Israel they have their share of religious radicals. The state of Israel operates outside the UN’s stipulations, has not admitted to having nukes, and pretty much does what it wants with almost no opposition from the USA. They have been cited for numerous acts of aggression, violence, and oppression by the UN, but have ignored their authority. No other country has been given so much free reign, except the US in this modern time.
As far as the makeup of oil, I posted yesterday at 10:54am regarding the theories of it’s origin.
According to Lindsey Williams, we have enough oil in Alaska alone to supply the US for 200 years. However, that info is classified. It is not as profittable to the money men to utilize these reserves.
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By: poolman on June 30, 2010
at 12:01 PM
Greytdog, and Poolman, if you were here I’d share. We planted another cherry tree last year, and it has a few on it too. Our black raspberries are something to look forward to each year, especially in pies. Have you heard why the raspberries you bought are bland? Is it the weather?
Rae, I don’t support Obama, but I agree with you for the third time. I’m sure you know the world can support more than a tenth of its population, but you are right. The world has too many mouths to feed, and we can’t all ride the life boats to Argentina.
As for oil. Some countries have experience coping with oil spills. In my opinion, we need their advice and help with any possible remedy even if it might not work, as long as it doesn’t make the problem worse.
Grandma Katie, they baited me, and I responded.
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By: James on June 30, 2010
at 11:49 AM
poolman, you are a hoot.
PFesser, you may be right. I’m just skeptical of “save the day,” the result I suppose of many years of dashed hopes. I did love NC in Con Air saying he was going to save the F-ing day, though. Campy. And I do know about showboats rushing in to grab a little piece of the fame pie while others are just heads-down, sleeves-rolled-up, working.
It shouldn’t take too long to figure out if the boat will help, at least with the oil on the surface. Much of it is below, of course. But you are right, I may just be cynical. My matter-of-fact physicist son says tersely “there’s only one solution – nuke it.”
I think your description of blog visitor types is right on, although I think we all stray at times into the different behaviors.
Here’s another type (let’s call it a type of behavior, not a type of person): It’s my blog, and who invited you? That one cracks me up.
Matt – thanks for the more detailed explanation of trolling vs. flaming vs. blog-hopping. I have nothing good to say about the pimps. Let’s shun them.
Here is a suggestion: if you think someone is just blathering on to get a reaction, don’t react. Just don’t respond. Otherwise you feed the need.
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By: Rae on June 30, 2010
at 11:47 AM
Your interpretation of “troll” and who you think fits the bill is not universal.
Many of those who fancy themselves mighty troll smiters here would be banned themselves from moderated discussion groups for flaming (which is different than trolling), baiting (similar to trolling), and generally elevating the impact of the “trolls.”
Flaming is getting personal. Trolling is posting specifically to provoke a response (usually negative).
Blog-hogging and pimping one’s own site are also considered troll traits. No matter WHO does it.
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By: Matt on June 30, 2010
at 11:32 AM
Good morning everyone. In my ongoing research and fervor, I have discovered much that has helped my understanding of all things water. I just had to post this serious scientific site – most is way over my head as I’m generally no deeper than 12 feet in a pool anyway, but this little tidbit caught my attention and my ego (I know, not the best voice to listen to) told me to razz PFesser with it…“The compressibility of water reduces the sea level by about 40 m giving us 5% more land.” Hmmmm. 😉
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By: poolman on June 30, 2010
at 11:21 AM
Rae –
Think about it for a minute. This ship is purpose-built, over (was it three?) football fields long. I couldn’t even venture how many millions it cost to build. Nobody is going to finance something like that without solid engineering and proof that it works.
The technology is well-proven I believe. I know nothing about how it works except what I’ve seen on TV, and it looks pretty simple: a vacuum hose about two inches above the water, so that it gets water and whatever is floating on it. The water/oil are then separated by gravity as the mixture lies quietly in the cargo space (or tank or whatever it’s called).
Admittedly I’m a amateur here, but certainly it couldn’t do any more harm than letting the oil lie there and get scattered by tropical storms.
On another issue: I haven’t said much, but I find this “troll” stuff to be pretty unsavory myself. It’s like the “racist” thing – at one time it was used sparingly and appropriately, but nowadays it is just thrown about by people who are intellectually lazy and just want to shut their opponents up with a cheap shot.
I am admittedly a newcomer to this blog, but as an observer, there seem to be two types of posters: 1) very bright folks who want to really learn from others; they get down and discuss the nitty-gritty and aren’t afraid to mix it up and, 2) folks who just want someone to blow sunshine up their butts and never disagree with them. The second type, when a disagreement occurs, run to hide in the closet and poke their heads out to yell, “troll!” and threaten “If you don’t stop being mean, I’ma gonna leave!”
Actually, I could define a third type that has difficulty joining the discussion and gets all angry when they get dissed and then diss back and make it worse for themselves. Sometimes that’s me, but I recognize it is a dead-end and try to apologise and move on.
Thoughts?
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 30, 2010
at 11:21 AM
jsri, the Urban Dictionary is intended to be funny. Let us, for example, take “Raechel,” my name:
“A large quantity of awesome frequently found in female form. Can also be used to describe an something of incredible rarity and uniqueness. Not to be confused with rachel, who is a slut.”
No, I did not add the definition myself; nor do I know the perpetrator. I’m glad to be able to quote it now and again, and have considered giving coffee cups sporting the definition to my entire family for Christmas.
Back to the subject: calling someone “troll” is making an ad hominem attack; it is attacking the person rather than the argument or position that the person has taken. I despise the name calling as I despise all ad hominem attacks. I suggest that we — who hope, at least, to be people of reason, agree to abandon the practice.
It would be nice if the rest of you cowards would weigh in on this. (LOL)
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By: Rae on June 30, 2010
at 11:17 AM
no one’s puppet on June 30, 2010 at 9:55 AM
Thanks for the heads up. I used to go to Demo Underground on occasion but somehow it got lost from my favorites list. I’ll check t out.
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By: jsri on June 30, 2010
at 11:06 AM
Rae on June 30, 2010 at 9:42 AM
I’m not sure if it trolls themselves that you have trouble with or if it is the word itself.
Trolls come in all stripes and sizes. I’ve sfound them on websites of all political persuasions although right wing sites more often have site monitors who remove their comments. Liberal sites are less often as restrictive. Trolls used to be called “flamers”,
According to the urban dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
A troll is one who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. ‘you’re nothing but a fanboy’ is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.
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By: jsri on June 30, 2010
at 11:00 AM
Poolman,
Been busy this past weekend getting kids ready and sent to camp. So sorry about not being here.
Now to your comment about oil and other riches.
You seem to have hit on several agendas.
One proposal you have mentioned is Iran and that “we” I guess you mean the United States, is backing Israel over Iran as a reason to go into Iran and take over Iran for their oil?
” Though the reason we want to take out Iran is the currency of oil, we will fabricate terrorist related threats to us and Israel justifying reasons to attack. I hope not, but it does follow the Zionist/neocon agenda”
I think Israel has had a target on them ever since they came into existence in 48. We did not, and the rest of the United Nations did not vote to give Israel land because there might have been oil in the region.
Then Poolman you add;
” We have become the bully in the schoolyard. How can we not expect to be put in our place? I don’t see any good coming out of this.”
I’d say the bully has been the Iranian clerics and their a “little bit off” President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It is he who had denied the holocaust and has made numerous comments about wanting to wipe Israel from the world map.
Now the world waits while he supposedly produces nuclear fuel rods for energy?
We have plenty of other places to look for oil.
Even here in the US on land in shale rocks in the rockie’s and elsewhere, we have technologies to extract and produce oil without harming the land.
If its an argument you want for the sake of an argument..I cannot agree on your hypothesis.
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By: Chrystal on June 30, 2010
at 10:40 AM
jsri, you might enjoy democratic underground, it is closely monitored so the posts stay on subject, for the most part. But don’t be a stranger to M&H.
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By: no one's puppet on June 30, 2010
at 9:55 AM
Hey, Jim, I think the “more” to the oil skimmer story is that the federal government (that’s us) will be expected to pay for its efforts. AND there’s no evidence that it works, just the claim (in the media, no less) by the owner. At least that’s how it stood when I read about it. Imagine what it would be like if every goofball with a great idea for cleanup converged on the gulf. You’d have pyramid ships, crystal being thrown overboard, and who knows what else. Now maybe this thing works, maybe it doesn’t. But it makes sense to me to find out before it’s added to the confusion in the area. Just saying.
@jsri – I am really offended by this “troll” language. How in the world did that get started, and who thinks it’s a good idea to stereotype and name-call???? I continue to be a supporter of the President, by the way, so I guess I don’t qualify as a troll (isn’t this used by so-called progressives to label anyone who disagrees with something POTUS does?), but it still offends me. And I do not consider it to be progressive at all. Call me old-fashioned, but if this is how we’re going to behave, we’d might as well be over at Huffington Post.
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By: Rae on June 30, 2010
at 9:42 AM
delurkergurl on June 29, 2010 at 6:08 PM
I’m not sure where to go next. Since the H&M site has been overrun trolls it is obvious that its time is coming to an end. Many of the posters who used to come here regularly are rarely seen anymore.
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By: jsri on June 30, 2010
at 9:02 AM
JeanΔ ¥ on June 30, 2010 at 1:17 AM
Not normally my field of interest but after skimming his Wiki review bio it is obvious that he was a victim of the rigidity of the Nazi Political machine where a Jew/Catholic was considered a cultural degenerate and treated accordingly. Just another example of a fundamental conflict between religion and politics.
Below is a link to a review of one of his pieces when it was performed recently in LA.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2010/04/franz-schrekers-the-stigmatized-at-los-angeles-opera.html
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By: jsri on June 30, 2010
at 8:57 AM
Hi all –
It is reported that the world’s largest oil skimmer is being delayed by the US govt from working in the Gulf until it is certified as “effective.”
It seems the govt is worried that water returned to the Gulf after skimming the oil off the surface may have, well, oil in it.
Surely there must be more to this story.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/30/largest-skimmer-in-the-world-must-be-deemed-effective-by-the-federal-government-before-its-allowed-to-help-with-oil-clean-up/
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 30, 2010
at 6:38 AM
Hi jsri and Poolman,
Here is something relatively apolitical that you two guys and your families might find intriguing. I think you both have the inclination and some leisure time for tracking down obscurities. It is a work by Franz Schreker, “Der Ferne Klang”, (“The Distant Sound”), music of haunting beauty. This music was actively supressed.
It is being performed at a summer festival in New York. You can check it out at: Fishercenter.bard.edu.
Placido Domingo, the General Director and Maestro James Conlon, the Music Director of the Los Angeles Opera have been successfully promoting and reviving the works of a number of other composers of similar but almost unknown stature in the U.S.
You can Google them and go from there if you like. Amazon has a list of recordings.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 30, 2010
at 1:17 AM
Easier, actually it took me back to that time in history. My life wasn’t that humorous, at least not to me, but the mental imagery was very poignant.
I’m glad you liked it. We need a little levity to counter life’s heaviness – especially today.
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By: poolman on June 29, 2010
at 11:29 PM
Poolman, thanks for the link to Mr. Fish. Hillarious and quite profound commentary at the same time, makes you think quite a bit, doesn’t it?
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By: Easier on June 29, 2010
at 8:23 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Our Comander-in-Chief has waived the requirements for General McCrystal to retire as a four star with full honors and benefits.
I think President Obama is a gentleman of the first order and a class act without a vindictive bone in his body.
Ms. Kagan, (forgot her first name) conducted herself with dignity and clarity.
Sessions = ‘pig’, ‘swine’, what’s the difference?
Thanks again to all our dear friends here at M&H for your kind wishes and thoughts. We are all set. You can’t keep and Old Broad and her ‘Boy Toy’ down for long!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
P.S. While we were making oatmeal and chocolate chip cookies, we saw a clip of Prince Harry, or maybe it was his brother, playing some sort of English game. He fell on his high-ness!
Oh, dear.
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 29, 2010
at 7:55 PM
Delurker: I listened to alot of the hearing and she did beautifully. Never got rattled. Sessions came across like a complete pig.
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By: Donna on June 29, 2010
at 7:27 PM
More slime… Brown blocks financial reform… oil expected to spew inland due to the tropical storm… the fun just doesn’t stop.
JRSI, I share your frustration here, and I’d join you wherever you decide to go.
NOP, I’m here for you and I come bearing pie!
Grandma Katie, it’s so good to see you back!
Jean… best wishes!
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By: delurkergurl on June 29, 2010
at 6:08 PM
John Boehner recommends the retirement age be extended to 70. I can see the merit in this since life expectancy has increased so much since social security was enacted EXCEPT… there aren’t enough jobs to support the work force we have, and adding 5 years to the expected work life is effectively increasing the number of people who NEED jobs. Near-seniors are already being pushed out of their jobs in droves to make way for cheaper, less experienced workers – or to screw them out of pensions. Where will all these extra workers go? They can’t ALL be Walmart greeters. Even if there weren’t a prejudice against hiring older workers, do we really want people who have worked all their lives expecting to retire at 65 to be keeping jobs from younger people with families to raise?
Then there’s the part about how Boehner wants to change such ‘entitlement programs’ TO PAY FOR WAR. Why didn’t paying for war ever matter before? Now it’s up to seniors and people who have been shafted out of their jobs by greedy and/or criminal corporate abuses to fund it? Seems slimy and politically manipulative. (Slimy is a word that looks funny spelled slimy or slimey but I looked it up and slimy seems to be the way…)
I heard the Kagan grilling was rough today. I didn’t have the chance to see any of it yet but it sounds like she handled it as well as she could. Really there isn’t a legitimate reason to block her so the grandstanding to grill her seems pretty slimy and politically manipulative.
Slimy and politically manipulative seems like a theme today, eh?
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By: delurkergurl on June 29, 2010
at 6:03 PM
local raspberries starting here, strawberries winding down. Sweet corn any day. Summer food is the best.
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By: Donna on June 29, 2010
at 3:35 PM
PFesser, thanks for the link, I did appreciate that.
Rae, I agree we are probably totally opposites idealogically and that is cool. Makes our lives and interaction much more interesting than a bunch of dittoheads running around. There is room for everyone here and on this planet, though all are not welcomed.
We waste enough money, food, and water in the USA to cover the rest of the world that is without. This planet is churning out fresh water (my theory is that we do not have merely a finite amount – goes along with the expanding earth model) and apparently oil, yet our greed and ignorance have kept us from being good stewards of these and the other rich resources provided for us. Who started this ownership bit, anyway?
Mmmmm….cherries. I love cherries! We are enjoying an abundance of red mangos, peaches, and avocados right now. And my lime tree has become a year-round producer of wonderfully aromatic and seedless juicy gems (91% water), making my ice tea so yummy and refreshing.
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By: poolman on June 29, 2010
at 3:18 PM
James, cherries & raspberries? YUM Heaven. I picked up some Ranier cherries today from WF. They are stashed in the veggie bin, behind the cukes w/some baby endive perched on top of them. It’s called “no I’m not sharing. Go buy your own”. Altho I did put a few out in a bowl . . .more like a decoy than a peace offering 🙂
The raspberries in the stores right now are totally tasteless. UGH.
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By: Greytdog on June 29, 2010
at 2:21 PM
Poolman, I disagree with just about everything you say, but I will defend to my death (well, maybe not that much) your right to say it.
Did I fail to mention the harpies chain smoking over the bar?
The way I see it, we’re on a planet that will support about a tenth of the number of people sitting on it. Everything is going to be running out. And the Empire? Oh, we all know it’s doomed. While our poor President attempts to keep the ship afloat, the folks who chopped the holes in the hull are whipping out the life boats and paddling like hell to Argentina. Of course we’re blaming the guy attempting to keep things going. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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By: Rae on June 29, 2010
at 2:12 PM
Poolman –
Scientific evidence for spiritual side of humanity
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-lanza/science-spirituality-what_b_624292.html?ir=Daily%20Brief
Very cool. Thought you’d appreciate it.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 29, 2010
at 2:06 PM
Chrystal, if you’re still out there reading…what about this for a “mine is bigger than yours” argument? This type of posturing is common in males and countries, also too. Though the reason we want to take out Iran is the currency of oil, we will fabricate terrorist related threats to us and Israel justifying reasons to attack. I hope not, but it does follow the Zionist/neocon agenda that we seem unable to squelch. It is frustrating at the least and deadly for our continued humanity. We have become the bully in the schoolyard. How can we not expect to be put in our place? I don’t see any good coming out of this.
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By: poolman on June 29, 2010
at 1:15 PM
You are absolutely welcome Grandma Katie, I’d love to celebrate life with you.
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By: no one's puppet on June 29, 2010
at 11:37 AM
This is funny stuff, thought I’d share. More entertainment from Mr Fish. “When I was 7 I wanted to be Angela Davis.” 🙂 Pass the pie!
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By: poolman on June 29, 2010
at 11:08 AM
Grandma Katie on June 27, 2010 at 6:40 PM
Scrolling through this site has become a chore and I often miss some important people along the way. But I did see your comment. It just took me a while to find it.
Grandkids can be a trial or a treat. I think you and I are fortunate to be able to watch ours move confidently into a world that almost beyond our comprehension. I believe your Grandson’s study in China will be a great benefit to him further down the line. I wish him well.
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By: jsri on June 29, 2010
at 10:56 AM
Grandma Katie: would love to have you!
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By: Donna on June 29, 2010
at 10:54 AM
Rae, I have often thought about that and I know those in power would love to control that resource. I’m certain they are working on ways of how to do just that. I expect they would capture the air and dole it out for profit, too, if they could manage that.
The resources of the world are here for ALL of the inhabitants. If not hoarded or abused, these resources are renewable and abundant enough to last. I guess I arrived on this orb a little late regarding the hoarding and abuse part. Water is life. That is what we look for in other worlds to determine if life could or did exist. Water is extremely resilient. It tries to balance and purify itself. It is so simple and yet so complex that its characteristics are not fully understood by our most educated scientists and scholars. Yet we make assumptions and calculations based on this substance all the time. Silly humans.
Peak oil is a scam fomented by those profitting from inflated oil prices. The price setters are the very ones promoting this myth. I think today’s US is the most duped and/or apathetic population ever. In this time of increasing knowledge with access to it by all, we have no excuses. Wake up people.
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By: poolman on June 29, 2010
at 10:54 AM
JeanΔ ¥ on June 28, 2010 at 3:31 PM
LOL! Actually the choice of words in my original assessment share a redundancy. Sort of for emphasis. I’d say yours is a bit stronger.
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By: jsri on June 29, 2010
at 10:47 AM
No one’s puppet and Donna
Please can I sit in and listen to celebration of life and cocktails?
Sounds so much more interesting than being baited by James.
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By: Grandma Katie on June 29, 2010
at 10:27 AM
Thanks PFessor53. Your thoughtful posts show you are intelligent and knowledgeable.
As much fun as this trading of insults has been, I have a real life to live, and it is time to pick cherries and raspberries.
Donna and delurkergurl, you are amusing. Lets do this again sometime.
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By: James on June 29, 2010
at 10:18 AM
Donna, I just don’t feel like being baited by James, he is nothing to me.
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By: no one's puppet on June 29, 2010
at 10:00 AM
The wonderful David Sedaris once said that you don’t get offended when someone says something about you unless you believe there’s truth to it. For example, if someone calls me a pelican, I don’t get offended. I just think “how odd. I know I’m not a pelican.”
Applying this bit of wisdom to James, I can happily view his opinion of me as mere pelican-izing.
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By: Donna on June 29, 2010
at 9:57 AM
No one’s puppet, why should you care what or whether I write if no one reads it? You are being illogical. Is logic another thing you didn’t learn in school?
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By: James on June 29, 2010
at 9:50 AM
you are on!!
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By: Donna on June 29, 2010
at 9:48 AM
Donna and delurkergurl, cocktails tonight? We can discuss how to identify an egomaniac with a persecution complex. But mostly we can just celebrate life.
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By: no one's puppet on June 29, 2010
at 9:41 AM
no one’s puppet –
“I say it doesn’t matter that someone goes long. What does it really matter, as long as it interests even a few people here, even one, or just the writer?
Your post would indicate to me that you support James’ posts, then, since even if things he writes about don’t interest anyone else, it’s OK because they please HIM. Is that correct? Otherwise you would seem to contradict yourself.
I think different things please different people. Long posts about travel, for example, are not my cup of tea and I just scroll by them, but I enjoy political analysis by thoughtful, obviously knowledgeable writers such a James. I think we should celebrate and enjoy both kinds of writing.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 29, 2010
at 9:38 AM
And then there are the drunks, who must take the dais to hurl insults at their fellow guests. This is some party.
Poolman, if we want to talk about water, how about privatization? That’s what scares me. Think peak oil is a problem? How about peak water?
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By: Rae on June 29, 2010
at 9:36 AM
Greytdog on June 29, 2010 at 5:39 AM
Thanks for the lead to the Stanley Fish article re student evaluations. Very interesting indeed.
When I first started teaching at the university level, student evaluations were non-existent. But gradually they began to appear in the form of dittoed sheets with preset comments set up like a T&F test with room at the bottom for comments. The comment space was rarely used because students believed that professors had mythic abilities to identify students through their handwriting. In those days we actually made students write long-hand responses to test questions (remember blue books?). As time went on, evaluations by students became more and more complex and eventually became a consideration in tenure decisions.
I think one could make the argument that grade inflation and slippage of academic standards can be partially attributed to use of these evaluations. Another factor may also be the gradual movement to more practical based curricula and the increased size of the college aged base. As more and more proprietary and career oriented schools grew in size, the competition for student dollars intensified. No college with the bottom line based on tuition is going to turn away or fail a student deliberately nor is it going to last very long if too many students fail particular courses.
Although I had more than 30 years as a teacher/evaluator I rarely comment on this issue because the system has evolved to such an extent as to be barely recognizable in terms of the standards of fifty years ago. However. I do feel that the unrestricted spread of anonymous teacher evaluations across the internet is basically unhelpful and could be devastating to any instructor, good, bad, or indifferent.
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By: jsri on June 29, 2010
at 9:33 AM
Then Donna, you need glasses. You have a lot to be modest about with your limited understanding of how the world works. If you squint really hard and look carefully in the mirror, you will see a fool.
delurkergurl, what planet are you from? That post tells us more about what passes for your twisted mind than it does about me. I hope you haven’t reproduced.
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By: James on June 29, 2010
at 9:26 AM
And you’re carping James, because I say it doesn’t matter that someone goes long. What does it really matter, as long as it interests even a few people here, even one, or just the writer?
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By: no one's puppet on June 29, 2010
at 9:13 AM
avotresante, I am familiar Dr Emoto’s work. Thanks for posting that. The article I posted mentions his experiments, but not in depth. I am surprised it isn’t more widely known. That evidence alone attests to the power of language and how it affects our world. We all take water for granted, yet it has such far-reaching effects in our lives. If we could fully comprehend water and all its properties including its source and impact in our entire world, we would be much closer to answering the essence of life itself, imo.
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By: poolman on June 29, 2010
at 8:42 AM
Rae,
The open bar scenario is hilarious! Thanks for the chuckle this morning. Back when I lived in New Orleans for a year, I often took in quite the scene on a Sunday morning when Bloody Mary’s
were 75 cents.
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By: vgman on June 29, 2010
at 8:25 AM
Rae, I agree with your last two posts.
Long posts are my failing, because I type fast, and don’t proof read. I’ll try to be briefer.
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By: James on June 29, 2010
at 8:09 AM
Well, James–then you are on the proverbial fool’s errand. I don’t think that your self-righteous prancing around (“I was right! I was right!”) illustrates anything other than your own stunted growth. You are rationalizing your own problems but I can’t imagine you have anything approaching the insight or self-awareness needed to see that.
I reach my conclusions based on what I see. Not on what some long-winded fool like yourself spouts.
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By: Donna on June 29, 2010
at 8:04 AM
To paraphrase, “I beat you because you deserve it. If you didn’t keep making me do it, I wouldn’t be forced to. I’m not a bad guy, really. It’s your fault.”
Classic abuser mantra.
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By: delurkergurl on June 29, 2010
at 8:04 AM
Jason, I’m sorry for your loss, and your friend’s family, and for your friend who died too soon.
PFessor, I agree with your comments about the economy.
Donna, my preening is only meant for people such as you to illustrate my point that you are trapped in a misguided ideology. Recall what you thought would happen during “hope and change” with today’s reality. You don’t have much to brag about.
No One’s Puppet. Your posts show you to be a puppet unable to see beyond the party line. You should change your pen name. Terse enough for you?
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By: James on June 29, 2010
at 7:54 AM
Well it’s starting to sound like an open-bar wedding reception in the wee hours of the morning around here. Personal attacks, silly posturing, people pushing and shoving for the limelight, a few folks stubbornly clinging to civility, others insisting upon “staying on topic,” and the fisticuffs in the corner. Colorful, everyone, colorful. Helen, where are you?
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By: Rae on June 29, 2010
at 7:25 AM
What do we do about the fact that people (aka “consumers”) choose poorly? That they’d rather have the flat-screen TV than save those dollars? That they’d rather have the “easy, fun” professor than the “really hard” one? Nothing! The worst thing we can do is let someone make all of the decisions for us, for our own good.
I am not a teacher by profession, although I did my stint as a TA in grad school, but I can speak to this issue in the corporate world. I believe you make a choice to do the best work you can and tell the truth, and if that makes you unpopular, so be it. On the other hand, if popularity (promotion, success) is what you desire, then go for it, but don’t expect to be esteemed for your integrity or to look back with pride on your work. We all choose, and we all live with the consequences.
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By: Rae on June 29, 2010
at 7:07 AM
Lori –
We had professor evals at my last University position. It turned the evaluation process into a mutual arse-kissing session. The professors were afraid to give honest evaluations of student progress, since evaluations of the professors determined pay – or even if they had a job the next year.
So basically, everybody had a big circular love session; everybody was smart; everybody was getting A’s; nobody learned anything, since one wouldn’t want to offend a student’s delicate sensibility by asking him things he didn’t know or making note of it on a progress evaluation.
Quite a brave new world.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 29, 2010
at 6:44 AM
Aw man Alaskapi, I’m sorry about your friend. Wayyyy to young!
We had the student eval discussion at a family get together. In attendance were a nursing, engineering and religion professor. Also a “just out of the block 3 day old bar passer”, 2 year med student, 4 year business major, and a freshman “I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up-er” and the parents who pay for it all, one set of parents are sp ed teachers.
No surprising results. The profs hated student evals, they echoed the same complaints highlighted in Greytdog’s article, The students loved them and the parents were in favor of using them for one tool in decision making.
I always think knowledge and information is useful in making a decision, the more I know the better. Do I follow blindly? NO! But when you look up a teacher and there are 100 student evals on one teacher, in a 2 year period, saying he never show up and his lectures are impossible to understand, that tells a story IMHO.
When I am paying $1500.00 for a class I would like to know that my student is getting a good value. I like the customer approach.
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By: lori on June 29, 2010
at 6:11 AM
Stanley Fish has an interesting column on student evaluations of teachers (mostly college).
http://nyti.ms/dBaEAM
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By: Greytdog on June 29, 2010
at 5:39 AM
Girls, girls, girls! Where are you?? I am having withdrawls! Need a new post! Don’t forget us loyal fans who live for your wisdom and wit!!!
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By: Anonymous on June 29, 2010
at 5:28 AM
Poolman,
This might be of interest to you. There is a lot more information out there on it.
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm
Regarding water being sensitive to our thoughts, I think that may be where the idea of “holy water” came from in the Catholic religion. I’m not sure, but I believe priests pray (thoughts) over water.
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By: avotresante on June 29, 2010
at 4:34 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I’m a little late for the porch party on the topic of education. I brought a couple of cherry cheesecakes. I hope, along with the pies, there will be enough to go around for everyone.
Back in the mid-40’s when I was in high school, I had 17 beginner piano pupils. (Teaching Little Fingers to Play!!!!!) My teacher preferred to concentrate on the more advanced students so she turned the beginners over to me. Fifty cents a lesson for 30 minutes. I had a few other kids that came and went, but the 17 stayed with me for three years. I taught after school, on Saturdays and one evening after dinner. My parents never had to give me any allowance all through high school. $8.50+ a week for a teenager was a lot of money in those days!
The best way to learn something really well yourself is to try to teach it to someone else! I also learned that one-size-fits-all doesn’t work too well as far as teaching music goes. Naturally, I pretty much used the same methods that my previous teachers had uses, but I had to get innovative to keep the kids’ interests up. For the most part, they would work like beavers to choose and lick a Gold Star and stick it on the page when they had learned to play a little piece well, the second time around. They usually messed up the first time around. I always gave them a second chance. If they memorized it, they got a second Gold Star!
With boys, I was up against the ‘Playing-the-Piano-Is-Sissy-Stuff wall.’ I did have some boys that did very well though. However, there was one little boy who was always late and obviously had not practiced. One time I was waiting for him. Watching him out the front window, I saw him stuff the Red Book of his music down a storm drain. When he came in, he told me he had lost his music. Of course, I had duplicates of all their music so we proceeded with the lesson anyway.
Afterward, I had a sit down with his parents that went like this: “I feel your son is not making the progress he should. Perhaps it is a personality conflict and you would do well to find another teacher for him. As it is, we are wasting my time and your money.” That was that. What I thought but didn’t tell them was, “Your kid is a no-talent, snot-nosed brat!”
Some of the kids who did best were the ones whose parents drove them to their lessons and sat in their cars in the driveway for the 30 minutes. In Northern Colorado, especially in winter and in the evening, it was cold!!!
I went off to college and on with my life so I don’t know what ultimately became of my pupils. I became very attached to them and loved them dearly for those three years. I also learned that I did not have a vocation for teaching in a classroom, trying to keep order and tailor the lessons to each individual kid. That’s tough! Private lessons, one-on-one are easy by comparison and very enjoyable I think. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the professionals who are able to teach in the classroom!
Down through the years I have had a handful of piano students off and on. I have also coached voice and worked with one grandson and his guitar. (He is going to be the next Segovia!) After all, music is music.
Financially in our family, it was not necessary for me to have a full roster. As the kids moved up in skill, I bumped the time up to 50 minutes. When the timer on the microwave went off, lesson’s over. It is usually a good idea to quit while you’re ahead.
My kids have been from all walks of life – socio-economic, gender, racial and ethnic. I have had students who came from single parent homes, one from divorce as the result of brutal physical abuse. I have had kids from intact stable families. Most people think that there is no value in something that is free, so I often only charged $10.00 a lesson. At that, even $40.00 a month for some young families was a strain on their budgets.
Two of my students out here now have their PhD’s in Science and Medicine from mainland universities. One other one is working on a Master’s in Theater Arts. I especially enjoy working with adults who took music lessons when they were kids and gave them up. Later in life they kicked themselves and want to continue. With a little review, we pick up right where they left off.
Musicianship of any instrument, including voice, requires between 5-10% talent and 90-95% work! You can pick up a guitar, get someone to tune it for you. learn three chords, get some amplifiers, hop around, wiggle, yell a lot and get on TV, no sweat.
Did you know there are 156 (that’s one-hundred-fifty-six) chords in Occidental Music? (Those 156 are in the root position only, not counting the inversions.) Oriental Music is a whole different ball game, which is why it sounds so different.
Artur Rubinstein, (the celebrated pianist, not Anton Rubinstein, the composer) once said, “If I don’t practice for one day, I know it. If I don’t practice for two days, the critics know it. If I don’t practice for three days, the public knows it!”
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 29, 2010
at 1:20 AM
We are all compassionate beings running on dreams and fortitude. If we focus all our energies into our work and career, a devastating emptiness can overcome us when that is taken away. Especially if that is how we rate our worthiness to others and ourselves. We need to realize that our job or occupation is not what life is all about. It isn’t easy to do. Men are especially wired that way. We reward occupational achievements and establish plateaus of success to strive for. We are prone to give chase to badges of honor.
We have been driven to a life of rewards based on performance and a perceived degree of entitlement. It isn’t our own fault that we have been groomed for these material and fantastic symbols of success. It has been the intent of those doling out the rewards to entrap us in the very system that serves to keep them in the driver seat.
Whether you are rich or poor, relationships and our interaction with others should be top life priorities. Strong relationships help us get through life’s storms. This journey is not for sissies. Focusing on others and their needs brings joy. Adding something of value to humankind or the planet gives life a greater meaning; in addition to the favor it can bring you. We are all equipped with various talents and skills.
We need to focus more on community and participate more in barter and other forms of commerce to remove the grasp they have on us nationally. States need to look at ways to sustain themselves and depend less on the federal government for solutions. Communities can better solve needs of local peoples. We have so out-sourced the necessities of life that we are easily becoming “fish out of water” when technology and government fail us. Where have the local farms gone?
When the banks quit lending for home improvements and home values began to plummet, that basically canned the pool construction industry in Arizona. Phoenix was booming with construction in 2005 and 2006. So much work was available that no one could keep up. Profits were good. Consumerism was in its fullest form.
Then things began to crumble, and in 2008, the whole rug was pulled out from under us. Today you can hardly sell pools for the actual construction costs – let alone a profit – to the few cash customers that have confidence to spend money. So even as my own boss, I do not have full control over my own career. We have had to seek other avenues for income. You get accustomed to that income stream, and freak when it slows or stops. We have to be more diverse and innovative to survive this time. Hopefully our natural instincts haven’t dulled too greatly, as we must depend on them to keep us intact for the rest of this ride.
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By: poolman on June 28, 2010
at 10:20 PM
alaskapi, I’m sorry for the loss of your friend. I truly wish he had had a better way to alleviate that depression and stress condition that likely overtook his heart. May God comfort you and his family, I pray.
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By: poolman on June 28, 2010
at 9:46 PM
Alaskapi, I’m sorry for the loss of your friend.
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By: judith on June 28, 2010
at 8:52 PM
Some write terse, tight, to the point;
others sagas.
The spiel buckling and bouncing,
trailing off course. Will it ever end?
Well if your here complaining,
it didn’t kill you.
Next complaint….
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By: no one's puppet on June 28, 2010
at 8:49 PM
My condolences to you and yours….
I have a friend who was just laid off from work a month ago.He seems ok..But with insurance needs and all, it can and does bring pressure.
Again from my heart ..my sympathy.
Craig
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By: craig on June 28, 2010
at 8:37 PM
alaskapi,
I’m so very sorry about the death of your friend, in the prime of life. Please accept my sincere sympathies for his family and for you, his friend.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 28, 2010
at 8:28 PM
I guess ‘provie’ was a cross between provide and provoke. Sorry.
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By: delurkergurl on June 28, 2010
at 8:17 PM
Alaskapi, I’m sorry for your loss & the loss of his family.
Donna, we don’t usually disagree, but I believe the professor chooses his words quite carefully and included Obama in his message on purpose, likely to provie a reaction. Score!
It’s ok, though… I agreed with you later.
Welcome, Jason B. I’m with you.
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By: delurkergurl on June 28, 2010
at 8:16 PM
alaskapi: sorry about your friend. That is a tragedy. My condolences.
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By: Donna on June 28, 2010
at 7:34 PM
James-
“Alashap” here… LOL
when you borrow , borrow the whole thing.
By borrowing a line you’ve lost the whole…
A friend of mine died today. A massive heart attack at age 56.
A good and decent man who lost his job of over 20 years last week… someone who suddenly had no place .
There are thousands of people in the Gulf whose whole worlds have changed forever and the place they had is gone.
While the repartee (at best) or the silly king-of-the-mountain (worst) posturing may be fun though tough on the blood pressure, it , in the end, doesn’t mean much…
Jason B- Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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By: alaskapi on June 28, 2010
at 7:23 PM
James –
I have come somewhat tentatively to the following POV:
The economy seems to me like a big flywheel that will run at a given speed based on the goods and services generated/unit time. The energy supply is production; it seems to me that it is work and work only that produces value, and periods of high unemployment are very damaging. (like now)
In my mind one should give little pushes and pulls on the flywheel, but very, very carefully because the flywheel responds very slowly, then over-responds and you are always behind the power curve. I think that in general, Smith’s unseen hand is much faster and more accurate. It is easy to screw the economy up, but very hard to enhance it.
Krugman seems to me to be one of those “fiddlers” who doesn’t trust millions of people each working for their own benefit, and instead thinks the elite smart-guys like himself can do a better job. He’s a Nobel prizewinner; I don’t claim any expertise, but he seems to be really on the wrong track to me most of the time.
I had a class in automated control systems in college and was building a robot at the time. I was very surprised how hard it was to make the robot just track a line. The problem is always Lag; if you try to correct an error and you are just a few milliseconds behind you will cause the system to go “divergent,” which is to say your inputs are out of phase and make the error worse and worse until the robot wrecks. To my eye the economy is exactly the same thing, and aggressive fiddling with it makes the normal business cycle much worse. If you ever see a pilot get behind in a fast-responding airplane, it is just the same, and he will crash very quickly.
One thing is for sure: the ability of a govt to print fiat money has led to the downfall of many civilizations; I hope ours is not one of them.
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By: PFesser on June 28, 2010
at 7:03 PM
Water rocks! 😎
“While most physicists and biochemists are still trying to understand the interactions of water molecules in terms of classical mechanics, a number of physicists have begun to think of the quantum properties of water.”
“What if water, the medium of all life, were sensitive to our thoughts? Does that mean human consciousness has shaped evolution, and can still do so?…
…it would not be beyond the pale to suggest that our ‘consciousness’- think of it as our coherent quantum field – could become entangled with that of water, thereby influencing the structure of the water. Some 99% of all the molecules in our body are water in any case.”
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By: poolman on June 28, 2010
at 6:59 PM
OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HELEN!!!
PLEASE POST SOMETHING SOON AND GIVE THESE COMMENTORS SOMETHING ELSE TO FOCUS ON!!!
I BEG YOU!!!!!!!!
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By: Jason B. on June 28, 2010
at 6:31 PM
Craig/Gregorio:
1. The emotional maturity of a 2 year old who hasn’t had a nap.
2. The intelligence of a garden slug.
3. The originality of a refrigerator magnet.
4. So frantic for attention that he can’t see how pathetic the “ok, you don’t like Craig–now I’m Gregorio!” routine was.
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By: Donna on June 28, 2010
at 5:32 PM
If only he was CG. We could reboot.
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By: judith on June 28, 2010
at 5:19 PM
WELL IF YOU LIKES IT ONCE YOU’LL LOVE IT AGAIN…
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri on June 27, 2010 at 12:11PM,
We dined this evening on nothing but corn-on-the-cob, fresh out of the fields. Yummmm!
If you don’t mind, jsri, I would like to add to your post on your and your wife’s trip to China some 10 years before ours, especially regarding food. This is a cut and paste jobbie from my narrative of our trip to China.
Our lunches and dinners were at various local restaurants served in the traditional style. We were seated at a round table for ten. Often strangers were seated together. It made for a congenial and festive atmosphere. In the center of the table was invariably a slightly raised platform that revolved like a ‘lazy susan’. I immediately dubbed it the ‘roulette table’.
The waiters or waitresses brought out platter after platter of dishes and placed them on the ‘roulette table’, which we slowly revolved and then helped ourselves. We learned early on not to give the ‘roulette table’ a swift push or it could whirl platters off, knocking over glasses and such! Half the time I had no idea exactly what I was eating, but each dish was presented in an appetizing way and for the most part, delicious. Contrary to what we in the West are used to, a big tureen of soup was one of the last courses. Desserts were platters of fresh fruits and cookies.
As we traveled more and more toward the Szechwan Province area of the country, the more spicy hot the food became. I can only handle mildly spiced food but my husband loves it. The spicier the better! So he became my official food taster. One day our guide announced that we were going to a special restaurant for twenty-one dumplings for lunch. For lunch?
I was somewhat skeptical because the only dumplings I was familiar with were Southern Fried Chicken and dumplings. The centerpiece platter on the ‘roulette table’ had an intricate design of a fish made out of thin slices of a ‘1000-year-old’ egg (???), a rare Chinese delicacy. None of us ate any of it however. We just admired the artistry of the arrangement.
Sure enough, out came a platter with ten delectable, little bite-sized morsels, one for each of us, followed by twenty more platters, one at a time. Each dumpling was obviously made by hand of paper-thin rice dough and stuffed with various tidbits of meat, fish and/or vegetables. On one platter, the dumpling was shaped like a chicken. Of course it was stuffed with chicken. Another platter was on a bed of beaten egg whites to look like snow. On top were darling little dumplings in the shape of penguins, obviously stuffed with some kind of fish. They were tiny little works of culinary art! I could visualize someone sitting in the kitchen by the hour, laboriously but lovingly fashioning those dainty delights. We popped each one in our mouths to savor before it was gone in a flash. All that labor intensive preparation for one short moment of gustatory pleasure!
Later, I began thinking about Marco Polo, if indeed it was Marco Polo. Apparently is it somewhat disputed as to whether he actually made it all the way to China. But somebody did!
It occurred to me that along with spaghetti and noodles, perhaps Chinese dumplings were brought to Europe and eventually evolved into ravioli and tortolini in Italy and then possibly to Poland as pierogi.
The same could be said of European medieval walled cities and castles with moats around them. Food and urban historians would know more about that than I. But it is also possible that mankind comes up with similar notions irrespective of time or geographic links.
The ancient parts of some Chinese cities have similar walls and moats but usually on a much larger scale than their European counterparts. The huge Tian’anmen Square and the Forbidden City in Beijing are examples. Most of the European cities we have visited, at least the old medieval parts, were built around a square with walls and moats. Did people exchange ideas and then pattern their own food and cities around those concepts? Or do human ideas just happen in different parts of the world by trial and error on parallel paths? I don’t know.
We tramped around a portion of the Great Wall of China from Badaling Pass about 45 miles northwest of Beijing. (Ancient Peking.)Considering the times in which it was built and without any visible high tech or mechanized tools, it is astonishing to think of the untold thousands of people who toiled together in the effort with such precision.
The architect of the Great Wall calculated the number of bricks needed for construction with absolute accuracy. According to history, he was chided for not requisitioning more. So he ordered one extra. When the Wall was completed, there was one left over. That brick is prominently displayed on top of the Great Wall at Badaling.
We have a certificate attesting to the fact that we have been to and walked the Great Wall of China. It has our names on it and is signed by three authentic officials in Chinese characters, (not stamped signatures.) It is 9 ½ “ X 12 ¼” in size and suitable for framing. Unfortunately, we don’t have any more wall space in our house to hang it.
It is truly an incredible experience to climb and tread the path of antiquity.
Aloha! 😉
Auntie Jean
No offense Jean. I’m sure its a great river ride if you can afford the ticket.
I’ll have to settle for roaring rapids at 6 flags.
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By: Gregorio on June 28, 2010
at 5:15 PM
Oh God donna you have my rapt attention.
Please enlighten us all.
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By: Gregorio on June 28, 2010
at 5:12 PM
Again, Craig/Gregorio simply doesn’t read before blithering on. I was indicating that I thought jsri was being unduly harsh in her interpretation. But, of course, C/G doesn’t really care about being accurate.
As for Jean, she is interesting. She doesn’t go on for the sake of proving how “smart” and “informed” she is. And, most importantly, she never–not once–has preened and strutted and carried on about how she is “right” and acted like a bratty five year old. Difference: Jean’s posts are interesting, James’ posts are not. Of course, James is downright fascinating compared to C/G (“pay attention to me…please pay attention to me…”).
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By: Donna on June 28, 2010
at 4:29 PM
My God Donna..are you the only one who can criticize the President, and be able to without question?
I think he meant “genteel” Judith.
And as for James post..its just as long, if not shorter as Jean’s summation of her trip down the Chinese river.
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By: Gregorio on June 28, 2010
at 4:23 PM
genteel? gentle? generic?
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By: Donna on June 28, 2010
at 3:54 PM
Prig & prick are both words; different meanings, both may be applicable at times.
However, I’m still puzzling over ‘a gentile poorhouse’ (3:12PM). As opposed to?
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By: judith on June 28, 2010
at 3:39 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri on June 28, 2010 at 2:15PM,
jsri, you rarely misspell words or make typos. Did you mean ‘supercilious prick’?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 28, 2010
at 3:31 PM
James–I know I have asked you in the past to have the courtesy to not dominate the blog with Wagner-ian posts. I know that others have done likewise.
While I do scroll past everything you say, I reiterate that your continued insistence on going on ad infinitum is thoughtless. I doubt you’ll stop (since you are so adament that you want people to know that you are “right”) but might you consider that not every word of yours is exactly a pearl?
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By: Donna on June 28, 2010
at 3:18 PM
Pfessor and Poolman, I think Paul Krugman may be a disciple of John Mayard Keynes, an economist who believed in reduced spending and higher taxes during good times, and lower taxes with deficite spending or pump priming during recessions . The extra money and lower taxes would put a country in debt, but it would give people more cash to spend and businesses the wherewithal to invest in extra means of production.
The additional economic activity would create new jobs and the economy would prosper again. Taxes could rise during good times, and the government could reduce spending.
I’ve read enough of his columns to know he has criticized the Obama plan for not going far enough. So when Krugman makes such predictions after the G20 delegates decided to reduce spending he is expressing a bias influenced by his economic theories.
I think we needed to spend a lot of money to save our economy from a depression, but most was wasted. Rather than invest and give tax incentives to businesses, the money supported governments and their employees. Most are non-productive economic entities, and live on our taxes. Though supporting governments and their labor unions helps send some money through the economy, it doesn’t create many new jobs, and those it saves depend on ever more billions of tax money to exist. Other plans like cap and trade will make small business job creation even harder than it is.
Republicans and Democrats have spent us into a gentile poor house because it is easier to molify voters than it is to tell the truth. The Democrats put us into warp drive, and forced more people to pay attention. In that respect, Obama created the Tea Party movement.
I think Krugman is right. We cannot stop spending at our current levels without causing a crash, but we can’t afford to pay the bills. Baby boomers by their huge numbers essentially bought with borrowed money our wonderful social welfare states, but now they are becoming recipients. What happens when millions of new retirees ask for their Social Security checks and expect Medicare to pay their medical bills? European and other countries are beginning to feel the same pain.
Our economy has not begun to adjust to the drain they will impose, before it creates even more entitlements. I think we are stuck, and anything we do will end badly. Read about the Roman crash of 33 BC.
Deflation and inflation are equally bad and can send our economy into a downward spiral. Violence will surely follow. Several groups, including some Wall Street businessmen tried to involve the American Legion in a coup against FDR during the Depression. Communists also plotted to over throw the government. Heartland farmers turned violent and even lynched at least one judge. They also set up road blocks. We know what happened during the sixties and early seventies.
I don’t know what we should do. We may be at the point where we must stop spending no matter the personal hardship. Things were really bad during a 1923 depression, I think, and the economy recovered quickly without large government deficites.
Zero growth sounds all right in theory, but there could be no new economic consumers or everyone’s share would lesson over time. Poolman said it well. We are living in a house of cards, and I fear it is coming down.
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By: James on June 28, 2010
at 3:12 PM
jsri: I’d respectfully disagree with you. I don’t agree with all that Jim says–far from it. But I think he was directing his “shot” more at Bush than at the current President.
Having said that, I have never had the sense the President Obama doesn’t admit when he’s mistaken about something–there’s a very self-deprecating quality to him. But that’s neither here nor there.
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By: Donna on June 28, 2010
at 3:00 PM
PFesser53 on June 28, 2010 at 1:21 PM
I’m curious.
Why do you always take a verbal potshot at someone in every comment you make here? Was it really necessary in your tribute to Senator Byrd to take a crack at President Obama? Since you first barged into this site some weeks ago that seems to be your MO. Your comments consistently make you sound like a supercilious prig and I’m beginning to wonder if that is the image you really want to convey.
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By: jsri on June 28, 2010
at 2:15 PM
PFesser53 thank you for that wonderful tribute to Sen. Byrd.
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By: Greytdog on June 28, 2010
at 1:42 PM
They tell me that Senator Byrd has died. I would like to humbly offer the following observation:
I grew up in West Virginia, and of all the things that unfortunate state has to be ashamed for, he is not one. He was a great, humble man who learned from his mistakes and acknowledged them in full measure – and unlike our current President or (shudder) the one before, he LEARNED from his mistakes – and those of others. He was a true scholar, a true believer in mankind and a true lover of the Constitution – all things of which our current and past administrations are woefully innocent, including the “Constitutional Professor” now in office.
But most of all, he was a truly great man – and I say this of a man whose political party I always opposed. He was the only one of their number I unashamedly admired.
Good-bye Senator. May you bequeath some of your wisdom to those in the Senate you leave behind, that they may end these shameful wars.
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By: PFesser53 on June 28, 2010
at 1:21 PM
James,
I’d like to get to know you better and converse
You can e-mail me at the following…
leslie.warren1950@gmail.com
Thanks,
I’ll have a test for you to make sure its you..
FreshAir
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By: FreshAir on June 28, 2010
at 1:16 PM
JeanΔ ¥ on June 28, 2010 at 2:03 AM
Our experiences in China were very similar to yours. Only in our case, the Chinese hosts determined where we should go. We had little control over our three week itinerary. But that was okay because we visited many of the same tourist destinations you hit plus a few that are visited less often. The only hitch came in our visit to Chengdu in China’s Sichuan Province in the southwestern region. We spent a whole day at the airport ready to leave but had to watch as engine parts that were spread around the tarmac gradually got installed into the engine of a tired old 707 that was scheduled to be our chariot out of there. We practically kissed the ground when we finally arrived in Guanzhou, our final stop before Hong Kong.
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but the Chinese philosophy regarding food is that it should please all the senses. They never failed on sight, taste, smell or feel but I never figured out how it could please the sense of hearing except perhaps for the sighs of contentment that accompanied the servings. But at the same time, we often wondered about the servers who kept the giant lazy susan supplied and what they thought about the huge amount of waste that was often left behind. I suspect that a lot of it made its way out the back door.
And you are right, Chinese dumplings are a separate art form at all levels.
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By: jsri on June 28, 2010
at 12:49 PM
Pfesser, I sure don’t have any expertise in the science of economics. I don’t think historically we are educated well in that respect I think much of that is intentional. Even those educated in that field of economics do not agree with each other when it comes to predictions and factors regarding those projected outcomes. IMO, a zero inflation rate would be ideal, with DEflation occurring as readily as INflation, if a stable balance and consistency were the intended goal.
Similar to capitalism, zero growth is considered stagnant and undesireable, yet appears more logically sustainable to me. Like bureaucratic budgets, more is desired and considered good. Those that control the money and the markets use them to manipulate us and have for quite some time, I have observed. It is pretty much a “house of cards”. Now that our dollar isn’t backed by silver or gold and its value is tied to oil, it really gets slippery.
I think that is the primary reason this government has been ramping up the strategic global takeover it has, as outlined in the early PNAC’s stated goals, and in Brezinski’s book “The Grand Chessboard”, which btw is available online free. If oil is not a limited resource (as presented by Professor Thomas Gold and the Russians seem to have accepted), or if countries such as Iran do not accept the dollar as the currency for oil (as Saddam refused to do), true deflation of the dollar would collapse our weakened economy and greatly assist the ongoing trend of the rest of the world in taking over our resources and physical assets.
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By: poolman on June 28, 2010
at 12:10 PM
Juneau Joe –
I don’t know how to take Krugman. My heritage is Scottish, and we always eschew debt unless there is clearly a favorable risk/benefit. On the one hand it seems to me that it is important to keep the wheels of commerce moving, since wealth is only created by people’s working – so the idea of borrowing/spending during economic downturns makes some sense to me just to keep the machinery going until times improve.
However, it would also seem to me that there is an increased risk during that period, because you are spending money you don’t have – and after all, it was a lack of financial restraint that got you there in the first place, so…maybe austerity is the right thing.
Another thing that has always bothered me is inflation. Why is it that these economists and politicians think 4% inflation is “just right” and zero inflation or, god forbid – DEflation is anathema. Why is that? It would seem to me that a sound dollar – like we basically had before Nixon completely took us off the gold standard – worked the best.
Anybody here with a better understanding of econ?
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 28, 2010
at 11:08 AM
Scary stuff, Juneau Joe–thanks for the link.
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By: Donna on June 28, 2010
at 10:49 AM
The Third Depression!! Coming? Krugman
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By: JuneauJoe on June 28, 2010
at 10:39 AM
Alashap, on May 24, wrote “sanctimonious obnoxious finds its voice in patronizing put downs phony ‘good manners’ and upside down logic.” I don’t know if he/she was referring to me or not, but I try to be patronizing and sancitmonious” when people insult me or someone else who disagrees with them. Even when I am right, I enjoy telling such people “I told you so.” If they are nice to me, I am nice to them. I also try to be polite about it.
I have been in physical combat, and some of the same principals apply to verbal conceptual wars.
“Can’t you tell that this is all just a contest?
The one who wins will be the one who hits the hardest.” Pink
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By: James on June 28, 2010
at 10:29 AM
Someone mentioned the technicians who made derogotary comments during Sarah Palan’s speech because they didn’t know a live mic was close enough to hear them.
According to a blogger, the same thing happened to German Chancelor Merkle at the G20 meeting as President Obama attempted to lead the world down the road to perdition.
She apparently called him an “impudent brat.” “… and when the old gal got down and dirty,”… she said ” Er ist ein wirklich Shasfashaker!” I don’t speak German, so someone who does can translate.
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By: James on June 28, 2010
at 9:07 AM
Thanks Poolman. I am still on dial up. I read one of articles and never read anything like it. It’s true the earth collects matter as it moves through space, but probably not enough to give the earth mass enough to expand. Anyway, Earth might shrink as some stars do when they fall in upon themselves. But what if other heavenly bodies were also expanding? Would that mean the universal force of gravity was slowly weakening and less able to hold such objects together? Would the earth eventually burst? Its fun to speculate. I won’t give the article the comments it deserves right now, because my post is already too long.
PFessor, I know Helen Thomas has Lebanese roots, and I also didn’t believe she should be fired over her comments. Her attitudes were common knowledge among other reporters. Some probably share her beliefs. Maybe that explains why she was willing to say what she did to a camera phone.
She has as much right to be anti- semetic as someone has to be prejudiced against Mormons. She is also wrong. Clarence Page, who knows how it feels to be on the wrong side of bigotry rightly says it needs to be condemned whenever it appears. The goal, according to Page, should be to make the person self evaluate, but more likely the person would merely become more discrete. That is better than nothing.
I like your class-ist story. Here is how I learned I had something in common with Michael Savage. The fall after I left the service, I entered an accelerated Masters program leading to a PHD at the University of Iowa. At my first orientation party, several students compared their financial aid programs and asked about mine. I said I was there on what was left of the G. I. Bill . That part of the room became quiet, and a young man said “You don’t belong here you fascist. We’ll get rid of you!”
Four semesters later, I had my M.A. with thesis, accreditation to teach in community college and nine hours toward a PHD.
A job counselor told a Navy friend in the same program he should lie about his military service if he wanted a good job. Employers didn’t want to hire Vietnam Era veterans, especially if we were of the wrong race and gender. I checked and someone told me the same. Several of my veteran friends transferred to law school. I dropped out to farm, and I promised myself that insofar as it was possible I would never again let others determine my destiny.
Talk show host Michael Savage said he trained for ten years at Berkley to be a college professor. He earned a PHD, but no one hired him because he was politically incorrect. They told him universities were looking for blacks and women to create a more diverse environment. Actually he could have found a job if he had looked outside of California. An Arkansas college would have hired me after an interview.
He became a talk show host, and I became a farmer. We both prospered.
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By: James on June 28, 2010
at 8:23 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri on June 27, 2010 at 12:11PM,
We dined this evening on nothing but corn-on-the-cob, fresh out of the fields. Yummmm!
If you don’t mind, jsri, I would like to add to your post on your and your wife’s trip to China some 10 years before ours, especially regarding food. This is a cut and paste jobbie from my narrative of our trip to China.
Our lunches and dinners were at various local restaurants served in the traditional style. We were seated at a round table for ten. Often strangers were seated together. It made for a congenial and festive atmosphere. In the center of the table was invariably a slightly raised platform that revolved like a ‘lazy susan’. I immediately dubbed it the ‘roulette table’.
The waiters or waitresses brought out platter after platter of dishes and placed them on the ‘roulette table’, which we slowly revolved and then helped ourselves. We learned early on not to give the ‘roulette table’ a swift push or it could whirl platters off, knocking over glasses and such! Half the time I had no idea exactly what I was eating, but each dish was presented in an appetizing way and for the most part, delicious. Contrary to what we in the West are used to, a big tureen of soup was one of the last courses. Desserts were platters of fresh fruits and cookies.
As we traveled more and more toward the Szechwan Province area of the country, the more spicy hot the food became. I can only handle mildly spiced food but my husband loves it. The spicier the better! So he became my official food taster. One day our guide announced that we were going to a special restaurant for twenty-one dumplings for lunch. For lunch?
I was somewhat skeptical because the only dumplings I was familiar with were Southern Fried Chicken and dumplings. The centerpiece platter on the ‘roulette table’ had an intricate design of a fish made out of thin slices of a ‘1000-year-old’ egg (???), a rare Chinese delicacy. None of us ate any of it however. We just admired the artistry of the arrangement.
Sure enough, out came a platter with ten delectable, little bite-sized morsels, one for each of us, followed by twenty more platters, one at a time. Each dumpling was obviously made by hand of paper-thin rice dough and stuffed with various tidbits of meat, fish and/or vegetables. On one platter, the dumpling was shaped like a chicken. Of course it was stuffed with chicken. Another platter was on a bed of beaten egg whites to look like snow. On top were darling little dumplings in the shape of penguins, obviously stuffed with some kind of fish. They were tiny little works of culinary art! I could visualize someone sitting in the kitchen by the hour, laboriously but lovingly fashioning those dainty delights. We popped each one in our mouths to savor before it was gone in a flash. All that labor intensive preparation for one short moment of gustatory pleasure!
Later, I began thinking about Marco Polo, if indeed it was Marco Polo. Apparently is it somewhat disputed as to whether he actually made it all the way to China. But somebody did!
It occurred to me that along with spaghetti and noodles, perhaps Chinese dumplings were brought to Europe and eventually evolved into ravioli and tortolini in Italy and then possibly to Poland as pierogi.
The same could be said of European medieval walled cities and castles with moats around them. Food and urban historians would know more about that than I. But it is also possible that mankind comes up with similar notions irrespective of time or geographic links.
The ancient parts of some Chinese cities have similar walls and moats but usually on a much larger scale than their European counterparts. The huge Tian’anmen Square and the Forbidden City in Beijing are examples. Most of the European cities we have visited, at least the old medieval parts, were built around a square with walls and moats. Did people exchange ideas and then pattern their own food and cities around those concepts? Or do human ideas just happen in different parts of the world by trial and error on parallel paths? I don’t know.
We tramped around a portion of the Great Wall of China from Badaling Pass about 45 miles northwest of Beijing. (Ancient Peking.)Considering the times in which it was built and without any visible high tech or mechanized tools, it is astonishing to think of the untold thousands of people who toiled together in the effort with such precision.
The architect of the Great Wall calculated the number of bricks needed for construction with absolute accuracy. According to history, he was chided for not requisitioning more. So he ordered one extra. When the Wall was completed, there was one left over. That brick is prominently displayed on top of the Great Wall at Badaling.
We have a certificate attesting to the fact that we have been to and walked the Great Wall of China. It has our names on it and is signed by three authentic officials in Chinese characters, (not stamped signatures.) It is 9 ½ “ X 12 ¼” in size and suitable for framing. Unfortunately, we don’t have any more wall space in our house to hang it.
It is truly an incredible experience to climb and tread the path of antiquity.
Aloha! 😉
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 28, 2010
at 2:03 AM
Don’t send them to the publisher yet. This ought to put a light on the oil industry. Once again, everybody adjust your theories. Knowledge is power, people. This ‘splains some stuff…
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By: poolman on June 27, 2010
at 9:04 PM
Time to rewrite those science books again. Everybody adjust your theories again to fit with the facts.
But, but, but… I love Lucy…. 😉
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By: poolman on June 27, 2010
at 8:45 PM
Missed you Grandma Katie! You did tell us a while back you had computer problems, so I was no overly alarmed over your silence. But still, I did worry a teeny teeny tad.
jsri, glad you are still posting.
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By: Easier on June 27, 2010
at 7:18 PM
jsri – read your post about Shanghai and your grandson.
My second grandson has his jr. year study abroad coming up. And he has chosen to go study in Shanghai. He and his girl friend have gotten their passports and other paperwork done and ready to go!
So Craig has an alter ego. As if we hadn’t figured that out long ago.
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By: Grandma Katie on June 27, 2010
at 6:40 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Grandma Katie and jsri,
Soooooo very glad to see you back, Grandma Katie!!! Yep, your WWGKD still works just fine for me.
And jsri, thank heaven you didn’t desert us!!!
This was in yesterday’s local newspaper ‘Celebrity Cipher’, (Cryptogram.) Lena Horne said:
“You have to be taught to be second class. You’re not born that way.”
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 27, 2010
at 4:53 PM
Hello HoneyJorumples! I read a post from you earlier on an older M&H thread. Hope life is well for you.
Just in for refreshment…back outside for me to finish moving the compost pile. We’re receiving some serious solar energy here, adding vitamin D in mass(ive) amounts, losing sodium and liquids to the atmoshere. Giving gravity a fight for its continual abuse of us bipeds. I think g is winning with my flesh, but I can experience that glorious weighlessness in spirit. 😉
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By: poolman on June 27, 2010
at 4:45 PM
Test one two three – posted earlier today but I don’t see it here. Don’t see the post I responded to, either.
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By: HoneyJorumples on June 27, 2010
at 4:19 PM
Greytdog,
So are you a Doctor?
Vet?
Volunteer?
“I’ve also see the “business/insurance” end from the years I spent researching and writing medical/legal summations for workers comp.”
A LAWYER ?
I guess that qualifies you to rant “bite me”
Although I’m still trying to figure out how.
I’ve filmed in a surgical suite during surgery,
Ran my wife’s first private practice and filed insurance.
But I go back to your original post which I saw you denigrating young doctors as getting by and let loose on humanity with barely passing their tests to become doctors.
And I quote:
“As for doctors passing certification, all that means is that they managed to stumble through medical school, stayed awake long enough to sit for exams, and didn’t kill anyone during their residency. Lots of incompetent doctors out there”
So your point is…. “bite me”..?
I’d say there are an equal number of politicians as well that are incompetent, Reed, Pelosi and Franks.
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By: Craig on June 27, 2010
at 12:56 PM
lori on June 25, 2010 at 8:10 PM
Thanks for your kind comment.
Number 1 Grandson is really psyched and ready to go. But first he will be spending his summer as a counselor at a YMCA camp. He used to go there when he was in Junior high but he did such a great job with the younger kids, the camp director invited him to be a counselor when he turned 16. This is his third year. He gets to do a bunch of physical stuff like swimming, boating surfing etc. He’s a pretty cool dude.
His college apps didn’t have his class standing because he had transferred when he was entering his Junior year of HS and I think he suffered as a result of that. At graduation they finally placed him in the top 1%.
But he is happy with his decision. I think he’ll do okay no matter what he finally decides to do. But we’ll miss him.
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By: jsri on June 27, 2010
at 12:25 PM
Jean:
Yippee! I’ve got a day off and some time to catch up a bit.
Our trip to China was the year before the Tiananmen Square uprising. It was arranged via a Fulbright Grant through my wife’s school and I went along as a spouse. It was supposed to be a teacher to teacher program so I was surprised to get notified on the night we were leaving home that I had been invited to give a talk at the Beijing University School of Aeronautics and Astronautics about some accreditation work I was doing at the time. I pulled together a quickie presentation, with a bunch of 35mm slides knowing that I would be talking through an interpreter.
It was a unique experience. My hosts were unfailingly polite but I was not sure how much I was getting through to them because the interpreter was obviously struggling. At one point I made an off-hand comment to him and heard several chuckles from the audience. Oops! Stick to the script.
Dinner was a riot. I was presented with a plate containing a giant carp but I passed on the eyeball delicacy. But I did enjoy the Chinese beer in the Mickey Mouse glasses. I can’t tell you what I ate, because much of it was unrecognizable. But the creatively displayed dumplings were absolutely delicious.
When my wife’s group toured elementary classrooms they were very primitive, looking like something you might see on a movie set depicting the 1800s. And they were large, 40 or more seats in each room. But there was a overarching primary resolve among all the people we met there that things were going to get better.
The streets of Shanghai in 1988 were relatively quite. The most obvious sound was that of tower cranes erecting dozens upon dozens of high rise buildings. But crossing streets was a hazard with swarms of bicycles, ridden by Mao suited riders, literally by the thousands, whirring by. Automobiles were rare and were usually taxis.
So, it is totally mind numbing to me when I see documentaries and photos of Shanghai today. The progress made over the past 20 years is staggering. But it was clear that they were heading in this direction. It is the time frame rather than the progress itself that is astonishing
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By: jsri on June 27, 2010
at 12:11 PM
I take your point alaskapi.. I am still mulling over the conflicts I have about that notion..
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By: lori on June 27, 2010
at 9:20 AM
Grandma Katie I have missed you!
Rae, we have made some progress, over 15 million more people will now have health insurance that didn’t a year ago. Our economy is BETTER… not great….. but better.. We are leaving Iraq, and dadt is at least inching towards extinction.
Change couldn’t come fast enough for me… but we have made some progress.
I’m pleased to see I have kept your red pencil sharp vgman! someone “gots” ta keep an eye on me, and just think with out my posts you would be bored out of your mind! LOL LOL .. thanks for watching me……LOL I gotta love ya.. xo
Missin my M&H too!
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By: lori on June 27, 2010
at 8:55 AM
Helen and Margaret-
Hoping all is well with you. Like others , I grow concerned when so much time goes by without hearing from you…
lori-
There IS a very real disdain for education, particularly public education, in certain groups of Americans.
Like all human activities, it’s full of human beings, competing philosophies and notions.
For those looking back to small schools a hundred or more years ago- yes, many small communities grew to value and support schools to teach reading and writing and “do sums” but they were not ideal schools. Those school marms mostly had to leave their jobs if they married as a woman’s real place was in her home.( they also could not vote. )
Also, many children in rural areas were yanked out of school, particularly girls, after they learned to read and write ( around 3rd grade ) as they were needed at home.
My paternal grandmother, born 1896, was one of those girls who were taken out of school at age 8. My maternal grandmother, born 1899, was sent to a boarding school for Alaska Natives and ended up with a 9th grade education- quite a feat in those days ( and one that had a terrible price- which is another story )
Both grandfathers, born in the 1880s, finished 8th grade.
Dualing philosophies about education being fundamental to informed citizenry and a vibrant democracy and useful only insofar as it allows one to progress economically have set the scene since the early 1900s.
It was a huge change to REQUIRE education for all children .
It’s a work in progress still and one marked by dark failures as well as successes.
I do not think there is one answer to the problems , nor is there a single problem which solved would unravel all the other issues into obvious resolution.
Disproportionate funding, disagreements over what kids need to know v what they should know, no easy way to seperate good teachers from crummy ones…
There is a lingering attitude from the “all they need to know is the 3Rs” which resurfaced about 30 years ago which certainly has evolved into disdain for education in many places.
I live in my state capital… we have had a steady dropout rate near 25 % for many, many years. The system has not been able to adjust in a way that meets the community’s stated desire that all children complete high school to prepare themselves to be sensible citizens and enter the job market with certain basic skills.
I think that is because we don’t work hard enough to see what things work and what doesn’t. We get lost in programs, personalities, and general hogwash…
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By: alaskapi on June 27, 2010
at 8:49 AM
Finally I am back! Weeks of computer troubles.
Son spent lots of time trying to figure out the problem and finally brought me a laptop.
pent over an hour last night catching up on all the latest posts.
It seems my New Years resolutions are still good
1. Scroll past the trolls
2. Ignore
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By: Grandma Katie on June 27, 2010
at 8:38 AM
@Margot,
I’m worried, too. But I’m sure it wasn’t a spat. The posts have been slowing down dramatically over the last year, and besides, life-long friends don’t fall out over spats.
Like you, I hope they are well. Maybe, like the rest of us, they’re feeling a bit disappointed by how things have turned out after the (in retrospect) irrational euphoria of the election, and are just wondering whether there is anything that can be done about the mess we spent the last 20 years creating. What do you say if you see doom on the horizon? Maybe you just focus on the grandkids and stop thinking about it.
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By: Rae on June 27, 2010
at 7:27 AM
I don’t know about anybody else, but I’m getting worried about Helen and Margaret. I really hope this post wasn’t a spat (it sounded like one in the very beginning – to me anyway). I’m hoping they are both well and just too busy to post.
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By: Margot on June 27, 2010
at 6:31 AM
Still skeptical? Here’s a good read if you’re able to consider alternate ideas providing logical solutions. This is a pretty amazing theory that I was never introduced to, yet has been kicked around for centuries. Maybe there has been a good reason to keep us in the dark. Maybe it’s time to retire the dead dinosaur fairy tale. Peak oil scam – Expanding Earth – Orgone swirls
James, these are articles, not videos, FYI. In case you are still on dial up.
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By: poolman on June 26, 2010
at 10:57 PM
Just poppin’ in quick like to let Auntie Jean know that she & hubby are in my best wishes only list!
And Craig – actually yes I do have “intimate knowledge” – I worked in the Orthopedic and BioMedical Research depts at the University of Florida before switching over to the School of Veterinary Medicine to work at what I really loved which was large & small animal ER surgery. But I oversaw med students, interns, residents, worked alongside researchers, surgeons, and nurses. Pulled 72 hours shifts and always seemed to land the ER surgical rotations. . . I learned from the residents and interns how to grab 8 hrs of sleep in 15 minutes, often served as the sounding board for the med students on my rotation as they decided their specialties. . . most of which were often predicated on how much income and how quickly that income could be generated. I saw really fantastic doctors leave the profession and the really crappy ones have successfully financial ones. Same with the vet school – luckily for me, one of my favorite animal surgery rotation students decided to set up practice in my town – and now is my animals’ doctor. Wouldn’t trust them to anyone else. . . and yes, when they have surgery, or if a rescue has surgery, I’m scrubbing up to assist. I’ve also see the “business/insurance” end from the years I spent researching and writing medical/legal summations for workers comp. So basically this all boils down to a two word phrase: Bite Me.
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By: Greytdog on June 26, 2010
at 9:50 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
We wus robbed in the World Cup.
If Margaret and Helen don’t get back here with a new post soon, tell you what I’m gonna do.
Pretty soon the national media will start heating up on why we should abhor, despise and loathe China. It’s a Communist country and therefore a wicked godless place. Their people are ignorant and/or stupid, don’t speak English worth a damn and have a wretched standard of living. They all have brown eyes and most of them are skinny. (You really should see their so-called toilets!) The Yuan is messing up the value of the dollar, the balance of trade is all out of whack and besides, we owe them tons and tons of money.
So I think I’ll get my new computer guru up here to prove it. We have 7½ hours of amateur video from our extensive trip to China and I have 23 pages of single spaced narrative to accompany the video of Shanghai, Suzhou, Tongli, Wuhan, the Three Gorges Dam, (plenty of high tech engineering stuff there), Xian, Beijing, The Great Wall at Badaling (more ancient but high tech engineering stuff there too!) And ACTUAL video of their so-called toilets!
Also we visited the towns and villages of Yueyang, Yichang, Wushen, and Chongquin, (formerly Chunking) and toured the home and headquarters of the WWII hero U.S. General Stillwell.
Oops! I failed to mention that while we were there in China anyway, we took a five-day cruise on a miserable old river tub belching black smoke all the way up the third longest river in the world, the Yangtze. That included taking a sampan up one of the three Gorges, (the Quang Gorge, the Wu Gorge and the Xiling Gorge), up beyond the Three Gorges Dam. The dam is for hydroelectric power for a very large portion of their huge country. (For centuries, the Yangtze has flooded every year, taking lives, homes and property with it. The dam should be able to control the flooding to a certain extent.) The sampan did have a little chugging out board motor but it also had two tall, handsome, brown eyed, black haired Chinese dudes with long poles guiding it and shoving it away from the banks of the river.
We left on that trip the week after 9/11 since we had already paid for the non-refundable plane tickets and the lengthy tour. It beat hiding under the bed, trembling in fear of all them Muslim terrorists out there.
I’ll get my new computer guru to format and put the video and narrative up here at M&H. You will really enjoy the video footage of our feet trudging along when we forgot to turn off the camcorder.
Of course, if Margaret and Helen object, I could probably get a vanity press to publish a travel book – for a hefty price. They are always hustling for business one way or another. But what the hell would I do with a jillion cartons of books in the garage? At age 80, pull a Sarah Palin and hobble around the country for book signing sessions? I ain’t that glamorous anymore.
Naw. I think I’ll just read a book instead. Along with a few choice souvenirs, in all our travels we ALWAYS picked up Nat. Geo. type books with pictures as well as hard cover ones wherever went. English translations of course. Who can read those silly, squiggly Chinese thingys they call writing. Yeah, I’ll just read some of those books again. I think they are worth re-reading.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 26, 2010
at 8:50 PM
poolman, I choose to love the video you posted this morning.
Jean, I’m thinking about you and your family.
Today, I had a discussion with an old friend of mine and we inevitably got around to the advancement of our age. I remember a while back how someone said on this blog that the younger of us can sure stand to pay attention and learn from the older among us.
I always appreciate your stories from Hawaii (and your years on the mainland).
Sometimes, I wish we could really get together and have a good time on the porch. Really talk and see each other. There are so many wonderful personalities on this blog.
Love it!
I choose to eat dinner now.
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By: vgman on June 26, 2010
at 8:03 PM
We better watch out, the last time we got together enmass and stacked shit to the heavens, was the tower of Babel. And the rest, as they say is history – or not – depending on your beliefs. 😉
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By: poolman on June 26, 2010
at 5:38 PM
LMAO, no one’s puppet! Or so deep…
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By: poolman on June 26, 2010
at 5:32 PM
The growing mass of the Earth issue seems to be directly attributable to the internet, we never had the ability to stack shit so high before.
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By: no one's puppet on June 26, 2010
at 5:08 PM
nothing like homemade jam…unless it’s on homemade bread.
Couldn’t agree with you more about Poolman.
And you will have my thoughts as well, Auntie Jean.
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By: Donna on June 26, 2010
at 5:05 PM
Donna I did strawberries too my place didn’t allow you to pick your own today though, it was too wet. Yummy jam to come!
The open mic made me chuckle. Those guys sounded like me after I try and listen to anything that woman has to say. I put it in the catagory of things that make you go hun? LOL
Poolman I love your mind and your spirit. You’re a REAL gentleman.
Jean I’ll be thinking of you Wednesday.
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By: lori on June 26, 2010
at 4:52 PM
Back to the “growing earth” proof. Proponents point to the age of the ocean floor as evidence that the earth is actually growing, or has since it was “created”, for lack of a better term. They say all the oldest sea creature fossils have been found on the land. I can’t find any data otherwise.
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By: poolman on June 26, 2010
at 4:47 PM
PFesser, I appreciate your educated mind. I am still trying to grasp the meaning of life and the fullness thereof. So many of my avenues of research are shaped by others that have gone before me searching the same pathways. I have a great desire to learn more and really do gain knowledge daily. Much of my K-12 education was hit and miss due to the amount of moving growing up as a military brat in the 60’s and 70’s entailed. There are plenty of us in that group. If what was being taught wasn’t pertinent at the time, it wasn’t retained.
Basically shy, I was much a loner as a kid. I did make friends – usually one good friend – everywhere I lived. But I spent most of my spare time exploring nature and creating art. Then it was off to college – a lot of partying all-night philosophical discussions – followed by work, wife, kids, bills, TV shows, etc. All the distractions and diversions of the modern world. But now since work is so slow, I have plenty of time to read and research. So that is what I do, as most of the regulars here can attest to. This site has provided a convergence of ideas and views.
It is good to reaffirm our beliefs and hone our theories based on emerging facts and data. At some point whole theories have to be dumped. It is common in science to do so, if new information doesn’t support the old schools of thought. That is part of our strength as a race. To adapt and adjust to the new, otherwise…well we know the rest.
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By: poolman on June 26, 2010
at 4:37 PM
good afternoon, all! Beautiful day here in the midwest and I have been doing dorky things like picking strawberries (which I love). I am in hysterics at the open mic problem for the noxious Palin’s speech at CSU. What a complete laughing stock.
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By: Donna on June 26, 2010
at 4:07 PM
“Scientific data has recorded that the rotation of the earth is slowing ever so slightly – the days are getting a little longer – but they are not sure why. They just keep adjusting our clocks to compensate. Hmmmm….bigger orb?”
No. I won’t spoil the pleasure one gets by looking things up for oneself, but I WILL give you a little leg up: it’s the same reason the moon always shows the same face to the earth, as do nearly all natural satellites found to date. Think “conservation of momentum.”
“Scientific data regarding sea level trends show they vary slightly over the years since they have been recorded.”
It’s very difficult to predict ocean levels, since if the earth were perfectly smooth, it would be covered in its entirety by water. As plates shift, some subduct, some override, some separate, and the average smoothness of the crust changes, so the water mark changes at different locales over long periods. Were I live, for example was covered with a tropical swamp, then ocean. That’s how the coal and oil got here. Tectonic motion is why there is oil on the North Slope of Alaska and Siberia where it’s Always Been too damned cold for a tropical swamp.
“There are different schools of thought regarding whether new life (reproduction) adds mass to this world or not. The data is not conclusive for either argument, it seems.”
Yes it is. Think “conservation of matter.” See, god’s laws make it simple if we only believe them.
“Like much of this, we rely on the interpretation of data by limited human minds following schools of thought.”
True, except on some things, conservation of energy, momentum – things like that – the range of interpretation is approximately zero percent, give or take 0.0001 percent.
“Multiply to me means an increase – an increase means a greater amount (quantity) than before.”
To paraphrase Bill Clinton, it depends on what the meaning of “amount” is. If the available mass of material is constant, multiply means divide into more things of less mass each. a/b = k where k is a constant mass. You can’t end up with more mass than you started with. See “conservation of mass,” – god’s laws.
“More is the result. My best guess is new life adds new mass.”
Guess again. You can’t create mass. Interestingly, chemical bonds and atomic bonds (not bombs) have mass, too. The energy released by nuclear fission or fusion neatly corresponds to the bonds’ mass lost X velocity of light ^2
“But that is merely based on common sense and not scientific reaseach, though I have been reading the research. If anyone has better data on this mass question, please share.”
See any freshman high school physics or chemistry text. “Conservation of Mass” is usually the chapter name.
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By: PFesser on June 26, 2010
at 1:22 PM
There’s more research supporting the “expanding earth” theory. It helps to explain some of the discoveries out there that are being observed by researchers…
Scientific data has recorded that the rotation of the earth is slowing ever so slightly – the days are getting a little longer – but they are not sure why. They just keep adjusting our clocks to compensate. Hmmmm….bigger orb?
Scientific data regarding sea level trends show they vary slightly over the years since they have been recorded. Differing sources vary on the data, but going with NOAA’s data recorded and collected over the entire world, we have not seen the rise that global warming proponents are using to support their theories. If there has been an increase in one zone or another, there is a decrease in another. Some claim that over 30 years we have had an average annual increase of 1 to 1.7mm. Yet it has varied each year with a drop in level of 20mm occuring in 1970. That was attributed to evaporation – a guess – as they really had no other explanation. Hmmmm. Tectonic plate shift? Remember that huge undersea earthquake in Peru.
Scientific data has also shown that the earth’s mass is increasing. Some attribute it to meteors reaching earth from space. Of course everytime we send something in space we lose mass, but I guess they figure we are taking in way more than we are sending out. Right. Of course a lot of those meteorites are pretty dense.
There are different schools of thought regarding whether new life (reproduction) adds mass to this world or not. The data is not conclusive for either argument, it seems. Like much of this, we rely on the interpretation of data by limited human minds following schools of thought.
Of course if you read the “holy” books, God, or whatever He’s referred to introduced math and the principles of math apply to all things. Multiply to me means an increase – an increase means a greater amount (quantity) than before. More is the result. My best guess is new life adds new mass. But that is merely based on common sense and not scientific reaseach, though I have been reading the research. If anyone has better data on this mass question, please share.
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By: poolman on June 26, 2010
at 12:12 PM
James –
I am certainly no fan of Helen Thomas, but I have tried to put myself in her shoes:
She is the daughter of Lebanese immigrants and genuinely feels the Israelis do not belong there. Of course, nobody who has lived in an area for generations wants to be displaced, but the fact is, that is the lot of everybody living today, if you go back in time far enough – except maybe the Chinese and Indians. Humans have been conquering other humans since we came out of Africa…that’s life. But I see Thomas’ POV; I’m still recovering from Culloden, myself…
But even having said that, I don’t think that people who do journalism for a living give up the right to an opinion – even Helen Thomas, who is not a very sympathetic character. She has the right to have – and express – her opinion – and in MY opinion, also has the right to not be hounded out of her job because she says something unpopular at the time.
“If they can do it to ME, they can do it to you.” Larry Flynt – editor of Hustler magazine, commenting on his obscenity case that was eventually argued before the Supreme Court.
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 26, 2010
at 11:26 AM
I’ve nearly beaten the “I told you so” horse to death. No one can miss my point, now, so I have stopped.
Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune, I think wrote a column about disappointment with his hero Helen Thomas. Her bigoted comment put her beyond the pale in his opinion. And Rosie O Donald to the contrary, Thomas’ comment was anti- semetic, and it wasn’t the first time she had said something like that . He also wrote it is important to confront bigotry where ever we find it.
Enter Lori. I read Lori’s post where she sort of agreed with Helen Thomas, and another where she lied and claimed I had threatened someone. I speed read, so I hope I went too fast and missed Lori’s meaning. Moreover, “bagger” Lori’s tendency to negatively objectify groups she finds offensive is not calculated to encourage the dialogue we need from disparate groups today.
Thanks to Mr. Page’s column, and Lori, I may visit more often for awhile.
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By: James on June 26, 2010
at 10:35 AM
James –
Speaking of class…
Back in the bad-ol-days of the seventies, I had a PhD engineer friend who was pretty matter-of-fact about everything and saw very clearly through a lot of the silly affectations of the time. He was Zen-like in his demeanor; the “turbulent sixties” had left no mark on his psyche.
We were at a gathering for the University and there was some discussion of dating, his teen daughter, and of course the topic of interracial dating came up. When the usual “racist!” stuff started flying, he calmly took a puff on his pipe (you were allowed to smoke back then) and said, “Actually, no – I’m more of a class-ist.” If she were interested in the right fellow from a good home with good parents and sibs who were upwardly mobile, that would be fine. If however, his sister is a crack whore, his Dad is nowhere to be found, his Mom’s on welfare and he’s headed nowhere himself – whether he’s black, white or green is irrelevant. He’s outta here.”
A couple of puffs, a wheel-about and he was gone, leaving the race-baiter standing red-faced.
Ah, Glen – where are you now?
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 26, 2010
at 10:33 AM
Good morning everyone! Freewill – ain’t it grand? It is one thing that places us above the rest of creation. Life is always a matter of choice. I choose love.
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By: poolman on June 26, 2010
at 10:17 AM
For those of you not scrolling by, you might be interested in ANTI-INTELLECTUALISM IN AMERICAN LIFE by Richard Fofstadter. He wrote it in the 1950’s, and it made quite a stir at the time. He was biased in favor of the elite “educated” class, and looked down on the middle class as elites still do, but he made some good points about class, attitudes and values in American life. Class attitudes toward education, not money, influence the success or failure of schools.
He also had broad unkind words for teachers and their culture which are unfair to people like my wife who is a teacher.
The movie THE SUBSTITUTE also (accidently) explored culture and educational success or failure in a violent and simplistic way.
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By: James on June 26, 2010
at 10:10 AM
Interesting article on NYC crime in the Times:
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 26, 2010
at 6:01 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Thank you dear friends for your kind words about the rough patch we have hit right now. I am grateful. I THANK GOD for Medicare. You know, FDIC, Federal Deposit INSURANCE. (It is NOT welfare!) And NO THANKS to conservative thinking that has always been so hot to privatize it. Can you just imagine what a predicament, not only my family, but millions of other people would be in right now without Social Security, Medicare and the provisions there are in the new Health Care law? I know it’s not nice to mix politics in at this time, but this is reality that affects everyone’s private lives.
I just want to put the finishing touches on our trip to Hana, Maui story. After our magical evening by the lagoon, we were all set to go out exploring more of Hana and environs the next morning. But first, while I made coffee in the room, my husband made a run to the little country store. He came back with a carton of juice, a carton of milk and some sweet rolls. We had a lovely breakfast out by the lagoon in our lounge chairs.
Later we did some grocery shopping at the little store and came up with munchables and cold drinks for a picnic lunch out somewhere and also for our dinner. When we got back to the hotel, the maid had made up the room. You know, those invisible sprites who clean up everybody else’s messes. She had restocked the mini-bar and the bowl of fresh fruit. I really, really like it when somebody makes my bed for me, cleans up after me in the bathroom, puts up fresh towels and then vanishes without a trace.
We did a rerun of the previous evening’s dinner out by the lagoon, raiding the mini-bar again and then got ready to go home the next morning. When we checked out, to our dismay and our own fault for not looking more closely at the mini-bar list, those two little splits of wine, barely one glass for each of us, were imported French wine at $30.00 a pop! Gulp.
I went easy on the liquids so I didn’t have to make a pit stop enroute on the little puddle jumper plane going home. Another breathtaking scenic flight. We arrived home, safe and sound with some beautiful memories.
Wednesday is my husband’s big procedure day out here. Like everything else, big or small, we roll with the punches and this too will pass. Trust me.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 26, 2010
at 1:01 AM
Auntie Jean, wishing the best for your husband and sister.
How education is funded in this country is the major drawback for the teaching profession and educating our children. Rich school districts can afford to pay their teachers well and the poorer one are less likely to do so. Is there a correlation between failing schools and the economic status of the population in those districts? You betcha! When the funding issue is resolved, I believe everything else will follow. Until our priorities are set straight, we will be facing this quagmire of teachers not having received the best of education themselve attempting to educate our kids in over-crowded classrooms, with little to no school supplies, forced to buy supplies for their classrooms, and to police children instead of spending their time giving these children what they deserve: a decent education.
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By: Easier on June 25, 2010
at 9:27 PM
hmmm America’s disdain for education… I’m not sure about that .. I need to sit with that for a minute and decide if I agree. But thanks for making me think about it rae/judith
and thanks to you mikat your words are very kind. xo
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By: lori on June 25, 2010
at 9:02 PM
@greytdog, thanks for the Waiting for Superman link. I tried my local video rental store for months — they don’t have it. Eventually I’ll dig it up and watch it. And I’m glad the article’s author mentioned Geoffrey Canada, and his Harlem project. There is somebody I could get behind. Sees the problem, and says not “it’s too hard,” but “well, we’d better get working.” Can’t wait to see how the Promise Neighborhood projects come out. Applications are due tomorrow (I think it is)!!
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By: Rae on June 25, 2010
at 8:51 PM
Hi, Judith. Interesting points you made about a culture not valuing education, and therefore not able to deliver it.
It don’t think it was always so. Yes, we have always been a nation of shopkeepers or, as poolman told us a couple of days (maybe it was hours) ago, a company town. Education isn’t really important when you’re all about sales, but …
Here’s an education story. My little town was settled in the mid-1800s by intrepid homesteaders who arrived by boat from New York or Detroit or Chicago. When there were 10 families in the town, barely scraping out an existence while they battled diptheria, typhus, cholera, small pox, and other diseases, the townspeople still managed to get together and build a school. They hired a teacher (one of the settlers) and paid her $1 per week. Literacy rates in the town were 100% according to the census.
I believe the disdain for learning in the United States is something new. You’re right, though — disdain for the learned has been there from the beginning. It’s what that “elite” stuff is all about.
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By: Rae on June 25, 2010
at 8:44 PM
@ Vgman @ 6:30
Well I guess we see things differently.. imagine that! LOL
I donno….. it seems to me that it is a kin to an accountant sayin “geeeezeeeee my job would be soooooo much better if only I didn’t have to deal with all these debits and credits! ! If I could JUST get these clients to keep their books correctly my job would be soooo much easier!” Or a poolman saying “gosh I would love my work and it would be sooooo easy if only I didn’t have all this wetness surrounding me!” LOL
Buttttttttttttttttt I leave you with … namaste.. 😉 I hope your fence posting goes well…..
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By: lori on June 25, 2010
at 8:35 PM
vgman –
I still own my parents’ homeplace – about 70 acres, most mountainous. I have walked the property line many times and still marvel at my Dad’s old fencework. I couldn’t imagine fencing through those mountains with just a PhD (post hole digger) and a tamping rod. It’s about 7000′ of fence, though mostly gone now. He and I put in some bottomland fence that way when I was in high school; it’s not my favorite method.
I had a fencing company replace the old perimeter with smooth-wire cattle fence – every other strand electric. It works great for livestock, although it’s really tough to hold goats, which I kept for a time to clear the property. Great stuff. I had two llamas that would stand on the hill overlooking the goats. We are plagued by coyotes and llamas seem to hate any canine. What a hoot to watch my black llama put my niece’s dog through the electric fence backwards after he decided it would be sport to chase my goats!
I liked my goats, but I loved my llamas. Those damned llamas are really curious and seem to have a sense of humour. I was working on fence one cold, snowy winter day and I had the sensation of being watched. I glanced to the side to see a furry head about two inches from my left cheek. That llama had snuck up on me and was intently looking over my shoulder, watching me hammer on the fence, with his head about two inches from mine. Scared the hell out of me.
BTW, PHDs are OK but very labour intensive. The best invention I’ve seen is a Post Driver. It is a hydraulic affair that clamps to the tractor or dozer and smacks the pole into the ground. Very big labor saver. The fencing people had one and I marvelled at its simplicity and effectiveness. Good luck with your PhD!
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By: PFesser on June 25, 2010
at 8:13 PM
Oh and send that “Green Wave” grandson of yours a big XO.. 😉
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By: lori on June 25, 2010
at 8:10 PM
I will miss you jsri! I would hope you reconsider. If not.. Warm regards xo
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By: lori on June 25, 2010
at 8:06 PM
PFesser,
No back breaking work for me.
If there is any consolation in spending 200 dollars on 13 8 foot sections of split rail, it is that our condo association loves to build things together.
We have five people already committed to helping next week–ranging in age from low 20’s to 60’s. We just make sure there is plenty of lemonade (wine as the day goes on) setting out on the table near the pond.
So, with confidence this morning, we wrote the check, loaded up the back of my VUE and headed home. It’s much more fun to put things together when more people get involved! Truly a community.
Now, where will we find a post-hole digger…….
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By: vgman on June 25, 2010
at 7:47 PM
“As for doctors passing certification, all that means is that they managed to stumble through medical school, stayed awake long enough to sit for exams, and didn’t kill anyone during their residency. Lots of incompetent doctors out there”
Greytdog
What state certification?
And you have sat for these state certifications?
And you have intimate knowledge of what a medical student..then intern in a specialty then resident and senior resident have gone through?
Each state is different.
Now if you want to go one step beyond…
What say you about national specialty
Board Exams?
Surgery, Pediatrics,Internal medicine,Plastic Surgery,Psychiatry.
My wife a Pediatrician..became Nationally Board Certified.
She then wanted to do Child Psychiatry.
She then went through 2 tears of residency of Adult Psychiatry..then one year of Child Psychiatry before graduating as a Child Psychiatrist.
But then she had to be nationally boarded first in Adult then came Child Boards. For adult before computers, You sit through one day of written tests, one third Neurology and two thirds Psychiatry. Then interview a live patient before your peers. NOW repeat process for child Psychiatry.
Yep..there are some dead ones buried by the doctors who could not perform..but the weeding out process is a little more than you present.
Just saying…….
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By: Craig on June 25, 2010
at 7:43 PM
HI Jean
I think alien invaders have taken over H&M’s blog and this thing has hit a brick wall. Time to find a new venue. This used to be a pleasant diversion with witty commentary and engaged followers. But all that has come to an end and it’s time to move on.
Furthermore we all have it from the world’s ultimate authority that you and I, Helen and Margaret and perhaps Grandma Katie are all in advanced states of dementia and our ability to have coherent thoughts is shocking and no longer should be tolerated.
I don’t consider it remarkable that I have lasted this long but I have no interest in retiring to a cell block at some version of Shady Glen Acres where I can live out my remaining days in incontinence knowing that my safety is assured by the intrusion alarm that will sound as soon as I go near the rear exit. With that in mind, my wife and I are putting our affairs in order, updating our wills and creating the necessary health care and finance proxies. I know what you are going through with your sister because I’ve been through it three times over the past six years and we are setting it up so that our son will not have to make any difficult or unpleasant decisions on our behalf when that time comes.
You’ve been a steadfast and interesting contributor here among many others but it has not escaped my attention that many of the people who contributed regularly have withdrawn and I think I know why. Best wishes to you and your sister. I may drop in from time to time to catch up on H&M’s latest but my volunteer activities need more attention so it is unlikely that I will stop to post anything.
It has been an interesting ride.
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By: jsri on June 25, 2010
at 7:24 PM
vgman –
Where I grew up the split rail fence was ubiquitous, and plenty of old people around who still knew how to make one.
Are you going to saw your rails or maul them?
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 25, 2010
at 6:52 PM
greytdog –
“As for doctors passing certification, all that means is that they managed to stumble through medical school, stayed awake long enough to sit for exams, and didn’t kill anyone during their residency.”
I actually know a little about this.
Perhaps by “stumble” you mean – during the first two years – stumbling under the weight of 30 credit hours per semester. That is not a typo. Try it sometime. Or 105 hours of TESTING each semester. Or, in a class with which I am familiar, competing with nearly 2000 applicants for 86 positions – applicants, by the way who ALL think they are good enough to go to medical school. Or drinking information out of a fire hosepipe – so much information that the professor gives everybody note sheets already half-filled out, because nobody can write fast enough to get it all. Later on in training, working eighty-hour weeks and not knowing when it is the weekend. Taking call every third night, during which you are up all night, yet still studying six hours per day for two years in order to pass your specialty boards. Stumbling? Maybe so. But that stumbling puts more information on a newly trained specialist’s thumbnail than five average people will know in a lifetime.
“Lots of incompetent doctors out there – the recent scandal with the priests & the Vatican should help remind all of us how hospitals and the medical community shuffle around incompetent and often dangerous doctors simply to avoid any liability.”
I think this is called a “non sequitur.” The second half is also not true, but that’s a small point.
“basically, for me, it all boils down to one thing – commitment.”
I agree. The cat loved fish but hated to get his paws wet. Americans are willing to do everything, pay any amount, bear any burden – except that of enforcing discipline and order and upholding standards.
‘I have a sinking feeling that this country is no longer truly committed to education. We are Unfortunately, the answer remains the same as when he asked the question: “no”’
We also don’t have to reinvent the wheel. All we have to do is go to Asia, India – or, surprisingly, Ireland – and just do what they are doing. Or perhaps do what we did when I was a child. You couldn’t find a more rural school district than mine, yet our test scores averaged 90th percentile nationwide. Why do you think that is? It surely wasn’t because we paid our teachers more – we didn’t have the money for that. And we averaged 35 pupils per class, so the “overcrowding” argument is out.
Perhaps it is because we the students went to school clean, well-fed and with the understanding that we were there for a solemn purpose – and for those who didn’t understand that, there was always Mr. Barrett’s fearsome electric paddle! LOL
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By: PFesser on June 25, 2010
at 6:43 PM
Anyone interested in education might want to see if this documentary will be playing at a theatre near you. I’m hoping it comes this way. http://bit.ly/bcqMbc
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By: Greytdog on June 25, 2010
at 6:37 PM
Education is a tough topic. I think the desire (or lack of desire) for it starts in the home, but, for better or worse, school is where you start to get it.
Necessary info to start – I have some genetic issues that make me A: bright, B: socially inept. These aren’t changing any time soon (read – ever), and school was pure hell. However, my family was educated and there weren’t going to be any rewards for getting through basic school unless you counted ‘you were allowed to live’. And this was a period where genetic issues weren’t recognized; I just had to deal.
I had good and bad teachers. I learned from both and even more on my own. I also see the young ones at my work and I don’t know what it is with them.
They can’t reason. They can’t cope, analytically speaking. The best of them can remember rote info and, maybe, know where to look up what they can’t remember. But if it doesn’t work, or doesn’t apply, they’re completely lost.
Whatever we’re doing, it doesn’t work. Whether it be ‘teaching to the test’, or ‘multiple guess’, or ‘attendance medals’, or whatever – we’re producing generations of trained monkeys.
These are skills that a liberal arts education is designed to supply. Science and math also supply them, but only after you get to the theoretical levels, and most people aren’t going there. Sorry, Jim.
Socially, America has never valued education. The ‘Liberal Elite’ is scorned by the ‘Real Americans”. Even our popular culture is deliberately ungrammatical – “I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free”. Really? An American, where? You couldn’t even say ‘In America, where’, which would scan just as well? But, you know, us Americans, we just don’t speak English reel good…
Ok, that was a personal rant. But there’s a reason Sarah Palin makes sure she sounds like Larry, Daryl and his other brother Daryl. It plays deliberately to the lowest common denominator. We don’t like education and we don’t like educated people. Until we change that, I don’t know what we expect teachers to do about it.
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By: judith on June 25, 2010
at 6:36 PM
@Lori @4:01 pm
“Isn’t it a skill set you have to have to BE a good teacher? The ability to teach 30 rambunctious, wiggley, unkept, ill mannered, unprepared, snotty kids ? Aren’t all children/students just by the nature of being a kid those things?”
Lori, I don’t think so. Just because we see it, doesn’t make it so. I agree that a specific skill set is needed for teaching children–I recognized my gift early on. It takes a special person to WANT to be in the middle of 30 kids at their elbows. But more than wanting to teach them the love of learning, I want them to be good to each other. This requires patience, listening and caring on their part. This is how parents can help us at school. Give them to us with a sense of purpose–children who want to strive, grow, and prove who they are–without losing sight that they are NOT THE ONLY CHILD in the room.
When I was young, I learned how to sit for over an hour in church. Listening, daydreaming, reading (it’s amazing what you learn when you have only the Bible and the Hymnal in front of you), and singing. I loved singing in church.
What I learned most was self-control.
I repeat this phrase to my students many times–
“Everything you say and everything you do is a reflection of who you are.”
In pioneer times, the school teacher in the one room schoolhouse would look at their fingernails before letting them enter the school–a reflection of the home. Parents expected their children to come to school and be prepared to listen.
Are these expectations still being expected at home?
Or have we as a society changed our expectations?
Continuing my relaxation….
Split rail fence to construct next week.
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By: vgman on June 25, 2010
at 6:30 PM
@delurkergurl: I agree with & admire your “learn from it” approach to handling difficult situations. With a mom like you, your children surely do.
Keep in mind, however, that the data show that the effect of having had a bad teacher (defined as the teachers in the bottom 10% in terms of student performance) persists for YEARS. Take a group of students, divide in half randomly, assign one group to a top 10% teacher, assign the other to a bottom 10% teacher. What happens? The kids in the bottom 10% group end up at the bottom of the class next year, the year after, and the year after, even though they’ve left the “bad” teachers behind. The kids assigned to the top 10% teacher? They excel, and the effect lasts for years as well. The only way to undo the damage? Assign kids who were previously assigned to a bottom 10% teacher, the next couple of years to top 10% teachers. Or bring in an involved and capable parent to be in loco magistra.
Now, this isn’t something that’s confined to teachers. Take computer programmers. The top 10% are more than 100 times more productive than the bottom 10%. Take a new programmer and assign him or her to work with a top 10% programmer — he or she is launched. Assign him or her to work with a bottom 10% programmer — takes years to reverse the damage. What do the bottom 10% have to say about their profession? The end users don’t know what they want, the requirements keep changing, the technology doesn’t work right, … it’s not possible to succeed. Uh huh. What do the top 10% have to say? Find a way to help end users figure out what they want and communicate it. Sure, the requirements keep changing — that’s because requirements evolve in response to the product as it is being developed. Make it part of the process. Of course the technology is imperfect. It’s your job to figure out how to make it work. Otherwise we’d have chimps doing this work. (Programmers on the whole are not very diplomatic.).
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By: Rae on June 25, 2010
at 6:22 PM
My kids have had great teachers and crappy teachers. They learned from them all. From the great teachers they learned what you might expect – academics, respect, work ethic, the joy of good work, etc.
From the crappy ones, they learned that life isn’t always fair, adults make mistakes, teachers do better with the popular or smarter kids, respect authority even when you can’t respect the person, keep your head down and work hard, and don’t choose a profession you don’t like. Well, maybe they learned that from ME and not the crappy teacher, but the experience produced growth either way.
And with the crappier teachers I have learned how to teach my child concepts they just aren’t able to learn at school for whatever reason and when it goes well I love feeling like a great mom. Through my reading challenged child, I learned a ton about how he learns best, how to be creative, and to celebrate the lightbulb moments – hand in hand with his incredibly gifted special ed teachers. And I learned that if you hang in there, the challenge can be replaced by skill!
Generalizations are wrong and hurt feelings. I don’t think it’s fair to put all teachers as a group on a pedestal, but it also isn’t fair to begrudge the whole profession for a few bad apples. Some of the bad apples never should have become teachers. Others may have been destroyed little by little, by all the crap teachers put up with from students, parents, administrators, budgets, and school & government politics. They should find other careers I guess, but that’s easy to say.
That wasn’t a sermon… just a little stream of consciousness typing. 🙂
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By: delurkergurl on June 25, 2010
at 5:45 PM
Things have to be just right for me to win the lottery. The chances are infinitesimal. I win. Was that an accident? I don’t think so …
It’s a logical error, the name of which I cannot recall. Erudite fellow travelers?
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By: Rae on June 25, 2010
at 4:56 PM
@vgman: applause also. I bet you are a fabulous teacher.
To all of the terrific, high-performing teachers out there: BIG APPLAUSE
To my sister Mary, who stopped talking to me for 2 years one time because of my opinions on education, THIS MUST BE A DIFFERENT RAE.
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By: Rae on June 25, 2010
at 4:50 PM
@Lori – applause.
@Greytdog – I can’t agree with your assessment of medical training; it’s certainly not true in my experience. But let’s pretend you’re correct. I can at least sue an incompetent doctor for malpractice. I can get a second opinion. I can switch doctors. The algebra teacher who gave extra credit points for students who brought in boxes of tissues and the history teacher who showed Titanic and Braveheart in class can’t be touched. I would love to be able to sue for educational malpractice, but since nobody agrees on standards for educational practice, it’s not possible. The medical profession sets its standards. Why not education?
As for “teaching to the test,” that’s a cop-out. One of the best teachers my daughter had in elem school was a 4th grade science teacher. The kids split their day between two teachers — one who taught “science and math,” one who taught everything else. I asked him about testing and he told me he never teaches to the test, he teaches the material. If the test is even mediocre, the kids should do all right. They built all kinds of science things (bubble tanks, whatever) and played around and did experiments. His classes always had the highest test scores in the district in both math and science. Yes it was a suburban school, but it had a very mixed student body — racially, socioeconomically, etc. If you think the test is faulty, fix it, but don’t play the “teaching to the test” game. And sorry, if you can’t measure progress, there wasn’t any IMHO.
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By: Rae on June 25, 2010
at 4:35 PM
I agree with Poolman that God created the universe.
However, the expanding universe doesn’t necessarily correlate with an expanding earth or any other heavenly body. The Grand Canyon, for example is a result of erosion, not a growing earth. Fissures and volcanoes in the ocean are caused by continental drift.
The Universe is set just right for matter as we know it to develop. Without those conditions, planets and stars would not exist in the form they do. The Earth is in an ideal location with the right size of star in the best part of the Milky Way. Was that an accident? I don’t think so.
Speaking of multipliers, scientists believe blue eyed people descended from a person who mutated eight to ten thousand years ago. So, if you have blue eyes, you and I are distant cousins. Blue eyed people have multiplied quickly.
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By: James on June 25, 2010
at 4:20 PM
Ok I am treading lightly here… In my immediate family I have 3 full professors 1 special ed and one el ed music teacher all bros and sis’s. I love them dearly.. and I think they are amazing people and very successful at their chosen career, and they read this blog! LOL
.
I have heard them echo Vgman’s sentiments many times.. IF ONLY the parents would…….. fill in the blank…
I have heard them tell me about alllllll the rambunctious, wiggley, unkept, ill mannered, unprepared, snotty kids/students they have…. and I always have one question.
What did you expect? They are KIDS!
I am not trying to be ugly..I really want to know… what did you expect when you chose the teaching profession? Isn’t that one of the challenges of your profession? Isn’t it a skill set you have to have to BE a good teacher? The ability to teach 30 rambunctious, wiggley, unkept, ill mannered, unprepared, snotty kids ? Aren’t all children/students just by the nature of being a kid those things? I sure as hell know that is why I didn’t chose that profession! I am equally sure that there are people who have chosen the teaching profession that wouldn’t want and doesn’t have the skill set to succeed in my chosen profession or my husbands….or poolmans! .
I donno… I’ve raked up hundreds of volunteer hours in the classroom and around the halls, raised two honor kids that have been accepted to highly competitive universities, fostered several others and always seem to have a stray or two roam onto our doorstep for some reason or another . I have sat, cried, cheered, laughed, worried, worked, held hands with hundreds of parents along the way….. Extremely wealthy, married, single, poor, ghetto, upscale….. it doesn’t matter….. we have some damn good parents out there and I have learned I am not so special or unique. Yes of course there are a few who aren’t ….so much, just like any other profession, but all and all I’m very pleased and optimistic.
I’m just not buying the propaganda. The sad part is that propaganda ultimately hurts the teaching profession because the teachers who excel in their profession have to remain in the pack with wages and benefits. They are not rewarded for their excellence. It’s a shame.
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By: lori on June 25, 2010
at 4:01 PM
Happy Friday Everyone! Another day in the journey – the quest for wisdom and understanding tangled with the fight for survival. Whatever you are doing in the moment, I pray blessings in your life. May His light go before you to direct your path. May His grace follow you. May He fill your space with healing and comfort. May His Almighty Spirit smile upon you and bring you joy, I pray. 😎
On to science, my latest favorite focus. This expanding earth theory fits well with the proven expanding universe and can better explain all these giant cracks in the earth and huge sinkholes that are showing up everywhere. Why wouldn’t the earth itself be growing, if everything else in the universe is? Talk about a universal law! Wow! I get excited over it. You start thinking about all the fissures and evidence I’ve seen. The Grand Canyon. I’ve been there several times. Fissures and volcanoes under the oceans. Under the Gulf?
Coincidently, lines up with scripture and not just the Bible. Afterall, He is the great multiplier – of matter and fact. 😉
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By: poolman on June 25, 2010
at 1:08 PM
Peggy West
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By: James on June 25, 2010
at 12:07 PM
Auntie Jean,
Good luck, we will miss your daily “contributions”. Come back to us as soon as you can.
I just want to say that I truly love this site. I am so impressed with the discussions (most of the time) and the intelligence. I have learned more here then in many of my former classroom’s.
I am very afraid of where this country is headed if the Dem’s don’t get their collective head’s out of their @sses and start REALLY fighting for “us” the main street folks. I continue to have hope though, thanks to most of you –
Auntie Jean, Poolman, Rae, Greytdog, Donna, Mageen, Lori, Delurker, Crystal, No One’s Puppet and even Pfessor/Jim and everyone else I did not mention, but read daily.
I continue to read and learn daily.
Mikat
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By: mikat on June 25, 2010
at 11:00 AM
OK. Please realize this is coming at the end of my first week of summer vacation.
Educating 30 5th graders is an exhausting job for me–but I love it.
1. Reading, reading, reading. The most important factor that will determine the inquisitive nature of a child is reading. Beginning with the dedicated parent that models it, supports the child, provides them opportunities to choose books, discusses books with them, and gives time, time, and more time. A love for learning anything begins with the success of a child seeing and understanding everything that is available to read. When a child sees how important reading is to adults, they will mirror that energy. I can do wonders with kids who come prepared to intermediate grades with the reading skills intact.
2. Patience–slowly eroding away. And its twin–Self-control. These two lifeskills go along way in any learning environment where children are learning together and demonstrating newly-acquired social skills.
3. Respect–again, this comes basically from the home. When I hear students using foul language at school, I can usually be assured their respect for themselves and others has a negative balance.
Our girls’ bathroom was locked for the last 6 weeks of school due to disrespectful graffiti on the walls.
Out of 30 students this past year, I had 9 of them who could show me each of these consistently from day one….and the rest were varying degrees of apathy……
Can’t listen, won’t listen, distracted, can’t read, can’t focus, show off, do what I want to do, can’t remember, and the list could go on and on…
But my job requires that I show growth in each of my students….so I work hard to find the unique way to connect with each one and encourage them to overcome their weaknesses. It works for many, doesn’t for some, and leaves me yearning for the several weeks I can rejuvenate before it begins all over again.
I’m off to paint the downstairs bathroom.
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By: vgman on June 25, 2010
at 10:52 AM
Rae, I agree with you. I do think that teachers need to be placed on a more professional evaluation platform that what is used today. That said, I also think that parents need to stop thinking of the school as “merely babysitters.” When I was in college, I thought long and hard about becoming a teacher. My grandparents had been teachers, my parents were teachers. . .it seemed a natural progression, yes? But no. After 3 mos of student teaching in a high school, I realized that my temperment was no more suited to the HS classroom as a teacher as when I was a student (I was a bit of a rebel in school). I quickly tired of parent-teacher conferences where the parents ended up battling one another over who cared for the child more. . .ugh. There were several really bright kids in my classes but their abilities were pushed aside as the school sought to bring order and standardization to the classroom. We ended up spending most classroom time teaching to those tests, rather than teaching critical thinking skills. Of course the standardized tests were crucial to the school board as funds were doled out based on the overall school score. Those with the highest scores received the funds; schools with scores in the bottom drawer received nothing, or worse – lost staff. It was a no win situation that jeopardized the students and demoralized the teachers. Why spend hours preparing a lesson plan when the information you’ll provide isn’t included on the test? I still have some of the materials used in my classroom – materials supplied by the Board. UGH.
But I’ve had bad teachers and I didn’t want to be part of that not so exclusive group. So I switched to teaching college. Luckily, enough of my former classmates had landed jobs with state universities and after hearing their horror stories, I knew that the only environment I would be comfortable in would be a private college. I also knew that I had no interest in pursuing a tenure track position – I like the freedom of being able to actually teach without fearing the Dean of Faculty breathing down my neck. But I have to admit I’ve grown weary of fighting students and their parents about the student’s right to use their cell phone, iPods, iPads, etc during lectures and exams. And with rateyourprofessor sites, more and more colleges are relying on student evals to determine a faculty member’s raise. Sorry, but never liked student evals – they are inherently prejudiced against the professor. It wasn’t until AFTER I had graduated that I grew to appreciate the hard headed acerbic Physics professor who ran me ragged in class; it wasn’t until much later that I could appreciate the demands of my Con Law professor’s expectations. . .if I had chosen to evaluate them while sitting in their classroom I would have rated them both very poorly because I was mad at them, upset with them, or simply wanted revenge.
As for doctors passing certification, all that means is that they managed to stumble through medical school, stayed awake long enough to sit for exams, and didn’t kill anyone during their residency. Lots of incompetent doctors out there – the recent scandal with the priests & the Vatican should help remind all of us how hospitals and the medical community shuffle around incompetent and often dangerous doctors simply to avoid any liability.
basically, for me, it all boils down to one thing – commitment. I have a sinking feeling that this country is no longer truly committed to education. We are committed only to that aspect of education that will potentially increase one’s income and social status. After that, phfft. I’ve sat through enough parent-teacher conferences (both as parent and as teacher) to be dismayed whenever anyone starts to talk about how so-&-so’s behavior or lack of performance will harm their ability to earn $$. We all laughed when W asked in his own ignoble way “is our children learning?”. Unfortunately, the answer remains the same as when he asked the question: “no”
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By: Greytdog on June 25, 2010
at 8:25 AM
Ah, education. Such a bugaboo. It should be consumer-oriented, right? We band together, hire some people to perform a service for us, and we aren’t even permitted to evaluate their performance. I have more control over the guy who mows my lawn than the person who teaches my child. If I’m unhappy with my doctor for any reason, I switch. But not teachers, because THEY KNOW WHAT’S BEST FOR ME. It annoys the heck out of me.
Now, if it were a real profession, where people were expected to know their stuff and expected to keep up with current research in the field, I wouldn’t be so unhappy. Unfortunately, many kids go into education because it’s the “easy major” and besides, they like having summers off. That is why they hate this year-round school thing, which has been proven to work. I’d love to see a survey of teachers that assesses how many are outcome-focused and how many are merely self-interested.
Not that there aren’t fabulous teachers, mind you. Oddly, in spite of the fact that anyone with a child in school knows, along with all of the students and parents, who the good teachers are, the teachers themselves claim it is simply impossible to measure teacher success. “I know I’m a good teacher. The problem is the parents.” The only other professionals I know of that hang on to that “can’t tell who’s good” story are psychoanalysts, and we all know where the data have come down on that crowd.
And this “well, it’s impossible to succeed because of the breakdown of the family” routine amazes me as well. If it’s not possible to succeed at education, let’s stop throwing money down the pit. If the only kids who benefit are those whose parents teach them at home, then why do they need school, and why do they need teachers?
What gripes me most is that I believe in education. It can work. And it’s not working now, which means we need to change what we are doing. We have research data that tell us what we should be doing. Yes, family matters. Yes, money matters. But when you look at the education system, you see investment in buildings, textbooks, computers, class or school size, and other items that in fact don’t matter. The single most powerful determinant of student success in the schools is the teacher. The teacher. And the impact of a bad teacher is felt for several years. Children often don’t recover from a year with a bad teacher.
Doctors, lawyers, psychologists, … all of them must pass board exams to qualify for certification. Can someone explain to me why it is that teachers just have to put together little portfolios and can’t be expected to pass a fifth-grade math test?
There you go. Bring on the slings and arrows.
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By: Rae on June 25, 2010
at 5:52 AM
Oh lord don’t get me started on the teaching and administration professions!
Personally, (and boy am I gonna catch hell for this post) I think the minute our society started buying the teacher’s union propaganda was the minute we sold our children’s soul to the devil.
The minute we started to BELIEVE teachers are good good good parents are bad bad bad our society relinquished all control to a union and the QUALITY of educators declined. When the parent-teacher-administrator relationship became adversarial we lost the battle.
When we elevate a profession to “hero” – God like status, we lose our objectivity and ability to properly police that profession.
Don’t get me wrong I am a pro union girl when it comes to working conditions, salary, hours etc. However, in the teacher’s case we (the people) relinquished all checks and balances. We, the parents and community members, rendered our elected school board members, impotent. At that moment we handed the hen house over to the fox.
Ok I am off to do some yoga! LOL I need a double class today I think! This subject makes me wayyyyyy too hostile!
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By: lori on June 25, 2010
at 4:51 AM
Auntie Jean , all my positive vibes going your way as you deal with these challenges! Give your boy toy a xo from me.. 😉
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By: lori on June 25, 2010
at 4:09 AM
Rae –
Several years ago my niece finished up at a teachers’ college and sat for her teaching certificate examination. After several tries, she approached me to help her study for the math portion of the examination.
The State board where she lives was quite helpful, and even gave to her the old copies of her test to use as a study guide. After about a half hour it became apparent that she simply did not know how do do basic arithmetic – not algebra – arithmetic.
“Holly, honey, how are you going to teach math when you don’t know any?” “Uncle Jim, these are all word problems, and I have NEVER SEEN A WORD PROBLEM IN MY LIFE.”
This is a college-educated young woman.
She did eventually pass. I have followed her career since then. She is from a very rural area and still says, “Git, fer, sich, iss-shere, at-tare (this here, that there) and I seen it. or he done it.” When I tell her you_are_a_teacher;_you can’t_talk_like_that, she just shrugs and says, “Everybody around here talks like that.”
I think of my elementary school teachers. They were educated in a far away time, but they spoke grammatically, COULD do arithmetic and were respected by all in our small farming community. I still remember my little first-grade classmate, when corrected, saying, “But my Daddy says it that way!”
Mrs. Miller – who just died last month at the age of 99! was so very diplomatic about it: “Honey, I know your Daddy; he is a very smart man and he works very hard in the mines. I know he wants you to learn how to speak the very best way possible, and that’s what you are going to do.”
Some days I despair.
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By: Pfesser53 on June 25, 2010
at 3:53 AM
@Mageen,
I’ve perused textbooks from the early 20th century, and have noticed a few things. First, they’re hard. Kids were expected to know and know how to do a lot more than kids today. Academically, at least. And for the most part, they are quite usable today. How much has math really changed? (I refer to the discipline of mathematics, not the teaching of mathematics). Latin? French? English, for that matter? Literature? Poetry? OK, you can’t have an old computer science book. And geography is never up-to-date, so textbooks should be ditched for Wikipedia. Most of the other sciences could do with a supplement, but the books don’t have to be completely re-written. After all, has the study of mechanics changed? Professional historians refer to older books all the time, too. Unless you need to do some politically-motivated revisions, old history books work just fine, supplemented by current material.
When my daughter was in high school I decided to teach her Algebra II during the summer, because the algebra teacher was so bad. The guidance counselor conspired with me to pull it off, and I found to my surprise that there are different versions of the text book in every state. Why? Is algebra in Indiana really different from algebra in Michigan? And the textbooks — good grief. So busy, with sidebars, and little boxes, diagrams, pictures, etc. So much crap it’s hard to find the material. I stayed a day ahead of her (did have a job, after all), and condensed each chapter to a single page with definitions and a couple of examples. Then I made her do 20 problems from the “honors” section of the textbook. She did a chapter a day, complaining the whole way. She had to do each problem until she got the right answer. It took about an hour a day altogether. At the end of each week, she took a test — 20 problems. No make-ups, no extra credit. She ended up with a 98% in the class, which was darned good for a girl with no interest in school and lots of interest in boys. I ended up exhausted.
The textbook thing is a scam. They’re crap. Nobody learns from them, and they’re just there for show. We need to stop buying them. I almost said we need to stop inflicting them on our children, but of course we don’t. They just drop to the bottom of the locker, where they make good boot lifts.
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By: Rae on June 25, 2010
at 12:04 AM
Good evening everyone, and Auntie Jean. I will add your sister and hubby to my prayer list. As for the avatar, I was ready for a change. This was actually a project I did for my design communications class in college. It was one of the few that my professor was pleased with. We were asked to communicate “7” without using numbers or letters. And of course, composition, technique, color, and presentation were critiqued.
Glorious 113 degrees today with 2 percent humidity. Your skin just kind of cracks right open when you encounter the outdoors. Yikes!
Since PFesser and I were back and forthing yesterday, I have done almost nonstop online research on science stuff. Wow! There is a lot of theory and debate regarding the stuff we were touching on. As a side note, I guess our oceans are so full of metals right now, whales and other fish are becoming toxic to themselves and us. There’s no getting away from it, as it’s accumulative. Might as well fill ’em with petroleum products too. What’s good for the goose…
But the really exciting stuff I found is regarding how the earth and planets have evolved. Of course, like all the others, this is just a theory. But it does look not only feasible, but would explain many things we don’t have answers to now. I don’t know if you are familiar with this information, but I would like more “science minded” individuals to weigh in after examining the evidence. Clip 2 is so obvious. Exciting stuff!
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By: poolman on June 24, 2010
at 11:12 PM
Auntie Jean: I send best wishes to your sister and the famous “Boy Toy.” And, of course, to you.
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By: Donna on June 24, 2010
at 7:16 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
“Even a fool knows you can’t reach the stars, but it won’t keep the wise from trying.”
Harry Anderson said that in this morning’s local newspaper “Celebrity Cipher”. (Cryptogram.)
Don’t panic anyone.
My 88-year-old sister in a nursing home on the mainland has some health issues. None fatal, but they require time and attention. She has been in a wheelchair and in the nursing home for a number of years. She does receive excellent care.
I am the only family she has. The nursing home is required by law to keep me informed of any changes in her health. All of her affairs are in order. But there is an emotional element here…….
My ‘Boy Toy’ of 57 years also has some health issues with procedures coming up. None fatal. We’re dealing with them. But here again there are big time emotional elements in play……..
So my contributions on M&H may be hit or miss for a while. I just might get cranky sometimes too. Please accept my unqualified, humble and sincere apologies in advance if I should offend anyone.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 24, 2010
at 6:53 PM
TX BOE really makes home schooling look like the best choice. Eons ago when I went to school our textbooks were so out of date it was unreal. Would you believe reading books with publication dates of 1924 in 1950? These books looked like the throwaways from better off school districts and yep, thats exactly what they were. But by comparison with todays textbooks, they were actually better! I bet even the brightest kids would be hard pressed to solve 1924 math problems on bushels of wheat, acreage and so forth. But here’s the point. No matter how really, really good and valid a textbook is, dammit, get a library card and cross check what you don’t understand or don’t agree with. And maybe even read some of the books in the footnotes, end-notes and so forth. An educated person is a well and widely read type who knows how to think.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 24, 2010
at 2:42 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I like your new avatar, poolman. Yeah, life’s a crap shoot.
There is an interesting discussion going on here this morning. Changing names or labels, doesn’t really do much to solve problems. i.e. “Slavery”, “Contract Labor”; “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques”, “Torture”; BP’s new face. Whenever GREED overshadows everything else, we have big and then bigger problems.
Conservative thinking seems to be if at first you don’t succeed, keep doing more of the same things only bigger.
I am no big fan of Rousseau. I’m all for progress and the modern conveniences it brings. However, every problem created has both technical (scientific?) and social (theological?) dimensions. When it comes to ‘hard’ science vs. ‘soft’ science, there can be no such thing as total objectivity because it is human ‘intelligence’ that bring subjective element to the table. Garbage in, garbage out.
I ran into that yesterday when I was only looking up how to spell a word! I’ll get into that later when I have more time.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 24, 2010
at 1:20 PM
Wisdom for today – actually yesterday. I enjoy these gems from mr. fish. Enjoy! Life is so serious today. For levity, take a couple of these chuckles and pass ’em around where most needed.
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By: poolman on June 24, 2010
at 1:13 PM
The new face of BP
Oh, crap! 😉
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By: poolman on June 24, 2010
at 12:48 PM
What you talkin’ ’bout? It was “Stone Cold” Steve Austin along with his buddy Sammy Houston – or Hagar – I get them mixed up, that single-handedly – or I guess more like four-handedly – rassled them mess’can injuns an’ rescued faar from all the illegals that were tryin’ to steal the Al-ee-mo. 😀
I think that history, arts, and the sciences – at a minimum – have suffered in American public education. I experienced that back when I was attending. I actually went to 10 different public schools for K-12 and in various areas of the country – some actually in Texas – no snide remarks, please.
In Germany 1970ish, I experienced their education system. At that time they were well advanced of our schools. Sloppiness and laziness were not tolerated. Their classrooms were orderly and the learning intense. Their handwriting was perfect – and all done in ink! I remember thinking how much less we were getting from our system and how many of my peers were merely skating and able to get away with it. There were also many elements of that society that I felt surpassed ours. The sense of community and respect for the land that provided their livelihood was a refreshing change. At that time, America had not fully polluted the minds of the youth there, but the attraction was drawing them in. Rock and roll was the primary vehicle. By now I am certain they have been fully assimilated. Resistence is futile, you know.
The purchasing clout of the Texas school board, forcing censorship and manipulation of knowledge onto the general public, is just one small piece of a large puzzle we are frantically trying to solve. Unfortunately, since we dumped it on the floor, some of the pieces have been reappropriated, lost, or stolen. Nobody can find the original box to know what the puzzle is supposed to look like. Some are cutting the pieces to make them fit where they are not supposed to, just so they can finish a corner and get credit. Others, capitalizing on the crises, have pocket pieces and offer them up to the highest bidder. The big “G” predominant in this society is greed. Want to know the primary reason?
“America Can’t Solve Crises Because It’s a Company-Owned Town”
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By: poolman on June 24, 2010
at 11:43 AM
LOL @ greytdog, but it won’t be America discovered fire it would be TEXAS discovered fire. Remember they want to be their OWN country! lol lol
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By: lori on June 24, 2010
at 10:14 AM
Let’s try to see the bright side of the demise of our educational system thanks to TX BOE. . . maybe some day, we’ll be able to claim that an American discovered fire.
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By: Greytdog on June 24, 2010
at 10:07 AM
Unfortunately the Texas school book fiasco goes much further than just Texas school student’s.
Because Texas school districts are the largest consumer (customer) of text books, most if not all publishers use Texas as the standard for every book they publish. It is very likely the history and science text books published today will meet the new Texas requirements set forth by the Texas state commission even though that same book ultimately ends up in a Pennsylvania school.
Scary scary….
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By: lori on June 24, 2010
at 9:32 AM
– snip-“especially considering what conservatives are doing to gut our educational system and who absolutely are doing everything possible to stop science in this country. I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen to Texas Scholars who are educated under the new TX BOE standards when they seek entrance into non-Texan colleges – after all, surely their Intelligent Design and Creationism” -snip-
Ah, yes. Those people make me lose my mind. It’s hard to rank the criticisms of Bush-the-Lesser, as there are so many, but near the top are his administration’s attacks on science.
My wife and I have a small publishing business, and she is a published author. We are kicking around the idea of a “Supplement to the Texas School Textbooks,” in which each loony idea is then replaced by more traditional takes on the subject. We would publish at cost. Parents whose children are subject to those texts could demand corrected information from their local boards or just homeschool on those subjects. Still in the consideration phase.
Rae –
“I’m the one with the MRI question,”
Ok. Understood.
The bottom line is that MRI or CT would be the last exam you would do to measure ICP per se. If the MD thinks there may be ^ ICP, he will probably do a spinal tap and measure the pres. directly. At that point he/she will prob. go to MRI to look for a mass, but not to eval. the pressure.
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 24, 2010
at 8:07 AM
Oh my, thank you Jim for the laugh this morning. It was much needed. I loved your sweeping assumption that “liberal blogs” don’t do science – especially considering what conservatives are doing to gut our educational system and who absolutely are doing everything possible to stop science in this country. I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen to Texas Scholars who are educated under the new TX BOE standards when they seek entrance into non-Texan colleges – after all, surely their Intelligent Design and Creationism courses will enable them to hold forth in Quantum Physics classes. . . .
But Jim I am so glad to know you are such a Renaissance Man – with the ability to know and understand all. Amazing. Bravo.
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By: Greytdog on June 24, 2010
at 6:43 AM
Hey, PFesser, Mr. CRANKY …
I’m the one with the MRI question, and it was a question, not a challenge. However, I cannot say where it came from. I’d rather NOT have to become an expert on reading MRIs to answer the question, so I thought I’d ask you, since you read them in the course of your work, or so I gathered.
My son answered the quarter question while we were watching the soccer game — we know the quarter displaces more water by weight than by volume, because it’s denser, so either he blurted incorrectly during that last score (yes, I did ask the question at that point, being terribly inappropriate when it comes to sports etiquette), or I remembered incorrectly because of the dirty look I got.
And yes, before you say it, that was technically not, but in spirit definitely, a bunch of run-on sentences.
I do take your point about science and US students. It is indeed a sad state of affairs. Although we argue vigorously about the religious leanings of our founding fathers, no one seems to realize how many scientists were among them. Among other things I am a bit of an amateur historian, and it’s amazing to me that little Midwestern pioneer towns with maybe 10 families had historical societies, debate societies, brass bands, etc., and that the topics debated were often scientific as well as political and social.
Cheers.
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By: Rae on June 24, 2010
at 5:59 AM
Jim,
We post at the pleasure and generosity of M&H. They have kindly allowed us to come onto their front porch and opine on their posts, that are POLITICAL current events in nature, and occasionally, as we await a new article from Helen, we wander off topic and talk about other things. Therefore it shouldn’t surprise you that people who come to M&H’s political blog on a regular basis might not be too interested in discussing what a quarter does at the bottom of an ocean! Personally I don’t care what anyone discusses on here, if I don’t like the subject I just scroll baby scroll. So if you want to chat about Science, and M&H don’t mind, go for it, but please don’t go on an arrogant rant and insult us porch dwellers by saying ” I was struck with the sad notion , “jesus h. christ. Am I the only person here who can parse this out? This is gobbledygook.” (In fact, now that I think about it I am a little surprised that not a single other poster – except for you, now – has weighed in on the science – it’s really a sad commentary on the state of American education, isn’t it? Of course, liberal blogs are hardly hotbeds of hard science, are they?)”.
Maybe just maybe we liberals don’t give a crap about your quarter!
And Jim have you ever heard the phrase it’s better to be nice than right? No one likes the smartest kid in the class….. Jus sayin…
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By: lori on June 24, 2010
at 4:51 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
One more thing. Sort of like the Hajj to Mecca, everyone should “do” Waikiki and the Hilton Hawaiian Village once in a lifetime.
But you better hurry up! If and or when a hurricane ever hits like our Hurricane Iniki on Kauai did in 1992, those hotels and condos on Waikiki are going down like dominos.
Iniki was on, and I kid you not, September 11, 1992.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 24, 2010
at 1:54 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Chrystal on June 23, 2010 at 9:47AM,
Chrystal, there are three things we moved out here about 40 years too late to learn how to do: Dive, surf and hike the rugged 11 mile trail from Ke’e Beach on the North Shore to Polihali Beach on the West Side (near the Barking Sands Pacific Missile Range Base). Barking Sands is so named because when you lift your feet to walk on the sand it goes, “Woof! Woof!”
The North Shore Beaches you mentioned besides the Nurses Beach were probably Tunnels Beach and Ke’e Beach, where the road ends. Good snorkeling on both. You guessed it. I have stories about those too!
Part two of the trip to Hana. We took off from the hotel in Hana for the Seven Sacred Pools and Seven Sacred Falls. You would do best to Google them There are pictures. I could not begin to find words to describe the incredible scenery. Also you can Google the hotel.
Hana is ever so remote! It has been a haven for some huge wealthy estates and celebrities, among them used to be Carol Burnett and Jim Nabors. Nabors has since moved to Oahu. I have no idea where they got their groceries though.
There were then some huge Macadamia Nut orchards and also pineapple fields. Pineapple has long since gone to the Philippines. Both crops are labor intensive. Sugar cane couldn’t compete very well with sugar beets. From start to finish, it took two tons of irrigation water to produce one pound of refined sugar out here and then there were shipping costs. No longer cost effective.
When there was so much talk about ethanol as fuel, lots of people got very excited about growing sugar cane on the old pineapple and cane fields. They have been mostly lying fallow. A few fields were started. But where were they gonna get the labor for large scale sugar/ethanol production? Illegal aliens? They would have to be very strong swimmers!!! And where to put them in affordable housing? Tent cities? We already have some of those on beaches on most of the islands. They are called ‘homeless’. These are BIG problems that for sure, I don’t have any easy solutions to.
For sugar they brought the labor from China, Japan and the Philipines, not always voluntarily. That’s where the word “Shanghaid” came from.
The sugar plantations replicated the cotton plantations of the Old South. But the Hawaiian labor forces were called “Contract Workers”, not “Slaves”.
Meanwhile back on Hana, The Seven Sacred Pools and Seven Sacred Falls were magnificent!!! To see and tramp around. A rather big glitch however. There were unobstrusive signs posted all over the place by the Department of Health warning people not to go in the water of the pools or falls because of Leptospirosis. That is a nasty and dangerous parasite found in fresh water streams and pools. (Not a bacterium as I erroneously stated in a previous comment. And not to be confused with Histoplasmosis, an eye problem that leads to blindness. Histo is caused by an air born fungus prevalent in the Deep South.)
We have a friend out here who contracted Leptospirosis long ago, and although it is treatable, it is recurring and extremely debilitating. Periodically, he winds up in the hospital for days, sometimes weeks at a time.
The local people know better than go in the fresh water. They save their swimming for the salinity of the ocean where the parasites cannot survive. Guess who were splashing around in the Seven Sacred Pools at Hana, ignoring the posted warnings? Tourists. Perhaps they should have heeded their grandma’s admonition in the old song, “Hang your clothes on the hickory limb but don’t go near the water!!!”
Meanwhile, back in Hana after dark, the gas station and the little store were closed. Also at the time we were quite involved in the Winter Olympics and a Primary Election going on somewhere on the mainland. No TV in the room. The hotel was billed as a “Get-Away-From-It-All-Escape”. That it was!!! We were in TV withdrawal with no dinner. I don’t remember who won what in the Olympics or those Primary Elections that year, but we certainly do remember that night!!!
There was a TV in the lobby and of course, that miserable dining room. Instead, we raided the mini-bar. With the bowl of fresh fruit in the room and with a split of wine from the mini-bar, we took our ‘dinner’ out to lounge chairs by the lagoon and listened to the bullfrogs croak. There was a soft trade breeze carrying the sweet fragrance of tropical flowering trees. Without the reflection of city lights, the night sky was a blaze of stars, so close you could reach up and pick some. It was a magical evening, never to be forgotten.
Shoot. I’m way out of KB’s again. Looks like this will be a three-parter. Stay tuned.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 24, 2010
at 1:37 AM
“toxic conditions result when the military’s can-do culture collides with a cannot-be-done assignment.”
George Will
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By: Craig on June 23, 2010
at 10:04 PM
All good points alaskapi.
I don’t live in a vacuum, so I’m aware of the fact that there is a consensus of opinion.
But again..who wants to be the soloist?
Who wants to be the one that says its going to shit in a hand bag. Well we found out what happens.
The Colonel’s and Majors and NCO’s got a handfull today. Don’t look for too many to stick their heads above the parapet.
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By: Craig on June 23, 2010
at 10:01 PM
Helen and Margaret, is everything okay? It has been a while and I hope all is well with you and yours.
Nice discussions today. Nice to hear from you alaskapi.
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By: Easier on June 23, 2010
at 8:44 PM
We’re getting closer!
So close we can almost hear it!
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By: poolman on June 23, 2010
at 8:26 PM
Rae –
“Don’t disappear on us. If it makes you feel better, I posed the question to my son, the PhD in physics, and he said: “Easy. In the boat, the quarter displaces a volume of water that equals its weight, in the water it replaces its own volume. Water level goes up.”
Actually, it’s down, but I take your point.
I’m not going anywhere; I spent the day putting in a culvert pipe, so I haven’t been looking at the computer much. Hot, but much more fun than sitting in a dark room in front of four computer screens talking to myself. Nice shower, a little toddy, life is good. Thank Mr. Carrier for air conditioning; the South couldn’t function without it.
As for my last post – OK, maybe I went a little overboard, and for that I apologise. The fact is, not many things irritate me: preachers, Sarah Palin, George Bush. But unclear thinking probably ranks the highest. I have for the past fifteen years watched well-educated foreign graduate students bury American students in every class. Ignorance is fine; everybody starts out that way, but somehow this American education system has created a headlong race to the bottom and there is not a day that goes by that I am not exorcised by it. Call it a pet peeve. As I read the word salad on “malleability, ductility, compressing water,” I was struck with the sad notion , “jesus h. christ. Am I the only person here who can parse this out? This is gobbledygook.” (In fact, now that I think about it I am a little surprised that not a single other poster – except for you, now – has weighed in on the science – it’s really a sad commentary on the state of American education, isn’t it? Of course, liberal blogs are hardly hotbeds of hard science, are they?)
Which reminds me – what happened to the poster who challenged me on the MRI question? Another deafening silence…I’d actually like to know where he/she came up with that question. It’s not one you could generate by a little random googling, so there must be a good story somewhere…
So, I guess I shouldn’t write when I’m irritated – or drinking, although I think I’m doing OK now – but an old preacher friend of mine told me once, “Sometimes the lord’s burden is more than you can bear.” Maybe sometime I’ll tell you a tale about him, a blasphemer, a hatchet and a blistering summer day just like today.
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By: PFesser on June 23, 2010
at 8:18 PM
Craig- Go over and read the very unflattering opinions at the NY Times- from folks of all political persuasions about McChyrstal and troll around news outlets .
His firing is, by and large, accepted for a rather wide array of reasons.
The Prez did the right thing.
We have trouble here in Alaska with demonizing every appointment and action by our half-term ghastly gone gov, Ms Palin.
Facts are that she did appoint some decent folks to the administration and she did do a couple things right …
Watch out you don’t fall in that trap with this Prez…however much you disagree with him, he hasn’t done EVERYTHING wrong…
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By: alaskapi on June 23, 2010
at 8:16 PM
Uh, it just occurred to me that my brother the engineer would have approached the problem quite differently, because in his world the problem is about the wind as well as the physics. So maybe what we are having is a theoretical vs. practical discussion. Sorry to bring this all up again, but I’m sick of hearing about insubordinate subordinates. It just seems childish to me.
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By: Rae on June 23, 2010
at 7:12 PM
Craig, funny thing: Pres Obama has been rather consistently criticized for letting the generals run their own war. I do agree with you, however — Afghanistan is not winnable. Let’s see, didn’t Alexander the Great figure that out for us? However, it really has nothing to do with which specific weapons our troops are permitted to use. It’s a bigger set of problems.
Uh, PFesser, I wasn’t spanking; I was just advising. Don’t disappear on us. If it makes you feel better, I posed the question to my son, the PhD in physics, and he said: “Easy. In the boat, the quarter displaces a volume of water that equals its weight, in the water it replaces its own volume. Water level goes up.” I asked about all of the other things that might affect that, and he said, “The principle involved is best illustrated by this solution. Yes, the wind might lift the boat out of the water, but the problem isn’t about wind, now, is it?”
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By: Rae on June 23, 2010
at 7:09 PM
Food for thought dept (from George Will):
“It is difficult, and perhaps unwise, to suppress this thought:
McChrystal’s disrespectful flippancies, and the chorus of equally disdainful comments from the unpleasant subordinates he has chosen to have around him, emanate from the toxic conditions that result when the military’s can-do culture collides with a cannot-be-done assignment.
In this toxicity, Afghanistan is Vietnam redux.”
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By: Craig on June 23, 2010
at 6:49 PM
I haven’t read the article yet, but the phrase I keep hearing (from multiple commentators) to describe the comments of McChrystal (and his immediate subordinates) about the civilian administration is “utmost contempt’, apparently both in word and tone. And he said these things to a reporter’s microphone, on the record, over a period of about a month.
Utmost contempt. I can only imagine what McChrystal’s attitude would be now, if his resignation hadn’t been accepted. Guy already thought he was untouchable, too big to fail. If Obama had confirmed this by keeping him on, there’d have been no chain of command above McChrystal – he’d have been completely uncontrollable.
It’s ironic to hear the conservatives having a fit now – isn’t it their position that nobody should be too big to fail? Keeps coming up in other debates. The General screwed the pooch. Nobody to blame but himself. And the Commander in Chief did what he had to do.
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By: judith on June 23, 2010
at 5:23 PM
Craig, I pray for those in power that I am made aware of. Everyone has the ability to do good or evil in their “space” on this planet. Those in power influence everything under them, so their actions have greater consequences. I do not know the hearts of these people, only their names and maybe a little history – okay a lot of history on some (like Dick Cheney). We see their “fruit” sometimes and make our own judgments – whether they are for us (God’s kingdom) or against us. But truly I ask God to fill them with the presence of His Spirit and help guide them on paths of righteousness – that He would send them godly counsel and that they would seek Him first in their lives. That is basically it, unless I sense something else that I should pray regarding them. Heck Craig, you’re even on that list. 😉
Prayer is my WMD, as it were. My instructions are to pray for them.
“But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,…” (Matthew 5:44)
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By: Poolman on June 23, 2010
at 5:12 PM
Poolman..
McChrystal is or will be on your prayer list?
And if so why?
Considering your disdain for all things military.
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By: Craig on June 23, 2010
at 4:54 PM
I am glad that the president got rid McChrystal. He’ll say on my daily prayer list, but I see this as positive. “Afghan President Hamid Karzai had indicated he did not want Gen McChrystal replaced, describing him as the best commander in nine years of US military operations in Afghanistan.” I think more a case of “you scratch my back…” When this guy is wanting to keep you around, I’d be a bit concerned. Those familiar with Karzai’s acts and allegiances should not not be comfortable with this endorsement. Hopefully Petraeus will be a progressive change enabling us to get the hell out of there and soon! The scary thing now is the vast mineral resources that all the capitalists are licking their chops over. They will try to keep us occupying the land so they can profit from its wealth. Here we go again. Wars and rumors of wars, anyone?
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By: Poolman on June 23, 2010
at 4:38 PM
Greytdog, I’m sorry about those beaches. It has been some time since I’ve seen them, but I feel for all you people on the coast. I cannot imagine how depressing that is for all involved.
I get worked up when someone throws a cigarette butt or paper cup out of a car window. Fortunately, I haven’t been shot for some of my reactions. But the attitude that “the world is my trash can” has permeated much of our society for the past decades.
I grew up enjoying wilderness areas and camping. Subsequent visits to the same campgrounds always found them with less standing trees and more litter or graffiti. I have seen the same type of treatment of our planet by industry. The energy industry is certainly guilty of a great deal of harm to this spinning orb. And we just want the result, not too concerned with the means.
Underlying those acts is a lack of respect for our environment. Self-serving people living lives without concern for others inhabiting this planet – now and in years to come. This is the generation we have fostered. The whole planet is in rebellion. It will attempt to heal itself. All of creation is crying out. Now is the true test of those foundations that we’ve built on.
I have been to my God regarding this fracture/geyser in the gulf. I have been praying that He miraculously seal it. I have asked forgiveness for our stupidity that caused it to begin with. If you have faith in the supernatural, please join with me in believing this will be sealed. I’ve asked Him to seal it in diamonds, but hey, that is just what came to mind…..
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By: Poolman on June 23, 2010
at 4:16 PM
I’d like to see that poll of the men in country whose reported support he had lost.
More likely the Poll would indicate that if you want to fight a war..then let the Generals and officers in the field be the determining factor as to how to fight and wage war against an unconventional enemy.
Trying to wage a war against an enemy who shields and hides himself behind women and children leave options that are sometimes not great.
But leave the option to the soldiers in the field.
When our own soldiers cannot fire smoke grenades or count on air support for fear of hitting civilians then you have given the enemy a strategic advantage.
Are we in it to make a difference for the people of Afghanistan?.. Or just get by for another year till The President can start the pull out, and start campaigning?
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By: Craig on June 23, 2010
at 4:08 PM
there are
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By: lori on June 23, 2010
at 3:25 PM
Well we live in a country where our military is run by civilians. The commander and chief.. elected by a huge margin mind you, the head of that army, says it’s time to go .. it’s time to go… If Stanley, or anyone else, doesn’t like that and wants to run his own military, or live in a country that rolls that way, there a few a countries out there from which to chose.
Good job Mr. President!
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By: lori on June 23, 2010
at 3:23 PM
Tar is now washing ashore on the (once) pristine white beaches of Pensacola. The wind is from a SE direction & pushing more oil towards the beaches. . .summer is going to be a long awful one. Add in the very real possibility of a tropical storm heading towards the Gulf. . .
McChrystal: he wasn’t busted down in rank, just relieved of his command. It will be a mark on his service record, but he got off pretty lightly. Probably a book deal or two, certainly a News Analyst gig on Faux News. But he will always be remembered as the General who oversaw and implemented the Tillman coverup (including a bogus medal award used to further the deception) as well as the man who thought he was indispensable to the war. As De Gaulle pointed out, graveyards are full of indispensable men. Obama had no choice – & he did the right thing. Not only had McChrystal lost the confidence of the Commander In Chief he’d lost the confidence of the soldiers in country. When you’ve lost the support of the troops you’re leading, you’re done.
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By: Greytdog on June 23, 2010
at 3:12 PM
Ms. Jean,
I disagree with your insight.
President Obama.
Eloquent and ..well Commander in Chief by the office in which he holds.
Gen McChrystal doing what he did best and rising to the top by his achievements as a career soldier and war fighter.
And this was long before Obama became a community organizer of a city which had 52 shootings last weekend ending with 7 deaths.
Did Obama do the right thing.
I do not think so.
We are in the 11th hour of this war and Pres.Obama wants to let everyone know that this is his sandbox. He will inherit the wind and probably disdain of the rest of the command.
But I don’t think he cares. And Biden was probably biting his lip the whole time to keep from wanting to add his two cents about a General he did not like. So it was what it was. A lynching.
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By: Craig on June 23, 2010
at 3:07 PM
Your recent blog entry has me convinced I am living in the wrong country. If I could just afford my own island, life would be grand.
“The world is not dangerous because of those who do harm, but because of those who look at it without doing anything”
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By: Marvelous on June 23, 2010
at 2:58 PM
Mixed news day. McChrystal has been sacked, Petraeus has been chosen to replace him, Barton keeps hanging on, the US advanced in the World Cup, and the BP oil cap was removed for a repair and oil is gushing faster than ever.
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By: delurkergurl on June 23, 2010
at 2:32 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I think President Obama made a difficult but wise decision about General McChrystal. The president’s remarks were very generous and gracious regarding the general’s career. I feel we have an able Commander-in Chief, eloquent and competant.
Unfortunately, at best, McChrystal was busted down to buck private for conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.
Ho’oponopono – working together, resolving conflicts……….
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 23, 2010
at 2:30 PM
Its always good to question..”challenge” is a sort of confrontational term.
I had not seen this site to be confrontational as much as for the exchange of ideas and thought.
Physics.
Philosophy.
Religion.
Do they not all leave something for interpretation?
Physics maybe not so much..but still can be debated as has been demonstrated in the past couple days of postings.
Its time to move on boys.
And as you said Poolman,its time to “reach out”.
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By: Chrystal on June 23, 2010
at 2:24 PM
“Poolman , what is to be gained by this continued
mine is bigger than yours argument?” – Chrystal
I’m sorry it came off to you that way, and that was truly not my intent going in.
I will always challenge what others declare as factual and set-in-stone when I know they are not. Until you understand square one, you cannot move to conclude anything regarding the subsequent squares. They are ALL influenced by the first square. It is known as a solid foundation. From that important support, you can build and reach out.
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By: Poolman on June 23, 2010
at 2:08 PM
I believe there are two very intelligent men here who are right in their convictions and thoughts yet will not yield the field to the other.
Your both probably right.
Professor, I would just agree to let Poolman win.
Poolman , what is to be gained by this continued
mine is bigger than yours argument?
Professor, seems as if your outnumbered here anyway as far as popular voting is concerned right or wrong.
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By: Chrystal on June 23, 2010
at 1:52 PM
PFesser
You’ve been spanked. Now go away
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By: Anonymous on June 23, 2010
at 1:17 PM
Amen that delurker. Fortunately or not, that white elephant is going to be the ride or the road for us all.
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By: Poolman on June 23, 2010
at 1:12 PM
I don’t expect everyone to agree, but from my perspective I don’t know how anyone can understand even a little bit of what science has revealed and reject that God is behind it.
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By: delurkergurl on June 23, 2010
at 1:02 PM
fan that rae!
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By: lori on June 23, 2010
at 12:38 PM
PFesser – you need to relax here. Yes, ignorance of science is a big problem. It brings us la-di-dah stuff like creationism. It wastes our time and our resources. However, there is no way you can pound someone into thinking like a scientist. Give it up. Just stop talking. It’s the only sane thing to do.
Greytdog – back in those days it was easier to have heroes, because nobody knew anything about anyone, so myth was reality, propaganda ruled, and true believers roamed the earth. Clearly there are good things about that, and clearly there are bad things. We’ve traded it in for advertising.
Auntie Jean – I see you are the peacemaker. Good try.
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By: Rae on June 23, 2010
at 12:35 PM
Jim – Very cordial of you to allow me the last word. I’ll not use it to attack your intellect, occupation, education, or beliefs. Just some common sense that seems far from common today.
Suffice it to say, simple definitions sometimes define complex processes. Funny that the definition of compression is “an increase in the density of something”, and the definition of density is “the mass per unit volume of a substance under specified conditions of pressure and temperature.” Funny, yet you have statedly denied their relationship.
As an “advanced” species that exists in the flesh primarily as water, we don’t hardly understand the properties of water at all. We know how to pollute it, but we can’t reproduce it. We have explored less than 5 percent of our oceans and seas. We can’t explain light, but depend on it for ALL other discoveries. We cannot produce or eliminate matter – or explain where it came from – yet we draw conclusions about its properties, using elements we don’t fully understand, changing those THEORIES as we discover their fallacies, replacing them with new, albeit still inconclusive ones. That Jewish fable would say it’s “A chasing after the wind. Meaningless.”
Laws of God? Funny. Once again, if you can’t understand a spirit realm occupying the same physical space we do – undetected or affected by “natural” laws – then there will always be limitations to your comprehension.
Thanks for the banter, professor. It’s fun and tends to sharpen the mind and wit – my 2 bits.
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By: Poolman on June 23, 2010
at 12:33 PM
hehehhehehe I am thinking not too delurker..LOL
Don’t feel bad I was SHOCKED when I first heard what it meant as well.. I always heard my Jewish neighbor use the term when she was disgusted with her husband!
It’s a new world out there! LOL
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By: lori on June 23, 2010
at 11:41 AM
Um. Defeinitely NOT! Think yiddish, not urban!
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By: delurkergurl on June 23, 2010
at 11:39 AM
I’m afraid to go look, Lori! Probably not.
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By: delurkergurl on June 23, 2010
at 11:36 AM
I’m just making a wild guess here butttt im guessing JImmy’s mailbox isn’t over flowing with invitations to cocktail parties?
Delurker would that be the urband dictionary term your referring to? (feh) ? lol I washed a young boys mouth out with soap that used that term.. LOL LOL
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By: lori on June 23, 2010
at 11:26 AM
It’ll be interesting to see what Poolman chooses as his last word, if he chooses to indulge you, Jim. My choice would be ‘Feh.’
So glad you’ve cordially released the discussion, though! I was starting to think you are a jerk!
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By: delurkergurl on June 23, 2010
at 11:05 AM
poolman
Nice try, but you and I both know exactly what I am talking about. Over and over you have confused pressure and density; you are unable to look at a simple chart of density and interpret it to see what the limits are, and that even the upper limit is an order of magnitude below that required for what you propose.
You also don’t understand the concept of uniform pressure in a fluid – that’s what gases and liquids are called, because the laws governing them both are the same, and how uniform pressure keeps not only rocks – but animals – from being squashed at depth. When you are called out on this nonsense, you try to confuse the issue – or maybe you are just confused yourself – with an illogical word salad (malleability, DUCTILITY???), and then try to cover your tracks with a swipe about how the working class hero understands how “water works in volume.” Hehee….(FYI, it works the same in volume as it works in aliquots. That’s your god’s laws of physics again.)
Try this Law_of_God: “impenetrability of matter.” That’s been around a long time. Maybe when you understand it, you will see why “compressed water” is not possible.
“Maybe you aren’t sure about how water works in volume. That’s understandable. It falls more in my area of experience. Pencil pushing works fine for theorizing. Hand’s on with the elements gives a slightly different perspective.”
Yes I know all about experience – it is a fine teacher – but only after you have some training and understand the fundamentals. Otherwise it just teaches you how to do it wrong, over and over. Believe me, I’ve spent my life cleaning up after those with no training – but lots of “experience.”
“Or maybe the issue lies with the fact that the very density test itself uses WATER (at sea level properties) as it’s benchmark and makes no allowance for compressed water (which you said can’t happen), or how other materials react in that environment COMMONLY found under miles of ocean.”
Uh, no. My only advice is, do some reading. Basic hydraulics and physics ain’t that hard. And please, save yourself some embarrassment and don’t refer any more to “compressed water.”
Naval men refer to the Coast Guard as “shallow water sailors.” That’s you: a shallow water sailor. A pool man – because beyond twelve feet, you are figuratively – and literally – out of your depth.
I’ll give you the last word.
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 23, 2010
at 10:54 AM
Jean,
I remember that walk down to the beach.We almost thought it to be non existent. Nice beach to swim at and the beach a few miles down from there was a hike thru a park as I remember to a great lil beach where there was some pretty good snorkeling.
AS for Hana I remember almost turning an ankle on the rocks at 7 sacred falls. Then someone added that the only reason they called the falls the name they did was to get tourists over to that side of the Island.
So I guess you can include myself and parents in that group of “dumb” tourists.
My husband and I have been back since to Hawaii
and have dived the islands of Maui and Lanai as well as the Molikini crater. Beautiful water and creatures. Giant rays and even swam thru a lava tube with a sleeping?..white tip reef shark..at least they said he was sleeping.
My husband and I most recently “October”,went to Oahu and stayed at the Hilton village. My husbands company had a convention meeting there. We really stayed just at the beach this trip and ate out at outside local restaurants, cheaper and better service. My last memory is staying at the Hyatt on Kauai where the waves just about tore my top from me and tumbled me over and over again. Needless to say that was my last trip into the water at that beach. Thanks for your thoughts.
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By: Chrystal on June 23, 2010
at 9:47 AM
I’m not sure we will ever replicate the politics of the past given the way of modern news cycles and availability to access the “news” not to mention the personal minutia broadcast over the air waves on a minute by minute basis. I’m not sure MacAurthur would enjoy the level of popularity in today’s world.
On the same subject I like Keith Olbermann and most of the time I agree with his point of view, however he is seldom correct on how to handle things from a political perspective and this time is no exception. IMHO… Stanley needs to go..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/23/olbermann-tells-obama-rej_n_622035.html
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By: lori on June 23, 2010
at 9:15 AM
There are some major differences between the MacArthur/Truman row and the current McChrystal/Obama situation. MacArthur disagreed vehemently and loudly about the course of action Truman was taking – the course of action is Afghanistan is actually McChrystal’s plan. Also despite his grandstanding and love of PR, MacArthur enjoyed the loyalty of the soldiers under his command, for the most part. McChrystal, however, does not have the confidence of the troops in country. His plan is not working – Am. casualties have actually risen under his command, while the Taliban has become more entrenched into the local population. When a commanding officer loses the trust and confidence of the troops he oversees, he can no longer lead. To the day he died, MacArthur retained the loyalty of his troops. About a year before his death, MacArthur returned to the Philippines. I was lucky to be there at the parade & reception in his honor. The streets were absolutely packed with Filipinos and Americans who were excited and thrilled to see the General one more time. He was not universally adored, but even at an advanced age, he remained a leader people looked to for inspiration.
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By: Greytdog on June 23, 2010
at 8:50 AM
So be it, Anonymous Jim.
If you can’t agree with the data you link to explain your “facts”, then I’m not surprised you’d give up. Maybe you aren’t sure about how water works in volume. That’s understandable. It falls more in my area of experience. Pencil pushing works fine for theorizing. Hand’s on with the elements gives a slightly different perspective.
Or maybe the issue lies with the fact that the very density test itself uses WATER (at sea level properties) as it’s benchmark and makes no allowance for compressed water (which you said can’t happen), or how other materials react in that environment COMMONLY found under miles of ocean.
So, I guess I shouldn’t expect revelations regarding sea life at those depths, or an attempt to ‘splain light or chemically induced light? I’m a little disappointed, but not surprised. The greatest “density” that exists in this world has got to be the human mind. C’est la vie.
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By: Poolman on June 23, 2010
at 8:12 AM
Margaret, Helen, I miss you. Really. I mean it. Really.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 23, 2010
at 7:07 AM
Poolman –
I’m sorry – I can’t discuss physics with you – either you are pulling my leg just to have some fun or you just don’t have the background to understand the topic. The basic examples, such as whether a wall pushes back when you lean on it, are the classic thought experiments that have been taught in freshman engineering classes for over a hundred years. Ditto questions of incompressibility and whether a solid object can be compressed by a uniform pressure on all sides. Being able to read a basic density chart, such as I linked to, and determine what floats and doesn’t is not rocket science either – you can do it or you can’t.
I can’t help you. Sorry.
Jim
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By: Anonymous on June 23, 2010
at 4:35 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Chrystal on June 21, 2010 at 9:10AM,
Most everyone knows and has seen the movie “South Pacific”. It was filmed on the North Shore of Kauai; much of it at Lumahai Beach made famous as the “Nurses’ Beach”. To get to it, you used to have to hike down a very treacherous trail from the steep Pali (cliff) to the beach. It is now so popular as a tourist attraction that a decent trail has been cut down to it. Further west is my favorite beach on Maniniholo Bay. You can trudge east through the sand on that beach from there and climb over some big rocks to get to Lumahai, but it is quite a hike. All this is about a 30 minute drive from our home.
Oh, yeah, and then there’s Hana on Maui. Way back when we were tourists, we tried to drive there. The narrow winding road was chiseled right out of the Pali going down to the ocean. We knew we would never make it all the way down to Hana, see anything and get back to Kihea or Lahaina, wherever we were staying. It is some fiftyish miles south from Kahalui to Hana on the Southeast Coast of Maui. So we only went about a quarter of the way and turned back.
A number of years later after we had moved out here we still had a hankerin’ to see the ‘Seven Sacred Falls’ and ‘Seven Sacred Pools’ near Hana so we decided to fly down. We got a reservation at the one and only (very posh) hotel at the Kama’aina rate for half price. As a Hawaiian resident, if you flash your Hawaiian driver’s license, they give you a discounted or much reduced rate at a lot of place and stores.
Naturally, we sock it to the tourists. Now, in this tough economy however, the Kama’aina rates are rapidly disappearing. Most of the tourists are very nice, but there are a few loud, demanding and obnoxious ones. As most people know, it is always tourist season out here. There is an old joke, “If it’s Tourist Season, why can’t we shoot ‘em?”
You can always easily spot the tourists, especially the ‘Haole’ tourists. They wear the most outlandish mixtures of shorts and loud shirts or tops they wouldn’t be caught dead in at home on the mainland. And the white, white legs of both sexes; the men with their black socks and sandals. We see them with horrendous sunburns at Wal-Mart, stocking up on Banana Boat Aloe Gel and sunscreen (too late). Fashion nightmares! For sure, you can always tell the honeymooners too, not so much from their lovey-dovey ways but from the groom’s brand new haircut.
Anyway, we boarded a little 19-seat Aloha Island Air plane, no lavatory. (Both Aloha and its subsidiary, Aloha Island Air, are out of business now.) There was a man by the door out on the tarmac with a little one step stool, helping the passengers to board. Then he pulled in the stool, closed the door and went up to the open cockpit. Turned out he was the co-pilot. We put-putted to Honolulu, Oahu, and on down the island chain.
By the time we got to Kaunakakai, Moloka’i, I had to go to the bathroom. A few passengers were deplaning and boarding so I asked the co-pilot if there was time for me to go the bathroom. Sure, he would escort me to one of the service buildings that had one so I wouldn’t have to go all the way into the teeny terminal. Again, we were way out on the tarmac. The plane waited for me, I boarded again, the co-pilot pulled up the stool, closed the door and we were off to Kahalui, Maui and then on to Hana.
From there we flew the most beautiful flight I think we have ever taken. We were only at a couple thousand feet of altitude, hugging the Pali, parallel with and following along that little winding road we were too chicken to drive. Below us was the bright azure blue water lapping at the base of the green and brown Pali. The little plane was listing sidewise because the passengers were all on the right side of the cabin to see out the windows. Utterly breathtaking!!!
We picked up a rental car and checked into the lovely hotel just in time for a late lunch in the deserted dining room. Yikes! The only thing on the menu that jumped out at us was a ham sandwich for $15.00 – each. Cheapest with no Kama’aina rate. Turned out it was two slices of white bread with a thin slice of ham. Period. No mayo, no mustard, no lettuce, no tomatoes, no chips. Just bread and ham. OK.
The little town of Hana sported one gas station and a small general store. As we took off for the Seven Sacred Falls, we decided we could stop on the way back and stock up on some staples of some kind at the general store for dinner. We had noticed a lovely bowl of fresh fruit in the room so we would be all set.
I see I have used up my 25 KB for now, so I’ll have to continue this next time. Don’t go away too far. It gets exciting!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 23, 2010
at 1:37 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Donna,
Have you given any thought to Reincarnation? I have! Sounds like a plan to me. Here’s how it works:
I wish I wus a little rock, a sittin’ on a hill.
I wouldn’t do a single thing but keep a sittin’ still.
I wouldn’t sleep, I wouldn’t eat, I wouldn’t even wash.
I wouldn’t do a single thing but rest myself, by gosh!
Aloha and Shalom.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 23, 2010
at 12:42 AM
I’m going to break this one up:
“Also no. Only if it were hollow, with a gas or vacuum inside. Solid metals would not deform, since the pressure would be immediately balanced.” – Jim
Well, now I feel I’m being led down a path. This is silly. Pressure exerted from all sides would compress the mass into a size that would mimic the density of whatever was exhibiting the force on it. In a liquid, that pressure would be uniform on all sides. If the object (quarter) is not a true formed solid, it would fall apart.
“(Think about leaning against a wall. Does it push back? Of course it does, otherwise it would fall down.)” – Jim
Leaning against a wall does involve a little push back by the materials of the wall, but it is primarily the push against the pull of gravity that accounts for its structural integrity. When we lean against it, much of the force we are exerting is absorbed by the wall and is transferred to it’s footing and supporting structures.
“When you squeeze a metal it pushes back, just like the rocks under the ocean floor that are under tremendous pressure. Do they collapse? Of course not.” – Jim
Some metals are more malleable, like lead, while others are ductile. The push back principle is not effective with a continual push from all sides. It becomes a matter of integrity with the denser mass prevailing over the less dense mass. Still, an even pressure from all sides will compress them all, if the pressure exceeds the density of the metal. The same with rocks, and any other solids, liquids, or gases in that environment. If the seafloor collapsed, where would it go?
“Do the fish and other small animals collapse at depth? No. Why do you think that is? Because they are mostly incompressible liquid and they push back without deforming.” – Jim
Okay, I’ll bite – got a link?
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 11:50 PM
“That is not density. That is pressure. It is very important to understand that they are two different things.” – Jim
Though I agree in principle, in this case they are related. The molecules of water – let’s say seven miles deep – are WAY more densely packed than at the surface, since density tells us how much stuff has been packed into a certain amount of space. Again, try the simple water bottle test.
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 10:42 PM
“The temperature of the ocean decreases and decreases as you go to the bottom of the ocean. So, the density of ocean water increases and increases as you go to the bottom of the ocean.”
“No it doesn’t….” – Jim
The facts came from the link you provided. These are not my words, thus the quotation.
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 10:22 PM
“The temperature of the ocean decreases and decreases as you go to the bottom of the ocean. So, the density of ocean water increases and increases as you go to the bottom of the ocean.”
No it doesn’t. You saw the curve. Density increases with depth a negligible amount (about 3 parts per thousand) up to about a thousand metres deep, then does not increase further. Temperature and density are two different things.
“The deep ocean is layered with the densest water on bottom and the lightest water on top. Circulation in the depths of the ocean is horizontal. That is, water moves along the layers with the same density.”
Yes that is true, and it is due the miniscule density differences caused by water temperature differences. But while those differences can cause layers in water, the density of water will never ever exceed that of a metal coin.
It’s pretty simple: from the curve, max density of water is about 1.028 g/cm^3. Coins are copper (abt 9 X water), nickel, (about 9 X water), silver (about 10.5 X water.)
So no matter how you slice it, it’s never going to happen. Quick and dirty math from above suggests that any coin is going to be at least 8 X as dense as any water under any condition – including frozen. (Actually frozen water is less dense than liquid water, which is why it floats.) If memory serves, max density of water is about 40 degrees F or 4 deg. C.
” If you limit it to where we’ve been, that’s about seven miles deep. I don’t think gravity was measured there, but the density was measured at 8 tons per square inch. ”
That is not density. That is pressure. It is very important to understand that they are two different things. (like temperature and density are two different things)
“Most quarters are primarily copper with some nickel, so if the salt didn’t eat it on its way down,”
Uh, no.
“the pressures would do it in.”
Also no. Only if it were hollow, with a gas or vacuum inside. Solid metals would not deform, since the pressure would be immediately balanced. (Think about leaning against a wall. Does it push back? Of course it does, otherwise it would fall down.) When you squeeze a metal it pushes back, just like the rocks under the ocean floor that are under tremendous pressure. Do they collapse? Of course not. Do the fish and other small animals collapse at depth? No. Why do you think that is? Because they are mostly incompressible liquid and they push back without deforming.
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By: PFesser53 on June 22, 2010
at 9:04 PM
And Auntie Jean, here’s a MacArthur story. He married late, to a woman much younger than he, and they had one son. Mrs. MacArthur followed her son to college, and rented a room from the window of which she could look into his dorm room, to make sure he was studying. Now that’s a helicopter mom.
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By: Rae on June 22, 2010
at 8:22 PM
Well, I thought about the quarter problem while I was taking a shower, and got the physics right, I am proud to say. Who’d have thought that there could be so much conversation about a science problem on a blog? And how refreshing, really.
A personal story – my son banned me from his schools beginning in Middle School, and I had never met a teacher since 6th grade. (Long story — he is quite independent.) When he was in grad school, he invited me to attend his relativity seminar with him, and it made my day. Didn’t understand a thing, of course, although I could at least follow the conversation a bit. Pretty weird, though — a bunch of odd, mostly foreign kids, and one old lady. The professor looked over at me, and just shrugged.
Some of the students were barefoot, and my son told me later those were the math grad students. “None of the math grad students wear shoes.” Can someone explain that to me? I assume it’s not due to a need to count with toes.
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By: Rae on June 22, 2010
at 8:19 PM
From the link you provided:
“The temperature of the ocean decreases and decreases as you go to the bottom of the ocean. So, the density of ocean water increases and increases as you go to the bottom of the ocean. The deep ocean is layered with the densest water on bottom and the lightest water on top. Circulation in the depths of the ocean is horizontal. That is, water moves along the layers with the same density.”
“…even at the bottom of the Marianas trench …” – Jim
If you limit it to where we’ve been, that’s about seven miles deep. I don’t think gravity was measured there, but the density was measured at 8 tons per square inch. Most quarters are primarily copper with some nickel, so if the salt didn’t eat it on its way down, the pressures would do it in. Likely though, it would end up in the belly of a fish if dumped off over that trench. 😉
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 7:19 PM
“No. Water is for all practical purposes incompressible.” – Jim
Not! ONLY REFERRED TO as incompressible!
“The water at the bottom of the ocean is compressed by the weight of the water above it all the way to the surface, and is more dense than the water at the surface. A consequence of compressing a fluid is that the viscosity, that is the resistance of the fluid to flow, also increases as the density increases. This is because the atoms are forced closer together, and thus cannot slip by each other as easily as they can when the fluid is at atmospheric pressure.”
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 7:13 PM
Lori..
I have to ask about your avatar.
Are you the one on the right or left?
Jus curious…….sisters?
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By: gregorio on June 22, 2010
at 5:29 PM
“In a pool, this is true. However, as the water gets deeper still, its density increases and VOLUME decreases (take a plastic bottle of surface water down there with you – or fill one at depth and try to get it to surface to calculate its WEIGHT). This is due primarily to atmospheric/hydrostatic pressure and at some point it would equal that of the metals in the quarter.”
Nope. Seawater, for example starts at about 1.025 kg/m^3 at the surface and gets to about 1.028 at 1000 m depth, thence stays the same to the bottom of the sea. What is that, 3 parts/1000 or so for ~.6 of a mile deep? If you want to call that a density change, OK, but it’s insignificant. Of course, the quarter would be subject to the same pressure, wouldn’t it?
Atmospheric pressure is limited to, well, one atmosphere. That’s 15 p.s.i – insignificant. At 33’/atmosphere, a 12′ pool would be about 1.3 atmospheres or so. Again negligible. Remember, it takes 1000 metres to go from 1.025 to 1.028.
http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Water/density.html
In theory, the “pull” of gravity lessens closer to the core and the resistance (friction) of the water would increase as it became denser, causing it to “float”.
I had to think about that one a little. g goes generally as the product of the two masses divided by the square of the distance between them, as I recall, but below the surface of the earth it DOES diminish. However, with a earth’s radius of ~ 4000 miles, reduction in gravity even at the bottom of the Marianas trench would be negligible.
The WEIGHT of the quarter would be less than the water molecules occupying the same space (VOLUME).
Nope. More. Think about it. Where’s the Titanic? In about 12,000′ of water. On the bottom. That’s pretty deep; if your theory held water – so to speak – it should be floating somewhere above that level. And before you say it’s a big boat, it’s not the total weight; it’s the density of the material that matters.
“Therefore, the VOLUME of water would increase as it “neutralized gravity” (weightlessness) and absorbed the WEIGHT of the quarter, forcing the level to go up at the surface of the water.”
??? I have no idea what you just said. Sorry.
“Water, being a liquid, is already compressed,”
No. Water is for all practical purposes incompressible.
“whereas in the air (our lower atmosphere) pressure is much less severe and can absorb dense matter without changing its VOLUME.”
??? I think you are getting way out here…
The same WEIGHT of the quarter in our atmosphere that displaces the water by “pushing” on it in the boat, causing the level to rise at the surface will in turn create the same effect to the surface of the water by becoming part of the VOLUME and WEIGHT of the water itself.
What? I don’t know what you just said, but for all practical purposes, water is incompressible, and Archimedes’ principle holds: The quarter will at all depths displace its volume and in the boat, its weight. Nothing else comes into play.
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By: PFesser on June 22, 2010
at 5:20 PM
Gregorio, I wasn’t familiar with his career, but very impressed when I checked it out. I am sure there are many that would want to discredit him after his campaign to expose the military industrial complex for what it is. I would venture to say they offed him to. Butler continued his speaking engagements in an extended tour but in June 1940 checked himself into a naval hospital, dying a few weeks later from what was believed to be cancer. Too many mysterious and fast acting cancers seem to get to many of these folks. I have amassed a big list that have conveniently been silenced that way or by suspicious suicides.
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 4:49 PM
oooooooo good one Jean… you’re so right i didn’t think of that.
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By: lori on June 22, 2010
at 4:11 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Pesident Obama ~ ~ ~ General McChrystal.
Shades of:
President Truman ~ ~ ~ General McArthur.
Let’s see how this plays out.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 22, 2010
at 4:10 PM
“The quarter displaces its WEIGHT of water when in the boat, its VOLUME of water when in the water. The volume of the first is greater than the volume of the second, so the water level goes down.” – Jim
In a pool, this is true. However, as the water gets deeper still, its density increases and VOLUME decreases (take a plastic bottle of surface water down there with you – or fill one at depth and try to get it to surface to calculate its WEIGHT). This is due primarily to atmospheric/hydrostatic pressure and at some point it would equal that of the metals in the quarter. In theory, the “pull” of gravity lessens closer to the core and the resistance (friction) of the water would increase as it became denser, causing it to “float”. The WEIGHT of the quarter would be less than the water molecules occupying the same space (VOLUME).
Therefore, the VOLUME of water would increase as it “neutralized gravity” (weightlessness) and absorbed the WEIGHT of the quarter, forcing the level to go up at the surface of the water. Water, being a liquid, is already compressed, whereas in the air (our lower atmosphere) pressure is much less severe and can absorb dense matter without changing its VOLUME. The same WEIGHT of the quarter in our atmosphere that displaces the water by “pushing” on it in the boat, causing the level to rise at the surface will in turn create the same effect to the surface of the water by becoming part of the VOLUME and WEIGHT of the water itself.
But light would likely not penetrate the density and sheer volume of water above to make the quarter visible to mankind, making it only visible to bioluminescent life forms. What’s with that? ‘Splain those to me. I believe our Creator has a great sense of humor! 🙂
There are liquids, solids, and gases that we detect in our physical world. We can change them back and forth, mix it up, screw with the molecular structures, etc. But in the end, we can’t produce matter. We can’t even make it go away. It is a balance like everything else. I see Balance = Order = Design = Intelligence
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 4:05 PM
lol I have no answers Craig.
I never talk religion, especially on blogs with strangers. LOL
I only talk politics that keeps me in enough hot water! LOL
I was just commenting on how dated Jim’s post is. I read that mass e-mail he posted 10 years ago and about 50 different versions of it since.
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By: lori on June 22, 2010
at 4:00 PM
Lev.19:19
Old Testament?
I think that refers to not wearing white shoes before Easter.
Really Professor..I’m certainly not a proponent of being knowledgeable about the Bible.
I just said I don’t need a Bible to adhere to in order for me to get thru the day. Its a good “go by”.
Just don’t go mixing yer sheep up with the neighbors or spreading cotton seeds and vegetable seeds together? Close enough?
But as far as being an expert..sounds like Lori has the answer to this one..so I defer to her for the answer.
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By: gregorio on June 22, 2010
at 3:54 PM
Poolman,
Read the biography of your reported Marine officer Two time Medal of Honor winner. At first seemed like he was hard core Marine from the Boxer rebellion to the Banana Wars then the tires came off.
Seems he went a little left of center before the second world war because he did not get his promotion to Commandant. Seems he ruffled some feathers between the wars in his civilian roles in Cleveland I think? Any way sounds like he went American First in order to make waves..Medal of Honor winner or not in the Banana wars and at that time..it sounded like they were giving out awards to just have them out there. Interesting life though..just wonder if he had his whole wits about him when he passed…
So I don’t think he can be considered a shining star of anti war movement.
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By: gregorio on June 22, 2010
at 3:38 PM
Oh good heavens Jim can’t you come up with something more original?
That’s as old as the hills.
Surely you’re not taking credit for that old drivel are you?
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By: lori on June 22, 2010
at 3:32 PM
Gregorio –
You seem to know a lot about the bible. I had some questions concerning scripture:
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble
of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.
Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
Can I just smite them or something?
Thanks for helping me clarify this sometimes-confusing book.
Jim
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By: Jim on June 22, 2010
at 3:28 PM
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)
And so who was there to write this verse down?
I’m not a non believer, but I do question the authority of the Bible as to its authority “over” people.
I look at the Bible as a Cliff notes to life in general.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Is that not the same as the golden rule?
“Principal philosophers and religious figures have stated it in different ways, but its most common English phrasing is attributed to Jesus of Nazareth in the Biblical book of Matthew”.
But this same philosophy with different wording is also seen in the writings of famous Greek Philsophers Pittacus,Thales and Isocrates
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By: gregorio on June 22, 2010
at 1:24 PM
That’s a lovely post, Poolman. Even for you–which is saying alot. Many thanks
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By: Donna on June 22, 2010
at 12:50 PM
Donna, I agree we will not fully know until we exit this physical existence. I believe that God is more concerned with our heart and innermost being, rather than our outward rituals or with groupthink. I differ from most who claim to be a believer in that I don’t limit Him to a certain religion, book, or condition. The more we seek and learn, the more there is to seek and learn. I think when we begin to box Him in and pin down His characteristics, we begin to close our minds to Him. This will limit other possibilities and discoveries of truth. It gives us a sense of security, but limits our learning. All in all, it certainly is an interesting journey we are all on.
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 12:42 PM
Poolman –
Well all those variables do make a difference, Jim.
Sorry. Not so.
Also the surfaces contacting the water – boat and pool – whether wicking is a factor, if the contact surfaces are porous or do they repel water.
Not relevant. For the purposes of the question, assume all factors are constant, except the position of the quarter before and after the toss.
Atmospheric pressure, relationship elevation-wise to sea level, was there a splash, etc., etc…..
Not relevant.
But let’s say it is ideal and excluding all other factors, the water will drop a miniscule amount.
Yes!
The reason is the density, weight, and volume
No, not the volume. That is the crux of the answer.
of the quarter is greater than the water at most pool depths.
No, ALL pool depths. The density is always more than water, or at some level the quarter would stop falling to the bottom of the pool and remain at that level.
The reduced weight of the boat would cause the boat to rise, displacing less water that the quarter would.
Yes.
The quarter displaces its WEIGHT of water when in the boat, its VOLUME of water when in the water. The volume of the first is greater than the volume of the second, so the water level goes down.
Very good.
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By: Jim on June 22, 2010
at 12:39 PM
Well all those variables do make a difference, Jim. Also the surfaces contacting the water – boat and pool – whether wicking is a factor, if the contact surfaces are porous or do they repel water. Atmospheric pressure, relationship elevation-wise to sea level, was there a splash, etc., etc…..
But let’s say it is ideal and excluding all other factors, the water will drop a miniscule amount. The reason is the density, weight, and volume of the quarter is greater than the water at most pool depths. The reduced weight of the boat would cause the boat to rise, displacing less water that the quarter would.
Okay, your turn. 😉
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 12:19 PM
Poolman: I have found the whole debate very interesting. However, for me it comes down to the fact that I will never know. I also can’t believe that one religion is correct (e.g., citations to the passages you quote above) and others are wrong.
My heritage is Jewish and I try to observe many of our traditions. I choose to do so, but not because I believe that there is a “right” answer. I also am able to, for example, appreciate the incredible art and music that have come out of other religious traditions (such as the pieta that Auntie Jean speaks of).
I often wish I had faith–but I do not. It would certainly make life easier sometimes.
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By: Donna on June 22, 2010
at 11:55 AM
Okay, all you nonbelievers. I got a good riddle for you. We should be able to figure this one out after all these years with all our advanced technology and knowledge. Being the highly evolved biped that we are, we wouldn’t simply sweep something under a rug and ignore it, or would we? There is a simple and common characteristic of our reality that gives birth to all the other searches for truth that we venture into. A force than most of us take for granted. Surely we understand the basics, allowing us to advance to the more complex. Surely. Or not? How about tackling this simple question: What is light?
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)
“While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” (John 9:5)
“This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.” (1 John 1:5)
Seems to me if you can define what the essence of light is, you have discovered the essence of God. If you cannot isolate that basic phenomenon
and define it, how can you have confidence in all other experiments that rely on it? Jim? Anyone? And how do we define faith? ‘Splain away, I’m listening.
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 11:34 AM
Lori –
Excellent sentiment. Count me in.
Poolman –
C’mon, dude – I thought you would be the very first to get it.
“Here’s one for you: You are sitting in a rowboat in a swimming pool, whose water level can be measured to an arbitrary degree of precision. You take a quarter out of your pocket and throw it into the water.
Does the water level go up, down or stay the same? Support your answer.” – Jim
If it involves a swimming pool, I can answer it.
The answer could go 3 ways:
No.
1. The level remains the same – most plausible.
I won’t say right now.
2. The level rises due to water displacement by the quarter’s volume.
3. The level drops due to less weight in the boat displacing the pool’s water.
Both true. Which is more and why?
To give the correct answer, the following variables need to be established:
1. Is this performed in daylight or night?
Irrelevant
2. What is the relative humidity and dew point?
Irrelevant
3. Temperatures of the ambient air and water?
Irrelevant
4. The average depth of the pool?
Irrelevant
5. The surface area and capacity of the pool?
Irrelevant
6. Is it an above ground pool, partially inground, or completely inground?
Doesn’t matter.
7. What are the pool walls constructed of?
Irrelevant
8. Is the water circulating or stagnant?
Not stagnant, but no circulation. No external volume change via any method, including evaporation.
9. Does the pool have an automatic water leveler?
No
10. Are the oars in the water or out?
No oars anywhere
11. Is anyone or anything else swimming in the pool?
No
And some consideration needs to be given to the makeup of the water – salt or fresh, is the pH acidic or alkali, is the water clear, and how pure is it – relating to organic matter or mineral quantity?
Irrelevant. Assume all variables are static, except the quarter and its location.
It is also important to note how close to the equator this pool is, what day of the year this takes place, and what year the quarter was minted (taking in density vs. volume) to get a truly accurate result, but only if we needed to measure the data.
Irrelevant. Assume you are able, as the puzzle said, to measure the water level to an arbitrary degree of precision. The quarter’s density vis a vis other quarters DOES matter, but will not change the answer, which is limited to “up,” “down,” or “no change.”
Okay. This is fun. I love these little riddles.
Me too. You are actually doing OK so far. You are clearly the most technically adept person on this “porch;” I fully expect you to get it first.
First and only hint: Think Archimedes.
Jim
Jim
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By: Jim on June 22, 2010
at 11:20 AM
Here in OZ – (Kansas) the republicans are apparently unable to find a brain. We have the abortion doc killer, a wannabe representative that claims to be the author of the Arizona immigration bill, a rep that bemoans federal spending but seems to be incapable of identifying a single federal program to eliminate, etc. We don’t need any more of them.
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By: DonS on June 22, 2010
at 11:14 AM
“Here’s one for you: You are sitting in a rowboat in a swimming pool, whose water level can be measured to an arbitrary degree of precision. You take a quarter out of your pocket and throw it into the water.
Does the water level go up, down or stay the same? Support your answer.” – Jim
If it involves a swimming pool, I can answer it.
The answer could go 3 ways:
1. The level remains the same – most plausible.
2. The level rises due to water displacement by the quarter’s volume.
3. The level drops due to less weight in the boat displacing the pool’s water.
To give the correct answer, the following variables need to be established:
1. Is this performed in daylight or night?
2. What is the relative humidity and dew point?
3. Temperatures of the ambient air and water?
4. The average depth of the pool?
5. The surface area and capacity of the pool?
6. Is it an above ground pool, partially inground, or completely inground?
7. What are the pool walls constructed of?
8. Is the water circulating or stagnant?
9. Does the pool have an automatic water leveler?
10. Are the oars in the water or out?
11. Is anyone or anything else swimming in the pool?
And some consideration needs to be given to the makeup of the water – salt or fresh, is the pH acidic or alkali, is the water clear, and how pure is it – relating to organic matter or mineral quantity?
It is also important to note how close to the equator this pool is, what day of the year this takes place, and what year the quarter was minted (taking in density vs. volume) to get a truly accurate result, but only if we needed to measure the data.
Okay. This is fun. I love these little riddles.
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By: Poolman on June 22, 2010
at 9:38 AM
I donno, I gave our President the benefit of the doubt when he went with Stanley McChrystal’s strategy on the “war” in Afghanistan. I was concerned if we “pulled” out of Bush’s disasterous mess to abruptly we would have an even bigger mess to deal with. I was willing to give him some time, after all he sees the classified info every morning I don’t. HOWEVER! LOL
The time has come Mr. President… get us the hell out of there… declare “victory” and leave. Take Biden’s advice and leave small pockets of “special troops” to target operatives and get out of dodge. and FIRE Stanley’s ass.
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By: lori on June 22, 2010
at 6:27 AM
Rae –
“Hey, PFesser, you’re trying to hoodwink us”
Nobody’s trying to hoodwink anyone. The topic was raised – by someone else – about the importance of fathers’ staying involved in a child’s life, and I was reminded of a study from about fifteen years ago that related the presence of a dominant male in the house with testosterone levels in male children in the same house, and that said article drew some interesting conclusions. It’s not my article; I have no dog in that hunt.
“with a 2nd-rate study”
Indeed? What makes it second-rate? Please be specific.
“that examines the relationship of puberty to criminal behavior among non-Anglo boys.”
I believe it compared Black, Hispanic AND Anglo boys, didn’t it?
“Who doesn’t know that male puberty is a bit of a problem for the rest of us?”
Actually I found it exhilarating. What a great time of life! I am also told the Japanese don’t make a big deal of puberty and have really no problems, since they don’t expect any and don’t create a self-fulfilling prophesy. (No, I do not have a citation on that- it’s just anecdote from a family friend living in Japan)
“And where did the “missing dad” come in?”
Read the post again – this time carefully. It says that I will look to see if I kept that article when I get back to work next week. Since I am not a Behavioral Med doc, I don’t keep articles in that realm unless they are compelling.
“At least you’re not blaming us single mothers for making our boys “sissies” or turning them gay. That was the big theory a few years ago.”
Ah, I see what has your knickers in a twist now…don’t feel guilty about being a single mom – I, myself, am divorced from my children’s mother and went through all that emotional stuff myself several years ago; it ain’t fun.
Actually, the hypothesis went the other way: A male child will at puberty begin to develop adult levels of testosterone if there is no dominant male already in the house. (That would be Dad) The boy’s three million year-old brain is telling him he must now be the head of the pack, since the top dog has now gone off to another pack.
So the theory goes, unfortunately for him, HIS pack leader is now a female (Mom – she has legal authority; she gets the welfare check and has the money; she is the pack LEADER). The theory went that this kind of frustration leads almost inevitably to antisocial behavior, and that there were policy implications for a society whose policies effectively promoted single motherhood.
“Now, since you’re an MRI/CT scan guy, I have a question for you. Say you have a subdural hematoma. You have acute on subacute on chronic, SDH in fact. How could you determine whether you had — not now, but in the recent past — had a rapid increase in intracranial pressure? What would you look for?”
Nice try. Too many variables; not enough equations. Remember your high school algebra? You must have the same number of independent equations as you do variables or you cannot solve.
Aw, what the hell; I’l play: Tell you what I’ll do. I’ll give the differential parametrically.
Firstly, you have to define what you mean by chronic, subacute, acute. Volumes of blood in each event? Age of the patient? Additional comorbid conditions?
Of course, MRI cannot read pressure directly, and a rapid increase would not show any changes unless perhaps the patient were pre-eclamptic or had pseudotumor, at which point the T2-weighted images may show generalized increased signal, particularly in the white matter. There can also be an empty sella sign or reduced ventricular calibre, but these are indirect signs.
There is an article out there about using the optic nerve sheath diameter to measure ICP- which makes sense since the optic nerve is really not a nerve – it is a tract directly from the brain and has its own dural covering. In theory, at least, it should show diametric changes with raised ICP.
I don’t see the presence of prior SDH germane, unless perhaps the patient is pediatric or the raised ICP is chronic, at which point the skull will show gyral markings from the chronic pulsations. This is best seen on plain films, not MRI. Of course prior subarachnoid – not subdural generally – hemorrhages can cause raised intracranial pressure due to interference with the CSF absorption. Generally thought to act at the level of the paccionian granulations via a clogging mechanism.
Of course MRI reads ICP very indirectly; the diagnosis is best made clinically: papilledema by ophthalmoscopy, followed by a lumbar puncture, at which time the pressure is easily measured.
This is fun! Give me some more data and I’ll take you further down the diagnostic tree.
Here’s one for you: You are sitting in a rowboat in a swimming pool, whose water level can be measured to an arbitrary degree of precision. You take a quarter out of your pocket and throw it into the water.
Does the water level go up, down or stay the same? Support your answer.
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 22, 2010
at 5:41 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Langston Hughes wrote: Like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air and you.”
While we are waiting for a summer rain of humor laced with wit and wisdom from Margaret and Helen, I’m just filling up cyberspace. As jsri once said, we have plowed the religious field many, many times here on this blog. Here’s one last furrow from me – for now……
In my list the other day of brilliant thinkers, I failed to mention five of my all time favorites, Decartes, Leibnitz, Spinoza, de Chardin and the Axial Age of Jaspers. They have done much to shape my thinking and feelings.
As our sons were growing up, we had to answer plenty of questions. Like the time one seven-year old, at the dinner table in the presence of my parents, asked: “What does ‘f**k’ mean?” My husband gulped, my dad suppressed a chuckle, my mom looked at me with a grinning, ”Well, Jean, explain?” expression. I muttered something about we’ll talk about that later, after dinner. We did.
When the kids asked about different religious SYMBOLS they saw or heard about, we tried to explain to the best of our knowledge that we knew at the time. We did frown on their ridiculing any of them, even if some of them were, in our estimation, in poor taste. But those symbols have significance for the people who hold them dear and we have no cause to offend their beliefs.
There is a vast DIFFERENCE between ORGANIZED RELIGIONS that do incalculable good in their works of charity that go without fanfare most of the time and what I believe is the innate SPIRITUALITY of the individual.
I feel that religion has and does play an important role in shaping civilizations along with language and culture to makes a community cohesive. Billions and billions of people have always had and do find hope, inspiration and consolation in their faith. Human beings are social creatures. Ants build colonies. Even though most of us think of wolves as lonely, solitary animals, they do travel in packs.
What do you think of when you see the statues of Buddha, Shiva or Vishnu? Exactly what beliefs and faiths do they symbolize? What do you think of Christo Redentor atop SugarLoaf Mountain in the harbor of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil? (Touchdown Jesus?)
I remember well the first time I saw Michelangelo’s ‘David’ in Florence, Italy. I didn’t see the amygdala or the optic nerves of the brain. I didn’t see the mitral valve of the heart; I didn’t see bones or muscles. I didn’t even see the Gestalt (the whole is more than the sum of the parts) of the body. Nor did I see a nude male body as erotic. What I DID see was a MIRACLE of the beauty of a young man in the prime his life, full of strength. He was carved by a genius from a piece of the finest Carrera Marble. It is displayed in such a way that I could walk closely and completely around the statue. I could see the faint outlines of the veins in his arms and the calm gaze of the pupils in his eyes as he looked toward the future.
Another time, I stood in St. Peter’s in Rome and saw Michelangelo’s ‘Pietà’, frozen in time in Carrera marble. I did not see the Roman Catholic Church nor its history and hierarchy of men. What I did see was the overwhelming grief of a mother as she held the body of her young son in her lap after he had been tortured to death by one of the most cruel punishments mankind has ever devised. What was Jesus’ heinous crime to deserve such a fate? The tears flowed down my cheeks as I contemplated that moment.
I still choke up at the memory of that experience.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 22, 2010
at 1:14 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Rae,
I chose my ancestors very, very, very carefully.
BTW, my 20/20 vision is without glasses or contacts. I do need an occasional magnifying glass for the fine print on legal documents.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 22, 2010
at 1:03 AM
Auntie Jean,
I don’t know how you managed to be born in Boulder and escape arrest, but I’d say it’s time you undertook the challenge and got yourself thrown in the clink for causing some kind of trouble.
So what are your health secrets? Tell us all how to be sharp as tacks at 80.
Rae
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By: Rae on June 21, 2010
at 10:00 PM
Hey, PFesser, you’re trying to hoodwink us with a 2nd-rate study that examines the relationship of puberty to criminal behavior among non-Anglo boys. Who doesn’t know that male puberty is a bit of a problem for the rest of us? And where did the “missing dad” come in? At least you’re not blaming us single mothers for making our boys “sissies” or turning them gay. That was the big theory a few years ago.
I want to apologize for giving you so much trouble — you generally have great ideas and provide lots of info. Just can’t resist the temptation to poke at you a bit.
Now, since you’re an MRI/CT scan guy, I have a question for you. Say you have a subdural hematoma. You have acute on subacute on chronic, SDH in fact. How could you determine whether you had — not now, but in the recent past — had a rapid increase in intracranial pressure? What would you look for?
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By: Rae on June 21, 2010
at 9:53 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Voluntarily for the record, I was born female, September 19, 1929 in Boulder, Colorado, United States of America, Planet Earth. I can produce a certified birth certificate, valid passport and valid driver’s license to any duly authoritized persons or birther types who can legally provide just cause to request it/them. (My birth certificate states that I was legitimate at the time of my birth.)
I have 20/20 vision, certified by my Board Certified Opthomologist to present to the DMV when I applied for my last driver’s license; required renewal every two years by the State of Hawaii for persons over the age of 70.
As of 3 1/2 months ago, according to my Board Certified Internist doctor, I have the blood chemistry of a 16 year old.
My blood type is A+.
I have never been arrested.
Any other personal questions are none of your damn business.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 21, 2010
at 9:45 PM
fiona said:
“No one got “spanked” except in your fantasy life. I hate to disappoint you, Jimmy, but I like men.”
No fantasy involved. I was referring to the spanking I gave you May 24 at 8:48.
If you don’t remember it, I’ll give you a leg up:
You claimed that illegal aliens coming from Canada constituted a threat equivalent to that of those from Mexico, and I used that very article you cited to show a 40:1 ratio of illegals from Mexico vs Canada.
After that, you grew very quiet…standing in the corner tends to make one a bit reflective, eh?
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 21, 2010
at 8:48 PM
Here’s an article relating early sexual maturation, testosterone levels and delinquency among Anglo, Hispanic, and Black American boys:
http://jar.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/4/364
I probably have the original article correlating absentee fathers and early maturation at my office; I’m off this week; I’ll look for it when I get a chance.
It’s a very interesting hypothesis. It could certainly explain the, “We have more young men in jail than we do in college” lament, but of course, association does not mean causation. Statistical associations are only generally considered “valid” with a p < 0.05 in most peer-reviewed studies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value
So I'll have to take a look at the statistics before I cast my blessings on the conclusions. I'm generally pretty sceptical of "socially important" studies.
along another line, while I'm thinking of it:
Jean –
Forgive me, but how old did you say you were? I must say, you write very well! I look at CAT scans and MRIs of elderly folks every day, and the brain atrophy after seventy is quite prominent – usually associated with a concomitant decline in mental acuity, but you seem sharp as a razor. Are you sure you are on the far side of seventy? You wouldn't be putting us on – say, just a little, would you?
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 21, 2010
at 8:29 PM
Auntie Jean, on June 21, 2010 at 1:12 PM, you rocked! No wallflower here!
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By: Easier on June 21, 2010
at 7:37 PM
Pfesser Jim wrote: heheee….Still smarting after that spanking I gave you on that last round, are we?
Just one stripe for your ample bottom today, I guess, since your post was so short you were only able to make one mistake.
—–
No one got “spanked” except in your fantasy life. I hate to disappoint you, Jimmy, but I like men.
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By: fiona64 on June 21, 2010
at 5:56 PM
One study doesn’t necessarily mean anything, now if it can be repeated in other cultural groups, including small scale societies, and the results replicated then I believe the scientific community would take notice. You can fake the data all you want, but you will be found out eventually.
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By: no one's puppet on June 21, 2010
at 5:50 PM
Statistics, surveys, and polls exist due to our inherent need to compare ourselves and actions to norms. These norms were determined by polls, surveys, and statistics. It is really circular logic that the masses bite into. Mostly they exist as a means of influencing and controlling people, something marketers have become quite adept at over the years. And speaking of a great marketing campaign that has been extremely influential in aiding capitalism over the past half century…
Famed two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient US Brigadier General Smedley D. Butler accurately summed up the situation when he said: “I spent 33 years in the Marines, most of my time being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for Capitalism…. The general public shoulders the bill. This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones, Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.”
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By: Poolman on June 21, 2010
at 5:47 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Chrystal and Rae,
Rae, thanks for backing up my statistical ramblings with your experience. I think you are quite congenial!
Chrystal, nice to hear from you. Come back often. I’ll get back to you about our adventures in Hana and also with an update on the Nurses’ Beach on Kauai that you will like. They have carved out a new trail down the Pali (cliff) that is not so treacherous as the old one. Even Old Timers like us can hobble down it.
SoCal is pretty special too I think. We lived there for over ten years, but some of them back in the Medieval Times of Reagan.
Later.
Ho’oponopono! Working things out, resolving conflict, talking, listening, forgiving.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 21, 2010
at 5:33 PM
From what little I know and took in college, Cannot statistics be made to come out which ever way you want it to?
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By: Chrystal on June 21, 2010
at 4:32 PM
Hi, Gang.
I don’t purport to be congenial, because I have a low tolerance for nonsense, but I do have an open mind. In my family we say “facts trump bullshit,” and that’s pretty much how I operate.
Like, Auntie Jean, I have concerns about the study cited (sort of) by PFesser. I spent a number of years doing social science research, and worked some years also as a statistician analyzing research data. Here’s the thing — social science is macro level science. You’re observing trends that result from many underlying causes. That’s why social scientists replicate in all kinds of situations, to figure out, in a slow, painstaking way, what’s really going on. It is the height of folly to draw the broad conclusions PFesser does from a study such as this one.
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By: Rae on June 21, 2010
at 1:37 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Our surname is a pretty simple two syllable name. Easy to spell and pronounce. Yet, you would be surprised how ofen it is woefully mispelled and mangled when spoken.
My husband has always said, “Doesn’t matter – as long as it is spelled right on the paychecks.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 21, 2010
at 1:22 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
We get most of our current national and international news from the PBS News Hour with Jim Leherer and of course our local news stations. We also read two newspapers and various periodicals and magazines. We don’t subscribe to the Weekly Standard and certainly don’t watch Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck or that sort of has-been, O’Rielly or whatever his name is. We occasionally see clips of Limbaugh and Beck on CNN so we do get a fair amount of insight into conservative thinking. PBS and CNN both have some thoughtful professional conservative analysts and commentators. And then of course there are those who come here to M&H.
I would like to weigh in on the Science vs. Religion debate raging on here. I think it was Pfesser53/Jim/Dad on June 20, 2010 who cited some study about testosterone levels in boys and young men without fathers in the home.
See Pfesser53/Jim/Dad June 20 at 12:37PM “It seems that the presence of a dominant male suppresses the younger male’s levels. When he is absent, the oldest male child will begin to elevate his testosterone; the implications for crime, violence, etc in a young man with juice, no maturity, and a woman (mom) calling his shots is pretty obvious. The conclusion – ESPECIALLY FOR BLACK FAMILIES, who have the highest levels of absent fathers – was pretty clear: if you want to keep your boys out of jail, keep it in your pants and stay with your spouse.” (The all capitals are mine – Jean.)
Where is the data? That was the most pitiful defense as an example of a scientific study I think I have ever heard. First of all, who measured the testosterone, in what ages of boys/men (or maybe rats?) and for how long? A team of endocrinologists along with social scientists such as psychologists and sociologists along with statisticians? Conclusion by a consensus of experts? And who determined the qualifications of the experts? Somebody has to decide who the experts are! What was the original hypothesis (theory) on how to go about tackling a complex problem, (mess)? How do you define what the problem is in the first place? What were they seeking to prove? How about men of other races or ethnic groups who skip out on their responsibilities, are dirty rotten scoundrels and/or are drunkards or abusive to their wives and children but stay in the home? What of war widows raising their children alone? Who was paying for the study? Those are only a very few of the criteria of variables that go into a legitimate scientific study. Without those, the bias of the hypothesis is skewed so completely off the margin of error as to falls into the categories of Monumental Type Three Errors, (unintentional) or Monumental Type Four Errors, (intentional.)
So whatever the results of that study were, they are so far off the Reliability and Validity Scales as to be right up there with wetting your finger in your mouth and holding it out the window to see if or which way the wind is blowing. (My God! It’s hurricane season and a hurricane is coming!)
Further, Pfesser53/Jim on June 20,2010 at 4:39PM noted for no purpose in the context that I could see that Einstein was “Jewish, not christian.” I believe it is time for me to “Scroll, Baby, Scroll!” right on by this contributor. This Old Broad has run outta patience with him.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 21, 2010
at 1:12 PM
Jean,
Ive been reading along for the past couple of weeks and noticed that you live in Hawaii. My best and worst memories are of when my parents took me to Maui and the other islands, Kauai,Lanai,Oahu and the Big Island.
I guess the worst part was this endless Maui day trip to the “seven sacred falls”,which were slippery as could be. It wasn’t the falls so bad, as it was the road over and back, mostly one lane and the trip took forever.
I was trying to remember. Is the ‘nurses beach on Kauai? That was the best beach for swimming.
Keep writing. Love the stories about Hawaii. One of these days I hope to relocate there. For now
Southern California will do. Your so funny about letting the husband sleep. Mine was just glued to the World Cup and baseball all day so that was his reward.
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By: Chrystal on June 21, 2010
at 9:10 AM
Speaking of the Bible or even Biblical, here is another chapter from the BP Bible: Tony Hayward taking a day off as BP front man on the Gulf disaster on his yacht in a race in the non-oily water off his home country.
I can understand that folks may have some disagreements about the people who wrote parts of the Bible (Isiah – male or female?), but at least these writers weren’t brain dead!
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 21, 2010
at 8:41 AM
Good morning all! Greytdog, your post had me going on a google search. I found this interesting bit of information that expands on what I already was only slightly aware of:
God’s Real name is the same for all people everywhere.
Nothing against Bob, Herschel, or Mary. I’m sure there are those named that receive praise and worship. Nothing against all the other gods roaming the earth and the heavens. I’m sure some have done things worthy of recognition. But the big dog’s revealed name is more than the sum of its parts. I’m sure however, that nicknames are acceptable between buds.
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By: Poolman on June 21, 2010
at 8:32 AM
All this capitalization conversation makes me think of a few years back when I walked into my daughters’ 10 grade chemistry class and saw a sign that read “dis b da rulzs” followed by 10 “rulzs” the teacher insisted on her students following. When it was my turn to met my daughter’s teacher I commented on the sign, her reply was “Mzz. as long as they follow them does it matter how their spelled?”….
For me the answer was no.. 😉
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By: lori on June 21, 2010
at 7:08 AM
Wonder if God is really God’s name or did humans just not like his real name and decided ‘God” seemed more. . . deity-ish. Would the world get up in arms if God was called Herschel or Bob . . .could you imagine evangelizing & trying to convince people to turn to ‘Bob’ or ‘Herschel’? I don’t think it matters if god is God, or Bob, or Herschel or even Mary. I don’t think it really matters, in the grand scheme of things, if the G in god is capitalized or not. . .it’s what we do in that name of God that determines if your god is worth my leaving my god to worship yours. . .and right now, me and my god, we’re hanging tight.
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By: Greytdog on June 21, 2010
at 6:48 AM
“Intelligent atheists will still capitalize Bible when refering to the specific Christian Bible. It’s an issue of grammar, not commitment to the cause. On a side note, “biblical” is not capitalized.
The only reason you see the Bible not capitalized is because of ignorance. The Koran, the Bagavadgita, the Tanak (and Torah) are capitalized as well. They are all proper nouns.”
__________________
http://www.preferredword.com
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By: no one's puppet on June 20, 2010
at 11:56 PM
o0h my god ypu are brilliant.. i get to this web site by an accident and i love that… you are great and i wish the world have more people like U…
😀
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By: itzia on June 20, 2010
at 11:43 PM
But you would capitalize the title of a Danielle Steel novel? The Bible is a title of a book and should therefore be capitalized. It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with your religious views or opinions.
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By: no one's puppet on June 20, 2010
at 11:43 PM
One of my facebook friends had posted this and I thought I would share, since the topic had been breached and Helen hasn’t given us any new tidbits to discuss. Atheists are okay – we’re all born that way. I believe the organized Christian church has been its own worst enemy over the centuries. Some factions can be as oppressive to society as the Taliban. Many people claiming to be Christian have misrepresented Jesus to the world, claiming to speak for Him or act in His name. Yet their actions do not reflect Him or His character and so are false.
no one’s puppet, I choose not to capitalize “the Bible” often. It is intentional, too. Many have made it to be their god. I dislike the limits it puts on Him. So many versions. What to leave in? What to leave out? I don’t recall Jesus referring to it as such, but rather the “writings” or “scriptures” – “For it is written…” Of course, that is what is written that He said, so we always get that human potential fudge factor involved. I prefer the first hand communications myself.
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By: Poolman on June 20, 2010
at 10:08 PM
It isn’t a matter of preference, rather to capitalize or not, I myself am a diehard agnostic, it is academic. Considering the number of people who have died in the name of religion, God can hardly be considered inconsequential (note: all three religions worship the God of the Book, although they interpret him and his nature through their own culture, history, etc; as in, if you were to invent a God, on who would base his nature, why yourself of course). My favorite god is Loki since he seems to reside at my house.
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By: no one's puppet on June 20, 2010
at 8:30 PM
“Gawd people, Bible is alway capitalized; Torah, capitalized; Quran or Koran, capitalized; it is academic folks. God as in the monotheistic God of the Bible, Torah, Koran, is always capitalized. When referring to a god or goddess of one of the many pantheons of gods, the word god is not capitalized, but their given name is, thus one could write the god, Zeus, said. Or the Lord, thy God….”
I know. English is my favorite subject.
It’s a form of protest. Kind of like “ReBiblicans” or “Repuglicans” or “Queen Esther.”
I consider monotheistic gods pretty inconsequential, so I don’t cap. them. The Greek gods are my favorites; I even named my dog Demophoon. My wife called him “Indiana.”
The coyotes ate him. I guess he wasn’t in the fire long enough.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 20, 2010
at 7:11 PM
Thanks, PFesser53, for your attempts at intellectual clarity and honesty.
For you religious folks out there, I have no quarrel with the “mystical experience,” and even see the utility of organized religion. I told my brother when my kids were small — “I have to teach them values, and values are best taught with stories. Why not values as taught in a Lutheran Church? When they reach the age of reason, they’ll figure out they need to discard the dogma.” It worked out just fine. If I had been in a Muslim country, I’d have gone that route. Of course I had to tune the stories a little, getting rid of the prejudice (all religions enforce a class system, of course).
Isn’t it odd that we just happen to have the “right” religion here in our home country? That we know the “right” way to eat (left hand is just fine, thank you)? That we know the “right” way to read — left to right, top to bottom? How fortunate for us to have been born in the country that has everything right. And how unfortunate for all of the people born in other countries and taught the wrong ways. We’ll just have to share the truth with them.
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By: Rae on June 20, 2010
at 6:29 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I posted my above comment while my husband was taking a nap. I’ve been pampering the daylights out of him on Father’s Day even if it kills me!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 20, 2010
at 5:38 PM
Gawd people, Bible is alway capitalized; Torah, capitalized; Quran or Koran, capitalized; it is academic folks. God as in the monotheistic God of the Bible, Torah, Koran, is always capitalized. When referring to a god or goddess of one of the many pantheons of gods, the word god is not capitalized, but their given name is, thus one could write the god, Zeus, said. Or the Lord, thy God….
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By: no one's puppet on June 20, 2010
at 5:30 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Steve Mirsky has a feature article in every issue of “Scientific American” Magazine. In the May 2010 issue he posed the question, what if everyone had always been on Twitter at the same time?
“All over the world millions of people are posting their 140-or-fewer-character tweets online via Twitter. He wondered what it might have been like if Twitter, and all its users, had been around for, oh, the past few thousand year.”
Here are a few excerpts from the column:
“PythyinGreece Had amazing insights into right triangles. Add squares of sides=squares of hypo. Could be useful.
Euclidmenot Working on something (book series called Elements) to drive 10th graders nuts 4 thousands of years. Conic section alone will make them cry.
Aristophanesridiculous@Euclidmenot Conic section? I thought you said COMIC section. HaHa. I still got it. Hey, frogs are funny, yes?
Galiheyo You know what moves when they show you the torture instruments? Your colon. I’m gonna be ixnay on the eetstway for a ilewhay.
AppleNewton@Libnits You made that up? You couldn’t make up a bed-time-story for a 2-yr-old. Making a kid, BTW, sounds disgusting.
Libnits@Applenewt Keep sitting under trees, maybe something big will fall on you next time.
HairyAlbert@ Applenewt Pick on somebody your own size. Btw, your gravity’s wrong. Just a teeny bit most of the time, but hey. @Euclidmenot You too.
Euclidmenot@HairyAlbert Prove it.
PythyinGreece @OzAscarcrow So very wrong, but congrats on the degree. At least you’re falling upward.
Curieous Went through thousands of pounds of pitchblende to get a speck of radium. I hate pitchblende.
InAHuff It snowed in DC, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no global warning. I rest my case.
Beefranklin@InaHuff I risked my life in electrical storms for guys like you?
InAHuff@Big stick99 But the hockey stick is broken!
SJGould I’m supposed to say something in 14 characters? That’s ludicrous. It’s beyond ridiculous. In fact, it’s impossible. What idio”
Oops! I overshot my self-imposed limit of 25 KB or less here at M&H.
Sorry.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 20, 2010
at 5:15 PM
Poolman –
On Einstein’s religiosity:
Firstly, Einstein was Jewish, not christian. Having said that, here is his take on the common misquote about “god does not play dice.” (vis a vis his misgivings about quantum mechanics)
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
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By: PFesser53 on June 20, 2010
at 4:39 PM
I just love this internet thingy. Much like space exploration and telephones, you combine faith and fact and it is powerful!
“Does everything have a natural cause?
Atheists believe that all cause and effect in the universe has a naturalistic origin. Observational data lead us to the conclusion that the universe first began to exist 13.7 billion years ago. Since all things that begin to exist must have a cause, this means that the universe has a cause. However, a naturalistic cause for the origin of the universe cannot be confirmed observationally. Therefore, atheists believe the tenet that all phenomena have a naturalistic cause based solely upon faith in naturalism.”
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By: Poolman on June 20, 2010
at 2:51 PM
@Craig, I see you have learned your history, geography, and anthropology from the popular press. Let’s see — they stone women in Muslim countries. And if I were sitting in a Muslim country right now, I would be reading about men shooting their wives and children in fast food establishments in the US. Propaganda — it’s a powerful thing. It causes us to line our little insignificant selves up to further the — EMPIRE. Say no to being a pawn.
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By: Rae on June 20, 2010
at 2:51 PM
PFesser53 on June 20, 2010 at 1:13 PM
Many years ago I taught an intro Bio course at a state university and covered Darwin, Evolution and an introduction to Mendelian genetics as part of the course. This was during the 1960’s when there were still unanswered questions as to what the Watson-Crick model was all about. Lectures were in a 400 seat amphitheater and one female student seemed to spend most of the time during the evolution discussions scowling at me from her seat in the third row.
After one lecture a separate student cornered me and pointed out that the scowling female was recording my lectures. I wasn’t sure what I should be concerned about because many students were beginning to bring recorders to class and they were pretty common. They were about the size of a paving brick and could be picked up at Radio Shack
I also had a job as an Assistant to the Dean of the college and one day about a week later, the Dean’s secretary came into my office smiling and saying that the Dean wanted me to deal with a phone call. Before I could introduce myself, the lady on the other end of the line started berating the University for hiring “. . . a Commie pinko atheist who was poisoning the minds of innocent students”
Before I could say anything I heard her pop a button on a tape recorder and then heard my recent lecture about Darwin, coming out of the phone. I asked her for her name and address and told her I would look into it. End of conversation. Exit laughing.
After the next class meeting I stopped the scowling female, told her I had heard from her mother and then asked her what she thought I should do about it. Instead of answering me she mumbled that she had another class to go to and that was the last time I ever saw her in class or even at the university.
It has been my experience over the years that Darwin vs Genesis arguments are fruitless so I never weigh in on them. I’ve seen or heard this discussion too many times and have yet to see a real conversion one way or the other.
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By: jsri on June 20, 2010
at 2:38 PM
Happy Father’s Day, gentlemen.
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By: Greytdog on June 20, 2010
at 2:09 PM
Happy Father’s Day to all the men on this porch!
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By: Easier on June 20, 2010
at 1:46 PM
“The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms – this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.”
( Albert Einstein – The Merging of Spirit and Science)
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By: Poolman on June 20, 2010
at 1:29 PM
Jim, my thoughts? I support the President’s Fatherhood and Mentoring Initiative.
Please don’t go to any bother looking for your article.
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By: lori on June 20, 2010
at 1:29 PM
“Pfesser, science, along with religion, has “evolved” in this world we all are part of. Today’s science looks completely different from its origins. Today’s scientists have done much to discredit the “science” of the past.”
Not so. Laws of physics, light, motion which were carefully teased out – still hold. There may be improvement or refinement – for example, Newton’s laws must be refined for near-light speeds – but still hold in the venue they were discovered. Darwin’s work is continually improved and refined, but the basic tenets have only been made stronger with every new discovery.
But even if things DO change, that’s the beauty of science. It seeks only the truth and is agnostic about what that truth turns out to be. If a theory is wrong, fine. So be it. Honesty: that’s its real power.
“Example is the climate change debate. They can all perform the same tests and do the same research and come up with vastly different results.”
Sure – every interpretation involves some degree of uncertainty. And it looks like some of the “climate change” scientists lost their objectivity and became interested in WHAT the results were – and thus beginneth the slippery slope to perdition. But that is a human failure, not a failure of the method.
“Kind of involves that unknown and unmeasurable element – faith. Put that in your test tube or on your microscope slide and define it.”
If as a scientist you are depending on faith – of any kind – you need to find another line of work. See “slippery slope to perdition,” above.
“Until you realize that we are also spirit, spiritual truths won’t do anything for you. Spirits are not subjected to same natural laws that our flesh is. “Dust to dust”, you know, our bodies go back into the earth. Of course that is in the bible too, but science (todays version) confirms it.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I know not all are able to hear and believe. But I am still led to point these things out to others. Some will have ears to hear.”
I really apologise for all the snipping; I’m trying to shorten everything without losing meaning.
It might surprise you that I find many things in the bible to be insightful and very beautiful. Among my many other faults, I like to do a little amateur philosophy, and I enjoy the prose as well as some of the ideas. I do not, however, take it to be literal truth.
“I know the link you provided to your anesthesiologist/pilot friend that crashed recorded his strong spiritual beliefs.”
I didn’t know him, but he seemed to have been a helluva guy.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 20, 2010
at 1:13 PM
Jim, Actually I wasn’t familiar with the deathbed conversion story, but that was interesting. I do not think, as you seem to infer, that Darwin’s THEORIES conflict with my God’s existence. I also do not see where he refutes the existence of that same entity in any of his works. I mean, even in his extensively detailed will he seems to acknowledge His authority, “…And hereby revoking all my former wills and other testamentary dispositions I declare this only to be my last will and testament. In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand this twenty seventh day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and eighty one [21 September 1881] — Charles Robert Darwin — Signed by the testator Charles Robert Darwin as and for his last will and testament in the presence at the same time and at his request in his presence and in the presence of each other we have hereunto subscribed our names as witnesses — George Morris Clerk to Mr Bacon 18 Fenchurch Street London — William Jackson Butler to Charles Robert Darwin Esqr of Down Kent. Proved at London 4th June 1882 by the hands of William Erasmus Darwin and George Howard Darwin Esquire the Sons the Executors to whom Admon was granted.”
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By: Poolman on June 20, 2010
at 1:01 PM
lori –
Despite the ‘seventies-era “me-me-me” stuff, my experience has been that children of families whose parents stay together grow up on the whole to be happier and more well-balanced.
I remember an article several years ago about male children’s testosterone levels in families with an adult male in the house vs. none. It seems that the presence of a dominant male suppresses the younger male’s levels. When he is absent, the oldest male child will begin to elevate his testosterone; the implications for crime, violence, etc in a young man with juice, no maturity, and a woman (mom) calling his shots is pretty obvious. The conclusion – especially for black families, who have the highest levels of absent fathers – was pretty clear: if you want to keep your boys out of jail, keep it in your pants and stay with your spouse.
Thoughts? I’ll look for the article.
Dad
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By: PFesser53 on June 20, 2010
at 12:37 PM
Here we go:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/03/31/darwins-deathbed-conversion-legend
I think this is a fairly thoughtful and balanced look at the so-called Darwin deathbed conversion and recantation of evolution.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 20, 2010
at 12:25 PM
For those of you who didn’t see this… I love our President! Happy father’s day all..
Good afternoon,
As the father of two young daughters, I know that being a father is one of the most important jobs any man can have.
My own father left my family when I was two years old. I was raised by a heroic mother and wonderful grandparents who provided the support, discipline and love that helped me get to where I am today, but I still felt the weight of that absence throughout my childhood. It’s something that leaves a hole no government can fill. Studies show that children who grow up without their fathers around are more likely to drop out of high school, go to jail, or become teen fathers themselves.
And while no government program can fill the role that fathers play for our children, what we can do is try to support fathers who are willing to step up and fulfill their responsibilities as parents, partners and providers. That’s why last year I started a nationwide dialogue on fatherhood to tackle the challenge of father absence head on.
In Chicago, the Department of Health and Human Services held a forum with community leaders, fatherhood experts and everyday dads to discuss the importance of responsible fatherhood support programs. In New Hampshire, Secretary of Education Duncan explored the linkages between father absence and educational attainment in children. In Atlanta, Attorney General Holder spoke with fathers in the criminal justice system about ways local reentry organizations, domestic violence groups and fatherhood programs can join together to support ex-offenders and incarcerated individuals who want to be closer to their families and children.
Now we’re taking this to the next level. Tomorrow, I’ll make an announcement about the next phase of our efforts to help fathers fulfill their responsibilities as parents — The President’s Fatherhood and Mentoring Initiative. You can learn more at http://www.fatherhood.gov.
This Father’s Day — I’m thankful for the opportunity to be a dad to two wonderful daughters. And I’m thankful for all the wonderful fathers, grandfathers, uncles, brothers and friends who are doing their best to make a difference in the lives of a child.
Happy Father’s Day.
Sincerely,
President Barack Obama
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By: lori on June 20, 2010
at 12:24 PM
Those damn laws of physics just keep rearing their ugly heads. Only continues to prove we accept the facts only when we want to. Otherwise we go on faith. Now when facts and faith line up – that’s powerful.
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By: Poolman on June 20, 2010
at 11:21 AM
Good Morning fellow porch dwellers.
Happy Sunday!
Happy Father’s Day, to all the dads out there.
God Bless you all, I pray.
We are a diverse group, that is for sure.
Pfesser, science, along with religion, has “evolved” in this world we all are part of. Today’s science looks completely different from its origins. Today’s scientists have done much to discredit the “science” of the past. Much like religion, it is all based on mankind’s interpretation of his environment and circumstance. Just as all people that subscribe to a religious belief don’t agree, all scientists are not in agreement in their interpretation of things. And that from observing data and “facts”.
It isn’t as clear cut as you would like to make it appear. Example is the climate change debate. They can all perform the same tests and do the same research and come up with vastly different results. Some claim we are gonna cook. Others claim the ice age is just around the corner. I mean that’s heaven and hell, right? Who you gonna believe? Why? Kind of involves that unknown and unmeasurable element – faith. Put that in your test tube or on your microscope slide and define it.
I quote scripture to give you the perspective from whom (God) we (believers) believe sees us and into our circumstances. You assumed it is all from the bible, yet I do not merely read or quote that book. And there are so many interpretations of that one. I am well aware of man’s manipulation of the truth and the cannonized bible is definitely one of those. Scripture, however, is found in many sources. Auntie Jean has listed many that hold truths. No matter where it is found, truth is universal. Much the same as the natural laws are. And no matter what man is involved in, he will manipulate the situation to his advantage. What motivates him to do that?
Until you realize that we are also spirit, spiritual truths won’t do anything for you. Spirits are not subjected to same natural laws that our flesh is. “Dust to dust”, you know, our bodies go back into the earth. Of course that is in the bible too, but science (todays version) confirms it. And please don’t tell me you believe in karma, cause how can you ‘splain that with science? But I digress.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I know not all are able to hear and believe. But I am still led to point these things out to others. Some will have ears to hear. I know the link you provided to your anesthesiologist/pilot friend that crashed recorded his strong spiritual beliefs. I feel you have had these “religious” discussions often among your peers and have solidified your position. Seems quite cemented. And that’s okay. I know my God can use a jackhammer when He wishes. He’s really got a huge tool kit to work with.
At this point in America, we each still are able to practice our own forms of religion. You can devote worship to an airplane or whatever you love in life, as you wish. Others can worship at the altars of their choice. “For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” – some “truth” from a book of “fables”.
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By: Poolman on June 20, 2010
at 10:42 AM
Thank you Juneau Joe
I have forwarded the link to many others
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By: Daily Reader on June 20, 2010
at 10:11 AM
Juneau Joe: thanks for the link. You’re darn right, that’s powerful.
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By: Donna on June 20, 2010
at 8:30 AM
Well I for one have had an experience with an
unknown flying aircraft along with three witnesses in 1967 near a SAC base in Texas. So as for gravity.
Someone has had it worked out long before we did.
And I don’t think it was Darwin or God in the aircraft,
maybe one of his engineers though.
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By: Craig on June 20, 2010
at 8:06 AM
“PFesser53, I can see you have spent much time convincing yourself there is nothing supernatural existing in this same space we inhabit. That leaves you vulnerable to manipulation by such.”
Uh, no. I look at evidence – if it makes sense, fine. If not, it is discarded. No quarter asked, none given.
You?
“Even your buddy Darwin vascillated in his beliefs.”
Also no. He did not. That is a persistent fable of those whose ox his brilliant work has gored, but it is not true.
“I can see that we could spend much time and space debating the truth, and though I have the desire, unfortunately not the time. Science, however is fast proving my point.”
Sorry – nice try. Science in no way even tries to prove or disprove the existence of gods. That is beyond the purview of science by definition, since it is not testable. Either you are superstitious or you are not. You believe in magic or you do not, but to do so does not require logic – only “faith” – or what I like to call, “credulity”. Magic is by definition, well, magic. There is no direct connection from the incantation to the result. A word is said, and something happens. (Well, actually it doesn’t, but that wasn’t the point.)
“Most folks are not well-versed in scripture or what knowledge it holds, as you claim:
Here’s a few claims (speech) from scripture:”
Sorry – a book of Jewish fables is not authoritative. It’s a waste of time to debate them.
(Fables deleted.)
C’mon, poolman. Stop it. Quoting scripture, as I have said, is laughing at your own jokes. Besides, it is logically fallacious – (I believe the bible is true because I know it wouldn’t lie and because it wouldn’t lie I believe it.) To be authoritative, there must be some outside verification, and of course there is none. It self references. (Sort of reminds me of the circular sunshine arse-blowing on some blogs)
You’re a smart man. Bring something to the table besides quotes from one patched-together book. Where is your evidence? Where is something that is testable? You claim to be technologically advanced, with your CAD experience and all. Surely you know about the scientific method. Tighten up your thought processes, and we can talk.
While I’m thinking of it, take some time and research the origin of the bible. My wife has a degree in history and medieval studies and we discuss this pretty often. It’s pretty interesting, actually. Certain books were included, some excluded if they didn’t promote jesus as supernatural (That wasn’t originally the case, you know.) Books that consolidated the church’s power were included, those that weakened it were not. Edit, edit, edit….hmmm…..methinks christians are very much duped by this little book. It’s a way to get people to give up their autonomy and concentrate power in the church.
The Internet will take care of that, though. When the big publishing and broadcast companies had all the power of persuasion – bought with tax-free money I might add – the bad-hair boys on TV had a field day. But the Internet is bringing this little biblical playhouse down, as that free (free as in beer and free as in speech) forum shines a very bright light on these little cockroaches. Good stuff. Man’s liberty is soon upon him. I’ll give it about fifty years and religion will be just a vestige of a sad past.
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By: PFesser53 on June 20, 2010
at 7:57 AM
Want to see something to make your blood boil?
http://www.collateralmurder.com/
Remember, this is happening every day over there.
This is the video that wikileaks released, and has the Obama admin pooing its shorts.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 20, 2010
at 7:17 AM
via The Mudflats
Dear Sarah,
a video – very powerful
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By: JuneauJoe on June 20, 2010
at 6:56 AM
“Summertime and the livin is easy”.. ……. 😉
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By: lori on June 20, 2010
at 6:23 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Poolman,
Poolman, I have always like very much your feelings about the Christian religion. I think it is perfectly legitimate to quote references from the scriptures of the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, Avesta, Buddha, Vedic and Confucian writings, Wikipedia, Shakespeare, Richard Dawkins, Odin, Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary, Charles Darwin, Jupiter, Voltaire, William of Occam (Ockham), Zeus, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. And lets don’t forget Sigmund Freud, Karl (Carl) Jung, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking. All brilliant thinkers. Did I leave anyone out? See how smart I am? I am a veritable walking encyclopedia! I almost forgot Egypt’s Osiris and Isis, a husband and wife team of deities. Or maybe just plain old Ra.
This is my own interpretation from all of the above:
There are three kinds of love: Agapé, from the Greek word meaning love. Agapé is the deity’s altruistic love for humanity that is reflected in our love and caring for our fellow human beings. Familial Love is the love we have for members of our family; mother, father, spouse and children. Sexual Love is the physical expression of love between Adults.
The ideal of Mature Love is to have all three. Sexual Love may wax and wane over time. Agapé and Familial Love sustain the connection of Sexual Love when absence or illness of the beloved prevents consummation. Thus, Making Love is infinitely more mutually satisfying than just having sex and reproduction.
I forgot to mention Pogo who said, “We have met the enemy and he is us.” What say we declare a truce on the religious and philosophical wars for one day, Father’s Day, and remember to express our love for good ole dad. We can pick up the battles again on Monday morning.
Aloha. Peace. Shalom. Nameste.
Auntie Jean
P. S. For anyone interested, you might want to You Tube this selection from George Gershwin’s opera, “Porgy and Bess”, “It Ain’t Necessarily So”. There are a bunch of choices, but my favorite is the classic with Lawrence Tibbett because you can pick up the lyrics best there. Also Cedric Cannon’s rendition is superb!
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 20, 2010
at 1:01 AM
PFesser53, I think some atheists missed your point.
I was 15, and wrote an essay (we had to turn in an essay a week in my public school). I chose to write something about God (capitalized then), scripture, blah, blah. I let my boyfriend read it, hoping to impress him with my superior religiosity. He read it, looked at me, and said “well, I guess maybe you haven’t had much experience writing …” And then it hit me. I was spouting nonsense. Gobbledy-gook. As William James once said (I paraphrase), “We have unquestionably a great cloud-bank of ancestral blindness weighing down upon us, only transiently riven here and there by fitful revelations of the truth. ” That truth hit me like a ton of bricks.
For anyone who believes in “intelligent design” I have a great article on “intelligent falling,” which refutes the scientific theory of gravity.
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By: Rae on June 19, 2010
at 5:34 PM
Poolman, God bless you for having the patience of Job. You’re a great teacher.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 19, 2010
at 5:01 PM
Where does love originate and how do you measure its size or power?
“It evolved as a means of getting sexual reproduction, which itself – although very risky – confers a tremendous survival advantage via random mixing of genetic material. It’s not amenable to measure, unless you want to count children produced or murders caused by infidelity. See Darwin, Charles.” – Jim
Me thinks you are gravely mistaken. Love has absolutely nothing to do with sex. Hormones and libido – yes. Love – not so much. However, you express the same “knowledge” regarding its meaning as the general public does. We have been intentionally polluted to its true meaning and been taught to equate love with sex, primarily through the mass media.
My God interprets love this way:
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.” (1 Corinthians 13:4-7)
“Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13)
And, of course we have the wisdom of the Beatles who declared, “All You Need Is Love.”
Love requires an action, the least of which is service or worship. That kind of goes against the survival of the fittest model and man’s naturally selfish nature.
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By: Poolman on June 19, 2010
at 4:47 PM
PFesser, intelligent design is the only explanation for the natural laws in our universe. How were these established otherwise? And if evolution aside from intelligent design were true, don’t you think we would have evolved to be much better by now? At least improved from where we were hundreds of years ago? This “evolving” planet sure has suffered due to our “evolved” status. What’s with that? Have our physical, psychological, emotional, or societal characteristics improved and strengthened us as evolution dictates? Or has human evolution peaked and we are on a downward spiral? If we are on the road to perfection, the roadmap would show a continual progress toward that goal. Hmmmm. I must be looking at the wrong evidence. Please point me in the right direction.
“The claim that it was all done by magic, through the agency of an invisible wizard without a doubt falls under the “extraordinary claims” category and must be backed up with data. I see none.” – Jim
Well I don’t mention magic, but a spiritual realm. The fact that there are forces existing that we cannot see is admitted by believers and non-believers alike. The fact that you only believe in those you have experienced does not make the others any less valid. Like gravity – one you mention and apparently believe in – we only see the result of that force, not the force itself. How do you explain gravity in the scheme of things? Has it always been and will it always be? The scriptures say God set it up that way. Show me otherwise.
When you dial a phone number and someone on the other end picks up, how can you have the faith to know you are talking to whom you believe? How do you know it is really who you think, if you can’t see or touch them? Could that be the same magic you speak of? Is it just a matter of interpretation?
Really Jim, I still think you have much more ‘splainin’ to do than I.
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By: Poolman on June 19, 2010
at 3:04 PM
I knew that knew wasn’t the correct spelling so I knew I would have to put up new post to correct the spelling and make it all right. So, new. Not knew.
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By: vgman on June 19, 2010
at 2:46 PM
See–
that’s what I love about this place!
I’m reading along…and notice
“Azariah 1:41”
Now, I also admire the zest that Poolman delivers his message of faith–because I see it uplift the human spirit every time I read his posts.
The Azariah had me searching, Poolman!
I always knew there were other parts of the Bible left in or out of certain canons–but I like it when I remember something from long ago that helps me understand something knew today!
Azariah was the former name of Abednego.
A new name, a new song, a new purpose to share the wonders of life on our planet!
Thanks for encouraging us in big and small ways to keep exploring, keep thinking, and keep hoping!
I’m off to an Art Show now.
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By: vgman on June 19, 2010
at 2:43 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Happy Father’s Day to all you dads out there!!! And granddads too. I hope you will have the opportunity to kick back, relax and be pampered all day long. You deserve it.
Reed Markham said, “Being a great father is like shaving. No matter how good you shaved today, you have to do it again tomorrow.”
I have so, so many fond memories of my own dad. (He shaved every day!) He has been gone for 46 years, but I still love, respect and honor him and always will. He was half of the picture who showed me how. My mom was the other half. I am grateful to both of them.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 19, 2010
at 2:31 PM
Healthy debates always add to our collective intelligence. I like Poolman’s steadfast beliefs. I also profess my beliefs in a higher intelligence, call him or her God, Allah, Jehovah, it does not matter. Find Him or Her in the incredibly small or the infinitely large. His, Her energy is forever, that is my belief. Even as our souls are gone from our bodies at death, we go on because the bones or ashes left behind still have energy left behind. Is that what the eternal life is about or are we talking about the soul moving on to greener pastures? Those are some of the questions I ask myself.
My 20 year old son, who calls himself an agnostic quickly pointed out when I voiced the last question in his presence, that the atom decays and does not live forever, quickly shattering my beliefs that I would remain in the universe forever, even at the atomic level. So here I am, still left wondering.
That is the hallmark of humanity, to keep wondering and searching for answers. That is why this vast universe is at our disposal, as our laboratory, to keep searching and to keep adding to creation and to what is. Religion has its place for those that need it. For those who already have the answer about God’s non-existence, maybe, that is what they need to survive also. It is fine with me, I and can live with whatever any of us chooses for our spirit, on this journey here, as long as we are not harming anybody.
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By: Easier on June 19, 2010
at 1:31 PM
PFesser53, I can see you have spent much time convincing yourself there is nothing supernatural existing in this same space we inhabit. That leaves you vulnerable to manipulation by such. Even your buddy Darwin vascillated in his beliefs. Tell me then, how do you know you and the world exist when you close your eyes? Faith? Memory? Knowledge? Intuition? Pin it down. I can see that we could spend much time and space debating the truth, and though I have the desire, unfortunately not the time. Science, however is fast proving my point.
Most folks are not well-versed in scripture or what knowledge it holds, as you claim:
“I must have missed that speech.” – Jim
Here’s a few claims (speech) from scripture:
“…while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?” (Job 38:7)
“Praise the Lord, stars of heaven; sing his praise and honor him forever.” (Azariah 1:41)
“The stones of the wall will cry out, and the beams of the woodwork will echo it.” (Habakkuk 2:11)
“Then the trees of the forest will sing, they will sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.” (1 Chronicles 16:33)
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By: Poolman on June 19, 2010
at 1:02 PM
vgman –
point well taken.
I think we as humans should really step up to the plate. We should face our deficiencies and own them. We should also stick out our chests and say, “We are capable of the most amazing acts of technology, philosophy, love and understanding.”
I don’t think we need anything else. Hiding behind religion just excuses us to give free reign to our basest instincts. A good man will only do good things. An evil man may do good or evil things. But for truly good men to do truly evil things it takes religion. Think about it: I know of no exceptions. Why otherwise intelligent men would surrender their wills to men of lower intelligence and morals is something I will never understand. And to allow oneself to be used for such evil purposes as we see perpetrated in the name of god every day is in my opinion an evil so debauched that I cannot even give it a name.
A fellow using the name Thunderf00t has a series of about 30 Youtube videos on “Why People Laugh at Creationists.” Blistering. But his best is IMHO called, “The Internet – Where Religions Go to Die.” The Internet is the ultimate place of free enquiry; no quarter asked or given. It is in this environment of bright light and free air that religion cannot survive. As Queen Esther would say, “The End is Near – but not in the way she thinks.”
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 19, 2010
at 12:36 PM
If I may be the “ball boy” at this point and run out to get the ball after it struck the net……
Perhaps it’s a mixture of both what we understand and don’t understand. The ordinary and extraordinary (which is my favorite word in the whole of language!)
Because the world as we know it has evolved and changed does not mean that we as the highest order (our perception) must sink to the lowest denominator of living according to the ordinary.
I see extraordinary moments that define the continual march of life on the planet. How we stay connected or not connected on an interconnected planet is a task that will play itself out in the ordinary. But the extraordinary may prove that the connections were meant to be nurtured, not annihilated.
Happy Saturday to all. And Happy Father’s Day tomorrow for those who wear the mantle.
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By: vgman on June 19, 2010
at 12:16 PM
Poolman –
“It is just I also believe one is the Supreme God that created all and is above all others.”
Why? My Boy Bill of Occam said that you should choose the simplest explanation for things. Why invoke magic, when it is not necessary to the explanation (and of course makes no sense)? Where is your data that shows gods exist? she should be able to show unequivocally that she exists…say, turn off all the electricity on the planet. Klaatu Virada Nicto – It’s done. Why can’t she do that? Simple. Then everybody believes. Why the convoluted tales? Just do something- anything – and we are all believers.
Because she doesn’t exist, that’s why.
‘Most cultures that believe in the supernatural hold the belief in one who is Supreme over all. And He is an extremely jealous one, at that.’
Jealoous? Why? When you are the biggest dog in the yard, why would you be insecure? What’s to be jealous of? That sounds more like a cuckolded man than a god. (I’ll tell you a secret – I think somebody made all this up.)
“He has left His signature everywhere and in everything. We can’t “see the forest through the trees.” Every created thing contains it, we are just beginning to recognize it as technology reveals to us the fundamental particles of the universe.”
gods aren’t necessary to explain these things; why bring them in? See Bill of Occam, above.
“He told us all creation has a voice – rocks, stars, plants, etc. included, and now science has proved this, as we are discovering that they actually do resonate all the way down to the smallest of elements.”
I must have missed that speech. Yep, the rules of nature are consistent. What’s that got to do with the existence of an invisible wizard?
“Or maybe you have a better reason why this is so?”
I do.
“-snip- His physical laws or scripture, what holds the earth and the other planets in their orbit?”
Gravity.
“How is this world so diverse and yet is all interconnected, balanced and compatible? Coincidence? Happenstance?”
Nope. No luck involved whatsoever. See Darwin, Charles.
“That takes MUCH MORE FAITH!”
Uh, no.
“Where does love originate and how do you measure its size or power?”
It evolved as a means of getting sexual reproduction, which itself – although very risky – confers a tremendous survival advantage via random mixing of genetic material. It’s not amenable to measure, unless you want to count children produced or murders caused by infidelity. See Darwin, Charles.
“The other emotions – what causes them to manifest? How do memories form and why? How is vision accomplished and why do all createds see things with differing optical abilities? Why do we smell and hear? What about taste – how’s that work? What causes our lungs to expand and fill with breath?”
Of course, while we do understand most of these processes to a pretty advanced degree, we don’t know the final answers to an arbitrary degree of precision, but that’s the nature of investigating the unknown: by definition you don’t know what you will find. I can tell you with a considerable degree of confidence, however, that the explanation ain’t “magic.”
“You got a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.”
No, no, monsieur. It is YOU. Those who make extraordinary claims bear the burden of proof. Science does not claim to have the ultimate answers; it only does the research – slowly, doggedly and precisely – and it can substantiate every step of its progress.
The claim that it was all done by magic, through the agency of an invisible wizard without a doubt falls under the “extraordinary claims” category and must be backed up with data. I see none.
The ball is in your court.
Cheers,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 19, 2010
at 11:50 AM
I skimmed some of the recent posts and found three that stood out. DFessor nailed it when he speculated on my motives for visiting this site and leaving.
Lori’s was another.
I forgot the third’s pen name.
I posted because I liked some of the people, and I wanted to exchange ideas with folks who disagreed. However, in time, they called me troll, racist, and even questioned my gender. Jean once wrote she didn’t think I would ever win any humanitarian awards. Lori wrote she refused to debate anyone who spouted right wing talk show’s lies. ( I had arrived at my conclusions independently.) Someone wrote it should be called James’, Helen and Margaret’s blog because I wasted so many posts defending myself from group attacks. Look it up. It is in the archives.
This site was becoming a waste of time, but if I just left as many do there would be no price for you to pay. My periodic visits probably irritate some of you. Even if you all scroll down, casual visitors will read my posts.
I have survived message board wars so serious, they periodically shut down. One revamped after someone threatened to call the FBI. One war involved two message boards and a blog with invasions from one to the other.
LORI, I have never threatened anyone on this board, and I don’t believe I have directly called anyone a name until now. I won’t stoop to your level this time either.
For number three, I was polite and defended myself when attacked. It occurred to me that many of my detractors were proving to be wrong more often than I.
I made some predictions early on, and the only one which has not yet happened is inflation. The reason for my greater predictive success is, I think too many of us are imprisoned in ideology and emotion. We cannot see the truth because it doesn’t fit our internalized belief systems. When someone threatens what becomes part of our identity, we attack, and it often happens here. I am not loyal to ideology as some of you are. Thus, I am right more often than you, though I am not the only one with an open mind who posts here. I crowed about it in hope some of you might notice your conclusions were misguided. Try the scientific method and open your minds.
I changed the rules to make them more favorable to me. I don’t read most of the comments, and I post once in a while when I feel like it. Massive scrolling. Something big is coming, and I am waiting to see how long it will take some of you to use the scientific method to improve your predictive skills.
If that reads egotistical, so be it. It is still true.
President Obama suggested we all sample alternative views. For example if we listen to Rush, we ought to try Kieth O. One would think you would be willing to follow his advice since you voted for him. Apparently not.
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By: James on June 19, 2010
at 11:39 AM
“There are over two hundred gods that neither of you believes in. I don’t believe in 201.
How are we different?” -Jim
Actually Jim, I believe in thousands of gods. Some believe we are all gods, and as a child of God, that has some validity. It is just I also believe one is the Supreme God that created all and is above all others. Most cultures that believe in the supernatural hold the belief in one who is Supreme over all. And He is an extremely jealous one, at that. He has left His signature everywhere and in everything. We can’t “see the forest through the trees.” Every created thing contains it, we are just beginning to recognize it as technology reveals to us the fundamental particles of the universe.
He told us all creation has a voice – rocks, stars, plants, etc. included, and now science has proved this, as we are discovering that they actually do resonate all the way down to the smallest of elements. Or maybe you have a better reason why this is so? Without mentioning God, His physical laws or scripture, what holds the earth and the other planets in their orbit? How is this world so diverse and yet is all interconnected, balanced and compatible? Coincidence? Happenstance? That takes MUCH MORE FAITH! Where does love originate and how do you measure its size or power? The other emotions – what causes them to manifest? How do memories form and why? How is vision accomplished and why do all createds see things with differing optical abilities? Why do we smell and hear? What about taste – how’s that work? What causes our lungs to expand and fill with breath? You got a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.
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By: Poolman on June 19, 2010
at 10:24 AM
Not an atheist.
An Anglican presently. Was Episcopalian.
Probably still on the books as one as well.
Worked for my first three years after college at the Southern Baptist Radio and TV Commission in Fort Worth as a radio producer. Interesting place.
Some very serious religious people there as well as those who wanted to be in a place of power.
Watched those who took advantage of the church to forward their own career and business agenda.
They used Baptist Commission trips to ply their own businesses including the networking with others of like minds.
We had prayer every day with a meeting in the cafeteria followed by praying over letters sent in.
Then there was the “count” room where the donations came in. Or letters with prayer requests along with donations. Guess that $5 will get you closer to God?
An atheist, no. I just don’t believe that I have to have a physical structure over or about me, and or a intercession by a man of the cloth, to be able to talk or commune with “my God”.
As to the Bible and quoting verse. For every one you quote to bolster your point, there is another one to make a valid point for the other side of an issue.
The Bible a source book that has been re-written many times over, for the past two thousand years.
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By: Craig on June 19, 2010
at 10:08 AM
I’m not sure what the problem would be with anybody’s religious beliefs, or lack thereof, as long as they don’t try to create law to force others to subscribe.
I don’t share his beliefs, but I’m fine with Poolman.
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By: judith on June 19, 2010
at 7:58 AM
Hmmm never saw Poolman as an atheist. He definitely believes in a higher power. . .what he calls it, be it God, Mother, Father, Sally May, I don’t know because it’s not germaine. As for using scripture, the Bible is one the oldest (and most edited) ongoing books of the centuries (as is the Koran, Talmud, Torah, etc)…so using it as a reference doesn’t seem like such a stretch in the course of a discussion on beliefs. My objection comes in when people use the Bible (or the Koran, Talmud, etc) as the only reference without consideration of cultural, political, or economic influences. . .
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By: Greytdog on June 19, 2010
at 7:41 AM
I am out all weekend but I wanted to make sure and wish our special pie eaten cyber Dad’s a happy day tomorrow! I hope your day is spent exactly the way YOU wish it to be. xox
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By: lori on June 19, 2010
at 6:29 AM
Here you go –
Hitchens compares Thatcher and Palin.
god what a wit:
http://video.theweek.com/video/Hitchens-Thatcher-is-sexier-tha#c=MM8WB90178B32ZJT&t=Hitchens:%20Thatcher%20is%20sexier%20than%20Palin
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 19, 2010
at 6:15 AM
Craig and Poolman –
I don’t understand why two atheists are debating gods.
It seems to me that you each are really atheists, but don’t have an outsider’s insight and can’t see it. There are over two hundred gods that neither of you believes in. I don’t believe in 201.
How are we different?
Puhleeeeeze… no scripture. Using scripture to support scripture is like laughing at your own joke. Just logic, s’il vous plait…
BTW, along the atheist line – I just ordered “Hitch 22.” I’m told there’s a great anecdote about Hitchens’ encounter with Maggie Thatcher, my personal goddess…
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 19, 2010
at 6:05 AM
“Sorry Miss Jean. The 21st century has been tough for me, too.
Jim”
‘Apology graciously accepted.’
Nice try, but I think you know the difference between an apology and an expression of sympathy.
(They were right. You ARE a devious old girl, aren’t you?) Heheee……
Cheers,
Jim
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By: PFesser on June 19, 2010
at 5:50 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
How much does 2 plus 2 equal these days? Back when I was in school the answer was 4. It was an exercise in arithmetic. Later, I spend untold hours memorizing multiplication tables without ever daring to ask why. I was in college before I got into the “New Math” that attempts to answer WHY instead of “do as your told and keep your mouth shut.” Nowadays, depending on who is doing the calculating, it can be whatever the motivation can be for adding it up.
Same with reading and writing. I spent plenty of time drawing circles and spikes to correctly learn how to write the cursive Palmer Method. As I understand it, nowadays, even grade school kids are expected to have laptops and be proficient on the computer and the inter-net.
Which brings me to quoting myself about ‘the spoiled rotten punk kids’ of today. All this ‘texting’ back and forth, communicating with their peer group and stuff. (Like us, coming to M&H’s blog on our home computers?) Wait a minute. Maybe the kids are practicing their reading and writing as well as eye-hand coordination skills. Maybe some day when they are 80 years old they will appreciate how much easier it is to lightly tap a computer keyboard than laboriously clutch a pen and scrawl out a signature with arthritic fingers. An illegible signature at that.
I have been playing the piano since I was 7 years old. I still do. (That involved LOTS and LOTS of practice. I sat down, shut up and did as I was told – practiced.) Now – – – I have NO strength in my hands, but my fingers are still flexible and nimble. I can type almost as fast as I can think. Of course, I make typos but most of the time I can go back and correct those on a computer. Can’t do that in a piano performance. (I can’t open a damn jar of pickles in the kitchen without help though.)
As we know, all these electronic gadgets are expensive. The ‘spoiled rotten punk kids’ of today come from families that are affluent enough to buy their offspring these gadgets. These kids will probably have opportunities in life to realize their potentials, have success and ‘get ahead’ in the world of tomorrow. What about the kids whose parents can’t afford the electronic gadgets? Another generation or two or three or five of the ‘haves and the have-nots’.
So how do we ‘solve’ this 2 plus 2 problem now? How do we make the gadgets affordable to everyone? Well, we get the electronic components made and assembled in other countries with cheap labor such as Japan, China, Taiwan and other Asian countries. That’s good because it provides employment there and raised the overall standard of living in those countries. All we have to do is pay for the shipping, marketing and advertising over here. Capitalism at its best and most productive. 2 plus 2 equals 4, right? Uhhhhh.
We have to maintain good relations with our trading partner countries. However, when the excessive PROFIT motive enters the scenario as a factor, then the equation becomes 2 plus 2 plus 4-5-6-7-8-9-X equals, what? If we continue to be so arrogant, provincial and Nationalistic that we believe, as a ‘developed country’, America deserves to have a much larger piece of the economic (PROFIT) pie than our trading partner countries, then maybe it is time to declare war on them, go in and just take what we want and need. We humans have been very good at that and can always invent some valid religious, racial, ethnic or cultural reason for doing just that. Manifest Destiny you know. “You soldiers keep your mouths shut, do as you are told and go shoot somebody.”
So when it comes to problem solving, is it possible that there is a little more to it than “2 plus 2 equals 4, sit down, do the grunt work and keep your mouth shut”?
Also a far as I know, with the exception of an occasional troll who has all the correct answers here at M&H, the days of oracles and prophets are long gone. Problems are usually dynamic and ongoing rather than solvable with quick snappy answers. It is better to perhaps take the time to ANTICIPATE the whole range of possible problems that may or may not arise rather than only REACT after the fact. Otherwise 2 plus 2 equals 1234567891011121314….…………to the nth degree.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 19, 2010
at 1:27 AM
“The good news is conservative voters are not as emotionally wedded to the pro-war insanity that characterized the George W. Bush years as they once were. The bad news is most GOP politicians still are, and remain just as pro-war, any war as ever, while simultaneously pretending to be for smaller government and less spending.”
The biggest earmark is empire.
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By: Poolman on June 18, 2010
at 9:38 PM
Auntie Jean:
Good grief, been away for a few days and I’ll never find the time to catch up on the latest deviations. The Adirondacks are beautiful this time of the year though the weather was foul. But my wife has a knack for making lemonade out of lemons so we still had a great time.
BTW what apology were you accepting? I didn’t see one.
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By: jsri on June 18, 2010
at 9:20 PM
Tea Party: From Political Movement to Bowel Movement
“OK, let me say it once, there are no liberals or conservatives, only stupid dupes who pick at each other’s bones.”
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By: Poolman on June 18, 2010
at 9:14 PM
Good posts! Donna, I second your analysis. Smart move from BP. You would think the whiners who usually frown on government involvement would appreciate this move, but no. At least one southern governor voiced it and said it is a stupid idea because it would deprive BP of the funds needed to drill more oil wells and to create jobs. Who is to pay for the cleanup I ask? Who is to compensate the people who have lost their livelihood? The government? Where is the government to find these funds? Aren’t these the same people who are screaming about the deficit (at least now, they were silent for 8 years before this administration came into being) and screaming about the government spending our children’s future into oblivion? It is just sickening to oppose just to oppose. We do need to make sense.
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By: Easier on June 18, 2010
at 8:11 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Jim.
PFesser 53 on June 18, 2010 at 1:51P wrote:
“Sorry Miss Jean. The 21st century has been tough for me, too.
Jim”
Apology graciously accepted.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 18, 2010
at 7:44 PM
Greytdog,
I agree…
now the news about the Ref and his possible expulsion..
“The referee who disallowed a potential game-winning goal for the United States will face an expedited performance review from FIFA and is likely to be excluded from the rest of the World Cup, according to a FIFA source.
Koman Coulibaly from Mali disallowed Maurice Edu’s 86th-minute strike that would have given the USA a 3-2 lead over Slovenia at Ellis Park and likely would have led to a thrilling comeback victory Friday. Coulibaly appeared to rule that American midfielder Michael Bradley had impeded a Slovenian defender, even though video replays showed no infringement.”
FIFA’s refereeing committee will review footage from the Group C clash on Saturday to evaluate Coulibaly’s performance after several USA players complained about the way he had struggled to control a fiercely contested match.
“If he is found to have made a serious mistake, especially one that affected the outcome, then he would be highly unlikely to play any further part in the tournament,” said the source, who is close to senior figures on the refereeing panel. “FIFA is determined to keep refereeing standards high and does not want high-profile mistakes.”
Coulibaly came under heavy criticism from the U.S. team and head coach Bob Bradley, but it was not just the Edu no-goal that will come under scrutiny.
Assessors also are likely to be concerned at the highly physical nature of the match. American striker Jozy Altidore was repeatedly involved in tussles with the Slovenian defense, and an ugly incident took place midway through the second half when Slovenia’s Marko Suler appeared to throw Altidore to the ground. Coulibaly issued Suler a yellow card, but the strong infraction was enough for a red card and an ejection.
Coulibaly’s mistake will only increase calls for the introduction of instant replay for controversial decisions, something FIFA has strongly resisted up to this point.
“It is up to FIFA for what they do about him,” USA star Clint Dempsey said. “But it wasn’t just the goal. They were holding and pushing and grabbing and putting themselves in there. What are you supposed to do?”
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By: Craig on June 18, 2010
at 6:30 PM
Poolman,
That’s deep.
I’ll have to ponder those thoughts and wait a while before I can respond appropriately.
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By: Craig on June 18, 2010
at 6:21 PM
My God is not associated with any religion, political party, culture, government, or country. Those are all man’s establishments. My God is Spirit and, like the wind, goes wherever He will. We don’t see the wind coming or going, but we know it’s there. We can hear it and feel it and can see how it bends whatever it touches, yet we cannot control it.
As far as punishment – so many different beliefs in this area. The scripture says the wages of sin is death. That death is regarding a spiritual one. It tells us that sin entered the world through Eve in the garden. That sin was disobedience. God only had one rule and we didn’t keep it.
Scripture tells us that mankind and the whole earth were cursed (punished) from that day forward, generation to generation. We have to choose to break that chain. He even sent us a life-preserver. The issue becomes whether we allow Him to rescue us from this cesspool we’ve created, or whether we feel we can swim it alone.
Punishment of the wicked will be their future. Meanwhile God allows things to happen and lets men do what they will. That is why we call it freewill. There is always a choice for us. Some choices are stupid and others are wise. All have consequences. But it rains on the wicked as it does on the good. There is no promise that this journey is to be easy. Be rest assured, however. Your footprints will always be visible to Him.
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By: Poolman on June 18, 2010
at 5:17 PM
USA was robbed a goal during the game with Slovonia. Just sayin.
If I’d had a vuvuzela I would have honked it at that damn ref . . .or given him my glasses.
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By: Greytdog on June 18, 2010
at 4:28 PM
Well your God shows up when everything is going great. At least that’s what I sense from your post.
Since your quoting Revelations..and I do not in any way know the Bible as well as you..Why always Revelations….That’s all about “times up” you have messed it up and I’m pissed and I’m not gonna take it anymore type of God.
What about the forgiving all knowing God that I’m sure has protected those fishermen on the seas and the oil drillers and the BP executives. Yep..I’ll bet even some of them are Christians or maybe even Jews and perhaps Muslims.
But why pull our country into this as if its just an American issue. What about Haiti? Chili? Indonesia? The killings in some far off lands of former Russia and or the soldier praying for God to get him the hell out of the line of fire.
Just because that soldier volunteered to go into the Army and “you” don’t agree with its mission..Does that mean “your” God is punishing that young soldier? And MY God is not hearing my prayer for him to help deliver him…because I believe in the mission?
Yep we have God plastered everywhere..but in the schools. Judges who are “sworn in” in court rooms
make decisions about who should hear the word of God. And or let some minor hate filled Kansas preacher defile the funeral of one of the nations finest with signs that are filled with hate speech and including children in the protests..He is protected by the same judges, yet the family has to endure these people who “use” God as an instrument in their perverted little way.
I ramble on…but you seem to have God all to yourself..and are right with God..and thus even though I go to Church..he will hear you and not me? Because I differ from you politically and or over issues of who is more righteous in his ways?
Lastly from the Los Angeles Times..
“The Deepwater Horizon oil rig that exploded in the Gulf of Mexico was built in South Korea. It was operated by a Swiss company under contract to a British oil firm. Primary responsibility for safety and other inspections rested not with the U.S. government but with the Republic of the Marshall Islands — a tiny, impoverished nation in the Pacific Ocean.” How many religions or gods could be tied up in this mess?
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By: Craig on June 18, 2010
at 4:15 PM
Hi, Lori! Things are good–I’ve been travelling. Nice to be back!
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By: Donna on June 18, 2010
at 4:13 PM
oh and how could I forget Colorado blue.. 😉 silly me
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By: lori on June 18, 2010
at 4:01 PM
Hey Donna I’ve missed you! It’s nice to read your words again, I hope all is well.. 😉
Now if only we would hear from Kitkat, our Michigan artist who is sturggling with the big C, Pamela, and a whole host of others that have been MIA for awhile, my day would be complete!
TY AZ grandma…….. and I fan you and finona and Buttons all!
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By: lori on June 18, 2010
at 3:53 PM
Hey Craig, your God seems like a meanie. Mine can stop this whole parade any time He so desires. He is waaaay too patient and forgiving for me to understand. He’s just waiting for as many as will to get their hearts in order and heads out of their asses before He says, “That’s it – time’s up!”
Many decided that we could do without Him long ago, so He lets us fend for ourselves for the most part. We felt comfortable with His name on our money and our buildings. We put His books in our libraries and homes. We built Him shrines and conquered peoples and lands for Him. We have prayed His name over bullets and bombs and buildings and ships. Yet we do not seek Him and His wisdom. Just to be still and listen. We have perfected how to screw it up, but still need lots of work in the restoration department. You know – we’ve been running around for generations claiming, “Directions? We don’t need no stinking directions?” Now we forgot how to ask. We got so many diversions we can’t hear that inner voice.
“Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.”
(Revelation 3:20)
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By: Poolman on June 18, 2010
at 3:25 PM
Well as to BP and the “reported ” extorted funds.
I believe BP has 4 years to deliver this 20 billion and can fund more f needed.
Five Billion a year really won’t hurt them that much. My concern is how does one man..determine who gets funds?
I mean ..almost everyone living within 30 miles of the water could possibly claim they have been wronged. The most obvious beside the eco system, are the fishermen.
From looking at the news yesterday some have found a way to make lemonade from lemons.
The guy who is doing a thousand dollar per potty a month business in the delivery of porta-potties.
He stands to make some where in the neighborhood of 300K a month. He delivered 300 of them. These are for the clean up workers.
There is also the guy who has started selling clean up supplies for the beaches..tiny toy beach shovels and the like. He has a booming business.
Then the hotels are full. Houses are for rent at huge mark up and will stay this way since evidently the oil will continue to gush till August.
Poolman I just wish God had diverted a little attention to the men operating the equipment.
Some will say this was Gods will, That he caused this catastrophe. Free will I guess also has something to do with this. May God shine his face upon the families who lost loved ones. No one on that rig wanted anything like this to happen.
As I don’t think Mr. Tony of BP wanted the attention he is getting. I realize that BP says they have an investigation going on. I think we all know that it was probably due to some hurry up and drill response.
I just hope God is not so pissed that he unleashes a Hurricane into the Gulf.
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By: Craig on June 18, 2010
at 2:37 PM
Feinburg, not Fineman. Sorry–I should not multi-task!
By the way, Tony Hayward has been removed by BP from the gulf situation.
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By: Donna on June 18, 2010
at 2:14 PM
A-J
“Jim, it is unbecoming of you to behave like a bully toward a woman. An apology from you is in order. Otherwise whatever you have to say will be immediately discredited. Be a gentleman or else STFU!!!!”
STFU, huh… Not very ladylike. Perhaps a dose of your own advice would be in order…
**********
I do appreciate your POV – it is mine as well; however that era is gone and we’d both do well to acknowledge it.
Women have demanded equality – they fly fighter planes, engage in combat, steer ships of state, call people names on blogs.
You can’t have it both way: act like a man and then expect to be treated like a hothouse flower. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out. If you dish it out, don’t whine when somebody whips your ass.
Sorry Miss Jean. The 21st century has been tough for me, too.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 18, 2010
at 1:51 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Donna and Jim,
Donna, your measured and logical comments make plenty of sense to me. But that’s what I have come to expect from you. Thanks for your cogent analysis.
Jim, it is unbecoming of you to behave like a bully toward a woman. An apology from you is in order. Otherwise whatever you have to say will be immediately discredited. Be a gentleman or else STFU!!!!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 18, 2010
at 1:41 PM
Poolman –
Just saw your post. Very interesting. I was familiar with a sewage treatment plant several years ago that had a large “cooker” that allowed the sewage to sit and produce methane, which was then used to keep the cooker warm to optimize bacterial growth. Worked very well. You would be interested in the setup: two large cylinders, one of which fit in the other, but the upper one had the bottom open, the bottom one had the top open. The sewage liquid level served as the seal. Very elegant. As the sewage fermented, the gas would lift the top one up to accommodate the volume of gas. They sold the excess, and the bacterial fermentation further degraded the solids to a lower energy level, making them safer.
Of course there is no energy to speak of available in urine. There is a guy here at work that buttonholes me on a regular basis to tell me about the new way to get fuel from water. I tell him to see the second law of thermo, but to no avail.
There are new trash burners that are extremely clean extant now. Scandinavia uses them extensively and solves the trash problem as well as the energy problem simultaneously. NYC exports a lot of trash to my state for burial that could be thusly used, but the environmentalists knee-jerk oppose incinerators and the approval process is so long we just bury it. Jesus.
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By: PFesser53 on June 18, 2010
at 1:33 PM
Heads up! Your patronage or boycott of BP filling stations won’t affect their bottom line, gasoline is a generic product. I used to live in a two filling station town, after the Sinclair fuel truck filled the tanks at the Sinclair station, it went down the street and topped off Phillips station. My husband and I buy wherever the price is the lowest, we like to look out for our own bottom line.
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By: no one's puppet on June 18, 2010
at 1:25 PM
Donna –
Point well made.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 18, 2010
at 1:21 PM
to azgrandma –
Well, granny, sometimes when you call people names, they call you names back. Not a particularly good way to do business, but then again, what the hell – it’s just electrons. As a general rule, one shouldn’t start a fight with people you don’t know – sometimes it’s the other guy who will finish it.
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 18, 2010
at 1:15 PM
“…your car won’t run on piss.” – Jim
Well we’re getting close. And truly if the damn oil companies weren’t so powerful and we didn’t let them get control of our energy needs and controllers, we might already be where we could use piss for fuel. This is certainly a byproduct we, as a nation, are full of. You might say it’s our most plentiful resource.
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By: Poolman on June 18, 2010
at 1:00 PM
Poolman–you have hit on one of the real reasons for the escrow. The uncertainty of litigation has a huge impact on stock values. While there still will be litigation, it will be more limited and BP’s auditors may be better able to quantify.
Further, BP may have avoided some liability to its shareholders for mismanagement claims–those cases will be a nightmare for it.
Don’t get me wrong, anyone. I am not defending BP. I’m simply saying that this was an extremely smart move from the standpoint of risk management. It also was a very smart move from the government’s standpoint.
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By: Donna on June 18, 2010
at 12:54 PM
PFesser53 on June 18, 2010@10:48am
“just one stripe for your ample bottom today……..”
I’ve been reading this blog and this ongoing thread for well over a year now. I’ve only commented a few times.
Once was to let craig/gregorio know what an ass he made of himself when interacting with Ms. HoneyJoe Rumples! And yes, He deserved it! Tho’ I did come back and apologize for ‘HOW’ I went about doing so….Not ‘FOR’ calling him out.
Besides, HoneyJoe is one of my personal heroes on this thread, (as are greytdog, lori, auntie jean, et al) and she is MORE than capable of putting ANY of you guys who have the tendency toward ‘knuckle draggin’ and ‘slope headedness’ in your proper phylum. That does include you Jim dear. Whether it’s Fiona or any of the other gorgeous Ladies who are in the opposition on this thread.
Ample bottom …hmmmmmmmm……
Let’s see….golden rule: Do unto others as you would have done to you.
Pretty succinct wouldn’t any of you say?
So by the parameters set up by the golden rule you have opened yourself up for verbal insult in the same vein.
Let’s see Jim……I’ve gone back to find what you were referring to and I guess you feel that since you got the last ‘word’ on the immigration disagreement you were having with fiona WAAAAYYYY back on this thread you felt you ‘won’ that round. No, darlin’, she just got bored with you and the dead horse you were beating.
I do have to ask you how it would have made you feel to have had one of the women here comment on a portion of your anatomy?? Seeing as none of us have ‘seen’ each other, even if our photos are attached to our avatars.
Let’s see….there could be all kinds of comments on the size of your penis and balls, or possible lack of muscle tone, or HAIR! Whether around your balls or on your head, or God forbid, your height or lack thereof.
See how this works? Is that what most of you want?
Being insulting to one another does nothing to bring us together. Only serves to put many more mountains in between. Lot’s of heat and smoke, but NO light.
Just sayin’ ! May God above bless you each with an outstanding weekend!
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By: azgrandma on June 18, 2010
at 12:53 PM
Another good thing to come out of the agreement is that BP’s stock has stabilized since the negotiation. I guess there is a chance they may be around to continue to pollute this world in the future. Maybe they will exercise a little more caution and care.
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By: Poolman on June 18, 2010
at 12:49 PM
Pfesser Jim–actually, I think the escrow was a very smart move on BP’s part and would re-think the “shake down” characterization.
It has effectively saved a fortune in legal fees. Most claimants will proceed directly against the fund, rather than to go through the years of litigation they otherwise would have to survive. It will make class actions far more difficult than they otherwise would be, since judges may well conclude that there is no need for a class in light of the availability for relief from the fund. I have a fair amount of experience defending (and pursuing) class actions and, from BP’s standpoint, I can easily see legal bills hitting over $100 million in a relatively short time if not for the escrow.
Further, Fineman is really good at administering funds (he did the Holocaust class action, among others). If there are bogus claims (and there will be), he’ll weed them out. Those folks would then have a very difficult time persuading a court that they had legit claims.
Please note that BP has never characterized the escrow as a “shakedown” or as anything other than voluntary. I think that well may be because it was a negotiated and very astute risk management move. And, from a PR standpoint, brilliant–they have folks such as yourself increasing your patronage, they have right wing radio beating the drum for them (I am not equating you to that–don’t misunderstand me).
So, with all due respect, I’d suggest that you don’t have enough of the story to draw a reasoned conclusion that this was anything that BP didn’t decide it wanted, for very good reasons.
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By: Donna on June 18, 2010
at 12:16 PM
guess it depends on definitions ,Jim..you claim it is orted” funds from BP…Others would say they being held “accontable and responsibe ” for the damages THEIR mthods of operatios caused economically and environmentally as well !! Glad you are willing to patronize them for in truth NONE, ABOSLUTELY NONE CAN AFFORD FOR THEM TO BE BANKRUPTED until at the VERY least PROPER COMPENSATION is dispersed to those injured/harmed by their reckless modus operendi’s as they sought first /foremost to gain PROFIT, disregarding other factors (and their “record” rather bespeaks that part of the equation!!!) True too is the fact that is NOT possible to flip some switch to alternative energy modes–forgot the number of vehicles on our roads let alone other energy users/usage..but this should indeed BE THE WAKE UP to ALL –wil be to those sincerely concerned about our nations future for if we do not take the steps needed now (and frankly, we are already LAGGING behind OTHERS….!!!!) we are dooming ourselves and our kids and theirs . WAKE UP TIME AMERICA, likely our last chance in too many respects and we seriously need to refigure our energy needs/consumptions/sources or accept the oncoming decline of “our way of desired life/lifestyle/etc !!)
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By: Buttons44 on June 18, 2010
at 12:16 PM
fiona –
“I’m so glad, though, that you are behind those who are wrecking the environment. It tells me more about you than any other statement you have made.
Jerk.”
heheee….Still smarting after that spanking I gave you on that last round, are we?
Just one stripe for your ample bottom today, I guess, since your post was so short you were only able to make one mistake.
to wit: I would like to point out that nobody is talking about a boycott. Nobody in the govt has mentioned that word. What they are doing is extorting money from a company – that’s it, period. I am helping that company get a very small amount of the money they will need to pay that extortion via my patronage, so that in some small way I can help the tens of thousands who work for BP to keep their jobs.
If you really care about the little guy, you should do the same. After all, you have to buy fuel somewhere – since your car won’t run on piss.
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 18, 2010
at 10:48 AM
Apparently expert scientific observation and reporting in April determined the sea floor is fractured beyond repair. The rest of this apparently, and as suspected, is all show. Some of the experts believe the only chance to stop this leaking is a nuclear bomb. Pretty serious stuff!
As a believer, I know my God can seal this. If faith can move mountains, what’s a fractured seafloor? I pray the Almighty move to seal that leak and contain the rest of the oil and gas spewing into our waters. Agree with me in prayer, for believers are promised ” I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.” (Matthew 18:19) May He receive all the glory. How many would repent and believe after such a major sign?
Unfortunately America is far too “sophisticated” to believe in miracles. The rest of the world has more faith in the supernatural. Lack of faith is a great hindrance in modern America. Other countries have an easier time believing in miracles. We are more used to man-made special effects. We put our trust in technology rather that the power of God.
Some others feel this is part of the judgment of God and the beginning of the end, and are almost joyful for it. The issue I have with that is two-fold. First, those suffering are not the ones that caused this and second, the bible doesn’t tell us to ever give up praying for this planet and its people. We are to bring His kingdom into this realm. We are His hands and mouth and heart to the world. Put on the mind of Christ who could do nothing unless the Father revealed it to Him. We think of Jesus as God on earth, yet He was completely human in His walk here on earth. He could only do what the Holy Spirit enabled through Him.
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By: Poolman on June 18, 2010
at 10:36 AM
Pfesser wrote: shakedowns and extortion put you in the same category as the criminal you are prosecuting.
I for one now search out BP stations to buy all my fuel there – which, between my old Ford truck, several kids’ cars and my ’62 Cessna (14 gal/hr) amounts to a hella lot of processed hydrocarbon.
—–
A boycott is neither a shakedown nor extortion. It is voting with your dollars.
I’m so glad, though, that you are behind those who are wrecking the environment. It tells me more about you than any other statement you have made.
Jerk.
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By: fiona64 on June 18, 2010
at 9:50 AM
And on the front against violence in school..
Dateline from Providence Rhode Island ..
An eight year old was sent home from school for wearing a hat he and his mother had made honoring troops who were their pen pals.
The hat was decorated with a small American flag and toy soldiers.
Woops!
No guns in school.
The toy soldiers had guns.
The teacher called the mother and said no guns allowed in school.
The boy and his “camo” decorated hat was sent home and told he violated a “zero tolerance policy” set forth by the Tiogue school in Coventry.
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By: Craig on June 18, 2010
at 9:49 AM
Two of the leading recipients of energy monies: ..And the winners are…
Current leading recipient of oil and gas campaign contributions on the committee is Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La. She is a strong proponent of offshore drilling. Landrieu has received $363,950 from the oil and gas industry over the last five years.
And coming in a close second…
Sen. Blanche Lincoln, D-Ark., is second highest recipient of oil and gas money on the committee with $311,750. Lincoln has been a proponent of offshore drilling for some time, praising President Obama’s March decision to expand offshore drilling.
Good thing they sat on their hands and didn’t speak out. The checks are in the mail ladies.
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By: Craig on June 18, 2010
at 9:40 AM
Good morning, all! TGIF! Thanks for the mango pickle info, Sally. Now I am on a quest to duplicate that tasty memory.
Hmmmm…back to world affairs… So much going on, so many fronts. Here’s an interesting connection between BP, Goldman Sachs, The Vatican, UN, WTO, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg group, etc., in one person – Peter Sutherland – someone to watch, for sure. Wonder what his annual take home is? Guessing he’s probably not too affected by this down economy.
As far as our gushing in the Gulf, apparently BP was having issues with this well since February of this year, two months before it blew. “It’s been a doomed voyage from the beginning.”
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By: Poolman on June 18, 2010
at 9:22 AM
During the CNBC broadcasting yesterday after the
Panel shut down for the day it was reported that Barton had received some approximate $300K
in donations from oil interests in the past three
years. At the same time however many others on the panel were reported to have received more than $1 Million dollars. No wonder the panel wanted him to sit down and shut up.
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By: Craig on June 18, 2010
at 9:16 AM
I don’t know why anyone in the ReBiblican party would want Barton to apologize for anything. Shakedown is precisely what it is, and nothing more.
This spill is an unprecedented disaster – and evidence suggests misconduct in BP at the highest level; but as your mother told you, two wrongs don’t make a right, and abusing Presidential power is not appropriate. If there is cause for legal action against BP, so be it; otherwise, shakedowns and extortion put you in the same category as the criminal you are prosecuting.
I for one now search out BP stations to buy all my fuel there – which, between my old Ford truck, several kids’ cars and my ’62 Cessna (14 gal/hr) amounts to a hella lot of processed hydrocarbon.
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By: PFesser53 on June 18, 2010
at 9:03 AM
Who is Joe Barton?? Yeah, yeah, he is the gigantic ass, Republican from the hearings yesterday who was slobbering and apologizing to BP and Tony Hayward…………..seriously??
It has somehow become the fault of the people who were killed on the oil rig? It has somehow become the fault of the people whose livelihood was centered around the fishing industry that has now been destroyed? It is the fault of the states whose beaches are full of oil and a pristine Gulf of Mexico that will never be the same again?? Really Joe??? If North Korea or Iran had done such a thing, Joe, you and your Republican cronies would be pounding your fists and demanding to nuke them !!!
So, who is Joe Barton, really?? Joe Barton is a former executive of ARCO oil, who was purchased by BP. Joe Barton was given millions by BP to run for office from Houston County in Texas. Joe Barton also has the distinct honor of being names JACKHOLE of the week. Even his fellow Republicans were freaked out by his stupidity and to save face they forced him to make a phony apology. But, the same man who said the taxpayers should pay for the oil disaster was part of the meeting to shut Joe up………what a bunch of phonies.
So Republicans, you don’t want taxes, but you think tax payers should pay for the damages??? That must mean that you don’t want your pals in the top 2% and your pals in big business to pay any more taxes , but it is a-ok for the middle class to pay for the arrogance and irresponsibility of a corporation. TYPICAL !!!!!
And then we have the idiot Palin, vomiting her ignorance and making Bill O’reilly look sane. Little Sarah thinks we should use the little Dutch boy to put his finger in the hole and the oil leak will stop because those Dutch people know how to stop water leaks and stuff………..SHUT UP SARAH !!!
During Sarah’s frenzied, ignorant, ramblings she screamed that the President has refused help from other countries. All one has to do for the correct information is go to the State Department website and you will see what countries offered help, for a fee, what they offered and that we have accepted the help from each one. Yet another bunch of lies from Dickhead Morris, Palin and the nutbags on the right…….. all debunked……..again !!!!!
opensecrets.org will give you infornation on who took what from whom for their election campaigns. When you contribute as individuals to candidates, you have to put down your employer, if you work. There are also “action” committies formed by corporations and until the corrupt supreme court made their heinous ruling this year, the corporate money was distributed to candidates through the action committees.
I found all of this information on Randi Rhodes website. She has become the only sane progressive talker we have.
The fat slob, Limbaugh and all the other hate mongers have been screaming about Barack Obama “getting money from BP”. If you look at the information, Barack Obama recieved individual contributions from people who were employed at BP…….no doubt they were either Democrats or Independents. Barack Obama took no money from ANY political action committee for his political campaign.
John McCain took 2.4 million from the oil and gas political action committee for his 2008 campaign. And that was just one corporation who contributed to his campaign.
Of the 35.6 million dollars given by the oil and gas action committee, 77% went to Republicans…………….”fascinatin’ !!!”
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By: Colorado Blue on June 18, 2010
at 9:02 AM
Thank you, Gramiam! Yes, Barton is now kind of backtracking, insisting that what he said was not what he meant and it was all being taken out of context, blah, blah, Repug blah! But I bet he is still working with BP’s interior decorator on the curtains for his new corner office at BP headquarters. He is just that flaming dumb!
Flaming fast was the Dem response. I was flooded by e-mails from every Dem group seeking my signature, etc. etc. in a blow-back to Barton’s charge. The best defense is one helluva good offense and the Dems now have the ball with the stuff that fell out of Barton’s mouth.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 18, 2010
at 7:40 AM
OMG! I used to eat green mangos with patis (salty salty dried fish sauce)! Yum….the tartness of the green mango was wonderfully highlighted by the salt in the sauce. . of course we poured fish sauce over rice – a few years ago I found a little oriental food market here in Cen. FL that carried the Filipino fish sauce. . .so I bought a shelf’s worth. My family was coming in for Christmas and yup! The fish sauce ended up in their stocking! And Christmas dinner that year was a Filipino fest, including lechon (roasted pig)! Best Christmas ever for several reasons – first time the entire family had been able to be together, and the last Christmas we all got to spend with my dad. Yum. Memories. Now I’m salivating for mangoes and tamarinds
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By: Greytdog on June 18, 2010
at 7:12 AM
I was pleased to see Organizing for America and David Plouffe were all over Barton’s apology for several reasons.
One is, it was a STUPID thing to say and certainly highlighted just who is in the back pocket of big oil and just how deep those pockets are! Also it is about time the White house and fellow dems (Organizing for America) start making some political hay instead of rolling over and allowing the GOP to lay this at the President’s feet! (as usual)
It was the BUSH administration that gave a wink and a nod to all big oil DE regulation. It was Palin and Mc Cain that went around the country screaming DRILL BABY DRILL! It’s time we start reminding people what party it is that CARES about the enviornment and works their asses off to try and protect it!
It’s time we start reminding the people where much of the blame lay!
It you haven’t already done so you can sign this letter and show the White House where we stand. Thanks! Remember to use your “throw away” e-mail addy if you don’t want to be bothered with addtional e-mails although they do a pretty good job of keeping your e-mail private and aren’t too intrusive. 😉
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/noapologies?source=20100617_DP_auto
namaste
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/noapologies?source=20100617_DP_auto
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By: lori on June 18, 2010
at 5:29 AM
Greytdog, glad to have helped! Our plumeria trees are full of flowers right now. They really like the sun.
Poolman, I think you are talking about pickled mango. There is a version with rice vinegar, sugar, salt and li hing mui boiled, cooled, then poured and bottled over green slices of mango.
We used to eat green or half ripe mango with soy sauce, rice vinegar and black pepper. So tart it makes my mouth pucker just thinking about it! My stomach would hurt the next day, but I would eat more, it was so deliciously wicked on the tongue.
Sistah Jean, my husband likes lychee too! We have a 17 year old tree that has never given fruit and we have done everything to it – tortured it, girded it, fertilized, etc. No fruit.
I’d rather have dragon’s eye instead of lychee – much sweeter and juicier.
We must all be missing Margaret and Helen, sorry for the side tracks but glad to catch up with you all! How’s Grandma Katie?
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 18, 2010
at 1:07 AM
I hope you girls are OK. I sure would love to read your take on the current happenings. Especially on the NAZI looking Beck.
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By: Zane on June 17, 2010
at 10:34 PM
When I was a young boy on Oahu, a friend’s mother would “can” sliced mango in some kind of soy sauce type of mixture and it was to die for. I have looked all over the oriental stores where ever I have lived and never found anything quite the same. I have looked for recipes without luck.
I can find plenty of dried squid and plum (other tastes I aquired on the island), but not the same mango treat. The squid treats are great and gaurantee I’ll be left alone. That is, except for the cats. 🙂
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By: Poolman on June 17, 2010
at 8:11 PM
OK, it came back
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 17, 2010
at 7:43 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Wot hoppen’ to my avatar? Well, by now all of you know it’s me, dontcha?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 17, 2010
at 7:41 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Greytdog and Honolulu Sally,
You beat me to the punch, Sistah Sally, with your response to Greytdog’s request (plea?) about her plumeria/frangipangi. I concur with everything you told her. We don’t have room for any more plumeria in our Pitiful Little Patch out back.
By all means, Greytdog, stake your little plumeria tree! We are tropical out here but I think you are semi-tropical. Plenty of sun and humidity are what plumeria like. Also we have umpteen varieties of plumeria so it’s hard to know which one you have. The blossoms on ours out here are mostly white with pale yellow centers; some others are pink and others deep burgundy. The so-called trunks are gnarly and grow every-which-a-way, as do most of the branches. So they are hard to train, sort of like dogs and keiki. They take a long time to mature, (also like dogs and keiki.)
You can prune them. As Sistah Sally said, the sap is toxic. It is white and sticky and runs down when you break off a branch. I used to wear disposable gloves and used a sharp knife to make a clean cut for the surface of a new root system. These are the keiki you can pot in some nice rich potting soil. To get them started, I used “8-8-8 Anthurium & Orchid Fertilizer”. (8% each of nitrogen, Phosphoric Acid and Soluble Potash with other minerals thrown in and some soil bacteria that help the plants assimilate the nutrients.) If that’s not available to you, probably any good all purpose fertilizer like Miracle Grow would work.
So it’s possible, with these keiki, you could replace the ones your dogs messed up. But how to keep the dogs away –- gal — that’s your problem. Dogs are just doing what comes naturally, lifting their legs and romping around.
One more thing about the hybrids Sistah Sally mentioned. For sure, we never know where the bees have been. But anymore, what bees? We have a friend with a farm that keeps bees for honey. The bees are diminishing. What are we gonna do without the bees and their polleny little feet doing their thing?
There are some hybrid plumeria that have hardier trunks and branches and are much taller trees than most. But none of them are ever going to be mighty oaks. The tall hybrids have a profusion of snow-white blossoms and are beautiful in landscaping. There is one hitch. Their flowers have no fragrance.
The delicate exquisite plumeria fragrance, similar to gardenias or magnolias, makes them the favorites for leis. It has been tried to distill the fragrance into perfume, with no success. Tourist traps sell ‘Plumeria Perfume and Cologne’. They don’t even come close.
Like gardenias or magnolias, the petals are very fragile, bruise easily and don’t last long.
Whenever we have occasion to FTD flowers to the mainland, we always send cut gingers, heliconias and proteas. They will last over a month, but have no fragrance. Interesting that many of the sweet smelling flowers wilt quickly, while ones with no scent last a long time.
Now, don’t get me started on mangos!!! I am totally addicted to the Hayden Mangos out here!!!!! My husband is crazy about lychee. Me, I want my mangos!!!!! We get a gallon jug of Langer’s Mango Nectar at Costco. It is in the bottled juice section, not frozen. I have a glass, half orange juice and half mango nectar with my lunch everyday. Mmmmmmm!
We are making you homesicker and homesicker for SE Asia, aren’t we Greytdog.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 17, 2010
at 7:34 PM
Mageen, The GOP has screamed bloody murder at Joe “Ho” Barton of Texas. They demanded that he immediately retract his “apology” to BP and Boener was seen mumbling something about kicking him out of his cushy committee ranking member seat if he didn’t STFU. At least some Rethugs have a tad bit of self preservation. Not much, but a tad.
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By: Gramiam on June 17, 2010
at 7:33 PM
should be for, not or
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By: sunshine on June 17, 2010
at 6:38 PM
Auntie Jean, Just read your joke about the little snake. I laughed so hard I was crying and could hardly see to read. Good one. Thanks or the laugh. I believe we were all ready for a laugh..
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By: sunshine on June 17, 2010
at 6:36 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I watched the hearings on TV about the oil spill while I was having breakfast. (I didn’t, but I almost barfed.) My considered opinion:
BP may be the fourth largest company in the world, but I think it’s a chicken shit outfit.
Reminds me of an old joke:
We. the committee on the whole, with the necessary papers on hand, have decided to let the matter drop.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 17, 2010
at 2:51 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I now have a new computer guru!!!! He will make house calls but it is all a matter of scheduling. As you can imagine on our itty-bitty island, he is much in demand. For now, we can keep Petulant Penelope happy, up and running with TLC at least for a while. We will think about a whole new computer and cross that bridge when we come to it. I trust him and feel like he knows what he is doing. When it comes to computers, I sure don’t!
I found out what happened to ‘Dr. Danny’, my former computer guru. He had stage-four cancer that advanced rapidly. Our island lost a fine man.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 17, 2010
at 2:41 PM
Why? You want to ruin THAT too??
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By: Stephanie R. on June 17, 2010
at 1:23 PM
Does Margaret and or Helen have a Face Book page?
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By: Craig on June 17, 2010
at 12:27 PM
Helennnnnnnnnnn! Somebody let Joe Barton loose! And his lips moved! Now according to him BP is the victim, not the 11 dead men or the thousands of Gulf Coasters who will suffer from the cavalier attitude BP has toward safety. If I were a gambler, I would say that his own party would deprive him of at least some of his perks before they show him the door! How long should I hold my breath?
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 17, 2010
at 12:05 PM
Here we go: it was on Andrew Sullivan’s blog at The Atlantic.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 17, 2010
at 11:55 AM
Hi all –
Anybody want to know why we are bankrupt?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm
Like them or not (I like one, loathe the other), there is a pretty good Youtube video of a Napolitano interview with Queen Esther and Ron Paul. Paul discusses our military bases and the impossibility of maintaining this empire. I’ll see if I can find it. Interesting comments from the both of them on legalization of marijuana. (Paul is for it; Palin against, but thinks it should be a very, very low priority.)
Now where did I see that damned thing…
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 17, 2010
at 11:48 AM
Honolulu Sally thank you so much for the information! That’s more than I learned from my gleanings of websites. Also much more succinct. Thank you thank you! I’ll stake my “baby” this morning after coffee/computer time. I admit to having a few palpitations yesterday when the afternoon thunderstorm descended with 60mph gusts of wind & shear. . .but my plumeria survived. I’ve only had a few clusters of blooms, certainly not enough to make a lei. We had plumeria when we lived overseas and that’s why I wanted them now. Remembrances of home long gone.
Mangoes. . . oh my. We get tiny little mangoes from the Caribbean but they don’t have that burst of sweet flavor that my mouth remembers. . .we had two huge mango trees in our front yard in the Philippines. . .very magical trees. Always felt safe in them, even when I scampered to the tops. . . and the fruit was like the gold at the end of the rainbow. . . yum
Thank you again for the information. So much appreciate all the input from this fine fine forum.
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By: Greytdog on June 17, 2010
at 6:57 AM
Greytdog,
I have a huge plumeria tree (rainbow species) in our front yard, and I have several keikis (babies) in pots because I was told the seeds of every plumeria are hybrids and you never know what you will get from them – depends on the bees and where they frolicked before they got to your tree. Trouble is, I don’t know how long I have to wait to see what the hybrids are – it has been years and years and no flowers from the keikis yet!
For trimming, I just whack off branches whenever I feel like it with those cutters. It always comes back even fuller than before. The sap is a bit poisonous, so be careful, and it drips like crazy. You can dry the cuttings a bit, then stick them in dirt and those will grow after awhile. 8-12″ is a good length for those starter “logs”.
I have some plantings that lean way over too. Not good when it gets full because the trunk may break, so go ahead and stake it, or cut it in half. Never had a real cold snap here so I wouldn’t know if plumeria trees can withstand a few days of freeze. It can stand drought pretty well.
If you make leis with the flowers, immerse them in water after picking, shake off the water and put them in a plastic bag in your refrigerator to make them firmer. It takes about 40 flowers to make one lei.
If your trees die, just take a trip to Hawaii – I’ve seen packaged plumeria branch sections packaged like gifts, as well as ti leaf sections. I would mail some to you but I don’t know about our agriculture rules – we are rather strict here about imports and exports of plant and animals.
On a side note, our mangoes are in harvest mode. We have white pirie mango – the best fruit in the world to me. Sweet, smooth, and flavor to knock your socks off. Yummmm…..
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 17, 2010
at 2:14 AM
greytdog,
He isn’t Hawaiian, but my nephew who is a horticulturlist sezs “early spring”.
And yes you can stake it if you like. You can also prune it below the branches, about a foot above the soil line, cutting at a 45 degree angle and pot the pruned branches. They should bloom assuming they have bloomed before in about a year. You can use that latex waxy stuff on the exposed cuts. He says that will give you a fuller bush.
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By: lori on June 16, 2010
at 3:49 PM
this is funny…
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By: thymeCher on June 16, 2010
at 3:47 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and Greytdog,
Hallelujah! C’est tout fini! We finished the damn Grande Menage (spring housecleaning) not too far off schedule. Barring some gawd awful mess, we should be all set until Octoberish.
When my husband retired, I died and went to heaven! He took over the windows and the heavy duty vacuuming. Out here, wall-to-wall carpeting doesn’t do too well. It mildews and molds and gets smelly to say nothing of the grungy traffic areas. So we have bamboo wood floors throughout with some large area rugs. A couple of years ago I got him a Roomba Robot vacuum named ‘Fido’ for Father’s Day. That fixed him for getting me a big GE electric skillet for Mother’s Day one year! (Tip. Remember that, gals, if you are at a loss as to what to get ole dad for Father’s Day. He’s got enough ties.)
So most of the time, housekeeping wise, we get along fine with Swifters, ‘Fido’ and a lick and a promise. And I use the skillet quite frequently.
I’m all set for the summer now. Where are you, Helen and Margaret, with a new post to get our political juices flowing again?
Greytdog, I’ll get back to you on the plumeria. It might be lengthy.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 16, 2010
at 1:19 PM
Greytdog, my experience with plumeria was in Hawaii where we had one in our backyard. We always made leis from the flowers and the smell is heavenly. That’s all I know.
no one’s puppet, I had a nice lengthy response to your last post, but apparently it went into cyberspace. This site doesn’t like a lot of links I try to post. The simple answers are Yes. Yes. Yes. And the intelligence community, architects, professors, aviation specialists and pilots, firemen, nine eleven survivors, etc. Damn, those were good links, too. One site has captured screen shots of visitors from The Federal Reserve, Raytheon, Halliburton, Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Nasa, Honeywell, Reliant Energy, etc. Hmmm… There is even a radio interview with one of the researchers for the Popular Mechanic’s piece and they shut him down pretty good. He tries to tell them they have the hijacker’s DNA, but can’t say how or where that can be verified. Fun stuff.
Have a nice day, all. Don’t leave any tern unstoned. 😉
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By: Poolman on June 16, 2010
at 10:22 AM
I say we have Rush Limbaugh SIT on the leaking oil pipe in the gulf. Problem solved.
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By: Margie on June 16, 2010
at 10:20 AM
That’s quite a leap from burquas to stoning. But okay. Perhaps we’d all be better off adhering to Lori’s advice “There is no sense in talking about an issue when one party is just not clear on the facts.” which is why I’ve chosen to not discuss Israeli politics with my fellow Americans.
And on that note – just a query for our Hawaiian friends – my frangipangi (plumeria) is in a HUGE pot – have to do it that way since Cen. FL does get periodic freezes and cold temps during the winter. The plant has now become a nice little tree that is also listing like crazy. . . wondering if I should stake the tree in the pot? I’m afraid the next good windstorm will snap it in half. I’m very attached to this tree – once had 4 but with the greyhounds racing around the yard, three of my little frangis were systematically beheaded. . .
Also on the same note. . .when’s the right time to trim my plumeria? I’ve been to countless websites but they’re all geared to Hawaii. . .and even though I’ve asked questions on the those websites no one’s bothered to answer them. So I bring those questions to the wisdom of this forum. HELP!
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By: Greytdog on June 16, 2010
at 9:58 AM
They have been debunked by who, other physicists? Engineers? Forensics?
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By: no one's puppet on June 16, 2010
at 7:54 AM
Jim I can help you out a little if you would like… I think your argument is about Afghanistan and Pakistan cultures maybe? Those are two different countries from Iran. Maybe you can call your former college roommate and he will explain it to you.
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By: lori on June 16, 2010
at 7:16 AM
Jim, you are misinformed when it comes the culture (women wearing burqas) and practices of modern day Iran. Sorry, but until you become more informed we will have to suspend our discussions on Iran. There is no sense in talking about an issue when one party is just not clear on the facts.
And no as I said I don’t agree with capital punishment in any form.. By stones, electricity, drugs… It’s all wrong yet my own country practices it.
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By: lori on June 16, 2010
at 7:03 AM
Lori –
“I do know some Iranian Muslim women wear burquas of their own free will, I have asked them! LOL Many women in Iran do not choose to wear the burquas and only wear head scarves.”
“Free will” is a funny thing. American women who have had the hell beaten out of them again and again often ‘choose’ to stay with the man who did it. I would like to see how many women who were raised in an open society would voluntarily move to Iran and wear the burqa. I think that would be a more fair comparison.
“Iran is a BEAUTIFUL modern country and their people were kind and friendly and well educated and desperate to become successful business entrepreneur’s. They could not have been nicer to our American business delegation. If only they could get a modern moderate Supreme Leader!”
Agreed. They are wonderful people. Too bad they are under sixth-century rule. My best friend in college was Persian; in 1974 he told me that the greatest threat to the world would be the rise of radical Islam. Wow.
“I wouldn’t wear one (burqa) in the desert, that’s for sure,”
Yes you would.
“but then again I wouldn’t live in a commune”
Oh, but yes you would.
“and share my husband with 30 “wives”.”
Oh, yes you would.
Nor would I wear long dresses and bare 19 children,
This you would do, too. Believe me. They won’t ask your opinion. Not once.
“or many other religious traditions commonly practiced in some “Christian” denominations. Just because I wouldn’t do it doesn’t make it “wrong”.”
No, it just makes you “compelled.”
“The real issue, in my mind, is that women of all cultures have free will to CHOOSE the religious practices they want to participate in.”
Now you’re back on track.
“As for the stonings….. Both Christian and Islamic religions have roots in stoning. It goes without saying I am against this practice, as I am against ALL capitiol punishment. However Iran banned stoning in 2002 and is not commonly practiced in that country. In fact very few Islamic countries practice stoning.”
Not ‘commonly practiced?” Only a “few” countries stone women? Are you kidding? That makes it OK?
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By: PFesser53 on June 16, 2010
at 6:57 AM
OH and since I turned 50 and have experienced the occassional “hot flashes” here are other burqas? habits? types of clothing? I wouldn’t wear! But that’s just me! LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_habit
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By: lori on June 16, 2010
at 6:30 AM
opps capital punishment.. LOL sorry vgman.. 😉
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By: lori on June 16, 2010
at 6:12 AM
I do know some Iranian Muslim women wear burquas of their own free will, I have asked them! LOL Many women in Iran do not choose to wear the burquas and only wear head scarves.
Iran is a BEAUTIFUL modern country and their people were kind and friendly and well educated and desperate to become successful business entrepreneur’s. They could not have been nicer to our American business delegation. If only they could get a modern moderate Supreme Leader!
I wouldn’t wear one (burqa) in the desert, that’s for sure, but then again I wouldn’t live in a commune and share my husband with 30 “wives”. Nor would I wear long dresses and bare 19 children, or many other religious traditions commonly practiced in some “Christian” denominations. Just because I wouldn’t do it doesn’t make it “wrong”.
The real issue, in my mind, is that women of all cultures have free will to CHOOSE the religious practices they want to participate in.
As for the stonings….. Both Christian and Islamic religions have roots in stoning. It goes without saying I am against this practice, as I am against ALL capitiol punishment. However Iran banned stoning in 2002 and is not commonly practiced in that country. In fact very few Islamic countries practice stoning.
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By: lori on June 16, 2010
at 5:47 AM
Sorry – my previous post should read as follows:
No. Nor have I been to the bottom of the sea, but I – as you – know enough about it to have an opinion about drilling there for oil.
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By: PFesser53 on June 16, 2010
at 3:22 AM
“I personally have been to five predominately Muslim countries, my husband, seven. Have you?”
No. Nor have I been to the bottom of the sea, but I – as you – know enough about it to have an opinion.
“Veils, chadors and burkas are not too dissimilar from the little lace caps, long print cotton dresses and sensible shoes that some women in Amish and Mennonite country wear by custom and choice in Pennsylvania.”
Nonsense. Think a minute about what you just said. Do you think anyone would wear this:
in the middle of the blazing desert by choice? Still want to stick by that?
“The dress of women is comparable to most of the rest of the world in that it is determined by climate and culture.”
I am dumbfounded. Absolutely dumbfounded. Climate? Did you really say climate? Yep, a black, unventilated (except for mesh over the eyes) solid sack inverted over the head is the VERY thing for the Arabian desert life.
“Women’s rights go deeper than the clothes they wear or do not wear.”
This is called stating the obvious.
“If you can’t get to any predominately Muslim countries for yourself, try reading the memoir of Queen Noor of Jordan. I’ve forgotten the title but Amazon or your library could find it for you.”
I have absolutely no interest in visiting a sixth-century theocracy. It is enough that I send them petrodollars to use in the erection of madrasas for the training of little boys to bomb Westerners.
“Iran has a very large well educated population that is not at all happy with Amidijhimamjmpimjd any more than many Americans were not at all happy with Baby Boy Bush. Yet both were initially and duly elected, ahem, by popular support.”
But you miss or ignore the fundamental difference: do I need to spell it out?
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By: PFesser53 on June 16, 2010
at 3:15 AM
LOL, no one’s puppet, I looked at the popular mechanics in the link and know where they stand. I have read their debunking article. Sorry, THEY have been debunked over and over and have been criticized because they don’t explore the important facts. They cherry-pick 16 claims that aren’t even mainstream and try to debunk them. There are many more out there that debunk them. Let’s just say they are very greatly outnumbered. I’m not crazy about Hearst publications myself, anyway. But if they give you that warm and cozy feeling, oh well, they do it for my mom too. Hot dogs, apple pie, and Dixie – you betcha! Mom thinks there is no way our government would EVER do anything to harm or deceive us. Reminds me of an old saying by P.T. Barnum…
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By: Poolman on June 16, 2010
at 1:17 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Yep, dead men DO bleed!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 16, 2010
at 12:39 AM
“So it makes sense to me to have Iran sit on the council, and offer a different perspective.” RAE
Really?? Ohh and they have some swamp land to sell ya as well…..
You say Moslem..I say Muslim
..either/Ither lets call the whole thing off…
AS for women and Muslim authority..
Different Islamic countries different rules..sort of on the fly..
I don’t think we have taken to stoning them solely because the husband says so. And trading them like animals..well I guess that’s just their heritage..
“once married the man has the dominant position as regards financial decisions, morally and legally.
The position of single women is even more precarious when Islamic laws are applied fully. This is especially true when Islamic custom is mixed with local tribal/early modern customs, as in Afghanistan.” wikipedia…
Then the Taliban says no educating the females and then that is up for interpretation also depending on country…and certainly not in the same room or building as men…
Yep Rae I guess we Americans could learn a thing or not…and from the Iranians…?
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By: Craig on June 15, 2010
at 9:57 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Jim, Craig and Rae,
I’ve got stuff I should be doing but I have to respond. If you go to my website;
www,jeans-gatherings.com. # 14,
entitled “Present-Day Moslem Countries”, please read our adventures in predominately muslim countries. The picture is a copy of an original oil portrait (14″ X16″) my husband got in Saudi Arabia some 30 years ago. It is proudly hanging and displayed in our home. He tried to barter on the price, but the gallery there wouldn’t budge. I copied it in colored pencils for the web site.
You will note that I spell the word, “Moslem” not “Muslim”. “Muslim” more closely resembles the pronounciation, which is not germaine in the written word. In the written text the spellings are interchangeable.
Incidentally, I originally got my web-site well over ten years ago to share with family and friends, mostly of some of our traveling adventures. I badly need a new computer guru to help me update it. It is de-activated now so I can’t respond to comments there.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 15, 2010
at 8:48 PM
And I have one for you Poolman. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
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By: no one's puppet on June 15, 2010
at 8:34 PM
Thanks, Auntie Jean, for pointing out that women’s rights is an issue that’s a bit more complicated than who has to cover up what. In fact, an argument could be made that women in our culture are exploited. I’ve heard many Muslim women (and conservative religious women of various kinds) say that they find women to be treated like so much meat in the U.S. So it makes sense to me to have Iran sit on the council, and offer a different perspective.
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By: Rae on June 15, 2010
at 8:19 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Jim and Craig,
I personally have been to five predominately Muslim countries, my husband, seven. Have you? As for the veils, we saw very few. Veils, chadors and burkas are not too dissimilar from the little lace caps, long print cotton dresses and sensible shoes that some women in Amish and Mennonite country wear by custom and choice in Pennsylvania.
(We did see some pretty spectacular jewelry peeking out from behind those few veils and burkas we did see!)
The dress of women is comparable to most of the rest of the world in that it is determined by climate and culture. Women’s rights go deeper than the clothes they wear or do not wear.
If you can’t get to any predominately Muslim countries for yourself, try reading the memoir of Queen Noor of Jordan. I’ve forgotten the title but Amazon or your library could find it for you.
Iran has a very large well educated population that is not at all happy with Amidijhimamjmpimjd any more than many Americans were not at all happy with Baby Boy Bush. Yet both were initially and duly elected, ahem, by popular support.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 15, 2010
at 7:36 PM
“Also, perhaps the U.S. could set aside hubris and accept expertise and equipment from other countries that have experience with similar problems. We need all the help we can get from any quarter.”
Agree 100% Jean…!!!
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By: Craig on June 15, 2010
at 7:32 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I watched President Obama’s speech from the Oval Office a little while ago. I thought it was a good speech in that he didn’t try to minimize the magnitude of the problem nor did he paint an overly grim picture of what is the reality of the whole mess. And he sidestepped political posturing for the most part. Well, maybe just a little bit.
I’m hoping that some congressional members, if not for altruistic reasons, at least to earn their keep, will pitch in and do their part. Also, perhaps the U.S. could set aside hubris and accept expertise and equipment from other countries that have experience with similar problems. We need all the help we can get from any quarter.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 15, 2010
at 6:59 PM
Hey everyone,
This porch is a fine place to drag one’s feet up the steps at the end of a long day.
You keep me sane in the midst of the zany last days of a difficult school year.
Three days left….
Thanks for all the interesting topics, links, and general banter going on here.
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By: vgman on June 15, 2010
at 6:58 PM
Craig –
Point well made.
I am reminded of the early ‘seventies, when kids were really beginning to learn the power of nonviolence at the feet of MLK and others. Since everyone was pretty much doing pot and not so much alcohol, things were pretty mellow at the bars. But every so often you would get some ethanol hick from my neck of the woods who hadn’t gotten the message yet, and would try to start a fight.
The freaks (me) would start hissing from all corners of the bar and going, “Booooooo….” – sometimes surrounding the guy and going, “Not cool, man, not cool.” Sometimes they would get really red and attack someone, but the others would just pull him off and scold him – but never hit him.
They would just freak out and leave the bar. It was wonderful.
I absolutely believe we need to do (already have done) that with Iran and the other places run by bearded men. Just isolate them…tell them, no you cannot sit on the xyz council until you civilize yourself and are fit to be in polite company. No we will not trade with you. No we will not acknowledge your presence until you get straight.
Unfortunately we have not done that and now they are on the verge of TheBomb. That cannot happen, and I believe Israel will act – and soon. I hope it is not necessary, but it doesn’t look good.
Jim
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By: Jim on June 15, 2010
at 4:51 PM
The above I think makes a very valid point about what or who is America today.
As is stated..in the above video..
When Iran is voted by the United Nations to sit on the council over seeing women’s rights..what will they do , decide on what cover the veil will be for women?
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By: Craig on June 15, 2010
at 3:02 PM
I read this this morning and thought of you, no one’s puppet. I try to limit what I post here regarding 9-11, believe it or not, but it gets harder all the time as more and more people and articles keep emerging. Just another of those things that make you go hmmmm…
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By: Poolman on June 15, 2010
at 12:59 PM
PFesser53, I saw that in the news today and thought it pretty funny. I’m amazed they spent 250K on that. That amount of money sure could have been used more wisely, IMO. I guess the Almighty wasn’t to pleased with it or rather considered it worthy of being a burnt offering. Let’s see if the parishioners get the message.
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By: Poolman on June 15, 2010
at 12:54 PM
I just had to share this:
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/national/Lightning-strike-destroys-%27Touchdown-Jesus%27-statue
We have in the past driven past this monstrosity, and my kids call it “Touchdown Jesus,” because it looks like – well, you can see what it looks like…
Apparently others saw the same thing and that became its nickname.
My wife suggested a caption:
“God Struck By Lightning. Suicide Suspected. Film at Eleven.” Pretty good.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 15, 2010
at 12:05 PM
Mageen In Old Virginny, Those “kids” were from the same conservative organization (Karl Rove’s minions) as the one that used the “sting” operation on Acorn. (which btw turned out to be all fraudulent ! Surprise!)
No matter…. we need to become much more astute and political savy in these type situations. Every single time these a holes set us up we step right into their crap. We are smarter than this …. Rove has been using these tactics for years you think we’d wise up. Geeeze!
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By: lori on June 15, 2010
at 7:40 AM
If it ain’t South Carolina, its North Carolina! No, this is not about the Edwards! Rep. Bob Etheridge of NC was ambushed on the street by some “students” doing a “project” and he reacted very, very defensively when they refused to identify themselves. Given what Sen. Mary Landrieu went through when those cockamamie kids invaded her New Orleans office and tried to bug her phones, and all the general bad karma on the Hill these days, I don’t blame Etheridge for his reaction. Decades ago I was a journalist and I had the editor from hell. She (yes, she!) would have fricasseed my hide in public if I had done an ambush. Still do not know who these kids were or where they were from. That sounds highly suspicious to me. As for the Rep. turning tail and running, frankly, in politics thats even worse than what he did.
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By: Mageen in OId Virginny on June 15, 2010
at 6:20 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
South Carolina is rapidly becoming the poster child for embarrassing American Four Ring Circus Politics. No all of us, or candidates, are photogenic, (Vic Rawls), articulate, (Alvin Green), or experienced in front of national or international cameras.
There are plenty of decent, intelligent citizens of South Carolina or nearby states who have much better information and insights than the rest of us who are so removed geographically. I hope we can hear from some of them here on M&H.
We are reading an excellent book. My husband and I read the same books, then discuss (and fight) about them. Our newest one is “dirty rotten strategies” by Ian. I. Mitroff and Abraham Silvers. Despite the title, it is a very serious work. Both authors are distinguished academic scholars and Silvers, especially, is an expert in statistics. I highly, highly recommend it.
This is taken from the book and is not a précis. It is my own take on it.
A man was sent to a psychiatrist by his family and friends because they were worried about his behaviour. The man was absolutely convinced that he was dead. The analyst worked with him for months but didn’t seem to be able to make any headway. The physician conferred with colleagues of every discipline about the case. Unfortunately, they seemed to be in consensus that despite the best efforts of science, training and experience there are some outlier cases that defy treatment and are hopeless.
In desperation, the doctor tried one more approach and asked the man if dead men bleed?
The outraged man said, “Of course not!” Then the doctor asked the man to extend his right hand, palm up. The doc gently pricked the index finger with a needle and a tiny drop of blood appeared.
In horror, the man screamed, clutched his wrist and shrieked, “My God, dead men DO bleed!!!
The shrink gave up.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
P. S. You will note that the ‘psychiatrist’ goes from being an ‘analyst’, to ‘physician’ to ‘doctor’, to ‘doc’ and then ‘shrink’ in keeping with some popular (mis?-)conceptions. Also note that the ‘patient’ is referred to as a ‘man’ throughout. A little gender bias on both counts maybe? In neither case is race, religion, nor ethnic heritage mentioned. We do make lots and lots of assumptions, don’t we.
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 14, 2010
at 7:37 PM
Poolman, according to Clyburn (D-SC) he could smell the elephant dung all over the primary in SC. . . interesting.
Now it seems Alvin Greene has a website and twitter acct but still hasn’t released his donor list or his financials. I’m not amazed, however, that the SC press and all the politicos following these races didn’t take the time to even find out anything about the entire roster of candidates on the ballot. WTF? Seems SC press could have an excusable explanation – all those sex scandals and such drawing away their attention – but the rest of the political press? No excuse. They failed to do their job.
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By: Greytdog on June 14, 2010
at 12:04 PM
Either Americans have been dumbed down to the point that they shouldn’t be allowed around sharp instruments or there’s massive voter fraud going on in our elections. It’s probably a little of both, but mostly the latter.
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By: Poolman on June 14, 2010
at 10:47 AM
A lesson in world economics. Sell everything immediately! 😀
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By: Poolman on June 14, 2010
at 10:06 AM
The BP OIL SPILL may not be stopped until Christmas – Terrible Thought!
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2010/06/bp-oil-spill-may-not-be-plugged-until.html
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By: JuneauJoe on June 14, 2010
at 10:00 AM
Auntie Jean, thanks so much for that chuckle
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 14, 2010
at 7:54 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Enough with the computer stuff already. You guys and gals are way, way over my head. The point is, to NEVER panic, make assumptions and let things get out of hand.
“GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS.
I didn’t think twice about the tiny fellow on my baby boxwood until I got this e mail.
Garter Snakes (Thamnophissirtalis) can be dangerous. Yes, grass snakes, not rattlesnakes. Here’s why. A couple had a lot of potted plants. During a recent cold spell, the wife was bringing a lot of them indoors to protect them from a possible freeze. It turned out that a little green garden grass snake was curled up hidden in one of the plants. When it had warmed up, it slithered out and the wife saw it go under the sofa. She let out a very loud scream.
The husband (who was taking a shower) ran out into the living room naked to see what the problem was. She told him there was a snake under the sofa. He got down on the floor on his hands and knees to look for it.
About that time the family dog came and cold-nosed him on the behind. He thought the snake had bitten him, so he screamed and fell over on the floor. His wife thought he had a heart attack, so she covered him up, told him to lie still and called an ambulance.
The attendants rushed in, would not listen to his protests, loaded him on the stretcher, and started carrying him out. About that time, the snake came out from under the sofa and the Emergency Medical Technician saw it and dropped his end of the stretcher. That’s when the man broke his leg and why he is still in the hospital.
The wife still had the problem of the snake in the house, so she called on a neighbor who volunteered to capture the snake. He armed himself with a rolled-up newspaper and began poking under the couch. Soon he decided it was gone and told the woman. She sat down on the sofa in relief.
But while relaxing, her hand dangled in between the cushions, where she felt the snake wriggling around. She screamed and fainted, the snake rushed back under the sofa. The neighbor, seeing her lying there passed out, tried to use CPR to revive her. The neighbor’s wife, who had just returned from shopping at the grocery store, saw her husband’s mouth on the woman’s mouth and slammed her husband in the back of the head with a bag of canned goods, knocking him out and cutting his scalp to a point where it needed stitches.
The noise woke the woman from her dead faint and she saw her neighbor lying on the floor with his wife bending over him, so she assumed that the snake had bitten him. She went to the kitchen and got a small bottle of whiskey, and began pouring it down the man’s throat.
Breathe here…
By now, the police had arrived. They saw the unconscious man, smelled the whiskey, and assumed that a drunken fight had occurred. They were about to arrest them all, when the women tried to explain how it all happened over a little garden snake! The police called another ambulance, which took away the neighbor and his sobbing wife.
Now, the little snake again crawled out from under the sofa and one of the policemen drew his gun and fired at it. He missed the snake and hit the leg of the end table. The table fell over, the lamp on it shattered and, as the bulb broke, it started a fire in the drapes. The other policeman tried to beat out the flames, and fell through the window into the yard on top of the family dog who, startled, jumped out and raced into the street, where an oncoming car swerved to avoid it and smashed into the parked police car.
Meanwhile, neighbors saw the burning drapes and called in the fire department. The firemen had started raising the fire ladder when they were halfway down the street. The rising ladder tore out the overhead wires, put out the power, and disconnected the telephones in a ten-square city block area, (but they did get the house fire out).
Time passed! Both men were discharged from the hospital, the house was repaired, the dog came home, the police acquired a new car and all was right with their world.
A while later they were watching TV and the weatherman announced a cold snap for that night. The wife asked her husband if he thought they should bring in their plants for the night.
And that’s when he shot her.”
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 14, 2010
at 1:04 AM
Hi Jerome, welcome to M&H’s front porch. Come sit have some pie…. Seems we have lots in common…
Liked the link Greytdog thanks.
Jim, well we are even I guess, because I think you have an ego problem…. for starters
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By: lori on June 13, 2010
at 5:04 PM
There we go.
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By: PFesser53 on June 13, 2010
at 4:03 PM
Yep, didn’t get thru again.
“ctrl-t” or “mac-t”
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By: PFesser53 on June 13, 2010
at 4:03 PM
My last post had control key combos in the second to last paragraph, which did not get through. Let me try them with qoutes:
“” or “”
Must be the carats.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 13, 2010
at 4:02 PM
Lori –
I think you have a kid problem, not a Mac problem. I have seven Macs here in my house, and four in storage, dating back to an Apple IIE. All work just fine except an old laptop, for which I cannot find a new battery; the screen is very weak also. The software on all of them functions perfectly.
As for hardware failures, although everybody gets hardware from China, the Mac hardware has outlasted any other; maybe they only buy on Tuesdays…
Poolman –
The “there are no Mac viruses because there are so few Macs” has been debunked so many times it’s not worth refuting anymore. See the daringfireball link I posted a while back. Macs are obviously a plum target since, how better for a hacker to get status than to infect the “impregnable Macs”? And of course, if there are, say, 10% Macs, they should, one would think, have 10% of the viruses. OK for the sake of argument, let’s say 5%. But the fact is they have approximately zero percent. Why is that? See the article.
jsri –
Let me get this straight…you paid “a couple of hundred dollars” to get your files transferred? Why would you do that, when the new Mac’s very first screen when you turn it on tells you how to completely migrate your old files to the new machine?
Hint: connect a firewire or USB cable between the machines, turn on the old one while holding down the I believe, or it may be .
It works every time, I have used it on every new Mac I have bought, and it is FREE.
Hmmm…..
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 13, 2010
at 3:59 PM
Gotta’ put in my 2 cents’ worth on computers. I’ve been using computers since 1968. Needless to say, I’ve seen a few changes. And I don’t always think of PCs as computers — more like personal free time raptors. So I’ve figured out how to make them TOOLS, not members of the family.
Considerations:
1) Macs are easy to use, work right away with everything else you want to plug them into, don’t generally get viruses, and these days you can still use the software you care about — probably MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.
2) Macs work differently from PCs. That means learning curve. Maybe you’re up for it, maybe you’re too tired to want to invest the time. Only you can say.
3) You probably aren’t crunching big mathematical models or gaming … do you really need a full-sized computer? Maybe a netbook will do — they’re fine for people who surf the net, create documents, read email. Kind of silly to buy a nail gun when a thumb tack will do.
4) Every personal computer jockey out there has his or her own ideas about how to configure things. And when somebody passes away or moves away, then you’re left with a mess. If there’s any way you can get your computer completely configured and ready to go by a large outfit — yes, Geek Squad, or Dell, or Apple — do it. Otherwise, within a very short time, you’ll end up paying more for service than you do for software, which is always more than the hardware. Keep it simple and keep it standard.
5) BitDefender is cheap virus software, and it’s highly-rated. Make sure that you have some kind of virus software on your computer, but don’t spring for the “Internet Security” packages. You’ll almost always end up with a conflict — with your operating system, with the crappy software your Internet service provider (hear me, At&T?) automatically installs on your computer although you don’t need it, etc.
6) Along the lines of keep it simple — don’t use an email “client” like Outlook. Use gmail, hotmail, yahoo, whatever you want (all free), and just get to your email over the Internet. That way you can always get to it, regardless of which computer you use, and your address book will be accessible from anywhere. Don’t use the email service attached to your Internet Service Provider — @charter.net, for example. If you do, you’re either stuck forever with charter as your ISP, or you’ll have to notify everyone you know of your new email address when you change. What a mess.
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By: Rae on June 13, 2010
at 3:11 PM
Andrew Sullivan’s The Daily Dish has an interesting conversation http://bit.ly/aleVbm
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By: Greytdog on June 13, 2010
at 2:10 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Oh my! So much good advice on my computer situation. Thank you. I think I’m learning much more than I ever wanted to know.
When we lived for 3 years in San Jose, (’73-’76)one of our sons was in high school and worked at a gas station He used to fill up Steve Jobs tank. Does that count?
Aloha!
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 13, 2010
at 1:00 PM
Hi Jean:
My first exposure to computers was in grad school in the late 50’s-early 60’s. It was an IBM 1620 (I think), was as big as a house, had a gazillion vacuum tubes and generated enough heat to warm a hotel. Data entry was via punch cards and you had to wait months for an appointment to get on to use it. Needless to say, I avoided it as much as possible.
When PC’s became available for others beyond hobbyists, I bought one. I started in 1979 with a DEC VT180 that had four floppy drives, each with 180k storage. Then a Digital Rainbow, with 360k floppies. It had dual operating systems, MS-DOS and CPM. My next machine was a Mac SE 30 (the MAC in a box) with 20MB storage but had a high capacity floppy, 1.4MB. I used it mainly for word processing and spreadsheets. I followed that with a Mac 630 that I used pretty much the same way. At that time networking was still in its infancy and all file transfers were via floppy discs.
Then in 1994 I saw an ad in the paper that a group was preparing to teach Win 95 at the local library, a course directed specifically to seniors. When I called to make an appointment I learned they had no instructor. So, after teaching myself the fundamentals of WIN 95 I ended up teaching the course.
About five years ago I bought an iBook for my wife. I needed some files transferred from my old MAC630 so I took it to a local Apple store where I paid a couple hundred dollars for them to do the transfer. When I got the iBook home nothing would open and I also found that the files were no longer on the old machine’s hard drive. They took no responsibility for the mess and fighting with them soon became a lost cause. I was not a happy camper and have avoided Apple ever since. I still have the $1500 paperweight but I’m about to take the hard drive out and send the carcass to the dump.
Currently I have a Dell desktop(5 yrs old) and a Toshiba Laptop (7 yrs old), both running XP and both still in good operating condition. The laptop I take when traveling and download my photos on the fly.
I do mostly routine stuff nowadays along with some photo editing. BTW if software cost is a problem you might consider asking your computer guru (whoever that turns out to be) about Open Office. It is a collection of computer programs that are free. It is equal to MS Office and even saves files in the MS Office formats. If you want to know a little more about it, check out the following link.
http://why.openoffice.org/
Good Luck!!
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By: jsri on June 13, 2010
at 12:52 PM
“There is actually an entire organization dedicated to exposing his (Limbaugh’s) lies from each and every broadcast.”
I would like to know what that organization is. I have a lot of “dittoheads” in my family in south Louisiana. I’ve never seen a bunch of scardy-cats in my life. Makes me glad I live in the liberal oasis of Austin, TX. “Limbaugh” is a curse word in this town, thank God.
I almost feel sorry for conservatives in Austin, some of which are good friends, to have to hide their politics to get along with the greater society in our town. Still, I’ve NEVER been a fan of Limbaugh.
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By: Jerome on June 13, 2010
at 12:20 PM
Good morning all and Auntie Jean. As far as computers go, I have had both. My first computer was a used IBM 286 machine back in the early 90’s. My wife’s uncle always upgraded machines every 3 years and we got the hand-me-down Macs that seemed to work okay. Back then the software was fairly limited for Mac users.
My first “serious” computer was an HP Pavilion with the Windows ME operating system that we bought in the winter of 1999. It was a good machine for us. We loaded XP Pro and upgraded the hard drive from 30 to 80GB and used it for the office in 05. It lasted until 08 when the hard drive crashed (nine yrs). Then I ordered a replacement machine online that has the brand name “Power Spec”. It is very fast as was very reasonably priced. I bought an inexpensive ($20) device to plug in that hard drive to extract all the data and loaded it onto the new machine.
When I needed more computers for my business in 2005, we got 2 HP Pavilion Machines that are still fine running Windows XP Pro. The only thing I have upgraded over the years are the monitors. Two years ago we bought 22 inch flat screen monitors.
I also have 4 Toshiba satelite notebooks that are now 4 years old and with no issues. Two I bought had Windows Vista on them, which we dumped and loaded XP Pro onto. My laptop has been to the East coast and back with me several times. All mine are running the XP Pro operating system. I have free versions of anti-virus, anti-spyware, and anti-malware programs that run on a regular basis to catch anything that has gotten past Internet Explorer. The free versions require that you update them occasionally, which takes a couple extra minutes.
The reason most PC users get more spyware and viruses is because those are generally written for PCs and mostly Internet Explorer users. My partner uses Firefox for his browser and has less attacks. Depending on how many links I click on and which sites I frequent usually determines if I pick up any unwanted hitchhikers.
I have CAD programs and lots of multimedia that run just fine on all the machines. It only gets slow when I am running five or six programs at the same time. A newer machine will have more RAM and can easily handle multiple applications running at the same time with no delays.
My brother is my IT guy. Although he lives in Plano and I am in Phoenix, he can connect using remote desktop and do any maintenance or programming from there. He can get to all my 7 machines that are networked. He never liked Vista, but is good with the new Windows 7 OS. He was the one who built my website, too.
I like Best Buy, but have never used the Geek Squad. My brother prefers to order from warehouses and have it shipped to him. If you want to pick his brain, I could put you two in touch. Computer guys, like us pool guys, all have different opinions and preferences. I don’t think there is just one right answer, but one will siut your needs best.
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By: Poolman on June 13, 2010
at 11:41 AM
Jean,
I am a Mac guy. I am glad I got the extended warranty on mine because the 30 below weather we had on the Yukon River Delta did in the hard drive.
By the way, sending a computer from an AK village to Texas and back to the village took 6 weeks.
They are easy to learn too.
America in one picture:
http://wonkette.com/415954/all-of-america-captured-in-single-photograph
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By: JuneauJoe on June 13, 2010
at 8:00 AM
Ok as if you need one more person to weigh in on your puter woes Jean! LOL
But I will just tell you the three MAC book pros I purchased (in the last 4 years) for my kids, all shit the bed within one year of purchase.
They all cost $1400.00 and up. Apple’s warranty is expensive and covers very little and Apple won’t even open the case for less than $400.00.
We did love our MACS while they lasted..LOL but I just couldn’t afford replacing them every year.
We are back to PCs…..Not as fast, a bit more maintenance, but they are still going strong!
I am pretending it is a sunny hot day in Michigan and am going out to enjoy the pool… Hope yinzes enjoy your day.. !
namaste
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By: lori on June 13, 2010
at 7:54 AM
Auntie Jean –
The idea that Macs are more expensive is a mirage. Their purchase price is higher by a wide margin, but my experience (I have eight computers in my home – one PC) has been that the Macs last many years longer, do not get viruses, do not lose data and do not have to be “worked on.” They just work. When you take into account the cost of continuous maintenance, antiviral software, periodic re-installation of the operating system when the machine does its inevitable every-six-months’-slow-as-molasses song and dance, it is an easy choice. Then, if you count your time as worth anything, that seals it. They are perfect for people who are not tech-savvy. If you own a Mac, you get a computer. If you own a pc, you get a computer and a hobby. It’s not for me. I have too much work to do to wrestle with my computer all day.
I think I sent you this link before:
http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/broken_windows
Old, but definitely not outdated.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 13, 2010
at 7:38 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Is there anyone, anywhere living on our planet today who has endured, persevered and triumphed over personal tragedy more than Nelson Mandela?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 12, 2010
at 7:11 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, jsri and Craig,
Thanks guys, for your concerns about my computer problems. I’m a PC’er from the git-go, so going to MAC, well it’s hard to teach an Old Bitch new tricks.
I just thought of a little story apropos to what’s going on in the Gulf, only on a teeny-teeny-weeny scale. A couple of years ago, a company decided to bring in some ferries to run between the islands here in Hawaii. Fine. There was lots of media hype about it. You could take your own car, take the kids with you, the fares were comparable to flying back and forth and renting a car. What a wonderful time you could have!!! Ads were running on TV every five minutes it seemed for weeks ahead of time. However, the more we learned about it…….. I had strong reservations based on personal reasons and experience.
The fine print said it would take four hours from our island to Oahu, as opposed to a 25-minute flight each way plus the usual two hours check-in/security/collect your baggage stuff. Now, way back in history, Kamehameha, the Hawaiian king who unified the islands, (militarily of course), had a tough time subduing our island because the channel between here and Oahu is extremely rough. His outriggers kept capsizing, and the warriors who didn’t drowned, barfed themselves to death with seasickness enroute. (This was my personal objection to the ferry with my long history of motion sickness. I used to barf if I sat in the back seat of the car when I was a kid.)
The Ferry Company invested plenty in ramps to get the cars up and down onto the ferry and with airport check-in/security/type facilities here, on Oahu and Maui. There was a huge Inaugural Ceremony with the governor, various politicians, dignitaries and celebrities on hand for photo ops.
Now there is a long history of conflict between the U.S. Navy out here and the damage their navigation equipment does to the sonar of whales and dolphins, to say nothing of cutting up seals and other sea life with the huge ship propellers. So some environmental groups (them facist-pinko left-wing liberal types, you know) started looking into it. Turned out the Republican Governor had approved the licensing and docking permits to the Ferry Company before they had completed and submitted an Environmental Impact Statement. The company jumped the gun and started up operations without it. The matter wound up in court, but you know how long that sort of thing takes.
There were only a couple of runs from our island to Oahu with most of the people, especially kids, barfing for four hours. It was reported that the ferries were a slippery mess. A whole bunch, and I do mean a whole bunch, of surfers mobilized and blocked the entrance to the harbor on their boards. Those guys are very tame but also usually pretty big with lots of muscles. At one point, the Coast Guard was called in, but there wasn’t much of anything it could do. Hey, the guys were only out there surfing. It’s a free ocean! People lined the harbor, cheering the surfers on. There was no violence and there were no arrests.
The Ferry Company closed down operations on our island but it continued between Oahu and Maui, which has a much calmer channel. Still, once word got around, there wasn’t much of a stampede of people wanting to use the ferry instead of flying. Apparently the military was using the ferry to transport personnel and equipment to and from Oahu and Maui for a while to keep the Ferry Company afloat. (Among other functions, I thought that was what the U. S. Navy was for, especially in peacetime. They have lots and lots of boats at Pearl Harbor, etc. You don’t suppose there was a Military/Industrial Contract with the Ferry Company, do you? We do have the huge Barking Sands Pacific Missile Range Defense Base here on the West Side.)
Anyway, the public sort of lost interest in using the ferry, so the company went under and took their ferries back to somewhere on the mainland where they came from. No great harm done except for some 500 local employees who lost their jobs. The car ramp and facilities are still at Nawiliwili Harbor.
I wonder who cleaned up all the barf.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 12, 2010
at 2:12 PM
Jean:
An Apple store in Hoholulu won’t do you much good. The one on Kauai can be found at this link
http://www.maceasy.com/
I’m not a big fan of Macs. They are expensive and the software is too. I’ve had several and finally went to PC’s.
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By: jsri on June 12, 2010
at 11:50 AM
President Obama’s
Weekly Address 6/12/10
Fair Pay For Doctors & Medicare
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on June 12, 2010
at 10:38 AM
Jean ,
You do have an Apple store
1450 Ala Moana Blvd.
Honolulu, HI 96814 (808) 949-1075
Here is there web site and you can call ahead as well as get classes for many and varied subject matter related to Apple computers and what you may need for your own personal use.
http://www.apple.com/retail/alamoana
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By: Craig on June 12, 2010
at 9:24 AM
JeanΔ ¥ ,
I do not know if you are a PC or Apple person.
Personally for me Apple has been my choice for both work and home life.
If you have one, I would suggest going into an Apple store if you have one there in the islands. Also get there early before crowds or perhaps even call ahead and make an appointment to discuss your needs.
Usually the young staff can answer most of your questions and also demonstrate as well as educate you to the different capabilities of each computer. They also usually have classes you can take at the stores to further your education in Apple.
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By: Craig on June 12, 2010
at 9:18 AM
Thanks Jean. We’re off to the Adirondacks for a few days to celebrate.
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By: jsri on June 12, 2010
at 8:47 AM
Hi jsri,
Happy Anniversary to you and your wife!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 12, 2010
at 12:30 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Thanks so much, gals, for your input on my conputer dilemna. I was thinking Costco or Wal-mart and sending a plane ticket to one of our 15-16 year-old grandsons to come set it up for me. Either one of them could probably do it. They each have laptops, the spoiled-rotten-punk-kids.
I’ll shop around for a new guru. There were guys at the “Computer Hospital” that were great on the phone with help. But I do better with a sit-down, face to face. They also sold computers and all the gear. I’m hoping they will regroup. ‘Dr. Danny’ used to mess with ‘hard disc drives’ (whatever they are), poping them in and out. I’m of the vintage of saving data onto floppy discs. REALLY, REALLY time consuming.
I’m all in favor of vegging out for the summer, until Margaret and Helen come back with a new post or we finish our ‘Grand Menage’ spring house cleaning, whichever comes first.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 11, 2010
at 8:09 PM
Auntie Jean, sorry about your computer guru. May he rest in peace.
Delurker, I so agree with you on many points about your post of June 9, 2010 at 7:14 PM. However, in this instance though, the president should know which country he presides over. Some of us need the theatrics and the cheerleading to make believe something is being done, even if it is just blowing hot air to satisfy the need that something is being done. We got so used to people blowing hot air and lying to us that somebody who is real simply does not cut it for us anymore. Maybe daily press conferences to tell the populace that the government is involved in some kind of way would have satisfied that need. And the more anti-government they are, the more they want the government involvement in this disaster in the Gulf. Go figure!
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By: Easier on June 11, 2010
at 7:38 PM
Just became aware of this blog – love it. You guys are an inspiration. Jon Stewart needs you guys on as guests.
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By: vicki on June 11, 2010
at 4:23 PM
whoops, are should be is.
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By: no one's puppet on June 11, 2010
at 11:24 AM
Jean, the gang are giving you good advice, get a new computer before yours breathes it last.
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By: no one's puppet on June 11, 2010
at 11:21 AM
Happy Friday delurkergurl, and everyone else hangin’ out or visiting the porch. I sure hope Helen gives us another post soon to chew on.
Meanwhile…I had read this last week and ran across it again this morning, so thought I would share.
“Afghans believe US is funding Taliban”
This helps solidify my beliefs. Why should we expect anything to be different today? This does seem to be the way we normally operate. With the economy in shambles, one of the only choices for our youth is the military. It’s not about perserving our freedom anymore, people. Wake up!
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By: Poolman on June 11, 2010
at 11:13 AM
Jean, I’m sorry about losing your good friend and tech expert!
I do think that if your computer is in the sunset of life, you really should get another one and find someone who can transfer your data/records from the old one to the new. If everything on your current computer goes inaccessible, you’ll probably not be happy! Sometimes things can be retrieved from dead computers but it’s more expensive than working with a live one. 🙂
Personally, I loathe Best Buy but I guess they do OK for what they do – sell stuff. However, if it is an option, you’re better off getting someone who will talk to you to enough to be able to recommend what you need, will teach you how to use it, and will be there to support you once your new machine is installed.
Happy Friday, all!
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By: delurkergurl on June 11, 2010
at 9:45 AM
Jean, Kahlil Gibran was born in the Christian Maronite town of Bsharri, then later moved to the United states with his Mum. Although much of his learning came from priests, you can also see his Muslim background in his works, or at least I can.
I am so blessed to be able to spend the entire summer hanging out with some of my best friends (my daughters), soak up what sun Michigan has to offer, and rejuvenate and sooth my soul. Gibran, Dalai Lama, Maya Angelou, always help me do that.
The November elections will be here before I know it… so for now I’ll drown myself in peacefulness! and maybe suck up a margarita or two in the process! LOL
And in the sweetness of friendship let there be laughter and the sharing of pleasures. For in the dew of little things the heart finds its morning and is refreshed.
Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet
namaste
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By: lori on June 11, 2010
at 5:00 AM
Craig –
Great explanation from your friend. Thanks.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 11, 2010
at 4:17 AM
Craig, I don’t only use one source for my news. Al Jazeera reports more accurately than a lot of other sources. And they were reporting from the Mavi Marmara, not ABC, NBC, Fox, or any other national media source. As has been pointed out, if the roles were reversed and Iranian commandos attacked an unarmed Israeli vessel in international waters, it would have instigated a war.
As far as the Palestine-Israel information, it is published by Jews for Justice. Interpret it how you want, but it appears factually accurate. They don’t get into the nitty gritty regarding the Rothschilds and 50 year quest of Zionists to take the land from the indigenous peoples. Of course the Palestinians don’t have the money and influence that Israel has to get their side of the story out, but they were in the land before Israel was established as a nation there. Even when Israel declared itself an independent nation, they were in the minority of the population. And it isn’t Palestine that has been ignoring all the UN’s decrees.
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By: Poolman on June 11, 2010
at 12:30 AM
Poolman,
Regarding the take down of the “peace ship”,
You referenced two articles to read or go to..
One from a very pro Palestinian news organization and the other from a very “left” biased news organization. Thus these are not “main stream” news organizations..and so we are also to believe they have no news agenda?
Not that I want to cherry pick my news..I like a filter…thus..I do read and subscribe to different print journals.
Same for my broadcast news. NBC,CBS,ABC…
and Fox.
I’m just not into Al Jazeera type “news fronts”.
Or disenfranchised Jews with an agenda.
You get what you want to hear or read in some cases.
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By: Craig on June 10, 2010
at 9:49 PM
And so Poolman ..you believe everything Al Jazeera
has as news?
This means, we did not land on the moon.
There were 3 gunmen who killed Kennedy.
President Clinton did not have sex with Lewinsky.
And I’m with the government and here to help.
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By: Craig on June 10, 2010
at 9:26 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Terrible news. My computer guru died suddenly. He was only 60. He always seemed to be in robust health. I don’t know exactly what happened yet. He was a class act. ‘Dr. Danny’ owned and operated the “Computer Hospital”. He was a vanishing breed considering that he was a ‘doctor’ who still made house calls. He was a super nice guy, very knowledgeable about many things and he also knew everything there was to know about computers and the inter-net. A sweetheart. We considered him a good friend as well as a business professional. His private memorial service was held at one of our favorite beaches.
The “Computer Hospital” was, (is?) a very small operation with only 3-4 employees. I don’t know what is going to happen to the business in the interim. So what am I gonna do now? Scratch updating my web-site for sure. What if Petulant Penelope throws another one of her temper tantrums or craps out again? One of my friends on the mainland said to go to ‘Best Buy’ and get the ‘Geek Squad’ to set up a whole new computer for me.
Best Buy? Geek Squad? On our itty-bitty island? Surely she jests. And her name isn’t Shirley. (I stole that line from Leslie Neilson in an old movie.)
So, Bruddah Peas, delurkergurl, jim, are you there?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 10, 2010
at 8:34 PM
I’m sure there will not be a lot of this on the MSM. As those who were on the Mari Marmara were released, these are some of the survivor’s words regarding their experiences. 6 passengers are still listed as missing.
This is some smuggled video footage that was being presented to the UN today. I wonder what, if anything, will come from this. The Israeli propaganda machine has sure twisted this event. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. Unfortunately the bulk of the Israelis and Americans buy into it.
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By: Poolman on June 10, 2010
at 5:49 PM
@Auntie Jean,
Kahlil Gibran – Christian Lebanese-American writer. Sort of like Helen Thomas, except that her parents were immigrants, and she was born here.
Hmmmm…
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By: Rae on June 10, 2010
at 5:00 PM
I try Poolman..I try.
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By: Craig on June 10, 2010
at 4:49 PM
I am one of those who doesn’t give two cents for their company and if it goes bankrupt, maybe this is the way to stop us from using their crude.
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By: oldmanlincoln on June 10, 2010
at 4:17 PM
Wow Craig, thanks. That actually does help make sense of what is going on. That also helps explain the PDF file presentation I looked over that BP had produced and was leaked to the media. It still doesn’t explain why there was no plan for a blowout, though. All the expertise of how to get into a mess, but none regarding getting us out. Typical. Ah yes, not profitable. That’s right. Sounds like the relief well is the only chance of fixing this.
Back to other topics, here is an very informative piece I found regarding the history of the Palestine-Israel conflict.
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By: Poolman on June 10, 2010
at 3:41 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and lori on June 10, 2010
at 5:42 AM
I haven’t read Kahlil Gibran in many, many years. Wasn’t he an Arab (Muslim?) poet right up there with Shakespeare?
Thanks for the reminder of a great read.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 10, 2010
at 3:15 PM
Craig asked: “. This disaster is the first and only one of this magnitude.
Do Ya just shut down the whole Gulf?”
Me: Don’t have to shut down the Gulf. BP’s killing the Gulf even as we all type. . . .river deltas are being contaminated, the dead animal count is only those who have been easily recovered, but scientists have also stated that due to the migratory patterns of many avian species whose paths are over the Gulf coast states, we may never know how many have been/will be affected. The toxins in the oil may take several days/weeks before the bird drops dead. And it’s not a quick death -it’s a slow agonizing death as the body shuts downs. I’m just waiting to see what happens as the spill moves with the gulf stream and contaminates the intercoastal waterways and springs in Florida. . . .
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By: Greytdog on June 10, 2010
at 3:11 PM
Wow, I must be in a good mood today. Craig, you finally lifted something interesting, and also credited another source other than yourself. I’ll be darned!
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By: delurkergurl on June 10, 2010
at 2:12 PM
Jim,
About the current disaster…
From a petroleum engineer friend.
You enquired about the bottom hole pressure at the well bore at 5000 ft subsea.
Here is an explanation of the issue that BP faces………………….
Fun Fact: The water pressure is about 2400 psi At 1 mile deep (assuming an increase in pressure of 1 atmosphere (14 psi) every 33 feet.) A firehose can burst at 1200 psi and take out brick walls.
What’s really happening in the Gulf Oil Spill
I appreciate all of the concern with the disaster in the gulf, but there is an awful lot of ignorance concerning the mechanisms both on ATS as well as the myriad of so-called experts in the MSM. I am posting this thread, since I have been in the oil business for over 30 years working as a petroleum engineer and have actually designed drilled and operated oil & gas wells. This explanation may get too technical, but at least it will expose and dissipate myths concerning this disaster.
Any oil well is drilled starting with a large diameter that at certain points in the process the large diameter holes are cased off with pipe and cemented in place for various reasons and the drilling is continued with smaller diameters until it reaches its objective. I will not go into all of the reasons pipe is run and a smaller diameter is initiated, take my word for it happens & is necessary.
The Horizon Explorer had several strings of pipes until the final 7” pipe was run (probably the 7” was run in 9 5/8” OD casing). The well is blowing out of the annulus between the 7” casing & the 9 5/8” casing. There is no flow inside the 7”. This casing has tools & check valves that prevent anything from flowing into it. The 7” was supposed to be cemented in place, but the well was starting to blow out during this process. So the cement was being diluted with oil & gas where it could not solidify and shut off flow from the reservoir @ 18,000+/- feet below the seafloor.
I will not go into the failure of the blowout preventer. Let is suffice to say it didn’t work as designed and with the flow coming out, the oil & gas flowed up the riser (the pipe that connects the wellhead to the drilling rig) and it was game, set & match.
When the rig sank the riser was still attached to the wellhead and fell over & split in a reported 3 places. It w as reported that 16.5 #/gallon drilling mud was in the riser and the well blew out when it was replaced with seawater. To understand the physics I will try to explain hydrostatic head. The pressure created from a column of fluid in an oil well is identical to the reason you have water pressure out of the tap at the kitchen sink. Water which weighs 8.33 #/gallon is put into a water tower 100’ up in the air. Fresh water has a hydrostatic head equal to .433 psi per foot of height. Therefore you get 43.3 psi at your shower head. If water weighed 16 #/gallon then you would have 86.6 psi in the shower. Similarly as an oil well is drilled there is a fluid known as “drilling mud” that is pumped into the drillpipe, through the drillbit & circulated back to the surface where it is screened to remove the soil dug out of the well. This “mud” is carefully monitored to make sure that if encounters oil or gas it is heavy enough to keep it from flowing into the wellbore. The well in question had to have 16.5 #/gallon mud weight to keep the oil & gas from flowing. The hydrostatic head of the mud of this weight as opposed to fresh water is .86 psi/ft. This means that the pressure in the oil reservoir encountered must be nearly 20,000 psi. ((18,000 + 5000) X .86). As the oil replaced the column of mud that would offset this bottomhole pressure it began flowing faster & faster into the annulus with more & more force as the weight of the 23,000 foot column of fluid became lighter & lighter. When the “company man” (the BP guy in charge) removed 16.5 #/gallon mud from the riser with 8.4 #.gallon sea water he immediately reduced the hydrostatic pressure 2000 psi & it was over.
Now BP is trying to recreate this heavy mud column to offset the bottomhole pressure to balance the well using the “top kill”. A “top kill” entails pumping weighted fluid into the top of the well and forcing the oil & gas back into the reservoir and filling the annular space with heavy mud creating a hydrostatic head equal to the reservoir pressure. The oil & gas are not flowing from a void in the earth it is flowing out of the tiny spaces between sand grains. There is a limit how fast the fluid will reverse & flow back into the formation sand. If the mud is pumped at a higher rate than the formation can absorb then the pressure increases and even the heavy mud may be inadequate to hold back the bottomhole pressure and when the pumps stop the mud starts flowing back. In addition, if the injection pressure gets too high it may exceed the burst strength of the casing in the well. If the casing splits & starts blowing out into the ocean bed the party is over, there is no way to control unless the flow in contained inside pipe.
So the top kill is a precarious balancing act. To further complicate this situation it appears that 90% or more of the mud is not going down the hole, but is being spewed into the ocean. To get more down the hole one needs to pump at higher pressure which means increased rate which means more escapes instead of going down creating increased hydrostatic head to decrease the flow from the reservoir. The junk shot (rubber, golf balls, etc) is not to solve the whole problem; it is only to try to reduce the amount of mud that is escaping from the holes in the riser. They shut down periodically, to measure pressure to estimate how much is going down the hole & how much is being wasted. If the well initially flowed at 5000 psi & after a day of the “top kill” it’s flowing at 4000 psi then we have offset 1000 psi of the oil & gas with mud. If the mud weighs 16.5 #/gallon with a hydrostatic head of .86 psi/ft then we have successfully gotten 1200’ of mud column in the well if we assume only gas in the wellbore. It’s actually not this much.
Having done “top kills” on land with varying degrees of success I can assure that its not easy under any circumstances much less those out here.
A “bottom kill” is vastly easier and is what the relief wells are about.
Unfortunately for that to work the relief well must intersect an 8 ¾” diameter well bore 3 miles underground in the dark. It has been and can be done, but the deep intersection is necessary so that the enormous bottomhole reservoir pressure can be offset with heavy drilling fluid. The drilling mud will then displace the oil and gas from the bottom rather than try to force somewhere it doesn’t want to go. Once the heavy fluid balances the bottomhole pressure then cement can be put into place that once set up will end the need for the heavy fluid.
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By: Craig on June 10, 2010
at 1:47 PM
Jim,
Our autos here and abroad will be on oil for the next 20 years at least. That is unless some Steve Jobs or Buffet type of character gets involved and invents the mass produced electric auto the way Henry Ford brought us the present system.
Here in west Texas wind is as plentiful as oil.
And a lot of ranchers and farmers have both turbines and pumping jacks on their property.
As for energy, my God where I live we have wind farms south of here that stretch for 100 miles and I would say number into the thousands. All producing energy to be sent east to DFW and other parts of SE Texas. Locally one of the major Gin operators has ten on their property. I once heard that these ten story babies are around a million a piece? Correct me if I’m wrong.
I do know there is a local outfit who have been advertising a home system, but I have not looked into it, as I would have to make a long term commitment to get my dollars back and I’m moving within the next 5 years. Plus then there is the homeowners assn. to deal with. Would they let me put up a 20 foot tall pole and wind mill?
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By: Craig on June 10, 2010
at 1:45 PM
Craig –
I have to confess that my take on all this is colored by my prejudices about “climate change” and a whole host of other things, including the fact that I like electricity.
To my eye, there is clearly a lot of oil still available, it’s a relatively cheap source of energy and I think it should be accessed. OTOH I think that we are going to have to transfer SOON to electricity for most of our transportation – for a whole host of Very_Good_Reasons. Tom Friedman makes a marvelous argument for that in “Hot, Flat, Crowded.”
It seems to me that in order to not severely injure the world economy we need to drill and get whatever oil we need during the transition – BUT simultaneously begin the orderly transfer to electric by proper national policy. That means an ever-increasing oil tax, with the money generated going to other energy sources – my personal favorite is nuke.
To my eye ocean drilling is an extremely risky procedure, and I am really not in favor of it if we are just capping the wells. If we are pretty aggressive in this electric changeover policy, our oil needs will drop fairly quickly, which means very limited drilling in the ocean. I am a died-in-the-wool capitalist, but anyone can see what kind of disaster this is.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 10, 2010
at 9:09 AM
PFesser53
I just thought it odd that President OBama, who is Commander in Chief…and Head Dude at the WH would have talked with BP Tony to at least say..hey man I’m pissed and I want to get re-elected and you want your life back..so lets get off center!
OK..what we can agree on that: There are way too many chiefs and ..plenty of Injuns..waiting to fight this thing.
I saw one flow chart of responsibilities and it looked like the LA freeway system.
Pay the people who are out of work. Streamline the procedure for payments..and Put them to work.
Give them the tools,oil booms whatever.
I’m not really for the shut off of deep water drilling at this time. We have a lot of people out of work. This disaster is the first and only one of this magnitude.
Do Ya just shut down the whole Gulf?
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By: Craig on June 10, 2010
at 8:38 AM
lori –
Perhaps your philosopher has to learn gratitude from the ungrateful – himself.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 10, 2010
at 6:12 AM
“I have learnt silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.”
Kahlil Gibran
I have been spending time floating in my pool rereading some of my favorites can you tell? LOL
enjoy the day all..;-)
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By: lori on June 10, 2010
at 5:42 AM
23C, 06/09/10
Hi Congenial Gang,
What’s going on in the world today?
For us, today was a day in the life of a couple of retired American senior, senior citizens living it up in the lap of luxury in Paradise. The young folks say, “Lets roll!” We said, “Lets hobble!” and we went to the big cities of Kapa’a and Lihue. My husband had an epithelial carcinoma removed from the ‘tonsure’ of his pate at the dermatologist’s office. No big deal. He’s had them before, despite sunscreen and wearing caps. He just has that kind of skin. It is certainly not big bad melanoma. But tonight he has another big hole in his head. Medicare and supplemental insurance pays for most of it after the hefty deductibles.
Then we went to take care of a bunch of our spare parts. We got four new tires on our darling little bright mandarin red Mazda 3 named “Zoom-Zoom.” $$$$$$! Our bank account took a big hit with the tires! We haven’t really needed but one car for quite some time and take turns driving her. Next, we got my husband’s hearing aids serviced. They are still under warranty. Same with our next stop at my dentist for servicing my upper and lower partials. They are still under warranty too. Neither hearing aids nor our dental work are covered by insurance. Last time we looked into dental insurance, the premiums were prohibitive and they paid only 35%.
We are OK with the caliber and more or less with the costs of our medical care. It has only been 3 months since the big health care bill was passed so I don’t know what is going to happen when it kicks in all the way. I certainly hope it helps plenty of people who need it more than we do though.
There is one glitch however. The waiting room. We take our books to while away the time. Still, the doctors spend as much time with each of us as we need, so we really shouldn’t mind if they are doing the same with their other patients. We can get through a lot of books that way.
Our dentist just returned from a well-deserved two-week vacation in Thailand. He is a one-man operation, works 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week and has a very efficient staff and office complex with expensive equipment to maintain. He has become our good buddy. He said that Thailand, especially Bangkok, and another place he visited that I can’t pronounce or spell, have calmed down since the recent political upheaval and violence that was so much in the news a few weeks ago. There was a night curfew for the first 4 days he was there but he was sleeping off the jet lag from the time zone differences so the curfew didn’t bother him much. During the day, people were going about their business as usual. Thailand seems to be working through their problems without the expert advice and assistance of the United States.
We dined this evening at Bubbas on their lanai overlooking the ocean. We had their pure cholesterol burgers and chocolate milk shakes. Yummmm!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 10, 2010
at 1:09 AM
Interesting tidbit about Tony Hayward. ‘The chief executive of BP sold £1.4 million of his shares in the fuel giant weeks before the Gulf of Mexico oil spill caused its value to collapse.’
I think BP is merely waiting for that relief well to be finished. I don’t think there has ever been another real plan. There has not been an all-out effort to stop the gushing oil, only theatrics to appease the watching public. They could have been pumping that crude into awaiting tankers weeks after the blowout, like they handled that blowout in Saudi Arabia.
BP’s beach cleanup has reportly been a sham, merely a show for the media. I guess they appointed someone other than the CEO for the boots on the ground effort. He has a more concerned and compassionate demeanor. It will be interesting to see how many faces we go through before this no longer makes news.
Another Gulf oil spill: Well near Deepwater Horizon has leaked since at least April 30
No wonder these guys act like it’s just another day on the job.
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By: Poolman on June 9, 2010
at 8:52 PM
Is it Israeli land or Palestinian land? For a great analysis illustrated by maps, check out the website I’ve listed below. Here’s one quote:
“This map from the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (July 2008) shows how the separation wall traps a quarter million Palestinians in enclaves to the east and west of the main barrier, isolates approximately 500,000 Palestinians who live in East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank and separates over 90 Palestinian communities from their agricultural land. The barrier severely infringes the rights of Palestinians and restricts their access to work, school and medical treatment. ”
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security-council/index-of-countries-on-the-security-council-agenda/israel-palestine-and-the-occupied-territories/land-and-settlement-issues.html
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By: Rae on June 9, 2010
at 8:26 PM
I fan that Delurker !
I think the republican’s have a REAL problem come November. The baggers have pushed them so far right they are going to have a hell of a time appealing in mass.
There is no more incumbent rage this year than any other year when the all three arms are held by the same party. That’s a GOP talking point that the media has picked up and ran with.
If the economy continues to get better we hold all three.
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By: lori on June 9, 2010
at 7:37 PM
I don’t think Obama needs to waste his time having a BP CEO blow sunshine at him. It would be an insult and a waste of time. (Sort of like calling Sarah Palin for oil regulation advice.) He has a job to do, and has lots of people who are responsible for huge things they can’t do well with him in the way (a president doesn’t travel light yanno!).
Even the BP CEO can’t fix this – it’s all up to the engineers. The government agencies can keep the pressure on and work to ensure whatever BP can do gets done.
I remember back in the days when I did server suport for a large company. A major server was down. It was the “worst possible time” and the sky was falling. I was on my knees in the server closet trying to diagnose the problem in order to repair it. An executive stood over me pressuring me to tell him when it would be back up. He was a major distraction. He asked me one too many times when it would be up and I finally looked at him and said I did not know but for sure it wouldn’t be before he left the room. I was sure I’d get fired but instead he left and I had the problem solved in a few minutes – amazing considering how badly my hands were shaking!
What did you all think about the elections this week? Voter rage against the incumbents seems to have been a non-event.
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By: delurkergurl on June 9, 2010
at 7:14 PM
I have heard the CEO of BP speak – he is an idiot!
BP has not told the truth throughout this well blowout.
President Obama needs to talk to everyone but the CEO, including the men on the platform when it burned. President Obama should bring charges against the CEO and others who ignored safety.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 9, 2010
at 6:53 PM
Craig –
I have to fuss at you on this one. You know, this is a bloody disaster. Nobody is happy; nobody wanted this to happen. The fishermen and everybody who makes his living from the sea are having their lives destroyed. The BP employees are trying like hell to clean up the mess and the locals are yelling at them. jesus, they’re just employees; it’s not their fault! I think there were corners cut in this operation, but also sure that even the top brass at BP are mortified. The whole company may go under, and after all, a company is not a person – it is a lot of people working to make a living, with a few at the top pulling the strings. If BP fails, a lot more people will lose the ability to feed their families.
As for Obama – people need to get off his back. He has no expertise in this; hell, he doesn’t know what to do! And he can’t win – if he rages, he’s a pissed-off black man; if he is cool, he is too professorial. Fact is that a lot of people just hate him, and lots just because – well, you know why.
These people at BP IMHO don’t need people putting on more pressure; it just makes them more likely to make a mistake. Believe me, they are well-motivated already! Obama needs to sit down with the head of BP and say, look – you guy gotta get this thing stopped. Tell me some way the US govt. can help. We have lots of big equipment. Then, after it’s over, we just might kick your ass.
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By: PFesser53 on June 9, 2010
at 6:52 PM
So tonight on national ABC news it is revealed that in the first 50 days of the disaster in the Gulf..President Obama did not once speak to the CEO of BP.
Now is that the “hands on” type of President he professed to be?
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By: Craig on June 9, 2010
at 5:52 PM
It’s OK Greytdog. I love to read your posts.
In case I was not clear, my comment was about the hypocrisy of a prolonged smear for one comment, largely fueled by people who get their “journalism” from people like Rush and who probably even agree with the spirit of what she said. It all seems very odd.
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By: delurkergurl on June 9, 2010
at 8:44 AM
OMG… BRILLIANT!!!! I love, love, LOVE this… thanks for sharing all your wisdom. Please run for President, or host SNL… I’ll vote for either! 😉
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By: Carol on June 9, 2010
at 8:43 AM
I apologize for the long rant. Not for the substance, just the length.
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By: Greytdog on June 9, 2010
at 8:35 AM
HT violated her own journalism rule – keep your opinion to yourself in order to preserve your objectivity. We’re so used to pundits now that we forget journalism needs objectivity not subjectivity in order to write the story that deals strictly with certifiable facts and events. I’ve always liked HT – thought she was/is one of the gutsier journos aroung – and shows that women can be solid, factual journalists who can command respect. Without HT, Amanpour wouldn’t be on any network as a hardhitting investigative journalist. She’d be doing garden parties and covering social debuts.
HT’s remarks don’t surprise me actually. Just as the antiimmigrant, anti-ethnic, pro-WhiteAmerican voices have become front and center in this country, I am not at all surprised that this includes the anti-Jew sentiment. On the progressive side, there is a knee jerk response that you must, without question, support whichever group the progressives deem as “underdog”. Likewise, in the RW spectrum, it is determined that a person must, without question, support Israel (because without Israel, Rapture ain’t a-gonna come). . .
Israel holds a special place for me. BUT that doesn’t mean I uphold her without question. In fact, because Israel is special to me, I am angered and torn by what is going on. Israel is better than her leaders – Bibi is nothing more than a bully who is trying to prove he’s a better man, a better soldier a better everything than his brother who helped lead the commando raid to free the hostages from Amin. So there’s that “bush dynamic” at play. Olmert is/was/always will be a typical politician – guarding his own backside. (Sounds so American doesn’t it?)
The Palestinians themselves are rocked with stupid also. Abbas is an ineffectual leader who, like other PLO leaders before him, is more interested in lining his pockets and maintaining power in his small pond. He couldn’t care less about the people he leads. And Hamas – Hamas has learned the lessons of Mao well – winning hearts and minds. And that’s the image of Hamas progressives in the US love – this “democratically elected” terrorist group. & the fact that Hamas was elected by ballot doesn’t make it a democratic election BTW. It just means Hamas is getting more and more canny as they evolve.
Do I support the blockade? No. Do I think Israel has the right to secure national borders? Hell yes. Do I think Israel has the right to inspect transports by air, land, or sea of anything that is coming into its territory? Yes again. And despite what progressives wish to believe, Gaze remains Israeli territory. It lies within israeli boundaries – and Gaza is not a sovereign nation recognized by the international community.
Do I think the IDF screwed up? Oh yeah. Big time. Do I think the flotilla was for humanitarian reasons? I think some of the folks there sincerely believe they were participating in such an event – but if anyone knows Israeli history, EXODUS 1947 was the same op – with basically the same outcome. Use a humanitarian means as cover for other less humanitarian reasons. And this is not just limited to the MidEast – we’ve done too. Do you really think the cries of “CIA involvement” are mere fantasies? There is always a basis of truth in that – always.
But back to HT. I am pissed she quit. That’s not HT. That’s bullshit. I would rather she was back in front of the WH press corps because when all is said and done HT is the only journalist there. And she is willing to ask the hard questions, to push for substantial answers and to call anyone out for lack of follow up. The WH press corps is so embedded into saving their own “exclusive image”, that they hope we don’t notice the lack of journalistic rigor and integrity. . .
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By: Greytdog on June 9, 2010
at 8:33 AM
I haven’t followed the Helen Thomas thing closely, with so much other real news going on. I have heard the sound byte but not the context.
Does Helen have a long history of making intentionally inflammatory, racial or prejudicial remarks? As far as I know, this was one incident and it resulted in an apology and the abrupt, unceremonious end of her career. I don’t really understand why she is still being talked about. Rush Limbaugh built a lucrative career on being unapologetically inflammatory, racial and prejudiced. Why should her comments be any bigger of a deal than his?
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By: delurkergurl on June 9, 2010
at 8:04 AM
I do not think she meant just settlements.
Listen to her remarks about sending “them”
back to where “they” came from… Germany and Poland.
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By: Craig on June 8, 2010
at 9:29 PM
@Greytdog – interesting little article you pointed me to, but still not on point. Are you saying you think HT was seriously suggesting that the state of Israel should be un-done, and everyone sent home to their countries of origin? That seems absurdly impossible to me. What are we supposed to do, all return home to Africa? HT is an intelligent woman, and although it’s hard for the very sensitive and the overly-literal to understand, I think she was using hyperbole to make her point. And her point was that there is something very wrong about the settlements and the blockade. Can’t we just discuss that without making it all into a new holocaust?
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By: Rae on June 8, 2010
at 8:31 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I have just a few comments to make on the Helen Thomas donnybrook. I cannot get inside the head of anyone else any more than anybody else can. However, I wonder if her flip remark was a sarcastic and disgusted allusion to the new Arizona law of sending people back to where they came from. Perhaps few people were quick enough and sharp enough to pick up on that possible aspect.
Naturally, other people had to jump right in and bring up her cultural heritage, so the bullshit has gotten knee deep; just as the eternal problems in the Middle East and their eternal solutions are and have been knee deep in bullshit right along all around.
She did apologize for her offensive remark and as we now know she has resigned. This is an ignominious end to a decades-long distinguished and trailblazing career for women in what was and still is a predominately male dominated profession.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 8, 2010
at 7:26 PM
I don’t know about everyone else..
But I would like to see the national networks stop running the BP “PR” ads and instead have BP
pay the people for their jobs and livelihood lost.
WE already know a daily status on the BP efforts to end the disaster. The networks ought to turn that money over to the communities as a show of goodwill, rather than Katie Couric repeating e-mailed questions about the events and efforts of BP.
This to me then would be a real story.
Once the flow is stopped..the networks will go away and the people and area will be forgotten.
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By: Craig on June 8, 2010
at 5:36 PM
PFesser53
Did you see this? Those toe brakes will get you every time.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/wwii.biplane.flips/?hpt=T3
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By: jsri on June 8, 2010
at 3:42 PM
YES!!!!!
Helen Philpot to fill Helen Thomas’front row seat!!!!!
Can we start some kind of campaign???
Count me in!
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By: Stephanie R. on June 8, 2010
at 3:28 PM
Today is the 43 year anniversary of the Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty also in international waters and in broad daylight. Hmmmm. I wonder if they run that on the MSM.
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By: Poolman on June 8, 2010
at 12:00 PM
As far as the oil in the gulf. The oil itself is bad enough, but BP added the illegal toxic chemical dispersant to the mix. This makes it much more dangerous to all forms of life. This could be coming inland with this season’s hurricanes. Oh boy!
And look, now we have squares around our smiley faces. 😀
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By: Poolman on June 8, 2010
at 10:49 AM
Here is a post and video by Ken O’Keefe who was a passenger on the Mavi Marmara.
Although all phones were jammed and cameras confiscated by Israel, this video got out during the raid on the Mavi Marmara, as Al Jazeera was reporting from the ship.
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By: Poolman on June 8, 2010
at 10:43 AM
Paul Jay has a pretty good article with a couple recent video interviews linked titled: IN DEFENSE OF HELEN THOMAS
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By: Poolman on June 8, 2010
at 9:22 AM
The WHCA decides on who gets the seat. Plenty have been unhappy with Thomas in the front because in their opinion she is not a journalist but a columnist (i.e. paper pundit). WHCA wants only journalists in those seats – which, IMO, means every single seat in the WH press room should be empty. Not a single journalist among the crowd – except Mark Knoller.
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By: Greytdog on June 8, 2010
at 8:27 AM
@Rae here’s why. http://bit.ly/aVsBAC
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By: Greytdog on June 8, 2010
at 8:25 AM
Auntie Jean –
I haven’t googled it up (that’s too easy), but in a play called “Hatfields and McCoys” – which has been running for probably fifty years now at the Amphitheatre in Grandview, WV – Anderson Hatfield (Devil Anse) and Randall McCoy acknowledge the futility and stupidity of war and become friends at the end. There’s a lesson there somewhere…
Anderson’s grand-daughter became my fourth-grade teacher. She just died about six months ago. I can confirm that , as my cousin (and her ex son-in-law) said, they’re all crazy as big-assed birds.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 8, 2010
at 6:52 AM
“Could Fox News inherit Helen Thomas’s seat?”
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/06/could_fox_news_inherit_helen_t.html
via Talking Points Memo this morning.
Greg Sargent of The Plum Line said, “For Fox to inherit her seat would be a pretty dispiriting coda to the whole affair. As Andrew Sullivan noted today, why not give it to a blogger, who’d be far more likely to keep up Thomas’s legacy of making people of both parties feel uncomfortable at that podium?”
I VOTE FOR HELEN PHILPOT TO BE THE BLOGGER TO FILL THIS SEAT!!!! I believe she is one of the very few who would also be willing to ask those pesky, difficult questions.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 8, 2010
at 5:52 AM
I was really sorry to see this morning, that Helen Thomas is retiring. I can understand her reasons, sometimes it just get to be too much to stand and by 90 yrs, having witnessed soooo much craziness, maybe she needs a rest.
I’m mostly sorry for us, though. Limbaugh, Beck, and what’s his name, are still out there spewing God knows what, and now we don’t have anyone around who’s really willing to ask some difficult questions in our interests.
Also a sad day for women in “news” jobs. So many are just blond fluff. Helen is a serious person and a serious thorn in the side of most presidents. And they finally got rid of her. Been working on that for many years. They must be dancing in the halls.
And I still miss Molly Ivins. Besides our own Helen Philpot, there are about 2 women from Texas I can respect. (I freely admit my prejudice)
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 8, 2010
at 5:41 AM
More hate speech from the left. Long on insults, very short on those pesky things called “facts”!
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By: Patrick on June 8, 2010
at 5:27 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Sigh. Time for another history lesson I guess.
Theocracy:
There were two half-brothers, Isaac and Ishmael; same father, different mothers. There were issues about their legitimacy and/or illegitimacy, lots of jealousy and sibling rivalry, so a family feud ensued. Their descendants kept it going.
Later there were two half-sisters, Elizabeth and Mary; same father, different mothers. Their legitimacy and/or illegitimacy caused another family feud kept going by their descendants also, with plenty of jealousy and sibling rivalry going around there too.
Democracy:
There are two brothers, George and Barack. Two different fathers and two different mothers. However, if we were to trace their genealogies back far enough, no doubt we could find a very close kinship between them. There is not supposed to be any theocratic stuff going on in a democracy, but the ideological family feud continues.
Maybe George and Barack are descended from Adam and Eve. Or maybe they are descended from one-celled critters such as amoebas. Which family trees? I don’t know. Just call me a casuist.
One problem with amoebas is that they are asexual. They reproduce by pinching themselves in half and separating into two amoebas. (Ouch!) They have no sex life so that’s not much fun.
It seems to me it is way, way past time to settle these family feuds once and for all. How? I don’t know. Just call me a casuist.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
P. S. does anyone know whatever became of the Hatfields and the McCoys?
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 8, 2010
at 1:37 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and GrandmaKatie,
GrandmaKatie,
Where are you? We miss you.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 8, 2010
at 12:54 AM
By the way, I must share: here in Northern Michigan it was a fabulous, beautiful day; blue above and blue below (Lake Michigan was glorious); high in the low 60s. It’s 54 now. Flowers are blooming, lettuce is poking out. It’s worth living through the winter for this kind of spring.
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By: Rae on June 7, 2010
at 8:43 PM
@Greytdog – why is it that when someone criticizes an action of Israel, somehow that is translated to “destroy Israel and all Jews”?
Good grief. May we stipulate that we don’t want to destroy Israel or Jews, and now discuss rationally the blockade?
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By: Rae on June 7, 2010
at 8:40 PM
Hello Scout, another glorious 109 right now. That 122 was in 1990. I missed that one but enjoyed the 121 in 95.
What a year! Now we got gas blowing up in Texas. First coal, then oil, now gas. Hmmmmm. I hope we are getting the message.
Weird crop damage happening in the Mississippi River bottoms. Anyone near there experiencing this? My wife says we had a similar event in Phoenix in the mid 90’s, but I don’t remember it.
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By: Poolman on June 7, 2010
at 4:25 PM
I don’t know how the commodity crops are doing, but I was able to seed my veg garden in April – unheard of in Minneapolis! We’re eating lettuce and radishes already.
It isn’t that long ago that the Twin Cities area was changed from zone 4 to zone 5, and this is much warmer and earlier than that. An article I read recently said if this keeps going, we’ll no longer have ‘zone envy”. Talk about putting a positive spin on it.
I wish that were the only likely consequence. Maybe when the local sportsmen realize that walleye can’t survive in zone 6, there’ll be some action. After all, who cares about polar bears and ice caps – but these are walleye, dammit!
On the plus side, it turns out that Japanese jumping carp are edible. At least going after fish that can give you a concussion seems like more of a fair fight.
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By: judith on June 7, 2010
at 3:05 PM
The hottest I can remember here in Phx was in 1993 or thereabouts. The temps reached 122F and they had to close down the airport because the planes were sticking to the melted tar on the runway.
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By: Scout on June 7, 2010
at 2:53 PM
Poolman on June 6, 2010 at 10:56 PM
Poolman. I can appreciate your Phoenix heat. We were there once when the temp was 112F and the rearview mirror on our rental car fell off the windshield.
But our record was 47C (117F) 30 years ago in Luxor Egypt. You could barely find relief anywhere.
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By: jsri on June 7, 2010
at 1:31 PM
It’s always so wonderful to see a new post! Thank you! Both of you!
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By: Sherri on June 7, 2010
at 1:09 PM
And while you were freezing last winter in Virginia, the Southern Hemisphere was broiling hot. Funny how people forget there are two hemispheres.
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By: Anonymous on June 7, 2010
at 12:01 PM
Hey, I am a believer!!!!! Count me in on that global warming thing. We just had the worst winter here in 150 years with snow 60 inches deep at Dulles Airport. The first blizzard came in December, a bit before Christmas. That had just barely thawed away when we were hit back to back with the other two. Snow was still piled up in different places in our area during a time in March when we had spring temps. My gardens burst – and I do mean that – into bloom in February after the last blizzard went bye-bye. I have flowers that are genetically small that are now two to three feet tall! The Iris bloomed almost two months ago and fizzed out. I, too, used to see Iris in bloom around Memorial Day. Commodity crops are usually planted in spring as soon as the ground is dry enough to support a tractor. Anyone know how those are doing?
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on June 7, 2010
at 10:22 AM
You gotta love this blog. You never know where an offhand comment will take you.
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By: jsri on June 7, 2010
at 7:16 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri on June 5 at 2:20PM,
Thank you, jsri, for your explanation and links in answer to my requests. You lost me with the one on Quantum Mechanics. It was a little over my pay grade and I got bogged down in the middle of gobbledegook.
My understanding of the ‘Uncertainty Principal’ is that measurement can never be totally accurate because an object or process MAY be altered by the very process of being measured. This is particularly applicable to the Social Sciences. (Statistics? Polls?) A perfect example of this is, a group of Naturalists wanted to observe the behavior of a chimpanzee in its natural habitat. They put up a ‘blind’ with a peephole to watch the chimp. The next thing they knew was, the only thing they could see in the peephole was the eyeball of the chimp. He wanted to see what THEY were up to.
The link to Galileo’s bio was easier for me to follow. Conservative thinking of the day didn’t much like Copernicus either. Of course, we all know that Theology is the sole provenance of all ABSOLUTES and therefore all wisdom.
A little nostalgia regarding your adventures on Rte. 95. We knew it well when we lived and froze in Suburban Philly for 12 years. We used to hop in the car and go down, thaw out and visit dear friends in Mississippi on a long weekend to play cards until 2-3-4AM; a wild and crazy game called “Hand and Foot”. We would take 95 south and then scoot over to 81 and on down. One hitch. My husband is a spelunker wanna-be. Coming and going, we always had to take side trips to go tramp around in some damn cave. The Appalachian Mountains are riddled with them. Caves freak me out!!! I always expect a bat to come screeching into my hair.
There was one big cave with an underground lake complete with boats to take tourists around for a small charge. I always felt it was the River Styx with Charon at the helm.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 7, 2010
at 12:47 AM
Hello Honolulu Sally, Auntie Jean, jsri, HRH sofia EQ, and everyone else.
We had a lovely 109 degrees today in Phoenix. It took awhile, but the warm weather finally got here. I spent this warm weekend outside doing much needed yardwork. Plenty of fluids and slow steady work with a big sombrero. I love it. with 6 percent humidity it is a dry heat.
The baseball story was great. My grandmother was a fairly outspoken old gal. Her favorite curse word was BALLS! “Oh, balls!” she would exclaim. It used to be quite funny the reaction she would get in public.
I’ll not get into the Israel debate right now. Maybe later. I have much stuff related to that topic. I will say the Palestinians have suffered the greatest in that relationship.
I agree HRH sofia, the things people will read and comment on that does not qualify as important or even news is crazy. And we wonder why there is so much “junk” on TV. That junk is what most folks consider important or entertaining. It is a sad, sad state of affairs.
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By: Poolman on June 6, 2010
at 10:56 PM
Jean,
Your baseball story reminds me of something my good friend Patricia says whenever I talk about balls.
“Balls?! Balls?!” said the Queen. “If I had balls, I’d be King!”
My Israel story: My Stepfather loved to travel with my Mom – they went on trips all the time while they were healthy and able. On one of their trips to the Middle East, I made him Tollhouse chocolate chip cookies because that was his favorite. He had them with him as they arrived in Israel. The Israeli customs official looked at his cookies, told him “we have cookies you can buy here”, and confiscated them.
To this day, my Stepfather cusses about Israelis and has never forgiven them for taking away his cookies.
The tension in the Middle East is very sad and frightening. If a hard headed old man like my Stepfather cannot forgive a nation over a little bag of cookies, how difficult it will be for people on either side of the divide to live in peace.
Even though we have our differences, we do not live with the hate and long suffering of those people.
We are so blessed here in America – the evidence of that is having idiots like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh being able to spout off their lies and bigotry, and having Jon Stewart, Margaret and Helen to counterbalance with wit and laughter.
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By: Honolulu Sally on June 6, 2010
at 10:30 PM
Jsri, No, I saw that movie. What I read was a history of the world type of book. It was definitely NOT Exodus. Though, I must admit it might have been written by someone such as Howard Zinn. I’ll have to go back to the library and see what they have.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 6, 2010
at 6:41 PM
JeanΔ ¥ on June 6, 2010 at 3:34 PM
Abbott & Costello were more understandable
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By: jsri on June 6, 2010
at 3:50 PM
HRH sofia EQ on June 6, 2010 at 7:48 AM
You are perhaps referring to Leon Uris, author of Exodus,
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By: jsri on June 6, 2010
at 3:45 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Maybe it’s time to lighten up a bit. This was a joke (?) going around when I was in college, probably before many of you were born.
This is also why understanding between people is so difficult, even when you speak more or less same language.
While visiting in the United States, an Englishman went to see his first ever baseball game. He said, a nice American sitting next to him at the game explained it all to him. When he returned to Great Britain, he was sitting around with his cronies in their Cricket Club and told them all about it.
“It is a splendid game! Well, there is this meadow. Out in the meadow is a square with four Pillows, one on each of the corners. In the middle is a hillock. A man steps up beside ‘First Pillow’ with a Willow. A man on the hillock hurls a Sphere at the man with the Willow. The man strikes the Sphere out into the meadow with the Willow, throws down the Willow and runs as fast as he can to ‘First Pillow’ while other men chase him.
Another man steps up beside ‘First Pillow’ and the man on the hillock hurls the Sphere at him. The man with the Willow strikes the Sphere out into the meadow, throws down his Willow and runs to ‘First Pillow’ while the first man on ‘First Pillow’ runs to ‘Second Pillow’. A man out in the meadow catches the Sphere and runs, trying to touch the man running between ‘First Pillow’ and ‘Second Pillow’. He doesn’t succeed. The running man falls down and slides into ‘Second Pillow’. He is pronounced ‘Safe’ by the Presiding Official. The man on the ground at ‘Second Pillow’ has gotten his face and uniform all dirty in the process.
Again, a third man with a Willow strides up to ‘First Pillow’, the man on the hillock hurls the Sphere at him and the third man strikes it out into the meadow with his Willow. He then throws down his Willow, runs to ‘First Pillow’ while the man on ‘First Pillow’ runs to ‘Second Pillow’ and the man on ‘Second Pillow’ runs to ‘Third Pillow’. Once again a different man out in the meadow catches the Sphere but is confused as to whether to throw it to one of his compatriots between ‘First Pillow’, ‘Second Pillow’ or ‘Third Pillow’. He doesn’t succeed in time. Meanwhile the men on ‘First Pillow’, ‘Second Pillow’ and ‘Third Pillow’ just wait. I guess they are tired from so much running and are resting. Well, after all, the Presiding Official said they were ‘Safe’.
Then a fourth man steps up to ‘First Pillow’ with a Willow. The man on the hillock throws the Sphere and that fourth man just stands there. The man on the hillock twice throws it again and the fourth man just stands there. Again, the man on the hillock throws the Sphere and the fourth man gently lays down his Willow and strolls, mind you, just strolls to ‘First’ Pillow’.
Well, I certainly didn’t understand that at all so I turned to the nice American sitting next to me and asked him; “The first three men struck the Sphere out into the Meadow with the Willow and ran to ‘First Pillow’ then to ’Second Pillow’ and then on to ‘Third Pillow’. Why did the fourth man not even try to strike any of the Spheres and then laid down his Willow and nonchalantly strolled to ‘First Pillow’?”
The American explained, “The fourth man has four balls.”
So I said, “Well, I do suppose that might tend to slow him up a bit.”
Have any of you ever been to a Cricket match?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 6, 2010
at 3:34 PM
Ok thanks for the confirmation HRH… I thought that is what she was referring to.
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By: lori on June 6, 2010
at 3:19 PM
what?
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 6, 2010
at 12:35 PM
and another PS,
“Israel Gaza Attack: Flotilla Raid Videos” got 523 comments and “Netanyahu Defends Flotilla Raid, Gaza Blockade” recieved 5,666 comments. Less than 25% of the comments Helens article got. More people felt a need to comment on Helen’s words than on the story which spawned the comment. Next we’ll hear that the 666 part of the Netanyahu comments is a significant number and MEANS something.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 6, 2010
at 11:05 AM
Helen said the Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine”, you can see and hear her say these words on the clip at Huff Post.
She continued “remember these people are occupied and it’s their land. It’s not Germany” etc.
If you actually listen to the clip instead of the idiots talking ABOUT the clip, you should be able to understand she was talking about the settlements currently building for German, Polish, and many Americans. Seems like Israel is building itself a shield, just like the American and European interest did. She is not talking about the Jews in Israel.
I find it very interesting that this article received over 15,000 comments. “Warlord Building Afghan Empire With U.S. Taxpayer Aid” received 42 comments. and “Mark Haines Makes Sexist Comment On CNBC, Refuses to….. received 3,543 comments.
What does that tell you about the clamorers interests?
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 6, 2010
at 10:22 AM
Also Greytdog I agree the US should not have supported-pushed free elections in Palestine, they were not ready. That was yet another example of the US forcing our will onto another nation… with good intention… but still wrong… We reaped what we sowed. Now we are in a pickle with Hamas.
All that being said I think Benjamin Netanyahu is a scary clone of Bush/Cheney and is leading his country down the path of a full blown Middle east war. BTW I think Sharron was just as bad if not worse.
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By: lori on June 6, 2010
at 10:13 AM
Right Greytdog I agree… again.. I don’t want to try and put myself in Helen’s head but I thought she was talking about current events.
The people who leave their own country.. Germany,Poland, US etc (TODAY) to establish new settlements should go back home… That may not have been HT’s intent…I don’t know… but that is the way I took her statements.
I do know I support no new settlements AND I support Israels right to denfend herself .. however denying a collective people of basic needs, as some think they are doing, is against the GC.. IMHO
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By: lori on June 6, 2010
at 9:58 AM
I have problems with Israel, and I understand some of the ideological divide between conservative supporters and liberal detractors. But human nature being what it is, Israel needs its own home land. History, including Muslim history is a story of periodic Jewish ethnic cleansing in cruel ways.
Not only did Helen Thomas repeat the script of Muslim extremists, she revealed her ignorance. As an alleged journalist, she should know better. If she is an antisemitic racist, mabey not.
Shortly after Israel’s war of Independence after Arabs rejected the UN partition plan which would have created the first ever Palestanian state, about 850,000 Jews fled or were expelled from Arab and other Muslim countries. Most settled in Israel.
They and their descendants are roughly half of the Israeli population. Israel also worked hard to rescue Ethiopian and Yememi Jews who’s lives were in danger.
As of 2008, according to indexmundi.com/israeldemographics, 76.4% of Israel is Jewish. 67.1% were born in Israel. 22.6% came from Europe or America.
With the possible future evolution of Iraq, Israel is the only functioning democracy in the neighborhood.
Had Thomas worked for Fox or told blacks or Muslims to go home, she would be barricaded in her house by now, and you all know it. From what I have read, conservative web sites are dumping on her and some Republicans demand that she be fired.
So, why don’t liberals care? Has toleration of anti-semetism become a tenant of the left? Thomas deserves our calumny. Once the unacceptable gains respectability, the statements are no longer out of bounds.
White House operatives tried to throw Fox out of the press pool. When will they throw Thomas from the briefing room?
I don’t think she should be fired any more than Don Imus was or Bill Maher had to lose his network show, Politically Incorrect, because of a comment. She deserves our condemnation because she is only sorry she was caught. She must think others believe as she does to say something like that to a video camera. But she had a right to say what she did.
I only scrolled up as far as lori’s post, and I nearly heaved. I’m not ready to stomach what might have gone before.
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By: James on June 6, 2010
at 9:56 AM
I support, as does Peace Now, a moratorium on the building of settlements. The West Bank & Golan Hgts settlements are nothing more than provocations – and the majority of those settlers are American and Russian. As for HT’s comments, perhaps she forgot that 6 millions Jews once called Germany and Poland home, except Germany and Poland thought of them as less than pond scum. When the SS St Louis attempted to find safe haven for its 936 Jewish passengers in 1939, Americans were quite vocal in their opposition to this. Cuba likewise did not want the Jews.The ship was later forced to return to Germany where 254 passengers would meet their deaths at the hands of Nazi Germany.
And Perhaps we’ve all forgotten – because time moves on – the pictures of the Palestinians rejoicing and celebrating in the streets after 9/11? Yes, Hamas is a democratically elected entity of the Palestinian people – but that just means, IMO, that the Palestinian people have no interest in peace when they elect a terrorist group to represent them. Would we withdraw from Afghanistan if the Taliban were elected democratically to lead that country? Would we then say see the Taliban really do care about the Afghan people. . . after all the people elected them democratically. It’s an interesting conundrum.
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By: Greytdog on June 6, 2010
at 9:42 AM
I agree with you alaskapi people will use Helen’s words to further their agenda of framing this administration/progressives/democrats as anti Israel pro terrorists.
But again I say… I heard Helen reiterating the administrations stance of which Israel has agreed, that there is should be a moritirium on new settlements. The people who come from Germany, Poland, United States to establish new settlements should go back home… I think this is pretty consistant with our path to peace in the Middle East ? Am I wrong
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By: lori on June 6, 2010
at 9:26 AM
Auntie Jean?
Dug this up from 12/3/2008 11:41PM by Whirled Peas:
Quoted from Maven on December 3, 2008
at 6:57 pm
“I liked Barbara’s comment (at around 12:30 pm) which referred to regulars of this blog as the “Piece of Pie Club”.
Does that make us all “wedgies”?
(Sorry, I got off topic there.)”
~ BRILLIANT !!!
I’m a Wedgie,
You’re a Wedgie,
Wouldn’t you like to be a Wedgie TOO?
M&H PoPC 2008®
Later in that thread, Whirled displayed the icon for us to use. Δ (I don’t bring much to the porch, but that day, I did.)
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By: Maven Δ on June 6, 2010
at 9:19 AM
Helen Thomas’ remarks have been used by far too many as grist for whatever POV folks are putting forward. It seems likely that this venerable reporter gave into a personal expression of outrage, nothing more, nothing less.
Israel is a country. As a country, it has been making stupid decisions lately.Decisions which harm it’s own interests as well as cause suffering to Palestinians.
Progressives need to remember, however, that Arab interests , going back to Nasser, have used Palestinaians as a political football with which to torment Israel- including turning their own backs on Palestinians and letting them suffer to prove stupid points.
There are no hands in the middle east clean of Palestinian blood…
Americans , professing righteousness, who want Jews to leave Israel certainly don’t expect themselves to leave America to return the land to the first Americans…
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By: alaskapi on June 6, 2010
at 9:02 AM
Greytdog –
When I compare the accomplishment of the world’s Jews vs everybody else – especially those around them – I am a little reluctant to rip them off the land where they live (Israel). David Brooks had a pretty good summary article in the Times:
They are NOT going anywhere; Ahmed_dinner_jacket , or whatever his name is, needs to understand that. They will not be driven into the sea or driven out of Israel, even if it means nuclear holocaust in that area. I know a lot of Jews, and it ain’t gonna happen. They are smart, determined and unafraid.
I had an Iranian engineering professor in the ‘seventies who just hated Israel and took every opportunity to say something unpleasant about it. (Of course you could get away with that kind of stuff then.) One of my classmates, Andy, was an old country boy and devout Christian; he delighted in pulling this guy’s chain.
“You shouldn’t talk like that; after all they ARE god’s chosen people.”
Ol’ prof would lose his mind. “Dey are NOT GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE! DEY ARE NOT!!!!!”
Quietly: “Oh yes they arrrrre, too….” &c. Of course Andy – now a PhD/MD knew exactly what he was doing. Great fun…
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By: PFesser53 on June 6, 2010
at 8:34 AM
at the risk of sticking my toes into waters I know just enough about to be dangerous.
Wasn’t Helen speaking to the “settlements”… not the entire state of Israel? When I listened to her statement that is what I heard…..
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By: lori on June 6, 2010
at 8:34 AM
Greytdog
I read some history of the Middle East back about 20 years ago. I didn’t learn much about it in school and I was curious. I don’t remember who the author was or even the name of the book but I remember it covered the end of WWII and a lot more. I came away with the feeling that Israel was to be a buffer between the European and American interests and the Arabs. They were set up. I don’t think I’ve heard anything since to change that view.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 6, 2010
at 7:48 AM
So you see there is a huge ideological gulf between progressives and conservatives in this country. The only bridge of agreement seems to be in their ultimate goal – the destruction of Israel and the Jews. Interesting, isn’t it?
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By: Greytdog on June 6, 2010
at 7:19 AM
And as for the conservatives in this country, they support Israel because they think Israel is a hawkish nation – that Israel shares their love of conquest and destruction. But if you’ve ever spent time in Israel (and not as a tourist visiting Catholic owned sites of importance to three major religions) you know that Israel is hawkish about its security because they have no alternative. Neocons for the most part are also Christian – christian conservatives who support Israel do so with a double-edged sword – they want Israel to be establish as Jewish nation because then and only then will Jesus return, smite the Jews, and reward the Christians. That’s theological terrorism IMO – just like the Taliban.
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By: Greytdog on June 6, 2010
at 7:18 AM
What I find distressing about the Helen Thomas remarks is how many people, people who I thought were think-for-yourself-adults, people I thought I knew, have come out and agreed with Helen. Their solution: deport the jews from israel. Return the land to the Arabs. It’s deja vu all over again. And I find it very unsettling to see & feel the overwhelming hatred of progressives against Israel. Which is interesting because until Desert Storm most people in this country couldn’t even find Israel on the map but now they’re all experts and their solution: The Final Solution.
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By: Greytdog on June 6, 2010
at 7:12 AM
pfesser June 6, 2010
at 5:40 AM
“If global warming is the result of human activity, we can deal with that, although at enormous cost – and it’s not just money; it will mean severely damaging the world economy and in many places that will mean human lives.”
And I ask you, what do you think the cost will be to the world economy and all those human lives when we just deny there’s a problem and go on our merry way, burning fossil fuels, forests, garbage and all those things we do which MIGHT be contributing to global warming?
Back in the 70’s there was a movement to increase the mileage per gallon on our cars. As I understand it, had we continued in our quest at that time, we would be using a lot less oil now. (yes, I’m lumping our dependence on oil with global warming, really two issues)
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 6, 2010
at 6:31 AM
Sorry – the two above “anonymous” are from me. I’m in a different email account and forgot to put my email address.
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By: pfesser53 on June 6, 2010
at 6:01 AM
jsri –
No, I’m not an A&E. I built an airplane in the ‘nineties and flew it for about ten years, and am appalled at the quality of most A&Es’ work. At one annual inspection I had them insist on replacing the compass; when I was flying back to my home base I realized they had failed to adjust the new one properly and it was 40 degrees off. If I hadn’t had a GPS I would have ended up in another state. Then there was the time they failed to tighten the alternator and it almost fell off the airplane – in flight.
No, I do all my own work and then have an A&E inspect it and approve. I love that old girl; I just hope I can always fly and maintain her in the manner she deserves.
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By: Anonymous on June 6, 2010
at 5:58 AM
HRH Sofia –
“Krakatoa was a “natural”event. If it were to erupt again tomorrow, should we just sit on our thumbs and do nothing to ameliorate the drop in temperature if some smart kids came up with an idea? When we put our minds to it, we can change all kinds of things that are “natural.” ”
It hasn’t anything to do with being natural, other than the fact that dealing with something that weighs about 6 X 10^24 kg is an enormous job. It is nearly impossible to wrap one’s brain around just how big the earth is and how puny we humans are. If global warming is the result of human activity, we can deal with that, although at enormous cost – and it’s not just money; it will mean severely damaging the world economy and in many places that will mean human lives. If it is a natural earth phenomenon, that is like the proverbial pissing in a hurricane; trying to change that is futile.
How “unnatural” is going to the moon to bring back spoonfuls of moon dirt?
see above.
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By: Anonymous on June 6, 2010
at 5:40 AM
ooops sorry that post ^ should have been directed to Rae.. 😉
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By: lori on June 6, 2010
at 5:28 AM
*was NOT so easy
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By: lori on June 6, 2010
at 5:11 AM
HRH…. You gotta love Helen! She calls em as she see em, kinda like an other old broad we read… wink wink… right?
Doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree with her point of view you gotta admire someone who has accomplished so much in a time that was so easy for women to do so. She smashed all kinds of glass ceiling so others could follow. WTG Helen!
She has given more than one president a run for their money! Remember when Bush took away her front row seat and stuck her in the cloak closet? heheheheheh me thinks Ari has some sour grapes he has been fermenting in for a while..
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By: lori on June 6, 2010
at 5:01 AM
PFesser53 on June 4, 2010 at 7:56 PM
You said you were working on a Cessna 182. Are you an A&E?
Back in the mid 1970’s I owned a 1/5 fraction of a 182G. Unfortunately the engine crapped out at about 1200 hrs and we sold it. I probably got fewer than 100 hrs out of it. I don’t even remember its reg #.
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By: jsri on June 5, 2010
at 8:16 PM
p.s. I almost always start worrying when the main concern is for the MONEY.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 5, 2010
at 6:37 PM
Helen Thomas was using hyperbole to make a point. She is American, of Lebanese heritage, I believe. Let’s not get caught up in Ari Fleischer’s red herring — focusing on her comment takes us away from what we should be discussing, the blockade. No way making an intemperate comment is worse than building a wall around more than a million people, separating them from food, employment, and medical supplies, not to mention their own land (per the UN).
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By: Rae on June 5, 2010
at 6:22 PM
PFesser53
Krakatoa was a “natural”event. If it were to erupt again tomorrow, should we just sit on our thumbs and do nothing to ameliorate the drop in temperature if some smart kids came up with an idea? When we put our minds to it, we can change all kinds of things that are “natural.” How “unnatural” is going to the moon to bring back spoonfuls of moon dirt?
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 5, 2010
at 6:21 PM
Joy Nitzel on June 5, 2010 said
“Mike Coffman was a swine in our state politics, trying to wipe the names of newly registered hispanics from the voting rolls before the 2008 elections. He got caught and yet he won the seat to go to Washington from the state of Colorado. How disgusting and how telling about the voters in his district”.
I lived in Aspen from 1971-1973. Then we moved back to the Northeast. For many years I felt we made the wrong move. Then, in the 1980’s (yes, when Ronnie was king and the Mrs was reading tea leaves, at least not tea bags), when Colorado politics took a turn for the worst, I finally realized we made exactly the right choice. Colorado Blue, I’m really sorry you have to deal with all that s..t.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 5, 2010
at 6:13 PM
She is Lebanese.
All I know is what I saw on national news Friday evening then again on FOX sat. am.
I really thought it incredulous that someone with
her experience would speak her mind in front of a camera.
Then when exposed..apologizes..and says..
Like well, that’s not how I really feel.
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By: Craig on June 5, 2010
at 6:12 PM
Craig –
I thought Helen Thomas was Jewish??? Is that right? What is her background? I know she used to drive GWB pretty crazy…
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By: PFesser53 on June 5, 2010
at 4:21 PM
jsri –
While the math is a bit daunting, as I understand the Uncertainty Principle, it is basically pretty simple: for a particle (wave) you cannot know both the momentum and position to some arbitrary (very high) precision level. As you know one more precisely, you by necessity know less about the other.
Interesting concept. I think about it a lot when I am investigating things, and I find a kind of parallel: the more dogmatic I am that I know something, the more likely I am at least partially wrong. That makes some people nervous, but I find it fascinating. The dogmatists hate that kind of uncertaintyy, hence I’m usually not very welcome in church.
I used to teach radiology residents (MD’s in training to be radiologists) about how to approach a diagnostic problem. That, of course is what they do: solve mysteries. I always told them to imagine an inverted tree, with the trunk up in the air and branches at the bottom. You want to start at the trunk (most general) and go as far toward the answer (specific) as you can, but be aware that as you diverge down each limb and branch, you are going past limbs whose branches may contain a better answer. My final advice to those going to take their oral boards is, “Don’t try to get the exact answer; by being very, very specific you may go too far down the wrong branch and be wrong; always stay above the level that contains the right answer. When you get as far as you can, stop.”
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By: PFesser53 on June 5, 2010
at 4:07 PM
I’m curious what peoples take is to White House Press reporter Helen Thomas’s comments about
Jews and that they should go back to Germany or Hungary and let the Palestinians have their homeland back?
News reporters on Fox thought that the 89 year old has probably worn out her time on the front row of the press room at the White House.
……………..
89-year-old White House correspondent Helen Thomas, when asked about the Middle East last week outside the Jewish Heritage Celebration, said Jews should “Get the hell out of Palestine.” Ex-Bush propaganda minister Ari Fleischer wants her fired. She has since apologized.
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By: Craig on June 5, 2010
at 3:40 PM
Autie Jean, I must have missed the tread where you were threatened. The Feds came to you based on something you said on this blog? That is unbelievable! I definitely will go back and look it up. How sad is it for somebody to have done that? This is a place where people debate ideas in an open forum. I might not like what you say but to take things to that extreme is just beyond belief. Glad everything was resolved without any harm coming to you.
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By: Easier on June 5, 2010
at 3:36 PM
How low can this guy go?
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/now-glenn-beck-loves-american-nazis
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By: thymeCher on June 5, 2010
at 2:51 PM
By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 5, 2010 at 1:41 AM
Jean, you sure can find the blanks in my educational background. When I was in HS, I’m not sure the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle was ever discussed or even known by my teachers. And I can’t recall coming across it in college either.
That was more than a half century ago but now I think my Grandson in tenth grade could come up with at least a basic understanding that escapes me. In fact, I don’t think there is a “simple” explanation without understanding Quantum Mechanics and very advanced Math. But you might try this link on for size. See if it works for you.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/basics-of-quantum-mechanics-for-dummies.html
As for Galileo, I went to a Catholic HS and Galileo (as well as Darwin) was never discussed except in negative terms. But here is a pretty good bio of Galileo that is easy to read.
http://inventors.about.com/od/gstartinventors/a/Galileo_Galilei_3.htm
Don’t get too tired running back and forth on your little island. A couple days ago I had a 375 mile round trip for our local blood bank, part of which was along US Route 95 through Connecticut where 4 lane traffic is packed as close together as a mall parking lot but traveling at 70 miles per hour. A split second of inattention could be a disaster. And then the thunder showers slowed the traffic to 65.
My wife thinks I enjoy the competition.
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By: jsri on June 5, 2010
at 2:20 PM
And thanks to all for the Avatar info.
I really do appreciate your time and efforts for my benefit.
Craig/troll
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By: Craig on June 5, 2010
at 1:56 PM
Colorado Blue
“Shit rolls downhill, folks and we have found its’ resting place………..right at the foot of one Dick Cheney. His “top secret” energy meetings allowed for the oil industry to self-regulate and LIE.”
I’m impressed and what else was said at the secret meeting you attended? Pray tell……
Gregorio
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By: Gregorio on June 5, 2010
at 1:47 PM
HRH Sofia –
If I may, I would like to respond to your obviously very serious concerns:
“My $,02 about global warming… It seems clear that our climate IS changing.”
I believe it certainly has been getting warmer; I have seen it in my lifetime, although there is now evidence that the earth’s atmosphere (and that’s what we are really talking about here) is now in a *cooling* phase.
” I find it difficult to understand why anyone would believe that our climate is NOT getting warmer.”
I don’t personally know anyone who says that. The question I believe is not whether the atmosphere is warmer (it is) but, a)which proportion of that warming is a consequence of human activity and which is natural, b)to what degree can we affect it if we put out maximum effort, and c)what will the cost of that effort be?
“It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference whether this is a “natural” change or a manmade change. If we have the power to slow down the changes, for our collective good, why would anyone NOT do everything in their power to slow it down.”
I believe it does matter, because if warming is not significantly the result of man’s activity, then ceasing that activity will not stop it; if making these changes had no cost attached then it wouldn’t be an issue, but in point of fact, it DOES, and the cost is crippling.
Interesting debate at Oxford on this subject:
Part reads:
An Hon. Member interrupted: “And your reference is?” Lord Monckton replied: “IPCC, 2007, chapter 10, box 10.2.” [cheers]. He concluded that shutting down the entire global economy for a whole year, with all the death, destruction, disaster, disease and distress that that would cause, would forestall just 4.7 ln(390/388) = 0.024 Kelvin or Celsius degrees of “global warming”, so that total economic shutdown for 41 years would prevent just 1 K of warming. Adaptation as and if necessary would be orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective.
Notice the part about adaptation.
“So, instead of concentrating on denying man’s part in the problem, how about concentrating on what we can all do to help. The cause matters a lot less than finding a solution to FIX THE PROBLEM”
Denial is appropriate if you didn’t do it.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 5, 2010
at 12:56 PM
What an angry poor soul Colorado blue seems to be
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By: Carlos on June 5, 2010
at 12:23 PM
By: Jean on July 14, 2009
at 1:40 AM
We visited the Greek island of Kos, (also spelled Cos), the birthplace of Hippocrates. It is a lovely, tiny island in the Aegean Sea. If you are interested, you could Google it. It is in the Dodecanese chain of little islands between Greece and Turkey, although it is much closer to Turkey than to Greece.
That’s where I pinched off my three seed pods from one of the hundreds of olive trees on the island. I wrapped them in Kleenex, put them in the toe of a shoe and smuggled them into the
U. S. (Please don’t tell anyone they are contraband.)
They are growing nicely in our Pitiful Little Patch out back. I don’t know when or if we will ever get olives. We are tropical, 19 degrees latitude. I looked up the latitude of Kos. It is about 37 degrees so it’s quite a bit farther north. The parent trees are used to a colder climate with a dormant season. We may not get fruit. We can’t grow apples for the same reason.
What the heck. If I get into a beef with anyone, (especially if they are bigger than I am), I can always extend a peace offering of a Genuine Greek Olive Branch!
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By: Anonymous on June 5, 2010
at 10:41 AM
Shit rolls downhill, folks and we have found its’ resting place………..right at the foot of one Dick Cheney. His “top secret” energy meetings allowed for the oil industry to self-regulate and LIE. Surprise, Surprise. If there had been oversight in the oil industry, this HUMAN caused disaster in the Gulf might have at least had a way to be handled immediately. A plan for clean up would have had to be in place before BP was issued permits to dig. Cutting corners and arrogance by the corporatists is par for the course.
The same is true for the mine disaster in West Virginia………..interesting that those investigations seem to have stopped or been swept under the rug. You grease enough palms, the problems goes away.
BP is absolutely responsible for the Gulf disaster. They have admitted it and their poor owner “wants his life back”. They are spending millions on ad campaigns trying to spruce up their image. And rightwing, nutjob radio sides with the corporations screaming that BP should be left alone. Rightwing nutbag congressional members are even calling it an “act of God”……….
BP lied from the get-go and they are still lying. Unfortunately, because of 30 years of de-regulation and corporatist politics, we have no safety valves, no way that our military has the expertise and had no choice but to rely on a bunch of lying sacks. Hopefully, this will change.
In the last several days, BP has contributed millions to the warchests of the people who will be sitting on the committee to decide about capping the amount of damages BP must pay………..Representative Mike Coffman of Colorado is one such person who accepted the giant donation and sits on
that committee.
Mike Coffman was a swine in our state politics, trying to wipe the names of newly registered hispanics from the voting rolls before the 2008 elections. He got caught and yet he won the seat to go to Washington from the state of Colorado. How disgusting and how telling about the voters in his district.
Perhaps the response to the Gulf disaster was not quick enough by our President, but how refreshing that he admitted it.
Thirty years of Reaganomics and eight years of buffoonery and corporatist arrogance have put us where we are today. The Republican party wants nothing more than for their buddies in the corporations to rule…….Facism at it finest.
Do not be fooled, idiot Republican Teabaggers, “no more taxes” does not mean for YOU. It means no taxes for the top 2% and more taxes for the middle class. You people scream about wanting less government until a disaster happens and then you are the first to scream that government isn’t doing enough. You take your Medicare and social security checks, you run for government positions and scream that you hate the government.
Your precious god, Ronald Reagan raised taxes on the middle class 19 times during his presidency. How soon you forget.
Roland Reagan gave amnesty to the illegal workers in the 1980s. John McCain and John Kyle did nothing about it because Republicans want cheap labor for their corporatist pals………..so shut your piehole Jan Brewer !!!!! Crime is down 40% in your state and in all border states. You, Jan Brewer, are desperately trying to be elected governor of AZ. You were appointed, not elected and in those 18 months you have ruined an entire state.
Republicans hate the middle class. Rapublicans care only about themselves and how much money they can take.
Republicans continue to be the party of NO!!!!!!!!!! AND PALIN IS STILL AN IDIOT !!
Colorado Blue
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By: Joy Nitzel on June 5, 2010
at 10:15 AM
President Obama’s
Weekly Address 6/5/10
from Grand Isle, Louisiana
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on June 5, 2010
at 9:09 AM
HRH, good point.
Fix the problem, not the blame.
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By: Rae on June 5, 2010
at 7:57 AM
My $,02 about global warming… It seems clear that our climate IS changing. Here in the Northeast, everything is blooming (including fruit trees grown as cash crops) 2 weeks earlier than they did 50 years ago. Back in the 50’s when I was much younger, I picked bearded iris to take to the cemetary on Memorial Day. This year they began blooming near the beginning of May. I was told a story about the new car an old guy bought back in the 40’s. He drove in across the ice from the store on the east bank of the Hudson River to his home on the west bank of the river. My Co-Grandmother who lives in Oregon told me that this year all the perenials which usually bloom over the course of a month, bloomed within a single week. This year we are experiencing many July type days at the end of June. I work at garden landscaping so I’m very aware of this and find it difficult to understand why anyone would believe that our climate is NOT getting warmer.
These changes affect our part of the world’s economy.
It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference whether this is a “natural” change or a manmade change. If we have the power to slow down the changes, for our collective good, why would anyone NOT do everything in their power to slow it down.
I admit I’ve only done some small changes in my life. I hang the clothes outside to dry, I reuse plastic bags but mostly try to avoid them completely, I drive as little as possible, I recycle everything I can, I just say NO to buying things for the sake of shopping, my thermostat is set for 61 day/50 night (we wear sweaters ), been doing all this and more for the past 30 years.. There are many more things each of us can do to help slow down the warming. I would love to hear about other ideas to use less of the stuff that might increase global warming.
So, instead of concentrating on denying man’s part in the problem, how about concentrating on what we can all do to help. The cause matters a lot less than finding a solution to FIX THE PROBLEM.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on June 5, 2010
at 7:27 AM
For anyone that would like to help Jack Conway defeat Rand Paul in the KY senate race here is a link that can get you started. I am sure as election day gets closer (end of summer) his campaign manager will pull out all the stops with letter and editorial writing campaigns. Social networking etc.. but for now just keep informed and make some calls.. 😉 Thanks!
http://jackconway.org/
BTW Paul is leading in polls at this time so we have a lot of work to do!
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By: lori on June 5, 2010
at 6:39 AM
I know Huff reported on these stats earlier this week but I think it is worthy of repeating. Remember these aren’t national campaigns!
We need publicly funded elections NOW!
__________________________________________
Republican gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman continued her record-shattering spending streak this spring, burning through $33.8 million in about two months, according to a campaign finance statement filed Thursday.
That amount brings the billionaire candidate’s spending total to more than $80 million, with $68 million of it coming from her own personal wealth.
_________________________________________
and if that doesn’t convince you:
_________________________________________
With three weeks remaining in the close GOP race to replace Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), candidate Carly Fiorina has put an additional $1.1 million of her personal funds into her campaign.
When combined with the $2.5-million loan she made to her campaign last fall, the former Hewlett-Packard chief executive has now lent $3.6 million of her own money to the effort, according to her spokeswoman.
links available upon request.. 😉
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By: lori on June 5, 2010
at 6:23 AM
Auntie Jean –
Among my many other faults, I used to do a little amateur astronomy. It’s actually pretty interesting: the great gas planets – especially Jupiter and Saturn – are constantly doing that very thing. My understanding is that, without their filtering out the really big stuff, we would have been pounded to the extent that life could never have evolved here.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 5, 2010
at 5:48 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and jsri,
Sure, jsri, I’ll write you a letter of recommendation for your application to any university of your choice. Would you do me a favor though?
You are really better qualified than I am anyway so would you please explain the “Principal of Uncertainty” that all students learn in Science 101? Any science course. While you are at it, how about a mini-bio of Galileo too.
Did anybody catch NBC’s Brian Williams’ news this evening? As we all know, there is nothing but terrible news on anymore. As they like to sign off with a bit of good news, this was the best that he could come up with.
An astronomer reported that an enormous asteroid coming into our solar system slammed into Jupiter today. As Williams said, Jupiter took one for the team.
I am really pooped again and tomorrow is shaping up to be a big day. We are off to Kapaa and Lihue (60 miles round trip) and out to dinner.
So nighty-night everyone,
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 5, 2010
at 1:41 AM
HI Congenial Gang, lori and delurkergurl,
The threat made real was by an “Anomyous Person”, so I don’t really know, but I don’t travel in circles with people who do things like that. No matter. Still, let’s not forget, that that particular troll, by his own signed accounts, is a walking casualty of the Vietnam War along with countless other veterans of that war, the Gulf War, the Iraq War, the Afghan War and the What’s Next War?
Please, no more wars and no more dead or wounded veterans.
Delurkergurl, LOVE your new avatar! To get your wedgie back, Bruddah Whirled Peas is your man. He is the one who dreamed it up in the first place.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 5, 2010
at 1:17 AM
Jean, yw, I have your back ..;-) .. and I too am pleased all ended well and I understand your reluctance to add anymore credibility to the story as necessary. However, I think it’s an important story to be told (or at least not forgotten). Jim was defending James and at the same time “dissing” us because we porch dwellers are soooooooooo narrow minded that we chased poor whittle old James away…
Just settin the record straight..
Now if Jim still wants to defend James, so be it, that gives us a little insight into Jim’s character does it?
Oh and btw the threat was not posted by anonymous… he signed his name the first time.
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By: lori on June 5, 2010
at 12:35 AM
Jim, great links. Gryphen has many fans here.
Jean, I didn’t realize the threats were ever made real. I’m glad it worked out OK in the end! What a jerk.
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By: delurkergurl on June 4, 2010
at 9:18 PM
Well. Lots of silly old talk goin’ on here.
PFesser53, you trotted out the old Horatio Alger saw. Surely nobody believes that anymore. Sure, “from great risk comes great reward.” Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, nearly everyone who is rich today started out that way. And the big winners (founders of YouTube or Facebook maybe?) got there more through luck than anything else. Where’s the big risk in cutting class to whip up a little computer application in your Harvard dorm room?
While we’re arguing about flat tax vs. graduated tax, and haggling over what really counts as income, corporations, owned by people with lots of money to invest, are exploiting tax advantages, yes, but more importantly they’re using up natural resources that, it could be argued, belong to all of us. Are they paying their fair share REALLY? Let’s see, what’s it costing us hard-working taxpayers to clean up the Superfund sites? What about those rivers, those forests, the grazing ranges, …?
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By: Rae on June 4, 2010
at 9:06 PM
PFesser53 on June 4, 2010 at 7:56 PM
Shaun Lunt followed and lived his dream to the fullest. Too bad it was so short. His photos are spectacular. Think of all else he might have accomplished.
But airplanes can be dangerous and even the best pilots make mistakes. I have a friend who got impatient one night and took off in a Beech 18 too close to a DC-8, got into wake turbulence. rolled inverted and spread the airplane all over the runway. Miraculously, he survived the explosion and fire. only to later suffer an air embolism when an oxygen mask failed at high altitude. He was one of the most instinctive pilots I ever flew with but I was not beyond calling him out when he was getting too close to my comfort zone
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By: jsri on June 4, 2010
at 9:04 PM
JuneauJoe –
I get reports from the NTSB, and Alaska leads the nation in aircraft accidents. No small wonder; another friend lives in Anchorage and he tells me that there are more light planes registered in Anchorage than the 48 lower states combined. Some of the “villages” would be completely isolated without aviation.
The “moose turn” is very commonly implicated in Alaskan aviation fatalities. Basically, somebody yells, “There’s a moose!” and the pilot turns sharply back to see. The airplane loses airspeed and stall/spins. The SuperCub is the most common bush plane in Alaska and, while it has phenomenal performance, it is well-known to have a “vicious” stall. A stall/spin at low altitude is just unrecoverable.
This is the guy I believe who trained Shaun Lunt:
http://cubdriver749er.com/
I’m saving my pennies; I hope to fly with him. Maybe I’ll see you up there one of these days.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 4, 2010
at 8:55 PM
Similar story Jean, I knew a man who was shacked up with his Canadian girlfriend, when she eloped with someone else, he turned her in for being in the country illegally.
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By: Anonymous on June 4, 2010
at 8:53 PM
Pfesser: Those are amazing shots.
I can see why he died though. I got to fly in a 6 seater a 12 seater and commercial jets in AK. The weather can be brutal and comes up fast. The wind slices and dices a lot.
The pilots are pretty amazing. Even the commercial planes are great at hard landings and flying in and out of blizzards.
Thanks for the pictures. Those are amazing.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 8:32 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Oh, for heaven’s sake!
Here is my version. Sometime way back before Oct. 07, 2009, an “Anonymous Person” sic’d the feds in Honolulu on me with a cut-and-paste-job of one of my comments here at M&H’s. I don’t remember when I posted it. Ancient as I am, I occasionally suffer from CRS (Can’t Remember Shit), also known in polite circles as a ‘Senior Moment’. I’m not about to go rummaging around in M&H’s archives to find the exact one. (I already know the gist of it, since I wrote it.)
Once they took the time and trouble to track me down, I voluntarily cooperated with the Federal Authorities. They did not break out their rubber hoses and did not water board me. They behaved in a most courteous and professional manner by letter and phone. A local Inspector on our island came out to review the ‘Evidence’ that was in plain sight. It was certainly no secret. Everyone we knew and anyone on the inter net at M&H’s that was interested enough to read it, knew about it.
The local Inspector took a great deal of interest in the ‘Evidence’, left it in place and said he would forward his report to Honolulu. The whole interview and incident while he was here took no more than 15 minutes. Of course all the preliminaries had been already been done by either letter or phone.
I was absolved of any and all Criminal Activity. As he was leaving, my husband and I stood and talked in the front doorway for a while about his daughter who is attending a prominent university on the East Coast. When he departed, we were all three the best of buddies.
Our hard earned Taxpayer Dollars at work at the Federal Level.
End of story.
Now back to my ‘Grand Menage’, spring housecleaning. Maybe I can finish the diningroom today.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 4, 2010
at 8:14 PM
JJ –
I have an old Cessna Skylane (’62 model) that I spend most of my life working on. My great desire is to come up to Alaska and learn a little bush flying in a SuperCub or Husky.
Have you seen the site, Due Up?
http://shaunlunt.typepad.com/
This guy was an anesthesiologist in CA somewhere and really lived life. Bicyclist, motorcycle rider, pilot, photographer extraordinaire. Unfortunately he killed himself in AK, doing the infamous “moose turn” in high winds. SuperCubs have great performance, but won’t tolerate ham-handed flying.
Tell me what you think of those pictures.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 4, 2010
at 7:56 PM
I check out Gryphen’s blog regularly, along with Mudflats and Shannyn Moores. I do not know him, I was supposed to meet up with Jean of Mudflats once but missed it.
I do appreciate their work. I got to see Sarah as Gov.
What a piece of work she is. Fame, fortune and stupid = Sarah.
Sarah was terrible for the villages.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 7:46 PM
Here’s another friend of mine:
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/
He has been after Sarah Palin’s sorry arse since she first surfaced. He lives in Anchorage. Smart and funny. He’s getting a little weary now and sometimes goes off the deep end.
Palin absolutely loathes him. Good job, Gryphen!
Jim
Oh, I just realized JJ linked to the same site. Do you know Gryphen? He and Shannyn Moore make Queen Esther’s life a misery…LOL
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By: PFesser53 on June 4, 2010
at 7:34 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and lori on June 4, 2010
at 10:10 AM,
Thank you for saying I am sweet , lori. Yes I am old, 80 years at that. A lady? I can be a lady in polite company. In rude and obnoxious company, not so much with the hat and white gloves anymore.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 4, 2010
at 7:07 PM
Well said Gramiam.
Trolls – Sarah Palin is looking for you on her site!
Something about creepy – wheepy.
To Trolls: Glen Beck is looking for you. Seems he is talking to GOD or Martin Luther King – you would be totally interested.
You are a bit borish on this site. You might consider going to where your craziness is appreciated.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 6:28 PM
Gramiam,
And your posts are short and to the point.
Well done.
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By: Craig on June 4, 2010
at 6:19 PM
Remarks like
“Kinda like some of the people do for some of Jean’s rants and harangues regarding everything from historical Oahu to nuclear fusion. ”
are why we don’t like you and call you a troll, Craig. Jean is an intelligent, elderly woman, rich with experience, insight and wisdom. You, sir, are a troll.
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By: Gramiam on June 4, 2010
at 6:08 PM
delurkergurl, sorry you lost your Δ, but I like your bright and pretty new look.
“Turns out crime in Arizona is down and border security is way up, …” – JuneauJoe at 1:43 PM
Like you say,
“It’s all about votes. . . . We have plenty of law enforcement.”
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By: Poolman on June 4, 2010
at 4:13 PM
OK, I finally registered. I lost my Δ but gained an avatar.
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By: delurkergurl on June 4, 2010
at 3:33 PM
see. I misspelled my email and got a new avatar. Electronic magic is great isn’t it?
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By: jsri on June 4, 2010
at 3:26 PM
avatars are pretty simple
When you first come on H&M’s site and ID yourself with an appropriate title and include an email address, you are assigned a unique avatar. But if you fail to include your ID or emai or if you misspell one of them. you get assigned a default avatar. This default avatar also shows up if you post anonymously or if, (as happened to me once). when my computer shot off an incomplete message when I intended only to shut it down.
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By: jsri on June 4, 2010
at 3:24 PM
What a way to be Annon…?
Can I have some ice cream with that pie?
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By: Craig on June 4, 2010
at 3:23 PM
Sarah Palin and a new endorsement!
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2010/06/sarah-palin-endoreses-terry-branstad-in.html
Palin is toxic!
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 3:07 PM
If you don’t include an email address, you get the same quilt.
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By: poolman on June 4, 2010
at 3:01 PM
I did not come here to be a toxic identity.
I was pointed here by one of your own..left liberal thinkers ..that is.
If I wanted to go to a place where everybody agreed then I guess I could.
However the playground here is interesting.
It’s inhabitants mutating from day to day.
Some people just do not want to argue their point because they are right and just in their thinking and can not be swayed.
Now why do people tune into Bill Maher?
To hear different views. If they don’t lie it they can change channels.
If you don’t like my viewpoint then fine. I don’t expect you to. But here is whats interesting.
It’s always the same few who condemn me..Not the whole of the site..just a few.
“but if I really wasn’t up for hearing his views it was pretty easy to scroll by them since they stood out in length, LOL.” Delurker Girl Δ
Kinda like some of the people do for some of Jean’s rants and harangues regarding everything from historical Oahu to nuclear fusion.
Now if someone could just explain avatars to me.
I thought they were identity markers for each participant.
Are they not unique?
It is interesting in going back in time I have found the exact same avatar connected to the following:
By: Helen on July 4, 2007
at 11:26 AM
JMC on October 19, 2008
By: Anonymous on October 16, 2008
at 4:49 PM
at 11:02 AM
By: Angel’s Mom on September 10, 2009
at 11:43 PM
By: K2inSR on September 11, 2009
at 4:55 PM
By: Carlos on June 3, 2010
at 11:01 PM
By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 4, 2010
at 1:33 PM
Have a good weekend all…
and I mean all……………..
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By: Craig on June 4, 2010
at 2:56 PM
Scroll baby scroll past the troll.
Hope everyone is well!
Dear M&H, I come to drop off another Palin dog & pony show nugget.
‘Sarah Palin Blames Environmentalists For Gulf Oil Disaster’
http://huff.to/9kHuAs
Dear Sarah, I get that you try your best to stir your blind and drooling followers into a frenzy every time you fart.
The Ixtoc disaster was in shallow waters, that argument simply doesn’t hold. Oil companies’s greed for the promise of larger more productive fields is what drove them farther out, not the environmentalists. Try again dumb ass.
JuneauJoe, yes there is another spill, this one right by you. Why only UK news?
The ‘other’ spill BP will be keeping quiet
http://bit.ly/cCmh9C
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By: palinshutup on June 4, 2010
at 2:44 PM
PFesser53, that site has some real gems. I loved the Alaska post. LMAO. Yep, that tends to convert ’em.
I’ll have piece of cherry pie with a scoop of vanilla bean, Delurker Girl.
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By: Poolman on June 4, 2010
at 2:40 PM
JuneauJoe, are you OK today? You don’t sound like your usual self. Can we round up a slice for you?
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 4, 2010
at 2:22 PM
Poolman –
Along the same vein, here is a site a friend of mine owns.
http://www.accelerateglobalwarming.com/
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By: PFesser53 on June 4, 2010
at 1:56 PM
Turns out crime in Arizona is down
and border security is way up, so the “secure
the border” mantra being parroted by Brewer and her friends at FOX has much more to do with empty
… election-year rhetoric than reality.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 1:43 PM
Where did you lift that from, Craig?
Please read and understand HoneyJoRumples very clear explanation about why the Arizona law is unfair to AMERICAN CITIZENS like her. It’s not about the illegal alien’s rights. It’s the American citizen’s constitutional rights that the law will tromp on.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 4, 2010
at 1:33 PM
Poolman
Make that “will be uninhabitable”
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By: jsri on June 4, 2010
at 1:30 PM
Delurker Girl Δ on June 4, 2010 at 10:49 AM
The trolls are to H&M’s website what global warming is to the future of the earth. Gradually taking over and destroying it by creating more heat than positive action.
Poolman on June 4, 2010 at 11:48 AM
The earth will survive until our sun becomes a supernova but will be inhabitable to humans in the near future if we continue on our exploitive course.
PFesser53 on June 4, 2010 at 11:17 AM
You missed the point. Limited time has to do with advanced age not lack of evidence. I find your final statement about respect for the planet hard to believe.
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By: jsri on June 4, 2010
at 1:29 PM
On a sillier note, this was on the site I linked.
If We Had Some Global Warming… 🙂
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By: Poolman on June 4, 2010
at 1:28 PM
Recently large demonstrations have taken place
Across the country protesting the fact that Congress Is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
Certain people are angry that
The US might protect its own
Borders, might make it harder
To sneak into this country and,
Once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand
The thinking behind these protests.
Let’s say I break into your house.
Let’s say that when you discover
Me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, ‘No! I like it here.
It’s better than my house. I’ve made all
The beds and washed the
Dishes and did the laundry
And swept the floors. I’ve
Done all the things you don’t
Like to do. I’m hard-working
And honest
(except for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to feed me
You are Required to add me to your family’s insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
(my husband will do all of your yard work because
He is also hard-working and honest, except for that
Breaking in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out,
I will call my friends who will picket your
House carrying signs that proclaim my
RIGHT to be there.
It’s only fair, after all, because you have
A nicer house than I do, and I’m just
Trying to better myself. I’m a hard-working
And honest, person, except for well,
You know, I did break into your house
And what a deal it is for me!!!
I live in your house, contributing only a
Fraction of the cost of my keep, and
There is nothing you can do about it
Without being accused of cold,
Uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and
Bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn
MY LANGUAGE!!! So you can
Communicate with me.
Why can’t people see how ridiculous
This is?
Only in America .
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By: Craig on June 4, 2010
at 1:18 PM
Imagine: Racists are behind the AZ ‘show me your papers’ legislation! Who would have thought?
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/foxheads-freak-out-when-rep-linda-sa
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 12:46 PM
Poolman – you are correct, Money is the issue!
Pictures of birds in the Gulf mess.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/37507
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 12:22 PM
Global Warming studies in the North show warmth well beyond any computer projection.
It is man caused. I have talked to the scientists who measure the warming along the yukon River and Bristol Bay, AK. i have spent time and talked to the yupik natives and they talk of the warming and the effects on their lives. The Yukon River has very little permafrost which is a significant change in 30 years.
We are kidding ourselves to think man has little impact on global warming. We play games and minimize Global Warming to the peril of our grandchildren.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 12:20 PM
I’m okay with climate change and can’t deny we do have an impact on this planet’s health. We have disrupted ecosystems and changed much of the face of the planet including its atmosphere, undoubtedly. But the computer generated models and various data provided for proof of global warming are NOT conclusive. There is also strong evidence that we are going into a cooling cycle. Some say the next ice age is coming and some proofs are found here:
http://iceagenow.com/
And denying climate change is not the answer. We should always work in ways that will sustain our planet and therefore the livelihood of its present and future inhabitants. We should always have the attitude of leaving things in better shape than we found them, whenever possible. Short cuts and self-serving practices have left us with a mess that we may not be able to reverse. The indigenous peoples of the lands knew how to live in harmony with the earth.
But the planet will survive. It has gone through many rebirths and it will again. It may take to the ridding itself of its current leeches through extreme weather cycles, but it will survive.
The thing about the push for “green” products and technologies is that although it is good to think we are making positive steps to reverse a trend (and in some cases we are), it is mainly a marketing tool. It is the buzzword for business today.
When companies like BP and Shell claim to be going green, it is merely a PR stunt to continue to cover very “ungreen” practices. We see that underneath it all, money is the motivation.
Just my $.02 worth.
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By: Poolman on June 4, 2010
at 11:48 AM
Re Global Warming, you said, “Before I destroy the economy with ill-considered measures, I want to be convinced that it is something beyond simply a natural rhythm of Mother Earth – a rhythm we know has being going on for literally millions of years.”
‘In other words you are saying that you are willing to wait until the situation is totally out of control before taking action.’
I meant precisely what I said. If I had meant other words, I’d have USED other words.
‘In fact, many climate scientists feel that we are already near or already beyond the tipping point’
And many do not. Convention is that those who make extraordinary claims bear the burden of proof. I am not a climate expert, but so far I have found the proof unconvincing – not the proof of warming, which is certainly true – but proof that it is anything other than another natural cycle.
‘but that hasn’t stopped the deniers who think it is all caused by Al Gore’s charcoal grill. It is especially interesting to me to see that most of the “well known” deniers have a vested interest in their denials.’
I prefer the term “skeptic.” I have no dog in this hunt, unlike some on BOTH sides.
As for Mr. Gore, I would be much more convinced if he had a) some scientific training, b) an understanding of the scientific method and c) the ability to use it to critique his own work and d) had not made a veritable fortune entirely by promoting “global warming” and e) walked the walk by living in a modest, energy-sipping house instead of an energy-guzzling monster.
‘there is nothing that I have seen or read that would convince me that we are not on the edge of a climactic disaster, perhaps natural, but exacerbated by human activities.’
We disagree.
‘Of course, I could deny it, secure in the knowledge that my time here is very limited but that would be patently unfair to future generations.’
I don’t think that ‘limited time’ is a very good reason. I prefer ‘lack of evidence,’ myself.
‘I like other posters here would like to leave a world in better shape than the one I came into but I fear that this is not going to happen because we have dragged our collective feet too long.’
I have children and grandchildren, as well as a personal respect for my planet. I think you and I share the same desires; we just disagree.
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By: PFesser53 on June 4, 2010
at 11:17 AM
How not to respond to an oil spill! Rachel
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-how-not-respond-oil-spill-bo
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 11:00 AM
I think trolls need to get a life.
Global warming is real folks. I have been to the arctic region and the snow and ice is melting which has severe consequences for the earth.
No drilling in ANWR or Arctic waters. The arctic waters are the feeding ground for the oceans. If it dies, so do so many animals.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 10:58 AM
Jim, you have raised some good points. I like to learn from people with differing opinions, as do many others here. It’s fun to have a good debate.
With all due respect… you haven’t been here for the duration. If Craig wanted anyone to learn from what he has to say he wouldn’t have created himself such a toxic identity (identities) here. You’ve maybe seen micro-doses of him here and there but haven’t really been treated to the full experience.
This isn’t about you, and your attempts to smooth things over just further smuggify Craig and irritate people here who just wish he’d find some other source of entertainment for himself.
As for James, he has rubbed people the wrong way on many occasions but I noticed an abrupt change in his participation style several months ago. It was so radical that I wondered if someone was pretending to be him. He used to come often and engage in dialogue. He sounded like an independent thinker. I probably disagreed with 60% of what he said but that’s OK. Some of what he said was interesting, but if I really wasn’t up for hearing his views it was pretty easy to scroll by them since they stood out in length, LOL. Now he seems to just drop by to proclaim his rightness and leave. I’m not sure what brought that about but I’m happier when nuJames is gone than when he’s here. I don’t think he cares what people think of him here anyway.
I guess my biggest source of confusion is why people would descend on a group of porch sitters just to stir things up or fling bile. It is offensive, IMO. There are so many other sites for that! I guess I’ll never understand what makes trolls tick. I strongly encourage ignoring them, but the visitors here are humans and many are fed up. In fact, lots of engaging and positive dialogue here has died off because it’s just not as much fun here as it used to be. Many good people have moved on and I miss their good company. They cared more about being kind than (pseudo) clever, and they have apparently found other places to hang out. It’s a shame.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 4, 2010
at 10:49 AM
And IYHO what is the MAIN reason for our climate change ?
And at this point how do you turn back the clock?
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By: Craig on June 4, 2010
at 10:40 AM
PFesser53 on June 4, 2010 at 3:50 AM
Re Global Warming, you said, “Before I destroy the economy with ill-considered measures, I want to be convinced that it is something beyond simply a natural rhythm of Mother Earth – a rhythm we know has being going on for literally millions of years.”
In other words you are saying that you are willing to wait until the situation is totally out of control before taking action. How generous of you. In fact, many climate scientists feel that we are already near or already beyond the tipping point but that hasn’t stopped the deniers who think it is all caused by Al Gore’s charcoal grill. It is especially interesting to me to see that most of the “well known” deniers have a vested interest in their denials. For an assessment go to http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/inhofe-global-warming-deniers-47011101 for a different view if you dare.
In one of my past lives I was a Navy weather observer and came to understand the difference between weather and climate. And though my interests eventually took me in other directions, I still have a peripheral interest in the subjects and there is nothing that I have seen or read that would convince me that we are not on the edge of a climactic disaster, perhaps natural, but exacerbated by human activities. Of course, I could deny it, secure in the knowledge that my time here is very limited but that would be patently unfair to future generations. I like other posters here would like to leave a world in better shape than the one I came into but I fear that this is not going to happen because we have dragged our collective feet too long.
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By: jsri on June 4, 2010
at 10:27 AM
Lori,
I have not been here a year..
But did James threaten Jean?
I had heard about threats by looking at previous posts, but never had it been specific as to who the threats were against? Now that you mention 80 yo it kinda narrows it down.
Thanks
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By: Craig on June 4, 2010
at 10:22 AM
WEll Jim you and I will have to agree to disagree on James.
Anyone that will come onto a blog and threaten a sweet 80 year old lady is a nasty mean spirited person and calling him a troll is too kind IMHO. And it doesn’t matter what political party you belong to.
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By: lori on June 4, 2010
at 10:10 AM
Helen, you make my day.
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By: Rose on June 4, 2010
at 10:05 AM
lori –
I am quite aware of the technical definition of troll. What I was doing was to gently suggest some self-examination.
The point I was trying to make is that it is pretty easy to get one’s ego tied up in this stuff and also pretty easy to just give someone the back of your hand when, in reality, the problem with this person actually is that they don’t agree with you. Sometimes that’s hard to admit to oneself.
Yes, I have to agree that sometimes folks on these boards just want to piss others off, but I also see that sometimes that is a reaction to being “dissed” as the kids say. I’m not a young player in this arena, and my experience is that it is a downward spiral, and can go several ways: 1) it becomes a flame war. That’s not common nowadays; people have really matured about that crap. 2) it becomes a pissing contest, where several gang up on one person and call him, “troll” and constantly beat him over the head. He, in turn, will respond by trolling – just posting stuff to get everybody’s blood pressure up. Not good. I see that here. 3) Some good posters with good – but not-party-line – ideas just say screw it and leave. Also not good. To my limited experience here, I think James may fit in that slot. 4) people like me – experienced and implacable – who (mostly) ignore the baiting and won’t be pulled off-topic (usually!!). I try to remember that when the personal stuff starts, the discussion is over, and I don’t have time to waste on that.
The trick is to do what Linus Torvalds said, when asked about the success of Linux: “The secret is that I don’t care TOO much.” Very profound, IMHO. It seems to me that sometimes we care TOO much about these issues, to the extent we close our minds. Certainly I do. But it ain’t that important. I try to remember – it’s not real; it’s just electrons.
Sometimes people crawl up my nose, too, but I want to hear what they have to say. You can’t learn with your mouth open as my first-grade teacher used to say…
Didn’t mean to get all preachy there. Just my $.05
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 4, 2010
at 9:30 AM
ha ha Gretydog..
there is no need to worry! I have to say the yunggins (anyone under the age of 30…. from my perspective.. LOl) I am surrounded by are extremely astute and well educated. They can and do separate the wheat from the chaff.
and I will pass along your kudos !
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By: lori on June 4, 2010
at 7:10 AM
Good morning.
Rain, rain, rain, rain, rain, rain….
May I have some sun today, anybody?
Jim,
I’ve noticed in your posts that you seem open-minded, willing to listen, and strong in your opinions. I like your friendly reminders about what good political discourse should sound like.
What we see in trolls is a commonality of attitude, excessive spouting, and arrogance.
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By: vgman on June 4, 2010
at 6:59 AM
Lori, give your daughter a hug for me! She gives me hope that the younger generation will thrive and drag this country into a good future.
As for the 16 yr old that lives in my house. . .if he’s the future, then we’re ALL in big trouble.
Hopefully Lori’s daughter and her friends will carry the day!
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By: Greytdog on June 4, 2010
at 6:55 AM
still don’t understand…….you can read the entire entry here.. 😉 enjoy
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
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By: lori on June 4, 2010
at 6:46 AM
Jim, I won’t speak for what JJ Stephanie and vg but urban dictionary defines a troll as this…
1. One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument
Sounds about right to me….
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By: lori on June 4, 2010
at 6:43 AM
JJ, Stephanie, vg –
Help me out here: What EXACTLY constitutes a “troll” on this blog? Pls be specific; I’m taking notes. I can’t seem to find any commonality among those you denote “troll,” other than the fact that they often seem to disagree with you.
Are there others? Perhaps I’m not seeing them.
Thanks,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 4, 2010
at 6:12 AM
JJ, what is it some don’t understand about top 1 percent wage earners in US = wealthy? LOL Even I can understand that! LOL geeze talk about parsing!
BTW I agree with you it’s time to go back to the beloved Ronnie’s tax codes. There were many areas I disagreed with him but his income tax policy was soild. It’s time to roll back..
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By: lori on June 4, 2010
at 5:52 AM
Even my 16 year old daughter gets it!
As we were listening to CNN this morning and the anchors were droning on about how President Obama should be jumping up and down singing yankee doodle, pounding his fist on his desk and shouting at BP with a bull horn, my daughter said to me “don’t these people understand we didn’t WANT another Bush we wanted someone who actually THOUGHT through problems and solves them? We WANTED a President with a brain! ” ….
out of the mouth of babes.. 😉
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By: lori on June 4, 2010
at 4:44 AM
Craig –
Yes, that’s the problem, isn’t it? “Rich” means “more than I have.” “I have LESS than I ‘need’ and you have MORE than you ‘need,’ so I think it is OK to send a man with a gun to take more and more from you every year until I feel I have enough.” (Don’t think he has a gun? Don’t pay your taxes.)
Of course the problem is that the more you tax something the less of it you get. I remember well the ‘seventies, when the marginal tax rates were above seventy percent for high earners. Doctor friends of mine simply did the math, worked for about six months and quit for the rest of the year. Those who lived frugally did fine; the govt taxers, not so well. It will happen again. I am watching the tax man carefully. I could work for another several years; if it gets dicey, I will simply retire.
Auntie Jean –
I believe in global warming. I believe in it every time it has happened. Where do you think the oil came from that is spewing out of the ocean bottom right now? Where do you think the coal came from under much of America? The oil that was originally discovered in Pennsylvania?
It all came from tropical swamps.
On the other hand, where do you think the moraines came from in the northern US? The drumlins in the Connecticut River valley? The GREAT LAKES? During I believe it was the last ice age, ice sheets covered all of Britain except the southernmost part, northern Europe was covered – with the boundary going across Germany and Poland. Not only could Sarah Palin see Russia, she could walk there across the frozen ocean, or from North America to Europe, since the North Atlantic was frozen. Nearly all of Canada was covered. In the south, much of Chile and Argentina were covered.
No, the earth’s been much warmer than now – and much colder – long before man could make enough smoke to repel gnats. Before I destroy the economy with ill-considered measures, I want to be convinced that it is something beyond simply a natural rhythm of Mother Earth – a rhythm we know has being going on for literally millions of years.
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By: PFesser53 on June 4, 2010
at 3:50 AM
Thank You President Obama,
Time to roll back tax breaks for oil companies and use the money to fund alternative energy!
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/obama-time-roll-back-tax-breaks-oil-c
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 3:48 AM
There is another oil spill
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/857.html
The Gulf – Will it ever recover?
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By: JuneauJoe on June 4, 2010
at 3:41 AM
Hi Congenial Gang, various and sundry trolls on and off this blog,
We were out and about this afternoon, checking out our baby albatrosses on our neighbors’ lawns. Most of their baby fuzz has turned to feathers and soon they will be following their parents out to sea to forage for their food. Such magnificent birds!!!
A footnote to the poem I put up on Memorial Day about the tiny little island of Tuvalu out in the South Pacific. The entire population of roughly 10,000, is being moved, lock stock and barrel, to New Zealand. Their island is no longer habitable and won’t be for the foreseeable future. That is not a significant number to some, but they are people and Tuvalu was their home for generations.
Compare the little population of Tuvalu to that of the Netherlands, and other major cities on shorelines that will be threatened by the rising sea levels without massive seawalls and infrastructure improvements to keep the sea at bay. New York, Los Angeles, London, Hong Kong and, of course, New Orleans. (I’ve personally been to all of these cities.) Venice, Italy had a population of 121,000 in 1996 and was down to 62,000 in 2009, still dropping.
The landlubbers can just shrug and say, not my problem, I don’t live there. Too busy playing the political fear card, looking for ‘terrorists’ under every rock and ‘illegal aliens’ behind every tumbleweed. These are rhetorical questions not necessarily intended to elicit answers. How much do you know about the three largest Ice Sheets on the planet, Greenland and two in Antarctica? These are rapidly melting along with most of the glaciers in North America. Where do you think you get most of YOUR FRESH WATER you use to irrigate YOUR crops, make YOUR coffee, shower, shave, and brush YOUR teeth in the morning? What are you going to do when YOUR livelihood goes down the drain and YOUR state turns into a barren desert? Ooooooooooo! You should be afraid. What are you going to do when the aquifers are depleted? What are you going to do when the runoffs from YOUR crops have gone downstream into the rivers, contaminated and poisoned them for marine life with phosphorus and nitrogen because of YOUR over-fertilization because you didn’t know any better how to farm all these years and voted for the wrong party? You should be very, very afraid. Ooooooooo! You should be soooooooooooo afraid!!!
Global warming and climate change are definitely being hastened by the overuse of carbon-based fossil fuels and their byproducts. (Plastics?) The critters that petroleum came from were a finite number just as the whales hunted down for whale oil were nearly driven into extinction. I’m hoping we can phase out petroleum just as we did whale oil and get into solar, wind and waves for energy.
But…….smart ass and pompous foot dragging won’t do it. It will take huge amounts of investment in not only financial resources and also technical expertise in R&D. And where do we get qualified people? From our failing school systems? There is circularity here between oil consumption, the ravages of human pollution and lack of our education system to produce smart enough people to deal with these problems.
Professional educators with the training, expertise and experience, such as jsri, JuneauJoe and vgman deserve to be compensated every bit as much as other professionals, commensurate with their training, expertise and experience; such as physicians, lawyers, scientists of every discipline, economists, MBA’s and bankers.
Maybe it is time to jettison this egotistical and ANTHROPOCENTRIC attitude. (Look it up.)
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 4, 2010
at 1:25 AM
Ignore….
Ignore…
Ignore, Ignore, Ignore!
That rhymes with YOUR! and YOU’RE!
Imagine that, Craig.
Stop pestering everyone else and learn the difference between the two.
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By: vgman on June 3, 2010
at 11:01 PM
I think its unfair that some people don’t pay their share of taxes, also…..people like Tom Daschle, Timothy Geithner, Charles Rangle….hmmmmmmmmmm who did I forget?
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By: Carlos on June 3, 2010
at 11:01 PM
Hey Joe,
What is considered the “wealthiest”
At what point are you wealthy?
I’m just curious what your definition would be.
But what is the line to cross to be considered wealthy?
Ahh come on JO humor the troll
Cat got yer tongue?
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 10:03 PM
Steven Seagal feelings about big oil. From the 1994 movie On Deadly Ground. Not much has changed.
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By: Poolman on June 3, 2010
at 9:28 PM
Answers:
Yes, Trolls who spam are stupid and boring – scroll past them.
Talking to a troll is like trying to teach a pig to sing.
OINK!
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 8:14 PM
JOe,
Do yo ever have any answers?
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 8:01 PM
The Wizard of Westwood, John Wooden, has died. he was 99
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By: Greytdog on June 3, 2010
at 7:23 PM
Flat tax is the only “fair” tax. 10% across the board….if its good enough for God, its more than enough for the government. They should learn to live on a budget like the rest of us do.
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By: Carlos on June 3, 2010
at 7:20 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Well, well, well. Even though it is late spring, I see the long horned rams are still butting heads. So it seems the rutting season has been extended indefinitely.
I can’t speak for the younger ewes, but us older one have no interest whatsoever in granting our sexual favors to any of them.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 3, 2010
at 6:53 PM
Numerous large corporations have been screwing up our environment for decades. But because they give us jobs or are doing government contract work, for example, we give them some of our prime locations and a lot of leeway. The end result is usually not ecologically good.
We used to have good groundwater here in Phoenix. Now it’s all poisoned. Familiar names like Motorola, Siemens, and Honeywell have been part of the act. “The resulting contamination is part of a subterranean pollution plume that stretches 7 miles, east to west, across the city.” Hey, but we can’t see it. And how important is water anyway, in a desert?
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By: Poolman on June 3, 2010
at 6:51 PM
Poolman: Good points!
I noticed that Halilburton just gave donations to the Congressmen who are on committees overseeing the Gulf Fiasco. They have not given out money since the last election.
I think they are buying influence.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 5:37 PM
Great post Helen!
I would have to agree with “Camden”. The trolls on this page are just pathetic. They really do need to get a life!
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By: Stephanie R. on June 3, 2010
at 5:06 PM
Some of the very wealthy are able to keep from paying their far share of taxes by working the system’s legal loopholes and others are not so above board. Some wealthy Americans hide their money in secret, offshore accounts. [As a whistleblower], “Mr. Birkenfeld’s voluntary disclosures… led to… creation of an IRS amnesty program, under which 14,700 people have come forward and admitted to illegal, secret bank accounts, the recovery of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars by the IRS,…”
When caught, the wealthy do not get treated as criminals, unlike the rest of us. That is what is unfair. That is where justice needs to happen. That is why we need to clean house starting from the TOP down.
We give special tax breaks – in some case tax free status – to many corporations in an effort to woo them. We overlook their sins and change laws to appease them. Heck we even let them write the laws the way they want them, in some cases. The faces behind these corporations are usually well insulated from the public. Business operates to grow and thrive. Business has no conscience, but a strong survival instinct.
In this global economy, companies gobble up smaller companies and huge conglomerates are usually diversified in many fields of industry. The ownership is sometimes hard to determine. Many do that intentionally, as international investment is not looked upon with favor to the average American. If we can collect the proper taxes from the greatest, it will ease the burden on the least.
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By: Poolman on June 3, 2010
at 5:00 PM
The troll is spamming today!
Democrats have a difference of opinion at times?
Oh Heavens.
Troll stink is pretty strong.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 4:56 PM
FROM NASDAQ
By Martin Vaughan, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)-
Some Capitol Hill Democrats want President Barack Obama to extend tax cuts for wealthy Americans now scheduled to expire at the end of 2010, arguing that a tax increase could hinder economic recovery.
“I think there is a certain logic to leaving well-enough alone for now, given the fragility of the economic recovery,” said Rep. Gerry Connolly (D., Va.). ” It’s a question of prudent judgment and timing.”
White House officials are preparing to unveil their 10-year budget plan on Feb. 2, which will include a decision on what to do about the pending expiration of tax cuts enacted under President George W. Bush.
Asked in recent days about the tax cuts for the wealthy, administration officials have insisted that Obama won’t propose extending the tax cuts for the wealthy.
“That’s not something we have contemplated, and I don’t think that’s a necessary act,” Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said in an interview with CNBC last week.
Obama during the campaign and in last year’s budget plan proposed extending Bush tax cuts affecting the poor and middle class. He proposed letting the top two tax rates, now 33% and 35%, return to 36% and 39.6% respectively, in 2011.
This year, the top rate will apply to income above $373,650 for individuals and married couples. Under Obama’s plan, the 36%, second-highest rate would kick in at $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for married couples.
Obama also proposed bumping the 15% rate on capital gains and dividends up to 20% for those with income in excess of $200,000, or $250,000 for married couples.
“The president’s always said that tax cuts just for those people making more than a quarter million dollars a year–something like 2% of people–that those ought to expire when they were scheduled to expire, but…he has called for extending all the rest of the tax cuts,” Austan Goolsbee, a member of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said Monday on PBS.
However, some Democratic strategists looking toward midterm elections see peril in heading into November with looming tax increases on the horizon. Tax increases may be a potent issue for Republican opponents as Democrats defend majorities in the House and Senate.
Rep. Harry Mitchell (D., Ariz.), a second-term congressman who held on to his seat in 2008 with 53% of the vote, wrote Obama last week asking him to extend the lower capital gains and dividend rate, and estate tax rates.
“Given the unique economic difficulties we face as a nation, this is the wrong time to raise these taxes. We need to retain these tax cuts that encourage investment that stimulates growth and job creation,” Mitchell wrote.
Connolly said the decision on whether or not to extend the tax cuts should be weighed against the impact of doing so on the deficit. But “re-instilling confidence in the economy” should be paramount, he said.
Their view, while gaining clout, remains in the minority among congressional Democrats. Rep. Jim McDermott (D., Wash.), a member of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee, dismissed the argument that allowing taxes on investment to rise now would slow the recovery.
“There’s no proof that the Bush tax cuts had anything but a negative effect,” said McDermott.
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201001191713dowjonesdjonline000448&title=among-democratscalls-to-extend-bush-tax-cuts#ixzz0ppYi0461
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 4:16 PM
It’s a simple question Joe.
In your humble opinion, can you begin to answer the following?
What is considered the “wealthiest”
At what point are you wealthy?
Like that commercial on TV where people are carrying around a number that represents their retirement nest egg..what number is considered wealthy?
I’m just curious what your definition would be?
Now if your talking a 20 room mansion in the Hamptons and a New York apartment and a ski home in Aspen, then that would be wealthy..
But what is the line to cross to be considered wealthy?
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 4:14 PM
We know by looking at the crumbling economy left by the Bush administration (and two wars) that the Bush Plan of 1.7 Trillion tax break for the wealthiest was a bad decision.
Time to change it!!!
Tax the wealthiest at a higher rate – it is only fair.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 3:04 PM
JuneuJoe –
What is a “fair share?” It sounds good on the surface, but what is it, really? And who decides how much that is? That decision should be a chip shot, right?
I don’t think so. And that has been the problem.
I hadn’t read Atlas since college, but picked it up and read it again for the 50th anniversary. There are several good soliloquies (How the hell do you spell that, anyway?) that really sum up the flaws in the socialist viewpoint (not that I’m calling you that, you understand). If I can find it, the one on “fair share” is really dynamite.
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By: PFesser53 on June 3, 2010
at 2:47 PM
Thanks PFessor53.
And Camden, a special thanks for proving my point about the intolerant wing of this message board. You should be proud. How long did it take you to think of such a clever rejoinder? I hope all of that work didn’t give you a head ache.
I will return sometime when I feel like it.
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By: James on June 3, 2010
at 2:46 PM
Nobody ever believes me that trolls would disappear if nobody acknowledged them in ANY way… good, bad or indifferent.
I was just reading that the editor of the Frontiersman newpaper in Wasilla had to walk back his “armed and dangerous” opinion piece from the other day.
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/alaskan-editor-who-took-aim-at-palin-antagonist-mcginniss-apologizes/?src=busln
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By: Scout on June 3, 2010
at 2:40 PM
Troll: Get a life!
Scroll the Troll
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 2:29 PM
Economic Policy: Bush gave a 1.7 Trillion tax cut to the wealthiest among us and he also deregulated so there was less government oversight.
By any standard, that policy failed!
We need to take back the tax cut and get help to people who actually spend money, the lower and middle class. The middle class are paying the bills.
1% of the people make 27 times the money that the other 99 % make. The 1 % do not pay 27 times the taxes though – why not?
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 2:27 PM
I heard they picked up murder suspect Joran van der Sloot in Chili by racial profiling…..
Yikes..what next?
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 2:14 PM
And Camden,did I ask you a question?
Right, I didn’t think so.
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 2:11 PM
Hey Joe,
What is considered the “wealthiest”
At what point are you wealthy?
Like that commercial on TV where people are carrying around a number that represents their retirement nest egg..what number is considered wealthy?
I’m just curious what your definition would be.
Now if your talking a 20 room mansion in the Hamptons and a New York apartment and a ski home in Aspen, then that would be wealthy..
But what is the line to cross to be considered wealthy?
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 2:09 PM
I’m sorry DeLurker, its just that your avatar is completely identical to Anonymous.
So I just assumed.
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 2:01 PM
The wealthiest amongst us should pay their fair share, which is not happening today.
Those making tons of money by pushing paper and were dealing with derivatives made tons of money too. That money was stolen from the poor and middle class, then the wealthiest do not pay their fair of taxes. We, the average people are paying for the needs and wants of the wealthiest.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 1:52 PM
Camden –
I like hearing what James has to say. He seems thoughtful and polite and I believe makes several good points. Just saying get-a-life is intellectually lazy. What is your specific issue with his post?
JuneauJoe –
OK – I’m having trouble seeing exactly what the point is. Yes, the upper 1% makes a lot of money. That is the definition of “upper 1%.” If you look at the upper .l%, they make even more. The upper .01%? Whew boy! See Gauss.
The problem with class warfare is that neither side appreciates the other’s situation. For the most part upper-income earners have hardly any sympathy for folks who are barely making it, and the lower echelon is deeply resentful of the top, feeling they somehow don’t “deserve” it, but the fact is, the people who make the top money most often did so by taking chances – usually in a business. When they did this, they took the chance over and over of being flat broke busted. They did not take the safe way out like you and I did – a workaday job, with a guaranteed paycheck.
That’s how the world works: high risk can bring high income but carries with it the possibility of utter failure; legend has it that McDonald’s was Ray Croc’s 57th (?) business; all the rest had failed. Low risk guarantees a low income. I for one do not resent affluence; maybe someday I can have some myself if I keep working hard.
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By: PFesser53 on June 3, 2010
at 1:33 PM
Craig/James get a life.
Really.
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By: Camden on June 3, 2010
at 12:53 PM
That comment wasn’t from me, Craig.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 3, 2010
at 12:52 PM
Yep your right Delurker..
Its Always happy hour somewhere.
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 12:28 PM
1% earns 27 times more than the other 99%
Found it!
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 12:10 PM
More income inequity info but not the one I saw last week.
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 12:03 PM
Here are some 2007 numbers on wealth distribution.
I lost track of the new number info.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Point is the same: Wealthiest are making a killing and us regular folk are paying the price.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 11:49 AM
Hello everyone. New day. So many topics. So much real news happening. Maybe we can focus on important issues instead of the usual garbage the MSM has for us. I have plenty of alternate sources for news that I have been bookmarking over the past few years. I like to get views from all perspectives to help shape mine. I have enjoyed posts from some conservative sites as well as liberal, with many in between. This was a good one I wanted to share after the events of this week. As we all run around with ribbons and pins in “support” of our troops, the reality is we keep forgetting the troops.
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By: Poolman on June 3, 2010
at 11:25 AM
JuneauJoe –
Help me out here; also some cites for your data would be good.
When you say “the top 1%, what does that mean? Those in the 99th percentile income-wise? In America, or the world over? Is this just individuals? Are we talking about earnings, trust funds, what?
What do you mean by “taxes?” Just income tax? Income and prop? Tax on their businesses included in this?
I’m not just being pedantic here; I am very suspicious of “facts” being thrown around without any citations. Here is what I found at:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
According to them, the top one percent of wage-earners (over $410,000) pay a little over 40% of all income taxes paid. The bottom 50% pay about 3%.
This does not seem to square with your numbers; can you help me out there?
Thanks,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 3, 2010
at 11:18 AM
This time, I scanned comments from the past few weeks. Not much has changed has it?
Hi Honolulu Sally. Thanks for the nice words. Yes, I have a hard shell, and I am relentless. Like Forest Gump, I usually win, so I like the comparison.
As I wrote before and you mentioned, Charles Djoi won because Democrats split their vote. My point is I don’t think he would have won last year, because the political mood is changing. If he is a “man of people not party”, I would vote for him.
I am not a member of the Tea Party movement. They are too conservative for me, but I have attended three of their demonstrations, because they are the only effective vehicle for slowing our headlong dash into financial disaster.
Their demonstrations, for example delayed passage of the health reform law. Yesterday, I think, Dr. Douglas Elmendorf of the CBO presented a slide show to a meeting of the Institute of Medicine.
It shows:
“The CBO estimates the effects of proposals written and does not forecast future policy changes.
We have emphasized that the legislation maintains and puts into effect a number of policies that might be difficult to sustain over a long period of time. For example, the legislation reduces the growth rate of Medicare spending (per beneficiary, adjusting for overall inflation) from about 4 percent per year for the past two decades to about 2 percent per year for the next two decades.”
“Putting the federal budget on a sustainable path would almost certainly require a significant reduction in the growth of federal health spending relative to current law ( including this year’s legislation.)”
I once quoted Canadians who said their health insurance policy was becoming unaffordable, and now some say they may have to cut back. Representatives of several European countries said the same things.
The Tea Party movement appears to be closer to the truth about the health insurance law than Democrats who voted for it.
Easier or someone else said she was worried about the future. She’d better be.
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By: James on June 3, 2010
at 11:16 AM
The top 1% earn 27 times more than the other 99%.
I thought that was an interesting fact.
By the way, they DO NOT pay 27 times more in taxes.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 3, 2010
at 11:00 AM
I think Craig is on the sauce again?
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By: Anonymous on June 3, 2010
at 10:07 AM
Hey Honolulu Hatti..
Carlos not me..
OK?
Craig and Gregorio yes..
Now pontificate on that.
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By: Craig on June 3, 2010
at 9:44 AM
For Easier and everyone else looking for a good start to a new day–
I coordinated my students with the making of a new mural (I add one new mural to the school each year).
This one says, “You may be one person to the world, but to one person you may be the world.”
This quote comes from Josephine Billings.
Have a good day everyone!
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By: vgman on June 3, 2010
at 7:27 AM
mageen what struck me about the fence fiasco with SP is that the 18ft fence went up overnight – granted it looks like something that went up over night. But 18ft?? I’m guessing Wasilla doesn’t have zoning ordinances. In our quaint little hamlet of white America we have ordinances – no fences higher than 8ft. In order to build higher, you first have to present your request to the Zoning and Planning, they then kick it up to City Commissioners who if they approve sign off on the permit. OH and if you plan to build higher than 8 ft, it must be a permanent fence – that is made out stone, brick, or other material complementary to the neighborhood. It’s about a 3-month process to obtain a permit for that high of a fence. And if someone put up a slipshod of fence overnight that thing would be down so fast – because fines are imposed from the time the first post is set. . . not pretty. Lesson: Pay your bills on time, especially when you owe your next door neighbor a good chunk of change. You don’t know who they would be willing to rent to – hehehe
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By: Greytdog on June 3, 2010
at 6:19 AM
Been so busy lately with hard manual labor that I just about lost touch with this site and everything else. So mystified by the flotilla incident. Watched the video. Israel is supposed to have the best defense force going, so why if they were attacking, did those IDF guys rapel (spelling?) down the ropes, one by one in an almost languid fashion? I say languid because I have watched old videos of our Marines on attack and they hit like a tsunami (you go, Marines!). The IDF run checks on this flotilla business on a regular basis, so boarding should not have been such a big deal for anyone. But this one ship was sooooo different. Questions to ask oneself: was this ship really what it claimed it was? If not, stocking it with innocent people is not out of the question where Israel’s enemies are concerned, and lying to the innocents as well. Thought: Israel got took.
And Israel is not the only one with a nasty problem concerning Palestinians. Consider Egypt and their crackdown. Seems as if Palestinians are not really all that welcome by their Arab neighbors. Good idea to check back and see how the Palestinians started. I think you would be surprised.
As for SP, her insistence on McGinniss stalking her just does not wash, especially when you consider that McGinniss did not go and “get” that rental but it was dropped in his lap by the owner at a ridiculously low price for that area. Seems the Palins owe the owner some money and have never ponied up, but, hey, their entitled! All sorts of points of confusion here. People have noticed that there are no windows or deck on the side of the rental where McGinniss could see the Palins. Her “family swmming hole” is the lake everyone lives on. Vegetable garden? Give me a break! And mowing her own lawn with the baby in a backpack? The baby is a toddler and too big and heavy for a backpack. Its just beyond credibility that manual labor like vegetable gardening and lawn mowing (regular tasks, let alone sweaty) are on her task list. More points of confusion: wasn’t she building a big compound near her present property along the lakeshore? Compound as in a fenced place to live and work.
No, McGinniss should not have to leave. As a writer he will be working inside the rental and pretty much out of the “social” whirl of Wasilla. As for TP getting in his face concerning his family, not at all a cool move. I have neighbors on both sides of me that SP would probably consider unacceptable as they are from another part of the world, look different from her, speak another first language, and have different beliefs. Frankly, I couldn’t do without them!
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By: mageen in old virginny on June 3, 2010
at 5:59 AM
Military personnel have to take PT tests all the time, and preparing for these physical tests is quite often when soldiers are injured. Not everyone is meant to be a runner.
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By: Anonymous on June 2, 2010
at 10:38 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I don’t often dwell on it, but when I got to be eighty years old I began to think about the legacy I will leave to our kids and grandkids. No, not a grand inheritance, Craig/Gregrio/Carlos or whatever alias you choose to use this week. No matter the name, your message is mostly the same. Money, money, money, money, money.
I would like to think when I exit, I can leave, if not a better world, at least one no worse than I came into. There is a lovely symphonic poem, “Die Moldau” written by Bedrich Smetana, a Czech composer. I have a really, really old vinyl mono recording of it with Herbert von Karajan conducting. It has turned up on several of my more recent CD albums too with much better sound quality. But I can’t bring myself to throw out the old vinyl record. However when I listen to it, I feel it is a metaphor for life, anyone’s life, that can get hectic at times. I find the music very soothing, especially when we are feeling frazzled.
If you would like to hear it, you can find it on You Tube under “Smetana – The Moldau” or probably just “The Moldau”. The Von Karajan recording must have been re-mastered because it is #8 in one of the listing of other orchestras and artists. I think you will find it well worth less than 10-15 minutes of your time. There is also a beautiful 2-part video with scenes of Prague. And an interesting but somewhat weird video of a guy playing musical glasses partially filled with water. Take your pick.
This is my more or less edited blurb taken from the jacket of that old record.
”’The Moldau’ takes its name from the great river properly called ’Vitava’. (‘Moldau’ was the name given to it by Austrian invaders.) The river flows through the city of Prague, Czechoslovakia. The music portrays the course of the river, beginning with its source – two bubbling springs in the Bohemian forest. (Sperm and egg?) These soon mingle to become the Vitlave proper, which flows across the Bohemian plain, widening its banks as it progresses. Following it, we pass a hunting scene and a village where they are celebrating a peasant wedding with song and dance. When night falls, water-nymphs sport and bathe in the waters. (Growing up?) Eventually, we arrive at the rapids of St. John, where the river becomes a raging torrent and at last, in full spate, it flows majestically through the city of Prague. (From adolescence into adulthood?) It passes by the mighty fortress of Vysehrad; (The prime of life), moving on into the distance, where it is lost to sight. (Old age.) As all rivers do, ultimately it joins the sea. (Death.)”
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 2, 2010
at 9:29 PM
Auntie Jean on June 1, 2010 at 5:47pm: I liked the bouquets you tossed the guys especially. I personally think they are class acts myself. I so know their style and enjoy them so much that vgman posted as “anonymous” not long ago and I recognized his style instantly.
I enjoy everything you write Auntie Jean. Keep writing. All news right now are so depressing that I am latching on to anything positive and your post sure was. Lifted me up. Thanks.
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By: Easier on June 2, 2010
at 8:50 PM
The both of you are heroines to me. You are smart and feisty and expose stupidity and ignorance wherever you find it. I hope you both forever because we need voices like yours as counter-weights to the racism and homophobia and xenophobia of the Fringe, as represented by Beck, Bachmann, innumerable GOP candidates vying for the “I’m more to the Right of Attila the Hun” title and of course the TP Queen herself, Palin.
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By: B. W. on June 2, 2010
at 7:48 PM
Helen, Love your blog. I understand your frustration. I have two girlfriends, both Republicans. One is a Sarah Palin/Glen Beck crazy, who travels with her husband to see them. The scary part is they are both military. Neither have ever made a dime the government didn’t provide, not to mention all the services, but they are FREAKED there might be a welfare queen out there somewhere. They are both dental hygienists. Neither have or ever will see a minute in a combat zone. She is retiring with 80% disability because cleaning teeth is HARD, but god forbid a civilian retire at 40 on SSI because they cleaned teeth for 20 years. The hypocrisy is palpable.
My other friend is aristocracy whose family of bankers makes money off duping the great unwashed, I mean, trading stocks. Somehow, she is more honest than the dental welfare queen with Palin worship.
I have been friends with one for 35 years, and the other about one. We have to avoid politics, but it is just beyond me how such smart women could be so dumb. Sometimes I think it is the idiots they married. They have no choice for family harmony.
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By: Mary Carol on June 2, 2010
at 7:48 PM
Does anyone else wonder if Sarah Palin can still see Russia from her house, now that she built that big fence?
Maven Δ
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By: Maven Δ on June 2, 2010
at 7:27 PM
Greytdog wrote: Seeing as how those boats sailed from Turkey, I’m thinking not so much humanitarian aid.
Turkey is the only Islamic country that is a real ally to Israel (the relationship goes back to 1949) — and this incident was one in which Israel screwed the proverbial pooch.
Good article on BBC News about the matter: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8714983.stm
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By: fiona64 on June 2, 2010
at 5:52 PM
You’re wonderful.
Sarah Palin is more stupid than Dan Quayle and that’s saying something. She the perfect example of what conservatives value in a woman.
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By: colleen on June 2, 2010
at 5:25 PM
If you haven’t seen this tidbit I saw on FDL, it’s worth a visit. Two very opposing views here. Eliot Spitzer and Glenn Greenwald
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By: Poolman on June 2, 2010
at 5:23 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Cynthia and Roz,
Thanks for clarifying Ann Coulter and Anne Kolter. My mistake.
Where is Boehner, you know, the House Minority Leader? Can’t find his microphone, maybe?
The current Israeli/Palestinian crisis? I’m not going to go there yet.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 2, 2010
at 5:13 PM
I like Tom Friedman and I think he makes several good points in his column. Thanks for reminding me to touch base with his sane point of view.
As for Egypt reopening the Gaza/Sinai border – funny how no press wants to cover the fact that Egypt closed that border because they don’t want the Palestinians in country, and they’re cracking down hard on the smuggling that goes on through the tunnels. Once the media attn dies down, the border will be closed again. The palestinians aren’t too well liked in the Mideast.
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By: Greytdog on June 2, 2010
at 3:11 PM
There are days when I watched Bibi Netanyahu and all I can think of is Dick Cheney. Two peas in a pod.
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By: Greytdog on June 2, 2010
at 3:06 PM
I heard the flotilla was carrying toys and wheelchairs. The best “shorter” coverage of this I’ve seen was from Roy Edroso:
“IT WON’T FLOAT. As an old-fashioned Democrat who would really like to support the Israeli government, I remain open to any good justification for boarding an aid flotilla (even an embargoed one of suspicious political provenance) in international waters [!] and killing and kidnapping several of its passengers. So far I haven’t heard any — only shrill blood-libel crap like Jennifer Rubin’s.
Anytime you find yourself writing something like this —
‘When the Israeli commandos were set upon as they were lowered from a helicopter, they acted to defend themselves.’
— and it isn’t meant as satire, you should know that you aren’t making your case, and in fact are strongly giving the impression that you don’t have one.”
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By: Scout on June 2, 2010
at 2:22 PM
Poolman –
appreciate the links. I’ll go through some of that when I get a little uninterrupted time.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 2, 2010
at 10:56 AM
PFesser53, I enjoyed the Friedman article and agree that flotilla was baiting the Israelis and vying for media coverage. In that case the mission was successful and Israel handled it very poorly. Since you are fairly new to the porch and haven’t gone back over older posts and comments (assuming on my part, I know), I have in the past linked to some of Sibel Edmonds writings regarding Turkey. You have to dig to understand the role Turkey plays in our games of world manipulation and control. Too many articles to list and link. If you are not familiar with Sibel, here is a very good video called “Kill the Messenger”, that details her plight. She also helped establish the National Whistleblowers Center, strong advocates to protect whistleblowers. A lot of the information is available on one of her websites called Boiling Frogs. Currently she has a round up posted and a good bit of info about Fethullah Gulen, the Turkish Muslim imam.
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By: Poolman on June 2, 2010
at 10:14 AM
Jean:
If I ever want to apply to a college would you write a letter of recommendation for me? You put me in such distinguished company.
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By: jsri on June 2, 2010
at 8:45 AM
Greytdog –
Tom Friedman has a pretty good article in the Times this morning.
Turkey has really been a model for a bridge between Islam and the west – an Islamic country, but with a secular govt. God I hope we don’t lose our friendship with them.
I don’t remember where I saw it earlier today, but another take on the matter was that the militant Hamas and other enemies of Israel basically duped ordinary peace activists into riding this ship – along with a few Hamas militants – in provocation of Israel. Of course when Israel responds against civilians they look really, really bad.
I am withholding judgment on this incident, but at the very least Israel really got taken to the cleaners on the world stage – whether they deserved it or not, I don’t know.
Well, on another front, reports are that Iran now has material for two nukes. This is not going to be pretty. As Sam Clemens would say, The Damned Human Race.
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By: PFesser53 on June 2, 2010
at 7:55 AM
jsri, thank you for completing the story with Roger Williams and Anne Hutchinson. Without those two, we would still be burning witches – or at least, the burning of witches would still be acceptable in our nation. ALthough I hear that those, along with lynchings, may be making a comeback soon. How lovely.
Pensacola FL has long been “famous” for its’ white sand beaches. Not anymore. Reports this morning is that the oil is approx. 9 miles off the FL Panhandle coastline and is expected to start slicking the beaches in Pensacola on Wednesday. Apparently FL has been requesting booms and containment kits from BP since the spill occurred lo these 40+days ago, but to no avail. Now it’s a last minute all hands on deck situation. Folks are driving up to the Panhandle and Florida will soon have its own flotilla out on the Gulf hoping to save some aspect of life on the Gulf that we used to know and enjoy. Amazing how we willfully chose to ignore the lessons from the Exxon Valdez debacle. Seems BP learned well though – the first thing they did was to take steps to stall and mitigate litigation.
As for the Gaza Flotilla – I think the IDF screwed it up royally – not so much the soldiers but their commanders. Someone needed to be in that “strategy” room and slap them all upside their heads and scrawl in HUGE letters around that room EXODUS 1947. And on the flip side – I have to admit that I’m sorry folks died – but ya know what, when you engage in deliberate provocation of an enraged animal, expect to get mauled, bit, and yes, even killed. It comes with the territory. The flotilla may indeed have been “peaceful” but sorry, you’ll have to show me the photos of those ships being loaded up with humanitarian aid stuff before I’ll believe it. Seeing as how those boats sailed from Turkey, I’m thinking not so much humanitarian aid. Why? Because geographically it makes no sense to stage a humanitarian aid effort from a port of call so far away – they could have staged it in Cairo and sailed along to Sinai coast to Gaza. . .but they deliberately chose a route that would skirt Israeli and International waters. . . so yes this was an act of civil disobedience and they got their publicity and they got the world’s sympathy. Me – not so much. I’ve been to Pro-Peace in the MidEast meetings before – and they usually degenerate into “dirty jews” ramblings. . .thanks but no thanks. I’ll stick with Peace Now because I know Uri and I know he’s real about it.
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By: Greytdog on June 2, 2010
at 7:31 AM
I had to share this:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20133ef7b0154970b-popup
I laughed so hard I had to leave my desk.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 2, 2010
at 7:19 AM
Jean, BP’s new head of its American PR operation is Anne Womack-Kolton. She is the former campaign press secretary for Dick Cheney. This info is on the site: Bark Bark Woof Woof. She’s not Ann Coulter, but she does move in that same circle.
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By: Roz on June 2, 2010
at 6:17 AM
Jean –
It is Ann Colton (not sure of exact spelling) not Ann Coulter. She was Cheney’s press secretary or something of that nature.
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By: Cynthia on June 2, 2010
at 5:53 AM
vgman, enjoy your much needed break! Do what ever you need to recharge your battery, our youth’s future depends on it.. 😉 We need you!
oh and I would bet my last paycheck you have a very strong virgo in your birth chart somewhere! LOL
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By: lori on June 2, 2010
at 4:26 AM
Dear Helen and Congenial Gang,
Is BP bent on self-destruction? They have already shot themselves in both feet. I didn’t think they had one iota of credibility left. But….
Today, while I was working hard on my “Grand Menage”, (Spring Housecleaning in the kitchen),
it was reported on TV that BP had hired Ann Coulter as a spokesperson, PR or some other position. Can anyone confirm this?
I remember when you, Helen, were reviewing Coulter’s book. I kept thinking, this is a lot more than I ever wanted to know about the silly bitch. I really never dreamed she would surface again. I apologize. Now I know. Belated thanks for your keen perceptions.
Sounds to me, that this could be the final step in BP’s corporate suicide.
I’m pooped. Gotta go crash.
Aloha! 🙂
Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 1, 2010
at 9:30 PM
And now my age is showing…..
Do you know that 90 % of the gray hairs in my beard came about during this last school year?
Yeah….it was quite the class.
I’m apologizing for thinking that the ditch-digging story came from Jim–but it was Poolman.
Anyways, great lesson from a great man.
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By: vgman on June 1, 2010
at 8:29 PM
Jean,
That’s probably the only time in my life that I will ever catch a bouquet. Thanks!
As for spelling–Take it with a grain of salt from a teacher who has taught for over twenty years–it just irks me…..OK….let it go (with this bunch).
But just so you know–I’ll still give a little growl when I see the misuse of…..
YOU”RE and YOUR. That one gets me every time.
Carlos,
I just wish that people throughout the ages could have a chance at a better life. I’d like to think that we in the US have that opportunity available for any and all who would like to take a stab at improving their lot in life. I just cringe when I think of all the times in history when one group hammered another group down and said, “Nope. It’s not your turn.” Humanity cries out for mercy and justice from all corners of the globe.
Jim,
Loved your story about Grandma and the ditch-digging. Ahhh……we went through a lot of good stories of our grandparents about a year and a half ago–when President Obama’s grandma passed away.
Pie all around. Just don’t talk with your mouth full.
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By: vgman on June 1, 2010
at 8:05 PM
Look Craig, another flotilla with plenty of advance notice. Gee. You think they can take out these “terrorists” too? Sheesh! 🙄
I picked up my BIL for lunch today. He had his head in Rush Limbaugh, as per usual. Rush was defending BP and company, advocating drilling oil domestically instead of importing from tankers, since the most oil spills were from tankers and not wells and how the democrats were wanting to take over the oil industry, and Obama was threatening to freeze BP’s assets, and blah, blah-blah, blah, BLAHhhh – on and on.
And of course all the dittoheads nod in succession. Who needs Kool Aid when you have the prophet Limbaugh? Anyway, I thought to myself, if he could suck in as much bullshit as he can spew, we sure could use his talents on the Gulf Coast. He could be useful and do a real service to this country instead of merely profiting off its less enlightened populace, tweaking their knowledge of history, steering them into walls and ditches, going about to and fro with fixed frowns on their faces, and drummin’ up the non-racism racism and entitlement blues…
♪ “Oh woe is me, a dying breed ♫
♫ A poooooooor white man ♪
♪ down on his luck ♪ ♪
♫ Nooo place to call home ♫
♪ Noooo where to hide ♪
♪ Bama’s gonna take away our country
♫ Turn us into a welfare state ♫
♪ Make us all Muslims ♪
♫ bladdiddy blah, blah, blah…” ♪
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By: Poolman on June 1, 2010
at 6:28 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Like the rest of us, I wish we had a new post from Margaret and Helen more often. But I understand. They have lives and families too. Helen especially must have developed a very tough hide, living where she does in the thicket of neo-con land. It was mostly Helen’s acerbic wit that brought all of us together. I am ever so grateful for that.
We toss brickbats back and forth but occasionally I like to throw out a few bouquets. Speaking of brickbats, I think that if there are any bloggers here of French-Canadian descent, I’m sure they would take umbrage at any disparaging appraisal that takes a swipe at their bi-lingual and overall culture. Those of us who have spent time in Quebec Province know very well that it works just fine for them. Besides that they are charming and delightful people. The bread they make up there is to die for! Even a greasy spoon roadside diner serves up a sandwich that is a culinary masterpiece.
Of course, an American Appalachian native of that vast region of the U.S. just might find offensive the stereotypical perceptions that portray them all as a bunch of hillbillies who sleep with their relatives. But I’m sure there is a fair share of democrats in Appalachia too.
Now for the bouquets. I have found jsri to be a wise, distinguished, true gentleman with a wickedly sly sense of humor. We have to read him carefully or his crafty little nuances fly right by us. He has tripped me up more than once until I caught on to him.
Poolman is a man of impeccable integrity. He has a searching mind and stretches it to ferret out obscure information that few of us would have the patience to go looking for, let alone find.
JuneauJoe is our resident stalwart. Because of him, we became aware of the plight of the Alaskan citizens who were starving and freezing in winter with $8.00 a gallon fuel. We M&H bloggers rallied around, spread the word, sending packages of canned goods, diapers, soap, toothpaste; the staples we all take for granted. We each did what we could to help the people get through a brutal winter. When Alaska’s illustrious governor was finally made aware of their situation, she offered to fly down for a photo op and take them some homemade cookies before she split for more a lucrative career. Juneau Joe and other Alaskans, from their own personal experiences, have given us insights into their magnificent state and its hearty people.
vgman. A dedicated educator. In addition to giving his young charges the array of basics they will need in life, by his steadfast example, he is instilling them with a set of values to help them continue their growth and education for a lifetime. I don’t know for sure because he has never said so, but I doubt if he takes lightly any student who expects someone else to do his/her homework for him/her.
These are only four of the outstanding guys who come here on a regular basis. There are many more who drop in from time to time when they can. I am always glad to ‘see’ them.
As to the gals? Yikes! It will take me quite a while to round them all up, one by one!!! I just want you to know, I love and respect each and every one of you blog contributing guys and gals. You have enriched my life. I cherish the time I spend with you. I count that time well spent getting to know you and learning something new from you every step of the way.
Aloha! 😉
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 1, 2010
at 5:47 PM
Great site.
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By: Randy on June 1, 2010
at 2:01 PM
Craig wrote: That’s 10 less terrorists.
…and probably a few less rockets into Israel.
So I would say, that saved more lives than it took.
Nice. We are talking about 10 secular aid workers dead — and you are calling them terrorists.
Gotta love it.
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By: fiona64 on June 1, 2010
at 11:05 AM
Carlos, I guess ALL my dictionaries must be wrong since they allow both to be used as a noun AND a transitive verb. But I digress….
I was always taught that whatever you did, give it your absolute best effort. Grandma always said, if you had it in mind to be a ditch digger, then you’d better be the best ditch digger that ever was. I kept that in mind and I have dug PLENTY of ditches in my career. As I dug them I always thought of what my grandma said. If ditches could be works of art, some of mine would be frameable.
I apply that simple principle to whatever I do, whether a fun project or a mundane task. So when I see lesser efforts, I am critical of them – whether I choose to point them out or not. Most times I do not. I accept that as a people, we have gotten very lazy, taking less effort to put our best face forward. Most of society just performs the minimum requirements needed to just get by. We accept and even expect less from people in the workforce.
So when it comes to the written word which has some permanence, I feel it important to give some thought and planning to those efforts. If I was going to be protesting in public and my goal was to bring attention to my cause and hope for some media coverage, I would use spell check or a dictionary to ensure my signs were intelligent. If I am trying to persuade someone to consider an alternate opinion on a blog, or in an email or letter, I would put my “best foot forward” in an effort to convince others I was smart.
Poor spelling, messy penmanship, and bad grammer are usually a reflection of one’s education. These are some of the BASICS taught in our public schools. Today the word processor can take care of the penmanship. There are programs that work on grammar and spelling. At this point, I think it still requires effort, and that is where the problem occurs. It usually takes a little more effort and time to get it right. Ask BP about that. The world would be a better place for it.
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By: Poolman on June 1, 2010
at 10:22 AM
Greytdog on June 1, 2010 at 9:16 AM
As a follow on to your note to Jean, the Puritan elders wanted only slavish devotion to their religious thinking. But, fortunately, two people changed the world’s perception of the role religion should play in everyday life, they were Roger Williams and Anne Hutchinson, both of whom were kicked out of the Plymouth colony and banished to the Rhode Island colony for their thinking. They were the initiators to the concept of freedom of (or from) religion that is a hallmark of our constitution today.
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By: jsri on June 1, 2010
at 9:53 AM
A nun is excommunicated because she was hospital administrator and made the decision to abort an 11 week old fetus because the mother would die without the abortion.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/37440
i think this is terrible! If the choice was my daughter’s life or an 11 week old fetus – abortion would be my opinion.
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By: JuneauJoe on June 1, 2010
at 9:23 AM
Jean, just a small note: The Puritanss didn’t come here for religious freedom, they came here because the English throne was not interested in persecuting Catholics. . .the RW Xtian Nut jobs of today would have felt right at home with the Puritans. The Pilgrims were a more mixed bag – some religious but mostly wanting to start new lives elsewhere with the chance to “become somebody” . . . because in the aristocracy of England one does not become somebody they already are somebody or they’re not.
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By: Greytdog on June 1, 2010
at 9:16 AM
Guaranty is a noun.
Guarantee is a verb or noun.
It was used in your post, poolman, as a verb…
Personally, I couldn’t care less about people’s grammar or spelling…there can be lots of mistakes in typing. The point is….no one’s intelligence or education should be judged by a few words here and it is done consistently. Making fun of the teapartiers because they have misspelled signs, etc. Many of you tend to dismiss a person’s input because of this…when, in fact, we all do it at times. I’m sorry if I didn’t make my point clear.
vgman, my parents came to the US from Hermosillo, Sonora, MX in the early50’s….LEGALLY….after waiting for several years to do so. I was born here. Did any of my other relatives come here illegally??? I don’t know….nor do I care. The point is…..today is today! We have to deal with the problems we are facing right now…….
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By: Carlos on June 1, 2010
at 9:03 AM
Spend the money and collect the oil! It was done in Saudi Arabia!
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/former-shell-oil-exec-instead-dispersing-b
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By: JuneauJoe on June 1, 2010
at 8:27 AM
The US needs to take over BP! Robert Reich
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/robert-reich-time-put-bp-receivership
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By: JuneauJoe on June 1, 2010
at 8:21 AM
@HoneyJorumples on May 30, 2010 at 10:47 AM
What a great post, HoneyJo. Your personal perspective on this issue is so helpful.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 1, 2010
at 7:37 AM
Delurker –
The best family times I remember were when we had good food AND lively discussion.
That can be true here, too.
It begins with respect. And that means respect for everybody. Yes, we had an uncle who embarrassed himself by spouting arrogant nonsense, but we younger ones learned from the older folks to listen in silence. The greybeards were silent or proffered a noncommital comment – “I see.” “Interesting…” “Hmmm….” but never poisoned the atmosphere by attacking him personally. They wouldn’t let him bait them into a pissing contest, since they knew that, if challenged, he would immediately spin off into ad hominem and personal invective. Among ourselves we talked about ideas; with him we talked about the weather.
I personally love wide-open, bare-knuckle debate. Everything is fair game. But “That’s a dumb idea and here’s why” is far different from “You are a dumb person.” When people try to bait you, you have to ignore it. There is no other way. Believe me, I know.
Of course, I’m a new poster on this forum, but it was clear immediately that the average poster here is far from average. How marvelous! What potential for rowdy, open, vigorous discussion!
I like a little pie myself; I just think you can have your pie and eat it too. My $.05.
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By: PFesser53 on June 1, 2010
at 7:32 AM
and for anyone interested: the Dogs are currently reading “See Spot Run” (they think it’s an adventure book) and the Cats are reading “The Dancing Wu Li Masters”(they’re checking for mistakes)
cya
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By: Greytdog on June 1, 2010
at 7:26 AM
Memorial Day was relatively quiet here. We went to the Viet Vets service then came back home. We did the requisite grill of steaks, shrimp, & corn. We demolished the key lime pie (made with real key limes and a Key West recipe) then just did what the critters were doing – took naps. Long naps. Read a lot. Listened to the rain.
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By: Greytdog on June 1, 2010
at 7:24 AM
Hope you all had a nice weekend. We had family over for a rained-out barbecue but the homemade blueberry pie and good company made it all worth it.
I’m disappointed that there is so rarely pie here any more… just a mess of chow all over the floor.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on June 1, 2010
at 7:15 AM
vgman –
“Have you researched your past enough to say that your ancestors were always legitimate citizens or followed a path to citizenship?”
We are not talking about the past; we are talking about now. Whether one’s ancestors were illegal aliens or fugitive murderers (like mine) has nothing to do with people living now, since one cannot change the past or decide whom one gets for relatives.
One can, however, look at the present and select the probable best path for the future. It seems to me that our “best and brightest” – especially in Washington – have lost all integrity and are NOT acting in the best interest of us all – on ANY front, in my estimation. Dealing with illegal aliens is just one.
‘“THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW BY BEING HERE.”
Seems to me that at some point, all of our ancestors broke the law. We are descendants of lawbreakers.’
Irrelevant. Red herring. Or as your mother would say, two wrongs don’t make a right. Vide supra.
“What a lawless mess.”
Lawless, yes. Mess, yes. But that doesn’t mean it has to be so. Rules – and laws – are not there for the express purpose of restricting your freedom. They are there to set a framework so that everyone knows how to conduct business and foster the progress of man. The investors that make this economy run, for example, can deal with ups and downs. What they cannot deal with is uncertainty, and IMHO that is much of the problem with the economy – that, and the fact we just pissed away a trillion bucks in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Yes, we can throw up our hands and say, What A Mess or we can demand that our officials have INTEGRITY – and that is the operative word – and set laws and stick by them. I have seen several presidencies now, and I do not believe I have ever seen this country in such a shape – and the financial end of it – although an unmitigated disaster – I believe pales next to our utterly rudderless national will.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on June 1, 2010
at 6:48 AM
tyme, those blogs were a hoot! I especially enjoyed the pixs! LOL TY for passing them along.
Jean, hehehehe you hit the nail on the head.
Carlos, you will have a field day reading my posts. They will keep your psell checker going all day. If you throw in grammar check I might even be a full time job! Good grief… what a douche bag!
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By: lori on June 1, 2010
at 4:41 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I have a few words to say about grudge-collectors. Now, I am an Old Broad but not quite old enough to have been an eyewitness to any of these events. But I have exhaustively researched them from reliable sources, which I can cite if anyone insists on it. This is an ABSOLUTELY FACTUAL ACCOUNT!
David killed Goliath with a slingshot in a battle and became a hero because of it. As a military hero, the people made him king. He was a good king but had an eye occasionally for a guy but mostly for the ladies, especially Bathsheba. He took her and had her husband sent off to battle so he would be killed. So in essence David committed adultery and murdered Bathsheba’s husband. HE BROKE THE LAW! God’s Law too. Two big ones, (that we know of for certain. He may have made a graven image or two along the way or even said some cuss words.) But hey, he was king and rank has its privileges, even with God.
David and Bathsheba are long dead, but the grudge-collectors have to have their revenge, so all they can do is see to it that the descendants of David and Bathsheba are punished from now through all eternity.
Then there was Attila the Hun. He was the Hun king who almost conquered Rome. Odabella killed him before he could pull off the big conquest of his dreams. She shud’na done it but Attila had done her wrong in the first place and she had to have her revenge. SHE BROKE THE LAW! Here we go again. The grudge-collectors are still out to git their revenge on them descendents too. Where are all them Huns now anyway? God’s justice is never enough for the grudge-collectors.
It turns out that David and Attila were actually pretty sweet guys. They just made a few mistakes. Their mothers always loved them. David had a beautiful singing voice and if he had lived longer, could probably have accompanied himself on the lyre and sung the American National Anthem very well. Attila was a handsome dude too. I’ve seen pictures of him. What a hunk!
In any event, After David, Bathsheba, Attila and Odabella were dead the people who were left lived happily ever after – except for the grudge-collectors. They got stomach ulcers from stewing about their unrequited vengeance and could never ever again eat their favorite spicy foods.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on June 1, 2010
at 2:09 AM
JeneauJoe,
Do you…….
Remember Tel Aviv Lod Airport massacre 1972 ?
Remember Munich Olympics 73 ?
Remember Nahariya attack,resulted in the deaths of four Israelis – including a father and two of his young children 1979
Remember Achille Lauro and Leon Klinghoffer 1985 ?
Remember attack on Israel’s Nizanim beach 1990
A squad of 17 members attempted a seaborne attack on the Tel Aviv beaches and hotels, with the intention to kill tourists and Israeli citizens. The terrorists trained in Libya, which gave massive logistic support to the operation and provided the mother-ship from where the rubber-boats took-off.
“Hamas will not retreat from Jihad and resistance until it achieves freedom and independence for our people,” Gaza Strip Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh
And you would support HAMAS terrorists?
These are not people who want to move next door and settle peacefully in the neighborhood.
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By: Craig on May 31, 2010
at 9:36 PM
Carlos,
Have you researched your past enough to say that your ancestors were always legitimate citizens or followed a path to citizenship?
“THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW BY BEING HERE.”
Seems to me that at some point, all of our ancestors broke the law. We are descendants of lawbreakers.
What a lawless mess.
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By: vgman on May 31, 2010
at 8:09 PM
While we’re all anxiously awaiting a new post from Helen and Margaret, found this new? blog that is laugh out loud hilarious.
http://southpawbeagle4sissies.com/category/teabaggers-and-birthers/
also…
http://southpawbeagle4sissies.com/category/stranger-than-truth/
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By: thymeCher on May 31, 2010
at 7:02 PM
Actually Carlos, it can be spelled either way. But then don’t take my word for it, look it up yourself. And actually I commonly spell it both ways, examples of both are on this blog. But keep up the good work. You will find I make PLENTY of mistakes.
As far as my “flawed argument” is concerned, no one has denied being here without a legal reason or right is against our law. However, those that have that characteristic are more apt to follow the rest of the rules better than those who are here legitimately. It is a fact. Ask anyone driving without insurance if they follow all the rules of the road. But then I am sure you and everyone you associate with follow every letter of the law and have NEVER done anything illegal, right?
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By: Poolman on May 31, 2010
at 6:58 PM
Ummmm..poolman…shouldn’t it be “guarantee” Must be your education at work. LMAO at the pot calling the kettle black.
The flaw in your argument about illegals doing their best to follow the laws of the land is…..THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW BY BEING HERE.
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By: Carlos on May 31, 2010
at 5:33 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
For the better part of my life, I lived in parts of the U.S. that were landlocked. The only things I knew about the ocean was what I heard and read. I was 16 when I saw the Pacific Ocean for the first time. We took a one-day ‘cruise’ over to Catalina Island. I was deathly seasick, going and coming, barfing all over the place.
For the past 20 years we have lived on a teeny-weeny little island in Hawaii. I have learned from first hand experience to dearly love the ocean, its wondrous sea life and the gentle people who live here. Many of them gain their livelihoods from the proximity of the sea.
Since I am barely computer literate, I don’t know how to put up links here at M&H. Often I have a very hard time opening some that other posters put up. But I can recommend books! The most recent one is: “The Rising Sea”, by Orrin H. Pilkey, (Duke University); and Rob Young, (Western Carolina University.) They are geologists.
This poem is taken from that book. It was written by Dame Jane Resture, a native of the atoll nation of Kiribati and about her home on the island of Tuvalu out in the middle of the South Pacific. Because of Global Warming and the rising sea, many people there have no choice but to leave.
“I hear the waves on our island shore
They sound much louder than they did before
A rising swell flecked with foam
Threatens the existence of our island home.
A strong wind blows in from a distant place.
The palm trees bend like never before
Our crops are lost to the rising sea
And water covers our humble floor.
Our people are leaving for a distant shore
And soon Tuvalu may be no more
Holding on to the things they know are true
Tuvalu, Tuvalu, I cry for you.
And as our people are forced to roam
To another land to call their home
And as you go to that place so new
Take a little piece of Tuvalu with you.
Tuvalu culture is rare and unique
And holds a message we all could seek
Hold our culture way up high
And our beloved Tuvalu will never die”.
Didn’t the Pilgrims come to these shores seeking religious freedom? The survivors of Katrina fled for their very lives. Now with the ghastly Gulf oil disaster, no doubt, there will be many economic refugees, hoping to rebuild their lives elsewhere just as countless peoples have done since time immemorial. Seems to me the very least we can do is be kind.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 31, 2010
at 5:30 PM
JuneauJoe–as you may recall, I’m a Jew. And I’m horrified. This was a dreadful thing to have happened.
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By: Donna on May 31, 2010
at 5:21 PM
Please sign a petition to seize the assets of BP to make sure they pay for the damage caused by their recklessness.
http://www.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SeizeBP
BP needs to pay and seizing their assets will hold make it easier.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 31, 2010
at 5:08 PM
DRILL, BABY, DRILL did its work. How much damage will be done?
BP still has a 75 Million liability limit because of the Republicans blocking. The damage is amazing and the thought of the spill continuing until August or later is disgusting. (Kind of like the troll)
BP is still making a profit though. (That should make a troll happy.)
Trolls are really into the killing thing. With that mindset – better kill all those in the Gaza and Muslim and Islamic believing countries.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 31, 2010
at 4:45 PM
JuneauJoe
Depends on which side you are on.
That’s 10 less terrorists.
…and probably a few less rockets into Israel.
So I would say, that saved more lives than it took.
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By: Craig on May 31, 2010
at 4:02 PM
I donno poolman BP had 5.28 BILLION in PROFITS in Q1. All indications at this point are that they will survive this disaster …..
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By: lori on May 31, 2010
at 2:39 PM
Hello JJ, good to see you on the porch. This event will destroy BP, likely before they have a chance to pay for most of the damages. BP Oil Disaster – A Timeline
And regarding Israel, don’t expect accurate reporting from our media. Too much misinformation about Israel. But this latest fiasco will probably cost them a lot of the sympathy and support they get from those who have believed they are the victims in their conflicts. It may even ramp up into war, according to some in Lebanon and Syria.
Life is anything except boring today! Yeah, we’re the superior life form, for sure.
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By: Poolman on May 31, 2010
at 1:55 PM
I just love Margaret and Helen.
You two are such a delight!
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By: Janice Langley on May 31, 2010
at 1:39 PM
At least 10 killed when Israel opened fire on supply ships taking needed supplies to Gaza.
How many terrorists were made today with this incident?
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By: JuneauJoe on May 31, 2010
at 1:00 PM
Boycott BP folks.
The oil spill should continue until August or later.
The lost of animal habitat, jobs and environment is devastating.
I feel sorry for anyone who lives near the Gulf.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 31, 2010
at 12:48 PM
Auntie Jean –
Great story. I am a bit of an amateur historian – mostly WWII though. Not many folks know the drinking song part.
I always thought the Star Spangled Banner was about the most difficult song ever. I don’t know much about music but it always seemed to span three octaves and I felt sorry for the people struggling with the high notes.
On the other end was a song we tried to sing in grade school just for fun, “Many Brave Hearts Lie Asleep in the Deep,” or somesuch. I think it goes down to about 3 Hz. lol
Jim
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By: Jim on May 31, 2010
at 12:15 PM
Poolman,
You provided the “short short” story.
Being a Texas from Birth and raised in Texas schools we had to learn Texas history.
The Mexican Constitution of 1824 joined Texas with the state of Coahuila. After that they enacted an immigration law to assist in the colonization of the new lands. Mexico had neither manpower nor funds to protect settlers from near-constant Comanche raids and it hoped that settlers could control the raids.
The government liberalized its immigration policies, allowing for settlers from the United States to immigrate to Texas.
Stephen F. Austin inherited his grant from his father Moses Austin. Stephen was one of a handful of grant holders that allowed for them to bring new citizens to the new lands with most settled in the Brazos river valley.
With this also came the pledge that “they” would also convert to the Catholic faith.
Slavery was also an issue as Mexico did not allow slaves in 1829. Texas was given a one year reprieve from this law.
Then in 1830 Mexican president Bustamante declared an edict that all slaves be freed.
So instead the colonists made them indentured servants for life.
In 1832 new laws were enacted that started the real issues of taxes and levies. Add to that Mexico then decided no more immigrants allowed in Texas.
Imagine that?
From there it was all down hill.
The Texians and Tejanos living in Texas got tired of the levies and all the authority imposed on them
without the protection from Comanches as well as the wish for Texas to become its own legitimate state within Mexico.
There was the first battle of 1824 where the Mexicans were defeated,a cannon captured and then were forced to leave San Antonio with promises of not to return.
The Colonists also formed there own Constitution and decided to secede from Mexico.
Thus the Mexican Army came north captured
Col.Fannin and his army of 300 in Goliad.
On Palm Friday the Mexicans forced the prisoners out of Goliad in four directions and then MURDERED them.
The Alamo was soon to follow and the outcome of stalling for time allowed for Gen.Houston to build up his army in the marshes and thickets of San Jacinto.
The Texians and Tejanos attacked Santa Anna and his troops during their afternoon slumber not realizing that their only way out, a bridge behind them had been burned. It was a free for all. Texans took their revenge for the Alamo and Goliad.
Santa Anna hiding in a enlisted mans uniform was
captured when he was recognized by his own troops who gave him up when they started addressing him as General. The Texans had the General pledge to take his troops back to Mexico and to never return.
Actually after having read a recent book about the San Jacinto battle…The Mexican army still had several thousand troops in the area..but due to heavy rains, poor communication and fearing for their imprisoned leader headed home on a most dreadfull march home.
The Mexicans did not keep his promise..as they returned again in 1842 because Texas wanted to join the U.S. and again in 1845.
Finally Mexico was had their own internal issues with the French and pretty much left Texas alone to join the Union.
That is the longer more complete short story.
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By: Craig on May 31, 2010
at 9:37 AM
To Easier and lori
AMEN to your 5/30 response posts.
And a good Memorial Day to all!
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By: Roz on May 31, 2010
at 9:20 AM
Auntie Jean I like your suggestion about anthem changes but trust me, out there somewhere is the person who, through no fault of their own other than a tin ear and a karaoke sized ego, will find a way to butcher “America The Beautiful” into an unintelligible WTF??? performance. Guaranteed.
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By: Greytdog on May 31, 2010
at 7:46 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
We just finished watching the Annual National Memorial Day concert on PBS this evening. Much of it was very moving.
Here are some ‘facts’ that some of you may not know. The background music by the Washington Symphony Orchestra during a narrative by two well-known actors was the Second Movement, the “Largo” (meaning slow) from the Symphony No. 5 in E Minor, “From the New World” by Antonin Dvorak. He was a Bohemian (Czechoslovakian) composer who spent quite a bit of time in the U. S. Much later someone wrote lyrics for the “Largo” movement: “Going home, going home, I’m just going home…………”
More ‘facts’. The lyrics for our National Anthem were written by Francis Scott Key during the War of 1812. He was a lawyer, not a soldier, and wrote the poem on board an American ship 8 miles from Fort McHenry, Maryland while the British were bombarding the Fort. The lyrics are rather militant: “the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air……” The music however is an Old English drinking song. It has a difficult range such, that it really takes an operatic voice to sing the “National Anthem” well without screeching.
Short personal story. I studied music intensely for more than 14 years and performed a gazillion times. Some of you Old Timers here may remember my story about how, along with a troop of entertainers, singers, dancers, etc., I played a piano solo for the patients at the huge Fitzsimmons General Army Hospital in Denver when I was 14 years old. After the performance we visited the wards. Young men in wheel chairs; the amputees, the blinded, the broken bodies and shattered spirits. Right then and there I decided that war is not nice.
My personal sentiments. It has been suggested that we change the anthem to ”America the Beautiful”. I like that idea. Both the lyrics and the music are thoroughly American and describe our country and much of what it stands for eloquently. And better still, anyone can sing it.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 31, 2010
at 1:45 AM
White supremacists support AZ’s new immigration law. I love that he says” Remember the Alamo.” I don’t know if he realizes that the territory he’s talking about belonged to Mexico. “Tejano defenders were fighting against a dictatorial regime that had abolished the Mexican Constitution of 1824. Before or soon after the siege began, Santa Anna offered amnesty to all Tejanos.”
The volunteers and settlers from the US fighting Santa Ana were the illegals there. They were fighting for independence for Texas from Mexico which had just received independence from Spain. After achieving separation from Mexico, they soon voted to join the US.
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By: Poolman on May 30, 2010
at 10:24 PM
to jsri –
Fesser53 on May 30, 2010 at 2:50 AM
‘PFesser53, if you had followed his advice you would not have had to ask the question on May 30, 2010 at 2:50 AM “BTW, I notice Jean and Lori haven’t responded to my question about their personal stories. Does anyone know: have they been threatened, or were those just random walks down memory lane?”’
Very brave of you, but whether I waste time reading thousands of posts or simply ask a direct question is a decision that I – and I only – will make. Actually, Jean herself answered in a few short, polite, informative words – which I appreciate.
“FYI. H&M have had this site up and running for almost three years and like many of the contributors here, I read the site for more than a year before making my first comment.”
Your choice. I make my own, thankyouverymuch. Mileage varies.
“To a casual reader, it is obvious that this site also has some of the most sincere and empathetic among us.”
Agreed.
“And yes they do sometimes tell personal stories while making a point. It is too bad that you and a couple others find that offensive”
Who said anyone found it offensive? Cites, please. Where did anyone say that? And please, none of that “Well, even if you didn’t say it, you implied it” nonsense…
Actually I find the personal stories quite fascinating; I have many, many myself from my childhood in the Appalachian mountains; when appropriate I will share some of them.
Please try not to project your own feelings on others. “Assuming,” when one cannot see the speaker is actually a pretty amateur mistake. We all know what “assume” does, now don’t we?
“because I find that such stories reveal a lot of heartbreak, resilience and intelligence that goes far beyond book learning and helps carve out an image of the writers as real people.”
I couldn’t agree more.
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By: Jim on May 30, 2010
at 8:05 PM
Sorry not “Natural Disaster”, rather Disaster to Nature.
This is criminal. The stuff they sprayed in the water after being instructed not to is just crazy. This Tony Hayward should be in custody. This guy has done more damage to this country and its peoples than ANY illegal alien. Now he’s continuing to lie about the overall damage to life. Because that is what it is. Life is being snuffed out and will continue to be due to this irresponsible act. These people just try to cover their sins. We have laws against these crimes. We have jails for rule breakers. Why don’t we take them out of society? Too big to fail? Lawyered up? The game is rigged, people. Enjoy the theater. Pray for Justice!
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By: Poolman on May 30, 2010
at 7:43 PM
Celine Dion is pregnant with twins.
Helen, it’s not too late for you and Harold to have more kids!!!
🙂
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By: Morris on May 30, 2010
at 7:16 PM
Oh, and now the BIGGEST Natural Disaster to our nation. Ever. Happening right now in the Gulf.
But who can ya believe?
Plumes? They’re ain’t no stinkin’ plumes! What you talkin’ about, Willis?
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By: Poolman on May 30, 2010
at 7:15 PM
Afghanistan is officially the longest war we have fought in our history.
We have also just exceeded ONE TRILLION dollars spent on these 2 wars.
A couple new milestones to record in that Guinness Book.
I’ve been trying to post a couple links without luck. Two times I had a long rant with the links and I pressed “Submit Comment” and they went into cyberspace. Oh, well. We’ll try this one with no links.
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By: Poolman on May 30, 2010
at 6:36 PM
To share a little about remembering our fallen soldiers, sailors and Marines…I am a Marine brat. My Dad was a career Master Sargent. When I was 8 in 1952, we were stationed in Hawaii. My father was assigned as part of the honor guard during the December 7 Memorial Service at Punchbowl National Cemetery of the Pacific. When Taps was played, I looked up and saw my father standing at rigid attention. What I also observed were the tears rolling down his cheeks as he remembered his buddies who never came home. I never forgot that day.Here it is almost 70 years after Pearl Harbor and we still haven’t found a way to avoid war. That is tragic.
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By: Gramiam on May 30, 2010
at 6:20 PM
Roz, you’re so right … I take it one step further.. public funded elections is the ONLY way to gain back control. Let’s find a way to support it..
xoxox vgman. jsri.. all others
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By: lori on May 30, 2010
at 5:07 PM
Namaste Auntie Jean…allllll
Reminds me of the old Edwin Starr song:
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y’all
.
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
.
Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives
.
War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives
.
I said, war, huh
Good God, y’all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
.
War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
.
War, it ain’t nothing
But a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Ooooh, war
It’s an enemy to all mankind
The point of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die
Aaaaah, war-huh
Good God y’all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
War, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
.
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y’all
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
.
War, it ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War, it’s got one friend
That’s the undertaker
Ooooh, war, has shattered
Many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting wars these days
War can’t give life
It can only take it away
.
Ooooh, war, huh
Good God y’all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
.
War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
.
War, it ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there’s got to be a better way
.
Ooooooh, war, huh
Good God y’all
What is it good for
You tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it
.
War, huh
Good God y’all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it
Nothing
Peace out 😉
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By: lori on May 30, 2010
at 4:55 PM
Dear Auntie Jean: Your brother was lucky to have you. And you honor his memory. Thank you, dear
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By: Donna on May 30, 2010
at 4:55 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Memorial Day is a somber time of remembrance. As most of you M&H Old Timers know, my brother was killed at the Anzio Beachhead in Italy in WWII. My dad and father-in-law were WWI veterans. My husband is a Korean vet.
I cannot bear to hear the mournful sound of a bugle playing “Taps”.
Aloha. Peace. Shalom. Namesta.
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 30, 2010
at 4:40 PM
jsri, reading the first para of your post – instantly had a vision of a group of folks bushwhacking a pathway only to hear a voice plaintively calling from far away – “Are we there yet? Why aren’t we there?”. . .small moment of whimsy.
Hoping you all have a safe Memorial Day weekend. Please take the time to honor those who gave the final sacrifice for this nation. . .and for all nations who cherish freedom and peace.
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By: Greytdog on May 30, 2010
at 4:08 PM
PFesser53 on May 30, 2010 at 2:50 AM
Just in case you missed it, about a week ago, Poolman said. “. . . It is good to see so many old timers here on the porch as well as all the newcomers. For the newcomers, a little insight. We have been all over just about every topic relating to politics and the modern world, so sometimes we lose patience with someone asking questions or posting old information that we have been over time and again. If you have no interest in catching up on all the past posts to see that, then be prepared to get some flack for posting a repeat. Life is too short and some of us are not willing to go back and re-establish those paths for the hopeful enlightened few – not saying we won’t, just maybe begrudgingly.
PFesser53, if you had followed his advice you would not have had to ask the question on May 30, 2010 at 2:50 AM “BTW, I notice Jean and Lori haven’t responded to my question about their personal stories. Does anyone know: have they been threatened, or were those just random walks down memory lane?”
FYI. H&M have had this site up and running for almost three years and like many of the contributors here, I read the site for more than a year before making my first comment. Unfortunately, there have been many others like you who think they can simply barge in and take over without knowing what is going on. I can’t speak for other readers but I come here for the unique assessments that Helen has on current events. Her style is pungent and cogent and refreshingly readable, especially if you happen to agree with her. Unfortunately, it has also attracted some of the most odious idiots I have come across on the internet.
To a casual reader, it is obvious that this site also has some of the most sincere and empathetic among us. And yes they do sometimes tell personal stories while making a point. It is too bad that you and a couple others find that offensive because I find that such stories reveal a lot of heartbreak, resilience and intelligence that goes far beyond book learning and helps carve out an image of the writers as real people. We can also learn that we don’t always have to reinvent the wheel.
If you find all this too hard to take, perhaps you can set up your own blog and attract your own following. In fact here is a site where you can go to do just that.
http://www.mahalo.com/how-to-set-up-a-blog-for-beginners
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By: jsri on May 30, 2010
at 3:27 PM
Roz, liked your rant. Good schools would go a long way toward curing many ills we now have to live with. As long as the current system would rather spend more to jail a person than to spend that same amount or even less of that amount to catch and educate a child at risk, we will be caught in a downward spiral. Our priorities are not straight. Underfunded schools, overcrowded classrooms, and underpaid teachers, sure are not going to produce the next generation of best anything. A few above average or gifted children might escape this blighted picture, more the majority are being affected to such a degree that the future of this country is at risk. Hope we realize this before it is too late.
But then again, look at what is happening in the Gulf right now, it is an illustration of how ill-prepared we have become in many areas. This country is fast becoming reactive instead of proactive. We have to rethink our ways and set priorities and education should top all. The few getting rich at the top have set the agenda and this agenda does not include allocating enough funds to decently educate our children.
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By: Easier on May 30, 2010
at 2:38 PM
I offer the following link to a book that I first read in a Statistics class in college. It has permanently secured my mistrust of polls and other resources that count on statistical research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics
I chose to believe none of what I hear and only half of what I see. In these days of photoshop, perhaps much less than 50%.
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By: Gramiam on May 30, 2010
at 2:05 PM
Hi Pfesser53 on May30,2010 at 2:30AM,
Jim, responding to your question, I was
‘threatened’ quite some time ago here by a M&H troll. It was pretty laughable really and not worth repeating. C’est la vie.
As you can see now, the conversations here can get pretty heated at times.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 30, 2010
at 1:04 PM
Betty Bowers worst mother of the year award
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By: thymeCher on May 30, 2010
at 11:33 AM
Anonymous said – “You should care because in America, people get to vote. And when they are unhappy with the actions of their politicians they sometimes replace them with somebody else. To my eye, I would think what Arizonans think about an Arizona law is more important than what the President thinks about an Arizona law – especially since this law was passed in an effort to take care of a job that Mssr. Obama and many of his predecessors have refused to do. I would think he would be too ashamed and embarrassed to interfere”
Yes, we get to vote. We also have the right to speak freely, peacefully assemble, and petition the government with a list of grievances, and work to change a wrong, even if the majority of the people want it. The majority of people in the south thought it was a good idea to force black people to ride in the back of the bus until Rosa Parks.
I’ll say it again. The majority of the AZ law is good. It’s a mostly comprehensive law that will reinforce laws already on the books and will help curb some of the issues and ills caused, directly or indirectly, from illegal immigration. What it boils down to is this – the terms “legal contact” and “reasonable suspicion” need to be clarified and spelled out, in the same section where they appear, section 4, provision E. They are not. That’s the whole issue, but right wingers get their panties in a bunch, screaming “you want to help the dirty illegals!!! You dont’ care!!!! You want our safety compromised!!!! ” blah blah blah. A coworker of mine got livid when the Mexican president suggested America share some repsonsibility for the drug trafficking problem for creating the demand. He was so mad he was shaking. He’s also someone who has done more than his share of drugs in his day. It’s hypocritical and just boneheaded dumb to indulge in a criminal, illegal good or service, and then bitch and piss and moan about the means by which that good or service is supplied.
All I want is some reassurance that I can walk down the streets of AZ without being stopped by a cop who will demand my papers. I want a guarantee that if I get pulled over for speeding or rolling through a stop sign, that I will not be detained, questioned, taken down town or jailed if the cop doesn’t like the looks of my driver’s license, if he has a quota to fill or if he’s just feeling ornry. Until and unless I receive such a concrete guarantee, I will be against this law. I’m an American citizen, and I’m terrified to go to AZ. And any law that makes decent, hard-working American citizens terrified to walk down the street in their own country is a law that’s flawed.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 30, 2010
at 10:47 AM
PFesser53, most of my post you are commenting on was a sarcastic rant responding to skiffer who exhibited the same blatant ignorance I hear from most claiming to be conservative. The bad grammer, spelling, and punctuation seems to be rampant among them – or at least the most vocal and engaged ones. I can easily blame our education system, yet we do produce intelligent and articulate individuals along with them. Of course it could be that they just don’t care. It isn’t important to them to present their best face to the world, perhaps.
“How can we force it? It’s really simple – you require it by law.”
I wish it was that simple. I believe we have PLENTY of laws in this land. More laws now than we had 100 years ago. If laws were the answer, we’d be in good shape. Yet our prisons are full of those that can’t seem to follow these laws. Police officers are employed to enforce our laws in the public sphere. Apparently even though these laws are on the books, not everyone can or will adhere to them. And even those we call leaders can’t seem to abide by all of them all of the time either. We seem to give them a pass and have a separate justice system for them. We should hold them in greater accountability than the average citizen, yet usually they are promoted and rewarded in our society. So just making it a law doesn’t fix anything, imo.
“…we could use the troops now languishing in Afghanistan and Iraq to defend the borders of our own country instead of meddling in the affairs of others!”
It would be an improvement. I think we need ALL our national guard back here in our nation. We have become the world’s police force, yet we cannot police our own nation. Our present efforts in Afghanistan are not winning hearts and minds for our side. Truly, it is making us less safe and is merely theatrical in nature.
“The people who live there close by the border may disagree with you, who do not.”
I’ve spent 35 years in the border states of AZ, NM, TX. I lived awhile in El Paso, right on the border. Border issues have always been relevant to me.
“…the difference between these laws and the illegal alien laws is that these laws are enforced.”
I guaranty the illegals in this country, and especially AZ, do their level best to obey the laws of the land. They certainly don’t want to invite law enforcement. The other side of that, however, is that now they are less willing to report crimes by others for fear of exposing their lack of citizenship. It isn’t that the illegal alien laws are not enforced, it is that it is a federal issue, with departmentsassigned to enforce them.
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By: Poolman on May 30, 2010
at 9:35 AM
Actually, I’m getting less interested in polls and surveys all the time. They’re only conducted on land lines.
This effectively cuts out any polling of most people below a certain age, while the people who are being polled are dying off over time.
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By: judith on May 30, 2010
at 9:24 AM
So….delurker girl, what EXACTLY would that right thing be that you are so invested in? Give me an alternative to the new law….
Honestly…..do you think every law made to protect us interferes with our civil rights?’
Why not just be a lawless country?
Yeah….then nobody would ever be bothered, right?
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By: Carlos on May 30, 2010
at 9:17 AM
Good rant, Roz!
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By: vgman on May 30, 2010
at 7:43 AM
Responding to the Pfesser53’s 5/28comment re his frustration about current policies. Voting the “bums” out in November is a hopeful strategy, yet it so often falls short of the mark…see Obama and Clinton. It seems that the only change that we can believe in would be campaign finance reform. If we could get a real movement going for this change then the virus that has infected our political system would be greatly diminished. I’m talking about money’s influence in the legislation being enacted- be it economic, health, education, etc. This is the reality of our political environment and we have to change the environment, not the politician.
Also, the Pfesser’s 5/29 column re an educated populace. As a retired elementary teacher, I can agree that education is vital to our democracy. Yes, strong teachers are the base of our education system but we have to be clear about what makes a strong teacher – is it just someone that teaches facts or is there a far wider range of skills necessary to prepare our students for today’s world? And, as long as political solutions don’t address the reality of poverty as a core problem, then our schools’ shortcomings/ failures will continue. Also, the media, primarily TV, is a huge influence on the minds of our population. If schools teach primarily to tests (our current system of measuring school progress) then important skills such as critical thinking, decision making, character building/citizenship are not taught/valued and therefore do not become tools for our population to use when choosing their sources of information in making decisions. Also, the corporations own our news sources and it is not in their interests to provide the public with information/news that doesn’t further their corporate agendas. Which brings us back to money and the political arena/agendas/legislation.
Well, this is looking like a rant. I’ve been reading this site and its comments for awhile and I finally found something to add to the conversation.
Let”s find a way to support campaign finance reform. I mean it.
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By: Roz on May 30, 2010
at 7:19 AM
poolman said:
“How can we force immigrants to learn English when our own citizens don’t have a good grasp of the language?”
Just because the average person’s English is atrocious doesn’t mean we should not require basic English competency of all citizens.
The REASON to do it can be best seen by spending a little time in Canada. Clinging to the two-language model not only wastes hells of money in printing road signs, cereal boxes and everything else twice, it causes the English and French speakers to feel they are not of the same group or have the same interests. It causes a continuous friction and a permanent rift between the two groups, who in many cases really see Canada as two countries. The Quebecois have agitated for their own country for decades, and many of the English speakers think that would be a great idea. Do you want that for the United States?
How can we force it? It’s really simple – you require it by law.
“And where did those aliens come from that the feds should ship back?”
I won’t insult your intelligence by pretending you are serious.
“And when they come back here the second and third time, what then?”
Great question. When that happens, you ask yourself, “Why are we seeing the same people over and over?” And you answer: “Because we have basically NO border security whatsoever.” “Well, what should we do?” “How about a border fence, with enough personnel to patrol it? Yes, that’s it…we could use the troops now languishing in Afghanistan and Iraq to defend the borders of our own country instead of meddling in the affairs of others!”
See, this is easy!
“Utterly ridiculous, I must say.”
The people who live there close by the border may disagree with you, who do not.
“What is it about illegal that you don’t get? Of course I’m sure you never exceeded the speed limit, or turned without signaling, or jaywalked, or overestimated tax deductions, or dumped tires, or littered, or wrote a bad check, or…”
I’m sure we are all paragons of virtue, but if we are NOT, there are laws in place to punish us. And the difference between these laws and the illegal alien laws is that these laws are enforced.
Big, big difference.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 30, 2010
at 6:27 AM
Helen – I continue to adore you. We share a brain.
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By: CBell on May 30, 2010
at 5:13 AM
Delurker Girl –
I don’t have a strong training in statistics or polling, but the wording in the poll seems to me to be pretty neutral:
“In July, Arizona will begin enforcing a new law that requires law enforcement officers to check someone’s immigration status if they have reason to suspect that he or she is in the country illegally. Do you think this is a good idea?”
If anything, the last line, which implies that it might *not* be a good idea, seems to be biased *against* the law, if anything. After all, MSNBC is to the Left what Fox News is to the right – basically their shill, so I would be pretty circumspect about criticizing their liberal credibility.
Your post, on the other hand, is a paragon of fairness and neutrality:
“Do you support having completely legal US citizens be interrogated, harassed and humiliated, and denied their constitutional rights just because they aren’t white enough to avoid suspicion, because that’s how we roll and it’s just plain eaiser than doing the right thing.”
Hmmm…kind of reminds me of some of those bogus Lou Dobbs poll questions.
BTW, I notice Jean and Lori haven’t responded to my question about their personal stories. Does anyone know: have they been threatened, or were those just random walks down memory lane?
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 30, 2010
at 2:50 AM
Community, anonymous.
But then….you’re anonymous…and probably are missing the community.
We learn from each other’s perspectives.
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By: vgman on May 29, 2010
at 11:03 PM
I’m a bit confused; do people normally submit their autobiographies here? It seems a bit wacked, but if you say it is customary, I guess…. I mean it doesn’t really contribute to the discussion does it or am I missing something?
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By: Anonymous on May 29, 2010
at 9:52 PM
Wow! Been gone a while. Lots of interesting posts. Poolman, as usual, your posts are so insightful! It just feels like the world is going south in a handbasket.
I have been feeling this numbing anxiety, have been feeling it since November of 2000. Just felt that disaster was going to befall us somehow. Did not trust the administration the Supreme Court has gifted us with. If if it wasn’t war is is something else, the American people have to contend with as a result of that administration. Being cozy with big oil has now given us this brand new ecological disaster to deal with. Thanks to the “laissez-faire” relationship that adminstration had established with big oil, the Gulf is going to suffer for years to come.
It is sad really, for all of us.
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By: Easier on May 29, 2010
at 9:45 PM
The wording of the survey was the problem. What would the results be if it said “Do you support having completely legal US citizens be interrogated, harassed and humiliated, and denied their constitutional rights just because they aren’t white enough to avoid suspicion, because that’s how we roll and it’s just plain eaiser than doing the right thing.”
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 29, 2010
at 9:09 PM
BP has announced that the top kill procedure has failed. 😦
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 29, 2010
at 9:03 PM
HoneyJo –
Actually, quite a few people think that polls and surveys are important – except, of course, those who are on the minority side – and *they* seem to think polls don’t mean a thing. Imagine that.
BTW – I think my boy Bill Penn (as in Pennsylvania) predated Beaver by about three hundred years on that quote about right and wrong.
Of course, the problem is that people on both sides of an issue think they are the ones in the right and therefore – following your logic – the opinions of those on the other side don’t matter. How very tolerant and open-minded! I think that might be how we got where we are…
“Why do you think we’re supposed to care what anyone else thinks about this law?”
You should care because in America, people get to vote. And when they are unhappy with the actions of their politicians they sometimes replace them with somebody else. To my eye, I would think what Arizonans think about an Arizona law is more important than what the President thinks about an Arizona law – especially since this law was passed in an effort to take care of a job that Mssr. Obama and many of his predecessors have refused to do. I would think he would be too ashamed and embarrassed to interfere.
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By: Anonymous on May 29, 2010
at 8:54 PM
Hey skiffer, punctuation is our friend. I guess if you’re a little lax with the basics, we shouldn’t expect too much more. How can we force immigrants to learn English when our own citizens don’t have a good grasp of the language? And where did those aliens come from that the feds should ship back? And when they come back here the second and third time, what then? Utterly ridiculous, I must say. You claim they are killing ranchers. How many ranchers have been killed by Mexican drug cartels, btw? I must have missed that bit of news. I did read that the bulk of the assault rifles they are armed with come from the US and many are sold in gun shows near the border. But there is probably nothing wrong with that, you know, free enterprise and all. What is it about illegal that you don’t get? Of course I’m sure you never exceeded the speed limit, or turned without signaling, or jaywalked, or overestimated tax deductions, or dumped tires, or littered, or wrote a bad check, or…….
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By: Poolman on May 29, 2010
at 8:27 PM
Carlos – I don’t understand why you think polls and surveys are supposed to mean anything. Like Ward Cleaver once told the Beav, “if something is wrong, it’s wrong, no matter how many people are doing it, and if something’s right, it’s right, no matter how many people aren’t doing it.”
Nearly twice as many people voted for Obama as voted for McCain. Did that change your mind about him? Why do you think we’re supposed to care what anyone else thinks about this law?
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 29, 2010
at 6:51 PM
That was the dumbest thing I’ve read since craigslist r&r. If the feds would do their job and ship illegal aliens back to were they came from AZ wouldnt need this law. How many ranchers need to get murdered on their property by the Mexican drug cartels.
Drill baby drill thats right but not at sea. How about the Bakken reserve in Montana and Idaho. You talk about wind power and thats good Im all for it but just take a look at what happens when people push for it. Libs come out ofthe woodwork to block it because it will ruin the scenery.
You people are rediculous.
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By: skiffer on May 29, 2010
at 6:23 PM
Poolman,
I have to agree with ya..as to a moral compass..
I don’t think I said they had one.
I did say that the people who work down there for the companies have depended on both the fishing and drilling business as a primary source of revenue and work.
From the helicopter companies and boats that haul
people and equipment out to the rigs as well as other support businesses…i.e. hotels,restaurants, grocery.
I filmed down there for two weeks out on the rigs as well as in the small communities documenting
helicopter operations. Its a complex system of of businesses relying on one another.
Yep the oil companies, the drillers
and service companies are in it for a profit.
Never said they were not. Kinda like they way they sat at the table and pointed the finger at one another during the first few days appearing before Congress. Don’t blame me…blame him….
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By: Craig on May 29, 2010
at 3:48 PM
If you’re lucky to have a Trader Joe’s near you, you’ll enjoy this video.
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By: thymeCher on May 29, 2010
at 2:50 PM
I invite you all to check out this survey…the results are extremely interesting….especially on MSNBC
http://world-news.newsvine.com/_question/2010/05/12/4274124-do-you-support-arizonas-tough-new-law-on-illegal-immigration
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By: Carlos on May 29, 2010
at 1:41 PM
PFesser53, Grayson introduced and is trying to gather support to pass HR 5353. The bill will eliminate taxes for anyone making 35K or less.
The War is Making You Poor Act
I agree the dumbing down of America has greatly affected the present populace and contributed greatly to the situation we find ourselves in today. I thought we had learned a valuable lesson in Vietnam, but apparently we did not learn well enough to not repeat the same mistakes.
It is disheartening to see Obama allowing the continuance of the Patriot Act and continuing the war in Afghanistan. I know that the military has a great deal of power and influence with our leaders, but I am hopeful that efforts are being made to rachet down their influence and control. I know there is much going on behind the scenes that we are not privvy too. I don’t like our military used to subdue and police the world.
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By: Poolman on May 29, 2010
at 12:39 PM
Craig on May 28, 2010 at 6:05 PM, regarding Venice, Louisiana. This little tidbit from April may influence the locals and conflict with the advertising copy that you posted. This was not big enough for the media to pick up on. Apparently this stuff happens all the time.
Now as we learn more regarding the Deepwater Horizon mishap, it is looking more like a case of criminal negligence on the part of BP and Transocean.
“These latest revelations add to testimony given to the House Energy and Commerce Committee on Wednesday, which revealed that in spite of major warnings of a pending disaster even in the hours and minutes leading up to the explosion, the decision was taken to proceed, and no extra precautions were taken to protect rig workers.”
Unbelievable the cost-cutting attempts and shortcuts in safety and procedures by such a profitable and dangerous industry. I’ll sure be watching how this all plays out. Yeah, let’s continue to deregulate these guys and let the free market reign – cause they have such strong moral compasses – NOT!
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By: Poolman on May 29, 2010
at 12:01 PM
Why do people still believe this is the best country and everyone else is wrong? If you say something to the contrary we are not patriotic. Well guess what, I don’t feel very patriotic, when we have a bunch of lunatic teabaggers running around! Our country is a mess. Helen I appreciate your words of sanity!
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By: gadem on May 29, 2010
at 11:10 AM
From Craig earlier up :”I will continue to monitor this site as it displays all that is inherently wrong with America at this current time. It is a microcosm of liberal bias and hate that feeds on lies in order to perpetrate the agenda of those who would prefer to see America on her knees”(Craig on May 25, 2010 at 2:57 PM)
GBO, honestly,keyed with a straight stalwarted face/mindset that figures such mouthed would be non partisanly believeable ? WOWZERINO and thensome with another ahem, sure thing and W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R and moving along so thankful for scrollability !!!
Adding, tht find it quite disheartening to hear far too many and frankly , the ‘far too many” quoptient is like any number above a mere ten…but hearing folks proclaim that time to take country “back” and proclaim how MUST get righteous conservatives elevated to elected posts where they can weave magically and undo any progressive pattern, well, is damnable appalling at BEST and scary a well !! WHO in the right mind WOULD really want to reinstall any Republican or a T-partier in as a rein holder at this point in time and have audacity to figure would somehow solve problems –especially being as so many “problems” were “enabled” by similars…U-N-B-L-I-E-V-E-A-B-L-E and cause to question the saniety aspect or at least the intelligence factor of those so expounding and determined. Will NOT say overjoyed with Dems but surely a whole helle of alot better option than the carion gopers that are afield and afoot !!!
(Look at Bobby J down in LA –bemoaned BIG GOVT and denigrated anything Obama/Dem and yet sure has been willing to scarf up federal $$$ , will be so for some time to come and demands THEY, the FED(Obama) govt DO SOMETING ASAP and fix this mess and blah, blah as well as slipping in that OIL drilling/etc is an important employer/provider in his parts and , and, and…PUH-LEEZE and thensome and that goes for other Govenors and others down there rattling the cages and etc…IF THEY HAVE THE SOLUTION, they SHOULD be speaking up –problem is NO ONE HAS >>>THE<<<<solution and that is reality but an awful lot of time is wasted on nonensical finger pointing and toss abouts.
Absurdity still on parade with BP and their counterpartners…yesterday, 2-300 "workers" were transported in for photo-ops during the Presidents visit…arrived in the early AM, issued "costumes", sent to beach to do a bit of raking but as soon as Prez departed, so did they as well…Have NOt heard if they "returned" today…rather doubt it and with a btw, there ARE indeed folks available for HIRE directly in the "region/locality"…the unemployed fishermen/etc who have even had "training" in clean up but just NO EMPLOYMENT /income producing offers from BP or the GOVT –BP is the "official" employer so mostly rests o THEIR decisons–and some questioning should be done on the matter. Further notation, those workers bussed in, were from a "work-release program–ie prisoners…perhaps low cost employees but meanwhile, the fishermen/etc are still UNEMPLOYED and no income due to the BP spill catosrophe –likely will BE unemployed for sometime far into the future from their original "trade" as so much damage has been done and not easily correctible (for which we ALL wil be chipping in to pay for one way or another !!!! Think taxes, fee's, costs of "material" goods , etc, etc, etc…you name it…all WILL be effected/affected !!! and note, even if hold BP accountable/responsible…"we" are the ones who will ultimitely PAY for their mistakes !!!)ARrrrrrrrrrrgh and gagarino and thensome , gets rather overwhelmingly dismal in outlook for sure !!! Damed if/when DO or DON'T, no way arond it !!!
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By: Buttons44 on May 29, 2010
at 11:08 AM
DADT Repeal is attached to the defense spending budget that includes the fighter aircraft the Pentagon DOES NOT want at all. But Congressional members in their need to maintain their states’ umbilical cord to Federal $$ is insisting that the Pentagon MUST have those aircrafts. Uh huh. Perhaps it’s time for the line item veto. . . .
either way, the defense budget isn’t going to make anyone happy – if it passes, DADT will be repealed, if it passes, the Pentagon is stuck with jet aircraft it neither wants nor needs, and if it doesn’t pass, DADT will remain in force, our troops overseas will not get their funding, and so it’s either screw the gays, the taxpayers, the soldiers – and who ends up winning? Those members of congress who have big defense contracts in their states. And that, folks, is all that matters – keeping Big Oil, Big Defense, and Bullshit happy. Personally, I’m worn out. Tired, but not down and out. . .yet.
And I laugh at the desperation of anyone who is trying to lay the full blame for the oil spill on Obama. This is a BP issue – no, it’s a BIG OIL problem that they brought on themselves with their demand for deregulation and the coziness between the MMS & the very industry they’re supposed to regulate. The MMS is a bit like having the drug lords oversee our border to keep out illegal immigrants – ain’t gonna happen. Most of the inspectors and regulators in MMS were formerly Big Oil people and they aren’t about to harm the industry that paid them well, nor will they harm the industry that will reward them well after they leave civil service. After all, what’s a few drugs, sex, porn, and parties between friends? *wink wink*. While we’ve all been focused on trying to “change” the DC culture, we failed to realize that that culture isn’t limited to just Congress. It’s ALL over the damn place – from the Federal govt on down to your local City Commissioners. We call it the good old boys network, but in reality it’s nothing more than scamming the American Public. . .but as long as the scam works in our local favor, we’re happy to be Winkin’ Blinkin & Nod
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By: Greytdog on May 29, 2010
at 9:46 AM
Poolman, et al…
I received an email from Alan Grayson, Congressman from Florida. In part it reads:
“Next week, there is going to be a “debate” in Congress on yet another war funding bill. The bill is supposed to pass without debate, so no one will notice.
What George Orwell wrote about in “1984” has come true. What Eisenhower warned us about concerning the “military-industrial complex” has come true. War is a permanent feature of our societal landscape, so much so that no one notices it anymore.”
Am I crazy, or is this country on a path to flame-out? What’s wrong with these people?
I believe this would not be possible without the horrible education system in this country. I don’t remember who said it, but one of the Founding Fathers observed that a democratic republic could not work without an educated populace. Why do people not see that the federal govt has been reading Orwell, and has figured out that the path to complete totalitarianism lies in a system of permanent wars? And under Bush-the-Lesser, they figured out how to avoid the protests of Vietnam (I was involved in those) by a)driving the economy into the toilet, so that young men and women will be forced to join the “volunteer” army, thus avoiding an unpopular draft, and b)doing it all on a Chinese credit card, so nobody will notice the trillions of dollars going down the poop chute every day. And I’m not too goddamned happy with the Obama adminstration, either…
I can’t wait for November. I can taste it.
Sorry. Lost my head there for a minute. Rant over.
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By: PFesser53 on May 29, 2010
at 7:58 AM
Jean and Lori –
Those are great stories! Sometime I will regale you with some similar – but hopefully more lighthearted – stories I gleaned from my ancestors and older neighbors, sitting on the dark evening porch at my parents’ home when I was a child.
I am sure I am exceedingly dense, but there seems to be a message here. I think I am missing it. Can you help me understand? Have you been threatened, or am I reading too much into the posts?
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 29, 2010
at 7:32 AM
President Obama’s
Weekly Address 5/29/10
Ahead of Memorial Day, the President asks all Americans to join him in remembering and honoring those who have died in service to the country.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on May 29, 2010
at 6:22 AM
This is a personal story so those not interested get your scroll fingers ready ! LOL and TY M&H for indulging me.. 😉
LOL Auntie Jean your story makes me smile.. and reminds me of my beloved Dad.
I have a similar story … I too come from pretty brave stock… Cowards are a 4 letter word in my house.
I worked my way through college as a fashion model. Unfortunately one of my biggest fans also was a serial sex offender with a particular attraction towards feet! LOL This a hole stalked and followed me all summer, showing up whereever I happened to be working, doing all sorts of yuckie stuff.. The police and various security guards were never able to “catch” him in the act and to this point elluded arrest.
One night, on my way home from work, this a hole rearends me at a stop sign in an attempt to push my car off the road into a ditch… I guess… We lived in a fairly remote area and there was nuttin but cows and deer between me and my parents house… (this was wayyyyy before the time of cell phones..) Well by the grace of God.. I made it to my parents house him following close behind..
I frantically pulled into our drive, way blowing the horn and screaming…. the a hole drives off.
I told my father the story… he was a gentle, kind, loving, pillar of the community, X Army (WW2) man of few words… He said not a word but went upstairs got his deer rifle, loaded it, and came down the stairs and said “lets go get this bastard on way or another!” OMG!!!!!!!!… out the door we go.. I asked him where we were going? He said “to the police station”.. LOL
My family was very political and well known in our area the local police were all good friends of my parents, one officer was my God Father. My father drives to the station…. walks in… walks right up to the officer and puts his finger in the officers chest and says “you have one hour to find this bastard or I will and I will kill him.. I promise you that! LOL … It was like something out of a movie!…. Then dad said the time starts now.. He looked at his watch .. then sat down calmly as the officer gather the information from me.. and then off he went…! We waited until the officer returned.
I later asked my father what he was thinking? He could have been arrested for zillion reasons that night …??? he simply said they couldn’t have done anything worse to him, including jail, that would have hurt him more than the thought of me being hurt by that bastard…;-)
Oh and yeah they got the guy that night… My father went to the trial…. you can imagine the rest of the story.. LOl
So I too say BRING IT ON…. It takes me alot to get angry but when I do… GAME ON! lol
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By: lori on May 29, 2010
at 4:46 AM
Hi Congenial Gang,
I told you before about my dad and his six-shooter and how he was not very loquacious. As a little girl, I remember hearing the snap of the safety of his pistol on and off when he was picking off birds eating the ripe cherries in the orchard. I never thought much about it. This story is an indelible memory of what I witnessed when I was about 6 years old. My little sister was 2. I didn’t learn the details of what it was all about until much, much later.
At the time, we lived on a seventeen-acre property that was fairly remote. For years we had a huge dog. He was half German Shepherd and half Collie, all black with a white blaze down his throat and white paws. Mom always said he looked like he had on a tuxedo. He was about as gentle as a lamb. My little sister and I rode him like a pony, pulled his tail and ears but he always came back for more, infinitely patient with both of us. He never, ever barked. Never, ever bit or nipped anybody. However, just let a stranger come around and he would bristle, stiffen and bare his teeth with a low menacing growl. Then he looked as ferocious as a beast from hell.
Several times we saw a big black car drive up and a large burly looking man come to the front door. Mom didn’t answer it and the man went away. I didn’t know why. Later, one early evening while it was still light, my dad was home from work and out the window we could see that big black car turn into the driveway again. My dad calmly unlocked the gun case, got his holster and pistol out and buckled them on. My little sister and I were sort of hiding and watching from behind mom’s skirt.
The man knocked on the door. With our dog by his side, my dad opened the door, shoved the barrel of the six-shooter into the paunch of the man’s gut and quietly said, “What do you want?” The man blanched, his eyes rolled back in his head and he started to weave. I heard the snap of the safety on the gun as dad quickly holstered the gun and grabbed the man just as he was slipping to the floor of the porch. The man was stammering “Pru-pru-pru!”
Dad helped him into the house and sat him down at the dining room table. Mom got the man some water and he started to come around. They talked quietly for a while. Then with smiles and handshakes, dad escorted the man to the door. The big burly man got into his big black car and drove away.
Here’s the whole story. This was about the time when the Great Depression was starting to wind down in 1935. It had been a rough time for everyone. There was a crooked politician who had been indicted on a laundry list of counts for serious corruption. My dad and quite a large number of men had been called to testify against the politician at trial. Apparently it was a big deal because it dominated the headlines of the local and Denver papers for months as the investigation dragged on. Years later I saw a folder with some yellowed newspaper clippings. The politician’s name was Gelwick. Some threats toward the potential testifying men and their families had been made, directly and individually to the men; of course to keep them from appearing at the trial.
So my dad told my mom to keep an eye out and not to open the door to anyone we didn’t know. Naturally, I was not aware of any of this at the time. I was just a happy little kid. But it must have been a tense time for my parents.
Also at the time, my parents had whole life insurance policies on each of the family members with Prudential Insurance Co. Ultimately, those policies were cashed in at full value. Prudential was a solid company then. Those policies were five cents a week for each member. A Prudential agent came around once a week to collect the thirty cents and mark a card paid and the amount and in his book. We knew our agent very well. You guessed it. Our agent was sick so the big burly guy in the big black car was his substitute!
My dad and all the other men testified, Gelwick was found guilty on all counts and went to prison.
Maybe it’s hereditary, but I don’t think much of cowards and am not intimidated by petty bully wanna-bes.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 29, 2010
at 12:54 AM
And no employment either!
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By: Anonymous on May 28, 2010
at 10:08 PM
JuneauJoe
Always the consummate gentleman.
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 9:32 PM
I lived in New Orleans for a year back in the 90’s. One Sunday afternoon, I decided to drive south on Hwy. 23 and drive until I couldn’t go any farther–to the end of Louisiana. I guess my main objective was just to find some alligators in the wild and maybe get some great photos.
I couldn’t believe that the highway ended at an oil refinery. I literally saw the highway end at the front gates to a huge complex filled with smoke stacks. There ended my vision of the mighty Mississippi flowing into the gulf.
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By: vgman on May 28, 2010
at 9:23 PM
Just Scroll Past our resident Troll – He really is a sad fellow who is needing attention. Do him a favor and scroll over his posts.
“No friends, no hobbies, no life” my thoughts exactly.
Have a great Memorial Day and weekend!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 28, 2010
at 9:13 PM
First time commentor here.
LOVE LOVE LOVE Margaret & Helen!!!
I just don’t understand why this “Craig” person comments so often. Should I just assume that he has no friends…no hobbies…no life?? He is everything a troll is and more. So sad really.
Anyway, LOVE LOVE LOVE Margaret & Helen!!!
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By: Marianna on May 28, 2010
at 6:59 PM
My pool is open, Poolman. I couldn’t help but think of you when the thingie under the filter cover was cracked and sent off a huge rooster tail of water, LOL! We replaced it and it’s ready to go. The air’s hot, the water’s not. It’s above ground so we don’t heat it. Only the hardiest souls, or my husband when he mows, will get in right now.
Good information again… Sometimes I get weary and think it would be better not to learn some of this stuff because the more I learn the more I need to learn and much of it sickens me. The powerlessness is tough and I am tempted to just ignore it and stay in my relatively secluded life of working hard, raising (and being a taxi) for my children, and paying my bills. Being passive takes so much less energy, you know? But I’m not wired that way so I’m glad for the nuggets of information that keep me seeking truth.
Jean, I am so glad I could help you outsmart your cantankerous pc to live another day!
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 28, 2010
at 6:13 PM
From a Venice La. Advertisement for fishing:
Why Fish in Venice
You might be thinking “why should I fish in Venice, Louisiana… Where is this place?”
Venice is quite literally, at the ‘end of the road’, south of New Orleans about 70 miles on Highway 23. The road ends here.
The fishing is fantastic in Venice, as the location is perfect. Venice is where the Mississippi river spills into the Gulf of Mexico. This means that millions of tons of nutrients flow down the river right through Venice Louisiana. Think of it as a massive fish feeder. The nutrient rich waters that rush down the mighty Mississippi begin the food chain. The plankton and oxygen rich waters create vegetation growth. The vegetation life increases oxygen and the bait fish are drawn closer to shore thus bringing the largest migration of Pelagic Specie fish in the Gulf of Mexico close enough for Charter fishing. This means that tons of tuna and other offshore fish live just offshore from Venice.
Cover is the 3rd reason Venice Louisiana is a preferred destination for serious anglers. Just offshore from Venice are massive oil and gas platforms, which act as an artificial reef. South Louisiana has more structure than any other region of the Gulf bar none. AND the other areas don’t even come close to having the structure we have. Oil Rigs create their own eco-system and produce the safe environment bait fish like to hide among. And if you’ve been reading you remember bait fish bring the big fish… So, Walla; you have the ingredients for world class fishing right here in Venice Louisiana. Many people do not realize this, but Venice Louisiana has the best offshore fishing in the United States.
If you are not a “Serious” angler and you have not travelled the world over fishing you may be asking the question, if it’ so good why am I just now hearing about Venice Louisiana. ANSWER: Internet. Venice is quite possibly the last fishing village in the United States of American. There is nothing here, there is no tourism, and there is no publicity outside of south Louisiana. Venice has remained a quiet fishing town for years. But make no mistake; if you are a serious about having a good time with some offshore blue water fishing, Venice is the place.
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 6:05 PM
“But like much of the huge corporates that seem to have control of our leaders and therefore our lives, you can’t go by what is on the surface.”
Poolman
…and that goes for both sides of the aisle.
So they say the oil is at almost 3K feet below the water. I do not know how the currents work down there..but there are many and they go out like a spider.
http://kingfish.coastal.edu/gulfstream/p2.htm
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 5:55 PM
Greytdog, it truly has been a shell game. The price and supply of oil has been manipulated by our government and the oil companies in an effort to get us addicted to oil over the years. I remember discovering the government was subsidizing it when my dad was stationed in Germany during my youth. We saw what the REAL market value of fuel was. Americans were paying less than market value – close to 50 percent less, I recall. We were given gas credits to use in the local marketplace. At home, bigger and thirstier vehicles became the trend. We were being sucked into this dependence, and we loved every irresponsible moment of it. We have a lot more cars registered in this country than we have drivers for. We are exposed to oil and oil by-products in our everyday lives. It truly is in our blood.
Overall, oil companies have managed to keep a pretty good public image, except for a few hard-to-disquise disasters. They pay big bucks for that reputation. All that enviroment stuff they sponsor and espouse is part of the cost of the PR. Remember, it’s all about the marketing. In America, we have achieved the greatest marketing skills ever, I believe. Look at our culture. Look at our ideals. The multi-media has done a wonderful job of shaping our lives.
But like much of the huge corporates that seem to have control of our leaders and therefore our lives, you can’t go by what is on the surface. If you examine the oil companies a little closer, underneath it all they are some of the greatest polluters and destroyers of eco-systems this planet has ever known. Many oil leaks and spills go unreported and are covered over in an effort to avoid fines. Little regard is given for the environment until the press is on the scene.
I have seen the countryside where oil is drilled, pumped, and collected. The mess and waste associated with drilling for oil is enormous. I have known areas where oil waste has leached to underground water sources. How much conservation do you think is practiced out in the ocean miles from view? How many global users of oil practice safe disposal or recycling? When will reclaiming of oil be deemed more beneficial due to its environment impact rather than how cost effective it is? Maybe this disaster will help us get our heads and hands out of big oil’s slimy crevices.
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By: Poolman on May 28, 2010
at 4:06 PM
Greytdog I’ve worked with the people and companies
down there. From Lafayette south the state economy is either oil or fishing. I’m sure there are many families that have relatives who work both industries. So its not like they have not either thought this could happen, but knew it was very possible one day. So one multi-billion dollar business is cohabiting with another and have for decades. I’m sure both are working their asses off to get all back to normal.
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 3:36 PM
Speaking of oily rivers…
This environmental catastrophe will have dramatic global ecological implications before it’s done, for longer than any of us will live. The “real patriots” out there who only care about the US may want to take note that the oil is now hitting the 2300+ miles long Mississippi river.
Sure hope the top kill procedure is ultimately successful in stopping the hemhorraging because this problem is already bigger than we can even visualize, let alone remediate.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 28, 2010
at 3:01 PM
I believe we lack the refinery capacity to utilize the oil immediately. I favor natural gas.
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By: Anonymous on May 28, 2010
at 2:35 PM
Cry me a river, Craig.. . cry me a mucky, oily, devastated river ecosystem brought to all of us by our addiction to Big Oil and their “shell” game.
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By: Greytdog on May 28, 2010
at 1:58 PM
Well its economics.
Obviously it costs to drill and recover the oil. You have to admit its not cheap to take all that equipment and people fifty miles offshore.
So do you want to sell the oil at a cheap price or wait till it goes up. Its supply and demand.
Kinda like health care…
What? Does everyone want a free gas card now?
I guess that’s next on the agenda… Oil for everyone and the oil man must give it to them at a loss..
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 1:48 PM
Thanks, Delurker Girl Δ. I think you and I share a lot of the same beliefs.
“I have done all that I could to see the evil and the good without hiding…”
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By: Poolman on May 28, 2010
at 12:36 PM
It seems we’re back to the baiting part of the song that doesn’t end. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0)
Poolman, thank you for always bringing useful information. You are a bright spot on this blog.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 28, 2010
at 12:00 PM
PFesser53, my mother is fullblood Italian. Her parents lived in NY and NJ all their lives. My GF passed away a few years back. His family came here from the old country in 1904 and settled in Tuckahoe, opening a bakery there. Also there was a coke bottling plant near there that somehow our family was involved with.
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By: Poolman on May 28, 2010
at 11:52 AM
Poolman re: 11:40 am post
Now you have me agreeing with you 100%. You have to stop that, dammit.
I think of how I would feel if I were an Afghani man whose only means to feed – I mean literally FEED – his wife and children was to grown opium poppies, and a bunch of overbearing sons-of-bitches sprayed my crop with herbicide and then burned it.
Would I get suicidally crazy? You goddamned bet I would.
This adventuring HAS to stop. It is morally wrong on every level I can conceive. Come November, I am going to do my level best to put some new blood in Washington.
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By: PFesser53 on May 28, 2010
at 11:51 AM
Poolman –
Your point is well taken. My reading, if I remember it right, said that when the explosion occurred they were in the process of capping the well for later use and were going to move on to another drill site.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 28, 2010
at 11:40 AM
PFesser53, that same link was posted earlier in this thread by Stephan on May 18, 2010 at 12:58 PM. I am sure we have people from all countries within our borders that are not here legally – especially now that we have made it much more difficult to be here legally. But, as we have seen, terrorists come from every nationality and race. Some have legal means to be where they are, others not. That doesn’t seem to have any bearing on their ability to perform their attrocities.
What has served to recruit and solidify their hatred and vengence toward us, is our escalating war on terror. The illegal invasion and occupation of lands resulting in massive civilian casualties don’t win us any allies. Manipulating governments and propping up regimes don’t build trust. Trampling over sacred lands, destroying shrines and cultural artifacts, insulting and ignoring local customs – all of which we have done and continue to do – doesn’t earn respect or cooperation.
If I lived in any of these lands that we consider friendly to terrorists, I would be in constant fear of attack from the US or it’s allies. The safest place to move would be to someplace that wasn’t targeted for invasion. Maybe I would feel safer immigrating to the Americas. Maybe that is why some of the people of those countries are coming here. Or maybe they ARE interested in undermining our country. Don’t you think we have given many a good reason to hate us?
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By: Poolman on May 28, 2010
at 11:40 AM
Craig, even if we stop drilling today, we have been drilling for decades and are merely capping the wells, waiting on the price to go up before we start production from any of those wells. Likely the same plan would have been done with the one that blew and is spewing uncontrollably and polluting the gulf right now.
I have a good friend out there in Lubbock that worked in the oilfield on a drilling rig during the 70’s and 80’s. They were continually drilling and capping wells all around Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. Even when prices went up over 100 dollars per barrel, these wells were not put into production.
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By: Poolman on May 28, 2010
at 10:50 AM
Hmmm….
I notice Nancy did not respond to the post. What’s the matter, no ideas?
Clearly, BP has been negligent, and regulations have been swept aside as govt agencies have failed to do their jobs. (Too much porn to watch and dinners to go to, I guess. Ah, a regulator’s work is never done.)
But the fact is we all burn gas, don’t we Nancy? And to my untrained eye, while the ultimate answer is electric autos (I LIKE electricity), in the meantime our choices lie between buying Arab oil and sending more money to the middle east so it can be used to further radical Islam, or drilling for our own oil.
So which do you support, Nancy? After all, your car won’t run on piss.
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By: Anonymous on May 28, 2010
at 10:31 AM
Craig,
You are nothing but trash.
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By: Nancy R. on May 28, 2010
at 10:12 AM
Don’t just say “state” put profits above health and safety.
Our Federal govt. has granted leases and Obama has even pushed for offshore drilling in Atlantic waters. Offshore drilling has been going on for over 70 plus years. Now your going to stop for one accident?
And your going to go where today in your car on what?..Fumes?
What’s a dead pelican between friends anyway?
Bait?
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 9:53 AM
For as long as I can remember, the Florida Panhandle beaches were always in Dr. Beach’s top 10 list. Not this year – thanks to BP. This will really hit the tourism business up there – especially with this being memorial weekend. A group from Central Florida is heading up the Panhandle for Memorial Day – but not to party. To clean up. To try and save the wildlife. To try and save our fisheries. To try and save the Gulf of Mexico. Folks across the state, regardless of political affiliation, are joining together to save our coastline(s). We know what can happened when that oil gets into the Gulf Stream. The only “good” that has come out of this damn catastrophe is that people are now understanding why so many folks are opposed to offshore drilling in the Gulf. Louisiana sold its soul to the oil companies – and are now seeing what happens when the state govt puts profits above public health & safety. Too bad that it takes a spill of this magnitude to wake people up. I guess we’ve forgotten the lessons of the Exxon Valdez. Trust me, though, BP hasn’t – and they will drag out the lawsuits, pay off some more politicians, buy a few more Congressional members, and all will be as it was – business as usual. Our barrier islands, our marshlands, our Deltas, our beaches, our fisheries, our tourism will all continue to reel for years from this debacle, but hey! That’s the price we pay for our addiction to fossil fuel. What’s a dead pelican between friends anyway?
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By: Greytdog on May 28, 2010
at 9:35 AM
Jim,
I really would like to converse xcept,
I’m not Italian…
My wife is half.
Her grand parents were full blooded
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 9:23 AM
Jim,
I really would like to converse xcept,
I’m not Italian…
My wife is half.
Her grand parents were full blooded
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 28, 2010
at 9:22 AM
Professor,
You should have an e-mail in your box.
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 9:09 AM
Craig –
Open up another gmail account. It is free. I have many spam trap emails that I never check. After we converse, you can never check it again or close it. Gmail is excellent about spam and you can block whomever you please if they are giving you a hard time.
Don’t be dense. I need to talk to you. Last try.
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By: PFesser53 on May 28, 2010
at 8:44 AM
I have trusted only one other person on this site with my address and they have been kind enough to just keep it between us with a cordial exchange of info.
Sorry Professor. I’d just prefer to keep it private for now.
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 8:34 AM
PFesser53 ,
Would love to send you an e-mail..But afraid it would then be pasted across the internet for all these
cretins to fill my box.
My wife’s Grand Father was pure Italian and lived in Philly. Nicole Masciulli married to Giatani. They had fourteeen kids. He had a restaurant and speak easy during prohibition and also operated a carousel in Sea Isle City before a hurricane took it out in late 50’s. He lived to 97 and died in 71, I believe. Since he could not pronounce Craig or preferred not to.., he called me Gregorio.
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 8:31 AM
My avatar is different because I had to come in thru another server and another name. That was when booted off by Donna back in 09.
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By: Craig on May 28, 2010
at 8:20 AM
My avatar is different because I had to come in thru another server and another name. That was when booted off by Donna back in 09.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 28, 2010
at 8:18 AM
I apologise – my doctor friend sent me two links. Here’s the second:
http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 28, 2010
at 6:33 AM
To Craig –
Did you mention that your ancestry was Italian? How long ago? I have some in-laws who are Italian and Spanish (my sister-in-law’s father was full-blooded Spanish and her mother Italian – both immigrants).
I am helping her do some genealogy and we have traced some relatives in the northeast. Would you mind shooting me an email?
pfesser53 at gmail dot com
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 28, 2010
at 6:26 AM
A doctor-friend of mine from Austin sent me this link:
http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html
Comments?
PFesser
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By: PFesser53 on May 28, 2010
at 6:21 AM
Delurker–the avatars are very similar (the current one and the original Craig one) but the writing styles are not at all. And you don’t plagiarize.
After the repeated “Gregorio” denials (oh, no–I’m not Craig), the troll has zero credibility.
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By: Donna on May 28, 2010
at 6:13 AM
I only wish Craig/Gregorio/Captain’s mother had eaten her young.
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By: R.D. on May 28, 2010
at 6:09 AM
Donna, I think in this case we might have been wrong because what we thought we saw would implicate me, not Craig. This time. He’s trained us to suspect him though so he can hardly be surprisedw hen we do, and you were totally right about his MO.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 28, 2010
at 5:13 AM
from Key West, FL Shrimpboat 12 miles from Dry Tortugas Today reporting
oil on their nets
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By: palinshutup on May 28, 2010
at 1:33 AM
Trolls are just so boringly obvious. I say we take a cue from Carol Brady and sent Carlos to join his fellows in stopping up the oil well in the Gulf. I’ll grab his feet………
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By: Gramiam on May 27, 2010
at 11:50 PM
God Its interesting to watch you all eat your young.
Donna get over it……
I have not posted for a few days..but now I’m Carlos?
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By: Craig on May 27, 2010
at 10:17 PM
Donna, actually I think Carol morphed into Carlos. Same perspective and writing style.
Hope everyone is well. I am so sick of this oil mess, it occupies most of my thoughts. What an arrogant race we are! I can’t believe the response and coverup attempts by BP. Unregulated and self-serving huge corporate behemoths! I hope we don’t ever drill anymore oilwells. So many are merely drilled and capped, awaiting a future rise in cost/demand.
They have tankers full of oil waiting out near Singapore until prices go up, before they are willing to unload. They could be utilizing these resources to recoup all this spewing oil. This is so frustrating. My prayers are with all those affected by this. In reality it will impact us all in this generation. Yeah, we’re the superior race, for sure.
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By: Poolman on May 27, 2010
at 9:41 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, donna, Jim and Delurker Girl,
Oh yeah, donna. You are the first to pick up on the latest reincarnaion.
Jim, I checked out my Gee Whiz, Iron Clad, Almost-Up-to-the-Pentagon’s-Type Security System for viruses and worms. My computer guru installed it when he ‘did’ my website. I trust it. It updates twice daily and quite often when I am working on it, I get brief little windows telling me that “An Intrusion Has Been Blocked.”
Delurker Girl, I tried your ‘Start-Run-etc.” tip. Voila! It worked!!! Found my Control Panel and all its stuff. You don’t suppose I could have hit the wrong button or buttons somewhere along the line, do you?
Poor Old Petulent Penelope still has some problems tho and some of them may be laid on me. I think she was ‘Compaq Serial Number 3.’ We have replaced the monitor, but the rest is original equipment, kept together with band-aids and chewing gum. I have also replaced the mouse a number of times.
I have played the piano since I was 7. When I get going fast, I have a tendency to come down on the keyboard the same way I would on the piano for short words such as ‘the’, or ‘and’, with either the left hand, then the right; sometimes both hands together like I would chords. Penelope doesn’t like that. But it was worse with my old Royal typewriter. When I did that, the keys would get all jammed up and I’d get ink all over my fingers trying to unscramble them. Sigh, old habits die hard.
Thanks for your help, both of you. You could send me a bill. Naw.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 27, 2010
at 8:39 PM
^^^ repeal of DADT, I mean.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 27, 2010
at 8:30 PM
The House has passed the bill that includes DADT.
I was flipping channels a little bit ago and saw a homophobe going over statistics that he thinks show that sexual abuse in the military will rise because of this. Why? Because 8% of the sexual assaults are committed by homosexuals. On and on he droned while all I could think was – just who does he think commits the other 92% and what does this say about them?
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 27, 2010
at 8:28 PM
You know, Delurker: think of how much of a complete loser someone has to be to go to a site that has a particular bent and post something ‘insulting.’ It’s the equivalent of “nyah, nyah..you’re a poopie head.”
Wouldn’t occur to me to go to, say, Free Republic or Sea of Pee and post something. Much less something someone else wrote and I didn’t even have the originality to come up with. A regular Festival of Nothingness, that one is.
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By: Donna on May 27, 2010
at 7:18 PM
Yep, Donna.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 27, 2010
at 7:11 PM
yawn…check the old avatar. Carlos is Craig is Gregorio. Of course, the best indication is that this is another example of plagiarizing without attribution.
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By: Donna on May 27, 2010
at 6:56 PM
Pick Your Reason
When your friends can’t explain why they voted for Democrats, give them this list. They can then pick a reason. (I personally like No 1)
10. I voted Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn’t.
9. I voted Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.
8. I voted Democrat because Freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.
7. I voted Democrat because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.
6. I voted Democrat because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don’t start driving a Prius.
5. I voted Democrat because I’m not concerned about the slaughter of millions of babies through abortion so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.
4. I voted Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits.
3. I voted Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the democrats see fit.
2. I voted Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would never get their agendas past the voters.
1. I voted Democrat because my head is so firmly planted up my ass that it is unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view.
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By: Carlos on May 27, 2010
at 6:44 PM
Those who have the means have the responsibility to make noise for those who cant speak for themselves. A great example; James Carville and Mary Matalin they started banging the pots and pans because they were outraged and didnt stop till they had the microphones in front of them.
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By: palinshutup on May 27, 2010
at 4:53 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, jsri and Elizabeth2 on May 23, 2010 at 4:40PM,
As we wait helplessly in a state of suspended animation for news on how the Gulf oil disaster is playing out, I wonder. Why is it that the same conservatives who are so vehemently and ideologically opposed to big governmental interference and oversight, are now all for that same government to take over and ‘fix’ the problem – with ‘taxpayer money’, of course. (Save the asses of Big Oil now. Too big to fail.)
Are there any politicians who are engineers, physicists, chemists, geologists, botanists, biologists, oceanographers and marine biologists with the expertise to handle a disaster of this magnitude? Me, I’m none of the above! Where are we going to get qualified people to deal with such? India or China? Or those ‘socialist’ countries of Europe and Canada? The U. S. public school system has not been turning out scientists in over abundant numbers in several generations. Formal education starts in kindergarten. The Exxon Valdez spill was 20+ years ago. Too much neglect for way too long on too many issues.
While I’m on the subject of scientists, we need dentists as well as cardiologists for the health and well-being of everyone. Also, perhaps we should learn the difference between meteorologists; the guys and gals who report the short-term forecasts for the next five days or so on the nightly news in our living rooms or bedrooms; and the climatologists who study long-term trends and forecasts. Wouldn’t it be nice if the scientific community had the chance to work together toward the success of goals with built-in preventive measures as well as the inevitable remedial ones?
Anyway, on to less disturbing topics. jsri, I just finished reading a novel you and your wife might be interested in. You too Elizabeth2. One of our sons gave it to us for Christmas and I was just now getting around to reading it. It’s very easy for our kids to shop for gifts for us. All they have to do is go to Borders and load up on books – of any kind. This book is a classic, first published in 1971 by Wallace Stegner, “Angle of Repose”. It’s a tale of the pioneering spirit of the Old Wild and Wooly West. The descriptions of the country and life in those times are stunning. It makes you feel as if you are there!
I can identify with much of it since my mother, a gentile Southern lady married a handsome young Western widower with two small children, ages 3 and 5; and they went to live in a small mining town in Northern Colorado. He was a taciturn man, working in a mine running two miles under a large lake. That is, until for the sake of his life and health, my mother agitated enough to get him out of the mine and the family out of the canyon when I was 3.
It brings to mind the most recent mine disaster that has been eclipsed by the Gulf crisis. Another case of lack of regulation and oversight.
My dad had guns. But he didn’t use his six-shooter in a local saloon or corral to take out the bad guys. (Or wolves from a helicopter for sport.) Well, there was one incident that could have been serious but turned out all right. Dad didn’t have to shoot the guy but nearly scared him to death. Rather my dad used his six-shooter to pick off birds pecking up the ripe cherries in our orchard. He had a dead aim. The mine ultimately took a toll on his health but with an unexpected twist. He died at 67.
My mother always retained her gentile Southern ways but embraced the Old Western pioneer spirit. To her dying day in 1978, she viewed pre-wrapped chicken parts in the supermarket with suspicion. They weren’t fresh enough. Much better to go out to the country and buy a few live ones, take them home, chop off their heads with a hatchet, and hang ‘em upside down for the blood to run out. Then we kids got to pluck ‘em and singe ‘em, ready for cooking.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 27, 2010
at 4:39 PM
The area that really gets the shaft is the Mississippi Delta region. They’re still waiting for state and national assistance – Katrina poured a lot of salt into that once-fertile region. Now the oil is moving in and turning a very rich loam into an oil-soaked sponge that may never recover. What are those scratch farmers supposed to do? Jindal and Barbour certainly don’t represent them nor do they plan to. Even Jesse Jackson ignores them unless they can be photo-oped. The only ones I’ve heard about who have consistently and without fail done something to help the Mississippi Delta folks is Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne, Morgan Freeman, and Harry Connick Jr. I doubt if we’ll hear anything from Vilsack until the Mississippi River flowing past Iowa is clogged with oil.
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By: Greytdog on May 27, 2010
at 2:06 PM
fiona, it is obvious there is much cover up going on within BP and that the President is livid. That is the impression I got from this morning’s press conference.
If there is one good thing to come out of this disaster, several actually, drilling in the Arctic and VA has been nixed.
The push towards clean energy will be stronger than ever, more jobs and industries will flourish from it.
Tighter regulations for existing drilling.
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By: palinshutup on May 27, 2010
at 12:47 PM
Palinshutup wrote; Why does that area always get the shaft?
Back during Katrina, it was painfully obvious: NOLA and the LA coast are not very wealthy areas, and thus not a huge priority. (The response in Houston during Katrina was rapid and huge …)
Obama had the Coast Guard on the scene within the first 24 hours of this spill, and BP/Transocean/Halliburton have spent the whole time pointing fingers at who should repair it.
Seems that a lot of MSM is now reporting that there were whistleblowers talking about shortcuts taken by BP/Transocean/Halliburton, warnings of the explosion, etc., but that they and others were held in seclusion (basically imprisoned) for more than 50 hours in order to try to keep a lid on the problem.
I am so disgusted by all of this that I’m not quite sure where to begin … so I’ll just stop here for now.
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By: fiona64 on May 27, 2010
at 12:15 PM
http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/
Link to Rachel Maddow 5/26/10 program
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By: dailyreader on May 27, 2010
at 9:44 AM
If that’s not bad enough, there are reports the seabed near the well head is fracturing, with new leaks forming. There were some reports of explosions a couple of days ago and folks noticing that the tape running after the explosion which was dirty was magically clean and broadcasting a previous date.
This blog has many useful
links and describes what happened the day the explosions took place with images.
Quote “regarding that video, it is being discussed in many places, except mainstream media of course, that there was a huge underwater explosion a couple of days ago and BP tried to cover it up with a previous tape, they were busted because the time stamp was different. I hadnt looked at it in a couple of days and when I saw it I was shocked by how much larger the gushing seemed and in how many other places 2 or three more –
Live cam capture:pipe collapse,new seabed methane eruptions, sinkhole and the real reason top kill was delayed”
more here
http://monkeyfister.blogspot.com/2010/05/major-change-down-below.html
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By: palinshutup on May 27, 2010
at 3:25 AM
I have to tell you, I dont agree with much of what B Jindal says except I cannot blame him for being upset and I think what he wants is to have the OK and funds so he can mobilize the fishermen who are out of work anyway and wish
to help with clean up.
The oil has already killed 100 miles of coastline and I have to say, I dont live there but I feel his frustration. Why does that area always get the shaft?
Anyone watch Rachel Maddow? She was comparing a similar Gulf spill in the 70s in only 200 feet, they tried the same things, 30 years later and the ‘technology’ to stop spills has not changed. Wow, that, reassuring huh?
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By: palinshutup on May 27, 2010
at 3:17 AM
I recently found this place, read through the blogs, and found I loved your opinions and outlook. I may not agree with everything, and some I don’t completely understand, since I live in Alberta Canada, but hell, I love the way you say it. Keep on blogging, keep on ranting, keep on smiling, and keep on living.
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By: Chris on May 26, 2010
at 4:51 PM
Honolulu Sally wrote: Perhaps Rand Paul and Sarah Palin see themselves as John Galt.
(I forgot to respond to this.)
Of course they do! And many of the “tea partiers” and assorted folks who worship at the feet of Rand, Paul and Palin fail to understand that there is no room for them at Galt’s Gulch.
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By: fiona64 on May 26, 2010
at 1:39 PM
Hi, Honolulu Sally. I’m glad you enjoyed the link. Your comment about reading Rand in high school (I did the same thing, and found her work a complete turnoff) reminds me of an old joke:
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
;->
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By: fiona64 on May 26, 2010
at 1:38 PM
fiona64,
Thanks for the link to Tim Wise regarding Rand Paul. What Rand (named after Ayn Rand?) Paul and his admirers need is to be physically transformed into a black person for a year. A walk in those shoes would do them good.
I followed the link to Ayn Rand – “emotionally deranged” = scary. I had read her books avidly in high school, and loved them. Of course, when one is in high school, the predominant attitude is one that disdains authority and puts self before all others. She sounds like she was a very sick person – looking down at the common people, admiring a psychopathic serial killer, displaying bizarre mean behavior. I have just re-read “Atlas Shrugged”, and now see it with a different view. Perhaps Rand Paul and Sarah Palin see themselves as John Galt.
That is, if Sarah Palin ever read the book. It does have a lot of pages in small font…
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 26, 2010
at 12:42 PM
Wow things happen here while I was away and moving!! I didn’t get through all the comments, but I do have a few things to say.
First off Kudos to Helen as ALWAYS! Will you be my grandma?
Now for the beef of my argument. It doesn’t matter what AZ law says or what federal law states. What matters is how its interpreted and the response to it period! Racial profiling is bound to happen given the complexity of the situation and the fact that there are less than moral cops out there.
We need to start labeling criminals as criminals and not caring whether or not they are legal residents. Even with the economic mess we are in it is still better to live up here than down there. If your children were suffering and the only way to make them not suffer was to illegally come into the states…. you would do the same damn thing.
Our welfare laws are shit! Unfortunately shit is putting it nicely. I say this as a disabled American who was denied Social Security twice before finally getting approved for anything. If these aliens are willing to work hard and do it the right way who cares if they are illegal. Just dont give them extra incentives to be a criminal either. Welfare, SS laws, healthcare etc need to be reformed A LOT better so that the people who deserve these programs can get them easily and those who want to screw around and be criminals don’t get shit and get punished…. Americans and non Americans alike.
Does anybody realize that typically illegals take the jobs in which Americans are unwilling or unable to do? (directed at trolls) GEEZ
Fix the programs… If people want to come to this country let them… Don’t give them anything unless they EARN it. If they commit a crime (drugs, burglaries, violence etc.) treat them like they really are… criminals…. instead of labeling them as illegals unnecessarily. Just because a criminal comes from Mexico doesn’t make him any worse than the criminals that already exist in the US.
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By: ddddd on May 26, 2010
at 12:13 PM
LOL re: Rand Paul.
BTW, don’t know if any of the good folks here on the porch read Tim Wise, but his latest essay (discussing Rand Paul’s politics and their basis) is quite fascinating: http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/rationalizing-white-supremacy-racism-free-markets-and-morally-obtuse-rand-paul
I’ve bookmarked it to re-read and comment later; Wise makes some excellent points.
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By: fiona64 on May 26, 2010
at 10:54 AM
Speaking of “drill baby drill”, I find it amusing to see that Palin’s choice in Idaho lost. And that Rand Paul seems to be having a hard time explaining how someone so anti-govt wants to have a govt job.
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By: Greytdog on May 26, 2010
at 10:47 AM
Couple of things that are pertinent to recent conversation:
Illinois is now trying to deport a US citizen to Mexico: http://tinyurl.com/2c5wwrq
Philippe Cousteau has done a dive into the Gulf of Mexico to look at the oil spill from below and called it a nightmare: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Cousteau+dives+into+nightmare+slick/3073359/story.html
So, yeah. Thanks to the triumvirate of BP/Transocean/Halliburton (yeah, *that* Halliburton), we have an ecosystem being destroyed by a spill that spews out the equivalent of the Exxon Valdez disaster every four days.
How’s that “deregulate everything and let the free market take care of it” thing workin’ out there, you folks who screamed “drill, baby, drill”?
Gah.
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By: fiona64 on May 26, 2010
at 10:31 AM
Greytdog on May 26, 2010 at 9:59 AM
Fanned X2
I like all the rethugs who are now shouting that President Obama isn’t doing enough. It is BP not Obama that is pulling the King Canute act.
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By: jsri on May 26, 2010
at 10:28 AM
Poolman on May 25, 2010 at 3:06 PM
Your assessment, as usual, is carefully done and should be required reading for any newbies who come on site. It would be a nice start for some people, especially those whose only interest is spewing banal political slogans, but how to go about it is a problem. It’s not like teaching a new course to a new group of students where the teacher can demand a certain level of knowledge beforehand. But it certainly would be a place to start. I would suggest bookmarking your comments and linking to them each time comments begin to turn ugly.
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By: jsri on May 26, 2010
at 10:18 AM
fann that Greytdog!!!!
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By: lori on May 26, 2010
at 10:18 AM
It’s not just the fishermen, shrimpers, and crabbers that are out of business thanks to BP and the deregulated oil industry (thanks Cheney) – but all the other small businesses dependent on those industries – the small bait shops, the gas shops, the smaller marinas, canneries, etc. . .extinction caused by our national addiction to fossil fuel. And lest we forget, 11 human beings died on that rig – 11 humans who didn’t have to die except the company they worked for put profit over safety – safety of its workers, the environment, this planet – and we are as much at fault as BP. Taxpayer money has subsidized Big Oil for too long and allowed Big Oil to write its own rules and to hell with the rest of us.
I do find it interesting that Gov Jindal who has been very outspoken against the “big Obama Govt” is now screaming for Big Govt to take over the ops to cap the oil spill. Gee Bobby how’s that smaller less govt interference working for you now? Hang onto your hat Bobby Hurricane season approaches and your barrier islands and marshes are now so oil saturated that the LA coastline is defenseless against even a Cat 3 hurricane.
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By: Greytdog on May 26, 2010
at 9:59 AM
I think it is going to be quite interesting to see what is the long-term effect. I was watching the initial videos, when they were projecting total spill volumes, and it was immediately clear that they were way understated. They were projecting at that time about 30,000 gals spill, and I thought to myself, “That’s about the volume of my pool.” Hmm….
A quick estimate of velocity from the video x pipe cross sectional area indicated they were off at least an order of magnitude. I can’t believe they were that incompetent; surely they knew the flow and lost volume was many times what they were saying.
Nature will deal with this eventually, but it sure looks bad for the Gulf coast for several years. Those fishermen and shrimpers are basically out of business.
PFesser53
pfesser53 at gmail dot com
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By: pfesser53 on May 26, 2010
at 9:27 AM
We have a winner!
Carol Brady rocks!
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By: HTM on May 26, 2010
at 9:19 AM
Brava Helen!
Carol Brady,
You should be given an award. Someone call BP!
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By: Slyvia T. on May 26, 2010
at 9:01 AM
Isn’t that spewage?!?
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By: farsight on May 26, 2010
at 8:29 AM
Carol Brady, may I commend you for a brilliant, multi-faceted response to the twin issues of spillage (oil and troll)
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By: Gramiam on May 26, 2010
at 8:25 AM
Since Captain Gregorio/Craig is such the expert on all things…he could certainly stop the oil leak in the Gulf. I say we send him. Head first.
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By: Carol Brady on May 26, 2010
at 8:07 AM
Helen, thanks for the post. Enjoyed it.
I have wasted more time than I should have reading something like 496 comments. I really need to stop at around 200.
Δ Maven
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By: Maven Δ on May 25, 2010
at 11:21 PM
I was going to respond to Craig/Gregorio/Captain but then I… zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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By: Coffee on May 25, 2010
at 10:33 PM
Goodhearted vs. meanspirited
Had a student today who told others to hold their nose while they walk past another student b/c she stinks. Do you think that kind of behavior comes from a good heart or a mean spirit?
So….stop for another lesson in helping vs. hurting. Oh, I know I sow the seeds that I hope will result in civic-minded, helpful citizens.
But this one student really, really, really tries my patience. Three more weeks!
Night everyone.
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By: vgman on May 25, 2010
at 9:52 PM
I like that about you. 🙂
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By: Poolman on May 25, 2010
at 5:41 PM
‘Give it up’ that is. Need to quit multitasking
OK, back to work. Have a nice week everyone! Hope I can return to read some more.
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By: palinshutup on May 25, 2010
at 5:38 PM
I love my palinshutup ID, I wouldnt give it for anything in the world 🙂
poolman, I have a rule, I dont post anything I wouldnt say it to anyone face to face.
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By: palinshutup on May 25, 2010
at 5:35 PM
Exactly Poolman! Well stated! Oh and I wont forget to thank my personal poolman boy … maybe even twice on Sunday! LOL LOL 😉
Craig there is nothing more to “engage” me in.. LOL My “poolman” served as an unpaid consultant to Dallas county several years ago when Parkland almost closed due to financial difficulties, we were both very active in the bond issue when we lived in Dallas County sooooooo I am very familiar with Parkland’s money difficulties and what the causes are.
I told you the errors in your editorial, you didn’t believe me , and that was the end of it… I have no desire to argue with anyone.. especially about such boring minutia, even when you annoy the hell out of me…And here’s another news flash I don’t like you enough to have a conversation with you! I sure as hell wouldn’t talk to you face to face so why would I here? I’ll correct your falsehoods and set the record straight but that’s about it! Imagine that! LOL
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By: lori on May 25, 2010
at 5:35 PM
Gramiam I shall try to figure out where my buttons are so I can disconnect them.
And Professor Jim, nice shark advice.
Back on May 16 at 8:16 am, Sherr! with a triangle posted a link to Lewis Black’s commentary on Glenn Beck. Love it!
My daughter the button pusher can’t understand why I am cracking up as I watch stuff like that. It is madness and craziness strung together so magically, just thinking about it makes me chuckle!
Thanks Sherr! It helps a lot to laugh.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 25, 2010
at 4:51 PM
Scout’s: “Seriously, my friends, stop feeding him. It’s going directly to his ass.”
That was a crackup! Thanks for the laugh. Sounds like something Helen would write.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 25, 2010
at 4:35 PM
I don’t pretend to be someone else. My gravatar page changed my name because it’s the one I usually use. All you need to do is click my name and it goes to my Imaginista blog page. No conspiracy here. Try again, asshat.
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By: Scout on May 25, 2010
at 4:21 PM
Henry T, I’m with you. A book from Helen and Margaret would be amazing. I can see them on Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert now!!! I’d buy it for sure.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 25, 2010
at 4:01 PM
That’s okay. I’m sure it isn’t their own fault. It’s probably just something in the water.
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By: Poolman on May 25, 2010
at 3:51 PM
Spot on, as usual. Thanks for the pie and coffee.
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By: Penny on May 25, 2010
at 3:16 PM
Hello everyone. Seems we spend a lot of time deciding who and what is acceptable here on the porch. I’m good with diversity as long as it is well presented – meaning not crude and condescending. I may not agree with the content, but I believe you should be able to present it in a respectable fashion. Due to the impersonal nature of the blogoshere, a lot of posters feel somewhat emboldened to display their cruder sides and freely express things that they otherwise would control in a public forum where a shield of anonymity doesn’t exist.
That said, I’m sure Captain and Craig are not one in the same. We have continually had immature minds or kids add their perversions to this site and now with a link to porn. I’m not surprised. I’m sure Captain feels pretty proud of itself for pulling the wool over the eyes of some. Sad, as it was probably the highlight of its day.
Moving on. It is good to see so many old timers here on the porch as well as all the newcomers. For the newcomers, a little insight. We have been all over just about every topic relating to politics and the modern world, so sometimes we lose patience with someone asking questions or posting old information that we have been over time and again. If you have no interest in catching up on all the past posts to see that, then be prepared to get some flack for posting a repeat. Life is too short and some of us are not willing to go back and re-establish those paths for the hopeful enlightened few – not saying we won’t, just maybe begrudgingly.
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By: Poolman on May 25, 2010
at 3:06 PM
And there is something patently dishonest about using several ID’s in order to make it appear that there are several people flogging the same silly talking point.
By: jsri on May 25, 2010
at 2:18 PM
You mean like “Imaginista” and “Scout?”
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By: Oh My Heck on May 25, 2010
at 3:03 PM
jsri ,
I thank you so much for all your caring words and encouragement to stay on the porch.
Your porch dwellers who have posted today and crawled out into the sunshine must find it refreshing to come out of the dark.
My postings Never came anywhere close to what you or any whose name I do not recognize, posted today.
You know this Jsri as well as countless others.
If you claim that I posted the link, what reason would it be for?
Basically you want me gone because you do not wish to answer questions I have posed about various topics written here. Or to state any ideologies that challenge your beliefs.
I tried to engage Lori over the weekend and stated my facts. The same with HoneyJo.
Then this “JIM” gentleman shows up and you all are quick to peruse him and asking him questions as to why he is here.
He picked up very quickly that this site is not where you should try and challenge the liberal authority.
My best wishes to Jim and those like him who come here to learn. Knowledge is a good thing right?
I will continue to monitor this site as it displays all that is inherently wrong with America at this current time. It is a microcosm of liberal bias and hate that feeds on lies in order to perpetrate the agenda of those who would prefer to see America on her knees.
Lies and Hate? JeanΔ ¥
I never lied on this post.
And I never “preached hate”.
But I know I have smelled both here on this site.
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By: Craig on May 25, 2010
at 2:57 PM
Oh poor, poor, pitiful Trollie Boy. Now him widdle feewings are hurt. How about we all do him a HUGE favor and stop giving him attention. It’s really for his own good…
Be FREE Trollie, be FREE! Go find your own kind on the www.
Seriously, my friends, stop feeding him. It’s going directly to his ass.
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By: Scout on May 25, 2010
at 2:52 PM
Exactly.
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By: palinshutup on May 25, 2010
at 2:25 PM
And there is something patently dishonest about using several ID’s in order to make it appear that there are several people flogging the same silly talking point.
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By: jsri on May 25, 2010
at 2:18 PM
Pardon me, pfesser53, ideas are a completely different thing from trolling, posting spam, sexually explicit sites….
Just so we get that clear.
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By: palinshutup on May 25, 2010
at 1:39 PM
to Hemnebob –
Actually, I really hate to see anyone silenced or driven out – especially those who don’t think as I do. I always figured exposing every idea to open scrutiny was the best way to learn, and that a desire to silence others is really just a cover for personal insecurity.
And, after all, you can’t lose: if your idea stands up well, it reinforces your thought process; if it takes a beating, then you get to replace your unclear thinking with better ideas. Everybody wins! A thick skin is necessary though, and a real commitment to finding the truth, not just having others blow sunshine up your rump.
About twenty years ago a nurse friend of mine gave me a paper copy of this:
http://www.apor.org/html/how_to_swim_with_sharks.htm
I have treasured it since, and keep a copy posted in my office. I would be most pleased if any here find it helpful.
Jim
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By: pfesser53 on May 25, 2010
at 1:20 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Jim and DelurkerGirl,
Thanks Jim and DelurkerGirl for your tips. I need all the help I can get! I’m about to break out my old Royal typewriter. Oops! Don’t have than anymore.
I’m the first to admit that this Old Broad has a REALLY hard time with technology. We are now the proud possessors of our very first cell phone! That only took about three weeks to get the hang of. I spent three months, thick manual in hand, figuring out how to operate all the functions of my electronic piano a few years ago. (Let’s see, first off, how to I turn the damn thing on?)
I have a dear friend who wants me to get an iPod??? What’s that???
I’ll get Petulant Penelope Computer figured out – sooner or later – or maybe deepsix her. That’ll teach her to misbehave.
Thanks again.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 25, 2010
at 1:15 PM
to: craig/gregorio craig and anyone else who this might apply towards…
where oh where is the post, “if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen..”
or more conveniently, get out of the blog…
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By: hemnebob on May 25, 2010
at 12:36 PM
My husband has always had a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy when it came to my cooking.
🙂
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By: Janice on May 25, 2010
at 11:58 AM
Lori–you are darn right. It’s a start–long over due but arriving.
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By: Donna on May 25, 2010
at 11:54 AM
small forward steps..but forward steps still…. DADT inching forward.. ! yay! Yes we can!!!! don’t let the noise around us drown out the music!
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By: lori on May 25, 2010
at 11:31 AM
WOW!
You are the greatest!
Helen for President!
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By: Mighty in Maine on May 25, 2010
at 11:18 AM
Just found you thanks to friends on Facebook.
Margaret and Helen you two are my heros!
Keep telling it like it is, ladies!
Made my day!!
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By: Nan on May 25, 2010
at 10:40 AM
Way to go, Gregloryhole!!!
Bet your mamma’s proud.
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By: Stan on May 25, 2010
at 10:35 AM
Gregorio/Craig you should be ashamed of yourself! You are trash!
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By: Cheryl on May 25, 2010
at 10:33 AM
and yes…he posted it.
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By: Marjorie G. on May 25, 2010
at 10:29 AM
I agree with jsri!!!
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By: Marjorie G. on May 25, 2010
at 10:29 AM
Gregorio/Craig/Captain
In the recent past you have shown considerable disdain for the contributions of many posters to this site and whether or not you posted the link in question, the responses of the regulars have given them an opportunity to express feelings toward you and your ideas which, up to this point, you have pretty much chosen to ignore. This time perhaps you’ll take the hint and find another website to conduct your ongoing harassment.
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By: jsri on May 25, 2010
at 10:19 AM
helen…
you are one incredible woman and i love reading this blog.
thanks for giving us hope towards the older citizens here in the usa!
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By: hemnebob on May 25, 2010
at 10:06 AM
Margaret & Helen you are brilliant!!!
This “Craig” person is an idiot.
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By: Marjorie G. on May 25, 2010
at 9:42 AM
Craig=Asshat
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By: Henry T. on May 25, 2010
at 9:40 AM
Excellent post, Mageen! It was pointed out here in Phoenix that it was very likely that the backlog is so huge already that the unintended consequence of the new law would be to release thousands of new illegals who appeal deportation to obtain a driver’s license and work permit while waiting for a hearing of their case in court. Defense attorneys are currently obtaining court dates in 2014! Nothing earlier is available.
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By: Gramiam on May 25, 2010
at 9:28 AM
And so it is OK to put something on the porch and
then make up a false name for a cover,”new icon”,and then maliciously blame the troll?
AS I said earlier, what kind of people revel in the amusement of a lynching? I know most if not all realize that post did not originate from me.
Never have posted anything like that, never would.
But you delight in its application, which really should give those who really want to have this blog be special and communicative time to pause and think about the “others” who would do this. Just because I pull a little joke… You yourselves are one post away from being slandered and maligned.
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By: Craig on May 25, 2010
at 8:39 AM
http://www.trac.syr.edu
This is an excellent activity done by Syracuse University using Freedom of Information Act. Their latest posting shows the back-up and back-log of people who are appealing their immigration status in this country. A very big percentage of these people will be dead before their appeal will be read. The back-up and back-log gets worse every year. And all this is at the federal level. For those who think that anyone treated unjustly by SB 1070 can simply resolve their situation through an appeals process at any level, think again. Once more I say that the only good crack down law is one that also protects the innocent with as much vigor as it prosecutes those found guilty.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 25, 2010
at 8:24 AM
Honolulu Sally, You read me right. I have a daughter and have a pretty good idea we share similar experiences about button pushing. I was once told that the solution was simple…..Disconnect the buttons! That seemed too simplistic to my mind and I wallowed around in the mire with brat child for a few more rounds until I figured, “Maybe I ought to give this a try.” First few times it was really really tough, but then I realized that by disconnecting the buttons, I regained control…of myself and the argument.
I think the latest antics from trolldom prove my
point. Ignore and allow Matthew to champion his grandmother. He will do what is right and the porch will be fit for company again.
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By: Gramiam on May 25, 2010
at 8:11 AM
“The GOP even has homophobes practicing homosexuality.”
Helen you are a hoot!!!!
Time for you to write a book!!!!
🙂
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By: Henry T. on May 25, 2010
at 5:59 AM
Great post Helen.
Loved it. Captain’s post, not so much.
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By: Frank on May 25, 2010
at 5:11 AM
Jean, I don’t know what version of Windows you have, but try this. Click on Start, then Run, then just type in Control and hit enter. That pulled the control panel right up for me. I wonder if your control panel is actually gone, or if your shortcuts to it have been hidden from you.
You can also try to go in My Computer and navigate to C:\Windows\System32. See if there is a control.exe file there.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 25, 2010
at 5:10 AM
Oh, Captain…what would Tennille think???
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By: Kimmie on May 25, 2010
at 5:09 AM
Farsight, your vision is pretty clear. 🙂
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 25, 2010
at 5:02 AM
To Jean:
It sounds like you have a virus on your machine. I believe you said your control panel or part thereof had been deleted… ? I haven’t used PCs for about ten years now except in an emergency but my son_the_PC_guru told me there is a virus out there that does that very thing.
You might consider a Mac. Used Macs are hard to find, since people hang onto their old ones (they seem to live forever). I got so tired of working on my computer all the time – the final straw was when I got a virus on my business computer – and I went all Mac. I have never run antiviral software and never had a virus; they just don’t get viruses.
Macs are quite a bit more expensive, but they last so long you are even ahead in money, too. Throw in the hours of fiddling with Win machines and I think you are way ahead.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 25, 2010
at 4:08 AM
btw, Who opened the door to the racist pigs?
JuneauJo wrote; ‘Trolls: Sarah Palin said you did not send in your monthy stipend to her PAC! Get with it.’
Giddiup now, mama needs another bumpit!
Step right up! its the jim/kyle/gregorio/james, I know Im missing someone, show.
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By: palinshutup on May 25, 2010
at 3:56 AM
Late to the party. Work and no time for play makes me a boring girl.
Thank you for another gem Helen. Im in the bunch who continue to make noise to urge the President to work towards halting off-shore drilling.
If cities in EU can thrive
powered by wind and solar so can we. Im proud that my state, WA, is taking giant leaps in that direction.
The only hole Id like to drill is one giving Sarah a new ass hole and shove every oily dead Pelican, turtle, dolphin…right up there. I mean it, really. How’s that for ‘toxic’ james?
M&H, Someone suggested you go on SNL, Ive been saying you should be on Letterman since I was turned on to you during the Presidential campaign but I would rather have you on internet radio, I bet you’d give that waste-of-space-rush a run for his money.
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By: palinshutup on May 25, 2010
at 3:53 AM
Gramiam had a good point about ignoring the you know whos. But it is hard because there are some people that really like to push other people’s buttons, and take great pleasure when they get a response.
I am living proof of that – with a daughter that can push me to the point of snapping. I haven’t learned to deal with our relationship yet. I have a feeling it has to start with me being able to let it be.
In the case of offending trolls, they like to do the zings and see the reactions and then react to it and attack even more to stir it up.
It is almost like a football, and someone throws a pass. If no one catches it, it drops to the ground and the play is dead. If someone does catch it, then the attack is on and the play continues, much to the delight of the one who threw in the first place.
Why are some people like that? I really don’t know. I just know that I don’t want to be that way. Maybe the next time my daughter pushes my buttons, I’ll be ready with a better response.
Or I’ll hang out on Helen and Margaret’s porch with Jean and the rest of the gang.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 25, 2010
at 3:08 AM
HRH,
Thanks and glad your granddaughter is enjoying Kyle; I know we do.
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By: farsight on May 24, 2010
at 10:11 PM
It is amazing the links a depraved sorry asshole will go to to remain the center of attention. Remember the lying he has already committed in the past and his use of fake outrage. It’s still all about him!
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By: farsight on May 24, 2010
at 10:09 PM
Buttons44,
You definitely need more drugs.
I tried to read your post about my musings,but wow,you really are in left field.
Try and slow down cause the drugs are really
effecting your ability to communicate.
And Jean,
This is “Your” congenial gang?
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By: Craig on May 24, 2010
at 9:58 PM
See someone is talking to himself again.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 24, 2010
at 9:51 PM
Jean,
Enjoy your congenial gang..especially when they can resort to putting filth on their own web page to discredit a poster.
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By: Craig on May 24, 2010
at 9:48 PM
So I see how this plays.
Discredit the newsmaker
and smear the delivery man.
Well Captain..who ever you are,.. smear on.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Your colors shine thru.
Nuthin like a group lynching.
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By: Craig on May 24, 2010
at 9:46 PM
Buttons44,
You definitely need more drugs.
I tried to read your post about my musings,but wow,you really are in left field.
Try and slow down cause the drugs are really
effecting your ability to communicate.
And Jean,
This is “Your” congenial gang?
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 24, 2010
at 9:41 PM
Captain on May 24, 2010 at 9:11 PM
aka Gregorio/Craig/Captain
You really are a duplicitous and worthless pig. And don’t give us the “Oops. My mistake.” crap. When you copied and pasted the web address to that porn site you knew exactly what you were doing. I suspect you spend as much time there as you do on H&M’s site.
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By: jsri on May 24, 2010
at 9:41 PM
So I see how this plays.
Discredit the newsmaker
and smear the delivery man.
Well Captain..who ever you are,.. smear on.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Your colors shine thru.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 24, 2010
at 9:28 PM
Dear everyone,
Oops. My mistake. I accidently typed in an extra “s”. It was meant as a joke but not THAT kind of joke. Here is the sight I meant to type:
http://www.matureladies.com/
I beg everyone’s pardon.
Sincerely,
Gregorio/Craig/Captain
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By: Captain on May 24, 2010
at 9:11 PM
What ship are you to ladies on in the top photo?
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By: R.D. on May 24, 2010
at 8:57 PM
Woo Hoo!!!!
Let’s hear it for Mature Ladies!!!!
🙂
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By: Jack on May 24, 2010
at 8:56 PM
I didn’t see your comment before I posted mine, Melissa.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 24, 2010
at 8:56 PM
Captain’s link is to a porn site.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 24, 2010
at 8:55 PM
OH GOOD LORD!!!!!
MATTHEW!!!!!!
The “Captain” comment is absolute FILTH!!!!
Oh my goodness gracious…..
Folkes DON”T go to the Capain’s Link…..I can’t breathe.
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By: Melissa on May 24, 2010
at 8:54 PM
To Donna:
“So, Jim–someone referred to you as a professor (presumably because of the phonetics but I wasn’t sure). Are you?”
Not any more. I am in private industry now, but I did teach at university graduate level for a time. The handle, “PFesser53” is a bit of a private joke between me and my wife, and has nothing to do with my teaching, though…
Fiona:
“Thanks for proving my point — this is not about illegal immigration AT ALL, or you would be just as concerned about Canadians, Russians, Irish illegals. Yet, it’s “no big deal” to you. It’s a “who cares” matter.”
Actually, it’s really about illegal immigration.
I’m not following your logic. sorry.
“This is all about hatred toward brown people, not immigration. The numbers game is not the point here at all, and you know it. It is disingenuous in the extreme to shout that it’s all about “illegal immigration” and then call illegal immigration from anywhere other than south of the border a “who cares” matter.”
I don’t shout.
And of course, the numbers game is exactly the point, isn’t it? A ratio of 40:1 illegal aliens crossing the Mexican border vs. the Canadian border – using numbers from the very article you cited – clearly shows which border is the priority.
“Thanks again; I always love it when the John Birch Society types are hoist on their own petard.”
You know nothing of my club memberships. And since I used the numbers from your own article to discredit your argument, perhaps it is not I who is hoisted…
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 24, 2010
at 8:48 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
Let’s see if my computer, Petulant Penelope, will let me put up this comment. She’s getting crankier and crankier. There are quite a few of us Old Timers who have been coming to M&H’s porch right from the git-go, what, over two years now? For any relative newcomers, welcome! Help yourself to Helen’s hospitality, pie and tea. (BYOB.)
I would however, advise you to go back and read the postings and comments right from the beginning before you jump in with both feet and start pontificating. That’s sort of like someone claiming to be a book reviewer after having picked up Tolstoy’s “War and Peace” and reading three pages from the middle of it – in the original Russian. Further, we Old Timers don’t take long to pick up on someone who comes here under false pretenses, and/or changes the blog name only to come back later under a different one. Writing styles are so easily identified. We do not appreciate those who come here with a captious agenda, when the calculated purpose is only to entrap or provoke an argument and insult our collective intelligence. If anyone comes here and embarrasses himself/herself by being offensive, then he/she cannot cry foul when the favor is returned.
It has been my experience that donna, HoneyJoRumples and many others here are thoughtful, well informed people who have the courage to speak out and challenge blatant, (or sometimes not-so-subtle) racism, sexism and Anti-Semitism. Anyone’s choice of words to express himself/herself is perfectly acceptable. The pages of history are replete with the price paid for silence in the face of a despot. The best alternative to tyranny should not have to be livess of quiet desperation. If not necessarily for ourselves, we have a responsibility to speak for those who cannot.
Furthermore, anyone who is incapable of getting beyond ‘the Taxpayer’s Money’ and his own wallet must have an empty, bereft life.
Once again, the quest for ‘facts’ and ‘truth’ rears its head. Most of us think and feel what we want to, or think and feel what we think and feel we OUGHT to. If we get lucky, the two just might coincide. But my ‘facts’ and ‘truth’ may be entirely different from yours.
Not too many years ago Phrenology, the ‘pseudoscience’ of examining the bumps on people’s heads to determine character or personality traits and mental abilities was considered ‘fact’ and ‘proof’ of the ‘truth’. And then there was Eugenic. How about measuring the size of the brains of Africans to ‘prove’ the inferiority of the race and keep it enslaved. Or weighing women’s brains to ‘prove’ that their lightweight made them incapable of being equal to men. (Post mortem, I hope!!!) Then the absolute nonsense of measuring the nostril thickness of Jews with ‘proof’, ‘facts’ and ‘truth’ for whatever case was trying to be made. If those ‘facts’ and ‘truths’ had been maintained, where would civilization be now? A hundred years from now, what will the ‘facts’, ‘proof’ and ‘truth’ be?
Agreements and accommodations are what make civilizations grow. But occasionally, when those are not possible, repudiation is the best remedy. Our civilization can grow, change or decline. The decisions are in our collective hands.
As for the new AZ Immigration Law, the latest conservative mantra is “Have you read the law?” (Read: Health Care Bill, Energy Bill, Stimulus Bill, etc., etc.,etc.) To that I could ask, “Have your read the Bible or the constitution? (The U.S. Constitution, not the English, French, German or any other country’s constitution. The English translation of the Jewish Bible, the Douay Version or the St. James Version of the Bible?) Scholars and Jurists more learned than I have spent their lifetimes studying them, and still they are open to interpretation every day. Or is the AZ Law spelled out in such clarity that there can be no ambiguity?
If the oil companies, the conservative and tea party crowd have their way with “Drill, baby ,drill!”; and the armchair generals have their way with nuclear proliferation, then there is a strong possibility that someday in the not so distant future there won’t be many more, if any of the human species left to quibble about such matters. And classifications such as race, ethnic origin, gender, age, religious or political affiliations will be moot points.
Regarding the Gulf oil spill and the bungling attempts to clean up such a massive mess, I saw Rand Paul say on TV, “Accidents happen.” Yeah, shit happens! Now, there’s a politician for conservatives (one of their own) to get behind and support!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 24, 2010
at 8:43 PM
Hey everyone. I think Helen might have started blogging on this site… mayber they are paying her? I don’t know but it might explain why we haven’t heard more from her here.
*** link removed ***
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By: Captain on May 24, 2010
at 8:37 PM
Any of you out there ever chat? Remember what we used to do to snerts? (snot-nosed egotistical rude turkeys) We had a button that we could click on called ignore. Just click on your mental ignore buttons and the troll(s) will eventually lose interest.
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By: Gramiam on May 24, 2010
at 8:34 PM
I vote for blackballing Gregorio/Craig/ butthead. You bore me.
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By: Keystone on May 24, 2010
at 8:29 PM
To your response :By: Gregorio/Craig on May 24, 2010
at 3:38 PM
and claim NOT profane nor attempt to tell someone to shove it>>>> BIG TIME MYPOPTIC SPIN on your part, but can gather no trait of shame in body or soul–come to figure rather souless anyway , so scratch that attempt to allow such attribute assignment to you !!
AH, the beauty of words and the way one chooses to express…not even sure if your attempt allow even pity at this pit for has been done deliberately too often to be mistaken in your intent to slig poisonous arrows at others which btw, fail to hit target but do cause some amusement as well as sadness for what is able to be be perceive of your mindset and from wence you entrenched and will likely cling to evermore !!!
Pardo if far more just find it a W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R-ing ponce again and especially NOT a BFD for you indeed are entitled to cling to whatever for as long as you prefer no matter how ridiculous or repulsive or , well, whatever. SMART folks learn “mo’ better” after time, but does NOT appear you possess such capabilities and again a w-h-a-t-ev-e-r as most realize no way to “save” all so able simple respnd W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R (lol, throw in a good VG accent while at it for levity/mirthfuls !!!!)
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By: Buttons44 on May 24, 2010
at 7:45 PM
And the beat goes on…..
and the beat goes on………
Jim..run…
PFesser53…..
Your tarred and feathered…
Welcome to their world……..
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 24, 2010
at 7:31 PM
PFesser53, as already suggested by other posters, to really understand the way people feel here about certain posters, you may have to go back a few posts, quite a few. Then, you might understand.
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By: Easier on May 24, 2010
at 6:09 PM
I agree farsight. Here is something to elevate the conversation and bore the trolls. In 2007, a county in Virginia, alarmed at a massive influx of immigrants, succeeded in passing an ordinance very similar to the law recently passed here in AZ. A pair of film makers decided to document the event and it’s consequences and to post the resulting short “takes” to YouTube rather than wait to put a documentary together as it was happening. The reaction and interaction on YouTube was massive and resulted in use of that footage and more in depth interviews in the creation of 9500 Liberty.The website below has the extended trailer for the film and sites where the film is currently being shown. I noticed that Austin,TX is on the list, as are a number of sites in Arizona.
The message I get from what I have seen at YouTube and at this site is….Beware of unintended consequences.
http://www.9500liberty.com/
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By: Gramiam on May 24, 2010
at 5:20 PM
Helen we all need you. Keep it up. I look forward to your comments.
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By: David McCowen on May 24, 2010
at 5:06 PM
I don’t believe it. You all have allowed Craig/HoweverManyOtherNames to monopolize a thread once again. He gets exactly what he wants!!!
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By: farsight on May 24, 2010
at 5:02 PM
I think it is time to have Gregorio/Craig black balled again.
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By: Melissa on May 24, 2010
at 4:21 PM
But perhaps, since C/J is willing to rummage through his old posts, he might find his one about Native Americans trading for liquor and beads. Or equating Hispanics to gardeners. And possibly the occasional anti-Semitic comment. Kind of a “Greatest Hits of Buffoonery.”
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By: Donna on May 24, 2010
at 4:17 PM
Oh Greytdog–anyone who thinks it’s ok to:
1. Say a senior citizen is living on borrowed time;
2. Suggest she “stick to needlepoint,” inferring she doesn’t have the intellect to opine on matters;
3. Say she probably was taken to the voting booth by ACORN and told how to vote, smearing her independence and ability to think for herself; and
4. Conclude with another reminder of her mortality…
is even more lacking in insight than I had realized. Which is saying a whole lot. Indeed, I’m willing to hazard a guess that Jim probably has a fair idea at this point why C/J’s posts are not greeted with glad little cries of welcome.
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By: Donna on May 24, 2010
at 4:15 PM
Actually G/C, your post on Sept 8 2009 was merely foreplay before tell folks to shove it. I don’t know about how you were raised – doubtful that wolves would have allowed you in the pack – but in my neck of the woods, telling a senior citizen they’re living on borrowed time is both rude and profane. Oh, BTW, being profane has nothing whatsoever to do with cussing. Your original post was nothing more than hate mail to the writer of this blog.
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By: Greytdog on May 24, 2010
at 4:03 PM
JIM,
SINCE DONNA COULD NOT GIVE YOU THE EXACT
QUOTE,HERE IT IS
Here is my first original post
at 1:32pm Sept. 8,2009
Margaret, my dear.
Your living on borrowed time.
Get the insurance to pay off your hove-around
and stick to needlepoint.
You probably were taken to the voting booth by
an ACORN activist and told how to vote.
Get over it..FDR is no longer in office and what you want is not on the to-do list of Pelosi ,Reed, Frank or Obama. Just thank your lucky stars you won’t be around to pay off the NATIONS debt.
HORRENDOUS HUH? NO PROFANITY.
NO TELLING SOMEONE TO SHOVE IT.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 24, 2010
at 3:38 PM
Dear “Professor” Jim:
Thanks for proving my point — this is not about illegal immigration AT ALL, or you would be just as concerned about Canadians, Russians, Irish illegals. Yet, it’s “no big deal” to you. It’s a “who cares” matter.
This is all about hatred toward brown people, not immigration. The numbers game is not the point here at all, and you know it. It is disingenuous in the extreme to shout that it’s all about “illegal immigration” and then call illegal immigration from anywhere other than south of the border a “who cares” matter.
Thanks again; I always love it when the John Birch Society types are hoist on their own petard.
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By: fiona64 on May 24, 2010
at 3:28 PM
So, Jim–someone referred to you as a professor (presumably because of the phonetics but I wasn’t sure). Are you?
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By: Donna on May 24, 2010
at 2:57 PM
to Fiona –
According to the article you cite, the relevant number of illegal Canadian crossings is 70,000/year.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is that best estimates are 3 million/year coming across the Mexican border, with 11 million illegals already here. Quick and dirty math suggests a 40:1 ratio. Hmmm…..
Yes, the Canadian border is longer. That doesn’t cause it to be an increased threat any more than does the fact that it’s colder or has more pine trees. What makes a border an immigration threat is the desire of the people on the other side to come across illegally – which, according to your own article, seems to be about 1/40th that of the Mexico-based folks.
Small point, but I don’t think anyone is talking about a “security perspective,” as in physical threat. Of course any open border can be used that way; I think the topic is the flow of illegal aliens, not bombs. That’s a different subject altogether.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 24, 2010
at 2:53 PM
And besides…do I write like Annon??, as well as I think Annon has been here long before my arrival.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 24, 2010
at 2:29 PM
Nope not me.
Somehow or other I got black balled late last year..and so I came back as an alternative
“gregorio” which my Italian GrandFather in law would call me.
So those are the only two names I have utilized.
Keep trying..but its not me.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 24, 2010
at 2:08 PM
“Anonymous” wrote: Nobody’s playing chess. I think Gregorio’s points are well made and logical, and in your post I find only hyperbole, mis-characterization,
Anyone want to bet met that Anonymous = Craigorio?
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By: fiona64 on May 24, 2010
at 1:54 PM
Jim wrote: As for the “porous” northern border – who cares? That’s not where the problem is. The problem is the southern one.
Nope. From a national security perspective, the Northern border is a BIGGER problem because it is so easy to penetrate. And if you think there are no Canadian illegals, think again.
http://www.canadaupdates.com/news/illegal_immigrants_from_canada_steal_us_jobs-28502.html
You’re welcome.
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By: fiona64 on May 24, 2010
at 1:49 PM
get a room already.
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By: FDR on May 24, 2010
at 10:34 AM
LOL Ok, alaskapi, you got me there!
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By: HoneyJoRumples on May 24, 2010
at 8:17 AM
“Anonymous, one more time – discussions on opposing views is fine. Being obnoxious and sancimonious about those views is not. ”
——————–
HoneyJo-
I rarely disagree with you but I do here…
IF someone’s style is obnoxious and sanctimonious, they should, by all means, go for it.
As santimonious obnoxiousness finds it’s voice in patronizing put downs , phony ‘good manners’, and upside down logic pyramids it’s generally obvious as BS
All that being said, SOB’s should be ready to take the guff their silliness engenders …
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By: alaskapi on May 24, 2010
at 7:15 AM
p.s. if you look over my posts, I think you’ll find that if someone deals with the issues, I will, too. Once they start getting personal, that’s when I do, too.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 24, 2010
at 6:16 AM
Honalulu Sally – Amen!!
Anonymous, one more time – discussions on opposing views is fine. Being obnoxious and sancimonious about those views is not.
Again I stand by everything I’ve said. I think the fact that Jim now has suddenly gotten everyone to call him “Professor” Jim, as though he somehow just knows more than the rest of us, that he’s here to instruct us, to enlighten and educate us and correct our thinking, kind of rests my case.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 24, 2010
at 6:09 AM
Anony@5:05-
Actually , in the beginning, the porch was a much rowdier spot than folks have settled into now…
Many a soiree ended up with KP duty for all who got into pie fights…
And one of my favorite posts from early days ( thank you Helen! ) addressed the phony articulate-argument thingy beautifully…
‘NEW, New Rules:
If you are not for me, you are against me. I’ll get over it. Now kindly return the favor.”
https://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/what-was-i-thinking-when-i-called-sarah-palin-a-bitch/
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By: alaskapi on May 24, 2010
at 6:05 AM
An articulate man stops by to visit and immediately becomes a “troll”. Sigh!
In the beginning M&H was a porch where all were welcome to the discussion as long as they minded their manners. Now one must not voice opposite views before they can partake of the pie.
Good try, professor Jim 😦
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By: Anonymous on May 24, 2010
at 5:05 AM
Donna @ 2:17 LOL Whatever gets you where you want to go! LOL It’s all good.
It was a good week for Progressives’ last week we deserved to celebrate! On we go… Yes we can..
namaste
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By: lori on May 24, 2010
at 4:20 AM
Professor (sic) seems quite intelligent, inquiring, slightly judgmental, but then none of us are perfect. Would love to hear a discussion between Jesus and Buddha.
More fun, though, would be a discussion between the Dalai Lama and Rush Limbaugh. In lieu of that, I’ll just read Margaret and Helen and the parlor folk with fellow feisty liberals. You must admit it is a safer place for conservatives here than a liberal in a conservative blog. For that reason alone, I wouldn’t want to waste my time posting or even visiting the Obama hating sites. Too scary for me.
Alas, you have a point Professor Jim, about the irony of liberal colleges not being liberal when it comes to conservatives. Part of the reason being that it is too flabbergasting for liberals to get the conservative point of view without being able to poke holes into it, or look for holes which may or may not be there. Sad irony, yes it is.
You must admit though, that our (I am liberal) side of newscasters and comedians (Jon Stewart sure can make me laugh!) present a smarter, sharper, funnier persona than the conservative side.
Okay, maybe not sharper – because conservatives have sharp-tongued Anne Coulter and sharp poison arrowed Rush Limbaugh, and my favorite, sharp dressed Sarah Palin. Oh yes! and sharply warped Glenn Beck. God bless the conservatives.
I know I am biased, but I really enjoy the wit over here, and it is crazy for anyone from an opposing camp to think their opposing views will be welcome here unless presented in a humorous way (UAW), or as you present in a non affiliated polite way. However, calling Helen and/or Margaret out will cause a stampede of indignation – they are our hosts, beloved, respected, and witty as heck, and insults to them = trolling.
We have our James – Hi James! who is doggedly keeping us informed about the Tea Party and has the body armor of an armadillo on an Eveready battery, able to take all the arrows, zings, and cymbal bashings and keep on trudging along. He kinda reminds me of Forrest Gump, and I really liked the movie.
btw James, Yes, Charles Djou the Republican won with 39% of the vote here in Hawaii, but the 2 Democrats in the race had 30% and 27%. It was a Democratic victory that equaled a loss. Charles Djou is a hard working man – I like him. The Republicans might find out he isn’t a party man though. He is a people man.
Professor Jim, I understand where you are coming from. Stick around. It is a nice place to hang out. We get some anger going on at times, and we also have recipe swaps sometimes. I’ve learned a lot here – history (thanks Jean), current events, different perspectives, different lives. I got to celebrate with like minded people when Barack Obama won, and in unison said a prayer of thanks that we were saved from the righteous Barbie, Sarah Palin. (Do I hear an Amen?)
Stick around. Namaste, Peace be with you, and Aloha.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 24, 2010
at 12:34 AM
Jim – you are of course entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to respectfully disagree with it, as I do. I call it as I see it, and the way I see it, you’re way off beam, and I stand by everything I said. You’re free to call me “bigot” and other names if it makes you feel better, but I hope you’re not too disappointed if I simply don’t accept it.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 23, 2010
at 9:39 PM
What have we here? Tag team trolling? Just sayin’.
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By: Gramiam on May 23, 2010
at 9:19 PM
To Donna –
OK then.
I don’t know how long I’ll stick around anyway, but I have to tell you that I have a lot of trouble with the concept of PC police. A lot of people who are incompetent arguers try to shut down legitimate points of view by yelling racist or bigot or troll when someone else gets the better of them, and that really turns me off, so I am naturally suspicious of anyone who does that.
I don’t consider myself liberal or conservative; I only want to know what the truth is; I really don’t care WHAT it is. There is an old Chinese proverb about For and Against, and I try to not get caught up in that. Brandeis said that sunlight is the best disinfectant, and I think that probably liberals are worse than conservatives about trying to shout down ideas they don’t agree with. Ironic, really. Sometimes I think many so-called liberals haven’t the slightest idea what liberal means – and it is a good, honorable term. The colleges, which should be centers of open discourse are probably the worst place to be a heretic (conservative), and the kids don’t even get the irony of what they and the staff are doing.
People who self-identify as libs and conservatives really need to get together and talk; nobody has a monopoly on the truth or good ideas. And implicit in that is the idea that everybody is considered well-motivated and moral by everybody else; then the games can begin. You can’t learn by listening to yourself shout.
OK – thanks again. I’ll watch for a while.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 23, 2010
at 9:06 PM
Jim,
Donna is correct in that my first post I derided the Moderator or host of this blog as some kind of ole lady on a hover round who should be better off saving her dollars for health care or something to that effect.
I apologized. But to some and in particular Donna, who has taken this blog to be her partial ownership…well she has forever given me the scarlet letter.
So if for some reason..you sense an attitude it is that yes..I’m still here much like several who come here to post and ask questions but rarely receive anything but ridicule for being here to questioning their beliefs.
However there are some who are civil.
It use to be said that the porch was a welcome respite where one could come as long as they kept their mouths clean and their thoughts open.
I think those days are gone.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 23, 2010
at 9:04 PM
Unfortunately, there’s no search function on the blog so I can’t direct you to date and time. But I believe others can confirm that the first post concerned health care and was stating that Margaret wouldn’t need to worry about it since she wouldn’t be around long.
There have been the anti-Semitic comments and the reference to Hispanics as “gardeners.” And a number of ghastly “jokes” about Native Americans (largely concerning liquor and beads).
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By: Donna on May 23, 2010
at 8:44 PM
To Donna:
Fair enough.
Citations, please. Then I can decide for myself if those accusations are justified.
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 23, 2010
at 8:37 PM
Well, actually–since you claim to be a new reader, you would not have the background of the situation. Craig arrived on this blog insulting the hosts and making cracks about them being old and near death. He then proceeded to insult most people here, with a range of ethnic slurs. And he has engaged in a pattern, which is (a) claim to start a discussion; (b) insult the people here; (c) whine that people don’t “want to hear opposing viewpoints.”
It is precisely the opposite and Honeyjo was exactly right: the issue is not with an opposing viewpoint. It is with someone who regularly demonstrates nastiness, bigotry, and ignorance.
If you were not a new reader, you’d know that many people are welcome here who offer different viewpoints. You’d also have seen that Craig/Gregorio is the definition of a troll: someone who goes onto a blog for the purpose of getting attention, rather than for any legitimate or courteous discourse.
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By: Donna on May 23, 2010
at 8:19 PM
HoneyJo, et al –
Although I’ve only been a reader of this fine blog for a short time, I have really come to enjoy reading the opinions of the gentle ladies who publish it.
But I have to say that I am a bit puzzled by many of those who post comments, and in particular the anger several express toward that fellow, Gregorio.
To wit: a recent post from you.
“Differing opinions are fine. Rude condescention and “I’m right and here’s why” attitudes are not fine, and that’s what we get from you. You cannot be rude, insulting and holier than thou”
To my eye, as a new reader, these are not things that describe Gregorio at all, but they certainly DO describe some who oppose his views. I find his thought processes crisp and his delivery understated – only to be met with “bigot,” “troll,” etc. I think the next passage illustrates that pretty well:
‘But you don’t want to hear that. You only want to hear us say “well good golly gosh, we didn’t htink of that!! Thanks so much, smart white man!! You showed us the way!!”’
Or again: ‘But again, you don’t want to hear that either. You just want us to say “well wow, Mr. white man, you’re right again!!”’
Or: But you don’t want to hear that either, and no matter how true it is, you refuse to see it, acknowledge it, or accept it. You just want us again to say “well my goodness Mr. white man, I didn’t even see how much I paid in taxes this year, or last. How would I have known if we didn’t have you here to tell us??”
This is hardly someone who should be lecturing another about civility and respect for others, IMHO.
Or this little bit of hyperbole:
“You are entitled to your opinion of course, but not your own facts. But you want to be entitled to your own facts, and want the whole world to think like you do. We here do not want the whole world to think like we do, which is why we DO NOT GO TO CONSERVATIVE BLOGS AND MAKE A NUISANCE OF OURSELVES FOISTING OUR VIEWS ON THOSE WE KNOW WILL NEVER ACCEPT THEM. You want everyone here to accept out of hand the made up factoids that you swallow down from Fixed News and such.
We treat visitors just fine here, gregorio. But you Sir, are not a visitor. You are a troll. There is a difference.”
I don’t think I need to make the case further, HoneyJo; you just it for me.
******************
If I may gently suggest a little self-examination, could the real problem be that Gregorio has the temerity to express a different opinion – and to heap insult upon injury – also has the ability to express it clearly, succinctly, and simultaneously point out the fallacies in others’ arguments? Could it be that in Gregorio you got someone who wouldn’t knuckle under to pressure, ridicule or insult, who has his own opinions and sticks to them, when what you really wanted was a “yes-man”? If that is not the case, then why would you imply that you don’t want to hear any conservative points of view and that he should go elsewhere? I thought you were open-minded…
Could the real problem be that, in your heart-of-hearts you know that you and some of the others – instead of being tolerant, gentle, open-minded individuals are instead closed-minded bigots, not only unwilling to consider any other point of view, but unwilling to even hear it? Could the real problem be that you and several others are exactly like the very people – those bigoted, closed minded conservatives – that you claim to oppose?
Cordially,
Jim
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By: PFesser53 on May 23, 2010
at 8:13 PM
I am so in love!!!!
Gov. Good Hair?
They’re taking MY country back all right. And I don’t like the direction. I was born in ’56 in the south… I don’t want to live 1956 in the same place!
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By: A Tatum on May 23, 2010
at 5:16 PM
Auntie Jean et al…an interesting look at pioneer feminist ‘herstory’.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/5/23/869193/-Sarah-Palin-vs.-Joans-Grandma
comments are good, also too…
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By: Elizabeth2 on May 23, 2010
at 4:40 PM
Amen, Poolman!
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 23, 2010
at 4:37 PM
Poolman,
You use the best metaphors. Love it!
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By: vgman on May 23, 2010
at 3:57 PM
“I don’t know why people are so upset to learn that I want to repeal the Civil Rights Act”…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-camp/leaked-rand-pauls-memo-to_b_584978.html
$arah Palin = Bush in a skirt.
Rand Paul = $arah Palin in pants.
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By: Elizabeth2 on May 23, 2010
at 3:51 PM
Happy Sunday, Everyone. Lori, don’t forget to thank a poolman for your afternoon pleasure. 😉
Seems to me that if our cry is “what part of illegal don’t you get?”, then you’d better sure go after ALL illegal activity in this country starting at the very top. Trickle that down to the illegal immigrant. The top greatest cost to all would likely be the tax cheats, then the perpetrators of illegal wars, illegal money laundering, and illegal stock trading. Corruption of public servants by corporations and lobbyists for special interests.
Go after those with the greatest influence over the whole of society and force them to obey the rules of the land before you oppress the alien among you. Why are you concerned with the ants living off the crumbs left scattered about and not working to replace the roof, windows, and doors that were taken out during this last financial storm? Then ask yourself why we keep paying the same people replace these windows and doors and believe them when they assure us how much better these new ones are than the ones we had before.
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By: Poolman on May 23, 2010
at 3:08 PM
Lori–you are a far more festive person than I am. I’m just enjoying the kids’ in the neighborhood and their lemonaid stand. A beer in a few hours, though.
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By: Donna on May 23, 2010
at 2:17 PM
LOL wheww sorry for the more than usual amount of typos… I think I better quit blogging and go back to floating in the pool with margarita in hand.. LOL Nothing better than a margarita on a hot day… except maybe 2?
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By: lori on May 23, 2010
at 2:05 PM
it’s a sunny day in Michigan and I am pretty sure nothing could ruin my mood, especially a political discussion.
MY opinion about the difference between progressives and conservatives are (I am speaking abot the big picture here) the progressive feels that a good strategy in life is to ask all to enter and to develop an inclusive atmosphere. To welcome and try to accommodate others. We can all share together and succeed.
he conservative feels that the environment can’t accommodate all and to try to do so would disadvantage the people closest to the myself, my family, my friends, etc.
We can “debate” all we want but IMHO there will always be that difference between a Progressive and a Conservative…
they are basic and fundamentally different ways of seeing the world.
namaste all.. 😉
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By: lori on May 23, 2010
at 2:01 PM
A thought on the immagration laws. They are an attempt to keep illegals out because of the drug cartels,terrorist, crinimals and having to support all the illegals. I agree that not all the illegals coming over the border are from the durg cartels or criminals. The thought I was referring to is the old saying that “locks (could also read laws) are for the honest people”. Dishonest people and criminals always find a way in — whether over the border or through any door (car, house, store any door) they may slow them down but they really don’t stop them.
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By: reader on May 23, 2010
at 2:01 PM
I never blog but my mom sent this to me — so wonderful! Please, keep it up. We need more people willing to call out everyone’s bull.
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By: Kayla on May 23, 2010
at 1:19 PM
HoneyJorumples, Princess Donna & Gramiam
Oh I start a discussion alright…
Its just that you like to hear your own selves sing and not listen to the lyrics of others.
HoneyJO at least made an effort to communicate.
Fishing parable was good. I guess where I disagree is that that fish may have come from my bucket.
How long since the 64 equal rights bill must it take for people to learn how to fish rather than being given the fish. First most did not graduate fishing class or dropped out and had children out of wedlock and more than likely do not even know where the father is. But the statistics would show you that more than likely the father is in jail.
AS for Arizona and racial profiling it was even stated today on ABC news talk that MOST Americans like the law as signed by the governor. If there were a referendum vote you would see that. I didn’t see that many anglos marching with their latino brothers. The Catholic church,democrats and the drug cartels stand to reap most of the benefits of illegal immigration
First year in five that my house taxes in Texas have not gone up. Last year Property tax on 2 acre of land I own in N. Carolina went from an appraised value of 6K to an even 100K. No house,no well no nothing. Fought it but lost.
Income Taxes paid this year were 30K, with our house being our only deduction. Thats up a little.
Its almost enough for one Hellfire missile to take out a taliban. But probably not enough to buy off a community orgainizer in Chicago.
And HoneyJO about this sentence…
“You are entitled to your opinion of course, but not your own facts. But you want to be entitled to your own facts,” What kind of thought or sentence structure is that? “BUT NOT YOUR OWN FACTS”??
REALLY??? I would see if that “fishin” school were still open.
And you started out with…
” Differing opinions are fine. Rude condescention and “I’m right and here’s why” attitudes are not fine, and that’s what we get from you. You cannot be rude, insulting and holier than thou and then expect the people to whom you have behaved in such a way to be nice to you. The real world just doens’t work that way. If you want people to be nice to you, you must be nice to them.”
But its OK for me to read your views without expressing mine? I thought this was an open forum?
Donna just wants me gone..
and Gramiam just wants a stage.
And Donna “jap” is one of the kindest things that
I can say about you without resorting to the open filth you and others have spewed about me and others.
Have a good rest of day all…….
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 23, 2010
at 1:18 PM
Gramian–thank you. That’s encouraging–I’ve been stunned at the whole Paul situation.
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By: Donna on May 23, 2010
at 1:03 PM
BTW, please do not feed the trolls. We are running dangerously low on troll chow. Thank you, the management
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By: Gramiam on May 23, 2010
at 11:47 AM
Very true, Honey! Bear in mind that each of the two Democrats who ran for the KY senate seat, polled more votes apiece than Rand did in the Republican primary. The race is ours (Democrats) to lose. Here in Arizona is a similar situation. Senator McCain has shot himself in the foot so many times he can’t even walk and Hayworth becomes more of a Rush Limbaugh wannabe every day. With all of the shenanigans, rational, sane Democrats look better and better. Can we afford to waste places in Congress on political clowns with what we have to deal with? I think not.
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By: Gramiam on May 23, 2010
at 11:40 AM
well said, Honeyjo–and, of course, we have resumed the Troll Cycle:
1. Show up and claim you are starting a “discussion.”
2. Be a rude, condescending jackass.
3. Frantically try to get people to pay attention to you. When frustrated, call people things like “JAP” or claim they are “angry.”
4. Then whine that people don’t welcome different viewpoints.
The repertoire is exceedingly limited and not very interesting. And this shmuck is so pitiful that he doesn’t seem to grasp how foolish the “I’m Craig” “I’m not Craig–I’m Gregorio” “I’m now Craig/Gregorio” routine is.
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By: Donna on May 23, 2010
at 11:36 AM
Rand Paul is a heck of a lot more dangerous to Republicans than he is to Democrats. He hasn’t even had the nomination for a full week yet, and he’s already managed to piss off minorities of color, the handicapped, coal miners and their families, and anyone who gives a crap at all about the Gulf. That’s a lot of people.
There will always be the “throw the bums out”mentality at any election and I think the dems losing some seats is to be expected. Not like it will really make any kind of difference with the party of no digging their heels in at every turn and the blue dogs working against the grain as well. I personally don’t see it at all as any kind of indictment on the job the administration is actually doing, just how well they got the word out about it.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 23, 2010
at 10:39 AM
gregorian/craig – sheeesh, you just don’t get it and never will. Differing opinions are fine. Rude condescention and “I’m right and here’s why” attitudes are not fine, and that’s what we get from you. You cannot be rude, insulting and holier than thou and then expect the people to whom you have behaved in such a way to be nice to you. The real world just doens’t work that way. If you want people to be nice to you, you must be nice to them.
“But at what point does America stand up and say enough of crossing our borders without our permission?”
We’ve gotten to that point, long past that point. Again, the issue with the AZ law is not that it will keep more undesirable illegals away, but rather, that it will make it even harder for good, decent hard working people who DO want to enter this country legally to do so, and law abiding American citizens like me will be subjected to unconstitutional racial profiling. But you don’t want to hear that. You only want to hear us say “well good golly gosh, we didn’t htink of that!! Thanks so much, smart white man!! You showed us the way!!”
“How many people can we support who do not contribute to the system before we are broke and cannot support our own infrastructure?”
A lot of illegals, like my grandparents, DO in fact contribute to the system. They work, they pay taxes, believe it or not. There are plenty of perfectly legal American citizens, a lot with blue eyes, who do not pull their own weight. These people do not need to be given a fish, for tomorrow they will need another fish. They need someone to teach them how to fish. But again, you don’t want to hear that either. You just want us to say “well wow, Mr. white man, you’re right again!!”
“At what point will the government be satisfied with my share of taxes instead of asking or demanding more for entitlement programs?”
If you were like most Americans, you paid fewer taxes this year than you did last year, and you got a $400 credit right on the top. Your taxes have not been raised. If you are not like most Americans and your taxes have in fact been raised, well too bad for you, but you are in the minority on that score. But you don’t want to hear that either, and no matter how true it is, you refuse to see it, acknowledge it, or accept it. You just want us again to say “well my goodness Mr. white man, I didn’t even see how much I paid in taxes this year, or last. How would I have known if we didn’t have you here to tell us??”
You are entitled to your opinion of course, but not your own facts. But you want to be entitled to your own facts, and want the whole world to think like you do. We here do not want the whole world to think like we do, which is why we DO NOT GO TO CONSERVATIVE BLOGS AND MAKE A NUISANCE OF OURSELVES FOISTING OUR VIEWS ON THOSE WE KNOW WILL NEVER ACCEPT THEM. You want everyone here to accept out of hand the made up factoids that you swallow down from Fixed News and such.
We treat visitors just fine here, gregorio. But you Sir, are not a visitor. You are a troll. There is a difference.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 23, 2010
at 10:31 AM
HoneyJo,
Why are you angry or upset at hearing another viewpoint other than your own? If so, you are living in a very narrow viewpoint of the world.
My gosh for all the name calling that I receive and goes on here ..it seems as if most posters on this board are angry.
You have your points to be made , its just that all of America does not march to the same tune. And God forbid that it ever does for then it will be a state run government that does card you or ask for papers to prove your part of the establishment.
But at what point does America stand up and say enough of crossing our borders without our permission?
How many people can we support who do not contribute to the system before we are broke and cannot support our own infrastructure?
At what point will the government be satisfied with my share of taxes instead of asking or demanding more for entitlement programs?
Just some of my personal issues and questions that I ask to be debated.
But some wish to castigate me for raising these issues on this blog and thus begin the name calling and personal attacks (farsight),(donna) like kids on a schoolyard. I have responded likewise..but more often than not, I have not gotten into that game.
I don’t think the using of terms like “little prick,cockroach,an alcoholic,with a make believe wife and sadistic” are really the types of terms you would like to be seen by visitors to your little world here. Some of you have resorted to a very low form of debate by the use of your profanity and attacks..
I believe most visitors would look at your posts and think what level of humanity resides here? Is this how you want to be perceived?
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 23, 2010
at 9:54 AM
A Republican won in Obama’s home district. Yes, Democrats split the vote, but it is still a victory that wouldn’t have happened a year ago.
Rand Paul illustrates the risk that the Tea Party may let its libertarian leanings undermine its influence. As I wrote before, the Tea Party could become as dangerous to Republicans as it may be to Democrats. They must decide which is politically more important to them–principal or reality.
David Von Drehle wrote in the May 31 issue of Time magazine: “There was a lonely bleat of cluelessness from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee… congratulated itself on a triumph in the special election to replace the late master of pork Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania.
Marie Antoinette had nothing on it. Could the DCCC really have missed the fact that Clark Critz held onto the seat by opposing health care reform, denouncing cap and trade, embracing the gun culture, and standing against abortion? If Speaker Nancy Pelosi drank Coke, Critz would have campaigned in a Pepsi truck.
Earth to House leadership. That’s not a vote of confidence.”
I keep score and also judge myself as harshly as you or anyone else. It is the only way to grasp a semblance of the truth and where the road is taking us.
I only read Honey JoRumples post, so I can only guess what that was about. Regardless of whether or not Republicans score big gains in the next election as the out party usually does, a storm is coming, and you had best heed the warnings springing up all around us.
“There’s a few things to be said
Do you believe the things they’ve told you
Do you believe the things you’ve read?
There’s a rumor on the corner
but its always been denied
Because they don’t want you any wiser
You’re just towing the party line
Look out for those who still want to grab some
Look out for those who live in the past
Get out and listen to the whispers
Because the times are changing fast
You don’t believe the information
You don’t believe it when its denied
So when you’re reading explainations
You have to read between the lines”
Have a nice day. I will–high school graduation parties to attend.
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By: James on May 23, 2010
at 9:23 AM
Maybe the trolls as they are called here should be looked at (and it works both ways) as: know thy enemy. Life would be very dull if everyone thought the same way — what then would make life interesting if you could not disagree once in a while. They come here to learn what we are about — leave a few thoughts about what they are about. We then move on and push each others buttons. I would love to be a fly on the wall watching Helen and Margaret reading these comments — if they even bother to read them. Do you Helen and Margaret??
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By: reader on May 23, 2010
at 9:03 AM
Well farsight, he’s kind of like a cockroach. You can ignore them as best you can, but even when you don’t see them you know they’re there, and you can only ignore them for so long. After a while, you just want them to go away.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 23, 2010
at 8:13 AM
vgman on May 22, 2010
at 11:32 AM
“Life is a chess board it seems.”
Really loved your post. I’m with the collective group, too, but I get more of a sense of PINBALL, than chess. Chess implies that we’re controlled by an entity moving us around the board. My experience is more like the way the ball moves around the pinball machine, hitting some obstacles, being sent in other directions, with a lot more interactions and deflections and other than the two buttons and a little jiggling of the machine, the movement is random. Sure, you can control the ball to some small extent (otherwise it wouldn’t still be a game) but we are very much at the mercy of our surroundings, and since we CAN control our surroundings to a very small extent, it’s the only way we can change the game.
I sincerely believe the best thing we can do for ourselves is to make sure our world is a better place for ALL of us to live. I believe we are all more connected than some of us want to admit and if our actions screw up THEIR world, we screw up our own.
Hi Farsight,
My almost 1 yr old granddaughter is still loving Kyle singing DoWop. I hope he (and you and family) are well.
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By: HRH sofia EQ on May 23, 2010
at 6:10 AM
Craig is the same sad sack he has always been. What I don’t understand is why you continually allow yourselves to be drawn back in by the little prick. He taunts and sucks you in. I’m sure he laughs himself silly in his unmedicated times.
If his wife is really what he says she is, I’m sure she has no idea of his little games here. He hides it from her as an alcoholic hides booze… ashamed of himself and at the same time denying the shame.
Look back at the number of times he lied about being Craig as Gregorio… and you waste your time with him!
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By: farsight on May 23, 2010
at 12:32 AM
Gregorio/craig – because it’s not an argument, valid or otherwise. It’s simply a difference in perception and opinion, and discussing such issues with you is pointless and a waste of time. You have nothing to add that will change the way anyone here feels one bit, any more than your mind will be changed by anything anyone here can say to you. So we yell at each other and spit facts and figures at each other, and create an atmosphere of tension, acrimony and irritation and agitation, and the end result is what? Everyone’s mad, frustrated, upset, angry, and no closer to agreeing on anything.
You ask why shouldn’t we engage you? I would ask, why are you even here when you know you are not convincing anyone, you are not changing any minds, you are not making anyone “see the light,” you are just making people angry and upset. Which to me is sort of sadistic. Is that why you’re here? To be sadistic? For the pleasure of getting people upset?
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 23, 2010
at 12:24 AM
I had another engagement, Poolman, but have submitted my information to volunteer. I have been working in my Congressional District to get new voters registered and on the early ballot list so they won’t be harassed at the polls. Considering the single digit approval ratings of all Republicans in Arizona among Latino voters right now, I think we have a shot. John McCain has really lost his grip lately. He either fired or was deserted by his campaign mgr and another staffer after that “Build the dang fence” video. Couldn’t even keep the sheriffs straight.
I am hoping that out of all of this chaos, there will emerge a goodly number of people of all stripes who will “call Bullsh*t” as Helen would put it.
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By: Gramiam on May 22, 2010
at 11:08 PM
Delurker Girl Δ
“Please stop feeding…”
Why?
Do you not have any valid arguments?
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 10:26 PM
Hello Gramiam, did you get down to Rodney Glassman’s opening of his Phoenix campaign headquarters at 1025 E. Washington? I saw that late today on my FB page and missed it. We got to get some new blood elected out here.
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By: Poolman on May 22, 2010
at 10:25 PM
I’m waiting Lori.
Did you read the suggestive postings about Public Hospitals in North Texas adjacent to Dallas County?
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 10:23 PM
Gramiam,
Such an Iconoclastic Icon you project.
Two more years and not another for a hundred more years, millions pray.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 10:22 PM
no one’s puppet
Issues…? Immigrant aliens,health care and now oil spill disasters.
As long as you have your oil and gas from the Southwest and Offshore Gulf for the past 60 years..you have not hollered until now…,and yet after 60 plus years with no environmental accidents you do not want to drill off the Atlantic coast
What about “your” Obama fool?
Can he have it both ways?
As for the current Gulf disaster, Gibbs got really pissy with the Press Friday..must be a sore point in the White House?
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 10:17 PM
Do not feed them! They will go!.
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By: Gramiam on May 22, 2010
at 10:13 PM
Ah, Anonymous. Do you want God’s plan for provision or mankind’s laws?
“If you can find substantive ways it is different, enlighten me.”
Seriously? Wow. Where to start. So many ecosystems we’ve disrupted. From over-fishing waters to polluting them with fertilizers and insecticides. We’ve made islands in the oceans out of discarded plastics and dried up rivers and wetlands to feed industry. Over-grazing grasslands, chemical spraying, deforestation, mountaintop removal, nuclear waste buried under ground and dumped in our oceans, and now an uncontrollable flow of oil spewing into the gulf. Whew!
Our human cells contain toxic material from the products we are exposed to on a daily basis. In a digital world we are continually exposed to radiation from our electronic devices. We have manipulated the genetics of plants that we use for food and medicines. We have engineered germs and viruses, allowing them to mutate into deadlier ones. Heck, recently in Fallujah we are getting birth defects at an alarming rate just since our use of white phosphorus there. Even in our own backyard we have exposed our people to poisons that cause cancer and birth defects.
So, a few changes come to mind. I’m sure there are plenty more I didn’t think of and plenty we are not even aware of.
“…the natural world hasn’t the slightest preference one way or another.”
Survival of the fittest and the ability to adapt does bring about perfection. A hummingbird with a perfect evolved beak for a certain type of flower, comes to mind. In nature, devoid of man, all things work together in a delicate chain or cycle that is perfect. It fits the definition of perfect and those ecosystems are described as such.
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By: Poolman on May 22, 2010
at 10:07 PM
I’m waiting Lori.
Did you read the suggestive postings about Public Hospitals in North Texas adjacent to Dallas County?
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 10:03 PM
No ,..Lets not entangle ourselves in an argument we cannot win. Or even debate the situation.
Thus deny the argument and choose to fight another day.
The Princess speaks.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 9:59 PM
Thank you, Delurker. You are so right.
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By: Donna on May 22, 2010
at 7:56 PM
Sorry to intrude on you all, but Helen, if you are still there, I loved this post…. as usual, you give us all food for thought and a good laugh at ourselves!!
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By: chris on May 22, 2010
at 7:52 PM
“Poor little buttercup,” we just don’t care about the issues you do, don’t you get it?
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By: no one's puppet on May 22, 2010
at 7:50 PM
Please stop feeding…
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 22, 2010
at 6:19 PM
Yes we can Honey an Gramiam.. and we will 😉
xoxooxo Joe
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By: lori on May 22, 2010
at 5:37 PM
vgman –
Nobody’s playing chess. I think Gregorio’s points are well made and logical, and in your post I find only hyperbole, mis-characterization, ad hominem and appeal to emotion that characterizes a man with no argument. I would ask you to sweep away the unclear thinking. I want to know “Where Are Your Points?”
(As an aside – as long as we argue along those lines it is not possible to solve any problem. In the past twenty years argument in America has devolved to the point that issues are always PERSONAL, and when it is personal – instead of each side taking the position that their opponent is well-motivated and has integrity but is in disagreement – there can be no progress – it is just two sides shouting at each other. I lay most of the blame for this at the feet of the ReBiblicans, started during Bill Clinton’s presidency, by the way…)
*****************
Ah, Poolman – where to start?
“Leave it to the white team to slice and dice and divvy up the resources meant for ALL of humanity.”
Really? Meant by whom?
“If we are truly an advancing race, explain how come we have destroyed more planet and lifeforms in the past 100 years than in all others combined?”
Nobody has destroyed the planet. If you can find substantive ways it is different, enlighten me. Yes we mine and farm and we alter our local environment, however compared to the earth’s own machinery we are puny. It was estimated for example, that Mount Pinatubo, in the Philippines, produced more atmospheric sulphuric acid in a week that mankind had during his existence. We will not destroy the earth, although we have the capability to sterilize the surface. It will eventually destroy us, though…
As for lifeforms – There are more species extinct than there living now, and man had nothing to do with the loss of most, since they became extinct before he was on the planet. Extinction is the future of all species – including man. It is nature’s way. Certainly man has hastened the demise of some species – passenger pigeons of course come to mind. However during the same period, thousands of new species have evolved. That’s how it works; it’s nature’s way.
“Evolution says we improve with every generation, getting better and better – moving toward perfection.”
It says nothing of the sort.
I haven’t the time or the inclination to set you straight on all of evolutionary theory, but the short version says only the following: 1) that random mutations occur in all lifeforms. 2) that all life adapts to its environment through natural selection by retaining those mutations that enhance its survival in THAT PARTICULAR ENVIRONMENT and eliminating those that reduce its survival in the same setting.
Perfection? What perfection? “Perfection” is a purely subjective human term and the natural world hasn’t the slightest preference one way or another.
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By: Anonymous on May 22, 2010
at 4:49 PM
Gregario/Craig is the perfect ASSHAT!!!
Gramiam….Margaret & Helen would be proud of you!
🙂
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By: Melissa on May 22, 2010
at 4:38 PM
Gregorio/Craig, Helen long ago coined a lovely nickname for folks like you. I am sure she would forgive me if I used it now. ASSHAT!
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By: Gramiam on May 22, 2010
at 4:29 PM
JOE,Don’t you have a wrestling match to watch?
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 3:38 PM
vgman,
First I call no check mate.
“In Leviticus, for instance, God instructs Moses not to mistreat aliens and to welcome them as if they were native-born.
But Leviticus instructs us in a lot of things that we don’t do today, although I suppose one can pick and choose to make a political point. And one could also argue (I think quite correctly) that by allowing and even welcoming legal immigration to an extent greater than most countries on earth over the years, the US has fulfilled any Levitican instruction to welcome the stranger—many times over.” neo-neocon
” A ban on any profiling that uses ethnic origin would make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws effectively, and would make them a joke. In a sense, they already are, because they are barely enforced at all.
And that’s what the people who cry “foul” about racial profiling want; they much prefer that illegal immigrants be allowed to stay here and that more be encouraged to come—which has been the effect so far of of our lack of enforcement coupled with our good educational and health care systems.
The demographics of illegal immigration tend to favor the Democratic Party, which ultimately gain voters through it.”neo-neocon
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 3:37 PM
Dear Troll!!
You really are a waste of time.
Scroll baby scroll!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 22, 2010
at 3:34 PM
Lori,
Enough of the pissin contest.
Google public hospitals in Texas and see the list.
JPS in the county where I lived has been and always will be a Public hospital. Read the following.
This listing will list both PUBLIC and private hospitals in TEXAS. And if you know anything about the geography of North Central Texas, you will be able to discern that there are more PUBLIC HOSPITALS than just PARKLAND in the area considered PUBLIC HOSPITALS.
Click to access hsprep.pdf
Fort Worth,Tarrant COUNTY adjacent to Dallas county..
Read on…
FORT WORTH — Public hospitals are bracing for potential cuts that could cost them billions in federal safety-net dollars under President Barack Obama’s healthcare reform package.
Having more Americans covered by health insurance could relieve some of the load on hospitals that serve large numbers of the poor, some officials said.
“I believe it will probably serve as a complement to what we are already doing — providing services to people who ****don’t have insurance or are underinsured,”**** said Tonya Veasey, secretary of the board of managers for John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth.
But the legislation will also bring changes in government reimbursement formulas, particularly cuts in federal supplemental payments to hospitals that care for the disproportionate numbers of indigent patients. Those cuts, starting in 2014, could hurt PUBLIC HOSPITALS such as JPS and Parkland Memorial in Dallas.
JPS Health Network has begun trying to detail what funding cuts will be triggered in years to come.
In Dallas County, Dr. Lauren McDonald, chairman of the board of Parkland, said that, as a physician, she sees many patients who lack insurance so that “for the good of the overall community, the healthcare bill is a good thing.”
However, she is CONCERNED about the potential loss of funds to Parkland for INDIGENT patients.
“My concern is that some of that money be cut back or redistributed, which could severely affect our bottom line,” she said.
She said she has instructed the hospital financial office to analyze the bill’s impact. “There’s a lot left that needs to be very carefully looked at, and it will probably take several years to iron out the details,” she said.
Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/03/22/2059075/public-hospitals-face-potential.html#ixzz0ohArv89N
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 3:26 PM
Lori – absolutely! Just let us know.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 22, 2010
at 2:38 PM
Just got word of a real catch 22 in this stupid immigration law. My friend is a cab driver. He is hispanic and works for a hispanic owned company. Federal law prevents him from asking any passenger if he/she is in this country legally, but if he is stopped for any reason by an officer and a passenger is found to be illegal, my friend can go to jail and the cab can be impounded.
Lori, I have a good friend in KY who is an independent, but registered as a REP. so she could vote FOR Rand Paul, her reason being that both democrats running easily out poll this doofus. Count me in on any help needed.
We in AZ have our hands full but like you, “YES WE CAN!”
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By: Gramiam on May 22, 2010
at 2:31 PM
Yeah, Rand Paul has shown some colors that may undermine a lot of hard-earned and long-fought respect that his dad has earned. Pretty scary with the civil rights stuff.
It doesn’t feel warm and cozy siding up with business in the wake of where business has left us recently. Those who are benefiting unethically and irresponsibly from the systems they perpetrate that want no government regulation to protect the public are not our allies. We live in a corporate world and cannot get away from the influence of business everywhere we go. From the litter in our countryside to the memories of our lives, corporations have exibited their influence.
But life in America, much like Hollywood emulates, has a way of turning the tides and it’s Kevin Costner to the rescue!
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By: Poolman on May 22, 2010
at 2:26 PM
Honey you are a GREAT writer I can seeeeee editorial writing in your future! LOL
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By: lori on May 22, 2010
at 2:20 PM
Honey, I will let you know exactly when we get closer to election.. But it will be in the form of get out the vote things…. calls-postcars-editorials to KY papers.. etc… you game?
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By: lori on May 22, 2010
at 2:18 PM
Lori – what can I do?
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 22, 2010
at 1:57 PM
Honey I can promise you I will do everything within my power to NOT allow Rand Paul to become the next senator from KY… YES we can! …
You wanna help?
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By: lori on May 22, 2010
at 1:46 PM
Ok Craig you are boring me to tears here… Parklandis the only free public county hospital in the area… please read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Memorial_Hospital…
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By: lori on May 22, 2010
at 1:42 PM
But Poolman, haven’t you heard the new Gospel according to Rand Paul, who just may be the next senator of Kentucky? Supporting big business is American, holding business accpountable for the harm they do is un-American, and they have the right to make as much money as they can, by whatever means they deem necessary and appropriate, cutting whatever corners necessary, and as far as the coal mine disaster and that underwater gusher in the Gulf, hey, sometimes accidents happen. No one needs to be blamed or held responsible. It’s just the price paid for capitalism, and all good Americans should be glad to pay it. Sea turtles, dolphins, a myriad aquatic birds and marsh land wildlife, the fishing, shrimping and tourism industries, not to mention simple quality of life, are nothing when the big boys on top of the heap have money to make.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 22, 2010
at 12:53 PM
Amen, vgman. And Happy Saturday to all.
Pawns, I say. We’re all pawns in the chessboard of life. Leave it to the white team to slice and dice and divvy up the resources meant for ALL of humanity. “Entitlement signals a rejection of the very DNA of America.” And then we wonder what’s up when all those chickens come home to roost. We don’t seem to learn the simple rules of life, yet we claim superior intelligence. If we are truly an advancing race, explain how come we have destroyed more planet and lifeforms in the past 100 years than in all others combined?
The biblical account says we started out perfect and have denigrated with each passing generation – a downward spiraling effect.
Evolution says we improve with every generation, getting better and better – moving toward perfection.
Though I believe in many of the tenets of evolution, I can see where the longer we’re here, the further we have moved away from perfection and how the ugliness of humanity has prevailed.
And denial. It is truly just a river in Africa, right?
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By: Poolman on May 22, 2010
at 12:17 PM
Step right up, folks! Have a seat on the porch and watch the best chess match in history!
Graigoria has called check mate!
And what mastery of strategy we are witnessing!
All to win! But then–there must be a loser as well.
Who is winning? Who is losing?
And are the strategies and motives leading to the best outcome for all?
Life is a chess board it seems. Watch out for the towering knight as he rushes forward to crush everything in its way. Who is to determine the fate of all the pieces that make up humanity?
Is it wrong for a mother to want a better life for herself and her newborn child?
Are these the same wants and desires that Virginia Dare’s mother felt as she gave birth in a new land centuries ago? Who gave her the green light to board a ship and seek a better life?
We have been traversing the lands and seas of this planet for millenia.
By withholding the care needed, or building a taller fence, or rounding up someone who doesn’t reflect your own image in a mirror–we send a message that SOME believe that only selected people get to improve their lot in life, while others fall by the wayside and roll off the chess board.
Why does life have to be perceived as so individualistic for some, and collective for others?
We are many and we are one–together breathing the same oxygen needed for all of us to survive.
As for me, I fall in the collective group that will do whatever it takes to help others wherever they are and wherever they may go.
Such is the trust that bonds people. I don’t trust someone who is only out for themselves.
Happy Saturday.
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By: vgman on May 22, 2010
at 11:32 AM
Lori,
I perceive you as wrong on your statement..
Here are just a few surrounding counties of Dallas and their PUBLIC Hospitals. There are many more across Texas.
John Peter Smith in Tarrant County
Palo Pinto General Hosp., Palo Pinto County
North Texas Medical Center, Cooke county
Hunt Medical Center,Greenville,Hunt County
Methodist Richardson Med Ctr., Dallas County
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 22, 2010
at 11:13 AM
President Obama’s
Weekly Address 5/22/10
BP Spill Independent Commission
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on May 22, 2010
at 8:46 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Honolulu Sally,
Hooray! As the saying goes, it’s in the e mail! Let me know if it comes through.
Just one parting shot regarding the recent mini-election. All those years we lived in Pennsylvania, we followed Arlen Specter’s career. He has had a rough go, health wise. But honestly, the poor guy flunked charm school.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 22, 2010
at 1:13 AM
Gramma Rock,
I don’t think I could watch the tv footage. What a horrible, sad, and tragic mess. The victims are the innocent. The guilty will come out smelling like roses. Hopefully this will wipe that smirk off of Dick Cheney’s face, but he will probably find a way to turn it around and blame the current administration.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 22, 2010
at 1:03 AM
i watched the news today as the bp spill washed up on shore. i encourage everyone to write, email and fax their lawmakers on the hill to get their restriction loosening butts down to the gulf of mexico and start shoveling crude sludge and bagging the casualty wildlife.
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By: gramma rock on May 22, 2010
at 12:23 AM
Sistah Jean,
Grumpy sounds like he needs to retire soon! At least he isn’t going “postal”. Remember when there were a bunch of incidences with postal workers killing their co-workers or bosses? I’d settle for grumpy, but I can’t believe he couldn’t give you the zip code.
I went to your website, but somehow my computer screen got skewed last night. I tried to use it to connect to our tv or vcr so we all could watch some Korean drama from MySoju.com and now the windows on my computer are super big, and I couldn’t scroll down your website to see your contact info. I used the connection from the Apple Store, and some other plug looking things by Belkin, and nothing showed up on the TV, and the computer screen got all mixed up with big font and bigger than normal windows.
Auwe!!! (means oh sh…t, or oy vey in Hawaiian)
Bruddah Peas, when you go stay with Sistah Jean, can you come my house too? I need to fix my computer too!
Actually Jean, please email me the Zimbabwe story here: u1st@hawaii.rr.com
It is an email address that I took out 3 months ago because I was SO excited about a program called Money Merge Account from United First Financial that helps pay off mortgages in 1/3 the time! I thought it was better than butter on toast! Better than mango on haupia ice cream!
3 months later, and many many hours of inputting and playing with the numbers, I find this is not the right program for me. I might have still recommended it even if it is very very expensive, but I will not recommend it because they will not refund a single cent based on their limited guarantee. Nada, zero, zip, zilch.
So, that email will soon be discontinued and thrown into the pile of lessons learned.
Hope Petunia is okay. If not, get Apple Angus MacIntosh. Macs Rule!!!
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 21, 2010
at 11:35 PM
I do think a few of you could have been a bit more civil with Carol. I found her to be rather disagreeable as well but she certainly wasn’t being hateful.
If we really want to change someone’s opinion we aren’t going to be able to do it by making accusations that really only bring us down to the level of whatever it is we are accusing her of doing. In her defense, she DID say “able bodied” when she was talking about welfare and such, I would agree with that. For example, one of my best friends is still unemployed and living off of unemployment a year and a half after being laid off. It’s pathetic, and he knows how I feel about it.
Carol made some good points and really wasn’t very hateful in how she delivered them. She did not deserve to be lumped in with that Virginia heifer.
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By: Kyle Aldrich on May 21, 2010
at 11:14 PM
Absolutely righteous!
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By: Kyle Aldrich on May 21, 2010
at 10:48 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, Honolulu Sally and Whirled Peas,
Sistah Sally, I called our local teeny-weeny post office branch and asked “Grumpy”, the lone postman there for Kaimuki’s zip code. He said he didn’t have one listed, that they might have closed that branch????? Also checked USPS online, also no luck. I think you can send me a quicky message from the comment at the bottom of one of my chapters on my website. I can’t respond from there, but I can respond to your e mail address from our personal e mail address. Got that! Life gets complicated, doesn’t it?
I’ll bet you are having fun flashing around $trillion Zimbabwean money bills! It is sort of like breaking out Confederate money these days. Some people are still saving theirs! I think you will enjoy my Zim piece when and if I can get it to you.
I am going to have to get our computer guru out here to help me re-activate my website. $$$$$ I want to put some more stuff up there, including Zimbabwe. Bless his heart, he patiently sits with me, holds my hand and guides me through every step of the way.
My computer, “Petulant Penelope”, has been misbehaving something awful of late. She has always gone into a snit when I don’t do things exactly her way. But she has gotten even more cantankerous in her old age. She is a genuine antique. We have grown old together. I fear that a new computer is on the horizon but I shudder at the very thought of breaking in a new one.
Bruddah Peas, I invite you – again – to come out and move in with us. We desperately need an in- residence computer genius. We will feed you, do your laundry and generally spoil and pamper you if you can keep Petulant Penelope going a little longer. Recently she ate the ‘Control Panel’ so I can’t clear the clipboard any more and I can’t clear the printer queue. That’s cannibalism, isn’t it? Brutal!!!
I’ve been reading all of M&H but not commenting. I can’t get excited about arguing with our current crop of fence posts.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 21, 2010
at 7:40 PM
Craig asks : Lori..
Does that mean that Tarrant county, Denton county and the other surrounding counties do not have public hospitals? I believe they do.
___________________________________
No Craig they do not have free county public hospitals. Your beliefs are incorrect. Hence my above response…
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By: lori on May 21, 2010
at 6:15 PM
Gregario/Craig,
Get out much??
What a fool…
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By: Steven R. on May 21, 2010
at 3:45 PM
Fiona64
What “nasty comment” about President Obama???
Lori..
Does that mean that Tarrant county, Denton county and the other surrounding counties do not have public hospitals? I believe they do.
Here are your facts Lori…
Historically, uncompensated care (the sum of bad debt and charity care) has been used as a measure of a hospital’s commitment toward safety net services.
In 2001, 354 general hospitals in Texas provided $5.2 billion dollars in uncompensated care.
Medicaid expenditures for all immigrants, regardless of legal status, more than doubled (114 percent) from 2000 to 2005. When adjusted for inflation, spending rose by 98.4 percent. The average number of recipients per month increased by 81 percent during the same time period.
Children with Special Health Care Needs Treated in Texas, All Funds 2005
Clients Served Percent Expenditures Percent
Legal Residents 633 30.0% 4,177,280 20.7%
Non-Citizens 1,452 68.8% $15,960,962 78.9%
The Harris County Hospital District, the nation’s third-busiest public hospital system, estimated about one-in-five of patients seen by the county’s healthcare system were undocumented immigrants. Medical care for these patients, both emergency and non-emergency related, accounted for $97.3 million or approximately 14 percent of the system’s total operating costs in 2005.[31]
In 2001, the U.S./Mexico Border Counties Coalition (U.S./MBCC) interviewed border hospital chief executive officers and chief financial officers to obtain an estimate of the share of their hospitals’ uncompensated care attributable to undocumented immigrants. Based on their responses, the coalition estimated that about 25 percent of these hospitals’ uncompensated care costs resulted from uninsured, undocumented immigrants.
Research suggests that “between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year.” The National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found in 1997 that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000.8
80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals. Drug cartels spend a half-billion dollars per year bribing Mexico’s corrupt generals and police officials, and armed confrontations between the Mexican army and U.S. Border Patrol agents are a real threat. There have been 118 documented incursions by the Mexican military over the last five years.
Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services. Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens.
Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals.
$60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year.
One of Mexico’s largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S. Economists say this will help Mexico reduce its $17.8 billion defecit and may bolster the peso. $10 billion dollars (as of 2003) are sent back to Mexico annually, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, reported in an Associated Press article, up $800 million from the previous year. ($9 billion dollars were previously sent back annually, according to a September 25, 2002 NPR report). That figure equals what Mexico earns annually from tourism. This is a massive transfer of wealth from America – essentially from America’s displaced working poor – to Mexico.
Education costs
The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually—enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.
****’Anchor baby’ Hospital costs
Hospital The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.”
It’s estimated there may be over 300,000 anchor babies born each year in the U.S. Thus, illegal alien mothers now add more to U.S. population each year than immigration from all sources in an average year before 1965.
These babies are called anchor babies because they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency.
Estimates “there are currently between 287,000 and 363,000 children born to illegal aliens each year. This figure is based on the crude birth rate of the total foreign-born population (33 births per 1000) and the size of the illegal alien population (between 8.7 and 11 million).
In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36 percent of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year.”
Thats just a few of the FACTS
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 21, 2010
at 3:28 PM
Helen, you are my hero. Or heroine. Not heroin, like Limbaugh likes to use, though. Your blog brings joy to my heart–and I mean that.
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By: Liz on May 21, 2010
at 3:16 PM
What this blog needs is some black people!!!!!
HOLLA!!!!!!!!!
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By: Rainboew on May 21, 2010
at 2:36 PM
Giving “poor little buttercup” credibility, sure turned the conversation dull.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 21, 2010
at 9:57 AM
About obtaining visas: believe it or not, it is not as easy as shopping at Safeway. It is damn hard, frustrating, infuriating, etc. And I not refering only to the plight of folks from the Southern Hemisphere trying to do it legally. Iraqis who have aided or are seen to be too friendly with the U.S. have been told they can get into the U.S. on special visas. Just how special can those visas be when applicants have to wait forever and could actually die (a natural or otherwise death) before they can get out of Iraq? This is a merciless foot dragging process. There have been promises from Washington that more bodies are being put into the visa processing business but the back up and back log is still mind-boggling. Can anyone on the front porch do anything about that?
It took my father 5 years to be sworn in as a citizen. This was at a time when there wasn’t an overflow of people like now trying to get in. First, he had to get a steady job, a fixed address, etc. In order to do either of those he had to go where the work was which meant he had to do a good deal of moving about before he was finally able to settle into one spot. Studying and taking the test was no sweat for him. He treasured his citizenship papers. Five years, lots of unsettlement and financial problems, and crap from various xenophobes along the way. Craigregorio and Jim, et al., could you cope under those circumstances?
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 21, 2010
at 7:58 AM
Sorry – typo on the last post. If I counted correctly, after “we disagree” it should say “Paragraph 5.”
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By: Jim on May 21, 2010
at 6:10 AM
Poolman –
That’s better. I was beginning to worry about you there for a moment.
Paragraphs 1,2,3 I have no issue with.
Paragraph 4 is a matter of opinion. We disagree.
Paragraph 4 I agree with.
On 6 I am not sure. That is an issue that will have to be dealt with after we stanch the flow of illegals. You know the old saying about the first procedure is to stop the bleeding. I don’t have a well thought-out plan to deal with those already here, and it will be a tough fight no matter what we do. The first thing a student learns in engineering school is to set priorities on a project; stopping the flow is clearly first. Then you have time to consider the other.
Paragraph 7: Actually I am a student of WWII and have pointed out the scary parallels between the rise of the National Socialist (Nazi) party in Germany – based largely on populist resentment – and the rise of the Tea Party – on multiple blogs. As for the Fox news swipe, I would point out that you know nothing of me or what news I watch. It might surprise you, actually. As people here are fond of saying, stick with what you know.
Paragraph 8 is your opinion. No comment.
Paragraph 9: Once again, you know nothing of me – and in particular what are my news sources or my opinions on health care. Red herring.
I WILL say that engineering is only my undergraduate degree and only one of those. I have others. If you would like to open another topic – on healthcare for example – that will be fun, too.
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By: Jim on May 21, 2010
at 6:09 AM
Wow it must be terrible to live in such fear.
Boogie men and illegal aliens everywhere!
Why don’t we jst engineer a HUGE plastic net that covers OUR country and don’t let any of dem dar aliens in … better yit jus get a zillion pounds of dynamit and blow us out to sea where no one can git us!
Poolman could you mke one of dem dar nets fur us? LOL LOL
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By: lori on May 21, 2010
at 4:03 AM
Hi Jean!
Discontinued that old address. Do you know the zip code for Kaimuki? Use that @roadrunner and I will get your message.
Meanwhile I am having fun giving out 100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars to parking lot attendants – you should see their eyes light up! One of them said he would go right out and get it exchanged, and was a bit disappointed when I told him it was probably worth a penny if anything.
‘Night all!
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 21, 2010
at 3:40 AM
Hey vgman – good to “see” you. Long time! Bet you are happy to be coming to the end of the school year.
Jim, first of all, I am proficient at CAD, so I can certainly do my own designing.
Second, the government DOES have the ability to control the border, as you admit with our military surveillence abilities. Yet they choose not to. They would rather keep the chaos and problem ongoing so it can escalate to the point where the people will demand action and once again accept less freedom in the name of security. The whole Patriot Act scenerio that we bought – hook, line, and sinker – that took away much of our freedom already in the name of security. By implanting chips in humans, positive ID is assured. Many groups have voluntarily received these chips. It was proposed for tracking immigrants by VeriChip Corporation.
Third, I called BS on your false claim regarding the US as the only one not able to control its borders. The EU has had major issues with illegal immigration that some feel is a greater problem than we have here.
Fourth, the issue is that America IS an Imperialist power that has 700 military bases in 140 countries and we don’t know how to solve any issue without involving the military and taking over other peoples’ governments. The same military whose escalating budget sucks up over half of our collected revenues. We are a warrior nation and seek to solve all of our problems with military solutions. The old adage: If you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I personally think that all the immigrants already here that are working, hold property, pay taxes, and don’t have a criminal record, should be allowed a path to citizenship. Companies hiring illegals need to be held accountable, something we have had as law for a long time, but fail to enforce.
Recently the flow of immigrants to America has seriously slowed as the economy has ground to a halt. Most were coming to do work that was abundant and American citizens were not willing to do. But those facts don’t play as well into the neocon fascist agenda. If you can find some accurate history regarding Germany in the 30s leading up to WWII and compare with the present US starting in 2001 and through today. We are so similar and traveling the same path. Try to wean yourself off of Fox news and get a more accurate source for history.
Those that control the smuggling of drugs and peoples across the border profit from things the way they are. At the root of the problem are our own keepers. Keeping the conflict going, supplying both sides with enough resources to keep it that way.
You really should get out a little more and away from the MSM that has done such a marvelous job of marketing propaganda to our nation. You probably think we have the best health care in the world, too. I tell you what, they have done a thorough job in the brainwash department, for sure.
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By: Poolman on May 20, 2010
at 10:33 PM
Jim,
You fail to look at the larger picture which includes many of the reasons we are in dire straits with this economy, immigration, and military industrial woes, etc.
Poolman has consistently shared insights which help us all understand the corporate takeover of much of our constitutional society. His stream of thought is right on.
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By: vgman on May 20, 2010
at 10:01 PM
Excellent! You are on the mark, Helen!
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By: Cathy on May 20, 2010
at 9:08 PM
Poolman –
I must apologise, but I’m having a lot of trouble following your fascist-corporate-implanted chips-your_world_is_coming-military-hired contractors-bullshit-flag pin-Haiti stream-of-consciousness posts. I really don’t know where you are trying to go there, so allow me to try to get the conversation back on track:
Back up a little, take a deep breath, clear your head and answer the one question I asked you – What would YOU do? What is your plan to deal with illegal aliens in Arizona?
Cordially,
Jim
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By: Jim on May 20, 2010
at 8:35 PM
Hi Honolulu Sally,
I tried to send you a private history on Zimbabwe but it didn’t go through to your old e mail address from way back when.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 20, 2010
at 8:20 PM
Fiona –
“The difference, Jim, is that you do NOT have to carry it with you at all times. You could go to the corner for an ice cream with nothing but a dollar bill and your house keys in your pocket and no one would gainsay you. If you are an immigrant, you have to have your “papers,” which as a citizen are not required.”
Precisely. That’s the benefit of being a citizen.
I have only one little nit-pick, though. They are not immigrants. My great-great-great grandparents were immigrants, maybe yours too. These people are illegal aliens, and no matter how anyone tries to muddy the water, that does not change.
To a great extent it is not their faults. Our government has failed to secure the borders and with a nod-nod, wink-wink has invited them here.
It’s still illegal.
” All it does is give some people an excuse to think that their bigotry is righteous; if it was *really* about illegal immigration, people would be far more concerned with our NORTHERN border, which is infinitely more porous than our Southern one.”
Actually, it’s *really* about illegal immigration.
As for the “porous” northern border – who cares? That’s not where the problem is. The problem is the southern one.
“Give me a break. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.”
Figured it out, huh? Darn. Honestly now – just between you and me – what gave me away?
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By: Jim on May 20, 2010
at 8:16 PM
Virginny –
Scripture doesn’t do it for me.
Actually, I believe the world is controlled by a magic teapot orbiting the sun between Mars and Jupiter. It’s too far to see with any telescope, but I believe it is there and it controls the past, present and future. It’s kind of thin on scripture, but I’m sure somebody will get inspired and write it someday.
Sorry – just can’t get into superstition. I’m like you – an atheist. You don’t believe in about 200 gods. I don’t believe in 201.
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By: Jim on May 20, 2010
at 7:59 PM
Poolman –
Excellent. Glad to hear of your experience. We should work together. I’ll make the design and you can pour the concrete. (wink)
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By: Jim on May 20, 2010
at 7:50 PM
fiona64, you crack me up!
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By: Easier on May 20, 2010
at 7:36 PM
Rachel Maddow explains things so well.
She was right on today.
Hello everybody. Just been stopping in each day and reading comments. We have quite the conversation going back and forth here on the porch. Love it.
School is winding down fast. Few weeks left.
Keeping the kiddos motivated is taking all my energy.
Did find time to plant some perennials in pots.
And join in with a community garden.
Remember that the hallmark of any civilization is how we treat each other.
Everyone step back, take a breath, and try to “see” our history from one end of the timeline to the other–we’ve been through a lot and when the tough times hit, we persevere.
Today, I was walking the dogs and I heard seven children running around the next door apartment complex yelling, screaming, swearing, and all carrying cell phones.
We ALL have a duty to make a better world for the generations that follow.
“We the people of the United States
in order to form a more perfect union
establish justice
ensure domestic tranquility
provide for the common defense
promote the general welfare
and secure the blessing of liberty for ourselves and our posterity”
MUST CONTINUE TRANSFORMING OUR COLLECTIVE CONSCIENCE.
Bye now.
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By: Anonymous on May 20, 2010
at 7:23 PM
Margaret and Helen are my heroes!
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By: Kris on May 20, 2010
at 6:49 PM
Oh and just to set the record straight concerning the editorial you posted concerning Parkland Hospital.
Parkland is a public hospital, it accepts patients from Dallas county regardless of their ability to pay. So uninsured residents from surrounding counties that do not have public hospitals of their own (and which are not subject to the special property tax used for Parkland operations) regularly seek treatment at Parkland. These surrounding counties actually transport indigent and uninsured patients to Parkland in county owned ambulances and drop them off. THIS is what has caused financial turmoil for the hospital in recent years, as the surrounding counties are not required by law to reimburse Parkland for services provided to their residents (though some of them have on rare occasions done so). Also, Parkland does not request information on a patient’s legal status so therefore any statistics your editorial has stated would just be a hypothesis.
Also Parkland delivers more babies than ANY hospital in the nation.
So Craig, I’m sorry to say your editorial is a little disingenuous! Surprise!!!!!!
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By: lori on May 20, 2010
at 4:29 PM
Craig sazs:
Check the El Paso, San Diego,
and Tucson papers and look in the sections listing court actions, crimes etc.. and start counting the Hispanic surnames.
____________________________
Seriously Craig, this is evidence you point to when you claim illegal’s (Mexican’s) commit more crime than whites and that crime in the border towns are up due to illegal’s???? Hispanic surnames in the newspaper????? LOL LOL LOL REALLY? ….
All I can say is thank you for belly laugh Craig… I needed a good one today! You certainly are a hoot!
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By: lori on May 20, 2010
at 4:06 PM
Just for you, Craigorio:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/35ef6e3a-5632-5e58-abe7-e7697ee2f0d5.html
Quote: They said Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever is investigating a person in the United States, not in Mexico, in connection with the shooting.
Kind of puts paid to that whole “the footprints were leading to the border so it must have been an illegal” bullshit you were pedaling, doesn’t it?
Tell it to the Marines, little man, ’cause the Army ain’t listening.
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By: fiona64 on May 20, 2010
at 4:05 PM
Just for you, Craig/Gregorio, here is the article AGAIN that cites that crime is DOWN in AZ border cities (and across the southern border in particular): http://mediamatters.org/research/201004290029 You’re welcome.
You and your fellow teabaggers crack me up when you claim that we who call out your intolerance openly are the intolerant “hate speech” folks. Thanks for the laugh.
Don’t try to turn your bullshit accusations on me, little man. You are the one who insists you know more than law enforcement in the Krentz case.
Thanks for proving your hatred for people of color in every one of your posts: snide comments about Latinos/as, saying it’s okay for them to wait until they’re dead to be able to immigrate, combined with nasty remarks about President Obama?
Your point is coming through loud and clear, Imperial Wizard Craig. I know exactly what kind of man you are, and I pity you for it.
Seek counseling. I am serious.
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By: fiona64 on May 20, 2010
at 3:54 PM
OK Fiona 64
Don’t wait for the hate speech till the end next time..just spit it out.
“crime is DOWN on the southern border in general, in Arizona border towns in particular”
And just where do you live Fiona?
Check the El Paso, San Diego,
and Tucson papers and look in the sections listing court actions, crimes etc.. and start counting the hispanic surnames.
AS to the ranchers killing..
Your implying it was not an illegal?…hispanic?
but another rancher, smuggler…
I guess Krentz was a suicide..?
and you have all the info???
call 911.
Maybe we would be just better off handing them money thru the fence and letting them stay on their side. Forget that..Obama hears that and he’ll use it.
I don’t think the people who hire them illegally are seeing a shortage are they?
So they have to wait 130 years?
I thinks thats OK since we have such a backlog of undocumented ones.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 20, 2010
at 3:44 PM
Hi YA JOe Give it a break……………….
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 20, 2010
at 3:29 PM
Trolls: Sarah Palin said you did not send in your monthy stipend to her PAC! Get with it.
This past quarter not one person from Alaska put money into Sarah’s PAC…..
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By: JuneauJoe on May 20, 2010
at 3:00 PM
Craig/Gregorio asked: Now since I don’t have to apply for citizenship…what does it take and how long?
You know, just for fun I am going to answer you.
In order to get an immigration visa (not a tourist visa — they are not the same thing, as I keep having to explain), an adult from Mexico with a family sponsor is going to face a 130-year wait. A minor child will wait 3.5 years (not too bad) — unless s/he turns 21 during that wait, in which case the wait is now 112 years. Source: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/05/12/2743975/head-to-head-is-the-reaction-to.html
By the same token, it takes 9 years to obtain an immigration visa from Bulgaria if one has a family sponsor.
BTW, the whole “they come here to go to school” argument? A student visa is not the same as an immigration visa; neither is an H1B working visa.
Of course, you bring up the rancher (Krentz, I believe is his name) who was found dead on his property. Buddy, if you have information that you aren’t sharing with the police, I sure hope you hurry up. You see, you’re strongly implying it must have been an illegal immigrant — and the police have no such evidence. Yet, you and the rest of the hate-speaking teabaggers go on and on in your blogs as if there were facts in evidence to support you. There aren’t any, you see — not one solid, main-stream media source has reported that even a *lead* indicates an illegal immigrant of the killing. Yet, you all gas on and on and on, ad nauseum, because in YOUR mind it’s a given.
I already posted the source showing that crime is DOWN on the southern border in general, in Arizona border towns in particular — and that the biggest problem is in primarily Caucasian big cities. You don’t like those kinds of facts, do you, Craig? Because, see, then your scapegoating of brown people falls flat on its KKK face.
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By: fiona64 on May 20, 2010
at 2:41 PM
OK…
Ellis Island worked for years….
At some point..somebody had a better idea.
Now since I don’t have to apply for citizenship…what does it take and how long?
Obviously people come here and get a green card allowing then to work or student papers in order to attend schools here …i.e. medical schools.
But how long, if you want to be a legal citizen, does it take to achieve that status?
I just loved the moment on last nights news with Mrs. Obama informing the children circled about her and informing them about the Presidents immigration reform ..and then the child perks up and informs on her mother being illegal.
That was a “kodak” moment. So the children were not vetted for the interview. Mom probably works in the White House kitchen.
So what’s wrong with an Ellis Island center on the southern border? Give them their papers to fill out and after they have been vetted for being not being a terrorist , willing to work and learn the english language to pass the American History and Constitution test…THEN let them become citizens.
Everyone just wants to give ALL a PASS.
And no one complains about throwing MILLIONS of dollars into a pot to care for those who did not contribute and also want all the care and freebies without paying income taxes and being responsible citizens associated with citizenship.
How many outside of the Southern border states have been run into by an illegal INSERT ethnic here_________with no license and no insurance?
Crossing the country 4 years ago on my way to San Diego on highway 10 approaching Tucson, we stopped at a Micky D’s. We went into the Golden Arches and wanted to use the restrooms.
Could not do. They were full of men, 6-8 hispanics with back packs and in various states of dress and undresse washing themselves in the sinks.
Now what would one think? Would an officer ask them for their ID? Would he be within his rights to ask, without offending those who throw open the doors to any and all?
Now would that be considered profiling?
Perhaps the traffickers should invest in some boy scout uniforms. Then the officer would obviously realize that these men were just passing thru.
Good God people. Wake up. We get the daily death tolls in El Paso and all along our border about drug gangs and traffickers.
Its nothing to hear about the heads being chopped off and laid out on the hoods of a truck with the bodies piled in the back.
And you want our officers to look the other way…? So far its been one rancher dead in being at the wrong place and wrong time on his own property.
Forget the fence. Bring our boys home from Afghanistan and put them to work based along the southern border…
But I guess we should start in D.C and find that mother who is getting free health care and education for her children and God knows how many others in her extended family.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 20, 2010
at 2:21 PM
Jim, Craig/Gregorio et al: maybe scripture can make it clear to you.
Exodus 23:9 “You shall not oppress a stranger, since you yourselves know the feelings of a stranger, for you also were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Leviticus 19:33 ‘When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong.
Leviticus 19:34 ‘The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 25:35 ‘Now in case a countryman of yours becomes poor and his means with regard to you falter, then you are to sustain him, like a stranger or a sojourner, that he may live with you.
Deuteronomy 1:16 “Then I charged your judges at that time, saying, ‘Hear the cases between your fellow countrymen, and judge righteously between a man and his fellow countryman, or the alien who is with him.
Deuteronomy 10:19 “So show your love for the alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 27:19 ‘Cursed is he who distorts the justice due an alien, orphan, and widow.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’
Zechariah 7:10 and do not oppress the widow or the orphan, the stranger or the poor; and do not devise evil in your hearts against one another.
All of this is based on the code of hospitality among people living in the desert often without optimum conditions for themselves.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 20, 2010
at 1:45 PM
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak out for me.” – Martin Niemoller
While this poem is something to think about, the personal history of it’s author makes a telling point!
http://www.veni.com/articles/firsttheycameforme.html
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By: Gramiam on May 20, 2010
at 12:45 PM
Jim wrote: Where are my papers? That’s an easy one: unlike most other countries, in America passports are not generally used as identification – usually it is a driver’s license. I obey the law. I keep mine with me when I operate a vehicle, and since it is in my billfold, I have it basically all the time – although that is not required of me, since I am a legal citizen. It is a government-issued form of ID with my picture on it – defined as good for ID in all states. Good enough to get on an airplane with 400 other people.
——
The difference, Jim, is that you do NOT have to carry it with you at all times. You could go to the corner for an ice cream with nothing but a dollar bill and your house keys in your pocket and no one would gainsay you. If you are an immigrant, you have to have your “papers,” which as a citizen are not required.
“Sheriff Joe’s” unconstitutional sweeps have dragged numerous citizens, both natural-born and naturalized, in for questioning alongside illegals. Why? Because they “looked like” illegals — meaning they were brown-skinned.
I am constantly amazed that no outrage is concerned about Canadian, UK or Russian illegals (of which there are many), and how it’s always about “people who don’t look like us” when these laws come about. All it does is give some people an excuse to think that their bigotry is righteous; if it was *really* about illegal immigration, people would be far more concerned with our NORTHERN border, which is infinitely more porous than our Southern one.
Not racist? Give me a break. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
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By: fiona64 on May 20, 2010
at 12:09 PM
Look at the hands – the outreach of our country. It is ALL military. When we send aid to Haiti, anywhere – it’s military. Military and hired contractors. We see everything in a military/corporate/ mindset and try to devise military solutions to all. We have that fascist feel. Yes. Build that fence. Papers, please. Hope your flag pin is in it’s proper spot!
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By: Poolman on May 20, 2010
at 11:58 AM
“every country in the world protects its borders and does it successfully” – Jim
I call bullshit.
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By: Poolman on May 20, 2010
at 11:38 AM
We have the technology to stop the flow of immigrants. We rather wait for the outcry to demand greater security measures and allow everyone to be chipped with permanent IDs. Of course chipping at birth would be ideal. Your world is coming Jim, you won’t have to wait too long.
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By: Poolman on May 20, 2010
at 11:30 AM
I am a pool builder, Jim. I build things in reality, not just on paper. I also use CAD. I know hydraulic and structural engineering, design, soil – all conditions, rock, plumbing, steelwork, electrical, all types of concrete and masonry, tilework, plastering, water chemistry. I have also built pool enclosures and residential structure additions. Hands-on experience. I guarantee I could build a mighty fence.
I also have experience as a stagehand. From rigging to lighting director. I know smoke and mirrors pretty good, too. 😉
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By: Poolman on May 20, 2010
at 11:23 AM
to Poolman:
I am sticking to what I know, thankyouverymuch – building things.
You? And your expertise is?
Be honest – I have a very wide range of expertise; I will find out very quickly if you fib…
BTW … tunnels are transparent to GPR – another of my areas of expertise. The military could expose the tunnels instantly; the technology is there, not the will. The feds don’t want to apply themselves to closing the border, but AZ is shaming them into HAVING to do it.
Tunnels and occasional missed aliens be damned; you don’t have to catch them all. 95% will take care of the problem.
And *your* solution is what? Leave the border open? Transfer all the wealth in the US to Mexico so there will be no “economic issue?” What IS YOUR SOLUTION?
I thought so – none.
Leaving the border open is not going to happen. It’s been open too long as it is, because the federal govt has refused to do its job. This is not rocket science – every country in the world protects its borders and does it successfully – that is, with the notable exception of the United States. However, any attempt to seriously protect our border is met with howls of “racist!” “bigot!” and naysayers like yourself who say it can’t be done.
Well, it can be done and it will. If it requires condemning a one- or two-mile strip along the border, so be it. We have the ability; what we do NOT have, with the notable exception of Arizona, is the WILL.
The PC-ers think they can intimidate AZ with boycotts and publicity but they are wrong. I have just personally written the San Diego Tourism Board and told them I am canceling a business trip to San Diego, because of their boycott of Arizona, and my company has transferred the conference to Phoenix. I am just one person, but not the only one. Let’s see who backs down first.
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By: Jim on May 20, 2010
at 10:54 AM
i love this site.
and i feel sorry for carol who left a few days ago.
sorry if people judged her harshly but dang, her statements are what hung her.
bottom line, i love this blog.
wish more bluehairs though along this line of thought, (i am a bluehair myself but still have alot of hippie in me!) my parents were both racists and were from two different cultures…but their problem was that i was colorblind and they couldn’t control me. not sure what will happen in arizona and i for one do not believe that everyone in arizona (or even texas) is a redneck and hope that you will realize that this is not the overwhelming perspective of those states.
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By: hemnebob on May 20, 2010
at 10:17 AM
“Simple, cheap, effective.” – Jim
Ridiculous, expensive, and impractical. A one mile wide swath? Sheesh! All that private property dedicated to border safety? What happens to border towns that are not a mile away from the border? Do you know how many border tunnels there already are? To date the most impressive one that they have found is 3000 feet long and 80 feet deep. I don’t see that another 2280 feet will stop them. If that is the distance they need to dig, that is what will be done. Where there is a will there is a way. We already have located hundreds of tunnels we have no funds or means available to fill them. Many are still in use today. Likely many out there have not yet been detected.
Jim, I say stick to electrical engineering, if that is what you know. Border control – not so much. No fence or blockade, no matter how extravagant, will eliminate the problem, as it is primarily an economic issue. You can’t solve that with concrete and surveillance equipment. If you need symbolism to make you feel good about doing something to protect our borders, keep up the fence building. That false sense of security should keep you cozy at night. Besides, we’ll need that fence to keep people IN this country someday with the direction we are heading.
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By: Poolman on May 20, 2010
at 9:59 AM
What is with the REPUBLICANS BLOCKING BANK REFORM?
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/dems-try-try-again-thursday-banking-r
The banks did a great job of tanking the economy! Time for banking reform!
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By: JuneauJoe on May 20, 2010
at 9:55 AM
For one thing, I repeat: SB 1070 does not exist in a vacuum. Even without anything like SB 1070 in operation elsewhere in the country, opportunities for general nastiness regarding anyone not a U.S. citizen are up and running. Consider the Canadian who was out for a walk with her American hosts in Florida when she was challenged by a local cop for identification. Emphasis: she was a tourist out for a walk with her hosts. When she could not produce her passport (it was in her luggage at the host’s home), she was summarily hauled in to the local precinct house as an illegal! That, folks, is an international incident. The Canadian Consul had to get in on this and it certainly made the latest editions. Cogitate on this: American tourists in places like Canada, England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, etc. being treated like this. Quid pro quo. How soon do you think Washington would be outraged? And especially if you are the tourist?
As for the umbrage over obstetrical treatment of mothers, would you prefer that they all die instead? In a heap just in time for the 6 o’clock news? And “technically” a citizen? How about “a citizen” as determined some time ago by the Supreme Court. As for dual languages, if Canada can do it, so can we!!!
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 20, 2010
at 9:41 AM
Just One Hospital
Unbelievable!
Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas , Texas is a fairly famous institution and for a variety of reasons:
1. John F. Kennedy died there in 1963
2. Lee Harvey Oswald died there shortly after
3. Jack Ruby-who killed Oswald, died there a few years later.
On the flip side, Parkland is also home to the second busiest maternity ward in the country with almost 16,000 new babies arriving each year. (That’s almost 44 per day—every day)!
A recent patient survey indicated that 70 percent of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants. That’s 11,200 anchor babies born every year just in Dallas!!!
According to the article, the hospital spent $70.7 million delivering 15,938 babies in 2004 but managed to end up with almost $8 million dollars in surplus funding. Medicaid kicked in $34.5 million, Dallas County taxpayers kicked in $31.3 million and the feds tossed in another $9.5 million.
The average patient in Parkland in maternity wards is 25 years old, married and giving birth to her second child. She is also an illegal immigrant. By law, pregnant women cannot be denied medical care based on their immigration status or ability to pay.
OK, fine. That doesn’t mean they should receive better care than everyday, middle-class American citizens. But at Parkland Hospital , they do. ” Parkland Memorial Hospital has nine prenatal clinics. NINE!!!
The Dallas Morning News article followed a Hispanic woman who was a patient at one of the clinics and pregnant with her third child—her previous two were also born at Parkland. Her first two deliveries were free and the Mexican native was grateful because it would have cost$200 to have them in Mexico. This time, the hospital wants her to pay $10 per visit and $100 for the delivery but she was unsure if she could come up with the money. Not that it matters, the hospital won’t turn her away. (I wonder why they even bother asking at this point.)
“How long has this been going on? What are the long-term effects?
Well, another subject of the article was born at Parkland in 1986 shortly after her mother entered the US illegally – now she is having her own child there as well. (That’s right; she’s technically a US citizen.)
These women receive free prenatal care including medication, nutrition, birthing classes and child care classes. They also get freebies such as car seats, bottles, diapers and formula.
Most of these things are available to American citizens as well, but only for low-income applicants, and even then, the red tape involved is almost insurmountable.
Because these women are illegal immigrants, they do not have to provide any sort of legitimate identification – no proof of income. An American citizen would have to provide a social security number which would reveal their annual income – an illegal immigrant need only claim to be poor and the hospital must take them at their word.
Parkland Hospital offers indigent care to Dallas County residents who earn less than $40,000 per year. (They also have to prove that they did not refuse health coverage at their current job.. Yeah, the ‘free’ care is not so easy for Americans.)
There are about 140 patients who received roughly $4 million dollars for un-reimbursed medical care. As it turns out, they did not qualify for free treatment because they resided outside of Dallas County so the hospital is going to sue them! Illegal’s get it all free! But U. S citizens who live outside of Dallas County get sued! How stupid is this?
As if that isn’t annoying enough, the illegal immigrant patients are actually complaining about hospital staff not speaking Spanish. In this AP story, the author speaks with a woman who is upset that she had to translate comments from the hospital staff into Spanish for her husband. The doctor was trying to explain the situation to the family and the mother was forced to translate for her husband who only spoke Spanish.
This was apparently a great injustice to her.
In an attempt to create a Spanish-speaking staff, Parkland Hospital is now providing incentives in the form of extra pay for applicants who speak Spanish.. Additionally, medical students at the University of Texas Southwestern for which Parkland Hospital is the training facility will now have a Spanish language requirement added to their already jammed-packed curriculum. No other school in the country boasts such a ridiculous multi-semester (multicultural) requirement.
(Sorry for the length, but this needs wide circulation particularly to our “employees” in Congress.)
Remember that this is about only ONE hospital in Dallas, Texas. There are many more hospitals across our country that must also deal with this.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 20, 2010
at 9:24 AM
HoneyJorumples:
Yes, racial profiling is exactly what it is, but giving something an ugly name doesn’t change anything.
If there is a robbery and the store clerk describes the perpetrator as a middle-aged white woman, that’s who you should look for. Racial/sexual/age profiling? You bet. But of course it makes no sense to stop a black man if that’s not the description of whodunnit.
You may have noticed that AZ is on the Mexican border and most of the illegals come across that very border. Whom should you look for? WC Fields said, “The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that’s the way to bet.”
Not all illegals in Arizona are Hispanic, but that’s also the way to bet. It’s just police work 101.
PFesser53
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By: Jim on May 20, 2010
at 8:16 AM
Virginny –
No, no, it’s really easy! The current lame attempt to build a wall – at exorbitant expense – and then have it fail so you can say, “See, it doesn’t work!” is pretty well exposed.
I’m an electrical engineer by trade and I could design a wall on the back of a napkin. Here’s how you do it:
Two parallel walls, concrete, eight feet high with razor wire on the top, one mile apart. In the center a third, (electric) fence with a continuous ground wire buried three feet deep, to provide a solid ground in the relatively non-conducting sections of desert. Infrared lasers (invisible), firing along the open areas between the walls to detect any movement. (With the two outside poured concrete walls, animal false alarms will be minimal.) Tall towers with a static line between them will protect illegals from lightning strikes on the fence, as will lightning rods. Staggered steel gates one mile apart on each wall, but half-mile from each other since they alternate. Suitable infrared (work in the dark) cameras on the tall poles, which can be directed by remote control to any area of concern. Since the fences will be a half-mile apart, there will be plenty of room on each side of the center fence to land a helicopter and pick up any illegals.
Simple, cheap, effective. And I’ll donate the design to the INS for free. Don’t bother to thank me…Just doin’ my part to keep our borders safe, ma’am.
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By: Jim on May 20, 2010
at 8:09 AM
Um, about that old “we must protect our borders” chant followed by the chorus of “we must build that 700 mile wall” and “then and only then” will we even consider discussing immigration reform. For the choir that sings this song, there will never ever be adequate border protection or strong enough walls. This is the song eternal for them. Hence, real immigration reform will never make it out of sequestration. Bet on it! No matter how low the crime statistics in the border states, they will always screech that they have never been higher. Truthiness over truth! The stanza about Middle Easterners melding into the Hispanic population is a real stretch, but its on the agenda due to skin and eye color. Its aimed straight at Fear Factor 101. And yes, a law like SB 1070 can run a state into bankruptcy, sooner rather than later. As for California’s law, its wording vis a vis SB 1070 is non-competitive.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 20, 2010
at 7:41 AM
I’ve been enjoying the pie. I’m in for taquitos and guacamole on election night…
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By: Dawn on May 20, 2010
at 12:51 AM
“As for suspecting Hispanic-appearing people, I refer to that great sage, Willie Sutton – who said that the reason he robbed banks was “because that’s where the money is.” Since the majority of illegals in AZ are Hispanic, it would seem to me that having a higher index of suspicion that Hispanic-appearing people (who have been stopped for a traffic violation, say) might be illegals would be appropriate, good police work. You know, “I suspect Hispanic-appearing people more because that’s where (figuratively speaking) the money is.””
Exactly. And that is called racial profiling. Actually, according to section 4, provision E, a police officer doesn’t even have to stop someone for a traffic violation. It can be simply “legal contact” which could be interpreted to mean just a cop walking his beat and seeing a hispanic looking person just walking down the street.
Since it seems it’s convenient for the conservatives and pro-racial profiling people to ignore my story, I’ll tell it again in the hopes that maybe it will stick. About 10 years ago, I found a really amazing Christmas present for my brother, something rare and hard to find, and I found it at the first store I tried. I picked it up and was so excited that I wasnt’ really watching my speed and was going a little faster than the flow of traffic, though in the passing lane. A cop pulled me over, and I presented my license and registration. Now, pay attention, because here’s the part that pertains to the subject at hand, he looked at my driver’s license and said “this doesn’t look like you.” Now, not really having anything else to say, I feebly said “no, it’s me, it was taken four years ago.” If this happened in AZ now, I could be taking a ride downtown in the back of a cop cruiser, detained, interrogated, even put in a holding cell. No one has offered anything satisfactory to me that shows me there is no way this could really happen. Of course it could. As a hispanic American, I know what it is to be racially profiled. I know what it is to be told “Are you AMerican?? Funny, you don’t look American.” this law TERRIFIES me. Of course I am TERRIFIED of being subjected to extra hoops to jump through if I am stopped for a traffic violiation, or if I am stopped simply for walking or driving while hispanic. Any law that terrifies good, decent, hard-working, law abiding American citizens, is a law that is flawed. The vast majority of the law is good, and I think could be very beneficial. But the language in section 4 needs to be clarified and cleaned up. Period. You do not have the right to suspect me more just because of the way I look. Good Lord, did you NOT learn anything from the Japanese American internment camps during WWII, or were you just educated in Texas??
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 19, 2010
at 11:03 PM
And food for thought on a bigger scale… “Can a real globalism based on truth and honor save the world?”
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By: Poolman on May 19, 2010
at 8:00 PM
Good to see everyone enjoying pie, whether it be eating or throwing. 😉
Now is a good time to check in on how the president is doing. I love using a right wing site for the facts. Overall, I think he is doing well, though there are a few disappointments. Tracking Obama’s campaign promises and seeing where he has compromised after the election is quite telling. I know compromise is a big part of governance. It is also evident of the ample power some entities have over our policies.
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By: Poolman on May 19, 2010
at 7:23 PM
Papers please! And yes, I have read the law and though it is much like the federal law, it is not the same. To all you supporters of the AZ advancing police state legislation: “…when police officers encounter someone whose lawn is overgrown or who perhaps has a dog that’s barking too loudly, they’ll be required to inquire into their immigration status if they have reasonable suspicion to believe they may be undocumented.” That’s REQUIRED with this law. An officer must make this call or risk disciplinary action.
“…the Arizona law, even in its revised version, sets up a clash of constitutional principles that could be fought over in the courts for years to come.
All this at a time when illegal immigration and crime are way down in our state. Now we are losing potential resources due to a state boycott. The tragedy is that it will not hurt those that are supporting this law. This is primarily a political ploy that we don’t have the resources in Arizona to enforce. It is, however, serving to place immigration at the front of the national debate. For that it serves a good purpose. I’m sure the lawyers are all licking their chops at the bountiful harvests ahead.
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By: Poolman on May 19, 2010
at 7:12 PM
California Penal Code 834b: (a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws.
Now let’s all boycott California, too!!!
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By: Carlos on May 19, 2010
at 6:12 PM
Now, Rob…let’s not disparage sexual orientation, even as a joke. Stupidity, lack of insight, banality…there is so much ammunition to use that doesn’t go there.
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By: Donna on May 19, 2010
at 6:09 PM
I think gregorio/craig is just an angry lesbian.
🙂
Helen…you rock!!!
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By: Rob on May 19, 2010
at 5:56 PM
Love this blog!!
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By: Chaya on May 19, 2010
at 5:29 PM
If you think for a nano-second I care about the opinions of someone so painfully dim, who is so frantic for attention that he picks up and drops names once he’s basically been told people think he’s a moron, you are incorrect.
Yes, I am a Jew. I don’t choose to base statements about others on their race or religion or national origin or sexual orientation. Having said that, stupidity is fair game. And you’re a regular Tournament of Dumb. (and, again, I think it is as likely that you are married to a physician as it is that Rush Limbaugh will fly out the window and burst into flames.)
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By: Donna on May 19, 2010
at 4:35 PM
Lori, let you know how much salsa and chips we need, bet it is a bunch. Poor old “buttercup” can be the sombrero, I’m brushing up on the Mexican hat dance, what the heck, I’m retired, still can manage spike heels, though. Party on.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2010
at 4:35 PM
“Craig is sad fool, an idiot, asshat troll.”
How do you really feel?
Well Donna you brought it on yourself.
I thought I was kind holding back myself.
You wear your badge proudly when its to your advantage.
Bigot
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 19, 2010
at 4:20 PM
I’m there NOP.. I’ll bring the salsa and chips!
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By: lori on May 19, 2010
at 3:56 PM
oh, it’ll be the old whine about how Mel Brooks could say stuff like that and it was ok. As if, in his wildest dreams, this dolt shares anything with Mr. Brooks.
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By: Donna on May 19, 2010
at 3:50 PM
He sure did Donna, can’t wait for him to try to explain that away. This has been a fun day, I had the time and was in the mood for twisting the tail on the troll, thanks to all of the participants, especially you “buttercup.”
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2010
at 3:47 PM
Response to Judith:
“And what happens when you are a citizen and don’t have your papers with you? A driver license doesn’t say squat about your citizenship or legal status. You would need a passport or birth certificate. I don’t carry those on me”
That’s an interesting question. Fortunately the Arizona DMV Website addresses this quite well:
http://mvd.azdot.gov/mvd/formsandpub/mvd.asp?txtNumber=96-0155
The list of supporting documents is quite extensive. At least two are needed to obtain a driver’s license. Resident alien status is fine, but you must have SOME documentation of who you are and that you are here legally. You will note that the list does not include “illegal alien.” So an Arizona license is quite sufficient documentation of status, and is accepted the same as a valid driver’s license everywhere else in the US. So no, you don’t to need to carry your birth certificate.
“And the law may say nothing about how you look”,
Thank you for acknowledging this point. It makes the rest of the argument moot, doesn’t it?
“but, really – who exactly do you think they’re going to be asking? Us? Somebody who looks like Gwyneth Paltrow or Barbara Bush? No, it’s going to be somebody who looks like Hector Elizondo.”
I can’t foretell the future, so I don’t know what law enforcement will do in every circumstance, but I would hope that they would uphold their oaths to enforce the law. As for suspecting Hispanic-appearing people, I refer to that great sage, Willie Sutton – who said that the reason he robbed banks was “because that’s where the money is.” Since the majority of illegals in AZ are Hispanic, it would seem to me that having a higher index of suspicion that Hispanic-appearing people (who have been stopped for a traffic violation, say) might be illegals would be appropriate, good police work. You know, “I suspect Hispanic-appearing people more because that’s where (figuratively speaking) the money is.”
This is fun! Your turn.
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By: Jim on May 19, 2010
at 3:44 PM
Thanks, No One’s Puppet!
Judith, you said it better than I could.
The lawsuits could really pile up with the Arizona law. After all, it doesn’t just say that police can question people if they are so inclined. They are required to.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 19, 2010
at 3:33 PM
aww…how cute. The troll called me a “JAP.” This is the same imbecile that whined about how he wasn’t a bigot. His self-control is commensurate with his intelligence.
No One’s Puppet–you are SO on!
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By: Donna on May 19, 2010
at 3:23 PM
Love ya Helen!
Where is Margaret???
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By: Madison L. on May 19, 2010
at 3:15 PM
A definite invitation to Margaret, Helen, Lori, JSRI, Donna, De Lurker, Judith and many other fun people to join me for margaritas on General Election night. I think we can thank the tea baggers for motivating the Democrats to vote in the primaries this year and since the baggers are driving sane people out of the Republican party, all I can say is Palin 2012.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2010
at 3:07 PM
Keep the chapstick – I didn’t kiss up to anybody during the Bush debacle and I don’t plan to start any time soon.
I too wish we had more protection to keep the borders safe. But a draconian system which targets many more innocent than guilty is not the way. Yes, the police stop cars for random reasons, but they still need to be reasons. The ones you listed are valid. Harassing people who haven’t done anything? Not so much.
The driver license stop might go something like this:
“Where’s your ID?”
“Here’s my driver license.”
“OK, you can drive. Now, where’s your green card?”
“I don’t have a green card, I was born here.”
“Prove it.”
At which point, the driver is officially screwed.
Worst case, we’re going to put a few of these through the courts and then we’re going to have a basis for a class action suit based on selective enforcement. (Might be called something else in other states, but you get the idea). The law will be thrown out. Of course, they could avoid this by enforcing it across the board, but don’t you just want to be a fly on the air-conditioned dash when Scottsdale’s finest stop a Scarsdale matron who’s down with her husband for the winter golfing? Not gonna happen.
The time and money that’s going to be spent reversing this bad law could have been spent on something useful. Like prosecuting employers (that Scarsdale matron is going to be really upset). Like more law enforcement on the borders. Like – just about anything.
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By: judith on May 19, 2010
at 3:02 PM
Love this site!
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By: Pat Johnson on May 19, 2010
at 2:49 PM
At this point in time Craig, polls do indicate the R’s do have voter intensity on their side. That is something I plan on working my ass off to change between now and November. However, what the polls do not show is a voter intensity for tea baggers (as NOP points out in an above post). AT THIS point in time the facts show that the teabaggers talk a big game but thus far have not been able to produce a win…against a D.
The facts also show me the teabaggers are a much bigger headache for the GOP than for me. Now if they are able to organize on a national level, get some big (ger) money behind them,stop the in fighting, and actually get a platform together, than who knows, maybe they will become a pain in my behind for the November election, but for now I am enjoying the respite. It is usually my party that is in this type of pickle!
Oh and as a personal PS … If you can’t take the heat of politics, I suggest you stay off of political sites. It’s a dirty bizness and not for the faint of heart. Toughin up buttercup…
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By: lori on May 19, 2010
at 2:48 PM
It seems to me jsri, that Democrats aren’t “known” for showing up for primaries during off years. Something is different this year.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2010
at 2:41 PM
Donna,
I don’t need your attention.
In fact I have five furry Yorkies that are waiting to play ball and have dinner.
So blather on JAP.
A lawyer Huh?
Well thats a good moniker to have..and as you would say, who gives a rip about your bashing posts?
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 19, 2010
at 2:32 PM
Lori,
Facts Lori..I cannot provide. Your much more up on the percentages than I.
We’re basically looking at preliminary maneuvering for November elections. Whether they be Tea Party candidates or elections for who will run off against who for the November elections.
I hope as many on our side of the aisle do, that the TEA group will not sacrifice the “rights” challenges to the very liberal candidates and their agenda with whom you support.
My crystal ball shows a definite increase in voters this Fall and that many of those will be against the left rather than voting for the right.
I have my chap stick from the last election.
The TEAS good very well screw up the curve.
I’m not a R. Paul supporter and as for his son more power to him but I do not think of “them”
as being main stream right. His groups are tending to be right of right. Sometimes too much of a good thing can be bad.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 19, 2010
at 2:28 PM
Well Craig I don’t have my psychic degree so I can’t predict the future, I can only go with facts. And the facts tell me that so far the few “tea party” candidates that have run against a Democrats have lost. Take Pennsylvania 12 for example a teabagger who ran as a teabagger endorsed by MANY tea baggers lost to a Democrat in a VERY socially conservative district that went for McCain ….So we shall see.
What facts can you point to that indicate your premise?
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By: lori on May 19, 2010
at 2:08 PM
oh please. Why do you think anyone gives a rip about your opinions? Nothing original, nothing interesting, nothing amusing. And yet, you sad fool, you repeatedly come here looking for attention. People make clear they think “Craig” is an idiot? poof…here comes “Gregorio.” People make clear they think “Gregorio” is an asshat? He lurks around reading but not posting for two weeks. And now, the “reemergence” of the troll. Complete with the James-ish predictions of what will happen.
Oh, while I don’t believe a doctor would genuinely choose to spend time in your tiresome company, if your spouse actually had a medical degree, look out world.
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By: Donna on May 19, 2010
at 1:56 PM
Judith,
I know your getting a lot of communication about the new Arizona law…
But we all have to have proof of insurance on our being or car when we drive. You get pulled over not for your race but for what? Random reasons right?
Police do it all the time. A broken tail light an improper turn or not signaling. Many time they probably let these issues slide…but it does give them the right to pull you over and see what’s going on in the car. Illegal aliens? Drugs? Children not buckeled properly.
I’m sorry, But I wish we had more protection to keep the border more secure. Its not just about the Hispanic population but also the Syrians,Yemeni’s,and other middle eastern peoples who are learning enough pigeon Mexican to mingle in and smuggle across to do NO good deeds.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 19, 2010
at 1:48 PM
Donna,
Do you get your joys from bashing people who have NOT attacked you?
What is your motive for instigating irritating discourse rather than communication?
This site use to be for people to come,listen and possibly argue their point.
You seem to have turned it into your own little school yard where you have set yourself up as the bully.
Please consider what you are about to write before you start to attack them.
Believe what you will Donna, but you need to think before you write.
I have no personal issues with you..other than attacking me and making assumptions that I’m not married to a very successful doctor, Associate
Professor of medicine and my best friend for over 34 years, not counting the ten years we dated thru high school,college and medical school.
Oh yes I’m a Republican and TEA party supporter who will gladly provide the lipstick for NO One’s Puppet, as she will have a lot of Kissing up to do in the future. In fact all of you, Lori,JSRI,Donna,De Lurker, and Judith might get out the chap stick. Its gonna be a long summer and longer fall.
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 19, 2010
at 1:41 PM
And what happens when you are a citizen and don’t have your papers with you? A driver license doesn’t say squat about your citizenship or legal status. You would need a passport or birth certificate. I don’t carry those on me
And the law may say nothing about how you look, but, really – who exactly do you think they’re going to be asking? Us? Somebody who looks like Gwyneth Paltrow or Barbara Bush? No, it’s going to be somebody who looks like Hector Elizondo.
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By: judith on May 19, 2010
at 1:29 PM
I hope the tend continues but it could change in a heartbeat when the lie and hate machines get cranked up. It’ll be interesting to see how corporate money from outside the districts enters into the equation.
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By: jsri on May 19, 2010
at 1:16 PM
Congratulations Rand Paul and his tea bag supporters, but what I found most interesting about Kentucky’s primary was: the total number of Republicans voting for Senator numbered 351,927 and the total number of Democrats voting in the Kentucky primary was 520,412. Arkansas: was Republican total 114,162, Democrat total 325,842; Pennsylvania: Republican total 818,694, Democratic total 1,045,590. Anyone see a trend here?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2010
at 12:56 PM
Carlos, don’t be intentionally dense. It isn’t about protecting illegal people’s rights. It’s about protecting everyone’s rights. Do you really think every brown skinned or accented person who is confronted is going to be an illegal alien? Do you really think the state is going to be able to afford the lawsuits from accosted, perfectly innocent and legal citizens who sue for illegal search & seizure, lack of due process and discrimination? Is that where you want tax money to go?
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on May 19, 2010
at 12:36 PM
Response to Judith:
“This law will require citizens ****who look like they might be non-citizens***(emphasis mine) to keep papers with them as well. Do you keep such papers? Quick, where are they? You need to have them on your person, remember.”
The law says nothing about how you look. That assertion is a straw man. The law says that if you are a non-citizen you must keep your papers with you – just like the law in every other country in the world.
Where are my papers? That’s an easy one: unlike most other countries, in America passports are not generally used as identification – usually it is a driver’s license. I obey the law. I keep mine with me when I operate a vehicle, and since it is in my billfold, I have it basically all the time – although that is not required of me, since I am a legal citizen. It is a government-issued form of ID with my picture on it – defined as good for ID in all states. Good enough to get on an airplane with 400 other people.
The ball is in your court.
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By: Jim on May 19, 2010
at 12:35 PM
I think there’s an old expression used by lawyers, “When the facts are against you, argue the law, when the law is against you argue the facts. When both are against you, bang the table.”
We sure get a lot of table bangers here.
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By: jsri on May 19, 2010
at 11:53 AM
“All non-citizens in this country must keep papers with them which explain why they are here: work visa, tourist visa, etc. This is already the law and it is Federal; it is nothing new. This is also the the law the world over. You can’t travel anywhere in the world without a passport and you are required to present your passport to the proper officials the world over upon demand. Fallacy: more straw man”
Well, no – no straw man here. This law will require citizens who look like they might be non-citizens to keep papers with them as well. Do you keep such papers? Quick, where are they? You need to have them on your person, remember.
Actually, you don’t. Because of how you look. If you did, maybe you’d see the problem.
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By: judith on May 19, 2010
at 11:38 AM
Love LOVE lOvE it, and you, and Helen too 😉
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By: lizzie on May 19, 2010
at 11:06 AM
By: fiona64 on May 18, 2010 at 5:39 PM
In response to a previous poster you wrote: “. . . you had better bow down and thank the unions every time you leave work on Friday for the weekend, take a paid vacation, have a paid holiday, and plan to have a retirement.”
You are so right.
My father was born in 1897 and in 1910 he left school and went to work in the Wood Mill in Lawrence Mass. He was 13 years old at the time and to earn his few pennies an hour he worked 12 hours a day six days a week as an apprentice machinist. He was involved in the infamous “Bread and Roses Strike” in 1912, the first time in US labor history that a major strike of this type was effective. However he paid a price and got beaten up or blasted with fire hoses several times while protesting.
http://www.lucyparsonsproject.org/iww/kornbluh_bread_roses.html
From that time forward he was a union man through and through. After the textile mills moved to the South to take advantage of regional “right to work” laws, and despite suffering countless indignities including the loss of his job and the subsequent foreclosure of our family home after the 1929 Wall Street Crash, he was still patriotic enough to enlist in the US Army in 1942, a month after the Pearl Harbor attack, even though he was well beyond draft age. He island-hopped across the Pacific for three years but somehow managed to survive relatively unscathed.
He was a very modest man and when he died more than 30 years ago, he took with him stories of his union activities as well as those of his military experiences.
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By: jsri on May 19, 2010
at 10:25 AM
The Arizona law is about political expediency, known at my house, as kissing the tea baggers’ asses.
And I have the giggles with Lori and Donna. Some stretch from Jim to James, plus whomever, maybe the Craig cluster.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2010
at 10:24 AM
Great Blog!
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By: FDR on May 19, 2010
at 10:24 AM
Helen Girl you can SANG!!!
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By: LaTreen on May 19, 2010
at 10:23 AM
What consititutional rights do ILLEGAL aliens have. They are NOT citizens here, people. They have humanitarian rights, but no rights or safeguards under the Constitution of our Sovereign country.
What is it about the term ILLEGAL that you just don’t seem to understand……they come here AGAINST the law. If anyone is here legally, they will have the proper documentation to present and they will nothing to worry about. If you are here ILLEGALLY…AND you have lawful contact with our legal system….bye, bye! If you want to come here to work…do so LEGALLY and you are more than welcome.
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By: Carlos on May 19, 2010
at 10:19 AM
Oh, Helen, you are too good to be true!
Why don’t you write a book?
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By: Nancy Jean on May 19, 2010
at 9:45 AM
In response to Judith:
Wow. Where to begin? So many logical fallacies in one post…
Firstly: It is not about race. It is about the law. It’s about the failure of the federal government to enforce its own laws, forcing those states to act who are affected by that failure. Wriggle all you want: drag in arguments about race, sex, fairness, sympathy. Doesn’t matter; it’s not about that. It’s about the law. Fallacy: straw man, some red herring.
Secondly, the Arizona law has been misrepresented. It simply requires local law enforcement to abide by the same federal law that is being flouted: All non-citizens in this country must keep papers with them which explain why they are here: work visa, tourist visa, etc. This is already the law and it is Federal; it is nothing new. This is also the the law the world over. You can’t travel anywhere in the world without a passport and you are required to present your passport to the proper officials the world over upon demand. Fallacy: more straw man
This has to be solved. In an emergency the first action is to stop the bleeding. I believe that the first process here is to REALLY close the border and enforce the law. What you do with those who are here illegally and their “anchor babies” will have to be settled afterward.
Ah, hell. That’s enough…I have to go burn a brushpile and mow my lawn. Sorry – didn’t mean to start a storm. This whole brouhaha seems so easy to me. You set the rules and you abide by them. If they are not working, change the rules and abide by THEM.
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By: Jim on May 19, 2010
at 9:33 AM
LOL Donna asks..
What psychological problem is behind James’ constant need to say “nyah, nyah–I was right!”
_________________________________________
I am pretty sure it’s called “the asshole syndrome”.. LOL
It wouldn’t be half as bad if he actually WAS right about something… anything…. Then at least we could have learned something, but he is never right!!!!!! That’s the funny part. He has about as much political knowledge as wellllllll Sarah Palin! LMAO
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By: lori on May 19, 2010
at 9:11 AM
Helen you Rock!
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By: Jake on May 19, 2010
at 9:01 AM
I haven’t said a lot about Arizona’s immigration policy, because I think it is self-limiting. If law enforcement in Arizona actually focuses on identifying all of the illegals in their state and then deports them, it will bankrupt their state and allow dangerous criminals a field day. One good thing, it adds impetus to the necessity of a comprehensive national policy. One thing is certain, it will include a way for some of people in the shadows to come into the light and become citizens, nothing else is economical feasible. It estimated, if memory serves me right, that there are 12 million illegals in the country, do the damn math those of you who oppose comprehensive reform.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 19, 2010
at 8:50 AM
oh, and “someone needs to remind you.” Really? And that someone would just happen to be the person who has repeatedly been shown to be talking through his butt?
And the use of the word “gleeful” in this context speaks volumes. Yes, James–“gleeful” about sums it up. You take your pleasure in believing that you are right and others are wrong. Again, nyah, nyah. What happened to stop your emotional development at the level of a five year old?
There are loads of people who come and stay with divergent viewpoints and who are most welcome and appreciated. The site is only “toxic” for those who act in a toxic manner. Look in the mirror.
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By: Donna on May 19, 2010
at 7:54 AM
SNAP!
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By: Nat on May 19, 2010
at 7:49 AM
What psychological problem is behind James’ constant need to say “nyah, nyah–I was right!” And, of course, the “I won’t read what you say in response.” Does he truly believe that his preening foolishness is of interest? I doubt it, which leaves as the only real possiblity that James is so stunted and sad that this validates him. Sorry, James–you just look like a simplistic buffoon.
As for Craig/Gregorio, if having his imaginary wife dissed keeps him away, let me be the first to say that nobody with any intellect, success, or education is remotely likely to have tied her fortunes to that disaster.
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By: Donna on May 19, 2010
at 7:48 AM
Wow…I wish my grandmother thought like you do.
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By: Nat on May 19, 2010
at 7:46 AM
Helen,
You are AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
🙂
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By: SinatraFan on May 19, 2010
at 7:44 AM
Have read SB 1070. For something so explicit as to how a prosecutor, for example, must proceed, there is enough in there for SCOTUS to declare it vague. Also, I detect the establishment of opportunities to allow racism, racial profiling, and a whole raft of unAmerican stuff. If you put this in a side by side with the Bill of Rights, you can see what I’m saying. SB 1070 does not exist in a vacuum. Look worldwide in history. Check out the edicts under Hitler regarding not only the Jews, but the gypsies and anyone else his paranoia landed on. Millions dead. Point is: what does this law do to protect the rights of the innocents that will undoubtedly be impacted? If you believe in the Constitution at all, you’ve got to think of that before you write a law and certainly when you enact it and implement it. Thats why I’m sayin’.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 19, 2010
at 7:30 AM
Some are poseurs. Some are trolls. Some visit to debate and maybe make “friends”with interesting people. Jim, for example, makes some good points.
No matter. People either agree with the majority, or name calling and insults drive them away. This is a toxic site for such visitors. Its great for the rest of you. People with divergent opinions are gone, at no cost to you.
Ironically, they have proven to be right and you wrong about several issues. I return because someone needs to remind you.
A long time ago, I made some predictions to Honolulu Sally, and except for inflation, they have been coming true, as I have gleefully reported from time to time. Honolulu Sally, by the way, is a class act. She and a few others represent the best of this site.
Blogger Jenifer Rubin wrote ” Democrats held John Murtha’s seat with a candidate who ran a well-polished campaign.” Politico wrote “…Critz ran on a conservative platform to highlight his opposition to the health care reform legislation.” He sounds interchangeable with Republicans to me.
As Rubin wrote, “specific candidates matter…Critz survived by running against Obamacare, and he was smart enough to keep Obama out of the district, bringing Bill Clinton in to campaign with him.”
“Winners: The Tea Partiers, conviction politics, anti-Washington candidates, and fiscal conservatism. Losers: Obama, Democratic incumbents, big spenders, and endorsements by office holders. Democrats who haven’t ingested the Obama Kool-Aid will–or should–start fretting about less than stellar candidates. Many of them are going to lose in November.”
I don’t care what if anything you write about my post, because I won’t be here to read it. I do wish you would read the Arizona law before you condemn or praise it. That’s more than most of the Obama administration has done.
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By: James on May 19, 2010
at 7:10 AM
Helen, you are the best!
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By: Steven R. on May 19, 2010
at 6:57 AM
Helen, Margaret: I just love you.
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By: Deb on May 19, 2010
at 6:53 AM
To respond to Jim, I’m going to copy one of my earlier posts.
“Imagine your house. Imagine the square mile surrounding it. Assuming you live in an area of average population density, isn’t it likely that somewhere in this square mile, somebody is Up To No Good? In fact, statistically it’s probably a dead certainty that there is a least one case of illegal activity or status.
Ok, imagine the authorities going house to house, looking for evidence and requiring everybody to account for themselves. Remember, we know for a fact there’s illegal activity somewhere.
How about it, bub? Feel harassed? Rights violated? Is this constitutional enough for you?
I doubt it. You didn’t do anything wrong. You and your activities are perfectly legal. And so are the vast majority of people of Hispanic descent in Arizona.
I’m tired of the yelps of “What about the guilty?” They’re a small minority. Just tell me – what about the innocent?”
Look – the complaints aren’t about the guilty. Everybody agrees the borders need to be tightened. Criminals, terrorists – all need to be dealt with.
But the only way this strategy is reasonable is if you start with the belief “They’re all guilty. They’re not like us. They don’t belong here.”
If it was your innocent parent, sister, friend who was stopped on the street or at their job and asked to account for themselves, your screaming would never stop until the policy was reversed. If it was you, picket lines and lawsuits would be the order of the day. But you know it’s not going to be you, so it’s ok.
The law is quite clear – innocent until proven guilty. Racial profiling assumes guilt. Taking away the rights of the innocent to catch a few guilty has been overturned time and time again. It will be this time, too.
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By: judith on May 19, 2010
at 6:41 AM
I have had trouble understanding the issues surrounding the Arizona law, but someone forwarded this to me: Please forgive the length.
Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let’s say I break into your house. Let’s say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, “I’ve made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I’ve done all the things you don’t like to do. I’m hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add me to your family’s insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide other benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do your yard work because he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part). If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there.
It’s only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I’m just trying to better myself. I’m hard-working and honest, um…., except for well, you know.
And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being an anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me.
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By: Jim on May 19, 2010
at 6:17 AM
I am hoping for a miracle too Sally! GOTV will be crucial! Nothing is impossible…….as we all know.
;-D
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By: lori on May 19, 2010
at 3:37 AM
In Hawaii, the Republican candidate, Charles Djou is looking and acting like he won the special election for the House of Representatives. I liked him as our district city councilman, but he sure looks like a rooster now. However, we still have 3 more days of mail in/drop off ballots, and this is a winner take all situation (I thought incorrectly earlier that there would be another election if no one won by more than 50% of the vote). I am still pulling for Colleen Hanabusa, the underdog. In any case, this is an interim position, and another election for the position will be held during the regular voting season this fall.
Jean, what a full and wonderful life you have. Thank you for sharing your travel experiences. Also your history lessons.
Could I request a private lesson? What happened to Zimbabwe? I bought some 100,000,000,000,000 (100 trillion) Zimbabwe dollars on ebay, and have google searched it. The search mentioned Zimbabwe being the pearl of Africa, and then hyperinflation, then, in 1999 they started knocking off 12 zeros from the currency. How is it now?
Sally
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 19, 2010
at 3:27 AM
The Democrat’s held Pennsylvania 12 (John Murtha’s seat). YAY!… Thanks to everyone who helped with your calls/letters/ GOTV efforts! This was no cake walk. Obama did not take this district and it had been trending heavy GOP for a decade or so, this win was a significant bellweather… !!! Yes we can!
A few GOP pundits were predicting if Critz won the Dems will hold the house next fall…. For once let’s hope they are right. We are certainly off to a great start. Let’s keep it up!
Thanks again!
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By: lori on May 19, 2010
at 2:47 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and judith on May 18, 2010 at 12:20 PM,
P.S. to my lengthy comment earlier today. We took Turkish Airlines to and from Istanbul to Cappadocia. On the way back the flight attendant very politely asked to re-seat us. OK. We hauled down our carry-ons and followed her to separate seats farther back in the plane. I was seated between two handsome young Turkish men. They both spoke excellent English so we had a delightful chat for the 30 minute flight. The only Turkish words I knew were “taksi” and “polosi” from the signs on their “otos”.
When we deplaned, my husband was fuming. I hadn’t noticed, but our original assigned seats were by the emergency exit. He figured that when the crew got a look at us, they decided we were too feeble to open the doors in case of an emergency. He was incensed and said we should sue the airline on the basis of age discrimination!
judith, I’m with you on the language thing. I think we Americans should hang our heads in shame that we know only one language. And from the looks of some of the comments here, there are a few who aren’t too proficient in that either! We have rarely been anywhere in Europe, North Africa or Asia where people on the street were not either bi-lingual or multi-lingual. I studied Latin, which is such a great background for many of the Romance languages. I am fairly fluent in French. (My husband speaks French in his sleep so I had to learn it to understand what he was talking about, nosy me.) I can get by in Italian, Spanish and German should the occasion arise. And of course Hawaiian and Pidgin. We always tried to do our homework on places we going to travel. That included a little Chinese and other Asian languages. Another language is not that hard to learn if you have an ear for it and are willing to try. Learn another language and you learn to understand and appreciate the people and their culture. If we restrict ourselves to only our ‘native’ language, we limit ourselves and miss out on a lot of fascinating adventures.
By the way, speaking of English only. If you are from Mississippi, you will be unintelligible in North Philly and vice versa. Ever hear of regional accents and colloquialism, folks? And England, Ireland, Scotland, Australia and New Zealand? Forget about it.
Uh, I am outta here for a while. Some of you may be grateful for that. At any rate, carry on, my dear friends.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 19, 2010
at 12:46 AM
Great stuff!
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By: perle0 on May 19, 2010
at 12:08 AM
Donna is always interesting, can the same be said….
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By: No One's Puppet on May 18, 2010
at 9:26 PM
And all of you morons who feel the need to defend yourself whenever someone dissagrees with you or calls you a name… my god what losers. You crack me up. If you don’t like it, just move on to the next website. What morons.
HAHAHAHAH LOL
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By: Kevin on May 18, 2010
at 9:25 PM
I just LOVE this site.
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By: Kevin on May 18, 2010
at 9:23 PM
Donna..You are so brilliant.
Bask in your wit…and intelligence.
Noxious..really?
Such a demeaning and abhorrent commentary for what?
To make yourself feel better?
Enjoy………
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 18, 2010
at 9:23 PM
Love it!!
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By: Janet on May 18, 2010
at 8:16 PM
I believe that Kramer 10:31 AM is another one of those frustrated gays who is consumed with thinking about gay people. Just jump over that fence, Kramer – it didn’t kill George Rekers, it won’t kill you either.
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By: Martha Unalaska Yard Sign on May 18, 2010
at 8:09 PM
The Arizona situation: A skit
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/arizona-racism-past-prologue-living-color
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By: JuneauJoe on May 18, 2010
at 8:09 PM
@ Stacey Anne
Well, now we do! You are actually much worse than I thought – thanks for showing us what you really stand for: creates a vengeful god who punishes ugly humans, exhibits rude public behavior, uses bad grammar, and proclaims that thinking people are evil.
Oh yes, you’re gonna go far – I began to see your future in my crystal ball, right before it exploded from laughter!
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By: Martha Unalaska Yard Sign on May 18, 2010
at 8:00 PM
Michelle, you’ve hit the nail on the head, we, the readers, tend to be people of like opinion, who thoroughly enjoy Helen’s witty reproach to the crazies, Palin, Limbaugh, and crybaby Beck. And many of the readers also have an ability to express their own experiences and opinions in a humorous fashion, some not so much, of course. And Margaret when you let loose with your apt opinion, like a strike of a bullwhip, you crack me up. Love you gals, have from the first and always will, you will be young forever.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 18, 2010
at 7:53 PM
“And just how stupid does Sarah Palin have to be before you reconsider giving her the codes to the nukes?”
She’ll also be tyin’ up that red phone ordering bumpits & Taco Bell Crunchwrap Supremes. She’ll think they made it just for her to match her Naughty Monkey shoes. She’s the twit who thinks that calling her Space Cadet is giving her an honorary military title. Not bright, that one!
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By: Martha Unalaska Yard Sign on May 18, 2010
at 7:45 PM
Carol wrote: You want cheaper tomatoes??? Reign in the unions….the true bane of this nation!
Lady, you had better bow down and thank the unions every time you leave work on Friday for the weekend, take a paid vacation, have a paid holiday, and plan to have a retirement.
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By: fiona64 on May 18, 2010
at 5:39 PM
Anne wrote: By the way, I read a great editorial in Newsweek this morning about the drug smuggling and human trafficing problems in Arizona (where 60% of our drugs cross the border) and it has really taken over cities like Pheonix and Tucson. This law is a way of dealing with the problem, since the government can’t seem to close the borders. Neighborhoods have been completely taken over and parents are afriad to let their kids play in the backyard. It’s really horrible.
Um, no.
Crime is *down* in Arizona overall, but particularly so in the border towns. The areas where crime is heaviest are mostly Caucasian. This law has nothing to do with immigration (which is properly a Federal matter); tell me how “papers please” does anything to curb illegal immigration? This is all about harassing people of color for daring to be brown in public.
Source for my assertion: http://mediamatters.org/research/201004290029
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By: fiona64 on May 18, 2010
at 5:35 PM
Hi Congenial Gang,
By now most of you know that the beautiful Miss Michigan was crowned Miss U.S. in the Miss Universe beauty pageant. The next day it was revealed that she is Arab-American of Lebanese descent and a Muslim. uawtradesman must be having an apoplectic fit about now. I think it is sad that the media’s stereotypical depiction of people who are different from some of us seems to make us believe it is true of all of them. Example, I seriously doubt that Miss Michigan has ever worn a veil or a chador.
You know how I like to tell my stories. What reminded me was Miss Michigan’s triumph and the book I just read, Anne Perry’s “The Sheen on the Silk”, a novel about the Byzantine Empire during the Middle Ages. If you think world politics and religious conflicts are crazy now, they are tame compared to what historically went on then!
We were in Istanbul, Turkey (formerly Constantinople) in 2006. We had had a tight connection in Frankfort, Germany and our luggage didn’t make it. So we wandered around for almost a week in rumpled and increasingly ripe clothes. We tried to stay down-wind of people. (This had happened to us before so we always took at least a few pairs of clean undies in our carry-ons.)
Instead of the multi-storied Western type hotels, we had purposely booked one, the “Megara Palace”, in the ancient part of the city abutting the Roman wall. The wall was partly in ruins with vines crawling up it, but still standing tall in many places surrounding the city. Actually, the Roman walls were in pretty good shape considering their age. (Like us!) The hotel must have been built by Constantine himself, it was that old. (Constantine was of course the first Christian Roman Emperor and moved his capitol from Rome to Constantinople about 324AD. The Byzantine Empire grew to be the most glorious city in the world for over a thousand years.) At the crossroads of the two continents, 5% of Turkey is in Europe and 95% in Asia.
The Megara Palace was entirely built of stone, three stories high and rather cavernous. Sound echoed throughout the hotel. The lobby was relatively modest but comfortable. There was a large, quite handsome parrot in a cage and three big snow-white cats with blue eyes lounging around on chairs and sofas. Often the parrot was whistling and chattering away while the cats communicated with him in meows. (Like telling him to shut up?)
After we checked in, we had to schlep our carry-ons up a treacherous stone spiral staircase to the third floor. There was no bellman. The steps were quite narrow and steep. We clutched the railings for dear life! Our room was tiny. I paced it off – 12’ X 12’.
The next day we were out and about exploring the city on foot – the Hagia Sofia, the Blue Mosque, the Roman Cistern and the Hippadrome, where the famous chariot races took place. The whole works! It is like any city in the U.S. with banks, business buildings and upscale stores with expensive merchandise. The only exceptions were that the language and signs are in Turkish. The hotel was within walking distance of all those as well as the ancient and celebrated landmarks.
The famous Hagia Sofia was one of the first Christian Basilicas and a magnificent edifice. After the Muslim Turks conquered what was left of the Byzantine Empire in 1453AD, they turned it into a Mosque. They plastered or whitewashed over the mosaics and put up enormous circular medallions with names in Arabic as well as four minarets outside. Islam takes literally the Ten Commandment about ‘Graven Images’ so does not permit depiction of living people or even animals in their art or sculpture. As a result, they developed exquisite intricate geometric designs.
Across the way from the Hagia Sofia is the equally famous Blue Mosque. It is an active Mosque in a predominately Muslim country, although Turkey is now a secular state since 1935. The architecture of both the Hagia Sofia and the Blue Mosque are almost identical with the characteristic high central domes. However, the Blue Mosque has six minarets, two more than the Hagia Sofia. (St. Peter’s in Rome and the capitol dome in Washington is patterned after that form of architecture.)
The Hagia Sofia is now a museum for its historical significance. The enormous and exquisite mosaics have been recovered and restored. Made of ¼ inch pieces of glass (tesserae), painted stone and gold, they are breathtaking! Both the Hagia Sofia and the Blue Mosque with their lovely landscaped and manicured grounds are beautifully maintained. I’m hoping you will want to Google both the Hagia Sofia and the Blue Mosque for yourself. I could not begin to describe them adequately.
So now, in this day and age, the Christian Hagia Sofia and the Muslim Blue Mosque sit side by side, facing each other peacefully. Maybe one day Christian and Muslim peoples will someday do the same.
As we were strolling along, there were two men sitting on a stoop, smoking a hookah, a water pipe. They grinned at us and gestured to us, offering us a smoke. Hashish, maybe? We declined, smiling but offering our regrets with negative nods.
We left Istanbul for Cappadocia for three days. That’s a whole other story. But when we returned, the desk clerk had taken pity on us and put us in a room on the first floor so we didn’t have to climb that deadly spiral stone staircase anymore. Also, our luggage had arrived and he had delivered it to our room. Clean clothes!
Our last morning in Istanbul, we climbed those damn stairs to their fourth floor rooftop terrace restaurant for breakfast. On an expanse of balcony, we stood and looked out over the Roman walls, the city, the Golden Horn (the harbor) and beyond to the Marmara Denizi (Sea of Marmara) where Alexander the Great sailed along with countless others through the corridors of time.
In our room and in the lofty narrow hallways of the hotel we kept hearing the cats in the lobby meowing and the parrot whistling and chatting away. When we checked out, the cats were curled up and snoozing on the chairs and sofa. To our surprise, it was the parrot doing the meowing! He had learned to imitate them perfectly.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 18, 2010
at 5:03 PM
Here’ s a thought….How about we just leave comments that compliment MARGARET & HELEN on a brilliant blog?
I come here for the incredible writing and for a good laugh.
I get that from MARGARET & HELEN!
🙂
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By: Michelle on May 18, 2010
at 4:16 PM
and it was such a nice two weeks….but at least we have established (if anyone had any doubt) that the noxious Craig re-appeared as the equally noxious Gregorio.
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By: Donna on May 18, 2010
at 4:09 PM
This is just one aspect of the Rushes, Becks and that ilk that bothers me – they have to attack people of different thoughts on a personal level. Several on this blog have resorted to same type of attack. I read as far as Carol leaving never to return (so she says) I thought those of us who regularly visit this porch were better than that. Do we have to go down that path? Or should we just state our point of view or direct those of other opinions to sources of information that support our view instead of just attacking the other person – calling them wingnuts, douchbag, etc. or just plain attacking someones’ intelligence. Even though I am not in favor of the Racial Profiling that AZ is involved in — should we make such strong opinion when we have not walked a mile in their shoes. Judge Judy made an interesting statement when she was asked about this topic on the view. She said “I would be afraid of giving that much power to a law enforcement group.” Something to consider — can anyone say Nazi???!!
Instead of calling them names lets address their “intelligent” arguements politely and with backed up facts. The ones who just enter make a one sentence stab you in the back comment — let’s not respond to the at all. The worst thing you can do to someone is “ignore” them.
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By: reader on May 18, 2010
at 3:37 PM
AS one last aside.
I had two men replacing windows in my house in here in west Texas last week. One fair complexioned young man with sandy hair had a distinct accent..somewhat like a Minnesota accent from the film “Fargo”.
I asked the man where he was from, since he had a distinct accent for a west Texas boy.
He paused, and stated that he was Mexican.
He parentage was German and that his parents immigrated to Mexico years ago. They are Mennonites and moved to Texas illegally.
The young man continued that his parents lived here for a while and then moved back to Mexico. He and his brother pursued the green card route and citizenship status and are now living in a Mennonite community about 60 miles from here.
Hard workers and very respectful young men.
Interesting incongruity concerning what the typical south of the border/Mexican/Hispanic looks like. Ya just never can tell what those Mexicans will do for a cover!
Adios…………………
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 18, 2010
at 3:31 PM
Dear No One’s Puppet,
For two weeks I have no posted. Read but not posted.
I have not posted since my wife was attacked for her poor judgement in being married to me for over 32 years and 10 years of dating.
So whoever you believe is writing under a pseudonym or alias other than what you have
presumed, it is not I.
At no time did I use foul language and tried to
sit on the porch without stepping on too many feet.
So please get over it and deal with whatever poor soul has dumped on your parade or crapped in your sandbox.
Fondly,
Craig
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By: Gregorio/Craig on May 18, 2010
at 3:14 PM
http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html
As far away as Atlanta is from the border..They know the dangers posed from illegal immigration.
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By: Stephan on May 18, 2010
at 12:58 PM
Well, if the Tea Party people are remotely like Stacey Anne, I know all I need to know about them.
Teddy Roosevelt was progressive in many areas. In others, he was a man of his time. Why make the assumption that if we agree with someone on one thing (or several things) that we have to agree with them on everything?
“We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language..” Oh, I don’t think so. I’m a polyglot myself, and I’d like to learn more languages if I only had the time. So I speak Irish – does that mean I’ve stopped speaking English? And, riding the bus lately, I’m very jazzed to find how much high school Spanish I’ve retained (some of my fellow riders would be horrified, but that’s a different story). I should definitely brush up on that as well. And I’m still an American. If you don’t want to be multilingual, don’t be. Just don’t even try to hold the rest of us back. We want to, and we don’t care if you’re jealous.
“Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all.” All the national societies of people of fill-in-the-blank extraction – they’re UnAmerican? Quick, somebody tell the Swedish Institute down the street. And my local Greek Orthodox Church will have to stop holding their annual festival/fundraiser. The advances in DNA technology has a lot of people checking out their ancestry – go look at the National Genographic project on the Nat’l Geographic website. DH & I both had ours run and enjoyed it greatly. My Irish folk trio just did a gig at a Serbian Orthodox church and a great time was had by all. Maybe we should all be deported. But to where? We’re all citizens and most of us were born here.
The only part of the statement that has any validity at all, IMHO, was the part about loyalty. I grew up among 1st generation German immigrants who were hyperloyal. Many of the old ladies on the bus refused to speak German at all and used English with a German construction (verb last). Danke, Bitte & gesundheit were English, as far as we knew, and we were called in to dinner with “Kommen Sie auf”. Studies show the 1st and 2nd generation immigrants are the most committed to considering themselves “Americans” and it takes the 3rd generation to research the family history and cultural traditions. DH’s grandfathers fluently spoke Irish and Polish, respectively – but never in the home. Their children didn’t learn it and their grandchildren feel the loss. This is not an appropriate use of loyalty.
I suspect the problem is in the definition of “an
American, and nothing but an American…”. Too many people define that as being “exactly like me”. “Exactly” as in language, religion, class and, oh, yes, national origin and skin tone.
And frankly, if the jingoist crazies got enough control of the country to force me to choose between loyalty to my government and loyalty to humanity, I think I’d stick with humanity. And the Constitution of the United States.
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By: judith on May 18, 2010
at 12:20 PM
The last two comments are a perfect example of why this site should be moderated
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By: jsri on May 18, 2010
at 11:45 AM
You are a horrible woman. God will punish you for being so ugly. You are just plain filth. You don’t know anything about the Tea Party persons.
They ain’t evil like you!
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By: Stacey Anne on May 18, 2010
at 11:40 AM
Helen is a man and Margaret is his bitch.
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By: Kramer on May 18, 2010
at 10:31 AM
Saguaro on May 14th: You requested that people do not tar all of Arizona based on the new law; that in fact, there are liberal minded folks like yourself who do not agree with it. And then you turned right around and tarred the entire Midwest with your snarly comment about how it didn’t used to be this way until the Midwesterners moved in. I’m from the Midwest, am white, and am liberal. However, I have absolutely no desire to move to Arizona, especially with people like you roaming around in it.
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By: Creamed on May 18, 2010
at 10:28 AM
Helen Philpot for President!
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By: Marcey on May 18, 2010
at 10:02 AM
Oh Carlos, Carol, Gregorio, and Craig, did I miss anyone, if only we could integrate your personalities, actually we’d still have fingernails on a blackboard. You poor old cuss, you want attention, but really, why here?
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By: No One's Puppet on May 18, 2010
at 9:35 AM
Love your view and common sense!
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By: Kat on May 18, 2010
at 9:11 AM
Great book!
Becoming Teddy Roosevelt: How a Maine Guide Inspired America’s 26th President
Author: Andrew Vietze
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By: Frank on May 18, 2010
at 8:31 AM
Jean thanks for pointing out that Roosevelt was a true imperialist. That’s often a point glossed over in HS history in favor of the Rough Rider mythos. We have a lot to be thankful for for Teddy R, especially our national parks system which is truly one of the best in the world – thanks in no small part to TR. But he also believed in the class system, that power rightly belonged in the hands of the educated wealthy elite (upper 1% of US), and that we owed it to our “little brown brothers” to take care of them, including subjugating them for our Manifest Destiny. TR is, like most Americans, a complicated mix of good and bad, patriot and hatriot.
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By: Greytdog on May 18, 2010
at 8:09 AM
Jim…relax…the woman is damn funny. Period.
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By: Frank on May 18, 2010
at 5:47 AM
I am not a Tea Partier, but I know several. I really do love your blog and good ol’ common sense, but I am really concerned about how so many people – now including you, Helen – who want respect for themselves are not willing to give it to the Tea Partiers, who I have found to mostly be ordinary folks like me who just can’t pay any more taxes.
Yes, some of them mis-spell their signs, but of course the self-described very liberal media searches for that, ignoring the majority of signs which are spelled just fine. I have found most Tea Party members to be educated, thoughtful and a lot more politically knowledgeable than the average American, and research by the NY Times – hardly a liberal rag – bears that out.
It is always a mistake to denigrate others and dismiss their concerns. I have done it myself and always have been sorry. Remember, in 1930 nobody took the Nazis seriously.
I want to hear what these people have to say.
Respectfully,
Jim
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By: Jim on May 18, 2010
at 5:38 AM
Directed here from DailyKos….You two are a hoot and a half!!!
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By: Michael G. on May 18, 2010
at 5:13 AM
Hi Congenial Gang and Carlos on May 17, 2010
at 10:29 PM,
I wasn’t going to bother to respond to your comments until you brought up Teddy Roosevelt. I would like to recommend an excellent book, “The Imperial Cruise”, By James Bradley. The author is the son of one of the men who raised the American flag on Iwo Jima during WWII.
There are a great many direct quotes in the book from Teddy Roosevelt’s speeches, books, writings and letters. Teddy was a firm believer in “American’s Manifest Destiny” to follow the sun.
After you read it, please come back and see if you can convince anyone here on M&H’s porch that ultimately, we will still find a huge stash of WMD’s in Iraq. No doubt you fervently believe that too.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 18, 2010
at 1:07 AM
Helen- thank you for another excellent post !
Very much appreciated lecasa’s remarks – a voice I’ve not heard here before…
And Carlos- Teddy Roosevelt was a sensible man about some things and not about others…
And that particular quote isn’t very sensible .
Human beings always have multiple allegiances, to their communities, to their families, to their churches – all of which flow from their connections to their past, their ethnicity, their language…
Carol- if you poke your head back in here, why don’t you get after your LAZY politicos and get them EARNING their keep in relation to developing better relations with Mexico. It is a sin that we have been such crappy neighbors for so long to a next door neighbor. A lot of the trouble there is on our collective heads m’dear.
We don’t have all this trouble with so-called illegal Canadians …
And holy Mary… I hope you are one of those folks who puff up their resume and all you have to do with health care is filing insurance forms because you don’t belong caring for the sick and elderly…
Go do the election thingy now. Take days , unpaid, off work like I did for years . Donate your few bucks for public service to a local charity…
Be part of your community…
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By: alaskapi on May 18, 2010
at 12:19 AM
Carlos, a lovely sentiment, and very idealistic, but very unrealistic. America is, was and will always be a melting pot, one culture made up of many other cultures.
So, what exactly are you suggesting with this quote? That the Italians get to march in the streets every Columbus Day, the Germans get to celebrate Oktoberfest (I knew a German American when I was in school who was very proud of his German heritage. Even took a German language Bible with him to church), I also had a roommate in college whose mother was from Germany, and she was fluent in German and damn proud about it, the Irish get to celebrate St. Patrick’s Day, but you begrudge me the Cinco de Mayo? Bullshit. My enjoying a good Cinco de Mayo parade doesn’t make me any less American than you or anyone else. No ethnic group should be forced to forsake their cultural heritage for the sake of being an American, and those from European countries don’t have to, and no one seems to mind.
And loyalty cuts both ways. I am loyal to my country, and to the American people, but I expect this country’s and this country’s people’s loyalty to me in return. It’s a lovely theory, but doesn’t always work out that way in practice.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 17, 2010
at 11:18 PM
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By: Carlos on May 17, 2010
at 10:34 PM
‘In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here
in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall
be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to
discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or
origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an
American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance
here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an
American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We
Have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And
we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American
people.’
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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By: Carlos on May 17, 2010
at 10:29 PM
Hey guys if your state is having elections tomorrow please don’t forget to VOTE!
There are a couple of special elections going on, one of which is especially tight and we can’t afford to lose a single seat.
If you live in Pennsylvania 12th district please support Critz (D).
As I said he is in a very tight race and every single vote will count he has been down in the polls all along but seems to be getting up sped lets bring him over the line!. Let’s not let alllllll our hard work slip away.
VOTE CRITZ (D) … Pennsylvania 12th
Thanks!
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By: lori on May 17, 2010
at 8:00 PM
Illegal immigrants would like to be legal. They want to pay their taxes. Simple solution but nothing is ever simple. make them legal, have a work visa program with Mexico. Mexico’s entire economy is based on the money illegal and legal Mexicans send home. An open work program between the borders is the only financial answer.
It is very expensive to be an illegal. They pay money to get here illegally and often leave their families behind. In order to return once a year they must pay money again to sneak across the border with no assurance that they can afford to return.
Who is willing to fill jobs in this country such as road maintenance, dish washers, labor in the fields, landscaping, home cleaning and child care just to mention a few of the jobs non hispanic legal American citizens do not want to perform.
The Mexican citizen is willing to work at any job in order to provide for their family both here and in Mexico. He is willing to risk his life in order to work. Can you say that about others in this country?
If they could work legally they would not be a financial burden on the federal or state government and would contribute to the economy.
Take a drive one morning by a grocery store parking lot and count the number of workers waiting to be picked for a job. Count the races that are waiting. 90% or more will be Mexicans.
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By: Raji on May 17, 2010
at 6:27 PM
This is the best reading I’ve done in awhile!
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By: Ruthann on May 17, 2010
at 2:30 PM
Greawt post from M& H as usual and of course inputs from others as well…that goes for such as Carol and ,Carlos , Bill and …was it Virginia ? Need to “hear” from them to be reminded for it truly is mind boggling on so many levels if one BUT goes by regular media coverage that gives such as “official” T-baggers great berth as if but presentig factuals/actuals in regard to various issues when simple fact checking proves elsewise but RARELY if EVER “called out” by so much of the MSM who are more interested in promoting controversy in order to garner audience attention/etc.
Wold like to see (FOR REAL) just how “COST FACTORs” get accounted …say the costs of a tomato, grown and harvested and ging profitibility to some entity and HOW that is done …Delve into all that a bit and is obvious, sure ain’t UNIONS nor the cost of the ILLGAL EMPLOYED in the effort to get that tomato to the American table at a cost that is considered “affordabl;e” yet profitible enough to allow that there are those willing to be in the business of getting a tomato TO the table for consumption. MARKET to consumer…, let the market place rule and etc is great babble and even greater spin and thensome. Free enterprise is for but those in position to game the system in their own favor and if it does not favor them to make profits/etc, they depart that market posthaste to seek a profitible gig.
Other point indeed, ANY here on these USA “shores/terratory/etc…LOL…ALL IMIGRANTS and btw, some were SENT here cuz “mother” country did NOT want them , it was a way to get rid of “them”, due to religious or political or etc preferences preferred in the original homeland . Many are quite fearful that the very LONG run of “privilidged” is about to wrap and perhaps are most fearful of “retirbution…that ol’ do unto others as would have done to self might be striking fear in some for likely they DO KNOW all have not quite done any too right by that and fearing “payback perhaps, perhaps fearful of payback with a vengence. SUch will cling to their OWN form of victimhood forevermore and it will be engenered with spitefilled hate to attempt to compensate /etc. PITIFUL to say the very least.
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By: Buttons44 on May 17, 2010
at 1:58 PM
I would like to second lecasa’s eloquently stated position. I can especially identify with the second to last paragraph. I would LOVE to move out of AZ but the job situation in combination with my currently upside down real estate makes that impossible. And the boycotts make it likely that this situation will only grow worse for those of us trapped in this mess.
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By: Scout on May 17, 2010
at 1:17 PM
It’s always great to see a new post here, because the M&H porch-sitters are so loyal, diverse…and VOCAL.
Helen, I’m just wondering, since you’re on the site in Texas, what’s the deal with the Board(s) of Educations wanting to change (“white”wash?) the history textbooks? And I think I’ve heard before that what goes into a lot of Texas textbooks influences what goes into textbooks nationwide!
While we’re on the subject of immigration, let’s talk about what we should remember about the contributions – positive and negative – about the actions of the immigrants who got here first.
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By: bawlmer sue on May 17, 2010
at 1:15 PM
As a resident of Arizona, I would like to let everyone know that not all Arizonans are gun toting racists and our current governor was never voted into office. When Janet Napolitano left for greener pastures, we were stuck with Jan Brewer who signed the immigration bill into law. Jan Brewer does not even have a college degree and furthermore, we were never allowed to vote on this issue.
Many of us in Arizona are intelligent, educated professionals (although we’ve definitely got our share of idiots!) who are being lumped in with the Republican morons and will have to suffer through this until we can vote for an intelligent governor. I know everyone wants to boycott Arizona to teach all of us racists a lesson but lets face it, the only ones who will probably understand that lesson are the people who have been against this law since the beginning. The generalities being posted about Arizonans amounts to the same discrimination that immigrants ihere are suffering.
So while many of us strongly disagree with the new law, the national economy doesn’t allow for us to sell our homes, quit our jobs and move to another state.
Many of you showing your disgust of Arizonans should be careful not to be the bigots you accuse us of being.
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By: lecasa on May 17, 2010
at 1:05 PM
Oh yeah… and then there’s this:
May 03, 2010|By Nicholas Riccardi, Los Angeles Times
Reporting from Phoenix —
By many measures, Arizona has become safer since illegal immigrants began pouring into the state in the 1990s.
Crime has dropped all across the country since then, but the decrease has been as fast or faster in Arizona. The rate of property crimes in the state, for example, has plummeted 43% since 1995, compared with 30% nationwide.
But of course, the douchebag quotient will not acknowledge facts or statistics.
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By: Scout on May 17, 2010
at 12:05 PM
Carlos, there ain’t nothin fair about FAIR. There is a flipside to the costs created by illegal immigrants and thats the money they spend here in this country with over the counter stuff like rent, utilities, clothing, groceries and sales taxes for example. If you really want to see what happens when entire communities that have been built around illegal immigrants when they pull out overnight due to crackdowns of any sort, just check out some ghost towns in the southeast. Then look at the holes in the state budget which never existed before while those communities were in existence.
And how ’bout this? My daddy was an illegal immigrant. Totally Anglo-Saxon, was better educated than what he found among his peers in this country. He came in the same time as the government announced that you had to have all sorts of documentation. All he had was his high school diploma, his oversized IQ and his pro-am atheleticism. He eventually did become a citizen and despite the way he was treated when he first arrived by some crazy assed xemonphobes who never heard of Canada, he loved this country with a passion. Inasmuch as he worked in factories to make planes and tanks during WWII, this country really couldn’t have done without him.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 17, 2010
at 12:01 PM
I’ll be taking part in the May 29 Protest here in Phoenix. If you’re anywhere nearby,please consider joining this march to uphold civil rights in AZ.
http://altoarizona.com/events.html#stopthehate
The trolls who have dropped by disgust me. Especially the one who keeps coming back using different names to spew the same old tired crap.
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By: Scout on May 17, 2010
at 11:57 AM
Helen, I think you might be the smartest woman I know. Please write more.
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By: Anonymous on May 17, 2010
at 11:05 AM
😀 Somewhere in Arizona…
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By: Poolman on May 17, 2010
at 11:04 AM
Take a look at this over the next couple hours:
http://www.moveon.org/kstshowdown/?id=20457-17707686-uCYdmQx&t=3
It’s a live march on K Street to bust up the banks. Of course, no networks seem to be covering it.
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By: avotresante on May 17, 2010
at 10:48 AM
I really would like to subscribe to these!! LOVE you so much!!!
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By: Melodi Rayl on May 17, 2010
at 10:25 AM
Our country was made by immigrants. Going crazy and targeting brown skinned individuals is not the way to go.
President Bush proposed and almost passed a workable immigration policy. It was stopped cold by the same people who are giving President Obama hell for not fixing immigration – today. Those who are swearing there needs to be a change for Arizona, would also be the first one to object to a workable immigration policy. (We need a worker provision to allow our crops to be picked – unless, you and your friends are willing to do the job.)
Remember: Illegals do pay taxes such as Social Security but they will never benefit from it. Our country needs a guest worker program to do some terribly mundane and physically difficult jobs like picking crops.
We might even consider legalizing marijuana and tax it. The cartels love our current drug policies.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 17, 2010
at 10:02 AM
So, because the cost to the federal government for education, medical care, and law enforcement/incarceration for ILLEGAL aliens is less than the cost of obesity…..it is okay?
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By: Carlos on May 17, 2010
at 9:12 AM
Heyyyyy, Bill! Doncha read the papers? It was Halliburton that was 1/3 of the Trinity up on Capitol Hill pointing a finger at BP and Transocean for responsibility on the oil disaster in the Gulf while BP and Transoean pointed right back at them and each other. Face it! Halliburton has gotton their mangy fingers into the Body Politic in ways you have never dreamed of and they started a long time ago when you weren’t lookin’! A long time ago when Cheney was runnin’ their shebang. And when he was vice president he was simply their point man on the Hill. Got that?
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 17, 2010
at 7:43 AM
YAY!!!!!
Margaret & Helen are back!!!!!
Love you both….really…I mean it!!!!
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By: Cheryl P. on May 17, 2010
at 5:39 AM
Oh my, but you are the bee’s knees!
I love the way you write and what you have to say!
You go on girl!
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By: Mrs. Taylor-Bradshaw on May 17, 2010
at 5:38 AM
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), and its off-shoot, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) are conservative organizations that lobby for more restrictive immigration laws. A circulating email makes the claim that illegal immigrants cost the US $338.3 billion annually, and attributes the information to FAIR and CIS. CIS itself has responded that it “never said anything of the like and is not going to comment on a chain e-mail that is in no way scientific.”
Attempts to determine the cost of illegal immigrants have generally concluded that the cost is a small fraction of that. The Congressional Budget Office attempted to determine the cost, and concluded that although it is difficult to know the exact cost, it is probably quite moderate.
For a point-by-point analysis of the claims by FactCheck.org, see http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/.
To put the cost into perspective, the CDC and the Surgeon General have determined that obesity costs US taxpayers approximately $147 billion per year, and that number is growing at a rapid pace. Maybe we should be focusing our energies on solving that problem. Of course it won’t be as much fun — no cowboy gun-play involved.
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By: Rae on May 17, 2010
at 5:25 AM
According to FAIR:
500,000 illegal aliens in Arizona cost the state $1.3 billion annually
In California, 3 million illegals cost the state $9 billion annually.
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By: Carlos on May 16, 2010
at 9:52 PM
That is NET cost.
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By: Carlos on May 16, 2010
at 9:40 PM
According to Factcheck.org….annual cost to the Federal government for illegal aliens is approx $10.4 billion
This does not include costs to the individual states.
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By: Carlos on May 16, 2010
at 9:39 PM
Rae, no interest in trying to “prove” anything. I just believe that our tax dollars should go to LEGAL AMERICANS, and NOT to criminals who are here ILLEGALLY, be they ANY color. The “cheap labor” can revert back to teens & students, like it has always been in the US, before the huge illegal alien invasion.
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By: ksstorm on May 16, 2010
at 9:26 PM
Helen, amazing how you find words for what leaves me speechless.
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By: A Nana Moose on May 16, 2010
at 9:16 PM
ksstorm,
Please tell us how many billions you are talking about that are going to support illegals, and let us know your source. And then you should also tell us how much the illegals contribute to the economy through cheap labor. Let’s be fair, and let’s be truthful. I think you’ll be surprised once you research this.
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By: Rae on May 16, 2010
at 9:10 PM
Go Helen!!!!!!!
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By: Frank Armstrong on May 16, 2010
at 9:08 PM
I totally agree w/ everything you said, EXCEPT the stuff about illegal immigrants & Mexicans! I am NOT prejudiced, but I am very upset about how many billions of our tax dollars are going to support people who are here illegally, and taking jobs from our citizens. I am sure I am far from alone in this!
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By: ksstorm on May 16, 2010
at 9:02 PM
Hi Congenial Gang and subWOW on May 16, 2010
at 2:35 PM,
subWOW, the McIntosh piece you put up is one of the most powerful I think I have read in a long, long time. And written 22 years ago! I think it should be required reading for everyone no matter what race, culture or ethnicity. Thank you so very much for posting it.
I recognized every one of her items, didn’t you? But mostly from the ‘privileged’ side of the fence. These attitudes are so deeply ingrained they are almost embeded in in our DNA.
Although my paternal great-grandmother was Sioux Indian, (of which I am extremely proud!)the rest of my heritage is lilly white. Until my hair turned snow white, with my dark brunette hair and eyes, I could have been and occasionally was mistaken for almost any nationality except Islandic. For two summers when I was in college I worked as a waitress in a thoroughly authentic Italian restaurant. OK, I could be Italian if it would boost my tips!
One time not long after I married my fair, blue eyed husband in 1953, we lived in Southern California and crossed the border into Tijuana, Mexico for the day. There were no strict border restrictions at that time. Coming back into the U.S. the other people in our group of four couples sailed right through the crossing. I was sort of lagging behind looking at the tourist wares along the way. I happened to be wearing a brightly flowered red and white sun dress.
The guard stopped me and asked if I were an American citizen. I stammered, yes, offering to show him my driver’s license. He said, “Does it show you are an American citizen?” I was starting to panic when my husband, (a male) stepped back across the border and told the guard I was his wife. He then waved me on without another word. I was really, really scared.
Some of our friends who watched the whole scene from the U. S. side thought it was hilariously funny. They said the guard was just teasing me and testing me to see how I talked. That made it even worse! I was not amused at all since the ‘joke’ was on me.
That was only one small incident over 50 years ago. I can only imagine how it must feel to go through life having to justify what you look like and how you speak by accident of your birth.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 16, 2010
at 8:17 PM
Helen, you are an absolute scream.
We haven’t heard from Margaret lately.
Hope she is well.
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By: Doris Hausblocher on May 16, 2010
at 5:51 PM
The Arizona immigration mess: Greg Palast feels it is just a means to slow down or stop the latino vote in AZ.
http://www.gregpalast.com/behind-the-arizona-immigration-lawgop-game-to-swipe-the-november-election/#more-3592
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By: JuneauJoe on May 16, 2010
at 5:45 PM
Helen, I love your posts. You say everything I’m thinking but can’t manage to articulate.
Keep writing and I’ll keep reading!
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By: Nivea on May 16, 2010
at 5:44 PM
Excellent post Helen! It’s about time we start standing up to the Gand Old party baggers. If we continue to “tolerate” their behaviors, slowly it will be considered” main stream…. hell we don’t have to look any further than their VP selection…. VP!!!!!!! (I still can’t believe that .. but that’s been done to death)……. We need to call em out, and call em out LOUDLY, everytime these idiots take center stage. Starting in AZ and not stopping until we have highlighted everyone of these paranoid nut jobs. AND DON’T FORGET TO VOTE!!!!!!! Thank you for leading the parade.
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By: lori on May 16, 2010
at 5:30 PM
In case you missed the Atlantis shuttle launch, there are two more launches to go. Wow. Hard to believe the shuttle era is ending. Those workhorses have earned their “hay” so to speak, haven’t they? Atlantis rocketed into space the other day, and I swear ppl poured out of their homes around me, traffic was slowing (some pulled over and stopped) – In a way it was really nice to know that despite our everyday scrabblings, there are those out there who still dream of going into space, and there are those who cheer them on and join them in their gigantic leap of faith off this planet.
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By: Greytdog on May 16, 2010
at 5:16 PM
Happy Sunday everyone! Things are starting to heat up out here in the southwest. It’s getting close to triple digits and complete political silliness. I don’t know how many more times we can shoot ourselves in the foot and remain standing.
Oh, well. Maybe we are meant to see things from a much “closer to the ground” perspective. If we keep up this pace we’ll emulate the desert we inhabit. Here is a Native perspective of the AZ law. We’ve come a long way, baby. And it ain’t been too pretty, no matter how we teach it or preach it.
May the Almighty guide your path and light up your spirit, I pray. 😎
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By: Poolman on May 16, 2010
at 5:02 PM
subWOW, thank you. That was an excellent paper. It made me start thinking about what white privilege means for me, in my life, in this time. The items she lists could be used to start a productive discussion about race, class, and sex.
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By: Rae on May 16, 2010
at 4:39 PM
Sorry. This is the link to the McIntosh essay “White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack”
Click to access UnpackingTheKnapsack.pdf
And it’s from 22 years ago. Still relevant. Imagine that.
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By: subWOW on May 16, 2010
at 2:35 PM
Carol, you said “Do you know that most hispanics consider themselves “Caucasian”. Because they are descendant from Spain…a European country. How can I be racist against my own race?” And that’s exactly the issue with the AZ law. How is anyone going to decide who is suspicious of being an illegal alien and is able to say with 100% honesty that they don’t judge by the colors of people’s skins? Racism, or rather, Colorism, exists in Latin American countries. Look at the elite class in Mexico, people with fair skins and Anglo features are the majorities. If you have never had to worry about being mistaken for an illegal alien (even if you were an immigrant yourself), if you can easily “PASS”, your experiences (and those of your ancestors) are vastly different from people of color. I wish people would go back and read this article from 10 years ago by Peggy McIntosh: “Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack” (of white privilege) before they trot out the argument that “But my father -or whoever in their family- is an immigrant”.
p.s. “Passing” for many light-skinned African Americans is a wrought, and oftentimes painful issue. I didn’t mean to use the word in this sense above.
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By: subWOW on May 16, 2010
at 2:33 PM
WOW – President Obama should hire you as his speech writer. You nailed it!!!!
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By: Scudbud on May 16, 2010
at 1:55 PM
Wow, this is amazing.
Why aren’t they using this to clean up the oil spill right now?
http://www.wimp.com/solutionoil/
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By: Elizabeth2 on May 16, 2010
at 1:33 PM
Thanks Chickenpig, for telling it like it is and beautifully.
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By: Easier on May 16, 2010
at 1:03 PM
Jennifer is kidding, I am serious. please adopt me. I am here in this country by myself (none of my families are here, except the ones that I am married into, and of course, the 2 little ppl that I produced in the US). It is so good to read your take-no-prisoner, calling-it-like-it-is assessment of GOP. They are like 3 year olds throwing a tantrum: once they start saying NO, they can’t stop. And you know what you do when your child is lying on the floor, kicking their feet in the air? You do not argue with them, hoping reasons will be recognized by their crazed brains. No. You pick them up and haul their ass out of the store.
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By: subWOW on May 16, 2010
at 12:18 PM
Will you please, please adopt me? You think I’m kidding, I’m dead serious, lol! So happy my Facebook friend turned me on to you smart, hip women. Love this blog so much!!!
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By: Jennifer on May 16, 2010
at 11:41 AM
Freakin liberals….you are so impractical
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By: Carlos on May 16, 2010
at 11:29 AM
Carol, we are all descended from illegal immigrants. Just because there weren’t any laws to break when my ancestors came here, doesn’t mean that they were legal.
We started this country with war. We built it on the backs of slaves. We killed, stole from, and lied to every Native American we came in contact with. After all that, we think that we have the right to say we are better than the people in every other country, and that only we can say who deserves to be here? So much for those tired, huddles masses yearning to breathe free. Maybe we should just tear that Statue of Liberty down since she’s sending out the wrong message.
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By: Chickenpig on May 16, 2010
at 11:11 AM
Good grief. People are being mean to me? I’m going to leave and I won’t come back, and then you’ll be sorry? What is this, middle school?
Skyewriter, loved your PS. Damned unions — they’re really screwing up the weather.
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By: Anonymous on May 16, 2010
at 10:19 AM
Short PS:
I neglected to mention the *union-caused* frost in Florida that drove up the cost of tomatoes in the US in March…
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By: skyewriter on May 16, 2010
at 9:42 AM
Of course, Carol, you never said *all* people on government assistance are deadbeats. That’s why effective qualifiers in your argument will make folks see your “non-racist”, “non-classist” attitude that poverty is not a moral condition, it is an economic one. (Because that’s your hedge now, right?)
It is a systemic condition, not a motivational one. Any minor study of sociology or anthropology or even history would teach you that. For some good reading on the systemic nature of poverty in our country, I recommend you start with Jean Anyon’s essay “Social Class and the Hidden Curriculum of Work” in the _Journal of Education_.
Carol May 15, 2010
at 9:44 AM:
“get alot [sic] of those lazy asses off government support and make them do those jobs.”
No, you aren’t calling anyone deadbeats…
At least *own* your own bile, Carol.
This gem from Carol May 15, 2010
at 9:41 AM
“You want cheaper tomatoes??? Reign in the unions….the true bane of this nation!”
Do you know how the agricultural system in our country works? Subsidies? Food production? Consider actually researching, and learning about how crops are grown, harvested, and turned into food in our country before blaming *unions* for the cost of a tomato. (You are comparing apples and oranges, or peppers and arugula, but you get the gist, I hope.)
And by research, I mean do more than listen to talking heads on AM radio or your favorite Fox program (from whom it seems all of your *talking* points originate). Read something that isn’t media based and you will find that you are being misled in many ways.
Thanks for the pie, all.
Nice to see some familiar names and new ones here, too.
Cheers,
Skye
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By: skyewriter on May 16, 2010
at 9:37 AM
Carol, I don’t know the hispanics you know, but no one in my family approves of this law. There are all kinds of Mexican Americans, some from mixed marriages with Anglos, some decended from Maximillian’s family, with fair skin and blue eyes. But most of us, while we understand we are technically Caucasian, do NOT consider ourselves “White.” How could I when I grew up surrounded by white kids beating me up every day and calling me “spick, beaner, wetback”? We accept we are a Mestizo race, part Spanish and part Native Northern or Central American.
Take into consideration as well the Texas Board of Education cutting out hispanics from the text books right and left.
I had to renew my passport a couple of years ago for a cruise I took, nd I requested a new certified birth certificate, and they sent me one tha tlooks exactly like Obama’s, so I guess mine wouldn’t be good enough, either. I know what it is to be pulled over by the cops for no good reason, or for a small infraction and have the cop ‘not like the looks” of my license or registration, trying to make it something more. I am simply too terrified to go to AZ as long as this law is in place, and if you’ve lived my life you would be too, Carol. I have never gotten the chance to see the Grand Canyon and was planning to in the next year or two. Now I guess I never will.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 16, 2010
at 9:06 AM
Excellent point, cjc, what’s happening to the curriculum in AZ AND in Texas is just proof that this goes beyond just wanting to secure the borders.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 16, 2010
at 8:59 AM
Methinks Helen & Lewis Black would get along famously!
If you haven’t seen Lewis Black’s political comedy, it is must-see…..I’d love to see him rant about Limbaugh!
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By: Sherr! Δ on May 16, 2010
at 8:16 AM
It truly amazes me how you take a few of my words and turn them into racism. I have never been against immigration. My family were immigrants…..we are ALL descendent from immigrants unless we are Native American. The point is……these people come here ILLEGALLY. The majority population in my state is hispanic and the majority population….70% FAVOR our new law. It really isn’t drastically different from the previous law, just reinforces it and perhaps brings light to the situation on our borders. Light that apparently needs to be shone for our government to do anything to correct it. Throughout our country nearly 60% approve of the law. Like it or not….you are in the minority on this one.
Do you know that most hispanics consider themselves “Caucasian”. Because they are descendant from Spain…a European country. How can I be racist against my own race?
I never once said that the lazy people receiving government handouts when they are able-bodied and unwilling to work were only of one race…..they come from every race and color. How you can draw the conclusions you do from my posts are quite incredible.
I will leave you and not return…much to your satisfaction. It is too bad that opposing views are not tolerated more. I actually enjoy reading what some of you have to say….and find that we are not always that far apart. Then there are others who simply want to call me names.
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By: Carol on May 16, 2010
at 8:03 AM
I ran across this today and the lady who wrote it makes more sense than I can about this issue of immigration.
http://www.tinadupuy.com/column/a-love-letter-to-arizona-your-appointed-governor-is-a-coward/
The fact is that Latino people will be the majority in this country within 20 years. Anybody who has a problem with that, had better be fixin’ to move!
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By: Gramiam on May 16, 2010
at 7:23 AM
litebug, “stay out of my blog” sounds a lot like “stay out of my country.” “They’re a bunch of rude, crass, tasteless buttinskis” sounds a lot like “they’re a bunch of dirty deadbeats.” “The creeps should crawl back into their dark caves” sounds a lot like “they should all go back to the lousy places they came from.”
Hate speech is hate speech, regardless of where it’s aimed. You seem to be a knowledgeable person. I would much rather hear you explain why the anti-immigration crowd is wrong. And I would hope that people from “the other side” (if only the world were that simple) might stop by and pause to consider what you say.
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By: Rae on May 16, 2010
at 5:12 AM
It’s too bad these Reich-wing trolls, such as Carol, have to continually butt into the progressive blogs to spread their stinky stable sweepings. But such is their obnoxious natures. If only they’d mind their own business we’d all be a lot happier.
I’ve never posted on a right-wing site and I would bet that few liberals do that sort of thing. I wouldn’t waste my time. But these knuckle-dragging right-wing trolls are always pushing their religion and regressive politics in people’s faces (and in any other orifice they can find). They are rude, crass, tasteless buttinskis who should mind their own business and and quit polluting the more progressive web sites with their garbage. Obviously they have way too much time on their hands. There are plenty of right wing sites where they’d find a welcome audience for their well-worn crap and incessant recitation of proven lies, talking points, and mis-information, gleaned from Faux News.
In scanning all the many the comments, it was gratifying to see there were only two creeps out there. The rest of us love Margaret and Helen. The creeps should crawl back into their dark caves. We don’t want them to play in any of our reindeer games. Aren’t they always the type of unpleasant people one really doesn’t want to know or to have anything to do with? In my experience that has always been the case.
Just today I had some stranger get into my face about the situation in AZ. I was with my husband, seated at a table, in a restaurant. I was not even aware of this person behind me, when, out of a clear blue sky, he starts putting forth this anti-immigrant rant. I walked away. The rudeness of these people is just breath-taking. It infuriates me when someone thinks that just because I am white I will automatically agree with them.
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By: litebug on May 16, 2010
at 3:44 AM
Carol, and Virginia, the biggest welfare receipients are corporations, with all the tax loopholes you could ever imagine, the farmers who are subsidized to no end and are paid not to plant, and yes, some tax free organizations fronting for their owners who are taking advantage of the system. I look at tax returns all the time from people from all walks of life and believe me, the ripoff is tremendous. The middle class bears the brunt of the taxation in this country. As for the people who receive welfare, they come in all colors I am afraid. I do agree the way the system is set up perpetuates a certain dependence. I wish the system would really make people perform some work in exchange for the assistance. I believe we would all benefit. Therefore, when I get down on my luck and need it, I would not feel I am such a burden on society and feel ashamed I have to take a handout, and would gladly perform work for the help. Sometimes, I do understand if one is not able-bodied, the assistance is needed and has to be received without the ability to provide any counterpart. Society understands this. That is why we all contribute so that we may help the truly needy.
Unfortunately the system has not been set up with much common sense and many people take advantage; and they come in all colors, Carol and Virginia.
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By: Easier on May 16, 2010
at 3:19 AM
My friend Joann introduced your blog to me. Love it. Keep it coming!
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By: Kathy on May 15, 2010
at 11:59 PM
Carol, we don’t judge you because you disagree, we judge you because you judge people about whom you know nothing, and your racism shines brighter than any work you may do in health care.
If you really care about the immigrant situation, then you should be lobbying your State government to enforce the laws already on the books that punish those who create the demand for immigrant labor. Instead of going after the poor bastard who’s only trying to make money to support his family, AZ should be going after the businesses that don’t check their immigration status and/or who pay them under the table. Why are you so silent on that?
And if AZ isn’t racist, tell me why you all are trying to do away with ethnic studies in your schools? Do you not understand that the story of the US is based on ethnic studies? Irish, Italian, German, Scotch, Sweden, African, and yes, even Mexican.
Sorry, Carol, but your law and all who support it are racist, no matter how much you deny it. And the response of many of the people and a growing number of cities and states in this nation shows that we recognize it.
And if you don’t like the heat you get when you promote your racist ideas on this forum, then you need to realize this is not a Republican/Tea Party/Conservative blog.
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By: cjc on May 15, 2010
at 11:37 PM
Teri – I just saw your post at the end of Helen and Margaret’s last blog, and it’s so brilliant, I wish you’d post it again here so more people can see it.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 15, 2010
at 9:26 PM
Hi Congenial Gang, gramiam on May 15, 2010 at 1:45PM, etc.; HoneyJorumples on May 15, 2010
at 10:24 AM, etc. and Elizabeth2 on May 14, 2010
at 11:42 AM,
Gramiam and HoneyJoerumples, you both stated your position clearly and without malice. I believe that most of us here at M&H see things the same way you do regardless of our life circumstances, else we wouldn’t have the audacity to even come here to Helen’s porch; uninvited, eat her pies and drink her tea.
Elizabeth2, I thought you and some others here might be interested to know a little bit more about Israel Kamakawlwo’ole’s home island. Ni’ihau is a really tiny island, the farthest west of the Hawaiian chain, (not counting many other uninhabited islands all the way out to Midway.)
Ni’ihau is privatly owned and known as the “Forbidden Island”. It is the only island where the Hawaiian language is spoken exclusively. It is said the small population there has retained its Hawaiian culture and lifestyle. Ni’ihau can be seen from the West Side of Kauai.
The extremely rare Ni’ihau sea shells are found only on that island and occasionally some wash up on one small sand bar on the north shore of Kauai at Anini Beach. The shells come in various shades of colors from white to pink to dark red wine colors. You can often see people on their hands and knees, all sunburned with aching backs, picking Ni’ihau shells out of the sand with tweezers. (I used an easier technique.) the shells are less than the size of a grain of rice.
Forever, people from Ni’ihau have collected those teeny shells and strung them into priceless necklaces. I do mean priceless! Into the thousands and thousands of $$$$$. Indeed, many of them are museum pieces.
On various trips, I scooped up sand into a couple of plastic bags and took them home to the shade and comfort of the deck. I sifted out the sand, larger shells, unidentified marine organisms and other debris to find only a handful of the Ni’ihau shells. There is a special tiny tool for poking holes in the shells so they can be strung. I was unsuccessful at that. They are so fragile, I broke most of them. Over a number of trips to Anini, I did manage to salvage enough to make pendants and earrings glued onto squares or circles as gifts for family and friends. Even my amateur attempts turned out to be what everyone thinks are quite unique and exquisite.
A little known story is that the first battle of the U.S. involvement in WWII was not the attack on Pearl Harbor, but took place on Ni’ihau. I am not clear on the accuracy of the details but this is how I have heard it many times. A Japanese one-man mini-submarine became disabled off Ni’ihau. The submariner was struggling to wade ashore when a group of Hawaiians went out to greet him and help him. Many of the Hawaiian men are really, really big! The huge leader of the group was helping him get ashore when the sailor pulled out a side arm and shot the Hawaiian. Bleeding but not mortally wounded, that pissed off the big man. He dragged the sailor ashore and beat him to death with his bare hands.
It’s not a good idea to abuse the initially warm hospitality of Hawaiians.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 15, 2010
at 8:40 PM
Heh, this is amusing.
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By: Vince on May 15, 2010
at 8:37 PM
Carol is both persistent and defensive, remind you of anyone? Just saying, maybe her wife is a Psychiatrist too.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 15, 2010
at 8:34 PM
I love this blog. I always am in complete agreement with Helen and Margaret. Only one little thing: Those poor helpless immigrants that are crossing the border in my neighborhood are carrying automatic weapons and using them. They scare the s..t out of me. I can see why Arizona pass that law. Stop and think about how it would feel to live on a border like ours in NM.
Other than that, you girls rule!:)
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By: Moni Smith on May 15, 2010
at 7:07 PM
Carol:
You really are a sad and sick person! You left your venom, now you may leave!
Margaret and Helen: Great Post!!!!
You two are wonderful.
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By: JuneauJoe on May 15, 2010
at 6:30 PM
Honeyjo…thank you for praying for me. We can all use prayers.
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 6:23 PM
Greytdog….your comments are simply ridiculous. Nothing further needs to be said about that.
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 6:18 PM
[…] Somewhere over the rainbow… Margaret, tell Howard that the difference between me and Rush Limbaugh is that I don’t lie in order to support my […] […]
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By: Top Posts — WordPress.com on May 15, 2010
at 6:17 PM
Rae, I guess sarcasm doesn’t come through the written text. I obviously disagree with Virginia…there is almost no one who wouldn’t, I hope.
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 6:14 PM
It is so comforting to know that so many of you find it within your bleeding hearts to “love” everyone EXCEPT those of us with a different viewpoint. I have been called a biatch, a racist, stupid, ignorant, a liar, a douchebag….nice talk from supposedly informed and tolerant people.
Gramiam, I absolutely NEVER said all people receiving government aid are deadbeats. I specifically referred to the able-bodied individuals who would rather collect a free check than do an honest day’s work….and our government makes it easy for them. People such as yourself are not receiving government aid in my book….you are getting only of portion of what you are owed. You paid in and now many, many others who did not are getting some of your earned benefit. I do not currently work the elections, but I do vote in every one. I am too busy working some 60 hours a week providing health care to our community. One day, when I no longer work full time, I do plan to work for the elections, as have my parents and grandparents.
It really hurts me that so many of you leap to conclusions about a person you know nothing of….only a few letters on this page allows you to make incredible insights into my heart…Shame on you who judge me simply because I disagree with most of you.
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 6:13 PM
Helen, your latest post is so spot on, it made me very sad. Thanks for the posts good people. It is comforting to have the Gramiams and HoneyJos in the parlor.
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By: Honolulu Sally on May 15, 2010
at 5:48 PM
Good to hear from you Helen!
I grew up in Texas and it grieves me to no end how much of our country (including many of my family and old friends) refuses to see things as they are and not how they wished it was.
I ask myself how much does reality have to conflict with the world in their head before they question the validity of their perception/belief.
I think Stephen Colbert nailed it on the head–they want Truthiness, because the truth comes with facts and critical thinking and *gasp* correcting one’s thoughts/methods when it is shown to be incorrect/ineffective.
Lastly, if the GOP was to go down the yellow brick road, which one do you think gets the ruby slippers and what’s really is the tin man’s oil can?
Keep swinging slugger!
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By: Suzi on May 15, 2010
at 4:09 PM
Also, when you go to vote, that smiling older lady manning the desk at the polling place could well be me! I spent four hours prior to the election taking a class and setting up the polling place, and arrived at 5:30 a.m. to make sure it opened on time for your convenience. I will be here until well after the polls close to make sure every vote is transported under seal to a central area for tallying. The pay works out to about $5 an hour. Not even minimum wage, but a nice deposit to my checking account. When was the last time you worked an election?
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By: Gramiam on May 15, 2010
at 1:53 PM
Carol, I, too, live in Arizona. I am Caucasian, retired and living on Social Security. I have been called a deadbeat by an overweight white guy with his beer belly hanging over his belt because I collect Social Security and Medicare. He didn’t like it much when I informed him that I was one of those who worked a lot of years to make sure his parents got their checks. Now it is my turn!
Like too many people, you assume, wrongly, that anybody getting Food Stamps or other government help are deadbeats. I live on $586 a month in a Section 8 subsidized apartment and get $67 a month in Food Stamps. Trust me, that was NOT my aim in life. That was just the way things turned out. I do make the most of it, though. I share what I have with others and preserve and use food that would otherwise be thrown out. I volunteer my time and encourage my elderly friends to do so as well. We may not be working members of society any more, but don’t ever say we aren’t productive.
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By: Gramiam on May 15, 2010
at 1:45 PM
No, Carol. Virginia’s response wasn’t “extreme;” nor was it funny. It was ignorant and hateful. One wonders how you find it so hilarious.
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By: Rae on May 15, 2010
at 1:06 PM
Good Grief. It took less than two days for right wing piglets to arrive on scene with their crude and vulgar but readily predictable comments. But I have a story to tell that offers another perspective on the illegal immigrant problem.
I have two ultraconservative acquaintances, one who lives on Cape Cod and the other in Texas. The last time we met several years ago, the one from Texas was bragging abut how he was getting a house built that was twice the size of his friend’s house on the Cape and at roughly half the cost. He also showed his sense of humor while relating stories about how all the workers on site would disappear over the wall whenever an immigration agent showed up in the area. Of course he had some rather coarse terms to describe the on site workers. The Cape resident had a story about a bar he frequented that was inexpensive because it was staffed by Irish immigrants who had long overstayed their H-2B visas. Although he was more accepting of the situation, he would indulge in the same level of ranting and raging as his friend when they started discussing the subject of illegal immigration. When I pointed out the ironies of their situations, they’d launch into a tirade about why they had to do it that way because of welfare cheats (we know who they are) and other miscreants we support with our taxes who are too lazy to do real work.
These are the same characters who keep sending me right wing bumper sticker slogans, pretending that they have said something intelligent. What is really sad is that both of them are college educated. Mostly I ignore them but occasionally they are so outrageous that I am forced to reply. However nothing seems to make a dent in their ignorance, sort of like Bill, Carol and Virginia et al.
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By: jsri on May 15, 2010
at 12:23 PM
yeah Carol and I’m sure some of your best friends are black. What a douchebag.
I’m so glad you go to church – probably the same church that prays for Obama’s death.
And passing off hatred as “passion” is a good one – I’m sure the SS were equally as passionate about sorting the Jews at Auschwitz.
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By: Greytdog on May 15, 2010
at 11:57 AM
Carol, shut the hell up. You’re a friggin’ tempest of every stupid Teadouche trope, lie, and dogwhistle.
Get your racist ass out of my country.
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By: The Panic Man on May 15, 2010
at 11:54 AM
Doesn’t it just blow your mind to know I’m praying for you, too, Carol? We both pray to the same God, but for what? On Nov. 4, 2008, He answered my prayer. He could do it again.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 15, 2010
at 11:53 AM
LOL….just saw Virginia’s response….now THAT is extreme!!!!
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 11:19 AM
This would all be sooooooooo funny, if you weren’t serious, which makes it very sad for our once great nation. IF you actually knew me, you would know that I am far from a racist, that I have a diverse group of friends, work very closely with hispanic people……most of whom support our new AZ law and that I work very hard to pay my taxes, so, yes…..a lot of very lazy people don’t have to. Spin how you wish, but taxpayer money does, in fact, go toward EVERY government program, and that includes handouts……I am not against poor people….I am against LAZY people, who do not even try. I am not against EVERY government benefit, just the indiscriminate application of those benefits.
Oh….and I go to church and pray for all of you! I can’t think of a single person or group of people that I hate. I am simply passionate about my beliefs……as are all of you.
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 11:11 AM
Carol, I am in AZ also and can say your idealogy and the many others out here with the same thinking have really screwed us over and over, especially this time. Look at all those boycotting our state. Right when we need the revenue so desperately.
First of all the unions have no power here, as it is a right-to-work state. Remember when they began a crackdown on illegals on the farms several years ago and the crops ended up rotting in the fields because no legal residents wanted anything to do with that kind of work and our legal worker system is so bogged down and nonfunctioning that it needs an overhaul. Farmers were desperately placing ads and trying to lure the mass of unemployeds who complained about no work but didn’t want that kind of work. That’s the lazy you speak about. We’re talking high schoolers and mostly white folks “too good” to do that back-breaking work. All the latinos I know work for a living, those who are citizens and those here on work visas. I don’t run across many here illegally, and I am in construction. Those who are outlaws are going to be outlaws no matter how many laws we make. The illegals may get in here in AZ, but they don’t stay in AZ.
And Virginia, I don’t know how you earn your money, but your comment is completely racial and ignorant. You should take time to read and understand the laws that affect you, both man’s laws and God’s laws. They don’t come color-coded, and ignorance of them is no excuse for not complying to them. Sheesh! 🙄
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By: Poolman on May 15, 2010
at 11:04 AM
Honeslty people. The real fear is that they just might become legal and buy the house next door just like Helen said.
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By: Paula on May 15, 2010
at 10:54 AM
My God, Virginia, you make me ashamed to be white.
I have to remind myself that it isn’t a racial thing, it’s about who has managed to grab all the “stuff” and wants to keep it for himself. The “it’s all mine” crowd, which exploits others shamelessly to grab everything in sight, comes in many colors.
Bottom line: VOTE, with dollars and the feet that will take you to your polling place. And may there be more good people than evil people this fall.
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By: Rae on May 15, 2010
at 10:53 AM
Thank you rae, and no, sadly, it looks like it hasn’t.
And speaking of being overtaxed, Virginia, where do you think the AZ state government is going to go to recoup the monetary losses from all the boycotts?
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 15, 2010
at 10:53 AM
Honey, excellent points, and all the more affecting because you speak from experience. My dad’s family came in the 1700s, when everyone was illegal. My mom’s came across the border from Canada a couple of hundred years later. Borders were porous then, and people were coming and going pretty much all of the time. Of course each new group that came was both reviled (those dirty Irish / Germans / Italians / Chinese / Vietnamese / etc!) as freeloaders by the people who had come a few years earlier, and exploited as cheap labor. Nothing has changed much, has it?
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By: Rae on May 15, 2010
at 10:44 AM
Yes, Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus, and he’s as white as the snow on which he rides his sleigh!!! LOL “and Blacks” ??? LOL See, I knew this had NOTHING at all to do with racism. Yeah. and I have a bridge in Brooklyn and some lovely swamp land in Florida I’d LOVE to sell you. Cheap.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 15, 2010
at 10:42 AM
You know. People like Carol.
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By: Paula on May 15, 2010
at 10:41 AM
DEMS! We have to turn out the vote again. We can’t let the R’s take us backward. We’ve come too far and we barely survived Bush.
TURN OUT THE VOTE THIS NOVEMBER or wake up in January witha bunch of Tea Bagging Yahoo’s running the government.
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By: Paula on May 15, 2010
at 10:41 AM
I earned the money. I should get to keep it and any law that prevents Mexicans and Blacks from taking it from me is a law I can live by.
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By: Virginia on May 15, 2010
at 10:38 AM
Granny done gone off on some people. Gotta love it. Damn!
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By: Youth on May 15, 2010
at 10:37 AM
Oh usue Carol. Rein in the Unions. Because people who pick tomatoes don’t deserve a fair wage, health benefits, and a weekend. Jeez. Lady, you are one cold hearted biatch. Been to church recently or you too aftraid some drug cartel will shoot you along the way?
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By: Patricia on May 15, 2010
at 10:36 AM
Those Damn Poor People Ruin Everything.
https://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/those-darn-poor-people-ruin-everything/
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By: Patricia on May 15, 2010
at 10:34 AM
Caorl – refer back to an earlier post from Helen titled THos Poor People ruin Everything.
You can find it here: https://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/those-darn-poor-people-ruin-everything/
Or just go back to October 23, 2008
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By: Bob on May 15, 2010
at 10:26 AM
That was exactly my point, Rae. I haven’t been in high school in a couple of decades, so I must admit I’m not up on the current “trying to get kids to stay off drugs” programs, but the bottom line is in fact, it’s simple supply and demand. Drug cartels come here to sell drugs because American citizens buy them. And a lot of them have blue eyes. Personally I don’t really think legalization is the way to go, so many more problems come with that, like bigger government to oversee exporting and importing, and quality. You can’t really legally sell cocaine laced with whatever nasty thing they cut it with that could end up killing you. I think Phillip Morris could testify to the liability issues that will raise their ugly heads as well. But as far as I’m concerned, if you’ve ever snorted a line of cocaine or ever done any illicit drug, you’ve contributed to the problem and have forfeited your right to bitch about drug trafficking.
And I’m sorry, I just don’t get the “lazy asses wanting to suck America’s resources dry” bit. My father was born here, the son of immigrants. He went to work as soon as he as old enough to carry a sack of groceries or coal, played football for his high school team, went into the Navy and served this country fighting in the Korean War, finished college and went to work as an aerospace engineer designing defense weaponry, again for this country. In his free time, of which he had very little, he taught English as a second language to newly legalized citizens to help them assimilate. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who’s worked harder than my father, or done more for his family, or for this country. The “they’re all dirty, lazy rabble who want a free ride” argument just doesn’t click with me because it simply isn’t my reality.
Yes, Carol, your hatred is very palpable, and I too believe it is clouding your judgment. You can spew till the cows come home what you would do IF you were hispanic. But I don’t have to pontificate or hypothesize, because I am in fact hispanic. I’m listening to you and have said you do have valid concerns, but I just don’t think this is the right way to go about solving them. Are you listening to anyone or anything past your own fear and paranoia?
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 15, 2010
at 10:24 AM
[…] Somewhere over the rainbow… […]
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By: Somewhere over the rainbow… | themcglynn.com/theliberal.net on May 15, 2010
at 10:16 AM
Well duh! It took me awhile, but no wonder Margaret walks everyday. The minute Howard switched that hate porn, Rush Limbaugh, on I’d be out the door too.
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By: No One's Puppet on May 15, 2010
at 10:03 AM
Food costs are subsidized by taxpayers. And we have an economy that depends upon cheap illegal labor — it’s the new slavery. The truth is that eventually we will have to pay what it really costs to produce our food — and $5 a tomato may end up sounding like a pretty good deal. As for unions, I’m somewhat ambivalent (look what they’ve done to the teaching “profession,”), but at least union people can say they work and produce something, which is more than you can say for a lot of other folks who claim to be employed.
Our drug problem is our drug problem — as long as we provide a market, someone will supply it. We could eliminate the crime associated with its production and delivery by legalizing it. And of course D.A.R.E. doesn’t work. It’s silly.
Carol, your hatred is palpable, and is clouding your judgment. Do you really understand where the money comes from and where it goes? Do you really understand who is producing in this country, and who isn’t? Do you really understand what gets subsidized by “taxpayers” (hint: it isn’t poor people)? And, remember, there are lots of poor people out there fighting wars to keep the cheap energy flowing along with the cheap food.
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By: Rae on May 15, 2010
at 10:01 AM
And…..get alot of those lazy asses off government support and make them do those jobs. But, no….you bleeding hearts want to support soooooooooooo many people who are perfectly capable of helping themselves! Every able-bodied person receiving welfare benefits SHOULD be grateful to pick tomatoes, etc. But the liberals have made government handouts MUCH more profitable….and certainly easier!
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 9:44 AM
You want cheaper tomatoes??? Reign in the unions….the true bane of this nation!
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 9:41 AM
A D.A.R.E program????? You have got to be kidding….Drug cartels are far more powerful than any stupid and ineffective school program. Why do you think those programs are no longer used? Because they have been proven to NOT work. The drug cartels would just laugh at you! I live in Arizona and believe me….the costs to us as taxpayers is astronomical for our schools, law enforcement, medical care. I am paying for not only my family, but the thousands of ILLEGAL families who come pouring through our borders every day!!!! If I were of hispanic origin, I would rather be questioned 20 times a day, than to have to pay the exhorbitant taxes I now must to support the ILLEGALS.
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By: Carol on May 15, 2010
at 9:40 AM
Anothe rawesome, spot on post! Thanks.
Bill, God how I wish the whole Cheney/Halliburton thing WAS 10 friggin’ years ago. Perhaps you haven’t heard, but there’s this little leak in the Gulf of Mexico right now, that equals the Exxon Valdez spill every four days. So it’s the worst environmental disaster in this country’s history times, what, three now? Four? I’ve lost count of the days. And it happened in part because while Cheney was vice president, the White House loosened up environmental regulations and controls at every angle, making this kind of disaster much more easy to happen. So, no, the “whole Halliburton/Cheney thing” is unfortunately happening right now.
Another thing I wish the righ twingers and tea baggers were smart enough to understand is that those of us who are against the new AZ law are not agaisnt it because we are for illegals pouring into our country to spread chaos, crime, disease and havoc across this land. OF course illegal immiagration is a problem that needs to be dealt with. But not this way. I am NOT concerned with the civil rights of illegal immigrants. I am concerned about MY civil rights. As a hispanic, born in this country, and from parents also born in this country, all my life I have been asked “are you American?? Funny, you don’t LOOK American!” Once in college, when I took a second to think about how to answer a question, the irritated girl asking me the question shot at me, “Tsk, do you speak English??!!” I was pulled over by a cop once for speeding, going a bit faster than the flow of the traffic, in the passing lane, when I was so excited about a Christmas present I had just bought for my brother. The cop looked at my driver’s license and said “mmmm…this doesn’t look like you.” I didn’t have my passport with me. If it had been Arizona, and if he had been in a bad mood, I would have been going downtown. God knows what. Did we learn NOTHING from the Japanese-American internment camps in WWII? Sorry, I’m not willing to give up my righ tto walk down the street minding my own business and not be accosted, stopped, detained, questioned by police just because I happen to “look” like an illegal. Not gonna do it, and neither would you, and you know it. Of course drug cartels are a problem. So start a D.A.R.E program at your local school. Of course illegals flooding this country to work off the books is a problem. So get the government to enforce the laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS regarding businesses hiring illegals, and figure out a way to get a tomato picked without it costing $6 at the grocery store. I saw an experimental program on tv once where one town was using convicts in a work program to pick produce. That sounded like a good idea. No hiring illegals and no burden on the company to have to pay minimum wage and social security taxes, driving up prices for everyone. I know you’ve got real, valid concerns about illegal immigration, but sorry, you don’t get to stomp on my civil rights in order to deal with them.
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By: HoneyJorumples on May 15, 2010
at 8:41 AM
Oh, Helen… you are a woman after my heart! Nobody says it better than you!
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By: CatLadyLarew on May 15, 2010
at 8:38 AM
[…] Somewhere over the rainbow… — A terrific rant about the GOP. Heh. […]
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By: [links] Link salad wonders who will serve and who will eat | jlake.com on May 15, 2010
at 7:22 AM
I hope everybody who reads this is planning on voting when it’s your turn. I think the general apathy is one of the most dangerous things about our country. The Tea Party folks are a small minority, but the media hypes them so much that they look more powerful than they really are. We need to step up and show with our votes that they are full of hot air.
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By: Meredith on May 15, 2010
at 7:20 AM
Ahhh the sun has risen, the birds are singing, and there’s a new post at M&H’s porch. Yes, the world is a better place! Thanks so much for another spot-on post.
And to the naysayers like Carol ~ it’s a sad day in this country when folks who support human rights and believe in the Law of the Land (aka US Constitution) are perceived as wingnuts. Up is down and down is up in your world, isn’ it? & Bill, Don’t you get dizzy trying to justify your racism in a multicultural world? Or are you so busy clinging to the whites-only raft that you don’t realize how you’re destroying the greatest thing about this country – that no matter what color, what creed, what background you may have, everyone is equal and has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Or would you rather just outlaw all of that too?
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By: Greytdog on May 15, 2010
at 7:18 AM
Television. Most effective mind-control ever devised. Whipping the ignorant and the fearful into a frenzy of false nostalgia for a world that never was. Filling the pockets of those who profit from our addiction to consumption and debt. You want freedom? Stop yammering about gun control, illegals, and “socialism.” Turn off the danged TV.
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By: Rae on May 15, 2010
at 6:35 AM
helen i love when you write.
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By: barbara on May 15, 2010
at 5:14 AM
And Helen, please take heart from this: http://www.themudflats.net/2010/05/14/open-thread-surprise/
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By: SagiDreamer on May 15, 2010
at 2:39 AM
Give ’em hell, Helen!
****
We all know that RWers (whether Republican or “Independent”) do nothing but spew the same-old-same-old talking points that have been circulated among them – and none with a grain of truth. They don’t even know what “truth” is any more.
My personal fantasy is to have EVERY Dem who appears with the talking heads – including those talking heads who purport to be “liberals” – would simply ask each and every one of your questions – and then say nothing else. If they would do that over and over again, it might jump-start the logical thought process where it has been so long stalled.
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By: SagiDreamer on May 15, 2010
at 2:36 AM
Brilliant as always! I look forward to your posts that give hope to many of us up in Canada. It’s comforting to know that the loud, shrill voices of the Republicans and Tea Party are not THE voice of all Americans. Your blog is being forwarded to many friends who will sigh a large sigh of relief that there are still people south of us who possess common sense. Thank you, Helen.
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By: conventgirl on May 15, 2010
at 1:55 AM
Hi congenial Gang and Elizabeth2 on May 14, 2010 at 11:46A,
Thanks Elizabeth2 for putting up “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” by Israel Kamakawiwo’ole. He is much beloved here in the islands. He was the gentlest of gentle giants. He was born and raised on the tiny island of Ni’ihau not far from ours. There are some interesting stories about him and Ni’ihau.
Incidentally, I am an Old Broad but not quite so old that I came over on the fourth voyage of the Mayflower with some of my ancestors. But weren’t the Pilgrims ‘illegal aliens’ on those North American shores?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 15, 2010
at 12:08 AM
Dear Helen and Margaret too,
Thank you once again for spelling out where we are and where we are going if we don’t stay awake and plan ahead. You encourage most of us here to get out there, respond and rebut.
For too long we sat back and couldn’t believe that any American could be so naive and gullible to swallow the BS being shoveled by the GOP and self-styled, self-serving ‘conservatives’. I was one who couldn’t believe it when Bush was elected to his first term and then appalled with the second one. No more. We progressives will stand together from now on.
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: JeanΔ ¥ on May 14, 2010
at 11:45 PM
You are truly a left wingnut…and completely clueless…..time will tell the truth.
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By: Carol on May 14, 2010
at 11:00 PM
Now and again I hear some idiot say “you liberals are afraid of us.” True, we are afraid, but not of you. Afraid for what will happen to our country if you take over, because unfortunately for us, we’ve read history. We know what it’s going to look like. Keep speaking truth to insanity, Helen. And thanks for showing up.
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By: Rae on May 14, 2010
at 8:33 PM
Bravo!
The unfortunate fact is that the folks who most need to read (and understand) what you say (see Bill, above) are the same ones who take a stubborn pride in being ignorant. They prefer living in the fantasy world they’ve created and are immune to stupid things like facts. There’s a word for people who prefer ideologically “pure” ideas to those that actually work – and that word is “dumbasses.” They inhabit a black hole of stupid so dense that light cannot penetrate it, and neither logic nor reason can escape.
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By: jennofark on May 14, 2010
at 8:32 PM
Glld to see you back!
Computer on fritz so ohly here sporadically.
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By: GrandmaKatie on May 14, 2010
at 8:29 PM
Thanks for the new post Helen! The people from the shameless right have checked their brains at the door a long time ago! How else could Rush’s success be explained? It feels like they are stuck in the 50s or something. The world has changed and they got left behind. That is all there is to it. Some ideas popular in those days are now better left behind. However, they keep clinging to them unfortunately to the detriment of this nation and of all of us. The American electorate is fickle and really literally goes where the wind blows, and yes, the 24-hour news cycle does not help. The brainwashing is on, 24 hours a day.
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By: Easier on May 14, 2010
at 7:38 PM
Glad to see you back again!
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By: Nancy on May 14, 2010
at 7:10 PM
Right on as usual….facts are facts, and they don’t lie!! Can’t add much more to the already articulate, albeit wordy, comments………glad to have you back!
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By: chris on May 14, 2010
at 6:14 PM
Boy you can lay it out ! Good on you you brave soul. Living in Texas and taking accurate verbal potshots at those candy ass gun nuts that use a gun for their balls and bullets for their brains. OK-That last was maybe wishful thinking on my part. If you have to carry as many handguns and Uzi type weapons some of these nuts display they must have high levels of insecurity.
BTW-Bill even tho it was 10 freakin’ years ago we are still dealing with the fallout, and the spillage, and the scandals and ,ah fugeddaboudit, your type ain’t payin’ attention…
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By: faithfulpup on May 14, 2010
at 4:58 PM
This is the first time i’ve visited your site and I LOVE YOU! you cracked me up so badly today! My friend turned me onto your page because he said you sound just like me. and he’s right. i could have written those words. in fact, i often to write those words! clever girls!
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By: Shelley on May 14, 2010
at 4:50 PM
Once again, you nailed it. Brilliant, simply brilliant. Oh, and Bill? Prejudice much?
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By: Debra L. Schubert on May 14, 2010
at 4:45 PM
Helen, you are amazing!
Where is Margaret?
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By: Anne T. on May 14, 2010
at 4:15 PM
By the way, I read a great editorial in Newsweek this morning about the drug smuggling and human trafficing problems in Arizona (where 60% of our drugs cross the border) and it has really taken over cities like Pheonix and Tucson. This law is a way of dealing with the problem, since the government can’t seem to close the borders. Neighborhoods have been completely taken over and parents are afriad to let their kids play in the backyard. It’s really horrible.
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By: Anne on May 14, 2010
at 4:13 PM
Dear All:
I have been gone for awhile. I got laid off in Febuary and being home full-time with the kids hasn’t given me a lot of free time. I wanted to mention that a few months ago I read a book called The Death of Conservatism, which talked about how the Republican party has changed from one whose principals were built on keeping what works and changing the rest, to a purely ideological party now. It began with a reaction to Roosevelt’s New Deal during the Depression, evolved through Vietnam, and was overtaken in the 70s during Carter’s administration, in a direct response to the government cutting funding to a college if it didn’t agree to let black people in. You heard me. Up until that point, Baptists and other fundamental religions stayed out of politics. They were strick sepertation of church and state believers. After the court ruling (which actually went into effect before Carter came to office) they decided if government could interfer in their affairs, then they’d interfere in government, and so Carter was blamed and the Baptist threw their support behind Regan, who introduced the whole idea of cutting taxes and increasing spending on the military during a recession (sound familiar?). He actually realized quickly that it didn’t work and raised taxes after that, but the perception had already been established. And then we got Bush, who believed the whole cutting taxes while increasing spending during a recession was actually a good idea. (Remember Cheney said deficits don’t matter?) And so now we have a party that is more about ideals that practicalities, and spends its fighting whatever the other side does because it doesn’t really have any core principals anymore. It still says it’s for smaller government, but when it comes to cutting military spending or medicare, medicaid or social security, which make up the majority of government spending, they are against it. Unfortunately they’ll probably get voted back into office before they really figure out new principles. Let’s just hope Americans have health care before that happens.
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By: Anne on May 14, 2010
at 4:10 PM
Hey Bill, how does it feel to be discounted as a fool?
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By: Don on May 14, 2010
at 2:52 PM
You need to post more often! Once again you are right on!
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By: Don on May 14, 2010
at 2:49 PM
Will link this to infinity! Hilarious and crazy, scary true! Luv ya!
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By: T. on May 14, 2010
at 1:51 PM
I love your blog!!! By the way there are those of us who grew up in Arizona who are very upset about this new law. I’m white and I like the cultural diversity, so please realize there are others like me here. However our voices are drowned by the hate mongers. It didn’t used to be this way, but our state has changed with all the “immigrants” from the midwest and other parts of the country.
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By: Saguaro on May 14, 2010
at 1:47 PM
As someone in Charlotte, NC and having the “pleasure” of the NRA and Sarah Palin as they blow smoke up each other ass, Helen, you are dead on.
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By: Darryl on May 14, 2010
at 1:42 PM
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I absolutely love you two. You write exactly what I fail to put into words. Take care ladies.
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By: Sue on May 14, 2010
at 1:40 PM
As usual, you say what I feel…..just much more artfully and amusingly. Thanks!
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By: dearie on May 14, 2010
at 1:32 PM
HEY, BILL! “Time to move on”?
Tell that to those who dredge up Bill Ayers; tell that to those who still worship Reagan the myth; tell that to those who long for the Ozzie-and-Harriet fictional past (when taxes were far higher than now); tell that to those who celebrate losing the Civil War (and, I think, mourn the passing of slavery); tell that to those who think the Constitution should be a dead document; tell that to those who think progressives ruined Utopia rather than forestalled Armageddon.
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By: tomgnh on May 14, 2010
at 1:17 PM
It’s a delight to see so many new contributors and old hands show up whenever H&M post a new offering. I just hope all will still be here when the obnoxious, bumper-sticker quoting trolls crawl out of their outhouses and show up here in a couple days.
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By: jsri on May 14, 2010
at 12:59 PM
Great post as always but Joy Nitzels’ responce, whiile less humorus, is just as pertinent. Thank you Helen and thank you Colorado Blue.
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By: Jerry C. on May 14, 2010
at 12:34 PM
Hey, you gotta a black dude in the White House now and that Halliburton/Cheney thing was 10 freakin years ago. Time to move on bag-lady!
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By: bill on May 14, 2010
at 12:25 PM
Thank you so much for your post. I’ve missed you. You are spot on regarding Rush. I don’t understand the stupidity of folks who buy into everything the guy spews. It’s so easy to check facts these days, but it does take a bit of time and apparently the “ditto heads” can’t spare a few moments away from watching “Cops” and washing down the oxycodin with beer.
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By: kathy on May 14, 2010
at 11:55 AM
Somewhere over the rainbow…
Kamakawiwo’ole Lyrics:
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By: Elizabeth2 on May 14, 2010
at 11:42 AM
Helen, I have never met or corresponded with you, but damn, if I don’t think you’re the bee’s knees! It’s great to see you deliver a huge kick in the butt, which Lord know we need one often enough! Or is it a kick in the head we need most? Just keep bringin’ it on, lady, and we’ll figure it out!! xxoo Debbie
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By: Deborah on May 14, 2010
at 11:39 AM
M & H always wonderful to read another insightful post from you.
(((((((((((((((( M & H ))))))))))))))))
Sarah Palin – You Fouled Out; Game Over
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By: Elizabeth2 on May 14, 2010
at 11:34 AM
Yes Helen, you are so right . . . a portion of our idiot electorate WILL once again elect more republicans so that they can put our country right back on the same path it was when Bush/Cheney left office in January 2009. I will NEVER understand how they can now believe that any republican will HELP our country. Furthermore, while they continue in their election of fringe Tea Gaggers to congress, how do they think anything will be accomplished since these people REFUSE to NEGOTIATE OR COMPROMISE which is the ONLY reason they are being elected?
I don’t pretend to understand their thinking, but perhaps that is the problem since they are obviously NOT THINKING. No one can help us because with these people in charge, America has no chance of accomplishment. Our nation was once considered a respected world community however, with republicans in charge, it will have effectively become a country of ANGRY and BLATANTLY STUPID ‘AUTHORITY’.
Thank you so very much for your humorous and important insight and for ‘lighting’ up my day as you always manage to do. Love you and Margaret both!
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By: Disparaged on May 14, 2010
at 11:14 AM
Helen on SNL!
WHAT A HOOT!!!
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By: Tammie Lynne on May 14, 2010
at 11:11 AM
GREAT SUGGESTION Bawlmer Sue!!!!
Let’s get these ladies the NATIONAL attention they deserve!!! Maybe people will learn SOMETHING from them.
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By: Stephanie P. on May 14, 2010
at 11:09 AM
Boy I wish I could sit on your couch and listen to your comments during the nightly newscast. You seem to always write, beautifully I might add, what is on my mind. Thanks again. And selfishly I wish you would post at least once a week. You could be the Andy Rooney of the blogisphere!
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By: fets on May 14, 2010
at 11:09 AM
Fellow porch sitters = while we’re campaigning for Margaret and Helen to host SNL (an excellent sugestion,, by the way – would their scooters fit on the stage? ”cause that would be a great opening!), let’s also lobby to get them on Joy Behar’s HLN show, The View, and/or NPR’s “Wait!! Wait! Don’t Tell Me”
I also really, really mean it.
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By: bawlmer sue on May 14, 2010
at 10:59 AM
My contribution:
How many stories have to be told about multi-national corporations avoiding their fair share of taxes before the tea-bagger party people realize that every time a corporation avoids taxes, the the bigger tax burden is put on the American public?
I mean, honestly, I am all for corporations making a profit, but sheesh, when you take from the public good, you ought to have to put something back.
Good job, Helen!
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By: Anonymous on May 14, 2010
at 10:44 AM
There is a book called The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer (free, online) with the research explaining the whys of the stubborn stupidity you describe. Not that it helps, since they are so afraid that they are immune to reason or reality.
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By: zhoen on May 14, 2010
at 10:39 AM
Dear Helen –
What a relief & delight to hear from you again. I check your website every morning, just in case.
love/Fl!p
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By: Fl!p Breskin on May 14, 2010
at 10:37 AM
Your posts are always worth waiting on. My husband came into the living room where I sit with my laptop to see if I was laughing or crying. I said, “you have to read Margaret and Helen.” He said, who? So I read it to him. Right on he says. I love your humor, but I love mostly your truths.
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By: daisydem on May 14, 2010
at 10:24 AM
How many seas must a white duck sail….
It’s sad, all of it. Did you see the new Hawaii law that refuses to answer a person’s request to see Obama’s birth certificate if that person has already had that request granted in the past year or so? What sort of nutcakes are they dealing with to have to pass a law like that?
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By: suburbancorrespondent on May 14, 2010
at 10:23 AM
[…] […]
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By: Margaret and Helen: Over The Rainbow - Politics and Other Controversies -Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Conservatives, Liberals, Third Parties, Left-Wing, Right-Wing, Congress, President - City-Data Forum on May 14, 2010
at 10:22 AM
This sort of polarization, hatred and public stupidity is common when a ‘way of life’ is dying out.
Time and time again throughout history the ‘haters’ make a last ditch effort to stop the changes they know in their bones are coming. The rhetoric gets heated and stupid, people get hurt.
Now, with the 24hr news cycle and the Blogoshpere we are all just more aware of it and exposed to it than we have been in the past.
The key is to answer violent rhetoric with humor, hatred/racism with love/inclusion, and *most importantly* stupidity with intelligence.
You have certainly done that here Helen! Kudos to you.
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By: Eddie Louise on May 14, 2010
at 10:14 AM
You go girl!
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By: Bobbie on May 14, 2010
at 9:34 AM
I heart you both!
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By: episcopalifem on May 14, 2010
at 9:28 AM
Oh and one more thing…how can people listen to that Limbaugh creature and give that fat pig any of their money. People really are to stupid for their own good and should be institutionalized.
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By: Corie on May 14, 2010
at 9:23 AM
Right on Helen. I agree with every word you say. Those Republicans are a bunch of doofuses.
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By: Corie on May 14, 2010
at 9:20 AM
I knew you’d come up with another “10” !!!!
For those of you disenchanted, frustrated or angry with our President, please remember that a President is only as effective as his legislature. Presidents can not make the law, that is for the legislative branch; something Bush/Cheney did not understand.
The Democrats have NEVER had a super majority which would give them the power to override vetos and to break filabusters.
The Democrats have had Senators like Mary Landreaux, Blanche Lincoln, Max Baucus, Ben Nelson and that rats ass “independent” Liebermann voting, in lock-step, with Republicans, screaming NO to everything that has been brought to the floor of the Senate.
If you are angry with policy, get rid of your congress-person in the primary and get someone in who is going to promote a progressive agenda. Fight to take the money out of politics and fight for term limits for congress.
The New Republican Teabagger party is just that………all those ignorant, hate and fear-mongering people with mis-spelled signs will be your new congress-persons if you don’t get out and vote Democratic. There is no longer a difference between the Republican party and The Baggers. They have become meshed together by their hate for this president. Republicans have bent over and given the Baggers their way. Never forget a Bagger IS a Republican, the Bagger agenda IS the Republican agenda. Is that what you want ??
Arizona is the new bastion for the hate and fear movement aka Republican Bagger agenda.
Having spent 2 months in Phoenix this spring, I saw up close and personal what hideous people the Republicans have become. Each one is trying to out hate and out fear the next one.
Republicans have conveniently forgotten or possibly never knew because they do not think for themselves or read history, that their high exaulted leader Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to the illegal workers in the 1980s in order to bust the unions. Bush senior, Clinton and faux president baby Bush did NOTHING to shore up the borders, did nothing on immigration reform.
Big business did not want it. Where would they get cheap labor? They still don’t want it.
Senators McCain and Kyle have NEVER been concerned about illegal workers or immigration reform and they have been in the Senate since 1982. McCain was, in fact, for amnesty for illegal workers before he was against it.
Arizona has very strict employer laws concerning the hiring of illegal workers already on the books that they do not inforce. Their new “show us your papers” law is pure and simple one of hate and is simply a validation for the illegal goings on of idiot “sheriff Joe” . The “no more ethnic studies” edict from the Superintendent of school is all about hate, the new concealed carry a gun into any venue (but no drinking..winky winky), no background check necessary, no gun safety class required, no registration needed is because of hate.
Their crime rate was DOWN 40% last year before they decided hate mongering was in vogue.
Hopefully, no one is packing to go to Arizona, but if you are just remember the only thing you will need is a white sheet, a torch and your gun.
Is this where we really want to be in 2010?
If you don’t get out and vote, get out and register to vote or get out and work for better candidates, the hate and fear mongering, white supremicist, sheet wearing, torch carrying Republican Teabag party WILL become the majority!!
“They” want you to give up because that is the only way they can win.
You stupid “birthers”……..don’t you think that IF there was some sort of birth certificate problem with PRESIDENT OBAMA, that the McCain/Palin campaign would have come up with something? Palin made it ok for every hate mongering group to become viable after years of staying under their rocks. She did nothing but spew hate and fear about Barack Obama, yet your stupid “birther” issue was never an issue.
Interesting that the head “birther mama” is from Arizona…….
Colorado Blue
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By: Joy Nitzel on May 14, 2010
at 9:17 AM
Helen,
Thanks, as always, for your wonderful dose of perspective. It always makes my day.
Hope all is well with you.
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By: 2legit on May 14, 2010
at 9:12 AM
It’s been a *long* time since I have had a chance to visit your porch, but I knew it would be as good as ever when I was able to stop by.
Thanks for another great one.
My additions:
How many textbook deletions will it take until our kids learn only _Bible_ based mythology in every school?
~and~
How many teachers will be fired before these yahoos realize there is no one left to teach kids how to read and write competent, declarative sentences? (Oh wait…)
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By: skyewriter on May 14, 2010
at 9:12 AM
Always wonderful to see a new post.
I’ve always liked what Bill Mahr said a while ago on Politically Incorrect. Discussing a bill in California that limited the number of guns an individual could buy per day, he asked, “How small can your penis be?”
That may not be a direct quote, but it it close.
And how does my marrying another man effect anyone else’s marriage?
And I mean it, really.
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By: ol&p on May 14, 2010
at 9:07 AM
Also- How many more offensive comments can Elizabeth Hasselbeck make before people realize that she’s a radical crazy bimbo whose credentials include popping out kids and appearing on “Survivor.”
She’s a discredit to the state of Rhode Island, that’s for sure.
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By: Txtingmrdarcy on May 14, 2010
at 9:04 AM
I love your posts. I mean it really.
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By: Brent Kilgro on May 14, 2010
at 8:57 AM
Brilliant! You rock 🙂
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By: Kerryanne on May 14, 2010
at 8:56 AM
Another good one, Helen! Thanks. I wait and wait for these.
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By: Dave Clark on May 14, 2010
at 8:52 AM
Sweet…great way to start the day…Thanks Helen…All soo true, think i will declare a no $arah day…
Can only take so much…Have a great day….
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By: Star on May 14, 2010
at 8:49 AM
Spot on once again, Helen! What a great way to start my morning . . . it’s been too long. Hope you have a great weekend!!
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By: Joni on May 14, 2010
at 8:47 AM
Good morning Helen! Like Forrest says, “stupid is as stupid does.” Ahhh, the circus of politics!
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By: Poolman on May 14, 2010
at 8:36 AM
Wow! This is my first time here on a suggestion from feetoffthetable.blogspot. WHERE have you been all my political life? lol. Everything I think and feel is in this post right down to Sarah and the codes. OMG. BP is just a bunch of lying idiots and we’re going down the tubes.
I LOVE your style. Love it.
Peace.
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By: sheila on May 14, 2010
at 8:36 AM
If I wasn’t crying I’d be laughing. Sarah Palin terrifies me!
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By: Tory Bers on May 14, 2010
at 8:24 AM
And the absurd-est part of it all is that these cottonhead ninnymuggins can’t even see how absurd it all is!
Thanks for this post. It made my day. 🙂
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By: Tine on May 14, 2010
at 8:19 AM
So have Margaret and Howard swallowed the Kool-Aid?
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By: Doxy on May 14, 2010
at 8:18 AM
Margaret & Helen need to host Saturday Night Live!
They get my vote.
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By: Justin on May 14, 2010
at 8:11 AM
Stephanie Miller needs to read this!!!!!
Let’s all send it to her!!!
🙂
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By: Melissa on May 14, 2010
at 8:10 AM
Helen, nice to know that there are Americans with common sense, we sometimes wonder.
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By: Margaret Nelson on May 14, 2010
at 8:01 AM
You are the best!!!!!!!!!!
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By: Mark on May 14, 2010
at 7:59 AM
Each time your column appears in my email box is a wonderful reprieve from a crazy world, an oasis of thought and sense, and it is appreciated fully, savored with gratitude.
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By: Larry Piltz on May 14, 2010
at 7:49 AM
At last! Helen, those periods of no new posts are the best/worst examples of abstinence!
As for Limbaugh, I think he was separated at birth from Beck.
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on May 14, 2010
at 7:48 AM
You are hilarious…and spot on!!!
I’m sending this to EVERYONE I know!!!
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By: Mavel T. on May 14, 2010
at 7:48 AM