Well, I thought it was a good debate. My hats off to Bob Shieffer… and my blouse too if he plays his cards right. (Just don’t tell my husband.) But who the hell is Joe the Plumber? Seriously. What the hell was that all about? Joe the Plumber? Joe Six Pack? The new McCain strategy seems to be banking on a lot of guys named Joe with a beer in one hand and a pipe wrench in the other. Is this a political campaign or a dating service for the Palin women?
And while I am talking about Governor Good Hair from the North I just want to say good for Sarah Palin that she has an interest in helping special needs children. They need all of our help and every child should come into this world being wanted and loved. Sarah you have my full support on this matter. It’s just too bad you also have to worry about a special needs Senator for a running mate.
John McCain thinks Americans are angry? Really? I think he needs to look beyond his rallies. Americans are not angry. Republicans are angry. Bush screwed ‘em over and now McCain is rubbing salt in the wound. It looks to me like The Straight Talk Express is stuck in traffic and its driver is experiencing a little road rage. The rest of us are hopeful and anxious, but certainly not angry. We want change and it is so close we can almost taste it. The next three weeks will be the longest of my 82 years.
Folks, I’m tired and I don’t have another fight in me. It’s now or never. So to all of you I say this: Give your money. Give your time. Give your voice. Get up. Get out and do something. Anything. If America takes a chance on Maverick the Clown and his side kick, Clarabell, we will find ourselves so far down the crapper even Joe the Plumber can’t reach us. Get out there and vote!
Thank you for stopping by. I mean it. Really.
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By: outcall escort Kiev on October 22, 2010
at 4:12 AM
Obama est fils d’un autre.
http://israelinsider.ning.com/profiles/blogs/is-obama-the-secret-son-of?id=2018399%3ABlogPost%3A12595&page=1#comments
By: angrynana on November 5, 2008
at 1:33 PM
phoenixofdiscordia-
Momentary lapses of civility and short term meltdowns are therapeutic if not indulged in too often… short rants are too.
Almost time for all of us to pick up and get back to work on this nation of ours… no matter which way it falls out…
Helen and Margaret, in her own quiet way, have been very kind to all of us here… thanks for having us all in ladies…
By: Alaska Pi on November 3, 2008
at 2:26 AM
Alaska Pi,
Well, thanks for the thanks, but I don’t think I really deserve them. I have yet to find a person who says “Oh really? Mr. Obama spent 10 years in the Illinois legislature? Well, that’s a bit of experience then.”
They usually respond. “Well, Sarah Palin was governor of Alaska (I’ll add here that Alaska has 2 or 3 MILLION less people than Chicago alone, not to mention the rest of Illinois, but I’m sure you, Alaska Pi, knew that one already), and she was mayor of Wasilla (like it was NYC, or something).”
Seems like everybody chooses to ignore this time, but got no problems trying to argue things like “Obama supports patial birth abortion (false, Obama voted against a ban that did not provide provisions for the health of the mother)”, “Obama voted for sex education for kindergardeners (true, but he voted for a bill that stated “age-appropriate sex education for grades K-12″ or something similar. Which is not comprehensive sex education, by any means.), and my personal favorite, “Obama voted against a law that would make doctors treat babies that lived through an abortion procedure (false, that law already existed in Illinois, and it is an unneccesary law anyway, as any doctor worth his salt would never dream of letting the baby die. They do take an oath to help all people, y’know.)….
Sorry, that I got off on a rant there. And sorry for hijacking this comment thread, Helen. I’ll try not do it too often.
By: phoenixofdiscordia on November 3, 2008
at 2:08 AM
phoenixofdiscordia-
It has been an endless source of amazement to me that Ms Palin’s political credentials have been so easily accepted by so many Outside. I realize there has been a shift, in recent weeks, of folks’ perceptions of her personally but the credential thing hangs around like a bad smell in an unvented outhouse.
Twenty months in state office does not begin to stack up to Mr Obama’s 10 years in Illinois. Also, Alaska had not YET fully vetted Ms Palin as governor when the McCain campaign swooped in and scooped her up. The “wait and see” attitude of those of us who did not vote for her contributed to the high favorables on that damnable 80% poll in July. Lacking a “cautiously optimistic ” or ” she hasn’t blown it yet” choice a lot of folks answered “somewhat favorable” to be polite. A favorable opinion poll of a governor , still in the honeymoon phase of her 1st ( and better be last ) term seems to be the heftiest credential Ms Palin can lay claim to. Her two successes – renegotiating oil royalties and the gasline- were with the full will of the people and more importantly, a bi-partisan majority in the legislature, without which she could NOT have prevailed over the old line conservatives in her own party.
I have tried not to despair for the last 8 years but folks’ willing acceptance of Ms Palin’s empty portfolio and purposeful ignorance Mr Obama’s state service has just about worn me out this go-around . I am glad folks like you have been out there stepping up to the plate to try to pass the word. Thank you.
By: Alaska Pi on November 3, 2008
at 1:39 AM
Alaska Pi,
Yeah, I’m really tired that people tend to ignore Obama’s 10 year career in the Illinois State legislature, and when I bring it up people tend to ignore it, even though I’ve been here the whole time. It’s like when I speak, I’m just another California wacko or New York liberal (nothing against the wackos and liberals from those fine states, of course).
I don’t think people really care that he was a politician before he was in the Senate. But Sarah Palin, the governor of Alaska, sure, her state office is recognized. Ugh.. I dunno.
And I agree, it seems for every rational person I meet, there’s three more with one of those conspiracy theories you’re talking about…. It’s really a shame.
Ms. Delgado,
Why? Why should I tell you, of all people, that if Obama doesn’t get around to acomplishing the things I personally want him to, I will vote for someone else? It seems quite asinine to me. Should I send letters to him every day, hoping that I get through, and accomplishes them? The more you speak, the more you remind me why people dislike us leftists in the first place.
Why does Obama not introduce his health care and taxes plan in the Senate now? Simply because of the way the Senate works. There is a procedure called a filibuster, in which the minority party may stall a vote until the Senate adjourns, at which time, the bill will die. To counteract this, a vote of 60 members can get around this, and force a vote. The Democrats do not have that type of majority, and therefore he couldn’t get his plans through, because the Republicans would filibuster any such bill that came down, out of sheer principle.
nathaliewithanh,
I think you’re analysis is spot on. Unfortunately, the people who lean too far to the left tend to overestimate their own numbers. Sadly, they are much like the far-right, in that regard. And, I think, you’re addition of “at the present time”, is quite apt. We need a little bit more time before the left-leaning policies really start to come through. Also, my French is not so great, what were you telling angrynana?
By: phoenixofdiscordia on November 3, 2008
at 12:09 AM
By: angrynana on November 2, 2008
at 7:29 PM
That first paragraph was so funny I had to stop reading to comment!
Joe the Beerbelly Plumber! That is some dangerous Plumber’s crack!
By: DogGirl on November 2, 2008
at 6:26 PM
angrynana: s’il-vous-plait, abstenez-vous de dire de telles aneries! Ou, au moins, si vous proferez des betises pareilles, vous devriez developer des arguments qui soutiennent votre point de vue.
Votre commentaire se resume a du vent, rien que du vent! Vous auriez mieux fait de vous abstenir. franchement!
Jennifer Delgado: I surmise you imagine the majority of the American people to be much further left than they actually are.
While I consider myself to be in that left minority, I understand that the future President of the United States will govern a country mostly center right.
If you ignore this reality and run on a radical left platform, there is no way you’d get elected in this country. Not at the present time anyway.
By: nathaliewithanh on November 2, 2008
at 4:11 PM
Monsieur Soetoro est le pire candidate pour le President Des Etats-Unis. Rechercheons ses fautes. non, il y a trop. Cherchez la verite.
By: angrynana on November 1, 2008
at 10:14 PM
Ms Delgado-
You have been asking these questions on here for days…
And ignoring the answers people give you for days.
You have challenged folks here to prove things to you…
When a few have tried , you have ignored them or accused them of attacking you.
I don’t understand what you have at stake, here, or in this election but please , get your feet underneath yourself, take a deep breath , and stop smacking people down when you invited comment.
You , and you alone , are responsible for the mark you make on the ballot you turn in. If you choose to vote differently than most of the people posting here, our world will not end.
I can also tell you, contrary to the crap circulating nationwide, America will not cease to exist no matter who wins this election.
For most of us posting here, it would be a terrible disappointment if Mr McCain were to win .
America is ALL of us though… it would not cease to exist.
By: Alaska Pi on October 31, 2008
at 11:14 PM
“One other thing, Obama has done far from nothing”
Please tell me, because I haven’t been able to find it, what has Obama done with the power he has now to justify him having more power?
If his healthcare plan/ tax plan is SO great, then why didn’t he introduce them now in the senate when the democrats have majority control?
How about we talk in four years?
You pick the 3 top things you want to see “Change” and if they don’t change despite an Obama presidency, then you agree to vote for someone who really would change things in 2012.
If Obama really is as amazing as everyone here keeps saying and does change the US for the better then I’ll vote for Obama.
By: jenniferdelgado on October 31, 2008
at 10:52 PM
phoenixofdiscordia-
Thank you for speaking up from Illinois- I’ve grown so weary of the secret-Obama-alien scenario …
It doesn’t seem to make a difference for a lot of folks to hear from his neighbors and constituents though…
Why do you think that is so?
I’m getting tired now, in this election cycle… I’m beginning to think people prefer wacko conspiracy theories and un-signalled turns against oncoming traffic as a form of NOT-keeping-their-eye-on-the-prize to the prosaic cares of everyday life .
By: Alaska Pi on October 31, 2008
at 9:31 PM
Obama who? he is an idiot. what is wrong with you people?
By: Tim on October 31, 2008
at 8:40 PM
Ms. Delgado, You seem to overestimate the number of people who are like me. I can already tell you are not like me, and there are even fewer people like you I’m afraid.
Obama was unknown when he started, but, that was two years ago. Tell me, how can McKinney get the type of national media coverage a major party candidate gets in that time in just 4 days?
Second, Obama was unknown to people who are not deeply interested in politics, because he was not a national figure yet. As an Illinoisan, I knew all about him for 10 years before he came onto the national scene.
One other thing, Obama has done far from nothing, and I can already see that trying to argue otherwise is no longer worth the time and effort I would need to get at.
So, Ms. Delgado, I am truly sorry that I could not convince you to vote for Obama. Every vote DOES count, and I would rather you vote in a manner that will be lasting.
Ah, c’est la vie. Despite that, I truly do wish you well, and I do hope you keep fighting the good fight. God bless you. And God bless Helen, for not being afraid to speak her mind, and God bless you all for supporting her.
By: phoenixofdiscordia on October 31, 2008
at 6:39 PM
Dear phoenixofdiscordia,
“What good will a vote for McKinney do, save get the third parties a little closer to the percent they need to be on a national ballot, and throw aaway a precious Obama vote? If I did so, and everyone else like me did so, then McCain would actually win”
No, actually McKinney would win if everyone “like you” voted for her. Not many people knew of Obama when he started.
And you know what? If you vote for Obama and McCain wins, then you’ve thrown your vote away anyway, right?
“if Obama’s in the White House and as popular as I think he’s going to be.”
Doesn’t this make you wonder why Obama is going to be so popular? What does he even really have to DO to be popular?
“Strategically, Obama will allow a younger, more liberal generation to reach voting age, and increase our numbers.”
I disagree, I think “strategically” all Obama will do is get young voters used to the idea that all a politician has to do to be good is do NOTHING. We are growing more and more content with politicians that don’t do anything for us.
By: jenniferdelgado on October 31, 2008
at 6:09 PM
Hmmm, Ms. Delgado, I believe I need to have at least a chance to respond to your state that referenced me.
Sorry if this came a bit too late. But, I am not willing to vote for a candidate who says that he or she is more liberal. I base my votes on theirs, if you will. And as for holding government accountable, I agree with you, but unfortunately, you must realize this, we can’t, in anyway, get a beter President at this moment than Senator Obama.
As for your choices of candidates, Nader, to me, is not a good person, though I did admire him not so long ago. HE is, to my mind, vain, ambitious, and interested in Nader first.
McKinney, yes, she does support single-payer healthcare. But, how many people know who she is? What chance does she have of making it? Not much, to be honest.
What good will a vote for McKinney do, save get the third parties a little closer to the percent they need to be on a national ballot, and throw aaway a precious Obama vote? If I did so, and everyone else like me did so, then McCain would actually win, and then we would be in a much worse situation than with a person who doesn’t go far enough, and have a person who is actually going in the OPPOSITE direction we want to go.
Again, you’re thinking tactics and not strategy. Sure, if I and everyone like me would vote for third-party candidates, then they would be national. BUT I can’t say that we should do that, because this is a tactical battle, too, and there aren’t enough of us to get a candidate in like that. Yet.
This is the thing, in 2012, I’ll probably show love to a third party candidate, if Obama’s in the White House and as popular as I think he’s going to be.
I am afraid you don’t seee the full problem we face, and I cannot explain clear enough evidently.
You questioned my reasoning when I said Obama is the first baby step to change. That is not true, because, George W. Bush was.
George W. Bush won 2 elections mainly for one reason, socially conservative Evangelicals. Conversely, thanks to George W. Bush, fiscal conservatives are losing support for the Evangelicals, which is going to cause them to break their unity and we will see much more in the way of social liberalism in the coming years.
But, that is only IF we can keep McCain out and more importantly, Palin from validating the Evangelical point of view by getting within 20 miles of the White House.
Strategically, Obama will allow a younger, more liberal generation to reach voting age, and increase our numbers. Tactically, unfortunately, that generation is still very impressionable, if McCain gets in, there will be a lot of mini-Palins out there.
So, you see, with McCain Palin we lose. With McCain-Romney, we would have been less likely to be in such dire straits if Obama lost to them, but still, we’d be in trouble for awhile, as a country, not as liberals.
What we are seeing is a historic turning point, because the era of Reagan has finally ended. It is from this point that we must make a decision. Do we want to usher in the budding age of American Liberalism, or do we want to usher in the death of the U.S. Constitution and the rise of Jesusland? And I am afraid that title is false, because Jesus was the biggest liberal of all.
By: phoenixofdiscordia on October 31, 2008
at 5:51 PM
Happy Halloween!!! Love you!!
By: StarryNight on October 31, 2008
at 5:03 PM
I hope all of you pathetic people who sit on your ass’s will feel the same way when and if your idol gets to the White House. I hope you feel the same way when he appoints some of his terrorist friends to great positions. This guy is a fake and so is his running mate. Biden said in Oct. in the debate with Palin that he was against gay marriage. Then on the Ellen Degieres show he said he was for it.
I could go on and on but you people on this blog are such idiots you would not believe me anyway.
By: Bob on October 31, 2008
at 4:14 PM
I believe you mean the “ad hominem”. Since you dabble in latin let me answer via one of my favorite quotes from Virgil’s Aeneid…”o socii, neque enim ignari sumus ante malorum. o passi graviora, dabit deus his quoque finem”. I just love that speech. It doesn’t really answer your question, but it speaks to where we are right now in this campaign. As I said before, Obama is a mere mortal. I am not an idolater and I can’t predict the future, so something may come up that will make me less content with him as a person. But I think he has the intellect, the disposition and the ideas to govern well. Salve, Jennifer!
By: Marina on October 29, 2008
at 11:32 PM
I was waiting for the ad homeniem. Thanks Marina. I suppose it is ridiculous of me to question what most everyone else is ready to believe. Let me ask you one last question, is there anything Obama can do that would make you discontented with Obama?
By: jenniferdelgado on October 28, 2008
at 10:35 PM
Ah, Jennifer. There is no such thing as perfect, there is no utopia. The world is a complicated place and you have to use your best judgment to navigate your way through it. Argument for the sake of argument really has no purpose, unless, of course, you are simply enchanted with the sound of your own voice. Good luck on your quest for the Holy Grail…I’m content with the mere mortal Obama.
By: Marina on October 24, 2008
at 9:53 PM
At least Obama *has* a plan to get out of Iraq.
McCain would be more than happy to stay there his full term (saw an article that he’s now predicting “war over by 2013″) or more (100 years would be “fine with me”).
By: Michele on October 24, 2008
at 10:03 AM
“OK well…I’ll be voting AGAINST the candidate most likely to ’stay the course.’ ”
By voting FOR a candidate who will ‘stay the course’ for at least another 16 months after he is elected?
By: jenniferdelgado on October 24, 2008
at 8:52 AM
quote:
“I can’t vote for Obama, because he just really isn’t a change of anything.”
OK well…I’ll be voting AGAINST the candidate most likely to ‘stay the course.’
By: rudi on October 23, 2008
at 1:41 AM
Thanks for the responses, it’s forced me to do more research into these issues!
Marina said “The present system is an abomination, and Obama is the only candidate that seems willing to take on the health insurance industry.”
This depends on how you define candidate. I went and looked at websites for Nader and McKinney(the green party candidate) and they both support a single-payer health care system which would provide universal health care. I agree with you that Obama is not going far enough, but there are candidates who would do more than he would. If this issue is really important to you, as it is to me, then why not find a candidate who would really support it?
Marina said “Getting out of Iraq in 16 months is ambitious. It won’t be easy, but I support Obama’s plan. I really don’t think it’s feasible to get out any faster.”
Why? What is Obama waiting for to get out of Iraq? Is he waiting for some kind of stability? What is REALLY going to change in 16 months?
Marina said “As for changing the entire situation in the middle east, we really won’t have any progress until we honestly address the Israeli/Palestinian issue, which is what fires up all these militant groups.”
If the Israeli/Palistine issue is what is the source of the trouble, then why doensn’t Obama support a two-state solution? Why is he willing to stick by Israel no matter what they do? How is this not further radicalizing people in this area?
Finally I just want to bring up one more point. Here is what Marina and phoenixofdiscordia said:
Marina said “The fact that he is liberal. It predisposes him to allow more individual freedom. Like Roe v Wade, like gay marriage eventually…”
phoenixofdiscordia said “We can’t win in the long-term by radically making changes at a tactical level. Change is slow in coming, and in order to achieve viable, lasting results, people must first become acclimated to the idea. To do so, our first goal is to get people used to liberal thinking, a baby step at a time. Barackk Obama is the first baby step. If all goes well, in 8 years, we’ll be voting for a more central Republican, and a bit further left of a Democrat. By then, I hope people have grown a great deal in the ways of tolerance.”
I don’t understand this reasoning. If “being liberal” were enough to change the country for the future, then why didn’t having Clinton in the White House make America more liberal even after he left office?
Obama is against gay marriage, he supported FISA (despite missing many other bills, he made it in to vote for this one?), he won’t work to provide universal health care, he won’t pull us out of Iraq for more than a year after he is elected, he changed his mind on supporting Palistine and he also didn’t accept public financing. So HOW is Obama liberal except by comparision to McCain? If we vote for him, without him having to promise what we want, then we won’t ever get real change. Which is what I think you were trying to say here:
” Are we going to hold our Representatives and Senators to task when it comes to health care reform, military actions, civil rights? In short are we ready to become active participants in the governing of this country, or remain passive observers?”
I can’t vote for Obama, because he just really isn’t a change of anything. He doesn’t have to change anything. People like you and pheonixofdiscordia are willing to vote for him even if he doesn’t do anything just because he claims to be more liberal!
So what are you going to do if he doesn’t change America? Are you going to remain a passive observer waiting to vote for the next “liberal” candidate who won’t actually change a thing?
Or are you going to demand more from your candidates than just not being as bad as the other guy?
By: jenniferdelgado on October 22, 2008
at 11:11 PM
Helen Rocks!! When will you be posting more?
By: Andie on October 22, 2008
at 8:59 AM
Marina, thank you for organizing your thoughts so well. It is much easier to read than what I have to say, and well, far more coherent. In that note, I agree with a majority of what you had to say. Thanks for trying to help educate people about Senator Obama’s plans.
I think we are on the right track, friends. Let’s not forget why we’re having this discussion though. We all must work together, for our sakes as well as those of our descendants. A better today for the best tomorrow, ladies and gentlemen. That is what we are fighting for.
By: phoenixofdiscordia on October 21, 2008
at 3:04 PM
Helen, your wit is refreshing, your position defensible, your purpose admirable! I could not read all the comments today but I would like to add that it is my understanding that Palin has both a downs child and an autistic child. As we get closer to election day, blog away and make those contacts that will bring us closer to success.
By: Mariman on October 21, 2008
at 1:13 PM
Sorry! I have to amend my first point…I meant to say that 95% of us would either pay no more in taxes or receive a tax cut….alas my brain works faster than I can type…
By: Marina on October 21, 2008
at 12:33 PM