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Posted by: Helen Philpot | July 21, 2009

Rush Limbaugh is Bigger than Walter Cronkite

helen-mug1 Margaret.  Forgive me honey for I have sinned…  I realize now that President Obama is not perfect.  I was wrong to suggest that Obama would rid the world of evil and walk on water while doing it.  I was wrong to believe he was the Messiah.  I can now say that he is not the smartest human to have ever lived and quite frankly he throws like a girl.  Whew.  That feels good to get off my chest.

I am a big enough woman to admit when I am wrong.  But there is one thing wrong with all of this.  I never said any of those things in the first place and neither did any Democrat  I know.   I never said he was perfect.  I never expected him to solve all the problems of the world.  And I know lots of women who can throw a ball  better than most men.   I recognize that he is human and I am sure most people in their right minds know that as well.  But you would never know any of this if you listen to Rush Limbaugh.  Evidently we Democrats are deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to Obama. 


I am not giving Obama a free pass.  I’m giving him a chance.  He has four years to “make it or break it” as they say.  And considering what George Bush did to it, breaking it is the least of our worries.  Healthcare in the United State is broken.  Our reputation around the globe is broken.  The banks are broken.  The tax system… the school systems… the environment - all broken.  Someone needs to try and fix it.  So why not Obama?

When George Bush was President I didn’t want him to fail.  I wanted him to stop acting like an idiot.  I wanted him to be honest and listen to the debate of the people.   I didn’t expect him to act like a Democrat.   I expected him to act like an American.  And I expected him to at least try to keep his campaign promises.  Instead what we got was a moron of a President who crawled up Dick Cheney’s ass and lived there for 8 years.

If all Rush Limbaugh can do is wish for Obama to fail and talk about what is wrong with America, then what’s the use of giving him airtime everyday?  After 20 years hasn’t he made his point?  If he had been right about anything along the way then certainly he would appeal to more than just angry white men or at the very least been promoted to FM radio.  

Yesterday the Rush Limbaugh Show suggested that Walter Cronkite was just another liberal journalist who was responsible, evidently, for the deaths of 10,000 American soldiers during the Vietnam War.  What in the world will it be tomorrow?  Mother Theresa was selfishly hoarding food that otherwise could have ended world hunger?  Seriously, Rush.  It’s getting old.  Eventually the sky has to be blue in your world. 

Or does it?

Can you believe that 72 percent of Republicans have a favorable approval rating of Sarah Palin?  The woman quit mid-stream and even that didn’t knock her off the pedestal.  I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, Margaret.  After all his listeners agree with him on healthcare reform.  Rush Limbaugh,  a man who will never have to worry about the cost of insurance and  admits to a prescription drug addiction, actually wants to challenge Obama on healthcare reform.  Really? I am just stunned.  And now they attack Walter Cronkite … the most trusted man in America… Uncle Walter.   I guess the Americans with Disabilities Act needs to be revisited again to include “Republican” as a form of mental impairment because this has gotten out of hand.  And I will gladly give up my  mobility impaired classification and the great parking space that goes with it to make room for them.

Let me tell you about Walter Cronkite.   Besides being sexier than Rush will ever be, Cronkite was someone you could respect even if you didn’t agree with him.  He knew the difference between news and opinion and was quick to announce when he had switched from one to the other.  Each evening for years he brought millions of Americans together to know and better understand the world around them.  He was a man’s man who wasn’t offensive to women – unlike Rush who is an ass’s ass who couldn’t pay a woman to respect him… and I am sure he has tried.

In 1970, Cronkite received a “Freedom of the Press” George Polk Award.  In 1981, the year he retired, Jimmy Carter awarded Cronkite the Presidential Medal of Freedom.  In 1985, Cronkite was honored with the induction into the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences Hall of Fame.  In 2006 Cronkite became the first non-astronaut to receive NASA’s Ambassador of Exploration Award.  Cronkite’s numerous awards included four Peabody awards for excellence in broadcasting.  Admittedly Cronkite was no Rush Limbaugh.  Thank God.

Rush has made an entire career out of never admitting when he is wrong, and I find that very funny because Rush is the biggest person I know.  Literally. 

I mean it.  Really.

margaret-mug1 Helen, dear, we can certainly agree on one thing for sure. Walter Cronkite was a very sexy man. I  tell you, he was the Anderson Cooper of his day. He could melt my butter each and every evening.   He could toast my bread on both sides.   He could float my boat, row it out to sea, and wait for it to return with the tide any day of the week.  Although, I’m not quite sure what that means, I do know that Walter Cronkite was a real man.  And, my dear Helen, that’s the way it is…

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  9. LOL Debbie…
    What bunker have you been hiding in?
    It has passed… tiny baby steps… not near what we need but it passed.
    Come on out into the sunshine and fresh air… fresh tea and pie available on M & H’s porch here

  10. Helen and your friend. You’d better hang on to those electric wheel chairs cause that’s the last thing, being your age, that you will recieve from the govt. if the health reform is passed!

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  12. Margaret I love your writing style and your grit. Great good stuff. Its unfortunate that what you say sounds like “stick it to ‘em” writing, because its merely factual.

    Anyway good job.

    I’ve been ranting about W and Cheney for years. Rush Limp paugh (or as I like to call him , The Fat Fascist) works against the common weal.

    Sad that people turn to him.

    They should turn to you! (and … well … me!)

  13. [...] [...]

  14. You are very right. Walter Cronkite was an excellent reporter. And calling Rush Limbaugh an ass’s ass about made me fall off my chair with laughter!
    And if either one of you ever gets to meet Anderson Cooper, will you please, please, please take me with you? Like you said Margaret, he can melt my butter and toast my bread on both sides.
    Thank you, both, for creating this blog. You are wonderful!

  15. [...] Octogenerian Rush Clobbering with Margaret and Helen Helen: Rush Limbaugh, a man who will never have to worry about the cost of insurance and admits to [...]

  16. [...] [...]

  17. Kathleen, Open Congress has all the proposed legislation there to read. It is neither a dem or a rep site. It is not run by the WH. That is only 1 place it is posted. I have read HR3200. I do not support it. It is not the legislation we need, and I have spoken out against it. Congers supports HR676, a single payer plan. It is a more concise bill and only 30 pages.

    As far as broken promises, if you expected instant results, then you should be disappointed. We are still expecting Obama to make good his promises. Or at least give a reason as to why he changed his mind, if he has, on any issue. He has only been in office for 6 months and things do not budge very easily in our government. Much has been put in motion and much more is being studied to determine how it needs to be addressed. No one gets a free pass. I do not give Obama a free pass. He has to prove himself daily. I don’t think you are seeing things clearly. It may be due to where you chose to gather your information. There are a lot of people giving out misinformation out there. You should not drink from only one well.
    There is a lot of paranoia out there about citizens reporting on other citizens. I don’t know what that is all about. I think that there are those that are out there trying to disrupt any progress and don’t have any other motivation except to create chaos. The prior administration secretly listened in and spied on all of us. Our private emails and phone calls were all monitored in the name of homeland security. It was all done in secrecy. Doesn’t that bother you?

  18. Poolman,

    Thanks for your response. However, I was surprised that you didn’t comment on the WH requesting citizens report on other citizens. Is this what you voted for? Not me.

    Those links you gave are, IMO, not true transparency but what the government wants you to know. What I consider transparency is for obama to do what he promised during the election, not sign any bill before it was posted for 48 hours on the internet for citizens to read. That has yet to happen and I’m wondering why that doesn’t bother you.

    I also don’t understand why the stimulus bill was similarly rushed through congress with the dire warning from obama himself that if it wasn’t passed immediately, there would be economic major consequences and when they rushed it through, obama promptly flew to Colorado and didn’t sign the bill until the following week, 5 days later.

    Why all the free passes for reniging on this promise? When did “trust” become the only ingredient necessary for a politician? The whole point of “checks and balances” was precisely because the Founders knew that a democracy would not last long if it was based on “trust” alone.

    As a citizen, I feel it is my duty to want answers to why obama has not complied with posting of important bills on the internet for citizens to review and debate. This was the “new kind of politics” obama was going to bring to the WH, but he’s acting worse than bush when it comes to passing legislation that neither he, nor anyone in Congress has fully read, much less given a chance for “we, the people” to read them. Even Congressman Conyers says the bill is unintelligible and would require 2 attorneys to make any sense of the bill. Is that acceptable to you?

    These broken promises are only the tip of the iceberg. Following is a link to an article listing more obama broken promises. I wonder if Hillary or any other politician for that matter, had made all these grandiose promises would she be given a free pass, as obama is getting by you and others on this site:


  19. Good Morning Kathleen. Just read your comment and I agree with what you are saying to a degree. I saw the same type of stuff going on from the other side when Bush was in office. I think you are just seeing it from the other side now and so it seems foreign to you. Please notice that you capitalize everyone except the name of our president in your comment and that alone gives an indication, whether intentional or subconsciously, of your allegiance. I do see more transparency now. Try this site http://www.opencongress.org/ and even http://www.whitehouse.gov/ You can easily find out what is going on behind the scenes. I was republican and voted that way until 2004. Now I am independent and I did vote for Obama. This country needs much repair. Much damage has been done this past decade to weaken our standing and power in the world. Healing and repair will be slow and difficult. No man or woman is perfect on this earth. I feel that Obama is sincere in his desire to rebuilt our great nation. Others were on a crusade to change the world in their image. Much was done secretively. Some we will never know about. Some will continue to be brought into the light. The world sees us now trying to restore our integrity. That alone should indicate to you we are on a better path.

  20. Honolulu Sally, Ann and Donna,

    First, thanks Sally for your kind words. I only wish the same sense of “fair play” you are willing to give obama had been available to both Hillary and Sarah Palin during the election season!

    I refuse to engage in the hatred that was exhibited towards these two women because many believed it was “cool” to support the first black man for president and felt obliged to attack anyone who did not support him or who, God forbid, supported the McCain/Palin ticket. America as a whole is not extreme left any more than its extreme right.

    I watched with great disappointment at the so-called progressive community as it attacked one of its own — Hillary — in order to protect obama, no matter what he said or did, and even attacked with great vitriol those of us who supported Hillary instead. What happened to the tolerance and respect progressives are supposed to have towards those who have a different opinion?

    What frightens me more is how silent the progressive community is now that the obama administration is asking for citizens to report to the White House any “fishy” information they hear or see either on the internet or in their e-mails and asiking them to send the “questionable” information to the White House. If this had been GW Bush, the progressives would have had a field day protesting and expressing their outrage. And rightly so. This is hypocrisy of the worst kind because progressives have always fought against such behavior by any administration. What makes this administration any different that they are allowed to do this without question?

    Amazingly, any criticism or questioning of this administration causes people to just unload on you as if you are “unpatriotic” and a terrible person for daring to express your honest opinion. Again, that’s not the America I was born in and it’s not the America I wish to die in.

    DISSENT IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE PATRIOTIC in this country and I refuse to give it up to be considered “cool” and accepted into the obama clique. I didn’t like cliques in high school and I particularly don’t like them now, as an adult! I just don’t feel obliged to trust obama on everything, and to ignore the evidence which shows that he has either flip-floped on a major campaign promises or is not being totally straightforward in his selling of his policies — such as healthcare and has not changed the tone of politics, nor transcended race nor adhered to being a transparent administration at all.

    Blind allegiance to ANY politician is the beginning of the end of democracy. Just ask the German people if that’s an outrageous statement.

  21. Of course Rush is bigger than Walter…. just look at his gut!

    Keith in NM

  22. Lori, you sanctimoniously wrote that you don’t dirty your hands by arguing with right wing liars. Yet everything you wrote after “I SAID” is a lie or overstatement.

    Walter Cronkite was a good reporter who tried to hide his real feelings in the interests of impartiality. We need more like him.

  23. If the news were a religion, then Walter Cronkite was a Patron Saint who stood guard at the portals of the national and global information frontier and taught us the meaning and value of the nation and world beyond our neighborhood. And we were all parishioners of that religion. Too bad some people, like Rush, played hooky and missed the most valuable lessons of life ever taught by someone humbled with responsibility to educate a Nation in its’ values.

  24. My first time to your blog, but I must say, I’m impressed. Will check out the other pages.

    Oh yeah… Rush is so much bigger than Walter

  25. I SAID:
    I am sure not EVERY person in attendance at those rallies are pissed that a black/biracial individual/s inhabits the White House. However I am POSITIVE that is the intent behind the organizers of that movement, and the attendees are either ignorant participants , or cowards who are willing to look the other way to further their individual crusade. For some it is to push their personal religious agenda, for others it is to preserve their golden nest egg, but make no mistake whatever their reason, it is NOT for the purpose of lowering taxes for the middle class.

  26. Greytdog, I have been able to get an MRI scan in the United States for myself also. The point of the 20/20 piece was that The Canadian system is not able to provide timely care in many cases. The animal care system is presumably still private. Stossel used the MRI to dramatically illustrate his point.

    I called Iowa Senator Harkin’s office this morning. This time, I asked his rep what they know about the French system and HB 676. Silence. I explained my point, and there was more silence. I think he was writing something. He finally said he will certainly share my information with the Senator. Then, the man asked me to repeat my name and address as well as my phone number. He repeated it again to be sure he got the information right. Either I got through to him and he will check what I said, or black helicoptors will soon circle our farm.

    Thanks for sharing your kayak ride. A big vanilla ice cream cone sounds like a nice way to end the trip. I can see why you are all looking forward to the weekend.

    I am picking beans and sweet corn. Big crops this year.

  27. James I can get an MRI for my dog today. Never a problem. And I don’t live in Canada. I can also, if I needed to, get a CATscan, an ultrasound, and start chemo/radiation for my dog/cat. So Stossel’s point is nothing more than sophistry & comparing apples to oranges.

    On a lighter side (in tone, not tonnage), Willie the newfie had a great test practice. He towed a rowboat for one mile, towed me & the kayak for about a mile, and then did resistance swimming for about 30 minutes. Afterwards, his reward was playtime with my retriever. We ended up his session with a nice big vanilla ice cream cone from Brewsters! His next water trial practice will be this weekend – when we head to the beach.

  28. Villanious Company writes that Congress’s health insurance plan gives them access to a national network of doctors as well as several HMOs that serve each member’s home state. Lawmakers also get special treatment at Washington’s federal medical facilities.

    Taxpayers spent $15 billion last year to insure 8.5 million federal workers and their dependents. In contrast 85% of private companies provide their employees with one plan. Take it or leave it.

    The federal coverage surpasses that enjoyed by 70 million Americans who are under insured and at financial risk in the vent of a major health crisis, not to mention the estimated 46 million who have no medical insurance.

    If the proposed plan is so good, why don’t they save some money by canceling theirs and enrolling in the new one? Or as Rep Lee Terry of Nebraska suggested, simply enroll us all in the government employee’s plan?

  29. Most of the TEA Party activists are more conservative than I, but you take your friends where you can find them.

  30. Lori, I was writing letters to the editor about Bush’s and Congress’s heavy spending, and I called my representatives about the first Bush stimulus bill. Other people were too. The TEA Party began as a grass roots movement with strong libertarian leanings after the last stimulus bill put us into new territory. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

    I am judging only on what I experienced and not what anyone else said or wrote.

    My wife, several relatives and I attended the April 15 TEA Party. My cousins have been at more than one. I can assure you such blanket statements about the protesters are false. Hispanics and Asians attended the one in Omaha. Since our family is tri -racial, I take special humbridge at the implication we are racists because we attended a protest.

    The protests likely attracted nasty people as all including the anti -war movement do, and maybe the protests were different in other parts of the country. However, from my experience, your two middle paragraphs are lies. I’m not accusing you of lying, but the people who provided your information were not telling the truth. This is beyond my opinion. That they fed you a pack of lies is fact as it relates to Omaha and Des Moines.

    Go to a protest and see for yourself.

  31. Thanks UAW Tradesman, I find it very interesting. The cool summer in the eastern half of the country has played havoc with the wheat crop, and it may delay the maturity of corn and soy beans too. I didn’t know it was that bad in Michigan.

    One of our daughter’s college friends’ parents live near Ogallala, Nebraska, and she always returns to help with the wheat harvest. Her fiance offers to do the same. A hail storm wiped them out this year, and crop insurance will barely let them break even.

    As for kicks and insults, UAW, at least no one is trying to kill me yet.

    Yes, as a farmer, I have had experience with cooperatives, and they work for us.

    Barney Frank said turning our system into a government single payer insurance company is desirable. Senator Tom Harken’s office agreed with me that the House version of the bill would do that. Now, Drudge links to a President Obama’s saying “I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be some transition process.”

    My understanding of private health insurance companies is they are state based. If it is true, the companies have virtual monopolies within state borders because consumers can not buy insurance from an agency in another state even if it is cheaper. I don’t know if it is true, but if it is, that rule should change. Added competition would help lower prices.

    End of life counseling for people over sixty five is in the House version of the health insurance bill. Around page 429, the bill mentions an advisory care consultation.” The language is unclear and I am guessing that when the system runs out of money, it will be interpreted to be mandatory instead of voluntary. The government may also specify which doctors can write an end of life order.

    We cannot live without profits. Even governments must make money in the long run. Once the government has a monopoly it will, in my opinion, cut costs by rationing health care, and the very sick and old are prime money savers. This bill could give us “Logan’s Run.”

    That’s why I am leaning toward a version of the French system which combines private and public insurance to provide universal care for its citizens. It is cheaper than what Democrats propose, though the French are trying to change its features to reduce expenses.

    The next time I call my representatives, I will mention HB676 and the French system.

    How we end our lives is our business and not the government’s. Once the government provides our health insurance it will become the government’s business because tax payers will then pay the bills. We also ought to have the personal responsibility to watch our own diets and excercise. We are not children.

    Our friend who was in the first gay marriage in our county had a stroke last week. She said they married mainly so her partner could be on her insurance policy. Insurance payments won’t start for a week, and we are buying their groceries and giving them sweet corn. We have a responsibility to look after ourselves and our neighbors.

    The V.A. System nearly collapsed in the mid nineties, but it has become one of our better institutions. Given our new health insurance bills, I spoke to the V. A. about enrolling. The representative told me not everyone gets in. Since I have a service connected disability, my chances are better than many others’. So they apparently do not provide universal care for veterans.

    The V.A. is a focused system working with a specific demographic, so it is easier to fund and manage than a nation wide single insurance or care provider. Even so according to, Joe Wilson of the American Legion who inspects VA health centers said complacency and underfunding has endangered some veterans’ lives with improper radiation treatments, faulty endoscopic procedures, and other operations.

    Wilson also noted that the average VA facility is 49 years old compared to 12 years in the private sector. Too few doctors see too many patients. Government funding for the VA this year was on time for the first time in twenty years.

    Rep Harry Mitchell, who chairs the House Veterans Affairs’ Sub Committee on Oversight and Investigations said shoddy standards are systemic across the VA. (http://vote29.com/my blog/archives/1616 titled Healthcare:VA Medical System Falters). The VA is another arguement against a single payer provider.

    John Stossel narrated a 20/20 segment about problems with Canadian health care. According to him a dog can get an MRI scan faster than a human.

  32. While I am all for grassroots movements and I will defend to my death the freedom to protest and voice my dissent, I will not be attending or endorsing the tea party rallies.

    To support that particular movement is to support blatant racism and social division by using wedge issues to divide the American people by pretending they care about?????? taxes? Where the hell were these people when there was a white male in the white house that was driving our country over the cliff of bankruptcy by doubling the deficit….. Give me a break…..

    I am sure not EVERY person in attendance at those rallies are pissed that a black/biracial individual/s inhabits the White House. However I am POSITIVE that is the intent behind the organizers of that movement, and the attendees are either ignorant participants , or cowards who are willing to look the other way to further their individual crusade. For some it is to push their personal religious agenda, for others it is to preserve their golden nest egg, but make no mistake whatever their reason, it is NOT for the purpose of lowering taxes for the middle class.

    This of course is my personal opinion, I am sure others will disagree. ;-) namaste’

  33. UAW…have a gift to send you…what size asshat do you wear?

  34. Sorry UAW, not my cup of tea. Some good ideas, no real solutions, mostly just Obama bashing. But you go for it. I’ll keep pushing HB676, the smartest solution for the health crisis. :mrgreen:

  35. No matter your personal opinions, agenda or politics… this country is in deep trouble and only ‘we the people’ can effect the needed changes.


  36. avotresante Δ
    If you really want sin taxes don’t forget bottled water, golf carts, cell phones, cable tv, any vegetable shipped over 10 miles and dog grooming….

  37. Kitkat,
    lori’s right, I found it at opensecrets.org

    When I write to my congressman I will include that list of corporate lobbyists, and ask him the specific amount of money he took from each corporation he owns stock in.
    If everyone who visits this site does this, at the very least they’ll know they’re being watched.
    We are the ones who have to do the work, they’re not going to voluntarily shit in their own nest, as my dad used to say.
    If we want change, we have to make it happen.

  38. I’ll have to check back and see which site I found my information, it might have been opensecrets, govtrack.us, or The Center for Public Integrity.

    Here’s a list of corporate lobbyists, where you can match up your representatives’ investments with who’s spewing out money.


  39. Lori,
    Thanks, very helpful indeed.

  40. http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/07/health-energy-and-finance-sect.html

    this is a good site kitkat… follow the yellow brick road to “personal income” there is lots of other info on here too.

  41. if the gov’t can run the VA efficiently and actually have their costs go down and provide better coverage, while the rest of the ins co’s costs go up, I say the gov’t is already doing well running a health system. Why can’t we all opt in to that? Can you say ‘lobbyist’?

    BTW avotresante Δ — how can I find out what my Congressman is investing in?

  42. avotresante Δ, good job! We CAN do this. I can’t believe the amount of opposition I am finding out there. Most are telling me, “the government can’t run anything, how can they run this?”. They don’t get that we already have the government involved in heath care. They don’t get that is about cleaning up the government and eliminating waste. It is a battle. But it is worth it.

    Here in AZ we are fighting an uphill battle with our Senators Kyl and McCain. The representative for my district is John Shadegg. He is a big obstacle in trying to get reform. But we will find the right leverage if we keep after it.

    Yes we can! Happy Sunday everyone! :grin:

  43. I took vgman up on his challenge to start researching, and PalinShutUp’s request for fresh ideas.
    As I’ve said before, universal health care is the only acceptable choice. If insurance companies are part of it, there will continue to be exclusions.
    Many believe we can’t afford universal coverage, but I believe we can, and then some. I’ve heard some screeching about the cost being a trillion dollars a year for universal coverage.
    The first thing to do is to shift the paradigm to promoting health rather than financing illness. In doing that, many things come to mind, and my lovely state of Georgia was the biggest inspiration. Recently, they added $2 to a pack of cigarettes because they love their “sin taxes” here.
    So, let’s add “sin taxes” to every frankenfood, every toxic chemical, every pharmaceutical that causes a different catastrophic illness, every company that pollutes our environment. Why not add $2 to every Big Mac? McDonald’s wouldn’t tell me how many Big Macs they sell in a year, so the best estimate I could get was WikiAnswers at 550 million Big Macs per year. My math skills are poor but I believe adding $2 to each of 550 million units would bring in a good chunk of change. I asked the same of Burger King for the number of Whoppers sold per year, but didn’t get an answer. I’ve requested from NutraSweet, Domino sugar, and Imperial sugar, the number of tons of sweetener sold each year, but have gotten no response. My point is that if we add a tax to things that are known to destroy our health, there would be plenty of money.
    I will also be writing my representatives in Congress, but I’ve been doing a little research on them first. One is up for re-election in 2010, so he’s my priority. He owns stock in Monsanto, Myriad Genetics, McDonald’s, Hologic Inc., Mosaic Co., Illumina, Amgen, and Genzyme, among others. Interesting that these companies are all about messing with peoples’ health. I still have more research to do regarding lobbyists, and unspecified donations, but I look forward to how he responds to my inquiries.
    We CAN have universal health care.

  44. This is great! REAL TIME with Bill Maher



  45. The # 1 search on Google is “sarah palin divorce”

    Guess she didn’t like having a week without the spotlight as of course she refutes the rumor in the NY Times. She didn’t even tweet for a week :lol:

  46. I said months ago that Sarah Palin belongs on Jerry Springer. Looks like I was right on!

  47. Jean, My son Damon is one of those lovely young men who rescue damsels in distress from their petulant computers. In my case, he got so frustrated with my “antique” he mercifully sent me a big old Dell he had sitting around. It wasn’t new to him, but it sure was new to me and runs like a bat out of Hades. I knew there was a reason I allowed him to reach adulthood!! BTW, on the subject of Medicare, I am on it as of today!! Yippee!

  48. http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=110359344260&h=_gvR7&u=DsTRS&ref=nf

    The Palins are divorcing? LMAO

  49. Hi gang and UAW,

    Yep! You came up with a good one. Most of that supermarket sounds lovely, but I think I’ll stick with Costco for all our paper products thank you.

    How is your wife? Is she finished with her chemo?
    Please give her my best wishes for a total recovery. She can do it!!!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  50. Hi gang and Whirled Peas,

    I am your biggest fan! I love the gems you put up.

    But where were you when I needed you? I did invite you to move in with us one time so we could have a computer genius in residence.

    ‘Petulant Penelope Computer’ crashed recently. (I call her that because she goes into a snit whenever I don’t do things EXACTLY HER WAY!!!!!) Anyway, I spent HOURS on the phone with the techies getting transferred from one to another. I finally got hold of a sweet guy with infinite patience who held my hand and took me through a gazillion steps and WE fixed it. Don’t ask me how or what was wrong. I have no idea and actually couldn’t care less what’s under her ‘hood’.

    Poor Old Petulent Penelope. She is becoming a genuine antique. Her keyboard came over with
    Columbus. We replaced the monitor during the Civil War and the computer innards during WWI. They are all different brands. I don’t suppose that’s recommended. No doubt, a whole new shebang will be in order before too long.

    We miss you during your long absent intervals. Keep coming back, ya hear?

    Aloha! And namesta! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  51. Hi gang and Sistah Sally,

    OK, I’ll stay away from the tour busses. As for lightning, you know how extremely rare thunder and lightning storms are out here. We don’t even get out of the water during a Mauka shower.

    When you get to be a Rich Mamma, will you share the wealth with your good Kauaian buddie?

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  52. Hi gang and Greytdog,

    Take it easy, gal. You’re gonna get waterlogged and all pruney. I’m sure the puppers love it and appreciate your efforts. Good for you!!!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  53. “poolman”. Sorry. My eyes are crossing.

  54. Poolna, groan. Dog tired would be funny if not so true. Ended up banging up my already destroyed knee – oh so fun. Willie the newfie is sound asleep on the bed – there is no room on the bed for anyone else. Tomorrow AM we will be on the lake bright & early (after the gators are done with their breakfast) so Willie can work on towing the rowboat. We did some kayak work this AM. This boy is an energizer bunny for such a big boy. He should do “swimmingly” in his upcoming water trials tho. “night all. Gotta go make up the guest room so I can get some sleep.

  55. Hey Greyt, bet you’re dog-tired! :grin:

  56. vgman, that’s funny. I guess they better have disclaimers posted for all who would have issues. And what about all the vegetarians smelling the meat grilling? :-o

  57. Could I sue the supermarket for undue mental stress when I walk by the “mooing” milk display case all because I lost a shoe in a sunken manure hole as I was being chased by a cow when I was five years old?
    True story.
    Have a good Saturday night everyone!

  58. Helen and Margaret,

    You two are a scream!! You are my “hero’s”!!
    I have not laughed so hard in a very long time.
    I look forward to reading and laughing on a regular basis with you.


  59. ThoughtCriminal….. you know, in the gay world a ‘chicken hawk’ is an old geezer that goes for young boys…… do you think? That’s a HOOT!

    Keith in NM

  60. Cronkite flew with the Army Air Corps over Germany and landed in a glider with the 101st Airborne at Normandy during WW-2.

    Rush is a classic chickenhawk who probably wouldn’t get into a B-17.

  61. Whirled, Krugman’s article was one of the best descriptions of government involvment in health care that I have read.

  62. LOL.

    I’m still laughing…. you said it all so well. Good for you. Keep it coming.

  63. UAW, thanks for the laugh :-) I’m sending that one on also!

  64. Poolman: Can’t say that particular bit of Palin news (if true) surprises me. Beyond that, I’ll just keep my yap shut.

  65. UAW, that was a hoot. I think I would avoid the TP aisle also. We have the misting and the thunder, but not the other sensory stuff

  66. SP is getting a divorce:


  67. have exactly 15 minutes of a break today so thought I’d peek in. UAW loved the story about the supermarket. . . very funny. Thanks! made me smile.
    So far today I’ve received one dog bite on the arm (fear biting barely broke the skin – 13 yr old border w/severe spinal stenosis), a zillion puppy kisses, and have been thoroughly dunked by a 150lb Newfoundland whom I’m conditioning for his water trials. . . tomorrow AM he & I head out to the lake for some open water work. . .ugh. but he’ll have fun. Okay gotta go. You all take care.

  68. Republicans had the opportunity yesterday to VOTE TO STOP MEDICARE ( government health care) but they voted to keep it! Imagine that. They do not like government in health care unless it is Medicare, Military Health Care ore Veteran Health care. All three government present health care systems run much more efficiently and economically than the current PRIVATE INSURANCE MESS which is currently infecting our nation.

    The more I learn about health care, THE BETTER SINGLE PAYER LOOKS!

    We could not have a worse mess than we currently face. 60% of bankrupcies are related to health cares bills! Fair – not at present!

    Single Payer is looking better all the time.

  69. Sherri:

    You are so very right….. WE have let them do this to us… now it’s time WE let them know we’re not happy and we’re not going to take it anymore, to paraphrase a famous movie script…..

    In many cases, we have choices and those choices DO make a difference, such as the choices you mentioned. Make sure you’re not buying gas from Citgo… the Venezuelans bought it from 7-11 years ago…. I know it’s impossible to buy strickly American, but we can buy from this hemisphere….. Electrolux (Fridgidare) manufactures in Mexico…. more Mexicans with jobs, fewer illegal immigrants…… remember when Wal-Mart touted ‘made in America’ as a selling point and matter of pride? Wonder what Mr. Sam would think about his company now?

    It’s time, once again, that we as Americans assert our independence….. way too many have died to allow us this as a birthright. Remember of the people, for the people, by the people? Somehow we’ve allowed the word people to be replaced by the word corporation. There is a significant place in our society for the corporation, just not where our politics, health and well-being are concerned.

    It’s time to reject self-serving, stand up together and take care of each other.

    Lord, you get me on this soap-box and I can go on for days…

    On a lighter note… UAW, that was a riot…. I sent that to EVERYONE I know! Thank You!

    Keith in NM

  70. new supermarket…

    A new supermarket opened in Overland Park, KS.. It has an automatic water mister to keep the produce fresh. Just before it goes on, you hear the sound of distant thunder and the smell of fresh rain.

    When you pass the milk cases, you hear cows mooing and you experience the scent of fresh mown hay.

    In the meat department there is the aroma of charcoal grilled steaks with onions.

    When you approach the egg case, you hear hens cluck and cackle, and the air is filled with the pleasing aroma of bacon and eggs frying.

    The bread department features the tantalizing smell of fresh baked bread and cookies.

    I don’t buy toilet paper there anymore.

  71. James…
    I’m changing the subject to some MI. farming news…..you might find it interesting…


  72. Here, Here, Keith!

    Insurance companies should not be for-profit industries.

    Pharmaceuticals should not be a for-profit industry.

    Banks should not be a for-profit industry.

    Reform these three and we will have taken care of much of the greed and corruption that is causing our infrastructure to crumble.

    You know, credit unions are not-for-profit. If everyone closed their bank accounts and opened credit union accounts, we would send a strong message to Wall Street & to elected officials regarding corporate greed.

    Our hands are not tied. There is much we can do. Close our bank accounts & open an account with a federally insured credit union. Quit buying gas from companies that import oil and start buying gas only from companies that use oil harvested in America. Quit voting for incumbents unless we’re ecstatically happy with their performance. I could go on, but these three things alone would be such a HUGE start!

  73. Loved it…but as for your comment on Mother Teresa…perhaps you should read this article: http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/shields_18_1.html

  74. Health Care for the Good of All–
    not the Greed of Some.

    Progressive reform that benefits our Whole Society–
    not the Self-Selected Few.

  75. Health Care Realities
    by Paul Krugman

    At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.” The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program — but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, “wasn’t having any of it.”

    ~ snip ~

    Now Mr. Obama basically proposes using additional regulation and subsidies to make decent insurance available to all of us. That’s not radical; it’s as American as, well, Medicare.
    ;) – Δ

  76. Keith, As this save the poor insurance companies talk goes on, the more I am thinking single payer and the reforms you mention.

    Why should the health and life of people be based on profits for health care CEO’s?

    Insurance companies and the blue dog’s need to wake up to reality.

  77. I think the way to wage an effective war for health care reform (reads: take on the insurance companies) is to have INSURANCE reform proposed on a much broader scale.

    Reform auto insurance… rates based on an individuals actual driving history, not credit history or zip-code.

    Reform home-owner’s insurance… prohibit dropping customers for filing claims; make flood insurance a mandatory part of home-owner’s insurance; prohibit the ‘red-lining’ of zip-codes for new insurance.

    It’s my opinion, if we ‘throw the book’ at the insurance companies, they’ll start to listen. Otherwise, nationalize the whole mess, merge them into a single entity for efficiency’s sake, and run it for the greater good rather than the exec’s. Something of a single, mutual-type insurance entity.

    There comes a point, when it’s no longer about the profit motive as worshipped by American society, but the basic health of each participant in the American society.

    For God’s sake, for once let’s do what’s right rather than what brings in a profit.

    Keith in NM

  78. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 8/1/09

    This Economic Storm Will Pass


  79. Good morning all, I too favor the single payer system, and when Obama was a state senator he campaigned on that concept. Over the years he has come to the realization that is easier said then done. He now says if we were starting from scratch a SPS would be ideal and something to work towards. Actually I agree with Bill Maher and think healthcare should NOT be a for profit endeavor. As he says there are certain things that just shouldn’t be for sale and I happen to think our health is one of them. Hell every other modern country has come to this conclusion long ago we are woefully behind on this concept.

    It is my belief that had Obama not had the massive economic crisis, debt, high unemployment, to deal with (thanks to GWB) we would be celebrating a healthcare victory that included all three of his principles . I am just thrilled we were able to come as far as we have, and will likely be seeing the bill signed by Halloween. Considering all the money and road blocks that have been thrown out there by our worthy opponents that wish to keep things exactly as they are, we did good! CNN poll of polls still has Obama at 54 percent, while down considerably from a record breaking high it is still very respectable considering all the tough issues he has tackled in a short amount of time. Not to mention we are country that is still at war, has a huge unemployment rate, massive deficit, and a banking system that is still teetering on the edge. Just about the worst case scenario a politician could ask for starting out your term. I think Obama needs to keep reminding the people exactly WHY we are in this economical pickle and WHO got us here. His supporters need to remember that too.;-) We progressives tend to be the most impatient lot! Can you imagine where we would be today if Mc Cain and buttercup had won? Frightening…Lord have mercy!

    The politicians will go back home and try and sell their plans to the masses. While it may not be a perfect plan it is progress, let’s be supportive of our representatives…..lets continue to push for the moon, but lets not forget to celebrate the small victories. It really was quite a feat when you think about it.

    Have a great weekend all…. I am off to enjoy the beauty of our Great Lakes… namaste’

  80. Whirled, your sense of humor has been missed ;-)

    Oh my, Jesus has been a busy boy lately brewing up discourse.

    The beer of choice of course was not Politically Correct. It should have been Sam Adams not those foreign owned beers :lol:

  81. Thx Raji,

    I’m glad I still have some fans out there. ;) It been a while since I’ve had any time to blog, but I see how I might not be missed with M&H getting so many new readers/commenters. I’m seeing M&H on more blogrolls everyday.

    So, anyway, WWJH?

    Who Would Jesus Heal?

    PEACE ~ Δ

  82. HI gang and Poolman,

    Re: Your link to Beer diplomacy above. Priceless!I’ll drink to that. Make mine a White Zin.

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  83. UAW, this Bud’s for you…

    “May the God of peace — and Godisgood — be with Obama, Gates, Crowley, and all who choose to share a beer as they try to mend fences.”


  84. Poolman, I am for the single payer plan. BUT I’m under no illusions that Big Money Big Pharma, Big Insurance, and the Wingnuts will ever allow it. But I’m being more cynical than normal. . .it’s been a long week and the weekend just got longer with the addition of four new clients. Sat will be in the therapy pool with the puppers for 10 hours straight. . .time to hit the sack! Night all! Have a safe and good weekend!

  85. Anyone ever wonder at Big Pharma’s (the lot of them) decisions on what to research and market?

    I think they probably spend more R&D money looking for a cure for MPB (male pattern baldness) than anything else.

    <<<Big Pharma Hater here.


  86. Hi gang,

    It is interesting what a huge success the ‘Cash for Clunkers’ program has been; it ran out of money and needed more. As I understand it, this program has benefited the auto industry, local dealerships, their employees and the public in general that was in the market for a new car. That is to say nothing about being environmentally friendly, getting rid of big polluting gas-guzzlers and giving a boost to the economy. We MAY have turned the corner on the recession/depression is less than eight months. The stock market is higher now than it has been in months too. I call that progress!!! These items are easily verifiable on TV, in newspapers or on the inter net by anyone.

    (Incidentally, The ‘Cash for Clunkers’ program does not apply to us since we are quite happy with our fairly late model fuel-efficient car. We downgraded from two cars to one several years ago and take turns driving it. Works for us!)

    As to Health Care systems in Canada, England, France, Germany and Scandinavia, there are innumerable sources of information, the inter net probably being one of the least reliable. In the past 10 years, we have visited all those countries, several times, although we did not discuss any matters with government officials or tour hospital and medical facilities. So I cannot speak with any expertise on those matters. However, their societies seemed to running along nicely from what we could observe. They have running water, electricity, paved roads and any number of ‘modern’ conveniences.

    It would take much more time and research than I’m interested in devoting to it to cite each or any one of them with authentic authority.

    Now as an avowed elitist, I think I’ll sit back and wait for the profound rambling rebuttals here on M&H based on the evils of government run programs such as Health Care, (for teachers), the farm subsidies and the Fed run by a monster such as Ben Berneke. Further, the big agri-businesses are far superior to the small farmer; what with the price of combines in the 70’s, etc. Thus these ‘facts’ are indicators of the dire predictions that are in order on all of the above; down five, ten, twenty years from now.

    Aloha! ;-)


  87. [...] Friday Octogenerian Rush Clobbering with Margaret and Helen [...]

  88. [...] Octogenerian Rush Clobbering with Margaret and Helen Helen: Rush Limbaugh, a man who will never have to worry about the cost of insurance and admits to [...]

  89. Hi Sistah Sally,

    Welcome back!!! We missed you!!!

    Aloha! :-)

    Auntie Jean

  90. Hey y’all!! M&H blog got a huge mention on DailyKos


    You go, ladies!! Rock that boat!!!

  91. Honolulu Sally, good to hear from you. You keep it up on that rich dad homework. As I can recall, that is where we need to get out of the mindset that we need to have a job for income and advancement. That is what we are taught and the way our society works. Rich dad is about getting things put in place to work for you and frees you to be creative and free.

    Anne, insurance co-ops have been around a long time. I’m sure James has had experiences with co-ops. It is still insurance. Just with pooled resources. More hands in the pie but with more pie choices. Either way, I don’t think we need these vehicles to deliver medical care.

  92. Seven or eight.

  93. Poolman, I’m with you, I can’t go backward either. It’s 676!
    There are only 7 (or 8) states that have forced insurance companies to pay for treatment for autism. There is treatment, and it works. For my son’s family and most other families, it’s not affordable.
    Insurance companies are simply no longer acceptable. Everyone must have access to care. Everyone.

  94. UAW, people on this blog are quite a bit more tolerant of differing points of view. True, some get rude and obnoxious. But for the most part, the comments are genuine. I notice a lot of times your posts are written to get a rise from the left. And when you start out slinging shit, you’re usually going to get shit on. But if you come in civil with an opposing view, I think, for the most part, people here respect that and don’t attack you personally. Not always, but most of the time.

    Try azcentral.com and read some of the comments there. Of course most are right wing, so you may not find it as offensive as I do. But a lot of these people are just vulgar and abusive. How many rude names can we come up with for our president? They don’t even try for civil. The disrespect is pretty rampant. And they cling to the same old garbage. Even after it is proved false. Oy vey :roll:

  95. I’m hearing a lot about the idea of creating health insurance co-ops but not hearing that many of the existing ones work that well. Does anyone have personal experience with one?

  96. Whirled Peas, Good ones!!! :-)

  97. Greytdog, I thought you would get behind HB676 and/or S 703, single-payer health insurance. Those take the insurance companies out of the mix for basic health care. The stuff going through the system right now is just health insurance reform, IMO. If they do adopt this latest bill and keep the public insurance option in it, It will force the other insurance companies to drop their prices to compete, or get out of the market. That is what they are trying so hard to get rid of in this latest legislation.

    So why not get them out now. Once I read the single-payer plan, I can’t go backward. The insurance companies pretty much own the healthcare industry right now. They need to be fired. HB676 does that. And it is MUCH cheaper than this latest bill.

  98. Stephen Colbert on Racism:

    The Word

    He Who Smelt It, Dealt It.

    “Racism is nothing more than an unpleasant nuisance that is best to ignore, like a fart.”
    ;) ~ Δ

  99. Hi Gang, long time no read/write!

    Coming up for air from a busy few days preceding busier many days.

    UAW, you make me laugh. You just love to push our buttons, and you are very good at it. You also don’t seem to be phased when your buttons are slammed, slaughtered or shitted upon. Maybe you don’t have buttons.

    I am still a proud member of the Obamahead society. I think Jon Stewart should be president of it, I’d sign up to be his water bearer any day.

    Jean, stay away from buses, especially the tour buses. And lightning. ha ha ha – makes me think of the Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Not that I would recommend it to anyone except for it’s conceptual and visual marvels, but I did like the lightning in that show.

    Okay, off to learn more from Rich Dad. Whoever thinks you will never be a millionaire or rich, grab one of his books, and start getting your financial education. I’ll let you all know when I am Rich Mom.

  100. Limbaugh and the rest of his muckers; Buchanan, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, O’Reily continue to be pissed that their side lost in ’08.

    Worse yet is the fact that they’re still peeved that Abe Lincoln had the balls to ask them to help abolish slavery.

    In their eyes, they missed a real chance to nip this in the bud before it got started.


  101. I think part of the confusion about care in the UK stems from (what else) a problem with the conservatives there.

    The system was working just fine until Thatcher got in. She and her cohorts de-funded it nearly to death. Long lines, horrible care. Now, after some time under a Labor govt, it’s getting fixed again and there are few problems.

  102. Greytdog
    …Doing the 80s & 90s Florida saw a huge uptick in medical malpractice suits with huge personal injury awards – and the cost of malpractice insurance rose, driving out family providers, ob-gyn, and even some neurologists…..

    I fully agree, while I think a big part of the problem is AMERICAN, NO other country in the world supports the “sueing-lottery” in this way, rewarding millions $$$ for BULLS**T!

    Other countries too allow to sue for malepractice and other stuff (car accidents, insults, etc.) but the rewards are reasonable (in the thousands, not millions), no one gets rich through that, but people still get compensated in a way, it just prevents people sueing for all and everything expecting to become millionares through court decicions and lawyers to make thier first million before age 30!

    There is something fundamentally qworng with the whole system, incl. the attitude!

    Once done with Health care, someone should look into the excesses of the legal system too!

  103. UWA and all:


    ’nuff said!

  104. Good afternoon all…. Please do not be fooled by the shiny object in the room.

    They do not care about real change and are perfectly content to allow the “healthcare ” cartels to profit from our citizens. The only issues they care about are derailing the progression and the destruction of our efforts. The money and power that is behind this opposition is powerful and it is difficult to combat. They don’t want to discuss and debate they want to force us to remain beholden to the rich and powerful…. Let’s show them NOT THIS time… Not now…

    It is politics guys… don’t be distracted…. keep on calling and writing, speaking , BLOGGING to your neighbors, friends, relatives,representatives… Find an event near you and attend or volunteer @ one.

    Again ,I promise you reform will be passed in both the senate and the house, let them have some political cover, and give them a month or so and I promise you will will have some reform. Have faith…


  105. Greytdog, it is so about healthcare rather than health insurance. It is about medical coverage for everyone at a price they can afford, it is about medical personnel and facilities in sparsely populated areas, it is about an adequate number of primary physicians, it is about available specialists in your region, who can bring up your medical record on their computer and avoid repeating tests. It is about emergency wards focused on treating true emergencies not clogged, caring for chronic illnesses, cases in which the hospital usually has to eat the bill and then raise prices on everyone else to make up the difference. It is about not having to choose between eating and taking your medication or not taking your full dose. It is about accessible dieticians and physical therapists to prevent and to control chronic illnesses. The insurance companies and HMOs are the trees; healthcare with good results for all is the forest. Personally I don’t have a dog in this fight, I have single payer insurance as a result of my husband’s military career and I assure you it is the best care I’ve ever had in my life. I just happen to be altruistic enough to wish everyone in America had universal single payer coverage.

  106. Anonymous on July 31, 2009 at 9:12 AM wrote:
    “James this is not about improving health insurance, it is about improving heathcare. Got it?”

    I disagree. This is about reform how people can access the health care system – and in order to do that, we have to look at the role insurance companies play. IMO, insurance companies are the main obstacle – pre-existing conditions, catastrophic conditions, high premiums, denial of coverage, and the list goes on and on. The medical doctors and staff do not create these “conditions” – but they end up being bound by them as much as the patient, if not more so. Everyone blathers about “oh the government will stand between you and your doctor” – what a crock. What stands between you and your doctor is the Insurance company and the only thing they care about is their bottom line. Doing the 80s & 90s Florida saw a huge uptick in medical malpractice suits with huge personal injury awards – and the cost of malpractice insurance rose, driving out family providers, ob-gyn, and even some neurologists. We like our magic pills and our fancy fixes, but just cuz we have them doesn’t mean we should be using them or even need them all the time. Even though I am self-pay and struggle sometimes to determine whether or not I can afford to have the next procedure or recommended battery of tests, at least I don’t have someone in a cubicle telling me that my health care is not medically necessary. And I don’t accept my doctor’s recommendations at face value either – I research, I study, I question, and I make him work with me. If the efficacy ratio isn’t at least 80% for some of the major testing & procedures, I’m not buying.

  107. James,
    Please provide a source that states “COMPULSORY end of life counseling” is in the health bills.

    Maybe we read the situation differently. I read it as providing end of life information between a patient and his/her physician or nurse practioner. Medicare does not pay for preventive care only for treatments. If a physician and his patient wish to discuss this information under current terms, they will have to do it during a treatment. Elderly people should be able to see a physician once a year regardless of their health. Of course if the elderly have private “Cadillac” insurance, they won’t have this issue but many don’t.

    Of course the media jumped on the provision and twisted the facts as usual. Headlines sell much better with your information than they do with mine.

    Have you read the lies about euthanasia for the elderly? We should only wish then we wouldn’t have to be trucking to Oregon or Sweden for assisted suicide.

  108. poolman said….
    “I think there is so much rage in some people they cannot reason anymore. They just lash out and stomp on any ideas that aren’t dittoed out. It is pretty sad and pitiful. No respect.”

    Happens on this site also

    James…been what…a day since you’ve been kicked or insulted in some way….

  109. Jean…
    I too watched Larry King and I almost changed channel when Rev “shit for brains” Sharpton started talking…..he couldn’t even admit that the Gates incident wasn’t racial profiling…..all he could do was blather on and admit that since it was a cop and he(the cop) was white than automatically he(the cop)is guilty…..isn’t that racial discrimination and profiling?????
    Oh that’s right….white people can’t be discriminated against…..WTF…..
    and I never said that racial profiling never happens…just not that time
    and me and Barack have something in common…….BUD LIGHT

  110. James this is not about improving health insurance, it is about improving heathcare. Got it?

  111. I would rather shave my head with a cheese grater while chewing on tin foil than listen to Rush or any other drivel on AM radio. What a waste of time and energy.

    I love how his ‘herds’ of loyal listeners they call themselves ‘Dittoheads’. The name alone screams “I can’t think for myself and I’m damn proud of it”. You get a lot of that for authoritarian followers. If he is what they call their leader, their lives must be cold, dark and filled with fear and hatred.

    “You can fool some of the people all of the time…and that’s all we need!”
    Karl Rove (I think?)

    (BTW ~ The last time I tuned into AM radio was for Howard Stern’s last show on WNBC-NY ~ September 27, 1985) ;)

    PS: Hi all.

    PEACE ~ Δ

  112. James said

    The deck is also stacked against private insurance companies, and they will essentially evolve out of existence over the years.

    We have been told over and over again that the private system can do it better an cheaper. It is time to put up or shut up.

    Private Insurance Companies will still be around, but they will have to change and consider the good of the people they insure for a change. We would not need this change if the Republicans had made things better while they had the power. The Republicans and Insurance Companies made health insurance worse at every turn and WE NEED CHANGE!

    Insure all people with no pre-existing conditions!

  113. James, please stop spreading the lies about end of life counseling. EVERYONE should be doing this now anyway. It is about living wills. I do not want extra-ordinary measures if I’m comatose and am putting it down on paper — that is what they are wanting people to outline. Each person can decide for themselves how they want to be medically treated in such a circumstance. This discussion should be happening no matter what. I know my mother’s wishes as she has a living will. We aren’t rationing care to the elderly. Stop drinking the Kool-aid.

    BTW, we have a shortage of general practitioners right now and this plan would increase the number of them — forgiving loans for those who go into general practice, etc.

    And still don’t know where you get your information for waiting lists in the UK (source please). My inlaws who all live in the UK do not have to wait for anything at all and don’t understand what you are referring to.

  114. ImagistaA, I don’t want the status quo, but some parts of the House insurance bill disturb me. For example, the compulsory end of life counseling for people over sixty five may turn out to be similar to the proposed rationing system for swine flu vaccine. People with chronic conditions up to age 64 have a chance at vaccinations. The old are on their own.

    The deck is also stacked against private insurance companies, and they will essentially evolve out of existence over the years.

    Another unintended consequence of the proposed system may be a shortage of general practicioners. An Omaha television station discussed it last night.

    Planners did not do so well with the stimulus laws, and not that cash for clumkers has barely lasted a week illustrates the risk of depending on our government to fix problems. Something less complex is less risky. Government estimates of cost will be too low.

    I would like to see a system similar to agricultural crop insurance. Everybody can buy it, and subsidies make it affordable. Expanding on the farm system, government subsidies adjusted for income would let everyone choose and own an insurance policy. Farmers can decline to buy insurance which even covers crop prices in some policies, but knowledge the government won’t help them out of a catastrophic disaster is incentive to buy at least basic coverage. The government could provide tax incentives for people to buy health insurance. It should be treated as auto insurance.

    Maybe groups of people could form cooperatives as farmers do to negotiate better rates and coverage. I think people are not allowed to buy insurance in other states, at least I heard that. If so, the rule should be changed to let customers purchase policies from any state.

    I would like to see more responsibility placed on the individual insurance consumer than on employers. It will reduce costs to the government and businesses.

    The French system does some of this. French emloyees pay about 20% of their gross salary and self-employed even more deducted at source to fund the social security system. A significant proportion of the money pays for universal coverage for every legal resident.

    Private and public clinics are of similar quailty, and though waiting lines are long, there are few waiting lists as in the UK. Even if a patient sees a government supported doctor, he/she pays the full bill of which 70% is reimbursed within ten days. Each person carries a green card which he/she presents when seeing a doctor or buying prescribed medicine.

    People can choose their own GP’s, and can change them at will. They can also choose GP’s operating privately. Private GP’s can charge what the market will bare, but they must post their prices. The patient makes up the difference either out of pocket or via insurance.

    Charges vary according to the section of France and the experience of the GP’s.

    With such a hodgepode of choices, and few if any restrictions on private insurance companies people tend to own private policies to compensate for higher private and government charges. Premiums depend on age and level of coverage, and the patient must prove the state has paid its fair share before the insurance companies pay the difference.

    The French health insurance system is running a six billion euro deficit and is under funding pressure, but it seems less expensive than our current House insurance bill.

    The public sector operates about 65% of hospital beds and the rest are private. Doctors are essentially public servants and the government determines their salaries. However, they can supplement their incomes in private practice. About 56% work privately to avoid poorer working conditions in government hospitals. Private hospitals operate on profits and depend on fee for service to stay in business. They also take a little financial pressure from the government which is spared the private payments.

    Since rising costs and deficites are constraining the economy, and governments are reducing some disbursements, private insurance policies are becoming more popular. They cover all or part of the costs not reimbursed by the government.

    Foreign nationals outside of EU member states or Switzerland must justify their right of residence in order to gain right to health care. I think our House bill pays for some treatment of illegal aliens, at least their children. I could be wrong about that.

    Life expectancy in France has been over 80 since 2004, so the combination of government and private coverage seems to be working. I think it would be less expensive than some of the measures the House bill contains.

  115. Jean, thanks for the compliment. I get compassionate about certain things and try to get through without beating people over the head with it. Although sometimes I think a flogging would do some good. ;-)

    I went and left comments on a local blog regarding health care and just really got abused. I think there is so much rage in some people they cannot reason anymore. They just lash out and stomp on any ideas that aren’t dittoed out. It is pretty sad and pitiful. No respect. We are so impersonal anymore. All these protective outer layers to keep the inner fragile soul from exposure. Kind of like how we treat each other when we drive. Our “vehicle personalities” >(

    Health Insurance is not health care. Think of it like you are paying a salesman. You’re buying a marked up product. His contract tells you what you can get and how much you need to pay and when. He benefits when you need care. When you need that prescription, he gets his cut too. Oh and not just him. He has a manager. His manager has a manager. Then the CEO. Oh, and the lobbyists. And the advertising. He has an accountant, a secretary, a lawyer or firm, his own insurances, his office and it’s furnishings, shiny brochures, etc. You pay for all that. Oh, and then the doctors, nurses, hospitals, labs, etc.

    All you need is the doctors, nurses, hospitals, labs, etc. You are paying retail BIG TIME. Oh, and his expenses keep going up, just like yours. So he is going to pass that down, too. And oh, wait, you know statistically you are going to start costing us because of you age, so were going to double your premium or let you go, there’s your “choice” :-(

    Now tell me again why we need health insurance?

  116. Hi gang,

    Last one.

    I gave it my best shot this afternoon. I sat down to watch Larry King with Al Sharpton and Ann Coulter. It was the most shrill bunch of incoherant, gibberish double-talk I have heard in a long time. I didn’t make it past the first commercial. Helen is a better woman than I am to read Coulter’s whole book.

    Sigh. I tried.

    Aloha! :-)


  117. Hi gang,

    I’m SO PROUD that I am mastering smiley faces!!! I’m still practicing. I couldn’t have done it without the tips from my pals here. I am grateful to you!!! Who says you can’t teach an old broad new tricks?

    Next, after all this time, I’ve got to learn how to put up an avatar. But first, I have to come up with a picture of some kind.

    Aloha! :-)


  118. Hi gang and Poolman,

    Another amen!!! Your posts are clear and well thought out.



  119. http://www.healthreform.gov/

    This is health and human services web site and it addresses the hidden costs of health care very clearly. Also provides sources for their information. Found it very helpful ;-)

  120. Amen, Poolman. I hope so too.

  121. Anne,

    The drug companies and the insurance companies are in this together. You can’t always separate one from the other. Yes, they should make a profit as a business, but not at the cost of our health. We should get the best medications, not the ones they push because of the highest profit. If an organic remedy works without side effects, why should we only be given a prescription for the name brand patented product with all the funky side effects that costs $800 for a month’s supply? And if we have a plan that allows us that drug for 80 dollars, who do you think makes up that other $720? We still pay for it, just not when we pick it up at the pharmacy. The drug company is not cutting us a deal.

    The insurance companies cost us.
    The drug companies cost us.
    Corruption and duplicity in the system costs us.
    Unnecessary tests and procedures cost us.
    Lawyers are involved and cost us.
    We pay for those can’t, that costs us.

    The doctors’ hands are tied. They cannot just treat us, they have to abide by all the rules and hoops put in place by everyone with their hand in this pie.

    It needs a major overhaul. I hope we can fix it.

  122. Poolman:

    Of course they’re out to make a profit. They’re a business. My point is, they’re not the most expensive problem we need to look at. And if we focus all our energy on making them the bad guy, we miss the more expensive problems.

  123. JuneauJoe, I can’t believe people take Glen Beck seriously. I saw a segment the other day where he said he carried his concealed gun into a movie theater and that just scared the crap out of me. To think of him with a gun is wild. I don’t think he is that stable a person. What if someone in front of him was talking and being rude, like people sometimes do? Can you see him pulling that gun out and waving it around? Scary, scary man.

    Really the first time I saw him, I thought he was a comedian. His actions, inflections, and voice. I kept waiting for the punch line. Never came. But he makes more money than me. So does Rush – by far. I can’t believe the value we in America place on the village idiot.

  124. Anne, the drug companies are involved up to their eyebrows. They are out to make a buck and DO sacrifice health to do it. Don’t be naive.


    See if this suits your desire:


  125. Hi Folks,

    I think Glen Beck is moving up the idiot scale pretty fast.

  126. Yeah Jean you did it! LOL ;-)

  127. Hi gang,

    Morning to all of you! :-)



  128. Phramacutical companies are not the cause of rising health care. I know that’s not popular to say given they are such an easy target. It’s just that people tend to see the costs associated with drugs since they aren’t covered as well as other things. I recently had a baby and the hospital bill for the delivery and hospital stay for 2 days was almost $10,000, and that doesn’t include what my doctor charged. Even if you paid $400 a month for perscription drugs, that doesn’t even come close. No health care plan will work unless we deal with the source of rising health care costs. Mandating that everyone buy insurance won’t solve the problem. Mandating that drug companies lower prices won’t solve the problem. I’ve heard a lot of ideas on NPR lately about what will. Paying doctors salaries rather than pay for service is one idea, as they won’t be rewarded for running unnecessary tests. Trying other options before surgery in another way. Forgiving students loans for those who go into primary practice to encourage more primary care physicians and less specialists is another way. Specialsts often make 4 times as much money and primary care physicians saddled with student loans have to spend less time with more patients to make enough to pay them back. Do any of the proposed plans include any of these ideas?

  129. I heard on TV (sorry, can’t remember where) that the insurance lobbying groups are spending millions of dollars a day right now fighting this reform. Makes we wonder a few things. Such as, why do they have millions of dollars excess to use? Also, this plan must scare the hell out of them all and therefore, makes me think we need it pretty badly.

    Oh, and the repubs have put out their own version of the bill. No requirement for people to sign up for insurance, only a website to help people find insurance. Gives some people tax credits for insurance. Oh, and at the bottom of the article, a note about how they want to make sure that the amount people could collect for pain and suffering and wrongful death lawsuits are capped. Seems like the insurance companies wrote that bill. Not one bit about pre-existing conditions being cut out. Just mentioned a comment about putting money aside for each state to address those individuals who are denied insurance. Bet it would be a complicated system which takes a PhD to figure out how to get insurance.

  130. James @ 7 am – you sure do go on and on, but I am usually left knowing the ways you think ideas won’t work, but without a clear idea about what you think would work better. Maybe I am not reading your posts correctly, but your arguments indicate that you are of the demographic that thinks the status quo is fine.

    There’s all kinds of talk about the cost of reform, what of the cost if we do nothing? Funny how the tax cuts for the 1/10 of 1% and the $2 trillion Iraq war were acceptable to most (if not all) conservatives – things we most definitely did not need in the least, but a $1 trillion health care system – which we most definitely need, are unacceptable. I’d be more willing to listen if the cons had been concerned about spending under GWB, but they weren’t.

  131. Easier
    …Yes, the only way affordable health care could come into play would be to make the insurance companies non-profit……

    Still wouldn’t safe us from getting screwed over to high wages…….oh, and porsches as company cars etc……..

  132. :-) :-) :-) :-)

    Sorry everyone….just practicing my smiley faces.
    I hope they worked!

  133. Ok girls…there are new things to talk about…Here is Obama beating the bushes to talk about health care and his fellow politications saying wierd things like he is wanting to kill off old people…there is a story there…

  134. My son sent me this . “Alaska Moosehunter Chief Quitter-in-chief ” waves goodbye.Gave me a chuckle.

    To my list of things of dislike I have added Insurance Cos. So now my list it is FDA, Pharmaceutical Cos., and now Insurance co.s.
    I have a few more but Those are the biggies.

  135. Thanks Werner… ;-) hope you’re feeling bettter these days and have healed from your injuries!

    Lilady NY claims: Real journalism is dead. The 24-hour news cycle has killed it.

    I sooooooooo agree….

  136. Jean and Lori

    forget websites for simple smieleys, just typ:
    a colon :
    a dash –
    and a right bracket )
    and you got yourselfs a smieley (will only appear afterposting) :-)
    and if you use a semicolon instead ; you make it wink, a “P” makes it sitck out its tounge….. ;-)

    there you go

  137. Welcome back Helen and Margaret. Please don’t stay away so long. We miss you.

    Great post – spot on.

    Real journalism is dead. The 24-hour news cycle has killed it.

  138. Jean, your advice is good. My wife and I have done all of those things. I also suggest cleaning the attic so the kids don’t have to do it. Our attic is still full.

    Since I chase storms and have had encounters with lightning, I have also wondered about letting lightning take me out. However, when a feeder streak passed through me and burned my ankle, the experience was very unpleasant. Even worse, lightning can leave permanent damage and not kill you.

  139. Mike Mathers, you are too clueless to understand that whenever you look in the mirror you see someone worse than I.

    Walter Cronkite accepted an award from a group associated with Norman Cousins. In his acceptance speech he said he supported one world government and the diminution of our and other countries’ national sovereignty it would require.

    He said in his acceptance speech that during his career he had kept his true beliefs quiet because as a news caster, his job was to appear impartial. Walter was a good role model for reporters.

  140. lori’s earlier post is a smoke screen. One can find similar nepharious motivations among the Democrats. They have nothing to do with the content of the bill. The bill is all that matters.

    Obama did not write the various leglislation as far as I can determine. He let Pelosi and Reid’s people make the composition. We know how hard it is to wade through the House bill, and Obama would have to read other versions too. By his own admission, he was not familiar with a section in the first pages. So, yes, I believe Obama, while knowledgable about the general frame work does not know all of the details.

    John Conyers, I believe said anyone crazy enough to read the bill would need two days and lawyers standing by. We know most Congressmen didn’t read the stimulus bill, including a late 300 page amendment, and I am willing to bet Obama didn’t either. He is a busy man with one of the most daunting jobs in the world. He didn’t read all of the bill, I am sure.

    This bill will not save money, and it will be more expensive than advertised. Omaha radio station KFAB noted that the Johnson administration estimated Medicare’s cost to be $90 million by 1990 when it actually cost $120 million. I’m not sure if these figures are as I remember, but the cost overrun is . As we know, Medicare will become insolvent in less than twenty years. How will we solve that problem?

    The House bill does provide for private insurance companies, but economics and provisions in the bill suggest they will gradually evolve out of existence and we will have in effect a single payer plan. Businesses and local governments are struggling with rising medical care costs, and the bill will transfer much of the weight to the already overburdened federal government and us the taxpayers. Cost estimates range from a trillion to over three trillion dollars.

    I read that over the past twenty years, most of the major medical innovations have come from the United States instead of Europe. I don’t know if it is true, but if so, why the change? What effect would this bill have on improved drugs and technology?

    The Chinese are already worried about our ability to support their investment in our debt. What happens if something unforeseen occurs? For example, the government and the Army are quietly planning for a major flu upheaval, including rationing of vaccine. I have lived through the dislocation epidemics cause when over 40% of a population gets sick. If the worst happens, our economy will take another temporary dive.

    Republicans and other Democrats have proposed alternatives but our news media deem them too unimportant to notice. Neb Rep Lee Terry, for instance suggested that people unable to find affordable insurance be included in the plan which covers Congress, the executive and other government employees. We could also forbid insurance companies from rejecting clients with previous conditions.

    France allegedly has a good combination of government and private insurance coverage. I hope to check it when I have time. We need to be borrowing from systems which prove to work.

    The Democrats wanted to force the legislation through before voters had a chance to study it. It is good that we have a little more time to consider the bill and its implications. It will affect all of our lives.

  141. “Another Sweetheart Deal for the Insurance Industry”


    “Information and commentary on the politics of aging for pissed-off progressive old folks (and future old folks). . . because we’re not dead yet”

  142. Hi gang,

    Let’s get serious for a moment. Here’s a reminder for all of you. For several months, we have had some sessions with a lawyer, updating our wills, trust, etc., to comply with the more recent changes in Hawaiian law. This lawyer is very, very sharp, very, very thorough and thus very, very busy. The appointments were few and far between. Time well spent.

    We reviewed everything we already had and made our ‘end-of-life-issues’ crystal clear. He brought up a myriad of eventualities we had never even thought of. We have felt all along that this was essential so our sons could avoid the usual hassles encountered in families.

    EVERYTHING has been thrown into the trust and spelled out in MINUTE detail; personal items, family heirlooms, furniture, etc., as well as assets. There will be no necessity for probate. Another lengthy hassle avoided.

    We have copies of the ‘living will’ placed in the hands of our doctor and the local hospital, etc., etc., etc., so there will be no questions whatsoever regarding what our wishes are. These are OUR responsibilities, no one elses.

    Now, these issues are highly personal according to each person’s belief system. We felt it was important to have it all in legalese writing. These are OUR decisions, so no one else can be blamed or carry around a guilt trip for making them. (A few of my decisions are different from my husband’s. We are not in lockstep.)

    When the time comes, we plan to be cremated and have our ashes scattered at our ‘church’, our favorite beach. Figuratively, we will ride the Trade Winds, hand in hand, across the Pacific for all eternity.

    On a more lighthearted note, I still plan to get hit by lightning or a bus. Considering that there are probably not more than a dozen busses on the entire island and they are fairly small and slow, I am still alert enough to watch where I’m going and nimble enough to skip outta the way. So I should be around for quite some time, don’t you think?



  143. Hi Lori,

    Thanks for the smiley link. I’ll try to figure it out.



  144. All kinds of interesting thoughts on the health care debate. Very informative.

    The true mafia are the insurance companies. The only thing these insurance companies do not do, is break your knee like a bookie would, if you were to ow the bookie money. They could care less about your health, they care about profit. Their only aim is for you to contribute premiums and for them to pay less for your care than you have paid in. It is about profits folks! Hence, all the horror stories. Yes, the only way affordable health care could come into play would be to make the insurance companies non-profit. And that is not happening any time soon. Too much money at stake, too many politicians would be made to do without. The horror!

    The writer who suggested visiting systems where the health care debate has resulted in a good working system has a mighty good idea. It would be nice if the people we send to Congress would show some smarts, for a change. However, how are they, with their posturing and all, going to make do without being on TV, being seen raging against socialized medecine? Same old tactics. Let’s get smart. Hope we do not take the bait this time.

  145. he is a self proclaimed expert on all things and lives to point out error of any ways he perceives to be not ‘HIS’ way, the right way. right.

    i wish people would go back in time and realize the blowhard showman is just that. or, maybe he could run for office. wouldn’t that be grand?

    i vote helen and margaret take over his show while he handles an elected office.
    works for me.

  146. sorry, cat walked across keyboard… entertainment showman. he spouted out all of his info and no one was to take him seriously.

    but they did… now he is a self proclaimed expert on all things and lives to point out error of any ways he perceives to be not ‘HIS’ way, the right way. right.

    i wish people would go back in time and realize the blowhard showman is just that. or, maybe he could run for office. wouldn’t that be grand?

    i vote helen and margaret take over his show while he handles an elected office.
    works for me.

  147. rush started out as an ENTERTAINMENT

  148. Resolutions endorsing HR 676, Universal Single Payer Health Care, have been passed by the following union organizations:

    260. UAW Local 909, United Automobile Workers, Detroit, MI

    Even UAW endorses the plan ;-)

  149. Hi gang,

    I’ve been doing grunt work with CNN on in the background most of the day. Get this:

    Tomorrow on Larry King (I rarely see him) Al Sharpton and Ann Coulter will be ‘debating’ the Gates affair.

    That should be good for about a minute and a half of hysterical laughter don’t you think?



  150. You health insurance people will need to retool. Cosmetic and elective medical procedures will still need you. Some can be retrained as people helpers. Then you can be hired under the provision of HB 676. You’ll sleep much better at night. We may not make some of you so wealthy anymore, but you can have a piece of the pie. No worries. I think it can fly.

    How much do you think those insurance lobbyists make? How much do they contribute to campaigns? What gifts are our public servants getting. Any spiffs? All that money not going to health care. What about the drug companies spend. How big of them to self-promote and pass the bill on down. Do they own the FDA yet? Why do you think costs have continually gone up? Who is in control of the spend and keeps making the rules? It certainly is not the American citizen.

    We need to take health care back from the capitalists. We have become a commodity.

  151. and whiny. What is it with the whininess–Hannity is the worst. Whiny AND dumb.

  152. As for letting the insurance companies get in on the action, let’s not forget how they f***ed up Medicare Part D. They got a big fat check from the government just for the hell of it and we signed away our right to negotiate drug prices. What? Keep those asshats out of the pie.

    Keith in NM

  153. Jean here ya go.. :-) http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies

    thanks tine and ImaginistaΔ xo

  154. Hi gang and vgman,

    As a teacher, vgman, does this Latin axiom ring any bells?

    “Quid lucrum istic nihi est?”

    It means, “What’s in it for ME?”

    There’s not a lot of altruism in politics, is there.

    Gotta get busy……



  155. Hi gang, Greytdog and Donna,

    I second your comments on Beck. They apply to Rush, el al too.

    I would put up a smiley face but I don’t know how to do that.



  156. Donna, that too. :)

  157. Beck is also colossally stupid.

  158. TurnThePage, Beck is a classic example of what the DSM-IV states as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Cluster B personality disorder) 301.81 (as does Palin)

  159. Dear Helen and Margaret,
    Here’s something I’d like to know your opinion on: Glen Beck calling Pres. Obama a “racist.” According to Beck, Obama has some deep seated hatred for white people. Whaaaaaaaaat?

  160. you have got to stop listening to Rush! Luckily where I live, Rush is on at the same time as a Dairyland jubilee polka show, and If I ever have to choose between listening to rush or polka’s; I always choose polkas.

  161. The government is in health care already. Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans and military care. These people seem pleased with the care. I know we have had issues with all, but I think we all know they can work.

    All of us together is a pretty large pool. And I know pools. Why can’t we – Americans all- not have the best health care system in the world? I know that’s a double negative, but hear me out…If our government doesn’t work FOR us, then we need to FORCE it to. We were who it was set up for to begin with.

    If you have no confidence in the government, ask yourself – is it the paper or the people you can’t trust. Our laws or our public servants? You prefer to trust insurance companies and drug companies to carve out your own well being? I say no. Not for our health.

    We SHOULD be #1. We are like 37th. And how did we get there? Can’t really blame the government there. Unless you say they should have done this sooner. There now let’s take away all our representatives health care insurance until they can get this right.

  162. Remember there is no Obama bill, there are the House bill and the Senate bill, if they both pass a group of Congressmen and Senators hammer out the details, which will become the law of the land. Assuming of course Obama signs the final bill.

  163. I love you ladies! I just happened across your blog today and I’ve been reading it all day, every chance I’ve gotten! I love your no nonsense, humorous way of putting things, and agree with your points!!

    Can’t wait for your next posts!

  164. O cowardly no-name Anonymous person, Lori is just pointing out the obvious. Her statement about conservatives may not be true on an individual level, but it is true overall. Conservatism is by definition resistance to change, you ninny.

    Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
    Function: noun
    Date: 1835
    1 capitalized a : the principles and policies of a Conservative party b : the Conservative party
    2 a : disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change
    3 : the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change

  165. Anonymous – you accused Lori of lies and talking points, but didn’t back that up with why you disagreed with her. You will find that this is a good forum to air your views even if they differ from the majority. So tell us, what are the Republican ideas for health care reform?

  166. Remember conservatives do NOT want ANY reform. -lori

    Lies and talking points yourself.

  167. Wow…that took awhile to get to the bottom of the page…obviously a good discussion on a great post once again!!! And yes, that even includes the crazies!!! Even though I wish they would go away, we are America after all!

  168. avotresante Δ, I am behind you 100%. The bill in the Senate is SB 703. Get those insurance hands out of the pie! Even though I believe Obama’s plan would eventually morph into something like this, as insurance providers found it less and less profitable competing with a public option, this legislation takes us there. And we can afford it! It is a battle, as the insurance companies will not give ground easily. But anything worthwhile is worth fighting for.

  169. Please check out http://www.hr676.org/ which explains in greater detail why this would be a better program than the Schumer, Leahy, and Durbin plan.

  170. I think HR 676 has possibilities.

    This is a happy day for me. Thanks to the Blue Dogs, we have more time during the recess to make some noise and force our employees to . I have already and will have the phone bill to prove it.

  171. Someone chcek the politics behind this petition? Looks interessting enough…

  172. On Democratic Underground–

    Schumer, Leahy, and Durbin launch website–
    A Call to Action


  173. ◦Reduce Costs — Rising health care costs are crushing the budgets of governments, businesses, individuals and families and they must be brought under control
    ◦Guarantee Choice — Every American must have the freedom to choose their plan and doctor – including the choice of a public insurance option
    ◦Ensure Quality Care for All — All Americans must have quality and affordable health care
    Now we have to show Congress where the American people stand.

    IMHO these are the 3 bedrock principles that must be included in healthcare reform… These are listed On Obama’s website as well as a place to have your voice heard. http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/organizingforhealthcare2?source=vic

  174. *can

  175. Well VG, some might argue that the blue dogs are being true to their constutiants that put them in office, (extremely conservatives) then to party politics.

    Remember conservatives do NOT want ANY reform.

    But again I understand your frustration.

    But please remember healthcare isn’t the only thing we need and want in this country, on about 84 percent of the issues the blue dogs vote with the democrats, I’ll take those numbers.;-)

    I promise you we will get healthcare reform from these blues. LOL if we don’t you can’t give me 100 lashes with a wet noodle.. LOl

  176. Here is one for y’all:


  177. And that’s what I mean by having a backbone!
    Those Blue Dogs are more beholden to special interests (insurance company lobbyists) than they are to their own constituents–even if they are repugs.
    The honorable thing would be to pass meaningful health care reform for ALL Americans and then take the heat from their repug constituents and take the fall.
    But noooooooo…….they want the cozy connection they have already in place.

  178. Anonymus
    … A million + people ralling on the mall when Congress returns from their vacation might catch their attention…..

    Would be the biggest flashmob so far, but with public healthcare as an incentive, that might just work, better start your facebook page now…… and a million in the D.C. area migth just not be all that much…….as I said, that pig could fly!!!

  179. Public option in the health care bill

    Hi all

    I do think it is VERY important to find, or if not out there, CREATE a site that focuses on the public option or the bill in its entity PLUS the public option ONLY.
    There will be tons of “people snatchers” out there trying to lure people behind them to upfront support whatever the people want but in reality supporting their own agendas, pockets, etc.

    So PLEASE, before we direct the masses, get the links up for review, and THEN IF a few of the more politcal savvy approve a site, (best even if they come frome different ends of the spectrum like Poolman, James, Imaginista, Greytdog and Tine. and all the rest (Whirled could help if he ever comes back from his holidays… ;-) ))

    This wouild make pretty sure we’re not being used for a party’s policy.

    And UAW, here’s wher you could create some real input, no left wingers, no right wingers, just concerned citizens…… that’ll be the day!

    Oh Yeah, by the way, let’s not forget to post on the Obama website about whatwe intend to do, that might wake some people too, or at least show them they don’t fight alone……

  180. Yes we can Vgman, and we will..!!!

  181. I appreciate the frustration many of you are feeling concerning the blue dog’s reluctance to get this healthcare reform done before the August break…. I am frustrated as well……

    However, as I mentioned the other day when a roomie expressed their anger towards the blues’ on this issue, we must be careful as a party to not alienate and marginalize the left and right wings of our party. First of all these blue dogs come from extremely conservative districts, there is a 100 percent chance if they weren’t in office a republican would be in their seat. What do you think the chances a repug would be voting for healthcare reform on any level? zero…. At least with the blue dogs, there is a CHANCE of compromise, and a chance for real reform. Please remember Obama’s words “let us not make perfection the enemy of good”‘

    I am hearing from a few friends I have in the house, that eventually the dogs will come along with the pack maybe not 100 percent but enough to make a change.

    Please try to be patience with these guys, because if they weren’t there it would be a repug sitting in their seat…

    I posted a link for everyone to find the closest grassroots movement near you. Please take a peek, and perhaps you can attend or host one of the activities that are going on in your area. That and the petitions that are being circulated online and making calls to your representatives will be the key to our success.

    Yes Jean we can…. ;-) namaste’

  182. This nomiker Blue Dogs is supposed to be based on the theory that they felt “choked” by their party.
    Well, I say that the True Blue Democrats should begin crying foul and fast! We have only a month to generate a passionate call for these “dawgs” to “heel” and “tether” them for good. Not all dogs can always run free. My own two little Shitzus would get run over in a flash on the busy road behind my house.
    What is the best way for us to show the insurance companies that they do not hold sway over the True Blues? Fight them quick and hard with something visual…….
    Like Jean, my Washington reps are mostly on board (at least my district), but we need to find ways to pressure these other devious hounds.
    Can we see a grassroots pressure come to a quick boil in one month? Yes, we can!
    Go True Blue!

  183. Hi gang, vgman, greytdog,poolman, Werner, Grandma Katie, kitkat and anybody else I missed.

    OK. My dander is up now. Greatdog and Keith, I can relate with your horror stories even though it was a long time ago. This morning I refilled a prescription for Skelaxin, the drug I have been taking for the initial Sciatica and the Spinal Stenosis. I am down to only 1/2 of one a day from three full ones a day. I will be weaned off altogether very soon.

    For 60 (sixty) tablets Total price $206.31
    Ins. paid $191.31
    Copay $ 15.00

    My husband’s company’s insurance negitiated YEARS ago with the pharmaceutical companies for the VASTLY reduced rate of our copay.

    What about all the people who have to pay $206.31 out of their pockets – - or SUFFER. And let me tell you, with Sciatica, you suffer!!!! YOU CANNOT WALK!!!! I have finished my PT and had my last Epidural Prednisone shot this afternoon. I am FULLY RECOVERED. Could I have done it without the meds, PT and shots? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!

    The Hawaii Senators and Representatives are on- board-Democrats. So what influence do I have with the Blue Dogs? I think Werner is right about getting a grass roots movement going. We did it last November to get Obama elected and the majority in congress. We only have a month to rally the ‘troops’ and get it going STRONG NOW with the Health Care Bill.

    I’m sure you have all seen the TV commercials put out on just how Ginger Peachy the insurance and pharmaceuticals companies are taking care of us. They are spending jillions of $$$$ and using the usual scare tactics that unfortunately many, many people buy into. We have to counteract that.

    We should be taking on the pharmaceutical companies at the same time we do the insurance companies. We can do it. Spread the word!!!!

    YES WE CAN!!!!!



  184. Greytdog- so sorry about your father and the treatment your mother got.with all the nursing homes in this country multiply all the unnecessary drugs and that are charged rediculous prices for those drugs and arrive at a horrendous amount of money.
    I am currently residing in a Board and Care REsidence. Not a penny covered by insurance. All my savings are gone ,currently getting corporate disability but because of my age it is only good for one year at $250 per month. EVen tho I was in class on Friday and in ER on Monday. First time in 6 1/4 years I had called in sick.
    BTW oldest sson just sent me a great article of the Swine flu and the shots. The pharmaceutical co aare going to make out like fat rats.


  185. I read HR 676 regarding single-payer system and it sure sounds good. Gets rid of the insurance companies for all the basic care and provides health care for everyone. It is not what Obama is pushing, but his former physician approves of it. The cost is much less for individual and business.

    I know it has got some support. The other legislation is being driven by the power of the insurance companies and drug companies, IMO.

  186. Will any of us forget the feeling we had, seeing the Mexican Army march into New Orleans before our own people got there.

  187. Sorry, that last post is mine. Didn’t put my name in first.

  188. Regarding the ‘wouldn’t leave New Orleans” fable –

    Suppose you live there and don’t own a car. The storm is coming and you’ve been told to leave.

    Greyhound has pulled its buses North. Amtrack has pulled out, as well. For financial reasons, you have as much chance of flying out by flapping your arms as you do of getting on a plane. No one will rent you a car, even if there are any left and supposing you have a license.

    Gretna and Jefferson Parish have blockades with armed police preventing pedestrians from walking out over the bridge, although they are permitting cars to pass.

    Now – leave. Go on, leave. But if you do – please, tell me how.

    This is a myth perpetuated by heartless bastards who didn’t care if they all died.

  189. yuppers there it is. my new avatar. for now.

  190. here is another way to volunteer.


  191. Howard Dean will be hosting “Countdown” tonight & tomorrow on MSNBC while Keith is on vacation. Should be interesting. I just got his book “Howard Dean’s Prescription for Real Healthcare Reform”. What I’ve had a chance to read so far has been excellent.

  192. You are the coolest ladies ever…keep rocking it!

  193. nope. try again. see ya in awhile.

  194. Just seeing if my avatar changed or not. been having some problems with wordpress. . .

  195. IF you go to the Mall, don’t go in the water. It’s contaminated. Sort of an apropos setting for Congress

  196. Anonymous, great idea!

  197. A million + people ralling on the mall when Congress returns from their vacation might catch their attention.

  198. Someone on CNN just suggested all representatives go back in August and spend three days per week in a local ER. Then come together and sort out the problems.

    Good idea. Give them an assignment. They are our public servants after all. Isn’t it “We the People”?

  199. Werner, I Agree!! I have no website skills but am a good volunteer.

    “I think. if we can help feed the villages, we may just be able to help the “people” get the healthcare they realy need as opposed to what the corporations want us to “feed”!

  200. Here’s a couple of sites already up:



  201. Hello all,
    I just joined the following page on Facebook (Support a Public Option in US Health Care) that had a link to Howard Dean’s and Moveon.org’s website (http://pol.moveon.org/standwithdrdean/). They had a petition re: the public option as well as ways to volunteer to focus on this issue. Dean is really pushing for the public option. Might be the best group to rally behind. If someone else finds another spot, be sure to post it.

  202. I keep sending emails. They say they read them and consider them, I hope so. I keep trying to be civil about it. I don’t like what I hear in the news regarding the debates. I wish we could hold all their paychecks or suspend their insurance until we get what we are asking for. I hope that everyone is sending them letters or emails or making phone contact.

    Sure wish we could all stop their income and let them know we want results. Sure wish we could reign in the insurance companies. Anyone got any ideas?

  203. I think. if we can help feed the villages, we may just be able to help the “people” get the healthcare they realy need as opposed to what the corporations want us to “feed”!

  204. Anyone in for a coordinationg web site along the lines of the mudflaters?
    (I can’t, I am German / Canadian after all)

  205. IF we can all, more or less, agree that what the US needs is apublic option in health care, then here is what we got to do (vgman, greytdog and all):

    Prepare now and start a grassroot movement for the public options that is slowly but regularly building up pressure now and kicks into full gear as soon as your congress comes out of summer stupor….

    A few letters to one or an other senator may scare one or the other into submission, but a couple of HUNDRET THOUSAND people stirred up through our grassroot movement and makeing themselfs heard, THAT should move things a wee bit more, don’t you think?

  206. UAW–
    Preston Brookes had no right to attack Sen. Sumner on the Senate Floor. Granted, that Sen. Sumner directed some attacks of a personal nature towards Mr. Brookes’ uncle, a fellow senator–it did not give him the right to physically assault someone who was using their right of free speech on the Senate Floor.
    It was an honor thing. For Sumner, it was a slap to his anti-slavery views; and for Brookes, a challenge to the North.
    I don’t think we need brawls over the Health Care Reform discussion. But representatives who seriously take their oath of office as legislators for the promotion of the common welfare of our people.

  207. Baucus is refusing to provide a public option, yet MANDATES that individuals BUY insurance.

    And pray tell, how am I supposed to do that? If I could BUY insurance, asshat, & still pay my other bills, I would have.

  208. Greytdog:

    Yes, Halcyon actually increases and sometimes even causes the dementia. I helped my ex care for his mother in her last three years of Alzheimer’s and they had her on Halcyon the entire time. It wasn’t until about the last year that we discovered the truth about the drug and by then changing would have been futile. But it’s another drug to be avoided at all costs.

    Back to Healthcare…
    Re: Fun with insurance. All this debate about the gov’t being the one to make choices for us is a laugh! What do you think the HMO’s and insurance companies are already doing? It’s called denial of coverage and often is even more criminal in nature.

    Four years ago I had a minor out-patient procedure to remove three cysts from my scalp. All of this was pre-approved by my insurance. But then they didn’t pay. The bill went to collections, of course, and those people were actually quite nice. Then I got a letter from the INS saying they were denying my claim as I’d not responded to a request from them for additional information. I had never received such. I kept a detailed file of every phone call, when and who I spoke with as well as every piece of mail I received from anyone concerning the whole procedure. The INS rep said she’d re-send. Didn’t receive. Called back and the next rep said well she could see that it couldn’t be re-sent as the document had never been ‘created’ in their system to send in the first place. She said she’d ‘create’ the doc and send. Didn’t get. I called back and asked for a supervisor; that rep asked if she’d offended me and I explained that she hadn’t, it was just a supervisor call. I got the supervisor on the phone, explained in detail each and every phone call (who, when, etc.) and that I KNEW they were screwing me around expecting me to roll over and just pay the bill myself and that they’d picked the wrong bitch to play that game with. I got the number to her direct line and personal fax number and gave it to the hospital and doctors that were waiting to get paid. I also told her if the matter wasn’t resolved in ten working days my next call would be to my attorney (don’t have one, dated a few, but that’s another story). Guess what, it got paid, FAST!

    So, if we think what we have now is the cat’s meow, then someone’s been pissing on the cat!

    Keith in NM

  209. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks


    maybe we need more of this in congress

  210. Reid sides with the Blue Dogs. Blue Dogs side with the Republicans. There will be no public option – insurance lobby wins again. And thus shall it ever be.

    We are now seriously considering our options – we feel we no longer have any choice – if we want to live.

  211. Sorry, y’all, but these BLUE DOGS have me going.
    I just did some reading about Senator Charles Sumner from Massachussetts. He lived from 1811–1874. He devoted his service as a senator to many causes that helped the common welfare of people in the United States.
    I keep bringing up common welfare because our Constitution begins with a dedication to the promotion of it.
    If any of these BLUE DOGS had an ounce of the humanity that Senator Charles Sumner had–they would hold on dear to that……
    It’s the most important characteristic about a person when all is said and done.

  212. You go, Greytdog!
    We need more of us to take that spirit and hound these Blue Dogs. Today. We should not let a few select individuals force the cave in of universal coverage as an option for ANY of the 300 million people in this country.

    At this juncture, the Blue Dogs can truly live up to the honor they knew would come with the office of representation and do the right thing.

    But, alas, their actions lately reveal their insidious natures–too focused on their own lot in life rather than the public for which they serve.

    Where are the backbones and common sense of these individuals? Don’t they recognize that a life lived in honor is worth more than an ill-begotten life of comfort?

    Quality of life is not just a product to be purchased–it’s a mindset.

  213. Grandma Katie – you’re so correct! When my dad broke his hip & had to be moved to a skilled nursing facility in the retirement community they lived in, the anesthesia from the hip op exacerbated his Alzheimers. He would have periodic bouts of xtreme dementia; my dad’s nurse called me up and told me to come now. So I hightailed it up there, and as their medical advocate I brought along the court order to see and review all medical records. And in my review discovered they had been dosing him with halcyon!!! totally contraindicated for Alzheimers! I raised holy hell – the prescribing MD told me they give it to all the patients to “keep them biddable”!!!! Thank god for the nurses who kept passing me notes telling me what exactly to look for during my review. . . they were also charging him for 4 liters of lactated ringers per day @ $75per bag, but he was receiving only half a bag in the evening. He had bedsores cuz the facility was warehousing and didn’t have enough staff; & the staff there was run ragged. I kicked up a real fuss – my brother came down, my cousin who practices eldercare law came into town, and guess what happened? The facility very subtly threatened my mother with homelessness if she didn’t get us to pipe down. When I finally got her to tell me why she was so scared. . .totally out of character for wundermom – we went charging into the CEO’s office with a friend of mine who works for a local news station. It’s been two years since my dad died and wundermom moved to Maryland, but I am still in contact with the nursing staff and still try to all I can to advocate for those patients and their nurses.

  214. Greytdog
    The Shattner link is superb!!!!!!

  215. If you want helth care prices to drop why not start with the Drs that prescribe medicine for the elderly in nursing homes. Many of the prescriptions are unneeded. IMO the drugs are to keep them sedated. And then the pharmaciists who cater to the Drs because that is “business” and those people are old and going to die anyway.

  216. Greytdog
    …If you really really have to have that 48oz rare prime rib with a footlong russet potato slathered in 1/4 cup of butter and 16oz of sour cream – by all means, go right ahead. But make sure there is at least a 10%tax on that baby. ..

    What you trying to do here? Put me on a diet? Only 48oz of meat? well you can keep that potato and sour cream…BUT STAY OF MY MEAT!


  217. Greytdog

    My advice, move your “butt” to Canada before the next attack, you still can spend 184 days a year in FL as a snowbird (184 days is max before loosing your residence) and the cooler climate is better for your heart (he, he ,he and snow shoveling is all the excercise you’d need…..;-P )

    just a thought, but it WOULD take care of the healthcare problem…..

  218. I just contacted both my senators and expressed my disappointment in the lack of a public option. I urge you all to do the same.

  219. I’m also going to hold my president accountable for a very clear statement in last week’s press conference:
    “I will veto a bill that does not have access to health care for ALL Americans.”
    Sounds like yesterday’s deliberations dropped two key Democratic proposals.
    Looks like a veto coming, unless

  220. I checked out the Blue Dogs website and it talks about “mainstream American values”.
    How much more mainstream can 300 million people be as opposed to 50 or so Democrats?
    If the public were given a gov’t option for health care, I think a lot of those 300 million people would choose it. And now there’s only a handfull who are stopping true reform.
    The reform is spoiled by the dirty hands of these Democrats. Greed is going to be their downfall.

    It wasn’t long ago that Americans were upset (and still are in this economy) for the way that Wall Street f#@*$d over the dreams of many average “mainstream” Americans.

    These Blue Dogs NEED TO GO in this next round of elections. Do we have anybody stellar enough to rout them out?

  221. For your morning amusement (warning: do not watch while drinking any beverages)

    Williams Shatner recites Palin’s Farewell Speech in “Palin as Poetry”


  222. From the Daily Beast Blue Dog Bozos http://bit.ly/lwWfe

    GOP are the Dog Whisperers for the Blue Dogs. . .
    I personally think the Dems need to open a spay/neuter clinic on Capital Hill. . .

  223. Good morning America, It’s time to wake up and smell the roses. However, the smell coming out of DC is the stench of our piggy politicians sweating to rush to the feed trough which is full of rotten lobbyists.

    Apparently while Bush occupied himself with terrorism since he couldn’t multitask, our prominent congressmen were taking over the reins of controlling this country and have no intention of letting go of their control.

    Right on Greytdog, none of them give a rat’s ass about you and me. However, if the people of America could rise up and elect a black man for POTUS, with the right leadership why can’t they rise up and demand that members of Congress start being Public Servants.

    As Poolman said it’s not just about health care reform anymore, it’s about money and power.

    Mavis, that was pretty funny but UAW really hit a sore spot with me on his comments about Katrina. Members of my family were involved in rescue efforts in NOLA for over two years because of the failings of “Brownie” no thanks to Bush. No UAW, Bush couldn’t stop it but he sure could have helped pick up the pieces.

    Interesting piece on NPR yesterday about the “birthier” movement regarding what are the real reasons behind the movement. Is it a way to lead the Repubs back to power or a way to stop illegal aliens from birthing American citizens? Very interesting theories were discussed.

    All of the above comments lead back to the stench coming out of our Capitol.

  224. Can we say powerful insurance lobby? I think our senators represent the people with lip service only. Money is the great motivator. I hope everyone is giving them a piece of their mind.

    “After weeks of secretive talks, a bipartisan group in the Senate edged closer Monday to a health care compromise that omits a requirement for businesses to offer coverage to their workers and lacks a government insurance option that President Barack Obama favors, according to numerous officials”


  225. Hi Gang,

    I’m of course disappointed that they have postponed the House Health Care bill. So it’s probably back to square one again for now.

    Just a few thoughts about some of the objections, especially regarding ‘Government Bureaucrats.’
    Who do you think does all the paper grunt work for the insurance companies? Employees, or could be dubbed ‘Insurance Bureaucrats’.

    If and when the Health Care bill is inacted, there will have to be people in charge, the equivalent of insurance company CEOs. If I recall correctly, many of them receive astronomical salaries plus bonuses plus stock options, blah, blah, blah.

    The salary of the president is $400,000 a year I think. Now, NO government employee’s salary can exceed that of the president!

    Government run Health Care would be in competition with some of the still existing insurance companies. If those wanted to stay in business, they would have to provide similar benefits with that of the government. Capitalism at its best!!!

    A win-win proposition with the American people being the beneficiaries of such a system.

    Why not?



  226. http://www.dirtytarsands.org

    above site is about the tar sands extraction on the athabascan river.
    this extraction of crude oil is poisoning the water table and leaching
    toxins into the river. it is killing the indigenous people there with rare cancers and causing the babies to be born deformed.

    the pipeline for this oil and the chemicals used in the extraction process runs under the headwaters of the mississippi river. the largest river source of freshwater on this continent. there was a spill here on the leech lake rez in 2002, it has never been cleaned up. the enbridge corp. just purchased the land and put a fence around it. they claim that cleaning it up would ‘jeopardize’ the railroad tracks, interupting the rail system. the toxins are now seeping into the groundwater.

    please check out the site and think about giving hillary a hollow.

    say no to extraction!!

  227. My wife and I do not have health insurance right now. Until the economy picks up, we can’t afford the premiums every month. We have over the years gone from times of having coverage, to not, to not sure, to no not for that, and only if that coverage. Thank God we are healthy. But we should still get regular check-ups. We are long overdue. We do the local blood screening tests to track our health.

    As a small business, when I had employees we did not offer health insurance. Now we have no employees, so no biggie there. We would like to be able to offer health coverage in the future. Things will need to change drastically for that to happen.

    The last company that insured us had charged us for a month in advance and then charged us again. I spent 6 months with them and never could get them to credit that $500.00 back. The deductibles were outrageous and we dropped them because the only thing they knew how to do well was debit our checking account.

  228. But – guess what? Baucas doesn’t give a rats ass about you or me or anyone except the lobbyists:

    Senate Finance Committee Dropping Dem Health Goals: AP http://bit.ly/2eptij

  229. Poolman, if they can raise the tax on cigarettes & chewing tobacco (but cigars are exempt!) and claim that raising taxes will bring down teenage smoking rates. . .then they can and should use the same argument to raise taxes on soda, snack foods, high-fat foods, high-sodium foods, and fast food. And any restaurant that chooses to serve up portions meant to feed a village should have to pay a surtax to do so. If you really really have to have that 48oz rare prime rib with a footlong russet potato slathered in 1/4 cup of butter and 16oz of sour cream – by all means, go right ahead. But make sure there is at least a 10%tax on that baby. ..

  230. We should probably make McDonalds pay for a big chunk of our health care. They are doing very well in this economy. Maybe a dime for every burger. Millions served. Or get rid of the subsidies on corn syrup. That and the high fructose corn syrup really screws with our national health. That stuff is in everything. Look at the crap we put in our bodies, and we expect better results. Look how much we pay for the food at the ballpark, or a fair. We could snag a buck off every footlong chili cheese dog. A cap and trade of food product producers based on nutritional value vs. artery plaque output.

  231. LOL!!!

  232. Mavis T., LMAO! Made me spit out my tea!

  233. Well, I don’t think there really is any type of coverage that would pay for UAW’s pre-existing condition in the first place. So I don’t think he has room to talk. Maybe I’m wrong. Does Medicare cover Shit for Brains??

  234. ‘……but I never, ever hear of a patient loosing their home in Canada because they had health bills to pay….’

    Thank you Dr Riddle for offering your wisdom! the problem is that we have more fun taking years splitting hairs with obvious lack of concern for those who suffer or denial of how much it REALLY costs us to support funding emergency room visits..

    insurance companies, with very few exceptions, are for those who are healthy and NOT for those who get sick, go ahead and have a catastrophic illness and see how much your insurance company will be there for you

    UAW please stop posting lies, the people COULDNT LEAVE NOLA, not
    ‘they wouldnt leave NOLA’ i have many friends there and should know, you really piss me off sometimes with your BS

  235. I would love a public option (reasons obvious above) – and frankly, I’d be willing to pay a VAT or even a higher tax rate in order to provide such a thing. Since SO is a native-born German with family there, and I have family in Scotland and in Canada, we have seriously considered moving overseas – for health care. Our families think we are both insane to stay – but we happen to love this country and would like to see it become a leader in health care coverage & accessibility. SO has the VA (which is often catch as catch can at the local clinic but the Tampa VA is sterling) but even then you have to stay on top of everything. I wish people would understand that making health care coverage accessible and affordable to everyone is simply and merely the first step. Then we have to address such things as basic coverage – wellness coverage -dental care- mental health – end-stage coverage, etc. We also have to understand and deal with the fact that the attrition rate for family providers is growing – limiting care even more. Right now, in FL, AETNA & Blue Cross have over 90% of the health insurance market. That’s not free market – that’s monopoly. In W/C gallagher insurance practically owns the market. And if you are in a PPO or HMO or PPP, you’re already being rationed and under managed care. It may feel like you have no middleman, but you do. Read the fine print. Even those with catastrophic care are rationed.

  236. There you have it folks, one of our own would benefit from a public option. Another one would too, although he is too dense to recognize it, UAW was just griping the other day about his co-pay.

  237. I had a wonderful, compassionate, and extremely skilled OB Gyn. He’s no longer practicing in the state of FL because Malpractice insurance skyrocketed. When he “retired” there was a 2-year waiting list of folks who wanted him to be their doc. It was a really sad day for all of us. personally speaking, I think a malpractice suit should automatically include revocation of the license to practice (especially in cases of negligence) & damages based on need for future medical care. BUT in FL obgyn practices say their insurance skyrocket when folks were taking fertility meds and then were astounded that they were having litters instead of one baby. Sheesh. A bit like a long-term smoker claiming they never knew smoking was bad for them.

  238. Anne? I wonder how much your Ob-Gyn’s medical malpractice insurance went up during that four-year span between Child #1 and Child #2? Some doctors drop the Obstetrics part of their practice due to the high cost of med-mal insurance. (And I don’t blame them.)

    Isn’t tort reform a side-bar to the “cost of health care” issue?

  239. That is not right.
    We need a better system.

    It is time to get it right.

  240. I don’t have health insurance. Pre-existing condition & self-employed. When I was having chest pains, went to ER. After an EKG & 6 hours of waiting, I decided if my condition was life-threatening I would have been taken care of. . .so I left. The triage nurse was very upset – his statement (and I kid you not): “If you were 80, we wouldn’t care. but you’re not. So you should stay. We want to admit you for observation”. I thanked him politely and left. Made an appt with my MD who takes self-pay patients. Had to find a cardiologist – first referral didn’t take self-pay. 2nd referral did – and then chastised me for not being admitted to the hospital. IF i had stayed at the hospital, cost would have been about $10K (what with tests, scans, room/board, etc). No stay – so far the cost has been about half that. Luckily I had $$ assets to tap into – but now have to work twice as hard and twice as much to regain that plus lay up some for another “just in case” moment. meanwhile, I’ve become fatalistic – if the next heart attack kills me, it kills me. That’s the gamble I have to take – since I can’t get insurance.

  241. I spend all day listening to NPR at work and obviously there has been a lot of discussion about Health Care Reform. Some of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard as these: Private insurance companies should be non-profit, such as Kaiser, so that they respond to their customers, not their shareholders. Everyone should have to buy coverage, even the young and healthy, so there is money for the older and sicker (kind of the way Social Security works). This is what all countries with socialized medicine do. No one can opt out. Doctors shouldn’t be paid per service. This encourages them to do unnecessary tests which drive up the cost of health care and don’t improve quality for patients. It also gives us a very poor rating as far as quality of care for chronic illnesses. Primary care doctors should get paid more and specialists less so more doctors will go into primary care, which would keep the price of care down. Competition in health care doesn’t keep prices down. When you’re sick, you don’t have time to shop around. Competition with a public plan would, because private insurers would have to find ways to be save money or go out of business. For those of you who have been reading the bills, are you seeing any of these reforms in there?

    As a side note, I gave birth to my daughter in January. I had to request bills from the hospital for my FSA. The bills totaled $9749, and that was for the hospital. I paid my own doctor $1300 for the delivery, and that was after what insurance paid. Altogether, I paid over $2000 out of pocket. Thank god for insurance. When my son was born 4 years earlier, I paid $1000. Both times, I was told I’d be responsible for 10% of the total bills. The cost of having a baby doubled in 4 years. And we have good health coverage.

  242. Werner Underwear, you are a hoot! You should be in the business of show! You funny man. Man? You are Man?? Funny you are.
    UAW is asshat. Yes!

  243. We have a lot of crabbiness today. What’s up with that?

  244. And your comments are soooooooo much better, Werner.

  245. speaking of Limbaugh, today he got on a rant about “health nazis” going after certain food. And he then said that they’d go after Oreos, then stopped himself and said not during this administration. Every time you think he’s hit the bottom of the barrel, he goes lower.

  246. BTW for all in a more peacefull mood:

    I posted an other of my songs on my blog, called Mimi’s Song, follow the link through my name if you wanna hear….
    And really, not angry at all……

  247. Ah Donna
    today he was asking for it, and knowing me, if I am in a cranky mood, I LOVE to oblige……. and he didn’t wanted to jump on the help-handle I threw him (How are you paying….)
    So, ask for a bashing, get a free one…..or something along these lines.

    People here, incl. UAW, know me long enough and how to take that…. I hope!

  248. I know, I know. But UAW does have alot on his plate. I don’t agree with him but I think you are being a wee bit harsh. Just my opinion but I don’t view him as one of the genuine putzes.

  249. AND…..
    Monday morning, 1/4 past 7, and the week just doesn’ wanna end…..

    But what else is new?

  250. Yup
    UAW’s brainless rants got me today…….

  251. Werner–you are very crabby today.

  252. Hannah T.

    Do you wear a swastika on your PYs?

    Sounds a whole lot like Euthanasia to me…..

    But maybe “Soilent Green” IS the solution… for you!

  253. UWA
    your a such an arse!

    ….France has a good system….guess what happened a few years back when it got warm…..you didn’t forget did you…..was it 10,000 dead or 15,000……..

    I WAS in France for work that summer, in Orleans, where there was nearly NO private or public Airconditioning available and aside a few supermarkets (Hugh dept. stores) and some few bars, eldery people wherer runnuning all day in the electric streetcars, since THEY where all modern and HAD ariconditioning…. (We are talking 42 – 45 Degrees Celsisius (I think in the 110s or 120s) from mid July until late August).

    And You have to blame it on the heakth care system…..arsehole!

  254. Lori,
    Thanks for a well-written summary of our true focus–changing the way things are “done” in Washington, D.C. I am so tired of politicians who refuse to use their backbones and make decisions
    for the “common welfare” of this country. If my representatives do not vote for Health Care Reform soon, I’ll be having conversations that lead to non-support for them in the coming elections. I understand that we won’t always agree, however, providing health care for citizens is such a necessity that any shred of evidence revealing interactions of health care industries and lobbying efforts to influence their vote would cement my refusal to vote for them again in the future.
    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS. Get to work or get rid of them.

    Happy Monday!

  255. UWA
    please write down ALL your thoughts on health care!
    Then print them!
    Then roll ‘em real tight….
    ….and shove ‘em where the sun won’t shine!

    Please go get a brain!

    HOW are you covering costs at your place?

  256. Poolman
    …Are there health insurance companies in Canada or France?…..

    Yes there are lot’s, we have a two tier system, where the basic care is provided by the state and if you want better (mostly read that: FASTER) care you or the Company you work for pays for an ADDITIONAL plan, where you pay less for medication used, can use private service instaed of waiting your time in a hospital, have more parametics paid (osthteopath, massage accupunctures, etc. mostly between 50 and 80% paid depending on plan)

    Now BOTH systems do NOT affect emergency care, this is fast and free for anybody anytime.

  257. Greytdog
    …Werner, loved the Bush joke. Do you have his phone number for me?….

    Mot sure, you could try
    but again, I am not so sure it’ll work…….

    maybe online 411 could help?


  258. I just fell on the floor laughing after reading this post and then moving on to older posts. Thank you ladies for giving me a great start to my morning.

  259. The Republican peeps are never get what they want, a return to the nineteenth century, but they are easily led by slogans, goo for brains.

  260. Margaret and Helen are brilliant!!
    Majority of commenters..not so much.

  261. James, You are such a huge asshat. I’ve never seen the likes of you! Amazing.

  262. I apologize in advance for the lengthy post. I am spending some time at the beach and have limited access to a computer, so I am posting all at once… Some may feel the need to scroll baby scroll, can’t say I blame them.. LOL

    I admire the people that have had the patience over the last few days to try YET again to sort through rhetoric and determine the issues that have been repeated over and over and over again by a couple of posters. They really are just silly talking points and manufactured red herrings. I thank you for your efforts and williness to try to establish a reasonable debate though.

    Please understand these issues are calculated attack lines meant to distract the American people from the important work our nation has to do and dummy down the conversation.

    The GOP has a vested interest in blocking non private health insurance, and it isn’t out of FEAR of socialism, it is out of fear that their campaign money will dry up. Health Insurance, pharmicutical, AMA, corp. hospital lobbys have a LOT of money and they have a LOT at risk. Their cartel is soon to be broken and they will stop at nothing to try and avoid that from occuring.

    In January, between 76-83 percent of the American people believed we needed SOME type of healthcare reform. Obama was elected on that platform. Those were huge numbers, and a very popular man, the GOP had to combat in order to keep their pockets lined. They had no choice but to go with what has worked in the past for their party: fear mongering, we all remember the run up to the war, and when that doesn’t work just lie.

    A while back when FOX news took a few politicians comments about the stimulus bill “being passed so quickly they barely had a chance to read the bill”, and reported it over and over and over, it went viral, and the GOP saw some ground by using this tactic. Hence a new GOP tactic was born… So guess what we will be hearing for the next 4 years????

    Does anyone here REALLY believe President Obama is the type of man that wouldn’t read a bill? Perhaps the MOST important bill in the 21 century???Pleassssssssssse….

    Debate, discuss, read, and discern, call your congressman/woman, jump up and down and sing Yankee doodle, do anything you want, but PLEASE do not become distracted by political tactics. Remain focused. Ignore the shiny object in the room. It really is all the opposition to has.

    It is time for us to change the course remain vigilant. WE MUST have access to affordable healthcare in this country. namaste’

  263. Yes, Jean, I am as certain we would have “won” the war in Vietnam as I was that the surge and other developments would bring us victory in Iraq. More better informed people have told me the same thing.

    Most likely we would have ended with a stalemate similar to Korea’s with a permanently divided country as the peace treaty gave us. Had that happened South Vietnam would have become equivalent to South Korea, and we would have escaped the side effects of our defeat–Pol Pot, for example. Neither of us will convince the other, of course.

    I am only telling my representatives what I don’t like about the House bill. They know what I agree with because I told them. Presenting a detailed health plan would be a waste of my time, and you know it.

    Strange that you mention Mensa. Our commander suggested I apply. I took a test for fun and passed. Moderators told me the next test would get me in. I wasn’t interested. I’m not that smart. Why would I want to join an elitist organization like Mensa?

    Jenny, I would never do that without proof you were sterilized in an autoclave. I don’t know where you’ve been.

    Captain, so you are the self appointed moderator now. Do you really believe a nasty post would drive me away? Learn to scroll and use it, you fool. Why would you waste time reading something you don’t want to read? You might consider a more appropriate handle, “private.” Use the time saved in skipping my posts to learn to tie your shoes.

  264. Americans have a hard time copying other countries. We feel the need to plow through new ground. With this health care stuff, we should stick to ground that has already been cleared, tilled, and irrigated, IMO. I wrote to my senators and representative and the president. I hope everyone is doing the same. I can’t believe how many people want to leave it the way it is – broken. You guys get this all figured out for morning, ok? G’nite.

  265. Amen, sisters.

  266. James. Kiss my ass.

  267. Funny stupid.

  268. Jesus. What others are saying abut you UAW is right. You have no idea what you are talking about. I live in New Orleans. You were told to leave if you could and if you couldn’t you were told to go to the shelters. The poorest in the city went to the sheltes and then the government left them there without food or water. And now you want to offer the advice that France should put AC in elderly homes???? Aa a people… as a nation, air conditioning is not a staple. They live in a indoor/outdoor environment it is a way of life. The abnomral heat wave was just that…abnormal.

    You then jump into a ill-informed argument on healtcare. You don’t make any sense whatsoever.

    I gotta tell you UAW – I agree with the others – your ignorance is showing big time – quit while you are behind… way behind.

  269. tine…
    since you brought up Katrina…..
    what was Bush supposed to do…stand on a levee and hold up his hand to stop it…..the people were told to leave and they didn’t….Mayor Negal really did those people a favor…didn’t Houston get pounded last year with a lot less loss of life…..seems like they had 8 lanes of traffic leaving the area…..
    and I don’t know why France didn’t have air conditioning in the old folks homes…..they have the nuclear reactors to power them….so when we get gov health care what is going to be left out or forgotten or the big problem….who is going to run it and get the prestige that goes with it….right now there are hospitals fighting with county health depts who are fighting the state health dept. who is fighting the regional whose fighting the federal…….google city readiness initiative and strategic national stockpiles…..

  270. Children peeing on the porch again. . . sheesh.

  271. Funny strange, or funny ha ha?

  272. Funny how you can’t back up those comments.

  273. got my comments didn’t I….
    Melissa…2 sizes smaller than yours…..

  274. [...] Helen Philpot has a very funny posting on Walter Cronkite [...]

  275. wha she say

  276. UAW and JAMES….what size Asshat do you two wear?? Just curious….

  277. Hit “submit” too soon. Just to be clear, paragraph #2 of my last comment was directed at UAW, not Poolman. Over and out, folks. Morning comes too soon in this house!

  278. Tine….do you have connections??? Let’s get M&H published!!!! They need a book!!!!! :-)

  279. If you need me…call me…wherever you are…no matter how far…


  280. Oh yes, Poolman, I am only too aware of that. Some of you know I’m a book editor. Hard science is one of my specialties, and I’ve had a close look at the raw data supporting anthropogenic climate change. I didn’t dare mention that correlation to UAW because I couldn’t stand yet another onslaught of his non-rational thinking on yet another issue.

    As for the elderly French who were under the government’s care…. What….the healthcare system should have known that anomaly was coming? Should have had some magical antidote ready? Do you really think our stellar healthcare system would have handled that situation better? Jeez, we did such a good job with Katrina; I’m sure we could’ve outdone those stupid little froggies at this….

  281. Wha he say

  282. You people are cruel to one another. Not very nice on this blog. You have the difference of opinion and yet you do not speak to each other with the respect. If you speak with respect then you can make one another understand better. Except for UAW person. He shit for brains.

  283. The Captain is in!

    I’ve been waiting for someone to post that!!!!

  285. What HE said…

  286. James, I agree with TLC. Get a life or get some friends. Whatever it takes to bring your posts on this site down to a normal and tolerable level. Jeez a few of you are full of yourselves… and clearly for no good reason.

  287. UAW. You are living proof that idiots live too long and have too much to say. Most people in France (and Europe) don’t have air conditioning. Several hunderd eldery die in the US from heat each year not becuase of our great healthcare system, but rather our fantastic climate controlled existence which by the way adds to our huge carbon footprint which makes the globe hotter.

    Honestly, if you are going to make a point, use the brain God gave you for something other than a hat rack. You go on and on on this site pretending to know what you are talkign about when you don’t. Please start all your posts with “This is my opinion only and should not be taken as fact.” God I wish Rush and Fox News would do the same.

  288. Hannah T…..
    TLC has an excuse…..what’s your’s…..you are apparently smart enough to read….
    Maybe what we need it for the gov to take over catastrophic illnesses and the huge bills($100,000 a pop) and then lower the other insurance…in MI. we have a catastrophic charge on autos….doesn’t matter what it is each car gets charged the same…I think we can agree that if the costs were less more people would have insurance…and companies would more likely pay for insurance…..since people say we should try to come up with ideas how about giving everyone insurance and lowering the minimum wage to pay for it(it’s part of the wage package)…..I guess that will bring out a few comments…..

  289. Hi gang and James,

    Comin’ up for air from reading the Health Care bill.

    I haven’t read it all yet, but so far, if it were within my power to vote, I would be inclined to vote for it. There are items in it I have NO way of knowing in order to affirm or refute. Further, I have no way of knowing what changes or amendments will be in the final draft.

    Now, my husband and I, as well and members of our family, have excellent coverage of everything except dental and visual. So very little of it would apply to us. However, it would be ever so short-sighted and selfish for us not to consider the millions of people who do not. What benefits society as a whole, ultimately benifits us too. What is detrimental to society at large could ultimately come back and bite us in the ass.

    James, you have related here over and over and over and over again your experiences during the Vietnam War. If the presidents and generals had listened to and taken YOUR advice, can you be ASSURED that the U.S. would have ‘won’ that war?

    Have you submitted YOUR DETAILED and LENGTHY alternate Health Care Reform plan to Sen. Harkins or anyone else for that matter?

    Just out of curiosity, are you a member or have you ever been eligible for Mensa?



  290. One thing I can guarantee you Hannah T. is, if you are lucky, you’re going to get there too. Hope that is welcome news.

  291. I think page 78-82 explains the situation to the point where anybody who would oppose this solution would need to completely understand both sides of the issue. That really doesn’t leave room for compromise. And I believe that is where the problem will arise and continue to arise until someone can come up with a better solution. Until then I think they will have to look at pages 126 – 129 for a cleaner solution. At least one that will better please each side of the both issues at hand. I still fear that if these changes are not put into effect soon then nothing will be done and there will be no further movement in a more positive direction. I don’t think a time limit is the answer. We are too close to a solution at this point. I think the real problem is that there are still too many ancient dinosaurs around, like UAW, who should have died out years ago and now are only a waste of good food.
    Honestly…you people should have been shit dust by now….really. I mean it.

  292. UAW, what does that mean, the docs could have issued a chill pill? Maybe they needed AC’s and they were on back order from the US company who was waiting on the Chinese circuitry and the Malaysian crew to assemble them and drop ship them to France.

    A heat wave, similar to an earthquake, tornado, flood, etc., are disasters we don’t much have control over at this point in time. Now education helps. Tsunami helped learn some. But usually after the fact. I would suspect France could better ward off the same type of disaster in the future, if they took note. But this was unlike any weather they had experienced until that time.

  293. Saw a great Lewis Black skit last week on Daily Show, some congressman saying one out of five people will die if we get socialized medicine. Black’s comment was, “five out five people will die no matter what we do.” So true.

  294. Read TLC’s comments from the last post and then decide if it’s a troll. I wouldn’t even repost them.

  295. James,
    The way I read page 16 is that health plans that don’t meet the applicable requirements can grandfather-in participants, but cannot accept new ones. So, if a plan excludes pre-existing conditions, it is not meeting the new requirements and can’t add new participants. Start at page 14 for a clearer understanding. If you look at page 76-77, you can see that any plan that meets the requirements will be part of choices in the clearinghouse of plans. It is all about the requirements that will be placed on insurance companies.

    As for the heat wave in 2003 in Europe, I was in the UK at the time, and it has everything to do with not knowing how to deal with the heat and nothing to do with the health system. We had a difficult time convincing my mother-in-law that she needed to drink lots of fluids. As I recall, there were deaths in the US too.

  296. and a lot of elderly French in old folks homes…..that means they were under the gov’s care and not their own……..
    and TLC…I like you too

  297. Δ Tine, you know they blame that heat on global warming and you know that is all left wing BS.

  298. UAW…you mean, like stop breathing…the CO2 is warming the planet???

    Blow hard….you old shit.

  299. There you go again, UAW, drawing asinine correlations. Lots of people did die in France’s heat wave (14,800+ in 2003). Naturally, this is the fault of France’s healthcare system, not the freakishly hot weather in a country that NEVER has weather that hot and therefore has little to no air conditioning.

  300. UAW, It was a heat wave that killed those people in France. Hot weather. Not socialized medicine. They could not handle it, since they were not used to it.

    But as is with the French, most of the doctors were on holiday that time of year.

  301. People, please stop bitching and start listening!!

    Canadian health care for all U.S. citizens

    I heard Mary Scott of Mount Vernon interviewed on Canadian Broadcasting Corp. radio. She wrote The Vancouver Sun asking Canadians to write The Seattle Times with the truth about our health care.

    I am a family physician in Ontario, and I hear complaints about waiting. But I also hear great compliments about how the system came through in spades when there was a major need in one’s health. Nothing is perfect, but I never, ever hear of a patient loosing their home in Canada because they had health bills to pay.

    I am amazed there is so much erroneous denigrating of the Canadian health-care system by some people in the U.S.A. We are such close neighbors — clearly the truth should be more evident that it can be done much better than your current system. You do have wonderful facilities and great practitioners, but you also have millions with no insurance coverage.

    I hope your voters choose a Canadian-like health-care system for the benefit of your whole population.

    – Gordon E. Riddle, M.D., Ottawa, Ontario

  302. TLC…
    add something if you can…all I do is make sure that you know that it’s not just the Repub that are stupid…..
    look at the Gate’s thing…Obama took lessons from Biden….open mouth- insert foot….

  303. Anonymous……
    it’s poolman that wants to get rid of the insurance co.

  304. Sorry about that James again.

  305. Thanks UAW Tradesman, you said it very well. If I know about it and am not making noise, I probably support it. It is silly to think any of us can write legislation a law maker will accept. All we can do is make noise about the sections we don’t like and hope for the best. At the rate this is proceeding our representatives and I will be exchanging Christmas cards.

    One thing I heard about while we were running around this afternoon is the insurance agencies’ practice of dropping patients for fraud or unintentionally providing misinformation. Sometimes the clients deserve to be dumped. Bureaucratic blunders and misunderstandings remove others who bought insurance on good faith and may die or face huge debts through little or no fault of their own.

    They claim the percentages are tiny, but the total numbers of insured are so large a tiny percentage amounts to thousands. A figure quoted on the NPR show I heard was 19,000 for four years or so. The three insurance companies interviewed before a Congressional committee said they did it to save money to cover their other customers and because it is legal.

    I will call my representatives next to suggest they make the practice illegal. It is not the medical care plan, but such a law would make immediate changes in a few lives.

    Mcbap, I agree in principle about advanced care planning, but my emotions are involved too. Home health care helped us when my father was sick. The chief said they needed to counsel him to agree not to be revived in the event of an emergency. Her rational was my father was 94, he had lived a good life, and it was his time to die. It was my dad’s choice, not home health care. She hounded me for a month.

    I appologise for quoting the wrong page. I should have written it was on Page 16 Sec. 102 Protecting the Choice to keep current coverage. “(a) is titled Grandfathered Health Insurance Defined.” “Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.

    I could be wrong, but my understanding is that our private health insurance is grandfathered in, though if we change coverage etc. our policy reverts to the government system. The insurance companies cannot take new customers. Ia Sen. Tom Harkin’s staff told me my interpretation is correct.

    Regarding MA plans, our isolated area already suffers from cutbacks. Our doctor was complaining about how hard it is for our rural hospital to stay in business as it is. My only problem with it is the need for a better safeguard to prevent capricious funding cuts including a better appeals system. Otherwise, I agree with the section.

    As for page 335, my main issue is for what I see as a risk of broad interpretation in determining whether or not a plan should continue. I want to see an effective appeals process.

    Like you UAW, I mainly want Congress to take the time to read the bill and debate it knowledgeably.

    We are preparing for a dinner party when the home owners return, so I need to get to work.


  306. France has a good system….guess what happened a few years back when it got warm…..you didn’t forget did you…..was it 10,000 dead or 15,000….

  307. UAW…die already…blow hard.

  308. UAW, I know who runs the health care for congress. My point is: WHY do we need insurance companies to broker our health care? We really only need a concierge. They can be paid based on customer satisfaction.

    All we are doing is going for health INSURANCE reform, and not true health CARE reform, IMO.

    I understand France has the best system statistically and the people love it. Why don’t we copy it with provisions to modify it as we see fit down the road and be done with it. We don’t have to always reinvent the wheel.

  309. UAW the government already hires insurance companies to administer retired veteran’s care and it works quite well thank you.

  310. poolman…..
    guess who runs the congress’s health care….hint….insurance companies….
    do you actually want all those people laid off….
    GM(or whatever it’s called now) is self insured with BCBS administering the plan…..what do you think congress is going to do…..hint…..hire an insurance company…..

  311. TLC…
    stop breathing….the CO2 it warming the planet….

  312. PalinShutUp…..
    “All I see here from james and a couple of others is a lot of noise but no solutions “…

    I don’t see anyone on this blog coming up with solutions just bitching about what the right is doing wrong….

    you want a solution…everyone should drop a sledgehammer(20#) on their foot…happy now….it’s as good a suggestion as any on this blog so far….

    James keep reading and calling your rep….

    I just want them to read the bill(and understand it) before they vote on it……and I want it as good as what the congressmen and their aids get…….

  313. James,

    In regard to your statement “For example, on page 335, lines 3-9, the government has authority to disqualify Medicare ADV plans, HMOs, etc, to force people into the government plan.”

    I looked at those pages, and 1) it is about Medicare AD plans, this is already government coverage; and, 2) they need to be reviewed and determined if a particular plan should continue.

    MA plans get a certain amount of Medicare dollars for each beneficiary they have enrolled. (at one time is was $600 a month). They take these funds and manage the care they provide Medicare beneficiaries on their plans. It would be in the government’s best interest and our interest as taxpayers, to make sure the plans are doing what they need to do and not just taking Medicare money to be in business.

    I don’t agree with your issues about advance care planning. A good idea to get families and older adults to make plans so no is surprised when issues do arise later. Everyday families are surprised at the costs of advance care, they assume too much about what Medicare covers. Also, having proper documents and plans in place reduces the possibility that older adults will be financial exploited.

    Also, on page 12..I don’t see what you are talking about..it appears to be just a section defining terms.

  314. I think the health insurance companies need to go away. I think they are ones griping the most about changing the status quo. They are the ones that benefit the most from it the way it is. They have the strongest lobbies. They have the ear of all our representatives, and it should not be that way. Is there a reason we need health insurance companies if everyone had access to health care? We need a radical change. Coverage for every citizen. Somebody tell me why we need the insurance companies if we had national health care. When the ship is sinking, usually we the throw the unessential stuff overboard. Who are we trying to save?

  315. This recession may be the “tipping point” for health care reform. The unemployed and most of the employed can no longer afford health insurance or health care. The economy is beginning to effect the profits of the health care industry groups.

    If the government requires everybody to have coverage, it could guarantee a steady stream of customers subsidized by taxpayers not only for insurers, but for all medical providers.

    Lobbyists are out in full force and the political infighting on Capitol Hill has only strengthened the hand of the health care groups.

    We can spend all the time we want in reading the various proposed bills, but the real grassroot efforts must be towards eliminating the political infighting. These people are our elected officials and are employed by the tax payers. About time to tell the employees to shape up or ship out. They should spend the month of August doing their homework and the employers (tax payers) should demand they do so.

    Read the new CEA report at http://www.whitehouse.gov and note their following statement.
    “Give us your response here through WhiteHouse.gov, or if you are a member of the social network LinkedIn, go take part in the discussion CEA Chair Christina Romer initiated there. Romer will be answering some of most penetrating responses in a live video discussion on Wednesday at 3:00 PM EDT.”

  316. about the health care proposal:

    All I see here from james and a couple of others is a lot of noise but no solutions so with all due respect to all of those who keep hammering the same point over and over about how ‘we cant afford it’ and how
    ‘we should be complaining’

    Im not listening to you anymore unless you offer FRESH IDEAS

    have a nice day everybody

  317. I repeated myself in case you are a little slow.


  318. TLC, move out of your parents’ basement and stop wasting our oxygen. But first, take a bath.


  319. TLC, move out of your parents’ basement, stop wasting oxygen and do something with your life. There is still time.

  320. James…get a life….really.

  321. From James again.

    I believe you are right about the number of medically based bankruptcies. I’m not going to say 60% is right, because my memory has faded, but it is the number which popped into my head.

  322. JuneauJoe, I never said that Palin would give the money away. in a non profit she can still claim salaries and expenses – I never would equate Palin with philanthropy

  323. We must have all people covered AND get rid of the pre-existing conditions crap.


    I like your idea. I think those in power should give their health care to those without and use their money to pay the medical bills OR GO BANKRUPT.

    1/2 OF ALL BANKRUPTCIES ARE A RESULT OF MEDICAL BILLS by the way. Actually, I think it is over 50%.

  324. Jenny, UAW is not a moron. He just disagrees with you. Demonizing the other side of an argument happens too often these days.


  325. From James.

    Our government representatives have a good medical care plan. What if those 47 million unfortunates were placed on the government program this session while Congress debated the best cost effective solution? They would have immediate protection from medical disasters, and Congress would have a tremendous incentive to create a safety net for everyone.

    Its not exactly what Lee Terry suggested, but…

  326. Greytdog: I know about the charity part but I cannot see Sarah giving it away unless they can give her something in return.

    Maybe Rev Luthee has some land in Africa she can be deeded for giving him money for his outreach or something.

    It is kind of cute how Sarah had the taxpayers pay her per diem for governing out of Wasilla home. The trips back and forth from Juneau to Anchorage added too also. Flying in AK is not cheap. Of course, when she flew it was not just Sarah which added to the cost.

    I am just glad to see her gone. (Did you hear the door slam? That felt good.)

  327. From James again. I agree, the Republicans did us no favors, and they helped create our deficit. However, to replace a bad system with something worse will be extremely costly. I believe if enough people contact their representatives, they will keep this issue alive until it is resolved.

    If this is the best we can do, then we need to vote it in, but I don’t think our representatives have yet explored other options or compromised sufficiently to address what some regard as harmful parts of this bill.

    Messages from we voters are a primary reason congress has delayed consideration of the bill. Two examples: Bush, McCain, and Democrats supported an immigration reform bill. I think it had good points, but opponents flooded Congress with contrary messages, and it was defeated. Harriet Miers, a Bush nominee for Supreme Court withdrew because of public opposition.

    I agree with your speculation. Sarah Palin will be rich in the next five years. This is so far out, it will never happen. Rush will retire one day. What if he chose Sarah as his successor as Bob Barker chose Drew Carey?

  328. Health Care Mess:

    We have 45.7 MILLION PEOPLE WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE currently – that cannot be ignored nor can we say, “Wait until that great solution appears on the horizon.”

    The price of health insurance is rising fast also too.

    The Republicans are quick to start a war on hazy and made up data while we enslave the average person to the health care companies.

    We also gave the health care companies total control over who they cover. If a cancer diagnosis comes in, the insurance company can say, you had acne in your youth and did not tell us so we will not cover your cancer. (Pre-existing conditions.)

    SLAM A SCREEN DOOR TODAY as a tribute to ex-Gov Sarah Palin. It is kind of like saying, “Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of AK.” Now that I think of it, I feel sorry for the rest of the US. Sarah is kind of like a tooth ache when you are not near a dentist. You suffer in silence and suck on a lot of ice.

    By the way, the Palin drama will continue. Sarah is leaving behind a legacy of distrust and questionable practices which will be winding through the court system for a while. I still think Texas would be a good fit for Sarah. She would not need a tanning bed any longer.

  329. JuneauJoe: This is just speculation on my part. . .so take it with a salt lick. But per the AK Trust Fund, there’s a section that states any excess funds will be distributed to a 501(c)(3) of the executor’s (Kristen Cole) choice. I’m thinking that we will soon have an announcement that Palin is setting up a 501(c)(3) to “progress the Real America” – and guess where the seed money comes from?
    Again, just speculation. It’s called money laundering but in a nice, make you feel good take it to the streets way

  330. Golden Parachute: Palin will get 7 to 11 million for a book deal. Palin will be getting a good gig with Faux news (guessing) which pays her lots of dollars.

    Palin got a very nice house on a lake for cheap. You and I could not get such a deal.

    Her legal fund, which is of questionable legal status is bringing in big bucks and it will be interesting to see if it ends with her governorship.

    I would also expect her to be on the board of an oil company to bring in many dollars for attending a few meetings.

    It is speculation but I say watch her financial growth in the next 5 years. Her gains will be significant – just guessing, but feel comfortable with the guess.

  331. We cannot continue with the broken system we have now. The uninsured numbers are just going up as are the cost of insurance.

    We do not have the luxury of waiting for the perfect system.

    The Republicans had 8 years to make something better and they failed miserably. They loaded their pockets with consultant fees.

    I say push for a bill now, not later. The plan is to delay and kill any and all health care change.

    The current mess is too big and we cannot wait.

  332. As you likely guessed, this is from James again.

  333. A few days ago, “lori” tried to debunk what I had written, including Obama’s telling a caller he was not familiar with the section of the House health care when in fact it is what he said. The link “debunking” what I wrote gave the same quote on which I based my opinion.

    Thus, President Obama did say he was not familiar with that part of the bill. Conservative talk show hosts wrongly or rightly said Obama didn’t know what was in all of the bill. He certainly didn’t know what was on page 12.

    She also tried to debunk my contention that the bill would gradually make most private insurance companies cease to exist not from government fiat, but from simple economics. Iowa Senator Tom Harkin’s representative told me I was right.

    Obama has said our medical care system is a drain on the economy and must be changed now to save it. He or others have said the new system would be revenue neutral, but how would that help if the current system with similar cost is sending us to the poor house now? We would still be where we are .

    However, the CBO has said the Democratic plan would cost more money, not save it. A new proposal would give an outside panel the power to make cuts to government-financed health care programs to save money.

    Yesterday, the Congressional Budget Office said the proposal to give an independent panel the power to keep Medicare spending lower would save only about two billion dollars over ten years, a tiny percentage of the estimated total trillion plus cost of House plan.

    The CBO says we might realize savings after ten years, but judging long term benefits is highly speculative.

    Nebraska Congressman Lee Terry is in Omaha this weekend. He suggested at a meeting the government could subsidize insurance rates for people and business who cannot afford policies now. The rest who can’t get coverage would be enrolled in the system which gives our representatives, including the President their fine medical care.

    I don’t know if it would work or not, but given the enorminity of our problems, I think Congress should take time to discuss every option with an open mind and leave partisanship out of it. Its not likely to happen, but one can hope.

  334. This is James again. we are house sitting, and the computer here won’t let me on if I list my name and e mail address.

    I just noticed Secret Talker A apologized to me on July 23. Thank you Secret Talker A. I hope you keep posting.

    Anonymous, yes, it was a good thing we muttered about being treated like dogs among ourselves and not the officers. We kept our top buttons buttoned. Otherwise, they would have made us wear two. Those flea collars itched.

    Our new commander and the Lt Col. stood up for we enlisted people. The Lt. Col. especially liked me, and he made sure I was around to watch when he chewed out the doctors and other officers. They knew I was watching and couldn’t do anything but take the harsh words. It had taken over a year, but revenge was sweet. We gloated for a long time.

    A commander named Willard transferred to another base. He was a giant of a man, one of the largest I had ever seen. The previous base sent us a sympathy card before he arrived. He looked out for the enlisted men and women. The officers had to get their hands as dirty just as the enlisted types did, and they took it pretty hard.

    After a successful mass casualty situation and war games which went well, he paid for and hosted tremendous beer bashes for the enlisted troops.

    Life has a way of evening out.

  335. UAW – I have a life and therefore don’t hang out on this blog all day. Sorry for the delayed response.

    I didn’t reference your poll – I refernced ALL pollls. Pull your head out and get a life.

    Jeez what a moron.

  336. Interesting stuff. Pleasure to meet you ladies.

  337. “UAW calls House bill ‘historic step forward’ on health reform”


  338. UAW TRADESMAN at 12:06 PM wrote:

    “getting back to health care…..why did the Dem controlled House and Senate repeal the 1988 Catastrophic Health Care Bill(Pissed because Reagan was for it????)”

    This died 1 year after it was inacted, back in 89.

    “…the Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act of 1988 failed because of serious political mis-steps and mistakes in its implementation.”


  339. UAW-
    Give me more facts on this Golden Parachute stuff…I haven’t found anything…..are you just making things up!!!!!!as far as counting money it’s probably to pay lawyer fees…….”
    As I have always appreciated your tire kicking here- I feel like it’s important to ask you to please,please,please- don’t fall for the Palin-as-victim story.
    I have no idea what JuneauJoe meant by golden parachute .
    There is a current scandal working itself out HERE on the eve of her resignation as our governor about the Trust which was set up to pay her attorney fees which is a big mess. The Trust has continued to solicit funds after the finding by the investigating attorney that it is illegal under Alaska law. As the report was leaked before the deciding body made a decision it’s just a madhouse right now.
    Perhaps J Joe is making a sideways reference to that…

    SP has been addressing herself to all of you out there the last 10 months… her perceived national audience and really ramping up the gobbeldygook about being a victim of so many things.

    It is a long established trait of hers- to ignore good advice and go for it AND then spin the results.
    Troopergate did me in…


    please read the letter attached to the story.

    And remember , if she hadn’t been tapped for the VP run , we could have been done with her HERE a year ago when the Branchflower report came out… the Legs would likely not have stood back as they did if she wasn’t in the run by then… with the McCain campaign hijacking so much of what was going on here instate through the election period.
    Ms Palin’s legal fees are a joke- for a variety of reasons… please do not fall for it…
    kick HER tire UAW… if you really look, it’s flat already…

  340. UAW, I must say: It is pretty amusing to hear you demanding facts when you regularly pull irrelevant tidbits, bitter opinions, and comparisons out of your well-hatted ass. Exhibit A: All Democrats and liberals think Obama is the Messiah because Oprah said he is “the one” or some such nonsense. Exhibit B: The Canadian healthcare system is a disaster because Natasha Richardson died after refusing its care. Must hit the hay now, but I’m sure our friends will be happy to furnish Exhibits C-Z.

  341. James, I suppose it is a good thing none of your fellow enlist men suggested you were being treated like dogs. If they had, would you still button your top button to hide the flea collar?

  342. “First book I have read of hers…”

  343. JuneauJoe and all alaskans – I have just finished a m ystery book by Dana Stabenow and all about Alaska and a prospective gold mine. firrrrrtboo Iiiihaeread o hers since I have been reading your posts.

  344. Death to the Shah!!!

  345. New Rules

    Subjects: Palin, Health Care and News Coverage


  346. To: Anonymous on July 25, 2009
    at 4:58 PM
    Pot meet Kettle.

  347. Wow! I just found this site and found both authors and commentors to be of one mindset. It must be a depressing to live with nasty name-calling thoughts all the time.

  348. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-ap-us-harvard-scholar-arresting-officer,0,4731766.story

  349. PalinShutUp, yes talk radio and blogs were talking about the Gates/police encounter, so it was a big story, but but it seemed to me that the story had reached its peak. Mabey I felt that way because I didn’t hear the talk shows. Rush must have been in fine form.

    Obama’s response to the question took it to the network news with more discussion than before. The audience grew to include people who don’t follow blogs or talk shows. I should have said Obama’s comments made an already big story bigger.

    On the other hand, I speed read the posts and I think you were the one who mentioned marajuana policy. If so I agree with you.

    I like the concept of requiring every congress person to read a bill, and forbidding non -related amendments. Yes, this should have been done before the Iraq war and twenty years before that.

    We are house sitting in Omaha, so the site may not recognize my name. I am James.

  350. http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/pccartoons/permalink.asp?artist=asay&date=090722

  351. Whirled, on the Repubs 10 points, as Uncle Walter would say, “that’s the way it is”

    Time for the Purple Party people!

    Namaste Δ

  352. Enjoyed your post. Limpballs is just an ass. Unfortunately, there are other asses that agree with him. Same as the idiots that think failin palin is great.

  353. LOL uaw, I had to chuckle last night when I saw that in last night’s news, I have a friend who has done web work for a handful of politicians in NJ, I wondered if she knows any of those guys, must ask next time I chat with her

  354. JuneauJoe….
    Give me more facts on this Golden Parachute stuff…I haven’t found anything…..are you just making things up!!!!!!as far as counting money it’s probably to pay lawyer fees…….Maybe the Dems should watch their own party more such as New Jersey(and yes there’s Rebs caught also)


  355. jenny….
    I didn’t see you complaining about Donna and her polls……why??????skin to thin…..You know what they say about being PC…it’s like picking a turd up by the clean end…..I’m still waiting for Gate’s apology…..

  356. getting back to health care…..why did the Dem controlled House and Senate repeal the 1988 Catastrophic Health Care Bill(Pissed because Reagan was for it????)

  357. wow…did I fart or something!!!!!…Oh No…I only have a different opinion than most on this blog…….If your belligerent and an asshat and black are you then not belligerent and an asshat…still waiting for Gates apology…..

    probably shouldn’t use Wiki because its not limited to liberal editing…(from now on I will just use Huffpo,Daily Kos, MoveOn,Crooks and Liars.etc….)(because WE all know that these blogs are 100% truthful and the others are not)(change truthful to BS)

  358. UAW I’d be careful when using Wikipedia. I don’t let my students cite it in assignments as I don’t consider it a valid source. It can be altered by anyone.

  359. juneaujoe bravo on every single point

  360. ‘UAW – on any given day I can show you three different polls with three different results. If polls meant anything at all, we would have never had George W Bush as President.’

    so true

  361. I gave it to kathleen too Donna wasnt the only one and I couldnt care less if anyone is ticked by it

    ‘Anonymous, I disagree with you for these reasons. This story would have moved on had President Obama not stirred the discussion. He turned it into a national affair.’

    james, I disagree, it was a national affair way before Obama made a public comment about it, talk radio was BUZZING about it 24/7 it was all over the internet, google, yahoo news…before the teevee media picked up on it

    Im with Greytdog, more pressing stuff we need to deal with

    Bianca, I sympathize and thank you for the post.

    I PAID for my health plan out of pocket every single paycheck for 20 + years when I was hit by a car, as a pedestrian, by an uninsured motorist, while sedated I was told to sign papers for my insurance co. to kick in coverage, what I did not see was the small print that said I must pay it back, that’s what I paid for all of those years.

    After I went without health insurance for a few years, insurance I needed to keep me healthy, that same ins. co. was deaf dumb and blind to my health woes, they were there to collect but not when I needed them. Now Im covered because I moved to a state that places the well being of its citizens first.

    UAW practice what you preach

  362. UAW – on any given day I can show you three different polls with three different results. If polls meant anything at all, we would have never had George W Bush as President.

  363. Tradesman,

    You are full of crap. We should have had people read everything IRAQ – BEFORE INVADING, for made up reasons. The Iraq mess caused the economic meltdown which we now face. I wish we had used the Iraq war money on health care reform.

    Slowing down or stopping health care reform is just inflicting more unbearable pain on the non-insured and underinsured.

    I think every legislator should have their insurance canceled until we have coverage for all of the people. By not voting on health care reform – people are doomed to inadequate or no health care.

    Good bye Sarah! Don’t let the door hit you in the butt on the way out! You notice in your article praising Sarah = tax increases (but don’t tell anybody.) Sarah was terrible on Native issues and the environment.

    Sarah got her golden parachute – she can go count her money now.

  364. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 7/25/09


  365. Raji ….I agree…..
    “Points to Ponder while health care reform continues on and on and on! I suggest a nationwide referendum requiring every state legislator to swear on whatever he/she feels holy that he/she has read and comprehended the entire Health Care Bill before they are allowed to vote!

    This referendum should also demand that NO Amendment may be included in the final Bill that does not relate to Health Care. Betcha that won’t happen!”

  366. Whirled Peas…
    please include facts…. not opinions(crap) from left-leaning liberal blogs……


  367. Even Prof. Gates apologized to the President for taking press away from health care reform. However, certain questions have come to mind regarding this case. How did some one manage to snap Prof. Gates’ picture at 2:00 AM and who released this picture to the press and “why” was the picture released?

    Another question is in regard to violating a citizen’s Fourth Amendment rights. We have seen more behavior along these lines since 9/11 and the Patriotic Act. How far we have come from not even knowing, understanding, recognizing or wanting to enforce our own civil rights anymore. Are we aware of our civil rights under the U.S Constitution and Bill of Rights?

    Points to Ponder while health care reform continues on and on and on! I suggest a nationwide referendum requiring every state legislator to swear on whatever he/she feels holy that he/she has read and comprehended the entire Health Care Bill before they are allowed to vote!

    This referendum should also demand that NO Amendment may be included in the final Bill that does not relate to Health Care. Betcha that won’t happen!

  368. Republican 10-Point
    Plan for Health Care


  369. http://www.slate.com/id/2223551/

  370. Hooray,

    Sarah Palin is gone as Governor of AK!

    She has found her way to fortune and she does not have to worry about ethics anymore – just count the dollars.

    Palin was not a very good governor! Please everyone: TODAY SLAM THE SCREEN DOOR CLOSED as a tribute to the former one term Governor of Alaska. (I bet she will be paid well to give commentary on FAUX.)

  371. donna….
    since you like polls….here’s one on Prez Obama…
    “This is the second straight day that his overall approval rating has been below 50% among Likely Voters nationwide. Fifty-one percent (51%) disapprove.”


  372. I can do health care, I can do Gates/Cambridge.
    I can do Cronkite. If medicated for nausea, I can do Limbaugh. Far from pathetic, I’m versatile — incredibly and titillatingly flexible.

    I pay $1327 a month for health insurance, with a deductible of $3000 and an out-of-pocket of $2000. I met the deductible and out-of-pocket in early February. I live on $1996.20 private disability insurance, offered through the school system for which I last taught. I have a mortgage, and currently, I also pay for all the utilities and groceries in this two-person, four-feline household.

    That’s right, I start each month already in the hole.

    I got my health insurance thanks only to the intervention of the Insurance Commissioner where I live. Really, though? I got it because I can string sentences together in a vaguely unsettling way — because I know how to make a stink. So many people don’t have my stinky gift, so many people are tired out before they even discover there is an insurance commissioner in their state.

    BCBS was in tiptop form as they fought against continuing to insure me, the uninsurable. They even dared to write me a [third] letter of denial, claiming they did not receive my check for the first deductible.

    Then some kind-hearted BCBS employee decided that she should return said check to me! “Please find enclosed your check for…”! The Insurance Commish hardly had to break a sweat.

    I can be a policy wonk on the subject of health care — but as sure as I am falling through the huge effing cracks, I find that more and more I only care about there being affordable insurance coverage available for the likes of me.

    There is little comfort in reading over and over about the rationing of care that is to come — more severely, that is, than what insurance companies and physician choices currently impose. It’s my care that will be rationed.

    In just the past year, BCBS has forked out a half-million dollars on my behalf. And ingrate that I am? I hope they’ll keep throwing money my way.

    I am firmly in favor of a surtax on whomever we decide is wealthy. That’s about as wonkish as I can get right now. When able to forget about my impending destitution, thanks to the premium that never ceases to go higher, I’ve emailed my opinions to the White House and Beyond, phoned my reps (and non-reps!).

    I’ve argued with medical bloggers so long and so “progressively” that they scream “Socialist” when I log on.

    Sorry, Greytdog, for enjoying the relative ease of the Gates Affair to the morass that is this country’s notion of health care. (That half-million spent on me? Most of it was wasted on a bunch of medicos incapable of the communication that would have cut the cost in half.)

  373. Anne–let me explain myself. There are certain ‘talking points’ which are repeated constantly by certain groups/commentators/people and have a subtext that I find very distasteful. Perhaps I shouldn’t have “poked” at Kathleen when she started on one of them (the “oh, Hillary was treated so badly”) but it did result in a big one: the ‘Kool Aid drinker’ comment.

  374. Sorry Greytdog, we will have to agree to disagree, I think there was more to this than miscommunication. And I do think it is an important issue and certainly worth a national discussion, as is health insurance reform.

    Since the common citizen isn’t privy to the negotiations being held behind closed doors we don’t have a snowballs chance in hell having a hand in shaping the health insurance reform. All we CAN do is insist there IS reform.

    Unfortunately, until we have campaign finance reform we are not in control of our destiny, K street is.

  375. In the Gates/Crowley incident, there are no teams. There is only misunderstanding, miscommunication, and sheer bullheadedness. It’s done. It’s over. Let to go. We have other things to deal with than a dust up in Cambridge. Did anyone else notice that this was a presser on health care reform and with that one single Q/A the national went viral over Cambridge. Give me a break. Talk about a short attn span. People constantly talk about the media bias – well they merely give us what we want to hear/read – and in this case, the public was more interested in Crowley/Gates than in the hard slog of reforming the health insurance industry. That’s really pathetic.

  376. Bianca, I agree, I thought the officer’s account/report of the incident smelled fishy. Just didn’t all add up. I am a firm believer that if you lie about one thing chances are you will lie about everything. I am on team professor.

  377. I am happy a vote for the medical care bill has been postponed. We who have been studying it know it is a difficult chore to read and understand. Our government employees who are no smarter than we surely need the extra time also. We are aware of what happened when our representatives didn’t read the stimulus bills before they voted.

    Obama is not leading when he says he can wait for a bill in the fall. He was the one who said we must have a law before the summer recess. As a good politician, he knows he now has no choice but to wait, so he tries to place himself at the front of the crowd. A good politician often leads by following.

    I’m also glad public uproar has convinced President Obama to understand how he fed the flames and admitted he was wrong. Offering to discuss the incident with his friend the professor and the police officer over a beer is a nice touch.

    Based on my limited knowledge of the situation, the woman who called did nothing wrong, just as the neighbor who reported my wife and I’s breaking into our own apartment.

    Anonymous, I disagree with you for these reasons. This story would have moved on had President Obama not stirred the discussion. He turned it into a national affair. I am white, and I agree unlike blacks or dark skinned hispanics, I can blend in with the majority of fair skinned Americans.

    However, I know discrimination from the wrong side. One year officers in our squadron harassed all enlisted men and women even the NCO’s. Our commander told us that he knew moral was bad, but we had better watch our steps. In any dispute, he would take the officers’ side.

    My black friends told me we were experiencing what they had lived with at home. Our service hard times would end but for them civilian life would not change. A new commander arrived from Vietnam, and we got our revenge on the rankist officers.

    When I was in grad school, several anti -war enthusiasts tried to sabotage my and others’ work for only one reason. We were veterans.

    A job counselor told several veteran friends and me that for non -southern colleges to hire us, we needed to hide our military service. Our veteran status would also hurt us on the job if anyone found us out. My friends transferred to law school. I dropped out to farm.

    An employment civil rights bill included minorities and Vietnam era veterans, according to signs I read in a business supply store.

    Our son and his wife have been married four years. Her family still does not know they are married because they oppose Koreans marrying whites.

    Most of us are victims of discrimination at one time or another. Its life. One deals with it and moves on. Of one thing I am certain. In the words of Jim Croche, “you don’t tug on Superman’s cape.”

    Gram Nam, I dedicate this post to you. Granny Smith, since you suggested I get out more, google Ashfall and see what my wife and I did yesterday. Now, we are off to house and dog sit in Omaha while we enjoy the city’s free promotional celebration this weekend.

  378. My favorite line from the police report? Upon being invited to exit his home and talk to Crowley on the front steps, Gates is said to have replied: “Ya, I’ll speak with your mama outside…”

    Yes, indeed-y, Henry Louis Gates, Jr., the original Mr. Priss, is going to make a “your Mama” joke, and in this circumstance, too

  379. Lordie, lordie Grandma Helen,

    That one about Bush living up Cheney’s ass for 8 yeasrs got me. I almost couldn’t continue after that LOL LOL LOL!!!

    I’m curious, what’s your take on Cheney’s daughter? My goodness I never knew Darth Vader had a daughter….and she’s just as dark….

    I’m kinda glad these crazies are around, they make for such good comic relief. Just imagine what the last election season would have been like without Caribou Barbie…

    Go Grandma Helen!!!…between you and Jon Stewart the crazies will be kept in check!!..

  380. Health concierge would be nice. Someone to tell me that my eyes are going to start going around 40. “Old age vision” are the exact words I read on the pamphlet as I bought my first pair of reading glasses this past week.

    Anybody have any questions about the Health Care Reform bills?

    I do.

    Will counseling sessions be mandated for the elderly? I think this reform debate needs to include A LOT of discussion about quality of life.

  381. Jean, let me know if you find those cliff notes. That is more my style.

    Did anybody catch O’Reilly? I know this is the right crowd, eh? He wants it in bullet points. It needs to be dumbed down. Go figure.

    Maybe instead of a health insurance agent, we should have a health concierge…

  382. PalinShutUp at 4:05 PM,

    “We need to make sure the drug czar receives the message loud and clear that the anti-science Bush era is over.”

    Amen to that. What’s up with this guy? Who’s he batting for? I sure hope we see a retraction on this.

  383. Hi gang and vgman,

    Awri, awri, I’m reading, I’m reading!!!!! I tackled the damn House bill this afternoon and began plowing my way through it. It’s not exactly light fun reading. I won’t have to take on the Senate bill for a month, thank God. I’m so glad this is not my full time job!

    In fact, I may recruit my husband to do chunks of the House bill. He is the fine print legal eagle in the family. That should bring on some lively discussions around here!

    Seriously, so far there are some quite thought provoking ideas in it. It will be interesting to see what the final bill will be.

    I figure with other things we have to do, it ought to take about a week at least! I’ll report in when I finish. Until then, I’ll read,read, read, read……



    P.S. Anybody know where I can pick up a copy of the Cliff Notes?

  384. Anonymous on July 24, 2009 at 9:16 PM talked about Tricare. That sounds like a good report. But is Tricare insurance or part of the government? Who pays for Tricare? If it is taxpayers, then it must be part of the government.

    Are people really happy with their health insurance companies, or is it that they are happy with their health care? I guess I don’t understand why we need insurance companies to get health care. Are there health insurance companies in Canada or France? I had some friends from Canada that explained that the cost of their health care was determined by where in Canada they lived.

  385. vgman, Sorry but I don’t do well with homework assignments. But, I look forward to looking over the others’ shoulders and learning the answers on Monday.

    Welcome, Kathleen, you have interesting and rather sharp comments.

    I am an Obamahead, and have sipped the koolaid. It is laced with hope, relief, and dang am I glad he is our President!

    He’s not perfect, but I do think he behaved like a gentleman during the primary against Hillary. She is one smart tough cookie, but was acting a bit of a shrew with her insinuations and departure from truths during the campaign.

    In any case, I am glad she is now on board and behaving like a great team player and class act. Wonder why she isn’t doing a stump again for health care? That was her big ball of wax when Bill was President and then she had to drop it.

    Werner, loved the Bush joke. Do you have his phone number for me?

  386. I don’t mean to brag, yes I do, I enjoy socialized medicine now here in the United States, and it is wonderful. My husband is retired military; therefore our medical needs are met by TriCare. I never wait more than a few minutes to see the doctor, I can choose my own doctor, all of my medical records are computerized so that when I see a specialist they can see my records, and my primary physician can look up any and all test results ordered by other doctors. I have no co pay to worry about, my prescriptions cost nothing, my total cost for all of this is around two hundred dollars a year, and my husband pays nothing. This is why I favor universal medical for all, if your insurance tops mine I’ll reconsider my opinion.

  387. That’s OK to take a break. I myself am prepping the house for a BBQ! Sunshine in Seattle is awesome!

  388. vgman, honestly, if I really had to write a paper on this over the weekend, I wouldn’t be sleeping at all. And right now, I’m on my 3rd legal pad of notes & xreferences. . . sigh. So I will post something by Monday to my idiot representatives with xreference to y’all. But for now, the hoot owl is outside and my retriever wants to go commune with him. “night all

  389. Just found your delightful blog and I’ll be back to read and enjoy your writing and your friend’s responses. Thanks for “telling it like it is!”

  390. Greytdog,
    I appreciate your enthusiasm for the assignment!
    Very good. Taking notes from your research is but part of the overall assignment. It is not necessary to turn in any of your notes, but please culminate the research process with a letter to your representatives. Your word as an American is enough to show them that Heatlh Care is foremost in priority.

    And thank you for setting an example for everyone by starting your work.

    Take your time. We have the whole weekend to work on this.

    All assignments are due first thing Monday morning. Our representatives need something to do right away on Monday.

  391. Obama talks with Officer Crowley and comments


  392. Off topic re Crowley, but relevant to “health care”.

    How often do you suppose “life style change” is offered as the Rx (as opposed to a prescription pill– or several of them)?

    Big Pharma reps have done their job and we are all paying for it — one way or another.

    IMHO. Δ
    Happy Friday and cheers. Ÿ

  393. Off the current (crowley) topic but relevant to “health care” –

    How often do you suppose “life style change” is offered as the Rx as opposed to a pill (or several of them)?

    Big Pharma reps have done their job and we are ALL paying for it — one way or the other.

  394. vgman, which reference methodology do we use: MLS, Turabian, or since it is healthcare, APA?

  395. in the meantime, please scroll back to my post of 4:05 PM

  396. I will read that thing sometime this weekend and it may take me longer…

    thanks greytdog found crowley radio comment here


  397. Thought I’d stop by and check to see how everyone is doing with their assignment?
    Does anyone need a spot to work where they won’t be distracted by others?
    “A Study of the Proposed Health Care Reform Bills”–
    that’s the title you write at the top and don’t forget your name in the corner.
    Now get back to work.

  398. two sides to every story, sometimes more, re police/professor, until I hear or read different I tend to sort of agree with James

    If there had been any profiling it could have been by the person who called the police, maybe, possibly, theres a whole lot of ASSuming going on from both sides (those for and those against)

    sounds like the professor may have taken things up a notch, racial profiling does exist but I dont think this was the case

    the professor had the right to ask for name and badge number and was refused soooo it seems the professor’s rights may have been violated

    imho the police were doing their job, police are community workers and I also know some police offices can be overbearing when their authority is questioned

    kathleen the only kool aid is the one in your glass

    Wiseronenow, Russet is missed in this household.

  399. Hi gang,

    I think Obama handled the controversy about Professor Gates very well this morning regarding over-reactions. Obama is truly a peace maker.

    One last comment on my part. The media frenzy is all AFTER the fact. Who stuck a stick in the hornet’s nest by calling the police to Gate’s address in the first place?



  400. open mouth insert foot??

    Kerlikowske, a wolf in sheep’s clothing?

    “Marijuana is dangerous and has no medicinal benefit.”
    — White House drug czar Gil Kerlikowske, at a Fresno, Calif., press conference yesterday Not again.

    In fact — and it’s getting a little tiresome to keep repeating it —the esteemed Institute of Medicine, American Nurses Association,American Public Health Association, American Academy of HIV Medicine, Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, Lymphoma Foundation of America, American Academy of HIV Medicine, and dozens of other medical organizations recognize marijuana’s medical value.

    What’s more, President Obama’s own statements on the campaign trail about marijuana’s medical efficacy run counter to his new drug czar’s statements yesterday. We need to stop this in its tracks. Would you please speak out against this ridiculous, outdated argument:

    1. Please use MPP’s online action center to e-mail the
    president about the drug czar’s statement.

    Here is the URL:



    2. Please call the drug czar’s office at (202) 395-
    6700 to politely complain that we’re still hearing this sort of nonsense.

    We need to make sure the drug czar receives the
    message loud and clear that the anti-science Bush era is over.

    Thank you,
    Rob Kampia
    Executive Director
    Marijuana Policy Project
    Washington, D.C.

  401. Kathleen:

    I agree with you not giving Obama a free pass. I voted for him and believe he is genuine about wanting to change health care, but that doesn’t means we shouldn’t scrutinize any plan put forth. There are several floating around right now, which makes it hard to determine what exactly is being proposed. We should carefully read all of them.

    I had to read back and see Donna’s comments. Her vehemence was surprising and I’m not sure where it came from. All I saw was your comment about Hillary Clinton’s treatment during the primary. I didn’t see that coming from Obama’s campaign but from conservatives (who seemed not to cry sexism until Palin was under scrutiny). Still, I can’t figure out what you said that was so offensive. I think she was a bit thin-skinned.

  402. jsri: “it will be finally determined that this was more like a contest between rutting stags than a truly racial incident. ”

    That says it all. Two tomcats spraying the landscaping. . .

  403. I’ll always remember watching the Kennedy assassination news on Friday, November 22, 1963, and seeing a news reporter “choke up” on national TV. Walter Conkrite set an example of humanity for all news reporters and there will never be another like him. Keep writing the blogs ladies because you say it like it should be said!

  404. Funny how much politics is so easily and closely related to our animal nature: sexuality, potty training, religion, race relations, money, gender, etc., and that’s probably why political coverage is much more to do with that than actual policy and law. Speaking of which I see Eliot Spitzer’s back, this time as a talking head. I’m ready to overlook all of his weaknesses if he shines his bright light on politics and corruption again. Idiot.

  405. Love it. I remember this lady from last fall. She’s back! :)

  406. It’s on Palin and not Rush but you have to see it:

  407. Greytdog:

    I’m sure there is some truth buried in all this stuff somewhere and I hope an impartial investigation will sort it all out.

    This radio program has a really shady history and some of the questions asked were softballs but I believe that Sgt. Crowley refused on several occasions to be baited into unseemly responses which may be to his credit.

    I think that there is a level of racism in all of us and that is obvious in many of the blog responses. But if there is anything positive that may come of this incident it may lie in the responses or changes in behavior by all involved.

    But I fear that it will be finally determined that this was more like a contest between rutting stags than a truly racial incident. A couple cooler heads would have resolved this issue on the spot. Clashing egos can be very loud and disturbing.

  408. Out of context:

    Call to the Bush Ranch, George picks up:
    Caller: “Hello Sir, I’d like to talk to the President!”
    Bush: “Sorry, I am no longer president, you’ll have to call somehwere else now….”
    Caller hangs up.
    5 min later the phone rings again:
    Caller: “Hello Sir, I’d like to talk to the President!”
    Bush: “Sorry, I am no longer president, you’ll have to call somehwere else now….”
    5 min later the phone rings again:
    Caller: “Hello Sir, I’d like to talk to the President!”
    Bush: “Sorry, I am no longer president, and I told you this twice already….”
    Caller:” I know, I know. I just can’t hear it often enough….?

  409. Read the statute that Gates was charged with http://bit.ly/167iIi

    Cambridge cop’s 1st post-arrest interview http://bit.ly/185oyU w/radio duo who called black kids “gorillas” http://bit.ly/UX4XV

  410. James:

    Like you I have mixed emotions with respect to the Gates situation and I fear that President Obama has shot himself in the foot with his off the cuff comment. Coming from a scholar and a lawyer his comment may be seen as an inappropriate prejudgment of a situation where the facts were still unknown.

    The truth is that none of us know what really happened. That secret is held by the participants in the dustup. Unfortunately many who have commented already have their preconceived notion of what went down and their comments reveal their biases and, in many cases, their experiences. Nevertheless it is inappropriate for anyone to try to project the thoughts of either participant in the encounter. That is intellectually dishonest and more often than not simply inflames the issue.

    As an aside, I have been on a university faculty that had a number of superstars. Unfortunately I never got to know any of them intimately because they always seemed to be off on speaking tours or academic conferences where due deference to their ideas and actions was expected and received. At home it was a different story. There was often a certain amount of disharmony expressed by the supporting cast of faculty members who had to take up the teaching slack related to the absence of the major players.

    I also have had some long conversations with the son of a former neighbor who is a long time police officer. It is his observation that most calls he goes on are domestic rather than criminal yet it is the domestic situation that is the most hazardous. He also said that 90% of the time they have uncertain or conflicting information and the first requirement is to control the situation, then get to the specifics. It is while trying to calm down the situation where things can become dicey.

    I suspect that if the officer involved had been more deferential, the situation would have been resolved on the spot and would not now be on the front pages of our newspapers.

  411. And another outrage of Christian Fundies controlling the peioples thoughts!

    Alabama, where the southern sun fries your brain, if you’re not born without one…..!

    ABC Board and Talibans: UNITE!



    The Alabama State Alcoholic Beverage Control Board has deemed this wine label – featuring a vintage 1895 bicycle advertising poster with a nude nymph flying alongside a winged bike – as “immodest,” and ruled that it must be removed from grocery store and bar shelves immediately. Read the full story here:


    (Don’t know that blog, so go there at your own risk!)

  412. Kathleen,

    I thought your post yesterday was fine, and I was glad to see you stick up for yourself today.

    I think we all ‘profile’ each other far more often than we should.

    I don’t mind the windbags here too much. I read ‘em anyway. Sometimes I wish they’d rock over backwards off the porch, but not really hurt themselves and get back in the game after a little rest. I don’t mind James any more than I mind anyone else who talks a lot.

    I’d be interested in hearing the audio of the Gates scuffle. My predisposition – without knowing hardly anything about the particulars of this case – is that any cop should have the self-control to de-escalate the situation once he knew the man was the homeowner. It used to be called ‘giving the guy a break.’

  413. Kathleen–you have exactly zero idea what I believe, politically or otherwise. The “kool aid” comment is as offensive as the one about Hillary Clinton and her supposed treatment. Simply because I hold views with which you believe you disagree (and, again, you don’t have a clue what they are) does not mean I am any less capable of critical thinking. I wonder how familiar you are with the concept of projection, since it appears you may be engaging in it.

    Thank you, Tine. As always, you rock. And if (as I suspect from her comment) Kathleen can’t play well with others, she can go pout on her own.

  414. uups read that “national” as in nationwide newspaper or TV news, this blog is “inter”national (actuall, I hope more like “global village”)

    But this should be spread also to all non-readers of this blog, so let’s get back to the old (and rather stupid, but in this case….) chain-letter scheme, everyone who DOES agree with vgman’s (sorry for the “poolman”, but he’s a good chap too!)
    assignment should spread it to approx. 10 people….. that’ll give the thing a good start, if they spread it too……

  415. Poolman

    this should be posted national, maybe grassroots would really work?

  416. First of all, I’d like to tell you that my father used to call people who like to hear themselves talk “blowhards” because they put so much effort into what they say to be heard that they don’t hear themselves. Another way of saying it was “He’s (and it was usually some other guy in town spoutin’ off about something)…just full of hot air.”

    Well, Rush Limbaugh would take the cake and walk away with the prize if there was a blowhard contest. I respect my dad and I learned from him that only people who listen to others are really the ones who show they care about making life right for all.

    So, I am thinking that the majority of the people who are “spoutin’ off” about the Health Care Reform don’t even know much about it.

    I think that President Obama’s saying that it’s OK for the debate to continue in the fall is a good example of how he is leading. Setting goals and deadlines is a part of any productive life and he knows how “set” Wash., D.C. can be when not challenged.

    He also knows that by talking to the American people about the issue is encouraging us to learn more about the Health Care reform bills being considered. Thanks to the links provided in previous blog entries, we can all see what’s inside this legislation.

    So……….A CHALLENGE!!!!!!
    If everyone who reads this blogs and asks someone else to do the same, we could all devote a short amount of time this weekend to look at the bills. Then we can tell our congresspersons what we think. If we can continue pressing our representatives that this is important to us–
    then they know that the people are expecting them to sit down and work together and come up with something that works for all Americans
    President Obama’s expectation for the Congress to keep working is another great example of leadership.
    I knew we elected him for a reason. Leadership skills are just part of the package and he is sure delivering.

    So….(that’s my third so)…..Everybody ready?

    Begin researching…………….now!

    Remember–the more we read and learn about it the more we have questions for our representatives the more they realize this is important to us the more they realize we expect them to work and know the answers to our questions.
    Now get to work.

    Being a teacher, I think you all know that I just gave you all an assignment.

    Why are you still reading this? Get to work.

  417. Kathleen, you’re doing the same thing you’ve accused Donna of doing. You’re saying she “drank the kool-aid” just because she disagreed with you.

    Donna has the right to do so, and she explained why she thinks you’re disingenuous. Her reasons are valid, regardless of whether you, I, or anyone else concurs.

    Meanwhile, you accuse her and everyone else here of “blind faith” and “blind allegiance” without a shred of evidence to back up your allegations. There’s no kool-aid drinkin’ around here, sister.

    You must be new here…or you wouldn’t be talking about kool-aid on a blog where a whole bunch of liberals (and a few other non-liberal regulars) disagree with and debate one another on a daily — no, hourly — basis.

    Get to know us, please, and stop being so sanctimonious. If you can manage that, you’ll be welcome here too.

  418. Donna,

    It’s impossible to reason with someone who obviously drank the kool-aid and is continuing to drink from the well.

    All politicians and policies should be questioned. It’s not a crime to disagree with obama, so please don’t attack me for not trusting him as much as you obviously do.

    So far, no one really knows exactly what’s in the HealthCare package because, increduously, neither obama nor the Congress have even read it. They didn’t read the stimulus bill either.

    My point is, how in the hell can you vote for something on blind faith, which is of such great importance and will impact American lives for generations? Anyone who can give a free pass to this kind of governing is being dangerously naive.

    I haven’t forgotten that Obama made a promise during the campaign to put up bills on the internet so that ‘we, the people’ could read and understand them, but the two largest bills ever to pass Congress went mostly unread and passed undebated and un scrutinized and werent put on the internet for comment and understanding as promised. As citizens, it is our duty not to remain “blind” to obama’s breaking of his campaign promises:


    I grew up in an America where “dissent was considered patriotic” and was not considered bullshit or disengenuous because it conflicted with someone’s else’s views. America strives when we welcome (not attack) diversity and differences of opinion because that is the only way to arrive at the best solution which is in the best interests of ALL Americans, not just for those who support the present administration. Didn’t we have this same argument regarding the bush administration and the media’s giving him a free pass?

    Blind allegiance does not serve a democratic republic, but rather, destroys indivuduality and critical thinking, which are vital to its survival. I don’t know about you, that that is not the kind of America I want to live in.

  419. Werner, let’s get rid of the bullets & water pistols and just do this up right – PAINTBALL!!!!!

    The issue I’m having right now with this so-called health reform is that there are too many damn fingers trying to prove they all had a hand in shaping (or carving) it. This is the FIRST step only folks – how to get insurance costs down in order to make health care itself accessible. I practically foam at the mouth (not a pretty sight) whenever I hear the argument “Do you want the government to come between you & your doctor?” OH PUHLEEZE read your damn policy. Most policies are PPO or HMO. That means you’ve already got someone standing there between you and your doctor. And it’s not someone who is medically trained to make health decisions. It’s someone whose yearly bonus is a % of the premiums, claims, etc that they maintain at a certain level. Wellness mammogram in my area ranges from $300-600. Most policies will cover that. but if you need a diagnostic mammogram (such as following breast cancer Dx, usually required for 2 years, every 3-6 months), most policies will only cover 30-40% – add in the caps of pharma costs, co-pays, loss of time from work, etc. . .and all because some coin counter has decided that diagnostic mammograms are not medically necessary and therefore not cost-efficient. Same with bladder cancer. Most policies will cover the removal of the bladder but will not cover the cost of neobladder surgery or after care. likewise, some policies will not cover the recommended BCG procedure because it is more cost efficient to remove the bladder than to attempt to save it. Arrrghh.

  420. Poolman, I’d hold off in trying to wade through the healthcare bills. Carvel made the analogy that this process will be more like a pro basketball game, nothing much will happen until the last three minutes of the game. WE have many miles to go before we rest.

    One of the GOP tactics is to try and distract the American people with these red herrings hoping to wear us down in unimportant details…

    I am friends with a few of senators staff personnel and they all agree it is looking like fall before we see much progress.. Unfortunately..

  421. Once again, you’ve made my day! Thanks for the excellent post. And, I would think the closest thing we had to Walter was Tim Russert. May he rest….in peace too.

  422. I tend to side with the professor. It seems to me that a professional police officer would have been able to defuse that situation without it escalating into the homeowner being handcuffed on his front porch. The officers’ story/report smells a little fishy to me. I tend to believe the professor’s story more.

    I would get specific but I would hate to be the cause of a suicide. ;-)

    I agree the LOL award goes to grey and werner this morning..!! (so far)

  423. Down with bullets!
    Up with water guns!
    (They’re just sooo much more fun!)

    For those realists, you can mix some ketchup in your water!

  424. Professor Gates was acting the fool that why he be arrested. Don’t nobody need to be acting the fool around no police officer. Nobody.

    End of story.

  425. Speaking of taking the bullet, did anyone get through tat whole Health bill?

  426. Let’s all take the bullet. :-)

  427. James hanging out with, friends with does not = being Black. You don’t have their history or experiences, neither do I, but what I do know is we all relate best to people who look like us. That doesn’t make us a racist, but it is something we should acknowledge. Let’s just move on, we weren’t there, therefore we know nothing, end of story.

  428. Greytdog gets the prize pie of the day!!!
    Too funny :-)

  429. Good Morning all. Some people take up more real estate than others. Some people need more words to express their views. Others think quantity relates to quality. Others, as we know, just want to rant. Alas, we are all critics at heart.

    James’ account of Gates’ situation is how I read it.

  430. excusez moi: (that’s probably totally wrong). But appropos of Margaret’s comment on Palin, see the latest poll. Her approval ratings have plummeted. While there is still rampant looniness, at least she is losing her shininess.

  431. My I donate the (Super Soaker Water) gun???


    Really. Have a smile. I mean it!

  432. Take the bullet

  433. And I understand that…really, I do…but I’d rather take a bullet to the head then read some of these “run-on” so-called “comments”….just saying.

    It is a just a comment.

  434. Gram Nan
    while you’re principally right, some like James and a few others equal
    comment = (at least a partial) novel….

    Now some of us do like to read those rants, and even I detect an ever so small pearl of wisdom sometimes hidden in there ….., ;-)

    For all others, that’s what the scroll finger is for!

  435. Oh for the love of God….it is called a “comment”.

  436. On one military base, I hung out with a group of five or six black men. Some whites called me a n lover, but I didn’t care. My friends told me all sorts of stories about driving while black and other indignities they suffered. That was forty years ago, and some things probably don’t change though conditions are better.

    My wife and I forgot the keys to our second floor apartment when I was in graduate school. The owner was gone, and we had no way in. We got a screw driver, climbed up the fire escape, and pried an unlocked window open. Neighbors watched us and called police. Two officers appeared and asked us to step outside.

    We told them our story and showed our ids, but they still weren’t completely satisfied until they called our down stairs neighbor to vouch for us. One of the officers apologized for not immediately believing us but said we looked like “hippie trouble makers.”

    We weren’t black, but a negative stereotype worked against us. Iowa City suffered at the hands of anti- war protesters who had shut the city down and damaged many businesses. The National Guard had been called out the previous spring. I was a university student and my wife and I looked like many of the people who were giving them trouble.

    We were polite throughout and we thanked the officers for coming so fast to protect our property. After all, if we could get into our apartment so easily, so could real criminals.

    Apparently, Professor Henry Louis Gates behaved stupidly. By his and the police accounts, he was argumentive and verbally abusive. He cast street asprsons an officer’s mother. An Omaha television station showed a picture of Gates standing in his doorway, and his face was contorted with rage.

    His and other homes have been burglarized lately, and the investigating officers’ duty was to determine what was happening. Gates apparently failed to cooperate. Maybe he was projecting past abuse onto this situation. I don’t know. I do know his abusive behavior caused what seemed to be an inocuous incident to escalate. The police officers had a job to do, and they also had to insure their own safety. Gates allegedly asked “do you know who I am?” They didn’t.

    One of the officers was black. Obama later said on Nightline that he was told Sgt. James Crowly was an “outstanding police officer.” The former police commissioner, who is black had picked Crowly to teach racial profiling. The Boston Globe reported the police commissioner praised Crowly’s actions were “consistent with his training.”

    Obama admitted he didn’t know the entire story, and he should have said he couldn’t comment until he did. Richard Nixon made a similar mistake when he said someone was guilty before a trial. At the time, the Omaha World Herald editorialized that Nixon as a lawyer should have known better.

    The Cambridge police department stands by the officers and Crowly refuses to apologize. There may be racist intent, or there may not be. I have no idea. An internal investigation will likely give us more information on which to base conclusions.

    We all profile. It is in our nature, and we need to suppress the trait. Gates and the police may both have been profiling. So for now, I am neutral and looking forward to our road trip which starts now.

    Good bye until we return.

  437. Having been on the receiving end of a policewoman’s ire involving a racial profiling incident, I can fully understand the views from both Officer Crowley and Prof. Gates.
    In my case, it quickly spiralled out of control when my friend (who is black) walked away and I raised my voice in defense of us both.
    I think that Obama was wrong to use the word stupidity, but he was right to say that cooler heads could have prevailed. It is an unfortunate incident.

  438. Hi gang,

    Looks like the brain dead Trolls are getting a jump on Snarky Friday.

    Anyway. It’s been a couple of days since the disgusting arrest of the prominent scholar from Harvard in Cambridge, MA; who happens to be black. I don’t remember the name of the professor, but apparently he has an international reputation of prestige.

    Most people have rightly been appalled at this obvious case of racial profiling. However, there has not been ONE WORD of comment about it here at M&H’s.

    The professor is in a position to express his outrage. How about the ordinary guy, going about his business who is similarily harrassed, even roughed up or tossed into jail with no recourse. Racism is alive and well in this country. This applies to people of Mexican origin or any other country that aren’t lilly white (like us?)

    Lou Dobbs on CNN has been beating the drums daily for years about ‘Illegal Aliens’ although many, many people of Mexican origin have been citizens here for generations. They all look the same to him.

    I just think it is time we stood up and decided to be counted against any and all such disgraceful practices.


    Auntie Jean

  439. You go, girls! Tell it like it was and is!

  440. “Margaret, I ask you, if a book falls in the forrest and doesn’t make any sense, is it really a book? And if it’s not really a book then the monkey who wrote it really isn’t an author… right? I guess what I am trying to say is this – if Ann Coulter makes up a lot of crap and puts it on a piece of paper how is that any different than what I do with a roll of Charmin after my morning bran muffin?”

    Helen you are my dream girl.

  441. “It occurs to me that reading a Coulter book is like drinking the water in Mexico – eventually you find yourself wondering if the shit will ever stop.”

    Vintage Helen

    Was reading some of her old posts and this one made me laugh out loud.

  442. What he said.

  443. Bested by the best. I grow weary of this game which I cannot win.

    Aloha! mahalo! Namaste!

    Auntie Loon

  444. Oh I see it’s recess time for the juvies. Oh well, guess it’s better than real vandalism, eh? Silly twits.

    Just peeking in before heading out with the muttskis. It’s a lot cooler here (still humid though) at night for their gotta do a couple miles thing. . .so y’all have fun, don’t let the toddlers fling too much poo on the walls, and make sure y’all check their pockets before they leave. ‘night

  445. Kind of small an crooked.

  446. Stop trying to evade my excellent line of probing questions with diversionary tactics.

    Now what does a Republican feel like?

  447. You boys take your nonsense elsewhere. You are not welcome here! Go play with yourselves somewhere else!

  448. Sure felt like he was a Republican. Can Priests vote?

  449. Was he a Republican?

  450. Yep. St. Luke’s. That’s the place. Nice rectory.

  451. Legally I can’t say…I received a settlement. I can say his name because he is dead now.

  452. What happened?

  453. Check your shoes, Folks…I think someone stepped in troll…

  454. No, really…..Father James. St. Luke’s Catholic School in San Antonio, Texas.

  455. Liar.

  456. Jake, you too?

  457. Way to go ladies.

    The newest ‘most
    trusted name in news:’

    Jon Stewart of The Daily Show
    ;) ~ Δ

  458. Thank you so much for those links, I guess I will be quite busy reading this weekend :)

    my father’s name was James

  459. Gerold, Sorry to hear about your penis. That can’t be easy for you, man. Cheers.

  460. Two shit for brain over the hill liberals having a stupid liberal love fest. What a waste of time. I hope all you people enjoy having a non-American citizen for President. It is the biggest crime against this nation since Benedict Arnold. You suck.

  461. UAW you have a way of generalizing things that is scary but what makes it even worse is that you use examples that you have pulled out of your ass. No facts. Just opinion based on shit. Expecting the worst in people will probably get you one shitty life.

  462. Anderson Cooper?

  463. Right back atcha, Troutay.

  464. Thanks kitkat! Wow! It’s all there. That is transparent at the very least. Seek and you shall find. That’s some real fun reading, too. Better put some tea on…

  465. This is what I found for the Senate version:


    Happy reading :)

  466. Here’s what I found with full text and summaries of the House’s bill. I just googled house of representatives health care bill. Would think the same would work for Senate version.


  467. Thank you, Anne. I have a sweet spot for Anne too. She is our oldest niece, and I was like a second father to her when she was little.

  468. Another great post! I wish more people would read this blog and just think!

    (wave to A Tine and a few of the golden oldsters)

  469. PalinShutUp, I’m sorry the link didn’t work. As you know, my left eye has been strained much of the summer, and my vision gets blurry. Maybe I miss- typed something. I just googled “Twitter Tom Perriello Full text of the house health care bill” and found the same link from where I got the text of the bill.

    I also googled “full text of Americia’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009″. I didn’t open any links, but surely there is another site with the bill. Tom Perriello is a Va rep, so you should be able to find his web site, I hope. If it still doesn’t work, I will try to help when I return.

    Thanks for defending me, Anne and Werner. Grannysmith’s comment sounded like bashing or mockery to me. If she is reading this, she knows I do get around. But one thing in her favor is I like Granny Smith apples.

  470. James, guess I have a soft spot because my husband’s name is James too.

  471. Anonymous, to be human is to be biased. Everyone, including liberals are biased. Maybe classical liberalism could make the claim but this generation is far from that philosophy.

    Anne, I think Charlie Gibson is one of our best news personalities too. He may hide it better than most but he displays bias at times. He was more advisorial to Sarah Palin than he was to other politicians, and I think some of her comments were edited after the interview. At least I read the transcript. He sounded like a prosecution attorney. That may be why viewers got the impression he is a leftist. That is just my guess.

    They forget Gibson was the one who pressed Obama on his proposed capital gains tax during the debates. He was the only reporter who noted that lowering capital gains taxes tends to enhance revenues but Obama wanted to raise the taxes anyway because it was fair. ABC was in trouble with the Obama campaign for a while after Gibson’s question. Years ago, on Good Morning America, he made snide comments about Take Our Daughters to Work, as he should have. Charlie Gibson also was one of the first to report the surge was working in Iraq.

    Abraham Lincoln, I don’ t think you have to worry about Jeb Bush. He left office with the reputation as a pretty good governor and he probably doesn’t want to tarnish it with a failed run for the White House. He is the smart son.

    A Tine, I can see nineteenth century. My great great uncle lost an election because he refused to say grace at a campaign meal. My grand parents in North Carolina were the only family who let black guests in the front door. I am just as contrary.

    You are right that large corporations own most of our news organizations. Many editorial boards tend to be conservative, but they let their reporters do their work as they see fit. As John Leo wrote, birds of a feather flock together. People tend to hire folks like themselves. Liberal organizations usually hire liberals and vice versa. John Leo wrote many don’t realize they are biased.

    This is a happy day. I saw my doctor for a checkup and asked about shots to the spine. MY health is good. Nothing bad is wrong with me. Though she said she isn’t supposed to discuss politics, my doctor opposes the House version of the medical care bill as I do. I stood in awe of her when she asked what I thought of page 1,000. It will be a long time before I get that far.

    Other reasons for my happiness are sweetcorn and the road trip my wife and I will start tomorrow. Moreover, public pressure like mine has persuaded Congress to take a little more time to reflect on and change the bill. We will have a big phone bill.

  472. J. Nitzel, as much as I would love to place full blame on miss moose poop for the terrorist poop during the election it was our very own hillary who started it but we all know Obama was the bigger person for bringing her into the administration and forgiving her indiscretions

    ‘Let freedom ring.. and that includes ALLLLLLL aspects of personal choice, from the living room to the bedroom and especially my doctors’ office……It is none of my government’s bizness what goes on in my doctors’ office concerning my personal care.’

    here here Lori! I will toast to that one

  473. Werner, :-) :-) :-) :-)

  474. Palinshutup states:

    all I remember is supporting Hillary UNTIL she claimed he was ‘palling around with terrorists’ and catching her on a couple of BOLD FACE LIES

    I agree 100 percent. Politics is not for the meek, Hill knew exactly what she was doing, every move a politican makes is calculated. In Hill’s case she calculated inccorrectly.

    Anne, I would hardly agree that Grannysmith telling James to go outside can be considered bashing….. And as far as rational thoughts… I personally will happily discuss and debate different opinions, I won’t “debate” lies. If I wanted to “debate” the daily GOP Rush/talking points I’d go to a FOX or Drudge blog.

  475. ‘So how can we mandate (or otherwise encourage) that there be an adequate supply of primary care docs? I have heard ideas ranging from debt forgiveness to the dismantling of the current Medicare-dictated reimbursement coding system that favors specialist-driven procedures over what some call “cognitive medicine.”

    It seems to me that some answer to this problem is going to have to be included in reform legislation…’

    Bianca, I believe I remember Obama mentioning something about ‘forgiving part or all of student loans’ for government service…not positive if it was for doctors, something this administration may be considering

  476. ‘As a former democrat who became an independent during the primary after witnessing the dispicable treatment received by Hillary from the obama camp, his supporters, the DNC and the MSM’

    Id like to know what despicable treatment you claim hillary received from the Obama camp kathleen?

    all I remember is supporting Hillary UNTIL she claimed he was ‘palling around with terrorists’ and catching her on a couple of BOLD FACE LIES

    I and a slew of others I know dropped her like a hot potato so maybe she deserved the ‘despicable’ treatment? whatever she got from the ‘Obama camp’ is nothing compared to what some of us would have said to her

    james, I tried to look at the link you posted, it did not work

  477. Anne
    you’re right! I seldom agree with aJames and I still can respect him!

  478. Well sure, It’s course it doesn’t work for AMERICANS!!!!!


    Become a Canadian, and suddenly it works fine….. or have an emergencey, no one bothers you about a bill, at least untill you’re all fixed up again….

  479. I think some of you are unfairly bashing James. He is not ranting or spewing like Rush Limbaugh. He is not angry. He’s stating legtimate concerns in a rational manner. He’s even offering sources. It is unfair to tell him to go outside and get fresh air. Is this a blog where we all must agree with each other or where we exchange ideas? It’s fine to disagree but let’s respond to rational thought with more rational thought. We are not on Bill O’Reilly.

  480. Werner, don’t you find it interesting that it’s only Americans that state the Canadian health care system doesn’t work, not the Canadians :-)

  481. To all that liked my music, I finally posted my own good old blues in an unplugged version…..Enjoy.

    (And I am playing an instrument (Guitar) that I know….. ;-) )

  482. here is a good place to start your fact finding quest vgman… click the second tab on the top titled influence and lobbying


  483. Well here in Canada we don’t have the best system in the world, but at least our health care works AND it’s afordable to all!

    Take us as a sample and bult yours accordingly, it will give you something that works and can be financed!

  484. I always enjoy your posts, but this was one of the best I’ve seen in awhile. Cronkite was a bit before my time but it’s a name I’ve always known. You don’t get to be that well-respected for being biased. The newscasted I’ve grown up with an respected has been Charlie Gibson, and I was shocked to read comments about him on ABC’s news website from viewers who claimed he was obviously left wing after his interview with Sarah Palin revealed her to be less than up on all the issues. I’ve never seen him express an opinion one way or the other.

    Rush is not a journalist. Neither is Bill O’Reilly, or anyone on Fox News (which is not news). I think anyone who cannot be fair and balanced and present the facts without their opionion, or admitting its their opionion, cannot be called a journalist and should be considered an entertainer only. That goes for both sides, left or right, though I can think of any on the left right now. Perhaps Rachel Maddow or Jon Stewart? But they’re so funny and poinent they don’t piss people off as much.

  485. How can we take the health insurance companies to task? I think too much money is being promised in the coming mid-term elections around an issue that needs attention now. If I would see money being donated to campaigns from health insurance companies, or lobbyists adding perks to what our senators and representatives already get paid, I would be incensed. Who can search for this information?
    I say we all refuse to pay any more premiums, co-pays and jerk this horrendous health care system to its knees.

    Why can’t a seemingly healthful, competent, and dedicated senator or representative gather around a table and get some work accomplished?

    Especially Senator Reid–why push it off until fall?
    Too many other things to take care of in the present?

    This is so exasperating for those of us who can see a purpose, set a goal and get something accomplished.

    Now back to measuring my walls for painting.

  486. If only the mainstream media could publish these posts as editorials.
    Unfortunately, the “moral majority” members congress would be so incensed that they would have to have them banned by somebody, after, of course, they take drugs (prescribed, of course) get some counseling from their young female advisors, and then pray at the Capitol Hill C Street House.

  487. M&H,

    Your blog is the very best. You say it like it is and it makes my day! Why are so many folks in this country so stupid? How I wish that Fox News would be banished from the airr waves..

    Walter Cronkite was the last real news reporter we have had. Now we get our news on John Stewart’s show. That is pretty sad, but that’s the way it is! Thanks so much for your wonderful insight into what is really news, and being very blunt about it!

  488. Limbaugh is a fricking idiot. He compares himself to God. That in itself makes him a fool. He always says he is right. I guess he has an ego to feed and an insecurity to fill. Too bad there are so many people that fall for his crap. I can’t even stand to hear his voice. Who’s with me that says he is STILL using tons of drugs, he’s just more careful about them. He “recovered” way too quick. I am very aware of the recovery process of an addict (especially one that was taking as much presctiption meds as he was) and there is no damned way he was clean when he came out, that is assuming he actually did go to get clean. I cry out bullshit!

  489. Poolman–YOU are legit!

  490. Kathleen, I am a former republican that became an independent. I must say, based on your comment and link, you missed the middle and went on to the right. Don’t kid yourself.

  491. Once again. You ladies are the best…

  492. Even those that end up at the emergency room with no insurance have to sign paperwork obligating them to pay the bill. The reason they end up in the emergency room is that no one else will take them without insurance or a prearranged payment agreement. Nobody walks out of the ER without some type of arrangement. The problem is that many don’t pay the bill because they can’t afford it. The end result affects not only their own credit, but also the whole system. Just like store owners have to cover the cost of those that steal by increasing the cost of goods to cover the losses, hospitals have had to do the same. That is part of the current problem and part of what could help lower the cost of care.

    But the biggest source of wasted funds and unnecessary proceedures are due to insurance companies. The red tape. The legaleeze. The greatest hindrance. Look to eliminating the insurance companies and you will save big bucks. We’ve seen the salaries and bonuses. Where do you think the money is coming from? And then look at the drug companies. They have been profiting from the system the way it is. How much of our health care costs are making them wealthy?

    Health care is not free, but it can be more efficient if we were just paying for the care needed and not lining all the other pockets that broker it.

  493. Helen and Margaret I’m new to your blog–caught your previous blog about Sarah Palin and posted it on Facebook for all my friends and their friends and their friends…

    You two are the greatest! I love this most recent post–Cheney’s ass and all!

    Keep it up. I keep checking for more posts from you and hope you are both feeling up to posting more often, ’cause I NEED this.

  494. Oh, give me a damn break, Kathleen. I seriously doubt that you changed affiliation because of the “dispicable” [sic] treatment of Hillary Clinton. The fact that you resort to the canard “MSM” is a give-away.

    There were points in the primary which were rough–for everyone. But Ms. Clinton (for whom I have a great deal of respect and admiration) was slinging it as much as anyone else. (“Is he a Muslim?” “Not that I’m aware of.”)

    I welcome other viewpoints–when they are genuine. Yours is disingenuous bullshit.

  495. No, I believe the story is most often “going to the emergency room because they have no insurance, or can’t afford the exorbitant insurance rates, and therefore cannot get an ordinary doctor to examine them.”

    The same uninsured folks end up in the emergency room at some point, when the problem has escalated to dangerous/unbearable, because most hospitals can’t turn them away.

    If these folks had had affordable insurance, they wouldn’t be in the ER to begin with.

  496. Δ Tine……
    The story alway brought up is “going to the emergency room because they can’t afford the office call”………do the stories ever say that the bill was $250 and they only paid $75….No….it’s “they left without paying”….

  497. Kathleen, there is no Obama plan as of yet. Some say that is the problem but unlike the Clintons, he seems to have opted to let the legislature come up with a plan so if there is any impact on seniors, we should look towards the house and senate.

    Greytdog, what do you think of the Cover Florida plan?


    Cover Florida, a program offering low-cost health insurance, is targeted to Florida residents who wish to purchase meaningful health coverage but have been shut out of the private insurance market due to soaring costs.

    Cover Florida plans are guaranteed issue and are available to all Floridians ages 19-64 who have been without insurance for at least six months.

    Florida seems to have been able to partner with six private insurance companies to offer affordable health insurance coverage with no tax dollars required to create the plan.

  498. Margaret,

    It’s nice that you are willing to give obama a chance. Everyone deserves a “chance”. However, no politician is above reproach, particularly one who ran on bringing in a new error of “transparency and accountability”. So far, I have not seen either.

    As a former democrat who became an independent during the primary after witnessing the dispicable treatment received by Hillary from the obama camp, his supporters, the DNC and the MSM, I am not so quick to just give obama a chance, without first checking to see if what he is telling us jives with his actions.

    I suggest you check out just one of the reports out there regarding his healthcare plan and how it will impact seniors and decide whether he deserves a chance to implement it:


  499. J. Nitzel…..
    Carter started the downfall not Reagan……
    You seem to forget how things were in California before “Ah- nold” got in…..the last one was kicked out(stop trying to change history)(a liberal fault)
    and I would have to believe that Oprah is a Dem so at least one thought he could do miracles(the ONE)

  500. I applaud anyone who is even trying to muddle through the various bills being presented. Sadly I doubt if our state representatives are making the same effort.

    In the House, liberal committee chairmen drafted a bill that doesn’t even represent a consensus of their own members, moderates and conservatives whose votes they need to pass it on the floor. In the Senate, Democrats headed off in different directions. One group produced a partisan bill; another keeps searching for a compromise with Republicans.

    It’s hard for Obama, or anyone, to succinctly advocate health care changes just now because multiple versions are slowly moving through the Democratic-controlled House and Senate.

    “The case has not been made” for a particular version because the eventual legislation is unclear, said Rep. Artur Davis, D-Ala. With critics seizing on the confusion to attack the Democratic proposals’ costs, enhanced government role and uncertain benefits, Davis said Wednesday, the administration soon must decide whether to accept a partial victory that might leave room for a later push for the rest.

    For now, Obama keeps insisting on all the major elements of his far-reaching proposal and warning of dire consequences if they are not enacted

    Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana said he “liked a lot” of what Obama had to say Wednesday night.

    “His marketing is the best part of this,” Jindal added. “You listen to what the president said. He said he does not want to increase the deficit, does not want government control of health care. He wants people to keep their insurance. He wants to crack down on the abuse, the over-utilization. All that’s great. The problem is, that’s not what’s in the House Democrat bill.”

  501. UAW, I think affordable insurance is precisely what everyone here *is* talking about. I don’t recall anyone demanding free healthcare, here or elsewhere.

  502. there’s been a lot said about health care but it should be called medical care instead….people don’t go to the doc because their healthy……..so what we really want is affordable care……are the people that don’t have insurance right now and are going to the emergency room going to start paying the $100 copay(went up 7-1-09 from $55) like I have to do……I don’t think so….so in these discussions we need to think more on affordable insurance and less on “free” insurance….. TNSTAAFL(There’s No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)

  503. As always, you have hit the nail on the head. Limbaugh and his little side kick Palin are two of THE worst humans on the face of the earth. The most frightening part is that the trailer trash who listen to him 24/7 are too stupid to read and understand what is real and what is not. He preys on them with his fear and hate mongering.

    We all know it was little Miss Moose Poop who started the Messiah, savior bullshit as well as alluding to our President as a terrorist, traitor and all the other crap. There is not one Democrat who thought he would come in and save the world in 200 days………Reagan started the downfall, Bush and Clinton let it ride and Baby Bush flushed us down the crapper and that took over 20 years.

    The President is trying to do something positive for America and those who wish him failure or think that there are certain Americans who do not deserve the best this country has to offer are the traitors, the terrorists………the worst of the worst.

    Reagan was a freakin actor…….just like “Ah- nold” and look what he did to California. Reagan hated the middle class and did his best to destroy everyone but the top 2%. Bush continued those policies and Clinton who is one of the bluest of Blue Dogs just let it ride. Baby Bush, in his effort to show daddy that although he could not run a baseball team, he could run a country, put us into the biggest mess in 100 years.

    I am very proud as a Denocrat that we do not just give the President carte blanche, that we discuss and question policies and decisions. This is why we have a Democracy. We need discussion, we need different ideas and then we need to find what is best. The President does not make the laws ( something Baby Bush didn’t get). That is up to the Congress and if they are doing us a disservice then when elections come around, they need to be voted out. Therein lies the biggest difference between Repubs and Democrats…….we do not march in lock step with the party line. We question because we want what is best for all of America.

    Druggie Limbaugh does not, will not……..EVER…….hold a candle to Walter Cronkite. How Republican to make crap out of the deceased.

  504. My across-the-street neighbor finished her MD just a few years ago and *chose* to become a family practice doctor. I will ask her why. Maybe she’ll have some good insights on the primary care provider shortage for us….

  505. lori, thanks for your good wishes. Much appreciated.

    When I lived in Germany, my health insurance card had a computer chip in it that held all my information. Each doctor’s office had a reader for the chip and could access all my information at once. No need for them to exchange info, I had it all with me. Also probably kept the primary physician from all that uncompensated time and might also help with the privacy issue. BTW, this was in the 90′s and I’m sure technology has improved this system since I left Germany.

  506. I think that health care, in the future, will be rationed (substitute a less threatening verb if need be) by the guiding principles of prevention and health maintenance.

    Here is a shocking number: TWO percent of med students surveying in 2008 said they intended to go into primary care/internal medicine. I tried to find numbers for comparison but all I found was a citation from 1991 — when roughly 25% of med students planned to go into generalized medicine.


    Here, the claim is that the decline is between 40 and 50% over the past twenty years or so:


    This also brought me up short — “Looking at 1 billion office visits between 2002 and 2004, a study in the Annals of Family Medicine found that half of all specialist visits were for routine and preventive care that didn’t require specialists, who typically charge more than double what a primary care doctor charges.”


    It’s money, of course, although I also read about issues of long hours, incursions into family time, and the *type* of patient these future docs anticipated having to treat (something about substance abusers and the chronically ill — not a titillating crowd, apparently).

    But it’s mostly money.

    So how can we mandate (or otherwise encourage) that there be an adequate supply of primary care docs? I have heard ideas ranging from debt forgiveness to the dismantling of the current Medicare-dictated reimbursement coding system that favors specialist-driven procedures over what some call “cognitive medicine.”

    It seems to me that some answer to this problem is going to have to be included in reform legislation…

  507. Kitkat… may the white light of the holy spirit surround and protect your mom and your family in this life struggle.

    I have said I am so liberal I bend back around to conservative on the political scale. I do NOT think our healthcare should focus on mandated preventive care.

    I am all about affordable/free preventive healthcare for all that chooses to do so.

    I whole heartedly believe health EDUCATION is necessary and should be availabe to all. However it should not be mandated..

    Let freedom ring.. and that includes ALLLLLLL aspects of personal choice, from the living room to the bedroom and especially my doctors’ office……It is none of my government’s bizness what goes on in my doctors’ office concerning my personal care.

  508. Elisabeth Hasselbeck is an IDIOT!!!

    Just had to say that…sorry.
    I feel much better now.

  509. kitkat:

    Our state is in the process of implementing just such an information exchange. My primary care physician is a participant. But she has a complaint. There is an enormous time commitment involved in entering the necessary data into the data base and physicians are not compensated for that time. It is most difficult for the primary care provider because in any given day he or she will see many more patients than a specialist.

    On the other hand, she sees enormous benefits and makes sure that all her referrals are to other physicians in the group because she said she is now seldom blindsided by a patient who has been seeing another physician without her knowledge and she always has a ready list of medications and diagnoses in front of her at any time she needs them.

    I have seen the benefits also. I no longer need to recap my extensive medical history for each physician I visit. They have all the info at their fingertips.

    Of course, one big issue is security. Many patients are understandably nervous about all their personal medical information floating around in a system that could be breached.

  510. James, I think Jean might have been referring to UAW, not you. You are at *least* a member of the 19th century. ;)

    I’ve never understood the supposed “liberal bias” of the media. Almost all major media are controlled by corporations and have a very non-progressive (i.e., conservative), mainstream, dumbing-down, corporate slant to them. Only the public media (PBS, NPR, etc.) seems to take objective reporting and analysis seriously.

  511. Good morning all,

    I appreciate the pushback….. thanks to all…

    This struggle will get uglier,,, the insults will get worse and even more personal, the political/lobby machine is relentless….Let’s remain vigilant. Do not back down, do not be distracted. Do not let the rich and powerful hijack this very important issue. We need change and we need it now, for my children and yours, for our elderly and our very young, for our neighbors and our friends… The time has come. and iF it means getting called a few names, so be it.. ;-) namaste’

  512. Non-traditional therapists should be licensed, such as chiropractors and acupuncturists are. And I firmly believe in these services, as I think they can handle many of the basic health issues and there is more to our health than Western medicine knows.

    But by holistic, I also meant that one doctor should be involved in all your care, even if you are taking a non-traditional approach, and not broken down into so many specialties that don’t talk to one another. My mom is currently battling ovarian cancer and sees so many doctors, but they don’t share notes, tests, or anything. The right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing, and her “primary care doctor” has basically handed it all over to the specialists. I worry that things are missed because she is bouncing from doctor to doctor with no communication. When I’ve accompanied her, I’ve asked the different doctors the same question and get different answers. It’s frustrating. If one person could evaluate or conference with the specialists, it might be better. While this is what the primary dr. is supposed to do, I don’t think it happens in the real world.

  513. I applaud James for reading the various versions of healthcare reform being touted. I’m still wading through some of that myself surrounded by FL insurance regs, HIPAA regs, ADA etc. . .so see how/what will be impacted, if anything. And Kitkat, you’ve really hit the nail on the head – our healthcare system really needs to focus on preventative care – but that’s hard too – how many people listen when the MD says no trans fat, more exercise, no smoking, no soda, etc. . . they refuse to see the correlation between ill health & their personal desires. I am amazed that in FL at least morbid obesity is considered a disability – WTF??? And while I believe that adjunctive therapies should be incorporated into any health care plan, my concern is that many of these practices are not well regulated, hard to quantify for efficacy, and rift with too many charlatans. I wonder if there is a website for rating these folks like there is for rating MDs, professors, vets, etc?

  514. I just want them to read the bill before they support it, criticize it, or vote on it. Anyone else who takes the time to read it and even attempt to understand it has my respect.

    In my observations, Fox News readers are predominantly biased to the conservative side. CNN is the least obviously biased in any direction, with Lou Dobbs really starting to gain momentum in falling over on his right side. The rest of cable and network news readers are mostly biased toward the left. MSNBC isn’t even worth mentioning. Do they even attempt the news anymore? Looks to me like it’s all commentary over there. But it’s not only about the leanings of the news readers, it’s about the content of the news they choose to cover. Anyway, not suggesting anyone else is wrong – just giving my opinion ;)

    Walter Cronkite was a cool guy. My mom liked him a lot. I never thought she might have had a thing for him, but now I wonder…

    Why are you listening to Rush, Helen? There’s something about his delivery, not to mention the content of his rhetoric, that makes me feel a little ill. It starts in my ears and then just kinda’ sits there in my chest for a while. One controlled motion that consists of placing my finger on the tuning knob and making an adjustment and miraculously I start feeling better! I highly recommend my method of preventative medicine.

  515. I agree, Greytdog, but we also need to focus on preventive care. We are a country that would rather fix something that goes wrong than prevent it in the first place. When I lived in Germany, preventive care was a BIG focus of their healthcare system. They also approached health holistically and not as compartmentalized as our system here is.

  516. This country has been “working” on healthcare reform for over 60 years. I think that’s long enough. The current debate has nothing to do with “care” and everything to do with reforming health insurance; coming up fast behind it will be how to make health care truly accessible – not through insurance coverage or even a public option, but by getting the primary care providers in the areas most needed – rural communities, impoverished communities, in Appalachia & on the reservations, in the deep South and in the vast landscapes of the West. We need to reform health care away from the overemphasis on specialty care and back to the family practitioner &/or nurse practitioner. We need to look at how we deliver healthcare, not just how we pay for it.

  517. I think Obama will not be known for his Universal Health Care program but for being the first black president. WHich is a good thing. I am thankful that Sarah Palin doesn’t know which way is up or down and that she is lost in Alaska. The real worry, for me, is that Jeb Bush will be the next Bush in the Whine House. Remember who you voted for.

  518. James, to be liberal is to be unbiased, that is what the word means.

  519. Kelleback, most network news readers have a liberal bias. Some of them have admitted it. The latest proof is how they have ignored the contents of the House version of the health care bill.

    I’ve read part of David Brock’s book. He is a former conservative who changed course, in part for personal reasons. His book was grinding an ax. Yes, there is a right wing media, and it uses similar tricks as the left. However, the left dominates network and some cable news. The right dominates talk shows and Fox.

    I have been making a lot of noise to my representatives and encouraging others to do too. They are our employees and they have proved many times they are not to be trusted without oversight. The time to tweak a bill is now, not when it is enacted. So I keep “telling it like it is.”

    I don’t drink, so I don’t hang around bars.
    Thanks for the complement about my fine mind, Jean. At least you didn’t place me in Roman times. The eight century is fitting since I have a few Viking ancestors who probably helped sack and pillage Europe.

    In return, I think you would have had one of the finest minds in “Alice in Wonderland.”

    Yesterday, two posters tried to disprove what I wrote with links to other sources. Twice the links which were supposed to discredit what I had written supported it.

    A network reporter said even Charlie Wrangle said the bill is moving too fast but there is H”’ to pay telling Nancy Pelosi that, much less the president. I heard the quote with my own ears from our Omaha NBC station. Why?

    This song expresses my feelings for our government.

    “Working starts to make me wonder where
    the fruits of what I do are going
    He says ‘in love and war, all is fair’
    But he’s got cards he ain’t showin

    He tells me I’d better get in line
    Can’t hear what he’s sayin
    When I grow up, I’m going to make it mine
    These aren’t dues I been payin

    How much does it cost? I’ll buy it.
    The time is all we’ve lost I’ll try it.
    He can’t even run his own life.
    I’ll be damned if he runs mine.”

    Jonathan Edwards

  520. To conclude this James:

    T apparently felt that there is something freakish about the 2 of us and I am quite ok with that up to a point.

  521. Sorry James,
    I did not mean to insult you. I was responding to that T person in a jovial way.At the time I did not realize that that commenter was getting out of control-as in “beserker”
    Double rainbows are very nice, hopeful signs.

  522. My husband enjoys reading over my shoulder when I read your blog. He loves the fact that you are not slowing down and are still paying attention.

    However, he must respectfully state: “How dare she put Uncle Walter in the same sentence with Rush Dimbulb? Will she next put Faux (oops Fox) News in the same category with All Things Considered? Don’t insult the dead. ” {As he mutters off saying … she always hits the nail on the head and chuckling to himself about “I have to remember that line”.}

    Keep telling it like is!

  523. James, the news isn’t liberal. It’s just that facts have a liberal bias and Repugs are unacquainted with the truth.

    I suggest a bit of reading:
    THE REPUBLICAN NOISE MACHINE: Right-Wing Media and How It Corrupts Democracy by David Brock (Crown, May 2004)

  524. Hi gang,

    There are plenty of thoughtful comments here about the need for Health Care today. You are a quite savvy bunch of informed people. Of course, there are always the usual few negative-no-matter-what-hubris types, but who cares?

    The House Bill and the Senate Bill are works in progress and will be tweaked dozens of times right down to the wire before the votes are cast. I think it is an exercise in futility to nit-pick every little thing that may or may not wind up in the final draft. To say nothing of the ‘pork’ or ‘earmarks’ that will try to be sneaked in, in order to bargain for a vote here and there. That’s nothing new.

    We voted our senators and representatives into office last November, remember? If we didn’t want them, WE, in our infinite wisdom, should have run for office ourselves – and won. We didn’t. So now we should trust their judgement to do what’s best for the country.

    Once and for all, I concede to our resident Republican a grade of ‘A’ in singleminded-determined-continuance and persistence. Grades are very important to him. After all, he has one of the best minds of the eighth century!

    We can continue to serve him his tea and pie. It’s keeping him out of bars and off street corners.


    Auntie Jean

  525. Hi gang and Sistah Sally,

    Re: yours of 2:08P today. Here, here!!!!!

    Sometimes it is uphill but we will keep trying and who knows, maybe Namaste will set in.

    I had a lovely experience today. At Costco I caught the eye of a baby (12-14) months in a cart with his busy, harrased shopping mama. He had obviously just learned how to play “peek-a-boo” and “wave bye”.

    So we each played “peek-a-boo” and “bye-bye” back and forth for a good 20 minutes and gave his mama a break. He giggled and giggled. I’m sure some of the other shoppers thought the addled, white haired old woman was daft but that baby and I sure had fun!!!


    Auntie Jean

  526. This fall will be 30 years that my best friend Tan and I have been best friends. I sent her the link to this page and said , OMG Tan, it’s us! – because someday it will be!

    I am humbled by your 60 years and hope beyond all that Tan and I will be the Margaret and Helen of our time!

  527. Dog gone, go listen to Hannity, Rush, and O’Reilly for an hour. It will kill the buzz and counteract the left spin with a right spin and land you right back where you were before you started in here. Back to zero. You’ll feel better if you don’t have to do the thinking.

  528. I haven’t noticed the media being liberal around here. During the Bush Admin, the national press didn’t dare breathe a ‘discouraging word’ for fear of being refused access. Since there’s no investigative reporting any more, they just ‘rip and read’ from whatever the press secretary gives them. (Molly Ivins described them as trained seals waiting for meal time).

    The corporations who own our local stations are right wing and have a visible influence on content. But I have noticed one of our local commentators has switched viewpoints – prior to January, he was as right wing as they come. Now, he’s decidedly more progressive. Finger in the wind, which way is it blowing……Just funny. I have to wonder if he believes any of it.

    I miss Uncle Walter.

  529. Some insurance companies cover those penis pumps.

    Sure, help an aging male with circulatory issues get a woodie, but screw women who are trying to control their ovulation.

    I did a post on it January 3rd after seeing a late-night infomercial about it. Pro-vac is the brand name. Ticked me right the hell off…

  530. Tine, What I don’t get is how those guests that are somewhat off kilter and nuts have the chutzpah to be on her show!

    Good to see you posting again skyewriter. Have you read the Health Care package yet?

    Werner, how was your trip?

    dog gone, Time is the most valuable asset you have. Spend yours wisely.

    Obamahead Sally

  531. Oh good grief. Oprah? Does anyone take that caricature seriously?

    Don’t get me wrong…I admire her chutzpah and self-made-ness. I just don’t listen to a word she says. Never watched her and never will.

  532. GAH! How depressing to think I’ll never be able to get back the time I just wasted reading this drivel and the brainless comments by all the Obamaheads here.

  533. Push that health care through. It doesn’t have to be perfect. We can tweak it.

    If we lose insurance companies, oh well. How many of them have contributed to the well being of the people. They are only the middlemen in this system that bog it down and are usually unfairly calling the shots. Insurance companies have greatly contributed to the cost of health care.

    As to the weapon builders…retool. Build the new energy efficient transportation. All things must adapt or fade into the sunset…

  534. uh oh greytdog mentioned the ‘a word’ thats a for sure bell ringer for the nutters to come out from under their rocks ;)

    your dad sounds like he was a courageous and incredibly unselfish human being

    I have also chosen to limit my care at the end of my life for similar reasons

    “We Democrats know that Obama is not the Messiah – that BS was created by the Republicans and the idiots that watch Fox”
    Wasn’t it Oprah that called him “THE ONE”

    oprah doesnt speak for me either, I think she does good things with her wealth but sometimes she is a bit too out there for me

    ‘…covering viagra but not birth control pills, and not covering mammograms (currently under medicare my mother has to pay for her own mammograms- ridiculous).’

    kitkat, you hit one of my raw nerves with that one, you are so right

    james I got a ‘not found’ when I clicked on that link

  535. Birther? You mean Berserker?

    The word you’ve entered isn’t in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar.


  536. Mistruth is a nice way of saying A LIE
    Just like saying “birther” rather than bigoted whackjob

  537. Lori – what the hell is a “mistruth” anyway? Do you mean musk turtle?

    The word you’ve entered isn’t in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar.

    muster out
    musk turtle

  538. Lisa G, the news is liberal. You are right that many commentators are conservative, but they are interpreting the news to fit their opinions, and they are not reporters.

    PalinShutup, Ia Sen Grassely’s rep gave me this address for at least one Senate version of the health care bill. It is help.senate.gov. I haven’t checked it yet because I have been working outside.

    The other site is http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press-111/20090714/aahca.pdf You might be able to google Twitter/Tom Perriello; full text of the health bill or something like that. Its the house bill that worries me. Our Senators and Representative’s people told me the sections I mentioned in an earlier post are in the bill. The language is lawerly and subject to interpretation.

    Greytdog, it is true our current system rations health care, but under the House version more people would suffer that fate, and it wouldn’t save any money.

    Obama did say he didn’t know about the provision in the bill a caller asked him about. I cited the quote earlier. Perhaps he knew and didn’t want to talk about it. It is also true that a government provider would wipe out private insurance for most of us. It wouldn’t happen overnight, but it would through accretion. Read the bill.

    Gerald, I am only doing my duty to pay attention and influence my legislators.

    Yes, Secret talkerA, “there is James.” I just took a picture of a double rainbow after a small hail storm. A friend’s grandmother just finished with successful cancer surgery. What could be better than that?

  539. kitkak, you’re exactly right. Denial of coverage due to pre-existing conditions is rationing of care by insurance companies. Same with the other items you mentioned. If you are “lucky” enough to have health insurance, look at the “not covered” part of your policy. This is the part of your policy where the insurance companies, in fine print, ration care. The other way of course is when they deny a test or procedure as “not medically necessary” – and that is solely based on economics thru the use of actuary tables. The only health insurance companies are concerned with is their own profit health.

  540. TMI….goood one…
    how about….
    Lori….Making the right look good…

  541. interesting ……
    Oprah bashers….here…..
    I just thought that anyone that loves 3/4′s of the View would fawn over Oprah also….
    Well M&H….you bashed Elisabeth……how about Oprah….

  542. something for the F-22 jet manufacturers to think about….
    turbine electric car….


  543. Greytdog-
    how about not allowing pre-existing conditions as a form of rationing, as well as covering viagra but not birth control pills, and not covering mammograms (currently under medicare my mother has to pay for her own mammograms- ridiculous).

    As for Oprah, watch her reactions and you can tell that she doesn’t intellectually grasp some topics and uses the hyperbole to cover.

  544. I love M&H and I LOVE PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!!
    He is exactly what this nation needs right now.

  545. UAW, who watches Oprah? The woman is hyperbole personified. I remember watching her when she first came on the national horizon -she seemed authentic in her interactions with the audience & her guests- now she seems. . . contrived, like watching a really hokey self-help psychobabble book being played out on the teevee. ugh. Referencing Oprah is a bit like referencing Geraldo – soundbyte, no substance.

  546. “The moon is in cancer, and we are having an eclipse soooo that might explain the drama. Or maybe it’s just something else…” – lori


  547. Lisa G…
    “We Democrats know that Obama is not the Messiah – that BS was created by the Republicans and the idiots that watch Fox”
    Wasn’t it Oprah that called him “THE ONE”

  548. When I grow up, I want my best friend Mel(issa) and I to be just like you two. Only I want purple hair.

  549. Anyone notice how the hollerin’ match on health-insurance reform sidesteps this word: RATIONING. Well guess what – health care is already rationed; by insurance companies, by patients, by doctors, and yes, by the government. We have to discuss rationing – that is, we have to discuss, as a nation, what will be fully covered, partially covered, or not covered at all. When we, as a nation, deny medical funding to impoverished people because the monies might be used for birth control or abortion, that is rationing health care. When we warehouse out elderly without enforceable regulations & oversight, that is rationing healthcare. And when we ignore the lack of primary care providers in rural communities, we are rationing healthcare. But often times, we, as patients, ration our own healthcare. For instance, when my dad was diagnosed with leukemia, he chose to NOT be on the bone marrow list. He felt that at his age of 82 (at time of diagnosis) that he might well be denying a chance to someone younger, someone who had a full life ahead of them – and ethically he just felt the decision to not participate was right for him. When I filed my living will & final directive, I made the choice to fully ration any end-of-life care. I chose to ration care based on ethics, my personal morals, & yes, economics. I don’t think “ration” is actually the correct word, but for now, it’s the only one that immediately comes to mind – but the discussion is much more involved and much more dialectic than that mere word implies. I think, as a nation, we need to start this dialogue.

  550. interesting…..


  551. Thanks for passing the pie, greytdog. I think I lost mine somewhere a few months ago…

    [Waving 'hi' to Tine and Sally and all the others I have missed in my absence from the best porch on the web.]

    Nice to see a healthy discussion continues on M&H. I have some catching up to do in the archives.

    Light and love to everyone,
    skyewriter Δ

  552. I really like Bob Cesca’s piece on HuffPo today: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/crazy-wingnut-healthcare_b_243075.html

    He threads all the crazy together and comes up with a pretty impressive quilt. He is especially intrigued by the Lewin Report statistics the nutters keep referencing, as I am. From Bob’s website:

    >The Republicans, along with various cable news wingnuts, are fond of quoting scary numbers from a report issued by the Lewin Group. For example, Michele Bachmann’s line, “Approximately 114 million Americans are expected to leave private health insurance,” is taken from the Lewin Group report.

    Well, holy shit what’s this:

    ~Generally left unsaid amid all the citations is that the Lewin Group is wholly owned by UnitedHealth Group, one of the nation’s largest insurers.

    More specifically, the Lewin Group is part of Ingenix, a UnitedHealth subsidiary that was accused by the New York attorney general and the American Medical Association, a physician’s group, of helping insurers shift medical expenses to consumers by distributing skewed data. Ingenix supplied its parent company and other insurers with data that allegedly understated the “usual and customary” doctor fees that insurers use to determine how much they will reimburse consumers for out-of-network care.

    In January, UnitedHealth agreed to a $50 million settlement with the New York attorney general and a $350 million settlement with the AMA, covering conduct going back as far as 1994.~


  553. TMZ***happy that my photo has caught your interest=lol…& then there is James.

  554. I miss Melt Down Lori…when will she come back?

  555. James, I really do feel kind of sorry for you. Your world seems so dark and sad. Tends to be the way many on the the right choose to live these days.

  556. here are some links I havent had a chance to check out yet, some of it sound a little familiar no? (hint hint james)

    More Health Care Scare

    Could a public insurance plan spell the end of private insurance companies?


    factcheck on Obama’s health care plan


    and Pushing for a Public plan


  557. Oh, and in response to those posting about Limbaugh pulling his shirt away from him – this is a nervous habit (if you watch him for a little while, he does it every every couple of minutes) indicating that he’s lying. Like Michael Steele tugging on his ear when asked about who his health care provider is. (Which, ha, ha, he didn’t know!) It’s a great video – look it up on http://www.huffingtonpost.com.

  558. Margaret and Helen – once again you are spot on. Rush couldn’t hold a candle to Cronkite; the ‘news broadcasters’ now are just that – people who read the news. But please be careful listening to Rush – that **** will fry your brain. A friend of mine who listened to Rush lived with me for a while when he was out of work. I told him ‘not in my house’. I actually made him sit outside to listen to him. The man is a drug addled liar and everything that comes out of his mouth is pure crap. How and why people believe that spew is unfathomable to me. Unfortunately, the age of unbiased news is gone now, along with Mr. Cronkite. What we are left with is people who comment on the news rather than report it. Sad.

    James, the news is not liberal anymore – there are far more conservative commentators than there are liberal ones on TV.

    I love seeing a new post from you both – you’re on my regular reading list and you both just keep getting better and better! Keep up the great work. Since my grandmas both died a few years ago, will you adopt me? :)

    Grandma Katie, never worry about your typing – we are all just glad to see you post to know that you are doing ok. Don’t apologize, we know it’s hard for you – we just like hearing from you!

    We Democrats know that Obama is not the Messiah – that BS was created by the Republicans and the idiots that watch Fox. While I’m not thrilled with everything he’s done, he’s human and I’m willing to give him a chance. None of us wanted Bush to fail – he did that all on his own. And it is nice to hear an intelligent, thoughtful president who can actually form complete sentences and not embarrass us in foreign countries like that asshat. Jeez, every time he went somewhere he made a complete jackass out himself; thank God, he finally slithered back to Texas. In the final year of his residency, I kept hoping that someone would lock him in a closet or put him in Cheney’s undisclosed location.

    Keep up the great work ladies! Cheers to you both!

  559. does anyone happen to have the gov link to Obama’s Health care proposal?

    I dont mean the link to blogs critiquing and dissecting the plan, Id like to see the raw version of it

  560. Seems like all these soon-to-be out-of-work defense workers will also be out of health insurance. Doubt many of them will be able to afford the Cobra payments. When my husband got laid off, it was $1350 a month just for the basic plan. To pay for the coverage we actually had, it would have cost $2000 a month. That alone tells you how broken our healthcare system is.

    I’ve contacted my representatives and the White House — any one have any other ideas of how to be heard? I feel like if 75% of the people want this, we should be making some noise.

  561. LOL Sally, I am not having a bad day at all, I have spent a lovely afternoon with my sweetheart of a daughter. (16 yr old) Her smile lights up a room and she spreads her lil bit of sunshine wherever she goes, but thanks for thinking of me I pay no attention to the men behind the curtain, it’s a typical red herring tactic meant to cause distractions. It usually is one blogger under a few names..;-)

    The moon is in cancer, and we are having an eclipse soooo that might explain the drama. Or maybe it’s just something else…

    Right on cue rushbo continues his fear mongering, and you will NEVER believe it but HE is perpetuating the lie about the elderly not being able to get care under the “democrats” plan, Obama not knowing what’s in the bill, and my very favorite….Obama’s plan will force everyone to government care… Hunnn whooddda thunk it?? lol

  562. Lori, I can see why you are having a bad day. I checked the link you provided and it proved my point that Obama DID say he didn’t know what all was in the bill.

    The President made a conference call to leftist bloggers urging them to pressure Congress to pass his health care plan as soon as possible.

    During the call, a caller from Maine asked about a Business Daily article that claimed Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance. He asked “is this true?”

    Obama replied “”You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.” Granted the “outlaw” term was overstated, but Obama didn’t comment except to say he wasn’t familiar with that part of the bill. If he was, he would have said so, unless he didn’t want to talk about it. It was around page 12, early in the reading ordeal.

    Rep Steve King’s and Sen Chuck Grassely’s reps both told me they think the other provisions I asked about are in the House bill. They said the Senate has several versions.

    jsri, I agree with your appreciation of the F 22 Raptor. It is a magnificent machine, and I am glad we have it in our arsenal. No one can predict the military challenges we will face in the future. The day may come when we are grateful for everyone of those planes. Another potential enemy will some day build a plane which can challenge the F 22.

    However, if we need enough for now, the money is better spent on something else. I read that thousands of people will be out of work if the plane is discontinued, and that is a tragedy. However, our military procurement process is not a jobs program. It’s purpose is buy materials important to our national defense.

    I think some of the saved money ought to be spent on retraining the folks who lose their jobs. Rebuilding our infrastructure or paying for veterans’ medical treatment might be good uses too. Applying it to health care might work as long as the government used it as temporary found money. Iowa has used Indian casino gambling money for many worthy projects, but when fewer people lost money gambling, the state funding declined too.

    Building electric cars might be an option if we were sure our coal and oil powered power plants had enough capacity to cope with the extra power drain.

    I liked Micheal Jackson’s songs too. We are the World was also one of my favorites , though I liked Billie Jean too.

    Werner, I like ukulele music. I hope our slow dial up service works when I find time to listen to you.

    For Granny Smith’s benefit. I came in to rest my back. Now I am going out to cut more brush and another downed tree.

  563. If you haven’t emailed/written/called your representative and senators to tell them you want health care reform, including a public option and you want it to kick in in 2010 NOT 2013– what are you waiting for?

    Let’s use our numbers. This is the time!!

  564. Hello Ladies!
    I went away for a quick visit with the children and came back to find a new post! What a delight! You two are simply devine in my book!

    Hello to all out there in the great cyber worldness of it all. Hope all of you are well.

    I must admit, I do agree with Margaret. Something about that Walter Conkrite did it for me too. I’d take brains over brawn any day! So there you have it, I’ve said my peace for now. Have a great day!

  565. Will do, Werner.

    I’m just teasing, by the way… As a truly mediocre mandolin player, the last thing I would do is seriously critique someone else’s musical skills.

  566. Tine, I am just starting on the Uke, if you wanna hear a real bluesy ukulelist (and this one is a swede!) try this link:

    he really CAN play, I am just starting to try…..

  567. And sorry forgot to mention that maintenance cost (30 hrs+ for every hour flight)

    That makes sure that health care takes second place for a looong time….

  568. Sally: Though you may question your hubby’s uke-playing skills, I’m guessing a ukulele player (even a bad one) doesn’t stand out too much in Hawaii. By contrast, a trilingual German blues-playing ukulelist no doubt sticks out like a sore thumb in Montreal! :D

  569. F22 Rap(e)tor = a rather smooth way to rape taxpayers.

    You got air dominance, so what the heck you need 160+ of those buggers for?

    You got all the bragging rights already!

    Now if that kinda cash where here to spend on health care……. but no, no THAT would make sense…….

    if it wouldn’t be for religious issues, (my wife is a even more fierce atheist than I am) she’d be right there with him in the garden…….(She loves most of my guitar music, but the uke gets her running…..)

  570. Werner,

    Pretty good ukulele picking!

    I hope you have a better wife than I am to my husband. As soon as he picks up his ukulele, I head out to the garden.


  571. Lori, I am guessing you are having a rather bad day. I can see why – there seems to be more worms coming out against Obama and his policies on tv recently, and it is not with reason, but with racism, solidarity, and inclusiveness.

    I just saw Liz Cheney on the Larry King show. She was obnoxious, rude, and perpetuated the Obama = bad for the country way of thinking.

    I think the Republican/Conservative Obama haters are so into “their” America, just as they are also the kind of Christians that are into their own kind of church.

    My newly baptized Jehovah’s Witness husband is the best man I know. However, I will never convert because the one turn off for me in that religion is that it believes that it is the ONLY right religious group. Same thing goes for Mormons, Baptists, Holy Rollers, et al. Everyone else is not right.

    Sounds just like the Bushites and Rushites. The exclusive brotherhood of whities.

    We have that here in Hawaii too. Except it is the opposite way. It is the brotherhood of the brownies. We have some pockets of angry brown people that hate the haoles (white) and feel that they are entitled because of who they are and not what they do.

    Most of us are not like that. Jean can attest to that with her great relationships on Kauai. She earns respect by giving respect.

    I believe if the Rushites, Bushites, Religious Rights, and Brownites could learn to do/say/feel “Namaste”, we’d all be better off, world wide.

    The Cheney/Palin crowd who are so upset with Obama’s reaching out to other countries could do with a dose of Namaste too.

    Michael Jackson (whether you loved him or hated him) did make great music. My favorite song of his is “We Are the World”. It wasn’t just about our great country, but everyone, worldwide.

    It is a Namaste kind of song and I would love to see/hear Bushes, Cheneys, Palins, Rush, Ann, Bill and all those other insulated close-minded righteous people sing it out one day when they finally get it.

  572. Jean:
    Jo in Atlanta:
    Susan in CT:

    Re: F-22 Raptor

    I went to an airshow recently that featured a double bill, The Blue Angels and the Canadian Snowbirds. While the featured acts were impressive, the show stopper was the appearance of an F-22 Raptor.

    As a one time airplane driver I am fascinated by flying machines and the Raptor is awesome. It can do some things no other aircraft in the skies can do. It can fly vertically and slow to a hovering stop holding itself up by the sheer power of its engines. Unfortunately, there is probably no aerial opponent that can stand up to it so its need is questionable.

    But the killer is the price. You could buy two world class Boeing 777′s or a couple Airbus 340′s for less than the cost of one F-22. And given that air dominance is already in our grasp even with our fourth generation fighters what is the point of this excess. It makes no sense at all.

    I realize it a jobs issue, but wouldn’t it be more appropriate for the money to be spent to bolster our crumbling infrastructure. Otherwise we will have total world fifth generation air supremacy with a crumbling second generation highway system.

    Or we could apply it to health care.

  573. Out of context warning: grease your scroll finger!

    Sally, Jean and to all the regulars that ARE interessted:

    I stated before that I love and live the Blues, so I just posted my first ever blues on a UKULELE!

    Just follow the link through my screen name…..(just scroll down if I posted more inbetween now and when….)

  574. “What do Rush Limbaugh and the Hindenburg have in common? One’s a Huge Flaming Nazi Gasbag and the other is just a Zeppelin…Duh!”

    Thanks Helen and Margaret for another clear and concise post.

  575. Senator Grassley’s line is busy. Senator Harkin’s office told me I am looking at the House bill on the web site I listed. He told me the Senate version is at help.senate.gov. He also told me it might lock up my computer as the House version did for about forty minutes.

    Senator Harkin’s rep didn’t know if the last few items I listed are actually in the bill, though he confirmed the first are.

    I haven’t had time to check the Senate bill. After an attempt to call Rep Steve King and Sen Ben Nelson, I will be working outside again.

  576. Love the post, so many great lines. I don’t remember how I found your blog, but I enjoy it very much, and added it to my daily reads. I look forward to more words of wisdom from you both.

  577. Δ Δ Δ Δ Δ Δ Δ pie for folks, have a piece !

  578. As a Georgian, I can say that even folks in Marrietta knew that F22 contract was silly. The current contract ought to keep them busy while they plan for the next project. Our manufacturing facilities need to be making things people want, not just spending tax dollars. It would have been a jobs program of astounding levels. I am in favor of the defense department having the money. But I would like to see it go to supporting our troops, both active and disabled. Just consider how far that money would go to refurbishing veterens hospitals, funding research for advanced prosthetics, and stuff like that.

  579. Dear M and H
    Your blog is the best that I read (about 12 so far). But I do worry about your sanity. First you read Ann Coulters book and now I hear you are listening to Rush. Please be careful that you don’t overdo this. Listening or reading too much crap from the right wing can do serious damage to your brain.

    Personally I don’t know how you do it. Just watching the short clips of Rush on other news shows make me wonder how this man has any listeners. Then I realize that there is a portion of this country that does not think for themselves. With his constant statements that he wants the president to fail, could he be tried for teason? Just wondering. And Ann Coulter should be charged with hate crimes. Just hoping.

    Whenever there is a new post from you, it makes my day brighter, more hopeful. And reading the comments from your faithful followers gives me hope that there is a growing portion of the population that realized this country has turned a corner and is entering a new phase. We just need to keep it moving. There is hope.

  580. The Thune Amendment defeated. Whew!

  581. LOVE YOU LADIES!!!!!

  582. Either we can bemoan the end of 20th century industrialization or retool it to create a 21st century economic/industrial power. What we spend on defense *& programs like the F-22 – could be used towards education, healthcare, clean energy technology, green housing, etc.

  583. Or how about making parts for electric cars or more fuel efficient cars..or something like that even?

  584. Jean sez “I’m amending my earlier piece. I watched the Leherer report this evening. It is F-22 fighter airplanes, not F-16’s as I wrote. Those babies cost 360 (that’s THREE-HUNDRED-SIXTY MILLION DOLLARS) – – -EACH!!!! Obama, Gates and the Pentagon agreed to cancel the order for something like 42 of ‘em. You do the math. That alone would buy a whole lot of Health Care.

    “Chamblis of Georgia had a hissifit. Figures.”

    We’re a little concerned here in CT as well — lots of jobs in the making of engines. Now I wonder how much re-tooling it would take to instead make parts for high-speed or commuter trains, etc…..

  585. @ Lori 7:00 am:
    >let us not take a page from the Repugs handbook and start insisting our party ALL march to the beat of the same drummer<

    Marching to the beat of the same drummer is not how the Dems roll, agreed, which is probably one reason why I am one.


    I don't think anyone can deny that the healthcare issue is probably one of the biggest human rights violation that has been allowed to flourish in this country. It is past time for the stranglehold the Medical Syndicate has on us to end and we may NEVER AGAIN in our lifetimes have the perfect storm of a 60 count Senate majority, a majority in the House and a Democratic President who will sign the bill into law.

    This is literally DEADLY important to people and for the blue-dogs to be playing games with it in order to keep stuffing their pockets with Health Insurance/Big Pharma Mafia campaign cash while pretending fiscal concern… well, it's simply unacceptable.

    I hope you're right that they will come around. Lives depend on it. 75% of the population are on board. Drumming/marching/whatever is not an option.

  586. Thanks to those of you about my spelling! Usually my spelling is not bad but sometimes I goof.
    Noow to bring up an old subject. WAs channel surfing last night and ran across the Bio program. Of all people it was on Palin and her run for VP. Fortunately it was for ust a few minutes to the end. My digestion would not have taken anymore. All that comes out of her mouth is Stupid, and does not make sense. And as for her looks, well, there is nothing pretty to me. The inner stupid just comes to the surface.

  587. Helen and Margaret,
    I love this blog and you are very funny.
    The comments here are funny too!!

    Thank you!

  588. Another wonderful post Helen AND Margaret!!
    Well worth the wait!!

  589. So, let’s see…that photo of yours, Lori, is your head exploding?? I get it now.

    Great Post Helen!!!!

  590. Lori dear, calm down, maybe you don’t realize it, but today, you are the one being all snarky. Your argument will have much validity to those with opposing views if you would take the anger, insults and snarkiness out of your comments. Just sayin’

  591. wwwWWWOOOWWWwwwww!!!
    Chill Baby Chill….

  592. Candace, you are damn right I am defensive. I refuse to stand back and allow mistruths and GOP talking points to go unchallenged. And I refuse to be shouted down by a bully who has nothing better to do then be a snarky troll. I refuse to remain silent while the likes of Rushbo, buttercup, and all their followers talk out of their asses.

    Now if you don’t like what I have to say…. May I suggest scrollllll baby scroooolllllll. asshat!

  593. Anonymous, I am trying to read the bill personally, but a thousand pages of this stuff is hard to follow. Moreover, our slow dial up required forty minutes for the entire bill to down load. I finally decided to minimize it and will see if it is still there and not interfering with the computer after I put it to sleep and re awaken it tomorrow.

    So far, I have checked blogs which quote passages. I try to confirm them by reading other blogs, and when I find time, I see if they actually appear on the copy I am trying to read. I then call my Senators and Representatives for their reactions.

    I’m sure it is available on other sources. Mine is http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press-111/200970714/aahca.pdf. or as shown on google, Twitter/Tom Perriello: full text of the health care bill, or something to that effect.

    The short title is “America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009.” Tom Perriello is a Virginia Congressman, I believe.

    I would appreciate if a lot of people would read the bill and share their conclusions. Reading it is “a long hard slog.” I certainly hope I have the right bill.

    I know Granny Smith is concerned about my activities. We just broke a paint scraper, so I am down stairs looking for another.

    lori, I learned at an early age to extrapolate from limited information. It kept me safe in the service, and it improved my MA thesis. I extrapolated to keep our farm in business, and though I made huge blunders, I was right more often than not. My self confidence comes from experience.

    Meteorologists and economists do it all the time.

    Iowa State University’s extension climatologist told a radio audience that the state would have plenty of rainfall and good crops in 2005. I publically disagreed with him in some detail. He didn’t like hearing an upstart radio caller telling him he was wrong.

    But I was right, and he was wrong. While most places had good crops the area within a twenty mile radius of our farm had a crop failure. A Sioux City television station showed a picture of our yard stick in a 34 inch deep crack in the ground.

    I didn’t want to dig ourselves into another financial hole, so I rented one of our farms to a neighbor knowing we would be assured the cash rent as income.

    I applogized for renting it to him because I was leaving him holding the bag. He thought I was crazy. No one he knew said he was sorry for renting land. All he cared about was that he was getting another farm. He took a bath on the farm and had little crop, but he still had to pay me the cash rent. The next summer was just as dry, and he lost money again.

    He had to borrow the money to pay what he owed us. In effect our neighbor was subsidizing the rest of our drought stricken farm operation with his cash rent payments. Our neighbor joked ” I remember someone telling me we were going to have a drought, but I didn’t believe him.”

    One of my most recent blunders is happening now. It was so dry through the first week of June that we didn’t even have mosquitoes. Lawns were already beginning to turn brown. I extrapolated that with la nino not expected to fade until later in the summer our weather would be dry.

    El nino died sooner than expected, and we got 5.84 inches of rain in June and over 7.20 in July so far. That is more than we get in whole summers. July may turn out to be a record wet month. I was wrong as I could be.

  594. ” I guess the Americans with Disabilities Act needs to be revisited again to include “Republican” as a form of mental impairment because this has gotten out of hand.”

    Best line ever.

  595. M & H,
    I’ve missed you both! Glad you’re back, speaking the truth without candor. You are refreshing and this post was worth the wait.
    Hope you are both well and staying cool in this Texas heat, Margaret!

  596. Have to agree…Lori…sounding a bit defensive. No need for attacks here really. Many disagree.
    Take Margaret’s advice from a previous post of months ago…use “asshat” every once in a while…then move on! :-)

  597. Lori – why so angry luv?

  598. M & H,

    So glad you’re back. You are Molly Ivans reincarnated. Once again, you’re right on!!!Thanks for listening to Rush and watching Billo because I just can’t do it for more than a nanosecond.

    Don’t want Obama or the county to fail. As a nurse in the acute care setting, I’m very concerned about healthcare for all. It’s okay with me if they take a few more months to get it right.

    I cracked up this am when, John Boehner NOW wants it to be a bipartisan bill. He’s an idiot! What has Obama been asking the last 8 months but bipartisanship. Unbelievable!

  599. Christopher/HLT/or whomever you are pretending to be today, Thanks for the advice, my opinion is your an asshat.

    If it is your opinion my comments are ill tempered and ill mannered, MY opinion is your are a sexualy repressed Repug that enjoys taking their frustrations out by posting insults from behind the curtain.

    Hows that for opinions?

    No more lies, not now.. not this time, you can try your bullying intimidation tactics but they won’t work,,,, not this time…

  600. :-) :-) :-)

  601. Sounds like Lori needs a ride on that boat with Walter…

  602. Let’s not forget about the funny, people…it is all about the funny!!! :-)

  603. lori, just post your opinions if you have any and stop trying to argue other people out of theirs. They are *opinions,” get it?

    I’m sure that whatever your excuses are for being ill-tempered and ill-mannered, they are good ones, so relax. namaste.

  604. How do you do it, Helen? Priceless posts each and every time. You are amazing! And Margaret, you are a doll!

  605. jenni, Morely Safer interviewed General Giap in 1989, and I remember watching. I think I taped part of the show.

    General Giap said: “We paid a high price, but so did you…not only in lives and material. After Tet the Americans had to back down and come to the negotiating table, because the war was not only moving into dozens of cities and towns in South Vietnam, but also to the living rooms of Americans back home for some time. The most important result for the Tet offensive was it made you de-escalate the bombing and it brought you to the negotiation table. It was therefore, a victory… The war was fought on many fronts. At that time the most important one was American public opinion.” It is roughly what I wrote.

    About.com also dismisses comments in Giap’s book as an urban legend, but I based my conclusions on the interview I just quoted, not the book. About.com wrote that same interview is the only such statement directly attributal to General Giap.

    Other North Vietnamese credited our anti- war movement with their victory, during the seventies, but I don’t remember their names, so I didn’t mention them.

  606. James,Are you reading the bill personally?
    If so give the link to your source!!

    “I hope you can prove me wrong, but I am afraid you can’t. Please read through the bill and show specific sections which disprove what I have written. Read the actual bill, not what someone says about it.”

  607. THANK YOU for the morning laugh!!!
    I needed it!!! You two are the best!!!

  608. “James” I have already posted a debunking of your daily talking points but for some reason it is awaiting moderation.

    I will take you at your word and assume you think for yourself, but may I suggest you can make a little extra money in the psychic business world. It seems you can alwayssssssssssss for see just what the carnival barkers are about to regurgitate on their daily shows. There is money to be made “James” get to gettin! LOL

    No more lies… no more fear mongering… NOT this time…

  609. You two belong on television.

  610. Thanks for your concern Granny Smith. I have already been outside. It was 54 this morning with fog which sparkled in the sun.

    I am about to help my wife outside of our third floor attic to paint it. We have a rope just in case. Then, I plan to cut a section of tree which blew into our front yard.

    We also have weeds and grass to mow as soon as the ground dries.

    Tomorrow, I will run errands in a town fifteen miles from us, and I will get another chance to subvert aquaintances with my political beliefs if the subject comes up.

    On Friday, we plan to take a day trip to Ashfall in northeast Nebraska.

  611. James and others, please read below regarding General Giap’s words about Vietnam and American protestors. From an unbiased source.


  612. What a hoot! LOL! Bless your hearts!

    I’m from a Canadian family. They were all covered by the national health plan. Pre-natal care was consistent and good. Healthy babies were delivered and post-natal was also good. Health care for family member with terminal cancer was excellent. It was not discovered in time. It just snuck up without symptoms until it popped up and like a prairie fire went wild in no time and took a wonderful human being. There was nothing any health care plan could do about that. I know of Canadians who have come to this country for care and the plan covered them! I also know Americans who have made it a practice due to their finances to get their meds in Canada! Just how bad could the Canadian plan (according to the Republicans) be if so many Americans actually lease buses to go north for their meds! No doubt Rush Limpaw has his own “options” inasmuch as he isn’t “scairt” of prison.

    Keep on keeping on!

  613. Lori, I am James, not ‘James.’ It is my legal name. Rush, Fox or any number of news reporters or bloggers do not think for me. We don’t have cable, so I don’t listen to Fox news. I probably don’t listen to Rush as often as some of you do. I think for myself and borrow from many different ideologies.

    You are using an old debating trick to discredit an argument with non -sequitars. My focus in this post is on the health bill and nothing else.

    Your number one point that much of the press has a liberal bias is true. Its representatives have admitted it. And Democrats do have a history of tax and spend–just like the Republicans.

    The other two points are just plain dumb as they apply to me.

    I agree we must search for the truth, but as far as this bill is concerned, more of the truth seems to be on my side than yours.

    I hope you can prove me wrong, but I am afraid you can’t. Please read through the bill and show specific sections which disprove what I have written. Read the actual bill, not what someone says about it.

    Harken and Nelson have already confirmed the first two points I made. Reporters should have told us. Maybe it was press bias eh? I don’t yet know if the others from FlecksofLife.com are correct or not, but I intend to find out.

  614. LOL@GrannySmith

  615. James, Is this todays talking points???? I will look forward to hearing all the other nutso, fear mongering repugs verson of your post today….

    Lies will not work this time… Not this time… !

    The bill does NOT eliminate private insurance. (sprewed and debunked on an earlier post) http://www.factcheck.org/politics/more_health_care_scare.html

    The plan does NOT deny care to the elderly http://mediamatters.org/research/200907210046?lid=1052473&rid=31977020

    Obama did NOT say he didn’t know what was in the bill. http://mediamatters.org/items/200907210049?lid=1052475&rid=31977020

    This bill will NOT take the medical decesions out of the hands of your doctor. http://www.barackobama.com/ factcheck.org snopes.com

    (sorry if this is a repeat post)

  616. James, dear, may I suggest maybe getting out of doors for some fresh air…might do you some good, dear. There is a whole world out there just waiting for you. Go see what it has to offer.

  617. Ladies, as ever, well done and thank you! You’ll forgive me for spreading links to your blog all over the Internets. :)

    Keep up the fantastic work!


  618. Ladies,

    It’s been tooooo long between posts. Keep on telling it like it is. Thanks for the laughs.

  619. When Nixon was running for office, the Democrats invented a clever ad. The caption under his picture was “Would you buy a used car from this man?” I think we ought to spend as much time studying the health care bill as we would if we were looking for a used car.

    Health care is about 17% of our economy, and the Democrats are offering such a long, complicated bill even Obama has admitted he doesn’t know all of its contents. The bill will have a profound effect on all of us, and we ought to know what is in it.

    I already cited in the Palin thread that page 12 of the House version virtually eliminates private insurance which satisfies most people . I called Iowa Senator Tom Harkin’s office and expressed my concerns because what is written doesn’t jibe with statements that we will be allowed to choose between private carriers and the government. Harkin’s rep said I am right. That paragraph is in the bill.

    I also asked about a provision around page 400 or 430 that requires everyone over 65 to receive what would amount to end of life counseling every five years or more frequently if one is sick or in a nursing home. He said it is not mandatory, but after re reading the section, I cannot agree. It is apparently based on laws already in effect, and it is confusing. I think it can be interpreted in a number of ways. I called back and told the rep.

    Nebraska Democratic Senator Ben Nelson’s office said the 47 million uninsured estimate is wrong. If you break down the numbers, a large proportion maybe 10%, is illegal aliens. Others are young people between jobs or who choose not to buy insurance. Another group is people earning over $75,000 who chose to self insure or pay their own medical bills.

    Nelson’s rep estimated maybe 20 million people actually need immediate help. He is concerned that government estimates show the current bill to be at least as expensive as our current system.
    He also thinks Congress needs more time to study the bill.

    Someone at a web site called American Stew posted an article about a group called FlecksofLife.com. This group is reading the entire bill and quoting the details.

    For example, on page 335, lines 3-9, the government has authority to disqualify Medicare ADV plans, HMOs, etc, to force people into the government plan.

    On pages 336-9, the government will establish “”outcome based measures.” It means that the type of care is based upon a statistical consideration of how likely or unlikely a patient may be to gain long term benefit. Much of this is an inexact science which relies upon individual needs and circumstances which a patient and doctor can determine. The bill would put choices in government hands, and a government health care monopoly would leave no patient recourse in this country.

    If one is hospitalize the government would make it more difficult to re enter a hospital within a month or so of the first time.

    A reporter asked President Obama how the health care plan would affect her 105 year old relative who is living well after she found a doctor to install a pace maker when she was about 100. Obama said sometimes we reach a point when we ought not use heroic measures and the best recommendation might be pain killers. He might be right in some cases, but we are all individuals with different needs and potential outcomes.

    I don’t know if what FlecksofLife writes is accurate or not, but I intend to call other Congress people for their reactions.

    We need a health care bill, but maybe not this version.

  620. I think Helen has a little crush on Rush…

  621. You two ladies are so very funny. I love reading this blog. Thank you for making my day. Bless you!

  622. I missed you ladies and wondered where you had gotten to. But it was worth the wait.

    I always refer to Republicans as Repugs. It seems like and apt title for them.

  623. M%H, thank you for the much needed bit of comic relief. After what seems like an eternity of listening to “conservatives” yammering in my ears until they are about to bleed, it is welcome breath of fresh air to read your thread and take heart their are still some sane people out there.

    Rush’s latest rant about Mr. Cronkite doesn’t surprise me one bit. It is the new and improved “attack” plan being carried out by the Repubs. They are hitting hard on 4 messages.

    1. the press is now and has always been Librawl… therefore not to be trusted or believed. (except of course FOX) 2. Democrats/Obama are no long commies, we are now socialists and all have a master plan to derail the Good ole United States of America, and turn it into an atheist, Spanish speaking, homosexual ridden European-like country. 3. we don’t need no stinken health care,edumacation reform/stimulus/ tax reform, we just need the lazy bums to get off their ass and work so they can afford be responsible members of society and the “true WORKING American’s don’t have to carry all the load for those democratic suckapusses” . 4.the tried and true democrats=tax and spend.

    You will find all of Rush- Fox anchors – GOP water carrying “James’ /bloggertypes spewing a version of all or one of those points for the next 4 years. Some do it a little nicer than others..;-), but make no mistake it is all the same message.

    It won’t work… not now not this time we must remain vigilant and smack down the moles every time they rear their ugly lying heads! We can do that by repeating the TRUTH every opportunity we get.

    ImaginistaΔ, let us not take a page from the Repugs handbook and start insisting our party ALL march to the beat of the same drummer. The blue dog dems have a seat at the table, and while I agree with you and hope they come on board Eventually, I do not see anything wrong with them taking some time to debate and analyze this very complex healthcare issue. If we begin to insist as a party that you are only a “democrat” if you think a certain way we are no better, and are no better off politically, then the repugs. That type of thinking will lead to another decade of Bushies. Let’s keep an open mind listen to ALL our members and hopefully come up with a plan that works. I am willing to give them some time on this issue…..

  624. okay…maybe not as much as James’ comments…just saying….

  625. Jean, my root tip is still in place. I can feel the lump if I stick my finger down my throat. It often throbs and aches. Every six months, I help the dental assistant position the film because it is so far down my throat. She takes the x ray and the dentist checks it for change. The root tip still rests near my lingual space and I have seen the pictures with my own eyes. It has moved slightly toward the surface over the years, but it is still there. Our dentist told me it probably would have caused more trouble by now if it was going to. He said like the neurosurgeon commented about my back, going in after the root tip will entail much more risk than leaving it alone. If I can stand the pain…

    Major risks are infection or cancer. Two years after the surgery, I was on a foreign base and the commander said the x ray showed luminosity around the root tip. He feared infection and it was why he made a second attempt to get the root tip.

    The dentist I saw when I was in grad school told me I might be dead in five years because he feared infection or cancer would develop.

    Another thing about Vietnam era dentistry that lives on is the new tooth colored fillings which are beginning to be used in place of silver amalgam fillings. Something like them was used in country as a temporary filling for the duration. Some turned out to be as durable as permanent fillings. Our dentist didn’t know about those temporary fillings until I told him, and he thought it reasonable to assume a version of them evolved to the modern permanent tooth treatment.

    I know about phantom pain too. A finger on my right hand was ripped to the bone. I repositioned the flap as best I could, and though it was numb for a long time, it hurt. A doctor told me it was referred pain. The pain disappeared over time, and my finger was just numb. I kept rubbing the numb areas, and over the years, some of the feeling returned. A doctor told my I must have stimulated the nerves enough for that to have happened.

    Gerald, thanks for posting Walter Crocrite’s actual words. As I wrote, I wasn’t around to hear them. Walter was right about our faulty military strategy. We used measured responses. When the enemy escalated we matched them and vise versa. Without using overwhelming force and we were doomed to stalemate. Another faultly tactic was sending our soldiers in to liberate villages or real estate and after a bloody battle withdraw. Some lessons learned in Southeast Asia have been practiced in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Walter admitted that like many people without much familiarity with actual conditions, he bought the “light at the end of the tunnel” our government was selling. The fact that North Vietnam was abandoning its war of attrition was not an indication of allied failure as Cronkite implied but of our military success.

    People on the ground joked the light was a speeding locomotive. I agree with part of his statement that stalemate was our main hope because we were actually fighting a proxy war with the Soviet Block. Unlike the North Vietnamese, their resources matched ours. However, he was still wrong about the meaning of TET.

    TET was something like the Battle of the Bulge. That battle was a major surprise too. It was a great military push, which our side defeated at great cost to the enemy. To say TET meant we could not win was wrong. It demonstrated the opposite. The North admitted they were dispirited and feared the worst. Our bombing and the loss of TET were dark days for them. Then, they learned the power of the press to influence our will to fight.

    I believe that given the controversial nature of the war, the best we could have hoped for was what Croncrite alluded to , a Korean style stalemate. It would have been better for the Vietnamese people than what we got. The North Vietnamese were lying during the negotiations. They intended to invade after we left. The South Vietnamese assumed that and President Khy,(sp) as much as accused Nixon of treachery during the negotiations.

    The Omaha World Herald editorial page included a homage to Walter Cronkite, and the writer also stated Cronkite’s interpretation of the TET Offensive was wrong and exaggerated. Walter an imperfect human like the rest of us. In this case he was wrong about TET.

  626. Margaret, you are absolutely adorable in your words.

  627. Secret Talker, your photo is sort of freaking me out there a little bit….what the hell is that??

  628. Gazetna- I too am a fan of Alexander McCall Smith. I had the great chance to attend a lecture he gave around 2 years ago. Dressed in a kilt, he amused us from start to finish with stories.

  629. Well done Margaret and Helen! Thanks for expressing yourselves.

  630. Jsri, my experience with Rush’s television show was even weirder than yours, I caught the last few minutes once, and I thought, he was Stephen Colbert-ish. The next day I and my teenaged daughter, who I had tipped off about this new comedian, sat down to watch the entire show. Within a minute or two, we both realized satire wasn’t Rush’s bag, meanness and pure unadulterated crazy was his genre, we turned off the television and didn’t think about him again for years. But now that he is head of the Republican Party, it is hard to ignore him.

  631. YES!!!! Starting my day with a NEW Margaret and Helen Post!!! It doesn’t get better than that…

    I LOVE you two!!!!! :-) :-)

  632. Another classic!

    Rush who is an ass’s ass who couldn’t pay a woman to respect him… and I am sure he has tried.

    Tee hee! And, yes, I noticed his habit of pulling his shirt from his man-boobs. You could be right: his sweatiness makes the polyester cling so very unattractively. And El Rushbo certainly yearns to be attractive.

    He has what? three ex-wives? Same as Newty. Those paragons of support for the sanctity of marriage. Blech!

  633. Sally, I finished Herodotus last night so I’m off tomorrow to Borders to pick up Alexander McCall Smiths’ “The

  634. Margaret!!!!! OMG, you lusty young lass. hahaha! You’re a trip!

    Helen, head on, as always. I love you both, ladies. I mean it. And that’s the way it is.

  635. Hi gang, jsri and Sistah Sally,

    jsri, your piece about Rush is hilarious!!!! You do have a flair. I’m almost (but not quite) sorry I never saw that miserable show.

    I’m amending my earlier piece. I watched the Leherer report this evening. It is F-22 fighter airplanes, not F-16′s as I wrote. Those babies cost 360 (that’s THREE-HUNDRED-SIXTY MILLION DOLLARS) – - -EACH!!!! Obama, Gates and the Pentagon agreed to cancel the order for something like 42 of ‘em. You do the math. That alone would buy a whole lot of Health Care.

    Chamblis of Georgia had a hissifit. Figures.

    Sally, I finished Herodotus last night so I’m off tomorrow to Borders to pick up Alexander McCall Smiths’ “The Sunday Philosopher’s Club”, on your recommendation. I’ll let you know what I think of it.



    Auntie Jean

  636. Welcome back, ladies! You were sorely missed.

    Walter Cronkite was one of a chosen few on my “short list” with whom I wanted to spend a day — just to be able to listen to his stories, hear what he thought, learn from him. I knew, of course, I’d never in a million years be given that opportunity, but I could dream, couldn’t I?

    Showing my age now, but my first recollection of the evening news came from Huntley & Brinkley. After them, and for many years thereafter, I learned of the day’s news from Mr. Cronkite.

    The world is less knowledgeable without him.

  637. Rush had a TV show?!? Glad I missed it. Maybe that is why his ego is so large.

    Walter Cronkite did not seem to have such an ego that he would be/say/do ridiculous mean spirited opinion and lay them out as fact.

    I agree with someone who posted earlier that the more Rush talks, the better. If he keeps up his dumb hateful rants, he loses more of his base. And heaven help those lemmings of his that still live to listen to him.

    Whirled Peas, saw a headline on the Huffington Post website about Obama taking on the “Military Industrial Complex” that DW Eisenhower warned us in the movie link at your site, “Why We Fight”. Thought of you immediately.

    Aloha Gang!

  638. How many of you remember Rush’s TV show during the early 1990’s? It was a colossal dud. After five minutes of watching, your hemorrhoids would begin acting up and you’d have to scoot off for an application of Preparation H to relieve the pain.

    But it was his audience of dittoheads that actually made the show entertaining. Every time the beached whale up front (El Rushbo) started pontificating, the audience would rise up en masse like a pod of seals at the local aquarium and burst into applause, flapping their flippers in unison and croaking and slobbering their approval.

    The males in the audience, in their polyester suits and wide ties, looked like back country Barney Goobers out for their first excursion into the big city The women had their ample rolls of charm hidden beneath their sack dresses while their heads and faces featured bouffant hairdos and spatula applied layers of Tammy Faye Bakker makeup.

    Actually, the show raised hell with my sleep because the only time slot for it was 1am and I couldn’t tear myself away because it was so outrageous. Not funny, just outrageous.

  639. Thank you Gerold!

  640. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

    I bet a bunch of those 2 million + hits are because we’ve all been checking back time and time again to see if there’s a new post (and then sticking around to read all the new comments and posting a few of our own)!

    Joyce reminded us about “You Are There.” Oh my goodness. Friday nights in the pre-TV-at-our-house days: my sister and I would go to our neighbors’ house, knock on the door, ask “can we come in and watch TV?” Mrs. Corey would say “take off your shoes,” we would, and then go into the living room to join the rest of the Coreys in front of the TV. “You Are There,” “Life of Riley,” “I Remember Mama,” and one other show I can’t think of at the moment. Then we’d say “thank you” and go home.

  641. I am amazed that people continue to support someone who committed fraud to obtain prescription drugs. That was proven. Did he spend a day in jail for it? Of course not.

    He would have made a good carnival barker.

  642. Hey, Skyewriter’s back! (*waving*) Nice to see you. :)

  643. Hi gang and James,

    During Margaret’s and Helen’s hiatus, I didn’t have time to rebutt, if you will, your horror story, James, of your dental experience in the Air Force. You have told it several times. I don’t doubt for one minute that you possibly had a horrific experience in the hands of a military dentist.

    However, that was during the Vietnam War, a LONG TIME AGO, I presume sometime in the 60’s. Dentistry has come a long, long ways since then. (Time was when the village barber was the dentist and the only anesthetic was whiskey!!!)

    There are undoubtedly much younger people here on this blog who have all their teeth and no experience with dentists except for routine cleanings and a few fillings. For those who might buy into your side of the story, here’s mine. At age 79, I am down to only 14 of my original teeth with two bridges. I can honestly say I have NEVER experienced ANY pain with extractions, except for the momentary prick of the anesthetic needle. This included two working and two impacted wisdom teeth when I was in my 40’s. Not necessarily fun, but I always walked outta there under my own steam and went shopping. Honestly, all YOU have to DO for a dental appointment is show up and open your mouth.

    All of my extractions were performed by an oral surgeon. He, and my regular dentist both have the new state-of-the-art machines that move around the head and take pictures in a circular way of the entire jaw, front and back.

    Now, it is very common practice when extracting wisdom teeth or molars to break up the tooth and take it out in pieces. (The old string on the doorknob technique does not work!) Also it is very common for pieces of the tooth to remain in the socket.

    You must remember that teeth are LIVING tissue. When any part of a tooth is cut off from it’s blood supply, it dies and becomes a foreign object. The body doesn’t like to have foreign objects in it so it gets busy getting rid of it. Several days after a number of different extractions, I have spit out a tooth fragment or two, often when I was eating or brushing my remaining teeth! It is also probably that if the fragment doesn’t work it’s way out during the healing process, over time, it dissolves.

    So James, I seriously doubt if it is possible for your root tip to still be in your jaw after all these years and years and years.

    There is such a thing as Phantom Pain that occurs when a limb is amputated. The patient feels pain or even itching in say, a fingertip, even if the arm has been amputated. There are still connections in the brain that ‘remember’ sensations from that fingertip, (nerve). Usually, over time, when there is no response from the fingertip, that connection fades. If the MEMORY of the trauma is CONTINUALLY reinforced, however, the brain connection can remain longer.

    Folks, dentistry these days is a highly specialized field of medicine. Screw-ups are very rare in the hands of competent, well-trained dentists or oral surgeons. There is nothing to fear from a trip to the dentist. Well, maybe the bill.

    Which brings me to the point of this lengthy comment. The bro-ha-ha continues over Health Care. Medical personnel spend YEARS in training, learning their skills that benefit us all. They are entitled to be well compensated more than Insurance Executives. And the vast health care related industry provides JOBS, JOBS, JOBS! These are far more beneficial to society than war machines, like F-16’s, that haven’t been used since the air dog-fight days of WWI and WWII; way, way, way behind the times and outdated.

    So let’s get on it, for heaven’s sake! and pass Health Care legislation. Screw the Insurance, Pharmaceutical and Republican ‘stall and scare’ tactics. The American PEOPLE need and deserve adequate Health Care.



  644. Double the pleasure, Margaret and Helen! What a post! I can’t stop laughing. Sure will miss Mr. Cronkite, he was a classy man. Nothing more to add on the rush. He does suscribe to the lowest common denominator. He feeds off of ignorance, what should we expect?

    Anybody who thinks problems that took years to create should be resolved in 6 months is good for the loony house, that is my humble opinion. Obama should be given a chance, that is all.

  645. Glad to see you gals posting again!xoxox

    ‘I guess the Americans with Disabilities Act needs to be revisited again to include “Republican” as a form of mental impairment’


    ‘And I will gladly give up my mobility impaired classification and the great parking space that goes with it to make room for them.’

    we call it ‘ROCK STAR PARKING’ dear ;)

    ps rush wishes he could have an ounce of the class Cronkite was

  646. Dear M&H, It’s been a while since I visited and am so glad I dropped by today.

    You continue to put just the right words on situations!

  647. Sickies like Rush Limpdick, who needs viagra to get it up are dime a dozen in the repuklican party. Makes me wonder what those who have sex with them take to get into the mood to have sex with them – would it be oxycodin? That way they could explain that they didn’t know what they were doing or with who.
    Limpdick like most repuklicans love playing the patriotic game, yet have not served one day in the military for one reason or another. Probably a good thing since the only thing Lurch Cheney could shoot was his friends face.
    Cronkite was a great newsman and trustworthy, something that Limpdick wouldn’t know anything about. You don’t suppose they call him Rush because sexually he is done before he starts do you?
    Keep up with your great posts, they are greatly needed.

  648. Limbaugh would not even make a medium sized pimple of Cronkite’s ass.

    Great Post Ladies!

  649. Here is what he did say:

    “We have been too often disappointed by the optimism of the American leaders, both in Vietnam and Washington, to have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds. They may be right, that Hanoi’s winter-spring offensive has been forced by the Communist realization that they could not win the longer war of attrition, and that the Communists hope that any success in the offensive will improve their position for eventual negotiations. It would improve their position, and it would also require our realization, that we should have had all along, that any negotiations must be that — negotiations, not the dictation of peace terms. For it seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate. This summer’s almost certain standoff will either end in real give-and-take negotiations or terrible escalation; and for every means we have to escalate, the enemy can match us, and that applies to invasion of the North, the use of nuclear weapons, or the mere commitment of one hundred, or two hundred, or three hundred thousand more American troops to the battle. And with each escalation, the world comes closer to the brink of cosmic disaster.

    To say that we are closer to victory today is to believe, in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past. To suggest we are on the edge of defeat is to yield to unreasonable pessimism. To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion. On the off chance that military and political analysts are right, in the next few months we must test the enemy’s intentions, in case this is indeed his last big gasp before negotiations. But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could.”

  650. James. What Cronkite said was that the Government and US Military had told the American people that the North was no longer capable of such a large scale offensive. When that proved to be false Cronkite said that from his proint of view this was a war that couldn’t be won. The North was not going away and they certainly weren’t as wounded as we were being told. He was right…

  651. Hi Greytdog,

    (Spelled you right this time.) Glad your critters are gone. I can relate.

    When we lived in SoCal up in the San Gabriel foothills we had rattlers, little six inch babies and all. They are all deadly and scary to me!!! My husband and sons usually dispatched them with a shovel after our cat, ‘Minou’ alerted us to them.

    But once I was alone and scared when I saw one. I called our equivalent of your Jake, the critter man. Turned out it was a lizard about a foot long hiding in the grass. I couldn’t see his legs for the grass. Silly woman! The guy gave me his standard lecture on how beneficial the lizards were, ate insects, etc., blah, blah, blah.

    I don’t care. If it’s creep or crawly, I don’t like them and don’t want them around. It was them or me!

    We moved.

    (Nine years later to Pensylvania.)

    Anyway, take heart. Winter is coming and they will hibernate.


    Auntie Jean

  652. Speaking of snakes…

    If Rush and Walter were having a contest to see who could degrade the most humans in their broadcast lifetime, Rush would win hands down. He hasn’t stumbled on the earth near as long as Walter stood on it, yet he could probably quit now and still be ahead. I bet he could get in a record book for the most humans verbally abased through the airwaves. Or at least his judgments reach the most ears. But remember…he is just an entertainer. He certainly makes enough money to live comfortably from here on out. I hope he loves his earthly rewards.

  653. Always a double pleasure when we hear from both of you, Margaret and Helen, we feel like we get a peek into your remarkable relationship. I, for one, feel all warm and fuzzy, and just know that you get it, and still maintain a sense of humor. James take thy sick psyche to a doctor, gosh darn you’re a piece of work, the kind of person my mother told me to never greet with “how are you?” because “they’ll tell you.” Quit fishing for sympathy and get some professional help.

  654. Skyewriter!!!!!

    Auntie Jean, pygmy rattlers have been removed from the patio planter. There was a nest indeed with about a dozen all told. Summertime in FL is fun, n’est ce pas?

  655. Hi Gretdog,

    Snakes and a python in your yard????? Gawd!!!!!


    Auntie Jean

  656. [...] Rush Limbaugh is Bigger than Walter Cronkite  Margaret.  Forgive me honey for I have sinned…  I realize now that President Obama is not perfect.  I was [...] [...]

  657. “When George Bush was President I didn’t want him to fail.”

    On the contrary, you were praying for him to stop failing, amiright?

  658. Helen, if you and Margaret listen to Rush just for us, thank you.

    He makes me want to rip out my ears and shove them in the holes that are left.

  659. Rush Limbaugh is a mentally ill drug addict.

  660. Nice to see you after a dry spell, ladies! Always a pleasure reading your take on the events of the day.

    I wonder if it’s The Universe telling me something…. the AM part of my car radio broke. I can’t receive AM channels, thus, no Rush for me.
    (If only I knew HOW this happened, I’d patent it and sell it black market-style to sic on every pickup truck south of the Mason-Dixon line. That would surely put a dent in the number of dittohead listeners.)


  661. Helen,
    Your wit and wisdom amuse me and evoke a resounding “Yes!”

    Your addition to this post did all of the above and made me swallow to keep back the tears.


  662. It was great to get notice of a new post from the two of you.

    Rush can only rage against a manufactured opinion, and try to pat himself on the back for his neat little rhetorical trick, while the spittle piles up in the stubs of greasy gray hair that outline his oh-so-porcine massive mouth.

    I love Cronkite for having ushered in the era of leftist-pinko-commie-fag-progressive journalism…
    and if he managed to float your boat, well, more power to him!

  663. Margaret & Helen. You two are an inspiration to me. It is NEVER too late to speak your truth. You make me proud to be a Senior. Aging ain’t for sissies, but it does bring out the best in some people. God bless you both!

  664. Incredible Blog!

  665. Great article…as usual. Thank you.

  666. Just a wee bit off topic, but oh my folks:

    Ethics investigator finds probable cause Palin is receiving improper gifts through legal fund. http://bit.ly/uzAtr

  667. You two crack my asshat up like nobody can!!!!!

  668. I’m glad you two are OK, I was worried that you went so long between postings.

    It amazes me the hypocrisy of the right and the delusional world they live in.
    They don’t want gay marriage, but they have the highest divorce rate in the country.
    They don’t want health care, but you are right, when will Limbaugh, Hannity etc and all the republican senators etc ever worry about health insurance. That want to deny us?

    They yelled and called us traitor about Bush, but do the same about Obama and see no hypocrisy.
    They don’t want abortions, but Palin talked about her and Bristol’s “choices”.
    They talk about family values, but their Senators have affairs and then never resign because they find “God” again.
    They despise evolution and science, but they want to drill for oil that takes millions of years to form, not 6,000.
    And then they support Sarah Palin a serial quitter and Twitterer.
    Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but they want to put her in the oval office because……
    Bush worked out so well????

    And just because I am a smug, liberal Democrat,
    Rush Limbaugh is a treasonous SOB!!!

  669. Sooo good to see ya….Rush Limpdick is nothing but a horses ^ss…Loved your take on Bushy….Still giggling here…Best one i heard all week…Walter personified what a real journalist is all about…There are no more true journalists out there…Keep upthe good fight ladies…I love you two gals….

  670. @ suburbancorrespondent: As much as it pains me to say it, the biggest obstacle to fixing the health care mess right now are about a half dozen so-called Democrats who are using stall tactics and pretending fiscal concern in order to trip this whole thing up. And why? Follow the money – they are all in the Health Care Mafia’s pocket. If we could just get them to vote this on party lines, Dems would have the numbers. Therefore the “blue-dogs” are a bigger roadblock than the asshat Repubs. At least we expect them to be the party of no.

  671. Good Post!

  672. For Rush to say Cronkite caused the deaths of our troops is a stretch. Paul Harvey also said we should withdraw from Vietnam. If Walter caused people to die, so did Paul.

    I liked Walter Cronkite, but I didn’t hear his “we must get out of Vietnam speech”. I was in the service out of the United States at the time. I’m splitting hairs, but since it was “my” war, it is important to me. My understanding of his change of mind was his belief we had lost militarily after the TET Offensive, and the best we could hope for was a stalemate.

    Cronkite may have been right to say what he did, but he was wrong about TET. The VC/NVA suffered unexpectedly high casualties from which it took years to recover. The Viet Cong was decimated, and their loss required more North Vietnamese troops to fill the void. South Vietnamese did not rise up in revolt as the North expected.

    The offensive cost the North at least 45,000 casualties, and by military standards was a terrible defeat. However, through ignorance or the panic caused by Viet Cong troops invading and being repulsed from our embassy our press portrayed TET as an allied loss.

    General Bruce Palmer said the enemy took the battle to the Caravelle Hotel where reporters often stayed, so from the stand point of the average reporter the war was over and unwinable.

    General Giap, commander of the NVA forces told Morley Safer in a 1989 interview that though both sides suffered serious loses, the war was being fought in America’s living rooms. In that respect, TET was a psychological, not military victory. To say otherwise dishonors the brave troops who defeated the attack.

    One can argue we never should have sent troops to South East Asia, but we did, and we created consequences. We later bugged out and abandoned people who had supported and fought beside our troops.

    We lied to them as they stood outside our embassy waiting for rescue which never came.

    After our troops left, there was nothing to stop Cambodians and Vietnamese from settling old grudges. Cambodians invaded border towns and killed over 3,000 villagers. The raiders shot them, slit their throats or beat them to death with sticks. Babies were flung into the air and pierced with bayonets. Women were raped and left to die with stakes planted in them.

    North Vietnamese put southerners into re education camps from which many didn’t return. They and their families were harrassed and denied good job opportunities. The boat people testify to their desperation.

    Our sudden abandonment of South Vietnam made it happen. If we were going to leave, we should have done it in a more orderly fashion with safe guards for people who’s trust we betrayed.

    It was one of the few times I was ashamed to be an American.

  673. Helen–spot on! Structuring reality into false dichtomies is die-hard Republican bread-and-butter tactics, and I’m really tired of it too.

    And to attack Walter Cronkite on his merit as a journalist and his contribution to journalism?! That’s just gonzo crazy.

    Margaret–You can write my euphamisms any day.

  674. Oh, THANK YOU!
    Helen, spot on; I can’t even pick a favorite paragraph! I’m so tired of the Obama is Messiah meme that the Repubs insist we believe. Typical, they kept standards so low for Bush so they could claim sucess, but now that we have a Dem, the standards are ridiculous such that no one could live up to them.
    Margaret, you say so much in so few words ;)

    Grandma Katie, we love to read your comments, regardless of spelling/typos, but personally, I’m a big fan of http://www.dictionary.com to check myself when I’m unsure, as I just did with “ridiculous” :D

  675. I think that comment was totally off-topic, by the way. Sorry! I’m just so annoyed right now!

  676. I would so like the people without health insurance to be in the Senate and the House right now – they understand the urgency, unlike the cossetted Republican Senators who want to slow things down. I don’t think any of them have had to watch a child cry with a toothache that they couldn’t afford to have looked at by a professional. I don’t think any of them have had their insurance cancelled because they were “risked out.” Of course not – they have what I have – government sponsored PRIVATE health insurance. Yes! Federal employees pick from any number of PRIVATE companies to provide them with a health insurance plan. That’s all Obama wants for the rest of you. What’s wrong with that?

  677. It is stunning that Republicans aren’t down-right embarrassed by Rush-the-Clown. Then again, they aren’t embarrassed by Sarah Palin (although to their credit, some where). Then AGAIN, they’re also are not embarrassed by Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly….well there you have it: Sadly, even stupid can vote.

  678. You know why Mr. Bush hides in Cheney’s ass? Because Cheney’s has the MAP on his forehead! I know! I know he’s my Godfather! LMAO Of course that’s a lie. But you can visualize the Russian right?

  679. Dear Margaret and Helen,

    So glad you are both back in your usual rare form. I agree with everything you wrote.

    Yes, Walter Cronkite was unique. He had integrity, eloquence and heart. He will be sorely missed as there are so few now to take his place in journalism.

    Thank you for your tribute to him.



  680. I love you two women!!

  681. How do you do it, ladies? How do you continue to write the most insightful and humorous posts on the net? No one does it better except, perhaps the lovely and talented deposed Miss USA runner-up Carrie Prejean, who just sold her book, “Still Standing.” Calm down, it’s not out yet! We all need something to look forward to. And, just because she doesn’t believe in gay marriage doesn’t mean she’s a bad person. I’m sure she’s got plenty of other insightful tidbits to share on issues such as healthcare and tax reform or, better yet, healthcare AND tax reform. For example: No tax money should be spent on abortions. All unwanted children should be allowed to burst forth into the world so their mothers and their boyfriends can abuse and/or ignore them and be put on welfare. That’s a much more economical use of our tax dollars, don’t you think?

    From a literary standpoint, she and the lovely and ever-informed former Governor of Alaska who, not only can see Russia from her house, but has her own blockbuster book coming down the pike, would be a great book-tour act. Dumb and Dumber for the literary world.

    Being a member of that audience would, in my mind, be the absolute description of hell. The only thing worse, would be if Rush Fat-Ass Limbaugh and Annie Long-Neck Coulter made babies together. That new life form would surely destroy the world.

  682. I cannot for the life of me figure out why the majority of the republican congress people hope President Obama fails in everything he is trying to accomplish for the American people. Who are these people working for??? Don’t they take an oath to serve their constituents? If they did, things would get done and they could be proud of themselves. How do they really feel now, I can’t imagine that is very good.

  683. As always, YOU GO GIRLS!

  684. Great Funny Post!
    I’m new here…Love the Blog!!
    By the way…who won the scooter race? :-)

  685. So fine! I couldn’t agree more.

    Rush’s audience is old enough that his ratings drop measurably as they die off, and he’s not attracting enough young people to make up the difference. So what made him think it would be a good idea to piss off a sizeable portion of the rest? This is the same generation that knew the value of Walter Cronkite, and they’re not going to be happy about this. Poor Rush – bugger’s his own worst enemy.

    Not that I’m too sorry for him – he’s never been qualified to lick Cronkite’s shoes. I’d say ‘fit’, but you just know he’d never be able to get down there. Once down, no way he’s getting back up again.

    I wouldn’t have thrown Walter out of bed either. And you’d actually be able to talk to him after. Yum.

    Haven’t heard anything recent about the Bush girls. Do tell…….

  686. Cronkite spoke out against the conventional wisdom of the unskeptical press only twice.

    Granted it was twice more than anyone else of his generation or of any generation since.

    But he was for the majority of his career a faithful and reliable water-carrier for the Corporate State.

  687. Thanks Helen and Margaret for keeping up with Rushbo’s nonsense. I cannot stand the sound of his voice. It bugs me almost as much as having to listen to Buttercup. And yes, I have often wondered why he cannot wear bigger shirts.

    Limbaugh has sunk even lower than I thought possible with stupid remarks on Walter Cronkite and Vietnam. I keep hoping that one day he will just spontaneous com bust – on air preferably!

  688. Another great post ladies, great to hear from both of you! Walter Cronkite was indeed a responsible, respected newsman. I’m afraid with the 24/7 news cycle of today, we’ll never see the likes of him again. Pity.

  689. [...] 21, 2009 · Leave a Comment Margaret and Helen are on the mark once [...]

  690. [...] 21, 2009 · Leave a Comment Margaret and Helen are on the mark once [...]

  691. Another wickedly wonderful post. The blogosphere is brighter for your contributions, ladies. Thank you!

  692. GREAT posts Margaret and Helen! Boat floating and Bush in a colon, you both are like gravy on potatoes!

    Obama isn’t the Messiah, but he sure has a lot of Lucifers trying to pull him down.

    On his health care reform, one Asshat senator wants him to fail – wants health care to be Obama’s Waterloo. Like having health care is not a need, but more a battle. Asshat.

    So I went to this site and signed the petition for health care reform:


    We are a small business family, and our health care premiums for employees have gone from $119/month for singles to $370/month in just a few years. We pay over $1200/month for family coverage. For the price increase, we have less coverage and more red tape.

    Obama is definitely not perfect, he just seems like it compared to Bush.

    Thank you Helen for being the “new” voice we all listen to, here and now. You float my boat!

  693. Thanks for putting things in perspective once again and making me smile.

  694. OMG!!
    So funny!!!

  695. I’m half the age of you, Margaret & Helen, and couldn’t agree more that Cronkite was a sexy man, even when many decades older than I am. His intellect and honesty and those eye crinkles – swoon!

    Thanks for the great post, as always. I hope it’s not too much pressure on you to always have to hit a home run, but week by week you surely accomplish that! We’d love you even if all you had to talk about was the weather. I mean it! Fortunately (or not) it appears you will never, ever un out of material.

    Off topic – what was with that gal who was so thankful that you could unsubcribe from comments here? Why’d she subscribe in the first place? Duh…. attention seeker I guess.

  696. Rush blames Cronkite for Vietnam? really? omg, too funny!

    Cronkite went to Vietnam, came back and reported what he learned and Johnson said, “If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost the country.”

    and he was right.

    thanks for this, sweeties. I look forward to your posts.

  697. Hi Gals,
    WOW another excellent explanation of the world as we see it

    ….. 8 years up dickies ass, what a “shitty” homestead…..

    …it wasn’t the nut and the tree, it was the apple, that didn’t fall far from the HORSE!

  698. Well done again ladies. I was getting worried as I kept checking in for a new post. Glad you’re back.

    As for healthcare, I would ask that everyone email/call their elected representatives and tell them your feelings about healthcare. They hear from the insurance/pharm lobbyists every day — we need to keep on them to get this done NOW. As Shash said, it may not be perfect, but we need to start somewhere and not let the ins/pharm companies hijack this country.

  699. Yesterday, Limbaugh started in with the “birth certificate” nonsense. The man panders to the most ignorant, malleable, unbalanced parts of society.

    He, Hannity, Levin, Coulter, Savage, and that looney tune Beck–all people who are willing to say absolutely anything without regard to truthfulness so long as they make a buck.

  700. You call it as you see it and I am glad. Your words are so true.

  701. Thank you for everything you write. I never cease to get a smile on my face when I read this blog…

  702. I didn’t vote for Obama, but I sure hope for this administration to succeed. (No, I didn’t vote for McCain either. Americans can still do write in votes. Too many of us forget that.)

  703. Sadly, CBS forced Cronkite to retire when he turned 65. I was just thirteen at the time, and growing up in a household without a television. I had neither seen nor heard Walter Cronkite until the few clips I’ve seen over the past few days. However, it is more than obvious he was a man of immense character and integrity. May journalists today aspire to follow his lead!

  704. Just was sent a link to this site and will mark it as a favorite. Hail to Margaret and Helen for telling it like it is. Walter Cronkite also helped get the Discovery Channel going. And I’m old enough to remember his “You Are There” series, which made history live. What as Lumgagh offered this country but negative, nasty words?

  705. A toast to Margaret & Helen…as relevant and thought-provoking as always!

    Limbaugh is a bitter, angry, bullying buffoon. By hoping that Mr. Obama fails, he and his cronies are hoping our economy languishes in a deep recession for the next four years, hoping for American industries to fail, and hoping for our manufacturing base to be depleted. They are hoping more Americans lose their jobs and their homes. They are hoping our financial system collapses, and the retirement security of an entire generation is wiped out. They are hoping that terrorists will once again feel free to attack us on our own soil without fear of reprisal.

    In 8 years, the Republicans did not propose any solutions to our most dire issues, nor did they work to secure a safe and prosperous future for ourselves and for our children — they want their successors to fail simply so they don’t look worse for their total lack of success.

    As painful as it may be for some to see Obama succeed, we cannot afford for him to fail. We are at a moment in our nation’s history when failure is simply not an option.

  706. “I’m not giving Obama a free pass, I’m giving him a chance.” Here, here!!

    As a 44 yr old who was too young to understand about the Vietnam War as it occured, (but felt, nevertheless, that it was my duty to read up all I could on it now that I was an adult)– it never fails to floor me that there is still no concensus amongst all Americans that it was a Huge Mistake. Seriously, there are still Americans who think if we had just bombed some more, and stayed longer, we would have “won”. And the really scary part? I think some of those people who think this just occupied the WH for the last 8 yrs, and one of them tried to run for VP in 2008. The rest of them apparently occupy apartments on “C” Street in DC. I’m thinkin’ God is not amused at these folks.

    Thanks you two for another superb post. You two are so funny!

  707. Oh this is classic! Helen, you just keep raising your own bar and then exceeding it. Not only have you managed to once again portray Jabba the Limbaugh as the asshat that he is, this is a wonderful tribute to Uncle Walter. His is a lost art indeed; hopefully his style of journalism will someday make a comeback.

    We all missed you terribly – it is always a cause for celebration to find a new post! Like a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!

  708. I’m so glad you keep up with the antics of that pig Rush so that we don’t have to. It makes my stomach turn just thinking of him.

  709. Wow! I’m a newly minted Margaret and Helen fan after a friend posted a link to this site on Facebook. You go, girls! You’re on my blogroll now as a must read.

  710. I don’t know why, but I thought Rush would have the sense to keep his mouth shut about Cronkite. Naturally, the gasbag can’t contain himself. Nice job, Rush. Your own commentary on Cronkite makes you look even worse in comparison with him.

    As for you, Helen and Margaret, bravo! I laughed at so many lines in this post that I can’t possibly pick a favorite.

    Glad you’re back. We missed you!

  711. Walter Cronkite was born in Kenya!

  712. Well said… again! You always nail it perfectly, and that’s what I love about you girls.

    I grew up watching Cronkite as well, and he was a true journalist. They broke the mold.

    As for Limblah… he’s an idiot, but I do admit that sometimes when I need to blow off steam I’ll turn on the radio, and take out my frustrations by yelling at the fat, old drug addict. Very good for my blood pressure and much better than yelling at the dogs.

    Thanks again for your unique wisdom Margaret & Helen. <3

  713. funny, funny, FUNNY!!!!!

  714. Grandma Katie…no need to correct…we all understand what you are typing and will ask if we don’t…glad to see you back!! :-)

  715. I get so angry when the Right brags about wanting Obama to fail. Don’t they understand that if he fails, we ALL fail? It’s so childish and selfish to want your country to stumble just to prove a point.

  716. Oops my typing and spelling is not doing so well this AM.
    I hope the correct spelling is arrogant. No dictionary h andy.

  717. My god you two are a HOOT!
    Thanks for my morning laugh!!

  718. Margaret and Helen – wellllcome back!!
    we were getting very worried about you!! Starting off the day with y our posts makes a great way to get my brain stirred up. Please don’t leave us for so long again.
    How can Rush be so arrigant that he can’t realize what a national treasure Cronkiite was?
    and still is. Or is he just jealous that he doesn’t get the wonderful praise that Cronkite does?

  719. Hilarious!!!!!!!

  720. Walter Cronkite practiced excellent journalism. Today, someone like him would probably be laughed out the door because of his impartiality and how seriously he took his job.

    I don’t even know how people can listen to Limbaugh. He’s twisted and deluded and he deludes his audience as well. Helen, I’m glad someone can listen long enough to tell me what he’s up to because I can’t. And I’ve tried.

    I’m willing to give Obama a chance. He wasn’t my first choice but I voted for him in the end. I would like us to give his healthcare plan a chance. It’s not perfect, but it IS a step in the right direction.

    Keep writing Helen and Margaret. It’s nice to see someone talking sense.

  721. Very funny.

    Rush has a following. Not sure why except that everyone needs and outlet and he is a good outlet for a bunch of white men looking for an excuse to explain their failures in life.

    Heard about the Bush twins? Seems the nut didn’t fall far from the tree?

  722. You ladies just get better and better. The idea of Bush living in Cheney’s ass for 8 years has me on the floor laughing. Don’t waste your time on Rush. He is the modern day equivilent of the KKK.

  723. My mother would have said “Walter can put his shoes under my bed anytime”. I grew up in the days when there wasn’t cable yet and only the major networks. Every single night, during all those years, the small TV was turned to Uncle Walter. His voice of security was how we knew and understood our world. I thank him for those decades.

  724. OMG. Bush crawled up Cheney’s ass and lived there for 8 years!!!! LOL

  725. Hear, Hear! Rush is such a tool! You gals rock! They don’t make them like Walter Cronkite anymore. He will be greatly missed.

  726. Have you noticed that when they show clips of Limbaugh he always pulls out on the front of his shirt? I think his fat,sweaty body makes his shirts cling to him.

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