Margaret is it just me or did combing your hair become optional when going out in public? I’ve been watching news clips of these town hall free-for-alls and we have definitely become a nation of tired, poor, and huddled masses clearly tempest-tossed, but without access to a good beauty salon. Universal Hygiene – now that is something I could get behind. And all of them are asking for their America back. I wonder which America that would be?
Would that be the America where the Supreme Court picks your president instead of counting all the votes? Would that be the America where rights to privacy are ignored? Would that be the America where the Vice President shoots his best friend in the face? Or would that be the America where an idiot from Alaska and a college drop-out with a radio show could become the torchbearers for the now illiterate Republican party?
I fear that would not be the America they want back. I fear that the America they want back is the one where black men don’t become President.
I remember that America. In that America people screaming at public gatherings were called out for what they were – an angry mob. Of course, they wore sheets to cover up their bad hair. Let’s be clear about something: if you show up to a town hall meeting with a gun strapped to your leg, the point you are trying to make isn’t a good one. Fear never produced anything worthwhile.
And what’s all this crap about killing your grandmother? Are you people honestly that stupid? This has become less an argument about healthcare reform and more a statement about our failed education system. Margaret, I don’t know what plans you’ve made up there with Howard, but down here with Harold, we have living wills to determine how we will leave this world when the time comes. Mine states that unless the feeding tube is large enough for a piece of pie, I don’t want to be hooked up to it. Harold, of course, says his can only be connected to him if the other end is connected to a bottle of single malt scotch.
Now shame on me for making a joke about a serious subject, but if these morons are going to show up and scream at their elected officials, they need to educate themselves about the subject at hand. No one is planning on killing you or your grandmother with rationed healthcare or death squads. By the looks of the American citizenry turning out for these town hall meetings, we’re doing a fine job of killing ourselves with fast food, cigarettes and an overindulgence of ignorance.
The Founding Fathers couldn’t have seen this coming. If they had, the right to free speech would have been conditional upon one’s ability to read. But the Founding Fathers didn’t plan on the likes of Palin, Cheney and Limbaugh.
I too long for the America I remember as a child, Margaret. The one where men used guns to hunt quail and women visited a beauty salon at least once a week. Oh, those were the days. I wish we had them back. I mean it. Really.
Margaret and Helen 
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By: Jane the health store on November 26, 2011
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“And what’s all this crap about killing your grandmother? Are you people honestly that stupid? This has become less an argument about healthcare reform and more a statement about our failed education system.” I hate to tell you fine ladies that it’s in there—and I did read it, thank you very much. What it says is: there will be NO MORE HOSPICE; it also states that the decisions to treat you will be made by members of the healthcare panel–and not by you or your physician. Therefore, if your case is terminal, your family will be provided on information (via a brochure) on how to care for your at home and how to make you “more comfortable.” Believe me, the Obama-Pelosi-Reid “Healthcare Reform” is nothing more than a death bill. Please, call it by its correct name and stop inflating it as something great. And, by the way, if a child has a terminal condition, the family gets the same termination information as grandma gets. In other words, if you will not heal and become viable once again, you get NO medical treatment. End of story.
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[…] Thank Deity there’s still sense in the world. If a fat, 83-year-old Texas woman gets it this clearly, perhaps there’s hope for us yet: Margaret is it just me or did combing your hair become […]
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By: wrought iron fence on April 12, 2010
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All these “tea party patriots” are just mad because there’s a black man in the White House, a woman is Speaker of the House, there’s a Latina on the Supreme Court and a powerful gay man in Congress. They’re afraid of being disenfranchised — you know, the way that they have traditionally done to others?
Sad little people, trying to hang on to their ignorance and hegemony. 😦
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[…] and Helen are older ladies and I love their blog. They comment on the townhall meetings and the good ol’ days. Supermodels without makeup. This does have […]
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By: News & views round up « Wildflower on December 15, 2009
at 10:01 AM
My aunt, mom, and their friends are in their eighties. They can’t stand Sarah Palin, and her shenanigans. They are from the old country-Japanese heritage, and if English was more their language, I know they would love this blog. I have other eighty-something friends who are down-to-earth, common-sense intelligent Americans who are of the same mind as Helen. Real intelligence and patriotism comes in all ages, shapes, and sizes.. and ethnicity. I love this blog. So do my children and grandchildren. You say what’s in our hearts and minds of all generations.
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By: Tales from the Shoebox. » Blog Archive » You can see me on the news! on September 25, 2009
at 5:37 PM
A few hundred years ago the “average Joe ” on the street thought the world was flat.
Even after it was proven to be untrue they refused to believe otherwise.
When the worlds population thought and acted like the world was flat…………..it wasn’t
Most folks today know about the human genome project, funded by the federal government:
Completed in 2003, the Human Genome Project (HGP) was a 13-year project coordinated by the U.S. Department of Energy and the National Institutes of Health. During the early years of the HGP, the Wellcome Trust (U.K.) became a major partner; additional contributions came from Japan, France, Germany, China, and others.
AND that we all originate from south east Africa.
This National Geographic project, The Genographic Project, has been all over the radio and television airwaves, news papers and magazines since April, 2005.
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/index.html
The same people that reject this science, continue to reject evolution and think that the world was created in 6 days.
Rejecting knowledge and choosing ignorance do not change facts.
These same people did not want Sotomayor as a justice because she was of color and they assumed her to be Mexican.
It would not matter what South American country or Island nation she came from, she had color.
These Americans would be reacting this way if their president had anything more than a John Bonehead tan.
It IS about every color but white.
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By: Martha on September 14, 2009
at 5:14 PM
[…] […]
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By: News, White House Dismisses Dowd Claim That Wilson Outburst Was Race-Based. - Politics and Other Controversies - Page 12 - City-Data Forum on September 13, 2009
at 4:54 PM
Brilliant post! I am saddened by all the rage and hatred right now.
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By: Tasa on September 13, 2009
at 11:11 AM
I believe this is my first visit to this blogsite and will return. In a bit of a hurry at the moment, but want to add something to “Graydog’s” comment. Are blogger’s actually doubting that an 83 year old woman is capable of thinking logically? Well I’m going to be 90 my next birthday and I invite anybody who wishes to, to join me on my blogsiter. Meander With Me. As for Margaret and Helen? Wish they were my next door neighbors!
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By: mary a. kaufman on September 7, 2009
at 8:12 AM
Anyone else notice how, whenever there’s a new posting, someone always shows up decrying the idea that Helen is an 83 yr old woman. Makes me wonder if these asshats would be as suspicious if this blog was called Max & Hank. . . . Colby T, if the only thing you & your frat bros have to do is try to debunk an 83yr old blogger, then you’re not spending enough time studying or sitting in class. Surely you have better things to do with your time ~ like keggers, figuring how to get some for the coming weekend, what body part to paint for the football game, and of course bookmarking all your cheats on your iPhone so you never miss out on the correct answer during exams.
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By: Greytdog on September 5, 2009
at 7:21 PM
There is no way that you are an 83 year old woman. I have a bet going with a group of my fraternity brothers to see who can uncover your true identity first. Watch out “Helen”. We are about to call bullshit!
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By: Colby T. on September 5, 2009
at 7:09 PM
Helen,
I live in Austin too. I would love to pick you up and take you out for pie sometime. You are an absolute hoot!
I will send you an email.
Have a great weekend!
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By: Grace Bradshaw on September 5, 2009
at 7:04 PM
Happy conservative
Fraud/theft drives up the cost of everything, from the healthcare policy that you have now to the apple you purchased at the grocery store. I don’t see why providing a public option would cause the cost of health care to be anymore or any less than it is right now.
The resources you speak of.. I assume you mean Doctors? Obama has spoken to that issue by suggesting we forgive portions of student loans for students that chose to be primary care providers, he has also suggested a program where the doctor agrees to so many years as a primary care Dr and all of their loans will be forgiven.
As it stands now a corporate bean counter is “rationing” you health care. I would much rather a DR. do it.
Lastly no one is talking aout a nationalized health care plan, if you have private insurance, and you like it you may keep it. What we want is a public OPTION.
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By: lori on September 5, 2009
at 6:22 PM
happyconservative, I advocate cleaning up our government and taking it back. I am behind transparency in government and term limits, elimination of lobbies and less government intervention. Our government has been being taken over by big business and special interests that have had their hand in it for over a hundred years. We need to take it back and get it to work for us instead of against us. With a transparent government and our intervention, we could have the best health care in the world. Right now the insurance companies are rationing care and provide our “death panels”.
And as far as raising our kids, it is every parent’s responsibility. Unfortunately, most are lax when it comes to raising them and would rather the TV or computer babysit them. This has greatly led to the decline in our kids being instilled with high morals and a strong work ethic.
Also, you do know Helen has posted anew yesterday, and most of us have moved over to there.
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By: Poolman on September 5, 2009
at 12:48 PM
happyconservative, I agree that parents are the biggest influence on our kids. We can’t put it all on the teachers. My husband and I pushed our kids, checked to make sure their homework was done (didn’t do it for them) and no TV till homework was done. We do not own video games and there are no TV’s in the bedrooms. (we’re soooo mean!) We encouraged reading for relaxation and pleasure. Both my girls are avid readers and my youngest is doing well as a college sophomore. I also know I was not the ONLY influence on my kids. I wanted as many people to encourage them to stay in school and learn — from grandparents to friends to teachers to people in the media. It is a message that isn’t said often enough and needs to come from many places to ensure the kids hear it. And perhaps, when kids hear the President tell them to set goals and stay in school next week, it may be the only voice in their life telling them that. While many people should encourage their kids, they do not.
Also, people keep throwing the word “freedom” around. Here is what I told my girls as they grew up “With freedom comes responsibility”. That is true with our nation too.
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By: kitkat on September 5, 2009
at 8:51 AM
Poolman,
I was reading some of your earlier posts, and I have to agree about Medicare reimbursements being to low for some doctors to accept Medicare. Fraud is also a problem. Those are exactly two of the problems that people from my side of the aisle have with nationalized health care. We think that many doctors will simply refuse to accept it because the low reimbursements will be too low. That’s one of the things that we think will lead to rationing. Too few resources lead to rationed care. The fraud is another issue. If fraud is a problem with Medicare, how big a problem do you think it will be if we nationalize the whole health care system? Again, this is something that we think will lead to rationing and/or a lower quality of care. Fraud will drive the price up, leading to scarcer resources.
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By: happyconservative on September 5, 2009
at 8:43 AM
Susan and Whirled,
What ammo. It sounds like democracy in action to me. Both sides standing up for their views; exercising their free speech. I say good for everyone.
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By: happyconservative on September 5, 2009
at 8:37 AM
I certainly understand everyone’s concerns about education. But, parents bear a good deal of the responsibility for that failure as well. A friend of mine, a guy I went college with, wanted nothing more in life than to be a teacher. He graduated with a degree in chemistry and got his teaching certificate. But, try as he might, he could not get a teaching job because he didn’t coach anything. He just wanted to teach science. But, he persevered. My friend took substitute teaching assignments which gave him the opportunity to meet all the school principles and get to know the faculty at the local schools. After about a year and a half, he was hired as a science teacher at one of the local middle schools. He quit after a year. You know why? He got tired of parents blaming him because their kids weren’t doing well in school. So, he would show him his grade book with all the empty spaces where their kids should have homework grades. My friend got tired of middle school kids threatening him physically. He got tired of coming to work every morning to see the police patting down kids in the parking lot.
I have to ask myself, why didn’t the parents care enough about their kids to make them do their homework? Mine did, continually. I’m sure they got tired of it. Why aren’t parents teaching their kids how to behave? I see it as a symptom of a much bigger problem in our country. In a sense, we’ve really become spineless. We are changing from a nation of independent people who took care of ourselves to a nation of people who expect others to take care of us. And, when someone else doesn’t take care of our problems for us, we blame them, instead of realizing that it was our job in the first place. I believe that what we are seeing in education is the symptom of an overall cultural decline.
I agree with you that it is appalling that kids can’t even count change these days. I could count change when I was in grade school, but the school didn’t teach me that. My mother did.
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By: happyconservative on September 5, 2009
at 8:29 AM
Whirled Peas,
Thanks for that condescending video. When you’re freedoms are stolen, it’s usually done by some arrogant zealot who thinks they know better than everyone else.
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By: happyconservative on September 5, 2009
at 8:28 AM
“suggesting that students write a letter to themselves about how they meet their own long-term goals”
That would be a good question to ask.
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By: happyconservative on September 5, 2009
at 8:24 AM
Honolulu Sally
Thanks. It’s not just who’s President, although I do disagree with most of his policies. It’s the continued growth of government. And, you can’t blame the Democrats alone for it. The Republicans are expanding government just much. They just do it over different issues. What many of fear we are seeing these days is the incremental loss of our freedoms.
Unless a foreign power invades your country, freedom isn’t lost overnight. It happens incrementally; step-by-step; a little bit at a time. It’s like boiling a frog. One day, you wake up in a totalitarian state. And, nobody saw it coming.
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By: happyconservative on September 5, 2009
at 8:22 AM
Oops — double entry, not intended. Sorry.
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By: Susan in CT on September 4, 2009
at 2:54 PM
“Is the question, “What can I do to support our President” in the questionnaire?”
According to the Hartford Courant (a hateful commie rag or a boot-licking right wing rag, depending on where you stand), the “initial suggestion in the lesson plan to write a letter to themselves about what they could do to help the president REDUCE THE DROPOUT RATE” [my emphasis] was changed to “suggesting that students write a letter to themselves about how they meet their own long-term goals, U.S. Department of Education spokeswoman Sandra Abrevaya said.
“It was to make it easier to use and to make it a clear document,” Abrevaya said. “It was not a reaction to anything political,” she said.
“Copies of the speach will be posted online Monday morning before the webcast, Abrevaya said.
“The goal of the speech and the classroom activities is to challenge students to work hard and to say in school. It’s not a policy speech. It’s a speech designed to encourage students to stay in school, aim high and meet their goals,” Abrevaya said….
“Chris Healy, chairman of the Connecticut Republican Party, called Obama’s speech ‘perfectly appropriate’ and predicted that children would be excited to hear it.
“I think people have got to relax,” Healy said.”
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By: Susan in CT on September 4, 2009
at 2:53 PM
“Is the question, “What can I do to support our President” in the questionnaire?”
According to the Hartford Courant (a hateful commie rag or a boot-licking right wing rag, depending on where you stand), the “initial suggestion in the lesson plan to write a letter to themselves about what they could do to help the president REDUCE THE DROPOUT RATE” was changed to “suggesting that students write a letter to themselves about how they meet their own long-term goals, U.S. Department of Education spokeswoman Sandra Abrevaya said.
“It was to make it easier to use and to make it a clear document,” Abrevaya said. “It was not a reaction to anything political,” she said.
“Copies of the speach will be posted online Monday morning before the webcast, Abrevaya said.
“The goal of the speech and the classroom activities is to challenge students to work hard and to say in school. It’s not a policy speech. It’s a speech designed to encourage students to stay in school, aim high and meet their goals,” Abrevaya said….
“Chris Healy, chairman of the Connecticut Republican Party, called Obama’s speech ‘perfectly appropriate’ and predicted that children would be excited to hear it.
“I think people have got to relax,” Healy said.”
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By: Cynical Susan on September 4, 2009
at 2:51 PM
@ Sherri Δ 9/3 – 9:21p:
“I don’t care how many disagreements or differences one has with President Obama, we ought to jumping for joy and thanking the heavens that he is addressing the dropout crisis in this country and encouraging kids to finish high school.”
Yeah Sherri Δ,
Could be what Hc says…or THIS.
I wonder what happened to James? 😉
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on September 4, 2009
at 2:11 PM
HappyConservative,
Is the question, “What can I do to support our President” in the questionnaire?
If so, I think that should be deleted to ask “What can I do to support the message of our President”.
If the message of the President is to stay in school, become the best that you can be, and that causes kids to start setting goals of graduation and beyond with either education, career, or business goals, then who in their righteous mind would object to that?
If the President asks students to respect their elders and teachers, and what can they do to support their elders, teachers, would you object to that? Is that control, indoctrination, political?
Pres. Obama had 3 cornerstones in his campaign. Energy, Education, and Health Care for all. BIG stuff needing BIG solutions.
One day I hope you can be glad that Barack Obama is President. You seem to be open minded enough to allow that change of heart.
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By: Honolulu Sally on September 4, 2009
at 1:56 PM
Sherri,
Teaching kids to stay in school is important. That’s not the problem. A lot of parents see it as an attempt to indoctrinate their children into a political philosophy that they don’t agree with. They also see it as a government attempt to usurp their roles as parents. I’ll give you an example of why they think that.
The workbook seems geared toward the Liberal agenda. Again, it’s an agenda that a lot of people disagree with. As I understand it, one of the exercises asks the kids to write a letter to themselves about how they can help the President. Not about how they can help the country. Not about how they can stay in school. But, about how they can help the President. To a lot of people, it looks like an attempt to get the kids to support the President’s agenda. Hence, it is seen as a form of political indoctrination.
I understand that many of you who read this blog like President Obama and approve of the job he is doing. OK. Try putting yourself in the other person’s shoes. How would you if President George W. Bush asked your child to write a letter about how to support him, as President? How would you react to that? That’s all I’m saying.
The ruthless pursuit of diversity is also a problem because of the way it is abused. When you talk about things like diversity and political correctness in terms of respecting each other, that’s a good thing. We should respect each other. But, those are values that parents should be teaching their children. When parents see the government trying to teach their children values, whatever those values are, they view it as the government trying to take over, and the parents rebel. Any attempt by government to usurp the parental role is Orwellian.
Causes like diversity and political correctness too often manifest themselves as a form of discrimination. They also seem like attempts to control what people think and say. “Correct speech” and “correct thought” are not democratic ideals. They are in fact Orwellian forms of control. They also smack of the kind of control that the Nazis and the Communists exercised on their own people. I understand that is not the intent, but that is often the result. You may not agree with what some people say. You may even consider it despicable (I often do). But, everyone has the right to free speech. Any attempt, no matter how subtle or unintentional, to suppress free speech is unacceptable.
That’s why so many people object to this thing. It doesn’t seem like an attempt to keep their kids in school. To them, it looks more like a government attempt to control their children, and an attempt by a political party to indoctrinate their kids.
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By: Happyconservative on September 4, 2009
at 1:05 PM
Whirled,
Now I know why Fox News exists. It exists so it can be the fodder for comedy. It gives Jon Stewart more material for his fantastically funny commentary.
Sad to say that the FCC does not have fact checking results on the screens for ALL news shows.
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By: Honolulu Sally on September 4, 2009
at 12:21 PM
Another wingnut meme
goes down the drain.
~
Good work Honolulu Sally. And everyone else, thanks for the reports from the ‘front lines’. I’ll be here piling up the ‘ammo’.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on September 4, 2009
at 7:37 AM
I arrived too late to be able to get into the packed meeting at our Town Hall on Wednesday evening. I stayed at the … “event” outside, and this is what it was like:
The pro-reform folks were on the right side of the stairs, the anti-reform folks were on the left. And they’d chant back and forth, sometimes in a call-and-response form — “Yes We Can!” “No You Can’t!” (as opposed to No We Can’t).
On the pro-reform side were men and women, medical students in their white coats, parents and children, black-white-whatever. On the anti-reform side were whites with a majority of men, most of whom were middle-aged and older. The anti-reform side wanted to know where the pro-reform side’s flags were. The anti-reform side at one point started chanting “Get a job! Get a job!”
Every fifteen minutes or so two pickup trucks would drive by and slow down in front of town hall. They had hand-written posters on their sides, saying “Kill Bill” in large letters and the HR number in small letters below. Their horns or course were braying as they’d cruise by.
A Lithuanian man and his American-born wife explained to me that this kind of government take-over was just the kind of thing that started socialism / communism in eastern Europe. He escaped and came to beautiful America in 1948. His wife said that Glenn Beck had written about the problems with government takeover.
The pro-reform side had signs like “We are our brothers’ keepers” and “50 Million AMERICANS uninsured. 18,000 AMERICANS die due to no health insurance annually. We should all be ashamed!!!!! Public Option Now” and “Health care is a Human Right” and “Health Care for Profit Is Sick!”
The anti-reform side had signs like “No government run healthcare. My doctor works for me” and “Evil is powerless, if the good are unafraid — Ronald Reagan” and “Man is not free, unless government is limited — Ronald Reagan” and “Stop the madness — Liberty is under attack.”
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By: Susan in CT on September 4, 2009
at 7:14 AM
Desperation causes people to take some desperate measures. The newest version of the “tea baggers” the “indoctrinators” …. are simply more of the same people we have seen since Obama trounced M C Cain. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1182613/post_election_analysis_why_barack_obama.html?cat=9
You don’t have to look any further than post election analysis to understand these people and what is motivating these antics.
In simple terms the republicans message and tactics didn’t work and as demographics suggest, won’t be working for a decade or so. The typical republican is a white male, over 50 , lives in the burbs or rural, is college educated, has at least 1 year of military service, married, Christian and attends church weekly, and until recently their wives voted the same. http://dnc.kgnu.org/2008/08/04/commentary-declining-republican-demographics/
For the last 20 years this demographic was enough to eek out a couple of national elections, not anymore. Why? 1. cities are making a comeback. The population of cities are increasing drastically. Repubs (conservatives) don’t live in cities. 2. It is predicted by 2020-40 Caucasians will be the minority race in the United States. 3. Christian conservatives (18-35) have become increasingly disenchanted with the republican party. Instead of being single issue voters (abortion) they have become interested in other areas of the Christian teachings and are no longer focusing on JUST abortion, but are now looking at the environment, feeding the poor, homeless etc. Also older Christians are looking at the last decade or so and realizing when the repubs were in power they failed to do anything about their HOT issue (abortion) and failed miserably in the Terry Schiavo case. On the other hand, democrats start with about 20 million more registered voters, our demographic is growing, and we have recently inched ahead in fund raising.
The republican party is desperate, their followers scared witless.. They look around a see an unfamiliar neighborhood. They turn on the TV and see a president that does not resemble themselves. THEIR America is slipping away… And they are mad as hell …. What we are seeing now are cornered rats. They will stoop to the lowest forms to hold on to what they perceive as theirs, and we ain’t seen nothing yet! They are just that desperate.
Two things give me satisfaction as I look at poll numbers. 1. Obama’s losses are NOT the repubs gains…. 2. 52 -57 percent of the country think democrats will move us in the right direction, when you look deeper the numbers are even more promising. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/20/cnn-poll-obama-moving-us-in-right-direction/
Soooooo keep the faith my fellow pie eaters….. just when it seems the world has turned upside down look again. We are still strong and proud, we just need to get LOUD.
I know I have repeated this at nauseam but ignore the shiny objects in the room… It is a political ploy to accomplish 2 things. 1. take your eye off of the healthcare debate that we are now winning 2. make the objects in the mirror appear closer then they are…. for example …. ALLLLLLL good American parents are calling the schools and pulling their kids out of class when obama speaks. It’s not true.
namaste’
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By: lori on September 4, 2009
at 6:05 AM
Yer welcome, VK Yama!
PalinShutUp, you go girl!
Rah Rah Ree!
Kick ’em in the Knee!
Rah Rah Rass!
Kick ’em in the Other Knee!
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By: Honolulu Sally on September 4, 2009
at 1:14 AM
us (today at our health care reform event)
‘what do we want?
health care!
when do we want it?
NOW!’
them:
‘Obama is a socialist with a hitler mustache’
me (chuckling):
‘If Obama was hitler you’d be worshiping him’
them:
silence.
us:
‘Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: Dont give up the fight!’
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By: PalinShutUp on September 4, 2009
at 12:38 AM
Honolulu Sally,
I’m glad I logged in before turning in. I was so bogged down from shock and dismay at how much lower people could go, I’m referring to all the hysteria over the announcement of Obama’s address to students. And I thought shrieking about wanting “their” America back was a low point…
Your previous post and your offering (the Virginia speech) have pulled me back from the brink. Thank you.
I was starting to succumb to a fear myself — that crazy and stupid MUST be some highly contagious, flesh and brain eating virus. I’m not afraid to go outside anymore.
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By: VK Yama on September 4, 2009
at 12:15 AM
Whirled, if this doesn’t work, can you somehow find and post Obama’s last campaign speech in Virginia? I needed this – all the negativity, hate, and lies being generated got me feeling down.
Here’s a picker upper (and we WON!)
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By: Honolulu Sally on September 4, 2009
at 12:01 AM
Susan in CT, I so agree with you. With all the fearmongering going on, no deep thinking is going on about that aspect of the debate. When was the last time anybody with insurance has been free to just go the his or her doctor of choice? Raise your hand and you will be outnumbered by the rest of us that have to deal with PPOs, HMOs, and so on. The insurance industry is already choosing our doctors. It just want to keep the monopoly of imposing its will on us, forever. The insanity of it all is hard to take sometime. I could not believe it, when our dental insurance company asked my husband’s dentist to justify why he needed a crown. Yes, I said, my husband should have made his dentist say how he just woke up one morning, and decided, jeez, today, I feel like sauntering into my dentist office, and sit in his chair and get a shot of novocaine and get a drill into my mouth and get me some fun! How asinine to waste people’s time on questions like that? That is what is making the system expensive, all the crap they are heaping on doctors. Justify this and justify that, this is not covered and that is. It used to be much simpler. Let us get back to basics. And people in the crowds repeating things they hear other people say without thinking them through, just look like sheep to me.
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By: Easier on September 3, 2009
at 11:38 PM
vgman, the avatar changes automatically in all my posts as soon as I change it as long as I’m logged in. Did you notice when Werner and Greytdog updated theirs? I kind of wish it didn’t, but I got used to that on FB, as it does the same thing there.
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By: Poolman on September 3, 2009
at 11:33 PM
I believe you can fix stupid. But stupid needs to want to be fixed. Crazy….. well, that’s a harder battle.
So, is this like a Venn diagram (remember those from grade school?) where different circles were of certain types, and they overlapped if there were a commonality within some circles?
Seems to me, there would be a circle of racists who just hate Obama because he is black or of mixed race.
Then, some who are just died in the wool Republicans.
Some are Christian (or Scientologist) believers who think Obama is bad because of his non Christian beliefs (pro-choice, Muslim) or his non-believing in man living alongside dinosaurs.
Some just don’t believe in politicians or government of any color, size, or smell.
Some are the big boys or girls with corporate interests to protect.
Some are still pissed off that Hillary and/or Palin lost.
Some don’t have a tv remote and so their tv is stuck on Fox News Channel day in and day out.
All these circles have some people with common elements in all of the above, and overlap with other circles, and the center of them is the worst bunch of all.
Those are the ones that aren’t necessarily stupid or crazy. They are downright scary, like the Ku Klux Klan.
The good news is, as Helen mentioned in this post, back in her childhood, there were 5 million Ku Klux Klan members, and now there are 5,000.
America’s righteous, mean, narrow-minded, supremist led pointy heads are shrinking. There will be less of them to poison the stupid and crazies.
There is hope for the stupid and the crazies if their numbers keep shrinking because their hearts and brains start growing.
I do still hope, and pray.
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By: Honolulu Sally on September 3, 2009
at 11:32 PM
(warning: I am so spitting mad about this issue I am not responsible for typos.)
Helen,
I am waiting with bated breath to hear what you have to say about all the opposition to Obama addressing our school children on Sept. 8th. This would be laughable (that so many parents are demanding that their children not be exposed) but the level of xenophobia it reveals is just heartbreaking.
Sherri,
I agree with you completely with one exception: your “WTF” comment is too gentle….
In Kern County (central Calif.) Superintendents have sent out a memo to teachers that essentially discourages them from using class time to show this address. Holy Crap on a Cracker! All this whining about Obama being un-American. If this isn’t Anti-American, I don’t know what is.
It profoundly concerns me that there IS a ‘concern’ that the President wants to give a back to school message. It seems logical, and I dare say even appropriate, that a president with school age children of his own shows interest in education.
What are ‘they’ afraid of ?! (That a special frequency, only heard by minors, will be used to deliver a secret message none of us can hear??)
Kids SHOULD be inspired by their president. You can still disagree with his policies. I got an idea: How about modeling some adult behavior? Even if you disagree with something at the very least there can be engagement (rather than just fear based avoidance.) In class teachers could ASK engaging questions after the address. TALK about it — and LISTEN to each other. Mediate and foster mutual respect for differing opinions.
When did we become a nation full of whiners and screamers the SECOND we disagree with something? When did critical analysis become a bad thing and something to be feared!?
This could be a fabulous opportunity to for “Synergy.” How powerful it would be to model critical thinking for our youth rather than rant like a village idiot?
To all those concerned about this being a waste of class time, you have NOT been paying attention to how our education system has changed in the last 8 years.
Because of the overly high priority put on standardized testing (as per NCLB) our education system routinely produces students with permanent deficits to their problem solving skills. (Evidently it was contagious because many of them gave it to their parents.)
How many parents are aware of the days and days taken used every school year to prepare for these standardize tests. The once rich, complex and interesting lessons found 9 or 10 years ago in classrooms have been replaced with dull, fact laden, curriculum that has been purposefully designed to emulate the format of standardized test (designed to raise the scores, but these lessons do NOT necessarily make the student smarter and they certainly don’t foster any analytical thinking skills.)
Fill in a bubble?— yup, they can do that. But figure out change for $16.28 if you hand them a twenty, a one, and three pennies when the register already showed what the change would be for a twenty? Not so much. Defend an opinion? Can’t do it. (and shrieking at a town hall meeting doesn’t count)
We have an articulate, calm, president who wants to address school children and wish them well. Grown ups can lead by example and show their children that you can disagree and you can be mature enough to listen, especially if a person is wishing you well.
True, I haven’t seen an advanced copy of his address so I am writing with the naive assumption that his address will be along the lines of a ‘work hard, stay in school, have a nice school year’ message. If that’s indoctrination, then bring it on!
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By: VK Yama on September 3, 2009
at 11:07 PM
Poolman,
Noticed your new avatar. My question is how did you get it to change in all of your previous posts?
Maybe it’s a stupid question or maybe I’m talking with my mouth full of pie.
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By: vgman on September 3, 2009
at 10:33 PM
I can’t believe some schools are not airing the president’s talk to the school kids. Some are afraid their kids will be “brainwashed”. Like some curriculum isn’t questionable. A lot of white-washed history books I had to study come to mind.
We will let them sit in front of a TV or computer all day without concern. We let them go to movies with questionable themes. But let an intelligent and well-spoken leader of our nation with two grade school kids of his own determine to talk to them about positive things and they freak.
You can’t fix stupid. I hope crazy isn’t winning. Crazy is getting its share of media coverage. It sure is an uphill battle trying to repair this nation! God help us.
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By: Poolman on September 3, 2009
at 9:50 PM
Rochester, NY has a dropout rate of 61% You read that right…only 39% of our students are graduating from HS. That statistic does not include anyone who drops out prior to 11th grade — and there are MANY, but they become non-statistics.
Unfortunately, Rochester is not unusual. That’s the going dropout rate for most large cities. 6.2 million 11th-12th graders dropped out of high school in 2007 in the United States. I shake in my shoes when I wonder what’s going to happen to our country 20 years down the road when the majority of American adults are high school dropouts.
I don’t care how many disagreements or differences one has with President Obama, we ought to jumping for joy and thanking the heavens that he is addressing the dropout crisis in this country and encouraging kids to finish high school.
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By: Sherri Δ on September 3, 2009
at 9:21 PM
Hey Mike T. How have you been since High School? Funny to find you here. You look good.
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By: Victoria in Sunset on September 3, 2009
at 9:18 PM
I think Rush offed Helen.
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By: Mike T. on September 3, 2009
at 9:09 PM
It’s insane, Sherri. Nobody acted this way when Reagan and GHW Bush did the same damn thing.
(*smacking head on desk*)
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By: Δ Tine on September 3, 2009
at 8:52 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20090903/pl_ynews/ynews_pl888_1
I’m sure you’ve all already seen the above news link re: President Obama’s direct address to school children next Tuesday. In the 6-12 building where I teach, students have already been opted out…parents are calling to say their child(ren) are not to listen to the President speak.
We’re airing the speech live in many classrooms, but the students who have been opted out have to leave the class for an alternate activity, and all other students have to be given the option of going to the gym instead.
WTF?!? How do you teach a kid to value diversity and disagree with others respectfully when their parents won’t even let them listen to the president tell them it’s important to finish school and to do their best!?!
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By: Sherri Δ on September 3, 2009
at 8:31 PM
I like your sense of humor, happyconservative. (Heard that joke before, and I still laugh at it. 🙂 )
Now that the kiddies are in bed, I’m pouring that glass o’ vino for real. Chardonnay, some popcorn, and the news are up next for me tonight.
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By: Δ Tine on September 3, 2009
at 7:47 PM
State Medicaid Fraud Control Units (MFCU)
Annual Report
Fiscal Year 2008
“This report covers Federal fiscal year (FY) 2008, commencing October 1, 2007, and ending September 30, 2008… …In FY 2008, MFCUs recovered more than $1.3 billion in court-ordered restitution, fines, civil settlements, and penalties. They also obtained 1,314 convictions. MFCUs reported a total of 971 instances in which civil settlements and/or judgments were achieved…”
Click to access mfcu_2008.pdf
These are just the ones that were caught.
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By: Poolman on September 3, 2009
at 7:36 PM
Cute duck-joke. And it kind of reminds me of one “definition” of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The duck got away with his joke, but he still got the same response.
Tangentially, it seems like the insurance companies are trying to get us to do the same thing over and over, and we’re not going to get any different (read: better) results.
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By: Susan in CT on September 3, 2009
at 7:16 PM
“But, how is that going to change if the government takes over? Even now, there are many doctors who don’t take medicare or other government programs.”
Well, FWIW, it’s claimed that this WON’T happen under the new reforms. And the point I was making was that people are being scared by a threat of something that already exists.
(Kind of along the lines of “get your government hands off my Medicare.”)
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By: Susan in CT on September 3, 2009
at 7:12 PM
Susan in CT,
We’ve all experience that. It’s a bummer. But, how is that going to change if the government takes over? Even now, there are many doctors who don’t take medicare or other government programs.
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By: happyconservative on September 3, 2009
at 7:02 PM
Here’s a joke for everyone. You can find it at JokeOfTheDay.com
A duck walks into a bar and asks: “Got any Bread?”
Barman says: “No.”
Duck says: “Got any bread?”
Barman says: “No.”
Duck says: “Got any bread?”
Barman says: “No, we have no bread.”
Duck says: “Got any bread?”
Barman says: “No, we haven’t got any bread!”
Duck says: “Got any bread?”
Barman says: “No, are you deaf?! We haven’t got any bread, and if you ask me again and I’ll nail your dang beak to the bar you irritating dang duck!”
Duck says: “Got any nails?”
Barman says: “No”
Duck says: “Got any bread?
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By: happyconservative on September 3, 2009
at 7:00 PM
I hear what you are all saying about Pfizer. You can say the same or worse about Madoff. Those people should be in jail. But, are you implying that all corporate executives are corrupt in some way? I would have to disagree with you. Most of the high level executives that I have met are good people. Granted, there are some bad apples out there, as there are in any demographic group. You can take Don Carty who used to run AMR as an example. But, by and large, you just can’t get to that level without having a certain amount of integrity. You get weeded out if you don’t, because people have to trust you in order to do business with you.
Anyway, before I go off on rant, no group is either all good or all bad, no matter how you slice, dice, or label them.
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By: happyconservative on September 3, 2009
at 6:43 PM
Anne refers to the Newsweek story and “the five biggest lies in the health care debate…”
What I don’t get is why people scream that The Government will choose your doctor for you!
My goodness, the insurance companies do that NOW.
I really liked my dermatologist, but had to change because my insurance plan dropped that practice. And how many times have you tried to make an appointment with a new practice only to be told “sorry, we’re not on that insurance plan ?”
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By: Susan in CT on September 3, 2009
at 6:36 PM
I’ll have a glass of port if you’ve got one!
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By: happyconservative on September 3, 2009
at 6:22 PM
Palin,
I have to agree with you. I expected her to be a little tougher.
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By: happyconservative on September 3, 2009
at 6:17 PM
More culprits involved in for profit HC:
“The Gulf War veteran and former Pfizer sales representative will earn more than $51.5 million as a result of his whistleblower lawsuit against the world’s biggest drugmaker and the record penalty the company must pay the U.S. government for its massive marketing transgressions.”
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Pfizer-whistleblowers-ordeal-rb-1977940162.html?x=0&.v=1
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By: Poolman on September 3, 2009
at 6:05 PM
kitkat, medicare for all is what HR 676 single-payer is all about. Everyone I have talked to on Medicare love it. The only difficulty right now is finding doctors that honor it. The docs are not being paid well or enough for it and there is too much paperwork involved, I heard. Additionally, there is a lot of corruption and redundant claims by hospitals and doctors that are bankrupting the system. That is part of why it is running out of money. Part of HR 676 addresses these issues with electronic (digital) records and oversight into fraud. With these safeguards in place, Medicare for all would be the best and most cost efficient solution. If we could keep the greedies for stealing from the pot. It gets the insurance companies out of our healthcare, which is what they are fighting tooth, nail, and claw to keep from happening.
I will have a beer, you guys can have the wine. My wife loves Merlot. Her favorite is a very inexpensive one. Sutterhome is the brand. She has had the expensive and exotic, but prefers the Sutterhome over all the rest. Enjoy!
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By: Poolman on September 3, 2009
at 5:33 PM
Just talked to my Mom last night about how Medicare has been so good paying for her cancer treatments. She has had only a few small out of pocket expenses (other than the fact that she is now in the donut hole for prescriptions). She is concerned about Medicare running out of money. If we expand medicare to everyone, wouldn’t that help with the costs as those who aren’t using the benefit would help pay for those like my mom who are using it? I really like that idea or the single payer. “Keep it simple, stupid”, should be Congress’ mantra.
Just making pasta for dinner — so will have a nice Merlot with you all. 🙂
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By: kitkat on September 3, 2009
at 5:02 PM
@ SouthPaw
slinky ballpoint pen with the big pink daisy on top, with perfumed ink
*************************
I had the exact pen in junior high school LOL!
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By: Patti Springfield on September 3, 2009
at 1:50 PM
Oh great, now I want wine.
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By: Stacey on September 3, 2009
at 1:29 PM
Here’s a zen moment from a friend:
If you can start the day without caffeine,
If you can always be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles,
If you can eat the same food every day and be grateful for it,
If you can understand when your loved ones are too busy to give you any
time,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment ,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
…Then You Are Probably The Family Dog!
And you thought I was going to get all spiritual.
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By: Honolulu Sally on September 3, 2009
at 1:25 PM
Profit Before Patient
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html
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By: PalinShutUp on September 3, 2009
at 1:11 PM
Cost of the war in Iraq about $255 million per day, or a little less than $1.8 billion a week
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15377059/
“The health insurance industry is pulling out all the stops to kill meaningful reform. Their main objective is to kill the crucial public insurance option and to force all of us to buy overpriced policies from them. Their greed knows no bounds. We must not let them win”
“The Health Insurance Industry today is based on Wall Street greed.”
Wendell Potter, former head of public relations for CIGNA-turned whistleblower after 20-years of knowing what went on in the insurance suites
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By: PalinShutUp on September 3, 2009
at 1:08 PM
Sarah Palin Pens Her Way to Infirmary (sic)
I have this image in my mind: Snow Flake sitting at a table with her spiral notebook in front of her, you know the kind with the extra wide lines, tongue hanging out of corner of mouth as in deep thought, her slinky ballpoint pen with the big pink daisy on top, of course with perfumed ink, hard at work on her Book. Of course behind her is Murdock, hand rubbing his chin, Coulter in the middle, hands on her boney man-hips and Beck arms accross chest saying “Comeon Sarah, we know you can do it…just give us one complete sentence, will ya?
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By: SouthPaw on September 3, 2009
at 12:58 PM
Girls! time for a new post!
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By: Lynn on September 3, 2009
at 12:42 PM
Wine? Did someone say wine? Make mine a red zinfandel or a New Zealand sauvignon blanc. But, I did find an exquisite port while in Hawai’i (can’t remember the name, sadly). Maybe it was the enchantment of the patio lounge at the Moana Surfider in Waikiki. I don’t know. But, I swore it had macademia nut undertones. Either way, I’m with Auntie Jean and Δ Tine!!
Cheers to the unsung heroes. Thank God for them!
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By: OceanGypsi on September 3, 2009
at 12:09 PM
Jean: Yes indeed, I will raise a glass (make mine Bordeaux) to the unsung heroes of research. Salut!
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By: Δ Tine on September 3, 2009
at 9:05 AM
I’m with Anne on Levi. Although I still loathe Sarah Palin as a politician, I will reserve judgement of her as a mother.
I really wish the democrats would have sold this entire thing as a expansion of medicare to cover more people – would have been much harder to make up crap about since everyone is familar with it.
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By: Stacey on September 3, 2009
at 8:57 AM
Also in that Newsweek, the five biggest lies in the health care debate, how they originated and why they’re wrong.
You’ll have no choise in what health benefits you receive.
No chemo for older medicare patients.
Illegal imigrants will bet free health insurance.
Death panels will decide who lives.
The governemtn will set doctor’s wages.
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By: Anne on September 3, 2009
at 7:48 AM
Read a great editorial in Newsweek yesterday about Ted Kennedy:
“To cast him in a sentimental warm light (the left) or to demonize him (the right) are equally inadequate to capturing his character…Two lessons from Kenndy’s life seem worth mulling. The first is that the contradictions of his character–the rake who cared about the poor and dispossessed–should remind us that reflxively caricaturing and criticizing politicans is unproductive. On close inspection, most public figures are pretty much like us..The seocnd lesson is about the utility of compromise. Kennedy essentially embodies liberal orthodoxy, but he was not a purist. He believed in getting things done and never let the perfect be the enemy of the good.” Well said.
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By: Anne on September 3, 2009
at 7:44 AM
I heard about the Vanity Fair article this morning. Though I’d love to take everything Levi Johnston said at face value, I tend to think he’s motived by self-interest. I imagine the true story lies somewhere in between his version and Palin’s version.
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By: Anne on September 3, 2009
at 7:38 AM
Hi gang and Tine,
You might be interested in this, Tine. As a science editor, you would know probably better than anyone what precise, exacting details are required in science writing.
Recently there was a brief report even on the national news about a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine entitled “”Mortality Results from a Randomized Prostate-Cancer Screening Trial.” If you would like a copy of the NEJM article, go to: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/360/13/1310.pdf.
For a number of years, I have been involved with this long-range study, PLCO (Prostate, Lung, Colon, Ovarian) being carried out through a program of the National Cancer Institute. Here in Hawaii, it is ongoing at Straub Hospital in Honolulu through the auspices of The Pacific Health Institute. PLCO maintains screening centers at nine other universities and health centers across the country, including Washington, DC; Michigan, Wisconsin, Alabama, Colorado, Minnesota, Pittsburg, PA; Idaho and Missouri.
Here’s how the study goes. Men and women, except for the prostate study, were screened for these types of cancer. There were 76,693 men involved in the prostate study. Blood tests, specific physical exams, X-rays, etc.
The participants were all volunteers in certain age groups. The tests were free. We all know that these tests are expensive. The results were sent to the participant’s personal doctor so he could have a baseline for ongoing future health care. Further, a very lengthy annual questionnaire is required regarding diet, personal habits, etc. Considering the racial and ethnic mix here in Hawaii, the data is very useful in factoring in heredity.
You can only imagine the enormous amount of data to be gathered and analyzed. The results can be fairly reliable since there is not a pharmaceutical company or otherwise pressure group involved with a KNOWINGLY biased or vested interest in the outcome. This study is about as close as you can come to pure applied science.
There are innumerable doctors, nurses, technicians, statisticians, administrative personnel and on and on involved with this enormous undertaking. These are what I consider unsung heroes who have dedicated years and years of their lives to unlocking the secrets of these dreaded diseased in order to find treatments and cures. I salute all of them!!!!!
I’ll raise a glass of White Zin to these fine people. Would you care to join me, Tine?
Does this have anything to do with the Health Care debate? You bet it does!!!!
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on September 3, 2009
at 1:19 AM
she does not support allowing abortions for victims of rape and incest
she said “I think that a culture of life is best for America”
and Americans watched stunned and in shock and ran to the voting polls
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By: PalinShutUp on September 2, 2009
at 8:41 PM
Anonymous September 2, 2009
at 6:22 PM, I don’t know who you post for but personally I dont have a problem with spector, dont agree with everything he does but I dont agree with Obama 100% of the time either
Palin is a different animal
‘I know that governor Palin quit. What’s your point?’
that she’s a quitter when the going gets tough
‘If you had faced the firestorm of false accusations and unjustified probes that she had, could you have stood up to it?’
when you are in politics your life is an open book, I have a particular friend who could be mayor right now and wont, despite the fact that she is a great leader and has been asked by several people in office to, but she knows once you are there anyone can look into your life with a magnifying glass
when you step on to that frying pan you have to be ready to be scrutinized this is not russia or Cuba, this is NOT a dictatorship, Palin worked FOR THE PEOPLE
did you forget?
Anonymous on September 2, 2009
at 6:33 PM, I have a long list of reasons why I dont like her but my primary one was that she was poised to take away my rights as a woman to my body and wanted to force her religious beliefs on me
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By: PalinShutUp on September 2, 2009
at 8:24 PM
happyconservative, good of you to drop back in. Palin has been topic of discussion here for some time. A lot of Alaskans post here and at the various Alaskan bloggers’ sites. We get the inside skinny on her from the locals. Now Levi Johnson has done an interview with Vanity Fair and it paints a different picture of her, and not very positive. She left the state of Alaska in a mess and they had to have a special session to fix some of her mishaps. Here is some proof regarding her antics and lack of credibility from a conservative source:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/sarah-palin/statements/
I have checked all sources on this healthcare debate and have read the proposed bills. HR 3200, in it’s various forms is merely health insurance reform. I support a single-payer system, which is not what is on the table yet. HR 676 is a smart bill, 30 pages long, and provides for funding and essentially provides medicare for all. It is supposed to be introduced to the Floor of the House this session. That would be my choice for health reform. The best we could hope for from HR 3200 is a public option. If we get that, then it will eventually evolve to single-payer.
With the greed and big bucks made and being spent by health insurance to maintain the status quo, it is doubtful we will see true reform. They have instigated the misinformation campaigns and spread the death panel and government-controlled scare, along with the rationing fears. They are the ones that ration care now and deny coverage. They make a lot of money from controlling the industry. They have paid many politicians in both camps to vote in favor of them keeping us under their thumb. There are so many links and articles supporting this, I think even some in this thread.
There are wackos on both sides of the issue. What about Betsy McCaughey? I saw her on the Daily Show and she just proved her ignorance over and over. It was an extended interview and she lost her job right after that. For the left, some unions were employed to counter the bussed in protesters supported by Freedom Works and other “grassroots” movements with large corporate backers. Tit for tat.
http://mediamatters.org/research/200908060014
So in short, I support HR 676. It was written in 2003 and not in layereze. Makes sense and many here support it. Many doctors and nurses are infavor of it also.
But more importantly, I think we need to clean house in the government. Lobbies and big business craft our legislation and we are not represented. We need to repeal the Patriot Act and audit the Fed. There is legislation crafted to do just that and I support it. I have left links everywhere to get the word out. A good source to find the proposed legislation and follow our representatives and the money trail is at:
http://www.opencongress.org
Happy hunting!
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By: Poolman on September 2, 2009
at 8:09 PM
But still…Happy is polite. I give her the benefit of the doubt that she means well.
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By: Donna on September 2, 2009
at 7:41 PM
oh ye gads!
Someone want to point happyconservative to the opinions of Alaskans – of all political stripes- a few threads back regarding Sarah Palin?
happyc- The ex-ghastly gov held 2 elected positions. NOT many… 2.
Mayor of Wasilla and Governor of Alaska- period.
She quit a job she got as a political favor from then Governor Murkowski and parlayed her phony( now we know just how phony) ethics stance into a run for the governor. If Murk hadn’t been quite such a slime himself, we might have seen hers sooner.
If you talk about Alaska , forget the R & D thingy…over half of the registered voters here are non-partisan or undeclared. And most of the D’s here (barely over 70k) are more like the old moderate republicans from Outside…
You want to like SP- go ahead but get straight on the basics…
SP was mayor of a podunk town- even by our AK standards. We are made up of podunk towns… some more podunky than others.
She quit a state job she didn’t like … and she quit the Office of the Governor. We don’t like quitters.
We fell for the horse pucky… sounds like you have too. Good luck- it always ends badly with her…
Helen- your soiree is still the nicest in town here. Though I don’t stop by often these days. thank you -and Margaret- for having us all in..
(hey Grandma Katie! Greyt!)
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By: alaskapi on September 2, 2009
at 7:32 PM
Everyone,
I’m new to this blogging thing. I just created my ID last night, so I’m still learning all the simple things like how to type my screen name in the “Name” field. (picture me slapping myself on the forehead at this point) Anyway, I wanted to claim the “Anonymous” posts starting with my response to Poolman on September 2, 2009
at 6:22 PM up to my response to Palin at 6:41. Just so you’ll no. If you have any responses to those posts, you can direct them at me.
You may laugh at will . . . or me, which ever you prefer.
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By: happyconservative on September 2, 2009
at 6:58 PM
Anonymous,
Please give yourself a name, or at least a number.
To paraphrase the Dalai Lama:
When asked by an audience member, “What happens to us when we die?”, the Dalai Lama responded, “In a sense, you cease to exist.”
So, when Palin quit, in a sense, she was a quitter.
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By: Honolulu Sally on September 2, 2009
at 6:57 PM
lori,
You’re missing one tiny fact. Everybody knows who won. What’s your point?
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By: happyconservative on September 2, 2009
at 6:52 PM
Palin,
”
there is a big difference between socializing with folks of opposing political views, which I do and often and listen and realize we have much more in common than not . . ”
Ditto
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By: Anonymous on September 2, 2009
at 6:41 PM
Tine,
Back atcha! We’ve waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more on Social Security than we ever have on the war. Entitlements are killing us. So are all the duplicate programs.
And, I’ll debate the legitimacy of the war with you all day; both the war in Iraq and the Global War on Terror.
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By: Anonymous on September 2, 2009
at 6:38 PM
PalinShutUp,
I’m interested in hearing your views on Governor Palin. When she was first chosen as McCain’s running mate, I dug some articles about her, and she pretty good to me. I thought her view points were solidly conservative. I would be interested to hear why you think differently.
Thanks.
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By: Anonymous on September 2, 2009
at 6:33 PM
Greytdog,
Sound advice. Thanks. Dad has a living will. A Terry Schiavo situation is exactly what we want to avoid. It’s also good to know that veteran’s groups are standing up for those who have served us so well.
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By: Anonymous on September 2, 2009
at 6:29 PM
Grandma Katie…So nice to see you’re OK. I was starting to get worried about you. The fires in Palos Verdes are a little closer to you, but if the wind picks up who knows what will happen.
Eugene Robinson had a good article in Wasington Post yesterday about our continued building in places where we shouldn’t be building anymore.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/31/AR2009083102910.html
Here in my neck of the woods, we have a builder, Shea Homes that wants to drain precious buffer wetlands to build 130 homes which will further deplete our water supplies not to mention what severe and long term impact these homes will have on the barely surviving wetlands. Seems our City Council doesn’t remember Katrina and what happened in New Orleans.
A group form our neighborhood has been fighting them for some 15 years and it continues to this day. Money talks as you know and they have alot of political influence in thi$ town.
Anyway so glad your hanging there, hopefully trying to keep cool.
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By: thymeCher on September 2, 2009
at 6:27 PM
Poolman,
Thanks. It’s good to know that some people can still exercise their constitutional right to bear arms. Let freedom ring. I know that governor Palin quit. What’s your point? If you had faced the firestorm of false accusations and unjustified probes that she had, could you have stood up to it? And, it wasn’t just her. The attack dogs went after her family, too. And, how do you know how Alaskan’s feel about it? Who’s survey did you look at?
There have been other documented incidents of paid union members showing at town halls to disrupt and harass the attendees. At one of Arlen Spector’s town halls, a man was at the microphone criticizing the health care proposal when another attendee tried to push him out of the way. To Senator Spector’s credit, he personally chastised the attacker and put a stop to the abuse. Whatever else you say about him, Senator Spector tries to be fair man.
As for the lack of resources, run the numbers. You cannot tax enough to support any of the plans in the three health care bills that are now before Congress. Even the Congressional Budget Office says that nationalized health care is not economically viable.
I think the call to challenge yourself goes both ways, Poolman. You’ve got to look below the surface and past the rhetoric. What does the CBO say about the health care legislation (or any other legislation for that matter)? What does the legislation actually say? What are the implications? Also, look at how it’s being handled. In my experience, if some is trying to ram something, anything, through as quickly as health care, their trying to hide something.
Thanks for your feedback, Poolman. I enjoy discussing issues, so you have made me a very happy conservative.
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By: Anonymous on September 2, 2009
at 6:22 PM
Whoa Donna, thanks for the heads up!
her not being a ‘reader’ did not surprise me, what did surprise me was those kids having to take care of themselves and essentially a lazy ass, not the ‘nurturing mother’ she made America think she was, boy what a windbag that one really is
nothing but a shell
the one thing I had respect for was her mothering and now that’s shot to hell as well
of course, they will call him all kinds of names including liar
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/the_levi_johnston_story_unabridged_edition.php
prouder of my avatar every single day
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By: PalinShutUp on September 2, 2009
at 6:18 PM
anyone read about the Vanity Fair article that’s out with the Levi Johnston interview?
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By: Donna on September 2, 2009
at 3:57 PM
ThymeCher- I”m still here, mostlyjust reading not posting.EVeryone seems t o put into words what I th ink only so much better!
I swore I had you email address somewherre but have scrolled through everything and can’t find it.
I hopep the fires don’t come down our way!! Palos VERdes is too close!!
Conservative – why6 don’t you read some of the Alaskans views on Palin. Whatever her title, she is still an idiot.
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By: Grandma Katie on September 2, 2009
at 2:22 PM
LOL you go PSU…. lmaoooo you tickel me…
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By: lori on September 2, 2009
at 1:56 PM
whirled, you are not kidding when you state laughter is the best medicine
thanks for all the great info too
what I post comes across as too harsh most times
because Im a yankee, we werent taught to sugar coat
online it doesn’t translate very well
*shrug*
anyway, just dropping by to urge you all to make it to your nearest Health Insurance Reform Now Event, I am so proud of my buddy’s 78 year old mom, she marched for two hours in the rally waving her two handmade signs demanding the single payer option
In a couple of days it will be our turn
nothing will get done if we just sit back, we CAN make more noise, remember we are the majority
gotta run
oh yea, just finished my down dog 🙂
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By: PalinShutUp on September 2, 2009
at 1:54 PM
Hiya Ocean, your story of your little girl caused a huge smile to come across my face… I have 2
little girls too… 21 and 16…;-) I thank my lucky stars each day for the yellow that has been sent my way…. They truly are heaven sent aren’t they?
namaste’ means many things to many people…. to me it means respect, to all who gather in my “”presents”, if indeed I mean it ,and feel respect…… 😉 It also means peace ….. hello and goodbye….. I am a novice at many things.. LOL one of them being yoga… ( I think giving up the margaritas would help… but not sure and not willing to try..LOL )
I have followed your posts/family and have too found you to be delightful in all ways…. I know that little girl of yours will grow up to know the true meaning of namaste’… Yellow always shines through….. namaste fellow blogger.. 😉
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By: lori on September 2, 2009
at 1:31 PM
Whirled, the rabbi and dog cracked me up too. Reminded me of the time I was belting away on our karaoke machine and the dogs in the neighborhood started howling, much to my husband’s chuckling.
To the Obama haters, i.e. Arizona “preacher” wishing brain cancer, etc., I truly wish them an epiphany of namaste.
I thank all of you here for your namaste-ing, yoga wannabees and all.
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By: Honolulu Sally on September 2, 2009
at 1:01 PM
I remember a world where a dictator and his minions could lie his country into a premeditated war of aggression that would eventually involve the globe.
No, not ‘The Dick’ & his neocons.
As it was: Sept 1 back thru Aug 26, ’39
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on September 2, 2009
at 11:37 AM
Hiya Δ Tine,
To be honest, I start my morning surfing the web (free time permitting) for what my day’s postings will be about; gathering links and quotes to help convey my thoughts on whatever today’s topics may be.
On any given ‘on-line’ day (I don’t do TV), I go to up to 100 individual websites and can scour hundreds of different pages, bookmarking along the way (thousands by now).
I’m a news and politics junkie [admission is the first step to recovery 8)] with a bit of Paul Revere in me. I enjoy finding a news item that hasn’t broken around and getting it to the blogs until it pops into ‘MSM reality’; hours, days, weeks (or more) later.
People who know me call me Israel Bissell.
I also enjoy taking ‘the present’ (or near future) and researching from the recent past to the long forgotten history, to help get a better perspective on the difficulties we can avoid, while exploiting successes, for our current situations.
I’m a ‘teacher’ at heart and online I try to get the information to where the conversation and critical thinking is happening; like delivering ammunition to the battle.
With all the brouhaha surrounding US, it helps one’s sanity to try to find ‘the funny’ every once and a while. I come across many amusing things in my travels, always trying to keep things ‘Light’.
~~~
I live by a few basic beliefs:
Laughter is the best medicine…
Education to the great equalizer…
Information is power…
Understanding that is PEACE!
wp
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on September 2, 2009
at 10:46 AM
Hi there, OceanGypsi! (*waving*)
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By: Δ Tine on September 2, 2009
at 9:29 AM
Greytdog, thank you for the “Jayzus” chuckle and the recipe!! I was feeling frisky last night and used macademias. Num Num!!! Happy belated birthday, too!!
Hey, Δ Tine!!
lori, I have noticed that you usually close your posts with “Namaste”. I have a namaste moment that I would like to share with you. This weekend, I decided it was time to stop dickin’ around. I’ll be 3gr8 next month. I need to be more aggressive with my exercise routine and start yoga again. On Sunday, I burst out the DVDs and my mat. I did it for 30 minutes before I had to quit. He was kickin’ my butt. Later that afternoon, I came out of the kitchen to find my daughter (6) on my mat, watching the DVD, and doing the yoga moves better than I. When she finished, she turned to me and said, “Namaste”. I took several pictures. I will upload them to my blog when I get a chance.
Happy Wednesday to ALL!!!!!
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By: OceanGypsi on September 2, 2009
at 9:25 AM
Where do you find this stuff, Peas? Hilarious. 🙂
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By: Δ Tine on September 2, 2009
at 9:13 AM
Quick laugh for the M&H crowd:
‘The Rabbi and the Pooch’
8) ~ Δ ~ PEACE
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on September 2, 2009
at 8:50 AM
Happy conservative, there is one tiny little fact you seem to ignore when you discuss the angry mobs disrupting the town hall meetings.
The democrats who now control the House, Senate and White House were ELECTED by the people of the United States. They did not get there by some random coup staged by the Democrat party they were sent to Washington because MOST of the people in this country wanted them there and agreed with their politics!
The angry mobs side LOST! When I hear conservative talk about taking back their government…. you will have the chance… it’s called an election for heavens sake. Get out there and work hard to elect the person you want to represent you instead of flinging tea bags and carrying signs with the president of the United States portrayed as a Nazi and joining malitia groups!
As for Palin having a D or an R after her name…. I have to admit I have never voted for a Repub in my life, and never missed an election in my life. I have already told my husband (who is a registered repug… yes we have a mixed marriage ;-)) I wouldn’t vote for him. I am THAT partisan…..HOWEVER, if Palin was my only D candidate I think I MIGHT have to consider not voting in that election. That woman is just kukoo for cocoa puffs crazy!
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By: lori on September 2, 2009
at 4:59 AM
Takeover of the healthcare industry. . . hmmm. Strange, but my doctors, who support the public option, aren’t concerned about any takeover. And considering they are the ‘frontline’, I’ll pay attention to their opinions on this rather than to such silly “boo!” tactics as you’ve presented. What’s next? (tapping chin with finger) Oh right: let’s see, all those poor unwashed uninsured welfare queens will be having babies at the taxpayers’ cost and/or abortions and we’re all going to hell because Jayzus hates THOSE people
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By: Greytdog on September 1, 2009
at 10:26 PM
I too long for the America I remember as a child, Margaret.
You’re trying to remember an America with a child’s mind. Do you actually believe that a takeover of the healthcare industry will make things better? Social Security is going broke and don’t try to blame that on anyone but you dimocrats. Medicare, the same. You all can’t even run the Post Office or Amtrak. Grow up and support yourself and as many charities that you care to.
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By: Jazzrockfusion on September 1, 2009
at 9:50 PM
Fred: Why yes, I do drink. (hic!) What’s yer point? 😉
Happyconservative: Speaking of happy, thanks for the giggles. Here’s my favorite line…. “It started getting out of hand when the Democrats took over the House and the Senate, and it has just gotten worse since the ’08 elections.” Oh really now. So…nothing your spendthrift neocon buddy GWB did before 2006 had *anything* to do with the deficit? Cutting taxes whilst launching a fraudulent trillion-dollar war doesn’t count? You need a different adjective in your screen name, my friend. “Blind” or “crazy” would serve quite well.
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By: Δ Tine on September 1, 2009
at 8:57 PM
And I’m supposed to teach my 5th graders to think critically, listen to others and grow up to be productive citizens–
It’s a little scary in light of everything posted above.
But…..a social contract is a contract. No matter how messy it is.
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By: vgman on September 1, 2009
at 8:26 PM
Happy Conservative writes: “My father is 74 years old. He has already made up his mind about how to handle end-of-life situations, and made his wishes clear to all of us. What ever he decides is fine with me, but I don’t want the government pressuring him one way or the other.”
I am very glad your father has made his wishes clear. Get them in writing. Otherwise you might be facing a Terry Schiavo situation.
And BTW, both IAVA and Vietnam Vets and the VFW have denounced the scare tactics being used against vets concerning living wills and final directives. We actually have that booklet here – and it contains excellent information PLUS the questions it asks are ones that all families should be asking and discussing.
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By: Greytdog on September 1, 2009
at 8:13 PM
happyconservative, I think you wandered off trail. You don’t even sound happy. Let me just say, all your points have been hashed and rehashed here before. Facts are stubborn things. I’m sorry you did not get your candidate elected. Try again in 2012.
For someone with a master’s degree, it is not showing. You shouldn’t just put that thing on the wall and shelf that brain, you know. Palin quit her job, remember? One of those facts you’re missing. She is not the governor anymore, and the majority of Alaskans are glad.
One poor quality video from Fox news showing someone YOU claim is an “Obamacare” supporter and then stating “The violence at the town halls is being perpetrated by the left.” is poor deductive reasoning. And we have had several attending show up with weapons here at town halls in Arizona. We even have good video of it, including interviews with those with strapped on firearms and even assault weapons. So believe it, it is one of those stubborn facts.
The lack of resources and funding is the same unsubstantiated rhetoric that come from your source of “news” and relate to the scare tactics that are being spread by the insurance companies that make our health decisions and do the rationing now.
So “hate speech” aside, if you are not going to challege yourself to seek the truth and see things as they are, maybe some of the labels do accurately describe someone similar to yourself.
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By: Poolman on September 1, 2009
at 8:12 PM
Im so glad I was raised by conservatives! It gave me a good idea of REAL conservatism and it isnt Sarah Palin
We have a ‘Health Insurance Reform Now Event’ coming up, I have a box of feather boas and a some trinket jewelry….maybe I can convince my friends to dress-up as Billionaires for Wealthcare 😀
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By: PalinShutUp on September 1, 2009
at 8:03 PM
oh, and Happy–I am sure you are well-meaning and you certainly try to be polite. But I believe there are a number of inaccuracies in your post. You might wish to look into the true facts concerning the veterans’ guide, as only one example. As another, you might wish to check on our President’s true voting record as a senator, as well as the significance in Illinois of a “present” vote.
Now, I can tell you with out a shadow of a doubt that I would consider Ms. Palin as unsuitable for public office if she were liberal. Her party affiliation is not the issue.
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By: Donna on September 1, 2009
at 7:56 PM
Did I actually read the words “Orly Taitz” or are my old eyes deceiving me? Now, there’s a topic.
I have been practicing law for 30 years. I have had cases all over the country. Not to brag, but I have the highest professional ratings from the objective services that rank lawyers. And I have seen lawyers of all levels of competence.
I’ve read the filings that the dentist/lawyer/real estate maven files and I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have never EVER seen poorer quality work. The woman is a complete incompetent.
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By: Donna on September 1, 2009
at 7:45 PM
Helen?
Can you hear THAT one??
🙂
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By: Tina on September 1, 2009
at 7:39 PM
I’m not really sure where to begin other than to say that I am continually disappointed by the venomous hate speech I hear from the left. Come on Helen; “illiterate Republicans”? I have a masters degree. An “idiot from Alaska”? She is a female governor, and a woman who has held many elected offices. If she had a “D” next to her name instead of a “R”, she would be hailed as an accomplished woman. How the National Organization of Women have any integrity left when they allowed such vicious and unwarranted attacks, not only on Governor Palin, but on her family as well? Oh, wait! NOW said something about David Letterman’s comment!?!? Wow! One instance out of how many hundreds? And, how is Governor Palin less qualified than a less-than-one term senator who almost always voted “Present”?
The angry citizens who show up at town hall meetings are not mobs. Characterizing them as such is just another attempt by the left to silence the free speech of those who have the gall to disagree with them. It’s just one more example of liberal thuggery. The people who show up at those town hall meetings are angry because their government isn’t listening. People from all walks of life in this country are tired of the spending. It started getting out of hand when the Democrats took over the House and the Senate, and it has just gotten worse since the ’08 elections. The violence at the town halls is being perpetrated by the left. Here’s a link: http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/08/31/obamacare-supporter-elbows-town-haller-face And, by the way, no one has ever showed up at a town hall meeting with a gun strapped to their leg.
I will concede that the “idea” of some type of universal health care coverage isn’t all that bad. I also believe that reforms are needed in our current health care system. But, the way the current administration is going about is disastrous. It will ruin both our economy and our health care.
And, as for “all this crap about killing your grandmother”; in July the administration reinstituted the “End of Life” guide for vets. It contains a survey that seems to steer our veterans toward death. We take that as an example of what the “end of life” counseling will be. My father is 74 years old. He has already made up his mind about how to handle end-of-life situations, and made his wishes clear to all of us. What ever he decides is fine with me, but I don’t want the government pressuring him one way or the other. I’ll tell you another concern we have. There will not be enough resources to support the current health care proposals coming out of Washington. When the system runs out of money and other resources, the elderly in this country will get left out.
So, when you use terms like “idiot” and “illiterate” you sound like an over egoed junior high kid. If you disagree, great! This country was founded by people who disagreed with their government. We should be able to disagree. Comparing me to a Klansman isn’t disagreement or debate. It’s hate speech. If you want to know where the problem lies in this country, look at the words you’re typing into your computer.
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By: happyconservative on September 1, 2009
at 7:26 PM
Poolman, thanks very much for the info about the bill proposing the extension of the Patriot Act (what a name). We should all pass that one along.
And just thinking about that: I probably have posted this before, but if you’re thinking of changing your mobile phone carrier, consider Credo Mobile — they were NOT involved in warrantless wiretaps (like AT&T and Verizon among others), plus part of their earnings goes to good causes (and you can direct them). And nope, I’m not connected to them — just glad to be using a provider that’s on the “right” side.
http://www.credomobile.com/
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By: Susan in CT on September 1, 2009
at 6:04 PM
‘Anonymous you could post as anti-james. Has a nice ring to it.’
LOL
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By: PalinShutUp on September 1, 2009
at 5:32 PM
“The Safe and Secure America Act, H.R. 1467, was introduced on March 12, 2009 by Sen. Lamar Smith (R-TX). The bill proposes a 10-year extension on “roving” wiretap powers and government access to library patron records. These provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act are scheduled to sunset this December. Rather than revise the constitutionally questionable sections, this bill would extend them (and the much contested FISA Amendments) until December 31, 2019.”
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By: Poolman on September 1, 2009
at 4:43 PM
I’m ignoring you. I didn’t even see what you posted. I’m never reading another post of yours again.
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By: Anonymous on September 1, 2009
at 4:31 PM
Yeah Obama’s the Antichrist
Santa Ana, Calif, Orly Taitz court hearing of her case
Go massively and protest there
9/8, 8 AM
Oust the Antichrist jail him for high treason and put him on death row
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By: Geir (Gerhardt) Smith on September 1, 2009
at 4:31 PM
Anonymous you could post as anti-james. Has a nice ring to it.
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By: Poolman on September 1, 2009
at 4:30 PM
Anyone have a good sugar cream pie recipe? Been looking for one for years.
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By: kitkat on September 1, 2009
at 4:28 PM
Damn I am going to have to come with a name to post, that wierd anonymous is trying to negate all that I said. James is a hypocrite, period.
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By: Anonymous on September 1, 2009
at 4:20 PM
You too thymeCher! What kind of a name is that anyway? What kind of fool do you take us for? You think we’re idiots? We’re not! You’re the idiot!
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By: Anonymous on September 1, 2009
at 4:16 PM
thymeCher, that isn’t fair. I can taste that and my stomach is waiting for it. 😀
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By: Poolman on September 1, 2009
at 4:15 PM
Just trying to change the subject before James pulls a Michelle Backmann…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/01/bachmann-we-should-slit-o_n_273809.html
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By: thymeCher on September 1, 2009
at 4:13 PM
And you’re ugly too.
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By: Anonymous on September 1, 2009
at 4:10 PM
Poolman…in the summer my mother used to make Jello chocolate pudding pie with sliced bananas and a dollup of real whip cream on top.
yummo
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By: thymeCher on September 1, 2009
at 4:07 PM
And those long convoluted stories ending with you the big hero, particularly this last one, what kind of fools do you take us for?
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By: Anonymous on September 1, 2009
at 3:58 PM
James, once again, you are acting like a hypocrite. Yes Jean smuggled in olive trees, but you, James, hired illegal aliens on your farm, how does that square with your holier than thou self-image?
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By: Anonymous on September 1, 2009
at 3:52 PM
I am with you, thymeCher!!!
TOO MUCH INFORMATION!!!
(I bet Margaret even hurled on that one)
🙂
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By: Tina on September 1, 2009
at 3:44 PM
Sorry James for me it’s just WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION. This isn’t eHarmony for kripe sakes.
Sorry ’bout the mini spiel, too much smoke & heat here in SoCal, near the fires and my (scrolling) finger is still hurting from the cortisone shot.
Non-the-less M & H thanks for allowing us all onto your porch, no matter what we have to say.
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By: thymeCher on September 1, 2009
at 3:33 PM
Support these bills for Auditting the Fed!
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1207/show
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s604/show
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By: Poolman on September 1, 2009
at 3:32 PM
peach here. Ditto on the vanilla.
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By: Donna on September 1, 2009
at 3:31 PM
I’ll have a large slice of warm blueberry pie with a dallop of vanilla bean on top, please.
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By: Poolman on September 1, 2009
at 3:14 PM
Time for pie.
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By: Sandra on September 1, 2009
at 2:13 PM
there is a big difference between socializing with folks of opposing political views, which I do and often and listen and realize we have much more in common than not
and biting tongue when, as an example hear a bigoted joke
and I never claimed I was passive aggressive, you misread my post
as for chips, we all carry them and I will be the first to admit to them
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By: PalinShutUp on September 1, 2009
at 2:09 PM
PalinShutUp, there is a difference between opposing bigoted comments & picking unnecessary fights. When I am with people I know only from certain social settings or have to work with, I see no reason to start browbeating them because of their beliefs. They believe what they believe, just as you do. Several of my clients are Republican fundamentalist Christians, who, despite our polar differences, are good people. I try to hang onto our similarities rather than neon-lighting the differences. They believe that America is God’s gift to the world while I, quite frankly think if that’s true, God needs a personal shopper. When I am working, I rarely engage in political or theological discussions – we stay on point, focusing on the health and wellbeing of their pets & extended family. I believe if finding common ground rather than painting everyone with a broad brush. When you do that, IMO, you are as guilty of hatred and discrimination as those against who you rant. And darlin’, no one would ever think you were passive aggressive – you have the biggest chip on your shoulder that I’ve ever seen online.
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By: Greytdog on September 1, 2009
at 1:46 PM
gd contrary to you, I did not bite my tongue in FL, whenever I heard bigotted comments I confronted them straight up, the reason those people say what they say is because they think its ok
I dont believe in passive agressivenes, which is probably why you stand by james, I completely get it now
told you I dont care what side of the fence you are on
I do hope you are feeling better and belated bday wishes, thanks for the recipe
james repeats the same thing over and over
and anne posts
‘What can I learn if everyone repeats the same thing?’
exactly 😀
that billionaires for wealthcare link is priceless
must share…
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By: PalinShutUp on September 1, 2009
at 1:14 PM
You, Greytdog, are a saint!
🙂
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By: Fred on September 1, 2009
at 12:35 PM
In honor of September:
Apple-Gingerbread Cobbler
http://bit.ly/ieE7v
Ingredients
* 1 (14-ounce) package gingerbread mix, divided
* 3/4 cup water
* 1/4 cup firmly packed light brown sugar
* 1/2 cup butter, divided
* 1/2 cup chopped pecans
* 2 (21-ounce) cans apple pie filling
* Vanilla ice cream
Preparation
Stir together 2 cups gingerbread mix and 3/4 cup water until smooth; set mixture aside.
Stir together remaining gingerbread mix and brown sugar; cut in 1/4 cup butter until mixture is crumbly. Stir in pecans; set aside.
Combine apple pie filling and remaining 1/4 cup butter in a large saucepan, and cook, stirring often, 5 minutes over medium heat or until thoroughly heated.
Spoon hot apple mixture evenly into a lightly greased 11×7-inch baking dish. Spoon gingerbread mixture evenly over hot apple mixture; sprinkle with pecan mixture.
Bake at 375° for 30 to 35 minutes or until set. Serve cobbler with vanilla ice cream.
PS I’ve often substituted the pecans with hazelnuts and walnuts, but I think most any nuts work. I also found slightly toasting the nuts prior to mixing the topping gives the cobbler additional flavor. Also Tree of Life makes a wonderful all natural organic pie filling that’s not uber sweet.
Enjoy!
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By: Greytdog on September 1, 2009
at 12:29 PM
There is nothing wrong with the fact that sometimes Helen posts a conversation starter and before we know it, it takes on an organic life of its own and all sorts of different topics grow out of the original (com)post.
I have learned alot from the extended threads including knowing when to read and when to scroll. I have also learned that the more a troll gets attention the more likely it is that said troll will keep coming back for more. I know I tend to act like the bossy hall monitor in my reminders about this phenomena, so for those who are sick of my “don’t feed trolls” mantra – scroll away!
Poolman – I hear you about being embarrassed by Arizona and the complete dickishness of certain (internet ordained) pastors, not to mention the gun crazies with their penile extenders strapped on showing up at the President’s town halls. I mean, WTF? As I recall it wasn’t all that long ago that you could be picking pavement out of your face for wearing a friggin anti-Bush T-shirt, fer deity’s sake.
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By: ImaginistaΔ on September 1, 2009
at 12:24 PM
Don’t listen to her…Tine drinks…This place is better off without James!
🙂
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By: Fred on September 1, 2009
at 12:10 PM
I shouldn’t be here. Too many looming deadlines, and the kids are *finally* back in school! Just want to say this, and then I’ll duck back out….
James, you bug the crap out of me. Your posts here *are* rather wordy and repetitive and self-absorbed. (It’s my job to recognize such problems in writing, so I say that with professional confidence in addition to my own personal opinion.)
But I don’t think you’re a troll. (Unlike a certain other person whom I refuse to name ever again.) You’re mostly civil. You consistently try to support your claims. You answer questions.
When I’m annoyed by you, I scroll by your posts. When I’m not, I read them. It’s pretty simple.
I hope you’ll stay. We need other voices here — even annoying ones.
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By: Δ Tine on September 1, 2009
at 12:02 PM
OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HELEN POST SOMETHING NEW BEFORE THESE ASSHATS EAT EACH OTHER!
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By: Harold Palmer on September 1, 2009
at 11:55 AM
Pie is the answer to everything in my book!
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By: Frank on September 1, 2009
at 11:50 AM
We just need some new pie recipes. That would make it all better. 🙂
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By: Sue Fetzer on September 1, 2009
at 11:48 AM
[…] and Helen, a pair of delightful seniors who don’t mind saying what they think. Although this post is a few weeks old, I recommend it to your reading […]
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By: Hat Tip « TNRambler’s Ramblings on September 1, 2009
at 11:24 AM
oh we are starting to cannibalize aren’t we? Seems we are a microcosm of the Democratic Party – shooting ourselves in the foot. So much for civil discourse on M&H’s blog.
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By: Greytdog on September 1, 2009
at 11:05 AM
Sorry to say, I agree with most here. James was too long winded with his comments. So far off topic. This is Margaret and Helen’s Blog. Comments should be about their post. Right??
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By: Carol Bradshaw on September 1, 2009
at 10:51 AM
Good Riddance, James!
You are nothing but a sorry asshat!
See him for what he is folks!!!
I mean it. Really.
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By: Margaret T. on September 1, 2009
at 10:48 AM
Greytdog, I hadn’t read your post before I made my comment a minute ago. Glad to hear it.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery! I love your posts, so I’m enjoying your down time. 🙂
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on September 1, 2009
at 10:38 AM
Frankly, Poolman, I hope the Secret Service or CIA or whoever has a close eye on that ‘pastor’. And the IRS for good measure!
He makes Rev. Wright seem tame.
How anyone can claim to be a man of God and pray for something like that is shameful.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on September 1, 2009
at 10:36 AM
Matthew (or M&H), could you maybe consider creating a new thread occasionally even if a new blog post isn’t ready? Just do a post that says “open thread” and go from there?
When there get to be so many comments (1000+ on this one) the page loads pretty slowly.
Just a suggestion. I’ll keep reading either way. 🙂
Thanks!
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on September 1, 2009
at 10:32 AM
James, I second the thought by Anne. People are free to scroll through your posts if they don’t like them. Me, I enjoy hearing from both sides, when the thoughts are rational. I wish we could all just get along, but that’s only in an ideal world, which we don’t live in. Anyway, I hope you might still stop in from time to time. If not, good luck to you in whatever you do.
Peace to you!
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By: Joni on September 1, 2009
at 10:26 AM
James:
I just read your last post and really hope you don’t leave. Without different opinions this site would be really boring. I’m trying to learn, here. What can I learn if everyone repeats the same thing?
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By: Anne on September 1, 2009
at 10:04 AM
I have been reading this blog for some time and want to express my appreciation for the insights and thoughtfulness of so many of you bloggers here. The healthcare proposals on the table haven’t been easy to decipher and I’ve learned much here.
I am hoping to see patient wellness education become more of a priority in whatever plan is finally passed. Teaching folks about diet, juicing, herbs and natural means of detoxing their bodies would greatly lower the need for costly surgeries and expensive drugs which rarely cure the illness and have debilitating side effects.
There are safe and effective natural remedies to protect ourselves from everything from swine flu, high blood pressure, diabetes, cancers and pretty much any ‘illness’ you can name.
I think of these natural approaches as “God’s Medicine”. Big Pharma looks to nature to see what’s working and then tries to re-create the chemical structures of these herbs and nutriceuticals to make their “Frankenstien” drugs which are usually expensive and often have side effects that further compromise the patients health.
I want to work hand in hand with the medical community, teach folks to restore health as much as possible and use the medical interventions of surgery and drugs only when necessary. I’d like to see us return to the days when we grew our food free of chemical carcinogens and ate wisely, not addictively.
Oh, and I’d like to bring some watermelon, figs and blueberries to the porch.
Here’s an inexpensive electrolyte rich beverage we can all enjoy and benefit from:
In a glass combine 1/4th juice of your choice,
top off with good water and add a couple pinches of good sea salt (must be evaporated sea water not sodium chloride) stir and enjoy at least once per day.
Hope my post wasn’t too long!
P
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By: Pamela on September 1, 2009
at 10:00 AM
First of all, Donna, I never post as annoymous. I don’t have time to post that often. I read when I can and have found James to be rational, calm and explain his thinking very clearly. He doesn’t alway reach the same conclusion as I do, but he asks questions rather than just making statements that could fit on a bumper sticker. I went back over yesteday’s posts to read them again and make sure I didn’t miss anything. I didn’t. The intollerance I say came from PalinShutUp. Perhaps you thought you were reading her statements?
James, I think I’ve finally figured it out. When you express a different opinion with something like firmness, you are being “rude”. It’s a whole peer pressure thing. If you don’t repeat the same things everyone else says and agrees with, you’re being intolerant. The problem, you see, is that you’re being honest about your beliefs. You need to stop being truthful and get on the PC train. Join the herd.
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By: Anne on September 1, 2009
at 9:57 AM
Jean
Since you asked,
I was not a prisoner of war. I was transferred to a base that was out of control with a high suicide, drug and alcholism rate. We medics and supply personnel lived in an isolated site in six man quansite huts a mile from the main base.
Some of the airmen ran a protection and prostitution ring, and every one was afraid of them. For me, it was like moving into a western town in an old movie where everyone was cowed by the bad guys and waited for the sherrif to rescue them.
No one would file a complaint because of fear. They smashed a man’s face with a two by four for example, but he refused to give the officers any information.
We needed cats to eat the rats. They took one man’s cat, and kittens after they strangled them and hung them on his door way like dirty laundry. They caught our cat and put her in our stove, but she escaped before they could shut the lid. She was partly on fire and ran under the hut. They got shovels, but they couldn’t dig her out. It was relatively penny anne stuff, but I didn’t want to face two years of it.
One night, they broke in and beat one of my hut mates pretty badly. I had only been there three weeks, but as we cleaned the blood from his nose, I decided to file a complaint. Two others, including the man who was beaten followed suit because I did. I thought they would be arrested and that would be the end of it.
The squadron promised protection, but they didn’t tell me they wanted to use us as bait. Since the other two were in hiding, I was all of the bait. They wanted the bad guys to do something more violent so they could press heavier charges against them. No one told me we were being watched.
One of the guys hid out in a barracks under construction and the other moved in with his British girlfriend. I stayed in the quansite hut because I had no place to go.
You know how people are. After wishing someone would turn the bad guys in, they one by one decided the men weren’t so bad after all. I became a pariah. No one wanted to associate with me off duty for fear they would suffer my fate. One of the men moved out of the quansite hut. Since he had a key, I couldn’t lock the door.
An office pool was organized as men bet on when and whether we would be killed or merely hospitalilzed. Each day a number appeared on the bulletin board, and each day it was smaller. Our NCOIC yelled and threatened, but he couldn’t learn who was doing it or to make them stop.
They came for me at night, sometimes ten, sometimes thirty or so. I trained myself to wake up angry to intimidate them. One night, I woke with a knife on my throat, so I got my own knife and kept it hidden. They were trying to intimidate me so I would recant, but I refused.
One night, they grabbed me while I was asleep and held me down as they took my right arm and slowly twisted it where it wasn’t supposed to go. Then they twisted it the other way, then back. I tried to escape, but they were too strong. It seemed like all night, but it was probably only an hour or so. They damaged the carpules.
They also took my arms and pulled them over my back toward my head. That wasn’t so bad because I am double jointed and can touch my ears that way. I pretended to be in more pain than I was.
I told the officers, and said I was afraid they were about to kill me. The officers said they would soon make arrests and not to worry. The men returned with a hammer and smashed my thumb which had been broken a year before. They were creative. I’ll give them that. Instead of one fell swoop, they began with light taps and increased the pounding until my thumb was filled with bone fragments as it still is. My right hand was virtually useless after that, but I am ambidextrous, so I could still work. Six weeks of physical therapy gave me the use of my hand, but when I left the service they listed me as minimally disabled.
A lot of other stuff was going on at the same time. One NCO snapped on duty, and we had to restrain him until he calmed down. He wanted to kill our CO. Another man took his pistol and said he was going to kill all of the bad guys. We disarmed him and he spent a vacation on the psycho ward for his own good.
As the appointed time approached, my emotions went numb. I knew I was going to die, and I resolved to take as many as I could first. Each night, I played scenarios in my head, so I would not hesitate. These men were not abstractions. They were people I knew. Yet I resolved to slay them, and the thought gave me pleasure. I planned to kill them with my knife and bare hands instead of a pistol because I thought I would have a better chance of beating the rap if I survived.
The worst was the man and daughter who burned to death in the wrecked truck. I still “hear” their screams and their begging to be shot. Curiously, their screams reminded me of squealing pigs near the end before they began to gurgle.
I resolved to live a good life to give theirs meaning, and I have. I never did drugs, smoked, or drank after grad school. My wife and I made a successful business which will take care of us, we have helped people who needed it, and we raised two successful children. Life is good.
My only addiction is danger. I chase storms and lightning. I have been struck by a feeder charge, and I have looked up into a tornado funnel. I am a volunteer weather observer and storm spotter. Posting here has been more challenging than where most people agree with me.
I am one of the luckiest men I know. Unlike many soldiers and civilians who have suffered real brutality, my adventures were just bad enough to let me know I was capable of bravery. I can look myself in the mirror and like who I see.
I post on two different message boards, this one and a conservative one. I am another face in the crowd there. I like it better there. I made friends with liberals, on the Janeane Garafalo board and some of us have personally met. Apparently, they are a different breed than some who post here.
I came here because I didn’t want to sing to the choir, and I wanted to test my opinions. Its boring when everyone agrees with you. I was ready to leave permanently back in May when my left eye was bothering. Someone asked me not to leave because the forum needed alternative views. This country has divided into ideological camps and has relatively little civil contact with itself. My goal was to bridge the gap and convince people neither side possess all of the truth.
I don’t want to be the center of attention. I saw it as my duty to post here as much as anything. So break out the party favors. I am leaving for now until the bile subsides.
I’m not complaining because of name calling. I am calling some out because they are showing themselves to be not the liberals they pretend to be. They are no different from the fanatical conservatives they profess to hate. They are the same animal with a leftist ideology. They are mini- Rush Limbaughs without the skills or talent.
This a message board, not real life. Names can’t hurt anyone.
For some reason, I still like Palinshutup, because even on her bad days, she is better than you.
You, Miss Jean Brodie, are among the worst. You seem so gentile with your honeyed words, “history lessons” and travelogues. Yet you break the law by smuggling olive trees into the country. I noticed early on you waited for someone else to attack me before you piled on. Now, you ask questions, add insults, and tell me you don’t want to read my response. That dear lady, is the mark of a coward. I hope you scroll by. You may not read it, but others will. Your “prime” left you long ago didn’t it?
I have come to believe that the purpose of your life is only to serve warning to others. You turn my stomach. That goes for you too MLP. You can’t even do your own dirty work. You have to cheer from the side lines.
Juneau Joe,
I respect you, and ask you to check the latest edition of Atlantic Magazine. It has an article about health care, insurance and suggestions to fix the system. Maybe you could share what you think. I won’t be here to read it, but others will.
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By: James on September 1, 2009
at 9:56 AM
Mid-day and just finished with therapy. OW. When they say feel the burn, they really mean it. I told my PT guy he should work for the CIA. I have to relearn how to flex my knee properly so I have weight evenly distributed on my recovering ligaments and such. . . Next session more flexing more stretching and more feeling that burn. . .which I’m still feeling.
DeLurker Girl & Poolman, the Secret Service has already interviewed that “pastor” & are monitoring him AND his connections. He’s not even an ordained minister, just some Elmer Gantry who found a way to “justify” his religious and racial hatred and make money. His church even looks like a discount dollar store front. I remain amazed at the ability of these folks to attract “true believers”. . .but I know a couple of such folks, and I have to admit, I do sit there with blood running down my chin from biting my tongue. But for real fun, if you’re so inclined, check out Bob McDonnell’s master thesis – he’s running for governor of VA. oohhh. Here’s the TPM summary http://bit.ly/gaRao and they have a link embedded that takes you to the actual thesis. Very interesting reading. . . .McDonnell’s disavowing the thesis premise now, but from years of editing and proofing theses, I suspect he really hasn’t moved all that far from his premise.
Let me know what you think. . .
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By: Greytdog on September 1, 2009
at 9:52 AM
Delurker Girl Δ, that is unbelievable! I am embarrassed to say that came from my state. The ignorance is rampant. I guess we will be keeping an eye on that one. And only 30 members in that congregation. It will be interesting to see if his church grows or shrinks after this. What a loon!
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By: Poolman on September 1, 2009
at 9:28 AM
Did you ever hear the one about the preacher who hoped Obama would get brain cancer and die?
It’s not a joke.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/31/az-pastor-brain-cancer/
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on September 1, 2009
at 9:08 AM
This weblog is being featured on Five Star Friday!
http://www.fivestarfriday.com/2009/09/five-star-fridays-edition-68.html
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By: schmutzie on September 1, 2009
at 8:52 AM
*Pelosi
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By: lori on September 1, 2009
at 7:08 AM
Good morning Joe, all, thanks for the links. I think they pretty much tell the story.
The GOP has made a political decision. They have decided that the only way to win in 2010, or 2012 is to oppose Obama at every turn by making as big a stink as possible over EVERYTHING. They will hammer on Socialism, deficit, and tax and spend for the next 4 years.
One of our biggest mistakes, this time, and always, is we get distracted by these red herrings. America WANTS healthcare for all, there is no doubt about that, we must remain focused.
Democrats are really good at shooting ourselves in the foot by infighting and compromising. Let us hope we have learned the lessons from the past and we use whatever means necessary and avaliable to us to ram this legislation through. I hope we grow some and do it. Screw bipartisanship… they have already shown they are not coming to the table in good faith… I will be watching for signals in the next couple of days from Reid and Polosi. The word on the street is they are prepared to get er done… Hope my sources are correct.
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By: lori on September 1, 2009
at 7:05 AM
Billionaires for health care reform or Put more money in my trust fund.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/billionaires-wealth-care-susan-davis-town
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on September 1, 2009
at 5:47 AM
Check out this ad against Grassley in Iowa. It is about time.
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/new-ad-campaign-target-grassley-his-h
The Republicans want to take away choices to the public and make a bigger pool for insurance companies so they can make bigger profits. How many millions has the insurance company given Grassley? Pay Off? Is saying NO to a public option the best idea for the average taxpayer? I think not.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on September 1, 2009
at 5:36 AM
Health care, the business, explained.
very interesting
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on September 1, 2009
at 5:30 AM
Helen was on T.V.????
When??? I want to see that!
Margaret and Helen NEED to be on T.V.!
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By: Jessica R. on September 1, 2009
at 5:17 AM
Way to go, Jean!!!!!
ALOHA!!!!
🙂
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By: MLP on September 1, 2009
at 5:15 AM
Meet…Erika
They haven’t officially named her yet…but they should be by tomorrow.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 31, 2009
at 11:46 PM
Except these two ladies are real and those to ladies are men. Many of us have seen Helen on TV to know that she is not one of the Tuna characters.
Also, you can go waaaay back into their posts to see they were around just sharing normal stories before the election came along.
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By: Victoria in Sunset on August 31, 2009
at 11:08 PM
New to this party, but could have sworn I spotted Helen and Margaret during a recent production of “Tuna Does Vegas” in Galveston.
Marvelous!
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By: peewee in texas on August 31, 2009
at 10:51 PM
Hi gang and James,
Enough already. When I came back after being away for a while, I only read a day or two of comments. There were MANY, MANY positive and thoughtful comments as well as Gawd knows PLENTY of the same ole stuff!
1. I have three questions for you, James. In all your ramblings, whom are you trying to convince? The folks here at M&H’s or yourself.
2. You have alluded INNUMERABLE times to having been ‘mildly tortured’ but never mentioned having been a prisoner-of-war or for how long. So who ‘mildly tortured’ you and on which side were they? What exactly constitutes ‘mildly tortured’.
We all have family and friends who were veterans of WWII, the Korean ‘Conflict’, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, the Iraq War and now the Afghanistan War. Many did not come back at all. Others came back as wounded warriors with serious life-long disabilities. Many, many, many others came back, adjusted to civilian life and have had satisfying, successful lives.
3. You have described yourself as ‘a kind and cheery man with a sense of humor’. How is it that you have rarely if ever displayed those characteristics of your personality here at M&H’s? You have chastised people for being ‘ignorant’ (isn’t that name calling?), questioned the state of their mental health and any number of insulting insinuations. Yet, you fire back with vehement vitriol whenever you are challenged. If you are going to dish it out, you better be prepared to take it!
I suspect that if you were to go to even a moderately conservative blog, you would only be another face in the crowd. As such you would not be able to attract the ATTENTION that you crave and get here at M&H.
May I remind you that we are all GUESTS here on M&H’s porch and share in her tea and pies. I don’t believe you have ever acknowleged that.
Never mind answering. When I get back, I will only scroll on by your comments as usual anyway. Maybe you are just a lonely old man with nothing better to do than argue, argue, argue and defend your little tiny center of the universe as you have always seen it. By now you should have picked up on the impression you leave that you are very much a minority of one – yourself.
Aloha! 🙂
Jean
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By: Jean on August 31, 2009
at 10:32 PM
A Republican is challenged on his health care facts by people in the audience.
http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/texas-republican-pete-olsons-major-he
I have read that not many Republicans are having town meetings – this is probably why.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 31, 2009
at 10:16 PM
Dear Helen,
We miss your blog entries, hope you’re feeling o.k.!
Take care,
Clyde and Linda
Poteet, Texas
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By: Clyde and Linda on August 31, 2009
at 9:22 PM
interesting little tax article some here may be interested in reading
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/31/the-truth-about-taxes/
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 9:20 PM
August 29, 2009
at 11:46 AM
“….However, one person has been sadly neglected all of these years–Mary Jo Kopechne…..”
1:13 PM
“….Kennedy caused her to die when she might have lived if he had cared more about her life than his own welfare…..”
1:34 PM
“….Kennedy and Laura Bush are imperfect humans, and each caused someone to die…..”
2:15 PM
“….The sights and sounds of death never leave. They are horrible as are the lives cut short. Maybe it is why remembering Mary Jo is important to me…..”
11:10 PM
“….Ted’s causing Mary Jo’s death also made Joseph lose the will to live…..
None of the mourning Kennedy family will read this so what I wrote won’t hurt them….”
August 30, 2009
at 11:37 AM
“….I brought up Mary Jo Kopechne because much of the press downplayed the horrible way she died…..”
August 31, 2009
at 7:44 AM
“….Our latest Time Magazine is a memorial to Ted Kennedy. Though writers glossed over the effects of Mary’s death….”
knock knock hello??? Im not disagreeing, I am saying that there is no need to spam the blog over and over with the same thing at least uaw had the sense to make his crude comment and be done with it
not you, you have to ram it in until someone calls you out on it then you act like the innocent
please
we know she died in a tragic accident and Ted was responsible what the hell else you want?
the man is dead and now its between him and God
all I asked is that you have a little respect for how some of us feel, that’s all, but you obviously couldn’t give a rat’s ass
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 9:12 PM
Oh boy…Mercury is going square with mars on the 3rd AND we have a full moon in Pisces on Friday to make matters worse! What does that mean you ask??? LOL Welll there is gonna be a whole lot of arguing and twice as many hurt feelings. Maybe we got a jump on the stars?? 😉
Happy natal return Greytdog… !!!! I bet you have an interesting chart!
namaste’
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By: lori on August 31, 2009
at 9:02 PM
It’s like a long trip in the car and we keep asking, “are we there yet?”. Everyone gets kind of snippy when we are so long in between posts.
This blog definitely leans more left. I consider myself moderate, but lean more left the older I get. It may just be to disassociate myself from the right that seems to have degraded rapidly in the past few years. I have been to right leaning blogs and most are pretty angry and jump on anything that appears left leaning. It is still kind of childish when I see it. Most are saying the same things over and over. Obama lies, he’s the antichrist, he’s a facist, he’s a socialist, he’s a communist with his czars and spending our future away and dismantling our military and taking away our guns and making us less safe and blah, blah, blah. Any opposition and your labeled ignorant and an Obama messiah worshiper. I can make no headway in those forums. It usually isn’t worth trying. It’s like chumming sharks. There are lots of hungry sharks out there looking for anyone that doesn’t ditto up to the bar so they can tear them limb from limb.
Most of my friends and relatives lean right. I can talk politics with my Mom to some point, then she just locks up and I hit a wall. It is hard to go against the grain. My people have been republican all their lives. As a result I always heard what a bleeding liberal heart Ted Kennedy was and that all he wanted to do was hand out taxpayer money to everyone, making us hardworkin’ ‘mericans pay for the lazy people on food stamps and welfare. That whole rhetoric. And Mary Jo was always brought up. They like beating a dead horse, for sure.
My Mom sent me Glenn Beck’s book “Common Sense”. I have so little respect for Glenn Beck after the BS I have seen him accomplish over the past year or so. I am not much of a reader, but I guess I should give it a go. It isn’t very long. I just don’t know what she is trying to get me to see. I guess since it is “inspired by Thomas Paine” it may be okay. I would hate to read it and end of feeling I just wasted a chunk of my life that I can’t get back. It is bad enough Mom contributed to Glenn’s income and thinks he is someone worth hearing from.
Greytdog, that sounds like a wonderful meal, though I know you miss that hospital food. I would think hospitals would serve healthy and appetizing food, to help people get well and improve attitudes. Especially since they know so much about improving people’s health and how much psychology comes into play.
I can’t remember what a dial up connection is like. That seems like light years ago. I have been spoiled with my cable connection for the past 5 years. I would do fiberoptic if they ever get it to my neighborhood. My brother swears by his FO connection. Me, I got to have several windows open all the time and doing multiple things. Dial up would not work for me.
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By: Poolman on August 31, 2009
at 8:38 PM
Happy birthday, Greytdog! The dinner sounds scrumptious . . . you are truly blessed to have such a good friend. I hope you enjoyed the day.
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By: Joni Δ on August 31, 2009
at 8:01 PM
Got here too late for the fun – what a shame! Anyone who missed T.R. Reid on Fresh Air earlier this month missed an excellent discussion on other countries’ health care plans and how they compare to ours. There are other options besides Canada and Britain, you know…
Rationing already exists here in our health care, by the way – the poor and the people with “pre-existing conditions” get less than do the perfectly healthy and the wealthy. In a society like ours, that’s just not right. Everyone should receive a baseline of care that enables them to be a contributing member of society. That’s all the current administration is trying to do.
I mean, besides killing all the old people…
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By: suburbancorrespondent on August 31, 2009
at 7:53 PM
Whew! Leave for a day’s work and what do I come back to? People glaring at each other across the porch!
I agree M&H have a left leaning blog here–but let’s not forget that the leaning is a result of being attached at the base somewhere in the middle.
Otherwise, how could something lean?
James,
Do you post on any right leaning blogs? If so, what are you reactions/statements like?
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By: vgman on August 31, 2009
at 6:56 PM
Sandra–you and me both. “I am…filled with certitude.” How special–and this is someone who denies he self-aggrandizes.
No–he is not rude in response to others. He is flat out inconsiderate with his repetitive, interminable posts. He’s like someone who insists on smoking and believes that people who would prefer not to share in his habit are somehow intolerant.
As for whether people act this way in real life, I assume there are many who, for example, when faced with a colossal bore at a party might try to change the subject, might suggest that others would enjoy getting a word in edgewise, and finally might say “enough!” People lacking social antennae just do not seem to get when they are running on and on.
As for Greytdog–that is a lovely sounding dinner and you should enjoy every bite.
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By: Donna on August 31, 2009
at 6:23 PM
Our current health system breaks up families.
Sad but true! 56% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. This is a very sad story.
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/nick-kristof-ugly-truth-our-healthcar
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 31, 2009
at 6:19 PM
okay I’m braggin here – my bestest friend in the whole wide world showed up tonight with DINNER!!!! Now you have to understand, my friends are great but only a few can really cook – and cook well. The type of food that says sit down, dig in, laugh, and enjoy!! And oh my. What a wonderful feast she brought – fresh fresh salmon (grilling now) baby yukon potatoes (currently being blanched before roasting), fresh from her garden asparagus (smells like heaven) and a huge beautiful fruit salad with mango, papaya, fresh pineapple. . .oh jeez I’m drooling. And if that wasn’t enough – OMIGOD. She made her very special Dark Fudge Mousse Cake to celebrate my birthday. I am in heaven – I only wish I could share with everyone. . . thank you to my friend Devon for this wonderful feast!! I wish I could post a picture cuz the table looks so yummy! Okay – y’all gotta go eat!!!
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By: Greytdog on August 31, 2009
at 5:56 PM
Blah, blah, blah…..
From now on, I promise to scroll everytime I see the name James. Really. I mean it.
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By: Sandra on August 31, 2009
at 5:52 PM
Thank you who defended me.
Palinshutup,
I know this is a left wing blog. What does that have to do with anything? You liberals are supposed to be tolerant of other views, but over the years I have noticed a tendency to shift from “I am right and you are wrong” to “I am right, and you are evil”.
It is true of conservatives and especially liberals. I asked a woman I met on the Kathy Griffin message board when we posted there to try this site. She is more liberal than I and yet, she lasted a day and told me you all were bigots.
Some of you are so sensitive you can’t stand a negative word about Ted Kennedy or other sacred cows. With the slightest hint of negativity your sensitive skin sends you into vapors. This latest feud started because I thought much of the press gave Mary Jo a raw deal, and I supported my opinion.
Lori is wrong. I didn’t get my information from Rush etc. I probably listen to his show less often then many here do. I have never seen Sean’s show, and I have never checked his or Rush’s websites. I do follow Drudge, and the talk show hosts probably do too. I think for myself. If they said the same things I wrote, we were reading the same material.
I also read Time, Atlantic, and US News among others. Because Time’s conclusions about Kennedy dovetailed with mine means we decided independently of each other. I suspect Lori feeds at the party trough. She often repeats party talking points.
Do you think Kennedy would have been such a successful legislator with your attitude? He made common cause with powerful people of all political stripes as Anne mentioned, and knew how to negotiate. Mitt Romney and George W. Bush are two examples. Some conservatives were his friends.
Yes, I am rude after you are rude to me. Yes, I can be combative on screen or to your face. I am assertive and filled with certitude. So are some of you. If you are courteous to me, I am courteous to you. Its a simple rule some of you should have learned in kindergarten.
I am a fast typist and try to respond to everyone. I explained why our slow connection makes it hard to make multiple posts, so I put them all together. I applogize for that. I don’t have the time to wait so long.
Some of you are fine examples we should all emulate. I hesitate to name them for fear you will launch an attack. Since she just brought it up, Greytdog is one.( I forgot to mention worms and compost.)
She is one several I have a lot of respect for. She would love to bash my head, and sometimes her views make my skin crawl, but we agree to disagree most of the time.
As for a small number of you, do you actually act this way in real life, or do you become braver than you are when you face a computer screen?
You give liberals a bad name, and you certainly dishonor Ted Kennedy’s legacy.
I try to read everything. I am a speed reader. As for the rest, of you, scroll baby scroll.
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By: James on August 31, 2009
at 5:48 PM
Anonymous: any chance of something approaching originality? Yesterday it was more of the same. Your tune has worn pretty thin.
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By: Donna on August 31, 2009
at 5:26 PM
Whirled, thanks but I know (& peeked in on) about the right wing blogs. And I have to deal with white-ringers in my day to day life. But please tell me the specific post when Margaret & Helen, despite Helen’s progressive political editorials, became the place for left-wing Taliban and group-think? I don’t see James as a right-wing nut – but then again, I don’t see you or most anyone on here as a wingnut. This is one of the few blogs where a person can go, read, comment, and not be required to be a sheep. or at least it was.
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By: Greytdog on August 31, 2009
at 5:06 PM
Whirled and Donna always say it so much better than me
the elite M&H I will never be, Im usually on the fringes, that’s me, I think for myself
anyway, Im off to the garden and probably wont be back till M&H post again, Im sure to james’s relief LOL!
I chatted with him much earlier on and did respect many of his views, obviously some of you weren’t reading
so take care and see you later
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 4:50 PM
A little Monday afternoon Whirled Hate.
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By: Anonymous on August 31, 2009
at 4:48 PM
Quoting Greytdog @1:25p
“i disagree. This is not a left wing blog nor a right wing blog.
Oh GD,
You need to get out (on the web) more. If you cannot clearly see that M&H is a left- leaning liberal blog, then you haven’t seen the other side. I’m sorry I won’t link to any, but you can find them easy enough.
Put your cyber-nose to the wind and sniff out the smell of a burning cross and gunpowder. Head that way until you run into a stack of bibles and/or everything is carpeted floor to ceiling to bloody flags.
I’d stop there if I were you. You’ll find enough putrid bile covering the floor to make you pray that it’s just a joke. But it isn’t. It is what remains of the on-line Republican party in this country.
The sleaziest bunch of jingoistic, xenophobic, delusional, anti-evolution, close-minded, paranoid, homophobic, anti-choice, dare I say racist?, authoritarian followers that ever called themselves a political party.
Obviously Greytdog, they’re all not that bad but it really depends how deep into the ‘Abyss of the Right’ you wanna go.
I do warn you; too far and you get into blogs that are, right now, discussing how praying for Obama to die is a good Xtian thing to do, the best way to torture (blow torches, bolt cutters, etc.) and how to make Sarah Palin president; all on the same thread. 😉
Get well soon GD.
~
Quoting MLP at 9:48a
“Compost? Boy, are YOU asking the right person!”
Go right to the source…good one.
PSU, Donna, lori,
Call ’em the way ya sees ’em. 8)
‘Anonymous’ is just James 2 / too?
Honolulu Sally,
Glad you like my links. I try to keep it lively.
Dreck and Palin
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 31, 2009
at 4:41 PM
I’m sorry–you apparently aren’t reading the posts that you are criticizing. (and, to the extent your avatar looks surprisingly like one of a few minutes ago, you are the “anonymous” who engaged in exactly the insults to which you supposedly take offense.)
Let me try it again, although it’s certainly been made clear. I don’t believe anyone is “bashing” James for his viewpoints. However, I do believe that a number of people–myself included–belive he is discourteous in the manner in which he expresses those viewpoints.
As for your intimation that you might “stop visiting,” if you are, in fact, the troll who was insulting PalinSutUp earlier today, that would be an excellent idea. If you are not that person, perhaps you might wish to actually read posts before opining on them.
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By: Donna on August 31, 2009
at 4:21 PM
Oh, we’re back on the James-bashing bandwagon, are we? The “Oh, he doesn’t think the way we do, let’s insult him” bandwagon. Let’s continue on our way to Bill Bishop’s Big Sort. Let’s move beyond Ted Kennedy’s death by forgetting about the fact that he could talk to and compromise with the most conservative of conservative republicans to pass legislation in the Senate. We need to perpetuate a country where we choose sides from which to sling verbal insults at each other.
God, how boring this blog would be without people who didn’t once in awhile express a different opinion backed up by some evidence. I would simply have to stop visiting. The intolerance is beginning to get boring….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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By: Anne on August 31, 2009
at 3:57 PM
Greytdog,
Compost pile! You just happened to hit on my newest favorite project.
Worms!! Red worms that look like earthworms, but you don’t put them in the ground. Since you live in Florida (same temps as Hawaii), you can keep them outside. If you lived in a more severe climate, they have worm apartment houses (no joke).
I love my worms, I feed them my old veggies that I forgot to eat, bread, coffee grinds, papaya peelings, etc.
Then, within a few weeks, they eat it up and leave a very rich dark brown vermicast that can be used to mix in with soil, and also give off “worm tea” that can be mixed with water and sprayed on or watered on plants.
My plants are happy, my worms keep growing and multiplying, and I am a happy worm mommy.
Don’t want to take up too much space here, but I get a lot of my info from a store in town, Waikiki Worm Company. They have a website: WaikikiWorm.com
Whirled, I have to tell you, that link to Glenn Beck was hilarious. Then, I checked out Glenn Beck with Sarah Palin and their “discussion” about their concern about Obama’s secret army and how they have to form their own army. ROTFLMAO!
Jon Stewart makes us laugh on purpose. Glenn Beck makes us laugh unintentionally.
Maybe that is what separates us M&H people with non M&H people. A sense of humor. Even UAW – you have a rough facade with a chuckle under it all the time.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 31, 2009
at 3:07 PM
newsflash, most of the people who follow this blog, agree with M&H…are left leaning, dems…
as posted before and some seem to ignore, it isn’t the dissenting or disagreeing
it is the parroting of what rush and his ilk are regurgitating from their sewers, not once, not twice…I dont know, I lost freaking count of how many times james beat the Mary Jo horse
I do not place Ted on any pedestal, dont insert words or thoughts in my head, I know he wasn’t perfect, I agreed with a lot that he did and as with Obama disagreed with some things too
I have friends from all political affiliations and they will be the first to tell you that I call em as I see em, I dont care what side of the fence you pitch from
AGAIN, it is not that james disagrees, I even thought, ‘how touching’ the first time he mentioned MJ but when he continued bringing it up and then it turned into ‘letme insert the tragedy whenever I post about anything remotely having to do with Ted Kennedy’….
well, sorry if Im not as perfect and patient and forgiving as some of you
james is posting in a LEFT LEANING BLOG, what in freaking hell does he expect?
maybe what ever is going on in your life at this time is short changing your patience, feel free to scroll when you see me
I wont take it personally
I mean it, really!
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 2:48 PM
lori, you were post 1,000 🙂
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 2:13 PM
I call em as I see em and anyone is welcome to scroll past my posts as well
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 2:08 PM
YouHOOOOOOOOOOOOO Helen & Margaret 🙂
Time for a new post, I hope. My scrolling finger is getting very seriously cramped.
We miss you and enough of James already! OY!
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By: thymeCher on August 31, 2009
at 2:04 PM
Palinshutup, A couple of months back I noticed the connection between what Rushbo, Sean, Drudge (all the other whackos) had on their website (or “show”) and James daily deposit on this blog. In many cases it is word for word..I called him out and low and behold I had a few Anonymous jibes too … What a cowinky LOL!!!
Hang in there girl!
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By: lori on August 31, 2009
at 1:54 PM
Donna, thanks for the wishes! Comfort of 4-leggeds? oy! as the sayin’ goes with friends like these. . .but I love ’em.
Sorry about the avatar but I’ve got a couple of projects in the works and needed a commonality avatar.
As for the courtesies of posting online, I don’t know. I think it really depends on the blog-owner. Margaret & Helen have some ground rules regarding language. And james has explained that he’s on dialup rather than broadband. . .and sometimes James writes stuff that makes me uncomfortable because it’s stuff that you don’t normally discuss. And personally, if it helps James, then so be it. I’m sure there are folks who see my name and cringe as they scroll by. C’est la vie.
But as far as common courtesy goes, yeah I think we could all use a good dose of it. And not just on the blog.
I have five more PT sessions – then they’ll re-evaluate to ascertain if I need more. And next week, Willie the Newfie comes for three night and four days to prepare for his State Water Trials. . .
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By: Greytdog on August 31, 2009
at 1:52 PM
Greytdog: I always enjoy your posts (even though I mourn the change of your avatar). So here is my topic–what is courteous when posting? In my view, courtesy involves:
1. Putting a reasonable limit on the length of one’s posts.
2. Not saying the same thing multiple times.
3. Not telling people what they “think” or “know.”
4. Not engaging in preening, self-satisfaction.
IMO, James regularly violates these very basic courtesies. Because of that, I (and it appears some others) are frustrated with him and believe he is imposing on those of us who really enjoy this blog and the vast majority of those who post on it. Sometimes, we have expressed that frustration–certainly, I have.
Courtesy is a two-way street and I have found James to be sorely lacking in it. And, again, it is not remotely tied to what his views are–it’s the way he insists on subjecting others to them.
So, I do scroll past James—for the most part. But, when I am scrolling, and scrolling, and scrolling because he has typed an interminable missive, then I get a wee bit annoyed and wish he’d exercise something approaching self-editing.
And so, with those words, I wish you a continued recovery and the comfort of the 4-legged ones.
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By: Donna on August 31, 2009
at 1:40 PM
PalinShutUp – i disagree. This is not a left wing blog nor a right wing blog. It’s Margaret & Helen’s blog. There are times when James pisses me off, there are times when I just want to find UAW and kick him in the shins, and yes, I’m sure it’s quite mutual. Did I like what James said about Kennedy? No. Did I snark back? Probably, altho I think I was being polite. There are days when I have reached the end of the rope and would love to take some one down with me. . .Ted Kennedy was my hero. But he was also human. There were times during his career when I wanted to kick him in the shins and ask WTF???? Kennedy no more wanted to be on a pedestal than he wanted to be President. My dad was a die-hard Kennedy Democratic Party loyalist – and Ted broke his heart with Chappaquiddick. It took him a long time to forgive Ted. . .until they had a chance to talk face to face several years later. IMO if you truly believe in what Ted Kennedy stood for – and not just his policy stances – but in him as a person, then you know that James would be the first person that Ted would sit with and talk with and listen to – for a long time. That is Ted’s legacy – the understanding that unless we listen to and talk with each other and give the same measure of respect to those with whom we disagree as to those with whom we agree, then we as a nation are doomed to an endless cycle of recrimination and blame and all will be for naught.
And frankly, IMO, if you don’t like what James is saying, then effin’ don’t respond. Scroll on by. Bring in another topic while we wait for Margaret & Helen to post.
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By: Greytdog on August 31, 2009
at 1:25 PM
Donna, most of what his rushness vomited is about Mary Jo Kopechne and how ‘the media coverage of Ted Kennedy’s death is sick.’
sound familiar?
I tell you, james is good
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 1:06 PM
PalinShutUp:
I agree with you! Kennedy was a man of greatness with weaknesses for all the world to see. He did not try to hide them. He worked harder for the good of all to make up for his many failings.
Kennedy got Title 9, Medicare, Special Education legislation IDEA – can all be attributed to Edward Kennedy.
Kennedy also went to all the funerals and memorials for the soldiers who died in Iraq and Afghanistan – that says a lot.
James: You are beating a dead horse.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 31, 2009
at 12:57 PM
James, oh how I wish that rich flood plain soil of yours would open and swallow you up.
Really. I mean it.
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By: MLP on August 31, 2009
at 12:51 PM
PalinShutUp–I don’t have the stomach. What’s it say?
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By: Donna on August 31, 2009
at 12:50 PM
wow james, your minions are fast
‘By: Anonymous on August 31, 2009
at 12:41 PM
PalinShutUp,
This ain’t your porch biyotch.
KThanksBye’
never saw a troll come out of the woodwork so fast before
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 12:44 PM
ps for those who doubt what james is doing, hold your nose, take a quick glance at what rush has on the upper left corner of his website
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 12:41 PM
PalinShutUp,
This ain’t your porch biyotch.
KThanksBye
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By: Anonymous on August 31, 2009
at 12:41 PM
anyway, before I got distracted – which is most probably his intent anyway, I came to post this
if you’ve got a video camera and if you gotta story – here’s
your chance
A Reality Check from the Vice President
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/771?e=12&ref=image
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 12:27 PM
james, sweetheart, this is a left wing blog
did you lose your way?
here, let me help you
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/
go in peace
take care…..
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 12:23 PM
lord have mercy
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 12:20 PM
Palinshutup
There you go again with the insults and name calling. What about the awful things some people have posted about Republicans, conservative Democrats, Tea Party protesters and others who believe differently than most people who post here? That’s all right isn’t it?
Thanks for supporting my point. You are certainly a TRUE BELIEVER aren’t you.? Hit a nerve didn’t I? Or is it your anger problem?
This one’s for you.
“I don’t know if I can yell any louder.
How many times have I kicked you around here?
Or said something insulting?
I can be so mean when I want to be
I am capable of really anything
I can cut you into pieces.
When my heart is broken.
How did I become so obnoxious?
What is it about you that makes me act like this?
I’ve rarely been this nasty.
Can’t you tell this is all just a contest?
The one that wins will be the one who hits the hardest.
But baby, I don’t mean it.
I mean it I promise.
Pink
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By: James on August 31, 2009
at 12:18 PM
very interesting the touch of ‘niceness’ towards some of the more frequent posters here and the comments about his past service which should make anything he posts alright because he may be suffering from some sort of post traumatic syndrome….
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 12:17 PM
what Donna wrote
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 12:12 PM
Palinshutup–it’s hopeless. James is clueless. Having been on (and enjoyed this blog) since it’s beginning, I have never seen anyone who so blithely subjects others on a regular basis to excruciatingly long posts. And now he rationalizes it out of his personal convenience, based on his slow dial up service.
Yes, there are many posters with whom one can disagree–and it’s easy to scroll past them. But James’ insistence on turning his every thought into an operatic saga makes even that difficult.
Again, it’s not a question of disagreeing with his differing viewpoints. It’s that he’s so bloody inconsiderate in expressing them. (and expressing them, and expressing them, and expressing them….)
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By: Donna on August 31, 2009
at 12:07 PM
Thank you OceanGypsy. I have never heard of The Power of Now. I will certainly look for it.
Greytdog, I would buy any book you wrote. Maybe someday you can get it done.
I’m glad the first physical therapy session went well. How many will you need?
I don’t know much about composting because our flood plain soil is already pretty rich. We tried one this year to partly fill a plastic swimming pool for an extra small garden.
A compost pile needs green garden debris as you know, and brown debris like dry leaves. The ratio needs to be about one part green and two parts brown. Otherwise, too much green can make the pile smell bad. I think you can use paper products too if they are in the right proportion.
Mix the two and make the pile at least 3 feet by three feet by three feet. Compost needs the right moisture level to break down. That may be your problem. The compost should feel like a damp wrong-out sponge. Too much moisture can make temperatures fall . Too little moisture slows the decomposition rate and keeps the pile from heating up. If you have a rainy spell which would change the moisture balance, it you could cover the heap during storms to prevent its from getting too wet. Otherwise when it is too dry, you can add a little water.
You should turn the compost pile once a week.
If you have the time and don’t want the hassle, pile grass clippings, etc in a corner of your yard and wait about a year.
If you liked, I could call our extension agent and ask about your temperature problem.
I make long posts because our slow dial up service takes ten or fifteen minutes to let this site reload, and I don’t want to waste the time waiting.
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By: James on August 31, 2009
at 11:55 AM
james, just because you make your ‘disclaimer’ before you start on your daily bashing routine of hammering the same point over and over while pissing here [as some turn their heads and call it something else] doesnt make it OK
you have the nerve to tell Lori the reason you keep hammering your point is because we wont drop discussing Kennedy? you are one crafty troll james, I do have to hand it to you
you succeeded in pulling the wool over some eyes, had me fooled for a while I will admit
as long as you continue pissing on this porch some of us will continue telling you to close your fly
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By: PalinShutUp on August 31, 2009
at 11:53 AM
How to make compost…
…out of your brain.
Watch Glenn Beck!
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 31, 2009
at 10:55 AM
TapDuncan, thank you. I vote about half Democratic for the same reasons. Have you ever been in the Nebraska Sandhills? It has some of the best grass in the country.
Unlike other places, we have had so much rain the center pivots have set idle all since late May. Crops look good, but our cool summer has slowed development. We’ll be fine if an early frost stays away. I hope things are well with you.
Poolman,
Thank you. I like to explore ideas and test them. If they survive attacks from a den of ideological enemies, they are probably right. I have learned some things here and changed some of my opinions.
Thanks to my earlier life, I don’t feel emotions the way most people do.
Donna,
I am not practicing self aggrandizement. I am aggrandizing ideas which I believe to be true. Since I don’t usually argue unless something is based in fact, I am usually at least partly right. I pound it into the ground when someone keeps arguing or resorts to name calling or insults.
My history, most of which you don’t know, gives me good reason to be self confident.
I will provide a detailed list of my shortcomings if you want.
PalinShutup
If you argue like a moron, you deserve to be treated like one or maybe a small child.
Sandra,
Do you enjoy the sizzling sound of a steak on the grill or frying pan? A famous line from Solent Green is “ITS PEOPLE! ITS PEOPLE!” Do I have to spell it out for you? “Circus freak eh?” Better to be a circus freak than someone like you.
You remove all doubt when you open your mouth don’t you?
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By: James on August 31, 2009
at 10:47 AM
Compost? Boy, are YOU asking the right person!
🙂
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By: MLP on August 31, 2009
at 9:48 AM
Good morning, all!!
Greytdog, you so made me chuckle. Are you familiar with the “Animal Conspiracy”? I included the link. I think it is hilarious. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LDnQpD_uFQ
Honolulu Sally, I could not agree with you more on Hawai’i being a great place to raise a child. Because if its cultural diversity, that is precisely why I moved my Happa daughter there. But, life happens. We will make it back one day.
James, I know that you and all Viet Nam vets were treated horribly upon your return. Sorry will never be enough. Have you ever read the book, “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle? My friend recommended it to me. He got a lot more out of it than I did. But, it did have some very profound and helpful information.
Everyone else, Happy Monday!!!!!
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By: OceanGypsi on August 31, 2009
at 9:48 AM
Had my first PT session. The therapist is a nice kid. . . & we spent a lot of time trading tips and techniques & discussing health care of course. . . he doesn’t think I should start dancing yet. . . no more ballet moves for awhile. Gee, I’m so disappointed. I had visions of reenacting Billy Elliott.
James, that was a nice compliment. I’m flattered. really. I’ve tried writing things before but my brain wanders away and then eventually the fingers follow. . .
james since you’re a farmer I’m gonna pick your brains. When I was growing up we always had a compost pile. . .a real necessity in order to have good soil for growing. So. I want a compost pile. I’ve a compost bin, but I can’t get the internal temp high enough someday or it gets rip roaring too high. What am I doing wrong? And can I include shredded paper & the cats discarded cardboard scratching pads? It’s biodegradable. . .right?
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By: Greytdog on August 31, 2009
at 9:36 AM
This morning’s low temperature was forty degrees with ground fog–unusual for August.
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By: James on August 31, 2009
at 7:57 AM
I am not beating the same dead horse. I am making a different point.
Seneca
was a stoic philosopher who worked for Nero at times. Thus, he lived with anger on a daily basis. He believed anger came from disappointment and failed expectations. It was a reaction to a threat. One of his solutions was to lower expectations. Assume events or people will treat us harshly or deliver unpleasant truth or views. Then we will not feel threatened by what we expect.
Eric Hoffer,
who called himself a longshoreman studied mass movements and their roots. Through his book THE TRUE BELIEVER, he discussed religious, political, and other movements, and realized they were interchangeable. He noted fanatical Nazis who became fanatical communists and later fanatical anti-communists.
For the TRUE BELIEVER
, the substance of the mass movement is less important than his/her’s being a part of a movement. Mass movements in Hoffer’s opinion are a function of self esteem. People who are down trodden or feel they are become devoted followers of Ronald Reagan, Pat Robertson, Barack Obama, or Hannah Montana.
Our latest Time Magazine is a memorial to Ted Kennedy. Though writers glossed over the effects of Mary’s death on her they did portray it as one of the most important times in Kennedy’s life almost exactly as I did. Joe Klein, no conservative wrote “…after he had somehow allowed a young woman to die, they still wanted him to run for president. There was no way to convince them that he was a hollow shell of the dream.” True believers wanted a standard bearer who would become his martyred brothers.
Lori, gave her definition of conservatives and progressives, and one of the Time writers wrote something I had been thinking. Ted Kennedy was a conservative with a liberal ideology. He was locked in the New Deal, and even when proven wrong he could not easily change. For example, Kennedy believed Clinton had gone too far when he drifted toward the middle, even when his policies worked and lowered deficits. That is the mark of a conservative, and it applies to some people who post here.
However, Kennedy was one of the twentieth century’s most effective legislators with over 130 laws to his credit. He knew how to find common ground, to compromise, and was a like able man. As Rush was born for talk radio, Ted Kennedy was born to legislate. Time and his special talent let him influence the world far more than his supposedly superior brothers.
These thoughts apply to this forum. When someone gives opinions outside the accepted orthodoxy, a few people indulge in personal attacks and name calling instead of disproving the ideas without anger. Its as if something new is a threat, especially if it happens to be true. Such people behave here like conservative true believers with the anger Seneca described.
Lori
once wrote my arguing was like a dog with a bone. She was right. I keep harping on the same thing because others don’t drop the subject. When they do I do.
Someone wrote I was indulging in self pity, when I hinted about the bad times. In my clumsy way, I was giving you a warning. People of my generation created me. They sent me into danger . When I came home, they betrayed me with tomatoes and harsh words. I was broken, but I rebuilt myself into something better. Millions of us did the same.
Aurthur Koestler wrote “One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth or else shut up.” That thought served me well in graduate school and later. I am a pain, and it is hard to shut me up. Obviously, I am not in the same league as Ted Kennedy, but in my way, I am as relentless as he was.
vgman,
I remember wading through a manure pit with five buckle overshoes, but I never lost a shoe as you did. Yuck!
My wife who was born in Cherokee County and grew up on a farm with lighter soil. She had never seen the black “gumbo” clay we have on our farm in the Missouri River valley. The first time I showed her around in early spring, I told her to be careful around our lake shore. She thought I was silly until she lost her shoe as you did and her feet got so stuck I had to pull her back onto dry land.
Our daughter told us she decided to become “town folk” after we cleaned out a bin of soybeans damaged by a flood. There is nothing like the stench of rotted soybeans or a manure pit to send you to town.
Greytdog should write a book about her animals. She has a way with words.
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By: James on August 31, 2009
at 7:44 AM
Poolman that’s exactly what S.O. said when I had to explain the disarray in the office area. . . sigh. I’ve tried really hard to turn the backyard into a safe habitat for the local wildlife. . .and my pups. Of course the dogs think I’m just bringing so many new “toys” to play with . . . maybe I need to start thinking about turning the yard into a safe habitat for ME. . .
I’ve had squirrel once – eons ago when I was working in Eastern Kentucky, Cumberland Gap area. I may have to remind our local squirrels that it is hurricane season . . .and they can easily be grilled. . .
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By: Greytdog on August 30, 2009
at 9:54 PM
They say animals help add years to our lives, but in Greytdog’s case, they may have to make an exception. Wasn’t it the dog-squirrel thingy that made it so you needed the knee surgery in the first place?
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By: Poolman on August 30, 2009
at 9:45 PM
Lesson learned, Greytdog?
🙂
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By: Sandra on August 30, 2009
at 8:13 PM
Hi gang and Greytdog,
Atta girl, Greytdog!!!!!
Before I disappear again for a while, I want to share something with you. It is from a delightful little book by Dan Greenburg and Marcia Jacobs. It’s an old book that breaks me up. It’s entitled “How to Make Yourself Miserable.” (A vital training manual.)
“Aid to Evaluating Your Accomplishments.
Compare yourself with these four ordinary people who were chosen at random.
1. Twenty-six-year-old patent office clerk, A. Einstein, formulated theory of relativity.
2. Swedish singer, Jenny Lind, was so popular that men paid $658.00 per seat to hear her.
3. Youthful piano player, W.A. Mozart, had already composed his first symphony and three sets of sonatas by the age of eight.
4. Civil servant, Abdullah al-Salim of Kuwait, received a salary of $7,280,000 per week. Every two hours and forty minutes he earned the equivalent of the average American’s lifetime income.”
Are you miserable yet?
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on August 30, 2009
at 7:51 PM
Today was an almost picture perfect day in FL. . . blue skies, soft breeze, sun scorching the sandy soil. . . but I decided I’d had enough. Had to get OUTSIDE. So. . .I thought, why not start my own PT program now? I hobbled ever so carefully towards the backdoor leading to the patio. . . being careful to not put hardly any weight on my leg. . .just enough to keep from teetering over. . . I opened the door – and three furry bodies flew past me, leaving me to pirouette with a distinct lack of aplomb and a severe sense of “oh shit”. I managed to latch onto the bookcase, not realizing that cat was nestled on top of the books and grabbed a furry tail! The cat reacted with amazing agility, bouncing off my head onto my back and across the desk. . . .while I had visions of the whole bookcase crashing down on me. . . the dogs heard the noise (I do believe I might have cussed quite loudly) because they came flying back into the house to roundly chastise the cats. . . my big red retriever saw me wobbling and hissing and thought Oh look! Mom’s dancing! So he immediately joined in and bodyslammed me into the bookcase. At that point, I just slid down to floor, looked out the open door to the green yard. . . in time to see a squirrel swinging madly on the bird feeder until the feeder flew free of its hook & fly across the yard, scattering blessings on the rest of the squirrels. I closed the door and crawled back to the couch. I’ll try again tomorrow.
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By: Greytdog on August 30, 2009
at 7:33 PM
I have a witness. Her name is Nicole. Last night at a BBQ. I said, “Does this smell like suntan lotion to you?” She said “Yes.” Pushed it to the back of the plate. I’ll admit it was Safeway inspired–not homemade–whereas the pecan was.
Poolman,
Thanks for the interesting links. Way, way back you had some links on the Federal Reserve, etc.
Saw some signs today at the townhall that said do away with it, etc.
The Lennie story was powerful in many ways. But most of all in the goodhearted way. She is a beacon of hope to all who experience such tragedy.
James
Haven’t responded to your comment of stinky feedlots, but do have a memory to share.
I lost my shoe in hogyard, deep in a manure filled wallowing pit when I was but a toddler. I like to think it was the reason we became “town folk” soon after.
Greytdog,
Good luck with your PT. Your actions and reports from the front lines of health care had me in stitches.
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By: vgman on August 30, 2009
at 6:58 PM
are you speaking metaphorically?
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By: Donna on August 30, 2009
at 6:38 PM
I had the most awful piece of coconut cream pie last night. It smelled like suntan lotion. Thank goodness it was right next to a terrific piece of pecan pie.
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By: vgman on August 30, 2009
at 6:35 PM
Might I be so bold and ask Matthew the moderator to please inform us as to the where abouts of our esteemed hosts?
Maybe Helen is truly teaching us patience in her own unique way.
“Ummm…..what’s for dinner” my stomach is saying.
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By: vgman on August 30, 2009
at 6:33 PM
Poolman, thanks for sharing ShannynMoore’s page. Gives me chills to read it, but makes the point in a powerful way.
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By: kitkat on August 30, 2009
at 6:31 PM
It’s not that he has a different perspective–believe me. But I do object to the constant, grinding repetition and the needlessly (in my opinion) Wagner-ian posts and to the attitude of “I know so much more than you do.”
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By: Donna on August 30, 2009
at 5:46 PM
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…..
1/3 the way left to 3 million hits!
Let us hear a word of wisdom, Lady Helen Please.
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By: Poolman on August 30, 2009
at 4:51 PM
sort of reminds me of a pit bull with his jaws locked on something
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By: PalinShutUp on August 30, 2009
at 4:44 PM
james already admitted a while back he is into pain lol!
and yes, he tells a story many times, as if some of us are morons, just to highlight the negatives many times over
wanna take the time to count how many times he posted about Mary Jo?
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By: PalinShutUp on August 30, 2009
at 4:43 PM
Or mother…..whichever way you look at supreme beings.
One thing I do know, the matters of life and death in the short span of time we live on this planet are made a lot easier when relations between all humans result from a good heart rather than a mean spirit.
So a tax on the 1.2 % of wealthiest Americans will take a little bit of their “corner of the sky”–isn’t it worth it to live on a planet where there are more good hearts than mean spirits?
I’m tired of seeing too many of us living in the shade and not even seeing a corner of the sky.
Went to a town hall meeting today hosted by Rep. Jay Inslee, Dem, 1st Cong. District, WA state.
For the most part, very civil. A few boisterous voices. Many of the same questions, issues, concerns, etc. we’ve been seeing for weeks.
I, too, appreciate the viewpoints of James and others.
Poolman,
I could a use a pool today. Wish I could snap my fingers and make one appear.
And I’d share it with everybody!
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By: vgman on August 30, 2009
at 4:38 PM
I don’t have a problem with James’ posts. I like a different perspective to liven up the discussion. I think it is quite amazing he still comes here after experiencing much verbal abuse, but hey, maybe he is looking for some abuse. Whatever therapy we can offer each other is good. None of us is perfect, except, as James pointed out “Jesus was a perfect human.” But then, He has an amazing father.
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By: Poolman on August 30, 2009
at 4:14 PM
Shannyn Moore had a good post regarding Lennie, a gal that was hacked up by a machete almost 2 years ago in Alaska. Some might remember the gruesome story. It is worth the read and gives one perspective how some would benefit from true healthcare reform passing in this country.
It is good to hear from all sides on this issue. I have been very fortunate to be healthy for my life. The longest I have spent in any hospital was when I was 14 and dislocated my elbow during a game of keep away/basketball. Then it was for only 3 days, and only because I had a weak pulse in that arm and they were monitoring me. But all I remember about that time was flirting with the nurses and getting to cruse the halls in a wheelchair racing with some of the other kids that were in the same ward as I. Other than that, the most time I have spent with any doctor was during the discussion of his or her swimming pool that I was going to build for them.
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By: Poolman on August 30, 2009
at 3:46 PM
James, I’ve enjoyed reading your insights. I’m a horse farmer, hay farmer, and rancher. I still vote D because they were the ones who saved our asses.
Either way, I hope good weather is coming yer way.
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By: TapDuncan on August 30, 2009
at 3:31 PM
I’m with Donna.
I also think it is time for another Margaret and Helen post.
Could they be on vacation?
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By: Sandra on August 30, 2009
at 2:24 PM
Rita, maybe some people believe that Obama is “only” black. I think most of us know that he is mixed.
In Hawaii, he is “hapa” (half/half or mixed). He lived most of his childhood years here. Those are important formative years. Hawaii isn’t perfect, but it is a wonderful place to be raised. There is discrimination here, but it is polite discrimination (unless you act like an arsehole).
Michelle Obama was quoted – and in all places I saw the quote on an ebay sale for an Obama dashboard nodder – “To understand Barack, you need to understand Hawaii”.
Here, we would probably think he was black, and upon finding out his mother was white, we would say, “Oh! You’re hapa!”
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 30, 2009
at 2:20 PM
not hate at all. Not in the least and that’s a pretty silly thing to say. I’m simply pointing out that, in my experience, James (a) always has to be right; and (b) always uses an exchange to point out what he apparently considers to be his superior insight.
And, Anonymous, I hardly appear to be the only person who is taking exception to James.
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By: Donna on August 30, 2009
at 1:53 PM
OH. James killed someone. NOW I understand why he is nothing but a circus freak now. It ALL makes since.
Okay…rant away. I get it now.
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By: Sandra on August 30, 2009
at 1:33 PM
Sunday afternoon Donna hate.
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By: Anonymous on August 30, 2009
at 1:32 PM
James–you truly don’t miss an opportunity for self-aggrandizement, do you?
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By: Donna on August 30, 2009
at 12:40 PM
On the “bi-racial” p.o.v. I am bi-racial – although I don’t think of myself that way. I’m just me – bitchy, snarky, lovin’ my animals & family, and so on. Now according the EEOC officer at UF when I worked there I was considered a “double with “oomph” – a minority minority female. That is, I’m a member of a small ethnic minority within a larger ethnic minority group. . .very annoying because I’ve never considered myself a member of either of the groups. Whenever I fill out forms asking about this, I usually write in, as I’ve said before, 5K/10K for race, or some snark about walking rather than racing. . . I had to fill out one of those forms when I was in hospital – wrote “Race Cars Not Dogs” & under religion I chose to write “narcissism”. They were not amused.
But, anytime I hear someone complain that Barack Obama is biracial and therefore half white I do wonder what’s so frightening about his other half that they get so upset? No one complained about W ignoring his English side or his whatever side. . . for those of us who are mutts, we define ourselves by culture and heritage, not by race. For those who insist we define who we are by race, STFU.
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By: Greytdog on August 30, 2009
at 11:57 AM
Yes, Susan in CT,
that is exactly what I was trying to do. Thank you.
Anonymous,
Yes, I am happy now. Supremely happy.
Donna,
Sorry you missed my point.
We told stories good and bad at my cousin’s recent memorial service. She wanted it that way. She was an inspiring woman, but she didn’t want us to remember her without her faults.
I brought up Mary Jo Kopechne because much of the press downplayed the horrible way she died. Ted Kennedy redeemed himself, but Mary is still dead. It would make a good sermon to illustrate personal redemption . Resenting your slur is hardly worth the energy today
Judith,
That is one of the best questions in a long time.
I agree making war too costly to fight is the only way to stop it. I don’t know how we can squelch the profit on a world scale.
Maybe a world government with checks and balances to solve disputes as in the United States and other democratic republic would work. Or as some Indian tribes did–settle disputes with athletic games.
Nuclear weapons were useful to keep the West and Soviet Union from directly attacking each other, because each side didn’t want to risk blowing the world to smithereens. Obviously that is not a long term solution against a nihilstic opponent.
Thomas,
why don’t you move out of the peanut gallery and actually think . Answer Judith’s question.
Poolman,
“live by by believing and not by seeing…” I like that.
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By: James on August 30, 2009
at 11:37 AM
People of mixed race, like Obama, have had to put up with prejudice from both whites and blacks. Blacks will reject him as being part white, and whites would reject him for being black. His dark complexion would have kept him with the blacks in a segregated society.
Obama identifies himself as a black man, and that is how the world sees him, so yes, we have a black president. More importantly, we have a moral and intelligent president that happens to be biracial.
In a way, blind people are blessed in that they can’t judge people on looks. We, as seeing folk, haven’t achieved that ability. Many times our understanding and growth is hindered due to making visual judgments that impede our ability to “see” past the physical to the essence. It can and will continue to be a trapping for us.
That is why we live by believing and not by seeing. 2 Corinthians 5:7
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By: Poolman on August 30, 2009
at 10:02 AM
“It seems to me that this war mindset was and is pretty ridiculous. So why is it still going on? The technology of war has become untenable in terms of expense as well as far too deadly to be considered.”
It’s still going on because it’s ridiculously profitable for certain people and they pass on just enough of that profit to the decision-makers.
None of them (either group) or their families are ever exposed to the true cost or to the death. It’s all profit, with zero risk for them. And, like water, money will always find a way.
So, the only way I can think of to stop this is to somehow stop the profit. Without that, they have no reason to continue and will look to find their money elsewhere. It would likely be just as ridiculous, but maybe a bit less damaging.
Ideas, anyone?
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By: judith on August 30, 2009
at 9:44 AM
Margaret and Helen are Fantastic!!! James…not so much.
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By: Thomas on August 30, 2009
at 9:25 AM
Rita, I can not speak for M&H but I will venture to guess they haven’t forgotten the president’s mother was white and his father was black. I dunno that is just a feeling I have!
If I remember correctly,Obama in one of his speeches, said something to the effect that he had a black father from Kenya and a white mother from Kansas and have many relatives of every color in the rainbow (paraphrasing). So he has certainly acknowledged both of his parents races.
I think the explanation to your question has as many answers as there are neighborhoods in this country. It has been MY personal experience that people who have parents from two races refer to themselves as either “mixed” or the race that is the minority. (i.e Anglo/Mexican they refer to themselves as Mexican) OR more often than not just refer to themselves as “light”. I have never heard the term bi-racial except when they had to check the box on some sort of form. One of my friends who is white/black once told me that a person who is mixed has the option of indentifying with the race of their choice or if they choose both.
It is my observation that President Obama identifies as a black man…
But your question is an interesting one (even though I think you meant it as a slam), and I would like to hear what others with more knowledge on the subject have to say.
namaste’
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By: lori on August 30, 2009
at 9:02 AM
A black man STILL isn’t president. Obama is biracial. Why do people seem to forget that???
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By: Rita on August 30, 2009
at 8:04 AM
“I was able to climb inside Ted’s head. That show confirmed what I already knew”
Bully for you James. Are you happy now? You aren’t pissing on anyone, you just always have to be proven correct.
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By: Anonymous on August 30, 2009
at 7:44 AM
Bill Moyers Journal:
MONEY-DRIVEN MEDICINE
*transcript & video
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 30, 2009
at 6:58 AM
It is no answer to say that the Kennedy family will not read this blog and be hurt by what James says. If someone made a racist or homophobic statement here (or anywhere), it doesn’t matter whether it’s read by someone Caucasian or straight: it is no less ugly.
James is no better in his behavior than the noxious Sean Hannity, who said that he would not bring up Mary Jo Kopechne out of “respect” for the family. Hello? Didn’t you just bring her up by telling your listeners you wouldn’t bring her up?
A man died. Whether you agree with his politics or not, he was someone who chose to spend his life in public service. He could have simply enjoyed his wealth and privilege, but he made the decision to go beyond them and he stayed with that decision.
His family and friends mourn him. Those of us who–despite his personal failures–valued and respected his efforts, also mourn him.
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By: Donna on August 30, 2009
at 6:40 AM
Why do I think James wasn’t pissing on Kennedy, but acknowledging the various facets of Kennedy’s story? I’ve heard quite similar commentary on the news, and it wasn’t considered throwing dirt but rather telling the story.
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By: Susan in CT on August 30, 2009
at 6:39 AM
NO COMMENT!
.
.
.
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 30, 2009
at 6:10 AM
Amen Palin!
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By: lori on August 30, 2009
at 3:56 AM
james is no fool, he knows exactly what he is doing
it is not the first and wont be the last time he comes to this blog to piss on anything we have respect for
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By: PalinShutUp on August 30, 2009
at 2:58 AM
Welcome back for a brief bit, Dear Jean, and mahalo for the history lesson.
James, the demons of Vietnam are indeed great. You killed and you still are paying for it. Shit happened, people died. We all will die one day.
I am sorry for your angst, and I hope being in this parlor helps. You are amongst compassionate as well as irritated company here. Scrolling is a blessed privilege.
I used to think that Ted Kennedy was a spoiled scum bag after the Mary Jo incident, but it became secondary after the great works he did. From tragedy and loss, he became a better man, for all of us. He overcame, and let anyone who is perfect throw the first stone. Evidently Rush Limbaugh thinks himself perfect.
In a sense, his death may serve an even greater cause – his passing can be the banner for universal health care. It cannot come too soon for my husband and I, as well as our grown up kids.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 30, 2009
at 1:52 AM
Okay James, I am assuming you are thinking back to Viet Nam, remember you were an enlisted man, you went and did what you were ordered to do. If you need to talk to some one please do, a professional or a clergyman. You have no idea nor do I, what mental hell Teddy Kennedy put himself through, but you want him damned by one and all even now, but you say “I don’t need my friends giving me side long glances ….” Quit lying to yourself, you have no empathy.
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By: Anonymous on August 29, 2009
at 11:48 PM
I just finished watching the American Experience, a documentary on the Kennedys on Public television, and the thrust of the story was almost exactly as I posted here. I knew I was right, because though extrapolation of what I already knew about trauma and guilt, I was able to “climb” inside Ted’s head. That show confirmed what I already knew.
Unlike most of the network news readers, the narrator did not gloss over Mary Jo’s death and Kennedy’s failure to report the accident for ten hours. Kennedy was not quite the same afterward, and in several ways, it contributed to the failure of his presidential bid in 1980.
Ted’s causing Mary Jo’s death also made Joseph lose the will to live. When Teddy told his father who had had a stroke, Joseph rolled his head back and said nothing. He quit eating much and died in 1969. Surely Ted carried the guilt of his father’s death with him also. Tapes of Ted at Mary’s and Joseph’s funerals showed a man in agony.
As the show closed, the narrator said “Joseph Kennedy was willing to pay any price for power, and in the end he never dreamed the cost would be so high.” That generation of Kennedys lived an American tragedy worthy of a Shakespearian play.
Farona Harrop’s latest article printed in the Omaha World Herald today also alluded to what I wrote. Between the two extremes of Kennedy lovers and Kennedy haters resides the middle ground which harbors a more accurate picture of Ted Kennedy. I share her feelings.
So, Francis, in light of the two sources I just saw and read which support my views, I should care what you think, when I know I am right?
SarahPalinshutup,
None of the mourning Kennedy family will read this so what I wrote won’t hurt them. I was lamenting how reporters glossed over the death of woman who did not deserve to die and how it likely affected Ted. I could have slung dirt, but I didn’t.
At least one commentator, the narrator of the American Experience documentary said roughly what I did, so I am vindicated and satisfied. Now, I’m as tired of the subject as I am of Sarah Palin.
Anonymous,
I am not wallowing in self pity. I just judge myself more harshly than Ted Kennedy. My situation was not like Kennedy’s but thinking of Mary Jo gave me a flashback. When that happens, I sometimes vent to get it out of my system. Deaths not death is more accurate. You really don’t want to know.
I don’t need my friends giving me side long glances or feeling sorry for me. They see a kind, cheery man with a sense of humor who helps people. Not even my wife knows the full story, and I plan to keep it that way. It is your misfortune that I let things slip out once in a while where it is safe and no real people are around to know.
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By: James on August 29, 2009
at 11:10 PM
I’m tired, emotionally & physically worn tonight. Today has been exhausting, not because of physical pain but because of loss. Ted Kennedy so informed, affected, and help shape my life. . .and while I am at a loss for words, an inability to articulately explain what he meant, means to me, I find myself saying “yes” to this very simple statement:
“The greatest expectations were placed upon Ted Kennedy’s shoulders because of who he was, but he surpassed them all because of who he became,” the president said. “We do not weep for him today because of the prestige attached to his name or his office. We weep because we loved this kind and tender hero who persevered through pain and tragedy — not for the sake of ambition or vanity, not for wealth or power, but only for the people and the country that he loved.”
James, continue on, if it gives you comfort, with your self-righteousness in overlording whatever sins you feel Ted committed and failed to do the penance you feel is justified. Because though you condemn him, he worked his ass off for YOU. I hope when you reap whatever bitterness you are sowing, that you will find, instead, the same peace, the same compassion of spirit, that guided Ted Kennedy through his life and death.
And now, I am going to bed because there’s a lot of work to do. And I am moving forward because in a very small way, I am part of Ted’s legacy. The work begins anew. The hope rises again. And the dream lives on.
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By: Greytdog on August 29, 2009
at 9:19 PM
I just wanted you to know how much I love this blog – I have it linked on my own blog – hopefully some new people will head your way and catch the wisdom of Margaret and Helen.
Keep up the good work.
— hippieprof
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By: hippieprof on August 29, 2009
at 9:19 PM
Hi gang,
I’ve been out of the M&H loop with no time to read comments, so haven’t a clue of what’s going on here. I imagine the health care ‘debate’ drags on. But I am taking a short break to share with you something that might, just might give you pause to think about.
During my recent hiatus, I read “The History of the Peloponnesian War” by the Greek historian, Thucydides. I like to read on airplanes and in bed at night until I can’t keep my eyes open any longer. I must admit, often I don’t get beyond a page and a half.
In case you aren’t up on this book, it’s a history of the 27 (that’s TWENTY-SEVEN!) years war between mainly Athens and Sparta, Greece, 431-404 BC. Greece was anything but a united country, just a collection of feuding little city-states. They did manage to come together to defeat the powerful invading Persian Empire. However, as soon as that war was over they got busy quarrelling among themselves. (Does this sound anything like the mentality of our present political climate?)
Athens was and is located in the area of ‘Attica’ on the Greek mainland. Sparta is on the very large island of Peloponnesus, connected to the mainland by only a narrow isthmus. Athens and Sparta were only about 100 miles apart. Traditionally, as we all know, Athens developed great literature, the arts and philosophy that has been handed down to Western civilization ever since. Sparta. Well, their whole society was devoted to nothing else but war. Little boys about the age of 6 were separated from their families and went into lifelong military training. Sparta was mainly involved in land operations while Athens developed an extensive navy. Also by then, Athens had become an Empire with colonies all over the Aegean Sea and beyond.
Here’s how the Peloponnesian Wars went. During the winter, both Athens and Sparta were busy making and breaking alliances with other city-states. Lots of ‘diplomatic’ speechifying going on. Then in the spring they each decided whom they were going to war with. Their military consisted mostly of helots (slaves) and ‘hoplites’ (citizen soldiers. Socrates was one. Thucydides himself was an Athenian General). First they ‘laid waste the country side’. It was similar to Sherman’s scorched-earth-march-from Atlanta-to-the-sea-policy. Then each side lined up and almost as if a whistle blew, the battle started in or around the walls of the city. Whoever ‘won’ usually killed most of the men and took the women and children into slavery. Back in those days, slavery was the result of captives in war and had nothing to do with race.
Then there was an armistice long enough for each side to collect their dead off the battlefield. Also the ‘winner’ carted off all the wealth and valuables that were not nailed down as the ‘spoils of war’ and burned the defeated city to the ground. The ‘winner’ put up a trophy to commemorate the ‘victory’ and went home in triumph for the winter. Of course, they arrived home to great glory and went to the ‘pagan’ temples and made sacrifices. Then they hunkered down for the winter to plan the ‘expedition’ for the next spring. Sometimes a city knew it couldn’t win against the power of Athens so it capitulated in order not to be enslaved and destroyed.
If you are interested, you can read the FAMOUS “Melian Dialogues” from this book. You can find a summary on Wikipedia with also the text under “External Links”, the “Melian Dialogues”. (Better still, you can read all 682 fine print pages of the entire damn book!) As I’m sure most of you know, Wikipedia lets ANYONE edit the entries. So the “Melian Dialogues” there are only part of the text and quite different from the book I read. It probably has something to do with the translations from the original Greek, and also the personal bias of the translator/editor. THERE IS A LESSON THERE! TO REFRAIN FROM TAKING LITERALLY AS FACT WHATEVER YOU READ OR SEE!
Melos was a tiny little island and Spartan colony in the Aegean Sea. Athens wanted it for an ‘ally’. It was strategically located to Athens’ advantage. Melos would have to pay annual tribute, provide military personnel, ships, etc., and essentially be subject to Athens. The dialogues give all the arguments on both sides and the results.
This went on, year after year, over and over again for TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS!!!!!
Of course, ultimately, the Roman Empire conquered the Greek. Then along came other Empires, the Ottoman, the British, etc. The American Empire???? I certainly hope not!
It seems to me that this war mindset was and is pretty ridiculous. So why is it still going on? The technology of war has become untenable in terms of expense as well as far too deadly to be considered. We are no longer lining up shoulder-to-shoulder, eight or so deep with shields, swords and javelins to go out and meet the ‘enemy’.
War has traditionally been a guy thing. Let’s get over it. We could better spend our time and money on issues that benefit humanity rather than destroy it. (Like health care, education and infrastructure for all our people???)
Aloha! 🙂
Auntie Jean
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By: Jean on August 29, 2009
at 9:13 PM
Whose dealth are you responsible for James? You have hinted at this before, just tell the story and quit wallowing in self-pity.
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By: Anonymous on August 29, 2009
at 8:52 PM
Great post Helen. I couldn’t possibly agree more.
Anatomy of American Ignorance – Part 1
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By: Bill Noxid on August 29, 2009
at 7:18 PM
James,
You are just pathetic. You really are. I have been followling your comments for months. Sometimes you come across as someone who has something to offer. But lately you seem to have gone off the deep end.
You are a fool. You are really just a complete and total ass. Now just do this place a service and leave.
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By: Francis on August 29, 2009
at 7:10 PM
Helen,
First off let me tell you how much I love your writing. Top shelf stuff. I mean it really. Second, I was hoping you could answer a question for me. Why do you think so many seniors that are taking advantage of medicare are so opposed to government health care? This one really makes me scratch my head. We already insure the people that are the most costly to insure (senior citizens), and I’m no economist or financial whiz, but I would assume that the best way to strengthen the system would be to let younger people buy into it. Keep it up, you lovely ladies rock my world.
D
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By: Dan on August 29, 2009
at 6:30 PM
Hi thymeCher,
GK was here yesterday.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 29, 2009
at 6:11 PM
We haven’t heard from Grandma Katie in awhile. How you doing in this heat dear?
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By: thymeCher on August 29, 2009
at 5:58 PM
WWJD / Good one Whirled 🙂
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By: thymeCher on August 29, 2009
at 5:53 PM
W.W.J.D.???
Who Would Jesus Deny ???
8) ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 29, 2009
at 5:29 PM
uh
things to do people to see
correction as I rush out the door
ta ta
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By: PalinShutUp on August 29, 2009
at 3:33 PM
are we to suffer another litany from you about Kennedy now or are you done?
I wont be around to read it btw
things to do please to see
have a nice day
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By: PalinShutUp on August 29, 2009
at 3:32 PM
oh please james stop it, I didnt mean anyone’s life was dirt what I meant was that you cant wait to come here and dredge the man’s faults and misdeeds while his family is mourning him
I would expect that from a troll
are you or are you not?
sometimes I cant make up my mind
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By: PalinShutUp on August 29, 2009
at 3:30 PM
The sights and sounds of death never leave. They are horrible as are the lives cut short. Maybe it is why remembering Mary Jo is important to me.
Knowing you caused someone to die is shattering on some level. If you are a normal human, I don’t think you can get over it. Maybe it explained some of Kennedy’s later bar hopping behavior. Maybe Mary’s death made Kennedy become so determined to change lives or to become a legislative work horse instead of show horse.
“And it starts sometime around midnight.
Or at least that’s when you lose yourself
for a minute or two
As you stand under the bar lights
And the band plays some song
about forgetting yourself for awhile…
But you know that she’s watching
She’s holding her tonic like a cross
The room’s suddenly spinning…
And so there’s a change in your emotions
And all those memories come rushing
like feral waves to your mind…
And you feel hopeless and homeless
and lost in the haze of the wine…
Your blood boiling
your stomach in ropes.
Oh,and when your friends say,
‘What is is it? You look like you’ve seen a ghost.’
Then you walk under the street lights
And you’re too drunk to notice
that everyone is staring at you.
You just don’t care what you look like,
the world is falling around you.”
Been there done that. I’ll bet Ted did too. Probably Laura too.
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By: James on August 29, 2009
at 2:15 PM
Not so. If you believe the Bible, Jesus was a perfect human.
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By: James on August 29, 2009
at 1:48 PM
imperfect, humans = redundant
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By: lori on August 29, 2009
at 1:41 PM
The networks hinted at Kennedy’s seamy personal side, and had I wanted to throw dirt, I would have.
Kennedy and Laura Bush are imperfect humans, and each caused someone to die. They didn’t plan to, but they did. To hide lost lives as the press tries to do is wrong. I am judging the press more harshly than Kennedy.
Those lives are not “dirt.” They were snuffed out because of stupid mistakes, and they are gone forever. Kennedy and Laura seem to have redeemed themselves, but two people are still dead. The press seems too willing to air brush them away when they must have had a profound effect on how Ted and Laura lived the rest of their lives.
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By: James on August 29, 2009
at 1:34 PM
I forgot log in again.
Mary Jo’s parents even said they would vote for Kennedy during his failed attempt to snatch the presidential nomination from Carter, but it doesn’t change anything. The tragedy was not Kennedy’s. It was Mary’s.
Kennedy caused her to die when she might have lived if he had cared more about her life than his own welfare. It is irrelevant whether God or anyone forgave him.
Mary’s death is something Kennedy had to live with all his life. I wonder if he forgave himself. In the end, that is all that mattered to Kennedy. I know from personal experience self forgiveness is almost impossible. Faces of the dead never leave.
One can forgive an action, but still acknowledge its results. Likewise for Laura Bush. Her accident which made someone die was swept under the rug the same as Mary Jo’s, and it was wrong. I am only judging Kennedy on his actions that night, and I can do the same to Laura.
I remember hearing about the accident, but reports I heard didn’t even give us a name. I am not judging them for the people they became. I am judging the press for trying to ignore people who died because their deaths were inconveniences which tarnished political resumes.
Cheney is a different case. He didn’t personally “torture” anyone. He approved what he thought was good for the country at the time. Right or wrong, he probably believes he did the correct thing. The Kennedy- Bush related deaths were accidents. Whatever Cheney did was premeditated. It is a big difference.
I could tell you how I judge myself more harshly than any of those folks, but you wouldn’t be interested.
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By: James on August 29, 2009
at 1:13 PM
Thank you Helen, you gave me a little hope today.
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By: Jeff W on August 29, 2009
at 1:09 PM
Lori, loved your posts. Today, I understood much better the two schools of thought in this country by watching Senator Kennedy’s funeral. There are those who like to hang on to the past and those who like to move beyond it and use the past to build a better future. The battles going on in the political arena have to do with these two schools of thought. And so, a young senator was involved in an accident that killed a young woman. It was an accident. He left the scene, the epitome of bad judgement. He was filled with fear and did not think beyond that. Fear is the greatest ennemy of man. It blinds us and pushes us away from God or the lifeforce.
Senator Kennedy lived to accomplish much for this country. It is about redemption. He used his talents and time in the Senate well and fought for the right of all. I, for one am grateful that he was here.
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By: Easier on August 29, 2009
at 12:58 PM
The program for Teddy’s funeral.
Click to access 47d53e97b2c667bac5_a3m6ii1zo.pdf
james, would have been nice if you waited till the guy is buried to dredge the dirt on him, just out of simple human respect
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By: PalinShutUp on August 29, 2009
at 12:47 PM
there goes james kicking the dirt around
so what else is new
‘Socialism is not what this country is about.
I dont want to pay for yours, i want to pay for mine.
If you have a problem with that, you need help.’
ccw = ignoramus
I guess ccw doesnt pay taxes LOL!!!
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By: PalinShutUp on August 29, 2009
at 12:38 PM
Liberalism or conservatism are mental predelictions independent of political philosophy. A socialist, for example, who espouses old verities would be the conservative while someone who espoused capitalism in a new environment would be the liberal. It was so when the Soviet Union fell.
Standards and definitions change with time. JFK was a cold warrior who believed in tax cuts. He was also initially suspicious of Martin Luther King who’s protests he believed had the potential to hurt the war effort. By the standards of the day, especially when measured against southern Democrats who opposed civil rights, Kennedy was a liberal. Now, he is closer to a moderate Republican.
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By: Anonymous on August 29, 2009
at 12:26 PM
In the Kennedy/ Cheney comparison, it seems to me that Kennedy felt and showed remorse for his actions (in regard to Mary Jo’s death). He spent the rest of his life trying to live a better life and giving to others.
Cheney does not appear to feel remorse and is proud of his actions (in regard to torture). He thinks it was right, and would do it again if he were in position to. He doesn’t act as if he’s done anything to be ashamed of.
I don’t expect our leaders to be perfect and not make mistakes. But I hope they will acknowledge mistakes and learn from them.
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By: kitkat on August 29, 2009
at 12:12 PM
Mary Jo’s mother forgave Senator Kennedy and I am confident my God has as well. Perhaps us bystanders could learn a thing or two?
Who among us is without sin, or bad judgement? Not I said the duck…
WWJD? mmmmmm forgive?
Mary Jo is not forgotten, just as the person who died in the accident caused by Laura Bush is not forgotten. They will live on in the memories of all who witnessed their being.
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By: lori on August 29, 2009
at 11:57 AM
Has anyone read the thoughts of Seneca, the Roman Philosopher? With all of the anger in the country now days, it would be good reading for us all.
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By: Anonymous on August 29, 2009
at 11:53 AM
I forgot to log in. In case there is any doubt. I posted the two anonymous screeds.
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By: James on August 29, 2009
at 11:49 AM
One thing about Senator Kennedy was his being honest about who he was. It didn’t matter if liberalism was so out of fashion some denied they were liberals, Teddy was always forthright and didn’t try to hide his views. And he worked both sides of the street to achieve his goals. Republicans also declared him their friend.
However, one person has been sadly neglected all of these years–Mary Jo Kopechne. Lynn Vincent who researched and co- wrote “Cons:Sex, Crime, and Corruption” and described the events of July 19, 1969.
Kennedy and friends were celebrating a with a post regatta party after Kennedy finished with a respectable rank in the top ten of the race. The group drank heavily. Kennedy drove Mary home after she said she was tired. As we know, Kennedy’s car plunged into the water.
Kennedy freed himself, while Mary Jo found a small air pocket at the rear floorboard of the overturned car. She waited for rescue for possibly as long as five hours. She did not drown, she died of asphyxiation.
Ted walked back to the party and tried to concoct a story as his cousin Joe Gargan later recalled. His cousin refused and later Rose disowned him at least for awhile. Family connections and a probable bribe to the family left Ted charged with merely leaving the scene of an accident. Kennedy’s cowardice and desire to avoid jail and ruin killed a young woman.
Mary Jo was a young liberal woman with a future. She had gone to Alabama during the civil rights era, and she had become an experienced political operative for someone so young. The woman’s movement was just becoming successful, and it is possible Mary Jo could have used it to propel her into a successful political career.
Kennedy was a good legislator with many good qualities but on July 19, 1968, he was a coward who used his name and money to escape what for most of use would have been jail time.
The notion that Chappaquiddick was a “tragedy” who’s main victim was Ted and the Kennedy “legacy” is wrong. Mary Jo deserves better.
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By: Anonymous on August 29, 2009
at 11:46 AM
Ladies, I can’t tell you how much I enjoy and appreciate what you are doing here. For the past 14 years, I have lived in San Francisco, where progressive values abound but plain-spoken common sense is hard to find. In your blog, I hear the sensible voice of my Texas-born mother, whom I lost to cancer three years ago, and who remained a feisty Texas liberal to the end. Also the voice of my 90-year-old Texas grandmother, and of course Ann Richards and Molly Ivins, who are both sorely missed. You have a new devoted reader.
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By: Craig Daniel on August 29, 2009
at 11:41 AM
Amy Tan, you have no idea. When I was tortured, I learned some things–Don’t leave marks or witnesses. And don’t leave your victim with the capacity for revenge. Most importantly, revenge is sweet.
Beatrice, is that the best you can do? I hope you find help with your identity problems.
I read the Atlantic article, Anne. Paying for our own health care as we do our auto repairs and saving insurance for big things is an interesting concept. Too many of us are detached from the real costs of our health care. I told my representatives but they probably won’t do anything about it.
vgman, a sister in law attended Dort College. A college professor, Dr. Kempers, grew up in Sioux County, and I knew him at Westmar College in Le Mars. His son died in WW11, and the pain stayed with him for the rest of his days. He told us guys in a history class how to legally avoid the draft. I didn’t listen, because I thought it was my duty to serve.
Do your remember the stench of all of the feed lots and people’s saying it was the smell of money. Sioux Center has liberalized a bit, but thirty years ago, the place was shut down on Sundays.
My father in law had a thriving livestock product business but when he reached Sioux County he hit a brick wall because he wasn’t Dutch. He made his Dutch son in law part of the company with the farm a branch office. Then, he did business in Sioux County.
Brule plays good music, in my opinion, and they are nice people. The young woman who plays flute attacks it as she plays. That she is attractive adds to the effect. The patriarch of the group wrote Hidden Heritage which explains his connection with southwest Minnesota and northwest Iowa.
Thanks for the good comments.
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By: Anonymous on August 29, 2009
at 11:04 AM
I just stumbled across this blog for the first time today and I have to say I am laughing so hard that tears are rolling down my face!
Keep it up ladies! This is great!!!
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By: catzfan on August 29, 2009
at 10:50 AM
Hello, all. I’ve been uber-busy lately and haven’t been able to keep up with all of the comments. Oy vey!!
I am sitting on my sofa watching the funeral of Senator Ted Kennedy. The Obamas, Bidens, and Carters are sitting on the front row. The Clintons and Bushes are sitting on the second row. Prior to the arrival of the Kennedy family and the body of Senator Kennedy, each President and First Lady (past and present) were sitting and chatting with one another. Death, as final and permanent as it is, is a magnet that brings opposite ends together to celebrate a life. The fighting and bruhaha between the Left and the Right will resume in just a short time. But for a moment, a brief moment, they met in the middle to honor a man whose presence on the Hill will be missed. That, my friends, was heartening to me.
I hope that everyone is having a relaxing weekend. It looks like rain in Arkansas today, nap weather if I do say so myself.
Love and kindness to all.
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By: OceanGypsi on August 29, 2009
at 10:02 AM
yes VG and that has flip flopped a few times through out the years, IMHO the last flip happened when with JFK, when he was bold enough to stand up to the southern strong hold and champion civil rights… For that and 100000000 other reasons, i am a proud LIBERAL..;-)
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By: lori on August 29, 2009
at 9:54 AM
I agree with you lori,
In our past, different views of progressivism and conservatism have found their way into all parties in our history.
It’s interesting that the foundation of our country, through a social contract, was viewed as “progressive” in light of the Federalist outlook–needing to stronger band together the individual states to further strengthen an increasingly weakened confederation. The first political battles of 1800 showed that the Democrat-Republican party (present day Dems) were the conservative ones wanting to resist the forces being applied by the Federalists. For the early part of the 1800’s the Dems won out. Whigs were then considered “conservative” as the Dems became the progressive movement in regards to power attained by the people. And yet, with the progressive stance, a conservative issue was at the Dems core–slavery. The Republicans would have been the progressive party in the 1850’s and 1860’s.
I think it’s relevant that progressivism is seen as the body of change when it comes to our social contract.
Therein lies our history lesson. Now, it’s Saturday morning and time for recess.
Have a good day everyone.
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By: vgman on August 29, 2009
at 9:49 AM
HRH, I too wanted to understand my opposing view to universal health care. To me is seemed a no brainer and I figured I must be missing something.
I have to say after speaking with some extremely intelligent ( and some not so much) conservatives about this matter I have concluded it all boils down to the basic difference between progressives and conservatives….. Conservatives are fearful of change and resist with all might anything “new”, they cling to their past, the most familiar and the tired ways… progressives look forward with courage and confidence that new and change are things not to be feared but embraced.
When you cut through all the bs that is truly the difference in the thinking of the two parties
A few months back, on Huffingtonpost, I read this comparison. I am sorry to say the authors name accidentally became erased due to the many times I have copied and pasted it… I thought it that good…..
“the progressive feels that a good strategy in life is to ask all to enter and to develop an inclusive atmosphere. to welcome and try to accommodate others. we can all share together and succeed.
the conservative feels that the environment can’t accommodate all and to try to do so would disadvantage the people closest to the myself, my family, my friends, etc.”
they are basic and fundamentally different ways of seeing the world.
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By: lori on August 29, 2009
at 9:31 AM
Bill Moyers With Bill Maher…
PART 2
&
PART 3
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 29, 2009
at 8:41 AM
Greytdog, congratulations on your new knee!!! I know you’ll work hard on you PT, I found many small victorys while doing it. Like, look Mom, I can move it 3 more inches today. And each week when I went back I was given a new exercise. It almost seemed like a reward.
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 29, 2009
at 8:27 AM
CCW, my response to your statement
“Most Americans don’t want anything that resembles Socialism.
Plain and simple.” is always the same. Please describe to me exactly what “socialism” means to you. Please explain to me exactly what it is that you find fearful about it. Is it from boogy man stories you heard as a child in the 50’s or just what exactly is bad. Your later post “I dont want to pay for yours, i want to pay for mine” sounds mostly selfish and a bit childish. Usually children outgrow the “me first and only and it’s mine” when they’re 6 or 7 yrs old, maybe earlier. Are you younger than everyone else who posts here. Are you old enough to operate the computer without parental controls?
I really DO want to understand what those who abhor socialism are afraid of. In current usage, it’s mostly just a word and seems to mean many different things to different people.
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 29, 2009
at 8:24 AM
“I dont want to pay for yours, i want to pay for mine.”
CCW hate to tell you, but you’re already paying for everyone else’s, you just don’t see it.
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By: kitkat on August 29, 2009
at 8:08 AM
Really CCW You would be willing to pay to use EVERY single road you travel or paying an entrance fee to walk around your block at night? You are ok with private corporations taking over our national treasures the Liberty Bell, Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls? You wouldn’t mind your children’s education costing you ten thousand dollars just for a high school education? You are fine with leaving the disabled to languish in despair?…You wouldnt mind some private corporation taking over our national security needs?
On the contrary CCW, our country decided a long time ago there are some things that should not be left up to a capitalistic economical system and I betcha if you would ask MOST people would still agree with that decision. Even the uninformed conservative woman that stood u at a town hall meeting and screamed to leave her medicare alone agrees we DO NEED socialism at least when it comes to basic needs, anddddddddd health care IS a basic need…
So CCW go troll on a site where the bloggers don’t understand what socialism means… Cause that dog wont hunt here.
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By: lori on August 29, 2009
at 7:46 AM
CCW,
By chance, are you eligible for Medicaire?
Did you attend public schools in your lifetime?
Or are you ignoring that some programs by our government are meant to make sure all people have access to equal care, education, and treatment?
Evidence of our social contract, otherwise known as our Constitution. You breathe it, I breathe it, we all breathe it. And thank God, we can make changes along the way!
Health care reform begins the process of making sure all members of this social contract have equal access to health care.
Or perhaps you wish to go back in time….as our host has suggested some people like you prefer.
Take your head out of the sand and stop ignoring the fact that you are not the most important individual on the planet. No one is. And in this part of the world, we have an obligation to each other–SOCIAL.
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By: vgman on August 29, 2009
at 7:33 AM
Look at this lady’s articles; she calls everybody she disagrees with names.
She is pure HATE
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By: CCW on August 29, 2009
at 7:12 AM
Socialism is not what this country is about.
I dont want to pay for yours, i want to pay for mine.
If you have a problem with that, you need help.
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By: CCW on August 29, 2009
at 7:10 AM
CCW, I hope you’ll take the time to read all the well-reasoned comments here. There are hundreds of them. There’s a bit of wackiness as well, and some side-themes, but there are many explanations of why we need a new and different system, whatever name the form goes by. “Socialism” might just mean everyone has an equal opportunity for good health. What’s so scary about that?
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By: Susan in CT on August 29, 2009
at 7:07 AM
Bill Moyers With Bill Maher
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 29, 2009
at 7:00 AM
Most Americans don’t want anything that resembles Socialism.
Plain and simple.
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By: CCW on August 29, 2009
at 6:54 AM
Why do liberals spend most of there articles bad mouthing and name calling?
I guess when you have no logic and no common sense that’s what you get.
Shes full of hate.
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By: CCW on August 29, 2009
at 6:51 AM
President Obama’s
Weekly Address 8/29/09
Lessons and Renewal
Out of the Gulf Coast
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 29, 2009
at 6:27 AM
August 28th 1963:
“I HAVE A DREAM”
PEACE…I mean it. Really! ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 29, 2009
at 6:08 AM
Oh, I just love this interpretation of the opposition–since those folks at the town hall meetings behave so irrationally, and even refrain/forget to comb their hair, any and all opposition to health care reform is ridiculed.
Of course, this is what we’re seeing on TV and in papers–the wackos. This is what the establishment media wants us to see. Many, dare I say most, Americans no longer think for themselves thanks to our education system. So we let the media do our thinking. What if these wackos represent the tiny minority of people who oppose the health care reform? What about the other folks who do not call health care rationing ‘death squads’, but worry about it nonetheless? I believe that even Americans, once they’ve become accustomed to universal socialized health care, will understand fully what that rationing means. And of course there will be rationing, especially in elder/terminal care. Even Obama doesn’t shy away from this topic (look up an interview in New York Times earlier this year).
If you look up Swedish health care in English, mostly you will read that it’s great in every way. Look up ‘Swedish health care problems’ in Swedish and you can read a host of stories by people who have in one way or another been shorted on vital care in a socialized system. People always counter that ‘at least everyone will be covered’. The people is too polite–why can’t we demand a truly better system? Why do we have to always compare this mess with other countries? I don’t believe there is one country on earth where the establishment really cares about its people, more than keeping them well-functioning enough for labor and to some degree reproduction.
What I see is that a terrible health care system will be replaced by another terrible system. The same players currently managing it will remain. Our government is always the same, controlled by the same greedy people, no matter who is ‘elected’ president.
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By: Jo on August 29, 2009
at 12:22 AM
You are “Right On”, Helen. Give Margaret a big mmmwwwwaaahhhh….
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By: Sam Mayer on August 28, 2009
at 10:03 PM
I hope all of you got to see Bill Moyers Journal tonight about the roots of the conflict between medicine and insurance companies.
The point was very clear. Doctors exist for the patient but insurance companies exist for the stockholders. With medical decisions under the control of the insurance companies there is no question whose interests will be served first.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08282009/profile2.html
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By: jsri on August 28, 2009
at 9:50 PM
Good night, rest well, and heal quickly, Greytdog.
Namaste.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 28, 2009
at 9:43 PM
I’m home. The dogs think I’ve been gone like forever. . . and they were horribly starved. . . and no one paid them any attention. . . and . . .they so lie. Trying to navigate into the house while three dogs are going crazed made me almost wish for another night in the hospital. Got settled in, leg propped up and I swear within 5 minutes I had a zillion dog toys on the couch and three faces begging to go outside outside outside. . . I bribed them with treats to leave me alone. It’s been kind of funny – they seem to have taken over the shift thing from the hospital. . . about every hour I’ve had a cold wet nose stuck into my face. . . and the cats are delighted that I am stationary. . . finally managed to dislodged them from my body, the furry little leeches. . .
And now it’s off to bed – a real bed – for a good night’s sleep.
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By: Greytdog on August 28, 2009
at 8:56 PM
poolman sez “There needs to be reform in our food products and get rid of all the government subsidized corn syrup that is in everything, contributing to obesity and diabetes. ”
Sometime in the past year I read that part of the reason that (many) Europeans are healthier and need less medical attention is because MANY of the ingredients that we allow here are banned there.
And yesterday MomsRising sent out a note about Kraft Mac and Cheese: in Europe, they’ve had to take out all the crap, but guess what, that crap is still in the packages here!
http://www.momsrising.org/blog/save-our-mac-cheese/
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By: Susan in CT on August 28, 2009
at 8:44 PM
More reasons healthcare costs are high
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By: Poolman on August 28, 2009
at 8:11 PM
Helen – you are a treasure. A delightful treasure.
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By: C Bell on August 28, 2009
at 7:49 PM
Very well said, and so clearly put! Thank you for making sense in a world where it sometimes seems that sensible people are becoming increasingly rare.
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By: Takuan Daikon on August 28, 2009
at 7:48 PM
Oh God, Greytdog, poor Ann! That was a hard, hard update to read! Thank you, though. I do hope that God will wrap Ann in his comforting embrace and help her as she forges ahead without her husband. She will emerge strong, but what a painful road…
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 28, 2009
at 7:28 PM
Apt description Greytdog! Death panels indeed! Those nightly visits should be banned, safe for people on life support.
Things seemed to have gone well for you, your sense of humor is still intact. Sending all kinds of good thoughts your way.
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By: Easier on August 28, 2009
at 7:20 PM
[…] Shhh! Helen's talking: […]
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By: Cheers and Jeers: Rum and Coke FRIDAY! | RQDC on August 28, 2009
at 6:37 PM
[…] Shhh! Helen's talking: […]
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By: Cheers and Jeers: Rum and Coke FRIDAY! | Bloggers For Change on August 28, 2009
at 6:33 PM
Ladies, you may know this already, but Bill in Portland Maine, who writes Cheers and Jeers every weekday for DailyKos is a huge fan of yours.
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By: Judy Schultheis on August 28, 2009
at 5:53 PM
&H and fans, if you have the chance to see Bette Midler @ Caesars in Vegas run don’t walk to buy your tickets. The divine MISS M knocks it out of the park…. In her opening act she does some palin jokes that had me howling!
Greytdog…. Sending love and light your way…..Godspeed and so true yes WE can..
To all who called out the PUMA sham …. kudos…. PUMA was a FOX NEWS fabrication…. It was just one of their attempts to hijack our national election by media generated propaganda.
Susan in CT Aug 26 10 07 Right on! Campaign reform is about 75 years over due.
Senator Kennedy sent our family a hand written note 6 years ago when my mother passed away from brain cancer…. In his note he encouraged me to be strong in the face of such a sorrow filled time and to celebrate her life….. I wish the same for his family….. I will celebrate his life tonight….. Mr. Kennedy…. Rest peacefully… Salute!
namaste
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By: lori on August 28, 2009
at 5:10 PM
Anne, even though all costs are going up, we spend twice as much per person as those other countries and do not have full coverage for all. Eliminating fraud, implimenting electronic record keeping, concentrating on wellness and preventative care will help keep the costs in check long term.
Much of our health problems are due to poor eating and lifestyle choices. These will have to be improved to make a lasting impact. There needs to be reform in our food products and get rid of all the government subsidized corn syrup that is in everything, contributing to obesity and diabetes.
Then there is tort reform. We have too many lawyers and lawsuits with huge awards given out that continues to drive the cost of insurance premiums that our care professionals have to pay for. We need caps on these lawsuits and elimination of the frivolous ones. Transparency is good. Competition between doctors and clinics and hospitals would be good, not health insurance companies.
Competition between insurance companies we HAVE had all along. They get together and band against us and ration our care. Additionally they complicate their paperwork with much lawyereze that we don’t know what is covered and what is not. These practices have been ongoing and have denied care (rationing) and upped cost (more paperwork for all to deal with and try to decipher). The PRIMARY objective of private health insurance is to make a profit. They have continued to be profitable in this down economy. That should say much for their “contribution” to society. Right now they are spending millions daily to keep the status quo.
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By: Poolman on August 28, 2009
at 4:19 PM
Greytdog….
I’m glad everything went well for you…..keep up the PT…
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 28, 2009
at 4:19 PM
Quick FYI: There is an update on Ann Strongheart at http://anonymousbloggers.wordpress.com/
There’s also info on how to donate to the Education Fund for Ann & Segundo’s children.
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By: Greytdog on August 28, 2009
at 4:18 PM
I’m reading this article in The Atlantic that makes the point that without any kind of reform to address rising costs, giving people access to health care won’t really fix the problem. It’s a valid argument. Even single-payer systems are struggling with rising costs. France is non-profit and still has rising costs, so the problem is something beyond greedy insurance companies or overpaid physicians. This author argues that more competition and transparency in cost would drive costs lower in this business as it does in others. I don’t know. What do you all think?
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By: Anne on August 28, 2009
at 3:53 PM
GReytdog- it is me again.
I have told a few about your “angel” who took care of your hospital expense. In return I have heard several other “angel” stories.
Next week a lady I am on a chat line with goes into the hospiital top h ae both kidneys removeddue to polysystic kidneys. A lady from her church has offered one of kidneys if they match. And think of all the food packages the vilages inAlaska receivied last winter. The stories keep appearing. The nation seems to be filled withu the angels.
Bless you and a speedy recovery.
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By: Grandma Katie on August 28, 2009
at 3:19 PM
Greytdog- I see you make it through the surgery with your usual sharp ming. I had you in my thought s all day yesterday.
So enjoyed your description of the 3am visits to take blood. And to think after the stroke I spent 2 months in a rehab hospital!! After I complained about all t he eggs(scrambled, fried, poached etc) siiiiiiiiiifive days out of 7. I told the nutritionist that my idea of a good breakfast waaas a scone from Starbucks. So in retaliation ffor the last two weeks I was there, every morning I got ansmallscoop of cottage cheese,two triangles of limpp tooast with no butter or jam, a bowl of watery cereal , milk and juice. Took the milk and sent the rest all back. for two weeks!! (I had a can of protein mix my son brought)
So I am very happy to see you made it ok and are your usual cheerful self! Now just recover and back to work with the puppers!!
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By: Grandma Katie on August 28, 2009
at 3:09 PM
‘How did we end up with this plague of inch-deep, self-absorbed, clueless Americans?’
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/video_iserbyt_under_seige_dddoa.html
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By: Poolman on August 28, 2009
at 1:59 PM
Greytdog, may you heal quickly and always keep that great sense of humor. Best medicine of all.
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By: sunshine on August 28, 2009
at 1:31 PM
‘How did we end up with this plague of inch-deep, self-absorbed, clueless Americans?’
they are not clue less they are being paid by the In$urance Companie$ to distract, spread lies, instill fear and panic…
I guarantee you the majority of them will be using that health care once its passed
sending healing vibes to Greytdog
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By: PalinShutUp on August 28, 2009
at 12:09 PM
Oh and thank you all for the positive energy! I’ve been sitting here laughing while typing – the poor LPNs think I’m working – they keep telling me “you need to rest, you shouldn’t be working” – good thing they won’t be able to follow me home!
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By: Greytdog on August 28, 2009
at 11:34 AM
Changing of the guard here. A regular beehive of activity right now – oh and lunch arrived. I have jello, some animal corpse smothered in a wet grey blanket, mashed potatoes (didn’t stir those potato flakes very well though), and some really sad looking lettuce melange. Oh and Coke. Yeah, eat healthy at the hospital! So I jiggled the jello – it’s that really ugly green type – poked at the smothered carcass (phew! LOTSA salt), & said a prayer of remembrance for the long deceased lettuce. I am waiting rather patiently (for me) for my special delivery of fried olives & a mushroom-turkey melt from my favorite deli. . . but I must say, the surgeon was in to check his handiwork and the PT folks are supposed to be later today to bring me my brace & set up my schedule. I hope it’s not too late cuz I’m already making ready to get outta here. . .
And yes, my Cinnabon & coffee arrived – at the same time the surgeon did. So I shared some of the Cinnabon with him. Some. I protect my Cinnabon from infidels.
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By: Greytdog on August 28, 2009
at 11:32 AM
Hey Peas, thanks for that clip of Anthony Weiner on Fox & Friends. I think I’m in love (politically speaking, of course)!
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By: ΔTine on August 28, 2009
at 10:50 AM
Single-Payer progress. Get on board. Real reform. Replace HR 3200, nobody likes it.
http://www.nyegateway.com/2009/08/hr-676-single-payer-to-be-debated-and-voted-on.html
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By: Poolman on August 28, 2009
at 10:27 AM
Greytdog: The true heart of an optomist revealed in your capacity to turn ‘trauma drama’ into light-hearted comedy.
Hospitalization is always serious and you are so on target to be the one in charge of your personal medical present and future. No one looks out for you like you yourself.
Greatest wishes for a speedy exit from the hospital!
Keith in NM
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By: Keith in NM on August 28, 2009
at 10:25 AM
Greytdog, give “em hell” 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
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By: Raji on August 28, 2009
at 9:48 AM
The hospital 3AM death panel + propensity to create medical problems where none previously existed is precisely why I birthed child #2 at home.
After child #1 made his appearance, I had hubby sneak in some red wine for me. Now *that* was a medical necessity. 🙂
Speedy recovery, Greytdog!
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By: ΔTine on August 28, 2009
at 9:16 AM
The death panels are already in place with our current system. I don’t know what Sarah ‘the Quiter from Wasilla’ Palin is talking about (neither does she). Actually we have a much more cost efficient ‘panel’ of one or two. No insurance, no life saving ANYTHING. Have insurance and need something costly, no life saving ANYTHING. So why don’t we just give healthcare reform to those that want it and let those that don’t keep what they have? Oh yeah, that’s what we’re trying to do.
Margaret & Helen: Come Back!
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By: Julie on August 28, 2009
at 9:05 AM
Greytdog,
You had me laughing. And remembering how my friend and I snuck a Big Mac in for another friend in the hospital after being hit by a pick-up truck.
That was pure friendship in high school.
(Big Macs didn’t have the notoriety in 1982 that they have today.)
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By: vgman on August 28, 2009
at 8:38 AM
Greytdog, best wishes on your recovery. Sounds like all went well if you can fight off the death panel 🙂
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By: kitkat on August 28, 2009
at 7:50 AM
Greytdog sez “I found the death panels. Really. It’s the 3AM gotta take your vital signs crew. . . who chastised me for being awake when they came in to wake me up . . ”
I can relate! All those years ago when I was in the rehab-facility third of my recovery from that accident, there were the wee-small-hours sneak-attacks — and I wasn’t there because of illness, just because of breakage!
I got the facility’s physician to let me sign a form that promised I wouldn’t die overnight, and the visits stopped. You, thank goodness, won’t be there long enough to have to work through this — but yeah, no such thing as rest in a hospital.
Mend well, Greytdog! And be skipping and dancing very soon!
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By: Susan in CT on August 28, 2009
at 7:37 AM
I found the death panels. Really. It’s the 3AM gotta take your vital signs crew. . . who chastised me for being awake when they came in to wake me up . . .hello?? Just makin’ your job easier, folks. . . then they give me a sleeping pill that’s contraindicated for my heart condition. . .so it became a game of “well your doctor order it. . .” with witty riposte from wide awake me of “then he needs a new PDR, doesn’t he?” Finally after much confusion & back and forth, the correct sedative came up to the room. . . .and I was told to put away my laptop. One nurse told me I was stubborn! (Me? surely not!)
Breakfast in these places are so much fun. . .I am hoping that a good Cinnabon & a venti Mocha will be snuck in soon. . .
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By: Greytdog on August 28, 2009
at 7:14 AM
What frightens me most about this country today is not the health care debate, the economy, or politicians….it is the stunningly ignorant people screaming and yelling at these town hall free-for-alls. How did we end up with this plague of inch-deep, self-absorbed, clueless Americans?
I am surrounded by people like this in our red state…the ones I know behave like this pretty much everywhere they go. They can’t have a conversation without mentioning a book of the Bible they are reading, or how their daughter is going to be a missionary!, or how this country is going downhill, or how foreigners have ruined America. They’re perfectly happy to drive through the local fast food joint and get a cheap super sized junk food meal from an Indian worker though, or have the Mexicans mow their lawns! And somehow they missed the bible verses about loving other people…(or maybe they have the Intolerance Version that says instead “love other people, but only if they look exactly like you.”).
Unfortunately, they are also raising a new generation of idiots, like the 2nd grader in my son’s class last year who said “If Obama is elected, America will be destroyed.” They are frightened of everything–any change from what their own childhoods were like, people with different colored skin, kids that don’t look like theirs, any family that doesn’t conform to their idea of “Real America”. Most of them have never been further than 200 miles from home, and have no interest in anything happening outside their own circle of privilege. It’s like a microcosm of ignorance, fear and apathy, repeated all across the country.
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By: susan on August 28, 2009
at 6:14 AM
Margaret & Helen, we miss you around here. 🙂
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 28, 2009
at 5:35 AM
You ladies are awesome and the comments are just as entertaining as the articles you write.
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By: Gina on August 28, 2009
at 5:30 AM
To learn I read many times your articles Helen. I wish learn more about you. For much time. In my country all the people sees Obama like a person with a strange power to charm to the others but not any more. Things gone better for the rich people and harder for the rest. That’s all the game.
Tell more about you. All the people wants a time like you said. Helen, ¡ Fantastic.! I am a young politic and i learn more every day here at your blog. More every day…
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By: From Madrid Spain on August 28, 2009
at 4:34 AM
Ron Paul proposed a bill to audit the Fed. Get behind it.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1207/text
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By: Poolman on August 28, 2009
at 12:13 AM
Well, most people don’t do the research and trace the paper trail to see where it is all going. A great example of this is that people in my hometown still get bug eyed when I tell them that we have a surplus in our little town my just millions and that the budget is not what we have left over, it’s just what we spend. And I get these looks like you wouldn’t believe. Like they can’t believe our state has been hoarding out taxes and funneling them for personal use. Proof is everywhere, but the good boy network is hard to get through… but then again, so are peoples skulls.
Sometimes I ask people if they know that the Federal Reserve is a private corporation that can’t as it were legally be audited by the government. A lot of them don’t even know what the Federal Reserve is!!! Talk about unbelievable. The most commonly exchanged piece of paper in America and no one is reading it.
Evey day I wake up and I think it can’t get any more absurd and then LOW AND BEHOLD!!!
😛
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By: Emerald444 on August 27, 2009
at 10:04 PM
Health Insurance Companies are the biggest problem and are the ones denying care, rationing if you will, and all to save the bottom line.
http://sickforprofit.com/
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By: Poolman on August 27, 2009
at 10:01 PM
kitkat sez “But realize that educating ourselves on this healthcare issue has more to do with educating ourselves on the excess profits that are being made by the health insurance companies and how little money is actually going into health care to benefit people.”
I heard today that the head of Aetna’s health insurance division (here in CT) makes SIXTY MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. What if he made ONLY, say, five million? Just think about how many people the remaining fifty-five million would help. How many suits / cars / houses / boats / bathrooms does a person need?
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By: Susan in CT on August 27, 2009
at 9:45 PM
Emerald444: I agree with you that education is important. We all need to educate ourselves on what we put into our bodies and what we can do to stay as healthy as we can. And I’m all for looking to alternative treatments. However, no matter how educated and aware, herbal remedies are not going to cure my mother’s cancer. She jogged 3 miles a day and played tennis 3 days a week. At 69, she looks 55. She eats well, doesn’t smoke, and tho she drinks wine, all in all, she takes care of herself. It turns out she has a genetic predisposition for cancer. Her mother died at 42 from it. At 25, most people rarely if ever go to the doctor. You’re lucky you haven’t been in an accident as Susan described. We aren’t all so lucky.
But realize that educating ourselves on this healthcare issue has more to do with educating ourselves on the excess profits that are being made by the health insurance companies and how little money is actually going into health care to benefit people. It comes down to greed at the expense of people’s health. That is why we are fighting.
I don’t know if your grandma is like my 96 year old great aunt or not, but she has wonderful stories about her youth. I love to listen to her tell how she got her first job and the parties she and her brothers went to and her first apartment living with a friend. I also know that things weren’t as wonderful as she remembers them, but she is remembering the good times.
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By: kitkat on August 27, 2009
at 7:37 PM
John McCain just dishonored his friend, Ted Kennedy, by lying about the healthcare bill, that it would pay for abortions, already illegal and still illegal after a healthcare bill. McCain deserves a lifetime sack of shit award, oh that’s right he’s already got one for nominating Palin for VP.
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By: Anonymous on August 27, 2009
at 7:35 PM
Thanks Whirled Peas for the link on Rep Weiner. He is on Rachel Maddow tonight and she has him on quite often. I think you’re right that he is a bright star on the rise.
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By: kitkat on August 27, 2009
at 7:16 PM
Emerald444: Many of us of all ages DO try our best to take care of ourselves. But even then terrible things happen. I am a person who hasn’t had a flu shot in 35 years, and haven’t had the flu either. I get a cold every couple of years (unless I’m on a plane next to someone who’s hacking and wheezing). I exercise. I don’t drink. I don’t smoke. I don’t eat a lot of crap. BUT one night I was on my way home and got head-ended by a van driven by a reeeeeeeeeeeeally drunk driver. Bam. A month in the hospital, a month in a convalescent home, a month in a rehab facility. Additional surgeries in subsequent years.
A friend who’s a Pilates devotee, who SCUBA-dives, rides horses, and dances, and who drinks only moderately, doesn’t smoke, and eats carefully nonetheless had to have a double mastectomy last year.
They’re pretty sure now that autism ISN’T caused by childhood immunizations, but it happens.
These are examples of why we need some sort of plan that covers everybody.
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By: Susan in CT on August 27, 2009
at 7:07 PM
Hey UAW. I have a question you might be able to answer…..
I overheard a guy at work going on and on about how many assistants Mrs. Obama has. Since you are the only person I know who watches Fox News, and I believe they are the likely source of guy-at-work’s ramblings, can you enlighten me? Are the Repubs haranguing HER now?
Thanks in advance.
Your friend, Maven Δ
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By: Maven Δ on August 27, 2009
at 6:26 PM
Emerald,
If this is your first visit to M&H parlor, Welcome!
It’s refreshing to hear the perspective of a 25 year old–and many of the things you stated were very well thought out.
Your blood-sucking “poly tics” had me laughing.
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By: vgman on August 27, 2009
at 6:17 PM
There are a lot of good points and I think overall a very good post. But I also want to point out a few things that I hope will be reflected upon. The first one is that there are quite a few morons in both parties. The second is that I am 25 years of age and when I was young I would listening to my grandmother speak about life as a child. By no means did I ever think it was perfect. But I came to understand one thing that was true. The was an air of simplicity (comparatively speaking to today’s chaotic mess of business, electronics and a myriad of mental illnesses). And there was also something pure about it. I found myself missing a time I had never even lived.
In today’s world, it doesn’t matter what party you belong to. The goal of government (or anyone in power) is to maintain that power at any cost. Now by no means am I an anarchist. I am merely pointing out the meddlesome ways of our politicians. It seems there is nothing pure about the world I was born into.
Aside from that, I am not a fan of our current President any more than I was a fan of the last. Many people are racist and many people are playing the racist card. But in truth, I don’t like the idea of universal healthcare. Hell, I don’t even go to traditional doctor’s. Ha, for that matter, I haven’t seen a doctor in years and could count on my hands the number of times I’ve been in my life. But then again, fast food isn’t my staple diet and apple cider vinegar still worked for food poisoning, sore throats and acid reflux. But ow many people know that? How many people educate themselves? In my opinion, people need to stop blaming the education system and asking the government to fix it… because they will come in and “fix” it. Educate yourself. Personally, I learned more from reading one book than I did an entire semester in college. People need to stop blaming the doctor’s/insurance companies and stop asking the government to “fix” it because they will fix the healthcare like our education system, like our financial system, etc. Heal yourself. How? Education.
Anyway, I understand a lot of the points here and even agree with some of the principles. But just because the Republican party has made bad choices, doesn’t mean the Democrats are the ones for us. Seems to me that for the most part they are all on the same side anyway, just fighting like brother and sister, but when it comes down to it, they are one big family. After all, the definition of Politics – Poly meaning many and tics meaning blood sucking creatures. lol 🙂
But seriously, if all we listen to are the voices of the television, radio, or paper and never critique even the points we agree with (or our own mind for that matter), we will never learn.
The voice of truth is usually the most quiet. And in politics, it’s not what’s being said, it’s what’s not being said. There is a great book that I think people who like the womens’ posts would really understand. It’s called, “Amusing Ourselves to Death” by Neil Postman. It brings to light a whole new understanding why we are dumbed down.
To conclude, I would just like to say that although as a whole we are becoming a less educated people, there are still some young people who read and think… so don’t give up hope yet.
P.S. The founding fathers also said when asked what type of government they gave the people replied, “A Republic if you can keep it!” And there is a lot about American History that was never in any History text any generation has seen.
Visit Solutions in Commerce if you are interested.
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By: Emerald444 on August 27, 2009
at 5:11 PM
Hey Keith in NM,
“I fear there’s no one to fill the void we now face.”
Keep an eye on this guy…
Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY)
8) ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 27, 2009
at 4:30 PM
Anne, maybe the republican party admires Reagan because he didn’t disgrace himself. They have to find someone to admire 😉
Greytdog, surgery must have gone well since you are up and posting.
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By: Raji on August 27, 2009
at 4:13 PM
Greytdog: Well said. We, the citizens of this great country have just experience a loss that we have only just begun to fathom.
Ted Kennedy was a rich boy that had no need to be the man he was other than his compassion for his fellow man. He fought for us, the average person, with courage and conviction, passion and promise. I know of no other member of either the House or the Senate as selfless as he. While others were representing corporate America, he represented ALL of us.
I fear there’s no one to fill the void we now face.
Keith in NM
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By: Keith in NM on August 27, 2009
at 3:31 PM
Mary Jo Kopechne’s mother granted forgiveness to Ted Kennedy and urged him to remain in the Senate. The people of Massachusetts had the opportunity to remove him from office, and they never did. And frankly, that’s all the forgiveness & redemption he needed. I don’t know if Ted would have made a good president or not. I know he made one helluva fine Senator and that we could use more like him today – people who not only represent the people of their state but understand that they also represent the PEOPLE of THE United States.
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By: Greytdog on August 27, 2009
at 2:03 PM
Honestly the only people I hear talking about Cheney’s shot gun issue are the commedians. And as far as I’m concerned they get to say whatever they want are you are an idiot if you take it seriously.
The real liberals have many OTHER reasons to be concerned about Cheney.
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By: Stacey on August 27, 2009
at 1:51 PM
UAW:
My reply would be this: I’m willing to look past an accident he clearly regrets as he spent the next 40 years of his life trying to make lives better for millions of people. I’m not willing to move past a vice president who still defends a war and policy on torture that even Bush has stopped talking about.
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By: Anne on August 27, 2009
at 1:13 PM
Good ol’ UAW sez “How about Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than Dick Chaney’s shotgun…..”
And Kennedy’s screw-up forty years ago, whatever the causes, was fatal and final. In the 40 years following he has not exactly redeemed himself, you can’t from a situation like that I think, but he’s given a great deal of himself to people he didn’t know. As someone stated, he was able to do more as a senator than he could’ve done as a president.
In 40 years will we think more kindly of Cheney? (Well, I won’t be around, but) somehow I don’t think so — I don’t see him doing anything for ANYbody who’s not connected to him.
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By: Susan in CT on August 27, 2009
at 12:38 PM
Really loved this post. We constantly need this reminder of our recent past. Thank you.
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By: Anita on August 27, 2009
at 12:00 PM
UAW
You are one upon whose nature nurture could never stick!
(That’s my favorite line from a 1967 Disney movie called Bullwhip Griffin)
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By: vgman on August 27, 2009
at 10:36 AM
The SLUT? UAW, were you there? Did you know her?
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By: Susan in CT on August 27, 2009
at 10:33 AM
Helen, where have you gone? Haven’t seen a post in awhile. Everything okay?
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By: Teresa on August 27, 2009
at 10:31 AM
Anne….
How about Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than Dick Chaney’s shotgun…..
Yes both were terrible accidents….but don’t forget the double standard thingy and how most people here have commented….even Helen slammed Chaney for that accident…..
or did Kennedy drown the slut on purpose?????
probably shouldn’t have added the last part…
R.I.P. Ted
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 27, 2009
at 9:47 AM
some thoughts on universal health care and medical health cards….
make everyone 18 and over have one….
make everyone show it when voting(if you vote twice you loose it)
if you don’t vote you loose it….
hope everything goes well Greytdog….
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 27, 2009
at 9:38 AM
Raji:
Thank you for your reply. I think it helps explain why Regan got elected, but not why he’s so admired in the Repubican party. I just want to know.
I have been waiting to get some kind of ani-Kennedy email from my father-in-law. He loves to forward anything that puts down liberals whether there is any truth to it or not. Usually when I look on Snopes.com it’s completely untrue. I think if conservative Republicans who worked with Kennedy respected and admired him, then others should, too. You don’t always have to agree with a person to admire their convictions, and Kennedy’s convictions seemed sincere. And he could actually listen to conservatives and compromised with them to pass meaningful legislation. He did more as a senator than he ever could have as a president. I’m sorry he’s been missing from the discussions on health care.
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By: Anne on August 27, 2009
at 9:07 AM
What do Health Insurance companies do?
What value do they add?
I mean besides…
…denying you coverage…
…to up their profits…
…to give out as bonuses and bribe/lobby Congress not reform Health Insurance.
Been there, done that!
PEACE ~ Δ ~ 8)
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 27, 2009
at 6:23 AM
Bumper Sticker Wisdom
Here are the top 10:
1) My Other Car is a Health Insurance Payment
2) My Car Has Better Insurance Than I Do
3) My Death Panel is an HMO
4) Underinsured Baby on Board
5) Hate Socialism? Repeal Medicare!!
6) Sanctity of Life should not end at Birth!
7) WWJD: Who Would Jesus Deny?
8) My single prayer is single payer
9) The Public GOPtion: Don’t Get Sick
10) GOP: Rest Uninsured America
See more at the link.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 27, 2009
at 6:07 AM
Health Insurance Reform…
…on the back of a napkin!
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 27, 2009
at 5:48 AM
HRH Sofia EQ
Nancy Reagan did have star quality, didn’t she. 🙂
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By: Raji on August 27, 2009
at 4:38 AM
…and #2 is folk-style:
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By: Susan in CT on August 26, 2009
at 8:53 PM
I can’t seem to be able to load two video-links in the same message so let’s see if I can do one at a time. These are lighthearted looks at love and health insurance (a great couple if there ever was one!).
#1 is urban-style:
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By: Susan in CT on August 26, 2009
at 8:53 PM
Lightening up a little: two songs about health insurance and true love, one urban and one folkie:
Boyfriend with Health Benefits
Insurance Plan
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By: Susan in CT on August 26, 2009
at 8:30 PM
Thank god we still have a few smart people left.
The town hall meetings are a black mark on this country, when did it become O.K. to not let someone have a say? I don’t care if you agree with what they are saying, but they do have a right to say it! if you don’t like what you hear, you listen and then give your reply.
I have read the Health care reform bill (yes all 1016 pages of it) and I don’t think there is any thing in it that you could not be in support of,
because ther is nothing in it. The part that should upset everyone is the fact that it makes no sense, has no plan of what or how it would be run. it just leaves it all up in the air.
What we need to do is reform how hospitals charge ($15 for asprin $20 for a cup of jello is B.S.) and then go after the ins. co.
and that includes car ins.
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By: Dan on August 26, 2009
at 8:25 PM
Greytdog, good luck on your surgery tomorrow. Hope all goes well.
About Senator Ted Kennedy, may he rest in peace. He has done a lot for this country.
I usually try to stay out of politics in the workplace. But since I live in a red state, from time to time, I have to defend a liberal position. And so I did today. They are so rude and vocal with their closed-mindedness! A lifetime of work for the public good did no good in some people’s eyes. I stated that Senator Kennedy had compassion for his fellow humans. No, I was told, he belonged in jail, for past misdeeds. And then on to healthcare, the government is trying to take their money and give it to other people. They work for their money and they mean to keep it for themselves. I said, well, nobody asked me before my hard earned money was sent to the wasteland of Iraq. Well, nobody won that argument. That will show me to try to engage people I have nothing in common with.
Greytdog, once again, you had it right about that “survival of the fittest” idea. You really were on to something.
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By: Easier on August 26, 2009
at 7:36 PM
Workers Comp injuries are coded and paid differently from personal health insurance. And premiums for W/C are usually dependent on the type of work being covered. Construction is usually a higher premium – while first responders & state employees seem to have a higher rate of litigation for W/C.
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By: Greytdog on August 26, 2009
at 6:38 PM
Interesting, Kitkat. So, the health insurance industry has actually been doing us a favor, saving the doctors for those of us with insurance. I can’t quite get my brain wrapped around their ‘logic.’
In our area, we have a couple of ’emergency care’ clinics. They seem like a good idea but I doubt they exist in most areas. When Sebastian stomped on a wire from the tree basket and shoved it 2″ into his foot, we took him to emergency care. He doesn’t have insurance and they billed workman’s comp. And he promised to wear better shoes and be more careful about what he stomps
I do wish they would talk about this issue, though. It would make them seem less unfeeling.
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 26, 2009
at 6:30 PM
“For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.” Ted Kennedy Aug 1980
Hope your healthcare dream comes true, Mr. Kennedy. RIP
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By: kitkat on August 26, 2009
at 6:27 PM
Ted Kennedy / Dignity, Honor and Commitment
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By: thymeCher on August 26, 2009
at 6:21 PM
HRH Sofia EQ, here’s something I heard today that got me wondering. On a anti-health reform commercial, it said that if we give 48 million people health insurance, there won’t be enough doctors. Now, do they expect the uninsured to rush to the doctor all at once or do they not realize that those 48 million are currently seeing emergency room doctors when they need a doctor?
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By: kitkat on August 26, 2009
at 6:12 PM
Thank you Palinshutup. I usually skip Bill Maher, he used to be funnier and less annoying, but that was well said. I enjoyed reading it.
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 26, 2009
at 5:35 PM
Raji, about Nancy Reagon.. Did you forget she planned her days based on the stars and their conjunctions. Can’t remember the name of her astrologer (heck, I can’t even spell it) Many of us felt Presiden Raygun had early onset alzheimers disease. My opinion of them has never changed, and is proving to be more and more correct.
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 26, 2009
at 5:28 PM
Disclaimer… took me awhile to type this with my poor arthritic fingers so maybe you all were already talking about it… James and Katherine seem to be in time out, maybe I can fill their shoes. …
While we wait for Margaret or Helen to come up with another topic to discuss, as someone above said, let’s talk about health care. No one seems to be talking about the fact that when people ‘just go to the emergency room if they don’t have health insurance and are sick, SOMEONE PAYS. True, it’s probably not (but sometimes IS) the person being treated, but SOMEONE does pay, and it’s not God I don’t know the exact process, but it seems that all those $26 aspirin and other super inflated services charged to the uncomplaining insurance companies, and to many numb and suffering patients are really just a subsidy to cover services hospitals deliver but can never collect on. Sure, it gets the hospital the funds it needs to stay in business and provide very necessary services to us all, but it disguises the problem. AND it encourages corporations to be dishonest in their billing practices.
Another way for medical service providers to ‘make gravy’ is to bill for services that are never delivered. I know of a woman who went to an incontinence clinic for, ahem, incontinence. She had the checkup and decided not to do anything, but when she got her copy of the bill sent to Medicare (I’m new to Medicare so I’ve never seen the way this works but my insurance company sent me a copy of the bill when they did my hip and it was shocking so I’m assuming it works similarly with Medicare)… , she found they had billed Medicare TWICE for a procedure they had never performed. Now, some people (right wing conservatives?) might say it’s the government’s fault for accepting the bill and paying it. I say, it is the greed of the clinic, making hay on someone’s problem. I don’t know what percentage of billings are this fraudulent. I hope pretty small. None the less, it increases the cost to Medicare and it makes our government look bad, like they can‘t figure our what‘s going on, even though they‘re just trying to keep people healthy and provide the services we want.
These specialized clinics that treat specific not-life threatening problems seem to popping up like mushrooms. I think they’re real gold mines in some cases. The one I mentioned above advertises on billboards all over our county, and while I’m sure they help some people, I’m also sure they show a nice profit after they pay the practitioners a really good salary. They’re businesses, people!!! In our capitalist society, they are lauded.
I would like to see… more general health clinics for people who need them in places where they need them, ie where there are few, if any general practitioners. If government health care could fund these by paying for the care given, our health care costs would probably either go down or at least level out. With public insurance that competes directly with insurance companies, (thereby keeping the insurance companies a little more honest and keeps drug and care costs down just by being) people could pay for clinic visits with their (government or private) insurance. Maybe an incentive in rates could be allowed for areas where no one wants to be a doctor (you know, like Alaska or Oklahoma. (I was entertained for many years by Northern Exposure, back in the, what, 80’s, can’t quite remember exactly) If every one had the right to an annual physical and was told their blood sugar or cholesterol or whatever was bad and they will DIE or have a leg amputated or worse, and they should start changing their habits, by someone with authority, they just might start being better, healthier people. I still think the HMOs have the right idea. Encourage healthy living so you have to treat fewer sicknesses.
And then I want to talk about our education system, where teachers are not respected by the parents who feel they are somehow not part of the problem. If children are brought up in homes where learning and reading are honored, the children grow up to be readers and learners. The Indians, Chinese, and Japanese know this. The children of our fellow Americans all want to grow up to be like Britney or whoever is currently the STAR
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 26, 2009
at 5:20 PM
The Fight Of A Lifetime
In lieu of flowers, let’s pass health insurance reform.
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 26, 2009
at 4:43 PM
Stacey, no harm, no foul!
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By: imaginistaphoto on August 26, 2009
at 4:16 PM
Anne, you brought up an interesting question. I am going to approach that question from my personal point of view from facts that I remember. When my husband, a native Floridan, and I moved back to Florida in 1970, we registered to vote as Republicans because there was no registered Republican party in FL. our way of making a statement. The Nixon affair was a shock and an embarrassment to those of us young republicans trying to break the Democratic stronghold, similar to the young democrats of today trying to break the Republican stronghold.
I think we wanted to recover our image. I always felt Carter was elected because he represented the exact opposite of Nixon. For many of us, watching a POTUS wear sweaters at the White House and refuse to serve wine with State dinners was another embarrassment as we felt this was not how we wanted to be represented internationally.
So my belief is when Reagan appeared on the scene with all his charisma, he represented a new world. Nancy added that dash of glamour so missing from the Carter years. People were looking for an idol as Jackie had set the stage. As history has shown, Reagan did not have a clue how to govern but Nancy did.
Then as it is now, it was all about the image of POTUS not the government. That idea is what needs to change.
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By: Raji on August 26, 2009
at 4:12 PM
O M G
freaking hysterical
Bill Maher sometimes makes sense
‘…And these are the idiots we want to weigh in on the minutia of health care policy? Please, this country is like a college chick after two Long Island Iced Teas: we can be talked into anything, like wars, and we can be talked out of anything, like health care….’
New Rule: Just because a country elects a smart president doesn’t make it a smart country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-smart-president_b_253996.html
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By: PalinShutUp on August 26, 2009
at 4:07 PM
Oh, and sorry about spelling republican wrong.
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By: Stacey on August 26, 2009
at 3:15 PM
I think you answered your own question Anne – it was because he made people think that government is evil and that struck a cord with replubicans. I think the charisma didn’t hurt either.
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By: Stacey on August 26, 2009
at 3:13 PM
Hi –
This is a cool and humorous blog site. Here’s the America I DO NOT want back.
I grew up in a time in the late 70’s/early 80’s, where every Thursday in eighth grade, all of us were sent to an auditorium to watch movies. Who knows what the teachers were up too… lol.
Well, these movies were all full of “scare-the-crap” out of you tactics to get you motivated to save the world.
Here were the topics:
1. America is strip-mining our land into oblivion. This must change.
2. America is too dependent on oil & rock shale for energy. This must change.
Geez – what has changed. Not much. In Illinois, we are embarassingly the leaders of coal mining. Strip mining of it. Nothing has changed.
We all know what a disgrace the USA is in depending on oil. Thirty years after those film strips in 8th grade. Where is the innovation and why does the US not invest in SUCCESSFUL R&D that gives tax-benefits to those companies that show not only a success of technology, but success of a technology that is sold to American corporations. Technologies that reduce dependency on foreign soil natural resources? If we could quantitatively measure usage of technology and matching reduction in dependancy on foreign resources in an objective way, those companies investing in that R&D would benefit. Let’s require they reinvest a percentage of that money back into R&D to continue SUCCESSFUL TRENDS that help the average-Joe’s pocketbook at home!
OK – here’s my first blog. Go to it strategists, engineers, policy-makers. My degrees are in graphic communications and nursing. Please use your influence where you can! I’ll keep up my end of the deal with reuse-reduce-recycle & FREECYCLE!
Gail 🙂
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By: Gail Selleg on August 26, 2009
at 3:12 PM
Raji, I heard the same interview on NPR and it was very telling. Senators (and Congressman, I’m sure) have to spend so much time raising money to get reelected that they don’t spend as much time as they should actually doing their job. The sad part is, it’s not likely to change because who’s going to vote to give money to politicians to be reelected? And those with the ability to raise more money are not going to want to be on equal footing with people running against them.
On another note, can anyone explain to me why Regan is so reveered in the Republican party? I remember, even when I was young, hearing about how Regan’s policies ran up the deficit. Also, we lost all the ground we’d made during the Carter administration towards finding alternative energy sources because Regan said American’s shouldn’t have to sacrifice. Also, Regan was the one who put into our heads the idea of BIG GOVERNMENT, and how the GOVERNMENT is BAD and can’t possibly run anything as complicated as health care (even though they run Medicare and the VA). I’m just wondering. Is it just because of the Soviet Union collapsing? Because the Soviet Union kind of did that to themselves. Oil prices dropped and they kept spending like it hadn’t and the country went bankrupt. Am I missing something? Was it just charisma?
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By: Anne on August 26, 2009
at 3:02 PM
I was searching for a way to honor Kennedy on my Facebook page this morning and found the following quote:
“The More our feelings diverge, the more deeply felt they are, the greater is our obligation to grant the sincerity and essential decency of our fellow citizens on the other side….”
— Edward Kennedy, 1983
Wise words.
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By: ΔTine on August 26, 2009
at 2:58 PM
#$%%^^&*GFTHJjkgyfy6h yti7&*()& %FF J”
gjfuytr^%%$#(jkl……………..what?…….
I’m just exercising my fingers.
(sigh) Twiddling my thumbs while we wait for a post from Helen and Margaret.
and……RIP Senator Kennedy. Your devotion to the citizens of our country was very much appreciated and will be remembered.
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By: vgman on August 26, 2009
at 2:45 PM
frankly, I find the term “Puma” insulting to the great cat. Those creatures have so much more integrity and dignity than the self-styled PUMAs like Kathleen.
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By: Greytdog on August 26, 2009
at 2:38 PM
Kathleen, just a suggestion: but you’d probably enjoy the company over at Palin’s Facebook page. The comments there are more in keeping with your mindset, or lack thereof.
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By: Greytdog on August 26, 2009
at 2:32 PM
Thank you ΔTine. I agree. She has to keep me in line on occassion.
Many of the people who steer our worlds are on this list.
http://www.nndb.com/org/514/000042388/
The front men are just the messengers. It is, afterall, our tradition to shoot the messenger.
Colorful, if you’re out there, pray for these powerful humans.
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By: Poolman on August 26, 2009
at 2:13 PM
I just had to respond to Kathleen’s comment yesterday extolling the virtues of Sarah Palin taking a 10% paycut in her $68,000 salary.
That is $6,800. She then had to hire a $54,000 year City Manager because she couldn’t handle things. Towns that size are not generally requiring of a City Manager. So the net loss was $47,200. Doesn’t seem fiscally responsible to me. Add that to $50 remodel and she cost the small Town of Wasilla almost $100,000 just within her first several months in office.
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By: Alaskan on August 26, 2009
at 2:12 PM
And now that she who must not be named (rhymes with Bathspleen) has been called out for the troll that she is – poof! – gone. Typical but welcome.
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By: ImaginistaΔ on August 26, 2009
at 2:07 PM
Your wife is a very smart lady, Poolman.
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By: ΔTine on August 26, 2009
at 1:58 PM
My wife was reminding me just a little while ago, that as Christians, we are all part of the same body. With Christ as the head. She was saying that we all look different and serve different uses. Some parts are acceptable to display publicly, others are not. Nevertheless, we are all needed and someone has to make up the unpleasant parts. 😀
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By: Poolman on August 26, 2009
at 1:48 PM
@Beatrice 8/25 6:46pm
“I wish all of you would stop attacking James. I quite enjoy the rantings of an intelligent gay man every now and then. Keeps things interesting around here while we wait for another post from Margaret and Helen.
I’ve got your back, James. You go girl!”
Ooooooooh….SNAP!
I’ve always thought of James (and UAW) as a cross between Frank Burns and Archie Bunker…without the wit and charm of course. 😉
By chance I came across some video of UAW’s freakout the other day.
😉 ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 26, 2009
at 1:27 PM
Actually I do think there was some sexism directed at Palin. But that doesn’t change the fact that she is a blithering idiot.
I feel bad that I seem to have brought Kathleen out.
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By: Stacey on August 26, 2009
at 1:18 PM
PUMA wrecked any credibility they had by going McCain and ignoring Hillary’s political loyalties and Palin’s idiocy. They’ll have a hell of a time digging themselves out of the misandry / conservative useful tool holes they’ve put themselves in.
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By: FreΔ on August 26, 2009
at 12:40 PM
PalinShutUp–I stand corrected! You are absolutely right.
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By: Donna on August 26, 2009
at 12:26 PM
Donna, I agree with everything you posted with one exception, people of all parties voted for Obama 🙂
Kathleen is bitter
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By: PalinShutUp on August 26, 2009
at 12:17 PM
Go away Kathleen and take sp with you
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By: PalinShutUp on August 26, 2009
at 12:10 PM
Obama owes it to Ted (and the rest of the American people) to pass that Health Care with Public Option ASAP
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By: PalinShutUp on August 26, 2009
at 12:06 PM
Ted Kennedy on Universal Health Care
Very compelling story.
http://pol.moveon.org/kennedy/?id=17001-5713273-d_Xr1_x&t=1
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 26, 2009
at 12:03 PM
but…but…but…Palin is a woman! And anything said about her MUST be sexist!!!
Obviously, I’m being facetious here, but this has nothing to do with Palin’s policies or competence or anything other than her chromosomal makeup in Kathleen World.
As for passing a health care bill to honor a great man, I couldn’t agree more.
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By: Donna on August 26, 2009
at 12:01 PM
Kathleen,
Check this out: It is about the public option in health care from FOX NEWS of all places.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/cspanjunkie/congressman-weiner-spells-it-out-fox-f
When I think of Palin: I think of made up death squads and real starving villagers. I also think of abstinence and telling kids to do well in school as her own kids drop out and get pregnant under her roof.
Say one thing – do another.
RIP Edward Kennedy. Now, we need to pass a health care bill to honor his memory.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 26, 2009
at 11:58 AM
I’ve always thought the PUMAs were pretty screwy. It’s absolutely fine to support a candidate–that’s what the system is all about. And you can disapprove of what you see as media bias. But to actually go and vote for a candidate who is completely antithetical to what your candidate stood for is not only childish, it shows that your support for your candidate was based on nothing but image and what you projected onto her.
Ms. Clinton herself deeply and publicly disapproved of people like Kathleen. And now, well after the election, Kathleen is still trolling websites and attacking the President and making unhinged accusations such as the one about Mark Sanford. And so, as part of that, she appears at this site, pretending to offer a particular point of view when it’s just a chance to spew her bizarre theories and ventilate her hatred of someone who was preferred as a candidate by the majority of Democratic voters.
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By: Donna on August 26, 2009
at 11:50 AM
Keith–she’s a PUMA. Google her name and Obama and you’ll see her. She voted for McCain out of her angst about the supposed mistreatment of Hillary Clinton and she actually posts that she believes the Obama administration leaked Sanford’s whereabouts in Argentina to retaliate for his opposition to the bailouts. She claims to be “committed to sticking it to the Democratic Party.”
So, she’s not only a plagiarizer, she’s a complete scam…and a conspiracy nut. Tine, my girl, you called this one!
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By: Donna on August 26, 2009
at 11:44 AM
Funny, isn’t it, how Kathleen first edged her way onto the porch by pretending to be so aghast at the way “poor Hillary” had been treated. Once she got people to engage she went full throttle Palin. Time to kick her down the stairs and ignore her yelping and whining to get back up on the porch. She’s a troll and a plagiarizer- treat her as such.
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By: ImaginistaΔ on August 26, 2009
at 11:41 AM
Kathleen: Honey, you must be bored out of your gourd. Otherwise, why the hell are you beating your head against the wall here? We enjoy a vigorous debate of the issues here, and we often disagree on the issues, but we do so respectfully.
Fight the fights that matter. Fight the fights that have the chance of forging a change. Otherwise just shut the hell up and go away if you can’t CONTRIBUTE!
Keith in NM
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By: Keith in NM on August 26, 2009
at 11:23 AM
That disaster, Rush Limbaugh, just spoke of the passing of the “Lion of the Senate” and then said “and we were his prey.” Poolman–you are so right. These people are ghastly.
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By: Donna on August 26, 2009
at 11:18 AM
You can always tell those that have no respect for our president because they never capitalize his name like they do everyone elses. Conscious or not, it is always a tell-tale sign. We used to treat with respect the people that were elected to that office, no matter what our political views were. No longer is that the case. Many have proved themselves not worthy of respect over time, but we used to give them a reasonable chance and benefit of the doubt. Those days are gone in America. Now we debase them in the mainstream media. What was once considered treason is now labeled free speech.
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By: Poolman on August 26, 2009
at 11:12 AM
NPR replayed an interview with Ted Kennedy in 2006 this morning. Several pertinent points that Kennedy made relate to our concerns today.
He compared Congress in the 60’s to Congress today. He said then the job was for 12 months with normal holidays such as the 4th of July, Labor Day and Christmas. Congressmen today leave on Thursday each week in order to seek campaign funds. In essence he said they were failing the American people.
He said the principle reason to be a Senator was “to get things done”. He stated Lobbyists spend about Ten Billion dollars to influence legislators. He particularly spoke about the need for campaign reform in terms of the use of public funds.
A lot of these points we probably all heard him say but didn’t ingest the importance at that time.
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By: Raji on August 26, 2009
at 10:48 AM
I don’t know where Kathleen is coming from. Maybe she’s a PUMA. Who’s knows? But to cite HuffPO and AmericBlog as the end all be all of true journalism is a joke. Soemtimes HuffingtonPsot is informatie, but majority of the time it can be pretty off-key.
I second your comment Donna. I have been reading this thread and Kathleen seems very disingenious with her information. She seems to be excreeting bile. In very large amounts.
I call troll.
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By: DaBomb on August 26, 2009
at 10:47 AM
Kathleen is obviously a Palin worshiper, who occasionally shows up and feigns a veneer of “here’s an opposing point of view from someone who has thought long and hard about the issues, blah blah.” But that veneer is very thin and underneath it is exactly what she accuses others of doing. So Kathleen–why plagiarize Wikipedia? And why leave out all of the information there that’s contrary to your insisted portrayal of the Disasta from Alaska as a competent and ethical public “servant?”
Why not go back to C4P since your claim of being anything remotely approaching independent is an utter farce. And please be clear–I welcome opposing points of view. I just have problems with frauds.
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By: Donna on August 26, 2009
at 10:16 AM
vgman sez “I believe Obama would create a lasting legacy by sweeping the Beltway free of corruption. We are tired of politicians who view their role as “deserved”. ”
Of course part of the problem is the money the elected reps “need” in order to campaign and re-campaign. I’m not sure term-limits are the answer, but campaign reform sure might be. It the field were leveled, if candidates were allowed X-amount of publicly-funded time on TV and in print ads and no more (and not until six months or so ahead of the elections), they wouldn’t need all the money they receive from special interests — whether those are my special interests or yours or hers or his.
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By: Susan in CT on August 26, 2009
at 10:07 AM
Hoping for a post on the health care debate. Would love to read your thoughts about the crazy myths out there…
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By: Jennifer on August 26, 2009
at 10:03 AM
Kathleen: I lived under Queen Crazy Palin’s rule!
I saw first had the do as I say, NOT AS I DO, behavior which was common for Crazy Sarah.
Open decision making for all but her. The natives are starving, let us pray and I will bring some cookies.
Her inrterviews on national tv showed the word salad which is Crazy Sarah.
The koolaid must taste good.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 26, 2009
at 9:54 AM
This explains everything…
.
.
.
ONN: Obama is Bipolar!
😉 ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 26, 2009
at 9:51 AM
Bush was not smart enough to know he was not smart enough to be president. I’m afraid Palin suffers from the same limitation. If only ego were brains.
RIP, Mr. Kennedy. You did good.
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By: margaretandhelenfan on August 26, 2009
at 9:48 AM
What we do know for sure, Kathleen, is that you are the devil.
Have a nice day…now leave the porch, please.
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By: Hattie Mae Simpson on August 26, 2009
at 9:48 AM
Defending Palin against the same kinds of attacks you obama supporters screamed about during the primary, has nothing to do with credibility. It has everything to do with seeking the truth and not becoming that which all democrats protested against, when it was the republicans attacking democrats during the 2000 and 2004 election cycles in much the same way the democrats are now attacking Palin.
In fact, I’m proud not to be part of such behavior!
Maybe if you took your head out of obama’s butt for a moment, you might see what’s really going on around you and stop with the knee jerk responses to anyone who doesn’t agree with you and obama.
If the Black Agenda Report is willing to view the political spectrum with open eyes, instead of rose colored glasses, why can’t you? I would be surprised if any of the staunch obama supporters here read it’s most recent article with an open mind…but miracles do happen:
http://www.blackagendareport.com/
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 26, 2009
at 9:43 AM
Right on! Oh how I wish the rest of the Seniors were that smart. Our education system is failing us and therefore, our democracy. Aided by the News Media, I may add.
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By: gonzalez on August 26, 2009
at 8:36 AM
It is time to pass health care legislation in the memory of Ted Kennedy. (With the public option)
Whirled Peas: You are right on about Howard Dean. He has been out front making the case for the public option. He is showing himself to be a leader for the time.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 26, 2009
at 8:14 AM
Today the Senate lost its heart.
Today Congress lost its center.
Today Massachusetts lost a Senator.
And we Americans lost our champion.
RIP Ted Kennedy. Thou has been a good and faithful servant and the Lord Thy God is well-pleased with Thee. May the Angels sing you home borne on the gratitude of this nation whom you loved.
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By: Greytdog on August 26, 2009
at 8:08 AM
The opportunity to truly lead is here and now.
If we view this health care debate in hindsight, it is paramount for Obama to see that GREAT presidents always stood their ground in the face of adversity.
Do we remember what Millard Fillmore accomplished? Benjamin Harrison? or others?
No. We connect with great movements led by true leaders that accomplished much.
Andrew Jackson spurned the wealthy and corporate interests of the day. I believe Obama would create a lasting legacy by sweeping the Beltway free of corruption. We are tired of politicians who view their role as “deserved”.
Lasso up the lobbyists and tell them they will not be needed.
If four years of leadership are the result of a committed battle to give the country back to the people, so be it. Andrew Jackson knew he had the people on his side. It propelled him to another four years and a place as one of our GREAT presidents.
Much can be learned by studying the early, youthful years of our presidents. Their character and “backbone” formed from life’s experiences.
Andrew Jackson received a slash on his cheek from a British officer’s sword during the Revolutionary War at the age of 14 or so. He had been captured along with his older brother. After being ordered to shine the officer’s boots in front of others, Jackson refused–and then received the mark that would determine his future of fighting the rich and powerful four decades later.
Obama can prove himself as a leader if he puts the interests of millions Americans front and center.
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By: vgman on August 26, 2009
at 7:43 AM
Whirled, excellent comments. I’m not as verbose as many on this site and you expressed my thoughts eloquently.
I have always admired Howard Dean and think he may be in the right place at the right time. I didn’t think he would make a good President but now I wonder if any one can be a good President under the circumstances this country has found itself in as Poolman has stated many times. Reboot is right!
I too am not sure what direction Obama is heading but if his press secretary Robert Gibbs is correct, he is going to put up a good fight.
GIBBS: “I have heard the President say that if making tough decisions in getting important things done that Washington has failed to deal with for decades means that he only lives in this house and makes those decisions for four years, he’s quite comfortable with that.”
However, I think that is what we are all waiting to see..Tough Decisions.
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By: Raji on August 26, 2009
at 7:04 AM
Let me begin by saying you people here make me proud to be a ‘Wedgie’ {Δ}.
I’ve watched the M&H crowd mature over this past year into a first-rate community of intelligent and informed commentors. The stories of your life experiences, backed by the courage of your convictions and mixed with fresh news of the day, makes this one of my favorite stops. Everything anyone could want in a blog; informative, entertaining, enlightening and welcoming.
Thank you all…and M&H.
(and Matt)
~~~
As far as a leader…
We know where W & the Dick led us. We can ‘guess’ where McNasty and Sockeye Sarah would have gone. We can see that ‘The Big O’ needs to be prodded along…
…so that’s why I like Howard Dean.
He’s one of us! ~ Δ ~ PEACE
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 26, 2009
at 5:47 AM
😦
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By: PalinShutUp on August 26, 2009
at 12:43 AM
hahaha!!
‘so McCain’s VP pick was mayor of a laundromat?’
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By: PalinShutUp on August 26, 2009
at 12:42 AM
Ted Kennedy died!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090826/us_nm/us_kennedy
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By: Poolman on August 26, 2009
at 12:41 AM
Politicians and wrestlers…
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By: Poolman on August 25, 2009
at 11:44 PM
Hey, Sarah Palin had a drive thru window installed at the Wasilla town hall:
Now if that isn’t worthy of presidential greatness, I don’t know what is. Plus, she’s hot!
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By: FreΔ on August 25, 2009
at 11:19 PM
Reboot the government
http://www.kickthemallout.com/
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By: Poolman on August 25, 2009
at 11:14 PM
Kathleen, You are a crazy Palinista! My God!
Sarah did file charges against others and picked her way through politics to be Governor. SARAH THEN DID ALL OF THE THINGS SHE ACCUSED OTHERS OF and objected when people called her out on her crappy dealings.
Remember TrooperGate: She and Todd tried to get the Trooper Commish fired because he would not fire her brother in law.
Sarah said she was going to have an open government but ran a very closed government. She would not allow access to emails about government business. (In this day and age emails should be made available.)
Wasilla: Was it 20 million dollars of debt she left for the city?
Palin and Natives: Sarah did nothing (gave out a few cookies) to help the starving Yukon Village peoples who were starving and paying $9.00 a gallon for gas and home heating oil.
Palin was worthless as governor – glad she is gone.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 25, 2009
at 9:53 PM
There goes Kathleen again, spewing the palin propaganda, the only kool aid is the one Kathleen is drinking
Kathleen, dont you have a blog where you can go spew your garbage? Its beginning to smell around here
Kathleen, I can count a whole bunch of issues I disagree with Obama on, the right for gays to marry is only one so Im sorry to disappoint but the only blind follower around here is yourself
Greytdog I agree with you on most of what you wrote about Obama
Im not discouraged completely, I think he has done a hell of a lot more than Bush did in just the beginning of his presidency and I believe something will be done about health care but I am impatient as well and I want it done yesterday, I am beginning to get frustrated, specially when I am seeing so many people in my life suffer without enough coverage or going through the hoops insurance cos make them go through while they are dying and Obama knows what fighting insurance cos was like because his mother died doing just that so Im sure he hasnt forgotten
I think part of the problem with Obama is he is not as liberal as many of us would like him to be and he tries to work it out with the right to a fault
I just heard McCain talking crap about how the American people cant afford health care with the debt, well, they should have thought about that when they started the wars in the Middle East
they didnt care how many billions were wasted there and I dont want to hear how much money health care is going to cost, McCain and the rest of those repubs…can kiss my ass too 🙂
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By: PalinShutUp on August 25, 2009
at 9:19 PM
I loved all the comments responding to Kathleen re: Palin. Really enjoyable read this evening.
I certainly don’t have a blind allegiance to Obama, but why is it bad he has an ivy league education? IMHO, a good education should be a requirement. Even W went to Yale (thanks to Daddy). I definitely do not want a VP who took 5 years to get a bachelors at 3 different schools (was it 3 or 4?).
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By: kitkat on August 25, 2009
at 8:46 PM
OK–this is one of the blessings/curses of having something close to a photographic memory for words (even old as I am). I kept thinking….”why does Kathleen sound so, well, canned?” And the reason, mes amis, is that she PLAGIARIZED Wikipedia on Palin. Verbatim. However, she left out the unfavorable facts from the same piece. And this is the woman who accuses other people of lacking critical thought? Hoo-haw!
Wow, Kathleen–you must be so proud. Ms. “I Don’t Like the Elite Folks” and “I’m all about integrity” is the cheapest sort of plagiarizer.
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By: Donna on August 25, 2009
at 8:22 PM
Kathleen, in case you didn’t notice, Palin QUIT rather than see the job to the end. She QUIT. WALKED OFF THE JOB. And left a mess behind her that required a Special Session of the AK Legislature to clean up. And a QUITTER is not my idea of a person with character.
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By: Greytdog on August 25, 2009
at 7:53 PM
Kathleen Wynne sez “By attacking Palin, you sadly show your crippling, blind allegiance to obama.”
Are you serious? You mean those are the only choices, and one must be blindly allegiant to one OR the other? That makes no sense at all.
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By: Susan in CT on August 25, 2009
at 7:53 PM
Thanks Anne, Donna, thymeCher, Raji, Tine. Good posts. Sarah Palin being sold to the posters on this blog? Yes, I could not help but chuckle also Greytdog. What a hoot!
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By: Easier on August 25, 2009
at 7:24 PM
Hoo-ee, where to start?
Let’s just go with the whole ad hominem attack thing, shall we? That’ll cover everything nicely.
You are apparentl a master of the AHA. You have made many, many assumptions about me, all of which are false.
I do not *ever* read MSNBC. No hyperbole. Never.
I was and am a Hill Gal. I was sorely disappointed when she lost the nomination. But I moved forward, because there wasn’t much point in bitterness, and I found much to admire in Obama as well. He was definitely the best choice on election day, and I remain convinced he’s doing a much better job with the pile of shit Bush created than McCain could possibly have done. I have no “crippling, blind allegiance” to him. He has disappointed me already.
I formulated all the opinions about Palin expressed in my last post, as well as other posts, not from blind allegiance (which I do not possess for *anyone*) but from (a) my own observations of her and (b) people who actually live in Alaska and are in a much better position than I to know what she really has and hasn’t done. Those people are not all anti-Palin. But the overall consensus from the folks I read and discuss Alaska issues with is…how shall I put this….QUITE different from your assessment of Palin’s performance.
Nice try casting aspersions on me, though. Unfortunately, you know nothing about me and have proven it — and displayed your own blind allegiances — in a most unpleasant way.
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By: Δ Tine on August 25, 2009
at 7:24 PM
I wish all of you would stop attacking James. I quite enjoy the rantings of an intelligent gay man every now and then. Keeps things interesting around here while we wait for another post from Margaret and Helen.
I’ve got your back, James. You go girl!
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By: Beatrice on August 25, 2009
at 6:46 PM
New Rule: No Shame in Being the Sorry Party
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/inew-rulei-no-shame-in-be_b_264695.html
New Rule: If Mitt Romney, Karl Rove and Sarah Palin all think America has never done anything wrong, we must be doing something wrong. Look at them: an empty suit, an empty heart and an empty head. It looks like the news team on Good Morning Hell. And what they’ve been competing about lately is who would not apologize the most. America is infallible, and apologies are horrible things that must never, ever be given. Except by me when I make a joke about the Pope. “We’re perfect — deal with it,” is their new handshake. But I say, what’s wrong with America occasionally saying, “I’m sorry”? Because these are the three sorriest white people I’ve ever seen.
If in your eyes America can do no wrong, you should really look into Lasik surgery. There’s the rational, mature assessment of our country: that it’s a great nation — especially if you like fried foods — but it also has its faults. And then there’s the Republican view: that it’s perfect and pure in every way and it’s always right all the time, just like Leviticus and Ronald Reagan.
If the founders were alive today, Republicans would be giving them shit because the Preamble to the Constitution says, “In order to form a more perfect union? Hello, it’s already perfect! Why are you suggesting American apologetics, Ben Franklin?”
One of the things that makes Republicans furious about our current president is their idea that Obama is always apologizing for America’s biggest mistakes. Unlike President Bush. Who was one of America’s biggest mistakes.
In his first week as president, Obama did an interview with Arab TV in which he said, “We sometimes make mistakes. We have not been perfect.” Thought crime! And then he went to Cairo and violated one of those absolute eternal rules the Right Wing is always making up out of thin air: “The president must never apologize on foreign soil. Lest our allies begin to doubt that we’re assholes. ”
But what did Obama actually say to make Karl Rove’s head explode and the popcorn fly out? Cover your children’s ears: When he was asked if he believed in American exceptionalism, he said he did, the same way “the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks in Greek exceptionalism.” Yes, our so-called president actually said people in other countries might like their countries better. I was so shocked I nearly dropped the Bible I was using to help me masturbate into my gun.
In her farewell speech — if only — Sarah Palin kept telling us “how she’s wired.” Now I’m not a doctor, or an electrician — but this is faulty wiring, this worldview that, in her words, “we should never apologize for our country.” Really? Never? Not for slavery? Or Japanese internment camps, or if we tortured the wrong guy at Guantanamo? The Indians? Nothing, Sarah? “The Real Housewives of Atlanta”? Shouldn’t John McCain apologize for… you?
When did intractability become a virtue? Mitt Romney’s new book is called No Apology: The Case For American Greatness. You can find it at Borders, in the “Suck-Up” section. It’s such a perfect title, combining paranoia with arrogance: “No one has yet asked me to apologize but, if someone ever does, fuck them.”
Conservatives think apologizing is a sign of weakness. It’s what liberal pussies do, when they’re not busy driving electric cars and feeling empathy. When in fact it’s the weak and the scared who are too insecure to apologize. Apologies are actually a sign of strength. That’s why six-year-olds hate them.
In Rwanda, after a genocide that killed a million people, they set up special courts where people stood up and said, “Hey, sorry I macheted your entire family. My bad.” And believe it or not, in most cases, that was enough. That’s the power of an apology. A recent study reveals that doctors who are willing to apologize to patients for their mistakes are sued for malpractice about half as much as doctors who aren’t willing to apologize.
Apologies can do great things, and they can enable great things. And if you still don’t believe me, I have three words for you: make-up sex.
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By: magginkat on August 25, 2009
at 6:31 PM
There are those that just see Sarah as a victim and unfairly treated by the mainstream media. Was she abused by the media? Yes – just like all public figures are. That is what we do. We attack the character of those seeking to represent us. It is part of the job description. It is in the rule book on both sides. It isn’t pretty. Some can handle it and shrug it off. Though Palin said she could, in truth, she could not.
Don’t become a boxer if you can’t stand to be punched. Don’t go to a bullfight if you can’t stand blood or gore. I can make a case for unfair treatment of all our elected leaders by those that oppose them. All we end up debating is the degree of slime that is slung. It says more about us as a society than the people we elect to represent us.
Is it fair? What is fair? Tit for tat. An eye for an eye. We learn this with our siblings and peers in grade school. Life isn’t fair, we’ve been told. We can all recall times when we have been treated unfairly. The best of us don’t blame others. We become stronger through the storm. We know in our heart the truth and continue to stand for what we believe. “Sticks and stones…”
I recall a time in our history when it appeared that we had matured and were above that. I am not sure when we peaked, but I know we are no longer on that summit. And we surely are not on the upside anymore. Like our education system, we have dumbed down.
Public figures should be judged by their fruit – their accomplishments. What do we find in their wake? It is said “talk is cheap”. It sure gets us riled and emotionally involved. When it leads us to action and positive influence for our society, then we can measure results. Then we can assess character. Then we be critical.
Right now we need to capture our government back from corporate interests. That is the greater threat. Politicians are merely the actors on this stage. We need to get back to the original script, IMO.
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By: Poolman on August 25, 2009
at 6:31 PM
thymeCher, you’re quite the poet.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 25, 2009
at 6:26 PM
On the naked dancers…….
“Gosh darn, that was fantastic! You betcha that was pure talent. (Wink!)”
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By: vgman on August 25, 2009
at 6:15 PM
thymeCher wins with best summation:
“Palin is a political version of fast food. Cheap, messy and truly empty calories. All we are left with are paper wrappers and toxic waste.”
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By: Greytdog on August 25, 2009
at 6:14 PM
Time out for a chuckle, just the mention of SP’s got my blood pressure up again.
Move over Susan Boyle 🙂
http://vodpod.com/watch/1548742-sweden-got-talent-naked-guys-dancing
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By: thymeCher on August 25, 2009
at 6:03 PM
Palin is a political version of fast food. Cheap, messy and truly empty calories. All we are left with are paper wrappers and toxic waste.
As much as I loathe giving credit to republicant’s, they have elevated insanity to an art form and the bitter twitter quitter is their Picasso.
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By: thymeCher on August 25, 2009
at 5:57 PM
“By attacking Palin, you sadly show your crippling, blind allegiance to obama..”
or by pointing out Palin’s painfully obvious inadequacies you show you are not drinking the kool aid. People who complain about attacks against Palin are the same people who said we should blindly and unquestioningly support Bush while he was ginning up a fake war against Iraq and called anyone who did so unpatriotic. Look how well THAT turned out.
For God’s sake, girl, Palin is a fool. She proves this over and over. She is the example that proves the Peter Principle. Why on earth would the republican party want this woman-in-search-of-a-predicate to represent their party?
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By: margaretandhelenfan on August 25, 2009
at 5:11 PM
“Disliking Palin does not mean I have blind crippling alleigance to Obama.”
Right on, Anne!
I can’t agree that she’s an idiot, though. I think she knows just enough to be classified as a hazard, and the destruction she’s wrought in Alaska is my proof.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 25, 2009
at 5:07 PM
I agree. Tine wins. Between the ethics probes and the sudden stepping down from her office, I daresay we don’t need any more politicians like Palin. Why is this even in question? Ask most registered GOP why the McCain campaign failed. They’ll undoubtedly say that she detracted more than she ever helped. Why is this even in question? She shoots freakin’ wolves from freakin’ helicopters!
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By: Raezin on August 25, 2009
at 4:06 PM
Kathleen, you have lost your credibility with your defense of Sarah Palin. Have you not read any of the Alaskan blogs or newspapers? Can a whole state be wrong and you right?
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By: Raji on August 25, 2009
at 4:02 PM
HELEN! HELEN! HELEN! HELEN! HELEN! HELEN!
HELEN! HELEN! HELEN! HELEN! HELEN! HELEN!
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
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By: Candace R. on August 25, 2009
at 3:55 PM
I greatly admire a number of women in government–both Republican and Democrat. Regardless of whether I agree with them on a particular issue (or any issues), I often deeply respect and appreciate them for their accomplishments and public service. However, it is because I so admire intelligent and accomplished women that I have little use for frauds like Sarah Palin who have neither intellect nor character but who rely on their appearance and manipulative tricks in lieu or either.
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By: Donna on August 25, 2009
at 3:52 PM
Donna, do you hate all women or just women in government?
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By: Anonymous on August 25, 2009
at 3:47 PM
Kathleen, do you hate all men or just black men?
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By: Anonymous on August 25, 2009
at 3:38 PM
Anne–like Tine, you rock.
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By: Donna on August 25, 2009
at 3:32 PM
“By attacking Palin, you sadly show your crippling, blind allegiance to obama. No politician should be above reproach and all politicians with different party affiliations are deserving of your ad hominem attacks.”
Disliking Palin does not mean I have blind crippling alleigance to Obama. It means I think she’s an idot.
“It is as throughout all Alaska that big wild good life teeming along the road that is north to the future.” Sarah Palin, extolling the virtues of the Alaskan wilderness during her last speech as governor.
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By: Anne on August 25, 2009
at 3:26 PM
I am falling over laughing. Let’s see…while mayor she spent $50k redecorating her office without approval and left the city in huge debt and with significant legal problems as a result of the incompetent handling of the sports complex. The fabled “conflict of interest” reporting concerned, in part, actions that Palin herself took while governor. Yes, she sold the jet. She also took per diems for staying in her own home and bilked the taxpayers of thousands of dollars to truck her children to events. And it appears she used her position to advance her husband’s financial interests (and, therefore, her own), although she has played games with releasing the details of the Arctic Cat sponsorship.
The fact is that she was a disaster as mayor and didn’t even serve out her term as governor. She used both positions for personal advantage and, to the extent she had any talent, it was for cheap political stunts of the sort you cite.
Actually, the psychological phenomenom of projection is an interesting thing. You accuse people of “crippling, blind allegiance to Obama.” There are many people on here who have issues with Palin but are equally clear on the pros and cons of the current president. I would suggest that your statements about Palin’s “accomplishments”–which are refuted by the most basic research–reflect far more on your own lack of critical thinking than anything else.
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By: Donna on August 25, 2009
at 3:26 PM
There was an excellent interview with T.R. Reid on NPR yesterday. He’s the gentleman who wrote a book about traveling to different countries with his bum shoulder to see what they would each suggest. Anyway, the Brits LOVE their universal coverage. They take pride in the system and even though they can have private if they want it, any important medical issues, like having a baby, they trust to the national plan. Canada has a similar plan, and even though it has its own problems, like long wait times to see a specialist (which they’re working to reduce) whenever anyone complains they say “At least we’re not the US!” As much as some politicans use the Canadian system as a fear tactic, they use are systems as a fear tactic whenever anyone complains about Canada’s system. Germany has a system that I think we could emmulate. They have several different private insurance companies, but they’re non-profit and you can choose whichever one you want and switch at any time and they have to take you. The hospitals are private too. Basically they’re heavily regulated. We need a system where every fee costs the same amount so we don’t need such a complex structure. That accounts for 17% of our health care costs, where in Germany and France it’s only 5%. Great interview. I’m thinking about buying his book.
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By: Anne on August 25, 2009
at 3:22 PM
Correction: “all politicians of different party affiliations are NOT deserving of your ad hominem attacks.”
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 25, 2009
at 3:09 PM
Tine,
And I can’t let what you said lie.
You state that all politicians are alike and are elitists. I say, not all of them. I also notice some of you use any excuse to bash Palin on a personal level and I bet you’ve never researched her background and work, but totally depended on getting your information about her from MSNBC, which, ironically, is exactly what the obama supporters and the MSM did to Hillary during the primary.
Here’s the difference between Palin and “all politicians”:
In her first term as Mayor of Wasilla, she reduced her salary of $68,000 by 10%.
She also kept a jar with the names of Wasilla residents on her desk. Once a week, she pulled a name from it and picked up the phone; she would ask: “How’s the city doing?”
Using income generated by a 2% sales tax that was enacted before she was elected to the city council, Palin cut property taxes by 75% and eliminated personal property and business inventory taxes. Using municipal bonds, she made improvements to the roads and sewers, and increased funding to the Police Department. She was reelected with 74% of the vote.
Palin was appointed to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. She chaired the Commission beginning in 2003, serving as Ethics Supervisor. Palin resigned in January 2004, protesting what she called the “lack of ethics” of fellow Republican members.
After resigning, Palin filed a formal complaint against Oil and Gas Conservation Commissioner Randy Ruedrich, also the chair of the state Republican Party, accusing him of doing work for the party on public time and of working closely with a company he was supposed to be regulating. She also joined with Democratic legislator Eric Croft to file a complaint against Gregg Renkes, a former Alaskan Attorney General, accusing him of having a financial conflict of interest in negotiating a coal exporting trade agreement,while Renkes was the subject of investigation and after records suggesting a possible conflict of interest had been released to the public. Ruedrich and Renkes both resigned and Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine.
Following through on a campaign promise, she sold the jet purchased by the previous governor to save the taxpayers money.
These actions are what defines a “public servant” working in the best interest of her constituents. When was the last time you heard about a democrat calling out party leaders on ethics violations and at their own political risk?
If you consider Palin just like any other politician, then I say, based on what she did while in office, we need a hell of a lot more just like her because the majority of politicians are elitists and think the government is their very own fraternity house to be used to advance their own interests and the people be damned.
By attacking Palin, you sadly show your crippling, blind allegiance to obama. No politician should be above reproach and all politicians with different party affiliations are deserving of your ad hominem attacks.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 25, 2009
at 3:06 PM
Tine–well put! It’s utter nonsense. You have our last President, who came from great wealth and went to an Ivy League school. You had Ronald Reagan–a wealthy actor before going into politics. Good Lord–John McCain came from a privileged background, went to one of the premier military schools, and married a multi-millionaress.
And yet, the term “elite” is being now used as a slur. As for Palin, you are correct that she and her family have a lot of money. To the extent she is uneducated and uninformed, I’d hardly look at that as a positive.
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By: Donna on August 25, 2009
at 3:02 PM
poolman sez “The balance of power was correctly placed in all 3 branches of our government. ”
Interesting that Cheney was and is so interested in a more powerful presidency……. Doesn’t mean that such a president would be independent, and in fact would probably be more subject to the kinds of influences that seem to be so rampant.
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By: Susan in CT on August 25, 2009
at 1:36 PM
well, vgman, i’m glad you feel we are in agreement especially since you initially accused me of stating something i didn’t state. As for the “those days are gone” comment, I’m largely going by the ‘kids’ (okay, i’m old. everyone is a kid to me) I encounter in my daily life and the rampant bad grammer I hear. Please, also, don’t ask them to write a complete sentence. This is stuff that should have been squared away by the third grade but for some reason fundamentals seem to have fallen by the wayside. What else has a fallen away? I do NOT blame teachers for lack of dedication and effort.
RE: the reference to the new Japanese residents in my home town starting a new school for their children, they did so because they felt the public schools were too lax and did not push the children enough. In fact, their school was in session monday through Saturday. these are the people our children are going to be competing against in the global market one day. Meanwhile, our kids get trophies for just showing up.
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By: helenandmargaretFan on August 25, 2009
at 1:10 PM
Kathleen, you said: “Yes, indeed, I like and respect Sarah Palin because she’s genuine and she’s NOT ivy league and comes across as an elitist.”
OK, I can’t just let this lie….
First of all, what the hell is an elitist, anyway? It’s the latest trendy, meaningless insult. Everyone uses it for his/her own purposes, just like “Nazi,” “fascist,” etc. I was calling Bush both of those names way back in his first term, because his jingoistic militarism and stripping of civil rights seemed creepily fascist to me. I was floored when I started hearing people call Obama a fascist. I cannot for the life of me figure out what people think is fascist about him. Do they even know what “fascist” means? Sigh… But that all just goes to show that a word can mean different things to different people. Elitist, schmelitist.
As far as I’m concerned, ALL who run for major government offices — and especially those who win — are elites. It’s unavoidable the way our system is set up. You have to be rich and privileged to have a fighting chance.
Sarah Palin is as much an elite as anyone. She is rich and privileged, not working-class. All the evidence I’ve seen shows she is a winky-winking, you-betcha-ing, smarmy spotlight-chaser, not a “genuine,” ordinary American.
As an ordinary American, I resent the comparison.
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By: ΔTine on August 25, 2009
at 12:40 PM
First to James – I apologize for including you in my “blanket” snark at the current townhall “rage” & groupthink concerning healthcare reform. Just like you (&others) I get sooooo frustrated, especially by the folks who have a NIMBY attitude while proclaiming themselves Christians. Some days, I just snap & snarl. I apologize.
jsri – your wife’s experiences in teaching remind me of my grandmother – who retired three times – but when asked, always returned to the classroom. When asked why, her response was always “the students need me”. And when she died, her students came from far and wide to pay respects to the teacher who changed their lives in small and big ways. It was amazing. I’ve taught elderhostel classes, and adult education. I simply don’t have the patience for high schoolers, and tend to revert to the same age as elementary kids whenever I’m around them (in other words, we meltdown together). I’ve had several teachers who have mentored me along the way and will be forever grateful for their faith in me.
I haven’t been following the debate with Kathleen. But let me just throw this into the ring: When I voted for Barack Obama it was because he made me believe again that one small voice such as mine, when combined with other voices, can indeed create change. Since his election, yes I’ve been discouraged – I’m a kind of let’s get going, do it do it do it now person – but I’ve always remember that Obama’s slogan was not Yes I can nor was it Yes He Can, but Yes WE Can. So if we want change, if we want accountability, health care reform, transparency, etc. then WE must speak up – and speak loudly, and speak with conviction. Yes WE the people can.
And my surgery is scheduled for Thursday AM. I had hoped to have it as outpatient but due to my heart condition, the ortho wants me overnight. Sigh. I hate that. No sleep. So I’ll be taking my laptop with me :::::hehehe:::::so I can blog, tweet, & write. AND my new book. The surgeon thinks that all will go well and I should be able to return to full time swimming with the dogs within 3 weeks.
PS Donna – Kathleen is quite correct – Sarah Palin is genuine – a genuine idiot. 🙂
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By: Greytdog on August 25, 2009
at 12:11 PM
ah, yes–Kathleen’s at it again. If you don’t share her disapproval of the President, you are a “kool-aid drinker.” On the other hand, she can form a judgment about Sarah Palin that she is “genuine.” How do you know? What on earth qualifies you to make such a judgment? Unless you have personally known the woman in any meaningful way, you are simply projecting your views on to her.
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By: Donna on August 25, 2009
at 11:42 AM
Here are some links for “who is in control of our government”.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0316-05.htm
http://www.thepoliticsofcommonsense.org/content/view/41/46/
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By: Poolman on August 25, 2009
at 11:23 AM
jsri – I too get rather miffed at all the anti-teacher comments. Are there bad ones – sure. I’ve run into a couple, but its not that rule. What is wrong with our schools is actually quite simple – lack of money. If you’ve worked in the private sector you know that the easiest way to kill something that you don’t have the cohanes to kill outright is to underfund it. And that’s what the “anti-tax” activists out here are doing to our schools. It gets me very angry.
I don’t teacher, just volunteer, and I continue to hand out hugs (but I ask first) I sure hope they don’t tell me I can’t. 5 and 6 year olds need hugs.
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By: Stacey on August 25, 2009
at 11:15 AM
Kathleen, Our presidents did have power originally. We all want to have a leader. It is our “give us a king” mentality. The balance of power was correctly placed in all 3 branches of our government. The founding fathers were careful to put in many safeguards. Lawyers and special interests have been over-riding those over time. We lose more every wartime in the name of security. Money and greed have been eroding our freedoms. That has escalated in the last century. We’ve been played like a giant chess game. Unless we take it back, we are at the mercy of industry and will be enslaved by the very government we set up to protect us.
Instead we bicker among ourselves and are oblivious to the fact that the emperor has no clothes.
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By: Poolman on August 25, 2009
at 11:09 AM
To all you teachers and ex-teachers out there:
I don’t understand how teachers collectively get such a bad rap. As in any occupation, there are the good, the bad, and the ugly. But public school teachers seem to get the most heat when one is not up to par. And often the subversion of their best efforts comes from within the system.
My wife Em taught elementary school for almost 35 years. An English Lit major in college, started in 1955 with an emergency teaching certificate and zero experience, in a 2-room schoolhouse, with three grades and 22 pupils. It was a loosie-goosie operation, with little supervision, where she was allowed to determine her own curriculum. Parents appeared periodically bearing cookies or birthday cakes and were invited in where she would put them to work. She could hardly wait to get home to regale me with tales of the ebb and flow of her days.
Six years later, when the town closed the school, she found herself unwittingly in the middle of a three-way battle for her services by the three elementary school principals in town. She chose one who had a large family of his own, a wise decision because his experiences were invaluable in dealing with doting but blindered parents. It was at this point that she began teaching grade one, the grade she taught until retiring. Along the way she gathered up all the necessary certifications plus an MEd and a PhD in Elementary Ed. She is still the only teacher I know of who had a PhD but insisted on teaching grade one. When questioned about why she did not want to go into administration, she always replied that grade one was the bedrock of education and that she was exactly where she wanted to be. She became a cooperating teacher for a nearby teacher’s college where she eventually became a member of the faculty but continued teaching grade one in the laboratory school there. This is also where things began to unravel.
She spent a lot of money for supplies and display materials and she was never far away from thinking about her classes. Her classroom was funky and gaudy, guaranteed to capture the attention of her little charges. Some of her decorations were collected painstakingly for their worth as well as their educational value and many were recycled year after year. But one time toward the end of her career, she returned in the Fall to prepare her room for opening day and found it had been stripped clean. All her decorations were gone and she was faced with five rows of desks and blank walls. During the summer recess, the head of school decided that the room was a fire hazard and dumped everything he thought was unnecessary. All her time effort and energy went into the dumpster.
Later that same year she ran into another snag. When her pupils lined up in the corridor in the morning, she always stood inside the door and greeted each one by name as he or she entered the room. She also took each one by the hand, or touched them on the arm or shoulder while welcoming them into the room. The connection by touch was very important in making them feel welcome. However, another teacher in one of the upper grades had a run in with the parent of a bully in her classroom. That teacher had to pull him away from beating up a smaller child. Later that day, the mouthy mother of the bully was heard in the halls berating the teacher and threatening the school and the teacher with a lawsuit. A new rule was promulgated on the spot and all teachers henceforth were forbidden to touch a pupil except in an emergency. When the principal saw Em still greeting the students in her usual way he announced that she could be put on administrative leave if she continued.
She retired at the end of the year.
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By: jsri on August 25, 2009
at 10:52 AM
and Kathleen, you may have missed it before because you were probably too involved in your whining but I said it before, SP can believe whatever the hell she wants to but I’ll be damned if I let her dictate what I should believe in
take your BS propaganda to those who will appreciate it, I dont and will continue telling you so
Thank you alivenkickn
That is what is really important
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By: PalinShutUp on August 25, 2009
at 10:48 AM
we all have our priorities
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By: PalinShutUp on August 25, 2009
at 10:27 AM
Please….I’d take whining over blithering.
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By: Amy Tan on August 25, 2009
at 10:24 AM
I would rather read James’s stories than Kathleen’s whinings, its making my eyes bleed
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By: PalinShutUp on August 25, 2009
at 10:21 AM
‘PalinShutUp,
Wow! You don’t consider what happened to Hillary worth acknowledging?’
Didnt say it wasnt worth aknowledging what I am saying is that enough with the beating of the horse every single blog M&H post, that’s what Im saying.
Its a new day and the thing we should be fighting for today and making LOTS OF NOISE ABOUT is HEALTHCARE for EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY
pardon me if Im a bit touchy about it, I recently lost a friend to breast cancer who was practically reduced to BEGGING people for money in order to CONTINUE LIVING!!!!
So yea, I am a bit TOUCHY these days
and Sarah Palin can KISS MY ASS
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By: PalinShutUp on August 25, 2009
at 10:19 AM
Poolman,
Then why do we have presidents, if they are only telling us what we want to hear to get elected and then we make excuses for them after they are in office, that they are powerless?
I agree that there are powerful forces behind the scenes pulling the strings, but, I also believe many who are running for office are more willing puppets than others and will say and do anything to obtain power.
I think it’s time for a revolution of citizen outrage that our government is no longer one “of, for and by the people”, but a government for the power elite and an agenda which has nothing to do with a democratic republic, as we know it.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 25, 2009
at 9:56 AM
Judith, did anyone answer your avatar question? I’ve been out of the loop the past few days…but a quick scan suggests no. Go here: http://en.gravatar.com. In the upper left corner you’ll see where you can click to sign up for a gravatar (globally recognized avatar). All ya need is an e-mail address and a photo.
To all who have expressed appreciation for teachers: On my husband’s and sister’s behalf, thank you.
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By: Δ Tine on August 25, 2009
at 9:55 AM
We expect that our presidents can get in there and keep their campaign promises. We think they have that power. To me it seems though many are sincere, they really have little power to do much once elected. Our government is run by corporations and men of wealth that have, over time, taken over the helm. We spend our time blaming the front men and dividing them into us vs. them. We fight amongst ourselves and argue semantics. Meanwhile, behind the scenes we are losing, or have already lost our nation. Time for a reboot.
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By: Poolman on August 25, 2009
at 9:52 AM
Susan,
IMO, his books are not where I would look to find an “objective” picture of who obama is. I think you find out who obama is through the documentation of his past such as his records while a child, records from the colleges he attended and his state senate records. What concerns me is that obama has lived for 48 years without leaving any footprints. There is no obama documentation — no records — no paper trail. I find that highly suspect, particularly for a man who has lived almost his entire life in public office.
In fact, Judicial Watch is having a problem in locating any of obama’s records. Here’s a report from them regarding this curious lack of a paper trail:
“The president of a prominent watchdog group said Wednesday that he believes Democratic presidential frontrunner Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) “intended to leave no paper trail” during his time in the Illinois Senate.
Judicial Watch, which has been seeking access to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-N.Y.) records from her time in the White House, argued Wednesday that the Illinois senator, who has criticized the former first lady for a lack of openness, has his own “records problem.”
“The more we learn about the Illinois Senator, the more obvious it becomes that he is anything but the ethically upright outsider he purports to be,” said Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch.
The group rose to prominence when it repeatedly took on former President Bill Clinton during his time in office. It also sought records from the Bush administration regarding Vice President Dick Cheney’s energy task force.
In a statement, Fitton noted that his group has sought access to Obama’s records as a state senator and questioned whether the presidential candidate has been forthcoming with regard to what happened to those documents.
He said that “nobody knows where they are, if they exist at all” and claimed that “Obama’s story keeps changing.”
IMO, any politician who has no records of his past or his work while a public servant, is certainly open to question and concern. If this were any other politician other than obama, I would bet the farm that the media would be all over it.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 25, 2009
at 9:40 AM
Kathleen, read his books, then you will know who Obama is.
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By: Susan on August 25, 2009
at 9:20 AM
PalinShutUp,
Wow! You don’t consider what happened to Hillary worth acknowledging? I bet if the shoe were on the other foot and it was obama who was treated the same way Hillary was treated, with the media protecting and defending Hillary, while spewing racist epithats at obama every dim, damn day, you would be screaming to the rooftops. I’d advise you pull back your arrogance about those of us who will not let you forget what happened during that primary which literally split the democratic party apart.
Oh, your name shows the calibre of people who support obama because you believe being antagonistic for its own sake is somehow cool.
Yes, indeed, I like and respect Sarah Palin because she’s genuine and she’s NOT ivy league and comes across as an elitist. I don’t agree with her politics but I since we still live in America, I respect her right to her beliefs. On the other hand, I still don’t know who obama is and I’m not willing to drink the kool-aid so that I can make him into whomever “I” want him to be, regardless if the evidence of who he truly is has begun to surface with his flip-flops on major campaign promises.
So much for that “superior judgment” you all were crowing about during the primary, which was all but enough to make up for his lack of experience.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 25, 2009
at 9:00 AM
Susan,
I agree. I have learned a lot from James’ posts about his military experience. Farming never interested me and I usually did my best to avoid getting a part time job on a local farm even though my father expected me to.
Thanks for your perspective on teaching. I knew I wanted to be a teacher since I was a small child.
James,
You probably have heard it many times before, but thank you for your service to the country.
I have never heard of Brule, but after looking it up I noticed they were named by the French.
We very well could have bumped into eachother since Hull is only about 100 blocks square with a population no bigger than most large high schools.
I lived in Hull from age 2–22. Moved away after graduating from Dordt.
Honolulu Sally,
Respect between the sexes is a good thing. To much degrading in the media IMO. I always teach my male students that they wouldn’t be here without the females and to always open the door for them.
Kathleen,
I respect Hillary for her smartness and determination. She has shone a spotlight on the glass ceiling like no other female in our country and set a good example for all girls. I just thought Obama had a stronger message last fall.
Well, it’s Tuesday morning, the porch is swept, the coffee and tea are brewing, maybe Helen and Margaret will come out and join us today. Let’s all hope!
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By: vgman on August 25, 2009
at 8:13 AM
I have no doubt you can, James.
You amaze me.
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By: Amy Tan on August 25, 2009
at 6:34 AM
Raji, thanks for the info. The 80yr old mother of the 60yr old woman I landscape with swears by Absorbine (spelling?, and not Junior) horse linament. They always had horses when living near Chicago. She still gardens and uses the Absorbine now in Florida.
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 25, 2009
at 6:29 AM
vgman,
Wow! We might have bumped into each other. Our relatives are mostly from Hull.
Have you heard of the Native American group Brule? They also have southwest Minnesota/northwest Iowa connections.
I usually vote for half Republicans and half Democrats. I nearly wrote in Daffy Duck because I didn’t like any of the presidential candidates.
PalinShutup.
I am not whining. I am agreeing with Kathleen that sexism still exists. The press’s job is to report the news, not fawn over a candidate regardless of his/her good qualities. I think the right woman as president would be a good thing.
Honolulu Sally,
I think it is a wash. Men and women are just different. One isn’t superior to the other. Your joke was amusing, though.
Amy Tan,
You really want to be waterboarded? I can show you how its done.
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By: James on August 25, 2009
at 6:12 AM
In case you don´t know what s happening in your Country, here s a little help from abroad about what s happening in “Gods own Countryl”.
The stupidity of some Americans is beyond all bearing.
I´m outraged
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By: alivenkickn on August 25, 2009
at 5:52 AM
Well………. some of James’s “thoughts” are very good descriptions of farming life, a life that is further and further away from the experience of the average American; some of the thoughts are about his military experience, experience that many of us haven’t been through — so let’s not dismiss him quite so out-of-hand, eh?
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By: Susan in CT on August 25, 2009
at 5:46 AM
Please Helen,
We ask that you post another one soon or we will have to spend our days reading the “thoughts” of James…
I’d rather be waterboarded…
Really. I mean it.
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By: Amy Tan on August 25, 2009
at 5:17 AM
Kathleen,
I’m not sure if Obama had a harder time than Hillary during the election because of race. I just meant that I feel it is much harder to be black than to be a woman – in general. Everyone has a woman they love (mother, wife, daughter, aunt, etc.). Not everyone can say they have a black person they even like and/or respect.
I also believe that woman are the superior sex in many ways, and we sure have more fun getting together and talking about the men without our gonads getting in the way.
Men tend to have louder belches, speedier spitballs, and larger arseholes (bigger farts). They also have more perverts and asshats as evidenced by Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Company.
Heard on the financial news today that Rupert Murdoch (owner of Fox News and a media conglomerate) is trying to sell his Dow Jones Industrial company – perhaps because he is facing economic woes – perhaps because many sponsors such as Lowes are pulling their ads from Glenn Beck.
I think I’ll go give Lowes some business.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 24, 2009
at 10:30 PM
Tell me about it. I just spent $75 on graph paper notebooks and a desk calendar.
Over the years I’ve affected the lives of 925 students and I’m still going strong.
Wall Street has affected many lives as well–as in millions of US citizens now losing homes, health care…….
But in the end, I just need to be able to sleep at night.
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By: vgman on August 24, 2009
at 10:24 PM
Well THAT response was a whole mess! Durn hair-trigger pad on this laptop!
I retired early in the decade, but on these hot August days I can remember being in that unshaded un-air-conditioned west-facing classroom with its 50′ of windows, preparing packets for all of my students (including an initial out-of-my-own-pocket bunch of supplies), getting the syllabus just right, trying to think of every last thing possible for when the kids came back.
And being in that room sometimes from 7:15AM to 10PM when the custodians finally kicked me out because they were locking the building up. And going in when I felt horrible (but hopefully not contagious) because I knew what would happen in that room with that in-school sub who was a friend of the principal’s.
These aren’t complaints, just descriptions, but the people who are moaning about 9-month years are probably getting consistent raises and bonuses and Christmas presents from their bosses. And not involving themselves a whole lot in their kids’ educations.
But I’m not bitter…..
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By: Susan in CT on August 24, 2009
at 9:37 PM
vgman sez “As for the 9 months of work for an annual salary?
“They’re not reporting the often 12 hour days during those 9 months.
“My school calendar goes from Sept. through the third week of June. Add on the prep weeks of mid-August and you soon have 11 months. I laugh whenever I hear the “9 months” comment.””
So so true.
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By: =\Cynical Susan in CT on August 24, 2009
at 9:27 PM
Helen,
My mother thinks she went to school with you in Texas. She says you were a hoot then and you are still a hoot!
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By: Shelby Finger on August 24, 2009
at 9:02 PM
HRH Sofia EQ, if you are looking for a good arnica gel check out Equilite Sore No More gel. Yes, it is a horse product but I use it. Arnica is very good but usually only for a short period of time. I have had more success with Capsaicin which I purchase in the form of a product called Equiblock. Both of these products are more cost efficient in the horse products than human. I am basically an arthritic cripple who should have hip, knee and back surgery but am surviving on homeopathic treatment as I am sensitive to chemical drugs and cannot tolerate the normal treatments.
One warning to landscapers if you use a capsaicin product , when you sweat, you heat up with this product.
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By: Raji on August 24, 2009
at 7:27 PM
M&H fan,
I think you and I both agree. Many of your comments sound like I could say them. It just seemed like your statement ‘those days are gone’ negated the successes that do happen in our nation’s public schools every year.
‘A mighty fine education’ can be had by any student when the teacher is willing to put in the time and effort to reach each individual.
For all those who are not teachers, can you imagine having 25 different personalities always at your elbows for 8 hours a day? I personally love it and always say….there’s no better way to spend a day than with children who make you smile.
As for the 9 months of work for an annual salary?
They’re not reporting the often 12 hour days during those 9 months.
My school calendar goes from Sept. through the third week of June. Add on the prep weeks of mid-August and you soon have 11 months. I laugh whenever I hear the “9 months” comment.
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By: vgman on August 24, 2009
at 7:08 PM
vgman – when did I put down the hard work of teachers? I worked in the education industry (not school system, however) for many years and saw first hand how hard teachers worked, how little they were paid, how often times they put their hands in their own pockets to pay for a little something extra in the classroom. My comment is addressing the government cut backs that cause public schools to many eliminate valuable programs (starting with art, music, physical education, all of which have been proven to contribute greatly to the development of students’ minds for other subjects).
Also, I’m not saying this is happening in every school, but I live in NYC and many public schools in this area are in appalling condition – and then people are shocked, shocked at the high drop-out rate. Of course, most – but not all — are those schools in the poorer neighborhoods so needless to say, they fall off the radar. What these fat cats cutting budgets (while sending their children to private schools) don’t seem to realize is this is the future of our nation we are educating and if fewer and fewer are getting an education that will prepare them for the world, the country as a whole is going to suffer.
I remember a conversation with a Republican who was whining about how we are paying teachers an annual salary when they only work nine months out of the year. In his limited, twisted little mind, we should be paying teachers LESS! This stupidity of this comment was stunning.
I also know that in my home town, which is actually known to have a supurb public education system, there was a period of time when many Japanese companies moved into the area and they brought their employees with them. They took one look at the local education system and decided the best course of action was to start their own school just for their children. That was a real smack upside the head.
Imagine a country where we make it the utmost priority to nurture our students to the nth degree and churn out, year after year, well educated, accomplished, proud students… and then send them out into the world. we would kick ass.
And James, a little brevity wouldn’t kill you.
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By: margaretandhelenfan on August 24, 2009
at 6:43 PM
James,
you might very well be able to guess what the “v” in vgman stands for if you are Dutch or have Dutch relatives. I was born in Orange City. The Tulip Festival was a yearly tradition for my family.
I always tell people that Sioux County has the highest concentration of Republicans per population anywhere in the 50 states.
The Spencer Fair was also a sometimes event for our family.
Last fall, I had a good time discussing politics with my father. He was interested in Obama and I closely watched how many votes Obama received in Sioux County.
Anyways………………
I voted for Bush in “88 (my first election) and then Clinton in ’92. Over the years, I’ve turned more independent. Someone posted earlier that the party isn’t as important as the individual anymore when it comes to choosing a candidate.
For me, it comes down to character. I watch closely their speeches, mannerisms, interactions, and especially how they treat the down-trodden in society. For me, Bush II paid lip-service to this group. Obama has a proven record of working for the average American.
I have a quote in my classroom on a bulletin board that says,
“If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, and become more, you are a leader.”
–John Quincy Adams.
For me, Obama fulfills this quote a lot more than Bush did for the last eight years.
OK that’s enough from me. I’m off to sweep the porch because I have a feeling we’ll be entertained by a new post very soon.
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By: vgman on August 24, 2009
at 6:21 PM
‘PalinShutup,
the bigotry you mentioned came from private citizens or talk show hosts, not the mainstream press. The favoritism was so blatant Saturday Night Live played a Hillary-Barrack debate skit where the questioners fawned over Obama.’
why shouldnt the press fawn over Obama? he was the best candidate and worthy of fawning over IMHO
get over it already and discuss important stuff, this BS about female bias is making my head spin
I am FEMALE and the whining is hurting my ears
thank god black people now cant say we will never elect a black president, yes, there will ALWAYS BE some sort of racial bias just like there will always be gender bias
someday we will have a female president and then what will you people whine about?
personally I will rather bitch and moan about people dying without health insurance than about campaign BS, but that’s just me
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By: PalinShutUp on August 24, 2009
at 5:44 PM
Folks, just wanted you to know – today is Segundo Strongheart’s funeral. AKM at mudflats posted this:
The Mudflats » Light a Candle for Ann and Segundo Strongheart. http://bit.ly/IRy8Y
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By: Greytdog on August 24, 2009
at 5:17 PM
Please read this post at my blog. It’s by Thom Hartmann & it’s the simply honest answer for the uninsured. We already have the program. We don’t need another 7000 pages of bullschitt to provide health care for the uninsured.
Dear President Obama: A Modest Medicare Proposal
http://magginkat.wordpress.com
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By: magginkat on August 24, 2009
at 4:28 PM
Gale,
Well, in wikipedia it’s entered as the “first African American” woman to run for president!
In any event, I admired her courage to do so and I appreciated her stating that she had to face more discrimination as a woman than as a black.
I hope to live to see the day that sexism receives the same attention and outrage as racism has lately. Both are terrible wrongs because both deprive people of the opportunity to realize their full potential.
Imagine what the world has lost as a result of these two “isms”.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 24, 2009
at 2:15 PM
Thanks for the advice guys, I will look into that. This is a nice group of people. I just had someone call me phony on another comment post. How can you be phony when writing like this? How would you know? LOL!! Anyways, I enjoy reading everyone’s ideas and opinions. Talk to you soon…
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By: Jo on August 24, 2009
at 1:26 PM
Should they change the title of this blog to “Margaret, Helen and James”?
🙂
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By: Mrs. Elizabeth Whitaker on August 24, 2009
at 1:04 PM
Mrs. Elizabeth Whitaker
I do get verbose, don’t I?
Just don’t get me started on storm chasing and weather. Then we really have trouble. At our high school reunion on Friday night, a friend said he knew I farmed only to pay for my storm chasing habit.
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By: James on August 24, 2009
at 12:32 PM
Poolman,
Your welcome. Several years ago a friend and I were waiting to estimate our acreages and trying to make sense of all of the forms. He said “I’ve had it. I don’t need this any more.” He had his farm sale that winter, rented out his land and worked for another farmer. Many farmers like us own multiple farms. Each must be managed separately. A man from Nebraska farms four hundred acres near us. The family of one of my wife’s students has land in South Dakota.
Most of our land is rented out because of my back. This is my last year.
Remember what Shakespear said about lawyers. Our late family friend and lawyer told me “the law is a wonderful thing. You can make it do anything you want.”
I seriously considered voting for Ron Paul too. I dropped him for reasons similar to yours, and for his position on the Iraqi war. I considered a write in vote–Daffy Duck.
vgman,
we lived the same lives. Our family was the same, and I did as you. I used to listen to my 94 year old grandmother tell stories about the old days.
Have you been to Sioux County? We have Dutch relatives there. Orange City has a nice tulip festival in the spring. Did you ever attend the Spencer Fair?
D-Girl,
vgman said it very well. My wife sometimes moves close to tears when a former high student tells her how much her teaching helped. Sometimes a note on a Christmas card is good too.
Our son’s kindergarten teacher taught his class during her first year, and she followed his class’s progress until they graduated. She carried a sentimental illusion that she was as special to them as they were to her.
Our son and his sister remembered her with invitations at graduation, but many didn’t. I didn’t know how much it hurt her feelings until I made a little music video following the class from kindergarten to our son’s moving into college. She cried when I gave it to her, right there in the school office. Sometimes, it doesn’t take much to let a teacher feel appreciation.
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By: James on August 24, 2009
at 12:03 PM
James,
You certainly have alot to say! Goodness gracious. I had to reheat my coffee, let the dogs out, and water a plant or two before I could finish just one of your comments. 🙂
Great post, as usual, Helen!
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By: Mrs. Elizabeth Whitaker on August 24, 2009
at 11:39 AM
To Kathleen Wynne
Shirley Chisolm was actually the second African-American woman to run for president. Charlene Mitchell was first, 4 years earlier.
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By: Gale on August 24, 2009
at 10:35 AM
James
Growing up in northwest Iowa, I experienced a tradition that I will always remember. Reading your previous farm subsidies post reminded me of that tradition. Each Sunday morning, after church, my father’s side of the family would get together for coffee on a rotational basis between my house, two of my aunts’ houses, and my grandparents’ house. Four Sundays, four “coffees” per month. But what I found impressionable was how the males all sat in the living room and talked politics and farming, while the females all sat around the kitchen table talking (gossiping) about whatever. Where did I choose to sit and listen? With the females. One little boy with all those women around the table.
D-Girl,
I have so many mugs over the years that I have been able to put on my “thank you for the mug!” face over and over and over and over again.
My favorite and most memorable gifts have been….
A small ceramic turtle that a boy brought back from Brazil
A 3D puzzle (political view) globe that we assembled together (I collect globes)
A tiny drum painted with Mowgli and Baloo the Bear (because I directed ‘The Jungle Book’)
A small stained glass globe lamp, among many globes given to me over the years
I could go on and on, but the important thing is to find something that comes from the heart.
Find out what your child’s teacher collects (if anything).
I always write the name of the child on the gift, if possible.
This past June, I received a $50 gift certificate to Starbucks. That gift lasted all the way through the end of July. I only do a venti drip.
And now I think I better get some coffee and get into my classroom–school begins in two weeks!
Have a good day everyone!
P.S. Anybody have some good ideas how to stage Willy Wonka’s Chocolate Factory?
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By: vgman on August 24, 2009
at 9:37 AM
Honolulu Sally,
With regard to your view that as a black man, obama had a more difficult time running for president than Hillary did as a woman, here’s a quote from the first African American woman to run for president, Congresswoman Shirley Chisolm (whom, BTW, I witnessed achieve this highly historical achievement), stating what she had to deal with during her NY legislative career:
“Chisholm said that during her New York legislative career, she had faced much more discrimination because she was a woman than because she was black…”
Regarding the election and your satisfaction with the outcome…well, I would hope that you would want an honest and fair election, no matter what the outcome, because that is the foundation upon which a government “of, for and by the people” can stand. To turn the other way if there evidence that documents fraud, then I would hope you would never be satisfied with the outcome, no matter if your guy won or lost. Here’s a video clip of a documentary that was produced after the democratic primary, which clearly shows that methods used during the caucus by the obama campaign and his supporters had nothing to do with “fair and honest”, but to win at all costs:
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 24, 2009
at 9:23 AM
Thanks James. A very thorough answer, and as I expected. The government sure likes to complicate what it does. I guess where there are many lawyers, expect many rules. Alas, life will never be simple again, I’m afraid. I can see why most people would rather stay in their own little worlds with all the distractions and escapes we have and thus avoid the fact that the sky is falling.
I wonder if things could be changed if we were all able to get behind a candidate like Ron Paul and get him elected. I really considered voting for him, but knew he did not have a chance.
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By: Poolman on August 24, 2009
at 9:18 AM
Poolman,
Farmers and the government have had a socialistic relationship since the Great Depression. Farmers are about the only business people who cannot set a price for their products. They take what the market gives them regardless of how much money they earn or lose.
Farm programs change regularly, so what is true in one period is not true in the next. Livestock and vegetables are on their own. Most of the attention is directed toward grain. The government wants cheap food and pays farmers enough to keep them in business.
During surplus years, farmers reserved a portion of their land as a “set aside.” Its purpose was to lower the supply of grain to raise or stabilize prices. The government determined how much it would be and photographed each farm to be sure farmers were in compliance with what they had certified to be acerages of each crop.
They planted small grains on the set aside and mowed them at maturity to stop weeds from maturing. The small grain had to be planted by a certain date. An out of compliance farm is fined and may expelled from the system for a year or two. The set aside, soil bank or whatever it was called varied from year to year. We averaged around 20 or 30 acres per year. The idle ground was good for wild life, and the pheasant population was good in most set aside years.
In another year of surplus, the government provided low interest loans to farmers to build grain bins. The farmer could in effect “sell” the grain to the government at a higher than market price. The government calculated “rent” payable to farmers who agreed to deliver the grain at a specified date. If the price of grain rose above the government target price, the farmer could sell the grain after the government deducted what it was owed.
We got lucky the year we bought a new bin. The price of corn was about $1.80 per bushel that fall, but during the winter, it surged to over $3.00 per bushel. We sold the corn, paid the government and had enough left over to pay for the bin in one year.
Ethanol and increased world demand have reduced surpluses. Farmers no longer set land aside. They still must report the number of acres they plant to a crop, and the acreages are determined by past growing history called a crop base. We added to our permitted corn acres by combining our wheat and oats bases with the corn. Soy beans are not part of the crop base system.
Under the current plan, the government sets a break even price for corn, wheat, and similar grain. If the year’s average market price falls below that level, the government pays the difference. It also pays “counter cyclical” payments to help farmers break even. The price supports and counter cyclical payments trended down each year under the Republican’s Freedom to Farm Act since the government at that time attempted to wean farmers from the subsidies.
The most recent plan sets two tiers of subsidies if the market price goes too low. They base the difference between the government’s definition of fair market price and a year’s county average to determine the payment. If a farmer can document actual yields and total bushels produced over ten years or so, and they are above the county average, the government will pay more money based on the larger number of bushels produced. Each farmer could be audited and if he/she lies, fines are imposed.
The government will also loan money with grain as collateral. The farmer is paid a set amount based on that year’s target price. I think some loans are good for as long as three years. When the loan comes due, the farmer delivers the grain and pays any additional interest. If the price rises, the farmer can sell the grain, pay what he/she owes the government and keep the difference.
If a farmer doesn’t have enough bin space he/she can deliver it to the Coop of which the farmer is likely part owner and pay storage until the grain is sold. If the farmer underestimates the bushels or grain is damaged at home, he/she must buy more grain to make up the difference.
As I wrote, ethanol, and world shortages changed the system. Government subsidies are much more meager because prices have been higher than government target prices.
I mentioned subsidized insurance as a possible way to fix problems in our health care system. Farmers buy affordable crop insurance with government help, and they can also insure yield and price. One can choose the price needed to break even or provide a profit. If the price is too low, the insurance company makes up the difference.
That is a useful safety net for farmers who attempt to enhance income while forward contracting or playing the grain market on the Chicago Board of Trade. Farmers can buy and sell crops which won’t be planted for several years.
Farmers are sometimes eligable for disaster payments, but if they are not insured, they don’t get as much as those who are.
So to answer your questions simply, the government can buy farmer’s crops as I described.
The government does not currently pay grain farmers not to grow crops.
The government does guarantee an income during low prices. The government does not guarantee a market place for commodities because it doesn’t have to.
I’m sorry to make it sound so complicated. You should live through a visit to the FSA office. It is not my favorite way to spend a day. Ask me anything you want, and I will try to answer.
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By: James on August 24, 2009
at 8:32 AM
Vgman, I agree that the much alleged destruction of our education system is an unfair generalization. All of my children’s teachers have worked hard to teach their students despite contract issues, unfortunate classroom conditions, too many students, and having to pay for supplies out of their own pockets. I don’t always agree with the curricula decisions that are made, and hate the obsession over standardized testing, but the teachers do their best to comply. They encourage their students, often feed them when it’s clear they are unfed, and help in other unrecognized ways.
I hope your students and their parents appreciate you and show it regularly!
By the way, what’s a good teacher gift for holidays? Anything I come up with has probably been done to death during our teachers’ careers!
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 24, 2009
at 8:20 AM
oh for the love of god…
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By: Hannah from Maine! on August 24, 2009
at 8:14 AM
Anonymous, I know the people who sent the group e- mail. Her husband helped our son get a chance to make a speech to the American Legion in a contest for a small college scholarship. Several others on the list are my cousins. I believe them because I have known them all my life. They are speaking the truth.
I don’t expect you to take my word for it. Do some research and see what you find about limits of Medicare and Medicade. The doctor’s comments supported what Jo wrote.
Greytdog,
I already wrote “death panels” are not explicitly in the bills. Nobody is going read though lists of names and decide who will live or die. That is silly.
I did write rationing would be inevitable as the government’s scarce resources were allotted to those with the best potential outcomes.
That is implied in HR 3200. It happens now in government and insurance plans . It happens in single payer systems in other countries. I wrote “death panels” are an over symplification of reality, but they do make an attention getting slogan the same as “Bush lied people died,” or “Hey Hey LBJ, How many babies did you kill today?.”
In 1997 the VA advocated an end of life pamphlet, “Your Life, Your Choices” for its customers. It was slanted toward making patients feel guilty about asking for life prolonging treatment. At one time suggested reading resources included Hemlock Society literature which was later removed after complaints.
When someone complained to Bush, he stopped the pamphlet. Obama is bringing it back. ? Duckworth a VA official tried to deny it, to Chris Mathews on the network (not cable) Sunday Fox news show, but they showed the web site notation written in July. Even Arlen Specter who appeared to defend the health care legislation said the VA should not be using the pamphlet. I am certain, something like it will be used in the end of life counseling once the new law is in effect.
Our father had some home health care before he died because we were giving him 24 hour care. His mind was sharp, but his heart tended to race uncontrollably at unexpected times. I farmed at night and on weekends when my wife and kids were home to watch him. His orders were that he be revived if he was found near death. I had his medical power of attorney, so I got the attention.
The home health care boss put weakly pressure on me to make him change his mind because he was almost 95 and had lived a good life. He was draining our resources and Medicare’s.
She wouldn’t let up, and finally tried to “counsel” with my father privately. She threatened me and I ordered her out of our house. So don’t tell me “death panels” won’t exist in the form I described. They will, and they do.
Socialist camps, Obama’s birth certificate and others are too silly to mention. If there is anything else along those lines you didn’t mention, they are silly too.
I don’t care if you read my posts or not. Others will, even if they are casual observers reading by accident. I should be challenged. If you don’t, good for me.
Many of the protesters are to my right. They shout when I wouldn’t shout. Some of what they say are exaggerations or lies. It is true of every movement. The anti -war protesters were in league with communists and anarchists. They didn’t condemn violence. They operated under a time tested tradition–“the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and you get friends where you find them”. NASCAR is a real life example of that truism. Roosevelt, I think said of a Caribean dictator, “He may be a SOB, but he is our SOB.”
PalinShutup,
the bigotry you mentioned came from private citizens or talk show hosts, not the mainstream press. The favoritism was so blatant Saturday Night Live played a Hillary-Barrack debate skit where the questioners fawned over Obama.
vgman,
Good for you!. My wife is a teacher too, and she gives her students extra credit for attending caucuses of either party and writing their representatives. You teachers are unsung heroes who sometimes change lives.
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By: James on August 24, 2009
at 7:20 AM
kitkat I love my netti pot also
I suffered from chronic bronchitis and pneumonia for years, relying on antibiotics until I changed to herbal remedies including Zinc, C, my netti
pot…havent been sick with either since 2004
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By: PalinShutUp on August 24, 2009
at 1:36 AM
‘Obama was treated with kid gloves by the press. Hillary was fair game and nothing was out of bounds.’
please, I guess you missed all the racial jokes, the monkeys with obama’s name, the bigotry at the palin rallies?
let me get you some cheese for that whine
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By: PalinShutUp on August 24, 2009
at 1:26 AM
Jo, the poorest people in this country are those who are single (young or old) they work their butts off and pay the highest taxes in the nation, something’s got to give
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By: PalinShutUp on August 24, 2009
at 1:22 AM
Kathleen, I love my avatar and name and I love how it gets under the skin of palinistas like yourself
Why are you still crying about how Hillary was supposedly mistreated during the
campaign? and why are you ignoring how she accused Obama of paling
around with terrorists? and all the other lies she told?
politicians lie Kathleen, they all do, Im sure Obama exaggerated just to get himself elected also
its a new day, get over it already
Hillary has, didnt she tell you?
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By: PalinShutUp on August 24, 2009
at 1:18 AM
I have been tossing and turning and humping the leg of a blog about this called ‘a little socialism anyone?’
now i don’t have to say a thing because it all has been said here. well put and hugs to Tammy
goddess
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By: Goddess on August 23, 2009
at 9:18 PM
And while we are focused on healthcare…
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/6807/53/
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By: Poolman on August 23, 2009
at 8:17 PM
I find it rather amusing and ironic that James is all bent out of shape over what Obama has said regarding the various health care bills, but not one peep of repudiation concerning the Republican Wingnut chants of death panels, socialist re-education camps, internment camps, blah blah. Sorry, but until I hear a succinct and clear repudiation, James, I ain’t listening to your rants.
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By: Greytdog on August 23, 2009
at 7:59 PM
Margaretandhelenfan……
As long as we stepped into the classroom for a moment, as in “those days are gone”–
I would like to announce that there is a strong possibility that my 5th graders will participate as an audience in a townhall debate for our local mayoral race. My idea. I ran it by my principal a few days ago and he thinks it’s a grand idea.
In our school gym. Townhall audience in front–general public filling up the rest of the gym.
Now what questions could my students ask?
Ahhh! Not all public education classrooms are going down the drain. I get tired of too many people putting the hard work of many teachers down.
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By: vgman on August 23, 2009
at 7:44 PM
I love the phrase “who gives a rat’s ass?”
Makes me laugh every time. I once responded to my teacher in the second grade with that phrase. She didn’t think it was so funny. My classmates, however, thought it was a riot. My parents…not so much.
🙂
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By: Shelly on August 23, 2009
at 7:01 PM
Sorry folks. Thought I had added that I think alternative remedies are often more helpful.
I agree with Shelly, we need a new post. Hope to hear from Helen soon 🙂
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By: kitkat on August 23, 2009
at 6:59 PM
Who gives a rat’s ass about your opinion?
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By: Anonymous on August 23, 2009
at 6:31 PM
James, all of these emails—are “friends of friends,” there is no way to verify the story without an actual name, spreading the story is just rumor mongering in my opinion.
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By: Anonymous on August 23, 2009
at 6:29 PM
It seems of little consequence now to argue about the past election. Obama won, period, now let’s look ahead, there is plenty to be done. Kudos to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, so far she is doing a great job, she looks like she is enjoying it too.
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By: Anonymous on August 23, 2009
at 6:24 PM
My mother is a republcan. She is caught up in the “socialism” screed of the Rebuplican party. Yet, at 85, she is cashing her long deceased husband’s social security checks, letting medicare pay for her knee replacement and eye surgery, and certainly enjoyed sending her three children to public school for free for what I might add was a mighty fine education. (those days are gone.)
yet when I point these things out to her, her response is, “that’s different.”
Yes it is.
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By: margaretandhelenfan on August 23, 2009
at 6:17 PM
James, this is off topic but I figured you would be the best one to ask regarding farm subsidies. How does that work as far as the relationship with the government? Does the government actually buy up crop and do they sometimes pay for farmers to not grow crops? Or certain crops? Do they guarantee any of your income or a market price for commodities? It would be nice to be informed as to how government and farming participate. Hopefully Jackson will get his scroll wheel working, or maybe Helen will bless us with another poignant post.
Meanwhile, I’m here to learn and grow my understanding…
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By: Poolman on August 23, 2009
at 4:52 PM
Hello Helen?
We could probably use another post right about now.
Can you say “Netti pot”?
🙂
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By: Shelly on August 23, 2009
at 4:49 PM
had sinus issues for years. Even had surgery. On antibiotics all the time — one year on about 10 different antibiotics. Finally saw an acupunturist for treatments. She also had me switch to soy from dairy and use a netti pot. Not had problems since. I start to feel congested, I use the netti pot — problem solved.
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By: kitkat on August 23, 2009
at 4:37 PM
Greytdog, Had never heard of arnica gel, just looked it up and Sloan-Kettering agrees it might be good for osteo of the hands, equivalent to Ibuprophen. Thanks for the info, a friend/co gardener feels the pain more than I do, maybe we’ll do a test ourselves.
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 23, 2009
at 4:26 PM
I agree Poolman and Honolulu Sally.
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By: James on August 23, 2009
at 4:04 PM
I’ve been using arnica gel on my knee as well as on my arthritic hands. The arnica has really helped relieve the pain – without having to rely on painkillers. Hard to swim dogs when you’re doped up.
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By: Greytdog on August 23, 2009
at 3:50 PM
Honolulu Sally, your post regarding the herbal remedies is spot on. I don’t think big pharma would like all that info to get around. I believe we are equipped with much in nature that will better suit us to combat what ails us, and without all the side effects. Antibiotics are great, but over prescribed. We have done much to worsen our health in the name of modern medicine. We have been playing god much too long thinking we are smarter. Many of the medicine men of the past that we labeled as “primitive” and “savage” were better able to deal with what ails us. Just another way our “progress” has made us less healthy.
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By: Poolman on August 23, 2009
at 3:27 PM
Honolulu Sally, sexism is as ugly as racism. It is endemic to our society in a way that equals or surpasses racism. Neither is as blatant as it was, but it still exists.
As a woman, you will “NEVER have the respect of some people who have lived their lives looking down ” on women. It probably applies to men like me too, but society gives men more power.
Consider the double whamy of being a young urban black man. He suffers from racism and sexism because society regards young black women to be less dangerous than young black men.
Obama did sling some mud, during the campaign, though he was more subtle about it than his competitors.
As you wrote, he ran a masterful campaign and won with the help of friends in the media. Had Obama and Hillary both been the same gender, Obama would still have won.
I can’t speak for Kathleen, but I don’t feel cheated. Obama is a good man with good family values as you wrote, but after his failures and duplicity, I no longer trust him. It is our duty to defeat the policies with which we disagree and support the rest. Hillary said that.
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By: James on August 23, 2009
at 2:34 PM
Oops, correction to my previous previous post re Obama. He didn’t have a lower class upbringing.
He had a lower middle class upbringing. Growing up in Hawaii in rental apartments and going to one of the best private schools on full scholarship is what qualifies for lower middle class to me.
Most of the wealthy send their kids to Punahou (his Hawaii school). The non-wealthy have to really scrimp and sacrifice to pay for the tuition costs there. The ones on scholarship get half or full rides, and usually for reasons of athletics or exceptional qualities, and based on economic situation.
I believe that Obama saw the differences between the rich and the non rich, the haves and the have nots, and his compassion for the average Joe is genuine, because he has been there and walked the walk.
Kathleen, I don’t want to offend you about the electronic election process. I don’t understand it enough, and you seem to. It probably has too many flaws – those were very evident during the Florida recounts that happened in 2004.
The fact is that it was the system in place this last fall and I liked its results this time.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 23, 2009
at 2:31 PM
Obama ran a very smart campaign and did less to criticize McCain and Hillary than they and their campaign did to him. He also was a much better orator than the others. He had much greater financial support. His demeaner during the campaign was much more presidential and that appealed to voters. He presented the greatest contrast to Bush. That is how I saw it. I was very surprised that he won, because I don’t feel our votes truly count and fraud is rampant.
Unfortunately, I think McCain and Hillary knew much more about how things really run behind the scenes in our country. I do not feel that the president holds much real power in our government. It does not operate how it was originally intended. Therefore much that Obama has hoped and promised to accomplish may not get done. This is not a democracy, not even close. Anyone who believes it is is deceiving themselves. We will need a revolution if we have any chance to get back to a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
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By: Poolman on August 23, 2009
at 2:29 PM
Jo,
You are still young, and hopefully your asthma can be cured.
My girlfriend used to have asthma from childhood. She used to blame my dusty house for her attacks when she would come to visit, ha ha.
On her wedding night, she was rushed to emergency for an attack, and then she started doing something about it with herbs.
If you can find a really good herbalist (not condensed pill placebos), you might be able to breathe freely for good. She went on a regime of red clover, lobelia combination. She coughed and coughed, and hardened white stuff (old dried up mucoid from her lungs) was kicked out.
It is this old stuff that got activated and antibiotics, medication, etc. would help to build up more and more of it by drying up the mucoids, relieving the symptoms, but growing the disease.
I can attest to these herbs. When my son was a toddler, I would take him in every 2 weeks for a bad cough. Doctor said it was bronchitis and he would soon get asthma. Every 2 weeks I would get antibiotics and a cough suppressant and then return again when my poor baby would get sick again.
I gave him the herbal stuff, made him drink a lot of warm liquids, and he coughed worse than before, and then it stopped.
No more doctor visits for bronchitis, clear lungs. He is a grown up healthy young man now.
Hope that helps, and in any case, I wish the best for you.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 23, 2009
at 2:10 PM
Off topic
Geeze. Go off line for a few days and I return only to find that the discussion has lurched off in a completely different direction and I don’t want to plow up some of the same old ground. But I must admit that as a member of the same age cohort as M&H, the “Cash for Codgers” joke that showed up a couple days ago makes me a little nervous. Medicare and the supplemental health insurance programs I’ve paid into over the past half century or more have served my wife and I well, especially during the past ten years, but I would still hate to have the plug pulled just when I’m getting cranked up to give back in a different way.
Keeping busy. Where I live we have a regional, non-profit blood bank that serves most of the hospitals within a fifty mile radius of its location. On a daily basis they have a half dozen mobile bloodmobiles out and about collecting donations which have to be ferried back to the central processing lab every few hours. I am one of a number of volunteer couriers who do that for the program and in doing so am left with less free time to catch up daily on M&H’s blog,
When my wife was diagnosed with a form of Lymphoma about 6 years ago, treatments were administered at a unit in a Boston hospital that shared space with the hospital’s blood bank. Very soon I began donating blood on a 9 week schedule and as a result, over the past six plus years have managed to donate several gallons of blood there. At first I thought my medical history would be disqualifying but quickly learned that this was not a problem but when I told them that I intended to be their oldest donor, they laughed. They already had a lady of 93 who donated every other month and when I told my son after I passed the first gallon mark that I was about to catch up to him, he told me that I was already a half dozen gallons behind and he had no intention of losing to anyone who is older than dirt.
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By: jsri on August 23, 2009
at 2:06 PM
Kathleen, saw the clip criticizing Keith Olbermann for not accepting as his viewpoint that Obama was an affirmative action “hire” as candidate just as Geraldine Ferraro was an affirmative action hire as VP back in 1984.
Before I go on, I want to again let you know that I really really LIKED Hillary, and it was great to have two really good candidates running neck to neck.
Hillary and Sarah Palin DID face sexism in this past election.
However, as a woman, I would like to say that I would MUCH rather be a woman facing sexism than a black man (or woman) facing racism.
As a woman, Sarah Palin won the dicks of low intelligence or high drive.
As a woman, Hillary Clinton won the admiration of women libbers and is truly an example of woman as equals.
As a black man, Obama will NEVER have the respect of some folk who have lived their lives looking down on “those people”.
Racism is ugly. Sexism is sexism.
Maybe Obama won because he was black. Maybe Clinton lost because she was a woman.
You and James would have been happier with the other universe that didn’t happen. (Had Clinton won the Democratic nomination, would she have been able to beat McCain?)
Obama ran a perfect campaign. No slinging of dirt back, no straying from the message, giving hope rather than fear.
I am very glad to be in this country at this time with an electronic election Presidential winner who is a good family man with middle class values, lower class upbringing, and high class ideals for what is right and best for us all.
I am sorry you feel cheated. I felt that way for 8 years prior to this year, and that feeling does suck.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 23, 2009
at 1:53 PM
Jackson,
Can you put more than ten words together to convey a rational thought? Take an aspirin and try it sometime.
Name calling is for lazy and ignorant people.
Kathleen Wynn,
“Not one person…” covers a lot of territory. I happen to agree with you. Sexism is rampant.
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By: James on August 23, 2009
at 1:43 PM
James, I guess you don’t. You are far too busy high jacking other’s. Asshat.
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By: Jackson on August 23, 2009
at 1:00 PM
PalinShutUp,
I feel the same way about the obama supporters when it comes to “shutting up”, in light of the total lack of transparecy and change he was going to bring to Washington and rise above “politics as usual”, which he promised throughout his 2+ years of campaigning! You can give a pass to these numerous and significant broken promises.
Yes, I did post further up what Hillary went through during the primary. You must have missed it. Here are a couple of links that clearly show what she had to deal with throughout the primary and obama did not. Obama was treated with kid gloves by the press. Hillary was fair game and nothing was out of bounds.
The fact that you didn’t see the misogyny that was spewed by the so-called progressives and the “unbiased media” against Hillary and then against Governor Palin, indicates to me that you get all of your information about the campaign and the candidates from MSNBC, CNN, CBS and ABC. I was ashamed of the way the progressives attacked Hillary and then Palin. Whether you agree with either of their politics or not, neither deserved to be treated the way these women were.
Obama supporters appeared at a Hillary rally with signs that said “Iron My Shirt” and not one word from the media admonising them for their clearly sexist behavior towards a sitting Senator. However, I’d bet the farm that if Hillary supporters had appeared at an obama rally with signs that read “obama, shine my shoes”, they would have first been beaten up by the obama supporters and then the media would have admonished them ad nauseum and called them racists.
LET ME STATE AGAIN. EVERYONE IS WILLING TO TALK ABOUT THE EVILS OF RACISM, BUT NOT ONE PERSON HERE IS WILLING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SEXISM TRUMPED RACISM DURING THE CAMPAIGN. WHY? IT’S THE TRUTH AND RUNNING FROM IT DOESN’T MAKE IT DISAPPEAR:
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 23, 2009
at 12:59 PM
The Law: Can Atheists Be Parents? – TIME http://bit.ly/BztXV
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By: Greytdog on August 23, 2009
at 12:40 PM
Jo,
This dovetails with what you wrote about Medicaid and Medicare.
Here is part of an e mail we got from a friend of a friend.
” I have taken care of Medicaid patients for 35 years whil representing the only pediatric opthamology group left in Atlanta Georgia that accepts Medicaid. For example, in the past six months I have treated three young children on Medicaid who had corneal ulcers. This is a potentially blinding situation because if the cornea perforates from the infection almost surly blindness will occur. In all three cases the antibiotic needed for the eradication of the infection was not on the approved Medicaid list. ”
Each time Medicaid denied the doctor’s request, so he provided the treatment at his own expense.
“Get the point–rationing of care.”
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By: James on August 23, 2009
at 12:39 PM
Jo,
I’m sorry you have had such a problem.
I agree it is good Obama made health insurance reform an issue. However, we can fix failures without dismantling the system–make everyone who can’t afford any other plan eligable for Medicaid, for example. Features of the dominant Democratic proposals would do more harm than good during the long run, in my opinion.
Your experiences with elderly people seeing the foot doctors would not change for long with a single payer program. I believe they would worsen as the government insurance fell onto hard times as Medicare has now. Privately run insurance cooperatives might be more successful in covering people who now cannot get adequate insurance. They would be less a drain on our government’s budget.
So far, no one has been able to show me a plan similar to what House HR 3200 would give us which has worked on a national level. We see many examples of struggle and failure.
Congress could fix this quickly by putting us all on their government insurance program, but they won’t. And they won’t replace their coverage with what will eventually become a single payer reality if something like HR 3200 becomes law.
Jackson,
I “don’t need no stinking” blog.
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By: James on August 23, 2009
at 12:06 PM
How do you make an avatar? Do you need to have a blog, or be an official member of WordPress? Can you be an official member of WordPress withouth having a blog? I’m new to this.
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By: judith on August 23, 2009
at 12:00 PM
Greytdog, thanks for the link to their blog. I love Fjords 🙂
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By: Raji on August 23, 2009
at 11:07 AM
[…] also like you to check out a new blog I added called, “Margaret and Helen.” I think we are never to old to learn and we can all learn from our elders. These two ladies […]
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By: A Call for: Tips for Newbies « Elecpencil on August 23, 2009
at 9:10 AM
James,
Really, get your own blog already.
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By: Jackson on August 23, 2009
at 8:48 AM
I applaud Obama for having the courage to take this thing on. Healthcare in this country is much like everything else, the people that have it really have it, and the people who don’t, well no one really cares about them.
I have been a chronic asthmatic since birth. I have always been on medicine to control it. After I hit a certain age my mother couldn’t carry me on her work insurance anymore. I was going to school full-time, and working full-time for five years. I couldn’t afford my own insurance, and my job didn’t offer it. I tried to apply for Medicaid but was turned down because I made too much money. The only reason I have been able to get by is because a friend of mine had her mother bring me samples of Singulair. And instead of taking daily, I take it weekly. And a few times I warded off attacks by sitting in a steamy shower.
Another story- I used to work for a foot doctor. We saw a lot of elderly people come in. They either couldn’t see their feet, couldn’t reach them, or were diabetcs and were hesistant to cut their nails themselves. With medicare as a primary, unless they had a whole list of problems with their nerves, circulation, etc, they could not get their nails cut. Even with a secondary, if Medicare wouldn’t pay for it neither would the secondary. I know toenails don’t seem like a big deal, but those same patients would have to return due to an infection, or ulcer that could have easily been prevented. The insurance would pay like $8-10 for a nail cutting, for an ulcer or infection $45-150.
The system isn’t working.
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By: Jo on August 23, 2009
at 8:09 AM
I agree with Kieth about Hillary. Our prospects would be much better if she was our president now.
If “Cash for Codgers” worked as well as Cash for Clunkers, the number of octigenerians would surge.
I don’t get mad often, but this morning, I am as angry as UAW Tradesman was. I hope most people scroll on by, because I am blowing off steam.
Yesterday, I heard Obama say that the health care proposal will not take our choice of insurance providers away. I have read HR 3200, and as it relates to that bill, Obama is lying. Like Bill Clinton he is quibbling over the meaning of “is”.
Of course we have no single bill yet, and who knows what will be added early in the morning before the vote? Nevertheless, Obama assures us of what it will contain. And he’s not writing it.
The Cash for Clunkers program is a relatively small bit of government activity. I supported it. I thought this was just the sort of spending we needed to move more money into the economy. Yet, Obama’s administration couldn’t even do that right. The percentage of dealer claims that the government had reimbursed by Thursday was seven.
First, the administration misjudged the demand and ran out of money. Now, they have hired 300 contractors from Citigroup to work seven days a week to review applications and pay auto dealers for rebates advanced to consumers. FAA employees may help too.
Unintended consequences include lower future auto sales because of the large number of people who chose to take advantage of the windfall. Jeremy Anwyl, CBO of the Augo Website Edmunds.com wrote “There’s not going to be much momentum that’s going to drive sales to the level that we’ve seen.”
The scheme helped foreign auto makers more than native companies. It will also drive up the price of used cars which is all many poor people can afford. More people who formerly owned cars free and clear are making car payments with money they might have spent next Christmas. And we want to trust the government with our health insurance?
Mark Steyn said in Brazil, India, China, Japan, and much of Continental Europe the recession has ended. Both the French and German economies grew by .3% while ours shrank by 1%.
Unlike America, they had only minor stimulus plans, and the Germans explained by saying they couldn’t afford Obama style spending. The US, Britain, and Italy which spent large amounts of money on stimulus plans face still contracting economies. Surely other reasons than big spending or its lack helped make the difference, but I wonder if we are taking the route which gave us the “Great Depression” while for much of the world, it was merely a “depression.”
Obama supporter Steve Davis said in October, 2008, according to a blog poster, “He communicates god-like energy.”
In June, 2008, Mark Morford wrote “Many spiritually advanced people I know ( not cowardingly religious, mind you, but deeply spiritual) identify Obama as a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet…These kinds of people actually help us evolve. They are philosophers and peacemakers of a very high order,and they speak not just to reason or emotion,but to the soul.”
The our economic and energy crisis will be solved if we tap into President Lightworker’s chi-energy–otherwise known as Obama’s “Wee Wee” Plan.
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By: James on August 23, 2009
at 7:38 AM
Raji you might like this blog. They’re friends of mine
and terrific folks
http://cassidyapril.com/
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By: Greytdog on August 22, 2009
at 8:27 PM
Oh wow Keith – I think your nephew must be a buddy of my stepson! 🙂 Sometimes I sit and stare in amazement at the sheer. . . .stupidity he displays as ego. . . sigh. It’s never their fault though is it? Oh well…
So y’all a friend brought over some fresh peaches today. . .and there’s warm peach cobbler on the kitchen counter and fresh hand-churned vanilla ice cream in the freezer – if you want to stop by! Just sayin’ . . . and tomorrow, I’m making homemade catsup with the tomatoes that came along from another friend’s garden. I’m very excited!! It’s starting to feel like summer. . . but then it always feels like summer in Florida. . .
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By: Greytdog on August 22, 2009
at 8:22 PM
Oh, and Honolulu Sally…. I think Hillary has more balls than most of the “men” in Washington, not to mention she could run circles around their collective intelligence!
Keith in NM
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By: Keith in NM on August 22, 2009
at 7:28 PM
Poolman… interesting proposal (Cash for Codgers)! But on the other end of that, I’ve got two nephews I’d gladly donate…. they’re got a lot of years ahead of them, or so one would assume, and will cost the ‘system’ a lot more than I will if we’re using the present as a starting point. That way we’d avoid their long-term costs, especially since one appears to be headed for state incarceration (even bigger expense to the system), and maybe I’d have enough credits accumulated for my old age… especially since I’m relatively close in age… almost 53. At any rate, I owe you for one of the first smiles I’ve had on my face all day (back to the one nephew and the likely incarceration).
Helen, what I’d like to hear from you is a good, old-fashioned lecture on the difference between a mistake and a bad choice. Seems I can’t get my nephew to understand that his arrest for burglary (of which he’s admitted guilt) does not stem from a mistake but a choice. Huge, huge difference. Just happens to be my current beef-of-the-day.
Keith in NM
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By: Keith in NM on August 22, 2009
at 7:25 PM
Greytdog, the story of Koda is inspiring in that the vets have been willing to offer their services. However, dwarfism is a side effect of breeding mini’s. I have known several cases. I prefer the story of Molly the pony, a Katrina rescue who is now an ambassador.
http://mollythepony.com/
OT. If there are any readers from Virginia, please read about the rescue of horses in Orange County, VA and the circumstances behind this case. 21 dead horses and 20 emaciated horses were found on a 70 acre property determined to be a horse retirement foundation. This is not just your usual abuse case like Vicks. There was money and power behind this connection and there is a possibility this case will not be prosecuted due to deals between the Mackall family and the Commonwealth attorney Diane Wheeler. A forum has been activated and over 33 people showed up for the arraignment which has been reset for Oct. 16th.
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=219440
http://www.nbc29.com/global/story.asp?s=10968879
Please at least read about the case.
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By: Raji on August 22, 2009
at 6:19 PM
Alice, good one! Poolman, guffaw guffaw! Cash for Codgers…
Greytdog, with that mixture, you must be very beautiful. Hawaii has more “hapa” (white mixed with Asian, etc.) people and they really are the beautiful ones.
Kathleen, glad to know that you aren’t a Bushie.
It seems your voting for the person rather than the party is a good philosophy. However, I get the feeling that you feel that Hillary was a better candidate because she was a woman.
When I first supported Hillary, it wasn’t because she was a woman. I thought she was the best candidate. That is until I started listening to the message Barack had – that I count, that he cares, that we need change.
If Barack hadn’t won the Democratic nomination, I would have voted for Hillary. Again, not because she was a woman, but because she would have been the 2nd best candidate (IMHO).
Another question for you: Sarah Palin and Camp also said repeatedly that she was the target because of sexism. What did you think of her and her stance on sexism?
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 22, 2009
at 2:52 PM
they want THEIR america back! i wonder what the american indians would say about that!!!!!!
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By: Alice on August 22, 2009
at 2:21 PM
Ann Strongheart: Update since Segundo’s passing – http://tinyurl.com/l9tuec
HRH Sofia – thanks for the tip! My ortho told me that if it weren’t for the hours I logged in while swimming the pups, my knee would be in worse shape than it already is. . .he also told me that I cannot substitute doing canine hydrotherapy for actual human PT. Sigh
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By: Greytdog on August 22, 2009
at 2:03 PM
totally off topic but not exclusively for Greytdog…
regarding joint replacement… I had a total hip replacement 18 months ago. The MOST important thing you can do for yourself is EXERCISE. It sounds like you do plenty but it’s too important not to mention. I was able to delay my hip replacement for 7 years by doing weight lifting/nautilus exercises and Tai Ch’i and worked as a landscape gardener during that time. Eventually the ball part was ulcerated and ready to crumble and the dull pain of walking on concrete sidewalks became too painful and I had the replacement (I’m fortunate in having pretty good coverage from an HMO and the $40,000 including 4 weeks physical therapy was all covered) (btw I’m 65 now) Since my muscles were in such good condition from almost daily gym visits, my incision was held together with tape, no stiches or staples. I’m know my hard work payed off in a quicker recovery. I was back at the gym 4 weeks after surgery and back to landscape work 4 months after surgery. You sound like such a wise person, you probably already know this stuff but maybe someone else will benefit.
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By: HRH Sofia EQ on August 22, 2009
at 1:48 PM
UAW the only folks who I call racist are the folks who seek to dehumanize folks because of race. There was a really great post on HuffPo by Kimberly Krautter where she coined the phrase: Hatriotism. Hate masquerading as patriotism. I don’t like mindset that requires a separation of humanity into them vs us. I can respectfully disagree with you, I can yell at you, I can tell you that I don’t like the way you arrive at conclusions, but I would never say that you are less than me, or less than anyone else. And I would call out anyone who does. Sometimes everyone’s thinking gets muddled in the heat of emotion, but that doesn’t mean we have to give up the very tie that binds us – our humanity.
Thank you all for your best wishes. I’ll let ya know what happens.
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By: Greytdog on August 22, 2009
at 12:56 PM
My friend Darlene Jones-Owens on FB had this in her notes. I thought you might enjoy:
Obamacare 2009
Democrats, realizing the success of the President’s “Cash For Clunkers” rebate program, have revamped a major portion of their National Health Care Plan.
President Obama, Speaker Pelosi, and Sen. Harry Reid are expected to make this major announcement at a joint news conference later this week. I have obtained an advanced copy of the proposal which is named….
“CASH FOR CODGERS”: and it works like this…. Couples wishing to access health care funds in order to pay for the delivery of a child will be required to turn in one old person. The amount the government grants them will be fixed according to a sliding scale. Older and more prescription dependent codgers will garner the highest amounts.
Special “Bonuses” will be paid for those submitting codgers in targeted groups, such as smokers, alcohol drinkers, persons 10 pounds over their government prescribed weight, and any member of the Republican Party.
Smaller bonuses will be given for codgers who consume beef, soda, fried foods, potato chips, lattes, whole milk, dairy products, bacon, or Girl Scout Cookies.
All codgers will be rendered totally useless via toxic injection. This will insure that they are not secretly resold or their body parts harvested to keep other codgers in repair.
Run my old friend, Run! And remember you heard it here first. Please don’t send me any hate mail..
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By: Poolman on August 22, 2009
at 12:45 PM
For those that know of Leonard Peltier, he was denied parole recently, so the fight is not yet over. There is still much corruption to expose and still much healing that needs to take place in our nation.
http://www.reporterfreelance.info/2009/08/usa-denial-of-parole-to-leonard-peltier-after-more-than-32-years-in-prison-disappointing/
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By: Poolman on August 22, 2009
at 12:35 PM
….’Became an independent after the democratic primary in response to the DNC’s silence to the horrific treatment Hillary received from many of the obama supporters’….
Kathleen, wasnt it you who posted this same thing a few blogs back?
except you threw the blame at the ‘Obama camp’ itself that time?
I asked you to specifically show what ‘horrific treatment’ Hillary received? but you never replied?
I dont mind when people make statements as long as they stand behind them
I have to question the sincerity of your statement
specially when Hillary is the one who started the ‘Obama pals around with terrorists’ rumor that later the McCain palin ticket ran with
excuse me if I dont feel too sorry for the treatment she most probably deserved
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By: PalinShutUp on August 22, 2009
at 12:25 PM
They say all is fair in love and war. I say all is fair in politics. At least that is what it has come down to. Whatever it takes to win. Racism, sexism, liberalism, conservatism, socialism, and all other labels we either wear or use to label others are mere mechanisms we need to justify our own isms and actions. If we could practice the golden rule, we would be able to advance as a people. The golden rule exists in all cultures and religions, but is the one rule we have the hardest time living up to. We usually discount the simplistic and prefer the complex, somehow believing complexity is a higher path. Instead of tit for tat, we should rise above and realize that those that label others and take sides haven’t yet matured, and truthfully may never get there. It is a reflection on their upbringing and a reason for us to continue to strive for perfection. Not that we can ever get there in this life, but the journey would be more pleasant and we would bring many more along, IMHO.
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By: Poolman on August 22, 2009
at 12:19 PM
UAW,
I agree with you that racism is wrong and it’s still exists; however, sexism is wrong too and I never hear the same outrage or concern over that ‘ism that I hear about racism. Throughout the democratic primary, that’s all we heard about and everyone was being accused of it if they did not agree or support obama. That’s wrong too. Obama was given an unprecedented opportunity by the MSM giving him 30 minutes of free prime air time to lecture the country about racism. Hillary wasn’t even allowed to defend herself against this ad hominen attacks, much less be given equal time on prime time TV to lecture the country about sexism. Where were our so-called progressive brothers, to whom we trusted viewed women as equals and respected them as well? The women make up the majority of the democratic party and we are the deciding factor in whether or not a democratic candidate gets elected and the democratic party had the unmitigated nerve to treat one of their own in such a dispicable manner?
Hillary was being attacked with vitrolic misognynistic/sexist attacks daily by a media that is supposed to be “objective” and not spew opinion nor choose sides for one candidate over another. But they clearly were biased in Obama’s favor (except for Fox News). She also was attacked with dispicable sexist epithats on the progressive blogs – DailyKos, Democratic Underground, The Huffington Post, and others, who supported obama.
Women represent 52% of the population in America, but we are still treated like second class citizens, much like the AA’s were throughout American history, but things haven’t changed as much for women as they have for AA.
Obama could not stand up and do the right thing by defending Hillary during the primary against these sexist attacks, but he can defend Prof. Gates during a WH press conference, without knowing all of the facts of the case.
Many of us who supported Hillary were also attacked in similar fashion by our fellow democrats. We were called horrible names that rivaled those used against AA’s and no one, not one person of the DNC leadership, democratic party (except for a few brave ones, like Geraldine Ferraro and Governor Rendal) stood up and defended Hillary and all women against these outragous sexist attacks. Where were you?
You come here and talk about racism, but not a word about the rampant sexism that still exists in this country. I would think anyone who was sensitive to the wrongs of racism would be equally as sensitive about the wrongs of sexism and speak out against that as well.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 22, 2009
at 11:13 AM
Lori,
I’m civil to you, yet you are not. Did I touch a nerve?
Please read slowly so you will understand.
Obama gambled that he could force his agenda rapidly before the opposition could organize. He knew his proposed changes were more radical than half the country would accept without a connection to a true emergency.
He wanted to improve his odds with a quick pre- recess vote. Obama knew persuasion would be more difficult after protesters had their say during the recess.
Thus, introducing so many new changes so quickly was a gamble. Rushing a vote in late July was playing it safe. I would have done the same.
Do you now understand two simultanious strategies were in play?
Anonymous, the next few years will prove which of us is silly.
Greytdog, I like your comments, especially since we have Koreans and Filipinos in our family. Good luck with your operation.
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By: James on August 22, 2009
at 10:21 AM
greytdog….
“on the subject of racism: it is my opinion, and my opinion only, that racism is wrong. But it does exist – everywhere. Sometimes its disguised as nationalism, sometimes it pretends to be patriotism, sometimes it pretends to be Christian, or Muslim, or Jewish. But at all times racism is fear.”
did you just call Lori,Tine, and Teresa racists….In my 35+ years of “shop talk” I can come up eith a lot of names for them but racist wouldn’t be one…unless they have something against Magyars
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 22, 2009
at 10:20 AM
Greytdog,
Thank you for your kind words. The work is far from done, though. We desperately need the American people to unite, as they have on the healthcare reform issue, and put that same passion into taking back our elections.
It just drives me nuts when people say that “we are going to vote them out”…well, no you’re not. It’s a shuffle game and the power elites control who gets into power and who is kicked out. The citizens have no say in the matter. For any politician to be “voted out” by the citizens, there must be such overwhelming citizen opposition to that candidate, that they simply find another “political cog” and run that person to offset the citizen’s outrage for any particular politcian.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 22, 2009
at 9:58 AM
greytdog….
Goodluck and a speedy recovery after your operation…..
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 22, 2009
at 9:53 AM
To Kathleen Wynne – Thank you thank you for all the work BlackBoxVoting.org did in Florida. You guys so totally rock!
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By: Greytdog on August 22, 2009
at 9:48 AM
UAW et al, on the subject of racism: it is my opinion, and my opinion only, that racism is wrong. But it does exist – everywhere. Sometimes its disguised as nationalism, sometimes it pretends to be patriotism, sometimes it pretends to be Christian, or Muslim, or Jewish. But at all times racism is fear. When I was in elementary school, I was knocked over on the playground, kicked in the ribs, spit on, and called the “n” word. Didn’t have a clue what that meant. Had to ask my mom what I had done to make those kids so mad at me. Now when I lived overseas, I had to straddled two cultures – the Filipino and white cultures. Filipinos often regarded me as less than because of the Asian idea of racial purity, and the white culture saw me as “not worthy” because of the belief that Mixed raced kids were just garbage kids. In Europe, I was mocked for looking Spanish; in the USA I was mocked for having a slight British accent. . .as I got older people started seeing me as “exotic” which in So GA meant whore. Sheesh. You can’t win. So now I’m just me and when someone chastises me for not speaking Spanish cuz they think I look like I should, I usually respond with a not so polite French response. If someone accuses me of trying to pass as white, I point out they are successfully passing for stupid. The point is is that we all have our prejudices and we all compartmentalize the world. I don’t like it, I understand it, but I don’t always try to play by those rules. UAW if someone calls you a honkey, respond as my nephew once did – “Thank you very much for noticing”. Don’t nurse or nurture someone else’s prejudice, give it back, tell them it belongs to them, and carry on with YOUR life.
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By: Greytdog on August 22, 2009
at 9:46 AM
Delurker Girl,
I have and still do work on election reform. I am the former Associate Director of Black Box Voting.org. Our investigative work into the election issue was featured in the HBO documentary film, “Hacking Democracy”. Reality check, if citizens don’t take back their elections by demanding a return to hand counts, at the precinct on election night, out in the open for all to see the actual counting of the votes, then we will not be able to take back our government.
HONOLULU SALLY,
Sorry, I missed your questions about what I thought about Bush & Co. – Hated them!
Became an independent after the democratic primary in response to the DNC’s silence to the horrific treatment Hillary received from many of the obama supporters and, in particular, the MSM and most of the political pundits. I believe both parties are corrupt and didn’t want to be part of either of them.
I now look at the person running for office, and not the party. Ideology is not good for the democratic process as it is intolerant of opposing opinions and beliefs. America is not made up of only liberals or conservatives. It’s a mixture of both and we cannot achieve anything of substance governing either from the far right or the far left. It causes division and chaos.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 22, 2009
at 9:41 AM
Here’s your Weekend “AWWWW” moment folks
Meet Koda, the little horse who could – ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) http://bit.ly/3STivr
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By: Greytdog on August 22, 2009
at 9:37 AM
A gem from Jon Stewart. He’s on a roll these days.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-19-2009/fox-news–the-new-liberals
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 22, 2009
at 9:36 AM
Imaginista……yes some people where nice to me and others told me over and over that the ONLY reason I didn’t vote for Obama was because I was a RACIST….I’ve never called a black man a Ni#$*r but i’ve had more than one look at me and call me a HONKY MOTHERF%$R to my face….which one is the racist….
you’re damned right I was pissed…and I don’t feel that what I said was any worse….
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 22, 2009
at 9:33 AM
whirrledpeas…
the girl that barney frank insulted was a Democrat……a LaRouche Dem…but still a Dem
but he has one thing right….Frank admonished “I never asked you to trust the government. The government is not your mother or father, or your doctor…No one should ever trust the government, people should use their rights as citizens.”……that includes protests doesn’t it….
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 22, 2009
at 9:04 AM
James has gone silly on us again. We all know his duel personality. anonymous, hah.
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By: Anonymous on August 22, 2009
at 9:01 AM
James your mouth is like a ducks ass shit just runs out of it…
Wasn’t it just a day or so ago you were arguing with me about how Obama DID NOT take a gamble on allowing the recess to take place without a bill? Now you are saying he gambled? Do you ever read your own posts? EVER>?
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By: lori on August 22, 2009
at 8:27 AM
I am this Anonymous. I forgot to log in.
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By: James on August 22, 2009
at 8:16 AM
Headlines on this morning’s Drudge Report include:
Obama Hikes 10-Year Deficit to $9 Trillion
Charlie Cook: Dem situation has ‘ slipped completely out of control’…
Pelosi: House Can’t pass Bill Without Gov’t Run Plan
Noonan:Pull the Plug on ObamaCare
Stephanopoulos: Americans ‘Worried He’s Getting in Over His Head…’
Obama’s Blame-game list…
Mike Allen and Jim Vandehei of Politico wonder whether President Obama’s “Big Bang” approach to his first year in office might have been misguided. The term applies here to Obama’s pushing a variety of major changes into law within months.
A “good crisis” does give a president the opportunity to enact legislation which in normal times would have been regarded as too radical. But the legislation must be seen as connected to a serious problem.
Our major problem is now the recession and huge deficits. Cap and Trade is viewed as anti- growth, and the health insurance plan as too expensive. Hence there is a disconnect between those bills and the problem among over half of the voters.
Allen and Vandehei also wrote ” The confidence of Obama’s aids was bolstered by their fresh memory that a similar approach had worked very effectively for then-President George W Bush after the Sept. 11 attacks. With the public on edge, Bush was able to enact restrictive polices under the banner of protecting American soil, and build an entire new department of government that voters otherwise might have opposed. The economic meltdown would be Obama’s Sept 11- the predicate for sweeping legislation that he wanted to enact anyway. ”
Bush’s post 9/11 policies were correctly preceived as directly related to 9/11. His anti-terrorism polices had bipartisan support. In fact it was the Democrats who wanted the new government department Obama is proceeding with virtually no Republican support.
In my opinion, Obama should have concentrated on stabilizing our economy. Later, he should have introduced other changes slowly over time. Obama took a gamble because he believed he would never again own such political capital. He may get his insurance bill, but the rancor it has caused will cost Democrats in the next election.
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By: Anonymous on August 22, 2009
at 8:10 AM
I haven’t had time to check here, and I am tired after an all highschool reunion last night. The festivities resume in a bit.
I was in a hurry and used too few words to clarify my position when I last posted. Obama outsourced the bill to the House.
I didn’t mean to imply Nancy wrote the bill. As Speaker of the House, I am sure she made her opinions known and watched the bill’s progress as part of her job. In that sense, Pelosi was more involved in the bill than Obama. Many people wrote the bill, many of them unknown to us.
A Democrat on a talk show said Republicans and conservative Democrats contributed heavily to the bill and he cited scores of amendments. The Republican replied they were mostly procedural and not substantive.
That conservatives would write and then oppose what they considered to be objectionable parts of the bill defies logic.
Obama “Allowed” various versions of the health insurance bills to pass because that is how it is done. Competing bills are born on most issues. He and his advisers hoped to avoid what they regarded as Hillary’s mistakes by speaking in generalities. Letting Congress write the details gave his office cover.
It is also fact that Obama wanted the bill out of committee and put to a vote before the August recess. He likely knew the political momentum would slow during August.
It is also fact that many in Congress had not read the bill. Rep Dingle, I think said it would be silly to read the bill without a couple of days and lawyers to help.
Just before they went home representatives had a cram session because they realized many of their critics had read the bills. They were told to be quiet and take notes as aids read the bills’ contents. Had Congressmen not realized people would be grilling them on the details they would have been as ignorant about the bill as with the stimulus bill which many had little time to read.
To say that Obama won and it is time to get on board is not what liberals said when Bush was president. They fought him whenever they could as they should have. Now that the tables are turned it is our duty to oppose policies we feel are bad for the country. Our legislators and president are not dictators. They must listen to everyone if they want to stay in office after the next election.
Obama didn’t liberate Iraq. Bush did, and now the president is largely following the policies Bush set in place before he left office.
I have been mildly tortured, and I know the difference between torture and abuse. It gave me a slight disability. Abu Greb was not torture. As far as I know none of the survivors of that awful time bear physical scars as I do.Water boarding occupies a twilight zone between abuse and emotional torture.
A number of prisoners are alleged to have died due to torture, most in Afghanastan. I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t still happening.
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By: Anonymous on August 22, 2009
at 7:30 AM
Don’t know if you all saw The Daily Show this week, but Stewart interviewed Betsy McCaughey and leave it to him to respond in a way everyone should have been responding to all the craziness. Be sure to watch both parts. Oh, btw, McCaughey lost her job yesterday. Coincidence?
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-17-2009/exclusive—betsy-mccaughey-extended-interview-pt–1
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-20-2009/betsy-mccaughey-pt–2
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By: kitkat on August 22, 2009
at 7:23 AM
President Obama’s
Weekly Address 8/22/09:
Myths and Morality in
Health Insurance Reform
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 22, 2009
at 7:01 AM
greytdog says:
I were talking about this tonight & he mentioned that the Obama campaign slogan was Yes WE can – not Yes He can or Yes I can – but WE – WE are the real element of change – WE are the ones who must make our voices heard – I’ve written, emailed, called, tweeted, & now plan to march. But I also encourage everyone to let your reps/senators know that “life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness” is dependent on the well-being & wellness of the people.
__________________________________
I say: right on sistar!
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By: lori on August 22, 2009
at 5:41 AM
Greytdog, that is AWESOME! You are truly blessed. I pray super fast healing for your knee and special divine guidance for your surgeon. I’m glad our advocate behind the scenes reaches into our realm to right things and warm our hearts in real and tangible ways, assuring us that ultimately He loves us. God Bless you! 😀
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By: Poolman on August 21, 2009
at 11:30 PM
You gals are right on the mark in all of your blogs. I nominate the both of you to a new cabinet post: Common Sense!
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By: Dion on August 21, 2009
at 10:54 PM
Oh Margaret and Helen,
You make me laugh!! I love you two!!!!
If only the citizens of the USA were half as wise as you two are.
I new follower,
Pam – San Diego, CA
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By: Pam on August 21, 2009
at 9:52 PM
A friend sent this to me. . . so thought i’d share with you. It made me smile
Easier you are so right about happy endings being so few & far between – this just really adds more impetus to my desire to really agitate for health care reform. I will be forever grateful & humbled by my friend’s gift, & the only way I see to “pay it forward” is to work my butt off so everyone can have accessible & affordable health care. S.O. & I were talking about this tonight & he mentioned that the Obama campaign slogan was Yes WE can – not Yes He can or Yes I can – but WE – WE are the real element of change – WE are the ones who must make our voices heard – I’ve written, emailed, called, tweeted, & now plan to march. But I also encourage everyone to let your reps/senators know that “life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness” is dependent on the well-being & wellness of the people.
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By: Greytdog on August 21, 2009
at 9:47 PM
Greytdog, I am so happy for you! It is sad to have to worry about medical issues on top of all the other worries life seems to throw each day. I finally went to the Convenient Care this past Monday after suffering with a UTI for about a week and a half while I waited to get paid so I could make the copayment. I was so happy when the doctor told me that the Schnuck’s store offered the antibiotic I would need for free. I thanked them very much for offering such a nice service.
I was diagnosed with RA about 7 years ago and pay about $115 a month for my medications, which is the price of the copay with my insurance. I talked to the owner of my company this afternoon, and one of the things we talked about was health insurance. Our company plan was slated to go up by 40 percent this year (we are a small company of less than 30 full-time employees). In the end, we were able to work it down to a 21 percent increase and a reduction in benefits. Better than nothing, I suppose. But knowing that the rate has increased 21 percent, the benefits have dropped, and there is no way in heck I’m going to get a 20 percent raise is sort of depressing.
Last year after I had to have surgery to remove a growth in my nose that was inhibiting my breathing, the bills caused me to fall so far behind that I ended up declaring bankruptcy. I pretty much live paycheck to paycheck now, but that’s okay. It’s just a little unsettling.
All I know for sure is that we definitely need to fix our healthcare system. My situation is far from unique, and so many others have it so much worse.
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By: Joni Δ on August 21, 2009
at 9:00 PM
Kathleen, you seem like exactly the right person to work on this issue. I admire your passion! I wonder how you feel about the electoral system? I wonder how much individual votes matter when the electorates can vote how they want to rather than by the area they represent. (Somewhat like congress!)
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 21, 2009
at 8:54 PM
Yes, they want the America of September 17, 1787. Only white men who owned property were considered citizens in that year. Unless of course they mean the America of October 11, 1492. The day before Columbus spotted land.
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By: Alan on August 21, 2009
at 8:34 PM
Happy for you Greytdog! Hope all goes well. Your benefactor’s actions kind of tell me all is not lost, and make you keep faith in humanity. Unfortunately, for the majority without health insurance, happy endings are few and far between. The news this week were all about Obama being down in the polls and his chances at reelection being slim because of the health care debate. He had the guts to go out on a limb for his beliefs. Bill and Hillary Clinton did the same and I will always admire them for that. There is an underground, which support for Obama is unwavering so far. They should not count him out too early. So, you get well Greytdog, and go to Washington, and march for the rest of us that may not be able to make it. About time we get heard. Thanks.
Kathleen Wynne, I am sorry your candidate lost and you feel she was ill-treated. Won’t you please let go of the bitterness? It just gets you down and gets in the way of getting anything accomplished. Maybe, Hillary is trying to tell her supporters, when she joined the Obama administration, to live and let live, and to let go of the bitterness. Life is too short. Hope you don’t take this badly. Thanks.
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By: Easier on August 21, 2009
at 7:37 PM
I recently graduated college, and me and my classmates were very hopeful about the future. We were a bunch of journalism kids, and we were fortunate enough to have some great professors teach us about fairness, truth and making informed decisions. We know what’s wrong with our country and we want to make things better. But it’s very hard to show up at town hall meeings and express our side when we are busy trying to find a job, keep food on the table, and of course, pay back Sallie Mae.
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By: Jo on August 21, 2009
at 7:33 PM
Greytdog – I’m tearing up. And I don’t tear up.
I wish this could happen to everyone. This is why we need reform.
Now, go. Heal. March.
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By: judith on August 21, 2009
at 4:02 PM
Oh Greytdog, congrats. It brought tears to my eyes to know someone did such a wonderful thing for you.
Lori, thanks for the link. I’ve signed up on the facebook link and am glad they are looking at a weekend. Hope we’ll see Greytdog there!
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By: kitkat on August 21, 2009
at 3:59 PM
That was an excellent article by Nicholas Tucker. We can hope that people some day will want to have a seat at the Second Table.
I see a climate of change in our younger generation around the world. Today on NPR one of the directors for Playing For Change was a guest. An 80 year old woman called in and said she was about to throw out her TV until she saw a program about Playing For Change and decided there might be something worth watching after all (Could that have been Helen :-).
Another guest on NPR today was a young medical intern who discussed meetings he and his fellow interns were having with Congressmen regarding health care. Meetings like these are not in the media.
It just may be time for our so called “older and wiser” tutors to step down and see what our younger generation can do as many of them have not grown up with the seeds that were planted at the First Table as described by Mr. Tucker.
We can hope!
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By: Raji on August 21, 2009
at 3:40 PM
kitkat…and anyone else interested…
I told you I’d keep you posted on the march on Washington.. I ran across this and thought of you.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/21/770295/-March-for-the-Public-OptionSeptember-13th
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By: lori on August 21, 2009
at 3:14 PM
Greytdog, there are good people out there. I have a feeling you have done enough good deeds in your lifetime that this is some one’s way of paying back. Now go get your knee fixed so you can be at the head of the March 😉
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By: Raji on August 21, 2009
at 3:13 PM
Wow, greytdog, that is really amazing!
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By: Stacey on August 21, 2009
at 3:05 PM
Hey y’all, Alaska Dispatch has a wonderful article that really is a must read – by Nicholas Tucker
“Waiting at the table, racism or not” http://tinyurl.com/lbsuts
girlvet, that’s why end of life counseling is so very important. Living wills, medical directives, assignment of medical surrogates/power of atty – all help to ensure death with dignity. I’ve been very blessed to have parents who held strong views of life/death & who made sure all of us were equally informed of their wishes. because of their example (+ the Schiavo fiasco) I have made sure that all my end-of-life ducks are in a row.
on Pres. Obama: I’m hoping he can actually relax on his vacation. I’m sure the stormy seas of Hurricane Bill skirting the Vineyard will be a piece of cake compared to what he’s faced so far. . .
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By: Greytdog on August 21, 2009
at 2:50 PM
Sometimes grandma needs the plug pulled. Take it from someone who has seen poor grandmas life prolonged by stupid relatives
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By: girlvet on August 21, 2009
at 2:36 PM
greytdog, good things happen to good people..;-) I believe there are no accidents in life!!
I was proud of all of our candidates this year (until I found out about Edwards). I would have been happy with any of them as president. I just thought Obama had the personality to lead us into the 21 century.
August has never been his best month.. LOL Have faith he’ll get er done.!
namaste’
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By: lori on August 21, 2009
at 2:33 PM
Congrats and happy day Greytdog!
I had another response to Kathleen and kudos for the Rachel Maddow link, etc. But it got lost in cyberspace.
No matter, I just hope you will be able to say that you are glad Obama is President one day.
I am glad Hillary is doing such a fine job as his Secretary of State.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 21, 2009
at 2:21 PM
“and today the client who recommended my ortho stopped in – to tell me to schedule the surgery appt NOW cuz all expenses had been taken care of – I am floored & speechless. But even more overwhelming, my client spoke to Rep. Grayson & VP Biden and told them that the public option was vital. He told me he’d never thought about it much until he realized he actually knew someone who was falling through the cracks. . .and so he told me I had to get better fast so I could head up to DC for the March for Healthcare – WOW. oh just WOW.”
Well, now I have tears in my eyes, especially about the generosity of your client. How wonderful that s/he has the ability to do that AND IS CHOOSING TO DO SO. What an excellent gift, and it’s clear that you deserve that kind of generosity.
Me: I’m one of the lucky ones. I got two prescriptions today, cost: $6. Saw the cardiologist yesterday and today, will again next week and next month, and it’s costing me nothing. I’m on a pension, but I’d be glad to have it cost me a little something if that meant that someone else could have the same treatment.
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By: Susan in CT on August 21, 2009
at 2:05 PM
I don’t know why I have never heard of you, but you are right on. I really enjoyed your post, and will now have to read your site often. Thank you.
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By: Jo on August 21, 2009
at 1:56 PM
Kathleen Wynne, I voted for Hillary too. Too many American forget they can still write in qualified candidates even though the national party didn’t select them. I still think she would make a better president. Who knows, she may still get a chance to prove us right.
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By: Jo Atlanta on August 21, 2009
at 1:55 PM
What a story, Greytdog…..congratulations!!!
🙂
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By: Mary on August 21, 2009
at 1:50 PM
I especially enjoyed Rachel’s response at the end of the pizza-order analogy – totally ignored Kent and ordered what the folks wanted. . .oh yeah! I’d like to ignore Kent too. . .and Boehner, Grassley, et al.
And now – as you all know I have no insurance. And I have to have knee surgery. So I’ve been busting ass with work to get the money as well as ensure my assistants don’t lose income. . . & while a lot my work is pro bono on my part, or the fees so downsized as to rarely see a profit (I pour everything back in), my clients are loyal and caring and tremendous. Due to rain business has been a bit off – and today the client who recommended my ortho stopped in – to tell me to schedule the surgery appt NOW cuz all expenses had been taken care of – I am floored & speechless. But even more overwhelming, my client spoke to Rep. Grayson & VP Biden and told them that the public option was vital. He told me he’d never thought about it much until he realized he actually knew someone who was falling through the cracks. . .and so he told me I had to get better fast so I could head up to DC for the March for Healthcare – WOW. oh just WOW.
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By: Greytdog on August 21, 2009
at 1:39 PM
Sally, I did see Rachel Maddow’s pizza ordering episode! Excellent!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/32469091
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 21, 2009
at 1:27 PM
Honolulu Sally,
Saw the pizza ordering on Rachel and thought it was a great analogy. Did you see last night when she talked about the Repubs now saying they want 75 to 80 votes to “pass” the bill? Somehow, 60 isn’t enough, esp. when only 51 are needed.
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By: kitkat on August 21, 2009
at 1:25 PM
I’ll cosign that sally! excellent!
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By: lori on August 21, 2009
at 1:08 PM
Honolulu Sally,
I voted for Hillary and was attacked for it by the obama supporters! What was that all about? I thought I lived in America.
Here’s a taste of what Hillary was put through during the primary. None of the guys had to deal with this crap:
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 21, 2009
at 12:41 PM
Hmmm. We already had two many Bushes, I almost voted for Hillary because she was a woman, and I am dang glad and proud to have a President respected by the rest of the world, has intelligence, compassion for ordinary citizens, and doesn’t have the party of Limbaugh, Reagan, Bushes, Cheney, et al.
I can empathize with the people that didn’t vote for Obama – I didn’t vote for Bush. The difference is that we didn’t make up stuff about Bush as much as the opponents of Obama seem to, and that included Hillary during her run.
Just watched Jon Stewart’s Daily Show (link to Whirled?) with the woman who started the whole shebang about the death panels included in the bill. What a crass act she is. Her leaps of assumption were unbelievable. Her “evidence” was non existing. Her “proof” was in her spin.
I do hope the Dems just say screw you to the party of no (anyone see Rachel Maddow’s pizza ordering episode?) and get together a true universal health care plan modeled after the best in the world (France?) and pass it with a 60 vote majority.
Those who don’t like it, show up at the polls come 2010. I’ll be there too, to cancel your “no”.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 21, 2009
at 12:21 PM
Stacey,
True, but sooner or later, we have to face the reality that we don’t have a long time to turn this around by taking back our elections.
The short-term is irrelevant if the voice of the people has been silenced. Then we are just spectators, wringing our hands and screaming in protest, but in the end, have little control over the outcome.
Unless and until citizens unite in taking back their elections, no real change that benefits the people is going to occur. Elections are citizens only power to keep in check those who are in power. If that power is usurped by a system that is controlled by the party leaders and power elites, then we’ve already lost any way.
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 21, 2009
at 11:50 AM
Kathleen – maybe so. But that doesn’t help out with health care in the short term down it. THAT’s my point.
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By: Stacey on August 21, 2009
at 9:30 AM
Stacey,
Election reform is most definitely about money, but that money (in the billions of taxpayer dollars) buys machines that have been proven to be easily hacked and literally “open for business”. However, elections are not about “machine security” per se, they are all about transparency and the ability for citizens to “see” their votes being counted, without having to trust someone (i.e., some IT person “managing” the machines while they “count” all the votes through the central tabulator or an election official after counting the votes in a back room with the door closed, that their votes had been counted as cast. Really? How do we know they were counted as cast?
Recently, the German Supreme Court banned voting systems, not because of money and/or security issues, but simply because the machine process of counting votes totally undermines the public nature of elections, as well as effectively destroys the necessary transparency for the democratic process to work as intended. The democratic process simply doesn’t exist otherwise, but is nothing more than the illusion of one. I don’t know about you, but that’s just not good enough for me and, I hope, shouldn’t be for any American. It is, however, ironic that former Nazi Germany is more attuned with what the definition of “a transparent election” should be than the greatest democracy in the world is and to support that observation, are willing to take immediate steps to ensure that citizens can see their votes being counted!! Why can’t we do that here?
As for what occurred during the democratic primaries…here’s an extensive report on what occurred in caucuses throughout the country. I urge you to read through it and decide for yourself if the process was “fair and honest”:
Click to access CaucusAnalysis.pdf
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 21, 2009
at 9:15 AM
“But we bow down and offer up our health and our funds to the all-mighty corporation. ”
And the sacrosanct capitalist system and the “free market.” Because it’s too scary to consider anything else, even when something like HEALTH is concerned.
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By: Susan in CT on August 21, 2009
at 8:42 AM
Keith – I couldn’t agree more about the watered down plan. That honestly scares me most. And about how Obama will be judged. Although I do think that if Hillary had failed they would extrapolate it to all women. I’ve just seen that too much in my real life. Wish I had a dime for every person (male and female) that told me they could never work for a woman just because they happened to have one bad woman boss.
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By: Stacey on August 21, 2009
at 8:41 AM
What I wouldn’t give to see Helen on a stipper pole.
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By: Toby on August 21, 2009
at 8:07 AM
Stacy, per your post today at 11:38am…. I agree so very much…. I so badly wanted to vote for Hillary but the right is so damned afraid of her that they would have blocked her from doing anything.
I did vote for Obama and am still very glad that I did. One thing I fear is if he’s in office when it all goes to hell-in-a-handbasket (and we know from recent history that any number of minor factors happening at the right time can cause world havoc), it will set back the advancement of people of color in politics. They’ll blame him because of his color. If Hillary were in the same place I don’t think it would affect women in the same way; they’d blame it on her just because she’s Hillary, not because she’s a female.
As for health-care reform, I’m afraid if it happens it will be so watered down that it will only make matters worse. The lies funded by the right and their insurance/big pharma contributors are an insult to our country’s honor and integrity. EVERY other industrialized country offers their citizens a better deal. But we bow down and offer up our health and our funds to the all-mighty corporation. All hail. Aw hell no!
Keith in NM
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By: Keith in NM on August 20, 2009
at 5:12 PM
vgman, I like Obama and I believe he speaks from the heart most of the time. I truly want to believe he has our best interest in mind. I just don’t know how much real power he holds. I think he is limited in what he can actually do. I know the previous administration showed us that Bush was not the decider, like he told us. Most of his deciding was made by others.
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By: Poolman on August 20, 2009
at 4:19 PM
Hey, Dave G, do you have health insurance? Are you on Medicare? Unless you have unlimited wealth, your healthcare is already “rationed” by the health care industry. Most of us that do have insurance either are in an HMO or PPO plan where you are either forbidden from going outside of the HMO or paying through the nose if you do.
As for Republicans being smarter than Democrats — if that’s the case, how on earth do you explain George W. Bush, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh or all of Fox “News.” Smart like a fox, perhaps, but intelligent? Pandering to the worst in us, but intelligent? Today’s Republicans would call Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt anti-American, socialist, pinko traitors.
As a Libertarian, your claim that “‘[h]ard work, personal responsibility, private enterprise and free markets, and charitable giving determined by the giver and not the government, that’s what has always made America great.” I suppose you’d like to go back to those great old days when child labor was legal, no one had the vote except white men of property, private enterprise polluted the land for their profit, the free market meant all that a monopoly could get away with, and the rest of us had to rely on the crumbs from your table.
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By: K2inSR on August 20, 2009
at 4:03 PM
Oh I see Poolman. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. 😉
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By: lori on August 20, 2009
at 3:45 PM
“What are you referring to when you mention the conspiracy theories?” – Lori
New World Order
Illuminati, Bilderberg group, Free Masonry
The Federal Reserve, a quasi government entity that is not accountable to the people and we have not been able to see an audit of since 2002
Even 911 theories, like building 7 of world trade, reports of explosions separate from the plane collisions, etc. There are too many conflicting reports and unanswered questions. There are credible people that believe this was staged or at least felt we had advance warning.
I cannot dismiss these anymore as just a bunch of paranoid fantasies. They hold much validity and truth, IMO. I posted a video earlier in this thread that I think everyone should at least watch and make their own judgment on. If even a part of it is truth, we should be concerned.
Though the banks received bailout money, it has not trickled down to consumers. There are not many loans being made. My industry is being allowed to blow in the wind. Banks have bought up assets and are increasing their hold over the people, putting many in a position where they will only be able to turn to government for their livelyhood.
Health care reform is the focus right now. I think it is merely a center stage diversion to hold our focus. The rich are becoming richer and the poor are becoming poorer.
The president may have stopped the torture, but he did not take away the ability for us to torture. The stimulus package was rammed through without giving us a chance to view it, so the promised transparency was not there.
So, therefore I am not going to just sit back and trust that we are moving in the right direction. There are plenty of positives, but overall I am a little disappointed in where we may be going.
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By: Poolman on August 20, 2009
at 3:34 PM
“I am starting to see that there are forces behind these people that really determine our destiny.”
Poolman, I also agree with you and have thought the same for quite some time.
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By: Raji on August 20, 2009
at 3:12 PM
Poolman,
I followed your link to the almost two hour documentary film about Obama. Actually, the focus was more about the “others” above who pull all the strings. I read a book about the Bilderberg group a few years ago.
Oh, how I’d love to take that power away from those who think they have it all. We haven’t even begun to amass the power among us all.
I think we elected a leader that has been snookered by the powerful. But I’m still in Obama’s corner–he just needs to call on the people to help him.
Happy Thursday!
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By: vgman on August 20, 2009
at 3:01 PM
Because I know you all just can’t wait, but NFLShop.com is selling Philadephia Eagles jerseys for your dog with Vick’s # on it. You can personalize the jersey EXCEPT you can’t use “BadNewz” (name of Vicks’ kennel) or “killer”. . . Would love to see a bunch of dogs @ Eagles game all wearing jerseys w/ his #, all inscribed with “killer” on it. . .wishful snarky thinking. . .
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By: Greytdog on August 20, 2009
at 2:53 PM
Poolman, great post at 12:34 PM today. I agree with you.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 20, 2009
at 1:54 PM
Kathleen – I don’t necessarily disagree with you about election reform (although I think its the money more than the vote counting machines). And I definitely believe that the majority of Americans did vote for Obama, given the choices available. And any election reform we might get done wouldn’t change who we are dealing with in office right now. I’m just more of a short term thinker I guess. And its still no excuse for showing up to town halls calling the president a nazi and shouting over other people who are really trying to solve the problem. Not to mention going to a televised event without combing one’s hair.
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By: Stacey on August 20, 2009
at 1:39 PM
Hi poolman, I like Janet also, I think she will do a good job. I have faith in her that she would not allow politics to dictate her decisions as HS director. I really wish we would prosecute the Bush administration for what I see as acts of treason and the
lies they perpetrated on the American public. And in my mind Ridge is JUST as guilty for not saying anything WHILE it was happening instead of waiting to write it in a for profit book years later.
I agree with you that after we get healthcare, education, Afghanistan, economy, unemployment, sorted we should really take a long hard look at reform for campaigns. Because that is really where the problem with strong lobbyists lie. It’s been tried before with no real success but maybe now we have the will? I am all for it.
Remember, in 8 months we have stopped torture, gave Iraq back to it’s people. Took the fight to Al Quedia in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Shored up our crumbled economy and at least have it to the point where it is no longer dropping like a stone, and the market is beginning to rebound, we have reversed the stem cell ban, given 11 million more children healthcare, passed equal pay for equal work (Leddbetter), and now are taking on this monumental task providing healthcare for all Americans… NOT bad for 8 months eh?
What are you referring to when you mention the conspiracy theories?
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By: lori on August 20, 2009
at 1:33 PM
The President is on live right now…as if you all didn’t know already. Just thought I’d provide the link.
http://www.barackobama.com/forum/live.html
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By: give peas a chance on August 20, 2009
at 1:18 PM
Good lord, Judith! I’m glad you, the hubby, and dog are all OK. Sorry about the roof and the tree. Loss of pies, especially, is a terrible thing…but it beats the crap out of a lost life or limb.
We live a bit farther away (about 1 mi. south of that first touchdown), but close enough for a full-on freakout from both kids! No damage that we’ve found yet. Just lingering distrust of the clouds. The kids keep watching the sky warily and have been asking a million questions about every little noise.
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By: ΔTine on August 20, 2009
at 1:14 PM
Off topic, scroll on by if you need to.
ΔTine (and anybody else from MN) – any trouble yesterday? Did you get tornadoed?
We were 2 blocks from the first touchdown and lost a beloved pie cherry tree, so no cherry pies for a while. A little roof damage, but no biggie.
Funniest thing was my DH, who’s from Chicago (South Side). Apparently they don’t have tornados there, but he really thought that after so long living here, his instincts were pretty good.
So he hears a freight train in the back yard. (We’re nowhere near any railroad). Does he look out the window? Turn on the news? Head for the basement? No – he goes outside to see what it is. Happily, he stopped the terrier from going with him, or she’d be in Oz by now. I don’t know why he isn’t. Apparently the internal dialogue segued rather quickly from “What is that?” to “Holy Mother of God!”
And yes, they really do sound exactly like freight trains.
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By: judith on August 20, 2009
at 12:59 PM
Just saw a wonderful quote from Franklin D. Roosevelt:
“Knowledge-that is, education in its true sense-is our best protection against unreasoning prejudice and panic-making fear, whether engendered by special interest, illiberal minorities, or panic-stricken leaders.”
Seems like Americans need education in its true sense rather than the spins.
Thanks for enlightening us about NHS Marsha. I remember a Britain headline back in 2004 screaming “How can xxxx million people be so dumb?” after Bush won again. It seems we do appear rather dumb at times to other countries.
Kathleen, just curious, but what do/did you think of Bush & Co?
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 20, 2009
at 12:57 PM
Lori, that really doesn’t surprise me at all. The amount of liberties we lost during the past administration is abominable. The manipulation of the masses is atrocious. I don’t see any of that being reversed yet. I know Janet Napolitano and have met her before. I have much confidence in her, she was good for Arizona, but I don’t know how much control she actually has. I don’t even know how much control the president actually has either. And our representatives have shown their allegiances. I am starting to see that there are forces behind these people that really determine our destiny. I always poo-pooed the conspiracy theorists, but I now see much of what they profess may hold some validity. We need to take this country back, if we can. If it isn’t too late.
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By: Poolman on August 20, 2009
at 12:34 PM
Segundo Strongheart passed away this past Tuesday of a massive heart attack. He was 39.
Segundo was Ann Strongheart’s husband. Segundo and Ann have a daughter CC and a baby to be born in a few months.
Ann Strongheart was a major voice for the starving villages last winter. This M & H site was a major player in getting food to the starving Yupik Villages.
I am in shock but feel people on this site need to know of the passing of a YuPik Hero. He and Ann kept people from starving along with the good people from this site, The Mudflats and Anonymous Bloggers.
RIP Segundo Strongheart: You made the world a better place and will be missed.
http://anonymousbloggers.wordpress.com/
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 20, 2009
at 12:24 PM
Wow check out the newest whopper we were told during the Bush administration!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/tom-ridge-i-was-pressured_n_264127.html
I might have to go check this book out of the library when it comes out!
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By: lori on August 20, 2009
at 12:01 PM
Right on target as usual, Helen. Any one screaming “Hands off my health insurance” has obviously been paid to demonstrate by we-know-which lobby.
My health insurance comes with high premiums, a $2500 deductible, and only pays 70-80% of what the insurance company deems a reasonable amount. (Anyone know where you can actually get a full upper GI series for $98?)
In other words, having health insurance doesn’t mean being able to afford healthcare. I’d be in favor of government death squads if they’d eliminate the selfish and proudly ignorant low-lives standing in the way of real help for America’s problems. Maybe it’s time voting became a privilege – of the intelligent and compassionate.
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By: Lynn M on August 20, 2009
at 12:00 PM
Stacey,
I think we need to continue to hold their feet to the proverbial fire! We cannot just “trust” them to do what they promised. Maybe, just maybe, those Americans attending the townhall meetings are right. We should not be so quick to accept the media’s definition of our fellow citizens because so far, they have proven to be biased in their reporting on the obama administration.
I have been involved in election reform for the past 5-1/2 years and have decided the only way we can get our country back is to return to hand counting our votes and get rid of the machines.
I founded a website explaining why I’ve come to this conclusion HCPBnow.org. Remember, we can’t vote them out, if we didn’t vote them in and I believe this is why our government is willing to lie so blatantly.
Take back our elections!
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 20, 2009
at 11:49 AM
Kathleen – I think you’ll find it DOES bother a lot of people on the left – it bothers me that he is not more transparent. The question is what do we do about it? We can certainly make our displeasure known, but I don’t think comparing him to a Nazi is incredibly useful – nor is torpedoing the whole insurance reform bill.
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By: Stacey on August 20, 2009
at 11:42 AM
I agree with Matt Taibbi. Don’t like big pharma prices? Let’s get our needed drugs from Canada then. When enough ppl do that, big Pharma will have to start negotiating in good faith. It’s called leveling the playing field. Right now those $4 ‘scripts from Walmart come from India. So if Wally World can do it, so can the private consumer. My wundermom goes up to Canada three times a year to get Adequan shots for her RA. Adequan not FDA approved for RA in the US, but approved in Europe & Canada. It’s about the only med that keeps her relatively mobile and inflammation-free at this point. Plus she gets to visit friends and go to lectures at McGill University. 🙂 There’s always a benefit to everything, eh?
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By: Greytdog on August 20, 2009
at 11:41 AM
I must admit I’m less enamored of Barak at this point than when I voted for him. Not that I think McCain would have been a better choice, but I think Hillary would’ve strapped on a pair and got ‘er done by now. I didn’t vote for Hilary because I was afraid the right would go after her so hard that nothing wouldn’t get done. Turns out they feel the same about Barak.
I hope he gets stronger, but we did vote in a concensus builder, and that’s what we got.
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By: Stacey on August 20, 2009
at 11:38 AM
Delurker Girl,
Did you read the article and listen to the interview? Obama selling out to big pharma is much more serious than doing things “you don’t like”. This kind of betrayal will hurt you and all Americans for decades to come.
What happened to his promise to negotiate with these pharmaceutical companies on C-Span? What happened to a greater transparency in how they govern than any other administration before them? What happened to no secret meetings with lobbyist?
Here’s yet another video clip from “The Young Turks”, also big obama supporters, who are sounding very disillusioned with his not living up to major campaign promises:
If this doesn’t bother you, then what will?
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 20, 2009
at 11:37 AM
Barack Obama will do many things I don’t like, Kathleen! That’s politics. So far I’m still satisifed he’s working on the right things and I wouldn’t change my vote at this point.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 20, 2009
at 10:59 AM
Hi everyone, just a quick request. If you are so inclined, please go here http://tinyurl.com/l7qj3n to leave any message of support/condolences for Ann Strongheart & her family. Because of the suddenness of Segundo’s death (& making arrangements for his funeral) coupled with Ann’s pregnancy + onset of the AK winter, she is not following this blog or Mudflats. But the family is remaining in touch with Anonymous Bloggers. Your outreach at this time would mean a lot to Ann & the family. Thanks. Ann is a woman of great depth & strength, but really needs our emotional support & outreach.
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By: Greytdog on August 20, 2009
at 10:53 AM
Thanks for the link Kathleen. No, I won’t shoot the messenger. Yes we need to keep our eyes open. Big Pharma is not on the side of the people and needs serious controlling. I would like to hold the president to the promises he made during the campaign. One of the biggest is to repeal the Patriot Act. It seems he has gone the other direction on this one and it has been the greatest thing passed to erode our rights as Americans. I pray we will see the true change we, all that supported Barack, voted for.
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By: Poolman on August 20, 2009
at 10:42 AM
Hold on to your hats, Ladies!
🙂
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By: A. Maxwell on August 20, 2009
at 10:28 AM
Seems like everyone on this blog love Barack Obama. That’s your right. However, not all of us are as enthralled with him and for good reason.
Following are two links, one from the Huffington Post (which is a pro-Obama blog) and a video clip from the NoQuarter website entitled “Barack A Liar?” (a statement made by investigative reporter Greg Palast), which features an audio taped interview between Greg Palast (was a big Obama supporter) and Air America (stil an Obama supporter) where Palast discusses Obama’s “secret deal” with PhRMA, which he swore all through the election that he would not do.
I hope you will take the time to read the article and listen to the radio interview and then decide whether you really know who obama truly is.
I would, however, respectfuly request that you refrain from attacking the messenger, but rather check out the facts presented in these two pieces for yourselves:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 20, 2009
at 10:14 AM
Hi Raji
rather busy in the moment, have approx 50-60.000 words of marketing material to translate….boring and tedious…….
C U
Werner
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By: Werner Oderwer Δ on August 20, 2009
at 8:34 AM
Marsha, thank you so much for your comment!
Fox News would invalidate your whole experience by digging up one example of a woman who died in labor on the sidewalk because the ambulance wouldn’t come, therefore your whole medical system is awful. After all, something like that would NEVER happen here!
It must be true because Sean the manitee said so on the squawk radio.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 20, 2009
at 8:27 AM
Kudos, Barney Frank! I know that those who hate him (for whatever “reason”) will only triple their efforts at him personally and on the option for people to join a public health care plan.
Its about time Congressional types spat back! I think all Reps and Sens should understand from the get go that they own their Town Hall meetings and can make the rules and enforce them. After all, it was John Doe who rented the hall for the event. I like things like sign-in sheets and proof of living in the state or district to be shown. I also very much like honor/color guards and official bands that play the National Anthem. I also maintain that when things get out of hand or even look like it, turn out the damn lights!
It is about time that this country learn that a lot of the Town Hall meetings were well done and positive but all we get is film footage of people hallucinating in public over something that they don’t understand. They need their meds adjusted!
Really! I mean it!
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on August 20, 2009
at 8:26 AM
Hi there, Helen 🙂
I’m across the pond here in Britain, where people have been..stunned at how the National Health Service has been dragged into, and demonised in the US debate on healthcare reform.
12% of people here have private insurance, and can use that AND the NHS if they want. Our equivalent of the Republicans have had to reluctantly accept the NHS, because-despite its faults- the public are committed to it.
I dont advocate the US trying to have the same system, simply because a)your hospitals, clinics etc are privately owned (most of ours arent) and
b)your doctors are not-both individually and via their professional body- committed to working in a government funded system.
c) It is bureaucratic
Also, there can be queuing for non-urgent operations, etc and I cant see Americans tolerating that. The French system -currently the best in the world- might suit the US better, or the Swiss or Dutch ones.
Our doctors were ‘bribed’ at the inception of the NHS, to have the option to do public and private practice simultaneously should they so wish.
I have never had to think about the financial implications of an operation, x-ray, investigative proceedure,hospital stay etc. Pre-existing conditions are irrelevant.
Employers pay a flat rate contribution to the NHS (ditto employees) as part of our taxation system, so healthcover is not a consideration with accepting/moving on from most jobs.
I love your comments, and thoughtful approach.
I understand some of the same attacks were made here 60 years ago, when the NHS was being set up. Its sad to see how those with vested interests can play on the fears of people who might benefit. Private insurance companies here would LOVE to expand to covering 25% – 40% of the population here,so they push -via certain Conservative politicians and bodies- for changes.
Interestingly, the leader of the Conservative Party here has come out as a fervent advocate of the NHS, even though he is wealthy. He had a much loved, severely disabled little boy who had a team of NHS medical people looking after him for years, ensuring the best quality of life possible. As a result, his father had constant contact with the system and those in it, and has been converted to a supporter…
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By: Marsha Prescod on August 20, 2009
at 4:21 AM
This is so great on so many levels. If I were Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert, I’d be begging you to be on my show – could we get you on on those little scooter things like in your pic? In fact I’m writing them next, like that’ll help. But pls keep up the good work!
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By: c. on August 20, 2009
at 4:14 AM
Go Barney Frank…SOMEONE needs to call an asshat an asshat!
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By: Sherri Δ on August 20, 2009
at 3:02 AM
Yep, its obvious Tammy didn’t read anything you wrote….LOL…oh, sorry for the giggle…its really very sad she can be so outraged at misinformation…on HER part…
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By: amethystlady2 on August 20, 2009
at 12:40 AM
I hope you don’t mind I’ve linked you on my blog. You’re brilliant!
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By: elecpencil on August 20, 2009
at 12:16 AM
Maybe after we march in Washington, we should march around the 24-7 cable news organizations with signs saying, more news and less opinion. An informed citizenry being necessary to a Democracy, give us news and let us form our own opinions, and then they can report our opinions, instead of theirs.
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By: Anonymous on August 19, 2009
at 11:59 PM
oh, rats! The damn computer did it again! I swear, I am computer literate!
as I was saying: a bad gov’t program probably won’t be any worse than the badly run commercial programs put up by the insurance/medical/pharma compainies.
Good nite. I will continue to read but cease to inflict my computer problems on you, at least until I get a new OS
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By: The Swiss Ms on August 19, 2009
at 9:57 PM
“How many millions are being spent each day to sway our minds? ”
Can you imagine how much that means they stand to profit? It’s just an investment. Just think about the good that could be done with that money.
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By: Susan in CT on August 19, 2009
at 7:56 PM
Capitalism in our healthcare industry kills more on our own native soil than any other foreign threat. And we haven’t even counted the wounded.
Take it from a former waiter, those who are serving our health care should at minimum not receive a tip. Unfortunately many that are hired to serve have actually sat down at the table and are really running up quite a tab at our expense. Now they are even paying for the entertainment.
How many millions are being spent each day to sway our minds? God forgive us, this doesn’t help your cause.
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By: Poolman on August 19, 2009
at 7:31 PM
From Poolman’s link to Hari’s piece:
“18,000 US citizens die every year needlessly, because they can’t access the care they require. That’s equivalent to six 9/11s, every year, year on year.”
And yet because WE’RE allowing that to happen, rather than it being caused by a shadowy enemy, it’s all right?
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By: Susan in CT on August 19, 2009
at 6:50 PM
Your blog is outstanding. You can count me as one of your MANY loyal readers from now on. Best wishes to you both!
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By: Alexander Stanton on August 19, 2009
at 6:44 PM
this whole episode has been orchestrated by the conservate right-wing/neocons to obscure the real issue.
Compounding the issue is the fact that the “news media” is now merely a part of a conglomorate and isn’t independent. So, the news is biased against the issue.
Thank you for hitting so many nails on the head. I truly enjoyed your blog.
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By: Glenn Moss on August 19, 2009
at 5:33 PM
How sad to hear of Ann’s husband’s passing. My thoughts and prayes go out to her and her family.
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By: sunshine on August 19, 2009
at 5:12 PM
Greytdog, thank you for informing us and posting the link to give support. What a sad day for Ann and her children. My heart reaches out to her but cannot imagine the pain she is feeling. My condolences.
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By: Raji on August 19, 2009
at 4:20 PM
Hey Werner, been wondering were you were. We missed you during the recent tirades 🙂
Whirled Peas and Poolman, thanks for the laugh!
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By: Raji on August 19, 2009
at 4:11 PM
I thought you all should know – Ann Strongheart’s husband died from a heart attack. Here’s the post on it:
In forever loving memory of my love Segundo Strongheart 11-27-1970 to 8-18-2009 – http://tinyurl.com/l7qj3n
God almighty my heart is broken.
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By: Greytdog on August 19, 2009
at 4:05 PM
Wow, this is my first time here, and I think I’m in love.
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By: LiteralDan on August 19, 2009
at 3:47 PM
For the gang, was and will be busy with a big translation project, so only occasional posts for a while, to the rest: don’t rejoyce too early!!!
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By: Werner Oderwer Δ on August 19, 2009
at 2:50 PM
Hi Girlz, just snapped in for a quick look, great post as usual!!!
Her one for health care fron the off-side:
AMERICANS WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE ATTACK PLAN TO GIVE THEM HEALTH INSURANCE
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/americans-without-health-insurance-attack-plan-to-give-them-health-insurance-200908141981/
isn’t fitting?
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By: Werner Oderwer Δ on August 19, 2009
at 2:48 PM
No problem, OceanGypsi.
P.S. What a handsome fella! (I saw his pic on your blog.) 🙂
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By: ΔTine on August 19, 2009
at 2:40 PM
Thank you, ΔTine. ~hug~
I think in this case, “educated conservative” is an oxymoron…….
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By: OceanGypsi on August 19, 2009
at 2:14 PM
Thought you’d all enjoy this:
Congress Deadlocked Over How Not To Provide Health Care
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/congress_deadlocked_over_how_to
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By: ΔTine on August 19, 2009
at 12:33 PM
Peas, I wonder how Hannity will spin that one as he revs up yet another Joe the Dumber.
This week’s “how dare the liberal machine attack a stay at home mother” for saying something idiotic was really something else!
Go Barney!
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 19, 2009
at 12:15 PM
Poolman – that was priceless.
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By: Stacey on August 19, 2009
at 11:52 AM
You two ladies are WONDERFUL!!!!!!!
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By: Hannah from Maine! on August 19, 2009
at 11:43 AM
Priceless!
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By: Jane R. on August 19, 2009
at 11:27 AM
When you ask a stupid question, don’t be surprised if you’re treated like a piece of furniture.
Barney Frank vs. a teabagger:
“Why do you continue to support a Nazi policy as Obama has expressly supported this policy? Why are you supporting it?”
“[…] On what planet do you spend most of your time? … You want me to answer the question? Yes. You stand there with a picture of the President defaced to look like Hitler and compare the effort to increase health care to the Nazis. My answer to you is, as I said before, it is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated. Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it.”
He should have finished with: “You really should stop listening to Beck and Limbaugh.”
At least she had a chance to show her gullibility to the wingnut fear-mongers. And now to the whole country knows.
Ahhhhh…Freedom! I luv America. 😉
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 19, 2009
at 11:19 AM
How hypocritical is it to criticizing patting ourselves on the back AND choose the name “post-grad educated conservative”? Made my day, LOL. 😀
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 19, 2009
at 11:12 AM
A view from abroad…
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-republicans-religion-and-the-triumph-of-unreason-1773994.html
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By: Poolman on August 19, 2009
at 11:12 AM
Sausage making and law making, both nasty processes, it has been said, should never be watched. Well we’ve watched this health bill very closely, even though we know the final bill will be quite different from the “outine” we see now, It has been a scarey process for all of us. See you in D. C., wear comfortable shoes.
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By: Anonymous on August 19, 2009
at 11:05 AM
There are some people that have to leave their mark just to say “I’ve been here”. I just hope that person doesn’t visit our national parks and wilderness areas. Plenty have and it always irks me when I see their traces.
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By: Poolman on August 19, 2009
at 10:49 AM
Sometimes drive by comments are best…
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By: Jane R. on August 19, 2009
at 10:43 AM
Well THAT was swell “how do you do”?
🙂
(At least nothing was broken…)
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By: Shirley Kramer on August 19, 2009
at 10:21 AM
You pair are a bunch of squirrely old bags. I guess anyone who disagrees with you is just stupid or illiterate, huh? I’ll just let you keep patting yourselves on the back while I never come to your site again.
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By: post-grad educated conservative on August 19, 2009
at 10:12 AM
Oceangypsi, your nephew and all his comrades — and the innocent Afghanis trying to vote — have my prayers.
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By: ΔTine on August 19, 2009
at 9:45 AM
Kitkat here is an article.. There are more…..http://www.nfmpolitico.com/khou/2009/08/18/reich-calls-for-march-on-washington/
I’ll keep you posted on any more specific info I receive on the particulars..
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By: lori on August 19, 2009
at 8:47 AM
Absolutely Judith, and might I add..
Opinions are opinions and can and should be debated… FACTS can not be debated…
fact check: Nancy Pelosi did not write the bill/s that are waiting in the house committees.
FACT….. MOST of the bill/s were written by conservative to moderate dems, AND republicans (including the so called “death clause”)… Nancy has not and did not craft a single sentence in the existing “bills”. These are NOT Pelsoi authored bills, they have come from house Pelosi is the speaker! committees..http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/?&Db=d111&querybd=@FIELD(FLD004+@4((@1(Rep+Pelosi++Nancy))+00905)) http://speaker.gov/issues?id=0004
Fact… The time to defeat Obama has come and gone.. YOU lost.. Now is time to TRY and get on board and get whatever compromise you can get and be be focused on “beating Obama”……. that dog just don’t hunt.
FACT: Obama and his followers ALLOWED the LEGISLATORS to craft the BILLS (notice not one but 3) in committee…. and then ALLOWED the TIME for everyone to weigh in on the important piece of legislation by NOT forcing a bill to the floor in a hurried fashion!
FACT: EVERY DEMOCRAT in the house has READ the bill!
FACT: when it comes to fighting for the poor and minorities and basic human rights, education, environment and against un-just wars….. Liberawals can be a bit vocal….. you got me there…
PS can my T shirt have a V neck ????? My pie neck needs all the help it can get..;-)
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By: lori on August 19, 2009
at 8:38 AM
So, is there anything definite re: march on Washington in Sept? I could like to join in with a M&H delegation if there is one.
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By: kitkat on August 19, 2009
at 8:17 AM
Put me down for a t-shirt!
Love you ladies! 🙂
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By: Shirley Kramer on August 19, 2009
at 8:06 AM
It’s not the shouting, it’s the shouting down other people. There’s a difference.
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By: judith on August 19, 2009
at 7:37 AM
I haven’t popped on for a few days. But, the election in Afghanistan begins in a few hours. To whatever Diety you subscribe, please remember OUR soldiers. They are in harm’s way to secure freedoms for others. My nephew is one of them.
On a different note, where were they (the proverbial they) this past November when Palin was winkin’ and “betcha’in”? Sorry. I’m just a little frayed this morning.
Happy Wednesday to all! Godspeed to our soldiers!
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By: OceanGypsi on August 19, 2009
at 7:17 AM
I want a t-shirt with the photo of Margaret & Helen on the scooters…”I ride with M&H”
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By: Tanya on August 19, 2009
at 7:10 AM
LOVE the t-shirt idea!!!
🙂
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By: Mary on August 19, 2009
at 6:47 AM
I agree with most of what Dave G wrote, but when I disagree with Helen, I won’t directly say so. I feel that if I post here, it is equivalent to visiting her home.
I support some of Obama’s policies, and oppose others. Trying to defeat him when he is “wrong” is not the same as not “giving him a chance” for four years. The health insurance issue is a good example. For one thing, the leading House bill is more Nancy Pelosi’s than Obama’s, and I believe it would be harmful to our country. Others disagree. We, not the politicians are supposed to run the country, and it is our duty to debate specific issues and make our wishes known. If it means shouting at town hall meetings to get our representatives’ attention, so be it, though I would never shout.
For some politicians, it is the only way to get them to notice. Obama and his supporters assumed Democrats could pass it onto the floor before people knew what was in the bill. From what I have seen, the conservative’s at their worst are much milder than liberal protesters which were more hostile during the Bush years and especially in the Vietnam era. Now, we have the president’s and Congress’ attention.
Omaha is nearly broke, and its town hall meetings are suddenly as popular as the national variety. One will even be televised as it happens. A senator and representative have and will hold radio town hall meetings. I hope this national debate has started a trend toward paying attention to what our employees are doing.
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By: James on August 19, 2009
at 6:47 AM
We need a t-shirt that says “I share pie on M&H”
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By: Greytdog on August 19, 2009
at 6:43 AM
James: I totally missed the fact that you’d written that stuff for a newspaper in 2007. Sorry…was reading late (for me) at night.
Glad we can agree about ethanol. It has its (limited) place. It will be better when ethanol production moves away from corn, sugarcane, and other food crops. Even better when wind replaces some of it.
But wind, too (once again we agree), has only a partial role in our energy future. We need to develop *all* the alternatives (photovoltaic, solar thermal, geothermal, geoexchange, micro-hydropower, hydrogen fuel cells, and more) to make this thing work.
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By: Δ Tine on August 19, 2009
at 6:31 AM
A Tine,
I agree with you about ethanol. I was describing more than supporting a condition–our governor’s boosterism. I wrote the story in 2007 as another period of exuberance threatened to capture our farm economy. Ethanol was taking off as a possible replacement for oil, as grain prices soared to unimagionable levels.
New ethanol plants were springing up like weeds. Farmers were investing in new plants, and I saw the beginnings of an attitude similar to what happened after the Russian wheat deal. Rising oil prices and a prospering world economy created such demand for our crops, some economists feared there wasn’t enough grain to go around.
Our area is well suited to wind farms, and more are being built, but like ethanol, which will more efficiently be made from switch grass some day, they will only be alternatives in the short term.
The newspaper lets me write about anything as long as I don’t create controversy. That story was my way of predicting the 2008 economic meltdown and warning people to be careful.
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By: James on August 19, 2009
at 6:12 AM
EXACTLY delurker!
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By: lori on August 19, 2009
at 5:53 AM
Susan, right back at you re: your 2:29am post.
I think what Azarches may mean he did wrong is he chose not to have health insurnace, and now has to sell the boat. While it was his choice not to pay for insurance, others don’t have the option or money to pay.
The thing is, while he’s negotiating with the health care people who helped, which is honorable, there are likely write offs involved. Everyone else is paying for that indirectly.
I haven’t seen this come up here. I don’t know if this is true everywhere, but where I am there are doctors who will not take patients without insurance, even if they can scrape together the cash to pay for an appointment. Those people go without care, or go to the ER if they have to. Or the original problem escalates to a more expensive or permanent condition.
We’re paying a lot right now for non-universal care.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 19, 2009
at 5:35 AM
Peas that 12:07 link tickled me! Dems never take the easy path of least resistance do we?
greytdog, I was beginning to wonder myself… wheeewwww. There is an online “meeting” with the President on Thursday, I am sure you (M&H fans) got the e-mail, you can send the president a question. I asked him what took him sooooo long to get the message straight? LOL Think he will answer?
I’d be interested to hear what other posters in here asked him. Anyone care to share?
I still have a school aged daughter who will be in school when they go back to Washington, but if my husband is in town to tend to her I might be able to attend the march too! We could have a M&H delegation! Everyone could recognize eachother by the pie crumbs on their face. 😉 namaste’
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By: lori on August 19, 2009
at 4:43 AM
Azarches sez: “Thank you to those who expressed well wishes for my son, he is recovering great. The therapists are impressed with his progress. Sorry i have been away and not able to follow-up here.
“I guess the point I was trying to understand was, your health is in most cases related to the decisions in your life. Genetics, diet, activities, and environment are the major factors in everyone’s health. 3 of these are “user controlled”, one is controlled by God (or your parents if you will). ”
So what did you do wrong that your son is at risk? What did I do wrong to be hit head-on by a drunk driving on the wrong side of the highway? What did my non-smoking Pilates-exercizing careful-eating friend do wrong that caused her to have a double mastectomy? What did a friend’s daughter do wrong that caused her to be born with a leg that didn’t grow, thus requiring many surgeries and a prosthesis?
No one could have predicted or prevented these situations. And they’re not so rare that they can be discounted as anomalies. I don’t say don’t be responsible — but even if one does follow all your suggestions, Stuff Happens. And not only to irresponsible, junk-food-eating, sluggish individuals. That breast cancer? There are those who say it’s environmentally-caused. How do we escape that?
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By: Susan in CT on August 19, 2009
at 2:29 AM
Delurker Girl, your August 18, 2009, 12:20 PM post is excellent. Or at least it’s well-said and I agree with it, and that equals excellent to me!
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By: Susan in CT on August 19, 2009
at 2:14 AM
I’ve been pretty quiet when it comes to UAW over the past few months. I tried to keep an open mind. What disturbs me the most is that people here really did try to reach out to him only to have their hands slapped each and every time. I feel bad about his wife too, but he is an adult and needs to take ownership for his nasty behavior and not use her as his excuse whenever he goes too far. IMHO we need to just treat him like the troll he is from now on. No more of these type threads where out of 400+ comments half are either drunken rants or links with no original thoughts contributed, all from one disturbed individual. He brings out the worst in others and does not add anything of value here. Sorry, I tried to hang in there with him, but he made it impossible. I think this blog deserves to have the discourse elevated up a notch.
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By: Imaginista on August 19, 2009
at 12:47 AM
Dave G,
Your comments made me think (which is always good). So I re-read Helen’s post again, which again made me chuckle.
Truth to tell, if you can’t have a good chortle at the way Helen lays it out and mixes in the wisdom of her years with the sharpness of her wit and the right to call a spade a spade (oh my, politically incorrect?) or an idiot an idiot, then you need to either let your hair down with the Woodstock link from Whirled Peas or pass on by.
The thing is, Helen is up front with who and what she believes in. Just like Molly Ivins, Jon Stewart, and George Carlin. And their words were/are both bittersweet and funny at the same time.
You are afraid Obama is going the route of socialism. I am afraid of people who won’t give him a chance for at least a 4 year term, and instead listen exclusively to the Rush Limbaughs and Fox News spinners.
Perhaps you see a different picture than I do of the ranting town hall people. The ones who liken Obama to Hitler, and are demanding their country back. I think they are being unreasonable – that is behavior that does not have the facts, or the willingness to learn facts.
Yup, we have stupid people on both sides, although it just seems like the radically opposed to Obama people are more stupid if they carve backward B’s on their face and make up lies about being attacked for supporting McCain.
I myself do not long for the days of old when we had to wear nylon stockings and covered shoes more times than not. But I do agree with Helen that those people at the town hall meetings looked like they could use some good grooming and better manners.
And she just might be a wee bit right in thinking that some of them are very upset at a black man in the Presidency. It could be they would much rather have had the beautiful and well groomed Sarah Palin to wink at them.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 19, 2009
at 12:39 AM
What if Democrats behaved
more like Republicans???
😉 ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 19, 2009
at 12:07 AM
You are a gift in my day, Helen. Wise, witty, and compassionate.
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By: Caitlin Victoria Featherstone on August 18, 2009
at 11:29 PM
Whirled Peas, & everyone – just came in from walkies with the muttcrew -and I cannot tell you the excitement that is dancing in our house right now – YES WE CAN! I’ve been very bummed the last few days, watching the town halls, listening to my reps squeal and squeak about govt interference – while trying to cram enough work hours to 1) pay for my knee op, 2) make sure my assistants would get their weekly paychecks, and I really was feeling like the Democratic party was totally caving in. I am now so re-energized that I actually danced with the dogs – which I am nowpaying for by having to ice my knee. But oh I plan on heading to DC for the March for HEalth Care Reform in September.
And Whirled – thanks for the CNN video too!
“night all!
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By: Greytdog on August 18, 2009
at 10:22 PM
CNN VIDEO
You go BO ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 18, 2009
at 10:17 PM
This could get interesting:
Democrats Seem Set to
Go Alone on a Health Bill
About damn time!
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 18, 2009
at 10:00 PM
James, you said, “according to our governor, the Heartland will become the Saudi Arabia of alternative energy.”
I sincerely hope not, even though I’m in the #1 ethanol-producing state and count many farmers among my family and friends. (Hopefully I’ve got that statistic right; it may have changed recently and *you’re* in the #1 state.)
Anyway….ethanol is indeed an “alternative,” but I don’t think it’s a particularly good one. I doubt any serious student of energy science considers corn ethanol a bona fide green (clean, carbon-neutral, renewable, locally produced) energy source. When folks began pushing ethanol, they didn’t consider land-use issues, industrial ag and processing byproducts, or the collateral damage of food shortages and skyrocketing food prices.
In my educated (but admittedly amateur) opinion, ethanol is decidedly *not* the answer to our many energy problems.
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By: Δ Tine on August 18, 2009
at 9:22 PM
This has been an interesting thread to say the least, quite baffling at times. The rude and ungrateful behaviors are just so unbecoming! It is simple! Nobody that hates Helen’s politics is forced to come here and read her blog! It is a choice, this is still a free country.
You know it Helen, most people who come here appreciate you. I just would like to say that the majority of us appreciate your efforts and the time you put into trying to educate and entertain us. What you have accomplished here is huge. You are probably amused by it all, positive or negative, or so I hope. Thanks for all the laughter especially, I mean it.
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By: Easier on August 18, 2009
at 8:14 PM
I love you Helen, but this is not your best post. Where are you laugh out loud one-liners?
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By: Jeannie on August 18, 2009
at 7:45 PM
Sorry, but much of this commentary misses the mark. Sure, there are ignorant people making noise, but there are extremists, and there is ignorance on both sides of the political fence. Many of us, including myself, who are by and large Libertarians, think it is wonderful that a black man can reach the presidency. To call someone racist because they strongly disagree with the President is foolish. It is too easy. It is a copout. If I could, I would eliminate bigotry (that’s the real word, not racism) and intollerance, and everyone would be judged on their own merit. However, I think the course President Obama is taking us on is the wrong one, very wrong. It is a socialist agenda, and I don’t say that because it is the “trendy” word of the week. When government owns programs, that is socialism. People are “angry” because they are scared, and they should be.
“Death Panels”…well, yes, that’s a stretch, but rationing, quality healthcare declining while the deficit soars, yes, that is very likely. Yes, we need reform, but don’t knock the house down because the roof has a leak. Eliminate stupid law suits and get the insurance companies in line. Don’t let them get away with many of their shanagigans…I agree, but keep it private.
Liberals can be very condescendening and elitist. Trust me, there are extremely intelligent conservatives, and some very stupid liberals, and vice versa. I can’t tell you how many interviews I watched of teens and 20-somethings voting for Obama that couldn’t tell you who the Vice President was, the speaker of the house, their congressman or senators, etc. Morons. As a non-Republican, I actually find them to be better schooled in the issues. The media is always going to zoom in on the ring wing radicals and idiots, and they are out there!
Hard work, personal responsibility, private enterprise and free markets, and charitable giving determined by the giver and not the government, that’s what has always made America great. Yes, we need a safety net, that’s reality, but don’t pull down the rest of Americans to do it.
The treatment of black people in this country, in the past, was truly abominable, and you will never, unfortunately, erase bigotry. But don’t muddy the water and lower the bar by equating disagreement with a black president’s policy with racism. It’s totally irrelevent to the most.
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By: Dave G on August 18, 2009
at 7:41 PM
Helen, You are awesome! LOVED your blog post dated 8/12/09! Amen Sister…you have got it nailed down better than anyone has bothered to explain it. I hope you don’t mind if I post a twitter link to your page. 🙂
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By: Vicky on August 18, 2009
at 7:09 PM
It all started when UAW said Helen was full of sh*t and called her an asshat….aug. 15th 6:45….it was down hill from there.
Helen deserves better….
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By: Stacy on August 18, 2009
at 4:18 PM
Lori,
I think we were lucky to grow up rural.
Thanks Anonymous.
I missed the fight, and to change the subject, here is a story I wrote for our county newspaper in 2007.
Life is good these days. It has been raining, and crops look good. Better demand for alternative fuels brings profitable grain prices, and according to our governor, the Heartland will become the Saudi Arabia of alternative energy. Maybe this time the good times will stay longer than once before. People of a certain age remember well another time of exuberance.
Crops were fine in 1972, but farmers lost money as millions of bushels dragged prices into the cellar. The fall was wet and then snowy. Harvesting was difficult and slow as it dragged on through the winter.
The Soviet Union was in a bind after poor crop threatened their food supply. Later that spring, they bought wheat and other grain from the United States in such quantities, shortages developed. Prices soared. By the summer of 1973, beans sold for an incredible $12.00 per bushel A few farmers lucky to have unsold beans bought farms and new machinery from the proceeds. Prices fell a bit, but the next year’s drought brought grain prices higher again. it was a new world.
Bad crop years in parts of the corn belt including Iowa and Nebraska combined with percieved shortages to maintain fairly high grain prices. Inflation added to the effect. Farmers scrambled to enlarge their holdings to counterbalance the added expense of the dollar’s falling value. Banks competed to be the first to loan money to “young tigers” who prowled the countryside in search of new farms and machinery. Like advocates of the nineties computer boom, economists claimed agriculture was in a new condition where the old rules were rendered obsolete. They were wrong of course, and and it all came crashing down. The eighties’ “morning in America” became a nightmare of crosses on courthouse lawns, suicides, and Farm Aid.
Farms , then businesses and banks that supported them went under, and virtually everything sold for a song. We needed a combine, but we couldn’t afford a new one, so I searched sale bills. Northeast Nebraska was especially hard hit with machinery selling very cheaply. I found a likely candidate eighty miles from home, and called to inquire about a decade old IH 715 German diesel combine.
An efervesant woman answered, and she shared details about the combine. We chatted nearly an hour about the weather , bad prices, and our children. It had been hard, she said. Her husband was 32, and he had done nothing but farm. Too many bank loans and a drought were more than their business could bear. I knew what she meant. We were on the edge too. It was hard.
She hoped I could come to the sale and visit some more. “Look for me. I’ll be the blond lady standing by the cottonwood tree.” “What are you going to do?” I asked. “We are going to Arizona.” They had heard jobs were available, but the family was still processing the death of their farm, and had no real plan. “Do you think the jobs are there? Are we doing the right thing?” “Probably. I think I read something about employment in Arizona.” She started to cry. ” Oh, I hope so. I’m so afraid…” I skipped their sale. I didn’t have the heart.
Certainly, it will be different this time. People do learn, don’t they?
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By: James on August 18, 2009
at 4:05 PM
The boll weevils were the southern democrats that supported the Reagan tax cuts in the 80’s. They were not segregationists however.
The dixiecrats were southern dems who SPLIT with the party mid century after the new deal. They were segregationists (states rights) and socially conservative…. and were determined to keep the old south… and of course to protect it from the big bad government. They eventually became republicans. Remember when Trent Lott got into hot water at Thurmans birthday party?
Blue dogs are not necessarily southern, and in most aren’t. They are not the old “state rights party” aka segregationists, their only battle cry (so to speak) is they are meant to be fiscally conservative.
I know that is probably only important to a demmie wonk like me! But I don’t want people to get the impression the blue dogs are the “state’s rights” idiots of days gone by. Thankfully we found the error of our ways, the Repubs have yet to do so and welcomed them with open arms.. I get ocd over things like that..!! 😉
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By: lori on August 18, 2009
at 2:50 PM
UAW tries my patience sometimes. But then again, I try other people’s patience. So it kinda all evens out. I didn’t even bother to look at the videos. UAW was on some angry tear and so I just treated as such. I think something else is going on there – he’s a cantankerous cuss, yes, but that’s the first time he’s really gotten pretty vile. Anyway, while I’m glad the comment thread has calmed down, still hope that UAW & his wife are okay. That’s a lot of heavy emotional weight to carry.
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By: Greytdog on August 18, 2009
at 2:41 PM
UAW had posted a few videos that offended a few people. It appears the videos were removed. No sign of UAW today.
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By: Stacy on August 18, 2009
at 2:21 PM
Are you the anonymous that is so much better than Theresa that you righteoulsy attacked her too? Good on ya.
A agree that her comments were particularly rude and uncalled for, though I can empathize with her frustration level. I don’t think her comments justified the vile response they got – does he actually eat with that mouth?
Some of what you refer to, she actually said after UAW vaulted us into the gutter, by the way.
Anyway, I was just curious as to what I didn’t see because what I do see disgusts me. I stay for the civil discourse, but some days it’s particularly hard to be patient with all the scrollworthy stuff. I’m eager for the next thread to start.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 18, 2009
at 2:03 PM
Theresa wished death on UAW, told him she hated him, called him a racist, and said he had a small penis.
What exactly did UAW say to Theresa? That she “spit also.”
This is really getting bad.
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By: Anonymous on August 18, 2009
at 1:49 PM
What did Matthew clean up? Did it actually get worse after UAW’s vile attack on Theresa? (still up there)
I suppose he can take some pride in knowing he won the “I can stoop lower than you” contest. Bravo!
At least now I can let myself off the hook for trying to understand where he’s coming from. I no longer care.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 18, 2009
at 1:23 PM
Thanks Matthew for cleaning up the “UAW” spill from yesterday!!!
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By: Mary on August 18, 2009
at 12:49 PM
C’mon, Anonymi. (Anonymouses?) Would it be so hard to make up a name for use here? If you want to participate, why can’t you identify yourself somehow?
It’s impossible to follow the discussion / figure out who’s trying to make what point / respond to the right commenter when multiple people are going by “Anonymous.”
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By: ΔTine on August 18, 2009
at 12:45 PM
During the Reagan years, Southern Dems did become Republicans. Why the Dems would want them back is beyond me. Blue Dog Dems are the same old Dixiecrats only in contemporary clothing. As for Bob Byrd being in the KKK, so what? He’s not active and he’s certainly not for discrimination. You want to point fingers? Point them at Glenn Beck & Pat Buchanan – those two are racists, with or without the white sheets to cover their faces.
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By: Greytdog on August 18, 2009
at 12:33 PM
“Sorry, but today’s GOP isn’t the party of Lincoln, he wouldn’t recognize it, and he sure wouldn’t join it.”
This is strictly an opinion. Impossible to substantiate. What with Lincoln being dead and all.
An unshackled (as it were) look at racism in the South is eye-opening to any Democrat. It certainly was to me.
Study up first. Then decide if you can defend the indefensible.
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By: Anonymous on August 18, 2009
at 12:28 PM
Helen, where have you been all my life! Well said.
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By: Carmen on August 18, 2009
at 12:28 PM
Why is it that paying (hiring) the government to provide health insurance is wanting “the government to take care of them”, but paying (hiring) the government to create & maintain roads, transport mail, supply military, police & fire protection is not??? Really I don’t understand it at all.
Is it that the current system of punishing people for being
a) unable to afford extortion insurance rates
b) too sick to be insurable
c) unable to legally marry
somehow keeps those ‘inferiors’ in their places?
And why is it that people assume that the unemployed are lazy unmotivated slackers freeloading off “the system”? In some areas of the country, unemployment is as high as 20%. So at your church, your supermarket, your school, your neighborhood… a significant percentage are out of work. Really, all lazy and undeserving of medical care? Certainly not.
And think for a second about how many employers have given up with trying to make a profit while also trying to pay the rapidly increasing cost of health insurance for employees. How many of the unemployed are unemployed BECAUSE of the insurance industry?
I don’t know what the right answer is but I think it’s essential to be open to options and quit parroting decades old drivel that isn’t relevant today.
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By: Delurker Girl Δ on August 18, 2009
at 12:20 PM
Sorry, but today’s GOP isn’t the party of Lincoln, he wouldn’t recognize it, and he sure wouldn’t join it.
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By: Anonymous on August 18, 2009
at 12:04 PM
“Chuck, Southern Democrats then became Republicans, don’t forget that.” -Anonymous
Lie.
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By: Anonymous on August 18, 2009
at 11:49 AM
Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY) spanks Joe Scarborough (R-Himself) on health insurance reform.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 18, 2009
at 11:22 AM
Anonymous – Name a few of those switchers. Throwing accusations without some kind of proof is lame.
I can call one for you. Grand Cyclops of the KKK, Senator Robert Byrd.
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By: Anonymous on August 18, 2009
at 11:08 AM
Stacey – Public OPTION yes. I don’t care if others want the “government to take care of them”. My problem is raising my taxes and requiring my small company to pay for the two employees I have to be in the program. If there is an OPTION, I would support it, just as I support the Post Office or FedEX. I just don’t want the government in charge of my fate.
I agree though, it really doesn’t have much chance to pass. LA Times and New York Times show Obama’s approval ratings are falling the more he pushes this issue.
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By: Azarches on August 18, 2009
at 11:04 AM
Chuck, Southern Democrats then became Republicans, don’t forget that.
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By: Anonymous on August 18, 2009
at 10:13 AM
James, you got the point across so much better than I could have, I knew you would, productive, socially valuable people don’t always have the means to get health insurance and many small businesses would be out of business if they were forced to provide it.
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By: Anonymous on August 18, 2009
at 9:41 AM
Azarches – As I understand it, the public option is exactly what you are asking for. Honestly I think even if people want a single payer (and I personally have mixed feelings about that) it doesn’t have a snowballs chance in hell of happening any time soon.
Greytdog – I think I love you. Everything you say is so smart.
Stacey
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By: Anonymous on August 18, 2009
at 9:26 AM
James, Lori, that is exactly what we need to all be doing. Don’t wait for the government to save us. Help your neighbor as you can.
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By: Azarches on August 18, 2009
at 9:17 AM
I too grew up in a rural area. It’s funny, one of my early memories is my loving mother standing in our country kitchen listening to me and my sister trying to one up each other about how many good deeds we did for our elderly neighbor. After my sister and I were through with our discussion we waited for our mother’s approving words and praise. Instead she turned to us and said, “girls you better get your shoes on, we need to go see Dr. Joe” Concerned, my sister and I asked why we needed to go to the Dr.? “To make sure you two didn’t break your arms patting yourself on the back” mom quipped…..point taken… and learned… That has stuck with me for nearly a half century. 😉
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By: lori on August 18, 2009
at 8:48 AM
Dawn, don’t be such a drama queen. Reacting to the mention of the founding fathers by bringing up slavery is childish. They rolled with the times. If slavery wasn’t so popular it would not have been legal.
When I think about our founding fathers I’m thinking about a time when the federal government had to justify everything it did. Now we the people are forced to justify why the government should not do something.
We just want to go back to this:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” – Amendment 10, ratified 1791.
PS- Southern Democrats fought FOR slavery. Southern Democrats fought AGAINST civil rights in the 60’s.
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By: Chuck on August 18, 2009
at 8:42 AM
According to the CBO the current health insurance proposal is unsustainable. Combine that with other huge spending programs which we or our grand children will eventually have to pay for the entire country will be singing “buddy can you spare a dime?” There is no free lunch.
Personally, we have “been there, done that.” Now a neighbor is. She had a stroke at work several weeks ago and while recovering at home she and her wife ( the first gay marriage in our county after Iowa made it legal) ran out of money because Aflec insurance payments didn’t start for a week. We bought their groceries and gave them sweet corn.
She is back at work as a fork lift operator earning $18,000 per year. Her co -workers donated vacation time and took up a collection to help out. Last week, her debit card was refused, and she discovered a $3,000 hospital bill several years old had not been paid. A computer error caused her to believe it had been paid. The hospital referred it to a collection agency which garnished her pay check. Her name is on her son’s checking account, and he couldn’t get any money out of his either.
We loaned the couple some money until the problem is straightened out with a payment schedual which lets her keep some of her pay. I don’t know how its done in big cities, but rural people help each other during hardships.
Each spring, my wife rummages through school trash cans for items kids have discarded. She fixes them up, and gives them to poor students the next fall.
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By: James on August 18, 2009
at 7:51 AM
Thank you to those who expressed well wishes for my son, he is recovering great. The therapists are impressed with his progress. Sorry i have been away and not able to follow-up here.
I guess the point I was trying to understand was, your health is in most cases related to the decisions in your life. Genetics, diet, activities, and environment are the major factors in everyone’s health. 3 of these are “user controlled”, one is controlled by God (or your parents if you will).
The debate here should not be weather health is a right or a privilege, but who should pay for it. My earlier post was if people want to have a government-run health care option, sign up and pay into it. The government can deduct it directly from your paycheck as taxes since that is what will be happening anyway. I don’t want to be involved so don’t make it mandatory.
Think of USPS and FedEX/UPS. All three are viable entities. USPS is government run, and despite losing my mail all the damn time, or putting it in the neighbors box, they are effective. On the other hand, if I have a very important item to ship, it will ALWAYS go private carrier simply because of the track record for me. It’s options in my opinion.
My understanding now is there are co-op plans being discussed as an alternative. I would agree with this, so long as I am not forced to be involved. why are we so willing to just turn over our paycheck to the government and expect them to do what’s best for us? Look at the “Cash for clunker” program.
My local dealers WON’T give the rebate because they aren’t getting paid like they were promised in ten days. What if your favorite doctor stopped seeing you on the government run option because he couldn’t get paid in a timely manner? What if your doctor was run out of practice because he wasn’t getting paid and his small local practice couldn’t keep up with the expenses of operation due to these delays.
Additionally, every state has laws that prohibit hospitals from denying services to anyone. If you go to the hospital, you aren’t going to be turned away because you don’t have insurance. I know this for a fact because I have been there and I have seen the people coming in, don’t speak a word of english and they still get care. I am paying my bill with the hospital and I don’t expect anyone of you in this list, or anywhere else for that matter, to pay for our visit. But that’s just me.
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By: Azarches on August 18, 2009
at 7:48 AM
Anonymous, yes, we used to hire “farm hands” in the past. Sometimes, they were crews of local junior high and high school kids. Twice, they were Mexican immigrant laborers. Like everyone else, we paid minimum wage, and there was no insurance. Actually, with low farm income margins, they were earning more per hour than we were. My wife and I worked beside them as we hand weeded up to three hundred acres of soy bean fields each summer.
As soon as our children were able to hold corn knives they worked with us in the bean fields, so we didn’t have to hire weeding crews. Our children earned a penny a weed. Our son learned how to drive a tractor and was doing field work by age eleven. Some neighbor kids drove tractors at an earlier age. As a result, both of our children have a higher than normal work ethic as young adults.
With the advent of Roundup ready soy beans and our adopting no- till farming, we didn’t need “hired hands. We then hired neighbors to help with big jobs like harvest, again with no insurance because they were independent contractors.
A neighbor and his son haul crops for us as we combine on a farm six miles from home. When we gave my father 24 hour care, I farmed at night and on weekends when my wife and children were home from school. Sometimes neighbors donated time keeping my father company or planting to help out.
Ranches, and large farms provide houses, sides of beef and other incentives to keep permanent hired workers. I think they include insurance, but I don’t know about all cases.
One of the news networks mentioned insurance cooperatives as an alternative to a single provider. I think they might work. Farmers have lived with cooperatives for generations. We buy products from our cooperative, and instead of hiring people to apply herbicides and fertilizer, their workers custom apply the products faster and more cheaply per acre than we could.
We all own stock in the corporation which we cannot sell until our deaths, and if the coop makes money, we get dividend checks. At the annual board meeting and dinner, we vote for directors and listen to an economist tell us how the business did. We also get breaks for what we buy during the year. The coop also sells heating oil and other products. As I said, I think the concept might be adoptable to insurance products, but it is just a guess.
Some of the Mexicans befriended several of my wife’s high school students who worked in the fields with us, and they invited them to a wedding in Mexico City. The migrants were able to finance their nice suburban home with a two car garage with their summer hard labor from the Mexican to Canadian borders.
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By: James on August 18, 2009
at 7:29 AM
I LOVE THIS BLOG!!!
You two ladies are the greatest!!!
🙂
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By: Gretchen on August 18, 2009
at 5:34 AM
Once again, a spot on comment.
I have to say about the woman who confronted Spector at one of the town hall meetings (Katie?) who wanted America to be like it was when the founding fathers were around. Let me see, slavery was legal, child labor was legal, women couldn’t vote, women couldn’t own property to name a few. Yep those were the days.
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By: Dawn on August 18, 2009
at 2:53 AM
Conspiracy theorists check this out. Let’s make sure we are watching all the right players, not just what’s on center stage.
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By: Poolman on August 18, 2009
at 12:15 AM
Boo hoo, oh you pander to THAT God. The one that doesn’t like black people, or Democrats, or anyone who disagrees with your narrow and bigoted view of the world. You give truly religious folks a bad name, and you don’t appear to be either smart or compassionate so that’s not so great for you, either.
Luckily for the rest of the world, we all have much kinder, universal deities to learn from and answer to when the time comes. I’m afraid you’ll be in a sad, dark place – trapped in your bigotry and writhing in self loathing through eternity. In other words, you are least Christian person I’ve heard from today. May my God bless your soul because you need it. I really hate to see fellow humans suffer such eternal damnation, but you might just deserve it.
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By: Snowing in Alaska on August 18, 2009
at 12:01 AM
Deomcarats are going down. You are shit for brains. Obama played you one and all. Ha Ha Ha
Rush Limbaugh knows exactly what he is doing. He is getting us ready to take our America back from all of you. You stupid shits.
God is on our side too. We will win. The South is where is all begins and where the new America will rise.
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By: Boo Hoo on August 17, 2009
at 11:16 PM
I agree…UAW, go find another home…somewhere past Alaska…I don’t know…maybe Russia…maybe Palin can show you the way
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By: give peas a chance on August 17, 2009
at 9:22 PM
UAW, I wanted to believe you had some sort of point to make and were a decent person under all the crap you spew. But you’ve made it pretty effin’ hard to do so. I’m giving up the effort.
Vaya con dios. I will now ignore you as I would any other troll. Not that you care, I’m sure. But maybe if everyone else ignores you too, you will finally tire of your juvenile antics here and go bother someone else.
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By: Δ Tine on August 17, 2009
at 9:18 PM
so everyone thought the “Numa Numa Rush” video was a terrible thing …
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 8:55 PM
An insurance company CEO would like to thank all the Useful Idiots who came out to shout down the health insurance reform town hall meetings.
‘Today, we are threatened with the possibility that a public option will be included in the final healthcare reform bill. It’s a fairly remote possibility–we pay our Congressmen well–but one that will yield disastrous consequences on our profit margins should it pass.
You see, a public option would represent a competitive force that would compel us to cut costs. Our compensation is likely one of the places where such cost cutting would occur.
So please keep up the good work, and for God’s sake, don’t call your congressmen and demand a public option–that’s like taking caviar out of my family’s mouth.’
LINK ~ “Save Our Profits”
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 17, 2009
at 8:42 PM
Out of the mouths
of sitcoms oft times
comes the truth.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 17, 2009
at 8:24 PM
not my blog, not my blog. But UAW is now using “humor” aggressively. It’s not simply racist and sexist and homophobic. He is forcing what purports to be “funny” on people who’ve said they don’t like it. This is the equivalent of blowing smoke in someone’s face when they’ve told you they’re asthmatic and then saying “don’t you got no sense of humor?”
I think that ugliness shouldn’t be tolerated, regardless of its source. I’d say that it would be appropriate for a clean up. And, if this crap repeats, for UAW to be blocked.
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By: Donna on August 17, 2009
at 8:22 PM
Health insurance is killing the public option. Just more proof of who runs our government.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/potter.health.insurance/index.html?iref=mpstoryview#cnnSTCVideo
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By: Poolman on August 17, 2009
at 8:05 PM
You’re wrong, Greytdog…UAW IS the shit on the porch.
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By: Stacy on August 17, 2009
at 7:28 PM
Thanks for the report, Greytdog…all sounds a bit creepy to me too. Let’s all hope for the best.
I do have to join in with the others re: UAW. He’s gone too far this time. It is one thing to have a differing opinion. It is quite another to post the videos and say the things he is saying this evening. And if you look at how it all started….He actually attacked Helen! Helen!!! of all people.
Somethings not right there that’s for sure.
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By: Terri on August 17, 2009
at 7:14 PM
I think UAW is having a stroke in stages.
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By: Mary G. on August 17, 2009
at 7:08 PM
I have yet to laugh about this situation, but Helen dear, you’ve done it!
It’s very sad when our nation choses to indulge in the ludicrous rants of those Repubs ( and some Democrats), HMO’s and prescription drug companies, instead of realizing a dream of universal health care for all Americans.
Your health, it seems, is a privilege and not a right in America. That just doesn’t seem right to me at all!
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By: thedemocraddict on August 17, 2009
at 6:57 PM
If anyone wants to learn more about Barack Obama, This is a good source. It is a series of videos that is a biography of his life.
http://www.biography.com/video.do?name=barackobama
I can’t believe people still use the excuse that we know nothing about him. Like that stupid letter UAW linked that I have seen several times. Ignorance, I say. Get your head out of Fox or your ass, if you can tell the difference, and visit the real world every once in awhile. Information is easy to find nowadays.
It is just so hard for some to believe that someone would actually want to be president to actually do some good for his fellow man. That is what bothers the “conservatives” so much. They got mixed up and think the “do unto others” is followed by “before they do unto you”. So that is what they expect. Their concerted attempts to destroy this American is evil and not inline with any true Christian values. I even know some that claim he is the antichrist. Thankfully God WILL judge the church. Send these goats to their rightful reward. I pray the true Christians will examine their hearts and get themselves right before God. Imagine what we could do if we had everyone working to improve our country. One could only hope with as much dark-seated hatred that is in between some peoples ears, that the vacuum they have created would cause their heads to implode. Now that would be a sight. So measure your head, and check it daily. If your asshat now slides past your brow, you might just be a deadneck.
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By: Poolman on August 17, 2009
at 6:53 PM
UAW are you okay?
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By: Greytdog on August 17, 2009
at 6:25 PM
UAW I didn’t say there were guns only that FL has a law that allows for concealed weapons. . .which just adds, IMO, to an already volatile mix. Actually if my knee wasn’t so bad, I would have stuck around a little longer just for jollies – between one group singing Onward Christian Soldiers, others singing Dixie and then some singing We Shall Overcome, it was quite a musical if loud crowd. All we needed was the River City HS Marching Band. . .then we could have played out West Side Story. . .or the Wild Wild West. . . human nature fascinates & amuses me – and the dynamics at play in these rallies are simply astounding. Oh – as for conservatives feeling they need protection – this is FL. We may have voted for Obama but underneath the “blue” is the Confederacy. So no – if these folks were packing heat I don’t think it was because they were “a’feared” for their lives -Like I don’t think the jackasses that show up armed at the Obama townhalls are packing heat out of fear. That’s a bunch of crap, you know it, and truly, I expect better of you.
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By: Greytdog on August 17, 2009
at 6:24 PM
Q: Two potatoes are walking down the street. One of them is a prostitute. How can you tell which one is the prostitute?
A: It’s the one stamped “Idaho.”
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 6:22 PM
greytdog…
in 08 Barack said if they bring a knife we’ll bring a gun…..Nancy’s calling on labor leaders to send squads……Holder let the Black Panthers go in Philadelphia…..
If there were any conservatives with guns it was because they thought they needed the protection…….
and if someone gets hurt we’ll blame??????OH YA……Bill O’Rielly
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 6:14 PM
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/youscareme.asp
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 5:51 PM
Tim, we can’t vote UAW off the island – he’s our living reminder of WHY we need change in this country. He’s just on a bit of a tear right now. And as long as he doesn’t pee in the corners or shit on the porch, I don’t think M&H will ban him. Leave him be – he’s happy regurgitating his own bile and chewing on it. Doesn’t mean we have to partake in it. We serve up quite a buffet here but that doesn’t mean we have to eat everything folks bring to the table. . .
So the townhall meeting was a naught. Got there 3 hours early and the line literally stretched for about 6 city blocks – for 125 seats. People were relatively cordial but you could feel the tension building. I decided my knee couldn’t take that standing for so long – and since FL now has a concealed weapons permit law, I really didn’t want to take chances with my own safety. Crowds, politics and guns – don’t mix, in my opinion. Especially in the South. Lots of Confederate flags too. . .creepy. News report said the lines have grown and the crowd has gotten rowdier & now the OPD is on site. Ick.
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By: Greytdog on August 17, 2009
at 5:36 PM
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 5:00 PM
“Sargento cheese – beloved by crackers”
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/246560/august-13-2009/glenn-harried-glenn-lost
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By: Poolman on August 17, 2009
at 4:53 PM
Helen, you sweet young thing, I think I love you!
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By: Gary on August 17, 2009
at 4:39 PM
“The hole they stitched up in Glenn Beck’s ass, hasn’t healed enough for him to stop talking out of it”
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation
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By: Poolman on August 17, 2009
at 4:38 PM
Just a thought while reading these blogs — why is it we want the free market when we are making a profit but when we aren’t doing well we want a bailout?
Also, people in Pittsburgh are holding car wash fundraisers for one of the women shot at the health club outside Pittsburgh. She doesn’t have health insurance and can’t pay her bills from her hospital stay after she was shot. She’s in her early 20’s, just graduated from college and has no insurance. She didn’t think she needed it because she’s healthy.
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By: kitkat on August 17, 2009
at 4:31 PM
Eight MORE sponsors pull from Beck!
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By: Donna on August 17, 2009
at 4:12 PM
Hey Gang,
I think it might be time to vote UAW off the island!
🙂
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By: Tim Bradshaw on August 17, 2009
at 4:03 PM
I suppose this one is racist….
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 3:58 PM
UAW,
You are nothing but trash.
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By: Clara B. on August 17, 2009
at 3:55 PM
UAW: It’s ironic because my elderly father is visiting us. He’s very conservative and we started to talk yesterday about Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. My point was that there’s an ugly, mean-spirited quality to what is passed off as their “humor” and I specifically used the Banking Queen parody as an example. I live for a good joke but I don’t think mocking someone’s sexuality or speech impediment is funny. Michael J. Fox’s Parkinsons isn’t funny. Hillary Clinton’s shape isn’t funny.
You are a bright person with an interesting viewpoint but that’s not worthy of you.
And Tine–please don’t be self-deprecating. You are wonderful and I love your posts.
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By: Donna on August 17, 2009
at 3:46 PM
you forgot to comment on the Rush video
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 3:43 PM
You think Congress went on vacation to give some time to discuss the Health Insurance Reform legislation?
Think again.
Only an idiot would shut down the fund raising / lobbying / bribery / gravy train so soon.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 17, 2009
at 3:35 PM
UAW….I have read your comments on this website for several months. I have never commented…until now. You are honestly a strange one. I cannot understand why you keep coming back. You are a complete ass. You have even had people show sympathy for your wife’s situation and yet you come back again and again and you constantly attack people. You then wonder why you are attacked? Just go find another blog with people who believe the stupid things that you believe.
This blog is about Margaret and Helen…it is FUNNY…it is also informative….you can really learn things here. Many things. There are crazy fools in this world….you are one of them….and they tend to ruin things for everyone else. I really think it is time for you to go. I just wish everyone else would just stop responding to your posts…maybe THAT is the answer! Treat you like the TROLL you are!!!
You are a complete ASSHOLE.
Wow…sorry folks….that has been a long time coming….sure felt good…..probably won’t do any good…but at least I tried.
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By: Michael R. on August 17, 2009
at 3:12 PM
UAW, there is NO doubt in my mind you find a clip titled “Banking Queen” funny when referring to Mr. Frank and his sexuality. I do not however, and in fact I find it offensive. You might want to keep your homophobia under cover a little bit more when trolling this site.
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By: lori on August 17, 2009
at 2:57 PM
I thought I was on a roll bashing Nancy…..OOPS…I’ll try not to make that mistake again….
I try to point out the double standard in this country……..answer this question…Why is it OK for the left to do something but not for the right????? Isn’t that being a hypocrite?????
Nancy calls it “Astroturf” but calls for others to keep these disrupters out or shout them down…I suppose that the ones that come in are”grassroots”….WTF
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 2:42 PM
Amen, brother UAW.
Disruption to make a point: hooray! even if I disagree.
Disruption for the sake of disruption: boo! go away, troll.
(P.S. You might want to attribute that quote, so people have a clue what you’re talking about.)
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By: ΔTine on August 17, 2009
at 2:11 PM
and as far as disrupters….
January 17, 2006: “So I thank all of you who have spoken out for your courage, your point of view. All of it. Your advocacy is very American and very important.”
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 2:04 PM
What would be the point in my repeating what so many other folks have already said here? There are many commenters on this site who are smarter, quicker, better connected, and more articulate than I. They actually make discussable points and answer questions.
You, on the other hand, post pointless, inflammatory links and NEVER respond intelligently to the people who call you out on them. All you ever do is try to point the fire back. Even you, apparently, believe your comments/links/etc. are pointless and indefensible, because you never bother to support them.
I never set out to be helpful or witty or smarter than everyone else. I mostly just read and try to learn. I comment when something’s bothering me, or amusing me, or whatever. I try to be at least marginally civil.
To me, your actions seem little more than spineless shit-stirring.
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By: ΔTine on August 17, 2009
at 2:04 PM
Y’all are just fabulous. You have to know I really wanted to tell you that, because I had to scroll down through a bazillion comments to tell you that! Wish I could get that many comments on my blog, but I guess not as many people want to read sermons (I’m a lefty liberal clergywoman).
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By: Maggie on August 17, 2009
at 2:03 PM
and for someone who hates health industry groups….
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32284060/ns/politics-cq_politics/
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 1:57 PM
tine….
went through posts and counted your helpful ideas….thought I’d list them
1…..
2…..
3…..
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 1:54 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/all-foxratings0817,0,3610412.story
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 1:23 PM
What’s your point, UAW? This blogger isn’t offering any helpful ideas, useful statistics, or…well…anything except one person’s opinion, a fear-mongering cartoon, and insipid quotes like this:
“The free market is the only solution to the challenges faced by the health care and insurance industry.”
Whatever. The free market is *not* the solution to every single problem in the U.S. Especially when it caused the problem to begin with.
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By: ΔTine on August 17, 2009
at 1:20 PM
I blame idgit homeschoolers and the wingnuts that cover for them:
NC Republicans Still Dumb…
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 17, 2009
at 1:19 PM
http://fr33avl.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/nancy-pelosi-calls-anti-healthcare-demonstrations-un-american-tlot-tcot-rlc-c4l-sgp-teaparty-tpp-liberty/
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 17, 2009
at 1:08 PM
Sure you did Lori. We believe you.
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 12:49 PM
Tine..;-) Thanks….
I turned a guy named Rick Bishop down for a prom date in the 70’s? you don’t suppose????? LOL
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By: lori on August 17, 2009
at 12:34 PM
Thanks this post. You great said. ))
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By: asif eminov on August 17, 2009
at 11:57 AM
Another large sponsor leaves Beck!
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By: Donna on August 17, 2009
at 11:34 AM
I do hope Margaret is well.
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By: Missy T. on August 17, 2009
at 11:32 AM
Greytdog, you are brave. A townhall meeting flanked by Ana and Bill 😉
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By: Raji on August 17, 2009
at 10:45 AM
Don’t kid yourself Tine, hypocrisy is your specialty.
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 10:44 AM
Actually, I do wish we didn’t have a black president so I could criticize him without being called a racist. I disagreed with the last three presidents over policy and behavior and not one person, Dem or Rep, ever called me a racist; they actually argued the points. I guess if you can’t defend your side of the issue and you have an easy out…
PS- I would vote for Bill Cosby, Alan Keyes, Walter Williams, or Jesse Lee Peterson in a heartbeat.
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By: Chuck on August 17, 2009
at 10:41 AM
MamaKat, thank you for your informative posts.
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By: Raji on August 17, 2009
at 10:40 AM
Sorry, I don’t do the exploding-head trick. Not into spittle or hypocrisy much either.
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By: ΔTine on August 17, 2009
at 10:38 AM
WOW, Whirled, that was a powerful speech summed up by his quote:
“The rest of us will just…eventually…ignore you and move on to saving this world and building a new one”
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By: Raji on August 17, 2009
at 10:37 AM
“Buddy can you spare a dime”.James? A lot of people are begging for help now, I just plunked some coins in a jar at a filling station yesterday for a person I don’t even know. They have cancer and no insurance.
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 10:36 AM
“Just pointing out some blindingly obvious hypocrisy blah blah spittle spittle spittle…”
As was Mr. Bishop when your hypocritial head exploded.
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 10:35 AM
James, just wondering, do you or have you even had a hired farm hand? Did you provide health insurance for him?
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 10:27 AM
No, not really, dear brave nameless Anonymous person. Just pointing out some blindingly obvious hypocrisy on the part of Rick Bishop (who, while clearly suffering from a severe case of sour grapes, at least has the cahones to choose an identifiable screen name).
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By: ΔTine on August 17, 2009
at 10:19 AM
A little defensive there Tine?
WOW, methinks the wingers doth protest too much.
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 10:15 AM
I wish I was in the land of cotton. Old times there are not forgotten.
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By: Dixie on August 17, 2009
at 10:04 AM
For those interested in signing a health care declaration supporting the President.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/health-care-action-center/?source=feature
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By: kitkat on August 17, 2009
at 10:00 AM
Oh really now, Mr. Bishop? And what party, if any, do you belong to? What a fine example of openness, friendliness, and general good citizenship *you* are setting. Well done.
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By: ΔTine on August 17, 2009
at 9:34 AM
lori, your “perfect” party has a much wider back door than front porch. By the time members, wishing face time, arrive at the front door they are to be in lock step.
Being so open-minded I would expect your graces to extend beyond your party’s political front porch. Your party disgusts me right now. So open and so friendly within the confines of your political church house. Total hypocrits as soon as you enter back into the real world. You don’t even come close to practicing what you preach. And I’m here to tell you your party preaches endlessly. It’s sickening.
History always exposes excesses, abuses, truth. You are in for a rude awakening in years to come. You and the democratic party are going to be really embarrassed later. The silence for those now preaching will be fun to watch.
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By: Rick Bishop on August 17, 2009
at 9:26 AM
I love this blog ! it is so satisfying to come across folks with views close to my own, who can fully but humorously articulate them. Please keep up the great writing !
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By: Francis on August 17, 2009
at 9:17 AM
We expect the citizens of our country to be able to read when our “best and brightest”, our elected officials don’t even bother to read the bills they pass. Get real granny. Congress is the ignorant mob we all need to worry about. They have no conscience for how the bills they pass affect the rest of us. All they know is they scratch backs and their backs get scratched. It’s not simple coincidence that this process lines their pockets and buys results in the next election.
I remember a time when public servants were people of character with different opinions. Now they are a bought and paid for mob. I remember a time when, for the good of the country, the press deserved the special protections they have in the constitution. I remember when they were there to protect us from irresponsible and corrupt governing mobs. Now they are part of these political mobs. It’s time for an investigation of the press. They have abused the special protections they live under.
I remember a long, long, time ago when Pelosi defined herself by the dissention and protests of her party. Now she labels dissenters as Nazis or a racists. What changed in the last months? “Off with their heads.”
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By: Rick Bishop on August 17, 2009
at 9:08 AM
JuneauJoe
I am saddened by your account of your loved one’s last days. Stories like this only serve to deepen my desire for end of life counseling and education. As an ICU nurse, before I entered hospice care, I witnessed stories like yours many, many times. Patients would come with advanced directives filled but not signed by a doctor, they would complete adv directives on care choices, but fail to designate a durable medical power of attorney. And sometimes, doctors simply thought they knew better, and under the auspices of working in an all or none facility, found ways to circumnavigate the patient’s dying wishes.
If you read sections 1232 and 1233 carefully, you’ll note that not only is a consultation required, doctors and nurse practitioners must take and show proof of education in end of life concerns. The language in these sections is not everything we need to change with respect to this aspect of care, but it is a start to ensure that the medical community advocates for the autonomy and rights of our dying loved ones.
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By: MommaKat on August 17, 2009
at 8:56 AM
You’ve certainly pegged this one well. I am both shocked and dismayed at the lack of understanding, education, or willingness to become educated on this issue. Living wills are not that difficult to understand, but they do take time to look over, ponder, and study. Anyone interested can go to fivewishes.com to learn more. Perhaps more difficult to grasp are the nuances, differences between, and time to use a durable medical power of attorney, a health care proxy, etc. Certainly the most confusing of all, and truly demanding a bit of education and mind work, are the differences between palliative care, and hospice; not to mention what treatment interventions are covered under the auspices of each care plan, and who provides them.
That the house health care bill calls for a separate consultation every five years makes perfect sense to me. But then, I am a former hospice nurse, and I strongly believe patients, their loving spouses, and their families, have a right to hear this information before they become terminally or acutely ill. I find it reprehensible that far too often it is a bedside nurse on the hospital floor with less than five minutes to spare who tosses a five wishes pamphlet at a family, along with a yellow DNR brochure, and expects the overwhelmed and unwell to decipher all the medical and legal mumbo jumbo. Hospice care is provided for by medicare. It is meant to server the patient family for the last year of a persons life. It is not meant to be suddenly used in the last hours or days when little can be done to assist a family through the transition of a loved one’s passing. That the problems inherent in a misunderstood, underutilized, oft mistreated set of services is being addressed in this attempt at health care reform is a wonderful thing, not something to bemoan.
I really wish
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By: MommaKat on August 17, 2009
at 8:43 AM
Senators Harkin’s and Grassely’s offices staffs now recognize my voice when I call. I am always polite and thank them for their hard work.
Rep King’s office is closed today. The other two don’t know if the IRS connection is true or not. Though they tried to hide the fact, they don’t have a clue about that part of the proposed legislation. Harkin’s rep said he will send me a letter after he checks. Grassley’s rep said what the Senator and the others in the “gang of six” do is undetermined until September.
Senator Harkin’s rep suggested Switzerland in answer to my question about a system somewhere in the world that works without losing a lot of money. I have no idea what Switzerland’s plan is like, but I will check when I have time.
Lori, letting the House leave with a bill before the August recess was one of Obama’s and Nancy Pelosi’s dreams. He pushed hard for it because as a good politician, he knew haste gave its best chance for life. That they failed to approve a bill was a change in the political wind as Blue Dogs and others wavered.
“Obama took the unconventional political road” because he had little choice. Otherwise, the political cost would have been too heavy.
Greytdog, I don’t agree or disagree, because I don’t know. A Democrat made that point on a talk show, and a Republican said except for procedural amendments, they were locked out of the debate. I do wonder if centrist Republicans and Blue Dog democrats wrote major parts of the proposed legislation, like evolution to single payer, why do they oppose them now?
Congressman Lee Terry is holding a radio town meeting on KFAB Omaha right now. He said House bill 3200, while not spelling it out, would lead to an exclusive single payer system sometime in the future.
A caller just asked Rep Terry why we all can’t join our legislators’ health care insurance system. His amendment was that if the public option passes, Congressmen and others would enter the program with the rest of us. The chair ruled his amendment as “non -germain.”
I think Howard Dean is wrong. If a public option becomes law, I think it will be more similar to the French system’s than what is now in the bills. If we get what becomes an exclusive single payer plan within fifteen or twenty years, instead of “Happy days…” we will be singing ” buddy can you spare a dime?”
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By: James on August 17, 2009
at 8:41 AM
WOW, methinks the wingers doth protest too much.
But, as the old black lady in my neighborhood used to say:
“If the white pointy hood fits…”
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 17, 2009
at 8:28 AM
Non-profit Co ops for $200 please Alex.
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 8:24 AM
Just paraphrasing Dr. Howard Dean from this morning’s Morning Joe Show: He predicts the House bill will have the public option and the senate’s will not, then of course, they go into reconciliation and at that point the public option goes back into the bill and it will then pass in the Senate, because it when only requires the vote of the majority of the Senate. “Happy Days are here again….”
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By: Anonymous on August 17, 2009
at 7:53 AM
Actually James, Centrist Republicans & the Blue Dog Dems wrote the most prominent version(s) of the proposed legislation.
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By: Greytdog on August 17, 2009
at 7:43 AM
The conventional political wisdom (Poly sci 101) is when you have such huge majorities in the house and a clear majority in the senate…is use em if you got em… Obama took the unconventional political road.. Time will tell if his risk paid off….
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By: lori on August 17, 2009
at 7:32 AM
No James, the risk was in allowing them to go home without a bill.
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By: lori on August 17, 2009
at 7:30 AM
With such large Democratic majorities, Obama could have forced the House bill before the August recess, but he would have payed a horrible political price, and his plan would have gone down in flames after the Senate weighed in. Now, he must negotiate as he should have in the beginning instead of letting the liberal wing of the House write the most prominent version of the proposed legislation.
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By: James on August 17, 2009
at 7:27 AM
“I FEEL GOOD. JUST LIKE I KNEW THAT I WOULD, SO GOOD SO GOOD…”
The Obama administration now says it can accept a health insurance bill without the public option. It is probably a trial balloon instead of capitulation, but it is a sign grass roots protests are effective and that more people are reading the bills.
Dr. Anne Doig, the incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association said “We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize.”
The outgoing president says the system needs more private services–maybe more like the French which I earlier suggested to be better than the current House proposals.
Racheal Maddow was caught in a lie on Meet the Press yesterday. She said Moveon.org never ran a commercial comparing Bush to Hitler when they did. I don’t remember if the ad was the winner of a contest and was taken down after protest, or if I am thinking of something else, but they did run a Hitler ad.
Obama and the Democrats wanted to rush the House bill through before the August recess. Now Rep Murtha, one of Pelosi’s lieutenants, says it is important to move slowly, maybe even past January. We still don’t know what the “Gang of Six” is up to.
Lori, I am not paranoid. “Trust but verify.” If all three of my Congressional representatives who don’t belong to the same party give the same answer, I will assume it to be true.
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By: James on August 17, 2009
at 7:06 AM
Greytdog, I understand your anger concerning the blue dogs.
My personal political leanings fall more in line with libertarian democrats (although not exclusively). And at times I find myself at odds with my party’s views. One of the beauties of the democratic party is we have a big “front porch” and invite all to join us as long as we share the basic platform. As you vent your anger with the pups please remember 24 of those puppies won republican seats and many of them live in the solid “red state” areas of the country. Without them (and like minded people) we forfeit a significant portion and of the country and would likely be calling Sarah madam VP.
I have said before our president is a smart politician. I can assure you there have been a few 100 hours of discussion as to how to approach this healthcare fight. He knew exactly what he was up against when he ran on healthcare reform. He has decided to allow the debate to continue. He COULD have used all his capital and forced a vote in the house, the votes are there, but instead he has held to his campaign promise to be the United States President, both red and blue states. For good or for bad, time will tell, he has chosen to be true to his campaign rhetoric and try and change Washington from a fiercely partisan battle ground to a place where civil debate takes place. It will be interesting to see when push comes to shove what he will allow and how far he will go. He has decided to govern as a centrist, lets hope this month has given the pups some political cover and they come back and get to work and get a bill we can all swallow.
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By: lori on August 17, 2009
at 7:04 AM
I’m heading to a health care reform town hall today. This may be my last post (Not really, but sounds good, yes?) Anyway, my last scheduled appt is at 4PM so plan to head down to the meeting place no later than 430 – even though it doesn’t start until 730. I want a seat front & center. I may be tweeting the T.H. events while S.O. takes pics. Should be interesting. Wondering if I should take along some popcorn. . .
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By: Greytdog on August 17, 2009
at 6:46 AM
M&H and fans: I am sorry to change the subject but I cannot let Anonymous try to espouse that because of the dixiecrat’s vote in 1964 the democratic party was not the party that brought about the beginning of change in the civil rights movement. Since the mid 20th century (Roosevelt New Deal era) the democratic party has been the party for the minority and poor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)
Anonymous, perhaps you need to read about Nixon’s southern strategy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Strategy
and here is another one Anonymous:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat
and as far as Robert Byrd is concerned:
Byrd has since explicitly renounced his earlier views on racial segregation.[47][48] Byrd said that he regrets filibustering and voting against the Civil Rights Act of 1964[18] and would change it if he had the opportunity. He has stated that joining the KKK was “the greatest mistake I ever made”.[47] Byrd has also said that his views changed dramatically after his teenage grandson was killed in a 1982 traffic accident, which put him in a deep emotional valley. “The death of my grandson caused me to stop and think,” said Byrd, adding he came to realize that black people love their children as much as he does his. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd#Race_and_race_relations
Conversely our dear President Reagan was quite the uniter wasn’t he?
Bob Hebert said this about Reagan in the New York Times,
“Reagan was opposed to the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 . . . as president, he actually tried to weaken the Voting Rights Act of 1965. He opposed a national holiday for the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He tried to get rid of the federal ban on tax exemptions for private schools that practiced racial discrimination. And in 1988, he vetoed a bill to expand the reach of federal civil rights legislation”.
“Throughout his career, Reagan was wrong, insensitive and mean-spirited on civil rights and other issues important to black people. There is no way for the scribes of today to clean up that dismal record”.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/8/115433/1167/550/590329
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By: lori on August 17, 2009
at 6:05 AM
[…] care plan will bring about the “death squads” Sarah Palin warned about? Helen will set you straight. You’re an idiot. Furthermore, Helen reassures you that your final wishes are all in your own […]
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By: My Virtual Grandmothers in the Blogosphere | Left Coast Cowboys on August 17, 2009
at 3:56 AM
OMG – I love you guys & this blog. I am so glad I found it through twitter.
My parents – die hard republicans. My mother seems to place GWB 4th on her list of men: God, husband, son, then GWB.
Will you adopt me?
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By: Jen C on August 17, 2009
at 2:37 AM
UAW, don’t know what got your goat about Helen’s latest post – except I’d bet my last dollar that she was spot on about the red-faced gun slinging mad-as-hellers showing up at those town halls. They do not even know what they are protesting, but they sure are adamant about standing up for something they do not understand.
thymeCher and Whirled, thanks for the video links. Funny stuff. I’ll go check out http://www.defendglenn.com/advertisers.php
and cancel out our favorite M&H nemesis.
Week 5 into my Rich Dad training. Listening to his (Robert Kiyosaki) books on tape. One point that he made that stands out to me is that most people expect someone else to take care of them in their golden years, be it their retirement plan, government, insurance, family, church, etc. It worked before (company retirement), but not any more. More senior citizens will have to work for the rest of their lives to support their lifestyles. Scary.
It might be best if the health care issue waits for next year. If Congress can look and learn from France, Canada, Japan, etc. about what works best with their health care systems, a really great plan may emerge that even the no-sayers have to admit is a great proposal.
I would love to see Universal Health Care sooner than later, but with all the fears and mistruths circulating now, it is better to get it right rather than fast.
Peace, Love, Woodstock, and Namaste.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 17, 2009
at 12:28 AM
[…] loved this post at Noble Savage. She can tell it like it is. And this post, which I found through the Misadventures of the Monster Librarian. Possibly related posts: […]
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By: Fear Itself « No.1 Mouse Place on August 16, 2009
at 11:48 PM
Make your signs and greet Congress when they return from their vacations, make them work for us. If enough people show up they will get the message loud and clear, we want affordable healthcare for all.
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 9:08 PM
Ahhh the good ole days. I went with mom to the beauty parlor twice a week, every week, for years and years.
My parents dressed up to go see a movie. My mom put on a dress to go see the doctor.
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By: Regretful on August 16, 2009
at 8:51 PM
UAW: He just complains – typical Republican.
No meaningful solutions to problems but get upset at those who actually try to deal with problems.
HEALTH CARE IS A WRECK right now! 1400 people per day are losing their health care, often because they actually had to use the health care.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 16, 2009
at 8:49 PM
you seem to be able to criticize, but never a part of the solution! What’s up with that?
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By: Cbear on August 16, 2009
at 8:45 PM
http://www.seattlepi.com/fun/mallard.asp
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 8:23 PM
Also unrelated, but interesting nonetheless –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd
Byrd (D-WV) is President pro tempore of the United States Senate, a position that puts him third in the line of presidential succession, behind Vice President Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
Lo-lights:
Byrd joined the Ku Klux Klan when he was 24 in 1942. His local chapter unanimously elected him Exalted Cyclops
Joined with other Southern and border state Democrats to filibuster the Civil Rights Act of 1964
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 8:19 PM
http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/pccartoons/permalink.asp?artist=lester&date=090813
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 8:17 PM
http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/pccartoons/permalink.asp?artist=garymccoy&date=090814
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 8:16 PM
thymeCher….
pisses you right off when Conservatives use liberal tactics….thanks for the website and phone numbers…I’ll call tomorrow….
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 8:15 PM
Theresa…
Ron White makes more sense than you……
and I’m sure with some genetic engineering they can come up with a cure for your sloped forehead….and if Obama can make jokes about people with disabilities so can I
http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/pccartoons/permalink.asp?artist=ramirez&date=090815
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 8:01 PM
I bet if you dug a little deeper there would be a DIRECT direct link to GB, or Faux. I smell a dirty rotten skunk here…
“DISCLAIMER: DEFENDGLENN.com is a FAN SITE, and is not affiliated with Glenn Beck, the Glenn Beck Program, Fox New Channel, NewsCorp Inc., or Premiere Radio Networks.” Ha! Yeah right!
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By: thymeCher on August 16, 2009
at 8:00 PM
M & H er’s just found this site and wanted to pass it along so that we “extremists’ who are mailnly unemployed college kids and bloggers” as Glenn Beck supporters are calling us, can call and voice our views to not advertise on Glenn Beck’s show or the FauxNews Network.
This will get your dander up…
http://www.defglenn.com/advertisers.php
They have a list w/ phone numbers of advertisers called the ‘Turncoat List’.
“To contact these advertisers…click the links at left (the “Turncoat List”).
This is what their ad says:
“Suggestions: Please be respectful. Ask them when they will be renewing their ads on Glenn Beck and let them know that if they are going to stand with extremists like Color of Change and DailyKos you will join in boycotting them. DO NOT be mean or make any threats, simply say “I know you were advertising on Glenn Beck’s show and I know you were frightened into pulling your ads because of this campaign. We are a far larger group than the extremists. We actually work for a living–we have a family of X and buy tons of XXX, and the boycotters are mainly unemployed college kids and bloggers. I want to continue to support your company, buy if you boycott of Glenn Beck, my family will boycott you.”
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By: thymeCher on August 16, 2009
at 7:41 PM
greytdog…
I agree that something needs to be done…..shooting yourself in the foot won’t help…and the Dems are really impressive after the last 40 years of welfare, education, and health care….the Medicare prescription bill was basically Ted Kennedy’s……and the Repubs are still catching hell for it ….WTF….even Rush called “Dubya” left of center before 9/11
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 7:23 PM
IMO, people who can’t afford health insurance being called unproductive has as much truth to it as people who assert that those protesting health reform are racist. I think both are BS prejudices.
If there’s a color to it maybe it’s the color green, but not black. That’s my takie anyway.
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 7:22 PM
Non-profit Co ops for the win!
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 7:02 PM
You two are spot on and hilarious to boot. My new favorite blog. Thank you for cutting through all the BS and telling it like it is. Love you two
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 6:58 PM
Vote stats on the Civil Rights Act of 1964
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
Vote Statistics
Vote Totals
Totals are in “Yea-Nay” format:
The Original House Version: 290-130 (69 percent-31 percent)
The Senate Version: 73-27 (73 percent-27 percent)
The Senate Version, as voted on by the House: 289-126 (70 percent-30 percent)
By Party
The Original House Version:
Democratic Party: 153-96 (61 percent-39 percent)
Republican Party: 138-34 (80 percent-20 percent)
Democratic Party: 46-22 (68 percent-32 percent)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82 percent-18 percent)
The Senate Version, voted on by the House:
Democratic Party: 153-91 (63 percent-37 percent)
Republican Party: 136-35 (80 percent-20 percent)
Switches in position:
“Yea” to “Nay”: Earl Wilson (R-IN), Bob Wilson (R-CA), and Charlotte T. Reid (R-IL)
“Nay” to “Yea”: John Jacob Rhodes (R-AZ), J. Edward Hutchinson (R-MI), and Charles Weltner (D-GA).
By Party and Region
The Original House Version:
Southern Democrats: 7-87 (seven percent-93 percent)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (zero percent-100 percent)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94 percent-six percent)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85 percent-15 percent)
The Senate Version:
Southern Democrats: 1-20 (five percent-95 percent)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (zero percent-100 percent)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98 percent-2 percent)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84 percent-16 percent)
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 6:49 PM
UAW, I think our health care system is on life support. And I think anyone who says otherwise needs to have a good swift kick to the balls. I think what people don’t get – or maybe I’m off base here – is that the health care bills are merely the tip of the iceberg. Yes, we need tort reform, yes we need to figure out how to encourage medical students to go into primary/family care, and yes we need to figure out how to keep our primary care/family physicians from bailing into specialties where they can make the $$ needed to pay off their debts. Personally speaking, I see these bills as merely addressing how to make healthcare accessible & affordable – and I really don’t buy the argument that a public option will destroy the insurance industry. We are a capitalistic society that lives and breathes free market – so I just see the public option as another competitor that may provide the incentive to get the private insurance companies to start being more reasonable in their treatment/coverage of their customers. I don’t like the idea of healthcare being tied to employment – I can’t afford COBRA – and I don’t like being told that unproductive people (this was from another blog) are the only ones who want the public option. I’m very productive but can’t afford health insurance. And I have my reservations about the non-profit health co-ops. Seems to me that they will be run along the same lines as the HSAs which simply throw account holders into solitary confinement as they try to negotiate rates and such with medical providers. Plus co-ops won’t be portable – so if I have to move, I would have to start from square one. With the public option, I could move without fear of losing coverage.
As for trusting the Dems, well, then channel your anger into more productive methods. Just like I’m having to – yes I’m pissed – at the blue dogs more than the Republicans. And you know me and dogs – I believe in spay/neuter and right now I totally believe in holding a Blue Dog Neuter/Spay clinic. . . free.
Okay, my rant is over. Sigh. Long weekend. Longer week ahead. Knee surgery will be $5K+ so have to get more work appts scheduled. . .
UAW, hoping your wife is doing okay. Tell her I said hi. Take care all
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By: Greytdog on August 16, 2009
at 6:45 PM
“It seems when things need to get things done, it is up to the Dems to do it.” -quote
I don’t knwo about that.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 6:44 PM
Matthew?? Clean up?? Are you there???
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By: Stacy on August 16, 2009
at 6:36 PM
Keep going UAW….bring it on, Old man.
Your penis is small too.
Racist Asshat.
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By: Theresa on August 16, 2009
at 6:36 PM
UAW, deep breaths now. I for one do not consider anyone who did not vote for Obama a racist. I do think that much of the rage and aggressive behavior we are seeing right now has a deep racial undercurrent to it. People are angry at other things and it is coming out at the health care debate.
Here’s the problem. It seems when things need to get things done, it is up to the Dems to do it. If we leave it to the Repubs, we get a big fat mess to clean up. They had 8 glorious years, and we see what they did with that. If you look at Medicare, social security, civil rights and other programs that benefit the country as a whole, you look to the Dems. What, UAW, would you trust the Dems to do? Because I don’t trust the Repubs to do anything not in some corporation’s interests. They certainly haven’t had me, my family, my friends, or America’s interests at heart.
An interesting quote I heard: “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.”
Winston Churchill
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By: kitkat on August 16, 2009
at 6:29 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 6:27 PM
greytdog….
at least you realize that it’s not always “Rethuglicanism”…..if Theresa would swallow once in a while she would have some intelligent DNA in her……your damn right I’m pissed…I’m sick and tired of being called a racist because I didn’t vote for Obama or agree 100% with what he wants….Colin Powell is more of a racist because he voted for Barack….the libs want him to be the leader of the Rethuglicans….to Friggien bad…he’s just an asshat…..how much more liberal as a Repub can you get than McCain…WTF……the fresh cut alfalfa helped a little but I spent all day doing what the illegal aliens do…so Theresa can swallow mine also….
does our health care system need some work done on it….YES….can I TRUST the DEMS to do it….F%CK NO….
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 6:15 PM
I can’t agree about women visiting the beauty salon at least once a week, but I can definitely agree on making oneself presentable in public. A comb works well enough for me; no beauty salon required. Where do they dig these people up from? They look as though they just stumbled in after a few weeks of fighting their way through the Amazon or some really crazy sex.
Anyway, your post was, as usual, hilarious and true. When did Americans become so ignorant? It seems to be the new trend these days, and like bell bottoms in the ’70s and big hair in the ’80s, we know not all trends are good. Those trends, however, weren’t dangerous.
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By: missra on August 16, 2009
at 6:05 PM
Conyers helped write HR 676, of course he is going to back it. That isn’t anything like what is on the floor of the Senate, unless they are debating S 703. HR 676 is supposed to be introduced when the house returns from vacation. Think the insurance companies are up in arms right now? They flat out do not want single-payer. That put’s them in a tier position, at best, with little control and much less profit. They are too powerful a lobby to get bumped out of the picture in the way our government works. All we are getting hacked out is insurance reform, in exchange for complete coverage for all. The big fight is a government option. Right now that is pretty much off the table. They are trying to get a couple non-profits in the mix…
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By: Poolman on August 16, 2009
at 6:01 PM
UAW I’m not really sure what specifically about Helen’s post has you all het up, but then again, you do seem pissed a lot anyway. But there’s a lot to be pissed about, IMO. We’re just ticked off at different things.
But that said, doesn’t excuse Therese’s rude behavior. Hoping someone dies is simple. . . Rethuglicanism. Even when followed by a smiley emoticon.
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By: Greytdog on August 16, 2009
at 5:55 PM
Theresa….
I guess I was right….
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 5:54 PM
Theresa’s check didn’t last the whole month and she’s mad as hell and she’s not going to take it anymore!
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 5:51 PM
That’s it, UAW….Keep it up…get all excited…maybe one of those clogged valves of yours will rupture.
🙂
Asshat.
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By: Theresa on August 16, 2009
at 5:47 PM
Theresa …
you spit also…
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 5:39 PM
i’M STILL PISSED….
I think that Helen had some intelligent DNA in her head at one time but then spit it out…..
I haven’t heard about anyone calling John Conyers a racist….He’s backing HR 676….He apparently doesn’t agree with Barack either…..
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 16, 2009
at 5:37 PM
No….just hate UAW. Really. I mean it.
🙂
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By: Theresa on August 16, 2009
at 5:34 PM
I’d like to ask my representatives to vote on a bill that gives health insurance to everyone in the country except for Theresa.
A few facts about Theresa –
No health insurance
No job
No household budget
No work ethic
No character
No skills
No talents
No purpose
No hope
No class
No character
No relationship
No friends
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 5:32 PM
Ah shoot….thought UAW had died already….
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By: Theresa on August 16, 2009
at 4:40 PM
The party of NO’s anthem:
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By: thymeCher on August 16, 2009
at 2:35 PM
Helen, you are a dear. This is the best summation of the entire debate over health care reform that I’ve read. Thank you, for your wisdom.
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By: Cynthia on August 16, 2009
at 2:03 PM
Not that we have many shining examples of political parties or politicians sense in Canada; I am still happy to see some trying to bring the conversations down there back to a simmer. So many Boogeymen, so little spittle.
Thanks ladies.
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By: Spotter of Yellow Legs on August 16, 2009
at 1:45 PM
Wow, you’re 25% of the way to the NEXT million hits!
Anyway, yes, go non-profit coops! If we are lucky enough to have them succeed, hopefully they’ll pave the way to cutting the costs of our current system!
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By: Susan in CT on August 16, 2009
at 1:37 PM
If anyone missed Meet the Press this morning, here is a link to the full episode as well as an extra interview with Rachel Maddow following.
http://www.facebook.com/l/;www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32424637
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By: kitkat on August 16, 2009
at 12:03 PM
Southern Democrats calling someone else racist is funny.
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 11:59 AM
[…] real and the rationing of health care is ongoing. But the last word on death panels has to go to Helen Philpot: And what’s all this crap about killing your grandmother? Are you people honestly that stupid? […]
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By: Autumn’s topic at 10,000 Monkeys and a Camera on August 16, 2009
at 11:45 AM
“Thank you Congressman for
allowing me to ask a ques…”
Cue the Useful Idiots.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 16, 2009
at 10:50 AM
Go non-profit co ops!
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 10:29 AM
Pure, unadulterated awesomeness.
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By: Jenny, Bloggess on August 16, 2009
at 10:22 AM
PartyPiper sez: “They’re going to win by screaming and ranting incoherently until you just walk away and give up. And then they will think they have won.”
In this editorial
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/14/AR2009081401495.html?sid=ST2009081402964
the author remembers this:
“When Adlai Stevenson spoke at a 1963 United Nations Day observance in Dallas, the Indignation forces thronged the hall, sweating and furious, shrieking down the speaker for the television cameras. Then, when Stevenson was walked to his limousine, a grimacing and wild-eyed lady thwacked him with a picket sign. Stevenson was baffled. “What’s the matter, madam?” he asked. “What can I do for you?” The woman responded with self-righteous fury: “Well, if you don’t know I can’t help you.” “
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By: Susan in CT on August 16, 2009
at 10:21 AM
Just spread the facts. It’s not about the protestors, Rush, party, volume, hairdos, etc etc etc. Just start spreading the facts. And be open to change. We’ll get a bill, and it won’t be perfect but it’ll be good. All the opinion and clever arguing in the world isn’t worth spit against a fact.
Obama said it and we’d better start listening or November 2010 is gonna hurt like hell.
Spread The Facts.
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 10:15 AM
“Next up was a Dominican nun, Stella Storch, who rose to endorse the Obama administration’s goal of covering millions of uninsured. She expressed concern that e-mail campaigns were misleading Americans with “trigger words” such as socialism, rationing and Nazism.
“You’re done!” shouted a woman about 20 feet away, joining a chorus of jeers. “Next!” shouted another. Storch sat down.”
From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
I think the reason the Repugnicants are riling up their “base” (Including that lady who came out for a McCain rally, I’m sure) is because YOU CAN’T ARGUE WITH CRAZY. This nun had a POINT. SHE WAS RIGHT. But she also wasn’t going to get into a shouting match because she’s a reasonable human being, and a damn sight more religious and godly than probably anyone else in that room, with exception of any other nuns that might have accompanied her.
You know this. It’s why you don’t talk politics with certain relatives. You know that you can be right, you can win your argument through logic, but by god, that’s not good enough. They’re going to win by screaming and ranting incoherently until you just walk away and give up. And then they will think they have won. These are the same people who worship at the altar of Rush, and who think that they’re failing at college et al because their professor “isn’t fair.” NOw, I’ve written things my profs didn’t agree with… it’s resulted in a FEW POINTS off, maybe… because I crafted my argument well.
Conservatives haven’t been honing their argument or debating skills. They’ve been honing their screaming angry mob skills.
Let them hang by it.
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By: PartyPiper on August 16, 2009
at 9:52 AM
[…] tip of my thorny crown to Margaret and Helen. Check out their site for other clever commentaries, it’s well worth the […]
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By: Out Of The Mouths Of Octogenarians « The Gospel of Super Jesus on August 16, 2009
at 9:06 AM
FULL DISCLOSURE:
The spread of Betsy McCaughey.
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 16, 2009
at 8:57 AM
UAW was probably drunk other anonymous.
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 8:36 AM
I don’t think UAW needs to reread Helen’s post. He got it right. “Helen” knows what she’s doing. UAW may be a tighty whitey but he got the point. And he calls bullshit.
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 7:12 AM
President Obama in
The New York Times:
Why We Need Health Care Reform
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 16, 2009
at 6:51 AM
For anyone that wants the TRUTH about the bill, why don’t you just read it…or do you not have the time either? Think for yourself. Read the bill. Stop relying on all those nut jobs out there on both sides to do your homework for you all the while twisting things around. Read it. Please keep your opinions to yourself if YOU have not read it.
Stop with the race card already. I don’t care about color, race, gender (if you have even decided yet), sexual preference, religion, or anything else. Just go to work, pay your taxes, take responsibility for yourself and your actions, and go get your hair done and shut up.
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By: Elaine Wentworth on August 16, 2009
at 6:08 AM
James, you might want to read this:
The Rise and Fall (and Rise) of Betsy McCaughey – Conor Clarke http://bit.ly/hHmsF
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By: Greytdog on August 16, 2009
at 5:54 AM
Good point lori.
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By: Anonymous on August 16, 2009
at 5:37 AM
‘We get by with a little
help from our friends.’
Happy 40th Anniversary Woodstock
Peace and Love my M&H friends! ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 16, 2009
at 5:17 AM
James says, I will call our Senators and Representative next week and ask if the blogger’s interpretation of the passages is true or not.
Anyone who trusts our elected and appointed officials is a fool.
_________________________
Sooooo James when you call your elected offical next week and ask him your questions will you be trusting his answers? Just curious.
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By: lori on August 16, 2009
at 5:17 AM
Helen, you are the greatest!! Love ya, hun
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By: Nancy on August 16, 2009
at 5:10 AM
No James, everyone does not have to file a tax return. When Bush was handing out $300-$600 as an economic stimulus, the government encouraged people to file so they could receive the money.
At one time everyone had to file but I think the change occurred with the reduction of paper work act but don’t hold me to that statement.
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By: Raji on August 16, 2009
at 4:31 AM
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/
for anyone who wants the facts about the H bill.
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By: lori on August 16, 2009
at 4:28 AM
Great link.. Whirled. You are right, boycotts do work!
Way to go Warren Buffet.
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By: Raji on August 16, 2009
at 4:22 AM
UAW, please go back and reread Helen’s latest post. Your reaction was the same as one of the earlier poster’s 20 year old daughter until he explained it to her. Remember, Helen writes with a sense of humor 😉
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By: Raji on August 16, 2009
at 4:18 AM
“I agree, we have let Congress get too powerful. A sign of that is how Obama let Congress write the versions of the health bill.”
Who is supposed to write the bills?
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By: Poolman on August 15, 2009
at 11:43 PM
Ragi, I agree with some of what you wrote.
This goes beyond one man’s opinion toward interpretation of quotes.
The blogger cites Section 161 at pp. 103-104 of the Senate bill. The tax is called “shared responsibility” the law would require a lack of coverage for a month before the tax kicks in. It does not specify a certain percentage, but directs that “the secretary shall seek to establish the minimum practicable amount that can accomplish the goal of enhancing participation in qualifying coverage qualifying coverage (as so defined.)
He also cites House bill provision 401 which provides for a new section 59B (at pp. 167-168 of the Internal Revenue Code. The following information must be reported by the person providing health coverage: A. the name, address and TIN of the primary insured and the name of each other individual obtaining coverage under the policy, B. the period for which each such individual was provided with the coverage referred to in subsection (a )and (c) such other information as the Secretary may require.”
I was under the impression that everyone must file a tax return whether or not he/she owes anything to the government. Or did I misunderstand your comment?
Now, is the time to question such measures in a future hypothetical bill so our representatives know our thoughts and desires. They will be debating the several versions of the legislation when they return from recess with a better understanding of what voters want.
I will call our Senators and Representative next week and ask if the blogger’s interpretation of the passages is true or not.
Anyone who trusts our elected and appointed officials is a fool. This activity pro and con at town hall meetings as you write is a good thing. For too many years, most of us have been too lazy or preoccupied to pay attention to our representatives.
According to American Thinker blog, Party Piper is right. AP and the New York Times fact checks found Sarah Palin to be wrong about “death panels” in HR 3200. The bill doesn’t specifically name a “death panel.” However, wording, in my opinion, could be interpreted by bureaucrats to mean shifting resources from old to younger more productive citizens.
It is also true that insurance companies, hmo’s and hospitals have so called “death panels” too.
However, such a panel exists in the Stimulus Bill. Betsy McCaughey, former Lieutenant governor of New York wrote about the council’s purpose before the bill became law. Again, I will ask our representatives to be sure this is true.
I agree, we have let Congress get too powerful. A sign of that is how Obama let Congress write the versions of the health bill.
Fear of this complex bill is realistic, because it will affect all of our lives. The CBO says the plan will not save money. It will cost an unsustainable amount. Governments usually underestimate costs. Medicare, for example was supposed to cost about $90 billion by 1990, and it was closer to $120 billion. Those numbers are probably wrong, but they illustrate a difference between theory and reality.
dorian, bet you are referring to me. I asked a legitimate question, and so far no one including I can answer it. The best seems to be the French plan, but it has problems too. And you want us to hurry into territory based on hope and probably faulty assumptions? You’ve obviously never run a business or served in government.
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By: James on August 15, 2009
at 11:03 PM
AMEN.
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By: Little Merry Sunshine on August 15, 2009
at 10:50 PM
The truth is, there are a LOT of White people who cannot handle the fact that a Black man IS president. Thus the reason for all of the nonsense at the town hall meetings, and the birther foolishness. It’s just too much for a lot of White folks to accept.
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By: missincognegro on August 15, 2009
at 9:55 PM
Oh and WHO are these people in the town hall meeting?
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By: mariah on August 15, 2009
at 9:14 PM
This was brilliant, this is the only thing I have read on this topic that has held my attention. 🙂 And that’s big considering my ADD
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By: mariah on August 15, 2009
at 9:11 PM
PalinShutUp, thanks for bringing up the Whole Foods thing. As for where else to shop, I’d say most places have grown up since the influx of Whole Foods. In my area, we now have several food co-ops, farmers markets that highlight and promote locally grown, organic products as well as holistically raised & bred meats & poultry. If I want fish I have several places I can go and get fish fresh from the boat. Will I have the exotic, off season fruits? No. But I don’t need them really. Not shopping at Whole Foods means I prefer to support the small independent local business & farmer. And I like that.
UAW< you okay? That's really a rant. Not your usual grumbles. So now I'm worried. Hope the alfalfa helped.
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By: Greytdog on August 15, 2009
at 8:22 PM
I love you guys.
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By: Amelia Sprout on August 15, 2009
at 8:21 PM
Beckerwocky Backlash
Ya see…boycotts can work!
I guess racism just doesn’t sell. 😉
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 15, 2009
at 8:00 PM
Just stumble on in here, UAW. Take a load off. Tell us all how you really feel. Don’t mince words, now.
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By: Poolman on August 15, 2009
at 7:47 PM
Helen…have Harold go outside and build a campfire and then the both of you can sit around and sing Kumbayaa….
let me say that your full of shit……if you don’t fall in line and 100% agree with Obama or Nancy your a racist….WTF…..that makes John Conyers from MI. a racist…….He sponsored HR 676 and has the backing of the UAW…..and he’s black……so not agreeing with everything can’t make you a racist….but being told your a racist because you don’t like something,the wind is out of the west,the wind is out of the east, it’s raining,it’s not raining,etc can piss off some people…..and I’m one
so did you graduated from the 8th grade or did you quit in the third grade….I will agree that the Dems handling of education sucks…..and if you did graduate from the 8th grade you probably got a better education than most that are now teaching in college….
going to go drive past the fresh cut alfafa and calm down now….asshat
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By: UAW TRADESMAN on August 15, 2009
at 6:48 PM
I’m still waiting for some politician to grow a pair and point out we already have “death panels”…… they’re called the bureaucrats who may or may not be drs who decide whether or not you can have an insurance plan (not if you can pay for one) and once you have one, whether or not your care is necessary.
THAT is the death sqaud right there.
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By: PartyPiper on August 15, 2009
at 6:17 PM
“Medical records will go to the IRS, according to Legal In-sur-ect-ion.”
William A Jacobson, a Lawyer is the author of the above blog. That is one man’s opinion, James, just as opinions are expressed on this blog.
There are amendments in both health care reform bills in Congress that will be debated, discussed, removed, amended, etc. before a final bill is presented. We would wish that common sense will prevail but that may not be the case, power and money will prevail.
A good example is the “Cash for Clunkers” bill. An amendment was added that would require people to show their IRS tax return to qualify so that the Bill Gates of the world could not take advantage. However, it soon became apparent that most people applying for the “Cash for Clunkers” didn’t file income tax returns as their income was between $35-$45K. The amendment was voted out.
The above example would also apply to the majority of people without health insurance. How can the IRS tax people for health insurance who do not file? The IRS is so understaffed, It would be hard to imagine them dealing with everyone’s medical records.
William A Jacobson is throwing out another fear factor similar to the death panels. Yes, there is a definite fear factor running through our country right now. Every species has a fear factor, flight or fight. People are without jobs, health insurance, car insurance, seniors have lost their pensions, professionals such as veterinarians and real estate brokers, are declaring bankruptcy and are applying for food stamps and medicaid, homes are in foreclosure. Why wouldn’t people be scared? The flight or fight response is a real emotion not to be ignored.
Senior citizens were educated under an older system which promoted “TRUST” in your elected officials. Many people only get involved in politics every four years for a presidential election and generally do not get involved in congressional races except maybe at the local or state level. People are slowly beginning to be aware that they have a voice in our federal government. Hopefully, health care reform will be the eye opener we all need that yes, our voice and vote make a difference.
During the Bush era, Congress became very powerful. While Bush was off fighting terrorism and the axis of evil, Congress was running this country and regardless of who our president is today, they do not want to relinquish this power they have achieved.
I agree with Poolman, that the main concern at this time is election reform and education for all as to how our legislative branch actually works.
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By: Raji on August 15, 2009
at 6:16 PM
It’s greed vs. the general well-being in this 2009 race for what is health insurance reform. Who will win the ability to control how we the people of the United States of America are to be treated for any ailments we may have with this God-breathed miracle we have been given responsibility for?
Even as we walk together over this sometimes rocky path atop this very wonderful spinning orb from which we share essence and draw our breath, some would ration that air and sell it to the highest bidder. Never underestimate the ability of your fellow human being to look after himself at your expense. Greed and ownership.
These are not in line with true new testament believers. We don’t own anything. We know it will stay here when we leave. We are stewarts of His gifts. We will be judged on how we use them. Parable of the talents, anyone?
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By: Poolman on August 15, 2009
at 6:02 PM
sorry if this has already been posted but I havent had time to read all the comments
Published on Thursday, August 13, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Boycott Whole Foods by Russell Mokhiber
John Mackey is a right wing libertarian. He’s a union buster. He believes that corporations should not be criminally prosecuted for their crimes. He has just launched a campaign to defeat a single payer national health insurance system. And he’s the CEO of Whole Foods. Primo hangout of liberal Democratic yuppies. “We are all responsible for our own lives and our own health,” Mackey wrote yesterday in the Wall Street Journal. “We should take that responsibility very seriously and use our freedom to make wise lifestyle choices that will protect our health. Doing so will enrich our lives and will help create a vibrant and sustainable American society.”
Yes it will, John Mackey.
Yes it will.
I do take that responsibility very seriously.
I try to eat well.
And exercise regularly.
I also take my responsibility as a citizen seriously.
After all, Mr. Mackey, we are all responsible for our own
civic lives and our own civic health.
We should take that responsibility very seriously and use
our freedom and make wise civic and consumer choices that will protect our nation’s health. Doing so will enrich our civic lives and help create a vibrant and sustainable American society.
That’s why, today, Single Payer Action is calling on all
American citizens to boycott Whole Foods.
Why?
Because Mackey has launched a public campaign to defeat
single payer national health insurance. This despite the bottom line reality that single payer is the only way to both control health care costs and cover everyone.
As Dr. Marcia Angell says in today’s New York Times, “if you keep health care in the hands of for-profit companies, you can increase coverage by putting more money into the system, or control costs by decreasing coverage. But you cannot do both unless you change the basic structure of the system.”
Mackey leads his Wall Street Journal diatribe against national health insurance with a quote from one of his heroines –
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” And the problem with Mackey’s campaign is that it results in the deaths of 60 Americans every day due to lack of health insurance. Mackey is responsible for these deaths as much as anyone. And we are responsible for putting money into his Whole Food bank account so that he can continue his campaign without resistance.
I know that this boycott of Whole Foods will upset many liberal Democrats.
Where will they buy their organic wines?
And cheeses?
And tofu?
There are options.
Your local health food co-op.
Farmers’ markets.
Community supported agriculture.
Other corporate chains like Trader Joe’s.
So, please, join the Single Payer Action Boycott of Whole Foods.
Don’t cross the picket lines.
Don’t spend another penny at Whole Foods until John Mackey and his right wing friends are defeated.
And single payer is enacted.
Onward to single payer.
Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based
Corporate Crime Reporter.
He is also founder of singlepayeraction.org.
——————-
Here’s more on Mackey and his WSJ op-ed piece against health care reform:
http://tinyurl.com/lmgoxg
I shop at Whole Foods weekly because of the variety of health foods and the convenience, and because they are marginally cheaper than PCC, but I still spend way too much. I’ll now likely give that money to PCC, and give it happily.
I hope this hits Mackey hard where his heart is…in his wallet.
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By: PalinShutUp on August 15, 2009
at 5:57 PM
Excellent post! Right there with you all the way as always.
In my next post I am going to tell you all about another MORON, John Mackey, the CEO of Whole Foods
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By: PalinShutUp on August 15, 2009
at 5:52 PM
If conservatives had better answers then why all the BS? Given all the facts, it makes much more rational sense that a major cause of the health care crisis is a collusion between health insurance giants that borders on an illegal trust.
Take the conservatives beloved tort reform. It’s said that it would only account for 0.6% of health care costs. I’d ask the following questions, over the last 10 years, how much have:
1. medical malpractice lawsuits increased?
2. medical malpractice insurance increased?
3. health insurance profits increased?
I would think all three should jive somewhat if there was no corporate collusion, or I’d suggest collusion if these things were way out of wack, favoring the corporations.
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By: FreΔ on August 15, 2009
at 4:10 PM
right wing nuts always have a predilection for pushing tail chasing ‘discussions’ by way of asking questions that only they have the ‘correct’ answer for. we have one of those on our blog, and ignoring them works best. nice pie eating group you have here. we like cake and ice cream.
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By: dorian on August 15, 2009
at 1:56 PM
Greytdog, your response to my “simple concepts” rant sounds so!!! scary!!!But sounds so true! I heard it many times over from people being interviewed on TV in regard to the health care debate saying, “they want to take my money and give it to other people”. I always do a double take when I hear it. What other people? Do they mean aliens from Mars or beyond or their human brethren? Survival of the fittest? Sink or survive on your own? Oh my God! Too scary!
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By: Easier on August 15, 2009
at 1:48 PM
Just received a 2 page letter from my (republican) Congressman telling me why he can’t vote for the house bill. I must say, it seems as if he read my email, and tho this is probably a standard reply letter, it did address the items in my email. I was pleased to receive something, which I hadn’t with previous emails. Hope everyone else is contacting their representatives too.
PartyPiper — as a college instructor, I can tell the whiny undergrads usually on the first day. They don’t come to class, don’t turn in the work, don’t participate, and wonder why they do poorly. When I taught at community college, I actually had a mother contact the dean about her son’s grade. I explained to the dean that I would be happy to talk to the son about his grade, but not his mother. Never heard another word from either again. Not only do I teach, but I’m a full-time grad student, wife and mother, and so I also crack up when they complain about their “hard” life. They get no sympathy from me.
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By: kitkat on August 15, 2009
at 1:19 PM
And I totally agree with Harry… gifted and talented is often just “moneyed and spoiled” in many school districts. The only way to get placed is if your mommy or daddy insist to the administrator how special their little darling is.
I work full time and take classes.. and it cracks me up to see all the undergrads whine about “having” to go to class, and having several classes in one day. Umm…. yeah… class is WAY easier than going to work. Typically you just have to show up.
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By: PartyPiper on August 15, 2009
at 12:14 PM
Let Sarah keep talking. Every time she opens her mouth, stupid falls out.
I predict that Sarah will not win the GOP nomination in 2012, and that she will then run as a third party candidate, thus splitting the GOP voting base a la Ralph Nader.
I also think that someone, probably not the president, but someone is going to get hurt at one of these Town Halls.
And I’m getting damned sick of all the Blue Dogs saying we have to wait and see. Bullshit… we’re well over due for reform. Anyone ever considered that this subprime mess might have been AVERTED if people weren’t losing their shirts just to get basic care? As AmyBee said….. it isn’t like someone runs a credit check on you before you contract cancer or break a limb… but the hospital sure as shit does before they decide whether to treat you.
What we’re doing now is horrible, unconscionable and bad business. If we don’t do anything, in the next few years, the health insurance companies will need a bailout. And lord have mercy, I will go all Fight Club and shave my hair if they’re given one dime of my money.
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By: PartyPiper on August 15, 2009
at 12:11 PM
About the “failure” of education – think about this scenario: little Johnnie is in an advanced placement English course as a senior at the local high school that serves an upper middle class neighborhood…not because he belongs there but because his mommie insisted. He is in class most days but often sleeps because he’s out most of the night. He does poorly on his tests (see above). The class is assigned a 7-page term paper with a specific due date. Johnnie turns in nothing and gets an “F”. Mom shows up to beg for mercy and the administrators give him an additional week. He finally turns in 3/4 page that hs nothing to do with the topic and receives a failing grade. Mom then shows up with an attorney, asking “how’s he gonna get into (name your preferred college) with a failing grade”?
THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the problem with education today.
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By: Harry on August 15, 2009
at 11:36 AM
Poolman, thanks for the Gilliard link. I never understood why bleeding-heart liberal was a bad descriptor — to me, it means I care about what happens to other people, not just myself. Isn’t that one of those Christian values?
Just FYI: Rachel Maddow will be on Meet The Press tomorrow with Dick Armey. Should be worth watching.
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By: kitkat on August 15, 2009
at 9:59 AM
Dick Armey is a worthless creep. It is about time he got exposed.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32424387
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 15, 2009
at 9:18 AM
vky, you’re describing human nature. Some Democrats, including, I think Howard Dean spoke of “taking our country back.”
lori is right about hidden costs of medical care. However, to thrust all of the burden onto our government as HR 3200 would do would eventually make our system worse and more expensive than it is now. We have better alternatives.
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By: James on August 15, 2009
at 8:09 AM
Sarah Palin knew what she was doing when she put “death panel” in quotes. She knew such a committee was not explicitly mentioned in the House bill. It was implied, and death panel sounds scary.
The legislative wording is subject to interpretation, and combined with other provisions an overseeing committee could interpret the future law to give major resources to the most productive members of society. That would be especially true as the government tried to reduce deficites. They would in effect become a”death panel.”
Obama also unwittingly supported my conclusion. A reporter asked what would happen to her 105 year old grandmother who needed a pace maker at age 100. They had to search for a private company which would pay for it. Now, she is doing fine and is active.
Obama said the government cannot judge care on a person’s spirit. Sometimes, near the end of life we should not spend so much money and give more pain killers instead. We have seen it happen in other systems like the British.
I don’t think Palin deserves much credit for removing the offending clause. It has been discussed often at town hall meetings. I think many representatives were surprised by what they met and they will think twice about their votes after running the gauntlet this month.
I asked my representatives what I asked here. Where in the world is a system similar to the one proposed which shows long term success without large deficites. They said they will get back to me. I’ll keep asking.
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By: James on August 15, 2009
at 7:11 AM
Stacy,
HR 3200 provides for grandfathering in private health insurance customers without new customers. If a holder changes jobs or other features of the policy he/she joins the government program. Insurance companies cannot find new customers. Taxes and expenses will make it cheaper for businesses to go with the government program. I asked Senator Harkin’s Senator Grassely’s and Rep Steve King’s offices and they agreed my interpretation was correct.
Medical records will go to the IRS, according to Legal In-sur-ect-ion. According to that site, under the House version, people who do not have acceptable coverage will be taxed approximately 2.5% of AGI. A Senate version is similar thought the tax is called ‘shared responsibility payment.”
I haven’t had time to read any more bills, so I will ask my representatives if this is true.
President Obama did not write HR 3200, and one of his comments implied he didn’t know all of its contents, just as most members of the House of Representatives didn’t. He said on August 11, “I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter.”
However, according to Politifact, Obama said at other town hall meetings to folks who favored a single-payer system that if we were starting from scratch, he would favor a single-payer form of insurance. He believes it is not politically feaseable now. I can’t site the source but I watched him say on television that it would take ten or twenty years to evolve into a single payer system. That scenario fits HR 3200. A 2003 youtube video shows Obama speaking in favor of the single payer plan. Our slow dial up service won’t let us watch youtube, but I saw it on television.
In his book, “Audacity of Hope”, Obmama suggested something like the leading House version.
Politicifact.com says “Obama’s statement strikes us as too artful.” He may be evolving against a single payment plan, but I think he is trying to hide his true beliefs, in my opinion. Whatever his true beliefs, the current version of HR 3200 would evolve into a single payer system according to my representatives.
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By: James on August 15, 2009
at 6:47 AM
Azarches, first, may the white light of the holy spirit surround and protect your little one. I am sending good wishes his way for a speedy full recovery.
second, you do realize don’t you that everyone who has health insurance has paid for your son’s treatment don’t you? They didn’t treat your son out of the goodness of their heart, they treated your son because the cost of treating uninsured patients is rolled up into the cost of everyone’s hospital stay. When hospitalized “insured” people pay $10.00 for an aspirin, or a $450.00 dollar X-ray they are paying for uninsured patient care as well as their own. Uninsured patient care is one of the main reasons healthcare is so costly and is exactly why we are having this healthcare crisis to begin with.
Sixty percent of all bankruptcies in this country are due to health care bills. Who do you think ultimately pays for those?
It seems to me it’s not so much the “let them eat cake” attitude that is so harmful, it is the “have my cake and eat it too” attitude that is costing us so much.
It is time we had affordable healthcare for ALL. namaste’
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By: lori on August 15, 2009
at 6:36 AM
President Obama’s
Weekly Address 8/15/09
Real Conversations About
Health Insurance Reform
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 15, 2009
at 6:15 AM
Helen – your posts are always worth the wait, and this one was no exception.
I am loving some of newest commentors here – big props to Adrienne and AmyBee especially.
I am not loving so much some of the others. Azarches – a boat? Are you kidding? Your entire let them eat cake premise makes me twitch. But I will give you credit for being open to discussion – unlike some of the other trolls who’ve fouled the air.
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By: Imaginista on August 15, 2009
at 12:32 AM
Helen,
I am so glad that you are calling this whole “I want MY America BACK!!” crap for what it is — a coded longing for those who long for the good ol days of segregation and unabashed racism. And those morons have the audacity to call Obama the Nazi?!
Instead of screeching at town halls about urban myths that don’t exist, they need to just come clean — but that won’t happen, they’re way too chicken to stand up at those town hall meetings to declare, “I don’t like this (‘this’ being thinking of someone other than themselves) ONE bit!! Why? Because I am profoundly ignorant, deeply selfish, stupendously xenophobic, spectacularly LAZY and, by the way, pretty much a racist—especially when I don’t get my way!!!!”
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By: vky on August 15, 2009
at 12:25 AM
How are we going to pay for it explained:
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By: Poolman on August 14, 2009
at 11:22 PM
I just stumbled on your blog and you are fantastic! My favorite combination of spunk + liberal!
I’ve been trying to educate on the healthcare issue on my own blog, but I’m linking your post here as well.
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By: Angie Jackson on August 14, 2009
at 11:17 PM
Times are precarious and most of us are one accident, layoff or illness away from bankruptcy, etc.. Incidentally, I can’t really think of a time when this wasn’t true for a good portion of us – just not quite so many. The fabled “America that was” is a fable.
So what is it about the psychological differences in how we deal with this? Why do some people deal with hard times by banding together and others grab what little they have (knowing it could evaporate at any moment) and threaten anyone who comes near? They even resist those who are trying to help.
It looks like what in dog terms is called ‘fear biting’. The poor dog is defending its life against a non-existent threat, even if this means it remains in real danger from another cause. These guys are very tough to help. I’m also reminded of horses who run back into a burning stable, because it’s a familiar setting. Lethal, but familiar.
These people know the status quo is not safe for them. Why assume that change must be worse? Why not explore the various proposed bills in a calm and reasoned manner instead of screaming to keep anyone from hearing about them? “La la la, I can’t hear you”.
And why can’t we do something about the corporate interests who prey on them?
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By: judith on August 14, 2009
at 11:15 PM
As usual, you’re a breath of fresh air in an otherwise fetid cloud of ignorance and arrogance. Thanks for the great commentary and razor-sharp wit!!
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By: Suzanne on August 14, 2009
at 9:24 PM
Helen, you rock!
(You can take that ‘rock’ as a verb or a noun, by the way!)
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By: B.T. Murtagh on August 14, 2009
at 8:48 PM
Easier, we fail to grasp the simple concepts because we’re afraid someone is going to get more than we get. In a rather tilted way, the GOP anti-public option forces are advocating a premeditated evolution of the human species – survival of the fittest based on income capability to access healthcare. Who needs death panels? Can’t pony up the money at the insurance bar – tough luck. You die. And them that survives? God ordained it, ya know. Okay. rant over. Have to ice the knee and get some shut eye
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By: Greytdog on August 14, 2009
at 8:41 PM
You are a very wise woman, Helen. A very wise woman with great wit! You are a true treasure!
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By: naclu on August 14, 2009
at 8:36 PM
Thanks for the link on Steve Gilliard Poolman! He was a brave man for saying was he was saying then, in those days when “either you are with us or you are against us” was the rule. I still remember. His words still hold true today.
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By: Easier on August 14, 2009
at 8:25 PM
I’ll co sign that poolman
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By: lori on August 14, 2009
at 8:04 PM
I frequently visit Shannyn Moore’s blog, thanks to Greytdog and others who have pointed me in that direction, and wanted to pass this along from there:
“Shannyn Moore was awarded the Gilliard Grant of Merit this morning at the Netroots Nation Conference in Pittsburgh, PA. The grant was named after blogger and journalist Steve Gilliard (November 13, 1964-June 2, 2007).”
Here is an amazing piece Steve Gilliard wrote titled “I’m a Fighting Liberal”
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2003/12/im-fighting-liberal-you-know-ive.html
This piece is just as valid today as it was in 2003 when it was written.
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By: Poolman on August 14, 2009
at 7:50 PM
[…] in New Jersey seem ethical suddenly. The rest of the internet is kinda sketchy, except for Margaret and Helen. They always make sense. Well, almost always. A few weeks ago, they wouldn’t quit talking […]
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By: Universal Hygiene « Chamblee54 on August 14, 2009
at 7:42 PM
AmyBee said: “God didn’t check my credit or my ability to pay before giving my child a chronic, life-threatening disease. Diabetes didn’t ask if I had insurance. My son’s pancreas didn’t ask me if I could afford the supplies on my own before it stopped working. I wish I could take him to the doctor without worrying how much it was going to cost me. I wish I could take MYSELF to the doctor without worrying about how much it was going to cost me and whether, if I went, I’d be able to make the rent.
Well said! I sympathize. Wish people would think about how many of us get diseases we do not ask for. It is heartbreaking that we fail to understand how fate plays a big role in how our lives turn out. A family with a member born with, or suffering from a chronic illness, or with a member who later develops a life threatening illness would be financially taxed more than a family where every member is healthy, for a long time. Fate does decide that. Having a system where everybody is taken care of, to some degree, would level the playing field. The concept of insurance was a good concept until it got corrupted. I put in the pot, you put in the pot, whoever needs what is in the pot goes to the pot. How could we fail to understand such simple concepts?
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By: Easier on August 14, 2009
at 7:37 PM
[…] I remember an America where black men didn’t grow up to be President. Margaret is it just me or did combing your hair become optional when going out in public? I’ve been watching […] […]
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By: Top Posts « WordPress.com on August 14, 2009
at 6:11 PM
To all of the people who are asking for legitimate answers to their questions, you might want to try this site:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/13/health-care-reform-simple-explanation/
Politifact.com is a site that is often quoted by C-SPAN’s “Washington Journal” ~~~ one of the few TV news programs that is truly “fair and balanced.” Because the moderators interview people from the far right to the far left and everyone in between, and as they accept phone calls and emails from all sides, yet they never express a person opinion, I respect their morning programs more than most.
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By: Elynne on August 14, 2009
at 6:10 PM
Azarches…just wanted to say that I’m a school administrator and in our district the admin staff got cut by about 40% and not a single one of us is receiving a thin dime of a raise for the 2009-10 school year. The only reason that we make any more money than teachers at all is that we work a longer contract. None of our teachers lost jobs and class sizes didn’t increase at all. We work very hard to support all of our teachers and school-based staff members to work toward the goal of higher levels of achievement for all students in every subgroup. Many of us didn’t have a summer vacation at all and work late and on weekends. It’s not a job for the faint of heart and it surely would be nice if somebody would say thanks instead of getting all scrappy.
Thanks Margaret and Helen…y’all rock!
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By: Belle (from Life of a...) on August 14, 2009
at 5:27 PM
You’re a still point in a turning world, Helen. Thanks for being so reasonable and clear.
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By: Raezin on August 14, 2009
at 4:58 PM
Made my day…You are spot on as usual..Keep up the good fight….
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By: Star on August 14, 2009
at 4:54 PM
AZarches, Craig’s list for the boat. My brother sold his within hours. Nicest part – it’s free.
That $43,800 for the drug is crazy. Sounds like you are paying for all the research. Crazy. How can anyone think that is not crazy?
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By: Poolman on August 14, 2009
at 4:53 PM
Azarches, I would LOVE to be able to just “cut out” a few things and afford good health care. I really would. If it were only that easy, I’d be thrilled. My son is a diabetic. He was diagnosed at 14 months and, like your son, we had to spend days in the ICU hoping that he was going to survive the diabetic ketoacidosis, which I didn’t want to take him to the ER over, not understanding that it was DKA and BECAUSE WE COULDN’T AFFORD THE CHARGE. That’s right; I was against taking him in because we couldn’t afford the cost of the ER visit. He would have died because I was weighing the “Is he sick enough to warrant how much the ER is going to cost us?”
We spent the next five days learning how to treat this chronic condition for which there is no cure. The only treatment is daily shots of insulin. My husband’s health insurance refuses to pay for the insulin pump, which would make a 3-year-old’s life easier and allow him to attend a regular preschool. It woudl make my life easier because I’d know he was getting the absolute correct dose for what he was consuming. But, I can live with that and just give him shots 4 times daily. However, you know what else they refuse to pay for? Syringes, testing meters, test strips, alcohol swabs, ketosticks, and, if we’d pay for the pump ourselves, they refuse to pay for any of its accessories. That’s something we have to pay for out of pocket or else he cannot get them. We pay $200 a month for our insurance, plus everything else that Steven needs. Since losing my job due to not being able to find an overnight babysitter for my children and my employer not budging when they scheduled me for overnights, I wish that all I had to do to pay my medical bills was to sell a boat. We weren’t denied care, either, so Steven was taken care of. However, we’ve been turned away from one pediatric endocrinologist’s office because he had to turn us into collections when we couldn’t afford to pay him and his billing department refused to work with us for less than $200 a month.
I suppose my child deserve healthcare because WE can’t afford it. I suppose that I’m not working hard enough to be able to deserve it. I suppose, like the Victorians, you believe in the “deserving poor.” Conversely, I believe that everyone deserves to have healthcare that’s not based on their ability to pay the bills or whether they’re judged “working hard enough” or “cutting expenses well enough.”
God didn’t check my credit or my ability to pay before giving my child a chronic, life-threatening disease. Diabetes didn’t ask if I had insurance. My son’s pancreas didn’t ask me if I could afford the supplies on my own before it stopped working. I wish I could take him to the doctor without worrying how much it was going to cost me. I wish I could take MYSELF to the doctor without worrying about how much it was going to cost me and whether, if I went, I’d be able to make the rent.
I hope you sell your boat and I’m glad your son is all right. I also hope you realize how lucky you really are.
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By: Amy Bee on August 14, 2009
at 4:43 PM
Here’s a link from the White House thought some might be interested in: http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/?e=11&ref=text0
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By: kitkat on August 14, 2009
at 4:25 PM
Beautiful, as always! Thank you.
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By: alala on August 14, 2009
at 4:25 PM
OMG Poolman, you made me check my bread crumbs. Honestly, never even crossed my mind there was corn syrup in them. I try to avoid it — guess I’m making those from scratch now too.
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By: kitkat on August 14, 2009
at 4:18 PM
Oh, come on we’re Americans. Of course we are fat and lazy. We’ve been resting on our laurels for some time now. One of the reasons we rank so poorly against the rest of the world. You got to fight, for your right, to portly.
Of course look what’s in all our food. I was trying to find bread crumbs the other day without corn syrup. High fructose corn syrup. You would think bread crumbs would be safe. Not! We need much reform to get back to a healthy society.
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By: Poolman on August 14, 2009
at 4:07 PM
Helen and Margaret, you write my favorite post. I always read it, but rarely comment because you have so many followers.
I just want to say that I have been ranting on my own blog about health care reform for so long that my followers are getting sick of reading it. But no issue is more important right now than reforming a broken system that is bankrupting our country, the States, businesses and individuals. For all who are opposed to reform because they are afraid of the cost I say they are afraid of the wrong thing. They should be afraid of what happens to our country if we don’t reform this costly broken fragmented system.
Because I love your humorous style of writing I am going to put a link to this blog on my own blog. You say it so much better than I can.
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By: Darlene on August 14, 2009
at 4:00 PM
I grew up surrounded by stories about elves, dwarves, dragons, centaurs, werewolves, vampires, kzinti, rihannsu, heechee, thinking machines, walking carpets, talking trees, and telepathic mops, all of which I fully accepted as people, my ethical and moral equivalents in every way that mattered. And you honestly think my opposition to this president is driven by something as stupid and trivial as the amount of melanin in his skin?
Do you have any idea how pathetically limited-in-vision that makes you look?
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By: wolfwalker on August 14, 2009
at 3:59 PM
jsri,
Suffice to say I read the whole thing a little differently than others around here, but none of my posts were directed at you except the ones specifically addressed as such. I meant no disrespect to you.
Party,
Sean’s question had not been answered when I posted my little tantrum. The answers were held up in moderation, plus posts from different people were being typed simultaneously. When moderation catches up, and people hit Send on something they’ve been typing for a few minutes – the posts go in the order they came in. So the story reads a little differently after the fact.
IOW, you weren’t there, so shut it.
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By: Wilke on August 14, 2009
at 3:55 PM
Give peas a chance:
You miss my point. My point is we shouldn’t talk about “deserving” health care any more than we should talk about “deserving” education or food. Everyone should have that right. Money should not be the deciding factor for good health care, education or food.
And my husband is fat. 🙂
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By: Anne on August 14, 2009
at 3:38 PM
I’m sitting here trying to decide whether to go to a townhall meeting this evening where the speaker will be Tom Coburn. Ewww, I feel icky just typing his name. I just don’t know if I can stomach it. It’s red, red, red around here and I would certainly be in the minority. I don’t think I could stomach listening to that blowhard spread more fear and distortions. I’m certain those in favor of healthcare reform will not be given a chance to ask a single question and even if allowed, will be shouted down by the buffoons who don’t even understand what the hell they are protesting.
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By: chloe on August 14, 2009
at 3:36 PM
“The difference is the HR 3200 version of the health insurance bill implies an eventual government insurance monopoly ( around page 16)” —
Just had to look at page 16 as I’d looked at it before and didn’t remember this at all. Nope, still not there. Just a page of definitions.
“Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you receive”.
Page 30 talks about a committee to decide what is covered, ie, what gets paid for, not what you can or cannot receive. For example, they might decide to pay for end of life counseling, for which Medicare does not currently reimburse the doctor. Oops, probably not anymore.
“Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people.” page 354 doesn’t talk about restricting special needs enrollments in a plan, but talks about when during the year they can enroll and gives special provisions — for example, if a special need is diagnosed, they don’t have to wait till the open enrollment period to enroll.
But don’t just take my word on these things. Go look them up yourself. Here is the link I used. http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf. Please don’t just read the titles of sections. Go to each page and read for yourself. Read the page before and after to ensure you are getting the complete picture.
You can see how easily the words have been twisted in the two examples above. Critical thinking folks, that’s all we need around here.
BTW, Maji, loved your post. 🙂
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By: kitkat on August 14, 2009
at 3:31 PM
Response to Anne
“I think if anyone doesn’t deserve health care it’s people who are drink, smoke, use drugs and are fat.”
Anne, you had my support until the end.
I drink occasionally (who didn’t drink just to get through the last eight years of the Bush administration?), I also smoke but am trying to quite and I may be fat (by Hollywood standards). Your solution would disqualify about 85% of the American population. Sounds like you support health care rationing just not under the current pretext.
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By: give peas a chance on August 14, 2009
at 3:21 PM
Wilke, I believe the question was answered several times. The question asked how you would respond.
You’re like a three year old who doesn’t get the answer he/she wants and thinks that if you ask the question enough times, you’ll get the answer you DO want.
Want one of us to say that we think that the information posted was accurate, unbiased and credible? Go to a different blog.
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By: PartyPiper on August 14, 2009
at 3:20 PM
Helen – I am so glad you are back! I was wondering when you were going to post about the Town Hall crazies. You had me laughing out loud at “Universal Hygiene.” I have always believed that a sudden decline in good hygiene is a sign of mental instability. You are spot on.
I keep wondering – do these people not know the difference between a Nazi and a Socialist? How do they think someone can be both at the same time? Oh, yeah, it’s ignorance, duh.
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By: Lucy on August 14, 2009
at 3:19 PM
Stacey:
I’ve been reading your posts and am glad to see another person who is neither right or left leaning but rationally in the middle. I want health reform. Do I blindly accept whatever plan is offered? No. I think we have to look at it critically and and have a rational debate. These people screaming at town hall meetings are not doing that. I’m 34 and I worry about getting sick and going bankrupt. I don’t think my parents every had that worry. It’s just sad. No one should go bankrupt because they got sick. If we lost our health insurance, we would not be able to afford to buy something else. My husband and I both work full time but we have two kids. We don’t live extravagantly. We have a modest home (a 2 bedroom, non garage, non dining room town home), two cars we bought used and I shop as much as possible at Wal Mart. We can’t cut back much more than we already do. That’s more of a response to Azarches. He had to sell his boat to pay medical costs. We couldn’t afford a boat in a million years. I get angry with people who talk about “deserving” health care. That’s like talking about people “deserving” food or an education. I think if anyone doesn’t deserve health care it’s people who are drink, smoke, use drugs and are fat.
Sorry for my rant. This topic touches a nerve. 🙂
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By: Anne on August 14, 2009
at 3:03 PM
Just watched Obama in Montana town hall meeting and thought it was good. He did address the issues and answered the questions asked. Scared me a little when he said he’d take that one more question. I remember that same thing got him in trouble before. Not this time. It looked like a productive exchange. I’ll be anxious to get the spin from Fox.
OT. There is a group called 1,000,000 against government run Health Care on Facebook that I joined to get involved in the debate. A need has come up for a Canadian gal that has a brain tumor that needs to get to the US for an MRI and we need someone who knows how to set up a page there that we can put out to get donations for her. Any help would be appreciated. Let me know or go there:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=52751799540&topic=10226&post=40763#/group.php?gid=52751799540
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By: Poolman on August 14, 2009
at 2:46 PM
Tofu is PEOPLE !!!
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 14, 2009
at 2:41 PM
Wilke:
I have no idea what town hall meeting you are talking about. I don’t try to follow them all. I have a volunteer job that takes up most of my free time so I’m not on here every day.
I did not witness the scenario you described so I have no response because I also don’t know the context of the comment. For example, I know nothing about the age of the person or what triggered the comment.
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By: jsri on August 14, 2009
at 2:35 PM
Oh Helen, how I look forward to your posts. They are an oasis of sanity in this sea of political madness.
God Bless you always and a warm Aloha from Maui!
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By: Juan on August 14, 2009
at 2:32 PM
Wilke:
What question are you talking about? You seem to be fixated on a question that doesn’t exist or has not been asked.
BTW, It shouldn’t take more than a single visit to understand the interests and sentiments of the folks posting on this site. If you are looking for approbation or support for your point of view plenty of right wing sites are available that should satisfy you.
In truth, many people post here regularly who are more or less in alignment with your concerns. But they don’t get their shorts in a twist when someone challenges them. And they don’t ask ephemeral questions either.
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By: jsri on August 14, 2009
at 2:24 PM
jsri,
It really seemed to me that Sean came here – to this porch – for a little help. Maybe I’m being naive. I can’t read his mind.
A question for you, jsri. You don’t need to answer, but if you care to – I would like to know. And I’ll tell you my answer as well.
When you heard the man stand up at that town hall meeting and said “keep your government hands off my Medicare!” – what crossed your mind first?
I saw my father. And as embarrassed as I was, I didn’t want to yell at him. I wanted to hug him.
Sorry for the disruption folks.
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By: Wilke on August 14, 2009
at 2:24 PM
I meant rant! Need to double check my posts.
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By: Stacey on August 14, 2009
at 2:19 PM
Wow, Anne. Really great ran!
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By: Stacey on August 14, 2009
at 2:16 PM
Wilke,
President Obama answered the question in NH when he said that neither he or any other future administration would allow ‘death panel’ type judgements.
The bills being considered are rough drafts and any language which can allow such ‘death panel’ type situations will be changed.
We have 46 Million people without health insurance and that is unacceptable. There should never be a pre-condition on any policy and there must be reasonable co-pays.
I was just offered Cobra at $850.00 a month and last year it was less than $700.00. how does an unemployed person afford that. The $850.00 was just for me – a family would be more.
IT IS PAST TIME FOR A PUBLIC OPTION! The insurance companies (and Republicans) had lots of time to make the piece meal changes.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 14, 2009
at 2:15 PM
Your desire for your old ‘merica is based on fluff and mirrors…just like the ‘merica the socialists want to force on us.
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By: Steve on August 14, 2009
at 2:12 PM
Right on! You guys rock. Margaret and Helen is my new favorite blog.
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By: Distracted Housewife on August 14, 2009
at 2:12 PM
I was just writing about this on my Facebook page last night! I am so angry about these people screaming about DEATH SQUADS!! On NPR last night a guest being interviewed said that 25% of a person medical expenses occurr at the end of their life, often for expensive procedures that they don’t need, want or help them. If people had living wills ahead of time and clearly stated what they do or don’t want done on their behalf, it coudl save millions. All the bill calls for is doctors being reimbursed for the cost of have such a conversation with their patients, NO MATTER WHAT THAT PATIENT DECIDES. But now it’s become such a sticky issue they’re thinking about dropping the provision.
The other thing that infuriates me is these people screaming at these town hall meetings against government being involved in their health care, who are then asked if they like their Medicare, who say yes they do, and are then told that’s government health care, they DON’T BELIEVE IT. I mean, honestly, if you’re going to be against something, at least know what the hell you’re talking about.
I have health care. I like my health care. But I think it’s embarrasing that we’re the only industrialized nation not to provide it to our citizens. In America you’re admired for being self-made, for growing up poor and becoming rich, and if you struggle your whole life and can never get ahead, it’s your own fault. I’m tired of living in a nation where we don’t give a damn about anyone else. I’m willing to pay something every month so someone else can have health care.
If health care isn’t reformed, I’m blaming these idiots for being so stupid as to believe the likes of Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity and all the other morons on Fox News. I’m going to blame these people for only getting their news from one biased source, for believe chain emails they get, for not thinking for themselves, doing a little research, and making an informed decision. I’m going to blame them, and then I’m going to move to Canada.
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By: Anne on August 14, 2009
at 2:10 PM
Greytdog,
Sean is asking the question, not Matt Staver. If it’s not worth your time to respond, that’s fine. Discussions can be boring when you have all the answers.
Much better for all if we jockey our way around the question. Shoot the messenger. Inpune their motives. Rescue the princess.
Wouldn’t to be easier to just answer the question?
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By: Wilke on August 14, 2009
at 2:00 PM
who was it that said Sarah Palin was going to take credit for getting the “death panels” out of the bill? Nicely called – only took her about 10 minutes.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/
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By: Stacey on August 14, 2009
at 1:59 PM
Alaskan:
You nailed it. Excellent post.
Stacey: Don’t you love bumper sticker interpretations of complex issues?
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By: jsri on August 14, 2009
at 1:58 PM
Greytdog and Whirled Peas
How do you give the runaround to a “question” that is simply a nutty talking point?
That’s right. You ignore it.
Good response Greytdog. No runaround there.
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By: jsri on August 14, 2009
at 1:52 PM
“The difference is the HR 3200 version of the health insurance bill implies an eventual government insurance monopoly ( around page 16) and Obama has said it is the ultimate goal of an insurance plan.”
Can you direct me to where/when Obama said this? Because frankly I’m not really in favor of a government insuance monopoly and if Obama has said that I would like to write him and tell him I object.
I just listened to his remarks in Montana and he said just the opposite.
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By: Stacey on August 14, 2009
at 1:50 PM
In response to Sean’s questions. First of all the Liberty Council is part of the Liberty College organization and the page numbers and references that are being made are not direct line item quotes from the bill, but “interpretations” of the meaning. We all know how “interpretation” works. Look at the Bible, how many interpretations have you heard out there for that.
If you are going to ask questions and quote something, quote the actual text and not the inflammatory interpretations thereof.
I am not saying that the bill is the right choice for us now, but the protesters are protesting not in the spirit of finding the right solutions, but soley for the purpose of disrupting. The spirit of dissent at the town hall meetings is ugly and vile and I am ashamed and scared of how people are acting.
Intelligent dialogue, exchange of ideas, cooperation, that is what we need more of in this country. Not a civil war between the nut job, whacked out republicans and those not exactly like them.
I don’t want them to force me to believe just like them. I have my religious beliefs and feel I am smart enough to think for myself. My God doesn’t tell me to ram my religion down other people’s throat, but more live by example. The examples of hateful behavior right now being displayed across this country is far from Christianly.
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By: Alaskan on August 14, 2009
at 1:45 PM
Thx for the backup GD,
Wilke didn’t catch onto the fact that I was going to ignore anything that comes from a Fox regular, right-wing-nut. Must be a newbie around here.
OT ~ Our kinda Pie Chart.
😉 ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 14, 2009
at 1:36 PM
Wilke, Mat Staver isn’t asking questions in order to have a dialogue. So why should Whirled Peas or anyone else want to answer his questions? Mat Staver has already decided on the answers he accepts – and frankly, it’s not worth my time to play this game.
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By: Greytdog on August 14, 2009
at 1:23 PM
Peas,
Why don’t you just answer the man’s question? Why the runaround?
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By: Wilke on August 14, 2009
at 1:13 PM
We have a will and are doing the other stuff with advice from our lawyer. He told us to check our deeds to be sure they are worded correctly to avoid probate.
I had medical power of attorney for my parents and an aunt. It is a responsibility not to be taken lightly.
I agree, Wilke.
Stacey we shouldn’t trust corporations any more than we do the government. The difference is the HR 3200 version of the health insurance bill implies an eventual government insurance monopoly ( around page 16) and Obama has said it is the ultimate goal of an insurance plan. At that time, unlike now, there would be no recourse, and law would back the decision.
We might vote for or against the people who created the plan, but we would have little voice in the fate of the insurance plan’s managers.
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By: Anonymous on August 14, 2009
at 1:10 PM
Good post. Thanks. If Republicans would actually read articles and stop listening to Rush, O’Reilley and Palin, they’d get a better understanding of what the actual issues are. Also, I get the feeling that they are just p.o.’d that a black man is in office, no matter that he’s a million times smarter than Bush.
I love this country, and if I have to share its soil with right wing nuts spewing forth such garbage like “death panels,” so be it. They can say what they want. It’s only the dimwits who actually believe these false statements.
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By: Ken Pasco on August 14, 2009
at 1:04 PM
~ Stacey at 11:45am:
“How would I address it? Who is this Mat Staver and what is he on?”
.
.
Mathew D. Staver, Founder and Chairman of Liberty Counsel.
Mat serves as Dean of (Jerry Falwell’s) Liberty University School of Law.
(Mat) conducts hundreds of media interviews each year, including television appearances on shows such as The O’Reilly Factor, Hannity and Colmes, Anderson Cooper 360, the Glenn Beck Show, Good Morning America, the Today Show, Fox & Friends and many more.
—–
.
.
~ Wilke at 12:06pm:
“You know, it might not be a bad idea if Sean got an answer to his question. What’s the problem with answering questions calmly and straightforwardly? Too boring? Then let it pass and maybe someone else will be willing to give it a shot.
Maybe that’s what everyone should be doing instead of shooting every messenger on sight and then complaining about the questions.”
.
.
Don’t shoot the messenger,
just Google his talking points.
Then decide if you should
answer, challenge or ignore.
PEACE ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 14, 2009
at 1:00 PM
I love to come here and get a dose of common sense. I go to church with some die hard repubs and if I hear one more time how we will all be smarter if we all listened to Rush, I will go postal.. it won’t be pretty. Do you go postal in church..or would it be churchal??
Anyway, keep it up. I am an avid reader and fan from CA
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By: Pam P on August 14, 2009
at 12:39 PM
Helen,
I appreciate your humor, common sense and ability to get to the heart of any matter.
Mary Ann
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By: Mary Ann on August 14, 2009
at 12:13 PM
You know, it might not be a bad idea if Sean got an answer to his question. What’s the problem with answering questions calmly and straightforwardly? Too boring? Then let it pass and maybe someone else will be willing to give it a shot.
Maybe that’s what everyone should be doing instead of shooting every messenger on sight and then complaining about the questions.
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By: Wilke on August 14, 2009
at 12:06 PM
“Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you receive”
Well, right now there is a beaurocrat at the insurance company who decides the same thing. And has a huge motivation to say “no”
In either case I guess I have the choice to appeal and/or pay out of pocket.
But I really don’t get why we would trust corporations more than the goverment that we VOTE for – it baffles.
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By: Stacey on August 14, 2009
at 11:52 AM
By: Sean on August 14, 2009
at 11:36 AM
You quote from “The Freedom Foundation and Liberty Counsel:
You might get some attention if you could find more independent sources than offshoots of the Moral Majority?
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By: jsri on August 14, 2009
at 11:51 AM
Dear Margaret and Helen,
Have you thought about publishing your blog into a book?
I know I would enjoy reading a compilation, and methinks with a little publicity, it could be a huge deal.
You have enormous talent!
Fav line from this post: ‘…unless the feeding tube is large enough to fit a piece of pie….’
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By: Molly on August 14, 2009
at 11:50 AM
I got this information from the other site (FB-1,000,000 against government health care) that I have been debating on, regarding the “death panel”:
“The death panel former Governor Palin refers to is the 27 member appointed panel that will make the practical decisions regarding extent of care. President Obama’s public health braintrust including Dr. Emanuel will likely have significant influence on those appointees and therefore his views on how care should be distributed are particularly germane.”
So apparently it is not referring to the end of life counseling that is now out anyway. I wonder if there will be anything left of the bill after all is said and done.
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By: Poolman on August 14, 2009
at 11:46 AM
How would I address it? Who is this Mat Staver and what is he on?
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By: Stacey on August 14, 2009
at 11:45 AM
When I was growing up during the Great Depression, the idea of health insurance didn’t even exist. It is mostly a post-WWII phenomenon. But the reasons for its later creation can be traced back to the events of the 1930’s. And I don’t have to look beyond my own family for an example.
In 1933, in a case of what would be known now as “a fit of depression” my grandmother (my mother’s mother) one day decided not to get out of bed. And for the next six years that is where she stayed. As her muscles atrophied, it became no longer a case of would she get out of bed because after the first few months it was no longer a possibility. It now became a family issue as all of her six children took over her care. But as the Great Depression lingered on, they each had their own families to care for.
The only solution was for granddad to sell off the family farm to pay for her care. This left him destitute as the meager proceeds from the sale of the farm quickly disappeared and he now had to shuttle between the families of his sons and daughters until he died of a stroke in 1939, just after grandmother passed away. About the only thing he had left were the clothes he was wearing.
Is this the sort of system the protesters want to return to? I don’t think they really know what the possibilities are.
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By: jsri on August 14, 2009
at 11:44 AM
Lots of opinion stated. How would you address a brief outline of this health care bill for Obama put together by Mat Staver of the Freedom Foundation and Liberty Counsel:
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you receive.
Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people.
Pg 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Gov’t determines how your life will end.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt (not doctors or family) will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life
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By: Sean on August 14, 2009
at 11:36 AM
jsri – Yeah, it should be entertaining. Honestly I think it would probably be a good trade-off if dropping that provision would quiet down the nut-jobs, but I’m sure they will just find some other fantasy to get worked up about. Some people are just determined to be against everything Obama stands for.
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By: Stacey on August 14, 2009
at 11:30 AM
Margaret and Helen: I wish that I could know both of you IRL. I love your writing, and agree with your thoughts.
Where I live, I am surrounded by Obama-hating nutcakes, and some of them are people that I have been friends with for 10 to 30 years. Until Obama became President, I had no idea how much hatred they harbored, or how much irrationality they could be swayed to believe.
My social life isn’t quite the same anymore, because I just can’t stand to spend too much time with ranters and ravers, and that’s what some of them have become ~~~ all in the name of “I have always been a Republican, and always will be.”
When did being a Republican mean turning your back on common sense and believing in the far-fetched lies, no matter how many times the truth is told to you?
i must say that there is a bright spot in my life: my Mom (88) and my Dad (91) both voted for Obama, and they have considered themselves to be Republicans since they moved to Smalltown, Illinois in 1950. Thank God, because you can’t imagine how many arguments I had with them over Nixon back in the ’70s! LOL
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By: Elynne on August 14, 2009
at 11:28 AM
This morning’s newspaper announced that the Senate Bill has decided to remove the advance care planning consultations from its health care bill.
Now that the wimps in thr Senate have caved to the wingnuts we can look forward to the next couple years with Caribou Barbie touting endlessly her ability to defeat the “Death Panels”
I foresee a whole political platform built around this fiction.
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By: jsri on August 14, 2009
at 11:15 AM
[…] August 14, 2009 · Leave a Comment Some times no one says it better than Helen. […]
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By: “By the looks of the American citizenry turning out for these town hall meetings, we’re doing a fine job of killing ourselves with fast food, cigarettes and an overindulgence of ignorance.” « girl du jour on August 14, 2009
at 9:49 AM
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your insightful, sane take on this latest mess was well worth waiting for.
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By: Sharon 39 on August 14, 2009
at 9:42 AM
Margaret and Helen, thank you for the antidote to the ignorance and stupidity I have been seeing, hearing, and about which I have been reading over the past weeks. Our Founding Fathers would be spinning in their graves if they knew what these imbeciles were spewing in their names.
Some of the whining is about racism, but I think more of it is from people who are afraid that someone else is getting something for nothing. Even here, I see comments made by self-righteous people like “AZarches”, who lectures others to give up “lattes, late-model cars and trips to the tanning booth.” Well, guess what, Archie, I don’t drink lattes, my car is 13 years old, and my tan comes from working out in the hot sun every day. I don’t even own a cell phone, and my house is nowhere near 3500 square feet. I’m in a temp job after getting laid off two years ago. Temp jobs don’t carry health insurance, and I don’t get paid enough to afford it. Forget going to the doctor. I don’t get paid enough to afford it. This “I got mine, screw you!” mentality is getting really tiresome.
I used to say that I wouldn’t wish what I have been enduring on anyone. But now, I wish that these screamers and sanctimonious finger-waggers could have a taste of what I and others are going through. Maybe then they will come to their senses, although somehow, I doubt that even that would make a difference.
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By: Adrienne on August 14, 2009
at 9:40 AM
You two are a breath of fresh air. As a 20 something who is working in the trenches and in a state that isn’t faring too well economically (Michigan). I must say that you have given me the courage to say what needs to be said and the inspiration to help make changes in a world that needs it so badly.
Thank you for doing what you do…whether people agree, disagree, or don’t even care, you care enough to share your voice and make a difference.
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By: criticalconflict on August 14, 2009
at 9:27 AM
PS to Ennealogic: love your blog. always have.
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By: Greytdog on August 14, 2009
at 9:20 AM
Ennealogic: Ask yourself this: Who is it, exactly, that benefits if a person’s end-of-life preferences are unknown? Without clear directives, care continues indefinitely, no matter the cost and no matter the prognosis. Who benefits from that?
********
Ever since the Schiavo fiasco in FL, I think most Floridians are conscious about the importance of end of life declarations. Some folks want an all hands on deck approach while others want all hands off approach. If your final directives spell that out, the medical personnel will make sure your wishes are followed. Without final directives, medical personnel are bound to provide care – and without final directives, as the Schiavo case showed, stopping care is harder than not initiating it. I had one doctor removed from my father’s care because he did not agree with my dad’s living will and while I respect his right to disagree, I didn’t trust him to follow my father’s directives. Removing him from the case was easier for him and for our family. My own medical surrogates and I have had long discussions about my final directives and I know they will step in to ensure a death with dignity for me. And that is the crux, for me, of end-of-life counseling – how do we achieve, each of us, a death with dignity? And that is something that we ultimately, must decide – a decision illuminated by medical knowledge & how we define life fully lived.
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By: Greytdog on August 14, 2009
at 9:19 AM
Since women are 52% of the population, I long for an America that will elect a woman president.
That’s beginning to look like a more difficult task than electing a black man president. Wonder why?
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By: Kathleen Wynne on August 14, 2009
at 9:16 AM
I just want to point out that there are lots of people disagreeing here without anyone calling anyone else a Nazi (okay, maybe those posts got deleted).
I really wish the people yelling at the meetings would shut up and let the grown-ups talk. Maybe then we’d get somewhere.
I’m actually not sure that most of us are that far apart – most of us realize that the current system is just not going to work. And since it clearly doesn’t work to shame the insurance companies into behaving better (we’ve tried that) the only option is government getting involved somehow. I wish I could see more discussion on exactly how and less scare tactics.
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By: Stacey on August 14, 2009
at 9:02 AM
I think we might be doing a disservice to Gayle and others by not listening to them when they say they are scared. I recall a study some months ago, the result of the study was some infants are more fearful even at birth, the study concluded such infants as adults are conservative. If those results are correct, then our tendency towards conservatism or liberalism is innate and therefore seemingly outside of our conscious control. Is it possible, when they say they want their America back, they really want to be protected from certain harsh realities just as they were as children? For the most part we on the liberal end of the spectrum see change as an opportunity and they see dire consequences, in fact some of them think the only answer to the world’s problems is “the rapture.” Can anyone think of a way or ways to give them more confidence in human intelligence and compassion, if not this generation, the next?
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By: Anonymous on August 14, 2009
at 8:49 AM
Helen, I’m posting this to my facebook page and sending this to all my friends. You are so incredible!
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By: Trina C on August 14, 2009
at 8:38 AM
Yes…you guys put the nail in the coffin on this one…”This has become less an argument about healthcare reform and more a statement about our failed education system.” The US educational system has and is currently failing with leaps and bounds.
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By: Joe on August 14, 2009
at 8:27 AM
I’d like to see an America where young people don’t go to school to be doctors and lawyers because those are the most highly paid professions. It used to be that doctoring and lawyering were great ways to be of service to your neighbors. Now they are just great ways to get rich.
I’d like to see an America where “health care” isn’t a huge industry thoroughly invaded by and enmeshed with all kinds of for-profit corporations.
Ask yourself this: Who is it, exactly, that benefits if a person’s end-of-life preferences are unknown? Without clear directives, care continues indefinitely, no matter the cost and no matter the prognosis. Who benefits from that?
The people who incite the town hall screamers are the ones opposed to reform because they make money off of sick and dying people. There is one other group too — the “don’t-unplug-Terry-Schiavo” crowd. These folks could care less about us dying with dignity and with a dime still in our pockets. All they care about is finding ways to force their subjective religiosity on us.
Helen, I love your post. Except I really don’t want to have to go to a beauty parlor every week. I can wash and brush my own hair just fine. 🙂
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By: Ennealogic on August 14, 2009
at 8:22 AM
Gayle, were you living in America from January 20, 2001-January 20, 2009? And if so, why weren’t you afraid when:
*the POTUS unnecessarily decided to invade a country to the tune of $12 billion/mo? The CBO estimated the invasion’s costs would be $1 trillion. Forget that. Surprise, surprise, it’s way over this amount.
*the government began listening in on our phone calls and reading our emails? Yes, yours too.
*the past administration cooked up justifications for rendition and torturing anyone and everyone they thought posed a threat?
*the top 1-2% of the population got extremely rich while the average person’s income remained stagnant?
*the past administration politicized the DOJ?
*the CIA was allowed to lie to Congress and the American people?
*the previous administration burned through the surplus President Clinton left?
*the government gave no bid contracts to companies like Halliburton with no strings attached?
*the government allowed its’ representatives in Iraq to pass paper bags full of our money to corrupt Iraqi & American personnel?
*billions were spent in Iraq with no real improvement in the lives of the Iraqi citizens, and infrastructure projects still not completed after pouring billions into Iraq?
*Xe smuggled illegal weapons into Iraq and went on its’ own mission to rid the world of “ragheads”
Face it. President Obama is far from perfect, but is a major improvement over GWB and Cheney who abused their offices and corrupted this country all because of Cheney’s penchant for developing his “unitary executive theory. The UE theory is not a part of the Constitution.
The problems we have now are directly attributable to the last administration. In fact, there was an excellent article in The Daily Beast that stated that the Republican Party cannot expect to regain prominence UNTIL it acknowledges that it did a lousy job under GWB.
For you to just now wake up and be afraid of all the spending reveals something about you that I will leave to you to figure out.
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By: maji on August 14, 2009
at 8:13 AM
And you knew where you were then
Girls were girls and men were men
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again…
Didn’t need no welfare state
Everybody pulled their weight
Gee, that old LaSalle ran great…
Those were the days.
/stifle yerself, Edith
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By: cousinavi on August 14, 2009
at 8:07 AM
To those saying the members of Congress have not read the bills, think again. How is it possible to sit on a commitee, craft a bill, and not know what is in it? This is so obviously a blatant lie. The republicans on these committees know what is is these bills. All one has to do is watch CSPAN to see that they are at the negotiating table when these bills are crafted. One must really be gullible to believe that someone who was there and gave input on crafting the bill doesn’t know what’s in it. All of the senators and representatives have aides that sit in on these committee meetings and give daily reports to them on what goes on in the committees that they are not a part of. MSN.com has a link to an article on that discusses the purpose of the lies and obfuscations being used by some of the conservatives and republicans to scare people. The Washington Monthly had an article earlier this week that stated that if no attempt is made to rein in healthcare costs, in 10 years the average family will be paying @ 20,000/year for hc, with fewer benefits. I agree with a previous post that there is no final hc reform bill at this time because one is still in the Senate finance committee. There is still a lot to be done. In both houses of Congress, the separate forms of the bill have to be reconciled into one, then voted on. Then you have the conference committee which is made up of members from both houses. They have to come up with a final bill, then both houses have to vote on the bill that comes out of conference committee. Finally, if either house changes it, the process begins all over AGAIN. As a retired social studies teacher who taught for 33 years I have noticed that many people in America, even in Congress, do not understand what is in the Constitution, the laws of America, or how the American political system works.
As for those concerned about hc reform paying for abortions, forget it. The Hyde Amendment forbids the U.S. government from paying for abortions with public monies.
As for the president not reading the bills, I beg to differ. He knows what is in the proposed bills, otherwise how could he speak to those issues in townhalls without using a teleprompter? LOL. In fact, an article on the Washington Monthly web site contains information and comments from some in the media who thinks the president “goes into the weeds” when he gives details and explanations about healthcare reform. They don’t want him to come across as knowing what he is talking about, and I can understand why they feel this way after the limited ability of the last president to discuss any topic with facility. Too bad. I like a chief executive who is well-versed in a variety of areas/topics.
Nothing is so embarrassing to me as seeing Americans demonstrate at a national and international level their ignorance of American laws, history, and political science.
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By: maji on August 14, 2009
at 7:49 AM
Helen, I couldn’t love you more. My dad has a feeding tube now (cancer, pfui) and I think he would prefer a very dry gin martini on the other end…
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By: Harry on August 14, 2009
at 7:42 AM
Greytdog, now there you go again being logical. Not to mention having the audacity to actually read Zeke’s paper! Geeze what nerve! 😉
As M&H (and their readers) are astute enough to understand, our opponents don’t WANT to debate on merit, they know they would lose. Their plan is to throw as much crap into the public conversation as they can, no matter how batshit crazy it is, so we spend all of our time and MONEY defending the ridiculous claims… And right on cue we progressives’ are complying by trying to be “reasonable”. I am THRILLED at the direction my party has taken in the last day or two… I hope all the talking heads get the memo. we need to get on message and stay there.. or else we will have wasted all the hard work that has elevated us to power…..I am dusting off my shoulders and moving on with the business of real change… namaste’
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By: lori on August 14, 2009
at 7:38 AM
Marcus from UK here – your blog is excellent! Just like to add that you should ignore any UK politicians or pundits who rubbish our National Health Service – the vast majority here support our universal health care, which is free at the point of delivery. The vast majority don’t pay for health insurance [but you can if you want extra cover]. UK ranked way above USA in UN health stats AND you pay more per head for health than we do – IT’S A NO-BRAINER!!
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By: marcusajohn on August 14, 2009
at 7:37 AM
Pie. Yes, Margaret and Helen. I agree with the pie idea. Raspberry pie. Like my grandmother made.
As a retired teacher, I am wondering a bit about the educational background of the senior citizens going berserk at these town hall meetings. They were supposed to have been the recipients of the educational system back in the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s at the latest. Back then, education was supposed to be excellent. I am now really, really doubting it. Plus, is a really good education all that much of a bulwark against the most amazing narcissistic manipulation? Hey, look at all the people who were taken by Bernie Madoff!
I’m just sayin’ . . .
On my way to my own town hall meeting today. Taking a copy of one of the proposed bills with me. Knowing my Congressman I am expecting a very tightly run ship (he was in the Navy). Its his meeting and he has the right to set all the perameters. Tell ya all about it later!
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on August 14, 2009
at 7:19 AM
Hello Helen, the fine folks at FDL sent me here and I am glad they did.
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By: ron and debbie webber on August 14, 2009
at 7:04 AM
[…] post he takes issue with is this one, in which #1 Dinosaur quotes this post favorably: [A]ll of them are asking for their America back. I wonder which America that would […]
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By: One Stack Mind » Blog Archive » Prehistoric Moonbat on August 14, 2009
at 7:01 AM
Sorry I have to laugh whenever I read any post that cites Zeke Emmanuel – bioethics is a very specialized field of medical philosophy and Zeke writes in that field. He is also a doctor – and so he faces bioethical paradigms everyday. I’m sure if anyone went through my academic work they’d find things that would make them believe I supported totalitarianism or anarchy. Zeke looked at a premise and then very diligently & logically set out to create a thesis, antithesis, before arriving at synthesis. It’s a well written paper and one that addresses a very real question: when medical resources (in this case, human organs) are scarce, what are the parameters for deciding who should receive those organs? This question is often asked by all ethicists, even in Ethics 101: when resources are scarce, who should have access to those resources? If food is scarce & you have to decide who eats or doesn’t, who would you choose? A 90 yr old grandmother or a 5 year old child? Yes, our human nature says split the difference, but what if you’re in charge of rebuilding society? What if you don’t have enough food for everyone? Who’s life would you choose? And trust me, as we outgrow this little planet, those questions will arise more & more. Zeke’s paper was addressing a semi-hypothetical, but in a real world situation. Personally speaking as someone who chose to remove myself from the heart transplant list, I understand the paradigm. As an academic ethicist, I also understand the logical & philosophical arguments. And as a person of faith, I understand that, for me, the best use of resources & time is to ensure that someone still looking towards life has that chance.
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By: Greytdog on August 14, 2009
at 6:34 AM
this health care stuff absolutely boggles me. some of you seem to realize how incredibly fortunate you would be to have a healthcare system in the u.s. like we have here in canada. some of you would rather rant and rave and trust corporations more than your government. bizarre!
good luck to you all. i wish for my neighbours what we call ‘universal’ healthcare.
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By: snee on August 14, 2009
at 4:35 AM
Hello babies !
http://allainjulesblog.blogspot.com/
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By: Parallax on August 14, 2009
at 4:13 AM
Another hit out of the ball park Helen!
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By: troutay on August 14, 2009
at 3:42 AM
Oh, my. Didn’t see Gayle earlier.
Questions for you Gayle:
What color was Bush for ya? Did he scare you at all?
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 14, 2009
at 2:55 AM
Hi Jean and Gang! And THANK YOU Helen for another fine post. Your posts are always thought provoking, and with a sense of humor.
Just picked up a sheet of stamps from our local Federal post office (I do believe I am getting a FANTASTIC bargain when I can mail a flat rate priority box to West Virginia for $10.35). It was commemorating those black and white tv shows of the 50’s and 60’s. I Love Lucy, Lassie, Perry Mason, Hopalong Cassidy, Ozzie and Harriet, etc. Definitely weekly beauty shop visits. No bra straps showing, no reality dumb dumbs.
There are parts of those old days I wish we still had. People wearing their best to church or when going out. Sanctity of marriage. Respect for elders. Growing up safe – like Opie in the Andy Griffith Show.
It was an era of a lot of rather intelligent decent people who seemed to have morals and decency. It was a great time…. if you were white.
It’s a different time now. It would have been unimaginable then, but today, a Black man is the President of the United States.
I applaud Margaret, Helen, Jean, jsri et al of that generation who have the humanity and wisdom to rejoice in the change that has and is a-coming.
Good grooming will return as a fashion cycle – one can hope.
Asshats can blow up – I can hope.
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By: Honolulu Sally on August 14, 2009
at 2:51 AM
You are kidding, right? You (and those like you,…how’s that for racisim) don’t see a black president. In fact, I don’t see color. What I see is a man that is doing what he wants when he wants and he scares the hell out of me. I could care less if he was magenta. He’d still scare me. You all can’t admit that maybe you stood behind something that was wrong. When he screws us up more than he already has by putting out country so far in debt it will be easy to take us over…we’ll talk. And honestly, if you have to resort to Palin-bashing that just means your man is getting weaker.
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By: Gayle on August 14, 2009
at 2:39 AM
As always, another winner. Over here in Thailand we may be a day ahead, but I always seem to be a day or two late reading new blog posts and discussion. Like so many, I definately want Helen’ts feeding tube restriction in my living will. Pie to the end is a good motto to have.
I’m lucky to be in Thailand where I can get first-rate care for small pocket change. I don’t have to worry that an illness will break the bank. As a retired health care professional (Microbiologist) I weep to think about the deterioration of primary medical care in the US. Thank you Helen for your wonderful take on the current reform issue.
It’s mango season here in Thailand, so now I think I should go bake a mango pie.
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By: Cat Nesbit on August 14, 2009
at 1:58 AM
Hi gang,
I posted this yesterday, but I see a lot of new faces today, so I am repeating it.
My timetable for being unavailable got bumped up to early October because of our predicted but turned out to be non-event hurricane.
So in the interim, I’ve got a proposition for ya, folks. THERE IS NO HEALTH CARE BILL – – YET. The house more or less came up with a PROPOSED bill as did the senate. But neither bears even the remotest resemblance to what will eventually wind up as a bill on the president’s desk to be signed into LAW (or not).
I think it would be useful to know IN DETAIL the EXACT steps required for an idea, if you will, or a concept to be debated and make it through the various committees of both houses of congress; then voted upon by each house. Next the various joint committees’ debates to submit for votes on approval by both houses. THEN – – THERE MAY BE A HEALTH CARE BILL for the president to sign or veto.
Here’s my proposition. Research and document your SOURCES on the steps, the EXACT committees and members thereof, (numbers of democrats and republicans, no need to name names). In short, detail how a bill comes into being from inception to law. OK?
I think it would be interesting to see the various interpretations of the same ‘facts of procedures’ from different people here on the blog. The more people who participate, the merrier!
Now I am really, truly outta here until early October. Have fun, everyone.
Aloha! 🙂
Jean
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By: Jean on August 14, 2009
at 12:49 AM
Dear, dear Helen,
I’m so glad you are back! It starts to get boring around here until you come up with a wonderful new post and stir things up again.
As for the feeding tube, I am an old broad as well as a grandma. Make mine White Zin with a spike of morphine as indicated.
Seriously, the comments here today have been well spoken and thought provoking. May I add mine?
Several weeks ago I posted about our sessions with a lawyer updating our wills, trust, and end of life directives in accordance with some minor new laws in our state. These items are spelled out in great legalese detail so there can be no question of what my husband’s and my wishes are. Why did we do it? Because we feel it is our responsibility, not our sons and their families. It has nothing to do with money. When the time comes, they don’t need to carry around a guilt trip for the rest of their lives about whether they did the right thing if they know they are respecting OUR wishes.
If people don’t know what is involved in end of life issues, there is nothing wrong with a counseling session to learn about them. It should be available to anyone. They don’t have to take any advice if they don’t want to.
I do appreciate the comments from all our friends here. I am learning what people are up against with insurance and horrendous health costs. That is not right in the wealthest country in the world.
Aloha! 🙂
Jean
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By: Jean on August 14, 2009
at 12:28 AM
I love how the media people say they wouldn’t want a Canadian type of health care system; I have friends in Thunder Bay, who would high tail it back home if they got sick in the US. I have health insurance, through my husbands job, that costs us almost a thou a month, yet a high deductible means that we have insurance yet no health care. We wanted to drop our insurance, and just pay for our medical care out of our pockets, which is what we do anyway, but employer would not let us do that. What a wonderful system we have!
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By: geezer mom on August 13, 2009
at 11:28 PM
I think the quitter from Alaska and that crazy lady at the mccain rally set the tone these empty heads. One for hate and other for grooming.
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By: Ashkee Colorado on August 13, 2009
at 10:45 PM
Very nice post!
Living here in Tokyo, I sometimes forget just how many stupid, irrational people there are back home there in the good old US of A.
Thanks for being a voice of reason and highlighting the ridiculousness in an entertaining fashion.
Cheers!
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By: billywest on August 13, 2009
at 10:30 PM
Ah, once again, you nailed it, Helen. Thanks!
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By: cmac on August 13, 2009
at 10:27 PM
Azarches wrote:
I look at the Social Security system and how I have been paying into that government run program and will never see any of that money.
I responded:
I remember my parents saying exactly that same thing when I was growing up. They’ve been collecting it for 12 years now and Social Security is still doing just fine.
I would assert the reason your parents are collecting Social Security would be deficit spending driving up the national debt.
Yup. Just as it’s been doing since 1935. And while we should be most certainly keep an eye on its financial health, I reiterate, 25 years ago my parents were convinced they’d never see a dime of it. And yet they’ve been collecting on it for 12 years and counting now.
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By: scott (the other one) on August 13, 2009
at 10:22 PM
The point is that they are expressing their concerns and getting answers. It is not the answer they want but they are getting answers. They are not listening.
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By: cowgirl on August 13, 2009
at 10:16 PM
Helen,
As much as you suggest this is common sense, I would like to also point out a few other common sense items.
When the money gets tight, and it will, healthcare will start being rationed. It is THAT “time of emergency” that people are concerned about Gandma’s plug being pulled. For validation of that, please look at the chart from Ezekiel Emanuel regarding how those very young and those more mature will have their health care “attenuated”. it is on page 428 of http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf.
I don’t want to have to hear my father or mother be denied a hip replacement, because they are no longer seen to be contributing members of society, based upon their age. President Obama stated that if his grandmother was denied such care, he would pay for it out of his own pocket. Well, bully for him! I don’t have that much money just laying around.
As much as I agree, our current system is messed up, I disagree that this plan is the best way to handle it.
Also, common sense SHOULD dictate that if this is such a great plan, then why is it that the Senate and Congress BOTH refuse to be utilize it, themselves?
If we, as Americans, wants to return to all the GOOD things of the past then we need to hold our representatives accountable. They, like us, are “just people”, too. And as such, they shodul be required to pay taxes, live by the same laws and die, just like the rest of us.
Daniel
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By: Pagan Blacksmith on August 13, 2009
at 10:11 PM
…and the sorry state of the mainstream faux news media. TvNewsLIES.org tries to counter that vacuum. Understand that I would NOT like the insurance companies or big pharma running the educational system either. As it is, the individual states determine their own curricula and teaching standards. A single payer ed system might do the trick…:-)
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By: Reg on August 13, 2009
at 10:04 PM
” Are you people honestly that stupid? ”
You hit the nail right on the head … but sadly Helen, yes they are. What else would explain the ridiculous rumors, outrageous behavior and lack of common sense? It’s sad and frightening.
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By: Sue on August 13, 2009
at 9:51 PM
Keep it up Helen, keep it up. Keep implying that those against this health bill are racists. Don’t bother to address their concerns and worries just keep calling them names, insult their intelligence, and associating them with the KKK, and we will all watch the presidential approval rating go from 47%-37% who knows just how far it will fall. Maybe it will go below the approval rating of the Democrat controlled Congress.
If this is really a statement about the sorry state of the education system, remember who runs the education system. And you want the same people running your health care?
Also Lincoln was a Republican, and the KKK (Senator Robert Byrd) were and still are Southern Democrats.
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By: neoconnut on August 13, 2009
at 9:34 PM
judith sez: “My favorite so far is “the dog tangoed with a raccoon”
“I’d’ve paid to see that.”
LOVE it.
Although I’m not a HUGE fan of Michael Moore (more because of style than of content), there are some really good points in his docu “Sicko.” And somewhere in there he talks to Tony Benn, a progressive old former member of Britain’s Parliament who says (I transcribed it):
“If you go back, it all began with democracy. Before we had the vote, all the power was in the hands of rich people. If you had money you could get health care, education, look after yourself when you were old. And what democracy did was to give the poor the vote, and it moved power from the market place to the polling station, from the wallet to the ballot.
“And what people said was very simple — they said “in the 1930s we had mass unemployment but we don’t have unemployment during the war. If you can have full employment by killing Germans, why can’t we have full employment by building hospitals, building schools, recruiting nurses, recruiting teachrs? If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people.” “
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 9:23 PM
I just now found you and your blog. Thanks for saying what I couldn’t get put down and might be afraid to say as myself.
I really don’t want to go to the beauty parlor once a week but my hair still looks nice, is that OK?
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By: TC on August 13, 2009
at 9:22 PM
I’ve been reading a TON of posts, blogs, news articles, and what-not on this very subject. But, nowhere have I seen more common sense. Thank you ladies for ALWAYS posting the obvious with level heads and humor!!!
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By: claire on August 13, 2009
at 9:19 PM
Kellabeck sez “And the GOP doesn’t care how much they hurt this country. They’re destructive in power and out.”
THIS is something that’s been boggling me. England has something described as “the loyal opposition” — we have the nasty destructive opposition (and I’m not saying the Dems are never this way, either). It’s more important to those not in power to try to weasel and cheat and bluster and lie their way BACK into power than it is to help heal the wounds this country has suffered.
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 9:02 PM
Oh, thank God. Today was Trying To Get Me from beginning to end and I barely made it home disaster-free. So what do I find when I sit down at the computer? A new post, and a great one, at that.
Yep, it’s the moneyed interests playing anybody who will listen. And there’s plenty who will listen. Fear of the unknown, a desperate need for someone to blame, and wanting to feel that there was ever a time when it was all right and that we can get back there again.
Shall we have my father’s America back? He was told from high school that if he worked hard and kept his nose clean, he’d have the same job for life and retire with a good pension and all his bills paid. Of course, that never happened. Standard white middle-class male – he did make it to middle class before it all started falling apart. But he was lied to – the society had changed even before he left the Army after the war. Laid off for being over 40, tried various self-employments, but no pension, and no insurance. The nursing home has what little he had left. He can go to the VA if someone can drive him there (and thank God for them, but it’s two hours away). Let me point out – progressives were not responsible for any of this.
How about the America Reagan remembered fondly? I believe the quote ran something very close to “We never had a problem with blacks when I was growing up, because they knew their place”. Of course, if they didn’t, there was always a group of vigilantes to remind them. Actually, to remind other people. The offenders didn’t survive to remember anything.
I’m listening to NPR whenever I’m in the car. I’m very disappointed in the moderators and the progressive commentators for letting the conservative commentators get by with coded insinuations.
One was talking about the End-Of-Life counseling and kept saying that he wouldn’t have a problem with it if it weren’t for the provision that the doctors had to report back on their success. Excuse me, their success? No one is pushing one resolution or the other. You don’t get a prize for getting someone to choose a Do Not Resuscitate order. Nobody called him on this.
Currently, if you want to talk to someone with medical knowledge about what you need to know to plan how you end up, you do it on your own nickel. Likely if you’ve gotten to the age where you’re thinking about this, nickels are at a premium. So the discussion doesn’t take place. This is what we want in a society?
Another ‘expert’ said that the way to reduce health care costs was through tort reform, not insurance reform. Oh, good – when my insurance company denies me coverage or treatment, I can’t even have legal recourse. This doesn’t reduce health care costs, this enables them to reduce coverage even further. You’re worried about the government between you and your doctor? Try reading your policy. Talk about rationing. They’re in the business of collecting the maximum premiums and paying out the least benefits.
I miss an America where we can have discussions. We have some here and it’s great. But it works like this – you make a statement or ask a question. You get a response. Maybe you have a followup. You get a response. But at some time, you have to let the next person have a turn, whether you agree with them or not. When people show up at a meeting with the intended purpose of making sure nobody else’s point gets heard, they’ve crossed a line. That’s un-American.
And don’t get me started on literacy. I’m constantly editing computer appointments at the vet clinic before they get finalized into the record. My favorite so far is “the dog tangoed with a raccoon”
I’d’ve paid to see that.
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By: judith on August 13, 2009
at 8:57 PM
jsri sez: “I wish everyone could have coverage similar to ours. In fact I would be willing to contribute more if I thought that would happen. But I fear it never will. People do not want to pay into something they do not see as benefiting them immediately. There is too much feeling of “what’s in it for me” and not enough of “what’s best for the good of all of us.” ”
How true! And they’re saying “Why should *I* have to pay for somebody else?!?” So sad. I am so lucky to have had the coverage, through my old job and retirement from it, that has kept me from having to worry about anything — at least so far — and I think it’s so wrong that everybody doesn’t have that peace of mind. There’s ENOUGH to worry about in this life…….
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 8:41 PM
I loved your post Helen! I just adored how it made me laugh and got my husband to come around asking about what was up? So I made him read the post. He said, this is good, she is funny! Yes, I like the cloak of funny on serious subjects. It is such a gift you have!
I just do not know how to explain it. But the hopefulness of the past few months has been replaced by doldrum. It is like a certain segment of our society is so unhappy about Obama being president that they are poisoning the atmosphere and spreading their unhappiness. All the things being said about this health care reform are just so out there, it is not possible to be that ignorant. This subject is just being used as a pretext to express the unhappiness of living in a country where a black man is president. It is just so sad when one thinks about it. Well said Helen.
If I were asked to contribute more of my earnings so that my neighbor could have decent health care, I would. And if I were to be asked how my taxes should be spent, I do know what I would say. I don’t want them used on war machines. JSRI said it all in his post, when we pay for insurance, sometimes we use it and sometimes, we do not. But my neighbor benefiting from my contributions to the pool definitely adds to the common good, something insurance companies are quickly forgetting. Kellabeck, loved your post also. Thanks all.
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By: Easier on August 13, 2009
at 8:26 PM
Helen this is so true. Someone asked me today if I was going to go to the townhall meeting here. I told them NO! If the people who showed up could carry on a civil debate instead of screaming and if they had 2 people on the issue, one for one against, then I would have loved to go.
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By: marilyn on August 13, 2009
at 8:15 PM
I thought I got this link from someone here, but I can’t find it posted. This is a good solution oriented interview with Kaiser Permanente CEO George Halvorson about health-care reform. Click on the link for the full interview for a 24 minute podcast. Well worth it, IMO.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/07/28/pm-kaiser-q/
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By: Poolman on August 13, 2009
at 8:04 PM
Sadly, these idiots at the town hall meetings don’t realize that they are doing the work of the lobbyists. They think they are part of some grassroots group but they are really being recruited by the very organizations that they hate–lobbyists. A little reading would do these folks a lot of good.
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By: Jessica on August 13, 2009
at 7:07 PM
So when everyone’s crying over losing gramma and little Trig…
What about the folks who die NOW because their insurance won’t cover x,y or z treatment, or because they couldn’t make it to the “right,” not closest emergency room?
I was uninsured once. I had a kidney infection, an I waited ALL weekend to go to the low cost clinic because I was terrified that if I went to the hospital I would be admitted, and I didn’t have the money. It was one miserable weekend, I medicated myself with whatever the frat boys had around and alkaseltzer, and I stumbled into the clinic and barfed in an exam room. I could barely stand up. If I had insurance, I probably WOULD have been admitted. I was sick for two solid weeks. Thank god I was younger and sassy… but… looking back? I could have DIED… and in fact, a few weeks later, had another infection (then covered by student health plan), and that lack of insurance, for that one time? I’m CONVINCED it caused the 10(!!!) kidney infections and the multiple UTIs that insued, not to mention the expensive tests to figure out why (because I fugged up my pisser.. that’s why) and the surgery to correct it.
So…. if we had had government healthcare, that’s $5000 I wouldn’t have had to spend in drugs, uncovered doctor’s visits, covered drugs, trips to ERs in other area codes when I was out of town, surgeries, missed work…… and probably closer to 100K all told that insurance companies and my grandma spent (and don’t tell me about my grandma… I’m making good and damned sure she NEVER goes without medical care, thank you very much).
How is it again that we’re worried about WASTING money? We’re friggin’ wasting money NOW!!!! If I had been able to see a doctor that FIRST TIME, it would have cost under 1K to get some Cipro, maybe some pain meds if they were feeling generous and a follow up visit.
But nah… OBVIOUSLY it’s cheaper doing it this way.
And Trig will NEVER have to go through that, because he comes from a wealthy family.
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By: PartyPiper on August 13, 2009
at 7:04 PM
Great job Helen. I’ve been away for a few days and am so happy to see a new post.
I think much of this is being ignorant and too lazy to get informed as well as fear of change — a bad combination. IMO we should be ashamed as a nation that we do not provide health insurance to our citizens — all our citizens — as well as the fact that we educate our children so poorly. My husband is English and their system is so much more comprehensive. Their high school grads equal our college grads. But, they don’t spend all their money on sports teams. (Yes, I do think sports are good, but am not sure our education dollars should pay for them). Our priorities are all screwed up in this country.
Azarches, you said “If you want health coverage from a big name company cut something else out in your life. ” It is definitely not that simplistic for most Americans. You make it sound like we drink a few lattes while driving late-model cars to the tanning booth. When my husband got laid off 2 years ago, the COBRA bill was $1500 a month, so what do I cut out to cover that? My husband still has not been able to find full time work. He works 3 part time jobs, I’m in graduate school and work as a TA/instructor, we have cut out every possible extra there is and yet it’s still a struggle. If we couldn’t get health insurance through my school, we would be in huge trouble. My biggest fear right now is that next year when I graduate, we will lose our insurance and not be able to afford any coverage due to our pre-existing conditions.
The question shouldn’t be ‘how can government run this?”. Everyone has commented on what the government is capable of running. The question should be “How can we continue to let the for-profit companies screw us out of every last dollar while they profit on our ill-health?”.
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By: kitkat on August 13, 2009
at 6:57 PM
Hi ladies,
Well you certainly got my just-turned 20 year old daughter’s knickers in a knot – until I explained the context for your post and how to interpret your comments. But man, was she ever steamed. In fact her post never made it to being published, being deleted due to certain expletive deletives! But you sure got some good viewership.
And, oh yeah, from a mid 50s old fart, I agree with your premise. Rock on, ladies. Love ya!
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By: Jim Taggart on August 13, 2009
at 6:45 PM
I love you!
Having survived a major health catastrophe in America without health insurance, where no doctor would see me or hospital let me in the door, I can’t believe the nonsense these ignoramuses are promulgating about health reform. It is needed! Wait until these people are in agony and can’t get care under the present system – they’ll change their tune.
And poster Lightpond? Might be a good idea for you to research the electoral college system and how it works. I knew the educational system was pretty bad when I left America to live overseas, but it’s obviously become even worse, if such a thing is possible.
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By: TF on August 13, 2009
at 6:44 PM
Great discussion.
And thank you avotresant for this gem: “When my son was in 4th grade, he brought home a note from his teacher that said his work was unexceptable.”
My dad didn’t make a lot of money. In my youth I sort of thought he did because he had a college education and wore a tie to work. But mostly I thought he did because he sent his five children to private school. I hated it at times that he chose to spend all that money on my tuition. I begged to go to public school. I watched my public school friends get Schwinn bikes and Levi jeans while I rode a no name hand me down embarrassment of a bike and got new shoes once a year. To this day I have an obsession with nice socks and I’m sure it has something to do with seeing my mom with my sock stretched over a lightbulb while she stitched up the toe.
My mom drove me and my siblings to and from school every day because we lived too close to get bussed and too far to walk. I was curious about the classes my public school friends “got to take” like “home ec” and “shop,” and I was green with envy of their gigantic pool. My school didn’t have a pool. We didn’t even have a decent gym. We did have music classes, but nothing like my friends had with all those fabulous instruments to choose from. Music class at my school consisted of a record player with a crackly speaker and we sang along to records from the library. My dad drove me to guitar lessons every Saturday because I won the reward for being the first to pluck my way through the intro book on the cheap Sears guitar that was under the tree one year with the name “Kids” on it. I remember one of my public school friends telling me that a guitar wasn’t a real instrument. Well, what did I know?
Every once in a while I get overwhelmed thinking about the choices and the sacrifices my parents made for me. They should not have had to go without. I’d like to see the outstanding administration that was the hallmark of the school that I went to running the public education system.
I have a college degree and am currently working on my masters, and have a full time job which pays most of my health insurance premiums as part of my compensation package. My parents didn’t pay for my college education. I did. I paid off the rather large balance on my student loans 10 years ago with a signing bonus for a job that took me 2000 miles away from my parents. I pay for my classes now by teaching at night so my tuition is waived. If my class doesn’t fill up, I’m able to submit my tuition for reimbursement through my employer. I’m very lucky.
In the nearly 20 years since earning my undergraduate degree I have been laid off, had the company I work for close, moved 2000 miles across the country to accept a job, and but for a short time directly after college have never been without health insurance. I know that I would hate to be. My sister gets up every morning at 6am to go to work and her health insurance premiums are mostly paid by her employer. She has been through enough operations and procedures in her lifetime to exceed what she and I and probably my parents as well have collectively paid in insurance premiums. If she were to lose her job, I do not want her to be without insurance. She has enough to deal with.
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By: Tryptic on August 13, 2009
at 6:07 PM
you hit it right on the nose, Helen.
the mob is really a bunch of people with a common hidden denominator : they do not like the president and what he stands for, and whatever it is this president puts forth, they will oppose. there is no listening with the mob. they have made up their minds. the puppet handlers are having an easy time feeding more fear into these people. hitler loved the gullibles too. i thought at last, america has gotten back the world’s respect. there’s some ugly pictures going around now and they are in awe of the ignorance in this country. the majority of the mob doesn’t even understand what socialism or communism is all about, yet they shout those words. what do they think medicare is?? i’ll take your america, Helen. men shooting quail and women going to the beauty parlor once a week. now we have mobs that want to bring back the witch trials.
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By: dorian on August 13, 2009
at 6:00 PM
Hey, check this out! Lord, help us.
Palin SAYS she worries about the big, bad, Obama government killing off her elderly parents and her Down’s Syndrome child…Blah, blah, blah….
******************************************
http://gov.state.ak.us/archive.php?id=1094&type=6
WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions.
WHEREAS, in Alaska, Alaska Statute 13.52 provides the specifics of the advance directives law and offers a model form for patient use.
WHEREAS, it is estimated that only about 20 percent of people in Alaska have executed an advance directive. Moreover, it is estimated that less than 50 percent of severely or terminally ill patients have an advance directive.
WHEREAS, it is likely that a significant reason for these low percentages is that there is both a lack of knowledge and considerable confusion in the public about Advance Directives.
WHEREAS, one of the principal goals of Healthcare Decisions Day is to encourage hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, continuing care retirement communities, and hospices to participate in a statewide effort to provide clear and consistent information to the public about advance directives, as well as to encourage medical professionals and lawyers to volunteer their time and efforts to improve public knowledge and increase the number of Alaska’s citizens with advance directives.
WHEREAS, the Foundation for End of Life Care in Juneau, Alaska, and other organizations throughout the United States have endorsed this event and are committed to educating the public about the importance of discussing healthcare choices and executing advance directives.
WHEREAS, as a result of April 16, 2008, being recognized as Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska, more citizens will have conversations about their healthcare decisions; more citizens will execute advance directives to make their wishes known; and fewer families and healthcare providers will have to struggle with making difficult healthcare decisions in the absence of guidance from the patient.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, Sarah Palin, Governor of the state of Alaska, do hereby proclaim April 16, 2008, as:
Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska, and I call this observance to the attention of all our citizens.
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By: elsie09 on August 13, 2009
at 5:36 PM
End of Life Directives:
My mother had an end of life directive and she stated her wishes to a sister and I. (We spent the most time with her the last 6 months.)
At the end, a brother and another sister came into the picture and would not allow the Dr to follow the directive. (Big Bro threatened a law suit.)
My mother hang on for another 3 weeks with extraordinary care and medical support.
I was very upset with my brother for his bully tactics until his death. My Big Bro was a conservative Republican by the way. He had been married 5 times but he made it a point to tell me how to live my life.
Even if you have a end of life proclamation on record, it can be over ridden with threats of a law suit by family members.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 13, 2009
at 5:10 PM
jsri, not only is a living will essential, but designation of medical surrogate, power of atty, PLUS a detailed final directive (not all living will forms cover final directives). I am my mom’s medical surrogate so have a copy of all legal papers – my SO & a good friend of ours who is an oncology RN are my designated medical surrogates. My primary care provider has copies BUT because this is FL I also paid to have all documents legally filed.
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By: Greytdog on August 13, 2009
at 4:52 PM
CRFlats on August 13, 2009
at 4:02 PM
I have seen something similar within my own family as well as friend’s families and it is precisely why my wife and I are putting all this information into legal documents. In fact, I had my annual medical checkup yesterday and our family physician is now in the loop too. She will get a copy of all the documents for her records.
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By: jsri on August 13, 2009
at 4:32 PM
Collectively. my wife and I accumulated more than 85 years of work experience before we retired. Every year we paid our income taxes on time and for most of that time also contributed to Social Security. And when Medicare came along in the 1960’s that added to our contributions. Also, beginning in the mid 60’s we began paying for private health insurance, each of us having separate policies to supplement our employee’s plans that we also paid a part of. All these payments reduced our incomes significantly but after a brief period of adjustment we simply learned to live decently and less extravagantly. We quit buying new cars every few years and bought a home that was modest but more than adequate. After we retired, we operated a small business for several years and our employees were paid well and had health insurance as part of their employment package. But the local employment picture took a nosedive during the early Reagan years and we sold off the business after the new owners promised to keep the employees. That promise lasted less than six months.
The real point of this story is that over the years, we spent a small fortune in medical insurance that we never once tapped. That is, until about 10 years ago when I had a bypass operation and then again about 7 years ago when my wife’s cancer treatments began. Since then, our medical bills have been impressive, but to date have not yet exceeded the amount of money we paid into insurance even without factoring in the cost of inflation. Do we feel entitled? Not really. Grateful perhaps is a better description.
I bought my first auto insurance policy in 1949 and have been insured by the same company ever since. During that time I have never had a claim except for a rock through the windshield about 30 years ago. Car insurance is costly but I would never consider driving without it. And I do not resent the fact that I paid tens of thousands of dollars in premiums during that time because I know that a single accident could wipe us out completely.
I feel the same way about health insurance. I wish everyone could have coverage similar to ours. In fact I would be willing to contribute more if I thought that would happen. But I fear it never will. People do not want to pay into something they do not see as benefiting them immediately. There is too much feeling of “what’s in it for me” and not enough of “what’s best for the good of all of us.”
The former seems to be the new “American way”.
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By: jsri on August 13, 2009
at 4:21 PM
My 83 year old friend is receiving so called “end of life counseling from his doctor. He is very happy that his doctor is “on board” with his wishes. My own father did not receive that kind of care and understanding, and his last 2 weeks were conducted against his wishes, and we had to witness his slow painful death. His last words to me were “no matter what I did in this world, no one should have to go out like this”. I lived with a great deal of guilt over those last days. His doctors told him, at 87 yrs. old that he could “beat this”, and led him down a path of medical hell in a hospital bed, instead of at home with medications that could have allowed him comfort and care by those who loved him. We are not talking here about medical practice, we are talking about something as natural as birth…we are talking about death with dignity. For those dying, as well as those left behind, that what was done was in the best wishes of the loved one at the time of the end of life. We make pre-natal decisions about our health care with consultation of our doctors. It just makes sense to make end of life decisions with our doctor that really includes our wishes, not those exclusively of the doctor.
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By: CRFlats on August 13, 2009
at 4:02 PM
And Azarches, I am SO glad your boy will make a full recovery, I can’t begin to imagine how worried you are and were.
It’s awful that ANY parent should have to go through that — and NO parent should have to worry about paying so their child may live.
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 3:59 PM
“What I am saying is I get tired of hearing “Well I deserve it because so-and-so has it” If you want health coverage from a big name company cut something else out in your life. Get rid of the two brand new cars or the 3500 square foot house and get insurance. Eliminate the $120/month “all you can talk on the cell phone plan” and cut back to a minimum plan. Not everyone fits the description I know”
Damn straight. Most of the people I know live in smaller older (not valuable antique) houses and drive their cars until they HAVE to be replaced — we’re talking 6 / 8 / 10 years or so — and have the bare minimum cell-plans if they have cell phones at all. Few have fancy cable plans (I don’t have TV, but that’s a preference). Some are LUCKY enough to work or have worked for an employer who covers them, but read that blog post please. That guy has a modest house, very modest car (bought very used), rides his bike a lot. We should not have to scrimp to be healthy.
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 3:55 PM
Did you hear about the “little old lady” who told our Prez
“Keep the government out of my Medicare!” How do you talk rationally to people like this?
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By: Over 70 and Counting on August 13, 2009
at 3:52 PM
Whirled — yep, that one came out around, I dunno, 3 years ago? Five?
I’ll admit to tightening up the “…Conservative” one, it was pretty sloppy.
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 3:47 PM
Hi Susan in CT – 2:17pm
I don’t know who wrote your “I Am An American Conservative” but I did find this:
A Day in the Life of Joe
Middle-Class-Republican
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 13, 2009
at 3:42 PM
I’ll bake you a pie Helen!! What kind do you want? C’mon over and I’ll even give you a pedicure while it bakes. I love you that much.
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By: Taint E Z on August 13, 2009
at 3:38 PM
Azarches you will be pleased to know that Baucus has Fauc’d us & bailed with Palin. The Senate Finance Committee has removed the end-of-life-counseling proviso from its bill.
You can go celebrate now.
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By: Greytdog on August 13, 2009
at 3:37 PM
“I fear that the America they want back is the one where black men don’t become President.”
My fear was that this is true…and I really didn’t want to admit it to myself that racism was so widely held. I don’t know if these folks have taken the time for true introspection to look at their own, down to the root, reason for their fears. It is an irrational fear to fear another’s color, and no one wants to admit to irrational behavior or beliefs.
Once again, Helen, you are an oasis of rational thinking and plain speaking.
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By: CRFlats on August 13, 2009
at 3:23 PM
My dear dear ladies. I adore your spunk and the way you tel it like it is.
I do wish you posted daily, but I understand, I can’t post daily either.
I want chocolate fudge cake with a fudge icing sliding down my feeding tube with a side of vanilla ice cream.
WHERE in the hell do these people come from. I remember when Reagan was gov of Cal and he closed the mental institutions. Are these idiots the offspring of these loonies? My sister, two of my nephews are on this bandwagon to LooonieTown. I agree with several of the others that you two should be on the Rachel Maddow Show. God knows we need intelligent sounding people to get on TV and radio. Did you see the Abrams woman on Hardball last night.
She was the one talking about wanting her country back and asked
Spector if he would take our country back to what the Founding Fathers intended and to get us back to our constitution. When interviewed by Donnelly (sp) she sounded like a high school cheer leader and had no idea of what was really going on.
Anyway, kudos to you both. Love you.
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By: Zane on August 13, 2009
at 3:14 PM
And its a reasonable question. I guess you have had a much better personal experience with insurance companies than I have, because I frankly don’t see how government could do a whole lot worse. And its not like we are out there chosing it in a free market – our companies chose it and then pay us less in order to give us insurance – pretty much the same thing.
And one thing people aren’t really discussing is the “good of society” question. That’s another thing I think of. Am I better off if all the people around me are getting decent health care in the same way I’m better off if they are getting a decent education? Regardless of whether or not people are “entitled’ is it better for society as a whole to have chronic conditions treated before they become acute and cost a lot more? I have a son with asthma. As much as I bitch about my insurance if I didn’t have it I’m not sure I could afford the $10K in medications he takes every year. And he would wind up the emergency room and cost all of us more. I’m quite sure that’s going on in uninsured families all over the country.
but now I’m rambling, sorry.
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 3:04 PM
If you go back top where some of these probllllllems originated, you willlfind a repug.
Thank you Helen and aoo you poosters wh o have put so many of my thoughts in writing much better than I.
BAck when I went to school, we learned grammar, spelling etc. Some trolllll questioned a long while ago that these ladies couldn’ possibly b e their age and write so well.
They had some very good teachers.
I found it most interesting that my SO of 22 years who was a devout repug, and Limbaugh fan and Fox news was only too happy to acept pMedicare, medi-cal, numerous calls to Paramedics and help with prescriptions. And now his cremains are interred in a VEterans cemetary for free. Good th ing he passed away 3 years ago or there would have been seroius tropuble in the househ old.
And now Californiasillustrious Gov is making cuts in education – again. Iiiii guess his children are benefiting from private schools.
Again many thanks Helen for putting my thoughts into words.
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By: Grandma Katie on August 13, 2009
at 3:02 PM
Health care is available just like the roads and police. If you have an extra $3 you can take a toll road to save time. Shouldn’t all roads and bridges be free so just in case I bought a grande tall instead of making my coffee at home I could still use the bridge?
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By: Azarches on August 13, 2009
at 3:00 PM
Stacey –
1- Of course I wouldn’t give up roads and such and as you said, nothing is perfect.
2 – I have seen big corporations at work and the difference is, they aren’t taking my money without my consent. If I buy their product, that is an exchange for goods or services. Corporations are not the same as government since corporations can go bankrupt and go out of business, unless they have enough political friends to get them bailouts. =)
I’m not saying all government programs are crap or don’t work I am only questioning if we should be giving the government that kind of control.
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By: Azarches on August 13, 2009
at 2:56 PM
avotresante – That is correct and I am doing what I can one day at a time, one person at a time.
Susan in CT – Well as a matter of fact, my son contracted Botulism Type B at 11 days old. We spent the next 18 days in pediatric ICU not knowing if he would live, or even what was wrong with him. Now he is three months old and doing well in therapy and will make a full recovery. Now, we have a little over $400k in medical bills and guess what, WE WEREN’T DENIED HELP! We went to the hospital and they did everything they could. Turns out there is an immunoglobin(sp.) for Botulism however it was $43,800 for the little vial. I have the receipt for that one.
What I am saying is I get tired of hearing “Well I deserve it because so-and-so has it” If you want health coverage from a big name company cut something else out in your life. Get rid of the two brand new cars or the 3500 square foot house and get insurance. Eliminate the $120/month “all you can talk on the cell phone plan” and cut back to a minimum plan. Not everyone fits the description I know and there are some who just simply can not afford the premiums. Others chose not to.
Now I am wishing I had bought insurance instead of a boat but hey, that’s life, and I am responsible for the decision I made. Bottom line is just because you don’t have insurance doesn’t mean you die. Now we are working with the hospital and doctors, since they are separate, to make some kind of payment plan.
The real bummer of it all, I was $1200 away from being debt free excluding my house. Now, the boat is for sale if anyone is interested.
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By: Azarches on August 13, 2009
at 2:50 PM
Oh and Susan, spot on. I think that is what some people don’t see. That many of us believe that health care is more like roads or police. It should be there when everyone needs it. And clearly there are some who don’t agree with that. That its more like a new shirt – if you can afford it you get it. If not, you wear the old one.
Stacey
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 2:50 PM
I agree there are probably some inefficiencies in the DOT. Heck all you have to do is drive through a construction zone to see that. and yes, pretty much every government program could do a better job. But does that automatically follow that means that universal health care (or any other “new” program is a bad idea? I have 2 points to that:
1. Would you give up public roads because they aren’t perfect? Same with police and the military. We should try to make them as good as possible not give up on them. And if they don’t completely screw it up in congress I think goverment health care could look much the same way – have some flaws but be overall a good thing.
2. Have you dealt with a big corporation lately? See any inefficinecies there? I’ve worked for a large corporation for the last 16 years – they’ve turned a profit for the last 16 years. A sucess to everyone’s eyes, but do they do some stupid things? Every freakin’ day. And have you dealt with the insuance companies? Twice my insurance company has sent me or one of my kids to the emergency room to the tune of $1000 for non-emergency visits rather than pay for a simple doctor visit because the only doctor available was out of network. Seems pretty inefficient to me.
So I just take issue with the idea that because government programs could be better that they are complete crap. We don’t hold private industry to that same standard.
But I do wish the idiots that are yelling in the town hall meetings would shut up and let the grown-ups talk.
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 2:47 PM
A government Program that works:
The road system: Eisenhower insisted upon a road system. As a young officer, it took 40 days to get from coast to coast in a military convoy. He changed that.
Military, Police and Fire:
I know of places where people have to pay for fire:
Houses have burned down because they chose not to join the local fire co-op.
WE NEED HEALTH INSURANCE FOR ALL PEOPLE WITH NO PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS and reasonable co-pays. I also like the end of life counselling as part of the package.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 13, 2009
at 2:43 PM
“I pay my bills, live within my means, and if I can’t afford to buy it, I don’t DESERVE IT!”
Really? So good health has to be DESERVED? What if you lost your job and have run out of the COBRA coverage? You can’t afford health care, so you must not DESERVE it?
Here’s an interesting blog post by a very smart blogger. He got a good education (I suspect via scholarships, his family wasn’t rich), he’s worked all his life, he has a college-age son, he was the one moderate-to-left voice on a CT talk radio station when he was “laid off” last December (all the right-wingers were kept on), and he’s worried:
http://blogs.courant.com/colin_mcenroe_to_wit/2009/08/can-we-all-get-along.html
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 2:30 PM
Helen, as always, your words glow with the
brilliant light of truth.
Loved the feeding tube idea; ice cream would work for me. The idea of Universal Hygiene made me spit my coffee. Don’t we all know someone who could benefit from that?!
Azarches, the trouble is we put our confidence in PEOPLE who are supposed to do their jobs; whether it’s in the schools, or in Congress, or other government jobs. The “Government” is people. We’re the ones who don’t demand accountability from them, so we’re the ones who are ultimately responsible for what we get. If you think something needs changing, then do something to change it.
I think Georgia is the poster state for failed education. Georgia consistently ranks 49th in SAT scores. When my son was in 4th grade, he brought home a note from his teacher that said his work was unexceptable. We have a representative running for Governor who says the health care in the US is the “envy of the world.” I couldn’t get the teacher fired, but I’m doing everything I can to educate my neighbors and acquaintences on healthcare facts.
Keith, when you find your island, I’ll be there in half an hour for a long rest.
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By: avotresante Δ on August 13, 2009
at 2:29 PM
Thank God you weighed in on this, it’s first sane thing I’ve seen on the topic to date!
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By: Heather on August 13, 2009
at 2:23 PM
Excellent post dear lady. You are correct in stating that fear never produces anything worthwhile. It seems to me that the GOP has spent many, many years striking fear into the hearts of their followers (i.e., terrorist strikes) and they have really gotten them worked into a frenzy over the healthcare issue. So irresponsible. I see these terrified people on tv and am amazed that they are so rabid, so hateful, so gullible. I would bet most of them have not conducted their own research into the dems plan and are simply relying on the talking heads (Beck, Limbaugh, etc) and repeating the ridiculous talking points being spoon fed to them. I sincerely hope these issues can be resolved without anyone getting hurt or killed.
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By: chloe on August 13, 2009
at 2:23 PM
As far as government working or not, yep, there are big gaps in some places, and too-small ones in others. But for an idea of some of the successes, go to the comments for the last post where I forwarded “I Am An American Conservative.” I don’t know who wrote it, but it kind of nails it — it’s in the comments for “The President Acted Stupidly,” on August 9 at 10:02am.
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 2:17 PM
=) Scott (the other one). That is funny. I would assert the reason your parents are collecting Social Security would be deficit spending driving up the national debt.
There is a lot of waste in the DOT as well. In AZ, I met a man who is on the roadways committee for the state. The projected highway commuter numbers are from 15 years ago. That is why they build a highway and then immediately go back literally months later and start widening it. It would seem in a manner to save money, complete the job as you go along.
I am VERY fond of the military too. I didn’t have an opportunity to serve but I do what I can for the service members I meet and know. If you love this country, Hug an enlisted. They are the true Defenders of Liberty.
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By: Azarches on August 13, 2009
at 2:11 PM
So true and I hope your words will travel and do some good.
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By: Celeste on August 13, 2009
at 2:11 PM
Yay Margaret and Helen! Thanks as always!
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By: Susan in CT on August 13, 2009
at 2:10 PM
Azarches also wrote:
What I am getting at I guess is what government program has worked?
Social Security. 🙂
I’m also fond of the interstate highway system. And our military.
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By: scott (the other one) on August 13, 2009
at 1:58 PM
Azarches wrote:
I look at the Social Security system and how I have been paying into that government run program and will never see any of that money.
I remember my parents saying exactly that same thing when I was growing up. They’ve been collecting it for 12 years now and Social Security is still doing just fine.
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By: scott (the other one) on August 13, 2009
at 1:56 PM
Oh, and I couldn’t agree with you more about teachers and law enforcement not getting paid enough. I just don’t think cutting those programs is the answer. And amongst some there seems to be a twisted logic that if we cut education it will perform better. There ain’t nothin’ left to cut.
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 1:48 PM
Helen, thank you for the post. You always have a down-to-earth view that is well appreciated. And the humor is the icing on the cake. Or whipped cream on the pie, I supposed. 😀
I have been so involved in this health care debate that I have not been keeping up on all the things piling up on my desk. I have been all over the internet reading all the sources I can, watching everyone’s links and participating in the debate whenever I feel compelled to intercede. I must say, it is a very hot topic.
I can see all sides, and I can sympathize with many. I don’t think this is cut and dry. I don’t know what the best solution is, I must admit. I do admire our president and feel he is sincere, but I do not have confidence in our government to serve in our best interests. I can see the valid point of those asking us to fix Medicaid first, before we thrust essentially the same program on the rest of us.
I feel that it is time to clean house in our government. Shine a light in all the dark corners, and take back this country. It is our right. It does not represent us well and most would prefer to circumvent it to get things done. Government is extremely inefficient and has really given us less freedom and protection of rights over time. It is time for reform. I would rather see reform of this government right now than merely healthcare reform. I do not believe we can truly have healthcare reform until we reform our government.
We need to force term limits on these career politicians and eliminate the lobbies that shape our laws. Big business runs this country. Special interests are king. Money and bribes have eroded our liberties. We can’t think for ourselves and have to stay on our guard 24/7. It is very hard to pursue happiness under these conditions.
Those that are intentionally lying to us and getting people riled up need to be called out. Those paid to sway our opinions, one way or another, are the lowest of the low, IMO. We should NOT need lawyers to interpret our basic legislation, nor craft our bills with such garbage english that they are needed to explain them to us. We are all being duped and played for fools.
If we could accomplish the daunting task of real reform, we could all concentrate on improving our lives and the lives of others. In this way, we would once again be a beacon to the world, rather than a blowtorch.
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By: Poolman on August 13, 2009
at 1:48 PM
You made my morning H&M! You are exactly right… THEIR AMERICA = White men in power. The deathers, tea baggers, birthers, have one common hat… errr,,,, hood….?
Thanks for calling em out!
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By: lori on August 13, 2009
at 1:44 PM
I appoligize that I totally misread you Azarches. I think reasonable people can have disagreements about how “big” goverment should be – where it should be involved and where not. You are clearly reasonable. 😉
And I do think there is a danger of screwing up health care reforming. I think they are probably doing way too much too fast. But I don’t want the perfect to be the enemy of the good. I don’t think doing NOTHING is going to be good. At a minimum we need to reign in the insurance companies that wait for you to get seriously ill and then find an excuse to kick people off the roles. And I think we need to find a way to pool the small business and the unemployed so that they can get good insurance for a reasonable price.
But all this logic is getting lost amongst the idiots shouting “get goverment hands off my medicare”
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 1:43 PM
To Anonymous – what’s up with that comment- no one is making you read this blog!
You are way out-numbered here and rudeness is not appreciated!
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By: Betty on August 13, 2009
at 1:43 PM
I understand. I wasn’t in the public system at that time so I couldn’t make the assertion.
Those are interesting examples you have given, and they do work reasonably well except it still seems like there is more waste then good in DOT and law enforcement. I can tell you this much, like teachers, police officers don’t get paid NEAR enough for the job they do and risk they assume.
The military is an excellent example of what I am worried about. We know what happened when President Bush had control of the military. They went in a steamrolled a country took out a vicious dictator all in the name of freedom. How do we know that President Obama wont do the equivalent to your hospital or doctor or personal health. Then when the power is, if it should come to pass, wielded by another GOP president, what could be in store?
I am not an anti-government wacko, I just don’t believe it is smart for anyone to allow other men to control their destiny, or life.
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By: Azarches on August 13, 2009
at 1:27 PM
Yet again hitting the nail on the head. Very nice.
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By: Timothy on August 13, 2009
at 1:25 PM
Brilliant, as always!
These Town Halls bring a touch of scary realism to the hilarity of Jay Leno’s JayWalking segments. You thought those people just couldn’t be that stupid? The woman, asked how many stars on Old Glory, who replies, “It’s moving too fast to count them.”
But then you find out that 12% of the Cons in North Carolina think that Hawaii isn’t part of the US or else they aren’t sure.
So when you wonder who is it who voted for 43, who are the ones who admire a dim bulb like Sarah Palin, you know. They are our fellow citizens.
They are ignorant and white. And angry and vocal. And for every adjective on their moronic signs, substitute the word “black.” Because that’s their problem with our very smart president. He’s black. And they can’t get over it.
They are being used by a cynical political party in the service of a greedy businesses who have no interest in the health of the American public despite their names.
And the GOP doesn’t care how much they hurt this country. They’re destructive in power and out.
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By: kellabeck on August 13, 2009
at 1:18 PM
And honestly I can respect the anti-big goverment types if they also disagree with some of the stuff Bush did – its the double standard that bothers me.
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 1:11 PM
YOU DISGUST ME:)
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By: Anonymous on August 13, 2009
at 1:09 PM
Oh, and the military – that’s another goverment program that works well when its aimed at the right thing.
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 1:07 PM
Uh, roads, police, national parks. They may not be perfect, but they are goverment programs that work pretty darn well. And my point was that public education worked pretty darn well in most the country too, until the mid-eighties.
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 1:06 PM
I swear– Larry King should interview you two!
I love you!
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By: Joanna Jenkins on August 13, 2009
at 1:05 PM
I agree Stacey, thank you for making my point. Why do we put our hope in the government to “fix” everything? The school system only came to mind because the more I researched public schools for my daughter to enter kindergarten, I found them all lacking. Not so much in the teachers I spoke with but in the system. Many of the teachers seemed to feel the same regarding administrators getting raises and bonuses while they were out of paper and crayons. These are their words.
What I am getting at I guess is what government program has worked? It would seem that churches were able to do more, at least in my area, to feed and shelter homeless, until the local government started getting involved and made it very difficult to continue. For a while, the building industry was looking great until government officials started trying to control things and stifled that.
Not to mention the bank restrictions and Freddie/Fannie mess that caused so much of a market crash. People borrowing more than they should because of “creative financing” practices. Then a failed bailout by both Bush and Obama. How about less government intrusion and making people accountable for their own actions?
Back to health care, I worry that putting our trust in the government, regardless of their intentions, will end up in the same kind of problems. More money to bureaucrats in a general account for them to spend as they see fit and not necessarily dedicated to health care. All other fears of the shouters aside.
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By: Azarches on August 13, 2009
at 1:00 PM
Yes, because the Patriot Act and HomeLand security sure didn’t create bigger goverment did they (Since you don’t no me I have to point out that is DRIPPING with sarcasm)
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 12:53 PM
kh:
Oh puhleeze…. you really think it’s all about creating bigger government?
Keith in NM
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By: Keith in NM on August 13, 2009
at 12:47 PM
Failed education system, hell yes. When I entered college in 1975 the first math course for freshmen was College Algebra…. now there are three or four remedial courses to learn what wasn’t learned in the secondary system. Progress? I think not.
Soon, the first class after freshman orientation will be a seminar on tying one’s shoes.
As for the lack of information amongst those yelling the loudest about healthcare reform:
My Mom’s home-health nurse made it all clear yesterday…… she’s convinced that ‘Obama’s’ health reforms are going to kill us all… after all her husband “heard” someone on Fox (Facist News Channel) READ him what the bill says….. CAN NO ONE READ FOR THEMSELVES?
In matters of importance, such as this, one must do one’s own research and reading in order to have the right to weigh in on the debate…. if one doesn’t or can’t accept the responsibility to do REAL fact-finding rather than relying on second-hand information, the just shut the hell up.
Okay, enough of that rant.
It’s time to talk to a real estate agent about finding an island somewhere.
Keith in NM
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By: Keith in NM on August 13, 2009
at 12:45 PM
What if, just maybe, the health care reform is about nothing more than bigger government and more control over your life? It is scary to think about and something that shouldn’t be taken lightly. I think you are funny but wrong on just about every point.
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By: kh on August 13, 2009
at 12:39 PM
Spot on. I did want to respond to the comment about failed public education. I’m a product of the public schools and 30 years ago when I was there they did a great job. Now that my kids are there its a mess. What’s the difference? Money. President Reagan and his buddies convinced us that all goverment programs were bad and we should de-fund them all and then they became bad – a self-fullfilling proficy. And its not going to the administration which is my district is less than 2% of of the total cost. I’m sure there is some mispending (just as there is in the very large profitable company I work for) but that’s not the problem – the problem is not enough money to make the school year long enough, not enough money to fix the septic system BEFORE it backs up into the kindergarten classroom, not enough money to have more than one teacher for every 36 kids. Its a matter of priorities – and ours are wacked. I really believe this country will never recover if we don’t invest in our kids education.
Whew, that was a tangent. Sorry ’bout that.
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By: Stacey on August 13, 2009
at 12:30 PM
Helen, Great blog today as always! Unfortunately, I think you named the problem with this line – “Are you people honestly that stupid?” I fear the answer is yes. Did anyone see Hardball last night – one of the townhall “protesters” was on and she was obviously so uninformed it made me crazy listening to her backpeddling and hemming and hawing. If she and those uninformed robots like her who can only repeat the “wisdom” of their idols Limbaugh, O’Reilly, and Beck are the future of this country I honestly don’t know how the nation will survive.
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By: Betty on August 13, 2009
at 12:30 PM
This is simply beautiful! Thank You for your great comment and perspective! You are right on target, as usual.
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By: JuneauJoe Δ on August 13, 2009
at 12:24 PM
I’ve been ranting on my own blog for weeks about today’s object of Helen’s ire, and she said it all in just one post.
What a delightful mental health break.
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By: Leanderthal on August 13, 2009
at 12:23 PM
Yeah, I am the America back where the Supremes were a singing group vs a group a mostly old white men who are easily pushed to do other old white men’s biding … and please add Mr James Baker to the list …
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By: Daryl on August 13, 2009
at 12:16 PM
I’ve seen a few of these people get up and yell the same thing, that they want their “old” America back! We are in the year 2009, we don’t NEED that “old” America back, we need to move forward! All these people are doing is showing how ignorant and racist they are, I think I wouldn’t be as upset with them all if they would just get up there and flat out say, I’m a racist, that’s the only reason I want Obama to fail. I couldn’t agree with you more Helen!
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By: Beth on August 13, 2009
at 12:05 PM
I loved the whole thing, but this:
“Mine states that unless the feeding tube is large enough for a piece of pie, I don’t want to be hooked up to it. ”
made me fall in love with you. 😉
Cheers,
Doxy
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By: Doxy on August 13, 2009
at 12:02 PM
You are a kindred spirit Ms. Helen. I love the line about freedom speech being contingent on the ability to read!!!
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By: NIKNAKPATTYMAC on August 13, 2009
at 11:56 AM
“When you have a melting pot…
.
…THE STEW GETS DARKER!
707 ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 13, 2009
at 11:34 AM
The following is a PSA:
.
.
Please be aware of Anti-Health Insurance Reformers showing signs of advanced <b.Beckerwocky.
*chronic condition turned acute
Do not confront or initiate contact with the subject. May be armed and dangerous.
He’s in obvious need of a
Full Frontal Limbautomy.
*procedure not currently covered
😉 ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 13, 2009
at 11:11 AM
Helen, I just hope I can remember your words for rebuttal when I need them. You type what I think! Thanks
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By: Jane George on August 13, 2009
at 11:09 AM
Helen, this is great! Thank you.
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By: Grandmère Mimi on August 13, 2009
at 11:01 AM
Helen, please adopt me.
For everyone else: whether you are for or against this health insurance reform, please stop insulting the other side, stop name calling, stop yelling and stop being mean. Mean people suck. Let’s just have a healthy debate based on facts, not half truths or lies or fear. Let’s actually act like we are one nation.
Peace, Love and Health Care for all
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By: give peas a chance on August 13, 2009
at 10:43 AM
Brilliant as usual Helen. There are so many underlying currents running beneath the surface of this insanity. Racism, Fear, Hate, lack of education. My fear is that this will end in something more than words that can be taken back.
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By: willpen on August 13, 2009
at 10:42 AM
As always, you’re spot on!! Thanks again Margaret & Helen…your sixty years (and counting!) of friendship has made for some of the best blogging on the web! And believe me, when you live in Alaska and have to deal with the likes of Sarah Palin, you REALLY need something to help you get through the day. Luckily for Alaska, she bailed (again) and now we can get on with the business of running a state.
Happy Thursday from Alaska!
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By: alaskaliberal on August 13, 2009
at 10:38 AM
“This has become less an argument about healthcare reform and more a statement about our failed education system.”
Right on, Helen!
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By: Mari on August 13, 2009
at 10:38 AM
Ambulance Driver, your last remark made me laugh. I know the feeling.
Well, I don’t mind if they protest. They’re welcome to speak their mind, no matter how wild their hair is. My ears tingle and not in a nice way with the shouting, but they hurt before Grandma and Grandpa started in. I don’t think there’s anything new, evil, stupid, or crazy about it. Loud is loud.
I remember an America that silenced four protestors forever because they would not tolerate their organizing and their shouting any longer. I remember an America where the man with the microphone cared more about the length of the hollering man’s hair and the color of his skin than the source of his anxiety. And I remember an America where the wild-haired whacko who showed up with a gun strapped to her leg with the intent to kill the President and the other nut case whose bullet managed to actually hit the President and permanently disable that President’s press secretary were seen as whackos, not representatives. Seems to me both of those whackos were more “the quiet type.”
The America I want isn’t an America from the past. And it’s not the America of the present. It’s an America of the future where the color of the President’s skin is truly no longer an issue.
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By: Fluxux on August 13, 2009
at 10:34 AM
[…] usually someone at the extremes of age who tells it like it is. I came across this blog post by an 80-something grandmother (yes, she blogs! Amazing!) who nails the troubles south of us on the head: Margaret is it just me […]
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By: DancingSamurai.ca | Tell it like it is… on August 13, 2009
at 10:33 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I LOVE YOU, HELEN!!!
Quick… someone get this national treasure a spot on cable news somewhere… we NEED her insight to offset the burning stupid that is infesting the national psyche. RACHEL MADDOW… are you listening?!?! Dump Uncle Pat.
BTW, Helen… my Mom felt the same way about her feeding tube, only she wanted me to shove Jack-in the Box tacos into that little orifice. We laughed like hell when I (fakie) tried to do it… probably the last time I ever saw her really happy and smiling. THANK YOU for sparking that awesome memory of her.
YOU RULE.
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By: Oblio on August 13, 2009
at 10:20 AM
Helen,
Another “tell-it-like-it-is” post. Love it. I hope that the people who are ranting and raving at the town hall meetings will see themselves on the news and realize how crazed they look. It certainly doesn’t look rational or intelligent.
Keep up the good work.
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By: 2Legit on August 13, 2009
at 10:10 AM
Please do not take soooo long between your writings. This country needs your wisdom, wit and wiliness. Write again soon, Helen. And let’s hear from Margaret also.
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By: teacher on August 13, 2009
at 10:09 AM
I am amazed that the House is trying to pass a bill that they have not read. The President appears to have not read it according to the statements he has made.
I have read the bill and quite honestly, it’s not what the bill says that scares me, although there are plenty of scary ideas in there. It’s what is not spelled out that worries me. I look at the Social Security system and how I have been paying into that government run program and will never see any of that money.
Or the public school program and how everyone is saying how bad it is, but that is a government run program as well. The two major flaws I see are this, Social Security money was taken and used in other places to fund programs, and the school systems are so administration heavy that any extra money they get is spent in administrative expenses.
I worry that having a government run health care program would only send us down the same path as so many other government controlled programs. By the way, I am a 30 year old business owner, not a right-wing nut job or a tree hugging liberal.
I just want to provide for my family, spend time with my children, and be generally left alone. I pay my bills, live within my means, and if I can’t afford to buy it, I don’t DESERVE IT!
It is the “I deserve it” attitude that has caused all of this, both sides of the aisle enabled it, administrations continue it to gain power, and people give it to them because, “Hey, they/we/I, DESERVE it”.
Sorry to break out in a rant there on your page, and this being the first time I comment here too. I hope you forgive me.
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By: Azarches on August 13, 2009
at 10:09 AM
to kacee @ 9:59
I find it difficult to get comfortable with back room deals.
I give you the benefit of the doubt. Just give a look to the link I have supplied here.
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By: Lightpond Blogger on August 13, 2009
at 10:05 AM
To Lightpond Blogger – Hillary dropped out of the presidential race on June 7, 2008, a full 8 weeks before the convention, she then asked that her votes be cast for Obama? I think it is time you got over it.
Helen – you rock!!
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By: kacee on August 13, 2009
at 9:59 AM
As always, I’m glad I stopped by.
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By: steadycat on August 13, 2009
at 9:52 AM
Right on Helen!! Excellent piece!! I am so glad to see common sense is not dead!!
Blessings.
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By: Angelica on August 13, 2009
at 9:42 AM
to Thomas Jefferson @ 9:03
#1 … It’s reading COMPREHENSION, not reading COMPREHENTION.
#2 … How a person wins tells us much about who a person is.
#3 … Both “wins” by George W. Bush came via disenfranchisement of many voters. Obama’s nomination came via disenfranchisement of many voters. Are you saying that cheating by disenfranchising voters is okay? Or are you saying that it’s okay when your team wins?
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By: Lightpond Blogger on August 13, 2009
at 9:34 AM
I wish everyone could be as logical as you are Helen. Keep writing the good fight!
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By: Tania on August 13, 2009
at 9:30 AM
Poor hygiene can be a sign of mental instability.
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By: Kay Riggle on August 13, 2009
at 9:21 AM
Garrret at 7:50 AM:
“You know how the crazy people who didn’t believe that Obama was a US citizen were named “birthers”? Now the nut jobs who are against health care reform are called “deathers”, believing that Obama will institute death panels. Probably the same people.”
That sickness is called Cradle to Grave Crazy!
*It’s pre-existing condition and therefore not covered under the current system.
😉 ~ Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 13, 2009
at 9:17 AM
Watch the archival footage of these same racists standing in the streets yelling, “2, 4, 6, 8, we don’t wanna integrate!” Their single payer government health care (Medicare) is probably what they will blame for their slovenly habits. Because as you can see from the old news reels, when these folks were teenagers, they combed their hair.
As usual, you lay the blame at the feet of the right folks. But save some of your sass for the “blue dog’s” who decided not to pass health care before the summer recess. This whole mess could have been avoided if they grew a pair and cared more about the 47 million without health insurance than about the one person (their self) who is beholden to health insurance companies.
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By: DC Fem on August 13, 2009
at 9:12 AM
In the old days, ignorant racists knew what they were doing was wrong so they hid behind sheets and carried out their dirty work in the dark. Now they are full of self-righteous anger over fictions spouted by the agitators at Fox News & Rush Limbaugh. Will they ever be held accountable for these actions?
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By: Crotchety O. Man on August 13, 2009
at 9:12 AM
To Mike: learn to read. There is no bill yet.
To Tammy: also, learn to read, but also learn reading comprehention.
To Lightpond: the election is over, we won. I guess that isn’t good enough for you.
Thank you Helen, you are always the voice of reason!
Cheers!
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By: Thomas Jefferson on August 13, 2009
at 9:03 AM
The Democrats think we should pass the bill without anyone reading it, and the Republicans prey upon unreasoning fears in opposing it.
Seems like common sense isn’t very common on either side of the aisle in Congress.
We’re all doomed.
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By: Ambulance Driver on August 13, 2009
at 9:02 AM
[…] If only more people saw things this clearly: […]
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By: Free to be Me» Blog Archive » Remember When? on August 13, 2009
at 8:47 AM
Tammy, breathe..
If this is your first time in Margaret and Helen’s parlor, I can see where you might have interpreted Helen’s post as racist. I want to assure you, however, that she is not. Please go back through the archives and read additional posts, especially the ones prior to and just after the election. Helen is an avid Obama fan. She is also a fan of democracy, logic, reason, and We the People.
Have a good day. And, come back. The pie here is always delicious.
Happy Thursday, everyone!!!
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By: OceanGypsi on August 13, 2009
at 8:39 AM
Best ever Helen, well my curling iron is hot and I am going public today.
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By: Anonymous on August 13, 2009
at 8:38 AM
It’s just so absolutely infuriating. These morons read “Socialized” and only hear “socialism.” Maybe they like being unable to afford simple health care. Maybe they’re only against it because Obama has been calling for it.
I lived in Japan for 2 years and you know what? I Loved being able to go to the doctor when I was sick. I was a legal resident. I paid taxes. I was enrolled in the national health care system and paid my monthly dues. That’s why I was entitled to health cares. Yes, it was expensive but I got far, far more than I ever got from my crappy $150 dues with Blue Cross Blue Shield. It makes me sick to think that I was better taken care of halfway across the world than I’ve been in my own country.
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By: Liv on August 13, 2009
at 8:31 AM
Beggin’ your pardon but here I am again with some late breaking findings.
It was a Republican Senator from Georgia, Johnny Isakson, who wrote the section on living wills, etc. that is being referred to as the suicide section. He was shocked at the way the Terry Schiavo situation got out of control so he is all for living wills. Now he is totally blown away at the way the conservative side of his own party is using this.
Honestly, Johnny, don’t you know your own kith and kin?
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on August 13, 2009
at 8:29 AM
Absolutely, without a doubt, your best post ever!!! You are queen of the world in my book !!!!!!
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By: J. Nitzel on August 13, 2009
at 8:26 AM
Great blog!
Those mobs remind me of the anti-flouride mess many, many years ago when I was wayyyyy younger. All of those doing that kind of campaigning did not have their own teeth! I could tell when they started their spiel. Well, I had my own teeth and they were in braces. Flouride won out over the shouting and all the anti-flouride people went away and no, flouride did not kill us as they predicted.
This bunch, however, is daily fed a poisonous brew by Republicants and their hate-radio cronies. There is also a dearth of information and knowledge as to how to get hold of a copy of at least one of the Health Insurance Reform Bills such as HR 3200. For those with the internet, do http://www.house.gov and then go to the box advertising Thomas (as in Jefferson) where you can find legislation. Clickie on the box for bill number, then jump just a half click right and enter HR 3200. Go all the way down to the bottom and click the find box. This will not only bring up the bill but all sorts of other options that you should check out. The bill as advertised on Thomas is over 1,000 pages. I printed it out on a big copier and told the copier to double side the output. I got 538 doublesided pages, about an inch and a half of paper. I also used 3 hole punch paper and I was able to put the bill into a binder.
By the way, the bill, like all legislation, is a real cure for insomnia. Oh, and no suicide mentioned anywhere. I know that will disappoint some people.
As for those people who tearfully want “their country back”, they are actually saying “I want my mommy!” And I’ll stand by that! Really! I mean it! They have really, really selective memories, and a lot of them fantasies. Who wants to return to an America where lynching was considered public entertainment and good for the kiddies to see?
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By: Mageen in Old Virginny on August 13, 2009
at 8:21 AM
It is time I thank you for your blog.
God bless you. OK, I am sure she already has!
GREAT BLOG!
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By: jan jan (Possum) on August 13, 2009
at 8:21 AM
I wish more people read your blog. You make more sense out of things than the news organizations.
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By: Pat on August 13, 2009
at 8:21 AM
Good post!
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By: EM on August 13, 2009
at 8:17 AM
i love you ladies.
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By: MIchaelt on August 13, 2009
at 8:16 AM
Thank God for Margaret and Helen. You keep me sane and give me some small hope for this country.
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By: mars tokyo on August 13, 2009
at 8:05 AM
AMEN, sister! Now I must go amend my living will to put in that clause about the pie.
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By: carson on August 13, 2009
at 8:03 AM
No the Supreme Court didn’t pick the president this time. The bought-and-paid-for Democratic party operatives selected our nominee.
In my state of California 2,608,184 votes were cast for Hillary Clinton and 2,186,662 votes were cast for the DNC selectee. At the convention my state of California cast 0 votes for Hillary. What happened to my vote?
I am not seeing a big difference between having the Supreme Court pick the prez and having the bought-and-paid-for Democratic party pick the prez. Either way I got no say.
Speaking of bought-and-paid-for Democratic party, anyone who visits the Sunlight Foundation will get enlightened on the issue of who is doing the buying and paying for.
Here’s a hint – the golden rule.
Here’s another hint – those who have the gold make the rules.
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By: Lightpond Blogger on August 13, 2009
at 8:02 AM
I think we should still use public humiliation as a check on the absolute stupidity so proudly displayed by these people. Laughing at them might do more than you’d think.
Is it a coincidence that the clan hat is the same shape as a dunce hat?
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By: ol&p on August 13, 2009
at 8:02 AM
I think Tammy must have only read the title….
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By: Chrissy on August 13, 2009
at 7:59 AM
You should be a shamed of yourself! This is just awful. You saying a black man shouldn’t be president. YOU are the racist. What kind of America do YOU live in? I can’t believe you think it is okay for the government to tell us to kill old people. YOU should be scared! Haven’t you learnt anything in all your years?
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By: Tammy on August 13, 2009
at 7:53 AM
You know how the crazy people who didn’t believe that Obama was a US citizen were named “birthers”? Now the nut jobs who are against health care reform are called “deathers”, believing that Obama will institute death panels. Probably the same people.
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By: Garrret on August 13, 2009
at 7:50 AM
Thank you!!! You always say it better than I ever could. And I think that “birther” is a synonym for racist. What is going on in this country astounds me and depresses me.
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By: knittergran on August 13, 2009
at 7:28 AM
Thank you thank you for being the voice of reason hollering in the wilderness! Once again we must salute the salient wisdom that is Margaret & Helen. Ladies, you so totally rock my world!
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By: Greytdog on August 13, 2009
at 6:54 AM
You said it so well, I don’t think I can say it any better. I would like to republish this entire post on my blog, with full credit. I will post a link back to your blog as well, but I fear if I only post a link, no one will read it.
Please, please, please.
Missy
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By: Melissa on August 13, 2009
at 6:33 AM
Way to go Helen.
Right on the nose.
They what their country back!
Δ
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By: Whirled Peas Δ on August 13, 2009
at 6:32 AM
It’s about fear AND stupidity, IMO. Fear engendered by stupidity resulting from laziness.
People can’t be bothered to do their own research. They’d rather listen to what the loudest yeller — or the one who looks/acts most like them — says.
Sigh.
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By: Δ Tine on August 13, 2009
at 6:28 AM
Wonderful, just wonderful.
As usual, you are as precise as a laser in your observation of thugs in the republican party.
In a sense it is a failure of education, not the system itself, but the continual lies told by the republicans.
They have proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are liars.
I refuse to call it mistakes anymore. They lie.
And they are doing it to discredit, not the Democrats, but Obama, a black President.
We, as democrats, need to refuse to be intimidated by these people. It is not enough to complain on blogs anymore.
We need to attend the meetings and write our Congressmen/women and Senators.
We need to be strong and stand up to these brown shirt republicans.
You are right, violence is never the answer, nor are the current screaming tactics called for now.
I am soooo glad I don’t have to go to the beauty parlor once a week though!
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By: Diane on August 13, 2009
at 6:25 AM
I don’t think it’s about racism at all or just about the stupid idea of euthanasia.
It’s about fear.
The government has been spending fast and furiously the last six months and proposing legislation that’s likely to come with tons of new regulations.
Our national debt has soared and it’s upsetting and scaring many people. Some of them are getting quite vocal about it, especially when it appears to them, right or wrong, that health care reform is going to have a negative impact on them.
I voted for this president. I’m proud of that vote and stand by that vote.
However, he and every other elected official up for reelection on my ballot has to earn my vote for the next election.
Health care reform full of pork and unneeded regulatory red tape will not earn my vote.
Health care reform that reduces my benefits or makes them more expensive will not earn my vote.
But I’m not going to go out there and yell and scream about it, no matter how much I’d like to.
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By: Mike on August 13, 2009
at 6:13 AM
As always Helen ~ you hit the nail on the head.
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By: Sarah on August 13, 2009
at 6:04 AM
Thank you for your always excellent dose of reality!! You always give me a smile and manage to put everything into perfect perspective!
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By: Suzanne H on August 13, 2009
at 6:04 AM
Helen for Texas Governor!!!!!
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By: Charles R. on August 13, 2009
at 5:50 AM
Good post! And on to the main question; what BB are you guys tooling around on?
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By: Orin T. on August 13, 2009
at 5:01 AM
Helen, your comment “This has become less an argument about healthcare reform and more a statement about our failed education system” says it all! Thank you for your pearls of wisdom.
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By: Raji on August 13, 2009
at 4:11 AM
I treasure your good sense.
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By: aquart on August 13, 2009
at 3:58 AM
Perfectly said Helen. Thank you.
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By: Stephany on August 13, 2009
at 3:26 AM
Helen, I think you’ve got it right. At first, I thought all the screaming and yelling was because people didn’t understand what health care reform means. But so many of the loud-mouths who show up at these town halls are letting their racism show every time they open their mouths.
I’m old enough to remember a different America as well. The part that was my fun, care-free childhood was great. But there were some really ugly parts, and I wouldn’t want to return to any of that.
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By: Pat, Washington state on August 13, 2009
at 3:26 AM
You tell’em!
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By: Rob on August 13, 2009
at 3:22 AM
You make me laugh out loud. Love you, Helen. I mean it. Really.
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By: Hekate on August 13, 2009
at 3:15 AM
Right on, Helen! Common Sense prevails!
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By: vgman on August 13, 2009
at 2:26 AM
You said it well, Helen.
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By: Linda Pendleton on August 13, 2009
at 1:49 AM