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Posted by: Helen Philpot | November 3, 2010

Oh Happy Day

Margaret, happy days are here again. The skies above are blue again.  It really is  just too good to be true.  The Republican gains delivered by the Tea Party are almost more than I could hope for.  I only wish that lovely Witch in Delaware could have come along for the party as well.

Now let’s see.  Where do I begin?  Our taxes will soon be about zero percent so let’s start spending today to get this economy back on track.  The government will shrink to a size somewhat equal to the size of our military which means  Social Security has to go.  Those of us who were smart enough to save for a rainy day will be high and dry… for at least a few months.   And I got a good check-up from my doctor recently so I don’t need my Medicare… for at least a few months.

Now about that black man in the Oval Office.  It will take a few days to get impeachment hearings underway, but until then I hear they are moving him out of the White House and into that little room at the top of the Washington Monument so he can’t cause any more trouble.  Oh and Ms. Pelosi is out too.  How dare she take on the Health Insurance Industry.  Didn’t she realize people own stock in those companies?

Gays are no more.  They all left, presumably to join the French Army.   And teen pregnancies are a thing of the past.  Teens will no longer have sex.  Except the Palins.  The Palins will abandon teen pregnancies as easily as a camel will pass through the eye of an early pregnancy test stick.  No.  The Palins will continue to give birth to abstinence only babies.  That we know for sure.

Abortion?  Well everyone knows that was just a luxury American women really couldn’t afford anyway.  And government will now be small enough to actually fit inside a woman’s uterus, so all women with unwanted pregnancies have left, presumably to join the French Army. 

Sarah Palin has a clear path to the Presidency in 2012… which means we’ll have another presidential election in 2014 when she quits.  No problems though.  Michele Bachmann has been talking to God and he assures her that the two years as Vice President will fly by and she will be in the Oval Office before she knows it.  Let’s all start a prayer group for her now.

I found it interesting that John Boehner declared that Washington has been put on notice.  Considering how long he’s been a part of Washington, I say Politician heal thyself.  Yes.  Washington has been put on notice indeed.  It’s been put on notice that Americans have the attention span of a gnat.

If there is one thing we learned last night, it is not that Americans are mad at their government.  It’s not that Americans want lower taxes.  It’s not even that Tea Party Americans who voted for McCain don’t like Barack Obama.  We knew all that.  What we learned last night is something we really should have known all along.  Americans want what we don’t have.   And once we have it, we no longer want it.  2012 will be here before we know it, and  I wonder how we will feel then about what we have now.

No worries Margaret.   Nothing changes quickly in Washington.  And that is probably the best thing about our system of government.  Time is on our side.  Eventually Americans realized that slavery was unacceptable.  Eventually Americans realized that women should be given the right to vote.  Eventually  Americans realized that Senior Citizens needed a little help at the end of their lives and those living in poverty needed a little leg up from time to time.   Eventually we even realized that healthcare should be available for anyone who needs it…. errr.  Well, it takes time.  That’s my point.

Now go have some pie and take some time to enjoy your day.  I mean it.  Really.

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  4. Here ya go Auntie jean, I didn’t know if you wanted it posted here as well as the kitchen but jic. ;)


    I love Lions too.

    Can you tell i’m watching the draft and Detroit just picked? LOL LOL

    Ill chat with you soon around the table.

  5. The Insane Reality of Delusional Thinking

    Americans used to pride themselves upon being a practical people, largely immune to dogmatism. Commonsense and know-how were universally seen as virtues. Crackpot and zealots of the David Coresh, Jim Jones type have abounded, but rarely commanded a mass following.

    “It ain’t so much the things we don’t know that us into trouble. It’s the things we know for sure that just ain’t so.” This proverbial expression so perfectly sums up American pragmatism that it been wrongly attributed to upwards of a half-dozen wise men, ranging from Mark Twain and Will Rogers to Yogi Berra. It actually appears to have been the tag line of humorist Josh Billings, a sort of 19th century Jeff Foxworthy.

    Today Billings would be scorned as an elitist and chastised for incivilty . Unfortunately, when it comes to politics, a sizeable proportion of our fellow Americans have abandoned reason for demonic conspiracy theories, magical thinking and miracle cures.

    Increasingly, one of our two great political parties appears to be governed by what Charles P. Pierce called the “There Great Premises” of talk radio. “First Great Premise. Any theory is valid if it moves units Second Great Premise. Anything can be true if someone says it loudly enough. Third Great Premise. Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is measured by how fervently they believe it.”

    Maybe its hard times, and maybe its an African-American president with an odd name, but several leading contenders for the 2012 GOP nomination express ideas that might lead to involuntary hospitalization anywhere outside a tea party rally or a TV studio.

    After all it’d be one thing for me to believe I was secretly married to Juiette Ginche, quite another to fly to Paris to seek her out.

    Consider Donald Trump. This preposterous self-promoter has been nearly ubiquitous , expressing Looney Toons notions about President Obama previously confined to emailers who write in all caps “WHEN ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO GET AWAY FROM THE KOOL-AID LONG ENOUGH TO START LOOKING INTO THIS MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE?”

    Confronted with Obama’s certified birth certificate by ABC’s George Staphanopoulos, even noted flake Michelle Bachmann abandoning the conspiracy theory of the president’s origins. (I’m betting she already regrets this lapse into temporary sanity” Leading Republicans such as Karl Rove and Arizona Gov. Jan brewer have argued that the “birthism” makes sensible voters think of the GOP as the Nut Party.

    So naturally Trump’s emerged as one of the favorites to win the Republican nomination assuming he seeks it. (Trump release his income tax records? I don’t think so.The man bankrupted several casinos.) So while I don’ think he believes she nonsense he spouts,what”s he up to? Alas, the simplest explaination is that he’s running.

    Prediction: Releasing Obama’s “long-form” birth certificate will change few minds. You can’t argue with crazy.

    Alas, that’s merely the tip of the proverbial iceberg where GOP delusional thinking is concerned. Judging by my inbox, a large proportion of angry white men also believe that the burst housing bubble and financial meltdown of 2007-2008 were cause by-wait for it- President Jimmy Carter. Syndicated columnist Thomas Sowell has popularized a version of the poisonous myth.

    Carter, see signed the Community Reinvestment act, supposedly requiring banks to make real estate loans to improvident ghetto dwellers who couldn’t repay them. President Clinton, Janet Reno, and ACORN then threatened lawsuits, forcing banks to make bad loans, selling them off to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and bankrupting the US Treasury.

    I sometimes challenge True Believers. Never mind that no law ever encouraged bad loans, I say. Shouldn’t Presidents Reagan, Bush 1 or Bush 11 have done something?” Rep Barney Frank comes the response prevented a vigilant George W Bush from acting.

    And how did a minority congressman do that? Frank would resent being called a “minority” one guy answered Un-oh, I think we’ve touched bottom. There’s no ;point mentioning W’s advocacy of sub-prime lending to somebody with no clue how the US government works.

    Also contrary to Republican mythology, the infamous Bush tax cuts did nothing but increase revenue, as tax cuts never do. As Fiscal Times columnist Bruce Bartltt shows, federal revenues dropped from 20>6 percent of GDP in 2000 to 18.5 percent in 2007. The 2008 recession dropped them to 14.9 percent where they linger today–the proximate cause of current huge budget deficits.

    Ah,but here’s the tricky part. BOP delusional thinking’s not merely impervious to reality.Its also not confined to the Republican Party. Every public opinion poll extant snows that large majorities of voters want no reduction to Medicare,Medicaid and Social Security. Oh, and no new taxes.

    By a 2 to 1 majority, Americans also think that Conress should refuse to increase the National Debt limit, a madly irredponsible act.

    People wouldn’t say that if they understood the consequences. Alas, the things you don’t know can also hurt you.

    There it is, Jean. When will he discuss the delusional thinking of the left?

    Here is another commentary of equal worth.

    “I believe its all coming to an end
    Oh well, we’re gonna pretend
    Gone, gone, its all gone
    There’s no one on the corner
    There’s nobody home
    It was cool cool, just all cool
    Now, its over for me
    and its over for you.
    I believe the world is burning to the ground
    Oh well, I guess were gonna find out
    Lets see how far we’ve come.”

    Rob Thomas and Matchbox 20

  6. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Help, help, help, – again! Gene Lyons has done it once more with his column on the current political scene. A biting, beautiful summary entitled “the insane reality of delusional thinking.” Could one of you please track it down and put it up here for me? One of these days, I’m gonna learn how to do it myself but as most of you know, I’m a slow learner.

    BTW Cynthia, your excellent piece on Apr. 27, 2011 at 1:29PM in the Kitchen is a perfect example of “if it works, break it!” Especially as a conservative thinker, if you can make a fast buck off it and then mess it up. e.g. Medicare, Medicaid, Wall Street and all kinds of “privatization” and “de-regulation.”

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  7. You are the funniest person ever. I wish you were in office.

  8. Thank you, thank you for all your posts, Helen. I wish you were on TV so I could watch you everyday.

  9. This post reminds me of a favorite quip from Winston Churchill: “Americans can be counted on to do the right thing …. after they’ve exhausted all the other possibilities.”

  10. No ones’ puppet, the Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment. Liver and onions is cruel and unusual punishment.

    I don’t know if I would choose death or not in prison, since I have never been there. Nebraska prisons have criminals trying very hard to beat the death penalty. One, I think even published a book of poetry. An adaptable person can get used to almost anything.

    I have heard that state sponsored murder is more expensive than life time warehousing. There should be some way of making them share whatever resources they have with their victims.

    Thanks for the link PFessor.

  11. Margaret & Helen, you are priceless.
    After reading a few of the comments left here it has become painfully obvious that MANY people need to get a life.

  12. re: death penalty. Jean, vengeance is absolutely one reason – and one always recognized when the death penalty is debated in the Statehouses. To deny that vengeance plays a part is to deny one of the realities of humanity.

    Also, yes you give up deterrence, but you gain permanence. Nobody who has suffered the death penalty has ever committed another crime. Not one.

    Having said that, I am opposed to it personally, but like many things, there are two sides.

    On a lighter note: for aviatiors and wannabes – if you are fed up with the childish bickering and posturing here, I have discovered a really great blog for adults:


    I hope when this captain retires he publishes his musings.

  13. No one’s puppet, I loved the liver & onions comment. :D

  14. A strange mix … Politics … Capital Punishment … And then the bible.


  15. “Bible thumping redneck.” LOL. Good one. You ought to read it sometime. Better yet, try to live it. Camp out in Matthew 5,6, and 7. Then get back to me. :lol:

  16. Without a doubt I would chose death over life in prison.

  17. Obviously everyone here has thought about capital punishment, I’d like you to entertain the thought, for a moment, that you are person charged and found guilty. Which would you prefer, a humane death or a sentence of life without parole? Everyone, I’ve ever had that discussion with, has preferred death, including me. Prison without any hope of being released seems like a living Hell and when you think of the constant angst it would cause your friends and family….
    I’ve heard, and Donna could tell us for sure, that a trial and the many appeals involved with capital punishment actually costs the taxpayers far more (assuming the defendant can’t afford an attorney) than life in prison. So it would seem that capital punishment is more about a visceral reaction than practicality. Personally, I’d lock a murder up without any intellectual or emotional stimulation and feed them liver and onions everyday.

  18. Noah..I understand…calling names is schoolyard
    But play nice.
    Read,try to understand and rebuke.
    Adios..Off to Pelosiland

  19. I guess I just feel there are too many people that are acting within the confines of the law that are living in substandard conditions their entire lives. I feel the lions share of our resources need to be spend raising the quality of life of those that play by the rules and a lot less on those that chose to violate those rules.

  20. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Donna, It is easy to see why you are considered such a fine lawyer. Your insights today are brilliant.

    My thoughts. Death by any means, natural or human induced, is irreversible. It does nothing to annul the causes. Vindication is not necessarily justice, and vengence does not validate. Better to at least try preventive measures whenever possible.

    On a lighter note, I caught the last of Olbermann today to see what the hullabaloo was all about. As he said, for seven days now, the conservatives have had control of the House starting in January for the next two years. So where are all the jobs?

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  21. like being…gad

  22. I do only litigation and practice at a very large lawfirm. I’ve been practicing for 31 years, from a top law school, and am consistently in the highest professional rankings (e.g., Best Lawyers in America). I do not say that to brag–but you asked what I do.

    Oh baloney.

    You people on M&H aren’t gullible enough to buy off on this garbage, are you? Donna is a convoluted hack and lefty misfit. These overrated blowhards from “highly rated” law schools are overpaid ambulance chasers. This nags credentials are liking being rated one of the ten best steak houses – pure malarkey for advertising.

    Don’t believe me? Take a look at the most dysfunctional institution in America – the federal gov’t. These idiots from “prestigious” law firms with Ivy League educations toot their own horns due to their pent up insecurities, but most can’t find their butt cheeks with both hands. Completely helpless.

    Donna, I’m laughing at the superior intellect. This Bible thumping redneck would tear you up in a debate of wits. You pick the subject, and I’ll prove it to the room. I’ll hammer you – and here’s betting your next gutless response of wisdom will be “I wouldn’t even bother…”

    You’re a legend in your own mind JINO. :roll:

  23. delurkergurl i know exactly what I am talking about. No question. Why you might ask? Because I am commenting on responses wrote directly to me. If they want to step up and be nasty, I can return in kind. I didn’t personally attack either person. They did. And I am the bad guy? Either way would prefer to ignore those that don’t have the ability to argue points and chose to personally attack someone.

  24. Noah, you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about with respect to Grandma Katie OR Greytdog. Years of being intentionally prodded and provoked can wear on the best of folks, and that’s exactly what these two dear people are.

  25. Grandma Katie, ye who are hypocrisy incarnate are invited to ignore those who you cannot deal with rather that be the boards gestapo. I am here to stay thanks in part to your encouragement.

  26. Grandma Katie, you’ve been quiet for a few days. I hope you’re doing OK and your pain level is down.

  27. “I would be happy if our justice system was equal for ALL citizens, regardless of wealth or skin color. Statistically, it doesn’t come close.”


  28. “depends on the family–not all families of crime victims favor the death penalty.”

    Donna, you’re absolutely right about that. I know a few families who have been in exactly this situation. Some who thought the death penalty would be exactly what they’d want, in the end decided they couldn’t support the death penalty at all. It’s easy to presume how you might feel in their shoes but putting the shoes on and walking in them is a whole different ball game.

  29. Gone for the next week or so.
    Everyone play nice.

  30. Donna,
    Thank you for a civil discourse. Have a good evening .

  31. Sorry I didn’t complete the last sentence. All the newcomers who are so good at taking potshots at various old timers and hosts. Again, don’t overstay your welcome on the porch. WE get very tired of washing it down after you have been here, and you know who you are. Go join a blog who appreciates you.

  32. Donna, I don’t believe I made any claims as to how you feel about anything. If I gave that impression It was not my intention.

    Beloved or not, I think statements like “oh wait. You are an asshat.” are uncalled for and not productive. But to each their own I suppose.

  33. Greytdog and Donna to name a few, are much in respect from all of us who have been coming here for some time. So don’t overstay your welcome on the porch.

  34. I agree with No one’s Puppet. Poor Levi may already have become obsolete.

    This amuses me. A seed corn ad begins with “Doctors and lawyers say they practice medicine or the law. Farmers plant forty crops more or less in their lifetimes. You can’t afford to practice. It has to be right the first time.”

  35. You’re welcome, Donna.

    Yes, it is a highly charged issue. I hope most of you are writing theoretically and not from experience.

    Causing someone to cease to exist in this world has tremendous metaphysical implications, if you think about it. A person with similar hopes and dreams as you and who got dressed in the morning with the expectation he would enjoy restful night is gone forever, and you sent him on his way. He existed, but now he doesn’t. Better him than you, you tell yourself and you feel a sense of relief and power.

    Under some circumstances you could go to jail for taking a life. In others, the “murder” is acceptable, even commendable. But the man is just as dead, and it could have been you.

  36. you are 100% correct about that.

  37. I would be happy if our justice system was equal for ALL citizens, regardless of wealth or skin color. Statistically, it doesn’t come close.

  38. and yes, I am a fellow in certain additional peer organizations for trials. But, again, Best Lawyers in America, Super Lawyers, and Martindale-Hubbell are precisely the sorts of “best spokesmen” of which you speak.

    Again, I don’t say this to brag. There are many fine lawyers who aren’t in those peer rankings. But you raised the subject.

  39. sorry–but it’s not something you can buy your way into. Best Lawyers in America is based on a pretty carefully scrutinized process, surveying judges and lawyers. If you look them up, they explain the process. The fact that someone may use their selection to advertise is very different–you can do that (but I don’t), but you can’t buy your way into Best Lawyers.

    There is also something called “Super Lawyers” that polls all lawyers in a particular field of practice and takes the top 5%. You also can’t buy your way into that.

    And then there’s Martindale-Hubbell. It ranks lawyers in terms of their abilities and it’s a pretty rigorous selection process. Again, impossible to buy.

    There ARE services that you can buy your way into–but you have to be invited. I get invited to several of those every year and always turn them down.

    I don’t have a clue about “Best Surgeons” but do know about the legal ratings. Sorry–you are operating under a misperception. Perhaps it’s worth checking things out before you form conclusions, much less pronounce something as “obviously” what you have concluded.

  40. I have probably posted this before your answer Donna.

    But I think the best spokesman for a doctor or lawyer is the association and accreditation that one has achieved from one’s association. Such as my
    wife has achieved the ranking of A Senior Fellow of Psychiatry. I presume there is such in law as well.

    So thus you may have achieved such accreditation.

  41. Donna:
    “I’ve been practicing for 31 years, from a top law school, and am consistently in the highest professional rankings (e.g., Best Lawyers in America). I do not say that to brag–but you asked what I do.”

    Ok. I give you the credit for graduating form a top law school.

    What I see in the Texas monthly and other rags is the increasing use of advertising of such great headings as “the Best Surgeons in Texas” or the Best Lawyers in Texas”.

    Obviously one can pay the amount needed and qualify to appear as one of the Super docs or Lawyers. Does the public know the difference?

  42. depends on the family–not all families of crime victims favor the death penalty.

    It is a very highly charged issue–no doubt about it.

  43. Thanks for your input Donna.

    Obviously this is a highly charged issue that
    juries,voters,judges,guilty,non guilty, and tax payers have to deal with.

    Not to mention the ones who feel
    that their religion has to help these “challenged” individuals who commit murder and other heinous crimes stay alive forever.

    What is the difference between death or life without parole? Another day in court and another poke in the wound of the family’s loss.

  44. Thank you, Helen!!!

  45. Greytdog, my opinion was more about the celebrity aspect of Bristol and Levi, teenagers in all generations have unprotected sex and get pregnant. But these kids have been thrust into the limelight and while it seemed like a good idea to cash in on it, the offers won’t continue. Neither of them has any talent or personality, so the next thing is they’ll have spent all their money, no new offers will materialize, and they will go bankrupt, just like all the reality show types.

  46. who says I am any less concerned about victims and potential victims? I don’t believe I’ve given you any reason on earth to say that.

    And by the way, Greytdog is beloved here–certainly by me. I would hate to lose her.

  47. Greytdog thanks for letting your true colors come out. I suspected it when you gave your opinion on Bristol. Now its confirmed with your personal attack and colorful language. Profanity is the last recourse of a weak mind. As for the typo, if your that thin skinned that a typo sets you off you should troll elsewhere, maybe on a Sponge Bob blog site, might be more your speed.

    Donna, I think we could all come up with a scenario that would back our personal beliefs. To argue in this way would just lead to inaction on every possible point of view. I do feel the innocent must be protected. I also feel that it is actually possible, much more often than you, to establish guilt conclusively. I am not saying kill them all. I am saying that in the case of violent crimes it needs to be an option. If we are going to be all touchy-feely, lets feel that way about the victims and potential victims more so than the persons doing the deeds.

  48. excellent point, He Who Must Not Be Named–meant to add that in terms of the “cost” to society but forgot.

  49. Oh, but our prisons today are a BIG part of the “free” enterprise capitalist system you promote. Jobs, jobs, jobs. This is big business in America today. It even provides cheap labor for many large corporations.

    “There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.” The figures show that the United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S. Statistics reveal that the United States holds 25% of the world’s prison population, but only 5% of the world’s people.”

    USA is # 1.

  50. Dear Noah – if you’re going to criticize me, at least have the decency to use spell check. Otherwise, you’ve as much impact on my life as any other asshat – oh wait. You are an asshat.

  51. oh–and Noah: have you not heard about people confessing to crimes they didn’t commit? Either because of mental illness or (the old mafioso thing) because it meant their families would be cared for?

    You might wish to read about the cases handled by the Innocence Project. It’s rare that something is “conclusively” shown, particularly when there have been repeated incidences of medical examiners errors or misconduct.

  52. that’s your opinion and you, of course, are entitled to hold it. I think that a great deal is served by choosing as a society not to kill people.

  53. The fact that there is such overcrowding in prisons nationwide tells me the system as it currently stands is unsustainable. Early releases also back this theory.

    I understand when it comes to a line drawing that things become difficult. It seems to me with DNA testing and other advances that there are cases where we can say conclusively we have the correct person behind bars. Also there are those that admit guilt. In cases where guilt is established this conclusively I vote to have them put down. Nothing is served by having them rot in a cell on the tax payer dime. I see it has the public being punished further by these people’s criminal acts by having to house and feed these individuals.

  54. James–interesting thoughts. Thank you.

  55. obviously, Madoff will not be serving 50-70 years–that’s simply an example of the sort of sentence that could be imposed on someone who committed a significant financial fraud.

  56. Donna, I may be the wrong person to ask. Thought provoking is an understatement. Reading Norm Patis made me uncomfortable because it was almost as if he was channeling me. I have said and thought much of what he wrote. I’m not claiming to have a mind as fine as his, though.

    He didn’t exactly write it, but cases like this remind me of ancient rituals of the kind which may have done in the Danish bog people. Each actor plays a role to its final conclusion like the cast of a kubuki play.

    Let Mr. Hays kill himself. The state shouldn’t be his enabler.

    I have had personal experience in this.
    A Vet Center counselor told me after I left the service he was disturbed by the amount of violence I had seen under unusual circumstances.

    During my hard times, I learned that the person who kills is not necessarily the same person a year or two later and that probably applies to many of our criminals, especially those who are executed after a decade. So who is being punished? It can be almost like executing someone for the deeds of another.

    On the other hand, some people develop a taste for murder. It is hard to tell them apart.

    We say it is justice, but in simple terms, it is vengance. Two of my distant relatives were brutally murdered in a robbery, so I know the toll such crimes take.

    Norm Pattis did write he might want the murderers dead if his family had been killed. It is a conundrum. A husband will never recover from the deaths of his family, and the murder victims have lost the full lives they waited an eternity against high odds to live. That cannot be ignored either.

    I would like to have violent criminals and murders spend their time in jail repaying their victims in some way rather than marking time becoming adjusted to institutionalism. Maybe it is unconstitutional, but I’d like to see it anyway.

    I oppose capital punishment, in part because innocent people die, but in this case, though I agree with Pattis, I think these two men should die. That is only my irrational emotions speaking and takes nothing from Mr. Pattis who has a fine mind.

    I agree with Mr. Pattis our system needs changes, but we won’t get them.

    You are probably right that Mr. Pattis is a good lawyer. Our legal situation has become more complex, and six of us are considering committing metaphorical murder against our Town and Country Arts group. We could use a lawyer like him.

    You will always be Poolman to me. I think it is something other than your controversial views. Otherwise, I would be banned as well. A friend on the Janeane Garafalo message board had a similar problem, and he had to change his handle to post. I was repeatedly banned for awhile because of computer problems.

  57. I do only litigation and practice at a very large lawfirm. I’ve been practicing for 31 years, from a top law school, and am consistently in the highest professional rankings (e.g., Best Lawyers in America). I do not say that to brag–but you asked what I do.

    In my work, I see judges and lawyers of all types and all levels of ability. I believe I can opine with some basis.

    If you don’t like Norm Pattis’s blog or website, so be it. Again, I wasn’t recommending it to you. I have no “passion” for him other than that he is an extremely good, well regarded lawyer who writes very well. The “passion” I have is for the profession, when it is practiced by smart, educated, committed people.

    The issue is not whether THIS particular jury was careful, deliberated for four days, or anything else. The issue is that there are many juries who aren’t conscientious (e.g., the numerous documented examples of juries in the South who were perfectly happy to convince based on the race of the defendant). And the system needs to protect the people who face those juries.

    As for the sentence in this case, I’ve already told you the answer: I oppose the death penalty. I oppose it on two bases. One is practical (if we accept it, we accept a system in which innocent people will be killed). The other is philosophical (my views are consistent with Norm Pattis’).

    Noah: We simply don’t have a system that operates under a “well, if we KNOW they did it” sort of process. You offer several hypotheticals but in practice, they don’t work (e.g., 2 witnesses? 3?). Those lines can’t be effectively drawn.

    No one is saying coddle criminals. No one is saying sympathize with criminals. I don’t practice criminal law precisely because I wouldn’t be comfortable doing it from the defense standpoint. However, I deal with very good criminal defense lawyers as well as very good prosecutors. I also deal with very bad ones on both sides.

    I find that terms like “warehousing” or “mad dog” don’t advance the debate. The fact is that we DO have prisons and need them. We also have a whole range of offenses, whether financial (like Madoff) or violent (like the Cheshire murders) where people will, by necessity, incarcerated for Noah’s “50-60-70″ years. If we are going to make decisions based on the economics of how expensive it is to run prisons, we then will be deciding that non-violent crimes warrant death because it’s cheaper.

  58. Donna,
    What kind of law do you practice?

    Please enlighten out porch dwellers as to what type of lawyer you are.

  59. Greytdog, I really think your forming an opeinion on a person you are not qualified to talk about. You’ve formed an opinion based on your Enquirer subscription and your nightly Entertainment tonight. Your sitting on a pretty high horse judging others.

    Donna In the cases where we know who did the crime, where they were caught in the act, were at the scene of the crime, what have you, I see no reason that the American tax payer should have to put these people up for 50-60-70 years. It is a terrible burden on people who obey the laws. I also think there is something to be said for having tough punishment for violent crimes to detour people from committing them in the first place. There are a lot of people who would commit a crime if they think that can get out in 8-10 years. I have no sympathy for those who would do violent crimes.

  60. Donna I agree with you about wrongful convictions.

    And Donna as you so eloquently put it:

    “And your dismissal of him as an “ambulance chaser” is almost laughable. He’s actually considered a true scholar by judges and the real intellectual powers in the profession. Sorry you weren’t able to appreciate what he has to say but I wasn’t recommending him to you.”

    Oh no I could never match your intelligence,but I appreciate the fact that you are a lawyer. I have one for a DILaw. What is it they say about we can’t pick our kids spouses..?

    Obviously you have a passion for this man..the lawyer. I went to his web page and it just kind of made my skin crawl. Picking a lawyer should not be about picking the one with the best looking web page or the fact that he has been published so many times. Lawyers have screwed up at times as well. But not your guy Pattis, Right?

    But as to the sentence..?

    What say you? The jury took four days. Asked for many notes and about death penalty. I’m sure this jury did not take it lightly. And I think you are aware of that.

    Voir dire..? Oh yes I’ve experienced that while sitting on a case against my wife and hospital management and Corporation.
    Listening to the answers from my peers.. Oh god.
    Asking them what they watch on tv,,etc etc.Then because we had lawyers for the Doctor and a table, one for the Management, and one for the Corporation, there ended up being four tables and 8 lawyers. The plaintiff had one table and two lawyers. One lady during Voir dire said..”well they have to be guilty look how many lawyers they have.” So be it for jury selection.

    What say you about the sentence? It’s a pretty cut and dry case of murder. Unless you want to throw in the insane part?
    But I do finally..once and again agree that innocent people have been put to death. But I think sometimes as in this case and in the “Smart” case these individuals serve no importance to society.
    Your case your Honor.

  61. I rarely respond to Craig/Gregorio/Cregorio, but view this as an interesting and important issue and his comments emphasize why the Constitutional protections afforded criminal defendants are important: to prevent people from being killed or incarcerated because of emotional reactions and incomplete information such as those he expresses.

    I don’t need to reach the philosophical issues involved in the death penalty because I can simply stop with the facts that not all lawyers are competent, not all judges are knowledgeable about the law, and not all juries are fair or impartial. Oh, and not all police or other law enforcement personnel are thorough or honest.

    Voir dire…ah, voir dire. How much time did the lawyers get? Were the lawyers even allowed to speak since, in federal courts and in many states, the judge asks questions? What was the composition of the panel? Voir dire is an attempt to weed out people with an obvious bias or inability to make a decision–nothing more than that.

    Because of the unavoidable flaws in people, innocent people have been convicted and either executed or sentenced to death. And that alone is sufficient for me to oppose the death penalty.

    If, however, I proceed to the philosophical issues, I agree with Mr. Pattis. He has a number of other posts on the Cheshire case in which he sets out why.

    Norm Pattis is a wonderful lawyer and you obviously know nothing about his overall practice, but have formed the opinion that his “forte” is to defend “macabe (sic) cases.” And your dismissal of him as an “ambulance chaser” is almost laughable. He’s actually considered a true scholar by judges and the real intellectual powers in the profession. Sorry you weren’t able to appreciate what he has to say but I wasn’t recommending him to you. I think James may find some of his posts interesting and thought provoking.

    Noah–you, of course, are entitled to your opinion. However, in light of the number of wrongful convictions, I’d certainly hate to see people killed. Further, forcing people to work has a name: slavery. We aren’t permitted under our constitution to do that.

    For those of you who choose to read real quality writing and analysis, I commend Mr. Pattis’ blog to you.

    Apologies for the overly long post.

  62. Mad dogs are sometimes wrongfully accused.

    This makes for interesting justice. Whoops! Sorry, guess we were wrong. Go back to your pursuit of happiness.

  63. So Donna I take it your against capital punishment?

    We should just warehouse these people?

    Mad dogs are put down because they will harm again.

    I understand the idea of being psychologically insane, but are we to try and medicate them into and socialize them back into our world?

    Mr. Pattis is arguing his forte..and that is to defend the macabe cases and is nothing but appears to be an ambulance chaser.
    From your Norm Pattis web page:
    “I fully sympathize with Dr. Petit and those close to the family who want Hayes dead. I believe I too would want the destruction of those who harmed my loved ones. But this business of being hoodwinked into completing a private act of vengeance in the name of justice sickens. Yes, if there is to be a death penalty, this is the case in which to have it. But who said death was necessary or just? Those voices were kept off the jury. This was a death-qualified jury.
    Ironically, even now Mr. Hayes will not permitted to go silently into the night. Expect hearings, appeals, post-relief. Strangers will decide for him the timing of his death. He will sit now in a cell on suicide watch. The jury has sentenced him to die six times, but he cannot accept that verdict and agree to die. We must kill him against his will to enjoy the spectacle. So let’s torture him, shall we?, be keeping him alive for a decade or more as appeals run their course. This is spiteful sickness.”
    Again the dog is mad and is justified in being put down.

    As to the Jury. I’m sure there was an orderly process where both parties got to pick and choose jurors to sit. Voir Dire?

  64. Gregorio/Craig/whatever – if you’re going to comment on judicial cases, please make sure you at least get the names correct. It’s ELIZABETH SMART, not Jessica.

    James, the only cost of teenage pregnancy that Levi & Bristol have faced is which contract to sign. IMO, Bristol Palin is the poster mama for the oldest trade in the world – spreading your legs for monetary compensation. Abstinence is not in their vocabulary.

  65. I am a major proponent of the death penalty. Housing people for life without the possibility of parole is a major drain on our resources. IF you commit a violent crime and are sentenced to life, it should be a death sentence. At the very least 16 hour days working to pay your way.

  66. James, this is poolman. I have not been able to post as myself and if logged on to WordPress. I guess my stuff has been too controverial? I can only assume that is the case. I have even tried from a different computer. Welcome to the twilight zone….dodododo….

  67. Hi, James: As dreadful as the Connecticut case is, I don’t believe in “exceptions.” There’s an excellent blog by a lawyer in New Haven, Connecticut named Norm Pattis. He has a really interesting series of posts on the Steven Hayes case and I agree with his views. Check him out–I’ll be interested to hear your reaction.

  68. Thanks Gregario and Noah.

    Sandra R. and Sarah, you seem to be victims of monomania, “an inordinate or obsessive zeal for or interest in a single thing, idea, subject, or the like.”

    This is only my speculation based on your almost non- existent posts. In a battle of wits with almost any of the regulars, right or left, you come unarmed.

    Greytdog, yes, we know DWTS is also a popularity contest, and I agree my wife is a little rough on Bristol. She has been learning to dance better, and she seems to be trying hard. As No one’s puppet wrote, Bristol and Levi are just beginning to realize the cost of a celebrity teen pregnancy.

    Congratulations with the white shoes. Our daughter has no idea how lucky she is with more flexible fashion rules.

    I oppose the death penalty, but the Conn. case is an exception.

    inyereye, I like both of your posts. What else do you have?

  69. The following is a test of the conspiracy bullshit network. For the next 30 seconds we will conduct a test…

    beeeeeeeeeep, beeeeeeeeeep, beee……p…

    This has been a test of the conspiracy bullshit network. If there had been an actual conspiracy, you would have been instructed on how to think and what to do.

    Thank you. This concludes this test of the conspiracy bullshit network. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

  70. I think it’s time for another post…

  71. Well, let’s see if I can post a comment today.

    This is a test of the conspiracy broadcast network. For the next 30 seconds we will conduct a test. Beeepppppp……….

    …..In the case of an actual conspiracy, you will be given details and instructions on what to think. Thank you for your attention. Now back to our regularly scheduled reality in progress.

  72. Make that The “Jessica Smart” girl for nine months and is now having to relive the situation again in trial almost ten years later…That’s not justice.

  73. Noah..
    Speaking of passing Judgement.

    Having watched the news the past two days and hearing about the abduction and imprisonment of the creep who took the young Parker girl for nine months…
    and then the pervert/killer who was found guilty in Conn. for the killings of two children and a wife…

    Why wait for another year for these two criminals to get the justice they deserve?
    Are they going to ever be a worthwhile contributor to society?

    Its like everyone has seen them with “a gun on a street kill someone”..yet the government has to prove they are guilty by being sane..?

    In Texas and in the old days they would be put in the fast lane for the needle. Better yet..get a rope!

  74. If you think DWTS is all about talent, then really, you need to get some oxygen to those brain cells languishing upstairs.

    James, not sure I’d go so far as to call Bristol a “fat cow” – she actually seems typical of teenage girls – I’m still trying to understand how a fried-food belly surrounding a waistline is attractive or sexy. But fashion is fashion, comes and goes with each generation. At least we can wear white shoes after Labor Day now. . .

  75. Sandra and Sarah. James is in my opinion the most fair and open minded person on this board. I would like to see more than a one liner and state your beef with him. Arguments are how civilized people work through their differences. I encourage you to try to focus on the words of a persons point of view and not lower yourself to personally attacking someone you can’t know well enough to pass judgment.

  76. Poor Bristol and Levi, both of them have been pushed by a simple teen pregnancy into celebrity. And that doesn’t come without a cost, which they will learn soon enough.

  77. Sandra and Sarah are the ones to get a life.
    If you cannot add something productive rather than attack someone, then you are the one with issues.
    Amen..And Amen.

  78. James, glad to see you married your mental equal. Sandra R. is right. Sad. Get a life.

  79. I like Bristol because she is trying hard and knows she is in over her head. She knows her days on the show are numbered.

    My wife calls her a fat cow and won’t watch when she dances.

  80. Sandra R.,

    “Who cares if you disagree?
    You are not me

    So you dare to tell me who to be?
    Who died and made you king of anything?

    Sara Bareilles

    inyereye, I like your comparison. However both have uses besides their entertainment value.

    Politics keeps us from fighting with guns and knives in the streets. Auto racing is a good industry testing ground for fuel efficiency, auto safety construction and rescue techniques.

  81. Politics is like NASCAR, though the track is slower and more time is spent in the pits.

    The sponsors aren’t as obvious, but there is PLENTY of money involved. They are both noisy and emotional. Both involve going around in circles, vying for the lead, while trying to avoid smash-ups. Generally the most agile and experienced will be declared winner.

    They don’t help the planet and add nothing to improve the human condition. But we sure do cherish our sacred entertainment! :wink:

  82. Sure there is, Judith! ;)

  83. That is the true, some senior citizens are no fun at all, but that’s not because they shelved it, they never had it to begin with. Pretty sure, Helen keeps up with all the celebrity gossip, tonight she will be watching Bristol dance with her eye on Bristol’s waistline.

  84. Nothing worse than a young fuddy-duddy.

  85. Humor them Treadlow ……

  86. Treadlow, I assume you’re young, as you get older, you will realize, at least I hope so, one’s sense of humor only gets better with age. Who cares who wrote it or how old they are!

  87. I can’t believe you sheep still believe this blog is actually written by 80 year old women.

    Too funny.

  88. Amazing how the most offensive are the last to recognize themselves.

  89. Okay!!! For all those who think this blogsite is inexcusable due to liberals in its debate, I triple dog dare you to clicky on this linky
    and enjoy yourselves.

  90. You ladies are what makes this country great. Thanks.

  91. Politics is like NASCAR, though the track is slower and much more time is spent in the pits. The sponsors aren’t always as obvious, but there is PLENTY of money involved.

    It is all about going in circles while making plenty of noise, trying to stay in the lead and avoiding a smash-up. Usually the most agile and experienced come out on top.

    Both add nothing of value to the planet or the human condition. Oh, but we do relish our sacred avenues of entertainment. :wink:

  92. James, you are very sad. Get a life.

  93. Amen, PFessor53.

  94. One other thing, No ones’ puppet, my occupation is atypical. Even when we were so poor, I repaired my boots with duct tape because we couldn’t afford new ones, I had to pay attention to events in countries like Brazil, Russia, or our own government. World weather trends and monetary policies were important because we needed to know how to market our grain.

    Right now, my major concern is that Danny Hamlin has taken a slight points lead from Jimmie Johnson. I think like the Republicans, he has the momentum now, but Johnson, like the Democrats is determined.

    Jeff Burton, spun Jeff Gordon into the wall and destroyed his car. Burton was caught too, and his car was badly damaged. Gordon started a fist fight, and the two road warriors ended up fighting in the same ambulance–rather like what both houses of Congress may do next year.

    I like your attitude. I only wish you were a NASCAR fan.

  95. No one’s puppet, I have a good memory of the hard times too, and agree we are lucky to be where we are. I agree we shouldn’t take these political discussions too seriously. They are more like a video or board game. But there has been a change.

    People, even some who barely make ends meet are now paying attention. Omaha, voters, for instance, cared little about political events until they learned their leaders had betrayed the city to the profit of police and fire fighters’ unions.

    Like the sixties’ anti-war movement, the Tea Parties are a manifestation of people’s beginning to pay attention. Counter and anti-war folks, also connecedt their families’ welfare with current events. For all of their noise and flash, both groups are minorities. As you write, many people still worry about other things than politics.

  96. anon -

    “But I am so sick and tired of the handful of cheap, bottom feeders that have co-opted the site”

    Perhaps in the past, but M&H is changing now – for the better I believe.

    “that I have decided to stop coming here.”

    One shouldn’t give up because of bigots who – in the words of Twain – “can’t change their minds and won’t change the subject.” That’s all in the past; there now are a variety of views – some even expressed politely – that were never seen before, and they give a new vitality to a site that had become nothing but a giant circle-jerk of mutual back-patting, if you will forgive the mixed metaphor.

    “Like parasites, they have sucked the life and vitality out of the site and many of the regular posters have fled elsewhere.”

    ‘Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman.’ – Louis D. Brandeis – - – - – if the bright light of free discourse hurts one’s eyes or one can’t tolerate other points of view, perhaps that person *should* be elsewhere. I have been busy getting ready for winter and repairing lightning damage (from August!) and haven’t visited M&H lately, but when I am able to visit, I enjoy seeing the many thoughtful posts from all points of view.

    Chill out. Enjoy the chaos. Wonderful things happen when the thought police are on the run.

  97. I’ve been lurking around here for a couple of years. The subject matter of the posts is largely irrelevant to me, as a European, and an ex-pat at that, but the wit of each entry, as well as the humour (deliberate or otherwise) of the running commentary, make it always a rewarding read. Thanks. It’s good to see the insider views on things, when the perspective of the rest of the world is the default setting.

  98. By: Mrs. Howard Lambowski on November 7, 2010
    at 6:52 PM

    Mrs L. I’ve been a fan of Margaret & Helen since they first came on line pretty close to three and a half years ago and they are one funny pair. But I am so sick and tired of the handful of cheap, bottom feeders that have co-opted the site that I have decided to stop coming here. Like parasites, they have sucked the life and vitality out of the site and many of the regular posters have fled elsewhere.

  99. “Americans have the attention span of a gnat.” That is an insult to gnats everywhere and I will be filing a complaint with PETA at my earliest convenience.

  100. I come here to read Margaret and Helen for the humor, I find it destressing, I stay to read the comments, in the past it blew my mind, but no more. I don’t have to fix the world, the nation, I don’t need to be right. So I have made up my mind accept everyone, laugh off what I consider to be weird comments and just accept the fact everyone has their own perspective, even if I disagree. I can only change myself, so I did.

  101. James, you and I, and most of the rest of the folks here, have a safety cushion and the leisure time to stress over politics, but we aren’t the majority. The average working man or woman doesn’t give a damn which side of head their represenatives part their hair. What they do care about is their families’ welfare, I’ve been there and I remember it well.

  102. This is the funniest blog I have ever read. Ever. You two Ladies are just an absolute scream. I have spent better of the day reading the past blogs and have had one incredible laugh after another. Just brilliant!

    Would never bother with reading all the comments posted here. A quick scan and it shows just the usual bickering of left and right. Life is too short for that nonsense.

    I will stay a loyal Margaret & Helen Fan!

  103. I cannot get enough of you guys. Love it!!!

  104. “And that is probably the best thing about our system of government. Time is on our side.”

    Hear, hear Helen!

  105. Auntie Jean, well said! And NOP, remember the last two years of Bush’s presidency when the democrats controlled the house? The right was using the argument during the last presidential campaign that the democrats were in control and accomplished nothing. So I second you in saying that the electorate has shown its impatience time and time again; therefore, the right better get to work and turn everything around before 2012 comes around. Hee! Hee! Hee!

  106. Thank you Phyllis in Iowa, and now on to our next caller.
    Go ahead Bozley I don’t think you were finished.
    Welcome to the porch Bozley.
    The porch is here for all to pontificate.
    So let her rip..
    What you have to understand is, that when the shrews come after you, then you have to worry.

  107. Love your blog. I check it periodically for new posts and share them regularly with my friends on Facebook. I only wish they came daily. Your spin on the politics of the day always puts a smile on my face when most other sources spew gloom and doom.

    Yes, the country just got trampled, including the folks who voted for it. I’m an especially proud Vermonter right now. If only we were a bellwether for the rest of the nation.

  108. How did you get so smart No one’s Puppet? Were you born that way, or did it come with time. Obviously, I agree with you.

    I face more important things than politics. We have machinery to tarp and a roof to fix. Then NASCAR!

  109. As Democrats, Republicans, and others, we should understand this is a transitional period and we should show some patience before and immediately after the new Congress is seated. That said, I’m marginally hopeful, that all of the members realize, it is not what you say no to this time, it is what they do to improve everyday lives for the people. And Americans are impatient, so they better get off their duffs from day one on and produce change for the better. Beyond that, well there is no beyond that.

  110. Alaskapi, I’m glad you mentioned redistricting. As you wrote, it is a big deal with lasting repercussions. I am hopeful for our part of Iowa. Republicans retook the House, and especially in western Iowa Republicans tend to be on the rural side of the rural urban conflict. I hope that will be true here and in other states no matter which party is in control.

    I’ve heard the same theory that Obama won because his centerpiece, health care legislation was passed. If so, it may be a Pyhric victory because redistricting will give the next election an advantage to Republicans. Given the number of Democratic Senators up for re election next time, Democrats risk losing more power and maybe control there.

    As we know states have brought suit against parts of the health insurance law, and litigation may work its way to the Supreme Court. Republican victories may send up more law suits.

    Tea Party winners, especially want to gut parts of the law by denying funding or with outright removal. Their ultimate goal is to send something to the White House for Obama to veto. If voters are still angry about unemployment, the economy, and health care, Tea Party people will use the veto as a campaign issue.

    Ironically AARP which supported the bill announced they are raising insurance rates for many of their employees in part because of the health insurance legislation. Some of the generous insurance plans would reach a taxing threshold, and they want to lower the value to avoid the tax.

    The law takes money from Medicare to make it look less expensive than it is. The claim is the $450,000,000 or so will not be missed because it will be the result of making the system more efficient, but I doubt it.

    McDonalds, a teachers union, and a number of other corporations will receive wavers to protect them from higher insurance costs partly associated with the health insurance law. If such things continue public animous toward the law may still survive in two years.

    No one knows what the Tea Party reps will actually do. I am only speculating. I also think at least some of the law will remain.

    Bozly84 thanks for clarifying. Your posts are a challenge to read, and we often disagree, but I hope you keep posting, even after I am long gone.

    Phyllis, if you’re writing about me, you are wrong. I am quite happy right now, and I have a proven record of dishing it out and taking it. I agree, some angry people post at times. Democrats have a right to be angry right now.

  111. After trolling through 300+ posts I just gotta say that its always the angry conservatives that bogart blogs. What is wrong with you people? How come you can dish it out out and yet you can’t t take it? Why do you think I need or want your brand of political salvation? Get your own blog!

  112. and proud of it Auntie Jean.. ;-)

    PSU fanned!

  113. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Oh yes, palinshutup, the Democrats did win the most important battle of 2010, maybe of the decade. The Health Care Bill.

    One of the first things the GOP wants to do now that they have ahem! control of the House, is repeal the Health Care Bill and of course either abolish or privatize Medicare and Medicaid. In its arrogant and boastful rhetoric, the GOP has conveniently forgotten that the Democrats still have control of the Senate and President Obama has a veto pen.

    Now for those of you conservatives here who are generally of a mindset only about the bottom line, let me say, I am quite concerned about the budget deficit and national debt also. Any thinking person of any political stripe is too.

    A few weeks ago I had successful and uneventful surgery to remove a cataract. It was so much fun, I’m going to have the other one ‘fixed’ in a couple more weeks.

    Please let me lay out my point of view for you as clearly as I can. We have contributed to FICA and have had Medicare since 1965 when it was enacted by Congress and President Lyndon Johnson. We also have supplemental insurance we have paid into for that length of time. You do the math. The exact amounts, I don’t know. No doubt, somewhere in Washington, buried under layers of bureaucrats as well as the supplemental private sector insurance employees, there must be tallies of exactly how much.

    I don’t know if the supplemental insurance company will try to deny coverage for my cataracts on the basis of pre-existing conditions since I was born with two eyes. It is well known that if people live long enough, they can be prone to cataracts. I know Medicare will not. deny coverage.

    All things considered, we have relatively good health and have not tapped into Medicare or supplemental to an excessive extent. However, if there is anyone who is in urgent need of medical intervention, he/she is more than welcome to share in our part of those kitties.

    In light of the Wall Street meltdown on the Bush Administration’s watch, our carefully managed portfolio dropped well over 50% in the current recession. Of course, if the conservatives had had their way and privatized it, Medicare would certainly have dropped equally or more.

    When we receive the statements from Medicare and supplemental as well as how much will be left over for us to pay, I will carefully itemize and record it here for those of you who are distinguished economists and dearly love long lists of impersonal numbers. I know you can hardly wait!

    In order to support and make points for your political ideology, please ask yourselves whether you can begrudge me my vision in the event we did not have Medicare or supplemental and were unable to pay for the surgery. I, for one, could not deny that to anyone else. But then again, I am a Liberal, Left-Wing, Bleeding Heart, Progressive, Feminazi.

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  114. Helen, this one is for you.

    Democrats didn’t lose the battle of 2010. They won it.


    ‘It’s funny, in a twisted way, to read all the post-election complaints that Democrats lost because they thought only of themselves. Even the chief operating officer of the party’s leading think tank, the Center for American Progress, says Obama failed to convince Americans “that he knows their jobs are as important as his.” That’s too bad, because Obama, Pelosi, and their congressional allies proved just the opposite. They risked their jobs—and in many cases lost them—to pass the health care bill. The elections were a painful defeat, and you can argue that the bill was misguided. But Democrats didn’t lose the most important battle of 2010. They won it.’

  115. “It never pays to underestimate the American right. In the past two years of opposition, it has rediscovered one great strength, a belief in small government that George Bush foolishly shed. But this is clouded by three other things: fury, an absence of ideas and more than a little craziness.”

    I agree with the commentator who wrote:

    ‘Obama acted extremely wisely, from his point of view. Given the economic circumstances he inherited, he knew that no matter what, he’d only have control of both houses of Congress for the first two years of his presidency. Two years only to push through history making legislative changes. He grabbed that chance.’


  116. Hi Congenial Gang,

    A rainy Saturday here, but we need it so I’m glad. This morning just for old times’ sake I turned on the TV to see what’s going on in the world while I did laundry. All over the dial, the post-mortem continues. The mid-term election toxicology report probably won’t be in for months, maybe years.

    But…….a whole bunch of has-beens were trotting out – Giuliani, Gingrich, Romney, Huckabee and even Jeb to continue the Medieval Bush Dynasty. It was sort of like the has-beens here at M&H’s – James, Craig/et al., pfessor – and me. Of course there are a few new wanna-bes I can’t remember to name.

    Ah well, I was washing some of the same clothes I have been washing every week for years. So what else new?

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  117. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Bozly84, just like everyone else, you can offer any comments you like, any way you like. Often, you have nuggets of wisdom. Keep ‘em comin’!

    Alaskapi, YES! I too am worried about re-districting. I brought that up last week I think and have more to say about it later. Gerrymandering is up for grabs in plenty of states now and will effect the electorate – and the country – for easily, the next ten years. Lets get ourselves informed on the subject so we can keep it honest.

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  118. adding to, thanks for that Poolman…seems so on the mark ,unfortunately there will remain those who can NOT or just WILL not grasp much no matter how plain, much will be far too obtuse and outside their realm of comprehensionals !! It’s one of those SoBeIts in life/etc. Enjoy MANY of your inputs as well as so many others here(lol, even those that input what they consider oppositionals or etc/etc….relevant in that it helps to gain further “understanding–more like comprehension of where/how /etc they comig from/etc. No need to agree with ANY but all need to utilize some basic “comprehension” skills , it helps to “prepare” us for whatever is/will be coming and perhaps too, learn , learn better,learn a better way to forge ahead, even briung others along.caiozers

  119. James , not against PROFIT..would dare say ALL seek such –it is thou that some are far more adept as well as some are far too greedy and willing to take advantage no matter the ACTUAL costs as long as they themselves profit.
    As to being a leftista–yeah, am in some things and others rather more conservative but with some degree of compassion and feel first rule is rather golden (the do untoothers as you would have done/etc along with DO NO EVIL for base civilities as well !!)

    and ldsrr91, gbo …you wasted effort/time counting the WORDS ? Better use of effort would have simly grabbed a quick gisting and scrolled when not to your liking.
    Yeah, ranting rambles while on the go with small screen,,,as to the caps,lol, consider it “inflected emphasis..when actually speaking one can merely intone it!!
    LOL and true GBO over the retortings…Nice that H & M have provided such a congenial porch and the pie offerings , well some truly scrumtuous and quite delish savorings !!!
    Good weekending to all, ours has been rather pleasant if not actually downright great for the very most part and figure such will continue.

  120. Yes DoverSoul, excellent and upsetting.
    here’s one of the links Mr Lauesen provides.


    Also- how many of you are paying attention to redistricting in your state?
    These mid terms have filled your state offices with those who will hammer out the plans.
    Here we have a few districts which are bigger than many of the eastern states and lost a bid to increase representative numbers so we could carve them up into managable sizes for WHOEVER was to represent the folks in each.
    Urban v rural is a problem all across America.
    What is going on in your state?

  121. Excellent post from the Mudflats:


  122. More wisdom from mr. Fish.

    “… that nothing, by mere virtue of its literal physicality, is wholly self-defining and nothing can happen in the world that cannot be skewed by interpretation and made into something else.”

  123. Jokes and sarcasm, pertinence and irrelevance, along with any other *manner* of communication, are subject to the comprehension and interpretation of those toward whom they are addressed. And common sense is neither common nor necessarily sensical.

  124. Bozly84 … 670 words for a comment?

    Man – Man. Who needs that.


  125. Bozly84 made a couple of good points, though I agree his writing is hard to follow. I agree, as he/she writes that the majority of Americans are centrists, but I think he/she mistakenly thinks the electorate which matches his/her beliefs is the center when Bozly84, including some posting here are somewhere in leftist land.

    I agree the Republicans were adrift until the Tea Parties energized them and Republicans used them to their own advantage. Now that they have won, some party members are having second thoughts.

    His/her attitude toward profits is misplaced. Profits are like food. Organizms and businesses cannot survive without either. The reason d’ etra of a business is to make money. It must maximize profits or it will die.

    I learned that first hand when our farm business lost five figures in a single year. Making six figures was much better.

  126. Bozley,
    Man your off your meds again.
    That manic stuff needs to be kept under control.
    Going back and forth to caps and the need for the ramblings must mean the voices are talkin to you a lot.

  127. I hope Jean has a sense of humor. That was a very small joke, not a personal attack.

  128. Thanks for the earlier complement, Noah. I think this message board needs you here.

    Jean’s being from Venus solves a mystery. Our son has a computer related degree. In 2003, he was fresh out of college in San Jose with no jobs to be found. Computer people were taking real estate courses.

    Our son’s first job was as a temp at Radio Shack for two weeks around Christmas. He was hired to program cell phones for a sales promotion, but times were so hard, only one customer asked about cell phones during that time. Then, a man walked in.

    He seemed interested until they told him Friends and Family didn’t include Venus. The man became beligerent because Venus was his main reason for buying a cell phone. Then, he left.

    Our son thought he was crazy. Now, we know the truth. He was part of Jean’s cell phone network.

  129. I tried really hard to pull apart and understand what you were saying Bozly84 but with all the lower/upper case switches, articulation of sounds and lack of paragraphs I found myself unable to pull enough coherent sentences together to get what you were trying to day, even the paragraph about me didn’t make much sense. Try just straight forward complete sentences without the flair.

  130. I’ll pass on the marriage but I’ll raise you a firm hand shake (:>

  131. Morning Congenial Gang,

    The jig is up! Craig/anonymous/multiple personality/Gregorio has exposed me! I am from an alien state. My Colorado birth certificate is a fake. (Orly Ditz will be after me!)

    I am actually from Venus. Everybody knows that men are from Mars and women are from Venus. I was dropped off by a UFO at Roswell, NM in 1954, which is as close to Texas as I ever got. I made up the story about the years I lived in Houston. Further, my skin color is green. Kermit the Frog is a distant relative.

    Now all of you know the FACTS of my origins and the TRUTH.

    Aloha. Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  132. Noah said -

    “Republicans got it right on immigration. Democrats got it right on abortion. Neither side got it right on the war on drugs. The Republicans got it wrong with the global warming. The Democrats got it wrong with redistribution of wealth and entitlements. Both sides have issues with implementation. None of these decisions were based on me being in one party or another. They were based on me doing some research, and using my God given common sense to come up for myself what I deemed to be right or wrong.”

    Will you marry me?

  133. To Alive andWell.(November 6, 2010 at 12:46 AM.Extremely observant posting and ON THE MARK and , sigh, little “relief” fro such in sight as “they” figure the “plan” of NO and sheer OBSTRUCTIONISMATICALS “WORKED” so well for them since the O inauguration, such WILL continue with PERHAPS some BRIEF elements of “SEEMING” moderation but IT WILL CONTINUE in their ranks and with their elected representatives who are BUT intent in regaining FULL CONTROL no matter if such to the detriment of the nation and its citizenry or NOT…The Dems AND TRUE Independents are going to NEED to DECIDE whether they like it or any of the whateverings and just WHERE and WHO DOES HAVE “their”(the citizenry/Nations) BEST interests at /in their hearts/efforts/etc and become far more savvy as well as BE SEEN TO BE MORE THAN READY to FIGHT for US !! It WOULD be great if “IT”–factual discussions and discernment’s were INDEED done so CIVALLY but enough IS ENOUGH with the seemingly endless attempts to encourage ALL OUT FULL THROTTLE COMPROMISES at the expense of what TRULY IS for the nations best interests and the well being of its citizenry. In truth, in this nation, the true majority of US are CENTRISTS and we “DOUBLE DIP” quite often/regularly depending on ISSUES of great and minor concerns…WE ARE NOT EXTREME and are regularly IGNORRED as if we do NOT actually truly exist and WE ARE FED UP with the LOT OF ‘em for sure. WE have common sense , common concerns as well and we have rather common civility and basic respect for those we disagree with more often than not…(thou THAT is getting in shorter supply as we keep seeing the EXTREMES center staged and spotlighted while WE are continued to be ignored !!!)
    So MUCH nonsense get regularly touted and spouted as aIF it represents US or OUR positions and that is WEARISOME and thensome …So much NOISE and WE get drowned out . THAT is a true turnoff and a true concern. Here,WOULD have been able to offer some grounded “respect for the Tparty movement but that movemet was co-opted and recrafted to serve the far more extreme elements and as such a move served the GOP party which was rather DOWN AND OUT of offices/power/empowermemting privilidges they shrewdly grasped onto the Tparty opportunity and MOST regrettably , seemingly without DUE CONSCIENCE of just where it COULD/WOULD lead and whether TRULY GOOD for the NATION or its people all the while wrapping themselves in a charade of patriotismaticals and etc while appealing to the base “base” mentalities using (imagined) fears and stoking such as they were assumed to serve their reinstallment into various positions that WILL BE DECIDING so MUCH that WILL BE effecting us ALL today and long into the tomorrows and unfortunately, seeming to continue such path rather unfettered as well as WELL FUNDED( and OMNOUSLY ANONOMOUSLY) all the while WE , the true majority continue to BE told they are acting in OUR best interests when so unashamedly NOT when FACTS are utilized…WE have become the designated ACCEPTABLE COLLATERAL DAMAGEEs …and THAT is TRAGIC for US and our future generations and NATION as a whole for we have been sold out and manipulated into too much that works AGAINST us and the nation all in the quest for “raptious profiteering” for he who has the gold is figured to RULE over all others. ANYTHING FOR Q PROFIT and all else , obviously, be damned–such are the times we are living and it IS repugnant to say the very least.
    (a btw. re-reading Noah….there is a “familiarity” theme reminiscent of another….any others sniff/catch as well? A compassionate, conservative “DEM” inclination does NOT seem to BE the true case….just an observation as a former stalwarted goperite/gop inclined heritage here..Noahs self tagging seems to ring more hollow each passing, “articulation”….at least is done so “civally”….lol, perhaps just “testing”….)

  134. Greytdog..and your point is?
    Go play in the kitchen..
    I have not picked a fight with you so whats up?

  135. Here’s a good informative podcast for all you history buffs that want the facts about our foreign policy without the spin that the media is giving, either liberal or otherwise. Enjoy.

  136. Reality is fantasy. Right is left. Up is down. Freedom is slavery. Evil is good. Clarity is chaos. I think we’re all living a life of illusion.

  137. I loves me some Jefferson.

    Here is his speech from the first executive oath of office ever taken in the new federal city in the new Senate Chamber. It was tough times then, just as it is now. Apparently however, the congress had integrity then…

    …”To you, then, gentlemen, who are charged with the sovereign functions of legislation, and to those associated with you, I look with encouragement for that guidance and support which may enable us to steer with safety the vessel in which we are all embarked amidst the conflicting elements of a troubled world…
    “…may that Infinite Power which rules the destinies of the universe lead our councils to what is best, and give them a favorable issue for your peace and prosperity.”

  138. Can someone please block Tex what’s his face from posting any more comments? They are just too boring for words. Criminally boring. Just no sense of humor or ounce of cleverness at all.

    (Really, Tex, you don’t need to respond to this comment. Whatever unimaginative insults you throw my way will just be boring. The most creative thing you can possibly do is just ignore me.)

  139. Thanks again for the personal attacks poolman and again sidestepping and being an apologist, quite possibly on the Obama payroll. Sine on your own you cannot or will not address any of the issues pertinent to what I post, and since every post is laced with personal attacks I will discontinue responding to your posts until you can respond in a intellectually honest manor. A clear indicator if self doubt and ignorance is when you go personally after someone rather than their argument. I hope to see you one day on the moral high ground. /end rant.

    Again I am what I think is a very rare breed, a Conservative Democrat. Like my Grandmother always said, you have to take the good with the bad. I see almost no one but James offering up the good and the bad with who they chose to affiliate themselves with. Because of my beliefs I cannot call myself a Democrat or a Republican, or a Liberal or a Conservative completely. But the flip side of every coin does make valid points and I am big enough, or maybe not brainwashed enough, to be able to admit that.

    Republicans got it right on immigration. Democrats got it right on abortion. Neither side got it right on the war on drugs. The Republicans got it wrong with the global warming. The Democrats got it wrong with redistribution of wealth and entitlements. Both sides have issues with implementation. None of these decisions were based on me being in one party or another. They were based on me doing some research, and using my God given common sense to come up for myself what I deemed to be right or wrong.

    Where I take issue with a lot of Liberals, Progressives and Democrats is their inability to look at both sides of the coin honestly. I was listening to a Hispanic Liberal/Progressivge talk show on the way home from a meeting this morning. They were laying into the Republicans hard core, predicting they were going to be their evil selves and not compromise on anything and instead lock up the congress with meaningless hearings. They then took soundbites out of context showing various Republicans saying the words “no compromise” I know for a fact one of the sound bites had nothing to do with the topic they were discussing. Not 10 minutes later, the conversation switched to talking about Obama ans his speach after the Republican victory and how he hoped to be able to come together and work with the Republicans to do the will of the people. These radio show hosts were upset with Obama because he was going to..now catch this… Compromise with the Republicans. How hypocritical is that. I find that all to often Liberals/Progrreessives/Democrats have what I like to call situational ethics. And rightly so I have a problem with this. It is right or its wrong. The moment you start saying it is right for this group of people but not for this group, I think you are on moral and ethical shaky ground.

    On the flip side of the coin. Sean Hanity was doing his radio talk show. This was during the election 2 years ago. For a week he was quoting a democrat running and misquoted his soundbite, claiming that the democrat was saying one thing, ie calling white people a “cracker”, and it turned out that he was saying something else entirely. Sean took it upon himself to invite the Democrat candidate to his show, 2 days before voting was to take place, and gave him 30 minutes of free time on his sown to promote his campaign, and to publicly apologize to the candidate for misquoting him.

    I listen to at least 20+ hours a week of AM radio shows both Liberal and Conservative and I have never seen a Liberal station do anything close to this. Sean Hannity acted with intellectual honesty and integrity and I commend him for it. We should all do the same.

  140. Thanks, delurkergirl & JeanΔ ¥ – I always enjoy your posts too! :-)

    As for Texans – one of my grandmothers was born there in the late 1900s. She would have loved Helen as well she loved the late greats: Molly Ivins (even though she was born in CA, she was raised in TX) and Ann Richards.

  141. Folks, if you get down with the pigs you get dirty, please learn to ignore. Save your sanity! Don’t go even go there!

  142. Jeez Craig your ignorance really does translate into arrogance doesn’t it? Did you fail American History in elementary school?

  143. *Your*

    your rite
    you’re right
    right you are

  144. “Get used to seeing this post that shows the FACTS about Bush and Obama.” – Noah

    Actually if you do a google search of your post it shows up on literally hundreds of sites, verbatim. You simply did a cut and paste from a post on another site. Like plenty others that have come and gone before you, this shows an obvious lack of originality and integrity. Democrat? :roll: Right.

  145. Noah, the FACTS are NOT disputed. However, when shown on a graph give a clear picture of a real scenerio. I’m not defending Obama or dems or Clinton, or Frank or Dodd.

    The FACT check site I LINKED contained the Clinton information. Like looking at a still shot of a horse race while still in progress, your facts DO NOT give a clear picture of the race or outcome.

    You’re comprehension skills really cause me to question your previously stated educational accomplishments. I guess they were not in economics or English, however.

  146. He also wrote “…Cantor will be pointing a bayonet. It won’t be in Boehner’s back, at least not yet.”

  147. Ignoramus quoted this on Tiger Hawk’s blog.
    MSNBC will have a new owner by year’s end–Comcast. “Expect a lot of shake-ups in all arms of NBC News because of this.” Last week’s election made it clear Olbermann’s ratings would “only continue to decline.”

    My paranoid side says GE tolerated Olbermann in order to suck up to Obama–this isn’t as crazy as its been reported that Immelt told his NBC news heads to support Obama. Immelt had a private dinner with all of them way back. Immelt wants to sell a lot of windmills.”

    “Chris Mathews is either in denial or too stupid to understand this. Rachel Maddow gets it, which is why she’s gotten so nervous/strident in tone lately.

    The suites at MSNBC figured it was better to fire Olbermann for cause rather than over his politics/ratings. Violating a waive-able corporate policy is a better basis for this than claiming that he fiddled his expenses or that he diddled a summer intern.”

    I don’t know if this is true or not, but time will tell.

  148. Other examples of press bias were how the New York Times and other news sellers treated an alleged affair between McCain and a lobbyist and John Edwards’ real affair. Reporters virtually ignored Obama’s past, including the Gazebo to Nowhere while practically sorting through the Palin’s trash. They also ignored the Rev Wright for quite a while.

    I don’t know how many times Bush warned about Fannie and Freddie, but I heard him with my own ears a few times. At least one was in a state of the union speech. A group of Republican Senators including Sen. McCain wrote and signed a letter to the Congressional leadership which warned of the dangers of supporting the housing bubble.

    To be fair, the housing fiasco, though started and encouraged by Democrats benefited Republicans too. One could argue some of the Republican opposition was intended as political cover in case of a crash. The fact remains, Republicans, more than Democrats half-heartedly warned about future dangers.

    Alive and Well, re- read some of the posts. Some of the liberals’ themes appear angry and hurt to me, as they should. Their side lost, and losing hurts.

    Speaking only for myself, I am happy, and I am playing nice.

  149. poolman, I had forgotten your response so I went back to read it. NOw I remember why I forgot it. Relevancy. The entire thrust of your argument was that Bush was responsible for all the bad things that happened after, and that Clinton was responsible for everything good that hammed during the Bush years. Again no personal responsibility for anything and nothign in what I wrote said anything about CLinton, it was Bush and Obama. And you also neglected to talk about anything at all Obama, omitted it entirely from your statement. So respectfully you side stepped took a jab then retreated.

    Get used to seeing this post that shows the FACTS about Bush and Obama. You may hide and pretend you don’t see it but the truth is the truth. You all pretend to be passionate as long as you agree or disagree and think you have the facts to back it up. When anyone on here shows facts that you cant dispute that sheds a true light you all get interestingly quiet.

  150. I find it quite interesting to see that all the humorous political satire which can be found on this blog is being written by Helen herself and by her supporters via their comments while all the nasty, bitter, and hateful snipes, gripes and swipes are being written by those who are addled with significantly more conservative, tea-tainted ideas and ideals. Even now after their many victories in this recent election, they just don’t know how to be happy and play nice. Their relentless drumbeat of hateful rhetoric continues unabated in spite of their recent widespread political successes. Surely paranoia must be playing a role in driving this ongoing antisocial behavior.

  151. “Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy, but no one was listening” – Noah, et al.

    “If you Google the phrase “Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy” you will get many hits with this phrase VERBATIM, but MarshaMarshaMarsha does not put it in quotes nor describe the source. As near as I can tell, it is taken from an open letter from GOP Representative Jeff Miller (Florida, 1st Dist). The assertioins made are not supported by any independent sources, and I’ve been unable to locate any. This has all the hallmarks of an organized GOP Internet propoganda campaign.”

  152. “Thank you, Dick Cheney, For Giving Me the Proper Words”

  153. What’s great is I don’t even live in Texas. They can’t get that right either…

    The question is, are they ever right about anything of importance? The can’t pick candidates well.

  154. “I wish to let the decent people of Texas know that the two ‘visitors’ from Texas here at M&H’s are NOT representative of the thousands upon thousands of your citizens who are intelligent, kind, thoughtful and well mannered. I’m sure, at best, these two are an overwhelming embarrassment to you.” Jean

    I take umbrage at your suggestion that you can define a Texan. You, who have chosen to live on a tiny south sea island and take great pride in your adopted but not native nation. You have not lived among us or traveled this great state of Texas and thus cannot define our values, morals and what we stand for. Look at an election map and see how we voted.
    You have painted with a broad brush a couple of visitors here with your tainted alien flair. You are better at your history lessons from the past where you live.
    Namaste..and Alahoahhooooeeee

  155. Noah, that’s the same post we picked apart after you posted it Oct 28 at 11:44am on the “Helen and Margaret’s Pledge to America” thread. Remember all the graphs? Nothing has changed.

  156. I found the information on Michele Malkin’s site. She quoted OpenSecrets.org who wrote that in 2008, 100% of MSNBC Cable ‘s donations went to Democrats and 99% of NBC’s donaitons went to Democrats.

    So far, in 2010, 100% of ABC News’s donations have gone to Democrats and CBS Corporation’s PAC has given $51,000 to Democrats.

    Those donations don’t necessarily translate to biased news reporting, but I have observed as much anti Republican bias on those networks as pro bias in Fox.

    Thanks Noah. I wish you would post that every day or so.

    I have Texas cousins in Austin who are nice ladies and gentlemen.

  157. Hi Congenial Gang,

    I wish to let the decent people of Texas know that the two ‘visitors’ from Texas here at M&H’s are NOT representative of the thousands upon thousands of your citizens who are intelligent, kind, thoughtful and well mannered. I’m sure, at best, these two are an overwhelming embarrassment to you.

    My experience in your fair state has been that by far, the vast majority of Texans are fine Southern Gentlemen and Ladies.

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  158. Another example of bias is the major networks delayed reporting success of the surge. I knew what was happening before they reported it because our niece and son in law were there.

  159. Since a lot of you still seem to have a Messiah complex with Obama, and of the 3 times I posted this not one of you could step up to the plate and challenge these fax. So I will post again. For those that claim that Bush is to blame for everything, riddle me this.

    January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress:

    At the time:

    1. The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
    2. The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
    3. The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
    4. George Bush’s Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!

    Remember the day…
    1. January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.

    2. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?

    3. Thank Congress for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment to this CRISIS by dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fiasco’s!
    (BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy, but no one was listening). <————–Don't miss this!

    And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA

    And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie?? OBAMA and the Democratic Congress

    So when someone tries to blame Bush…


    Bush may have been in the car, but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal and steering wheel they were driving. Set the record straight on Bush!

    Please do continue to tell us how the Democrats had nothing to do with our current financial fiasco and how Bush is totally to blame.

  160. Poolman. I read part of Journal list, so I know what side the news people were on. It is disbanded, but the news people haven’t suddenly become impartial.

    It doesn’t matter who owns the companies. Editors and reporters matter. I read that NBC, CBS and ABC gave much more money to Democrats than Republicans. I wish I could remember the site.

  161. I think Bush and Obama saved us from a major depression with their earlier TARP bailouts. I also think he correctly saved GM and Chrysler.

    Banks are not lending nor businesses spending because they don’t know what the future government policy will be. They also don’t know how many unsustainable loans remain in the system. They don’t want to be caught as they were with the housing bubble burst.

    The economy will eventually recover in spite or because of the government. As Palinshutup writes, we seem to be on a slow upswing.

    Obama gave too much authority to the Democratic leadership. They shut out the Republicans. Senator Chuck Grassely said on radio station KFAB that he and others had offered four changes to the health care bill which would have saved money. Democrats ignored them.

    I don’t think Obama was being too nice. He over promised a bad product and didn’t deliver.

  162. “The MSM is biased toward liberal. Some have admitted it, and examples are numerous. Consider Journolist.” – James

    This liberal media syndrome is a lie. It has been for some time. Even liberal journalists or hosts are censored in what can be broadcast. Journolist is disbanded. As to real MSM ownership information, this is good:


  163. I have many friends who did not vote for Obama, also friends who voted for him & are now complaining things are not happening as quickly as they assumed, even though he and all financial experts said over and over it would take a long time and we would have to tighten our belts.

    A repub friend of mine recently told me ‘The journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step’

    I told her ‘as long as the steps are going forward & not backwards’

  164. About jobs, from where I sit, I see the economy has flattened out and in my world that’s a hell of a lot better than a depression. Banks keeping the money they got and not lending, its not Obama’s fault and if he were to force them then he would be accused of putting government where it doesn’t belong.

    Companies are not hiring because they are afraid to but I’m not seeing as many businesses closing as I did in 07, 08 & 09.

    A lot of what I read reminds me of the cartoon of Bush telling us “I screwed you all. Thanks for blaming it on the black guy.”

    America just has a very short memory.

  165. If Obama failed, it was only as a politician. Certainly he is not a failure as a leader or CIC. I wish he had stomped the republicans and ramrodded his policies through congress while he had a chance. He was too nice and was trying to play diplomat. I’m sure he would modify his approach if the opportunity presented itself. But history cannot be altered, even though others can rewrite it. All statistics show he stopped the freefall and the economy is now growing. The job loss has been halted and reversed as unemployment is beginning to come down. Wall street and big business are showing profits, though it hasn’t trickled down. This has been a true testament to the falseness of the theory of trickle down economics.

    Money and discontent are the main reasons republicans won many seats.

    Let’s see where the republicans take this. If it ends up being just an effort in reversing course and wasting our dime, I, for one, will keep score.

  166. Palinshut, I agree with your last post. You complained about cooties. Now I have surrounded you. Har Har!!

  167. Bush and Obama are unfairly blamed and praised for the number of jobs in the United States. Politicians don’t create non- government jobs. Businesses, large and small do. All the government does is create an atmosphere conducive to economic development.

  168. Now the politicians in our state are whining and crying that we voted down all new taxes. If they had left the candy and soda tax alone we would have been more than happy with it but then they turned around and added organic foods and we said NO freaking way. Now they are scrambling to meet budget. Too bad so sad.

    If they want to meet budget all they have to do is reduce ear marks, for one. Collect years of fees owed by parking violators…the media recently uncovered Seattle has not collected millions in parking fees because of a loop hole? Give me a break.

    We turned down the one where anyone could sell alcohol, not because it would make it easier for kids to get alcohol (lets face it, when someone wants something they will get it) but because it is good for our state, we need the money. That simple.

  169. palinshutup, I agree, Obama has succeeded at passing most of his legislative program. That is his problem. He put most of his effort into the health care bill instead of helping improve the climate for more jobs.

    He succeeded in execution, but has failed in results.

    I agree with some of your comments about big business and government. Some Tea Party groups have also discussed holding a convention to take over the legislature.

  170. Poolman, back in my Janeane Garafalo days, several 9-11 truthers at the site supported Ron Paul because he was anti- war. He’s felt that way for years.

    The MSM is biased toward liberal. Some have admitted it, and examples are numerous. Consider Journolist.

    Yes, “money makes the world go ’round.”

  171. James, Obama has not failed, again, OBAMA has NOT failed that is a total lie. He has succeeded in passing almost everything he promised to pass.

    The problem is that he had to wheel and deal with the repubs in order to get his agenda through. As Ive said before; damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.

    Oh and I agree with poolman as usual:

    “Corporate $$$$$$$$$$$ buys the best propaganda campaign and usually the R assures the best return on their investment. It’s all about business and money and profits. Throw money at the one who can best grease the machinery of this beast that is USA,Inc. These puppets allow the corporations to write the laws benefitting them. The push is to further enable privatization of this whole country. This election was a big $$$$$$$ investment. They will expect a return.

    Fix it: We have to publicly fund elections and get corporations and moneyed influence out of government. Period.

    Dump the Fed. They are ripping us off. It isn’t even legal to exist.

    Small business isn’t the problem. Big business is. If you’re concerned with separation of church and state, you should look also at the issue of separation of business and state. How much of government is subcontracted and run by private enterprise? The MIL? Big problem.

    One potential way out is if the states will opt to hold a convention to take over the legislature. It takes 34 states to swing this. It has never been done in the history of the US, but it is our constitutional right.”

  172. palinshutup, read my posts. Its true I am happy, but I have not been gloating or writing diatribes. I’m being polite. You are not when you call me a troll.

    The simple truth is Obama failed. He concentrated on the health bill when he should have focused on jobs. He went about it the wrong way with most of the stimulus money going to “shovel ready jobs,” government workers and government subsidies which could not sustain themselves without even more tax money.

    He did little to help businesses find more customers, and the Democrat’s economic and tax ruminations gave conflicting signals. Thus, businesses and banks sat on their money and waited. Potential customers did the same.

    Anyone paying attention saw this coming a year and a half ago. This was not a surprise. The Democrats lost because they failed and they tried to push the country beyond its center-right orientation.

  173. “I can go a lot worse than that Poolman – consider that “lite” so I didn’t offend M&H’s sensibilities.” – Tex

    I wandered around zombie’s sites and visited the pajamas media zone and got a pretty good whiff. I know Ron Paul was at that Anti War rally too, and was curious why it wasn’t mentioned by boots on the ground. I guess that would only cloud the message and the upset the spin.

    That Klavan clip…
    Wow. Just wow. To still claim the MSM is liberal, and with such a straight face. Do people still buy into that? He sounds convinced and is very convincing. Black is the new grey and white is new black and grey is the new white. Palin is normal. She has got the puppet thingie down, though. She’s sure getting plenty of monetary blessing and press. Priceless! It’s a Pavlov thingie. I can almost feel it. Is that the tingle?

    I’m certain our founders would be rolling in their graves to see how misconstrewed their ideals are portrayed today. In much the same way the prophets of old condemned the nations for their evil deeds, Washington, Jefferson, et al. would condemn the capitalists for trading liberty and freedom for wealth. The enemy has always been the same. Communism wasn’t ever it. Islam wasn’t ever it. It is a lie. It’s a wholesale sell-out. Literally. The money changers are behind it all. That’s right, and like you prophetically said, “You can bank on that.”

    Money, money, money, mo-ney…♪ ♫

  174. Jan, Obama has not candy coated the economy taking a long time to recover BEFORE he was elected its just that some people hear what they want to hear.

    If the middle class thinks for one moment the repubs are on their side they’ve got another thing coming.

  175. Kelley in TX you are right. Not one single president was ever disrespected like this one has been, specially by congress and senators. Its outright disgusting.

    EWWW! I have to go wash off the cooties from posting next to Helen’s resident troll now. I knew it wouldnt be long before he came here gloating. I always scroll past his diatribes but I knew I felt something on my back LOL!!

  176. Thank you Helen. Its only a matter of time till they are knocking each other out a la Jerry Springer in the Senate and in Congress. At least my state had the sense to vote the right way.

    Its our own fault for getting lazy and not voting, we (all of us and our friends did) but I know the same amount of people who voted for the Presidential election did not vote, only a small percentage did. Statistics are saying the older folks like us went out to vote but a high percentage of young did not.

    I saw an interview with that nutjob Michele Bachman I swear I saw light behind her eyes there is truly absolutely nothing in there, nothing but empty space.

    Some of the folks I know are very unhappy Obama is not taking Bush’s administration for war crimes…I cant really blame them. Obama is damned if he does damned if he doesnt. That’s what he gets for playing friendly with the other side.

    Doversoul, one of my favorite signs from the Restore Sanity Rally said “3 WORDS THAT WILL SAVE THE ECONOMY GAY BRIDAL REGISTRY”

    If the trolls want people like that to run this country, ones who want to get into our uterus, ones who want to declare holy war on the world and dictate which God to pray to, keep making the rich richer at the expense of the middle class, continue sending jobs overseas, continue paying for all the people who do not have health insurance….I say GOOD LUCK WITH THAT biatches!

  177. Delurker gurl, the things you described done to Obama were done to Bush too. It is an American tradition. Lincoln was compared to an ape, and some of the founding fathers waged vicious attacks on each other.

    Tex is right. Obama did lie that day though a representative’s yelling it out in Congress was the wrong time and place. It would have worked at question day in Parliament.

    Lynnda, Kieth Olbermann was suspended because he broke the network’s rules. At least one conservative writer has defended him.

    No one’s puppet wrote “folks, could you just chill…?” None of us knows any more about the future political situation than we do about this winter.

    Look at the bright side. We are all still alive, we have food, shelter, lights, books, and the minds to understand them. Life right now is good. The future is only in our imaginations.

  178. Cute cartoon in this week’s New Yorker :)


  179. If you think that everyone on this site adheres to the philosophies expressed by the sponsors of these rallies, then I gave you much more credit than I should have for your intellect. I will need to reconsider.

    I can go a lot worse than that Poolman – consider that “lite” so I didn’t offend M&H’s sensibilities. And unlike the dunce from above having Obama called liar in public, which later proved true by the way, I can go a whole lot worse than that about what Bush experienced and what was said in public.

    Personally, I don’t give a damn whether you think I’m intellectual, or not. You and your ilk declared war ten years ago. Do I think you walk around naked and howl at the moon? Only Donna. Do I consider you of the same bankrupt mindset? You betcha. :wink:

    Consider this a small payback – and we are going to ratchet it up a notch as the election gets closer.

    You can bank on that.

  180. YOU got me

  181. The last one wasn’t me, you can tell by the icon.

    What’s funny is “Cregorio, Gregorio, Craig”.

    Silly wabbit.

  182. Whats funny..?

  183. damm this slow internet…

  184. OK, that’s funny.

  185. I need to take credit for the above anon.

  186. I have to take the credit for the above annon…

  187. I have to take credit for the above annon…

  188. Can’t we just get along for one evening.
    Its Friday and Donna is not even here.
    You can almost hear the sound of far off jet engines as he jets home to Indonesia.
    Gosh I wish he would stay. But,
    Its peaceful..the market is up this week..My IRA and your IRA’s…
    The Republicans are the House majority and Pelosi is in her place…
    Well that would be 6 feet under..but I digress.
    She does have an amazing plastic surgeon for an upper lip that never moves while she speaks.

    Is it not interesting, that when the newspapers and news media put up those brightly colored signs showing the United States and how much red shows up compared to blue?
    Amazing how so few people per square mile control so much of the rest of America.

  189. Tex,

    “Do you not own a mirror? Bush Hitler?”

    I enjoyed your link and thought I’d add the latest from the exact same site you recommended.


    I see herein the themes are identical, with what seems to be a much greater attendance and organization to this “movement” than the seven-year-old link you provided.

    If you think that everyone on this site adheres to the philosophies expressed by the sponsors of these rallies, then I gave you much more credit than I should have for your intellect. I will need to reconsider.

    I do personally like much of the imagery and message from the newest rally. Though some is obviously distasteful and exaggerated.

  190. To those who say GW Bush was treated just as badly as Obama is being treated, I say B.S.!! The proof is when the President of the United States, Barack Obama is speaking to school children about staying in school and working hard, parents actually kept their kids home from school or signed forms (that the school sent home with the kids) to keep their kids from watching it. Here in Texas, it was a BIG DEAL. Parents were whining to the school boards about not wanting their children to be “indoctrinated.” Indoctrinated to what? Staying in school and working hard?

    Also, no congressman ever shouted out “Liar” during a State of the Union prior to President Obama. (Even though Bush was blatantly lying about Iraq in his SOTU address).

    That sort of disrespect NEVER happened to Bush or any previous President.

  191. JeanΔ ¥ – I remember being in a movie theater that played only vintage films, to watch the earlier “Show Boat” with Paul Robeson.

    During “Can’t Help Lovin’ That Man”, Irene Dunne begins ‘shuffling’ in a very traditional (and stereotypical) fashion. The audience whispered in confusion, then suddenly gasped audibly and started talking louder as they realized what it was. Don’t know if you’ve ever seen anybody do it, but unless you’ve seen it before, your first reaction is going to be “WTH is that?!” Some booing ensued.

    It used to be fun seeing movies there. Casablanca got booed too. (Ilsa – “You have to decide for the both of us”). The audience reactions, as filtered through the very late 20th century, may have been a little over the top, but a good time was had by all. They also played Rocky Horror every Friday midnight and regularly had samurai movie theme weeks. DH dropped me off and picked me up – he’s so not a Japanese movie fan, except for Kurosawa. Good times.

    I’m looking forward to good times for the next two years. The TPers are going to be proposing one extreme, unconstitutional, wingnut piece of legislation after another. Of course, Obama will veto them all, but the Repubs are still going to have to decide each time whether to go on record voting with the crazies or with the Dems. Damned either way. Let the fun begin.

  192. MSNBC has suspended star anchor Keith Olbermann following the news that he had donated to three Democratic candidates this election cycle.

    “I became aware of Keith’s political contributions late last night. Mindful of NBC News policy and standards, I have suspended him indefinitely without pay,” MSNBC president Phil Griffin said in a statement

    One of the true voices for Liberals who call it like it is…….I am outraged. Is this the beginning of our new regime?

  193. Jan, as you sit in your cube, or living room, or wherever, try to remember this.

    48 hours ago, you didn’t just lose. You were annihilated. To give you some idea of just how complete the butt kicking, your precious Dimocratic party lost 50% more state seats that in the Republican Revolution of 1994.

    You were destroyed in one evening, and don’t even know it.

    But Obama does.

  194. You rubes going on about how poorly Mr. Obama has been treated, how it’s never been like this, blah blah blah must have really short memories.

    Do you not own a mirror? Bush Hitler?


  195. And yes we did Tex…your Republican party didn’t and it sounds like you are still bitter about it.

  196. Jan, were you one of the thousands of fawning rubes who peed in your pants at the megalomaniac, standing in front of Styrofoam Greek Columns? All Hail Caesar Obama! What kind of a clown believes he’s capable of “healing the earth?”

    You remember, don’t you? For old times sake…

    EPIC Failure – in every regard. The Emperor with no clothes, the malignant narcissist, the false messiah. America “acted stupidly.” Obama has been been weighed in the scales and found wanting. And now, there can be no doubt. :wink:

    Yes We CAN! Frogmarch Obama and his lackeys to the curb.

  197. Kelley, that was a good article and matches my sediment. I haven’t seen the same treatment on the same scale of any president in our past, despite what others have insinuated.

    Gregorio, that clip was great! LOL. I have always enjoyed Bill Cosby’s humor. We do have quite a communication issue even among English speakers.

  198. “What Broke Obama didn’t explain to you fully was that to arrive, he was going to crash the plane in the Disney World parking lot.

    Hope you had an enjoyable trip.”

    Tex I went to one of his many speeches and he didn’t candy coat it. He said it was going to take time for the economy to recover. It was going to take time for health care. He said it may not be done in 4 years, but we would be closer in 4 years. I am standing by him. He didn’t lie to us Americans and I believe that we will be closer in 4 years.

    How funny that Bush can spend billions OVERSEAS and yet Obama spends it in his OWN country to keep us Americans going and people are outraged. I don’t see the logic in that. We should always put our needs first and then help others…by helping ourselves we will get stronger to help others.

  199. For those of you who want to understand the South.


  200. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Here is a thought-provoking link on the current attitudes toward who is elite and who isn’t. Please check it out.


    To take a little break, last evening we stumbled onto the BEST old movie on the Turner Classic Movie channel. People of an ahem! certain age like Judith and me really love this one. It is “Show Boat”, the musical with Cathryn Grayson, Howard Keel, Ava Gardner and Joe E. Brown. Remember numbers like “Ole Man River” and “Make Believe”?

    I saw it on the stage several times long, long ago. It deals with the terrible subject of ‘miscegenation’. It just goes to show you how long we have been grappling not very well with the subject.

    You might want to check the movie out on Netfliks or something.

    I am reminded of something I read in my latest book. “What justifies the label ‘barbarian’ or constitutes a convincing claim to civilization?”

    It’s often hard to tell, isn’t it.

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  201. Thanks so much for sharing that, Kelly. I don’t think I’ve seen presidents in my lifetime that were hanged in effigy, mocked in blackface, portrayed as Hitler, or called a terrorist. Certainly not at the rate President Obama has.

  202. That’s right Kelley. Real respectful.

    You goose steppers from the Left were so respectful of George Bush, you made movies of him being assassinated – while he was still in office. Just about the same respect you demonstrated with the military when you referred to them as ‘mercenaries’.

    Face it Libs. Obama and his cross-eyed co-pilots Pelosi and Reid promised you a trip to Disney Word. And you got on board, and sang songs when George Bush departed of “HEY HEY HEY HEY! Good bye!” – just like Obama’s inauguration orgy.

    What Broke Obama didn’t explain to you fully was that to arrive, he was going to crash the plane in the Disney World parking lot.

    Hope you had an enjoyable trip. :wink:

  203. Have you seen this article from Canada regarding the way President Obama is treated with disrespect?


    I loved it. Lots of people commenting positively.

  204. Good Morning Congenial Gang,

    Sagidreamer, thank you for your thoughtful comment. We are on the same page.

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom

    Auntie Jean

  205. Mageen, if that is the case, they will be gone in two years. I for one am keeping mum for awhile, let’s give them a chance to fix everything, at least until they are in office anyway. But make no mistake there are some very serious issues, the economy and securiety, so they can’t remain ignorant and act like fratboys for very long!

  206. Debra, you are so totally right! Check out what Congressman Eric Cantor (Republican from Virginia) had to say:
    The Virginia congressman expected to be the next House majority leader says Republican-led committees will devote more time investigating and exposing lapses by the Obama administration and problems with its programs, including bringing critical oversight reports to the House floor for very public debates.

    Sounds like 1.) making work to avoid work, and 2.) an ambition to be the next Ken Starr, Witchsmeller Persuivant.

  207. My dad read your post and he said “her I said the American people are ready for a new party and we’ll call it the MEME party. cause that’s what it’s all about, ME, and screw the rest of the people. But wait I guess we already have that party and they call themselves the republicans.”

  208. Remember when this country really cared about the downtrodden? When there was sufficient philosophy going around that went like “to those to whom so much has been given much is expected?” Now wealth is attained for its own self alone. Mark that! “Alone” Thats what happens when you are for yourself and no other, leading to the whole premise behind the question, “what am I?” The late Mother Teresa noticed something about the poor: they immediately shared whatever little they had with someone else who had a little less. Nowadays that would earn you the title of “socialist”, or worse, “liberal”. We’ve got to get back to being an unselfish caring place or get ready for a visit from three spirits ala Charles Dicken’s Christmas Carol.

    Peace, y’all.

  209. I almost forgot. Thanks PFessor. You made me chuckle.

  210. I have only visited this site once since before the election, and it does seem a little rancorous, No one’s puppet.

    Noah, 13 trillion in debt IS moving us forward–to Greece.

    I agree with No ones’ puppet, and to move it on, do you think Nancy Pelosi will retain her leadership position? Some blue dogs want her replaced, but they are a minority. Do you think Pelosi still wants to be House leader of the Democrats?

    The title of this thread reminds me of the Edward Hawkins singers song Oh Happy Day.

  211. Again, how is 13 trillion in debt moving this country forward? How is spending 1 trillion+ a year moving this country forward?

  212. Helen, Once again you’ve hit the proverbial nail on the head. The American people have the attention span of a gnat. What? Obama couldn’t fix everything in less than two years? Give him and his party the axe!

    I fear we’re, once again, headed into the “brilliant” philosophy of the Republican party (i.e., less government, except where women’s bodies are concerned). Their two main goals: To make sure Obama is a one-term president and to overturn the health care initiative, which has given millions of uninsured children access to health care. So much for working together to move the country forward.

  213. [...] Oh Happy Day ~ Margaret and Helen Margaret, happy days are here again. The skies above are blue again.  It really is  just too good to be true.  The Republican gains delivered by the Tea Party are almost more than I could hope for.  I only wish that lovely Witch in Delaware could have come along for the party as well. [...]

  214. I enjoyed your comment, SagiDreamer. :)

  215. Folks could all of you just chill, nothing changes until the new people take office, only then can we access which party has the advantage. Perhaps we could discuss, in both parties, who will get the leadership positions.

  216. Helen, thank you again and again for your wisdom.
    If anyone cares to join me in a short intermission:

  217. With apologies to James:

    I told you so.

  218. So much for the “not a factor” Tea Party:


    “‘When asked how the leadership planned to educate new members, particularly those who had never served in government, Representative Greg Walden of Oregon said, “My guess is these incoming freshmen are going to be giving us the training session.’”

    If you read it in the NY Times, it must be true.

    That’s a joke.

  219. North, fist off thanks for the personal attack. I am sorry you lack the intellectual capacity to confront me without personally attacking me.

    Secondly I stopped reading that thesis paper after the 4th paragraph because this joker had no idea what he was talking about. Bush had lobbied early in his presidency to stop the very thing that caused the economic collapse. You really should educate yourself on what truth and not taking people at face value.

    For your North I would like to present to you the facts.

    The day the democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009 it was actually January 3rd 2007 the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, the start of the 110th Congress. The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.

    For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is “Bush’s Fault”, think about this:

    January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress:

    At the time:

    1. The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
    2. The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
    3. The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
    4. George Bush’s Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!

    Remember the day…
    1. January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.

    2. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?

    3. Thank Congress for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment to this CRISIS by dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fiasco’s!
    (BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy, but no one was listening). <————–Don't miss this!

    And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA

    And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie?? OBAMA and the Democratic Congress

    So when someone tries to blame Bush…


    Bush may have been in the car, but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal and steering wheel they were driving. Set the record straight on Bush!

  220. As always, thank you, Helen, for telling it like it is.
    I am a US citizen who lives abroad, and yes, things are pretty good for me here. It is really too bad that many of my fellow Americans do not want to see that we are being “left behind” in so many ways, especially when we vote the wrong people into office – as happened in the House this year. If the Republican party and Tea Partyers have their way, we will literally be in thrall to China – and even sooner than we may think possible.
    But I am also fortunate in that my US residence is the state of Maryland and MD stayed very blue. In fact, MD has good infrastructure, good schools, informed people for the most part and just about good everything so “Blue” can’t be nearly as bad as the Teabaggers and the Republican-leaning US mainstream media would like us to believe that it is. In fact, being “Blue” is literally good for one’s health.
    I am heartbroken about some of the losses that we had on Tuesday – Russ Feingold and Alan Grayson among them. But, in addition to MD, I am so proud of CA, of CO, of WA (yeah for Patty Murray!), of NY (Cuomo, etc.), of NV (whew!), of DE (also whew!) and of all those other states where Dems who stayed true to their principles were elected or re-elected.
    Now if only our President will not let himself be led astray from his base once again. He needs to listen to people like Howard Dean (who delivered the Dem victories in 2006 and 2008 with his “50-state strategy” – much derided by the centrists – who was literally and unceremoniously tossed aside after all that he had done) and Nobel Prize Winner Paul Krugman, whose economic acumen is much better than the advice that the President is currently receiving.
    But I still believe in President Obama. He is intelligent, young, compassionate and committed to the American people. Considering that at every step he has been and will continue to be confronted by the Grumpy Old Party of No, a craven media, lapdogs to the corporations. and a Tea Party hyped by the No 1 party organ Faux Noise, he accomplished a lot. It took eight years for BushCo to totally FUBAR. In comparison, Obama has been a Miracle Worker – and all that in just 21 months.
    If the Republicans can actually put forth an agenda that means progress for ALL of the American people, instead of for the few who already have more than they need – obscenely more in some cases, then I wish them well. But, based on their track record so far, they cannot and will not.
    And therein lies the tragedy. For us all.

  221. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Noah, I have read the first few of your posts and now have the gist of what you are saying so will not bother to read or respond again.

    As one of the ‘Old Timers’ who have been coming to M&H’s site for several years, rarely have any the contributors here found it necessary to ostentatiously flaunt the degrees behind their names in order to claim authority. As for travel, over the past forty years, I think I can easily match yours, country for country, worldwide.

    We have a very dear lifelong friend who has been the head of the philosophy department at a prominent eastern university for over fifty years and is still at it. He advises PhD candidates. I am quite certain he does not share your point of view at all on any topic, nor do I.

    May I suggest that you go back and pursue your doctorate. Along the way, you could learn about the merits of political satire from Rabelais to Steward/Colbert. Who knows, along the way it might even be possible for you to find a sense of humor.

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  222. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Welcome Dave and Disparaged, I am glad you are here commenting. I do hope you can find some relief, somehow. My heart goes out to you.

    At age 81, I’ve had my fair share of sciatica due to spinal stenosis. But with medical help and without surgery, I’ve learned to live with it. I am relatively pain free without drugs. Hang in there!

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  223. http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

  224. Noah’s been here all day. Me thinks Noah needs some friends. Or at least a life.

  225. Read this and then tell me what Republican don’t like about Obama other than his skin color:


  226. My top 5% …malarky? well. Lets see.

    As for taxes, CBO calculates that the top 1 percent paid 27.6 percent of all federal taxes, including:

    * 38.8 percent of federal individual income taxes

    * 4.0 percent of federal social insurance taxes (Social Security and Medicare)

    * 58.6 percent of corporate income taxes (indirectly, through stock ownership)

    * 5.5 percent of federal excise taxes (on such things as gasoline, tobacco, alcoholic beverages and telephones.)

    If that is what 1% equates to. What would 5% be? Malarkey you say?

  227. Thought I closed that last link. It should be this.

  228. Noah,

    In fact, it is the top 25% which pays 82% of the nation’s taxes, so I don’t know where you got your ‘top 5%’ malarky.

    The top 1% wealthiest in America own 38% of our nation’s wealth. They pay about 28% of all Federal taxes.

    And that is just theoretical tax. In reality, the wealthiest are more likely to be able to shelter income and assets in order to pay less in taxes. Why? They have more ability to pay tax experts than the rest of us.

    So, no, the top groups don’t pay their fair share in taxes, either in theory or in reality.

    One glaring example of tax inequity is in Social Security because of how the wage base is currently calculated. Someone earning more than $1.1 million a year pays the exact same amount SSI tax as someone making $110,000 a year because of the current wage base maximum.

    You were correct about the differences between wealth and income, however, so well done you. The top 1% only earn 18% of the nation’s income, so paying 28% of taxes makes them seem downright saintly!

  229. Good for you, Tex. Sounds like life’s going your way due to your own intelligent acts and smart choices. Others are born into privilege. The majority of Americans never get there. Plenty work under harsh conditions chasing that carrot. It’s good for you that you have plenty of time to spend showing us your wit and wisdom. It just doesn’t come across as very brillant when you frame it with such pompous prose.

    I’ll add to your 10 list:

    Corporate $$$$$$$$$$$ buys the best propaganda campaign and usually the R assures the best return on their investment. It’s all about business and money and profits. Throw money at the one who can best grease the machinery of this beast that is USA,Inc. These puppets allow the corporations to write the laws benefitting them. The push is to further enable privatization of this whole country. This election was a big $$$$$$$ investment. They will expect a return.

    Fix it: We have to publicly fund elections and get corporations and moneyed influence out of government. Period.

    Dump the Fed. They are ripping us off. It isn’t even legal to exist.

    Small business isn’t the problem. Big business is. If you’re concerned with separation of church and state, you should look also at the issue of separation of business and state. How much of government is subcontracted and run by private enterprise? The MIL? Big problem.

    One potential way out is if the states will opt to hold a convention to take over the legislature. It takes 34 states to swing this. It has never been done in the history of the US, but it is our constitutional right.

  230. Welcome NOAH…

    OMG Donna acknowledged me.
    How special is that!!

    Donna I don’t need your attention.
    But geeze give it a break, get your panties out of a wad and get back to business what ever that is.

    I’m glad to opine that its good to breath the fresh air..and hear the birds chirping again and my IRA going up instead of sideways.

    I’m glad that his most humble of Presidents is going home again to “Indonesia” to be in touch with his people.

    I’m glad to hear from some new voices here.
    I got tired of reading Bozley’s homilies to innane
    boredom. My god can that man have run off…
    he could never complete a thought without breaking into another. Manic I would diagnose.

    In short, I’m not going away and I like it here.
    I think more should come and visit this porch which M&H gave for everyone to deliver their respective opinion whether it agrees or not with your own.

    After all, you can retreat to your Kitchen Clutch.

    Aloooha..and Namaste!!

  231. Helen, I love your passion and willingness to continue to fight. Thank you.

    I wish I can focus on the ‘eventuallys’, but all I can see are the millions who suffered, died and were less than they could have been because of the small-minded idiots who apparently are the American people.

    All I can hope for is that people educate themselves about the Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court which opened the floodgates to unlimited corporate spending in our elections.

    The effect has been devastating. For example, it was tens of millions in corporate dollars which defeated Russ Feingold in Wisconsin. He won every debate, he had a long record of public service, he was endorsed by every major newspaper in the state, and he lost. Badly. Most of the corporate spending was from out of state. Those corporations will be richer but the citizens of Wisconsin and our country will be poorer.

    I could go on and on, but the Citizens United decision has changed and will continue to change our country into something non-democratic and very, very bad.

    And to reverse this dreadful state of affairs will require a Constitutional Amendment… which will depend for its passage on the politicians who got into office with corporate funding.

    Please, everybody, educate yourself about this horrendous decision and take action. This is a good place to start.

    The only way we are going to overcome the floods of corporate dollars will be to get votes and plenty of them.

    Keep up the good fight, Helen.

  232. LibertyLover “Noah, I would like to ask if you admonish people at conservative sites for their view as well.”

    I apologize for not being clear. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Ones political affiliation has nothing to do with this. So in answer to your question, yes I would. To not do so would be hypocritical wouldn’t you agree?

    Mikat, sure I guess I could. Even though others have not done what you ask I will comply.

    We are a capitalist society. The foundation of our economy is based on this. We need business to thrive in order for our economy to prosper and for people to have jobs. To that end we must nurture an environment where business can thrive. This can be done many ways. Tax incentives is one way. It is a way I think has been proven to work. Even though the top 5% pay 80% of the entire tax base I know many of you believe they still don’t pay their fare share and you want them taxed more. The problem with this is we tax people based on their income. In an economy such as ours, the wealthy and the business owners that allow many of you to have jobs are the same class of people. I an not aware of any way to separate these two groups of people. To increase taxes on business, particularly small business would only serve to hurt our economy and raise unemployment even more. If anyone can show me how raising taxes on this group would help and not harm the economy I am open to hearing your point of view.

  233. PFesser, I never made any claims that any of you had an issue articulating your point of view. Could you describe to me where you feel I made that statement?

    As for understanding or not understanding. I read what is posted. Not to many words over three syllables so I feel I was able to comprehend what was being said. As for what was being said very little if any of it was objective. There was no concessions that anyone from an opposing point of view had any merit. There was a lot of name calling. There was a lot of bashing. There was a lot of sour grapes. And that was my point.

    Also, I don’t recall making any claims that I feel that my opinion is right wrong or indifferent. It was a topic about being open to what others think. On the topic of what others think, I feel that being open is right and not being open is wrong and self defeating. I think that was as close as I came to giving a right/wrong type of connotation. Please again show me where you think that is not so.

    Can a Real Christian and an atheist be friends? Absolutely. That is if both sides can do away with a little thing I like to call intolerance. I can accept someone who is a Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Black, Red, White or what have you. Those are the things that make you, you. Part of why I wrote what I wrote is this claim that Republicans problem with Obama stem from Racial issues. First off that would be political suicide. Secondly I cannot begin to fathom why any true intellectual would have a problem with someone based on the color of their skin. The pigment in my skin has nothing to do with my belief system or my competence. It does not hinder or help me in any kind of thought process or action. I never take it into consider when hiring someone. As a business owner I only care about what you can do for my company. Your religion, sexual preference, skin color, or gender are meaningless to me and to my bottom line. It is your skill sets and ability to perform and fit in that matter.

    What a better and different place this would be if we would only take the time to walk in another persons shoes and honestly take into consideration what is important to him or her while at the same time leaving our own bias aside. I admit it is a very difficult task and I find even to this day struggling to set aside my own beliefs to consider where another person is coming from. But the rewards for successfully doing it are tremendous.

    These things matter. Intolerance is the root of many evils and injustices. Nazi Germany and the extermination of the Jews, The extermination of the Sudanese in Africa, Racial cleansing in Bosnia, Religious, Sexual, Political, and Racial Intolerances. All because one group of people could not or would not open their minds to what another group thought or felt. Little events lead to big events, so they all matter, and they all should be taken seriously.

  234. You’re gutless JINO. If you match wits for a living, you’re in serious trouble. I hope you’ve got a gear you haven’t demonstrated here, or you’ll get run over.

    I don’t think you understand the issues Donna, nor do I think you’re nearly as accomplished as you want everyone to believe here. If you’re really as bright as you continually attest, you’d take the bet in a New York second. Prove it.

    I knew you would cower once the challenge was issued. You rate top bully on a blog of sheep.

    Running with the wolves? Not so much…

  235. No interest, Tex. I debate issues and match wits for a living. Someone who expresses himself as you do offers nothing in terms of education, knowledge, experience, enjoyment, or challenge. And there’s no “comeuppance” you’re capable of administering.

    As for pissing me off, sorry–not going to happen. You’re incapable of it and I’m sorry that trying to upset other people seems to be of interest to you.

  236. You figured out exactly nothing and you’re making even more of an ass out of yourself than usual. But nice try.

    And the two of you can be 5 years old together. Knock yourselves out.

  237. De,

    Tex, You float from place to place and attack people. I am not here to harass people and don’t go anywhere else to harass people.

    Contrary to what JINO tells you, 99% of the time, I’m at the same three blogs – two which are personal friends. And yes, it’s a monumental waste of time. It’s a horrible habit I’ve developed since leaving med school.

    It’s just that some bullying shrew like Donna occasionally needs her comeuppance. She’s an anathema to mankind, so I’ll slink to her level to piss her off. I don’t think she’s neither as tough or as shrewd as she would like all of you to believe, and I would be more than happy to prove that point.

    But you will also note that unlike the gutless coward, I’ll walk into a pack of lemmings hyenas and fight the fight.

    How about brave and rich Donna? You game for a match where it’s just you and me to debate issues and match wits?

    Should I answer for you now in your flippant manner?

  238. Hey Donna, a quick perusal. I figured it out. A JINO, hey? Well, that explains a lot.

    You know what? I don’t believe you. Judging from your disposition I’m guessing you have deep frown lines, alcohol-induced bags under your beady eyes, and yellow teeth. And a fat ass.

    Think so? I think a much more accurate description would be an aged otter – little beaver teeth that snivels…

  239. Jerrold–you’re welcome to think whatever you’d like. I can’t imagine anyone caring what someone who’s never met them imagines they look like, and I certainly don’t. But if that’s what you picture, it says far more about you than anything else: most people grow out of the “you’re ugly!” stage of discourse by the time they’re about 5 years old. Sorry you’re stuck there.

  240. Tex, You float from place to place and attack people. I am not here to harass people and don’t go anywhere else to harass people. Ever. Go look if you think I’m lying. Yes, I blog at another place – my own blog.

    I didn’t lecture you. I said it was sad because I think it is. I said I hope things look up for you because I mean it.

    Please leave me alone. I can’t give you what you need and I don’t want what you have to offer. Thanks.

  241. By: Donna on November 4, 2010
    at 3:51 PM

    “I tend to be described as good looking by people who have actually met me and, more importantly, my husband is still besotted enough to think I’m beautiful.”


    You know what? I don’t believe you. Judging from your disposition I’m guessing you have deep frown lines, alcohol-induced bags under your beady eyes, and yellow teeth. And a fat ass.

    And still probably not as ugly on the outside as you are on the inside.

  242. MaDonna,

    No one cares, Tex–no one cares. You want so badly to provoke outraged responses but you just don’t.

    Good. Then you won’t care if I stick around a little longer? It’s like picking low, hanging fruit.

  243. De,

    Tex, I’m sorry you don’t have better things to do. I sincerely hope things look up for you soon.

    Look up? Why? I would say things looked up Tuesday night. Besides, contrary to what MaDonna would have you believe, I’ve got a situation most would be envious…how many can walk away comfortably, still a reasonably young man?

    Now I do have a question De. Do you find anything ironic or contrary that you’re lecturing me about “having better things to do?” when you both blog and post often elsewhere?

  244. No one cares, Tex–no one cares. You want so badly to provoke outraged responses but you just don’t.

    Put whatever you want to the test.

  245. Tex, I’m sorry you don’t have better things to do. I sincerely hope things look up for you soon.

  246. Hey Donna, those liberal blogs you looked up? Two pals, Hippie and Rutherford who gave me the heads up weeks ago – one that unfortunately passed away recently.

    I got your IP… Shall we put it to the test? :smile: Don’t think you’re quite as “anonymous” as you might believe. Now we’re even. Now, come visit me on those insulting blogs and we’ll have a match of wits. I don’t like your chances.

    By the way, it appears your “HUGE DONATION” didn’t merit great favor Donna. And trust me on this one – you don’t “wash out” to medical you dunce.

    So in you honor Donna, since you’re the most egregious of the many insidious lefty spinsters here, I leave this for your DNC huge donation enjoyment:

    Devastation: GOP Picks Up 680 State Leg. Seats


  247. Disparaged & Dave, thank you for the perspective. I have a miserable backache that’s been getting me down, but it is fortunately temporary. I wish you well!

  248. but delurker: know that I (and lots of others) like you a whole lot.

  249. Jim, you win. You have done absolutely everything you could to make me dislike you. I do. You win. Big. HUGE.

    I concede to your capability and respectfully request that you stop talking to me our about me. Thank you.

  250. Hi Donna, Delurkergurl, Laurie, Colorado Blue, Lori, kimkimkimny, Fragrant Liar, Cheryl, Dave, Poolman and so many others here too numerous to list, but ALL who share the same clarity of belief and articulate your points so concisely with such wit, charm and purpose, its always a joy to read your comments – with the exception of those neo-cons who simply post here probably to get the attention they so desperately crave and apparently can’t get on their own right wing blogs; for them, I refuse to waste my brain and valuable time.

    Hi Poolman, thanks so much for the Bill Moyer’s link [one has to set aside time to read it but anything he writes is so informative] and if that doesn’t make one angry, nothing in this world could move that person to rage. I know every word he states is so thought provoking and the truth, but it is also disheartening.

    Lately, I have thought that the ONLY way regular Americans are going to make a difference in our corrupt system of government so as to save our nation would be nothing short of revolution. I’m talking about another civil war between the ultra-wealthy and all the rest of us, but I’m certain that if one of the mentioned organizations could enroll at least a million members who would focus on ‘one’ means of fighting back, we actually might get heard by those ultra-wealthy and our federal government. An extremely large group of people is an absolute necessity in order to affect change, to be heard and taken seriously because we would not have the money of those wealthy folk.

    Hi again Dave, I am terribly sorry that you too know the severe pain that back injury brings and I will wish the best for you with hopes that the pain will not continue to be so intolerable one day. I tried really for about four years to live with it for several years and did until I was 26 y/o, but the sciatic pain was so intense and I was unable to feel my right calf and front portion of that calf area [had a dead zone causing me to lose balance when walking] that I just couldn’t function and was forced to seek medical intervention. With each surgery, I’d think to myself, “oh great, I won’t have anymore pain the rest of my life” only to find out nothing was permanent and I doubt at this late stage, nothing will ever really work for any length of time, but I can’t give up because I have way too much to do before taking my final rest.

    You have taken the same route my hubby has in that he sees a chiropractor rather than go through surgery, but he is not nearly as bad off as you. It’s a Catch 22 because it seems as though your life consists of nothing more than pain which makes it so difficult to do anything, but you know you have no choice but to do what is required. I hope your pain will subside, Dave, but I also know that is wishful thinking on my part. Please hang in there because we need you and want you to continue providing your input. I understand how you must live in order to deal with the pain, but know that we are not alone in this and hopefully we can console each other by commiserating as sometimes that is enough. I will talk to you here again.

    Hope that all here commenting with truth and insight have a great evening and weekend too. Meanwhile, I’ll see everyone here again with the next fabulous post by M&H.

  251. Lordy–while I was typing it, Tex offered two more! Must be a slow night, Tex–too bad you don’t have anything else going on in your unsuccessful life. Maybe you could get a job as a lab rat?

  252. VOILA! For Noah, who opines that he’s never seen such venom, such intolerance, such bile from a conservative….I offer into evidence Exhibit A. Tex Taylor is its nom de blog. You will see two of Mr. Taylor’s examples of tolerance and open-mindedness and a willingness to engage in respectful dialog which have just been posted.

    However, if you would like to look a wee bit further, Noah, google “Tex Taylor” for, say, the last two weeks. You’ll see him appearing not only on liberal blogs (e.g., Rutherford) where he insults people, calls them stupid, and suggests they should die, but also on blogs where he shares such lovely respectful sentiments with others who share his political views. And, remarkably, he does this for literally hours on end.
    Never seen anyone who so typifies the expression “get a life.”

    Now, we can all feel sorry for Mr. Taylor, who apparently couldn’t cut it in medical school (after washing out of some other “career”), because he apparently has nothing else to do with his time and energy. And, of course, he has to rely on emoticons and such unoriginal terms as “Dimocrats.” But I thought, since you apparently were laboring under the impression that it’s a “librul thang,” that you might want to check the facts behind that assumption.

    And so, Noah, did you really mean what you said about respect and tolerance? If so, I think you might want to chastise Mr. Taylor. If not, it would appear that you were just, for lack of a better term, saying stuff for the sake of saying stuff.

    Anticipating Mr. Taylor’s likely next projectile vomit, no–I do not regret any contribution to any candidate. The political process is precisely that–a process. I look forward to the next election.

  253. Margaret and Helen,

    The one thing I can say without absolute certainty, beyond a shadow a doubt, and the confidence to stake my own life on this statement: you are incredibly wrong with at least one aspect of your current assessment:

    Time is definitely NOT on your side…



  254. It’s truly disheartening to watch a bunch of scumbags, hags, nags, harpies, shrews, spinsters, lowlifes, and other deviants liberals lose after an ass kicking our recent political election.

    To help alleviate your symptoms, I wrote these 10 reasons, still applicable, that can help you trough these troubling times:

    Top 10 Reasons for the 2010 Election

    (1) In the context of historic midterm elections, it’s not that big a deal.
    (2) Foreigners bought the election.
    (3) The Republicans won, but they have no mandate
    (4) The voters are too ignorant
    (5) It was a communications problem
    (6) Obama wasn’t “liberal” enough
    (7) Obama is still the front runner for 2012
    (8) It was the fault of Summers/Emanuel/Orszag/ Jewish departed staff scapegoat here.
    (9) 2010 election results were a repudiation of Congressional Democrats such as Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, but not of the president himself,

    And last but not least and still favorite:

    (10) It is George Bush’s fault.

    Better luck next time! :wink:

  255. “Noah, your description of the majority of us shows that you don’t at all understand where we’re coming from, what we feel, what we want, what we’re about, or what we support. I feel like most of us are pretty articulate, so I don’t know what the issue is. Either you aren’t comprehending what we say (voluntarily or involuntarily), or the prism you view us through is cloudy. I mean c’mon – do you really think that you are right and EVERYONE ELSE here possesses no self awareness at all?”

    Au contraire, mon amie – I think he understands many here quite perfectly – probably you and The Princess are the best examples, but several others are very close also-rans. I believe it is *you* who do not understand what you see…in the mirror.

    George Will distilled the attitude perfectly in a Washington Post article:


    For those too busy to read the entire article, I found one passage compelling. It describes the “Big Ideas” attitude of the Anointed, and their willingness to impose it upon us unfortunates whose intellect does not rise to the dizzying heights of theirs.

    ‘”These ideas,” Boudreaux says, “are almost exclusively about how other people should live their lives. These are ideas about how one group of people (the politically successful) should engineer everyone else’s contracts, social relations, diets, habits, and even moral sentiments.” Liberalism’s ideas are “about replacing an unimaginably large multitude of diverse and competing ideas . . . with a relatively paltry set of ‘Big Ideas’ that are politically selected, centrally imposed, and enforced by government, not by the natural give, take and compromise of the everyday interactions of millions of people.’

    Noah – I like your style. Cut and run isn’t my can of beans either. Can a Real Christian and an atheist be friends? If so………..FRIENDED!


  256. A couple of new posters don’t seem to like us. We seem to make them angry though I can’t figure out exactly why. Oh well. One of the very few advantages I’ve found with getting old is that I just don’t care much what those people think. Since Margaret and Helen are a few years older than me, I have a feeling they care even less.

  257. Ok, it has been 3 days since the Tea Party has taken over the House and I STILL DON’T HAVE A JOB! What happened to improving the economy, Republicans? How come my friend’s house is still going into foreclosure? Why haven’t you Republicans fixed the whole stinking mess you started in the first place???

    It has been THREE WHOLE DAYS! The Tea Party is nothing but a bunch of slackers…


  258. Best post-election wrap-up ever!!!

    Thank you.

  259. Did you guys see this on huff?


    I like Paul.

  260. We have a regular Oscar Wilde here. How witty. How urbane. A regular raconteur. Sadly, I can’t drum up any interest in Jerrold’s snappy repartee.

  261. I’ve no doubt you both need to get “besotted” to get through it.

  262. good evening, all.

    Jerrold: As difficult as it may be for you to believe, the opinion of someone I’ve never met concerning my likely physical appearance is not of particular concern. However, I tend to be described as good looking by people who have actually met me and, more importantly, my husband is still besotted enough to think I’m beautiful. That’s more than enough for me.

    jsri: You are so right. The same folks who carry on about the government wasting money will happily waste a whole lot of money to try to disrupt the President.

  263. “The Palins will abandon teen pregnancies as easily as a camel will pass through the eye of an early pregnancy test stick. No. The Palins will continue to give birth to abstinence only babies. That we know for sure”

    LOL That one is the best by far.

  264. Anyone up for sinking Noah’s ark? What a bore.

    I love these ladies for wha they are and not for what people want to make them out to be. They are smart, sassy, tell it like they see it, brillaint writers. I bet they are sexy as hell in person!


  265. delurkergurl on November 4, 2010 at 3:11 PM

    The threat by the new House will have less to do with the possible outcome of the threat to impeach than the process itself. It is simply an invitation to create mischief for the President.

  266. I wonder how many of them really know what ‘impeach’ means.

  267. Jerrold on November 4, 2010 at 2:51 PM

    a. wrong
    b. wrong
    c. wrong
    d. wrong (it goes without saying)

  268. Tracy on November 4, 2010 at 2:17 PM

    They’ll do just because they can. Remember Bill Clinton’s impeachment? This may be a rerun by a bunch of bozos who have nothing better to do.


  269. jsri,

    Let me guess,

    a. You got picked on as a kid and your little sister had to protect you

    b. You never had a job. You have always been “faculty.”

    c. You think being intelligent is something that you earned.

    d. All of the above.

  270. Noah, I would like to ask if you admonish people at conservative sites for their view as well. Because I can tell you the names I have been called on those sites I cannot repeat for their vileness if they even appear at all.

    Physician, heal thyself.

  271. Jerrold.

    Let me guess,

    a. You have a female boss.

    b. You were passed over at work and a female took your place.

    c. Your wife left you for someone who is perceptive and intelligent

    e. All of the above

  272. Please, please can someone tell me what rationale the teabaggers use to call for the impeachment/overthrow/coup of Obama? Even though I’m out of the loop (or have my head in the sand), I have heard this mentioned, but no one give me a good reason to do it or to expect it will be successful, or why it would be a good way to waste money and time.

  273. Donna you’re disposition is lovely. So full of warmth and laughter. I’ll bet you’re as beautiful on the outside as you are on the inside.

  274. Noah,
    You have come on this blog several times now imparting your superior ways of handeling things. Delurker, Poolman and others have tried many times to engage you in discussions. You never answer.
    Tell us what you feel are the Republican agendas that will FIX our economy, put people back to work, get us out of unwanted war and get the corporations and their dirty money OUT of our politics. When a govenment official is bought and paid for by a corporation you really don’t think he is going to ask us what WE want do you?
    Don’t lecture us, give us FACTS, not opinions. We will cheerfully discuss them with you.

  275. Oh, before I go: Delurker–what about another drinking game? Every time Noah praises himself?

  276. I’m not remotely the “mistress of the blog.” That’s just something that Craig (a/k/a Gregorio) says because he knows I view him as so sadly desperate for attention that he is the blog equivalent of Salinger’s goldfish at the side of the bowl, gulping madly.

    I have absolutely no problem seeing other points of view–in my family, my work place, my neighborhood, my community, or anywhere else. That’s a strawman that you repeatedly offer in lieu of any genuine discussion.

    I do just fine “comprehending” your posts. You announce just what is motivating the hosts or the people here when you don’t know them. I also would suggest you look into the concept of projection, since you repeatedly do what you accuse others of doing (e.g., claiming that people are limited to “emotional commentary” in what are purely emotional posts).

    I have no hatred or anger and your suggestion that anyone here does is just silly (and a further example of your habitual histrionics). [I admittedly do have some impatience for Craig/Gregorio, but that has nothing to do with his views--which he never really offers since he's so busy trying to get anyone to pay attention to him.] I know that I don’t have anything approaching even a minority of the “answers,” much less all of them. And I do lots of reading and listening and considering and fact checking. And then I do the best that I can to make a reasoned, reasonable decision that suits my personal moral code.

    I am at work and took a very quick break. But when I get back, I’ll look forward to your answer to Delurker’s question. Apart from that, I reiterate that, if you find the blog, the hosts, and the posters so distasteful, you’re wasting your time. And you’ve gotten very repetitive.

    Cheers all–back to the pursuit of truth and justice.

  277. Grandma Katie, your welcome to hide and cloak yourself with those who you find agree with you on everything. I chose a braver approach and I will step outside the box and engage others that I might see a perspective other than my own. You may have lived through those years but did you learn anything by it?

    You don’t know, what you don’t know. Unlike many of the people who think like you, I don’t claim to know it all. Matter of fact I have found as I grow older, I find I am realizing the smarter I get the more I realize how much further I really have to go.

    For me the major shake up to my way of thinking was when I took a year to travel to Europe, Asia and Africa. Talk about a culture shock. Things I took for granted, things I had assumed had to be true and no other possibility existed were suddenly challenged. These people had all lived very different lives than mine. They showed me things I had never even considered or taken into account. They taught me that what we are taught at home is only a very small percentage of what is possible. There is more than one right way to do something. There is more than one way to think about a topic, be it race, religion, personal freedoms, or a lack of any of the three. When I let go of my preconceived notions and opened my mind to what others thought, I believe I truly started down the path of gaining wisdom.

    If you can accept that you don’t know what you don’t know, and it compels you to be truly open and considerate of things that are not of your experiences, the world becomes a much more interesting place. If you want to closed minded and hurl personal attacks at me Grandma Katie, you are certainly free to do so. But I will not sit here and pretend everything is ok when I see all of this blind hatred being spewed by the so called compassionate party.

  278. Hey if hate is all you know then by all means go on hating. It only serves to show the fear that your beliefs cannot stand to scrutiny.

    Donna I am sorry for your inability to comprehend my simple as I can put it post. Is stated very clearly;

    “Helen, I don’t pretend to know who you are other than what I see you post on here. ”

    Your dismissive attitude only proves my point Donna. A complete inability to rationally discuss anything you cannot comprehend or is in contradiction to what you believe in. You have my pity and we can agree to disagree and move on.

    I stand by what I said earlier that all that have posted since have ignored out of I assume fear. All sides of the coin have some validity. Your inability to even discuss it shows that this is the true party of hate. The posts on this board dwarf anything I have seen on any tea party board. Someone sayd the name Palin and most of you see red and lose the ability to form anything but emotional commentary.

    All these posts full of hate and loathing, and I am the bad guy? I am a hypocrite? Gregorio, cut and run may be your stock and trade, but I don’t shy away so easily.

    Donna to your second post. How about you lose your own hypocritical and hold yourself to the same standards as your attempting to hold me to. If you are indeed as Gregorio suggests are the mistress of this board, lead by example and take me on point by point. Lose the blind hatred and anger. Be rational, considering a thought other than your own. Entertain the possibility that maybe you don’t already have all the answers. That even you can learn something new. If you can come down off that high horse, humble yourself to talk to such a lowly person as myself maybe we can get somewhere.

  279. Noah – first of all, i dislike your insults to M&H> Completely unfounded.
    Those of us who have reached that age have lived through a Depression, WWII, Korean war, Viet Nam, and the ongoing fiascos of Afghanistan, Iraq and all the current ongoing fiascos.
    I think we have gained quite an interesting bit of experience in that many years.
    Next example of your opinion is saying someone is obtuse, socially inept and clueless. You should become a speech writer for the Repugs.

    For someone who has so much education, you should have consontrated on grammar and manners. And if the people on this Blog are so seemingly unwilling to debate with you, then feel free to go frequent another more in tune with your ideas.

  280. Disparage, you don’t know how much alike we really are. I am totally disabled because I have degenerative disk disease in my entire spine. I have 9 degenerative disks that requires both Fentanyl (125mcg) and roxycodone (50 mg X8/day) just to get the pain to a manageable level. I’ve purposely not allowed surgery of any kind becasue I hear so little success with these surgeries. If I’m going to have to tolerate the pain at this level, then leave it alone, I want my parts as they are. But I feel for you and respect and understand some of the choices you made. There are 9 years separating us, but I understand. You, YOU, could never disappoint. There will be a whole lot of “with you in spirit” and we all need that.

    Poolman, thank you for your links, I loved them. I have loved Moyers for years. He’s one of those people you can “hear” (unlike our friend Noah, whom I have a very difficult time “hearing” him throuth all his ‘noise’) and I so appreciate his intellect. The coffeeparty link is GREAT. Thank you for caring.

    Dekurker Girl, Lori, et.al.., thanks for the encouragement. You hang in there and don’t let noisy Blue Dog Democrats get in your way with their noise. I don’t believe Mr. Noah is a Democrat, but if so, he’s Blue Dog all the way…and these guys are DINO’s and not of help. As I said above, its hard to hear a person like Noah as from the get go I feel attacked and the need to run for cover. Noise, noise, noise. Talk to us in a way we can hear you Noah, with all that education you must have a grasp on what I’m saying. By the way Noah, degrees don’t impress us, a damn good rhubarb pie recipe, NOW THAT IMPRESSES!! Anyway, you all give me hope in a time when hope seems in short supply. But I am drawing it just the same from you all.


  281. NOAH,
    Give it up babe.
    Donna has tarred and feathered you.
    She’s mistress at this site and takes no guff on the purported “lady hosts”.
    Go along with her, it will be easier to spar later.

  282. Oh, and Noah–I notice you didn’t respond to Delurker’s question. Rather than offer your predictable “all you have is insults” response (thereby wholly ignoring what I said), perhaps you might actually answer a question. Unless, of course, you really have no interest in anything other than bragging about your perceived superior judgment.

  283. I think you are wasting your time. I know you are wasting mine.

    You don’t know either of the blog hosts and it’s beyond presumptuous of you to purport to say what motivates them. You don’t have the foggiest idea, and all you have done is show that you demonstrate precisely the intolerance and ignorance that you criticize. The fact that you rationalize your intolerance as “calling a spade a spade” only shows how little insight you have into yourself.

    You obviously have decided that this blog doesn’t meet your stated desires. You also have decided that the blog isn’t humorous. Under those circumstances, your continued appearance here is inexplicable. You aren’t changing anyone’s viewpoint. You aren’t “educating” anyone. All you are doing is contributing to exactly what you claim to dislike. And that, to me, IS genuinely hypocritical.

    I have watched people try to engage you in a debate, asking you to support your stated views. You don’t: you bob and weave and repeat yourself and do everything but discuss. I have no way to know whether you actually have dual masters’ degrees. I do feel comfortable saying that you are far from offering the sort of “objective opinions” for which you congratulate yourself.

    You act like a complete horse’s ass and justify your lousy behavior by claiming it’s due to a difference in opinion. Nope–you could mirror my personal views 100% and I’d still think you’re obtuse, socially inept, and clueless.

  284. Noah

    Isn’t there an ark waiting for you somewhere?

  285. Phyllis in Philly, I find nothing funny about perpetuating ignorance. I see nothing funny in writing degrading things about people they are not remotely qualified or capable knowing or understanding. These ladies speak out of fear and ignorance and suck in naive people in to help bolster their agenda to propagate fear and loathing and infighting that serves no purpose but to tear down the fabric of what makes this country great. It was our patriotism and our ability to come together as a nation that made it possible to win WWII. These ladies and those like them erode that patriotism and make us a far easier nation to defeat.

  286. Donna. Calling a spade a spade. Why candy coat the truth by telling you how great these posts are for almost having an open mind, for almost thinking about others opinions, for almost thinking someone besides themselves might have a valid point. I dont see the point in that.

    Colorado Blue and poolman make my point for me better than I ever could. Disdain, insults, and the belief that no one but their party could ever possibly have a valid point. Hatred, anger is the common belief I see in most of these posts. I see no open mindedness. I see no one considering anything but the propaganda of their own political ideology. poolman is an absolute master of saying lots of words but ultimately saying nothing of merit. Insult then dismiss while addressing nothing, accomplishing nothing.

    delurkergurl, I 100% understand. First off the subject matter isn’t that challenging. I have a double masters both in history and philosophy so I consider myself well equipped, better than most to
    offer objective opinions. I have no agenda other than the welfare of my fellow man. While I find many things wrong with how we live and govern today I try to take a pragmatic approach in deciding how I will deal with it.

    Look at how people who don’t share the common ideology are described and treated here. The consensus seems to be that anyone not of your way of thinking are morons who need more than you to have the government hold their hands and guide them along because they are too stupid to think for themselves. I guess I am a little more optimistic that people aren’t as naive as many of you try to paint them.

    I am horrified by the prospect of a single party system as many of you seem to advocate. I think we seriously need a 3 party system at the Very least. I suppose we can agree to disagree but I feel if your not able to find any validity in both Republican and Democrat and Liberal and Conservative philosophies, that you are indeed naive and shortsighted. All of these lines of thinking have endured for this long because they indeed do have valid points to be made or no one would even know that they existed.

    I go on boards with views different than my own because I have a desire to learn and understand. Ultimately spending my time in a place where everyone agrees with me as many of you do here serves no purpose but to perpetuate propaganda and ignorance.

  287. Noah: I cannot imagine any thinking person believing that a post such as yours would encourage anything but what you claim to abhor. You don’t encourage discussion by calling people closed-minded and hypocritical, much less the far more egregious insults in which you have indulged.

  288. Thanks for the pie. I enjoy mine with tea! :-)

  289. Noah,, dear, it is all about the funny. Helen and Margaret are funny. Pull that stick out of your butt, let it heal, and relax a bit. JUST SEE THE FUNNY OF THESE POSTS.

    Really. I mean it.

  290. Not shiny enough for me. I do think those with opposing views should spend a little time in their dictionaries to understand better the meanings of the words that are bandied about. Start with conservative. Then look up progressive. Then look up liberal. Next try republic, democracy, plutocracy, oligarthy, theocracy, corpocracy socialist, fascist, and communist.

    This simple little task may well help keep you from speaking out of ignorance. Horse – water, water – horse. :grin:

  291. When I read Noah’s post, I thought it was criticizing the Republicans! You could take all of those words and switch it to them, and it would be accurate.

    Whenever conservatives talk about not spending what you don’t have, and they apply it to the government, I wonder why spending billions on wars and tax cuts for the wealthy doesn’t seem to bother them. But if you spend money you don’t have on health care and people in need, then it apparently becomes a problem.

    This is why I think of Conservatives as selfish and unfeeling. They just want to keep every dollar they have and screw their fellow man. They’ll regret this when their fellow man is so poor and destitute that they’ll start robbing the houses and people who have whatever is left!

    I don’t believe in ‘share the wealth’ – I just think everyone should pay their fare share, and with tax shelters, the rich pay no taxes at all!

  292. As a few of my friends and I say, we expect the Republicans to have the economy, unemployment, etc., etc. completely resolved by 2/1/11! We were going to say 1/7/11 but decided to give them a little more time.

  293. P.S. I’m pretty sure Noah called you a terrorist, Helen. While I do think she made some fair points initially–we should be more open to discourse from both sides cuz we’re not all right all the time (I was wrong last week…)–her argument fell flat when she called you a terrorist in typical conservative fashion. This is when I think it’s a good idea for people to look in the mirror. No?

  294. Noah, your description of the majority of us shows that you don’t at all understand where we’re coming from, what we feel, what we want, what we’re about, or what we support. I feel like most of us are pretty articulate, so I don’t know what the issue is. Either you aren’t comprehending what we say (voluntarily or involuntarily), or the prism you view us through is cloudy. I mean c’mon – do you really think that you are right and EVERYONE ELSE here possesses no self awareness at all?

    I read your whole speech and kept shaking my head and wondering “where does he get this stuff?” None of it rings true to me. I thought we had some common ground but evidently I was wrong.

    I’d like to see some blogs that don’t create this sort of dissonance in you. Really, would you mind sharing?

  295. When you’re the ones trying to fix the atrocious mess made by the last group in power, you see how difficult it is to make meaningful changes. This is especially true when the other so-called patriots who are supposed to be working WITH you (um, the GOP) digs their heels into the mud and says enthusiastically, voraciously, spitefully, “No!” Or, “NO!!” Or maybe even, “NO-O-O!”

    Nothing gets done when you’re the party of “No,” except that the inattentive public thinks those who said “Yes” are the ones who created the mess and couldn’t get a rock out of a hard place with both hands and a sledgehammer, and should therefore be ousted.

    I foresee the 2012 election cycle, and the GOP powers in the House lamenting, “Well, we got nothing done because we inherited a big mess from the people in charge before, and gee, it takes time to make changes in Washington, so don’t blame us.” And then they’ll cite some poll that says it’s the President’s fault for not being more conciliatory or seeing things their way because he “still doesn’t get it.”

    As a result, I think 2012 will be a good year for moderates. Hey, I think I see a silver lining!

    Love you guys, Helen and Margaret.

  296. “Don’t worry, be happy”…….every dark cloud has a silver lining and this one does, too. It could be the gift that keeps on giving and giving.

    These jackhole Repubs have been sniping at Nancy Pelosi since 2006 and screaming about nothing getting done in the House and Senate when in fact THEY are the reason nothing got done. Now America will be able to see that THEY are the ones who do nothing and The Orange Man will have to answer to the public. ( does ORANGE make him a person of color, too ???)

    If America put Washington on notice, we would have lost the Senate as well and we didn’t. Every bill goes to the Senate from the House and has to be voted on before it returns to the House. Can you say NO !!! Can you say FILIBUSTER !!! Can you say VETO? Turn about is fair play. We need to give back as good as we got for the last 4 years. They are in it for the wealthy and big corporations. Just say NO !!!!

    Now I ask you, which one of the people who voted Repub really want to give up their Social Security, Medicare and VA benefits, lose their jobs and have their unemployment benefits held up, pay higher health insurance rates and higher interest rates on their credit cards ? Yes, Helen, it will take time for these people to get it. It now becomes our job to speed up the learning process.

    Dems need to start educating America. We have to find a better way to communicate our message and we desperately need a better head of the Democratic National Committee.

    Thanks to a corrupt Supreme Court, corporations and subversive countries bought this election and the ignorant, just like always, bought their lies hook, line and sinker and then voted against their own best interest. Communist china is salavating, waiting for the Repubs to “pay up” and give them what’s left of our manufacturing. There are hands out in North Korea, Iran and Saudi Arabia to name a few, wanting their “gimme” for pouring money into the Republican Party.

    The Repub National Committee and Repub National Governor’s committee spent more money in Colorado than any other state trying to take the office of Governor and trying to win the Senate seat and they lost both to Democrats. Colorado remains BLUE ……..money does not always buy enough votes. Tons of money was pumped into the Chicken Lady in Nevada to defeat Harry Reid and he won, the sainted IDIOT palin’s highly supported Witch Doctor in Deleware lost and California retained Barbara Boxer and voted in a Democratic governor.

    There are many more registered Dems in this country than Repubs and that will not change. The Bagger movement will not die so they will be fighting with everyone including Repubs. Glenn Beck, bless his lunatic self, will continue to scream and cry and the hate mongers will continue to howl. Our job is to make damn sure that every Democrat goes to the polls in 2012. Start now and get a permanent mail in ballot if you don’t want to have to stand in line to vote. Volunteer your time to get the message out in whatever way you can. We need to be proactive……. now.

    We are going to need you, Helen. You are incredibly forward thinking and wise. There will be jackholes writing hateful things to you on your blog, but that just gives us more of a reason to work harder to keep the Dems in the White House.

    We can do this: $5.00 at a time, 5 minutes at a time. There are more of us so let’s get going.

    And please, VOTE OUT THE IDIOT palin’s SPAWN on DWTS. The idiot palin has her lackies rubbing their finger’s raw dialing in their vote again and again and again. What a stupid show……………..

    Colorado Blue

  297. For the record I am a Conservative Democrat. A Conservative first, and a Democrat second.

    This is, unfortunately, not a unique group of people here. I see so much fear, closed mindedness, bigotry, mindless hate, intellectual dishonesty, and a total lacking of intellectual integrity. The amount of hypocrisy on this board is astounding.

    This is supposedly the compassionate party, a party of the common man, a party of the working man. Yet on here I see example after example of the common man being described as an unthinking helpless idiot with the common sense of a gnat. I see dozens of posts on how superior everyone else is here and how everyone else is bereft of any worthwhile ethical moral values. The sear arrogance is almost overwhelming.

    I don’t understand all the fear. If you are all on this moral high ground as you claim then why not invite opposing points of view? I see anyone on here who doesn’t join this occult following bashed with emotional attacks lacking any intellectual merit and then asked to leave. If your beliefs are so superior to everyone else then why not open up those beliefs to scrutiny and let them be tested on an honest intellectual level. The only explanation I can come up with why you don’t is that you don’t truly believe in the things you say but personal gain and greed and self interest are so much at the heart of all of this that you are unwilling or unable to withstand any kind of challenge to your way of thinking.

    Maybe you yourselves have just taken everything you have heard at face value and haven’t done any research yourself. How can any of you claim anything remotely close to intellectual honesty if you cannot honestly examine an opposing point of view. I know for a fact most of you haven’t because none of you have been honest enough to say in writing that the Republicans or Conservatives have some valid points of view. In my entire life I have rarely (less than 1% of the time) completely disagree with an opposing point of view on a topic. Usually when a person has a belief it will typically have some merit to it but by my way of thinking at some point they have a fallacy in their belief system or a piece of misinformation that has lead them astray.

    The point being the truth can only be discovered by an honest exploration of both sides. I firmly believe that the truth is paramount, and that I would rather find the truth than to prove a Republican or Democrat point of view is right. On here I see people who only want to find facts to prove their side is right, with no desire to find out the truth. The creators of this blog sadly perpetuate this sad quest for ignorance.

    My Grandmother is about the same age as these women who started this blog. She lived through the depression and throughout my childhood she told us of the stories of that time and instilled in me the Conservative values I hold dear today. She taught me about making do with what you have, only spending what you can afford to take care of your family and helping others with what you have left. She taught me to take personal responsibility for the way my life unfolded and never to blame anyone else for what I wasn’t willing to go out and earn myself. Sadly Helen, you appear in your writings to be none of these things.

    Helen, I don’t pretend to know who you are other than what I see you post on here. What I see here is a person filled with hate and anger, unchecked by any kind of compassion or respect for those who don’t think as you do. You revel in the perceived bad times to come only because of a belief it will showcase your dim view of the Republicans with no regard for the negative impact that would be endured should this come to pass. You feign compassion for those that believe as you do but crucify those who do not. Did it ever occure to you with your decades of life experience to be a teacher and through wisdom convert those who don’t believe as you do rather than brand them evil and wish them ill?

    At the risk of showing disrespect to my elders, you and your kind is why America is the way it is today. You have drawn a line in the sand, have made it clear what a person must believe in to be an American in your myopic opinion, and the rest be dammed. You have no room in your heart or country for anyone who doesn’t follow your rigid beliefs. It was this line of thinking that made places like Nazi Germany possible. By way of proof you have gathered unto you a loyal occult following who hang on your every word. They are as unkind and unwilling to accept or show compassion to anyone unlike them. I sadly find your way of thinking to be infectious and destructive and a far graver threat than any member of al-Qaeda.

    I encourage all of you to focus for a search for the truth and let the cards fall where they may. The best way to show you have thought things through and are giving an honest and objective point of view is to admit the positive in your opponent but the show why you believe that despite that you are right. If you indeed feel you are on moral high ground then you should not have the need to personally attack or bash your opponent. To do so only cheapens your argument and portrays you as weak and lashing out to defend a ill conserved argument. If you honestly believe your argument is righteous then you should have nothing to fear from a challenge and should encourage to have your belief tested. Either way you win. If you prove your opponent wrong, then you feel more secure in what you believe in. If you opponent proves you wrong then he or she has done you a favor by allowing you to shed a false belief. Being intellectually honest should mean never having to fear honest debate on the beliefs you hold.

  298. Most of the talking heads on TV seem to think that votes for Republicans in this midterm reflect endorsement of Republican ideals, more that a vote of frustration against Democrats. Either they don’t get it or are hell bent on staying on script because lies repeated often enough become ‘truth’.

    Some voters want what Republicans want (????) and others just want different than what they have today. If my choices are A and B, and both are bad choices but I have to choose, I might choose B because I’m frustrated with A but that doesn’t mean I *want* B.

  299. Delurker, Lori, Jean Poolman and Dave,
    I am TOTALLY with you Dave!!! I want to get on board right now and start working for 2012. The Corporations have already funded millions towards the Repugs for 2012. WE are going to be out gunned all the way, but we can work harder and be LOUDER this time. We cannot wait, we have to get moving and fast. We don’t have time to lick our wounds, besides as they showed on the Daily show last night, The mid term election ALWAYS goes to the apposing team. This is “normal”. I am deeply disparaged too. I just want to sit and weep for the sheer stupidity that has taken over our beautiful country. Instead I want IN, I want to get to work. Yes we CAN.

  300. Wow, the bloggers on this site are really, really good! But,hey! Why not! Look at who attracts them!

    Saw Neil Cavutto on Fox yesterday trying to interview a newly elected Teahadist about the official Teahadist platform. You had to be there to see Cavutto’s face when he found out that this Teahadist was NOT going to do away with Social Security in any form, etc. etc. It was obvious that Cavutto thought he’d been had, that this guy was a fake! Hmmmmm!

    Unemployment in this country could end rather quickly if the big corporations currently sitting on mountain ranges of cash would stop gaming the system and start hiring. Yuh see, it isn’t all Obama.

    Pie for now! See yah soon.

  301. Thanks for making a dismal reality a little brighter.

  302. ivelostmymojo- take heart, these are tough times for us all- both both personally and politically. M&H offer wonderful insight and perspective which seems to be in short supply these days. It’s there to be found on a personal level as well, keep searching!
    good luck, hope i haven’t gone all old-geezerich on you!

  303. [...] from Margaret and Helen, who definitely deserve the last word on the [...]

  304. God Bless You, Ladies!

    You have such a wonderful ability to see through the politically correct crap and see the duck that is standing there. If it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck …..

    The Teapublicans want to take their country back.
    Back in Time before a Black Man became President.

    The Myans predicted the world would end as we know it in 2012. Do you think this is a prediction for the 2012 Sarah Palin Presidential Run?

    Please keep telling it like it is. I’m going to go bake some pie now. I really mean it.

  305. It has to be conceded that the Democrats got exactly what they deserved on Election Day 2010. So many of them have spent the last two years running like frightened rats from the legacy of their party. Most of them refused to embrace the ideals of traditional liberalism – or even explain them – to their clueless constituency. In fact they ran from those ideals. If you happen to be driving down Route 9W in the vicinity of Hyde Park, NY this morning, a distinct rumbling can be clearly heard. If you’re traveling north, the noise is coming from the rose garden of a mansion on your left. It is the sound of Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt doing somersaults in their graves. They wouldn’t recognize that worthless party today. The Dems have one thing to be thankful for, though. The carnage that was inflicted on them Tuesday would have been much greater had Republican voters not foolishly nominated so many certified kooks during the primary season. Isn’t life wonderful?


    Tom Degan

  306. It’s been less than a day and we’ve gone from the Constitution being the source of all wisdom to parroting the Iranian Morality Committee.


    The Tea Party Patriots, one of the the largest Tea Party umbrella organizations, with over 1,000 local chapters, hosted a press conference this morning to offer its reactions to last night’s elections and its vision going forward.

    Co-founder Mark Meckler tried to pre-empt expectations among the faithful that Washington would shrink and the federal deficit would close overnight, instead alluding to a “forty-year plan” that the group was busy working out with its members. The plan, according to Meckler, was a highway with four lanes, only one of which was explicitly political. The other three were educational, judicial and cultural.

    “All civilizations and empires have fallen because their cultures became decadent,” Meckler said. “We need to lift up conservative culture, family values and wholesome things by supporting conservative musicians, writers, artists and producers.”

  307. Hi Congenial Gang,

    Reporting in on itty-bitty Hawaii with a teeny-weeny population and representation in Washington, but we do count too! We came in pretty solidly Democratic and I am pleased.

    Everyone we voted for won in the statewide stuff. (At the local level, 5 out of the 7 county council people we voted for won. The other two we wanted were very, very, very well qualified but with no money and name recognition so went down to defeat. Figures. That tells ya something, doesn’t it?)

    Today, the supporters and in some cases the candidates themselves in person were out on the highway, waving and with big signs that said, “Mahalo!” (Thank you in Hawaiian.)

    I was also pleased with California. Now that’s a BIG state, 6th in the world’s economy I’ve heard. Perhaps California has seen the light and wants to dig its way out. So the news is not totally bad.

    Alaskapi, you sure gave it your best shot. I applaud you for it! I still don’t know yet what the outcome is there but anything is better than Miller.

    lori, a couple of weeks ago I talked here on M&H’s about being polled by Rasmussen and how I thought their questions were skewed. I do wish the American people were not so hung up and gullible on polls as to believe in them so much. No matter how we are influenced, we do ultimately act on our beliefs!

    For now, I am kinda weary of the post-mortem. I do think we have to take care not to become as hateful and spiteful as that which we have decried for the past few years. By now, surely we know the conservative game plan. Let’s not adopt their tactics. We just have to come up with rational ways to thwart them and move forward instead of backward.

    I have some ideas I want to share – later. But if you will please excuse me, I think I’ll take a break, do some painting while I listen to great music, and enjoy living a relatively normal, ordinary life – whatever that is. I’ll let you know when I find out!

    Aloha! :-) Namaste. Shalom.

    Auntie Jean

  308. I can not wait for the presidential ticket of PALIN–O’DONNELL, That will be the best of the republican party,

  309. Oh, Helen! I am a 37 year old woman who has never had children and now feels like I have completely lost my way in life. And of course the Republicans gave the Dems an ass-whupping. And then, today, I was working late and a guy stopped by my office to say “goodbye” because he heard I was being let go at the end of the week – which was news to me. It. All. Is. Just. Too. Much. And THEN a friend forwarded me your blog and I’ve read all of your posts from the last year and your Thanksgiving 2009 blog had me in stitches and it has helped me a bit to get through this lousy day/election cycle/midlife crisis/phase/whatever I am going through. I too hope to be 84 some day and cooking with bacon and butter and giving ‘em all hell.

  310. Helen, can I be you when I grow up?

    This made me laugh this morning. And I just got the excellent news that the Democrat won the governorship here!

  311. I want to subscribe to your blog.

  312. Helen great post as usual, you make me smile. And to Dave…I hear you.

  313. You said that with so much more grace than I could ever hope for. Thanks, Darlin’.

  314. Thank you Helen…you always make me giggle…better to giggle than cry..right…take care..

  315. as i have said over and over…americans are a bunch of bleeting sheep…following who ever is the loudest and the stupidest…

  316. Thanks Helen! Your post lifted my spirits and made me laugh about the sad state of affairs in this country. Most of the other posts also gave me hope, so many posters with astute observations. Yes, I should not, but I do, I am relishing the next two years to come, when the new speaker will have to work with the disparaged bunch we are sending to Washington. He can no longer afford to be the voice of no. Let the fun begin! I am beginning to feel this is not going to be so bad for the democrats after all. Sometimes, good rises out of adversity. Our country does deserve better.

  317. “Sarah Palin has a clear path to the Presidency in 2012… which means we’ll have another presidential election in 2014 when she quits.”

    At least I’m not the only one who thought of that. She’s a quitter.

  318. I LOVE THIS!! And I can’t thank you enough for the gift you have given me this day. You two take care and I’ll be checking back in on you!

  319. OMG!! FINALLY! A person with observation and common sense! I though myself and the outstanding person who turned me on to this blog were the only ones left.

    Regarding the election, I like to recall Winston Churchill’s words: “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” What in hell were they thinking?!?

    Do you suppose we could go off somewhere and start our own country? This one is now officially screwed…

  320. [...] Oh Happy Day Margaret, happy days are here again. The skies above are blue again.  It really is  just too good to be true.  The [...] [...]

  321. You’re welcome, Disparaged. The Bill Moyer’s link I provided actually has a link to the video presentation that the speech was delivered at, if you prefer to watch and listen instead of reading.

  322. Great post, Helen! You’ve scored yet another bullseye with your arrow of scathing truths. Please keep the discourse coming. We need it now more than ever.

    I have to admit I’m sort of hoping those RepuGnats will fly up Boehner’s nose. It’ll be fun to watch him swatting and snorting as he tries to keep them under his control.

  323. There is at least some consolation here in CA.

    Brown sent MegaBucks packing and Carly went adios.

    Now we have to, in the words of Tim Gunn…”Make it work”.

  324. Excellent post, Margaret! I’m always demoralized at the crap the Republicans and (worse), the Tea Party regressives spout, and even more demoralized that so many fools swallow that load. Your post lifted my spirits if only momentarily.

    I am at the point that if I can find a country with a slightly saner citizenry I’ll gladly move there. The US has lost its mind.

  325. Sarcasm is funnier when coming from a feisty old lady…

  326. Helen, love this blog………finest election $$ can buy.

    The party of NO and wackos sure make a person proud

  327. Wow Poolman, thank you for linking to these two terrific blogs. I have always loved anything Bill Moyers is involved in and although I can’t read his work right now, I plan to do so tomorrow between getting ready for doctor, going to doctor and then returning here to direct my husband in the finer points of housecleaning. He’s always so kind because he’s just a wonderful human being and man, so he doesn’t mind helping me in any way that makes me happy and he knows what an avalanche takes over my being by OCD when it’s time to clean our house. I know how fortunate i am to have him as there is nothing he won’t do to make my life easier, just as I have done for him until this latest surgery when I was in no shape to help him very much. That’s what people call love. It’s simply loving each other so much that you will do whatever you are capable of doing and he does the same for you with the twist being I’m so particular that I have to check his work to make certain it falls within my guidelines of perfection. And because he is not a particular, I do things that also fall on my guidelines of particular neatness and perfection, We are both happy since we do this with great love and joy for one another as well as share respect for anything either of us does that’s extra for the other. It’s joy and brings happiness to us both, After being married 30 years and him being 15 years younger than me, he’s happy just to see me happy. My point is to tell you that I am unable to read this article now, so ask if you can check back here in comments tomorrow afternoon so I can provide feedback as thanks for you turning me on to Bill’s article, Ditto the same about the ‘Coffee Party’ as hopefully I will have read them and can at least comment and thank you at the same time. Thanks so much! This delights me as I have two issues to read about tomorrow! It’s a bright lite in my life. Thanks for providing the links. That was sweet.

  328. FNALLY once and for all can we put this lie to rest?

    RASMUSSEN IS BIASED: Rasmussen polled over 75 races from the middle of October until Election Day. Let’s narrow that down to their most recent polls in each race (since, after all, they polled some races multiple times). So, looking at unique races, we get down to 57 contests. The House of Ras overestimated the margins in the race to the advantage of the GOP in 46 out of those 57 contests (81%). In an ideal world, of course, a pollster would get their numbers wrong pretty evenly. For example, with our pollster (PPP), their numbers wound up overstating the Democratic performance 17 out of 32 times during the same time period, and the GOP 14 out of 32 times (they hit IL-Sen right down to the tenth of a point). It cannot be attributed to mere coincidence that Rasmussen’s polling overstated Republican performance over three-fourths of the time.


  329. I love you Helen! Thanks for making me smile today.

  330. Helen, you rock immoderately.

    I’ve thought so for some time. I was just inspired to say.

  331. Margaret and Helen,

    I just learned about your blog from a poster on Maddowblog. I love your energy and attitude. I’ve put you in my favorites and will be visiting often. You gals rock!!

  332. I knew the dems would lose big last night and am sick about it. You are absolutely right about Americans having the attention span of a gnat. How in the world could ANY president fix the wrongs of eight previous years in such a short time? I’m frustrated too, but the tea party sure isn’t going to be helping me…and I’ve been out of work for 21 months and counting!!!

  333. It is a relief to know that in my home state (Ca.) shelling out $141,000,000.00+ could not buy a governorship, or even fool enough voters to give that Meg gal a shot at it. Thank goodness Boxer will be there to fight for women’s rights among other things. I still believe that ‘we can’. It’s just going to be a helluva a lot harder with all the extra crazy, human speed bump, obstructionist, self-centered, xenophobic nut-balls who were given a seat at the party….sigh.

  334. Damned good! Really! I mean it!

  335. Bozly, you are right in that many people don’t fact check, however, those who need more than the rest of us to fact check, DON’T BELIEVE IN FACTS, so they have no reason to check on their validity. That and the LIES, HATE, BIGOTRY, RACISM which passed for ‘discourse or discussion’ were nothing more than rants or talking points and the Teapublicans threw them out with wild abandon because they knew the people they were talking to wouldn’t ‘fact check’ because ‘facts’ didn’t make a bit of difference to them. McCain and Paylin have made it an art to dare anyone they talk to to fact check anything they utter. So when they have a captive audience who just thinks, ‘oh, she’s just like me, she’s so pretty, sexy, [dumb as a rock], it does no good to even say the words ‘fact check’. Aside from that, they aren’t interested in truths either, so they will always remain the ignorant idiotic imbeciles they are at present.

    Dave, I would assume that you belong to the Human Rights Campaign and they have a plan for the future. Although I am not LGBT, I support them and the Color of Change although I am also not AA. I would do so much more if I were younger, but I’m 67 and just recovering from my 14th back surgery where I had screws [the type one uses to hang kitchen cabinets], plates and rods placed to fuse my thoracic, lumbar and sacral spine. I go to the doctor tomorrow for my first post-op visit and hope to have some good news awaiting me then.

    However, I am so angry though as I always read the NY Times and just saw where Obama gave a speech stating that he was ‘humbled’ and vows to ‘work’ with these bastard Teapublicans. How can he be so obtuse? They HATE him and nothing he does will make them change their minds about him. Their sole purpose in winning last night is to make certain he is a one term POTUS and they will do EVERYTHING in their party’s and personal power to rid us of him, the sooner the better. But last night’s losses were a referendum to tell him that the majority of Americans don’t want any more trying to work with these imbeciles, but rather to continue the work the Dems started, hopefully include more avenues for job creation such as telling the TBTF banks and other corporations that there are conditions they must meet unless they want to be taxed out of existence, AND people WANT/NEED to HEAR ABOUT THE DEMS ACCOMPLISHMENTS in ways that regular people can understand so these bastards can’t take credit where credit is NOT due and can’t continue to ‘make up’ their own ‘facts’. TRUTH must be told in a succinct manner, on a DAILY BASIS, where ALL people can understand and relate to ALL their accomplishments of the hard work carried out on our behalf. Without that, these bastards will continue to SPEW their LIES, HATE AND BIGOTRY and THAT IS NOT DISCOURSE AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

    Our little granddaughter learned our President’s name when she was 4 years old and she would say, “BarockanNobama”. Gotta give her lots of applause for trying and it was just so cute to hear her say it in ‘singsong’ lilt. She’s a sweetie pie!

    So Dave, inasmuch as I hate to disappoint, as I truly would love to be more involved in so many aspects, I have had the worst health since young adulthood and never know what each day will bring in terms of my physical capability. I have also had about 30 other major surgeries not related to spinal injury and have a Synchromed Morphine Pump implanted in my stomach with leads directly into the spinal canal to assist in alleviating severe pain with which I live daily and work hard to keep from resorting to a wheelchair as I don’t want to lose any more freedoms. Things in our world are simply not conducive to people who are sick and it puts a lot of things I want to do out of reach. However, I am with you in spirit. I hate saying that because it sounds like a cop out, but I can’t trust my physical condition many days to do anything more than lie flat in bed. When lucky, I am able to read and comment, but can’t even bank on that each day. I don’t like telling people my history, but I don’t want you to think I’m making excuses; you know, all talk and no action. Life is unfair, so I try to make the most of each day whenever I am able, but can’t always guarantee a day. I’m so sorry to disappoint.

  336. Dave I’m with you. Don’t be disheartened. Progress is not easy. We will pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and start again tomorrow.

  337. Good article I just read, thought I’d share.


    For sanity, check out the coffee party Dave, Disparaged, others…


  338. People say it’s up to the Repugs to create jobs. Guess what? Any job creation credit should be credited to President Obama,not Speaker Boehner. He’s the one with the stimulus,and the House doesn’t want one even though we need a second stimulus.
    Speaker Boehner said “HELL NO YOU CAN’T!” to the President who passed health care. If he tries to repeal all of it,tries to cut necessary spending,Social Security,Medicare,etc.,we’ll say hell no you can’t!

  339. Y’all give me hope. Dekurker, Disparaged, Bozley, where do we go from here? I’m serious, like the Tea Partiers, their movement had to start somewhere….our movement can grow from Margaret and Helen. Our movement will be the exact opposite of both the Tea Party Plank and the Republican Plank. While we will support the basic premises of the Democratic Party, we have a much bigger and immediate agenda.

    It all starts with the first step…and shout out! Lets go!!! We need to have a focal point to start from, a place to meet on line in private at first…any ideas? Since 25% of the total vote yesterday was cast by senior citizens over 65, I say we can do better! I’m 58, a youngster…lets get going….time’s a wastin….

  340. Dave, I’m with you and I know that most people who read this blog, as well as keep themselves informed about what is going on in this country [rather than take the word of people like Scarah Paylin, Carl Paladino, Sharron Angle, Carly Farino, Meg Whitman, Christine O'Donnell, Joe Miller - ALL LIARS who have distorted the truth just so they could win an election after spending millions to earn less than $200,000 annually proving that something is VERY WRONG with that picture] by reading various newspapers like the NY Times, Washington Post [which has gone the way of the GOP in the last two years], LA Times, Chicago Tribune, many blogs, comments, etc. We stay informed so that we will actually KNOW not only what is going on in our world, but who is making what happen in the world, unlike those of our electorate who rely solely on liars and simply follow them like sheep being herded by dogs. In the two years until the next presidential election, these sheep will hopefully realize the mistake they made in reinstating these REGRESSIVE TEAPUBLICANS who only want to take our country back to antiquity rather than forward to progress.

    So I will shout loud and proud that I’m thrilled I am nothing like those sheep and am proud that our President, Barack Hussein Obama, has done much to bring us into the 21st century even if I have been disappointed in many things that weren’t done the way I personally would have preferred. And yet, even though he ‘saved capitalism’ without these idiots realizing all he did for them, he is still willing to extend the hand of bipartisanship [unlike me who would not subject myself to any more of their garbage]. So I’m with you because I’m happy to move forward as opposed to moving back to the days of Bush/Cheney, the Chinese credit card expenditures of two wars, the wasted lives and treasure of Iraq war, the removal of regulation over the financial industry for which speculation caused gasoline prices to soar in the spring of 07 as Bush looked on dumbfounded, the total destruction of our economy with other nations following close behind, the degradation of our public education system, the soaring costs of college educations, the clean energy deniers who allowed the largest oil spill in American history to occur by setting the stage for oil companies to run rampant with no regulations, the tax cuts for the wealthy [like they don't have enough wealth], etc. ENOUGH TRULY IS ENOUGH. And yes, your are right – religion is truly the ruination of men because there is no science behind the beliefs and Jesus was the first alien to visit earth. I want the wealthy to pay the same tax rates they paid when Eisenhower was in office which was 94%. I’m sick to death of the racism, bigotry, hate and lies and like you, want to take our country back from the right wing, bigoted, tax raising idiots too. So I’m with you all the way. I’m saying it loud and I’m saying it proud – let’s take our country back from those IDIOTIC CLOWNS who only want to destroy our country, our way of life so they have all the wealth and power! I don’t think any of them have been smart enough to ask themselves, “what will happen when they don’t have the middle class to bail them out of their huge economic mistakes or work in their corporations?” I would love nothing more than to have them find out the hard way! I’ve had ENOUGH too!

  341. I’d write a response to this, but I’m too busy packing my bag to join the French Army.

  342. Dave, I’m with you!!! Right out loud!

    Donna, you write very well. However, in your last comment I’m afraid your word choices may have been too many syllables for people who are too inarticulate to do better than ‘STFU’!

    To the people we so greatly disappoint that you stoop to childish attacks – sorry we disappoint you. Better luck at your next stop!

  343. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Well, clearly the voting public no only has the attention span of a gnat, but they are clearly insane. This is akin to making the bank robber the bank manager after the robbery. IN-F*&%ING INSANE!

    I am very depressed this morning, even Helen’s scribe couldn’t force a smile today.

    Bozley, I couldn’t agree with you more. We need to shout from the roof tops on what we gained, on the good that has been done in the last two years. I am afraid all gains will be lost now.

    Dekurkel girl, you are sooo right. The political theater of the next two years will be between the TeePee’s and the Republicans, with the Dems are on the fringe. I listened to Rand Paul’s acceptance speech last night and it was not the least bit entertaining, it was scarey. I do not envy the job of either McConnel or Boehner in dealing with these bozo’s, but they certainly deserve them. Also, Dekurker, I went to that site you hooked us up to regarding Boehner…seems he does have quite the problem with “the gays”, me. On top of Iowa exacting revenge on Supreme Court Justices for doing the right thing, its sickening. People stay the frig out of my bedroom and I’ll stay out of yours damned (to hell I hope) religeous quaks.

    I am very happy with the results in California, where I live. Even the Attorney General race all though razor thin right now, 46%-46% the Dem is 15,000 votes ahead. All state wide offices went Democrat so there is reason to have pie.

    Still, I cannot believe what happened, and I am very wary of what is going to happen next. I know what I do want to happen. I want us all to rise up and take a stand the likes no one has ever seen. I want them all to see that NO, the majority of Americans don’t want the health care plan repealed, only a small minority of bigots want that done. I want them all to see that YES, a majority of Americans want Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell repealed. I want them to KNOW that the majority of American’s did not want the same yahoo’s who got us into this mess in the first place put back into office. I want them all to know ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and now we truly do want to take our country back from the religious, right wing bigotted tax raising idiots and restore our blessed country to what it was in 1999 before George W. Bush and his henchmen got a hold of it.

    Is anyone with me on this? Say so loud and proud!

  344. Actually, Howard, that might explain why you come on to the blog–to read different points of view. Of course, saying “STFU” suggests that you don’t care to read different points of view at all–you simply like to insult those who hold them.

    Putting that inconsistency aside, what is it that makes you insult the people who hold those viewpoints? Do you believe that you change anyone’s mind? Or does it simply make you feel good to attack others?

    It is fascinating how people who apparently identify with conservatism frequently rationalize their views as “Christian” or “patriotic,” yet these same people feel free to act in a way that is anathema to the very values they profess.

    The internet is an interesting thing. People who normally behave with courtesy towards others feel free, because they are anonymous, to engage in the most egregious rudeness. It would appear to indicate that, to the extent they avoid rudeness in their daily lives, they do so because they fear the repercussions, not because of any innate decency or character.

    So, Howard and Jay–that would appear to sum up the two of you (as well as the occasional other visitors who appear here from time to time). You like to tell people they are somehow less than you are. Pretty sad way to live and you certainly accomplish nothing worthwhile or constructive.

  345. Helen, thanks for reminding me that some things do change, albeit slowly.

  346. “Oh Howard, if you dislike what is said here so much, why bother to read it?”

    I believe I will respond to that question. It is because I am interested in what the other side of the political spectrum is thinking, even if it’s ludicrous.

  347. The good thing about being old is time passes fast. Is it over yet? Now? It will be fine, if we approach it with humor, thanks for another good one Helen!

  348. We will see if the Republicans can actually attempt governance in the House of Representatives. Given how much they seem to abhor the real practice of democracy as outlined in the Constitution, they may be in for two years of cognitive clangor.

  349. For all voters of all parties and ages: ‘change’ is not immediate and gratification is not instant. That is the definition of adulthood.

    On behalf of my generation, I apologize in advance to my children and future grandchildren.

  350. If Palin gets elected president, then someone points out to her that she can make more money on Dancing with the Stars than being Pres, she will no doubt go the DWTS route, so maybe she will quit before the January inauguration and not subject us to two years before quitting?! It’s a thought ;-)

  351. Things are looking up here in Iowa–we got rid of some of the sane folks and replaced them with nit wits and twits. The best thing is voting to not retain our Chief Justice of the Iowa Supreme Court and two other scoundrels — Justices–that misread the Constitution in regard to same sex marriage and handed down the wrong opinion. Gods faithful servants who lie awake nights woorrying about two people of the same sex at the end of their block that might be thinking of taking out a marriage license can now rest at night. They are also thinking of bringing back lynching –if someone gets in their way.

    God save us from churchaholics and holy blowers!

    Obamamama in Iowa

  352. Just the perfect post for todays political hangover. You made me laugh and that is good.
    Barry sent me and I am so glad he did. You are a delight.

  353. Hi delurkergurl, thanks for the heads up on Suntan John. It’s truly impossible to refer to him as anything other than ‘subhuman’ because even animals have more empathy for other animals and humans! I hope those who voted to put this piece of crap in the Speaker’s chair like what they see for the next two years because he scares the hell out of me! With a record like that, he should actually be living in Iran as he would fit right in with those in power there.

  354. Apparently America needs more time in the crapper, to realize where shit actually comes from and how unpleasant the whole process is to the vast others that inhabit the planet. :wink:

  355. Poolman, thanks! We need something to laugh about after being betrayed by so many ignorant Americans yesterday! I keep hoping they will smarten up, but the proof is in the voting and I’m ready to give up on hope about that portion of our politics. One would think they would like having a functional brain, but then again . . . Anyhow, have a great afternoon!

  356. Good morning Helen,

    Thank you for your new post. I especially liked the last paragraph. Eventually……..

    Aloha! Namaste. Shalom.


  357. Currently rereading Steinbeck’s The Winter of Our Discontent. Holds many lessons that ring true today and to the way this country chooses to be. . . .except I don’t see America willingly leaving the cave. . . .

  358. Here’s what John Boehner supports – or doesn’t. Wow.

  359. Sarah Palin will take this as a mandate to start packing for the White House. Will she have to apply for a gun permit in DC?

    So… after cutting taxes on the rich and gutting environmental regulations and regulations on corporations… they’ll need to start hyping up the reasons for going to war with another country. That way, once Mama Grizzly moves in, they’ll have the mantra already in place that theyWOULD have been able to fix the economy, but for that necessary…um…war, you know. (Not to mention that it gives the poor such a nice way to have a guaranteed employment.)

  360. Jay and Howard,

    We are sorry that you are having a bad day. Hope it gets better.

    As disappointed as I am for the results, particularly in my state of AZ. (Poolman, I feel your pain) I am content in the knowledge that this country has been through much worse… Civil War, WWI, WWII, etc.

    We can come through this as well. Everyone knows someone who has lost their job in the last 10 years. We all want the American people back to work.

    I hope the Republicans will actually take this into account if they continue to vote against small business loans and continue to allow tax breaks for those companies that outsource.

    Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening.

    Peace, ladies. Keep on keeping on.

  361. Oh Howard, if you dislike what is said here so much, why bother to read it?

  362. Thank you, I needed that!

    I didn’t need the inane comments of Jay/Howard but whatever, I’ll never understand why people come to a blog they fundamentally disagree with only to insult the people writing it. I have an idea, Howard, take a hike!

  363. You mentally insane liberals can just not get over the urge to lecture other people about just how superior you are. I have an idea, STFU.

  364. You people are deranged

  365. Disparaged, I like that. The KY jelly will be administered by Rand himself. How civil is that? :grin:

  366. Once again, you and almost all of your readers SO rock!

    I’m always so relieved to come to the oasis of sanity and realise I’m not the only one sitting and wondering WTF were they thinking

    Oh wait, they weren’t

    Short Attention Span Theatre at its finest

    I don’t think most of the R and TP backers realise they are all just pawns in this class war

    The have everythings continue to gain and the have nothings are losing their nothings

    Somebody PLEASE make it stop

  367. Engrady, you said a mouthful and you said it so well that the picture you painted was so vivid, I got the KY Jel out for all those ignorant electorate and those who didn’t bother to vote because it’s really gonna hurt. All we can do is hope Obama has his veto pen at the ready and that the idiots who put the rats back in power suffer even a little more than the rest of us!

    Thanks Delurkergurl and Engrady.

  368. Thanks, Helen, for a rational take on the results. I think I’ll go have that pie and raise a coffee toast to you now and have a better day for having done so.

  369. From today’s Orlando Sentinel

    Here’s an explanation by Lane Wallace for the wingnut’s reality dissonance and disingenuous denial.

    “Why do people cling to an opinion even after they’re presented with the contradictory evidence?” The short answer is “irrational thinking.

    An important point is that it is “PURPOSEFUL.” These ideologues selectively interpret the facts—“contorted logic”—to make the conflicting evidence just go away. Even when trusted sources tell them the real and contradictory facts, it actually “intensifies” their denial making them more rigid and more entrenched.

    You can lead a horse to water—show them reality—but you can’t make them drink, moreover they can deny the facts, but they cannot deny the reality of the consequences of the facts.”

  370. You are the best. Lo

  371. Sorry. ^^^ ‘by cutting’, not ‘but cutting’.

  372. One more, and then I’ll shut up a while.

    Bozly84, you raised some really important points, especially about not taking the time to LOUDLY recognize progress.

    It’s open enrollment time at work. I learned yesterday that my health insurance coverage cost has increased by $100/mo. That’s only my portion of the increase. My employer pays a great percentage of my health insurance cost – their increase for my insurance is probably over $500/mo. It’s nuts! For the extra money, I get higher copays, higher deductibles, and more expensive prescriptions. The doctors get screwed, too.

    This has happened every year for at least a decade. When will it stop? Never, if Agent Orange has his way. I wonder who he gets kickbacks from?

    Many people bought their new seats in the election yesterday. Most were screaming about job creation. Take Michigan’s new governor for example. He made an outrageous fortune with Gateway and farmed all those jobs overseas. He will reward companies that keep doing it, too. He spent over $6 million of his own money on the campaign, ridiculously out-saturating the airwaves with his “message” (with no content). He could have done his state far more good if he’d used that money to create his next venture and HIRED people. He and his ilk ARE the problem. And now they are in charge.

    Well now these people are going to be expected to cut taxes and create jobs. They don’t have a plan. It’s impossible. They’ll pay for it but cutting wasteful spending and fraud. They’ll fail. Instead, they’ll cut taxes on the wealthy, raise taxes for everyone else, abandon people who are in need because of corporate greed, and then blame it all on the Democrats.

  373. Helen, did you say this through gritted teeth and a forced, brave smile? Because that’s how I feel when I read your letter. You are right: Americans want what they cannot have. And it is “Economy” all over again. Several people claimed that they voted GOP “instead” this time because they needed something to work. I have this mental picture of a prisoner digging tunnel to freedom but only at the last minute did he decide to change route even though his original tunnel is only 5 minutes of digging away to the outside. If only he had stayed course… What gets me is that the economy will take time to recover, probably on its own, like a flu, the GOPs now will be able to take credit for it. UGH. SIGH. ARRRGGGHHH.

  374. Laingirl, you’re right. Humor – and baseball!

    “Walt Whitman once said, “I see great things in baseball. It’s our game, the American game. It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us.” You could look it up. ”

    Annie Savoy – from the movie Bull Durham

    For some reason your comment reminded me of that quote. :D

  375. Not going to “beg” but DO disagree James..The nation as a whole is NOT “center -right”…THAT is a MYTH. THink as well that the Dems were FOOLISH and to the extreme of INARTICULATNESSINGS…MUCH HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED in the first 2years of Obama …The dems FAILED in explanations and miserably failed in claiming the victories–many were busy , hard at work to MAKE further progress. The Dems failed in that they allowed the UNTRUTHS be THE common chatter points. Most folks FAIL to realize what they WERE gifted with in healthcare reform and tax breaks and financial reforms as they were bombarded with well sponsored messages to the contrary . The FAILURE to FACT CHECK and let emotional tugging sound bytes over rule rationality is self evident but so is the disgust AT the Dems for NOT STANDING TALL, coming off wishy washy and somewhat spineless as they were perceived as backtracking in order to cling on. The DEMS FAILED TO ARTICULATE ACHIEVEMENTS and firmly uphold them or is at the very least how they are perceived. There was a good voter turnout, but NOT good enough and INDEED a message has been sent and received but unfortunately, does not appear to have been truly heard at this point(especially when chortled that the nation IS “center-right” and time to “take back” the country/etc’s–Just wait and see and FACT CHECK…Think the government spending too MUCH? What exactly WILL be cut ? Hate the healthcare “reform” that disallows cancellations due to designating cause as “pre-existing” therefore zappable/not covered..children given coverage til age 26yrs..Perhaps few bothered to note how much of the HC burden had been shoveled onto them even with employer HC “benefits” which were consistently trimmed along with more of the costings passed along to the employees…Unnoticed was the call to find the culprits who profitted falsely at the expense of those in NEED of care..There IS abundent fraud but upon closer inspections, those that jack up the PRICES and order needless equipment/tests /etc in effort more to boost THEIR profit lines while delivering LESS to those in need (note the outrageous profit margins and BONUS checks and how much used for LOBBYING to get FEWER restrictions which obstruct REAL healthcare availability/etc’s and so much more. Check you CC statements and such–find them MORE explanatory and any reign in on unexpected increases without NOTICE so you could be better informed in YOUR choices of which have/use/etc ? There were other measures that past and many who were/are/remain disgruntled that NOT MORE WAS ACCOMPLISHED …The JOB GROWTH whine? More JOBS DURING THE O years CREATED than the EIGHT years of BUSH yet lamented and “sold” elsewise and ignorred. FACT CHECKING does NOT seem to BE in fashion and emotions still running high. Indeed a WAKE UP CALL to the Dems and Independents and ALL….Bets are the WRONG WHINES will still be resonating and indeed, as game plans already in progress for 2012 and UNFETTERED GOBS OF MONEY from ALLOWED PRIVATE SOURCES…..The SELL OFF/OUT of America will be rachetted up and there IS opportunity to allow our destruction SEEMINGLY from WITHIN….that alone SHOULD rattle many ,not so sure enough have bothered to FACT CHECK or pay attention , some have NOT learned from past experience for sure and too many straws attempting to be grasped as we get thrust in a thrust from the past “considered” good ol’ times which were NOT ALL THAT good if any cared to dissect the factuals. Progress is ALWAYS a long tuff slog and we still have a long tuff slog ahead for sure just to even SURVIVE. THAT is the TRULY scary , discomforting part of all of this “game playing” going on and on and on when what we need is to REALLY get down to serious business of perfecting our “Union” and the actual GREATER COMMON GOOD for ALL not JUST the few.
    Am thankful the holudays and end of this year coming up rapidimente…need the diversionary relief such will provide and thensome !!
    ( one more , James ..this seems to be playing as a political novel but certainly provides us a REALITY show(case) for sure..Not so sure there will be great consensus, likely too much of the ndramatical nastinessings will proliferate –THAST is a sure turnoff and can NOT but help wonder if that IS part of the overall equation in play..turn off “enough” who WILL just throw up hands and walk away with a WHY BOTHER attitude leaving the “spoils to whichever/whoever” manipulates it best in the charade that gets paraded …find the older older , far more truly quite cynical thou desparately holing on to at least smidgeons of “hope” such as when younger found easy to believe things WOULD work out in the long run even with short term “disruptive interruptions”…certainly not that confident at this stage, but will stll cling to shard of base hope/hopefuls. As a country , we HAVE come so far, but we stil have a long way to go. A REAL reality check is in order…notusre it can be found on all menus at this point thou)

  376. These things are cyclical–remember how Wisconsin elected Joe McCarthy and then elected William Proxmire. It could have been far worse and we can thank the Tea Party and Sarah Palin for the fact that the Senate is still Democratic–candidates such as Angle and O’Donnell lost where their primary opponents would have succeeded. And we can offer the same thanks for Bennet in Colorado.

    We press on and we don’t allow ourselves to lose energy or focus.

  377. You are going on my FB today….I’m speechless! What were we thinking?

  378. Thank you, ladies! Your post is just what I needed. Humor is the salve that soothes the wounded. Thank goodness for your humor; it will see us through the worst of times, and I haven’t given up yet.

  379. Why thank you, Disparaged! Thank you very much. I enjoyed your comment, too – not just the compliment. :D

    Yes, Dawn!

    Engrady, you’r right but keep in mind that part of this is that there are just way too many people (especially younger people) who only vote in the presidential election cycles. They haven’t learned yet that the house and senate matter, perhaps MORE than the president. Part of the tide that churned is a factor of who failed to turn out and not just the impatient or visionless pseudo majority.

  380. SNL was running low on material.

  381. Enjoyable piece. It brought a smile to my sad face.

  382. Should I slit my wrist now!

  383. Delurkergurl, I always enjoy your comments, so please don’t stop!

    Oh Helen, did I tell you that you are wonderful, witty and I thank you in your completely right analysis of the idiots some of our electorate decided to either put into or return to power. How they could ‘forget’ the suffering we endured under Bush/Cheney for eight long years is beyond human understanding? We can only hope that the Teapublicans continue to spew their angry rants trying to take ‘their’ country back to days of antiquity. When the uneducated electorate see how ignorant they were to put these nuts into or back in power, it may be too late to save our nation. I hope not, but as our country suffers again under the policies they try to push through, [unless they continue to do nothing except obstruct], hopefully the ignorant will see their horrific mistake.

    They either need to return to school and learn American history or pay closer attention to the civics lessons we are forced to accept so they won’t continue making the same mistakes expecting a different result. We will never get back on the path we need to save our nation unless they open their eyes and realize their mistakes. But Helen, we can’t live without your assistance in keeping us informed. Thank you!

  384. Ok Boner, now you actually have to LEAD and not just say “hell no”.

    Heard a comment from “lady on the street” in Los Angeles. She said they spend billions saying mean nasty lies about each other. THey could have bought me a car, and I would have listened. LMAO!

  385. Never underestimate the absolute stupidity of the American electorate. When given the opportunity to give some muscle to a vision they said Yes to only 2 years ago, the electorate returns the money-grubbing whores to Washington because change didn’t come overnight. Well, drop your britches, America, and bend over because you are about to get just what you asked for.

  386. Your writing is encouraging in a morning when the headlines are not – wait, maybe not so bad – Obama is still president, and Congress is still functional though soulless. Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are still on TV and you are still on the web! If we stick around, like Mn weather, things will change! Please keep on writing. We need it frequently.

  387. Thanks God ( or whoever) there are still some healthy minded Americans left !
    I thought already they were all homesick for Bush !

  388. Tom Degan, I don’t think I’ve seen you here before. Welcome. I just checked out your blog, liked it, and subscribed.

    Lots of other new faces here, too. Good to see you! Trolls serve no purpose but the naysayers just prove Helen’s points. The more on target her points, the more intense the reaction!

  389. You are spot on when you say the country has the attention span of a gnat. I’d go for something ever smaller than that.

  390. ahhhhhhhhh – how refreshing this morning – common sense and rational thinking. Love this blog-

  391. Palin was, thankfully, shot down here in CA. Dems won most of the big races.
    Helen, great post as always.
    I’m going to get my pie and watch the parade for the World Series Champs SF Giants.
    Hang tough everyone, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

  392. Oh happy day, indeed. I was disappointed in the election results in my state, but not at all surprised. Intellect and integrity doesn’t matter as much here as having the right letter after your name. It only goes to show how far rhetoric and discontent can solidify a base. Now we’ll see if any can deliver on their promises. I won’t be holding my breath. Glad I voted and encouraged others to do the same. Sorry I couldn’t impart any wisdom or reason to most. Life is a mixed bag. It has been quite an education.

  393. Beautiful! Thank you so much for that one, ladies. That was a piece which should be etched in stone!

    All the best,

    Tom Degan



  394. You can get a load of BS over-night.
    Real change takes time and patience.

  395. Helen – your new post is a ray of sunshine in an otherwise gloomy morning!However we did win in California’s Gov race and ahead in the Senate race. Those two ladies gave me a stomachache! Let’s se what the REpugs can do now.

  396. Congratulations, Senator Bennet. Good job, CO!

  397. Yes, Agent Orange is on the job. God help us all.

    Fellow Dems, remember that the GOP made a huge issue of blaming the Democratic House during the last two years of the Bush administration. When they don’t pull us out of this and start blaming Obama, even though they have the House, feel free to point out their hypocrisy.

  398. Great post!
    Carl Paladino was not elected.
    All republicans will have palin and fox news to report to. Lets see what they can get done and when they don’t deliver what they promised?
    Well 2012 is around the corner.
    I know attention spans are short(how could they have voted for a tea party republican ???) but let the republicans try to take back health care and take Social security.
    Let the fun begin!!

  399. THis is exactly what I needed to read this morning. Thank you.

    And now I’m going to eat some pie.

  400. Here’s my problem with politics and government. Throwing out the party in power and replacing them with the other party won’t get me what I want in government. It will get me more of the same!

    Also, I think you’re awesome.

  401. [...] Margaret and Helen talk about the election results Sarah Palin has a clear path to the Presidency in 2012… which means we’ll have another presidential election in 2014 when she quits. [...]

  402. Helen, you are simply the best.

  403. country with attention span of a gnat… Palin quits mid-term… politician heal thyself…

    Helen, you are a national treasure.

    I mean it. Really.

  404. Nana, stay off my computer and go bake something.

  405. when I was a teenager back in the late 1930s and FDRwas in the White House and he was trying to get through”Old age pensione”>>that;s what it was called before it was Social Security,,my Aunts Mother..Mrs Ivy Bassfo Hubbard texas hated Roosevelt and she said your generation will be paying for this Old age pension.stuff Wellbedidand now we are the beneficeerries of Old age pension..Socail Security. The people tha cast votes in this election they do not realize that one generation stands on the shoulder of the prreceedding generation..And the Republic goes on…Ben Franklin said it best..:All we can be sure of is death and taxes>” I Believethose that make more pay more…that is what the founding fathers wwrote..Maaybe thes Tea parties should read that document that they talk about but know nothing about..I am 87 now and I have seen a lot ..This election was not about taxes, or our healt care policy that wont go into effect for another 4 years..or anything tthey have been bellu aceing aobut..it is nothingg but a complexion problem..they don’t like the complexion ofthe guy in the White House..and that is it in a nut shell..There I ahve said it and I hopeyou read this..Sincerely Idaleene Scheu Fuqua.

  406. Serafina…stay off my computer and get my shirts done!

  407. You blog is good to be reading. You are of much intellect for the age you are. Great respect for you nice lady.

  408. Amen. And now I cry or move to France. It’s not a bad place really. France that is. Great food and a month off each year, plus the long lunch hours. Wine, great food and naps every day. Sounds like my kind of place.

  409. Brilliant!

  410. As always Helen, you’re the voice of reason and reality. Thanks for another great post. Well, the Republican cry babies got their wish last night. I once heard somebody say, “Be careul what you ask for….” The next two years will be very interesting. Let’s see how many jobs they create, if they can end the war, deal with the immigration issue; balance the budget, grow the economy, etc…And they only have two years to do it, so they better get started right away….

  411. Thank you, Helen!

  412. Condolences to Mitch McConnell. He will have to work with Rand Paul, the ersatz board certified eye “doctor”.

    Condolences also to Mr. Boehner as he will be in the same situation with the House versions of Rand Paul.

    Now for the turn around. Congratulations to Lisa Murkowski. Right now it looks as if she did a real number on SP.

    Margaret and Helen, you are absolutely right! Things turn out very slowly in politics, especially if a Republican House works at the same speed they did under George “Tarp” Bush. As I recall House offices functioned only about 3 days a week and long weekends were the order of the day.

    Next item: which R’s and TP’s elected yesterday have recall written all over them?

  413. HRH sofia EQ, good point!

  414. Thank you so much for your perspective. I was feeling a little down (I’m in Florida, still not sure if that crook is going to be our governor) but now I’m going to think positive and go have some pie.

    You really should write a book, ladies.

  415. Oh, Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for your much needed voice today. I’ve been a “lurker”, since my son sent your site to moi. My DH is pretty much not speaking to me (and likewise) over this election…well except for a brief verbal skirmish this morning because I favored Reid over that ridiculous Angle.

    Do please keep posting as much as you are able. “Live long and prosper”.

  416. I thank the Tea people! They saved our Senate! Sending kisses and huggs their way!

  417. Great Post Helen!

    (James…really, sir, nobody cares…get your own blog.)

  418. [...] always a good day when Margaret or Helen post. Oh Happy Day! “If there is one thing we learned last night, it is not that Americans are mad at their [...]

  419. I hope those who voted in the ‘just plain people’ get what they voted for … if career pols cant get things passed .. and all those promises, I kept asking and still havent got an answer, how do they plan to get what they promised accomplished?

  420. Yep, should be an interesting two years. The people who sent the Tea Party to Washington are going to find out what exactly these loonies have in mind. Of course, they could have found out before yesterday – if they’d tried.

    Back to government by the corporations, for the corporations. Not in my best interest, how about yours?

    Giving up? Hell, no – we’re Americans (in spite of what the other side claims).

  421. I love the smell of vindication in the morning. It smells like–victory.

    We campaigned hard against the leader of the group suing us, and she lost the election for board of supervisors. She might have lost anyway, but it is satisfying.

    This election illustrates several truths Democrats and some Tea Party groups should have noticed. The country with local variations is still center right. Obama was still too inexperienced to judge what the voters wanted, and he miscalculated.

    The Tea Party and Sarah Palin are important political powers today. The 1994 insurrection against Clinton was an inside job done by several Republican office holders. This revolt was an outside job. It also comes close to being dominated by women. This to me, is a bigger deal with unknown ramifications.

    Bill Clinton used the 1994 Congressional defeat to his advantage and shifted toward the middle with resultant success. Obama can too. If the Republicans over play their hand, he will now have a foil to blame. Both sides had better work together to help solve our problems, or this will happen again.

    The Tea Party winners are political novices, and they will clash with established Republican politicians who are used to compromise. They are all on a tight leash. The Democrats are in danger because if everything goes according to plan, the Senate may go Republican next time.

    Republicans gained about 17 governors and I don’t know how many state houses. This will help the party during gerrymandering.

    I agree with delurkergurl and Lori. This will be an interesting two years and could turn out to be a reality show fit to be a political novel.

  422. Yes, thank goodness government works slowly. Unfortunately, most of us Boomers will be dead before things get better. Not what we expected after the gains following the turmoil of the 60s and 70s.

  423. Thank you Helen, I only disagree with your assessment of the attention span of the gnat. You said “It’s been put on notice that American’s have the attention span of a gnat.” I guess you’ve never noticed how very persistent gnats are. I’ve always found they are very single minded and don’t give up until you slap them.

  424. 3.7 million hits and growing. Go Margaret and Helen!

  425. Helen-
    We’re not done here yet.
    We may have made history…
    We may have slapped whatzername down by slapping her TP pick down in her home state AND will be sending the 2nd write-in win to DC in US Senate history.
    Not WHO I wanted, but WHAT I wanted
    Gonna be a rollicking couple of weeks here.
    Proud to have worked on the campign for one of the finest candidates to come along in my lifetime and we’ll be having him back- you betcha!
    Til then gonna stock up on popcorn and watch what Americans have done to shoot themselves in the foot… yet again…
    And keep an eye out for folks who will need help while the posturing and foolishness ratchets up.
    In the end it’s about everyday people and how all this really affects their lives even though there are plenty who want to think it’s about right makes right and all that silly crap.
    Go Helen!!!!

  426. Those Palin girls need to just put corks in their who who’s and try ice fishing for a change.

  427. Thank you, Helen! I really needed that. At least the Republicans actually have to take part in the actual government now, since they took the House yesterday. What will they do when they can’t just blame the Democrats? Should be fun to watch, anyway—there are some slow learners in that new bunch.


  429. Just brilliant, Ladies.

  430. Great job, Helen! Let the circus begin!

    In all I think it’s pretty good news, considering it was pretty much a given 2 years ago that the progressive enthusiasm was unsustainably high. This isn’t a referendum on the progressive agenda. It’s impatience. The GOP can have their victory lap but then guess what? They have to actually DO something. And they’ll have to do it with the cooperation of people they’ve been obstructing and crapping on for 2 years. Certainly not very forward thinking of them, eh? And now they have to cut unnecessary spending on frivolous things like social security. I wonder how many older folks who can no longer afford the cat food diet will think all that “reign in spending and cut taxes” stuff is so grand?

    I’m actually feeling a little excited about the entertainment value of the next 2 years. Too bad it’s at the expense of progress but there are hard lessons to be learned on both sides.

    They said they wanted to take their country back. We want to take it forward, so this back-taking is going to be a tough fight! Ready? I am!

  431. No one said progress was easy…

    Never give up! All we lost was the House!

    We have the Senate and the White House!

    Lets geter’ done!

    Helen, you are a SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!

  433. Thanks for that, Helen! I’m still feeling depresses over my home state’s failure to re-elect the fantastic Russ Feingold. What were they thinking? Oh, I guess they weren’t :-( At least we still have your wit and wisdom!

    Thank you!

  434. Helen Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  435. My sentiments exactly, Helen. I’m glad you’re blogging and that a lot of people read it. I’m hoping for Obama’s veto pen. Let’s see if he uses it.

  436. Helen-I am ashamed I removed my ‘Yes we did’ sticked from my car. My state of Florida is now redder than red and have to say I am worried about vandals.
    I have taken a deep breath over this change and hope that things get better over time. I am proud of my President and his attempts to share his vision for our country. We will just have to wait and see.
    Great article as usual!

  437. I love your blog and your attitude. I really needed something like your post this morning. It’s tough to be positive with the newly elected crop of politicians…especially here (I live in Florida). Your post helped a little.

  438. Helen, that is great. Of course that is why the sun is shining this morning even though it’s cold as heck. In a sence that’s the way Palin is: sunny on the outside and cold to the core.

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