Believe it or not folks but one of our readers has asked us to please write about the importance of breastfeeding. At first I laughed because why would someone ask a couple of old bags about that? And Margaret only has dogs and a bird so I don’t know if she even has an opion about this. Unless of course one of the dogs breast fed that damn bird. But this person has now sent several emails including information about the La Leche League. For those of you who don’t know La Leche is a group that promotes breastfeeding. Pardon the pun but I have a mouthful to say on that…
From Helen
If I had a dime for every exposed breast I have seen recently, I’d have about a buck-fifty. And I don’t hang out at those nude beaches that have become so popular. What I am talking about here is public breast feeding. One of the women in my quilting group has three daughters. I can’t remember a time in recent memory when one of them wasn’t pregnant. The last time we were at her house, her youngest daughter was there with her three boys. So in the middle of quilting I look over and she’s sitting there fully exposed feeding the baby. In my day, you left the room and came back about 20 minutes later -often times wearing your blouse inside out by mistake. But times have changed so I just looked away. But then her four year old came into the room and said, “ChiChi Momma. ChiChi“ And I wouldn’t have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes, but the four year old reached up and grabbed his momma’s ”ChiChi” and had himself a little milk with his cookies. Well you could have knocked me over with a feather.
It seems that all three of her daughters are members of that La Leche group. Well, I don’t know how far this group is willing to take it, but if a child is old enough to ask for it, their too old to see it. And if a 4 year old ever grabs for one of my breasts their going to get their hand slapped. Now a 44 year old is another story but don’t tell Harold I said that.
Breastfeeding is fine by me. But putting it out there for everyone to see is like chewing with your mouth open. It’s just not polite. And that’s all I have to say about that.
From Margaret
First of all Helen, what did my bird ever do to you?
Believe it or not dear, I have to agree with you 100% on this one. I know they say breastfeeding is a natural bodily function, but so is a bowel movement. You don’t see people dropping their drawers and doing that in the middle of your living room, now do you?
For goodness sakes Helen. Let me pick the topic next time. That’s it. I’m done.
Now keep safe this coming holiday. Thanks for stopping by again. I mean it. Really.
Just thought I’d share this about foumlra I don’t have children, but I do raise dairy goats. This involves removing the babies and bottlefeeding, for a variety of reasons health and behavioral. I’ve tried replacer (the livestock version of foumlra) and if I feed more than 50% replacer at a time the kids ALWAYS get sick, with nasty runny bottoms, etc. Even pasteurized/homogenized cow’s milk works better, although I avoid even that. First choice is feeding raw goat’s milk, since they grow better (No illness + adequate nutrition), and well-grown kids win more blue ribbons. Second choice is frozen, year old goats milk if I have a supply and demand problem.So if my goats can’t even thrive on the stuff, why, pray tell, would I feed it to my much more valuable and longer lived human child?
By: Cesar on December 18, 2012
at 5:27 AM
[...] this post – a blog written by two ladies in their 60s. One of them says this about breastfeeding in this post “Breastfeeding is fine by me. But putting it out there for everyone to see is [...]
By: Breastfeeding « as a pilgrim on February 15, 2009
at 10:54 AM
Breast-feeding grown children.
What a choice of behavior serves, provides the evidence for why it is taking place.
I believe that it is self-evident that breast feeding children is a form of sexual molestation.
The evidence that continuing to breast feed a baby after it begins to function as an independent human being, is sexual molestation, is that there is no other bodily function of a baby that is continued in these cases except breast-feeding.
This is the evidence that the mother is continuing the breast-feeding to serve her own sexual pleasure.
There are two functions within the design of breasts of women… One is the sexual function and the other biological function is to feed a baby who can’t feed itself.
The vagina also has two design functions… one function is sexual, and another function of it, is it provides the ability to create a baby and bring it out into the world.
None of these mother’s being reported about continued to keep their children in diapers for eight or eleven years.
They didn’t continue to dress their children and undress them. They didn’t continue to wash their children’s bodies as the child grew in the same manner they did when the children were babies. They allowed their children to act out childhood within every other childhood ability, except the stopping of the breast-feeding.
It is the mother that refused to stop the breast-feeding, in spite of the baby learning to feed itself.
This choice of the mother is what provides the evidence that it was the mother that wanted the breast-feeding to continue because it became a form of sexual pleasure (in other words, they chose to allow the baby function of the breast to become a sexual function acted out by the child to the mother… an abnormal reversal of natural function of the breasts).
To the rational mind, how can this refusal of the mother to free the growing child from her breast not be considered a form of sexual molestation.
By: surfed in on January 3, 2009
at 1:45 AM
Helen, sorry but I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, but without any ill feelings. I can completely understand where you are coming from as when I was breastfeeding my kids I really didn’t feel comfortable hanging it out for all to see. However, I have to agree with some of the other comments in that it is not always easy or convenient to only breastfeed in private. I had to come to terms with the fact that there would be times when I had to oblige my children when my dad was still in the room and to tell you the truth I was very grateful he was able to be so respectful about it because picking up a screaming, hungry infant I was still learning how to attach to my breast and carrying them to another room would have been completely beyond me during the early days. I have to ask with all due respect did you breastfeed your babies?
By: Shelley on January 2, 2009
at 7:35 AM
“Past the age of 1, children get no nutritional benefits from breastmilk. It may be comforting and a bonding experince between mother and child, but it’s not physically necessary.”
This is completely untrue and inaccurate.
Breastmilk does not suddenly turn into water at twelve months. It is still milk, still full of nutrients and immune system benefits just like it was at birth, and at 11 months, 364 days. It is no longer the primary source of nutrition, but it is still a beneficial part of a healthy diet for any child above the age of one year.
While breastfeeding may not be physically necessary for the survival of your average 12 month old child, it does have benefits. If your child becomes ill, and is unable to keep anything down but breastmilk, you may be very glad if you can still nurse them, as my friend was when her child was hospitalized for severe vomiting.
As I also pointed out, children with an allergy to cow’s milk benefit greatly from continued breastfeeding. As does any child who continues to receive it, at any age.
If someone does not wish to breastfeed past a certain age, that is their choice, but to state there are no benefits is factually inaccurate and untrue. It does a disservice to those who do choose to continue, by leading others to believe there is no valid reason for their choice, and increasing pressure to conform to the preferences of others regardless of their own decision for their family.
By: Kathryn on December 7, 2008
at 3:13 PM
When I was…10(?) I was at my friend’s house, and her mother was holding her infant son. I wanted to come over and take a peek at him, and when I got over there and bent over to look at him, WHOA! Giant boob! He was breast feeding, but I didn’t know that. I just thought his mom was holding him. I didn’t know how to react-was it ok to keep looking, should I be embarrassed, would she be embarrassed if I was embarrassed? I think this is the issue that a lot of people have with breast feeding in public-we’re not sure what reactions we are supposed to have. Is it ok to admire a baby that is being breast fed? Should we engage in conversation while politely averting our gaze? Should we just walk over to the other side of the room until the “all’s clear” is given? Are the rules different for male and female interactions, a woman who’s covered up vs. one who isn’t, etc.?
Several people have mentioned that people who are uneasy with breast feeding in public are the ones with the issues, and I agree, but understanding the issues might help clear some of them up. Just my two cents.
By: Dreamybee on December 7, 2008
at 2:22 AM
I can only remember ever seeing three women breastfeed in public. One was in the children’s section of Borders, using a blanket. One was at my son’s daycare. One was sitting next to me on an airplane. I looked away to give them their privacy but never questioned whether they had the right to do so.
I was not able to breastfeed my son. He came home from the hospital with jaundice and I had to get fluid into him every two hours and my milk hadn’t come in yet. I was very disappointed that I couldn’t breast feed and the only person who ever gave me a hard time about it was the nurse from the hospital who called up to check on me. My son is thin, healthy and smart. Bottle-feeding didn’t hurt him at all and I don’t think it’s fair make women feel bad about not breast feeding. I am 7 months pregnant with my second child and hope to breast feed this time, but I have to go back to work after 12 weeks and probably won’t be able to do so for very long. If society has a gripe with women not breast feeding, then demand employers pay for mothers to be off work longer. We recently had an intern from Germany at our office. When she asked how long I was going to be off and I said “12 weeks” her eyes got big and she said, “That’s all?” In Germany, as in many other European countries, you get 6 months paid leave. Of course, they also have universal health care and a society that is is much less individualistic, but that’s a different debate.
I think we all need to understand that while breastfeeding isn’t “bad” or “shameful,” breasts are sexual objects. In ancient cultures they were a symbol of fertility. The bigger your breasts, the more fertile you were believed to be, the more children you were believed to be able to produce. Attraction to breasts is part of our programming. We cannot unsexualize breasts. There is a reason women’s bathing suits cover them. They are “private.” Seeing them in public, even with a baby latched on, makes people uncomfortable because they are sexual objects. It is perfectly acceptable to breastfeed in public, but it’s not okay for your breast and nipple to be exposed for all to see. Some discretion is necessary, but that is not the same as telling women that modesty equals shame.
My son is about to turn 4, and the idea of him breastfeeding at his age is, frankly, creepy. Past the age of 1, children get no nutritional benefits from breastmilk. It may be comforting and a bonding experince between mother and child, but it’s not physically necessary. I believe that’s where the ickiness factor comes from.
By: Anne on December 5, 2008
at 5:50 PM
I was a bottle baby, and to my certain knowledge, it didn’t do me any harm. I’m healthy, hale and hearty at 60 and plan to live to be at least as old as Margaret and Helen.
I know I’m very late on this one, but when I was about six years old, I went to see Snow Whilte with my mother, a school friend and my friend’s mother and three year old brother. Everyone was fascinated watching the dwarfs chase Snow White’s evil stepmother up the cliff, when suddenly this three year old kid pipes up, “Give me a tit, mom.” Good thing it was a dark theatre so we could all hide!
By: K2inSR on December 5, 2008
at 3:55 PM
“When my daughter was a newborn, she nursed about every hour for half an hour at a time. If I didn’t nurse in public, I’d have never gone out. Even now, at five months, she nurses about every 2 hours–not even long enough for a decent grocery shop.
I nurse in public all the time. Most of the time, she’s in a sling or other carrier, latched on, and I’m moving through the mall, the grocery store, the local Indian restaurant, the farmer’s market, or just taking a stroll around the block. Lots of people see the back of her head and a little cleavage, if that. I can’t see how that could be offensive to anyone–or comparable to shit.
As for the idea of putting a blanket over her head while she eats, forget it. If you don’t like it, look away. I’m not about to juggle a blanket, and no one is forcing you to look at (horrors!) the back of my baby’s head.”
———–
I bet if your child was four years old, there would be plenty of comments made and, if you would insist on your rights to reveal and disgorge any time you wanted, then you should be prepared for the opinions of people that don’t appreciate seeing a toddler sucking on his mother’s breast while he’s playing a Nintendo game at the mall.
By: Political Amazon on December 4, 2008
at 10:13 PM
Oh, good lord. It’s back to the breastfeeding issue again. That’ll be good for another 400 posts at least.
I’m with Helen on this (and watch what kind of missles you launch because I return fire with an exponent).
I think her comment in the Holiday Letter to her family indicated that she would just as soon not see someone breast-feed their four-year old.
This does not seem like an unreasonable stance to me.
For those who feel they need to breast-feed their four-year old where ever and whenever the child demands (and, really, shouldn’t a four-year-old have learned a modicum of impulse control by that point, so that you could go to a quiet room to feed the child?), don’t go to Helen’s house at Thanksgiving. She’s already indicated that it’s not acceptable.
But I think what the issue is here, really, is what others have discussed–the militancy of some breastfeeders.
Sufferin’ Jesus, when I used to moderate the old ACLU boards on AOL, I got assigned the breastfeeders. Understand, on AOL message boards are heavily censored and the ACLU offered a true free-speech zone. So we got a lot of “refugee communities” who had been so censored on AOL that they fled to the safe haven of the ACLU free-speech zone.
I also got assigned the religious zealots and the BDSM crowd. I learned A LOT from both communities, and I was way more horrified by what I learned from the religious zealots.
Anyway, the brestfeeder community was the most acrimonious, passion-filled, name-calling, accusation-oriented group I ever experienced as a moderator.
The militants were the source of most of that. It was the lack of common sense and respect for what is judged as reasonable in whatever environment you are in that, IMO, made the militants militants.
It’s also the lack of respecting others’ rights to express themselves.
If breastfeeders are going to demand the right to drop and exude any danged time they and their child wants, then they have to understand that others are going to demand the right to object to it if it is, for that an environment, what most people would consider out of the bounds of what most people feel comfortable with.
It’s kind of like the interview with Obama, early on in the primary, when an interviewer was trying to trick Obama (who is, you know, half African) into an uncomfortable answer by asking “Do you believe that laws specifying that the saggy-pants/ showing under-drawers that “some” (i.e., at that time, a large portion were African-American late-teens) boys wear should be outlawed?”
Obama said (loose quote, but it is the gist of what he said), “In general, I am against laws that dictate dress code. On the other hands, the brothers should pull up their pants.”
So, let the flames begin. I’m with Helen on this, so give it your best shot.
Disclaimer: I nursed my daughter until she was 8 months old when I contracted a viral infection that produced a raging fever for days. Despite all of my attempts, there was no milke by the time I left the hospital. Yes, we pumped and pumped, but eventually there was nothing to pump.
By: Political Amazon on December 4, 2008
at 10:10 PM
Breastfeeding in public is not dirty, gross, or indecent. I have seen many women breastfeed in public. Never on ANY occasion have I seen more “skin” than you see on some teenagers walking through the mall. Or what about the Victoria’s Secret posters? I don’t see anyone rushing to throw blankets over those. It’s a double standard, and it does a disservice to women and babies everywhere. I don’t doubt some woman somewhere may have shown more skin than you were comfortable with. Look away, cut her some slack, realize that she may be doing the best she can where she is right now, and her baby’s need to eat trumps everything else. Everything. That baby’s human right to have food comes first.
As to the age of the child, that is irrelevant. You do not know what cultural, health, or other issues their family may be dealing with. In many cultures breastfeeding is continued well past the six weeks or less that seems to be average here. We seem to hear a lot about “cultural sensitivity” these days… until something cultural that gets under our skin comes up and then it’s “Oh no! That’s just… (wrong, messed up, crazy… pick one)”
Having two children who were severely allergic to cow’s milk, the ridiculousness of thinking there is a magical age when cow’s milk becomes better for a child is even more obvious to me. My fourth child was nearly three when he weaned. He wasn’t nursing in public at that age, and he went several weeks where he didn’t nurse every day even. Was it “gross” or sexual that my *human* offspring still drank *human milk* at any point? Of course not! How silly. Is he scarred for life? I hardly think so, he’s a bright outgoing engaging boy who loves to make people laugh.
When toddlers are learning to talk (and ‘ask for it’) they are often entering the stage where they are very picky eaters, and getting balanced nutrition into them can be difficult. Continuing to nurse is one way of making sure at least SOMETHING they consume is packed with nutrition, even if everything else you try to feed them ends up on the floor and mashed into their hair. Maybe you haven’t seen the commercials for toddler formula and “pediasure” but I for one can’t afford that, not when breastfeeding is still free.
Supporting women should mean we support their choices. While I don’t *mentally comprehend* the choice not to breastfeed (notice I said “choice” I TOTALLY get having that decision taken away from you by health concerns, etc.) I support it as that woman’s personal decision. Just as I would hope someone who is in favor of women’s rights and freedoms could support other women in their decision to breastfeed as long as their child continues, and in any place their baby needs to be fed.
By: Kathryn on December 3, 2008
at 2:26 PM
THANK YOU for saying it Margaret and Helen. I am a 42 year old female who is repulsed by this practice. If it was a matter of seeing it, it would be icky. But how about the slurping noises and yummy sounds??? Are mothers deaf? Seriously, my husband bolted from the table when his clueless cousin sat down next to him while breastfeeding. I of course was lauging my ass off across the room. It was comical & she sat there with is weird look of “what’s the problem.” We have social etiquette so we have a basic standard of behavior. This whole “if you don’t like it then look away” opens up the whole question of, why wait in line, why say please, why not lick your fingers at the table. Does Emily Post really need a chapter on “keep your boob to yourself.” Being discreet shouldn’t be put on the endangered manners list.
By: Juls on December 3, 2008
at 10:01 AM
When my daughter was a newborn, she nursed about every hour for half an hour at a time. If I didn’t nurse in public, I’d have never gone out. Even now, at five months, she nurses about every 2 hours–not even long enough for a decent grocery shop.
I nurse in public all the time. Most of the time, she’s in a sling or other carrier, latched on, and I’m moving through the mall, the grocery store, the local Indian restaurant, the farmer’s market, or just taking a stroll around the block. Lots of people see the back of her head and a little cleavage, if that. I can’t see how that could be offensive to anyone–or comparable to shit.
As for the idea of putting a blanket over her head while she eats, forget it. If you don’t like it, look away. I’m not about to juggle a blanket, and no one is forcing you to look at (horrors!) the back of my baby’s head.
By: itg on December 2, 2008
at 9:08 PM
P.S. “Jen” above me, you just sound jealous. The worst anti-public breastfeeding people are moms who are bitter because they couldn’t breastfeed. tisk, tisk,tisk!
By: kimmie827 on November 30, 2008
at 7:39 PM
I’ve been reading your blog and I really love all of your point of views on politics and such, then I read this. I’m not in any pro-breastfeeding groups, I don’t think a 4 year old should breast-fed, and I only breast-fed my son for a few weeks, but you are wrong. Compairing bowel movements to breastfeeding is ignorant. Its a breast, get over it. If you don’t like it, YOU leave the room.
By: kimmie827 on November 30, 2008
at 7:35 PM