Margaret, can we – the American People – finally have a rational conversation about gun control?
It was an elementary school this time – an elementary school with children the same age as my grandchildren. I can hardly bear it. Those poor precious children…
Is the insanity of this enough for us to finally kick the militia morons to the curb and have an intelligent conversation about the real reason for the Second Amendment?
Yes. I know. Guns do not kill people. People using guns kill people. The same can be said about tanks.
I have no doubt that in the coming days we will learn that no laws or gun control of any kind could have prevented this tragedy. There are millions of guns already out there and new gun control laws won’t do anything about that… bad people can always find a way to get a gun. Most gun owners are responsible people who have legitimate reasons to own a gun. So there’s nothing we can do, right?
Bullshit. Not doing anything is not the answer. It’s the problem. I refuse to believe that hunters and responsible gun owners can’t have a meaningful conversation about better gun laws with citizens who do not wish to own guns.
We are already hearing about the mental instability of the shooter – a child himself. And there will be meaningful conversation about the lack of good mental health policies and how that was the cause of all this and not gun control laws. Everyone can agree that mental illness, just like any illness, should not go untreated. So where is the disconnect? Why are conversations about mental illness and gun control mutually exclusive? Please Dear God if Republicans and Democrats can ever come together about something, this must be it. And for those of you who think now is not the time to talk about gun laws, I wholeheartedly agree. That conversation should have happened long ago. And it definitely should have happened before 20 precious children lost their lives.
It doesn’t matter what type of gun was used. It doesn’t matter if that gun was obtained illegally or legally. It doesn’t matter if the person was mentally unstable or just plain evil. What matters is that the most powerful country on the globe must have an intelligent conversation about the manufacturing, sale and ownership of guns without someone screaming nonsense about the 2nd Amendment.
Guns do not kill people. They make it easier to kill people. There are 314 million Americans and we own almost 300 million guns. That is the very definition of mental illness. I mean it. Really.
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at 1:13 PM
Hi, again, Penny –
Impending blizzards usually make me stick to my keyboard even more than usual…!
From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language:
“bloviate” – to discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner.
Or, in the case of some I might mention, “… in a pompous AND boastful manner.”
A double winner, our Timmer!
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 8, 2013
at 10:04 AM
Hi, Penny – There was also an interesting in Mother Jones online this morning, about how the NRA spent tons of money several years ago (when they were running out of funding) to push for the “three strikes” laws and the building of more prisons to house all the new offenders, from which they profited mightily.
They also “offer” to help out struggling low-budget gun clubs and shooting ranges… On the condition that EVERY member of the club become a member of the NRA. So your gun club can get nice new fancy jackets for your youth skeet shooting team, or repairs or upgrades to your range, if the NRA gets a whole bunch of new “members.” Nice, huh?
So a few kids get mowed down in their first-grade classroom… So long as it doesn’t affect the Bottom Line of your corporate sponsors! It wouldn’t surprise me if I learned that the NRA had sent personal letters to the families of all those slaughtered in Newtown, exhorting them to buy guns to “prevent this tragedy from ever happening again”…
No; that wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
I’d LIKE to find something “nice” to say about the NRA, because even I have a hard time believing much of what seems undeniable about their activities. But, so far, no luck on that front.
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 8, 2013
at 9:55 AM
First of all we are not all women; secondly, I wonder how it is that you have the truth and those who disagree with you do not; and third, what are you doing about this horrendous situation that threatens your American way of life? When you make statements, it would behoove you to have some hint of proof…something, anything…that makes sense.
By: Penny Abrams on February 8, 2013
at 9:40 AM
isn’t this proof enough that the NRA heads, as well as the people y’all elected, are bought and paid for by the gun manufacturers? fire ‘em! we can do that! a fie and a pox on all of them.
By: Penny Abrams on February 8, 2013
at 9:29 AM
Somebody doesn’t know they posted links on a different thread?
Chuck that tinfoil hat, neighbor, and go look on the why-bother post.
Not that any of it is worth following up on but do not like folks accusing our hostesses nor their relative who helps them of things which haven’t happened…
By: alaskapi on February 7, 2013
at 8:36 PM
I guess you’ll just have to get used to being deleted. Would you prefer the strawberry, or the lemon, KoolAid? They’re both so yummy…
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 7, 2013
at 8:28 PM
Now I see why you ladies are so very misled. #1 you cheer each other on thinking this makes you right. #2 the links I showed that they are indeed trying to completely disarm us have been deleted, as have the links showing Obama killing US citizens without representation or trial. This is a propaganda machine with a strangle hold on the truth. Enjoy your manufactured kool-aid “ladies.”
By: Timmer on February 7, 2013
at 8:18 PM
Hey, Lori – You had a good Daddy, for sure. It’s our parents who so often help make us who we are… Thanks for your post!
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 7, 2013
at 6:15 PM
Hi friends!
I very much enjoyed your blog post Gato! Nice job!
No matter what the final “gun bill” ends up looking like I am declaring victory for our country. I truly believe THIS time we have begun a nation wide dialog about just how violent our country has become. Our whole “gun toting” culture is bizarre and we are well over due for a culture shift. THAT has begun.
Every social change we have seen in this country, from abolishing slavery all the way to women’s reproductive rights, started with a culture change. Someone somewhere, usually the victims of the injustice, said “no mas, no more, this must change” And usually it has been progressives’ leading the way in the struggle for change.
As Delurker and many of you have already pointed out the facebook meme that reminds us how we changed the entire air traveling experience because of the actions of just 2 individuals that did NOT succeed! Fifteen year years ago we would have NEVER believed air travelers would be lining up and undressing for all the world to see.
Personally, as a left libber, I struggle with some of these so called “nanny laws” (the seat belt law for one, and don’t get me started on those stupid ID badges…LOL) . But my line is ALWAYS drawn when OTHER’S personal safety is at risk. Not just the one committing the act. I like many of my porch dwellers grew up in Eastern Pennsylvania with a Daddy who was a gunsmith. I still have a dozen of so of his guns, in storage, waiting for my nephew to retrieve. I shot my first rifle (badly, I think I still bear the b&b MARK on my shoulder) well before I learned to drive.
But that was then and this is now. Times are a changin and I’m committed to change as well. I would have NEVER thought 40 years ago, as I sat on my Daddy’s knee, bluing guns, that my country would have become this violent, but it has. The time has come… No mas….
Keep pushin the pile friends…..
PS: just for the record my father discontinued his membership to the NRA back in 1970 Ducks Unlimited a few years later. Reason? They didn’t represent HIM or his politics. I had a smart man for a Daddy.
By: lori on February 7, 2013
at 5:36 PM
Hi, Terry – Your image came across quite vividly… I think “junkyard dog” is what I was looking for, much as I hate to stoop to “ad hominem” – or, in this case, I guess it would be “ad caninimem” – attacks.
It is seeming more and more apparent to me that the NRA “represents” gun owners about as much as The Hulk represents healthy fitness.
Just put a related post on my blog; would love to know what you think…
http://www.partyandsoul.wordpress.com
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 7, 2013
at 2:53 PM
Gato, You made my day with your comments. Now I’m visualizing the NRA as a junkyard dog sniveling with its tail between its legs at the feet of its gun manufacturer master. I wish I had taken a class in caricature or cartooning when I was taking my art courses or followed up on that matchbook ad I saw. You’ll just have to conjure it up in your minds, Porch Friends.
Now all I can look forward to regarding this mess if for someone with brass balls who will be obeyed to explain the 2nd Amendment in whatever type English these idiots can understand. – Terry
By: Terry Waggle on February 7, 2013
at 1:51 PM
Right on, Penny! Of course, the Brits have plenty of hunters, and always have. But an “average citizen” with a semi-automatic…? Not.
We see friends from the UK and Canada every year on our vacation (which is coming right up), and they inevitably express their astonishment that we are STILL such a nation of so many irresponsible cowboys…
They were absolutely beside themselves – with amazement and glee – over Dick Cheney’s “hunting accident” a few years ago… We didn’t hear the end of that, from them, for DAYS!
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 7, 2013
at 12:40 PM
Hi, Terry – Yes; I saw that Jon Stewart show. My husband (GOP and ever looking for a hair that can be split, god love him) pointed out that LaPierre hadn’t REALLY “changed his mind” about background checks. Au contraire, dear husband pointed out that LaPierre had merely “realized” that background checks “don’t work”… Which isn’t “exactly” changing his mind.
(Fortunately, I calmed down after having my fit, and my husband and I ended up in the same bed, as usual… It does get pretty interesting around here from time to time…)
As I think I posted yesterday, it’s my belief that LaPierre can say they “don’t work” is because the gun manufacturers don’t want them to work (could cost them a lot of sales), and so, faithful cur that the NRA is, the organization works very diligently and constantly to undermine their implementation at every opportunity. (I wonder if they would object to prohibiting PTSD sufferers from using shooting ranges… Very unfortunate about Chris Kyle’s murder.)
There is NO REASON ON EARTH (as we all know) why gun show sales and those “father-to-son sales on a Sunday” should not be documented and recorded. We all dutifully recommend the transfer or sale of an automobile, or a piece of real estate, or financial instruments of all kinds… And, BTW, the requirement to register a motor vehicle has not exactly been the dreaded “first step” toward confiscating all automobiles…
Sorry for preaching to the faithful choir!
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 7, 2013
at 12:33 PM
So far as I know, the populace of Great Britain never carried guns; nor do their police officers on the streets. Their crime rate is lower than ours.
As for the gun manufacturers getting to the NRA and a number of elected congress people, you can bet the farm on that. What other reason that anyone can possibly imagine would cause anyone to stand against banning of semi and automatic weapons and mega cartridges and thorough background checks inccluing any record of domestic violence?
My sons hunt for deer and wild turkey. When they lived in our house, I asked my husband to give me the firing pins which I hid somewhere else altogether. There was no possibility of accident then…unless the rifles fell out of their cabinet onto your toes. There was never ammo in the house. They bought it when they
departed for their hunting trips.
You cannot convince me that any legitimate hunter would refuse a background check nor would they even want to be able to fire hundreds of bullets at one load. How totally absurd. Why not fill the bath tub with fish so you can go fishing? Same thing. You could even raise the prey in an enclosed area so you could shoot them without even going anywhere.That’s the American spirit, right?
Liberties come with responsibilties and the right to life is the first right in the Bill of Rights. The first…and most important.
By: Penny Abrams on February 7, 2013
at 12:20 PM
To Gato and all the others who have voiced reason in this conversation: Did anyone see the clip of NRA’s esteemed president voicing support for gun control in the past? It was on The Daily Show if I remember correctly. What he said was a complete turn around from what he’s saying now. I guess the gun manufacturers got to him. You know, sat him down and talked turkey. And you know they all need assault rifles to kill those damn turkeys.
The latest rant is that once there’s a national registry of gun owners the government will know where the guns are and they’ll confiscate all of them. They claim that’s what happened in Great Britain. I find it hard to believe anything the gun rights goons say but maybe someone knows the truth about this. – Terry
By: Terry Waggle on February 7, 2013
at 11:33 AM
Hi, Penny – Frustration shared, here, from time to time. But don’t be discouraged. I sense a real willingness to continue with dogged determination from so many of us.
Blog & work; blog & work; that’ll do it! When I think about it, I realize that I never paid one whit of attention to the NRA, to who pays them, or any of that stuff, for decades – and now I do. And I’m not the only one. We’ve got a porch full!
And we all know we’re dealing with a bunch of proverbial cornered dogs – the most desperate and potentially dangerous.
“There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.” Believe it, and carry on.
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 6, 2013
at 6:04 PM
The frustration I am feeling is beyond my ability to convey. All the polls show that everyone wants semi or auto matic weapons banned and their mega cartridges banned…everyone except those who are owned by the gun manufacturers. How come, then, that it hasn’t happened? Is it not so blatantly obvious that those who are against background checks and the banning of automatic weapons are owned by the manufacturers who don’t give a flying fig for anything but their profits? Ergo…using any kind of logic…the ban should be in affect. So why isn’t it?
I have a theory. While I do understand the need for politic language, and I do know that calling someone a lying s.o.b. is not usually productive, the time has come to speak in a bone honest manner. The time has come to say, point blank, that those who oppose the proposed gun controls are only interested in their pockets. To say it in those words. And to prove it.
Apparently the only kind of ‘conversation’ we can have nowadays is to state, in very short sentences, the point with proof. Fancy terminology, constant (misconstrued) references to the Second Amendment and the crap line that Obama just wants to take your guns away is winning the day! So we have to make it clear. So clear that their is no argument left that holds water.
It is totally beyond my ken why that is not done daily, several times daily, by the few sane people left in government and in the press (TV, radio and papers).
By: Penny Abrams on February 6, 2013
at 3:42 PM
Cynthia, that is the clearest, most concise response I’ve ever read to “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” Thank you.
By: Susanna J. Sturgis on February 6, 2013
at 12:59 PM
Me, too, Lurker – And it seems to me that the Second Amendment is being used by some as both a “tool” and a “weapon” TO SELL GUNS. Period.
Gato
By: gatodicima on February 6, 2013
at 9:04 AM
I’m with you Cynthia.
I suppose we should deregulate grenades and nuclear arms, too, huh? After all, they don’t kill people either.
One crazy shoe bomber and we’re all taking our shoes off at airports. The underwear bomber led to full body scans.
A couple of dozen little kids robbed of their right to life, liberty and their pursuit of happiness and there’s outrage over even trying to do something about it. Second amendment rights trump ALL the others, and common sense also too.
I agree we have seen this new guy before. The arrogance, phrasing and tone are a dead giveaway.
And he knows damn well nobody is coming for his guns.
By: delurkergurl on February 6, 2013
at 8:51 AM
You say a gun is a tool. A gun is designed to kill or injure a human or an animal. It can also be used to intimated, threaten or used to hold power over another. Or it can be used to shoot at a target which improves your accuracy to shoot a human or animal or in competition as to who is the better shot. It really doesn’t have any other use. If you were to use it as a hammer you might shoot yourself. But to say it is just a “tool” is very misleading. It is an instrument or weapon designed for the sole purpose to kill or maim and that is its only purpose. Those guns that shoots 30/50/100 rounds in seconds is a instrument designed to kill or injure as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time and the shooter does not need to be a marksman. The bigger and more powerful it is the less you have to bury but the more you have to scrape or clean up.
“Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” is a bullshit statement. A gun is a piece of metal, plastic or wood. It is not a living thing with a brain capable of making a decision to find a target, aim and pull its trigger. Of course it does not have the ability to fire by itself it needs a person to use it to kill. But kill it will.
I will go along with calling it a “tool” if you are using it to put food on the table. Or to shoot a rabid animal but most of them do not have rabies but distemper. But we are not talking about hunting. If you need an AR-15 with 30/50/100 rounds to hunt with you have no business hunting.
Peace.
By: Cynthia on February 5, 2013
at 11:45 PM