First things first. Let’s comment on this shopping spree to spruce up the Spruce Goose Governor from Alaska. I don’t have a problem with it. Evidently she couldn’t just be a pitt bull. She had to be a pitt bull in lipstick. And we all know it costs a lot of money to make an aging beauty queen look like a pitt bull in lipstick. And hey, she is just a hockey mom after all. She couldn’t afford those clothes on her own so the McCain campaign had to redistribute a little wealth her way.
What really gets my goat is that I could have put that same wardrobe together at JC Penny for about $300 with enough money left over for a piece of pie and coffee. Are you telling me THAT is the best they could do with $150,000? I know I’ve seen the same three outfits about a dozen times this week alone. And when this is all over, it all goes to charity. Well isn’t that just rich? Don’t give them health insurance, give them designer clothing. Honestly, only a Republican could have come up with that one.
But it really all comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of the poor. When you hear Palin screaming “socialism” or John McCain spouting off about “redistribution of wealth” that’s really code for “those damn poor people”. What they are really saying to those people who live in pro-American parts of the country is that Obama is going to take your hard earned money and give it to some poor person who is sitting at home in anti-America with too many kids just living high on the hog off the government. And most likely that poor person doesn’t look like you (wink wink). I doubt Palin even knows the definition of socialism. After all it has three more letters in it than Muslim. By the way, the average welfare recipient has less than three children. Sarah and Todd Palin? That would be five. John and Cindy McCain? Seven.
I do know this – taxes piss everyone off. Nobody likes to be taxed. Hell, Margaret’s husband Howard still has the first dollar he ever made. Tax day to him ranks right up there with his annual prostate exam. And my Harold is no better. But we all eventually take it in the rear because we fancy roads, schools, healthcare, national security, law enforcement, energy… Those things represent the majority of what our taxes go to. And speaking of majority, the majority of welfare recipients are children. You know, those precious little bundles of life that the Republican base likes to ignore once the cord is cut.
If you have spent any time volunteering for a charity, you quickly learn that the majority of poor people are actually the “working poor”. They work hard everyday but don’t get paid enough to put gas in the car and food on the table. Yep. That’s the group we are so mad about. Damn those poor people. They just ruin it for the rest of us. Because of them Joe the Plumber’s taxes are so high he can’t afford to buy his girlfriend designer outfits as nice as Sarah Palin’s.
Well that’s it for now. Thanks for stopping by. I mean it.
[PS. The grandkids came up with some clever t-shirt designs. Thanks to everyone for suggesting Cafe Press. We now have a store there. Matthew said there would be a way to get there from here.]
[...] two little old ladies, Margaret & Helen, recently introduced to me by a friend, just make my [...]
By: When I am old I shall wear purple…. « The Progressive Mama Blogger on January 23, 2009
at 7:16 PM
Ms. Helen,
I have to gripe here sorry but I just have to. This is the first time I have seen your blog by the way as I am new to WordPress.
I make 12.50 per hour. I struggle. I have three children. The ages are 4, 6 & 12. I do not take government handouts under any circustances. In 2006 I lost my job that I had for 5 years. I have many tribulations in my life time because my two younger children’s father started using drugs and if wasn’t nailed down you were going to loose it. About 2 years prior to loosing my job I managed to get rid of him. Because of his addiction I only received 3/4 of 1 child support payment. Needless to say he was no help at all! The job I had for 5 years paid very well however it was for a nonproft and budget cuts had to be made and I had to go. I stuggled for 18 months to find a job. I have great skills however it was tough. Finally in November of last year I was offered a job and I took it. Personally I do not like my job as it does not lead me to my full potential. However I could no longer live without one.
I think what people do not understand about Republicans or conservative people is this…they want you to get out and make a life for you and your family. You will then be rewarded for your hard work. “Those damn poor people” is not want they mean when they comment on Obama’s redistributon of wealth. I am sure you and your huband worked very hard for your money all these years. Why would you want the government to take it and do what they want with it to include giving it to someone who is perfectly capable of getting off their but and getting a job. I understant that not everyone in this county has the will power to make an effort to better their lives. There are some people who will sit on the hind ends and let the government take care of them.
While I was out of work I spent days upon days sending out resumes. I did what it took until someone gave me a chance. I personally feel that working for a Soccer club all those years people did not take it seriously. After all when people asked where I worked the response was always “what could you possibly have to do there”. Strangely enough alot more than I did at the job I am at now.
When I lost my job I didn’t ask for TANF or a check from the government. I did recieve child support from my exhusband for my oldest daughter. My middle child has a disability and I applied for social security two years ago to help with her medical expenses. The first 6 months I did recieve unemployment. It was a struggle and I came out on the other side it with no regrets. I learned something during that time frame. Nobody in this world, not your parents, friends, or even the government can bring “change” to your life. You have to do it within yourself. Change comes within. You are in control of your destiny.
I had a friend who recently bought a house have living in the housing projects in my city. She worked hard and did what she needed to do get out. It was a temporary thing for her. Many people in this city that I live in believe they are entitled to be taken care of by the government. Where we live yes there are extreme measures of poor people. However what really just boils my blood is when they live in the projects and have no intentions of getting out at all!! They are content being poor and living off the government. Poor people whether they are white, black, hispanic or asian all have the same chances in this county. Need an education and want to go to college – apply for a Pell grant. Knowlege is power!!
You see Ms. Helen I over came adversity…so can those poor people. And as far as Sarah Palin’s wardrow. The GOP purchased it and it will go to charity. That wardrome was worth $150,000. In an auction it will more than likely go for more than double or triple that. That is alot of money that could be used to help poor get off of welfare and back to work.
Obama’s “redistribution of wealth” and yes that is what he called it himself, is merely welfare. It is free money from the government. That is exactly what people are getting when they go and apply for welfar in this county. They are not working for it at all. They can sit around all day long and get a check. Becuase I only make 12.50 an hour and have three children I do not pay taxes. If I didn’t have my children I would have to pay taxes. Currently I get over $5000.00 back for taxes. Under Obama’s tax plan I would get another $2,038.00 a year. THAT IS OVER $7000.00! Sure it sounds great but lets look at where it comes from. Currently I would for a small business owner. We are an HVAC/DDC Control company. Last week the owner had to lay off 3 people. He is freaking out about Obama’s tax plan which will raise his taxes. He is not going to cut his pocket short so he will let people go to make up the difference. I do not blame him either. He is in the business to make money and have a great life for him and his family. What if I am one of those people that gets laid off? All for what an extra $2038.00 a month. I would rather have my 12.50 an hour and keep looking for a better paying job than not have a job and struggle for another 18 months or longer becuase the unemployment rate is so high!!
Thank you for letting me vent Ms. Helen. I know we see things differently however sometimes I think progress is never made unless people argue their reasonings…. By the way I also admire your friendship of 60 years. That is wonderful. I hope that my girlfriends and I have the same time under our belt….
By: polticalgirl on November 8, 2008
at 8:38 AM
Rich people decided a long time ago that for them to have an ass load of kids is a blessing unto this world. For poor people to do the same (eve if they have the exact same reasoning, religious beliefs, etc) is considered irresponsible. (If you ask me, I don’t think any people should have more than 2, 3 kids tops.) The difference is that the rich kids are just valued more, and it’s assumed that they’ll be better cared for, more loved and have a brighter future. What a crock!
And I agree that the reason people hate socialism is because it means that there money will help poor people. And they can’t stand it!
Great post. You’re amazing!
By: Danyell on October 31, 2008
at 9:26 AM
OMG this is my first day reading your work, IT’S AWESOME!! please keep on writing your thoughts. it’s also nice to see someone over the age of 60 who is not a republican, thanks and i love your blog!!
By: ashley on October 30, 2008
at 2:58 PM
Helen,
I just sent a link to your site to all of my family members. My mother is no longer living but I swear you are channeling her!!!
By: Rich on October 30, 2008
at 2:09 PM
Ladies, you’re rockin’ and rollin’. Keep up the good fight.
By: Sumo on October 29, 2008
at 11:16 PM
A lot of talk here today about Mr Obama’s supposed plan to “redistribute” wealth…
this is another another red herring thrown up to scare the socks off folks…
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/sunstein-ridiculousness-about.html
Much has been made here of Helen’s straight talk. We are starved for straight talk! Especially after the last 8 years.
Some folks are ticked off at her use of (mild ) swear words.
Me- I’m ticked off at the hi-jacking of common decent words . By tone of voice, winking, and sundry other rhetorical devices, we have changed the meaning of words, or demonized them…Providing for our common welfare, providing for the things we do together – building schools and hiring folks to teach our kids, making roads to get us and our goods to market ( and get ourselves home from market with all our crap ) , is NOT socialism, nor is it the kind of redistribution the current Republican campaign is trying to convince us it is!
Demonizing the poor and working poor as LAZY might make a cold heart warm with hitting on a rationale to refuse to lend a hand up but it doesn’t address the cost to all of us- on a hundred other fronts -that we pay by avoiding POVERTY.
Twisting the word grand word “responsibility ” into “you’re on your own sucker !” or “I’ve got mine, you go get your own !” seems to be on the agenda lately too…
Some of Mr Obama’s stated policies and goals are less than, or more than, I would prefer if I had the power of line-item veto but it is the overarching IDEA that we WILL try to address America- us- in a straight forward way that most appeals to me.
I am ready to redefine words we have ill-used or dragged through the mud, ball em up into ideas and kick those ideas around in the sunlight, out in the open. We haven’t been able to do that for too long.
We CANNOT evaluate the effects of policies on our institutions – home, communities, states, nation, if we talk in code.
We CANNOT adjust our institutions to meet our expectations if we cannot even articulate our expectations.We must also have the elbow room to safely work them out- in the open- without some dingbat trying to push us all back into warring camps.
Our Constitution can be seen as a narrow document or one that has room for us to grow and adapt over time. Both arguments have validity though I tend toward viewing it as the latter. The wiggle room afforded by the latter has helped us to survive some terrible times and move on. The self correcting function of the first view has kept us from straying too far afield on occasion…
Whatever the hell has been gathering steam and flattening us all in the last 8 years is not a self-correction nor a flexing of necessary wiggle room…IT is an aberration, a disease, a pox that is taking us all down with it. IT is not an alien thing however…
IT is the all too human ability to ignore what we know because it gets in the way of something we want…
By: Alaska Pi on October 29, 2008
at 10:19 PM
Please put this quote on one of your t-shirts:
It must be hard to be both pro-war and pro-life at the same time and still look so perky that early in the morning.
I will buy two. At least.
By: Diane on October 29, 2008
at 8:35 PM
Well, since you obviously prefer to live in a country where you get all you earn and nothing else I suggest you move to one.
Its name is Haiti.
Societies where everyone gets theirs and everyone else can go to Hell are societies where there’s quite a bit of hell.
No thanks.
If you had more than your addiction to Libertarian cant you would have known all that by now, btw.
By: oddjob on October 29, 2008
at 7:38 PM
Well, since you obviously prefer to live in a country where you get all you earn and nothing else I suggest you move to one.
Its name is Haiti.
Societies where everyone gets theirs and everyone else can go to Hell are societies where there’s quite a bit of hell.
No thanks.
If you had more than your addiction to Libertarian cant you would have known all that by now, btw.
By: oddjob on October 29, 2008
at 7:36 PM
Katie excellent insights! I can’t help but gag on “redistribution of wealth” that is just anti cpitalism.
Alaskan beg to differ. Obama is proposing giving back my money after I have worked and sweated my entire life for it. The only thing more personal would be if he came after my family.
“He is well off and is not willing to give that all away to make everyone “equal”. He just says that he has been blessed enough, he does not mind giving back something extra because he has it to give.”
Hey I am all for him giving back everything he wishes to anyone he wishes. I want the same opportunity, I worked for it. It’s kinda like the little red hen fable if you know it.
The line for who is gonna be taxes at the higher rate has already dropped in dialog from $300K to $250K to $200K to (Biden’s #) $150K.
By: ptfan1 on October 29, 2008
at 5:27 PM
“The founding Fathers did not want nor foresee government providing cradle to grave intervention in redistribution of wealth or most other services either.”- ptfan1
Just an aside the Constitution vs socialism…..
Per the Preamble “Promote the General Welfare” you have to admit it is just a wee bit of built-in socialism. I’m not saying the founding fathers were dreaming of sugar plum fairies distributing free nation wide healthcare but we do have a unique system that combines the extremes of free market capitalism with the desire to provide goods for its people such as free public education referenced somewhere above. This is why America rocks and suffers from cognitive dissonance all at the same time. We constantly fight between our values to “make it” and help others.
You’re right; the founding fathers couldn’t have foreseen any thing like health insurance, tax caps, tax breaks, personal welfare, and corporate welfare. That’s why they kept things deliberately vague, added the 9th and 10th amendment, and Article V. Our founding fathers wanted very simple things for our nation:
To form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and ensure the blessings of liberty for us an our future generations.
Then they made it possible for us to change the constitution to account for changing times when these values might change with the times.
A living document, meant to reflect a living populace. We are not the same people as our ancestors; we do not have their needs or issues, nor did they have ours. But they did have the foresight to give us a constitution that could change with the times. Pretty cool of them, eh?
By: Katie on October 29, 2008
at 4:08 PM
And last afterthought, I do know, (and had a lot of fights with the left winged german establishment for saying it aloud) that East Germany was, with their controls, opressions and Stasi, nothing else than a “red-painted” facism! But, like many other countries, with less greed it would have been such an opportunity!
Werner
By: Werner Oderwer on October 29, 2008
at 3:44 PM
BTW I just wanted to say to all those Anit-Socialists out ther: I think Socialism (NOT Communism, there is a difference!) is one of the best ideas that ever happend to mankind, pitty is that no one was able to make it work, yet!
And I always have to think of a BIG poster that went up on an advertising board in East Germany’s Berlin after the wall fell, it showed a big picture of Karl Marx with the comment: “Sorry boys, it just seamed like such a good idea….!”
Werner
By: Werner Oderwer on October 29, 2008
at 3:38 PM
Hi Helen, I think you do excellent work here to educate people, but I think Washington Post and NYT should “steal” your articles and use the money they save by not paying you to finance the lawsuits they might have to fight for the contens, or even better, pay you and imporove your retirement funds and just throw the extra profit from tripled sales at the lawyers……. Anyway, all I wanted to say: Compliments again!
I would like to lift my imaginary hat to you again and again… Greetings from Montreal, Canada
Baron Werner
Freiherr von und zu Schaffhausen
By: Werner Oderwer on October 29, 2008
at 3:34 PM
The tapping of Alaska’s resources concerns me greatly. It is one of the world’s last untouched locations.
Also, I have to fear Palin’s assessment of Drill Baby Drill, when she has admitted that she believes that the end of days will happen in her lifetime. Of course if she believes that, she doesn’t care what resources and what geography she ruins. Who cares about leaving resources for your children, when you think the world as we know it is going to end.
Healthcare wasn’t so much of an issue when the country was founded because large scale healthcare did not exist. People died young from things that medicine can now prevent. So that analogy doesn’t really work.
Obama is not a socialist. People really need to be able to define socialism before using scare tactics to threaten people who don’t know. Obama is obviously a capitalist. He is well off and is not willing to give that all away to make everyone “equal”. He just says that he has been blessed enough, he does not mind giving back something extra because he has it to give.
This country may have governmental programs to help its citizens, but it will never become socialist. The thought is totally ludicrous.
By: Alaskan on October 29, 2008
at 2:57 PM
Thanks again for some useful insights into your understanding of the Obama policy platform.
I agree that it is powerful and appeals to many as it is the promise of hope to many who embrace it for a variety of reasons. I am going to expand my thoughts to give a thorough response. And I apologize to all who attempt to read it.
“I have to make the leap and assume that you believe in the words and spirit of the constitution.”
lol in a word yes. I am a conservative constitutionalist it is what makes our Republic unique (imho) and it is to the core of why I oppose Obama. I reference the redistribution of wealth that he clearly has been thinking about since at least 2001. Most recently the tape from the Chicago radio show records Obama talking about what the constitution doesn’t do which is tell the government what its proper role to help people is. And that is the heart of the matter. The founding Fathers did not want nor foresee government providing cradle to grave intervention in redistribution of wealth or most other services either. Obama seems to be saying that the government should be making sure everyone has everything. That sounds like radical socialism to me and many others. There was no universal health care in the first 150years of the Republic and no one thought they were deprived of general welfare; they took care of themselves and their families. Using the example of k-12 as the precedent is a logical argument for establishing healthcare as a right and if it could come as an end-all addition of government support I could be persuaded but it clearly does not.
Your link of doctors that support Obama is an interesting one. While there are some impressive titles among the board members the rank and file are largely undefined as to their practice ie we don’t know if they have a real practice yet or if they are students and new emerging Doctors. Let’s look at the AMA’s agenda too.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/18051.html
“America’s patients will be best served when our country eliminates the disproportionate influence of insurers and government into medical decision-making. These important decisions must be placed in the hands of the patient and the physician.”
Now I would interpret that as less regulation and more doctors to patient care.
Natural gas?
I couldn’t open your link. I know there are environmental issues in many areas that are not mining it. (like the Rockies). As for uncapping I am not an oil apologist I agree with that. I say we uncap and bring on Alaska’s vast resources and become less import energy dependent as we can as quickly as we can. I left out Nuclear Energy which is also a key differentiator between McCain who favors it strongly and Obama who thinks there are “waste” issues and suggests we study it further. McCain is for R&D and alternative energy. We all know it should have begun 50 years ago and leaders just haven’t been held accountable. If we had the budget it would be great to do it all at once. But we can not shut down our economy to do only R&D.
Iraq
“WE made the decision to go in there”
Yup WE did, most of our leaders drank that kool aid; after the fact it is easy to abandon the CIC for political reasons. (Obama says he opposed the war, of course he wasn’t called upon in front of his country to participate in that vote cause he was not in congress at the time… talk is cheap) If you recall Colin Powell was a central participant in the presentation to the UN. We believed the info we were fed. If there was criminal activity involved the perpetrators should be tried by the courts not by the MSM (for political gain)
I want to be clear. I hate war. I am angry that the state of the world is what it is. I am for disarmament. The realities of our world are what they are. Even though we have historically declared war on many countries first (for some really trumped up reasons) we still have to deal with reality. Early exit from Iraq now is an invitation to dismal failure that can escalate global terrorism. I go with the guys on the ground and David Petreaus.
Of all the areas of separation between McCain and Obama this is the one that first placed me in McCain’s camp. There is still a clear and present danger in the world and it is our responsibility (by default) to lead in that area. I believe McCain and his family’s legacy are strong deterrents to aggression. So does Biden. I think Obama is not.
You have made a strong point in your selection of “promote the general welfare.”
It gave me great pause and subsequent reading further supports your point.
http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/welfare.htm
Here’s the problem I see. Fixing everything at once is goanna require accountability from those same leaders that look so ridiculous now in their partisan politics. So the first step is maintaining national security (McCain). The next would properly be putting the right people in charge (like you said).
Ready for this? How about really reaching across the aisle like the Mav rick he says he is and asking Obama to help. Lololol (sorry I couldn’t resist a lil election humor)
Ps there’s some really strange remarks on that tape too about Hitler and how our country resembles Hitler’s Germany….I don’t understand what he was attempting to say but it’s quite strange.
By: ptfan1 on October 29, 2008
at 1:40 PM
I’m a little late on this one, but John McCain and Sarah Palin should examine their complaints about redistributing the wealth. We already do that in this country: the working poor support the rich, high sales tax allows the rich to pay less income and property tax, keeping sick people out of insurance plans means more money for the insurance companies and their investors, I could go on and on.
And as far as socialism is concerned, what do you call a $700 billion bailout of the financial markets? Certainly not a free market system. I guess if you have enough money, you’re “too big” to go bankrupt, but if you’re swamped by uninsured medical bills and lose your job, that’s just too bad.
(And someone please explain to me why we should support insurance companies instead of direct access to medical care? Just a thought.)
Keep up the good work, gals.
By: K2inSR on October 28, 2008
at 6:03 PM
Good afternoon everyone!
I’m going to apologize in advance because I know that this will be a lengthy post. I hope you can all bear with me for the duration.
To begin – Anita in FL, I have to echo the post by Alaski Pi and ask why you think we should go away? In my opinion, this thread has begun an intelligent conversation by people supporting both sides. If you’re personally not interested in what’s being said here, you have the choice of reading any of Helen’s other wonderful, insightful posts. Helen’s political house seems to be growing and you have the ability to move from room to room
Thanks again Helen, Margaret, and Matthew for allowing us into your electronic world.
To ptfan1 -
I have to make the leap and assume that you believe in the words and spirit of the constitution. If that is the case, what do you think they meant by saying in the Preamble, “We the people….promote the general welfare…” To me, on the most basic of levels, it means that our nation will support the most basic of human needs, including but not limited to health care and education. A population of unhealthy individuals will lead to a nation of corpses or the walking dead; an uneducated society leads to government tyranny. I honestly don’t believe our Founding Fathers wanted either.
As far as your comment about “Letting more government in is not the answer” – you do realize that our government has expanded more under the Republican administrations than they have under the Democratic ones, don’t you? (I posted the link in another comment & can’t find it right now) So while the Republicans claim that they are in favor of reducing the size of government, their actions demonstrate exactly the opposite.
Are you sure about Obama not getting the support of the doctors? This site tells me otherwise http://doctorsforobama.net/pressrelease.html
I’m not sure where you’re going with the universities “buying into” Obama’s plan. They still have the right to either accept or reject applicants based on stringent criteria. That doesn’t change. What changes is whether or not students that would meet the selection criteria will now be able to meet any financial obligations that go with attending college. The schools will get their money; the students will get their education; the work force will get well-qualified employees – everyone wins.
For oil – why don’t we just uncap the wells that we already have?
http://www.globalresourcecorp.com/Applications_Capped_Stripper_Oil_Wells.asp
Natural gas? Seems like many of the states right smack dab in the middle of the lower 48, there’s an abundance of this natural resource. Therefore, it makes more sense to me to spend billions of dollars to conduct R&D on alternative energies than spend it on building a pipeline to transport natural gas from AK.
http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/resources.asp
Iraq – I read through the entire transcript and have to say it was very enlightening. Sorry, but I can’t draw the same conclusions as the 2 captains. First, we *bought* the loyalty of the Iraqi people (or at least the sheiks – seems to be the same thing). What do you think is going to happen when the American cash cows come home? It really angers me that while my husband & I work hard & struggle to make ends meet, the US government is handing out tens of thousands of dollars at a time to foreign citizens to stimulate their economy – charity begins at home. Second, this “economy” that they’ve been trying to set up is based on the failed trickle-down theory that has led to our own fiscal decline. Do you really believe that these sheiks are so altruistic that they will continue to spread the wealth once the US vacates the country, especially since they haven’t done so for thousands of years? Third, I find it appalling that they presume that the European nations should be footing the bill for this war. WE made the decision to go in there – WE need to accept the consequences. THEY didn’t fall for the deception – THEY shouldn’t be charged for the debacle.
If we keep getting into wars for the wrong reasons, keep getting lied to by the powers-that-be, keep trying the same failed tactics thinking that they’ll yield different results (definition of insanity), how do you expect any support for the next conflict that may arise – either internally with more young people volunteering for military service or externally by the international community? Don’t get me wrong – I applaud the brave men & women that have fought for my freedom to say these things and continue to do so. However, I would also be just as supportive if these young people made the decision to pass up the armed forces if they feel that their commander-in-chief doesn’t have their or the country’s best interest at heart. War is *not* the only answer in a dispute.
For Alaska Pi and A girl – I’ve loved your comments on this and other threads. The insight and intelligence you and several other posters possess is truly encouraging. I’m so happy that Helen & Margaret have provided a place where we could all gather and talk about how we can best get this country out of the deplorable state it’s currently in.
That’s the end of my rant for now. Thanks for reading.
Michele
By: Michele on October 28, 2008
at 2:16 PM
Perhaps Anita has a valid point. My initial inquiry was to test the waters. I have enjoyed the ladies wit for a few weeks now, and do not wish to disrupt others. I will try and post additional thoughts on my blog here at wordpress for any that wish to follow up. Thanks Helen and Margaret
By: ptfan1 on October 28, 2008
at 11:06 AM
“Don’t give them health insurance, give them designer clothing. ” Just priceless. You make many great points!
By: Lorax on October 28, 2008
at 10:50 AM
Anita in Fl-
Why do you think we should go away?
Helen, with her great wit and good sense, and Margaret, in her own quiet way, have taken a chainsaw to the fences we have hidden behind for years and invited us into their parlor.
Are we showing disrespect to Helen and Margaret if we pick up their ideas and turn around to talk to other specific folks in the room?
Thank you again Helen- for inviting us all in.
By: Alaska Pi on October 28, 2008
at 8:42 AM
Why don’t you two start your own blog and leave Margaret and Helen’s alone….just a thought.
By: Anita in FL on October 28, 2008
at 7:57 AM
Ptfan 1-
Well, this attitude about government hasn’t fixed us up… whatever validity it has has been exhausted in over-application in the last 8 years.
Since we made healthcare an “industry” in the free market way of doing things we have watched insurance skyrocket, share of insurance dollars going to everything except actual healthcare baloon, jobs WHICH SUPPORT paying for insurance disappear , doctors get buried under paperwork for insurance companies-private as well as govt– ALL this BEFORE the doc even gets a chance to check our pulse.
Private sector has NOT stepped up to the plate in the way we want or need it to to deal with the issues…and doesn’t look it will or can. So- we are now going to apportion healthcare as a privilege? To those fortunate enough to get the dwindling jobs which can pay premiums and leave enough to feed and house us? We are going to close our eyes and our hearts to those who work their buns off and cannot afford insurance?
There have been too many folks out there , on either extreme, who worry about the slippery slope of too much government-not enough government yelling for so long – we have lost track of the fact most of us out here aren’t on a slippery slope… we are on a steep s-curve… and we are losing traction in the mud!
So- I am at the point , along with a whole lot of other folks, where I think we need to get off the stick and change a whole lot of things.
When the private sector can’t or won’t do it , it is to our public sector we must turn. Misplaced faith in the private sector has as many- or more- pitfalls as misplaced faith in the public sector. Witness the Wall Street meltdown.
In the end- NEITHER will do the job… the pushme-pullyou of attention to BOTH is where our best work is done. Most of us do not like that scary zone… but it really is where we do our best work…
If we lose some docs who are afraid to make changes, I’m sorry.The docs I know just want to treat patients and make a decent living without having to spend so much time and money on NON-care tomfoolery.
We tend to get stuck in thinking out toward logical extremes when change is proposed and flipping out… Realistically, stuff gets pretty diluted while we duke it out…If we keep our eye on the prize, for longer than election day, we can adjust our direction as we go instead of veering off toward extremes un-thinking.
So- I disagree that “letting more government in is not the answer”- I want to let SOME government in and I want to smack the crap outta either side if they overreach.
By: Alaska Pi on October 28, 2008
at 7:54 AM
Alaska Pi
“You don’t sound old enough to remember when healthcare issues were not about insurance but about the care itself… sure would like to see us get back there somehow.”
Letting more government in is not the answer ………it drives doctors away. You decide less when government decides for you (imho)
By: ptfan1 on October 28, 2008
at 5:59 AM
A girl-
Hope you come back… after you take a walk around the block and breathe deep a bit. Ptfan 1 just zinged you with a stealth emotional hit disguised as logical thought. Pretty smarmy – patting you on the head and “reminding” you the state did not make the decision for you and your husband to have a child. The state is us, girl- us- ALL of us. IF we DECIDE to support OURSELVES with a better approach to healthcare . we WILL do it.
You don’t sound old enough to remember when healthcare issues were not about insurance but about the care itself… sure would like to see us get back there somehow.
By: Alaska Pi on October 27, 2008
at 11:19 PM
Ummm… just because they have universal healthcare does NOT mean they are socialists. Just because you wrap up your opinion in a pretty package doesn’t mean you have a clue as to what you are talking about. And YES, I have talked to MANY people whose governments have universal healthcare. Ever heard of Canada? There are many others who have very successful healthcare programs. and I have never heard one of them complain about it. In fact, they all feel sorry for those of us who live in countries that don’t have it. I have talked to many of them about their healtcare program, and it sounds damn good to me! Not to mention the fact that we ARE ALREADY paying for it. What do you think happens when someone with no insurance goes into the hospital for emergency treatment. They are not turned away. And what do you think happens then? That charge is eventually absorbed by hostpitals jacking up their rates, which in turn, causes insurance premiums to go up. So yes, we are paying for it already. Our insurance premium has doubled over the past 3 years. And I expect it to continue to rise. There are many other things that we are paying for, like welfare, and you can sit there complaining about it all day, but it’s not gonna change anytime soon. And if I’m gonna have to pay for something, I’d much rather it be healthcare than welfare. Because healthcare is something EVERYONE deserves, even YOU.
By: A girl on October 27, 2008
at 9:29 PM
A girl ..having a child is a huge responsibility that you and your husband have happily made. The state didn’t make it for you. It is your responsibility to cover your childs needs. We do not yet have cradle to grave health care provided by the state and I pray that we never will. It means that you and your husband will also be taxed to support all of the other folks who might just not want to work but to have babies and let you support them. Some other countries do have socialist medicine. Have you talked to any of them about how it is working?
By: ptfan1 on October 27, 2008
at 7:07 PM
Helen good day and thank you for this blog opportunity. And Anita thank you as well for reminding me of my manners:)
Michele my answers may be a little different than you expect but I believe in truly building consensus from the input of a diverse group of stakeholders when developing policy. We have not had that lately…..not for at lease 20 years. And the plans that we are all chirping about don’t have it either. The issues are extraordinarily complex, more so than ever before. So what we have from both parties are plans that are designed to appeal emotionally to us but that are not fully vetted by all the stakeholders. So neither plan is likely to succeed as it is currently proposed. SO we are kinda putting the cart before the horse. With both Healthcare and with Education. Iraq is a diferent story.
Remember when Hillary failed in her grand design to “reform” healthcare? One of the primary reasons of failure was she did not have the most important stakeholder at the table. Doctors. Same is true here. Ask your physician(s) how they feel about an Obama administration. I have asked mine. They are unanimously opposed to it (unfortunately I have had the opportunity to quiz quite a few). These guys/gals spent many years becoming licensed to treat you and I under a system that still rewards (although government is already eroding their ability for appropriate earnings). They are afraid of Obama more than McCain in my anecdotal research. I will incldue 2 links at the end of this blog that will support my thoughts. The first will be on Obama the second will be on Iraq.
As for free college access for everyone well that gets a lotta votes but I haven’t seen any endorsement from University Presidents and if you have ever wanted to study bureacracy that is the place to do it. So it appears to me to be a dream not a reality and the educators will not be cooperative in implimenting change on that broad a scale. They think in terms of semesters to have a meeting that the business community would have in weeks. Gonna take a while, change comes slowly and painfully in the halls of our university systems.
Energy wise McCain flipped on offshore drilling and led Floridas Governor to follow. Then Obama followed. Governor Palin has a history of trying to bring natural gas to the lower 48. T Boone Pickens opines that natural gas is the bridge to alternate fuel development which will take years of R & D, so increased drilling, natural gas and wind turbines might be a good next step for us there. McCain agrees.
Lastly Iraq. America always tires of an extended war and thats a good thing else we might grow to fond of it (RE Lee). This war is being under reported by the MSM in a very disingenuous way to damge Bush and the GOP. There are very important reasons to stay for a victory. One is to stabilize Iraq’s sects, two is to eradicate all Al Quada, there is to secure its borders from Iran which is a genuine threat to Iraq and the world. Also to just arbitraily withdraw would be to dishonor our dead and living soldiers.
I do not see Healtcare as a right.
I do not see College Education as a right.
I don’t think you can support freedom with a multinational agenda when the history of the UN is as weak as a tea party.
I think environmental concerns are valid and a necessary part of an energy plan but we have to act quickly to gain energy independence.
McCain supports all of that.
Now for the links, the first is a Dan Rather transcript of an interview with 3 extraordianry patriots.
The second is startling in its clarity about Obama.
It just made the 6:30 National news.
I just came across it today it surfaced Sunday Night.
http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=7425071346f84ad4813bd64530ce725f&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a7425071346f84ad4813bd64530ce725fPost%3a7e30b9ed-6c59-41fb-b2ea-9a3d4416bce9&sid=sitelife.tallahassee.com
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2008/10/october-surprise-1-obama-in-his-own.html
This second link demonstrates a clear ongoing strategy of Obamas, from 2001 to Joe the Plumber.
I know this is long but I had the time today. And probably won’t have again for a while.
By: ptfan1 on October 27, 2008
at 5:42 PM
How can anyone say that health care should be a “privilege” that you work for? That is a sick statement. So you’re telling me that if my husband and I lose our jobs, that my 2 year old should not have that “privilege” anymore? Perhaps I should have her open a lemonade stand so that she can earn the right to see her pediatrician from now on. You’re sick ptfan.
By: A girl on October 27, 2008
at 4:31 PM