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Posted by: Helen Philpot | February 10, 2012

100,000 Gay Kids Secretly Watch Ellen

HELEN:

Margaret, I think that religious freedom means that we have freedom for religion as well as freedom from religion.  Now I know you don’t worry about this stuff.  You have never questioned your religion and you never worry about the day you will eventually meet your maker.  I question my religion regularly and worry all the time.  I guess that’s why I have a fat ass and you look like a zipper when you stick your tongue out.  Which reminds me, dear, did you check on that cake recipe I sent you? I am not sure about the ingredients and Betty’s daughter is kind of mad at me about that Komen stuff so I can’t ask her right now.

And speaking of being mad, I watched that sweet Ellen – like I do every day – and discovered that one million mothers are mad at JCPenney and they are trying to get Ellen fired because she is one of those lesbians.  That sweet little girl never did anything but make people laugh and dance a little.  Every time she comes on the TV I have to get up and do a little step doodle-ditty step with her.  I just love her.  Who are these million moms anyway?  Mothers should know better.  Statistically speaking a hundred thousand of those moms are raising a child who secretly watches Ellen and would one day make a fine spokesperson for JCPenney.

All of this hatred in the name of Jesus is alarming.  It’s alarming from a million moms and it is particularly alarming from presidential candidates like Rick Santorum. He was in Texas this week talking about his faith… which always leads him to talk about abortion and gay marriage.  I swear that man worries more about vaginas and who is sleeping with whom than any normal person should.   I don’t think he is right in the head.  He told his audience that his faith is a part of who he is and it will guide him in his presidency.  Well good for him.

There is nothing wrong with a little faith keeping you on the straight and narrow as they say.  But here’s the problem I have when it is the only consideration for a presidential candidate.  My faith guides me too.   And my church has no issue with contraception and understands that sometimes abortion is a moral and scared decision that a women might make in her life.  And every week when I go to my church there are these two women who are raising two beautiful little girls and nobody in my church has an issue with their little family.  I even heard that they all went up to Canada and got married.  Now I get that Rick Santorum’s and Newt Gingrich’s church, the Catholic Church, feels differently about these things.  And I respect that.  But which church should our government follow?  Your church or my church? What about Mitt Romney’s church?

My late husband, Harold, was a Catholic.  He went to mass every Sunday until the day he left this earth.  But I can promise you that he didn’t tell me what I could and couldn’t do with my lady parts and I’m sure as hell not going to let Newt and Rick start telling me now.

And while we are on the subject, let me say a few words about all those Catholic Bishops who say they would prefer to deny healthcare to everyone rather than include coverage for contraception.  That law does not force the church to give birth control to women.  Churches and houses of worship are exempt.  This is about hospitals and universities that serve and employ the broader public, not to mention they receive federal funding.  I am sure those Bishops are clueless about these things but the typical woman spends five years pregnant, or trying to get pregnant, and 30 years trying not to get pregnant.  So you’re telling me that  a bunch of nurses have to resort to the rhythm method for 30 years  just because the hospital they work at has some saint’s name above the door?   If those Bishops get their way a female professor at Notre Dame can’t get insurance coverage for her monthly birth control but her male counterpart can slap down a $15 co-pay and get all the Viagra he wants. Well that’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day.

I know you think I am over-reacting, Margaret, but you need to understand that it’s not just about the stupidity of some Bishops or the whining of a million clueless moms.  There are real dangers when religion gets into bed with politics.

Gingrich would outlaw all abortion with no exceptions. He signed the Republican candidate pledge which would give all human zygotes from the moment of conception the same rights and constitutional protections as human beings. He would oppose any legislative, judicial or bureaucratic efforts to define marriage as anything other than a relationship between a man and a woman… or in his case a man, a woman and another woman.

Santorum opposes all abortion including abortion for rape victims or for women who would die from continuing a pregnancy.  He considers contraception “dangerous” and favors allowing the states to ban it altogether.  According to Rick, gays are such second class citizens that they don’t deserve the privilege of marriage which is kind of odd considering those gay marriages reduce the number of abortions opting instead to adopt a lot of those unwanted kids.

Romney said Roe v. Wade should be reversed.  He says he would support a federal constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman.   He would allow gays already married to remain married but would bar any new gay marriages.  Those gay marriages are kind of like his view on abortion – at one time they were fine.  Now they are not.

Those are alarming statements and positions because all of them are based on the candidate’s personal religious beliefs and yet all of them would have devastating effects on millions of American citizens who might not share those same beliefs.   I’m pretty sure  letting gay people get married isn’t going to stop Rick Santorum or any of those million moms from following their faith.  And it would be nice if those Bishops would realize having insurance coverage doesn’t mean you have to use birth control.

I wrote once that love is about the heart not the body.  Trust me, if it was about the body a lot of us would be in a world of trouble.  You can’t legislate love between two consenting adults.  You just can’t no matter how hard you try.  If you want to save marriage, marry someone you love.  And if you don’t believe in contraception, don’t use it – and please don’t date my granddaughter.

So to any of those million moms out there who might read this, I say:    Leave Ellen alone.  Ellen hasn’t done anything except bring a little happiness into my world every day at her new time slot of 3:00 now that Oprah is gone.  You would be lucky to have your child grow into such a wonderful young woman as Ellen DeGeneres.

What a week.  On Sunday I went to church. On Monday I made a donation to Planned Parenthood.  And today, I told my son to buy my granddaughter a cute new outfit at JCPenney so that Ellen won’t lose her job.   And, just like you Margaret, I am pretty sure that God and I are right with one another.  I mean it.  Really.

MARGARET:

Well I’ll let you worry about all that, dear.  I am working on that recipe you asked about for the cookbook.  Betty drinks so I question her notes about how much butter to use.  By the way, Ellen comes on at 4:00 here in Maine which makes it hard because Howard likes to eat dinner at 4:30.

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(You can now follow Helen on Twitter @HelenPhilpot)

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Responses

  1. He or she still looks like he’s 25. Amazing.

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  3. It’s nearly imposxsible to find experienced people in this particular subject,
    however, you sound like you know whawt you’re talking about!
    Thanks

  4. Dear Helen, I am so happy that I stumbled upon your blog. You are the most refreshing voice i have heard in a long, long time! Spot on!

  5. Ellen’s show is really entertaining. She’s a really good and funny host. People should not judge her and say bad things about her just because of her sexual orientation. I think it’s time that others learn to be more accepting of those who have a different sexual orientation

  6. Enjoyable! Just are not able to discover ways to remodel your blog site, is Friday new posts generally there, with the exception of this specific leahcrawford | Just another WordPress.com site?

  7. Politics, politics, politics…
    Same ole, same ole, same ole…
    Year in, year out… :neutral:
    Insanity.

  8. Well Poolman, I don’t think Rand Paul will be Mitten’s choice for VP
    either. I think he will keep Ron Paul on the hook though, if he is smart, which he is.

    Another commentor and I had a conversation about this very thing a few days ago. I think Mitten will call on Rubio, the other commentor disagrees with me however. LOL LOL

    I do think Paul will hang in there for platform influence. Not sure any of your Party’s “powers to be” will listen to him. But Paul owes his contributor’s something, although his donor’s have pretty much bailed on him in the last week or so. His strongggggg showing of 5-7 percent doesn’t cut the mustard. He will feel obligated to deliver a little more. His best shot is to go out as a “policy influencer”. Which is fine. Your party needs to move a little left imho! Imagine That!

  9. Thank you so much.
    You are a light in this world.
    I admire you.

    Be well,

  10. donnamf54

    Maybe I am not making myself clear. I will try again.

    You are correct, and I have agreed, that there are many shades of grey in felonies. My point is you are fighting the wrong fight in your argument. This issue and the issue of voting rights for felons are separate issues. If you do not think all felons should lose their right to vote, then get those felons reclassified away from the hard core criminals.

    I will not go as far as you to say those who ” I ” feel are not qualified to vote should not vote. If you are a legal citizen, no matter your IQ or belief, you get to vote.

    This is also not a Conservative or Liberal issue. Wanting picture ID is a security measure sought out Republicans. That it is a ploy to limit voting is a Democrat political ploy based on supposition for the purpose of political currency.

    These speculations only serve to muddy the waters, and this is why Republicans and Democrats can almost never find common ground. If you look at 99.9% of arguments from the Left, you will find a common formula. A victim, a villain, and a hero. The victim is a person or group, usually a group defined by the Left, The villain is either the Right, the rich, or a corporation(ie big business). The hero is always the same, someone on the Left championing their cause, as defined by them. If the cause is not immediately embraced, then fear of the consequences of not accepting said help are made apparent.

    Look at the arguments presented above. All in a divisionist format. Left vs Right. Men vs Women. Anyone remember the phrase, “United we stand, divided we fall?” This is, in my opinion, the most destructive way to work out our differences. I dare say it makes it impossible, and I am starting to wonder if it is intentional.

    P.S. As far as this thing with Rush goes. Remember your sweat little coed is really a 30 year old activist. Not the harmless little flower portrayed by the media.

  11. I agree with you all the way, donnamf54. I’d love to hear more of your family stories. :D

  12. Thank you delurk, I’ve been reading Miss Helen’s essays for 2 and 1/2 years. The first thing I learned here was never to drink anything while you’re reading. This a pretty intimidating group, for the most part, but I’ve learned a lot even from those I disagree with.

    I come from a family of strong democratic pioneer women.My grandmother was born in Indian Territory in Oklahoma. GGgrandfather ran a country store on a cattle trail in the 1890’s on the Red River between Oklahoma and Texas. My father was a republican but he was seriously outnumbered. My mother was a democrat. She had the names and addresses of all our state and federal representatives taped to the inside of her kitchen cabinet and she wrote them often. If she was alive she would have loved Helen as they would be about the same age.

    That said, Herb, I get that to you a felon is a felon, but in real life, it’s not that way. Whether a crime is a felony or not depends on where you live, who you know, money, what you look like, and money. Did I mention money? I think Alaskapi already went over this and Donna#1 kind of brought it home, but ok. There are a lot of people out there I think should not be allowed to vote, not because they have committed a crime and served their time, but because they’re just plain stupid. And some of them even went to college.

    But disenfranchising voters seems to be the in thing for conservatives right now. Oh yes and alienating over half the population (women)over contraception has been added to the agenda .

    Rush’s apology was almost as disgusting as what he said. I hope more advertisers drop him. Now if we could just get the republican leadership to stop sucking up to him. There are cracks, but we’ll see.

  13. Donna- :-)
    yup!
    Sure have missed you.
    Glad you have stopped in again.

  14. wait! Limbaugh illegally obtained Oxycontin and Hydrocodone. Then he bought Viagra using a false name. Both acts (which, at least for the first, were repeated many times for years). Both are felonies.

    Limbaugh was able to avoid conviction for two reasons. First, he hired Roy Black, an outstanding lawyer. Second, he directed his physicians not to waive his patient privacy rights and give information to the state and federal investigators about Limbaugh’s medical condition.

    So there is no question but that Limbaugh repeatedly violated the criminal law and that he did so intentionally. I trust that there is agreement that Limbaugh should not be able to vote or to otherwise “have a say in how our society is run.”

    And, of course, we have the “Men of God,” such as Swaggart, Haggard, and Bakker. And politicians such as Foley, Ensign, DeLay, Libby–one could go on and on. How exciting!

  15. The latest on Rush is he lost another advertiser just today, that makes seven so far. Businesses are beginning to realize women have economic clout, and if politicians are in doubt, they will find out in November. And a big high five to all supportive men.

  16. Some common ground, Noah. It’s a start. Criminals = no vote. Former criminals are another matter. Many people make bad decisions when they are young, down and out, or raised in the wrong environment. Remediation can make a big difference. I’m so glad you have found maturity on this topic, and proud of this community to help you get there.

  17. donnamf54

    As it stands now a felon is a felon. Rape, Murder, Drug Dealers, Child Molesters, Armed Robbery, like it or not, are part of that classification. To argue that other crimes are not worth of losing ones right to vote is to argue that they should be classified separably, not if those listed above should ever get their right to vote.

    Until then I am absolutely for criminals not having a say in how our society is run. I will not prescribe to the notion that committing crimes is not a voluntary act. Responsibility is not a popular concept. To me it is everything and it is why we are in the shape we are in today in this country. To be clear, the lack of.

  18. Not wishing to beat a dead horse…. but I don’t remember hearing vasectomies mentioned. Are they not covered by insurance? To my knowledge the only reason for one is for “birth control” or perhaps to be a “super stud” without responsibility.

    The problem with thinking “it is either black or white” is that life/reality is not that simple. It is all those damn shades of grey in between that we have to deal with that make life more difficult, IMO.

    Peace.

  19. Thank you, donnamf54. Great post. Maybe he’ll hear you in a way that he’d never hear some of the old timers here.

  20. And Lori, of course!

  21. Donna… just doing you the same favor you have had to do for me a zillion times!

    Great posts, Cynthia, Poolman & Elsie. Proud to know you.

  22. Herb, I’m not the same donna but having been reading her posts for several years. She’s is very smart and I respect her writings. But I wanted to weigh in on the felony/atonement subject. A few years ago my son and his roommates dorm room was burglarized by fellow students who had stolen master room keys from a custodian. After taking 3 laptops and video gaming, they went back to another room. They got caught because they forgot to check that the student was still sleeping his room. The 2 students were charged with 2 felony counts of burglary. The 2 students were football players. They lost their scholarships and got kicked out of school. If convicted, they could have served time. They were set for trial, but the DA asked my son and his roommates that if the defendants paid restitution would we allow the charges to be dismissed. I told the DA that we would agree to this with an additional stipulation that my son and his roommates each receive a letter of apology from the young men who had clearly lost more than they ever would have gotten from the sale of stolen goods. We did get the letters of apology and they were seemed to realize what a stupid thing they had done. One letter was over a page, handwritten, and seemed sincerely sorry for what he had done and grateful for the opportunity we had given him to start over. My son only lost his computer; it was never recovered and probably dumped in the river, but he learned a lot from this experience.

    So, my point is this was not murder or rape but it was a felony. District attorneys have to decide everyday on crimes whether to plea bargain, dismiss or go to trial. If you convict, do you get probation or jail time? That’s what our justice system is about, everybody’s case is decided on an individual basis. I guess that is what is good and bad about our system. It is why court systems get bogged down, but as a country we strive for punishment fitting the crime. As others have said it is totally fallible and always will be. I just didn’t feel anything more would have been gained by putting two young men in prison, I am not religious, but I am hoping that these 2 young men had a “come to Jesus” moment when they realized they could really have gone to prison and their whole lives could have been ruined. Can I be sure they have atoned, no of course not, but at least I know I gave them a chance to try.

  23. and whoopppp dar it is Cynthia… thanks for setting the record right.. again. ;-)

  24. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/sandra-fluke-says-she-expected-criticism-not-personal-attacks-over-contraception-issue/2012/03/03/gIQAJq1UpR_story_1.html

    “Fluke did not talk about her own sex life or use of contraceptives as she spoke that day. Instead, she cited experiences that she said law classmates had shared: Students who pay as much as $1,000 a year out-of-pocket for a birth-control prescription, a married woman who stopped taking the pill because she couldn’t afford it, and a friend who needed the prescription for a medical condition unrelated to pregnancy but gave up battling to get it.

    (It is my understanding the woman with the medical condition ended up having an ovary removed because of ovarian cysts. Nor does it seem Sandra Fluke intended to mislead.)

    “We did not expect that women would be told in the national media that we should have gone to school elsewhere” to receive contraception coverage, Fluke’s testimony stated…..

    In early February, Fluke — who said she is Protestant — joined students from other universities for a news conference about birth control coverage at Catholic institutions.

    That appearance caught the eye of staff members working for Democrats on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, who asked her to testify at a hearing on Feb. 16.
    Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) would not approve Fluke as a witness, angering Democrats who then arranged for Fluke to read her testimony at a forum on Feb. 23.”
    About her own use of contraceptives, Fluke said: “I’m not going to discuss my personal life for very obvious reasons.”

    Peace.

  25. Hi, there, old friends. It’s been a while since I visited. One thing that makes me want to speak up today is that I thought it might be time for a history break. Perhaps you are having a particularly quiet Sunday and want to return to Helen’s comments found at

    http://margaretandhelen.com/2011/01/25/sometimes-men-should-just-stick-to-football/

    She has much to say, including comments about Rick Perry, and then segues into …

    (excerpt)
    “So last night some fool…named Noah decided to call you all sheep because you seemed to like what I had written about Ricky…..

    (excerpt)
    “Among other things, Noah decided to leave a little pearl of personal wisdom in his not so well thought out diatribe…”

    Lots of thoughts there from Helen, then her final words:

    “Noah dear. Stick to football. And Mrs. Noah? Slap him for me. He really should spend more time tending to you rather than writing to me. But I digress. I mean it. Really.”

    I think all of the intelligent fans who read Helen for enjoyment rather than to be trollish and repetitively argumentative support that excellent suggestion offered by our blog mistress.

    If it walks like a duck, most decidedly squawks like a duck, and acts like an ass, it’s Noah.

  26. I don’t think the felon issue is “small potatoes”, Joe. I suppose in comparison to all the other issues we need to deal with it probably seems minor. Of course it may be different to discuss it with someone who IS a felon and would love to vote.

    I see it as just another way we beat down the down-trodden as a general rule in America. The poor folks generally have to spend more for things that wealthier folks get discounts on or sometimes free. Privilege has it’s privileges.

    Got plenty of money? Your checking is free. Got very little? Well, let’s penalize you for that low balance. Oh, does that big service charge put you in the red? Here let me tack on an “insufficient funds” fee. Carrying a negative balance for a week? Here’s another fee…

    Can’t make ends meet with your income? You’re probably just lazy or like paying late fees. Credit score really low? How about higher interest and shorter terms?

    That is just one industry’s practice. Multiply that by as many industries as you can and then you will begin to see the real picture.

    Christian nation, my ass.

  27. Voter Suppression by Republicans is the big issue.

    http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/05/10711/voter-suppression-bills-sweep-country

    A wave of voter suppression legislation is emerging from newly elected GOP governors and Republican legislators that would make it much more difficult for traditional Democratic constituencies to vote — just in time for the 2012 election. About a dozen states are are actively considering legislation that would make voting much more difficult for college students, minorities, the elderly and the disabled. In some states, like Ohio, it is estimated that close to one million people would be affected by these changes.

    An editorial in the New York Times linked this wave of voter suppression to the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). On ALEC’s website, there is a “Voter ID Act” link that is only accessible to members. But Campus Progress obtained a copy of the ALEC Voter ID Model Legislation that provides a roadmap to this coordinated assault on voter rights.
    Funding by Alec is very Right Wing…

    Barber let off Murderers.

  28. Interesting this from the always honest left.

    “For me the interesting part of the story is the ever-evolving “coed”. I put that in quotes because in the beginning she was described as a Georgetown law student. It was then revealed that prior to attending Georgetown she was an active women’s right advocate. In one of her first interviews she is quoted as talking about how she reviewed Georgetown’s insurance policy prior to committing to attend, and seeing that it didn’t cover contraceptive services, she decided to attend with the express purpose of battling this policy. During this time, she was described as a 23-year-old coed. Magically, at the same time Congress is debating the forced coverage of contraception, she appears and is even brought to Capitol Hill to testify. This morning, in an interview with Matt Lauer on the Today show, it was revealed that she is 30 years old, NOT the 23 that had been reported all along.”

    Though there aren’t links in the original post to the content mentioned, a little digging shows that it’s all true. Fluke has described herself as a third year law student at Georgetown University, and indeed, that is what she is. However, contrary to the narrative of innocent victimhood that portrays Fluke as a wide-eyed 23-year-old girl caught without contraception on a college campus full of predatory men, Fluke herself is really a 30-year-old women‘s rights activist who not only didn’t get caught without contraception at Georgetown, but specifically knew the university didn’t cover it and chose to attend for precisely that reason.”

  29. I thought Democrats were all about the pardon? Clinton did what? 139 pardons on his last day in office alone? Even did a pardon for his brother the week before. In total, President Clinton issued 456 executive clemency orders – 395 pardons and 61 commutations.

    Obama has given pardons to coke dealers (2), another person for adultery and bouncing checks, yet another drug offender, and another person for counterfeiting, All quality people I am sure.

  30. The whole felon issue is small potatoes. The real issue is the Republican successful efforts to make it such that poor, elderly, college aged folks and the young cannot vote. The changing of laws the last 3 years is a blatant attempt to restrict voting by those the Republican majorities do not like.

    Voter Suppression in Florida and intimidation of a teacher who registers her students.

    http://rackjite.com/archives/9341-Stephen-Colbert,-Florida-Voter-Suppression-teacher-Dawn-Quarles.html

    A new study shows that guilt or innocence and the length of sentencing depends more on the judge than the facts. I just heard this on the radio. I also find it interesting that Haley Barber, former Governor, pardoned a couple of hundred prisoners for little or no reason.

  31. Delurker: You are right. My bad.

    No–but I’m not surprised. We have a ton of completely incomprehensible laws on the books.

  32. I like that article you posted, delurkergurl. It makes sense. I like the last part where it says we should require them to vote. I’m almost of the mind that we should require everyone to vote. Now that may seem counter to freedom to some, but I see it as vital part of taking personal responsibility in life.

    I don’t think we would see any more or less “buying” of votes than we do now.

  33. Donna, quit playing his game. You’re smarter than that. I’m interested in hearing more about the stupid laws we have on the books in this country, and laws we should be working to get repealed.

    Trivia: Did you know that in NJ it is illegal to wear a bullet proof vest while committing murder?

  34. Donna, you are a very important and center of the universe kind of person. You have everything so well figured out that I would like to thank you for coming in to tell the rest of us why you are right and we are wrong. You obviously have a lot of issues you need to deal with so I wont take up any more of your precious time.

  35. Nope–I don’t need to save face. I am not the person who’s been repeatedly busted by making completely transparent lies here. I’m not the person who made the melodramatic exit, with the promise to never return unless asked by the hosts and kept that promise for less than a day. And I’m not the person who was singled out by the hosts for sheer dumbness.

    That was you, Noah. The person who admits he has nothing but “empty time” on his hands. Hopefully, Matthew will ban this latest incarnation very quickly so that those of us who genuinely enjoy the give and take can engage in it without your juvenile behavior.

  36. If calling me Noah Donna is what you need to save face by all means call me Noah. We both know you got mired up in a fallacy and made yourself look ridiculous. That is thankfully your problem and not mine. The rest is just mud in the water.

  37. aha! It IS Noah. There now is no doubt about it. The Walter Mitty of the internet, complete with the fantasy trip to Darfur, business, Grizzly Adams-ish skills, baking/canning wife, new baby/12 year old with paper route, “I will never come back until the hosts ask me,” attempt to strike a bargain with Matthew. He whose one honest statement was that he has nothing but time on his hands. Slow clap.

  38. What is it with people who, when on the losing end of a ridiculous argument, start making wild assumptions about the person. What a nasty grouping we have here.

  39. Puke

  40. Oh come on, Donna. Herb CAN’T be Noah, aka the king of the circle jerks circular argument. He claims just a little ways up there that his wife can’t have any children and we all KNOW Noah has a little one that showed up shortly after (or was it before?) the Darfur mission trip. Of course, he may mean she may not be able to have MORE children.

    But if he does have any, then the question first posed by PFesser regarding his fictional daughter and her underage partner COULD be answered. If he was childless, then maybe he would not be able to muster any compassion about it.

  41. Here’s a good article on the topic.

    Time: Why Can’t Felons Vote

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1553510,00.html

  42. It’s good to see you back around here, Donna.

    A good friend of mine is an ex-felon. He probably committed dozens of felonies beyond the one he was caught for, with varying levels of impact on others. He served his time. He now owns a business, and when business is good he has helpers who learn his trade from him. I’d hate to see people like that shunned the way Noah wants them to be. I also hate the thought of them not being allowed to vote, despite the fact that my good friend is a stubborn Republican.

    I don’t just happen to know the one exception to the rule. He isn’t unique at all. Rehabilitation programs have much better results than punishing people over and over. If you look at how we raise children, it isn’t the ones who are constantly punished that do well. Those kids learn not to get caught. It’s the ones that are disciplined and also taught to think better and choose better that grow up to be fine people.

    The pitiful felons we’re allegedly having more sympathy for than we do for their victims – yet another straw man argument. Yawn.

    I bet that million year judge also wants low taxes while he spends a bloody fortune on convicting and imprisoning people beyond the extent of the law.

  43. You nailed it Donna, we don’t have a string of flakes that find this blog, just one that returns over and over.

  44. No, you miss the point. What we have is a flawed system. Because it is based on human behavior and judgment, it necessarily will remain flawed. Because it necessarily will remain flawed, there are problems with stripping people of the rights they otherwise would have. You are the one who made the blanket announcement that felonies should carry the loss of those rights. My point was that many things that are punishable as felonies are inconsequential.

  45. Ok so here is the deal. You have no solution, you just say what we have is wrong. We have to have something in place.. Right now we have a classification set in place for crimes, As part of the punishment you do a bad enough crime, ie live outside of societies rules, you pay a price, and you lose your right to have a say ion how our society is run. I do not see a problem with this solution baring someone coming up with something better.

  46. Oh, and there are a whole lot of laws on the books that I’d like to see removed or changed. But my personal views about victimless crimes probably aren’t worth addressing.

  47. Herb: You bear a striking resemblance in your posts to “Noah,” who fortunately was banned from this blog. However, I will say that the flaws with the criminal justice system are substantial. Lawyers can be very bad. Judges can be incompetent. Jurors can act from bias (e.g., verdicts based on race). Because of all of those things, I am skeptical about any black and white pronouncements about “criminals” or “felons” or the like.

    How do you fix it? You can’t because humans are fallible. However, you can put a whole lot more money into the system–which, of course, many conservatives are unwilling to do. And, to be fair, that alone won’t guarantee anything.

  48. Donna
    You seem to sit on a pretty high horse. As you sit there looking down your nose, take it one step further. Dont just say it is a bad thing and move on, go the rest of the way and fix it. How would you right this horrible wrong we have perpetrated against our felons?

  49. Yes, my heart bleeds for the man whose wife opened his mail in Montana. The only way balance can be restored to the universe is if we make certain the perpetrator never votes again. And for the unfortunate 17 year old girl who not only voluntarily but eagerly had a sexual relationship with her 19 year old boyfriend. Let us not only make certain he doesn’t vote, let us brand him as a sex offender.

    We shall not be concerned about equality of enforcement, quality of judges, or the competence of defense counsel. It shall matter not what the circumstances of an “offense” are. Herb hath spoken. So it is said, so it shall be.

  50. Hard to believe the out pour of sympathy for our felons. IT is a shame we do not have the same for the victims.

    PFesser, I took the time to respond to your question please return the favor, thanks in advance.

  51. Lori, Jesus wasn’t white – can you believe that?!? ;) I have literally seen people astonished when they realized that. It’s almost funny. Almost.

    Hi Buttons. Long time no see. You’re right. Viagra’s been mentioned here several times but I have yet to hear it from the ‘liberal elite’ media. They may have covered it but it’s easy to get numb to what’s said when they keep doing stupid stuff like giving tabloid whores like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter the attention they desperately seek.

  52. You and I do agree on political issues PF. Personally, I am a left leaning Libertarian who happens to understand politics. I am one of the wayyyyyyy left people that belong to my party.

    There are some things I am good at, some things I’m poor at, and then there is politics……… ;-) no tto be confuzzled with policies… I leave that up to the much, much, much, more knowledgeable people on the board.

  53. lori –

    You and I agree on MOST things, but I don’t think you realize it.

    It’s the fiscal issues where we differ; I think the welfare state is not a sustainable entity and ultimately brings misery everywhere it has been tried.

    However you will find that on *every* social issue I am quite liberal, and on several such things – such as decriminalizing drug use, I may be even to the left of you!

  54. oh get over yourself Herb- I finally had time to read back aways on your comments, you’re the one who skippied the lines there.
    victimization, blah, personal, responsibilty, blah , blah, blah.
    Our laws already make multiple distinctions about raping-her-just-a-bit and killing-him-some as relates to degree and intent so what are you talking about?
    As for feeling sorry for criminals? Pfft. Do I feel sorry for the creep who murdered my nephew on a lark? Do I feel sorry for the mentally ill man who beat a family friend to death in her wheelchair? Do I feel sorry for the sociopaths who raped , murdered, and hacked up the remains of a dear friend? No, no, no.
    But that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about the times it might make sense to return citizen civil and /or political rights to people who have paid their dues. none of the afore-mentioned criminals will evr see the light of day, so why is the extreme the only place to pose the argument?

  55. PFsser said that????? LOL LOL

    ,,,, now your gonna make me read his posts? Dang u NOP….

    Cause yesssssssss … can’t believe I’m sayin it… I agreee!!

  56. Wondering why no mention of ‘insurance coverage’ of VIAGRA for men who have ‘sexual difficulties…WHY are we paying for those “JOHNS” sexual inadequacy /’supposed” functioning needs ? For that matter, how many ‘feel-good’ prescriptions have been covered by insurance for RL’s “need” for alleviating WHATEVER is ‘thought’ to ‘ail’ him…those dollars come from ALL of US and used but for HIS benefit so begs the question WHY should he be ‘spared” ‘discomfort’ especially as it comes off that HE (and others too) seem to figure THEY are NOT to be responsible for OTHERS no matter what ‘their’ needs or howcomes be/etc….Perhaps ALL should go WITHOUT subsidies provided via (supposed/manufactured) ‘ insurance policies’ and just individually be responsible for ones own encumbrances that require assistance of ANY medical designated ‘need’…Seems fair…responsible ONLY for ones OWN and NO OTHER….No other could then tell another what or which or etc in regards to ‘personal’ choice of ‘treatments/etc’. Rather ridiculous for men to be fighting contraception pill but willing to have Viagra available for selves….but then there are so many hypocritical ignomalies in the nonsense being spewed tither and yon and beyond. RL and others evidently suggest that keeping ‘ones legs closed’ is THE best option but fail to address the particularity of perhaps males should keep their sexual tools tucked in and pants zipped up as well (especially if such are NOT inclined to take on the FULL expense of what CAN/COULD be forth coming from ‘their’ own participation in sexual encounters !!!) just saying, just thinking/pondering/etc regarding ZTHE greater common good that SHOULD BE available to all but the path is rather rocky and too many prefer to impose THEIR particularities on others while objecting to ANY/ALL onuses or similars being tossed to them return….a sticky/icky conundrum which leaves the inclination to grasp at a bewitching golden rule….’….first and foremost ,attempt to do NO harm..’

    As to the debates of rights of former incarcerated folks ….kinda’ align with the Scotsman above who sees an entrenched sensibility of puritanical cruelty that some need /want ever inflicted despite religious teachings of compassionate embracement for encouraging REDEMPTION …..rather oxymoronic at best/worst/etc for deep in some hearts /souls seems to reside the notion that there is NO REDEMPTION EVER which is rather foreboding for ALL if one gives full thought and thensome and etc/etc/etc !!!

    As for ‘voter fraud’ issues…..too many kettles declaring pots blacken/etc and is but more smokescreening but we are indeed in ridiculous shape espcially as we(this nation) attempts to tell other ‘democracies’ how/etc and oversee THEIR elction processes (and deny THEM to ovewrsee /investigate) OURS which is rife with few safequards for the ordinary eligible voters while the political machines manipulate the entire system to get/gain whatever advantage they can for their ‘own’ practicalities/benfits/etc. MOST unfortunate, those that have the ‘gold’ do rule over OUR national mappings and thensome !!

  57. Truest words ever, from your computer PFesser, “that Americans have a regrettable streak of Puritanical cruelty.” Maybe with maturity, we’ll realize somethings are of lesser importance and learn to dismiss them.

  58. That’s because you believe in the “nice” Jesus Delurker.The one that cared for the poor, sick, and even people of color, who didn’t live in “America”. Why by cracky I hear your Jesus even forgave people’s sins. Say it isn”t sooooooo

    Apparently Herb believes in that dar “mean” Jesus. Whom apparently, felt it was best for individuals to judge others.

    Goooooshh it’s so hard to keep up with all the different players on the field…
    ;-)

  59. PFesser- We’re in a not-so-cold spell right now where I am, which is decidedly strange for this time of year but is fine by me to have the break!
    ANC is approaching record snowfall and has about run out of places to put it all along with that whole area’s issues with hungry moose showing up in road and human use corridors looking for food.

  60. Not sure what crawled up your ass alaskapi or how you went from voting for felons to sex.

    This perpetual victimization you all are claiming exists out there is not something I will ever understand. Felonies are not things that happen TO people, that we should feel sorry for them when they happen. This breaking law a little bit, victimizing another person just a little bit doesnt wash with me. A little insider trading is as bad as a big one. Do you teach your boys it isnt bad if you rape her a little bit? NO!. A violation is a violation. Awfully slippery path you all are heading down.

  61. Surely Herb hasn’t done those things, Donna. On the other hand, he has almost certainly exceeded the speed limit at some point. That is also against the law. Laws are laws and sins are sins. As a Christian, I believe in atonement. If it’s good enough for God, it needs to be good enough for me, though sometimes it can be a tough thing to embrace. (Matthew 7:1-5 comes to mind.)

  62. alaskapi –

    I have a friend in Anchorage who tells me weather conditions there are absolutely terrible. How is it going where you are? You still freezing your butt off?

    Sex is optional. Yeah, right. Tell that to any recently married gal – or one just dating. That business would last about as long as Pat stayed in the army. LOL

  63. Herb- most of us don’t like it but we really do live on that slippery slope you want to steer clear of with black and white answers for everything. We try not to slide back downhill and argue endlessly about how to shore up the hairpin curves and grade the flats.
    Yes and no to the assertion that it is easy to live within the laws. As donna points out laws vary widely and often times like white collar crime which deprives so many of their property and livilhoods never gets addressed properly.
    My ma served as a prosecutor , an Alaska Native prosecutor, in an Alaskan town known for racial tension, particularly between Natives and white State Troopers and , before ma went there, white prosecutors. The tendency to charge Natives with felonies while charging whites with misdemeanors for the same offenses was the norm. No way would I want to rely on the results of convictions that came out of system like that as to whether someone might someday be able to regain their rights as a citizen. No way.

  64. Oh get off that sex is a choice thing Herb.
    That choice crap from the far right has lost all semblance to a balanced notion of what truly constitutes choice by humans. The current personal-responsibility meme makes every (hu)man an island and all choice good/bad , without answering one darn question about how people really operate or would like to operate . It also ignores or demeans vast areas of human experience outside the arenas of dominant cultural values.
    Look at rural America and all the snotty “just move if you don’t like it/can’t make a living/ blah, blah, blah” from the metropolitan majority deriding the “personal choice” of rural Americans. No responsibility taking by the majority for financializing so many aspects of life there is there? No respect for folks trying to hang onto what is best about a mixed cash/barter/ personal effort lifestyle is there? Just tell em to move and get one of those non-existent jobs, eh?
    Same for all this garbage about contraception. Just plug up your ears and chant, la, la, la, fox, fox, fox, la , deride women and assert their unequal opportunities for health care as relates to anything to do with their female bits is all about unbridled sex and failure to take personal responsibility.
    Pffft.

  65. Since President Obama took office, we are getting MORE OIL out of the ground than ever before in the US! Why are the gas prices so very high? The US exported more oil than we imported in 2011. We are being ripped off by speculators and Big Oil. Thom Hartmann explains that keystone pipeline is only needed to get oil shipped overseas easily. Keystone will not bring down oil prices – raise them actually.

  66. ah…another point. “Operate within the confines of the law” or forfeit your right to participate. Well, are you talking about convictions or about the commission of an act? Because Herb, if you’ve ever driven after taking a drink or had sex outside of your marriage or done any of the literally hundreds of illegal acts BUT not been caught and prosecuted/convicted, you are basing your supposed moral highground on what you can get away with. Now, there’s a test for you!

  67. Donna, how can you say any of these things about me, not knowing me while talking out of the other side of your mouth about fallacies? Breaking the law a little bit? Would that be a tiny felony?

  68. Few laws are perfect. We can all find a situation where it doesnt make much sense. The crime should fit the punishment. Can you imagine through what the legal code would look like if we made it to accommodate every special case we could imagine? Laws are here to make society possible and to protect its citizens. Punishments are there to make violating those laws not worth it. Watering down the punishment will only cause more people to feel it is worth the risk to break the law.

    What about my question? How would you draw that meandering line down the legal code to accommodate all possible scenarios? Do you agree we need strong deterrents to make our laws have meaning and to maintain society and that we weaken those laws when we water them down?

  69. I’m not trying to trick you, Herb, with the “daughter” question; I’d just like to gently suggest that the pat answers don’t always work. That is why courts have some leeway in punishments, and why some questions, like restoring civil rights to *certain classes* of felons who have paid their debt to society and stayed out of trouble, need to be revisited from time to time.

    Just my opinion.

  70. alaskapi: You are correct. And I could spend all day long offering examples that will show the fallacy in Herb’s “logic.” Certainly, it is easy to list the ‘horribles,” like rape or sexual abuse of a child. What about, say, insider trading of a minimal amount of stock? Or having sex outside of marriage? Or consider the wholly odd distinctions that some states draw: in Arizona, being drunk in public is a misdemeanor but, if you are wearing a red mask, it is a felony (I am somewhat of an afficionado of this stuff). Some of the laws concerning obscenity would truly make your head spin, but I can’t comfortably post them here. I suppose that someone like Herb, who apparently has never had sex outside of marriage or purchased a marital aid, or opened his spouse’s mail (Montana) can blithely proceed with the certainty of the self-righteous to make decisions for those who do not.

  71. So, Herb, what about that question of your daughter and the underage boy?

  72. You are welcome to go down this path if you all like. You want to make the criminal a victim go ahead and draw that twisting line down the list of felonies we have in the books and tell me where you would draw that line or even go about trying to draw that line. Laws are not hidden landmines that trick us into violating them. Most of us do not do it. Most who do, do so by choice. Those choices have consequences. Strong deterrents make for good intensive not to violate those laws. What is gained by watering down the punishment?

  73. I stand by what I said. If a person cannot operate within the confines of the law, then they do not get a say. Especially in the case you listed where this person had a long list of crimes. I dont know about you, but I have not found it difficult to keep myself out of jail. If I can do it, so can anyone else. Contribute, make society a better place, get a say. Violate the law, lose your say.

  74. http://www.urantiansojourn.com/2012/02/fallout-from-gops-attack-on-womens-health/

    THE PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS!
    While Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney hasn’t led the charge against the Obama Administration’s proposed new federal rules that require an insurance carrier to provide birth control free of charge to women, he certainly echoed the theme that the provisions are an assault on religious liberty, while steering clear of making it a central issue on the campaign.

    Unfortunately for him, it seems he’s still suffered a precipitous drop in support among women voters.

    Quinnipiac University released new numbers on Wednesday that showed a troubling trend for the former governor. In three months, he’d gone from a positive split on favorability with women (33 – 30) to a substantially negative one (30 – 45) in Quinnipiac’s numbers.

  75. Herb opined:
    “No I do not believe in atonement. You murder someone, rape someone, sell drugs to my children, sexually abuse a child, you give up your right to decide how this country is run for life. Somehow most of us can resist the urge to do these terrible acts. If you cannot, deal with the consequences.”

    Of course you are cherry-picking the most heinous crimes to bolster your argument, so let me do the same thing:

    How would you feel if, for example, your nineteen year-old daughter fell in love with a seventeen year-old boy and they were caught having intercourse. That’s felony rape in many states. Still feel the same way?

    One thing I have learned in this journey is that black-and-white, isn’t.

    Let’s hope YOU never make any serious errors in judgment, Herb.

  76. http://felonyguide.com/List-of-felony-crimes.php

    Felonies cover much more than you mention Herb. Given the war-on-crime and re-classification of a variety of crimes in recent years I’d rather we retain some notion of redemption and ability to adjust for circumstances and severity when it comes to whether folks can vote and all after they have served their time. One size fits all answers for such a broad set of behaviors as are prosecuted for such a a large set of classes of what constitutes a felony don’t make sense to me.
    Also- having served on a jury where we convicted someone of misdemeanor assault (not quite sure anymore why the law saw an adult shoving a 12 year old kid through a door was a misdemeanor ) and realizing at sentencing that the fellow had a long history of similar crimes , I think there is a lot more to the whole issue than black and white yes/no to all of it- including questions about rights to vote after serving a sentence.

  77. No I do not believe in atonement. You murder someone, rape someone, sell drugs to my children, sexually abuse a child, you give up your right to decide how this country is run for life. Somehow most of us can resist the urge to do these terrible acts. If you cannot, deal with the consequences.

  78. Good morning, Donna! It’s a bit of a sore point with me, this criminal legal system.

    There is a judge in Albemarle county, VA who was so egregious in his sentencing – nearly always going outside the State Sentencing Guidelines (more time, never less) and ignoring plea bargains, that the prosecutors began refusing to bring cases before him. He has publicly stated that his goal is “to sentence a million years before I retire.” Not to carry out justice – to sentence a million years. A young fellow I know, son of a friend, received thirty years’ time just after his eighteenth birthday on a drug charge. And there’s no parole in Virginia – HT to the law-and-order crowd – so he’ll be 48 when he gets out.

    I have an old friend, Donna, a surgeon who tells me that he “grew up in Glasgow in a house with a dirt floor.” He never married and spent all his spare time reading and became quite an intellect. He observed that, “as a Scot, I can tell you from a position of objectivity, that Americans have a regrettable streak of Puritanical cruelty. There is no forgiveness here, no redemption. You never escape the tiniest mistake, made years ago.”

    Justice? Feh.

  79. Good point PFesser. And let’s think about some of the things that constitute felonies. Like, in many states, adultery.

  80. “Convicted felons should not be allowed to vote. It is classified a felony for a reason. we are a nation of laws and when you violate the laws to this extent their is a price to pay.”

    So, do you believe in atonement? Do you believe that once you have been punished you should not be punished more, or do you think that punishment for mistakes should go on forever?

  81. BILL MAHER; NEW RULES; Bush won – twice. Santorum or Romney might be able to win if we don’t work at getting President Obama re-elected. Scary Thought actually. Maher put in 1 Million dollars of his money into the Obama Super Pac to help get Pres Obama re-elected. We all need to help make it happen or plan on being stuck with Frothy or Mr Billion Mittens.

    http://rackjite.com/archives/9344-New-Rules-Bill-Maher,-we-are-so-stupid-Santorum-can-beat-Obama-March-2-2012.html

  82. Bill Maher talking about: Rush, college sluts, Mitt and Santorum

    http://rackjite.com/archives/9345-Bill-Maher-Monologue,-Rush-Limbaugh-college-girls-are-sluts!-March-2-2012.html

  83. Herb: The Iraq war has cost a Trillion so far and we will be on the hook for 3 Trillion by the time all the wounded veterans pass on from that war. Remember: Weapons of Mass Destruction??? We find them yet? It is interesting that the Republican War Drums are going full bore now for Iran.
    Afghanistan is not cheap either.
    700 Billion Bush Tax Break per year for the wealthiest Americans for the past 10 years. That would buy a lot of contraception and build a lot of infrastructure.
    5 Billion Tax break for oil companies when they are jacking up the price needlessly and bringing in record profits. Our country could sure use that money for helping us middle class folks get a job fixing schools and bridges.
    -GE paid less than 3% tax rate the last 10 years – Why? I thought we have a 30% tax rate on businesses – bullshit, but it makes a good comment on FOX.
    -It will help our society to take care of medical issues which can be cared for with Contraception, like the college student who lost an ovary because she did not have contraception. It is also expensive for a college student to a have a baby. Contraception is cheaper than an ovary removal operation or having to pay for child health birth and care which are covered by the policy.

  84. So now your employer gets to sit at the end of the bed and tell you, you can’t use birth control? What century were you born in? The twelfth?

  85. Pepsi just shot out my nose. Thanks a lot Herb.

  86. #1 my wife cannot have children.
    #2 that is besides the point. People are actually capable of making a choice to do or not to do something. We do not need the government stepping in on every aspect of our lives to save the day. Remember our roads and failing bridges? Remember a failing and outdated energy grid? Remember all those starving kids all over the world? Remember research for cancer or MS? Remember the environment? Remember we how far in debt we are and how much further the next budget is about to put us?

    Its time we started acting like responsible adults. We have much much bigger fish to fry. We better start making a short list of those things that are important to us and get about the business of taking care of it rather than trying to find yet something else to have our government and taxpayers pay for.

  87. I’m starting to feel like Herb has a point. If all women kept their legs closed if they weren’t seeking pregnancy, men would see the value of birth control PDQ.

  88. When a fellow lacks finesse in bedroom and his gut repulses his wife that will happen, Herb knows about that, don’t you think delurker? That explains why 4 time married Rush has never fathered a child.

  89. My husband would hate that, Herb. It seems apparent your wife doesn’t want more children and follows your recommended bc approach. I feel bad for you.

  90. Maybe just keep your legs closed delurkergurl (sure its a concept that never crossed your mind) If you dont want something to happen, dont do it. Dont create another entitlement that we cannot afford that makes people more dependent upon the government.

  91. Rush gave a half assed apology to Ms. Fluke today. I guess the advertisers leaving him woke him up a little.

    Contraception: I was in a remote Alaskan Village for 6 months and contraception was not provided and quite expensive to buy. It was either food, heating fuel $6.50 gal (no wood to burn at this village) or contraception. Milk was $7.00 a gallon by the way. 50 dollars got one sack of food.

    Contraception was not an option for most: In general, families had 5 to 10 kids and lived in 500 sq foot houses. Half of the houses did not have running water or toilets in the house. They had outhouses. It was -20 to -30 generally through the winter. The Yukon River was frozen solid until May 25 the year I was there.

    No Contraception ends up costing a lot more in child birth, raising, feeding, clothing and providing schooling for the kids. There is a big cost to no contraception.

  92. Exactly Delurker and Donna..

    The American Taliban will do/say anything to try to get their women under control.

    I just think it’s preposterous we are rehashing all of this nonsense in the year 2012.

    Wouldn’t this be called asked and answered in your profession Donna? LOL LOL

  93. actually, delurker: I misspoke. Georgetown doesn’t cover in student fees–that occurs with other universities.

  94. delurker: She’s also a student, whose insurance isn’t paid for by “tax dollars.” It’s part of her student fees. So the idiots such as Herb are starting with a false premise and piling onto it yet another false premise (that more birth control equals ‘more sex’) and adding that to yet a third false premise–which is that Ms. Fluke was speaking about her own persona life. It WAS nice while it lasted but hopefully Matthew will place an equally short leash again.

  95. Not sure which one but it looks like one of the regular master baiters is back. It was nice while it lasted.

    Just an education point for people who think the cost of birth control is based on how much sex a person has – um, no. The pill costs what the pill costs, regardless of how much sex is enjoyed. Condoms are per use but generally female birth control is not. Also too, female birth control medications are also used for other health reasons. Baiters probably know this.

    The irony of this is quite classic: “There are families who cannot feed their children, and you want to take money that should be going to feed the hungry so she can go pop yet another person? ” a) preventing prejudicial people from restricting access to health care isn’t a tax issue and b) Clearly the intent of the birth control is to prevent the popping of persons, in spite of the male part of the equation who don’t care how many pops happen.

  96. Hi Herb. I do watch news. In fact I’m kind of a news junkie. I don’t watch Fox or listen to Rush or Beck.

  97. I have to side with Rush on this Sandra Fluke thing. First if she is spending $3,000 a year on contraception this says a lot about who and what she is. Having sex is a choice. If she chooses to have that much sex, or any sex at all for that matter, why should my tax dollars have to subsidize her sexual activities? These are hard times. There are families who cannot feed their children, and you want to take money that should be going to feed the hungry so she can go pop yet another person?

  98. You must not watch muxh news HJ. Been a great deal of voter fraud this primary. Not to mention groups like ACORN in the past.

  99. Agree about the elections being rigged. Afterall, Diebold bought Ohio for Bush. Tampering with machine results can and does happen. Voter fraud (people voting who shouldn’t be) – not so much.

  100. I think voter and election fraud are much easier the way things are right now. With the research I have done from the 2000 and 2004 elections alone, I KNOW the game is rigged and fraud is rampant.

    NOP, some folks don’t have the time to do what you are able to do because of work or logistics. I am not discounting your effort, but there IS a much simpler way. True, we tend to ignore the obvious and criticize the simple, but it’s often at our detriment.

  101. Month should be moment, I need a nap.

  102. I think our current system, while not totally efficient, will stay in place, because it does prevent most voter fraud. And I don’t think I want to make it easier for people to vote, if they can’t get their shit together long enough to go to the poll or to request an absent ballot, maybe they shouldn’t vote. I did my two hours of public service today and I am committed to two hours every Saturday the for rest of the month. After that, I’ll be doing something, just not sure what at the month.
    Fired Up! Ready to go!

  103. I can guarantee a much greater participation if we did not have to go out to the polls to vote. Plus a VAST savings of resources. I think nowadays SSNs are issued at birth, though I’m not certain, but that is something unique to each citizen of this land.

  104. I didn’t forget Poolman..

  105. Convicted felons should not be allowed to vote. It is classified a felony for a reason. we are a nation of laws and when you violate the laws to this extent their is a price to pay. IF you chose to live outside of society why should you then get a say in how it is run?

  106. sounds to me like it would be a gazillion times more difficult and expensive to do it your way poolman.!

    Ahhh, but you forget the internet aspect. We can work and shop from home, why not vote?

  107. I don’t even think about Rush until he gets himself back in the national spotlight like he just did. I’m certain he needed the publicity – ratings must have been waning or something to that effect.

    And you’re right, if we could just “scroll” on by, we’d all be better served.

    However, the media won’t let it go. They need this stuff to validate their existence. The left gets just as much mileage as the right out of these things, unfortunately. One reason I don’t watch much mainstream coverage of any kind anymore. Real news is often discarded or ignored and replaced with entertainment. Whatever sells, whatever is marketable, whatever improves ratings and ultimately profits the media the most. It is the way of business, after all. :neutral:

  108. LMAO I can’t even get a democrat to come out and vote once every 4 years lol not at all sure i could get them to vote for every law/policy that comes down the pike.. sounds to me like it would be a gazillion times more difficult and expensive to do it your way poolman.!

    No thanks I’ll stick to what we have… however broken it may be.

  109. Everyone should just ignore Rushbo… He is past his prime. He is, in part, responsible for the rise of the conservative movement 25-30 years ago, and he has strong armed his way into policy making in a couple of conventions and even held some influence with a President or two. But he is done. Most if not all candidates wish he would just go away. He doesn’t even try and disguise his antics as serious thoughts or policy now… We have bigger fish to fry.

    The more attention “we” give him all the better for RL.

    Rush is like a sad troll… just scroll baby scroll…

  110. I would like to see a truly democratic system of voting put to use here in America. There is no reason, with the current available technology, that we couldn’t participate in more/all decisions that affect us.

    With congress having an approval rating of around 9 percent, it seems getting rid of them all would better serve our interests, AND save time, energy, and big bucks.

  111. Poolman I only know of two states that allow felons to vote from behind bars.

    Some states don’t even alow convicted felons who have paid their penalties and fines vote.

    There are some states that have pending legislation to allow “homeless” the right to vote but the GOP is fighting it tooth and nail. Hell they don’t even want people who RENT to be able to vote. ;-)

    Might be a good issue for you to get involved in!

  112. I have sent off a donation to the Democratts in honor of Ms. Fluke, the Law Student that is target of hate by Rush Limbaugh. I also told Lifelock that I will drop their service if they continue to advertise on the Rush show.

    The hate against Ms. Fluke cannot be justified. A Georgetown female student lost an ovary because she did not have the medicinal benefit of contraception – that is a shame. Ms Fluke is a hero.

    http://www.thenation.com/blogs/john-nichols

    When concerns were raised about his vile language, Limbaugh doubled down and restated his attacks on Fluke.
    The attacks were so over the top that Georgetown students, national groups and President Obama rallied to Fluke’s defense.
    Fluke has ably defended herself in interviews on national news programs. She’s a strong young woman who has proven herself more than equal to the task of responding to a shocking assault on her as an individual—and on her right to speak as an American citizen.

    It is the second assault that should concern everyone—no matter what their partisanship, no matter what their ideological bent.

    While Limbaugh certainly owes Fluke an apology, the fact is that the radio host owes a broader apology.
    Limbaugh attacked fluke for speaking up before Congress on an issue of national concern.
    Fluke stepped into the limelight not as an entertainer or a political player. She did not seek fame or fortune. She spoke up as a citizen.
    And that’s what is so unsettling about Limbaugh’s crude language and cruder stance as this controversial incident has exploded.

  113. Sorry poolman, but they do need a physical address to register.

    Just one more way we “kick ‘em when they’re down” in this “democracy”. And of course, the incarcerated (mostly minorities) can’t vote, no matter what “crime” they committed or are being held for, though they HAVE a permanent address.

  114. How much trouble is Rush in? Businesses are dropping their commercials because of his hateful and ignorant comments regarding a college student.

    http://wegoted.com/blog/default.asp?NID=1172

  115. Sorry poolman, but they do need a physical address to register.

  116. We have so many homeless people in our sate and in the country as a whole. I guess that is one bloc that won’t be voting, yet they seem to have lost the most and SHOULD have an opportunity to vote. Does anyone know if there is a way?

    It seems like we always penalize the down trodden. Our society seems designed to snuff out the underdog. Not very Christian, if you ask me.

  117. I do understand, why you don’t bring up the subject and I am sure Craig appreciates it, too.

  118. NOP –

    I correspond with Craig fairly regularly. I believe Val is having a pretty tough time; I don’t bring up the topic except in the most general of terms unless he does. I think they are trying to have a life beyond that black cloud that hangs over them 24/7, so I am very circumspect in my questions, if that makes any sense.

  119. good morning, PFesser! My take is that this is a ginned up issue for political reasons. I do not mean to say that everyone who opposes the policy is not sincere in their beliefs–I know very good people who do view it as an affront to (and infringement on) religion. But my point above was that this really is nothing new. A recognition of the relationship between contraception and health is not exactly groundbreaking.

    As for Rush, it would make me very happy to see his show cancelled or his advertisers walk en masse. Although I like and respect many conservatives, I can’t find common ground with anyone who really enjoys that crap.

  120. PFesser, if you are still online, are you in touch with Craig and his wife, Valerie? Hope she is improving!

  121. You don’t need to apologize, it gave me a laugh when I visualized it.

  122. Donna – good to see you again. As usual, I am working the weekend…LOL.

    I have to tell you that, as a Goldwater-styled Republican (in a previous life) I am thoroughly embarrassed by my former party. Jesus, somebody tell Rush and santorum (Ol’ Frothy) to just shut up, before they get every Republican in the nation thrown out of office in the next election…welcome to 1951 for god’s sake.

    What is your take on the “contraception” brouhaha?

  123. Lori, maybe we could almost do that many in our broader neighborhood, so many people in this town lost their house and since have relocated. We also need to make sure people are registered at their current residence, so we will be re-registrating them And yes folks we will be registering Republicans, Green Party, etc as well.

  124. NOP –

    I understood that to mean you personally and it seemed to not be possible. Accept my apology.

  125. good morning, all. Been a long while since I have been here, but the dynamic certainly appears more pleasant now that the hosts cracked down on a particular posted.

    Norm–I appreciate your viewpoint. Did you object when Richard Nixon and that Congress signed into law Title X of the Public Health Services Act? Or when Henry Hyde, whose amendment admittedly cut deeply into the ability to obtain abortion sercies, still made certain to cover pregnancy-related care (and I think pregnancy is obviously in connection with one’s “sex life,” to use your phrase)? Or when the 28 states that have in place policies that were like the original one proposed this year, some of which contained no church exemption, implemented their laws?

  126. Pfesser, I and an entire state-wide team will be registering 60,000 voters, minimum, between later today and the Nov. election. Sorry that wasn’t clear.

  127. NOP.. awesome goal for your headquarters! In my little town in Michigan last time, our neighborhood campaign office registered nearly 40k. We were everywhere! Good luck, love ya girl.. and thanks again. ;-)

  128. Your sex life is your business just don’t force me to pay for it.

  129. Last paragraph should read 23, not 27. My bad.

  130. UAW –

    “Illegal aliens” not “illegal immigrants.” That’s an oxymoron.

    NOP – I like you very much but have to call BS. You clearly have no concept how big a number 60,000 is.

    If you assume people are 2′ wide, 60k would be 120K feet. That’s about 23 miles or so, if you stand them side by side with no space between them.

    Let me get this straight: you are going to register a line of people twenty-seven miles long. Right. I think you made that up. sorry.

  131. what really pisses liberals off is when conservatives do the work that illegal immigrants do……..been there-done that…….

  132. NO I’m not Dave…..
    what team??????
    I (myself)am out talking to people encouraging them to vote(is that against the law)……do you do that or do you hire some illegal immigrant to do that for you……

  133. I doubt very much you are registering voters UAW, from your statement you obviously don’t understand how to do so within the law. And your team doesn’t register new voters, because that works against them. So you aren’t Dave?

  134. NOP….
    Jaycee and UAW are two different people so AKA your ass……
    I’m out getting people registered for “ANYONE OTHER THAN OBAMA”…..
    GO NEWT

  135. George Carlin on Anti-Women Conservatives

  136. Speculators and BIG OIL COMPANIES are making Billions of profits from unjustified raises in gas prices to the average citizen. We are drilling more, extracting more and driving fewer miles but the prices increase. WE ARE BEING RIPPED OFF BY BIG OIL AND SPECULATORS!

    Since the beginning of the year, the price for gasoline increased 29 cents per gallon. If that average increase holds true through the end of March, it will translate to $5.8 billion in additional profits for the big five.CAP analyzed the past four years of average quarterly gas prices and total profits for the five largest oil companies and, not surprisingly, oil company profits are closely linked to gas prices. While gas prices aren’t the only factors influencing profits, they are a significant indicator. What’s more, we can confidently predict how much money each penny increase in gas prices transfers from consumers to the big five oil companies.

    http://www.nationofchange.org/oil-companies-earn-billions-while-americans-pay-more-1330707050

  137. No One’s Puppet
    Denial, like senility, is a terrible thing to watch in a person. Even left leaning factcheck confirms all my assertions. Which begs the question, why cant you and others like you admit the abuse of power and corruption that is so apparent to the rest of us?

  138. I just finished watching Bill Maher, so naturally I’m wondering how James is doing.

  139. How the Koch Brothers manipulate politics in the US! Right Wing money is buying up our country and its politicians as well as setting our countries policies. The middle class are suffering because of the Koch Brothers.

  140. Jaycee aka UAW, get a life. No one cares about a bunch of gossipy innuendo from right wing fanatics.

  141. Wow, Liberty and Freedom = idiotic crap. And we wonder why we are losing our nation one piece at a time.

  142. Rush Limbaugh is getting himself all excited. He apparently believes the majority of American women are “sluts” and “prostitutes” wanting to get paid for sex. I can assure Rush Limbaugh that no amount of money is large enough for me to ever allow him touch my body. I repeat NO AMOUNT — not even a trillion dollars or more — would ever be sufficient payment to allow that stinking pile of human flesh get anywhere near my body. I’m confident in my belief that the majority of women across this great land of ours are just as repulsed as I am by this odious excuse for humanity known as Rush Limbaugh. We are not sluts, Mr. Limbaugh, we are patriotic Americans.

  143. No Jaycee, I don’t waste my time on idiotic crap. Just back from campaign headquarters where I picked up my clipboards and voter registration forms. I’ll be a busy gal tomorrow and the rest of the month, plan to register 60,000 new voters here in Nevada before election day.

  144. No One’s Puppet
    I put up and you shutted up. Everything I listed is proven fact. Face it, your political beliefs are blinding you to the fact you are selling all our childrens future down the river. We have lost more personal freedoms and liberties in the last 3 years than in the last 50 combined.

  145. UAW, put up or shut up, enough with the right wing gossip! What time do the liquor stores open in your town?

  146. UAW… LOL LOL that’s the name of the game isn’t it?

  147. UAWT-

    re: slaughtering hogs. Good for you. I was cleaning up around the old site where my parents first started housekeeping in the ‘thirties and I ran across a spreader bar used to hang the hogs upside down when they lowered them into a barrel of boiling water. We slaughtered hogs when I was a little boy but I haven’t seen it in a long time now. Dad always said, “Don’t name the pig; we’re going to eat him.” LOL

  148. UAW-
    Well some of the burned out bulbs are on the R side too. My Senator Murkowski voted for the Blunt amendment- our so-called “moderate” R woman Senator. Shheesh and crimenently!
    Bacon??!!! Crank up that smokehouse!
    Getting into avalanche season here and found this video from a place north of me. Thank heavens they closed early that night!

    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/video-avalanche-slams-king-cove-warehouse

  149. So….did the man that got Osama Bin Laden get Andrew Breitbart?????inquiring minds want to know……..

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/michael-savage-was-breitbart-assassinated/

  150. alaskapi….
    at least you know how to run the lights…….I think some peoples lightbulb are burned-out….
    on another note I (and friends) turned 3120 lbs of live pig into pork chops and other cuts and sausage ……smoking the bacon sometime next week……

  151. Lori…..
    answer….the ones that think that Obama is buying votes……

  152. sorry UAW-
    my pickup has one of those dealies where the lights come on when I disengage the e-brake. lights are on all the time. confounding Rs during the day (or what passes for it in the winter) and lighting the way for the Ds at night…?
    :-)

  153. NOP asks: What American isn’t happy that President Obama doubled the funding for Pell Grants!

    answer.. LOL Ron Paul and Rick Santorum! and depending on the hour.. Romney too! LOL

  154. I heard the best mariachi band last evening, high school kids, their parents must be double proud of them for also getting politically involved this year. These kids care about their schools and their eventual college educations. And I am glad, I can do my little bit to assure them of a brighter future. What American isn’t happy that President Obama doubled the funding for Pell Grants! And that he did it by eliminating federal subsidies to big banks for acting as middlemen even sweeter! I think we’ve done quite enough for big banks don’t you?
    Fired up! Ready to go!

  155. ?????? don’t know why it dropped my name….

  156. There is less than a year until the election, an election that will decide the next President of the United States .

    The person elected will be the president of all Americans, not just the Democrats or the Republicans.

    To show our solidarity as Americans, let’s all get together and show each other our support for the candidate of our choice. It’s time that we come together, Democrats, Independents, and Republicans alike.

    If you support the policies and character of the Republican party, please drive with your headlights on during the day.

    If you support Obama, please drive with your headlights off at night.

    Thank you, may God bless you, and God bless America.

  157. WTG NOP! fired up and ready to go here to!

    If anybody has a college age student interested in getting involved in the Obama campaign they are taking applications for summer internships now!

    My summer internships were some of my most exciting, fun, interesting times of my life!

    Get involved.. women’s health/rights depends on it!

    Fired up and ready to go!

  158. Hey Poolman….
    “But all the jobs the illegals did are still needing to be done. No citizens want that work”…..
    and why don’t any citizens want that work??????? could it be that their not hungry enough……whatever happened to a work ethic……
    I doubt if to many OWS, welfare recipients, etc.vote conservative……..so isn’t it hypocritical that the liberals (who scream racist) are the ones looking down their noses at others because they’re “too good” to do that job…….
    IMO they should get off their dead asses and grab a hoe handle, hammer, shovel, lawnmower, whatever and do something other than piss and moan and say “You owe me”….

    Definition of Irony

    The food stamp program, part of the Department of Agriculture,

    is pleased to be distributing the greatest amount of food stamps ever.

    Meanwhile, the Park Service, also part of the Department of Agriculture,

    asks us to “please do not feed the animals” because the animals may grow

    dependent and not learn to take care of themselves.

  159. Get involved folks! Talk to your friends and neighbors, register new voters, canvas, phone bank…. We just had the grand opening of our new neighborhood campaign office tonight, fantastic turnout! My husband and I said, we were going to let the younger people do the work this time, but it is too important, so we are going to whatever we can to reelect President Obama, fired up! ready to go!

  160. “The Blunt amendment simply goes too far. It allows employers to deny health care coverage for any moral objection. This means that not only could women’s contraceptive coverage be denied, but also basics like child immunizations, flu shots, mammograms and prenatal care.

    “I’m disappointed we even needed to vote on an attempt to strip basic health care from Alaskans and all Americans. The debate on this amendment has wasted a week we should have spent on the actual bill pending before the Senate – transportation. We should be building roads and creating jobs, not engaging in this war of words over contraception.”

    An estimated 44,000 Alaska women would have lost access to preventive care under the Blunt Amendment.

    http://www.themudflats.net/2012/03/01/lisa-murkowski-celebrates-womens-history-month-by-voting-against-women/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheMudflats+%28The+Mudflats%29

  161. The next time someone tries to tell you that this election isn’t important because Barack Obama is going to walk away with it so they don’t need to vote, show them this:

    The Senate narrowly voted this morning to block a Republican challenge to President Obama’s birth-control mandate.

    The legislation, sponsored by Republican Roy Blunt of Missouri, was voted down 51 to 48. It would have let employers refuse to include contraception in health care coverage based on their “religious belief or moral conviction.”

    That’s how close women are to being controlled by religious fanatics. That’s close enough to raise a blister.

    Donate to your Democratic candidate for senate. Here’s ours in Texas: Paul Sadler. Great Guy.

    http://juanitajean.com/2012/03/01/write-this-down-somewhere-

  162. The espionage act was instituted by Woodrow Wilson and has been used 3 times in history, until Obama. He has used it 6 times vs Conservative agencies and whistle blowers. Abuse of power?

    American citizens can be detained by our government without representation indefinably, for no other reason than being considered disruptive. Abuse of power?

    They are trying to take over the internet. Why? To control the information. Abuse of Power?

    Tea Party members are being audited at 7 times the national average. Abuse of power?

    In California it has been made illegal to congregate in groups of 3 or more on a regular basis without a permit. Abuse of power?

    Obama is bought and payed for by Wall street.

    How can we support the least transparent President in history? We are losing our freedom and liberties one by one.

    And here are your shovel ready jobs!

  163. I don’t accuse many folks of racism, but Arpaio has shown his true colors on more than one occasion. He has a track record of abuse, and that is much of what the feds are investigating. The illegal immigration issue has been blown out of proportion, much like the abortion issue. It is a political football. Sheriff Joe has been riding that bandwagon, catering to the redneck mentality down here.

    Our economy functioned much better before the “crack down” happened several years ago. If there was a good workable policy in effect, things would likely be different. But all the jobs the illegals did are still needing to be done. No citizens want that work, and the immigrant worker system is bogged down in inefficiency and red tape. Employers were not doing their due diligence in hiring, which WAS the main problem with how things were set up.

    Anytime government “fixes” something, it brings about more problems, it seems. The result is many of the farms that were here went away for lack of farm workers. The American worker is “above” most of that type of labor.

    With our depressed economy, many illegals are staying in their countries of origin where there are opportunities. Much of the farming has gone out of this part of the country and we import much of what was formerly grown here.

  164. poolman –

    I don’t know, man…that “racist” stuff is just too easy; I tend to just dismiss it unless there is some real data. It seems to me that America has to take care of its borders; it happens that the southern border is the one with the problem and the folks coming across are – unfortunately for the Sheriff – not white Presbyterians -that’s just how it is. What’s he supposed to do – not enforce the law for someone who could conceivably call him racist?

    It seems to me that the problem is the illegal “immigration,” not whether the offenders are pink as me or more swarthy types. The “racist” stuff is just a cheap shot, don’t you think?

  165. Do you really think Sheriff Arpaio is corrupt?

    One person’s idea of “corruption” is another’s idea of “taking care of bidness”, I suppose. Is he a racist and has he misused his office? Yes. Do most of the folks here in Maricopa county care? No. They think he is doing America a great service. He is a well proven publicity hound and loves celebrity.

    But the feds have him under investigation for misuse of funds and abuse of authority, among other accusations. We thought his reign would be coming to an end, yet it has not.

  166. lori – re: Donna. Is she around? I was kind of hoping she would drift back here.

  167. poolman –

    You live there; I don’t. Do you really think Sheriff Arpaio is corrupt? He attracts so much attention – both good and bad – that it would seem to me that if he really had anything to hide it would have been exposed a long time ago.

    (I have no opinion about the Sheriff one way or the other, BTW.)

  168. Yep I know Poolman. Remember back in the day when we had all the fun discussions about Orly Tait?. Poor Donna’s head would about explode! LOL LOL good times. ;-)

  169. Lori, Sheriff Joe knows his audience and plays to their paranoia. This is no more than a ploy to take the focus off his own ongoing corruption investigation and ginning up support for his reelection. Unfortunately there are plenty down here that think he is great. Sickening really.

  170. I like having a discussion from different perspectives. Personally I have no expectations or desire to change anyones mind. I just like to see more than one point of view. I used to see that often on here and suddenly it seems to have all ended.

  171. Alternative points of view ARE welcome, ESPECIALLY on election years. Anymore they ALL seem like election years. Politics is a 24/7/365 topic. Quagmire. The more we kick, the deeper we go. We need a rescuing like that story of the horse that was just pulled out of the mud. :wink:

    I think the attacks and accusations of other people that frequent here ARE NOT welcome. And then there is the practice of constant copy and paste of propaganda… at least that seems to have slowed.

    As for James, he decided to leave this site for now. He HAS been commenting almost daily on another wordpress blog. This site is decidedly left-leaning. Anyone commenting here and expecting to change that dynamic is delusional. Polite discourse has always been accepted here, whether right, left, or center of the political spectrum.

  172. Ive noticed all the outspoken Republican voices have been silenced ( James for example and others) on this blog. I take it alternative points of view are not welcome on election years?

  173. Donna, I especially thought of you when I read this. ;-) You just cant make this stuff up!

    Sheriff Joe ‘Orly’ Arpaio-Taitz to announce results of Obama birth certificate ‘investigation’ #3

  174. Maya Angelou wrote, “Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean.”

    Andrew Breitbart’s bitter vitriol often made me angry. I’m grateful to be alive today. I wish Mr. Breitbart’s family solace and peace.

  175. Pfesser,

    RP has been steadily gaining, just as I said previously. While the republican field narrows, his popularity has increased. I still feel he is the only one that can defeat Obama in a head to head contest.

    The main problem I foresee right now is that the monied interests that supply most of the GOP’s support don’t want him, because he threatens their institutions. It’s mainly the banksters who have gone all out behind Mitt.

    This is not even close to being over.

  176. Are you sure you want to rule Ron Paul out? According to this article, he beats Obama in a head-to-head. Certainly Ol’ Frothy can’t and I’m not too sure about Romney.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2012/0228/Ron-Paul-poll-shocker-He-beats-Obama-head-to-head

    I guess opinions vary, but that was certainly news to me.

  177. Forty three is way too young to go, I can only assume he had some hidden heart problem. May he rest in peace and his family find solace.

  178. I surely feel bad that a man of 43 passed away… seems way tooo soon,…I am sure he was loved and for thoseloved ones he left behind I’m sorry.

    However it’s one less man’s hate/bigotry I need to fight as we go forward. Hopefully he took with him a little piece of hatred…never to return.

  179. Andrew Breitbart died last night. Age: 43. Sounds like he has others willing to lie and distort to keep his craziness alive though.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/01/andrew-breitbart-dead-blogger-dies_n_1312944.html

  180. You are incredible – thank you for taking your time to produce your well-crafted rants – they make me smile and think and what can be better than that.

  181. President Obama apologized for the Koran burning an pissed off Republicans.

    Thankfully, the true patriots of the GOP are not allowing him to get a way with it. Indeed, they’ve come up with a list of ten ways in which a Republican president would have responded differently to Afghan concerns:
    Invade Iran.
    Drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
    Lower taxes for those who make more than $250,000 a year.
    Make transvaginal probing a requirement to buy ladies shoes.
    Require insurance companies to cover the costs of hiring priests to serve as school nurses.
    Declare “American Hoggers” to be the “Official Tee Vee Show of the United States.”
    Restore property rights stolen by the socialist, Abraham Lincoln, after the War of Northern Aggression.
    Privatize Congress.
    Change name of “arabic numerals” to “freedom numerals”
    Create a special visa for anyone willing to put their little Mexican into an Arizona Sheriff’s mouth.

    http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2012/02/ten-alternatives-to-apologizing-for.html

  182. Hilarious, Whirled Peas! Ah, the good ole days of M&H Purple Party pie eaters. ;-)

  183. @Anonymous on February 25, 2012 at 5:29 AM

    “None of them has any integrity except for Paul.”

    Oooh yes there is….. Bernie Sanders!

    http://juanitajean.com/

    Great “sticker” posted there:

    Women bring all politicians into the world.
    In 2012, Women can also take them out!

    So my fellow women VOTE this November!

    Peace.

  184. Check this out, one Republican presidential contender realizes women vote. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/mitt-romney-contraception-blunt-amendment_n_1311396.html

  185. Is it my imagination or has all Republican voices been silenced on this blog? No Noah, no James, no anyone. Cept maybe UAW. Heil Hitler!!!

  186. Is the Hydra back?

  187. And Bob Kerry is running for the Senate in Nebraska!

  188. Saw this and thought
    of the M&H ‘Wedgies':

    PIE!!!

    PEACE ~ Δ

  189. The Blunt Bill will be debated and go up for a vote in the Senate. The Blunt Bill will allow any employer to not fund contraception on moral grounds. The lady for this bill has an impossible case to make.

    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/marjorie-dannenfelser-wraps-herself-knots-t

  190. Espionage act was put in place by Woodrow Wilson. It has been used 3 times in our countries history, that is until Obama. He has used it 6 times in 3 years against whistle blowers and conservative news people. Abuse of power? Tea Party people being audited by the IRS at 7 times the national average. Abuse of Power? Americans being detained by their government without representation. Abuse of Power? Taking over the internet. Abuse of Power? Anyone noticing a trend?

  191. I can’t wiat NOP… and I just saw on twitter Snowe is retiring! Bad news for the GOP me thinks.

  192. Everybody up for the election results tonight?

  193. Old Republican Christian Men really are the experts when women’s reproductive health is concerned. Ladies, trust them?

    http://rackjite.com/archives/9307-Old-men-know-more-about-womens-health-than-women,-funnordie.html

  194. You can say that again. Even down here in Red country I know of 3 kids (well I call them kids, but they are 20,23,23) that are holding blocks partys in Austin. I am anxious to see their turnout.

    It’s a good start. ;-)

  195. The best part is, two young college women are holding the next meetings, both in “borrowed” houses. It is gratifying to know the young people realize, just as they did 2008, that they need to be involved.

  196. It sounds like a good start NOP.. pretty tough to get people to show up to those things at all… and it sounds as if not only did they show up but you had a couple that are willing to take it a tep further. ! yay you!

    Thank you for your efforts! Our country’s national security, my daughter’s rights, and my” retirement benifits” literally depend on keeping Obama in the White House!

  197. We had a good turnout Lori, not quite as many as I hoped for, but everyone who came is ready to volunteer and several plan to hold their own home-meetups to signup more volunteers. Next event we are attending is the Grand Opening of very own neighbor campaign headquarters, this Thursday.

  198. How did your Saturday Obama event go NOP?

  199. To the point of Megan’s post, and maybe I am missing something, but to puppet and joe, what s your point? What is she gullible about? And Joe unless Obama is a Republican now, he signed those things into law, so not sure what point either of you are trying to make.

  200. Are you kidding me? I hope Romney re-baptizes Rick, it would serve him right. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/26/santorum-church-and-state_n_1302246.html

  201. Quite a list

  202. No One’s Puppet
    What am I gullible about? You didn’t make a single point pertaining to the news story.

    juneaujoe
    What does birth control have to do with the news article? I understand reading comprehension can vary from person to person, but this is a video, and it had nothing to do with birth control, or gas prices, or taxes.

  203. Oil Production in the US is at a high. An aging population is driving fewer miles. Oil Companies are making record profits. US oil is being sold overseas. THE OIL COMPANIES INSIST THEY GET 5 BILLION IN TAX BREAKS or it is discrimination. The Robber Barons just cannot get enough of the middle class money to satisfy their greed

    http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2012/02/about-those-high-gas-prices.html

  204. Megan,

    I think you mean the Republican Party. Megan, YOU volunteer to give up birth control for you and other women or ARE YOU WILLING TO HAVE A REPUBLICAN CAMERA stuck up your vagina without health reasons or without your permission?

    The PATRIOT ACT was a Bush Policy which was made worse by Republicans. The raising gas prices: It is interesting that we are exporting more US produced gas than ever before because the Oil Companies are world wide Corporations. The Oil Companies manipulate the world oil market to jack up the prices and INSIST ON TAX BREAKS. The Billionaires are now in charge if you haven’t noticed. The Billinonaires make more Billions by buying up key Congressmen, often Republican but Dems too.

  205. Are you that gullible Megan? I guess someone has to be, because most of us don’t accept stupid crap like that. Make sure you look in both directions when you cross the street sweetie!

  206. This administration has done more to take away our freedoms than any other President or organization in history, Nazi Germany included. Not only can we be detained against our will by our own government indefinitely without representation. Not only are they trying to take control of the internet, but our religious freedoms are being taken away as well.

  207. A man explains the Teabagger, Palin, Right Wing Policies and the need for basic services for all citizens. Quite Good!!

  208. Very true NOP!

    We have had a couple of weeks in polling if you are a liberal. I’ll take em when i can get em.

  209. We can be detained by our government indefinitely without legal council. Now it is illegal to congregate in groups of 3 or more on a regular basis. The war on Christianity and freedom continues. Thank you Obama for doing more in 3 years to erode our freedoms than any other person in the past 150 years.

  210. [...] And because I know I’m not the only one guilty of critical thinking….Margaret and Helen. [...]

  211. “Who is your favorite politician? I don’t like many, but I like Kucinich.”

    Ron Paul. Same as you. And no, they can’t be trusted. None of them has any integrity except for Paul.

    Here is a fairly balanced account of the recall election where Kucinich narrowly avoided being kicked out of his mayorship.

    http://ech.case.edu/ech-cgi/article.pl?id=RE1

    This guy is a goofy-ass. His degree is in speech communication or some such. He got it while he was mayor if I remember right. Cleveland nearly went under when he was mayor, and I mean it was *close*.. It has not done much better since then, I might add. The Ohio and Cleveland taxes are so high that people are moving out in droves. My sister and brother would move but they are old now and have kids in the City.

    I think I was wrong about the chief of police. I believe when he raised hell about his boss in the training bra Kucinich fired him for insuboordination and that brought about the recall. I didn’t live there then but my brother and sister did. They were both union members but disgusted with Kucinich’s inexperience and incompetence.

  212. Oh, anonymous. Full of opinion and yet devoid of identity. Who is your favorite politician? I don’t like many, but I like Kucinich. He might be my favorite democrat right now that Grayson is out and Gabby isn’t going back, and Wiener, well, we needn’t bring that up again. I was really keen on Obama until he turned neo-con on us.

    But I know, liberals can’t be trusted, right? :roll:

  213. Poolman –

    Do you know anything about Kucinich? My brother and sister lived in Cleveland when he was the mayor. Some of the stories from back then still stick in my mind. He appointed a twenty-something girl as the head of public safety, who immediately began ordering around the chief of police, a grizzled old guy with thirty years’ experience. He finally had had enough and declared that he had no intention of taking orders from someone “in a training bra” and resigned. The list goes on and on. He was an f’in disaster from beginning to end; I’ve seen no improvement since.

  214. This one’s for Lori… :wink:

  215. Pfesser,

    Here’s someone who claims to have gotten 463 MPG.

    http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?p=968

  216. Pfesser,

    I KNOW they exist. I knew someone in Texas many years ago that modified his, adding a vaporized water injection system. He boasted that he was getting around 60mpg in his V8 and was sure he could improve on that. Supposedly it ran much cooler and therefore should extend the life of the engine.

    A real win-win for consumers, but not so great for the oil companies and the banksters. That seems to be our biggest stumbling blocks toward progress.

  217. Lori, they just don’t like him! And they are the base and the party regulars, no wonder they are searching for a new candidate. If any of their alternatives thought they had a ghost of a chance of beating Obama, they would already be running.

  218. poolman –

    I have done a little homework on the “100 mpg carburetors” and I don’t think they are real. Even if you completely vaporize gasoline, below a certain percentage of richness it just won’t burn.

    This thorium stuff is really, really exciting. The Chinese are getting into it in a big way and they are consummate engineers. Best estimates are that we have about 80 years of uranium, and it has to be refined from 2% strength ore. Thorium is as plentiful as lead and I don’t think refining it is a big deal at all. U-235 (fissionable) and U-238 (not) exist together, but since they have the same number of protons – they are “isotopes” – they also have the same number of electrons and cannot be separated by ordinary chemical means. We have thousands of years of thorium. You bombard it with neutrons or lasers and it decays, but doesn’t make enough neutrons itself to be self-sustaining. If it melts down, it runs into a tray below and that’s the end of it. Couldn’t be safer.

    This technology has been around since the ‘sixties, but the Americans let it drop because you couldn’t use it to breed bomb material. Jesus, what’s wrong with us?

  219. Wow, I guess Mittens isn’t drawing big crowds in Michigan….

    Surprise!

    After his statements Tuesday night about how the UAW was responsible for the auto industry’s problems I wouldn’t have expected the turnout @ Ford Field to be more than a handful, but this is embarrrrrrassing….even for Mittens

    I donno Mittens I think you need to “re-tool” your campaign staff. On second thought.. LOL LOL Keep up the good work. ;-)
    ;-) #theseareafewofmyfavoriteopics

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/24/1067888/-Mitt-Romney-s-economic-vision-is-as-empty-as-Ford-Field-will-be?via=blog_1

    .

  220. Interesting stuff, PFesser. I do like alternative energy sources, and there are plenty. The problem though, as I see it, is not in developing them, rather in marketing, production, and integrating them into society.

    Our system has adopted a form of capitalism that must be self-sustaining to survive. Every facet provides goods and services that require periodic maintenance, proprietary inputs, component replacement, or total product renewal. Items today are designed with a specific “life” and replacement schedule.

    Nothing anymore is built to last or maintenance-free, for fear the market will become saturated and the company will no longer profit from ongoing purchases of their goods and services. The most “successful” provide a convenience that offers value while developing and maintaining a market that comes back to that same source time and again ensuring a perpetual income.

    These alternate energy sources that cannot be doled out and metered do not fit that model. It is why JP Morgan pulled Nikola Tesla’s funding.

    In the auto industry alone, we have documented evidence of many inventions to greatly reduce fuel consumption without sacrificing performance. Ultra efficient carburetors developed over the years come to mind. These patents are generally purchased and shelved. There is no profit incentive in getting away from oil. It really is a shame, yet we support the status quo.

    Freedom’s sometimes just another word for not profitable.

  221. Yes that’s it! The Allegory of the Cave explains a lot

  222. sorry – OT

    poolman –

    I know you have an interest in alternative energy sources. What do you think of this?

    http://www.txchnologist.com/2011/the-thorium-laser-the-completely-plausible-idea-for-nuclear-cars

    Thorium is weakly radioactive and will not initiate a self-sustaining fission, so it is worthless as a weapon, but can be induced to decay and produce enough heat to power a car 300,000 miles on just a few grams of material. This is the first I have ever heard of it.

    Thoughts?

  223. Opps forgot to say ^^^^^ is a VA poll!

  224. Yay! Ask and I shall receive..

    A February 21 head to head poll has Obama vs Romney +7 , Obama vs Santorumn + 9

    I expect that to go up even higher before the trans vag thing is completely over!

    Thanks you GOP!

  225. carries, not carry

  226. Better than Nostradamus. His predictions were, well, predictable – by anyone who has been paying attention to the long view of history, rather than just saying, “Well, just do whatever is expedient NOW.”

    The advantage Dr. Paul has is that he is well-educated, and was educated a long time ago – when the classics were taught in the public schools – a curriculum that included analysis of the works of Plato, for example – a perfect preparation for a lifetime of BS identification.

    Now our public-school-teachers’-union-educated offspring wouldn’t know a fallacy if it bit them on the arse – which, if they will but watch the current batch of candidates – will do so on a two-minute schedule. We have sewn the wind and are reaping the whirlwind. I just hope we can get straightened out before Bo or santorum (Ol’ Frothy) carry us the rest of the way to perdition.

  227. “Everything Dr Paul warned us HAS come true. His message is regarding the foundation of this republic. The constitution. I understand in many ways this is NOT the same world, but our governance should not be MORE encumbersome [sic], rather LESS so. Technology is supposed to free us.” Ron Paul apparently is a modern Nostradamus.

  228. Rove was telling lies and got fact checked by Rachel Maddow.
    Interesting facts about domestic oil production and the myth being created by Rove and the Republican machine.

    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-calls-out-republicans-dishon

  229. I don’t even think Ronald Reagan would want to be a Republican anymore. He did raise taxes when the books did not balande (11 times.) Grover Norquist would have a teabagger running against Ronnie in short order if Ronnie stayed a Republican.

    Ron Paul adds some honest information to Republican debates but I would not even consider voting for him.

  230. Well Poolman I didn’t like his message 30 years ago.. and no, sorry, I don’t like it now.. LOL LOL

    and as far as Ike, Jesus, and JFK…I am sure they would all be Democrats if they were alive today. ;-) LOL LOL

    love ya!…. gnitzs

  231. Yeah, I know Lori. Some things do get stale. On the other hand, some messages NEED to stay the same. There ARE constants in life.

    And it’s not like we’ve been doing it Dr Paul’s way for 30 years.

    I believe much of the founder’s messages still resonate…

    as do JFK’s… Ike’s… MLK… Jesus…

    just sayin…

    Everything Dr Paul warned us HAS come true. His message is regarding the foundation of this republic. The constitution. I understand in many ways this is NOT the same world, but our governance should not be MORE encumbersome, rather LESS so. Technology is supposed to free us.

    How’s your freedom meter looking?

    Global markets need to be accessible by all, but global controls should never MANipulate™ or micromanage. We give up personal responsibility to government. The bigger it is, the less we matter. It cannot manage as well as we can. Period.

  232. On one point we can agree, Poolman. He has had the same stale message for 30 years…….

    30 years….

    30 yearsssssssssssss….

    Think of the changes that have occured in 30 years.. and then tell me the POTUS should still be touting the same message? Serioulsy? Poolman?

  233. Hard core democrats are just as troublesome as hard core republicans, in my experience. They just don’t all line up neatly behind each other for a pile drive. To the republicans, THAT is a sign of weakness.

    NOTHING gets fixed.
    It’s constant tit for tat.
    I’m done with it.

    This guy has had the same message for over 30 years. His predictions HAVE come true. Fact.

  234. Poo –

    Forgot to fill in the address again. Anon is me.

  235. Lori – bless your heart. That’s all I can say. Bless your heart.

    Poolman – you have a pretty good handle on the Paul situation. My experience is that Paul is a completely straight shooter, but I have to wonder if he’s angling for something by basically supporting Romney. What do you think?

    Oh, BTW, I’m reading “American Gridlock: Why the Right and Left Are Both Wrong – Commonsense 101 Solutions to the Economic Crises” by Woody Brock. This guy has five academic degrees: B.A., M.B.A., and M.S. from Harvard University, and his M.A. and Ph.D. from Princeton – no intellectual lightweight by any means. His contention is basically the same as yours: the Conversation of the Deaf (Right and Left shouting at each other, but nobody hears a word the other side is saying) is destroying our country as each side strives – not for understanding, compromise or any kind of solution – but to shout his idealogy louder than the other guy.

    I’m only on the first chapter, but he has already defined the “Philiberal” – phony liberal. I expect him to start in on the hard-shell conservatives in the next chapter. For folks like you and me, who basically have no use for either side, it’s a real breath of fresh air.

    Man, I’d love to see him weigh in at M&H or Rutherford’s! I think we’d ALL learn something.

  236. liberty for who? … let me answer that.. the white Christian male is who.

    Because Paul’s politics are anti woman, anti black/minority, anti gay, anti everyone butttttttttt white, rich Christian males..

    sad but true

  237. Actually, Ron Paul is expressing a desire to have Judge Napolitano as a VP, if he gets the nomination. He’s libertarian running as a republican, because we are stuck in two party mire and no one takes a third party candidate seriously

    Republican party – democratic party – not a big difference in policies nowadays. 2 ruts in the road.

    A vote for Romney is a vote for the status quo.

    Basically it’s Obamney versus liberty.

  238. Have a laugh and a good cry, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/republican-debate-review_b_1296036.html

  239. Rand Paul for VP, now I know they have lost their minds.

  240. LOL LOL, true NOP.. but when you are currently RUNNING for the nomination of the REPUBLICAN party… you are a republican! lol lol

    such a silly conversation.. but on we go…

    Ron is doing this for Rand… it’s the talk of the town today.. The rank and file want Mitten’s cause they no Santorum has NO chance…. Ron … has exchanged has promised his support for Mittens in exchange for his son Rand to be on the short list for VP…

    same same same… “party politics” that Ron supports HATE.. ;-)

  241. Republicans can belong to more than one political party, I guess; it is kind of like a person with dual citizenship. With Romney dual positions; one for the primary and quite another when he was Governor of Massachusetts. Who knows who he will be during the general election campaign, if he is nominated.

  242. ok great you googled and learned they both belong to the same party…

    soooooo now that you know he and his son belong to the same party.. and who is carrying water for whom… perhaps you can understand my original comment. ;-)

  243. OK now you both have me confuzzled.. LOLWhich normally doesn’t take much… butttt.. lol

    let’s start again…

    Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the REPUBLICAN party… hence a REPUBLICAN. Ron is a REPUBLICAN representive from the 14th district of Texas.

    Rand Paul (R-KY)

    they both belong to the same party.

  244. A tip for you, too. Turn on the spell-checker.

  245. Thanks for the idea – here’s what Wikipedia has to say about Dr. Paul:

    “The political positions of Ron Paul (R-TX), United States presidential candidate in 1988, 2008, and 2012, have been labeled conservative,[1] Constitutionalist,[2] and libertarian.[3] Paul’s nickname “Dr. No”[4] reflects both his medical degree and his assertion that he will “never vote for legislation unless the proposed measure is expressly authorized by the Constitution”.[5] This position has frequently resulted in Paul casting the sole “no” vote against proposed legislation. The central tenet of Paul’s political philosophy is that “the proper role for government in America is to provide national defense, a court system for civil disputes, a criminal justice system for acts of force and fraud, and little else.”[6

    Classic Libertarian positions – and the beauty of Dr. Paul is that, unlike the fascists on the Right and the Socialists on the Left, he has been resolute and unchanging in his positions since he was first elected to Congress. Bo, of course, is from the Chicago school of Integrity, which is to say, he has very little if any and flaps in the breeze like a dirty flag. The ReBiblicans can’t get over their fascination with gods and women’s fun parts and their desire to control them, but my Boy Paul keeps chugging on – ever-faithful to the Constitution.

    Really appreciate the tip about googling. I’ll have to do it more!

  246. I’ll save ya time.. I know you are saving a life as we speak soooo

    No, both Ron and Rand belong to the Rebluclian party.

  247. Maybe Lori means Ron Paul, he ran for President of the United States in 1988 as a Libertarian and that is a fact. Now the Republicans could field Chuck Nagel or Alan Simpson or even Tom Davis, they might have a candidate that would appeal to middle of the road voters.

  248. Sure – what would you like me to search?

  249. PF… just do a google search once before ya comment would ya please?

  250. “Ron Paul is carrying water for his/son’s Party ”

    How do you figure that? He’s a Libertarian, isn’t he?

  251. PFessor, neither of them represent the former Republican Party. I remember the Republican Party and I used to respect them. So if you want it back, you and people of a similar mind need to form a new party; then you must keep out the “silent majority,” the “Christian right,” and the “tea party.” Let them have their own party, as should the right leaning libertarians. We, Democrats, don’t allow the left leaning libertarians to control our party, but it seems the Republicans have ran out of ideas, therefore they cave for all the nuts jobs, and yes, Ron Paul is a nut. And Romney is someone very few people like or trust, because he has no core.

  252. Ron Paul is carrying water for his/son’s Party and his SON’S( RAND PAUL) career.

    Nothing he is doing in this cycle is for himself, per say. He is gathering delegates so he can make a statement at the convention. Ron has said a dozen times, on the public record, he does NOT want his office to be on Pennsylvania Ave.

    He does what he does to influence his party’s platform.

    Rand Paul and Ron Paul are two VERY different animals.

    If people are so inclinded, it might behove them to look at HIS record, and who backs Rand’s efforts.. jussss sayin.. or should I say “get it’? ;-)

  253. Very interesting. It appears that Ron Paul is carrying a little water these days for Mitt Romney.

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/02/ron-paul-wins-one-for-the-mitt-romney-team.html?mbid=gnep&google_editors_picks=true

    Hmm….could it be possible that Mitt would pay him back with a VP spot, or maybe Sec’y of Treasury?

    If Mitt takes Paul as a running mate, I’m IN!! Yee- hah!! Maybe I can get my old party back! Low taxes and small government. Staying out of personal issues like religion and abortion….

    No, too much to hope for…

  254. sorry for all the typos, even for me, ! LOL I am outside in this glorious sunshine and the glare is contributing to my mistakes.. LOL LOL That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!!!!

  255. I will be waiting with much anticipation to see some head to head polling Obana vs RS.. coming our of Virginia in the wake of this extreme proposed legislation.

    North VA has a lot of “swing voters” especially subburbian women that is a MUST for us to have on our side in November. Those women are sometimes difficult for us top get. I can only imagine this radical issue caught their attention. Us taking VA makes the pathway to the Whitehouse so much easier.

    Someone asked the other day “how can Obama win re-eletion if unemployment was still hovering around 9 percent”? The answer, Rick Santorum wins the nomination. ;-)

  256. A recap of the debate last night with winners and losers. Summary: Republicans are in trouble.

    http://www.politicususa.com/en/arizona-republican-debate

    Mageen: A Virginia Republican Camera shoved up a woman’s vagina without a medical reason or without permission DID NOT PASS? The Republicans must be reasonable after all?

  257. Mageen, it wasn’t dropped because the majority of voters were against it? Or for the sake of the woman? Color me shocked!

  258. Are Newt, Santorum and/or Romney Christians? If President Obama’s Christian credentials can be questioned then we must also look at his accusers. Good Information, think about it.

    http://rackjite.com/archives/9281-The-GOP-Liar-Mitt,-Hypocrite-Santorum-Adulterer-Newt-engage-in-religious-persecution-of-Obama.html

  259. Great article in the Washington Post re: Virginia Legislature and their vaginal probe legislation. Makes me ashamed to live in this formerly-great state.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/vas-anti-abortion-bill-this-is-conservatism/2012/02/23/gIQAxC1FVR_blog.html

    This is what happens when good people do nothing.

  260. The GOP PARTY is now crazy. Even Ronald Reagan, who raised taxes 11 times, could not be the Presidential Candidate this year. Bruce Bartlett, who worked for President Reagan calls out the current GOP on the Daily Show.

    http://rackjite.com/archives/9283-Jon-Stewart-interview-Republican-Bruce-Bartlett-who-says-the-GOP-is-insane.html

  261. Delurkergurl, the invasive trans-vaginal probe was dropped when someone mentioned to one of the state legislators that it resembled too well what was done during a D & C and could possibly result in an abortion, especially when and if situating the probe proved difficult and required a bit more “mojo” to take a picture. And thats exactly what it amounts to, a camera and a flashlight! As for the remaining requirement, it only works well after a certain point in gestation. The majority of abortions are done during the coffee bean stage which is early in gestation. And as I said before, women are leaving the state to take care of business. What’s next? Something like the old Romanian dictator did? Require by law that every female of child bearing ability get an exam every month? And look what happened to him! In sum, don’t drop your guard!

  262. That’s a GREAT turn out NOP! I’m happy to hear people are eager to participate! I have never had that many at one time! Good for you!

    I had to change the station when they started on Iran and how the horrible Obama policies have put the US at risk … yadda yadda yadda.. I have news for them, that dog ain’t gonna hunt this time around. Obama’s foreign policy could well be his crowning glory of this term! (other than saving the country from a total economical collapse of course..LOL)

    JJ – they sure did. I sure as hell hope someone calls the clowns on those lies!

  263. I was astounded too Lori, so tone deaf. Do these guys just drop in from another universe or something before their debates? And they want a war with Iran, just what a war weary country longs to hear. I have 20 to 25 potential volunteers for the reelection of President Obama coming to my house this Saturday. People are really eager to get involved, the Republican clowns are scaring the hell out of them.

  264. The UAW gave huge concessions as part of the bail out – the UAW are not the robber barons in the auto industry.

  265. Listening to the GOP clowns blame the UAW for all the auto industry problems #waytolosetheMichiganprimary

  266. It’s not much but it’s a start!

    The Virginia governor has backed off his support of forced trans-vaginal ultrasounds 24 hours before an abortion. I believe they are still going to require a regular ultrasound but at least they got rid of the government-mandated assault provision.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/22/virginia-ultrasound-bill-abortion_n_1294026.html

  267. Hi Saira! That was me that posted your link. Your blog is pretty new to me, too. Good job! I’m glad you found your way here.

  268. Roz, a number of states have gone in this direction and even more states have adopted this method of funding in local campaigns. (kinda seems backwards to me..LOl ) Clean elections or publicly funded elections isn’t a “new concept” really.

    I know it has run into some constitutional issues in some states and certainly there needs to be some thought put into how to make it “fair” for all parties ect. We also need to make sure everyone has the ability to run for office, And perhaps not all public offices need to go this way? I donno, but the office of the President surely does.

    When we consider how large our country, how expensive advertising has become, how many people a candidate has to employ for a national election it just is the only thing that makes sense if we want to keep our national election “clean”.

    A number of office holders already embrace this type of reform we just need to bring it to the front burner. Start at our local committee meetings, talk to our elected convention attendees and make them bring it up at platform meetings are a few ways I can think of to get us started talking about it again.

  269. Couldn’t agree more, Lori. We have to figure out how to get the money out of politics. The discussion is beginning, which is encouraging. However, how do we get our congress critters to agree and then to act…????

  270. I love this blog! I’m so glad something put a link to my blog in here, otherwise I don’t know if I would have found this.

  271. opps that was me up there ^^^

  272. Publicly funded elections is the answer. But that would put a lot of people out of work. ;-)

  273. Impressive trend!

  274. HJ-
    We can try.
    It’s worth a try.
    It’s worth going after the media companies which produce their ads too?

  275. I have no idea how to really roll it back, delurkergurl.
    After our election here, I got yelled at during campaign de-briefing conference calls multiple times. Cost me $90 in long distance charges to be told I was an extremist :-) but there are now at least 2 people, one in Homer and one in Anchorage who are watching with different eyes. Two out of a hundred is a start, though I’m likely to be dead and gone before anything measurable is seen if that is the way we have to go at it.
    The Super PAC in question here was technically on my side but in reality was a front for power brokers here who didn’t/don’t want to see a shift in representation in DC (nor a shift in their power here) whom I want to see shorn of a fair amount of their ability to affect the everyday lives of too many everyday people here. It’s long and involved and has to do with corporate interests in the Native community post ANSCA (Alaska Native Settlement Claims Act ) and the confusion that Act left as regards tribal governments and corporate land holdings. Since it is all mixed up with subterranean racial issues and overt economic issues it is really, really hard to get people to engage beyond the surface.
    At this point, all I know is that Super PACs are wrong, no matter whose side they are on.

  276. Yes, but who owns the TV outlets?

    I do appreciate the suggestion, HJ. I don’t mean to shoot it down, really. It seems like the 99% would be able to gin up enough power to reject the control of that portion of the 1%, doesn’t it? The overwhelming majority of the people seems to be much less important than overwhelming majority of the money.

  277. Granted it’s not much, but we do have a little ammo against the Super Pacs’ negative and deceptive ads. We can urge the TV outlets not to air them:

    http://www.flackcheck.org/press/press-release-february-21-2012/

  278. You’re right, Pi. How do you go about rolling that back, though? And as long as they are in control, the <$200 donors are going to matter less and less (even though Obama has gobs of them!).

    If we can't abolish the super pac, then the super pacs should be the ones who debate in the races. What the candidate says doesn't matter a bit.

  279. Super PACs stink- no matter whose side they are on. Our last US Senator race here was so muddied up by an Alaskan Super PAC and the Tea Party Express dumping money into the race, the candidates and issues pretty much got lost.
    People were so afraid of Joe Miller (and rightly so ) they welcomed the Super PAC with open arms. The argument is/was that it was more important to defeat Mr Miller than look at where the money came from.
    I don’t think so.
    Embracing a Super PAC when it is pushing for your candidate or issue and reviling others for the same when you don’t agree with them is stupid. It doesn’t even rise to the level of hypocrisy. It’s just stupid.
    Not looking at where the money comes from and why is even stupider.
    Everyday people who vote need to shut them all out somehow and try to support issue oriented debates and so on.

  280. Very Interesting Poolman. I hope something comes of it.

    Super Pacs are simply buying the political process – very bad news for democracy and the average person.

    The GOP WAR ON WOMEN is not going to go away soon!

    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/gops-war-womens-health

  281. Crazy times, indeed.

    THIS is rich!

  282. Personally, I am pissed about the super pacs, we all will be before this is over. We are going to be overwhelmed by the ads. I can visualize him saying, he is against pacs, while still contributing massive $ to the Newt, if you have the money and you know that other billionaires are buying assess and influence with a candidate, of course you would as well. Let us not kid ourselves though, when you spend that much money you expect something in return. We live in crazy times gang!

  283. tuesday funnies….

  284. so are you really pissed about PACS…or are you pissed that its a conservative pac……..or are you pissed that Obama’s pac only brought in $59,000 in January…..

    “Now we know why some Obama supporters may have been so panicked: Priorities USA Action, the main pro-Obama super PAC, raised just $58,815.83 in January”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/o/2012/02/20/gIQAGxoJQR_blog.html

  285. Says the guy considering a ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR donation to Newt:

    “I’m against very wealthy ­people attempting to or influencing elections,” he shrugs. “But as long as it’s doable I’m going to do it.”

    Baffling. He’s for it while he’s against it?

    This contribution would break the previous single contribution record of 5 million, set by… the same guy… for the same candidate… this year… and $21 million for Newt’s super pac (apparently not a single contribution).

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/21/428904/sheldon-adelson-influence-election/

  286. speaking of soylet green…..

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9091628/Test-tube-hamburgers-to-be-served-this-year.html

  287. LMFAO…….
    “Blankenbeker also asserted that condoms and abstinence offer married couples a wider range of family planning options than oral contraceptives.”

    HEY….oral works for me.!!!!!!!

  288. Where in the hell do Republicans get these crazy people!! This Republican legislator says married people need to use condoms or abstain from sex instead of asking the insurance companies to cover contraception. I had 3 children and without contraception or trying abstinence, I would have had many more kids which would have cost the insurance company and society a hell of a lot more money. So, people in their 20s and 30s should get married and have no sex? Steady Sex is why I got married. I think it is a crazy lady talking to the spirit in the sky.

    “People with or without insurance have two affordable choices, one being abstinence and the other being condoms, both of which you can get over the counter,” she said.

    http://crooksandliars.com/diane-sweet/gop-rep-married-couples-should-practic

  289. My birth mother made an unwise choice ‘way back there somewhere. Following that unwise choice, she made some very good choices concerning herself and me. She gave me ‘life’ and my adoptive parents gave me ‘a life’. Regardless of all of that, it was entirely her own business what she did with her body and her situation. It wasn’t any church’s or any government’s decision. Luckily for me, she did not have an abortion, or I wouldn’t be typing this. She never knew me, but that’s OK. I got a fine education; I’m kind to animals, children and old folks; I taught a bazillion kids to swim and to enjoy all kinds of sports, and I’m having a good life. My guess is that’s all she ever wanted for me.

  290. delurkergurl: No I didn’t realize that the aspirin story was repeated by an asshat supporter of Santorum, but nothing they [repubs] say makes me believe a word out of their mouths. These repugant politicos make hypocritical statements and their supporters eat up every word uttered thinking it’s gospel and will get them through the pearly gates [just like sheeple]. I know that I don’t believe anything said by any of them unless they are spewing their HATE regarding women [their war on women is repugnant], gays, Blacks/Hispanics, etc. but more about what they believe others ought to do. I’m sure Mrs. Sanatorium used birth control [maybe before marriage] perhaps when first married in order to give him time to start his career without the immediate worry of kids. He believes female virtue is placed solely and squarely on the female since he’s male and men shouldn’t have to worry responsibility in that area – what a joke. Birth control causes promiscuity only in his mind as I believe that it keeps unwanted babies from being created and developing in the first place and cuts way down on abortions which I thought was what the repugs wanted. One cannot stop humans from raging hormones. I suppose he can now say she’s never used artificial contraception as opposed to Catholic belief of the rhythm method, but it’s quite apparent that simply has not worked for them [what with seven kids]. I’m more like Helen and Margaret’s age so having kids has not been an option since I had a hysterectomy when 26 due to extreme illness, but I’m always going to be a woman and will always stand up for other women regardless and in spite of repugs trying to tell us otherwise.

    Mageen has stated how our horrid governor has decided that VA women will have to have a sonogram before an abortion [as some of the other red states have done]. I can hardly tolerate even someone saying his name. It was bad enough some months back when he wanted to have a Confederate flag parade [I guess he believes all Virginians are republican], but it’s become intolerable for me to believe that I am forced to believe he is my governor because I despise his ideology, and as a result, him. I loved Tim Kaine, so McDonnell is so despicable to me with his repug ideology.

    JuneauJoe: I absolutely adore Bernie Sanders and forever write to him about loving him and his policies only wishing the remainder of the Senate was made up of his clones. I believe he is truly the only member of our government who believes in helping we the people and doesn’t work for any corporate master. How can you not love such a good man? Also, I believe that even a single man working for a Catholic organization who wanted to use birth control is outlawed since sex prior to marriage is forbidden. I still haven’t had time to read each one of the comments due to other things going on in my life, but hope to get back here later in the week to continue my reading. Lisa

  291. UAWm groan.

  292. BFD…..
    you seem to forget that a man only has enough blood for one head at a time…….

  293. By: caydgeRonald LaRue on February 20, 2012 at 11:30 AM

    Your quote –
    “here is a male perspective from one who has seen 15 or so of his potential children aborted. First, if the first were born perhaps there would not have been the others.”
    – makes little sense but conjures up a host of bizarre scenarios. But your other words –
    “I’m actually tired of fathers having no say. If a father wants to have his child and will care for that child do we need to mandate childbirth???”
    – you have a point. Yes you can have a say as long as you are capable of carrying a child to term and a having normal birth. Since you can’t the question is moot.
    What are you some sort of Warren Jeffs devotee?

  294. caydgeRonald LaRue, you were responsible for 15 abortions? Had you never heard of condoms? Take personal responsibility for your past my friend and don’t blame the government.

  295. I forgot to mention…that’s the Tennessee Gentlemen Bluegrass Shack over there in its once-glorious state! It burned to the ground a number of years ago. There’s a tree farm where the Shack once stood.

  296. Howdy, Margaret and Helen! I’m new here! Sheila Kennedy recommended you! I love your running commentary!

  297. Helen,
    I appreciate your passion of what you write. You are correct, as a male there are limitations to the understanding.
    However, you have it backwards… It is not the religions getting involved with the politics. It is the Federal government creating mandates that dictate what we all do. If we do not stop it somewhere then where will it end? Mandate that we purchase!!! Mandate that we provide!!! Federal Government is meant to create the protection for the people from foreign invaders. Let us get back to basics.
    I do not wish for the backroom abortions of old.
    But, here is a male perspective from one who has seen 15 or so of his potential children aborted. First, if the first were born perhaps there would not have been the others. Secondly, the responsibility that comes with parenthood would have been know 6 years earlier.
    I’m actually tired of fathers having no say. If a father wants to have his child and will care for that child do we need to mandate childbirth??? That is ridiculous, I know. Federal government, get out of our business.
    I am very happy to have somebody with religious credibility to be our President, guide his decisions with morality. It beats the crap out of the socialist credibility we have there now!

  298. Santorum says the bible is a Conservative book but in reality, Jesus was liberal and even progressive in his thinking:

    ,…Jesus talks about mercy to those in trouble in 24 verses of the Gospels, tells people not to judge in 34 verses, tells people to love and forgive even their enemies in 53 verses, tells people to love their neighbors as themselves and treat others as they would want to be treated in 19 verses, and specifically tells people to help the poor and/or spurn riches and the wealthy in 128 verses.

    That is a lot of verses, 258 by my count, where Rick Santorum’s savior and George W. Bush’s favorite philosopher sounds like a tried and true, solid to the core, far-out, lefty liberal. And all those where Jesus sounds like a conservative? I couldn’t find a single one.

    http://crooksandliars.com/mike-lux/what-bible-santorum-reading

  299. Success! But now that the argument has moved on, I won’t post what I had prepared and tried posting at least a dozen times in as many ways. Not meant to be, I suppose. So for a new day, I submit…

  300. Let’s see if I can post today.

    Test… test… test…

  301. Egghhkkkhhhhh. Gringrich is speaking today at Oral Roberts in Tulsa.. Had I known, I would have made the four hour drive and exercised my First Amendment Right with signs and sayings expressing my extreme disgust for all things Gingrich.

  302. Cynthia: No Clue. Do Priests have access to viagra with their health insurance?

    Quiet on here today, nice.

    Here is George Carlin: Pro Life is Anti woman. It is so very timely after the week of War On Women by the Republican Party.

  303. I thought this was an interesting question some one asked:

    “Does anyone know…if you are a man, working for a Catholic company that “pays for” health insurance and you are unmarried can you get a prescription for erectile dysfunction? It is my understanding that the Catholic Church is also against sex without marriage…trying to understand. Thanks.”

    Peace.

  304. Every POLITICIAN, MAN AND WOMAN, needs to hear this young lady talking about the realities of life and being denied the right to choose by the Religious Right. This girl should have been part of the ALL MALE Issa hearing this past week.

  305. Bernie Sanders says men should support women in the War Against Women which is currently being run by the Republican Party. I agree with Bernie!

  306. Alaskapi, think of it this way: why must something considered unnecessary or greviously wrong be genderfied as female? And yes, I do think this originated with a man who still had issues with his mother!

  307. UP with Chris Hayes about the war against women: Issa hearings, Santorum, Virginia put a Republican camera up the vagina without permission law. Quite good. He even has a Republican woman for contraception and she thinks the Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot or groin.

    http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.com/

  308. Ron Paul, part time libertarian, full time conservative Republican, resembles all the males on the Christian right. Too patriarchal for this old liberal. Listen to Lori and investigate his record for yourselves. And another thing, what country ever applied PURE communism to their government, economy, society, etc? It just never happened. And I seriously doubt it ever could, it simply is suited to large societies nor does it recognize human nature. Communism is in many ways close to Christianity, as practiced by the earliest Christians, but we have to keep in mind, at that time they were very small societies. Ideologies, of all kinds, are popular with the disillusioned; time and time again they vote against their own self interest.

  309. gotta go to work
    PFesser- I’m no fan of Mrs Thatcher nor Mr Reagan but will think on explaining the whys later.
    UAW-
    The BBC does have it about right.

  310. LMAO….
    things more popular than Congress….
    waterboarding….
    Paris Hilton….
    Nixon…..
    BP(during the spill)….

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/socialism-paris-hilton-popular-congress/story?id=15542237#1

  311. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul

    Go there UAW- there are over 200 citations and sources from multiple viewpoints.
    Also- go to the Thomas page of the Library of Congress and search multiple Congresses for legislation Mr Paul sponsored or co-sponsored- it’s what I do
    Mr Paul is not a liberal.

  312. UAW, everyone including 4 year olds, knows how to google and find links.. if they want to.. there is no need to play sir -links- a lot.. That’s just a silly (excuse the term) troll tactic used to derail the conversation and you know it.

    If you disagree with Ron Paul being a conservative? cool, tell me what in that paragraph is false and then we can go from there. But the ole wagging of the finger about a cut and paste gets us no futher down the road now does it?

    .

  313. oops….link to BBC…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17079971

  314. Lori….you bring up facts but don’t give links….is this one of the fair and balanced links…….did you copy and paste the last paragraph?????

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/18/16-ron-paul-quotes-that-prove-he-is-not-a-liberal/

  315. maybe the BBC has it right….

    “There is a grave danger for American democracy that the two parties not only can’t agree, they can’t even discuss.

    Left and right live in their little ghettos of the mind, unwilling to listen to anything that doesn’t reinforce their own views. If you only hear what your opponents are thinking through the warp of second-hand caricatures, then there is no chance of understanding their point of view.”

  316. LOL is right lori!
    I think my female sibling with her own IT company would say that a powder blue shirt/blouse with a white collar in just the right cut is very attractive :-)
    The female field geologist sib is always covered in rock dust so who knows what she is wearing? She only wipes her glasses off to peer at rock slices in microscopes and sees color filters as a way to see the inside of crystalline structures- be they red, blue, or purple.

  317. alaskapi –

    I couldn’t agree with you more. I grew up in a coal camp and, having no money, worked my way through college by working in those same coal mines every summer. I was there when they first permitted women to work in the mines, and a good (woman) friend of mine, Sandy S., retired there. She could out-work any man in the whole place.

    The question is not whether losing blue-collar jobs is bad; of course it is; the REAL question is why it happened and how best to fix it. The problem with the Left’s approach is that it sounds good on the surface, but if you step back and take a look at places like Albania or pre-Thatcher Britain, you see where it leads. EVERY TIME.

    Who do you think has the most prosperity and jobs, East Germany or West Germany (before reunification)? North Korea or South Korea? The problem with socialism is that it *sounds* SOOOOOOOO good; unfortunately the reality is that it is the surest road to poverty and misery. This is not rocket science; just look at the world around you. We don’t need to experiment; the experiment has been done time and time again. As Thatcher said, you eventually run out of other people’s money. Or, as I believe it was Churchill who said, “The problem with capitalism is that it distributes the wealth so unevenly; the problem with socialism is that it distributes the misery so perfectly.”

    Just my opinion. We know how to do this; we have taught the world and they have changed their governments to emulate the OLD us; now we are heading where they have already been. It’s just crazy.

  318. LOL LOL you did a good job of explain PI… coming from a white collar with blue roots commentor. What does that make me? powder blue? or dingy gray? whatever I agree with ya!

  319. PFesser-
    I don’t think it’s hard to see but I’ll be explicit anyway and this includes apologies to white collar commenters here as well-
    I am blue collar through and through, in background and personal history. I was amongst the first women entering an heretofore men -only occupation. Phyllis Schafly stood as squarely in my way as any gent ever did. I had very few problems with men co-workers (its not a good idea to pick on the person who drives the septic pumper :-) ) but a lot of problems with white collar friends and aquaintances, especially women.
    I worked damn hard to change perceptions of what women could and can do and to earn a living as a single parent, something denied 2 generations earlier to my grandmothers who both found themselves widows with children in a pre-social security, pre AFDC, pre- decent job opportunties world.
    It has hurt enormously to watch decent blue collar jobs disappear and poorly paid and despised -as-leeches service and phony “independent contractor” jobs be all that fills the void.
    I identify very strongly with Tea Party frustrations with the “system” but disagree entirely with what TP proposes to do about the problems.
    I think middle class America was mostly asleep at the switch until things got really bad for another wide swath of citizens .

  320. Last reply to Pfesser about Lori.

  321. And she is if you would take the time to honestly review the record!

  322. PFesser-
    I have to agree with lori about Ron Paul. While many libertarians are socially liberal, Mr Paul is not. He has stood for far too many throwback notions for too long to appeal to me at all.
    His foreign policy stances are more based on isolationism than real adherence to peace, his anti-drug war stance is suspect too, in that he doesn’t have a viable plan to deal with too many aspects of the issues surrounding drug use. While his stance is that the drug war infringes on civil liberties he doesn’t seem to have any problem infringing on civil liberties of women- that really, really bothers me.
    While I agree that good has come from both sides of the aisle over my lifetime, I am always very, very wary of any notion of a golden-age. The growth which propelled this country after WWII started to slow down dramatically by the end of the 70s and we didn’t pay enough attention on a lot of fronts to a number of things. It was easier to yab on endlessly about the middle class and for both partys to try to woo the same group while ignoring what was happening outside the middle. Sad to say we were also ignoring the shrinking of that middle.
    We do this very weird thing in this country of pretending we are classless while yabbing about the middle class all the time- what’s up with that?

  323. lori –

    I’m sure you’re right.

  324. here I’ll give ya a heads start…

    Ron Paul is a conservative. He wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act, privatize public education, abolish Social Security, kill Medicare, re-establish DADT, eliminate public housing, abolish federal student loans, kill Planned Parenthood, end the Departments of Energy and Education and the EPA, abolish the minimum wage, end affirmative action, disagrees with equal pay for women, and wants to end FEMA. He is a dangerous individual who believes in mixing religion and government. Ron Paul would allow fundamentalist Christians to control the government, the very people who would end the personal liberties he claims to fight for. Ron Paul would destroy every good thing liberals have stood for and fought hard to gain over the last 100 years. By comparison, Ronald Reagan was more liberal than Ron Paul and any self-respecting liberal voter would be wise to reject him and his destructive agenda.

  325. Pf … lol lol for the 4th time Paul is NOT socially liberal. LOOK AT HIS RECORD and Platform for heavens sake!

    and if your still not inclinded to look at his record or platform.. google “things Ron Paul has said that shows he isn’t a liberal.”… LOL LOL pleaseeeee look at something instead of just repeating falsehoods!

  326. Yep PI…

    It always amuses me when the term “nanny state” is framed in a negative connotation when referencing the lazy, good for nothing people, who suck off the tits of working American’s using medicare &social security.

    But there is NO mention of the “nanny state” policies of the right wing that allow corportate America to suck off the tits of hard working American’s.

    Or the “nanny state” right wing issues that would like to control women’s visits to the DR’s office or who we sleep with or if we gamble or drink ……

    It’s another one of those paradigm that have been established that really has no bases of truth.

  327. alaskapi –

    C’mon, now – nobody is suggesting going back to the pre civil-rights era or the era of Joe McCarthy; you know that. One can go back and cherry-pick individual bad things from any era, but that’s not fair or honest. To my eye, progress in the past hundred years has come from good ideas on both sides of the aisle, and there is plenty of blame to go around as well. Nobody has a lock on the truth.

    It seems to me that lori keeps trying to slide by the main issue, and of course I won’t let her do that. I will state it for the THIRD time: Libertarians are best described to the average Joe as, Socially Very Liberal and Fiscally Conservative. Lori then goes on to prove my point by pointing to Paul’s conservative votes and then says, “See! I told ya! He’s one of those mean ol’ Conservatives!”

    Well, no you didn’t, and no he isn’t. Socially he is very liberal, except for his abortion views, which I find not very pleasing; it is, I believe, his only departure from the Libertarian POV. I chalk it up to his being a doctor and an obstetrician. You can’t have everything.

    Mageen – alaskapi is right – nanny state doesn’t have anything to do with real nannies. I’m with you on the Mother’s Day thing. It was brought about, by the way, by a woman (Anna Jarvis) from my home state; her house is still there.

  328. What Massey got away with for years and years makes a lie of the nanny-state meme as does what W R Grace got away with over and over until it just couldn’t be ignored

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._R._Grace_and_Company

  329. I reject the idea that nanny state = exclusively a left thing… the right has JUST as many “nanny state” issues as the left.

    Starting with who I sleep with and what and if I drink!

  330. Mageen- LOL!
    I think PFesser is referring to the political use of the term.

    http://www.answers.com/topic/nanny-state

  331. Nanny???? Who had nannies overseeing their lives as children? We had mommies. Strongly suspect that nanny is simply standing in for mommie who was surely just doing her job as in the fine print in her mommie contract..And, yes, she was resented, too! And in some cases, her voice went in one ear and out the other. Just watch what you mean by ‘nanny” and who you call nanny. Mothers’ Day is just a few months away.

  332. PFesser-
    I don’t want to return to what this country was before the civil rights era and the better education and job opportunities for POC and women which grew out of it, nor do I want to return to a country ready and willing to allow Joe McCarthy and his ilk to ruin lives publically with lies and innuendo about Commies behind every bush
    . I don’t want to return to pre-Clean Drinking Water and Clean Air Act days- they are not perfect laws by any means but enormous numbers of health problems have abated since their inception.
    I don’t want to return to days where it was quite easy for large timber companies to clearcut whole watersheds and walk away from the damage they did to farmers and ranchers and domestic water supplies downstream like happened all too often in the west and I sure as hell do not want to return to days like those which allowed WR Grace to mine asbestos laden materials with no thought or concern for their workers or community, same goes for creeps like Massey Energy who took advantage of relaxed attitudes about worker safety and worship of profit a la throwback to the good-ole-days.
    There’s a lot of stupid stuff going on but the so-called nanny state went bye-bye for most Americans years ago, excepting maybe all the crony capitalism and welfare-type suypport for big business.

  333. Againnnn Pf,

    It wasn’t MYYYYY hard core liberal views that I am referencing.. It was Ron Pauls veryyy own voting record.

    You know those things you didn’t have the inclination to look up?

    and Yes, those are facts… as opposed to the articles and opinion pages Poolman read about the race for the GOP nomination.

    Now if you would like to discuss MY hard core liberal opinions on party politics, (which I am very proud of BTW) that’s fine too, I’ll be happy to share those, but hat i referenced was da facts plain and simple straight from Ron pauls congressional record. ;-)

  334. Here ya go Poolman, just because I like you and you enjoy playing sir links-a lot so much, I found this easy peezey illustration that shows Obama vs Paul trend starting way back in May of last year.

    About half way down the page you will notice the graph. Obama is the blue line, Ron Paul the red.. you will notice the lines are getting further apart with the red line gloing south and the blue line going north. That indicates Paul losing support and Obama gaining support.

    As I said up there ^^^^^ Paul peaks in November (beginning) and you will notice a steady decline since. With the exception of a few blips. Hence losing support…

    You can also click on the individual poll and see the numbers (sub sets) behind the data… I think it’s page 22 or 23 of the NYT poll that has a good break down of demographics of that particular polls. Some have those break downs some don’t.

    peace bro..

    and there ends the discussion. ;-)

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_paul_vs_obama-1750.html

  335. lori opined:

    “Poolman… your opinion is your opinion… I am just stating facts.. RP is a hard core conservative… sorry but he is…”

    Let me get this straight – *his* opinion is opinion, but *your* opinion is fact? LOL.

    I would gently suggest you consider the possibility that, in being ultra hard-core liberal – never considering any other POV – one might be behaving exactly like those ultra hard-core conservatives one claims to oppose.

    It seems to me that the ultra-right hasn’t worked worth a tinker’s damn – Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and pre-WWII Japan, for example – but neither has the ultra-left – Cuba, the former Soviet Union, East Germany, pre-Thatcher UK, Albania.

    It would seem to me that there might be a third way, better than either. I would submit for your perusal our own fine country before the Nanny State took over during and after Johnson’s Great Society.

    Just my “opinion” – I could be wrong. LOL

  336. Right farsight, I think that is where the confusion is. I think Poolman and now UAW are looking at articles and exit poll data from the few primaries and caucuses that have taken place. Which of course is the GOP data. NOT national data.

    As I mentioned wayyyy up there ^^^^^^^^^.

  337. UAW, the article didn’t say 47% of voters; it said 47% of primary voters. In case you haven’t taken stock there is a very low voter turnout and I don’t think this takes Democrats into account.

  338. Here we have people of different beliefs communicating in a civil manner but still expressing their opinions. Notably absent is the Anonymous troll and it makes for such a better forum to communicate. Thank you Matthew!!!

  339. “loosing support in all demographies”…….
    “Credit Paul’s surprisingly strong showing in New Hampshire, where 47 percent of voters between the ages of 18 and 29 voted for him.

    Read more: http://robertreich.org/post/15699314832#ixzz1mnr3bAi4

  340. one more time Poolman…

    Paul was statistically tied with Obama in a national head to head in November. 48/48

    Today.. Paul -11 points… 50/39

    Losing support in ALL demographics… … ….

    anon. ;-)

  341. Sorry to hear about your father-in-law Lori. Please accept my condolences.

  342. We are all used to Poolman speaking in platitudes, so I’m cool with whatever he says, new day, new year, this is where Poolman is now. And besides, Ron Paul says he’ll end the war on drugs, wonder if that is what Poolman meant by he’s liberal? Because in no other sense can he be labeled a liberal thinker, Bill Maher he is not.

  343. Those are the facts, Lori. I don’t know where you glean your data, but there is plenty of support for mine. I know you know how the google works. Maybe you can support some of your “facts” with real sources.

  344. hummm Ron Paul is gaining support in all age groups…

    WEllllllllll no, actually, he is losing support… in all age groups. Sorry those silly things like facts get in the way of your opinion…. You are right though… there was a brief time in this election where he WAS gaining… so was Newty so was Cain.. so was the guy down the street… but no more…

    again, lets just stick to the facts…

  345. last year you were a progressive liberal… but people change

    Well, I don’t know if I have labeled myself beyond being an independent. I have definitely moved toward a more libertarian view. I abhor our foreign policy.

    I WAS very fond of Obama the candidate. I’m much less impressed with Obama the POTUS. I would like to see that first Obama return, but alas, it apparently WAS just a straw man. :wink:

  346. Well Lori, I still say most of the youth support Ron Paul. Not just the GOP youth, as you infer. You say polls support your statement and claim it fact. But those poll numbers keep changing, and vary so much by who and when they are compiled. Many, like myself, refuse to participate in polls and surveys. Regardless, the trend is that RP is gaining support in all age groups. .

    You claim the youth side 2 to 1 with democratic issues, based on polls. Even if that were true, that doesn’t mean they support democratic candidates. We would likely need to enumerate those “democratic” and “republican” issues. But it doesn’t matter much if they don’t make it to the polls this November.

    Obama has been a moderate on most issues. In some cases he leans right of center. He has also lost much of the youth that supported him last election. Fact.

    I never claimed RP was socially or fiscally liberal. I prefer a fiscal conservative, myself.

    So yes, it will be interesting to see where we stand this November.

  347. and in regard to your own political views: again I say, Im cool with you “having no problem with a true conservative stance in many areas of governing.” That is obvious with your support of RP…

    last year you were a progressive liberal… but people change..just look at Mitten’s Kittens… that’s cool too…;-)

    In my dreams your candadate wins! sooooo we are hooting for the same guy. ;-) In a sense we are on the same team again….

    …. I gotta go deal with my hubby’s dad passing…

    peace ynizs

  348. No Poolman you have not stated facts in our conversation/s.

    *most of the youth in America does NOT support Ron Paul/his ideas

    * Ron Paul is neither socially or fiscally liberal

  349. Lori, yes my opinion is my opinion, but I too, am stating facts AND the record. If we list the record and compare both persons to what they have said and done, Obama has just about flipped on ALL of it. especially the important issues.

    Fact. Do we need to list them?

    My intent is not to merely lambaste Obama. I actually like him and his family. I just don’t see where he has done what we expected or he set out to, at least not in anything he told US he was going to. No matter the reasons, it’s the factual record. My opinion is that he cannot, that his hands are tied and the threat of death looms over him, much the way JFK sealed his own fate by his plans and actions.

    I have no problem with a true conservative stance in many areas of governing. I also side with progressives in other respects. The problem is most “conservatives” I find are not.

    Empire is not how our founders saw our future. The past one hundred years saw a much needed advancement in human rights, but on the flip side an erosion of our republic and our independence. Our military machine is used by the globalists to advance their agendas, at our expense. Our youth are dying for corporate interests and territorial control. This war on terror is manufactured, along with the war on drugs.

    Maybe that is why every 80 minutes a veteran commits suicide.

    Suicides of active service members as well as veterans are increasing at an alarming rate, many due to post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). A recent study indicates that, on average, a U.S. veteran commits suicide every 80 minutes. Armytimes.com reports that in fiscal 2009, 1,868 veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan succumbed to suicide. In addition, hundreds of active service members take their lives each year.

    http://militaryfamily.com/about-us/press-releases/#iphone-app-introduced-to-aid-in-military-suicide-prevention

    The cause of liberty resonates with me. I’m ready to take back much of the responsibility required for self governance and individual freedom. These responsibilities were given to Uncle Sam and that uncle has abused us entirely.

  350. UAW-
    The Canadian’s argument is a familiar one and there are a couple of similar runs at the same thing.
    At root is an argument over whether we keep doing the same old thing because we know how to do it or whether we get busy on the inevitable day oil runs out- whether climate is being affected by human activity or not.
    I subscribe to the latter myself.
    Rural Alaska mostly generates electricity from diesel fuel. It is strangling the economies of small villages and towns who are not connected to the rest of the state by roads or rail. These communities are enormously valuable on multiple fronts but the metropolitan majority is ignoring them by and large. Many of the villages and/or their rural power companies are doing wonderful alternative energy projects which are paying off in reduced costs to light and heat homes. THAT is what I want to see happen. I think down south, with all the huge power companies and grids, its harder to see the fruits of such projects and harder to get folks to risj a bit to find out new ways to do things.
    Poolman- of course you have a right to your own opinion but it’s a bit rough to choke down the “vast involvement in the Democratic Party for all these years colors her opinions.” thingy.
    My own vast-involvement with the Demoratic Party for more years than lori has been a voter has been as a fly-in-the-ointment or more aptly, a very serious tirekicker. We need all of us working from who and what and where we are to make change- even from inside parties.
    The state dems shut me down and up everytime I participate in strategy sessions because they don’t want to appear “radical”- LOL!!
    Democratic Party here is more like old fashioned GOP than any other group currently- purple with only the faintest hints of blue and only in just the right light can you see the blue.

  351. Poolman… your opinion is your opinion… I am just stating facts.. RP is a hard core conservative… sorry but he is…

    You can look for a way to dismiss those stats,by using my political alliances… that’s fine too… I’m way past justifying those arguements with you… but facts still be facts. ;-)

    If you want to be a one issue voter.. cool… to each their own..

    namaste!

  352. Thanks PI for having the patience for typing what I said outloud but didn;t have the energy to write.. I’m so tired of discussing straw man arugements I could puke…

    I promise when you get weary later on.. I’ll have your back too. xo

  353. My biggest pet peeves – Obama has escalated the illegal wars and strengthened the Patriot Act.

    Ron Paul voted against them.

    Ron Paul voted against the bank bailout. He put forth legislation to audit the fed. He has been consistent in his criticism of our money policy and the federal reserve. He also warned us over 10 years ago about the housing bubble and the problems with Fannie and Freddie. Nobody was listening. Too bad.

    I have to vote my conscience. If Obama starts prosecuting the crooks and cleaning up the bureaucratic corruption along with its redundancy and inefficiencies, I may give him my consideration.

    But talk is cheap, as he PROVED between the 08 campaign and the actual performance. We need severe measures to restore this republic. No one but Ron Paul is proposing any of those.

    I don’t expect Lori to change in her convictions. Her vast involvement in the Democratic Party for all these years colors her opinions.

    I really don’t see a big difference between a Romney and an Obama presidency. Neo-cons still run the show. The proof’s in the pudding.

  354. Oh holy moley- time to wash my glasses and pay more attention to what I’m typing
    .
    Apologies for the spellos and
    “exempting shrimp trawlers from having to by excluding gear ” should have been exempting shrimp trawlers from having to BUY excluding gear at their own cost.

  355. Thing is, PFesser, is that Ron Paul is not socially liberal. He has supported and authored a lot of legislation which is distinctly non-socially liberal.
    The We the People Act and the Sanctity of Life Act 2007 are distinctly non- liberal.
    He has also authored a lot of legislation (which never made it out of committee) which is at odds with other things he has done.At the same time he supposedly champions agriculture , he has advanced legislation which could be decidedly damaging to agriculture. He also has interesting notions of what constitutes private property rights. The argument over fish in the EEZ off our coasts includes federal requirements to use gear and methods of fishing which exclude non-targeted species. these laws and rules are hideously inadequate still,

    http://www.duke.edu/web/nicholas/bio217/spring2010/danaher-garcia/bycatch.html

    The famed Alaska Chinook or King Salmon is in deep dnager because of bycatch as are halibut and a multitude of other species off Alaska’s coast alone.
    The bycatch in the Gulf shrimp industry is still horrendous but Paul, who supports sea food as part of a healthy diet, advanced legislation exempting shrimp trawlers from having to by excluding gear. The losses to the ocean itself aside, the damage to other fisheries alone should have been adequate to require ( and were- his leg died in committee) shrimp trawlers take responsibility for their own gear not harming someone else’s living- but Mr Paul saw it differently. Pffft.

  356. @Uawtradesman that was nicely said by Minister Stewart. It’s true that if it did not exist there would still be thousands of reasons to be good stewards, I only hope she does get around to reading the literature since AGW is in fact not phony, it is very real and we have ample evidence for it. The social justice aspect will be seen soon enough as resources become scarce. It’s too bad we did not care back when the “only” thing that happened was the lands and endangered species with whom we share the States were severely depleted.

  357. Occupiers Protest Obama Fundraiser

    http://freebeacon.com/occupiers-protest-obama-fundraiser/

  358. Apparently, there are people that ignorant PF, one elderly billionaire comes to mind. He thinks pills are to be held between the knees.

  359. wonderful post! So glad I found your blog! You ladies are amazing!

  360. OHhhhhh and … “no offensive meant, of course”… pffffffffffffffff

  361. “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…
    climate change provides the greatest opportunity to
    bring about justice and equality in the world.”
    – Christine Stewart,
    former Canadian Minister of the Environment

    http://www.green-agenda.com/

  362. Welllllll perhaps you should take the time PFesser… you might learn somepin.

    get it? ;-)

  363. Well, NOP, we’re not all perfect, whether doctors or patients.

    But I have to tell you, I came from as far up the holler as you can come; some of the kids I was raised with were right out of Grapes of Wrath, and I never knew ANYONE who didn’t know that you did not stick pills up your twat.

    I’ll give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but give me a break…

  364. lori –

    I don’t have the time or inclination to look at Paul’s “liberal” votes, but I would suspect that his “conservative” votes are concerning fiscal matters, and his “liberal” votes concern social issues.

    fiscally conservative. socially liberal. Libertarian. Get it?

  365. PF, the pill did not fail that young lady, but her health provider did! I can easily envision a naive child (really), making the assumption the pill was to be placed in her privates. Bad medicine! Real bad medicine!

  366. Ron Pauls voting history:

    112 congress (which ends 2013) .. 73 percent conservative

    111th congress 77 percent
    110th 75
    109 73
    108 78

    sure glad I egimagated meself Id have nev er of thunk to do dat!!!!!! ! ;-)

    LOL LOL LOL LOL

  367. Ron Paul is also a hardcore climate change denier and a supporter of Creationism. No doubt he’d be for the “freedom” to open public lands to drilling, as sadly Obama has as well. I’m voting Jill Stein but I would never vote for Paul over Obama.

  368. lori –

    No offense meant, but if you think Ron Paul is a conservative, you need to do some reading and educate yourself. There *are* other POVs besides pure Right and pure Left, and Libertarian is one of them, most commonly described as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. So Libs are neither purely conservative nor liberal, despite abortive attempts by the Dems and ReBiblicans to paint it as the devil incarnate and the agent of the other side. In point of fact, we disagree with the Right and Left about equally.

    I have to laugh sometimes; when I talk to the super-partisans on *both* sides, I am reminded of an old cartoon about West Virginia. It was a map of the United States; West Virginia was titled, “West Virginny” and everywhere else was labeled, “Uncharted Territory – Thar be Monsters Here.”

    I think history has shown clearly that both the Right and Left have some serious failings; I’ve lived long enough to see them all.

  369. So right Pi…In other words .. Paul is as far right of a conservative as you can get. Same same same only with a cherry on top. ;-)

  370. am sure sorry to see the support for Ron Paul .
    While he has stood fast in his convictions and I agree with a couple of them, his overall views are not acceptable to me. He’s a proponent of life-begins-at-conception laws, of state’s rights trumping the Fed every time, and a dud when it comes to understanding the need to deal with private property v public interests as reagrds water, fish, etc.
    He’s a proponent of vouchers for public monies to be used for private education and operates from a place which asserts every-(hu)man is an island. The problem with both the right and left libertarian ( I’m a far left libertarian who sees a lot of faults with my view when matched up to how people as a whole act ) views is rooted in a series of mis-steps built up around the individual, many of which are overly optimistic about the good sense of individuals v society.
    His notions of freedom are of the negative sort as well.
    No way am I going for a candidate who only qualifies in the stopped-clock-is-right-twice-a-day category.

  371. I had lottsa LOLz over that one JJ.. In some ways I think Free Word is better than The Onion!

    Great way to start off my weekend.

    Toooo funny. ;-)

  372. JuneauJoe –

    You are sure up early today! Me, I’m at work on the weekend, as usual – my 28th of 54 days straight. Ugggghhh….at least I have M&H to relieve the boredom occasionally.

    Am I hallucinating or did you say you were a woman? Not that it matters, but you get a picture in your head…

    I’m probably hallucinating. Wait until day 54…It’s kind of funny; I’m studying for my commercial pilot’s rating and part of it is regs. If you get on an airliner, you can be sure that both pilots – either of whom can fly the plane by himself – has had nothing to drink for eight hours and has flown no more than eight hours in the past 24 and has 10 hours rest between duty periods.

    If you go under the knife for heart surgery, you have no idea how long that ONE person has been awake, and it’s usually a pretty long time.

    Back to the grind. JJoe, about that sex thing…thanks…

  373. The comment about Santorum is satire. Kind of like Andy Borowitz but not Andy. I see Santorum pretty much living those words but he did not actually say them. The Right Wing makes stuff up and passes them as truth: Kind of like 17 were raped by OWS folks – not true, but the Right Wing still play the ‘it is true’ game.

    It was satire folks, it came from the Free Wood blog.

  374. Although the man holds some archaic views about women, Santorum didn’t say that. It’s from a satirical website Free Wood Post –

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120215215141AA8KnBS

  375. Just wondering why I can’t find a link from MSM (or even FOX) on Santorum’s speech……..
    you didn’t get that from crooks and liars did you JJ…..

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/meet-the-press-host-actually-asks-santorum-if-he-will-ban-working-mothers-from-his-administration/

    and a new site….

    http://freebeacon.com/

  376. disparaged –

    The story was actually not a repeat of the santorum (Ol’ Frothy) aspirin story. It was a girl from up in the hills who was putting her *birth control pills* up her you-know-what, instead of swallowing them. I guess she thought that “down there” was where the action was, so that’s where you put the pill. I don’t really know what she was thinking, poor girl. We did modify our counseling thereafter, but I was just a med student and they didn’t ask my opinion. LOL

    JuneauJoe-

    Surely you are joking, Mr. Feynman…santorum (Ol’ Frothy) did not really say that…can you link us to the citation? Thanks.

  377. His poor wife!

  378. Santorum was speaking and this is what he said,

    Former Senator and Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum recently told a local university in Nebraska that not only is being a LGBT individual seen as suffering from a mental disorder, but so is being a female.

    “It has been my experience that when dealing with females, you need to treat them as though they have a mental disorder… especially those that are constantly seeking equality in the workplace, the military, and in the home. Women need to know their place and need to know when it is okay for them to speak. They were put on this earth for two reasons, and two reasons alone: taking care of their husband, and giving birth to his children… that is all. Any woman who tells you otherwise is obviously touting the liberal agenda of equality, and they need to be told the truth of their purpose. It is a disorder that can be fixed, but not until they go through several years of therapy to understand that they need to be subservient.”

  379. Poolman I think you mean he has a majority of the GOP youth vote. ;-)

    You might be confusing the polls of the GOP races with the national trends?

    All polls still show that most ( by almost 2 to 1) youth (18-29) identify with most of the democratic party issues compared to republican.

    I don’t know for sure but I can guess the youth like Pauls isolation stance.

    As far as the military vote, it has always trended Rebuplican. It wouldn’t surprise me if it still is. ;-)

    Last national poll I looked at Obama/Paul numbers were 50/39 points on a head to head. This was a cell and land line poll of something like 1200 adults. While the margin of error might be slightly higher in the subset groups, it had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 on whole, if my memory serves me correctly. Since most of pauls supporter are between the 18-29 subset significantly higher for Paul as compared to say Romeny or Santorum and we just don’t see that at all.

    Sorry Poolman… that dog just doesn’t hunt….. and the only real way we would know if your statement is true is a head to head in November and I doubt that will happen. But I can always dream!!!!!

  380. Pardon, I meant delurker.

  381. Delucker, to answer your question, I think there is an excellent chance Mrs. Santorum has used birth control. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/01/15/mrs-santorum-s-abortion-doctor-boyfriend.html

  382. Lori, there are plenty of articles showing Ron Paul’s support with the youth. Mostly college youth, some that voted for Obama. Many have gotten disappointed with Obama and Paul’s message resonates with them. His message has not changed, but the times certainly have.

    It is no question the active military supports him, well over all the others, including Obama. I noticed you didn’t question that. As to elaborate my claim, there are dozens of links, but here is one for you…

    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/main-attraction-what-makes-us-youth-gravitate-ron-paul

  383. Well Poolman, most of us do know about business cycles. It is really the policiticans, of all persuasions I might add, who exploit gullible masses. Presidents might not directly create jobs, but they do set some of the agenda and can push congress to vote on measures that might have direct impact on the economy be they positive, such as saving the auto industry (for now) or negative, such as funding two wars, which ballooned the deficit. I do like Ron Paul’s anti-war stance. However, a lot of his ideas are not workable in today’s world unless we are advocating anarchy.

  384. Most youth are Ron Paul supporters?

    Care to elaborate on that Poolman?

  385. I’m glad everyone is getting back to civil discussion. I know most of you are die hard democrats. Right now the party appears positive as long as the republicans are tearing each other apart. I’ll stick to my independent status, as I haven’t been to keen on either party.

    Obama’s got a long way to go to get back my confidence. I will continue to pray for him daily, but as for my vote, well right now I’m holding out for Ron Paul. He’s the only one talking close to my language. Too many others in the Obama administration do not act in our best interest, I fear. We didn’t get to vote them in and they more control us.

    I haven’t felt that our leaders have had much say in the direction we go in. I’m not keen on party politics. Both parties have crapped on us. They owe too much to those that put them there and are busy securing their own futures and those of their buddies Those we vote in seem to have little to do regarding changing foreign policy or economic policy. They talk a big talk, but in the end small things get done, and usually at great cost.

    Face it, business runs this country. Obama can no more produce jobs than any other president. It takes business to produce those jobs. And right now it is global business that runs the show. These folks don’t always have skin in the game.

    There is a multitude of under-the-table crap that goes on in DC that occasionally leaks over into mainstream news. Our leaders are treated to the very best and enjoy many benefits and luxuries paid for by us. They are privy to insider trading tips, have no imposed term limits, can work for the corporations vying for government “business” and can lobby for those interests. Aside from benefits, they receive plenty of gifts. It’s privilege we don’t get. And we bail out the rich. Over and over and over…

    It’s all about power and money.

    Money, money, money money… ♪♫♪

    We’ve been supporting a bunch of criminals while enabling the grandest corruption ever to fly under two crooked wings. Party politics sucks.

    Listen to the youth, they have the most to lose. Most are RP supporters, like the active troops.

  386. Loving the discussion ladies! The good economic news could not be bottled up any longer could they? Companies could no longer delay replacing parts, and hiring needed personnel or they would have started to really hurt themselves. As badly as many wanted to do it, they could not postpone doing the obvious for their companies anymore. They believed the crap about Obama being anti-business and sure did not want him getting any credit for the recovery. Diversion, diversion. I think a whole lot of people are seeing through it though. And so our friend obstructionists on the right are left with nothing of substance and everything is backfiring on them. Contraception? The right is very dismissive of women and we will show them.

    Lori, love the FB caption you quoted. ” Nope, no jobs in there” all right! Brilliant!

  387. Disparaged, did you hear the aspirin story was repeated by an asshat Santorum supporter? You see, avoiding pregnancy is solely a matter of female virtue. :rolleyes: Santorum threw a highly un-presidential fit about being asked about it on CBS this morning. He distanced himself from the joke before going off on another tirade about how birth control causes promiscuity. I wonder if his wife ever used birth control? Often what he says is undermined by what she does.

  388. Is that really true, Jedda, or is it an urban legend. :D I tried to find the Fast Company article but all I saw was a list of great blogs and a link.

  389. Pfesser: you are such a delight. I had heard what others say about NoVa as opposed to the remainder of our state, so I know you are fortunate to live in an area that is very much like the Eastern Shore of MD. When much younger, I lived there for a few years as my husband was from a small town there, and like you we could leave our house and cars unlocked without worry. Alas, today I don’t know that that is still the case, but I would hope so. And your sense of humor is a real treat so you keep on enjoying your toddies and sittin’ by your pond if it means you will continue to treat us all to your wonderful comments.

    BTW, your story with the aspirin and knees was too funny and to think it is true is just too hard to believe, but anything is possible! It takes a lot to make me laugh out loud but that story hit the nail squarely on the funny bone. Thanks for sharing.

    It appears you and Poolman had the same idea of sharing several of Judge Napolitano’s views and rightly, it matters not who you like or dislike, his views force one to think – which is a good thing. See you next H&M post. Lisa

  390. Barbara W. I’ve listened to them on the radio and read about them in Fast Company Magazine. They seemed pretty real to me. Someone on here said she saw them on MSNBC as well.

  391. Juneau Joe, that so-called sonogram that was written into legislation in Virginia is tooooo strange for words. In the earliest part of a pregnancy, all the sonogram would find is something about the size of a coffee bean which means it is really too small to be sonogrammed. Thats the reason for the probe and I agree, it is as invasive as rape especially since 1.) the patient has no say in the matter and 2.) no one will pay attention if the patient screams No. This is definitely headed for a court decision and not because it victimizes women but because it costs money. Right now you can bet that women are leaving the state to take care of their business.

  392. Amen NOP.. Faith not fear… We’ve come a long way baby, lets keep going forward!

  393. You betcha, things used to be so great, if only we could return to those good old days. Quite frankly, I’m not afraid of the future, I want to work for a brighter tomorrow, who is with me?

  394. pfesser

    You mean where the males controlled the government and slavery is okay with you, right?

  395. NOP, lori –

    Napolitano is not a Republican. Not even close.

    Nor am I. Not even close.

    Government works fine. Just not this one. Nor the one under Bush. Nor Clinton. Rinse and repeat.

    Try one like the one we had for the FIRST two hundred years – you know, the one where the people controlled the government, not the other way ’round? A government like Jefferson, Adams, Washington and all those other dead white men had envisioned.

    It will come, and those folks in Washington – on both sides of the aisles know it. That is why they are desperately trying to institute a Great Firewall Of America, like the one China has now – so that in a “national emergency” they can turn off the Internet in its entirety.

    Won’t happen.

  396. NOP exactly.. and we have an economy that is showing signs of recovery. Pretty damn good all things considered eh?

  397. PFessor sorry, 10 seconds into your video and I thought, I know where this going, it is the same old Republican mantra, government doesn’t work. Well it sure doesn’t when they are involved. I am sticking with our President and will do all I can to get him reelected to four more years. And I am going to work twice as hard to elect Senators and Representatives, who are prepared to do what is right for the country.
    Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive, that is all anyone needs to know!

  398. Great Post! Wish you two were for real!
    Still enjoyed the writing though.

  399. LOL LOL @ Cynthia I’m all for electing women… But then think of SP and MB… Im pretty sure if push come to shove I’d rather have Joe and Barack tending my lady parts!

    Soooooo Im not ready to make that blanket statement just yet! LOL

  400. Rachel Maddow and Elizabeth Warren on Viagra, Contraception and giving businesses/religious organizations the ability to away women’s rights. Well worth watching.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46422252#46422252

  401. lori –
    This is why we need to elect more WOMEN into government. This obsession men have with women’s parts tells you what they have on the minds 99% of the time and why they are always scr*wing and fu*cking up things; it is all they can think about. eh?

    Peace.

  402. Helen, you sound just like Molly Ivins, the opinion writer from Texas. How I miss her ramblings. Unfortunately, your opinions could not be published in today’s newspapers, even if you substituted the salty language. Your words would be a breath of fresh air for the public. Don’t stop writing!

  403. lori –

    Good to see you back!

    I can’t begin to tell you how disgusting and embarrassing it is to see my former Republican friends’ irrational hatred of Obama. I find many of his policies completely off-track, but these people wouldn’t give him credit for being a damned good whistler or just a decent human being.

    I guess it’s their dishonesty about the fact that not only does he have some GOOD ideas, some of theirs – like their somewhat disturbing fascination with women’s reproductive organs – is so far out that nobody but themselves takes them seriously. I’m not ABOUT to vote for such self-deluded zealots.

  404. @ Dawn and Cynthia, I saw a funny status on FB. It was a cartoon-like illustration of a woman’s reproductive system, titling the various parts and the caption read… Nope no jobs in there, my Doctor checked. ;-)

    For people that were so hyped up to talk about jobs this election cycle, it sure is funny that now they want to talk about birth control and lady parts.. LOL I’m sure it has nothing to do with the fact that jobs (non public sector too) are coming back at a good rate… … Nawwwwww that couldn’t be it. ;-)

  405. A little OT –

    About fifteen years ago I left the ReBiblican party and joined the Libertarians. Since that time I have watched both parties trample on our freedoms; probably the worst was actually Janet Reno, under Clinton. The PATRIOT act, under Bush-the-Lesser, was blatantly unconstitutional by any measure, but the Congress just ignored the Constitution and took more of our liberties. Later I voted for Obama, but he has continued the march from a republic to a totalitarian regime ever-faster.

    Judge Andrew Napolitano is hated by both sides – like Ron Paul. The fascists on one side and the socialists on the other see him daily trying to tear their little playhouse down, and they don’t like it. I submit the following video, not to piss everybody off, but to suggest that there is a THIRD way, and a helluva lot of people are coming around to that way of thinking. Ron Paul was practically mobbed by his admirers last night, in contrast to santorum (Ol’ Frothy), who was nearly booed off the stage. If you like the video or don’t I would appreciate comments. Thanks. PFesser.

  406. Cynthia, you’re right. Economy is better, unemployment is decreased. All are in need of improvement, but still improved. Best way to get the base excited is to bring out the guns, gays and abortion arguements again.

  407. Wasn’t it Nazi Germany where they decided who should breed and who shouldn’t.?

  408. A man has a heart attack while eating a 10,000 calorie burger at the Heart Attack Grill in Las Vegas. People were taking pictures of him during his heart attack thinking it was a show. (I have eaten there.) The man is now in the hospital.

    http://www.newsy.com/videos/man-has-heart-attack-at-heart-attack-grill

  409. Some people should not breed

    In Virginia, they just passed a bill that REQUIRES a vaginal probe with a device before an abortion can be given. THIS IS WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE FEMALE. Sounds like small government (Republican) government to me. They hypocrisy of conservatives is so very amazing to me. Start a war on lies is fine (Thousands killed) but if a raped woman chooses an abortion,she is required to stick a government camera up her vagina.

    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/karoli/conservatives-horrible-hypocrisy-womens-hea

  410. some people shouldn’t breed….

    LOL. Unfortunately those are usually the ones that do… and do… and do… and do…

  411. prof…
    some people shouldn’t breed….

  412. Pfesser…I should think your “counseling” is to blame….obviously not thorough enough. You idiot.

  413. Cynthia –

    re: aspirin and knees.

    When I was in med school, I participated in a program for rural girls who had been identified as “at risk” – if you know what I mean. We counseled them and provided birth control pills.

    You could imagine my surprise when a fourteen year-old turned up for clinic pregnant.

    “What’s going on? We’ve had you on birth control pills for over a year! Are you taking them?”

    “Yes.”

    “You’re sure…”

    “Yes.”

    “There’s something wrong here. These are high-dose pills. You should not be able to get pregnant if you’re taking them.”

    “Well, to be honest with you, I don’t think they work anyway. THEY KEEP FALLING OUT.”

    Absolutely true story. I had to excuse myself from the room and go take a walk before I went back.

  414. Who cares whether or not D&Cs are counted as abortions, who cares if some $ guy says women should hold asprins between their legs as birth control>??? Choice is choice… period… this stuff has BEEN debated time and time again. stop wasting energy debating decided law.

    Straw man aguements…

    Host a woman’s Obama party.. get on the phone and register non voters, write a letter to your congressperson and demand cancer drugs get to kids they need to get to. Walk over to your neighbors and start a conversation about the GOP plans to get ANYONE with fingers into the White House to sign T party legislation..

    namaste!

  415. Dawn

    I am confused. These men sound as if sex/pregnancy is something a woman does all by herself. Or she is unable to control her actions. I can’t count the number of men who tried to remove that aspirin I held between my knees!

    Peace.

  416. Foster Friess, Santorum’s major money supporter just told Andrea Mitchell on her show that there was a time when a woman used an aspirin between her knees for birth control and that was okay. Mageen… we are still back there.

  417. UAW, I don’t know if D&C’s are included in abortion stats.

    Mageen, I didn’t realize women were ostrascized for a hydantaform mole. I shouldn’t be surprised. It hasn’t been that long since it was the woman’s shame when she was raped. (some would argue it still is)

  418. the cookbook doesn’t have to be all deserts……just made a cabbage, hamburger, vegetable, barley soup/ tomatoes(or V-8)

  419. I wonder if the salmon bacon is sorta like lox…..

  420. It’s nice to see a fair and balanced news…..wait…..so that how crooks and liars got its name…….

  421. UAW-
    that is a cool site- all those recipes! Thanks!
    Did you sniff this story clear from where you are?

    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/award-winning-alaska-salmon-bacon-inspiration-processed-meat-allergies

    I’m going to call that gent and order some salmon bacon.I’ve never met a salmon food thing I don’t like
    Not sure it would work in Helen’s turkey stuffing but gonna try it in a BLT!

  422. Rick Santorum – 12 special holiday cards for a variety of groups. Written as only Santorum can think.

    http://rackjite.com/archives/9229-A-dozen-Holiday-Cards-from-Rick-Santorum,-Dougs-Dozen-Video.html

  423. The Breitbart Occupy Wall Street accusations of 17 rapes by OCS people are checked out and proven to be lies and/or distortions or calling the victim the criminal.

    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/olbermann-debunking-breitbarts-occupy-rape

  424. UAW: I live in a state in which a number of the very high profile anti-abortion groups have been active. They publicly take the position that a miscarriage is the death of a baby, regardless of age, and hold funerals. One of their more dramatic “protests” involved posting the products of even the earliest miscarriages on signs and in jars.

  425. Dawn, what these guys just don’t know nor do they even care to know. They just exist to jibber their jabber all over the place whether its in a bar, a barber shop or on the campaign trail. Miscarriages, tubal pregnancies and all sorts of other things uterine really don’t matter to them in their lifetime hobby of throwing in the clutch on their mouths before engaging the brain. Way back in colonial times in this country a woman developed a hydatiform mole in her most private place and when this info got out the men in the community, especially the “leadership” which usually consisted of clergy, thought she was a witch. Especially when the mole resolved itself through expulsion — not birth — but expulsion. She had to leave that community.

    Now if women were jibbering about something penile, their reaction would probably be atomic. Just sayin’ . . .

    Cynthia, good question about shouting it all from the housetops. I think people have noticed. Stuff like this has its own way of getting out into the stream. I know Margaret and Helen have noticed!!!

  426. “pack your chutes people no ones flying this plane”….Jon Stewart on congress…

  427. Dawn…
    the reason I asked was is a miscarriage then included statistically with total abortions in a year……..which is around 1.2 million a year……..

  428. great question, Dawn.

  429. Dawn, that’s a great question. I have wondered about that too.

  430. Here’s Jon Stewart’s take on Hannity interviewing only men…

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-february-13-2012/the-vagina-ideologues—sean-hannity-s-holy-sausage-fest

  431. UAW, I believe (as it stands now) a D&C for a pregnancy that is no longer viable is coded as “Missed AB” which is missed abortion. That’s what my PMD wrote on my admission papers for me.

    A question I would have for Santorum would be where does he stand on ectopic pregnancies? For nonmedical porch dwellers, it’s when th embryo implants in the fallopian tube. It is a nonviable fetus because the tube will burst somewhere around 12 weeks. If it is not removed (aborted) the mother WILL die when the tube ruptures. Has anyone heard his thoughts about that? (not that I really care what Santorum thinks anyway)

  432. PFesser –
    Perhaps it was the remark about Richmond’s Monument Avenue being….The Avenue of Second Place Winners!

    My experience was with “business” people who thought it was impolite to say No so they said Yes but didn’t mean it. It wasn’t asking for a favor or out of the ordinary, I would be paying or doing my part… I do accept NO for an answer…and I did say please. I learned.

    “Come heres” I think it was that we expected more and did make small waves at times. When I asked why would you print your name, address, phone # and SS# on your bank check people would ask why not? King William was rural and people were very laid back and accepting of things as they were.

    I grew up in Florida it was not like I was a full blooded Yankee!

    Peace.

  433. Cynthia –

    I’m a transplant, too, but I have had no problem being accepted. I guess the fact that I can “tawk” like they do helps. Also growing up in a very rural area gives me familiarity with huntin’, fishin’, cars and engines, plowin’ and growin’ a garden. Oh, and guns. You gotta be able to talk guns.

    As for the Civil War, it will help you be accepted if you refer to it as the War of Yankee Agression. LOL

    I don’t see why you think it unusual about being called a “come here.” I’ve never heard that term, but I think I know what it means. Even having children in the South doesn’t automatically make you a Southerner. What they say down here is that, if the cat had kittens in the oven, you wouldn’t call ‘em biscuits, would you? Heheeeeee…

    As for not sayin’ what they mean, it’s very true. They can be as mean-spirited as anybody else, but they don’t want to be overtly impolite. Watch out if they say, “Bless his heart.” There are two diametrically opposed meanings: One would be, for example, if the neighbor had a severely handicapped child. You would say, “Bless his heart.” That means genuine sympathy.

    If somebody is an idiot, they also say, “Bless his heart.” That means he’s an idiot and they are too polite to say so. It is a real insult.

    I hope that helps. LOL.

  434. This is really important to me, and to a child I dearly love.

    There is a major shortage of Methotrexate right now. It’s a drug that is critical for treatment of ALL (a form of leukemia). Legislation that would help manage shortages for lifesaving drugs has been stuck in congress. Apparently kids with leukemia need richer lobbyists.

    Please send a letter to your congress and senate critters. This site makes it VERY easy.

    This site also has information about contacting the manufacturers of Methotrexate: http://curechildhoodcancer.ning.com/

    If you’re interested in donating for cancer research, check out http://www.charitynavigator.org. My money goes to CureSearch.org, and NOT to ACS.

    Thank you!

  435. alaskapi….
    Sorry about the BBQ but here’s the (big deep SNIFF) of the Canadian bacon I’ve got smoking right now…..best I can do over the internet…..

    google len poli

  436. I lived in the Richmond/King William area for 7 years. I really like VA and the people but for two things, maybe three. They are still fighting the Civil War, they don’t always mean what they say and found it very hard to understand when they did and some referred to us out of staters as “come heres” and treated as such. Very different from NJ. I have to admit I have never locked my house even in NJ. If someone wants to get in a locked door won’t stop them but big dogs will give them second thoughts!

    Peace.

  437. mageen in old virginny

    “The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent” eh?

    When I think about it you are absolutely correct. I just never heard it put into these words. And perhaps I am not the only one. This can’t be America’s future?! Is it time to shout this information from the roof tops?

    Peace.

  438. re: voting folks off the board.

    I think that’s a bad idea, even if you could do it. Trying to get rid of people who disagree with you makes you indistinguishable from those you claim to oppose.

    As Tony Hendra said in Nat Lampoon, two wrongs don’t make a right.

    However, three do.

    LOL

  439. disparaged –

    Thanks for the nice note. re: Virginia. You know that a lot of folks refer to “Virginia” and “NOVA” – Northern Virginia – as two separate and distinct places, right? LOL Politically they are on opposite ends of the earth. Sometimes the legal system here seems like something out of the ‘forties. Maybe that’s a good thing; I don’t know, but it sure is peaceful here. When my wife and I travel we never even lock our house; our car keys stay in the cars all the time. We have kids in NOVA; they really like the fast pace there. Me? I’ll just sit by my pond in the evenings and drink my toddy. heheeeeee…

  440. Cynthia,this puppet presidency thing has been the GOP’s idea of governance for decades now. See Reagan, G.W.H. Bush.

  441. So Norquist wants to be a king? Queen? Emperor? Isn’t it enough that he controls the Republican Party?

  442. Power, politics and privilege prevail over the rule of law, liberty, justice and peace. But it does not need to be that way.

    http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article33126.html

    Time to shake it on down. Watch out!

  443. BFD-
    I don’t really want to get rid of UAW.
    Even if I’m still ticked he didn’t save any BBQ for us and want to pinch his face off over his ideas sometimes. He’s our loyal opposition and has extended human kindness and caring along with his cups of tea for 3 years now.
    so- me, I’d hit the N on that one.

  444. You are on fire….please keep them coming and please post that buttery cake recipe…

  445. Politics,
    Business,
    Same ole, same ole…

  446. Hannity has men on his show to talk about women’s rights and contraception. This time he has a woman and two men and the lady ‘fights like a girl’ and kicks the men’s butts. This lady will be invited back on Hannity again. I think Hannity will stick to men agreeing on women’s issues in the future.

    http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201202130011

  447. How to start each day with a positive outlook and a smile, here’s the best way

    1. Open a new file in your computer

    2. Name it “UAWtradesman”

    3. Send it to the recycle bin

    4. Empty the recycle bin

    5. Your PC will ask you:

    “Do you really want to get rid of UAWtradesman?”

    6. Click “Yes”

    7. Feel better? Good

    8. Tomorrow we’ll do NOAH

  448. romney
    (rom-ney) v.
    1. To defecate in terror.

    Google: spreading Romney

    Cantor, Ryan and McConnell will be in charge – what a though; I just did a romney. I am so glad I made it to the toilet first, unlike Mitt’s dog when he had a ride on the roof.

  449. Regardless of which side you sit on……. is this the America we want? Is this democracy?

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/13/grover-norquist-speech-cpac.html

    “…..In his charmingly blunt way, Norquist articulated out loud a case for Mitt Romney that you hear only whispered by other major conservative leaders.

    They have reconciled themselves to a Romney candidacy because they see Romney as essentially a weak and passive president who will concede leadership to congressional conservatives:

    All we have to do is replace Obama. … We are not auditioning for fearless leader. We don’t need a president to tell us in what direction to go. We know what direction to go. We want the Ryan budget. … We just need a president to sign this stuff. We don’t need someone to think it up or design it. The leadership now for the modern conservative movement for the next 20 years will be coming out of the House and the Senate.

    The requirement for president?

    Pick a Republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the United States. This is a change for Republicans: the House and Senate doing the work with the president signing bills. His job is to be captain of the team, to sign the legislation that has already been prepared.”

    Peace.

  450. P.S. To all concerned, I too wrote to Ellen requesting they consider H&M as guests and we’ll all await any good news coming this way.

  451. Pfesser: Well, I do declare, sir, I know you told me that you were from the south [when I made a comment a few months ago with the inclusion that all southerners were lacking education in regards to something about the GOP], but I’m just shocked, shocked I say, to read that you too live in VA where I also reside. I was born in NYC, but parents moved us to VA when I was two y/o and although I know VA is part of the south, being as I live in Northern VA which is so metropolitan, I generally don’t view it as being ‘part and parcel of the south’. Despite moving here when so young and didn’t even talk, I have people accuse me of sounding like I come from NYC. Amazing. But, It’s great to know you also live in this state especially being as everything you have written on this blog expressing your view proves that you are so well educated and delightfully kind, It’s terrific knowing you and Mageen are my neighbors.

    Happy Valentine’s Day to all !!

  452. LMFAO
    got an E-mail

    How to start each day with a positive outlook and a smile

    1. Open a new file in your computer

    2. Name it “Barack Obama”

    3. Send it to the recycle bin

    4. Empty the recycle bin

    5. Your PC will ask you:

    “Do you really want to get rid of Barack Obama?”

    6. Click “Yes”

    7. Feel better? Good

    8. Tomorrow we’ll do Nancy Pelosi

  453. Happy Valentine’s Day Margaret & Helen!
    We love you!

  454. @Charles, sorry to jump in here but maybe that org can contact MassEquality. They were amazing – went door to door collecting signatures and raised enough awareness that it helped get the law passed in our state.

  455. Feds recover $4.1B in health care fraud in 2011

    http://www.local10.com/news/Feds-recover-4-1B-in-health-care-fraud-in-2011/-/1717324/8774294/-/xpgb9tz/-/index.html

    “Federal authorities say they recovered $4.1 billion in health care fraud judgments last year, a record high which officials on Monday credited to new tools for cracking down on deceitful Medicare claims.

    The recovered funds are up roughly 50 percent from 2009. ”

    GOBAMA!

  456. atttta girl… ;-) sorry I misunderstood. xo

  457. lori- :-)
    I have to say I’m not advocating sitting down and being polite and if it came across that way I have to chime in with you – hell, no!
    I was trying to say too much of the public “conversation” is about late term abortion as opposed to reality for most women. I also have to say the only late term abortion I have any knowledge of was that of a very catholic cousin.
    She was carrying her sixth (much desired) child when a truck smacked into the car she was riding in. Her injuries were moderate, her baby died, (and the injuries my grandmother, also in the car, suffered lead to her death). The decision to remove the dead baby was terrible for my cousin even though the decaying fetus was poisoning her. I don’t want even late term abortion to be a political football- that decision needed to be between my cousin and her doctor- and in her case, her god. Didn’t need to be any of the rest of us in on that one…

  458. Pi… love you to death… BUT I have to disagree with you about how to create and bring change (or hold onto what women have ALREADY fought AND died for) .

    Unfortunately when one is fighting “power”.. in this case white Christian males, quiet and lady-like doesn’t cut it.

    The opposition would LOVE us to sit down and be polite and quiet. And most times us “liberals” are more than happy to oblige, because heaven forbid we aren’t viewed as “open minded”.

    I say HELLLLL nooo. I’m loud and proud and I am NOT sitting down and being quiet while the MINORITY takes away my daughters rights one by one… NO and helllll no… Not this time…. Not this time

  459. PFesser-
    I think Jackie handled that situation quite well. And I wish more of our public conversation was handled that way.
    This is going to be a winter for the record books. We’ve now been in a weird warm spell for a small bit- way too early so not letting my guard down .”Real” spring thaw is May.

    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/cold-snapped-record-warm-alaska-winter-weather-out-nowhere

    UAW-
    Could be said about zealots of any stripe I think.Our kids deserve the best from us, not the worst. I was raised Catholic and one of my aunts threw her 16 year old daughter out of the house and didn’t speak to her for over 10 years for eating meat on Fridays- not even 2 years later when Vatican II relaxed that prohibition. The notion was more important to auntie than the flesh and blood child. We don’t need that crap on any level.

    Charles Leck-
    Best wishes in Minnesota! We didn’t win that fight a number of years ago here but have been so happy to see other places step up and push back.

  460. I could say the same thing about liberal zealots…..
    “I think there is a lot they, young people, need to learn about respect, affection, and responsibility before they find out that sometimes things go crazy/sad.”

  461. Here in Minnesota we could use your help, Helen. A constitutional amendment is on our ballot for November that will redefine marriage as ONLY between a man and a woman. We’ve got to defeat it. MINNESOTANS UNITED FOR ALL FAMILIES is the central organization bringing all opponents together to defeat the amendment. Folks could contribute to it from all over the nation. We could use your help.

  462. alaskapi –

    “Why can a religious “retreat” for youngsters show graphic pictures without context of the whole issue without full disclosure to parents ahead of time when we can barely get a basic sex-ed class in public schools WITH parental permission in too many places?”

    Excellent point. When I was in college and med school my neighbor had three fine boys, two of whom later became doctors. Pat became a pediatrician in a small – mostly Catholic – community; he and his wife Jackie came face-to-face with the abortion issue when their seven year-old came home extremely distraught by what the teacher had told the class about “baby-killing.” Seven years old – think about that.

    Jackie went to the next school board meeting and spoke. She told them that this kind of proselytizing of second-graders was completely inappropriate and that, if they were going to insist on telling second-graders about the details of abortion, they needed to be prepared to also tell them about the details of conception – and not in the “she begat” kind of euphemisms.

    I thought she handled it perfectly – not with outrage, but firmly. They stopped the practice.

    Hey, how’s the weather treating you up there? Any relief?

  463. jhintze –

    It is a real breath of fresh air to see someone articulate an opposing view with such grace and – well – respect. As long as everyone is just shouting their own narrow POV at everybody else, there is never any progress. People don’t like to be treated like that and it just closes their minds to anything further the opposition has to say.

    Until proven otherwise, I try to assume – not always successfully – that people with opposing views are thoughtful and well-motivated; they just looked at the same data as I did and came up with a different POV. Nothing wrong with that; that is what makes the world go ’round.

    I’m with you on the dancing; I can’t dance either! LOL. I live not too far from Jerry Falwell’s town, so I’m with you on the Baptist thing. The really crazy ones really crawl up my nose…

  464. I’m a pro-lifer. Very much so! I know, go ahead and roll your eyes. Whatever. BUT…

    I do not get the whole contraceptive thing. At. All. I’m definitely not against using contraceptives, including the pill, condoms, tubals, and vasectomies. I agree that, in general, many people that are pro-life are also against sex education and distributing condoms and all that stuff. And I honestly don’t know why that is. So I’m just chiming in to say that we aren’t all like that. I think the whole NFP thing and abstinence thing are perhaps good ideas in theory, but not really going to work for most people. I mean seriously, I couldn’t even keep track of taking the pill every day. So tracking my cycles and all that is just silly.

    And just to go ahead and piss of some of the Catholics while I’m here, I believe (can’t back it up) that most Catholics don’t actually adhere to some of the strict teachings of the Catholic church. Like I’m pretty sure that most practicing Catholics use birth control of some sort, other than NFP. Just as most Baptists, such as myself, drink alcohol. And if I *could* dance, I totally would. And I would dance with Ellen in a heartbeat! I love her so much! So just maybe don’t lump all that stuff in together.

  465. I suppose zealots think they are helping “the Lord’s work,” but I honestly think they might be creating the next generation’s delinquents. I think there is a lot they, young people, need to learn about respect, affection, and responsibility before they find out that sometimes things go crazy/sad.

  466. Medically late term abortions are 21 weeks or more.

    “In 2008, most (62.8%) abortions were performed at ≤8 weeks’ gestation, and 91.4% were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation. Few abortions (7.3%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (1.3%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation. During 1999–2008, the percentage of abortions performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation remained stable, whereas abortions performed at ≥16 weeks’ gestation decreased 13%–17%. Moreover, among the abortions performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation, the distribution shifted toward earlier gestational ages, with the percentage of abortions performed at ≤6 weeks’ gestation increasing 53%. ”

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6015a1.htm?s_cid=ss6015a1_w

    Why can a religious “retreat” for youngsters show graphic pictures without context of the whole issue without full disclosure to parents ahead of time when we can barely get a basic sex-ed class in public schools WITH parental permission in too many places?

    PP may help avoid many, many abortions because of it’s services but public education has a place in the whole picture too
    And we sure as hell don’t need anti-abortion zealots filling kids’ heads with misinformation and extreme examples
    91% performed at or less than 13 weeks- that’s where reality lies. Let’s deal with that with our kids, eh?

  467. UAW, I responded to your comment, “and at some point my personal views change(22 week preemies have been known to live)……….if someone is just going to use abortion as birth control they should have their minds made up before that point(22-32 weeks), barring a medical emergency……”, so okay, maybe you were being sarcastic. I agree, with question, “Should the church even bring up abortion at a confirmation “retreat””….” My opinion is no! For one thing, it is completely age inappropriate and it has very little to do with Christianity, almost always a late term abortion is a life and death issue for the expectant mother. How dare they, the pro-life people, use such an example to push their opinions upon impressionable children. And they call themselves Christians?

  468. EpiscoMom: That was beautiful! Thank You!!

  469. My vote is that Helen attends an Episcopal Church ;) And yes, Fred Phelps and his folks just love to picket our church services on a Sunday morning when they don’t have a military funeral to disrupt. Tells me that – despite our many faults – we must be doing something right. To those who have been abused, rebuked, stigmatized and belittled by any branch of the Church: I am so sorry. I can only say that they did not so learn Christ and that Jesus still weeps.

    Oh, and I demand that the pinheads give back the word “evangelical” which they’ve high-jacked. It actually doesn’t mean narrow-minded, hate-filled biggot – it means one who brings Good News.

  470. don’t put words in my mouth…..where did I ever say it was preferable…….
    subwow was pissed because her son was graphically described an abortion…..did the church lie!!!!!!were they accurate in their description!!!!!!!Did subwow expect them to describe abortion as some wonderful glorious thing…..Just what did subwow expect from a Catholic church…..I already said by not knowing the agenda at the “retreat” she lost her “choice”….she could have said NO……………did she even bother asking??????
    So my question is “Did the church lie when describing a late term abortion”…..
    I’m thinking subwow’s question would be “Should the church even bring up abortion at a confirmation “retreat””…..
    2 different things……

  471. UAW, abortion should never be anyone’s preferred birth control method. It astounds me that you would find that reasonable, obviously much more in the way on education needs to be done, while I have no personal knowledge, I am sure abortion is devastating for any woman. How could it ever be otherwise? But it is sometimes necessary, even in late term, no doubt more so, as it is often a life or death decision for the mother. I, like pro-choice people want abortion to be safe, legal, and infrequent.

  472. Seperation of Church and State is actually a clause in the Bill of Rights (Everson vs. Board of Education) forbidding government from establishing a Federal religion.

    http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/330/1/case.html

  473. something else to think about…
    It only takes 50 senate votes to pass a budget(not 60)…….it been over a thousand days since the Democrats passed one…………President Obama proposed a FY2012 budget last year, and the Senate voted it down 97–0……….can’t blame it all on Repubs……..

  474. pf….
    I don’t know that much about the legal issues of late term abortion(or how many happen)…..I merely meant that as far as I know it is legal…… and at some point my personal views change(22 week preemies have been known to live)……….if someone is just going to use abortion as birth control they should have their minds made up before that point(22-32 weeks), barring a medical emergency……
    One point was, did the church lie when describing late term abortion……Without any religious feelings was it described accurately…..if they didn’t lie than they must have told the truth….. So did they tell the truth?????
    The other point was that subwow wasn’t informed about the topics of instruction being given,one being abortion……..and she didn’t get her chance to choose……if she had known she could have said NO…..whether she would have agreed with the repercussions after that decision is another matter…….
    personally I don’t know about abortion but I can tell you that a miscarriage is a traumatic event…..?????????Question……..is a D&C an abortion……….the fetus was already gone………how is it classified in medical records………

  475. The simple answer to your question MIOV is yes and hell yes…

    Imagine! A political move in an election year. ;-) Whoodddda think? LOL

    BTW … I’ve been following the news of your hubby… so happy it’s been good news as of late.. xo

  476. From what I can tell, contributions to the Dem party have jumped as if they had stepped on an exposed electrical wire. Could this possibly have been the whole reason for the White House issuing the “employer” mandate, thereby ginning up the culture war to another decibel and throwing the campaigners off message as in Obama was bad on job creation, etc.? Wouldn’t surprise me a bit. The Repubs also pull the same stuff when they want. All the same, it is a good idea to remind women — and men — just what is at stake in the coming election concerning the utmost private part of their lives.

  477. UAW Tradesman –

    “I don’t have a problem with someone talking a pill and expelling a gob of snot…….I have a problem with someone changing their mind after 30-32 weeks”

    Hmmm…I wasn’t aware that they did many abortions at 32 weeks. Can you help us out as to the circumstances that might allow an abortion to be performed at 32 weeks? When is that allowed? Is it just “changing your mind,” or is there more to it? Does the Medical Ethics committee at the hospital get involved, or can that *irresponsible* young woman just say, “I changed my mind?”

    You brought that subject up; enlighten us about it. Enquiring minds want to know.

  478. I would add. It is my understanding; it was a discussion between Jefferson and Madison. Jefferson, a Deist, was concerned that religion would corrupt government. And Madison feared government would corrupt religion. So it was decided there should be a separation of Church and State. And they were correct it seems to me.

  479. Dammit – I forgot to put my address in again. Anon spouting on Jefferson was me. PF

  480. “Last time I heard, separation of Church and State was what the Declaration of Independence is based upon,”

    Actually, the Declaration contains quite a bit of reference to God, etc, but it is a justification for declaring independence, not a blueprint for setting up the government afterward. (That would be the Constitution.) Remember, when the Declaration was written by Mr. Jefferson (himself in no way religious in the traditional sense), this bit of real estate was still part of England; the US had not been invented yet.

    The government’s justification for Separation of Church and State, as I understand it, is based on the First Amendment. The first *reference* to the “wall of separation” I believe was a letter from Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association, somewhere around 1800 – 1802 I think. (I’m too lazy to look it up.)

    Jefferson is my hero; I live not too far from his home in Charlottesville and make a pilgrimage there at least once every year to do the tour. I mentally thank him every day for what he did; it’s too bad that those who get their mail in Washington, DC have for the past forty years moved heaven and earth trying to undo his work.

  481. Thanks, Helen, this is just what I needed. You see I’ve been a little bit down this week what with the Komen thing and then the birth control thing. I’ve been thinking “didn’t we fight this battle already back in the 70’s? I’m tired already”. But then I see that you, who have a couple of years on me, are ready to come out swinging, and I think “I can do this”. So thanks. I’m not going to burn my bra, though, there’s some things a woman my age shouldn’t do.

  482. I agree with much of what you say re: women’s rights, but for crissake make this page more accessible. I had something to say but lost it on the way down.

  483. Men dominate the news stories and the discussion by 2 to 1 when contraception is discussed. Why? It should be a woman’s issue, women end up having the resulting babies. Women are also left to raise the child if the dad flakes out in many cases.

    http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/02/10/423211/cable-report-birth-control-men-women/

  484. Adiena b….
    really funny….just like the million man march and 3 people actually had to miss work…..

  485. Last time I heard, separation of Church and State was what the Declaration of Independence is based upon, and the “Million Moms” are quite a few hundred thousand short of a MIllion, so they’re no threat, just stupid, and probably led in secret by Sarah Palin and her clone Bachmann…

  486. Wow, Helen – you are ON FIRE lately, and I love it !

  487. This is an amazing water show set to I Will Always Love You by Whitney Houston. A great tribute to a wonderful singer. It takes place in Dubai
    RIP Whitney.

    http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhtx73b16tewp9FQ24

  488. Mageeen…..

    Kerry waited 9 years after the divorce to get an annulment……

    If it’s good enough for a Dem than its good enough for a Repub……

    If an annulment is all it takes than when Newt turned Catholic in 2009 he had his past marriages annulled…..

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_newt_gingrich_get_annulments_from_the_Catholic_Church_for_his_previous_marriages

  489. on the contrary BFD””’
    I can see the difference but isn’t “the most odious example” also lawful…….
    I don’t have a problem with someone talking a pill and expelling a gob of snot…….I have a problem with someone changing their mind after 30-32 weeks…….some people have a problem with the snot……..

  490. UAW, I thought Kerry got an annulment which is different from a divorce.

  491. It seems to me that they are cheating by using only a late term abortion to make their case. But as a lapsed Catholic I understand where they’re coming from.
    They have taken the most odious example and made it appear to be the general case. I’d guess UAW isn’t smart enough to see the distinction.

  492. Subwow, I feel your pain. I wish they had stopped to think they were addressing vulnerable 13 year olds. I hope your son does feel lasting effects from that retreat. I understand the deceit sometimes perpetrated by the Catholic church to make the point it is intent on making. I remember our priest talking about abortion during the last election and basically telling us what party to vote for. I was like it was none of the church’s business who I do vote for. Catholics do not walk in lockstep, I am proof of that. I am quite capable of thinking for myself.

  493. subwow….

    “They described in graphical details how abortion is done. And, not surprisingly, they focused on late-term abortions, with horrifying descriptions of full-grown babies being forced out, sometimes feet first, etc etc”

    Did the church lie when they described a late-term abortion?……

    Not that I agree with the way it was handled(I’m pro-choice myself)……I fault the church for not informing you beforehand…….and then you would have had a choice……

  494. can I annoy you JJ….
    get an early start and donate for me today….

  495. I sent in my Planned Parenthood Troll Donation yesterday and will send in another Donation next Saturday if I get annoyed at the Trolls this week.

  496. Some Catholic Teachings which the Republicans choose to ignore. There is a lot of selective indignation with the Catholic Church and the Republican Party.

    http://www.juancole.com/2012/02/top-ten-catholic-teachings-santorum-rejects-while-obsessing-about-birth-control.html

  497. subWOW
    Advice?? I am sure you are not the only mother upset with this situtation. (Others have said what I was so I’ll pass.) I would be very angry as well!!

    You can not undo what he heard but you can have an honest conversation with him about how you feel about all of it and his reactions to it as well.
    As a non-Catholic raising Catholic children, once, I too had a few disagreements with the “Church”.

  498. I find it perplexing how churches and church goers have to tell Hal truths or just plain make things up to get their point across. What happened to Thou Shall Not Make Shit Up???

  499. SubWOW that happened to my sister-in-law with the Catholic church. It was the last straw for her. The whole family spent the next few months visiting different churches until they found one they all liked. It was great for them.

  500. Subwow, there has to be any number of other parents who shared your reaction. Find out who they are. A co-signed letter to the church authorities concentrating on how your rights as parents were abrogated would be a good idea. I once encountered something that did just that when I sent my eldest to a private Catholic school where the liturgy offered for the students was strictly tenth century and they were forced to attend. As a result my child was given a free pass and could use that time to study. And no, neither one of us still attends that particular denomination. And that school ceased to exist in short order.

  501. SubWow a church that has to lie to make a point is not a church I would continue to send my children to. At the very least, you could check your local PP to see if they have some education classes or something you can take him to. My PP
    in Austin has a education center with classes for teens

  502. RIP WHITNEY……..

  503. Thank you so much for your eloquence. Yesterday my son and his fellow 8th graders went to a mandatory half-day “retreat” as part of the Catholic confirmation process. Did you know what they told these 13-year-olds? They described in graphical details how abortion is done. And, not surprisingly, they focused on late-term abortions, with horrifying descriptions of full-grown babies being forced out, sometimes feet first, etc etc. I was livid. I am still livid. Being the non-Christian half of a multi-religious family, I feel lied to, betrayed. I did not sign up for this. (I wrote a long post on what happened yesterday if anybody is interested in giving me suggestions/advice. Yes, trolls please stay away)

  504. Right on

  505. This is the first time I read your comments. YEAH. Leave Ellen alone and my right to birth control and abortion if I choose. Seems like most of the noise is coming from men. I say let them have a period for 40 years, a couple of pregnancies and the constant fear of having more babies, I think they would change their tune.

    As for gays, they should have the same rights as any other man or woman.

  506. Finally, someone who tells it like it is (or how it should be). Thank you!!! Your articles are just what the world needs!

  507. Well it looks like one of the “anon”s didn’t get through. The second comment was that I, too, assumed JuneauJoe was male, but thought I had seen a recent post to the contrary. Is that right? Hard to keep so many folks straight.

  508. Bologna! Googe Chrome doesn’t automatically put in the identifying data. Last two “anon” posts were from me.

  509. farsight delta –

    “Anyway, are we still agreeing to disagree about Ron Paul?”

    I don’t remember what the disagreement was. Sorry. Help me out.

  510. I feel so sad about the passing of Whitney Houston. What an amazing talent.

  511. @Linda, you sound like a nice person. It also sounds like you got on one of those Forward email lists. Don’t you hate that? LOL. ;)

    It’s just worth noting that the Republicans have a huge problem. They are against abortion. But then they never offer solutions to pregnant women who may need resources. Then they want to ban birth control and take away affordable health care as well? That’s crazy!

    The pill does not “treat” most of those complicated diseases, it prevents them. This saves everyone – hospitals, taxpayers, workers and employers from having to deal with citizens holed up in crowded hospitals and keeps American citizens from taking lots of sick days.

    I for one worked and volunteered for my community at very low wages with no health insurance while my employer went screaming off in her BMW and laid me off with no notice so she could buy a second home. There must be safeguards in place for hardworking people until they find another job. And I don’t know of any other affordable women’s centers, do you?

    Meanwhile these Republicans are getting high wages and the best health care off of our hard earned dollars. I think we all of us have a stake in sticking together, Linda, right or left. I hope we can work it out. Cheers.

  512. I have no real problem with divorce. If people don’t get along then they should go there own way (it is sad though and especially when kids are involved). However, Newt’s indiscretions leading up to (that are well established) and his lack of integrity is a false equivalency to Kerry.

  513. Since we all agreeing on things: (However, I want it noted: I do think contraception is a good idea or I would have had 10 kids.) Now, I can turn it over to Andy.

    Andy Borowitz
    Now that we all agree contraception is a bad idea, let’s take a harder look at electricity and soap.

  514. Pfesser,

    JuneauJoe very most definitely posts opinions while taking definite stands on issues. He has done this on this forum currently and in years past. The only time he goes on the obnoxious offensive, that I have witnessed, is when he feels sorely provoked. Noah and his various aliases seems to just have a knack for attracting negative energy.

    As to JJ’s links, he has introduced me to some sites that I now go to regularly and for which I am grateful. I also believe there are more ways to state one’s opinion than with one’s own words. The humor, particular take, style of another person may more adequately express one’s view than one’s own words (I probably fill this bill more rather than less). So, I don’t see what is wrong with him posting links (you, of course, are entitled to your own opinion). At least with a link, most of his posts don’t become overly long and boring like some.

    Anyway, are we still agreeing to disagree about Ron Paul?

  515. Thank you for standing up for planned parenthood, Ellen G, me and all the other women in America. Please keep blogging.

  516. UAW, am I missing something here? The link you have provided concerning Kerry actually does less as “proof” for you assertions vice more. I’m assuming it is satire.

  517. Now your getting it…
    If John Kerry getting a divorce didn’t bother you why should Newt getting one bother me………
    interesting about a brokered election…….
    GO JEB/CHRIS 2012

  518. UAW; You and I agree actually. What I find funny is your man, Newt, the Family Man, has had 3 marriages, a few blow jobs and other stuff I am sure but he is Mr. Family Values now. He signed a pledge of one man and one woman. I wonder if the rest say (at a time.) In his younger years he was going for two women at a time though. Wife 2 and his present wife were keeping his willy busy for 6 years – THAT IS FAMILY VALUES!!!

    Dems have issues too, but they are not harping nearly as much about family values. Just like Republicans are saying economy, jobs, balanced budget but when they are in power – they have the biggest deficits, start stupid unfunded wars and give big tax breaks to the wealthy which crashes the economy. Ironic

  519. Hey JJ
    “UAW: Family Values is a Republican Issue” –

    then can I assume that the Democrats do not care for/absolutely abhor/are against Family Values….

    “Bill Murray has some advice to Americans on how to live: Be personally responsible. Or be compost.”

    http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/movie-guide/Bill+Murray+urges+personal+responsibility/6138553/story.html

  520. I am so glad I found your blog. It is wonderful! I can’t wait to follow you two all during this political year. Keep up the great work, Ladies!

  521. One follower of Jesus, if I understand the Gospel correctly, was Mary Magdalene. Not the “purest” in the manners of the flesh, but accepted by Jesus nevertheless. I will take Mary Magdalene any day over any of the “see how holly I am pharisees”. If this nation was founded under God, let us postulate that God created the gays too, and would not have done so if He did not want them here. Further, in my humble opinion, since He created all, He is responsible for all. I am sure He is big enough to know that. He needs no defenders. There has been enough talk about abortion on this site, by the hosts and posters to fill volumes. Enough said.

  522. Santorum is one sick cookie. His wife had her fetus aborted to save her life, yet he would let a woman die rather than the baby if she is in extremus. Sick, sick, sick. Damn Santorum, he is sick, sick, sick.

    Damn the bishops. They are sick, sick, sick.

  523. @Amelie, I would think any church/person would be be appalled at the Sandusky case. I don’t know claim to have all the answers. What I do know that someday Sandusky will have to stand before his maker. This is a sad situation. As far as birth control, there are many options besides planned parenthood. As far as complicated female diseases, if they need to be treated by birth control that’s between doctor and patient. As far as birth control for the single person to prevent birth, abstain. Also, I was reading that breast cancer is at a higher risk for people that have had abortions. Listen,I don’t claim to be a know it all, I don’t mean to be self-righteous, I have made a lot of mistakes and my life hasn’t always been easy, but I do believe in the bible and if you don’t, it is not For me to judge. I received this blog from a friend who believes in abortions, gays, etc., and of a different religion than mine. She knew of my beliefs and I just stated my beliefs. No matter if one believes in God or not, I don’t like the idea of a throw away society, where if you don’t like something throw it away, there is a responsibility in our choices.

    completely

  524. @Linda,

    I did not take offense nor do I intend to offend, but my point IS that we were NOT established as “One nation under God”. That verbiage was added much later. The article I linked better illustrates the intentional separation of any form of religion and our government.

    Aside from governance, we are all sinners. The meaning of sin refers to “missing the mark”. Repent means to do an about face, something we should be examining often.

  525. @Poolman. I never said this was a “Christian nation”. What I meant was, It was founded under One nation under God following the principles of God. My point was we were founded under God and his principles based on the Bible. Obviously we as a nation are not all Jesus followers because we would be inline with the beliefs of gay’s, abortions, and the decadence of morals. Pro-abortionist, gays, etc. Need to understand that we do not hate them, just disagree, as they disagree where I stand. Sorry if I offended you but I do feel I understand the fundamentals of Christianity!

  526. As a follower of Jesus, I have issue with organized religion. So did He when He walked the earth. But to say this nation is a “Christian” nation is really a lack of understanding in the fundamentals. I know there has been much attempt to get us there, but thank God we are not. The things that this nation does globally do not reflect any real “Christian” theology.

    But yes, we do need to pray for our leaders, whether we agree with their politics or not. Bless them and prayerfully stand in the gap. Our weapons are not carnal, nor are our enemies.

    http://consortiumnews.com/2012/02/11/the-founders-secular-vision-for-america/

  527. Linda, if you stand for God, could you please explain how it’s okay to deny a woman simple birth control pills which are also used as medicine to prevent serious female diseases and cancer? Why doesn’t the church obsess on Sandusky instead of women being given medicine?

  528. Helen, I think you are correct. My husband does not get control over my lady parts any more than he gets control over how I wear my hair and what I choose to wear. He may make suggestions but that is all. The government certainly shouldn’t have this say either.

    Why don’t the GUP try putting the same controls on men that they want to put on women? Santorum believes you men should only use your penis to pee and to procreate. Let’s go with that rule and see how far we get.

    Ellen rocks.

  529. @ Mariah – Calling me a zealot means what I stated, because I stand for God I get verbal abuse because I am different from the world. I just defended what I believe in and obviously you took offense. Quite contradictory don’t you think? You can believe what you want, I’ll believe what I want but I never called you or referred in a negative sense!

  530. I’ll pray for you, Linda Williams, as I can smell a misguided zealot from a thousand paces away and across the countless trillions of electrons which comprise the internet.

  531. UAW: Family Values is a Republican Issue – RIGHT!!! It is a cornerstone of any convention they have.

    No Republican Presidential Candidate can get over 30% of the Republican Votes in the recent voting – BAD NEWS!! THE ANTI-WOMEN STANCE TAKEN by the current crop of idiots is losing the women vote fast.

    Republican voter turn out is LOW!!! Moderate or liberal Republicans are not even voting – they have no voice with the current crop of idiots!! There is no place in the Republican Party for Rockefeller or Eisenhower type Republicans so they will move over to President Obama. Just ask Gen Colin Powell if he will vote for the current Republican idiots running.

  532. Making fun of someone’s religion has been a popular sport through the ages. To take a stand for God is to be different from the world and vulnerable to verbal abuse.. When we are cynical and sarcastic toward Men of God, we are in danger of mocking just not one person but also the spiritual message. While we are not to condone the sin that some leaders commit, we need to pray for them, not laugh at them. True leaders, those who follow God, need to be heard with respect and encouraged in their ministry. Why do the people who are against abortion, gay rights, need to be ridiculed. I personally do not want to be transformed to a worldly standard of what I consider Immoral and object to worldly standards when our country was founded as One Nation Under God. Pray for our Nation.

  533. Sue H.

    There’s another way, – become a secular humanist, then you don’t have to keep looking over your shoulder for Satan or a wrathful God and their followers, tracking you down like some sort of game animal. When I threw off the religious mantle after a Christian high school experience it was the most liberating experience of my life. Gone were the prejudices against other religions and all those nasty ethnic pejoratives I learned were history. I was free to help my fellow man in a host of different ways without looking at my activities merely as redemptive tools. In fact, it has become a way of life for me and my family and we do it for the personal satisfaction it affords us, not because it is a way of buying our way into heaven, – whatever that is.
    I think it’s revealing that the most hateful character on this blog sees himself as a major religionist. Not a very good representation of most of the faithful I know.

  534. Hey JJ….
    the “anyone but Romney” is not going to be a vote for Obama….
    there are also moderate liberals that are called “independents”

    You like to bring up Newt’s Divorces……..
    Any comments about Kerry’s divorce!!!!!!!!

    LOL….he also ran for president…..

    Thorne swore under oath that Kerry, “often made me dress up like Jackie O ['Nassis] or Marilyn Monroe, and would make me call him ‘JFK.’ His idea of foreplay was either to ask whether, ‘Mrs. President wanted to solve the ‘Kerry Missile Crisis,’ or to say, ‘who wants to have sex with John Kerry? Bring-it-on.'” She also claimed he regularly yelled out his own name during orgasm. ”

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1921662/posts

  535. Just remember what happened when we let the religious, hate mongering freaks pick a president in 2000…………..the only issues any Repub candidate has to campaign on are those related to hate and fear. Never forget that. They are the Party of No. Wouldn’t it be just so fun to have a gay or lesbian president !!!! OMG, the Repubs would be launching themselves out of windows all over the country.

    The Repubs sprinkle in a little “no taxes” , scary obamacare and gun control bs which never happened, but they are still mighty scared it might, along with the birth certificate issue and call it good. Not one of them gives a crap about “we the people”. And frankly, until they quit taking their government paid for, top of the line healthcare, they need to shut their pieholes about that, too.

    The middle class was given a tax cut but because the media is owned by the conservatives, nothing was ever reported. Republicans have never given a tax cut to the middle class, ever. Repubs yell and scream about big government but they are the ones who have created the big government. And now they want to create a department of the Uterus and a department of Marriage. They yell and scream about spending, but they are the ones who spend and spend and spend on the desires of their wealthy contributors. They created a war with no idea of how they would pay for it and they just rolled that into the deficit and pointed the finger away from themselves. Clever devils, eh? From the beginning of time their M.O. has been to spend and spend and ruin things and then blame it on the next Democratic president. They have done one hell of a good job with that.

    Sadly, the people who will be hurt the most by a Republican administration, continue to vote against their own best interests. The low information voter is a dangerous thing.

    Thankfully, Penney’s did not cave and the crazy lady resigned from The Komen foundation, but that is just a drop in the bucket.

    The Koch brothers are alive and well and spending billions to propagate their agenda…….they want to be the puppet masters for the next Repub administration. And watch out for the idiot palin………she is like a poisonous toadstool, she keeps popping up everywhere.

    Colorado Blue

  536. Helen,
    I love what you write. You have a wonderful way of questioning the truth of some people’s agenda. Something has been bothering me for a while now, and I would like you to comment on it in your blog.

    When I go to church, I learn Jesus healed the sick, took care of the poor, cast out the moneylenders from the temple. My pastor tasks us to do the same. Jesus, by example, led a life of poverty, fed the multitude with 5 loaves and fishes.. Yet Republicans, who claim to be devote Christians, tell us this is socialist thinking, that riches and greed are good, that government is not meant to take care of the poor, the elderly, or the sick. Government is for getting rich or for making war.

    I truely don’t understand how Republican candidates (and all those so called “Christians” who support them) can continue to go to church and profess a love for Jesus. I am appalled at how two faced they all are. IMO, Republicans candidates and all those who support them are pretenders – not Christians at all, but actually the snake in the garden of eden… tempting people with promises of riches, hiding behind their “holy” cause of saving babies, and perpetutating bigotry and how “wrong” certain kinds of love are. They know that educated, thinking people understand how wrong these messages are. They can’t win on real issues, so they twist their message to appear to have a higher cause.

    Either you are Republican, or your are Christian. These two are mutually exclusive. You can’t be both.

  537. Noah,

    While I regret I already made 3 short comments (instead of one longer one which I should have done), I’m intrigued. Do you have any evidence of what you’re saying? For example, why do you keep insisting that “birth control” comprises condoms only? Are you so far out in the boondocks that you’ve never heard of the COCP (otherwise known as The Pill)? Are you aware that it’s used for the treatment of pelvic inflammatory disease, anemia and dysmenorrhea?

    You mention cancer. Did you know that the Pill reduces a woman’s chance of getting ovarian and endometrial cancer?

    Why are you demanding that health insurance companies wait until people get sick to give them medicine? I’d love to hear you justify that decision. And here is my scientific evidence of what I’m saying. I expect you will cite your sources lest you become a laughing stock on this blog. Oh, and I have a Master’s Degree in Biology. Come prepared or else I will argue you right into the ground.

    http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/94/1/32.short

    http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/152/3/233.short

  538. In the mean time Jerry Sandusky has been observed sitting on his porch watching children on the elementary school playground behind his house. I bet the Catholic Church will be all over this one! Nope, nothing at all to say about that. Shame, shame.

  539. The whole ANYBODY BUT ROMNEY message and Santorum taking 3 states this past week should not be overlooked. Are we looking at a brokered Convention? I just read this:

    http://godsownparty.com/blog/2012/02/santorum-surge-is-predictable-the-true-severe-gop-candidate/

    Republicans – not to be confused with ReBiblicans – are left embarrassed, ashamed and wandering the desert of uncertainty. They are now increasing the growing numbers of moderate conservatives who are known as “Independents”.

    Where is this leading? Hopefully to a brokered convention in Tampa Bay. There are Dominionist politicians waiting in the wings to jump in the fray when that happens. Spineless candidates such as Sarah Palin – just to name one. Rumors abound about other potential last minute possibilities from Jeb Bush to Steve Forbes, but in the never-ending goat show that we have just witnessed, god only knows who else might rear their “anointed” heads.

    To me, the longer this circus goes on, the bigger the win for President Obama. Seems to me that the ReBiblicans spend the entire week or two increasing the WAR ON WOMEN’s RIGHTS.. I see it as a way to lose votes myself. I have gone through a lot of popcorn watching this circus. I need to go buy more I guess.

  540. Catholic nonprofits get a tax break from the government. If they don’t want to follow the rules that all other employers must follow, we MUST demand that the White House drops their funding. I used to work for an extremist right-wing veterinarian. What’s next, will any employer be able to decide what health care an employee gets?

    PLEASE write the White House about this.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

    Thank you brilliant ladies for another amazing post.

  541. Helen and Margaret: Thank You for the new post. I hope you keep them coming.

    My gender: man but if challenging it floats your boat – have fun. Some folks seem to have nothing better to do than play with their computer and make stuff up.

    Here is a Santorum song: It is about the definition. Santorum is against birth control, gays, and if he were President. seems to want a bedroom police to fill him in on animal on man sex situations at his daily briefing.

    http://rackjite.com/archives/9184-Tea-Party-Santorum-Lube-Fecal-Matter-song!-Mary-Birdsong.html

  542. Actually it’s not a million moms. I heard on the news that the One Million Moms Facebook page only has 40,000 followers. I guess they can’t count. Maybe they should be taking classes instead of babbling on about their religion?

    (I tried to verify this but other “One Million Moms” groups on Facebook were created to SUPPORT Degeneres so the original one is hard to find. Encouraging, right)?

  543. As much as I would enjoy seeing Margaret and Helen on the Ellen Show, I think it would be a very bad idea for them to appear on the show and blow their cover. Do You real want Noah or people like him to know their identities? These ladies do not need real life stalkers.

  544. Pfessor
    “Never being challenged and getting too comfortable in your own line of BS is never a good thing.”

    Agree 100%! IMO, Noah was ONLY confortable in HIS line of BS, when he controls the conversation but when confronted with actual facts that disproved his point he refuses to consider them. But you must totally accept his “facts” as FACT. The conversations seem to end up going round in circles. I am referring to his conversations with Simon, Alaskapi and Sally. What is the point, what can you learn from this? It is a waste of time.

    IMO Noah belongs on a site with men who like to play the same game.

    PS – JuneauJoe is a man and he has been here long before you. Please don’t question his gender.

    Peace.

  545. Please don’t worry about those Million Moms Helen. They can’t even count since there are less than 50,000 of them. Intelligence is obviously not their strong point.

  546. Well, I think Noah gets WAAAAAAAAAY too much attention, which is what he is obviously after. I think everyone should just ignore him, and he will go away. He’s like the Staypuff Marshmellow man, as long as we think about him, he will get bigger and more powerful. However, he does know just how to keep any woman’s attention by continually sticking his “business” up a woman’s skirt! Try to be more original, Noah, venture away from your biological imperative and use your brain for a change.

  547. PFessor, not bring a woman you probably don’t fully understand how incredibly insulting Noah is and how having him here is different than just having someone with differing opinions. Noah hates women. I hope they do whatever needs to be done to rid this place of him.

  548. PFesser, that’s a no on Noah. I’ve worked with people who made a career out of nursing their thumb all day. It might be a fulfilling hobby for some but it otherwise makes for drudgery for the rest of the crew. We learned so very, very little from the thumb-ers largely cuz what they had to contribute was so scarce in every way. It did eventually result in a “cultural” office motto aimed just at the thumb-er: there’s no crying in baseball. Incredibly when he finally figured it out his own health improved, particularly his blood pressure.

  549. Terrific. My Maker must be a crack physicist since I’m 99 % atoms which are 99% empty and that’s kinda hard to figure. In China the old adulterers and liars and cheaters like Newt baby, and the Christian zealots, like Santorum,and the pretty boys who happen to be Mormon & think they have to keep females under their thumbsd and hate all gays because gays really make them nervous about themselves get to legally force women to have abortions. We can’t let these Republlican bozos get that powerful in this country.

  550. Margaret and Helen, if you do get an offer to appear on tv please do not think you actually have to leave home to do so. You can be telecast via remote. Honestly, you really should take all the clamor of doing so seriously! When the networks call, do be picky but please don’t turn them down out of hand.

    Luv ya both bunches!

  551. Margaret, did you just give something away? Are we getting the cookbook?! We’re looking forward to it.
    Helen, you always make sense, please keep it coming.
    Thank you both for being who you are.

  552. re: Noah

    I like having him post here, especially now that the games have ended and everything is on the up-and-up. Frankly, although JuneauJoe seems to be a great (guy? gal?), I find his/her link diarrhea far more irritating; at least Noah has his own opinion – and defends it vigorously.

    And, I think Noah keeps everybody honest. He reminds me of Mother Jones, a magnificent agitator who plied her trade among the miners of West Virginia: “(his) job is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.” Never being challenged and getting too comfortable in your own line of BS is never a good thing.

  553. Loved the newest post Helen! Love ‘em all. Your columns should be mandatory reading to all those who sit in Congress and those who would hope to sit behind the desk in the Oval Office. They all have too many high cost adviser’s telling them what to think and what they really need is a plain speaking grandmother who tells it like it is. I frequently send columns to friends and have posted a few to my facebook page when I have felt it was an even more important read.

    I would truly love to see you two ladies on the Ellen show and I know she would love you. I just hope if it happens that we get some advance warning so we can make sure to catch the show that day. I try to watch most days, but sometimes things come up and I just don’t get to watch. I did see the one the other day when Ellen talked about the Million Moms who want JCPenney to fire her. I did like the part about the Million Moms only having 40,000 on their facebook page! Me thinks Million Moms has inflated themselves a bit! None the less, they should feel free to boycott JCPenney if that is their desire, but to demand Penny’s fire Ellen is extreme. It isn’t like she did something they can point a finger at like use the n word or something- it is only that she is gay and is married to another woman that they don’t like her. Ellen has a very popular talk show and is a spokesperson for several products, past and present, and has done an admirable job of representing causes she cares about. She has also brought a lot of joy to others that needed it and makes her viewers feel good on a daily basis. You can be guaranteed a laugh watching Ellen. They do say that laughter is the best medicine and I think that is what we all need- a daily dose of Margaret and Helen in our inbox and Ellen on our TV! Now that is a prescription I can take!

  554. Alaskapi –

    We have been having unseasonably warm weather here in Virginia; not a drop of snow this winter so far. I’ve been watching the Alaska weather and it looks like you folks are really taking a butt-whipping! How is it going up there? When does the weather typically break up and spring begin where you are?

  555. Helen, you give me hope that not all Americans are misoginist, religious, right-wing zealots like we see on TV. Very scary. I’m not saying Canadian politicans are not a bit goofy, but nothing like what you are dealing with on a daily basis.

    So much talk from the Republicans about less government and yet they seem to spend a lot of time wanting government to control women and perpetuate fear and hatred towards gays. It’s very confusing.

    Catholic bishops and priests are not really in a postition to speak or make decisions of a sexual nature, especially in regards to women. It would be hypocricy at best………

    Keep up the good work and keep those posts coming. You’re simply the BEST!!

  556. In Newt’s case… marriage is between “a man, a woman and another woman” — and another woman.

    Sigh. He’s on #3.

  557. Helen, I was just introduced to your blog and I find I quite enjoy it! Sometimes, I wish my grandmother was more like you. :-)

  558. Helen,

    It is so good to see you writing again! You make my world brighter!

    (And Noah really needs to find another place to vent…)

  559. Evelyn, looks like the “problem” has been taken care of….just a hunch. We’ll see…

  560. Matthew–isn’t it enough? I was so pleased when you told Noah that he was on a short leash, and that he would be barred if he continued with the constant posting, particularly of the same points. We are now back to the relentless claims about the supposed character deficiencies of “liberals,” how the posters here are “sheep,” the regular assertions that anyone who chooses not to respond to him somehow has nothing to say in response, and the misogynistic slurs about women’s “cycles.” Many of us truly love Helen and Margaret’s posts. Occasionally, the blog draws a nut or a nasty, but they move on. However, Noah truly detracts from the blog and has emphatically demonstrated that he has no intention of behaving civilly or with any respect for others. This particular world would be a much better place without him.

  561. Mary, I too sent Ellen’s show an email recommending Helen and Margaret as guests. Hopefully, they’ll receive enough emails to get their attention. Thanks for the great suggestion! For anyone else who love to see these two delightful ladies on Ellen’s show, the web address for recommending guests is: http://ellen.warnerbros.com/show/respond/?PlugID=10

  562. You gals are awesome! I love the way you articulate a very rational viewpoint and put things into perspective.

  563. Good idea, Mary. Will do.

    I agree, Susan.

  564. Disparaged & Delurkergurl, I doubt the Republicans can get their hateful misogynist legislation passed in the Senate, but it is SO important to increase the Democratic majority in both houses this year, in addition to re-electing President Obama. We were and will be again in MUCH safer hands with Nancy Pelosi in the lead. I’m going to be working hard towards those goal here in WA State. The Republicans have declared war on women; let them reap what they have sown!

  565. I don’t like repeating myself but a certain verbose troll jumped out from under the bridge, right after I posted, and I think my previous comment was largely overlooked.

    I’d REALLY like to see our favorite grandmothers on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. If you agree with me, drop by her website at ellentv.com and suggest them as guests. Maybe we can be as influential as the people who wanted Betty White to host SNL.

    I really hope the ladies will do it! And let us know the show date beforehand, so we can tape it if we’re at work.

  566. Alaskapi, thank you for your remarks about you know who. It is appreciated by many!

  567. We love you, Auntie Jean!!!!

  568. Dear Helen and Margaret,

    How wonderful to see both of you back in your inimitable forms. I haven’t commented in quite a while. You have managed to stir up a firestorm to make people think. Keep it up!!! Your voices are needed and appreciated by so many of us who love you.

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom. Saalam.

    Jean

  569. Enjoyed all the comments so far, of course, no commentary on the ones I skipped. I saw on another news program that Bill O’reilly came to Helen’s defense. The clip shown had the lady from the million moms or whatever moms, being visibly shaken by his words. I don’t watch Fnews and am no fan of his. However, I said to myself, there is hope for all of us yet.

  570. Girl you got it going on! I hope me and my BFF are still as with it as you and Miss Margaret when we get your age. You two be awesome!

  571. I love you Margaret & Helen!!!!!

  572. Noah- All Matt has to do is block any and all IP addresses , real or proxy, which you pop up with, so, yes, the technology exists.
    A wordpress blog is owned by it’s writer(s) and is not a public place in that sense.
    It’s more like a parlor for company in one’s own home- the rules for being included are the owners’,. not yours nor mine unless it is our own blog.
    Quit being nasty just to be nasty, eh?
    And get over thinking you decided to play nice on your own- you are here on sufferance- in large part because of Matt’s respect for his grandmother’s enjoyment of all POVs, something I like and respect about her myself.

  573. I love you guys! You are the best! We have always shopped at JC Penney (and other places too of course) but JC Penney’s for homegoods and my hubby’s suits, etc. and we will shop there now more often! I love Ellen. She is just a really good person, like the two of you, like our President, our Vice-President, and our First and Second Ladies! Really good people!

  574. Wow, “her cycle”….grow a pair dude and move on.

  575. Stacy, I wrote the post, wake the hell up. As Matt already knows, the technology does not exist to ban anyone from a public place like wordpress. I decided on my own to play nice. I am still trying to play nice. I cant help it if your cycle prevents you from being civil.

  576. Oh pleeeze, Noah/ Anon you are last one to ask for guide lines on what can be posted. You are here only because you have been given a second chance (see MOD posts) for being so damn nasty. Keep it up and you’ll voted off this blog for good. Now, off to donate to Planned Parenthood in your name.

  577. susanwastate: Thought you [and all others] might like knowing what the Rs are now going to pursue with their war on women. There is just no pleasing these bastards only because they are bound and determined to control our reproductive organs in any way they can find regardless of how evil. They should all rot in hell.

    “Anti-choice Sen. Roy Blunt (R-MO) is using a transportation bill – of all things – to try to undo the entire birth-control coverage policy.

    In fact, the Blunt amendment is so much worse than what we could have dreamed up. If we lose, insurers and employers will get the right to deny you coverage for any essential health benefit they deem immoral.” by Bob Fertik of Democrats.com

  578. oh DEAR…I don’t reallymuch like J.C. Penney’s…but I’m going to have to start shopping there…

  579. oye *payed

  580. buttons844
    I have to wonder, do you go out and talk to people you dont know out in the real world like that? Is this how you raise your kids to be? To be intolerant of anyone that differs from them in any way? Maybe up here in my little rural community we are in a separate reality and I have been naive my whole life. You all are really a nasty little lot of people. Don’t feel bad for me though, I’ve a thick hide and I feel sorry more than anything else for the lot of you. To go through your entire lives feeling every thing is owed to you, never once taking responsibility for anything you do, and having bought into the story that you are a victim needing to be saved. I cannot imagine a sorrier, more meaningless existence. God willing I will shed the light on one of you bitter folks and make you see you are not half as helpless as Liberals would lead you to believe.

    Terri
    In the finest of Liberal traditions(Told ya so Alaskapie) you make for the personal attacks. I can see you paid attention in Liberal training school. Thanks for being petty. I am a 40 something with 2 little ones and married to the same great person for 24 years, thanks for asking.

    Now I would ask from this point forward you keep comments about my kids to yourself. This would constitute my 1 and only friendly warning. Keep it above the belt boys and girls.

  581. gramiam
    I doubt that will really come to pass. Do you really think that people who did or did not shell out the $1 for the condom would then go out and get it if it was free(ish)? I am guessing not. But big business gets their money regardless so its a win right?

    As far a going for the low hanging fruit, I am happy to take on any question ask directly to me, even if you can’t find it within yourselves to be civil. As for Penny,to whom I suspect you are referring too, I did not respond to her post for several reasons. #1 she almost begged me not to. #2 she gave her opinion, then told me what my answer was, then closed the door. At that point I figured there was no reason to respond.

  582. Keep in mind P C Penney has a Online catalog, which makes shopping very convenient, right from home.

  583. I can only assume Noah is some old fart with no wife and no kids and therefore no clue. Imagining him otherwise would be too painful. To think that some Winn’s would have to suffer him or that some young boy has that as a role model.. Uhgggg what about a daughter… Hope she keeps her legs crossed until marriage and wants a lot of kids. More than I can stomach

  584. God Bless both of you wonderful ladies.

    I so miss my Grandmother and my Mother. They both lead full lives and were never afraid to speak their minds. Please keep posting your observations and opinions as your posts remind me of the two special ladies that are no longer in my life.

  585. Another great post! Hope to see you ladies on the Ellen show.

  586. I’m adopting you two as my Grandmothers! Lord knows my real grandmothers don’t have a clue. I think they were both original tea party members.

  587. Wow…Thank you, Helen. You are awesome. And I think I love you. :)

  588. I love you Helen!

  589. Well Helen, if your blog on PP upset Betty’s daughter, then wait till she reads Margaret saying her mother’s drinking made her recipes bad. She really will have her nickers in a wad after that!

  590. Ditto to all of the above comments! I enjoy your posts so much Helen, your perspective is a breath of fresh air, which I need for my sanity. Thank you. ♥

  591. a btw, They are indeed yodeling that Obama “CAVED” when in reality if any bother to comprehend he merely had it CLARIFIED so that perhaps folks COULD comprehend just how it is to BE administrated !! Even AOL ‘headlines” it as a “CAVE” …evidently need to sooth the savaged righteous righties that still use their ‘service’,lol 11 (but it is being ‘reported’ similarly elsewhere as well as once again but a blatant spin for those seemingly incapable of bothering to FACT CHECK !!!

  592. Delightful find the new postings and delighted to find them so on the ‘mark’ ! Have a difficult time comprehending WHY ANY would still allow themselves to be GOP flagrantly spouting self various (hypocritical) self-righteousness and etc, seems a lack of comprehension skill or ability as well as a very sure indication of just truly lacking base common sense for own self preservation/survival/etc !!
    As for odd man (and so very out of touch with actual reality) Noah…well a major GBO for sure as seems nothing but bloviated dithering claptrappings which somehow he narcissistically intakes to figure HE actually matters but will offer him up as an excellent example of the (these days) rather biased and dimwitted typical posers who WILL continuously attempt to convince others that it is THEM and NOT him who is truly the dimwitted !! Alas and alack and a whatever, it evidently floats his boat and therewith he will continue to attempt to muddy up the waters ,likely never realizing how truly little others actually/factuallycare regarding his ditherings other than perhaps to consider him a rather pitiful example of an extremely small minority that do indeed exist and remain free to be so. Should we consider sending him a mirror so that perhaps he would not feel so alone ?….Think JCP sells them…..;- ) !!! )
    Back to the kudos and thanks to M&H for the more frequent posts…It remains a sincere pleasure !!!

  593. Thank you Ladies..This is the best post yet…Still giggling ..

  594. Best post yet..Thank you Margaret!!

  595. P.S. Lots more great posts at the slacktivist blog but I’ll leave you with this one with Ellen and her Hawaiian chair and a few words on the JCPenney brouhaha. I laughed so hard it hurt!! Love that woman.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/03/being-a-culture-warrior-must-be-exhausting/

  596. We’re spoiled for posts this week! So happy!

    Here’s more links, ladies and gents!

    Lots of good reading in this one on the Contraception Kerfuffle:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/10/old-men-pretending-to-be-newly-upset-at-old-news/

    On religious freedom:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/09/bishops-and-burkhas-and-buggies/

    and a random one….http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/08/a-useful-recipe-i-hope-you-wont-need/

    Happy weekend, all!

  597. Frankly, if we had had gone to a single government-run health care program, the birth control controversy would not be an issue and we wouldn’t have a situation where a Methodist nurse working in a Catholic hospital can’t get birth control coverage but a Catholic working in a Methodist hospital can. And will.

    Go figure.

    JCPenney isn’t nearby so I haven’t been in years, but I’m willing to make the trip for Ellen.

  598. Anyone else notice how the Troll went for the low hanging fruit and ignored the really good stuff?

  599. Hi, Penny.

    Don’t sweat the troll.
    I like the Obama Administration’s decision, and the TeaRepublicans are going to bitch no matter what.

  600. Noah, please read before you post from now on. The cost of contraception will be born by the insurance companies when a religious institution elects not to pay for it. This cannot be passed to the premium payer. The insurance companies are also required to prove that 80% of the premium paid by the insured goes for treatment. ACA has actually slowed increases to premiums to a trickle, as this regulation goes into effect. I would also tell you that until you die and reincarnate as a woman, your opinions don’t mean diddly to most of us of the female persuasion.

  601. By hit another one out of the park, the ball(s) in question lies squarely between the legs of the poor, as the increased premiums they will have to pay, as we continue to force insuring of more and more of things of this nature. All the while lining the pockets of the insurance companies. Way to look out for big business Mr. President.

    I can see my portfolio including condoms now. Now that government insurance is buying them the price should increase 500% or more. Remember those $20,000 hammers?

  602. Thanks again ladies. I love to visit. It looks like me and a million or two others. I get this funny little feeling that you two are about to become “blog stars.?

    I think Ellen would love to chat with you two.

    Penny@1:09 Thank you! Thank you! Well done.

    Happy Henry@1:26 Luv U

    K.P.More1:33 Good one! Still Laughing!

  603. President Obama didn’t cave to anybody. The “accomodation” simply states that if an institution feels it is against their beliefs to pay for contraception, they don’t have to, but the insurance provider will be required to do so. Women will still have access to free contraception, regardless of where they work, and the religious freedom of the institution will be respected. Oh, and the insurance companies will save money with the reduction of unwanted pregnancies. Sounds like The President hit another one out of the park. When the zealots come back whining, they will be exposed as the “my way or the highway” types they are and we know just how to deal with them, don’t we. AT THE BALLOT BOX!!

  604. Thank you Helen and Margaret too……….I read this daily. Keep on truckin ladies…………and I can’t wait for your next post. You’re always right on!

  605. You always hit the nail on the head. As for the “wonderful” people participating in the current primaries…together they don’t make a whole person. The percentage of people voting in the primaries is very low, which tells me that the people in their own party don’t believe in them.

    As for Ellen…she is well loved by gazillions…those million moms are not too bright.

  606. jsri
    that is a really flawed example. Flood insurance is by my personal experience always an additional to traditional home owners insurance. That is a coverage issue that has nothing to do with the intended purpose of insurance and is off topic. Insurance is meant to cover an expense that would otherwise bankrupt or seriously hinder financially a person. Would you pay an insurance premium for your daily cup of coffee?

    If it is as you say that insurance companies( or all corporations if you as a Liberal) are acting in an illegal mater, that is again aside the point of the intended purpose of insurance.

  607. I have really enjoyed your blog, Ladies. So good to know that ALL are not crazy. I will gladly be your biggest fan!

  608. As jsri said above, Helen & Margaret are a breath of fresh air. I’d like to add that Noah and his ilk are like f*rts in contrast to that fresh air. They temporarily spoil the freshness, but they dissipate soon enough.

  609. You are great! Keep it going!

  610. My goodness, I don’t know what happened to my name. Computers are full of surprises.

  611. My daughter married the woman she loves in NYC yesterday. Rock on, Helen and Margaret!

  612. Anyone who thinks that insurance is designed to protect people from catastrophic events, suffers from failed thinking!

    A prime example is that of friends in Vermont whose home was washed away in a flash flood recently and the insurance company refused to pay because their homeowner’s policy didn’t specifically protect against flooding. The fact that this was a once in a multi-century event, and they didn’t live in a flood prone area didn’t cut any ice with their insurers.
    Although the idea of shared premiums, shared sacrifices and shared payouts might have been the original intent of insurance, it no longer pertains. In recent years insurance companies have gone out of their way to frighten people into “protecting” themselves and stiffing them at payoff time. But it is their forays into health “insurance” that has proved to be a cash bonanza and is no longer intended to protect against catastrophe. It is simply a way of managing costs for health related conditions by promising much but delivering as little as possible. It’s called making a profit the old fashioned American way
    But I do admit that this ruthless charade employs a lot of people

    Helen & Margaret, You guys are a breath of fresh air. Keep it coming!

  613. Yay! Helen and Margaret are back–and absolutely correct, as usual.

    Honestly, Helen, I think that “one million moms” is a desperate exaggeration–rather like the rest of the statistics in the Republican side of the ongoing war on women, gays, and anybody not exactly like them. It’s a power thing, in my opinion. They had some for a while, and they’re not happy about losing it.

    Also, why do Republican presidential candidates and various religious leaders care so much about what goes on in my bed (or wherever)? Only two men–my husband and my doctor–are entitled to be interested; everybody else can butt out. If health insurance covers Viagra, it ought to be required to cover contraception. Period, full stop.

    Thank you, ladies–word from you always makes for a better day.

  614. As much as I would like to say I am surprised I am not. Liberal 101 states, first attack is always on the messenger. Glad to see you all are putting so much thought into my personal life. Shows me I am getting to you, or you wouldn’t bother. I am sure, the day after they find the Sasquatch, I will find a Liberal able to discus topics rather than make personal attacks. Well, maybe not the day after…

  615. I too will shop at JC Penney, and buy Citgo gas because it gives fuel oil for the poor, and buy Cabot cheeses because it’s farmer-owned (so is Land o’Lakes in the midwest).

    I wonder if priests’ choices of sex partners are affected by this issue….

  616. Roz, thank you for your kind words.

    Best wishes, Tante

  617. Love you ladies.. Religion and politics are like oil and water.

  618. Brilliantly written! So glad a friend of mine shared this with me. I certainly hope more and more people are able to read your wise words.

    Thank you!

  619. I just love you guys ….Stay Sassy ladies…Stay Sassy <3

  620. Mary form Mass. YES LETS GET THE LADY’S ON ELLEN’S SHOW!!!!
    EVERYONE FORWARD THIS TO ELLEN NOW!!!!

  621. First let me say how much I love you. You and your directness rock!

    I just wanted to add how in the Phillipines the population growth is totally costing the country all arable land due to the need for housing for all those Filipino Catholics whose bishop says no birth control. Their poputlation should double during this century. Contrast them with Thialand which now has birth control and is prospering more all the time while the Phillipines is going downhill rapidly. Dear lord, please help those people out! Can’t someone put something in the water?

  622. Helen, you are too too funny! Thanks for making my day!

  623. Penny-
    You did more than you think.
    Appreciate your take on and info re:PP.
    Thank you.

    Helen-
    Thank you. No JC Penneys here but point taken.
    And yes, the beautiful, precious LGBT children of those million moms are watching Ellen- whether it is on the TV or in the news. Those kids need everyday examples of real people, celebrities or no, living real lives to know “It gets better “.

  624. I do like what I have read here on your blog. I too am of your generation and I completely agree with you. I look forward to many more of your posts.

  625. Have a great weekend Helen and Margaret. Get some rest. You worked hard this week. Treat yourself to some pie!

    Love you lots. Ready you ALL the time. Glad you are feeling feisty again.

  626. WOW!!! I am new here and LOVE IT!
    You two Ladies are amazing!!

    Count me in…I will always FIGHT LIKE A GIRL!!!!

  627. Noah. No way baby. No one cares. No cake for you. No more comments please. No you didn’t waste more time here where NO one cares about you. NO more NOah. NONONOAH.

    He. He. He. Sorry folks but I like thinking that he’ll read this and post again. If he is wasting his time here, maybe he isn’t voting, procreating, or otherwise making things worse off somewhere out in the real world.

    Come on Noah. Talk to me. Becuase I care. Really I do. Go on and show everyone how much I care by positng something else. Come on. You can do it. Type it baby. Type it. I am waiting for you.

  628. Hey everyone. Hope your having a good day and enjoying another fun post from our Queen of the Blog Miss Helen. In an attempt not to feed the troll I wish to simply talk about him rather than to him.

    The funniest things about that Noah moron is that I just know he is all upset sitting at his computer – probably spilling his seed all over the floor while typing – and then cries when he realizes that Helen and Margaret are approaching 5 MILLION hits and have a HUGE following on Facebook and Twitter. Poor Noah. Maybe 8 people total actually care about what he writes.

    And the other thing funny about that Noah guy, besides the fact that Matthew handed him his ass for everyone to see over on the MOD page, is that he actually keeps writing to Miss Helen like she give a shit. Please Miss Helen, pplease see me. I want to have an audience like you. Please Mama come to my comment and be with me.

    Whatever gilrs. Power to DAH people!!!! Keep it hangin’ in a dry place. Put your make-up on and go out and make the world a little happier and a little wilder. Welcomes to the WeekEND!!!!!

    Love you Helen. Love you Margaret. Get it on!!!!!
    :cool: PEACE OUT

  629. Yes, you did Penny. He will go away and we all will continue to donate in his “honor” :-)

  630. Crap. I fed a troll and probably gave him energy to post again. Sorry everyone. I will punish myself later by making a donation to Planned Parenthood in Helen’s honor.

  631. Noah,

    I get the impressiot that you like to argue for the sake of argument. OK. Whatever floats your boat. None of this is personal because we are all simply screen names in cyperspace.

    I assume you are a man. Most women – not all women – but most women have either used a Planned Parenthood or know a friend or family member who has. We know what Planned Parenthood is and isn’t.

    I have seen those videos becuase I volunteer at a clinic in Texas. All those vidoes show is that one of the thousands of PP employees had either bad judgement or was just a bad employee. It happens. Maybe she just wanted the “pimp” out of her office so she could go talk to someone about what to do. Have you seen the video of the Friday’s waiter taking a bath in the kitchen sink? Didn’t make me think that all Friday’s employees are bad or that Friday’s restaurants condone that type of behavior.

    On any given day in this country, some Republican politician with an axe to grind does some sort of investigation on PP. In Ausitn, where I volunteer, the Attorney General of Texas keeps sending (at tax payers expense) auditors to Planned Parenthood. Several times a year! How many business would stand for that harassment. And guess what? They never find anything. Don’t beleive me? Check with the AG’s office on line to see if an investigation has proven wrong doing. I think auditors came last year three times. I hear it happens all over the state because some Republican politician is just dying to find something to stick to those liberal women…blah blah blah.

    While you are at the AG’s office you might notice that another charity, the Texas Hwy Patrol Officer’s Association is under investigation. The AG shut down their office, froze their accounts and it looks like some folks are going to jail. I guess they did something wrong. google it. Funny how PP seems to weather the same storm over and over again.

    As for a Komen, you are just not well informed. They sent Planned Parenthood and no one else a letter in December telling them they would not be eliglbe for funds because of the investigation. Hmmm. That’s funny. They fund Penn State but no letter there. They fund Parkland Hosptial in Dallas also under investigation but no letter there. You think maybe it was a political move against Planned Parenthood? I do.

    Plannned Parenthood didn’t cause the firestorm that came after. We women did that all by ourselves. I am sure PP enjoyed the donations but I bet you that they absolutely hated seeing another women’s organization go down in flames. Sad really.

    Noah. You don’t have to like Planned Parenthood. Too bad becuause they do a lot of good. When this investigation proves nothing, will you change your mind then? Prpbably not. You are set in your ways. I am set in mind. I wish we could all just agree to disagree and call it a day. Women don’t have to have an abortion. They don’t have to use birth control. They don’t have to ever set food inside a Planned Parenthood clinic. Why not give it a rest?

    They have been investigated in every state on mulitple occassions and yet here they are. Open for business and serving millions of women. And there’s the Texas Hwy Patrol Association, sitting closed with a lot of bad people looking at fines and jail time.

    Have a nice day. I don’t spend all my time here so if you respond I may not see it. Knowing what little I do know about you , I am sure there will be a response. Not knowing anything about me, you will actually think I care what you have to say next… Sorry sir, but I am here on the frontlines and you are simply someone living through a UTube video that has been around for years and didn’t do squat. I don;t care what you have to say next. I spent to much time caring what you said last.

  632. The compromise consists of emphasizing the insuror rather than the employer. For decades our family has had to have two health insurance policies because one just did not cover everything fate could throw at you and get coverage for. If I had been working for one of those “publicly” oriented church organizations such as a school or hospital, I would simply have resorted to another back-up policy to covered what was needed. Now lets just see how well the RCC settles down and handles the compromise. If it is still unhappy then it is obvious that there is something else going on other than their vaunted every sperm is sacred. They just won’t settle for anything unless they have total — in every aspect — control of everyone and everything. Yours truly should know as I am a cradle Catholic with the whole school uniform background.

  633. *oye herd of sheep

  634. You are both wonderful!!! I absolutely agree with everything you have written. I am so tickled that your wonderful blogs have been shared with me. Keep on fighting for freedom!!!

  635. Helen, at least these people have the courage to step up and say what they feel is right in regards to abortion. You and your heard of sheep never will, as you chose not to in your story. If you actually believe in anything, then here is your chance to show it. If you are better than the people you spend all your time tearing down then tell us what you believe. Does the unborn child ever have any rights. I am betting you believe the unborn child never has any until birth. Should I be wrong, then pick a number, month 1-9. I don’t expect you to because in 1.5 years not a single Liberal ever has. Cynthia failed miserably, I have hopes you can do better.

    The Ellen thing is a non story. People have the right, despite what you think Helen, to express themselves. You have the right to try and keep our nation divided and fighting each other, and these people have the right to protest anything they want. If you can support the hundreds of felonies committed by OWS and defend their right to do it, then I think it is slightly hypocritical for you to be upset with these folks, just sayin.

    Helen, lets be real for a moment. When you talk about freedom, what you really mean is for people like you. People who believe what you believe, and no one else. Word to the wise, that is not freedom, that is Communism.

    Just like this legislation mandating contraception by insurance. This is not what insurance is intended for. Insurance is designed to protect people from catastrophic events, not every day expenses. Cancer, surgery, extended hospitalization, prescriptions, big ticket items. Not a $1 condom. Insurance is already costly enough. To mandate it to have to cover every little thing a person might desire will have major consequences, mostly to those who already cannot afford it.

  636. [...] http://margaretandhelen.com/2012/02/10/100000-gay-kids-secretly-watch-ellen/ This was written by ThomasPaladin. Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012, at 2:58 pm. Filed under American Society, Politics. Bookmark the permalink. Follow comments here with the RSS feed. Post a comment or leave a trackback. [...]

  637. I am sure happy I discovered your blog. Keep it up sista!

  638. Helen, I just recently started folowing your blog and I just love it. You remind me of my Great Aunt Ruth who passed away at 90 2 yrs ago. She was a strong woman with strong opinions and she had no problem letting others know what her opinions were in no uncertain terms and she did not suffer fools gladly. I think she would have followed you too and enjoyed every minute of it. Keep up the good work, we need more down-to-earth folks like you!

  639. Now you’re on a roll, Helen. Good to see another post so soon after the last one. Keep calling them like you see them! We’ll keep trying to squash stupid whenever and wherever it raises its ugly head. It IS a full-time job. :wink:

  640. I think that Margaret and Helen would be great guests on Ellen’s show. I just wrote in. If you love them, too, why not send in the suggestion to the show along with me?

  641. Oh Helen, thank you for only speaking truth. I’m so sick of people trying to shove their religion down our collective throats when we simply don’t feel the way they do. They can’t understand why we feel this way, but we are allowed to feel anyway we wish when it comes to religion. It’s not mandatory that we all accept their religion and I resent it when they continue to berate me as a result. Thanks for saying it loudly and clearly enough for them to hopefully stop their insistent harassment.

  642. The kerfluffle created by the RCC was purely for purposes of distraction from the on-going scandals. Yes, they can read. Yes, they knew the healthcare coverage on contraception really wouldn’t harm them and that the same provision is used by well over 20 states in this country and is also included in Romneycare.

    Bad cess to them all! The god they pray to has to be Mars!

  643. Are there Margaret & Helen tshirts? I want one! Love you gals :)

  644. Easier was the last anon. Can’t input my email address.

  645. Helen and Margaret, thanks so much for the successive posts. Another great one. Appreciate your sharing so much of yourselves with us. If all these churches and all these staunchly pro-life people would just take care of all these babies, we wouldn’t have a care in this world would we? Yes, we should all be responsible and make sensible decisions all the time. Go tell that to a teenager though, in the heat of the moment. At least arming that teenager with some knowledge about contraception would help, maybe. I don’t understand why people just do not seem to find the correlation between not informing, not providing contracteption, and unwanted pregnancies.

  646. Tante, I appreciate your emails, thank you for sharing…
    Vie, so true, separation of church and state has been the law of the land for some time. The Rethugs deny evolution, so it’s just logical that they keep trying to take us backwards!

  647. Call me naive but I thought /remember way back in high school there was separation of church and state? WTF happened? MONEY MONEY MONEY AND BUSH!
    We have got to get these blog out to everyone we know wake them up have a conversation. It is just plan wrong to insist on any one trying to control anyone else. Isn’t why the had the big fight back in colonial tines?
    The Republican party seems whacked out. Maybe to much in breading?
    hehehehe
    Love you ladys

  648. Thank you for another great post.

    This past Tuesday, I contacted JC Penney and I spoke with a very lovely customer service representative. Apparently, she had been on the receiving end of nasty comments by members of the self-righteous million bullies. She was very appreciative of my comments regarding how proud I was in Penney’s for not allowing the nasty, hateful bullies to sway the company with their disgusting anti-homosexual ideology.

    I mentioned it had been a while since I last shopped at Penney’s but I planned to shop at Penney’s next time I needed something which their stores carry to show my support and appreciation for the company standing up to bullies. I stated I was heterosexual but I find prejudice and discrimination intolerable.

    Yesterday, I went to my local Planned Parenthood clinic with a donation. I had a pleasant conversation with an employee. I informed the employee that I use to donate to SGK but no more. I stated I would be dropping by with a donation as often as possible. She offered to have headquarters send a thank you note. I declined because I did not need the recognition and I preferred the $0.45 to remain within the organization.

    Best wishes, Tante

  649. Susan, I had not heard that! I went looking to find out why the Republicans won’t renew it and found this post on Saira’s blog.

    Conservatives Hate Women, Gays, Lesbians, and Immigrants (So What Else is New?)

    http://sairasays.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/conservatives-hate-women-gays-lesbians-and-immigrants-so-what-else-is-new/

  650. I just discovered you girls. Keep telling it like it is ! Wish I lived close to one of you; we’d go out to lunch,have a few “foo-foo” drinks and solve the world’s problems. If I live long enough, I’ll do that with my granddaughter. For now, she’s still in the Charming Charlies and Forever 21 stage.

    Warm Liberal hugs to you both !

  651. Thanks for keeping them coming H&M!

    It is the time for all voices/fingers on deck!

    namaste!

  652. Helen you are incredible and Margaret you just make me laugh.
    You two make an amazing pair! :-)

  653. Ann Telnaes’ animated cartoon captures this game perfectly – and it is a political game! It’s posted on Moms Hugs under the caption: “Presidential Election Year – Game On!” [http://momshugs.blogspot.com]

    I’ll probably sit in purgatory until the Milky Way disappears for this, but just couldn’t resist considering men can’t have babies….

    Hugs ~ Moms

  654. It never ceases to amaze me that these guys, usually guys, who constantly claim government is bad, government is inefficient and the best government is the least government, somehow all want to be part of government and further more think government should spend it’s time and efforts on legislating and enforcing vaginal behavior and usage. Personally I think the owners of said vaginas can make better decisions about the usage of them than any government, even one informed by the best religious dogma money can buy. And of course that is a whole other discussion, the one about how much money is involved in pushing religion into government.

  655. Quite, quite brilliant, absolutely spot-on and I wish I’d written this. I will, however, post it all over hell and high water. You’ve said it all as it would come out of my mouth. Thank you for saving me the time! :)

  656. I’m a new fan. Wow, you ladies are amazing! You hit the nail on the head. Thank you for sharing!

  657. Helen,

    You’re on a roll this month and I’m loving it. Keep ‘em coming.

  658. Lesbians are people too

  659. In today’s NY Times we learn that Republicans are stepping up their war on women: “Even in the ultrapolarized atmosphere of Capitol Hill, it should be possible to secure broad bipartisan agreement on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act, the 1994 law at the center of the nation’s efforts to combat domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking.[...] Yet not a single Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee voted in favor last week when the committee approved a well-crafted reauthorization bill introduced by its chairman, Senator Patrick Leahy, and Senator Michael Crapo, a Republican of Idaho, who is not on the committee. [...]
    Mustering the 60 votes needed to get the bill through the full Senate will not be easy, even though previous reauthorizations were approved by unanimous consent. Recalcitrant Republicans should be made to explain to voters why they refuse to get behind the federal fight against domestic violence and sexual assaults.”
    How can any woman, even a staunch Republican, continue to vote for these arrogant misogynists?

  660. Once again you ladies have spoken the truth, cutting to the heart of the matter with clarity and an utter lack of bullplop. I also rather appreciate what Ted had to say several comments before mine. Last but not least, I send a big Thank You JCPenney for standing strong to keep Ellen DeGeneres as their spokesperson!

    Religion should have NO influence on how we are governed. We should each be allowed to believe (or not believe) as we each see fit. Live and let live. I’m tired of all this holier-than-thou doodoo which is being promulgated upon us all by this religion over here or that sect over there.

    I say to all the religious zealots who would have it otherwise, “GET YOUR GODS OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT! Failure to comply will inevitably result in a new revolution in which heads WILL roll! I mean it, really!”

  661. Amen Helen! I spoke to my god this morning and she said…WTF is wrong with you people…are you stuck on stupid? Is this what I taught you?

    There definitely is an epidemic of “blind hate and fear” in this country. And these 1 million women are a part of the source. Another is ….

    Obama is caving….Damn him!

    Peace.

  662. No time to talk now, I’m off to J C Penney’s website to order a housewarming gift.

  663. Chrystal:

    In other words the best way to avoid killing babies is to use birth control!

  664. As usual, your post is the kind of ‘right’ thinking that I find useful and sane.
    And, as usual, my thanks to you and Helen for including us all in your discussions!

  665. I don’t understand, T.Brady, what you mean by Catholics being forced to use birth control. No one is forcing anyone. My daughter started taking the pill at 14, not to prevent pregnancy, but to prevent ovarian cysts. The pill is used medically for reasons other than to prevent pregnancy, why hasn’t someone mentioned this? I urge all of you to go to the White House web page and sign the petition regarding this issue. Margaret and Helen, I simply adore you both.

  666. I love you ladies and I’m so glad that you’re posting more often. Keep it up!

  667. Holy cow, you live in Maine, Margaret? Aren’t things going to Hell in a handbasket around here?

    Thanks for inspiring us the way you do, ladies. Keep the faith.

  668. AMEN to freedom from religion. As a gay man, my experience with so-called people of faith has turned me against all forms of religion. I have a strong faith in God and know that sooner or later, these hating Christians will get what’s coming to them.

    The GOP wants to turn the clock back at least 100 years and has moved so far to the right that I’ve lost respect for anyone who still supports them. Let them have Newt..or Frothy Mix…or Romney. I hope and pray that people who vote are smart enough to see their pandering for what it is.

    Thanks for another great post. Keep them coming. We need you…

  669. New Fan here. You ladies sure know how to hold court. Sorry, but I don’t think Catholics should be forced to use birth control if they don’t want to. But I also think having a lot of children is irresponsible.

  670. Helen,

    At the insistence (ultimatum) of the Knights of Columbus, the words “under God” were added in 1954 to the Pledge of Allegiance. The next short step was in 1956, to officially change the Motto of the U.S. from “E Pluribus Unum” to “In God We Trust.” Once American’s children were indoctrinated with the idea that America is “a country under God,” the separation of Church and State was almost accomplished.

    The 2012 National Defense Authorization Act passed in December, 2011 which authorizes the indefinite detention without trial of anyone suspected of being a terrorist, was the coup de gras.

    And now, Obama is going to compromise with the Catholic Church on their opposition to reproductive health care for women.

    This morning I notified my attorney that I am formally giving up the fight for “Constitutional Freedom.”

    Ted

  671. I love you both. That is all. ;-)

  672. There are way too many people who would vote for the devil himself if he simply claimed to be an anti-homosexual, pro-life Republican. Let’s all pray none of the Phelps clan ever run for office.

  673. O yes, that wonderful and reliable rhthym method of birth control…. My parents relied on that and my mother had 18 pregnancies. Of those, there were 8 live births. Two of those babies were premature and died. There was one full-term stillbirth. Once she nearly bled to death. Is this what the men of the so-called “Right” want for their wives?

  674. Good morning, ladies.
    I’m not an Ellen fan (I don’t think she’s funny) but I don’t agree with those who don’t like her because she’s a lesbian and want her fired from her show and/or want to boycott JC Penney’s because of Ellen.

    As to the Catholic Church, they sure have a lot to say about women and the reproductive choices they make, but when it comes to Catholic priests raping boys, and allowing said rapists to travel from parish to parish after being found out, why, they have absolutely NOTHING to say.

  675. delurkergurl –

    re: the Phelps and their “church.”

    I really don’t see how the dead people’s relatives control themselves – I really don’t. How these Phelps have survived intact this long is beyond comprehension. And I guarantee you that – at least in West Virginia, where I’m from – the State Police wouldn’t look very hard for their assailant.

  676. Dear Margaret, please get a couple of tv trays. That way, you and Howard can eat dinner while watching Ellen. JC Penney sells them.

    Dear Helen, your wit and wisdom are wonderful. Reading your blog is always the highlight of my day.

  677. I didn’t think I would ever be glad that I’m too old to worry about contraception – but I do for my daughter and granddaughter. And I think
    I’ll go to JC Penny this afternoon and buy them something cute on my
    way too Planned Parenthood to make a donation.

  678. Forgot to say, THANK YOU for your time and another great post! Be well, ladies.

  679. The Westboro cult is threatening to picket the Powell children’s funeral, in gay protest. Apparently they think God hates gay people more than he hates opportunistic bottom feeding haters like them.

  680. I totally agree. If you are against gay marriage, don’t marry someone of the same sex. If you are against abortion – don’t have one. If you are against birth control, don’t use it. But keep in mind that birth control can help avoid unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion! The best way to limit the number of abortions is to limit the number of unwanted pregnancies!

    BTW – It sounds like Helen may go to a Unitarian Universalist church. If so, good for her! I am a UU, and the primary reason is that as a lesbian, I am accepted there with no judgement.

  681. You are amazing!

  682. The Grand Obstruction Party is so worried now that the economy is starting to recover that they pull out the social issues to divert attention from it. If you don’t believe in birth control, no health care in the world will require you to use it. But don’t stand in my way! And what is up with viagra (sorry) being paid for by the churches??


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