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Posted by: Helen Philpot | September 23, 2009

Michele Bachmann’s wheel is still spinning, but the hamster is dead.

Margaret, I know it has been a few years since we last made the trip across the pond, but I was wondering if  anyone is still alive in Europe?   I watched a little bit of Fox News this weekend and I’m afraid everyone in Europe might have died from lack of access to healthcare.  What a shame.  They had such delicious food and beautiful art.

I am not sure when it happened but the base of the Republican party either got lazy or stupid or both… or maybe they always were.   It took me only a few minutes of research on the internet to learn that America spends more on healthcare than any other wealthy nation and yet we don’t live longer or have better health outcomes. So unless we just enjoy making health insurance companies rich, all those tea party morons  need to use the internet for something other than ordering their penis enhancement pills.

Exactly how expensive does healthcare have to get before we decide to have an honest, meaningful conversation about this?   Rush is out there talking about how this will keep you from getting your next raise.  I’ve got news for you Rush.  Maybe not for you, but for the rest of the world it already has.  Sixty-two percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses and almost all of those individuals had health insurance. About 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs.  Over the last few years, health insurance costs for small businesses have increased by over 100%.

But let’s not get lost in the numbers.  What we are talking about here is access to healthcare.  We are talking about mothers and fathers losing their homes and their life savings trying to save their children.  We are talking about families helping a loved one to fight cancer.  We are talking about  people suffering with diabetes, asthma and AIDS.   We are not talking about death panels and for God’s sakes we are not talking about Nazi Germany.  We are talking about tending to the sick and the poor… does that sound familiar to anyone?  You Value Voters out there claim to read the Bible.  Maybe you should crack the cover on that one again.  You are so damn worried about who is marrying who and what immigrant is getting the best shift at the Taco Bell, but God forbid someone’s suffering doesn’t come with a price tag…

Honestly,  if I could , I would put the entire Republic party over my knee and give them a good spanking.  What does it say about our country if the biggest debate of the decade is no longer about the two wars we are fighting but rather about preventing children and families from having access to affordable healthcare?  I’ll tell you what it says to me.  It says the Christian Right never really was and Value Voters aren’t very valuable.

Let me spell it out for you:

Sarah Palin is worried about death squads.  I think  she should spend a little more time worrying about getting at least one child into college.

Rush Limbaugh is worried about Socialism.  That’s a big word for a college drop out, but isn’t it  nice when such a wealthy person shows so much concern for poor little us.  I wonder if he’ll spend a little of his $400 million contract and write you ditto heads  a check when you can’t afford your hospital bills.

Dick Cheney has had four heat attacks.  He underwent four-vessel coronary artery bypass grafting in 1988, coronary artery stenting in November 1994, and urgent coronary balloon angioplasty in December 1994.  He has been treated for popliteal artery aneurysms, deep-vein thrombosis, atrial fibrillation, and most recently back problems.  I wonder what his out-of-pocket expenses were.  I wonder if he even cares?

Universal Healthcare in the wealthiest country on earth should have been a no brainer.  And speaking of a no brainer…

Michele Bachman thinks healthcare reform is unconstitutional.   I think Michelle Bachmann is as nutty as a fruit cake.  Or as we say down here in Texas – Michele is one taco short of a combo plate.  She is a few fries short of a happy meal.  Her elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top floor.   Her cord is too short to reach the outlet.  The wheel might be spinning but the hamster is dead. 

That woman just isn’t right in the head.   I mean it. Really.

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  8. Where has everyone gone?

  9. Ok, this is getting weird now, I am young and is this what I have to look forward to?

  10. Yes, me too, i recently spent many hours at a hospital with total overcrowding till I went home thinking it was easier to die in peace

  11. Whilst I am here can I have my grumble too. I had chest pains one morning and eventually in the afternoon went to the local hospital. I sat waiting for
    8 hrs to see a doctor till it was so cold I had to go home, They never even brought me a blanket. I am still alive , so am not a stastic.

  12. Have to concur with Kellie here, our health system in Queensland is in crisis, besides people dying in waiting for medical care, hospital staff payments are in crisis, staff are not been paid.

  13. Have to concur with Kellie here, our health system in Queensland is in crisis, besides people dying in waiting for medical care, hospital staff payments are in crisis, staff are not been paid.

  14. Hi from Australia. I dont think you guys are on your own. Our health system is in overload and needless deaths are an everyday occurrence. The Pollies say have it under control ??????

  15. Ha ha, good comeback

  16. Is it possible that after surviving 6 heart attacks some credit must be due to our health care system?

  17. Is it possible that after surviving 6 heart attacks some credit must be due yo our health care system?

  18. Yes there is something seriously wrong with our health care system; Dick Cheney has now had six heart attacks – and he’s not dead yet.

  19. If your in support of the Pro-life movement, then come join the pact at http://www.prolifepact.com/jointhepact.htm We are looking to gain millions worldwide to join this pact for outlawing abortion!

  20. I know it’s late to be commenting. I’m Canadian, and SO glad Americans are getting health care.

    Our health care system is funded province by province. In British Columbia, we each pay a small monthly premium. AND it’s partially funded by the sales of Lotto tickets. I think this is brilliant. It’s a lottery everyone wins.

  21. электрошокер

  22. You rock!

  23. My fellow M&H peps here is a link which will allow you to become apart of the process… Please take a peek and participate in the survey… ;-) It’s kinda fun AND important… Tha ks in advance…


  24. Pamela, please email me at ccmalloy@yahoo.com.
    I don’t know how to contact you otherwise, thought I could click on your name and connect to your email, but it doesn’t work that way.

  25. Anonymous on October 29, 2009
    at 7:39 PM

    Are you always this impolite? Or is it the anonymity that causes you to behave so poorly?

  26. Hi gang, jsri, Imaginista and Sistah Sally,

    jsri, please don’t throw in the towel on this blog. You have made some valuable contributions with your wisdom and insights. I hope you will continue. I’ll never forget Orally Titz!

    Imaginista, on the advice of Poolman, I went to your site. I don’t very often go to links or sites, partly because of time constraints and also I have difficulty getting back onto where I was in the comments. Anybody else have that problem? I chalk it up to over a month’s comments since the last post from Helen.

    The point is, Imaginista, your images are BEAUTIFUL!!!!! You have a real talent and flair for choosing just the right subject matter. Naturally I was drawn to your Kauai works. You captured them quite accurately.

    Sistah Sally, welcome back! You were missed. Are we rich yet?

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  27. “Launching in 2010, online magazine Whisper n Thunder will share the stories of the indigenous people of America. Through history, family stories, profiles of courage and current events that we must address, we will share truth.

    History has neither been kind nor accurate. We intend to change that.”


  28. JJ and Tine, I think that’s anti-james.

    ImaginistaΔ, SIL is my son-in-law, and he is familiar with the Coronado Cafe. He has some friends that live in the area. He is unfamiliar with the Burning Bush Drum Circle, although now is intriged. He does art and also is a tattoo artist. His name is Carlos Villegas. My avatar is his youngest son and looks like just like him.

  29. IMO only rude, cowardly “anonymous” people are jackasses.

  30. Anon: You certainly could use that recipe!

  31. Maybe Pamela has a natural remedy for being a total jackass.

  32. KitKat: I heard it on NPR last week near Seattle, WA.
    I think the fellow wrote a book about the historical perspective of seafood. I just looked on NPR but did not see anything that looked close to it.

    It was quite interesting though. We do need to consider what we put into our bodies.

    I like seafood so if there is a reason for eating it is OK with me.

  33. JuneauJoe, I’d be interested to know who was talking, his sources, and what kind of time period he is talking about for the decrease in brain size. Most of the info I read tells that once we started to domesticate plants and animals, roughly 10,000 years ago depending on the area, humans started to become more gracile and smaller overall. The brain would follow suit. I haven’t read anything about the body getting larger. One really good example of decreasing body size is the fact that we get impacted wisdom teeth, overcrowding, and malocclusion of the teeth. This is because there isn’t enough room for the teeth. Prior to domestication, there was no problem with all the teeth fitting in the mouth just fine.

  34. Where’s Helen? Where’s Margaret? Matthew, please let us know that it is just computer problems and send us a note that everything is alright!

    Haven’t had time to read through the over 1,000 comments, just the last few.

    Natural medicine – my favorite!

    For the real herbal remedies, go to HerbDoc.com. It is the website for Dr. Richard Schulze’s American Botanical Company. GOOD stuff from real herbs – I highly recommend the anti infection formula for cuts (stings like crazy but never gets infected), lobelia (queen of herbs), and intestinal formulas.

    Hope everyone is well. I am neck deep in Rich Dad stuff – getting my financial education and off my butt!


  35. I heard this fellow talking about seafood and the brain. It was quite interesting.

    Historcally, Native peoples followed the water to move to new locations: Over the land bridge and such thousands and even millions of years ago. They were by water and ate fish and shellfish from the water. The fellows point was that seafood and shellfish is brain food and we do not eat enough of it.

    He said another scary thing is that the brain is getting smaller in mass but the bodies are getting larger. the brain size to body ratio is something which should be a concern in his mind.

  36. It is a big enough subject to draw its own following don’t you think Raji? I do, just from what I’ve seen on this blog, and of course if someone interested in the subject were to Google alternative health options or some such thing, voila, they would be directed right to that blog.

  37. M & H : Please come back. The rats are eating each other.

  38. no one’s puppet, I see your point but what is the difference between discussing alternative treatments or trading recipes during this lag in M&H’s blog. I think we are filling in space as we wait.

    jsri, as I told Pamela, please don’t over react (I actually said don’t get your panties in a wad). No one is attacking you for your opinions.

    I will make a reference to the overuse of zinc. Those of us who are members of the “gummy club” which refers to dentures and have to use dental adhesives are getting an overdose of zinc.
    My dentist just recommended another product as I told him I had lost my sense of taste. Hopefully it will come back.

    Hopefully Helen will come back soon also.

  39. Claire, send me an email…. I’d love it!

    jsri, you mislead folks and it seems you could at least be honest about it, but then your rebuttal is a bit dishonest too. Your lie had nothing to do with the “increase by ten fold in iatrogenic deaths if we closed all the hospitals and fired all the MDs”, as you suggested.

    You mislead (or lied to) folks when you told them Zicam was a contaminated and dangerous product when Zicam is not a product but a brand and there are seventeen products by Zicam that have nothing to do with any negative claims…. but you know what, I’m done with this too. I thought you’d cop to what you did but I can see you ain’t gonna no matter what.

    Anonymous, whatever….

  40. There appears to be a genuine need for a blog where people can ask questions and explore alternative treatments. More than a few regular contributors have a litany of aches, pains, and illnesses, I know I am going to get in trouble here folks, but I question rather M&H blog is the appropriate site? Maybe this down time would be a good time to discuss setting up a blog specifically for health and wellness issues.

  41. Delurker–you know she’ll file for reconsideration or something like that. I’m home from work after some minor surgery and watching breathlessly for her reaction.

  42. FWIW, Jsri and Pamela, your lively exchange has had no effect whatsoever on my opinion of either of you. Still think you’re both groovy. I’m not seeing any pariahs around here except those few pains-in-the-arses whose repugnance we can *all* agree on.

  43. Donna, you beat me to the Orly smackdown scoop! I’ll get you next time!

    I’m not sure what to say about demonic Halloween candy:


    Being against Halloween is one thing, but it seems a stretch to say “most of the candy sold during this season has been dedicated and prayed over by witches” and the article gets more interesting from there.

  44. Make that

    I NOW am wondering…

    silly typos.

  45. Thank you, Poolman! Right now the only place we have our work is at the Coronado Cafe (7th St and Monte Vista), it is an exhibition of black and whites in Paris.

    I love First Fridays – after gallery hopping we always end up at the Burning Bush Drum Circle (drums provided for everyone!) where, besides the drumming, there are fire spinners, belly dancers, digeridoo players. It’s a spectacle and so much fun.

    I am glad it is cooler, but I am most happy when it is about 90/60. It was COLD this morning!

    Who is your sister, I know am wondering! Maybe I am familiar!

  46. Are Turmeric and Curcamin the same? I take a Turmeric supplement for inflammation.

  47. Maybe Pamela has a remedy for her thin skin.

  48. ImaginistaΔ,

    I went to your site and enjoyed the beautiful photographic images, etc. Do you have anything in any local studios? Just curious. My SIL is a local artist and knows many local artists and gets involved in some of the downtown art things. How are you liking this nice cool weather? About time, eh? :grin:

  49. Pamela, I was interested to read your recommendation for Curcamin. We will definitely try that out for joint pain. My partner has polymyalgia and rejected using the steroid therapy the rheumatologist wanted her to use.

    We have found great prices for supplements through Swanson Vitamins. They have a website.

  50. Time out folks!

    Been away attending to family business for a few days and upon return find I have been accused of every nefarious scheme short of axe murder. I hope I will be allowed to set the record straight.

    It all started when I saw the word Zicam in a recommendation about cold remedies here on the H&M website. All I knew about Zicam at the time was that it was a product I had seen advertised on TV and I also knew that a few years ago, there seemed to be an association between the product and loss of smell for some people. Then, last September, there was an FDA recall of the product. FDA Recall Letter: http://salaswildthoughts.blogspot.com/2009/06/zicam-recall-fda-warns-zicam-side.html The recall letter set off a firestorm of complaints from Zicam users as well as additional charges from individuals who began to associate their own loss of smell with their use of Zicam. Of course, lawyers jumped into this like a toddler into the mud.

    Several fiery blogs appeared with comments and counter comments between Zicam users and Zicam accusers. Two things became quickly apparent, 1.) Zicam userss have an almost cult like attachment to the product, and 2.) Zicam users were either hostile or indifferent to those who were negatively affected by its use. It was against that background that I expressed a need for caution on the H&M site by anyone thinking about using the product. Almost immediately, I became a pariah and it has been all downhill from there.

    Some of the charges are interesting though way off the mark. When I made a comment that I had no vested financial interest in whether a product wins or loses, I regret that I didn’t make it clearer that I meant all products because that comment was used to accuse me of being in the pocket of Big Pharma. Nothing could be more divorced from the truth. I have great disdain for Big Pharma and consider it a singular example of the institutional greed that I face every month when we buy our meds. And the accusation that I deliberately lied by giving a false figure regarding the possible increase in the number of deaths that would occur if all MD’s and Hospitals were to disappear is laughable. Sadly, someone failed to recognize it as a wild and exaggerated guesstimate and took it for a “fact”. In truth, iatrogenic death reports vary all over the lot. Some are much higher than the figure in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis some are lower. It is one of the most difficult figures to get a real handle on and varies from country to country, from survey to survey and from lawyer to lawyer.

    Finally, neither I nor any members of my family have had anything that equates to a success in the use of natural products. Unfortunately that is our history and whether or not some people disapprove of it is too bad. That’s our reality and is just the way life fall sometimes.

    I’m not about to address all the distortions leveled on me. It is just a waste of time. But unless or until H&M come up with a new topic, I’m out of here for the final time.

  51. Pamela, would love to get in touch w. you if you are in the ATL area.
    Orly Taitz=yet another embarassment for GA!

  52. Tony is 6. No worries — I think he has a pretty face too, and as I said, being called “pretty” wouldn’t bother him a bit. He has no silly notions about gender roles. Even if it *did* bother him, he would just show off one of his board-breaking Tae Kwon Do kicks to assert himself. :)

  53. Delurker? You out there? The latest Orly Taitz suit just got dismissed–another smackdown on her integrity and competence.

  54. Tine, My, is my face red. My apologies to Tony. I have no problem calling him “handsome” though. How old is he? For some reason, I thought you had 2 little girls. Have a great day!!!

  55. OK, I need some help folks. If any of you computer geeks have benefited from any of the things I’ve put out there, would you consider giving me the benefit of your brillant and oh so very enviable minds? I am CLUELESS when it comes to technology and I’m afraid I’m going to need a new computer rather quickly here and don’t know where to begin.

    I currently have an apple ibook g4 OS X 10.4.11 with 1.2 GHz Processor and 512 MB memory and it’s getting slower and more disgruntled as we speak (well, its really me that’s getting disgruntled but… ). It determines for itself when I can watch hulu.com and I’m beginning to feel like an abused child with all its pevish ploys to piss me off.

    I think I’d like to get something unMac and then maybe get this one refurbished as I do love it still soooo…. and so I want something, inexpensive please, that lets me watch hulu without a bunch of irritating sound to visual delays, that would let me do power point presentations and that will last me more than 3 years…. is that too much to ask?

    Oh, and I’m computer illiterate…. did I mention that already? Is it possible to get one from Overstock.com? Cause it truly annoys me when I find I’ve paid twice as much for something than I had to and well, I’m just asking here????

  56. Helen!
    Where are you? It’s been more than a month and we miss you.

  57. MiKat,

    I’m not a fan of GNC, as they mostly carry just their ‘stuff’ and they appear to have profit margin rather than highest quality as their primary motivating force.

    I’ve muscle tested my patients on GNC products they bring in and nine times out of ten, they go weak with them. Kinesiology is my method of letting the patients body tell us both what works for them.

    Find a natural foods store and tell them what you’re looking for. The things I’ve told folks about here are readily available in health food stores, and they are very basic and very safe.

    But understand that they are not what I go to when I’m needing something for myself or for my patients, as I carry professional medical grade products that are not available in health food stores or drug stores.

    I make specific formulas for patients using five times concentrated herbal powders from my herbal pharmacy of more than 1,200 herbal powders, and do formulas for everything you can imagine that treat the whole person at once.

    This is a common way of practicing in Chinese medicine, though some doctors of acupuncture and herbology use the raw herbs (which you have to cook into a tea every third day and they do stink up a whole house!!) or use alcohol extract tinctures, which I find bitter. There are many of us out there who are highly trained in this medicine and I wish you a most positive and healing journey. It will change your life if you let it.

    Enough, I gotta run!

  58. Pamela,
    Where might I find these wonderful natural medicines you have all been talking about? There are plenty of GMC and “Natural” drug stores around. I was just wondering if I can find them there or do I have to have a prescription from an Herbalist or an ND?

    I am making quite a list of things I would like to pick up. I suffer from arthritic hands and as I make my living working at the computer it is a daily issue. My mother has terrible arthritic hips, but refuses to take anything. She might be far more interested in a natural pain medicine.

    I have learned so much from all of you wonderful people. I am so happy to be a member of the “family” here on Helen’s porch!

  59. Speaking of Faith
    with Krista Tippett:

    The Power of Eckhart Tolle’s ‘Now’

    The interview is actually
    a repeat from 8/14/08.

    PEACE ~ Δ

  60. Sunshine, now I have the case of the giggles.

    I see you noticed my fleeting avatar change. I briefly had my son Tony’s pic up, then changed it back to myself.

    Tony is quite secure in his masculinity and would be delighted that you called him “pretty.” :)

  61. Tine, your older little girl? She is very pretty too.

  62. LOL, Tine: I can see how jealousy and envy could create a streak of rage, not in the least dampened by her oh so tolerant deliberations…. no mean feat if you still have your radio to listen to. Maybe that’s what had Tolle giggling… yep, he definitely was.

    MiKat, my apologies, I think I addressed you as kitkat several times.

    Our pres was up and out early this morning, respecting our fallen soldiers. I don’t know the best way to extract ourselves from this fray but I read this week that, with international forces, we outnumber Al Queda in Afghanistan by 20 to 1, so its hard to imagine that sending more troops is going to help and when you consider how our very presence there fuels the hatred of us infidels and increases the numbers joining Al Queda, how can we turn this into something positive?

  63. Margaret and Helen,
    I sure hope one of you is having a passionate affair, and while you might be discussing it, you prefer to keep it quiet and avoid a scandal. Love you both, even if you posted everyday it wouldn’t be too much for me.

  64. Pamela: I heard that Eckhart Tolle interview too. It was an interesting program. And was it just me, or did Tolle seem to have a case of the giggles?

    I have a one-sided love/hate relationship with Krista Tippett. On the one hand, I think her show is great. So intelligent and enlightening, and always bringing people together rather than pushing them apart.

    But that super-sweet, oh-so-deliberate voice she uses drives me nuts! Oh, and did I mention that I covet her job? Between the voice and the jealousy, sometimes I want to punch the radio. ;)

  65. Poolman, I know where you are coming from. In my world I found the more I charged for a riding lesson, people thought I was good.. If I tried to give away my expertise they weren’t interested. I always tried to give kids a break but the parents would look for the high dollar person. I am excellent at what I do and would love to volunteer more of my time and knowledge now that I am retired.
    As you said ” you can lead a horse to water”

    Pamela, no problem ;-) I do not take Tylenol and have been on some form or another of tumeric/curry for a long time. Lately I have been getting good results from Resveratrol along with a product called Mega Flex by Designing Health. I think each person has to find out what works for them. I apparently cannot tolerate a lot of the natural supplements or chemicals that others can so it becomes trial by error.

  66. Ok gang, I’m pissed to a fare-thee-well. There’s big trouble in Paradise! Here’s a Hawaiian rant but it’s probably not too uncommon throughout the country.

    We all know we are living with a struggling economy. Hawaii is no exception. Our entire economic life-blood is tourism. It is expensive to even get here by plane or ship so visitors are not coming for vacations or conventions in the numbers we are used to. Naturally, tax revenues are way down and the state is having a tough time with the budget.

    We have a Republican governor, Linda Lingle. She is relatively innocuous, certainly not as obnoxious as Sarah Palin or a Michele Bachman but she does toe the Republican ideological party line.

    We have a primarily Democratic Legislature. Of course, they don’t see eye-to-eye with the governor very well. Hawaii is a small state so the jobs of the legislators are only part-time. They did manage to vote themselves a 37% salary increase in June though.

    I don’t fully understand all the details, which would be way too lengthy to go into here anyway. The upshot is that it was decided to ‘furlough’ state and county employees on Fridays without pay to save ‘the taxpayers’ money’. This applied to public school teachers as well. Which means the kids will not be in school on Fridays for SEVENTEEN WEEKS this school year. That reduces the number of school days from 180 to 163, now the lowest number in the country. The achievement test scores of Hawaiian public school are already in the bottom tier of the nation as it is.

    You can just imagine the justified outrage going on out here. This is not counting the working parents who have to scramble to find someone to look after their kids on Fridays now. There is talk of calling a special session of the legislature to address the problem, possibly raiding the hurricane fund or the rainy-day fund or raise taxes to come up with the money for the schools. The governor is the only one with the authority to call a special session unless a certain number of the senators sign on to override the governor’s decision NOT to call a special session. So you can see, it’s a huge mess.

    Here’s the kicker. You won’t believe it but I saw and heard her on TV with my own eyes and ears. Governor Lingle said the solution is a State Constitutional Amendment to give the governor the power to hire and fire the School Superintendent.

    That’ll fix it and get the kids and teachers back in the classrooms by next Friday.

    The dumbing down of America continues.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  67. Good to see you Poolman and yes, you and I do have that and more in common. I’m fine, now. Have you read “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle (? sp)? Krista Tippett of Speaking of Faith was interviewing him 2 Sundays ago and so I have been rereading this book, which has some powerful points for letting go of whatever we find ourselves stuck in. Good to have techniques when the muck gets thick.

    I give away a lot too, as I know how folks are struggling in this economy. I make a living and I’m happy doing what I do and I never turn anyone away. Maybe one day I’ll retire and just travel the country volunteering what I do…. a have hands will travel van!!! That’s a life I could live with.

  68. Pamela Δ, don’t stress over it. I am continually trying to share my areas of expertise and knowledge with others. Some of us are that way – here to help others and share. No monetary motivation for it, just a desire to help. Some can’t understand that.

    As the old saying goes: “you can lead a horse to water…”

    Some will appreciate the advice, some will ignore it, others will assume you have an angle. I often end up giving away more than I should, but that is just me.

    There is an interesting observation that I have noted over the years. The people that I charge the most for my services actually are the most satisfied. When I give it away, I get the most grief. Just an interesting observation, no real point.

    I sure hope Helen and Margaret and Matthew were not visited by those rumored black helicopters. They may be on Cheney’s sh*t list.

  69. Raji, I evidently can’t help myself…. I apologize as I did say that I wasn’t going to offer up any more remedies unless someone requested them and you did not. Please forgive me and understand that it is partly being raised a Southern girl and then its something a bit more but I can’t seem to not offer up things I believe will help. It’s a bad habit and I will try to get some control over it.

  70. Got it, Raji…. Arnica is great and also hypericum for the nerve damage! So many wonders in homeopathic medicine. I do hear what you’re saying, its just that when people purposely mislead, it burns me…….. Have you tried Curcamin for the hip pain? Works way better than Tylenol and is so much better than safe, its’ actually good for the liver, and the rest of the body.

    I work closely with doctors as well and truly appreciate what they bring to the table as they appreciate what I bring.

  71. Pamela, don’t take this wrong but please do not get your “panties in a wad” when others attack alternative medicine. You are apparently well educated and are expressing the importance of researching practitioners of alternative medicine.
    We should all also research the main stream practitioners of western medicine. Too many doctors today do nothing but test and do not look at the person as a whole. When did you last have a doctor who actually touched you except for your Ob-gyn?
    It is nothing but test, test or do more testing! No wonder we are all looking for alternatives.
    I have been involved in the medical world for more years than I wish to count. However, as I aged I did not want to end up like my geriatric friends who spend their life going from Doctor to Doctor swallowing numerous amounts of medicine so I reached out to complementary/alternative and yes there is a place for them in your health.
    I have surrounded myself with what I consider my health care providers and it includes both and they refer to each other. For example, recently my dentist pulled numerous teeth and told me to take arnica on the hour. Two hours later, no pain and no bleeding with only .2 cc. of lidocaine (Not 2 cc’s but .2)
    I am now dealing with advance arthritis in my hip and back. I am seeing a therapist who practices zero balancing, trigger point therapy, etc. but who also works with a medical professional. We are making progress without surgery or steroids. Yes, pain medication or steroids might have made this process a little more pleasant but I didn’t want the chemicals in my body.
    Every one has to make their own decision about their health.
    If I fall off the horse and break my hip, am I going to take a dose of arnica? Heck no! I’m going to pray 911 gets there soon. My goal is to keep the path ways open in my body so Mother Nature can heal as the body was intended to do.
    There is no one right way and it is up to each of us to be in charge of our health.

  72. kitkat: you may email me at acudocpam@gmail.com. I know what you mean about learning at the feet of the Masters. I have learned much from the folks here and regardless of this bit of annoyance with jsri, I am most appreciative of his and other folks perspectives at least in the political arena.

    I choose to not listen to tv news and sometimes get busy in the rest of my life and when i need a place to catch up on the important happenings in our world, I’ve gotten the jump start here at this sight, not to mention finding the inspiring and powerful voices of sanity much needed in these sometimes insane times.

    Wishing you and your sister lasting health.

  73. Pamela,
    I understand. I would like to email you. Can I have your website?
    Know though, that most of us here on this site love the helpful suggestions and understand they are meant as a possible avenue to alternative care. I certainly believe that most of us are smart enough to consult with our doctors if we have health questions. Particularly if we are already on other medications.
    Again, Thank you

  74. Δ¥ Tine, Claire and Anon,

    Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,
    I will definitely be giving Ms. Sutton a call.
    I am so in love with Helen, Margaret and all of you “regulars” with your chitchat, helpful advice and suggestions. I am always here with you, just quietly eating my pie and learning at the feet of the Masters.

  75. Tine, I love you!!! Thank you for stepping up and offering kitkat what sounds like a wonderful practitioner. and kitkat, Bastyr is one of four (that I know of) excellent schools in the US for studying both naturopathy and acupuncture. So, I think you can trust her education and skill level and well, anyone who is friends with Tine has to be pretty ‘tuff stuff’…

    And, I gotta be honest folks, after the attacks on my character more than a month ago at the beginning of this blog by no ones puppet and now here again at what we all hope is the end of this particular thread, I’m more than a bit reluctant to make suggestions for or to anyone.

    Though kitkat your sister is more than welcome to email me with questions and I will do my best to help her and no jsri, I’m not looking to make money here. See, what I mean about how snitty people can be?

    jsri, you have really pissed me off with your slander and lies…… yes, that is indeed what you are doing, lying about Zicam and what products they have available. You are one piece of work and a liar to boot. Pee off and get some honesty about you.

    OK, I suppose I’m done venting! Forgive me please and know that it just annoys the heck out of me when people mislead people in this arena cause I swear on my life that everything I have mentioned to you folks, and lately and from now on, only when asked, is truly safe and tested and effective.

  76. Helen & Margaret, you must have something to say about this, please?

    Lieberman: Take Public Option Off The Table, Come Back To It In Four Years


  77. Thanks Anonymous.

  78. Oscilloccinum


  79. Tine,
    I totally agree with you. I firmly believe that the woman hacking and coughing behind me on the train 2 1/2 weeks ago is the one that gave me H1N1. I wonder how many other people on their way to work that day also got sick. Makes me soooo mad, as I kept thinking I should move away from her, but didn’t want to stand all the way in to town. Silly me. I was lucky — I had understanding employers and was able to stay home the last two weeks and just ran in one day last week to get homework/tests to grade. Doctor told me I was contagious for at LEAST a week (fever lasted about 8 days, and needed 24 hours after the fever to stop being contagious).

  80. Just put Oscilloccinum on tomorrow’s shopping list. According to their website, the drug is regulated by FDA and it is available at numerous stores in my area.

  81. I would feel just terrible if I gave the H1N1 flu to a vulerable person, like a child or a pregnant woman.

  82. MiKat: You weren’t asking me, but I can’t help myself. Hope you will forgive my intrusion….

    I happen to know of a wonderful ND/acupuncturist in Seattle. She is my oldest friend…we’ve known each other since I was 3 and she was 2. :)

    Her name is Julie Sutton, and she practices at Belltown Spine & Wellness. http://www.belltownchiro.com/custom_content/8129_julie_sutton_nd_lac.html

    Julie is a well-trained professional: 2 BSs from the University of Minnesota (psychology & biology) and a 4-year ND (naturopathic doctor) degree from Bastyr University.

    In addition, I happen to know from 38 yrs. of experience that she’s a top-notch human being. :)

  83. Oscillococcinum?? I give up! LOL

  84. LOL, I STILL mispelled it!

  85. Oscillicoccinum is a homeopathic medicine used to treat flu symptoms. Works best when you use it at the first sign of flu, it comes in small vials of sweet “sprinkles” that you dissolve in your mouth every 4-6 hours I believe. You can find out more at oscillo.com. It is now sold in regular drugstores.

  86. Tine, I remember back in the 80′s when I was working in a hair salon and a woman came in to get her hair done. She was too sick to go to work, but thought getting her hair done would make her feel better. She almost fainted when she was under the dryer. She gave the WHOLE salon the flu! She singlehandedly wiped out the whole staff. Talk about thoughtless…

  87. Pamela,
    I am VERY insterested in finding information on natural medicines, an ND and a good acupuncturist. Can you please recommend some web sites. I am in Seattle. I would love to see your website, but your name is not highlighted, can you give your site address? What is Oscillicccinum? (sp). I have chronic IBS and I have a sister who has IBS, Fibromalgia as well as a multitude of other health issues. She will ONLY receive medical care in Thailand. Unfortunately, she can only afford to go see her Doctors in Thailand once a year. She has had several operations, but never seems to get better. She will not disclose to any of us just what IS wrong according to her doctors, but she is on some SERIOUS pain medication that would put a full grown bull out like a light (I am not kidding, I have seen the dose and amount she takes) I am so worried about her and would love to find an ND here that she might visit. Any help you could offer would be much appreciated.

  88. Oops, error up there. That should read ” — and making the whole office sick — “

  89. People who go to work when they’re obviously ill *really* irritate me. I know some people do it because they have draconian policies at work or other difficult issues…but there is rarely (if ever) a circumstance in which working while ill — and giving the whole office is a constructive idea. It’s DEstructive. Don’t do it, I beg you!

    I work from home now, but when I was managing an editorial department, I made it abundantly clear that I didn’t want any barfing, hacking, sneezing, rashy, or otherwise contagious/ill employees around. If someone came in ill, I sent them home and insisted that the HR folks cut them some slack if they didn’t have any sick days left. If they were well enough to work from home, I encouraged that.

  90. Okay, enough already!
    I agree with NOP about preparing for the flu season, unfortunately, here in ATL, there are NO seasonal flu shots to be found! So I guess I will stock up on Oscillicccinum (SP??) before that’s all gone, too. I do have the hand soap, hand sanitizer, lots of soup, tissues and anti-bacterial wipes at the ready. And NOP made another very good point, don’t be a martyr and go to work if you have the flu!! My boss did that one year, gave it to me TWICE!

  91. good morning, all!

    Auntie Jean, yes I do work with other health professionals quite frequently and have great respect for what they bring to the table. Two of my herbal formulas (one for asthma and one for insomnia) have been involved in medical studiies, both most successfully. I have medical doctors refer to me, come see me as patients and respect the work I do as I do them. My original intention was to become an ND, MD (Naturopathic MD) but when I experienced the complete recovery from my ulcerative colitis after I can’t tell you the kind of pain and disability I had been operating with for two years straight, I decided to go to acupuncture school.

    Quick note here folks, please make sure your ND provider has indeed gone to a reputable medical school because in many states, including Georgia, anyone age 18 and above can call themselves an ND, as there are no laws governing them in Ga. There are several excellent NDs that are truly medical professionals but there are also at least a hundred others in the state that have no licensing and no one governing what they’re doing and I see much need for the laws to change in this regard.

    I had already done my BS in a premed program and so then did four more years in Chinese medicine, both acupuncture and Chinese herbology (which goes far beyond Western herbology in its ability to effectively treat various syndromes). My school was founded by an amazing man, a 37th generation acupuncturist and his two sons, 38th generation acupuncturists and I bless them every day for what they’ve brought to my life.

    I have great respect for traditional medicine but I have no respect for people who don’t tell the truth and who distrust herbs and natural remedies just because they are natural. Believe me when I tell you that the pharmaceutical industry has great respect for natural medicine and they just want to figure out how to patent it so they can control it and make it profitable for them.

    jsri isn’t being honest when he discounts zicam and claims, as he did on Oct 26, 3:45 pm that
    “I am a scientist by training, a skeptic by inclination and operate with a refined moral sensibility. So when I see a product or device that has been determined to be dangerous or ineffective and see it being promoted or recommended on the Internet or elsewhere, I feel that I have a moral responsibility to point that out.”

    How is he being dishonest? Zicam does currently have 17 products, including cold and flu products that have been deemed safe and effective and they are available to the public, though he infers they have all been pulled. He is either purposely lying or he has lost the ability to do any meaningful fact checking.

    He has been attacking from the beginning of this particular thread and I have bent over backwards to accomodate his prejudice and fear mongering and you know what? Enough.

    People do need to know that they have alternatives to drugs, especially for these most common of ailments. And I do have respect for drugs in their proper place. And yes, there’s a lot of bogus and even dangerous ‘natural’ products out there and you do want to use your best judgement and call on a trained health professional when in doubt, but dammit, some of its just common sense.

  92. Actually, I think he’s missing his rudder.

  93. Joe Lieberman is a showboat missing the paddle wheel.

  94. Hi gang,

    I know we are all concerned about Margaret and Helen. We do have to remember though that they are both, ahem, “mature” with, ahem, “mature” spouses and extended families.

    Being in somewhat the same boat, it is easy for me to understand that there can be a new minor crisis on the hour, every hour demanding their attention. Let’s just hope that’s all it is and they will return as soon as they possibly can.

    In the meantime, I think we owe it to them and have a responsibility to keep the Republicans/Conservatives feet to the fire so President Obama can do his job. Can you believe Lieberman and his stance on the Health Care issue? What an ego! It wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that the state he represents has the highest concentration of insurance companies in the country, would it?

    Way back in 1950, the great historian Will Durant wrote something so profound that I committed it to memory. This is the quote:

    “The legacy [of history] included evil as well as good. We have not fully recovered from the Dark Ages; the insecurity that excites greed, the fear that fosters cruelty, the poverty that breeds filth and ignorance, the filth that generates disease, the ignorance that begets credulity, superstition, occultism – these still survive amongst us; and the dogmatism that festers into intolerance and Inquisitions only awaits opportunity of permission to oppress, kill, ravage and destroy.”

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  95. I’m beginning to think Margaret and Helen are a fraud. I really hope they are who they say they are. I doubt this is being perpetrated by college kids because whoever is doing the writing knows her/his facts far beyond newspapers and on-line sources. I’ve lived through what this writer is talking about.

    If things are not okay, her “nephew” would have told us by now.

  96. Dear Helen,
    We sure hope you’re okay, we miss reading your blogs, so full of good common sense and wit. Here’s wishing you and Margaret a very Happy Halloween!

    Take care,
    Clyde and Linda
    Poteet, Texas

  97. Everyone here who is sick has my sympathy, a speedy recovery to all of you, but it appears the flu season this year is going to be very lengthy. At the moment H1N1 is making a round, next the seasonal flu is going to make its rounds, then a second and maybe a third go-round of H1N1. Why make ourselves sick arguing alternative medicine vs. conventional treatment? Although it is an excellent idea to clear any over the counter product with your pharmacist to prevent possible adverse drug interactions. If natural health remedies are your thing lay in a supply now, as for me, I have already received a seasonal flu shot, and I plan to take a H1N1 vaccination as soon as it is available for people born prior to 1950. Meanwhile, I am washing my hands a lot, sanitizing gym equipment before and after my workout, I have my doctor’s phone number on speed dial (just in case I need a prescription for Tamiflu), and I have stocked the cupboards with soups, tissues, cough syrup, etc. If I get sick this year, I plan to remain homebound for the duration I certainly don’t want to expose anyone else.

  98. There is a consensus here. I do not believe there has ever been this length of time between posts since I have been reading this blog. The last time that happened, Mathew did inform us about Helen being under the weather. Although I am worried, I am just hoping that no news is good news and maybe, Helen might be on vacation soaking up the sun in Hawaii, maybe?

  99. Hi everyone! Has anyone heard from Matthew or Helen & Margaret? It’s been quite some time with no news and I’m getting concerned, as I’m sure the other “regular” guests are.

  100. jsri: I am going to assume that you are truly well intentioned here and just passionate about something that pushes your buttons and not being a jerk just to be a jerk.

    Let’s be clear about some things up front. One, I was asked for advise and i gave it willingly and freely without trying direct anyone back to me for my financial gain, though you imply that is what I am doing in my message to kitkat.

    You also try to insult me for my referring her to zicam for prevention of colds and flus, when there are several zicam products curently available for flu and cold relief that have nothing to do with the two “voluntarily pulled” zicam products.

    You completely dishonestly imply that all zicam products are dangerous and off the market though zicam has seventeen of their products still available to the public in drug stores and all studies, available through zicam.com ‘s site indicate they’ve more than done their due diligence to prove product safety.

    You provide your information more in the style of Faux pundits, with little bits of possible truths muddied by fear tactics and slander directed both at me and at zicam’s mother company, Matrix.

    I have sited several studies that do show that long term loss of smell as well as short term loss of smell are most common with colds, flus, sinus infections and even zinc deficiency, and I have pulled this information from main stream medicine sites.

    This is another interesting little tidbit coming from a medical report done by independent medical analysts:

    “The three most common causes of anosmia (loss of smell) are the common cold, sinusitis, and head trauma. Aging is a major factor as well. Furthermore, incidence rate of anosmia for Zicam users is lower than the incidence rate in the general population”

    and if you were truly interested in discovery instead of using slanted and biased information, I would be much more interested in what you have to say.

    cmac: I completely understand and support your seeking medical and/or natural treatments, as you deem appropriate. My responses are being taken out of context as I was originally asked for advise, by kitkat, for only natural remedies to help her recover from the flu.

    jsri slammed me and “alternative” remedies and is making me out to be some sort of profit motivated charlatan while he ignores the facts that there are several zicam products that have been deemed more than safe for use against colds and flu.

    These other two products that Matrix voluntarily pulled likely have little to do with peoples loss of smell when you consider the facts and statistics, but that’s a mute point here.

  101. Pamela, I mentioned the temporary nature of the loss of smell due to colds because the list you posted implied that the permanent loss of smell due to colds was less common, yet in your comment you seemed to conflate the two.

    Zicam has, in fact, been cited by the FDA as the cause of anosmia in the 130 cases observed – all of which were referred to the FDA by physicians.

    I have no problem with herbal treatments, but I’m not going to rule out medical treatments. It seems to me that neither system works all the time, and that it’s best to keep an open mind and to stay informed.

  102. By: Pamela on October 26, 2009 at 9:28 PM

    You noted: – “You are being quite biased and prejudiced in your view, not to mention attacking. “ (Correct! Based on personal experience.). “One would think you were a pharmaceutical rep or have your retirement wrapped up in big pharma stocks.” (Wrong and wrong! Not even in the ballpark.).

    How about education? University level. Specialty: Undergraduate (PreMed) and health care students. Perhaps even some who later became herbalists. Also experienced in University and College administration.

    Retired 18 years. Have several current volunteer activities – a way of giving back to the community as a partial repayment for a life saving medical procedure ten years ago.

    When one retires, medical issues tend to control one’s way of life. If you haven’t had the experience, you will. But back on the mid-90’s when the Internet went mainstream, new vistas were opened for the transfer of information from person to person and medical info was a prime example. Long before blogging became a way of life, people with special interests would set up websites where others with similar interests could exchange information. This was especially true concerning medical issues and many of the early sites were global. To help matters, search engines (pre-Google) could now be used to search medical data bases for info. But it was not too long before these special interest websites and the search engines became cluttered with glowing reports of non-convential treatments, out of the medical mainstream. These reports were always linked to further sites where one would find more glowing reports plus price schedules and order blanks. Needless to say, I found this to be annoying and basically unhelpful because many of the products being promoted had never been scientifically tested for effectiveness, for content, or for strength of supposed active ingredients. It was a free-for-all then and remains a free-for-all today.

    So when I see something similar happening on H&E’s website, which is ostensibly for the exchange of political pot shots, I get testy.

  103. I love everything about you two, especially your opinions and your writing! Where are you? I am worried. We haven’t heard from you in a few weeks and I am getting concerned. Aren’t you going to weigh in on whether Fox is a news outlet or not? I am hoping you are just taking a breather. My life would be lacking something terrific without you. Diane Tucker

  104. Folks on the porch – could youplease lend your voices to this cause to stop the mountaintop removal in West Virginia? For more information, please go here


  105. jsri: I obviously have nothing to gain financially from promoting zicam or any other product I’ve told people about here and I would bet that you nor any other scientist, doctor or health provider know every drug or over the counter that has been pulled for whatever reasons they are pulled. You are being quite biased and prejudiced in your view, not to mention attacking. One would think you were a pharmaceutical rep or have your retirement wrapped up in big pharma stocks.

  106. First Nanna Jo…Then Granny…..Now Margaret and Helen.
    Loving an old person only leads to sorrow and pain.

    Never again!!

  107. Margaret & Helen, I have only just found you and I am concerned that you haven’t posted for so long. Are you okay? We’d like to hear from you soon.

  108. JRSI and Pamela, I have faith that you both mean well and that you have more in common than you do differences.

  109. Matthew, the silence from Margaret & Helen is worrisome. Very worrisome.

  110. Pamela:

    I am a scientist by training, a skeptic by inclination and operate with a refined moral sensibility. So when I see a product or device that has been determined to be dangerous or ineffective and see it being promoted or recommended on the Internet or elsewhere, I feel that I have a moral responsibility to point that out. I’m not sure why you seem to have a problem with that. And I’m surprised to learn that you were promoting a product that you did not even know was under suspicion.

    I have no financial incentive either to support a product or eliminate one. I can only relate my personal experiences and those of people that I trust and so far, you and I are poles apart and I don’t see much common ground for agreement or even discussion so I’m outta here. I’ve been down this road too many times before.

  111. Pamela:

    I am a scientist by training, a skeptic by inclination and operate with a refined moral sensibility. So when I see a product or device that has been determined to be dangerous or ineffective and see it being promoted or recommended on the Internet or elsewhere, I feel that I have a moral responsibility to point that out. I’m not sure why people have a problem with that. Also, I’m surprised to learn that you were promoting a product that you did not even know was under suspicion.

    I have no financial incentive either to support a product or eliminate one. I can only relate my personal experiences and those of people that I trust and so far, you and I are poles apart and I don’t see much common ground for agreement or even discussion so I’m outta here. I’ve been down this road too many times before.

  112. SAw something by BillO’Reilly on the OPOEd page of the local paper. Only read th e Heading and a couple of sentences when my digestion threatened me with the bathroom!
    In it he sai that Ooooobama shoulllllllld fire Rahm Emmanuel an ddd get a new advisor. Guess wh o?? wouldn’t you know he suggested himsellf!! That is when my digestion started doing flipflops and I read n o more.

    So our current troll is vacatoning in Hawaii.That is not far enough or remote enough.

  113. We miss you, Margaret & Helen.

  114. cmac: First off, I do hope you fully recover your olfactory rights. I am aware that a cold or flu usually is accompanied by temporary loss of smell but am also aware that, due to damage to the sinus membranes while sick with a cold or flu a person can have long lasting and even permanent loss of smell. Here’s a very interesting statement from the mayoclinic.com covering some of the causes of loss of smell and also stating that lack of zinc can cause the loss of smell on a temporary or a permanent basis.

    By Mayo Clinic staff
    Loss of smell due to problems with the inner lining of your nose:

    Anosmia can be caused by temporary or permanent irritation, or destruction of the mucus membranes lining the inside of your nose. This can be caused by:

    Acute sinusitis (sinus infection)
    Hay fever
    Common cold
    Influenza (flu)
    Nonallergic rhinitis

    and they go on to say:

    Your olfactory system, which provides your sense of smell, consists of receptors in the mucus lining of your nose that send information through nerves into your brain. You can lose your sense of smell if any of these are damaged or destroyed. This can happen from:

    Alzheimer’s disease
    Brain aneurysm
    Brain surgery
    Brain tumor
    Chemical exposures to certain insecticides or solvents
    Hormonal disturbance
    Huntington’s disease
    Klinefelter syndrome (a condition where males have an extra X chromosome in most of their cells)
    Kallmann’s syndrome (inability of testicles to produce sperm)
    Korsakoff’s psychosis (a brain disorder caused by the lack of thiamine)
    Medications (nifedipine, terbinafine, others)
    Multiple sclerosis
    Paget’s disease of bone (a disease that results in enlarged and misshapen bones)
    Parkinson’s disease
    Pick’s disease (a form of dementia)
    Radiation therapy
    Multiple system atrophy (MSA) (a neurological disorder characterized by an excessive drop in blood pressure when standing up)
    Sjogren’s syndrome (an inflammatory disease that generally causes dry mouth and eyes)
    Traumatic brain injury
    Zinc deficiency

    Did you see that last one???? Zinc deficiency
    can cause loss of smell that is temporary or permanent.

    My point is that it has not been proven that zicam’s nasal swab or their spray was the causative factor and even if they were, its not cause to bash the use of zinc with colds or other natural products, particularly since zinc deficiency can cause this very condition.

    Yes, I have worked with sjorgen’s syndrome in a handful of folks, mostly women and acupuncture and herbals are very helpful with it. Remember that question I originally asked kitkat about whether she needed to boost the immune response or calm it down. When the auto immune system is turning on the body, acupuncture is powerful in calming it down and restoring it to balance. It’s like when your sympathetic nervous system gets amped up and you go to bed and sleep a couple of hours and then wake with a start and can’t get back to sleep…. go see an acupuncturist and have them nourish the parasympathetic system and you’re sleeping like a cat again (was gonna say baby, but I’ve heard a few of them crying in the night and that’s not what we’re wanting here!). This balancing of the body is powerful and it works.

    And I know we’re conditioned to say there are no cures but guess what, there are… I’ve seen thousands of cures with patients over the years and I want Moms with kids suffering from asthma or folks looking at taking hypertension meds or cholesterol meds for the rest of their lives to know they can be healed.

    OK, enough…. Blessings to all of you.

  115. Hi y’all. I forgot to mention that my family always uses Oscillicoccinum when we think we are coming down w. the flu. It’s a small dose of homeopathic “sprinkles” which you let melt under your tongue, usually every 4-6 hours the first day of symptoms. Works wonders! My mom even takes a half dose when she travels.
    Hope everyone is doing well.

  116. Another Right Wing smear of Michelle Obama!
    It has been exposed by THE MUDFLATS. Just the usual right wing lies and distortions – Faux style.

    It was great of her to go through the facts so I do not have to waste my time.


  117. Pamela, the loss of smell from using zinc products in the nose is permanent – or at least very long-lasting. I have recovered some of mine, but not all, and I haven’t used Zicam in at least two years.

    The fact that people can’t smell when they have a cold is pretty much par for the course. It’s the duration of the symptom that changes with zinc usage.

    Just sayin’.

  118. The democrats won the election and the best our troll can do is yell into the wind. Trolls and the republican party are losing their people because they have nothing positive to say. The party of NO says it all.

    The more the trolls and republicans talk stupid, the fewer people who listen to them and take them seriously.

  119. Donna, you’re right. I fed the troll for which I’m sorry and it won’t happen again.

    Don’t feed the troll, don’t feed the troll, don’t feed the troll…

  120. okay…..Matthew…please tell us something….if I don’t hear something soon…or get a new post from Helen, I’m going to lose it….I either need to celebrate a new post….or I need closure.

    Please….an update, at least?

  121. Indeed. It’s lovely because even the troll’s insults lack any modicum of originality. “Psych 101 is down the hall…” oooohhh.

    I once had a nasty old inlaw who would say crap and, when people disapproved of his racism, sexism, what have you, would say “you got no sense humor.” I am grateful for the majority of people on this site who are truly humorous and who don’t find grade school insults amusing.

  122. Good-hearted….



    You are one OR the other. You can not be both.

    Follow your heart.

  123. Hello All. Hope everyone had a good weekend. I was so hoping for a new post from Helen and Margaret. But no, not yet. I pray they are well. I hope that the morning will bring a new one. Until then….

    Honolulu Sally, be on the lookout for a slightly past middle age haole with a beer belly and pie stains on a new Hawaiian shirt. He will be the one with the farmer’s tan and a bell around his neck. Note also a clumbsy style with a West Texas twang. There could be cursing and gnashing of teeth in his wake. Consider yourself forewarned.

    Donna, yes intent. It is all about intent. What’s in the heart? That is the determiner. Thankfully, my God sees and judges the heart. Motive and agenda. Some people should actually come with warning labels.

    Speaking of warning labels… I think the Dolly LLama has the right idea regarding Rush.

    Stand up to lying bullies

  124. Jean:

    Human genetics was not my special field but I can probably handle some basic genetics. However even for a rudimentary background it could get complicated and I’m not sure H&M’s website would be the proper venue to do this. Also right now I’m sort of strung out by a new volunteer activity so It may be a while before I get back to you.

    If your question is related to your question to Pamela re Sjorgen’s Syndrome, here are websites with some basic info. The first is introductory, the second has more detail



    In that SS seems run in families and affects women about ten times more often than men, it would seem to me on first glance that the it is a genetic condition but that control of its expression may be affected by sex hormones.

  125. Aloha……..

  126. Hi gang and Pamela,

    Pamela, are you acquainted with ‘Sjögren’s Syndrome’, a factor in loss of smell and taste with even more serious possible consequences.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  127. Donna,
    Psych class 101 and is down the hall if you can find it.
    Trust your inner self Donna ..Don’t go to the light.

  128. Hey you kids enjoy yourselves..I’m off to Oahu for a few days of R&R.

    Give it a rest people..you all are way too serious.

    M&H will be back..just give it a rest and trust in yourselves for the moment.

    High 5′s

  129. For the love of God, people, the troll went away when it wasn’t getting any attention.

    Don’t try to explain why his Kwanzaa comment was racist–it doesn’t matter to it. It is simply here to try to cause offense and provoke a response, not because it genuinely gives a rip about why it is such an extraordinary pathetic jackass.

    Went to a wonderful talk by a pastor the other day. She was saying that it’s not the words, it’s the intent. This came up in the context of people who, during the election, would use the President’s middle name and then, after the election feigned confusion as to why it was “ok” for him to use his name but not when they did it. It’s because they were doing it to convey disdain or disrespect for his ethnicity. And, with people like that, no matter how many times you would try to explain that it’s not the words, it’s the intention, you’d get the same crap “oh, but WHY was it wrong when I did it?”

    There’s no possibility of educating someone like this. As the saying goes, you can’t fix stupid.

  130. Hi gang, Judith, Pamela and jsri,

    I’m with you on lifestyle and humor, Judith. Half the stuff I put up here at M&H is said with tongue and cheek. If we can’t laugh at ourselves and life once in a while, we are in big trouble.

    I applaud you, Pamela, for your enthusiasm in your chosen profession and willingness to help. As we all know, people have the option to either accept advice of any kind or ignore it. I do hope that you routinely work in conjunction with other health care providers. We have been pleased with our internist in that he does not profess to know everything, shares records and test results with our chiropractor and vice versa. He does not hesitate a minute to call in professionals from other disciplines and specialties. I’m sure you can appreciate the years of intense study beyond a MA or MS for a doctor as he/she goes into internships and residencies, to say nothing of experience.

    Most health care professionals are careful not to use the word ‘cure’ but rather talk about ‘diagnoses’ and ‘treatments’ on the basis of examination and available judicious testing. The well-informed patient is then free to either accept of reject any and all recommendations.

    It has been said that Americans have the most expensive urine in the world. We are constantly bombarded with ads for vitamins, minerals and all kinds of supplements to say nothing of prescription drugs and alternative medicines. It can be a confusing world out there!

    There is much to be said about the ‘Placebo Effect’ and ‘Spontaneous Remissions’ that have yet to be explained. For sure, the body is amazing in its attempts to maintain itself and/or heal itself (homeostasis) in spite of assaults from many directions.

    A little personal testimonial. From 1968-74 I went back to college because I had become interested in a narrow field of Physiological Psychology. I was in a routine lab class where we were typing our blood and learning how to make slides for the microscope, etc. (I already knew my blood type is ‘A Positive’ from when my kids were born. As it turned out in my later studies, ‘A Positive’ is indicative of genetic origin.)

    One of the things we were required to do was test and record our lung capacity using a canister that we blew into. Almost 40 years later, I’m sure there are much more sophisticated measuring instruments today. Anyway at the time, I was in my late 30’s by then, a smoker and we happened to be living in the smog-filled Los Angeles Basin. I thought, “Oh Gawd! I’m gonna flunk this one!”

    The lab was very quiet as all we students were busy, busy with our various projects. I blew into that canister as hard as I could and the lid flew off, clattering noisily to the floor. I was quite embarrassed. The professor laughed and said, “Where were you born? In the Andes?”

    Not quite, but close. I was born and lived at 9,000 feet elevation for the first three years of my life and the next fifteen at well over a mile high in pristine, unpolluted mountain air. Apparently, that background has given me a set of lungs that won’t quit!

    Whenever I have given my family and genealogical medical history, a doctor starts scratching his head. It’s that far off the Bell Curve! There were three separate cases of rather rare cancers in my immediate family, two of them invariably fatal. At age 80, I have always been cancer free, having participated in a National long-term cancer study for a number of years. Also, as of four months ago, my blood chemistry is that of a 16-year-old for cholesterol, tri-glycerides, blood sugar, etc. Go figure.

    My dad was obviously ‘heterozygous’; my mother, ‘homozygous’ with some interesting implications and other environmental factors thrown in the mix to muddy the waters.

    Here’s where you come in, jsri. I wish you would jump in and explain those terms better than I can. Also, while you are at it, how about ‘Genetic Profiling’ that could be on the horizon to impact future employment discrimination and another excuse for insurance companies to deny coverage on the basis of ‘pre-existing conditions’ – before birth!!!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  131. Pamela, count me as another who enjoys reading your posts about alternative therapies. I’m not anti-Western medicine at all, but my first choice is always to try a natural remedy first. I have friends who turn to pills for any and every little thing and guess what? They GET any and every thing that comes along. It’s like their immune system has decided to just sit back and let chemicals do all the work.

  132. I really thought Kwanzaa..was a real celebration of Africans?
    Their Christmas so to speak..Why should we judge what or who celebrates whatever?

    Come in Helen..Come In Helen

    I think she just overflew Howland Island..

  133. I haven’t been here in a while so just catching up. interesting posts, i must say. but Craig, simple, deluded Craig, did you really say Kwanzaa? did you really inject something so stupid, so racist, so inapporpriate into this blog which engenders reasonable and thought-provoking discourse? Surely, there’s a Hee-Haw episode on cable somewhere that would better occupy your mental capacity. (there. how does it feel?)

  134. You know what’s really funny in this whole Zicam scare? You ready for this? It seems that anosmia, the loss of smell blamed on Zicam use by 800 folks in the ten years (and over a million doses sold) Zicam has been on the market, is most often caused by the common cold and nasal congestion, the very thing these people were using Zicam to treat. This is a quote from the medicaldictionary.com …..
    “Anosmia is the most common type of smelling disorder. Loss of the olfactory sense is generally caused by nasal congestion or obstruction. Temporary partial anosmia often occurs when a person has a cold, the flu, or some types of rhinitis, especially hay fever (allergic rhinitis). During these conditions, nasal mucus membranes become inflamed. Other causes for anosmia are:
    Nasal polyps and other disorders that prevent air from getting to the area in the nose where the smell receptors are found. Hay fever or an allergy may cause one or more polyps to show up.
    Viral upper respiratory infection.
    Atrophic rhinitis. This condition causes mucus membrane to waste away. The person may experience some level of permanenOne symptom of this condition is that a person expels a foul-smelling discharge.
    Hypertrophic rht anosmia. initis. Mucous membrane thickens, covering the olfactory nerve endings. If not treated, hypertrophic rhinitis can lead to permanent anosmia. This discharge could overpower other odors.
    Cigarettes. Smoking aggravates the nose’s membrane and intensifys nasal polyp symptoms.
    A crooked nose or a deviated septum.
    When the olfactory bulbs, tracts, or central connections are destroyed. This can occur in situations such as head trauma, infections or nasal or sinus surgery.
    Head injury. If both olfactory nerves are torn during a head injury, permanent anosmia results.
    Medications such as antihistamines and decongestants, especially prolonged use of decongestants.”

    I wonder how many of these cases were due to the cold or flu instead of the Zicam!!!!!

    kitkat, lori, poolman and judith, juneaujoe and pat…. thanks for sticking up for me…. darn, I was starting to feel like every little bit of good intention was getting slapped silly.

    kitkat, yes, a good assortment of friendly bacteria in the gut is essential to strong digestion and robust immune system. Many folks don’t need to supplement but if you’ve done rounds of antibiotics or even too much echinacea or colloidal silver or other strong anti bacterials or had parasites or yeast overgrowth, taking a supplemental probiotic is helpful. You can also eat more sauerkraut, miso soup, kimchee or cultured veggies, and yogurt to help rebuild your army of essential bacteria in the gut. I make a keifered coconut juice and toss it in my delicious orange ‘cream cicle’ protein shake most every morning. Even kids love it and have no idea its good for them too. Some things its better not to tell kids about and healthy for them falls into that category.

  135. Alternative and Preventative Health are great topics. Lots of material there. I don’t necessarily subscribe to every theory and tend to go with a ‘moderation in all things’ approach, but more information is always better than less, as long as the information is confirmed through reliable sources.

    My family medical history is almost nothing but lifestyle diseases, so I’ve got lots of examples of what not to do. Don’t always abide by them….(God, I hate to exercise. But I do know better). We seem to be a long-lived bunch in the face of massive bodily abuse, so as long as I live right and ride Beag the motorcycle carefully, I should be immortal.

    My personal bugaboo is (are?) nutritionists. I’ve never met one with a sense of humor. Since humor is large in my personal set of coping mechanisms, I always get into major trouble. Especially since they seem to keep saying things like “But that’s artificial oxygen”. Really heard that once. Ok, it’s an atom. It is what it is.

    DH has type 2 diabetes. Shortly after diagnosis, we were still doing the tests and meetings to determine which type, how bad and what to do about it. One of his problems is his liver. Grossly oversimplified – your liver, among many other functions, can produce glucose when it determines that your blood sugar has dropped way too low. Good function, helps prevent seizures until you can get to some food. But if the set point is too high, it cranks out glucose when you don’t need it. His appears to be set at around 200. This is a problem.

    We were in a group meeting with other patients, 2 doctors and one nutritionist. At one point, I turned to him and said “So, what we need to do is wipe out some of your liver. What do you think, honey – surgery or Jack Daniels?” The doctors took this in the spirit it was intended. The nutritionist leapt to her feet and commenced to shouting at me that I had Got It All Wrong. Took a while to calm down, too, and never did quite forgive me. Sheesh.

  136. Pamela, I also appreciate your help (esp. since I requested it :) ). Interestingly enough, several of the items you recommended were discussed in my most recent Prevention magazine. They appear to be found in things like oranges and cranberries. One thing you didn’t mention was probiotics. Much of my research is stating that taking probiotics also boosts the immune system.

    Also, all the talk the other day about roasted root veggies led me to pick up several types at the store and roast them for dinner last night. Delish!

  137. Pamela,

    Alternative Health is a good topic.

    Since the 60s chemicals have taken over our world. Asthma, allergies, autism and behavior issues have increased dramatically.

    I have seen how diet and alternate means have improved the life style of people. Keep up the posts.

  138. Pamela, I agree with Lori. I appreciate all your posts.

  139. Pamela, count me as one of the ones who enjoys reading about alternative healing/medicines. As with everything in life a person should seek as much information about the subject before making up their mind, especially when it comes to their health. However learning and listening about “new” things never harms us does it? Knowledge is a good thing… Thanks for sharing yours with us.

    Go Steelers! namaste all.. ;-)

  140. Not all zicam products have been recalled. The oral products are still available. The ones in question are the nasal gels/sprays containing zinc. The theory is that in some people, the spray came in contact with the olfactory nerve and caused damage. I used zicam for years with no adverse effects, but I made sure not to inhale it farther up in my nose. The package directions clearly stated that one should not inhale the product deeply, and the one time I did, it landed on my very raw, sore throat and burned like mad. I learned my lesson.


    I miss Margaret and Helen.

  141. Pamela, some of us appreciate your information and knowledge. I know natural remedies are not always the best fit, but they are much easier on our systems. I would prefer to give the natural remedy a chance first before I opted for the synthetic. And you are correct to say that big pharma mimics nature when it seeks effective cures. But it cannot patent nature, so it doesn’t have the control over the product and cannot profit as greatly. Therefore the synthetic.

    Truly though, there is a lot of misinformation and some real quacks out there. The FDA doesn’t help and a lot of “modern” science has ignored traditional and cultural knowledge.

  142. jsri: You seem to be getting a bit testy there. I wasn’t giving you any advise, presumptious or otherwise, I was asked for some natural, safe substances by kitkat to assist her in her recovery from the flu…. and gave her several suggestions all of which you seemed to bash when you told her she really shouldn’t seek out medical advise over the internet, especially if using “alternative” substances as if they are inherently unsafe. Yes, the Zicam was not appropriate, as I wasn’t aware the company pulled it from the stores, however that shouldn’t detract from the other suggestions given.

    As I have my Masters degree in complementary medicine and Chinese herbology, I do have some knowledge of safe, health enhancing treatments for many health issues. It is good to know that when I need a statistic to use (as you did in your statement ”because if we closed all the hospitals and clinics and fired all the MD’s and turned over our medical needs to purveyors of herbs and spices, these numbers (the accurate statistical number of more than 250,000 deaths per year in the US from prescription drugs) would increase ten fold.” I can pull that statistic right out of my hat. Really, ten fold… not twenty, not fifteen, but ten fold…. hmmmm…. where do you get your facts?

    Fact is, Big Pharma looks to the herbal world to see what’s working so they can try to mimic its chemical structure and patent it and charge hundreds times more for it than necessary.

    Fact is, herbal formulas are used in the hospitals in China alongside pharmaceuticals and we know every aspect of their chemical composition and which drugs they can and can not be used with as well as how to combine them in herbal formulas of fifteen or more herbs to synergistically balance them to treat the whole person.

    Fact is, there are thousands of people with a little bit of knowledge of what they’re hawking giving out advise to folks and often doing little good and sometimes harm but that is not a reflection on the natural remedies just the ignorance of folks with what I call a dangerous/little amount of knowledge.

    And since I listened to your history, let me tell you a bit of mine. Back in 1994 I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, a very painful and chronic ulcerative condition in the colon. My medical doctor recommended removing the several feet of intestines involved which I didn’t find appealing. I went to a doctor of Chinese medicine and started taking an herbal formula and receiving acupuncture treatments and within two weeks was pain free for the first time in 2 years and no longer had the copious amounts of blood and mucus in my stools. The insomnia I had suffered with since I was a little girl was gone, my headaches were gone and the tendonitis I had suffered with for several years hasn’t bothered me in the fifteen years since my acupuncture treatments. As I had been studying and using Western herbal medicine for many years with only partial and limited success, I decided Chinese medicine was something I wanted to study and it has completely changed my life and health as it has my patients.

    Can Chinese medicine cure everything, no. But it can make amazing and what are perceived as miraculous changes in peoples health. It does cure asthma, allergies, digestive issues, ibs, acid reflux, chronic and debilitating pains, insomnia, anxiety, hypertension, migraines and etc, etc, etc.

    It seems that you and everyone in your circle has had the misfortune of getting advise from those with the dangerous little bits of knowledge. That shouldn’t make you bash the medicine but rather seek out more knowledgeable people to work with.

  143. To be trashed by O’reilly is a compliment.

    Grayson is very impressive!

  144. I read that O’Reilly and Sally Quinn were trashing Rep. Alan Grayson on the Factor. Please, people, before you jump on that train, read the guy’s bio. Pretty impressive guy, plus he doesn’t seem to be phased by the faux machine.

  145. This is a musical which is amazing! Billionaires for wealthcare punked the Insurance Industry convention.


  146. Welcome to the porch, Pastor Dan. :)

  147. What’s not to like?

    The Obama Family Portrait

    and a bonus:

    First Lady Michelle Obama
    10 @ 10 with Jay Leno

    8) ~ Δ

  148. oopssorry. Neglected to proof read previous post. Right hand improving but not very reliable at times. Besides right hand is the scroll past the troll hand and it gets tired!

  149. JuneauJoe – glad to see your posts.
    Matthew -please post something so we know Helen is okay. WE are worriied.
    It’s pbvious the troll doesn’t know m any 80+year olllds. There are a looof us around. WE had good teachers, learned our lessons well and still use good grammar. Also we learned manners, politeness,something which seems to be miiiissing in your makeup.
    Hope Helen comes back soon. My computer is having trouble loading all the posts!!

  150. It looks like you have a great site here. I will be checking back often. Once again, Great website, and great writing.

    God Bless, Pastor Dan

  151. We are all battling the flu. which means every room has a Kleenex box, sometime two kleenex boxes. And yesterday after a hearty meal of venison meat, my greyhound celebrated by plucking every tissue out of the living room box and decorating the house with them. He was very pleased with himself.

  152. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 10/24/09

    Working with
    Small Business
    to Drive Recovery

    PEACE ~ Δ

  153. squirrels, part 3
    can’t get this to stick,

    I believe, and would like confirmation if others find this to be true, that rodents are on the ascendancy. I’ve always liked the idea of cats being the next dominant species when we finally succeed in making the earth totally uninhabitable by any other than cockroaches, starlings and rodents. I don’t believe dogs are independent enough to take over our place. I certainly hope it’s not the rodents who become supreme.

  154. Poolman, thanks for the squirrels. My son and a friend actually DID fish for squirrels..he was 5 or 6, we had gone camping in the Adirondacks late June, it was cold and rainy, we had taken fishing gear for the kids. The place was overrun with baby animals, the mother duck and babies swam by each campsite on the lake to ask for handouts, and the baby squirrels were acting like kids, running around. My son invented the game (no hook, bread tied to the line) The squirrels hung on and were picked up. The kids might have gotten tired of the game before the squirrels.

  155. testing because my computer is acting out.

    Delurker Girl Δ, I was going to post that I use mayo but thought people would think it was too weird. Thank you for posting that idea. Actually, I don’t use it on salmon but love it on bluefish (oily Long Isand native fish) with toasted, ground fennel seed in the mayo.

  156. Tine, I make my salmon the same way, but I use mayo instead of yogurt. I will try it your way!

  157. Here is a new link from the Mudflats that you might enjoy:


  158. Hi gang,

    This is an e mail forward that just came in from a friend. We had not seen it before. I want to share it with my friends here at M&Hs.

    “What would you do?….you make the choice. Don’t look for a punch line, there isn’t one. Read it anyway. My question is: Would you have made the same choice?

    At a fundraising dinner for a school that serves children with learning disabilities, the father of one of the students delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by all who attended. After extolling the school and its dedicated staff, he offered a question:

    ‘When not interfered with by outside influences, everything nature does is done with perfection.

    Yet my son, Shay, cannot learn things as other children do. He cannot understand things as other children do.

    Where is the natural order of things in my son?’

    The audience was stilled by the query.

    The father continued. ‘I believe that when a child like Shay, who was mentally and physically disabled, comes into the world, an opportunity to realize true human nature presents itself, and it comes in the way other people treat that child.’

    Then he told the following story:

    Shay and I had walked past a park where some boys Shay knew were playing baseball. Shay asked, ‘Do you think they’ll let me play?’ I knew that most of the boys would not want someone like Shay on their team, but as a father I also understood that if my son were allowed to play, it would give him a much-needed sense of belonging and some confidence to be accepted by others in spite of his handicaps.

    I approached one of the boys on the field and asked (not expecting much) if Shay could play. The boy looked around for guidance and said, ‘We’re losing by six runs and the game is in the eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team and we’ll try to put him in to bat in the ninth inning.’

    Shay struggled over to the team’s bench and, with a broad smile, put on a team shirt. I watched with a small tear in my eye and warmth in my heart. The boys saw my joy at my son being accepted.

    In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shay’s team scored a few runs but was still behind by three.

    In the top of the ninth inning, Shay put on a glove and played in the right field. Even though no hits came his way, he was obviously ecstatic just to be in the game and on the field, grinning from ear to ear as I waved to him from the stands.

    In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shay’s team scored again.

    Now, with two outs and the bases loaded, the potential winning run was on base and Shay was scheduled to be next at bat.

    At this juncture, do they let Shay bat and give away their chance to win the game?

    Surprisingly, Shay was given the bat. Everyone knew that a hit was all but impossible because Shay didn’t even know how to hold the bat properly, much less connect with the ball.

    However, as Shay stepped up to the
    plate, the pitcher, recognizing that the other team was putting winning aside for this moment in Shay’s life, moved in a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shay could at least make contact.

    The first pitch came and Shay swung clumsily and missed.

    The pitcher again took a few steps forward to toss the ball softly towards Shay.

    As the pitch came in, Shay swung at the ball and hit a slow ground ball right back to the pitcher.

    The game would now be over.

    The pitcher picked up the soft grounder and could have easily thrown the ball to the first baseman.

    Shay would have been out and that would have been the end of the game.

    Instead, the pitcher overthrew the ball, right over the first baseman’s head, out of reach of all team mates.

    Everyone from the stands and both teams started yelling, ‘Shay, run to first! Run to first!’

    Never in his life had Shay ever run that far, but he made it to first base..

    He scampered down the baseline, wide-eyed and startled.

    Everyone yelled, ‘Run to second, run to second!’

    Catching his breath, Shay awkwardly ran towards second, gleaming and struggling to make it to the base.

    By the time Shay rounded towards second base, the right fielder had the ball, the smallest guy on their team who now had his first chance to be the hero for his team.

    He could have thrown the ball to the second baseman for the tag, but he understood the pitcher’s intentions so he, too, intentionally threw the ball high and far over the third-baseman’s head.

    Shay ran toward third base deliriously as the runners ahead of him circled the bases toward home.

    All were screaming, ‘Shay, Shay, Shay, all the way Shay!’

    Shay reached third base because the opposing shortstop ran to help him by turning him in the direction of third base, and shouted, ‘Run to third!

    Shay, run to third!’

    As Shay rounded third, the boys from both teams, and the spectators, were on their feet screaming, ‘Shay, run home! Run home!’

    Shay ran to home, stepped on the plate, and was cheered as the hero who hit the grand slam and won the game for his team.

    ‘That day’, said the father softly with tears now rolling down his face, ‘the boys from both teams helped bring a piece of true love and humanity into this world’.

    Shay didn’t make it to another summer. He died that winter, having never forgotten being the hero and making me so happy, and coming home and seeing his Mother tearfully embrace her little hero of the day!”

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  159. There are a lot of ways to see squirrels.

    BANZAI Squirrel Fishing

  160. 1/2 c. plain yogurt
    1/4 c. any grated cheese (I like Parmesan)
    2-3 tbsp. minced onion
    generous dash of lemon pepper
    generous dash of dried dill
    1 lg. salmon filet

    Preheat oven to 425F. Place salmon filet in pan. Mix first 5 ingredients and spread on top of salmon filet. Bake uncovered 10 min. per inch of filet’s thickness. Broil for 2 min.

    Yum. Not only do hubby and I like it; our kids gobble it up. So it must be tasty, right?

  161. Thanks jsri

  162. part II
    Chipmunks dig tunnels every where. I filled in the space under our stone path four times. We’re currently at a standoff, I fill, they dig out. I fill with water and more sand, they dig it out. They only eat cherry tomatoes from the garden and since I lost most of the tomatoes to late blight this year anyway, they were less of a problem in the garden.(thank you Walmart and those other big box stores for bringing it to our area… it’s what caused the “Great potato famine” in Ireland).

  163. Craig:

    I know this may come as a shock to you but I don’t always read every line of your stuff all the time, especially your racist rants. They are too offensive and have no redeeming value. But you are correct in that I totally missed the attribution to Charlie Leck of the piece you offered and, as a consequence, I assumed that what I was reading was an original submitted by you. I suppose if I had more time I would have caught my mistake so in the future I will scrutinize your writings a little more closely to make sure that whatever I am reading is your own work and not something you have pirated from someone else.

  164. I forgot myself today, Troll will take any kind of attention bad, as well as good. I’m with you Jean, scroll baby scroll.

  165. part II
    Chipmunks dig tunnels every where. I filled in the space under our stone path four times. We’re currently at a standoff, I fill, they dig out. I fill with water and more sand, they dig it out. They only eat cherry tomatoes from the garden and since I lost most of the tomatoes to late blight this year anyway, they were less of a problem in the garden.(thank you Walmart and those other big box stores for bringing it to our area… it’s what caused the “Great potato famine” in Ireland).

    I believe, and would like confirmation if others find this to be true, that rodents are on the ascendancy. I’ve always liked the idea of cats being the next dominant species when we finally succeed in making the earth totally uninhabitable by any other than cockroaches, starlings and rodents. I don’t believe dogs are independent enough to take over our place. I certainly hope it’s not the rodents who become supreme.

  166. 5th try part II will follow as soon as wordpress allows it to follow

  167. 5th try, part I
    Last winter, I trapped and transported 5 flying squirrels from the space behind my upstairs bathtub. Luckily, I had made an access panel in the bottom of the linen closet to get at the pipes, so could put the traps in that way. Actually, I don’t know if it was 5 squirrels or just 4 and one repeat offender, since they’re addicted to peanut butter and would consider another go around just to get some.

    This summer I trapped 5 woodchucks who had built a tunnel from my front deck, under the foundation to come out under the back screen porch. That gave them easy access to my vegetable garden where they single mindedly cleaned out my Tuscan kale and every radicchio they found. They hit the kale three times, every time it grew back. Also found woodchucks under 3 porches of landscape clients.

    The voles are my biggest headache. They cleaned out a 2×8 row of Siberian irises. They severed the bottom of the entire row of pole beans, just killing the plants and getting almost nothing for the effort.
    They’re also a problem with several garden clients.

  168. I’m proud to say that Anthony Weiner is from New York State. Actually, I had to look him up to see where exactly, turns out from Queens county. The shape of his district is pretty strange, but apparently, that is not unusual.


    A part of his district covers the Jamaica Bay Wildlife reserve. I’m pretty sure that’s a good thing for the reserve.

  169. Hi gang,

    This is ABSOLUTELY and POSITIVELY the very last time I will refer to our current troll-du-jour. Does anyone remember COLORFUL and What’s-his-name who graced us with their presence for a while?

    I have my scroll finger poised and at the ready whenever I see the name again.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  170. Hi gang and Poolman,

    I’m with you about Anthony Weiner. He has turned up as a guest on a number of TV shows of late. He is articulate and makes a lot of sense to me. A rare politician who can think on his feet with CURRENT facts and figures on the tip of his tongue. Here’s a young man to keep our eyes on. A rising star!

    He reminds me of the first few times I saw and heard Obama.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  171. I just made a past dish, variation on one I’ve used for awhile, cook whole wheat pasta. whatever shape you want but I like a sprouted wheat ribbon shape from Trader Joe’s. Saute a bunch of garlic (3-4 cloves slivered) cook a couple of Italian sausages (substitute tofu if you don’t eat meat) in some olive oil, a little hot pepper flake, LOTS of chopped escarole and/or radicchio (I grow it in the garden so have the outside leaves to use for stuff other that salad) and a hand full of shell beans or other cooked beans, cook until the green stuff is tender, dump it on the pasta, add grated cheese and tonight I added a bit of Feta cheese because that’s what was in the frig. A friend varies this using eggplant and tofu. Lots of different combinations would be good. We’ve learned to like it much better than the usual red sauce.

  172. Ooh, salmon. I’ve got a great one. Will post it after I get the varmints in bed. :)

  173. Donna, I agree with everything you just wrote except one thing, rodents are smart LOL!! ;)

  174. It sounds good, tomorrow I’ll try it.

  175. no one’s puppet

    Had some great salmon, with onions, lemon

    and leaks, potatoes and onions

    It was so very good.

  176. Craig:
    - You are a perfect example on why Republicans lost the election last Nov.
    -You are also a perfect example of why only 20% of people say they are Republican compared to 4 months ago when it was 25%

    Keep chattering – You are sounding more pathetic with each post.

  177. Anyone tried any good recipes lately?

  178. And a rabies carrier.

  179. beady little eyes…oversized teeth…chattering mindlessly away…yup.

  180. Squirrel in the attic. Yup. I can get on board with that. Annoying, noisy, hyperactive rodent with terrible manners and a pea-size brain.

  181. much better way of putting it. A troll is defined by its propensity of writing things on blogs solely to get a reaction. Craig has conceded that’s exactly what he tries to do. However, he’s almost numbingly clumsy and dull in his efforts.

  182. Craig, you’re called a troll for your behavior, not for the crap you claim to believe.

  183. yeah, I thought “Black man in black face” was a wee bit racist.

    In fact, as I think about it, this particular troll fits perfectly with the descriptions of the Congresswoman from Minnesota…one taco short of a combo plate. Saying crap and apparently too dumb to realize it. Having such blunt social antennae that he thinks he’s amusing when his “humor” is at an 8 year old’s level. Desperate for attention and validation and so lacking in insight that he actually thinks his comments offer anything of value. What a complete zero.

  184. The “Squirrel in the attic”
    or the bats in the belfry fellow always slams back with a racist or homophobia comment. Sick as they come.

  185. Craig–let me try it this way since you seem to be fairly slow at comprehending things. I don’t think you “grate” on anyone because you march to a different “tune.” You grate on people because you are boring and not very bright. You have no original thought and apparently no capacity for critical thinking. You parrot de-bunked canards. And, at bottom, you don’t understand the difference between a genuine debate of ideas and the “nyah, nyah” insults of a poorly raised and unappealing child.

    You congratulate yourself on “stirring things up.” But you don’t do so by offering anything of merit or interest. You come on the site, you say things that are insulting, stupid, banal, or all three. And then you whine that people don’t want to hear differing points of view. No, they just don’t want to read your bullshit–and that is what it is.

    “Squirrel in the attic” is an apt metaphor in the sense that you are, indeed, a rodent. But please do not fancy yourself as anything approaching an intelligent representative of opposing viewpoints. You’re unusual only in the extent of your dullness.

  186. Delurker Girl Δ
    Obama..Do away with Christmas…
    Nope …they have to keep up the charade a little longer before they pull out the month long Kwanzaa celebrations.

  187. “The fictional Helen Philpot (they’ve changed names for security reasons, as I mention above) was born in 1926. She would have entered college in about 1926 or ’27 and gotten out in about 1932. Yet, she reminisces recently about Cliff Notes Books which didn’t appear on or around college campuses until 1958. I guess there’s no reason why she wouldn’t have seen them around the bookstores!”

    Wait a minute…Helen or whoever she is was born in 1926 and went to college in 1926? Man, she’s a genius who was out of college by the time most of us just make first grade!

  188. “The fictional Helen Philpot (they’ve changed names for security reasons, as I mention above) was born in 1926. She would have entered college in about 1926 or ’27 and gotten out in about 1932. Yet, she reminisces recently about Cliff Notes Books which didn’t appear on or around college campuses until 1958. I guess there’s no reason why she wouldn’t have seen them around the bookstores!:

    Wait a minute…Helen or whoever she is was born in 1926 and went to college in 1926? Man, she’s a genius who was out of college by the time most of us just make first grade!

  189. jsri on October 23, 2009
    Read the first sentence of the posting again at 10:02

    and I quote..some guy or person wrote about M&H..and his name was “CHARLIE LECK”

    “Helen & Margaret are a couple of young girls at Smith!
    by Charlie Leck”

    and TINE
    “3) Nobody here really cares whether M&H are real. We’ve been over this a hundred times. Its the writing in M&H’s posts that most of us love, as well as the discussion forum those posts have created.”

    Well they are late with the mail then cause its been a month .. Like lookin at the heavens waiting for the great one to appear.

    I had no idea someone had questioned the existence of M&H before I did…or even proposed.
    Wow..someone must have taken a big can of WhoopAss for that one before I arrived.

    Have I at all Lambasted,called you names..said you were stupid for your beliefs?

    The fact that you know when I post..I’m not hiding somehting..

    I’ve had some good exchanges about things other than politics…

    BUT SOME want this site to be about them and them alone.

    Heck for two days I watched recipes being exchanged. Now there.
    I feel better.

    Why the TROLL monicker?
    …..because I don’t like Pelosi or some other
    liberal democrats.

    I’m just not marchin to your tune..and it grates on a lot of you.

    And JuneauJoe Δ where are the trillions of dollars of financial relief?
    Right where you would expect them to be, in the hands of Lobbyist’s
    Where is this main street relief?

    My God could you just get your man in the Big House to make a decision with some balls and support our boys rather than letting them hang out there waiting for Rom Emanual to tell him what to do.

    OK ..Just consider me the Squirrel in the attic that won’t go away…
    That is unless you can convince Matthew to eradicate me. Or does Matthew even exist?

    It really does not matter as someone said whether M&H really exist…
    They have done what they intended.

    hey Claire..ever seen the movie
    Blazing Saddles?
    The fart scene is the best
    More beans Mr. Taggert?

    That was to stir debate…NOT tell
    someone to go away.

  190. For a very good reason Margaret and Helen remain private individuals, they are smart. Trolls are fanatics and no one, but no one wants an extremist nut job literally hanging out on their porch. Every time some well intended fan of Margaret and Helen suggest they seek publicity, appear on Oprah or another show, I just cringe, that a troll suggests “outing” them makes me even more apprehensive for their safety.

  191. Oh dear. None of the trolls shared the news that Obama is doing away with Christmas at the White House! There will only be holiday trees, and religious themed ornaments are bannd! We’ve already lost ‘In God We Trust’ on coins. All this and Obamacare killing premature babies, too. What is this world coming to?

  192. We live in a world with 2 wars (minimum),
    40 million without health care and an attempt to help all get health care,
    debt (I suggest we consider the wars when we look at debt and Bush Policies),
    joblessness (and republicans blocking extending unemployment), Bush crew left the economy on the brink a year ago,
    Rape in Iraq of a US woman but she cannot go to court.
    I could add more but will stop here.


    True Republican! Rush did not get in the NFL – THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END because of it! I need to see Beck – NOW! Rush – are they 80?
    Craig – you are sad!

  193. Here is your direct quote:

    There are a number of things, however, that keep making me think they’re phony. The syntax and vocabulary slips from time to time and sounds much too young for a couple of old geezers.

    By: CraigΔ on October 23, 2009 at 10:02 AM

  194. “First off I resent the term old geezers just as you would be insulted by being referred to as a puerile snot nose. And as for their vocabulary and syntax, like H&M, we too have had children and grandchildren so our ability to slip in and out of a generation’s vernacular is no big deal.”
    “puerile snot nose”..I do have a cold today.

    In all my posts..I do not believe I used the term geezers.

    I tried to do some research about M&H to see if she ,He , they are for “real”
    Kinda like the saucers we talked about last week.
    The article I copied and pasted was given credit to the man who wrote about M&H.

    Look at the posting again..Thanks

    Helen & Margaret are a couple of young girls at Smith!
    by Charlie Leck

    Now Like those flying saucers..what we need are someone who officially knows them..to come forward and identify them as 83 year old hipsters
    they propose to be.

    Has there been any sightings?

  195. By: CraigΔ on October 23, 2009 at 10:02 AM

    You noted : “The fictional Helen Philpot . . . . was born in 1926. She would have entered college in about 1926 or ’27 and gotten out in about 1932.”

    WOW! Talk about a child prodigy! I’m impressed. A college grad at 5. No wonder she has such a following.

    But about Cliff Notes? My wife and I were college students during the same era that M&H were in college (1940’s & 1950’s) and we both remember course notes, especially for Literature classes. They may not have been CliffsNotes but something comparable was available at that time. My wife used to buy them at the Harvard Coop Bookstore and thinks they might have been called Hi Lites. When Cliff Hillegass started his notes in 1958, he was so successful that Cliff Notes became a generic term for such course guides much the way Kleenex and Xerox are generic product terms.

    Craig: You also noted: “There are a number of things, however, that keep making me think they’re phony. The syntax and vocabulary slips from time to time and sounds much too young for a couple of old geezers.”

    First off I resent the term old geezers just as you would be insulted by being referred to as a puerile snot nose. And as for their vocabulary and syntax, like H&M, we too have had children and grandchildren so our ability to slip in and out of a generation’s vernacular is no big deal.

    I think it’s about time for you to find another target for your obtuse commentary.

  196. I vote we ignore the trolls! It’s hard because they are so impossibly dim but I’ll try to do better disregarding the nasty, boring little things.

  197. If a troll farts in the forest do you smell it?

  198. NO Bunn Bunn…

    Just a black man in black face trying to be Santa Clause to all the liberals who got coal in their socks for the past 8 years.

    If a troll falls in the forest do you hear it ?

    No one has any personality or humor.

    I think the Smith Girls AKA Helen and Margaret have taken a hike.

  199. I don’t think you can base anything on when Cliff Notes came into use. Maybe they went back to school late. Maybe they remember their children using them. Pretty weak if that is what you’re basing your “Margaret & Helen aren’t real” essay on.

    Basically, who cares who they are? There is a long and revered tradition of writing under “pen names” in the US. Ben Franklin was an enthusiastic practitioner. Doesn’t it matter more what they say than who they really are?

  200. M&H 101 for Dummies…
    …I mean trolls…
    …I mean Craig.

    1) Liberals are, by definition, open-minded. They don’t take any source as gospel. They gather info from all over. They *think* about stuff and make up their *own* minds.

    2) This is a conversation. A community. There are all kinds of topics afloat at any one time. People may respond to you, but they’re responding to others too. If you want to participate, pay attention and *think* about your responses. If you just want to throw stinkbombs and watch for a reaction, don’t pout when people plug their noses and turn the other way. Or yell at you for being so juvenile.

    3) Nobody here really cares whether M&H are real. We’ve been over this a hundred times. Its the writing in M&H’s posts that most of us love, as well as the discussion forum those posts have created.

  201. A democrat is watering down the amendment to allow rape cases to go to court.


  202. And I guess there is no big man in the clouds…

  203. You mean there’s no Easter Bunny, either? lol

  204. I do know (I read Harry Potter) trolls are smelly.

  205. I am pretty sure there isn’t a Mrs, Butterworth, or Mrs. Folgers, but I still consume their product, and love every last drop!.. ;-)

  206. Personally I don’t care Nor do I care that there is or isn’t a Santa, Father Christmas or St Lucia. What I do care about is the message they all bring to the table!

  207. Helen & Margaret are a couple of young girls at Smith!
    by Charlie Leck

    Helen and Margaret write one of the most popular blogs on the web. They are a couple of very elderly, old girls — both are in their 80s — and they have millions of readers.

    It’s Helen who does most of the posting. When Margaret does write, one really can pick up the style difference between the two. Very recently, Helen has been reviewing, chapter by chapter, Ann Coulter’s newest book, Guilty. An example of her quick and rapier style wit and her brilliant writing is demonstrated in the review of chapter three of Coulter’s work. [read it] This writing, it seems to me, comes from a professional and I think that’s what the actual person behind Helen really is.

    Oh what the hell, I’ll still go and read the frauds (if they are frauds) because they’re funny, fun and witty. I’ll just keep pretending that they are old broads who have hit on extraordinary success.

    There are a number of things, however, that keep making me think they’re phony. The syntax and vocabulary slips from time to time and sounds much too young for a couple of old geezers.

    Though some people claim they can’t find any anyone with those names in the regions in which they’re supposed to live, those folks must have missed Helen’s explanation that they are writing under pen-names because Helen’s grandson thought it would provide them more security. It all gets much too complex and only underlines the feeling they are fictional.

    If these two old girls were for real, they’d have been invited to speak at some of the most popular colleges and universities in America. Big money in that, girls! I’d travel pretty far to see the two of them in person and to hear them speak.

    The fictional Helen Philpot (they’ve changed names for security reasons, as I mention above) was born in 1926. She would have entered college in about 1926 or ’27 and gotten out in about 1932. Yet, she reminisces recently about Cliff Notes Books which didn’t appear on or around college campuses until 1958. I guess there’s no reason why she wouldn’t have seen them around the bookstores!

    Well, real or not, Helen kept me highly entertained all during the campaign (the months and months and months of it) and I kind of fell in love with her. If she turns out to be a fake, it won’t be the first time I was jilted by a bogus dame.

    And, Helen keeps on cooking, even now that the race is over and part of history. She loves to take on the Coulter chick and Rush Limbaugh, too.

    I’m confused about the question we’re working on here. What do you think? Are they the real deal? Or are they a couple of goofy, funny girls at Smith?

  208. Exactly delurker girl… above all else he knows how to make money and he plans on doing just that.

  209. With his ratings slipping and his sponsors ditching him, his plan has some holes in it. Apparently you can’t take facts out of context and twist them for maximum controversy & hate and be considered a bankable newsman. Who knew?

    Maybe his real plan was to become extreme and hate filled enough to get offered a lucrative contract from Fox. He’s playing that card well. He’ll fit right in there.

  210. It must be sad to be so emotionally stunted that you get a charge out of trying to provoke a reaction. Of course, since trolls don’t identify themselves (other than the Gone But Not Missed Kathleen Wynne), they are cowards. It’s the equivalent of a six year old making a prank phone call and hanging up.

  211. Oh Lou lou lou…. I do have to feel sorry for the old bloat, he was so conflicted. He is a firm lover of money and “capitalism” but yet he is a fear filled white guy and let us NOT forget he wants to make as much money as he can before he retires…. Don’t we all?????? So many problems not enough time.. What to do?

    He said screw it… The most lucritive way for me to lean is towards an angry white guy…. He followed Rushbo’s lead ( and others) and here we are …go to another cable station that has no competetion and hence can make tons of bucks before he goes home to his Tara…. Who can blame him?

  212. Trolls think they are Paul Revere, but alas they are trolls.

  213. “A Coward who hides behind a five year girl, ”
    whats this?
    I thought if it was on CNN ..you all thought it was gospel?

    YOU mean he just makes this stuff up from Congress?
    Come on..Your not that gullible?

    I know you all watch FOX..but you do it very quietly ..behind closed curtains so your neighbors won’t see.

  214. Lou Dobbs is CNN’s troll, LOL!

  215. Anyone here not know that Lou Dobbs is a jingoist? Haven’t known it for years? Give a damn about anything Dobbs has to say on the subject?

  216. Lou Dobbs is an idiot. He perpetuates the birther nonsense, he endorses the thoroughly discredited Jerome Corsi. As I understand it, he is currently being courted by Fox and is likely to move there.

  217. Lou Dobbs, fear & hate monger:


  218. A Coward who hides behind a five year girl, well I know what I think of him.

  219. This is a must watch!
    I KNEW this was going to happen. (That way Obama wasn’t lying when he said illegals would not be able to get medical coverage under his ObamaCare plan. His simple fix is to make them all legal first.)
    Lou Dobbs of CNN commenting about a current amnesty bill …


    Pass this on after you watch it. NOTICE THAT THIS IS FROM CNN, NOT FOX!!!
    This from CNN news:

    [video src="http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888/name/ftc-vi26..wmv" /]

    This 2-minute video should be mandatory viewing for every US citizen.

  220. Helen — Haven’t heard from you in a while, so hope you, Margaret, and all whom you love are OK. Looking forward to your next post!

  221. The flip side to any bully is a coward

  222. LOL well obviously you are not an fing bitch Claire…. and that “gentleman” was not only ignorant but a nasty human being!

    My father’s mantra was don’t get mad get even…… and I guess you got even..;-)

  223. PS: Same guy told me that I was going to have to leave the country when McCain was elected president. Haven’t seen him since, LOL!

  224. Yes, I remember when people were civil and courteous to one another even if they disagreed on an issue. There was no name calling and hatred, ala FAUX News, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, etc.
    What that parent did to his child smacks of child abuse to me, teaching an innocent to hate to please their parent? SCARY!
    Personally, I have been called a(n) “F#$%&ing Liberal Bitch!” at the top of one right winger’s lungs during a discussion about election issues.
    Like your proverbial schoolyard bully. Pathetic.

  225. I certainly agree NOP. It was just one more illustration of HOW far we have come as a society. ;-( That father felt very comfortable with his behavior, the trolls that visit here, and almost ALL political sites I have visited, feel VERY comfortable with their mean spirited, nasty, and yes sometimes vulgar behavior… sad … really sad….

  226. It is one thing to have political differences, but teaching children to hate is a form of child abuse and making your child use vulgar language is truely sick.

  227. LOL and yes I know that is the wrong weather… I’m blaming the faux pas on the trolls… that’s my story and I’m sticking to it..;-) namaste all

  228. I have been exposed to politics for a long, long time. A close relative was a congressman for 28 years. I literally cut my teeth on a campaign button! I have worked/ran/volunteered/interned for politicians for 32 years on the national, state, and local level. Suffice it to say I have seen my share of partisans (on both sides of the aisle) and partisan politics. It use to be that you were able to “debate’ (argue) like hell with your opponent ABOUT an issue and then after the debate go out and get a drink together. I remember one year when there was a particularly difficult campaign and the politics became pretty heated, we ended up winning, but it wasn’t by much and nerves were frayed when election day rolled around. Several days after the election I went to my mail box and there was an invitation to our opponents’ anniversary party waiting for me. The funny thing is I wasn’t surprised…. back then…..It was normal, over the course of the campaigns members of both staffs get to know each other and their families and more often than not remain “Christmas card friends”, at the very least long after the campaigns are over. There have always been republican/democrat leaning newspapers/radio stations/news organizations that gave favorable press to the candidate of their party. That was part of being in politics if you were thin skinned you best not run for office OR work in politics. However the editors and journalists were likely to be the first ones to send you a condolance card when you lost a family member, or visit you in the hospital when your child was born.

    That is why I am STILL surprised when I hear and read the level of vitriol that exists in today’s politics. Last Halloween I had a little girl, maybe 5-6 years old, come to my door trick or treating, I could tell she was embarrassed and shy – Chalked it up to the event until I handed her the candy and this tiny little angelic face looked up at me and said in a hurried fashion, “OBAMA SUCKS ASS”, and then ran to her father waiting out at the sidewalk. The father was pumping his fist in the air SCREAMING “that’s my girl!” Apparently the “gentleman” took great umbrage with the Obama sign in my front yard. That minute is when I knew our society had changed forever, and not for the better.

    So when a troll comes visiting my front porch weather trick or treating or just eatin pie, it doesn’t surprise me, it just makes me sad…. very sad…

  229. “A new study by Representative Anthony Weiner (D – Queens & Brooklyn), member of the Health Subcommittee and Co-Chair of the Caucus on the Middle Class, revealed that 151 members of the House and Senate currently receive government-funded; government-administered single-payer health care – Medicare.

    On the list of recipients are 55 Republicans who have steadfastly opposed other Americans getting the public option, like the one they have chosen.”

    Way to go Anthony Weiner!

  230. By: Pamela Δ on October 21, 2009 at 7:48 PM

    Among other things you posted: “Maybe you do want to consider some alternatives, jsri.”

    I wasn’t seeking your presumptuous advice so let me give you some personal history. Thirty years ago my employer enrolled us in a local HMO, a relatively new concept in the region. It had more nurse practitioners than MD’s. The nurses could not write prescriptions so some of them took it upon themselves to offer advice on alternatives. During most of the seven years I was there I was given advice on alternatives for blood pressure problems, prostate hyperplasia and low thyroid. The so-called treatments were available in nutrition centers and were expensive but colossal failures. Only after I went to an MD and got legitimate prescriptions were these conditions brought under control.

    Friends and family fared no better. Earlier, in the 70’s, wives of two colleagues were diagnosed with breast cancer and both went the laetrile route. Needless to say, their misery was long and their deaths were ugly. Even 25 years ago, my niece was diagnosed with breast cancer. Despite my warnings to her parents she listened to an alternative “therapist” but when the untreated cancer metastasized it was too late to do anything. She was 28 and left a devastated husband and three children under six.

    I was invited to do a presentation at the Chinese Academy of Aeronautics in Beijing in the late 1980’s. A member of the group I was traveling with was afflicted with intense diarrhea and stomach pains and was taken to a Chinese herbalist for treatment. The concoction of herbs, spices and bugs brains had no effect. When I talked with the scientists and engineers at Beijing Univ, they were appalled that our tour leader would seek out a Chinese herbalist. They all went to MD’s trained in western medicine. They recommended an MD who found that the sick person had a treatable intestinal parasite which is not so hard to believe because many rice fields in China at the time were still using night soil as fertilizer.

    About eight years ago, my wife developed a serious skin condition that mocked psoriasis. Several of her friends brought her salves and ointments that they guaranteed would take care of her problem. They failed. Her primary care physician finally convinced her to consult an oncologist who discovered that she had Cutaneous T-Cell Lymphoma, an auto-immune disease. After a long series of treatments the condition is still not cured (there is no cure), but it has been stabilized. And my late brother, who recently succumbed to Alzheimers went both the traditional medicine as well as the alternate route. Neither had any effect on the condition.

    In the early 90’s I came across a website, Quackwatch, that relentlessly chases down and has debunked a lot of alternative medicine claims. I haven’t looked at it lately but I believe it still exists. But whenever I hear outrageous “healing” claims, I go there first.

    And I don’t need a lecture about how “iatrogenic(doctor-related) causes and Prescription Drugs Are The Leading Cause of Hospitalization and Death in the US, Causing over 250,000 Hospital Related Deaths” because if we closed all the hospitals and clinics and fired all the MD’s and turned over our medical needs to purveyors of herbs and spices, these numbers would increase ten fold.

  231. Hi gang,

    It’s a sure sign that we are hurting for a new post from M&H when we are reduced to talking about trolls. But here I go.

    I’ve been thinking as I listen to Conservatives/Republicans on TV or read what they have to say in the papers and news magazines and of course here at M&Hs. I do not ever volunteer to tune into Fox or other obviously radical rightwing blah, blah, blah. That would be a waste of my time.

    Here is what I am concluding. First of all, they are consistently SO defensive about what they are NOT! NOT racist, NOT sexist, NOT just about anything and NOT FOR just about anything. There is one exception only. It has to do and revolves around the ’TAXPAYER’S DOLLARS’!!!!!

    The analogy here is of handing someone a text to read and the only thing the person can see is a typo here and there. No insight into the gist of the text whatsoever or of being able to see the overall whole. Just hypercritically zeroing in on the typos. This is indicative of an inability to even conceive of deductive reasoning. Once a concept has been grasped, then it is ever so easy to go back and correct a few typos. However, some people are totally incapable of getting beyond the ‘nitpick-the-typo-stage’.

    As is so often pointed out, the ‘trolls’ have every right to come here to this blog and post whatever they like. Fine. A troll is happy to sit down, gorge on pies that other have baked and graciously served. Then he proceeds to barf all over the table and otherwise make a complete horse’s ass of himself by recycling the same tired old NOTs! and recycled ‘Talking Points’ we have all heard thousands of times before. Talk about boring. Still, as the old adage goes, I guess a troll is more to be pitied than scorned.

    If you will please excuse me, I will just move myself to a different chair on the porch out of the way so I don’t get splattered with troll vomit.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  232. I have many, many heroes on this site.
    Thank you humbly for your compliment, Donna. There have been many different RESPECTFUL opinions (especially regarding religion) vs. the sewage/spewage of ones who try to reel us back in and then show their stupid true (troll) colors. I will not allow any troll shit in my world, I don’t hear a thing.
    Except for my yawning when they repeat the same old FAUX bumper sticker mentality=BORING! Not sure why some of you keep inviting them on the porch.
    Not my biggest concern, want to know if my gals and Matthew are okay.

  233. Claire–you are my hero du jour. I couldn’t agree more.

  234. tomgnh, I am pretty sure that was Limpball’s intention.
    There is a neighbor of mine who used to be a Dem and now he listens (and believes!) (and LIKES!) Osama Bin Limbaugh. I used to be attracted to him until I realized he had lost his mind…

  235. TROLL(S), you are irrelevant, go piss and moan somewhere else, you are not worth the time of day. Scroll, baby, SCROLL the stupid troll.
    Do not even acknowledge this piece of poop, scrape it off your shoe!
    Go tune back in to Glenn Blecch, et. al. You are a waste of time, space and oxygen in my world.
    Much more importantly, I am very concerned about Helen and Margaret and Matthew.

  236. I think a major part of Rush’s problem was that he would wind up “owning” some African-American players after the comments he has made.

  237. Margaret and Helen,

    Please come back soon………….really miss you and your fabulous writing. Hope you are both well. I check daily just to see your take on whatever happens to be going on on that particular day. You’re always right on the money!

  238. Post It Note on my Computer:

    “I will not feed the Troll”

    Matthew, please let us know how Margaret and Helen are.

  239. Craig:

    Talk real news!


    What do you think? Defensible?

  240. Craig – RUSH IS CALLING! He wants you back at his site!

    Rush gets 400 Million for making up facts and lies. He gets upset when he is called on his stupidity.

    I do not feel sorry for Rush or you!

    Craig: You are a sad individual. Go talk to Rush and Beck. (Can you cry like Beck by the way?)

  241. Raji ..
    AS for looking for a job right now..no.

    But in one of my first interviews at a radio station. The manager said it was too bad that I wasn’t black or a female and he could have hired me right then.

    Hey what do you think about Rush not getting to be a partner with a group to buy a football team?

    I mean he gets nailed for something he says a while back and the cultural police are right there.
    I guess thats kinda like that minister that Obama knew and had to get rid of then there was the black czar…etc..tit for tat.
    Remember what Howard Cossell once said about black football players?

  242. PalinShutUp Δ

    Hey I’ve missed you too.
    I did some further research and..
    I found out some more information about this give away …that this came from an earlier time before our current resident President
    was in office.

    But it sure does smell like an “entitlement program.”
    Walks and quacks like a duck.

    “Let’s see what the point is supposed to be.”

    “1) All welfare recipients are black.” No thats not exactly right.. you can have white, black and brown girls of color be “working girls”.

    “2) All blacks are welfare recipients.”
    Nope we have our share of residents from the South and and the ones who got here first. That would be what we call “high yeller” or closer to being Spanish rather than the Indian mix.

    We are also the proud holder of one of the highest rate of STD’s and children having children than any where else in Texas.

    Overall most of the time around here they just shoplift what they want from Wally Mart and get their pics with one minute of blurry grainy video or stills…on the television or newspaper and the narrator or editor asking, have you seen these people?”
    Hey if nothing else, this lets the extended family on the other side of the river know that “they” are alive and prospering over here….and that the check is in the telegram.

    3) Since there is no problem getting or keeping a job in America if you want one, all these people are just lazy (and violent, sexual criminals, to boot).”
    bangers can be mexcan,white klan, people of african american heritage and relatives of President Jefferson.

    But if YOU have ever had a gun pointed at your forehead and a knife held at your side..LIKE I HAVE HAD…YOU tend to not really take in a lot of detailed info on the perps..other than the color of their skin and how young they were.

    Then you give then whatever they want,car keys, wallet, my girlfriends purse..and then be told not to follow when they turn and run off into the dark of a college campus.

    I was lucky ..one kid laughed at them and he got the butt of the gun upside his face. Four couples robbed at gunpoint in 45 minutes.
    Then if you want a really funny experience that will waste your time…go down to the jail and look thru 4 LARGE books of black mug shots.
    The above was a true and scary experience
    at the age of 22.
    So no..I don’t have any preconceived notions
    or thoughts about people. I just couldn’t listen to soul music for a long time.

    And 6 years later at work in a university, I was having a discussion with a black male a black female and a white receptionist. We all worked in the same department and it was early. During our discussion something came up that the “black” gentleman said that I really could not believe…

    and I said “BOY YOU GOTTA BE KIDDIN ME” this was not a racist conversation in any way shape or form. But HE stopped cold and looked at me and said I needed to apologize to him.
    I said for what?
    He said you just called me boy.
    I was at a complete loss. I told him I had no racial intention in my comment but he turned to the three women and they agreed with him that ‘I” had made a derogatory comment.
    I had not meant anything by my statement and I would have said the exact same thing to any body…
    BUT he played the RACE card…and I was forced to apologize for my comment.

    So its easy to nail someone for sexual or racial
    comments. Just take them out of context..mix with years of being a black person in the south
    or a woman who has hit the glass ceiling and
    BAM..Your nailed.

    I did stick up for a black bus driver one day.
    He was our regular school bus driver for high school. But after he let us off in the afternoon, he was going to transport me downtown for a veterans day parade, since I didn’t drive yet.

    He had one more school to pick up on a local military base. These kids hurled insult after insult at him and about him.He just kept quiet. I had my ROTC uniform on and I stood up and told them that all of them would be reported..they just did not really care..it was funny to them. He got me downtown..and I said I was sorry for what the kids had said. I was embarrassed..then he said not to worry and that he had heard a lot worse before.

    My wife use to travel with her nurse who was black throughout west Texas. They not only had a working relationship, but were good friends as well. One night late..around 9:00 pm they stopped at a small local restaurant. They went in and sat down waiting for water and menu.
    The owner or waitress came over and said they were closed.
    So my wife and her nurse went out and say in the car and tried to figure where to go next since it was getting late. Then another car of people drive up go in ..sit down and are served. Apparently
    it was too late to serve blacks.

    So ..in short..I’m not a racist. I just don’t believe that one group of people, male/female, black/hispanic or white should be granted extra
    rights or provisions just because of their color and or status. But I live in Texas.

    And hey..if we want something to go the way we want..we just invent new voters by having the dead vote..such as LBJ did way back in his earlier Senate days in Texas. Thats probably quite common in Chicago.

  243. Thoughtful Texan Farmer

    A bus load of politicians were driving down a Texas country road # R 44,
    when all of a sudden, the bus ran off the road and crashed into a tree
    in an old farmer’s field. The old farmer, after seeing what had happened,
    went over to investigate. He then proceeded to dig a hole to bury the politicians.
    A few days later the local sheriff came out, saw the crashed bus, and
    asked the old farmer where all the politicians had gone. The old farmer said he had buried them.

    The sheriff asked the old farmer, ‘Were they all dead?’
    The old farmer replied, ‘Well, some of them said they weren’t, but you know how they lie.’

    Keith in NM

  244. Health Insurance is denied to women who got raped!


  245. I bet Dick Cheney has something to do with the disappearance of Margarat and Helen.

  246. A couple of things: Alan Grayson will be on Hardball tonight;

    Sen. Inhouye of Hawaii is planning to GUT Sen Frankens amendment regarding criminal prosecution of DoD contractors (KBR) involved in rape cases. Please contact Inhouye’s office to let him know that is unacceptable – that RAPE is not a human resources issue but a CRIME

  247. well, well, well

    I see good old craigy is up to his old tricks

    blaming the free cell phone thing on Obama lol!! pathetic

    what’s next? the Iraqui war?

    *rolling my eyes*

    came to check up on the gang and M & H, hope everyone is healthy

  248. Poolman: “Please no one make any mistakes. What craig posted from Snopes was the copy of the email that is circulating regarding the cell phone issue.”

    Oh, anybody who takes the trouble to read it can see that right away. They have the e-mail, followed by the debunking. There’s also a little blurb at the beginning that leads you to expect the debunking.

    It’s just the same old inaccurate nonsense, coupled with a big steaming pile of ick, expressed in racial dialect.

    Let’s see what the point is supposed to be. 1) All welfare recipients are black. 2) All blacks are welfare recipients. 3) Since there is no problem getting or keeping a job in America if you want one, all these people are just lazy (and violent, sexual criminals, to boot).

    His mother must be so proud.

  249. OK, check this out and maybe make a few phone calls to N Dakota for Moveon.org to get constituents there to call the obviously conservative (D) Kent Conrad (who has previously voted against the public option) to stand for the public option.


    its easy as pie and hopefully makes a difference in getting our po…. no, not po ed …. though if we don’t get our po I will definitely be poed.

    Grayson really got me with his polite refusal to yield his time… you rock!

    I called Congressman Paul Broun’s office this morning to inquire if he’s caught any of the Muslim intern spies yet but no ones calling me back. He must be out running them down… Senator Chambliss’ office is evidently so deluged with calls that they can’t get a line out to call me back.

  250. Helen is missing!!!!

    You check the Republicans….I’ll check Ann Coulter’s house…

  251. LOL with Joe… will you yield your time? NO! LOL I ,love it…

  252. Alan Grayson is GREAT!


  253. I think they rolled off the ship.

  254. Is there anything we can do????
    This is too strange…it has been almost a whole month!!!! Matthew could at least give us some kind of update or message that at least everything is okay with them.

  255. http://www.Margaret & Helen = Waiting, Wondering and Worrying
    Hope everybody is ok.
    And for cryin’ out loud, people, quit feeding the trolls!

  256. Jesus walks into a crowded cafe and sees all the tables are full of people. There are two empty barstools at the counter–one on each end. Jesus sees that he must choose to sit next to Craig or sit next to a “hoe”.

    I think we all know which seat Jesus chooses.

    Margaret and Helen,
    We miss you.

    Everyone have a good day!

  257. Add me to the worrywart contingent. It’s been an exceptionally long time since M&H’s last post. Hope you are both well, Helen and Margaret. And you too, Matthew!

  258. I’m guessing that something is wrong with the grandson, Mathew…since he is the one that posts Margaret and Helen’s writings for them as they create them…at least that is what I have gathered from past posts and the other sections.

    I do hope we hear SOMETHING soon….I’m the worrying type.

  259. Craig, once again you have rattled the cage just to get a response. If you had done any checking you would have found the following information. Apparently you have not been job hunting recently or you would know all job interviews are conducted by phone/computer. By the time you get a personal interview you are almost assured the job. All unemployed people who receive unemployment benefits are welfare recipients and that could be your next door neighbor. Are these the “bangers and hoes” you are referring to?


    Lifeline Assistance provides discounts on basic monthly service at the primary residence for qualified telephone subscribers. These discounts can be up to $10.00 per month, depending on your state.

    Link-Up America helps income-eligible consumers initiate telephone service. This program pays one-half (up to a maximum of $30) of the initial installation fee for a traditional, wireline telephone or activation fee for a wireless telephone for a primary residence. It also allows participants to pay the remaining amount they owe on a deferred schedule, interest-free

    Who Pays for the Lifeline and Link-Up Programs?

    All telecommunications service providers and certain other providers of telecommunications must contribute to the federal USF based on a percentage of their interstate and international end-user telecommunications revenues. These companies include wireline phone companies, wireless phone companies, paging service companies, and certain Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers.

  260. Oh I didn’t realize that was your little boy poolman, I thought it was just part of your businesses advertisement! I am sorry I didn’t comment on him before.

    He is adorable poolman..;-)

    and of course our little Marie (sp?) is beautiful!

    Pamela, I am sorry to say that as long as there is soooo much money to be made by the drug companies we aren’t going to see much progress being made on the more natural remedies and as long as we continue to allow such lucrative and liberal compensations for persons who have been harmed by a drug, we will continue to be denied access to “good drugs”…. But lets keep our fingers crossed!

  261. Tine and Poolman, beautiful children, now I can see them.

  262. I’m inclined to believe said troll might not have any real interest in politics or any other subject here; they just like to get attention by raising other people’s ire. That is why I no longer directly address them or refer to them by name. Ever notice how their writing style goes back and forth from English to semi-literate, I am no expert, but that doesn’t seem normal.

  263. Craig – you are sad…. I really do think you need to quit this site and go enjoy Rush, Oreilly and Beck.

    You are a troll.

  264. Please no one make any mistakes. What craig posted from Snopes was the copy of the email that is circulating regarding the cell phone issue. It is not the explanation of what is the truth.

    The issue raised was not one of why they should have cell phones or not, it was in a negative light for the Obama administration. It is not his program; it is a government program. Government does not = Obama. We still have a democracy in the country regardless of what some people choose not to believe.

    My chain was not pulled in the least. I actually feel sorry for you in that you feel the need to be as inflammatory as possible to get a reaction. Welfare does not = bangers and hos. And nothing in any of my response bashed you in the least. But maybe if you say it enough times you can still play the woe is me card.

    You come and ask to join, you play nice for a while and then you put up some stupid issue that is easily fact checked and then you put groups of people down. Old and tired tactics. Maybe you should go sit at the kids table if you can’t behave nicely and rationally at the big table.

    Troll is as troll does.

  265. I love this Grayson guy!

  266. Pamela, Zicam worked great! That’s how you know it’s gonna get pulled from the market! (Not making light of side effects people had)

  267. kitkat, my apologies, I hadn’t heard that Zicam had been pulled from the market….. I used it years ago very successfully and don’t use it now because I order my own zinc citrate lozenges that do indeed help prevent one from getting sick and get you over colds quicker. Obviously, I can’t keep up with everything out in the market …. I was going on my experience with it in the past. I shop in the drug stores about as often as I go to Wal Marts….nada!

    It is kinda strange to me how people are so quick to trash the concept of using something natural without comparing the damages inflicted by both over the counter medicine as well as drugs. Lets see here: approximately 800 people complained of loss of smell using Zycam’s zinc glucanate from 1999 till 2009.

    In October 2007, an FDA advisory panel recommended that no cold or cough medicines be given to children under six. The cold and cough medicines in question include:

    cough suppressants (dextromethorphan or DM)
    cough expectorants ( guaifenesin)
    decongestants (pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine)
    antihistamines (such as brompheniramine, chlorpheniramine, diphenhydramine [ Benadryl] and others)

    ….”reports between 1999 and 2006 of 60 children under age 6 dying from decongestants or antihistamines.”

    “A recent study conducted by the CDC (Center for Disease Control) indicates that cough and cold medicine can be harmful and potentially deadly when given to a young child under the age of two. The most common reason for death was an overdose of common medication used to relieve cold symptoms.”

    “Three infants died in 2005 in South Carolina as a direct result of their cold medicine….. Thousands of young children were hospitalized and may very well suffer long term side effects as a result of parents or doctors who thought they were helping relieve their uncomfortable cold symptoms using over the counter cold medicine.”

    Or how about just taking good old Tylenol and other medications containing its active ingredient, acetaminophen. Acetaminophen can be highly toxic. At Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, acetaminophen is the #1 cause of acute liver failure.

    At Parkland over a 40-month period from 1992 to 1995, 71 patients were treated for acetaminophen overdoses, according to an article published in The New England Journal of Medicine by Drs. Frank V. Schiodt, Fedja A. Rochling, Donna L. Casey, and William M. Lee from the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center. Five of the 71 patients died while the remaining 66 recovered, after hospital stays ranging up to almost 2 months in length.”

    Here’s a figure for you, jsri

    “Iatrogenic(doctor-related) causes and Prescription Drugs Are The Leading Cause of Hospitalization and Death in the US, Causing over 250,000 Hospital Related Deaths Every Year; Prescription Drugs are Responsible for over 100,000 Deaths Every Year”

    No, we’re not talking about loss of smell for short. periods of time here, we’re talking deaths. Maybe you do want to consider some alternatives, jsri.

  268. I’m not even a bible thumper, and it bothers me when people mutter/yell/curse “Jesus Christ.” It just rubs me the wrong way, I guess.

    I’ve heard some people shout, “cheese ‘n’ rice!” instead. I kinda like that one. It’s silly, but gets the point across.

    Looks like child the elder (Tony, age 6) is getting sick now too. I’m choosing to think positive…hope it will be the same relatively mild bug Maria had. But he goes to a large public school, so we’re dealing with a bigger set of virus vectors this time. Sigh.

  269. Delurker Girl Δ, I was just having the same thought, but wasn’t going there. :grin:

  270. Poolman, Rush is god to some, and to himself. He’ll work nicely.

  271. Thor, god of thunder and war, is another good nominee.

  272. Alaskan, great catch!

    Poolman, great link. No one’s puppet, what I saw as a challenge was the references to discrepancies in the Bible when to a believer the Bible is the word of God. It’s OK for others to believe differently than I do, but if what I believe in is questioned then I will dig as Poolman did.

    Craig, I know your attention span is poor but please try to focus. You are not bashed for tipping right. You get bashed for your manners. You know it, and you enjoy it, or you wouldn’t be here. And yes, I suppose you get flack sometimes for faithfully parroting things without research. And the word is drivel, not dribble. I hope you liked it a lot wherever you were the past few days while we were here not missing you.

  273. I nominate Zeus.

  274. no one’s puppetΔ thanks. I guess I got a little defensive. Just wish someone else’s god would roll off people’s tongues if they must curse.

  275. Craig, I bet your wife makes you wear a bell.

  276. A joke…

    Surely you can take a joke..maybe not..But I thought it was appropriate and forwarded it on..thought you all would like it.

    John was in the fertilized egg business.

    He had several hundred young layers (hens), called ‘pullets,’ and ten roosters to fertilize the eggs.

    He kept records, and any rooster not performing
    went into the soup pot and was replaced.

    This took a lot of time, so he bought some tiny bells and attached them to his roosters.

    Each bell had a different tone, so he could tell from a distance, which rooster was performing.

    Now, he could sit on the porch And fill out an efficiency report by just listening to the bells.

    John’s favorite rooster, old Butch, was a very fine specimen, but this morning he noticed old Butch’s bell hadn’t rung at all!

    When he went to investigate, he saw the other roosters were busy chasing pullets, bells-a-ringing, but the pullets, hearing the roosters coming, could run for cover.

    To John’s amazement, old Butch had his bell in his beak, so it couldn’t ring.

    He’d sneak up on a pullet, do his job and walk on to the next one.

    John was so proud of old Butch, he entered him in the Renfrew County Fair
    and he became an overnight sensation among the judges.

    The result was the judges not only awarded old Butch the No Bell Piece Prize but they also awarded him the Pulletsurprise as well.

    Clearly old Butch was a politician in the making.

    Who else but a politician could figure out
    how to win two of the most highly coveted awards

    on our planet by being the best at sneaking up on the populace and screwing them when they weren’t paying attention.

    Vote carefully this year,

    the bells are not always audible.

  277. Because I reveal something you wish to ignore you bash the mailman.

    Yes I knew you would not like the stereotypes..or the ebonic phrasing.. but your thread has a common voice that is anything other than demeaning to people who do not share your love for all things Obama.

    Is providing free cell phones and minutes a right or a privilege?

    Should my tax dollars pay for someone to have a cell phone?


    If it was started by Obama or a previous administration..It has democrat written all over it.
    “Come on Craig, tell it like it really is. How do you pin this on this administration when it started in the previous?” snopes.com: Free Cell Phones for Welfare Recipients ••••
    An Obama administration program provides free cell phones and cellular service to welfare recipients?
    …Phone Home Claim: An Obama administration program provides free cell phones and cellular service to welfare recipients Example: [Collected via…
    …phone number. I asked the former employee if this was a new cell phone number and he told me yes this was his “Obama phone.” I asked him what an “Obama…
    …welfare recipients are now eligible to receive (1) a FREE new phone and (2) approx 70 minutes of FREE minutes every month. I was a little skeptical so I…
    Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:41:19 GMT http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp

    I’m still at the table and still ready to retort.
    You can bash people all you want but last time I looked M&H let anyone sit at the table as long as they did not use derogatory language against each other or use the “N”word.

    Lets face it..this is your own little world that allows you freedom to ask questions get answers,exchange recipes, look for medical cures and in short kibitz.

    Alaskan..Did I pull your chain? I used ebonics and referred to social sterotypes that none of us like living on our street or associating with.

    “The bangers and hoes are really gonna be trippin on this one.
    Our tax dollars… their rights?
    One mo way of redistributing the money honey.”

    You took offense to the above?
    Should our tax dollars go to any of the above for their business or pleasure?

    no one’s puppetΔ..”Troll Paper trained?”
    Not as long as God gave me the right to expouse my beliefs as you do.. and again I throw it right back in your face.

    Many who criticize me for my speech and beliefs are living in glass houses when it comes to
    their own dribble.
    Fork is up and ready for pie.

  278. I guess the troll isn’t paper trained yet.

  279. Poolman, I am happy your faith has grown stronger; it must be a real comfort to be a believer. Personally, I don’t think you were challenged; some of us merely expressed our theological opinions. Since I am an agnostic, neither convinced there is a god nor convinced there is not a god. I have no need to convince anyone of anything. I am happily married to a Deist; we can easily discuss religion because we respect each other’s right to their own viewpoint.

  280. By the way, your characterizations of people who you deem not worthy are very offensive.

    You ask to sit at the table and then you disparage entire groups of people. Quite disappointing.

  281. http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp

    I assume I will not be the only one to mention this, but it is not hard to do a little fact checking. The cell phone program is not an Obama program and not only for welfare recipients. It is an emergency phone program developed prior to the Obama administration.

    Come on Craig, tell it like it really is. How do you pin this on this administration when it started in the previous?

  282. Well as we wait (im)patiently on the porch for Helen and Margaret to entertain us with a new and witty post, I have been busy researching and reading.

    Anytime someone challenges my beliefs, It is a good thing because it causes me to question and learn. A real truthseeker will look almost everywhere to hone his or her beliefs as I believe we should be doing continually. This is not a time for complacency, if anytime ever was.

    So this latest challenge has been good for me. I have learned much and it has actually strengthened my faith. I was unaware of this movement before it was posted here in this thread. I feel the need to share resources with any other seekers of truth that are not afraid of a challenge. Otherwise, scroll baby, scroll…

    It just does not hold up to scrutiny

  283. Margaret and Helen,
    Say it aint so!

    Obama and his Buds are giving out free cell phones.
    Have you heard of this program?

    (1) a FREE new phone and (2) approx 70 minutes of FREE minutes every month. I was a little skeptical so I Googled it and low and behold its the truth.



    What next a new TV and cable for people on welfare…? The bangers and hoes are really gonna be trippin on this one.

    Our tax dollars… their rights?
    One mo way of redistributing the money honey.

    Now don’t go gettin your drawers in a wad because I used ebonics rather than Kings English.

  284. Maybe someone can give us an update. I sure love M& H and miss the essays. Just a sentence..Is someone ill or on vacation or just fed up.?.It would be appreciated because I have come to adore the author of this site and getting a little concerned.

  285. Thanks all. jsri, I agree about being cautious and I asked Pamela for advice because I didn’t know where to start in researching supplements. After being so sick, I know my body needs a boost. I have used Zicam in the past but stopped once I heard about the problems associated with it.

  286. Margaret and Helen,

    I’m with JuneauJoe. I sure miss your comments and hope you’re ok.

  287. Jean

    Like many people, I love music but am a total dud when it comes to playing. I can’t even read music but my appreciation of it runs an eclectic gamut from A to Z. On the other hand, the next generations in our family are into it in a big way. Our daughter-in-law is principal oboist in a nearby community symphony orchestra and last week was featured in a presentation of A Somerset Rhapsody, a lesser known piece by G. Holst. The oboe is considered by many musicians to be the most difficult instrument to play and her precise but nuanced performance was flawless. I can’t tell you what a treat it was to watch our son watching his beautiful and talented wife capture the audience so completely. It was truly an emotional experience.

    Their oldest son is off in a different musical direction. He is a pretty cool dude, an in-demand drummer in several local rock and jazz bands, but his real forte is math. What will happen to his music after he starts college next year is anyone’s guess. He scored 800 in the math SAT and the high 700’s in everything else and I suspect that music will eventually become his hobby. But the relationship between math and music is pretty common. His mother was a music major and math minor in college.

    Jean, I’m also getting a little concerned about Helen. This has been an unusual time lag and has gotten filled in by irrelevancies without her leadership. Discussions about God, UFO’s and alternative therapies always seem to go nowhere.

  288. Margaret and Helen,

    I sure miss your comments.

  289. LOL @ Pamela: “I’m still waiting for Richard Gerakitis to call me back from my message this am, though he may not have appreciated my wishing that he doesn’t get himself raped in any of his government work…. couldn’t help myself if I was a bit snitty”.

    I wholeheartedly agree that Zicam should be avoided. I personally know of one young man who only used Zicam once and has lost his sense of smell and taste, apparently permanently. I think Cold-Eeze (zinc lozenges) are iffy, also.

  290. Kitkat:

    You have to be careful getting medical advice on the Internet especially when it involves “alternative” therapies. If you value your sense of smell and taste you should probably avoid Zicam. It is already involved in a slew of court cases ( over 400 so far) and in June this year the FDA advised consumers to avoid using it. It has an active ingredient, zinc gluconate, that is alleged to be the problem

  291. Kitkat, I’m glad you’re starting to feel better. I was wondering how you were doing.

  292. Hi gang,

    I’m starting to get a little alarmed. It has been such a long time since a M&H post. I hope they are all right. There are so many topics in the news and pending. Maybe they are having a hard time picking one. But here’s one. Recently both President and Mrs. Obama were talking about volunteer work.

    A while back, I told you I would tell you about my ophthalmologist and what he and some of his colleagues do. He belongs to an organization called the “Aloha Medical Mission” that has been going on for years. (You can Google it.) Each year for the past 25 years, they have put on a benefit concert at the Blaisdell Center in Honolulu. The Blaisdell is Honolulu’s answer to Lincoln Center, the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion and such. The concert is hosted by anchors from the local TV news network affiliates. The next concert will be in December.

    The Aloha Medical Mission has been providing free medical and dental care for clinics in Hawaii and fourteen nations in Asia. There are over 20 clinics in Hawaii alone that have served well over 200,000 patients as of last year. It has some 3,500 volunteers. The doctors from various specialties donate their time and skills. The fund-raiser is for supplies and transportation.

    The title of the concert is “Four Doctors, a Patient and the Mayor”. They play to a packed house every year. All four of the doctors are accomplished classical pianists.

    The first one is nationally honored and distinguished in the field of ophthalmology.

    The second performer, a woman, is an Orthopedic Surgeon, specializing in Sports Medicine, Orthopedic and Reconstructive Surgery. She and first doctor performed a two-piano piece in addition to their solos.

    The third is a Cancer Specialist who has participated in overseas missions every single year for 30 years.

    The last doctor is our ophthalmologist, a Johns Hopkins and Columbia University graduate, and in my opinion the best pianist of the four!

    The featured artist is an articulate young man from the Philippines. This is his story. His twin brother was treated for advanced cancer in both eyes and subsequently died. As a child, the boy’s mother was astonished to hear him playing the same piano music his dead brother had played! Unfortunately, the boy also developed cancer in both eyes. He was brought to Hawaii for treatment at age 7. Both eyes were removed and he was fitted with glass eyes. In time he was awarded a scholarship to study music at the Academy for the Performing Arts.

    In the concert he played classical, original compositions and also jazz as a trio with a guitar and drum set.

    The last performer was the Honolulu mayor. He sang “Unforgettable” with a lovely young singer, accompanied by the young man on the piano and a larger group with backup singers. The mayor did a mean Elvis with “I Can’t Help Falling in Love with You!” Several other numbers included audience participation.

    The concert had something for everybody! A thoroughly enjoyable evening. I have the DVDs from the past several years. If you had been in the audience, it would not be necessary to mention that the performers were multi-racial and multi-ethnic.

    At the end, all the performers returned to the stage, draped up to their ears with flower and maile leis. (Maile is a rather rare fragrant vine that grows wild up in the mountains. It is worn hanging open down to the knees at weddings and special occasions, especially by men.)

    The grand finale was everyone, audience included, singing “Aloha Oe!”

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

    P. S. To me, this only one example and I’m sure there are many, many more across the country of Real Americans like these!

  293. This is an interesting site I found that gives some good information about big Pharma and vaccines. They have a link to Alan Grayson’s “Republican Health Care Plan”, so that says much for the site, IMHO. Anyway I know we are mainly focused on Health Insurance Companies as the devil, but these Pharma companies are heartless when it comes to profits.


    JuneauJoe Δ, that’s our asshat Kyl screwing with the unemployment. That guy has his hand in everything stupid, it seems. Somebody needs to take him out behind the shed. I can’t wait to vote against him.

  294. kitkat, I didn’t know you’d been sick or lawd knows, I would have already volunteered “stuff”. I don’t have time right now to go back and read up on what’s going on with you but I’m guessing you got something like the flu? Do you need to boost the immune system or calm it down as in too strong of an auto immune response? Hopefully, the former as its so much easier to treat, though the later is doable just much more involved and takes time and dedication.

    First off, get yourself some zinc, both in losenges (Progressive labs makes a good one but so do so many companies) and in tablets. If you have a health store near by, get 1,000 mg bioflavonoids capsules with Rutin, hesperin, quercetin, etc and take 3k per day for the next week. See if they have astragalus either by itself or in an immune tonic or even order one on line…. ping wei san is a really nice Chinese herbal for boosting the immune system. Also anything with Reishi in it would be good. You know you can order these things on line if you don’t have a health food store near by. The next time you feel you’re beginning to fight something, the drugstores carry a great homeopathic to prevent succumbing to flus and colds called Zycam. It works great!

    I could keep going but maybe that will get you started back on the road to health. Gotta get my butt to bed. Have a speedy recovery

  295. 2 Republicans are blocking extending unemployment benefits.

    We have high unemployment so 2 Republicans block extending benefits! 7000 people are losing benefits every day – sad.


  296. Republicans for Rape website


    They are deserving of this! Glad to see someone was good enough to put the KBR Rapes in a Republican perspective.

  297. Lori, thanks for your thoughts. Been reading “yinz guys”, just haven’t been up to much else. Finally feel half human today and I ask Pamela — what can I do to boost my immune system? I may actually venture outside tomorrow for the first time in over a week.

    And Tine, so glad your sweet little one is ok.

  298. “Anyone know if they have the silly little interview section like Playboy accompanying the centerfold?”
    no one’s puppetΔ

    Thats like taking pleasure in someone else’s pain.
    Not the sort of thing that would look good on anyones front porch.

    I’m pretty sure you would not want that, if it were on the other shoe.

  299. Thanks Easier, we are kind of attached to him. He looks like his dad who is native American. He has dual cowlicks on the back of his head like 2 opposing tornados. Quite a pistol. Ahhh….the fascination of youth. :grin: We are into everything Star Wars right now.

    On another note: Both our asshat senators voted to allow rape! :mad: I let them know I wasn’t very happy. Idiots. Corporate Reps.

  300. I must admit, I think she’s a cutie too. But I’m pretty sure I’m hardwired to think that — mainly so I won’t give in to the occasional temptation to wring her sassy little neck. ;)

    Speaking of neck-wringing… I’d sure like to get my paws on those 30 disgusting senators. I’m glad my own weren’t among them. Go Al!

  301. I only have trouble with those who say ‘my God is the only true God and all you others are non believers going straight to (HELL).’ (insert word of choice”

    HRH Sophia, I agree with your statement wholeheartedly.

    Tine, your baby girl is beautiful. Glad she is doing better.

    Poolman, not to be partial to girls, your grandson sure is cute!

  302. I stopped watching television awhile ago except for Keith Olbermann and the first 20 minutes of Rachel Maddow. The 2-3 programs I watch other than these two, we watch on Hulu or Netflicks (Jon Stewart mostly and we’re running out of “As time goes by”). I don’t know how to do it but my husband does and it’s his job to find entertainment for us while I cook dinner. I used to flip through the channels looking for stuff that wasn’t completely boring but had no luck at all. So I’ve seen Oprah once or twice. I found Ellen D. a little more interesting but frankly, I don’t have the patience for these people. So I guess I’ll have to catch the interview on the internet when someone posts a clip. I must admit, I do have a morbid fascination for the Palin, she is the personification of dumb, but since I found Margaret and Helen while reading the Mudflats, I really can’t complain.

  303. Sarah Quitter Plain & Simple, love it Greytdog, that is one Oprah I won’t miss. Think she’ll be able to answer the questions?

  304. I hope Margaret and Helen return soon. I need a sanity fix.

  305. LOL Oh sorry gretdog I guess I should refresh before I post… sorry!

  306. did yinzs see this? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/20/palin-to-appear-on-oprah-day-before-tell-all-released/

    I know PSU will have her tivo set! ;-)

    and a shout out to kitkat hope you are feeling better!

  307. Apparently Sarah Quitter Plain & Simple will be on Oprah at the end of the month. That should be interesting – except I’m not a fan of either one of them.

  308. Claire, only if you drink something like a gallon of the large particle silver solutions per day. That guy really had to work hard to do that. What’s out there in your health food stores are nano particles, where you’re getting around 10 ppm, so no blue you!

    I’m still waiting for Richard Gerakitis to call me back from my message this am, though he may not have appreciated my wishing that he doesn’t get himself raped in any of his government work…. couldn’t help myself if I was a bit snitty

  309. With Levi you get grandma Sarah and she is alway good for a laugh.

  310. Very interesting article:

    Senior Citizens League Mailer The Holy Grail Of Elderly Scare Tactics

    Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/20/senior-citizens-league-ma_n_327583.html

    Keith in NM

  311. No, no, no – no one’s puppetΔ. Levi’s not worthy of our fine ladies’ superior wit and wisdom. I say hit Faux while they’re down. A good one-two punch would do nicely.

  312. The Mudflats » Republicans for Rape http://bit.ly/2gF8pK

  313. Pamela, apparently I am in your district, too. Let’s not forget to write ol’ Johnny Isakson, either.
    And Rep. (DR.) Tom Price. His wife is running for city council in my town. Ugh, I have read some of her right wing spews in our local paper, cannot stomach her. But seeing as she is married to DR. Tom Price, that is not too surprising. He is the big teabagger in these parts.
    Hey, if we use colloidal silver, we won’t turn blue like the Blue Man, will we?

  314. I am gonna make sure Senator Chambliss gets an ear full this morning and I hope his mother spanks him till he turns BLUE.

    These are the 30 Republican senators who voted against Senator Franken’s bill that withholds government contracts from companies like Halliburtons KBR.

    Damn…. and I just told a girlfriend yesterday that I wasn’t getting mad any more about the insanities in politics, I was speaking out, reaching out and seeking a higher ground… hmm… well, I’m spitting mad now and I think I’m gonna throw some mud at my Senator Chambliss.

    Ten GOP Senators voted for the amendment, and it passed — but the 30 others need to know we’re p##@ed that they didn’t vote for giving legal rights to rape victims! These senators are: Alexander (R-TN), Barrasso (R-WY), Bond (R-MO), Brownback (R-KS), Bunning (R-KY), Burr (R-NC), Chambliss (R-GA), Coburn (R-OK), Cochran (R-MS), Corker (R-TN), Cornyn (R-TX), Crapo (R-ID), DeMint (R-SC), Ensign (R-NV), Enzi (R-WY), Graham (R-SC), Gregg (R-NH), Inhofe (R-OK), Isakson (R-GA), Johanns (R-NE), Kyl (R-AZ), McCain (R-AZ), McConnell (R-KY), Risch (R-ID), Roberts (R-KS), Sessions (R-AL), Shelby (R-AL), Thune (R-SD), Vitter (R-LA) and Wicker (R-MS).

    I do love Senator Al! He’s tuff!

    Swine flu can’t stand up to 3 drops of oregano oil on a tsp of honey couple times a day, colloidal silver used as gargle and in a netti pot, couple thousand mgs of bioflavonoids a day, and zinc several times a day.

  315. Before Helen writes a new post, I want to make my prediction; I think she will appraise Levi Johnson’s Playgirl spread. Anyone know if they have the silly little interview section like Playboy accompanying the centerfold? Oh yeah, she won’t be able to resist.

  316. Seriously…if I could harness Maria’s kinetic energy, I could solve the world’s climate change problems! :)

  317. Δ¥ Tine, I finally figured out why I wasn’t able to see your lovely little one like others here. I had been using Firefox instead of Internet Explorer. Her face shows on I.E. but not on Firefox.

    3 yr olds are a wonder to behold. Their energy alone could power a small city.

    Glad to hear she’s back to her usual job, making her Mom happy.

  318. Good Morning porch dwellers! In light of the recent discussions concerning faith & theology, you might find the following article interesting:
    Associated Baptist Press – Fear Not: What does virtual rumor-mongering say about Christians? http://bit.ly/41EraQ

  319. Tine, Thanks to Delurker Girl, I was able to see your little Maria’s pretty face. Hope she is back to normal real soon.

  320. Juneau Joe,

    Thanks for that post. Here’s another one. Quite slanted towards the left, but most of us on this site seem to be anyway. Jaime Leigh Jones woke up to find her body bruised, vaginal and anal tears, breast implants ruptured, and torn pectoral muscles. The evidence that was eventually collected was “lost” by KBR. As this article states, the ironic thing is we’re there to “protect” Iraqi women…


    A “cold and flu” recipe that we use (I’m an ER nurse) is a tea made from cinnamon sticks and oregano. Boil until it’s a nice amber, strain, add lemon and honey. It’s very soothing as well. Again all, be safe!

  321. Al Franken asking questions in the Iraq rape case that KBR wants to keep out of court.


  322. “I only have trouble with those who say ‘my God is the only true God and all you others are non believers going straight to (HELL).’ (insert word of choice”

    Yes. Exactly.

  323. Easier, I don’t believe you are weak if you need GOD to survive in the world. The thing I love about humanity is the diversification. I think we’re all different, not good or bad. As Δ¥ Tine said, “many paths.” I only have trouble with those who say “my God is the only true God and all you others are non believers going straight to (HELL).” (insert word of choice) I have found them in all the religions I have experience with. I guess I’ve given up on absolutes, now that I’m sort of grown up.

  324. On a slightly different, but parallel line, I also remember learning the Pledge of Allegiance in first grade, reciting it with authority in second grade and then being mightily outraged when they told me I had to relearn a part of it in third grade (to include the “in God we trust” part). I guess in my younger days I was looking for absolutes. Only later discovered there are none.

  325. HRH Sophia EQ, my thoughts align very closely with yours. Including — and especially — the Henry VIII bit. When I understood what he’d done, it really put a whammy on my understanding of religion. But it didn’t kill my spirituality. In a funny way, that revelation was the beginning of an expansion of my spirituality.

    I’m totally with you on the idea that the nature of God is unknowable in full. I think we are all capable of experiencing bits of the divine presence. And I believe that every religion built upon the foundation of love offers a valid — and partial — understanding of the divine.

    One way, many paths. One house, many rooms.

  326. “For the life of every living thing is in his hand, and the breath of all humanity.” Job 12:10

    “The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” John 3:8

    “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24

  327. I am one of those that could not make it without GOD. I admit it, maybe it is a weakness on my part, but well, so be it. Whether Jesus has been here or not, or whether he is an invention, for the masses, it is my personal belief that he was a messenger of God like other messengers before him. Humanity needs that connection with a higher power, or so many civilizations would not have felt the need to “invent” God through the ages. Every culture on earth has a name for God. From time to time a messenger comes to earth to reinforce that need in a very powerful manner. I also know on a certain level that the message Jesus tried to convey has been corrupted. It is a simple message really. “Love thy neighbor as you would love yourself”. Such a powerful message! However, his message having been spread through fear, intimidation, war, and the list goes on, kind of weakened it. Christianity survived in spite of itself, but survive it did.

    Having said all that, I do not believe you have to be a member of any organized church or religion to feel that connection with a higher power.

  328. I think Helen has died…

  329. Whirled Peas, thanks for the link to “The Fraud of the Age”. I, too, agree. If anyone would be interested in some very good reading on this subject pick up the book “The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold”. This should answer any questions. A very well researched book.

  330. Anne said
    “When I found out about all these inconsistancies, and many others (like the fact that no one can seem to agree about when Jesus was born, where, and why his parents were traveling, other than the fact that there was a prophesy that the son of God would be born in Nazareth, so he had to be gotten there somehow) that’s when I decided it was finally time to admit to myself what I’d secretly been feeling for as long as I could remember…”

    I had a similar experience, I believe I was about 14 or so. I had studied European history which includes King Henry VIII in England. I began doubting when I learned that he was able to just build a NEW religion when the ‘other’ religion wouldn’t let him get rid of a wife to get another. It seemed to me that if religion was ‘law’ or ‘truth’ or somesuch, it was kinda concrete and unchangeable. I was pretty young and naive.

    But I won’t go so far as to say that I don’t believe in God. I’m not hedging my bets, I just believe that, by definition, the nature of God is unknowable (at least while we’re alive, don’t know about after) I feel comfortable with that concept, I know many people need an image of God to get through the day and function. Without that image they become immobilized by fear of the unknown.

    If there is a being such as God, I believe that we can communicate directly with him/her and shouldn’t require an intermediary to do so. I believe a great deal of “religion” is social ordering and does, in some cases, prevent social chaos. In other cases it has been hijacked by groups and used for their own ends, sometimes to create chaos.

    (I actually don’t believe that God is a “being” but rather a much larger idea that we probably don’t have a word for.)

  331. Our universe is set so that a tiny variation would not allow our planet or life to exist. Certain things like continental drift and massive extinctions happened just right to let humans evolve. That argues for a something’s planning for our existance or a massive series of coincidences.

    People lived and created societies for thousands of years before anything was put to writing. I think the creation myths are relics of unimaginably old religious thought. It is possible a matriarchal religion dominated the world until people began to farm. Adam’s first wife, the feminist Lilith may be a survivor from another time. It doesn’t cost anything to believe in God, and if there is none, it won’t matter because existence will end.

    Whatever gods we worship are created in our own image. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist.

    I am morose today after trying to support an e friend who just heard the news. We knew a lady for nearly three years on a message board we no longer frequent. She called her mother and told her life was too much for her. She put some of her possessions and ID on a park bench. Then, she walked a few feet and dived off a cliff. She was about 35.

    A friend sent me this e mail. “This is International Disturbed People’s Day. Please send an encouraging message to a disturbed friend as I’ve just done.”

  332. Auntie, what does it mean if the ONLY symptom i have is the uncontrollable urge you mentioned?

  333. Hi gang,

    What say we lighten up a bit on a Monday while we’re waiting for M&H to give us a new post?

    Adult symptoms of the Swine Flu:



    Body aches

    An uncontrollable urge to have sex in the mud.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  334. UAW, I skimmed recent posts and read about your problems and other people’s. I wish I could help.

    UFOs exist because by their definition they are what we can’t identify. That doesn’t mean they are space ships or visitors from another dimension.

    Anita Dunn, the White House Communications Director described how the campaign manipulated news by controlling their message in such a way the story the news media reported was the one the campaign wanted reported.

    The Obama campaign understood intuitively that the internet was weakening the power of the old media to control information sent into the general culture, and they used it to full advantage. Hillary’s and McCain’s campaigns were clueless, and their inability to control the news message as the Obamas did contributed to their defeat.

    Another politician who understands this is Sarah Palin. Though a poll showed her at number three of possible Republican candidates, she has turned facebook into a potent political weapon. As of today, she would be Obama’s most dangerous foe in an election. That’s not saying much, because she occupies a vacume.

    Republicans and other Democrats need to recognize Dunn’s analysis of the political-media landscape as correct and adapt to new conditions. Moreover, the media had best adapt too if it wants to survive in a meaningful way.

  335. Whirled, I’m with you. I used to believe a person named Jesus existed at one time until I found out about all the similarities between him and all kinds of other sons of gods who we now believe are mythical. Of course Jesus shows up in the Q’ran. A lot of the stories in the Q’ran were taken directly from the bible. There is also the strange fact that everyone seems to have forgotten about his for about 60 years until they suddenly remembered and began writing about him. What’s the story about the guy who fell off his horse and had a vision and because a saint? Yeah, he’d never heard of Jesus. Or at least, he began cultivating a religion without ever mentioning him. When I found out about all these inconsistancies, and many others (like the fact that no one can seem to agree about when Jesus was born, where, and why his parents were traveling, other than the fact that there was a prophesy that the son of God would be born in Nazareth, so he had to be gotten there somehow) that’s when I decided it was finally time to admit to myself what I’d secretly been feeling for as long as I could remember…I don’t believe in god because there isn’t a god. It was a relief. I remain open to the idea that someday proof will show a god exists. Until then, I choose to live my life with as little religious encroachment as possible from others.

  336. Keith in NM, no you don’t believe, you KNOW what you saw.

  337. I find it very interesting that so very many find it hard to believe in UFOs. Anyone that has seen on has no question as to what it was they saw, I know this from personal experience. It only happened once for me. A week later I spoke to others that saw what I saw and when I saw it…. and they were about 15 miles east of me. They exist… just exactly what “they” are I don’t know. But they exist. What a UFO was doing in the middle of nowhere in Southeastern NM, I don’t know, but as for me, I believe!

    Keith in NM

  338. Whirled, it is a pretty bold claim to make that Jesus never existed. Many have tried over the years to sweep Him under the rug. Most will at least admit He lived, but will disclaim His diety. Jesus is mentioned in the Quran and the Babylonian Talmud. There is evidence he spent years in India before starting His ministry. How else was Christianity founded, if not by the person Jesus? The gospels were believed written between 65 and 80 AD, to record the oral accounts. But others kept written records.

    Where’s the birth certificate?

  339. She’s a cutie, Tine!

    To force a full page refresh on internet explorer, try holding the Ctrl key down while you press F5.

  340. I wasn’t seeing my new avatar for awhile there either. I had to empty my browser’s cache first, and then force-refresh the page. Eventually Maria’s mug showed up.

    If you’re on a Mac and you use Safari as your browser, I can tell you how to do it. If you’re on a PC, someone else will have to help us out with instructions. (Whirled Peas maybe?)

  341. Tine, You say you have your little daughter’s picture in your avatar and some people are seeing it. However, I still see your picture. Would love to see that little one too. ???

  342. am SO looking forward to the ladies’ new postings on The Prize, etc…. where are you girls?????

  343. HI Tine (and everybody!)
    So glad to see your DD’s smiling, healthy face!
    Thanks for sharing her adorable pic w. us.

  344. Whirled, are you familiar with this?


  345. She is adorable tine! I am so pleased she is feeling better.;-0

    Jean you can say that again!… I know I was horrible with my oldest, I improved with my youngest, but I still worried myself sick. Thank heavens my husband was my balance. I recognized Tine’s anxiety! ;-)

    My Mom had an old time remedy for coughs and stomach aches/vomiting. She would make a “mustard plaster” and place it on our chests or tummies. It was a pasted made from dried mustard, one egg white and a lil bit of water, smeared on a cotton cloth and (folded over). It calmed even the most upset of tummies and cleared congestion and soothed asthmatic spasms. It get VERY hot as you can imagine, and needs to be monitored closely, and has an unpleasant smell, but it works! We use to laugh and say just the threat of Mom making us a mustard plaster would make us stop vomiting/coughing.. ;-)

  346. Hi gang and Tine,


    I’m so glad Marie Rose has bounced back and is on the mend.

    Show me a mommy who doesn’t hit the panic button when her wee one is on the sick list. The kid always recovers long before mom gets over the scare.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  347. The Fraud of the Age


  348. By: CraigΔ on October 17, 2009
    at 3:32 PM

    I believe you mean Edgar Cayce. There’s more about him at the link below


  349. Hi, all! I’m happy to report that Her Royal Highness Maria Rose had a splendid Sunday. She stuffed herself with food, went to the park, coughed a whole lot less, and generally did her very best impression of a squirrel who’s just chugged a Red Bull. (Which, of course, means she was acting like a perfectly normal 3-year-old.)

    I have no doubt her fairly quick rebound is due at least in part to all the good thoughts she’s been getting from M&H friends hither & yon. Thank you, everybody, for the encouraging and helpful words to a nervous mom. Sheesh, you’d think I’d never cared for a sick kid before…. I guess I freaked out because this year, what appears to be a cold in a little kid can turn out to be something much worse.

    Anyway. Enough about all that. Hope you all had a good weekend. And in thanks for your kindness, I’ve changed my avatar temporarily so you can have a peek at Maria’s smiling face.

  350. If my memory serves me correctly, and it has been a long time, my children’s doctor always recommended Triaminic flu and cold products for my little ones. I followed the doctor’s recommendation on dosage; again I am trying to tweak my memory, which was different from the package’s recommendation. But I know you have consulted Maria’s doctor and are following his advice Tine, so I am confident you are doing everything you can to keep your little one comfortable.

  351. I recommended Robitussin and did some research since everyone was mentioning Mucinex. The ingredient guaifenesin is the same in both products.
    I also recommend colloidal silver as I took it for years for periodontal disease as I am allergic to most antibiotics. Good stuff. But make sure you buy it from a reputable company.

    Thank you Poolman for your prayer for the power of good health. Wishing all a healthy winter season. October rolled in with a winter blast to give us a hint of winter to come.

  352. Re: root veg – Large pot of stewed veg is on the stove, along with just enough cubed pot roast to call it ‘beef stew’. Red wine, beef broth, orange peel, bay leaf, etc. for seasoning. There’ll be dumplings added later. Should make at least 3-4 meals this week.

    Turns out your man (aka DH) will eat anything if it is mixed with gravy and dumplings. I’m talking rubber erasers and doorstops here, folks. Kinda like Thanksgiving, where a large bird is only a necessary excuse for a huge plate of mounded stuffing.

    Good thing. I think a diced turnip might have fallen in there by mistake.

  353. Happy Sunday! Holy Spirit, shower us – one and all – with the power of good health, I pray.

    God put the planets, sun, and stars in place. A large timepiece designed to point us to Him. All peoples focus on the objects and details in the timepiece and lose sight of the Master in the plan. In addition to accurately fulfilling Old Testament prophecy, Christianity does follow these “heavenly symbols” since they were laid out to show us the way to God. Because of Jesus, we can be sons and daughters of God. “Then he said, I assure you, unless you turn from your sins and become as little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.” Matthew 18:3

    One-of-a-kind Savior

  354. It is beyond comprehension to me that any company, whether doing business with the government or any other entity, could have a clause in their contract with employees, that forbade reporting illegal activities. Surely a court would throw out that contract if our government doesn’t have the sense to. Which level of Dante’s hell do we reside in?

    In my little piece of heaven (and hell), I grew okra this summer and had to come up with varying ways to prepare it for my taste buds sanity. My very favorite way is to sautee it for a few minutes only with coconut oil, red wine and masala spice and a bit of curry. It is to die for heavenly. I served it to several friends and they’re were equally impressed. Makes a great side dish or you can serve over rice.

    Tine, I have been a bit busy this past week and didn’t read about your Maria till today. I do hope she’s feeling much better. By chance do you have a nebulizer? Putting a bit of colloidal silver in and having her inhale through the mouth piece for 15 to 20 minutes at a time 2 times a day can help tremendously and definitely the Mucinex since its readily available. There are so many great herbs for breaking up congestion but you likely don’t have any of them on hand so best to go with what you’ve got. Wishing her a speedy and easy recovery.

  355. JoshL The illegal and immoral acts committed in Iraq are astounding. Thanks for the information.

    Here is a link to the gang rape in Iraq by a young ladys co-workers. The repubicans voted against the young lady. Daily Show


  356. At least 18% of all babies born in Fallujah hospital born with deformities.


  357. Me, greytdog, if that is their hobby how bored are they? If it is their job, I hope they have a good benefit package.

  358. Hi gang and Greytdog,

    Here’s a nice little story. I get together with a dear friend once a week to make music for fun. She plays the flute (quite proficiently I might add) and me on the piano. We have been doing this for years, one week at my house and the next at hers. Afterwards we drink tea and giggle.

    She has two darling little dogs they rescued from the pound. They are soooo good for my ego because they are all excited when I arrive. They romp around the house until we get ready to play. Then they both lie down and are very quiet the whole time we are playing, except……

    One of them lies down on my feet and becomes quite annoyed whenever I use the pedals. They have become so familiar with some of the music, that when we screw up, which we often do, the other doggie growls!

    Everybody is a music critic, even dogs!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  359. Hope Helen and Margaret are doing alright. I miss their thoughts. Come on, girls. blog fodder is a wasting!

  360. Greytdog,
    You crack me up!

    Waste not want not–maybe that’s their alien agenda.

    Just finished painting two upstairs bedrooms.
    I hate painting…..with a passion.

  361. Raji wrote: “If there really are aliens out there observing us I don’t think they have a good opinion of Earth”

    Me: Well that would explain all those anal-probe stories

  362. Oh, dear, Δ¥ Tine. I’ve been away for a while. Hope everything goes well, I’ll hold you and Maria in my thoughts.

    Steam, yes. Plenty of fluids, especially warm fluids (chicken soup!, weak tea with lemon, ginger ale, etc.), but avoid dairy as it can increase congestion. Gargling with warm salt water (mildly salty – think tears) won’t help chest congestion, but can improve a cruddy throat and, to a certain extant, nasal congestion.

    Take care of yourself, too.

  363. I’ve had enough paranormal experiences that nothing much surprises me. I adore the Hubble photos and whenever there is a shuttle launch I get very very excited, especially the night launches. Everyone runs outside and cheers on the Shuttle! A bunch of us caravaned out to a very remote spot to watch the meteor showers, and shared spooky stories and occurrences. Loads of fun. I’ve got good neighbors.

  364. Tine, so sorry to hear about your little one. My favorite remedy is a vaporizer with Vicks added. If the cough gets really bad you can make a tent or just take her into the bathroom and steam up the room.
    I also gave all my daughters Robitussin (plain) no suppressants added. A doctor at Emory gave this to his chronic lung patients.

    Regarding UFO’s. I believe there is a lot out there that we do not know about. I also think many of the UFO sightings are experimental objects that our government knows about and we do not. Yes, I think many people have seen objects that are considered UFO. Where they come from who knows.If there really are aliens out there observing us I don’t think they have a good opinion of Earth. ;-)

  365. Rachel Maddow on Americans for Prosperity


    Rachel is amazing.

  366. Whirled Peas: I read your post on what you believe, and I’m with you. Thanks for putting it so nicely.

  367. After viewing the recent Hubble telescope images of stars and galaxies..I pretty much have to think we are pretty gullible to believe that “we” are the only intelligent life source around.

    I don’t mean to burst anyones bubble here..but the Bible was written by quite a few different men
    with different religious beliefs and agendas.

    I believe there was a man named Jesus who walked among us..and died on a cross for us.
    Now as to the The Arc, all the pairs of animals…and Eve eating an apple…well
    Thats when I believe we get into story time.

    I have seen the things that I have seen. Not trying to convince anyone either. But after 20 years of photographing aerial objects from both ground and the air, I pretty much can have an eye and ear for aircraft and the type of engine noise they make.
    But when an object comes over me at such a low level and no sound..well thats beyond my aircraft realm. Look up LUBBOCK LIGHTS in google.

    Anyone into Edward Casey?

    I had a “girl” “friend”
    who had an out of body experience where she rose up out of her body and was looking down upon herself during a surgery ..This was due to a near fatal auto accident that left her severely cut in her face.
    She took up Edward Casey and some of his beliefs.

    So thats another piece of pie to chew on.

  368. Another vote for Delsym here! Great cough suppressant, doesn’t taste too bad, and lasts 12 hours. So great for when you need rest!

    Also, Mucinex is awesome for breaking up the congestion. There are a couple of forms of Mucinex. If you get the one specifically marked for coughs, don’t also give Delsym.

  369. I have suffered from bronchitis in the past. I was put on antibiotics. Coughing and wheezing are symptoms of bronchitis, with this feeling of never being able to get rid of the phlegm. My lungs hurt too.

    Greytdog, your sighting mirrors mine and I believe in your story 100 percent. My sighting happened over 13 years ago and I never forgot it. I am not trying to convince anybody that there are other beings visiting us. From what I saw to that leap is something I have not done. I saw no aliens. However, I am not sure that we humans have invented seemingly solid objects that seem to vanish in the blink of an eye, at least for now, I have not heard of it.

    Somebody also explained my sighting by saying that sometimes, the fabric of time opens up and some people are privy to witnessing what the future holds for us. Therefore, my daughter and I might have seen a human invention from centuries to come. I do not know, I cannot say.

  370. Tine, ask your doc about Delsym for kids. It really seems to be the most effective for the bronchial stuff. You know it’s bronchial when accompanied by wheezing, if she complains about not being able to get her breath (at which time you may need to get a prescription inhaler from doc), deep chesty cough without a lot of phlegm discharge (need something strong to knock that crap out)
    I’ve also been using Ricola cough lozenges – they seem to work the best for me

  371. P.S. Gramma Rock, yes. I did hear that piggy story on MPR yesterday.

    Observations, welcome to the porch. Here…have some chocolate-pecan pie. I’ll even share my fancy green tea with you. :)

  372. Thanks for the ongoing concern, folks.

    I have been in contact with our family doc, who has assured me that there’s no reason to worry or even bring Maria in for an exam unless she has trouble breathing, loses her appetite, won’t wake up, etc. She’s had none of those issues, or other symptoms of severe respiratory distress — and is eating and drinking decently. Only 1 day of fever and chils.

    But she does have a nasty, nasty cough. I’ve never had bronchitis, so I don’t know exactly what to look for. What comes up when I research “bronchitis symptoms” look to me like any bad cold. (??)

    Can you give me any tips, friendly neighborhood flu / bronchitis veterans?


  374. Oh and thanks everyone for not castigating me as a looney for believing in other worldly creatures and saucers. I just know what I have seen.

    By: CraigΔ on October 17, 2009 at 8:38 AM

    Craig: Most lawyers will tell you that the most unreliable witness in court is an eyewitness because whenever faced with an anomaly, the human mind fills in the details.

    I’ve witnessed two UFO sightings in the past and both became something more mundane when I discovered that they really were simple illusions, one a flashlight with a colored lens in the hand of a child and another a reflection of the taillights of a 1959 Chevy Impala..

    And UFO photos don’t cut the mustard either. I once had a University student who was a whiz with a camera. He also did all his own photo developing. His lab reports were a thing of beauty, dressed up with spectacular and often bizarre photographs. He could create just about anything. He routinely got an A for creativity but an F for fakery. I’m sure he is now in seventh heaven with digital technology and photoshop.

    He had a whole collection of UFO shots. But he also had a bunch of ghostly images too. He always said that a little glycerin on a camera lens or foggy filters in the darkroom could create some of the most ghostly images you could imagine.

    Needless to say, I’m not a fan of UFOs. Also no one has ever been able to explain to me where they come from or what they use for an energy source that does not insult my intelligence by conjuring up anti-gravity forces or speed and energy sources that violate all known physical laws

    For an alternative view of the subject here is a site you can go to that debunks UFOs. Read it at your peril. It may change your mind.


  375. Delurker, clarify for MIL that it’s only the premature GOP babies. . . (jayzus, ppl are getting dumber)

  376. Snort!

  377. So he can eat them….lol.

  378. Today my mother in law told me that she’d been told that Obama is going to kill premature babies when they start rationing health care.

  379. You might want to contact Harry Reid and tell him to put the Public Option into the final bill too!


    Chuck Schumer as a plan but Reid is the only person to make it work.

  380. We are at a critical point in the health care debate. I hope you can take the time to listen to Keith Olberman and his special report on health care.

    He wants all people to have access to the health care his father received this past summer. I feel it is an important message. Please consider watching it.


    Whirled Peas: You truly are amazing!

  381. First, I’d like to say that I’m a new blogger, and I was notified by a friend of how great and informative your site is. She’s right on! I put a link on my blogspot page so that everyone can be “enlightened” by you!!!

    Health care in America is shameful! My daughter is a hair stylist and her place of work doesn’t offer health care. My granddaughter, her daughter does have health care provided by the State of California, I believe the Health Kids Healthy Famlies program. I recently heard that HFHK program was being cut. I’m not sure if that has taken affect yet, but I worry that if it has, that my 5 year old granddaughter won’t have healthcare either.

    And another thing about those that are fortunate to have health care. The majority of us have HMO’s because we can’t affort PPO plans for us and our families. Hey, the politicians don’t have to worry. They all have a PPO and have the luxury of going to any physician that they want. I say the first step is to take away their PPO plans and place them down in the drenches with the rest of us that have these half assed HMO programs were you’re limited to who, where, and how you are treated!

    I look forward to more blogs Helen! Thanks.

    I remember during the 80′s when I was employed by a software company up in Northern California. Yes, those were the good ol’ days! My company offered only a PPO plan, and I didn’t need to have a “referral” to go see a specialist or top rated doctor. The doctors were more caring and not rushing to get you in an out in their predetermined time frame that is alloted to meet their quota’s and incentive plans. I felt that I was cared for.

  382. Tine – yes I second the warning on the bronchial infection It’s really nasty, it lingers and lingers. And unfortunately nothing much touches it. I OD’d on the codeine cough syrup which made me sicker than sick. Now I’m just getting by with Delsym. But it’s been two weeks and I’m still on antibiotics to stave off further lung damage. I hate it.

  383. Okay so I don’t know what I saw, it was a UFO though. From here or out there, I can’t say. I was sitting in traffic. Beautiful clear spring day in Florida. And the birds were out – ospreys swirling in the thermals. I tend to forget traffic and get caught up watching the aerial dance of these birds. When. . .there was a bright bright silver object (not a plane) that was there in the blue blue sky (no clouds) and then bam! gone! freaked me out. That night on the news, ABC had a story of similar objects seen over AZ. I told my SO I had seen those and his remark: “You didn’t tell me you were visiting trailer parks today”. But I know what I saw. I just don’t know WHAT it was I saw.

  384. Thank you sofia,

    That is my intention. Many people have come before me, using forethought and God given intelligence, to state a position I believe to be true. I just get out of the way and let them say it.

    Brevity is my…… ;)


    The Greatest Story Ever Usurped:

    Parts 1, 2 & 3
    with transcript.


    8) ~ Δ

  385. The best material is at the end.


  386. Oh and thanks everyone for not castigating me as a looney for believing in other worldly creatures and saucers.
    I just know what I have seen.

  387. Jean,
    I’m an Episcopalian.
    But practice my own beliefs as in God does not have to dwell in a building for me to have contact with him.
    My wife is now an Anglican as she switched because of recent issues in the Episcopal church..for which I could personally care less.

    When we moved to west texas she had us try one of these non affiliated new age “come as you are” type churches. Friendly, interesting but they wanted you there Sunday night, Wednesday night and Thursdays they wanted you to form
    party clutch groups where you could bowl,play cards just being together.
    To me and my wife TOO much togetherness.

    Personally..I just like my one on one with my God.

    I had an inside view of the business end of religion as my first job after college.

    I worked at the Southern Baptist Radio and Television Center in Fort Worth.
    We would produce these radio programs that would go out all over the world literally. I personally produced 12 programs in 10 different languages. We had programs for country,rock and easy listening and Old time Baptist.

    We had people sending in Prayer requests with money like you wouldn’t believe.

    WE had a room and church volunteers that would do nothing but open mail and separate the money and requests and then they would pray over the bulk of the mail for their needs.

    Lets just say,a lot of people at the top make a lot of money and the networking system is over the top. I could go on about the institution , but will at another time.

  388. Whirled, I love your way of using very few words to say so very much

  389. Congressman Alan Grayson
    on Real Time w/ Bill Maher

    *scroll for more…


  390. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 10/17/09

    As the health insurance reform debate enters into its final stages in Congress, the President denounces the desperate and deceptive last-ditch efforts of the health insurance companies to derail it.


  391. Hi gang and Craig,

    With over 3 and a half million hits, it is starting to get a little crowded here on M&H’s porch. But Craig, I think we can scoot over a little and make room for you. Did you bring something edible and some libation to share?

    When it comes to specific religious and scientific issues, as well as innumerable other ‘unknowns’, you can just call me a “Casuist”. I simply do not know. I do think it is as arrogant to believe that our itty-bitty planet has the only life form in the Universe, as it was to believe that the sun revolved around our itty-bitty earth.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  392. okay, minnesotans, did anyone else hear on the news tonight that some of the 4 legged pigs at the state fair caught h1n1 from the 2 legged fairgoers ?

    or did i dream that ?

  393. Hi gang and Tine,

    Thank you for the update on Maria. What a lovely name! One of my favorites.

    You know we are sending sending your whole family our warmest, most loving thoughts, on the hour every hour.

    Keep us informed.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  394. I also hope your daughter is feeling better Tine! Some people I know had the virus. It appears that the secondary infection is the worst. Just watch out for the bronchitis-like symptoms and follow doctors’ advice. With your TLC, she will be good in no time.

    In regard to UFOs, my daughter and I saw one, once also, one morning, in broad daylight, on my way of driving her and her brother to school. The object was just hovering in one place, making no sound, very close to the trees in the distance. It was shiny like polished aluminium or stainless steel, cigar-shaped in the front, at least what I assumed was the front. We only saw approximately one half of it, the other half being blocked by trees, it was that close to the ground. We saw no windows or wheels of any kind, and it was not moving like one would expect an airplane to move. My daughter and I said in unison: “what is that?” As I turned my head to look at other drivers in disbelief, just to ascertain that they were seeing what we were seeing, the object vanished, just like that, in the blink of an eye. Somebody suggested it might have been a blimp of some sort, but blimps just do not vanish into thin air or do not move that fast out of view. It was a really strange sighting for us. To this day I wonder what it was. I, for sure no longer snicker, when people speak of UFOs.

  395. No one’s puppet, Lori, Auntie Jean, and anyone else who has expressed or thought good thoughts on our behalf…

    Thank you.

    We still don’t know exactly what Maria has…and it’s driving me nuts that she got sick before the H1N1 vax is available here in MN. But so far so good. It’s the fact that she’s little, and knowing that in the scary cases, there’s often a turnaround after the kid starts improving, that bothers me.

    Keep those good thoughts coming, please!

  396. Tine, I am sure I am not the only one here concerned about you and your daughter, can’t wait to have you back.

  397. “In a 2006 television documentary, “Apollo 11: The Untold Story,” Buzz Aldrin admitted for the first time publicly that the astronauts saw UFOs on their trip to the Moon, but they were not allowed to discuss this information on the live audio feed to NASA.”

    UFOs on the Moon

  398. UFOs in the bible:

    “The wheels sparkled as if made of chrysolite. All four wheels looked the same; each wheel had a second wheel turning crosswise within it.”
    Ezekiel 1:16

    “All four wheels looked the same; each wheel had a second wheel turning crosswise within it.”
    Ezekiel 10:10

    We have seen them in Arizona. When I was a boy I saw them in NM. I have seen them in west Texas. Some say our government has some of them.

  399. My mother, a firebrand minister and dedicated scientist, believes in UFOs. As she succinctly says, there is so much about life in the natural world that we don’t know & can’t explain, who are we to scoff at folks who tout supernatural or preternatural ideas?

    That said, I always wonder why only kids movies are allowed to have nice ETs but adult movies always have scary invasive ETs? Reflection of ourselves, mayhap>?

  400. That is EXACTLY my “belief” too peas.

  401. I believe in UFOs even though I have never seen one. If it is unidentified, it is flying, and it is object, what else would you call it? Many people have seen them, I assume they have good eyesight and their brains are capable of processing what they saw, some of them no doubt go beyond that and leap to certain conclusions, that they don’t have the facts to support if challenged.

    One god visits our home from time to time, whenever something isn’t where I remember placing it, I am ‘certain’ Loki paid us a visit. As hubby and I get older, Loki seems to visit us oftener.

  402. Hi gang and Bruddah Peas,

    Well said and Amen.

    Aloha! :-) and Namaste

    Auntie Jean

  403. I believe in God.

    I believe in evolution.

    I believe in the scientific method.

    I believe thru knowledge we ‘see’ God.

    I beleive God created Evolution.

    I believe the bible is a book of tales stolen by men from previous religions and used to control an uneducated population thru fear and guilt.

    I believe education is the answer and being inquisitive is our dogma. It is ‘how’ evolution manifests itself in humans.

    Namasté ~ Δ

  404. PS..
    I worked for a large military aircraft manufacturer for over twenty years as a Cinematographer and Producer.
    Having worked with Test pilots and knowing their reputations. They are not going to say anything that would jeopardize their job.
    But one opened up to me and described as being followed by some lights as he was piloting a helicopter back to base at night in 1965 Vietnam.
    It shook the entire crew up so bad they determined not to say a word.

  405. Raji
    “Craig, since I am one of the few that thinks you rattle the hamster cage for “shits and giggles” I’ll move over and let you scoot in with a chair.”

    Thank you for the chair…and a place at the table.

    Now tell me the ground rules again. No cursing..Ha! or the “N” word allowed.

    I mean I have read the rules somewhere on this blog. I guess I just keep stepping in it by just being me..a “rightee”

    I believe in global warming if that helps..but according to the Mayan calendar, In 2012 we will have a lot of other things on our plate to worry about.

    Now..I’ll get some *&#% for this..But Jean referred to UFO’s.

    Believe me they are real. In december 1967,My brother,mother and I saw one with binoculars as an early morning star that was moving sideways left then right. We first saw it with naked eye looking into the western sky.

    When I got the binocs my skin crawled.
    It was the perfect saucer shape then a red light came out from beneath it. It maneuvered around and then went below the saucer and then both just shot away.

    On top of all this we were 2 miles from a SAC bomber base. No body saw anything or reported such. That would have put this object almost directly over the south end of the runway at about 2000 feet maybe more.

    Then again in 2006 I spotted what was becoming a familiar sighting in central Texas that was seen by pilots and police officers. I live in a large west Texas town and was out at 11:00pm.

    From right to left this object very low in the shape of a boomerang with 3 glowing soft amber lights in a triangle went from south to north and was low enough I should have heard something but nothing..no sound.
    I know the local NBC reporter and she wanted me to be on TV. They found another person who saw same and he went on the air. I politely declined since my wife didn’t need to be paired with a UFO idiot.
    They reported that these same lights and shapes had been seen in 1954 time frame and were photographed by some university professors who had been in their backyard when this occurred.
    So it made the papers here..and I just kept my mouth shut.

    So in summation..we are not alone.

    Evolution..who knows maybe we’re just somebody’s petri dish that has gone bad,

  406. UAW-

    best wishes my neighbor…

  407. One of the things (among many) that most fundamentalist believers refuse to acknowledge is that every culture has a creation myth, a flood myth, and yes, a sacrificial king myth. Every mythology also has the sacred coven (12+1), dragons, maiden, mother, crone. . . Genesis has at least two creation myths without any attempt to reconcile them. The roots of Communion are founded in the sacrificial king myth, whereas the resurrection story can be seen in parallel stories of the Celts.

  408. The problem is that the Religious are willing to use faith in place of Science; but Scientists are unwilling to admit the scientific method does not apply to all questions.

    When I taught I loved to accuse the Science department of teaching philosophy, and the poorer teachers did not understand that being a “scient-ist” is to adopt a world view, or philosophy, to test truth.

    This world view is very recent, and has only been dominant in parts of the world for a very few years. In some parts it has never dominated. Even in the US it has not dominated for more than a century.

    Kierkegaard argued that some things were appropriate for science, and the scientific method should apply. But for those things for which it does not apply, other standards of belief should be appropriate.

  409. Delurker Girl, I am a bad Catholic,but I’ve always beleived that when God said “let there be light” one of the syllables could be expressed mathematically as e=mc(squared). Attempting to use Genesis or any other part of the bible to rival science, will stop rational people from taking the Bible seriously. Biblical literalism hinders people from seeing and responding to the truths in scriptures that are metaphorical, poetic, literary, ethical and wise. Biblical literalism brings not only the Bible, but Christianity itself into disrepute.

  410. I’ve been MAIMed! As in, I asked someone a question and they replied “yes maim”

    You all were talking about getting ma’am-ed. Now I think that would be preferable!

    Helen & Margaret, we miss you!

  411. Kitkat, I hope you’re feeling much better!

    I agree that it’s possible to believe that God is the reason science works the way it does. In fact, I do.

    The hardest thing to reconcile on the evolution theory -vs- creation is that the Bible says God created Adam, and from Adam He created Eve. It doesn’t say that He created ape like pre-human creatures that eventually evolved into humans. Even if you view the creation account as figurative rather than literal, it is awfully hard to make those two ideas work together.

    How do non-Christian religions view evolution? Do we have smart people here who can summarize for us? I have honestly never thought about it and now I’m curious.

  412. kitkat sending all “chicken soup” feelings your way… ;-( get better soon…..

    and I of course agree with your post….

    I do have one q when you are up to answering it of course….. do you think MOST people in this country can’t differentiate the two or a small minority?

  413. Hello all. Been out of commission since Sunday with the H1N1 flu and was really looking forward to a new M&H post to lift my spirits. *Sigh* Had to console myself by reading your comments instead.

    I also do not understand why people can’t believe in a higher power and evolution, as I think evolution is just the method of creation which a higher power could use. I think most scientists would agree with that and many religions also find the two compatible.

    I teach anthropology, and the way I explain it to students is that science explains the natural while religion explains the supernatural. We aren’t saying who created the natural process, but we are explaining how nature works – gravity, evolution, etc. I would say the biggest problem I find that students have is not separating the two but in thinking that there is a direction or goal behind evolution. They often think that an organism is striving to become something else.

  414. In 2004, in Grantsburg, WI, the school board considered teaching alternative theories of origins. They received a letter signed by 188 pastors of various churches across the state. The letter ended thusly: “The theory of evolution is a foundational scientific finding, one that has stood up to over a century of rigorous scrutiny. To reject the theory of eveolution, or treat it as one theory among others, is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and to transmit that ignorence to our children.”

    It is not often that I feel able to contribute something to the discussion that hasn’t been said before. Thank you and Good Morning!

  415. Margaret,I know we have not heard from you in a while and I am guessing it is because of the


    the Franklin anti-rape bill

  416. On evolution and religion…..

    Just sneaking down into the parlor late tonight.
    Might enjoy a small piece of pie and then give my dogs a quick late night walk.

    When I was very young, I remember singing a song with these words……

    “I am a Promise. I am a Possibility. I am a Promise. With a capital P. I am a great, big bundle of Potentiality!”

    Those words have always led me to think that abortion and euthanasia are not what they are all cracked up to be. I know we evolve as humans, but the element of life and the beauty it holds is where my mind finds conflict.

    I guess now that I’m older, I see that the potential for a peaceful planet lies within each of us.

    Good night all.

  417. Hi gang,

    I personally have never had a problem reconciling science and religion. Who are WE mortal humans to question what METHOD God, Yahweh, Allah or Vishnu used? Since the Diety loves us enough to give us life in the first place, that’s good enough for me.

    Nighty-night all and sleep well.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  418. We need you to go out to stump for healthcare!

  419. poolman just when I thought they couldnt sink any lower

    lori bottoms up!

  420. Okay, we’re turning into a state of crazies down here in Arizona. Not only are our senators worthless, our representatives have started howling at the moon… :roll:

    The new McCarthyism

  421. are u real ??ppl??

  422. Points well taken Anne about global warming. People are hard to convince when their mind is made up. Look how long it took to convince some humans the earth was not flat. At work today, some of my colleagues were talking about how people keep talking about global warming and they are hard-pressed to find any sign of it. Winter is sure coming in early this year! No warming here for sure! I decided that it was not worth my time to chime in. Really!

  423. Hi gang,

    I don’t know about you but I was glued to CNN on TV this morning with the account of the little 6-year-old boy possibly riding around alone in a balloon over the Northern Colorado skies. Fortunately, the story had a happily-ever-after-ending. Poor kid. He knew he was gonna be in big trouble so hid in the attic.

    I can identify with his family, having raised three sons. That’s what little boys do!!! None of ours ever did anything quite that dramatic however.

    I rarely spend that much time watching TV but it was of special interest to me because I was born in Boulder, Colorado and raised in Fort Collins. Except for visits to my family way back when, I haven’t spent very much time there since I went away to college. It was fun seeing a little of the familiar terrain and hearing once again the Colorado Western Twang accent. Naturally, I was not aware that there WAS an accent until I had been gone for a long time.

    I was further impressed with how quickly the local officials and agencies mobilized along with the military and military technology to track the balloon and resolve the situation. In my estimation, that’s what the military does best. SAVE lives if they can.

    Aloha! :-) Lokahii and Namaste!

    Auntie Jean

    P. S. Oh, yeah. The tabloids and the conspiracy theorists will get busy claiming that it was really a UFO and that an alien family á lá ET, were just building a spacecraft so they could ‘go home’. Of course, the conservatives will scream about how much money and resources were expended on the rescue effort.

    I for one found it a welcome respite for a few hours from the war in Afghanistan, the wrangling over the Health Care Bill and all the other burning issues of the day.

  424. Alright. That took 24 hrs to show up. Thought I would show off my other grandson. :grin:

    I have no problem with science and my religion. I see both evolution and creation. Science will prove the existence of God. I do believe man was certainly created as “man”. But who’s to say where things could have developed before that. I’ve seen results from “survival of the fittest” – adapting to a changed environment, natural selection, etc. I got no problem with carbon dating. God owns time, we are the ones that are still grasping for a handle on the concept.

    I hope others are starting to see a turn in this government. I see signs of improvement. I know I want to see it work, so I may be looking through smudged glasses a bit. But I think there is a lot of positive progression toward turning this thing back around and back to our control. We got plenty of work ahead, but I am starting to sense the creaks and groans of buried bureaucratic layers seeing daylight for the first time in decades. All to be dusted off and analyzed and trimmed of the deadwood. Combined, streamlined, digitized, and modernized. This government “machine” needs to be leaner and much more efficient to work for us.

  425. UAW, May God bless you and your wife. May His Spirit comfort and protect you both. May His guidance, wisdom, and healing flow through the physicians and nurses to your precious wife, I pray.

  426. I personally don’t understand the conflict between science & religion, but then again, my physics professor was also an ordained minister as well as a respected theologian. And he was like a kid when he would talk about quantum physics! he would just light up – and discuss theology with the same enthusiasm.

  427. Greytdog, thanks for the “snickers”. Good grief, what next?

    Craig, since I am one of the few that thinks you rattle the hamster cage for “shits and giggles” I’ll move over and let you scoot in with a chair. Please be a good boy and don’t spill your milk on the table or drop your piece of pie on the floor. We clean up after you way too often ;-)

    President Obama has finally gone to New Orleans to see just what has NOT happened! I read a fantastic photojournalist’s book called “One of Us” by Chris Usher.

    Quotes from the forward: “On August 28, 2005 I set out from DC to cover Katrina for Time magazine. What I thought would be a three or four day assignment turned into a three week experience that affected me profoundly….I knew this was a story that needed to be documented, not just covered and so, “One of Us’ was born….I’ve revisited the gulf coast six times….and spent two months driving across the US in search of evacuees who have not yet returned home….the recovery effort is slow and inefficient… I encourage you to visit the gulf coast and see it with your own eyes.”

    From “One of Us” :Quotes from Danny Kattan, March 27, 2007 : I’ve probably demolished maybe sixty or seventy houses now myself…everything I do here involves people’s emotions….every house has a story to tell….you can see where they raised generation after generation…they’ve got pictures ..that were full of mold and had water lines on them and to see that stuff going to the dumpsters, you know it’s really hard..it really is hard”

    “Like the dust bowl of the 1930′s…Katrina was a cataclysmic natural disaster that forced hundreds of thousands of Americans to migrate across the country or stay and suffer with little or no help….”


  428. Although grateful that the funds exist, massive public safety funds were expended today to try to save a 6 year old little boy. The boy who turned out to be hiding because he thought that he would get in a lot of trouble once people started looking for him.

    However, we have no public funds or options for a 3rd grade little girl to save her from the very real threat of her heart condition.

    Something is wrong with this picture. Which child was in reality in more danger. Not saying that if you believe the boy was in the balloon, we should not do everything to look. But in reality the threat was greater for the little girl and she paid the price.

  429. Dr Rowan Williams, head of the Church of England and leader of the worldwide Anglican communion, told an audience at Southwark Cathedral that people had allowed themselves to become “addicted to fantasies about prosperity and growth, dreams of wealth without risk and profit without cost”.

    The consequences of such a lifestyle meant the human soul was “one of the foremost casualties of environmental degradation”.

    The little boy did not fly away – he was hiding in the attic. However, a little 3rd grade girl at my grandson’s school died of a heart condition – sad.

  430. The scientific method requires that theories be observable, repeatable, and verifiable. Belief, on the other hand, is a leap of faith. Some people are capable of faith and others like me seem incapable of conviction in something intangible. I don’t rule out any religious belief, but I am waiting for proof. I respect all people who are moral and altruistic, if they are religious terrific for them, but don’t try to convince me that morality and religiosity are synonymous, I know better.

  431. PSU…. let’s form a seach party! I wouldn’t mind finding it either… I have a college tuition due here soon.. LOL hell forget the dang kid lets just use it for margaritas ..;-)

  432. Anne surmises: Americans, unfortunately, have a dismissive attitude when it comes to science. They don’t believe in anything they can’t see themselves, and don’t believe the experts who know what they’re talking about. Science is not a matter of opinion.


    I am an American and I “believe” in both evolution and global warming( and I believe in GOD… amazing eh?) and can even grasp science! LOL Please do not lump me in with the wingnuts…

  433. darn, I heard about this so called ‘Obama stash’ but cant seem to find it

    can someone direct me to it? I could sure use some extra stash in my life these days


  434. People who don’t believe in global warming are as annoying to me as people who don’t believe in evolution. Americans, unfortunately, have a dismissive attitude when it comes to science. They don’t believe in anything they can’t see themselves, and don’t believe the experts who know what they’re talking about. Science is not a matter of opinion. When 95% of science agree on something, we should be focused on that, not the 5% who don’t agree. If your doctor said to you, “There is a 95% chance you will die of cancer if you don’t stop smoking,” do you say, “You’re not 100% sure? Then I’ll keep smoking.” Global warming does not mean the entire planet will get warmer. It means some parts will get warmer and some parts will get cooler (especially when that convection current in the Atlantic stops rotating and Euope freezes…again). Some parts will suffer from droughts while others will be flooded. Already the monsoons are coming earlier and heavier. Drought in Africa and California is extending. The argument that the temperture changes are due only to the wobble of the earth’s axis is invalid. Those changes are known and predictable, and the rising temperatures cannot be explained by them alone. The age of the carbon in the atmosphere can be measured, and it’s coming from the burning of fossile fules. Air bubbles in ancient ice cores show the history of carbon in the atmosphere. Whenever there’s been more, it’s been hotter. And there’s never been as much in the atmosphere as there is now.

  435. Our classy president:

  436. May I have a seat at the table…?

  437. UAW

    Many of us here on this post have already been down the road you are now traveling. I lost a brother just last week. And there are almost as many ways of dealing with the resulting chaos and confusion as there are posters here. But please don’t forget to take care of yourself because you will also find that there are other family members or friends who will be depending on you for strength and support.
    While there are many issues on which we might disagree, in this common experience that most of us have shared, we wish you and your wife the very best.

  438. Wow, Joe, that balloon story is all over the place! The balloon was brought down empty. They’re looking for the boy on the ground, thinking he was never in the balloon, though there were people who swore they saw him in it, and said the basket was swinging wildly, yet they say they say he didn’t fall out. So many contradictions, I imagine from constantly interviewing people at the scene who probably don’t actually KNOW anything.

    Sure hope he’s OK!

  439. talk about a bad day


  440. For your Thursday snickers:

    (h/t to http://www.themudflats.net)

  441. Brillant Raji! Thinking about you and your wife at this time UAW, I am so sorry her treatment wasn’t sucessful.

  442. Jean, I do get up at 5:25 but I think the posting time on this blog must be PT. With dial-up it behooves one to get on the internet early ;-)

    UAW,If one doesn’t buy into Global Warming, couldn’t one at least buy into cleaning up our environment? One can not argue that auto emissions pollute the air we breath. What do you think causes Code Orange Days in the summer?

    Destroying our rain forests causes erosion as well as adding to global warming, Can you buy into that belief?

    Does anyone here take their garbage to the local dump or what is really a transfer station. Have you looked at the amount of garbage that is going to be transferred to the ocean? How does this effect our water and the creatures that have to live in that environment?

    A doctor on NPR recently was discussing the valid reasons for getting the H1N1 vaccine. People were calling in with their concerns. His comment was there are 80,000 chemicals floating around in your environment, why be concerned only about one vaccine?

    We all need to be aware of what we breathe and eat and drink and do our part to keep our environment as clean as possible.

    So if you don’t want to spend time thinking about Global Warming as JuneauJoe so well stated in his posts, at least spend time thinking about your own back yard and in return you will have helped those who want to think about Global Warming.

  443. Thanks Grandma Katie:

    The Lower Yukon River Delta 20 years ago was permafrost. It was frozen permanently a foot below the surface. Now, the whole Yukon River has no permafrost – gone.

    The yuPik people told me it used to be 40 and 50 below zero in the winter. Today, it is 15 to 30 below zero – which one YuPik told me was warm. He attributed it to Global Warming.

    In the village where I was, I was told of bugs which they had not seen before. It was even 100 degrees one day two summers ago. This is an area where 75 degrees is considered hot.

    The YuPik people live off the land. They hunt moose, fish for salmon, walrus and even whale. If they do not get the game, they die. They also pay $8.00 for gasoline and home heating oil.

    Impacts on climate are actually killing people in the villages if the truth be known.

    We need to get away from I can dump anything into the air and water because I am an American.

    The US has 5% of the world population but we make 25% of the pollution. I think we need to get real about the choices we make.

  444. UAW there are really no words to express the pain that you and your wife are going through at this time. All of our thoughts and prayers are with you at this time.
    Namaste (The light inside me honors the light inside you)

  445. JuneauJoe – Just realied how much I have missed your posts. A voice of reason.
    Keep posting about gloal warming and maybe you might get it through some thick heads IT IS HAPPENING!
    UAW my thought “s are with you and your wife. Been down that road and it wasn”t nice.

  446. Here is the entire article about attittudes of people towards Global Warming.

    Six Americas of Climate Change

    Do spend some time thinking about Global Warming and what the earth and atmosphere will be like in 50 years if we do nothing. We can ignore this topic but future generations will suffer if we do.

    Have a good day folks!

  447. *coloring books… for all the spell checkers out there.. ;-)

  448. UAW,
    You and your wife are in our prayers. Bless you for your devotion to her.
    By the way, the Pacific ocean has warmed up a degree or two. We are seeing fish and marine life in Puget Sound and off the coast of Washington that do not normally show up in “cold” water areas.
    As to Global warming, I just want some one from the Republican side to explain to me why it would not be wiser all the way around to cap emissions, stop cutting down the rain forests, stop drilling for oil, ect. If we are wrong about global warming, we will still have improved our planet for our children and their children. If we are right, well then we have not waited until it is too late……

  449. Tine……. pop cycles… slushies….”croop” tents-forts ( a tent on the floor with a vaporizor)…. books and songs, cloring books and crayons… ;-) She will be fine in no time….

    Get some rest when she rests… let the house go and order in lots of pizza, ( and some red wine doesn’t hurt) …

    kisses and huggggggs your way… xoxoxoxo

  450. There are different audiences who have different beliefs about Global Warming. Here is a breakdown of where people stand.

    What I find alarming is this: 23% are disengaged or doubtful about Global Warming: WHAT IF THESE PEOPLE ARE WRONG! IF ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY IS BASED ON THOSE DOUBTFUL – we would ruin the environment for our children and grandchildren. (This was the case during the Bush years.)

    The Alarmed (18%) are fully convinced of the reality and seriousness of climate change and are al-
    ready taking individual, consumer, and political action to address it. The Concerned (33%) – the
    largest of the six Americas – are also convinced that global warming is happening and a serious
    problem, but have not yet engaged the issue personally. Three other Americas – the Cautious (19%),
    the Disengaged (12%) and the Doubtful (11%) – represent different stages of understanding and ac-
    ceptance of the problem, and none are actively involved. The final America – the Dismissive (7%)
    – are very sure it is not happening and are actively involved as opponents of a national effort to re-
    duce greenhouse gas emissions.

  451. My heart goes out to you and your wife UAW. It’s a tough time in your journey….. I wish I had the magic wand to make all your heartache go away.

    Alas, all I have is my positive energy that I most certainly am sending your way, and have since I heard about your wife’s condition. Please tell her I have her in my mind and am wishing all the best….namaste

  452. Global warming blog day! Get informed about Global Warming.


    I have seen the massive fires caused by drought in CA. I have seen an Alaskan Village which is suffering because of lack of fish and flooding last spring. Polar Bears do not have ice bergs to swim to anymore. Breast fed Babies just weeks old are testing with chemicals in their bodies. We are polluting our earth foiks.

    Cheney/Bush ignored the science for 8 years. It is past time to make changes on environmental policy. We should thank Al Gore..

    UAWL Sorry about your wife. ( HoweverL Your ideas are wrong to the point of being dangerous.)

  453. UAW,

    I too wish your wife well and have been here the whole time to know how tough it has been for you. Our neighbor is going through a similar situation and I know how difficult it can be for everyone involved.

  454. UAW: So terribly sorry. I’ve been there and it’s so hard. All I can say is that your wife is fortunate to have you with her through the ordeal. I admire you for your devotion and character.

  455. Hi gang and jsri,

    Heck no, jsri, I’m not about to scroll through your post about Genetics. In fact I read it twice.

    We have a pretty intelligent and sophisticated crowd here who I think would be interested in your input. For sure, inbreeding probably didn’t do much for the Egyptians and definitely not for the Royalty in Europe with Hemophilia.

    I don’t pretend any expertise in “Memetics” except that I have been doing some interesting reading; i.e., Richard Dawkins, who coined the term. Yes, it is a fairly new science and as such, quite controversial. A lot of it is based on Evolution, which gives the Creationists hissy-fits.

    But I do think we could benefit from your experience in telling us about basics, such as the difference between ‘dominant’ and ‘recessive’ genes and how they work.


    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  456. Hi gang and JuneauJoe,

    Glad you’re back!!! You were sorely missed. We need your input.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  457. Hi gang and UAW,

    I am so very sorry your wife’s health has not improved. Just know that all of us here at M&H, regardless of our political leanings, care about both of you. We will give you all the love and support we possibly can. All you have to do is ask. We are here for you.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  458. Oh and by the way, it didn’t take me 10 minutes to fact check. The posts were one right after the other. There is such a thing as time to upload. The time stamp says 3:14pm and I wasn’t even home at that time Pacific Time, so the time stamp isn’t anything that you can go by.

    I like to have dialogue and I even like the term asshat. So have at it.

  459. UAW,

    I didn’t call you a liar. I simply said that you can’t believe everything you read, hear or watch on You Tube. The You Tube audio had a very obvious slant. In fact most information to be gathered from this situation is from right wing blogs. Very few reports from news media.

    The problems arose from the City’s inability to handle the application process and crowds. The money was stimulus money to help homeless and near homeless. It was not “Obama’s Money”. If residents didn’t know what it was about, then how is that the President’s fault? In fact, even the article that you cite states it was “Detroit’s botched handling”.

    The right wing blogs that have been commenting on this incident upplay the ignorant people. Many of the sound bites on the news were rational people that knew why there were there. In fact the blog sites were even offensively racist.

    But thanks for calling me an asshat. That is what many here have been talking about for so long is that the name calling is what is not appropriate. I believe that I said, please don’t believe everything you read and hear. Which sounds very different than calling you a liar. Good discussion though.

  460. Our Children have to breathe the air and drink the polluted waters which we are making today!


    We wasted 8 years with CHENEY/BUSH on ignoring Global Warming! It is way past time to take Global Warming the destruction of our environment seriously!

  461. Arguing with a person who ignores the realities is not worth my time or effort.

    It is kind of like wrestling a skunk. I could surely win but I would have to smell the stink in the process.

    It makes sense to have higher mileage cars, cut usage of coal for generating power and to limit the crap we put into the air.

    People have done some awful things (to save money) to power our world. We even started a war (Iraq) for oil.

  462. Jean: Get out your reading glasses and get your scroll wheel under control

    Sorry but my fly-bys lately have been quickies. I have a new volunteer activity that keeps me hopping so I have only enough time to skim what is happening and to respond to a troll or two if I get amply irritated.

    In one of your posts you indicated that you ‘would like to have a little discussion about “Memetics” somewhere along the line, but first, there needs to a brief refresher course in “Genetics” ‘. You point out that “Memetics” are similar to “Genetics” in that they are CULTURAL traits handed down from one generation to another . . . “

    As far as memetics is concerned, I know little. Just reading about it gives me a brain ache. Also. attempts to define its processes has led to camps that seem to be at odds with one another in a big way. So, since I know next to nothing about it. I’ll stay away from it. But I think the general premise is pretty well accepted. However, unlike the transmission of DNA from generation to generation that may on rare occasions be subject to change through mutation, I believe that “memes” can be acculturated and altered by each generation they pass through.

    As for genetics, I’m probably not the most competent person to discuss these issues. I’ve been out of the field for so long most of the new stuff is nothing more than a haze. The field has moved so far from where I was when I was teaching to be almost incomprehensible. But I remember enough basic stuff to point out that your statement about “what lengths we humans will go to in order to change our genetic makeup” describes only the lengths we go to “cover up our genetic makeup” because we cannot truly change it. At present, in order to change our genetic makeup, we would have to alter the structure of our DNA in such a fashion that the changes would be passed on to the next generation. Although that is virtually impossible, it is this area where much human genetics research is comcentrated and it is only a matter of time before such DNA alteration becomes commonplace. My only problem with the concept is that when you look at how traits of show animals have been manipulated by selective breeding, do we need humans to go down a similar path? Do we really want immobile humans with thin thumbs for texting and a rectangular eye for reading mobile phone screens?

    Early in the study of genetics there was a theory that acquired characteristics (for example tanned skin) could be passed on to the next generation. Some people still believe that. But our understanding of Mendelian genetics put that theory to rest over a century ago.

    Blogging ones way through a genetics course could be tedious but if you have specific Q’s probably I could answer them.

  463. I’m starting to tear up….thanks

  464. tine…
    apparently you feel that global warming is man made and others believe it is natural…..but the real question is is taxing carbon going to help or just make Gore richer

  465. UAW, I’m holding you and your wife in my thoughts.

  466. UAW, keeping you both close in thoughts & prayers. PS if you need to vent or just release, go to my blog. my email is there. Been through the hospice experience. Take care, okay? You’re a good man, Charlie Brown :) Hugs to your wife.

  467. Oh Dear God in heaven, uaw, my prayers are with you and your wife.

  468. More talk radio frustration. It seems Obama has managed to get a bill passed by the senate finance committee that even unions don’t support! The dems must be quaking in their boots!

    Duh, the unions, and even dems, are struggling to get behind a bill that is by definition not liberal enough! Scared? They say that like the that senate bill was too liberal. Uh, not! Let the negoatiations begin!

  469. greytdog…
    thanks for asking
    hospice has been mentioned and her oncologist said he can’t do anymore and tommorow we have an appointment at the Karmanos cancer center in Detroit

  470. “there are a lot of scientists that disagree with global warming…”

    Depends on what you consider “a lot.” Yes, they might fill my living room. Maybe even my whole house. But they comprise approximately 1% (probably less, actually) of the scientific community.

    You can call me a liar if you want, but I’ve read the raw research and have delved deeply into the theories of climate skeptics. There are reasons to disagree about specific details but there is NO significant disagreement on the overall reality of anthropogenic climate change. The loudest skeptics are cherrypicking uncertainties and blowing them wildly out of proportion.

    As for the the newly thriving forests of Greenland… IMO this fact hardly makes up for the death and destruction already being wrought by climate change. And it’s only going to get worse. A lot worse.

  471. no Juneaujo……
    there are a lot of scientists that disagree with global warming (scientists not politicians)……if you think that people with PHD’s are idiots then I guess I can call people with PHD’s idiots also….so what is the natural temp of the world supposed to be????
    “Greenland has been on the cusp of agriculture since the 16th century. Before this, agriculture was practiced by Viking settlers. Then came the “Little Ice Age” of the 16th century, wiping out Norse settlers and dooming agriculture in the region. But temperatures have been rising steadily since the 80s, and farming may soon be possible.” and “One of these forests, Qanasiassat, is beginning to thrive according to caretaker Poul Bjerge. Long since dormant, the pine trees in this forest have begun to show new growth.”


    now if we’re getting into opinions then I believe that the only thing taxing carbon is going to do is make Al Gore richer

  472. Thanks for your good thoughts, Jean. Maria actually seems sicker tonight than she was this afternoon, so the comfort is much appreciated!

  473. Hi gang and Tine,

    I do hope your little one only has the usual childhood big sniffles. They can be awfully scary at the onset.

    Give her plenty of fluids and mommy TLC, which we all know you can deliver beautifully.

    Please keep us posted. We grandmas are worryworts.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  474. Hi gang and Raji at 4:25A,

    Raji, You’re up at 4:25 AM??? Just kidding. I know something about time zone differences. We get phone calls from people who don’t, at all odd hours.

    Points well taken in Robert Naimen’s article. Thanks for putting it up.

    A mercernary is a mercenary is a mercenary. Remember Blackwater?

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  475. Just one question: UAW, how’s your wife?

  476. Grandma Katie:

    The rain here in Oregon is warm compared to AK.
    We have a real fall with trees changing colors.

    Global Warming is real! Trtying to pull the CHENEY/BUSH crap of denial of facts just shows the stupidity of the Cheney/Bush followers.

    Scientists have proven beyond a doubt that GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL and the opportunity to turn it around is about to pass.


    Think Carbon Footprint!

  477. JuneauJoe – have had a couplle of fabulous days . hope you are having the same!It rained here! fabulous. I thought it had forgotten how.

  478. alaskan…
    apparently it took you 10 min to do a little fact-checking….but first you called me a liar…..Asshat

  479. http://detnews.com/article/20091011/OPINION03/910110312/Rush-ing-to-judgment–National-commentators-don-t-understand-Detroit-s-plight

  480. Global Warming 101 | Union of Concerned Scientists http://bit.ly/AOwMJ

  481. UAW,

    Somehow you missed the reports with perfectly rational sounding people talking about the faults in the system and chaos being the City of Detroits problem in not handling the crowds and organization of the facility well.

    Yes, there are some who don’t even know what they are signing up for, but there were others who were very well informed that they were signing up for stimulus programs to help them stay out of foreclosure. Foreclosure is not good for anyone in the economy right now because the shady home loans and deregulation of wall street are what created the mess in the first place.

    So please don’t blame it all on a couple of well chosen sound bites that make everyone seem ignorant. You can always find data to support your slant. That goes for both sides. How about you present the full picture before you trash just one side?

  482. UAW,

    The link posted about Obama Stash doesn’t even make any sense. It is an unauthored audio clip with no facts and no references. Are you to believe it is “for real”, just because they say it in graphics? WTF

    Do some fact checking and don’t believe everything you hear or read. People sounding ignorant doesn’t mean that you are proving your point.

  483. Limbaugh is being dropped from the group he’s in that’s attempting to buy the St. Louis Rams.

    That’s right folks, THE EGO HAS LANDED! He FAILED!

    I can’t even imagine what that hate monger will have to say about the ungrateful n—-rs he thought he had a chance to OWN. You know… make things as good as they were when this country was founded and all.

    Such a happy day. Small wins!

  484. poolman…
    I didn’t like the report when I heard it on WJR either but it did happen(Obama’s stash)
    maybe we should also cut out the waste and fraud in education and put the money in healthcare…education has sure failed in Detroit(different reports have a dropout range of 35% to 65%)


  485. greytdog?????
    atmospheric weather patterns???????
    “Crawford also said sea temperatures in the tropical Atlantic are cooler, by about 2 degrees Fahrenheit (1.12 degrees Celsius) on average, than the blistering seasons of 2004,”
    a 2 degree drop in the atlantic is an atmospheric condition?????
    it sounds like a hell-of-a drop in BTU energy to me…

  486. Yes, Palin’s picture was appropriate next to the meaning of WATB. I clicked on the site for her book and Newsmax is selling it for $8.95, or you get it free with a subscription to Newsmax. Sounds like they’re realling trying to run up the number “sold,” as opposed to read.

  487. Good point, Dawn. ;)

    And speaking of fever & coughing, etc… Could I trouble my friends here to think good thoughts for my 3-year-old?

    She’s coming down with something that has the earmarks of flu. And she’s had the seasonal flu shot, so I can’t stop thinking (and worrying) about H1N1. :(

  488. On watb, I love how Sarah Palin’s picture was right next to the definition. Probably not on purpose, but hilarious just the same.

    I think she is the poster child for “she can dish it out, but not take it.”

  489. uaw tradesman, that pigstv video is hilarious! :lol:

    The other one, not so much.

    Expect more extreme weather, both cold and hot, as time progresses. Also look to the earth’s magnetic field interfering with climate, too.

  490. Haven’t been here for awhile. Interesting posts.

    “The Khyber Pass between the two countries has been CONTROLLED by outside forces for a time; going all the way back to Alexander the Great and up to the British Empire and Russia. However, NONE have ever been able to subdue the tribal peoples of that rugged area. I don’t know why we think we can. By military force anyway. ” from Jean’s post.
    EXACTLY!!! What are we doing there? For humdreds of years, the tribal people have ruled. What makes us think we can change anything especially if Karzai’s govt is as corrupt as it sounds. An Iranian coworker stated when all this started we went to the wrong country in the 1st place. He thought Iran should be the place to start. Don’t know about that…

    No One’s Puppet, thanks for the book recommendation on Bin Laden.

    Tine, Careful about the “grrrs” when thinking about insurance companies as your blood pressure will go up, and next thing you know you’ll be without insurance.

    Please everyone, wash your hands, sneeze into your sleeves and if you get fever, chills, body aches etc take fever reducers, drink A LOT of liquids, and REST. If you develop a troubling cough, have trouble keeping fluids down seek medical attention.

  491. So we all assume that folks who won’t be named are “trolls” because they like to come here, seem reasonable, then start spewing, then start whining. . . they’re not trolls. They’re WATBs. http://bit.ly/1t0RL4

  492. UAW, please stop mistaking atmospheric weather patterns for climate change/global warming.

  493. think global warming



  494. LOL @ all of you lima bean lovers! I think the texture is a big part of why I don’t like them. But I DO like okra, fried or pickled. Different strokes for different folks!
    Dying to hear M&H’s take on the Nobel Peace Prize…

  495. this is funny

  496. Here is the best information I have seen on Health Care Reform and the public option.


    CALIFORNIA – Drought: Think Global Warming.

  497. ccleaner erased name sorry

  498. what California needs to do is watch Detroit and get some money from Obama’s stash….

    Yes we have our own woman governor…..but hopefully not for long…. maybe she’ll pull a Palin(I keep hoping)

  499. Hi Grandma Katie,

    Hope your day is going well. I am goofing off in Oregon. WE have rain in OR too. I must say, CA needs rain, Lake Shasta had almost no water in it – sorry sight actually.

  500. thymeCher – heard another of Meg Whitman’s ads this am. does she think she is Superwoman who is going to redo California immediately?
    WE have suffered through several years of the Terminator and look how well he did. anyhow Ithink we have another Sarah Paln on our hands.
    Oh happy day! It has rained a bit, at leasst here we haven’t had heavy rain like further north. waS beginning to think it had forgotten h ow to rain!!

  501. Enjoy


  502. Good article, well worth reading.Robert Naimen’s view.

    “In particular, if it’s true that 70% of the insurgency consists of “$10-a-day Taliban,” as a Senate report estimates, that suggests that we could make deals with (at least) 70% of the insurgency. Suppose that these deals cost us $20 per day, per fighter, and that there are 15,000 Taliban fighters overall. Then a deal with 70% of the insurgency would cost $210,000 per day. The war, on the other hand, costs $165 million per day.

    If you assume that fighting this 70% of the insurgency has average cost, then fighting these 70% of Taliban fighters costs $115.5 million per day. So, if we made a deal with them, instead of fighting them, we’d save $115.3 million dollars, every day, for an annual savings of $42 billion dollars. By comparison, if the 10 year cost of health reform is a trillion dollars, then the annual cost is $100 billion. So making a deal with 70% of the Afghan insurgency would pay for roughly half of the cost of health care reform.”


  503. Hi gang and jsri,

    Okra? No thanks. Lima beans? Yum! Yum!

    I would like to have a little discussion about “Memetics” somewhere along the line, but first, there needs to a brief refresher course in “Genetics”. jsri, you are by far the best qualified to do that so we need your help. It is interesting what lengths we humans will go to in order to change our genetic makeup. Example, you don’t like your hair color? Check out the L’Oréal aisle at Wal-Mart and choose a color you like. Don’t like your eye color? Get yourself a pair of brown, blue or whatever contact lenses. Plastic surgery does a brisk business in nipping and tucking nature’s perceived mistakes. If you feel you are too short, I even heard of some place where you can have both your legs broken, stretched out and kept in casts for six months until the bones grow together again. Yikes! But you can gain 3-4 inches in height that way. This coming from an Old Broad who was too chicken to get her ears pierced until she was 60 years old.

    “Memetics” are similar to “Genetics” in that they are CULTURAL traits handed down from one generation to another rather than BIOLOGICAL traits. Those can be changed too. Sometimes though they are just as deeply ingrained as the biological traits.

    On to another topic, today I harvested our Awapuhi Ginger Shampoo from our Pitiful Little Patch. It is seasonal and only blooms in the late summer/fall. The blossom looks sort of like a wine-ish red hand grenade about 6 inches long. I squeezed them and out dripped a viscous fluid. Next I strained out the bits of plant debris into a large measuring cup and Viola! Awapuhi shampoo. This is the body soap and shampoo the native Hawaiians have used since time immemorial.

    Over the years I have saved the little shampoo bottles from hotels as well as prescription medicine bottles. I wash them out good, then pour the shampoo into those little bottles and freeze them. Since they don’t have any fragrances or preservatives, I don’t know how long they would keep otherwise. Whenever I want a bottle of shampoo, I just take one out and thaw it. It is a fine shampoo and a wonderful conditioner combined. I give them to all our friends on the condition that they return the empty little bottles for next year’s harvest.

    I would send all of you some but I would want my little bottles back!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean


  504. My gravatar is Alex the young dog.

  505. Lima beans also taste great in a white sauce.

    What I’d like to have is a big ole plate of spareribs and sauerkraut with lima beans in a white sauce and fried potato cakes.

  506. Yes I have had okra fried and fried in cornmeal. I have had okra many ways and will always try a bite. It is disgusting. I eat oysters and love them raw. I will eat almost everything and like almost anything. Okra just flat sucks. Sorry, but even when I find some I like which will possibly happen some time, I certainly won’t trust my own assessment at first. It is something I will have to accept slowly!!!

  507. I’ll chime in in defense of the lima bean too. What’s not to like? Like any veggie, they taste great with a little butter and salt and pepper. Yummy.

    Plus, they remind me of my little boy. I called him butterbean (another name for lima beans) when he was a baby because he was such a little pudge.

  508. Pickled spicy okra is tops. :grin: I can eat a whole jar in a few minutes. Fried is great. Raw out of the garden is good. Cooked otherwise is too slimy for my liking.

  509. Claire, I definitely have to take up for the lima bean. I do not know what the poor thing has done to my husband especially and well, to you too. Would you please try this: cut up about 4oz of beef smoked sausage, add to one pound baby lima beans, one cup of water, one chicken bouillon cube, and a dash of salt (omit salt if you so desire). Bring to a boil. Simmer for 10 minutes. Voila! Makes a nice side dish to any meal. I have other recipes if you are willing to give them a try. Just holler.

  510. Fried okra is to die for!

    Keith in NM

  511. Hi gang and Bruddah Peas,

    It worked! Mahalo good buddy. As I’ve said before, you are a computer geinus.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  512. Farsight–ever had it fried? It’s really delicious. Honest. I mean it.

  513. Hi gang,

    This is my first attempt at following Brudda Peas instructions on how to post a YouTubie. I hope it works.

    Nora the Piano Cat – Concerto

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  514. Are you kidding me?

  515. Ok, so I’m gonna have to chime in about vegetables that, in my opinion, are inedible. It is only one and it is okra. Don’t believe anyone who tells you, “yes, but you’ll like the way I cook mine.” The only way to disguise it is in gumbo and then it due to percentage of volume.

    If you saw Ellen yesterday, you know who the following fellow is. Otherwise, maybe not. If it takes a while to load, I think you will find it worth the wait. Hope this is an enjoyable diversion waiting for Helen…

  516. A REAL Maverick, Olympia Snowe:


    Keith in NM

  517. I LOVE this too:

    Thomas Jefferson from 1816: “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

    Keith in NM

  518. Greytdog: No doubt!

    This is also very interesting (single payor)


    Keith in NM

  519. Keith, I suspect that passage from Acts will be stricken from the Conservative Bible. So socialist, so liberal. (sigh)

  520. As for the right wing being against health reform…. that’s anti-Christian:

    Acts 2:44-45 says, “All who believed were together and had all things in common; and they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need.”

    Keith in NM

  521. re: fat people being poor people….. well, if you had to work two or three jobs just to keep a roof over your (and your family’s) head, keep up with ever rising prices and keep the car from being repossessed you’d find yourself at the nearest fast-food drive up because not only do you not have time to cook a meal, the kids are screaming and someone has to run grandma(pa) to the free-clinic, but you’re just damned tired and just can’t think about cooking… healthy or otherwise… and time to exercise? Oh yeah… let’s not go there!

    Keith in NM

  522. So we dont have to fake accents for the next few years, eh? :)

    BTW, meant to share this link earlier…

    AP Newsbreak: Nobel jury defends Obama decision


  523. Waaaay back when I was hitchhiking in Europe (1963ish) we were among the first bunch of Americans traveling that way. A bit later, “The Ugly American” was published. That was when Americans first started putting Canadian flags on their backpacks and pretending they lived in a boring but sane country.

  524. One of my good friends, who travels abroad frequently recently admitted to me that she was forced to speaking like a Canadian, while overseas, because during the last 8 years Americans were not treated as well and that there has been an amazing shift now that Obama is our president.

  525. Delurker Girl Δ Sean Hannity is an idiot. Sadly, not the only idiot getting a lot of air time. Too bad they just won’t go away because I totally ignore them. I even try not to click on youtubes or articles about them because I don’t want them to get another single point (or hit?)

    Back when GWB was POTUS, I had 4 miserable years followed by another 4 extraordinarily miserable years. I (in my optimistic brain) actually thought that if I could just survive those years and we managed to elect almost anyone else, this could only get better. And it really has gotten a bit better but all this craziness that comes out of the woodwork like wood worms is sometimes a little too much. Were it not for the sane minds and voices I find here, it would be a whole lot worse.

    Thank you all for a bit of sanity in a really crazy world.

  526. Sunshine, she is the light of my life. And you’re right, every move!!!!

  527. wow, so Im not alone in the Tourette Syndrome belief

    what a shocker (NOT)


  528. Hi gang and Brudda Peas at 10/13, 7:40A.

    Huh? Say what? On posting links. Well, you can teach an Old Bitch new tricks, but it ain’t easy for her. I’ll have to study this URL stuff. Maybe I can get the hang of it.

    Mahalo for spelling it out for me.

    Aloha! :-)

    Sistah Jean

  529. HRH Sophia EQ Oh, what a little cutie. Don’t you just love to squeeze those little cheeks. Have a little 11 mo. old great grandaughter. Cannot stop watching her every move and expressions. So precious, aren’t they?

  530. ImaginistaΔ, I had not viewed that clip of Rachel. Thanks for sharing it – it was truly excellent.

  531. Olympia Snowe (R) backs senate health care bill.


  532. Been away from the porch for a few days, but after playing catch up here in the comments section I noticed that nobody has of yet posted the most excellent Rachel Maddow comments on the Nobel. She is just so incredibly smart. Watch: http://blog.beliefnet.com/onecity/2009/10/obama-nobel-peace-prize-for-what-rachel-maddow-thich-nhat-hanh.html

    Reminder to all Pie Clubbers – trolls who are not fed do not keep hanging around waiting for scraps!

    Love y’all!

  533. I didn’t make that text red. Must have been an html symbol in what I pasted. I thought I’d clarify since I didn’t want you to think I was targeting specific definitions to suit my agenda. :)

  534. Thanks for the info HRH, I knew somewone would set me straight.. ;-)

  535. How do YOU define peace?

    Sean Hannity defines PEACE:
    “Liberals define peace as the absence of conflict. I define peace very simply as the ability to defend yourself and destroy evil enemies.”

    Mirriam Webster defines PEACE:
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English pees, from Anglo-French pes, pees, from Latin pac-, pax; akin to Latin pacisci to agree — more at pact
    Date: 12th century
    1 : a state of tranquillity or quiet: as a : freedom from civil disturbance b : a state of security or order within a community provided for by law or custom
    2 : freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions
    3 : harmony in personal relations
    4 a : a state or period of mutual concord between governments b : a pact or agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity
    5 —used interjectionally to ask for silence or calm or as a greeting or farewell
    — at peace : in a state of concord or tranquillity

  536. Another confirmation…. proof… fact…. that the republican’s that supported and PAID for this nonsense is off the political spectrum. Make no mistake the GOP paid for her silliness, and the birther movement…..and that’s OK… assuming the contributors to the GOP knew this was a cause worth fighting backed the leadership … BUT what about the other 75 percent of this country? This “cause” has consumed how many man hours??????… how much tax dollars???? Judges, clerks, bailiffs, local police??????

    Pisses me off….. all for what? I’ll tell you what…Because a black man is sleeping in the White House.

  537. I knew you would, Donna. I scooped ya!

    Her reactions are so bizarre. Not “Yes sir” but “bite me!” OK, she didn’t say “bite me”, she said it’s intimidation and will not pay the fine. Borderline delusional? The judge was kind.

    I couldn’t find Fox News’ version of the story, but did find that they are reporting “The Peace Prize is Damaged Goods”.

  538. Delurker! I just zoomed here to tell you!!!

  539. It’s a(nother) bad day for the birthers. Orly sanctioned $20K. :D


  540. YOU”RE not your. Toobusy getting fingers to hit right keys and didn’t pay attention to the grammar. I’ve been practincing old piano exercises with my right hand and typing seems to be improving.
    No real piano. Just practicing the finger movements on desk or what ever is handy!

  541. vgmanΔ on October 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM

    The mindset of “America can do no wrong” trolls.


  542. in re to the troll comment on Karzai, this is a great analysis of Roots of Right-Wing Populist Rage — Reds to Beds http://bit.ly/19YsnU

  543. HRH Sofia EQ, she’s a beauty! I love her adorable face, even messy!

    Tine, when I got mad about that story it was because they relented and decided to cover healthy heavy infants. Not all heavy ones.

    What I didn’t say was that they didn’t say they’d cover heavy toddlers, children, teens and adults – healthy or not.

    Statistically, heavier people tend to be poorer people. I don’t know if causality has been established, but you don’t get fit and healthy eating cheap boxes of macaroni and cheese and ramen noodles, and that crap is far less expensive than nutritious whole food. So, IMO, they may be fat because they are poor. They may get sick because they are fat. Those cheap trashy carbs can lead to diabetes and heart disease, especially if they don’t have access to health care. They may be descriminated against for jobs (and health care) because they are overweight. It’s a system built to suppress people.

    Hide your grandmas, people. We already have death panels.

  544. JuneauJoe – when I said I hadn’t scrolled fast enough, I wasn’t referring to your post !! I was typing when y ou posted!
    Glad your back. Are you going to miss Alaska and the winter?

  545. OG, nice to see you again! Please give that nephew of yours a squeeze and a thank you from me while you’re at it. :)

  546. OceanGypsi, I just peaked at the photos of your nephew, he looks like a wonderful person. I’m so glad you will soon get to squeeze him in person. I hope you have a wonderful visit and that he will live long and prosper.

  547. arrrgggh…trying to rein in that head-about-to-explode feeling…

    The story about the ins. co. declining a “heavy” infant is just one more example among millions that show “health” insurance companies have nothing whatsoever to do with health. These people have obviously done *zero* research on pediatric growth patterns and outcomes.

    Another excellent example is their asinine pregnancy and birth policies. They often refuse to cover midwifery care and flatly refuse to cover midwife-attended homebirth for low-risk women despite the fact that midwifery care and homebirth produce better outcomes with much lower costs (like thousands of dollars less PER WOMAN).


    Ins. co. policies are designed to make money. End of story.

  548. “Healthy four month old health insurance denied because he is at 99% for height and weight

    This is very scary for me personally. I had no idea that many health insurance companies deny coverage for infants over the 95%.

    My beautiful granddaughter has been over 90% in height and weight from the moment she was born at 9lb 13oz. They had induced labor at the due date so she wouldn’t get bigger. She is now almost 5mos old and at 97%. She comes by it honestly since her dad is 6’3″ and mom is 6′ and neither is obese or even close to it. They are big people with size 12 feet. (and both very talented, bright, fantastic people if I may be so bold as to say so)

    I guess if her mom had smoked and drunk alcohol and not taken her vitamins, she could have produced a baby more suited to our health care system.

    She has just begun eating solid foods and I know it’s not making her fat because so little of it actually reaches her stomach. But we’re working on it, along with teaching her to howl. I couldn’t get the photo to copy here but just in case you can’t resist baby pics,


    Yes, I know I’m shameless. But at my age I feel its acceptable behavior.

  549. Thanks to the link to the story, Joe. I hadn’t included one in my post. Your link didn’t say that they’ll cover healthy heavy infants, just heavy infants. I wonder if the site I read was incorrect? I would have to go back and find it.

    Either way, they fixed it because they got caught. That family lost coverage and whoever they went to about it didn’t fix the issue until the issue was taken public. What other criteria can they use to reject people? Thousands and thousands of pages of criteria. They don’t even have to prove it. They reject people, or reject covering requested treatments, and only customers tough enough to duke it out with them get the coverage they shouldn’t have been denied in the first place.

  550. Wow ..I just love you ladies.
    You too Poolman.
    My fork is down.

  551. There are only 2 vegetables I have no use for, one is the lima bean. The other is, well, you know who….lol.

  552. arrrghhh….please ignore Craig. He’ll go away if you do. He’ll continue to spout stupidity if you don’t.

  553. Healthy four month old health insurance denied because he is at 99% for height and weight


  554. Yaaaaahhhoooooo, Auntie Jean! Loved, loved, loved your posting of the Honorable Judge William Young’s ruling! Loved it!!! Lov-ed it!

    I have been uber-busy with my daughter’s homework, volunteering at her school, my studies, and and have taken on a new project at work. I haven’t been on this blog in several weeks. I arrived this morning to find pictures of Auntie Jean, Lori, and Poolman to name a few. Hiya, you guys!! So nice to see you!!

    I am so excited! My nephew is coming home for R&R from Afghanistan and should be here today or tomorrow. I can’t wait. I CANNOT wait. I want to squeeze him so hard when I hug him and tell him how much I miss him and am proud of him. I want to look into his eyes and see what is going on in his mind and spirit.

    Please continue to keep all of our soldiers in your prayers! I have missed reading all of your thoughts. See you soon!


  555. Wellpoint and the revolving door into important health care committees. The health insurance companies make the health care laws.


  556. Quoting JeanΔ ¥ @12:36a:

    “I wish I knew how to do YouTubies here. Never mind. I’ll rest on my laurels with my avatar for a while. That was hard enough!”

    Hey Jean,

    ‘Linking’ YouTubes (or anything for that matter) is real easy. Everything on the internet has an address that starts with the letters ‘http://’.


    It’s called a URL (Uniform Resource Locator) and can be found at the top of every page in the Address bar. Highlight it, then ‘Right-click’ (the other button) with your mouse. ‘Copy’ then ‘Paste’ it here in the comments.

    Simple as pie! I’m looking forward to seeing what you link here Jean. Have fun!

    PEACE ~ Δ

  557. From the troll last night–

    “Take Hamid Karzai out back and tell him to find another sheep herder job.”

    On a scale of 1 to 10 you’re off the charts when it comes to ignorance.
    I may not agree with Afghan politics and leadership, but I don’t generalize and shine a light on ignorance by equating a man who has a master’s degree in political science and speaks six languages to a sheep herder.

    It is this kind of bellicose talk that the world has come to expect from America after eight years of saber-rattling.

    What experiences in your life, Craig, give you the right to belittle another human being? Oh, right–You’re from the ‘greatest’ country on earth!

  558. Under public pressure Rocky Mountain Health Plans said Monday that it will insure the ‘too big to insure’ baby, and will no longer consider obesity a pre-existing condition for rejecting coverage for heavy infants.

    “The insurer said Monday it would change its policy for babies that are *healthy* but fat.” (emphasis mine)

    OK. Now who will insure the babies who are not healthy?

  559. Oh Farsight Δ, Thank you so much for that youtube! I’m sending the link to my daughter in law so she can play it for the GD. I won’t see her again for a couple of weeks. (sniff, sniff, amazing how much I miss her when she goes home. Luckily home is just a 2 hr train ride so I see her regularly. Her other grandmother sadly has to fly from the other coast to see her. )

    In fact, I believe I’ll send the link to almost everyone I know, I already sent the Doo Wop to many.

    I just read on the internet that emails have become obsolete. Twitters and all have surpassed them. Well, I feel comfortable with the email system and although I get Skypes of my granddaughter, I hope my little circle of emailers continues to prosper. Especially now with winter darkness descending on us. It’s still a great way for us to get a dose of “in touch, lite” without having to know what each of us is doing or thinking every minute.

  560. Lori,
    Turnips are either white or white with purple shoulders but both are white inside. Rutabagas are mostly yellow but also with purple shoulders and are generally about 4 x the size of turnips, sometimes called Swedes. Both have a similar, sweet flavor, the rutabagas are a bit dryer and are definitely a stronger flavor.
    Both are improved by roasting but mashed rutabagas are the required version for our Thanksgivings, done them for about 39 years in a row now.

    I’ve never met a vegetable I don’t love.

  561. Lori: Turnips and rutabagas do taste somewhat similar, but they look very different. Turnips are white with a purple-y sheen. Rutabagas are golden yellow.

  562. The Amish shun, the service academies also shun, seems like a good plan for us. It occurs to me, we are never going to entice Helen with vegetables, pie recipes on the other hand….

  563. I think an old tennis shoe would taste good if you rolled it in olive oil and roasted with with onions and garlic.. ;-) That is my method of choice when it comes to all veggies. I’m pretty sure rutabagas and turnips are the same thing??? at least that is what my father use to say. I suppose I could look it up! LOL But I’m feeling lazy this morning and I know my fellows porch sitters will let me know..

    Well today the senate will vote on a healthcare bill. I’m proud of that! Just a few weeks ago when the summer recess began there were those who didn’t think it would be possible. We overcame a billion dollars of lobbying and a ruthless opponent that sunk so low as to scare our elderly. It isn’t perfect, and it isn’t the final bill, but it is a good solid start and I am proud of us. ;-) Next is the House, then on to reconciliation.

    I believe we will have a bill by Christmas, with a public option type clause, it will require care for all no matter pre-condition, and I think it will eventually low the cost at the very least stem the sharp increases we have seen in recent years. I think it will require all to be insured. It will pass with very little repug support. The bluedogs with big insurance companies in their state (and their pockets) will be pulled along by the “all insured” amendment. I think by the New Year Obama’s numbers will be holding steady in the mid 50′s and congress will be in the 30′s. Right direction will teeter near 40′s. I think we will take a little hit in November, due mostly to weak democratic candidates. I do think we will win a few though.

    It wasn’t pretty, and mistakes were made along the way, but we HAVE a bill…. In the world of politics that is nothing short of a miracle. We can’t stop our fight, if it weren’t for people like us this would not have been possible… truly … the people’s voice made this happen. Congrat’s my fellow porch sitters.


  564. Hi gang and farsight Δ,

    You are full fledged here now with your new avatar. Congrats! Is that Kyle?

    Kyle is DEFINITELY in the porch band. He is in fine voice with the Doo Wop Horses. I think I said we need more tenors. He’s a perfect tenor.

    We once had a cat that loved corn on the cob. She had to have her butter and salt on it. She would take it outside on the grass, lie down, hold it with her paws on the ends, and munch away across it, one row of kernels at a time.

    I have a strong hunch that Helen and maybe Margaret will show up tomorrow. I hope so.

    Nighty-night all,

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  565. Thanks poolman. We think he is quite entertaining. When he was young, we discovered that if we opened a bottle of something that he didn’t like the smell of, he would curl his lip. It was so endearing that we had to control ourselves from eliciting the response. When we give him peanut butter, he goes into a front leg legging behavior that is kind of interesting. He does like peanut butter so we don’t feel bad about that. I’ll have to try peanut butter and cauliflower.

    I understand cutting people slack and giving them a second chance. However, in the particular instance we are talking about, I had a strong feeling that we would get nowhere.

  566. Hi gang and Greytdog,

    “The Fun Theory” is priceless! A perfect example of of good meme.

    I wish I knew how to do YouTubies here. Never mind. I’ll rest on my laurels with my avatar for a while. That was hard enough!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  567. Alaskan, sorry. I always give everyone a lot of extra chances. I’m an optimist at heart and I give people lots of slack. Sometimes it pays off. Much of the time I get burned or taken advantage of. The old “turn the other cheek” bit. But what the heck, others don’t have any tolerance, so it seems to even the playing field.

    farsight Δ, that Kyle and the doo wops is great! I bet he is very entertaining.

  568. To endorse Alaskan’s way of dealing with a troll by not engaging and as a reminder of some of the troll’s less than honorable posts (you can search back and find this early on in this thread — not for the faint of heart):

    “Well first
    I just had to come back and see what crap was being parrlayed this week and it seems like the same ole smell continues to permeate.

    Just a Republican Smacking
    …democratic Love Fest.

    I guess it’s because I don’t need your endorsement or high fives.

    And as to the women’s club thing..

    It doesn’t take long to count the posts and monitor
    what the demographic makeup of this site is comprised of..

    Nothing to do now but jerk off looking at myself in the mirror. I am so fab.
    Goona get me some pie as you would say…

  569. Oh darn Poolman, you gave him another hit. You mentioned his name. That’s all he wants. It is like a cobra, sway and sway and make nice and then all of a sudden strike out and lash.

    Too banal, too boring, always the same.

    As my father in law says “Some guests are like fish. Ok for the first day, a little ripe the second and by the third, it just stinks.”

    He is like a male Sarah Palin, plays all nice to your face and then back stabs you when you aren’t looking or expecting it. But the jig is up because we all expect it now….from both of you.

  570. On the subject of food and pets. One of my girlfriends from decades ago had a cat that was absolutely crazy for cantaloupe. If there were rinds under the sink, Beep (as he was called) would claw the cabinet door open to get to them and drag them out all over the kitchen floor and chew on them.

    As Richard Brautigan said in one of his books. Of all the things I’ll probably see in this lifetime one of them is not a can of Cat Cantaloupe (paraphrased). Apparently, many cats have a thing with cantaloupe.

  571. Craig, this site definitely supports America. We are for all Americans – white, black, brown, yellow, red, male, female, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, assexual, democrats, republicans, libertarians, independents, socialists, communists, all religions, all creeds, all ages, sizes, and shapes. We also support our elected president and all branches of our military.

    We don’t want to secede or divide the country or force our beliefs on anyone. We want to fix our country and respect our representatives (if they prove they deserve it). We get a little (or a lot) uppity when other Americans don’t feel the same way.

    We all have the same ability to contact our representatives and use our vote and voice to better this nation for ALL Americans. We don’t think that disruption, threats, and rude behavior are the way to affect change in our society. Falsehoods and misinformation do not become valid just because they are broadcast to the masses over and over again.

    We will entertain all intelligent suggestions and viewpoints that have the desire to better us or our country. Most of us are here to learn and share knowledge. We come from all walks of life.

  572. HRH Sofia EQ,

    Yes it is Kyle who loves cauliflower. The one I referred to in an earlier post as our heart dog. He is a joy.

    Ok, so if you’ll remember there was some talk of a porch band here. Somehow Kyle got wind of it and bugged me about auditioning for it. I explained that I didn’t think auditions were required, but he was having none of it. Maybe your granddaughter will like “Kyle and The Doo Wops”:

  573. Drat, I didn’t scroll fast enough!

  574. by Frank Rich

    Those of us who love F. Scott Fitzgerald must acknowledge that he did get one big thing wrong. There are second acts in American lives. (Just ask Marion Barry, or William Shatner.) The real question is whether everyone deserves a second act. Perhaps the most surreal aspect of our great Afghanistan debate is the Beltway credence given to the ravings of the unrepentant blunderers who dug us into this hole in the first place.

    Let’s be clear: Those who demanded that America divert its troops and treasure from Afghanistan to Iraq in 2002 and 2003 – when there was no Qaeda presence in Iraq – bear responsibility for the chaos in Afghanistan that ensued. Now they have the nerve to imperiously and tardily demand that America increase its 68,000-strong presence in Afghanistan to clean up their mess – even though the number of Qaeda insurgents there has dwindled to fewer than 100, according to the president’s national security adviser, Gen. James Jones.

  575. Mmmmmmmm brussel sprouts

  576. Now this is real energy giving stuff here. ‘Neanderthal repellent’. I am so freakin’ glad I wasn’t drinking something when I read that.

    I think after the meal we should all have Latte’s. The wingnuts hate latte’s.

  577. Alaskan …misogynist |məˈsäjənist|..?
    a man who hates women.
    Hey there Lady..I’m happily married to the gal I met in high school..and have been with her for 44 years
    married for 34 of those..and 1/2 half Italian, she is the best damn cook and baker who would put all to shame..I’ve got the pounds to prove it…and I love her so!

    JeanΔ ¥

    Troll here..as some people refer to me.
    I read that transcript somewhere over the weekend and loved it. Just hope it was a true accounting.

    DeLuker Girl..
    Why the snort? neanderthal?

    Ladies I’m here as a person to listen..take notes and then some times rattle your hamster cages. Apparently your down to exchanging recipes for entertainment. Thats good.
    Some of the best are from the heart of American homes who have culled them over the tears.

    Hey attack me all you want..some make it their day by banging away at the troll as some consider me.

    I don’t know if this thread or site supports America or not?

    Now I’m not saying that you have to grab a gun..but if your son or neighbors son or daughter is in harms way..then By Damn you had better support them.

    I’m not speaking for John Wayne …but Dammit
    That young man in the White House better get it right.

    There are people tonight or today that are in in harms way that say believe they are protecting a country from being over run by the Taliban as well as establishing a safe haven.

    Then again they hear that the country or regime they are trying to protect is corrupt and rigged.

    Take Hamid Karzai out back and tell him to find another sheep herder job.
    He would at least end up better off than
    Ngo Dinh Diem and his brother in 1962 South Vietnam when Kennedy and the Generals looked the other way.

    All I’m saying is please do not pull the rug out from under our troops.

    Either send in the 40,000 troops requested by the ground commander you installed and let him fight the war with two hands ..

    But for Gods sake do not tie one hand behind his back and play politics ..and expect a pretty political outcome.

  578. Here is a great recipe for kale. I had a hard time trying to figure out what to do with kale.

    3 cups white rice and 5 or so cups of broth. Chicken or vegetarian. Several tablespoons of cajun spice. Start the rice and broth boiling and add 1 can of red beans or black beans or kidney beans. Then add 1 large bunch of kale cut down into small strips or squares. Simmer for 20 mintues. The broth makes the rice like risotta texture. This is great with cajun or pesto shrimp skewers on top the bed of rice.


  579. Torture: You guys are making me hungry! You people are cruel.

  580. love them! Roasted. Sliced and sauteed with garlic. Steamed. And, of course, love them most when they are still on their stalks from the farmers’ market.

  581. Brussels sprouts!

  582. borscht. Sauteed beet greens. TOFU

  583. Golden beets are great in salad.

  584. I’m completely cracking up here. Beets: in salad. Roasted. Steamed. Pickled. TOFU!

  585. I call tofu after we’ve thoroughly cogitated upon beets.

  586. I love Harvard Beets.

  587. Neanderthal repellant. Tine, you just made me snort!

  588. Hi gang,

    I am about to take up a whole lot of cyberspace on M&H. All trolls are invited to scroll on by.

    Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and tried to light it? Everyone should hear what the judge had to say.

    Ruling by Judge William Young, US District Court.

    Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say. His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his ‘allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah,’ defiantly stating, ‘I think I will not apologize for my actions,’ and told the court ‘I am at war with your country.’

    Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below:

    January 30, 2003, United States vs. Reid.

    Judge Young: ‘Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.

    On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General. On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutively. (That’s 80 years.)

    On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years again, to be served consecutively to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you for each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 that’s an aggregate fine of $2 million. The Court accepts the government’s recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.

    The Court imposes upon you an $800 special assessment. The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.

    This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence.

    Now, let me explain this to you. We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is too much war talk here and I say that to everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court, we deal with individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals. As human beings, we reach out for justice.

    You are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether the officers of government do it or your attorney does it, or if you think you are a soldier, you are not—– you are a terrorist. And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not meet with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.

    So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You’re no warrior. I’ve known warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal that is guilty of multiple attempted murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and the TV crews were, and he said: ‘You’re no big deal.’

    You are no big deal.

    What your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today?

    I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing? And, I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you, but as I search this entire record, it comes as close to understanding as I know.

    It seems to me you hate the one thing that to us is most precious. You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose. Here, in this society, the very wind carries freedom. It carries it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom, so that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely. It is for freedom’s sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf, have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you before other judges.

    We Americans are all about freedom. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden; pay any price, to preserve our freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. The day after tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will long endure.

    Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done. The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.

    See that flag, Mr. Reid? That’s the flag of the United States of America . That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. And it always will.

    Mr. Custody Officer. Stand him down.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  589. BEETS!!! Let’s talk beets!

  590. Well. If it’s vegetables and recipes that *really* tick some people off, I’d be glad to share every single one in my cupboard. D’you think the food library of a quasi-vegetarian bibliophile would serve sufficiently as Neanderthal repellent?

  591. Rep Alan Grayson is holding a health care townhall tonight in Tavares FL. You can listen in here:


  592. I think Craig is just a name that Rush uses to deflect some of his hate mail!

    Keith in NM

  593. I’m going to be mean and pass along my personal brain worm of the day. Although it won’t be a brain worm if you’ve never heard it before, since you won’t know the tune.

    “The bankers and the diplomats are going in the army
    Oh, happy day, I’d give my pay to see them on parade
    Their paunches at attention and their striped pants at ease
    They’re getting patriotic and they’re going overseas
    We’ll have to do the best we can and bravely carry on
    So we’ll just keep the laddies here to manage while they’re gone.

    (Chorus) Ohhhh, ohhhh, we hate to see them go, the gentlemen of distinction in the army
    Ohhhh, ohhhh, we hate to see them go, the gentlemen of distinction in the army

    The bankers and the diplomats are going in the army
    It seemed a shame to keep them from the wars they love to plan
    We’re all of us contented that they’ll fight a dandy war
    They won’t need propaganda, they know what they’re fighting for
    They’ll march away with dignity and in the best of form
    And we’ll just keep the laddies here to keep the lassies warm.

    The bankers and the diplomats are going in the army
    We’ll have to make things easy, cause it’s all so new and strange
    We’ll give them silver shovels if they have to dig a hole
    And they can sing in harmony while answering the role
    We’ll let them eat their rations from a hand embroidered box
    And if they die, we’ll bring them home and bury them in Fort Knox.”

    Written by Malvina Reynolds, born 1900. She dealt with her senior life by going back to school and studying music, then started writing songs.

    Her tongue was as sharp as her powers of observation. If she were alive today, she’d have a blog – and people would be claiming she was really a college dropout in his parents’ basement.

  594. I am trying some of the recipes folks. Thanks

    baking cauliflower – I will try it.

  595. maybe if we all share recipes till another word from M&H the um others will have to find amusement elsewhere?

  596. He’s here because he’s the equivalent of a badly behaved child who wants attention. Doesn’t have an original thought in his head or anything of interest to say. Just wants to stir something up. Pretty pathetic when an adult needs that.

    He’s been a complete zero since he started posting and every now and then someone chooses to engage with him, so he keeps trying.

    On a different and far more interesting topic than that fool, has anyone read “Alex and Me?” It’s quite wonderful, as is “The Art of Racing in the Rain.”

  597. Craig, why are you even here? You obviously don’t like what we have to say about politics, you don’t like the recipe exchanges and your clearly misogynistic tendencies are quite annoying.

    It would seem you are doing more to torture yourself than you are us.

    I for one, and I think many of the others on here, are just done with your witless, attempt at provoking a response. That is not meant to be an attack, just an observation. You apparently feel the need, every 30 posts or so to say something to get a response. Do you count how many responses you get out of each comment? Is that how you measure your worth? Well here is one for your tally. Your interjections are neither funny nor interesting.

  598. And just look what I found….In Helen’s own words from last December 22. Check it out at “End of Days”

    “Many of you have written in asking for recipes. The holidays are upon us and many of our traditions are centered around food – be it turkey and stuffing or cookies and hot chocolate. If you ask me it’s really comfort we seek. So Margaret and I have decided to share a favorite recipe from each of us for each of you. Enjoy and Happy Holidays!”

    So maybe a recipe exchange is what we are supposed to be doing until Helen has the time and/or inclination to toss out another gem.

  599. I like the way W. C. Fields put it: “G’way, kid, ya bother me.

  600. Craig, I try to judge my food by the way it tastes, not the way the cook looks. I find that method helpful for selecting presidents and congerspeople and car mechanics and dentists and all sorts of others as well. Sorry if we bore you. How do those youts put it? something like “get a life”

  601. Oh god…I didn’t know ya could drone on for hours on recipes for vegetables.

    Now if it were Giada..
    you would have my attention.

    Thank you PalinShutUp Δ
    I feel fine in my skin.
    I mean his skin.

  602. well craig, if the shoe fits…

  603. I did grow purple carrots one year for the same kids as the purple beans. For some reason, I can’t get carrots to grow well in my garden, too much clay, I think. Also grew little ball carrots.

    Farsight Δ, Your wife makes them the way I do, I cut them smallish and they don’t need to be pre-steamed. Is it Kyle who loves cauliflower?

    And NO, I don’t find them stinky either. I think the stinky occurs when they are overcooked. Roasted, they still have a bit of crunch. I thin almost every vegetable can benefit from roasting.

    And thanks again, Farsight Δ, for the Doo wop horses. I played them for my 5 month old granddaughter yesterday, she thought they were every bit as good as Kyle does, though she hasn’t learned to howl yet.

  604. We want Helen!
    We want Helen!
    We want Helen!
    We want Helen!
    We want Helen!
    and Margaret too… :-)

  605. Have you ever tried purple carrots?

    There are actually a rainbow variety of carrots from white, yellow orange, reddish and purple. Each color has slightly different nutrients. I think the purple are extremely good for anti-oxidents.

    My kids love them. Mostly because the purple ones turn your tongue purple for a time.

  606. Roated cauliflower–and broccoli–are wonderful. I don’t think it stinks.

  607. My wife takes cauliflower, drizzles olive oil over it and sprinkles with kosher salt then bakes in a 400 degree oven until slightly soft (she may steam it a bit first). I don’t see this as stinky and it adds a whole new dimension to cauliflower. I like cauliflower to begin with.

    Our older dog is pretty certain that there is nothing, and I mean no thing – nothing – nada, better than cauliflower. Raw is just fine; he doesn’t care, but he’ll take it any way. It is almost freaky.

  608. The health insurance lobby is winning on health care reform. MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars for our congressmen works. The people lose!


  609. I love most veggies roasted. The way they sweeten up is, well, sweet! Green beans and especially asparagus are great roasted, too. Even tomatoes can be roasted so they carmelize. I don’t often use recipes, but there’s one at recipezaar.com (oh dear, I said zaar, it’s a conspiracy) for Roasted Tomatoes, Red Onion and Garlic that looks good.

    Roasted cauliflower is great, but it sure does stink up a kitchen! Maybe roast them outside on your grill!

  610. Roasted cauliflower…hmm…no, I don’t think so. I might try it if you can promise me it doesn’t smell as bad as all the other ways of cooking cauliflower. If it’s stinky, there’s no way in hell my kids will eat it.

  611. PURPLE! yessss. I grew the purple beans for some kids and for novelty, they’re great but IMO the flavor doesn’t measure up to the green ones.

    Purple kohlrabi, on the other hand, is a delight to behold and it tastes great too. (if you like kohlrabi, that is) It’s also good roasted as Keith NM suggested. I’m trying purple bok choy this year for the first time and I’ve been letting the purple mustard go to seed and come up for many years now even though I eat almost none of it, but love the way it looks in the garden. Another good purple is orach, it also self seeds, comes up very early spring all by itself, and is great in salads. (It’s related to lamb’s quarter, a weed I learned to from my grandmother many, many years ago)

    And I second, (or third or fourth) the idea of roasted turnip or rutabaga, l love both. Have you’all ever tried roasted cauliflower?

  612. Lori – nice to know I’m n ot the only one with a “scroll. baby, scroll” finger!

  613. I would be curious to read M&H’s take on our President being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and the right’s reaction.
    As for turnips in mashed potatoes, I see no reason to ruin perfectly good mashed potatoes w. turnips, LOL! Had them that way at a friend’s house one Thanksgiving and they were awful.
    Parsnips, however are delicious roasted, not sure about rutabaga, don’t recall ever having eaten any, will have to give it a try.

  614. “I am willing to bet it is more than one person using one name.”

    good nite all.

    By: PalinShutUp Δ on October 12, 2009

    Ooohh thats a good one!
    I’m willing to bet the “Troll”
    could be a “schizophrenic”.
    a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation.

    Naw…He’s just out for a pass on weekends only
    and has no internet rights on the unit.

    As an aside…How often does Ms.Helen post a new
    treatise?..or otherwise…How long will this hamsters wheel keep turning?

  615. If you do a Google image search using the keywords “peruvian purple potato,” you’ll see what they look like.

    Purple beans, huh? That’d be a nice addition to next year’s garden. Thanks for the tip, Delurker Girl.

    I loved that video, Greytdog. :)

  616. Tine, I have not seen or tried purple potatoes, but I have grown purple string beans. They are nice to grow because they are easier to spot for picking. Green ones blend in with stems & leaves, but purple ones stand out. When you cook them, they turn green and I don’t taste any difference between purple & green beans.

    I will look for purple potates. Maybe I’ll serve them at my next purple party – dinner party, that is. :)

  617. The Fun Theory

  618. OK, as long as we’re talking about root vegetables…. Has anyone else ever had purple potatoes?

    A couple of weeks ago I got a bag of ‘em from a neighbor, who grew a bumper crop. They’re smallish with gray skins. The insides are brilliant purple. I had never seen anything like it before. They were totally freaky-looking — but tasty! My kiddies gobbled them up just for the sheer novelty.

  619. Stealth Turnips

    …sounds like a CIA mission codename, doesn’t it? :)

  620. pureed turnips can be frozen. use an icecube tray, pour puree into that then freeze. Pureed turnips can then be added to soups, mashed potatoes, used as a thickening agent in some sauces that need a bit of a tang

  621. On Morning Joe this morning, I heard Rush say that the Republicans lost the election because they aren’t conservative enough any more. They need to move far right to win. So is he really saying, and we’re supposed to believe, that Republican voters voted for a “far left” “SOCIALIST DEMOCRAT” because McCain was not far right enough? It defies logic. Could it be that a moderate Republican might have been elected had the far right not messed it up?

    Regarding Craig, I’ve said it to you before, Craig… It’s not your political beliefs that have people here disliking you. It’s your behavior. You provoke people and then whine when called on it. Don’t want to be called a troll? Don’t act like one. Don’t want to be called an ass? Quit being one. Nobody wants to read the crap you spew. Why you come here and spend your time reading what you probably think is crap spewing defies logic. If you must rant, be a doll and keep up the epic length posts. It makes them easier to spot & skip over.

    And finally, whatever anyone thinks about the Nobel Peace Prize and whether or not President Obama deserved it, the truth is that he didn’t win the award based solely on his first 2 weeks in office! He hadn’t done anything yet? He got himself elected because of who he is and what he stands for. Why people arbitrarily decide that since the nominations occurred within a couple of weeks of inauguration that the award is based on just that time window… also defies logic.

    As for turnips – Keith’s recipe is great. Turnip fries are good, too. If no turnip recipe is acceptable, then I’d suggest using them up in very small quantities using whatever stealth you can get away with.

  622. Donna: I do have a different soup recipe that uses fruit (parsnips, pears, and rosemary), but it hadn’t occurred to me to toss an apple in the other soup. Good idea! :)

  623. Tine–ever toss a cooked apple or pear into the soup before pureeing? mmmm

  624. Oops. Looks like I was playing around with the other one and it took instead of the one I wanted. I should get my own here soon.

  625. Did my gravatar take?

  626. Anita certainly gave them whatfor.

  627. Forgot to mention: Simmer them in broth of your choice — chicken, veggie, or whatever. :)

  628. Well, Judith, I’m glad somebody enjoyed the dang turnips. If you have any of the roasted goodies left over, may I suggest tossing them in a soup?

    I make a Winter Vegetable soup over here in which turnips feature prominently. Alongside rutabagas and sweet potatoes, and lots of garlic, onion, and thyme. Just simmer those babies within an inch of their lives and puree. Yummy. Especially warm and yummy when it has the nerve to snow in early October.

    Let’s just say I am not amused!

  629. Thanks to all the knowledgeable people who chimed in on the White House vs Media issue.

    I haven’t made up my mind yet. As a progressive I like the idea of standing up to the bullies, and no longer allowing them to define ME. On the other hand it worries me. As I have said before national elections are won by the middle. And the middle of this country is REALLY tired of the vitriol. I want Obama to be a 2 term president, we need the middle. I would prefer to see the democratic party take up this fight and allow the White House to stay above the fray. However, I admire Antia Dunn, is a really talented strategist, I hope she did her homework on this subject.

    One thing for sure……She has broken new ground… I wish them luck.

  630. This time always reminds me of when my children were little and a Mr. Rodgers’ song called “Let’s Think of Something to do While Are Waiting”. ;-) I loved Mr. Rodgers.

    There are people I enjoy talking to about about politics. I seek them out when I want to understand an issue better in order to form my own opinion,[ like when I asked M&H fans the other day} or if I want to understand “the other side”. The thing is, I have to believe they are knowledgeable about the subject. If they aren’t, why engage them in conversation? To me it would be like talking football with a person who doesn’t understand the game.

    So far, on this blog, I haven’t “heard” any of the so called “trolls” to be knowledgeable of politics or MOST of the issues that are currently facing us in this country . Their opinions on the issues are parroted by Fox talking heads, or the Drudge report. If I wanted to discuss politics with those type of people I’d go to those web sites or listen to their programs.

    I look forward to the day M&H’s porch is visited by a knowledgeable adversary. It would save me the trouble of seeking them out. But until that day, my scroll button gets a good workout. ;-) In fact, my daughter was reading this thread the other day and when she called me later that day she told me she was amused by the arrogant idiot named James. I had to go back and read the post to see what she was referring to. It just re-confirmed my scroll baby scroll policy..;-)

  631. When Helen doesn’t have us chuckling about the foibles of the Republican elite, I really enjoy our food discussions and other miscellaneous bits, but it is insufferably dull to cover old unfounded rumors with teabaggers or birthers, so it was nice our troll inadvertently presented us with substantial subject. I have read, some time ago, that the Obama Administration will send in agriculturists to teach Afghanis how to raise other cash crops, but I am dubious at best how effective this approach, on its own, end the poppy explosion in Afghanistan. If I am uncertain, I can just imagine President Obama, he is far more thorough in his reasoning than I am, therefore I am expecting him to come up with a plan that makes me strike my forehead and say, that makes so much sense, why didn’t I think of that? So many times during his campaign for The Presidency and since he’s taken office he has done just that, naturally I still like to speculate, I still get anxious for him make decisions and get moving, but darn if I don’t have confidence in his leadership.

  632. I am willing to bet it is more than one person using one name.

    good nite all.

  633. Judith,

    “And the troll will revert as soon as he feels secure enough, while claiming that we’re objecting to his opinions rather than his behavior. Possibly he can’t tell the difference.”

    I really haven’t nailed down which it is but there you have it.

  634. Δ¥Tine, you can have the last one. I chopped and roasted some of them tonight with garlic, salt and olive oil (and celery and onions). Served them with meat loaf. I kind of liked them, especially since I do this all the time with peppers and green onions. I won’t be planting them next year, (unlike red chard, which was a revelation this year and will get garden space), but they were ok. Definitely edible, IMO.

    My husband’s opinion was 180 degrees. There will be a mutiny if I ever do this again. Oh, well.

    And the troll will revert as soon as he feels secure enough, while claiming that we’re objecting to his opinions rather than his behavior. Possibly he can’t tell the difference.

  635. Holy crap!


  636. No one’s puppet,

    “By dang. didn’t our troll throw us a bone to chew on?”

    You see, this is the part of the troll that is reasonable, though not necessarily in agreement with the majority, and somewhat disarming. If this were the way it stayed all would be fine. However, I will wait and bide my time and try not to point out the obvious when it happens. Maybe lessons have been learned…

  637. Judith, pay no attention to all those delicious-sounding turnip recipes. I’ll be over to pick them up shortly. ;)

  638. Hi gang,

    The debate (or beat) goes on about how to deal with Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.

    The Khyber Pass between the two countries has been CONTROLLED by outside forces for a time; going all the way back to Alexander the Great and up to the British Empire and Russia. However, NONE have ever been able to subdue the tribal peoples of that rugged area. I don’t know why we think we can. By military force anyway.

    ……..“All this time, Ben-Ladin had been busy, busy, busy building an organization called Al-Qaeda. His number two-in-command henchman was and presumably still is Aymen Al-Zawahiri, (not to be confused with Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, the Iraqi insurgent leader killed in a United States aerial strike in June of 2006.)

    Al-Zawahiri is from a privileged, prominent Egyptian family. By profession, he is a medical doctor and a surgeon. He and some of his cohorts were imprisoned in Egypt for fourteen months and presumably tortured. While in jail, he became the spokesman for the group of his fellow prisoners, although he is reported to shun the spotlight.”

    ……..”Egypt and Saudia Arabia consider them to be common criminals. At the very least, they are an embarrassment to their native countries. They are hardly “Worthy Adversaries in War!”

    These are two quotes, copied and pasted from Chapter 13, “Mohammed”, of my web-site. For those of you who have endless leisure time to spend on the computer, it might be an interesting overview of Islam, Mohammed, Ben Ladin, et al. Heaven know there is PLENTY of OTHER material available! I haven’t edited or updated it very much in the past 3-4 years. However, I did do considerable research from a variety of sources: newspapers, TV news and documentaries as well as historical books.

    Chapter 13 is somewhat longish. You can scroll down about halfway and pick up on the background of Ben Ladin. Right now, I personally would rather be spending time with my friends on M&H than messing with my website.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  639. Belated condolences to you HRH Sophia EQ on the loss of your friend, I know that is one blow, actually two blows, that with stay with you forever.

  640. I often rush and don’t proof read, but it is unforgivable that I misspelled Obama.

  641. I for one am very glad that President Omaba is reviewing the Afghanistan situation, and defining what our mission is in that country. Are we there to fight the Taliban as well as El Qaida? I don’t know enough, at least not yet to hold an opinion. By dang. didn’t our troll throw us a bone to chew on?

    US: Taliban has grown fourfold

    Extra US troops are needed for combat and to train Afghan army units, McChrystal has said [AFP]

    Taliban-led forces fighting US and Nato troops in Afghanistan have increased nearly fourfold since 2006, according to a US intelligence estimate presented to the US president.
    The report says that the number of Taliban fighters has grown to 25,000, from 7,000 four years ago, the officials said on Friday as Barack Obama convened a fifth cabinet-level meeting on his country’s military strategy in Afghanistan.
    The US president is considering whether to agree to a request by the senior commander of US and Nato forces in Afghanistan for up to 40,000 extra troops to be deployed.
    General Stanley McChrystal has warned that the US mission in Afghanistan risks failure unless more troops are sent to combat the Taliban and provide training and support to Afghan government forces.
    Officials said on Friday that Obama – who agreed early in his presidency to send 21,000 extra troops to Afghanistan – has not made any firm decision in regard to McChrystal’s request.

    Support dwindling
    Should Obama decide to send more troops, they would join a US military force that is already scheduled to reach 68,000 personnel by the end of the year. There are also about 39,000 troops serving in Afghanistan under Nato.
    But the US president also has to consider a drop in US public support for the war, amid a dramatic rise in US military casualties this year.
    Only 40 per cent of Americans support the presence of US troops in Afghanistan, a poll released on Wednesday by the Associated Press and GFK said.

    Obama is facing pressure from his own party over the rise in US military casualties [EPA]
    Obama is also facing pressure from within his Democratic Party, with several senior members understood to be in favour of pulling forces out of Afghanistan.
    One of the options being looked at by the White House is to engage with the Taliban, while taking the war to al Qaeda, whose fighters are understood to be based around the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region.
    Peter Baker, a writer with the New York Times, said that Obama had to assess whether sending extra troops would be actually be conducive to improving US security.
    “They are trying to evaluate the threat to the United States and, in this evaluation, al-Qaeda aspires to attack the American homeland, whereas the Taliban has generally not been vocal about attacking the US directly,” he told Al Jazeera.
    “So, to the extent that the Taliban is a threat to American interests, it is a threat in that it might provide safe haven for al-Qaeda.
    “The question [the cabinet-level team] is grappling with is, Does it make sense to send 40,000 more troops and spend a lot more money to fight a radical group that may not even be the main threat to the US?”

    ‘Rough estimate’
    The US intelligence estimate that 25,000 Taliban forces are ranged against the US and Nato presence in Afghanistan includes associates who are less committed to the fight, officials said.
    A US counterterrorism official said the figure was a “rough” estimate because it is difficult to ascertain the size of armed opposition groups that tend to operate in small units.
    “You’re not talking about fixed formations that rely solely on full-time combatants. Numbers ebb and flow. Bands of fighters appear and vanish,” the official said.
    A US defence official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said that while the size of the Taliban force is far smaller than the combined US and Nato presence, the fighting methods they employ help overcome the asymmetry.

    “By the very nature of insurgency, you do not need a lot of insurgents to inflict a lot of damage, because they are able to choose the time and the place to engage,” the official said.
    Source: Al Jazeera and agencies

  642. And then Craig said (and I don’t mean to pick on Craig, it’s just that he says the darndest things)
    “Pat Tillman I believe was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan.”
    And that would be correct. The problem is that the generals first felt they should USE the death of this well know person as propaganda. If you are interested, read an early report of the story at the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/03/AR2005050301502.html

    As a complete aside, I don’t know how old you are so I don’t know if you were around when we began “training” the Vietnamese military of South Vietnam. Maybe you’ve heard how well that one came out. In retrospect, maybe we should have never become involved. I know almost to the minute, when I turned against the Vietnam War. I had met a young man who had been working on the DEW line in Alaska and was therefore exempt from the draft. He had traveled to Boston to see his dying Mother and within a couple of days of arriving, his local draft board caught up with him and signed him up in the Army. I met him in San Francisco as he was being shipped out. We corresponded for a month or so until my last letter was returned to me, rubber stamped with the words “Verified Deceased Return to Sender R.A. KOLIN Capt. AGC Asst Adj Gen” A couple of years ago I read on a veteran website that he had been killed by “friendly fire.” It became really personal for me. In my defense, I was pretty young and he was a really cute guy. I’ve always been sorry he didn’t have a chance to grow up.

  643. The production of medical morphine is not dependant on the crop in Afghanistan.

    Q&A on the News COX NEWS SERVICE
    Question: A recent article about the opium poppy crop in Afghanistan made me wonder about the source of morphine often prescribed to relieve pain. Are opium poppies legally grown for medical purposes in this country? If not, what is the source of opium for medical morphine?

    Answer: No opi…


  644. TOO GOOD. Have to share.

    Published on Sunday, October 11, 2009 by The New York Times
    Two Wrongs Make Another Fiasco

    by Frank Rich

    Those of us who love F. Scott Fitzgerald must acknowledge that he did get one big thing wrong. There are second acts in American lives. (Just ask Marion Barry, or William Shatner.) The real question is whether everyone deserves a second act. Perhaps the most surreal aspect of our great Afghanistan debate is the Beltway credence given to the ravings of the unrepentant blunderers who dug us into this hole in the first place.

    Let’s be clear: Those who demanded that America divert its troops and treasure from Afghanistan to Iraq in 2002 and 2003 – when there was no Qaeda presence in Iraq – bear responsibility for the chaos in Afghanistan that ensued. Now they have the nerve to imperiously and tardily demand that America increase its 68,000-strong presence in Afghanistan to clean up their mess – even though the number of Qaeda insurgents there has dwindled to fewer than 100, according to the president’s national security adviser, Gen. James Jones.

  645. Craig said “As an aside…
    What would anyone think as to spraying the poppy fields in Afghanistan?”

    Whenever I hear someone talking about the “poppy fields in Afghanistan,” I think of the phrase, “ what goes around, comes around “ and remember that it was the British, looking for a new source of INCOME, who encouraged the Chinese to mix OPIUM with tobacco and smoke it. It was a cash crop and they really didn’t care if those dogs, the Chinese, became addicted. It was a business proposition, don’t ya see? (all others except Craig, please excuse my snarkiness)

    And please don’t forget that Morphine is made from opium poppies. It is an extremely effective pain remedy, helpful especially for those dying from cancer and other diseases since dying CAN be painful. I know I was grateful for it the day after my hip replacement. They let me control the amount but they took it away after 24 hrs and I’m not sorry I used it and I’m not sorry they took it away.

  646. poolman I did not see your comment about the poppy fields and agree 100%

  647. well, if it comes to making a choice between killing a plant or killing people…

    hitting them in the pocket is always the best option

  648. The point about spraying the opium fields is well taken, Europe and Asia as well the western hemisphere is awash with addiction. Guess who are acting as the middle men getting the opium out of Afghanistan and who are dispersing it globally. You got it, the Taliban and El Qaida, opium is Bin Laden’s principle source of income since his share of the family business has been frozen, as have radical Muslim charities. Therefore some method or means of stopping Opium production is essential to fighting El Qaida where ever we find them. Again I suggest reading The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century by Steve Coll. .Originally, Osama’s personal fortune was grossly overestimated, and has never corrected in the press; most of El Qaida’s funding was coming from radical Muslim Charities. This book is available in paperback on Amazon, but I am sure your library can procure the book for you. If enough of you read it I am sure we will have an interesting discussion here. It is as interesting a read as a thriller, but with footnotes. I’m waiting to read his previous book, Ghost Wars: The secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001, the book that earned Mr. Coll a Pulitzer Prize.

  649. “What would anyone think as to spraying the poppy fields in Afghanistan?” – Craig

    We do already burn the poppy fields. This is their cash crop. Mostly we are hurting local farmers and communities when we do this. There IS a demand for the drug. If the demand went away, the drug would fade. But I don’t see the demand going away. I also don’t think this is how we should be conducting ourselves in other countries, although we have been for decades.

    The US both funds and fights drugs. We work on both sides of the drug situation. This is another big area of corruption in our government. On the surface we are against all illegal drugs. Behind the scenes, we benefit greatly from the drug trade. We have no real interest in eliminating these drugs. There are big bucks involved and a huge drug enforcement bureaucracy that has no desire to shrink in size or budget. So we keep this “war” going.

    Since most of these “illegal” drugs are natural and God-ordained products, I feel they do serve a purpose. Many of the cultures that use and produce these drugs have done so long before America was a nation. Many of these cultures include these drugs as part of their life and religion. It would be similar to them making hamburgers illegal and coming into our country to destroy all our hamburger stands.

    If abuse is the problem, and we say that is why we “protect” our people from these things by making them illegal, then making criminals of the users is counter-productive and takes our focus and resources away from the real threats to our society. We would be better off educating the people and promoting alternative lifestyles. But that is another discussion for another day.

  650. “Can Barney be dancing on both sides of the aisle?” – Craig

    I think what BF is saying is that the marches do not do much to change laws. He is sympathetic to the cause, but feels there are better ways to effect change. He is saying the more productive avenue would be to lobby the lawmakers. BF is openly gay and not ashamed of it. He does not force his beliefs on anyone, but also takes no crap from anyone.

  651. Barney Frank is half right – marches, per se, don’t affect policy – but they do enable networking and provide a unified voice that leads to the ability to affect policy.

  652. “Now I would really like to know where and when Bin’s training was done. Thats a new one to me.”

    Craig, there is a lot of info regarding the US and bin Laden’s relationship. Search with google for yourself and pick the source. Here is one that outlines much of our involvement with the taliban and bin Laden in the past:


  653. its official, craig has tourettes

  654. who gives a flying rats ass who BF sleeps with?

    is it time to return you to ignore mode?

    my switch is wearing out

  655. “Rep. Barney Frank, an openly gay member of Congress, said the marchers should be lobbying their lawmakers. He said the demonstrations are simply “an emotional release” that do little to pressure Congress.”
    “The only thing they’re going to be putting pressure on is the grass,” the Massachusetts Democrat said Friday.

    From Yahoo…
    Can Barney be dancing on both sides of the aisle?

  656. FYI the unofficial estimates for the National Equality March in Washington DC stands at about 100k and that’s WITHOUT the backing of any major media outlet.

  657. about my statement ‘put man power in preventing product from entering country’

    not that I believe that would solve the drug problem completely because I dont believe anything really will and I have a big problem with the drug laws in this country, too many people locked up for stupid marijuana BUT I do believe in the creation of jobs.

  658. ‘As an aside…
    What would anyone think as to spraying the poppy fields in Afghanistan?’


    we dont have the right to meddle

    put the manpower where it counts in preventing the product from entering our country


    end of story

  659. If anyone is so interested…I would recommend this site for an up to date pictorial review of the war in Afghanistan. Its updated every three to four days.
    Some images may be graphic and others reflective.


  660. Pat Tillman I believe was was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan.

    “The US trained Bin Laden.”

    Now I would really like to know where and when Bin’s training was done. Thats a new one to me.

    Of course with respect. Elvis is still alive.

    As an aside…
    What would anyone think as to spraying the poppy fields in Afghanistan?

  661. I love, love, love this site! Helen you just tell it like it is. Straight talk and no BS. Did I mention I love Margaret and Helen? I will gladly catch up on your other posts and will happily anticipate your next one. OMG You are simply the Best!!

  662. Craig, you’re right, it does go both ways. But we don’t need to allow it and let it flourish.

    Ever since the beginning of our constitutionally-founded roots, we have had differing opinions because we knew we could. How those opinions get expressed is a topic that drives the discourse even further. Political cartoons and articles in print have ridiculed presidents for decades.

    The right to a particular form of speech does not come without a sense of responsibility. Do we wish to have a country that embraces inhumanity or humanity? After all, you and I both breathe the results of our founding fathers (and mothers, my students pointed out last week).

    If the Constitution is truly meant to live up to its Preamble, then the ability for this country to continue discussing what a more perfect union should be is front and center. I know one thing. The equality of its’ citizens is expanding as it should. We now know why the writers of the Constitution created this country as a way to have humanity figure out how to govern ourselves.

    I can’t stop someone from poking fun of Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, Ford….and on and on. But–
    I can make a plea in this discourse to respect the office. Someone decided to take the bull by the horns and put themselves in front. We’ve had 44 presidents and each one saw that leading a nation with this many opinions will not be an easy ride.

    My last thought is something I tell my students many times……

    “Do we want to see more hurt in the world or less hurt?”

  663. in fact Craig, I would call the IRA & the Orangemen terrorists

  664. In re to Northern Ireland – oh yes, I would definitely call the IRA fanatics as well as the Orangemen.

  665. You need to read, “WHERE MEN EARN GLORY – The story of Pat Tillman”

    Iraq was a war which lies got us into! (I still respected the office even when liars found war after war to sink our economy!)

    The US trained Bin Laden.

  666. “Perhaps we should think about changing the word “Terrorist” to “Criminals”. Civilized countries, including Muslim countries, track down criminals with law enforcement. You know, such as the FBI, Interpol and other international agencies – not bombs and M-16s.”

    First of all I think we have sold F-16′s to India and Pakistan. I know we have also sold helicopters
    and other arms to other muslim countries as well.

    I think a drone attack or guided bomb down your dirt chimney will get ya 30 or so virgins and possibly get your attention so that maybe you should consider another business than terrorism.

    Political fanatics? Thats anybody with a religion and a gun. I guess that makes Catholics and or Protestants in Ireland Fanatics.

    I guess we can put Canada and England in there as well with the US. So far I do not think Canada has suffered a major blow. But ask the tourists on the london busses how they feel about retribution.

    I guess we should just suck it up like Spain did after the bombings in Madrid. They quickly pulled their troops out of Iraq.

    What about Indonesia and Pakistan where continued bombings of civilian populations continue. Seems their respective muslim investigators cannot keep up.

    And how many times should we turn the other cheek. Kandahar towers, Marine barracks in lebanon, Bombings of embassies in Africa, 1st attempt of bombing the Trade Center, U.S.S. Cole and 911 to name a few.

    And apparently they are still wanting more American deaths..and possibly yours if the FBI
    cannot keep up with their monthly discoveries of bomb plots.

    I’ve Been to Singapore..Now that is one paranoid and clean country. Of course they cane you there for chewing gum..naw.. just spray painting cars.

    My son, Poolman made two tours to The Gulf.
    He got out of the Navy as a Lt. in June, and signed up for Reserves.
    He graduated from a State university with a large cadre of military ROTC graduates.

    He has lost one friend due to a bomb hidden under the mans clothing. The 2ndLt. or kid just happened to be at wrong place and wrong time.
    He had been in country 5 weeks in 2006.

    Another Marine buddy escaped with just minor eye injuries from a roadside bomb.He had been in country 5 weeks in 2006.
    He has at least 6 other close immediate college friends in the Marines and Navy.

    “Our original goal was to go after Bin Laden and Al Quaeda, before we were side-tracked by the crusaders in the last administration.”
    I agree..we did not keep our eye on the ball.

    “You called him the Supreme leader and President of the United States. But your sarcasm was dripping from the sentence–as if you don’t believe he is our duly elected President. You may disagree with political views, but at least respect the office.”
    I have seen Bush and Cheney written with much more disdain and sarcasm than what I said.
    Again ..Respect the office…goes both ways.

  667. In case you missed it:
    Obama’s HRC Speech (VIDEO):
    President Obama Says He Will End ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”


  668. … and the same process is great for potatoes… sweet potatoes (use canola oil), all squashes…. and most any root vegetable…

    Keith in NM

  669. Judith…. turnips are great….. healthy and very easy to prepare:

    Pre-heat oven to 375 degrees.

    Wash and peel turnips… use a carrot peeler…. then dice into half-inch cubes and place in a gallon-sized zip-lock…. adding carrots is great…. add enough olive or canola oil to coat…. season with salt, pepper, garlic… rosemary and thyme are nice additions…. seal bag and toss to coat…. place in sprayed baking dish… I prefer glass…. and bake (roast) until they begin to brown (carmelize)…. time varies according to the amount in the pan.

    Keith in NM

  670. Turnips are great with potatoes, onions and carrots in a cornish pasty. Delish.

  671. One hard and fast rule when we were children was that we were to at least try the cuisine of wherever we happened to be. . . we weren’t required to be members of the clean plate club, but we were required to be charter members of the polite table manners club. Needless to say, given the amount of travel our family did, my siblings and I tasted some rather interesting foods. My parents themselves set the example, gamely tasting chicken heads in China, river eel in burma, etc. . .always polite always with graciousness and a genuine interest in the people & the culture. So on a trip to Nepal where my parents was helping set up a school, the students; families had set up a communal dining hall to feed the folks building the school & training the teachers. As we walked into the dining hall, my mother stopped, took one whiff and with shoulder visibly sagging, let go of a deep shuddering sigh. My dad was immediately alarmed thinking maybe the high altitude was causing some illness…She assured him she was fine and sighed again. She then leaned into my dad and whispered ” rutabagas, damn rutabagas”.
    We all started laughing – my mother, a Depression era kid had survived on a diet of rutabagas and hated them. She had vowed to never eat rutabagas again – and until 1968, in a small Himalyan village, she had kept that vow.

  672. Judith,
    I salute you; your preparation for your family’s changed circumstances reminded me of a story told to me by a college friend. Her grandfather bought several rabbits with his last paycheck during the Great Depression, he fed them grass and vegetable scraps, in no time he had protein for his family and he also sold the meat and hides. Right about now, you might be thinking, turnips would be good rabbit food; but I concur with Jean, they are quite good raw, cut them into matchsticks and serve them with a little salt or perhaps a dip. Possibly mash some with potatoes; I make a simple version of garlic mashed potatoes, I boil one peeled garlic clove to every potato in the same pot, drain and whip with fat-free cream cheese, add milk as needed for the right consistency, and season with sea salt and fresh ground pepper. The amount of potatoes you replace with turnips is up to you, but personally I wouldn’t use more than half, I think I would cook the turnips in a separate pot from the potatoes, since I am not fond of the flavor of cooked turnips.

  673. Craig,
    You can also drop the sarcastic reference to the President.
    You called him the Supreme leader and President of the United States. But your sarcasm was dripping from the sentence–as if you don’t believe he is our duly elected President. You may disagree with political views, but at least respect the office.

  674. warning rant ahead

    Long long ago I learned no one’s religion or culture is better and that we earn more allies by not by blowing people up.

    Our poor and homeless are suffering, the middle class in this country is disappearing, too many of them now qualify for food stamps, I drive by our shelters and food banks and see the lines growing longer every year…and its not your average homeless man…it is people with jobs and without homes, people living in their cars.

    Dont believe me? this past summer I did a little experiment, I joined a few travel trailer forums, you would be amazed at the amount of homelessness in THIS country.

    So, I am for fixing us first and gaining friends in the world. We will only do that by setting an example. Im going to be patient and have faith in this president that he will do what is right, he’s got a hell of a lot to carry on his shoulders.

    I feel like 90% of the criticism I hear/read against Obama are people talking out of their ass with almost zero personal experience dealing with international politics.

    And I may sound heartless when I write this but in my honest opinion, if a grown adult woman in another culture is beaten and she and other adult women allow it, that’s their business and not ours to intervene.

  675. Hi gang and Craig,

    When was the last time you personally visited a PREDOMINATELY Muslim country, Craig? In the past fifteen years we have been to five. Two in Southeast Asia, two in North Africa and then Turkey. (Geographically, Turkey is 5% in Europe and 95% in Asia, or as some would say, more correctly, the Middle East.)

    The United States is a PREDOMINATELY Christian country. How many in our population are politically religious fanatics?

    Perhaps we should think about changing the word “Terrorist” to “Criminals”. Civilized countries, including Muslim countries, track down criminals with law enforcement. You know, such as the FBI, Interpol and other international agencies – not bombs and M-16s.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

    P.S. I like your “Wedge” by your name. That indicates you want to understand and belong.

  676. Craig, here is an Afghanistan update, Jon Stewart style. Everyone has a different opinion of what it is we should do there. General Stanley McChrystal is who Obama has put in charge right now. I know you said you had a son in the military, but I don’t recall whether you said he was there or not.


    If you listen to Alan Grayson, we should just get out of there and leave them alone. We have been messing in that zone for decades now as it is. Our original goal was to go after Bin Laden and Al Quaeda, before we were side-tracked by the crusaders in the last administration.

  677. Hi gang and Judith,

    Judith, glad to hear you are hanging in there during tough times. That’s the spirit!

    My mother used to slice raw turnips just like carrots or celery. Nice and cold they are pretty good and nutritious. Sort of tangy.

    Regarding the troll discussion. I think we democrats, progressives or whatever we want to call ourselves were way to polite and civil for too long. Some might interpret that as “wimpy”. But look what that got us, and the world for that matter.

    War, economic chaos, inequality in one of the most basic of human rights – care for our health; injustice for citizens of a different racial, gender or sexual orientation. The laundry list goes on and on.

    Well, whether the “trolls” like it or not, we will no longer always stand still being polite, civil or “wimpy”.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  678. Raji ……
    Never have read the Huffington Post and do not have what 8 ideas or quotes the Huffington has proposed.

    “As an aside, I’ll bet that when Craig isn’t able to hide behind the anonymity of the internet and is one on one in person, for the most part, he is a decent person.”

    Just because I disagree with you does not mean that I would not save you from drowning or a fire.
    And that goes for the color of your skin, religion or heritage. Thats the way I was brought up.

    But because I disagree with you politically gives you a reason to hate me, yet not know me.

    I don’t wear a robe and hood.

    I love my country and would not want to see our President harmed.

    The fact that I do not like his politics and question his motives should not have me wear a scarlet letter.

    As you have read and watched the various media over the weekend..I’m just one of a few who question the motive for the award of the Nobel Prize.

    If it helps to make peace then fine.

    But I do not think the people who killed 3000
    Americans and want the Great American Satan
    to be destroyed would recognize a Noble Peace Prize as a reason to stop killing.

    The same people who whip women in their country for not wearing the appropriate clothing.

    The same people who kill their own innocent people including children who only want to learn.

    My only wish at this time is that President Obama would listen to his commander on the ground.

    That he would send the troops to train the military of Afghanistan. That he would send the troops that would help to protect and reinforce the men and women who are there fighting for their lives
    while the President thinks.

    I would hope he would go into the Lincoln bedroom and pray for the courage to do the right thing as Lincoln did during the Civil War.

    I’m not a rabbid right wing nut.
    I’m an American with a different point of view from yours.

    I may live next door to you..but I doubt it as I know most of my neighbors. They are the same ones who put out their American flags on appropriate dates.

    I do not come here to incite..and I’m sure that will promote a heckle…but since this is a public thread..I have stated before..that I have as much right to state my thoughts and beliefs as yours.

  679. Donna,

    Ok, so he would be on better behavior and more guarded in what he said, but that doesn’t necessarily make him more decent. I think that is your point, and I think I have to agree with you. Thanks.

  680. IMO, the way people act when there will be no consequences is their true nature. The public facade is, well, just that.

    The young ones at my work insist on discussing their dating lives. I’ve advised a couple of them to watch for this, as it’s a clear indicator of how they’ll be treated once the guy is no longer on his best behavior. Especially to be discarded is the road rage type, aggressive when safe inside his steel shell. Another real gem is the kind who like to scare their date by driving dangerously – you really want a guy who’s happy when you’re screaming, don’t you?

    I’d say trolls are also to be avoided. Imagine how he behaves at home when he’s frustrated or upset. I’m sure he treats those around him with the utmost respect and consideration. Not.

  681. I certainly hope Margaret and Helen find all this off thread posting acceptable if not entertaining.

    Now for you viewing pleasure:



  682. farsight–think I disagree with you. I don’t think decent people act that way, regardless of anonymity. Do you go to opposing sites and act like a turd? Of course not.

    If, in fact, he acts differently when he’s “known,” that simply means he’s showing his true self.

  683. Judith–they are delicious. You can roast them in a little olive oil, salt and pepper. Or you can slice them very thinly and do them like potatoes Anna.

  684. kitkatΔ,

    There you said it more succinctly than I did. Thank you. You said,”I have enough stress and negative energy”. There it is negative energy; 2 words that really say it all!!! There are energy givers and energy takers (I suppose that there are those that are relatively neutral). Guess which one a troll is.

    I hung around on Ann Coulter chat for a while. I was mostly a lurker without a lot of posts. NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART (or probably for someone without a masochistic streak, or a half a brain for that matter). The difference is amazing in how they dealt with people of differing opinions vice how the folk here deal with them. Even the people who were looking for a legitimate debate (not truly trolls) were absolutely smacked down, ridiculed and called the most disgusting of names. It was true shock and awe. The people here try to reason and politely convince until it is apparent someone is truly a troll and even then a lot of times we persevere.


    You should scroll back and see the post James made in this thread. Not a very reasonable response. I think he had on his asshat.

    Yeah, sometimes I lurk and don’t have a lot to contribute. Other times I spew. Currently I am in spewing mode.

    You asked, “Do trolls do what they do …”. I think it is a some of both and depending on the individual generally more of the vitriolic. If they really wanted to change minds they would go about it differently. For instance, my father-in-law would think he is doing the right thing by rubbing his dog’s nose in his own siht to keep him from doing it again (this, by the way, is not an acceptable training method by any reputable dog trainer). I don’t think most trolls give any thought on how to best present a position in order to gently persuade and bring someone to their point of view. All this being said, I would certainly like to have a chance to rub Rush’s nose in a big pile of dog doo but not because I thought he would learn anything from it; it is the amount of pleasure I would get from doing it. On the plus side I think it would give me alot of energy and an overabundance of energy to him.

    Grandma Katie,

    You have absolutely no reason to apologize to us. Craig’s little guilt trip deserves absolutely no credence whatsoever.

    As an aside, I’ll bet that when Craig isn’t able to hide behind the anonymity of the internet and is one on one in person, for the most part, he is a decent person.

  685. Off topic, scroll on if you wanna……

    We got lucky, my husband was only unemployed for 6 months. His first paycheck, still to come, is only for 2 1/2 days, so we’re on layoff mode till the end of the month and it will be months before we’re out of the woods, but we’re keeping the house.

    1st thing we did to survive was to use a credit card to sign up for a CSA – a box of organic vegies, pre-paid, once a week. Already had a small veg garden ourselves & expanded it somewhat.

    Weekends are for putting up anything we didn’t eat and the freezer & cupboards are full. This week, between the box and the garden, I had 6 pounds of green tomatoes to deal with. We’ve got pickles and relish galore already. I found an old recipe for green tomato mincemeat and it’s just about ready to go in the jars for processing. The house smells like Christmas & there’s going to be plenty of pie for all. Pumpkin (home-frozen) for mincemeat non-fans.

    The problem is, the CSA box gave us turnips this week. Turnips. I’ve never cooked a turnip and the only time I ate one was not a success. It keeps reminding me of the scene in Gone With The Wind, where Scarlett takes a big chomp and declares “As God is my witness, I will never be hungry again.” Not a ringing endorsement.

    It’s food. It’s paid for. We’re eating it.

    But how?

  686. Do trolls do what they do , that is to say, throw out vitriolic (you really are right, Kate), incendiary, and, let’s face it, inaccurate comments … for what purpose? Just to stir the pot? Just to get a rise out of people? Or are they on some (ill conceived) campaign to show everyone on such blogs how wrong they are? that we are going read their outrageous drivel and then smack our palms on our collective foreheads and say “my God, he’s right! Being open minded and inclusive is so wrong. Racism, sexism, pandering to the corporation, xenophobia — THAT’s the way to go….” (because, you know, it’s worked so well so far). Trolls don’t take into consideration that liberal thinkers are more likely to consider both sides of an arguement than are conservatives (they just are) and therefore not likely to let other people tell them how to think, i.e. drink limb-o injected kool-aid.

    That must frustrate the Cr*p out of trolls.

  687. Helen. Nice to see your succinct comments and this blog get a little boost in PR (not that you needed it) from Bill in Portland ME on the Daily Kos. Cheers to you and Margaret. Love from Alaska. Yes, health care is about all the real people with real needs.


  688. Perhaps vitriolic was a bit too much, but my t.emper was at the boiling point. I aplogize to all of you (except the troll) and true to my word and scrolled on by.
    And as for Miss Americal, I wll watch something ellse so as not to see Limbaugh’s face. What in the world were they t hinking? Probably all his fans, Yuk
    Thanks to the Nobel Prize Committee for understanding what Obama is all about.
    Congratulations Mr. President.

  689. I recommend the book, The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century by Steve Coll, for anyone who wants to understand the complexities of Osama Bin Laden.

  690. The Taliban have always been funded by the Saudis. Al Quaeda was initially funded by bin Laden’s Personal fortunes.

  691. Craig, I would like to politely disagree with you but you didn’t give me your opinion so there is nothing to discuss.
    I could have just as easily given the 8 outrageous quotes from Huffington Post now being polled as the information you quoted.

  692. Greytdog, was their funding from the Saudi government or from Bin Laden’s fortune? He left Saudi because of his supposedly upset with the Saudi’s allowing infidels on his soil during the Gulf War. Not too sure of my history on this.

  693. Farsight, that wasn’t a smiley that was Laughing out Loud!!!! The Miss America committee actually said it was because Rush has 2 million followers.

    Farsight, I “get” what you are trying to express. I view that as constructive criticism versus negative criticism. My Mother taught us that if you don’t have something nice to say don’t say anything but that theory went out with the Golden Rule. The trend that has developed with the internet is quite frankly rudeness and that trend is overlaping into our daily lives.

    I feel someone like Craig enjoys stirring the pot. I’ve said in previous posts that he is having way too much fun. Someone like this really doesn’t state their views just throws out controversy to see what reaction results.

    As to the Nobel Peace Prize, I bet 95% of the population has no idea of the criteria behind the decision of the committee much less who is awarded this prize year to year. I certainly didn’t! However, even though I was surprised at the news as President Obama has not accomplished enough in my mind to be a candidate, it did make me research the criteria which I had never done before. With that in mind, I feel the NNP Committee was making a statement “Welcome Aboard POTUS” and we give you this prize in the hopes you will continue to promote global peace.

    If that was their point then I agree with their decision. If nothing else, I learned something in the last two days.

    With regards to the white house and the media, I often follow the press briefings with Gibbs. Many of the “good ole boys” from the Clinton and Bush era have been removed but not all. There are fresh faces such as ones from HuffPo that would have never been included. I think they have been cleaning house long before they made the statement regarding Fox news. Sometimes turning the other cheek just doesn’t work anymore.

  694. ‘….I for one don’t understand the desire to go where I wouldn’t be comfortable or wanted. Not because I can’t take the heat or am afraid I’d change my beliefs, but because I have enough stress and negative energy in my life, that I don’t want to invite it in….’

    kitkat, that’s exactly the way that I feel

    another appropriate quote from Mad Men fitting to the uninvited

    ‘Stop barging in here and infecting me with your anxiety!’

  695. farsight, what I’m reading into what you’re saying is that there is an enjoyment and even contentment of coming together and discussing things with like-minded people. That it helps clarify and understand where we are and where we want to go. I for one don’t understand the desire to go where I wouldn’t be comfortable or wanted. Not because I can’t take the heat or am afraid I’d change my beliefs, but because I have enough stress and negative energy in my life, that I don’t want to invite it in. Just as I have decided to not engage those family members who I know do not think as I do. Life is too short to sit and argue with a family member who thinks I am evil for being a democrat.

    Funny enough, I’m agnostic but was raised Methodist too.

  696. Bin Laden was with the Taliban in Afghanistan. We armed and trained them. . . I suspect that despite the movie Charlie Wilson’s War, our “advisors” believed that theTaliban were merely primitive fighters. . . they failed to take into account their funding from the Saudi government and their adherence to an uber conservative/fundamentalist interpretation of Islam.

  697. farsight, yes, you’re right. better to just not engage unless productive thought and comments are put forth. But “Snide” just makes me want to smack someone upside the head. At least James used to post with some sensiblity, misguided tho he may have been.

    FYI – I’ve been a regular vistor and a sometime poster for some time, but you all say everything so well, i just sit here and nod my head.

    I’m eagerly awaiting our girls’ next installment.

  698. Sorry folks.

    Sometimes I get going and…

    Think I’ll go swim a mile.

  699. Raji,

    I read about Limbaugh this morning. 10 years ago they never would have dreamed of doing this. You put a smiley at the end of your post, but I think you hit the nail on the head. Viewership has definitely diminished, but what is really surprising is that this is what they decided on in their desperation.

  700. Just a thought here:

    I am agnostic. I’m sure some would say pagan. However, when I was young I went to the First Methodist church and was indoctrinated into their ways and beliefs. Which, to my way of thinking, was not so bad.

    I don’t remember the main reason for going to church being a desire to become embroiled in debate or controversy. Seems like the main reason for attending was to bask in or re-affirm one’s faith. I certainly don’t begrudge them this, and I certainly am not going to go to their church and rain on their parade.

    If I were to try and debate my differences, you can bet that I would be hypersensitive to the thoughts and feelings of the opposing faction. I would go overboard to not offend when not on ‘home turf’.

    I’ve got more to say along this line but it’s not totally formulated. It’s like you want to refine your thoughts/beliefs by coming together with others, and you’re firm enough in your beliefs that you’re not looking for a reversal. You’ve got a foundation of belief that is not looking for or going to be change(d). You are in search of more information to build upon your foundation.

    I see this as flying in the face of the typical troll premise that a gathering of like minded folks just want to “preach to the choir”.


    Maybe you have an acquaintance who comes by and ridicules your choice of building materials making snide asides or even espouses that you should rip out the foundation and start over. All you want to do is pick out the carpet and drapes, paint your front porch and invite your friends over to partake in your new porch band.

    As you can see, I am struggling with analogies and getting my thoughts out, but hopefully my point has been made.

  701. Greytdog, correct me if I am wrong. Didn’t the turn around with the Taliban come after Bin Laden’s arrival? Without him they would probably still be pawns.

  702. News Flash
    Limbaugh will be one of seven judges for the 2010 Miss America contest.

    Hmm, they must be desperate :lol:

  703. Secret Talker, when the US chose to arm the Afghanis and consequently the Taliban, it wasn’t because we felt their cause was just or right. It was because we wanted the USSR defeated. We thought the Taliban were mere pawns in a game of our choosing. . .and now it turns out they are more dangerous to our wellbeing than the USSR. That’s what I was referring to . . .

  704. helenandmargaretFan,

    It has pretty much been established that a certain someone doesn’t want to engage in legitimate debate but would rather stir up controversy and cause disruption. There was one short period of posts that lasted for a 1-3 days when, it appears that, a false sense of trust was being established. Most here were lulled into this false sense of trust and were soon disheartened. My best recommendation is to not engage.

    Oops, you may already know the history, but I didn’t find any posts submitted earlier in your name.

    Just for the record, I totally agree with you! (:->

  705. Is it not fascinating that 98% of those campaigning against healthcare reform and specifically universal coverage would label themselves “Compassionate Christians”? All that “I’m my brother’s keeper” and “Do unto others….” is just more rhetoric.

    Talk about oxymoronic terms, Christian Right!

    Keith in NM

  706. no one’s puppet,

    Not so much “A” zero as the quantity of response that is warranted.


    Sorry about your senator. To borrow a term, Senator Kyl is an asshat; I certainly don’t hold you responsible. My state is relatively well off with Cantwell and Murray. I have small gripes occasionally, but at least I’m not diametrically opposed.

    Don’t you find it interesting that someone can have so little self awareness that they don’t understand why someone might take umbrage. It is almost like a child that is misbehaving and is oblivious to the fact that the behavior is socially unacceptable. Then again if he/she understands the ramifications of the behavior, what does that say about them.

    I hope it’s not catching, and if it is that there is a vaccine for it, and if there is a vaccine that my health insurance covers it and if not that there is access to death panels. If there were access to DPs, I would probably realize that all is not lost and seek help.

  707. Craig, re: grandma katie, perhaps vitriolic wasn’t the right word. But even you have to admit, your comments were snide and petulant. Obama didn’t campaign for the Nobel Prize, for cryin’ out loud. Why does the right BLAME him? Even Pat Buchannan said as much.

    I was curious how Fox Noise was going to spin this and they did not disappoint…or surprise.

    And, as an asside, Craig, I think it’s okay for the right to finally admit the Rush Limb-o has gone as far off the rails as he possibly can and openly concede they are embarrassed by him.

  708. Rep Grayson is the example of where our leaders need to be!

    PalinShutUp: “…GOP hates everything except gay bathroom sex.” SSSSShhhhhhhhh

    Secret pleasures are not to be revealed also the millions gotten from big business is supposed to be hush hush too.

  709. pssst!

    It appears the GOP hates everything except gay bathroom sex

  710. I fixed the video thingy :)

  711. BEAUTIFUL! – This one made my day.

    We can make noise too :)

    Operation Hey Mackey! – Whole Foods, Oakland

    John Mackey, the CEO of Whole Foods has argued that American workers do not deserve a health care system. We believe that heath care should be affordable for everyone, not just rich people. So Mr. Mackey, this video is for you!

    Operation Hey Mackey! – Whole Foods, Oakland from Jamie LeJeune on Vimeo.

  712. You really have to understand what President Obama stands for in the first place, to understand why he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. The right does not understand why he stands for health care for all, why he’d rather discuss with Iran rather than bomb first and then ask questions second. The reaction of the right does not surprise me in the least. However, the rest of the world took notice that inspiring instead of defeating spirits is a worthwhile cause. Bravo to the Committee for recognizing this.

    Like my husband just told me, he was supposed to have fixed all problems facing this country, resolved all conflcts the day after his inauguration. Therefore, how could he, ten months into his presidency, justify that we still have unresolved issues? Shame on him for accepting the prize! LOL. Congratulations Mr. President!

  713. I saw Rep. Grayson’s speech on Keith Olberman’s show last night. I was alone and I applauded. I am so impressed with him. Wouldn’t it be encouraging if more of our congressmen would follow his example and work for the benefit of the American people they are sworn to serve. What a great country this would be. Hooray for Representative Grayson.

  714. I’d just as soon open a joint bank account with Jon Gosselin as debate a troll or what farsight has termed a ZERO.

  715. Greytdog–beautifully put.

    I think that this simply emphasizes how badly the world viewed Bush and, by extension, this country. To me, the award was as much for America as for the individual recipient: congratulating us for selecting an intelligent, articulate president who focuses on diplomacy and attempts to understand other people and cultures. Thankfully, this is now not a country in which a Cheney would say “So?” when confronted with the disagreement of its citizens with his administration’s foreign policies.

  716. Auntie Jean

    I hate to bring this up but from our prospective, everyone less than 80 looks like a 13-14 year-old. And 13-14 year-olds look like babies. Right now our circle of friends includes only one “old” person. She’s 96.

  717. What I’m surprised at is that everyone on this thread takes posts so personally..its amazing as if I were pointedly calling you all names.

    From GrandMa Katie….
    ‘I am not surprised at your vitriolic spewing of h ate against our President.
    Face it -your side lost.”

    What words in my last two posts were vitriolic or hateful GRANDMA KATIE?

    Then again we did win one….you all have Pelosi and Reed to deal with.
    So I think thats a win for us.

    Its amazing all any of you want to hear is your own voices in harmony.

    Do you not read and watch tv other than FOX, to see how Americans and people worldwide are amazed at Obama receiving the award for What?

    I guess your blinders work all too well.

    At least Fox congratulated the President and said anytime such an award goes to an American its a good thing. What fault can you find with that?

    Hi Jesri!..I appreciate your humor.

    and …to farsight Δ..”Hey, these bastards just never seem to shake our low expectations.”
    Now why do we have to use filthy language in our posts?

    At least I knew my father.

    Poolman your such a history buff.
    Yep when they awarded the Nobel to Arafat..that was kinda strange.

    Who knows maybe next year
    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for Nobel…

    Big Day for football guys and ladies.
    See ya…….

  718. Shorter Alan Grayson (D-FL)


  719. Rep. Grayson must not have got the memo about losing touch with the people. All I can say is — keep it up. He’s definitely saying what needs to be said.



  720. Happy Saturday everyone!

    Lori, I think it is a good thing that they are dispelling the garbage Fox puts out. Unfortunately, those who dislike and distrust the president see this as more of a reason to think the way they do. My mom doesn’t trust anything from Whitehouse.gov. I cannot get her to go there for information.

    Greytdog, I love the going Rouge coloring book. I hope it becomes a best seller too! :grin:

    Craig, get over it. Obama did not “try out” for the Nobel Peace Prize, and the dems didn’t award him with it. It has been given out questionably before. Check your history and ask yourself why you think it a bad thing.


    farsight Δ, Sorry about our asshat senator Kyl. I hope we can get him out. He doesn’t respond to my letters. He is out of touch and full of himself.

    I am about to embark on my Sat morning bike ride with my wife. We are getting a late start, but it is so wonderfully cool out today. I hope you all have a good weekend.

  721. In the 60′s we lived in the suburbs oof DC. WAy back then I formed the opinion that those elected to Congress lose touch with the rest of the country once th ey are installed inside the Beltway. Therefore I arrived at the opiniion t hat the area could be sawed off, floated out to some remote area of the ocean and forgotten. No one would miss them.

  722. Some levity to brighten your day (and to chase the shadows of the nattering nabob Craig away)

    Going Rouge http://bit.ly/eR0M5

  723. I still believe that Zero is an acceptable response to one who has so exceedingly earned it.

    Hey, these bastards just never seem to shake our low expectations. If it weren’t so sad and sick I’d say it is a relief, because if they ever did what was right, I’m afraid I’d go into cardiac arrest:


    I’d tell them what to do, but I’m pretty sure they’d miss the donut.

  724. Craig – I am not surprised at your vitriolic spewing of h ate against our President.
    Face it -your side lost.
    Start ing with REagin,Both Bushes, our country has been in the pits of world opinion. The previoius 8 years were the absolute bottom of the pits.
    And where is Georgie and his comments?
    The next time I see your name on a post, I shall give it the troll treatmennnt and scroll on by!

  725. Craig:

    Until you can come up with some worthwhile comments – take a hike!

  726. Obama Inauguration: 20 Jan 2009.

    Closing date for nominations for the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize: 1 Feb 2009.

    Its remarkable that the world and national news sources are stating the obvious.

    That what has Obama done to justify the Nobel award.

    I’m sure many of you had to watch the many national news sources..not even counting Fox , which were all stunned that he would win such a prize.

    Even the man on the street was confused by this one.

    I guess St. Peters is next. If the Chicagp mob can win the Nobel they can get their man into anywhere.

  727. lori

    I love the principle (and challenge) of “waging a war of ideas against Fox”” and their smear tactics as one White house spokesperson (I don’t know if it was Anita Dunn) described the WH new stance against Fox. If the WH tack comes from a place of anger or pettyness, the lower energetics that Fox perpetuates in the world, it will backfire. But if instead the WH stays with the spirit and heart of its message, without rancor or malice, I believe more people will look up from their helplessness and rage and turn away for the brittle, unthinking hate Fox promotes. The smallest candle (of hopes, truths, inspirations) glows in the darkest of pits.

  728. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.
    Amazing, after all the things he did for human rights and in a non-violent way, he was never recognized with a Nobel Peace Prize.

    If only he had lived a little longer he could have been as great as the Supreme leader and President of the United States,
    Barrack Hussein Obama.

    But then Ghandi did not come from Chicago nor knew the ways of community organizing.

    The Nobel has shown itself to be a sham.

  729. This is pretty damn funny, IMO. A comment from someone in the US Dept of State on Obama’s NPP:

    “Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum — when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes.”

  730. A note of congratulations to Pres. Barack Obama on winning the Nobel Peace Prize, from French President Nicolas Sarkozy: “Finally, it sets the seal on America’s return to the heart of all the world’s peoples.”

    I don’t think any of us realized just how reprehensible America had become to people of the world. When Obama was elected the world rejoiced – not because it was Obama, but because of US – you and me – standing up and saying no more. This is not who we are as a people. This is not who we are as a nation. He became the embodiment of that which is good, and right, and moral, and forward looking in this country. And the Nobel Committee recognized that – it’s not just a prize for Obama, it’s OUR Nobel Peace Prize. It’s recognition that we are coming out of the darkness and into the light again.

  731. Bill Moyers Journal

    Essay: The Health Care Lobby


  732. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 10/10/09

    New Momentum
    for Health Reform


  733. Hey gang, I was wondering what yinze think about the White House’s public condemnation of Fox news?


    It is a risky strategy for the White House to employ. Conventional politics suggests you leave the dirty work to the DNC or a PAC. You are never suppose to “piss” the press off because after all the pen is mightier than the sword! It has also been considered “beneath” the office of the president to engage in petty nit picking, it is meant to be perceived as whining and weak.

    On the other hand wisdom tell us not to let the enemy define us. Offense wins the game, and enough is enough!

    What do you think? Will his backfire in the Presidents face? Are you, as progressives happy that the President has decided to “call em out’? Do you think it will matter in the long run?

    Inquiring minds want to know!

    Thanks in advance.. namaste

  734. I thing etiquette books should come back in vogue, people don’t seem to know proper form when anyone wins something, Brazil the Olympics, President Obama the Nobel Peace Prize, it is congratulations. Too many people rant on and on, disparaging the recipient or the award, and others rationalize the why. Whatever happened to “keep it simple stupid,” just say congratulations and move on.

    Jean, no plans on my part to displace you or anyone else, unfortunately I think my idea is a pipedream. No remote uninhabited piece of land of significant size and climate, to relocate the dregs of society exists anymore.

  735. Congratulations President Obama!

    I have faith this will give you renewed strength to keep pushing to do the right thing for the American people.

  736. Hi gang,

    This has been a Red Letter time for me. This is ONE advantage to aging! I had a routine eye exam with my Ophthalmologist/Eye Surgeon. I have been myopic (near sighted) right along. Apparently, as one ages the natural progression is toward presbyopia (far sightedness.) You know, when your arms aren’t long enough to hold a book far away enough to read. It’s a lot more complicated than that but the upshot is that my myopia has been cancelled out by presbyopia and now at age 80, I have normal vision without glasses! I think my bifocals were very close to window glass anyway because I could always see without glasses to read the fine print; the phone book, newspapers, the computer and the piano keyboards as well as the music on the music stand. Stuff at a distance tended to be a little blurry though. (I do have one lil’ ole cataract that has been growing for a while but it’s not ready to be removed yet. I’ll cross that bridge if or when I come to it.)

    The eye doc gave me a form signed by him. I hotfooted it (more like hobbled) over to the DMV, paid my six bucks and got a new driver’s license that took OFF the “Needs Corrected Vision” requirement. I didn’t even have to take the eye test or anything. Unfortunately the picture on my new license isn’t much better. I can’t drive very far on an itty-bitty island only 35 miles in diameter with mostly only two lane highways. But I get to wherever I want to go and driving is a sit-down activity for my crappy back.

    My last pair of glasses cost me $400.00. Now, that’s money in the bank! I rounded up several old pairs of glasses including some prescription sunglasses along with some of my husband’s too. We took them to Long’s Drug store where they have a box sponsored by the Lion’s Club. They collect them for recycling and redistribution.

    I feel so liberated!!! No more smudged or fogged up glasses. No more laying them down and forgetting where they are.

    My eye doc and I are good buddies. Besides being a fine doctor he is an accomplished pianist. So after a thorough eye exam we sit there for a while and talk music. Naturally, he and his staff carefully check for those nasty eye diseases that are insidious because they are initially and usually painless. Of course, pain or an injury will send people scurrying to the eye doc. Even dry eyes can be painful, but easily taken care of with over the counter artificial tears twice a day.

    Serious eye diseases like cancer, glaucoma, torn retinas and histoplasmosis require the expertise of a qualified ophthalmologist. I had a dear friend with histoplasmosis who lost chunks of her field of vision before it was treated with a laser to prevent further damage. (HISTOPLASMOSIS is caused by an air born fungus prevalent in the Deep South, not to be confused with LEPTOPLASMOSIS, caused by a bacterium in fresh water streams here in Hawaii.)

    I said my eye doc is a pianist. (He is probably approaching middle age even though, to ME, he looks more like he’s 13-14 years old.) Sometime when I get around to it, I’ll tell you what he and some of his other medical colleagues do. It is a heartwarming story.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  737. Wow, what an awesome, beautiful and to-the-point rant. My husband is in the background cheering at you. Thanks for saying all this, so exactly on target.

  738. Anne

    No need to get testy yourself.

    I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on Obama’s statement when he said he didn’t deserve the prize. He was simply being self-deprecating. That’s just the way he is.

    Greg Mortenson is an exemplary individual. Unfortunately he does not have the international recognition or political stature to change the basic culture of any nation. He may change the lives of the girls going to one of his schools, but nothing will get resolved in Afghanistan until people learn that Al Qaida and the Taliban are not the main enemy. It is the tribal chieftans protecting their drug routes and control over their local businesses who are the genesis of the country’s problems. And Afghanistan is not the only culture that needs changing.

    We need someone who can work with and influence the leaders of other countries, friends and foes alike, before we can begin to approach solutions. And there is no instant fix in all of this. This process will continue far beyond my lifetime. After all, it took hundreds of years to get us to this level of disagreement but we have to start somewhere. Obama is inaugurating the first change of direction by an influential leader of the international community we’ve seen in several decades.

  739. Jean

    Your little patch is safe.
    I was thinking of something a little farther south like the South Georgia or South Sandwich Islands in the South Atlantic. It would be okay for the penguins to continue leaving their calling cards there.

  740. Please, please PLEASE write a book!! I want to read
    more of your intelligence, common sense and wit!!

  741. I just want to say that I agree, and I love you. You remind me of my Mom.

  742. Well, just when I think we are moving forward… sometimes there is a step back. Along with good news, unfortunately there is also bad…

    “Yesterday, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted to reauthorize three expiring provisions in the USA PATRIOT Act.”

    Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leslie-harris/obama-versus-obama-on-the_b_315638.html

  743. Hi gang, jsri and Anne,

    Hey! Now wait just a damn minute! I’m on a itty-bitty island in the middle of the Pacific.

    But the Atlantic has nice islands too, ergo, the Azores. Lets try the Indian Ocean. Nope. Good people there too. Arctic or Antarctic? The penguins wouldn’t want their habitat messed up.

    I guess we will just have to put up with some strange thinking people until they ever, or maybe never, shape up.

    In the meantime, I’m basking in the reflected glory of OUR president being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  744. [...] Helen: I am not sure when it happened but the base of the Republican party either got lazy or stupid or both… or maybe they always were.   It took me only a few minutes of research on the internet to learn that America spends more on healthcare than any other wealthy nation and yet we don’t live longer or have better health outcomes. So unless we just enjoy making health insurance companies rich, all those tea party morons  need to use the internet for something other than ordering their penis enhancement pills. [...] [...]

  745. Donna says – “To me, the award is an indication of how dreadful America’s reputation was in the world and an acknowledgment of hope that this is a new approach and time.”

    I think that is it. You could be glib and say that he got it for being Not Bush, and you wouldn’t be wrong. But it is about hope.

    Now, I had hope during the Bush administration. For 8 years, I woke up every morning and hoped desperately that those lunatics wouldn’t pick today to blow up everything, just because they could. Hoped that the Congress, the courts and the Constitution could hang on to at least a few of our rights. Hoped we would know when paranoid became realistic. We apologized to our friends abroad and hoped someday we wouldn’t have to. Hoped we could hang on long enough to get rid of the bastards. That’s not the kind of hope this is.

    This is good. We’ve joined the world again and the world has noticed. We’re no longer a global gangster and we’re working to make coalitions so together we all can keep the other global gangsters in check. No more gang wars with the intended goal of leaving us the last, biggest, bad guy on the planet.

    This is an honor that will have to be lived up to, rather than one that has already been earned. I believe and hope that Obama understands this. More precisely, I believe he wants to and can. This guy came to play – no, actually, he came to work. That’s a big enough change right there to get your hopes up.

  746. Andrew Sullivan sums Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize: Know Hope.


  747. Greytdog and Donna Thank you for putting so eloquently into words what I have been feeling about the Nobel Peace Prize.
    AS you said it was not so much what he has done but the HOPE that he has givien us and the world.

    So far from the REpugs, I have heard nothing positive for fixing the mess we were in.

    I’m with y ou about not listening to any of them.
    Twice this week I have passed Glen BEck wh ile channel surfing. The first time I lasted aboutmaybe 20 seconds, the second even less.

  748. WONDERFUL!!!!!!!

    Thank you so much for this!

  749. Oh and in the excitement of the NPP and the banality of the day. . .let us not forget the importance of today’s date:

    Happy birthday to you!!!

  750. Greytdog Thanks for the linkto sotto voce.
    VEry good.

    I would b e ashamed to call myself Republican as they are nothing but negativity and hate. How do they live withthemselves?/

  751. oh, and jsri: I have maxed out. I forced myself to listen to talk radio so that I would hear other points of view. I have decided that it’s not worth hearing. I know that these people will say anything regardless of its truth or merit. I know they are cruel and crude and venal and without any redeeming qualities. And I am DONE.

  752. Anne–I am a big Obama fan. To me, the award is an indication of how dreadful America’s reputation was in the world and an acknowledgment of hope that this is a new approach and time. But you are correct–it is not a result of anything in particular that he DID. It is what–at least in my opinion–he REPRESENTS.

    And jsri–I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Or that Anne was not appropriate in her comment. Actually, I think you both are correct. I don’t disagree with the award to our president, I am thrilled that our reputation in the world is being restored, but I do believe the award is an expression of hope as opposed to an acknowledgment of current achievement.

  753. Sometimes, the Nobel Peace Prize is not given for what a person has accomplished, but for what they have inspired others to accomplish, to strive towards…
    I think that’s what the Nobel Peace Committee was alluding to – that the election of Barack Obama not only inspired this country, but inspired the world. His campaign, his election to the Presidency of the United States of America, echoed throughout the globe – his campaign motto of Yes We Can is the thread that binds us. Because we recognize that the problems facing this country, facing this world cannot be solved by one man, or even one nation. They can only be solved by people around the world who say and live their life as the answer of Yes We Can.

  754. *or hear it

  755. I am sure many of you received this e-mail but for those who did not… here ya go.. ;-)

    I love my President..

    lor –

    This morning, Michelle and I awoke to some surprising and humbling news. At 6 a.m., we received word that I’d been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009.

    To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who’ve been honored by this prize — men and women who’ve inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace.

    But I also know that throughout history the Nobel Peace Prize has not just been used to honor specific achievement; it’s also been used as a means to give momentum to a set of causes.

    That is why I’ve said that I will accept this award as a call to action, a call for all nations and all peoples to confront the common challenges of the 21st century. These challenges won’t all be met during my presidency, or even my lifetime. But I know these challenges can be met so long as it’s recognized that they will not be met by one person or one nation alone.

    This award — and the call to action that comes with it — does not belong simply to me or my administration; it belongs to all people around the world who have fought for justice and for peace. And most of all, it belongs to you, the men and women of America, who have dared to hope and have worked so hard to make our world a little better.

    So today we humbly recommit to the important work that we’ve begun together. I’m grateful that you’ve stood with me thus far, and I’m honored to continue our vital work in the years to come.

    Thank you,

    President Barack Obama

  756. Jsri, I am chuckling about your solution to isolate right-wing-dingbats to their own island, for a long time now, I have been telling my husband, we need to send child molesters to their own islands. Males on one, females on a different island, give them seeds and implements so they can survive, but not let them breed their own victims. I think your idea and mine could be combined, ignorant people really shouldn’t reproduce and instill hate into impressionable young minds.

  757. jsri:

    No need to get testy. Obama himself said he doesn’t deserve the prize. Having a positive tone is not enough to merit a Nobel Prize. It is not my responsibility to suggest who should win one. However, if you’d like an example of someone who is deserving, I’d nominate Greg Mortenson, who has risked his life to build schools for girls in Afghanistan. Future Al Kaida suicide bombers come out of schools run by religious fanatics who indoctrinate school children into believe the US is bad. This American has spent his own money and risked his life several times to build schools to give girls a real education. I’d say that’s something tangible a person is doiing to promote peace.

  758. Anne on October 9, 2009 at 2:47 PM

    I’m not mystified by the award at all. I believe that the committee was well aware that in order to change the direction of history, there must be changes in the underlying culture and to change the culture requires a change in attitude on the part of those in leadership positions. After all, we have plenty of examples to show that belligerence simply begets more belligerence and we know well how that worked during the years of the GWB administration.

    If you believe that President Obama is so undeserving of the award, perhaps you could name someone somewhere else in the world who has the respect, the influence and the potential to change the culture. Or would you prefer that we go back to the world threatening posture of the previous administration?

  759. “Top 50 Conservative Websites Reveal Alarming Patterns”


    “The next time you run into someone on a forum board or social media website that starts going off about how Obama has a fake birth certificate, the health care plan is to euthanize the elderly, or other nut-flavored conspiracy theories, you can bet they just came from one of the following places.”

  760. I cannot believe they awareded Obama a Nobel Peace Prize. I mean, I like the guy. I voted for the guy. I despise the Republican party right now. I admire what he’s trying to do as far as health care, improving international relations, refocusing our efforts on Afghanistan, global warming, renewable energy, ect. But a Nobel Peace Prize??? He was nominated for it only a couple of months into his presidency! It seems as though he’s won on the basis of what he says he wants to do, rather than what he’s actually acomplished. It seems he’s won simply by being not-Bush. Not-Bush is not an accomplishment. I could see it after his first term, after we’ve seen results, but I don’t think setting a new tone really qualifies for a Nobel Prize. I’m stratching my head over this one.

  761. Fascinating news! But I fear it will only make President Obama’s life more difficult.

    The escalation of apoplectic comments by Faux news groupies and mindless Limbaugh acolytes is truly scary to the point that I am really frightened by the possibility of action by some umhinged follower. The comments have sunk to a venomous depth that in my lifetime I would never have believed was possible.

    I just wish there was a remote island somewhere in the South Atlantic where we could ship them all and simply label it according to the mindset they represent, Berserkistan

  762. kitkatΔ and Δ¥ Tine, You’re probably right about that being bogus. I can find 3 sources, but can’t find a credible source that agrees with it and like you said no article in the Aug 3rd from the Daily Express. Whoops, my bad. I wish I could pull that comment with the link. I should have done more research first. I guess I jumped the gun. Happens sometimes. I don’t like to be the one helping to spread any rumors. Sorry! :sad:

  763. VEry best congratulations to President Obama!
    The proclamation issued by the Nobel Committee says it all !

    I had lost all hope the past 8 years and Obamas’ election brought it all back. And n ow the Nobel Peace Prize!

  764. I had the same reaction, Kitkat. Though I dislike Jindal, I find the details of that story rather outrageous.

  765. Poolman, I think that Jindal story is totally made up. There is no article in the Daily Express about Jindal on August 3rd or any other date. It smells fishy to me.

  766. “Prominent Republican Allegedly Scratches out Passages of Bible, Claims Jesus Would Deny Health Care”

  767. Only through dialog can we understand others, whether it is on this blog or other countries and cultures. We need to be willing to risk talking because living in blind fear is more of a risk. It is so much easier to label someone a “bogeyman” if you know nothing about him.

  768. Hi gang,

    I am SO proud of our President Obama and how he has lifted the stature of the United States around the world.

    Congratulations to him and to all the other reciipients who have worked so hard and dedicated their lives to science and the humanities.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  769. I have health insurance, good health insurance. And if I found out I had cancer tomorrow, it would be a hard choice for me to make whether I wanted to go through treatment and be in debt for the rest of my life, working and struggling to pay off my cancer treatment, or live whatever time I have left in peace with my family…and I’m 30 years old. No one should have to make that choice. Cancer or any other disease would ruin me financially for the rest of my life, and like I said, I actually have “good” insurance.

  770. Greytdog- sadly I think that I am the enemy of your enemy which puts me in a bind.I choose life.

  771. Congratulations President Obama!

    The wing nuts must be gong crazy! They are crazy – nothing new there.

  772. Folks, here’s another worthy blog; Sotto Voce.

    Her post today:Nobel Peace Prize Winner Barak Obama « Sotto Voce http://bit.ly/LmosQ

    A remarkable person. Really.

  773. Here’s Your Real Death Panel: CIGNA Employees Flip Off Mother Of Nataline Sarkisyan:


    The clilp of FOX defending the insurance company’s decision to deny the liver transplant is sick! It’s exactly the death panel they rail against!

    Then they go on and say denial of coverage doesn’t mean she couldn’t have gotten the surgery. They could have found the money some other way. For a liver transplant?!? There are doctors who won’t even SEE an uninsured patient!

    Obviously I don’t know if the procedure was the right thing for this girl or not, but am just outraged at the hypocrisy over the death panel argument! Hide your grandma, folks… we have death panels TODAY!

  774. Thanks for the incredibly groovy clip, Greytdog.

  775. Had to share this with you all:

  776. Rush Limbaugh is seeking to buy the St Louis Rams NFL team.

    Many black players say they would not play for him. I’m impressed! Good for them!

  777. Outspoken critics of Obama’s Nobel Prize award:
    RNC Chair Michael Steele

    Well water seeks its own level, IMO.

    President Obama is on TV right now – points out that his kids put things into perspective: “Daddy you won the Nobel Peace Prize, it’s Bo’s birthday today, and we have a 3-day weekend coming up!”

  778. I went cruising around to see how the right wing reaction is shaping up. It is actually worse than I expected. Aparently my brain just can’t go that low!

  779. Congratulations, Mr. President!!!!
    (I wonder how FAUX is going to spin this one.)
    And well said, Greytdog!

  780. Secret TalkerΔ :”We can be hopeful but we must not underestimate others whose culture & outlook is quite different from ours.”

    Good point. At the same time, we must not allow those differences to blind us from seeking out and upholding the commonalities between us. It’s a fine balance between the two, and we have to further understand that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. He may end up being a more dangerous enemy.

  781. This is the kind of thinking we need now… for those who shun exercise…

    I love this idea. I would even travel to go to a place where they had this as a permanent installment.

  782. http://www.jihadwatch.org/

    Words can slip easily from the tongue. Political Islam is waging a war from within that achieves concessions for their beliefs in Europe but is not liberal in return towards other beliefs; and with a belief also that they are at war and anything and everything is fair…such as lying to achieve Jihad; and pretending to work for a peace that includes all people.We can be hopeful but we must not underestimate others whose culture & outlook is quite different from ours.

  783. And I first heard of it here! I opened the comments this morning and found a couple of congratulations, not knowing what they were for. I was very pleased when I immediately found the story on Raw Story. This news gave my mood a wonderful lift for a gloomy, rainy day. It also helps that I’m forced to take a day off since we landscapers don’t work in heavy downpours, just light drizzles. Even if Obama accomplishes nothing more in his term, he as changed the way the rest of the world sees us. It feels good!

  784. mmmm sometimes GOOD does win.. ;-)

  785. Peace on Earth….
    and always believe in good will!

    Congratulations, President Obama!

  786. The citation from the Committee awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to Barack Obama, the President of the United States of America:

    The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama’s vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

    Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama’s initiative, the United States is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

    Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world’s attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world’s population.

    For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world’s leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama’s appeal that “now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges.”

  787. I hope he is not innocently facilitating The Third Jihad. Congrats?

  788. Woooo hooo, President Obama, you rock!

    In Taoist principles of yin and yang, it is seen that when either force goes to its extreme, it becomes its opposite and complimentary force. It appears that we now have that opposite and complimentary force in our President and the world is so quick in recognizing it. You gotta love the miracle of hope and its restorative powers.

  789. What a surprise! Wow.

    And now, let us put in our earplugs to ignore the collective cow-having of the right-wingnut media.

  790. Congratulations President Obama.

  791. Congratulations Mr. President!

  792. Lots of interesting comments. However, I’m ready for another post…

  793. thymeCher- just read the Times ar ticle. Wow. He doesnt pull any punches does he. T hanks for sending the link.
    Glad to see you back. Have missed seeing you Posts during the summer.

  794. thymeCher – T hanks for your info about Whitman. WE do not need her as governor. The one we have now is no picnic.
    Googled her this morning and got a lot. Interesting how many companies she has bounced around!!
    You B&B slower down a bit?
    Missed the LAT imes bit . Going to read it now. Thanks again.

  795. @ Grandma Katie on October 7, 2009
    at 9:48 AM

    This article ran in Monday’s LA Times. You may want to rethink Meg Whitman as gov…

    “California’s political graveyards are littered with wannabe governors who fantasized about using their vast fortunes to buy the top job without first paying any dues.

    And not only did Whitman shun the political ladder, she has hardly ever used the ballot box. Or the convenient absentee ballot. Now 53, she didn’t even register to vote until 46, the Sacramento Bee reported. She didn’t become a Republican until two years ago.

    An “atrocious” record, Whitman now admits. “I was focused on raising a family, on my husband’s career, and we moved many, many times. It is no excuse. My voting record . . . is unacceptable.”

    Yes. And this is what the record indicates: Whitman felt she had more important things to do than participate in democracy’s most basic civic duty. She couldn’t be bothered. Had little interest in public policy.

    Now she wants to be governor. Is that arrogant?”


  796. Where have you two delightful ladies been? I’ve been checking at least 3 times a day since 9-23. I sure hope you are both well…………please write again soon…………missing your wonderful commentary on life in this world!

  797. This has information on the Blue Dogs obstructing Health care reform.


  798. If you didn’t watch Keith Olbermann last night, please follow Whirled Peas links. Definitely must see. I also like the idea of the free clinics in key states to try to wake up these clueless Senators. Thanks also to Lori for the links — I’ve signed up and passed them on.

  799. Thanks again KO!

    National Association
    of Free Clinics (NAFC)

    PEACE ~ Δ

  800. Olbermann’s Special Comment:
    The Fight Against Death

    10-07-09 Part One


    Parts 2 thru 5

    Must see TV ~ Thanks KO! ~ Δ

  801. lori,

    Thanks for signing our petition asking the Senate to pass The Kennedy Bill. We’ll deliver all signatures this coming Monday to Sen. Harry Reid and other Senate offices. We’re at 74,557 signatures. Can you help us reach 100,000 by Monday by telling others?

    If you’re on Facebook, click here to share the petition. http://www.facebook.com/share.php?u=http://honorkennedy.com/p-2m1-fb-auto

    If you’re on Twitter, click to automatically Tweet this message: RT @BoldProgressive Tell Senators: Pass the Kennedy Bill on health reform, NOT the insurance-industry written bill http://bit.ly/RcglI #p2

    Or simply forward the below email to your friends.

    Thanks for being a bold progressive,
    –Stephanie Taylor, PCCC co-founder


    Hi. Senators will soon choose between passing the Kennedy health care bill with a public health insurance option or another bill written by the insurance companies.

    I just signed this petition telling senators to honor Ted Kennedy by passing The Kennedy Bill. http://honorkennedy.com/p-2m1-auto

    It has over 74,000 signatures and progressives are trying to get 100,000 by Monday — when it will be delivered to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Will you sign the petition? You can sign here.

    The petition says: “Ted Kennedy was a courageous champion for health care reform his entire life. In his honor, the Senate should pass the Kennedy Bill that passed Kennedy’s health committee — and nothing less.”


  802. hey guys please take a minute to sign this:


    hopefully it will give these people the kick in the ass they need.

  803. jsri,

    When a loved one dies, it leaves a void that is not pleasant or desired, and what you do with your grief helps to define who you are. You have an incredibly positive attitude which will see you through this time, and the fact that you used this experience to praise your mother and her influence is heartwarming and quite telling. You have my warmest thoughts.

  804. Dear jsri–you are in my thoughts. Thank you for sharing your situation. I admire you very much.

  805. Sorry about your loss jsri. Your brother is in the best place there is. May he rest in peace.

  806. jsri, my sincere condolences to you and your family on the loss of your brother. Even though he had “been gone” for a year, it’s still hard to grasp when death occurs. This is from Helen Steiner Rice

    Into the darkness and warmth of the earth

    We lay you down

    Into the sadness and smiles of our memories

    We lay you down

    Into the cycle of living and dying and rising again

    We lay you down

    May you rest in peace, in fulfilment, in loving

    May you run straight home in God’s embrace

    Into the freedom of wind and sunshine

    We let you go

    Into the dance of the stars and the planets

    We let you go

    Into the wind’s breath and the hands of the star maker

    We let you go

    We love you, we miss you, we want you to be happy

    Go safely, go dancing, go running home

    Peace unto you and yours.

  807. http://bit.ly/njVt3

    QUickTime Clip of that song, Tine.

  808. Red State’s Dublap has the solution to healthcare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nc8krJThLo&feature=player_embedded#

  809. jsri, so sorry to hear about the loss of your brother, however, as you said he had been gone for the past year. I do feel that Alzheimers must be the worse disease to befall a family. I have seen the early stages and the person is so angry for the beginning of the loss of memory. It seems you have a very loving family who were able to cope with this dreadful disease.
    Namaste’ Δ

  810. Helen is a good writer and all, but Margaret is the true back bone in this dog and pony show. I do worry about her so…

    Drop us a line, Margaret dear! :-)

  811. My sympathies to you and your family in the passing of your brother. Bless you all.

  812. Jsri, my condolences to you and your family.

  813. Hi gang and dear,dear jsri,

    My heart goes out to you and your family with the loss of your brother. You are a man with thoughtful wisdom.

    My only brother was killed at age 24 at the Anzio Beachead in Italy during WWII. I ALWAYS choke up when I hear “Taps”.

    Death is inevitable, we all know that. But even one unnecessary death is unconsciousable.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  814. yw Grandma Katie.

  815. I want to thank all the H&M contributors who offered condolences and gentle thoughts on the death of my brother. It is this considerate family-like atmosphere that keeps me coming back to H&M’s website.

    Our family is comfortable with my brother’s passing probably because he has been gone from us for the past year despite the fact that he was still physically present. I think most people would agree that Alzheimers is harder on the family than it is on the affected individual.

    Every family has its ups and downs, agreements and disputes yet my brothers and sisters and I as a family tended to concentrate on the positive influences each member brought to the party, a trait we learned from our mother. By focussing on the good that each person has shared, we are better able to treat death as merely the end of a physical presence but not an end to the influence of that person.

    My oldest sister was my first guiding light. She taught me the value of education. She also taught me how to read long before I got to school. And she had a quirky sense of humor that she often used when things went bad. My oldest brother was always in trouble for pushing the envelope, always trying something different. I learned that when things were not going according to plan, try something else. My next brother, the one who just passed away, had a powerful work ethic. Whenever he took a job, he’d examine and test every facet of the job until he had it mastered. And my little sister, the caring and compassionate one became a nurse. Sometimes you don’t need outside influences to guide you.

    So, do I agree with everything each one did in life? Not at all. But in different particulars, they were my role models.

  816. jsri – my heartfelt sympathies go to you and your family.
    WAtching decline into altzheimers is painful. Now he is in Peace.

    Lori – after rereading your comments os Whitman – she is definitely NOT what CAlifornia to run this state.

    Thanks a lot for the info.

  817. Thank you, Poolman. I’m not getting a video, but that’s definitely the recording I was looking for.

  818. jsri, I’m so sorry for your loss. I wish you and your family peace

  819. Δ¥ Tine, here is the video:


    jsri, God Bless you and comfort you in your loss.

  820. You’re welcome, Pamela. I wish I could find a YouTube clip of Pat Humphries herself singing this song. The lyrics alone don’t quite do it justice; it’s a lovely piece. (Some amateur clips are available, but they’re not so good.)

  821. jsri, I’m so sorry to hear about the loss of your brother. Peace to you.

  822. Tine, thank you …. that was soooo beautiful it made me cry. I’ve cut and saved it to send to my aunt Trish whose true love (and my favorite uncle) passed a few weeks ago and I pray she’ll find comfort in this as I did.

  823. Jrsi, I’m so sorry for your family’s loss.

  824. jsri, may you and your family be lifted up with love that eases the pain and sadness of your brother’s passing. May peace embrace you.

    This is what I was trying to post and it originally had Louis Armstrong singing “Its a Wonderful World” though this version is beautiful as well. jsri, I hope it brings a smile to your face.


    Darn, I think you’ll have to cut and past it. If nothing else, go to youtube and type in cat and deer. Enjoy

  825. Jsri, I’m sorry for your loss. Godspeed to your brother and peace to everyone who loved him.

    This isn’t exactly a hymn, but I thought of it in your brother’s honor:

    Swimming to the Other Side
    by Pat Humphries

    We are living ‘neath the great big dipper
    We are washed by the very same rain
    We are swimming in this stream together
    Some in power and some in pain
    We can worship this ground we walk on
    Cherishing the beings that we live beside
    Loving spirits will live forever
    We’re all swimming to the other side

    I am alone and I am searching, hungering for answers in my time
    I am balanced at the brink of wisdom
    I’m impatient to receive a sign
    I move forward with my senses open
    Imperfection, it be my crime
    In humility, I will listen
    We’re all swimming to the other side

    On this journey through thoughts and feelings
    Binding intuition, my head, my heart
    I am gathering the tools together. I’m preparing to do my part
    All of those who have come before me
    Band together and be my guide
    Loving lessons that I will follow
    We’re all swimming to the other side

    When we get there we’ll discover
    All of the gifts we’ve been given to share
    Have been with us since life’s beginning
    And we never noticed they were there
    We can balance at the brink of wisdom
    Never recognizing that we’ve arrived
    Loving spirits will live together
    We’re all swimming to the other side

  826. Dear Jsri,
    Please accept my deepest condolences on the loss of your brother.
    Maybe we can all sing a hymn for him.

  827. May the white light of the holy spirit surround you and your family in this sorrow filled time Jsri

  828. Two days ago my brother passed away. He was a WWII submarine service vet who quit school when he was 17 to join the Navy. The WWII vets in my family rarely brought up war experiences except when talking to one another. Even then they provided few details of their worst adventures. My brother fit that mold.

    He was an enlisted seaman on the USS Queenfish when it was involved in one of the most controversial ship sinkings of the war, that of the Japanese relief ship the Awa Maru in 1944. Missed communications, an altered course and a dense foggy night sealed the fate of the doomed ship. So for many years my brother offered nothing about his duties of that night until about a year ago when he agreed to sit down and tell about it.

    Unfortunately, his short term memory was beginning to fail although he had better recall of much earlier life incidents, – classic Alzheimer’s symptoms. From there it was a rapid descent into dementia. According to my sister-in-law, his private insurance balked at attempts at new medications declaring first that he had a pre-existing condition and that the treatments offered were experimental.

    Their last alternative was to turn to the VA for help, that damned “socialist” entity created by the government to drain money from hard-working, god-fearing American taxpayers. For his last two weeks my brother was treated with great compassion and respect by a caring and competent staff. As a consequence, his passing was much less stressful, even a relief for his wife and children.

    And I have missed an opportunity to learn a little more about a historic incident that has become almost as much a fable as a fact. While I suspect that there would be no earth shattering revelations it would have been nice to be able to hear the perspective of yet another participant who was on the scene when the controversial event took place.

  829. LOL Grandma Katie, I am not sure she is as loony as Palin and Bachman, but she is pretty conservitive. I THINK she is pro choice (if my memory serves me correctly, and that’s a BIG if..LOL ) but she was in favor of having parental consent for teens.

    She is VERY pro business and anti green though.

  830. Thanks Lori. You have told me all I want to know! So one is crossed off my list and relegated to the heap with Bachman, Palin etc etc. Just what we don’t need in California.
    Just read in paper that McCain’s bill to dismantle Boeing in Long Beach failed!

  831. http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/AFq_y/zJUk/pbIf

  832. *economic advisors

  833. Grandma Katie, Whitman is a conservative best known probably for her business prowess. She was CEO of e-bay for awhile. It is a mixed bag when it comes to people’s opinion of her successes in that arena.

    On the political side she endorsed Romney until he dropped out of the race, I believe she was one of his economical advisors. After he dropped out she supported McCain and was meant to be on his short list for vp and treasury. She is against gay marriage and was a supporter of prop 8. She has suggested that if she is elected gov she will suspend the restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions. She is one of those who doesn’t “believe in global warming”.

  834. I would like to know more about Meg Whitman. At least I think that is her name. She is running (already) for CAlifornia Governor. I have heard a little about her.Ex head of Ebay and a few other companies. She caused money problems acording to what I heard. Anyone else know anything about her? CAlifornia definitely needs a new voice as Governor.

  835. Pamela, just copy and paste the URL (website address) from the YouTube clip in the comment box. The YouTube clip will show up automatically.

    Hiccup apparently missed the key fact that millions of people ARE PAYING and are NOT PERMITTED TO PLAY. What part of “consistently expensive, sucky health insurance” do these fact-challenged people not understand?

  836. To: judith on October 7, 2009 at 6:10 AM

    I suspect Grandpa has been kicked to the curb because he is either already gone or about to go, thanks to our current healthcare system (or lack of it).

  837. Good morning all. Can anyone guide me in how to post a youtube clip here?

  838. Delurker–they typically stay gone. I can think of maybe one time when I needed to repeat the sugar and that was it.

  839. Donna, thanks for the tip. Do the hiccups stay gone when you do that? I do the upside down water trick and it works well but the hiccups don’t stay gone for me. Just hate hiccups!

    Judith, I think using grandma is a recommendation from marketing. Grandpa’s are so often crabby (or dirty) old men, yanno. Well, except for most of the grandpa’s I know!

    Lori, I sing like you. I’m asked to sing ‘so low’ rather than ‘solo’.

    No one’s puppetΔ, I read that the passwords were actually collected via a fishing (phishing? pfishing????) scam and that the actual email providers themselves were not hacked. That makes sense – that was an awful lot of companies to get hacked simultaneously! It’s good practice to change your passwords periodically though, and not have the same password everywhere. Beware of anyone who asks for your password to anything. :) Make them hard to guess, different everywhere, include upper case, lower case, numbers and special characters. And don’t write them down. In other words, impossible to remember so you have to ask for a password reset every time you access a site, LOL. I think it’s a vast tech wing conspiracy to provide entertainment for system administrators!

  840. Yesterday one of you kind folks let us know about changing our passwords for hotmail accounts that has been expanded. I heard on the news this morning, there was a breach of security last Sunday and numerous email passwords leaked, so it is a good idea to reset your password. This applies to hotmail, yahoo, gmail, etc, so you may want to pass this message on to all your friends.

    I hate to be a spoil sport, but I’m not coming to your musical recital. I’ve raised three children, and also had a sister who never did master the clarinet, my nerves are shot. I’ll be there later for some pie though.

  841. Congratulations, farsight Δ!

    I was thinking the same thing last night–Katherine Harris and Michelle Bachmann,
    two plastic peas in a pod! You know, like those plastic vegetables my school has on top of the lunch cart. Not too inspiring.

  842. Well I can’t carry a tune in a bucket but I listen well! All performers need an audience… I’ll sign up for audience committee.. ;-O

  843. So now it’s not the Bible that’s inerrant, it’s them.

    I always suspected as much.

    My husband pointed out this AM that nobody’s concerned about killing Grandpa. WTH? What did Grandpa do to get kicked to the curb like this? He’s taking it quite personally.

  844. aha! I can be useful here. This is directly from my husband’s residency. Take a spoonful of sugar and let it dissolve on the back of your tongue. No more hiccups.

  845. Forget Helen…where is Margaret???

  846. Farsight, happy anniversary. So why were you on the porch playing the banjo instead of celebrating ;-)

    Ugh, Katherine Harris definitely has an aura and it smells.

  847. Hey, it’s 10:41 PM my time so it is still my wonderful wife’s and my 18th wedding anniversary.

  848. Alaskan,

    Looks like they may be about ready to fix some of those pesky little problems Jesus has caused:


  849. kitkatΔ,

    I didn’t like Betsy McCaughey the first time I saw her and I like her even less now. She is disingenuous at best, and I think they went easier on her in the interview than she deserves.

    As far as I am concerned, you could take all the best qualities of McCaughey, Palin, Harris, Coulter and Bachmann and it wouldn’t even be enough to make one decent human being.

  850. I hate hiccups. I always get those really violent kind that hurt really bad. I also notice they always come in batches and I get them constantly for several days.

    One of my kids had them all the time when I was pregnant with him too. It was funny watching my belly hiccup.

    I definitely believe in paying my own way, but would never fault someone for hard circumstances. That is just human kindness. Jesus was a socialist. You didn’t see him asking for people’s HMO card before he would make them walk or heal leprosy.

    He also gave loaves and fishes to everyone that came. Share with those less fortunate. I don’t remember the part of the story where he says “get your hands off my fish and go get your own.”

    Since when did Christianity become so “unChrist like?” Very disturbing and sad too.

    It is ok for C Street to have affairs and not be subject to the same rules. It is ok for Palin’s daughter to have babies out of wedlock. But just try to show compassion and concern for fellow human beings as shown by Christ and all of a sudden you are a socialist and a commie. I seem to remember that Jesus was a teacher; teaching us a new way of being and acting with one another.

    Go ahead and raise my taxes some if it will benefit the status quo of everyone. I am not that selfish that I will say “I got mine, who cares about yours.”

  851. Bending over forward and drinking upside down always works for me.

    You can sit on the porch, but don’t feed the critters.

    I think the aura of Katharine Harris (think Florida) is very similar to that of Michelle Bachmann.

  852. Maybe if we hold our breath.

  853. BOO!

    Just trying to scare the hiccup away.

  854. You people are full of shit. Single payor healthcare will bankrupt this county. Like everythiing else in life – if you can”t afford it, you should have it. Pay to play. Survival of the fittest.

    The bloom is off the rose. Obama is a loser.

  855. farsight, thanks for the doo whop horses… listened to every imaginable combination for an extended time … evidently much needed after seeing Craig cut and snip my extended hand out to help him and turn it into some smear… wth. Is that what you were up to Craig? Were you listing all those pastes as evidence of attacks on you from the friendly folks on the porch? Do you not remember how many people reached out to you and offered suggestions and care and concern over your health and well being? Is it possible I’ve misunderstood?

    Do any two people ever see anything in the same light? It’s so easy to assume what people are up to and caste judgements. Much harder to listen and stay open in heart and mind.

    I’ve got a didgeradoo and a rainstick and some drums and can definitely carry a tune though I don’t feel much like talking. I will say that from my research and imho, the vaccination is a very dangerous thing and that’s all I’ll say.

  856. before you put the cap back on that superglue stick dont forget palin

  857. watch Rep. Weiner take on Betsy McCaughey — she might be wishing for one of the death panels she is so happy to talk about.

  858. No, it’s Twinkie night! Yay Twins!!!

  859. I took conducting class in college while a member of the Concert Choir. And I’ve directed a church choir for two years in my very distant past.

    I would love to direct this porch ensemble–or maybe it’s a full-fledged symphonic orchestra by now!

    Right now, I’m directing my kids in 7 songs to sing for their parents at a performance coming up. Nothing like children’s singing to make ya happy!

    And ah one and ah two and away we go!

    I’m thinking Tuesday is burrito night.

  860. Farsight, that link was fun. Thanks. A stress relief is always good. However, the latest posts are also funny with good humor. Hurry back Helen, the porch is sagging with the waiting souls playing the various instruments. Might be fun to have a M&H band.

  861. Grandma Katie, that was a good one :lol:Rush have children, OMG

    Keith in NM maybe it is time the rest of us, the middle majority, to start yelling!!! Beware of drinking the water as apparently it has strange effects or at least boil the water ;-)

  862. Oh you girls stop with that. Always ripping each others’ looks or style. And we men are accused of only being interested in the physical. She is not unattractive physically. It is her mental state and ideology that is funky.

  863. You have that all right, Maybe we should take away all government employees their free lifetime insurance and their pensions and make them pay the “real” price of insurance and see how long they last in their homes….

  864. Daffy Duck with a canned tan. Ever notice she has the oddest coloring? She has a terrbile aura.

  865. I only wished a very small bad thing – that someone would superglue Michele Bachmann’s lips together. She does look like Daffy Duck, ya know. . .

  866. Children? Are you talking about Rush and some of his ilk? Heaven help us if they produce any!

  867. Funny how the entirety of the GOP forgets that they, yes they, not the Democrats are the party that began the modern progressive movement in this country via Teddy Roosevelt.

    Keith in NM

  868. You know, I welcome an honest debate. It’s how I explore other’s ideas and beliefs. I certainly don’t see myself as infallible or anywhere close to being any sort of an expert on anything. And I’ll admit to not being pleased with the direction our country was headed during the last administration, but I was never ugly, nor did I ever wish bad things for or to happen to any, I mean ANY elected official.

    But what the hell has happened here. Where the hell is the well that these idiots drank from so that I can make sure I avoid that crap?

    Screaming the kind of BS that these idiots are spreading on the air-waves (Rush and his ilk) makes them the laughing stock of the world…. what a legacy for their children and grand children. Can you imagine what it’s like for one of these kids in public school? Not that any self-respecting Republican would allow their children to attend school with the ‘unwashed’.

    Pretty soon the rest of us, the middle majority are going to be yelling out our windows, something like that movie a couple of decades ago, “I’m mad as hell and I just can’t take it anymore, shut the hell up!”

    Keith in NM

  869. By: Delurker Girl Δ on October 6, 2009 at 1:39 PM

    There’s another Carly Simon number that reminds me of H&M’s website

    Nobody does it better
    Makes me feel sad for the rest
    Nobody does it half as good as you
    Baby, you’re the best


  870. You’re so vain, you probably think this blog is about you, don’t you, don’t you, don’t youuuu….!

    Thanks, DeLurker Girl!

  871. ImaginistaΔ, you made me think of this!

  872. Even when you don’t name names, trolls think you’re talking about THEM! Too funny and the perfect illustration of my point.

    I hope Helen posts something new soon. But meanwhile, I’m enjoying the banter and the recipes!

    I think we should change the name of the “scroll funtion” to “troll function” since that is what it is used for most! Hee hee.

  873. You gals are a hoot!

  874. Well, for sheer annoyance, nothing beats the concertina, according to my husband.

    Also have a trumpet, cornet, keyboard, 2 bodhrans (drums – 1 is broken), a couple pennywhistles, 1 cheap guitar and I’m just starting on the harmonica.

    I also sing. Loudly.

  875. Oops!

    Double post. Is it me or the computer? Probably me.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  876. Hi gang and farsight Δ,

    Panic time! The computer/TV/phones crashed last night. But everything is OK this morning.

    Farsight, I’m working on my husband and his hearing aids. He is amenable now to at least looking into the digital ones with the latest technology.

    We are having so much fun with our growing porch band I almost decided not to put this up. Almost.

    I think Craig might consider changing his blog name to GrudgeCollector. He seems to be so proud of the fact that he has learned to ‘cut and paste’. It makes me no never mind one way or the other what or if he says anything about me, but I look askance at a young whippersnapper taking pot shots at my friends. Whenever he gets dry behind the ears, I hope he will join in the band, singing perhaps, even off key!

    I have sung in a number of a cappella choirs and chorale groups but my ego took a beating. (I always wanted to be the glamorous soprano who got the guy or died pitifully trying.) Unfortunately, my natural voice is alto or contralto so they stuck me in the TENOR section, mostly because I could carry a part in harmony. There are never enough tenors. We need more tenors!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  877. Hi gang and farsight Δ,

    Panic time! The computer/TV/phones crashed last night. But everything is OK this morning.

    Farsight, I’m working on my husband and his hearing aids. He is amenable now to at least looking into the digital ones with the latest technology.

    We are having so much fun with our growing porch band I almost decided not to put this up. Almost.

    I think Craig might consider changing his blog name to GrudgeCollector. He seems to be so proud of the fact that he has learned to ‘cut and paste’. It makes me no never mind one way or the other what or if he says anything about me, but I look askance at a young whippersnapper taking pot shots at my friends. Whenever he gets dry behind the ears, I hope he will join in the band, singing perhaps, even off key!

    I have sung in a number of a cappella choirs and chorale groups but my ego took a beating. I always wanted to be the glamorous soprano who got the guy or died pitifully trying. Unfortunately, my natural voice is alto or contralto so they stuck me in the TENOR section, mostly because I could carry a part in harmony. There are never enough tenors. We need more tenors!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  878. Salon fixes the Bible’s liberal bias –


  879. One of my modern theological heroes is Dr. Martin E. Marty http://bit.ly/UCfCe
    Here’s his response to the Conservative Bible Project: “It would be an assault on their own view of “inerrancy” etc. Quaint and paradoxical!”

    So much for the infallible Word of God. (snicker) And for real snickers, go to twitter and search #conservativebible – you’ll laugh!

  880. This is just too funny not to share. Is saw it breaking the other day and knew it was gonna get BIG!

    The Conservative Bible Project

    The eager young men at Conservapedia are p.o.’d that the Bible might be seen as too liberal. So they’ve come up with the Wiki-style Conservative Bible Project, to make sure the Lord doesn’t go all wobbly on us.

    I’m sure Bachmann and Palin are all for it! Watch for this story. It’s gonna go huge. Click thru or look on other blogs, read the comments (make sure you’re not drinking or eating). Better yet go visit some RW blogs for some real laughs.

    Cuz we all know..
    …Jesus was a Republican! ;)

    PEACE ~ Δ

  881. whoa, Farsight Δ, that might be the totally coolest sight I’ve seen in ages. I’ll just ship it off to several choice correspondents of mine. My husband requested a copy, just by sound (he’s in another room and wanted it immediately) No wonder Kyle loves it.

  882. Helen, your writing ranks right up there with my favorite Texan, Molly Ivins. Like her, you cut through the b.s. and tell it like it is. Thank you.

  883. That should have been post vice most.

  884. In addition to my last most and for a little late night entertainment I bring to you the Doo-Wop horses:

    Click on the link below and wait for the entire screen to load up with all four horses and a fence in front of them.
    Then click on each horse. Make sure your sound is on.
    Re-click on any horse to make it turn off or turn it back on again.
    Somebody did some real wizardry of programming to coordinate this!
    Try clicking on the horses from left to right then right to left then just one or two at a time… It’s fun and a good stress reliever. Have fun!


  885. kitkatΔ,

    Sounds like your husband is another one of the good ones. Hooray for him.

    JeanΔ ¥,

    Just remember that the ones at Costco aren’t the Oticons. For the Oticons, you will have to go to another hearing aid dispenser or to an audiologist who carries them. If his last hearing aids were purchased 6-7 years ago, a tremendous leap in technology has happened since then. His are about 2-3 generations old. Hearing aid technology has advanced at a very fast pace. I do hope that if he gets some new ones that he appreciates them as much as I do mine.


    Your chow would be what my wife and I call a heart dog. Our heart dog is 11 and still doing pretty well. He is a very large Belgian Malinois. His biggest noise related trauma is thunder. We leave him and our younger Malinois in a Kennel in our garage during the day. One day I came home to find him loose in the garage and upon further inspection, I found that he had ripped the chain link fence away from the horizontal bar. There was a bunch of blood and I immediately took him to the vet to see if there were any teeth broken or gum damage. He was fine. It even cleaned his teeth a bit. (:->

    We leave music playing when we think it may rain. They really like Classic Rock Oldies. That’s what we tell them anyway.

    One of my favorite things to do is to bring up the Doo-Wop horses on the computer. Kyle comes running and starts barking, howling, mooing and moaning. It is really good for what ails one. I have damn near fell out of my chair laughing. I just went off in search of it again and when I started playing it Kyle was here in about 7 seconds from a different room in the house and joined in. I think he might actually be a good addition to the porch band, but mostly if there is singing.

  886. “Returning both trolls to *ignore mode*” PalinShutUp, priceless!

  887. Spoons! That’s right up there with the saw and washtub! Fabulous.

  888. I learned how to play spoons when I was in college. . . that was fun!

  889. Anyone who plays the washtub bass and/or the bassoon is welcome in my porch band. You can never have too much bass.

    I spent years trying to talk a friend of mine into learning how to play the saw. (I even had the proper saw!) She stuck with the guitar. Wimp.

  890. Hi gang,

    I play classial piano, pipe organ, most percussion instruments and was pressed into playing the f**king bassoon in my high school marching band.

    The past few years I have plucked away on a washtub/stick/rope bass viol with a group of friends for Christmas Carols. Do I qualify to join in on M&H’s musicale? Please say yes.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  891. OK, I’m exaggerating a *little* about the bagpipes. I do own a chanter, and have tried to learn how to play it (I am fairly proficient on a couple of other wind instruments), but I can’t make anything nice come out of that sucker. It sounds like a dying duck.

    We do own quite a lot of instruments though. That’s no exaggeration; nor is the annoyance factor. We used to have a band together. Now, instead, we have a whole room full of stuff (dozens of percussion instruments, numerous guitars, a banjo, a mandolin, a fiddle, etc.)…only about half of which we would ever dare to play in public. None of it’s gathering dust, however. The kids use it all regularly. I’m sure the neighbors just *love* us! :)

  892. Only instrument on which I am proficient, is….. wait…..the kazoo!!!!! I have several in the attic left over from my now grown son. (Do you suppose there’s a collection of musical instrument icons we could use?)
    Now that’s interesting, I’m on Firefox right now which underlines spelling errors as I type, took me 2 tries to figure out it’s not atic. I find my spelling has become atrocious lately. I bet the instant correction is good for one’s deteriorating memory.

  893. Tine, you bring those bagpipes girlfriend! I love bagpipes. . . Scotland the Brave is my ringtone. . . I love the bagpipes and the uileann pipes too!

  894. and I can bring my drums :)

  895. And Craig needs a Time Out.

  896. Wow-what the heck happened here today?
    We are a little snippy aren’t we?

    Maybe Helen and/or Margaret needs to post a new topic? Maybe we need to find our manners and USE them when visiting other people’s porches?

    Helen’s porch needs some cleaning up; we really should tidy up a bit. It’s quite rude to leave crap laying around when someone invites you over. If we all pitch in together, we be finished faster.

  897. Please tell me we aren’t going to be dissing the banjo now. Because if that’s the case, I’m bringing my bagpipes along too. Don’t think I won’t do it!

    (And I’ve got more annoying instruments where those came from….)

  898. HRH Sofia EQ – thank you. I’m more than bit doped up right now. . .but that’s no excuse for my mistake.
    But you made me giggle over my mistake because my stepson plays banjo and that’s become a joke around here,.

    yes folks my own little juvy has landed on a instrument he loves – to the point where I want to run screaming from the house whenever I hear a banjo now. . .but he’s practicing about an hour or more a day. . .so. . .no real complaints here.

  899. Have banjo, will travel. ;)

  900. minor correction, Greytdog, I know you meant STURM and were not talking about banjo playing, though today, here on the porch, most any instrument might improve the humour.

  901. Here’s your mirror…”Soundin mo like Jesse than hiself.” – Craig after he was invited to sit at the table for a slice of pie.

    Craig, I think it is this type of statement that gets you slapped. This isn’t civil and especially not acceptable in this forum. When in Rome…

  902. Craig, you did a nice job of copying words there… but did you go back and review the things YOU said? Really do you not see the responsibility you bear for the things that are said back to you? You provoke people, then get a reaction, then cry foul.

  903. Craig – did you read my rant? I rant a lot. I think everyone gets to a point where they have to rant & rage. . . it’s just that here on the porch, someone will invariably rage back – that’s part of the whole kit & kaboodle or perhaps strum und drang

  904. That pretty much sums up the recent spate of keyboard vomit that’s been messing up the porch here of late. Moral of the story, as always, DON’T FEED THE TROLLS! If you really want to piss them off ignore them completely. No matter how well reasoned your argument, all they see is that they managed to get you to type their name and give them attention. I cannot stress this enough. It is NOT ABOUT DEBATE with these people! They are peckerwoods looking to wood their tiny little peckers by getting a reaction. ANY reaction. And as soon as they get one they are like junkies looking for the next fix. Imaginista_

    Starve the bastards.
    This friendly reminder has been brought to you by the official Margaret and Helen Blog troll dietician!

    Craig, forgive my reluctance to jump back into this fray…. and I will tell you that if you throw it back in my face, don’t expect me to offer you further suggestions…. burn me once, shame on you kinda thing… by Pamela

    Thank you, Craig, for volunteering in an elementary classroom. Special education students are very special to me as well. By Vgman

    Craig, welcome to the pie club!..by _¥ Tine
    Craig, you’re not getting it. Pie isn’t about conservative or liberal, it’s about friendly & respectful companionship. Remember to put down your fork & slice should you choose to go back to your old ways. Delurker Girl _

    Craig, our viewpoints about gay marriage almost dovetail, I only differ about the married man who turned gay, I suspect he was always gay and his wife was a cover, otherwise known in the old days, as a beard. That is such a sad situation for everyone involved, I am so glad that so many gay people decide to be out of the closet. By no one’s puppet_

    And Craig. Dear Craig. Dear kool-aide-drinking Craig. “Csars,” for pete’s sake. It’s a colloquial term, not an official title. Nixon used it. Reagan used it. Bush used it. It’s slang. Get over it. But more important, you come to this blog, write unsubstantiated incendiary things, you bash the people on it, but when you request help, you get a multitude of kind, helpful responses. Doesn’t this tell you something about the people who come to this “liberal” blog? That the like-minded people here think the right thing to do is to help those in need – unlike the “I’ve got mine, screw you” Republicans? (I always find it amazing that these right-winged “Christians” are so hell bent against helping those less fortunate… where’s the Christianity in that?) The point is, these bloggers still found it in their hearts to help you even though you have been quite nasty to them thus far. I’m just sayin’. helenandmargaretFan
    OK, my bad, I’m obviously a northerner. When someone tells me I’m wrong and calls me sweetheart, I’m offended. Craig, bless your heart. Delurker Girl _

    Ho la la! Been gone for a while! I am still wondering what is going on with our newfound friend Craig. I was like is Craig a convert to our ideas on this site? Maybe not? Still trying to figure it out. I do think it is a good sign that the discourse coming from him has turned more civil. by Easier

    I agree Easier. Craig has shown a willingness to really discuss issues and not drop the partyline “speak” so much. Really, it comes down to informed citizens discussing what matters most to us. In this case, it’s a HUGE national discussion trying to fit on a porch. Vgman_

    If you are half as smart as you pretend to be, you should have realized by now that most posters here have a more liberal political bent that does not agree with yours, have a much broader view of the world and are far more generous and more tolerant of alternative views than you appear to be. If you think that you can influence the H&M fans by simply repeating tiresome and banal bumper sticker talking points, you are mistaken and perhaps should post on sites that are more aligned with your ideas. It would be less annoying for all concerned. : jsri

    Do you all see what it happening here…two different mindsets, different opinions being discussed. I think that we need to sort of chill on Craig. He’s entitled to his opinions. We can listen politely, and then go on with our discussion of why we think he’s wrong. We don’t have to get our shorts in a knot over it, encourage him to take a hike, or basically boo and hiss him from the ‘room’. We can respond rationally._We don’t have to be angry when someone doesn’t think as we do. debby

    Craig posts earlier in this thread as though he had heard references to James but never read his posts. They were both posting in the comments of “A Buttload of Moolah!” and I guarantee you that Craig was reading/typing closely.
    I have to give it to him that he is very good at engaging others and gaining trust then spewing all over everyone… manipulative little shit that he is.
    It is my thought that even when he appears to be acting in a reasonable and rational manner it is a deception. He is a troll and best responded to with silence… farsight _




  905. CONSUMER REPORTS supports health care reform.

  906. You know this thread and blog have some interesting and varied views.

    While I ranted a couple of days ago…I just blew.

    At one turn someone offers me a “pie”..and or “fork”..
    The next thing I’m being attacked for being on the site or for agreeing with someone who has a different view than most on this thread.

    The invites for setting a spell, then being attacked make one wonder what is the right answer?

    You either want to share recipes, exchange the latest “You Tube” that rails against your favorite
    villain or pick out someone to be punked.

    On one hand I see people who are genuine in their invites..then there are the ones who want no one of another color. I picked that because you are just as prejudiced as if that person were of a different ethnicity.

    Yes I railed against people of various beliefs..But I was railing out to those who on one hand are so pious that “they” exert their views as being better and are more educated because the web pages they view are the “politically correct” ones.

    Forks, pies, tater salad , whatever.
    There seem to be different camps of believers on this site.
    Some are more acceptable.
    Others just want it to be their personal clique.

  907. Helen – I love you. And for all those so-called Christians I give you a very small but accurate definition of a Christian – “Someone who lives their life Christ like.” Living your life like Christ does not include hate, prejudice, intolerance, bigotry or ignorance.

  908. Thank you Delurker Girl.

  909. Hotmail users may want to change their passwords:


  910. Don’t know if others have seen this, but this is a blog by a woman who has been denied insurance payouts even though she has insurance with CIGNA. She has written to CIGNA repeatably and for this final letter, she is asking others to sign her letter in support. She will blog as she travels to NY to ask in person why they won’t pay to treat her treatable brain tumor.


  911. Hi gang and farsight Δ,

    Thank you so much for the tip about the new hearing aids!!! You are the soul of tact.

    My husband is about due I think. His are Belltones and are 6-7 years old. I’ll wait until he is nice and mellow after we have a lovely dinner of Moussaka this week. Then I’ll tell him all about the digital Oticons and let’s check them out at Costco.

    Thanks again.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  912. Farsight – “Shortly follows a semi shock and awe.”

    Maybe shock, in the sense of ‘shock when a child throws a really bad public tantrum, or starts biting other kids on the playground’. Bad manners are always a little shocking.

    Awe? You’ve got to be kidding. Bullies are lightweights, and internet bullies are the biggest featherweights of all, since they don’t even have to stand toe-to-toe with their intended victims.

    Fireworks and animals – I currently live with a bomb-proof terrier who thinks she’s immortal. However, one of my previous dogs (a rescued abused chow chow, who was the great dog of my life) was petrified and we live 5 blocks from a park with firework celebrations at all the major summer holidays. Not to mention the large number of people in our neighborhood who simply disregard the regulations.

    It came down to our own tradition – Bedroom, doors and windows shut. A/C running full blast and a couple fans, regardless of the weather. TV or video, full blast. And a huge bowl of buttered popcorn.

    I know it’s not good for dogs, but 1 kernel at a time worked wonders. She’d be up on the bed with me. White-eyed, just starting to shake, then “Mmmm, popcornnnn……….” Over and over.

    That was Autumn Bruin, Beta Extraordinare and nurse-chow to the world. Heart ten times the size of her brain and a completely unexpected sense of humor. God, I miss that dog.

  913. A vidieo about private health insurance and how they are just in it for the money.

  914. I really like that Alan Grayson. I think he is a keeper, and would like to see more like him in our government. I wondered where he came from, so as I was researching, I ran across this article from Vanity Fair from Nov 2007. This will give some insight into some practices of our private contractors in Iraq:


  915. Joe Pa (Penn State) doesn’t even allow the players to have their name on the back of their Jersey.. ;-) I love Joe pa… and Pa Folks.. ;-)

    there is no I in team.. ;-)

  916. farsight, your wife has the right idea and is a great example. One of my husband’s teams is a high school girl’s team and they rarely win (they need to drop down a level but the State won’t let them). But they have a great time on the field and still learn so much about the game. When they’ve had a good game together, they come off the field in a good mood, regardless of the score.

    jrsi, your son sounds wonderful and his approach to coaching sounds like my husband’s. You should be so proud of him. This is the type of coaching that should happen. My husband tries to give equal playing time and sometimes plays players out of position to develop them into better players. That is his focus. The parents are focused on time played and what position they think their son should play. I really think he would love to ban several of the parents from watching the games, esp. the ones who yell and “coach” from the sidelines. He confronts these folks too. Parents want their son to be the star, and don’t realize it is about the TEAM.

    When my husband first started with this club they paired him with a head coach that yelled and screamed and belittled the kids. My husband couldn’t take how the kids were being treated and told the director of coaching to move him to another team and why. The screaming coach is no longer with the club. You wouldn’t believe how many parents were angry about this as the screaming coach had a winning record. They didn’t care how their children were treated as long as the team won.

  917. heh, watching Mad Men tonight there was a line that went something like this ‘in politics there is a game we play if we cant get something done we delay it for a long long time’

    sound familiar folks? things haven’t changed.

    About those fireworks they are not only dangerous to pets and children but often set off by drunks who aim them at home roofs. We usually have a couple of devastating fires in the city because of them.

  918. jsri,

    If I had had a coach like that, I would have learned to love team sports. My dad certainly wasn’t a problem in this area as he was going to love me no matter what!!! As it is, I tend to gravitate towards sports like running, swimming, circuit training and horseback riding. I really have never even liked to play volleyball as some participants take what is supposed to be a fun game and make it way to serious.

    I don’t know whether your family is the hugging sort. But you could give your son (and even Mick, if the relationship allows) a great big hug from a guy that would have appreciated someone like them back in the early 60s. They are doing exactly what it should be about for that age group.

    I am agnostic but I think the way I feel about your son, Mick and your sons past coach is best summed up by saying, God bless them every one!

  919. JeanΔ ¥,

    Concerning hearing aids:

    My hearing aids are of the new digital behind the ear variety. Most people can’t even tell that I am wearing them. The tube going from the top of the ear into the canal is so fine you must be very close to see it. They are top of the line digital Oticons and they very nearly replicate natural hearing. I am amazed!!!

    They are also very expensive (around $6000). All is not lost though because you live in Hawaii, and you have Costco. They have there own brand (I do believe they are Kirkland Signature) that are about half that amount. I think they very nearly replicate mine and the reports I get from my friends who have them are that they love them.

    While I am going to say that hearing aids are one thing that you really can’t scrimp on features/latest technology, you don’t have to buy the name brand to experience the upside of some of the latest improvements.

    Tell him that he can still turn them down or take them out when communication causes more stress that the lack thereof. (:->

  920. Hi gang and jsri,

    There is lots of good advice here on flu and about taking care of ourselves and each other.

    jsri, like you, we are all set with Medicare and our supplemental insurance except for dental, vision and of course hearing aids.

    After a blizzard of paperwork, we got the final bill for my series of Prednisone Epidural Shots in July at the hospital. I think the original bill was somewhere in the neighborhood of five grand. We pay, $15.02. Whew! The hospital made an ‘adjustment’ somewhere along the way and I seriously doubt it’s because I am a ‘Sweet Little Old Lady’ they like. You don’t suppose the message about Health Care Costs is being heard do you?

    Now if Obama can just get medical records and the insurance people to clean up their act and digitize, the paper from millions of trees could be saved. I guess the billing would still have to be mailed though. If that were eliminated, between the junk mail and those bills, the United States Post Office would fold……Another ‘Socialist’ government bureaucracy would bite the dust.

    On to hearing aids. My husband has a hearing loss similar to yours, jsri; mostly from the roar of B-47 jet engines in the Air Force, 1953-56. He has worn hearing aids for 25+ years. They are not all they are cracked up to be; batteries, adjustments, cleaning and sooner or later, replacements. $$$$$ There is an up side however.

    Any time I have a screechy operatic soprano going on the stereo, he just turns his hearing aids down. If I get after him nagging about something, he glares at me, reaches up, takes them off and puts them in his pocket. End of discussion. His hearing aids have not made it through the washer-dryer cycle – – – yet. If there is the least little unfamiliar noise in the night, you have to peel me off the ceiling! He blithely snoozes away.

    As we all know, if one sense is diminished or lost, the others compensate. He has learned, probably unconsciously, to read lips very well. IN FRENCH, no less! Sheesh. Recently the President of France, Sarcozy (?), was speaking on TV in French about the current Iranian crisis. (I don’t know how to spell the man’s name.) A translator was giving a simultaneous English translation. My husband blurted out, “That’s NOT what he said!” Huh?

    Small nuances in language, both spoken and written can have quite different meanings.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  921. farsight Δ on October 4, 2009 at 9:02 PM

    For almost 40 years I paid for health insurance that I rarely utilized. But when I retired about 15 years ago I was able to add Medicare to the list. They ten years ago, I had a number of issues that without these coverages, would have put us in the poor house.

    Like you I have always had good relationships with my health care providers especially those over the past 20 years. Interestingly, the very best among them are the females. They listen.

    I just wish everyone could have the same level of services that I have used over the years and anyone who has read previous postings I have made on this subject know that I would be happy to pay more into the system if it meant that every one in the country could be treated the same way.

  922. KitKat and Farsight

    When our son played Little League baseball 40 years ago, he had a coach who never yelled at his players. And no matter how well or how poorly a kid played, the coach always had something complimentary to say by way of encouragement. Now that our son is a coach and manager of a Little League team, he runs the ship in pretty much the same way. But unlike some coaches who think that winning is the only reason for playing, our son’s philosophy is basically, that we are nor here to create winners, we are here to teach kids how develop their talents and to work as a team. Once they understand those concepts, the wins come naturally.

    And he has some inflexible rules. Every kid who comes to play gets to play. The league has limits on the number of pitches a kid can throw so that he is not in danger of harming his arm. This drives some go-go type parents bonkers when he has to take a player off the mound but he ignores them. Also, he allows no trash talk or dugout bitching, and an umpire’s decisions are not questioned.

    A couple years ago, he teamed up with another coach, Mick, who once played AAA ball but had a rotator cuff injury that ruined his throwing. Like our son, Mick loves to teach kids strategy and when positioning players on the field, he not only tells them what to do but also why they are doing it. When I questioned Mick about doing that (because the opposing team can also hear the strategy) Mick’s answer was that he was there to teach kids how to play the game and that included the opponents as well. Sometimes even the umpires get into the act.

    Their biggest problem is mouthy parents, especially those sitting on the sidelines telling their own kid to do something that may be contrary to what the coaches are teaching. Mick is not beyond challenging parents who do this because the tension it creates in the kid’s mind can sometimes be paralyzing. It is interesting that when they have a dropout, it is most likely one who had a helicopter parent in the stands. Yet these are the parents who bitch loudest about the coaching but when asked if they would like to participate always have something better to do.

    For me it has been a treat watching these kids as they progress through the various levels and how they develop into competent ball players each with their own strengths. But more important, it is a pleasure watching them work as a team.

  923. AmericanΔ,

    You said, “The only reason I get the influenza shot is because of Mitral Valve prolapse. The rest of my ‘issues’ are structural. I have to pre-med before dental procedures.”

    I can relate. I have had to take prophylaxis before dental procedures (and others) since about 1987. I was diagnosed with a stenotic aortic heart valve when I was 33. Never had a murmur before that and I had had work related physicals every year. My valve was bicuspid and the echo cardiograms indicated that I would be having a valve replacement within 3 – 10 years. Closer to 3. I had my valve replaced in 1991. Thank God for Group Health Co-op of Puget Sound. I am very fortunate to have had a good job and excellent insurance.

    My cardiologist wants me to have the flu shots. There is another shot that was mentioned earlier in this thread or the previous one that is good for several years that he wanted me to get (pneumonia maybe).

    I love my health care providers and my insurance provider, and I wish that all could have the same. Hey, I’ve got mine. Wish everyone else could have the same. I do not understand greedy selfish bastards that are jealous of anyone maybe getting something more than they are getting or begrudging them even getting something comparable.

  924. Troll plays pity card. The reasonable side I pointed out. Shortly follows a semi shock and awe. Not much of a shock and awe unless you consider the general forum sensibilities.

  925. kitkatΔ,

    You said, “As a soccer coach, my husband deals with parents who think that unless the team wins, it was all a complete waste of time. This idea gets passed on to the kids. No one always wins, and some people sure are poor losers.”

    This made me think.

    I have got to be married to one of the best women in the world. She trials our dogs in rally, obedience and agility. There are many times when she and her dog do not qualify (Q). However, she is mostly into it for the fun of it and the love of her dogs loving what they’re doing (and believe me they love it, especially agility – like an amusement park for dogs). There are many times when she and her dog doesn’t Q, but she could care less because she felt so in tune with her dog and if felt so right. Conversely, there are times they don’t only Q but take first in their class and she doesn’t feel as good about it because she and her dog just weren’t ‘on’. Not to say that she doesn’t mind winning but it is not her highest priority. I see this as a strength of character!

    I am somewhat the same way in my endeavors and am not that competitive (probably due to peewee league baseball as a kid and all the ill behaved parents). My wife, however, has brought it home by example and living with that has made me a better person.

  926. Delurker Girl Δ

    More like the letter from the doctor says my
    Thyroid has shut down..thus the weight gain
    lethargy..and even though I do two miles a day
    and therapy for back pain to boot.

    So I will see Doc sometimes this week.
    Need no fork as appetite is down
    thanks anyway…I understand message.

  927. When I was growing up overseas, we lived next door to an agricultural research station (this was during the Green revolution in Asia). Near our land were lots of young coffee plants that were being grown to see if coffee could become a viable cash crop in the Philippines mountains. . . 4th of July is not a big holiday there but new year’s is HUGE. And everything goes. My brother & I were awful delinquents. . .we strapped bottle rockets to about 20 young coffee plants. . . and whoosh! coffee beans rained down from the sky. . . just as my dad walked outside to make sure we weren’t having sparkler fights. . .omigod. the wrath of god descended with a swift and mighty hand. . . we spent several weeks atoning for our sins by helping pick strawberries (another experimental crop) and planting rice terraces (backbreaking work that one). . . sigh. We also had to pay for the plants which meant months and months of cleaning chicken coops & the goat pens. . .

  928. Sa3w “Invention of Lying” which had me laughing out loud about the Big Man in the Sky! Hit the nail on the head in several areas. I won’t say any more until others have seen it.
    As far as the resident FUX trolls, I don’t hear anything new, but I sure do smell something foul..

  929. Greytdog,

    I’ll give you Halloween, but for the all time holiday that I hate the most, it has to be the 4th of July. It’s not because of what it stands for; I love that. It is the way it is celebrated.

    My county allows the purchase and firing off of fireworks. Our 2 dogs and cats are relatively OK with it (our 11 year old dog is showing a little more fear but a couple of Benadryl fix that) and our horses, where we have them boarded, do alright. We have many friends with dogs they love as much as we do ours. It is just heart wrenching to see how these dogs react to the fireworks. I would be willing to pay $1000 of my own money to make personal firework displays illegal in this county. I have felt this way for many years, but this year was the clincher.

    One of our neighbors caused about $10,000 worth of damage to our property. Their were witnesses but offending neighbor(s) never would come out and admit to it. They said enough to peg them but just wouldn’t own their stuff. Thank god for homeowners insurance.

  930. I love Halloween and hate the scum of the earth that abuse animals using any excuse, including Halloween

    vgman you cracked me up, somehow I pictured you a, well, a man and if you are a man and you dressed up like palin that’s even a bigger hoot! LOL!!

  931. My daughter just informed me she is being deployed for an animal rescue mission for four days. She is certified as an animal rescue volunteer. Interesting that they now do not tell them where they are going just the climate and time so they can pack accordingly. She also does “leg transport”for animal rescues. Way too many sad stories.

  932. Greytdog, growing up our doctor always prescribed tea, honey and brandy. In fact he made up his own brew and dispensed it in case some parents were not into drinking.Hope you feel better soon. I rely on my Jewish friends to send me chicken soup and matzoh balls. Usually have it in my freezer. One friend arrived on the plane with two frozen packages.

    Tamiflu will work on H1V1 but not on the regular flu.
    I also had the the Hongkong flu in 1968 and since then I have never had a case of the flu or a flu shot. I have many allergies and stay away from any vaccine. Check out latex allergies and mercury reactions with the flu shot. Yes there are needles without latex but you have to ask for them. My side effect is serum sickness which results in crippling joint pain. Frankly I would rather have a case of the flu than serum sickness which is only cured by long term treatment of predisone. Bad news is I have the same problem with antibiotics so I just have to live a healthy life ;-) Zinc and vitamin C work wonders on me. Does anyone else use “Coldeeze” (sp)

  933. Drat, Halloween is on a Saturday this year, that usually means more pranksters. My cats are housecats and will spend the evening sleeping on a climber in the cat room, with the door shut.

  934. AmericanΔ
    You are correct. You’re supposed to write it the way you see it in this sentence.

    I’m sorry for the dastardly deeds some idiots put you through on Halloween. Cruelty to animals escpecially hits home when you love pets.

    Kind of like on the Fourth of July–our two dogs hate that night and we are usually gone. They get extra treats for a few days.

  935. oh–Delurker: Oily Taitz filed the most incredibly nuts response to Judge Land’s order to show cause why he shouldn’t sanction her. She claims he needs to recuse himself (a largely verbatim motion she’s filed already against another judge who disagreed with her–dismissed out of hand there and won’t fare any better here). Judge Land will deny her motion to recuse, give her a very short time to response to his previous order to show cause, and sanction her sorry ass.

  936. Or man boobs, Delurker Girl.

  937. Greytdog–you are so right. I am involved with a breed rescue but also give as much as I can to other rescues. Every night I tell my dogs and cats that they are loved and appreciated and that they will never be hurt or lost or scared.

  938. Gotta watch when you take a bite of pie around here–almost choked with laughter on that one, Delurker!

  939. Craig, you should put down that fork & slice. I hear eating in an irrational state makes it go straight to your hips.

  940. vgmanΔ-I did use that correctly, didn’t I? LOL
    I had to go back and re-read my post.

    When I receive email at work from ‘professional’ co-workers and I cringe hoping they don’t converse with outsiders the same way they do internally-especially our Customer Service and Marketing reps-egads!

    The only reason I get the influenza shot is because of Mitral Valve prolapse. The rest of my ‘issues’ are structural. I have to pre-med before dental procedures.

  941. Greytdog, I like Lori’s advice. I hope you’re on the mend soon!

  942. I hate Halloween. I usually spend my evening responding to vet ER calls of abused black cats & dogs. . .not pretty. last year some village idiot set the tail of pretty black arab filly on fire. . .luckily she literally dropped & rolled putting out the fire but we still have months and months of rehab and bandage changes before she was healed. She’s still skittish with a lot of folks. I hate Halloween.

  943. vgmanΔ,

    I am still brushing up on 9/11. There is much coming out due to the Freedom of Information Act. There are a lot of credible sources organizing efforts to get a new investigation.

    I am familiar with David Ickes, and have his site bookmarked. Most folks think he’s a loon. He has an interesting perspective and is very intelligent. He is well-versed in the the Illuminati and tracing the bloodlines of the bluebloods and royals. The alien/shapeshifting/lizard/ thing is interesting. I do believe in the supernatural. The bible does say that angels had sex with human women. That is all I will say on that.

  944. PSU–you gave me a laugh because I imagined Sarah Palin spraying her nose in public and shouting, “get outta my way, rogue comin’ through!”
    Not that you resemble her or anything…..I wouldn’t know.
    She was my inspiration for Halloween last year. What a hoot! I kept running away from McCain all night! And I carried an oversized stuffed moose.
    I leave the last hours of this weekend with a loud
    (I can’t believe I just stated that Sarah Palin was my inspiration…..but you know what I mean in a strange, peculiar way)

  945. I keep saying Im going to get the flu shot but never do, last year was the first time I came down with norwalk


    but I feel that was because I let my guard down, I was not taking care of myself

    If Im eating right, doing my yoga, walking, drinking lots of fluids, taking zinc and C

    I also have a ritual where I spray my nose with saline while in public…I never get sick

  946. AmericanΔ
    Just a note on your use of “supposed to”.
    Whenever I see my students write “suppost to”
    I drop everything immediately and go to the whiteboard!

    Besides the miraculous pho soup (which I actually seek out by shopping around for it–so many pho restaurants in Seattle), I also drown myself in a few gallons of orange juice. After a few days, I feel like a citrus fruit with a straw in my ear!

    Hey Poolman,
    Your new avatar photo is the spitting image of one of my colleagues. His thinking seems similar to yours as well–he spent a few years in the Peace Corps. Do you have any new conspiracy theories to chew on? I always enjoy your posts and links. Did you ever hear the one about Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Phillip being aliens?
    Was it David Ickes?

    Am invited to a dinner tonight, so I’m off to make some ham, cream cheese, and pepper wraps!

  947. I hope everyone that goes for these vaccines is aware of the potential consequences that do occur. My wife always goes for the flu shot and I never do. At least in my state, they are not mandantory yet. I rarely get sick. She used to all the time. But now we eat much healthier and she rarely gets sick. This site is dedicated to awareness. It is important to be informed.


  948. pardon the momentary recap

    james first comes claiming over and over how ‘fabulous’ and smart palin is, how much better than Obama and how wrong I was when I posted about the bigots, hate…spewing out of those tea parties

    notice how he seemed to ignore that little tid bit

    he starts making small talk/chit chat, trying to be-friend some and tries splitting the group of folks who regularly post here by telling some ‘how wonderful they are’ and insulting others

    divide and conquer much?

    after Ted Kennedy dies he posts umpteen times flogging Ted Kennedy for something that happened decades ago (parroting Rush…) as if ‘he’ has the right to judge TK at the heavenly gates


    now he comes back periodically peeing all over M&H to gloat and goad every single time he finds fault in Obama, how ‘right’ he is, how fabulous palin is…

    what ever dude, kiss my ass

    returning both trolls to *ignore mode*

  949. And Greytdog,

    If I wasn’t deathly allergic to your 20 lb cat, I would trade you for our gassy dog who INSISTS on laying next to me on the floor.

  950. NOP-that’s OK-no big deal. I don’t freak out or anything. I was really just curious how the two illnesses became interchangeable. They have different symptoms and the duration of each illness varies.

    Greytdog: hope you feel better soon. I remember when I was little; I had the “Hong Kong” flu. I have no idea what that was supposed to mean. I think it was in the late 1960′s. I know I was pretty sick and I missed school-which I hated, so I was probably glad.

    vgmanΔ-just so you know: I feel your pain with the homophones, grammar, spelling and punctuation. I see it all the time on Facebook, here and other blogs I follow.

    PEOPLE: Life is not just one big run-on sentence. Use a comma, semi colon and a period!! Use spell check! Use the correct spelling, correct tense of a word; learn to type. It is not that difficult. I mean it. REALLY!

  951. Kitkat – you are so right about “Damned if you do…” If Obama had NOT got to Copenhagen, the right wing would be “screeding” about how he’s not willing to go the extra mile for our economy or some such. We all know that’s true. but the fact that there were cheers here because Chicago did not win the bid – This is disgusting. it’s just sickening how many people subscribe to the Limb-O ‘I hope Obama Fails’ way of thinking. Never mind how much the country lost because we did not get the Olympics, never mind if Obama ‘fails’ the country is the worse for it…’Our guy didn’t win so let’s be sore losers and do everything we can to undermine the winner.’

    And I’ll just bet these people call themselves patriots.

  952. today’s menu: homemade chicken matzoh ball soup, & yes, I did order in the hot & sour soup too! I may go for the lemongrass pho from the vietnamese restaurant tonight. . .

    no one’s puppet – my cardiologist said absolutely no to both the regular flu vaccine and the H1N1 vaccine. My heart condition is such that he’s worried I would be in the miniscule percentile of folks who would have a fatal “adverse” reaction. . . right now, I’m willin’ to chanc