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Posted by: Helen Philpot | June 30, 2009

The Appreciation or Depreciation of Michael Jackson

Good Lord Margaret.   I had no idea Michael Jackson was this popular.   I realize now, of course, that it was as plain as the nose on my face…  OK.  Bad joke.  But even if you were hiking on the Appalachian Trail this non-Father’s Day weekend, it was almost impossible to avoid the news and entertainment coverage of Michael Jackson’s death.    I wasn’t a fan, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t respect his talent…  even if I didn’t understand it – all that jumping around like he had ants in his pants.  

But I have to say, after watching all these reports,  his life seemed out of control even while he was in control of it and it seems to still be out of control now that he is no longer living.  And that Joe Jackson is a real piece of work.  He seems to be depreciating an asset rather than mourning a son.  (It’s an accounting term, Dear.  Ask Howard to explain it to you.) 

I remember when this happened to Elvis and that sweet Marilyn Monroe.   At some point Michael Jackson stopped being a human being and instead became a widget.  And now it seems we are giving three more kids to the couple who manufactured the Jackson widgets.  Life goes on…  Will we ever learn?

Watching all this mad-dash coverage, it occurs to me that if you tore him down in life then it’s a tad bit hypocritical for you to now prop him up in death.  Did I mention Joe Jackson was a piece of work?  But we seem to be evolving into a nation of hypocrites.  And as someone who believes evolution should be taught in school, I am more than a little worried about this evolutionary cycle. 

If it were up to me, I would establish a few rules right about now regarding hypocrisy.  Something along the lines of:

  • If you’re Michael Jackson’s father now is not the time to be enjoying the limelight. 
  • You can’t  be Pro-Life and Pro-War at the same time.  If one of these dispositions has to be in your cadre, then pick one and  live with the consequences.
  • You can’t deny the right to marry to some and then cheat on your spouse.   The right to happily marry belongs to all no mater how unhappy it makes you.
  • You can’t tolerate the atrocities of one President for eight years and then assign the consequences to one who follows.  From this day forward everything was Reagan’s fault.
  • The Christian Right should be forced to spend a week in Iran.  May the best radicals win.
  • The Real Housewives should actually be housewives.

About that last one.  I mean it.  Really.

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  4. [...] I judged him on his appearance and preyed on his eccentricities. Like a bully in the school yard, I built myself up by tearing him down. Now the compensation for my actions is a guilty [...]

  5. lol, I love your blog. But C’mon, you don’t have atleast ONE favorite Michael song? Tell the truth…lol.

  6. I have been away from the computer for quite a while due to health issues but I wanted to get my 2 cents worth in here….

    Everyone is going to have their own interpretations of the wierd shit that MJ did… thats fine… I don’t care! He was in California, I am here…. I have enough wierd shit here to deal with! I do not have the time, will, nor the energy to even care about MJ’s personal life!

    I want to hear the music and see the videos. I grew up with all that music! I hear Billie Jean and it reminds me of some of the best times of my life jamskating with this older guy at the rink named Willie. I hear Beat It and I think of Americas Best Dance Crew. I hear Will You Be There and I think about Free Willy and some of the similarities between the character and my childhood. I could go on about how MJ’s music reminds me of significant positive times in my life but I think you all get the point!

    Let MJ rest in peace… Write a book after the autopsy is done, I will read it after the media has forgotten about MJ and I have finished my masters degree, met the man of my dreams, married him and had the 2.3 children that American families are supposed to have typically have etc etc etc….
    Until then all I care about is the music and the dance moves!

  7. Now as far as Ms. Palin is concerned….she put her foot in her mouth, let her struggle. And thank the man above she did not get into office. The problems Obama is trying to solve would not compare to the probles Ms. Palin would erect. The U.S. would be in more trouble than we could ever imagine. Why anyone would even consider her for office is beyond me. What in the heII was McCain thinking? Or was he.

  8. I understand the over abundance of information and opinions stemming for Michaels death, but I would hope that it would remain within the family. There are children involved, Katherine, and siblings. There is no place for specuation and rumors….the Jackson Family needs privacy and our decency to leave things lay low for now. Once the correct findings are released, then will be the time for discussion. Otherwise it is just gossip and hear say. And the family and children really shouldn’t have to deal with that along with the passing of their dad and family member. Please…be patient, have some class, for them. Thank you.

  9. A grown man who says “Sharing your bed with a child is the most loving thing you can do” is, a the very least, a sad lonely child himself or, at worst, a pedifile. Either way, kind of gross, don’t you think?

  10. Found you this morning. Great articles thoroughly enjoyed them. Becoming a fan in one reading. Love you dry sense of humour

  11. OMG, grandma Helen. I am sitting here enjoying the gems that come out of your keyboard. I’m quickly becoming a groupie.

  12. “The Christian Right should be forced to spend a week in Iran. May the best radicals win. ”


    Well said.

  13. OMG!!! This is a FANTASTIC post!!!! Can’t say I entirely agree with the last one, though perhaps I don’t understand it and you care to elaborate?

    luv to the both of you!

  14. Sally, James and all

    How about a 100 different parties?

    That would make for coalitions that make sense (hopefully)!

    Europe survived a multiparty political system for the last one hundred years without too much damage, maybe time the US tried too?

    In Germany your in the workings if your party gets more than 5% of the valid votes, THAT’s what I call democracy….

    now this is only poor little me dreaming, but……

  15. Werner,

    Thanks for the lessons of German navigation. My son took German language lessons and is quite good at picking up the ear. I will pass your suggestions on over to him.

    We don’t plan to see him during the year he is there. That is half the world away for us! Actually, if I did do that trip, I would want to go to Paris… and Italy.

    James, I would love to see a third party, not necessarily from the disenchanted Republicans, but from some other base. However, I also think that having different parties make for fraternity/sorority type mentality and is asinine in government policies. Good sense should prevail instead of party loyalty. How about a party called the American party.

  16. Sorry about your loss gramma rock! Sincere condolences. May granpa rock rest in peace.

  17. James, I wasn’t clear about Runaway Train — Eliza does her own song, not a version. This one is about the state of the country and economy.

    I wonder about the term “hero” vis a vis McCain. I always think of a hero as one who, intentionally or not, saves another or others or effects some kind of helpful change. I’m amazed that he (and anyone who goes through that kind of experience) survived the imprisonment — am I wrong to not see that as heroic, though?

  18. Poolman, I think the TEA Party movement has run its course. It began as grass roots anger over the stimulus bill, and has no central leadership or purpose except “belly aching.” A few people have speculated that once free of the governorship, Sarah Palin could focus and energize the movement.

    My worst case senario is a perfect storm of economic collapse and a foreign emergency combining with Sarah Palin’s work with TEA Party protesters. The movement could become a third Libertarian type party. That is only my opinion based on our history. The Republican Party began as a third party. I don’t think it will happen, but it could happen.

    I believe TEA Party protesters will be like the diehards who still protest our war or our nuclear weapons. From what I saw most of the TEA Party demonstrators were not natural protesters and became apathetic.

    No white surpremists were around here, but their presence doesn’t surprise me in other areas. Associating with a protest movement gives an opportunity to find recruits and to use the movement for its goals which are different from the movement’s.

    Survivalist groups did the same during the farm protests, and Marxists like the Weathermen during the Vietnam anti -war protest.

    These protest movements are like a grass fire in my opinion. They need fuel to keep them burning.

    I agree about McCain. I read one of his top choices was Senator Lieberman. They like each other. McCain’s advisers said it couldn’t happen because Lieberman is pro -choice.

    I agree, Sarah Palin probably wasn’t properly vetted. Can’t you imagine conversations a few weeks later? “She what!?” In the same tone as at the end of the B 52′s “Love Shack.” The campaign wanted to counterbalance Obama’s convention speech. It was taking him up in the polls, and the party needed something to counterbalance his momentum.

    Palin, a popular charismatic female governor with a biography as unusual as Obama’s served their purpose well. She stole the limelight, and her speeches attracted crowds. The Republicans’ poll numbers rose with Sarah and their momentum took them ahead of the Democratic ticket.

    Obama was thrashing around as his campaign and the press scoured Alaska for Palin scandals. He didn’t regain his footing until Bush told Congressional leaders the economy needed a big stimulus “yesterday.” Without the banking system crash, I think there was an even chance that Sarah Palin would be Vice President now.

    I think Biden gained his place with similar rapid calculations. After Russia invaded Georgia, Obama’s advisers realized that with his slim resume, Obama needed a second banana with gravitas. Unlike Palin, Biden has been in Washington for so many years he is a known quantity.

    I also think McCain is a good man, and I have a lot of respect for him. McCain is a genuine hero for what he endured in the Hanoi Hilton. Regardless of what he says, I think his experiences influenced the type of politician he is. He was a horrible presidential candidate.

    Susan in CT. Thanks. I will look for Eliza Gilkyson’s version of ‘Runaway Train.” It also has emotion significance for me. The song describes how I felt when returned to the United States and left the Air Force. For some reason, your comment reminded me of the two versions of “Hound Dog”. Elvis and a black woman made their versions into almost two different songs.

    PalinShutUp, politicians sometimes let off steam. I don’t see McCain’s “Bomb Iran” joke much differently that Reagan’s joking the missiles were on their way to the Soviet Union or he was exporting farmers. Senator Bob Kerry told a lesbian joke when he thought the microphone was off. Obama said something similarly politically stupid about Bible and gun clingers. I don’t think they should have said those things either, but they don’t concern me much.

    I also wish we could get rid of every dictator in the world.

    Saddam Hussein said in an interview that he tricked the world into believing he still had weapons of mass destruction. He wanted the Iraq to appear stronger than it was because otherwise, he feared Iran or another enemy would start another war.

    Thomas Friedman who supported the war focused on one if our goals which was to establish a democracy in the heart of Muslim territory. It would have far reaching effects as it showed the neighbors an alternative to religious extremist dictatorships. Bush “knew” people wouldn’t buy such gauzy motives for invading a country which posed no immediate threat to us.

    WMDs were easier to sell as we know because 9/11 was still fresh in our minds. Most Democrats agreed after they read the same intellegence as Bush. It was a tremendous mistake, because Bush’s making the weapons the raison ‘d etre for the war placed us at great moral risk. I don’t think he even considered the possibililty we wouldn’t find the weapons. Otherwise he wouldn’t have deployed so many soldiers in the hunt when they would be more efficient reestablishing order.

    Without the WMD’s we lost our moral standing for the war. I think Bush should have trusted the American people. They might have accepted the long term strategy of nation change. If they didn’t accept such abstractions, we shouldn’t have gone to war.

    Democrats owe Bush. I think he unwittingly gave us Obama.

    Not to trivialize it, but you know how you feel when you lose your car keys. “WHERE ARE THEY !!?.” I imagine Bush felt the same way. I think Bush followed short term tactics when he should have stuck with the strategy of long term change. If he lied, he lied to himself also.

    Iraqi expatriots were our main source of information about conditions and attitudes in country. We relied too heavily on people with agendas’ different from ours. They wanted us to take Hussein out so they could take over.

    Some writers have given Iraq’s new government part of the credit for the Iranian protest. They saw an alternative in Iraq. Stepping up to the plate without help from the outside world is a virtual suicide mission.

    The Iranians, for all of their courage are being arrested and an unknown number have been killed. China successfully surpressed its freedom movement. Hungarians and the Chechs rebelled against the Soviet Union and many were executed. As Gorbachev presided over the dismantlment of the Soviet Union, Communists attempted a coup. Even here, without the help of France, Poland, Germany, and others we would be Canadians. Shay’s Rebellion, the Whiskey Rebellion, and other domestic revolts failed in our own country, because they had no outside support. With such a low chance for success, is it any wonder more people decide to stay out of the game?

    I agree that we should help other countries and not take over. As we know, Afghanistan didn’t go well for the British and Soviets, in part because they attempted to impose themselves as foreign invaders. We on the other hand, used disaffection with the Taliban to help Afghans take back their own country.

    Many disparet tribes, some sympathetic to Ossama fought with us. The same applies to Iraq. A portion of the country fought with us. In both cases, a percentage of the populations owned the war as much as we did. Coinciding interests are most successful in the long run.

    Gramma Rock, as Susan in Ct wrote, we would love to hear about your husband.

    When Elvis died, someone said it was a great career move. The same for Micheal. I hope his children get some of the money.

  19. Oh, and for all that DO need German
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    Spanish and French too, but all to and from German, IF in a squeeze, translate into German first, than into the language you need.
    But carefull with multiple meangings, sometimes you get funny results translating over several language steps…..

  20. Auntie Jean / Sally

    Wien is actually the correct austrian pronouncation for over 700 years, so, sorry we don’t misspell it like the English…….

    Sally, 75 -80 % of Germans speak english, so in doubt, please just ask, and be carefull, you need LOADS of time if you change in Frankfurt, it is hugh and if your unlucky your run all over the place since they realy love to change gates frequently.

    IF you have a connceting flight, get the GERMAN spelling of your destination in advance, IF you use a train, the station is just in the basement of the airport, rather convinient.

    Good luck

  21. greytdog:

    Amen to what you said about Congress. The hefty pay raises they regularly give themselves should be tied to minimum wage….. they should increase only together and at the same percentage. As for healthcare, either make what they have available to the rest of us, or ditch theirs and put them on Medicare and see how they like that! They rant and rave about how Detroit’s biggest issues are the pensions and healthcare of retirees, what about the pensions and healthcare of Congressional retirees? Why should we have to fund their retirement? Isn’t SSI good enough for them?

    Our only hope as a Nation, to get things back on track, is to get Corporate America out of Washington…. it’s supposed to be about US…. not an artificial entity created for wealth generation.

    Oh, and while I’m on my soap box…. it’s time to end tax-exempt status for religion. It was a good idea when created, but religion has become another wealth-generating enterprise just like Corporate America.

    Okay, the coffee pot just turned off, so it’s time to fill my cup while it’s still hot and get my a@@ in gear for the day!

    Keith in NM

  22. Fluxux = Fluxx = Diarrhoea = mental Diarrhoea = brown matter (Nazi, color of SA uniforms) oozing out of mouth?

    Or did I realy misunderstand something here?

  23. Okay you all know I’m nosy. . .especially when folks say “come on over and read. . .” I meander over. I’d found kellabeck’s rant interesting, if belated. But what caught my eye was the statement “Come read my blog if you’re sick of the slavish coverage.” And I liked the blog title – made me curious. I thought this will be fun, a bit of time away from MJ coverage . . and what do I find? TWO posts out of three dedicated to MJ – and from my perspective, both posts extremely racist and very very angry. I’ve never much cared for dancing on anyone’s grave. . .

    Same with Palin coverage – she resigned. Who the hell cares what she does? Will she affect the political landscape? maybe. Will she start a third party? Who knows? But there are more important issues facing this country than Palin’s resignation or the was he/wasn’t he debate swirling around MJ.

    If only we could get Congress to effin’ focus. . . on something besides their wallets, their 401ks, their investments, & their golden parachute pensions

  24. Dear Gramma Roc,

    I am very sorry to learn of th death of your most noble husband, Granpa Roc.He was wise and knowlegeable in his tradition and worked to keep it alive. May his memory be a light and a reminder to all of a proud and meaningful path.

  25. Great post, as always, Helen and Margaret! You are spot on about hypocrisy.

    As to Michael Jackson– some (read: me) are sick of the canonization of the pop star. This is how I see it: imagine a date in the future when we learn that Orenthal James Simpson has died behind bars and the networks commence 24/7 coverage of his death, focusing on his Heisman Trophy and running back records in the NFL.

    Yes, yes, I know Jackson wasn’t charged with double murder, but imo molesting a child is a kind of murder of the soul. And it bothered me when each of the star-struck juries ignored the evidence and refused to convict them.

    I believed and continue to believe the boys who told their sordid stories of seduction by the superstar. And I recognize Jackson’s talent but I’m sick of “St. Michael.” Except as a child, Michael Jackson was not a victim. He brought his chaos upon himself.

    My sympathies are with the children he chose to bring into it, including his own however they were acquired. I hope they are able to have a happy, normal life.

    Come read my blog if you’re sick of the slavish coverage.

  26. Hi Keith, Whirled Peas and Werner,

    Keith, thanks for the heads up on the computer thing. I am the first to admit that I don’t understand ANYTHING about the inner workings of the damn things. I can just barely navigate around for what I want to do.

    I completely rely on the patience and expertise of our Computer Guru to take care of us. Some time ago he installed a quite sophisticated security system on ours that is updated every day. In fact, very often, I have to wait until it goes through its paces before it will even let me on M&H!

    Werner and Whirled Peas, I think we would all appreciate both of your input on what’s going on with XP, etc.


    Auntie Jean

  27. Hi Sistah Sally,

    Ahhhh! Pan Am. Yes, the end of a great bygone era. I’m really dating myself. We remember Pan Am so fondly for their ALWAYS ontime departures and arrivals, NEVER lost baggage and suberb inflight service! That was an unparalleled standard of excellence that could not be sustained with the bottom-line mentality of the airlines here today.

    However, if you go to Germany to visit your son, I think you might be pleasantly surprised with the caliber of Lufthansa. (Air France and to some extent British Airways too.) Even in coach, first rate meals with complimentary wine!!!

    But try to avoid Frankfort Airport. Well, you can’t. It’s HUGE!!!! It is a nightmare if you have a tight connection and don’t speak or read German very well. Once we were connecting to Vienna. We couldn’t find it on the departure board and couldn’t find anyone to tell us. It finally dawned on me that ‘Vienna’ in German is ‘Wien’. There is was, big as life right up there on the board.


    Auntie Jean

  28. Diana, Michael Jackson didn’t ‘abuse’ children…he was charged with sexual abuse…but was acquitted of those charges…he was alleged to be a pedophile, but was not convicted…he didn’t beat children as his father did he and his brothers…I don’t know about either Janet OR Latoya at this point…have never seen any actual proven statements of their claim of sexual abuse by Joe Jackson…

    I had heard over the years of the physical abuse of the Jacksons by their parents, but it wasn’t until Michael’s untimely and unusual death, that the truth was aired over and over … and from Michael’s own mouth the words came…I was very disturbed by the later appearance of Michael, but I think I understand how terribly he was treated as a youngster…I once thought he was trying to look like Diana Ross…who took him under her wing and mentored him…but today, after watching one of the many prime time shows about Michael, I think he thought he had made himself into Peter Pan…

    The remark someone made about ‘drinking bleach’ was simply ignorant…he did have that skin disease…a pigment disorder…but then, the ‘drinking bleach’ person must be the 2nd Perfect Person in the World…

    Katherine Jackson lives apart from Joe Jackson…

    Neither of them will be raising the grandchildren…I hope whoever was named im Michael’s will, will not treat them like strange creatures and they can live somewhat more normal lives now…although, I know they will truly miss their father…he appeared to be a very caring, loving father to those 3 children…

    I was not a great fan of Michael’s, but I did like a few of his songs…he WAS such a cute young boy…and his snake of a father/monster ruined him for life…it is sad that he died so young…

    But as far as Elvis, he certainly did become a strange form of himself before he died…he was very unhealthy, overweight, and a heavy drug abuser…

    Such a shame the way we treat our entertainers…they all become our ‘widgets’.

    Great post, Helen…very insightful, and I too have never understood the Pro Life/Pro War bunch…
    (some are members of my own family): {

  29. Shannyn Moore on Countdown with Keith Olbermann

  30. despite the fact that i disagreed with some of his views, including choice, i began losing respect for him when he sang that song about bombing Iran and the rest was gone when he chose sp, I was under the impression he was no follower

    james, I wish we could get rid of every single dictator of the world but in reality we cant

    bush used lies and our weaknesses fear during 9/11 to invade iraq, yes we got rid of hussein for them and they may be better for it now and our soldiers are heroes


    there are many wealthy people from all of these countries living right here who have families and interests there, many who were wealthy before and wealthier now…what happened to stepping up? helping your countrymen? why couldnt they get rid of their own dictator?

    like ive wrote before, i believe in helping these countries, not taking over

    sp is a hypocrite of the highest order, she billed Alaska for living in her home yet billed rape victims for their rape kits

    a tarnished dented star as far as im concerned

  31. Gramma Rock, I would love to read more about Granpa Rock when you feel up to it.

    James, find Eliza Gilkyson’s “Runaway Train.” Different song, very powerful.

  32. I don’t think McCain chose sp as much as he was told she was what he needed. He was scrambling at the time and was sold a bill of goods.

    She wasn’t properly vetted. There were fabrications made in GOP camps and he was ill advised by trusted advisors. Nothing new. Politics as usual. It wasn’t till after the honeymoon, beyond annulment, that he realized his new handicap. Then tried to gather all the facets of the GOP and rally the troops. Unfortunately his predecessor, his scrambling, and his butt-kissing made him look bad next to Barack.

    I’m really surprised he carried what he did. But I believe in his heart, McCain is sincere. He takes the blame for all his missteps, IMO.

  33. personally, i think mccain allowed his weiner to get the best of him and i think by the time sp stood up on that stage, the lime light, the adoring public….
    she got hooked/the higher calling, her old job in Alaska is too mundane



  34. Fluxux, I think she may want us to learn from the innocents and less fortunate in the world. But in her awkward way, did not communicate that well. I truly don’t believe she wishes for the spread of down’s syndrome in the world. But that is really the biggest issue. SP is not able to articulate well and has really come across as naive and unpolished in thought and deed. Though that raw aspect has gained her some fans, it has also caused others to rightfully challenge her ability to lead.

  35. James, I understand gov Rick Perry was booed at Texas tea parties this weekend. Many others had so few attendees and all the sponsors backed out. Do you think this is a dying movement, or is it that people are once again becoming apathetic? The white supremists are definitely trying to recruit at these and pretty hardcore. Maybe there is no clear-cut agenda or direction beyond mere bellyaching.

  36. Fluxx, who wrote that article?

    btw, I think it was written as a rather mean tongue-in-cheek.

  37. “But tell me what this means, and I have heard sp say it more than once: “The world needs more Trigs” Does that mean she would like to see more babies born with downs syndrome?” -Poolman

    Poolman, I don’t know what she meant by that. My guess is that she was making a statement about attitudes toward fetal abnormality.

  38. Donna,
    Do you object to this? -

    “In Sarah Palin’s resignation announcement she complained about the treatment of her son Trig who always teaches her life lessons. She said that the “world needs more Trigs, not fewer.” That’s a presidential campaign promise we can all get behind. She will be the first politician to actually try to increase the population of retarded people. To me, it’s kinda like saying the world needs more cancer patients because they teach us such personal lessons.

    Her first act as President: To introduce a Pre-K lunch buffet that includes lead paint chips. Sort of a Large HEAD-START Program.

    She will then encourage women to hold off on pregnancies until their 40′s just to mix up some chromosomes.

    She now is in favor of abortion only in case of diploid birth.

    Her policies will increase jobs because Wal-Mart is building new stores each day and someone has to be the greeter.

    This will lead to smaller government because fewer Americans will have the cognitive ability to hold a government job.”

  39. PalinShutUP, when I believe I am right about something like Palin’s star quality, I tend to indulge in overkill. It is one of my failings to beat a dead horse into rubble until it shows no more signs of life. I learned it in light combat. Don’t fight unless you are prepared to win .

    Grad school reinforced lessons learned because students competing for A’s tried to shoot each other down in class discussion. Veterans were special targets of anti -war students, but we were usually ready. Professors graded us on good discussions, and we tried to make each other look bad.

    For example, I massacred four students with my rebuttal of their attempt to discredit my view of Webb’s “The Great Plains”. I threw in Ole Rolvaag’s “Giants in the Earth” to finish them off. Palin , “The Great Plains” or “Giants in the Earth” are the same to me–real but abstractions. I try to tone it down, but I forget.

    I know a little about TEA Parties, anti -war movements and agrarian protest movements. They attract fringe extremists who would like to subvert protesters for their own purposes. They are like parasitic cow birds. Timothy McVie (SP), the Branch Davidians, the shooters at Ruby Ridge, and others had indirect ties to farm protests in the seventies and eighties, for example.

    A small group in the anti -war movement planed to insight a riot at the Democratic Convention in 1968, but the innocent foot soldiers had no clue. Surely extremists hope to capture the TEA Party movement too. Like the other movements, the core membership is not like the extremists.

    Thanks for posting the interview. I watched and taped it. As you write, Biden did NOT cast slurs at Sarah Palin. Anyone who says differently is proven wrong by reading what you posted.

    Kieth in NM, thanks for posting the warning about an XP security risk. It will help a lot of people including us.

    Kim Commando, a computer talk show host said when Michael died Google was so flooded by hits some parts shut down and for a bit they worried about a terrorist web attack. I think private messages, twitter and other functions shut down locally.

    Kim said Jackson’s death illlustrates a weakness in our computer communications. If for example North Korea starts a small nuclear war, so many people will be surfing the web we may have only newspapers, television, and radio for news for awhile.

  40. And politico is populated with people who say the most disgusting awful things about the President and his wife–calling him a drug addict, making Black jokes, saying his wife is a transvestite. Have you objected? Or have you objected to the losers who post on C4P who say the same sorts of things?

    Huffpo isn’t usually cited as authoritative–it’s more so that when an article appears someone may comment on it. It hardly serves as an endorsement for every poster.

    I often ignore the trolls that lurk here (and who’ve been out in force at Shannyn’s blog) because I do believe that most of them have real emotional and character issues that cause them–behind the anonymity of an avatar–to say things for no constructive reason. That doesn’t mean I agree with them.

  41. This isn’t a site where people have ever made fun of Palin’s special needs child. -quote

    Fair enough, Donna. But Huffpo is aften used to support arguments and opinions here and they posted that shit about Palin and there’s no douche-ing around that.

    One of the posters recently called another a ‘tard’ and no one said a damn thing except some asslicker who cheered that shit on.

  42. This is for Fluxx who obviously needs a clue:

    tou·ché (t-sh)
    Used to acknowledge a hit in fencing or a successful criticism or an effective point in argument.
    In fencing: a valid touch; the tip of the sword; an attack made with the point (ie. a thrust)

    Poolman verbally did what I would term as a classic fencing move, the Counter-riposte and in doing so, landed a hit on Fluxx.

    End of fencing lesson.

  43. Actually, Fluxux, it’s not “all we got.” And we don’t even have that. This isn’t a site where people have ever made fun of Palin’s special needs child. At most, they have observed Palin’s rather extraordinary manipulation of him for her political advantage.

    Certainly, the fact that Palin has a special needs child is irrelevant to me–and would be for anyone. I have Downs and truly seriously challenged children in my social circle and one reason I admire their parents is that they don’t exploit their family situation.

    Had Palin not attempted to exploit her children (either the baby or Bristol), I seriously doubt they would have been the subject of any discussion at all.

    However, to use your rather quaint patois, “all I got” is Palin’s dishonesty, willingness to stir up hatred and bigotry, lack of either intelligence or intellectual curiosity, vindictiveness, and desire to impose her rather bizarre (Exhibit A in this regard being Reverend Murthee) religion on others. I “got” someone who believes humans walked the earth with dinosaurs and who is convinced that the “rapture” will come in her lifetime. I “got” someone who has (whether do to her religious view that the world is coming to an end) destructive views concerning the environment. And I “got” someone who relies on her fading looks in lieu of genuine achievement or character.

  44. ‘Fluxx go home, soak your bunions, and drink some more whine.’

    LOL touche’!

    james, wondering, tourettes? not trying to be rude but you must have posted about a half dozen times already (??) regarding palin’s ‘star quality’ and comparing her to Obama, I think we got the message of how you feel about her and you know how we feel about that so why do you keep repeating yourself?

    Tea parties, everyone is an expert now, it amuses me, but they have every right to their opinions too and of course i didnt mean you personally james, just keeping the information flowing Ive been wondering why tea parties are such magnet for supremacy groups?

    about biden and the economy, here is the link to the complete transcript of that show and what Biden REALLY said


    ‘STEPHANOPOULOS: While we’ve been here, some pretty grim job numbers back at home — 9.5 percent unemployment in June, the worst numbers in 26 years.

    How do you explain that? Because when the president and you all were selling the stimulus package, you predicted at the beginning that, to get this package in place, unemployment will peak at about 8 percent. So, either you misread the economy, or the stimulus package is too slow and to small.

    BIDEN: The truth is, we and everyone else misread the economy. The figures we worked off of in January were the consensus figures and most of the blue chip indexes out there.

    Everyone thought at that stage — everyone — the bulk of…

    STEPHANOPOULOS: CBO would say a little bit higher.

    BIDEN: A little bit, but they’re all in the same range. No one was talking about that we would be moving towards — we’re worried about 10.5 percent, it will be 9.5 percent at this point.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: But we’re looking at 10 now, aren’t we?

    BIDEN: No. Well, look, we’re much too high. We’re at 9 — what, 9.5 right now?


    BIDEN: And so the truth is, there was a misreading of just how bad an economy we inherited. Now, that doesn’t — I’m not — it’s now our responsibility. So the second question becomes, did the economic package we put in place, including the Recovery Act, is it the right package given the circumstances we’re in? And we believe it is the right package given the circumstances we’re in.

    We misread how bad the economy was, but we are now only about 120 days into the recovery package. The truth of the matter was, no one anticipated, no one expected that that recovery package would in fact be in a position at this point of having to distribute the bulk of money.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: No, but a lot of people were saying that you needed to do something bigger and bolder then, including the economist Paul Krugman. He’s saying — right now he’s saying the same thing again — don’t wait. You need a second stimulus, you need it now.

    BIDEN: Look, what we have to do now is we have to properly, adequately, transparently and effectively spend out the $787 billion.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: That’s your job. You’re in charge of that now.

    BIDEN: That is my job, and I think we’re doing it well. If you noticed, George, I mean, there were other predictions. This was going to be wasteful and all these terrible projects were going to be out there, and we’re wasting money. Well, that dog hasn’t barked yet.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, Senator Coburn has identified some.

    BIDEN: Yes — no, he hasn’t, but he did, he identified one hundred ? forty-eight of which we had already killed. And so — and the rest I dispute. So the bottom line though is, I think anybody would say this has been pretty well managed so far.

    The question is, how do you now — do we — what we have to do, George, is we have to, as this rolls out, put more pace on the ball. The second hundred days you’re going to see a lot more jobs created.

    And the reason you are is now all of these contracts for the over several thousand highway projects that have approved.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: But you’re also seeing states across the country cutting back on their programs. Many of the people on unemployment?

    BIDEN: Sure.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: ? today are going to run out of unemployment in September. That means for a lot of those people, if there is not a second stimulus, they’re going to be out in the cold.

    BIDEN: Well, look, we have increased the amount of money unemployed — those on unemployment rolls have gotten, 12 million are getting more money because of the stimulus package.

    We’ve increased the number of people eligible by 2 million people. We’ve given a tax cut to 95 percent of the people who get a pay stub. They have somewhere — $60 bucks a month out there that’s going into the economy.

    There is a lot going on, George. And I think it’s premature to make the judgment?

    STEPHANOPOULOS: So no second stimulus?

    BIDEN: No, I didn’t say that. I think it’s premature to make that judgment. This was set up to spend out over 18 months. There are going to be major programs that are going to take effect in September, $7.5 billion for broadband, new money for high-speed rail, the implementation of the grid — the new electric grid.

    And so this is just starting, the pace of the ball is now going to increase….’

    BTW, yahoo and a bunch of other whazzoos media outlets are reporting Biden slammed sp in that interview but if you read what he ACTUALLY said for yourself you will see its another bunch of BS

    see? the media doesnt ‘just pick on sp’

    just saying

  45. Fluxx go home, soak your bunions, and drink some more whine.

  46. my condolences to gramma rock

  47. great job again!

  48. Fluxux, I don’t like hate speech from the left or right. I think it comes from the fringe on both sides. But please, look up the meaning of hypocrite. Then honestly tell me if you have heard about any of the same in the news lately, Fox or Huffpo. Do you see a recent trend, or are you having to adjust YOUR blinders?

  49. My point is that Huffpo can say something as hateful as that and you think that’s just dandy. If Rush or Fox News had said it, the hypocrites would be going nuts.

    Greytdog did you mean Douche? Cuz Palin is not ashamed of her special needs son, and I agree it’s douche-y to use that against her. But it’s all you got.

  50. 7 US Soldiers were killed in Afghanistan today. 6 by IEDs. Barely mentioned on the news.

  51. “she has been wearing Trig like a badge at all public events.”

    Oh touche!

  52. Fluxux, I don’t know what your point is exactly. But tell me what this means, and I have heard sp say it more than once: “The world needs more Trigs” Does that mean she would like to see more babies born with downs syndrome? I still don’t get what she means, but she has been wearing Trig like a badge at all public events.

  53. Greytdog, Captiva was another one of my favorite sites. I learned to sail at their fantastic sailing school. I heard the Mucky Duck is no more. Miss those beer batter shrimp.
    Our favorite place for a family vacation with the dogs was Bahia Honda in the keys. We rented a house next to the state park. The kids and dogs loved snorkeling even among the attendants who came for the nude beach.
    I missed the mountains also while in FL and was able to return to them eventually.

  54. What if Barack Obama had a baby with down’s syndrome and Fox News put up a headline that read “Obama Will Run In ’08 On More Retardation Platform.”

  55. Helen & Margaret – Congrats on 2 Mill! Outstanding! I love you gals more than most of my own relatives!

    Gramma Rock, please accept my heartfelt condolences on the passing of Granpa Rock. I am thankful for his service to our country and respect his devotion to his heritage. Thank you for sharing your lives and experiences with us. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

    Grandma Katie – Happy belated Birthday! I hope you were spoiled rotten that day!


  56. The article states that she is not under FBI investigation. There are other federal agencies out there. Al Capone didn’t get nabbed by the FBI. :)

    Ya know the funny thing is that when they announced MJ’s death and that his mother was on the way to the hospital – I just thought Joe had been dead for a while. Guess he was busy with his new record label and finagling to get his hands on whatever money is left in MJ’s estate to take the time to be with the grieving family.

  57. ALERT: If your computer runs Microsoft XP you have a huge security risk…. read this article:


    Microsoft suggests disabling part of your computer’s software, which can be done at their web-site, until they have a patch.

    Keith in NM

  58. Makes is sound like she’s joining the priesthood doesn’t it? Perfect for preaching abstinenence-only as a means of controling unwanted pregnancies amongst our youth, don’t you think?

    And as to ‘mainstream media’ failing to understand her decision, maybe that’s because she’s desparately out of step with mainstream Americans.

    On a different subject, I think Michael Jackson would be embarrassed at the zoo his memorial has become. It really smells like Joe Jackson.

    Keith in NM

  59. Palin not under investigation….


    “And though it’s honorable for countless others to leave their positions for a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I make.”

  60. Werner, did German school children have spelling bees as they do in America? Poor kids if they did :-)

  61. Granma Rock, may Granpa Rock rest in peace and his spirit be with you.

  62. Grandma Rock…
    I am truly sorry for your loss…..God Bless you

  63. Gramma Rock – I am very sorry for your loss. I hope you have family around you at this time.

  64. Fox’s latest with Liz Trota re: Sarah

  65. Actually Werner, Just for the record: the Palin clan is all out fishing this week – Todd’s a part-time commercial fisherman and so it’s all hands on deck during the short season (sarah’s just there for a day – too much time away from her twitterberry). Papa-In-Law was out catching his King Salmon and thus couldn’t be there for the breathless meltdown resignation – Todd had to text him.
    From the twit’s tweet (23 hrs ago): “As has been the case for decades, family is commercial fishing in Bristol Bay-I look forward to joining the work crew for 1 day picking fish”

  66. Jane, we’re just twiddling thumbs and waiting for the next H&M post.

    Condolences, dear Gramma Rock. I am hearing “Spirit in the Sky” for Granpa Rock.

    Werner, Hawaiians have some pretty loooong names for their kids. Even though they are supposed to have spaces between the words, they are strung together because it is a middle or first name. Fun to hear some of the really long ones read off at graduations here.

    Jean, it was Pan Am. That was the end of a great era.

  67. And here some wise words of (an other) dead man:

    “Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are stupider than that.” —

    George Carlin

  68. Poolman
    sorry re-read translation mistake on my side

    verreckts = dead thing, something dead, smelly, from verreck = go and die!

  69. Werner, Sarah Palin with my looks would scare rats and small children.

    I have been in that town in Wales. I used to know the meaning of the long name. It is something like town with a church in a vale etc. Some of my ancestors came from Wales.

    Poolman all of the talk of Sarah Palin illustrates my point. She has “it” for those who love and hate her. If she were like the rest, no one would care. Good for her.

    No Republican or Democrat politician today except Obama has her star power . Bad for the Republicans and maybe Democrats. Maybe she is out permanently fishing and laughing at the uproar she has caused.

    I read Mama Jackson is rather frail. Maybe she chose to have herself removed. Complicated estates are emotionally draining, and they live for years. I wouldn’t want the job.

    Many more Americans and Afghanis will die. War is hell.

    gramma rock, I know you are strong, but I hope you take extra care of yourself during the next few weeks.

  70. Greytdog,
    this was Pa (in “Law”) Palin on the fishng trip, just for the record…..

  71. jsri
    first, if I translate your first nation Mass. lake name correct it would translate into the Queen’s Enlgish into soemthing like this: “Bad cough lake” (?) ;-)

    Second, the wife (Prof of French Literature here in Montreal, Quebec) has the following theory:
    In Heaven they speak only 2 languages, French and German!
    Why? It takes an eternity to learn them!

    excellent translation, but Bavarian is NOT German (A bit like Welsh is NOT English) and the last part
    Glump = Piece of soemthing, mostly like in Piece of cr*p!
    (No joke, Bavarian is a rather direct language, and me born a North Bavarian (exactly: Frank, admittandly a different kind of breed) I do know quiet a bit from that language, but since you spoke of a “German” curse I did not think of Bavarian as source…..

  72. oy!

    mama jackson removed as temp. executor of MJ’s estate. Papa Jackson probably have hissy fits about this.
    Ex-wife Rowe may or may not want the kids. . .depends on $$$ probably. Same could be said about Papa Jackson. . .

    Palin is out fishing – but will probably be home early cuz she’s not having fun. . .

    And 7 American soldiers died in Afghanistan today

  73. Werner, here it is and it is Bavarian. My good friend in Germany helped and attempts the translation:


    it is not so easy to translate but i try

    herrgott =god
    zefix =cruzyfix
    mileckstamoarsch= kiss my as
    scheißglump =shitty thing?
    verreckts =no way to translate this….

  74. Werner:

    Massachusetts has Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg reputedly the longest name for a site in N. America. It is also known as Webster lake for the town where it is located.

    Years ago I had a faculty colleague in the German Dept who once taught at UCal Berkeley. In the building elevator someone had written a German word in 2 inch block letters that stretched across the back wall of the elevator. Within weeks, bits and pieces were gradually added fore and aft and eventually a word?? that made sense stretched all the way around the elevatior. When he left a couple years later, there were three such words on the walls.
    I can’t attest to the truth of what he said but having struggled in grad school with the German penchant for compound words I wouldn’t doubt him.

  75. Dear, dear grandma rock,

    My heart grieves for you, your family and friends with grandpa’s passing.

    I hope the memories of the life you had together will sustain you. We all here know he led an honorable life. He will be sorely missed.

    With aloha,

    Auntie Jean

  76. Jane dear,

    don’t fret, we’re only discussing “stress releave” here ;-)

    (and I think we’re also done already, no offense ment!)

  77. Honestly…

  78. Poolman
    there is no German curse starting with “hemihex….” since it means nothing in German, my favorite German curse is:



    not long, but effective!

  79. greytdog, I know you have been following Shannyn’s blog and you probably caught that link to her press report.

    It is just amazing how sp has been the talk of this weekend and gets all this press that she supposidly doesn’t want. Why would you give such an announcement with such vague detail if you didn’t want to stir up the masses?

    I’m going to start using Shannyn’s description she used regarding the protesters of the gays, or these “righteous” ones as Xians. Christians without Christ, just like Xmas. I think it fits.

  80. I would love to know what Margaret & Helen think of Palin’s Surprise! Resignation & subsequent threat to sue the pants off of Shannyn Moore, NYTimes, WaPo, HuffPo, and apparently she’s added in The Daily Dish, TPM, MSNBC. . . We’ll know M&H have reached the big boys when Palin threatens to sue them!

  81. The word for the Tobacco mosaic virus…In its complete form, the chemical name contains 1185 letters and is one of the longest words in English:


    Werner I thought there was a german curse word hemihex….?? that was pretty long. I’m sure you know that one.

  82. Is it time for a new Helen post or what?!?!?!?! :-)

  83. ΔTine & Werner – German’s got nothing on Welsh

    may seem like a random collection of letters but it is in fact a tiny place on the island of Anglesey in Wales. It is thought to be the longest place name in the world.

  84. Tine

    As you might know, we Germans are very ecological, so we don’t like to waste paper on spaces….. LOL

    Now, just imagine, let’s play this game where only the first and last letter in a word have to be at the correct place, but play it in GERMAN!


    (This was me, seeing your face reading the above, ;-P)

  85. Welcome Edna. Like Poolman, I am also a Phoenician. Right now I’d like to live almost anywhere else, it’s so hot. I’ve been here for 26 years and for about the last 10 I have been growing increasingly less tolerant of the summers. I’d love to live in Hawaii, but I will settle for Sedona. We’re working on that goal.

    Gramma Rock, I am sending light and love your way. So sorry for your loss.

  86. Yup. As an editor, I can’t help but wonder: What on Earth do the Germans have against word spaces? Do they just like to make things harder for readers by running everything together? Or is it typical German one-upsmanship? :P

    (I’m kidding, of course. Part German myself. :) )

  87. I’m asleep…. I’m asleep…. I’ll touch yours if you touch mine…. I’m asleeep….

  88. Tine count the letters (part of your job, isn’t it ;-) )
    Streetnames are definitly harmles!

  89. try once more the link:

  90. On my last trip to Frankfurt, I noticed the ridiculously long street names. It took a lot of extra sheet metal to make street signs big enough for some of those names. ;)

  91. You want to know the differences between Iran and Iraq, culturel and others?

    Listen to this young lady: She defines the difference between Iran and Iraq for Americans wioth this words: “Iran, we are those WITH WMD”

    really worth a look see

  92. Out of context, SMILE ALERT:

    Officil longest German word:


    63 letters, one word, one law, gotta “lawe” the Germans!

    Let’s see if I can translate that one (it is a law, and by this rather hard to understand in the first place…..):

    BeefLabelingMonitoringDutiesTransferLaw, that’s a good approximate…..

    We Germans may not have the longest……, but WORDS, well words, we do have long ones……;-P

  93. gramma rock, sorry to hear of granpa rock’s passing on to the spirit world. He sounds like a very good soul. I pray you and your family are comforted in this time of loss.

  94. gramma rock

    my sincere condolences to you and your clan.

    But since, if I am right, in your world he only passed on into the spirit world, I hope, while he is shurly missed in this one, his spirit can roam free now in the next world…….



  95. Finally: Happy birthday, Grandma Katie! I hope it was a great day. :)

  96. Hello, Edna, and welcome to the parlor. Here: have a piece of pie. What’s your beverage of choice? Tea? Irish whiskey? Incidentally…only a few of us live in Hawaii. The rest only wish we did. As for me: I’m in Minnesota. There’s a small herd of us Minnesotans here. Some comment frequently and loudly; the rest mostly read quietly and politely, like proper Minnesotans.

    Congrats to Helen, Margaret, and Matthew on reaching the 2-million mark!

  97. UUUUPS nearly forgot our elderly:

    Happy Birthday Gandma Kathie!

    So what’s it, the first 100 done? ;-P

    Well here’s to the next 100!!!!!!

    May you live long and stay healthy!


  98. Gramma Rock, I am sorry for your loss and sending you prayers of comfort. May Grandpa Rock watch over you and all your family.

  99. gramma rock, I add my sincere condolences for your loss.
    Hugs to you and your family.


    Hope you’ll stick around long enough to make it 20!!!!!!

    All the Best to you, and loads of that!


  101. James
    …If I were her, I would have stayed in office until the end. Its what she contracted for when she ran for office. But I’m not she, thank God. Imagine her with my beliefs. Scary. ….

    Your believes could only IMPROVE on her mixed up sack of fermenting “Dino’s in Jesus Disneyland”…

    Now, imaging her with your LOOKS, that might scare some…..;-P

  102. Sally
    …Every year they talk about banning fireworks entirely, and then the legislators bring up the religious (bullshit) traditions, etc.

    Illegal aerials seem to be more common and plentiful as time goes by. This past New Year’s Eve I watched from our balcony the constant show of aerials and listened to the sirens of the fire trucks.

    It sounds horrible, but I really do love it. It is part of my childhood and tradition, crazy though it is….

    Sounds a lot like Germany around New years eve, gERMAN SPEND LITERALLY bILLIONS ON fIRECRACKERS uups soor caps, and crackem up to a week before where you have on new years morning until 4 -6.00 AM New years day CONSTANT cracking going on, even a bit much for my taste, and than the youngsters that like to throw ‘em lit undder your feet….?

    Well, they’re just kids, but I did chase the aodd 1 or 3….

  103. Gramma Rock,

    I’m so sorry for your loss.

  104. UAW Tradesman introduced an important concept when he unintentionally started this little debate. People believe what they want to believe.

    Re the discussions of states, I want to visit Hawaii and Alaska. They are two of the eight states I have not visited. I like Arizona and New Mexico. Our family has a history there and a cousin wants to hold our next reunion near her home in Tucson.

    Every place has its charm, but for me Iowa, Nebraska, and South Dakota is a little bit of heaven.

  105. Another thing about Iraq is the UN sanctions allowed for income to feed Iraqi people. The Hussein regime diverted that money to other uses, and people starved, according to human rights organizations.

    The TEA Parties I know about were not racist. Their main motivation was to protest a stimulus bill so huge and introduced so rapidly, most law makers had no time to read what they were voting for. They were also protesting Bush’s stimulus spending. A Republican Congressman who spoke attracted a smattering of boos.

    They protested construction of the bill. The Democratic version was forward loaded to kick in by 2010 and beyond when the adminstration’s rosey predictions determined the recession would be largely over. They estimated the unemployment rate would peak at just over 8%. Only about ten per cent of the stimulus money has been spent, and much of it to provide government, not private sector jobs.

    Republicans and some Democrats produced a more focused and less expensive bill, but it was doomed before it reached the paper it was written on.

    To date, the TEA Party movement was right and well paid economists were wrong about the economy. I am sure Obama will change course to improve the stimulus plan, but we are talking about what has happened to date.

    The National Debt is growing faster than the GDP. According to the Congressional Budget Office our publicaly held debt will double to 82% of the GDP. The CBO predicts that by 2038 our debt will be 200 % of GDP. Dept restricts growth because it sucks in money which would be invested in businesses and other productive uses. It makes possible a recovery much different than what we are accustomed to.

    TEA Party protesters knew the stimulus would not work as planned. It is why they gathered. I overheard a conservation. One man said “I didn’t expect to see you here.” The other replied “I’m here because of my grand children.”

    One speaker spoke of our need to control our borders. That is also an economic, not a racist issue.

    The crowd reminded me more of a high school pep rally than an angry crowd. Hispanics and a few Asians also attended. I know you didn’t direct “racist” to me PalinShutUp, so I’m not mad at you, but the term as it refers to the TEA Parties is nothing but a smear–at least as it applies to the Heartland TEA Parties.

    My wife and two cousins were in Omaha on April 15. Asians from two countries are in our family, and we have distant Lakota Sioux relatives.

  106. Susan in CT, I was playing Soul Asylum’s version of “Runaway Train.” Now, my computer is playing Alannah Myles’ “Black Velvet.” I love her sultry sound.

    gramma rock, my condolences too. I wish I knew words of comfort, but I don’t.

    Our own vice president said we won in Iraq. I believe him. Before the invasion, Saddam Hussein’s government was torturing and killing Iraqis, paying stipends to families of suicide bombers, shooting at our planes in the no fly zone, bribing UN and European officials to end the sanctions so he could rebuild his weapons of mass destruction, and lurching into instability. Interneciene violence which might make many of Hussein’s weapons available to terrorists was a real fear.

    Al Quiada declared Iraq the main front in its war against the west and turned it into a major recruiting tool. Not any more. They lost and turned their attention elsewhere. We and the Iraqis defeated al Sadr’s forces who were Iran’s fifth column intended to dominate Iraq. Iran overplayed its hand, and has less than intended influence in Iraq. Iran did not win what they hoped to win.

    Instead of an unhappy country lurching toward disillusion, we have a proto democracy which may have indirectly influenced Iran’s protest movement. Iraqis are virtually the only Middle East residents who can vote in reasonably fair elections.

    Iraqis are rebuilding , and oil production is rising. Hussein’s government had allowed oil extraction infrastructure to deteriorate. Now, new oil reserves have been found. They will eventually add to the world’s total energy supply. Our victory created a better country for its people and its neighbors. Our victory also tarnished some of the sheen Al Quaida wore.

    Celebrating our departure from the cities was a good thing. It illustrates growing Iraqi national pride. They believe they can fight their own battles without an occupying force. I don’t think riot police stopped them. The celebrants were expressing their freedom of expression and getting away with it.

    Iraq could still fall apart, but as of today, we won.

    I opposed the initial invasion. I was wrong.

  107. Gramma Rock, So sorry to hear about Grampa Rock. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

  108. My condolences grandma rock. I am sorry for your loss first, and the loss to the entire tribe secondly. Thank you for giving us a small view of his place in history.

  109. Gramma Rock,

    Grandpa Rock sounds like an honorable and wonderful man. I know it has to be hard but he left you and the world a better place.

    My condolences.

  110. My sincerest condolences to you and your family, Gramma Rock. Granpa Rock was a true hero!

  111. Gramma, I am so sorry for your loss.

  112. You are in my thoughts, Gramma Rock…

  113. gramma rock, my deepest sympathy to you. He was a true warrior. Wind to thy wings, granpa rock, wind to thy wings.

  114. My condolences grandma rock. May the white light of the holy spirit surround and protect you in this difficult time.

  115. granpa rock passed on june 29 and was buried on the fourth of july at the boy river cemetary on the leech lake reservation. he was the eldest member of the wolf clan, descendent of signatory ojibwe chief flatmouth and one of the last native speaking hereitry mikundwe ogitchidag (warrior chiefs). a highly decorated veteran of the korean war.

  116. Hi Sistah Sally, Poolman and Greytdog,

    Late night so it’s Hawaiian ‘talk story’ time. I’m going to try to plant some Poinciana seed pods and see what happens. My Greek Olive trees divided nicely and are doing well. They are only 3′-4′ feet high though.

    What airline did you fly with?

    Poolman, by all means do come back!!!! Our economy is depending on you. Tourism is our life blood! Most of us enjoy the tourists, talking to them and giving them some pointers where to go and where not to go. We were tourists once and appreciated that.

    Mt. Waialeale is the wettest spot on earth with some 400 inches of rain a year. My, you WERE brave to tackle the Kalalau Trail. We are too chicken hearted. That’s a 11 mile stretch for experienced hikers. Usually they take food, water and a bedroll for an overnighter.

    We have done a 2 mile trail in Waimea Canyon into a secluded waterfall with a pool. Right out of the movie, “South Pacific”.

    You probably know that every island is distinctly different and each one has its special enchantment.

    We have done almost every square inch of the U.S. at one time or another. Every state has its own unique beauty and charming people.

    Greytdog, we have been to Florida countless times for seminars. Once we drove across Tamiami Highway, hoping to see a panther. No luck. It was well worth the trip though, panthers or no panthers.


    Auntie Jean

  117. My wife, who reads over my shoulder, tells me my Kauai trip was in 96. Maui was 98. Honolulu Sally, I definitely will be back. This time I will spend time on Oahu and maybe the big island.
    I’m sure tourism is down, due to the economy. Though the locals probably prefer less of us haoles around.

    Arizona has some very beautiful land also, just no ocean.

  118. Jean, the Gold trees and the Poinciana trees are in bloom, more so than usual, and very beautiful. I have some yellow (!) seed pods from the Linekona Art Center. Quite unusual, will try to plant.

    We gloat here Poolman. Some days it is so beautiful it is like living in a painting. But it also can be very hot and humid some days, and everytime it rains and is cloudy, I wish them away for the sake of our tourists. They should have the best, don’t you think?

    I must say though, that New England still remains in my head as beautiful land. Cool, clean, fresh, simple. And good food.

    Even though I flew as a flight attendant back in the 70′s and 80′s, I hardly saw the rest of the USA except for the big cities. It would be nice to see Iowa (is this Heaven?), Arizona, and the lesser populated areas.

    I will soak in the beauty of Hawaii for you Poolman. Better yet, come back for a visit. We need the tourists.

  119. Yeah, Jean. I hear you. Gloat! Gloat! I spent a week in Kauai in December of 1998 as a tourist with a bunch of swimming pool dealers from the states. There was still a little damage evident from the hurricane, but it was gorgeous nonetheless. A few of us braved the Kalalau Trail for a little ways on the Na Pali Coast, but it was rainy and muddy (no duh). I think that is one of the wettest spots in the world. Breath-taking though. I sure love it there. Soak in all that beauty for us, will you. Us mainlanders will try to cope. Ha!

  120. Hi Poolman, Greytdog and Sally,

    Just back from ‘church’. There is a five minute trail down the bluff from home, but it is a little treacherous for us old timers. We jump in the car and wend our way down in under 10. Just had to rub that in a little. But Poolman, AZ is GORGEOUS too. One of our sons went to ASU.

    Greatdog, as you probably know, my husband and I are both mountain people from Northern NH and CO. So we have to have mountains. But here, the ocean is out the back, the mountains are out the front. We have the best of both possible worlds here in Paradise. Brag! Brag!

    Sally, are your Poinciana trees in bloom all over? For the uninitiated, they are huge umbrellas covered with clusters of flame red blossums. Breathtaking!!!!!

    Gloat! Gloat! But it took us 34 years to get us here and 3 years to pull off the move. Lotta work. We earned it!



  121. ‘Just what exactly do you think we won????????? ‘

    Lori, I ask myself that same question whenever I hear someone say ‘WE won’

    WE won nothing.

    I am against invading of any kind, support, yes, invade NO.

  122. Georgia, just remember, howling monkey are never open for discussion or debate, Ive presented that particular troll with evidence prior but it chose to dismiss them

    it only accepts and parrots links that supports its twisted views

    I dont respect trolls. Some here coddle them, I dont. Yes, it takes all types to make a village.

    ‘A bunch of TEA Party activists demonstrated against both parties partly with the same expressed opinion that the plan would not work as planned.’

    james, tea parties/white supremacy


    greytdog ‘Anyone who thinks this administration can reverse in 6 months what took 8 years to accomplish. . .is delusional.’

    that’s right

    RIGHT ON to Shannyn Moore!

    sp represents everything I loathe in the extreme right.

  123. Hey hey congratulations M&H! 2 mill is quite an accomplishment! Great job and thank you for sharing your unique perspectives/s. Heres to 2 million more Salute!

    Poolman I agree with you about Palin not being ready for prime time. At one point in the campaign I actually started to feel a tiny bit sorry for her….. sorta

    Here is the thing with Palin, she doesn’t learn her (political) lesson. She keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over.. She continues to go after the low hanging fruit. Fighting with Letterman, whining about the MSM, picking fights with an 18 year old boy… etc…. Middle school preteen girls antics… She just doesn’t get that just because they stick a microphone in front of your face it doesn’t mean you should open your mouth. She is a light weight and a disastrous candidate. I am not a mind reader but if I had to guess what her plans are I would guess some sort of TV gig.

    James, it is reported there was dancing in the streets and fireworks in the skies of Baghdad this week. It seems that there was a small miscalculation when it came to when the celebrations in Iraq were going to take place. instead of beign GREETED with cheers and sweets we were being ushered out with huge celebrations of our departure.

    Just what exactly do you think we won????????? We illegally invaded a country for a God sakes! The only country that won any thing as a result of this war was Iran. We accomplished what they tried to do for a decade. Oust Saddam and the Bathist party and allow a clear path for the Sheites.

  124. “By coincidence my computer was playing “Runaway Train.” ”

    Oooo, whose version?

  125. Poolman Poolman Poolman – we HAVE to go the beach – I think it’s part of being a good Florida citizen :)

    But in all honesty I’m a mountain person – I love my mountains, my whitewater, and my x-country skiing. . .I moved to FL cuz that’s where SO was headed. . . sigh. But even SO says I become a different person as soon as I’m in my mountains. . .more at peace, less frenetic. And the dogs love the mountains much more than the beach. . .I mean, they really can’t chase the whales, can they?

    Okay all – time to hit the sack. . . work calls @ 6AM

  126. Folks…this is my kind of “church”.
    Can I say that?? Glad to have found this place.
    Looking forward to Margaret and Helen’s next post. Good Night to All!

  127. Hi gang, Keith in NM and Poolman,

    Excellent anaylses and analogies in your comments. Some of the best ones yet!

    The economy is in such a mess because of a multiplicity of causes, mostly due to the ingenuity of greed. That always results in a monumental Oops!

    The Obama Administration is hard at work and making progress even if it is not as fast as some would wish. Sheesh!!! Not even seven months yet.

    Whining and blaming don’t go very far or do much to solve problems once we are faced with them.

    I think it is time all of us took stock of our priorities and what is really important. We don’t really need every new gadget that comes out. Let’s slow down and spend more time appreciating everything we DO have!


    Auntie Jean

  128. Edna, welcome. I’m in Phoenix, AZ. We have representation from many of the states and even other countries across the globe. Those near the beach usually rub our noses in the sand, but we still love them.

  129. Edna, Yup, both Jean and I are from Hawaii, although different islands.

    Trolls are irritating mean spirited asshats without reason. We are supposed to ignore them when they make their posts, but sometimes we just have to blast them.

    Yes, Jean, it is a great country.

    And Poolman, I am praying as well as thanking, every day.

  130. Hello and Thank you.
    Does everyone live in Hawaii??

  131. Edna Sorenstandt,

    Welcome to H&M’s parlor. You will LOVE the varieties of pies and teas.


    Auntie Jean

  132. Hi Margaret and Helen and gang,

    Congratulations on your 2 million hits!!!!! I for one, look forward to 3 mil, for now. Maybe 4-5-6……….

    Hope everyone had a wonderful 4th celebration and didn’t eat too much. We did!

    Is this a wonderful and great country or what?

    We are off to our ‘church’, that is the beach; to sit in our chairs in the sand and enjoy the beauty of it all.



  133. Hello to you, Honolulu Sally. Are you really in Hawaii? How wonderful is this world of blogging!
    I could see how one could get hooked!

    I am reading all of Margaret and Helen’s previous posts. My have they been busy!
    I see that I have much to learn, folks. Not sure what a “Troll” is… Oh, well. I’m sure I will learn in time!

  134. Keith in NM….
    intresting reading….
    google ….Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000…..157 Democrats and 133 Republicans voted for the appropriations bill. 51 Republicans and 9 Democrats opposed the appropriations bill.[9] The Senate version passed by unanimous consent. President Clinton signed the omnibus budget bill into law on December 21, 2000 as Pub.L. 106-554…
    also…Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act….On November 4th, the final bill resolving the differences was passed by the Senate 90-8,[12] [13] and by the House 362-57.

    can’t blame it all on the Repubs

  135. Thanks Poolman and Kieth. I agree with what you wrote, though there is a little more to it. Members of both parties put us here. Of course many of us were greedy and thought the good times would never end.

    Farmers lived through this in the seventies and eighties. At first we were told to borrow our way to solvency. When prices were so high empty oil cans sole for $5.00 at farm auctions, our banker tried to pursuade us to buy an over priced farm because it would be worth much more in a few years. We declined, the crash came, and someone put crosses on the court house lawn to commemorate foreclosed farms as in John Melencamp’s song.

    The same banker told me his customers were behaving like cornered rats. I assume many insolvent borrowers were caught in the same position.

    I support some of Obama’s policies. I oppose some. The train analagy is apt. However, if the train is off course, it is our duty to tell the engineer.

    By coincidence my computer was playing “Runaway Train.”

  136. Keith in NM wrote: “The rest we owe to Congress and Wall Street.”

    yuppers. Which is why it’s important for folks to pay attention on the local and state levels, not just the national. And for us non-economics type, to really make the attempt to at least the business section in your local paper. I’m no economist (i mean, really, at least 40% of my food budget is allocated to the critters. . .) but I’ve been able to get a decent understanding of how what Washington does affects me as a small business owner. . . as much as what my local city council decides.

    Keith – thanks for the xplanation – I doubt if I’ll ever get more than a cursory handle, but you’ve given me (us) a good start. . .

    Raji – yes we can take the dogs to beach. We head over to New Smyrna (Canaveral Shores north-end); technically they have to be on-leash but the stretch of beach we go to is relatively deserted and as long as we clean up and don’t let the dogs disturbed the turtles, the rangers are pretty good about it. We also like Captiva but right now time is a factor so wknd jaunts are the order of the day. Looking forward to August and family reunion time in Captiva…

  137. Congratulations to Helen and Margaret. Two million and more to go. Can’t wait for Helen’s take on the SP explosion. Hmm, maybe she planned the fireworks to coincide with the 4th!

    Does anyone else get “big gray squares” when they pull up the blog? Kind of weird as they cover certain posts.

    Poolman, I think you may have the answer. As you said she doesn’t seem to be able to finish a job. Thick skin is a requirement in politics. Of course she also may not have liked Sanford and MJ getting more press than she since she hadn’t been in the news since Letterman :-) I like your posts.

    Keith, you have amazing insight in “soul mate” relationships. I really enjoy reading your posts. You have a compassion for life, don’t you?
    “Fool me once, fool me twice, I’m the fool if it happens thrice” is the way I remember it.

    Greytdog, The only thing I miss about Florida is taking the dogs to the beach. Apparently one can still do that??
    Of course this weekend I would have avoided Daytona Beach but there is always New Smyrna or Melbourne. I personally loved St. Augustine and Flagler.

    Whirled, I agree, MJ died a long time ago.

    Happy Birthday, Granma Katie. Hope it was a great one with lots of fireworks.

  138. Honolulu Sally, thanks for the compliment. I do my best. I agree conservatives are trying to put up roadblocks and use divisive tactics to block Obama’s plans. Some, as you write, is politics. Each side tries to discredit the other for political advantage. The sharks circle and attack at the first sign of weakness. I agree self interest is in play too. Virtually every government program hurts some as it helps others.

    Another factor is principle. Democrats did their best to sabatage our war effort in Iraq. John Murtha described the strategy as the “slow bleed.” Harry Reed declared the war lost, and it took Obama a long time to admit the surge was successful. I assume they were not putting road blocks in Bush’s way to spite the president, but because they believed the war was wrong.

    Similarly, some of the conservative and moderate road blocks also come from principle, the belief that some programs will harm the country. Many conservatives were angry at Bush and said we were spending too much money on the wrong things. Many liberals supported Bush’s Stimulus Bill, so your analogy is imperfect. Of course liberals wouldn’t stand in his way. Remember Bush and the Democratic leaders agreed if we didn’t do something “now’ we were doomed.

    As Hillary Clinton said before the election, we have a duty to oppose our government when we think it is wrong. The opposition is not always fair, but its the way we have played the game since the beginning. Opposition forces our leaders to change and compromise, often for the better. The term is loyal opposition.

    Anti -war and TEA Party protesters are no different. They are attempting to stop what they believe to be harmful policies.

    You may be right about the the ball players’ taking the ball home because they were sore losers. Or you may be wrong. It is too early to tell about Palin. I read she will be speaking in California in August. Maybe she is taking the ball down the court. Or maybe home as you write.

    My wife and I have survived adverse conditions with unpredictable counter intuitive behavior. For example, during the farm recession, I paid our $12,000 property taxes with a credit card because we were flat broke.

    Even people in the next county were gossiping about how one fall, I abandoned our soy beans in October when harvest weather was cold and muddy. I combined them dry in February when temperatures soared to the sixties with less wear on the machinery and myself than the neighbors faced from an October to December struggle.

    Maybe Sarah Palin is doing the equivalent of what we did to survive, or she is going home to sulk. I don’t know. We all will know by this time next summer.

  139. Thanks to Helen and Margaret, and Matt, for this place that is so well worth visiting. And thanks to the many folks who post, mostly with good humor, such excellent information.

  140. Regarding the US economy…

    When you hop on board a runaway train with broken brakes to try to save the train and the passengers, you have to ride it out. If you haven’t been on that rail before, you have no idea what track conditions are ahead and the best you can do is try to maintain control until the grade of the land or the friction of the wheels brings you to a place of safety.

    I am grateful that our current engineer is calm, cool, and collected. I am grateful that he had the desire and fortitude to even board the train to begin with. I would have never done it. Any of you have that desire?

    There are always those on the sidelines that offer their own solution and would rather debate all the options instead of jumping in to help. There are also those on the sidelines that WANT to see the train wreck. There are even some who are busy undermining the track to assure a disaster.

    Where would you fit in? My choice course of action would be prayer. I believe it makes all the difference in governing the unseen forces that are at play here. We all have different talents. Some have never tapped theirs. Some think bitching is a talent and others think a cattle prod is a party favor. Some enjoy making pie, while others only enjoy eating it. Just do what you do best to the betterment of all.

    At least our leader hasn’t aborted HIS post. And he is willing to take all the flack and stand up to the opposition. No whining. No snivelling. In the end, remember it is the journey that counts. The destination is the reward.

  141. Two Wars: The Iraq war was an optional war started with lies. Ultimately, we find out that it was fought to get the oil contracts from Iraq. A couple of trillion later and a big bill in the future for injured soldiers.

    Thanks for the information Keith.

  142. And please, leave UAW and James alone.

    Remember, ‘it takes a village’ to run this place!

    Keith in NM

  143. To read more about derivatives and the risks they pose to an entire economy, check out this site:


    Here’s an article that explains Phil Gramm’s actions and how they led us to where we are today:


    Obviously I’m no expert in these matters, but it’s stuff I keep up with because if fascinates me…. just like keeping up with all you here on this blog fascinates and captivates me!

    Keith in NM

  144. On the economy…. no one really read this one right…. and we can’t blame Bush, as much as I’d like to do so. And we can’t blame Obama…. he just got to the party. I have my own theory as to how we got here…. it’s not an easy read, but follow me here for a moment and see if this sounds plausible…..

    First, the biggest issue that has really hit the economy in the gut is the wild speculation in derivatives…. these are complex financial instruments, more like insurance than anything, where you buy an instrument that insures your investment risk in stocks, oil, oil futures, or any tradable commodity. The twist is that you don’t actually have to own the commodity in which you’re insuring your risk of loss. AIG sold millions of these policies. When the economy took a slight turn south, they were suddenly on the hook for billions in policies they didn’t have the reserves to pay on. Thank Phil Gramm for this…. he inserted the legalization of derivatives in an emergency spending bill one Christmas about nine years ago.

    Next, blame our lack of an energy policy. The huge rise in the price of oil hit every world economy hard… very hard. Our central bank tried to fight the inflation cause by the rise in the price of oil by raising interest rates. All of the sudden everyone with an adjustable rate loan (of ANY kind, mortgate, credit card, etc.) was facing payments much, much higher than ever expected. And on top of that, the increase in the price of oil directly affects the price of everything…. even if if’s not made from oil, oil got it to your door.

    So the rise in the price of oil and the inflation that it caused, as well as the Fed’s effort to battle that inflation by raising interest rates slammed EVERYONE in the face…. suddenly millions were over-extended…. that showed in the markets and AIG was suddenly on the hook for derivative contracts they’d NEVER expected to have to pay out on.

    Derivative contract trading was out-lawed about a hundred years ago…. for good reason. The notion that an un-regulated financial sector could better provide resources to the capital markets (thanks Phil Gramm) backfired.

    The only part of this we can blame on a President is the lack of enough political will to craft an honest energy policy. The rest we owe to Congress and Wall Street.

    Many like to blame irresponsible borrowers. I don’t. We are brain-washed almost from birth that the American ‘dream’ is to own one’s own home. In most of the world just having a home to go to is dream enough, rented or otherwise. It is ingrained in us that if we can’t provide (read own a house) for our families, we’ve failed.

    As I said, it’s a bit confusing but if you think about this for a bit it might make sense to you.

    Keith in NM

  145. James (our other favorite punching bag),

    For this one, I agree with you. It is Obama’s baby.

    But would you agree the conservative asshats are really trying their best to put roadblocks and divisive tactics (fear, secession, special interests, tea freaking parties, etc.) up to STOP Obama and his team from actually winning for all of us?

    Since the “hot” Sarah Palin used basketball as a metaphor, I would compare the asshats in a ballgame as being sore enough losers that they just want to take the ball away from everyone and go home. At least when Bush put through his Stimulus Bill, liberals didn’t act as sore or stand in his way. We just still thought he was dumb and dirty.

    It’s time to pass. Pass Asshats!

  146. greytdog, Bush was also trying to get the economy going again. Its what we pay our governments to do. So to say “at least they are trying to do something to get the economy going again,” is a nonsequitar. It took even longer than eight years to get here. The roots were planted in Clinton’s administration or before.

    That Obama’s administration was forced to admit failure to date had nothing to do with Bush, Clinton or any other former president. It’s Obama’s baby now.

    Corn and the asparagus sound great.

  147. Aloha Edna! I think we love you already!

  148. P.S. I LOVE the term “AssHat”

  149. Hooray for free speech! Freedom from political bullies!

    “Sarah Palin, if you have a problem with me, then sue me. Shannyn Moore will not be muzzled!”


  150. Margaret and Helen make my day! I used to be scared of the internet. My son explained it all to me and showed me this blog. I love it and I love Margaret and Helen. I have learned so much! There have even been times when I knew about things before my husband heard about them on CNN. Thanks to Margaret and Helen!!! I, like the thousands of other fans, can’t wait for the next post. I hope it will be soon.
    Thank you for making my day!!!

  151. UAW, Georgia can say what she wants, and so can you. I actually want to thank you for being the designated punching bag. You are an excellent one – you bounce back, sometimes with even dumb-beller stuff, but you bounce back.

    btw, puhleese don’t equate Bush with Obama. That is like equating Homer Simpson with Albert Einstein. Bush didn’t misjudge an intelligence report – he didn’t read it or it wasn’t in simple enough terms. Obama did misjudge the depth of the economic times, but that is hindsight at this point.

    Fear is also driving the economy down. And WHO do you think is driving Fear?

    I’ll answer for you UAW. It’s the conservative asshats.

  152. okay sunfried brain: in #3, “who’s” should be spelled “whose”. . .

    I am off to a dinner of steamed shrimp in the shell. . . & corn. . . & fresh asparagus & a nice glass of chardonney.

  153. 1) the beach was. . .AWESOME

    2) Congratulations to Margaret & Helen (&Matthew) for striding by the 2mil mark. . .keep on keepin’ on

    3) UAW is not a’tard, just a curmudgeon who’s got a lot on his plate & he’s a good guy (if a bit yank your chains type)

    4) Yes, Biden said they’d misread the economy but at least they’re trying to do something to get the economy going again. Anyone who thinks this administration can reverse in 6 months what took 8 years to accomplish. . .is delusional.

    5) Sarah Palin is ethically, morally, and civics challenged – what egoist really threatens a private citizen on the very day we celebrate this country’s independence from a despotic ruler who outlawed freedom of speech & freedom of assembly?? Only in Palin’s world, only in Palin’s world.

    6) did i mention the beach was. . .AWESOME

  154. Georgia….
    if posting an independent thought means drinking the koolade and agreeing with almost every here it’s not going to happen……like I’ve said before there’s a double standard and if your going to complain if a REP does something wrong then complain when a DEM does the same thing

    Stanford and Edwards(and his love child) for one

    Foley and Barney Frank for another

    didn’t Helen say something about hypocrites….

  155. Georgia…you rock!

  156. Georgia, you must be lovely to be around.

  157. Georgia, UAW Tradesman is right, and by no stretch of imagination, is he a “tard.” He may be wrong in your opinion but it has nothing to do with his intelectual powers.

    Vice President Biden admitted to George Stephanapolis this morning that they had misjudged the economy. Every respected economist did not agree Obama’s plan which was in some ways Bush’s plan would work as expected. A bunch of TEA Party activists demonstrated against both parties partly with the same expressed opinion that the plan would not work as planned.

    I didn’t support the Iraqi invasion when it started, but we won, and Obama is following the strategy Bush set forth. Biden said so this morning.

  158. if I’m a “tard” then so is Biden and the white house…..he’s the one that said THEY misread

  159. Georgia….”you tard”….AAAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!

  160. Congratulations on 2,000,000 and counting, dear Margaret and Helen. What a joy to see you two engaging so many people on all kinds of subjects. Great work and keep keeping on. We love you!!!

  161. To Helen and Margaret,
    Many blessings to you. You bring much joy to many lives with your writings. In my country you would be considered a Guru. We would worship you like a cow.

  162. AND it would be nice to see you post just one independent thought. Just one!!!

    OK. Really. I’m done. I mean it.

  163. And one led us to war. My god you are a real moron. And now I will go take a siesta and forget you ever existed.

  164. He didn’t misread the economy you tard. It wasn’t going to be solved overnight and EVERY respected economic expert agreed that what he did HAD to be done. What a moron you are. You somehow think you fill a void on this site but you really just need to fill the hole in your head.

  165. Happy 2 Million Margaret and Helen. I hope you will continue for another few million because we love you.

  166. congratulations on your 2,000,000+ hits Margret and Helen…keep up the good work….and I’ll keep pointing out that there are asshats on both sides of politics……

    If misjudging an intelligence report = Bush lied..
    What does MISREADING the economy=

    Obama lied??????

    something to think about

  167. Congratulations Margaret and Helen.

    I think your blog is a success! You have great minds and wonderful insights – Thanks.

  168. Hey UAW…how about giving Margaret and Helen a shout out and congratulations on reaching 2 million hits? Maybe thanking them for giving you a place to post all of your nonsense. Just a thought…

  169. “I expect Palin to be a paid talking head of FOX soon.”

    No their ratings are high enough…. I expect msnbc will give her a show….even she could help obberman’s ratings….or beat them

  170. Maybe we all owe David LEtterman a HUGe thank you??? Just sayin’…

  171. For the record, I also think Maureen Dowd is hot. I disagree with her most of the time, but I like her mind.

    I don’t care what Palin will do next. Outside of minor speculation I haven’t a clue, nor does anyone else. I’ll care when we learn more.

    I’ve never eaten wolf. It probably tastes like dog, don’t you think?

    Poolman, you may be right about Palin’s thinner than advertised skin. I wondered about that too.

    I agree Keith. What an irony that both men will also be remembered for gloves, “the gloved one,” and “if the glove does not fit, you must aquit.

  172. For an idea of what Republican strategist extrodinare Carl Rove thinks about Palin’s most recent antics, check this out:


    Keith in NM

  173. TWO MILLION!!!!!!!!

    What is there to say? Way to go? Freakin’ amazing? Or to quote Condaleeza on Katrina, “Nobody could have seen this coming.”?

    Congratulations. I mean it. Really.

  174. Here’s a really funny article on Sanford from salon.com……

    “Please Be Patient While I Try To Fall Back In Love With You”


  175. http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/pccartoons/permalink.asp?artist=breen&date=090704

  176. PalinShutUp ….

    “does she eat the wolves she kills too?

    just wondering”

    I don’t eat the skunks or opossums I hit on the road….can I have your recipes……

  177. TWO MILLION HITS!!!!!

    Happy Happy Margaret and Helen!!!!
    You are the best!!!!! :-)

  178. Michael Jackson was a musical and dancing genius.

    He never had a childhood and he could never just take off and enjoy a beach, mountains or solitude somewhere. That has to have an impact.

    Too bad he had the nose job though. Plastic Surgery was no friend of MJ.

    Even in death MJ is caught up in legal issues. Controversy followed him to his grave.

    I expect Palin to be a paid talking head of FOX soon.

  179. As for Sarah Palin, “How sad that Washington and the media will never understand, it’s about county…” Time after time, her electorate has chosen her to lead them in a variety of offices. Each time she has bailed on them. Her voters have placed their trust in her more than once and each time she bails; character traits such as this are not the traits we seek in elected official we entrust to guide and govern.

    Brings to mind an old adage: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me again, shame on me.

    Keith in NM

  180. re: MJ “choosing” to be white rather than black…

    One of my dearest friends for thirty years now has Vitiligo. He was an olive-complected white boy until afflicted. Spotch by splotch he lost all pigmentation…. his brown eyes are now grey, his dark brown hair now white, as well as eyebrows and lashes. Eddie wore make-up for a short time to hide what was going on… but you knew he was wearing make-up so it “hid” nothing.

    Vitiligo is a life-changing disease….. read back on some of the comments about Sarah Palin’s looks and the comments that those looks inspire, the debate. Our self-images are so caught up in how we look, you can only imagine the inner torment that someone with a progressive, image-altering disease like Vitiligo must endure. Compare it to someone who’s lost their looks to a disfiguring accident, but instead of an instant change one has to endure years of slow change… you’re someone different every day.

    Couple this kind of inner torment with the pressures of celebrity on top of being a survivor of the kind of abuse inflicted by your father. It’s a wonder MJ was able to endure for as long as he did. And it’s no small wonder he sought the lost innocence and acceptance of children.

    Remember, we can’t know what torment boils in someone else’s mind. MJ was not a malicious person. Compare that to OJ. MJ did his best to contribute to society in a positive manner. Compare that to OJ. MJ was about compassion. OJ aggression. Twenty years from now I wonder which we’ll remember.

    Keith in NM

  181. Sarah Palin took the governorship saying she would have an open government. She made it during the election that she should be called out of people felt they had a grievance.

    The reality was quite different. Sarah was vindictive and gave administration positions to her high school class. She did her business on a personal blackberry and denies access to the communication even though it is State Business she was discussing. Those emails are part of open meeting laws open access to her government.

    Palin was a great do as i say, not as I do type person.

  182. “but anyone who thinks he was ‘innocent’ just because he was acquitted (like OJ) is fooling themselves.”

    Well, I for one don’t think he was innocent. I don’t think he was guilty. I was not there, those that were are unreliable as witnesses at best, but there is circumstancial evidence. I’m saying, I simply don’t know for sure. None of us does. I refuse to assume one way or the other when I just don’t know for sure. It’s opinion and speculation. I have faith in our judicial system and believe that if he was guilty, that’s between him and his Maker now. For my part, I thrilled and marveled at his gift for the majority of my life, and know one thing for sure – he was a great, amazing talent who was touched on the shoulder by God, but led a tormented life.

  183. “If indeed his skin was mottled, I find it sad and interesting that he felt the need to make the skin-tone “even” with the lighter tones rather than with his birth-color. Sad that he was (or any one of us is) so dissatisfied with what we are.”

    I agree that he was dissatisfied with who he was, but not being black. I’ve seen pictures of him that rather clearly show where the vitiligo was, and he had more skin that had lost pigment than skin that hadn’t. It clearly was just much easier to go lighter than darker, easier to match and therefore more easily cover the affected skin, which was most of his skin. Not sad at all, just easier.

  184. I think SP just couldn’t take all the pressure and attacks from all sides. As a basketball point guard, she was unprepared for a game of football. I think she needed more time to get her house in order. Lots to dust, dirty laundry to wash and closets to clean. It has been less than a year since she was thrust into the limelight. To go from Wasilla to DC in a few short years was too much for her. She needs more time to get ready for that date. The pirannas can sense weakness and bite. And her skin is not as thick as she would have us believe. And there is the attacks on Trigg and Levi Johnson’s tell all book deal coming down. Time to retreat and regroup. Besides, as others have pointed out, she doesn’t finish what she starts.

  185. Jack:

    My Shih Tzu, Gabby, can string more sentences together!

    Keith in NM

  186. lori:

    As for looks, I think you’re mistaken, I think you’re judging a person’s initial reaction to looks….. we, men AND women are much deeper than that….. please read my post on July 4th, 5:50 pm….. while many/most of us can be swayed by physical attributes on first glance, it’s just a glance and reveals nothing of the heart, mind or soul of the individual inside.

    Keith in NM

  187. Helen, please tell me you saw Sarah Palin’s press conference….that speech was all over the place. Courtney Love could string more sentences together.

  188. To weigh in on her “looks”…. When she first came on the scene and there was all this hub bub about her looks I was surprised because I found her to look like a tramp. I am not much for the day after the prom look. … So I asked my husband if he found her attractive… His answer was she looks like she has been rode hard and put up wet..lol

    But I guess some men like that look and even consider it hot.. lol Whatevr gets your boat a floatin … ;-)

  189. Palin….. Must be that “it” factor she and Obama share that makes her act like a freakin nut case!

    Good lord she is a lesson on eerything NOT to do when persuing a political career.


    Happy Two Million Hits, Ladies!!!!

  191. Sarah Palin on how to deal with tough media coverage

    http://bit.ly/BcxXJ suck it up, buttercup

  192. omg, i luv ‘wasilla snowbilly’ lol!!

    i guess now sp knows what it feels like to be on the other side of ‘defamation’ funny that didnt stop her from doing it to Obama? is this only a free country with free speech until she is the recipient of the negative press?

    waaah waaah

  193. Helen,
    Will Anderson Cooper be reporting live from your home?? TWO MILLION hits….that is HUGE!!!
    Congratulations!!!!! :-)

  194. Happy 2,000,000 Hits!

    PEACE ~ Δ

  195. Helen Philpot, You are very special person. You make us understand America better. That is a good thing and we are thanking you for this always. God smiles on you and your friend Margaret.

  196. I am a huge fan of your work. I admire your wit and wisdom. Long may you live.

  197. And I thought you two would never make anything of yourselves….guess I was wrong.
    Well done, Ladies. Happy 2 Millionth hit!!!
    Now post something great already…..

  198. Can it really be nearly two million hits, Ladies???
    I’ve been here from the start and have enjoyed every single post! You two are the best!!!

  199. 1,999,114 hits so far! 886 more hits needed! Makes our girls 2 in 2 million!

    Happy All!

  200. Congratulations to Margaret and Helen!!!
    Two Million Hits!!!!!
    You two are a National Treasure!!!
    Long may you live!!!!
    We LOVE you!!! :-)

  201. The next time I visit Helen’s parlor, she and Margaret will have over 2 million hits! Congratulations to you both — you are a phenomenal hit! We enjoy EVERY post and always look forward to the next one!

    Happy Independence Day, everyone! Happy 233rd birthday, America!

    And to all our troops here and abroad, our hearts are with you! Stay safe and strong!

  202. From the Shannyn Moore broadcast moments ago a caller from Nebraska, Sarah regarding SP: “The higher a monkey climbs, the more its behind shows”

  203. Almost two million hits!!!!!
    Way to go, ladies!!!

  204. I’m sure all of this Sarah Palin news is making Helen giddy… :-)

  205. Hmm, nobody can investigate these claims or even report that they exist? Oh, she’s sooo guilty. This is gonna be fun. And another one bites the dust.

    Very OT, but a warning…. if you’re going to make sour cherry jelly, make sure first that someone hasn’t THROWN ALL THE LID RINGS AWAY! It’s been an afternoon of kitchen improv. Still had 2 orphan rings, managed to eke out 4 fully sealed jars and one that we’ll just have to eat first. (Aww, such a shame.)

    I’m wondering if it’s true that, eliminating the holidays, most domestic murders happen during canning season. Could we do a study? Something about deadlines, hot days and live steam combine to make it very dangerous to ask when supper will be ready.

    Off to eat my July 4th colcannon with bacon – yum!

  206. I don’t have much time to write. I just finished picking more raspberries ahead of another shower. It stayed in the sixties all day.

    Kieth in NM, I think your BF is lucky to be with you. You can help each other drive the ghosts away. What you wrote was beautiful.

    I don’t know about Sarah Palin’s inner mind or what sort of person she is. Her speeches like other politicians are artifice, so I can’t judge her as a person. She is just attractive. Maybe I wouldn’t think so if I knew her, or maybe I still would. And yes, men are programed to focus on the physical at first. We can be shallow. Maybe superficial physical and personal resemblances to family members add to Palin’s or any person’s attractivness

    I grew up in a family of Sarah Palins. When they were girls, my aunts, my father and they patrolled our ditch bank during floods to keep the neighbors from cutting the dike to relieve pressure from their side of the river. Each had a rifle and was prepared to use it. One aunt was teased because she shot at a shadow. They did farm work like the men. All of them graduated from college too.

    My wife was beautiful at 18 when we met, but it was her mind which hooked me. I knew fifteen minutes after we met, she was the nicest woman I would ever meet. She was prickly and driven, as she said, and she was ‘cuda before the song.

    But underneath she was a sweet lady. Few but I saw that part of her. I like strong women because I am strong, and I would overwhelm a shy mountain flower. My wife would too. A friend from the Janeane forum saw us in California. His first comment was “I can tell you are soul mates.”

    Kieth and the rest, I wish the same happiness for you.

  207. There’s a political cartoon site that I’ve been in love with for sometime:


    There’s a HUGE section of cartoons on Gov. Sanford….. a RIOT…. here’s the direct link to them:



    Keith in NM

  208. And we all know she already completely explained her reasons for leaving office in her speech, like she said. Leave it to the Liberal media to twist her twisted words.

  209. Sophronia, via the Blog Wonkette, quoting a blogger AlaskaGirl “Wasilla Snowbilly”

    Priceless! I love it. I guess the locals know her best. The rest of us have only watched her antics for less that a year. Now she’s a household name like Vagisil.

  210. We could make her spend her entire book advance on legal fees… what fun!

    Keith in NM

  211. howdy all – peeking in before heading out again. . .wondering what Palin would do if every single progressive blogger repeated verbatim every single rumor that was out there flying around like bats on a scent? Would she be so selfabsorbed that she would sue all the liberal bloggers? hmmm….might just have to test that theory – which would mean that she sees bloggers NOT as anonymous people sitting in their parents basement but folks who create CHANGE through discourse.

  212. Hmmmm…. this is from the Associated Press…. sounds like she’s guilty of something…..

    The abruptness of her announcement and the mystery surrounding her plans has fed widespread speculation. But Palin attorney Thomas Van Flein on Saturday warned legal action may be taken against bloggers and publications that reprint what he calls fraudulent claims.

    “To the extent several websites, most notably liberal Alaska blogger Shannyn Moore, are now claiming as ‘fact’ that Governor Palin resigned because she is ‘under federal investigation’ for embezzlement or other criminal wrongdoing, we will be exploring legal options this week to address such defamation,” Van Flein said in a statement. “This is to provide notice to Ms. Moore, and those who re-publish the defamation, such as Huffington Post, MSNBC, the New York Times and The Washington Post, that the Palins will not allow them to propagate defamatory material without answering to this in a court of law.”

    Here’s the link to the full article:


    Keith in NM

  213. via the Blog Wonkette, quoting a blogger AlaskaGirl here is a quote about Palin:

    WIN OF THE AFTERNOON: In the middle of this monster Palin Chaos Theory post, commenter-person Alaska Girl reminds us why Sarah Palin’s latest “I’m gonna take my ball and go home” move is standard Wasilla Snowbilly behavior: “She didn’t finish her term as mayor, stepping down to run for Lt. Governor. She didn’t finish her term on the petroleum board ethics panel, she resigned in protest and then ran for Governor. She doesn’t want the office, she just likes running for office. She doesn’t want (can’t actually) accomplish anything, she just wants to talk about it.”

    And here’s to you Margaret and Helen for providing a forum for us all to comment in, and in which we find many like minded good souls. Happy 4th everyone.

  214. James: You should have caught me in my ‘party’ days! Unfortunately those days lasted way too long… took me decades to realize they were an escape from dealing with being routinely molested by a cousin for nearly two years in my early teens. In those days there were no SSRI’s or PTSD diagnosis. Luckily I figured it all out on my own. Now I help my BF with his combat-related PTSD from the first Gulf War. Mine was small potatoes in comparison.

    This is interesting stuff. Guys, gay or straight are ALWAYS initially wowed by looks. But I don’t know one (of either persuasion) that has had a long-term relationship based on looks. It’s a good heart, a good mind, a smile and a good meal that’ll hook any man. We’re all little boys at heart. We want somebody to take care of and somebody to take care of us.

    I see all sorts of couples that look odd together…. one is obviously much better looking than the other. But I’m sure, given the opportunity to get to know them both they’d generally be on equal ground.

    My other half and I make just such a couple. I’ve always been called a ‘pretty boy’ (if one can be called that at 52, but honestly I look more like 35) and look somewhat younger than my BF who is almost ten years younger. He’s kinda rough looking, short, a bit over weight, red hair cut in one of those high and tight Marine cuts, but he has a sweet, wholesome heart and if you could see the little-boy twinkle in his eyes when he talks about planes or trains you’d melt just like I do!

    We’re only shallow at first…. but given the opportunity of time we do get it right! And though I can’t speak for the opposite sex, I’m sure it works much the same.

    Then there’s Rush…. he’s ugly to the bone. Newt looks like the lizard for which he was named. Sarah does look like a Barbie doll, but then Barbie was made out of plastic, right? Intelligence is SEXY! That’s why our President and First Lady are good looking…. they got it goin’ on inside their heads!

    Lord, this is all too deep for a Holiday!

    Keith in NM

  215. Happy 4th Margaret and Helen!!!!
    We love you!!!!!

  216. Donna, I appreciate your comments about Michelle. She seems beautiful because what we perceive about her is coming sincerely from her soul. It also doesn’t hurt that she has a good sense of her own style.

    As to SP, not sure about her style. She bought so many expensive clothes when she could, perhaps, because she is insecure? Or maybe she thought she could get away with it?

    I didn’t like her speech at the Repub convention. So many zingers, so little purpose. I reallly don’t like her. I do think she looks really good, except in some close ups I have seen; then somehow she looks sort of hard.

    Like you, I deeply admire Michelle.

  217. Elvis had the same plan…
    Good luck with that Michael…


    This is my theory….Michael Jackson is not dead…the drug found in his home is a strong sedative…he was put into a VERY deep sleep…all his big plan….the news spread world wide that he has died….all is going as planned…this tuesday at the “memorial service”….he JUMPS UP and performs!!!! BEST COME BACK IN HISTORY!!!!!

  219. does she eat the wolves she kills too?

    just wondering

  220. that’s right HS

    wish I could take credit for this

    ‘Let her act maverickey by leaving the governorship and working on her foreign policy ie sitting in her living room staring at Russia as Putin rears his head up and flies overhead’

  221. She jogs, she hunts, she fishes, she eats what she catches. There is a lot to admire in Sarah Palin. She’s just not good as a leader who cares about her constituents. Not focused on doing what is right, instead being focused on the brass ring.

    Michelle Obama is not my (IMO based on looks only) idea of a beauty, but she is beautiful to Barack Obama. And THAT is beautiful.

  222. Honolulu Sally, back to the firecracker stuff…

    I remember New Years our neighborhood had strings of firecrackers from house to house. When lit it was loud and smoky and kind of a madness with all us kids running around. I had a friend pop one right behind me, and I still suffer hearing damage in one ear since that time. When we moved to Mokuleia we lived on the beach near the polo club. There were parties with bonfires on the beach and thousands of firecrackers. I used to go out the next day and collect all the ones that didn’t pop. We were allowed to through them in the firering, but not hold them and light them. I recall one occasion where my dad caught me lighting the short fuses off of the coals left from the bonfires and throwing them. I got in big trouble that day as he kicked my butt all the way back home. Typical boy behavior, I suppose.

  223. im not saying she doesnt jog

    Palin Jogging

    what im saying is that it seems that for that photo op she may have been wearing hose

  224. whoops. “Face lift” My bad. (although that may have been Freudian. My sainted mother used to say you end up with the face you deserve).

  225. Spanx can do amazing things. meow, meow.

    I’m betting a bad face life is in her not so distant future. And I do not care if I am being superficial. She’s a wench.

  226. PoolMAN, I tend to agree about your “guy” statement and being dumb as nails much of the time, especially when it comes to good looking women.

    Jury is out if Sarah Palin is wearing pantyhose. Possible except for the section below the knees, and where did she get that even tan? I do see definite beauty shop hair streaks, turkey neck (thanks Donna), short legs in proportion to torso, fake camera smile, and poor photo composition (background clutter). I also see an amazing body bounce back from pregnancy and birthing for a woman in her 40s and 4th child.


  227. poolman, enlarge the photo

    compare it to the arms

    enough said

  228. Donna, It is the opposite with me. Sarah looks good until she starts to talk. Then the pit bull with lipstick thought overpowers any hint of sexuality. But truly some guys like that “down home barefoot and pregnant charm” that she exudes.

    Michelle Obama is attractive, but not “knockout” attractive. Your are right though about her persona and character that really shines and gives her a greater appeal. She shines from the inside out, whereas sp shines most on the outside.

  229. Honolulu Sally, do you see panty hose in that picture that Keith posted? I didn’t read it that way. I just thought that she had a nice tan and had moisturized. But you ladies know all the tricks. Us guys just look at the package and smile – dumb as nails much of the time.

    M&H should hit 2 mil by this weekend for sure. pretty exciting stuff.

  230. And I am not budging on this! She has bad hair, bad skin, and is not aging well at all. Without all the stylists and expense, she is not particularly attractive. And when she speaks…..yuck.

    Now, I have to draw a contrast. In October, I went to a small fundraiser where Michelle Obama spoke. It was in a private home and, when she walked in, my reaction was “oh, she looks like Michelle Obama.” Pleasant looking but no big deal.

    She started to speak and in a few minutes, I thought “huh–she really is pretty, isn’t she?” And by the time she finished talking–no notes, obviously no teleprompter, taking questions from the group, I thought she was one of the most beautiful women I’d ever seen. Seriously. And I wasn’t the only one who’d had exactly that reaction. No, she doesn’t have great features. But her warmth and humor and self-deprecation and style make her a total knockout.

    Palin strikes me as exactly the opposite–someone who, with all sorts of makeup and lighting, from a distance, or photographed by a professional, can look attractive in a posed, artificial sort of way. But the minute you get her into a small group or a one-on-one or anything approaching a genuine encounter, she’s a cheap looking woman with a bad neck and marionette lines. meow.

  231. Off the subject, H&M blogsite is less than 2,400 hits from hitting 2 million!

  232. UAW, nothing’s wrong with a high school diploma and college, nor a pretty good financial statement, but that is not my definition of dumb.

    Dumb is different things to different people. To me, he’s good looking and dumb. You might say the same thing about Marilyn Monroe (i.e. dumb blonde), but Joe DiMaggio would have disagreed. Some of the very disappointed Palin/McCain supporters think Obama is dumb.

    It was a mean statement but I keep remembering Greta Van Stussomebody’s interview with him about how he feels about being called the “First Dude” and his nice but rather dumb answers. It could be though, that it was her stupid (matter of opinion) repetitive questions made him seem dumb and that he is actually smarter than he sounds. He is evidently head over heels in love with Sarah Palin, and that is a good thing.

    btw, I don’t think you are dumb at all. I think you are very good at making ripples on the water.

  233. PalinShutUp…..
    “what jogger do you know wears panty hose?”
    I can do better than that…what football player wears panty hose??????Joe Namath

  234. honolulu sally….
    so Todd is dumb…..
    what’s wrong with a high school diploma and some collage…..and
    “Financial statements filed in 2007 show that Palin earned $92,790 from BP and fishing.”
    wish I was that dumb!!!!!

  235. James, even though I don’t like Sarah Palin because of what she believes is absolutely right (thus everyone else is absolutely wrong), I also think she is very beautiful.

    She has always had a preoccupation with beauty. Her makeup, hair, clothes, shoes, smile are carefully orchestrated every day, and to maximum advantage.

    When I first saw her on TV, I thought that she looked wonderful. This was my fashion design degree kicking in. Her speech was excellent. John McCain and his wife Cindy looked like they were backups for her and generations behind.

    It did bother me that she brought her whole dang family along everywhere. It meant campaign for mommy first, family later. Baby Trig was only months old. Her hubby Todd was good looking but dumb as nails.

    Her beauty is truly just skin deep. Under that is a very ambitious, deceiving, ego maniac without a heart for the lesser folk.

    It is an unfortunate reality that people are judged based on their looks rather than their hearts. And for many pecker based attractions, they can’t see the forest for the trees.

    Oh well, that’s why we have wise folks like Margaret and Helen that open up their parlor to this diverse group of opinion spinners and information gurus.

    Thanks, All, for the latest information and my source for news, entertainment, and companionship.

  236. whirled peas, a few more notes to ponder

    while they were ‘being held against their will’ the mother placed several calls to her boyfriend from her cell phone, why didnt she dial 911?

    ‘During the month her family was in residence at Neverland, the woman came and went numerous times, often without her children.’

    ‘While they often provided investigators with very specific accounts of Jackson’s wrongdoing, the boy and his family are uniformly hazy when it comes to exact dates and times of these alleged transgressions, which could tend to undermine aspects of their expected future testimony.’

    they claimed there were no watches or calendars in Neverland so they couldnt keep track of dates and times when they were allegedly ‘held against their will’ yet there was a clock so big that helicopters could fly over and tell the time, in addition, it is claimed that MJ gave the boy a watch for Christmas

    ‘right before the family’s supposed imprisonment began.’(??)

    ‘….During the course of an August 2003 police interview, the boy alternately said that Jackson molested him “less than five times,” “a total of five times,” and “about seven times,” according to a law enforcement account of the Q&A. Based on the December 2003 criminal complaint, it appears prosecutors settled on five….’

    ‘…when Jackson’s indictment was unsealed four months later, the number of molestations claimed by the child had been reduced to two.’

    ‘In police interviews, the woman told of her disenchantment with Jackson and his aides, claiming that they broke promises to place her children in private school and to purchase a house and an apartment’

  237. Donna, I think what ‘they’ are looking at is below the neck LOL!!

  238. Donna, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree she is starting to show her age. Tom Becka an Omaha talk show host planned to confront Governor Palin with points of disagreement before his radio show. He rode with her from the airport to the radio station, and all he could think was “She is hot!!” Becka is not alone.

    Susan in CT, kayaking sounds like fun. We will be watching fireworks by a lake as we eat pizza and drink pop. It is cloudy after heavy rain. I hope the low clouds stay to reflect fire works light to the ground.

  239. Donna and Susan. Trust me. Sarah is attractive and has sex appeal. But that is really all she has. Oh and an 11mil book deal.

  240. IMHO Palin is very slick-looking, but she looks to me like a really mean woman. And I thought that before I ever heard that she’d been called “Barracuda” in high school.

    As a straight woman, I’ve always had a hard time knowing (or understanding) which men fine which women sexy. So it goes……..

  241. Susan is in Martha’s Vineyard for a few days, just came back from kayaking on a Great Pond. AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 40 DAYS, IT’S SUNNY AND DRY! Tonight there will be a parade and fireworks.

  242. James–”hot?” eeyew. She’s weird looking. That poofed up hair which probably is stiff with spray. The tatooed lips and eyeliner. The meanlooking expressions. The turkey wattle neck. Sorry–I’m married to a “normal male” who thinks she’s not in the least attractive.

  243. ps, anyone notice the ‘fab’ photo of sp posing with the flag, is that supposed to be before she went for a jog? what jogger do you know wears panty hose?


  244. anyway, that’s not what I came here for, I came to wish everyone a wonderful holiday

  245. whirled peas, I will be the first to tell you, I cant stand Garagos but please do not equate what OJ did with what MJ was accused off

    OJ KILLED two people in a hineaus way, left children without their mother and parents without their son and daughter

    like i posted previously the mother took a $$PAY OFF$$

    if I were the parent of a child who’d been sexually abused there would be no pay off in the world that would stop me from doing all that I could to have the SOB jailed, locked away so he couldnt harm any other child

    the mother was CONVICTED on welfare fraud

    to me, something doesnt smell right and that link to the smoking gun you posted shows no FACTS only a bunch of well crafted assumptions, gossip, rumors….

    also this ‘conspiracy to imprison her family at Neverland in the wake of the February 2003 broadcast of “Living with Michael Jackson,” sounds like a bunch of BS to me as well, if this were true, why did the son sit there talking to the camera? why didnt they ask for help??? BS BS BS

  246. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/sarah-palin-turns-pro_b_225633.html

    Paul Begala wrote this article about Palin’s speech. Here are a couple of quotes:

    “It was an almost impossible mission, but in resigning from office with 17 months to go in her first term, Sarah Palin has made herself the bull goose loony of the GOP.”

    “I’m no latter-day Strunk & White, just a guy who was struck by Palin’s spectacularly rambling and infantile prose. It bespeaks a rambling and infantile mind.”

    The article, unlike the resgnation speech, is well written and fairly short. I enjoyed it. You might too.

  247. Kieth in NM, as Bill Murray said in Stripes, “I’d like to party with you.” If you are intelligent white trash, maybe I am too– just two “wild and crazy guys.”

  248. Yes Keith, I agree they have been entertaining. And you’re right, they are the “inclusive” party. After all, they have crossed over all the lines.

    Enjoy your BBQ and family. Happy 4th!

  249. Honolulu Sally, I was just reporting what I read. Conservative and liberals support many “think tanks.” They conduct research, write position papers and sometimes books. The blogger wrote two reps from one were in Alaska during the past week or so.

    None of us knows yet, why she is quitting, but Palin certainly has attracted attention to herself hasn’t she? Her soon to be departure from office will make Alaska someone elses’ problem. For all we know, she wants to make a lot of money and follow Nixon’s strategy.

    If I were her, I would have stayed in office until the end. Its what she contracted for when she ran for office. But I’m not she, thank God. Imagine her with my beliefs. Scary.

    I’m not worrying about her because I have no clue what is going on, and she will not control my weekend with guessing games.

    My interest in her is as a politician who might help dislodge other politicians with whom I disagree, not to see her hold office. Palin is too conservative for me. As normal red blooded male, I think she is hot. Ha!

    Ancient Chinese saying: “He who excercises no forethought, but makes light of his opponents is sure to be captured by them.” It is true, and I have been on both sides of the saying. I think the attention she is getting supports my opinion that if she wants to be in politics she will be until a metaphorical stake passes through her heart.

    I like your choice of George Clooney. He is one of the few modern actors who retains traces of the public aura forties stars were noted for. He was in Omaha recently to make a movie. By all accounts, he was a nice man. Down time at Epply Air Field found him pretending to search for luggage with newly arrived air line passengers. They loved it after they realized who he was. Smooth and classy.

    You could be right about Reagan. I do know JFK had a female following.

    I like you too.

  250. greytdog: am I jealous or what? the beach? those are few and far between here!

    I just read some interesting comments on salon.com….. one of my favorite places to play….. the GOP — Bill Kristol to be exact — said, “If I had to guess we just saw the opening statement of the 2012 campaign.” Maybe, but it doesn’t speak much for the level of intelligence of the choices in the GOP.

    Actually, I’m somewhat grateful to the GOP this summer….. with all the re-runs on network television, it seems they’ve made it their party platform to entertain the American public this summer….. and doing a damn good job to boot! We’ve got sex, drama and political intrigue! I guess they are an ‘inclusive’ party after all!

    Have a safe 4th all.
    Keith in NM

  251. http://www.seattlepi.com/fun/mallard.asp

  252. President Obama’s
    Weekly Address 7/4/09

    On the 4th of July,
    Overcoming Americas Challenges


  253. Keith that’s from her recent interview in Runner’s World – the interview where she claimed she could beat Obama in a marathon (bwahahaha). And AK bloggers and others were very quick to point out that you simply do not lean on the flag – that, under the US code or something, act is considered a desecration of the flag. . .things that make u go hmmmm

    Take care all! We’re heading off to the beach for the weekend (puppers are excited cuz they’re going for a RIDE IN THE CAR)

  254. Native Issues: The villagers are in as bad of shape as they were last year at this time as far as getting enough salmon to sustain themselves during the winter. Starvation next winter is a possibility and Palin has done nothing to help.

    I hope Gov Parnell will actually have real ideas to help the villages. Palin has been terrible for the villages and villagers.

    Wish everyone a wonderful 4th of July. I am in rural Nevada.

  255. There’s a fabulous pic of Palin on gay blog towleroad.com…. here’s the link:


    the caption was ‘all shoed up and no place to run’

    I like, ‘the new face of GOP famly values’

    Keith in NM

  256. Right now due to overloaded servers, alternative site for Mudflats is http://mudflats.wordpress.com/

    Several AK bloggers are guest-posting at DailyKos & HuffPo

    Shannyn Moore will have a special Holiday show livestreaming this afternoon w/ AKM as guest commentator

    Anonymous Bloggers’ Ann Strongheart addresses the issues facing Native Alaskans and how Palin’s departure throws everyone into more limbo while trying to get ready for winter.

  257. Palin quit to make money is my guess. There are some questions about legal issues regarding the house in Wasilla. check out Mudflats.com.

    In the end: Sarah will get her 7 million + for the book. She will be paid to be a talking head on Fox and maybe she can make Dancing with Stars.

    I do not believe that she will spend more time being mom to her children.

    Money, money, money is what it is all about.

  258. NPR reports that money is FLOWING in to Palin’s PAC.

  259. The MJ I knew died a long time ago, but anyone who thinks he was ‘innocent’ just because he was acquitted (like OJ) is fooling themselves.

    Out of the mouths of babes…


  260. Can’t think of better news to read on Independence Day that that of Sarah Palin’s resignation.

    Congratulations to all the Alaska wedgies out there.

    (Now I’ll scroll back and see what others have said about this surprising choice.)


  261. Poolman,

    Firecrackers are still a big deal. Not so much for the Fourth of July (although people still love to pop) and the shopping centers and communities do put on a good aerial show.

    Our New Year’s Eve is a whole different ballgame. People pop those long loud 5000, 10000 balls of firecracker as well as anything that smokes, makes noise and sparks. It kind of all started with the Chinese philosophy that burning money at the start of the New Year would bring fortune and luck, thus burning red paper firecrackers that symbolized burning money. Costco sells huge packs of assorted fireworks for fifty to hundreds of dollars, and our favorite discount stores sell cartloads of fireworks to eager customers.

    It gets so bad, all of the islands are hovering with smoke, and if our winds are not blowing, the smoke lasts for hours. It’s nuts. People with asthma and breathing problems suffer. My dogs bark and bark at each pop and sizzle until they are so exhausted and the tranquilizer kicks in.

    Every year they talk about banning fireworks entirely, and then the legislators bring up the religious (bullshit) traditions, etc.

    Illegal aerials seem to be more common and plentiful as time goes by. This past New Year’s Eve I watched from our balcony the constant show of aerials and listened to the sirens of the fire trucks.

    It sounds horrible, but I really do love it. It is part of my childhood and tradition, crazy though it is.

  262. Happy 4th of July all! Watch those crackers!

    When I was a boy in Hawaii, the fireworks were a very big deal, I think primarily due to all the oriental influence. Is it still that way?

  263. Mahalo Jean!

    Sorry to be posting again (and again) but I just finished watching Sarah Palin’s resignation speech. Whoa! It was a doozey! She kept saying how she has explained WHY she is resigning, but I really didn’t understand why. Why was it?

    She kept saying it was because she doesn’t believe in politics as usual. WTBleep? Is that a reason and an explanation?

    It MAY be that her Scientologist mentor (Greta Van Strunsomeone’s husband) has provided her a plan and a pass into their society. It may be that those “real Americans” who organized the Boston Tea Party are now organizing their Declaration of Independence and their revolution.

    It’s been a very topsy turvy few weeks.

  264. Hi gang and Grandma Katie,

    Happy,happy birthday, Grandma Katie!!!! And many more.

    I hope everyone has a wonderful and safe 4th of July celebration. If you must set off fireworks yourselves, try to keep all your fingers!


    Auntie Jean

  265. PS Grandma Katie, Happy b-day. Love you without meeting you.

  266. Sheez! Go away for a few hours and the news hits the fans!

    James, “I read she was offered a job with a think tank, and she plans to heavily promote her book next year.”

    You were joking right? A think tank? A THINK tank? Even IF that was true, what about fulfilling a responsibility of governership?

    I like you, but I still think you need to check your pecker at the door.

    Although, if I put myself in your frame of mind, and say a hunk like George Clooney were to run for office, I might actually vote for him because my female equivalent of a pecker thinks he is FINE. Maybe that’s how Reagan won for my mother’s generation.

    Well, as we say in the islands, “Aloha to you Sarah Palin.” Or, as my girlfriend formerly from Texas would say, “Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.”

    I still hope she gets to keep her Jimmy Choo shoes.

  267. Fireworks outside have calmed down a bit so off to walk the puppers. Everyone,have a very safe and wonderful holiday celebrating our Independence! Grandma Katie – Happy happy Birthday!!! And long may she wave!

    ‘Night one and all.

  268. Would love to be a fly on the wall in Helen’s house tonight. . . . can’t wait for M&H’s next post. . .but with the holiday weekend & family probably in town, won’t be until next week . . .sigh.

  269. HoneyJo, Hear! Hear!

    If we did not have the erosion of family, but rather 100% support of family, as was intended, much of this would be moot. IMO

  270. Coming in late on this discussion, didn’t get to read all the posts, wanted to jump in so excuse me if I repeat something someone else has said, but….

    “And with his constant “whitening” he offers himself as the butt of jokes….. not really fair, but so is life…..”

    I must say, it’s not just unfair, it’s ignorant. He did not deliberately “whiten” himself because he wanted to be white. Vitiligo is very disfiguring and to be blunt, very gross to look at. If you’ve never seen it up close on someone, then I don’t think you can really understand how disfiguring it is. And it happened to someone who already had serious, SERIOUS self image and self esteem issues, and even identity issues. Once the pigment started to fade out in larger and larger patches, he really had no choice but to lighten what dark skin was left, or look very very disfigured.

    Second, I think it’s interesting how the whole Michael Jackson child molestation/death penalty arguments go together. Michael Jackson was acquited of ALL charges. If we still insist he was guilty, then we don’t trust our judicial system very much, do we? And if we are that distrustful of it, then why the hell are we killing people who are found guilty of capital crimes? We don’t think a jury can possibly get it wrong in these cases? How stupid is that?

    The difference between 33 weeks old and 20,300 weeks old is that the latter can survive outside the mother’s womb, and therefore is legally deemed a “person.” A fetus is not legally a “person” until it takes its first independent breath, and therefore cannot have the legal rights of a “person.”

    I also wanted to throw in a little about the HUGE hypocricy of pro-lifers who talk about women, like these women get themselves pregnant, and don’t deal with men at all. Like Mike Hucabee saying he has councelled thousands of women regarding abortion. Well, who’s counseling MEN, telling them how wrong and immoral it is to slip GHB into a girl’s drink and then have sex with her while she’s unconscious? Who is telling young men how wrong and immoral it is to rape a woman? 10 years ago an 11 year old Brazilian girl was raped and got pregnant and her doctor said she could die if she tried to carry to term because she was so small. The Catholic churc took her in and basically put her in a guilded cage and made sure she carried to term, but they NEVER said one WORD against the man who raped her. I go to a website regularly where people talk about relationship problems and issues, and within the last year, at least three women came there to say they were pregnant but their boyfriends were not ready for fatherhood so laid down the ultimatum that these women must get abortions or they would leave them. With many tears, heartache and regret, all three women had abortions to keep their boyfriends from leaving them. Why isn’t anyone taking young men aside telling them how wrong THAT is? Why does the pro-life movement insist on villifying only women when it takes a woman AND a man to get pregnant, and it takes BOTH to fail to such a degree that the baby’s life ends before it begins by abortion.

    I do believe that being anti-choice and pro-death penalty is deeply hypocritical, but I don’t see the same thing with being pro-choice and anti death penalty. I think abortion is a horrible tragedy, but I know that it’s a huge huge traumatic thing for a woman to choose. I think it’s ridiculous when the conservative right says “she kills her baby because it’s ‘inconvenient or just an interruption.” Why is a baby a miracle, the hugest, most life altering thing a person will ever experience when it’s wanted, but “just a minor inconvenience” when it’s not wanted? An unwanted pregancy has the power to completely derail a woman’s whole life possibly forever. Morally, I’m against abortion, I’m actually what I like to call “comprehensively pro-life” which means, if I am giving myself the right to insist that a woman bring a baby to term, then it becomes MY responsibility to provide for her and her child since she obviously cannot, or she wouldnt’ want to get rid of it in the first place. I want more tax dollars to go to education and job training for single mothers, day care for their kids while they finish school and job train and work, stronger laws to help young women collect money and garnish wages from the deadbeat dads, more tax dollars to make adoption much easier and much much less expensive and more tax dollars for more social workers and more social programs to make sure these kids are being taken care of. It’s just plain bone-headed dumb to insist someone bring a child into the world that they don’t want and then say “ok, now you must become a totally different person, change your whole personality and poof become someone you are not and suddenly care about the health and welfare of this child!” C’mon.

    And one last thought, I don’t mind the ad nauseum coverage of Michael Jackson’s death. If it stops one person from abusing their child, one person from abusing pain killers or powerful sleeping aids, one person from disconnecting from their family in favor of leeching sycophants, one parent from thoughtlessly turning their child over to a virtual stranger just because (s)he has money, one person from setting themself up to be taken advantage of by unscrupulous people who would love to blackmail you, then it’s worth it.

    He was such an amazingly gifted entertainer, and he was my generation’s Elvis. I’m sadder than I could have anticipated being at his untimely and unnecessary passing, and I will miss his work, and grieve for the peace and happiness and acceptance and a true, emotionally intimate connection with another person who truly cared about him that he never found in this life.

  271. I just knew this would be tearing through the posts tonight. The first thing I thought of when I read she was resigning was scandal! So, there are rumors of indictments coming. Did anyone read her speech? Blather. Really, she doesn’t give a good reason for resigning, blaming the media hounding her and having the state pay for her defense.

    Do you suppose that she thinks that by resigning she can stop the investigation?

    Weird. Seems like being the gov. would give her more power to fight the indictments.

    Rick Sanchez has floated that she might be pregnant!

  272. From The Brad Blog:
    “Okay, I’ve now been able to get independent information from multiple sources that all of this precedes what are said to be possible federal indictments against Palin, concerning an embezzlement scandal related to the building of Palin’s house and the Wasilla Sports Complex built during her tenure. Both structures, it is said, feature the ‘same windows, same wood, same products.’ Federal investigators have been looking into this for some time, and indictments could be imminent, according to the Alaska sources.”
    URL: http://www.bradblog.com/

  273. I LOVE this one… on CNNPolitics.com, “A spokeswoman for Sarah Palin blamed the swarm of ethics complaints against the Alaska governor for Friday’s surprise announcement that she would be leaving office by the end of the month.”

    Damn…. that’s one bright spokeswoman…. wonder if she’d consider running? !!!!

    Keith in NM

  274. Alaska bloggers are burning the wires

    Whirled Peas – that’s the biggy. Apparently the feds have been looking at her for embezzlement. . . and the indictments are expected some time this month. No wonder she’s been desperate to raise money for her legal defense fund. The ethics complaints were red flags that the feds finally started paying attn to – seems the Alaskan bloggers have been beating that drum long before SP made the national scene – it just all sort of tumbled together because the woman just is totally and completely ethically bankrupt
    For more info:http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/6105

  275. James…. it sounds like you’ve been to one of my brother’s (I have two) weddings (three each)!

    Actually, the youngest brother only married white trash once, the middle marriage, but the other brother did it for his first and third…… last we heard the third was a “dancer” in Austin, TX….. she’s not made contact with their son since he became a teenager and he’ll be 20 in December.

    So, come to think of it…. maybe I’m (intelligent) white trash! If so, I should be having a hell-of-a-lot more fun!

    Keith in NM

  276. Happy Fourth and birthday Grandma Kate!! Now, I’m gone for the night.

  277. I read she was offered a job with a think tank, and she plans to heavily promote her book next year.

    We have storms coming, and I like them more than politics, so au bientot for tonight.

  278. Great to hear from Grandma Katie!!!!! It has been a while. Happy Fourth!!!! :-)

  279. Werner, Sarah has a lot of time left. Assuming she wants the job, she could wait twenty years.

    She doesn’t have a lot of money, and she has a chance to get rich. We know Bill Clinton charges a fortune for his speeches. Sarah may not be in his league, but public speaking would be lucrative.

    If the rumor of future indictment is true, jail time wouldn’t necessarily stop her. E.Gordon Liddy did pretty well after he left prison. Who knows? I don’t.

  280. I had not been onthe computer all day untila little whie ago. and what is the first thing I saw? The wonderful news that Palin is resigning! Wow! How do you ALaskans feel? I can only hope that there is some big scandal brewing.

    Happy Furth of JUly everyone. Just wish you were all near to invite you t o my birthday party on Sunday.

  281. sorry for the multiple posts

    …and it would be a real pitty if Sarah couldn’t get back on her feet until 2012, it woulda made things so much more easy for Obama…….

  282. Poolman, since it is PalinShutUp, I’ll slide a little toward white trash, but not much. She is right that white trash can have money.

    In return, she will have to put up with another of my stories. The white trash talk makes me think of the brother of the groom who showed us the wonderful tattoo of a mountain range he got while he was in prison. It was almost like a painting.

    The wedding was delayed two hours because we had to wait for the best man to make bail to get out of jail. The night before he defended his boss with a sword when someone hit on her in a bar. His boss threw a beer bottle at someone, and a melee started.

    The matron of honor hit on me, and she must have been too drunk to see I was old enough to be her father. She hit on a lot of people that night.
    The groom and his brothers teased each other until they began to wrestle at the reception and crashed into a table.

    I agree Poolman that lighter skin carries more cachet with blacks, or it did when I was in the service. My friends talked about it. Talk of the Nation also discussed the role of skin color and status. I’m not going to second guess Jackson either. He made a lot of good music which will be played for years.

  283. Hi gang,

    Last one for the weekend. I’ve gotta get busy!

    I can hardly wait for Helen and Margaret’s post on this one. They will blister up cyberspace!!!!!


    Auntie Jean

  284. Greytdog

    ….from twitter: “Lt Gov Andre Bauer (SC) called Lt Gov Sean Parnell (AK) and asked “How the hell did you do that”…..

    Twitter on, twitter on!


    (last post got pulled for what ever reason)

    Bob , check above, that post wasn’t from me, some asshat somehow spoofed my login including Avatar, I changed my password, let’s see if it i’ll help

  285. Hi gang and Secret Talker,

    Since you asked, Secret Talker, out of curiosity I Googled and saw the trailer of “The Third Jihad”. I think it is a disgusting piece of radical propaganda. Sort of like some of the vicious e mails we got before and after the election along the lines of race, ethnicity, religion, etc. They seem to be circulating once again.

    There have always been fanatics of every stripe who spend their time making lots of noise. Unfortunately, there are a FEW naive and/or stupid people who listen and take to heart what they see and hear.

    It is similiar to, “ALL Russians are EXACTLY like Ivan the Terriable and always will be. ALL Christians are like the Grand Inquisitor of the Inquisition and always will be. ALL Germans are like Hitler and always will be. ALL Muslims are like Ben Ladin and always will be. Or how about, ALL Jews are like Madoff and always will be.

    Bull s**t!!!!! Bull s**t, bull s**t, bull s**t and more bull s**t!!!!!!!!!

    Anyone with any sense at all would pay no attention whatsoever to that nonsense. I think society at large is growing up and smarter than that. I hope that answers your question on what my opinion is.


    Auntie Jean

  286. Greytdog

    ….from twitter: “Lt Gov Andre Bauer (SC) called Lt Gov Sean Parnell (AK) and asked “How the hell did you do that”…..

    Twitter on, twitter on!


    (last post got pulled for what ever reason)

    Bob , check above, that post wasn’t from me, some asshat somehow spoofed my login including Avatar, I changed my password, let’s see if it i’ll help

  287. Greytdog
    ….from twitter: “Lt Gov Andre Bauer (SC) called Lt Gov Sean Parnell (AK) and asked “How the hell did you do that?”…..

    Twitter on Gal, twitter on!


  288. oh please, monkey shoes or not, SP is white trash, you can take the girl out of the trash but you cant take the trash out of the girl :)

    poolman, trust me, Im not gloating

  289. James, could you accept 1 degree away from white trash for sp, or do you want to hold your cards.

  290. Michael was all about getting everyone to like him and accept him, IMO. Lighter skinned people have been historicly more acceptable in our society. Why would you not try to make yourself more acceptable?

    I grew up with the Jackson 5 and have always admired MJ. He is a great talent. His presence will be missed. We can’t judge him. Only he can attest to his own life.

  291. PalinShutUp, I still accept Keith’s version of white trash. Berta’s family on Two and a Half Men are what I regard as white trash. The husband-wife meth manufacturers in one episode were definitely white trash.

    Are you sure you want SP to kiss your ass before you know where her mouth has been? I don’t get a chance to say that very often.

    I am a food and talk show gormand. I don’t listen to Rush all of the time, but sometimes. Once in a while, he says something stupid about global warming and I have to change stations to save the radio.

    One of my e friends from the Janeane Garafalo site got me to promise to listen no more than two days a week.

    I used to listen to Jim Hightower and Al Frankin on Air America, Janeane Garafalo and the others too. I even listen to Coast to Coast and Art Bell if I’m up late enough. I also listen to NPR’s Talk of the Nation.

    Poolman, my first guesses were future indictment or talk shows. Assuming the first, she can issue a hit CD titled “I’m in the Jail House Now.”

    The second could make her very rich, as we know. Richard Nixon lost to Pat Brown and during his press conference he said “you won’t have Nixon to kick around any more.” Who knows what will happen with Governor Palin? I have no clue.

    I didn’t listen to her speech.

    Kieth in NM. A red/neck Marine truck driver? Good for you! One of my best friends in grad school was a hulking loud mouthed Navy veteran. He and his partner stayed together for over twenty years until he died.

    Thanks for you good description of white trash. I could picture it well because I have socialized with people like that. They do have entertaining weddings, though.

    Life these past ten years has been like living in a bad movie. I’m glad I am around to see it.

  292. and the hooommme of theeeee braaaaavvvvveeeeeeeee……:-)

    Sarah Palin is pregnant and Gov. Sandford is the father…..

  294. Susan in CT wrote: “If indeed his skin was mottled, I find it sad and interesting that he felt the need to make the skin-tone “even” with the lighter tones rather than with his birth-color. Sad that he was (or any one of us is) so dissatisfied with what we are.”

    That has been interesting to me also. I have watched a program where the young man, who is a journalist, black, has to cover his skin with brown makeup to match his skin tone because of vitiligo. Why did MJ chose the lighter tone if he indeed suffered from vitiligo? Does that mean that his sister Latoya had the same disease? She too became rather light-skinned around the same time. She has since gotten darker. Most of MJ’s friends were rather light-skinned. It just looked to me that he did not like being black. Is this an indictment of society at large for the way black people are treated in this country? Making him want to get as far away front dark skin as possible? Points to ponder.

    I liked MJ for the joy he brought us. I liked his music and his dancing. I did not like the change in appearance. However, it was his choice and in the end, it was his life to live; and when he broke free from his father, he lived it the way he saw fit. I hope that the children molestation charges were untrue. If they weren’t then, may his accusers find it in their heart to forgive him, for their own sake. God has extended his arms to him as He will do us when our time comes, regardless of “our sins”. Hope you are at peace at last MJ.

  295. Now, now, now PalinShutUp. Be careful not to gloat.

  296. oops!

  297. Keith in NM, I say SP is white trash because I know so as fact, she is known as such in Wasilla, i have friends there and you dont have to live in a trailer to be white trash

    transcript, edited, not verbatim


    ‘If I have learned one thing: LIFE is about choices!’

    yes, tell me about choices SP, you are full of it,you mean your choices that you want to mandate on the rest of us

    screw you SP and oh yea, kiss my ass

  298. Keith in NM, I say SP is white trash because I know so as fact, she is known as such in Wasilla, i have friends there and you dont have to live in a trailer to be white trash

    transcript, edited, not verbatum


    ‘If I have learned one thing: LIFE is about choices!’

    yes, tell me about choices SP, you are full of it,you mean your choices that you want to mandate on the rest of us

    screw you SP and oh yea, kiss my ass

  299. I got it. I just listened to the whole speech again and I think Caribou Barbie is going to hunt down Osama.

  300. Who said, “Seniors” (old) haven’t gotten with the “web”. My daughter-in-law turned me on to this
    blog and I’m statyin’.

  301. News or rumor?

    Re: Palin – Criminal Indictment “Pending,”
    Reports Alaska Law Enforcement Official

    This just in my in-box, from a source connected sometimes to CNN:

    “Here’s a quote I got from law enforcement here in Alaska yesterday afternoon regarding Palin “a criminal indictment is pending authorization.”


  302. Keith, wow. That really seems oxymoronish. Who’d a thunk it? But I still think if white trash had a queen….

  303. …that is I’ve got them living across the street… three trailer houses, no them ain’t manufactured housing, they’re trailers. Barefoot kids running everywhere, fence laying aside so they can park in the yard, hard to tell who all is living there and they change partners every full moon. That’s white trash folks!

    Keith in NM

  304. I have to clarify a couple of points. Sarah Palin is neither a red neck or white trash. I can’t stand the woman, but she’s not either of these. I can speak on good authority… I live three miles from Texas, and spent most of my adult life in Texas. I know red necks and I know (don’t admit it) white trash. Red necks are good ole boys; country, uncouth, but good at heart. White trash is just plain stupid. Sarah Palin isn’t necessary good at heart and she’s intelligent (twisted intelligence).

    White trash I’ve go living across the street. I’m dating a gay/red neck/Marine/truck driver. How’s that for a stereotype!

    Keith in NM

  305. Do you think someone may be preggers again, or also?

  306. Ladies, right on as usual. Thinking maybe we can find some stone tablets for those 5 commandments.

  307. I read it. It looks like she wrote it and handed it to him to post. Or he’s a good puppet. I think our troops should be so proud of her honorable mention and support of them. Just makes me want to enlist and hope to catch her winking eye.

  308. james, sorry buddy, meant to write that i agree with the posts poolman and werner made but you have stated you are pro choice as well so i guess we all agree on that point

    but james, did i see you post earlier you listen to rush? please say it isnt so! how could you justify that completely waste of human flesh gutter trash?

    greytdog im skeered to read it, just had lunch

  309. From Lt Gov Sean Parnell:
    “I so appreciate what you have done for our state and your sacrificial service. You have been a strong leader for our state, you’ve inspired a nation, and you’ve ignited the fire of real hope around the world.

    I profoundly respect your decision for I know the depth of character and integrity from which it springs. Rare, indeed, are such selfless acts seen in the public arena.”


    I’m throwing up in my mouth now. . .

  310. I’d put my money on the talk show scenerio, like Geo mentioned. How much money does Rush make? She could affect the greater good if she made mo money, of course. Hell Ya! You Betcha! Besides, she can’t move into Never land and govern AK at the same time, after all think of all those troops and those mean photo shop terrorists…

  311. PalinShutUP, you agree with Werner and me about abortion. Does that make us the Three Muskateers? Dumb joke. I blame the raspberries.

    The other jokes are pretty good.

  312. If someone in Palin’s family has a terminal illness, she would be out milking that cash cow like she’s milked Trig’s Down Syndrome. More likely a scandal – either something to do with AIP & Todd, or the upcoming ethics complaints (which have not cost Alaska millions of $$)

  313. ‘….or she got tired of the criticism from Republicans and Democrats alike and decided it hurt her administrative effectivness’

    one thing I can say about sp her hide is too thick to let criticism get to her

  314. from twitter: “Lt Gov Andre Bauer (SC) called Lt Gov Sean Parnell (AK) and asked “How the hell did you do that?”

  315. The reports coming in now are that Sarah Palin has stated in her will that if Todd is unable to raise thier children then she names Diana Ross as the Successor Guardian…..Stay tuned for more late breaking news…….

  316. PalinShutUp, “white trash” and “red neck” are subjective terms at least in my non- southern home. My father was born in North Carolina and Sarah Palin doesn’t fit the “white trash” definition he brought north. We will have to agree to disagree with that one.

    I agree the terms cross races and income levels.

    We have a glut of black raspberries and cherries this year. I wish you were around to share. I made four delicious raspberry pies yesterday and I am still picking several quarts a day.

    Something big must have happened, as you say. Her motives won’t stay hidden for long. Either someone in the family has a terminal illness, Sarah is one jump ahead of a major scandal, she has decided to rebuild her image in preparation for the next election, or she got tired of the criticism from Republicans and Democrats alike and decided it hurt her administrative effectivness. She has changed careers before. Maybe she will become a talk show hoste. Maybe she will become hermit.

  317. Sarah Palin’s husband just returned from Argentina….need I say more….

  318. and ive got to tell you, I am lovin’ my name today

    muahahahaaaa! :)

  319. ‘….or the Christian Soldier candidate…’

    ‘Maybe Joe Jackson asked her to fill Michael’s shoes…’

    thank goodness I has swallowed my tea when I read that

    there’s gotta be something brewing and it aint my tea, that biatch loves the spotlight and power too much

    it gets curiouser and curiouser and I betcha M&H will be all over it, yummy yum yum, cant wait for that pie LOL!

    james and werner, right there with cha about abortion, freaking hypocrites

  320. Hey Werner…What was THAT about last night??? One minute you posted something kind of “out there” (even for you) and the next minute it was gone??? Party time at Werner’s??? :-)

  321. Yep…It is BIG……This just in….Sarah Palin killed Michael Jackson. Karl Malden was only witness…she killed him too. Sad.

  322. Whatever her reasons, I hope she knows on a cellular level, the entire country is grateful she’s gone from an official, elected post.

  323. Hi gang,

    I just saw Sarah Palin’s speech about what an outstanding job she has done as governor of Alaska but is abruptly stepping down at the end of the month.

    You heard it right here on M&H. She is putting together an act with her family and any other members of her extended family she can round up and going on “America’s Got Talent!’ Even if the judges reject it, they will be taking the act on the road.



    P.S. Sorry, folks. I just couldn’t resist.

  324. Poolman has hit the nail on the head – it’s for Trig and the Troops, of course, also.

  325. Maybe Joe Jackson asked her to fill Michael’s shoes…

  326. She’s doing it for the greater good and the troops and her family and Alaska and Trig and for not politics as usual as bloodsport and she will always be there for support and to help and she doesn’t want to be a lame duck and millions of dollars and a partidge in a pear tree she prayed about it and hell ya and the outside working for the greater good and she just gave all the reasons and she is leaving Alaska in capable hands right after the picnic…

  327. Well I predicta cosmetic problem:
    From all the “brown-nosing” her skin coloration on the niose changed so much that make-up won’t help and skin transplant would show for too long to “cover up”


  328. I predict some type of radio or TV deal. She wants to be the next Rush.

  329. PEr Andrea Mitchell – “with insiders from Palin camp” Palin is leaving politics altogether.

    So what does this mean for the $$ raised recently by SarahPAC? Are Greta & Sarah still BFFs? Does Todd lose his Arctic Cat sponsorship? Will Sarah have to start shopping again at consignment shops?

    And you’re right – I think something really big, really nasty was coming down the pike and there was just no way she could shimmy co co bop around it.

  330. Well, if the shit hits the fan…..you’d better like freckles, Sarah!

  331. Imaginista–I totally agree with you. The timing (Friday on a holiday weekend), her frenetic way of speaking, and the whole idea of resigning mid term. Something is up and it couldn’t happen to a more deserving person.

  332. Ding Dong the Witch is Resigning! I’m taking bets that there is something coming down the pike for Miss Wassillabilly in the form of an indictment. From what I hear there have been more probes and it hasn’t looked good, and I think there is something breaking that she wanted to get out ahead of. I can’t wait to hear what Helen has to say!

  333. No way, folks–if she was doing this for a 2012 run she wouldn’t resign mid-term. Something really big must be about to hit.

  334. Greytdog:
    …there’s more to this than meets the eye (but there usually is with Palin)….

    What, you mean it’snot just eye-candy? Well, can’t be brain…..so, WHAT more is there?

    Last hope for the GOP?
    Didn’t think they strut THAT low!
    It’s a bit like admiting: We ain’t got a clou nor a program, but we can blind your eye’s ……..

    Awww, best thing they could do EVER!

  335. I suspect she’s girding her loins to be the GOP candidate in 2012 – or maybe the AIP candidate or the Christian Soldier candidate. . . there’s more to this than meets the eye (but there usually is with Palin)


  337. Oh and one more:

    Did those stupid pro-livers ever think that the best way to deminish abortions is to provide help for mother AND child until the kid is 18 or so?

    What a f***ing hypocrisy is that to do all that the girl bears the child and as soon it’s in the world put the white, or whatever color, trash stamp on her head and let them fend for themselfs?

    I can just feel the bile raising when I think about that!

    Live is so beautifull my friend, sometimes it just makes me wanna puke!

  338. AND


    ONLY the mother has a say if she wants to carry the child to term or not, NO ONE ELSE, male or female, has ANY RIGHT to mix into that desicion!

    Help is OK, when asked for counseling is OK, but NO INTERfu*kingFERENCE!

  339. PalinShutUp


    The bible has been used to justify murders by the millions for the last 1800 years, so what’s a few more abortions to you?

    The bible is and was formost a POLITICAAL instrument and a religious reference only AFTER.

    So, don’t fret if a few ass-hats lie about the bible and what is written there, they are completly within the traditional use of that book!

    IF you are religous and IF you care (what I really think you do), than all you can do is the best that can be done:

    keep going, don’t change, don’t give up, just laugh and smile once in a while, it works wonders against bitterness………….

    Now THIS came from a BELIEVING (not sorry for the pun) atheist! ;-P

  340. PalinShutUp, I have been through the bible and cannot find anything that claims abortion is actually murder. As I have said here before, murder requires intent. What is the motivation of the heart? Until that child is born, it is entirely dependent on its host (mom) for survival and growth.
    My personal feelings are that abortion should not be a form of birth control. Beyond that, the mother should be the only one responsible for that unborn one.

  341. JaneE,
    My mom forwarded the email to me from one of her friends and there was no credit assigned to it.

    I googled it and apparently it was from 2007 and it is posted now in many places. Most do not credit the author, but some sites to have attributed it to R.J.Wiedemann.LtCol.USMC Ret.

  342. I want CLEAR PROOF from these parrots that abortion is murder straight from the bible

    proof, FACTS as in a passage [from the bible] that Jesus himself stated abortion is murder

    show me

    people including children are massacred routinely in the bible!

    “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”–Psalm 137:9

    the bible is not pro-life!

    what a load of BS

  343. Poolman: “Hello gang, my mom sent me this…
    The following is the winning entry in an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:

    This year’s term was “Political Correctness”. The winner wrote:

    “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
    I would really like to use the above as a sig but would like to credit the author. By chance, would your mom have that info?


  344. and I agree with a long ago previous poster who wrote that it crosses racial lines

  345. ‘We both agreed she has red neck traits.’

    sorry james, I disagree, SP is white trash

    big difference

  346. Sophronia, I can relate to your post. My thinking continues to be refined and shaped by my experiences and often by hearing things said in such a way that really resonate with me – even if they are not new concepts. (Thanks jsri, by the way.)

    I like having an open mind. It seems like it would be boring to have all the answers all the time. Fortunately I’ll never have to worry about that. :)

  347. Donna, just remember a stopped clock is right twice a day. Your comment made me laugh. Thanks again.

  348. Poolman, thanks for the link. I didn’t bring Sarah Palin up, Honolulu Sally did. I was only explaining my view of why as Sally hoped she would, Palin did not fade into the woodwork as most losing vice presidential candidates do.

    Yes, the vacume is the GOP. Both sides find her interesting because most other leading Republicans come across as boring non- entities.

    A poster to a blog commenting on a Jonah Goldberg column wrote “If you were a bit more courageous, you’d admit that the GOP establishment reeks of elitism and that the blue bloods and country clubbers don’t want someone who hasn’t gone to the right universities or doesn’t speak in the right accent to be leader of the party. If you knew your history well, you’d know there is an ongoing schism between the progressive and conservative factions within the party…this infighting happened even during the Reagan-Ford era and that what’s happening now seems to be a repeat of it. ”

    Party leaders and news writers on both sides tend to regard the Heartland as Londoners saw Liverpool before the Beatles. Little good could come from there. We both agreed she has red neck traits. I’m not defending Sarah Palin now, but I am defending my opinion that bi- coastal elitism exists, and some, not all, of the attacks on Palin reflect the cultural bias.

  349. Good Lord, James–I was ok until you said I agreed with Limbaugh about ANYTHING!!

  350. James, this one’s for you..

    “Despite her disastrous performance in the 2008 election, Sarah Palin is still the sexiest brand in Republican politics, with a lucrative book contract for her story.”


  351. Donna, thanks for your post regarding “murder” in combat or self defense. Why it means a lot to me is nobody’s business, but it does.

    Rush Limbaugh said roughly the same as you wrote about Michael Jackson. Jackson was aquitted. A former Secretary of Labor faced charges and was also aquitted. He said he was happy but after the adverse publicity he asked “who will restore my good name?” Micheal Jackson might have asked the same question.

  352. James, SP again? She saw the limelight and can’t let it go. Now she is wanting a footrace with Obama. WTF? Showing off her “charms” again. Using the media she supposidly despises for her own ends. Who would benefit from that? The state of Alaska? The unemployed? Iran? What a ham! Just do your job SP. Fix your own house. Prove you have integrity. We don’t need anymore show dogs. We need work dogs, IMO.

    Oh, and James, that vacuum is the GOP.

  353. Honolulu Sally, I found signs that conservatives are unhappy with Republicans too. Pundit and Pundet wrote “‘Maybe now that even Obama admits unemployment will break ten percent, the Obama stimulus ruse will be seen for the great deception it was.’” “Maybe. But if so it will be in spite of the GOP if all they can come up is this kind of lameness. Not only is it dull; its style trivializes the dire situation our country is facing. Count we do better than that?”

    I’m just reporting and supporting your point, not starting an arguement.

    Most losing vice presidential candidates return to relative obscurity, but not Sarah Palin. She fascinates both sides because she stands at the edge of a vacume.

    We must remember Charles Martel. His army won the Battle of Tours, or Poiters. It was one of the most decisive battles in history. The battle in 732 determined that Christians, not Muslims would rule Europe.

  354. Poolman, I agree, and I like the arrow analogy. I see us as like college students with God as our parent. When most of us pray we are behaving like kids away from home who write for money or are distraught because we got a bad grade on a test, etc.

    We see the difference between the Old and New Testaments. God actively changed lives as when He and Satan messed with Job over a bet or when God flooded the earth. In the New Testament, God becomes more of a bystander as parents do with their maturing children.

    Now, we live in chaotic destiny. Each decision we make causes others to be more likely and we become almost predestined to follow a certain track, like an arrow.

    Susan in CT, most of my ancestors were farmers or tradesmen also. Some other family names were Andrew, Tyler, Batchelder, Putnam, Harriman, Fowler and Peabody, but no Forbes. Some Forbes and our family did live in Ipswich, and the name was mentioned as owner of a neighboring farm in Massachusetts. If they are your Forbes, our two families probably knew each other. We have a few cousins splashing around at the bottom of the geneology well too.

    Honolulu Sally, I agree with you about rich and poor. One can be wealthy without money, though. A word to describe traits of the rich is opportunism. Bad things happen, but they also give us opportunities while they make us stronger. As you know, my wife and I had plans different from how we now live but we found ways out, and , we are rich and free in ways that count. We aren’t wealthy, but we have enough money to help poor people. We helped save a couple’s home, and some day, we plan to start a schollarship fund.

    Buying Warren Buffet’s stock when he was just starting, was a good way to get rich. Several neighbors took a chance because he lives only forty five miles away, and at least one bought shares in Iowa Beef when it was a small operation in Denison, Iowa. He told my aunt about it and she bought some stock too.

    greytdog after the aliens meet my neighbors, they will be wearing tin foil hats.

  355. Jean-I attended a screening of* The Third Jihad*.

    We were searched and there were body guards.I would appreciate your opinion of it. You can google it. Please —Happy Independence Day

  356. testing new login

  357. During high school I was out at Rosebud and Pine Ridge. . . I volunteered as a tutor but spent a lot of time with some of the elders who “adopted” me since I sincerely showed a desire to learn. . . I met Russell and Dennis & spent a lot of time talking with and learning from them, but never met Leonard. I fully supported AIM’s mission on Pine Ridge – Tom Wilson was a corrupt sob who installed his equally corrupt cronies in positions of power & terrorized his own people. I’ve always thought that Leonard was set up – and I’ve always thought that George McGovern was a jerk who totally disrespected the Sioux.

  358. mornin’, greytdog: the corgyn here (plural of corgi for the uninitiated) are looking forward to a party tonight….particularly since the Large Dogs have to stay home.

  359. You mean it was troll, not a UFO? Oh damn. Well. So much for SETI working through the blogsphere.

  360. Hi Gang

    seams like some asshat spoofed my login including the avatar….

    That who know me know that comment wasn’t from me, (First indication: NO typos .-) )

    Matthew, IF you can get me a valid IP of that swine I’d love to have it, I DO have some ideas of my own on how to react on that!

  361. ah…another “abortion is murder” post. Which is one of my favorite things because it shows the sheer ignorance of those who would say it.

    “Murder” is a legal concept, like “homicide.” If something is legal, it is not murder. For example, where capital punishment is legal, imposing it is not “murder.” Where (as is the case in most jurisdictions) killing someone in defense of your or another’s life and/or property is legally justified, it is not “murder.” Killing an enemy in war is not “murder.”

    Now, it’s an entirely different thing to say that you believe something is wrong. I, for example, believe capital punishment is wrong and I disagree with most wars. However, that doesn’t make imposing capital punishment or killing during war “murder”–it’s simply something with which I personally disagree.

    To say something is “murder” when it is legal is simply the manipulative attempt by certain people to inflame emotions. Or else it’s ignorance, which obviously is the case with poor sad Pooh.

    Similarly, saying “Michael Jackson is a pedophile” is equally ignorant. He was acquitted of that charge. Now, you may believe that his behavior was inappropriate or odd or unbecoming or that perhaps he should have been convicted based on your impression of the evidence (doubtless formed without being in the courtroom or knowledge of the law and what is or is not admissible). However, that’s all it is.

    Pooh–I realize that it takes a measure of maturity and education to know the difference between your personal opinions and the truth, and some self-control to not voirce the former as the latter. But give it a try–you’ll appear far less stupid.

  362. As long as crop circles don’t start showing up. . . but just in case, should we be donning our tin foil hats?

  363. you can pull your own post? i had no clue

  364. James, think of it like you are an arrow. You have been created from the finest the earth has to offer. Your Creator has taken into account every consideration to you landing on a target. Now, as He takes that bow and draws back, and lets go of the string, you enter “reality”. Time is His domain. Creation is His pleasure, the earth His playground, if you will.

    There are worlds within worlds within worlds within worlds to explore and distract us along this journey. If we are the pilot, we go for the shiny stuff. We think we have vision. We don’t need no stinking directions! Let me fly this thing! I know what’s best for me. Silly humans.

    We don’t see from the same prospective as the One that draws that bow.

    Life’s a glorious journey that has been spun into motion. There are many paths. It’s important to have good light.

  365. Hi gang,

    Before we get too involved in our 4th of July weekend plans, here’s another mini-history lesson for ya. Way back when, the Islamic Arabs took political control of the entire Mediterranean and the ‘Silk Route’. This overland trade route stretched from Turkey across Iran, Afghanistan into India and China. It had been used for millennia.

    With the whole Middle East under Muslim control, what happened to the lucrative trade with the Far East? The Arabs were free to continue and thrive they did! Europe was cut off, utterly, without paying a king’s ransom in tolls to traverse them. Besides, Christian Europe and the Muslims were mortal enemies, making any attempts too dangerous and hardly worth the effort. Europe fell into the Dark Ages in the clutches of the Catholic Church.

    The Crusaders made a mighty effort to wrest the Holy Land back from Islam. The Crusades took place from 1095-1291. The Holy Land was under the political control of the Muslims. Imbued with religious fervor, the pilgrims/crusaders took off to free the Holy Land. The Muslims didn’t care that much about having all those Christians around anyway. There were eight crusades, including a Children’s Crusade, for heaven’s sake! Some 50,000 children from France and Germany took off on foot but only made it as far as Italy. None of the crusades were successful.

    Five hundred years went by. Then…
    Enter England, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France and Scandinavia to find alternate trade routes by sea. In time Columbus et al began the conquest of the oceans. The race was on in subsequent battles over supremacy of the seas. In the process they discovered a wealth of new lands and peoples. One by one most of the other European countries dropped out of the race. With the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588, England emerged as the new British Empire that spread around the globe.

    Then Islamic countries began to slide into a Dark Ages type religious decline until oil was discovered in the Middle East. The world needed oil. So the old conflict was ignited again, ostensibly Christianity against Islam, but this time it was oil instead of the ‘Silk Route’.

    That’s where we are now. The West is starting to come up with alternative energy sources just at Britain came up with mastery of the seas to get to the Far East trade. What goes around comes around.

    What’s next? Could be phosphorus. Like oil and all resources, the phosphorus reserves are finite. They are rapidly being depleted with more and more demand for use in fertilizers. We all use them either in agriculture or in our gardens. This mineral is a necessary nutrient in the human body.

    The ingredients in fertilizers are hydrogen, phosphorous, and potassium. Hydrogen comes from the air but the other two have to be mined. The U.S. has a pretty adequate reserve but guess who has the largest deposits of potassium reserves? Morocco, an Islamic country. Next comes China. Oh, boy.

    The runoff from fertilizers into eroding soil along with human and animal waste is helping to cause ‘Dead Zones’ in the oceans. Blue-green algae feed on hydrogen and phosphorus. In turn when they die, their decomposition depletes oxygen from the water. And of course, the fish die. Vicious cycle.

    Is this another ‘The Sky is Falling!!!” scenario? No. Just another problem that needs to be identified. It has been.

    The solutions?
    Some might say, there is no problem. If there is, well let’s go take phosphorus away militarily from them Moroccans, under one pretext or another. Religion is always a good one. Politicians have no problem USING the sincere faith of either Christians or Muslims to further their own purposes. Although Morocco is not a nuclear power, who knows, they may have WMD’s lurking around hidden somewhere in the sand. Or maybe China. Them commies have been asking for it for years. The trouble is, China is a nuclear power and we owe them tons of money.

    Scientists have and are coming up with a number of alternative solutions, many of them involving environmental issues such as conserve, recycle and reuse. I am hoping that this time around, people will listen to the scientists.

    If you are interested in learning more, there is a thoughtful article in the June 2009 issue of Scientific American. You can also research a number of other sources and learn a whole lot more than you ever wanted to know about fertilizers, phosphorus and the body’s use of this invaluable mineral.

    My point here is, forewarned is forearmed. We shouldn’t let ourselves be snookered again!



    P. S. That issue of Scientific American also has a fun article on the Evolution of House Cats.

  366. I think our Helenly host dropped by to fill in those potholes and smooth out this thread. Yeah, that’s the ticket…

  367. No, Werner posted. I won’t repeat. Geo and I responded. Then he pulled it. I was wondering if anyone else caught it.

  368. Are you referring to Pooh?

  369. It’s kind of like a UFO sighting. Any other witnesses?

  370. Well I want to learn how to do it cause that was wacked.

  371. Geo, you saw that too? I haven’t learned that trick yet.

  372. OMG That was so huge!

  373. Werner, bißen blöd?

  374. Dude? WTF?

  375. clean up on aisle 9. there is poo all over the place

  376. I always feel slightly guilty laughing at what you write, because its actually true, and I therefore think that I should be crying. But I think we need a bit of humor right now, and I appreciate you fulfilling that need!

  377. Susan in CT,

    What a bunch of looney bins they have on the conservative side. They are just full of bickering and finger pointing. I do hope Sarah Palin does not respond or read the article. She’s done enough nails-on-blackboard and it is time for her to take care of her family instead. Let her keep her Jimmy Choos and her designer glasses. She did her part, and it is over.

    I have just done Part One of my Rich Dad training. Differentiates between those who are poor and those who have wealth. The poor always have someone or something to blame. The wealth do not blame their circumstances or others for their failures. Instead, they look for ways to become successful.

    The Republican party could learn a lot from that lesson alone.

  378. James, I think alot of people go there, but I still disagree. Yes we have freewill. That is why so many people don’t see God. They see all the pain and sorrow in this world and feel God is just not around. “How could he let this or that happen?” they ask. They think he should be righting all the wrongs and fixing all the bad. They forget we have been given freewill. We have to choose our direction in everything. We always are given more than one option. He wants to direct us, but will not force us. You have heard it said if you truly love someone – set them free. Forced or bridled love is not a choice. If God was more controlling and visible, we would all believe, but would we choose to love of our own freewill, or feel obligation and fear?


  379. James: I don’t think I’ve seen your family names on my family tree, alas. It’s Forbes in East Hartford (farmers and merchants, not people of wealth) that’s the trunk of mine — although I could ask my cousin who fell into the geneology well and only comes up for air every so often…

  380. “I was talking to a salesman from New York yesterday. I asked him who he voted for. He said “Palin”. Thought she was the most sincere and intelligent honest person. Had to bite my tongue to keep myself from saying things I may regret. It was interesting he didn’t say “McCain”….”

    Just before the election, I saw a couple of yard signs that said PALIN McCain!

    Here’s a link to an article about the fallout from the Vanity Fair article about Palin:


  381. Poolman, Waimea Bay in the winter is WAY too big for my hubby. If you left in ’67, it’s been 42 years since you were back! Time to get your feet wet again dontcha think?

    Susan in CT and PalinShutUp, It seems it is human nature to be want to be what we are not. I get perms to make my hair kinky, and others go to lengths to straighten their hair.

    Werner, thanks for the Stevie Wonder mini concert video. Brought back memories and the feelings of November 4, 2008. A great optimistic wonderful evening.

    I was talking to a salesman from New York yesterday. I asked him who he voted for. He said “Palin”. Thought she was the most sincere and intelligent honest person. Had to bite my tongue to keep myself from saying things I may regret. It was interesting he didn’t say “McCain”….

    He thinks Rush is wrong for his idiotic rants. He says he supports our new President and thinks he is doing a fine job.

    Good to know there are some conservatives (albeit horny men voting for a good looking woman that winks over the airwaves at them) that are able to move on and accept their new President.

  382. Hi “cousin” Susan in CT, my family was centered around Pittsfield, Mass for generations. I’d have to look it up to be sure, but I think some farmed near Hartford too. They also lived in New York, and Vermont. Some fought on both sides of the Revolution and that losing branch are now Canadians.

    An ancestor wrote a complete geneological family history with biographies and numbered branches. A Canadian contacted us five years ago to revise the book, and he owns the same book we do.

    If you have Pennimans (sp) or Beans in your family tree, we are likely cousins. I’d have to look up other family names to tell you. We discovered the Bean family, who were classmates through grade and high school were distant cousins from the Mass-CT era. They also were related to Judge Roy Bean, the law west of the Pecos.

    The Pennimans used to have family conventions with many branches of relatives when I was a child. I think their records are in the Pittsfield Historical Society. At least they still send us news letters.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t a distant family relationship. I didn’t date much in high school for fear of getting serious with an unknown distant cousin. I met my future wife in college, and she lived a long distance from my home town.

    One day we visited my aunt, and I saw to my horror that half of my wife’s family was sitting on the lawn of our high school janitor next door. Some of that branch still live in our area.

    Since we live across the river from Indian reservations, quite a few people here are of mixed blood. A friend didn’t know she was part Native American until she was in college and a professor asked if she would like to join a minority organization. This year, we discovered she is a very distant cousin in law.

    Yes, Poolman, I know about Lenard Peltier. He was part of The American Indian Movement who took over the Wounded Knee area in the early seventies. Russel Means was another leader. Most were Lakota Sioux, and the reservation is one of the poorest spots in the US. I believe the school got running water around 1999. Writing a letter is a good idea. Pine Ridge is not a happy place.

    Some of AIM also occupied Alcatraz too.

    You might be interested in Brule. It is a Lakota Sioux group popular around here. You can google their web site. I like their music, and they are nice folks.

    You were a young surfer dude? I’m impressed.

    The God is my co -pilot sounds correct to me. I was taught we have free will, and God uses us to accomplish His work. Thus, we are ultimately responsible for our destinies, and God would only be guiding the pilot and helping him/her to fly the plane. Flying the plane would be the pilot’s responsibility.

    I like the bumper sticker “Jesus saves ( and invests in gold.)

  383. Oh and on that E!Online thing that didn’t paste successfully… the judge has postponed the custody hearing for MJ’s kids so that Debbie Rowe has some time to sort out whether she wants to seek custody

  384. Pooh: Are you not yet familiar with the term ‘ass-hat’? I’d bone up on that one if I were you…. and thank God I’m not. Period

    Keith in NM

  385. Poolman:
    The ones with ‘God is my co-pilot’ are the ones that race by you as you’re tooling along at the speed limit, usually in their Expedition/Escalade/Hummer!

    And thank you for the info on Leonard Peltier. I just emailed that info to several friends that will take action.

    I know what you’re talking about with an extended family. One of my aunts was killed in a car accident when I was four… my uncle and four kids moved in for some time and lived with us off and on until I was in high school…. I resented the situation then, but feel blessed now, of course. That particular uncle just got a pacemaker today…. who knew that it was a 15 minute out-patient procedure now? Damn!

    No one said anything or acted any different. It just left me wondering if it happened or if I imagined it. At this age you start forgetting stuff, so imagining things that didn’t happen isn’t too far fetched! Like I said, it was my second go around in two weeks time…. I was just thankful to be done with it all. And damned hungry!

    To all…. from E!Online:

    WTF? She can’t decide if she wants her kids?

    Keith in NM

  386. Poo poo to you too pooh. Period?

  387. Abortion is murder. Period.

    Michael Jackson was a child molestor. Period.

    This site sucks. Period.

  388. I understand now what you mean Susan in CT, my apologies for the tone of my comment. I wonder if MJ did that as to not scare children? No one really knows I guess. Its probably the same reason I wear long pants and skirts because of a catastrophic accident which mangled my leg.

    if you look up the skin condition’s name on wikipedia MJ’s photo is there explaining when he was diagnosed

    what ticked me off was a couple of posts above that it was fact MJ ‘bleached his skin in attempts to be white’.

  389. This is OT, but important, IMO…Are any of you, especially the native americans that come here, familiar with Leonard Peltier? Robert Redford narrated the documentary about his story in 1992. You can google him, if interested. I won’t post the links here.

    He is up for parole again July 27, 2009. If you are familiar with him and his case, you can help by writing a letter to the parole board on his behalf. He has been in for 33 years.

  390. Margaret I love you! Amen, sister!

  391. Honolulu Sally, I would love to come and try to surf the waves. When I left Oahu in 67, I was 10 and just starting to get on a board. The popular spot back then was Waimea Bay. We lived across the road from Sunset beach and later moved to Mokuleia. Those were treasured times for me.

  392. greytdog, I like your bumper sticker. I have seen that one before and for you and what you do, it fits. I’m sure it offends the “righteous”.

    Those with the “God is my co-pilot” really don’t get it. Shouldn’t God be the pilot?

  393. Joe Jackson can restart the Jackson 5. He could have Michael Stuffed and have him go onstage as part of the show. It could take place during the shows which were set for Michael next year.

    Joe could get the grandkids to be the New Jackson 5 or 7 or whatever and introduce them during the upcoming shows. Michael’s kids could get over their grief by imitating daddy’s life.

    Sadly: I think Joe Jackson would actually do this kind of thing. He could be in charge of the Jackson family again.

  394. “Susan in CT. Its remarkable that you live near where your ancestors were. My family lived in your area about the same time and for nearly two hundred years before they scattered. Wouldn’t it be weird if we were distant cousins? I hope you write what you do know.”

    Heh. Yes, I was quite a little bore about it all when I was in grade school. My grandmother filled me with how great it was that my ancestors had the street named after them, and there were three or more houses that bore the family name, and a couple of windows in the small church that various relatives attended had some of the ancestors’ names — well you can be sure that I told EVERYbody, and you can be sure that nobody cared! At least no one among my classmates!

    What town, cousin?

  395. PalinShutUp: You’re right, I don’t know much about Michael Jackson’s skin condition. But I think you misunderstood me — I didn’t say I had a problem with anything he did in terms of his appearance — I said it’s sad that he as well as so many of us are so dissatisfied with our appearance that we go to great and sometimes painful length to change them, and to what end?

    Do they make people love us more? Do they make us feel better about ourselves? If so, why?

    I have a young relative who was, in most people’s eyes, incredibly beautiful. But because she’s an anxious young woman, and could never feel that she was good enough (for what, I don’t know), she had her nose changed and had a boob job. She went through a lot of pain — and does she feel better about herself? It doesn’t seem so.
    So that makes me sad too.

    Yet — would I make some physical changes if I could afford the procedures? I’d be lying if I said I’d never consider it.

    This dissatisfaction with our original selves was more what I was talking about.

  396. Funny video:

  397. Thanks for the MJ video Rui. It was beautifully done and this is how I want to remember Michael Jackson. Not by his father or his death.

    Jean, I’m not ready to take up painting yet. Maybe in a few years. Getting into Rich Dad coaching stuff, another hat to wear but one that can free me up later to do what I really want. Thanks for the offer, we really need to meet soon.

    It’s a gorgeous day here in Hawaii! You all should come and try surfing (waves are great in Waikiki right now!)

  398. Ladies, you again rock. I wish my grandma was here to read your blog. She’d love it.

    As to MJ, I’m kind of over all the coverage…”all Michael all the time.” Has anyone realized how many celebs have died in the past couple of weeks? Farrah, Ed Mc, Maulden, Fred Travelina, and on and on. It’s insane.

    I do have compassion for MJ. He really grew up screwed up. Maybe now his torment is over and he’s at peace. Or he’s watching over the crowd of hangers-on from above wishing he could bop ‘em all over the head for being so self-righteous.

    Egads, Joe J just needs to go away. He can’t help himself. He has to find his entire meaning in his son. And a son that he beat horribly, at that. My heart aches for the kids. They’re the ones who will be torn apart by all of this.

    Sad. Truly sad.

  399. ‘Every time someone I know says they are “pro-life” I ask them if they’re against the death penalty and if they’re against the wars in Iraq and Afganistan. When they (almost always) said no, I respond that they are not “pro-life” only anti-choice.’

    they who want to rule the life of others, tell them what God they should believe in, who to have sex with…to me are dictators, very dangerous individuals and should not be in public office in this country making the laws for the majority, but that’s my own private belief

    Ms Fawcett’s life and health struggles were chronicled for quite some months prior to her death, a vigil was closely followed as well

    the attention her death
    brought to the type of cancer she had was worth it

    it is a shame they both died at the same time but as i mentioned, her struggles had been in just about every channel I turned to prior to her passing and according to the media since her passing was not unexpected

    MJ’s death being a shock to all it took the lead, anyway, that’s my assumptions

  400. Bumper Sticker on MY car:
    DoG is my co-pilot

    (which is true since my retriever rides shotgun)

  401. “When I grow up I want to be” you! Amen to everything you’ve said.

    Not only should Joe Jackson crawl back into the hole he slithered out of, but so should all the ex-lawyers, hangers on, “spiritual advisers” (yes, you, Rev. Sharpton), and others making a quick buck remembering (and/or getting press) their “relationship” with Michael Jackson. I note with interest that Jackson’s mother has said nothing, his brother Jermain and sister Janet have been reserved and appropriate and his reportedly true friends, such as Diana Ross and Elizabeth Taylor, have been private and silent.

    It is unfortunate that Farrah Fawcett died on the same day as Michael Jackson and got buried in the headlines. Ms. Fawcett, along with her loved ones, fought her cancer with bravery and showed dignity up to the end.

    You hit a chord with your comment about “pro-life.” Every time someone I know says they are “pro-life” I ask them if they’re against the death penalty and if they’re against the wars in Iraq and Afganistan. When they (almost always) said no, I respond that they are not “pro-life” only anti-choice.

    I’m a bumper sticker person. My favorites right now are “Against Abortion? Then Don’t Have One,” “The Christian Right is Neither” and “Freedom of Religion Includes Freedom FROM Religion.”

  402. So many good comments! How did the discussion veer into abortion?

    I used to be against abortion, until someone I respected told me she had had one. I started changing my thinking, and I now am pro choice, although not completely pro abortion. It doesn’t matter how you try to regulate it, women (desperate women and girls) will still seek them. And it should be noted that when abortion was illegal, our culture made it hardest for a woman to keep her baby. Remember the “adoption not abortion” bumper stickers?

    It almost seemed to me that advocates for adoption wanted the unwanted or inconvenient babies for the parents who could not conceive. Not so much for the welfare of the children or mothers involved.

    On late term abortions, I have reservations. But, again, how do you legally stop them without encouraging secret & dangerous illegal procedures.

    And there is the position of the Catholic Church which opposes abortion big time, but does not believe in realistic birth control. Big contradiction.

    Isn’t there some problem with funding Planned Parenthood, because of conservative objections, which limits the dissemination of info about birth control? Does someone have the facts on this? (I’m referring to here in the U.S.)

    The bumper sticker that says “If you don’t believe in abortion, don’t have one” is pretty simplistic, but it does sort of summarize my own attitude.

  403. Many years ago, my sister’s husband left her and her young son. For the first few months that she was alone, I would occasionally spent the night with her as did my other siblings. I would lie there in her bed and keep her company and listen to her talk on into the night.

    Some time later we found out that one night when my dear brother was seeing her through another lonely night, she reached out for him in her sleep. They laughed it off.

    We’ll never know what MJ was guilty of, but things aren’t always as they seem.

    They just released the tape of the full dress rehearsal from two nights before he died. At 50 he had slowed down some, but not much. Would have been a good show.

    Incidentally, the first night I spent with my sister – the night her husband left – she told me that she’d had an abortion when she and her husband were in college and wondered if perhaps he held that against her somehow.

    It came out later that he’d been cheating on her with the teller at their bank. He turned out to be a serial infidel, thrice divorced, and now is apparently very happy with his fourth wife.

    My sister married a year or so after her divorce, and she and her husband added two beautiful girls to the world. The first was unplanned and they weren’t married. They still smooch every time they meet. 25 years next year.

  404. As usual, you hit the nail squarely on the head.

  405. A few stats of my favorite festival for the 30th edition 2009:

    3,000 artists from 30 countries

    More than 650 concerts, including
    450 free outdoor performances

    as long as it stays dry this is THE event in Montreal…

    More info here:


    (in case it comes up in French, just click on “English” on the left side and you’re OK to go)

  406. Oops.
    Sorry Margaret, sorry Helen.
    Had no idea the link would actually place the YouTube player here. :(

    Better click on it to see the full window, though you can see most of it as is…
    Oh, well…

  407. Excellent, as always.

  408. Werner:

    Thanks for the clips from the Montreal Jazz festival. Though the screamers on the second one were a bit much.

    We went to the Newport festival in its early years but when the prices skyrocketed and the crowds got more restless we gave it up. Saw Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan long before they became household names and the late great John Coltrane among many others.

    Now our sights are set at a much lower level. Our grandson is a drummer in a rock group made up of four HS students and they make some incredible music for a bunch of kids who have played together for less than a year. In fact, I was just listening to a youtube video of a performance they did last January and one of their featured pieces was a great rendition of Coltrane’s Equinox.

    In one sense it is satisfying to see how much they can do but there is a sadness because they will be breaking up as they go off in all directions to college despite the fact that they have a strong local following. Perhaps none of them will ever become professional musicians but the satisfaction of having performed before and entertained an audience is something that can never be taken away from them.

  409. and let me add this, what people believe in their own twisted minds is their own business as well but when they go around passing off those twisted ideas as FACTS is when I take issue

  410. ‘If indeed his skin was mottled, I find it sad and interesting that he felt the need to make the skin-tone “even” with the lighter tones rather than with his birth-color. Sad that he was (or any one of us is) so dissatisfied with what we are.’

    if youd taken the time to look into it, by the time Michael died his body was almost all white with blotches of beige, almost an albino, that you have a problem with him evening out the tone on his FACE to a lighter tone tells me more about you than it does about him

    and honestly, his plastic surgeries are really also none of yours or anyone else’s business either

  411. Kieth, did you have a similar experience to mine when I woke up? Three nurses stood at the foot of my bed, and one said “can you see all right?” I said “I see three of you. You must be the one in the middle.”

    You sound like a great son. They must be proud of you.

    My grandmother was nearly ninety when some of the family visited her after church. While the others visited, she told several hours of stories about her growing up in Wisconsin and the people she knew. I was a teenager and didn’t really care, though I remember some of the stories.

    Though it was past midnight, and barely an hour after my mother died, I wouldn’t sleep until I had written the family stories my mother had told us.

    For Iowa’s sesquicentianial, one of our projects was to interview people ranging from high school to age 104. We took interviewing classes, and included young people because an instructor said the school years are one of the most overlooked aspects of oral histories.

    Now, we have gotten a grant to put the stories on paper. My wife and I attended a Lincoln Highway meeting last evening. Some of the oral history may be useful at proposed visitor centers along the highway.

    I think it is important, as you say, to gather the old stories and maybe tape family members as they talk and interact. “The Living Years” by Mike and the Mechanics says it well.

    greytdog, your parents are lucky to have a daughter like you. It took guts to do what you did, even if you had help.

    Susan in CT. Its remarkable that you live near where your ancestors were. My family lived in your area about the same time and for nearly two hundred years before they scattered. Wouldn’t it be weird if we were distant cousins? I hope you write what you do know.

    Werner, another solution to the recession is home printing presses!! Stretch them to two hundred? I’ve got to move to Canada.

  412. Hello gang, my mom sent me this…
    The following is the winning entry in an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:

    This year’s term was “Political Correctness”. The winner wrote:

    “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

  413. Ah greytdog, I envy you all those connections. While I was growing up there were second cousins nearby and friendly, but that was about it. My parents divorced when I was maybe 9, so there wasn’t even a close-knit nuclear family.

    And of COURSE it could have been much worse, I’m quite aware of that, but one can’t help being wistful…..

  414. Smile alert, not at all comment related to the rest!

    The Canadian solution to the recession!

    Just heard about a new approach to stem the world wide recession by our Canadian Political Ass-Hats:

    They will print the new one-hundred dollar bills on a paper / rubber mix.

    By this the bills will still be only worth one hundred dollars when issued, but if you’re hit hard, through the rubber content, you can strech them to two-hundred…….

  415. My God, Margaret and Helen! Did you get to see the pictures of the house MJ was renting when he died????? Not too shab-bay! I guess if you ever wanted to upgrade from that you would have to buy Versailles!

    You do great posts! Keep them coming!

  416. [...] b******e. The home of the latter is currently featuring pictures from a white trash wedding. MargaretandHelen is a treasure. The two ladies have been best friends for sixty plus years, and they share their [...]

  417. Uh – but not in the Sanford kinda way of sharing. . .just wanted to make that clear :)

  418. James, Keith, & Susan, allow me to join my voice to yours ~ I grew up in an ‘extended’ family – ages from babies through seniors always at the house. Some related, mostly not, but all family. When I was 13 my mom’s parents came to live & travel with us so we had the benefit of fully understanding how we were linked together, what family means. When my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimers, family poured in, altho being closest geographically, the heavy lifting was my choice. But what a support network -cousins, aunts & uncles, honorary family members from across the globe – one and all pitched in to make his last days full of love, laughter, and finally dignity & peace. My mom is the undisputed matriarch that everyone turns to when in need of advice, a hug, common sense, or just a good slap upside our heads. And the greatest gift my parents ever gave us: they truly loved one another and then shared that love with everyone they met.

  419. And Joe Jack-Ass or what was his name….

    ….and when he died, aeh what’s his name again, aehhh Michel, well he made some good records and we will release ‘em again on my all new label, and we bring you also a record with the kids singing christmas carols, right around October or so…….

    Well as said, Joe Jack-ass

  420. And another minute and a half, screaming girls and all….

    more on you(r)tube

  421. “and I highly recommend that everyone spend more time with and listening to their older family members while they have the chance…. ”

    Yes, do it!

    My mother’s family goes back almost 300 years in the town where I grew up and we have SOME stories and pictures, but for the most part our “record” is fragmentary at best. My father’s family was fragmented and scattered and we don’t know much about anyone.

  422. “the skin disease MJ had is called vitiligo, i have seen his face without makeup, he was not faking anything or bleaching his skin, he wore makeup to even out the tone”

    This may well be. But it’s easy to see why people believe that he effected the change in skin color, though, because he intentionally also had various surgeries which made fairly drastic changes in his appearance.

    If indeed his skin was mottled, I find it sad and interesting that he felt the need to make the skin-tone “even” with the lighter tones rather than with his birth-color. Sad that he was (or any one of us is) so dissatisfied with what we are.

  423. James: I kinda know what you mean about not being fully ‘under’…. for my second one (yes two in two weeks) I have a memory of yelling, “ow, that hurts,” but it’s vague…. not sure if it really happened or not…. and I fear the stuff I might have said! Thankfully, don’t need to go through that particular hell for another ten years.

    Jo Atlanta: You’re welcome!

    Werner: I understand…. it’s the most fun when anyone can go out with friends and just have a good time, no hang-ups, just friends. I have an odd assortment of friends that challenge and inspire me….. from some straight married women that have told me that if their husbands were ever to cross the line (well a couple of them) I’d be their choice… odd, to several homophobic straight males that for some reason always seem to think they are my protectors….. but at the end of the day, they’re all good people at heart and they’re in my heart.

    To All: I spent an incredible day yesterday. I took my Mom to see her sister who lives just 45 miles away. Mom is stage 3 COPD so we schlep oxygen everywhere we go, she is vision-impaired due to AMD, and has bone spurs in her spine… getting around is just not fun; her sister is starting to repeat herself every 15 minutes and has heart issues. I took a suitcase full of family photos dating back to the turn of the last century. We went through nearly all of them, attaching identities to those I didn’t know. I’ll have them labeled and arranged by Labor Day, in time for a family reunion I’m hosting for that entire side of the family. I’ve been landscaping and painting and remodeling for months to be ready… I have the meals all planned…. lots of brisket, beans and potato salad (VERY TEXAS)…. but the point of all this is just how rewarding it is for ME….. and I highly recommend that everyone spend more time with and listening to their older family members while they have the chance…. it (they) won’t last forever!

    Keith in NM

  424. Thanks ValleyIndependent.

    We cared for my parents at home during the last two years of their lives. My father required 24 hour care near the end, and though it was hard, we did it. My wife’s father was dying of Alzheimers Disease and we were helping an aunt manage her affairs too. .

    I farmed at night and on weekends when my wife and children were home to take care of Dad. They grew up fast, because they had to. My father “died” in the hospital, and the doctor asked if they should revive him. He said there was no hope for my father. His heart and lungs had stopped for too long. He would be a vegetable at best. He was ninety five and had lived a good life. The doctor had a nurse give me the same opinion. My wife said the same. I called my brother at work, and he told me he would support whatever I decided. I had wanted him to tell me what to do.

    Everyone said it was time to let him go, but my father had given me responsibility to make such decisions for him, and he told me he wanted to be revived, so I gave the order. An ambulance took him from a small local hospital to a Sioux City hospital. We beat them there because the ambulance had a blow out en route.

    They revived him, and as our eyes locked through tube surrounding his face, I knew my dad was still there. We got to say good bye and he saw our childrens’ birthdays. He knew our son would get his drivers license. He died two hours after midnight of our son’s birthday.

    When my mother died, she was gone. Not so for Dad.

    That fall, as darkness settled , I was home alone attatching the bean head to our combine. A man stepped out of the brush and used hand motions to guide me to the bean head. After the two machines fit into place, I climbed from the combine to thank who I thought was a neighbor and to visit. No one was there. I was alone on the farm.

    Several nights later it was midnight as I combined soy beans at least five miles from the nearest human. As I reached the end of the row, I prepared to climb out to clean bean straw from the reel. A figure appeared in the dust to remove the straw as my father always had.

    Two years later, as I combined around midnight, a light went bobbing down the lane and stopped at my row. I assumed my wife was bringing me a sandwich. But the light went out before I got to it . My wife thought I was crazy. The next year, she saw the light too. Our daughter brought us sandwiches, and we wondered about the second light following her. It disappeared too, and it freaked out daughter out.

    I don’t really believe in ghosts, but I would love to see that “ghost” again, or my mother’s.

    I also read Micheal Jackson had vitiligo. It may be why he carried umbrellas so often. Some of my mother’s skin lost pigment too, and she had to stay out of the sun to avoid sunburn.

  425. Hi Gang

    For all you poor sods that couldn’t make it,

    Here I proudly present to you: 8.34 min of a 2 hour FREE live show on Tuesday night to open the Montreal Jazz Fest

    Mr S. Wonder, giving us all a WONDERfull night:

  426. He was a legend in his own time. Much like Elvis was.

  427. Well I have to admit .. . confess. . .I’m reminded of the Bible story or was a Mother Goose story . . .that. . .I am sooooo jealous of. . . anyone who got to the Dodgers game & got to hear Grandpa Elliott sing, or who got to attend the Glastonbury Festival this past week. . .and I’m really really envious of Werner who is off to the various events at the Montreal Jazz Fest. . . arrrgghhh!

  428. the skin disease MJ had is called vitiligo, i have seen his face without makeup, he was not faking anything or bleaching his skin, he wore makeup to even out the tone

    Colorful we will all pray for you because your soul is surely damned since you are unable to resist the temptation to read the sinner’s words posted in this blog

    *deep eyeroll*

    about where i stand on abortion, that’s between me and GOD, period. If you dont believe in abortion dont get one.

  429. Hi Hannah!!Sorry to have bothered u!!No personal offences meant!! I m in favor of MJ. But with people digging up all old graves n pointing charges that anywaz, wud never be approved do u think MJ kud evr rest in peace? With his father being more concerned about the business do u think a son kud evr rest in peace?

  430. Another perfect post, how do you gals always know what is going on in my head?

    joe jackson is a disgusting human being, MJ’s parents have been separated for a while which is why MJ gave the children to his mother

    we are fans of MJ’s music, he was a genius and eccentric when people are different they are usually ridiculed the way MJ was but the last 10 years or so of his life have been a cartoon

    about the pay off issue, I have a problem with that, if my child had been sexually abused by anyone no money in the world would make up for that, I would want the guilty sob jailed, taken off the streets so no other child is harmed so i question the parents decision who took that pay off and their honesty

  431. Hi Sistah Sally and gang,

    Just us wild-all-day-and-all-night-crowing-Hawaiian-chickens here. (Local Hawaiian joke.)

    I remembered that you said you were interested in taking up painting some time in the future. Trust me, you will need LOTS and LOTS of time. Anyhow, I am starting a new one for our oldest son for Christmas. It will take me that long!

    The last time we were on the mainland, he treated our whole West Coast family to a day- long trip on a sailing vessel all over the Monterrey Bay. It was a perfectly delightful day! Naturally we have tons of photos of that trip from everybody. I’m doing a composite painting of the Bay and other sailing vessels on the water along with fond memories.

    Since you and I are both ‘lefties’ I thought I could give you a few tips I have learned the hard way from some 40-odd years of rank amateur painting. (As a kid, I could never learn to knit and crochet because those trying to show me how were all right handed. It just didn’t make any sense to me. As an adult I did teach myself to crochet from a book however.) I had only three formal painting lessons. That’s a hilarious story in itself!

    My parents had some very dear friends. As I was growing up, we families did stuff together. One of the men had two PASSIONS – fishing in remote lakes in the Rocky Mountains for rainbow trout (we had to hike into those lakes over non-existent trails) and painting. He remembered what he saw and then painted it. I watched him at work any number of times and he became a sort of unwitting mentor. I asked him a jillion questions. We have one of his large oils, three of his watercolors and nine wonderful paintings of Rocky Mountain birds. He did the birds when he was 85.

    An interesting side benefit of painting is that wherever I go I take notice of everything in perhaps a different perspective. The sky, the clouds, the countryside, the ‘cities,’ the people. I unconsciously think how I might sketch, how I would mix the paints to get those particular colors, etc. It’s fun. And then when I am actually painting with my favorite music on the stereo, well I am transported to a different universe. Not a care in the world!

    Anyhow, I could check you out on how to get started, what kind and where to get supplies out here, if you are interested.


    Auntie Jean

  432. Helen, thanks for another marvelous column. I love the hypocrisy rules. You and Margaret are very talented writers.

    James, my heart goes out to you. May you find peace.

    greytdog, good idea for a new occupation for Colorful, LOL. Certainly more guidance is needed for politicians like Sanford and Palin, who have such trouble keeping commitments and telling the truth.

    Colorful, if you so dislike this website, why torture yourself and us by coming here? Jesus is my Savior, the Lord is my God, and I’m quite certain they both have a sense of humor you somehow lack. If they didn’t, they’d have given up on humans long ago.

  433. I don’t believe that Michael was a pedophile. I think his childhood was stolen from him by his greedy-ass father. Imagine the pressure he was under for his entire life to follow up perfection (Thriller) at such a young age and not succeed? Then to have people “feeding” off of you like leeches constantly?

    I honestly believe he snapped at some point, and, as one psychologist noted, he reverted to the mentality of a ten-year-old. Who knows what his real state of mind was? All anyone knows is, he was a tortured soul of genius proportions.

    I hope he’s found his peace, now.

  434. May the best radicals win! That’s great!

  435. A quote from Helen back in October ’08

    “One more thing. The only comments that really made me mad were the fools that came here preaching the bible and all that pro-life crap. Most pro-life nut cases need to actually get a life and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing. Sarah Palin had the choice to talk to her daughter about sex. Her daughter had the choice to listen or not listen. Her daughter had the choice to have sex or not have sex. And once she was pregnant she had the choice to keep the baby, put it up for adoption or terminate the pregnancy. And as much as it scares me that the Palin clan is producing a whole new generation of women like my old friend Sally, the fact is they have a choice. All I ask is that women respect the right of other women to make their own choice because I remember what it was like when we didn’t have a choice.”

  436. “Personally I think this idea that men can’t discuss or have an opinion on abortion rights is silly. If post-menopausel women can discuss it, why shouldn’t males?”

    That’s not logical, silly, post-menopausal women might have had to make that choice, and males haven’t and never will. Many of us post-menopausal women did everything we could in our lives NOT to become pregnant, but for those for whom “everything” didn’t work, THEY were the ones whose lives were going to change in one way or another. No man will ever have to deal with that.

  437. Happy 4th Margaret and Helen!!!!

  438. Helen said You can’t be Pro-Life and Pro-War at the same time.

  439. Jon Stewart moment of zen:


  440. Yes, I think we beat that dead horse enuf.
    Oops, sorry PETA. It was already dead. really.

  441. Brava Jean!
    Let’s all end it there and have some pie!

  442. Hi gang,

    We seem to be back around to the abortion issue once again. Pro-life, pro-choice or whatever anybody wants to call it. I have previously expressed my views here on this and other hot button issues. I think it all boils down to personal opinion.

    It’s not my mission in life to impose my point of view on others or to condemn those who oppose mine.

    There are no easy cut-and-dried answers. These problems are as old as human nature itself.



  443. Stacy, I think Richard is a girl named Tiffini. Dots the i’s with little hearts.

  444. Isn’t it interesting how the trolls come out? Altho I’m starting to think that these aren’t trolls at all. . . I’m visualizing cockroaches – the kind that scurry around whenever light shines on their beady little heads. . .and like cockroaches, they just keep coming back. Truly, where’s Nolan?

  445. Helen,
    Thanks for once again putting forward some good things to think about. I do adore you!

  446. And I think “Richard Kellerman” is a AssHat!! :-)

  447. I think “Helen” is a man named Ken.

  448. Helen you are a Hoot and a Half!!!!

  449. There’s a war going on for your mind…

  450. “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.”

    Ephesians 6:12

  451. Margaret and Helen,
    We love you here in France!
    Thank you for the term “AssHat” and for much more. Come to Paris and see what REAL pastry is like!!

  452. …regarding hypocrisy…

    Shorter Glenn Dreck
    & his NeoCon Guest:

    ‘We need to get attacked again in order to get the protection we need!’

    So we can ‘Stay the Course’.


  453. Ultimately, at some point we will get back to Roe vs Wade and if that gets overturned the question of choice will disappear. But that will not be the end of abortion.

    I’ve alluded to this story before but it is worth repeating. I was born in the late 1920’s and when walking to school in the early thirties my brothers always walked on the side of the street opposite a large Victorian house, not unlike the one in the movie Psycho, where a lot of traffic passed in and out of the yard every day. I didn’t understand their reluctance until a couple years later when the 5th grade schoolyard bully described what was going on inside there in gory and graphic terms. It was an abortion mill that catered to the poorest of the poor and never seemed to suffer from a lack of clients.

    During the Great Depression the chances of having an abortion under these circumstances was a severe health risk. There were no antibiotics at the time and pregnancies were mostly unplanned. The only birth control available was either the rhythm method for Catholics, a chancy proposition at best, and condoms for everyone else, – if you could find a pharmacy that had them and if you could afford to buy them. For many of the people passing through those Victorian doors, additional children in a household on the ragged edge of starvation would have affected the whole family and the prudent choice, and often the only choice, was an illegal abortion.

    The following year the abortion mill closed after woman’s death and following a police raid the house was abandoned. After a year of inactivity I, along with a couple ten-year-old friends, decided it would be fun to get inside the house and see what was left there. We got into the basement through a broken window and found ourselves in the room where the abortions took place. It was a dark and dirty place, by now infested with spiders and god knows what else, and still had a heavy carbolic acid smell. We laughed at the thing that looked like a barber’s chair with a couple individual foot rests but got the hell out of there in a hurry when a creak was heard somewhere upstairs. The image is still vivid today and every time I smell carbolic acid, the grim image comes back.

    We moved the next year but the new city we moved to had a similar house. Only this one never seemed to get raided by the police. The place was still in operation until the middle 1970’s, even after the Roe v Wade case made it through the Supreme Court and, I believe, was later turned into a apartment project that was light on the house’s history when the units were being rented.

    Abandon Roe v Wade and the abortion mills will be back, – guaranteed.

  454. That’s a wrap…..Thanks Folks!
    More drama tomorrow!! :-)

  455. aaaannnd SCENE.

  456. James

    Miscarriages was more my wife’s problem, she wouldn’t give up trying for a second (her second) child……. hard on me too, but much harder on her….

  457. I think Margaret dated Karl Malden back in ’43.

  458. Leigh, good idea but wrong country. We should send the Christian Right to Afghanistan – i.e Tora Bora area – to duke it out with Al Qaeda & the Taliban.

  459. Poolman, thanks. An exorcism. I never thought of that. The real injustice is I live a good life but that man and his daughter burn to death in my head, over and over again.

    I write a little column for a county newspaper. People seem to like it. I wrote about that night, and my wife could have killed me. Someone told me he saves all of my stories except that one.

    I like the two pp’s. Heh Heh.

    Morgan, thanks too. I don’t have much artifice. When something bothers or pleases me, I let it out. Some people here don’t like me, others do, and more don’t care. I felt safe with my vent since most of you seem like kind decent people. I had to “talk” to someone before I got to sleep.

    Thanks ATine. I like Edna St. Vincent Millay, too. I wish I could write as well as she did.

    Kieth, I like how you put it. When I had a colonoscopy, I didn’t fall completely asleep as I was supposed to. I commented on the tunnel in the moniter. The doctor said they couldn’t shut me up.

    Werner, I’m sorry for your reproductive hardships. I can’t think of much worse than five miscarriages. One was bad enough for us, but five? It must have been Hell for you. I’m sorry.

    I already posted my opinions about abortion in another section. However I will add this. When I was in grad school, a woman told my wife that having a child was the same as shtg a watermelon. The imagery is memorable when I buy a watermelon.

    We also contemplated abortion when I was in the Air Force. A baby then would have made it more difficult to pay for grad school, and I might have stayed in the service. Yet, killing it was unfair to the baby. Two days later, we discovered my wife wasn’t pregnant and our quandry was resolved. It was an awful couple of days.

    I have another secret which illustrates the vaugeries of government burearoacracy, but I don’t want people laughing and falling out of their chairs, so I will keep it too myself.

  460. ‘The Christian Right should be forced to spend a week in Iran. May the best radicals win. ‘

    Helen, You are wonderful!!

  461. Karl Malden has died.

  462. Execution by electrocution is indeed inhumane, which is why we don’t do that anymore.

  463. Mageen – it’s a really old old story – harkens back to at least the Roman era. Unfortunately, blood lust never changes. But I think the gaming industry would tank if we started live broadcasts – after all who needs Halo 2 when you can have the real thing right there in HDTV in your living room?

  464. greytdog,

    When I was in HS (or perhaps in my first year in college…..late 80s) California aired an execution on TV. It was probably aired nationwide, and it was probably on a news program…I don’t remember all the details. However, I do vividly remember the execution. As avid supporters of the death penalty, and thinking it would scare my siblings and me into being model citizens, my parents made us watch it. It was death by electrocution and it was nauseating. I don’t know how anyone can see that and still be desensitized enough to support the death penalty — it is inhumane and revolting.

    I agree with you that anyone who would demand the death penalty, sentence it, vote for it, or in any other way partake in it should have to witness it in person. I know that witnessing the one execution I saw on TV 20 years ago was enough to stir compassion in my soul for the dignity of human life…..and enough to make me oppose it regardless of how heinous the crime.

  465. Abortion seems to be the topic that will never die. Keith, thanks for admitting you don’t have ‘skin in the game’.

    Too many men have developed strong emotions about abortions, and that is fine, but they assume they know enough to decide for a woman. For whoever commented that a man has as much right to an opinion as a menopausal woman, at least the woman has thought about the subject with the reality that it might be something she would have to think about. For that person, I give your opinion as much weight as the men in the 70s who told me to shut up about the draft because I would never be drafted. No, but it didn’t keep me from being opposed to the draft.

    FWIW, my opinion is that an abortion is nobody’s decision but the woman who is pregnant. The father can discuss the matter with her but should have no means to override her decision. Same story with the courts regarding minors. I have seen too many cases of courts refusing abortions for children under 12 years old.

  466. TOO MUCH INFORMATION FOLKES!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

  467. Calling greytdog!

    Your idea for public executions, usually via TV, is an old one. Can you imagine some of the most famous brand names in the world – not just this country – competing for air time like the Super Bowl commercials? ‘Fraid that is what would happen! People would remember the fireworks in the commercials rather than “educational tv”.

    Yup, killing people in public used to be public entertainment. Just ask all the asshats who organized lynchings in this country. Watching somebody strangle at the end of a rope was considered good for the kiddies!!!!!!!!!!

  468. but I will refrain from further comments today (EXCEPT WHEN PROVOCED)
    for your and my peace of mind

  469. Skippy,
    in the early 70′s at age 15 and 17 when the first 2 happened we where not really concentrating on using “rubber boots” and the last one was my then girlfriends, now wifes, pill failing, so what is this about love blind you don’t get?

  470. Go away, Damn Skippy, unless you can participate intelligently. Never heard of birth control failing? Might want to crawl out from under the rock you apparently live under and look around at the real world for a little while.

  471. —”and yes, there are those of us who don’t “let the girls take care off it” while partying in the next bar” —

    What part about “use a condom” didn’t you understand Wermer?

  472. And BTW as a father of 4 living children that went through 3 abortions with people he is / was very close (and yes, there are those of us who don’t “let the girls take care off it” while partying in the next bar) and also went through 5 miscarriages with my wife, I think I do have a word or two to say on this topic, even if I don’t really NEED to justify myself to anyone.

    nuff for now!

  473. Tonya

    how do things work with you?

    Some asshat comes along and insults you and you go off to the medicine cabinet and take a pill to calm down?

    Sorry, not with me!

    You get what you ask for!

  474. IMO until you actually have to make the decision about whether or not to have an abortion & then live with the consequences (whatever they may be) of your decision, then what you add to the depth of the conversation is measurable by solely by the height of your wellies.

  475. Take your meds, Werner.

  476. Ass-kee from Colorado

    up your’s too!

  477. Big hug to you, Morgan! :-)

  478. I was wondering if this commentary was going to go deeper into a discussion on abortion rights. It seems to be going there, and I’m hoping the more sober posters join in. The emotionally charged cyber-yelling at people and discounting them chokes off the discussion of what is one of the most significant and divisive issues we face today. Maybe this isn’t the time or place. Or maybe people just think there’s nothing left to be discussed.

    Or maybe sometimes it’s better for everyone if you don’t always try to be the smartest and funniest one in the room. Especially on the blog of someone who is smarter and funnier than all of the commenters put together.

    Anyway, to me that’s the problem with discussion on abortion rights – a lot of people think there’s nothing left to be discussed. If you’ve thought it through and aren’t stupid or evil then there’s only one conclusion to come to on any and all abortions.

    Well, personally I lack a strong conviction on late term abortion. Seems to me that it would be awfully hard to regulate though. And IMO there are lies being told to support both sides of the argument. Many sources are suspect and the search for information becomes a roll in the land of confusion for me. I’m glad you know when you’re being lied to. It’s not always as clear to me.

    And James. It feels kind of strange to be privy to these secret parts of you, but I’m all in.

    As far as MJ, I think the media can suck it on that one.

  479. Haven’t commented in a while, but I’ve been a loyal reader. Love your List! I don’t care for Michael Jackson, because I do believe he was a pedophile. I think his life was sad. His father pimped him out, and apparently is still pimping instead of grieving. One of the best lines I’ve heard so far is that Michael had to be a man while he was a boy, and then became a boy as a man. Maybe that’s how he justified what he did. A very confused and tortured soul. Wonder when the doctor is going to be charged as his dope pusher?

  480. Werner (or is it Wormer), ease up on that bleach. It makes you sound like an angry white male.

  481. We would like to invite Helen and Margaret (if possible) to speak at our Ladies Luncheon in Round Rock, Texas in August. I will try to contact you through your email, I guess??

  482. Margaret and Helen, you are both so honest and refreshing to read! And so right! I watch each week for your posts and it’s a happy day when I see a new rant posted. Keep writing!

  483. Don’t feed the trolls, Wern Man.

  484. Helen,
    You are so clever. I just adore your writing. How I do look forward to each and every post. Happy Fourth to you and Margaret!!!!

  485. Tanner
    one more and I “tan” your hide……
    …and belive me. as a Germ,an I know a thing ot two about that!

    Ass-Hat & Cie.

  486. Sherry,

    Great Response to Tradesman. The idiots like UAW and the talking heads make stuff up and expect us to take their absurd examples for fact.

    A decision to have an abortion should be a decision between a doctor and the woman. It is not an easy decision but it should be an option.

    Late Term abortions are not very common but that option should be available.

  487. Loved this one Helen! As always, you are so perceptive. I was thinking just this morning about how the radical Islamists are so much like the Christian right in our country. Saw a piece about a place in Lahore, Pakistan where men and women can gather together, so the radical Islamists are throwing bombs into it. Sounds so much like how our right wing deals with abortion clinics or anything else they don’t like. Stay well and keep those posts coming to us!!

  488. Anyone know how I could buy a Margaret & Helen T-Shirt??

  489. I smell Trolls….nobody move….

  490. The man in the miror just touched me innapropriately.

  491. What kind of mileage you gals get on those scooters?

  492. Enough with the Jewish comments already.

  493. I think Michael Jackson was cute…from about 1979 until 1983….then again around 1987 until 1992. After that he pretty much looked like my Aunt Katherine.

  494. Oh my. There were ducks and fire trucks and I was like what is all this?

  495. Cleanup on aisle 10, please. A pile of neocon-neoNazi-psychopathic sludge is creating a safety hazard.

  496. Some people just like to stir the pot. That is what brings them pleasure, IMO.

  497. I had a duck named Bonnie.

  498. I would have named her Bonnie.

  499. Sherri – spot on. But you seem to forget one thing – UAW is an idiot. He proves it almost every time he posts.

  500. Okay….I know Sherri is a jew.

  501. Just thought I’d weigh in on the pro-choice/anti-death penalty view that UAW insists on debating.

    UAW, you say you’re using the extreme example of a woman at 33-weeks getting a late term abortion b/c she is hot and uncomfortable BECAUSE another poster used the extreme example of it being discovered that a fetus had no liver. The major difference here is your example is a fabrication while the other example is a true incident.

    The fact is, we’re all smart enough to know that no medical doctor is going to perform a late-term abortion simply because the pregnant mother is hot…what a waste of our time and an offense to our intellect to have to read that argument ad nauseum…so, please give us something a little more intelligent or move on to a topic you can debate with more intellect.

    I think part of your problem, UAW, is that you consistently refer to a fetus and a deathrow inmate as “a gob of meat” or “a problem to rid ourselves of” — while others consider the dignity of human life carefully and heavily before making their decisions. You assume you know what others are thinking and you give no one the benefit of being compassionate and empathetic. Then again, we all know you choose inflammatory topics because you like to debate and you would argue with those who agree with you if that was your only option!

    But I’ll bite anyway –

    I am prochoice because it is compassionate and empathetic to be so. I believe in the goodness of humankind enough to believe that a pregnant woman and her doctor will choose life as often as possible and choose abortion only when the life of either the mother or the baby is at stake. I believe no one has the right to make uninformed medical decisions for anyone. As with ALL medical issuses, the patient should be solely responsible for making their own decisions with the advice and support of whomever the patient seeks out.

    Because you always revert to extremes and you always seem to assume the worst of others, your best argument is that pregnant women use abortion as a means of birth control or convenience when they become uncomfortable. That is the same hate-mongering, fear-mongering, ridiculous rhetoric that the ring-wing neocons feed you when they tell you that same-sex marriage is going to destroy the sanctity of marriage. Surely you’re smarter than to swallow that hook, line, and sinker.

    I am anti-death penalty because we know the effectiveness of the judicial system is nowhere near perfect — we don’t always “get the right guy” as DNA tests have proved over and over again. Racism is clearly a huge factor in deciding who gets the death penalty and who gets a life sentence, and we should always oppose racism in all its forms. The death penalty does not deter crime. And it cannot be morally justified. I’d like to think that as a society, we can move beyond the blood-lust mentality of the Roman gladiators and spectators who filled their ampitheaters in anticipation of making sport of public executions.

    UAW, you are a cut-and-dry thinker. Everything to you is black and white, so you assume everyone thinks that way. Everyone either agrees with you 100% or opposes you 100%. The problem is, life is neither black-and-white nor cut-and-dry. Most adults over 40 have had enough life experience to realize this and develop some sense of compassion and empathy with this realization. However, there are the likes of Anne Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, et al, who become cold-hearted and hateful toward those who disagree with their sense of morality and make choices that differ with their “personal standard of ethics” (even though their ethics waver based on convenience!)

    It would do your heart and soul good, UAW, to start assuming goodwill in others and to try to understand their viewpoints with compassion and empathy, even when you disagree.

    It would do all of us good to assume goodwill in others before we judge them or react to them. Keeping that in mind, I’m going to assume that UAW thrives on inflammatory debate and throwing blanket statements out there so frequently because he is trying to decide what he really thinks about some important issues and that’s his way of discovering what others think so that he can figure out his own stance without just relying on the right-wing republicans to think for him. To that end, I applaud you, UAW, for not gulping their kool-aid.

  502. Lah-dee-dah Poodle Clippie

  503. All this mess began with the Jews. Helen, you’re not Jewish, are you?

  504. As someone who has lived through the hell of an abortion I can tell you will all certainty that you should never have unprotected sex with a gay. trumpet-playing, twin. It will make your hair curl.

  505. I am wondering where the other gloves went. I am also wondering if Joe Jackson ever ate any of his kids. It sure looks that way.

  506. TMI

  507. You put your right foot in. You take your right foot out. You put your right foot in, and you shake it all about…

    It is interesting getting to know you all here in cyberspace.

    James. Wow. I think an exorcism might be needed if you want peace. Serious stuff. Still seeing 2 “p”s in your sorry. Interesting.

  508. Keith
    short explanation of the term “boring hetero”:

    When living in Hamburg Germany, me and my wife (Well, then girlfriend) where 2 of maybe 10% hetero clientel in a transvestite / Homo Bar in Hamburg (“Toom Peerstall”, in case you heard about it, it is know even in Brazil) and there, for our other Bar “mates” we where the “boring heteros” while they where the “One track Homos/Lesbos”.

    We definitly had a hoot everytime we went there and the reason to come back again and again (3 -4 times per week) was just that we could feel as free as our neighbours and no one bothered us, while I had some of my most interessing bar conversations there.

    And all the name calling and “banting”(?) was on a stricly humorous basis with lot’s of love, and when the one troll or other hit the place we where always sharing the fun to show him or her where “the carpenter left the hole”….

    Best ever experience was when I and a lesbian girl-friend of mine, after several beers and shooters, went out together into the Hamburg redlights (more a dance-club music-bar area now) to pickup some girls for the night, didn’t bring anything home, oh, but what a time we had……

  509. UAW, the analogy you keep making WRT to abortion and the death penalty is fine to make in theory — have fun with it if you like — but it’s useless. It doesn’t reflect reality. Late-term abortions rarely, if ever, occur for a trivial reason. It just doesn’t happen, no matter how much radical anti-choicers would like people to believe that it does.

    James: I’m glad you’ve made peace with your many ghosts. And I love that Edna St. Vincent Millay poem. I just finished reading her biography…what an eye-opener!

  510. Thanks Sherri Δ; my greyhound thanks you too! He’s a bit miffed cuz I haven’t had a chance to change the avatar to his picture though. . .destuffed three toys this morning. House looks like rampaging toddlers have pillaged and plundered it. . .

    GreatGrey (from Mudflats blog) noted that SP wanted to go hiking the Appalachian Trail. . .and asked her staff for a map of Africa. . .what a snark!

  511. Greytdog
    whoever said that the Appalachians don’t extend until Argentinia?
    Are you a geologista?
    And how should the Dinos have made it there (biggest Dino cemetary on the planet, see) in that short while (6000 years doesn’t give you much time for such a long hike…..)

    Well, lets send Sanford the Dino to his croonies and maybe, just maybe ask Sarah for an expertise on the Appalachian thingy? (Well she SEAMS to be an expert on Dinos already…..)

  512. UAW — greytdog is so gracious, she’d never mention this, but you get her name wrong EVERY time you address her. Think “GREYhounds are GREAT dogs” and you’ll understand her play on words.

    I’m just thinking as frequently as you specifically address her comments, it would be courteous — respectful, even — to get her moniker right!

  513. Joe Jackson is the devil.

  514. A KFAB Omaha gossip columnist said yesterday that sperm and egg donors created the Jackson children. Did he and his wife legally adopt them? If not, lawyers could make the estate negotiations more interesting than they already are.

    This morning he said that 18 months ago Micheal was in trouble. He couldn’t get access to his money and he was living in poor circumstances. He called Donny Osmond and asked for help Osmond referred him to some rich friends who helped Jackson re -finance his debt.

    He also said Janet is trying to convince her mother to leave their father.

  515. Can Margaret pop a wheelie on her scooter?

  516. MJ was extremely talented and innovative. I personally never believed that he was a sexual predator, but he was so weird and apparently out of his gourd on the most extreme RX downers that I suppose anything is possible.

    I never, ever, expect the media to tell me the truth. About anything. Doesn’t mean some of the things reported aren’t true, but I believe that truth is low on the list of priorities in general when it comes to the media.

    “How can anyone, male or female, be so prospestrus to just THINK they can take a way this decision, that belongs to the pregnant woman ALONE!?????” -quote

    Personally I think this idea that men can’t discuss or have an opinion on abortion rights is silly. If post-menopausel women can discuss it, why shouldn’t males?

  517. Whether or not MJ or anyone for that matter has grave offenses attached to his/her soul is not for cynthia1703 or anyone else to determine. That’s between MJ and G_d.

  518. Honolulu Sally, thanks for your concern. I tried every thing, including drawing on the Bank of the Universe, and playing the Secret Memory Game, of the Secret, but the screams repeat like a song that sticks in my head. I was a token veteran guest on NPR’s Talk of the Nation, Science Friday when they discussed a new de programing effort for returning Iraqi and Afghani veterans. They said with my history I was a “perfect storm.” A Vet Center counselor said the unique nature of the violence I had seen disturbed him. So, I have a flashback and vent. Then, I go on. We all carry scars. I got off easy. The poor guy who held the girl’s hand until it got too hot went nuts. If you have any suggestions, I would gladly try them.

    I rebuilt myself into someone I like and did the visualism thing over thirty years ago. I am richer and freer in what counts than most people I know. And I am still alive when I should have died at age 24. God gave me a huge present, which I have used. But there are some things you have to live with.

    Another thing that plays through my mind is the night I helped save a live. You can’t buy a better high. And for your wife to call you a hero even when you know it isn’t true…

    Life is good now, in spite of doom and gloom around us. I know things will get better, but a lot more people will be living through rough times first. The best way to cope is to be prepared.

    I used believe we will all be “compassionate, respectful and admirable.” I used to believe, and I respect you and Jean for still believing, but I can’t. Life always seems to turn out well for my wife and me, but for many others, not so much. Human nature doesn’t change, and it makes me sad.

    As you know, I am pro -choice. Since I introduced you to one of my ghosts, I offer a cautionary note to couples who chose abortion for whatever reason. Some become depressed and suffer other emotional problems after the fact. They should seek counseling just in case. I know how we felt when we lost our little son.

    Sam, if you only knew what my inner life is like… I wish I could bottle and sell it. And I got there without drinking, smoking, or doing drugs.

    ” My candle burns at both ends
    It shall not last the night
    But oh my friends and oh my foes
    It casts a lovely light.”

  519. Cynthia1703….oh…puhleeeze….
    Are you for real???

  520. Gr8 stuff!!! I doubt whether MJ is at peace with such grave offences attached to him/his soul!!!!

  521. Werner: Let no one ever tell you, or think yourself that you’re boring…. hetero may be an issue, but not boring!

    But I agree. A pregnant woman who finds herself in position that there’s even a thought of an abortion, however fleeting, already has a great deal on her plate with which to deal. And then to have such a heavy, emotionally, spiritually challenging decision to make, it simply boggles my mind at what she must have to go through to make ANY kind of decision. Particulary one in which there’s no going back, no do-overs at all. My heart and prayers go to any woman facing this kind of gravity in what would, all things being what they SHOULD, be a joyous time. But we know all things are rarely what they should be, much less what we’d like them to be.

    Keith in NM

  522. Margaret & Helen,
    Any plans for a Pie Party when the blog reaches 2 million hits?!?!?! :-)
    You Ladies Rock!!!!!!!

  523. And James: when I had my colonoscopy I asked for a doggie-bag of the drugs they gave me…. they didn’t take me seriously…. evidently they DID you!

    Sorry, I couldn’t resist that, but I do know what it’s like to be haunted by something… most of us do if we’ll only admit it, to ourselves first then others.

    Good luck,
    Keith in NM

  524. Kyle, no one really knows what’s going on in Iran – the clerical councils are undergoing a power play, you have old revolutionaries fighting old revolutionaries and using the same playbook to maneuver & outflank one another. . . hundreds if not thousands of protesters have been arrested, beaten, tortured into what the neocons would probably state were true confessions. . .and many are missing now with the families being told to go home and never mention their names again. . .people were all over the “sea of green” until the death of MJ & the continuing saga of Sanford. . .that’s about it. . . oh and an earthquake rumbled the island of Crete this morning, was felt in Cairo, & the tsunami warning agency failed to broadcast a tsunami warning of the Med Sea area. . .big oops there.

  525. Colorful: I’d suggest a colonoscopy….. it’s possible they might find what crawled up you and died to make you such a cynical, bitter old fool.

    Keith in NM

  526. Keith:
    …While I’m not wild about the idea of abortion in our commercially driven, throw-away culture, I’m not the one pregnant. What/who gives me the right as a male to determine the best course of action for a woman. ….

    While I am a boring Hetero male you still speak my heart on this.

    How can anyone, male or female, be so prospestrus to just THINK they can take a way this decision, that belongs to the pregnant woman ALONE!?????

    Offer help. aide for whatever decision will be made, YES, but taking the decision FOR her, this just makes me wanna puke!

    I just hope that anyone that belives he/she can do that gets struck by lightning next time they take a shit…….

  527. I want whatever James is smoking…

  528. Thank you for this! I have been without a computer now for about five or six months and I have come to depend on CNN and other such news channels for my news coverage but all it’s been about is MichaelMichaelMichael and now I haven’t a clue what’s going on in Iran or world politics, or even local politics besides this Sanford business, in general! Still loving your articles.

  529. Colorful are you still around??? Might I suggest that you offer yourself up as spiritual advisor to Mark Sanford? His current ones seem to have screwed up.

  530. Okay. Now this is an awesome, loving, and accepting eulogy.


    (snark alert: Joe Jackson must be throwing a hissy fit right about now. . .1…2…3….will being filed with the LA Courts. Estate to be placed in trust – no money for Papa only mama)

  531. Colorful, God spoke to me in your post. I know you are sincere. You can contribute. Less condemnation will win more souls. Jesus was not comfortable among the “righteous”.

  532. Hi Sistah Sally,

    Late night Hawaiian time again for us. Your wrote:

    “How’s about an America emerging from the current financial, moral, educational, hateful downslide to a united, compassionate, respected and admirable one.”

    Well said!!!!!!!!

    We’re getting there, one baby step at a time. Let’s forget the past except to learn from previous mistakes and move on. Optimism trumps pessimism every time!


    Auntie Jean

  533. James, give up the ghost. I don’t know how, but find a way.

    Have you seen the movie “The Secret”? Thought becomes reality.

    You like to “predict” and then have a pretty good record of success. Try predicting a better life without ghosts.

    How’s about an America emerging from the current financial, moral, educational, hateful downslide to a united, compassionate, respected and admirable one.

    Stop the doom and gloom. Join the Aquarius crowd.

  534. Spot on, as always, Helen!

    I wasn’t knowingly a great fan of MJ because I seem to have been caught betwixt and between various pop cultures and generally preferred classical and jazz in any event. But having heard a lot of his music played during the past few days, I realize that I did recognize and enjoy many of his pieces. He was indeed a talented performer but clearly did not feel well in his skin, as they say hereabouts. I have been amazed, however, at any system that purports to be concerned for the welfare of children that would grant custody of MJ’s children to an arrangement that includes the person who abused their father. Keep Joe Jackson as far away from them as possible, IMO!

    I too love your rules about hypocrisy and, while I agree that so much of what is currently wrong with our country now came to fruition during the Reagan years, I believe that the real beginning was either with the assassination of JFK, or perhaps even earlier. There were some nasty things developing from WWI on and WWII only accelerated them, such as the former Nazis that were smuggled into the US to help develop our own weapons programs. I wonder whether we will ever know the real truth behind the Kennedy brothers’ assassinations. We found such convenient scapegoats for both that it was easy to stop looking for the truth.

    I also want to be you when I grow up … I’m still about 20 years behind you agewise. Love you both … and about 99% of the posters here as well! Those who really believe that this site is governed by Satan should avoid it, IMO. But they keep coming back. LOL

  535. Fantastic post!

  536. Oh, bravo! So glad I found this blog!

  537. Colorful: Keep coming back and crying! You could be the 2 millionth person to check it out!

    That would be pretty impressive!

    Jesus thinks you are nuts and misrepresenting him.

    Here is what he said in tongues: jfklfouorjlkfeocolorfulisnutserueionofnoroeaeferlejajdo

  538. Jimmy Z will you know this is me or will you just flee? Jimmy Z tried to touch me where I pee. Jimmy Z is free from noon til three but after that he’ll charge you a buck fifty-three. Oh Jimmy Z keep that thing away from me.

  539. Colorful, I recall reading in the Bible something about not judging people. Perhaps you should spend your time reading the good book as opposed to internet sites you do not approve of.

  540. Michael Jackson was the greatest artist to ever visit this planet. Sadly he could not adjust to our world well. He could have shown us so much but we ruined him early and he was lost. He has gone back to his home planet now and I am sure will be fine. There is no body to view only a vessel left behind.

  541. May the peace of the Lord find you soon lest you burn in hell tomorrow. I cry whenever I visit this site and see that all of you are still here. This site has proven that is it from Satan and yet you all still follow. May God have mercy on your SOUL. Worship false idols and you will be damned.

  542. What the hell was that?

  543. I have no emotional attachment to Micheal Jackson, but he was undeniably talented and misused. He never had a childhood, and I think he was trying to create what had been denied him.

    He was a weird man people mocked near the end. Now that he is dead, he has become a great entertainer everyone wants a piece of. They are vultures circling the carrion.

    Tonight, I don’t care about much of anything except for my dream of the ghost which has been with me since age 19. I appolgize for foisting such a dark mood on you, but I certainly can’t tell my wife. Just scroll on by.

    “This truck is on fire
    as smoke blows above
    The fire rages so hot above
    But the steel is so heavy on top.

    A therapist said not to see you no more
    She said you’re like a disease
    without any cure
    She said I’m so obsessed
    that I’ve become a bore
    But I still think you’re so pretty.

    I hold your hand tightly still
    Pulled your fingers toward the door
    the heat it cuts like a knife
    You scream as we tug and pull
    Flames consume your clothes
    I pray for a garden hose
    In the flickering light You are so pretty

    Lit up all of my house
    Saw you lying on my floor
    I locked you out
    You cut a hole in my skull
    I found you crying next to me
    I thought I was alone
    You’re driving me crazy
    When are you going home?

  544. Excellent blog, as always.

    I never bought into the molestation charges. With the number of kids that visited Neverland, the mere few who charged him should have been much larger. When one person comes forward and sues, the hords follow. Yet, they didn’t. The money grubbers were sure out there, though.

    May he RIP and may Al and Jessie and Joe rot in hell. The former two go wherever there is controversy and a camera. Joe is just an evil man.

    As for the skin bleaching, the skin disease Vilwhateveritscalled causes pigment loss and blotching. Being in the public eye and discolored like that would prompt any celebrity into having their skin bleached so it all matched.

  545. Helen, I want to be you when I grow up. I know I’ve said this before, but it’s true.

  546. Nan, not sure if “hijacked” is an accurate term. . .maybe we all just sort of took the posting for a hike along the Appalachian Trail. . .& wound up in Argentina???

    (sorry folks, couldn’t resist)

  547. UAW, if the AssHat fits…wear it.

  548. P.S. Looks like your post got hijacked by the abortion issue; and I really do think that it’s strictly a woman’s own decision, that abortion must be an option, and that any man, group, or government body who has anything else to say about it is out of line and probably out of their mind as well.

  549. I gotta hand it to you, you sure do always hit the nails square on the heads! Everything is Reagan’s fault, we are increasingly a nation of hypocrits, and the conservatives most certainly should spend time in the middle east. Thank you!

  550. Pro-Life dictates that all life is sacred. Pro-war dictates that innconet life extinquished due to war is unfortuantely but morally justifiable. Kind of goes against the “all life is sacred” argumetn becuase add the tagline ” but only sometimes”.

  551. UAW. Pro-Choice is different than Pro-Abortion but at its core the argument is about a woman’s right to privacy in her healthcare decisions and her ability to pursue happiness. The argument is not about taking a life as the definition of “life” is in question. With a death penalty, life is not in question and death is certain regardless of health or happiness. You argument is flawed.

    You should also know that 90% of women who go in for a “late term” abortion do so for one of two reasons. 1. They desire to give birth but they have just had the first opportunity to test for a fetal abnomality or dangerous pregnancy and the test has – sadly – come back with undesireable results. 2. They are a young teen usually under the age of 15 having either been in denial or ignorance about the preganancy and have come to the decision to terminate late in the process. Interestingly enough, most of the these women come in for the abortion with the full support and consent of family and loved ones including the parent(s) of the teen in quesiton.

    Based on your post you have experienced (albeit indirectly) an unintended pregnancy out of wedlock and a miscarriage. That does not make you an expert in any way on the decisions women make in consultation with their doctors. It makes you a concerned bystander at best.

    As far as the death penalty goes – my argument against it has less to do with taking a life and more to do with an imperfect legal system which many times finds an innocent person quilty by mistake.

    Oh, and one more thing UAW. THe next time you want to talk about a woman’s issue as senstive as abortion from a man’s point of view, be sure to kiss my ass first.

  552. Hi Helen and Margaret,

    Another fine, insightful post, Helen. I like the way you think. Your rules make good sense. However, we all know that as soon as they hit cyberspace, there were plenty of folks already busy, busy, busy finding ways to weasel around them!

    As for Michael Jackson. He spent his short life surrounded by parasites feeding off his talent and work. Apparently, he had no childhood. Little wonder that he tried to escape and reconstruct Never Never Land in an attempt, like Peter Pan, to find his lost boyhood.

    Now, in death, the piranha feeding frenzy continues………………



  553. [...] hypocrisy, Margaret and Helen, politics, pro-life, pro-war, radical religion, Reagan This from Margaret and Helen [...]

  554. [...] The Appreciation or Depreciation of Michael Jackson Good Lord Margaret.   I had no idea Michael Jackson was this popular.   I realize now, of course, that it was as [...] [...]

  555. Well, I can only say that a late term abortion usually means the mother’s life is in danger and the abortion is done to save her.

    I am against the death penalty because it is more expensive than life imprisonment, does not deter crime, and can be akin to torture. To me, they do not equate so it is a false analogy.

    UAW, I think I realize where you are coming from and I feel for you and your wife.

  556. kitkat…
    no I haven’t walked in their shoes but I did go with my girlfriend(and her mother)to have a pregnancy test done(rabbit lived)and 4 years latter took the same woman(now my wife)in because of bleeding and cramping and a little gob of stuff landed in the toilet…..the second thing happened 3 days after I told my dad he was going to become a grandfather….yes life can be traumatic…or shit happens….I threw out the 33weeks to be extreme but JuneauJoe talked about fetuses with no kidneys and other birth defects…..also extreme…..so lets get back to the hypocrisy of this…I started out with if pro life/pro war is being hypocritical than pro abortion/anti death penalty is also…. death penalty=late term abortion…..what’s the difference between 33 weeks and 20800 weeks…medically speaking neither should have been born…..and both are traumatic for the mothers….

  557. Great post! Yes, he was obviously very different … albeit extremely talented and creative! I always loved his music … especially in the 70′s and 80′s. I grew up with the Jackson 5 and MJ …

    Joe Jackson is an abusive, egocentric, greedy, tyrannical jackass who should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law way back when! He abused those children badly and was especially hard on MJ … sad.

    May MJ rest in peace ~ he probably didn’t feel as though he really belonged here … he was extremely unique. Thanks for the blog :)

  558. ethical abortion providers require patients to undergo psychological counseling – many clinics have pastoral counseling services available. . .and many clinics have post-abortion counseling services also. . . couples counseling is often available when requested. . . getting an abortion is not akin to the drive thru @ mickey d’s. . .

  559. UAW,
    do you know anyone who wanted an abortion this late that wasn’t in some horrible situation? I think those people may not exist other than in pro-life literature. After 12 weeks, there needs to be some pretty good reasons, not just that she is uncomfortable.

    I have not had to walk in those shoes, but I have friends that have. No one I know who has ever had to make that decision has made it lightly and it follows them for all the days of their lives. It is not something people do on a whim. No one is pro-abortion– it is something that is the last choice when all the other choices are exhausted.

  560. Wise words, indeed, Helen.

    Michael Jackson is being canonized by media/marketers and a gullible consuming public swallows every bit of it, hook, line and sinker. He should be remembered as multi faceted human being, with talents to attract attention and entertain, but also with many human failings. The manner in which he comported himself in his life was aberrant in my view and it made him an easy target to mock. But there is no point in speaking ill of the dead, and in a hundred years he will just be a small footnote to history.

    Joe Jackson’s comportment on the BET Awards red carpet Sunday, and then in front of the Encino compound on Monday was very telling of who he is and will always be, an inarticulate, cold, grasping opportunist, and it offers a lot of insight in to what the formative years for all the Jackson children might have been like.

    Joe Jackson will attempt to wring out every last opportunity to make a buck playing the role of the patriarch of the grieving family, but when the immediate publicity opportunities disappear, he will disappear back to Las Vegas, leaving Katherine Jackson to care for the extended family in Encino.

    “Pimp” comes to mind, as in Joe Jackson, pimping out his children.

  561. juneauJoe…
    yes there are always exceptions but how about the expectant mother changing her mind because its too hot and she’s sweaty……I’ve already said I’m pro choice……and I’ve got adopted relatives because Uncle Whatever couldn’t keep his think in his pants(and they found their real mother when they were in there 40′s)….your talking one side(medical emergencies) and I’m talking the other(I want)…and I already said I’m for induced miscarriages…..are you saying that if a mother decides that she wants an abortion in the 33 week because it’s to hot and she’s uncomfortable it’s OK…… and if so how is that different than the death penalty…both are getting of something that is bothering you….

  562. Okay, I just HAVE to comment on the pro/anti-choice issue:

    I am uniquely, completely, totally unqualified to comment….. I’m a male. It’s genetically impossible for me to understand what a woman must go through in such a situation.

    While I’m not wild about the idea of abortion in our commercially driven, throw-away culture, I’m not the one pregnant. What/who gives me the right as a male to determine the best course of action for a woman.

    Note: the fact that I’m a gay male rules out me being on the male side of the decision process, should the male be invited to be involved. However, I’ve raised a couple of throw-away kids, with mixed results, but I did it. Thank God for making me gay so that I didn’t have to do it from start to finish… with today’s kids they might not have survived one of MY fits!

    Keith in NM

    PS….. yeah, someone should dig a hole for Daddy Joe. Sorry, that was mean (not).

  563. Can’t Sanford shut up? See this link:


    This guy should resign.

    So many Iranian protesters have been placed into custody, they are being kept in sports stadiums.


    The protesting has stopped for now, but may continue.

    Al Franken is the new MN senator. Palin says she could beat BO in a footrace. I guess there is news out there besides MJ’s death.

  564. Thank you, Helen. I agree about the coverage on MJ.

    I read he died the moment TMZ posted it on Thursday, but it didn’t hit me until Sunday. I have to say, as someone who doesn’t get attached to entertainers, when I finally processed the news, I was devastated. MJ’s Dangerous tour was my very first concert at 10-years old. He was my very first crush and despite his eccentricities, I loved him and his talents. I know he hadn’t performed for a long time, but just the thought of not seeing him perform ever again, is sad. Very sad. I didn’t much care for the the coverage on TV, and decided not to watch. In fact, I became angry at the media for being one of the reasons for his downfall. They praised him, then they destroyed him… only to praise him again? I’m sorry, but that’s what I call BS.

    When you see a little child in a village in Africa doing the moonwalk and wanting to be like him, you realize how big MJ really was. Too big, infact, for his own good.

    Simply put, I will miss him.

    Thank you, ladies, for the topic/forum. I needed to write this.

  565. Re abortion as MY mom sees it (she’s 86 and from the “old country”): It will go on ANYWAYS. Women have been choosing abortion (self-induced or, what Mom remembers, with the aid of a midwife) for many, many years, despite society’s laws. My Mother is a devout Catholic, but on this issue even she agrees that legal abortion must be kept as an available choice for women.

  566. JJ, yeah like a dirt nap.

  567. Tradesman:

    I had a 15 year old girl student who kept wearing a coat. When we finally got it off of her after a lot of coaxing, we found she was pregnant and the big coat covered it. Child Services found out the girl had been the poker prize for dad and his buddies for the past year or so.

    She was given the option of abortion and took it and I DO NOT BLAME HER! Am I in favor of abortion – NO, however, if one of my 3 daughters got raped or gang raped and was pregnant. I would say abortion is an option.

    You are very narrow minded Tradesman. You need to consider real life situations.

    I am sad that MJ is gone but there is overkill on the coverage. Dad Jackson should take a long nap.

  568. Great post!

    I am truly sorry MJ has died.

    I am tired of the 24/7 coverage by CNN of his life and death.

    What happened to the coverage of the Iranian protests?

    I imagine Sanford feels a bit lucky.

  569. UAW, google A Heartwrenching Choice. Not all pregnancies end in healthy happy babies. Late term abortions are exceptional cases.

    Pro-choice or pro-life, anyone who judges a mother who decides to end her pregnancy because her baby has no kidneys or other horrific tragedies and would not survive outside of the womb and probably is going to die inside the womb and take the mother’s life with it deserves a swift kick in the junk. The mothers of these babies grieve for their children.

    Nobody just changes their mind and has a late term abortion. Walk a mile… imagine you’re going to have a baby and you find out that something is horribly wrong, and you’re going to have to tell an older sibling that he/she’s not going to be a big brother after all.

  570. UAW,

    You got some far-fetched ideas. I bet you are fun at parties.

  571. UAW – are you asking me if I think abortion is wrong? The answer is no. Do I think it is immoral? No. Plain enough?

  572. graydog…
    you ducked the question….I am pro choice ….to a point….I have a problem if someone after 33 weeks decides to end a pregnancy….but if someone wants to have an induced miscarriage in the first trimester…that’s her choice….
    as far as a medical procedure…butchers have been doing them for centuries…the medical part just makes it safer……now if your pro abortion… is the taking of the fetus in the 33 week any different than a death penalty…..this is where a lot of the controversy comes in….
    and yes I’m pro death penalty and if someone raped/killed my wife (daughter or son) I wouldn’t have a problem shoving a shotgun barrel up their ass and pulling the trigger…and dragging them out into the woods for the buzzards/alligators to feed on….

  573. I still think Helen should be on the Supreme Court.

  574. On MJ – an abused child abusing children? maybe. But in all honesty, what parent allows a minor child to hang out for sleepovers at an adult male’s home? Unfortunately, I think MJ was surrounded by leeches – no wonder he tried to escape to Neverland. . . just a lost boy.

  575. UAW – I’m pro-choice – the decision to have or not have an abortion is, IMO, the woman’s right and not open to discussion with anyone else unless she so chooses. But ultimately, the right to choose is the woman’s. I personally don’t see abortion as evil nor do I wrap it up in theological issues. Abortion is a medical procedure – it only gets flak because we’ve warped it with all the theological bunting. Put that same bunting on organ transplants and let’s see how people react.

  576. from Pam Mc – “…mean spirited people who here and out on the internet YOU should all be ashamed of yourselves but are probably not smart enough to be! Regardless of your feelings,beliefs etc on Michael Jackson he is some one’s son, some one’s brother, some one’s Dad and if you believe in God or some one else he is their child too.”

    Pam Mc – I will have to disagree with you entirely. I don’t see any mean spirited people on this site.

    My first and last thought on his death are the children he abused in his life. Yes, there is enough evidence to indicate there are victims of his abuse just as he was abused. We can blame Joe Jackson for it. No doubt Joe was abused too as a child. The cycle of abuse is strong and very hard to break. It keeps flowing from generation to generation.

    The children of his abuse are still living. I will hold my passion for them.

  577. graydog….
    going back over the posts I began to wonder….I said pro abortion and you said pro choice…..I’m also pro choice…..I myself don’t know if I’m pro abortion but someone else can make the decision for themselves……you said you were pro choice but are you also pro abortion…….and yes…if pro life/pro war is hypocrisy then so is pro abortion/anti death penalty…

    what’s the difference between swatting out a piece of filth and a fly….ask PETA

  578. Great post. Other than letting us know that he is dead… and maybe a follow up after the autopsy is done.. I don’t care about the other stuff. Yes .. I LOVE his work.. I don’t want to be over-saturated with what the media wants me to know about him

  579. Michelle….

    “Their radicals pray three times a day and literally have Fashion Police who harrass and sometimes arrest improperly dressed women.”

    here it’s called PETA

  580. First time poster. Very impressed with your insight Helen. MJ was definitely a tortured soul. His parents are 79 years old!!! Who would allow those kids to be raised by such bad examples of parenthood??

    I only watched MJ videos this weekend. None of the coverage because I knew it was just going to get more and more bizzare.

  581. second greytdog on the death penalty, when you want to kill people, better stand ther and watch!

  582. Helen, nice rules. I particularly like the one about everything being Reagan’s fault!

    Yay, Franken!

    And Sanford!? It’s like he’s 12-stepping his infidelity addiction and we’re all sitting in his Sex-Addict Anonymous meeting.
    Somebody refill my coffee cup; I’m in for the whole session.


  583. graydog….
    “Furthermore, I advocate that all executions must be carried live on television as part of public service announcements etc. . . ”

    great idea…I’ll vote for it

  584. I want to borrow your clever quote about having the Christian right spend a week in Iran and may the best radicals win. Perfect!

  585. Great post Helen! Pro-Life and Pro-War. That about sums up the McCain/Palin crowd.

    Just got another idiot email from a sister-in-law blasted out to ALL concerned Americans – the outrage over “those” who want to take away our guns and how the murders and deaths have increased historically when gun control laws are in effect. Dumb as dirt. Spinning for no reason.

    Reagan and Nixon – the start of the Republic of the Republicans.

  586. Three years ago, my teenaged cousin visited us from Iran. It was her first visit to the US. Keeping in mind that I live in southern Lousiana (we liberals practically have to have a secret handshake), she told me that Americans don’t appear to be very religious…as we drove past a used car dealership with a sign reading “Jesus Loves You”.

    Their radicals pray three times a day and literally have Fashion Police who harrass and sometimes arrest improperly dressed women.

  587. Okay this is too funny


  588. UAW, I am pro-choice and anti-death penalty – they are not opposing points of view or cause for cognitive dissonance. HOWEVER, since this country strongly supports the death penalty, I also advocate that all executions must take place in front of the state capital with all State Representatives & Officials in mandatory attendance. Furthermore, I advocate that all executions must be carried live on television as part of public service announcements etc. . . In addition, anyone serving on a jury that finds for the death penalty must likewise be in attendance. Executions should be carried out in the same manner in which William Wallace was executed. If you want to exact retribution and use the death penalty as a deterrence, then you better be willing to stand there and let the blood bathe you and your family while you picnic.

  589. look at Iraq and Iran…..
    from this day forward everything was Jimmy Carter’s fault……

  590. Liked your point on pro life/pro war…
    does that mean that your also a hypocrite if your pro/abortion/anti death penalty????(aren’t both just getting rid of a gob of unwanted meat)

  591. About news and what they do to you….


  592. Thank you Poolman and Infomom, great points by both of you.When I read posts on this site I think there is some pretty smart people out here regardless if we agreed or disagreed Margaret and Helen’s site seems to attract writers and readers who are down to earth and real.Everyone makes me think and ponder over topics.A BIG thank you to all

  593. @Pam Mc: I was very sorry to hear that Michael Jackson died (like the song, his candle burned out long before the legend ever will). Yes, he was someone’s son and brother and father and friend and should be mourned as such.

    But why why why carpet-bomb the airwaves with stories? They are truly scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Last night’s TV news in Los Angeles was more of the same and they showed his family’s entire street lined with ghoulish fans and vampire “media” trucks. Let the poor man rest in peace.

  594. Delurker Girl Delta: Yaaaaaaayy!

    I do so get not being Pro-Life and Pro-War. It just amazes me that people turn themselves into weasels trying to justify being both.

  595. Off topic, but the Supreme Court declared Al Franken the winner in the MN Senate race.

  596. MJ’ (and everyone else’s) legacy is up to the people left behind. Did you value the people for themselves or for what they did for you? IMO, Joe Jackson is soul-less Joe. And Katherine Jackson is the epitome of the abused wife. . .an all American portrait of familial abuse all wrapped up in glitz and glam to hide the bruises. As for MJ’s eccentricities, so what? To me they just seemed part and parcel of a child in search of a home. . . a safe haven. . . a self.

  597. MJ was so cute when he was a kid! Such cheeks! Perfect for grandmotherly pinching. But the adult MJ was someone I just couldn’t get to know. Had heard rumors about Joe Jackson but I choose not to dally with rumors. But it is now so obvious that there was more truth to them than not. Honestly, there has to be a special place in hell for people who try to make hay out of the death of a child! I thought Ann Coulter’s remarks at her mother’s funeral were ghastly, but Joe Jackson tops them.

    Getting final custody of the children will not be a piece of cake for grandma. MJ allegedly left instructions in his will as to the disposition of the children. Plus he made no secret of the fact that he considered the nanny the best bet to raise the children far from the nonsense of his own antecedents.

    Darn good post, girls!

  598. I bet Margaret has a Michael Jackson T-shirt.

  599. I’m not a fan of MJ nor am I a detractor. But as an individual who pretty much lacks artistic talent, I appreciate it when I see others who can do what I cannot. MJ’s talent was recognized from a very early age and his financial worth was immediately obvious. That was his downfall because the poor guy never had a childhood. Instead he was latched onto by a loopy assortment of sycophants and enablers, including his parents, who became enriched by his success.

    I can’t imagine what it must be like to realize that even as a child you are saddled with a huge responsibility for an assortment of people who make a living off your talents. And while some of his adult actions seem childish and self-defeating by nature, many may be attributed to the shortcomings of his early rearing.

    And he certainly was talented. His dance moves, even more than his singing, became instant classics and few performers have been able to copy them with any degree of success. He has had a host of mimics but few true imitators.

    Certainly he will be missed by his fans but for many of us he was tortured soul and in a perverted sense recognize that he is probably better off now. But it will be interesting to see what happens to all those who sponged off his existence. On second thought, perhaps not.

  600. I love the Housewives comment! I completely agree, however my hypocrisy will show when I saw I can’t get enough of those shows.

    I haven’t been following the MJ coverage because, frankly, I want to remember him for his music and could care less about the scandal that became his life. He contributed a great deal to the music industry and I firmly believe he helped turn MTV into the channel it USED to be…you know, when they actually played music videos. Joe Jackson makes me sick and I refuse to follow this so-called news about him. Whoever said “If you view your child strictly for his revenue potential when he’s living, it stands to reason that won’t change if he dies.” is right on.

  601. Pam Mc,

    Bravo! You also notice how many are mean-spirited. The world is full of them, just as they are full of themselves. I am not a psychiatrist or qualified to make mental health judgements, but common sense tells me it is because of a lack of peace and contentment in their own lives that they need to belittle or curse others.

  602. I adore your posts and have never written before but here goes…For those mean spirited people who here and out on the internet YOU should all be ashamed of yourselves but are probably not smart enough to be! Regardless of your feelings,beliefs etc on Michael Jackson he is some one’s son, some one’s brother, some one’s Dad and if you believe in God or some one else he is their child too.How dare anyone re-joice in some one’s death no matter how their time on earth turned out.I am a nurse and I can tell you first hand that when we are born or when we die it is a VERY big deal.

  603. I’m not one to get emotionally attached to entertainers as so many seem to…..I never felt a particular fondness for MJ, although I do appreciate a few of his songs. I do believe he was a master entertainer; however, that does not make him a hero. People seem to blur the lines way to often.

    I believe he was an eccentric/tortured adult because he was trying to chase — recreate, even — the happy childhood he never had.

    I side with Debra T. that Helen should get custody of Jackson’s little ones…..can’t think of a better solution than that!

    As always, Helen, LOVE your post! Every sentence you write is brilliant, witty, and sharp! Still waiting for the book!

  604. “May the best radicals win.” LOL

  605. Once again, spot on, ladies! Can someone PLEASE stop giving air time to that egotistical child-beater Joe Jackson? Feel so bad for the children…

  606. I think Helen should get custody of MJ’s children. :-)

  607. I can’t believe it either. The widget makers are now in charge of the grandwidgets. I am a huge fan of MJ and his talent, a disser of his upbringing — daddy in particular–and a dubious critic of his last ten years of controversy. Because I loved him so much, I therefore tolerated his eccentricities and always hoped he would prove his detractors wrong and make the comeback I selfishly wanted to see from my childhood idol. Those kids need some kind of normalcy, but I doubt they will get it. Another reason his passing is so sad.

  608. I hope Michael Jackson’s children end up with whomever loves them best.

    Sanford is pathetic. Maybe his wife should take over his job. She, I respect.

    Ha ha ha! Can’t stand a few of those “houswives”.

  609. I’m gonna print out those rules!
    Love from Spain!

  610. infmom

    Erich Maria Remarque in “All quiet obn the western front” already discribed the vision of war being thought by politicians as a baseball game without ball ina stadion without a ball…….

    Best way ever, and if we will elect them rather for brawn than brain, aside of Obama, will we really notice any difference?

  611. Debbie
    never liked MJ very much and don’t see why I should pretend to do so now….

    And with his constant “whitening” he offers himself as the butt of jokes….. not really fair, but so is life…..

    And for the pedophilia I am content with a reasonable doubt that he had/did…..

    But that is not to diminish what you or any other fan thinks, it is just what I think.

    So, if you don’t agree, ignore it, I will NOT constantly repeat it, just all this sugarsweet “he couldn’t do anything wrong” crap grates on my nerv.

    And I do agree that for his strange behaviour mostly Joe, the ass-hat, Jackson is to blame…..

  612. I’d add: From this day forward, if some country’s leader thinks starting a war is a good idea, he and the other country’s leader get locked in a room naked and they duke it out till one of them gives up.

  613. I wonder how long until Joe brings forward the newest singing sensation “Jackson’s Three”? It would sure be a shame.

  614. How do you two continue to write the most brilliant prose on the planet? I’m so jealous!!! And inspired, and that’s the important part.

    Not sure where MJ was going with his life, but I do believe he had a big heart, immeasurable talent, and a drive for perfection that only few understand (me not being one of them). Whatever his situation, he positively effected the lives of many. He was a consummate artist and humanitarian and deserves to be remembered for his stellar performances and contributions to charity.

    And Werner, MJ didn’t drink bleach (um, you’d die, btw) rather he had an illness called vitiligo – look it up. And allegations of pedophilia were never proven. He had people all over the place doing their darnedest to get their hands on his millions.

  615. Well said! I agree with every word of it!

  616. Here, here! Love the list and I agree with every. single. one of them. That “pro-life / pro-war” thing? You took the words right outta my mouth.

  617. Brilliant, Helen!

  618. Stan
    I love you too, not!

  619. Helen, as usual another spot on post and I love this line of yours!

    “Watching all this mad-dash coverage, it occurs to me that if you tore him down in life then it’s a tad bit hypocritical for you to now prop him up in death”

  620. Can we at least film the Christian Right’s trip to Iran? Now THAT would be great television!

  621. Never stopped you before, Werner…

  622. Helen

    great post

    about MJ, well that’s what you get for drinking too much bleach, being focused only on money (actually beaten to it by your father, the ass-hat), but still with all his talent, I really disliked the pedophile thingy (And don’t tell me he spend millions to silence people without a cause!)

    I fully agree with your “Radicals to the Iraq”, but please without any modern weapons, bats and swords only, they wanna see blood, let ‘em have it!

    Greytdog and Poolman, I posted an idea for you on the last blog, didn’t wanted to crowd this one…..

  623. margaret & helen – thanks for a spot on post. MJ as widget – a thing, a nonentity, designed only to produce profit. . .gawd, that’s really really sad.

  624. You are FUNNY!!!!!!!!!

  625. My favorite line in this whole piece: “From this day forward everything was Reagan’s fault.” As a Californian, I can say that our once grand and golden State started its rapid socio-economic nosedive during his Governorship. People seem to have forgotten that tidbit.

  626. Oh, Helen. I love your phrasing. And “May the best radicals win.” hahahahahahahahaha!

  627. Michael Jackson isn’t dead. It was all faked just like Elvis.

  628. How can one world have you folks and Sally Kern both living in it?

  629. Another great post! I found myself thinking these same thoughts while watching all the coverage.

  630. I wonder if the courts took a hard look at Joe Jackson before they awarded custody of those three children. Or did they only look at his loving mother. I think the latter. It is so very sad.

    I had a mad crush on MJ when I was a child. Now, I can only feel sadness for the person who was so lost as an adult. My condolences to those who were close to him.

    Helen, your points on hypocrisy are awesome. Thanks for making my day.

  631. Ladies, as always, you speak the truth in a logical and no-nonsense manner. I love you, Margaret and Helen. Can I adopt you to be my grandmothers (because mine kind of sucks, to tell you the truth.) xoxoxo

  632. In the day
    He was way
    Better than we knew
    In the night
    He was right
    And oh so blue
    When he stood
    Beneath a hood
    No one came
    And now I die
    At the lie
    We are all to blame

  633. Great Post Helen! How you do keep your finger on the pulse of the nation is amazing. And at your age! My Nana gets her hair done every Thursday and plays Bingo on Friday…that’s it.

  634. Who is this Michael Jackson? Is he with the Sports?

  635. tito is my baby daddy

  636. The Christian Right is neither.

  637. I miss him so much. I haven’t been able to get out of bed since Saturday. I can’t imagine ever getting out of bed again. He was everythign to me. Why didn’t Joe JAckson die instead. That would have given Michael peace.

  638. I feel sorry for Tito…he fine!
    He could be my baby daddy any day!!

  639. Love it. Widget. Haven’t heard that in a while but it is the perfect description of how Joe Jackson sees his children. Hey I know. Let’s give the kids to the man who beat their father. WTF

  640. Terry…..I think you meant Janet.

  641. I agree. Hypocracy in the country is out of control. It all started with Reagan and the Repubs have never realized their mistake. THanks for posting this.

  642. Michael Jackson was a freak. Who cares if he is dead. The only ones who probably care are his kids and Latoya. Now Latoya can finally prove she is the real deal!!!

  643. Just Beat It you bitches.

  644. Great post, Helen! Yes MJ was a tortured soul and his talent was huge. May God rest his soul. May all the vultures choke on their spoils.

  645. Love this post!

  646. Absolutely great post!

  647. If you view your child strictly for his revenue potential when he’s living, it stands to reason that won’t change if he dies.

  648. Dead on as usual. Yes, that Joe Jackson should be ashamed but his large ego will never allow that. I saw his interview where he was promoting himself and his new label. I about lost my dinner. I have always had a place in my heart for Michael. He and his siblings were abused. He was scared to death of his father as were his brothers. Don’t know about the sisters.

    I hope that Michael is finally at peace. Goodness knows he never had any peace while on Earth.

  649. Another good post. I think you hit the nail on the head with that one and, yes, I was just thinking this morning that Joe Jackson is a piece of work. Actually, I was thinking something much worse, but I’ll keep it clean here out of respect for you ladies.

  650. I certainly love your rules about hypocrisy. I do not put Michale Jackson on the same level as Elvis. Elvis performed up until the point he died, and yes, he was addicted to meds, but he wasn’t a freak. I get a lot of flack from the young ones, but they will get over that too! Keep up the excellent posts.

  651. Michael Jackson was so talented. All the other stuff in his life is now between him and God.

  652. Fabulous!!!!

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